Liberals massively down in polls despite what anti-Poilievre pollster claims (EKOS response)
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Summary
ECOS and Frank Graves have been putting out polling results that give a false impression that the Liberals are on track to win the next election. In fact, there's a massive lead for the Conservatives in the polls, and a massive gap between them and the Liberals in other polls. In this episode, I discuss why this is not the case, and why the Liberals have no chance of winning in 2020.
Transcript
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Hey guys, Wyatt Claypool here, and today we're going to be talking about polling,
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specifically why the Liberal Party of Canada has no chance of winning the next federal election.
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I'm doing this because ECOS and Frank Graves have been putting out absolutely ridiculous polling
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results that are giving a lot of liberals online this false impression that they're having a big
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comeback. Frank Graves is a propaganda pollster at this point. Maybe he had integrity several years
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ago and he used to actually try and have good results, but now because of his steaming hatred
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for Pierre Polyev, he is just putting out results that try and build Liberal Party momentum.
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This is an actual tweet by Frank Graves. He then deleted it a bit later because of course he
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deleted it. He said, a real conservative option is a healthy counterbalance in a healthy democracy.
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Here Polyev is an acolyte of authoritarian populism. This is never healthy. You are on notice.
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Going to make sure you are never going to lead my country. I don't make idle threats.
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That is from a Canadian pollster. Now do you think we should take any of his polling results seriously?
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Well maybe if the work is done right, but as I am going to get into, ECOS is not putting out good
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work anymore. In fact, they haven't been putting out good poll results probably for about four or five
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years at this point because he has such a liberal bias in his own head. Even if he was trying to be
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accurate before, his liberal bias seems to have seeped into who he ends up polling and who he ends up
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assuming will show up and vote on election day. But before I get into ECOS's numbers and Frank Graves,
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I want to talk about numbers from other pollsters. But before I do that, guys, reminder, like this
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video, subscribe to the channel. I'm trying to get to 100,000 subscribers by mid-December. So share this
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with other people if you like it and leave a comment on whatever you think about. But it does help the
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video in the algorithm and I do like scrolling through your comments, replying to some of you,
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and reacting to some of it. But here is the trend line since 2014 from Nanos. Nanos is a pollster I'm
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not in love with. I don't hate it. They're just a decent pollster. This right here is the current lead
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that they have in their latest poll for the conservatives. They have the conservatives at
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45.2, the liberals at 20.8, the NDP at 18.7, blocks 7.7, you know, greens 5.3, PPC 1.9,
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This, to put it lightly, is a massive lead for the conservatives. And now when I'm going to get
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into this later that you're supposed to believe that the liberals are going to be able to surpass
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the conservatives or at least catch up to them, remember that both in Nanos' polling data as well
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as all the other non-ECOS pollsters, this is what the gap looks like. It is a 25, nearly 25-point gap.
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I am sorry, where else in the polling has there ever been a gap overcome that that was that big?
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Ignoring this area over here, because this is when Justin Trudeau first got into office,
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and this is his honeymoon period. Yes, over here we have this deep trough. This is when Aaron O'Toole
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was breaking tons and tons of promises to the conservative base and fell all the way down to
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about 24% in the polls. But this is 24 compared to the liberals at 38, 37, 39. This is not that big
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of a deal. And then the later the conservatives caught back up and there was a bit of a car crash
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election like we had also in 2019, where because the conservatives were kind of being incompetent,
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really were not playing to their base, just running an apathetic campaign and Trudeau's unpopular.
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Both parties basically finished in a tie, which slightly advantaged the liberals in seats.
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But this, when we, this is like a, you know, 15-point gap. This is a 24.6% gap. This is not something
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that you come back from. And if we go into other data from Nano, so I'm just going to take this off
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screen for a second. The thing is that it's not just, you could say, well, people have come back
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by bigger degrees in the past. Sure, maybe. But the problem is right now that all the issues are
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going for the conservatives. Polyev's popular. For the liberals to come back, not only would they
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need a star candidate as their new prime minister, a serial candidate, their new leader, which is not
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Mark Carney. It's not Chrystia Freeland. It's basically none of those people. They will have to. So they
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would have to have a star candidate and Polyev would somehow have to start becoming less popular
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because look at Nanos' preferred prime minister polling over time as well. This was starting back
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in January of 2024, which is a fair timeline considering not a lot of people knew who Polyev was
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until later 2023. Right now, Polyev is sitting at a 39.7 preferred prime minister rating. 39.7% of
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Canadians prefer him to be prime minister. The second place right now, which is understandable
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because Justin Trudeau announced that he's leaving, is at 19.9% is unsure in second place. Third place
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is actually NDP and Jagme same with 14.8% and Trudeau is at 14%. Do you really think once Mark Carney
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or Chrystia Freeland or, I don't know, Frank Bayless or this new Ruby lady who's trying to run,
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when they're the new leader of the Liberal Party, do you suspect that suddenly a bunch of Canadians
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are going to be like, oh, I like them? That's not how public opinion works. And I've said this in
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other videos. I've said it on X. You guys should go follow me on X. That's linked in the pinned comments
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if you want to go and follow my X account. But I've said this, and it's true, that when you see a major
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shift in polling, there has to be an underlying political reason for why. Prime Minister Justin
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Trudeau stepped down or is saying he's going to step down as prime minister in March. And so, yes,
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that is a big shock in Canadian politics, but that doesn't change the Liberal brand. That doesn't
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change the issues of the election. In fact, that basically does absolutely nothing for the Liberals.
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Let's go up and just look at the top issues that people are thinking about in this next election.
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This is comparing December to January, so it's only a month difference. And you'll notice the main
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difference between the two bars in this chart is just that change in prime minister is up heavily
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and change in government is up quite a bit. But everything else is kind of fluctuating a little
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bit here and there. You know, obviously, some immigration numbers probably went towards change
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prime minister. There's a big health care crisis recently in British Columbia. So that one's up
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probably disproportionately in BC. But if you look at the top issues, you have jobs and economy,
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inflation, health care, housing costs, environment. Maybe you could say health care is a good liberal
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issue. Maybe you could say environment is a good liberal issue. But the top three issues, the top two
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issues are really big conservative issues. And health care, I would say, is a toss up at this point.
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Look at this, too. These are I'm going to go find this one. So yeah, this is just since 2024. These are
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the trend lines and different issues that people have been caring about that Nanos has been pulling.
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So the blue line here is jobs and economy. Green line is inflation. Red is health care. And then you have
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some of these other ones like environment and whatnot. Look at environment right here. Environment has fallen all
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the way from low teens to like 5.3%. In fact, if I go up here, you'll see that at one point, environment
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was in the 20s. Or yeah, it was like 27%. It was technically the top issue at some point. That's
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absolutely insane. The liberals have lost one of their big issues. All of the issues are currently
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conservative issues. I want to see if I can quickly bring up an abacus data poll here because they do a
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good government approval rating. I might have to bring up their last one because I don't think
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they pulled government approval this last time. But their government approval right now in the
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liberal party or in the liberal government is abysmal. It's as bad as Trudeau's approval rating. And you
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know that's literally scraping along 21%. I might have to go back to the beginning of the month before
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Trudeau stepped down to get the good data here. Yes, here we go. Government approval rating. And
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someone could argue, well, it'll change when Justin Trudeau is out of office and it's Mark Carney or
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Chrystia Freeland leading the government. Again, that's not how polling works. Even Mark Carney is
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perceived as being a Trudeau-like person. This was data collected like the second after Trudeau stepped
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down or I even believe the day before or so. Government's approval rating as disapproval is
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at 63%. 63% of Canadians think the government is doing a bad job. Who thinks that they're doing a
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good job? 21%. Less than a quarter. That is basically the people willing to vote liberal are the people
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who approve of the government. Every other person that the liberals gain, they will have to first
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basically assure them that they are different and they will have to scratch and claw to get every
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half a percent that they increase onto their approval rating as a government. And guess what? Their
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bandwidth is at this point. Once the new leader comes in, in probably early March, they will have
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maybe as little as two weeks. Maybe they have until October. Let's just give them to October
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How many people are going to even be paying attention to what the liberals are doing? Let's
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say somehow they're doing good things. Still doesn't matter. They have just become rusty. And
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the thing is, by getting rid of Trudeau, a lot of the Trudeau cheerleaders and loyalists are not going
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to show up. That's not a massive portion of the population, just as cheerleaders for any leader
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don't tend to be like as overwhelming portion of Canadians. But that's going to be one or two
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percent of Canadians who are just probably not going to show up because they were ride or die
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Trudeau people. And once it's Carney or Freeland, they can't really bring themselves to care anymore
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because they were, you know, Trudeau-anon people. They were Trudeau can do no wrong. And if Trudeau is
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gone, well, voting for another liberal leader is basically saying, well, Trudeau did suck. At least
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we have Mark Carney now. They won't do it. People are very funny that way. But now I want to get into
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the ECOS polling because this stuff is what is truly embarrassing. So first, I just want to go
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to some of the reactions on social media because I find some of the stuff just funny. All of the
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liberals who are thinking that this is going to be like a big comeback now for the liberals. And look
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this trend line. This trend line right here I'm about to bring up on screen really demonstrates how
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wonky ECOS is. This is what ECOS is showing. This massive bump up for the liberals right as they
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need it when the liberal leadership race is kicking off and they need some artificial excitement.
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That is not happening. But you get people like this Clay Thomas guy, Thompson guy saying, well,
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when Mark Carney becomes leader of the liberal party, it's all over for Pierre and he knows it.
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There's a light at the end of the tunnel. My goodness. Well, what is the darkness
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and being implied as the liberal government? Like what's the darkness here that we're in the
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tunnel for? But anyways, here's the Jean-Philippe Fournier guy. I don't even know who he is.
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But he says, man, I want whatever this guy is smoking. And he is reacting to Frank Graves saying,
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quick update. The margin between the Conservative Party of Canada and the Liberal Party of Canada
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has now shrunk to a barely significant 5% in our most recent four day roll up. And that means
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the last four days of polling, the average between the parties has been 5%. He says,
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I have rarely seen such straight line decline. The NDP are now at 13%. This is a profoundly different
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voting voter landscape than even a month ago. And it's not real. We're going to get into some of
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these numbers more in detail. But these are some of the underlying numbers in his recent poll claiming
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that the Conservatives are only ahead by 7 to 9 points. Look at this. Atlantic Canada. PPC is at 11.7%.
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Green Party is at 18.2%. What? The Green Party is in fact closer to the Conservatives than they are
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than like the NDP. That's insane. The Liberals are ahead in Atlantic Canada. In British Columbia,
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somehow the Conservatives are at 50%, which seems weird if they're that far behind or they're only
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at 27 in Atlantic Canada. In Ontario, the Liberals and Conservatives are neck and neck. In Quebec,
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the Liberals are back up to a very tight second place next to the block. And in other provinces,
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the Liberals are just like basically either ahead or very close to where the Conservatives are. You
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have British Columbia. Other than British Columbia, all the other places have the NDP and Liberals doing
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way better than they usually are. It's actually kind of like remarkable. Liberals at 26.3 in Alberta
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doesn't sound like a lot. That's a crazy result for the Liberals these days who are getting used to
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like 12%, 13% results in Alberta. And it makes sense. Think about it. Alberta is the provincial
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province of provincial UCP and provincial NDP. There is no Alberta Liberal Party anymore. So do you
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think that the Liberals are going to be punching over a quarter in that province while the NDP trails
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them? The Liberals have two seats. Granted, the NDP also only have two seats. But George Chahal's
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riding in Calgary is a complete write-off at this point. Probably same with Randy Boissoneau. The only
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solid ridings that could possibly be won by a non-conservative party are Blake Desjardins riding
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in wherever that was. Which one is that? It doesn't really matter. But his riding in Edmonton and then
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Edmonton Strathcona with Heather McPherson. Those are the only two people who can possibly win seats in
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this province who are not Conservatives right now. Want to get to another reaction here? I'm going to
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jump over to my friend Chris from the Great Canadian Bagel podcast in a bit. But you have
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these other people. This unbranded guy who's a big liberal pusher on social media saying,
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buckle up, Polyev. You're in for a rough ride. Reacting to Frank Graves saying that, you know,
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they're catching up. The Liberals are on a straight line path back into government. And by the way,
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Frank Graves' numbers do indeed imply that the Conservatives would only win a tiny minority
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government. And in fact, the Liberals would probably still be in power with the help of a
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coalition government between the NDP and like the bloc. Anyways, but this is what Chris, the Great
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Canadian Bagel said. He said, the last ECOS poll is blatantly a push poll, manipulated to change
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voters' opinions. ECOS overweighted university-educated voters by 30% to 55% of the electorate from the
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Stats Canada report value of 26%. Because there's not actually as many people as you would assume
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that have university degrees who then vote. And I'm going to get into that in just a second here,
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but I'm just going to take a break to pull up ECOS's actual charts so I can zoom in.
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Okay, I'm back. And I have the ECOS numbers right here for you to look at in their PDF.
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The funny thing is that when you look at the ECOS numbers, and I'll bring that up later,
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when you look up the ECOS numbers that have been treated by Frank Graves, and then you look at his
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actual data tables, they make no sense. Because what you have to understand to understand how
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pollsters work, you have to notice the difference between total and weighted total. The difference
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between a total and a weighted total, total is just all the people that you polled. All the people
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that you polled, what are the numbers in each of the regions, and that's it. Weighted is the pollster
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now making assumptions. It's not bad for the pollster to make assumptions. If you do a poll,
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and like 60% of the people who answered your poll only have a high school diploma, and that's it,
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that's probably not what the electorate in the next election is going to look like.
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The electorate is naturally pretty diverse, you're not only going to get one type of person voting.
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So if you do a poll, and you don't have a lot of rural people voting in your poll, and that result
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is like really weak, well, the liberals look like they could technically win in Alberta,
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because you only pull people in downtown Calgary and downtown Edmonton. So when you get a wonky result,
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either you have to weight that total, or you go out and get more surveys. I naturally tend to like
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just getting more surveys and more data, because it gives you more to work with, rather than taking a
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small amount of voters that are only 15 of them, and you assume that you should have probably gotten
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26, and then just inflating the result from that sub-demographic.
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Sorry if I'm getting kind of technical and specific here, but here's the problem with Frank Graves.
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He weights his polls, everyone weights their polls, that's totally fine.
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Now, the problem is, look at the normal totals here, in terms of what he got in each of these
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provinces. One, it already shows he has a really bad online and phone sample. He is not getting the
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normal voter in his current samples. Look here, look at the People's Party of Canada, like I mentioned
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before, in Atlantic Canada, getting 18.2% of the vote, or the Green Party getting 18.2%,
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and the PPC getting 11.7%. Not a chance they're doing that. Look, People's Party is getting 17.2%
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in Manitoba, 5.9% in Saskatchewan. That doesn't even make sense. If the People's Party is going to
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get a heavy amount of the vote somewhere, it's more likely to be Saskatchewan than Manitoba. I know
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Portage Lisgar is in Manitoba, but rural Saskatchewan is going to have far more average PPC voters
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than the average Manitoba riding, considering that Winnipeg makes up so much of the politics in that
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province, and they're very left. But yeah, overall, this poll doesn't make sense. 7.8% for the Green
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Party in Manitoba. How? Look, Ontario, the Green Party gets 2.3%. In BC, in the territories, they get
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2.3%. Somehow, the Green Party in this poll is getting 18.2% in Atlanta, Canada, a place where
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they don't have a seat, but they're only getting 2.3% in BC and Ontario where they do have seats.
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Make it make sense, people. It doesn't. It shows that he doesn't have enough surveys from these
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places. He only has 54 respondents from Atlanta, Canada, only 24 from Manitoba, and then he's just
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not going to... He's just going to be willfully stupid about his poll and think, well, no, that's
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just a legitimate thing. We called up five people, and one of them was a PPC person. Ergo, 20% of the
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electorate is PPC. It's not. You didn't poll right. You are oversampling in other provinces, or you don't
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have enough sample in some of these places to make good conclusions. 54 is not how you make conclusions.
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And then the waiting, this is really where the waiting gets thrown off, and this is what Chris
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mentioned. So this is who he ended up polling. He had 491 people who had university educations who
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were polled, college 275, and high school 155. The problem here is that the amount of people who
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are going to vote who have university educations is going to be a little bit under half. Frank Graves
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cranks it up to 55%, and then he cranks down people with trade degrees, college degrees, and high
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school diplomas. He cranks those down and cranks up the amount of metropolitan voters voting in the
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election. That is not how you run a poll. You don't. Basically, just this is what Frank Graves is doing
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to create what I would consider to be, and what Chris is saying, is a push poll. It's a poll to try and
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jar the electorate into thinking that that's realistic, and thinking, well, maybe I should
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be voting liberal because other people are. This doesn't usually work. I will give you. That's the
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one good thing, is that it's hard for pollsters to really manipulate the electorate. But I have no
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doubt that this is trying to build up motivation within the liberal base, get them donating more,
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trying to make it seem like there's momentum behind the liberals, so you should jump back on the
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bandwagon. It's entirely wrong. This is just bad data, and he is using bad data to come to conclusions
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that he cannot come to. Even then, I would actually say he's under-polling young people, and then he
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cranks it up. Look at this. Under 35. He only got 94 surveys. And instead of saying, hey, let's go and
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get more young people to take the poll. No, he's going to crank that up to 215. That's not how you run a
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poll. That's not what you do. He has 65-plus voters, 362, and then he cranks them way down.
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What? He's basically making it a perfect quartering of the thing. There's a quarter of the voters are
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under 35, a quarter of the voters are 35 to 49, a quarter of the voters are 50 to 64, and a quarter of
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the voters are 65-plus. That is not an electorate that exists in Canada. But you'll notice that the
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new Democratic Party gets, or that the liberals end up benefiting quite a bit from the way he ends
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up re-weighting all this stuff. Anyways, it's just ridiculous. And the thing is, again, the man's
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polling has been off in other elections. In 2021, Frank Graves was saying the entire time that the
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PPC was at 10 percent, the PPC was at 12 percent, 11.8, 9.9. They got half of that. He has a corrupted
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sample and he doesn't give a crap. He doesn't care because he needs Polyev to have a narrative against
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him in the liberal media that he's trailing off. People don't like him. This is the type of stuff
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that fuels outlets like CultMTL, who every single time there is a stat they can twist to make it an
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anti-Polyev stat. They will do it even if it's from a poll where the other leaders had worse stats than
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Polyev by far. This is literal propaganda. This is not how real polling works. This is what like
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American pollsters like Ann Seltzer were doing at the end of the 2024 federal election or the
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presidential election where she plops out a poll. She's supposedly the best pollster in Iowa and maybe
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at one point she definitely was. But two days or a day before the presidential election, she puts out
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an Iowa poll saying Harris plus eight. Harris lost Iowa by like 12 to 18 points. I think it actually
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was 20. No. Frank Graves can say, oh, you can disagree with the numbers, but the numbers are the
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numbers. The numbers don't make sense. Do you know what this poll would result in? I need to bring
00:24:02.060
this up on screen, too. This makes less sense than anything I've seen in my entire life. This poll
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would result in, if I can bring up Sherea Teest's numbers, who runs PolyWave. And Poly, by the way,
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PolyWave and Sherea Teest have now dropped Ecos because their polling is so crap that they don't want
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to mix it into their other polling stats. This poll is so stupid that when it's added into Sherea Teest's
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model, because these polling model guys will take the poll. They'll stick it into their model
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with some of their other data that they include. And Sherea Teest, with Frank Graves' Ecos poll,
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gets the Conservatives only at 149 seats, Liberals 140, Block 34, NDP 11, Greens 7, and PPC 2.
00:24:48.620
No. And guess what? All the Green seats are now in Atlantic Canada. They lose all of their...
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Elizabeth May somehow loses. But the Greens have a big surge on the Maritimes.
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Around Winnipeg, in Portage Lisgar and another riding, the PPC pick up seats. The Greens barely
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hold on to their seat in Ontario. And then the Liberals basically recapture all of Toronto,
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all of Montreal. And then they even expand into places that they didn't have seats in before.
00:25:22.080
Look at Calgary! Look at it! They win Centre. They win McKnight. They win Skyview. George Chahal,
00:25:30.640
the Porch Pirates, keeps his seat. This isn't real. This is fantasy numbers. This is not how politics works.
00:25:38.980
This is not how public opinion works. Public opinion does not change from 25% in an Ecos poll
00:25:46.300
in December 18th to now December 22nd. The Liberals are only down 7 or 9. You don't go from 25 to 9
00:25:56.600
in a month and two days. I'm sorry. That's just not how it works. But yeah, so this has driven me up the
00:26:05.060
wall. I hate when people then promote these numbers as if they're real. It's so obvious you're
00:26:11.300
just pushing the agenda if you think these numbers are real. Just as if you were a PPC guy thinking
00:26:16.640
you are at 12% in 2021. You are also delusional. That's not what you even experience out in the
00:26:22.640
public. Is there some big Mark Carney mentum that I haven't been picking up on? The guy couldn't raise
00:26:28.220
more than $125,000 in the first day of his campaign. And that's pathetic because he's been
00:26:33.520
running a shadow campaign for months. And in a day where he was probably blitzing all of his donors,
00:26:38.940
big donor buddies with emails, text messages, phone calls, doing Jon Stewart's show, doing a big
00:26:44.420
announcement, he could only bring in $125,000. Does this tell you that people are excited? No. The contrary
00:26:51.940
tells me that they don't give a crap anymore. So anyways, that's it for me today, guys. Watch out
00:27:00.300
with what polls you look at. Most of the pollsters are great. But if the polls do not match up with
00:27:05.760
reality, not just how you feel, but with what other pollsters say, what you experience in real life,
00:27:11.240
what you experience on social media, what you experience in the culture, the fact that Pure
00:27:17.100
Polyev came out and he just said, I'm not aware that there's any other gender than men or women.
00:27:21.020
That is a turning point in the culture that the conservative leader would say something that
00:27:24.820
Aaron O'Toole would never say. Do you know why he said that? Because conservatism is currently on the
00:27:29.840
ascent. It's not because Mark Carney's super popular that he's saying stuff like that. It's because
00:27:35.040
conservatism is super popular right now. So anyways, like the video, guys, subscribe to the
00:27:42.580
channel, leave a comment, and I'll see you guys later.