Julian Newman, a former NDP staffer joins the show to talk about why Jagmeet Singh is still the leader of the federal NDP and why the party hasn't called an election in six months. He also talks about why he thinks it's a good idea for the party to go to the polls in a general election.
00:00:00.000Hello, everyone. Welcome back to the Wyatt Claypool Show.
00:00:04.360With so much attention on Prime Minister Justin Trudeau announcing that he intends to resign sometime in March after the Liberal Party elects a new leader,
00:00:13.400I think there has been one political figure that has escaped a lot of the attention, and that is federal NDP leader Jagmeet Singh.
00:00:21.460Why are we even at this point? Why is the Liberal government still even around when there has been enough power in the opposition in order to get rid of them?
00:00:32.020Jagmeet Singh now is saying that the Liberals don't deserve to be re-elected and they're not competent and that Justin Trudeau is not fit to be Prime Minister.
00:00:41.040But when did this all change? More of this needs to be asked.
00:00:44.460And to answer some of these questions, hopefully, I am bringing in a former NDP staffer, Julian Newman, to give us his insights.
00:00:53.380Julian, you know some people inside the NDP still, and you have been doing a little bit of poking around to see what's going on.
00:01:00.600And I'd love to hear your perspective on what's going on with Jagmeet Singh. Why is he even still the NDP leader?
00:01:09.280Yeah, so with all of this, with all the momentum, I guess, now to get rid of Trudeau to call an election, where was the NDP even six months ago?
00:01:21.060And in your perspective, from your perspective, has anything even changed that makes it okay now to call for an election, but not okay six months ago?
00:01:30.120Well, I'll start just by telling you, I got together with a group of some of the most prominent New Democrats, I mean, former SAFers, former members of Parliament, and we were trying to pressure the current alleged leader of the party to trigger an election in December.
00:01:50.160And specifically, because we were afraid Donald Trump would come and do exactly what is happening right now.
00:01:59.620And, you know, more of the point, we got 1000 NDP members and voters to sign a petition explicitly saying this, it was covered in the Toronto Sun, saying, hey, Jagmeet, you should be afraid of Trump more than Poitier.
00:02:18.860And, I mean, obviously, they didn't choose to go down the path that we wanted, which was to trigger an election when we had the opportunity.
00:02:26.960And, I mean, I mean, who knows what's going to happen now?
00:02:33.840And I, as a conservative, who obviously I don't vote NDP, I've never voted NDP, I've looked at the situation just from the perspective of, if I was a political advisor, what would I be telling Jagmeet Singh to do?
00:02:46.720Even if in real life, I wouldn't want that job, if I was, what would I do?
00:02:51.520I often do that on my show, what would I be telling Trudeau to do?
00:02:55.100What would I be telling Polyev or Singh to do?
00:02:57.480If I was an advisor to the NDP right now, I'd be saying that if you want any credibility going into the next election, you can't be seen as the guy who finally, when everyone is yelling at you to get rid of Trudeau, you finally do it.
00:03:10.300Because it's not, he doesn't have a hero narrative at all going into this next election.
00:03:14.740He, if anything, has come off like Justin Trudeau's executive assistant, who's trying to prevent the hordes from coming in and removing Trudeau, but then finally giving way and pretending like that is him taking a principled stance.
00:03:30.780I guess, what has been the feeling inside the party with many NDP members?
00:03:35.600Because you get the feeling that maybe enough people in the NDP don't want Polyev to become the prime minister, they're okay with Trudeau, or is it really the opposite where people are like, but at this point, Trudeau's doing such a bad job, you can't just keep kicking the election down the road.
00:03:51.140Yes, I think there's a distinction be made between the like 12 people who are NDP members of parliament now.
00:04:01.320You know, when I worked there, we had 59 members of parliament in Quebec only.
00:04:05.760Now there are, you know, a handful of folks.
00:04:08.360Anyway, so the distinction be made between, you know, the, you know, handful of people sitting around and, you know, taking their government salaries in Ottawa, and the NDP members and the NDP voters.
00:04:19.880So, you know, if you work in Ottawa and you're a new Democrat, for some reason, they're completely obsessed with, you know, hating Polyev.
00:04:31.720Like, this is their thing. Polyev is the new Trump. Polyev, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
00:04:39.360The NDP members think, hey, what's the best thing for Canada?
00:04:43.220How can we make the lives of Canadians better?
00:04:45.560And it's just, it's a totally different starting point.
00:04:50.720So if you try to have a conversation with NDP members, which we did, they say like, oh, yeah, it's really a problem that Donald Trump is threatening a trade war.
00:05:12.840That's what Charlie Angus's statement was the other day, that he even after Singh said, at this point, we are going to vote no confidence in the liberal government.
00:05:22.320Charlie Angus comes out and says, well, as unfit as Justin Trudeau is for office, Pierre Polyev would be worse.
00:05:28.880And it's like that from a political perspective.
00:05:31.440If I was, again, an advisor, I'd like smack that guy.
00:05:36.540When everyone knows that the source of their problems right now is Justin Trudeau and the liberal government, they don't want to hear a hypothetical about how you have seen into the future and that this guy's plans are worse.
00:05:49.320Especially now that the NDP has, in fact, actually sided with the conservatives on certain issues of government corruption or against the consumer carbon tax.
00:05:59.760You would think that this would be the perfect moment to say that, yes, the conservatives might, you don't even have to say the conservatives are more likely to win.
00:06:06.880But you can just say that right now the problems are such that the only responsible thing to do is remove them.
00:06:11.500But they're trying to play this 3D chess and they don't seem capable of it right now.
00:06:15.800I want to back up for a second and just talk about Singh before the last few months when it's become clear that he should have been taking action.
00:06:26.460But how has he survived two elections where the NDP have either lost seats or barely gained any back like they did in 2021?
00:06:35.440Because we saw Thomas Mulcair in 2015 get removed as the leader or step down.
00:06:41.500Despite the fact that they still had a substantial amount of support in that 2015 election after, obviously, Leighton passed away and he took over.
00:06:52.920Like, it's hard for me to talk about anything from, you know, the Tom era because, you know, I worked there or I worked for Tom and I'm very close to him.
00:07:01.900So there's some things I can't really touch on.
00:07:04.460All the Jagmeet stuff I can talk about because I just haven't been involved in it.
00:07:08.420But I think, essentially, Tom was taken out by people within the party who didn't support him in the leadership race and who didn't like him and who organized to take him out.
00:07:23.420And Jagmeet, nobody's gone together to get rid of him.
00:07:28.300And, you know, I think that's a like that says something really negative about the new Democratic Party that we haven't been able to get our act together and, you know, just get rid of this guy.
00:07:42.980I mean, you say he's Justin Trudeau's assistant.
00:07:45.320It's like he's more like Justin Trudeau's intern, right?
00:07:51.160And, you know, how is it that nobody in this party has gotten their act together to get a proper leader?
00:08:00.480I mean, it says a lot of bad things about the party.
00:08:03.840And, you know, I think there used to be myself in that.
00:08:10.620And I'll include, even though he's not a federal NDP leader, I'll include John Horgan in this category that although I wouldn't vote for them, I have at least I at least have a general respect for people like Jack Layton, John Horgan and Tom Mulcair.
00:08:25.560Because although I don't agree with their policy solutions, they actually seem to have like a focus on their working class base.
00:08:32.640And I think they've lost that under Jagmeet Singh.
00:08:35.180He, in fact, comes across a lot like leaders before Jack Layton of very sanctimonious social activists.
00:08:42.660And I think that maybe you can correct me if you disagree with this perspective.
00:08:47.120But the problem with the party is because it has been so obsessed with progressive social issues that the idea is if you get rid of Jagmeet Singh now, it's not the party saying we need to go back to focusing on the economic issues that our base cares about.
00:09:01.300It's that it feels like, well, now it's a repudiation against the progressive issues that Jagmeet Singh wants to talk about.
00:09:07.540So if we get rid of him, then we're like betraying the party principles or whatever.
00:09:10.700So, like, I wonder if there's kind of like this weird, like ideological standoff where they feel like getting rid of Singh makes it look like they're betraying their principles, even though they know if they don't get rid of him, they might actually lose even more seats.
00:09:24.240Yeah, to be honest, you know, there's a reason why I'm the spokesperson for our group.
00:09:30.540And it's because I moved Silicon Valley over 10 years ago and I work as a Silicon Valley tech entrepreneur.
00:09:36.220And I couldn't like I don't care. I'm not dependent on these people.
00:09:41.220I don't need them to like me for my job.
00:09:46.300I'm zero to do with them and I don't care.
00:09:50.340Most of these people, whether they're existing staffers, former members of parliament or whatever in the orbit, if they're on the outs with the NDP, they're on the outs and they can't get a job.
00:10:04.760And I think that's a really big part of the story here, which is like people, they need to be in the in-group to keep their influence, keep their job, feed their kids.
00:10:19.140And they just can't can't do what's necessary because it's just not in their interest to do it.
00:10:24.840So it's become a bit of a bubble with Singh as the leader that criticism isn't allowed, at least now and especially around the Trudeau issue.
00:10:35.160I think that's true in all political parties at all times.
00:10:40.020And, you know, the same thing with the liberal MPs all like getting together to boot Trudeau out, you know, they all felt that, you know, the tides were shifting and they want to get the anti-Trudeau side is going to win.
00:10:57.780And they all went there because that was the best thing for their careers.
00:11:00.920And I think that's just a large, large part of the story and all these political games.
00:11:08.420Well, and it reminds me of what Anthony Housefather said in December when he finally openly called for Justin Trudeau's resignation.
00:11:16.140And he says, well, you know, back in like November, October, I or I think it might have been September.
00:11:21.700But he's saying that I wanted Trudeau to step down then, but I just hadn't said anything about it.
00:11:26.480It's like, well, what use are you then?
00:11:27.980And that's the problem is if Jagmeet Singh personally knew that we need a new election, a new government, and he didn't act on it, it's like, well, isn't that technically the quality of a leader to say the thing when it needs to be said rather than four or five months later?
00:11:46.000Because that's what, and you're, you, it's not like you were demanding or a group of the NDP, you know, like staff members or, or, you know, party insiders, they weren't demanding this, like, they might have wanted this like a year ago.
00:12:00.980It's not like you guys were demanding it like a year and a half ago, and maybe it's not the right time.
00:12:04.840We haven't been able to fundraise enough since the last election.
00:12:52.780He'd have to wait a long time before he even applies for what is a pretty small pension overall.
00:12:56.960But he's allowed people to think that that's what motivates him by acting so slowly.
00:13:03.160So he ends up being the kind of author of his own demise here in terms of his political credibility.
00:13:09.600I think to the extent that, you know, like the pension thing, like his personal interest, to the extent that comes in, I'm sure it's a small piece of it.
00:13:18.900And honestly, it came up all the time when I talked to people in the party.
00:13:24.800They're like, look, Jagmeet's not going to do this for February 25th.
00:13:30.040I have to quickly say that's actually shocking to me, because I've been the one trying to give Jagmeet the benefit of the doubt for so long,
00:13:36.920thinking that I think he likes the celebrity of being the party leader.
00:13:40.900And if a new election happens, he might be out.
00:13:43.160The fact that that man cares about his pension is somewhat shocking to me.
00:15:01.520But, you know, there's a probability that he loses his own seat.
00:15:08.060And if he loses his own seat, he loses everything.
00:15:10.020And he'll go back to, like, stocking shelves at Loblaws, which is where he deserves to be.
00:15:15.000But, you know, obviously he doesn't want to be there.
00:15:16.760Yeah, that would be, or I guess he could get a job at Metro.
00:15:20.900His brother does have a good inside lane with the Metro people, with his lobby firm.
00:15:26.860And that's, again, been just a big thing with Singh.
00:15:30.140It's just all of the own goals with constantly making everything about Loblaws.
00:15:34.160And I find that over time he's been very one-note in a way that Jack Layton or Thomas Mulcair never felt one-note.
00:15:41.300It felt like a Canadian party leader, where he feels like, again, an activist.
00:15:47.320And, again, you can maybe give me an idea of what party strategy has been over time.
00:15:53.700But from what I've observed, it felt like they sort of left working-class ridings.
00:15:59.660And they've shifted focus more over to either very traditional union ridings that they've been winning for, like, the past 50 years.
00:16:06.780And, you know, college campus ridings with a large student population.
00:16:10.940That seems like what they've limited themselves to, unless every single riding is going to get its own university.
00:16:17.160I don't think that that's going to give them a great way of being able to win in the future.
00:16:21.500Because I don't think they can, and I assume you're from Quebec, that I don't think that they're going to ever be able to pull off that big Quebec seat win like they did back in 2011.
00:16:30.960So my view of the world here is just, like, a personal thing.
00:16:36.980This is honestly more from being a startup founder than being involved in politics.
00:16:41.220But my view of the world is I just assume everybody is a totally incompetent, totally lethargic, you know, blob.
00:16:50.380And it's, like, almost everybody has no idea what they're doing.
00:16:59.920And then you have a handful of people who are capable of accomplishing things.
00:17:05.160And usually that explains almost everything.
00:17:10.860So if you just, like, assume stupidity and incompetence, it explains how the Liberal Party of Canada kicked out their only good member of Parliament, Justin Trudeau, as their leader.
00:17:47.900But really, do you want, like, somebody with as beige of a personality as Chrystia Freeland or Mark Carney or Francois-Philippe Champagne as your new leader?
00:17:57.980All these people are, Trudeau, with less charisma, except they are convinced that somehow if they throw in Freeland, they're going to win, like, 75 seats and they're going to at least look okay after this next election.
00:18:10.800I just don't even think that that's true.
00:18:12.840Well, the Ottawa, I'll just say one thing on that.
00:18:17.340The Ottawa chatting class, their kind of perspective, because they're all, like, old, right?
00:18:22.980Like, they're all, you know, in their 60s.
00:18:24.720They have a perspective in the 80s and 90s where, like, the Liberals were the, you know, natural governing party of Canada.
00:18:33.660The Liberal Party is, their natural state is 23 members of Parliament, which is where they were before Trudeau.
00:18:40.580And, like, you know, like, the way people put it in Ottawa is, like, you know, the Liberal brand is stronger than the Justin brand.
00:18:50.260And it's like, no, the Justin brand is stronger than the Liberal brand.
00:18:54.000As weak as the Justin brand is now, it's better than the absolutely horrible kind of, like, corrupt Liberal.
00:19:00.100You're right, because they tried to run just on the generic Liberal brand in 2011 and in 2008 with Stefan Dion and then Mike Lignanieff.
00:19:10.300And then that didn't work, so they decided to fully soul-suck the party by just having Justin Trudeau not only installed as a leader with barely any competition,
00:19:18.580but then also he was given dictatorial powers.
00:19:21.880They had to, like, beg Trudeau to step down because there was no way for caucus or even the party board or members to get rid of him.
00:19:29.240And now they're going back to what they didn't even have with Mike Lignanieff, which was a brand.
00:19:35.720The thing is that they didn't realize before Paul Martin had his own brand.