The National Telegraph - Wyatt Claypool - December 15, 2022


What's Up With The PPC？


Episode Stats

Length

1 hour and 7 minutes

Words per Minute

207.7893

Word Count

13,957

Sentence Count

873

Misogynist Sentences

9

Hate Speech Sentences

7


Summary


Transcript

00:00:00.080 Hello everyone, welcome to TNT Live. This is a bit of an impromptu episode that we didn't really plan on doing until today, and honestly, I didn't even realize that this would be an episode topic about a week ago, but we are joined, me and Daniel Boardman are joined with Anthony Zambito, former PPC candidate for Dufferin Caledon, and who is also a former PPC member as of just a few days ago, because I guess for some reason publishing articles that are slightly critical of the PPC in
00:00:29.980 that the National Telegraph is foreboding, and Anthony has been thrown out of the kingdom of Maxime Bernier, and we are bringing him on today to be able to talk about the controversy and what happened, why it happened, and kind of sort of the nitty-gritty details about why the PPC as a party hasn't really taken off since 2019's first election, and then after 2021, why it's kind of been faltering.
00:00:55.440 Yeah, I mean, I'll just throw it to Anthony here, but Anthony, you were the first person ever exiled from the PPC, which you find to be a very, very interesting story. So, it was likely in response to the article you wrote and published in the National Telegraph. So, take us through your journey and what it's been like for you since this has gone out.
00:01:18.060 Yeah, so first of all, thank you both of you, Wyatt and Daniel, for having me on. Yeah, for those who don't know, on Sunday night, I published an opinion piece through the National Telegraph.
00:01:31.200 Which is in the comments section right now, if you're looking for it.
00:01:33.380 Yeah, feel free to take a look at it. Just kind of an honest opinion, a critique of, you know, what's been happening within the PPC, what PPC headquarters has been doing to kind of, you know, stifle the grassroots movement, and also a critique of Maxime Bernier.
00:01:49.580 It was more of an honest opinion, like I didn't expect it to be so antagonistic, and I didn't expect such a strong response afterwards, but it must have struck a chord at PPC HQ, it must have struck a chord with Maxime Bernier, because we published that on Sunday night, and Monday night, I was effectively kicked out of the party at every level.
00:02:07.740 I was no longer, you know, I was the candidate in 2021, they told me that's never going to happen again. They kicked me off, or they kicked me off from being the CEO of my local EDA, and they kicked me out entirely for being a member, with no hearing, nothing.
00:02:23.300 Just basically, in response to the article. They said that the article that I wrote, it was a clear violation of the party pledge that I had signed, but that is not true. And that is what the PPC is telling right now. That's what they're saying publicly.
00:02:37.340 Well, and the funny thing too, is that they're acting as if the article was like unprecedented. There was nothing within the party that would suggest that anyone had this opinion. And it was just an out of the nowhere attack when I think you've told at least me in the past that you had actually been telling people inside the party that certain things need to be dealt with, the grassroots have to stop being stifled, so they can actually do their own work for quite a while.
00:02:59.900 And after they wouldn't listen, then you published the article, and then they basically accused you of like ambushing them with your opinion, as if a libertarian-esque party shouldn't be able to survive someone's own free speech being directed at them in a critical manner.
00:03:15.300 Yeah, that was really weird to me too. Like the word on Twitter, people are trying to write me off as if I'm some sort of CPC shill. I've never worked for the CPC. I've never been a member of the CPC. I've only been a member of the People's Party of Canada at the federal level.
00:03:30.980 Yeah, like, you know, they essentially had an opportunity to listen to an actual PPC member who's trying to get their voice out there. And the PPC decided to ignore it. And yeah, like you said, like this isn't unprecedented. This happens all the time in Canadian politics. You know, conservative members will write about the CPC. This happens in American politics. Nobody's more critical of the Republican Party than other Republicans. And the same thing with Democrats.
00:03:57.340 It's literally healthy for a party. I feel like the moments when the Conservative Party has faltered the most and become the least, like the least popular was the moments when they started trying to kick people out for having mild opinions, like Aaron O'Toole kicking out Denise Batters is what effectively started his sort of fall from grace, which was finished off by his weak response during the Freedom Convoy.
00:04:20.380 But it all started when he actually started like trying to huck people out of the party for, you know, just speaking their minds about how he ran the election. And you effectively did the same thing. And Maxime Bernier tried to Aaron O'Toole you out of the party, or I guess he did Aaron O'Toole you out of the party, which in my mind, the funniest thing is that everything that the party has done to you, everyone in HQ calling you up and saying that you're out and trying to unilaterally trying to like unperson you in the PPC.
00:04:45.800 See, that would make them in agreement with O'Toole doing that to Denise Batters because they're going on about, well, you know, Anthony broke the pledge, he broke the party pledge, and you showed it to me and I want to see if I can go find a photo of it.
00:04:58.360 It's literally just two, I'm not a robot style checkboxes. One of it says I support the majority of the PPC's platform. And the second one says I've not done anything in my past that would embarrass the party, which is a little bit silly if you're trying to be the party for everyone.
00:05:14.820 And like, you're against cancel culture that you're like, but be perfect when you show up.
00:05:19.780 But also it's like it's past events that there's nothing in the pledge that says that you can't be critical about the PPC's way of operating in the future.
00:05:28.820 Yeah, just let's contextualize. And Anthony, you can add more context if you feel I've mischaracterized your article in any way.
00:05:36.340 But, you know, the article you wrote isn't like a 17-page thesis statement that reveals the inner working deep state naming names behind the scene of just how dysfunctional and malevolent this all is.
00:05:48.120 It's not that. It's a pretty standard political criticism from someone who's inside the PPC.
00:05:53.840 And you're essentially saying that, hey, I think it's too much focused on rallies and not enough focused on EDAs.
00:06:02.400 Like this is the same criticism I had at the PPC. And you point out two instances of EDAs getting nuked by headquarters.
00:06:09.420 One, the Hastings, Lennox, Addington, whatever, rioting, which was dissolved because it tried to write a national constitution, right?
00:06:17.660 The PPC promised constitution. When we interviewed Maxine Brini, he said, oh, one's coming.
00:06:22.000 And then EDA writing tried to write one and they got dissolved.
00:06:26.200 And the other writing in a different region that was dissolved because it didn't want to join a conglomerated, multi, like, didn't want to be conglomerated to this big EDA that covered many different writings.
00:06:38.840 For a lot of reasons. You can't win like that. That's a bit of inside politics of, you know, small EDAs with big EDAs.
00:06:45.200 Like the point of EDA is to be small, to focus on the community. And there's some pushback, but they were dissolved.
00:06:50.380 And this is some very standard, you know, I'm in politics. I ran for this thing. This is a political criticism of the party.
00:06:59.320 It is not like Maxine Bernier is a fraud and really owned by Klaus Schwab and like is really this and this and they're fake this and fake that.
00:07:07.620 It's like, no, I have some concerns about the structure of this and it doesn't lean heavily.
00:07:12.540 It doesn't, what I've said, it's like, it basically doesn't utilize grassroots politics nearly as effectively as it should if it wants to win with some examples.
00:07:22.700 Yeah. Daniel, you were right on the ball.
00:07:25.140 Like essentially that, like I am just an average person. I work a nine to five job and I first got involved with the PPC when I heard that the Dufferin-Caladin EDA was getting started, you know, just your average citizens, like it was one father of three who started it up with somebody else who was a university student.
00:07:42.580 Like just your average people started it up and I kind of got involved with this camp and I've seen what's happened with this camp and the battles they've had with PPC, with the PPC headquarters, you know, creating the EDA and then having it expand to become a regional EDA only for that to get dissolved.
00:08:00.280 And then me having to recreate the EDA that we had already created.
00:08:03.520 Like from my perspective, I've already seen it.
00:08:06.480 Yeah. You brought up in another part of the country that's in Kelowna Lakes country.
00:08:10.640 So out there in British Columbia, same thing, you know, a run of the mills guy who is running the EDA out there, PPC HQ was putting pressure on the Kelowna Lakes country EDA to regionalize, to, you know, basically amalgamate with their neighboring EDAs.
00:08:27.760 Well, if you know anything about the geography of Kelowna and that part of British Columbia, it's very rural.
00:08:32.320 And right away, the Kelowna Lakes country people were like, not hesitant, but they just basically wanted to get input from their members before adopting this amalgamation.
00:08:43.380 That wasn't enough for the PPC.
00:08:45.860 They decided to proceed and dissolve their EDA, basically denying their members the opportunity to vote on regionalization.
00:08:54.180 And in Hastings, Lennox, Addington, they are still advocating that they were drafting a constitution and they're basically still pleading with the party saying that this is unjust, that Maxime Bernier is making these decisions, basically calling into question the fact that Maxime Bernier is the sole governing authority of the party.
00:09:12.800 These, yeah, you know, writing associate, or sorry, EDAs like in HLA and in Kelowna Lakes country, basically, they weren't willing to jump the second PPC HQ told them to.
00:09:23.500 And as a result, they got deregistered.
00:09:25.020 Well, the funny thing about HLA too, is that they were making a constitution for the party.
00:09:30.420 They were literally doing just free work for the PPC saying, hey, guys, maybe you're super busy.
00:09:34.580 We're going to put together a constitution that gives the memberships that people buy to the PPC more than just the tax receipt that they get to use at the end of the year, that you actually get voting rights.
00:09:43.960 We'll have a convention and we'll vote on policy.
00:09:46.440 And the thing is, those things are so important because when you actually show up to the conventions and you're voting and you're meeting other members, you're building the party culture.
00:09:54.660 You're building the structure.
00:09:55.900 You're giving people abilities to have an investment in the party.
00:09:58.660 Whereas if you just have a membership that gets you nothing, well, and other than you get to vote in leadership reviews that Maxime schedules himself, that who cares?
00:10:07.420 And even then, even if Maxime lost that leadership review, there's literally no democratic function to say that he has to step down.
00:10:12.920 It would just say, well, I guess I didn't do too well on that one.
00:10:14.980 And then he could just keep leading the party.
00:10:17.020 It's silly.
00:10:17.960 But HLA doing the free work for the PPC to start a constitution literally got shut down.
00:10:23.880 That's how absurd it is.
00:10:25.160 The thing, if you would, the Conservative Party, I would never say there wasn't corruption in the Conservative Party, but they're never that overt to kick you out for doing something like, oh, I'm going to put forward a constitutional amendment.
00:10:36.900 You're allowed to do that in the Conservative Party.
00:10:38.600 There's a lot of things you can't do, but you can at least do something, not just sort of sit around and wait for Maxime Bernier to tell you what to think.
00:10:45.300 Yeah, and I can understand if PPC HQ was insulted by the article that I wrote, but to throw me out without a hearing, that is the biggest thing.
00:10:54.400 To throw me out without an opportunity to appeal, without an opportunity to explain myself, that is the thing that kind of surprises me the most, especially because the PPC brands himself as being the party of free speech.
00:11:06.280 There's a greater irony to all of this.
00:11:10.860 It's like the inception of the PPC was Maxime Bernier.
00:11:13.480 And I think you even wrote this in an article.
00:11:14.740 You gave him his suit, Maxime Bernier getting screwed over.
00:11:17.560 And watching that and what was going on in Quebec and the buying of the votes and the dairy cartels and the narrow margin share won by in the highly suspect election.
00:11:26.580 And PPC was essentially founded on the principle of like, this is not how Canadian politics should work.
00:11:33.020 We're making a party for the people.
00:11:35.580 And at no point has there ever been any say that the people have had in the People's Party of Canada.
00:11:42.740 And listen, I get why some people like the PPC right now.
00:11:45.540 You're anti-lockdown.
00:11:47.200 You know, the government's crazy.
00:11:48.460 You've been forced into your house for two years.
00:11:50.280 And Maxime Bernier went around the country saying, you know, enough is enough for the last year or so.
00:11:54.880 And to his credit, you know, enough is enough.
00:11:58.860 He's right about most things locked down.
00:12:01.480 But the very fact that, again, you look at the pattern of behavior here, which is they claim they want a constitution.
00:12:13.520 And then they don't.
00:12:15.200 And then someone tries.
00:12:16.040 They spend years and they don't write one.
00:12:18.280 Someone tries to do the work for them.
00:12:20.100 So it's like not just that they're super lazy.
00:12:22.060 If Maxime was just very, very lazy and was just smoking weed and going to rallies and, like, oh, I didn't have time to write a constitution, you'd be like, great.
00:12:29.940 Someone's doing my homework for me, right?
00:12:31.540 You're the lazy kid in class.
00:12:32.800 And the smart kid's like, can I just do your homework?
00:12:35.480 Yeah.
00:12:36.300 Right?
00:12:36.980 Then you say, no, I don't want – I'm not going to do my homework.
00:12:39.940 I don't want anyone else to do my homework.
00:12:41.200 I'm not going to copy up you on the test.
00:12:42.740 We're just not going to have it done.
00:12:44.020 It means that the PPC headquarters doesn't want a constitution, right?
00:12:47.920 And the thing is that, too, is that when we actually had Frank Vaughn on, like, a year and a half ago or so, he even brought this up.
00:12:55.420 And I've seen the post.
00:12:56.360 I think it's still up if you really go back into Maxime Bernier's Twitter right after the first election in 2019 that they went through.
00:13:02.720 And it's like, fair enough.
00:13:03.440 They didn't have a constitution up until 2019.
00:13:06.220 They're just getting their sea legs.
00:13:07.760 They're running up to the – they know an election's coming, so they're trying to move quickly.
00:13:11.700 Fair enough.
00:13:12.060 And then afterwards, Maxime Bernier kind of goes on, like, vacation.
00:13:15.840 And then when people are like, hey, why did you just go on vacation right after the election and just kind of dumped everything off?
00:13:20.360 He posted a photo of all these, like, constitution-type books with him while he was at the lake or something, like, all these sort of conservative philosophy books, as if he was writing anything.
00:13:31.020 Like, when it was, like, constitution on its way or something stupid.
00:13:33.900 And it's, like, it's three years later now, and we still don't have anything.
00:13:37.560 At some point, you actually – you need – it's like someone needs to call you out.
00:13:41.160 Right now is – Wyatt, so I'm going to cut you off here.
00:13:42.880 And I'd say the question is – I think we've seen proof that he doesn't want a constitution.
00:13:45.920 The question is, why doesn't he want a constitution?
00:13:48.520 And this is my Occam's razor thing.
00:13:50.220 The simplest answer is off in the base.
00:13:52.180 Because a constitution could be used to remove him from leadership.
00:13:56.400 It means someone else could take over the PPC.
00:13:58.840 And this is what it said.
00:14:00.120 The PPC is not a political party anymore.
00:14:01.900 It's the Maxine Britney show.
00:14:02.920 And I think there's enough evidence coming towards that where they're not doing the things they need to win elections, not expanding grassroots and the ground game and all this.
00:14:11.880 These just going around on Twitter and going around the country saying, like, very sort of – I say it both literally and figuratively – the fringe things, right?
00:14:20.380 We the fringe, I get it.
00:14:21.800 But he's kind of taking positions that are just, like, really, you know, for, like, a hardcore base that – to just, like, draw in financial support that he's never going to win with.
00:14:31.720 Like, I don't know why Maxine – like, Maxine Bernier was foreign policy advisor under Stephen Harper.
00:14:36.660 And Maxine Bernier knows that he shouldn't be taking his current position on Russia.
00:14:39.940 Like, he should know geopolitics better to know that, you know, the criticism of the Ukrainian stuff isn't actually as valid.
00:14:46.760 It's more complicated than that.
00:14:48.240 Like, yes, there's some money laundering in Ukraine.
00:14:50.440 But, like, to pretend that Ukraine's the most corrupt country in the world, like, no.
00:14:53.960 Like, when we gave Afghanistan money, the president, like, just, like, ran away with it.
00:14:57.660 And, like, it's not the same thing.
00:15:00.220 Like, he knew as foreign policy secretary that, like, appeasement of dictators doesn't work.
00:15:04.700 And now he's kind of tweeting – now he's kind of – because the reason you would go and, like, back – kind of back and push some, like, you know, quasi-pro-Russian stuff is because you want the people who are, like, so down the rabbit hole who think of you as the saver.
00:15:17.640 And he's sort of building a cult of personality.
00:15:19.980 And in my estimation, the reason – the reasoning here is follows.
00:15:24.280 He doesn't want a constitution so he can't be removed.
00:15:26.640 And then he wants to build up a hardcore base of followers, the most hardcore and loyal, that will always accept him because he's always telling them they want to hear so he can continue to siphon money off of them indefinitely.
00:15:37.580 That's my opinion of what the PPC looks like from the last four years of its behavior.
00:15:43.400 That is essentially it.
00:15:45.260 Nail on the head again.
00:15:46.420 You know, the PPC, like, the people who joined the PPC in 2018 when it first started, those are not the people that – like, most of those people aren't around anymore.
00:15:56.220 They've left the party.
00:15:58.460 In addition to that, too, yeah, like –
00:16:01.080 I love this comment.
00:16:02.300 What did he say?
00:16:03.200 The BL sounds like PPC is becoming an in-real-life version of those political Twitch streamers.
00:16:08.380 Pretty much, yeah.
00:16:09.700 I mean, like, no, actually, here, let me say this.
00:16:12.280 Like, there are a lot of PPC members that I have respect for.
00:16:15.800 I talk to PPC candidates all the time, and I love them.
00:16:21.460 They're, like, great citizens who just, like, took up the call and wanted to get involved.
00:16:26.000 But, like, my problem is they're getting no support from HQ.
00:16:29.060 Like, they're fighting a war and the general's MIA.
00:16:32.360 And this is another thing, too.
00:16:33.960 Like, you know, I wrote my article.
00:16:36.560 The thing that the PPC headquarters doesn't know is that I keep in touch with more PPC members on the daily than they do.
00:16:41.620 I'm in touch with, like, you know, candidates, volunteers, and a lot of them are split on their thoughts on my article.
00:16:47.780 Half of them have – or some of them have outspokenly said that they support what I've written.
00:16:52.860 For instance, the team at HLA, Maggie Sagunas, who represented Cambridge, she came out and supported me.
00:16:58.160 Some people basically came out and, you know, gave their thoughts on my article, what they thought of it.
00:17:05.120 And some people have even taken to lying about me.
00:17:08.120 But there's an underclass of people within the PPC that agree with what I say, that want the principles of my article to get escalated and to get exemplified.
00:17:18.120 Now they're scared, though, that if they go against what the PPC says, they're going to get kicked out.
00:17:23.680 It's almost like they tried to make an example of me, that if you go against what Maxine Bernier wants, what the PPC wants, you're going to get up expelled like that ill and unprofessional party pledge-violating guy in Dufferin-Kaladin.
00:17:35.120 Yeah, that's why – I don't like this.
00:17:38.740 Like, I hated Aaron O'Toole.
00:17:40.500 Like, I didn't –
00:17:41.560 We were literally the first publication out there that was, like, explicitly anti-Aaron O'Toole for any of those, like, flat-out mouth breathers out there who are like, you guys are just CPC shields if you don't like Maxine Bernier.
00:17:53.320 Yeah, I see someone in the comments is asking for the article.
00:17:55.880 The article is in the comments if you're looking for it.
00:17:57.860 I put it in there.
00:17:58.720 You can scroll up.
00:17:59.420 Yeah, it's – yeah, it's – this is one of the – like, this is the major flaw of the O'Toole era, which was just, like, the excommunications, this, like, this thirst for power from Aaron O'Toole that we spoke, where he wasn't willing to engage with the grassroots.
00:18:15.980 He wasn't willing to listen.
00:18:17.580 He had his GTA Toronto advisors, and they were, like – I talked to conservative – like, same like you.
00:18:24.800 I would talk to people out in BC, like conservative activists in BC who were running EDAs.
00:18:29.420 And the people who would run – they would fly people in from Ontario to tell them what to do.
00:18:33.800 And they'd be, like, no, I know my neighborhood better than you do.
00:18:36.120 And they'd be, like, you're out.
00:18:37.620 And, like, what?
00:18:38.140 No, you're out.
00:18:38.660 And, like, Ontario people just kick him out.
00:18:40.040 Like, because, like, Aaron O'Toole knew best.
00:18:42.220 Aaron O'Toole would know how to win the GTA and the – and the whole country is the GTA.
00:18:46.820 And it's, like, no, it's not.
00:18:48.380 Right?
00:18:48.720 And this sort of – right?
00:18:50.000 Excommunicating anyone who would, like, be – who was just different than him.
00:18:54.180 Right?
00:18:54.540 Polyev was more popular, so he demoted him.
00:18:57.000 Denise Bathurst said some conservative things.
00:18:59.700 She was kicked out.
00:19:00.640 You know, the whole Bill C-4 debacle, which he just rammed that whole thing through.
00:19:04.820 And that was, you know, that was essentially what – you know, and all this did come back
00:19:09.860 to bite Aaron O'Toole in the ass.
00:19:11.440 But that's because he didn't found the CPC.
00:19:14.080 Like, the CPC had a constitution.
00:19:15.940 It was a party.
00:19:17.000 You know, it predated him.
00:19:17.980 There were mechanisms to remove him that he pissed off enough people, and they implemented,
00:19:22.680 and they pulled the levers.
00:19:24.240 This seems to be a story, though, of the PPC making sure that none of these mechanisms
00:19:29.140 ever get built.
00:19:30.540 And it will ultimately destroy their party, I think, because their founding principle was
00:19:35.180 power to the people.
00:19:36.380 And this would be the people's party.
00:19:37.920 And the people could remove him at any time they want.
00:19:39.760 And that just seems to not be true.
00:19:41.280 This seems to be the Maxime Bernier show.
00:19:43.040 And to go into the whole Maxime Bernier show thing, I don't feel like people – I think
00:19:48.340 the PPC HQ does this, where they say, well, all of our reports are online.
00:19:52.340 We're transparent.
00:19:53.160 And it's like, sort of.
00:19:54.620 You can put stuff online on your website, but it's not advertised information.
00:19:59.180 The thing is that people don't really seem to know that Maxime Bernier is not just doing
00:20:02.860 this for charity.
00:20:04.080 He literally gets paid.
00:20:05.320 I'll bring it up on screen right now.
00:20:07.040 Or not this one.
00:20:08.380 Oh, I had to go find it.
00:20:09.360 I literally have it on screen on another page.
00:20:11.880 But Maxime Bernier gets paid $104,000 a year for everything he does, for every year to
00:20:18.700 just run the PPC, whether it's an on-year or off-year election, whether he ran that year
00:20:22.620 or he didn't, he gets $104,000.
00:20:25.400 Then all his travel expenses are also paid for.
00:20:28.280 Lots of other stuff are paid for.
00:20:29.740 I've seen him.
00:20:30.460 He gets a lot of food comps for him everywhere he goes.
00:20:32.980 It's not like he's roughing it for the people and trying to make sure that he makes the party
00:20:37.260 operate as best as it can.
00:20:38.820 The party doesn't bring in that much money every year, yet on off-year elections, when
00:20:43.400 there's no election that year, they're spending nearly $400,000 on staffing expenses every
00:20:49.380 year and $550,000 when there is an election.
00:20:53.140 It's actually a massive amount of money going to people who are probably getting paid full-time
00:20:57.060 salaries to do probably what you consider not exactly full-time work when you see how
00:21:01.760 little is actually accomplished most of the time outside of media hype, which it's not
00:21:05.880 even really their doing, it's more so their activists who aren't paid or the people who
00:21:10.240 are gaining them support.
00:21:11.360 But yeah, remember that.
00:21:12.420 Maxine Bernier gets a six-figure salary, and I believe he's also collecting his pension
00:21:16.580 every month from being in office.
00:21:19.180 It's ridiculous.
00:21:20.160 But another thing I want to do to highlight is that I actually think, and just personally
00:21:24.540 this is my own theory, that he's getting way more money than anyone actually thinks.
00:21:28.260 It's not just the $104,000 salary, because does everyone remember the Toronto Centre and
00:21:33.480 York Centre by-elections from 2020?
00:21:36.960 Every day.
00:21:37.720 Everyone knows everything about the Wyatt.
00:21:39.940 But Maxine Bernier ran in York Centre in 2020, and this guy named Bajid Bawa ran for the PPC
00:21:46.420 in Toronto Centre.
00:21:48.140 And together, both of them got, like combined, both of them got less than 1,000 votes.
00:21:53.320 And this is elections where the winners were like getting like 23,000 votes or something like
00:21:57.500 that, or like, maybe it's like 17,000, but they're getting like over 10,000 votes for
00:22:02.000 the winner.
00:22:02.640 And these two together didn't even get 10,000 in their two ridings.
00:22:05.880 They spent, and here's the thing at the bottom, you see, this party transferred and spent $42,280
00:22:11.800 to the candidates in those by-elections, i.e.
00:22:15.420 Maxine Bernier and Bajid Bawa.
00:22:17.560 Where did you see that money in those two elections?
00:22:20.420 Where did you see that money getting people out to the doors?
00:22:23.540 You know what I mean?
00:22:23.880 Like you think they were, it was to the point, I think I calculated back in the day, it was like
00:22:27.020 $23 every single vote they got.
00:22:29.640 And they didn't exactly make a big impact.
00:22:32.000 I understand it's a long shot.
00:22:33.680 They're not going to win that riding, but it didn't even, like, I would have used that
00:22:36.780 money so much better.
00:22:37.900 And that's the problem in HQ is that there isn't any standards on how they spend.
00:22:42.700 Yeah.
00:22:42.900 Like, and it's, like, listen, I don't think, I think the leader of the PPC should be drawing
00:22:47.900 salary from the PPC.
00:22:49.120 Like, I'm not expecting anyone to work for nothing.
00:22:51.720 And that is like a job and you can do it.
00:22:53.980 But if part of your criticism of the, you know, establishment is, oh, all these greedy
00:22:59.180 politicians, I'm different.
00:23:00.760 Well, you're not acting in a way that's any different, really.
00:23:04.500 Like, you're also drawing a pension from your previous time.
00:23:08.360 And, you know, like, where are we seeing this investment?
00:23:11.320 Like, are we, like, are we really seeing this investment pay off in any type of ground
00:23:14.500 game?
00:23:14.760 Like, Maxime Bernay, it's, he goes to rallies and he speaks and we see him on Twitter making
00:23:19.480 tweets.
00:23:19.760 It's like, I have a Twitter account.
00:23:20.960 It doesn't cost, it doesn't cost $100,000 for me to tweet daily.
00:23:25.220 And I just want to clarify, I'm also not against the party leader making money.
00:23:28.600 It's more so, do I see that $104,000 on the field when he's out there?
00:23:32.940 Like, the problem with rallies, too, and I think we would all agree, the problem with
00:23:36.180 rallies is that your organ, that the mom who shops at Safeway and buys her coffee at
00:23:42.040 Starbucks, who's not super political, is not going to different parties' rallies to
00:23:45.760 figure out who she's going to vote for.
00:23:47.140 Like, she's just going to sit at home, if someone knocks on her door, she'll talk to
00:23:50.480 them.
00:23:50.920 And then maybe she likes a couple things they said.
00:23:53.580 She gets a couple emails from some people.
00:23:55.440 She got a couple mailers she looked at.
00:23:57.480 But it's mostly people vote based on who talked to them.
00:24:00.780 They're not going to PPC rallies.
00:24:02.740 The people who go to PPC rallies support the PPC, just as people who go and see Jagmeet
00:24:07.040 Singh at NDP rallies are NDP-ers.
00:24:09.020 Yeah, like, Maxime Bernier showing up to these rallies, like, I can understand at the height
00:24:14.700 of COVID, you know, when you had 20,000, 30,000 people, you know, at Queens Park.
00:24:20.440 I attended a lot of those rallies, too, right?
00:24:22.360 And, you know, they're important in the sense that they're good for networking, they're good
00:24:25.100 for making contacts.
00:24:26.040 A lot of volunteers for the PPC, you know, made their way to the PPC from these rallies.
00:24:31.580 I'm like, the thing is, though, you can't just keep doing that for three years and expect
00:24:36.800 a different result.
00:24:38.300 Yeah, like you said, why?
00:24:39.480 He's spending $42,000 in a Toronto by-election.
00:24:42.440 How come I'm able to get four times the votes with a quarter of the money?
00:24:45.660 Okay, mind you, it was a much general election.
00:24:48.660 I was fortunate to get, you know, 4,300.
00:24:50.620 There was a bit of a wave happening at that point against COVID.
00:24:53.980 Fair enough.
00:24:54.880 But the thing is, I feel like the leader in York Centre, which is a conservative riding,
00:24:59.360 I think they actually prevented the Conservatives from winning it back.
00:25:02.620 I don't really care.
00:25:03.480 I don't really like the argument that the PPC caused the Conservatives to lose.
00:25:06.700 If you're not voting for the Conservatives, you're not voting for it.
00:25:08.180 Well, I think York Centre was liberal.
00:25:09.560 It was Michael Leavitt who held it, and they went to Yara Sacks.
00:25:13.240 Oh, I think it was like a riding that the Conservatives could have technically won.
00:25:17.500 The Conservatives could have won, not won.
00:25:19.800 It was also like, yeah, I mean...
00:25:22.020 I mean, it was a more conservative.
00:25:23.100 I'm thinking relative to Toronto Centre.
00:25:25.380 Like, they technically could have won it.
00:25:26.900 I don't buy the nonsense that the PPC prevented the Conservatives from winning the riding.
00:25:31.260 No one...
00:25:32.060 Like, it's not your vote if you didn't win the vote.
00:25:34.740 At the same time, it never felt like Maxime Bernier's kind of name recognition was actually
00:25:39.420 rubbing off in that riding.
00:25:40.320 And a riding that his name recognition would rub off on, and I keep getting flack for bringing
00:25:45.680 this up, is in both.
00:25:47.740 And in both in 2019, when he had the better chance, in 2021, he was nowhere to be seen.
00:25:52.620 And I understand that, oh, I want to rally support all around the country, but let's
00:25:56.660 make sure that we can prove that the formula of the party works in one riding first.
00:26:00.960 Elizabeth May, when she was trying to get herself elected, I think she first got elected
00:26:03.780 in like 2006 or 2004.
00:26:05.620 When she first got elected, it wasn't because she was touring the country and people out in
00:26:10.840 Nanaimo or whatever small town is in her Vancouver Island kind of little area.
00:26:16.720 They didn't vote for her just because they happened to like her.
00:26:19.980 It's because she organized all the Green Party's resources in that area and make sure that they
00:26:26.040 could prove that the Green Party could win a seat.
00:26:28.260 The problem is in 2019, he actually wasn't even that far away from winning.
00:26:31.480 I think he was like nine points down, which is not much considering the fact that he didn't
00:26:34.720 put that much effort into the area.
00:26:36.500 If he stuck around and just pooled the PPC resources and said, hey, guys, just letting
00:26:40.940 you know, I don't think it should be surprising.
00:26:42.480 None of you, no one else is going to win that this is our first right, our first election.
00:26:48.060 Most parties don't even survive their first election.
00:26:50.940 But if I can get reelected, we're going to explode and we can probably even coax some
00:26:55.340 CPC people who are dissatisfied with Scheer and O'Toole over to our side.
00:26:59.480 But that didn't happen.
00:27:00.500 It was like, it's frustrating when I see someone almost acting in such a way to ensure that
00:27:05.740 they don't actually have to do work in parliament because he's still being paid a parliamentary salary
00:27:09.940 effectively.
00:27:10.440 Yeah, I, yeah, he is.
00:27:13.320 I'm not going back to what Daniel was saying before, too.
00:27:15.540 I'm not against the fact that he's like earning a salary.
00:27:17.600 I think it's modest, but it's just, yeah, like he's not even using it for his town in
00:27:21.020 Boas.
00:27:21.300 Like how much time does he even spend in Boas?
00:27:23.960 He actually lost votes between the 2019 election and the 2021 election in Boas.
00:27:28.520 What does that make me think?
00:27:29.520 That makes you think that he doesn't connect with this with his own writing.
00:27:33.300 Number one.
00:27:33.880 Number two, I think it would be worth his time to show people how to campaign in their
00:27:39.540 writings rather than like last election.
00:27:42.140 The campaign strategy for Maxime Bernier, at least from my perspective in my Ontario writing
00:27:46.120 was, hey, Maxime Bernier is going to be attending a rally in location X.
00:27:50.660 Bring all your supporters to location X.
00:27:52.880 And, you know, I did that one day.
00:27:56.240 I ended up losing almost an entire day of campaigning.
00:27:59.540 I asked myself, yeah, if Maxime Bernier was to stay in Boas and just like do a good job
00:28:03.340 there, I wonder if that would be more impactful across the country.
00:28:06.060 But obviously, PPC does HQ wouldn't want to hear an opinion like that.
00:28:10.140 And even then, you're actually right.
00:28:11.760 When you tell someone to like a candidates to say, oh, send all your supporters and volunteers
00:28:16.300 to like sort of geographical location X because we're having a rally, you're to a certain extent
00:28:21.720 wasting their time.
00:28:22.860 Rallies are great almost between elections.
00:28:24.760 Like big parties do them for photo ops every once in a while.
00:28:27.820 But these massive parties like the Conservatives, Liberals have enough people where they can
00:28:31.420 kind of throw some of their members over to that rally to sort of give them a backdrop
00:28:35.640 to take photos with.
00:28:36.940 But when you're a small party, all those people could be door knocking.
00:28:39.740 All those people could be doing phone calling.
00:28:41.840 All those people could be in their areas.
00:28:43.360 When you're a small grassroots party, you have to just double down on the fact that you're
00:28:47.620 a grassroots party and invest in the volunteers.
00:28:50.500 Don't invest in the tour because the tour can happen afterwards.
00:28:53.940 That's where you drum up support when an election's not on where you don't need to be in specific
00:28:57.140 areas.
00:28:58.160 And again, like I don't think that we even won any more votes by touring.
00:29:01.540 I think he ends up just creating more social media hype.
00:29:04.300 Maybe he got a little bit out of it.
00:29:06.080 But again, he would have done so much better if he's in post.
00:29:08.060 And again, I'm not just reserving this and like sort of having this double standard around
00:29:11.880 care if the conservatives aren't doing, aren't making the same mistakes.
00:29:15.140 Pierre Polyev just made the same mistakes in Mississauga Lakeshore.
00:29:18.520 He did not go to the riding and he lost it.
00:29:21.520 Ron Chihizer or whatever.
00:29:23.520 I forget what is, I can't pronounce his name.
00:29:26.020 What?
00:29:26.520 Kinzer, is it?
00:29:27.380 Chinzer.
00:29:27.780 There you go.
00:29:28.420 I heard it today on Andrew Lawton's show, which is a great show.
00:29:31.720 But watch this one before you go and watch whatever Andrew Lawton just said.
00:29:35.080 But but like Pierre Polyev is known for his viral videos and and rallying support.
00:29:42.060 Like he won the conservative leadership race with like record breaking numbers, basically.
00:29:46.720 And he didn't help try and help out a Mississauga candidate who had a realistic chance of winning.
00:29:51.760 But like by elections have very poor turnout.
00:29:54.160 And if Pierre Polyev brought some of the sort of like the magic to that riding, did some viral
00:29:58.300 videos in Mississauga Lakeshore, showed how Pierre Polyev, sorry, Justin Trudeau is ruining
00:30:02.380 the economy in that area, I think he could have rallied out a few thousand more voters
00:30:07.040 and actually like given the liberal a run for their money, even if they didn't win, they
00:30:10.320 could say, hey, that we brought the margin down to just one percent when it used to be
00:30:13.860 like five.
00:30:14.620 That would have been a great thing to do anyways.
00:30:16.740 But it's like he was too scared that he'd lose.
00:30:19.220 And I think in the same sense, Maxime Bernier was almost scared that if he tried in both,
00:30:24.280 he would lose and he'd look worse.
00:30:27.640 Yeah, no, that's a good point.
00:30:28.760 Um, yeah, I think that he, yeah, he's, he needs to step it.
00:30:32.320 And this is another question too.
00:30:33.860 He needs to step it up in both.
00:30:35.240 And also this is like a real criticism here.
00:30:37.940 You got to ask yourself if Maxime Bernier was lucky enough to form governments, would
00:30:42.040 he make a good prime minister?
00:30:43.660 I mean, I take a look at the way that he's running the PPC and I asked myself, I think
00:30:47.440 he'd be very similar to, I think he would do a lot of similar things that Trudeau would
00:30:50.900 do except on a different angle.
00:30:53.260 So for instance, Trudeau, uh, you know, basically says his, uh, his MPs or his caucus isn't allowed
00:30:59.360 to speak on issues for like, for instance, abortion, right?
00:31:03.080 What if Maxime Bernier did something like that as well?
00:31:05.580 Uh, I mean, he already does it within his party.
00:31:07.820 Um, I kind of like, I asked myself like, you know, basically before you can govern, you,
00:31:13.800 you have to, before you get elected to govern, you have to show you can govern.
00:31:17.860 And Maxime Bernier, like, he really hasn't done that, like not within the PPC by any standards.
00:31:23.680 Well, I think we talked before and I, the one comment I thought was kind of funny that
00:31:27.660 you made just because it was kind of, I don't know, it just sort of seemed like one of these
00:31:30.700 almost movie like lines about, um, about someone, but you said that, uh, you had heard for,
00:31:36.680 for so long that Maxime Bernier was like the laziest MP in the conservative party and you
00:31:41.040 didn't really believe it.
00:31:42.060 And then you joined the PPC and then you saw it was true.
00:31:45.580 He's actually that lazy.
00:31:48.040 I mean, like, I, I'm not going to lie.
00:31:51.000 I haven't talked to Maxime Bernier for more than five minutes, but I just feel like, you
00:31:54.300 know, the output that he puts up politically, it's just like, he's not trying his best,
00:31:57.560 not for anything.
00:31:58.140 I mean, you got to think, think about their response to me, to kicking me out.
00:32:02.720 They're saying that I violated a party pledge that I signed.
00:32:05.880 Maxime Bernier is a lawyer.
00:32:07.280 He should know that you're, you shouldn't, you're not allowed to lie again about people.
00:32:10.940 I never signed a party pledge, never violated a party pledge that I signed.
00:32:14.560 And like you said, why it was a joke or why it, it was a joke.
00:32:18.320 Uh, it was a joke of a thing.
00:32:20.720 It was basically as contractually binding as an, I'm not a robot checkmark that you.
00:32:25.980 There's no, there's nothing you're signing.
00:32:27.440 And again, they're saying that the pledge just because, oh, you embarrassed the party.
00:32:30.760 It was that they didn't want to, they wouldn't even point to the specific thing you did or
00:32:34.800 the specific of way you violated the pledge, but you had people out there, like Mark Friesen,
00:32:39.600 just sort of like, like, like laying back, like, oh, he violated the pledge.
00:32:42.980 I can't believe him.
00:32:44.080 Well, it's just, well, he knew what he was doing, blah, blah, blah.
00:32:46.840 And it's like, you know what, Mark, shut up.
00:32:49.960 You are only, all you do is just give Maxime Bernier back rubs all day and think you're
00:32:55.460 being principled.
00:32:56.360 And like, the thing is like, I'm being as harsh as I possibly can right now.
00:33:00.120 Mark Friesen is what is wrong with the PPC.
00:33:02.360 Nobody cares about talking about the UN all day.
00:33:04.680 This is the, the PPC does not speak to people's kitchen table, like, like, like issues.
00:33:09.760 At the end of the day, people care about inflation.
00:33:12.000 I hate the UN.
00:33:13.140 I hate the WEF.
00:33:14.240 At some point we all have to stop grandstanding and saying, well, I'm talking about the real
00:33:17.800 issues that matter.
00:33:18.500 Cause I talked with the WEF or the UN more than you.
00:33:21.040 And it's like, that's what the, the, the PPC has become with a lot of the influencers,
00:33:24.480 just people who just talk about how, like, oh, don't you know about this issue that no
00:33:29.620 one else is talking about?
00:33:30.700 Like no one's talking about it because people don't buy groceries based on that issue.
00:33:34.980 And it's sort of like the, the death of the acceptance of nuance.
00:33:38.720 Okay.
00:33:39.260 Like, listen, I, I don't like a lot of political posturing and I've made the public examples.
00:33:43.920 I made it on radio.
00:33:44.640 I made it in national telegraph articles.
00:33:45.700 I made it in videos that this pussyfooting around that the O'Toole sheer thing did and
00:33:49.380 being afraid of conservative values is bad and you need to stand on your values and that's
00:33:52.760 good.
00:33:52.940 But at the same sense, like I do understand that in some places, Maxime or Pierre can't
00:34:00.460 go so extreme one way or the other that they turn off everyone else.
00:34:03.760 And there is an acceptance that you have to have, that some people have to be pragmatic
00:34:07.900 in the sense of how they can win.
00:34:09.480 Like, I think there's too much skewed towards that philosophy right now where the conservative
00:34:14.280 party gets up in their own head and they're like, well, we get like, there was the Patrick
00:34:17.660 Brown days.
00:34:18.180 They literally told us we can't have principles because the CBC will say bad things about us.
00:34:22.140 And we're like, okay, screw this.
00:34:23.880 Like, that's too much.
00:34:25.420 But this sort of like crazy purity test where it's like, if you're not tweeting at least
00:34:30.980 10 times a week about Bill Gates at the WEF, then you're not a real conservative.
00:34:35.420 It's like, no, like these aren't issues that anyone cares about.
00:34:38.480 Like you don't win anyone over with these issues.
00:34:41.220 And like the people you do, and if you're like, no, no, I want to hear about this for
00:34:44.720 every one of you, you have to understand there's like 10 normies that you're going to scare
00:34:49.320 away.
00:34:49.640 So like you're, you only have one vote.
00:34:51.960 And like you're, if your issues are like, listen, my issues are, we don't, we don't
00:34:56.540 nuke the UN enough.
00:34:57.280 Like I would nuke the UN.
00:34:58.100 Like if someone said like, we're just a thermonuclear strike.
00:35:00.460 I want to start a nuclear war against the United Nations.
00:35:02.380 I'd be like, I don't, I know this doesn't make sense rationally.
00:35:05.460 It's a bad idea, but you've got my vote.
00:35:07.860 But for everyone like me, there's going to be 25 people go, what the hell are you talking
00:35:11.760 about?
00:35:12.640 Here's the thing too, is that you're right about the peer testing.
00:35:15.260 I was in a Twitter space actually right after Anthony had gotten kicked out, like basically
00:35:18.860 the morning afterwards.
00:35:20.380 And I was in just this Twitter space.
00:35:22.040 There's PPC people kind of trying to rationalize why Anthony was being kicked out.
00:35:26.500 And I had people actively say that, well, it doesn't matter that Pierre Polyev says that
00:35:31.000 he's going to ban his cabinet ministers from going to WEF events.
00:35:34.500 And he doesn't want anything to do with the WEF and he hates their values because that's
00:35:38.500 just a dodge because the real threat is the UN and the WF is just the marketing arm.
00:35:42.980 So he's secretly saying he's still on board with the agenda.
00:35:45.680 I'm like, what do you, what would actually satisfy you guys?
00:35:49.100 I guarantee you if Pierre Polyev adopted Maxime Bernier's positions tomorrow or Mark Friesen's
00:35:54.260 positions, you guys would probably, you guys would find out how he's secretly actually
00:35:57.440 serving Klaus Schwab.
00:35:58.700 It's ridiculous.
00:35:59.740 Is it one year apart?
00:36:01.200 And this is what actual reactionary politics looks like.
00:36:04.380 When I say reactionary, I'm not just saying, oh, they're extremists or something like that.
00:36:07.540 That's nonsense.
00:36:07.940 You see this right now in the States with the Donald Trump versus like Ron DeSantis type
00:36:11.880 stuff where there's just people absolutely nuts and like, DeSantis is disloyal right now.
00:36:16.340 He's crazy.
00:36:16.880 He's not real.
00:36:17.360 It's like Ron DeSantis is the only governor in the Western world who did exactly what you
00:36:21.740 wanted during COVID.
00:36:22.620 He's the only one when actually had the reins of power, resisted abusing that power and locking
00:36:28.240 everyone down.
00:36:28.720 He's the only one that passes your COVID purity test, right?
00:36:32.200 On every single issue, like vaccines, lockdowns, masks, whatever.
00:36:36.280 And like people like, no, he's thinking of running against Trump.
00:36:40.040 So therefore, like all these political values I pretend to stand on, I'm throwing them out
00:36:44.680 the window because it's just like I'm loyal to the brand of the party or the man.
00:36:49.620 And like, that's what I see a lot of the criticism against you is it's like, yeah, it's the purple
00:36:54.680 team.
00:36:55.260 And it's like in that same Twitter space.
00:36:58.000 And this is what going back to what you were saying, Daniel, about like turning people off
00:37:01.740 of things.
00:37:02.720 There's too many people in a lot of parties that just don't get off the ground who don't
00:37:07.120 who have never actually put in the work on the ground.
00:37:09.300 They like the social media hype, but they've never actually talked to average people and
00:37:12.920 what they think about politics.
00:37:14.160 A lot of people are really awkward.
00:37:15.720 They don't really like talking about it.
00:37:16.960 I think that's the problem in Canada is that there's almost so little money in politics.
00:37:20.720 It almost becomes something that nobody cares to talk about because it's almost like this
00:37:24.560 is kind of the problem with restricting donations is that there's no big money in politics, which
00:37:29.100 means that politics becomes a small issue.
00:37:31.340 So people think it's kind of weird to have like strong political opinions.
00:37:34.940 I've gone door knocking in that Twitter space.
00:37:37.280 People said that I don't door knock because I've never had my vote changed at the door.
00:37:41.920 I'm like, then you're a fool.
00:37:43.160 You've never actually spoken to the average people and figured out why they're not.
00:37:46.960 They vote and things that motivate them.
00:37:48.800 It usually tends to not be the things that motivate you, because if you're perpetually
00:37:53.000 online and I'm a little bit perpetually online, you tend to get skewed views about how important
00:37:57.740 an issue is to a normal person.
00:37:59.880 Most people, again, it's kind of just kitchen table issues, a little bit of social issues
00:38:03.980 and foreign policy is like non-existent.
00:38:06.380 Nobody cares about foreign policy.
00:38:07.680 This is why Tulsi Gabbard gets clobbered in the democratic primaries for president because
00:38:12.280 no one cares about her opinions about the Iraq war.
00:38:15.320 It doesn't matter.
00:38:17.240 Yeah.
00:38:18.320 All of this, Bernie, or sorry, not Bernie, Tulsi Gabbard.
00:38:23.740 Sorry, I lost my train of thought.
00:38:25.400 No reason.
00:38:26.660 It's my talking.
00:38:27.840 I drone on so much that everyone just starts getting...
00:38:30.120 All right, here, hold on.
00:38:31.640 I think I found it here.
00:38:32.560 No, you're right.
00:38:33.380 Right now in the United States, yeah, I'm seeing the divide between like DeSantis and
00:38:36.720 Donald Trump or whatever, the two schools of thoughts.
00:38:38.760 But what I like about it is that, okay, people are actually engaging in dialogue, though.
00:38:42.720 Like, I'm not going to lie.
00:38:44.120 I got good things to say about DeSantis.
00:38:45.700 I got good things to say about Trump.
00:38:47.000 I got bad things to say about both.
00:38:48.340 And I kind of don't have my mind made up, which is why I appreciate that dialogue is
00:38:51.900 happening.
00:38:52.640 In the PPC, in the conservative sector, there is no dialogue happening.
00:38:56.920 It's either you love Pierre to the end of time and you love the conservative party and
00:39:00.600 everything that they do.
00:39:01.960 If you like the PPC, Maxime Bernier, you're obviously a nut and you're trying to help the
00:39:05.200 liberals win.
00:39:06.060 And the same thing's happening on the PPC side.
00:39:08.200 You know, if you're not on Team Purple, like you said, if you're not on Team Purple,
00:39:11.120 it's obvious that you're a CPC show that you were working against Maxime Bernier.
00:39:14.740 And I think that stems a lot because, yeah, like you said, there's a lot of people who
00:39:18.500 appreciate the PPC, but have never actually volunteered for them.
00:39:23.520 The people that actually do, though, like they're kind of feeling silenced right now.
00:39:28.440 And yeah, that dialogue isn't being able to take place.
00:39:32.140 And they're essentially locking themselves within the cult of personality within the PPC
00:39:36.480 or the CPC.
00:39:37.920 Yeah.
00:39:38.480 And again, it's not going to be a big part of this next election.
00:39:41.540 You're going to have some criticism to the PPC.
00:39:44.740 So some PPC hardcores are going to forget who you are and then, or whatever, think you're
00:39:50.180 great.
00:39:50.520 But then you're also going to be a PPC shill for the liberals.
00:39:53.920 You're going to be accused of that.
00:39:55.080 You're going to also be a CPC shill, a liberal shill.
00:39:57.420 So yeah, we, why didn't I got this?
00:39:59.180 I've got this every election that I've been publicly covering is like, I've been a shill
00:40:03.080 of the liberals, the conservatives, and the PPC, and all three, and neither, and like,
00:40:08.200 you know, hired by whatever, whatever, by lunatics.
00:40:10.800 But again, I like, but those are just crazy people.
00:40:14.240 And I think most people are actually, you know, quite nuanced and reasonable.
00:40:17.300 So I want to ask you this, because there's a whole other element of this that I think
00:40:20.500 we've, we've touched on, but I think we should really kind of dig into right now when we have
00:40:24.280 time.
00:40:24.640 We've got another 15 minutes or so.
00:40:26.040 So what was it like getting calls and interacting with the party, like after this article?
00:40:31.720 So it's one thing to write the article.
00:40:33.000 It's another thing to get kicked out of the party.
00:40:35.460 It's a whole other thing to have the party called you after you publicly express an opinion.
00:40:41.060 And what was that like for you?
00:40:42.840 So great question.
00:40:45.360 Adrian Tsiakowski or whatever his name is.
00:40:48.020 He's the national coordinator for the PPC, called me at around 830 my time, and basically
00:40:53.860 on a phone call, immediately talked about how my article was false information, talked
00:40:59.780 about how I, I don't know what's going on.
00:41:02.400 I have no idea the complexity of everything that's going on, talked about my unprofessionalism,
00:41:07.860 talked about how I violated the party pledge that I signed.
00:41:10.820 And as a result of all of this, I was dismissed from the party.
00:41:15.000 He was like visibly angry.
00:41:17.980 If I recorded the call, I'm sure you guys would get that on his tone.
00:41:21.560 I asked him if I was the first person kicked out of the party entirely.
00:41:24.960 He said yes.
00:41:25.660 And I was like, wow, that is surprising.
00:41:29.060 A lot of people think that the PPC is the only party that's ever been infiltrated, but
00:41:33.040 I tend to disagree on that.
00:41:35.260 And I was surprised that I was the first person to get kicked out and not some of the infiltrators.
00:41:39.820 He was very rude in the sense that he kind of talked about how what I wrote in my article
00:41:47.900 was confidential as well, but he never, he can never pinpoint exactly what was false
00:41:52.140 information and what was confidential.
00:41:54.240 And I tried to get it out of him.
00:41:55.500 He just said, we're not going to go into it any further.
00:41:57.640 It's, it's talking about, it's all legal.
00:42:00.300 And we said, we had to say, this discussion is final.
00:42:03.500 Do you understand?
00:42:05.040 I kept pushing Adrian for an email because he was speaking very quickly on the phone.
00:42:09.100 I wanted to make sure I got it all down packed.
00:42:10.840 He sent me an email and Adrian's communication is very adamant that this is the final communication.
00:42:16.720 The PPC does not want to discuss anything with me anymore.
00:42:20.440 I've essentially been blacklisted and erased from the party.
00:42:22.880 You are, they are technically right that you don't know what's going on because they have
00:42:28.180 sequestered all of the information into the HQ and not let anyone know anything outside
00:42:33.940 of their little circle.
00:42:35.280 That is essentially what the PPC wants.
00:42:37.120 They want to be able to filter all conversations happening in the party through like, you know,
00:42:41.740 through them.
00:42:42.380 So this way they know exactly what's going on so they can continue to control the narrative.
00:42:45.920 But what we know is I'm not saying false news.
00:42:48.540 HLA, Hastings and Lennox Addington, they're writing publicly, backing up my article.
00:42:53.920 So what I wrote was the truth.
00:42:55.220 The PPC just didn't like it.
00:42:56.600 Wait, tomorrow is the last day that the HLA writing legally exists because Maxime Bernier
00:43:01.580 and the PPC HQ demanded that they be dissolved.
00:43:04.640 And now Elections Canada is carrying through that order tomorrow.
00:43:07.560 Again, usually the, like based on the constitution of a party,
00:43:11.480 Elections Canada would have to wait for the vote of the party's board or something like
00:43:17.460 that, some sort of transparent public vote.
00:43:19.320 But they didn't because the PPC doesn't have any of that.
00:43:22.420 So they can just unilaterally do it.
00:43:24.140 But here's another thing because you were talking about, I think you said something about a
00:43:28.240 dictatorship or maybe I'm just thinking, I'm just imagining words you're saying.
00:43:32.040 But I remember we were on Twitter the other day and this, I bring up Twitter a lot in this
00:43:35.980 stream, I'm sorry.
00:43:36.640 But we were on Twitter the other day and there were actually people defending you being kicked
00:43:41.480 out as you were one of the infiltrators and that they legitimately supported what they
00:43:48.100 considered basically like a libertarian dictatorship or monarchy in order to respect their rights.
00:43:54.240 They actually said it was the best form of government to have a libertarian dictator.
00:43:59.860 It was like the most kind of mask off moment for a lot of people of how far they're willing
00:44:05.220 to go in order to just kind of stay on brand.
00:44:09.300 Yeah.
00:44:09.460 I mean, I encourage anyone to read the article.
00:44:12.060 Like I posted it again in the chat.
00:44:13.360 It's pretty fine.
00:44:13.940 Like, again, this isn't a 45 page in-depth thesis report on the PPC that you need high
00:44:21.060 level information and knowledge to like follow along with.
00:44:24.580 It's pretty standard length for an article.
00:44:26.980 You know, it's not, it's, you know, medium size.
00:44:29.740 And like, you know, it makes it as a clear thesis.
00:44:32.860 It's good.
00:44:33.460 It's clearly written.
00:44:34.420 It's, and then makes a couple examples and, and, and makes a point.
00:44:37.960 Like nothing you're like, I don't even understand what they, like, I don't even understand reading
00:44:41.860 through what they could possibly claim.
00:44:43.560 Like you didn't know the truth of, because all this is like publicly available information
00:44:48.380 with a bit of your opinion colored in from personal experience as a PPC candidate.
00:44:54.260 So like, I don't even, I don't even understand where they could possibly draw this from it.
00:44:58.760 Like, again, it's, I, I think it's just a willfully dishonest criticism and an attempt
00:45:02.420 to silence, but.
00:45:03.680 No, that's, that's exactly what it is.
00:45:05.540 Like their goal.
00:45:06.200 I'll tell you right now what the PPC's goal is in the aftermath.
00:45:09.320 Their goal is to completely bury it, pretend that it never happened.
00:45:12.240 If you notice, Maxime Bernier has been very active on social media, talking about the
00:45:16.920 WEF, talking about the UN, all of these buzzword global globalist issues that he continues
00:45:23.860 to talk about all those niche issues.
00:45:25.620 Uh, they're going to pretend like this never happened, um, the Martin mass was the only
00:45:30.580 person who spoke on behalf of the party to an article on the Western standard.
00:45:35.060 That's it.
00:45:35.540 That's all they want.
00:45:36.840 All of the good PPC members who are following up info at people's party, Canada.ca and asking,
00:45:42.380 Hey, what happened to Anthony?
00:45:43.980 Uh, and they're not getting answered to, um, yeah, they're, they're going to continue doing
00:45:47.500 that because they don't want, they, they don't want opinions like mine out there.
00:45:50.940 They want to make an example out of me.
00:45:52.340 Um, they, they only want to continue what you, uh, again, people can't, people can't
00:45:58.500 hide behind the thing of like, Oh, it was so small.
00:46:00.480 They don't, they shouldn't have to answer anything to this.
00:46:03.420 It's such a irrelevant situation.
00:46:04.860 Like if it was so irrelevant, then ignore, uh, Anthony's criticisms.
00:46:08.460 And again, the funny thing is that if Maxime Bernier wanted to, he could have just tweeted
00:46:13.060 out, I don't know what Anthony's talking about.
00:46:15.100 We, we empower the grassroots.
00:46:16.420 And he'd probably have a mass of people saying, yes, Maxime, you're a hundred percent right.
00:46:20.160 We're all being empowered all day long.
00:46:22.360 And the thing is he could have done that, but you could tell how insecure they are.
00:46:25.540 You could tell that they knew it was true based on how fast they acted.
00:46:29.100 And also, by the way, and I just had someone actually messaged me on Twitter.
00:46:32.500 I'm sorry.
00:46:33.500 I was like the 10th time I brought up Twitter, the stream, but you can say Twitter and that
00:46:37.160 Elon owns it.
00:46:38.160 Yeah.
00:46:39.160 They just told me that, uh, that the, the PPC was calling for putting out emails, trying
00:46:42.640 to get people to volunteer in, uh, in, um, sorry, blah, Mississauga Lakeshore.
00:46:47.600 So they were putting out like effort into trying to get people to actually do work for
00:46:50.840 them.
00:46:51.220 And I just want to bring up the Mississauga Lakeshore results.
00:46:53.840 I know it was a low turnout election for everyone, but the PPC literal, oh, uh, that's
00:46:59.180 not it.
00:46:59.700 The, the, the PPC literally fell below, uh, their percentage, uh, uh, take from 2019.
00:47:07.420 I think they got like 1.3% or whatever in what, uh, 2019, they got 1.2% or 1.1% in the
00:47:15.460 2022 by election.
00:47:16.840 And I think that's, that's when, you know, the party is basically a fad party when they
00:47:23.700 have a really big moment in 2022, because there's a massive issue that is COVID that's
00:47:29.240 sweeping the nation.
00:47:30.000 And they were able to pay up, pull off 5.4% or whatever they had or 5.2%.
00:47:34.120 But as soon as that issue kind of goes away and most provinces are opened, and I know
00:47:38.780 there's still issues around mandates and mask mandates and vaccines and everything.
00:47:42.780 And I a hundred percent want all those to be solved.
00:47:45.120 I don't, I'm not, I'm not for the idea that, well, we're 90% of the way back to normal.
00:47:50.280 I'm like, no, I want it to be fully normal again, but it becomes a less serious issue
00:47:55.300 for a lot of voters.
00:47:56.340 So we're down to the point where the, the PPC doesn't actually have anything to rest
00:48:00.200 on because, and again, this is just basic political strategy.
00:48:03.380 This isn't to rank on the PPC.
00:48:04.580 This is all new parties that when you're a new party, you actually want kind of want a
00:48:08.160 base a bunch of policy ideas that people, when they think of the PPC think of, and the
00:48:13.760 thing is a lot of the stuff's in their platform, but the problem is they buried it kind of in
00:48:17.100 2020, 2021, 2022, is that it should be the party of flat taxes.
00:48:21.220 It's the party of deregulation.
00:48:23.900 It's a party of this.
00:48:24.620 And it's kind of that, but these days, again, they talk so much about kind of like globalism
00:48:29.200 type issues that all that becomes buried and it becomes a fringe party, even though they
00:48:34.380 could be easily mainstream if they just tweak a few things.
00:48:36.900 And that's the sad thing about your article is if they actually acted on the things that
00:48:40.600 you were talking about and they said, okay, let's let EDAs be more experimental with how
00:48:44.260 they operate.
00:48:44.880 Let's make sure that they serve the local area because regional EDAs, the concept of those
00:48:48.660 are ridiculous.
00:48:49.400 It does not help at all.
00:48:50.400 When you're trying to organize door knocking, a giant regional EDA that takes eight hours to
00:48:55.140 drive across is not realistic.
00:48:57.500 But if you have all this stuff together and you're actually making sure that you're, that
00:49:02.460 you're like empowering EDAs, you'd probably see growth because when 338 or whatever ridings
00:49:08.220 are all working together to try and, or at least working separately to try and increase
00:49:12.880 their membership, you are going to see gains right now.
00:49:15.540 All the EDAs essentially are supposed to stand flat footed and wait for party HQ to figure
00:49:20.020 out what they're doing, which is an inefficient way of doing it.
00:49:22.380 It's effectively why every communist country fails because everything is not going to work
00:49:27.560 as it should when you're always waiting for the Politburo to bring down its decision.
00:49:32.460 Yeah, and the other thing is like the PPC in like by elections, like you need to really
00:49:38.260 like invest, like you don't need to win, but like you need to show you can get over 5%.
00:49:42.220 Like this is where you need to really heavily invest, you know, go around, tell people your
00:49:45.800 values, like spend time in it so you can get 7% and go, look, the PPC is growing and keep
00:49:52.060 the national conversation alive.
00:49:53.140 And like, this is why we talk about, you need to invest in like one riding, do what Elizabeth
00:49:56.220 made it, find a bunch of hippies, find the right wing equivalent of hippies.
00:50:00.420 If it's BOSE, fine, go to BOSE.
00:50:02.220 If it's not BOSE, find some place where there's like enough where you find like, okay, this
00:50:06.720 is the riding where there's enough of like anti hippies, let's say, like very based hippies.
00:50:11.760 And you just say PPC, you start the cult of the PPC.
00:50:14.860 You focus on what, like you build that thing and then you say like, okay, we're going to win one.
00:50:19.480 We're going to get into office.
00:50:20.520 Cause then you show, Hey, we can actually win a seat.
00:50:23.320 Like once you have one, you're like the PPC is now a viable alternative, get more national
00:50:28.660 coverage that boosts you up a few percent.
00:50:30.700 And then you've built a base.
00:50:31.720 You can go and grow from there.
00:50:33.280 Like it sucks.
00:50:34.360 Like this isn't Europe where like parties can come out of nowhere because of proportional
00:50:37.840 representation.
00:50:38.860 Right.
00:50:39.120 If like, if this was Europe, this is a different thing, but this is Canada.
00:50:42.280 Right.
00:50:42.480 And you have to play the game as it's set to a Canadian system.
00:50:45.820 And the, like the absolute refusal to play to win in this environment, isn't that thing?
00:50:50.860 And like, yeah, they're right.
00:50:52.000 Like the PPC is good when they're talking about their policies and like conservative stuff
00:50:55.600 and pushing the conservative party forward.
00:50:58.060 And that draws people to them.
00:50:59.660 Like, that's what I liked about them at the beginning, where it's like, these are our policies.
00:51:02.580 Let's do this.
00:51:03.460 Here's what we think about taxes, whatever.
00:51:04.840 And this brings people into the party.
00:51:06.880 Like you should be saying, also in Canada, this isn't America.
00:51:09.760 You need to make a case for yourself to win.
00:51:12.580 Like you can't just say other guy bad, but instead of what they're doing is again, they're
00:51:15.700 going these fringe things that no, like no one is voting.
00:51:19.200 Like, yeah, no one outside of Mark Friesen is voting on what you say about the UN.
00:51:23.020 People want to know, like, how does your policy affect my family?
00:51:27.280 That's what they want to know.
00:51:28.400 Right.
00:51:28.660 So you go with that and then you build out from there.
00:51:31.640 But like, again, they're just rambling about the United Nations on Twitter.
00:51:34.960 And it's like, this is why they're not, this is why they're not growing.
00:51:38.780 Like, it's not just the United Nations.
00:51:40.880 It's niche issues altogether.
00:51:42.820 When the PPC first started, the niche issue of the day was the supply cartel.
00:51:47.820 We have to stop them.
00:51:48.640 Yeah, and we have to stop the globalists at the, you know, the highest level, right?
00:51:54.420 This most recent federal election came around.
00:51:56.940 The big ticket issue was COVID vaccine, COVID vaccines and passports, right?
00:52:03.340 Now, the key issue, or at least the latest key issue that I saw the PPC really going hard for, was the situation that happened in Halton Hills with the large breasted implant teacher.
00:52:15.300 Like, the reason why Bernier only goes after these niche issues, whether it be the UN, whether it be, you know, a pervert in a classroom or anything like that.
00:52:23.940 It's not because he wants to institute change in a political way, right?
00:52:27.740 It's because he wants to drive donations because that's essentially clickbait for him.
00:52:32.560 When he sends out his mailer and people see a hot topic issue that Rebels reporting on, like, for instance, Mrs. Lemieux's giant.
00:52:39.400 Like, don't get me wrong.
00:52:40.140 Those breasts are awful.
00:52:41.060 But that is not what a national party should be talking about, you know?
00:52:45.800 It's different.
00:52:46.620 The thing is that other parties have done it, and I've supported them sending out an email in general and addressing the issue of basically, like, hey, perverts shouldn't be allowed in the classroom like this.
00:52:57.320 But that's where it ends, and then you move on to something else.
00:52:59.700 It's like, in 2021, it would have been fantastic where they were like, these passports are awful, all these mandates are awful.
00:53:06.040 Also, we need to be going to a 10% flat tax so small businesses and people can actually have money to survive this inflation.
00:53:13.520 We need to be able to grow our economy at this time that it's contracted and hit stuff where people who aren't super invested in these deep political issues will understand.
00:53:23.260 And then election to election, it's always that.
00:53:25.180 And that's why we need this 10% flat tax.
00:53:26.920 No matter what the sort of big issue of the day is, you can always also draw it back to the 10% flat tax.
00:53:31.660 You can always draw it back to the fact that this is why we need to stop spending on this.
00:53:35.140 This is why we have to delete this program.
00:53:37.300 This is why we need this program and stuff like that.
00:53:39.760 That would be fantastic.
00:53:41.380 What I think is, what would, I think, Anthony, I'll let you know why do you guys agree with this.
00:53:45.240 It's like, what we're saying is not, don't get into these things.
00:53:47.440 Like, we want a political party to take a stance on certain cultural, culture war issues.
00:53:52.960 Like, let's say, you know, like, shot, like, you know, hormone replacement, hormone blockers for children.
00:53:58.840 But we don't want political parties to get into the weeds of the culture war.
00:54:02.940 Like, that's for us.
00:54:04.020 Like, they need to be, like, they need to say, like, not gaslight, like, yeah, you guys fighting this fight, you're right.
00:54:08.780 We stand with you.
00:54:09.520 And that's why taxes should be lower and, like, national issues, right?
00:54:14.320 So, you know, political parties exist to enact political change.
00:54:18.600 And, you know, it would have been great, like, for instance, the PPC, like, you know, wanted to organize some sort of delegation to speak in front of parliament or something along those lines.
00:54:25.360 Or if an EDA went out to support the parents that are advocating against Mrs. Lemieux or whatever the heck his or her name is, instead of, like, organizing a national, like, donation strategy, newsletter strategy.
00:54:38.060 Like, go door to door in those local areas based on local issues and sign people up saying, we're the only people fighting for this.
00:54:44.620 So we want to keep you informed on this issue and push to end it.
00:54:48.360 We are also from the PPC, and you can even be upfront about the fact that you're from the PPC, but because no one else is talking about this, we're organizing on the ground to mobilize parents or mobilize, you know, sort of, like, workers in this area against this thing or mobilizing small business owners.
00:55:03.720 You can do tons of little things like that, and it would be fantastic.
00:55:06.880 But, yeah, when you're only talking about the things that trend on Twitter, you're going to lose the vast majority of people who don't care about Twitter.
00:55:14.000 And the thing is, people don't forget, and this goes back to my Tulsi Gabbard example, Tulsi Gabbard is a fairly well-known person on Twitter, but the person who won the 2020 Democratic primary was Joe Biden, who couldn't trend on Twitter if he tried back then.
00:55:28.780 There were so many people who were outspending Joe Biden, who had a bigger social media presence.
00:55:33.200 Mike Bloomberg blew a billion dollars in that race and won, like, Guam or something like that.
00:55:38.280 It was pathetic.
00:55:39.260 Or I think it was, like, Puerto Rico or something.
00:55:42.280 Don't you dare insult Guam.
00:55:44.260 Yeah.
00:55:44.560 I guess that's the place that Tulsi Gabbard got her two delegates from was Puerto Rico.
00:55:49.160 But Tulsi Gabbard was shocked how bad she did because she would trend on Twitter every once in a while.
00:55:53.820 And she'd do really well there.
00:55:55.360 Her clips would do well on Twitter.
00:55:57.100 And Joe Biden, who's not on Twitter, did well because most people are not on Twitter.
00:56:01.600 Most people vote based on who their local representative is supporting, who their newspaper reported that Clyburn, Congressman Clyburn, was supporting in South Carolina,
00:56:10.660 which is why he swept that state.
00:56:12.920 A lot of stuff like that.
00:56:14.040 Like, that's how Joe Biden won the 20th.
00:56:15.640 I don't like Joe Biden, but I'm just saying that the 2020 Democratic primaries is a great example of why Internet virality is not a winning solution.
00:56:24.060 It helps, but you don't win based on it.
00:56:26.840 Yeah, Joe Biden was a household name for, like, the past four years, right?
00:56:31.040 Like, he was on everybody's six o'clock news.
00:56:33.240 Yeah.
00:56:33.900 Maxine Bernier was a household name in Boas, and then he decided not to run there.
00:56:37.940 Exactly.
00:56:38.560 To go back to that.
00:56:39.660 Yeah, exactly.
00:56:40.580 Like, Maxine, like, I honestly ask myself, Maxine, like, why don't you volunteer to coach a hockey team or something?
00:56:46.860 Like, I'm sure that's a way to get your name around in Boas as opposed to touring Alberta or touring Halifax.
00:56:52.780 Now, mind you, again, I can't, there are great EDAs and there are great PPC members all across the country that do well for their community, that push the values of the PPC.
00:57:03.780 They do so in a good way.
00:57:05.640 I just can't get over the, like, you know, I just can't help but feel that they get overshadowed by the Maxine Bernier show.
00:57:11.500 So I feel bad for them.
00:57:12.760 And, you know, one point that I really want to make is that I want to remind everybody, you don't need Maxine Bernier to stand up against freedom.
00:57:20.680 You know, I've been doing it before I was a PPC candidate.
00:57:24.360 I'm doing it now after that I'm a PPC candidate.
00:57:26.700 All it takes is a brave individual.
00:57:28.360 All it takes is just knowing your rights and knowing what you think, saying no and advocating for it.
00:57:33.960 Yeah, like, it's what I say.
00:57:35.140 Like, the PPC, like, the candidates and the people who volunteer, like, they have great NCOs, if we're going to make a military analogy.
00:57:41.500 Like, I like the NCOs.
00:57:42.620 For the most part, they're pretty well motivated.
00:57:44.680 Yeah, some are, like, crazy and going to yell things on Twitter.
00:57:47.200 But, like, the majority of them is, like, a pretty good cast of characters.
00:57:50.180 The problem is the generals and the colonels is not supporting them.
00:57:57.680 Like, these guys are fighting a war without, like, coordinated air support or anything.
00:58:03.160 Yeah.
00:58:03.320 And they just can't win.
00:58:04.300 We're going blind.
00:58:05.420 Yeah, essentially.
00:58:06.980 Yeah.
00:58:07.280 Like, there's only so much you can do as a local candidate, like, to know how to have no support.
00:58:15.140 To round out our examples about them kind of stifling grassroots is that I think a good episode to kind of distill down kind of the way that the PPC kind of chafes at the idea of a party that actually is enabling its EDAs to do their own thing and enabling their candidates to be independent and giving their members kind of rights in a certain sense is the New Blue Party.
00:58:35.320 The PPC was literally at one point in an informal alliance with Jim Carajalios' New Blue Party, which is a provincial Ontario party.
00:58:43.460 And when the New Blue Party was growing quite quickly.
00:58:48.680 And at one point, even though Martin Mass had said that the PPC and the New Blue aren't an informal alliance, suddenly they pulled back on that and said, you know what, you know, screw the New Blue Party, even though they're the most legitimate alternative party that has a constitution that has all these things.
00:59:04.380 We're going to go off with Randy Hilliard because Randy Hilliard's viral and his Ontario First Party, which didn't even get enough signatures to get properly registered and only kind of got registered like four months after the fact as the populist party of Ontario.
00:59:19.240 Like, when are...
00:59:20.040 That he didn't even run with.
00:59:21.380 Yeah, that he didn't even run with.
00:59:22.760 That shows you how flaky a lot of the top-level influencers in the PPC are.
00:59:27.460 Randy Hilliard was a top-level influencer and he couldn't gather together like 2,000 signatures or whatever you need, 3,000 signatures to be able to put his party together.
00:59:35.880 He had all the resources.
00:59:36.900 He had the resources of the PPC and he couldn't get it together.
00:59:39.660 Yet he kind of screws over Jim Carajalios by saying he's going to support the New Blue Party or saying they're in alliance with the New Blue Party.
00:59:47.440 Then switching to Randy Hilliard and then after Randy Hilliard is basically exposed as some charlatan who's just going around starting fake opposition parties to make it seem like Doug Ford's a reasonable choice.
00:59:59.800 That's when Maxime Bernier says, oh, I don't know who to vote for.
01:00:03.360 Go vote for the populist party.
01:00:04.800 Go vote for the New Blue Party.
01:00:06.020 Go vote for Derek Sloan's stupid Ontario party.
01:00:08.680 Go vote for any of them, which was a great way of trying to not act like the New Blue Party was not the most legitimate party.
01:00:15.100 And I could see Maxime not wanting to support New Blue because if he supports New Blue, he's supporting a party that actually has a constitution.
01:00:23.140 And people are going to be like, well, why don't we just copy and paste their constitution and make that the PPC constitution, which I think a lot of people would be completely fine with.
01:00:31.140 And Maxime Bernier, by basically, you know, separating himself from the New Blue, never has to be asked that question.
01:00:37.860 This is actually my favorite topic to talk about in the world, because I've been kind of in the middle of all of this going down.
01:00:47.000 So after the election, so first of all, one of my good friends throughout the election was Maggie Segunas.
01:00:53.100 She was the PPC candidate for Cambridge.
01:00:55.220 Right.
01:00:55.820 And I know firsthand how helpful Jim and Belinda were in getting her campaign kickstarted.
01:01:00.900 Right.
01:01:01.680 I also know, like just in talking with Jim, like how helpful they've been with the PPC.
01:01:07.340 I actually met Jim and Belinda after the federal election.
01:01:11.320 There was a play on hockey tournament happening at the outside the ACC.
01:01:15.840 I think we were protesting because the Toronto Maple Leafs weren't allowing people with the unvaccinated to buy tickets.
01:01:21.700 Right.
01:01:22.040 So we were a hockey tournament on Bremmer.
01:01:24.420 Jim Carajalios, Belinda are both there.
01:01:26.860 Maxime Bernier is there.
01:01:28.160 Randy Hillier was off, you know, down the street hacking a butt.
01:01:31.740 But, you know, everybody was there and we're all conversing after the election.
01:01:35.060 Like Maxime and Jim had nothing but good things to say to one another, this public appearance.
01:01:42.020 It was good to see both of them.
01:01:43.600 They were smiling.
01:01:44.320 They were taking pictures.
01:01:45.280 I got a picture of both of them that day.
01:01:46.760 Right.
01:01:47.840 And then I remember when Jim basically lambasted Randy Hillier in the jacuzzi.
01:01:53.240 I call it the jacuzzi tweets where he basically 14 tweets lambast Randy Hillier calling him controlled opposition.
01:02:00.380 I had the opportunity to ask Maxime Bernier to his face when he thought about this entire debacle.
01:02:05.960 And unfortunately, I got a lot of the same responses that we've all gotten.
01:02:10.160 Oh, do you know Jim and Randy Hillier?
01:02:12.060 They are both grown men and I hope that they can sort out their differences.
01:02:15.160 I don't feel bad impersonating Maxime Bernier's accent because I have an atrocious French accent.
01:02:21.320 So, don't worry about it.
01:02:24.320 Yeah, I was really unhappy with his non-answer.
01:02:28.100 And his mentality was Jim and Randy just basically need to sit in a room, talk it out, and shake hands about it.
01:02:34.340 I was calling him out because Randy Hillier and Maxime Bernier spent a lot of time together.
01:02:38.620 And Jim Carajalios, a lawyer, a man in good standing with the BBC, was calling him a turncoat, was calling him controlled opposition.
01:02:46.240 And this kind of ties back to the whole benevolent dictatorship thing that Daniel brought up earlier.
01:02:53.180 I'm going to point out, it's not that he was calling him turncoat.
01:02:55.520 It's like he was providing some evidence of some things that should be disqualifying.
01:02:59.620 I'll go find the article that we wrote for that.
01:03:01.460 So, it's not just like, yeah, it's type of things where Maxine is dead.
01:03:06.000 Like, if what Jim was saying is true, then he needed to get rid of Randy.
01:03:11.400 And because, like, he's not an ally of...
01:03:15.120 Effectively, what Randy Hillier does is he will join movements.
01:03:20.000 He will rise to the top of the movement.
01:03:22.060 Even though he encourages crazy and fringe actions, he will leave the movement to a better job.
01:03:27.500 And then he will call everyone else, like, before nut bars.
01:03:30.120 He literally did this in 2007 with the Ontario Landowners Association.
01:03:33.460 He would literally block roads with tractors and whatnot and hold crazy protests that a lot of the people who were part of it weren't even exactly comfortable with.
01:03:41.200 And then after he won a nomination for his area in Ontario, he basically just said, all those people are nuts.
01:03:46.420 And that's why I left the Ontario Landowners Association.
01:03:48.400 And they're like, you were the one who did it.
01:03:50.140 But Randy Hillier has always been a PPC kind of establishment shill.
01:03:54.900 He, I believe he actually endorsed Christine Elliott twice for the leadership of the party.
01:04:01.720 She's not...
01:04:02.260 Even though I don't like Doug Ford, he was probably one of the more conservative people in that last leadership election in 2018.
01:04:10.780 Yet he still endorsed...
01:04:12.300 Randy Hillier still endorsed Christine Elliott.
01:04:14.140 He's not a very conservative person.
01:04:15.960 I think he attacked people for having, like, socially conservative policies.
01:04:19.640 He really is not a super big...
01:04:22.760 He's a party guy at the end of the day who's willing to do crazy things to essentially disrupt opposition.
01:04:29.200 Well, like, yeah, you're absolutely right about his character there.
01:04:32.040 But I was kind of putting it in...
01:04:34.040 Like, yeah, I agree completely with what you're saying.
01:04:37.160 My mentality when I had this conversation with Maxime, I want to say it was October, November 2021 after the election.
01:04:43.060 I wanted to give Randy and Jim the benefit of the doubt.
01:04:48.860 I didn't know both men outside of a five-minute conversation that I had with either of them.
01:04:54.300 My mentality was Maxime has an opportunity to either A, identify a turncoat, or B, prove that Jim Carajalios is a fraud.
01:05:01.560 And his non-answer basically gave me the answer that I needed to hear, that Jim didn't say anything that wasn't true.
01:05:06.740 And as a result, like, you know, people continue talking about how the PPC is the only party that hasn't been infiltrated by the globalists.
01:05:16.740 But the reality is they've been infiltrated by controlled opposition.
01:05:20.240 Take a look at Randy Hillier in Ontario.
01:05:21.760 Take a look at Jim Torma in Ontario.
01:05:24.900 I would argue it's already happened.
01:05:27.180 So this whole mentality that Maxime needs to be at the top to only keep the good people in, it's just...
01:05:33.880 It hasn't happened in reality.
01:05:35.640 So what are we doing?
01:05:36.740 Yeah, and I'm also seeing some interesting sources where they might be getting finances from right now that, I mean, it's going to take some more looking into.
01:05:45.480 But, yeah, like, I think Maxime is pretty easy to say with money right now.
01:05:50.980 So on this note, it's been over an hour, so thanks for joining us.
01:05:56.360 People did have a question in the chat.
01:05:58.540 Biel, there's a comment.
01:05:59.960 Where can I find Anthony since he's been removed from the Purple?
01:06:02.900 So Anthony, tell the people how they can follow you.
01:06:06.080 And you have to follow...
01:06:07.260 That's after you like him, subscribe and click all the buttons for us in the National Telegraph.
01:06:10.920 But after...
01:06:11.600 Well, I'll throw his Twitter link in the chat.
01:06:14.280 If any of the five viewers here that came from my platform are following, please follow the National Telegraph.
01:06:20.860 They've been doing a great job.
01:06:22.000 I've been following Daniel Boardman even since before he got involved with the National Telegraph.
01:06:26.980 He's been doing a great job since day one.
01:06:29.280 Thank you.
01:06:29.620 Mike Claypool has been pretty real, you know, throughout this entire two years that I've been involved in political life.
01:06:35.960 So definitely got to give them a follow.
01:06:38.520 Right here, you can see my IG handle, at XammerLive.
01:06:41.680 In a perfect world, I'd be on every platform.
01:06:43.760 But right now, I think I'm the best home on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter.
01:06:49.400 Follow at XammerLive.
01:06:51.220 And that's it.
01:06:52.780 I do cool things around town.
01:06:54.900 Yeah, thanks so much for coming.
01:06:56.280 I had a lot of fun.
01:06:57.500 I like getting into the weeds.
01:06:59.660 And Anthony, thanks so much for joining us.
01:07:01.480 Thanks for writing the article.
01:07:03.520 You know, and guys, we promise if there's any crazy updates, you will hear about them.
01:07:08.400 But thanks so much for coming and have a good night.