The NXR Podcast - BONUS - A Primer On Christian Government ｜ Patriarchy - Part 3 of 6

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00:00:18.020 Hi, and welcome to another bonus episode of Theology Applied.

00:00:21.620 Once again, I am joined by Toby Sumter.

00:00:23.840 We are going over his catechism, 50-question catechism on the governments.

00:00:29.720 It deals with the government of the self, the government of the home, the government

00:00:33.440 of the church, and the government of the state.

00:00:36.520 In this episode, we are dealing with the government of the home.

00:00:40.220 We are dealing with biblical patriarchy.

00:00:43.040 We're dealing with the rights and responsibilities of men as fathers and husbands in the sphere

00:00:50.820 of the family.

00:00:52.720 Applying God's word to every aspect of life.

00:00:55.900 This is Theology Applied.

00:00:59.720 All right, let's get, let's go to the next one. So this is about family. All right. So now we're

00:01:06.140 talking about, um, the home. All right. You, you go ahead. Verse, uh, or verse, it's not the Bible.

00:01:11.940 It's close. Question 13, please. Uh, what is the sphere and assignment given by God to family

00:01:19.280 government? God has assigned the dominion mandate to families as well with the particular tasks of

00:01:26.300 providing for the basic nurture, health, welfare, and education of individuals in the household.

00:01:33.140 14. Who are the magistrates of the family? Answer. Ordinarily, God gives husbands and

00:01:40.740 fathers primary authority and responsibility for the provision and protection of their household.

00:01:46.100 Every wife and mother is the vice magistrate of the home, assisting her husband, bearing and

00:01:51.740 training up their children and ruling her home in wisdom and beauty.

00:01:56.800 15. What does the provision of health and welfare entail? The health and welfare of a household

00:02:03.660 entail the basic, ongoing, material, and spiritual provisions of love, care, friendship, intimacy,

00:02:10.840 food, clothing, and shelter, as well as the responsibility to provide for medical expenses,

00:02:15.960 disabilities retirement and inheritance 16 what does christian education entail answer parents are

00:02:24.500 required by god to bring up their children in the nurture and admonition of the lord

00:02:28.520 of the lord jesus this is a task of teaching children to love god with all that they are

00:02:35.020 in every area of life all day long but it is also the broader task of handing down the skills

00:02:41.820 loyalties, and spiritual and material inheritance necessary for the households to successfully

00:02:48.480 replicate itself over generations under the blessing of God.

00:02:54.080 17. What sanctions has God given to the government of the family?

00:02:59.100 God has given parents the authority to discipline children in the love of Christ,

00:03:03.840 both in positive encouragement and with the use of the rod of correction. Ultimately,

00:03:08.860 if a child persists in rebellion and unbelief, Christian parents have the responsibility to

00:03:14.240 disinherit him. 18. What is the duty of all people with regard to the government of the family?

00:03:21.060 Answer. It is the duty of all people to honor their father and mother that their lives may be

00:03:26.000 long in the land. All people are also required to honor the marriage bed and consider it and

00:03:32.680 the blessing of children among the highest gifts given by God to men and the basic building block

00:03:38.420 of human society. All right. This is a great section. I'm just, I'm going to lead out on

00:03:43.580 this one because some of this just excites me. Okay. So number, let's see, where is it? Number

00:03:49.900 13, I believe. No, number 15. So question 15, what does the provision of health and welfare

00:03:57.580 entail? So I definitely want us to talk about this one because basically what you're saying

00:04:01.880 is when it comes to provision of health and welfare, right? Physical provision, food,

00:04:07.420 clothing shelter these kinds of things and and health i like that you included that um

00:04:12.240 health medicine these kinds of things um what you're getting at is you're saying that belongs

00:04:17.560 to fathers familial fathers that belongs to uh the home it's going to be executed in many cases by

00:04:23.780 uh by the mother but that those decisions ultimately um fall on fathers it is not the

00:04:28.780 state's job to provide welfare i think of first timothy five so we can go there with that but

00:04:32.860 And then also I like, let's see, obviously we can talk about the distinct Christian education

00:04:39.320 and how Christians cannot utilize public schools.

00:04:42.900 But there was one other one that I want us to look at.

00:04:48.120 Yeah, well, let's just go with the welfare one for a second.

00:04:50.160 So with that, I always think of 1 Timothy 5.

00:04:52.060 So what do you hear people say all the time?

00:04:53.360 You hear people say, you know, yeah, well, yeah, the state, I think it's good that they're

00:04:58.760 doing welfare because that's, all right, so here's the false dichotomy, right?

00:05:02.540 Pro-life.

00:05:03.260 What does it really mean to be pro-life, you know?

00:05:04.800 And so, yeah, on one hand, you've got, you know, the Republican Party, you know, and

00:05:08.860 they're pro-life, whatever that means.

00:05:10.520 And I'm not, you know, the Republican Party is filled with problems.

00:05:13.740 However, we got to be careful, I think, sometimes because we're so aware of these things.

00:05:16.920 And I think sometimes you get so far down the road that you're speaking to someone who's

00:05:21.000 just brand new to politics and brand new to these things.

00:05:23.780 So I always want to remind my listeners, the Republican Party and their platform is not

00:05:29.080 synonymous with the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ, nor the law of God. However, I don't

00:05:34.880 want to do the Timothy Keller third way thing. You've got Democrats and you've got Republicans

00:05:38.840 and you have Christ. Because that implies that there's an equal distance from both political

00:05:46.820 parties to Christ. And there's not. One is way worse than the other. And just so we're abundantly

00:05:53.740 clear, that's Democrats. It's way, way, way, way, way, way worse. It is the party of transgender.

00:05:58.160 is the party of abortion is the party of murder is the party way worse that said on the pro-life

00:06:03.020 issue it's like well you know but republicans they care about life in the womb but democrats

00:06:07.620 they care about you know once you're out of the womb and immediately what's being implied there

00:06:11.600 is they're pro-life in the sense of welfare but the question is what is the jurisdiction that's

00:06:16.320 why we're doing this whole thing that's why you wrote this whole thing whose job is it to protect

00:06:20.860 life and and what we would say is welfare doesn't belong to the state but then a bunch of christians

00:06:25.960 come in and they say, okay, well, maybe it's not the state's job to feed and clothe people.

00:06:29.480 It's the church. And I would say, no. Biblically speaking, out of the three spheres of the home,

00:06:37.160 the church, and the state, it first falls on the family. It's first the family. So when Paul

00:06:42.240 writes to Timothy, 1 Timothy 5, he's given a list for widows and all that. The first criteria that

00:06:47.440 he's trying to ascertain, not before she goes on the state welfare program, but before she goes on

00:06:52.100 the roster of the church welfare program. But first he's trying to ascertain, does she have

00:06:56.320 sons? And Paul, this is crazy. Paul is even like, does this woman have a daughter? Even a daughter

00:07:02.640 that could work in that society, that would be pretty tough. In that culture, typically, you know, 1.00

00:07:07.520 sons, men would provide. But maybe there's a rare instance where she could have a grown daughter

00:07:12.700 who could provide for her needs. So does she have sons? Does she have family? Can this burden first 0.82

00:07:17.020 fall on family? And then also what Paul's doing is he's like, kind of like two categories. The way

00:07:21.680 I say it is, is she truly the poor and is she the helpless poor? And is she the faithful poor?

00:07:26.820 Right? Because Paul has something that it's not just, if you're poor, you get help. Paul has

00:07:30.960 something to say to those who are poor when it's their fault. If a man is not willing to work,

00:07:36.580 let him not eat. Right? So first we have to ascertain, is she the helpless poor? And so

00:07:41.480 Paul says, like, is she over the age of 65? Right? Like how old is she? Does she have family members?

00:07:47.840 this. And so first he's trying to decide, does she really need help? Is she poor and helplessly

00:07:55.300 poor? But then next you would think, all right, that would be enough. She's a widow. She's 65.

00:07:59.680 She's got no sons, no daughters, no nothing. Goodness gracious. Write her a benevolence check. 1.00

00:08:05.560 But that Paul goes beyond even that. And he says, okay, all right. So we've ascertained now that

00:08:09.280 she's the helpless poor. Is she the faithful poor? Did she wash the feet of the saints? 0.98

00:08:13.620 And what we've done as a church is in the name of evangelism, the church gives the bulk

00:08:18.740 of its resources to the pagans, hoping that they'll come and visit our church service

00:08:22.680 at the neglect of the faithful.

00:08:26.120 When Jesus says, by this all men will know, your love, that you are my disciples, your

00:08:30.800 love for the world.

00:08:31.980 No, your love for one another.

00:08:33.260 Or like with the church, you know, in the book of Acts, the church in Jerusalem, it

00:08:37.460 says that they brought everything before the feet of the apostles and they shared as they

00:08:42.840 distributed it as they had need so that there was no lack among them. So they eradicated poverty

00:08:49.460 in the city of Jerusalem. Nope. In the church in Jerusalem. There were still poor people in the

00:08:54.460 city, but not in the church. Josephus, even one of his quotes was, he said, it's a very peculiar

00:08:59.640 thing that a person could become rich virtually overnight simply by joining the ranks of the

00:09:04.980 Christians. But what we do today is we say, oh, you don't have to join the ranks of the Christians.

00:09:08.900 We'll make you rich at the expense of the Christians. And so my point is, Paul gives

00:09:13.900 all this criteria. Are you actually poor? Are you helplessly poor? Then next, are you faithfully

00:09:20.100 poor? Because he says in Galatians 6, do good to all, as often as you have opportunity, do good to

00:09:26.300 all, but especially, that is prioritize the household of faith. Christ is infinite. The

00:09:31.020 church is not. The church is finite and our resources are finite. So we have to prioritize.

00:09:36.740 So are they actually in need? And then are they actually faithful? Are they deserving? And so my

00:09:42.640 point is when Paul talks about the poor meeting the welfare needs, material needs, he first looks

00:09:48.000 at fathers, the home, sons, even daughters. Can a daughter pick up a paper route before school,

00:09:55.580 you know, on her bicycle if need be. And let's take advantage of every single avenue

00:10:02.280 within the sphere of the home before we burden the church. The second thing that we look at,

00:10:08.140 if the home can't do it and they're faithful and they're in the church, then they get help from

00:10:12.680 the church. And then what they don't ever, ever get help from is the state. Because anytime the

00:10:19.140 state helps, it hurts. If you want a job done poorly, have the state do it. And so my point

00:10:25.300 is, all the way back to my first point, it's a false dichotomy. Republicans and Democrats,

00:10:29.300 conservatives and liberals, they both care about life, and they care about life equally. One cares

00:10:34.060 about life in the womb, and then one cares about life outside the womb. But the question is, no,

00:10:37.500 no, no, no. What is the state's job defined by God's standard? And the job is that the state

00:10:44.960 carries the sword to punish murderers to to to um dissuade dis um disenchant murderers

00:10:55.200 by executing justice but the state does not provide uh food and clothing for for the hungry

00:11:02.520 it's not their job so when you uh when you get yeah i think you're absolutely right and and you

00:11:08.180 know you get that that claim i know we've all heard it that you know yeah uh the democrats are

00:11:14.540 the party that's you know pro-life maybe yeah maybe they they've got this blind spot about

00:11:19.100 abortion but since they believe in social services and welfare programs and everything is a government

00:11:25.020 program essentially that's somehow really that's pro-life after birth or whatever um you know first

00:11:31.320 of all i would you know we should never trust somebody who thinks it's fine to just chop up a

00:11:35.160 little baby in its mother's womb um like whatever they're doing after that uh they should not be

00:11:41.240 trusted with anything. But nevertheless, even if you say, okay, fine, you claim to be pro-life

00:11:47.920 after birth, show us what you've done over the last 70 years. Well, what have they done since

00:11:55.020 the 1940s when welfare was established and Social Security was established? Well, they've successfully

00:12:00.640 destroyed many families, especially black families, especially minority families. They've

00:12:06.920 successfully murdered them by abortion and the ones that made it through, the percentage of

00:12:12.540 incarcerations is astronomical. The percentage of suicide rates, drug addictions, and so forth

00:12:19.540 is astronomical. And so as you say, yeah, anything you give to the government, they destroy. And

00:12:26.160 that's the thing is part of the point of all this is when God assigns things to people,

00:12:31.880 he does it because he knows what they're for.

00:12:35.600 It's not arbitrary. It's not random.

00:12:37.640 It's not him just flipping coins and saying,

00:12:39.420 well, I guess I'll give this to men, I'll give this to women,

00:12:41.600 I'll give this to husbands and wives, and this to the state, and this to the church.

00:12:44.540 You know, it could have gone any way.

00:12:46.700 You know, while we're, you know, giving some helpful pointers to our brother Tim Keller,

00:12:54.860 I would say the same thing about men and women and the role of husband and wife.

00:12:59.280 I think he's got one essay somewhere that he says basically,

00:13:01.680 You know, well, they're complete equals, but, you know, you have to have a tiebreaker.

00:13:06.220 And that's what he thinks leadership amounts to, is a tiebreaking.

00:13:09.020 And I would just say, I'm sorry, brother, but you massively misunderstand what God has

00:13:14.820 done in creating men and women.

00:13:16.160 The role of husband and wife is not random and arbitrary and capricious.

00:13:20.120 It's not God saying, well, it could have been either one, but we got to have a tiebreaker,

00:13:23.760 so I guess, you know, I'll give it to the man.

00:13:26.340 No, we were made for different things.

00:13:28.880 We have different glories.

00:13:30.160 our roles stem from our nature our design exactly it's not just male and female roles he assigned

00:13:35.800 them it's male and female natures he designed them exactly and and so and so and your point

00:13:41.760 is exactly right what did god give the state he got gave the state a sword that's right which

00:13:46.080 means that whatever the state does it will always be edward scissorhands i like that that's good

00:13:52.780 right but that's that's what it has that's the that's what god's made it for its nature as you

00:13:57.900 say is a sword um uh or if you prefer uh read the book of daniel what do the empires of man

00:14:05.800 what how are they described they're beasts yeah they're monsters they have horns and teeth yeah

00:14:12.380 yeah that's that's what they are and what they do what that's what they do and so what are

00:14:18.880 beasts monsters and swords good for they're good for destroying bad guys that's right but not

00:14:24.340 raising children and protecting the innocent and they are not good for raising children they are

00:14:29.220 not good for providing health care welfare or any of these other things this is so helpful we and

00:14:33.880 so just apply the same principle i've never heard it put like this this is so good because you just

00:14:37.580 apply the same principle but now on the reverse what are mothers good for they actually are good

00:14:42.080 for raising children but they're not good for sentencing criminals right because they're going 1.00

00:14:47.220 to nurture them right back out onto the street you know and be soft on crime and so in the name 0.99

00:14:52.620 of empathy so you know so you have women doing what what women do but but outside of their lane 1.00

00:14:58.780 in in a sphere that they're not so so because you in the name of feminism right so so many 1.00

00:15:03.900 problems but just just picking one at a time in the name of feminism because women aren't actually 0.99

00:15:08.000 having children now they want to do something so that so instead of doing the thing that god made 1.00

00:15:12.300 them to do and the thing that they would love to do if they if they would just trust the lord and

00:15:15.840 do it um they're taking god's design that would be great with children but then they're applying

00:15:22.380 it to the workplace they're applying it to politics they're applying it to legislation

00:15:27.880 they're this and that and it goes horribly wrong so so they they um so you know and then so you

00:15:34.520 got the government doing the job of mothers raising kids and slashing them to pieces literally in the

00:15:40.560 womb right right and then and then you've got mothers doing the job of officials governing 1.00

00:15:46.320 officials sitting on courts, you know, and, uh, and letting pedophile files off the hook.

00:15:52.620 Makes sense. Of course, of course that would happen. Yes, exactly. And, and, and the same

00:15:57.240 thing happens, it has happened in the church as, as the church has been feminized, um, rather than

00:16:02.360 the church being, uh, the militant led, led by men, godly men, um, in, in a militant gospel ministry

00:16:10.100 in preaching the word, administering the sacraments, and disciplining those who are not

00:16:17.340 in submission to Christ, we have done the same thing there. And we have a nanny state. And in

00:16:24.660 many parts of the evangelical church, we have a nanny church that is all about soft empathy.

00:16:32.820 and it does not understand

00:16:37.100 how to wield the sword of the word

00:16:40.000 and handle the keys of the kingdom.

00:16:42.620 Yep, amen.

00:16:43.940 So what does the provision of health and welfare entail?

00:16:47.540 This is number 15.

00:16:48.440 The health and welfare of a house entail

00:16:51.040 the basic ongoing material and spiritual provisions

00:16:53.920 of love, care, friendship, intimacy, food, clothing,

00:16:57.160 and shelter, as well as the responsibility

00:16:59.760 to provide for medical expenses, disabilities,

00:17:02.260 retirement and inheritance and so you're saying um welfare provision physical and spiritual who

00:17:11.280 does that fall and and in that so that would be food to be shelter be clothing all the things you

00:17:14.640 list and it would also be education the only reason you didn't list it here is because you

00:17:17.920 gave it its own question you know because it's that important but so that includes education

00:17:22.140 all these things so um is it the state's job so we're talking about provision if we boiled welfare

00:17:26.960 down just just real simple provision so whose job is provision provision of education the state is

00:17:34.140 doing it but it's not their job and so they do it poorly um you know uh provision of food and

00:17:39.680 clothing the welfare state is doing it but it's not their job it falls on the home which means

00:17:44.420 ultimately it falls on the captain of the ship of that particular ship the home ship which is

00:17:48.780 the father and in that you included you know medicine that doesn't mean that every father

00:17:53.200 is going to be a doctor. But we can outsource, right? So you guys, I believe you send your

00:17:59.280 children, you guys are big fans of homeschooling, Christian parents homeschooling, but you send

00:18:03.000 your children to a Christian, classical Christian school. So a father can outsource, but he is

00:18:08.740 intimately involved in knowing what his children are being taught and just making that decision.

00:18:15.820 So even if he out, and so likewise, a father can outsource medicine. So he can go and shop around

00:18:20.580 and talk to doctors, just like he would go and talk to teachers. He can go and talk to doctors,

00:18:25.740 do some of his research, but then trust the professional. But there's a difference though,

00:18:30.380 that the point is that the state isn't sending the doctor into his home with a needle against his

00:18:37.940 will. He's leaving his home with his child and interrogating the doctor and making the decision

00:18:43.720 himself. Right. The question is, is who is responsible? Who's responsible? Who has the

00:18:49.240 responsibility who is the one who will answer to god for these things and responsibilities and

00:18:55.000 rights are always two peas in a pod it's a package deal so you never have god assigning responsibility

00:19:00.180 but not giving that same party that's responsible the same corresponding rights to carry out that

00:19:06.520 responsibility so the church has a responsibility what many responsible but one is to guard the

00:19:11.260 purity of its gospel witness by guarding the purity of the church exercising church discipline

00:19:16.460 as necessary, excommunication, barring from the Lord's table, all these kinds of things,

00:19:20.420 protecting the pure. I always tell our church, if our church goes liberal, it will not just be,

00:19:26.500 it will be my fault and it will be uniquely my fault, but it will not be exclusively my fault.

00:19:31.560 It will be your fault. And the reason why is because that is a responsibility that's not

00:19:35.600 just assigned to the officers of the church, although it is uniquely assigned to them,

00:19:39.680 but it is assigned to the membership of the church. But here's the deal. I can't tell people,

00:19:44.040 you have the responsibility of cleaning my house but then i don't give them the keys to get inside

00:19:48.740 so that it's you know police officers protect and serve that's the responsibility gun and badge

00:19:54.260 that that's the tools to carry it out and so to the church and i would argue the membership of

00:19:59.000 the church and the priest of all believers is given not just the responsibility to protect

00:20:03.240 her purity but the keys of the kingdom for binding and loosing tell it to the church and

00:20:09.660 And some of this is my Baptist polity coming out.

00:20:12.260 But the point is rights and responsibilities always come as a package deal.

00:20:16.880 And so if the dad is responsible for the physical well-being of his wife and children, then he has to have the rights, the power, the authority to make the decision, to make the call.

00:20:29.620 One of the things I'm working on, it's in the works, and I'm hoping maybe to get it up here in the next couple of weeks, but I am actually putting scripture references in all these answers.

00:20:40.580 That'd be great.

00:20:41.780 It's in the works.

00:20:43.340 It's getting close to done.

00:20:45.540 But sometimes people say, well, what's the scripture text for this?

00:20:50.440 You've mentioned 1 Timothy 5, which is one of the key ones.

00:20:53.000 But the other one that's actually really significant is Ephesians 5 and 6.

00:20:58.060 Husbands are required to love their wives as Christ loved the church and gave himself

00:21:04.180 for her.

00:21:05.180 And then Paul says in Ephesians 5 there, for no man ever hated his own body, but nourishes

00:21:11.440 and cherishes it just as Christ does the church.

00:21:16.280 And I think frequently in the church we, again, massively over-spiritualize that.

00:21:20.940 It includes spiritual nurture, it includes spiritual cherishing, obviously includes that,

00:21:27.820 washing our wives with the water of the word. Absolutely includes that. But notice what

00:21:31.220 Paul says. He says, it's like loving your own body. No man ever hated his own flesh.

00:21:36.400 Well, so that, you know, how do you love your own flesh? How do you take care of your own flesh?

00:21:40.200 Well, you feed it. You clothe it. When it's cold out in Idaho, you have the heat on and you have

00:21:45.840 a roof over your head. You make sure that, you know, transportation is provided for. You give

00:21:50.360 it medicine when it's sick. So don't, we should not over-spiritualize those things. We should

00:21:55.840 recognize that, and literally, actually, the words for nourish and cherish mean to feed and keep

00:22:03.440 warm. That's literally what those words mean. Feed, nourish, give food, spiritual and material.

00:22:10.200 That means your wife is right to expect you to make sure that there is food in the fridge,

00:22:17.100 there's food in the cupboards. And keeping her warm means you got to pay the heating bill,

00:22:22.820 You've got to make sure she has a jacket.

00:22:24.780 You've got to make sure that she's got a roof over her head.

00:22:28.360 And then the same word for nourish is actually used again in 6.4.

00:22:34.620 Fathers do not provoke your children to wrath, but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

00:22:39.520 That word for bring them up is actually nourish them up.

00:22:43.600 Feed them with the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

00:22:46.920 Feed them with the culture and counsel of the Lord.

00:22:50.900 And so feeding your children is part of that duty as well.

00:22:54.060 But all of this is entailed in that, you know, how does Christ love us?

00:22:58.480 He doesn't just give us salvation in our souls, but he clothes us and feeds us like he does the lilies of the field and the birds of the air.

00:23:06.920 We're not to worry about those things like the pagans do.

00:23:11.000 But nevertheless, we are to work and see that those things are provided for and trust the Lord to provide for those practical necessities.

00:23:20.000 So, those are the assignments given, and that means that, as you note, that assignment comes

00:23:25.360 with the corresponding authority and responsibility to fulfill those assignments.

00:23:30.560 Amen.

00:23:30.780 And if we want to see the government back in its own, the government of the state back

00:23:36.100 in its own lane, fathers and husbands in particular have to recognize that this responsibility

00:23:40.260 has been given uniquely to them by Jesus.

00:23:43.320 Right.

00:23:43.740 And real quick, I want to add to that with the state, so you can say it belongs to fathers,

00:23:47.700 physical provision belongs to fathers not the state so get get out of the lane of welfare state

00:23:52.700 but also with the church we could say um spiritual provision has been given to fathers

00:23:57.340 so uh quit sending your kids to children's church um you know so like in the same way that um don't

00:24:04.720 expect this the state to feed your kids physically um with the church there now i know it's not a

00:24:10.440 perfect one-to-one ratio because i know that you you know there would be some exceptions um because

00:24:15.200 the church officers in the church with ecclesiastical authority, we, we are, um,

00:24:21.500 administering God's grace through the ordinary means of grace to the whole church. Um, but my

00:24:28.020 point is, um, but, but as we administer the grace of God to children, um, it is those children under

00:24:36.800 their fathers, alongside their fathers. It's not in a, in a basement, in a back room, separate,

00:24:43.420 severed from the family um so it's it's and and so i think fathers the family first it's it's

00:24:51.020 self uh self-rule like like we talked about in our last segment but but then this family one i i

00:24:56.320 really think we always talk about how the church has failed the church has failed i think the the

00:25:00.040 out of three institutions of the home the church in the state the one that has failed um you know

00:25:04.600 maybe not most severely not not the worst failure but the first failure i really think in many ways

00:25:10.500 is, is the family. And that's, and that's why the church is bloated and the state is

00:25:15.220 super bloated. Um, because you know, we say, Oh, look at the failure of the church. Well,

00:25:20.140 the church wasn't supposed to be doing all these things. The church is overloaded with needs right

00:25:24.600 now because fathers in the home failed and the state was all too happy to pick that up. And we

00:25:30.700 blame the church and say, look, the state's doing it because the church wouldn't do it. Well, okay.

00:25:34.320 But like, let's just like, let's look at your checkbook for a second. How much did you pay

00:25:38.040 californian christian uh in state taxes and how much did you give to the church right like what

00:25:44.540 was the church supposed to do right just we don't have unlike the government we can't we don't have

00:25:49.300 a printing press where we can print money and make it out of thin air so so what you know that's not

00:25:54.620 to say there's no corruption in the church but the church has failed because the church isn't able

00:25:58.720 to pick these things up the state is able because the state the church is persuasion it's a sword

00:26:03.880 of the spirit. Whereas the state, it's a literal sword. It's not persuasion, it's coercion. So the

00:26:08.500 state, the state can always pick up the slack from any of these other institutions through coercion

00:26:13.840 by saying, give us more money. And then, oh, now we're in the business of welfare. Now we're in

00:26:19.600 the business of education. Now we're in the business, whereas the church can't do that.

00:26:23.360 We can't. So we say, oh, the state does this because the church failed that. And I would say,

00:26:27.720 no, no, no. The family failed. And then one of these two institutions was going to pick up

00:26:33.220 the slack of, of the family failing. And it, and the state was more able to pick up that slack

00:26:39.460 than the church by, by nature of carrying a sword around everything the state does. It does at gun

00:26:45.420 point taxes, meaning that at the end of the, at the end of the road, if you don't do what the

00:26:50.000 state says, eventually you end up at the point of a gun. Yeah, we've, I think there's, yeah,

00:26:54.660 you're absolutely right. I think we have seen in the past in history, the church way over bloated

00:27:00.260 Roman Catholic Church in the Middle Ages got there, claimed authority over all of life in an

00:27:06.020 absolutely tyrannical way. And so part of, you know, you see the reformers, they're called the

00:27:11.680 magisterial reformers, because central to the Reformation was actually calling magistrates

00:27:17.660 to stand up against the church, the Roman Catholic Church, calling princes and saying,

00:27:24.180 you have real authority from God, you need to take back your authority from the Pope.

00:27:28.320 Yeah. And actually, in part, it was a massive reformation of the family. There was these huge monastery breaks and convent breaks where these men and women were being broken out of monasteries and convents to get married and have families. And that was central to the Reformation, reestablishing the authority of the family over these areas.

00:27:52.600 I would say that this, you said earlier, which is, I agree with the idea that there's a Venn

00:27:57.700 diagram of sorts and there's overlap here. And so I do think the church does have the authority to

00:28:02.520 teach. In Ephesians, Paul addresses children. He doesn't just say, fathers, tell your kids this.

00:28:11.180 But as you note, he's assuming the kids are there in the assembly standing next to their

00:28:15.560 fathers and addresses wives who are standing right there next to their husbands.

00:28:20.720 But I think you're absolutely right.

00:28:23.120 If you teach what scripture says, which is that's the primary tool given to the church

00:28:27.520 is to teach.

00:28:28.560 We are to teach and to proclaim.

00:28:30.300 We are to declare.

00:28:31.880 And we have things to declare to men, to women, to husbands, to wives, to children, to parents,

00:28:38.080 to masters and slaves, the whole thing.

00:28:41.140 But when you declare those things, what you're declaring overwhelmingly, though, is husbands

00:28:45.980 and fathers.

00:28:46.640 You have responsibility for all these things.

00:28:49.700 You stand in the place of Christ in your family and therefore take up this responsibility.

00:28:55.400 And in that sense, I think you're absolutely right.

00:28:57.060 We've had a massive failure on the part of fathers and husbands in saying, no, I think

00:29:03.320 we've been lazy and I think we've been cowards.

00:29:05.500 And rather than saying, no, God made me for this.

00:29:09.420 God made me strong for this.

00:29:11.020 I'm to work hard and lay my life down as a husband, as a father in my labors in order

00:29:17.020 to provide and protect for these practical necessities and for their spiritual well-being

00:29:22.040 so that we will live in a free land.

00:29:26.620 That freedom is directly tied to fathers and husbands saying, no, this is my responsibility.

00:29:33.560 I will do it because Jesus has given me this command.

00:29:37.920 Amen.

00:29:39.380 Last brief question, but I think we've got to hit it.

00:29:42.800 in terms of, okay, fathers have the responsibility to physically provide, spiritually provide.

00:29:47.280 It's love, it's care, it's friendship, it's intimacy, it's food, it's clothing, it's shelter.

00:29:51.620 And then it's also the medical piece, you know, paying for, you know, medical expenses and all

00:29:56.660 these kinds of things. And the father has the responsibility and therefore he has the

00:30:00.040 corresponding rights. He gets to make the call with all these kinds of things. And then there's

00:30:03.660 education piece. But one last little piece that's in there that you talk about handing down of

00:30:09.480 skills and loyalties, and then setting our children and future generations up for successfully

00:30:18.820 replicating the family business and continuing to build wealth. And with that, we have the word

00:30:25.300 inheritance. I don't know of any generation other than boomers that would not be ashamed,

00:30:34.840 that would have the audacity and gall to have a bumper sticker on the back of their car that

00:30:39.280 says spending my grandkids inheritance as, as a badge of pride. Do you know, I, I feel like,

00:30:45.520 so I've, I've been reading on past American generations and I'm not trying to be, so this

00:30:50.280 is hard, right? So I, so honor your father and mother, Joel, you know, and so, uh, and my

00:30:56.360 particular father and mother haven't done some of these things. Um, but, but there is a broader

00:31:01.580 sense of general application of that command of honoring your father. And I think one of the

00:31:05.520 things that's really hard for you and I, our generation, is honoring our father and mother,

00:31:12.440 which we are commanded to do. And there is a sense like Noah's two sons, not the one who is cursed,

00:31:19.060 but the two walking in backwards to cover up their father's nakedness. There's a sense of

00:31:23.520 honoring our father. But there is also this sense of, as a minister, preaching God's law and gospel,

00:31:32.520 um the boomer generation is historically the worst generation in american history in 250 years

00:31:40.100 every institution was was conceded under their watch roe versus way their watch easy divorce

00:31:48.060 their watch um public school is good you know and and and then with that um it's not only um

00:31:57.500 we handed our children to the wolves and, and, and, and they had the benefit, right? They had

00:32:03.880 the benefit of, of in the sixties, having the sexual revolution and protesting the war and all

00:32:08.260 these kinds of things and speaking truth to power. And then, and then, you know, five to 10 years

00:32:12.500 later, walking back into those same institutions and, and a robust economy, making their millions

00:32:20.000 and then retiring, but then leaving those institutions crumbled. We are the first

00:32:25.640 generation i think millennials are the first generation in american history and since its

00:32:30.460 founding that on average will make less than its parents every generation made more made more made

00:32:36.500 more um only since the boomers um we do we have a generation set up for failure and and so my point

00:32:43.680 is throwing to the wolves in terms of abortion uh easy divorce eroding of of the family unit all

00:32:50.360 these kind of things and the cherry on top is um and i'm also going to spend their inheritance

00:32:55.860 I'm not even going to give them an inheritance.

00:32:57.520 I ruined the world.

00:32:58.620 I ruined the world that they have to live in.

00:33:01.480 I really did.

00:33:02.480 Boomers did that.

00:33:03.940 And we won't even give them an inheritance to live in this world that we wrecked on our

00:33:07.880 way out.

00:33:10.140 Obviously, I'm not a fan.

00:33:13.520 So what do you think about that?

00:33:15.680 Why is that?

00:33:16.940 Why?

00:33:17.780 Yeah.

00:33:18.220 Well, the first thing I would say is I think there's a good bit of truth to what you're

00:33:22.780 saying.

00:33:23.080 i would also say though i don't think it started with the boomers okay help me i think i think that

00:33:28.280 i think we were giving the farm away uh several generations before that um and you could kind of

00:33:36.040 there's you know there's you know you can always as a historian sort of keep pulling and you pull

00:33:41.480 the next thing and the generation i mean and it kind of goes back to adam things tend to go back

00:33:48.520 to adam yeah this is adam's fault um but i think even just in this country um i think um uh even

00:33:55.640 though i believe that um uh chattel slavery was a wicked evil um in this land i do think that a far

00:34:02.920 more was uh at stake in the civil war and the war between the states um i think uh we lost

00:34:10.680 something very significant in that war. I think you start seeing the crumbling of a Christian

00:34:19.920 notions of Christendom, of delegated powers and authorities, of a truly sort of Republican,

00:34:29.720 small r form of government, where there are lesser magistrates, where states and counties

00:34:36.420 and cities have authority i think that was starting to be lost after the civil war um i think the um

00:34:42.420 uh the the women's suffrage movement uh was a direct attack on the authority of the family

00:34:50.900 and um maybe that's a rabbit trail we don't need to go down but i would i would recommend reading

00:34:56.740 rl dabney on that at the turn of the century um he said um that he said if if we if we do this we

00:35:03.780 We are saying nationally, by giving women the vote, we are saying that families are not a unit.

00:35:13.380 Husbands and wives are not one flesh.

00:35:15.840 And therefore, politically, we are already blowing up the family.

00:35:19.660 You're right.

00:35:20.820 And that happened at the turn of the century, many decades before the boomers were on the scene.

00:35:27.440 We had rulings in the early part of the 20th century, in the 1920s and the 1930s, which said that we just did a recent interview with a guy named Jeff Schaefer, who's a former ADF attorney, spent 15, 20 years with them, is now heading up the new Institute of Law and Policy at New St. Andrews College.

00:35:54.380 and he just traced for us a number of Supreme Court rulings in the early 19-teens and 1920s and 1930s

00:36:01.980 where the Supreme Court was systematically dismantling the natural God-given authority

00:36:08.360 of the family. That was happening a generation or more before the boomers were on the scene.

00:36:15.720 I think you're right. I think because of the boomer generation, I think because of the boom

00:36:20.560 population and wealth and industry, what had the cancer that had begun in the early part of the

00:36:28.740 20th century and had been left unchecked, I think it metastasized under the boomer generation.

00:36:36.180 Okay.

00:36:36.700 But I think we already had cancer and I think we failed. I think the boomer generation failed

00:36:40.900 to do the chemo that was necessary. But I think we see the same thing and all the mainline

00:36:46.220 denominations went liberal in before the boomers they were going liberal before the boomers they

00:36:51.900 were denying the resurrection of jesus the virgin birth the inspiration of scripture uh the reality

00:36:57.520 of miracles the necessity of regeneration um that all happened in the 1920s and 1930s and 1940s

00:37:03.320 right and then as the boomer generation came on and the sexual revolution happened yeah we started

00:37:07.960 ordaining the women and homosexuals and condoning it uh at for the groundwork had already been late

00:37:13.720 Exactly. So I think we have to, I think we, I think you're right to say something big and explosive happened under the boomer generation. And that's unfortunate and sad. I think the seeds were laid much before that and it all bore fruit under the boomer generation.

00:37:30.440 um the um you know i think i think you're absolutely right though i think we are we are

00:37:37.020 sitting in the the ruins of that and and the and the bumper sticker that says you know this is my

00:37:42.620 grandkids inheritance or this is i'm spending my kids inheritance um is absolutely shameful um it's

00:37:49.000 an abomination um and um and i think you know what it it ought you know the fine print underneath

00:37:55.580 I ought to say, I'm also ensuring that my kids and grandkids will be enslaved.

00:38:01.800 That's what they're doing.

00:38:04.220 To the extent that they're doing it with any kind of intentionality or knowledge,

00:38:08.140 what they need to know is by not leaving inheritance to your children's children,

00:38:12.860 by not seeking their blessing for those that come after you,

00:38:16.480 you are saying, I want to make sure that they are enslaved, they're enslaved.

00:38:22.720 I want to make sure that they do not succeed as much as they could.

00:38:27.460 I want to make sure that they do not take as much dominion as they could and have as

00:38:32.400 much cultural impact as they could, which is all sad and wicked.

00:38:37.620 At the same time, I would say there is absolutely no room in all of that for self-pity.

00:38:45.540 The last thing in the world we need as millennials or whatever.

00:38:48.740 Is more victims.

00:38:49.580 Yeah, no victims.

00:38:50.780 Right, right.

00:38:51.440 Right. You take what you get, you don't throw a fit. So sin on, on that generation, not giving

00:38:56.620 more. But, but then, okay. But then in, like David said, the lines have fallen for me in

00:39:03.720 pleasant places. So whether you're the King, like David, right. Cause sometimes I'm like,

00:39:07.340 easy for you to say, David, you're the King. I mean, there's some big lines, you know, but

00:39:11.380 it's one thing to salute the sovereignty of God as an attribute. But we know that we're really

00:39:17.620 trusting and celebrating the sovereignty of god as an attribute when we are content with what he

00:39:22.460 sovereignly provides with his sovereign providence not just his sovereign character but his sovereign

00:39:26.900 providence and so yeah we take you take what you what you get and you don't throw a fit and and

00:39:31.300 you make the most of it and you and you trust in the god who um who who i mean because we're talking

00:39:37.300 about the god of miracles so we're talking about the god who takes you know a few loaves and fishes

00:39:41.160 and multiplies them to feed 5,000.

00:39:43.600 And so we serve the God who raises the dead.

00:39:47.320 And so on this particular topic,

00:39:49.660 what I would urge people to do now

00:39:51.560 is regardless of what you inherited

00:39:53.720 or will inherit nothing or anything at all,

00:39:57.440 recognize that the inheritance that you have in Christ

00:40:00.440 is mind-blowing and you didn't deserve it.

00:40:03.960 So the gospel drives gospel generosity

00:40:06.600 and it drives the healing of families.

00:40:09.480 At the end of Malachi says that God is coming to turn the hearts of fathers to the children

00:40:14.080 and the hearts of children to the fathers.

00:40:16.080 And if you're in a situation where you say, wow, yeah, I need healing there.

00:40:20.900 Well, this is what the gospel is for.

00:40:23.160 And what I would say is start by honoring your father and mother.

00:40:26.700 Even if they haven't been faithful in honoring and thinking about their children and grandchildren,

00:40:31.780 what does the gospel do?

00:40:33.260 The gospel is for that.

00:40:34.780 The gospel loves enemies.

00:40:36.960 you know it it gives what isn't deserved that's gospel grace and honor your father and mother

00:40:43.520 doesn't just mean send them father's day cards and mother's day cards jesus says explicitly that

00:40:48.280 what it means is it means providing for them yeah and so we ought to be immediately thinking okay

00:40:53.720 how can i provide for my my parents and my grandparents one of the ways in which i think

00:40:59.260 the curse of of of the failure of the family has been manifest in the last couple of years

00:41:04.080 is how many thousands of our grandparents and parents were in nursing homes when COVID hit.

00:41:12.440 And then through the bungling and machinations of governors and civil magistrates who confined

00:41:18.240 our parents and grandparents to those nursing homes, often infected with COVID, the most

00:41:23.340 vulnerable population we now know statistically. I mean, why is it that the mass mortality rate

00:41:30.840 has primarily been centered in nursing homes. Well, because we put our parents and our grandparents

00:41:36.540 there and, um, and we gave the authority of caring for them to civil magistrates.

00:41:43.800 Yeah. Who killed them.

00:41:44.920 Um, and, um, and, and, you know, we cannot be surprised. We cannot be shocked that so many of

00:41:50.780 them, um, died and I, I have it in my own family. Um, and, um, and that's, um, to our shame. Uh,

00:41:58.620 That doesn't mean that there's never a place for assistance, for caring for parents, but the

00:42:03.940 authority and the responsibility needs to be remain with the family. And there should never

00:42:08.460 be a position, a situation where you can't see your mom or your dad or your grandma or your

00:42:12.800 grandpa. And there should never be a situation where you could not bring them home. Um, if you

00:42:17.540 thought that was the best thing for them. Um, and the default position ought to be that as your

00:42:22.220 parents and grandparents age, um, that you would want them in your home. You would want to care

00:42:26.980 for them as long as you possibly can um jesus says um that is the fulfillment um of the fifth

00:42:33.140 commandment that's right and that you and jesus indicts any kind of religious tradition of men

00:42:38.980 that would um that would encourage to give to the church to give to the temple at the expense of

00:42:44.600 providing for your parents and that's all go ahead or social security yeah yeah and that's no excuse

00:42:50.820 you can't say well i paid into social security my parents are getting the check right and then

00:42:54.960 And that goes right back to, again, first Timothy five, where, you know, like if this

00:43:02.320 widow has children, it falls on them.

00:43:05.440 And, and explicitly what Paul says is children should learn to give some return to their

00:43:09.760 parents for this is good and pleasing in the sight of God, which is precisely part of the,

00:43:13.560 part of the reason why, why my wife and I moved our family uprooted, left the church

00:43:19.520 that I was pastoring in California and moved to Texas because my wife's parents are here

00:43:22.920 and my parents are here.

00:43:24.020 And now we're within about a 10 to 15 minute drive with both sets of grandparents.

00:43:32.160 And our children are seeing grandma and grandpa on both sides once or twice a week.

00:43:39.300 And our kids are having the time of their lives.

00:43:42.360 And our grandparents are elated.

00:43:45.000 And now we're here.

00:43:46.160 So as they age, we can help them.

00:43:49.380 You know, in California, we were living in a shoebox and we would, you know, could pack

00:43:53.520 them in.

00:43:53.740 but now we're in Texas. And so we actually live in a, you know,

00:43:56.860 we're in a first world country. Now we have a home, an actual home,

00:43:59.600 those kinds of things. And everything's bigger in Texas.

00:44:01.420 That's right. And so we're better, uh,

00:44:03.420 we're better positioned to care like what you're saying for our, our parents.

00:44:06.960 So, all right, well let's, um, I think that's super helpful.

00:44:11.280 And Toby, I know you have other things to do for the kingdom of God besides

00:44:14.760 talk to me. So we got through half of it.

00:44:16.820 So do you think maybe two, three weeks from now you would have time to,

00:44:20.280 and we could just do one more session and finish it?

00:44:22.620 Yep, let's do that.

00:44:23.600 That would be awesome, Joel.

00:44:24.460 I'd love to.

00:44:25.320 Cool.

00:44:25.560 I'll email you a couple of prospective dates

00:44:27.440 and we'll make it happen.

00:44:29.040 I appreciate it.

00:44:30.320 Wonderful.

00:44:30.920 Thank you.

00:44:31.680 Yep, all right.

00:44:32.760 Thanks so much for listening.

00:44:33.760 But real quick, before you go, do us a small favor,

00:44:37.280 take a moment and leave us a five-star review

00:44:39.660 if you enjoyed the show.

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The NXR Podcast - May 04, 2022

BONUS - A Primer On Christian Government ｜ Patriarchy - Part 3 of 6

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