The NXR Podcast - May 04, 2022


BONUS - A Primer On Christian Government ｜ Patriarchy - Part 3 of 6

Topics
biblical patriarchy government of the home pro-life and welfare feminization of church church discipline and responsibilities fathers failing fathers responsibility
Hosted by
Joel Webbon Harrison Smith Antonio Griffith Dale Partridge Wewsley Todd Calvin Robinson
Guests
Toby
Mentioned
Paul David Timothy Keller Joel Jeff Schaefer Jesus Christ Tim Keller Malachi Venn Noah
BONUS - Roe vs Wade Overturned ｜ Calling Out Big Eva Leaders By Name Who Stood In The Way! DAILY TRUTH - Reconciliation Between God & Man

Episode Stats


Length

44 minutes

Words per minute

182.05

Word count

8,160

Sentence count

420

Harmful content

Misogyny

11

sentences flagged

Toxicity

2

sentences flagged

Hate speech

36

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

In this bonus episode, we discuss the role of men in the sphere of the family, the responsibilities of fathers and husbands, and how to apply God's Word to every aspect of life. Join us as we go over the Catechism on the Government of the Home, the Church, and the State.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:00 Hey guys, real quick, before we get started, I have a small request.
00:00:03 If you've been blessed by our content and you like this show,
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00:00:18 Hi, and welcome to another bonus episode of Theology Applied.
00:00:21 Once again, I am joined by Toby Sumter.
00:00:23 We are going over his catechism, 50-question catechism on the governments.
00:00:29 It deals with the government of the self, the government of the home, the government
00:00:33 of the church, and the government of the state.
00:00:36 In this episode, we are dealing with the government of the home.
00:00:40 We are dealing with biblical patriarchy.
00:00:43 We're dealing with the rights and responsibilities of men as fathers and husbands in the sphere
00:00:50 of the family.
00:00:52 Applying God's word to every aspect of life.
00:00:55 This is Theology Applied.
00:00:59 All right, let's get, let's go to the next one. So this is about family. All right. So now we're
00:01:06 talking about, um, the home. All right. You, you go ahead. Verse, uh, or verse, it's not the Bible.
00:01:11 It's close. Question 13, please. Uh, what is the sphere and assignment given by God to family
00:01:19 government? God has assigned the dominion mandate to families as well with the particular tasks of
00:01:26 providing for the basic nurture, health, welfare, and education of individuals in the household.
00:01:33 14. Who are the magistrates of the family? Answer. Ordinarily, God gives husbands and
00:01:40 fathers primary authority and responsibility for the provision and protection of their household. 1.00
00:01:46 Every wife and mother is the vice magistrate of the home, assisting her husband, bearing and
00:01:51 training up their children and ruling her home in wisdom and beauty.
00:01:56 15. What does the provision of health and welfare entail? The health and welfare of a household
00:02:03 entail the basic, ongoing, material, and spiritual provisions of love, care, friendship, intimacy,
00:02:10 food, clothing, and shelter, as well as the responsibility to provide for medical expenses,
00:02:15 disabilities retirement and inheritance 16 what does christian education entail answer parents are
00:02:24 required by god to bring up their children in the nurture and admonition of the lord
00:02:28 of the lord jesus this is a task of teaching children to love god with all that they are
00:02:35 in every area of life all day long but it is also the broader task of handing down the skills
00:02:41 loyalties, and spiritual and material inheritance necessary for the households to successfully
00:02:48 replicate itself over generations under the blessing of God.
00:02:54 17. What sanctions has God given to the government of the family?
00:02:59 God has given parents the authority to discipline children in the love of Christ,
00:03:03 both in positive encouragement and with the use of the rod of correction. Ultimately,
00:03:08 if a child persists in rebellion and unbelief, Christian parents have the responsibility to 0.57
00:03:14 disinherit him. 18. What is the duty of all people with regard to the government of the family?
00:03:21 Answer. It is the duty of all people to honor their father and mother that their lives may be
00:03:26 long in the land. All people are also required to honor the marriage bed and consider it and
00:03:32 the blessing of children among the highest gifts given by God to men and the basic building block
00:03:38 of human society. All right. This is a great section. I'm just, I'm going to lead out on
00:03:43 this one because some of this just excites me. Okay. So number, let's see, where is it? Number
00:03:49 13, I believe. No, number 15. So question 15, what does the provision of health and welfare
00:03:57 entail? So I definitely want us to talk about this one because basically what you're saying
00:04:01 is when it comes to provision of health and welfare, right? Physical provision, food,
00:04:07 clothing shelter these kinds of things and and health i like that you included that um
00:04:12 health medicine these kinds of things um what you're getting at is you're saying that belongs
00:04:17 to fathers familial fathers that belongs to uh the home it's going to be executed in many cases by
00:04:23 uh by the mother but that those decisions ultimately um fall on fathers it is not the
00:04:28 state's job to provide welfare i think of first timothy five so we can go there with that but
00:04:32 And then also I like, let's see, obviously we can talk about the distinct Christian education 0.87
00:04:39 and how Christians cannot utilize public schools. 0.97
00:04:42 But there was one other one that I want us to look at. 0.98
00:04:48 Yeah, well, let's just go with the welfare one for a second.
00:04:50 So with that, I always think of 1 Timothy 5.
00:04:52 So what do you hear people say all the time?
00:04:53 You hear people say, you know, yeah, well, yeah, the state, I think it's good that they're
00:04:58 doing welfare because that's, all right, so here's the false dichotomy, right?
00:05:02 Pro-life.
00:05:03 What does it really mean to be pro-life, you know?
00:05:04 And so, yeah, on one hand, you've got, you know, the Republican Party, you know, and
00:05:08 they're pro-life, whatever that means.
00:05:10 And I'm not, you know, the Republican Party is filled with problems.
00:05:13 However, we got to be careful, I think, sometimes because we're so aware of these things.
00:05:16 And I think sometimes you get so far down the road that you're speaking to someone who's
00:05:21 just brand new to politics and brand new to these things.
00:05:23 So I always want to remind my listeners, the Republican Party and their platform is not
00:05:29 synonymous with the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ, nor the law of God. However, I don't
00:05:34 want to do the Timothy Keller third way thing. You've got Democrats and you've got Republicans
00:05:38 and you have Christ. Because that implies that there's an equal distance from both political
00:05:46 parties to Christ. And there's not. One is way worse than the other. And just so we're abundantly
00:05:53 clear, that's Democrats. It's way, way, way, way, way, way worse. It is the party of transgender.
00:05:58 is the party of abortion is the party of murder is the party way worse that said on the pro-life 0.97
00:06:03 issue it's like well you know but republicans they care about life in the womb but democrats
00:06:07 they care about you know once you're out of the womb and immediately what's being implied there
00:06:11 is they're pro-life in the sense of welfare but the question is what is the jurisdiction that's
00:06:16 why we're doing this whole thing that's why you wrote this whole thing whose job is it to protect
00:06:20 life and and what we would say is welfare doesn't belong to the state but then a bunch of christians
00:06:25 come in and they say, okay, well, maybe it's not the state's job to feed and clothe people.
00:06:29 It's the church. And I would say, no. Biblically speaking, out of the three spheres of the home,
00:06:37 the church, and the state, it first falls on the family. It's first the family. So when Paul 0.84
00:06:42 writes to Timothy, 1 Timothy 5, he's given a list for widows and all that. The first criteria that
00:06:47 he's trying to ascertain, not before she goes on the state welfare program, but before she goes on
00:06:52 the roster of the church welfare program. But first he's trying to ascertain, does she have
00:06:56 sons? And Paul, this is crazy. Paul is even like, does this woman have a daughter? Even a daughter
00:07:02 that could work in that society, that would be pretty tough. In that culture, typically, you know, 1.00
00:07:07 sons, men would provide. But maybe there's a rare instance where she could have a grown daughter
00:07:12 who could provide for her needs. So does she have sons? Does she have family? Can this burden first 0.82
00:07:17 fall on family? And then also what Paul's doing is he's like, kind of like two categories. The way
00:07:21 I say it is, is she truly the poor and is she the helpless poor? And is she the faithful poor?
00:07:26 Right? Because Paul has something that it's not just, if you're poor, you get help. Paul has
00:07:30 something to say to those who are poor when it's their fault. If a man is not willing to work,
00:07:36 let him not eat. Right? So first we have to ascertain, is she the helpless poor? And so 0.99
00:07:41 Paul says, like, is she over the age of 65? Right? Like how old is she? Does she have family members?
00:07:47 this. And so first he's trying to decide, does she really need help? Is she poor and helplessly
00:07:55 poor? But then next you would think, all right, that would be enough. She's a widow. She's 65.
00:07:59 She's got no sons, no daughters, no nothing. Goodness gracious. Write her a benevolence check. 1.00
00:08:05 But that Paul goes beyond even that. And he says, okay, all right. So we've ascertained now that
00:08:09 she's the helpless poor. Is she the faithful poor? Did she wash the feet of the saints? 0.98
00:08:13 And what we've done as a church is in the name of evangelism, the church gives the bulk 0.67
00:08:18 of its resources to the pagans, hoping that they'll come and visit our church service
00:08:22 at the neglect of the faithful.
00:08:26 When Jesus says, by this all men will know, your love, that you are my disciples, your
00:08:30 love for the world.
00:08:31 No, your love for one another.
00:08:33 Or like with the church, you know, in the book of Acts, the church in Jerusalem, it
00:08:37 says that they brought everything before the feet of the apostles and they shared as they
00:08:42 distributed it as they had need so that there was no lack among them. So they eradicated poverty
00:08:49 in the city of Jerusalem. Nope. In the church in Jerusalem. There were still poor people in the
00:08:54 city, but not in the church. Josephus, even one of his quotes was, he said, it's a very peculiar
00:08:59 thing that a person could become rich virtually overnight simply by joining the ranks of the
00:09:04 Christians. But what we do today is we say, oh, you don't have to join the ranks of the Christians. 0.76
00:09:08 We'll make you rich at the expense of the Christians. And so my point is, Paul gives 0.98
00:09:13 all this criteria. Are you actually poor? Are you helplessly poor? Then next, are you faithfully
00:09:20 poor? Because he says in Galatians 6, do good to all, as often as you have opportunity, do good to
00:09:26 all, but especially, that is prioritize the household of faith. Christ is infinite. The
00:09:31 church is not. The church is finite and our resources are finite. So we have to prioritize.
00:09:36 So are they actually in need? And then are they actually faithful? Are they deserving? And so my
00:09:42 point is when Paul talks about the poor meeting the welfare needs, material needs, he first looks
00:09:48 at fathers, the home, sons, even daughters. Can a daughter pick up a paper route before school,
00:09:55 you know, on her bicycle if need be. And let's take advantage of every single avenue
00:10:02 within the sphere of the home before we burden the church. The second thing that we look at,
00:10:08 if the home can't do it and they're faithful and they're in the church, then they get help from
00:10:12 the church. And then what they don't ever, ever get help from is the state. Because anytime the
00:10:19 state helps, it hurts. If you want a job done poorly, have the state do it. And so my point
00:10:25 is, all the way back to my first point, it's a false dichotomy. Republicans and Democrats,
00:10:29 conservatives and liberals, they both care about life, and they care about life equally. One cares
00:10:34 about life in the womb, and then one cares about life outside the womb. But the question is, no, 0.57
00:10:37 no, no, no. What is the state's job defined by God's standard? And the job is that the state
00:10:44 carries the sword to punish murderers to to to um dissuade dis um disenchant murderers
00:10:55 by executing justice but the state does not provide uh food and clothing for for the hungry
00:11:02 it's not their job so when you uh when you get yeah i think you're absolutely right and and you
00:11:08 know you get that that claim i know we've all heard it that you know yeah uh the democrats are
00:11:14 the party that's you know pro-life maybe yeah maybe they they've got this blind spot about
00:11:19 abortion but since they believe in social services and welfare programs and everything is a government
00:11:25 program essentially that's somehow really that's pro-life after birth or whatever um you know first
00:11:31 of all i would you know we should never trust somebody who thinks it's fine to just chop up a
00:11:35 little baby in its mother's womb um like whatever they're doing after that uh they should not be
00:11:41 trusted with anything. But nevertheless, even if you say, okay, fine, you claim to be pro-life
00:11:47 after birth, show us what you've done over the last 70 years. Well, what have they done since
00:11:55 the 1940s when welfare was established and Social Security was established? Well, they've successfully
00:12:00 destroyed many families, especially black families, especially minority families. They've 1.00
00:12:06 successfully murdered them by abortion and the ones that made it through, the percentage of
00:12:12 incarcerations is astronomical. The percentage of suicide rates, drug addictions, and so forth
00:12:19 is astronomical. And so as you say, yeah, anything you give to the government, they destroy. And
00:12:26 that's the thing is part of the point of all this is when God assigns things to people,
00:12:31 he does it because he knows what they're for.
00:12:35 It's not arbitrary. It's not random.
00:12:37 It's not him just flipping coins and saying,
00:12:39 well, I guess I'll give this to men, I'll give this to women,
00:12:41 I'll give this to husbands and wives, and this to the state, and this to the church.
00:12:44 You know, it could have gone any way.
00:12:46 You know, while we're, you know, giving some helpful pointers to our brother Tim Keller,
00:12:54 I would say the same thing about men and women and the role of husband and wife.
00:12:59 I think he's got one essay somewhere that he says basically,
00:13:01 You know, well, they're complete equals, but, you know, you have to have a tiebreaker.
00:13:06 And that's what he thinks leadership amounts to, is a tiebreaking.
00:13:09 And I would just say, I'm sorry, brother, but you massively misunderstand what God has
00:13:14 done in creating men and women.
00:13:16 The role of husband and wife is not random and arbitrary and capricious.
00:13:20 It's not God saying, well, it could have been either one, but we got to have a tiebreaker,
00:13:23 so I guess, you know, I'll give it to the man.
00:13:26 No, we were made for different things.
00:13:28 We have different glories.
00:13:30 our roles stem from our nature our design exactly it's not just male and female roles he assigned
00:13:35 them it's male and female natures he designed them exactly and and so and so and your point
00:13:41 is exactly right what did god give the state he got gave the state a sword that's right which
00:13:46 means that whatever the state does it will always be edward scissorhands i like that that's good
00:13:52 right but that's that's what it has that's the that's what god's made it for its nature as you
00:13:57 say is a sword um uh or if you prefer uh read the book of daniel what do the empires of man
00:14:05 what how are they described they're beasts yeah they're monsters they have horns and teeth yeah
00:14:12 yeah that's that's what they are and what they do what that's what they do and so what are
00:14:18 beasts monsters and swords good for they're good for destroying bad guys that's right but not
00:14:24 raising children and protecting the innocent and they are not good for raising children they are
00:14:29 not good for providing health care welfare or any of these other things this is so helpful we and
00:14:33 so just apply the same principle i've never heard it put like this this is so good because you just
00:14:37 apply the same principle but now on the reverse what are mothers good for they actually are good
00:14:42 for raising children but they're not good for sentencing criminals right because they're going 1.00
00:14:47 to nurture them right back out onto the street you know and be soft on crime and so in the name 0.99
00:14:52 of empathy so you know so you have women doing what what women do but but outside of their lane 1.00
00:14:58 in in a sphere that they're not so so because you in the name of feminism right so so many 1.00
00:15:03 problems but just just picking one at a time in the name of feminism because women aren't actually 0.99
00:15:08 having children now they want to do something so that so instead of doing the thing that god made 1.00
00:15:12 them to do and the thing that they would love to do if they if they would just trust the lord and
00:15:15 do it um they're taking god's design that would be great with children but then they're applying
00:15:22 it to the workplace they're applying it to politics they're applying it to legislation
00:15:27 they're this and that and it goes horribly wrong so so they they um so you know and then so you
00:15:34 got the government doing the job of mothers raising kids and slashing them to pieces literally in the 0.75
00:15:40 womb right right and then and then you've got mothers doing the job of officials governing 1.00
00:15:46 officials sitting on courts, you know, and, uh, and letting pedophile files off the hook. 0.57
00:15:52 Makes sense. Of course, of course that would happen. Yes, exactly. And, and, and the same
00:15:57 thing happens, it has happened in the church as, as the church has been feminized, um, rather than
00:16:02 the church being, uh, the militant led, led by men, godly men, um, in, in a militant gospel ministry
00:16:10 in preaching the word, administering the sacraments, and disciplining those who are not
00:16:17 in submission to Christ, we have done the same thing there. And we have a nanny state. And in 0.61
00:16:24 many parts of the evangelical church, we have a nanny church that is all about soft empathy.
00:16:32 and it does not understand
00:16:37 how to wield the sword of the word
00:16:40 and handle the keys of the kingdom.
00:16:42 Yep, amen.
00:16:43 So what does the provision of health and welfare entail?
00:16:47 This is number 15.
00:16:48 The health and welfare of a house entail
00:16:51 the basic ongoing material and spiritual provisions
00:16:53 of love, care, friendship, intimacy, food, clothing,
00:16:57 and shelter, as well as the responsibility
00:16:59 to provide for medical expenses, disabilities,
00:17:02 retirement and inheritance and so you're saying um welfare provision physical and spiritual who
00:17:11 does that fall and and in that so that would be food to be shelter be clothing all the things you
00:17:14 list and it would also be education the only reason you didn't list it here is because you
00:17:17 gave it its own question you know because it's that important but so that includes education
00:17:22 all these things so um is it the state's job so we're talking about provision if we boiled welfare
00:17:26 down just just real simple provision so whose job is provision provision of education the state is
00:17:34 doing it but it's not their job and so they do it poorly um you know uh provision of food and
00:17:39 clothing the welfare state is doing it but it's not their job it falls on the home which means
00:17:44 ultimately it falls on the captain of the ship of that particular ship the home ship which is
00:17:48 the father and in that you included you know medicine that doesn't mean that every father
00:17:53 is going to be a doctor. But we can outsource, right? So you guys, I believe you send your
00:17:59 children, you guys are big fans of homeschooling, Christian parents homeschooling, but you send
00:18:03 your children to a Christian, classical Christian school. So a father can outsource, but he is
00:18:08 intimately involved in knowing what his children are being taught and just making that decision.
00:18:15 So even if he out, and so likewise, a father can outsource medicine. So he can go and shop around
00:18:20 and talk to doctors, just like he would go and talk to teachers. He can go and talk to doctors,
00:18:25 do some of his research, but then trust the professional. But there's a difference though,
00:18:30 that the point is that the state isn't sending the doctor into his home with a needle against his
00:18:37 will. He's leaving his home with his child and interrogating the doctor and making the decision
00:18:43 himself. Right. The question is, is who is responsible? Who's responsible? Who has the
00:18:49 responsibility who is the one who will answer to god for these things and responsibilities and
00:18:55 rights are always two peas in a pod it's a package deal so you never have god assigning responsibility
00:19:00 but not giving that same party that's responsible the same corresponding rights to carry out that
00:19:06 responsibility so the church has a responsibility what many responsible but one is to guard the
00:19:11 purity of its gospel witness by guarding the purity of the church exercising church discipline
00:19:16 as necessary, excommunication, barring from the Lord's table, all these kinds of things,
00:19:20 protecting the pure. I always tell our church, if our church goes liberal, it will not just be,
00:19:26 it will be my fault and it will be uniquely my fault, but it will not be exclusively my fault.
00:19:31 It will be your fault. And the reason why is because that is a responsibility that's not
00:19:35 just assigned to the officers of the church, although it is uniquely assigned to them,
00:19:39 but it is assigned to the membership of the church. But here's the deal. I can't tell people,
00:19:44 you have the responsibility of cleaning my house but then i don't give them the keys to get inside
00:19:48 so that it's you know police officers protect and serve that's the responsibility gun and badge
00:19:54 that that's the tools to carry it out and so to the church and i would argue the membership of
00:19:59 the church and the priest of all believers is given not just the responsibility to protect
00:20:03 her purity but the keys of the kingdom for binding and loosing tell it to the church and
00:20:09 And some of this is my Baptist polity coming out.
00:20:12 But the point is rights and responsibilities always come as a package deal.
00:20:16 And so if the dad is responsible for the physical well-being of his wife and children, then he has to have the rights, the power, the authority to make the decision, to make the call.
00:20:29 One of the things I'm working on, it's in the works, and I'm hoping maybe to get it up here in the next couple of weeks, but I am actually putting scripture references in all these answers.
00:20:40 That'd be great.
00:20:41 It's in the works.
00:20:43 It's getting close to done.
00:20:45 But sometimes people say, well, what's the scripture text for this?
00:20:50 You've mentioned 1 Timothy 5, which is one of the key ones.
00:20:53 But the other one that's actually really significant is Ephesians 5 and 6.
00:20:58 Husbands are required to love their wives as Christ loved the church and gave himself
00:21:04 for her.
00:21:05 And then Paul says in Ephesians 5 there, for no man ever hated his own body, but nourishes
00:21:11 and cherishes it just as Christ does the church.
00:21:16 And I think frequently in the church we, again, massively over-spiritualize that.
00:21:20 It includes spiritual nurture, it includes spiritual cherishing, obviously includes that,
00:21:27 washing our wives with the water of the word. Absolutely includes that. But notice what
00:21:31 Paul says. He says, it's like loving your own body. No man ever hated his own flesh.
00:21:36 Well, so that, you know, how do you love your own flesh? How do you take care of your own flesh?
00:21:40 Well, you feed it. You clothe it. When it's cold out in Idaho, you have the heat on and you have
00:21:45 a roof over your head. You make sure that, you know, transportation is provided for. You give
00:21:50 it medicine when it's sick. So don't, we should not over-spiritualize those things. We should
00:21:55 recognize that, and literally, actually, the words for nourish and cherish mean to feed and keep
00:22:03 warm. That's literally what those words mean. Feed, nourish, give food, spiritual and material.
00:22:10 That means your wife is right to expect you to make sure that there is food in the fridge,
00:22:17 there's food in the cupboards. And keeping her warm means you got to pay the heating bill,
00:22:22 You've got to make sure she has a jacket.
00:22:24 You've got to make sure that she's got a roof over her head.
00:22:28 And then the same word for nourish is actually used again in 6.4.
00:22:34 Fathers do not provoke your children to wrath, but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.
00:22:39 That word for bring them up is actually nourish them up.
00:22:43 Feed them with the nurture and admonition of the Lord.
00:22:46 Feed them with the culture and counsel of the Lord.
00:22:50 And so feeding your children is part of that duty as well.
00:22:54 But all of this is entailed in that, you know, how does Christ love us?
00:22:58 He doesn't just give us salvation in our souls, but he clothes us and feeds us like he does the lilies of the field and the birds of the air.
00:23:06 We're not to worry about those things like the pagans do.
00:23:11 But nevertheless, we are to work and see that those things are provided for and trust the Lord to provide for those practical necessities.
00:23:20 So, those are the assignments given, and that means that, as you note, that assignment comes
00:23:25 with the corresponding authority and responsibility to fulfill those assignments.
00:23:30 Amen.
00:23:30 And if we want to see the government back in its own, the government of the state back
00:23:36 in its own lane, fathers and husbands in particular have to recognize that this responsibility
00:23:40 has been given uniquely to them by Jesus.
00:23:43 Right.
00:23:43 And real quick, I want to add to that with the state, so you can say it belongs to fathers,
00:23:47 physical provision belongs to fathers not the state so get get out of the lane of welfare state
00:23:52 but also with the church we could say um spiritual provision has been given to fathers
00:23:57 so uh quit sending your kids to children's church um you know so like in the same way that um don't
00:24:04 expect this the state to feed your kids physically um with the church there now i know it's not a
00:24:10 perfect one-to-one ratio because i know that you you know there would be some exceptions um because
00:24:15 the church officers in the church with ecclesiastical authority, we, we are, um,
00:24:21 administering God's grace through the ordinary means of grace to the whole church. Um, but my
00:24:28 point is, um, but, but as we administer the grace of God to children, um, it is those children under
00:24:36 their fathers, alongside their fathers. It's not in a, in a basement, in a back room, separate,
00:24:43 severed from the family um so it's it's and and so i think fathers the family first it's it's
00:24:51 self uh self-rule like like we talked about in our last segment but but then this family one i i
00:24:56 really think we always talk about how the church has failed the church has failed i think the the
00:25:00 out of three institutions of the home the church in the state the one that has failed um you know
00:25:04 maybe not most severely not not the worst failure but the first failure i really think in many ways
00:25:10 is, is the family. And that's, and that's why the church is bloated and the state is
00:25:15 super bloated. Um, because you know, we say, Oh, look at the failure of the church. Well,
00:25:20 the church wasn't supposed to be doing all these things. The church is overloaded with needs right
00:25:24 now because fathers in the home failed and the state was all too happy to pick that up. And we
00:25:30 blame the church and say, look, the state's doing it because the church wouldn't do it. Well, okay.
00:25:34 But like, let's just like, let's look at your checkbook for a second. How much did you pay
00:25:38 californian christian uh in state taxes and how much did you give to the church right like what
00:25:44 was the church supposed to do right just we don't have unlike the government we can't we don't have
00:25:49 a printing press where we can print money and make it out of thin air so so what you know that's not
00:25:54 to say there's no corruption in the church but the church has failed because the church isn't able
00:25:58 to pick these things up the state is able because the state the church is persuasion it's a sword
00:26:03 of the spirit. Whereas the state, it's a literal sword. It's not persuasion, it's coercion. So the
00:26:08 state, the state can always pick up the slack from any of these other institutions through coercion
00:26:13 by saying, give us more money. And then, oh, now we're in the business of welfare. Now we're in
00:26:19 the business of education. Now we're in the business, whereas the church can't do that.
00:26:23 We can't. So we say, oh, the state does this because the church failed that. And I would say,
00:26:27 no, no, no. The family failed. And then one of these two institutions was going to pick up
00:26:33 the slack of, of the family failing. And it, and the state was more able to pick up that slack
00:26:39 than the church by, by nature of carrying a sword around everything the state does. It does at gun 0.76
00:26:45 point taxes, meaning that at the end of the, at the end of the road, if you don't do what the
00:26:50 state says, eventually you end up at the point of a gun. Yeah, we've, I think there's, yeah,
00:26:54 you're absolutely right. I think we have seen in the past in history, the church way over bloated
00:27:00 Roman Catholic Church in the Middle Ages got there, claimed authority over all of life in an 0.97
00:27:06 absolutely tyrannical way. And so part of, you know, you see the reformers, they're called the 0.96
00:27:11 magisterial reformers, because central to the Reformation was actually calling magistrates
00:27:17 to stand up against the church, the Roman Catholic Church, calling princes and saying,
00:27:24 you have real authority from God, you need to take back your authority from the Pope.
00:27:28 Yeah. And actually, in part, it was a massive reformation of the family. There was these huge monastery breaks and convent breaks where these men and women were being broken out of monasteries and convents to get married and have families. And that was central to the Reformation, reestablishing the authority of the family over these areas.
00:27:52 I would say that this, you said earlier, which is, I agree with the idea that there's a Venn
00:27:57 diagram of sorts and there's overlap here. And so I do think the church does have the authority to
00:28:02 teach. In Ephesians, Paul addresses children. He doesn't just say, fathers, tell your kids this.
00:28:11 But as you note, he's assuming the kids are there in the assembly standing next to their
00:28:15 fathers and addresses wives who are standing right there next to their husbands. 0.84
00:28:20 But I think you're absolutely right.
00:28:23 If you teach what scripture says, which is that's the primary tool given to the church
00:28:27 is to teach.
00:28:28 We are to teach and to proclaim.
00:28:30 We are to declare.
00:28:31 And we have things to declare to men, to women, to husbands, to wives, to children, to parents,
00:28:38 to masters and slaves, the whole thing.
00:28:41 But when you declare those things, what you're declaring overwhelmingly, though, is husbands
00:28:45 and fathers.
00:28:46 You have responsibility for all these things.
00:28:49 You stand in the place of Christ in your family and therefore take up this responsibility.
00:28:55 And in that sense, I think you're absolutely right.
00:28:57 We've had a massive failure on the part of fathers and husbands in saying, no, I think
00:29:03 we've been lazy and I think we've been cowards.
00:29:05 And rather than saying, no, God made me for this.
00:29:09 God made me strong for this.
00:29:11 I'm to work hard and lay my life down as a husband, as a father in my labors in order
00:29:17 to provide and protect for these practical necessities and for their spiritual well-being
00:29:22 so that we will live in a free land.
00:29:26 That freedom is directly tied to fathers and husbands saying, no, this is my responsibility.
00:29:33 I will do it because Jesus has given me this command.
00:29:37 Amen.
00:29:39 Last brief question, but I think we've got to hit it.
00:29:42 in terms of, okay, fathers have the responsibility to physically provide, spiritually provide.
00:29:47 It's love, it's care, it's friendship, it's intimacy, it's food, it's clothing, it's shelter.
00:29:51 And then it's also the medical piece, you know, paying for, you know, medical expenses and all
00:29:56 these kinds of things. And the father has the responsibility and therefore he has the
00:30:00 corresponding rights. He gets to make the call with all these kinds of things. And then there's
00:30:03 education piece. But one last little piece that's in there that you talk about handing down of
00:30:09 skills and loyalties, and then setting our children and future generations up for successfully
00:30:18 replicating the family business and continuing to build wealth. And with that, we have the word
00:30:25 inheritance. I don't know of any generation other than boomers that would not be ashamed, 0.88
00:30:34 that would have the audacity and gall to have a bumper sticker on the back of their car that
00:30:39 says spending my grandkids inheritance as, as a badge of pride. Do you know, I, I feel like,
00:30:45 so I've, I've been reading on past American generations and I'm not trying to be, so this
00:30:50 is hard, right? So I, so honor your father and mother, Joel, you know, and so, uh, and my
00:30:56 particular father and mother haven't done some of these things. Um, but, but there is a broader
00:31:01 sense of general application of that command of honoring your father. And I think one of the
00:31:05 things that's really hard for you and I, our generation, is honoring our father and mother,
00:31:12 which we are commanded to do. And there is a sense like Noah's two sons, not the one who is cursed,
00:31:19 but the two walking in backwards to cover up their father's nakedness. There's a sense of
00:31:23 honoring our father. But there is also this sense of, as a minister, preaching God's law and gospel,
00:31:32 um the boomer generation is historically the worst generation in american history in 250 years 0.67
00:31:40 every institution was was conceded under their watch roe versus way their watch easy divorce
00:31:48 their watch um public school is good you know and and and then with that um it's not only um
00:31:57 we handed our children to the wolves and, and, and, and they had the benefit, right? They had
00:32:03 the benefit of, of in the sixties, having the sexual revolution and protesting the war and all
00:32:08 these kinds of things and speaking truth to power. And then, and then, you know, five to 10 years
00:32:12 later, walking back into those same institutions and, and a robust economy, making their millions
00:32:20 and then retiring, but then leaving those institutions crumbled. We are the first
00:32:25 generation i think millennials are the first generation in american history and since its
00:32:30 founding that on average will make less than its parents every generation made more made more made
00:32:36 more um only since the boomers um we do we have a generation set up for failure and and so my point
00:32:43 is throwing to the wolves in terms of abortion uh easy divorce eroding of of the family unit all
00:32:50 these kind of things and the cherry on top is um and i'm also going to spend their inheritance
00:32:55 I'm not even going to give them an inheritance.
00:32:57 I ruined the world.
00:32:58 I ruined the world that they have to live in.
00:33:01 I really did. 1.00
00:33:02 Boomers did that.
00:33:03 And we won't even give them an inheritance to live in this world that we wrecked on our 1.00
00:33:07 way out.
00:33:10 Obviously, I'm not a fan.
00:33:13 So what do you think about that?
00:33:15 Why is that?
00:33:16 Why?
00:33:17 Yeah.
00:33:18 Well, the first thing I would say is I think there's a good bit of truth to what you're
00:33:22 saying.
00:33:23 i would also say though i don't think it started with the boomers okay help me i think i think that
00:33:28 i think we were giving the farm away uh several generations before that um and you could kind of
00:33:36 there's you know there's you know you can always as a historian sort of keep pulling and you pull
00:33:41 the next thing and the generation i mean and it kind of goes back to adam things tend to go back
00:33:48 to adam yeah this is adam's fault um but i think even just in this country um i think um uh even
00:33:55 though i believe that um uh chattel slavery was a wicked evil um in this land i do think that a far
00:34:02 more was uh at stake in the civil war and the war between the states um i think uh we lost
00:34:10 something very significant in that war. I think you start seeing the crumbling of a Christian 0.97
00:34:19 notions of Christendom, of delegated powers and authorities, of a truly sort of Republican,
00:34:29 small r form of government, where there are lesser magistrates, where states and counties
00:34:36 and cities have authority i think that was starting to be lost after the civil war um i think the um
00:34:42 uh the the women's suffrage movement uh was a direct attack on the authority of the family
00:34:50 and um maybe that's a rabbit trail we don't need to go down but i would i would recommend reading
00:34:56 rl dabney on that at the turn of the century um he said um that he said if if we if we do this we
00:35:03 We are saying nationally, by giving women the vote, we are saying that families are not a unit.
00:35:13 Husbands and wives are not one flesh. 0.85
00:35:15 And therefore, politically, we are already blowing up the family.
00:35:19 You're right. 0.95
00:35:20 And that happened at the turn of the century, many decades before the boomers were on the scene.
00:35:27 We had rulings in the early part of the 20th century, in the 1920s and the 1930s, which said that we just did a recent interview with a guy named Jeff Schaefer, who's a former ADF attorney, spent 15, 20 years with them, is now heading up the new Institute of Law and Policy at New St. Andrews College.
00:35:54 and he just traced for us a number of Supreme Court rulings in the early 19-teens and 1920s and 1930s
00:36:01 where the Supreme Court was systematically dismantling the natural God-given authority
00:36:08 of the family. That was happening a generation or more before the boomers were on the scene.
00:36:15 I think you're right. I think because of the boomer generation, I think because of the boom
00:36:20 population and wealth and industry, what had the cancer that had begun in the early part of the
00:36:28 20th century and had been left unchecked, I think it metastasized under the boomer generation. 0.80
00:36:36 Okay. 0.83
00:36:36 But I think we already had cancer and I think we failed. I think the boomer generation failed 1.00
00:36:40 to do the chemo that was necessary. But I think we see the same thing and all the mainline
00:36:46 denominations went liberal in before the boomers they were going liberal before the boomers they
00:36:51 were denying the resurrection of jesus the virgin birth the inspiration of scripture uh the reality
00:36:57 of miracles the necessity of regeneration um that all happened in the 1920s and 1930s and 1940s
00:37:03 right and then as the boomer generation came on and the sexual revolution happened yeah we started 0.55
00:37:07 ordaining the women and homosexuals and condoning it uh at for the groundwork had already been late 0.81
00:37:13 Exactly. So I think we have to, I think we, I think you're right to say something big and explosive happened under the boomer generation. And that's unfortunate and sad. I think the seeds were laid much before that and it all bore fruit under the boomer generation. 0.99
00:37:30 um the um you know i think i think you're absolutely right though i think we are we are
00:37:37 sitting in the the ruins of that and and the and the bumper sticker that says you know this is my
00:37:42 grandkids inheritance or this is i'm spending my kids inheritance um is absolutely shameful um it's
00:37:49 an abomination um and um and i think you know what it it ought you know the fine print underneath
00:37:55 I ought to say, I'm also ensuring that my kids and grandkids will be enslaved.
00:38:01 That's what they're doing.
00:38:04 To the extent that they're doing it with any kind of intentionality or knowledge,
00:38:08 what they need to know is by not leaving inheritance to your children's children,
00:38:12 by not seeking their blessing for those that come after you,
00:38:16 you are saying, I want to make sure that they are enslaved, they're enslaved.
00:38:22 I want to make sure that they do not succeed as much as they could.
00:38:27 I want to make sure that they do not take as much dominion as they could and have as
00:38:32 much cultural impact as they could, which is all sad and wicked.
00:38:37 At the same time, I would say there is absolutely no room in all of that for self-pity.
00:38:45 The last thing in the world we need as millennials or whatever.
00:38:48 Is more victims.
00:38:49 Yeah, no victims.
00:38:50 Right, right.
00:38:51 Right. You take what you get, you don't throw a fit. So sin on, on that generation, not giving
00:38:56 more. But, but then, okay. But then in, like David said, the lines have fallen for me in
00:39:03 pleasant places. So whether you're the King, like David, right. Cause sometimes I'm like,
00:39:07 easy for you to say, David, you're the King. I mean, there's some big lines, you know, but
00:39:11 it's one thing to salute the sovereignty of God as an attribute. But we know that we're really
00:39:17 trusting and celebrating the sovereignty of god as an attribute when we are content with what he
00:39:22 sovereignly provides with his sovereign providence not just his sovereign character but his sovereign
00:39:26 providence and so yeah we take you take what you what you get and you don't throw a fit and and
00:39:31 you make the most of it and you and you trust in the god who um who who i mean because we're talking
00:39:37 about the god of miracles so we're talking about the god who takes you know a few loaves and fishes
00:39:41 and multiplies them to feed 5,000.
00:39:43 And so we serve the God who raises the dead.
00:39:47 And so on this particular topic,
00:39:49 what I would urge people to do now
00:39:51 is regardless of what you inherited
00:39:53 or will inherit nothing or anything at all,
00:39:57 recognize that the inheritance that you have in Christ
00:40:00 is mind-blowing and you didn't deserve it.
00:40:03 So the gospel drives gospel generosity
00:40:06 and it drives the healing of families.
00:40:09 At the end of Malachi says that God is coming to turn the hearts of fathers to the children
00:40:14 and the hearts of children to the fathers.
00:40:16 And if you're in a situation where you say, wow, yeah, I need healing there.
00:40:20 Well, this is what the gospel is for.
00:40:23 And what I would say is start by honoring your father and mother.
00:40:26 Even if they haven't been faithful in honoring and thinking about their children and grandchildren,
00:40:31 what does the gospel do?
00:40:33 The gospel is for that.
00:40:34 The gospel loves enemies.
00:40:36 you know it it gives what isn't deserved that's gospel grace and honor your father and mother
00:40:43 doesn't just mean send them father's day cards and mother's day cards jesus says explicitly that
00:40:48 what it means is it means providing for them yeah and so we ought to be immediately thinking okay
00:40:53 how can i provide for my my parents and my grandparents one of the ways in which i think
00:40:59 the curse of of of the failure of the family has been manifest in the last couple of years
00:41:04 is how many thousands of our grandparents and parents were in nursing homes when COVID hit.
00:41:12 And then through the bungling and machinations of governors and civil magistrates who confined
00:41:18 our parents and grandparents to those nursing homes, often infected with COVID, the most
00:41:23 vulnerable population we now know statistically. I mean, why is it that the mass mortality rate
00:41:30 has primarily been centered in nursing homes. Well, because we put our parents and our grandparents
00:41:36 there and, um, and we gave the authority of caring for them to civil magistrates.
00:41:43 Yeah. Who killed them.
00:41:44 Um, and, um, and, and, you know, we cannot be surprised. We cannot be shocked that so many of
00:41:50 them, um, died and I, I have it in my own family. Um, and, um, and that's, um, to our shame. Uh,
00:41:58 That doesn't mean that there's never a place for assistance, for caring for parents, but the
00:42:03 authority and the responsibility needs to be remain with the family. And there should never
00:42:08 be a position, a situation where you can't see your mom or your dad or your grandma or your
00:42:12 grandpa. And there should never be a situation where you could not bring them home. Um, if you
00:42:17 thought that was the best thing for them. Um, and the default position ought to be that as your
00:42:22 parents and grandparents age, um, that you would want them in your home. You would want to care
00:42:26 for them as long as you possibly can um jesus says um that is the fulfillment um of the fifth
00:42:33 commandment that's right and that you and jesus indicts any kind of religious tradition of men
00:42:38 that would um that would encourage to give to the church to give to the temple at the expense of
00:42:44 providing for your parents and that's all go ahead or social security yeah yeah and that's no excuse
00:42:50 you can't say well i paid into social security my parents are getting the check right and then
00:42:54 And that goes right back to, again, first Timothy five, where, you know, like if this
00:43:02 widow has children, it falls on them.
00:43:05 And, and explicitly what Paul says is children should learn to give some return to their
00:43:09 parents for this is good and pleasing in the sight of God, which is precisely part of the,
00:43:13 part of the reason why, why my wife and I moved our family uprooted, left the church
00:43:19 that I was pastoring in California and moved to Texas because my wife's parents are here
00:43:22 and my parents are here.
00:43:24 And now we're within about a 10 to 15 minute drive with both sets of grandparents.
00:43:32 And our children are seeing grandma and grandpa on both sides once or twice a week.
00:43:39 And our kids are having the time of their lives.
00:43:42 And our grandparents are elated.
00:43:45 And now we're here.
00:43:46 So as they age, we can help them.
00:43:49 You know, in California, we were living in a shoebox and we would, you know, could pack
00:43:53 them in.
00:43:53 but now we're in Texas. And so we actually live in a, you know,
00:43:56 we're in a first world country. Now we have a home, an actual home,
00:43:59 those kinds of things. And everything's bigger in Texas.
00:44:01 That's right. And so we're better, uh,
00:44:03 we're better positioned to care like what you're saying for our, our parents.
00:44:06 So, all right, well let's, um, I think that's super helpful.
00:44:11 And Toby, I know you have other things to do for the kingdom of God besides
00:44:14 talk to me. So we got through half of it.
00:44:16 So do you think maybe two, three weeks from now you would have time to,
00:44:20 and we could just do one more session and finish it?
00:44:22 Yep, let's do that.
00:44:23 That would be awesome, Joel.
00:44:24 I'd love to.
00:44:25 Cool.
00:44:25 I'll email you a couple of prospective dates
00:44:27 and we'll make it happen.
00:44:29 I appreciate it.
00:44:30 Wonderful.
00:44:30 Thank you.
00:44:31 Yep, all right.
00:44:32 Thanks so much for listening.
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00:44:48 Thanks so much.