The NXR Podcast - BONUS - Costi Hinn, Michael O’Fallon, Doug Wilson, & The Rarity Of Repentance

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00:00:18 All right, welcome back to another live Q&A on Mondays at 12 p.m. Central Time.

00:00:24 Live Q&A with myself, Pastor Joel Webin, host of Right Response Ministries.

00:00:28 about, it seems like every other one of these at this point is a Q&A, the entire thing,

00:00:36 taking questions from you guys. And then it seems like the other half of the time,

00:00:40 there's some kind of topic that I feel strongly needs to be discussed, whether it's something

00:00:47 that you're interested in or not. It's something that I feel like needs to be discussed. Today is

00:00:51 one of those days, although I am going to get to some questions at the end. But what I want to

00:00:56 discuss is the recent kerfuffle, if you want to use that term, with Kosti Hinn on Twitter,

00:01:04 as well as his podcast, which is called For the Gospel. So Kosti Hinn, if you're not familiar

00:01:10 with him, he has launched into the stratosphere over the last few years within evangelical

00:01:16 Christianity, particularly within the Reformed camp, Calvinistic, gospel-centered camp. And a

00:01:24 lot of that has to do with his gifting and his heart for the Lord and his character. And a lot

00:01:29 of it also has to do with his last name. He is the nephew of the notorious faith healer,

00:01:38 word of faith healer, Benny Hinn. And so Kosti kind of came out of the word of faith movement

00:01:44 and the heretical doctrines of his uncle began to shed light on the false teaching of the

00:01:50 Prosperity Gospel, began to go on other people's podcasts, eventually got into vocational ministry

00:01:56 in a supportive pastoral role. He is now church planting, I believe, in the state of Arizona

00:02:01 as a teaching pastor, a lead pastor. And the church there is growing by leaps and bounds.

00:02:08 He's had speaking engagements all over, including at Grace Community Church, where John MacArthur

00:02:13 pastors in Southern California. And so Kosti Hinn has been kind of a rising star. And I

00:02:20 I don't mean that necessarily as an inherently bad thing.

00:02:24 There are people who lead in the evangelical movement and having some kind of notoriety,

00:02:30 some kind of platform does not inherently mean that that person is doing something wrong.

00:02:35 So I think God has used Kosti because he's been faithful.

00:02:39 I think God has used Kosti because he does have some measure of gifting theological aptitude

00:02:45 and gifting to preach.

00:02:47 He preached at my church in Southern California when I was pastoring there.

00:02:51 I'm now in Central Texas planting a new church.

00:02:54 But when I was in Southern California, that's when I first met Costi and he came and preached

00:02:58 at my church.

00:03:00 He also forwarded the first book that I wrote called Am I Truly Saved?

00:03:05 It's a study through 1 John dealing primarily with the topic of assurance of salvation.

00:03:12 And Costi wrote the forward for that book, which is interesting because I have a new

00:03:15 book that I've been working on that has been forwarded by Doug Wilson. And so I only have two

00:03:20 books, one forwarded by Costi Hinn and one forwarded by Doug Wilson, which is a little bit

00:03:26 funny because Doug Wilson is one of the names that Costi kind of threw into this royal rumble

00:03:33 ring of criticisms online on Twitter. And he also mentioned him in the podcast that he put out. So

00:03:40 anyways, that gives you a background with Costi Hinn. I've had the pleasure of spending a little

00:03:45 bit of time with him. And yeah, I think that he's gifted and I think he has notoriety and the Lord

00:03:50 has exalted him because of his gifting, because of his faithfulness, but also in terms of just

00:03:56 practical providence, a big part of it also happens to be his last name. If he was not the

00:04:03 nephew of Benny Hinn, I think he would probably be in vocational ministry and probably be faithfully

00:04:09 shepherding a flock, a local church, and probably doing some podcasting and writing and all those

00:04:15 different things, but probably would not have the level of notoriety and name recognition that he

00:04:23 currently does. And the only reason why I mentioned that is to say that I think that that's part of

00:04:29 the issue. Sometimes there are guys who just launch into the stratosphere because of some kind

00:04:34 of practical, providential, you know, element that is, that is aside from or other than their

00:04:43 personal character and gifting. And it gets them into situations that they're just not quite ready

00:04:50 for. It puts them into certain arenas and certain platforms before their character or before their

00:05:00 theological understanding can actually sustain that level of notoriety. And I think there might

00:05:08 be some element of that with Costi Hinn. But as I've said several times, I'll give the disclaimer

00:05:13 again, I do believe that he has genuine character. I do believe that he is genuinely faithful. I

00:05:18 believe that he genuinely loves the Lord. And I do believe that he has some measure of theological

00:05:23 aptitude and pastoral gifting and gifting to preach. Again, he preached at my church when I

00:05:28 was in Southern California and he did a wonderful job. So all that being said, I think that Costi

00:05:33 is legit. But I also think that he is recognized perhaps as being a little bit more legit than he

00:05:43 is. So that's not to say that he has no legitimacy whatsoever, but I think that he has been launched

00:05:47 beyond his own capacity due to the fact of his last name. Another example that would be Mark

00:05:53 Driscoll. Mark Driscoll didn't have a, you know, a notorious last name, an infamous last name like

00:06:00 Costi Hinn with his uncle Benny Hinn. But Mark was business savvy, had just a general, you know,

00:06:07 practical knack for business and those kinds of things. And it was with the big dot com push and

00:06:12 social media coming on the scene and those kind of and Mark was right there on the cutting edge

00:06:16 of recording videos and taking clips of sermons and podcasting was just really becoming a thing.

00:06:27 And he was right there on the cutting edge of that with Apple iTunes and those kinds of things.

00:06:31 And I think Mark Driscoll would be an example of a guy that because of some of his practical

00:06:36 knowledge and optimizing his ministry online as much as possible, his ministry grew bigger than

00:06:46 he was really ready to be able to handle. And there are other problems with Mark Driscoll and

00:06:51 for the record, to be fair to Mark Driscoll, because it's always fun to beat up on Mark

00:06:55 Driscoll. There are other problems with Driscoll and there are also other strengths with Driscoll.

00:07:01 The Lord used Driscoll in many wonderful ways for which I am personally grateful for. And so I don't

00:07:06 want to just beat up on Driscoll. But I do think that there were some objective problems. So

00:07:11 anyways, all that being said, Costi was on Twitter. For those of you who don't know what

00:07:16 I'm talking about, well, you're not going to find out because it's all been deleted. And for the

00:07:22 record, I don't think that it's, again, I don't think that's something that's inherently wrong

00:07:27 to delete a tweet. I've deleted a tweet. Some of you guys may have even seen it. I talked about how

00:07:32 no one at my local church that I pastor votes Democrat. And I stand by it. But I deleted the 0.89

00:07:39 tweet, not because it's wrong, not because I shouldn't have said it, but because it got picked 1.00

00:07:44 up by a bunch of progressive liberal idiots. And I was getting about 20 comments per minute, 1.00

00:07:53 maybe even within 30 seconds. And I just couldn't keep up with it. And I didn't want just a string

00:08:00 of foolish, blasphemous, progressive, liberal, transing kids comments on my Twitter 1.00

00:08:09 account that I wasn't able to respond to. And so it wasn't that I deleted the tweet because I 0.99

00:08:16 tweeted it out through fallenness, meaning immaturity or foolishness or sinfulness,

00:08:22 but through my finitude, simply being one man, a human being, I just can't keep up

00:08:27 with the response. And so that's just the easiest way to undo it. So I don't think it's always wrong

00:08:32 to delete a tweet. Brian Sauve has deleted some of his tweets that go viral, that are good for

00:08:38 the church, that are theologically sound. It's a good tweet. But he's the guy, if you're not

00:08:43 familiar with him, he pastors Refuge Church. He's on the King's Hall podcast, which is a great,

00:08:49 great podcast. We've had those guys on our show, Theology Applied, in the past. But Brian, he's a

00:08:56 guy who I think he got like 30 million, million impressions within like 48 hours when he tweeted

00:09:02 about modesty. And he said that there's no excuse to be immodest. Whether you're in a hospital bed

00:09:08 because you just had your first baby or whatever it might be, we don't need to see private parts

00:09:15 of your body. And I remember Beth Moore picked it up and said like, this is none of your business.

00:09:21 We don't need modesty tips from you. Mind your unders, right? Trying to be cute and snarky. And 0.98

00:09:26 of course, Beth Moore would be on the side of defending immodesty with women and feminism 1.00

00:09:32 because that's Beth Moore. So, but eventually he deleted that tweet because he's getting phone

00:09:37 calls from raging feminists, you know, threatening him. And it's just, it gets out of control. So

00:09:42 it's not always wrong to delete a tweet. Costi would be an example. I think, again, a different

00:09:48 angle, but an example of this is one of the times when you should delete a tweet. And in his case,

00:09:54 it wasn't deleting it because the tweet got out of hand, although he's still standing by

00:10:00 the content of what he tweeted. But no, he actually deleted the tweet because he actually

00:10:05 changed his mind. He realized that what he tweeted was foolish, and it was. And he tweeted 0.97

00:10:11 something else out in its place, namely an apology. And so I want to start with that disclaimer and

00:10:17 say that Kosti Hinn, as it currently stands, we'll see how things unfold, but as it currently

00:10:22 stands, he sent out two tweets where he apologized in conjunction. He also put out a letter, an

00:10:29 official statement in conjunction with G3 Ministries, which he's partnered with and spoken

00:10:34 at their conferences in the past and those things. So he put out a letter with G3 Ministries, and he

00:10:39 also put out personally with his Twitter account, two tweets basically saying, I'm sorry, I allowed

00:10:45 personal grievances to be dealt with in a public form. That was foolish. And then he ended with 0.99

00:10:53 what I believe is a Charles Spurgeon quote, where he says, if I don't play by the rules,

00:10:58 or if I don't fight by God's rules, then I forfeit the right to fight. And so good on him

00:11:06 for that. That was a visible sign of repentance, whether it's genuine repentance, that has to do

00:11:13 with the heart, and only God knows that, we're able to detect the degree of authenticity when

00:11:21 it comes to someone's repentance over time. And ironically, that's something that Costi has said

00:11:26 as well regarding his uncle. There was a time when Benny Hinn, I think it was like maybe two

00:11:31 years ago, where he allegedly repented for the prosperity gospel and trying to make money off

00:11:38 of, uh, off of preaching the gospel and saying, you know, if you give this amount, uh, then God's

00:11:43 going to heal you, or he's going to do this, or you're going to get a raise at work. And so

00:11:47 Benny Hinn had this clip that went viral where he was repenting and Costi, this is the irony,

00:11:52 Costi himself said, um, when people were asking him, you know, do you think your uncle really

00:11:56 repented? He said, uh, time will tell. Um, and so, you know, so it takes time with these things,

00:12:02 But him putting out a statement with G3 Ministries, him deleting the old tweets that were contentious and foolish, and I'll get into that in a moment, and him also tweeting out that he was sorry and that he shouldn't have done it, all those are good signs.

00:12:17 And the difference between Costi Hinn and Benny Hinn, as far as I can tell, is that one of those guys seems like a bona fide Christian.

00:12:24 I'll let you guess which one.

00:12:25 So I think that there's a good chance that the repentance is genuine, because that's

00:12:29 one of the clear signs of a Christian is that Christians repent.

00:12:34 All right. 1.00

00:12:34 So all that being said, I have, you know, I have respect for Costi, appreciation for

00:12:39 him, especially on the fact that he actually did apologize because that's kind of sets

00:12:46 Costi apart from your typical Big Eva, because one of the things that Big Eva doesn't do

00:12:51 is apologize. 0.60

00:12:52 what big evil will do is just memory hole everything right they they you know they put

00:12:58 out some article you know about i don't know something that where they get a ton of pushback

00:13:04 you know like roe gets overturned and you know gospel coalition is saying you know let's you

00:13:08 know let's uh not beat our chest you know and celebrate or whatever um you know those kinds

00:13:13 of things uh where let's be winsome like yeah uh baby murder is going to happen less objectively

00:13:19 at a numerical scale in the United States of America after 49 years.

00:13:25 And you might think, Christian, who loves God and loves the image of God as you see

00:13:30 it in man and wants to defend the sanctity of life for the unborn child, you might think

00:13:34 that this is a good thing and you might think that we should celebrate and even publicly

00:13:40 celebrate, but you'd be wrong, biblical Christian. 0.55

00:13:43 you instead should be more sensitive, you know, and it's not the time to grandstand and beat our

00:13:51 chest, right? So, Big Eva does those kinds of things. Gospel Coalition does those kinds of 1.00

00:13:55 things. And when they do those things and they get called on it by faithful guys like John Harris or

00:14:01 A.D. Robles or whoever, you know, enough people come out against them, then what they'll do is

00:14:07 apologize, just like Kosti Hint. Nope. What they'll do is they'll just memory hole everything.

00:14:12 It all goes down the memory hole. They delete it. They just change topics, put out a bunch of

00:14:18 articles and speeches and podcasts on some other subject, and people forget. That is a good

00:14:26 strategy. It's not a godly strategy. It's not what the Bible tells us to do when we actually

00:14:32 do something wrong in sin. We should repent, and repentance is both in deed and word. You've heard

00:14:38 me talk about this before. When somebody repents, there is indeed, there's actually a change in

00:14:44 about face in terms of their actions. They were going one direction, doing one thing, and now

00:14:49 they're going to do another. But repentance is not merely in deed, it's also in word, meaning

00:14:54 that there is some kind of verbal acknowledgement of wrong. If you send privately against one

00:14:59 individual, then all that requires is your word to that one individual, where you acknowledge

00:15:04 that you send against them and you apologize and ask for forgiveness. But it can't just be that you

00:15:10 were sending against an individual and now you're going to stop sending against that individual in

00:15:14 your actions, but you never actually say with words to that individual, I wronged you and I'm

00:15:21 sorry, right? You can't just change your actions. You actually need to repent in deed and in word,

00:15:28 meaning an acknowledgement of wrongdoing and the level, the size of that word, the audience,

00:15:35 the size of the audience that you are repenting in word toward should match the same size of

00:15:42 audience that you send against, right? So if you did something wrong publicly, then you should

00:15:48 repent, not just in deed, but in word publicly. And Big Eva does not do that. They just count 0.59

00:15:53 on you forgetting, right? It's the same playbook. It's the same strategy that the Democrat party

00:15:59 would use. And for that matter, the Republican party as well, pretty much just about any

00:16:03 politician, right? When they get caught in something, they don't actually retract it.

00:16:07 They don't actually apologize for it. They don't actually repent. They just do PR. There's a

00:16:14 difference between repentance and just a PR stunt where you memory hole everything and you just wait

00:16:21 for people to forget because people will forget. And part of the reason people forget is because

00:16:26 we're finite. But part of the reason people forget also is because of just the nature of

00:16:30 the internet. We are just bombarded and flooded with so many events and so much data and so much

00:16:36 information and so many stories and so much entertainment and so much this and that and the

00:16:40 other. Every single second of every minute of every hour of every day that things get buried

00:16:48 over time. And it doesn't even take that much time for things to get buried and people just

00:16:53 move on, right? They just move on. And so, yeah, so good on Kosti for actually repenting,

00:17:01 at least from what we can tell visibly externally, not just in his actions, but also in his words.

00:17:07 All right. So you can't go and see the tweets because he deleted him. And as I've already said,

00:17:11 I think he deleted them for the right reasons. There are times to delete a tweet. This was one

00:17:15 of them. He did the right thing in that regard. But what did he actually say? We talked about

00:17:19 Michael O'Fallon and he talked about Doug Wilson. There were other things that were wrapped up into

00:17:25 it. He didn't publicly through Twitter talk about G3 Ministries, but he did talk about G3 Ministries

00:17:33 on the podcast that he put out. And, you know, he deleted that podcast that same day. Now I got to

00:17:40 listen to the whole podcast because I was being proactive about this because I had an interest

00:17:45 in it. I wanted to see what was going on and what he was going to say. But basically the plan was,

00:17:52 which the plan has now changed and good because it was a bad plan. It needed to change. But the

00:17:57 plan was to do a four part series on his podcast for the gospel and to release that, I'm assuming

00:18:04 weekly. And, uh, and you know, he ended up, you know, the first episode got such backlash, um,

00:18:11 that he ended up deleting it that day. And it seems like the plan has been, you know,

00:18:15 for the indefinite future, the plan has been canned. Um, but part of the reason that he got

00:18:21 backlash was because in the podcast, not just the tweets, but in the podcast, uh, he wrapped

00:18:26 G3 ministries into his grievance. And the way that that works with Michael O'Fallon and Doug

00:18:32 Wilson, because those were the main two names in the Twitter verse, which all those tweets have

00:18:37 been deleted and the podcast has been deleted. It's all been deleted. But the way that G3 got

00:18:43 in there was because Michael O'Fallon, according to Kosti Hinn, I can't verify these things. I don't

00:18:50 know a whole lot about G3 ministries. I've got some measure of friendship with Virgil Walker

00:18:55 and um and you know we've we've talked and been friendly in the past and um i like josh bice you

00:19:01 know i you know g3 ministries is is good in my book um but i'm not intimately involved um so i

00:19:08 you know i don't know but the podcast that that the costy hen did he said that basically michael

00:19:14 fallon is a board member of g3 ministries and that he is you know rich and he actually said it

00:19:21 you know, he said like, uh, well, he's just rich. And if we're going to be faithful to the cause of

00:19:25 Christ and these kinds of things, like, yeah, we, we need to fight the culture war and we need to

00:19:30 fight against the woke and these kinds of things. But, um, but we can't, uh, we can't, um, make,

00:19:35 uh, you know, uh, ungodly wicked alliances and partnerships, um, in order to win this fight.

00:19:44 Basically Costi's, his basic premise was this. He said, I don't want to win. I'm paraphrasing,

00:19:50 but he said, I don't want to win a political slash cultural war that really does need to be won

00:19:57 and really does exist for anybody who says that, you know, the culture war is, you know, doesn't 0.99

00:20:02 exist or well, you're dumb, you're wrong. And for anyone who says Christians shouldn't be involved 0.99

00:20:07 in the culture war, you're a radical two kingdom pietist who is also dumb and wrong. And so, so 1.00

00:20:14 Kosti didn't take either of those approaches. God bless him. You know, he's saying there really is

00:20:18 a culture war, culture and political, you know, issues and Christians really do need to be involved,

00:20:22 but we can't form unholy alliances in our quest to win. So in a nutshell, he's saying, I don't

00:20:28 want to win the culture war, but in the process, lose the doctrine war, the doctrinal war. That's,

00:20:34 I think, fair to his position. And what he was saying is like, I don't want to see us align with

00:20:40 false teachers just because they agree that abortion is murder, right? So we don't need,

00:20:48 you know, and that was kind of his initial tweet that started all this was like, we don't need

00:20:52 James Lindsay to fight against CRT. And James Lindsay, if you're not familiar with him,

00:21:00 he's a friend of Michael O'Fallon. Michael O'Fallon was the first guy who really introduced

00:21:03 James Lindsay to the evangelical church when it came to some of these issues of social justice,

00:21:10 CRT, intersectionality, because nobody understood what was going on. Nobody, right? And we forget,

00:21:16 right? You talk about the internet and everything just piles up every second of every minute of

00:21:20 every hour of every day. We forget it was not that long ago. We're not talking 10 years ago

00:21:25 or 20 years ago. We're talking like three years ago. The guys who are speaking out about this

00:21:30 stuff, including me, to be fair, we were not well-versed in some of this ideology. We were

00:21:38 not experts in Marxism. We didn't know a whole lot about the Frankfurt School. I remember James

00:21:48 White being honest and being humble, saying that his daughter, Summer, had to explain to him,

00:21:56 to her father, what critical race theory and intersectionality was. And this was not a

00:22:02 conversation that they had 30 years ago. This was a conversation they had, you know,

00:22:06 in the past few years, because a lot of us were kind of getting caught up to speed. And so

00:22:10 I say that to say, we should give honor where honor is due. And Michael O'Fallon really was

00:22:15 in many ways, one of the very first, I'm not saying no one, but he, I mean,

00:22:21 there was just a handful of people and he was one of the very first individuals

00:22:26 who was like, guys, pastors, theologians, seminary professors, we've got a huge problem

00:22:32 that is arising. And as soon it's going to be in full force, please listen to me.

00:22:39 Please listen to me. So Kossi Hinn, you know, his first kind of notorious tweet that started this

00:22:45 whole, this whole quarrel online was we don't need James Lindsay. And this is what I would say,

00:22:55 And if Costi listens to this, I don't assume that he will.

00:22:58 But if he listens to this, I guess I would just say, but we did need James Lindsay.

00:23:03 We did.

00:23:05 Because you, Costi, and me, and 99.999% of every other pastor who's now decrying wokeness,

00:23:15 we didn't know what the heck was going on back then.

00:23:18 We didn't.

00:23:19 um and so so i understand that james lindsey is an atheist he was a part of the new atheist

00:23:27 movement which is incredibly blasphemous and hates the church and by james lindsey's you know 0.77

00:23:33 by his own admission he said yeah i was young and arrogant and foolish and i you know and now i think 0.95

00:23:38 he would describe himself as agnostic but he's still not a christian he's still not a christian

00:23:44 And that brings into question, like, who can Christians actually partner with?

00:23:51 Right?

00:23:51 Like, can we partner with James Lindsay when he's seen something that all these pastors

00:23:58 in the church are not? 1.00

00:24:00 Can we partner with him to try to take down wokeness? 1.00

00:24:06 And I would say, yeah, we can.

00:24:09 And I'll come back to that because that's a big idea that needs to be fleshed out.

00:24:14 know, some explanation and doctrinal, you know, explanation for why.

00:24:19 But the first thing that I want to say is the fact that James Lindsay became a regular

00:24:26 speaker with Sovereign Nations and Michael O'Fallon and other context, evangelical church

00:24:31 context on this topic, I think it speaks far less, far less in regards to the evangelical

00:24:39 churches compromise on faithfulness to doctrine. And it speaks far more of an indictment to the

00:24:49 evangelical church in being politically and culturally and ideologically clueless, right?

00:24:58 The reason why James Lindsay, Michael O'Fallon involved James Lindsay is because no one was

00:25:03 listening to Michael O'Fallon. No one, no one in the church, he was being written off.

00:25:09 by everyone. He was going to seminaries and he was going to big conferences and he was going in

00:25:16 those back rooms, you know, with trust, you know, board members and all these kinds of things and

00:25:22 having these conversations and saying, we are in trouble. Sound the alarm, right? He was blowing

00:25:27 the trumpet on the wall. The city's under attack and no one listened. No one listened. And so he

00:25:33 brought in James Lindsay and, you know, and made some partnerships with some other people

00:25:38 who had expertise in this area, who could make more convincing arguments about the danger of

00:25:46 these things. Now, James Lindsay doesn't have a solution. He doesn't have a solution because he's

00:25:50 not a Christian, because the solution is God's word. The solution to lawlessness is God's law, 0.99

00:25:57 not libertarianism, not classic liberalism, not a mere return to the American constitution,

00:26:03 which I think is a beautiful document that I love, but a return ultimately to scripture,

00:26:08 which is what forged, I believe, and influenced the writing of the constitution. But it's got to

00:26:12 be all the way back. We can't just get back to the 1700s. We got to get all the way back

00:26:18 to the Bible. And so all that being said, Michael O'Fallon deserves honor because he was sounding

00:26:23 the alarm when nobody else would listen. Now, the reason why this became a problem with Costi

00:26:29 is because, you know, Costi saying, well, we don't need James Lindsay. And he's pinpointing

00:26:36 out, you know, Michael O'Fallon. And then in his podcast, which was only up for a few hours,

00:26:40 but if you had the great misfortune of listening to it, like I did in his podcast, the first

00:26:46 episode, he said in the second one, he was going to get to Doug Wilson. And so we never got that

00:26:50 far. But in the first one, he just blasted Michael O'Fallon. And I don't know Michael

00:26:55 O'Fallon personally. And so I'm not going to sit here and say that all of Costi's accusations were

00:27:00 false. I'm also not going to say that any of them were true, because I don't know, I'm not going to

00:27:05 speak to things that I was not an eyewitness of. But I do know that in general, in general,

00:27:11 Michael O'Fallon was blacklisted by a lot of people and sent out to pasture and ignored.

00:27:20 I don't think that it was wrong for him to bring James Lindsay into some of these conversations

00:27:25 not saying here's the biblical solution, but here, here are some of the problems. And here's

00:27:31 what these guys say, right? James Lindsay has read the literature, right? He's, he's even said

00:27:36 himself, my superpower, when it comes to fighting wokeism and Marxism and these, my superpower

00:27:41 is that I've read their literature and I believe them. That's what James Lindsay has said, his

00:27:48 words, my superpower, the reason why I've launched into the stratosphere on this subject and people,

00:27:53 you know, deem me to be credible authority on this matter is simply all I've done is read their

00:28:00 material and I believe them. I believe that they really are this wicked, that they actually want

00:28:06 to do these things. And the reality is that at the time in 2017 and 2018 and 2019, there weren't

00:28:17 a lot of solid evangelical pastors who could say that. I've read their material. I am incredibly

00:28:24 familiar with the Frankfurt School. I am, you know, familiar with this and familiar with that.

00:28:31 And I understand what they're saying. I understand what this means. There just weren't a lot of guys.

00:28:36 Voddie Bauckham would be one of the earlier guys. You know, I remember him talking about

00:28:39 um, ethnic Gnosticism, ethnic Gnosticism. And, um, and that was, uh, years ago, uh, before this

00:28:47 became this nationwide, and now it's just common knowledge, but there was a time where, where you

00:28:53 couldn't say these things. And Votie Bauckham said some of these things saying that, you know,

00:28:57 standpoint epistemology, this idea that based off of your, you know, your intersections and your,

00:29:04 you know, your race and your sexual, you know, proclivities and, and, you know, your gender and

00:29:09 all these kinds of things, you will be, you know, higher or lower on the scale of oppression. And 0.51

00:29:14 based on how many, you know, how many oppression points you can, you can garnish, then, then you're

00:29:22 able to see things more clearly, right? It's epistemology is, you know, how do we know what

00:29:27 we know? How do we learn? How do we come by knowledge, right? And standpoint epistemology

00:29:33 is basically just saying that there is no transcendent universal truth.

00:29:38 We all, it's individual standpoints.

00:29:41 Who am I and what is my lived experience?

00:29:43 What's my truth, right?

00:29:45 And then Vodhi just coined that and said, you know, instead of standpoint epistemology,

00:29:48 he just put it in terms of ethnic Gnosticism, right?

00:29:52 Gnosticism being that, again, that it's just this mystical, personal, spiritual, ethereal,

00:29:59 you know, I had this revelation, or I've been enlightened, that knowledge is gnosis, right?

00:30:06 It's secret knowledge. That's what Gnosticism is. It's the secret knowledge that some people have

00:30:11 and other people don't have access to based off of whether or not you've been enlightened. And

00:30:15 so Votie was just saying, yeah, it's a Gnostic epistemology, and it's based off of ethnicity,

00:30:22 ethnic Gnosticism, or standpoint epistemology. And Votie, again, he was one of the first guys

00:30:27 talking about this, but a lot of guys weren't listening. They weren't listening. So I would say,

00:30:32 you know, to Costi, the first thing I would say, you know, to his comment, we don't need James

00:30:36 Lindsay, is I would say, we shouldn't, I almost agree with you, Costi, we shouldn't have needed

00:30:42 James Lindsay. I agree with that. We shouldn't have needed James Lindsay, but we did. And I think

00:30:50 what that says about the evangelical church is far less about our willingness to compromise

00:30:54 in our doctrinal alliances, but it says far more about the evangelical church in terms of an

00:31:00 indictment with our naivety, that we were naive and uninformed and uninvolved when it comes to

00:31:10 the culture and politics. Part of the reason that we were so uninformed is because of our poor

00:31:16 theology in terms of radical two kingdom theology and pietism and that, you know, well, Christian

00:31:22 faith just doesn't, you know, have anything in common with politics. We just need to stay out 0.78

00:31:27 of the political sphere. You know, we're just sojourners passing through, you know, and

00:31:31 this is not our home. And Jesus said, my kingdom is not of this world. And what Jesus meant is that

00:31:38 my kingdom's not even in this world. And so Christians shouldn't work towards that. You know, 1.00

00:31:43 all these kinds of things, that was just the air that evangelicals were breathing for the most part.

00:31:48 That was, you know, that's just, that's what we believed.

00:31:51 Most evangelicals would have been in terms of eschatology, they would have been pre-millennial,

00:31:57 dispensational pre-millennialism.

00:31:59 So not a historic pre-millennialism, but dispensational pre-millennialism, AKA, if

00:32:04 you don't know what that means, to some degree or another, it's basically the left behind

00:32:09 series, right?

00:32:10 So our view of the world was, and our lens, our hermeneutic for reading scripture, for

00:32:16 for the most part, not everybody, but for the most part, speaking of the majority of evangelicalism

00:32:20 was Jesus is coming back soon. And, and God has ordained and determined that everything's going

00:32:28 to get worse until he does come back. And this world is not our home. And we really shouldn't

00:32:34 have much of a vested interest in society and politics and legislation. And, and we just kind

00:32:44 of need to, you know, stay pure from being defiled by the world and kind of do our own

00:32:50 Christian thing. And the only thing that we do with culture at all is just at an individual

00:32:54 one-to-one ratio, personal evangelism, personal evangelism. And it's just like, well, man,

00:33:02 that's, but that's the mantra. That was the mantra of the evangelical boomers, right? Let's

00:33:07 forget the institutions. We don't really need Christian art. We don't really need to fight 0.57

00:33:13 the culture war. All we need to do is personal evangelism and reach the lost. Jesus is going to

00:33:19 come back in about 15 minutes and everything's going to get worse no matter what we do, because

00:33:23 that's what God's decided to try to stop this downward spiral is just to polish brass on a

00:33:30 sinking ship. What we really need to do, if anything, is speed up Christ's return. If there's

00:33:35 any way to do that, it's to make sure that all the nations have heard the gospel. And so we need to

00:33:40 devote ourselves to global missions. So not really building institutions, not really being involved

00:33:45 in politics and culture and building culture, but instead we're going to send missionaries around

00:33:51 the world. We're going to do global missions. And one of the ways that we're going to be able

00:33:54 to afford to fund these global missions is that we're not going to pay for our own children to go

00:33:59 to a Christian school or forfeit that double income that we've grown accustomed to by mom

00:34:05 no longer working out of the home because now she has to homeschool. So what we're going to do is

00:34:08 we're going to put our kids in state schools that teach public atheism. And we're all going

00:34:15 to console ourselves by saying, well, yeah, public school is not great, but our public school is not

00:34:18 bad. Every single person, do you know that every single Christian at every single public school

00:34:22 in the entire country says that their public school is the one public school that's not that 0.72

00:34:26 bad? So you do that, and then you devote yourself to global missions, and then all your kids grow up

00:34:32 and apostatize and leave the faith. So yeah, that was a bad plan. This, this, this dispensational

00:34:39 pre-millennial radical two kingdom distinction between, you know, the church, you know, the

00:34:48 sacred and the common, this, this did not work very well for us, did not work very well for us.

00:34:56 And so as these things, these forces, demonic forces began to come to a head, a lot of evangelicals missed it, a lot of them, and some of them saw it.

00:35:07 And so as it pertains again to Costi and Michael O'Fallon, it's like, well, why is Costi, you know, upset about it?

00:35:14 Well, I think, you know, like he said, there's some personal grievances.

00:35:18 So some of this is speculation.

00:35:20 Okay.

00:35:21 But I think it wasn't entirely clear.

00:35:24 And I'll just speak for myself.

00:35:26 It wasn't entirely clear, even to me, what side of this culture war Costi was on, right?

00:35:34 I mean, what have we seen over the last two years, especially over the last two years

00:35:38 is we've, we've seen this great divide, right?

00:35:40 Votie Bauckham, he came out with his book, Fault Lines and saying, you know, we know

00:35:44 the old fault lines, right?

00:35:45 The old fault lines of, you know, are you reformed or are you Arminian?

00:35:50 Are you Baptist or Presbyterian? 0.73

00:35:51 Are you, you know, so it's the Credo Baptist versus Paedo Baptism.

00:35:54 It's continuationism versus cessationism, you know, and we had all these different theological doctrinal fault lines and we were willing to put some of those things aside as secondary issues.

00:36:05 And that's where you see the emergence of big ministries like Together for the Gospel, right, with Mark Dever and Al Mohler and, you know, Lig Duncan and those kinds of things.

00:36:13 And that was kind of, that was just, that was the vibe for a while, for a good, you know, 15, 20 years.

00:36:21 But then all of a sudden we realize under the surface, there's some other fault lines,

00:36:25 some new fault lines that we weren't aware even existed.

00:36:29 Like maybe people are going to care in the near future more about, well, more about abortion

00:36:38 than they care about baptism, you know, or maybe people are going to care more about

00:36:45 critical race theory than they care about Calvinism, right? And Votie Bauckham was right.

00:36:53 And these things became the big dividing lines. And guys that we thought were on our side,

00:37:00 all of a sudden, we realize we're not on the same team. Timothy Keller is not on our team.

00:37:09 Russell Moore is not on our team at all.

00:37:12 He always punches to the right

00:37:15 and is always assuaging the conscience of the left.

00:37:19 He's not on our team.

00:37:20 He's working against the cause of Christ.

00:37:24 And so there are guys that we thought

00:37:26 we're all together for the gospel, right?

00:37:27 And we would all go and sing hymns together

00:37:29 at the conference.

00:37:29 And it turns out we're not on the same team.

00:37:34 We're not.

00:37:35 And so these things matter.

00:37:38 And, uh, and a lot of us were late to the game and, and during this great divide, right?

00:37:44 So it's like the fault lines finally, it's like, we're all waiting for the big one, right?

00:37:48 The big earthquake where these fault lines are going to, they're going to go off and

00:37:52 you're going to have these tectonic plates shifting.

00:37:54 And, and all of a sudden somebody that we thought was, you know, a foot away from us

00:37:57 and we're on the same team is now on the other side of the world.

00:38:00 And the divide is, um, massive, right?

00:38:03 And that's, what's been happening.

00:38:05 These things have been under the surface for a very long time.

00:38:07 but over the last two years, because of COVID, because of the mostly peaceful riots in the

00:38:12 streets, you know, with Black Lives Matter, because of Roe being over, I mean, we've had

00:38:17 some significant things because of the 2020 election, right? Like, we've had some significant

00:38:22 things that have taken these fault lines, and then all of a sudden, they're not just tremors,

00:38:26 but earthquakes, and the divide is starting to happen. And in Michael O'Fallon's defense,

00:38:31 I think he was just saying, Kosti, where are you at on this? Where are you at? And it's not

00:38:36 because Costi, you know, is, was super duper woke. Um, but he just, I don't know. He was kind of

00:38:43 quiet. Right. And, and by, by 2019, right. That 2019 is when I preached my first public sermon

00:38:51 against critical race theory. Um, but my point is by, by, by 2020, right. The, the summer of 2020

00:38:59 when BLM's going, you know, going down and all these different things by that time, um, pastors

00:39:05 needed to pick a side. They needed to have made up their minds by that point of what the Bible

00:39:10 says about these things. And by 2020, if you were a pastor, you know, I led my church. I was an Acts

00:39:20 29 pastor. And I led my church out of Acts 29 when I was still in Southern California at the end of

00:39:27 2018, the end of two. So by, by 2018, 2019, just a few months later, preaching against critical

00:39:35 race theory. And here's the sad thing. I feel very strongly that I was late to the game and

00:39:41 that I was naive and that I should have been wiser. But most guys would say that I, that I was

00:39:46 a forerunner. I was one of the guys who's the tip of the spear. And, and sadly, by comparison,

00:39:53 and that's true. By comparison, I was early. By comparison to the vast majority of evangelical

00:40:00 pastors, people, we were just really, really late. And so once it's 2020, and then 2021,

00:40:06 if we still can't tell where you're at on these issues, then yeah, then it's like,

00:40:14 if you're not being too woke, you're at least at minimum being too quiet.

00:40:21 You're just being too quiet.

00:40:24 And I think that's how Michael O'Fallon felt about Costi.

00:40:27 And Costi felt like this isn't fair.

00:40:30 Costi, in his defense, would say, no, I have been outspoken about these things, and I don't

00:40:34 have to do it exactly your way.

00:40:36 And so this is what's under the surface.

00:40:38 It's this personal vendetta, this personal conflict where Michael O'Fallon was calling

00:40:47 out Costi and saying, I feel like Costi is a double agent. I feel like he's playing the field.

00:40:51 I feel like he's, you know, um, not, not choosing this day whom he will serve. And, uh, and so we

00:40:57 need to be a little bit wary about Costi. And, uh, and then Costi on his side is saying, this is

00:41:03 slander and this isn't fair. And I feel like the truth is probably somewhere in between. Um, I

00:41:09 think Costi could have been, and I like Costi, um, but I think he could have been a lot more

00:41:13 outspoken about some of these issues. I remember after COVID, churches were locked down and this

00:41:18 wasn't just, you know, like five days after churches get locked down, but this was a few

00:41:23 weeks into it. It may have been even a couple months. I can't remember exactly, but he wrote

00:41:27 an article, Costi Hinn, about how, you know, the need of the hour is courage. No, the need of the

00:41:35 hour is truth. No, the need of the hour is unity. Classic. And, you know, some people are going to

00:41:41 stay home, they're not going to go to church and physically gather because they're scared. And some

00:41:46 people are going to physically gather and we don't need to divide over this. We need to have grace

00:41:49 for one another. And it's an issue of, you know, Christian liberty and conscience. And I remember

00:41:55 reading that and being angry. I remember being really angry. I was like, this is not what we

00:42:00 need. No, we need someone to lead. We need someone with spying. We need someone to like,

00:42:09 no, this is not relative, right? Like if he had said, if you're 85 years old and extra vulnerable

00:42:16 to this particular virus and, and, and for a while in, in prudence and safe, but that wasn't the

00:42:22 article. The article wasn't making provisions for certain types of people based off of their,

00:42:27 maybe they have an autoimmune deficiency or, or their elderly. No, no, it was just an article

00:42:31 saying that, you know, somebody could be 25 and perfectly healthy and, and their conscience,

00:42:37 you know, they're just not going to go to church right now. And we just need to be,

00:42:41 we don't need to push on them. We don't need to convict them. We don't need to address that error

00:42:47 because that is error. Instead, we just need to be charitable and united. Yeah, that was not the

00:42:53 need of the hour. So I don't follow Kosti Hinn and everything that he puts out. So I can't speak

00:42:59 as an expert to Kosti Hinn, you know, every facet of his ministry over the last two years. But I can

00:43:04 say just by that article alone, that showed me something, that here we are, we're in the heat of

00:43:09 it. 2020 is where all of a sudden these fault lines are starting to go off. And Kosti's kind

00:43:16 of straddling the middle, right? The tectonic plates are spreading and he's doing the splits

00:43:21 instead of just picking a side, namely God's side and speaking the truth and saying, hey,

00:43:27 this virus is real. I'm not a corona denier, but this is not the bubonic plague. Churches

00:43:33 are essential and should never have been shut down. And if you're young and healthy, you need

00:43:37 to get your butt in church. And if that bothers you, that's not a lack of charity. That's just 0.55

00:43:43 the presence of truth. You need to repent. Christians were being fearful. It was sin.

00:43:50 It was sin. Why can't we say that? I said it then and people didn't like it and I'll say it now.

00:43:56 No, the church sinned over COVID.

00:43:59 We did.

00:44:00 It's not subjective.

00:44:01 It's not relative.

00:44:03 It's not just an issue of Christian liberty and conscience.

00:44:07 No, it's not.

00:44:09 Part of the reason the government was able to get away with as much tyranny as it did

00:44:13 is because Christians that are supposed to be the salt of the earth kept complying.

00:44:19 And that was not loving our neighbor because our neighbor lost his business. 0.55

00:44:24 Our neighbor couldn't visit his grandparents in the hospital

00:44:27 when they died alone with Andrew Cuomo.

00:44:30 Our neighbor was not being loved by us

00:44:33 because the club of the state in its civil tyranny

00:44:39 that was beating our neighbor over the head,

00:44:42 part of what was giving that club its momentum and force 0.99

00:44:45 was our cowardly Christian compliance. 0.97

00:44:50 And that was sin. 0.77

00:44:51 and we need to we need to repent and like i said earlier repentance is twofold it's changing our

00:44:57 action but it's not just changing our action and expecting that nobody will notice the the

00:45:02 contradiction before between what we're doing now and what we did before no you change in your

00:45:06 action and you also repent not just in deed but in word you say you verbally say i was wrong

00:45:14 and a ton of people still haven't repented i'm talking about christians pastors and just

00:45:21 Christians. They still haven't come out and just said, I was wrong. Everybody's acting like COVID

00:45:25 doesn't matter now, but very few are saying, yeah, but I was wiping down packages with Lysol

00:45:32 and not two days after when no one knew what it was, but two months, three months, four months,

00:45:37 I didn't go to church for five months. And now, yeah, because now the tides have turned.

00:45:43 Right now we have critical mass. So yeah, I'm acting like this was silly, like everyone else

00:45:47 is acting like it was silly, but it was silly because all of us were being silly. And I was 0.72

00:45:52 one of the silly people. Own it. Own it. That's the beauty of the gospel. The beauty of the gospel 0.98

00:45:59 is that it's free grace. It's free forgiveness. But the thing is, you have to ask. You have to

00:46:05 ask. Jesus doesn't forgive people who don't need forgiveness. Now, of course, objectively, there is

00:46:10 no one who doesn't need forgiveness. But my point is that part of receiving Christ's forgiveness

00:46:16 is acknowledging that you actually need his forgiveness and you acknowledge that through

00:46:21 repentance, faith and repentance, two sides of the same coin, faith and repentance, faith turning to

00:46:28 Christ and repentance turning from sin. And when we turn from sin, we turn from it in our deed.

00:46:35 We stop doing those things. We start doing these things and we turn from our sin in our word.

00:46:40 we acknowledge what we did. We acknowledge that it's wrong. We acknowledge why it's wrong.

00:46:45 And we begin to sing a different tune. And a lot of Christians did not do that. A lot of Christians 0.85

00:46:51 still have not done that. A lot of Christians still have not admitted that it was wrong for 0.96

00:46:57 them to go to BLM rallies. A lot of Christians, and they were there, but they said, right, 0.95

00:47:02 the black square is no longer on their Instagram or their Facebook page. And maybe some of those

00:47:07 posts have been deleted and it's all gone down the memory hole, but they, they haven't actually

00:47:11 come out and said, I was on this side. That was wrong. Now I'm on this side. It's not in word.

00:47:18 There's change in actions, hoping that nobody will notice, but not repentance in word. And so I'm not

00:47:24 saying that Kossi was the most woke of the woke. Um, but I am saying that, yeah, there was a minute

00:47:29 there where I was a little bit confused. I didn't know what side he was on. And, and, and, and I

00:47:35 don't know what Michael O'Fallon said, right? All of this is a legend. I wasn't a fly on the wall.

00:47:41 I'm not an eyewitness. And so I can't testify to, maybe Michael O'Fallon took it too far. Maybe he

00:47:46 was gossiping. Maybe he did slander Costi. Those are the accusations that Costi made in his podcast.

00:47:52 Maybe that's true, but I don't know if that's true. What I do know that is true though,

00:47:56 is that Costi was too weak on some of these things. And can I just say one more, one more

00:48:02 little ditty. It's easy to call out the prosperity gospel. Let's just be honest. Like, Kossi, bro,

00:48:12 it's easy to call out your uncle. Now, I understand it's harder for you in the sense that this is

00:48:16 your family. But in terms of just doctrine, in general, I could, my YouTube page could have

00:48:28 four times the followers and four times the views and never be in any threat or any danger

00:48:34 of being kicked off of a social media platform or receiving some kind of penalty or anything

00:48:40 like that if I devoted the entirety of my ministry to calling out the prosperity gospel, 0.77

00:48:46 to calling out heretics in terms of Joyce Myers, Joel Osteen, Benny Hinn,

00:48:53 um, Kenneth Hagey, you know, these kinds of guys, if, if that's what I was doing and that's all I

00:49:00 was doing, um, I would have a bigger following. I know I would because, because I do some of that.

00:49:07 And those are the videos that have the most views. I'd have a bigger following and less danger.

00:49:14 But when you start calling out the heresy, not just of Benny Hinn and prosperity, um,

00:49:19 hucksters, but you start calling out the heresy of the state.

00:49:25 And you start talking about vaccines, the things you're not allowed to say that now are proven

00:49:31 true, right? Right. Hey, can I borrow some of your conspiracies? Cause all of mine came true,

00:49:35 right? The difference between the conspiracy and the truth is what three to six months,

00:49:38 right? Like, like the vaccines actually affect, they actually transmit the MRNA actually gets

00:49:45 through to an infant that's nursing if the mother has been vaccinated in the breast milk. That was

00:49:51 said, you were kicked off of YouTube. You were kicked off of Twitter if you said those things.

00:49:58 And now it is a proven fact, right? And so, yeah, we need to call out prosperity teachers because

00:50:04 believing a false gospel is an eternal matter. So I'm not saying it's insignificant. It is an

00:50:11 eternal matter, it will send someone to hell. But we also need to talk about medical tyranny.

00:50:18 And we need to talk about civil tyranny. And we need to talk about mutilating and transing kids. 0.99

00:50:24 And we need to talk about Governor Gavin Newsom. And we need to talk about abortion. And we need 1.00

00:50:30 to talk about abolition. And we need to talk about how if abortion really is murder, and Christians 0.99

00:50:36 are going to be consistent, then the mother who chooses to abort her child is not a victim, 0.78

00:50:42 but rather should be penalized under the law as a murderer. See, those are the things that get

00:50:49 your videos banned. Those are the things where instead of having an audience of 100 people,

00:50:55 it dwindles immediately down to 10. Because everybody agrees with you about the prosperity

00:51:02 gospel, right? You started calling out your uncle and you got accolades, but you start calling out

00:51:10 critical race theory. And especially, you know, now it's starting to be a little bit cool, but

00:51:16 you do that back in 2018 and 2019. And you're accused of being quarrelsome. You're accused of

00:51:24 being arrogant. You're accused the same way you, Kosti, accused Doug Wilson. One of the things

00:51:32 that Kosti tweeted, for more context, is that he said, because Eric Kahn was addressing him with

00:51:38 this, Eric Kahn, part of Kings Hall podcast and Hard Man podcast, and we've had him on our podcast,

00:51:45 but Eric Kahn said, like, are you saying that Doug Wilson is a heretic? Are you saying he's

00:51:49 a false teacher. I just want to know for clarification. And Costi said, no, I don't

00:51:54 think he's a heretic. I just don't think he should be a pastor. He should be in politics,

00:51:58 not in the pulpit. Why? Costi's beef was not federal vision. It wasn't doctrinal. It wasn't

00:52:07 a claim that Doug Wilson denies or doesn't deny sola fide. No, Costi's claim was that Doug Wilson

00:52:15 uses bad words sometimes. And the particular bad word that Costi referenced is a bad word that

00:52:25 Doug Wilson used in an article when he was quoting someone else who used that word.

00:52:31 And for that reason, according to Costi, Doug is not a heretic, but Doug is disqualified from

00:52:38 ministry. And the reality is that, you know, I don't know if you guys remember Jeff Durbin,

00:52:46 when he preached at Fight, Laugh, Feast conference, the first conference they ever did,

00:52:49 right? And he used strong language likened to the language, this was his primary text that he used

00:52:56 to exposit, likened to the language of Ezekiel, where Ezekiel talks about Israel whoring herself 0.73

00:53:05 out and that harlots typically get paid for the oldest profession of prostitution. But in the case

00:53:13 of Israel, Ezekiel, the prophet says, guided by God, God is telling Ezekiel to say this,

00:53:19 you don't get paid for whoring yourself around, but you'll actually pay your lovers. You'll pay 0.66

00:53:27 them to whore around and to be an adulterer towards your husband, the Lord. And Jeff Durbin 1.00

00:53:35 took that language and that text and applied it to the woke, progressive, insane Christianity. 0.95

00:53:45 And it was a good sermon. It was. And he got a ton of flack. And that's the very same thing that 0.93

00:53:52 Costi is, so, so is Jeff Durbin disqualified from ministry? I just, I want to know. Like,

00:53:59 because you would have to, by that standard, right? By what standard, Costi? You would have

00:54:04 to say that, you know, well, I don't think Doug's a heretic, but he's not qualified to be a minister.

00:54:08 He should be a politician and not a pastor. Well, you'd also have to say that about Jeff Durbin.

00:54:15 And then my question is, is this really coming from a biblical standard? Are we actually

00:54:19 biblically defining what it means to be quarrelsome? Because notice the apostle Paul, he indicts a ton

00:54:24 of people for being quarrelsome, upsetting whole households, causing division, introducing division,

00:54:31 and the same group that he describes as that, the authors, the source of quarrels and division that

00:54:37 upsets whole households and splits the church, are the same guys, Paul says, that their speech

00:54:44 is smooth he doesn't say they're divisive because they use the c word no they're divisive despite

00:54:52 the fact that they have the smoothest speech around what makes them quarrelsome is not their

00:54:57 tone but their content what makes them quarrelsome is so paul would use strong language defending

00:55:05 the faith and he was deemed by many as a one who stirs up riots i understand that one of the

00:55:12 qualifications for an elder is that he should have a good reputation with outsiders. But how do we

00:55:16 define it, Costi? Because the same Paul who wrote that qualification, underneath the inspiration of

00:55:22 the Spirit, that an elder in God's church should have a good reputation with outsiders, outsiders

00:55:28 called Paul a one who stirs up riots, and he was often thrown in prison for disturbing the peace.

00:55:35 He did not have a good reputation. So whatever Paul means by having a good reputation with

00:55:40 outsiders as a qualification for elders, it can't mean that everybody thinks he's a nice guy.

00:55:47 And when you start citing, examining Moscow as a, as a evidence that somebody is quarrelsome or

00:55:56 somebody's rhetoric is off or that they're not qualified to be a pastor, but rather should just

00:56:01 be a politician, then you just, you're, you're way off. You're way off. And so, yeah, I,

00:56:10 Michael O'Fallon, I don't know him, right?

00:56:14 But what I can say is that he was right.

00:56:17 I don't know if every way he handled things

00:56:21 and every way he conducted himself

00:56:23 and every conversation he had behind closed doors is right.

00:56:27 I'm not speaking to that because I wasn't there.

00:56:29 But his position and his overarching general position

00:56:33 of this is bad and sounding the alarm

00:56:37 before anyone else, he was right.

00:56:40 Why can't we say it?

00:56:41 Why can't we just say that?

00:56:43 Why can't we honor those whom honor is due?

00:56:47 He was right.

00:56:49 And the Lord used him.

00:56:52 And Kosti, I'm not saying you were on the left,

00:56:53 but you were suspiciously quiet.

00:56:57 And you have courage when it comes to the prosperity gospel.

00:57:04 But we needed courage with some of these issues.

00:57:07 And not now.

00:57:09 once the tide is already turning. We don't need opportunists to come and run out in front of the

00:57:15 conservative parade and act like they engineered it. No, we needed guys when the parade wasn't

00:57:20 happening, when everyone was scared and when everyone was confused and when there was no

00:57:27 army. We needed guys then to sound the alarm and to rally the troops. And Michael O'Fallon did that.

00:57:35 And whatever he did after that, I don't know.

00:57:39 But for what I do know, that he saw things and he sounded the alarm and he began to call

00:57:46 people's attention to something that matters.

00:57:48 It matters in scripture.

00:57:50 It matters in this world.

00:57:51 It matters to our nation.

00:57:52 It matters to the church.

00:57:54 Yeah, he deserves hats off to you, Michael O'Fallon.

00:57:58 um and in terms of saying we don't need james lindsey um i wish that that were had been true

00:58:06 again i would agree with that statement if we just altered it slightly we shouldn't have needed

00:58:12 the evangelical church shouldn't have needed james lindsey but we did and that's an indictment not 0.84

00:58:19 on the church for its unholy alliances that's an indictment on the church for its foolishness 0.99

00:58:24 and naivety. And we don't need Doug Wilson with the culture war. Apparently we do. Apparently we 0.95

00:58:30 do. And instead of making statements about who we don't need and why you don't like them,

00:58:36 why don't you just prove that we don't need them by having a spine yourself

00:58:41 and take a 10th of the courage that you have with Joyce Myers and Benny Hinn and apply it

00:58:50 to the area where there actually is consequences, where your accounts can get shut down,

00:58:56 where you can get fined. Take a 10th of your courage against Benny Hinn and apply it to

00:59:04 courage against Gavin Newsom, against Joe Biden, against Nancy Pelosi, and call out big tech

00:59:15 while you're at it and call out their shadow banning, call out their unequal weights and

00:59:23 measures. That's the fight. The prosperity gospel is a heresy. It takes millions to hell. Yes,

00:59:31 that's true. We got to keep saying that, but we can't only say that. We can't only say that

00:59:37 when there's this other fight that wants to take your kids away. They do.

00:59:45 That's not extreme hyperbole.

00:59:48 They do.

00:59:50 In Canada, we've seen fathers separated from their children

00:59:54 because the father won't use the preferred pronouns

00:59:57 of a 14-year-old.

01:00:00 That's coming.

01:00:01 That's here.

01:00:02 That's being taught in our schools. 1.00

01:00:04 It's drag queen story hour. 1.00

01:00:07 My God.

01:00:09 God, we need you.

01:00:10 We need your help.

01:00:12 And one of the things we need from God

01:00:14 is courage in men, not just to fight against prosperity gospel preachers, but to fight

01:00:25 against people who actually hold real institutional power, to fight against guys who can punch back.

01:00:35 It's one thing to fight against these guys over here that they don't do anything. You can call

01:00:40 out Benny Hinn. You can call out Joel Osteen and there's no repercussions. There's not. The videos

01:00:47 get thousands of views and there's no practical threat. But you start calling out things like

01:00:55 vaccines and that it affects women's menstrual cycles because it does. And you start saying

01:01:05 those things before you're told you're allowed to say it by the New York Times, man, that's a fight.

01:01:16 There's repercussions there. That one, that takes courage, takes a lot of courage, but it's so

01:01:22 needed. And so, yeah, we did need James Lindsay. I wish we didn't. And when it comes to partnering

01:01:31 with someone, there's just, we got to understand this, guys. We got to be able to do theological

01:01:35 triage. We have to be able to understand this. It's just way too simplistic to say we cannot

01:01:40 partner with someone unless they hold to all of our doctrine. No, the question is what are we

01:01:46 partnering with them in and what are we partnering with them to do? You can partner, you can partner

01:01:55 with someone to abolish abortion who is not a Calvinist. And you can partner with someone to

01:02:03 abolish abortion who is not a Christian. You can't. And that doesn't mean that you've given 1.00

01:02:10 up the gospel. That does not necessarily, it could, but it does not necessarily prove

01:02:17 that you've compromised on the gospel. So yes, I'm with you. I think Kossi, his general heart was,

01:02:26 I don't want to win the cultural political war, but in the process, forfeit and lose the doctrinal

01:02:33 war. I agree. I agree. But that's not what's happening. Again, it's gaslighting. It's just 0.88

01:02:41 this, that's not what's happening. The big issue right now is not that you've got a bunch of

01:02:47 gospel-centered reformed guys compromising the gospel. That's what a few guys want to make it

01:02:54 sound like. I know R. Scott Clark thinks that. He wants to say everybody's following Doug Wilson

01:02:59 and not on his cultural rhetoric, but on his federal vision. And they're denying solely

01:03:03 feeding. That's just, that's, that's just not what's happening. That's what the left does.

01:03:10 That's what Democrats do. That's their playbook. That's their rhetoric, right? They take 1%

01:03:15 of what's actually going on and make it the headline, right? That's what the Pharisees did.

01:03:20 Jesus literally indicted the Pharisees and said, you strain out gnats, but swallow camels.

01:03:26 no no the the big pervasive epidemic in the in the evangelical church today is not that a ton

01:03:35 of people are becoming getting on board with federal vision no no what's happening is that

01:03:41 a ton of people are holding fast to the gospel by grace alone through faith alone in christ alone

01:03:47 according to the scripture alone to the glory of god alone and for the first time they're actually

01:03:52 applying the scripture, not just to their privatized quiet time or the home in the church,

01:03:57 but to the civil arena. And they're listening to guys who have been leading that charge for

01:04:03 decades because they actually have some wisdom and everybody else who's still a pietist and 0.66

01:04:08 just wants to call out the prosperity gospel and talk about, you know, sola gratia and sola fide

01:04:13 and doesn't ever want to talk about any cultural political issue whatsoever that they want to be

01:04:18 pietist and radical two kingdom guys, they're losing their audience and they're just jealous.

01:04:24 R. Scott Clark is jealous. That's what's going on. That's what's going on. A bunch of guys

01:04:31 are finally starting to wake up and say, we want all of Christ for all of life. We want to apply

01:04:37 the whole counsel of God to the whole of human society. We want to follow Jesus like the Puritans, 1.00

01:04:43 full obedience to God in everything. 0.98

01:04:46 Can you overdo it?

01:04:47 Are there ditches that you can fall into?

01:04:49 Sure, but that is the general direction

01:04:51 that we wanna go because Christ is calling us there.

01:04:54 And we're not going there as a substitute for the gospel.

01:04:57 We're not giving up the gospel

01:04:58 to start applying God's law.

01:05:01 No, we can do both, law and gospel.

01:05:05 And guys are in droves hopping onto that.

01:05:09 That's why guys listen to this podcast.

01:05:11 That's why guys listen to Doug Wilson.

01:05:14 And if you don't like it,

01:05:15 why don't you just start doing it?

01:05:17 Why don't you join us?

01:05:20 Why don't you take a stand?

01:05:23 I'm not Federal Vision.

01:05:24 There's things with Doug's doctrine I don't like,

01:05:26 but I don't think he's a heretic.

01:05:28 I don't think he denies sola fide.

01:05:31 Guys will say, well, he never retracted Federal Vision.

01:05:34 He just stops using the language.

01:05:35 But he said, I believe all the things I used to believe

01:05:38 and I just don't use the language.

01:05:39 One thing you need to understand about Federal Vision,

01:05:41 and I've looked into it somewhat extensively, there was a sliding scale. Not everybody who

01:05:45 adhered to federal vision and wore the hat was to the same degree. Doug was federal vision light.

01:05:53 He always was. And so when he says, I'm not using the language, but I still believe these things,

01:05:57 he's not denying soul of feeding. I understand John Moffat. I understand Theo Cass, and I

01:06:03 understand why they would go against Doug Wilson because they're notorious antinomians.

01:06:07 and i do want to say that publicly um theocast uh completely denies i don't know about recently

01:06:16 but i used to listen to them they completely deny the third use of god's law and that's why

01:06:21 they only understand god's law is bad news so i would disagree with doug in terms of i hold to a

01:06:27 law gospel distinction in the text not just in the heart not just the person that's reading it

01:06:32 I actually believe in a law gospel hermeneutic.

01:06:36 I do hold to that.

01:06:37 However, I disagree with John Moffitt and the theocast guys in terms of, I'm not going

01:06:42 to say that the law is exclusively bad news.

01:06:45 The law is bad news in its first use.

01:06:48 This is just basic reform theology.

01:06:49 In its first use, the law reveals to us the holiness of God by way of contrast, by way

01:06:55 of consequence, it reveals to us our sinfulness and therefore our need for a savior.

01:06:59 So the law reveals that there's a holy God, I'm a sinful man, and that I'm under the wrath

01:07:03 of God, that I stand condemned apart from a substitute.

01:07:07 And the law then, in that sense, drives me to Christ.

01:07:10 The bad news of the law drives me to the good news of the gospel.

01:07:13 Yes and amen.

01:07:14 But that's speaking of the law exclusively in only one of its uses, namely its first

01:07:19 use.

01:07:20 But the third use of the law is that it's a lamp unto my feet.

01:07:23 David didn't just acknowledge the moral rightness of God's law, but he delighted in its

01:07:29 practical usefulness and goodness. It's tangible goodness that it leads to life. It revives the

01:07:36 soul. And David says, thy law is a lamp unto my feet. Okay. So what's the alternative? If there's

01:07:43 a lamp unto your feet, light, light, it lights the path. Okay. What's the alternative? The absence

01:07:49 of God's law, darkness. Okay. Is a lamp good news in the context of pitch black darkness?

01:07:56 yeah the lamp is good it's good it's not gospel good news it's not saving in terms of justification

01:08:05 by grace alone through faith alone and christ alone but but the law of god is good david says

01:08:11 that it is holy and good and right so the the law of god is is distinct from gospel i i do want to

01:08:20 hold a distinction between law and gospel i don't think the distinction is only in in the ears of

01:08:25 the hearer or the heart, but I believe there actually is a law gospel hermeneutic in the

01:08:29 text. But all that being said, that doesn't mean that all law is only ever bad news and gospel is

01:08:37 the only good news. No, the gospel is the good news, capital T, the good news. But the law is

01:08:44 bad news insofar as its first use that drives us to Christ and the gospel, revealing the holiness

01:08:51 of God, our sinfulness and need of a savior, but the law then for the Christian becomes good news

01:08:56 in its third use because it shows us not the path to salvation, but the path from salvation into

01:09:02 sanctification, which ordinarily, not 100% of the time prosperity gospel, but ordinarily obedience

01:09:08 brings not only eternal blessing, but tangible blessings in this life as well. And that lamp

01:09:15 unto my feet as an alternative to pitch black darkness is good news in its third use.

01:09:22 That's where I'm at theologically. And I think Doug in very many ways, that's where he's at.

01:09:28 Now, the only thing that Doug would disagree with is the law gospel distinction in the text. He

01:09:34 would say, yes, law gospel distinction, 100%. But he wouldn't hold to it in the text. And there I

01:09:41 would disagree with him. And I do think there are some problems with that. But I don't think

01:09:44 hearing him, and I've read a ton of Doug Wilson, listened to a ton of his sermons, he's not denying

01:09:50 salvation by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone. For justification, Doug Wilson

01:09:57 is orthodox. He is not a false teacher. I don't like all of his doctrine. He's not a false teacher.

01:10:03 so Kossi in that sense was right to at least not go the federal vision false teacher heretic route

01:10:12 but still wrong to say yeah but you know I know you've been fighting this dragon alone because

01:10:19 nobody else will join you but I don't like your sword technique I think your sword technique was

01:10:24 a little harsh a little harsh sword fighting there you got your hands dirty what's that on

01:10:30 you know, like we need to fight, but, but you can't get your hands dirty. What is that on your

01:10:34 hands? Oh, that's the blood of dragons that I've been slain. That's why my hands are dirty. I'm

01:10:41 sorry. Let me go to the washroom real quick, the little boy's room, and then I'll come back and we

01:10:46 can have a civilized conversation. I, there's, there's problems with this. There are problems.

01:10:53 And like I said, at the very beginning, I gave a long and healthy disclaimer.

01:10:57 Costi, from what we can tell, has repented.

01:11:00 He repented from wrapping up G3 ministries in this

01:11:03 because Michael O'Fallon sits on the board.

01:11:06 Sounds like he's gonna handle Michael O'Fallon personally,

01:11:08 which is, that's what it always was,

01:11:10 a personal grievance and needs to be personal,

01:11:12 one-on-one and not public.

01:11:14 And with Doug,

01:11:15 Costi's supposed to be talking to Doug Wilson today

01:11:17 and talking to him about some of his critiques

01:11:20 with Doug Wilson,

01:11:21 and hopefully they can get some kind of unity,

01:11:24 Some kind of reconciliation with that.

01:11:26 I really hope so.

01:11:28 But the reason why I bring this whole thing up

01:11:29 is not just to pick on costing.

01:11:32 You know, if you're tuning in just now,

01:11:34 I said a lot of positive things about costing

01:11:36 for the first 25 minutes.

01:11:38 The reason why I'm bringing it up

01:11:39 is because costing represents a lot of people.

01:11:42 There are a bunch of people who are like,

01:11:44 man, Doug Wilson has something to say

01:11:46 and we should have been listening to him.

01:11:49 Michael O'Fallon has something to say.

01:11:50 We should have been listening to him.

01:11:51 These things matter.

01:11:52 We need to get involved.

01:11:53 And there are guys who are actually leading the way and guys who are actually articulating

01:11:57 how to apply all of Christ to all of life, a Christian ethic, right?

01:12:02 The first thousand years of church history, we're nailing out doctrine of God, hypostatic

01:12:05 union, two natures of Christ.

01:12:07 And the next thousand years of church history, we're nailing out justification, right?

01:12:11 Justification by grace alone through faith.

01:12:13 But we don't ever need to drift past the gospel, forget the gospel, or substitute something

01:12:18 else for the gospel.

01:12:19 All that's heresy.

01:12:20 But for the next thousand years of church history,

01:12:22 maybe we could talk about ethics.

01:12:26 Maybe we could talk about ethics in the silver realm,

01:12:28 in the public sphere.

01:12:29 Maybe we could talk about not just the doctrine of God

01:12:33 and Christ and his two natures,

01:12:34 and then the gospel, what Christ has done,

01:12:36 person of Jesus, work of Jesus.

01:12:38 That gets you 2,000 years of church history.

01:12:40 Now maybe we could talk about the kingdom of Jesus,

01:12:44 the kingdom of Jesus.

01:12:45 And there are a few guys who are talking about that.

01:12:47 And so, yeah, a bunch of people are coming out of the woodworks and saying, maybe they've got something to say and they want to learn from them.

01:12:54 And because of that, a bunch of other people are coming out and saying, well, he's got a potty mouth.

01:13:01 Well, federal vision.

01:13:05 Well, no, I think Big Eva is just falling apart.

01:13:11 I think the gatekeepers are losing their credibility and their control.

01:13:17 And I think a lot of people just are jealous.

01:13:20 I think that's what it is.

01:13:22 I really do.

01:13:24 And so I hope that by God's grace,

01:13:26 that this pattern continues.

01:13:27 I hope that we don't lose anything in the process.

01:13:30 I agree.

01:13:30 We don't want to win a political cultural war

01:13:32 at the expense of a doctrinal war.

01:13:34 But I do think there's a way to partner with people

01:13:37 that we don't agree with on everything,

01:13:38 but to partner with them specifically in one thing

01:13:41 for a cause of Christ,

01:13:43 even if we disagree on the person and work of Jesus

01:13:46 and still being faithful and holding fidelity

01:13:49 with our gospel witness,

01:13:51 I think there's a way to do that.

01:13:53 I think the church historically has done that

01:13:55 and is doing that now.

01:13:58 And from time to time,

01:13:59 we're gonna need some loving pastoral warnings

01:14:00 to call us back to first things, to main things.

01:14:06 But we need sola scriptura and tota scriptura.

01:14:10 Only the scripture, but all of the scripture.

01:14:14 And when we look at all of the scripture,

01:14:16 all of Christ for all of life,

01:14:17 the whole counsel of God for the whole of human society,

01:14:21 there's a lot of things that the church

01:14:24 has just been impotent in.

01:14:27 There's a lot of things that the scripture speaks to

01:14:29 that we just haven't applied.

01:14:31 We just haven't applied.

01:14:32 So, all right.

01:14:34 Let me tell you real quick.

01:14:35 I do have some more details

01:14:37 about the church planting workshop

01:14:38 that I'm gonna be doing.

01:14:40 Let's go ahead and put that up.

01:14:42 Church planting workshop.

01:14:43 Long title, but I thought it was funny.

01:14:45 How to plant a church since your last church went woke, right?

01:14:48 This is probably the most common email that I get from people saying, look, I don't know

01:14:52 what to do, Pastor Joel.

01:14:53 I can't find a faithful church within a two-hour driving radius of my house.

01:14:57 The church that I'm not a chronic, dissatisfied church hopper.

01:15:00 I was going to this church for 18 years.

01:15:03 The pastor went woke.

01:15:04 He shut down the church.

01:15:04 We can't meet on the Lord's Day as a church, but I see his Instagram account, and he's

01:15:10 at BLM rallies in the summer of love 2020.

01:15:12 what do I do? And so this workshop is primarily going to be for individuals

01:15:17 how to plant a church in their home that's biblical. How to have a small church, albeit,

01:15:25 but a church with a few other like-minded families, right? Maybe it's like, we can't

01:15:29 find a church, but I've got three or four other families that we agree about what is biblical

01:15:34 doctrine. And we agree, like the sons of Issachar, we know the times. We know what time it is.

01:15:40 We love Christ.

01:15:41 We love his gospel.

01:15:42 We want to be a faithful church.

01:15:44 This is going to be a workshop that tells you, how do I plant a church with just a few

01:15:47 families in my living room?

01:15:50 That would be a small church, but a thoroughly biblical church that meets every biblical

01:15:55 criteria there is.

01:15:56 So I'm going to do this in four weeks.

01:15:58 It's going to be an hour and a half each session, 45 minutes on the front end of a lecture,

01:16:03 and then 45 minutes on the back end of Q&A.

01:16:07 45 minutes on the front end is going to be a lecture.

01:16:09 45 minutes on the back end is going to be Q&A.

01:16:12 I think it'll be helpful for all kinds of different doctrinal distinctions that you might have.

01:16:17 I think it'll be helpful for Presbyterians.

01:16:19 But that said, I want to give this disclaimer.

01:16:22 I'm going to be doing this from the perspective and the church polity of the 1689.

01:16:27 I'm a Reformed Baptist, a particular Baptist.

01:16:29 That is going to be the viewpoint doctrinally that I'm going to be presenting.

01:16:33 how to plant a Reformed Baptist church.

01:16:36 A lot of the principles have far-reaching implications

01:16:39 and are broad enough that they would encompass

01:16:41 other Lutheran or Presbyterian,

01:16:44 but I am going to be doing this

01:16:45 from a Reformed Baptist angle, okay?

01:16:48 So this is gonna be on Monday nights.

01:16:51 It's gonna be four Mondays in a row

01:16:52 at 8 p.m. Central Time.

01:16:54 It's gonna start November 28th,

01:16:56 and then it'll be December 5th, the 12th, and the 19th.

01:17:00 And we are officially ready.

01:17:01 I've been talking about it for a couple weeks now,

01:17:03 but we're officially ready for people to register online. So if you're interested in taking this

01:17:08 course, it's going to be a closed course. Only a few people, it's not going to be public. It's

01:17:11 something that you're going to register for. There's only going to be a few people that are

01:17:14 actually signed up. It's going to be in a closed room and I'm going to be addressing your questions

01:17:18 and speaking to you. Okay. So it's a closed group. It's rightresponseministries.com forward slash

01:17:24 church plant. If you want to sign up, it's rightresponseministries.com forward slash

01:17:30 church plant. Again, our first session is going to be Monday, November 28th, an hour and a half

01:17:36 on Mondays at 8 p.m. to 9.30 p.m. I'm also going to be emailing all the people who participate in

01:17:42 this and sign up for the course. I'm going to be emailing you my church's bylaws and constitution,

01:17:47 our membership covenant, our general statement of faith. I'm going to be giving you as many

01:17:52 documents as possible for you to actually, well, to actually covenant, formally covenant

01:17:59 your local church body together.

01:18:03 So that's what that is.

01:18:05 Last thing I just wanna mention also is the conference.

01:18:08 Nathan, let's go ahead and pull that up.

01:18:09 We've got our conference coming up.

01:18:11 I'm really excited.

01:18:11 We've already got over 100 people registered,

01:18:14 but I said this recently, I'm gonna say it again.

01:18:16 The price is about to go up.

01:18:17 We are charging $100 for an adult, which is nothing.

01:18:22 That is nothing.

01:18:22 Most conferences of this caliber,

01:18:25 three-day conference would be 180 bucks

01:18:27 all the way up to 180 to 250, it's $100 right now if you're an adult. If you're a teenager

01:18:34 or older, you know, big kid from 11 years old through 17 years old coming with your parents,

01:18:41 it's $50. And if you're a kid 10 and under, it's zero. That price is going to go up though.

01:18:47 We are going to raise the price from 100 to 130 and the price is going to go up starting November

01:18:53 1st. So the month of October this month is your very last month to register at this price. 50

01:18:58 bucks for a teenager, a hundred dollars for an adult. It's James White. It's Gary DeMar. It's

01:19:05 Joe Boot. And it's yours truly, the whole conference focusing on theonomy and post

01:19:10 millennialism. Again, that's theonomy and post millennialism. The dates of the conference is

01:19:15 May 5th, 6th, and 7th. That's a Friday, Saturday, and Sunday of 2023, the year of our Lord,

01:19:22 2023 next year. I would love to see you guys there. I'm sorry that I was not able to take

01:19:28 any questions today. Next week, my plan is to be able to do just Q&A, but this costly thing has

01:19:34 been just all over Twitter and a lot of people have asked me about it. I know that I didn't

01:19:39 take questions in part because everything that I'm talking about was actually answering a lot

01:19:44 of questions I've already received. I've gotten a lot of emails and there's been a lot of people

01:19:47 just saying, what do we do with this? Is Doug really scary? Should we stay away from Doug Wilson?

01:19:52 you know, what's Costi Hinn doing? What's up with that? And what about Michael O'Fallon?

01:19:58 What about G3 Ministries? What's going on? And I think, you know, I'll leave it with this in

01:20:04 conclusion. In a nutshell, what's going on is we're seeing all those Vodibachum fault lines

01:20:09 that he told us about. We're seeing the tectonic plates continue to shift. And guys in the middle,

01:20:18 I think Costi, his frustration is I really think he was trying to do the splits. I'm not saying

01:20:23 that he was actually woke, but I think at least relationally and in terms of partnerships and

01:20:27 those kinds of things, he just, and basically we're living in a time, a cultural moment

01:20:32 where you're just, you're not allowed to be quiet. Everyone's going to have to pick a side.

01:20:39 Every pastor, every theologian, every politician, what's happening in our nation, in the evangelical

01:20:47 church, in the realm of politics, in the realm of news media. What's happening in a nutshell is this,

01:20:54 the middle is falling out. No more middle. Everything is polarized. And that's not

01:21:02 necessarily bad. Yeah, it's divisive. Yeah, it's intense. Yeah, it's uncomfortable. But the reason

01:21:07 why things are polarized is because finally in God's providence and his mercy, I might add,

01:21:13 We're finally seeing sin for what it really is.

01:21:16 We're finally seeing wickedness for what it really is.

01:21:19 We're actually seeing that our battle's not with flesh and blood, but principalities.

01:21:23 This stuff is demonic, demonic ideology, demonic policies, demonic doctrines, demonic ministries.

01:21:32 And as these things just become increasingly visible with every new news cycle, right?

01:21:37 Something comes out and people take a side.

01:21:40 with all this stuff going on, what's happening is that the middle ground is eroding. There is no

01:21:45 more middle ground. If you're in the middle ground, the earth is going to open up and swallow you

01:21:50 alive. You're going to have to pick a side. And I think what we're seeing with all this kind of

01:21:56 stuff is guys are starting to pick a side. And then there's bickering and there's fighting and

01:22:00 there's slander and there's accusations being hurled by this side to that side and vice versa.

01:22:05 So, um, but a lot of guys are just mad because they're still trying to hold the middle.

01:22:12 They're still trying to hold the middle and it's just not going to work.

01:22:15 They're getting mad at Doug Wilson because he's just been, he's been visibly and unapologetically

01:22:20 on one side, namely, I believe Christ's side, the biblical side and guys are, are gravitating

01:22:27 towards him and losing interest.

01:22:30 They're losing interest as a guys gravitate towards Doug.

01:22:33 They're losing interest in the opportunist

01:22:35 and the guys who are just trying to play the field.

01:22:38 And those guys who are losing followers to Doug Wilson

01:22:41 are getting mad about it.

01:22:43 I think that's a lot of what's going on.

01:22:46 And I hope it continues.

01:22:48 All right, thanks for tuning in.

01:22:50 And I look forward to seeing you guys next week.

01:22:52 God bless.

01:22:52 Thanks so much for listening.

01:22:53 But real quick, before you go, do us a small favor,

01:22:57 take a moment and leave us a five-star review

01:22:59 if you enjoyed the show.

01:23:00 This is undoubtedly the best way that you can help us get this biblically faithful content to as many people as possible.

01:23:08 Thanks so much.

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The NXR Podcast - October 05, 2022

BONUS - Costi Hinn, Michael O’Fallon, Doug Wilson, & The Rarity Of Repentance

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