The NXR Podcast - BONUS - Costi Hinn, Michael O’Fallon, Doug Wilson, & The Rarity Of Repentance

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00:00:18.000 All right, welcome back to another live Q&A on Mondays at 12 p.m. Central Time.

00:00:24.020 Live Q&A with myself, Pastor Joel Webin, host of Right Response Ministries.

00:00:28.120 about, it seems like every other one of these at this point is a Q&A, the entire thing,

00:00:36.220 taking questions from you guys. And then it seems like the other half of the time,

00:00:40.160 there's some kind of topic that I feel strongly needs to be discussed, whether it's something

00:00:47.480 that you're interested in or not. It's something that I feel like needs to be discussed. Today is

00:00:51.940 one of those days, although I am going to get to some questions at the end. But what I want to

00:00:56.700 discuss is the recent kerfuffle, if you want to use that term, with Kosti Hinn on Twitter,

00:01:04.200 as well as his podcast, which is called For the Gospel. So Kosti Hinn, if you're not familiar

00:01:10.560 with him, he has launched into the stratosphere over the last few years within evangelical

00:01:16.780 Christianity, particularly within the Reformed camp, Calvinistic, gospel-centered camp. And a

00:01:24.400 lot of that has to do with his gifting and his heart for the Lord and his character. And a lot

00:01:29.420 of it also has to do with his last name. He is the nephew of the notorious faith healer,

00:01:38.440 word of faith healer, Benny Hinn. And so Kosti kind of came out of the word of faith movement

00:01:44.200 and the heretical doctrines of his uncle began to shed light on the false teaching of the

00:01:50.620 Prosperity Gospel, began to go on other people's podcasts, eventually got into vocational ministry

00:01:56.400 in a supportive pastoral role. He is now church planting, I believe, in the state of Arizona

00:02:01.240 as a teaching pastor, a lead pastor. And the church there is growing by leaps and bounds.

00:02:08.240 He's had speaking engagements all over, including at Grace Community Church, where John MacArthur

00:02:13.880 pastors in Southern California. And so Kosti Hinn has been kind of a rising star. And I

00:02:20.600 I don't mean that necessarily as an inherently bad thing.

00:02:24.160 There are people who lead in the evangelical movement and having some kind of notoriety,

00:02:30.560 some kind of platform does not inherently mean that that person is doing something wrong.

00:02:35.900 So I think God has used Kosti because he's been faithful.

00:02:39.060 I think God has used Kosti because he does have some measure of gifting theological aptitude

00:02:45.520 and gifting to preach.

00:02:47.400 He preached at my church in Southern California when I was pastoring there.

00:02:51.600 I'm now in Central Texas planting a new church.

00:02:54.880 But when I was in Southern California, that's when I first met Costi and he came and preached

00:02:58.820 at my church.

00:03:00.020 He also forwarded the first book that I wrote called Am I Truly Saved?

00:03:05.360 It's a study through 1 John dealing primarily with the topic of assurance of salvation.

00:03:12.460 And Costi wrote the forward for that book, which is interesting because I have a new

00:03:15.740 book that I've been working on that has been forwarded by Doug Wilson. And so I only have two

00:03:20.240 books, one forwarded by Costi Hinn and one forwarded by Doug Wilson, which is a little bit

00:03:26.900 funny because Doug Wilson is one of the names that Costi kind of threw into this royal rumble

00:03:33.640 ring of criticisms online on Twitter. And he also mentioned him in the podcast that he put out. So

00:03:40.360 anyways, that gives you a background with Costi Hinn. I've had the pleasure of spending a little

00:03:45.060 bit of time with him. And yeah, I think that he's gifted and I think he has notoriety and the Lord

00:03:50.860 has exalted him because of his gifting, because of his faithfulness, but also in terms of just

00:03:56.240 practical providence, a big part of it also happens to be his last name. If he was not the

00:04:03.280 nephew of Benny Hinn, I think he would probably be in vocational ministry and probably be faithfully

00:04:09.640 shepherding a flock, a local church, and probably doing some podcasting and writing and all those

00:04:15.460 different things, but probably would not have the level of notoriety and name recognition that he

00:04:23.680 currently does. And the only reason why I mentioned that is to say that I think that that's part of

00:04:29.600 the issue. Sometimes there are guys who just launch into the stratosphere because of some kind

00:04:34.920 of practical, providential, you know, element that is, that is aside from or other than their

00:04:43.520 personal character and gifting. And it gets them into situations that they're just not quite ready

00:04:50.100 for. It puts them into certain arenas and certain platforms before their character or before their

00:05:00.280 theological understanding can actually sustain that level of notoriety. And I think there might

00:05:08.020 be some element of that with Costi Hinn. But as I've said several times, I'll give the disclaimer

00:05:13.200 again, I do believe that he has genuine character. I do believe that he is genuinely faithful. I

00:05:18.380 believe that he genuinely loves the Lord. And I do believe that he has some measure of theological

00:05:23.060 aptitude and pastoral gifting and gifting to preach. Again, he preached at my church when I

00:05:28.740 was in Southern California and he did a wonderful job. So all that being said, I think that Costi

00:05:33.920 is legit. But I also think that he is recognized perhaps as being a little bit more legit than he

00:05:43.100 is. So that's not to say that he has no legitimacy whatsoever, but I think that he has been launched

00:05:47.540 beyond his own capacity due to the fact of his last name. Another example that would be Mark

00:05:53.540 Driscoll. Mark Driscoll didn't have a, you know, a notorious last name, an infamous last name like

00:06:00.860 Costi Hinn with his uncle Benny Hinn. But Mark was business savvy, had just a general, you know,

00:06:07.240 practical knack for business and those kinds of things. And it was with the big dot com push and

00:06:12.320 social media coming on the scene and those kind of and Mark was right there on the cutting edge

00:06:16.700 of recording videos and taking clips of sermons and podcasting was just really becoming a thing.

00:06:27.360 And he was right there on the cutting edge of that with Apple iTunes and those kinds of things.

00:06:31.740 And I think Mark Driscoll would be an example of a guy that because of some of his practical

00:06:36.680 knowledge and optimizing his ministry online as much as possible, his ministry grew bigger than

00:06:46.020 he was really ready to be able to handle. And there are other problems with Mark Driscoll and

00:06:51.480 for the record, to be fair to Mark Driscoll, because it's always fun to beat up on Mark

00:06:55.440 Driscoll. There are other problems with Driscoll and there are also other strengths with Driscoll.

00:07:01.040 The Lord used Driscoll in many wonderful ways for which I am personally grateful for. And so I don't

00:07:06.840 want to just beat up on Driscoll. But I do think that there were some objective problems. So

00:07:11.940 anyways, all that being said, Costi was on Twitter. For those of you who don't know what

00:07:16.500 I'm talking about, well, you're not going to find out because it's all been deleted. And for the

00:07:22.940 record, I don't think that it's, again, I don't think that's something that's inherently wrong

00:07:27.740 to delete a tweet. I've deleted a tweet. Some of you guys may have even seen it. I talked about how

00:07:32.600 no one at my local church that I pastor votes Democrat. And I stand by it. But I deleted the 0.89

00:07:39.320 tweet, not because it's wrong, not because I shouldn't have said it, but because it got picked 1.00

00:07:44.500 up by a bunch of progressive liberal idiots. And I was getting about 20 comments per minute, 1.00

00:07:53.560 maybe even within 30 seconds. And I just couldn't keep up with it. And I didn't want just a string

00:08:00.880 of foolish, blasphemous, progressive, liberal, transing kids comments on my Twitter 1.00

00:08:09.640 account that I wasn't able to respond to. And so it wasn't that I deleted the tweet because I 0.99

00:08:16.520 tweeted it out through fallenness, meaning immaturity or foolishness or sinfulness,

00:08:22.180 but through my finitude, simply being one man, a human being, I just can't keep up

00:08:27.200 with the response. And so that's just the easiest way to undo it. So I don't think it's always wrong

00:08:32.280 to delete a tweet. Brian Sauve has deleted some of his tweets that go viral, that are good for

00:08:38.160 the church, that are theologically sound. It's a good tweet. But he's the guy, if you're not

00:08:43.860 familiar with him, he pastors Refuge Church. He's on the King's Hall podcast, which is a great,

00:08:49.180 great podcast. We've had those guys on our show, Theology Applied, in the past. But Brian, he's a

00:08:56.020 guy who I think he got like 30 million, million impressions within like 48 hours when he tweeted

00:09:02.420 about modesty. And he said that there's no excuse to be immodest. Whether you're in a hospital bed

00:09:08.680 because you just had your first baby or whatever it might be, we don't need to see private parts

00:09:15.880 of your body. And I remember Beth Moore picked it up and said like, this is none of your business.

00:09:21.620 We don't need modesty tips from you. Mind your unders, right? Trying to be cute and snarky. And 0.98

00:09:26.360 of course, Beth Moore would be on the side of defending immodesty with women and feminism 1.00

00:09:32.500 because that's Beth Moore. So, but eventually he deleted that tweet because he's getting phone

00:09:37.280 calls from raging feminists, you know, threatening him. And it's just, it gets out of control. So

00:09:42.560 it's not always wrong to delete a tweet. Costi would be an example. I think, again, a different

00:09:48.660 angle, but an example of this is one of the times when you should delete a tweet. And in his case,

00:09:54.920 it wasn't deleting it because the tweet got out of hand, although he's still standing by

00:10:00.640 the content of what he tweeted. But no, he actually deleted the tweet because he actually

00:10:05.000 changed his mind. He realized that what he tweeted was foolish, and it was. And he tweeted 0.97

00:10:11.700 something else out in its place, namely an apology. And so I want to start with that disclaimer and

00:10:17.540 say that Kosti Hinn, as it currently stands, we'll see how things unfold, but as it currently

00:10:22.640 stands, he sent out two tweets where he apologized in conjunction. He also put out a letter, an

00:10:29.860 official statement in conjunction with G3 Ministries, which he's partnered with and spoken

00:10:34.520 at their conferences in the past and those things. So he put out a letter with G3 Ministries, and he

00:10:39.240 also put out personally with his Twitter account, two tweets basically saying, I'm sorry, I allowed

00:10:45.300 personal grievances to be dealt with in a public form. That was foolish. And then he ended with 0.99

00:10:53.500 what I believe is a Charles Spurgeon quote, where he says, if I don't play by the rules,

00:10:58.480 or if I don't fight by God's rules, then I forfeit the right to fight. And so good on him

00:11:06.720 for that. That was a visible sign of repentance, whether it's genuine repentance, that has to do

00:11:13.000 with the heart, and only God knows that, we're able to detect the degree of authenticity when

00:11:21.580 it comes to someone's repentance over time. And ironically, that's something that Costi has said

00:11:26.640 as well regarding his uncle. There was a time when Benny Hinn, I think it was like maybe two

00:11:31.400 years ago, where he allegedly repented for the prosperity gospel and trying to make money off

00:11:38.820 of, uh, off of preaching the gospel and saying, you know, if you give this amount, uh, then God's

00:11:43.920 going to heal you, or he's going to do this, or you're going to get a raise at work. And so

00:11:47.060 Benny Hinn had this clip that went viral where he was repenting and Costi, this is the irony,

00:11:52.440 Costi himself said, um, when people were asking him, you know, do you think your uncle really

00:11:56.560 repented? He said, uh, time will tell. Um, and so, you know, so it takes time with these things,

00:12:02.960 But him putting out a statement with G3 Ministries, him deleting the old tweets that were contentious and foolish, and I'll get into that in a moment, and him also tweeting out that he was sorry and that he shouldn't have done it, all those are good signs.

00:12:17.420 And the difference between Costi Hinn and Benny Hinn, as far as I can tell, is that one of those guys seems like a bona fide Christian.

00:12:24.060 I'll let you guess which one.

00:12:25.180 So I think that there's a good chance that the repentance is genuine, because that's

00:12:29.880 one of the clear signs of a Christian is that Christians repent.

00:12:34.020 All right. 1.00

00:12:34.280 So all that being said, I have, you know, I have respect for Costi, appreciation for

00:12:39.520 him, especially on the fact that he actually did apologize because that's kind of sets

00:12:46.020 Costi apart from your typical Big Eva, because one of the things that Big Eva doesn't do

00:12:51.080 is apologize. 0.60

00:12:52.960 what big evil will do is just memory hole everything right they they you know they put

00:12:58.100 out some article you know about i don't know something that where they get a ton of pushback

00:13:04.100 you know like roe gets overturned and you know gospel coalition is saying you know let's you

00:13:08.820 know let's uh not beat our chest you know and celebrate or whatever um you know those kinds

00:13:13.860 of things uh where let's be winsome like yeah uh baby murder is going to happen less objectively

00:13:19.960 at a numerical scale in the United States of America after 49 years.

00:13:25.780 And you might think, Christian, who loves God and loves the image of God as you see

00:13:30.460 it in man and wants to defend the sanctity of life for the unborn child, you might think

00:13:34.980 that this is a good thing and you might think that we should celebrate and even publicly

00:13:40.120 celebrate, but you'd be wrong, biblical Christian. 0.55

00:13:43.480 you instead should be more sensitive, you know, and it's not the time to grandstand and beat our

00:13:51.280 chest, right? So, Big Eva does those kinds of things. Gospel Coalition does those kinds of 1.00

00:13:55.700 things. And when they do those things and they get called on it by faithful guys like John Harris or

00:14:01.700 A.D. Robles or whoever, you know, enough people come out against them, then what they'll do is

00:14:07.480 apologize, just like Kosti Hint. Nope. What they'll do is they'll just memory hole everything.

00:14:12.640 It all goes down the memory hole. They delete it. They just change topics, put out a bunch of

00:14:18.860 articles and speeches and podcasts on some other subject, and people forget. That is a good

00:14:26.680 strategy. It's not a godly strategy. It's not what the Bible tells us to do when we actually

00:14:32.680 do something wrong in sin. We should repent, and repentance is both in deed and word. You've heard

00:14:38.620 me talk about this before. When somebody repents, there is indeed, there's actually a change in

00:14:44.980 about face in terms of their actions. They were going one direction, doing one thing, and now

00:14:49.220 they're going to do another. But repentance is not merely in deed, it's also in word, meaning

00:14:54.640 that there is some kind of verbal acknowledgement of wrong. If you send privately against one

00:14:59.200 individual, then all that requires is your word to that one individual, where you acknowledge

00:15:04.800 that you send against them and you apologize and ask for forgiveness. But it can't just be that you

00:15:10.880 were sending against an individual and now you're going to stop sending against that individual in

00:15:14.800 your actions, but you never actually say with words to that individual, I wronged you and I'm

00:15:21.520 sorry, right? You can't just change your actions. You actually need to repent in deed and in word,

00:15:28.320 meaning an acknowledgement of wrongdoing and the level, the size of that word, the audience,

00:15:35.800 the size of the audience that you are repenting in word toward should match the same size of

00:15:42.400 audience that you send against, right? So if you did something wrong publicly, then you should

00:15:48.020 repent, not just in deed, but in word publicly. And Big Eva does not do that. They just count 0.59

00:15:53.920 on you forgetting, right? It's the same playbook. It's the same strategy that the Democrat party

00:15:59.080 would use. And for that matter, the Republican party as well, pretty much just about any

00:16:03.000 politician, right? When they get caught in something, they don't actually retract it.

00:16:07.740 They don't actually apologize for it. They don't actually repent. They just do PR. There's a

00:16:14.520 difference between repentance and just a PR stunt where you memory hole everything and you just wait

00:16:21.860 for people to forget because people will forget. And part of the reason people forget is because

00:16:26.040 we're finite. But part of the reason people forget also is because of just the nature of

00:16:30.320 the internet. We are just bombarded and flooded with so many events and so much data and so much

00:16:36.440 information and so many stories and so much entertainment and so much this and that and the

00:16:40.320 other. Every single second of every minute of every hour of every day that things get buried

00:16:48.020 over time. And it doesn't even take that much time for things to get buried and people just

00:16:53.740 move on, right? They just move on. And so, yeah, so good on Kosti for actually repenting,

00:17:01.460 at least from what we can tell visibly externally, not just in his actions, but also in his words.

00:17:07.400 All right. So you can't go and see the tweets because he deleted him. And as I've already said,

00:17:11.500 I think he deleted them for the right reasons. There are times to delete a tweet. This was one

00:17:15.360 of them. He did the right thing in that regard. But what did he actually say? We talked about

00:17:19.440 Michael O'Fallon and he talked about Doug Wilson. There were other things that were wrapped up into

00:17:25.960 it. He didn't publicly through Twitter talk about G3 Ministries, but he did talk about G3 Ministries

00:17:33.380 on the podcast that he put out. And, you know, he deleted that podcast that same day. Now I got to

00:17:40.020 listen to the whole podcast because I was being proactive about this because I had an interest

00:17:45.940 in it. I wanted to see what was going on and what he was going to say. But basically the plan was,

00:17:52.280 which the plan has now changed and good because it was a bad plan. It needed to change. But the

00:17:57.500 plan was to do a four part series on his podcast for the gospel and to release that, I'm assuming

00:18:04.640 weekly. And, uh, and you know, he ended up, you know, the first episode got such backlash, um,

00:18:11.520 that he ended up deleting it that day. And it seems like the plan has been, you know,

00:18:15.840 for the indefinite future, the plan has been canned. Um, but part of the reason that he got

00:18:21.200 backlash was because in the podcast, not just the tweets, but in the podcast, uh, he wrapped

00:18:26.680 G3 ministries into his grievance. And the way that that works with Michael O'Fallon and Doug

00:18:32.320 Wilson, because those were the main two names in the Twitter verse, which all those tweets have

00:18:37.820 been deleted and the podcast has been deleted. It's all been deleted. But the way that G3 got

00:18:43.940 in there was because Michael O'Fallon, according to Kosti Hinn, I can't verify these things. I don't

00:18:50.680 know a whole lot about G3 ministries. I've got some measure of friendship with Virgil Walker

00:18:55.640 and um and you know we've we've talked and been friendly in the past and um i like josh bice you

00:19:01.620 know i you know g3 ministries is is good in my book um but i'm not intimately involved um so i

00:19:08.740 you know i don't know but the podcast that that the costy hen did he said that basically michael

00:19:14.420 fallon is a board member of g3 ministries and that he is you know rich and he actually said it

00:19:21.320 you know, he said like, uh, well, he's just rich. And if we're going to be faithful to the cause of

00:19:25.660 Christ and these kinds of things, like, yeah, we, we need to fight the culture war and we need to

00:19:30.020 fight against the woke and these kinds of things. But, um, but we can't, uh, we can't, um, make,

00:19:35.820 uh, you know, uh, ungodly wicked alliances and partnerships, um, in order to win this fight.

00:19:44.360 Basically Costi's, his basic premise was this. He said, I don't want to win. I'm paraphrasing,

00:19:50.460 but he said, I don't want to win a political slash cultural war that really does need to be won

00:19:57.280 and really does exist for anybody who says that, you know, the culture war is, you know, doesn't 0.99

00:20:02.020 exist or well, you're dumb, you're wrong. And for anyone who says Christians shouldn't be involved 0.99

00:20:07.220 in the culture war, you're a radical two kingdom pietist who is also dumb and wrong. And so, so 1.00

00:20:14.240 Kosti didn't take either of those approaches. God bless him. You know, he's saying there really is

00:20:18.100 a culture war, culture and political, you know, issues and Christians really do need to be involved,

00:20:22.480 but we can't form unholy alliances in our quest to win. So in a nutshell, he's saying, I don't

00:20:28.000 want to win the culture war, but in the process, lose the doctrine war, the doctrinal war. That's,

00:20:34.620 I think, fair to his position. And what he was saying is like, I don't want to see us align with

00:20:40.080 false teachers just because they agree that abortion is murder, right? So we don't need,

00:20:48.620 you know, and that was kind of his initial tweet that started all this was like, we don't need

00:20:52.360 James Lindsay to fight against CRT. And James Lindsay, if you're not familiar with him,

00:21:00.080 he's a friend of Michael O'Fallon. Michael O'Fallon was the first guy who really introduced

00:21:03.900 James Lindsay to the evangelical church when it came to some of these issues of social justice,

00:21:10.340 CRT, intersectionality, because nobody understood what was going on. Nobody, right? And we forget,

00:21:16.240 right? You talk about the internet and everything just piles up every second of every minute of

00:21:20.360 every hour of every day. We forget it was not that long ago. We're not talking 10 years ago

00:21:25.720 or 20 years ago. We're talking like three years ago. The guys who are speaking out about this

00:21:30.200 stuff, including me, to be fair, we were not well-versed in some of this ideology. We were

00:21:38.620 not experts in Marxism. We didn't know a whole lot about the Frankfurt School. I remember James

00:21:48.640 White being honest and being humble, saying that his daughter, Summer, had to explain to him,

00:21:56.920 to her father, what critical race theory and intersectionality was. And this was not a

00:22:02.740 conversation that they had 30 years ago. This was a conversation they had, you know,

00:22:06.340 in the past few years, because a lot of us were kind of getting caught up to speed. And so

00:22:10.460 I say that to say, we should give honor where honor is due. And Michael O'Fallon really was

00:22:15.980 in many ways, one of the very first, I'm not saying no one, but he, I mean,

00:22:21.620 there was just a handful of people and he was one of the very first individuals

00:22:26.080 who was like, guys, pastors, theologians, seminary professors, we've got a huge problem

00:22:32.780 that is arising. And as soon it's going to be in full force, please listen to me.

00:22:39.940 Please listen to me. So Kossi Hinn, you know, his first kind of notorious tweet that started this

00:22:45.300 whole, this whole quarrel online was we don't need James Lindsay. And this is what I would say,

00:22:55.120 And if Costi listens to this, I don't assume that he will.

00:22:58.160 But if he listens to this, I guess I would just say, but we did need James Lindsay.

00:23:03.880 We did.

00:23:05.340 Because you, Costi, and me, and 99.999% of every other pastor who's now decrying wokeness,

00:23:15.660 we didn't know what the heck was going on back then.

00:23:18.940 We didn't.

00:23:19.840 um and so so i understand that james lindsey is an atheist he was a part of the new atheist

00:23:27.820 movement which is incredibly blasphemous and hates the church and by james lindsey's you know 0.77

00:23:33.420 by his own admission he said yeah i was young and arrogant and foolish and i you know and now i think 0.95

00:23:38.320 he would describe himself as agnostic but he's still not a christian he's still not a christian

00:23:44.220 And that brings into question, like, who can Christians actually partner with?

00:23:51.200 Right?

00:23:51.700 Like, can we partner with James Lindsay when he's seen something that all these pastors

00:23:58.600 in the church are not? 1.00

00:24:00.900 Can we partner with him to try to take down wokeness? 1.00

00:24:06.960 And I would say, yeah, we can.

00:24:09.200 And I'll come back to that because that's a big idea that needs to be fleshed out.

00:24:14.220 know, some explanation and doctrinal, you know, explanation for why.

00:24:19.160 But the first thing that I want to say is the fact that James Lindsay became a regular

00:24:26.020 speaker with Sovereign Nations and Michael O'Fallon and other context, evangelical church

00:24:31.920 context on this topic, I think it speaks far less, far less in regards to the evangelical

00:24:39.860 churches compromise on faithfulness to doctrine. And it speaks far more of an indictment to the

00:24:49.680 evangelical church in being politically and culturally and ideologically clueless, right?

00:24:58.640 The reason why James Lindsay, Michael O'Fallon involved James Lindsay is because no one was

00:25:03.200 listening to Michael O'Fallon. No one, no one in the church, he was being written off.

00:25:09.860 by everyone. He was going to seminaries and he was going to big conferences and he was going in

00:25:16.280 those back rooms, you know, with trust, you know, board members and all these kinds of things and

00:25:22.060 having these conversations and saying, we are in trouble. Sound the alarm, right? He was blowing

00:25:27.420 the trumpet on the wall. The city's under attack and no one listened. No one listened. And so he

00:25:33.860 brought in James Lindsay and, you know, and made some partnerships with some other people

00:25:38.060 who had expertise in this area, who could make more convincing arguments about the danger of

00:25:46.660 these things. Now, James Lindsay doesn't have a solution. He doesn't have a solution because he's

00:25:50.880 not a Christian, because the solution is God's word. The solution to lawlessness is God's law, 0.99

00:25:57.660 not libertarianism, not classic liberalism, not a mere return to the American constitution,

00:26:03.340 which I think is a beautiful document that I love, but a return ultimately to scripture,

00:26:08.280 which is what forged, I believe, and influenced the writing of the constitution. But it's got to

00:26:12.900 be all the way back. We can't just get back to the 1700s. We got to get all the way back

00:26:18.020 to the Bible. And so all that being said, Michael O'Fallon deserves honor because he was sounding

00:26:23.900 the alarm when nobody else would listen. Now, the reason why this became a problem with Costi

00:26:29.720 is because, you know, Costi saying, well, we don't need James Lindsay. And he's pinpointing

00:26:36.400 out, you know, Michael O'Fallon. And then in his podcast, which was only up for a few hours,

00:26:40.720 but if you had the great misfortune of listening to it, like I did in his podcast, the first

00:26:46.760 episode, he said in the second one, he was going to get to Doug Wilson. And so we never got that

00:26:50.420 far. But in the first one, he just blasted Michael O'Fallon. And I don't know Michael

00:26:55.980 O'Fallon personally. And so I'm not going to sit here and say that all of Costi's accusations were

00:27:00.480 false. I'm also not going to say that any of them were true, because I don't know, I'm not going to

00:27:05.200 speak to things that I was not an eyewitness of. But I do know that in general, in general,

00:27:11.740 Michael O'Fallon was blacklisted by a lot of people and sent out to pasture and ignored.

00:27:20.840 I don't think that it was wrong for him to bring James Lindsay into some of these conversations

00:27:25.780 not saying here's the biblical solution, but here, here are some of the problems. And here's

00:27:31.300 what these guys say, right? James Lindsay has read the literature, right? He's, he's even said

00:27:36.320 himself, my superpower, when it comes to fighting wokeism and Marxism and these, my superpower

00:27:41.400 is that I've read their literature and I believe them. That's what James Lindsay has said, his

00:27:48.540 words, my superpower, the reason why I've launched into the stratosphere on this subject and people,

00:27:53.900 you know, deem me to be credible authority on this matter is simply all I've done is read their

00:28:00.420 material and I believe them. I believe that they really are this wicked, that they actually want

00:28:06.700 to do these things. And the reality is that at the time in 2017 and 2018 and 2019, there weren't

00:28:17.120 a lot of solid evangelical pastors who could say that. I've read their material. I am incredibly

00:28:24.780 familiar with the Frankfurt School. I am, you know, familiar with this and familiar with that.

00:28:31.720 And I understand what they're saying. I understand what this means. There just weren't a lot of guys.

00:28:36.520 Voddie Bauckham would be one of the earlier guys. You know, I remember him talking about

00:28:39.920 um, ethnic Gnosticism, ethnic Gnosticism. And, um, and that was, uh, years ago, uh, before this

00:28:47.560 became this nationwide, and now it's just common knowledge, but there was a time where, where you

00:28:53.500 couldn't say these things. And Votie Bauckham said some of these things saying that, you know,

00:28:57.840 standpoint epistemology, this idea that based off of your, you know, your intersections and your,

00:29:04.160 you know, your race and your sexual, you know, proclivities and, and, you know, your gender and

00:29:09.580 all these kinds of things, you will be, you know, higher or lower on the scale of oppression. And 0.51

00:29:14.720 based on how many, you know, how many oppression points you can, you can garnish, then, then you're

00:29:22.100 able to see things more clearly, right? It's epistemology is, you know, how do we know what

00:29:27.680 we know? How do we learn? How do we come by knowledge, right? And standpoint epistemology

00:29:33.660 is basically just saying that there is no transcendent universal truth.

00:29:38.260 We all, it's individual standpoints.

00:29:41.000 Who am I and what is my lived experience?

00:29:43.420 What's my truth, right?

00:29:45.060 And then Vodhi just coined that and said, you know, instead of standpoint epistemology,

00:29:48.600 he just put it in terms of ethnic Gnosticism, right?

00:29:52.820 Gnosticism being that, again, that it's just this mystical, personal, spiritual, ethereal,

00:29:59.700 you know, I had this revelation, or I've been enlightened, that knowledge is gnosis, right?

00:30:06.040 It's secret knowledge. That's what Gnosticism is. It's the secret knowledge that some people have

00:30:11.360 and other people don't have access to based off of whether or not you've been enlightened. And

00:30:15.240 so Votie was just saying, yeah, it's a Gnostic epistemology, and it's based off of ethnicity,

00:30:22.640 ethnic Gnosticism, or standpoint epistemology. And Votie, again, he was one of the first guys

00:30:27.360 talking about this, but a lot of guys weren't listening. They weren't listening. So I would say,

00:30:32.560 you know, to Costi, the first thing I would say, you know, to his comment, we don't need James

00:30:36.420 Lindsay, is I would say, we shouldn't, I almost agree with you, Costi, we shouldn't have needed

00:30:42.840 James Lindsay. I agree with that. We shouldn't have needed James Lindsay, but we did. And I think

00:30:50.020 what that says about the evangelical church is far less about our willingness to compromise

00:30:54.240 in our doctrinal alliances, but it says far more about the evangelical church in terms of an

00:31:00.120 indictment with our naivety, that we were naive and uninformed and uninvolved when it comes to

00:31:10.780 the culture and politics. Part of the reason that we were so uninformed is because of our poor

00:31:16.220 theology in terms of radical two kingdom theology and pietism and that, you know, well, Christian

00:31:22.340 faith just doesn't, you know, have anything in common with politics. We just need to stay out 0.78

00:31:27.160 of the political sphere. You know, we're just sojourners passing through, you know, and

00:31:31.020 this is not our home. And Jesus said, my kingdom is not of this world. And what Jesus meant is that

00:31:38.280 my kingdom's not even in this world. And so Christians shouldn't work towards that. You know, 1.00

00:31:43.060 all these kinds of things, that was just the air that evangelicals were breathing for the most part.

00:31:48.120 That was, you know, that's just, that's what we believed.

00:31:51.760 Most evangelicals would have been in terms of eschatology, they would have been pre-millennial,

00:31:57.800 dispensational pre-millennialism.

00:31:59.680 So not a historic pre-millennialism, but dispensational pre-millennialism, AKA, if

00:32:04.260 you don't know what that means, to some degree or another, it's basically the left behind

00:32:09.880 series, right?

00:32:10.960 So our view of the world was, and our lens, our hermeneutic for reading scripture, for

00:32:16.180 for the most part, not everybody, but for the most part, speaking of the majority of evangelicalism

00:32:20.700 was Jesus is coming back soon. And, and God has ordained and determined that everything's going

00:32:28.240 to get worse until he does come back. And this world is not our home. And we really shouldn't

00:32:34.900 have much of a vested interest in society and politics and legislation. And, and we just kind

00:32:44.400 of need to, you know, stay pure from being defiled by the world and kind of do our own

00:32:50.460 Christian thing. And the only thing that we do with culture at all is just at an individual

00:32:54.920 one-to-one ratio, personal evangelism, personal evangelism. And it's just like, well, man,

00:33:02.740 that's, but that's the mantra. That was the mantra of the evangelical boomers, right? Let's

00:33:07.760 forget the institutions. We don't really need Christian art. We don't really need to fight 0.57

00:33:13.320 the culture war. All we need to do is personal evangelism and reach the lost. Jesus is going to

00:33:19.080 come back in about 15 minutes and everything's going to get worse no matter what we do, because

00:33:23.920 that's what God's decided to try to stop this downward spiral is just to polish brass on a

00:33:30.960 sinking ship. What we really need to do, if anything, is speed up Christ's return. If there's

00:33:35.620 any way to do that, it's to make sure that all the nations have heard the gospel. And so we need to

00:33:40.720 devote ourselves to global missions. So not really building institutions, not really being involved

00:33:45.820 in politics and culture and building culture, but instead we're going to send missionaries around

00:33:51.280 the world. We're going to do global missions. And one of the ways that we're going to be able

00:33:54.560 to afford to fund these global missions is that we're not going to pay for our own children to go

00:33:59.000 to a Christian school or forfeit that double income that we've grown accustomed to by mom

00:34:05.600 no longer working out of the home because now she has to homeschool. So what we're going to do is

00:34:08.820 we're going to put our kids in state schools that teach public atheism. And we're all going

00:34:15.360 to console ourselves by saying, well, yeah, public school is not great, but our public school is not

00:34:18.920 bad. Every single person, do you know that every single Christian at every single public school

00:34:22.820 in the entire country says that their public school is the one public school that's not that 0.72

00:34:26.680 bad? So you do that, and then you devote yourself to global missions, and then all your kids grow up

00:34:32.360 and apostatize and leave the faith. So yeah, that was a bad plan. This, this, this dispensational

00:34:39.980 pre-millennial radical two kingdom distinction between, you know, the church, you know, the

00:34:48.200 sacred and the common, this, this did not work very well for us, did not work very well for us.

00:34:56.440 And so as these things, these forces, demonic forces began to come to a head, a lot of evangelicals missed it, a lot of them, and some of them saw it.

00:35:07.520 And so as it pertains again to Costi and Michael O'Fallon, it's like, well, why is Costi, you know, upset about it?

00:35:14.080 Well, I think, you know, like he said, there's some personal grievances.

00:35:18.900 So some of this is speculation.

00:35:20.840 Okay.

00:35:21.100 But I think it wasn't entirely clear.

00:35:24.960 And I'll just speak for myself.

00:35:26.000 It wasn't entirely clear, even to me, what side of this culture war Costi was on, right?

00:35:34.180 I mean, what have we seen over the last two years, especially over the last two years

00:35:38.920 is we've, we've seen this great divide, right?

00:35:40.980 Votie Bauckham, he came out with his book, Fault Lines and saying, you know, we know

00:35:44.140 the old fault lines, right?

00:35:45.680 The old fault lines of, you know, are you reformed or are you Arminian?

00:35:50.180 Are you Baptist or Presbyterian? 0.73

00:35:51.780 Are you, you know, so it's the Credo Baptist versus Paedo Baptism.

00:35:54.980 It's continuationism versus cessationism, you know, and we had all these different theological doctrinal fault lines and we were willing to put some of those things aside as secondary issues.

00:36:05.140 And that's where you see the emergence of big ministries like Together for the Gospel, right, with Mark Dever and Al Mohler and, you know, Lig Duncan and those kinds of things.

00:36:13.760 And that was kind of, that was just, that was the vibe for a while, for a good, you know, 15, 20 years.

00:36:21.060 But then all of a sudden we realize under the surface, there's some other fault lines,

00:36:25.300 some new fault lines that we weren't aware even existed.

00:36:29.660 Like maybe people are going to care in the near future more about, well, more about abortion

00:36:38.500 than they care about baptism, you know, or maybe people are going to care more about

00:36:45.580 critical race theory than they care about Calvinism, right? And Votie Bauckham was right.

00:36:53.620 And these things became the big dividing lines. And guys that we thought were on our side,

00:37:00.080 all of a sudden, we realize we're not on the same team. Timothy Keller is not on our team.

00:37:09.120 Russell Moore is not on our team at all.

00:37:12.920 He always punches to the right

00:37:15.020 and is always assuaging the conscience of the left.

00:37:19.200 He's not on our team.

00:37:20.760 He's working against the cause of Christ.

00:37:24.480 And so there are guys that we thought

00:37:26.000 we're all together for the gospel, right?

00:37:27.760 And we would all go and sing hymns together

00:37:29.360 at the conference.

00:37:29.920 And it turns out we're not on the same team.

00:37:34.380 We're not.

00:37:35.400 And so these things matter.

00:37:38.280 And, uh, and a lot of us were late to the game and, and during this great divide, right?

00:37:44.680 So it's like the fault lines finally, it's like, we're all waiting for the big one, right?

00:37:48.020 The big earthquake where these fault lines are going to, they're going to go off and

00:37:52.040 you're going to have these tectonic plates shifting.

00:37:54.180 And, and all of a sudden somebody that we thought was, you know, a foot away from us

00:37:57.780 and we're on the same team is now on the other side of the world.

00:38:00.580 And the divide is, um, massive, right?

00:38:03.860 And that's, what's been happening.

00:38:05.580 These things have been under the surface for a very long time.

00:38:07.680 but over the last two years, because of COVID, because of the mostly peaceful riots in the

00:38:12.900 streets, you know, with Black Lives Matter, because of Roe being over, I mean, we've had

00:38:17.100 some significant things because of the 2020 election, right? Like, we've had some significant

00:38:22.940 things that have taken these fault lines, and then all of a sudden, they're not just tremors,

00:38:26.800 but earthquakes, and the divide is starting to happen. And in Michael O'Fallon's defense,

00:38:31.380 I think he was just saying, Kosti, where are you at on this? Where are you at? And it's not

00:38:36.640 because Costi, you know, is, was super duper woke. Um, but he just, I don't know. He was kind of

00:38:43.940 quiet. Right. And, and by, by 2019, right. That 2019 is when I preached my first public sermon

00:38:51.460 against critical race theory. Um, but my point is by, by, by 2020, right. The, the summer of 2020

00:38:59.660 when BLM's going, you know, going down and all these different things by that time, um, pastors

00:39:05.300 needed to pick a side. They needed to have made up their minds by that point of what the Bible

00:39:10.940 says about these things. And by 2020, if you were a pastor, you know, I led my church. I was an Acts

00:39:20.400 29 pastor. And I led my church out of Acts 29 when I was still in Southern California at the end of

00:39:27.060 2018, the end of two. So by, by 2018, 2019, just a few months later, preaching against critical

00:39:35.820 race theory. And here's the sad thing. I feel very strongly that I was late to the game and

00:39:41.540 that I was naive and that I should have been wiser. But most guys would say that I, that I was

00:39:46.360 a forerunner. I was one of the guys who's the tip of the spear. And, and sadly, by comparison,

00:39:53.760 and that's true. By comparison, I was early. By comparison to the vast majority of evangelical

00:40:00.840 pastors, people, we were just really, really late. And so once it's 2020, and then 2021,

00:40:06.540 if we still can't tell where you're at on these issues, then yeah, then it's like,

00:40:14.980 if you're not being too woke, you're at least at minimum being too quiet.

00:40:21.060 You're just being too quiet.

00:40:24.520 And I think that's how Michael O'Fallon felt about Costi.

00:40:27.480 And Costi felt like this isn't fair.

00:40:30.800 Costi, in his defense, would say, no, I have been outspoken about these things, and I don't

00:40:34.540 have to do it exactly your way.

00:40:36.260 And so this is what's under the surface.

00:40:38.480 It's this personal vendetta, this personal conflict where Michael O'Fallon was calling

00:40:47.500 out Costi and saying, I feel like Costi is a double agent. I feel like he's playing the field.

00:40:51.440 I feel like he's, you know, um, not, not choosing this day whom he will serve. And, uh, and so we

00:40:57.520 need to be a little bit wary about Costi. And, uh, and then Costi on his side is saying, this is

00:41:03.780 slander and this isn't fair. And I feel like the truth is probably somewhere in between. Um, I

00:41:09.540 think Costi could have been, and I like Costi, um, but I think he could have been a lot more

00:41:13.540 outspoken about some of these issues. I remember after COVID, churches were locked down and this

00:41:18.720 wasn't just, you know, like five days after churches get locked down, but this was a few

00:41:23.640 weeks into it. It may have been even a couple months. I can't remember exactly, but he wrote

00:41:27.680 an article, Costi Hinn, about how, you know, the need of the hour is courage. No, the need of the

00:41:35.340 hour is truth. No, the need of the hour is unity. Classic. And, you know, some people are going to

00:41:41.700 stay home, they're not going to go to church and physically gather because they're scared. And some

00:41:46.640 people are going to physically gather and we don't need to divide over this. We need to have grace

00:41:49.900 for one another. And it's an issue of, you know, Christian liberty and conscience. And I remember

00:41:55.840 reading that and being angry. I remember being really angry. I was like, this is not what we

00:42:00.500 need. No, we need someone to lead. We need someone with spying. We need someone to like,

00:42:09.480 no, this is not relative, right? Like if he had said, if you're 85 years old and extra vulnerable

00:42:16.420 to this particular virus and, and, and for a while in, in prudence and safe, but that wasn't the

00:42:22.040 article. The article wasn't making provisions for certain types of people based off of their,

00:42:27.540 maybe they have an autoimmune deficiency or, or their elderly. No, no, it was just an article

00:42:31.980 saying that, you know, somebody could be 25 and perfectly healthy and, and their conscience,

00:42:37.500 you know, they're just not going to go to church right now. And we just need to be,

00:42:41.960 we don't need to push on them. We don't need to convict them. We don't need to address that error

00:42:47.980 because that is error. Instead, we just need to be charitable and united. Yeah, that was not the

00:42:53.840 need of the hour. So I don't follow Kosti Hinn and everything that he puts out. So I can't speak

00:42:59.800 as an expert to Kosti Hinn, you know, every facet of his ministry over the last two years. But I can

00:43:04.860 say just by that article alone, that showed me something, that here we are, we're in the heat of

00:43:09.600 it. 2020 is where all of a sudden these fault lines are starting to go off. And Kosti's kind

00:43:16.820 of straddling the middle, right? The tectonic plates are spreading and he's doing the splits

00:43:21.660 instead of just picking a side, namely God's side and speaking the truth and saying, hey,

00:43:27.880 this virus is real. I'm not a corona denier, but this is not the bubonic plague. Churches

00:43:33.500 are essential and should never have been shut down. And if you're young and healthy, you need

00:43:37.280 to get your butt in church. And if that bothers you, that's not a lack of charity. That's just 0.55

00:43:43.160 the presence of truth. You need to repent. Christians were being fearful. It was sin.

00:43:50.160 It was sin. Why can't we say that? I said it then and people didn't like it and I'll say it now.

00:43:56.000 No, the church sinned over COVID.

00:43:59.520 We did.

00:44:00.300 It's not subjective.

00:44:01.800 It's not relative.

00:44:03.240 It's not just an issue of Christian liberty and conscience.

00:44:07.240 No, it's not.

00:44:09.020 Part of the reason the government was able to get away with as much tyranny as it did

00:44:13.340 is because Christians that are supposed to be the salt of the earth kept complying.

00:44:19.380 And that was not loving our neighbor because our neighbor lost his business. 0.55

00:44:24.300 Our neighbor couldn't visit his grandparents in the hospital

00:44:27.180 when they died alone with Andrew Cuomo.

00:44:30.000 Our neighbor was not being loved by us

00:44:33.660 because the club of the state in its civil tyranny

00:44:39.300 that was beating our neighbor over the head,

00:44:42.260 part of what was giving that club its momentum and force 0.99

00:44:45.320 was our cowardly Christian compliance. 0.97

00:44:50.580 And that was sin. 0.77

00:44:51.800 and we need to we need to repent and like i said earlier repentance is twofold it's changing our

00:44:57.960 action but it's not just changing our action and expecting that nobody will notice the the

00:45:02.580 contradiction before between what we're doing now and what we did before no you change in your

00:45:06.980 action and you also repent not just in deed but in word you say you verbally say i was wrong

00:45:14.540 and a ton of people still haven't repented i'm talking about christians pastors and just

00:45:21.120 Christians. They still haven't come out and just said, I was wrong. Everybody's acting like COVID

00:45:25.640 doesn't matter now, but very few are saying, yeah, but I was wiping down packages with Lysol

00:45:32.100 and not two days after when no one knew what it was, but two months, three months, four months,

00:45:37.200 I didn't go to church for five months. And now, yeah, because now the tides have turned.

00:45:43.700 Right now we have critical mass. So yeah, I'm acting like this was silly, like everyone else

00:45:47.640 is acting like it was silly, but it was silly because all of us were being silly. And I was 0.72

00:45:52.300 one of the silly people. Own it. Own it. That's the beauty of the gospel. The beauty of the gospel 0.98

00:45:59.020 is that it's free grace. It's free forgiveness. But the thing is, you have to ask. You have to

00:46:05.400 ask. Jesus doesn't forgive people who don't need forgiveness. Now, of course, objectively, there is

00:46:10.020 no one who doesn't need forgiveness. But my point is that part of receiving Christ's forgiveness

00:46:16.160 is acknowledging that you actually need his forgiveness and you acknowledge that through

00:46:21.920 repentance, faith and repentance, two sides of the same coin, faith and repentance, faith turning to

00:46:28.060 Christ and repentance turning from sin. And when we turn from sin, we turn from it in our deed.

00:46:35.520 We stop doing those things. We start doing these things and we turn from our sin in our word.

00:46:40.720 we acknowledge what we did. We acknowledge that it's wrong. We acknowledge why it's wrong.

00:46:45.840 And we begin to sing a different tune. And a lot of Christians did not do that. A lot of Christians 0.85

00:46:51.640 still have not done that. A lot of Christians still have not admitted that it was wrong for 0.96

00:46:57.320 them to go to BLM rallies. A lot of Christians, and they were there, but they said, right, 0.95

00:47:02.420 the black square is no longer on their Instagram or their Facebook page. And maybe some of those

00:47:07.800 posts have been deleted and it's all gone down the memory hole, but they, they haven't actually

00:47:11.520 come out and said, I was on this side. That was wrong. Now I'm on this side. It's not in word.

00:47:18.100 There's change in actions, hoping that nobody will notice, but not repentance in word. And so I'm not

00:47:24.740 saying that Kossi was the most woke of the woke. Um, but I am saying that, yeah, there was a minute

00:47:29.860 there where I was a little bit confused. I didn't know what side he was on. And, and, and, and I

00:47:35.620 don't know what Michael O'Fallon said, right? All of this is a legend. I wasn't a fly on the wall.

00:47:41.220 I'm not an eyewitness. And so I can't testify to, maybe Michael O'Fallon took it too far. Maybe he

00:47:46.720 was gossiping. Maybe he did slander Costi. Those are the accusations that Costi made in his podcast.

00:47:52.060 Maybe that's true, but I don't know if that's true. What I do know that is true though,

00:47:56.400 is that Costi was too weak on some of these things. And can I just say one more, one more

00:48:02.760 little ditty. It's easy to call out the prosperity gospel. Let's just be honest. Like, Kossi, bro,

00:48:12.200 it's easy to call out your uncle. Now, I understand it's harder for you in the sense that this is

00:48:16.900 your family. But in terms of just doctrine, in general, I could, my YouTube page could have

00:48:28.020 four times the followers and four times the views and never be in any threat or any danger

00:48:34.840 of being kicked off of a social media platform or receiving some kind of penalty or anything

00:48:40.700 like that if I devoted the entirety of my ministry to calling out the prosperity gospel, 0.77

00:48:46.580 to calling out heretics in terms of Joyce Myers, Joel Osteen, Benny Hinn,

00:48:53.260 um, Kenneth Hagey, you know, these kinds of guys, if, if that's what I was doing and that's all I

00:49:00.760 was doing, um, I would have a bigger following. I know I would because, because I do some of that.

00:49:07.580 And those are the videos that have the most views. I'd have a bigger following and less danger.

00:49:14.380 But when you start calling out the heresy, not just of Benny Hinn and prosperity, um,

00:49:19.420 hucksters, but you start calling out the heresy of the state.

00:49:25.820 And you start talking about vaccines, the things you're not allowed to say that now are proven

00:49:31.200 true, right? Right. Hey, can I borrow some of your conspiracies? Cause all of mine came true,

00:49:35.100 right? The difference between the conspiracy and the truth is what three to six months,

00:49:38.440 right? Like, like the vaccines actually affect, they actually transmit the MRNA actually gets

00:49:45.880 through to an infant that's nursing if the mother has been vaccinated in the breast milk. That was

00:49:51.160 said, you were kicked off of YouTube. You were kicked off of Twitter if you said those things.

00:49:58.160 And now it is a proven fact, right? And so, yeah, we need to call out prosperity teachers because

00:50:04.860 believing a false gospel is an eternal matter. So I'm not saying it's insignificant. It is an

00:50:11.520 eternal matter, it will send someone to hell. But we also need to talk about medical tyranny.

00:50:18.580 And we need to talk about civil tyranny. And we need to talk about mutilating and transing kids. 0.99

00:50:24.580 And we need to talk about Governor Gavin Newsom. And we need to talk about abortion. And we need 1.00

00:50:30.940 to talk about abolition. And we need to talk about how if abortion really is murder, and Christians 0.99

00:50:36.660 are going to be consistent, then the mother who chooses to abort her child is not a victim, 0.78

00:50:42.500 but rather should be penalized under the law as a murderer. See, those are the things that get

00:50:49.560 your videos banned. Those are the things where instead of having an audience of 100 people,

00:50:55.620 it dwindles immediately down to 10. Because everybody agrees with you about the prosperity

00:51:02.440 gospel, right? You started calling out your uncle and you got accolades, but you start calling out

00:51:10.880 critical race theory. And especially, you know, now it's starting to be a little bit cool, but

00:51:16.840 you do that back in 2018 and 2019. And you're accused of being quarrelsome. You're accused of

00:51:24.660 being arrogant. You're accused the same way you, Kosti, accused Doug Wilson. One of the things

00:51:32.840 that Kosti tweeted, for more context, is that he said, because Eric Kahn was addressing him with

00:51:38.820 this, Eric Kahn, part of Kings Hall podcast and Hard Man podcast, and we've had him on our podcast,

00:51:45.780 but Eric Kahn said, like, are you saying that Doug Wilson is a heretic? Are you saying he's

00:51:49.940 a false teacher. I just want to know for clarification. And Costi said, no, I don't

00:51:54.640 think he's a heretic. I just don't think he should be a pastor. He should be in politics,

00:51:58.740 not in the pulpit. Why? Costi's beef was not federal vision. It wasn't doctrinal. It wasn't

00:52:07.440 a claim that Doug Wilson denies or doesn't deny sola fide. No, Costi's claim was that Doug Wilson

00:52:15.660 uses bad words sometimes. And the particular bad word that Costi referenced is a bad word that

00:52:25.680 Doug Wilson used in an article when he was quoting someone else who used that word.

00:52:31.240 And for that reason, according to Costi, Doug is not a heretic, but Doug is disqualified from

00:52:38.280 ministry. And the reality is that, you know, I don't know if you guys remember Jeff Durbin,

00:52:46.320 when he preached at Fight, Laugh, Feast conference, the first conference they ever did,

00:52:49.800 right? And he used strong language likened to the language, this was his primary text that he used

00:52:56.280 to exposit, likened to the language of Ezekiel, where Ezekiel talks about Israel whoring herself 0.73

00:53:05.340 out and that harlots typically get paid for the oldest profession of prostitution. But in the case

00:53:13.700 of Israel, Ezekiel, the prophet says, guided by God, God is telling Ezekiel to say this,

00:53:19.820 you don't get paid for whoring yourself around, but you'll actually pay your lovers. You'll pay 0.66

00:53:27.440 them to whore around and to be an adulterer towards your husband, the Lord. And Jeff Durbin 1.00

00:53:35.280 took that language and that text and applied it to the woke, progressive, insane Christianity. 0.95

00:53:45.340 And it was a good sermon. It was. And he got a ton of flack. And that's the very same thing that 0.93

00:53:52.780 Costi is, so, so is Jeff Durbin disqualified from ministry? I just, I want to know. Like,

00:53:59.040 because you would have to, by that standard, right? By what standard, Costi? You would have

00:54:04.160 to say that, you know, well, I don't think Doug's a heretic, but he's not qualified to be a minister.

00:54:08.600 He should be a politician and not a pastor. Well, you'd also have to say that about Jeff Durbin.

00:54:15.080 And then my question is, is this really coming from a biblical standard? Are we actually

00:54:19.580 biblically defining what it means to be quarrelsome? Because notice the apostle Paul, he indicts a ton

00:54:24.300 of people for being quarrelsome, upsetting whole households, causing division, introducing division,

00:54:31.160 and the same group that he describes as that, the authors, the source of quarrels and division that

00:54:37.480 upsets whole households and splits the church, are the same guys, Paul says, that their speech

00:54:44.900 is smooth he doesn't say they're divisive because they use the c word no they're divisive despite

00:54:52.080 the fact that they have the smoothest speech around what makes them quarrelsome is not their

00:54:57.200 tone but their content what makes them quarrelsome is so paul would use strong language defending

00:55:05.060 the faith and he was deemed by many as a one who stirs up riots i understand that one of the

00:55:12.020 qualifications for an elder is that he should have a good reputation with outsiders. But how do we

00:55:16.620 define it, Costi? Because the same Paul who wrote that qualification, underneath the inspiration of

00:55:22.000 the Spirit, that an elder in God's church should have a good reputation with outsiders, outsiders

00:55:28.040 called Paul a one who stirs up riots, and he was often thrown in prison for disturbing the peace.

00:55:35.900 He did not have a good reputation. So whatever Paul means by having a good reputation with

00:55:40.980 outsiders as a qualification for elders, it can't mean that everybody thinks he's a nice guy.

00:55:47.080 And when you start citing, examining Moscow as a, as a evidence that somebody is quarrelsome or

00:55:56.200 somebody's rhetoric is off or that they're not qualified to be a pastor, but rather should just

00:56:01.960 be a politician, then you just, you're, you're way off. You're way off. And so, yeah, I,

00:56:10.980 Michael O'Fallon, I don't know him, right?

00:56:14.200 But what I can say is that he was right.

00:56:17.340 I don't know if every way he handled things

00:56:21.000 and every way he conducted himself

00:56:23.640 and every conversation he had behind closed doors is right.

00:56:27.420 I'm not speaking to that because I wasn't there.

00:56:29.520 But his position and his overarching general position

00:56:33.480 of this is bad and sounding the alarm

00:56:37.280 before anyone else, he was right.

00:56:40.040 Why can't we say it?

00:56:41.800 Why can't we just say that?

00:56:43.480 Why can't we honor those whom honor is due?

00:56:47.740 He was right.

00:56:49.440 And the Lord used him.

00:56:52.000 And Kosti, I'm not saying you were on the left,

00:56:53.960 but you were suspiciously quiet.

00:56:57.580 And you have courage when it comes to the prosperity gospel.

00:57:04.140 But we needed courage with some of these issues.

00:57:07.500 And not now.

00:57:09.560 once the tide is already turning. We don't need opportunists to come and run out in front of the

00:57:15.740 conservative parade and act like they engineered it. No, we needed guys when the parade wasn't

00:57:20.700 happening, when everyone was scared and when everyone was confused and when there was no

00:57:27.800 army. We needed guys then to sound the alarm and to rally the troops. And Michael O'Fallon did that.

00:57:35.620 And whatever he did after that, I don't know.

00:57:39.380 But for what I do know, that he saw things and he sounded the alarm and he began to call

00:57:46.140 people's attention to something that matters.

00:57:48.780 It matters in scripture.

00:57:50.300 It matters in this world.

00:57:51.760 It matters to our nation.

00:57:52.940 It matters to the church.

00:57:54.860 Yeah, he deserves hats off to you, Michael O'Fallon.

00:57:58.060 um and in terms of saying we don't need james lindsey um i wish that that were had been true

00:58:06.140 again i would agree with that statement if we just altered it slightly we shouldn't have needed

00:58:12.040 the evangelical church shouldn't have needed james lindsey but we did and that's an indictment not 0.84

00:58:19.780 on the church for its unholy alliances that's an indictment on the church for its foolishness 0.99

00:58:24.120 and naivety. And we don't need Doug Wilson with the culture war. Apparently we do. Apparently we 0.95

00:58:30.960 do. And instead of making statements about who we don't need and why you don't like them,

00:58:36.740 why don't you just prove that we don't need them by having a spine yourself

00:58:41.480 and take a 10th of the courage that you have with Joyce Myers and Benny Hinn and apply it

00:58:50.920 to the area where there actually is consequences, where your accounts can get shut down,

00:58:56.640 where you can get fined. Take a 10th of your courage against Benny Hinn and apply it to

00:59:04.980 courage against Gavin Newsom, against Joe Biden, against Nancy Pelosi, and call out big tech

00:59:15.460 while you're at it and call out their shadow banning, call out their unequal weights and

00:59:23.500 measures. That's the fight. The prosperity gospel is a heresy. It takes millions to hell. Yes,

00:59:31.060 that's true. We got to keep saying that, but we can't only say that. We can't only say that

00:59:37.660 when there's this other fight that wants to take your kids away. They do.

00:59:45.460 That's not extreme hyperbole.

00:59:48.340 They do.

00:59:50.280 In Canada, we've seen fathers separated from their children

00:59:54.380 because the father won't use the preferred pronouns

00:59:57.440 of a 14-year-old.

01:00:00.080 That's coming.

01:00:01.700 That's here.

01:00:02.720 That's being taught in our schools. 1.00

01:00:04.340 It's drag queen story hour. 1.00

01:00:07.360 My God.

01:00:09.400 God, we need you.

01:00:10.840 We need your help.

01:00:12.520 And one of the things we need from God

01:00:14.680 is courage in men, not just to fight against prosperity gospel preachers, but to fight

01:00:25.320 against people who actually hold real institutional power, to fight against guys who can punch back.

01:00:35.040 It's one thing to fight against these guys over here that they don't do anything. You can call

01:00:40.740 out Benny Hinn. You can call out Joel Osteen and there's no repercussions. There's not. The videos

01:00:47.580 get thousands of views and there's no practical threat. But you start calling out things like

01:00:55.460 vaccines and that it affects women's menstrual cycles because it does. And you start saying

01:01:05.880 those things before you're told you're allowed to say it by the New York Times, man, that's a fight.

01:01:16.040 There's repercussions there. That one, that takes courage, takes a lot of courage, but it's so

01:01:22.340 needed. And so, yeah, we did need James Lindsay. I wish we didn't. And when it comes to partnering

01:01:31.300 with someone, there's just, we got to understand this, guys. We got to be able to do theological

01:01:35.100 triage. We have to be able to understand this. It's just way too simplistic to say we cannot

01:01:40.660 partner with someone unless they hold to all of our doctrine. No, the question is what are we

01:01:46.980 partnering with them in and what are we partnering with them to do? You can partner, you can partner

01:01:55.100 with someone to abolish abortion who is not a Calvinist. And you can partner with someone to

01:02:03.840 abolish abortion who is not a Christian. You can't. And that doesn't mean that you've given 1.00

01:02:10.560 up the gospel. That does not necessarily, it could, but it does not necessarily prove

01:02:17.380 that you've compromised on the gospel. So yes, I'm with you. I think Kossi, his general heart was,

01:02:26.220 I don't want to win the cultural political war, but in the process, forfeit and lose the doctrinal

01:02:33.200 war. I agree. I agree. But that's not what's happening. Again, it's gaslighting. It's just 0.88

01:02:41.860 this, that's not what's happening. The big issue right now is not that you've got a bunch of

01:02:47.800 gospel-centered reformed guys compromising the gospel. That's what a few guys want to make it

01:02:54.320 sound like. I know R. Scott Clark thinks that. He wants to say everybody's following Doug Wilson

01:02:59.200 and not on his cultural rhetoric, but on his federal vision. And they're denying solely

01:03:03.260 feeding. That's just, that's, that's just not what's happening. That's what the left does.

01:03:10.160 That's what Democrats do. That's their playbook. That's their rhetoric, right? They take 1%

01:03:15.400 of what's actually going on and make it the headline, right? That's what the Pharisees did.

01:03:20.780 Jesus literally indicted the Pharisees and said, you strain out gnats, but swallow camels.

01:03:26.360 no no the the big pervasive epidemic in the in the evangelical church today is not that a ton

01:03:35.240 of people are becoming getting on board with federal vision no no what's happening is that

01:03:41.860 a ton of people are holding fast to the gospel by grace alone through faith alone in christ alone

01:03:47.620 according to the scripture alone to the glory of god alone and for the first time they're actually

01:03:52.460 applying the scripture, not just to their privatized quiet time or the home in the church,

01:03:57.340 but to the civil arena. And they're listening to guys who have been leading that charge for

01:04:03.580 decades because they actually have some wisdom and everybody else who's still a pietist and 0.66

01:04:08.960 just wants to call out the prosperity gospel and talk about, you know, sola gratia and sola fide

01:04:13.480 and doesn't ever want to talk about any cultural political issue whatsoever that they want to be

01:04:18.440 pietist and radical two kingdom guys, they're losing their audience and they're just jealous.

01:04:24.240 R. Scott Clark is jealous. That's what's going on. That's what's going on. A bunch of guys

01:04:31.920 are finally starting to wake up and say, we want all of Christ for all of life. We want to apply

01:04:37.620 the whole counsel of God to the whole of human society. We want to follow Jesus like the Puritans, 1.00

01:04:43.140 full obedience to God in everything. 0.98

01:04:46.540 Can you overdo it?

01:04:47.880 Are there ditches that you can fall into?

01:04:49.660 Sure, but that is the general direction

01:04:51.820 that we wanna go because Christ is calling us there.

01:04:54.440 And we're not going there as a substitute for the gospel.

01:04:57.540 We're not giving up the gospel

01:04:58.860 to start applying God's law.

01:05:01.440 No, we can do both, law and gospel.

01:05:05.680 And guys are in droves hopping onto that.

01:05:09.840 That's why guys listen to this podcast.

01:05:11.880 That's why guys listen to Doug Wilson.

01:05:14.200 And if you don't like it,

01:05:15.380 why don't you just start doing it?

01:05:17.760 Why don't you join us?

01:05:20.100 Why don't you take a stand?

01:05:23.140 I'm not Federal Vision.

01:05:24.600 There's things with Doug's doctrine I don't like,

01:05:26.880 but I don't think he's a heretic.

01:05:28.620 I don't think he denies sola fide.

01:05:31.960 Guys will say, well, he never retracted Federal Vision.

01:05:34.280 He just stops using the language.

01:05:35.940 But he said, I believe all the things I used to believe

01:05:38.000 and I just don't use the language.

01:05:39.240 One thing you need to understand about Federal Vision,

01:05:41.080 and I've looked into it somewhat extensively, there was a sliding scale. Not everybody who

01:05:45.640 adhered to federal vision and wore the hat was to the same degree. Doug was federal vision light.

01:05:53.320 He always was. And so when he says, I'm not using the language, but I still believe these things,

01:05:57.960 he's not denying soul of feeding. I understand John Moffat. I understand Theo Cass, and I

01:06:03.900 understand why they would go against Doug Wilson because they're notorious antinomians.

01:06:07.500 and i do want to say that publicly um theocast uh completely denies i don't know about recently

01:06:16.080 but i used to listen to them they completely deny the third use of god's law and that's why

01:06:21.800 they only understand god's law is bad news so i would disagree with doug in terms of i hold to a

01:06:27.280 law gospel distinction in the text not just in the heart not just the person that's reading it

01:06:32.940 I actually believe in a law gospel hermeneutic.

01:06:36.160 I do hold to that.

01:06:37.700 However, I disagree with John Moffitt and the theocast guys in terms of, I'm not going

01:06:42.580 to say that the law is exclusively bad news.

01:06:45.180 The law is bad news in its first use.

01:06:48.420 This is just basic reform theology.

01:06:49.840 In its first use, the law reveals to us the holiness of God by way of contrast, by way

01:06:55.540 of consequence, it reveals to us our sinfulness and therefore our need for a savior.

01:06:59.220 So the law reveals that there's a holy God, I'm a sinful man, and that I'm under the wrath

01:07:03.880 of God, that I stand condemned apart from a substitute.

01:07:07.400 And the law then, in that sense, drives me to Christ.

01:07:10.060 The bad news of the law drives me to the good news of the gospel.

01:07:13.480 Yes and amen.

01:07:14.060 But that's speaking of the law exclusively in only one of its uses, namely its first

01:07:19.400 use.

01:07:20.120 But the third use of the law is that it's a lamp unto my feet.

01:07:23.780 David didn't just acknowledge the moral rightness of God's law, but he delighted in its

01:07:29.160 practical usefulness and goodness. It's tangible goodness that it leads to life. It revives the

01:07:36.600 soul. And David says, thy law is a lamp unto my feet. Okay. So what's the alternative? If there's

01:07:43.340 a lamp unto your feet, light, light, it lights the path. Okay. What's the alternative? The absence

01:07:49.500 of God's law, darkness. Okay. Is a lamp good news in the context of pitch black darkness?

01:07:56.620 yeah the lamp is good it's good it's not gospel good news it's not saving in terms of justification

01:08:05.640 by grace alone through faith alone and christ alone but but the law of god is good david says

01:08:11.360 that it is holy and good and right so the the law of god is is distinct from gospel i i do want to

01:08:20.420 hold a distinction between law and gospel i don't think the distinction is only in in the ears of

01:08:25.340 the hearer or the heart, but I believe there actually is a law gospel hermeneutic in the

01:08:29.900 text. But all that being said, that doesn't mean that all law is only ever bad news and gospel is

01:08:37.200 the only good news. No, the gospel is the good news, capital T, the good news. But the law is

01:08:44.200 bad news insofar as its first use that drives us to Christ and the gospel, revealing the holiness

01:08:51.000 of God, our sinfulness and need of a savior, but the law then for the Christian becomes good news

01:08:56.280 in its third use because it shows us not the path to salvation, but the path from salvation into

01:09:02.520 sanctification, which ordinarily, not 100% of the time prosperity gospel, but ordinarily obedience

01:09:08.960 brings not only eternal blessing, but tangible blessings in this life as well. And that lamp

01:09:15.260 unto my feet as an alternative to pitch black darkness is good news in its third use.

01:09:22.660 That's where I'm at theologically. And I think Doug in very many ways, that's where he's at.

01:09:28.220 Now, the only thing that Doug would disagree with is the law gospel distinction in the text. He

01:09:34.740 would say, yes, law gospel distinction, 100%. But he wouldn't hold to it in the text. And there I

01:09:41.080 would disagree with him. And I do think there are some problems with that. But I don't think

01:09:44.740 hearing him, and I've read a ton of Doug Wilson, listened to a ton of his sermons, he's not denying

01:09:50.500 salvation by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone. For justification, Doug Wilson

01:09:57.460 is orthodox. He is not a false teacher. I don't like all of his doctrine. He's not a false teacher.

01:10:03.620 so Kossi in that sense was right to at least not go the federal vision false teacher heretic route

01:10:12.380 but still wrong to say yeah but you know I know you've been fighting this dragon alone because

01:10:19.400 nobody else will join you but I don't like your sword technique I think your sword technique was

01:10:24.960 a little harsh a little harsh sword fighting there you got your hands dirty what's that on

01:10:30.800 you know, like we need to fight, but, but you can't get your hands dirty. What is that on your

01:10:34.840 hands? Oh, that's the blood of dragons that I've been slain. That's why my hands are dirty. I'm

01:10:41.380 sorry. Let me go to the washroom real quick, the little boy's room, and then I'll come back and we

01:10:46.800 can have a civilized conversation. I, there's, there's problems with this. There are problems.

01:10:53.180 And like I said, at the very beginning, I gave a long and healthy disclaimer.

01:10:57.340 Costi, from what we can tell, has repented.

01:11:00.220 He repented from wrapping up G3 ministries in this

01:11:03.720 because Michael O'Fallon sits on the board.

01:11:06.100 Sounds like he's gonna handle Michael O'Fallon personally,

01:11:08.540 which is, that's what it always was,

01:11:10.080 a personal grievance and needs to be personal,

01:11:12.240 one-on-one and not public.

01:11:14.580 And with Doug,

01:11:15.360 Costi's supposed to be talking to Doug Wilson today

01:11:17.280 and talking to him about some of his critiques

01:11:20.720 with Doug Wilson,

01:11:21.300 and hopefully they can get some kind of unity,

01:11:24.480 Some kind of reconciliation with that.

01:11:26.940 I really hope so.

01:11:28.360 But the reason why I bring this whole thing up

01:11:29.980 is not just to pick on costing.

01:11:32.560 You know, if you're tuning in just now,

01:11:34.300 I said a lot of positive things about costing

01:11:36.300 for the first 25 minutes.

01:11:38.740 The reason why I'm bringing it up

01:11:39.980 is because costing represents a lot of people.

01:11:42.900 There are a bunch of people who are like,

01:11:44.240 man, Doug Wilson has something to say

01:11:46.680 and we should have been listening to him.

01:11:49.000 Michael O'Fallon has something to say.

01:11:50.320 We should have been listening to him.

01:11:51.720 These things matter.

01:11:52.440 We need to get involved.

01:11:53.160 And there are guys who are actually leading the way and guys who are actually articulating

01:11:57.060 how to apply all of Christ to all of life, a Christian ethic, right?

01:12:02.200 The first thousand years of church history, we're nailing out doctrine of God, hypostatic

01:12:05.720 union, two natures of Christ.

01:12:07.340 And the next thousand years of church history, we're nailing out justification, right?

01:12:11.700 Justification by grace alone through faith.

01:12:13.420 But we don't ever need to drift past the gospel, forget the gospel, or substitute something

01:12:18.220 else for the gospel.

01:12:19.160 All that's heresy.

01:12:20.680 But for the next thousand years of church history,

01:12:22.920 maybe we could talk about ethics.

01:12:26.000 Maybe we could talk about ethics in the silver realm,

01:12:28.800 in the public sphere.

01:12:29.940 Maybe we could talk about not just the doctrine of God

01:12:33.220 and Christ and his two natures,

01:12:34.720 and then the gospel, what Christ has done,

01:12:36.880 person of Jesus, work of Jesus.

01:12:38.780 That gets you 2,000 years of church history.

01:12:40.700 Now maybe we could talk about the kingdom of Jesus,

01:12:44.340 the kingdom of Jesus.

01:12:45.380 And there are a few guys who are talking about that.

01:12:47.440 And so, yeah, a bunch of people are coming out of the woodworks and saying, maybe they've got something to say and they want to learn from them.

01:12:54.700 And because of that, a bunch of other people are coming out and saying, well, he's got a potty mouth.

01:13:01.480 Well, federal vision.

01:13:05.760 Well, no, I think Big Eva is just falling apart.

01:13:11.860 I think the gatekeepers are losing their credibility and their control.

01:13:17.440 And I think a lot of people just are jealous.

01:13:20.820 I think that's what it is.

01:13:22.940 I really do.

01:13:24.600 And so I hope that by God's grace,

01:13:26.260 that this pattern continues.

01:13:27.860 I hope that we don't lose anything in the process.

01:13:30.360 I agree.

01:13:30.800 We don't want to win a political cultural war

01:13:32.640 at the expense of a doctrinal war.

01:13:34.780 But I do think there's a way to partner with people

01:13:37.080 that we don't agree with on everything,

01:13:38.920 but to partner with them specifically in one thing

01:13:41.380 for a cause of Christ,

01:13:43.300 even if we disagree on the person and work of Jesus

01:13:46.180 and still being faithful and holding fidelity

01:13:49.280 with our gospel witness,

01:13:51.320 I think there's a way to do that.

01:13:53.280 I think the church historically has done that

01:13:55.620 and is doing that now.

01:13:58.160 And from time to time,

01:13:59.260 we're gonna need some loving pastoral warnings

01:14:00.980 to call us back to first things, to main things.

01:14:06.260 But we need sola scriptura and tota scriptura.

01:14:10.740 Only the scripture, but all of the scripture.

01:14:14.600 And when we look at all of the scripture,

01:14:16.560 all of Christ for all of life,

01:14:17.800 the whole counsel of God for the whole of human society,

01:14:21.240 there's a lot of things that the church

01:14:24.140 has just been impotent in.

01:14:27.460 There's a lot of things that the scripture speaks to

01:14:29.360 that we just haven't applied.

01:14:31.400 We just haven't applied.

01:14:32.940 So, all right.

01:14:34.600 Let me tell you real quick.

01:14:35.780 I do have some more details

01:14:37.540 about the church planting workshop

01:14:38.980 that I'm gonna be doing.

01:14:40.800 Let's go ahead and put that up.

01:14:42.260 Church planting workshop.

01:14:43.720 Long title, but I thought it was funny.

01:14:45.980 How to plant a church since your last church went woke, right?

01:14:48.980 This is probably the most common email that I get from people saying, look, I don't know

01:14:52.640 what to do, Pastor Joel.

01:14:53.580 I can't find a faithful church within a two-hour driving radius of my house.

01:14:57.860 The church that I'm not a chronic, dissatisfied church hopper.

01:15:00.920 I was going to this church for 18 years.

01:15:03.020 The pastor went woke.

01:15:04.040 He shut down the church.

01:15:04.840 We can't meet on the Lord's Day as a church, but I see his Instagram account, and he's

01:15:10.000 at BLM rallies in the summer of love 2020.

01:15:12.700 what do I do? And so this workshop is primarily going to be for individuals

01:15:17.680 how to plant a church in their home that's biblical. How to have a small church, albeit,

01:15:25.380 but a church with a few other like-minded families, right? Maybe it's like, we can't

01:15:29.040 find a church, but I've got three or four other families that we agree about what is biblical

01:15:34.140 doctrine. And we agree, like the sons of Issachar, we know the times. We know what time it is.

01:15:40.460 We love Christ.

01:15:41.620 We love his gospel.

01:15:42.380 We want to be a faithful church.

01:15:44.020 This is going to be a workshop that tells you, how do I plant a church with just a few

01:15:47.240 families in my living room?

01:15:50.580 That would be a small church, but a thoroughly biblical church that meets every biblical

01:15:55.260 criteria there is.

01:15:56.700 So I'm going to do this in four weeks.

01:15:58.080 It's going to be an hour and a half each session, 45 minutes on the front end of a lecture,

01:16:03.420 and then 45 minutes on the back end of Q&A.

01:16:07.060 45 minutes on the front end is going to be a lecture.

01:16:09.840 45 minutes on the back end is going to be Q&A.

01:16:12.660 I think it'll be helpful for all kinds of different doctrinal distinctions that you might have.

01:16:17.620 I think it'll be helpful for Presbyterians.

01:16:19.280 But that said, I want to give this disclaimer.

01:16:22.060 I'm going to be doing this from the perspective and the church polity of the 1689.

01:16:27.060 I'm a Reformed Baptist, a particular Baptist.

01:16:29.240 That is going to be the viewpoint doctrinally that I'm going to be presenting.

01:16:33.480 how to plant a Reformed Baptist church.

01:16:36.640 A lot of the principles have far-reaching implications

01:16:39.580 and are broad enough that they would encompass

01:16:41.420 other Lutheran or Presbyterian,

01:16:44.220 but I am going to be doing this

01:16:45.520 from a Reformed Baptist angle, okay?

01:16:48.160 So this is gonna be on Monday nights.

01:16:51.180 It's gonna be four Mondays in a row

01:16:52.440 at 8 p.m. Central Time.

01:16:54.840 It's gonna start November 28th,

01:16:56.820 and then it'll be December 5th, the 12th, and the 19th.

01:17:00.000 And we are officially ready.

01:17:01.440 I've been talking about it for a couple weeks now,

01:17:03.020 but we're officially ready for people to register online. So if you're interested in taking this

01:17:08.260 course, it's going to be a closed course. Only a few people, it's not going to be public. It's

01:17:11.960 something that you're going to register for. There's only going to be a few people that are

01:17:14.920 actually signed up. It's going to be in a closed room and I'm going to be addressing your questions

01:17:18.640 and speaking to you. Okay. So it's a closed group. It's rightresponseministries.com forward slash

01:17:24.760 church plant. If you want to sign up, it's rightresponseministries.com forward slash

01:17:30.820 church plant. Again, our first session is going to be Monday, November 28th, an hour and a half

01:17:36.440 on Mondays at 8 p.m. to 9.30 p.m. I'm also going to be emailing all the people who participate in

01:17:42.140 this and sign up for the course. I'm going to be emailing you my church's bylaws and constitution,

01:17:47.560 our membership covenant, our general statement of faith. I'm going to be giving you as many

01:17:52.320 documents as possible for you to actually, well, to actually covenant, formally covenant

01:17:59.920 your local church body together.

01:18:03.120 So that's what that is.

01:18:05.260 Last thing I just wanna mention also is the conference.

01:18:08.160 Nathan, let's go ahead and pull that up.

01:18:09.800 We've got our conference coming up.

01:18:11.200 I'm really excited.

01:18:11.980 We've already got over 100 people registered,

01:18:14.000 but I said this recently, I'm gonna say it again.

01:18:16.200 The price is about to go up.

01:18:17.820 We are charging $100 for an adult, which is nothing.

01:18:22.280 That is nothing.

01:18:22.860 Most conferences of this caliber,

01:18:25.040 three-day conference would be 180 bucks

01:18:27.400 all the way up to 180 to 250, it's $100 right now if you're an adult. If you're a teenager

01:18:34.540 or older, you know, big kid from 11 years old through 17 years old coming with your parents,

01:18:41.160 it's $50. And if you're a kid 10 and under, it's zero. That price is going to go up though.

01:18:47.240 We are going to raise the price from 100 to 130 and the price is going to go up starting November

01:18:53.320 1st. So the month of October this month is your very last month to register at this price. 50

01:18:58.880 bucks for a teenager, a hundred dollars for an adult. It's James White. It's Gary DeMar. It's

01:19:05.700 Joe Boot. And it's yours truly, the whole conference focusing on theonomy and post

01:19:10.980 millennialism. Again, that's theonomy and post millennialism. The dates of the conference is

01:19:15.360 May 5th, 6th, and 7th. That's a Friday, Saturday, and Sunday of 2023, the year of our Lord,

01:19:22.800 2023 next year. I would love to see you guys there. I'm sorry that I was not able to take

01:19:28.120 any questions today. Next week, my plan is to be able to do just Q&A, but this costly thing has

01:19:34.400 been just all over Twitter and a lot of people have asked me about it. I know that I didn't

01:19:39.720 take questions in part because everything that I'm talking about was actually answering a lot

01:19:44.100 of questions I've already received. I've gotten a lot of emails and there's been a lot of people

01:19:47.520 just saying, what do we do with this? Is Doug really scary? Should we stay away from Doug Wilson?

01:19:52.800 you know, what's Costi Hinn doing? What's up with that? And what about Michael O'Fallon?

01:19:58.800 What about G3 Ministries? What's going on? And I think, you know, I'll leave it with this in

01:20:04.020 conclusion. In a nutshell, what's going on is we're seeing all those Vodibachum fault lines

01:20:09.920 that he told us about. We're seeing the tectonic plates continue to shift. And guys in the middle,

01:20:18.260 I think Costi, his frustration is I really think he was trying to do the splits. I'm not saying

01:20:23.120 that he was actually woke, but I think at least relationally and in terms of partnerships and

01:20:27.100 those kinds of things, he just, and basically we're living in a time, a cultural moment

01:20:32.240 where you're just, you're not allowed to be quiet. Everyone's going to have to pick a side.

01:20:39.420 Every pastor, every theologian, every politician, what's happening in our nation, in the evangelical

01:20:47.160 church, in the realm of politics, in the realm of news media. What's happening in a nutshell is this,

01:20:54.700 the middle is falling out. No more middle. Everything is polarized. And that's not

01:21:02.340 necessarily bad. Yeah, it's divisive. Yeah, it's intense. Yeah, it's uncomfortable. But the reason

01:21:07.900 why things are polarized is because finally in God's providence and his mercy, I might add,

01:21:13.620 We're finally seeing sin for what it really is.

01:21:16.960 We're finally seeing wickedness for what it really is.

01:21:19.500 We're actually seeing that our battle's not with flesh and blood, but principalities.

01:21:23.440 This stuff is demonic, demonic ideology, demonic policies, demonic doctrines, demonic ministries.

01:21:32.420 And as these things just become increasingly visible with every new news cycle, right?

01:21:37.960 Something comes out and people take a side.

01:21:40.100 with all this stuff going on, what's happening is that the middle ground is eroding. There is no

01:21:45.300 more middle ground. If you're in the middle ground, the earth is going to open up and swallow you

01:21:50.520 alive. You're going to have to pick a side. And I think what we're seeing with all this kind of

01:21:56.140 stuff is guys are starting to pick a side. And then there's bickering and there's fighting and

01:22:00.980 there's slander and there's accusations being hurled by this side to that side and vice versa.

01:22:05.660 So, um, but a lot of guys are just mad because they're still trying to hold the middle.

01:22:12.360 They're still trying to hold the middle and it's just not going to work.

01:22:15.000 They're getting mad at Doug Wilson because he's just been, he's been visibly and unapologetically

01:22:20.480 on one side, namely, I believe Christ's side, the biblical side and guys are, are gravitating

01:22:27.860 towards him and losing interest.

01:22:30.300 They're losing interest as a guys gravitate towards Doug.

01:22:33.540 They're losing interest in the opportunist

01:22:35.860 and the guys who are just trying to play the field.

01:22:38.180 And those guys who are losing followers to Doug Wilson

01:22:41.240 are getting mad about it.

01:22:43.940 I think that's a lot of what's going on.

01:22:46.280 And I hope it continues.

01:22:48.660 All right, thanks for tuning in.

01:22:50.040 And I look forward to seeing you guys next week.

01:22:52.080 God bless.

01:22:52.700 Thanks so much for listening.

01:22:53.980 But real quick, before you go, do us a small favor,

01:22:57.220 take a moment and leave us a five-star review

01:22:59.580 if you enjoyed the show.

01:23:00.780 This is undoubtedly the best way that you can help us get this biblically faithful content to as many people as possible.

01:23:08.580 Thanks so much.

The NXR Podcast - October 05, 2022

BONUS - Costi Hinn, Michael O’Fallon, Doug Wilson, & The Rarity Of Repentance

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