The NXR Podcast - April 30, 2023


BONUS EPISODE - A Baptist Case For “Christian Nationalism” ｜ Defining the Terms - Live w Pastor Joel Webbon

Topics
christian nationalism offenses christian nationalism
Hosted by
Joel Webbon Harrison Smith Antonio Griffith Dale Partridge Wewsley Todd Calvin Robinson
Mentioned
Sabbath Greg Bonson Stephen Wolf Jesus Christ Joe Biden Mercy Meadows Ranch Dylan Mulvaney Doug Wilson Rush Dooney Gary North Kuyperianism Baptists Aquinas Baptist Peter Sarah Drag
QUESTIONS - Were Head Coverings Unique To The Corinthian Church？ DAILY TRUTH - It’s Noble To Be A Pastor, It’s Noble To Be A Civil Magistrate

Episode Stats


Length

1 hour and 32 minutes

Words per minute

135.01

Word count

12,449

Sentence count

246

Harmful content

Misogyny

3

sentences flagged

Toxicity

17

sentences flagged

Hate speech

40

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

In this episode, I discuss Christian nationalism, global feminism, and global Homo Jihad. I define my terms as a christian nationalist and define my position as a post-millennial eschatologist. I explain why I believe that christian nationalism is better than global homosexuality, and why I would rather have a Christian government than a government that argues and debate over what age we should be allowed to have children.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:00 All right, listen, guys, I get it.
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00:00:31 perhaps even more effective than that, you can share our podcast with a friend. We hope you'll
00:00:37 take the time to do so. Thank you so much. God bless. Christian nationalism or global trannyism.
00:00:44 those are the choices christian nationalism or the global homo jihad those are the choices
00:00:54 i think what we keep forgetting in this discussion is that it is not whether but which
00:01:00 it is not whether but which today i'm going to be talking about christian nationalism
00:01:07 i'm going to be defining my terms as a baptist i'm going to be doing so particularly from a 1689
00:01:16 london baptist second second london baptist confession of faith position as someone who
00:01:23 is covenantal as someone who is reformed as someone who is presuppositional rather than a
00:01:30 tomist aka god wrote a book i'm a fan of the book natural revelation natural law arguing from reason
00:01:38 is perfectly fine i understand the position but i am a presuppositionalist stephen wolf is a tomist
00:01:46 i'm going to argue from my position not his i'm also going to be arguing from a kyperian standpoint
00:01:52 all of christ for all of life as a general equity theonomist again general equity theonomist which
00:02:01 is perfectly compatible with the 1689 the general equity of the civil codes still remains it has to
00:02:09 be properly applied with prudence but it remains even for new testament times this church age and
00:02:17 i'm also going to be arguing for christian nationalism from a baptist perspective with a
00:02:23 post-millennial eschatology that's my position but from the outset before defining my terms and
00:02:29 theologically showing you the path in which i take to get underneath this christian nationalist
00:02:34 banner that i don't even really want to advocate for myself i'd rather simply just say hey i'm of
00:02:42 the mere chrissidom sort that's much more my position doug wilson his kind of his vein a mere
00:02:48 chrissidom sort and just a general equity theonomist but christian nationalism i didn't
00:02:55 pick it out of the hat it wasn't my choice for a label but that's the debate that's going on right
00:03:01 now and i'm willing to wear the label because you can you either have christian nationalism 0.54
00:03:08 or globo transism you're going to have global homo jihad you're going to have progressive
00:03:18 godless globalism or christian nationalism it again again it's not whether but which 0.76
00:03:24 let me say this and then we'll go ahead and dive in i'll give a couple announcements up front
00:03:28 i would rather have a christian government that is arguing and debating over what the proper
00:03:36 institution of sabbath laws are than a government that is arguing and debating over what age we
00:03:44 should sexually mutilate children that's what i think guys keep forgetting in this discussion
00:03:52 they're they're arguing as though the choices between christian nationalism 0.99
00:04:00 and something else that we they forget that this something else that this classical liberalism
00:04:07 idea is something that we no longer have so they're arguing as though the two choices are
00:04:14 christian nationalism or this this just wonderful freedom that everybody has and we're all respectful
00:04:21 about those aren't the two positions we need to argue between christian nationalism on the one
00:04:28 hand and and then the other actual real viable option that we currently have which is insanity
00:04:36 christ or chaos what i'm arguing when i say christian nationalism um i know that there are
00:04:44 going to be some challenges i'm not saying it's easy and i'm not saying that there will be no
00:04:49 casualties i'm not saying that there won't be mistakes making i i'm not saying any of that
00:04:55 yeah you're going to have to figure out blasphemy laws but i would rather have a debate about how
00:05:02 to to figure out christian blasphemy laws and what those penalties are and what the lines are
00:05:10 what what what is outside the bounds and what's permissive i'd rather have the debate about
00:05:15 blasphemy laws from a christian standpoint than then from a woke crt intersectionality
00:05:24 transgender baby murdering abortion standpoint again here's the key as we go into this conversation
00:05:32 it is not whether but which that's what i think a lot of our brothers keep forgetting 0.97
00:05:39 it's not whether you have blasphemy laws but which ones you will in any society you will be
00:05:47 canceled for certain kinds of speech you will so the question is which kinds not whether or not
00:05:55 something is off limits that you're not allowed to say but which things are off limits you will
00:06:02 penalize someone you will legislate some form of morality the question is by what standard
00:06:14 by what standard so yes i would rather have christian nationalism which will have a host
00:06:21 of complexities and arguments and problems and challenges and failures i will admit that
00:06:30 there will be failures but but here's what we're trying to beat right now right there'll be failure
00:06:37 he just admitted it that there'll be failures with christian nationalism there will be
00:06:41 but it will be a vast improvement from the failure of 60 million dead babies
00:06:49 that's what we're trying to work from right now i think we're forgetting the starting place
00:06:55 we're forgetting what time it is the sons of issachar they knew the times see there were some
00:07:03 dear brothers in the lord and they are brothers they're not heretics they are brothers i think
00:07:09 they're wrong but they're brothers but they're advocating that we go back to a certain form of
00:07:16 culture and government and political thinking but that what they don't realize is that it's something
00:07:23 that never really was viable in and of itself it had the thin veneer the optic the visual
00:07:32 of viability and working because classical liberalism appeared to work for a long period
00:07:40 of time, but in the scope of history, a very brief period of time because it was riding off
00:07:46 the fumes of a prior Christodom. Some of the things that are being presented right now,
00:07:52 see, that's the thing. You've got guys in the body of Christ saying, we don't like Christian
00:07:57 nationalism we don't like post-millennialism we don't like theonomy we don't like christians
00:08:04 wielding political power in this way or that way
00:08:08 but they're not presenting another solution and if they are it's not serious it's not serious
00:08:19 it's just saying we see a problem with christian nationalism we want to warn people about the
00:08:23 problems and the potential danger we see with christian nationalism without presenting any
00:08:28 alternative and the the alternative that occasionally might get presented
00:08:32 falls squarely within this classical liberalism
00:08:36 category not recognizing that that appeared to work and for a relatively long period of time
00:08:46 decades, over a century, arguably, depending where you count. But again, it worked because
00:08:55 we had a generally moral population. We don't have that, guys. Brothers, sisters in the
00:09:05 Lord, Baptists, and Pietist Presbyterians of the Westminster Escondido sort, all of
00:09:13 you please i'm begging you i'm not trying to be mean i'm not trying to do hashtag based stuff
00:09:19 right now i am begging you as a brother in christ wake up you need to know what time it is
00:09:26 we live now and only spiraling increasingly all the more in a negative world not a neutral one
00:09:36 A negative world, a hostile world.
00:09:43 And if we refuse to fight, if we refuse to wield the little bit of influence we still have left, 0.98
00:09:53 the little bit of power and political will that Christians still have, 0.79
00:10:00 i i think that history will look back and say that that we made one of the most foolish mistakes
00:10:08 within church history that has ever been made in western civilization i don't want to do that
00:10:16 i don't want to sabotage the future of my own grandchildren the world is becoming hostile
00:10:26 certain principles that appeared again they had the veneer the optic of viability in the past not
00:10:33 that long ago just a few decades ago they only appeared to be viable because under under the
00:10:41 hood what you had in western civilization especially in america was a generally moral
00:10:49 population not each and every individual i'm speaking in terms of groups that the overarching
00:10:56 population of america just a few decades ago had a general sense of morality not perfect
00:11:03 but a general sense of morality it is not the 1950s anymore and you can't get back there
00:11:11 you you can't the 1950s only happened where did they come from where did this time period come
00:11:21 from? Let's get that again. Well, what it came from is the 1950s is just a very brief moment in
00:11:29 time as Christendom is eroding. You don't get the 1950s back by shooting for, setting your sights,
00:11:38 your aim, right? You don't set your sights on the 1950s to get the 1950s back. You have to set your
00:11:46 sights on the scripture all of christ for all of life you have to set your sights on on christian
00:11:56 government christian society christian culture the immutable unchanging and perfect standards
00:12:05 of god's law that that's you have to shoot for that and by god's grace if he would be so kind
00:12:12 achieve that the 1950s wasn't an achievement it was a brief window as two ships in the night
00:12:23 were slowly passing by each other one rank paganism and wickedness paganism and wickedness
00:12:32 the other chrysidom and as this one was going out to sea and this one was coming in to the dock
00:12:40 there was a brief moment where they both passed by and you had the appearance a brief appearance
00:12:48 that neutrality was viable but that neutrality isn't something that has its own foundation
00:12:56 it's not something that you can shoot for and achieve that neutrality is merely the appearance
00:13:06 of a neutrality that only occurs in the big scope of things very briefly and it occurs only when
00:13:14 one god is on his way out and a new god is on his way in when the true triune god is on his way out
00:13:25 and a nation is on their way of apostatizing and the new gods which is really just the rise
00:13:33 of the old gods are on their way in and when you're at that halfway point where there's still
00:13:40 some chrysidom left but there's some paganism coming in that's where you get the appearance
00:13:46 the brief optic of neutrality it's not an indefinite position it's not a viable position
00:13:55 it's not a long-standing position it doesn't work it's just a moment it's just a moment
00:14:03 because these two other things something's happening there christendom and paganism
00:14:10 christendom and paganism if we want if we want a moral country if if we want 0.73
00:14:22 a nation that that isn't trying to sexually mutilate children and and murder babies in the
00:14:30 womb and all kinds of atrocity and wokeism and critical race theory and intersectionality and
00:14:38 all these different things, you don't cast out that degree of darkness
00:14:44 with a less degree of darkness. You don't cast out the dark with dusk. You cast out the dark
00:14:57 with dawn the rising of the new sun you cast out darkness with light so sentiments of you know like
00:15:09 scott annual one of his recent tweets where he said i want to see more christians in government
00:15:15 good i like that but then he goes on to say i want to see more christians in government
00:15:21 so that we can stop wicked laws pagan laws but not so that we can legislate and execute
00:15:30 christian laws and that was it that's the idea that that's that's his point
00:15:40 that that is deeply concerning that is deeply concerning let me break that down it's simple
00:15:49 but let me break it down he's saying okay fine christians can be in government that's a good
00:15:54 thing i'll concede that point and we'd like to have while we're at it the more the merrier lots
00:16:00 of christians real christians not just nominal christians but solid christians in government
00:16:04 praise god but to what end to stop the pagan nonsense not to legislate christian righteousness
00:16:14 now again let me let me rephrase it now so you can see what's being said he's saying i want
00:16:22 christians in positions of authority and power so that they can cast out darkness
00:16:28 but i want them to do it without using light
00:16:31 i want christians to cast out darkness even at a civil level in the civil sphere
00:16:40 but you're not allowed to cast out darkness you you do whatever you want to cast out darkness
00:16:46 and you got to get it done the one thing you're not allowed to use though is light
00:16:49 that's where we are in the debate so i want to frame the debate again from the outset
00:16:57 it's not whether but which the reason why this whole christian nationalism conversation is on
00:17:04 the rise again because some we're forgetting we're getting bogged down in some of the details
00:17:08 where, you know, emotions are tight and high
00:17:12 and people are, you know, are being a little bit rude
00:17:16 and there's even been some ways
00:17:17 that I could have worded things better myself, personally.
00:17:20 I'm willing to admit that.
00:17:22 But I think we're forgetting how we got here.
00:17:25 Why are people talking about Christian nationalism?
00:17:28 Why weren't they talking about it even just five years ago?
00:17:32 What happened in the last three years
00:17:35 to spur on such a discussion?
00:17:38 what why am i hosting the theonomy and post post-millennialism conference
00:17:44 and we sold out six months in advance i'm not a big name i'm not a celebrity i've got a few
00:17:55 thousand views you know followers on youtube that's about it why are people coming out of
00:18:03 the woodworks to to entertain something like theonomy or post-millennialism or christian
00:18:11 nationalism because the west lost its mind that's why so again from the outset framing 0.96
00:18:20 this conversation remember remember why we're having this conversation they're killing babies 0.97
00:18:28 guys they're castrating boys guys
00:18:33 they're tearing down monuments
00:18:38 they set the nation on fire literally in mostly peaceful protest in the summer of love 2020
00:18:52 Joe Biden
00:18:56 is our president
00:18:58 Dylan Mulvaney
00:19:02 went to the White House
00:19:04 they're doing pride parades
00:19:10 in thongs 1.00
00:19:13 with dildos 1.00
00:19:15 there's drag queen 1.00
00:19:18 story hour
00:19:20 for kids
00:19:22 in public libraries
00:19:25 and we want to talk about how God's law
00:19:34 and theonomy is dangerous
00:19:37 what
00:19:43 I feel like R.C. Sproul
00:19:46 what's wrong with you people
00:19:48 what's wrong with you 1.00
00:19:51 they're transiting kids and we want to talk about whether or not we should use god's law
00:19:58 yeah there are problems i get it i i'm aware of church history
00:20:03 i'm aware of what the paedo baptist did to the credo baptist i am and it's serious and i'm not
00:20:10 making light of it i'm aware cutting out tongues putting putting ministers faithful ministers of
00:20:20 the gospel in a little dark hole i'm aware of the spanish crusades i am aware
00:20:28 that abuse is entirely possible in fact i i would go further and say that it's not just
00:20:38 possible it's inevitable but again here here's the framework for this whole conversation
00:20:47 guys it's not whether but which we're not arguing between the 1950s would we rather have the 1950s
00:20:56 or christian nationalism we don't have the 1950s what i'm considering theologically pastorally
00:21:07 as a father as a husband what i'm considering right now is not i'm not considering the choice
00:21:16 between the 1950s and theonomy i'm considering the choice between christian nationalism
00:21:24 and tranny globalism that's the debate and don't let anyone tell you otherwise
00:21:34 we are moving in to a negative not neutral that was a brief moment in time two ships passing at
00:21:43 sea. One going out, one coming in, one being Christendom leaving and the other paganism
00:21:49 arriving. And when those ships overlapped, it was a brief moment in time that gave the momentary
00:21:56 veneer, optic of neutrality. But that is not a longstanding viable position. It will either be
00:22:05 the christian god or the old pagan gods returning jesus cast out a demon and he said when a demon
00:22:16 is cast out it goes through waterless places arid places but if it comes back and returns and finds
00:22:26 that the house has been swept clean and put in order but it's empty it will bring with it seven
00:22:33 other demons more evil and terrible than itself and the latter state of the man will be far worse
00:22:41 than the former do you know what christ does he cast out demons he binds the strong man
00:22:49 and that's what he did in israel during his earthly ministry israel was full of demons
00:22:56 because they were living in rebellion and unbelief toward God.
00:23:02 And Jesus arrives on the scene and he's casting out demons left and right.
00:23:08 This works with individuals.
00:23:09 The principle also applies for societies, for nations.
00:23:16 Christ in America cast out demons.
00:23:21 He did.
00:23:22 Christendom, what it does, just like Jesus in his earthly ministry,
00:23:26 because it is Jesus, it's his truth, his gospel, his law, his principles.
00:23:33 What Christendom does is it comes, whether it be with an individual or society,
00:23:38 it comes and it removes the demons.
00:23:43 And I'm talking about literal demons.
00:23:46 It removes demonic ideology, demonic pagan gods,
00:23:51 demonic cultures with demonic rituals and demonic traditions and demonic practices
00:23:57 it removes that and then it begins chrysidom it places things in order it sweeps the house clean
00:24:06 so first it empties it of demonic false gods the house is now empty then it puts the house in order
00:24:12 but here's the problem if a nation then says okay thank you chrysidim for removing
00:24:21 those old tyrannical evil wicked gods that oppressed us thank you for that thank you for
00:24:29 liberating us freeing us and emptying our house our national house from the demonic gods and thank
00:24:37 you for putting everything into order and sweeping it clean but now we would like you christ we would
00:24:44 like you to go as well we don't want you here either we want an empty house jesus point is that
00:24:52 if you do that the house won't stay empty it's not whether the house is filled
00:24:58 it's which deity will it be filled with you will have chrysidom or after chrysidom comes in
00:25:12 removes the false gods and puts the house in order if you remove christ then you will have
00:25:20 the old gods come back seven times worse than before and you'll have those old gods now working
00:25:27 with a house that's been swept clean and put in order what do i mean by that in national terms
00:25:31 well what has chrysidom accomplished what did it order i'm talking about medicine
00:25:37 science government military grade weapons
00:25:45 technology media these are all the fruits of chrysidom you know that right guys you realize
00:25:57 that why is the west been so successful with technological advancements advancements in science
00:26:04 and medicine because of jesus because all truth is god's truth because you're going to make more
00:26:12 advancements and discoveries when you believe when you have the christian world view and believe
00:26:17 that the world we can expect to discover certain patterns and systems because it was designed
00:26:23 by an orderly god and not the product of random chaos in evolution in atheism it's the christian
00:26:34 worldview that swept the house clean and put it into order but here's the thing not only will you
00:26:40 get seven demons now if you remove christ instead of one but those seven demons are coming into a
00:26:47 clean house a house that's been ordered you're talking about demons coming back but not coming
00:26:54 back to a nation that previously was in the stone age or the bronze age or you're talking about
00:27:00 demons coming back seven times the demons coming back to a nation a house that now has nuclear
00:27:06 weapons that now has social media that now has artificial intelligence
00:27:14 what will the result be and how do you stave off that potential danger and threat
00:27:24 what is the standard that you can raise against it when the enemy comes in like a flood
00:27:30 what is the standard it's not classical liberalism it's not democracy or sacred democracy
00:27:38 it's christ all of christ not just the gospel that's the tip of the spear but all of christ
00:27:47 both law and gospel to all applied to all of life not just our private pretty little hearts
00:27:55 but all of society the arts and medicine and government culture the whole nine yards all of
00:28:01 Jesus for all of life. That's the standard that the Lord raises against the enemy when he comes
00:28:08 in like a flood. It's the only hope we have. I'll start defining our terms from a Baptist perspective
00:28:15 of Christian nationalism as a post-millennial, as someone who holds to general equity theonomy
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00:30:50 All right. So let me go ahead and start defining some terms. I wrote this a few days ago on Twitter
00:30:57 in response to another tweet from Scott Annual from G3 Ministries. And I'm going to go ahead
00:31:04 and have Nathan, my assistant, pull it up on the screen so that those of you who are watching on
00:31:08 youtube can follow along if you're listening to the podcast uh that's totally fine i'm going to
00:31:13 read it so you'll be you'll be all right i said no more talking past each other from now on i am
00:31:19 fiercely committed to clarity and providing definitions for my position unfortunately and
00:31:24 i will concede right now many christian nationalists are um not being clear now i i don't
00:31:31 think the opponents are being that clear either um but they're not being clear they're just we
00:31:35 we want we just want a christian nation what's so bad about that well of course you know every
00:31:39 christian you would think uh wants a christian nation and so that is true that is a true statement
00:31:45 um but what does that mean so the christian nationalists are going to have to do a better job
00:31:51 of explaining what what we mean by that i know what i mean by that and that's what i'm going
00:31:57 to share with you guys right now because it's not helpful to just have the little
00:32:01 cliche you know quips that that everyone can agree with you have to be clear about what you
00:32:13 mean so no more talking past each other i want to be fiercely committed to clarity and providing
00:32:19 definitions for my position parentheses unfortunately it means that my post will
00:32:24 have to be longer close parentheses scripture clearly prescribes the size of civil government
00:32:30 by clearly defining the role of civil government, because that's one of the objections. This guy
00:32:36 saying, well, we don't like Christian nationalism because we want a small government. Well, within
00:32:42 the Christian nationalist perspective, the argument really isn't for small or big government. The
00:32:49 argument is for government that is exactly the size it's supposed to be as defined by scripture.
00:32:56 Now, how do you get that from scripture? How do you get the size of government? You get the size
00:33:00 of government by limiting the roles of government so this is what you do biblically you say what
00:33:08 does scripture say government exists for what is god's instituted purpose he's designed for
00:33:16 government and then you determine okay to execute not what what we want government to do but and not
00:33:24 what government wants government to do but what god wants government to do then how how big of a
00:33:31 government do we need and you make sure that the government is no smaller than it needs to be in
00:33:37 order to obey god's prescription for government you don't want it any bigger than it needs to be
00:33:43 but you also don't want it any smaller you want government not to be larger and not to be smaller
00:33:49 you want government to be the exact size it needs to be in order to obey god that's the concept very
00:33:56 simple so first you have to look to what does god call command government to do and it's very clear
00:34:05 romans chapter 13 government civil government the family that sphere in society is a government
00:34:12 the church is a government right we have familial government we have ecclesiastical government but
00:34:17 what I'm talking about specifically right now is civil government, the civil government sphere.
00:34:22 It has been instituted by God. It's not man's design or man's idea. It was instituted by God
00:34:28 himself. It's in scripture and its purpose, the commandment that God has given it, it exists for
00:34:34 this reason is to punish evil and praise the good, punish evil and praise the good. So that being
00:34:43 said i went on in my tweet i wrote this scripture clearly prescribes the size of civil government
00:34:50 by clearly defining the role of civil government punish actual evil not policing potential evil
00:34:58 right there you're going to have a smaller government than what we currently have punish
00:35:05 actual evil not policing potential evil here's some examples getting very specific defining my
00:35:12 terms. What that would look like would be no state-run schools, no public school. So what
00:35:22 does government exist for? To punish evil, not to educate children. Education belongs. We have
00:35:29 three spheres, the home, the church, and the state. Education has been given by God to which sphere?
00:35:36 the home familial fathers the family ephesians 6 fathers not state fathers but familial fathers
00:35:48 do not exasperate your children your sons but rather train them up in the instruction
00:35:56 and the paideia, the curriculum, the teaching, the fear of the Lord, the fear and admonition of the
00:36:06 Lord. That belongs to fathers. Fathers are called to educate their children. They will do this in
00:36:15 tandem, in partnership with the viceroy of the home, which is the mother. This is called
00:36:22 homeschooling. I believe it is also biblically permissible to have Christian schools outside of 0.81
00:36:28 the home, but where fathers and mothers are deeply involved. But the institution that has no
00:36:36 authority and no business whatsoever in educating children is the state. They punish evil. They do
00:36:46 not educate children so the size of civil government clearly defined by the role of civil
00:36:52 government punishing actual evil not policing potential evil this means no state or public
00:36:59 schools this also means no irs especially 87 000 extra irs agents that are armed with guns
00:37:13 no you don't need that so are taxes legitimate do we render unto caesar what is caesar's yes
00:37:22 that's biblical however when government gets smaller because it's not doing school
00:37:30 and as we'll see here in a moment it's not doing welfare and it's not doing a host of other things
00:37:37 that it's not called by god to do well then things cost less and you can be taxed less and if you're
00:37:45 taxed less guess what also happens taxes can be become much more simpler you don't have to have
00:37:53 thousands of laws in tax codes and you don't have to have a staff of thousands and thousands of
00:38:03 people namely the irs to ensure that the government's getting every single penny
00:38:08 that it thinks it's owed so no state public schools no irs what i would advocate for again
00:38:17 i'm sharing my position this doesn't represent everyone under the banner of christian nationalism
00:38:22 but what i would argue for would be a flat sales tax no income tax because it's not proportional
00:38:30 I don't believe that someone who works harder and, by God's grace, has been endowed with superior gifts, at least in the monetary sense, for producing wealth, that that person should be further penalized.
00:38:50 So the idea of different tax brackets for the wealthy and for the poor, I don't believe is a biblical notion.
00:38:57 a straight sales tax across the board now some people will purchase more than others
00:39:03 but you could be in theory and in practice it will work out rather easily you could be
00:39:10 significantly wealthier than your peers and yet live a modest life with your spending
00:39:17 and pay no more taxes now the sales tax would have to be significantly higher than it currently is
00:39:23 but it wouldn't be 50% or something like that. It probably would sit around
00:39:28 25 to 35% sales tax. And that would be enough to fund the government to do everything that God says
00:39:37 it's supposed to do. It would not be enough to fund the government to do everything it's doing
00:39:42 now because it's doing a lot of things that it's not supposed to be doing, but it would be enough
00:39:46 to fund the government to be strong to wield the sword competently and and strongly with strength
00:39:55 to both punish evil domestically criminals within our borders and to defend our borders
00:40:03 and to fend off threats of evil from outside foreign threats a military and police it would
00:40:14 be enough for that so a straight sales tax no property taxes either half of your property taxes
00:40:22 for the record go towards public schools now you would have to pay for a private school or you
00:40:29 would have to work with a single income home which i do believe is god's design for families and your
00:40:35 wife homeschooling your children but guess what you'd have a lot more money because you wouldn't
00:40:41 be paying near as much in taxes so the next no state schools no irs no state welfare provision
00:40:52 so we've talked about education which sphere does it belong to the state no the family now talking
00:40:58 about physical provision physical provision belongs again to the sphere of the church no
00:41:05 the family the family and the church is a backstop functions as a free safety
00:41:13 for individual impoverished christians when their families fail if someone doesn't work
00:41:22 if a man will not work scripture says let him not eat so the church doesn't give money
00:41:32 to people who are lazy when it comes to physical provision i hear people say this all the time it's
00:41:37 a massive biblical misconception they say well the state wouldn't have to be doing welfare if 1.00
00:41:43 the church would step up its game that is one of the most ignorant and stupid statements you could 0.99
00:41:50 make and if you made that statement you need to apologize and repent because it's wrong 0.99
00:41:55 now the reason that the church cannot cannot um right now financially uh handle carry the burden
00:42:06 in the united states of america there's no way why well one because the church has been depleted
00:42:13 many have apostatized number two because we have an epidemic of of people who need provision in
00:42:25 our nation far more than we should why because when the state does something it's not supposed
00:42:31 to do it does it poorly and the state taking care of welfare and taking that not from the church but
00:42:38 from families fathers has incentivized poverty and so now we have an epidemic of poverty and
00:42:47 the only way that it can be taken care of is by individual familial fathers. Fathers caring for
00:42:56 their families, caring for their wives, caring for their children, working hard and making
00:43:02 provision. No state welfare. Okay, so then what does the state do? It punishes evil. Now, I said
00:43:10 punishing actual evil not policing potential evil what do i mean by that i wrote this
00:43:18 that means swift and just retribution public hanging or a firing squad yes i'm getting very
00:43:28 specific with my terms i'm going to define my terms public hanging or firing squad for capital
00:43:35 offense for capital offense not for minor petty crimes but if somebody murders then yes they need
00:43:44 to lose their life that's the biblical principle life for a life that's in the noaic covenant
00:43:49 that's in the mosaic law that continues throughout in all places in all times for all people a life
00:43:58 for life. That is justice. So for capital crimes, you'd receive capital punishment and that capital
00:44:06 punishment shouldn't be sitting on death row for 20 years. It should be a fair trial that will take
00:44:14 some time, but it should be weeks, perhaps months, never years, never years. A fair trial, weeks,
00:44:24 perhaps months where you have fair opportunity for fair representation as the defendant
00:44:31 all these things take place but if you are found guilty in a court of law for a capital crime
00:44:39 such as murder you receive the death penalty and it should be public what the bible teaches
00:44:46 in terms of justice is this. It says when justice is delayed, that wickedness becomes rampant.
00:44:55 Wickedness increases when justice is delayed. So when you think of preventing crime, right? Because
00:45:02 I said the government exists to punish evil, not for welfare, physical provision, that's the family.
00:45:09 not for education state schools public schools that's the family the government exists to punish
00:45:18 evil but then i define my terms even more specifically by saying um and that means
00:45:23 punishing actual evil so first you have to have a standard god's law for defining what's evil and
00:45:29 what's righteous and it means punishing actual evil but then i specified even more this gets an
00:45:34 even smaller government, not policing potential evil. A lot of what we have outside of welfare,
00:45:43 that's a ton. IRS agents and crazy tax laws, that's a ton. When you think of government employees,
00:45:49 think public school, welfare agencies, and IRS. You get rid of those, you have already
00:45:58 substantially whittled down the state you have so we are talking about a smaller government than
00:46:05 what we currently have for sure but not a libertarian ideal not not not small government
00:46:13 just for the sake of small government i want a government that is much smaller than what we
00:46:17 currently have but is absolutely big enough to do what god commands government to do now so we've
00:46:24 already whittled it down we're going to whittle it down even further now punishing actual evil
00:46:29 not policing potential evil in biblical law case law god's moral law and the civil law given to
00:46:38 israel the principle that we see is this you don't see you don't see officers going around policing
00:46:47 investigating snooping looking for crime instead what you have is that when crime is known when
00:46:57 it's actually been committed they're brought before the judges a fair trial is had evidence
00:47:02 has to be presented eyewitnesses and more than one two to three independent lines of eye and ear
00:47:10 witness testimony when all those things have been done if a person is found guilty
00:47:15 then they're swiftly punished the punishment is proportional for the crime it's impartial
00:47:23 doesn't matter what ethnicity they are and it's swift it's swift and then how do you prevent
00:47:32 well you police over here with all these people to prevent future no that's the beauty you kill
00:47:38 two birds with one stone swift proportional justice prevents future crimes it does the
00:47:47 greatest preventing measure the greatest that the most effective method for preventing crime
00:47:55 is not having a bunch of of police force going around policing potential crime
00:48:02 Now, the best method, biblically speaking, for preventing, for dissuading the population
00:48:12 from committing outward manifestations of evil is for them to see what happens.
00:48:19 Swift, proportional, unbiased, impartial justice when evil is perpetrated.
00:48:26 it there's a reason why there were public hangings in the past and it wasn't it wasn't to be
00:48:35 um it wasn't to be cruel and it wasn't to be to embrace uh gore right and and for the record
00:48:44 in a theonomic christian nationalist society and you don't have to be a theonomist to be a
00:48:48 christian nationalist but i am i'm arguing my position in that kind of society um nobody's
00:48:55 forced to go when so when i say that there's public hangings or a public firing squad for
00:49:00 capital crimes i'm not saying um that the public is forced to attend it but i'm saying that these
00:49:08 things happen in the public square ideally in front of a courthouse so wherever the crime was
00:49:15 committed in that county the county seat that courthouse there would be a gallow and that
00:49:19 person would be publicly punished if you're a parent with young children that you don't want
00:49:24 to see that perfectly understandable you don't have to attend but there is public justice being
00:49:31 carried out swiftly swiftly and that's one of the primary means of preventing future crimes
00:49:39 continuing now this deters crime and it decreases the need for policing
00:49:45 and it would also abolish the majority of prisons why because you have capital punishment not death
00:49:55 row not feeding a murderer for 20 years on our tax dollars you have capital punishment for capital
00:50:02 crimes then for lesser crimes for lesser crimes if it's theft which would be a common crime you
00:50:09 have double retribution you pay them back the person who steals pays back
00:50:17 and if it's not theft let's say it's abuse some kind of assault something like that it's not
00:50:26 murder but it's also not theft then you would have and i know this is controversial but think
00:50:31 with me for a moment just think it's not whether but which you're going to have something some
00:50:36 kind of penalty what you would have is not a public hanging if it's not a capital offense but
00:50:42 you would have and not retribution if it's not stealing what you would have is certain fines
00:50:46 there would be fines for some crimes and in some cases not many but in some cases you would have
00:50:52 a public beating not a flogging but a public beating and again it would be public
00:50:59 not whether but which what's the alternative guys
00:51:05 oh it's so much more humane and it grants so much more dignity to take a full-grown adult adult man
00:51:15 and treat him like a pet put him in a cage give him a little water bowl and a food tray
00:51:23 three times a day a little potty area a little bed i have a pet tortoise for my my three girls
00:51:33 they love it um my tortoise's cage looks like your average prison cell that's how you treat
00:51:43 a pet not a human being even a criminal who's been made in the image of god no you know what's
00:51:50 demeaning degrading dehumanizing and robbing of dignity prison prison is and again by what standard
00:52:02 whose definition do we accept is it god's or is it progressive evolved man and what he thinks
00:52:10 is dehumanizing and what he thinks grants dignity well of course he thinks in our culture today
00:52:17 that's apostatizing from christ and from god of course he thinks that that uh free shelter
00:52:23 and free food is the way to go in fact that that think about this for a second that that is what
00:52:32 our progressive democrats are arguing for all of us not just criminals you'll own nothing and be
00:52:39 happy that everyone will get their little cell and you'll have universal income and universal housing
00:52:46 from cradle to grave universal education everything's paid for by the state everything's
00:52:52 covered what they want to do with criminals what they are doing with criminals they want to do with
00:52:59 the entire population because they think that that's good and that's the goal that people would
00:53:06 just be taken care of like pets like people can't actually produce men can't actually take care of
00:53:13 their family it's that it's the soft bigotry of low expectations as thomas soul and others have
00:53:21 so yeah to take a man out to the courthouse publicly and to beat him with rods because of
00:53:30 a crime that he's committed that does not deserve capital punishment but is serious and then to say
00:53:36 don't do it again and now you're free to enter back into society to be productive and to live
00:53:46 a meaningful life that is far more far more dignifying than what we currently do again this
00:53:54 whole conversation where is it coming from returning to god's law general equity theonomy
00:54:00 post-millennialism that thing optimistic eschatology that maybe things could improve
00:54:05 they could get better christian nationalism let's be a christian nation where's the conversation
00:54:09 coming from it's not whether but which this isn't this isn't an ivory tower conversation but some
00:54:16 guys are having it in in that way they're having it from an ivory tower no we're having this
00:54:21 conversation i'm having this conversation from from the position of of the current insanity that
00:54:27 we're that we're living in presently saying surely surely uh when when they're castrating
00:54:35 little boys maybe we could have a another conversation about greg bonson and and theotomy
00:54:42 are we ready for it now Westminster Escondido wasn't ready for it then
00:54:48 I mean listen to that that speech it's like a two-minute clip from Greg Bonson it's powerful
00:54:54 where he says we're locking our windows at night because the way that's the crime is skyrocketing
00:55:00 and you guys want want to anathematize theonomy at Westminster Escondido they silenced Greg Bonson
00:55:10 but you you've got these heresies creeping into the church and you want to talk about theonomy
00:55:17 we've got this going on in our society in our culture and you want to talk about theonomy
00:55:23 it's a powerful clip from greg bonson my question just a little old me joel webin my my my question
00:55:32 is just are we ready to have the conversation now westminster escondida was very clear that
00:55:38 they were not ready to have the conversation with Bonson 20, 30 years ago.
00:55:44 I'm wondering now, in 2023, after churches were locked down by the government,
00:55:52 after poison was mandated to be jabbed, injected into people's arms,
00:55:59 after drag queen story hour for kids,
00:56:03 after pornography in public libraries for kids,
00:56:06 after six million dead in the womb i'm just wondering now could we talk about some of the
00:56:16 stuff that that these guys tried to talk about earlier are we ready to be honest now have we
00:56:24 taken off the rose glasses now can we consider whether again i'm being honest here will there
00:56:30 be problems will there be things that we'll have to figure out yeah but what's the alternative
00:56:36 what is the alternative and you cannot present as a legitimate alternative a placeholder
00:56:45 and that's all classical liberalism ever was is a placeholder as two ships are passing each other
00:56:55 in the night. As Christendom is going out, as paganism is coming in, it gave the appearance
00:57:03 and the temporary appearance of neutrality. But neutrality is a myth. All I'm asking is,
00:57:13 are we ready to have that conversation now? Can we admit as Christians, as brothers in Christ,
00:57:18 that neutrality is a myth and that and that the state is going to wield power because it's
00:57:25 commanded by god to do so it's been given a sword by god and so is it going to wield that sword
00:57:33 according to god's standards or according to pagan standards so going on government should
00:57:44 only be as big as it needs to be for the size of the domestic population as well as the size
00:57:50 of foreign military threats. So how big should a government be? Big enough, given the size of the
00:57:58 population of that nation, big enough to punish domestic evil within the population, to guard
00:58:05 its borders, police its borders, and to have a military that is prepared for foreign threats.
00:58:13 there's your government because that's all government exists for that's all that i'm
00:58:19 arguing now that being said in terms of domestically punishing citizens for crimes
00:58:26 we do have to have a conversation about how what standard do we use for determining crimes
00:58:32 if government exists to punish evil we have to be able to define what is evil so let me continue
00:58:40 all of this is still accomplished i believe with a clear separation of church and state
00:58:46 that's another thing within my understanding my little
00:58:51 neck of the woods of christian nationalism what i'm arguing for my position is a clear separation
00:58:59 of of church and state and to be fair i don't know anyone in the christian nationalist side
00:59:05 of the argument that says
00:59:07 otherwise. I don't know one person.
00:59:10 Stephen Wolfe,
00:59:11 he's a Thomist.
00:59:13 He's not presuppositional.
00:59:15 Fantillion, he would hold to Aquinas.
00:59:18 He's Presbyterian. I'm
00:59:19 Baptist. He's not the biggest
00:59:21 fan of theonomy.
00:59:23 He's an optimistic all-mill. I'm post-mill.
00:59:25 Plenty of differences between us.
00:59:27 Stephen Wolfe is very clearly his
00:59:29 position, separation of church and state.
00:59:31 Two independent, autonomous,
00:59:33 sovereign spheres.
00:59:35 so we're not talking about an ecclesiocracy now this is where we need to this is another thing
00:59:41 where i think we're talking past each other we're missing this okay no one within the christian
00:59:48 nationalist side of the debate is arguing for an ecclesiocracy that would be a church-run state
00:59:54 or as our g3 brothers like to to say a protestant pope they've asked us about that several times
01:00:02 not once have we ever advocated for that and they know that so we're not talking about a a state
01:00:12 a church-run state with an ecclesiastical authoritative figure who sits in authority
01:00:19 over the state no ecclesiocracy okay so government should only be as big as it needs to be
01:00:27 all this can be accomplished with a clear separation of church and state but here's the
01:00:33 kicker absolutely no separation of christ and state every government get this every government
01:00:42 is theocratic every government is a theocracy it's not whether but which every nation has a god
01:00:51 so there is a massive difference between a theocracy and an ecclesiocracy an ecclesiocracy
01:00:59 is where there is no separation between the sphere of the church and the state and you have a state
01:01:04 that is run by an ecclesiastical figure by the church that's an ecclesiocracy that the christian
01:01:12 nationalist is not advocating for but stands firmly against however separation of church and
01:01:19 state good separation of christ and state bad and while we're at it that means a theocracy
01:01:28 we don't want christ to be separated from the state which means we want a theocracy
01:01:34 not an ecclesiocracy church-run state but a theocracy christ-run state a christian state okay
01:01:45 now what would that christian state look like what would be some of its theological distinctives
01:01:55 well for one it would be creedal at the federal level not confessional something like the apostles
01:02:04 creed nicene creed athanasius creed not confessional so it is not we the united states
01:02:11 of america are presbyterian holding to the westminster no we the united states are baptist
01:02:17 or lutheran or anglican no it would be a pan protestant pan protestant nation because i'm
01:02:26 arguing again for christian nationalism and catholicism i believe denies the gospel
01:02:32 so when i say christian nationalism i mean a pan protestant movement a pan protestant movement
01:02:41 but not a particular denomination within at a confessional level within protestantism
01:02:48 but rather a creedal commitment a creedal allegiance at the federal level so it would
01:02:55 be we the united states are christian and what do we all agree with we believe in god the father
01:03:01 Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth. We believe in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord, who was
01:03:08 conceived by the Virgin Mary, born of the Virgin Mary, conceived by the Holy Spirit. He suffered
01:03:15 under Pontius Pilate. He was crucified and died, was buried. He rose again on the third day from
01:03:22 the dead. He ascended to the right hand of God the Father Almighty. From there He will return to judge
01:03:28 the living and the dead we believe in the invisible and universal church with the holy
01:03:34 spirit and the invisible and universal church lowercase c catholic church the forgiveness of
01:03:40 sins the communion of the saints the the life the resurrection of the body and the life everlasting
01:03:46 amen got a little bit out of order there but that's the basic gist my point is that creedal
01:03:52 commitment is something that every protestant christian can affirm every protestant christian
01:03:59 can affirm so what do we mean by no separation of christ and state it means that the state is
01:04:04 christian what do we mean the state is christian we mean there's a public allegiance all right one
01:04:11 nation indivisible under god under god we're saying that but we're saying that with a little
01:04:18 bit more specificity which god the triune god the christian god jesus who is jesus well we're not
01:04:28 going to get too specific to where we're now splitting denominations but within this pan
01:04:34 protestant project we're going to say well what will tell you about jesus for certain at the
01:04:39 federal level is this that he suffered under pontius pilate he was conceived by the holy
01:04:44 spirit born of the virgin mary he was crucified and he died and he bodily rose from the grave and
01:04:51 he ascended to the right hand of god the father almighty that's what we're advocating for that's
01:04:56 that's what we mean okay so now the church has been given the keys word sacrament church discipline
01:05:08 the state has been given the sword executing earthly justice the important question is whether
01:05:14 or not the moral law that would be all ten commandments is merely um is merely for christian
01:05:24 people or for all people and that's the big question and and you know we're figuring this
01:05:34 out having to argue about this as brothers in christ but the christian nationalist position
01:05:39 is that the state should legislate all 10 commandments not just the second table of the
01:05:48 law as it's been called commandments 5 through 10 dealing with our love for neighbor but also
01:05:54 the first table of the law commandment 1 through 4 dealing with our love for god you shall have
01:06:00 no other gods before me what would be an example right now something that would not be permitted
01:06:06 in a christian nation if we returned if this christian nationalism project worked out well
01:06:13 one thing that would not be allowed is right now i believe it's minneapolis or minnesota
01:06:19 or minneapolis minnesota the same thing i i can't remember the city but but an article just came out
01:06:27 that they just had a ruling that they're going to have um an islamic call to prayer
01:06:32 five times a day that they're actually going to have a siren um city-wide city-wide um that is
01:06:43 uh islam and it's public um so you can't have you know christian nationalism
01:06:52 but it's minneapolis but you can have muslim nationalism so when i say a christian nation
01:07:01 a public allegiance creedal the apostles creed at the federal level what i'm saying is we're
01:07:08 holding all 10 of the commandments and what does that mean it doesn't mean remember everything i've
01:07:13 said thus far about not policing it doesn't mean that you're going into people's private homes
01:07:18 to see if they're worshiping a false god it means in the public square there are no high places
01:07:25 there are no high places there are no altars built to the false gods so so what's something
01:07:34 that an example that would not be permitted a call to muslim prayer citywide yes that would be
01:07:42 illegal and if somebody did it anyways that would be a crime and it would be punishable
01:07:48 and we would have to work through and understanding what that punishment is
01:07:53 taking the general equity of the civil law applying it looking at penalties but understanding this is
01:08:00 case law many of those penalties for the record that's another thing we need to understand well
01:08:04 will the penalty for idolatry is death i understand one of the things that we also
01:08:09 need to understand this conversation about god's law with with nations adhering to it and civilly
01:08:16 at the civil level legislating it in this gospel age is we need to understand that there is
01:08:23 something to be said for maximum penalties so in the state of texas you know you'll see a sign i
01:08:30 forget the exact number but you know um if you litter right it's a penalty up to two years in
01:08:37 prison and a $5,000 fine. Now, I don't know hardly anyone in Texas that's thrown a wad of paper out
01:08:46 their car window and is currently serving hard time in prison, is in jail for two years. It's
01:08:53 a maximum penalty. It's legal under the law. It could happen, but it rarely does. But it's there
01:09:01 for what for big littering and more likely for repeat offenders so it's one thing to say 1.00
01:09:11 um well homosexuality biblically should be punished by death yes
01:09:15 that is a maximum penalty that's a maximum penalty we don't have one historic account 0.99
01:09:23 from all the historic writings biblical and extra biblical of israel ever stoning a son
01:09:30 for dishonoring his father but that was one of the laws that was one of the laws
01:09:36 this is a maximum offense and that's not because israel didn't obey in that instance they had
01:09:42 plenty of disobedience but that's not the reason why this is a maximum penalty one with real
01:09:47 penalties evil is deterred it deters evil it dissuades people from doing that which is sinful
01:09:54 so that's one and then number two there are repeat offenders and three what we're primarily
01:10:02 talking about is the distinction between sin and crimes right so even with the second table of the
01:10:07 law well the 10th commandment is thou shall not covet we're not going to have the coveting police
01:10:11 somebody's not going to be in jail for coveting
01:10:14 it's a sin but it's not a crime now there are multiple factors at play but the chief one
01:10:22 the big rule of thumb to consider when determining a sin and a crime the difference between the two
01:10:29 is private versus public private versus public so public idolatry having a buddhist temple
01:10:39 erected that would be a crime in a christian nation a city-wide call to islamic prayer 0.77
01:10:46 would be a crime in a christian nation now talking about homosexuality going back to that 0.91
01:10:52 gay pride parade is a crime. Drag queen story hour is a crime. Pornography would be a crime. 0.97
01:11:03 Pornography in schools for children, of course, would be a crime. Somebody privately doing
01:11:10 something like homosexuality, sodomy, that would certainly be a sin, but not necessarily a crime
01:11:18 that's punishable now if that came out to light then there would be a punishment for that offense
01:11:25 but it would likely not be treated as a capital offense and it would not receive capital punishment
01:11:31 that would be your maximum penalty right just like littering maximum two years in prison five
01:11:38 thousand dollar fine that would be maximum what would likely happen is that would be one of those
01:11:42 instances where an individual would be beaten and it would be shameful like what i was talking
01:11:48 about earlier beaten by rods he would be told not to do this again if somebody was brazen
01:11:55 and a repeat offender and trying to to to do it in public just to stick it to christians
01:12:04 then yes eventually eventually with a repeat offender who's also becoming more and more
01:12:11 publicly brazen with his sin, then yes, even the sin of homosexuality would eventually get the 0.92
01:12:17 death penalty. Okay, so now all the things that I'm saying right now, just for the record, I'm not 0.72
01:12:23 saying that I'm 100% right about all these things. I'm doing my best to study the Word of God first
01:12:28 and foremost. I'm doing my best to study political theology, political theory from old dead guys and
01:12:36 not the loser guys that are alive today.
01:12:41 And I'm studying guys like Rush Dooney,
01:12:44 Gary North,
01:12:45 the reconstructionist and theonomist.
01:12:47 And I agree with much of their position.
01:12:49 I would have some differences here and there.
01:12:52 I don't know exactly how all this works out.
01:12:54 But again,
01:12:55 for those who are just tuning in,
01:12:56 the way I started the episode,
01:12:57 go back and check it out.
01:12:58 Here's the key.
01:13:00 Here's the big idea.
01:13:02 It's not whether but which.
01:13:04 It's not whether but which.
01:13:06 we can either have the fierce debates 0.77
01:13:09 about drag queens story out 0.93
01:13:10 and castrating little boys,
01:13:13 chemically castrating, 0.99
01:13:17 sexual mutilation,
01:13:19 60 million babies aborted in their mother's womb, 0.84
01:13:23 pornography in schools.
01:13:26 We're either going to have a conversation about that
01:13:28 or we can have a conversation
01:13:30 and try to figure out Sabbath laws
01:13:32 and blasphemy laws in a Christian nation.
01:13:34 it's either christian nationalism or tranny nationalism and even that's not true it won't 0.77
01:13:42 be nationalism at all it'll be tranny globalism it'll be it's the global homo jihad or it's 0.80
01:13:50 christian nationalism because the only way you cast out the darkness is not with less darkness 0.83
01:13:56 but with light and Jesus is the only light of the world his law is good it's the lamp the law of God
01:14:05 is a light it doesn't save us no man will be saved by works as done unto the law the gospel for I'm
01:14:12 not ashamed of the gospel for it is the power of God for salvation to all who believe first for the
01:14:19 Jew then for the Greek the gospel of free grace by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone
01:14:25 is the only means of salvation,
01:14:28 eternal salvation for an individual man.
01:14:31 Yes and amen a thousand times.
01:14:34 But even the law of God is spoken of as light.
01:14:38 Where?
01:14:39 In scripture.
01:14:41 Your law is a light unto my path,
01:14:45 a lamp unto my feet.
01:14:48 Lawless nations become dark.
01:14:52 The law gives light.
01:14:55 The law, first, it reveals our need for a Savior.
01:14:59 It shows us the holiness of God, the sinfulness of man,
01:15:02 the infinite chasm in between God and man,
01:15:05 and our need for the only mediator.
01:15:07 There is one God and one mediator, the God-man Christ Jesus.
01:15:11 So the law drives us to Christ in its first use.
01:15:14 In its third use, it's a compass that guides us and shows us where to go.
01:15:18 The law also has a, it's a tutor, the pedagogical use of the law,
01:15:24 that it teaches, and it doesn't just teach individual Christians, but it teaches whole 0.69
01:15:28 societies made up even of non-Christians. The law disciples a culture in terms of morality.
01:15:38 What's right? What's wrong? And that's what I want guys to get. And that's probably where I'll
01:15:44 land the plane here at the end. I want guys to understand that it's both and. So as somebody
01:15:50 who is post-millennial okay as someone who's post-millennial um i believe that uh at the end
01:15:58 of this gospel age this church age there will be more people saved than not that heaven will have
01:16:04 more people than hell read bb warfield i understand there was the way there was the gate difficult the
01:16:11 path few under ever find it um i've talked about that before i don't have time to talk about that
01:16:16 right now um check out bb warfield and other post-millennials um there are easy biblical
01:16:22 interpretations of that particular parable if that's what you're hung up on many of us have
01:16:26 just assumed that hell will have a hundred times more people than heaven i believe that that's wrong
01:16:32 and there's a very there's very clear faithful biblical ways of dealing with that okay of dealing
01:16:38 with the verses that make it allude to the sense that hell will far outpopulate heaven right now
01:16:43 for the record i do believe that hell outpopulates heaven but as a post-millennial i believe that you
01:16:50 know the leaven will work through the batch of dough the mustard seed grows into a tree that
01:16:55 fills the earth the stone cut by no human hands will grow into a mountain filling the earth and
01:17:00 that more and more and more and more there will be not just the expanse of chrysidom in christian
01:17:05 culture but there will also be an increase a massive increase in individual christian people
01:17:12 in terms of regeneration true eternal christian people i believe that and so on the one hand
01:17:21 a christian nation christian nationalism whatever you want to call it it will not happen
01:17:30 apart from the bottom up bottom up meaning we need james white has said this i agree
01:17:37 we need more regenerate hearts.
01:17:40 We need more churches,
01:17:42 more gospel preaching.
01:17:45 We need more Christians being faithful
01:17:47 and doing the work of an evangelist.
01:17:49 We need more salvation,
01:17:51 more regeneration.
01:17:53 But here's where I would disagree
01:17:55 with some of my brothers in Christ.
01:17:57 And I would say,
01:17:58 it's not either or,
01:18:00 it's both and.
01:18:02 It is bottom up. 0.99
01:18:03 We need more Christians. 1.00
01:18:04 it is also top down i'll leave you with this three percent of the population 0.96
01:18:13 namely the lgbtg hot three percent not anymore they're not three percent anymore
01:18:19 but three percent of the total population less than three percent at the time with a strategic
01:18:27 calculated plan
01:18:30 to execute patiently
01:18:32 and slowly over decades
01:18:34 they won the entire nation
01:18:37 so don't tell me 0.96
01:18:40 that a minority of faithful Christians
01:18:43 can't make a difference 0.99
01:18:45 sodomites did
01:18:49 I'd like to think 1.00
01:18:52 that the gospel of Jesus Christ
01:18:56 is more potent and more powerful than sodomy.
01:19:02 3% of the population, less than 3%,
01:19:07 they made a deliberate, intentional, strategic plan
01:19:11 to accomplish over the course of 40, 50, 60 years.
01:19:16 And they did it. 0.82
01:19:19 And now all of America just assumes that same-sex mirage 0.97
01:19:25 is virtuous and moral you need moral people truly moral people and that comes from regenerate people 0.99
01:19:38 and if you're going to get regenerate people you need preaching gospel preaching if you're
01:19:43 going to get that you need preachers and you need churches yes and amen you need that
01:19:49 and yet at the same time at the same time the law teaches it's it's it's both and you've heard it
01:19:59 said politics is downstream of culture okay but then explain to me where we're at as a culture
01:20:06 on the lgbt craziness in relation to a burger fell a burger fell was a supreme court ruling 0.69
01:20:15 so there you have politics state government making rendering a judgment 0.63
01:20:22 and then you see the culture is already heading towards sexual insanity but
01:20:31 look at it statistically look it it exponentially expedited in terms of we we went from same-sex
01:20:43 marriage should be legal to drag queen's story hour in like 15 minutes that's not a coincidence
01:20:52 because politically politics is downstream of culture if you have a culture that's not moral
01:20:59 you can have bad laws at the same time though when you have bad laws it also it's a cycle it's a
01:21:07 vicious cycle it makes the the culture become even more immoral and so what i'm arguing for
01:21:15 and the christian nationalists that that i would say that i i yeah i'm linking arms with these
01:21:21 brothers i think they're good guys i think they're solid my particular strain would be the post
01:21:26 millennial general the theonomic vein some of these guys are all millennial um some of them
01:21:33 classic premill uh some of them are theonomic some of them aren't some of them are presuppositional
01:21:40 mantillian some of them are more uh tomistic and and a bigger fan of you know natural law and these
01:21:47 kinds of things from from aquinas but one of the things that we all agree on is uh the nation must
01:21:53 be christian it must be protestant a pan-protestant christian nation it should be creedal not
01:22:01 confessional so it's not discriminating between denominations creedal something all protestant
01:22:07 christians can agree on at the federal level and it must be it must punish evil and praise the good
01:22:17 and the state not be any bigger than that and then with evil how do you define it the ten commandments
01:22:23 i get there as a theonomist other guys get there from natural law either way it's the ten
01:22:30 commandments and what does it look like to to legislate and enforce the ten commandments
01:22:36 well it looks like having a a good grasp of the distinction between sins and crimes
01:22:42 a lot of that being defined by the the nature the difference between private and public
01:22:49 understanding case law understanding the bible prescribing penalties as maximum
01:22:55 penalties for repeat offenders who are brazen in public with their sin.
01:23:05 And then understanding with the first table of the law, like the Sabbath, for instance,
01:23:09 the state cannot mandate a day of worship because only God can command the heart of
01:23:17 God, regenerate the heart of God to where it can truly worship.
01:23:21 But the state can mandate and enforce a day of rest.
01:23:24 that's what a sabbath law is it doesn't force people to worship the triune god
01:23:30 but what it does is it closes down businesses
01:23:34 so don't think um when you think about sabbath laws don't think about a police officer
01:23:44 tying someone up and forcing them to say christ is lord what you should think about in christian
01:23:51 nationalistic terms with Sabbath laws is you should think about Chick-fil-A. That's what we
01:23:58 mean. That's what we're talking about. A day of rest, but it's one that is actually enforced by
01:24:04 the state. I will admit that. So it's not just the independent private business, their decision
01:24:10 like Chick-fil-A to take off Sunday, but the state is saying, um, you're not allowed to open
01:24:16 on sunday now that being said with sabbatarianism we still hold to works of necessity and works of
01:24:27 mercy so there would be hospitals open on the sabbath there would still be electricity available
01:24:34 on the sabbath there would still be the fire department and certain police officers it would
01:24:41 be maybe a skeleton crew at some, some level, um, and certain, you know, working in certain shifts
01:24:47 and doing these kinds of things to be able to cut back. Um, but yes, works of mercy and works
01:24:53 of necessity for emergency would still be open on the Sabbath and it would not take society long
01:24:59 to be able to function with a six day work week. We don't think that way right now because
01:25:04 we're antinomian we're lawless christians even are antinomian and lawless we don't think about
01:25:11 preparing for the sabbath but you can live that way if you're intentional so all that being said
01:25:18 the last thing is just this is it bottom up or top down all the christian nationalists that i know
01:25:24 that i'm talking to guys who would wear that hat there's differences in our theology i've already
01:25:28 expressed that but all they're saying is it's both it's both and and i would agree it's both
01:25:35 we need to preach the gospel we need more churches we need more evangelism because we need more
01:25:41 christians we need more regenerate hearts but here's the deal that's not all we need that's not
01:25:48 all we need because three percent of the population was sodomites were able to change everything
01:25:56 and we've got some regenerate hearts do we have a lot of guys who are professing to be christians
01:26:04 that aren't actually christians because of nominal christianity in america yes that's a thing i
01:26:09 understand it is a thing but we still have some regenerate hearts truly christian people in
01:26:15 america we do and i would be willing to argue that we have a lot more than three percent
01:26:22 even if we're talking about
01:26:23 truly regenerate Christians in America 0.99
01:26:26 I believe it's still
01:26:27 greater than 3% of the population
01:26:29 so we need more
01:26:33 but we also need to educate
01:26:35 and disciple the regenerate Christians
01:26:37 we already have
01:26:38 and part of their discipleship
01:26:42 needs to be this 0.57
01:26:42 that Christians are not
01:26:45 called by Jesus
01:26:47 to constantly lose
01:26:49 that's the problem we need more christians but we also need to educate the christians
01:26:57 we already have that they are allowed to wield power
01:27:02 the bible the biblical principle in regards to ruling is not that christians can't rule
01:27:12 not that ruling or wielding power is inherently evil the biblical principle when it comes to
01:27:19 to ruling and when it comes to power is that we must rule righteously. A husband is a servant
01:27:30 ruler, but make no mistake, he is a king. He is a ruler in his home. Peter even says that Sarah
01:27:39 called her husband Lord, not Lord of Lords. That title belongs to Jesus alone, but lowercase l,
01:27:47 lord lord in his home the gospel does not call christian husbands to not be lords who rule
01:27:59 with real authority in their homes what the christian gospel calls us to do instead
01:28:05 as husbands is to rule righteously not to abdicate power but to wield it righteously
01:28:13 not to not lead but to lead like jesus does jesus is the head of the church he nourishes the church
01:28:24 he laid his life down for the church but he's also in authority over the church he tells the
01:28:31 church what to do he does that's all i think christian nationalists are saying is we want
01:28:38 the nation to be publicly and explicitly have an allegiance to christ jesus not just theism
01:28:45 but the christian god the triune god we want that to be protestant we want it to be creedal
01:28:52 not confessional and we want the state to be small enough to stop doing the things god never told it
01:29:00 to do like welfare and education but big enough to effectively do what god has called it to do
01:29:08 which is to wield the sword against evil and to do that we have to define evil which means 0.93
01:29:14 by what standard and if we don't use the standard of scripture then you get tranny nationalism 0.75
01:29:23 drag queen story hour and so yeah given that as the alternative we prefer christian nationalism 0.61
01:29:31 that there's a standard to define evil and it should be the ten commandments god's moral law
01:29:37 And yes, that does include the first four of those commandments, the first table of the law. 0.97
01:29:43 And how do you do that in a nation where there will inevitably be non-Christians as citizens, a part of it? 0.99
01:29:50 Well, distinguish between crimes and sins, public and private. 0.98
01:29:58 And figuring that out, albeit with inevitably plenty of mistakes, plenty of casualties,
01:30:05 All of that is vastly superior to what we have now.
01:30:11 And that's where I hang my hat.
01:30:14 That's why I'm here.
01:30:15 Because it's not whether, but which.
01:30:19 We can argue as a nation about how to enforce the Sabbath. 0.68
01:30:24 Or we can argue as a nation over breastfeeding men. 0.95
01:30:31 You choose. 0.92
01:30:33 Thanks for tuning in.
01:30:34 Can I be frank with you for just a second, right here at the end? Look, some of you guys,
01:30:39 you're financially supporting this ministry, and from the bottom of my heart, I say thank you. I
01:30:44 cannot thank you enough. However, some of you, you just, you can't afford it. In fact, some of you,
01:30:52 you shouldn't afford it. Let's be honest. I mean, we're living in Joe Biden's ridiculous economy.
01:30:58 Our nation and our totalitarian political elites lost their minds over the last three years 0.91
01:31:07 due to COVID. We have written checks that we simply cannot cash. It doesn't matter if people
01:31:14 change the definition of a recession. We are living in a recession right now regardless.
01:31:20 Some of you are struggling to afford a carton of eggs at the grocery store. You cannot support
01:31:27 financially this ministry at this time, nor should you, but you could still help us tremendously.
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