The NXR Podcast - BONUS EPISODE - Consider These 7 Doctrines When Looking For A Church ｜ Live Pastor Joel Webbon

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00:00:42 Hi, this is Pastor Joel with Right Response Ministries. Welcome. Thanks for joining us for

00:00:47 another one of our live Monday videos. If you want to follow along with all of our content that we

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00:01:18 watch three full-length videos a week. That's going to be on Sunday, the Lord's Day, and then

00:01:24 Monday, and then Tuesday. Every Sunday, you'll find the full-length sermon that I preach from

00:01:31 the pulpit at Covenant Bible Church in Central Texas. I am, first and foremost, the local pastor

00:01:37 of Covenant Bible Church, Covenant Bible Church in Georgetown, Texas, at Central Texas, about 45

00:01:43 minutes north of Austin if you're in any you know vicinity close to that a lot of people we've got

00:01:50 people who are driving currently from New Braunfels we've got people coming from San Antonio we've got

00:01:55 people coming from Austin we've got people coming from Temple so we we have lots of people who are

00:02:00 willing to drive hour hour and a half as far as two and a half hours to our church because sadly

00:02:05 that's what I'm going to be addressing in today's video good churches are few and far between good

00:02:11 uncompromised, biblically faithful churches are very hard to find right now. So I'll start with

00:02:16 that. If you're anywhere in that Central Texas arena, then look us up. The website's covenantbible.org.

00:02:24 So it's not covenantbiblechurch.org that was taken. So just covenantbible.org, covenantbible.org,

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00:03:32 the ones that people are asking multiple times

00:03:35 or multiple people are asking the same kind of questions.

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00:03:54 then on monday by 2 p.m 2 p.m on our youtube channel you'll find the full length video live

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00:04:08 every monday and then lastly our third full length show that we do is every tuesday at 2 p.m central

00:04:14 time you'll find it again on our podcast platform with um with itunes or spotify etc and on our

00:04:21 youtube channel and that is our flagship interview show called theology applied again that's theology

00:04:28 applied what you'll find the remainder of the week wednesday thursday friday saturday is going

00:04:33 to be either clips from theology applied or it's going to be clips from the sermon that i preach

00:04:37 at covenant bible or it's going to be taking just one question and one answer from our monday videos

00:04:44 and so if you want to follow everything subscribe to our youtube channel click the bell watch every

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00:04:56 Monday, the live Q&A, and Tuesday, the live interview called Theology Applied.

00:05:01 All right, so without further ado, let's go ahead and jump into today's topic.

00:05:06 How do we find a biblically faithful, uncompromised church?

00:05:11 If I am churchless and I'm looking for a church, maybe I was, you know, maybe I've never really

00:05:17 found a solid church to belong to or sadly many of you probably fall into the category of being

00:05:24 someone who was previously a faithful member in a local church for five years 10 years 15 20 25

00:05:31 years you're not a chronic chronic church hopper you were a faithful consistent member in a local

00:05:38 church but over the last three years that church has nosedived they have completely discredited

00:05:45 themselves they have compromised whether it be on the issues of branch covidian cultish behavior

00:05:51 love your neighbor by getting the jab you love your neighbor by getting the 17th booster love

00:05:57 your neighbor by wearing two masks love your neighbor by this love your neighbor by that

00:06:01 whether it's the the church compromising on covid or whether it's the church compromising

00:06:06 on wokeology with critical race theory and intersectionality the whole dei diversity

00:06:13 equity inclusion maybe your church you know started a diversity council right they're not

00:06:19 technically elders but there's this diversity council 60 of it is made up of women and people

00:06:26 of color to give their input that influences the elders of your church on how to preach and what 1.00

00:06:31 ministries they should have and and you're sick of it and rightly so and so you're trying to find

00:06:36 another church you've been unsuccessful this video today may not necessarily completely

00:06:42 solve all those problems good solid biblical churches are still few and far between but at

00:06:48 least we can maybe narrow it down a bit i'm hoping to at least provide some categories some

00:06:54 characteristics for you today that you can look for as you're searching and trying to find a solid

00:06:59 church to belong to in church membership so that's what i want to address i want to address

00:07:04 the person who is currently churchless and who's looking for a church and wants to speed up that

00:07:10 process, right? You don't want to go to a church and sit there for six months, right? And then

00:07:16 find out that the church is subtly woke, you know, or sit there for, you know, a year and a half and

00:07:23 then find out that the church isn't really reformed in their soteriology and it's kind of

00:07:29 middle of the road or whatever it might be. So here are seven doctrines that I think are

00:07:36 integral. I think they're vital when it comes to looking for a church. I think that these are

00:07:41 what I would consider to be deal breakers. Now, I'll say up front as a disclaimer, I recognize

00:07:47 that not everybody who subscribes to this channel, not everybody who follows this ministry

00:07:52 shares the same theological convictions as I do. So, some of these I think are within the realm

00:07:59 of Christian orthodoxy. They're deal breakers across the board. It should be a deal breaker for 0.99

00:08:04 everyone and then some of them are deal breakers for me and deal breakers for a lot of you who

00:08:10 follow this channel who are like-minded and share some of the same theological convictions

00:08:14 but may not necessarily be a deal breaker for somebody else because you hold to a different

00:08:20 conviction and it's something that falls into the realm in terms of theological triage in the

00:08:26 secondary category rather than a primary category but nonetheless that disclaimer being made now

00:08:32 seven doctrines that you should carefully consider as you're looking for a local church.

00:08:39 Number one, confessionally reformed. Confessionally reformed. Let me take those two words and break

00:08:47 it down. And I'll start with this. As I move on and I get through all seven of these, I know that

00:08:53 there'll be someone who objects and says, well, you listed seven doctrines and none of them were

00:09:00 even the gospel shouldn't that have made the list i mean shouldn't that be the top number one

00:09:04 doctrine much less the top seven the gospel of jesus christ uh yes it should and that's what

00:09:11 i'm addressing in the first one confessionally reformed well you didn't say the gospel yeah i

00:09:17 did confessionally reformed wait a second are you saying that you have to be reformed into

00:09:22 hear me out okay so charles spurgeon who every everybody likes including arminians including

00:09:29 provisionist. A lot of people like Charles Spurgeon while hating Calvinism, which I find

00:09:34 ironic. But nonetheless, Charles Spurgeon, once famously or infamously, depending on how you

00:09:40 interpret it, he said that Calvinism is the gospel. Now, for the record, I am not willing

00:09:46 to go quite as far as Spurgeon. I agree with Spurgeon on a multitude of theological topics

00:09:53 and issues. In this regard, I would distinguish myself from Spurgeon by simply offering a little

00:10:01 bit more clarity of language. What I would say is that Calvinism is the most faithful theological

00:10:08 framework for presenting the gospel. Spurgeon said Calvinism is the gospel. Again, I would say

00:10:18 Spurgeon says Calvinism is the gospel.

00:10:20 Webin says, I believe that Calvinism is the most biblically faithful theological framework

00:10:27 for presenting the unadulterated, uncompromised gospel.

00:10:33 Okay, so all that being said, I'm distinguishing reformed theology, namely the five points

00:10:40 of Calvinism, total depravity, unconditional election, limited atonement or definite atonement,

00:10:45 irresistible grace and perseverance of all saints i am distinguishing the tulip

00:10:50 the reformed view of soteriology that word soteriology just means doctrine of salvation so

00:10:57 a reformed calvinistic view of salvation i'm distinguishing that from the gospel itself

00:11:04 and rather i'm labeling that a framework a theological system and framework for

00:11:10 accurately presenting the gospel so all that being said i believe that a sufficient not necessarily

00:11:16 a perfectly theologically accurate or or deeply well-rounded and robust gospel presentation but

00:11:26 nonetheless a sufficient gospel presentation can be made by an arminian not a pelagian which most

00:11:35 arminians or they would call themselves arminians that are really um if we're to be technical and

00:11:40 to be accurate are really pelagian in the sense that um they're not synergist that they believe

00:11:46 that god is reaching down as it were to man and man is reaching up and it's a collaboration of

00:11:52 god and man that brings about salvation there are many today that would totally deny the doctrine

00:11:58 of total depravity. Jacobus Arminius, he actually has one of the most poignant quotes in regards to

00:12:07 total depravity. He affirmed total depravity, what made him Arminian among many things, but one of 0.95

00:12:12 them being this little loophole is what I would consider it, but the loophole being prevenient 1.00

00:12:19 grace. Now, I don't believe that that's a biblical doctrine, but that's what allowed Jacobus to be

00:12:26 able to affirm the bible's depiction of man anthropology apart from salvation who is man

00:12:33 totally depraved not utterly depraved doing as much sinful things as outwardly as he possibly

00:12:38 could but totally depraved meaning his reason and rationale his conscience his his body and flesh

00:12:44 prone towards decay and disease and death and in every regard a man is totally depraved not

00:12:51 utterly depraved doing as much evil outwardly as he possibly could but totally depraved in terms

00:12:58 of his nature and his heart and his reason he cannot and will not ever choose god god has to

00:13:07 first do something miraculous right it's that's the the linchpin of reformed theology is that

00:13:14 regeneration precedes faith regeneration meaning being born again right we're new creatures in

00:13:22 christ jesus is what the bible teaches if any man is in christ he is a new creature a new

00:13:27 creation right your choices people have free will not limitless free will not autonomous

00:13:34 free will but people do have liberty of choices the problem is that every creature their spectrum

00:13:42 of choices available to them is bound by their nature so human beings made in the image of god

00:13:50 even though that image of god has been tarnished by sin all right total depravity still a vestige

00:13:56 of the image of god remains in all people both christians and non-christians alike and so because

00:14:01 human beings are the pinnacle of god's earthly creation even despite the fall and the curse of

00:14:07 sin, human beings are superior creatures, earthly creatures to animals, to a dog or a cat or a cow

00:14:16 or a whale. And so because we're superior in our nature, I would argue, and Jonathan Edwards and

00:14:22 others would argue, that there is a wider spectrum of choices made available to us. Whereas animals,

00:14:30 for the most part, their choices are more tightly bound than ours, predominantly just instinct.

00:14:37 So we have a wider spectrum of choices, but we do not have a limitless spectrum of choices.

00:14:43 Our nature is what ultimately limits and binds our choices.

00:14:47 Our choice, our spectrum of choices available to us is limited and set very strictly by

00:14:55 our nature.

00:14:55 For instance, you cannot choose to be nine feet tall.

00:15:00 You cannot will yourself to fly, right?

00:15:03 Because your nature doesn't allow for it.

00:15:05 So there are certain choices you cannot make because your finite creaturely nature limits

00:15:12 you, limits you.

00:15:13 Now, as the pinnacle of all earthly creation, human beings made in the image of God, even

00:15:18 despite the fall, we have a wider spectrum of choices made available to us than, than

00:15:24 some kind of primitive animal.

00:15:27 Yet one of the choices because of total depravity, because of the curse of sin and the way that

00:15:33 it has marred every facet of of human beings our will our nature our our rationale our conscience

00:15:43 our morals the way that that man has been totally marred and depraved by the curse of sin one choice

00:15:50 that is not within our wheelhouse our spectrum of choices made available to us is the choice

00:15:57 to believe the gospel and obey the commandments of god that that's just not a choice that people

00:16:03 can make an unbeliever can outwardly align themselves in terms of their speech and behavior

00:16:10 to a degree varying degrees based on the person an unbeliever can can outwardly align themselves

00:16:19 with god's moral law as found in the scripture what i'm saying is that an unbeliever can can 0.97

00:16:26 get married and never commit adultery now they're going to commit adultery of the heart

00:16:32 which the christian does from time to time as well but outwardly never commit adultery 0.64

00:16:38 outwardly not steal outwardly there are plenty of non-believers that go their entire life and

00:16:44 they never physically outwardly literally murder someone praise god praise god but what they can't

00:16:53 do what they can't do is please the lord romans 14 says anything that does not proceed from faith

00:16:59 this sin. Hebrews 11 says that, um, without faith, it is impossible to please him, to please God.

00:17:06 And, and therefore, so, you know, that raises another question. What is it to do something

00:17:10 in faith? I've often defined this for my congregation as a, to do something in faith

00:17:16 is to do it both with a dependence on God's grace and a desire for God's glory. I'll say that again,

00:17:24 to do something in faith is to do it with a dependence on God's grace and a desire for God's

00:17:31 glory meaning that the atheist could do something outwardly in his behaviors that actually does

00:17:38 align with the moral will of God like not cheating on his spouse and yet he will not be faithful in

00:17:46 his marriage with a dependence on God's grace rather it will be a reliance on himself and it

00:17:53 also will not be a dependence on God's grace or a desire for God's glory. It'll be a desire for his

00:17:59 own happiness and at best a desire for the good of his children, for the good of his wife, for

00:18:04 the collective happiness of mankind and the betterment of society. But what it'll never be

00:18:10 is obedience to God's moral will from the heart with a desire to glorify God. And therefore his

00:18:18 righteousness is as filthy rags even though he's outwardly doing that which aligns with the moral

00:18:24 will of god it is ultimately not pleasing to god and that choice to do something in faith to believe

00:18:31 the gospel and to to live out um in accordance with god's law but from from a a response from

00:18:40 a response of gratitude for the free grace that we have by faith alone in christ that is um something

00:18:47 that an unbeliever can't do why because our choices are bound by our nature and the sin

00:18:55 nature does not allow for that choice romans chapter 8 the mind of the sinful man is not

00:19:01 indifferent not neutral um but hostile towards god's law it does not submit to god's law nor

00:19:11 can it it's unwilling it does not nor can it it's unable it cannot so so the nature the sin nature

00:19:21 of fallen humanity apart from regeneration which is a work of the holy spirit where he removes

00:19:27 this is ezekiel 36 removes the heart of flesh and replaces it with the heart of stone rather

00:19:32 and replaces it with a heart of flesh apart from being born again this is john chapter 3 the

00:19:38 discourse between Jesus and Nicodemus the Pharisee he says that a person cannot enter the

00:19:44 kingdom of heaven he cannot even see the kingdom of heaven unless he first be born again have a

00:19:53 heart transplant the heart of stone removed a heart of flesh that's malleable and receptive

00:19:58 and responsive to the things of God unless that first happens he will not enter the kingdom and

00:20:06 he won't even move towards the kingdom because he can't even see the kingdom this is what Jesus

00:20:12 says so what does all that amount to again it amounts to affirming the principle that choices

00:20:18 are limited by our nature and in spiritual terms speaking of human nature in spiritual terms because

00:20:25 of sin and the way that it totally mars our nature human nature because of sin and the doctrine of 0.95

00:20:32 total depravity, an unbeliever, apart from saving grace, apart from salvation, an unbeliever does

00:20:40 not submit to God, nor can he. It's outside of his wheelhouse, his spectrum of choices, because it's 0.98

00:20:47 not within his nature. It's like, it's like asking him to be nine feet tall. It's like asking him to

00:20:53 spout wings, sprout wings and fly. His nature does not allow for it. So all that being said,

00:21:01 the linchpin of Reformed theology is regeneration precedes faith. So it's not faith that you need

00:21:07 to make a choice to believe in God, and then that precedes regeneration. So it's not believe in God,

00:21:13 and if you choose to believe in God, you'll be rewarded for making the right choice with a new

00:21:19 heart. You choose to believe in God, as you currently are, under the curse of sin. And if

00:21:25 you make the right choice to believe in God, then the reward, the response, God's response to man's

00:21:32 initiating choice is that God will reward you with a new heart. No. If any man is in Christ, he is a

00:21:40 new creation, a new creature. The nature has to change first in order for us to believe. Regeneration

00:21:48 precedes faith. So all this being said, again, that's not synonymous with the gospel. So I differ

00:21:53 i love spurgeon but i disagree with him on this point that is not a one-to-one ratio of being

00:21:59 synonymous with the gospel however i think that the the better language to use is to say that the

00:22:05 reformed tradition and particularly reformed soteriology a calvinistic view of salvation

00:22:14 is not the gospel itself but it is the most biblically faithful theological framework

00:22:20 for presenting the gospel accurately and robustly so number one seven doctrines number one

00:22:28 confessionally reformed so we've handled gospel and reformation theology but what do i mean by

00:22:35 confessionally reformed because it's not just reformed but confessionally reformed i'll say

00:22:41 it like this i spent years of my life my christian life and my pastoral life the first

00:22:49 seven years of pastoral ministry exhausted and wearied by doing theology constantly and

00:23:00 indefinitely, it felt like, doing theology a la carte, a la carte, meaning I've used

00:23:09 this analogy a few times and I recognize that it's kind of silly, but I think it gets the

00:23:14 point across. If you remember the good old days and you grew up in the South or the Midwest,

00:23:21 you probably remember Luby's, right? It's that, you know, mom's cooking kind of cafeteria style,

00:23:27 you know, Southern comfort food. And what you do is you go through this line, it's a buffet

00:23:32 and you get a tray or if you're smart, right? So all you can eat, you pay the same price either

00:23:38 way you get you know not a tray you get three trays and and you get multiple plates and you're

00:23:44 loading up you know this this seven course meal and you're getting some fried chicken or chicken

00:23:49 fried steak and you're getting some mashed potatoes and gravy and fried okra and pretty

00:23:54 much everything's fried at the end you're getting you know some jello you know or whatever it might

00:23:59 be and you're getting rolls and this and that and that and this well I felt like I had been in a

00:24:04 Luby's buffet line for years in terms of theology. And I had done a few trades, which I know is a

00:24:12 no-no. And each time you get penalized, you know, I shouldn't have gotten, you know, the fried

00:24:16 chicken because there's actually this other chicken that's even better. And I'm going to put

00:24:19 that back and switch it out for this. And it's like, I had done that, this theology a la carte,

00:24:25 right? So it's like you come to a new text in scripture, or you just come to a new challenge,

00:24:30 just experientially, personally in your life

00:24:33 where there's certain doctrines

00:24:34 you didn't even know they existed, right?

00:24:36 Like, well, what does the Bible say 0.94

00:24:38 about women preaching from the pulpit? 1.00

00:24:39 Or what does the Bible say about head coverings?

00:24:41 What does the Bible say about eschatology?

00:24:43 What does the Bible say about this?

00:24:45 What does it say about that?

00:24:46 And each time you have to go back to the drawing board,

00:24:49 back to the buffet line and decide,

00:24:51 you know, did I make the right choice?

00:24:53 Do I go with the fried chicken

00:24:54 or the chicken fried steak, you know?

00:24:56 And you're doing all this work

00:24:58 and it's like I finally finally got towards the end of that Luby's buffet line and all of a sudden

00:25:05 I see this little chalkboard sign and it says chef's special seven course meal and it gives

00:25:13 each item for each course and I'm looking at my three trays and seven plates you know and I'm

00:25:22 realizing all right I've been I've been trying to master this you know Luby's buffet line for you

00:25:27 know, 10 plus years now. And I'm looking over there at the chef special and I see like, I'm

00:25:33 like 93% of what the chef said. And now I have a real serious choice to make. I'm either going to

00:25:41 say that, that the 7% where I differ from the chef's recommendation is because I'm better than

00:25:48 the chef, because I know more than the chef, because the chef got most of his recommendations

00:25:54 right but at the end of the day this particular lubies connoisseur knows more than the guy who

00:26:01 actually cooks up the food or i can say maybe the chef knows something i don't and i could just take

00:26:09 his word for it and i could go ahead and swap out that seven percent where i differ from the chef

00:26:14 and just trust that the chef got it right not just reform doctrine but confessionally reformed

00:26:22 not just a calvinistic baptist who holds to the five points of calvinism but he's a

00:26:27 dispensationalist rejects covenant theology right he's a non-sabbatarian uh he's you know he

00:26:35 may maybe the chef in this case if we're talking about reformed historic confessions

00:26:42 to the big ones being the 1689 second london baptist confession of faith that i prescribed to

00:26:48 or the Westminster, 1646, Westminster Confession of Faith.

00:26:52 Those are the two primary ones on both sides of the aisle,

00:26:54 whether you're Paedo-Baptist or Credo-Baptist,

00:26:56 but both historic confessions of Reformed theology, robust and detailed.

00:27:04 You know, the 1689 is about, you know, in book form, it's about 85 pages long.

00:27:08 So, you know, it's not 700 pages, but it's also not your general statement of faith.

00:27:13 It's three pages long that you would find, you know, on a church website.

00:27:15 it's it's lengthy and it's thorough and here's the deal it's not just one chef right you you've

00:27:23 got nehemiah cox and benjamin keech and you've got all these different pastors and theologians

00:27:28 that came out collectively and and worked through these theological debates for hours and days and

00:27:35 months and years and finally came to a consensus whether it be the westminster or the 1689 the

00:27:42 process the general process and how they determined these doctrines as being biblically faithful is

00:27:47 is comparable on both sides so either the not just the chef but the team of world-class chefs

00:27:55 got it right and i might add all the chefs over the last uh hundreds of years right because these

00:28:03 these are documents historic confessions that that somebody you know a team of brilliant bible

00:28:09 scholars came up with but but not just that they have been tried and true tested and tried and true

00:28:16 over the last centuries by other people saying yeah the Westminster Confession of Faith is still

00:28:22 good 1689 still good so either either these guys are right or or they're wrong but um but I got it

00:28:35 right. And so I spent so much of my life and it was, it's not just that, um, that I, that I was

00:28:41 risking the, the very real opportunity of theological error, but I was also exhausting

00:28:48 myself. A lot of my pastoral ministry opportunities were swallowed up with, with, I would just, I had

00:28:58 to study. I had to study. I still have to study to show myself approved. Every Christian does.

00:29:03 I'm not negating that, but there's an immense relief and safety and security that comes with

00:29:10 being inside of a historic confessionally reformed tradition. That's what I'm saying.

00:29:20 So all that being said, seven doctrines that I'd be looking for if I'm looking for a local church.

00:29:25 The first one is I want that church to be reformed and I want that church ideally to be

00:29:31 confessionally reformed, not just a Calvinist like John Piper would be an example. Sam Storms

00:29:38 would be an example. Wayne Grudem would be an example. John MacArthur would be an example.

00:29:43 I don't just want him to be a Calvinist, Calvinistic Baptist, but I want him to be

00:29:49 confessionally reformed, a reformed Baptist. Somebody who is not just holding to the five

00:29:54 points of Calvinism and reformed in terms of their view of soteriology, but I want them to

00:29:59 be thoroughly reformed i want them to be reformed in the category of soteriology salvation certainly

00:30:05 but i also want them to be reformed in their view not just of of the gospel but their view of the

00:30:10 law i want them to be sabbatarian i want them to be covenantal and not dispensationalist i i want

00:30:19 them to be thoroughly reformed or confessionally reformed tried tested and true so first thing

00:30:26 that I'd be looking for is a confessionally reformed church one because it's thorough it's

00:30:31 accurate it's tested and true but also because it binds the ordained ministers the officers of that

00:30:39 church elders and deacons or on the presbyterian side of the aisle you would have teaching elders

00:30:45 and ruling elders they have a bifurcation of elders so two some presbyteries would have three

00:30:50 types of elders but primarily two types of elders a teaching elder a ruling elder and then deacons

00:30:56 But in both regards, the officers, ordained officers of the church in the Presbyterian or Baptist church, if it's confessional, not just Calvinistic, but reformed, confessionally reformed, not only is that tried, not only has that passed the test of time and therefore provides a high level of doctrinal accuracy,

00:31:19 But it also provides a level of accountability, accountability and safety, because it binds the ordained officers of that local church within the theological parameters of a 85 page, not a three page general confession of faith on the website.

00:31:40 but but it binds them you know statement of faith but it binds them to a 85 page you know or 100

00:31:48 page depending what your font and print is but a much more thorough and lengthy and detailed

00:31:55 confession of faith or statement of faith so that you know when you show up at that church

00:32:00 that now guys can still compromise you know but but you at least stand a much better chance of

00:32:08 being able to trust that the elders and deacons ordained officers of this local church i they're

00:32:14 not just five point calvinist when it comes to salvation but they are confessionally reformed

00:32:19 i've got there's still things outside of the confessions head coverings is not covered by

00:32:23 the westminster head coverings is not covered by the 1689 so there's still going to be theological

00:32:29 questions that you're going to have to inquire where do the pastor stand on this particular

00:32:33 the issue but you've got at least 85 pages of doctrine that's settled that you you can know

00:32:39 where they stand and you can know that where they stand is where many other faithful men have stood

00:32:45 for centuries before them that's encouraging so number one would be confessionally reformed

00:32:52 all right so that covers calvinism that covers the gospel in terms of it's not synonymous with

00:32:57 the gospel but i'm including the gospel in that more particularly it being a a biblically faithful

00:33:02 theologically accurate framework for presenting the gospel and it can also covers historic

00:33:08 confessionalism that's number one number two covenant theology now some of these things fall

00:33:15 within the confession um but then some of them out of these seven doctrines are not covered by

00:33:20 confession but i view them as being vital um to a church is not only at the doctrinal positions that

00:33:27 that particular church holds to and preaches publicly from the pulpit, but doctrines that I

00:33:33 think are integral in the way that it shapes the actual living out of the Christian faith of a

00:33:40 local church. It shapes their praxis. It shapes the way they live, not just their theology and

00:33:49 theory, but their theology and practice. Okay, so we'll get to some of those, but first confessionally

00:33:53 reformed second covenant theology that's in both of the historic reformed confessions westminster

00:33:58 and the 1689 covenant theology but i think that it's worth its its own mention it's that important

00:34:05 for me i would not i would not be willing to take my wife and children to a dispensational church

00:34:13 that doesn't mean that every dispensational church is heretical that's certainly not true

00:34:19 there are guys who are generally biblically faithful who are dispensational ish like john

00:34:27 macarthur who by his own testimony would describe himself as you know um there's hard dispensationalists

00:34:35 and he would describe himself as a leaky dispensationalist i believe that john macarthur

00:34:39 by and large is a guy who has been incredibly faithful i'm very grateful for him um so hear

00:34:47 that disclaimer and take this with a grain of salt. Um, but if I lived in LA, which I would

00:34:52 never live there, but if I did live in LA with my wife and children, uh, we would not, we would not

00:34:58 be members at John MacArthur's church. Um, because I believe that dispensationalism is that

00:35:04 problematic. I believe that theologically, um, it is so problematic that even a leaky dispensational

00:35:11 approach is going to produce a fruit in my wife and me and my children that I do not want to see.

00:35:19 So, reformed, confessionally reformed, covenant theology, understanding that God works through

00:35:26 covenants. There's more that could be said about covenant theology, but we'll leave it there.

00:35:30 The third one would be, and this is kind of systematically building, but this is in the

00:35:35 vein of covenant theology biblical patriarchy biblical patriarchy whatever church that i'm

00:35:42 looking for i want to know that that church is patriarchal and as a litmus test this is this is

00:35:48 key as a litmus test i want to know that the pastors of that church are willing to say

00:35:53 the p word patriarchy from the pulpit not complementarian i want to know that they

00:36:01 are patriarchal and will say that they are patriarchal publicly without blushing.

00:36:07 Patriarchy simply means father rule, father rule, rule. Biblical patriarchy is the idea that first

00:36:15 and foremost, we live in the capital T, capital F, the father's world, that God is a father.

00:36:23 He's not a mother. It's not a sister. He is a father. He identifies himself and represents

00:36:29 himself and conveys himself in paternal terms as a father. He's the father of lights. Every good

00:36:36 and perfect gift comes down from the father, the father of light. So God is a father and God

00:36:43 predominantly works in the world through fathers. There are three divinely instituted or divinely

00:36:50 instituted spheres, sovereign spheres in human society. That's the home, the church, and the

00:36:56 state and each of these is governed by fathers there are familial fathers the mother is not the

00:37:04 head of the home husband is the head of his wife and he is the head of the home head of the children

00:37:10 the wife as mother in regards to her relationship with the children she bears authority but even her 0.55

00:37:17 authority works in concert and it stems from the father she's in a sense the the viceroy or the

00:37:26 deputy of the father, but he is the head of household. He's the head of household. So God,

00:37:33 the father works in the world through human fathers in the realm, the sovereign sphere of

00:37:40 the home, the family, God works through familial fathers in the church. God works through

00:37:46 ecclesiastical fathers, right? There's a reason why elders must be men. And the beauty of being 1.00

00:37:53 confessionally reformed c.a is that deacons as ordained officers in the church also are required

00:38:00 to be men the Westminster and the 1689 say this explicitly if you are part not a Calvinistic

00:38:07 Baptist church again right not just like an Acts 29 church or something but you're part of a true

00:38:12 blue confessionally historic reformed Baptist church or reformed Presbyterian church you're

00:38:19 going to have not only male elders but also a male diaconate male deacons i find it you know

00:38:26 i feel like it should be fairly obvious um that in acts chapter 6 where we see you know the

00:38:33 introduction of the diaconate that one of the things that the apostles asked for is you know

00:38:39 go and find us seven men filled with the holy spirit men right there from from the very beginning

00:38:47 we need seven deacons all of them need to be men and then somehow we end up with female deacons

00:38:52 later on i i think that's silly and i've done a lot of work and you guys have heard even in

00:38:58 recent episodes of theology applied with like zach garris which just came out a couple weeks

00:39:02 ago if you want you if you haven't watched that video you can go back and watch that but we talk

00:39:06 about the deaconate we talk about first timothy three likewise their wives and how some people

00:39:11 you know translate that as women so there's one list of qualifications for a male deacon and one

00:39:15 for, you know, list of qualifications for a female deacon. That's the wrong interpretation.

00:39:20 That's not how you read it. If you want more theological, you know, and biblical support for

00:39:26 that, you can watch that episode of Theology Applied. So I'm not going to spend a lot of time

00:39:29 on that right now. But the point is this, in the ecclesiastical sphere, the sovereign sphere of

00:39:34 the church, again, it's fathers that God works through. It is, you know, the leaders of the

00:39:40 church and i would argue again both elders and deacons are male and they are spiritual fathers

00:39:46 so it's familial fathers in the home it's ecclesiastical or spiritual fathers in the church

00:39:52 both elders and deacons and then it should be what's supposed to be as civil fathers in the

00:39:59 sphere of the state that we would have you know some guys would use the language of the christian

00:40:05 prince but even with that is not the christian princess is the christian prince that yes our

00:40:13 civil magistrates should be qualified men they should be men that's one of the judgments that

00:40:21 we see in the prophets in the old testament it's actually a judgment of god for a nation

00:40:26 a civil nation to be ruled by children or by women that's a judgment the fact that you have

00:40:35 of Nancy Pelosi. That is God's judgment. And certainly we have corrupt, terrible male civil

00:40:43 magistrates in our nation today. But that doesn't change God's word. The fact that there are bad

00:40:52 men who are in positions of civil authority doesn't mean that women should be in positions

00:40:59 of civil authority god is a father the father and he works and blesses the father's world the world

00:41:06 that he has made through human fathers in each of the three divine institutions that he established

00:41:12 familial fathers in the home ecclesiastical fathers in the church and civil fathers in the

00:41:19 state all right so confessionally reformed covenant theology speaking of covenants there's

00:41:25 always a covenant head, a federal head, right? This is just a basic understanding of covenant

00:41:31 theology and how covenants work. There's always a covenantal head. Adam is a covenantal head,

00:41:36 right? If you're not in Christ, you're in Adam. There's only two categories. You're either in

00:41:41 Christ, the second Adam, he is your federal representative, right? You're in Christ and

00:41:46 clothed in his righteousness. You have union with Christ by the spirit through faith, or you are in

00:41:53 the first Adam. You're either in the last Adam or the first Adam. If you're in the first Adam,

00:41:57 then you're underneath his federal headship. He represents you. He's the head of that covenant. 0.92

00:42:03 And as being a covenant member in Adam's covenant, then you're a covenant breaker

00:42:09 because Adam broke that covenant. It was a covenant of works that God established with

00:42:14 Adam and he broke the covenant and the penalty for breaking the covenant was death. And so

00:42:19 you're a dead man spiritually speaking you are a dead man walking you are under the just

00:42:24 condemnation of god and there's no hope apart from switching covenants switching your membership

00:42:29 and having a new covenant covenantal head federal head from the first adam under the covenant of

00:42:35 works where where you're a covenant breaker because your federal head broke that covenant

00:42:40 you have followed suit and broken that covenant too and and are due the the just penalties for

00:42:46 covenant breaking namely death and eternal death or you transfer membership to another covenant

00:42:53 namely the new covenant the covenant of grace with a new federal head namely christ who has fulfilled

00:43:00 all the terms of that covenant and he has fulfilled them not only for his own sake but for the benefit

00:43:06 in in the stead as a substitute for all the covenant members now christ is through faith

00:43:13 and by the work of the spirit you have union with christ and you are part of the new covenant

00:43:18 and you receive all its blessings and promises so confessionally reformed covenant theology is key

00:43:25 and biblical patriarchy flows out of covenant theology biblical patriarchy so i'd be looking

00:43:31 for a church that is reformed i want them to be more than just calvinistic i want them to be

00:43:36 confessionally reformed i want that church not to be dispensational i want them to adhere to

00:43:42 again see point a this is part of being confessionally reformed covenant theology

00:43:46 that is the historic confessional position i don't want a doctrine that burst onto the scenes in you

00:43:52 know 150 years ago aka dispensationalism i want an old doctrine that's been around for 2000 years

00:43:59 aka covenant theology so i want confessionally reformed churches i want covenant theology

00:44:06 churches and within covenant theology if they're really covenantal and they're not bashful about

00:44:11 it and they're not woke and they're not feminist and they're not just trying to kowtow to the

00:44:15 culture, then they're going to have no qualms and make no apology about being patriarchal because 0.99

00:44:22 covenant and patriarchy go hand in hand. It's hand in glove. And so I want to find a church

00:44:29 that adheres to biblical patriarchy. All right. Confessionally reformed covenant theology, 0.70

00:44:34 biblical patriarchy next presuppositionalism presuppositionalism i want to be a part of a

00:44:41 church if i'm looking for a church i want to find a church that is presuppositional i want that

00:44:47 church to be in line with cornelius van till and not with thomas aquinas in other words and this

00:44:56 is another that would take a lot of time if you want more details on this you can watch one of

00:45:00 our theology applied episodes that i did a while back with dr james white you could also go and

00:45:06 check out the sweater vest dialogues on canon channel and see a discourse between doug wilson

00:45:14 and james white about thomism those who would adhere to the teachings of thomas aquinas and

00:45:21 the problems with that thomas aquinas was ultimately commissioned by the roman catholic

00:45:26 church to essentially baptize, as it were, Aristotle. And so it's taking Greek and philosophy

00:45:37 and metaphysics and imposing those on the scripture. And basically, in a sense, I really

00:45:43 do believe that Thomism, in a sense, denies the premise of sola scriptura, that it basically says

00:45:51 that scripture is not sufficient, that we can't really understand the Trinity, we can't really

00:45:55 understand the essence and nature of God and the inner workings of the three persons of the Trinity

00:46:00 and we can't understand revelation and we can't understand how God speaks and we can't understand

00:46:04 this and we can't understand that apart from something apart from scripture plus something

00:46:11 else namely reason right divine revelation from God the scriptures special revelation but also

00:46:18 man's reason we need man's reason to supplement God's revelation in order to know what God has

00:46:24 actually set. Whereas presuppositionalism, Cornelius Van Til, obviously I believe it's

00:46:30 older than him. I believe it would track back all the way back to Romans chapter one and two with

00:46:34 the apostle Paul. But Cornelius Van Til is the one who is probably most known for this

00:46:40 presuppositional approach. And this was taken up by guys like Greg Bonson. And Greg Bonson is

00:46:45 often remembered in regards to how he took the presuppositional approach to scripture,

00:46:49 sola scriptura the scripture alone and and apply that into the realm of christian ethics and that's

00:46:57 where you get this idea of general equity theonomy and bonson did go on record saying that he was not

00:47:03 just a theonomist but a general equity theonomist which is again c point a the confessionally

00:47:08 reformed position that is what the 1689 and the westminster say in regards to the civil codes

00:47:16 under the old covenant given to israel uh that you know the moral law of god the ten commandments

00:47:21 the decalogue both the first table and the second second table love your neighbor as yourself are

00:47:27 our obligation to our neighbor first table love the lord your god with all your heart soul mind

00:47:31 and strength um so our obligation to god the ten commandments the decalogue is the moral law of god

00:47:37 and it endures forever it's immutable and that includes the fourth commandment of the sabbath

00:47:41 and jesus did not remove the sabbath but rather by virtue of being lord of the sabbath and by

00:47:46 virtue of his bodily resurrection jesus renewed not removed but renewed the sabbath from the last

00:47:53 day of the week to the first the sabbath still stands but is now the lord's day the first day

00:47:58 of the week so all that being said and that wasn't constantine in the roman catholic church that was

00:48:02 done for all the way back to the apostles we find it in scripture and it was done for hundreds of

00:48:06 years before Constantine made it cool. So all that being said, that's the Decalogue, the moral law of

00:48:11 God. But in terms of the civil codes, the civil law of God, like having a parapet, a border around

00:48:18 your roof, those kinds of things, or muzzling an ox when he treads the grain, we see as the example

00:48:23 of the apostles, the apostle Paul cites a civil code like muzzling an ox, and he uses that in the

00:48:30 general equity, right? The moral principle underneath that particular civil code given

00:48:36 to Israel under the old covenant, he takes the general moral principle and applies it to why

00:48:41 you should pay your pastor. Don't muzzle the ox while he treads the grain, right? The worker

00:48:45 deserves the wages. So all that means that's general equity theonomy. That's saying that

00:48:50 we're not just going to take the moral law of God. That's certainly eternal and immutable,

00:48:54 the 10 commandments, but we're also going to take the civil codes and we're not going to just take

00:48:59 the civil codes and do a one-step process of just dropping them wholesale on American culture today

00:49:07 in 2023 without any amendments or application or revisions. But what we're going to do is we're

00:49:15 going to take all the civil codes. We're going to track the civil codes back to the moral law

00:49:19 to find the general equity. And then we're going to, with wisdom, carefully apply that

00:49:24 to our time and our place today right so a border around your roof of your house to protect the

00:49:30 sanctity of human life uh speed limits on the road for cars right that you know so anyways all that

00:49:36 being said Bonson was a general equity theonomist um and he took he was a disciple of Cornelius

00:49:43 Van Til and he took the presuppositional presuppositional hermeneutics and and and

00:49:49 understanding the scripture and applied it to the realm of Christian ethics and that's where you get

00:49:53 general equity theonomy but more renowned than bonson's work on theonomy perhaps is his work

00:50:01 in the realm of apologetics and that's where we really get we get the work of cornelius van till

00:50:06 but now applied to a defense for the christian faith apologetics and that's where we get

00:50:12 presuppositional apologetics right if you're wondering well who who's a presuppositional

00:50:16 apologetic uh apologist today well that you know your quintessential examples would be you know

00:50:22 like James White or Jeff Durbin, right? This presuppositional approach, basically saying

00:50:28 that neutrality is a myth. There is no moral neutrality. Every man has an allegiance. Christ

00:50:34 said, you're either for me or you're against me. That man is per Romans chapter one. He knows the

00:50:40 truth, but he is lying and suppressing the truth and deeds of unrighteousness. The presuppositional

00:50:46 apologist rather than a classical apologist or evidential apologist the presuppositional

00:50:53 apologist what he's going to be very careful to insist again and again and again is he's going

00:50:58 to say that the bible is true and it's the highest authority so he's not going to say here's an

00:51:04 argument for from reason that supports the credibility and authority of the bible because

00:51:09 what the presuppositional apologist never wants to do is he doesn't want to inadvertently ever

00:51:14 say that there's a higher authority than scripture that you can trust scripture because this other

00:51:20 authority right and inadvertently what we're saying there is this other more um more credible

00:51:26 and higher authority scripture should be viewed as an authority because the higher authority said

00:51:31 so and what's the higher authority um evidence um reason um sense perception would be one of you

00:51:42 know the classical apologists would point towards they would say our five senses are reliable and

00:51:46 these are the reasons why we can trust that our five senses are reliable and here's you know

00:51:50 Aquinas and what he did with Aristotle in terms of of metaphysics and and and reason and these

00:51:56 kinds of things and and consciousness you know I think therefore I am you know those kinds of

00:52:01 things and and so we're gonna we're gonna start with you know man's consciousness and we're gonna

00:52:05 move from man's consciousness to argue that therefore uh the existence of God no we want

00:52:11 to argue down we want to start with god we want to start with the scripture and we want to say

00:52:16 you know this is true because the scripture says you know this is true and anytime you you you say

00:52:22 anything to the contrary like well how do i know that there is a god or how um we're going to call

00:52:27 you on it we're going to say that you're lying and suppressing the truth and deeds of unrighteousness

00:52:30 because that's what the bible said that god um the existence of god has been plainly revealed

00:52:36 displayed the character of god right his eternal um power and divine nature have been clearly

00:52:44 displayed and not just clearly displayed but but the bible actually says in romans 1 clearly

00:52:48 perceived right so not just that god clearly put the message out there uh but that it wasn't you

00:52:55 know it wasn't picked up right that you know it wasn't received it was lost in translation no

00:53:00 god god clearly displayed um his revelation natural revelation but but then also man perceived

00:53:08 the message was received by man it's been perceived by man and anytime man um he he

00:53:15 contradicts uh the existence of god and the truth of god's word um it's not because he's

00:53:20 ultimately ignorant it's because he's rebellious you could say it like this i think in many ways

00:53:27 the heart of presuppositional apologetics and just the presuppositional approach is that 0.66

00:53:33 that rebellion does not stem from ignorance but rather ignorance stems from rebellion

00:53:39 very often what unbelievers and even christians will buy into this rhetoric

00:53:44 but very often what you'll hear the unbelievers say is well i don't know if there's a god

00:53:50 and because i don't know if there's a god and you know essentially what they're saying is that it's

00:53:56 not my fault. God failed, right? The failure, the onus is on God to reveal himself and God failed

00:54:02 to sufficiently make himself known. And so therefore I'm intellectually ignorant. And 0.91

00:54:07 because I'm intellectually, uh, intellectually ignorant of God, because God failed to sufficiently 0.95

00:54:13 reveal himself, prove himself. Um, I'm therefore morally absolved in terms of my behavior, my

00:54:20 rebellion. So I'm free to rebel against God's law. I'm not bound by his law. I'm morally absolved

00:54:27 of guilt and culpability in terms of my rebellion because of my ignorance. And my ignorance is not

00:54:34 my fault. It's not culpable ignorance, willful ignorance. That too, ultimately God is at fault

00:54:40 because I'm not ignorant because I'm choosing to be ignorant because I'm lying and suppressing the

00:54:45 truth and deeds of unrighteousness precisely as the bible says but rather because god failed to

00:54:50 make himself known and i think that classical apologetics and evidential apologetics hear

00:54:58 that rhetoric of the unbeliever and uh and they give it credence in some measure to some extent

00:55:06 they say oh okay yeah okay whereas the presuppositional apologist someone like van till or 0.96

00:55:13 Bonson or James White or myself, we would say, no, you're a liar. How dare you? No, you're not 0.99

00:55:20 in the judge's seat. Jesus is not on trial. The triune God is not on trial here in your courtroom.

00:55:28 No, you stand in God's courtroom. He's in the judge's seat. The angels and host of angels and

00:55:35 the great cloud of witnesses, they're sitting in the jury seat. You're the defendant. You're the

00:55:42 one on trial. And God has already mounted an impenetrable prosecution. And he has proved

00:55:52 without a shred of doubt, without a reasonable doubt, that God has done everything he was

00:55:58 required to sufficiently reveal himself. And your problem is not that you're ignorant, 0.99

00:56:03 therefore you rebel. Your problem is that you're rebellious, therefore you give yourself a self 0.99

00:56:09 lobotomy as it were in order to try to be ignorant the chief problem with man anthropology 0.83

00:56:17 with the bible's anthropology and what it says about unregenerate man apart from salvation is 0.94

00:56:23 not that he's ignorant therefore he morally rebels it is that he is morally rebellious in his nature

00:56:30 because of sin in sin did my mother conceive me in iniquity i was brought forth david says in the

00:56:37 psalms from conception because of the curse of sin because he's under his father adam as federal

00:56:43 head in the covenant of works and he is a covenant breaker his whole nature has been marred by sin

00:56:49 and therefore he is a sinner and a rebel and because he's rebellious he chooses to make himself

00:56:57 ignorant ignorance stems from rebellion not the other way around presuppositional i want to go

00:57:04 to a church so all that being said that's the fourth characteristic out of these seven number

00:57:09 one confessionally reformed number two covenant theology number three biblical patriarchy number

00:57:14 four presuppositional i want to go to a church that's presuppositional because i believe that

00:57:19 the presupposition presuppositional church and presuppositional theology holds the scripture

00:57:25 in higher regard it's that simple i i think that that is the theological position that gives the

00:57:33 highest credence to scripture. And I want to go to a church that gives the highest credence

00:57:39 to scripture. So I'm going to opt for a presuppositional church rather than a Thomist

00:57:45 church. All right. Number five. Number five is, let me think, Kuyperianism. Now this is interesting

00:57:54 because John Harris, who's a friend of mine, I love John and he does such good work. John Harris

00:58:00 with conversations that matter. If you're not already subscribed to his channel, you need to

00:58:04 go over there. It's on YouTube. It's also on every major podcast platform, Spotify, iTunes,

00:58:11 et cetera, but conversations that matter. John Harris has been sounding the alarm on critical

00:58:18 race theory and the social justice gospel and those kinds of things since, I mean, he was one

00:58:23 of the first, you know, Votie Bauckham probably beat him by maybe a couple of years, but John

00:58:26 Harris was right there um you know it was like Votie Bauckham was maybe the earliest and then

00:58:32 you have you know Michael Fallon with Sovereign Nations he was early on warning guys and being

00:58:36 faithful about that John Harris was right around that time but one of the early guys who was who

00:58:42 got a lot of backlash for the record John Harris I I tweeted this the other day and um people liked

00:58:49 it because as a general concept if you don't name situations and people then then nobody's bothered

00:58:54 by it but i'll probably name a couple situations of people and offend half of you we'll probably

00:58:58 check out but um i i tweeted something like this i said um when i i've realized over the years i've

00:59:05 come to realize that it's actually quite easy to gain a large audience and popularity from a

00:59:13 biblically conservative theologically and culturally and politically conservative platform

00:59:17 being right i said this being right is not what gets you backlash what gets you backlash is not

00:59:24 being right it's being first israel always killed the prophets and then the later generations of

00:59:32 israel built tombs to honor those prophets right everybody likes charles spurgeon you know why

00:59:40 people like charles spurgeon because charles spurgeon has been safely buried underneath six

00:59:45 feet of dirt for over a hundred years that's why they like him if charles spurgeon was alive today

00:59:53 most of you would hate him you would well we like dr martin lloyd jones we just don't like macarthur

01:00:01 no no no what mark my words a hundred years from now when macarthur's good and dead

01:00:09 um your average christian will be talking about how yeah i stand with macarthur i wish we still

01:00:17 had macarthur today you know he he's probably rolling over in his grave i'd be on his side

01:00:22 but people weren't when he was alive they were attacking him left and right constantly all the

01:00:30 time so all that being said you don't get a ton of backlash for taking the right position

01:00:35 but you do get a ton of backlash for taking the right position first right there is such a thing

01:00:41 as the Overton window moving and and here's the thing the irony the tragic irony is it's the

01:00:48 prophetic lowercase p you know prophet type guys who who sound the alarm first that get all the

01:00:56 backlash but they're the guys who actually move that Overton window so that other guys later on 0.92

01:01:01 can come in and say yeah wokeness is dumb and now like like if you if you talk if you talk about 0.80

01:01:08 woke theology and social justice gospel and critical race theory and intersectionality 0.95

01:01:14 diversity equity and inclusion as those these are things that are contrary to the teachings

01:01:20 of scripture and that these are things that are compromised theologically dangerous you say those

01:01:25 kinds of things now in 2023. And, and you'll have a lot of evangelical support. A lot of

01:01:31 evangelicals are progressive. Yeah. About half of them will disagree with you, but about half of

01:01:35 them will agree with you. But if you say those same things back in 2017, you'd have virtually

01:01:42 no support. People would say that you were harsh, that you're, you're being racist, that your white

01:01:52 privilege is showing well what happened think about that for a second i know some of you guys

01:01:57 you're dispensational pre-mill guys so you you know you're very committed to everything always

01:02:02 getting worse so this is a hard concept for you that the overton window has shifted in a positive

01:02:06 direction that something actually got better right because because you're convinced that

01:02:10 things can only get worse and that's the plan of god but just humor me for a moment on this one

01:02:15 issue over these last, let's say five to eight years, it has gotten better. The Overton window

01:02:23 has shifted, right? Like the wicked side of the room for lack of a better label, the wicked side

01:02:30 of the room has only gotten more hostile and wicked, but, but the righteous side of the room

01:02:34 that's taking the right position and biblical fidelity, that side of the room was like five

01:02:40 people in 2017 and now it's like 50% of the room. A lot of people have been won over to recognizing

01:02:49 that, that wokeology is a bad idea. How did that happen? John Harris, Aidy Robles, Michael O'Fallon,

01:03:03 Votie Bauckham, God bless him forever. That's how that happened. That's how that happened.

01:03:10 And so my point is just to say that I love John Harris.

01:03:14 I disagree with him, however, on one particular issue.

01:03:17 And he just put out a podcast on it today, which is funny because I was already planning

01:03:21 on doing this and I'm not going to change my plans.

01:03:23 But John Harris is not a big fan of Abraham Kuyper.

01:03:26 He doesn't like, you know, John Harris really struggles with the category of common grace.

01:03:32 Now, when I say Kuyperianism, I should say this.

01:03:35 I mean Kuyperianism the same way that I mean Calvinism.

01:03:38 I am a Calvinist.

01:03:40 um, but I don't agree with every jot and tittle of Calvin's institutes, which I have read, by the

01:03:47 way, there's, I think I'm pretty sure there's only like 12 people in the whole world that have

01:03:51 actually read all of Calvin's institutes. And by God's grace, I'm one of them, but, um, it's,

01:03:57 it's, it's a, uh, it's a journey to say the least. It's, it's large. Um, but there are certain

01:04:03 things. I mean, here's one easy one, you know, John Calvin was a Paedo Baptist. I'm, I'm a

01:04:07 credo-baptist right i'm about as close to being a presbyterian as you could possibly get as a

01:04:12 baptist but here i stand still a baptist i can do no other so you know i'm a credo-baptist and so

01:04:18 in that sense that's just one very clear example where i don't adhere to all of calvin's teachings

01:04:23 and yet i'm perfectly content saying that i'm a calvinist and when i say i'm a calvinist

01:04:27 most people know what i mean by that they don't assume that i agree with every tenet of john

01:04:33 calvin's convictions and theological premises but rather they understand that what i mean is

01:04:39 predominantly in regards to john calvin's view of soteriology because the term calvinism has

01:04:45 ultimately come to mean calvin's perspective on salvation god's sovereignty and salvation

01:04:51 well i understand and i'm sympathetic with john harris in terms of abraham kuyper in the sense

01:04:57 that it's not as clear right calvinism meaning john calvin's view on this issue that's clear

01:05:05 and i'll and i'll i'll concede that um that's much clearer when you say calvinism you mean

01:05:11 calvin's view on these things that's much clearer than when you say kyperianism

01:05:15 in part because abraham kuyper you know like most theologians is you know virtually no one is as

01:05:22 known as john calvin but when i say kyperian primarily what i'm pointing towards even more

01:05:31 than common grace and those kinds of things is the idea that christ is king of everything

01:05:36 the quintessential line from abraham kyper that not one square inch of all creation there's not

01:05:44 one square inch of all creation that does not cry out mine that jesus does not cry out mine

01:05:51 meaning it all belongs to jesus you know the illustration that i i use regularly is kind of

01:05:56 like an example from you know the lion king movie you know where simba you know wakes his dad up on

01:06:03 pride rock early in the morning the sun's just barely peeking over the horizon and um and they

01:06:09 go out to the edge of pride rock and and mufasa the king is going to show his son you know all

01:06:15 of his kingdom that he's going to inherit uh when simba becomes king and he's everything the light

01:06:21 touches you know and then simba looks and says well what about that dark shadowy place over there

01:06:26 and mufasa says you must never go there right and many evangelicals today kind of have that

01:06:32 that mindset you know it's like everything the light touches belongs to jesus right this two

01:06:38 kingdom theology you know the sacred uh this belongs to to king jesus um well what about that

01:06:44 dark shadowy but well that's politics you must never go there you know or um that's principled

01:06:50 pluralism that doesn't really belong to jesus jesus actually doesn't want to be king of politics

01:06:56 jesus actually prefers to co-reign with other false gods it actually uh actually really makes

01:07:04 jesus happy right and if you're wondering well principled pluralism doesn't sound like a bad 0.50

01:07:08 idea you can draw a straight line from principled pluralism and classical liberalism to drag queen

01:07:14 story hour. That's what it is. It's, it's sharing the public square with false gods, with other

01:07:20 gods. Pluralism is just a euphemism for polytheism, many gods. So Kuyperianism, when I'm using that

01:07:30 term Kuyperian, I'm looking for a church that's Kuyperian. What I'm saying is this. I'm looking

01:07:35 for a church that believes that Jesus is King and that he's King over everything. Not just that he

01:07:42 will be king when he returns on thursday dispensational pre-millennialism and until

01:07:48 then everything's going to get worse and worse and not that he is king now but only in the 17th

01:07:53 dimension in some ethereal spiritual plane but not in any tangible physical literal sense here

01:08:00 on earth aka all millennialism not all all millennialists but some some but no i mean i

01:08:10 mean i believe that jesus is king and that all authority on earth and in heaven not just kingly

01:08:17 royalty and authority in a spiritual sense in heaven but all authority on earth and in heaven

01:08:24 has been given to him not will be but has been given to him he must reign first corinthians 15

01:08:31 25 until all his enemies have been placed under his feet not he will reign he will reign after

01:08:39 his enemies have been placed under his feet. No, he must reign until all his enemies have been

01:08:44 placed under his feet. The last of his enemies to be defeated is death. And the funny thing is,

01:08:50 you know, going back to dispensational premillennialism for a moment, in a lot of

01:08:54 their minds, I'm sure there are some exceptions. And so I want to be careful with my language,

01:08:58 but in a lot of their minds, they subconsciously behave as though death is not the last enemy of

01:09:05 christ to be defeated but rather the first that that all of christ's enemies are actually going

01:09:10 to only increase in power and dominance as the world spirals into more and more spiritual darkness

01:09:17 and the church whittles down and gets fewer and fewer the little remnant uh remaining but christ

01:09:23 will come right will be uh the church will not be victorious but rather the church is on the ropes

01:09:29 getting wailed on by satan but christ is sustaining not strengthening his church but sustaining his

01:09:37 church until you know all 12 rounds and we'll be saved by the bell and when christ returns what we

01:09:43 know upon christ final physical return that he's going to lay death in its grave but if you think

01:09:51 about that for just a moment practically and logically and theologically it's really in a

01:09:57 sense that's saying that upon christ's return he'll defeat death and and and then all of his

01:10:02 other enemies right because one of the first things that jesus is going to do upon his return

01:10:06 as we see in scripture is raise the debt that both the reprobate and the righteous will come

01:10:12 out of the tombs and be raised to life the the wicked to judgment and the righteous um to to

01:10:20 glory and so jesus is going to come and defeat death in in the the day of resurrection the final

01:10:27 day um and then there'll be judgment for the wicked so in a sense if you're not careful you

01:10:33 you can you could reverse that and say that um not that christ he must reign until all his enemies

01:10:39 are put under his feet the last of his enemies being death first corinthians 15 25 but rather

01:10:44 you can say christ not he must reign meaning he's reigning now as he's subjecting his enemies

01:10:49 progressively one by one under his feet throughout human history in this gospel age through the power

01:10:54 of the church as his body hands and feet in the world and the success of the great commission

01:10:58 that's the mustard seed growing into an all world encompassing tree and the leaven that's working

01:11:04 through the whole batch of dough or the stone cut by no human hand that rolls and crushes the

01:11:09 kingdoms of this world and grows into a mountain that fills the whole earth and we can go on and

01:11:13 on and on with isaiah 65 isaiah 2 daniel chapter 2 um but i digress instead of that he must reign

01:11:23 and is progressively increasing his reign here on earth through the church which is his body i will

01:11:27 not just sustain but build my church and the gates of hell meaning hell is not the offense

01:11:33 but hell gates being defensive hell is on the defense and the church is the battering ram of

01:11:38 christ and hell even on the defense won't be able to withstand prevail the increasing advancing

01:11:45 attack of christ through his church instead of all that right it's a little bit too biblical

01:11:51 let's get some left behind nicholas cage in here you know and uh no you know christ will return

01:11:58 not he must reign but he will reign he's not reigning now but he will reign once he returns

01:12:07 and once he returns he's going to resurrect so death is defeated and then all his other enemies

01:12:13 which actually would say that christ will reign not reigning now but will reign in his first

01:12:19 enemy to be defeated is death which is not first corinthians 15 25 which says he must reign and

01:12:27 that what that's saying implicitly is he is reigning he can do no other but to reign he must

01:12:33 reign and is reigning even now and one by one his enemies throughout the course of history according

01:12:41 to the sovereign divine plan of god are being footstooled underneath his feet and the last

01:12:47 enemy that will be footstooled is death not the first but the last so when i say kyperianism

01:12:54 and obviously i'm kind of skipping ahead with getting to post-millennialism which is one of

01:12:59 the seven i'll get there in a second but when i say kyperianism that's predominantly what i mean

01:13:04 calvinism predominantly i'm talking about the five points of calvin

01:13:09 in regards to soteriology calvin's view of god's sovereignty and salvation when i say

01:13:15 kyperianism predominantly what i'm saying is king jesus not will be king later and and soon

01:13:24 because the whole world's going to end, you know, in the next 15 minutes.

01:13:28 I'm not saying that.

01:13:29 And I'm also not saying king now, but king somewhere else

01:13:33 in the 17th dimension, spiritually, but not tangibly.

01:13:36 No, I'm saying all authority on earth and in heaven.

01:13:39 King now and king here.

01:13:42 I'll say it again.

01:13:43 Jesus is king now and he's king here.

01:13:47 And that Jesus through the church is subjecting progressively

01:13:52 his enemies throughout human history this gospel age one by one as a footstool for his feet

01:13:59 and the last not first but last enemy that christ will subject underneath his kingship

01:14:05 upon his final physical return is death there's not one square inch arts will be redeemed and i

01:14:16 understand harris you know and the guests that he had on his show today and other guys they don't

01:14:20 like the term christianized right they don't like you know that we're christianizing culture

01:14:26 christianizing the world christianizing governments politics society nations

01:14:32 but i think it's a good word i do because i think it's a biblical word because the great commission

01:14:40 as many people as they've tried lord knows they've tried they'll keep trying until the cows

01:14:45 come home but um but they're wrong it is not the proper greek exegetical hermeneutics

01:14:53 the great commission is not that we go and baptize individuals out of nations

01:14:59 that's not the great commission the exact wording and what christ is saying and notice he prefaces

01:15:08 it by saying i have all authority on earth and in heaven so jesus he he leads he prefaces the

01:15:14 statement he's about to make the marching orders he's about to give to his body the church here on

01:15:18 earth he prefaces this commandment the great commission by saying i have all authority so

01:15:24 listen up and i don't just have authority in the 17th dimension but here on earth every square inch

01:15:31 and this is what you need to do i have all authority and this is what i'm commanding you

01:15:36 You are to go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name, into the name

01:15:45 of the triune God, and not just preaching the gospel and making converts and doing the

01:15:51 work of an evangelist, but also, here's your general equity theonomy, teaching them to

01:15:57 obey all my commands, my law, gospel and law, law and gospel, both in the Great Commission.

01:16:04 go and make disciples of nations we don't just make disciples of individuals individuals are

01:16:13 the only people who will be saved so when we speak of saving grace yes and amen a thousand times it

01:16:20 is true that saving grace only applies to individuals god saves in terms of eternal

01:16:27 salvation penal substitutionary atonement jesus died for individuals he died for a collective

01:16:34 covenantal corporate bride but it is made up of individuals from among out of every tribe tongue

01:16:40 and nation but in terms of discipling the nations this doesn't just mean that we make disciples of

01:16:46 individual people out of every nation but that the nations themselves will be discipled the nations

01:16:52 are christ's inheritance the nations as the scriptures say will flock to mount zion just like

01:16:59 they did it'll be an even greater sense and we'll see it progressively happen throughout human

01:17:03 history but we saw a glimpse a prophetic glimpse of this even under the old covenant when Solomon

01:17:09 was king in Israel the son of David that David made war and God gave him great victory but then

01:17:16 Solomon came into power and he had great wisdom he built the temple and through the peace that

01:17:23 had been achieved by his father David and his conquest and war as a great hero a great a great

01:17:30 champion solomon now with wisdom and times of peace he leads the nation into immense prosperity

01:17:38 unparalleled prosperity and all the other nations it's not just that israel sees this and is in awe

01:17:45 of of of the wisdom of solomon which is ultimately god's wisdom but all the other nations see this

01:17:53 as well and the nations connect the dots they don't just say that solomon's wise the other

01:17:58 nations recognize the scripture says this they recognize that the prosperity and blessing of

01:18:03 Israel comes from the fact that they have superior laws that they have the law of the one true God

01:18:10 Yahweh to where even kings and queens the queen of Sheba comes and and she says to Solomon I've 0.84

01:18:16 been told of all your splendor and all these things of your and behold not even the half of

01:18:21 it was told to me and she cites specifically she says even your servants are happy right notice

01:18:27 that's one of the signs of a kingdom or a nation or a society culture when it's under the blessing

01:18:34 of God is one that blessing comes from obedience to the law of God wisdom and blessing are always

01:18:40 tethered together and wisdom is not just the wisdom of man but the revealed wisdom of God

01:18:46 in his law word and when a nation receives the wisdom of God his law and obeys it and has

01:18:52 righteous wise rulers who love like david they don't just acknowledge the moral rightness of

01:18:59 god's law but they delight in the goodness of god's law the practical and tangible benefits

01:19:05 of obedience to god's law that we live in the father's world and that the father has constructed

01:19:11 the world and built into the very fabric of the world that he has made a rule book for life and

01:19:16 when we follow the rules things go better and and when when a person gets that but not just a person

01:19:22 a society and a nation and rulers get that even other nations will flock and see that kind of

01:19:30 blessing and prosperity and even they even despite the fall of sin back to presuppositionalism

01:19:36 because the vestige of the image of god remains even that is a testimony they can recognize that's

01:19:41 a testimony of the goodness of god's law they'll be able to draw the correlation and connect the

01:19:47 dots, that the prosperity and blessing of a nation comes from the moral superiority of their laws,

01:19:55 that they have equal weights and measures, right? There was a direct correlation in the minds of

01:20:00 other nations for a long time, and we're eroding those foundations, sadly, but for a long time with

01:20:06 the West and particularly America, you think of the prosperity of America, other nations,

01:20:12 they want to be an American citizen. They want to come here if they can,

01:20:15 And they want to come to Lady Liberty, but they also recognize the correlation between Lady Liberty and Lady Justice, who is blindfolded, no partiality, who has scales that are even in her hand, equal weights and measures, and who has a sword, meaning capital punishment, just punishment, proportional justice, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, life for life,

01:20:45 Swift, fair, proportional justice.

01:20:48 So it's unbiased, no partiality.

01:20:51 It's do not be partial to the rich, but also not partial to the poor.

01:20:56 That's what Deuteronomy says.

01:20:57 All of this comes from God's law word.

01:21:00 These symbols that we have still in our culture today.

01:21:03 No partiality, blindfold.

01:21:06 Swift, proportional justice, sword.

01:21:09 Equal weights and measures.

01:21:11 Just scales.

01:21:12 unequal weights and measures the lord abhors the bible says he detests that equal weights and

01:21:20 measures meaning not not equity equal outcome but equal opportunity and equality of dignity

01:21:27 and sanctity under the law legal equality and there's a straight line from lady justice

01:21:36 to lady liberty and there's a straight line from lady liberty to prosperity and it's not just

01:21:44 something that americans benefited from and appreciated back in the good old days but it's

01:21:52 something that all the other nations could recognize just like they did with solomon just

01:21:57 like they did with solomon happy are your servants so when when queens the queen of

01:22:01 sheba says happy are your servants what she's saying is this she says your nation is good

01:22:06 and she draws the the correlation your law is good your god is good and and she doesn't say

01:22:12 your your nation is good because uh you're a socialist nation and there's equal outcome

01:22:18 equity everybody has the same thing no she says your servants meaning well first that implies

01:22:24 you you still have servants meaning your nation still has hierarchy there are still servants

01:22:31 and then there are those who are not servants there are kings and there are subjects so your

01:22:38 nation still has hierarchy but the sign of blessing on a nation isn't egalitarianism

01:22:43 it's not socialism it's not communism the sign of blessing on a nation isn't the doing away

01:22:50 of patriarchy and the doing away of hierarchy the sign of blessing of a nation is that even

01:22:56 the lowest on that hierarchy have more than enough see that's why marxism historically didn't work

01:23:04 in america are you aware of that marxism didn't work because because marx thought that you know

01:23:10 that the fuel for for this peasant revolt with the bourgeoisie that was going to you know push

01:23:16 back on all the capitalists was ultimately that the workers were being treated unfairly

01:23:22 but that never worked in, in the West and especially in America. You know why? Because

01:23:28 all the workers, yeah, there were CEOs that made 20 times what workers made a hundred times what

01:23:34 workers made, but the average blue collar worker in the 1950s and sixties and those, um, still had

01:23:41 enough money to own a home, have a car, send their kids to school and take two weeks of vacation and

01:23:48 go travel once a year. So they just weren't upset about that much. They weren't mad enough

01:23:56 to revolt because the servants were happy, because the kingdom was prosperous, because

01:24:02 they were just, and they followed, not perfectly. I'm not saying America didn't have problems,

01:24:09 but in general, the constitution of the United States of America was based in our founding

01:24:15 documents outside of the constitution were based in biblical law, based in biblical law.

01:24:21 That is the Christianizing of a nation. That does not mean, that's not saving grace. That doesn't

01:24:27 mean that everyone in America in the 1950s was regenerate, right? Because the 1950s gave us the

01:24:34 sixties and the sixties ruined the last, you know, the next six decades to where we are today,

01:24:41 you know so you know it it wasn't perfect so that's not to say that um that that it was

01:24:47 christianizing in the sense that um in the sense of genuine evangelism and saving grace and that

01:24:55 everyone was born again and regenerate but it is to say that um that as a whole as a society

01:25:02 and as a nation and in terms of our laws and in the body politic of the united states it was

01:25:09 steeped in christian thought in christian principles and in biblical law it was

01:25:17 and so all that being said um abraham kuyper i don't agree with everything he says and he

01:25:24 certainly gets flack for his common grace concept which i don't really have a huge problem with as

01:25:29 long as you define common grace and and draw a very clear distinction from common grace and

01:25:35 saving grace but in all that there is a sense in which I think Kuyper was right his sphere

01:25:40 sovereignty concept is right on the money Harris and pretty much everybody uses that you know the

01:25:47 church and the state and the home and and the fact that these spheres it's not not the state

01:25:54 it's over the church and the church is over the home but like a Venn diagram and there are moments

01:25:58 of overlap where there's a vested interest in two or three spheres simultaneously and you have to

01:26:03 figure out that from from the word of god and who gets jurisdiction so the sphere sovereignty

01:26:08 concept of kuiper but the biggest thing i think that's that's all good the sphere sovereignty but

01:26:12 the biggest thing the quintessential element is every square inch that christ is king not just

01:26:18 spiritual king and not king later so it's not earthly king later dispensational premillennialism

01:26:27 and it's not spiritual king now or millennialism but but spiritual and earthly king now post

01:26:35 millennialism over everything there is no dark shadowy place like politics that remains devoted

01:26:42 to principled pluralism and polytheism and neutral no nothing is neutral everything is presuppositional

01:26:51 everything has a bias. Everything has an allegiance and, and part of the job of the

01:26:56 church is first and foremost, it is word and sacrament on the Lord's day, rightly administering

01:27:02 the word of God and the sacraments and practicing as needed biblical church discipline and the

01:27:09 Lord's day gathering of the saints. That's first and foremost. Beyond that though, it's the great

01:27:13 commission, which includes personal evangelism and saving grace, hearts being converted by the

01:27:18 power of the gospel but it also does include i believe a corporate discipling covenantal discipling

01:27:25 of nations baptizing discipling christianizing nations not that each and every individual will

01:27:34 be saved regenerate eternally saved but that there will be a general christian sentiment

01:27:41 not just over fred or tom who live next door but over societies cultures over the arts over

01:27:53 medicine over politics over america over brazil over china and one by one i believe by god's

01:28:00 grace these things will happen so that's all of christ for all of life in a nutshell you could

01:28:05 just say all of christ for all of life i want a church that's kyperian i don't want a church when

01:28:10 I'm looking for churches that I don't want a church that is, um, has a big emphasis on

01:28:15 two kingdom theology, especially not a radical two kingdom church, like a Westminster Escondido,

01:28:21 Michael Horton, or Van Druden kind of, you know, radical two kingdom view.

01:28:27 But even, even a church that wouldn't be within the radical two kingdom, you know, category,

01:28:33 but still emphasizes two kingdom theology, um, and the way that it was espoused by Luther,

01:28:39 I disagree with Luther, praise God for Luther and his rediscovery of the gospel.

01:28:44 But I think Luther had, had some bad two kingdom theology.

01:28:48 Augustine, I think was better, right?

01:28:50 City of God, city of man.

01:28:51 I like that better than Luther really, in many ways, the two kingdom church and state.

01:28:56 But even Augustine, I think there are some problems there with his two kingdom theology.

01:29:00 And so all that being said, I wanted all of Christ for all of life church, a church,

01:29:06 not not a um not a social justice church and that for the record in john's defense that's that's

01:29:12 that's his thing is john was pushing back early on god bless him before i was and he deserves

01:29:19 honor for this he was pushing back on the social justice gospel and i think you know he's he was

01:29:25 looking at guys like tim keller and and rightly criticizing tim keller and looking at keller's

01:29:31 Kuyperianism because Keller is Kuyperian but he was looking at that and I think I think not just

01:29:36 John because I'm not picking on John I love John but I think a lot of guys associate some of Keller's

01:29:43 compromises with Kuyper whereas I would say and I've said this before in a previous episode

01:29:48 the problem with Tim Keller is not that he's Kuyperian the problem with Tim Keller is that

01:29:53 he's a Marxist the problem with Keller is not Kuyper it's Marx and I think you know you can

01:29:59 throw out the Kuiper baby with the Marxist bathwater. And I don't want to make that mistake. 0.71

01:30:05 And again, just like Calvinism, I don't prescribe to every single thing that Calvin wrote in his

01:30:10 institutes, but I am a Calvinist. And you know what I mean when I say that. Likewise, I am a

01:30:16 Kuiperian, all of Christ for all of life, every square inch, right? Three sovereign spheres,

01:30:22 but we want to Christianize all of them. We want all of human life and society and culture to be 0.62

01:30:28 drenched in Christian principles and a Christian ethic in a Christian worldview. We want to restore

01:30:36 Christendom. That's really what it is. Kyperianism, I think, is Christendom. I believe in Christendom.

01:30:43 We've had a thousand from King Alfred all the way until now. We've had 500 years for sure,

01:30:48 the last 500, but really you could say a thousand years of Christendom in the West

01:30:52 and that that has been a blessing to the whole world. And that Christendom is falling, sadly.

01:30:58 secular humanism has done a number but i believe one by one christ enemies are being subjected

01:31:06 footstooled under his feet secular humanism is no exception it will fall i believe in many ways 0.93

01:31:11 it's on its last leg i think it's being shown for for how foolish it actually is secular humanism 0.99

01:31:17 is like a parasite it it only looks viable as long as it has a living host and the host was 0.99

01:31:24 chrysidom but as that host is being deconstructed by secular humanism the parasite is killing the 1.00

01:31:32 host and as it kills the host it kills itself i'll say that again secular humanism is a parasite 0.99

01:31:38 the host is chrysidom this parasite of secular humanism is killing the host chrysidom and as 0.96

01:31:45 it kills the host it's killing itself and it's proving to not be viable and i believe that by

01:31:50 God's grace, that there will be, um, a reformation and a return to Christendom, to Christianity.

01:31:56 And, uh, it'll be first and foremost, it'll be revival and individual hearts because of

01:32:02 the preaching of the gospel being converted to new, new life.

01:32:06 But out of that, I think it will also be because you'll have Christians in the arts.

01:32:10 Not every Christian is going to be a pastor.

01:32:13 Some of those Christians are going to be artists. 1.00

01:32:15 They're going to be scientists. 1.00

01:32:16 They're going to be doctors.

01:32:17 They're going to be politicians.

01:32:18 and if they live out their christian faith they're not pietists just just living out the christian

01:32:26 faith in you know jesus just being the the private lord of their private heart but rather jesus as

01:32:33 public lord and if they're living out a public faith and and some of them are politicians and

01:32:39 some of them are artists and some of them are doctors then you're going to start to see these 0.92

01:32:43 all these different realms of society shaped once again, as they once were shaped by Christian

01:32:49 ethic, Christianized, that's Christodom.

01:32:54 And that's a good thing. 1.00

01:32:55 And I think that's a Kuyperian thing.

01:32:57 So find a church that's Kuyperian.

01:32:59 Okay. 1.00

01:33:00 That's number five.

01:33:01 Number six, general equity theonomy.

01:33:04 That is the historic reform confessional position.

01:33:07 It's right there in the confession under the law of God and its treatment of how the

01:33:12 christians should apply the civil laws of god the general equity so it's a confessional position

01:33:18 it's a biblical position and i've already addressed it when i talked about bonson and

01:33:23 what general equity theonomy is and all these kinds of things you want a church what i'm getting

01:33:28 at so i'll do this one briefly what i'm getting at is you you do not want i'll say it like this

01:33:33 you do not want to find a gospel-centered church and honestly that breaks my heart that i have to

01:33:39 say that but but i have to say that i need to be that frank and that clear you do not want to find

01:33:45 a gospel-centered church now see in in actuality you you do want a gospel-centered church

01:33:53 but you don't and the reason why you do but you don't is because if you find a church that says

01:34:00 it's gospel-centered you bear probably about a 95 percent chance that what they mean by gospel

01:34:07 centered is actually not gospel centered but gospel myoptic gospel truncated gospel exclusive

01:34:15 and you don't want that sadly most churches that purport themselves as being gospel centered today

01:34:21 are not gospel centered because here's the thing about that little word centered the word centered

01:34:26 implies that there's something around the center that it's not the only thing if you say you know

01:34:32 i love oreos and uh and you know oreos have a a creamy center well it's not just a bowl of white

01:34:39 cream what makes it an oreo is it has white cream in the center but there's also something around

01:34:46 the center namely the the chocolate crunchy cookie right and and so likewise true gospel

01:34:54 centrality is wonderful if we're saying the gospel is the center but what happened in the woke church

01:35:00 And guys like Tim Keller is a perfect example.

01:35:02 Guys like Russell Moore is they said, well, we want to be gospel centered.

01:35:06 And this is how they did it.

01:35:07 They spoke out of both sides of their mouth.

01:35:10 Whenever, whenever there was a conservative issue, like, well, maybe we should police

01:35:14 our borders or maybe there should be equal weights and measures and equal penalties for

01:35:19 abortion and that, that the mother who murders her child in her womb is actually not a victim,

01:35:24 but she's actually committing murder and there needs to be a penalty, right?

01:35:27 Like you talk about something like that, you know, um, or you say it was student loan

01:35:31 forgiveness isn't actually forgiveness in terms of the Bible's definition of forgiveness.

01:35:35 It's actually theft because student loan forgiveness comes from the government, but

01:35:39 the government doesn't have money.

01:35:40 The government just takes your money.

01:35:42 So people who actually paid off their student loans or didn't even go to college are now

01:35:46 having to pay by a tax hike from the government theft, civil theft, pay for somebody else's

01:35:52 loan for, so that's not forgiveness.

01:35:55 That's theft, right?

01:35:56 So every conservative political issue, cultural issue for the last 15 years in the realm of

01:36:01 Tim Keller types and Russell Moore types, um, everything like that, what would they

01:36:05 do?

01:36:06 They'd say, well, we're gospel.

01:36:07 Let's not get into that.

01:36:08 Let's stick to the main and the plain gospel center, but then every left issue, right?

01:36:13 Cause they did, they did both.

01:36:14 It was a both and kind of thing.

01:36:16 Speaking out of both sides of their mouth, every left leaning issue, there's a, this

01:36:21 is a gospel issue.

01:36:22 Racial justice is a gospel issue.

01:36:24 racial reconciliation is a gospel issue um you know retribution um uh reparations

01:36:32 you know we got to talk about this right so so all the conservative things like we're not going

01:36:39 to get distracted by politics we're gospel center and then and then all the other politics but just

01:36:47 on the left it's like you're not going to get distracted by that either no no no no no we have

01:36:52 to do this because this is the gospel and so guys like john harris looked at that and it's like

01:36:57 they're they're conflating social justice with the gospel the social justice gospel that's not

01:37:04 the gospel and boom guys like bode bacham and john harris and michael fallon and you know

01:37:10 they all did very faithful good work and coming out against that and saying this is heresy

01:37:14 this is wrong. This is wrong. Whereas I just would be a little bit more technical and say,

01:37:22 yeah, that was wrong. Absolutely. The social justice gospel is a false gospel. It's a heresy.

01:37:28 But the gospel should bear fruit. And the biggest problem was not the whole Kuyper and applying,

01:37:35 you know, the teachings of scripture to all of life. The biggest problem again was Marx.

01:37:38 um see kyperianism is all of christ for all of life uh tim keller was all of marx for all of

01:37:45 life so the all of life part is not the problem it's the all of christ part because all these

01:37:53 leftist neo-marxist socialist feminist issues critical race theory issues

01:38:02 um the problem was not saying yeah christians should be involved in social and political and

01:38:08 issues we should we should the problem is that um the involvement that they wanted was was not

01:38:15 applying the scripture to these issues it was throwing the scripture away and applying freud

01:38:22 and and engel and hegel and marx to these issues that's that's what we should object to so the all

01:38:32 of life piece is there's nothing wrong with that the all of life piece that only works if you have

01:38:38 the all of christ piece and the way that you ensure you have all of christ is by remaining

01:38:44 conservative theologically and having fidelity to the scripture so all that means my point is

01:38:52 um that that this you know uh what was i saying i'm sorry um my my point is just to say that

01:39:01 that you know with all this stuff you know kyperian is is number five um i want all of christ for all

01:39:06 life church jesus is king not just spiritually but tangibly and not just then but now and then

01:39:13 the general equity theonomy um i i want to see a church that has law and gospel that's what it was

01:39:20 gospel-centered gospel-centered so don't go to a church that says they're gospel-centered because

01:39:25 even though technically it's good to be gospel-centered because the gospel should be the

01:39:29 center so long as it's not only the gospel most churches that say they're gospel-centered they're

01:39:34 not gospel center the gospel of my optic it's gospel exclusive it's only the gospel

01:39:38 the beauty of true gospel centrality is that i would say that that the primary thing that that

01:39:46 ultimately flanks the gospel going back to my random oreo analogy is you got the creamy center

01:39:52 great but then you got two cookies chocolate cookies on either side well the the two things

01:39:58 on on either side is the law right the law of god the three uses of the law within the reformed view

01:40:03 of the law? The first use of the law is that it functions as a mirror, right? It reveals to us

01:40:08 the holiness of God and by way of consequence, it reveals to us our sinfulness and therefore it

01:40:13 drives us to Christ because it reveals our need for a savior, right? Spurgeon said a man cannot

01:40:18 appreciate the beauty of Christ unless he first come to see the necessity for Christ. So no man

01:40:23 will be saved by works as done unto the law, the apostle Paul said. The law isn't saving, but the

01:40:28 law does reveal, uh, to us our need for saving. So the first use of the law. And so in, in my

01:40:34 preaching, I, in the true sense, gospel center, that I have the first use of the law of God.

01:40:40 Uh, you're condemned. You need Christ. And then the gospel, right? There's your, your cream filling.

01:40:47 And then I go back to the law, but now not the first use, but the third use of the law,

01:40:52 which is that it's not just a mirror that reveals our need for Christ, but it's also a lamp into

01:40:56 our feet and a light unto our path. So it shows us now how to live, not the way to salvation,

01:41:02 Christ is the way, the truth and the life. Grace through faith is the way, the only way to

01:41:08 salvation. So the law doesn't give us the path to salvation, but it does give us the path from

01:41:13 salvation. It shows us not how to merit the favor of God, but the law of God is a lamp unto our

01:41:19 feet and a light unto our path, showing us how to live a life in response to the free favor we've

01:41:26 already received in the gospel so we preach the law and its first use as a mirror gospel christ

01:41:33 as substitute fulfillment but then law again how then shall we now live right the the schaefer kind

01:41:41 of thing um how are we going to live not not to earn salvation but as a response of gratitude for

01:41:47 the free salvation we already have by grace alone through faith alone in christ alone first use of

01:41:52 the law gospel third use of the law there's your two cookies law law first use third use in the

01:41:59 middle gospel that's gospel centrality i'll take that but if you find a church that says we're

01:42:04 gospel centered they probably don't mean that they probably don't mean that what they probably mean

01:42:10 is we're antinomian and we hate the law of god we're antinomian and we hate the law of god so

01:42:16 that general equity piece i've already talked about it uh with bonson and fleshed out a little

01:42:21 bit more technically and theologically what it means, but suffice it to say, in the simplest

01:42:25 terms, you want a church that loves the gospel and also loves the law. You want a church that

01:42:32 preaches both law and gospel. And then lastly, post-millennialism. You want a church that has

01:42:40 a hopeful eschatology because it absolutely impacts the way that you live your life.

01:42:46 Now you don't want, now here's the thing, you can find a post-mill church that actually,

01:42:50 The impact that their eschatology, sadly, has on their practical daily living is actually

01:42:57 not positive, but negative, right?

01:43:00 There is this sentiment that you'll find from time to time among postmill types of, you

01:43:07 know, that hashtag, you know, that postmill, but they're not doing anything.

01:43:14 They're not running for city council.

01:43:18 They're not starting a business.

01:43:20 They're not trying to redeem the arts.

01:43:24 They're not even married.

01:43:26 They don't have children.

01:43:29 And so when they say hashtag that post mill,

01:43:32 what they mean is Jesus is going to fix it all.

01:43:36 And what they're forgetting is that Jesus is going to fix it.

01:43:39 Jesus is progressively winning.

01:43:42 He is progressively playing out his victory in real human history,

01:43:48 but he's doing it through his church.

01:43:50 he is um and so there's a way of being having an optimistic eschatology that actually

01:43:58 ironically produces pietism and apathy apathy and so when i say you want a post-millennial church

01:44:06 i mean a post-millennial church but a church that is optimistic in their eschatology but also

01:44:10 painfully practical in in seeking to redeem um all of society back to the kaiparian piece

01:44:18 all of christ for all of life and that's why i i so admire doug wilson and you know all the guys

01:44:24 at moscow and christ christ church there is that um they're not just you know hashtagging that

01:44:31 post mill uh but they're redeeming a town they really are i mean half the town like adamantly

01:44:38 hates them to be fair but um but it's not just a bunch of christians in a big church they don't

01:44:43 just have a big church. Doug didn't just spend 40 years building a big church. He built a school

01:44:50 and a college and a publishing house and multiple other people raised up to start businesses and

01:45:00 restaurants and buy land and build houses. And it's, it's all of life. So it's hashtag

01:45:08 that post mill jesus is going to win and we're going to get to work and we're going to get to

01:45:14 work so if you're just now tuning in if you're looking for a local church seven doctrines that

01:45:20 i think are important to look for confessionally reformed covenant theology

01:45:26 um biblical patriarchy presuppositionalism kyperianism general equity theonomy

01:45:37 and post-millennialism again i know some of you guys disagree with some of my secondary doctrines

01:45:43 not all this is primary not all this is you know um required for christian orthodoxy right such as

01:45:50 post-millennialism you can be all male and be orthodox you can be historic pre-male and be

01:45:55 orthodox and you can be dispensate. No, you can't actually. Um, but you can be those other three.

01:46:00 I will not include dispensational pre-millennialism, but you can be historic pre-mill.

01:46:04 You can be R-mill and you can be post-mill and be within the realm of orthodoxy.

01:46:08 All right. So you can differ on these things within reason. You can not be a big fan of

01:46:13 Abraham Kuyper. I think you're wrong, but you can reject Kuyperianism. Um, and, and really,

01:46:21 I think that's a semantic thing though. I really do. I think the difference between me and

01:46:25 Harris again, I'll probably have him on the show and just talk to him about it. Cause I know we

01:46:28 agree. I think he just, he's like, don't, don't say common grace, Joel, you know, um, don't say

01:46:34 Christianize the nation say this, uh, you know, we, I think a lot of it's just language and we're

01:46:39 talking past each other. Uh, so I think that's more semantics, but my point is you can not be 0.91

01:46:44 and be faithful within theological faithfulness, orthodoxy. Um, so not all these, I'm not saying

01:46:53 these seven doctrines are um are prerequisites for for christian orthodoxy so please hear that

01:47:01 disclaimer here at the end i said it up front i'm saying it again these are not prerequisites

01:47:06 theological prerequisites to be within the banner of christian orthodoxy but you tuned in so i'm

01:47:13 assuming you wanted to hear my thoughts my thoughts are my counsel pastoral counsel to you is if you're

01:47:20 looking for a church and you want it to have a spine you want the preacher to have a little spice

01:47:26 in his sermons and some masculine courage and you want that church to be involved and and not

01:47:34 pietist right not not progressives compromising theologically culturally politically not progressives

01:47:43 but also not pietist and just kind of we do church and that's it and we're not really involved

01:47:49 If you want a church that's not progressives and also not pietists, but actually really faithful and theologically rich, but also painfully practical in daily Christian living, then I think what you're looking for is a church that's confessionally reformed, adheres to covenant theology, biblical patriarchy, presuppositionalism, Kuyperianism, general equity theonomy.

01:48:19 and post-millennialism. I think that if you find a church like that, I think you will do well.

01:48:26 I think that you will be grateful. Can I be frank with you for just a second,

01:48:30 right here at the end? Look, some of you guys, you're financially supporting this ministry,

01:48:35 and from the bottom of my heart, I say thank you. I cannot thank you enough. However, some of you,

01:48:42 you just you can't afford it. In fact, some of you shouldn't afford it. Let's be honest. I mean,

01:48:49 we're living in Joe Biden's ridiculous economy. Our nation and our totalitarian political elites 0.98

01:48:57 lost their minds over the last three years due to COVID. We have written checks that we simply

01:49:05 cannot cash. It doesn't matter if people change the definition of a recession. We are living in

01:49:11 a recession right now, regardless. Some of you are struggling to afford a carton of eggs at the

01:49:18 grocery store. You cannot support financially this ministry at this time, nor should you,

01:49:25 but you could still help us tremendously. I am asking you, please, if you're willing to do so,

01:49:32 take one minute of your time. Leave us a five-star review on your favorite podcast platform,

01:49:38 iTunes, Spotify, whatever that might be. This is the way the system works. We want to be innocent

01:49:45 as doves but shrewd as vipers. We need to be strategic. You leave us a five-star review

01:49:51 and our podcast shows up for more people. And the Word of God and courageous theology

01:49:58 applied in practical ways to every realm of life gets out there. Help us get it out there.

01:50:05 Thanks for tuning in.

01:50:08 Thank you.

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The NXR Podcast - March 16, 2023

BONUS EPISODE - Consider These 7 Doctrines When Looking For A Church ｜ Live Pastor Joel Webbon

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