The NXR Podcast - BONUS EPISODE - The Postmillennial View Of The Rapture ｜ Live with Pastor Joel

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00:00:27.500 hi welcome back to another episode of our monday live show i am pastor joel webin with right

00:00:33.620 response ministries and we do this every monday usually at 2 p.m central we're a little bit early

00:00:38.700 today um just because of scheduling conflicts but uh what i want to discuss is the post-millennial

00:00:44.640 view of the rapture um i've had some people ask you know well uh do post-millennials even believe

00:00:51.260 in a rapture what is their view of the rapture you know i was thinking uh just last uh night

00:00:56.300 in our Sunday evening service at Covenant Bible Church

00:00:59.040 where I pastor in Central Texas.

00:01:01.480 We were singing, wow, what was the song?

00:01:06.240 Blessed Assurance.

00:01:07.820 Blessed Assurance, Jesus is mine.

00:01:11.460 Oh, what a foretaste.

00:01:13.180 And so we were singing that

00:01:14.360 and there was one particular verse in the song

00:01:16.760 that says visions of rapture.

00:01:19.880 I think it's visions of rapture burst into sight.

00:01:22.460 And I was thinking, you know,

00:01:23.660 I probably need to explain this even to my congregation

00:01:26.020 sometime soon because, you know, we're singing this and everyone, you know, in the congregation

00:01:30.380 knows that I'm post-millennial and most of the members of the church are also in their eschatology

00:01:35.960 post-millennial. And here we are singing this song that has the word rapture in it, you know,

00:01:40.480 and they're probably, you know, like, can a post-millennial sing this song? Which I believe

00:01:45.080 they can because it's not specific. It doesn't say a secret rapture. It doesn't say a rapture

00:01:50.540 that's coming you know um next thursday and you know so um i think it's perfectly conducive with

00:01:56.080 the post-millennial eschatology that particular song blessed assurance uh and the way that they

00:02:01.540 use the word rapture but anyways it just got me thinking in my local setting pastorally but then

00:02:05.480 also publicly i've had people ask the same kind of question so i thought you know what this will

00:02:09.860 probably be a brief video but i just want to explain um in general what what is the post-millennial

00:02:15.800 view of the rapture and it's not that post-millennials don't believe there is any

00:02:19.740 kind of rapture we do believe in a rapture that might surprise you you probably have been many

00:02:24.820 of you under the impression that post-millennials don't believe there is a rapture at all but we

00:02:29.840 technically to be fair we do believe in a rapture it's not a secret rapture but we do believe in a

00:02:35.140 rapture and i'm going to show you the way we view from the scripture what that rapture looks like

00:02:40.560 but real quick before i do let me make a brief announcement and also offer a brief word for one

00:02:47.320 of our sponsors. So the announcement is this. We've got our March conference, March 1st, 2nd,

00:02:51.880 and 3rd. That's a Friday, Saturday, and Sunday of next year, 2024. It's coming up. We've got

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00:03:02.440 speaking at this conference. The title is Blueprints for Christendom 2.0. We're going to

00:03:07.940 be talking about seven particular doctrines that we think are vital when it comes to stewarding

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00:03:33.000 patriarchy, presuppositionalism, Kuyperianism, this all of Christ for all of life mentality,

00:03:39.640 general equity theonomy and post-millennial eschatology and so this conference is going

00:03:45.000 to cover all seven of those doctrines we're also going to have a few live panels one where we talk

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00:03:54.940 from It's Good to Be a Man and then we'll also do a live panel the second day of the conference

00:04:00.680 the first one in biblical patriarchy will be on Friday the second day Saturday March 2nd we'll

00:04:05.400 do a panel on all things obscure and unhinged with Brian Sauve and also Ben Garrett from

00:04:13.340 Haunted Cosmos podcast. They're going to do a panel with us. So we're really excited about

00:04:17.740 the conference. It'll also hold over to March 3rd, that Lord's Day. And one of our speakers

00:04:22.920 will stay over and preach the sermon. And I'll lead everybody through the liturgy for that Lord's

00:04:27.920 Day worship. So it's going to be a great time. If you haven't already registered, I encourage you

00:04:31.760 to do so. Our early bird rate is running out. It's going to run out, um, at the end of August,

00:04:37.000 August 31st is going to be the very last day, uh, for our early bird pricing. So if you haven't

00:04:42.080 registered already, uh, you need to do so, um, because the early bird pricing is running out,

00:04:46.500 but also I've got a sneaking suspicion. Our theonomy and post-mail conference that we held

00:04:51.280 a couple of months ago, uh, that sold out six months in advance. And I think this one might

00:04:56.060 sell out even faster. The conference is in March and we really, I, I'm not just trying to, you

00:05:01.320 don't use hyperbole to get you to buy the ticket right now today. I really think that we're going

00:05:05.840 to sell out at least six months in advance, just like our last conference. So we've already done

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00:05:13.940 the early bird pricing, but you also just want to get a seat. So go to rightresponseconference.com,

00:05:18.600 not Right Response Ministries, but in this case, rightresponseconference.com to register today.

00:05:25.020 All right, quick word from our sponsor. We'll move on.

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00:07:09.240 to order your coffee today. All right, so let's go ahead and look at some scripture. This is 1

00:07:14.960 Thessalonians chapter 4. If you're joining us just now with a live stream, we're talking about

00:07:20.320 a post-millennial view of the rapture. The post-millennials do believe that there is a

00:07:25.460 rapture. We deny that there is a secret rapture, but we do believe in a rapture of sorts. And so

00:07:32.180 I want to go ahead and explain the post-millennial view from the scripture of what that rapture

00:07:36.720 looks like. So this is 1 Thessalonians chapter 4, starting in verse 13. This is where the apostle

00:07:41.720 Paul is, he's talking about the coming of the Lord and what happens to those who were Christians who

00:07:46.680 are in the Lord through faith, but who have fallen asleep. That is those who have died. What about 0.99

00:07:51.920 loved ones who are Christians who have died? He's offering a sense of consolation and comfort

00:07:57.300 to his hearer saying, those who died in the Lord are not utterly and finally lost. Okay. Verse 13,

00:08:05.640 1 Thessalonians 4, beginning in verse 13. But we do not want you to be uninformed brothers about

00:08:12.520 those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do, who have no hope. For since we believe

00:08:19.880 that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have

00:08:26.420 fallen asleep. For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left

00:08:34.780 until the coming of the Lord

00:08:37.440 will not precede those who have fallen asleep.

00:08:42.100 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven

00:08:45.160 with a cry of command,

00:08:47.540 with the voice of an archangel,

00:08:50.360 and with the sound of the trumpet of God,

00:08:52.880 as the dead in Christ will rise first.

00:08:56.740 Then we who are alive, who are left,

00:09:00.200 will be caught up together with them

00:09:02.800 in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord. Therefore,

00:09:11.920 encourage one another with these words. That's the end of the chapter. So that's first Thessalonians

00:09:17.920 chapter four, verses 13 through 18. Okay. A couple of things to point out here. Number one,

00:09:24.100 it's interesting that it says that we will be caught up, those who are alive. So first,

00:09:30.340 the dead in christ that they'll be resurrected brought out of the tombs and that they will be

00:09:35.280 caught up to meet the lord then secondly so first the dead in christ then those of us who are still

00:09:42.640 alive at his coming so whenever the lord comes whatever generation that's in everyone who has

00:09:48.380 been a christian but already dead they will first be resurrected that'll be the first sequence of

00:09:53.980 events but then secondly those who are currently still alive on the planet who are also in the

00:09:59.520 lord christians um after the dead in christ are raised then those who are still alive in christ

00:10:06.380 will be caught up okay now the word uh that's significant for our discussion today is that

00:10:12.900 phrase two words caught up that's the rapture um caught up uh and and that kind of concept and

00:10:23.180 wording it's it's interesting because there's a very similar phrasing and certainly the same

00:10:28.480 concept and principle when Jesus tells the parable of the 10 virgins, right? So if you're

00:10:34.520 not familiar with that parable, it's the parable where Jesus says, you know, there are 10 virgins

00:10:38.860 and five of them were wise and five of them were foolish. And what they were doing is they each had

00:10:45.260 a lamp and they were waiting for the bridegroom. There was a wedding that was going to take place

00:10:51.080 and they were going to be honored guests at this wedding and they didn't want to miss it.

00:10:54.540 So they're waiting. They don't know exactly when, what the hour is that the bridegroom will arrive,

00:10:59.940 but they know that he's coming and they want to be ready so that they're not shut out of the chapel

00:11:05.160 hall, that they're not shut out of the wedding. They want to be present there. Now the five

00:11:11.520 foolish virgins, what happens is they're waiting all day, but now it's coming into the night and 1.00

00:11:16.320 the five foolish virgins, they didn't bring extra oil to keep their lamp lit so that they could see 1.00

00:11:23.140 in the darkness now that it's night. And so they've run out of oil. And so what they do is they go to 0.99

00:11:28.540 the five wise virgins who were prepared and they say, give us some of your oil. And the five wise

00:11:34.520 virgins, they say, no, I'm sorry. It's not malicious on the five wise virgins part, but they say, no,

00:11:40.860 if we give you some of our oil, then we ourselves may not have enough. And then we might both run

00:11:47.100 out of oil and then when the the bridegroom comes we'll all miss him so i'm sorry um so they say no 0.96

00:11:54.040 then the five foolish versions uh virgins they go into town to buy more oil for their lamps and 0.89

00:11:59.640 then they're going to come back but as they go away into town to buy more oil because they were 0.99

00:12:04.020 foolish and didn't prepare didn't bring enough the bridegroom comes and when the bridegroom comes he 0.91

00:12:10.480 he then comes and meets with those those five wise virgins they go out to meet the bridegroom 0.99

00:12:17.340 and then they come in with him and go into the wedding hall and shut the door and the five 0.97

00:12:22.540 foolish virgins are shut out they miss it now all that being said what's what's significant 0.94

00:12:29.660 is this for our purposes in terms of post-millennialism and the post-millennial's 0.99

00:12:34.560 view of the rapture. When the bridegroom who represents Christ, when he comes, the five wise

00:12:40.980 virgins, what the parable says is that when they see him coming, they run out to meet him. Now think

00:12:48.240 about that for a second. These five wise virgins who have been waiting for the bridegroom to do 1.00

00:12:53.580 what? To come to their town, the one they're already in. They're not waiting for the bridegroom

00:12:59.440 to come and take them away to another town they've been waiting all day and now in well into the

00:13:06.360 night for the the bridegroom to come into their town the wedding's going to take place in their

00:13:11.760 town but they're still waiting nonetheless to see him at a far off distance so that they might run

00:13:18.920 out to meet the bridegroom be caught up that's actually the same similar wording similar phrasing 1.00

00:13:25.680 that these uh these five wise virgins would see the bridegroom coming and before he actually 0.99

00:13:31.780 fully technically arrives in their town touches down so to speak in their town that they would 0.99

00:13:38.420 run out of the town to meet him but then to come back and and what's the purpose of that why not

00:13:44.440 just wait till he gets all the way into town and then say hey great we've been waiting for you

00:13:49.280 Well, because it's a sense of honoring the bridegroom.

00:13:52.660 It's to show commendation, to show honor, to show esteem, that they're going to go out

00:13:59.040 to meet him so that they would then function as his accompaniment, his welcoming committee

00:14:06.700 to usher the king, or in this case, the bridegroom, into the town.

00:14:11.680 They're going to come out to meet him.

00:14:14.400 You know, one practice that a lot of people don't really do anymore, but I think is a

00:14:19.060 wonderful, good habit is that there was a time, you know, where not that long ago, where if you

00:14:26.280 invited a family over to your house, you were going to have a company, you were going to have

00:14:30.060 guests, and you invited them at a certain time, instead of just waiting for a knock at the door,

00:14:35.980 you might have waited outside, actually. You might have waited outside in the driveway,

00:14:41.840 waiting for them to pull up, waving, you know, so when you see them coming,

00:14:46.480 you would be able before they even step out of the car to be able to welcome them and say hello

00:14:52.940 and wave and be warm and hospitable and then welcome them into your home well so it was with

00:14:59.060 the five virgins they weren't they weren't on the on the fringe the edge of the town so that they

00:15:03.680 could see the bridegroom because he wasn't going to stop he was going to just pass on by their town

00:15:09.300 and so they needed to be on the edge of town so they could see him and when they saw him run out

00:15:13.820 to meet him to go somewhere else to the next town which where he was was actually headed as his

00:15:19.180 destination no he's headed to their town he's headed to their town but yet they're waiting it

00:15:24.200 seems as though the picture being conveyed is they're waiting at the edge of town for the

00:15:28.880 bridegroom so that they can spot him before he actually fully gets into town not so that they

00:15:34.580 can run out with him to go somewhere else but so they can run out with him in order to be his 0.98

00:15:39.140 welcoming committee to come back to the very same town where these five wise virgins were to begin 1.00

00:15:44.940 with. That being said, how does that apply to 1 Thessalonians chapter 4, the rapture? The

00:15:51.140 post-millennial view of the rapture is that we believe that those who are first dead in Christ,

00:15:56.760 when Christ finally returns, his final physical return, when that happens, that those who are

00:16:02.720 dead in Christ, that they'll be resurrected and caught up in the air to meet with Jesus. Then

00:16:08.760 those who are living whatever generation of christians are still alive when christ returns

00:16:14.020 they then will be caught up into the air with christ and then what's going to happen well the

00:16:20.740 text only says in first corinth first thessalonians chapter four the text only explicitly says um then

00:16:27.740 we will be with the lord always it says um verse 17 then we who are alive who are left will be

00:16:34.360 caught up, that's that rapture kind of language, caught up together with them, that is the Lord

00:16:39.080 and those who were dead in Christ, in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always

00:16:46.300 be with the Lord. But it doesn't say we're going to meet with the Lord in the air. And so we will

00:16:50.440 then live in the air, in the clouds forever. No, it just says we'll always be with the Lord. Where

00:16:57.040 though? With the Lord. We'll be with the Lord. We know that. But where will we be with the Lord?

00:17:02.880 here here we're going to go up like the five virgins going out of this world just like they

00:17:09.600 went out from their town to welcome the lord that they welcomed the bridegroom we welcoming the

00:17:15.420 bridegroom and the king of all the earth saying welcome we've been waiting for you and then we're

00:17:20.920 going to become his accompaniment accompaniment his welcoming committee to then turn right back

00:17:26.620 around and usher the king to his domain this earth made new the new heavens brought to the new earth

00:17:35.320 to dwell with him here but that is the rapture in the post-millennial view so what i'm saying is this

00:17:40.380 the post-millennial we do not reject a rapture in every in all of its forms in the technical sense

00:17:47.220 in the technical biblical sense we believe that there is a rapture but we don't believe that

00:17:52.740 there are going to be multiple comings of the Lord in the sense that he's going to come in

00:17:57.300 and do a secret rapture of the church first, while the dead in Christ are still dead and

00:18:04.460 buried. And then there's going to be, you know, seven years of tribulation, and then he'll come

00:18:08.860 again. You just, you have to stop for a second and acknowledge that is multiple comings of Christ.

00:18:13.800 That's Christ coming once for a rapture, then coming again after the tribulation. That's if

00:18:18.440 you're pre-trib if you're mid-trib it's still multiple comings it's uh the the tribulation

00:18:22.980 starts three and a half years go by then christ comes for a secret rapture of the church and then

00:18:27.700 you know that those who are living in christ they're they're alleviated of their suffering

00:18:32.120 they go to be with christ in heaven somewhere else then you got three and a half years of

00:18:35.980 tribulation still on the clock that clock runs out and then christ comes back again for those

00:18:42.100 who are have converted during those three and a half years and those who are dead in christ to

00:18:46.280 be resurrected blah blah blah that's multiple comings um that's a secret rapture um we believe

00:18:53.660 uh as post-millennials that there will be um a rapture we will be caught up with christ um but

00:19:00.560 it's going to be simultaneous with his final return it's not him coming in a secret way to

00:19:07.080 rapture only those who are in the church to where if you're a non-believer you know you're walking

00:19:11.200 around you know or like the left behind series you know you're driving and then all of a sudden 1.00

00:19:15.620 there's all these traffic jams and car accidents because all the Christians, you know, got raptured 0.84

00:19:22.120 out of the car and there's no one behind the wheel anymore. And it just happened and nobody saw it, 0.86

00:19:26.880 right? All the unbelievers, none of them saw Jesus. No, no, no. They'll see him. Everybody 0.59

00:19:31.080 will see him. It won't be a secret. When Jesus returns, he will return in the air. The whole

00:19:37.200 world will see him. And those who were dead in Christ will be resurrected and caught up,

00:19:44.500 raptured up with him in the air in the clouds then those who were currently living in christ

00:19:50.420 living christians of that generation when he returns they'll be caught up into the air and

00:19:56.460 then we will welcome the king as his accompaniment his welcoming party his uh cavalade to usher the

00:20:04.900 king to touch down to the earth to his kingdom that has been delivered to him that's the

00:20:12.340 post-millennial view of the rapture it's not secret and it's also it does not precede his

00:20:17.860 final return so it's not pre-trib or mid-trib um but rather it's it's all one foul swoop it's one

00:20:25.240 event it's it's two things happening happening simultaneously it's the uh the church those who

00:20:31.280 are dead in christ and then those who are living in christ the church being caught up raptured

00:20:36.560 to then come with jesus to touch down so it's it's one fact so it's rapture coming rapture

00:20:45.180 coming uh landing on on the earth and the earth then made new uh the new heavens brought to the

00:20:52.440 new earth so that is the post-millennial view of the rapture we don't deny uh we don't say that

00:20:56.860 there is no rapture uh we believe that um that we will be caught up that is biblical language but

00:21:02.760 we deny a secret rapture to be caught up and then ushered off somewhere else we believe we'll be

00:21:09.060 caught up to meet jesus at a halfway point for lack of a better phrase in the air jesus having

00:21:16.020 come from heaven us having been caught up from earth meeting him in the air to then um be his

00:21:22.660 his um his welcoming committee as i've already said you know this um this kingly royal um uh

00:21:31.800 bringing you know declaring uh you know here he here he here comes the king make way for the king

00:21:37.820 and and coming down with him um honoring him esteeming him but also in a sense sharing in

00:21:43.680 his glory as those who have union with christ as those who are co-heirs sharing with the king in

00:21:49.480 that kingly royal glory as he comes and touches down to the earth um his kingdom being delivered

00:21:55.780 to him and so um that's the post-millennial view of the rapture so we don't deny the rapture but

00:22:00.500 we do deny a secret rapture. We deny the idea that Christ is going to come secretly, that

00:22:05.920 unbelievers won't see him, only the church will, and that he's going to rapture us, but not actually

00:22:11.760 come and establish his kingdom, but just rapture us and take us somewhere else while something's

00:22:16.820 still going on here on earth, and then he'll come another time. That's not the post-millennial view.

00:22:21.840 Now, to be fair, because I can just, I know other guys of different eschatological persuasions

00:22:26.720 might say, well, post-millennials, you still believe in multiple comings, and that's true.

00:22:30.500 we do uh we believe you know and everybody does in a sense we believe that christ came in the

00:22:35.460 incarnation that was his first coming on his earthly ministry 2 000 years ago so we believe

00:22:40.400 all christians believe that in his first coming and then dispensational primo christians depending

00:22:46.920 on whether or not they believe in a pre-trib or mid-trib they believe in not two comings but

00:22:52.480 actually you know it's not a second coming it would be a third coming you know there's uh there's

00:22:56.240 at least three comings, some persuasions of dispensation, although it's rare, it's not the

00:23:01.060 majority report, but some dispensationalists, if you break it down, it's even four comings. And so

00:23:05.560 the dispensational pre-mill guy is going to say usually three comings, that Christ came in the

00:23:12.560 incarnation 2,000 years ago, we all affirm that, then Christ will come, a second coming in the

00:23:17.800 rapture, but there'll still be more tribulation to go, and then he'll come his third time when

00:23:23.140 the tribulation is over. And post-millennials, likewise, we believe in multiple comings. The

00:23:29.480 incarnation, that's the first coming of Christ, and the incarnation is with the ministry 2,000

00:23:33.360 years ago. And then also this coming in a spiritual coming on the clouds, clouds signifying

00:23:40.560 judgment in this case, per Joel chapter 2, that following the first half of Joel chapter 2,

00:23:46.920 Pentecost, pouring out God's spirit on all flesh, sons and daughters, prophesying, that happened at

00:23:52.780 Pentecost, Peter says that's the fulfillment of Joel chapter two. But then the second half of

00:23:57.040 Joel chapter two is that he'll come on the clouds. There will be billows and clouds of smoke and the

00:24:02.300 sun will be blotted out and turned to blood red. That's judgment language. And so Joel two, the

00:24:08.820 first half is Pentecost. The second half is judgment. So the post-millennial, we believe

00:24:12.820 that Pentecost was a fulfillment of Joel chapter two, but then AD 70 was the second half of that

00:24:19.840 fulfillment of Joel chapter 2, that there's the point out of the Spirit that Acts chapter 2 is a

00:24:25.800 fulfillment of Joel chapter 2 in Pentecost, but then AD 70 in the destruction of Jerusalem in the

00:24:31.820 temple was the second half of that fulfillment of Joel chapter 2, that it's both, that it was

00:24:37.580 Pentecost outpouring of the Spirit, but then also it was judgment, and that that was a coming of

00:24:43.660 Christ. It was a local coming, not global, to Jerusalem. It was a local coming, and it was a

00:24:49.400 spiritual coming but that was in a sense we could say that was a return of christ so christ came

00:24:54.560 once in the incarnation he came twice in 80 70 that's a partial preterist view that many

00:25:01.760 post-millennials not all but many post-millennials hold and that was a local spiritual coming and

00:25:06.920 then there will be the final physical worldwide coming of christ and that will be the rapture

00:25:13.780 and boom, touching down on earth, the end of this gospel age, the end, the culmination,

00:25:20.660 the final culmination of human history as we know it at the same time, simultaneously,

00:25:24.860 one foul swoop. Raptured, caught up, but not to go somewhere else as something still happens here

00:25:29.080 on earth without us. Nope, caught up and then touched down. So raptured up, just like the five

00:25:35.740 wise virgins go out to meet the bridegroom and then immediately come right back in for the end

00:25:41.740 of all things. So that's a post-millennial view of the rapture. I mean, you can't describe a

00:25:48.120 general view of anybody's position because there's always going to be distinctions and multiple

00:25:52.400 different positions, subcategories within a certain category. So not every post-millennial

00:25:57.620 necessarily holds to that, but many do. So all that being said, last thing real quick before we

00:26:03.240 go, you might've seen some of the controversy online, especially with Twitter right now about

00:26:08.420 my book. So if you want to check it out and you want to actually give me a fair chance at explaining

00:26:14.860 myself and not just straw man, but actually look at the book and look at the biblical arguments

00:26:19.800 that are made, certainly people will disagree and that's fine for Christians to disagree,

00:26:23.180 but it's good to disagree fairly, to actually know what the position is and to know the biblical

00:26:28.620 arguments and then be able to use the Bible to refute them if you still disagree. So check out

00:26:34.200 the book. It's called Fight by Flight. Again, I'll hold it up. Fight by Flight. Subtitle is

00:26:38.320 Why Leaving Godless Places is Loving Godless Places. Michael Foster, he wrote an endorsement.

00:26:45.640 Steve Days from The Blaze, he wrote an endorsement. I was on his show recently talking about the book.

00:26:50.340 Meg Basham from The Daily Wire and Doug Wilson forwarded it. You can go to Amazon.com or you

00:26:55.300 can go to RightResponseMinistries.com, get a copy of the book. And then lastly, here's one final

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The NXR Podcast - June 29, 2023

BONUS EPISODE - The Postmillennial View Of The Rapture ｜ Live with Pastor Joel

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