BONUS EPISODE - The Postmillennial View Of The Rapture ｜ Live with Pastor Joel
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Summary
Pastor Joel Webin discusses the postmillennial view of the Rapture and what it means to be a believer in a rapture. He also announces the March Conference, which will be held on March 1st, 2nd, and 3rd, 2024.
Transcript
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hi welcome back to another episode of our monday live show i am pastor joel webin with right
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response ministries and we do this every monday usually at 2 p.m central we're a little bit early
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today um just because of scheduling conflicts but uh what i want to discuss is the post-millennial
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view of the rapture um i've had some people ask you know well uh do post-millennials even believe
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in a rapture what is their view of the rapture you know i was thinking uh just last uh night
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in our Sunday evening service at Covenant Bible Church
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I think it's visions of rapture burst into sight.
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I probably need to explain this even to my congregation
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sometime soon because, you know, we're singing this and everyone, you know, in the congregation
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knows that I'm post-millennial and most of the members of the church are also in their eschatology
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post-millennial. And here we are singing this song that has the word rapture in it, you know,
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and they're probably, you know, like, can a post-millennial sing this song? Which I believe
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they can because it's not specific. It doesn't say a secret rapture. It doesn't say a rapture
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that's coming you know um next thursday and you know so um i think it's perfectly conducive with
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the post-millennial eschatology that particular song blessed assurance uh and the way that they
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use the word rapture but anyways it just got me thinking in my local setting pastorally but then
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also publicly i've had people ask the same kind of question so i thought you know what this will
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probably be a brief video but i just want to explain um in general what what is the post-millennial
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view of the rapture and it's not that post-millennials don't believe there is any
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kind of rapture we do believe in a rapture that might surprise you you probably have been many
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of you under the impression that post-millennials don't believe there is a rapture at all but we
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technically to be fair we do believe in a rapture it's not a secret rapture but we do believe in a
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rapture and i'm going to show you the way we view from the scripture what that rapture looks like
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but real quick before i do let me make a brief announcement and also offer a brief word for one
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of our sponsors. So the announcement is this. We've got our March conference, March 1st, 2nd,
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and 3rd. That's a Friday, Saturday, and Sunday of next year, 2024. It's coming up. We've got
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Doug Wilson, Brian Sauve, Joe Boot, myself, Michael Foster, and Dale Partridge who are going to be
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speaking at this conference. The title is Blueprints for Christendom 2.0. We're going to
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be talking about seven particular doctrines that we think are vital when it comes to stewarding
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and ruling, righteously ruling the world, exercising good stewardship, pushing back
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the kingdom of darkness, pressing for the crown rights of King Jesus. So we're going to be talking
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about reformed confessional theology. We're going to talk about covenant theology, biblical
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patriarchy, presuppositionalism, Kuyperianism, this all of Christ for all of life mentality,
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general equity theonomy and post-millennial eschatology and so this conference is going
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to cover all seven of those doctrines we're also going to have a few live panels one where we talk
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about biblical patriarchy that's going to be with me and Doug and Michael Foster and also Eric Kahn
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from It's Good to Be a Man and then we'll also do a live panel the second day of the conference
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the first one in biblical patriarchy will be on Friday the second day Saturday March 2nd we'll
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do a panel on all things obscure and unhinged with Brian Sauve and also Ben Garrett from
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Haunted Cosmos podcast. They're going to do a panel with us. So we're really excited about
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the conference. It'll also hold over to March 3rd, that Lord's Day. And one of our speakers
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will stay over and preach the sermon. And I'll lead everybody through the liturgy for that Lord's
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Day worship. So it's going to be a great time. If you haven't already registered, I encourage you
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to do so. Our early bird rate is running out. It's going to run out, um, at the end of August,
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August 31st is going to be the very last day, uh, for our early bird pricing. So if you haven't
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registered already, uh, you need to do so, um, because the early bird pricing is running out,
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but also I've got a sneaking suspicion. Our theonomy and post-mail conference that we held
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a couple of months ago, uh, that sold out six months in advance. And I think this one might
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sell out even faster. The conference is in March and we really, I, I'm not just trying to, you
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don't use hyperbole to get you to buy the ticket right now today. I really think that we're going
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to sell out at least six months in advance, just like our last conference. So we've already done
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it with the last conference. It would not shock me if we did it again. So yeah, you want to get
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the early bird pricing, but you also just want to get a seat. So go to rightresponseconference.com,
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not Right Response Ministries, but in this case, rightresponseconference.com to register today.
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All right, quick word from our sponsor. We'll move on.
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to order your coffee today. All right, so let's go ahead and look at some scripture. This is 1
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Thessalonians chapter 4. If you're joining us just now with a live stream, we're talking about
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a post-millennial view of the rapture. The post-millennials do believe that there is a
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rapture. We deny that there is a secret rapture, but we do believe in a rapture of sorts. And so
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I want to go ahead and explain the post-millennial view from the scripture of what that rapture
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looks like. So this is 1 Thessalonians chapter 4, starting in verse 13. This is where the apostle
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Paul is, he's talking about the coming of the Lord and what happens to those who were Christians who
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are in the Lord through faith, but who have fallen asleep. That is those who have died. What about
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loved ones who are Christians who have died? He's offering a sense of consolation and comfort
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to his hearer saying, those who died in the Lord are not utterly and finally lost. Okay. Verse 13,
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1 Thessalonians 4, beginning in verse 13. But we do not want you to be uninformed brothers about
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those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do, who have no hope. For since we believe
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that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have
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fallen asleep. For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left
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in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord. Therefore,
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encourage one another with these words. That's the end of the chapter. So that's first Thessalonians
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chapter four, verses 13 through 18. Okay. A couple of things to point out here. Number one,
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it's interesting that it says that we will be caught up, those who are alive. So first,
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the dead in christ that they'll be resurrected brought out of the tombs and that they will be
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caught up to meet the lord then secondly so first the dead in christ then those of us who are still
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alive at his coming so whenever the lord comes whatever generation that's in everyone who has
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been a christian but already dead they will first be resurrected that'll be the first sequence of
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events but then secondly those who are currently still alive on the planet who are also in the
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lord christians um after the dead in christ are raised then those who are still alive in christ
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will be caught up okay now the word uh that's significant for our discussion today is that
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phrase two words caught up that's the rapture um caught up uh and and that kind of concept and
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wording it's it's interesting because there's a very similar phrasing and certainly the same
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concept and principle when Jesus tells the parable of the 10 virgins, right? So if you're
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not familiar with that parable, it's the parable where Jesus says, you know, there are 10 virgins
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and five of them were wise and five of them were foolish. And what they were doing is they each had
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a lamp and they were waiting for the bridegroom. There was a wedding that was going to take place
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and they were going to be honored guests at this wedding and they didn't want to miss it.
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So they're waiting. They don't know exactly when, what the hour is that the bridegroom will arrive,
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but they know that he's coming and they want to be ready so that they're not shut out of the chapel
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hall, that they're not shut out of the wedding. They want to be present there. Now the five
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foolish virgins, what happens is they're waiting all day, but now it's coming into the night and
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the five foolish virgins, they didn't bring extra oil to keep their lamp lit so that they could see
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in the darkness now that it's night. And so they've run out of oil. And so what they do is they go to
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the five wise virgins who were prepared and they say, give us some of your oil. And the five wise
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virgins, they say, no, I'm sorry. It's not malicious on the five wise virgins part, but they say, no,
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if we give you some of our oil, then we ourselves may not have enough. And then we might both run
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out of oil and then when the the bridegroom comes we'll all miss him so i'm sorry um so they say no
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then the five foolish versions uh virgins they go into town to buy more oil for their lamps and
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then they're going to come back but as they go away into town to buy more oil because they were
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foolish and didn't prepare didn't bring enough the bridegroom comes and when the bridegroom comes he
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he then comes and meets with those those five wise virgins they go out to meet the bridegroom
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and then they come in with him and go into the wedding hall and shut the door and the five
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foolish virgins are shut out they miss it now all that being said what's what's significant
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is this for our purposes in terms of post-millennialism and the post-millennial's
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view of the rapture. When the bridegroom who represents Christ, when he comes, the five wise
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virgins, what the parable says is that when they see him coming, they run out to meet him. Now think
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about that for a second. These five wise virgins who have been waiting for the bridegroom to do
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what? To come to their town, the one they're already in. They're not waiting for the bridegroom
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to come and take them away to another town they've been waiting all day and now in well into the
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night for the the bridegroom to come into their town the wedding's going to take place in their
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town but they're still waiting nonetheless to see him at a far off distance so that they might run
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out to meet the bridegroom be caught up that's actually the same similar wording similar phrasing
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that these uh these five wise virgins would see the bridegroom coming and before he actually
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fully technically arrives in their town touches down so to speak in their town that they would
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run out of the town to meet him but then to come back and and what's the purpose of that why not
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just wait till he gets all the way into town and then say hey great we've been waiting for you
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Well, because it's a sense of honoring the bridegroom.
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It's to show commendation, to show honor, to show esteem, that they're going to go out
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to meet him so that they would then function as his accompaniment, his welcoming committee
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to usher the king, or in this case, the bridegroom, into the town.
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You know, one practice that a lot of people don't really do anymore, but I think is a
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wonderful, good habit is that there was a time, you know, where not that long ago, where if you
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invited a family over to your house, you were going to have a company, you were going to have
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guests, and you invited them at a certain time, instead of just waiting for a knock at the door,
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you might have waited outside, actually. You might have waited outside in the driveway,
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waiting for them to pull up, waving, you know, so when you see them coming,
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you would be able before they even step out of the car to be able to welcome them and say hello
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and wave and be warm and hospitable and then welcome them into your home well so it was with
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the five virgins they weren't they weren't on the on the fringe the edge of the town so that they
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could see the bridegroom because he wasn't going to stop he was going to just pass on by their town
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and so they needed to be on the edge of town so they could see him and when they saw him run out
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to meet him to go somewhere else to the next town which where he was was actually headed as his
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destination no he's headed to their town he's headed to their town but yet they're waiting it
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seems as though the picture being conveyed is they're waiting at the edge of town for the
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bridegroom so that they can spot him before he actually fully gets into town not so that they
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can run out with him to go somewhere else but so they can run out with him in order to be his
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welcoming committee to come back to the very same town where these five wise virgins were to begin
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with. That being said, how does that apply to 1 Thessalonians chapter 4, the rapture? The
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post-millennial view of the rapture is that we believe that those who are first dead in Christ,
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when Christ finally returns, his final physical return, when that happens, that those who are
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dead in Christ, that they'll be resurrected and caught up in the air to meet with Jesus. Then
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those who are living whatever generation of christians are still alive when christ returns
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they then will be caught up into the air with christ and then what's going to happen well the
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text only says in first corinth first thessalonians chapter four the text only explicitly says um then
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we will be with the lord always it says um verse 17 then we who are alive who are left will be
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caught up, that's that rapture kind of language, caught up together with them, that is the Lord
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and those who were dead in Christ, in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always
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be with the Lord. But it doesn't say we're going to meet with the Lord in the air. And so we will
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then live in the air, in the clouds forever. No, it just says we'll always be with the Lord. Where
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though? With the Lord. We'll be with the Lord. We know that. But where will we be with the Lord?
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here here we're going to go up like the five virgins going out of this world just like they
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went out from their town to welcome the lord that they welcomed the bridegroom we welcoming the
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bridegroom and the king of all the earth saying welcome we've been waiting for you and then we're
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going to become his accompaniment accompaniment his welcoming committee to then turn right back
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around and usher the king to his domain this earth made new the new heavens brought to the new earth
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to dwell with him here but that is the rapture in the post-millennial view so what i'm saying is this
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the post-millennial we do not reject a rapture in every in all of its forms in the technical sense
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in the technical biblical sense we believe that there is a rapture but we don't believe that
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there are going to be multiple comings of the Lord in the sense that he's going to come in
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and do a secret rapture of the church first, while the dead in Christ are still dead and
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buried. And then there's going to be, you know, seven years of tribulation, and then he'll come
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again. You just, you have to stop for a second and acknowledge that is multiple comings of Christ.
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That's Christ coming once for a rapture, then coming again after the tribulation. That's if
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you're pre-trib if you're mid-trib it's still multiple comings it's uh the the tribulation
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starts three and a half years go by then christ comes for a secret rapture of the church and then
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you know that those who are living in christ they're they're alleviated of their suffering
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they go to be with christ in heaven somewhere else then you got three and a half years of
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tribulation still on the clock that clock runs out and then christ comes back again for those
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who are have converted during those three and a half years and those who are dead in christ to
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be resurrected blah blah blah that's multiple comings um that's a secret rapture um we believe
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uh as post-millennials that there will be um a rapture we will be caught up with christ um but
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it's going to be simultaneous with his final return it's not him coming in a secret way to
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rapture only those who are in the church to where if you're a non-believer you know you're walking
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around you know or like the left behind series you know you're driving and then all of a sudden
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there's all these traffic jams and car accidents because all the Christians, you know, got raptured
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out of the car and there's no one behind the wheel anymore. And it just happened and nobody saw it,
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right? All the unbelievers, none of them saw Jesus. No, no, no. They'll see him. Everybody
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will see him. It won't be a secret. When Jesus returns, he will return in the air. The whole
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world will see him. And those who were dead in Christ will be resurrected and caught up,
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raptured up with him in the air in the clouds then those who were currently living in christ
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living christians of that generation when he returns they'll be caught up into the air and
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then we will welcome the king as his accompaniment his welcoming party his uh cavalade to usher the
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king to touch down to the earth to his kingdom that has been delivered to him that's the
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post-millennial view of the rapture it's not secret and it's also it does not precede his
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final return so it's not pre-trib or mid-trib um but rather it's it's all one foul swoop it's one
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event it's it's two things happening happening simultaneously it's the uh the church those who
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are dead in christ and then those who are living in christ the church being caught up raptured
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to then come with jesus to touch down so it's it's one fact so it's rapture coming rapture
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coming uh landing on on the earth and the earth then made new uh the new heavens brought to the
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new earth so that is the post-millennial view of the rapture we don't deny uh we don't say that
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there is no rapture uh we believe that um that we will be caught up that is biblical language but
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we deny a secret rapture to be caught up and then ushered off somewhere else we believe we'll be
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caught up to meet jesus at a halfway point for lack of a better phrase in the air jesus having
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come from heaven us having been caught up from earth meeting him in the air to then um be his
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his um his welcoming committee as i've already said you know this um this kingly royal um uh
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bringing you know declaring uh you know here he here he here comes the king make way for the king
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and and coming down with him um honoring him esteeming him but also in a sense sharing in
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his glory as those who have union with christ as those who are co-heirs sharing with the king in
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that kingly royal glory as he comes and touches down to the earth um his kingdom being delivered
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to him and so um that's the post-millennial view of the rapture so we don't deny the rapture but
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we do deny a secret rapture. We deny the idea that Christ is going to come secretly, that
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unbelievers won't see him, only the church will, and that he's going to rapture us, but not actually
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come and establish his kingdom, but just rapture us and take us somewhere else while something's
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still going on here on earth, and then he'll come another time. That's not the post-millennial view.
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Now, to be fair, because I can just, I know other guys of different eschatological persuasions
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might say, well, post-millennials, you still believe in multiple comings, and that's true.
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we do uh we believe you know and everybody does in a sense we believe that christ came in the
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incarnation that was his first coming on his earthly ministry 2 000 years ago so we believe
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all christians believe that in his first coming and then dispensational primo christians depending
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on whether or not they believe in a pre-trib or mid-trib they believe in not two comings but
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actually you know it's not a second coming it would be a third coming you know there's uh there's
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at least three comings, some persuasions of dispensation, although it's rare, it's not the
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majority report, but some dispensationalists, if you break it down, it's even four comings. And so
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the dispensational pre-mill guy is going to say usually three comings, that Christ came in the
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incarnation 2,000 years ago, we all affirm that, then Christ will come, a second coming in the
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rapture, but there'll still be more tribulation to go, and then he'll come his third time when
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the tribulation is over. And post-millennials, likewise, we believe in multiple comings. The
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incarnation, that's the first coming of Christ, and the incarnation is with the ministry 2,000
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years ago. And then also this coming in a spiritual coming on the clouds, clouds signifying
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judgment in this case, per Joel chapter 2, that following the first half of Joel chapter 2,
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Pentecost, pouring out God's spirit on all flesh, sons and daughters, prophesying, that happened at
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Pentecost, Peter says that's the fulfillment of Joel chapter two. But then the second half of
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Joel chapter two is that he'll come on the clouds. There will be billows and clouds of smoke and the
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sun will be blotted out and turned to blood red. That's judgment language. And so Joel two, the
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first half is Pentecost. The second half is judgment. So the post-millennial, we believe
00:24:12.820
that Pentecost was a fulfillment of Joel chapter two, but then AD 70 was the second half of that
00:24:19.840
fulfillment of Joel chapter 2, that there's the point out of the Spirit that Acts chapter 2 is a
00:24:25.800
fulfillment of Joel chapter 2 in Pentecost, but then AD 70 in the destruction of Jerusalem in the
00:24:31.820
temple was the second half of that fulfillment of Joel chapter 2, that it's both, that it was
00:24:37.580
Pentecost outpouring of the Spirit, but then also it was judgment, and that that was a coming of
00:24:43.660
Christ. It was a local coming, not global, to Jerusalem. It was a local coming, and it was a
00:24:49.400
spiritual coming but that was in a sense we could say that was a return of christ so christ came
00:24:54.560
once in the incarnation he came twice in 80 70 that's a partial preterist view that many
00:25:01.760
post-millennials not all but many post-millennials hold and that was a local spiritual coming and
00:25:06.920
then there will be the final physical worldwide coming of christ and that will be the rapture
00:25:13.780
and boom, touching down on earth, the end of this gospel age, the end, the culmination,
00:25:20.660
the final culmination of human history as we know it at the same time, simultaneously,
00:25:24.860
one foul swoop. Raptured, caught up, but not to go somewhere else as something still happens here
00:25:29.080
on earth without us. Nope, caught up and then touched down. So raptured up, just like the five
00:25:35.740
wise virgins go out to meet the bridegroom and then immediately come right back in for the end
00:25:41.740
of all things. So that's a post-millennial view of the rapture. I mean, you can't describe a
00:25:48.120
general view of anybody's position because there's always going to be distinctions and multiple
00:25:52.400
different positions, subcategories within a certain category. So not every post-millennial
00:25:57.620
necessarily holds to that, but many do. So all that being said, last thing real quick before we
00:26:03.240
go, you might've seen some of the controversy online, especially with Twitter right now about
00:26:08.420
my book. So if you want to check it out and you want to actually give me a fair chance at explaining
00:26:14.860
myself and not just straw man, but actually look at the book and look at the biblical arguments
00:26:19.800
that are made, certainly people will disagree and that's fine for Christians to disagree,
00:26:23.180
but it's good to disagree fairly, to actually know what the position is and to know the biblical
00:26:28.620
arguments and then be able to use the Bible to refute them if you still disagree. So check out
00:26:34.200
the book. It's called Fight by Flight. Again, I'll hold it up. Fight by Flight. Subtitle is
00:26:38.320
Why Leaving Godless Places is Loving Godless Places. Michael Foster, he wrote an endorsement.
00:26:45.640
Steve Days from The Blaze, he wrote an endorsement. I was on his show recently talking about the book.
00:26:50.340
Meg Basham from The Daily Wire and Doug Wilson forwarded it. You can go to Amazon.com or you
00:26:55.300
can go to RightResponseMinistries.com, get a copy of the book. And then lastly, here's one final
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