The NXR Podcast - CONFERENCE - Battle Plans For Establishing A New Christendom - Pastor Joel Webbon

00:00:00.000 All right, hold up. You're not going to want to miss this. I'm going to tell you exactly how our

00:00:03.580 spring 2024 conference is going to go down. Here's the title of the conference. Blueprints

00:00:08.860 for Christendom 2.0. Subtitle, Seven Doctrines for Ruling the World. We're going to have seven

00:00:15.120 primary sessions covering each of these doctrines for ruling the world righteously. Number one,

00:00:22.020 Reformed Confessionalism. That's going to be Pastor Doug Wilson preaching on that topic.

00:00:26.860 Then we've got Covenant Theology with Pastor Brian Sauve.

00:00:30.400 Then we've got Biblical Patriarchy with Pastor Michael Foster.

00:00:34.300 Then we've got Presuppositionalism with Dr. Joseph Boot.

00:00:38.140 Then we've got Kuyperianism, All of Christ for All of Life, where we're going to welcome

00:00:43.100 Pastor Doug Wilson back for a second session.

00:00:46.100 Then we've got General Equity Theonomy.

00:00:48.740 We're going to have Dr. Joseph Boot come and do a second session on that topic.

00:00:52.520 And then lastly, we'll have Pastor Dale Partridge on post-millennial eschatology.

00:00:57.680 In addition to these seven sessions, we're also going to have not one, but two live podcasts.

00:01:04.040 On the first day of the conference, that's Friday, March 1st, we're going to have a live

00:01:08.300 theology applied podcast.

00:01:10.400 I'll be on the stage hosting the discussion with Douglas Wilson, Michael Foster, and Eric

00:01:15.860 Kahn from It's Good to Be a Man.

00:01:17.840 The topic is going to be all about biblical patriarchy.

00:01:21.020 We're going to specifically be parsing out, distinguishing the biblical doctrinal differences

00:01:26.580 between patriarchy and complementarianism.

00:01:29.720 Again, that's Friday, March 1st, the first day of the conference, a live theology applied

00:01:34.620 podcast on biblical patriarchy.

00:01:36.960 Then we're going to have the next day, that's Saturday, March 2nd, a live haunted cosmos

00:01:42.680 podcast.

00:01:43.780 I'll be hosting this discussion with Brian Sauve and Ben Garrett.

00:01:47.800 We're going to be talking about the Nephilim.

00:01:49.320 We're going to be talking about the Watchers.

00:01:51.120 We're going to be talking about what creatures currently are living underneath the surface

00:01:55.240 of the earth and chasms of the deep.

00:01:57.220 It's going to be wacky.

00:01:58.280 It's going to be weird, but it will also be thoroughly biblical and incredibly unhinged.

00:02:03.720 So you're not going to want to miss these two live podcasts, Theology Applied, on Friday,

00:02:08.600 March 1st, the first day of the conference on biblical patriarchy with Doug Wilson, Michael

00:02:13.700 Foster, Eric Kahn, and myself.

00:02:15.300 And then the next day of the conference, Saturday, March 2nd, a live Haunted Cosmos podcast with

00:02:21.640 Brian Sauve and Ben Garrett and myself on the Nephilim, the Watchers, and what lies under

00:02:27.140 the surface of the earth. And then the conference will hold over for one final, the third and final

00:02:32.740 day. That's going to be the Lord's Day, Sunday, March 3rd, where one of our speakers will be

00:02:37.940 holding over to preach the Lord's Day sermon, and I'll be leading us in worship through the liturgy.

00:02:43.700 So we've got three days, a Friday, Saturday, Sunday, March 1st, 2nd, and 3rd of 2024,

00:02:50.460 blueprints for Christendom 2.0, seven doctrines for ruling the world.

00:02:55.240 You're not going to want to miss this conference.

00:02:57.060 Our early bird rate is still available, but only for a very short period of time.

00:03:02.360 We are ending the early bird rate on August 31st at 1159 p.m.

00:03:07.720 That will be the final chance to get into this conference at an affordable, cheap rate.

00:03:13.700 all right so go and take advantage of the early bird rate right now by going to right response

00:03:18.480 conference.com again that's right response conference.com to register for blueprints

00:03:25.900 for chrissidom 2.0 march 1st 2nd and 3rd 2024 register today so many of you are probably already

00:03:34.160 aware of this but i've been in a little bit of a debate lately online and offline and pretty much

00:03:39.980 every realm of my life about Christian nationalism, and I addressed some of that in my manifesto,

00:03:47.060 for lack of a better label, when we opened the conference yesterday afternoon. But I thought

00:03:52.620 that it might be helpful to go through a little bit of my thinking on this and how it relates to

00:03:57.240 post-millennialism, how it relates to general equity theonomy, talk a little bit about Christendom,

00:04:03.960 talk about theocracy. One of the questions that I want to address this evening is

00:04:08.760 top down versus bottom up? That's one of the questions that I've seen people asking this

00:04:15.740 post-millennial theonomic chrysidom. Is it just coercion? Is it just from the top down or is it

00:04:24.860 from the bottom up? I think it's both. Spoiler alert, but we will talk about that. So basically

00:04:30.440 my goal is, by God's grace, to be really practical, to answer, I think, a lot of questions,

00:04:36.700 not just this is post-millennialism or this is theonomy but getting into a little bit of the

00:04:43.840 weeds in terms of how these things might actually play out that's my goal I'm sure I'll do it

00:04:49.840 imperfectly but I'm going to try so let's go ahead and start with prayer father God I pray that you

00:04:55.680 would empower me by your spirit Lord that you would grant me wisdom that you would grant me

00:05:01.200 grace that you would use me to the edification of your people that i would be helpful and that we

00:05:09.820 would grow that we would be equipped and that we would be better positioned to live faithful lives

00:05:16.280 of obedience out of love for christ we pray these things in jesus name amen all right so i am a

00:05:25.520 Christian nationalist. Why am I a Christian nationalist? Number one, because it's true.

00:05:31.600 The way that I think about it is this, and you've heard other people say it, but I think they're

00:05:36.060 right. I don't feel as though we really have a choice, right? You have three primary categories

00:05:42.200 and six total categories. If you consider the fact that underneath each of these three

00:05:48.620 primary categories, there are actually two subcategories. The three primary categories

00:05:54.180 are as follows. Tribalism, nationalism, globalism. I'm not a globalist. I am not a tribalist.

00:06:04.020 I am a nationalist. Now, I understand some of the problems with the ism, as Dr. Boot was talking 0.76

00:06:09.780 about. Isms are usually a bit dangerous. Femininity, wonderful. Feminism, terrible. So isms usually 1.00

00:06:17.980 come in and wreck things. So if you want to get rid of the ism and just say, you know, Christian 1.00

00:06:24.540 nationalist or an advocate for Christian nations, that's fine. But I don't think there's any 1.00

00:06:31.740 escaping this category of nations, right? That it's not just being tribal and it's certainly not

00:06:38.720 a one world order. I'm not a fan of Soros, right? So that's not the direction that the Bible points

00:06:47.060 towards we see in acts chapter 17 that nations are affirmed by god they're good they're his idea

00:06:53.660 and they're appointed by him both their borders and their times god causes nations to rise he

00:07:00.180 causes nations to fall to be decimated nations the bible speaks of nations in terms of the nation

00:07:07.500 that honors the lord that fears the lord will be exalted and the nation that does not fear the lord 0.69

00:07:13.540 but rebels against him will be brought low it will be destroyed so nations are god's idea and

00:07:21.160 i do believe that god he works in nations he exalts them because of faithfulness to christ

00:07:27.920 not some abstract moral goodness that's somehow separate from christian goodness there's only one

00:07:34.920 kind of true goodness christ is the standard his word is the standard if it's not christian

00:07:41.920 it's not moral. If it's not Christian, it's not moral. So nations that are moral, that are good

00:07:50.040 nations, are nations that are Christian. And they're either explicitly Christian, which they

00:07:55.320 should be. That's the best case scenario. But at worst, they might be moral in some aspects, in some 1.00

00:08:02.840 regard, but still, while not explicitly acknowledging Christ, they're still at least borrowing from

00:08:09.560 Christ. That's what Greg Bonson would say. You know, the atheist can only get up and debate

00:08:14.240 a Christian apologist by borrowing from the Christian's worldview. He assumes for a debate

00:08:20.900 to even make sense that logic exists. And the atheist worldview can't account for logic. Why

00:08:29.660 would there be laws of logic if all of creation isn't actually creation, but it's just physical

00:08:36.680 matter that randomly came about over billions and billions of years, just little lizard people

00:08:43.660 crawling out of some kind of soup that eventually became this and eventually became that. There is

00:08:50.020 no logic to that. That's chaotic. And I think everyone in the room would agree with that. I

00:08:56.280 think I'd be willing to bet pretty much everybody here is a six-day literal creationist. I said this

00:09:03.800 during our q a or at some point but i said that i there's it's the same kind of principle the same

00:09:10.480 principle that we that we heartedly receive and accept as christians when it comes to creation

00:09:16.480 that god gradually and systematically intentionally created the world not just in one moment not even

00:09:25.340 in one day but over six days he progressively creates the world and he distinguishes he

00:09:32.780 separates night right light from darkness he separates land from water and then God fills

00:09:40.580 right so he's he's creating he's bringing a sense of order to the chaos the spirit is hovering

00:09:47.880 brooding above the waters the earth is without form it's void God creates then he he distinguishes

00:09:55.680 he separates, right? He categorizes orders, and then he fills. He fills the land with beasts of

00:10:03.140 the field. He fills the ocean. It's teeming with life and with fish. And God does all of this

00:10:08.060 strategically, progressively, gradually. That is, in an eschological framework, that is the

00:10:15.740 post-millennial position. It's saying that he knows the end from the beginning. He's decreed it all,

00:10:21.520 And it's all going to come about. But one of the things that God has decreed in this glorious plan from creation all the way to consummation is that Jesus will inherit as his reward for his obedience to the father.

00:10:36.940 His reward, his inheritance, is nations. Nations are his inheritance. It's not just an abstract, monolithic world.

00:10:47.860 It's not a one world order, but it's actually multiple different nations.

00:10:53.700 And it's not just multiple different ethnicities in one world order without borders, because we have love in our hearts.

00:11:01.360 No, it's multiple different political nations.

00:11:06.900 It's a politic.

00:11:09.020 And they have borders.

00:11:10.080 They have distinctions.

00:11:11.220 They have governments.

00:11:12.260 They have kings.

00:11:13.240 They have rulers.

00:11:14.360 Whatever they may have.

00:11:15.700 And this is the inheritance that Christ has.

00:11:19.400 He has bought this world by his blood.

00:11:22.120 This is what the Father has promised to him.

00:11:24.560 So Acts 17 says that God sets their borders.

00:11:27.320 And he sets nations' times.

00:11:29.380 And so in that sense, I don't know how to get around the fact that we are as Christians.

00:11:33.900 If we have a Christian worldview, we believe in the innate goodness of God's plan of nations.

00:11:41.000 So we are nationalists in that sense, certainly more than we are globalists and certainly

00:11:47.320 more than we are tribalists.

00:11:49.440 So the next question is, do you hold to Christian nations or pagan nations?

00:11:55.920 And I think this is part of the problem within evangelicalism

00:11:58.900 is because we still have good brothers in Christ

00:12:02.940 who think that there is a third option.

00:12:05.400 They think that there's something in between

00:12:07.540 Christian faithfulness and paganism.

00:12:11.600 They think that there's neutrality.

00:12:13.780 They have not yet fully come to terms, not consistently.

00:12:17.980 They at least have not applied it all the way,

00:12:20.960 the reality of neutrality being a myth.

00:12:23.840 the myth of neutrality secularism it's important that we understand that secular humanism is merely

00:12:31.840 a placeholder and it was always meant to be a placeholder secularism is not a viable worldview

00:12:40.060 if we think in terms of hosts and parasites secularism would be a parasite it's not a host

00:12:48.320 It's not viable. 0.78

00:12:50.720 Secularism only appears, it only has the mere temporary optic of viability and strength,

00:12:58.520 so long as it's attached to a viable host. 0.72

00:13:03.480 The host has been, for the last several hundred years, for this parasite of secularism, 0.81

00:13:09.720 the host has been the Christian worldview. 0.94

00:13:12.540 Christendom has been the host.

00:13:14.260 and i think in many ways that's the reason why secularism has appeared and it's only a thin

00:13:20.700 veneer not in an objective sense it does not work but in terms of mere appearances secularism has

00:13:27.180 appeared to work not just for a few years or even a few decades secularism has appeared to be a

00:13:34.000 viable sustainable options for such a long time because as a parasite it attached itself to such

00:13:42.260 a viable host. There's no stronger host in all the universe than Christendom. There's no stronger

00:13:50.100 host than the Christian worldview. And it wasn't just that secularism attached itself to Christendom

00:13:56.860 after Christendom had had a 30-year reign, right? Or a 300-year reign. But very arguably, the case

00:14:05.640 can be made that the chrysidom had a 1500 year reign if you start with constantine you can then

00:14:13.040 start with king alfred that would be about a thousand years from now and then certainly with

00:14:17.340 england and the covenanters and the puritans the founders with america so no matter how you slice

00:14:23.060 it we're talking about centuries not decades certainly not years but centuries 500 would be

00:14:31.200 the minimum time frame of chrysidom but i think easily could be argued in terms of 1500 years

00:14:38.940 so people will say what's the problem what's the problem with classical liberalism

00:14:43.920 what's the problem it's worked well you you're saying that this is a parasite that it's not

00:14:51.180 viable how could something that's not viable work for 100 years 150 years 200 years

00:15:00.920 Well, if it's coming on the heels of something that existed for 1,500 years, then even a 200-year-old parasite can still appear viable if it's attached and gaining its life source from a 1,500-year-old host, namely Christodom.

00:15:22.620 so all that being said one of the illustrations that i've used in the past is that christendom

00:15:29.680 and paganism not secularism hear me now christendom and paganism are like two massive ships

00:15:37.400 one is departing it's leaving the docks and that would be christendom the other is coming into port

00:15:45.220 to replace him that would be not secularism but paganism now these are old ships paganism

00:15:54.100 secularism is relatively new paganism is old chrysidom is old two very large ships and very

00:16:03.000 old ships and therefore work with me with my illustration here very slow ships and there

00:16:10.420 was a moment as Christendom is receding, and paganism is coming in to take its place, where

00:16:17.960 these two ships in the night are passing by one another. And they didn't just pass by one another

00:16:26.020 for 15 minutes, but arguably for 150 years. And as Christendom was on its way out, paganism on its 0.74

00:16:35.460 way in, the tides receding with Christendom and paganism, the old gods, Chris Wiley, Glenn

00:16:43.420 Sunshine, some of those guys have talked about this, coming back in, it gave this momentary,

00:16:49.020 a long moment, albeit from our perspective of people who live approximately 70, 80, 90

00:16:55.260 years, it seemed long to us, multiple generations, but still momentary.

00:17:00.300 in the big scheme of things in human history a very momentary optic veneer appearance of

00:17:09.320 neutrality secularism secularism is viable no it only appears viable because paganism

00:17:16.720 has not yet landed not fully and chrysidom has not yet left not fully and because chrysidom

00:17:26.260 we can still see it from the dock goodbye chrysidom please come back chrysidom because it's still

00:17:32.280 in sight we can still see it we still have some of the supplies that it dropped off for us we're 1.00

00:17:37.280 still eating from that living off of that because chrysidom is still within our sights and paganism

00:17:43.900 is within our sights as well but is not fully landed it gave this optic this appearance that

00:17:49.440 secularism was actually a viable, in fact, a very tolerant and compassionate and loving

00:17:56.580 worldview. In fact, better than Christodom. The more humanitarian, the more kind, loving worldview.

00:18:07.060 In fact, if Christians, if they insist upon the Christian worldview and explicitly Christian 0.99

00:18:13.000 nations instead of secular nations then christians are actually being jerks they're actually being 0.99

00:18:21.060 rude oh why not just share religious freedom with others why not just carve out spaces for 0.99

00:18:29.980 for this thought and that ritual and this custom in that culture right principled pluralism

00:18:39.640 Principled pluralism brought you drag queen story hour.

00:18:44.300 That's where that came from. 1.00

00:18:46.300 That is cultists.

00:18:48.180 That is worship.

00:18:50.420 And that is the logical, inevitable end of secularism.

00:18:57.580 Right back to ultimately the old gods of paganism.

00:19:03.380 We often think of abortion and liken it to Molech. 0.99

00:19:07.460 all right child sacrifice and i think that that is an accurate correlation a one correlation that

00:19:14.640 is not made nearly as often is in terms of transgenderism and the asherah poles i believe

00:19:23.620 it was the hardest voss actually who talked about this and said that the asherah poles were once

00:19:29.420 trees makes me think of tolkien uh and the the you know the uh two towers and eisenhower and you

00:19:38.040 know it's very integral to uproot the trees the old trees bring them down tear them down right

00:19:47.280 which ultimately is used to anger the ants right and the ants finally come in into battle but but

00:19:54.340 trees were integral. The trees are, they represent fruitfulness. They represent life. They also

00:20:00.860 represent shelter, protection, right? This mustard seed that grows into a tree, the beast of the field

00:20:08.500 finds shade and rust under it. The birds of the air are able to rest and perch in its branches.

00:20:14.360 So trees, they not only provide a source of life and food from fruitfulness, but also shelter.

00:20:20.440 It's provision and protection. You could argue both provision from its fruit and protection

00:20:26.740 from its shade. Trees are life-giving. Well, the Asherah pole were once trees, but they were

00:20:34.780 stripped of all their branches, of all their leaves, of all their fruit, stripped down into 1.00

00:20:40.880 androgynous, sane, bland, naked poles. And those are two of the sacraments that we find 0.93

00:20:51.160 in our culture today. The sacrament, it is worship, it is a religion. The sacrament of child

00:20:57.300 sacrifice, an abortion, think Molech, but also the sacrament of transgenderism. I think Asherah 1.00

00:21:05.660 disciples fruitlessness androgyny dead lifeless naked bare now these in one sense we could argue 0.96

00:21:16.940 are the logical and inevitable end of secularism in the other sense though we could also argue that 0.60

00:21:22.460 these are very very similar if not exact with old forms of paganism is transgenderism is abortion

00:21:34.140 are these kinds of things, sexual confusion, androgyny, feminism, goddess worship,

00:21:44.540 worshiping women, are these things merely, this is the question that I'm asking,

00:21:49.140 are they merely the logical end of a secular humanist worldview?

00:21:54.480 Or are they actually the introduction, the reintroduction of old pagan views?

00:22:01.200 is it a coincidence right because because that's the excuse that's the answer that's the response

00:22:07.020 it's always given is we were joking we're just joking you christians you just you're so serious

00:22:12.500 you make everything religious really because because there's a certain point where it's like

00:22:16.680 this is there are so many coincidences that i think there might be something of substance here

00:22:23.400 is it just a coincidence that the grammys or the oscars or whatever it was this satanic

00:22:30.740 performance? Is it just a coincidence that you actually have, you know, you're tearing down

00:22:37.040 statues of the founders, but erecting statues of old pagan gods, right? We've moved past religion. 0.65

00:22:46.660 We're superior to Neanderthal primitive people that still need a god. Okay, well, 0.98

00:22:55.540 science has replaced that. Sure, that's what you say. Neutrality has replaced it. Sure, that's what

00:23:01.480 you say. But then how come the further we go down this road of secularism, the more religious you

00:23:08.660 become? You're saying secularism was always meant to just replace religion because it holds you

00:23:13.860 back, because it's intolerant, because it's divisive. But we bought, and when I say we, I mean

00:23:19.540 the evangelical church over decades now we bought that lie we chose to play ball but what has 0.74

00:23:26.080 happened is not just the removal of christian religions but their replacement with false

00:23:32.460 religions minneapolis now has a public call to islamic prayer in american city five times a day

00:23:42.420 sirens playing in the city, 0.97

00:23:47.160 you've got to carve out a spot for the Muslim. 0.99

00:23:52.200 Principled pluralism.

00:23:54.300 For the record, some people have asked me,

00:23:55.960 would a Christian nation, particularly America,

00:23:59.740 require that we get rid of the Constitution? 0.76

00:24:02.960 What about the very First Amendment?

00:24:05.140 Freedom of religion?

00:24:06.200 My position is that no.

00:24:08.500 But what it would require,

00:24:09.600 we would not have to get rid of the Constitution.

00:24:11.360 but what it would require is that we become true constitutionalist in the sense that we get back

00:24:19.820 to authorial intent that the constitution is not a living document it doesn't evolve and change with

00:24:26.900 each generation the founders they were not saying freedom of religion to mean you know we just

00:24:35.400 really hope one day our great great great grandchildren will have muslim sirens five

00:24:43.760 times a day in their city that was not even on their radar when they say freedom of religion 0.98

00:24:50.540 what they're talking about is denominational battles within the christian faith they're

00:24:57.840 talking about carving out a spot for multiple different expressions not of other religions

00:25:03.580 but the one true religion, the Christian religion,

00:25:06.160 without being at each other's throats.

00:25:08.340 It's what Dr. White has mentioned being concerned about.

00:25:12.360 Dr. White is saying, you know what?

00:25:14.420 I am post-millennial.

00:25:17.160 I am theonomic.

00:25:19.420 I still don't really like this word Christendom

00:25:21.740 because I'm a Baptist

00:25:24.660 and Presbyterians weren't really nice to Baptists.

00:25:29.840 So we do need to figure that out.

00:25:31.860 That's, I believe, what the founders had in mind in terms of freedom of religion, not false religion, but different expressions of worship with our one common Lord is some of the language that is used even in the Westminster and other early documents.

00:25:46.160 So, no, I don't think that the Constitution would have to be rewritten. 0.72

00:25:50.040 One word real quick on just Presbyterians persecuting Baptists. 0.96

00:25:54.700 That shows you just how deep the loser theology goes for Baptists. 0.99

00:25:59.800 Think about this. 0.98

00:26:00.420 There are 10 times as many Baptists in our nation than Presbyterians. 0.74

00:26:05.520 And we still think that if we had a Christian nation,

00:26:07.980 that Baptists would be the ones who were persecuted. 0.94

00:26:11.820 Baptists have been committed to loser theology for so long, 0.94

00:26:15.340 even when we outnumber our brothers across the aisle, 0.75

00:26:20.220 10 to 1, we think if we became a Christian nation,

00:26:23.440 there's 10 times as many of us as there are of them, 1.00

00:26:26.640 and we would be in cages.

00:26:27.820 baptists are just fiercely committed to losing um i would like to think that nobody will be in cages

00:26:35.080 if anyone was it'd be the presbyterians we've got them outnumbered so uh you can tell dr white we 0.93

00:26:41.680 don't have to be we don't have to be as worried we've got the numbers on our side but he's right

00:26:45.420 in the sense that we we need to figure these things out and that's why i appreciate guys like

00:26:50.200 Doug Wilson saying that what we're advocating for is not a return to Christendom 1.0, but it's

00:26:57.560 learning from Christendom 1.0, which surely would be a radical improvement from secular humanism

00:27:04.800 quickly returning outright paganism. So it's certainly better than what we currently have. 0.53

00:27:10.540 But ideally, what we're rooting for, what we're working towards is not Christendom 1.0, but

00:27:15.740 christendom 2.0 we're working towards being able to say that there were really great things and

00:27:23.440 the things that weren't great about christendom in the past we're willing to say that those were

00:27:28.080 bugs rather than features the features were good and sure there were bugs but we don't throw the

00:27:35.240 baby out with the bath water so we are not tribalists we are not globalists we are nationalists

00:27:42.080 and i see no other alternative but to be christian nationalist it's either christian nationalist or

00:27:48.760 anti-christian nationalist jesus himself said a man is either for me or against me there is no

00:27:58.080 neutral ground and everything that has appeared in our recent history and it is recent by the way

00:28:04.540 in the big scheme of things everything in our recent history that has appeared as being neutral

00:28:10.440 a third option, is really only two diametrically opposed forms of worship slowly passing each other

00:28:18.740 by in the night. There's not a third option. There's just option one and option two, Christ

00:28:25.280 and chaos, and that brief moment as they're switching places. That's what makes you think

00:28:32.200 there's neutrality. That is only a moment. Christ departs even further, or rather we apostatize

00:28:39.240 from Christ even further paganism comes into port and actually lands and you quickly discover

00:28:47.700 that principle pluralism is an illusion it's a lie there's no such thing principle pluralism

00:28:57.320 for the record is simply a euphemism for polytheism that's all pluralism is it's polytheism

00:29:05.760 it is carving out a space for the worship of many gods hero israel your god is one

00:29:13.320 when we carve out a space for many gods rather than only one god then we are committing ourselves

00:29:20.440 to the worship of false gods there is only one god who is the true god if we worship as a nation

00:29:27.840 as a body politic more than one god then you have committed yourself to the worship of many

00:29:35.380 false gods so i see no way around christian nations and therefore we all as christians

00:29:44.240 must be you don't have to say christian nationalism you can change the language

00:29:49.320 you can be strategic you can be careful that's fine but at minimum you have to be able to at

00:29:54.660 least say this as a christian i am an advocate a proponent of seen christian nations maybe not

00:30:03.540 christian nationalism because i don't like the ism i get it but i am a proponent i am a proud

00:30:10.900 advocate of nations being christian because the nations are christ's inheritance and we see that

00:30:20.980 all throughout scripture so why am i a christian nationalist because it's true and it seems to be

00:30:27.840 the only option. But number two, because it's ecumenical, which is a scary word also. Ecumenical

00:30:35.460 can be good. It can go too far and be bad. But I mean it in this sense. It's ecumenical in the 0.94

00:30:42.820 sense that I believe it provides a big tent, or I would argue many different tents,

00:30:50.560 to work together with brothers and sisters in Christ who don't necessarily hold to all the

00:30:57.460 particular theological convictions that I do. There are many people right now, and so I'm speaking,

00:31:05.580 I'm getting, you know, practical here and personal here. I am still in the Baptist world. I'm still

00:31:12.080 a card-carrying Baptist, at least to some degree. Somebody posted a meme, it was really funny,

00:31:18.780 where I said, you know, as a Baptist, you should be thinking in these terms. And I say this as a

00:31:23.800 Baptist. And somebody posted like some meme that said, does anybody believe him at this point?

00:31:32.540 They said, and it was like a meme of some, I don't know, some actor that was clearly like 50 years

00:31:38.180 old. And he's wearing his hat backwards and he's sagging his jean shorts. And he's walking down

00:31:43.240 a hallway in a high school by the lockers. And he says, hello, fellow students. And he's like,

00:31:48.280 that's what Joel Webman is doing when he said, hello, fellow Baptist. It's like, nobody believes

00:31:52.340 you, dude. Nobody believes you. I am a Baptist. I am still currently a Baptist. I plan on staying

00:31:57.420 a Baptist. But one of the things that Wilson said in his blog and May blog recent, that time

00:32:06.980 Virginia flogged a Baptist. Did you guys read that one? It's really helpful. He ended with saying

00:32:12.800 this. Either Baptists need to do the work. They need to be able to carve out a theology, a 1.00

00:32:20.100 theological framework from a baptist perspective for engaging culture and changing the culture

00:32:27.140 and working towards christian nations a christian nationalist in that sense an advocate of working

00:32:32.840 towards christian nations so baptists either need to do the theological work for why a baptist can

00:32:38.180 do those things or or you need to leave off being a baptist stop being a baptist and he finished

00:32:48.460 with this line he said because at the end of the day you should care more about stopping the murder 0.54

00:32:54.680 of children than stopping the baptism of children and that's a good word for some of our baptist

00:33:03.780 brothers what is more important to you seeing babies not baptized or seeing babies not chopped

00:33:15.440 up into pieces now in doug wilson's defense he's saying he's pretty ecumenical that's part of the

00:33:24.900 reason why people hate doug wilson because they think he's too ecumenical but he's saying there

00:33:29.780 is a third option that baptists could do the work right so you don't just have to be a baptist who's

00:33:35.480 a pietist and doesn't care about winning the culture of christ whatsoever and you don't have

00:33:42.160 to be a Presbyterian who cares about culture. You could be a Baptist who cares about culture. Do the

00:33:49.340 work. And that's why I'm choosing to partner with other guys, writing, you know, and editing

00:33:56.180 statements like the statement on Christian nationalism and the gospel. The font could use

00:34:03.660 some work. But I'm committed to these kinds of things because here's the thing, back to, you

00:34:11.900 You know, see point A, previous point that I made.

00:34:15.040 There are 10 times as many Baptists as Presbyterians.

00:34:19.500 And part of my thinking in this moment, and I admit, it's strategic.

00:34:24.260 It is pragmatic.

00:34:25.960 Ultimately, the conviction must be exegetical.

00:34:28.200 I'm aware.

00:34:29.300 With that disclaimer having been made now in a strategic mindset, 0.55

00:34:33.740 I'm thinking, can I convince more Baptists to work towards Christian nations

00:34:40.960 than I can convince Baptists to become Presbyterians.

00:34:47.040 And I think to my Presbyterian brothers and sisters in the room,

00:34:51.560 try not to give the Baptists too hard of a time.

00:34:53.820 And you guys are usually good sports.

00:34:55.200 You usually, it seems like, at least for the most part, it's in jest.

00:34:59.620 I at least always feel that way.

00:35:00.680 I feel like you guys are kind towards me.

00:35:02.840 But keep pushing us.

00:35:05.300 Keep pushing us.

00:35:06.100 But here's the thing.

00:35:07.440 Push us to be Presbyterian because that's your conviction.

00:35:09.660 that's your conviction and so be honest about that that you don't have to apologize for that

00:35:13.540 if that's your conviction you see it in the scripture then then tell baptists you think

00:35:17.380 they're wrong that's okay we're allowed to say that we're allowed that we must be able to disagree

00:35:21.460 and say those things so do that praise god for that but even more than that even more than pushing 0.98

00:35:28.100 baptists to become presbyterian i encourage you to push baptists to stop being pietist

00:35:34.520 so more than trying to get baptist to be presbyterian first let's really get baptist to

00:35:41.080 stop being pietist and i think that biblically and i've been working on it but i think biblically

00:35:48.560 that the exegesis is there and that baptists actually can have a solid political theology

00:35:55.320 i think that with guys like john gill benjamin keach nehemiah cox old baptist recent baptists

00:36:04.040 are no help at all, but old Baptists, I think that you can have an engaging, culture-shaping,

00:36:12.220 Christian nation-forming Baptist theology. And yes, you can call nations Christian

00:36:19.960 as a Baptist. Everybody knows that we're not saying each and every individual person in the

00:36:27.620 entire nation is regenerate that is silly we need to stop being silly so i think that the work can

00:36:34.900 be done will it be as robust as the black robe regiment will the baptist political theology 0.85

00:36:42.880 100 years from now be a contender and appear to the westminster side of things

00:36:50.880 probably not probably not maybe but again baptists need a home and i don't want to just say it's it's

00:37:03.540 this is another illustration i've used it seems like presbyterians are over here on this plot of

00:37:07.660 land it's a nice plot of land and they've got a great old victorian house and then baptists we

00:37:14.440 picked a plot of land and we picked it like hundreds of years ago and we love it we're

00:37:19.820 committed to it and there's even a foundation there but for like four or five hundred years

00:37:24.960 nobody thought to actually build a house right so so we own our land it's beautiful land with a

00:37:32.260 beautiful foundation but we don't have that political theology and so then what happens

00:37:36.960 is this guy starts to see what's missing they go ahead and switch they move to Moscow

00:37:40.900 and I'm sympathetic I get it I get the temptation but there's work that I believe can be done it

00:37:48.160 won't be done the same way our covenant theology is different that's true but absolutely within a

00:37:55.400 biblical and baptistic framework seeing nations worship king jesus in a collective sense i believe

00:38:06.460 falls well within the boundaries of reform baptist 1689 federalism covenant theology

00:38:14.180 you so that's the goal so why am i saying i think i am a christian nationalist one because i don't

00:38:21.420 see any other option and i understand again i'm not saying you have to use the term but you get

00:38:25.820 what i'm saying either pagan nationalists or christian nationalists i'm not a tribalist i'm

00:38:29.640 not a globalist so i'm about christian nations i think it's true number two i think it's ecumenical

00:38:34.900 i want to help my baptist brothers and sisters engage politics and not just switch teams and

00:38:41.600 convince, you know, 14 of them to switch with me, while the rest remain Baptist and unengaged

00:38:49.220 Baptist. So if the dispensationalist want to prove that post-millennials have been right all along

00:38:57.460 about our eschatology by joining us in the fight and working towards Christian culture and

00:39:02.940 Christian nations, come along. God bless you. I'll partner with a dispensationalist.

00:39:11.600 But doctrine will always still matter.

00:39:14.920 Doctrine will always matter.

00:39:16.300 We're going to have the argument.

00:39:18.240 We must have the argument.

00:39:19.540 We must come to conclusions,

00:39:21.120 not just philosophically or pragmatically,

00:39:24.340 but exegetically.

00:39:26.460 And as Dr. White said earlier today,

00:39:28.380 for the record, Hebrews 8 is one of the biggest reasons

00:39:31.880 why I'm still a Baptist.

00:39:34.100 And I know you guys could probably,

00:39:36.660 you know, Joel, if I could just have 15 minutes with you,

00:39:38.840 I'd set you straight.

00:39:39.540 Well, a lot of people have spent more than 15 minutes with me, and I haven't been set straight yet,

00:39:43.740 which means the arguments are bad or I'm very dense, and I know that the latter is possible.

00:39:48.780 But all that being said, John chapter 8 is a profound argument.

00:39:55.500 And in my assessment, at least as it stands, the new covenant is not just bigger, but better.

00:40:01.920 And it's not just wider in its scope, but deeper in its promises.

00:40:06.560 It's actually founded upon better promises.

00:40:09.540 And not just the promises of the law being written on your hearts, because that is true. 0.74

00:40:15.160 But because the law was always written on the hearts of men, even pagan men, those who aren't

00:40:19.680 regenerate, it was written on Adam's heart. Ten commandments, moral commandments given to Adam,

00:40:24.660 written on the heart with one positive precept. In addition, that he not eat of the fruit of the

00:40:29.920 tree of the knowledge of good and evil. So all the way from our first parents, Adam and Eve,

00:40:34.380 you have the law written on their hearts. But in the new covenant, Ezekiel 36, it's the law

00:40:39.160 intensified upon the heart for the christian the conscience sharpened the holy spirit bringing

00:40:45.780 conviction of sin guiding them into all truth but it's not even just that it's not even just

00:40:51.400 the law written on the heart then the law magnified by the spirit but the bible says i will cause you

00:40:59.680 to walk in my ways. And I will put my fear, the fear of myself within you. I will actually put

00:41:09.760 the fear of myself within you. And I will cause you to walk in my ways. Not just I will put my

00:41:16.980 ways on your heart so that they're clearly seen. And then intensify them even more so they're more

00:41:23.140 clearly seen. But I'll actually work it out for you. I will actually cause you to walk in my ways

00:41:29.060 and I will put the fear of myself within you.

00:41:31.500 You cross-referenced that with other texts

00:41:33.340 like Romans chapter three.

00:41:34.720 With the wicked, there is no fear of God.

00:41:37.380 It's not that they have not enough fear of God

00:41:39.420 before their eyes or less fear of God,

00:41:41.080 but there is no fear of God before their eyes.

00:41:45.000 So I'm just, I'm trying to garnish a little sympathy

00:41:47.040 and just saying, here I stand, I can do no other. 1.00

00:41:51.040 And so Baptists need to get in the game. 0.96

00:41:54.640 We need to get in the game. 0.98

00:41:55.980 And I think we can.

00:41:56.940 i absolutely believe that biblically this is something that is possible now all that being

00:42:03.100 said big tent ecumenical i feel as though also no it's not whether but which we're either a

00:42:09.080 christian nationalist or pagan nationalist we've already covered that but doctrine still matters

00:42:13.900 and even though we can be ecumenical and we can partner with somebody who's dispensational we can

00:42:19.380 partner with uh with westminster and paedo you know infant baptism and credo baptism we could

00:42:24.860 even partner i believe at some level we can still partner whether it's kyperian or somebody who has

00:42:30.420 a classic two kingdom theology but eventually these debates will have to be had and i think

00:42:38.000 they need to be had now because they're going to be long debates they're going to have to be had

00:42:41.980 again and again and again and one of the problems that i'm already detecting from my baptist brothers

00:42:47.160 on the christian christian nationalist side of things is that a lot of them are not theonomist

00:42:54.480 not even a general equity theonomy and nothing nothing um they are they are thomas they put a

00:43:05.020 heavy emphasis on natural theology and the reason of man man's reason they think that that's enough

00:43:15.420 man was created in the image of god and despite the fall a vestige of the enemy

00:43:22.360 the vestige of the image of God still remains.

00:43:25.800 But that image, although remaining,

00:43:28.480 has been thoroughly tarnished.

00:43:30.580 That's the doctrine of total, not utter,

00:43:33.120 but total depravity.

00:43:36.020 That we still maintain the image of God,

00:43:38.440 but there's not one part of it

00:43:39.800 that hasn't been marred by sin.

00:43:44.600 Especially, not just including,

00:43:47.020 but especially including man's ability to reason.

00:43:52.360 So does God have two books, in a sense, in which He has spoken?

00:43:57.320 Has God spoken in special revelation?

00:44:00.000 Has God also spoken in natural revelation?

00:44:02.240 Does He declare something about Himself in the world that He has made?

00:44:06.020 Yes. The problem is that that book of natural revelation,

00:44:12.280 fallen man, is not good at reading.

00:44:16.360 Because of total depravity, man's reason is so marred

00:44:20.440 that even though God has spoken in natural revelation,

00:44:24.360 fallen man is illiterate, so to speak.

00:44:28.440 And can he somehow fumble along

00:44:31.100 and arrive at certain truths?

00:44:33.400 Sure, sure.

00:44:35.640 But even that, I want you just to consider this.

00:44:38.920 I'm throwing out some hypotheticals here.

00:44:40.600 Some of this is just, I'm not sure.

00:44:43.700 I'm not sure if this is definitively true.

00:44:45.920 I'm just, how I've been thinking about this

00:44:48.440 over the past few months.

00:44:50.440 I wonder if even unregenerate man in, because nobody's thinking or doing theology or doing

00:44:57.600 astrophysics or doing engineering or this or that. Nobody's doing anything in a vacuum.

00:45:03.760 We all within the province of God are in a particular context, in a particular time,

00:45:07.540 in a particular place. Don't you think at least it's possible that unregenerate people,

00:45:14.080 unbelievers would be able to to make greater innovations inventions and discoveries if the 1.00

00:45:24.400 context nobody's doing it in a vacuum if the context in which this atheist is is working

00:45:30.180 in the sciences and working in physics is on the heels of 1500 years of christendom

00:45:35.680 right because that's part of the temptation i think right now that's one of the reasons why

00:45:42.080 We give too much credence to classical liberalism.

00:45:44.940 And we give too much credence, this plays in with Thomism.

00:45:48.400 We give too much credence to man's reason, unregenerate man's reason.

00:45:52.720 I think unregenerate man reasons better in Christendom.

00:45:59.100 But what would, I was talking about this with one of the members of my church,

00:46:02.740 a friend, Wes, who's here tonight, Elon Musk.

00:46:07.000 He does some scary things, but he also does some good things.

00:46:09.620 but even if he had the exact iq the exact personality the exact intellect

00:46:16.400 but he was born before you know in japan before the 13th century

00:46:21.760 would he be making rocket ships or would he be like a samurai warlord raping and pillaging people

00:46:31.620 right that we've had genius genius pagans before

00:46:39.080 you see the genius pagans that we have today do some wonderful things one because they're made

00:46:47.200 in the image of god but two because this is an image bearer the image tarnished but the image

00:46:54.320 is still there a vestige of the image remains and it's an image bearer not in a vacuum but

00:47:00.280 immersed, that's a Baptist pun by the way, immersed in the Christian worldview. On the heels of

00:47:09.940 centuries of Christian thought, Christian architecture, Christian art, Christian painting,

00:47:17.040 Christian thinking, Christian science. Elon Musk is assuming all of that. He was born into it.

00:47:27.160 that's why the the titan intellect who's not regenerate is able to do so many wonderful 0.98

00:47:36.060 things we all know there's one reason why one reason is because even the unbeliever was created

00:47:41.020 in the image of god but i'm proposing a second reason that the unbeliever with a titan intellect

00:47:47.280 created in the image of god but still unregenerate an unbeliever he doesn't just do wonderful things

00:47:53.040 because he has God's image. But that unbeliever with God's image does especially wonderful things 0.98

00:47:59.900 when providentially he's born into Christian nations with Christian assumptions and Christian 0.76

00:48:09.180 systems of thought. But what happens if Christendom leaves? The thing that Baptists don't even believe

00:48:18.060 exists chrysidom what happens if it leaves and i mean fully leaves not just the two ships passing

00:48:24.160 in the night but what if chrysidom gets so far away we can't even see it anymore and this illusion

00:48:30.180 the parasite of secularism actually kills the host and if you know anything about host and 0.74

00:48:35.520 parasites once the host is dead the parasite dies too and the host that will replace chrysidom 0.97

00:48:42.280 is paganism did you know christian the christian worldview is not the only host in terms of

00:48:50.620 worldview christianity is not the only host it's the only indefinitely viable host it's the best

00:48:57.940 host the superior host but there are other hosts now not ironic at all totally makes sense other

00:49:06.780 host the thing that makes them at least somewhat viable is they steal from christianity so two

00:49:13.060 christian heresies islam and judaism they are viable not as viable as christianity but they

00:49:23.920 are viable because they're christian heresies judaism is a christian heresy it's not half of

00:49:31.820 the christian faith it's half of the christian faith the torah then misinterpreted through the

00:49:36.640 talmud and perverted and twisted and therefore a christian heresy 0.79

00:49:40.000 islam is a christian heresy but there's still some this you know remnants of christian thought 0.99

00:49:49.200 within it like for instance marriage is between a man and a woman and it's good to have kids

00:49:54.120 all right well that gives you some viability you've got some staying power secularism is a 0.89

00:50:01.760 parasite because it denies even that. It denies God's goodness and the distinction between men 0.94

00:50:07.240 and women. It denies the goodness of being fruitful and multiplying. That's why secularism doesn't

00:50:11.920 have any lasting power. That's why secularism is not what will replace Christianity. Secularism

00:50:18.700 may kill Christendom for a time, but what will replace it will be something else. Not secularism,

00:50:27.880 but something else maybe it's islam maybe it's judaism my bet again is on paganism at least

00:50:36.120 for many parts in the west so we need a big tent we need to be ecumenical we need to partner

00:50:42.460 together however we also still need to disagree along the way so i'll participate in a statement

00:50:48.580 like the statement on christian nationalism and the gospel but then i'll also less than a week

00:50:55.100 later host the theonomy and post-millennialism conference so that all my baptist brothers who

00:51:01.260 are fighting for christian nations so that they know i'm with you under the big tent but i live

00:51:08.360 in a particular strain theonomy and post-millennialism i i am working towards christian nations

00:51:16.800 but i am not doing it on the foundation of man's reason i'm not doing it with a pessimistic

00:51:24.740 eschatology i'm doing it with christ and a great post-millennial hope and i'm doing it by christ

00:51:35.660 namely by his law word his precepts his commandments in scripture in scripture

00:51:43.160 the easiest way that i can say it in terms of presuppositional and tomism these kinds of things

00:51:48.380 what i tell people all the time is you know i'm presuppositional and the short version is this

00:51:53.880 I believe God wrote a book, and we're allowed to use the book.

00:51:58.780 In fact, we're not only permitted, we must use the book.

00:52:02.540 And you can appeal to other authorities, because the book says there are other authorities.

00:52:06.740 But they're all lesser authorities.

00:52:09.080 That's what makes you ultimately, at the end of the day, presuppositional,

00:52:12.020 is that the final authority is this.

00:52:13.360 You don't say, because of the authority of logic, we can trust the Bible.

00:52:17.180 Because of the authority of sense perception, and because my senses are reliable,

00:52:21.440 we can therefore trust the Bible.

00:52:23.180 because of this certain, you know, archaeologist who discovered this over here. Therefore, we can

00:52:28.700 trust the resurrection, which ultimately gets us to Jesus being God. And then he says that the Bible

00:52:33.920 is the Bible. So now we can trust the Bible. No, what makes you presuppositional is not that you

00:52:38.260 just say, well, Romans 1, Romans 1, Romans 1. You can appeal to other authorities, but all of them

00:52:43.640 resting on the final authority. It's what's underneath. What's the final authority? The Bible

00:52:51.720 validates all these other authorities. These other authorities do not validate the Bible. The Bible

00:52:57.340 is self-authenticating. And I believe that ultimately that's the only view that's going to

00:53:04.480 last. Because anything other than that, that makes the Bible ultimately dependent on man's reason or

00:53:11.000 anything else, will eventually get us right back to the Enlightenment and right back to secularism.

00:53:17.080 so partner as much as we can with anyone i i want people to leave this conference

00:53:22.760 not with a sense of theological pride or superiority going back if you're not post-mail

00:53:28.660 my pastor's not post-mail so i'm immediately leaving my church i don't want that to be the

00:53:33.700 takeaway i want the takeaway to be look we want to see the nations praise king jesus that they

00:53:42.800 would flow to jesus and we know that this is a long project a long period but we can partner

00:53:49.460 with other christians that don't hold the exact same convictions and theologies as we do

00:53:54.120 and we're going to work with them we're going to be humble but we're also going to argue along the

00:54:00.600 way not a divisive kind of arguing a humble arguing but also not we're not relativist we

00:54:07.660 don't pretend that these things don't matter so christian nationalism i think it's a big tent i

00:54:13.760 think it's a label it's up to you and your conscience i'm not telling you what to do

00:54:17.060 but i think it's a label worth wearing and it allows us to partner with other christians

00:54:22.340 to change our nation to work towards that over time but at the same time we have to be able to

00:54:31.200 say to those christians i'm with you here but you need to switch what you believe over there

00:54:36.680 this is going to be a problem so that's the christian nationalism thing why am i committed

00:54:42.820 to christendom 2.0 and i'll land the plane very quickly why am i committed to christendom 2.0

00:54:49.020 well because we're not going to convince others to join us in this project

00:54:52.880 if we're dishonest about the failures of the last project

00:54:57.840 so you may not agree with this or agree with that well i don't think that this is a real term or i

00:55:05.880 don't think that's a real... Well, here's what we know for sure. There have been many serious abuses

00:55:14.320 in the name of Christ. So how is it persuasive? How is it persuasive to say

00:55:23.300 Christendom had no bugs, only features? The Spanish Inquisition is a myth, and it never happened.

00:55:31.760 that that's not persuasive it's it's actually far easier right thinking again i i think in terms of

00:55:39.880 winning which is a very it's that's a that's a novel way for a baptist to think but i i think

00:55:45.800 in terms of winning so i think what would persuade what what would be reasonable what could i get

00:55:52.400 someone on board with okay so so what's more persuasive to convince someone that christendom

00:55:57.940 1.0 had no abuses or to convince someone that christendom doesn't have to be done that way

00:56:04.460 again that christendom is good and that even christendom 1.0 is better than secular humanism

00:56:12.000 and 65 million murdered babies so to say it's not whether but which even christendom 1.0 is better

00:56:19.780 than what we currently have but here's the good news we're not even saying let's switch secularism

00:56:24.040 for christendom 1.0 we're saying let's switch secularism for christendom 2.0 and one of the

00:56:30.700 ways that we do that is with a separation of church and state and this is again some of the

00:56:36.620 confusion that people are you know well you're arguing for you know a conflation of church and

00:56:43.160 state we've said it multiple times during the conference i'm going to say it again so that you

00:56:47.340 remember remember this if anyone says you want you christian nationalists you theonomists you

00:56:52.320 post-mill guys, you want to conflate the state and the church. Say, no, no, no, no. We are not

00:56:57.900 proponents of an ecclesiocracy. That is a church-run state. We are not proponents of an 0.70

00:57:05.700 ecclesiocracy, but we are proponents of theocracy. Theocracy. So we don't want a church-run state,

00:57:15.420 ecclesiocracy, folding those two sovereign spheres, church and state together. But we are proponents

00:57:23.140 of theocracy, which is not church conflating into state, but it's Christ ruling over state.

00:57:34.180 Separation of church and state, yes. And I think you can biblically argue that. It's not just,

00:57:40.860 oh, it's a good idea and that, but that comes from our American tradition. No, I think

00:57:43.720 you can biblically argue it rod martin he says you know that even in genesis you see that the

00:57:48.840 scepter is given to judah but the priesthood is given to levi so even with the 12 tribes of israel

00:57:55.580 you don't have the ruling power and the levitical priestly power within the same tribe there is a

00:58:02.400 distinction but still both in israel so separation of church and state yes and amen i think it's

00:58:08.120 biblical i think it's right and i think it's one of the ways that you guard against christendom 2.0

00:58:12.940 having the same abuses of chrysidom 1.0 so assuage people's fears don't convince them

00:58:19.220 that chrysidom's never done any wrong don't pretend be honest about that and say yeah but

00:58:25.360 even that number one even that would be better than what we currently have you should be able

00:58:29.860 to get agreement on that if you're talking with a christian and then number two we're not even

00:58:34.020 saying go back to that we're saying go to this and work that out and one of the ways that we

00:58:38.220 work out the bugs of Christendom 1.0, as we usher in Christendom 2.0, is a separation of church and

00:58:44.680 state. No ecclesiocracy. However, no ecclesiocracy. Yes, inevitably, a theocracy. Theocracy means no

00:58:54.980 separation of Christ and state. Separation of church and state? Yes. Separation of Christ and

00:59:01.880 state. No, every government has a God. Again, not whether but which. And if it has no God above it,

00:59:11.300 then the government itself is God. The state is God, which again is a religion. It's a form of

00:59:19.540 worship. It's statism. So it's inevitable. It's not whether but which. It's not will there be a God

00:59:26.380 in government. It's simply what God will there be. So we're committed to theocracy.

00:59:35.860 The last question is this. Does God change his world from the top down or from the bottom up?

00:59:44.420 We need more regenerate hearts. We need a great move of the Spirit of God that may come in our

00:59:52.140 lifetime we work towards it we pray for it but it also may not come god is sovereign and he does

00:59:58.920 what he wills we need a great move of the spirit we need more conversion we need more regenerate

01:00:06.920 hearts and then we need those christians with numbers greater numbers than we currently have

01:00:12.740 to apply all of christ to all of life to not just be christians in the church and in their marriages

01:00:19.300 and their parenting and the home of the church,

01:00:21.220 but to be Christians in every single realm of society.

01:00:24.780 Christian in vocation, Christian in the arts

01:00:26.760 and entertainment and media,

01:00:28.260 and certainly in the civil magistrate.

01:00:30.560 We need young Christian men

01:00:32.420 not just to go to seminary to be pastors.

01:00:35.200 We need young Christian men

01:00:37.260 to actually want to be politicians, 1.00

01:00:40.500 as ugly as it might sound.

01:00:43.080 I believe it was Voddie Bakum who said this.

01:00:45.080 He said, you know, one of the problems

01:00:46.940 is that any time a church has a young man

01:00:49.700 who has an interest and a desire

01:00:52.220 and some gifting for theology,

01:00:55.360 the church can't help itself.

01:00:57.760 I mean, just not even the pastor of the church,

01:00:59.440 but just members of the church.

01:01:01.120 And they all are well-intended.

01:01:02.740 They're not trying to do anything harmful,

01:01:04.460 but they just tell that young man,

01:01:06.820 the Lord must have called you to be a pastor.

01:01:09.500 Because we can't even fathom the category

01:01:11.740 of a young man who loves theology

01:01:14.820 but isn't called to be a pastor.

01:01:18.460 Do you know what you're doing right there?

01:01:21.960 You're basically saying that Christians

01:01:24.760 who aren't called to vocational ministry

01:01:27.620 don't really need to be good at theology.

01:01:30.760 And that's what we've done.

01:01:32.680 We've done that for decades with young men.

01:01:34.900 We'll find young men who are successful.

01:01:38.020 They're gifted.

01:01:39.440 They're ambitious.

01:01:40.580 They're intelligent.

01:01:41.780 And they're godly.

01:01:43.600 They love the Lord.

01:01:44.820 And we found them as doctors.

01:01:47.260 We found them in media.

01:01:49.700 We found them in business.

01:01:52.060 And what do we do with them?

01:01:53.900 We tell them, you should sell your business.

01:01:57.340 You should quit your medical profession.

01:02:00.520 And you should go to seminary and be a pastor. 1.00

01:02:03.760 And now we say, Christians don't have any institutional power. 0.96

01:02:07.720 We lost all our institutions. 1.00

01:02:09.700 Yeah, you took your best guys out of them.

01:02:11.500 you took your most talented guys in those institutions and you told them if they really

01:02:18.680 loved jesus they'd be pastors because at the end of the day in your heart of hearts what you

01:02:25.600 actually believe is that the only institution that matters is the church and that has been

01:02:32.000 the dominant baptist assumption for quite a while and i believe it's wrong

01:02:39.240 i believe it's wrong the church as joe boot said the ecclesia the called out ones as it represents

01:02:48.860 individual people who make up christ's bride yeah that's nothing compares to that but the

01:02:56.800 church institute the institution of the church while radically important and vital

01:03:03.840 it is not the only thing that's important it does not have exclusive importance medicine matters

01:03:13.880 the home matters the arts matter academia matters and the civil magistrate caesar

01:03:23.720 he matters did you know john gill a baptist i might add john gill said this he and he's

01:03:32.560 referencing cross-referencing over this is in Joshua chapter I believe it's chapter 1 verse 11

01:03:37.420 his commentary he's cross-referencing over to 1st Timothy chapter 3 verse 1 it says he who desires

01:03:43.380 to be an elder an overseer a pastor desires a noble thing and he says in the same way that

01:03:49.740 desiring the office of an elder in the church is a noble desire so too he who desires to be an

01:03:57.320 officer in the state desires a noble thing that's john gill's position on christians in the civil

01:04:06.220 magistrate because he's talking about joshua's officers he gives the command to the officers

01:04:10.740 and then the officers go and tell the people the less it's the doctrine of the lesser magistrate

01:04:14.600 he's saying this is a noble thing as well

01:04:18.780 and that joshua would not have gotten very far if it wasn't for having lesser magistrates

01:04:26.380 godly officers to help him corral and lead the people we need christian men who are serious

01:04:34.120 about theology who want to do something besides just pastor we need pastors we need that too

01:04:41.180 but that's not all we need it's not all that we need so we need more regenerate hearts we need

01:04:47.840 more gospel preaching we need more churches planted but we also need more christians involved

01:04:53.120 in other spheres of society at large besides just the church institute. And all of that is bottom

01:05:00.200 up. But my conclusion for today is this. The sodomites with less than 3% of the population

01:05:10.340 in 40 years replaced the American flag with a rainbow. I'll say it one more time. The sodomites 0.98

01:05:18.740 with less than 3% of the population 0.94

01:05:22.060 in a matter of four to five decades tops

01:05:26.060 effectively replaced our national flag,

01:05:29.860 effectively, with the rainbow.

01:05:33.040 They did not have the numbers.

01:05:36.820 They did not have the numbers.

01:05:39.740 But man, were they influential.

01:05:43.040 And so I think it's both.

01:05:45.500 Not in a tyrannical sense,

01:05:47.400 not not not being domineering not being ungodly you do all this righteously but the reason why

01:05:56.500 i think we have to have the conversation is one because i think it's not either or i think it's

01:06:01.180 both both and it's bottom up massive move of the spirit massive regeneration we need more

01:06:06.140 regenerate hearts but two the regenerate hearts that we already have need to get in the fight

01:06:13.040 they need to be educated they need to be equipped they need to engage and we need to have an

01:06:21.980 understanding of these things right now because right now even if we don't have the numbers even

01:06:26.720 if we are the minority in this current moment in history right now there are christian christians

01:06:32.620 who are police officers and they're asking us how should we then live there are christians

01:06:42.700 who are city council members

01:06:43.860 asking the question,

01:06:44.980 how should we then live?

01:06:47.280 There are Christian mayors now. 1.00

01:06:49.600 Not just 500 years from now 1.00

01:06:51.200 with Christendom 2.0.

01:06:52.780 There are Christian mayors now.

01:06:54.520 Christian council members now.

01:06:56.340 Christian officers now.

01:06:59.520 My point is,

01:07:00.440 there are Christians

01:07:01.020 in the civil magistrate right now

01:07:02.960 asking the question,

01:07:04.760 how do I behave as a Christian

01:07:06.560 in civil government?

01:07:08.600 And we have to have a theology

01:07:10.120 for that.

01:07:11.240 even all the way back way before christendom was established in the very beginning the grassroots

01:07:17.740 when when the christians were far outnumbered in the days of john the baptist even then civil

01:07:24.500 magistrates from rome soldiers came to him and said what should we do and john the baptist had

01:07:31.160 an answer and his answer wasn't oh you're you're gonna do you're gonna repent and be baptized well

01:07:37.400 the Christian thing to do for those who repent and are baptized is you quit your civil magistrate

01:07:43.060 job. Stop being a soldier. That's not what he said. John the Baptist effectively, this is the 1.00

01:07:49.200 essence, the conclusion of what he said, is he said, you can be a Christian and work within the

01:07:54.540 civil magistrate. But you have to be, if you're a Christian, you have to work in the civil magistrate

01:08:00.220 Christianly. Christianly. And so we have to be able to give an answer. We have to be able to say, 0.83

01:08:07.400 this is what it's like today, not just 500 years from now, but right now. How does a Christian 0.99

01:08:13.180 use equal weights and measures? How are they impartial and blind when it comes to justice? 1.00

01:08:18.940 How are they proportional, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, life for life? That's why general equity,

01:08:25.660 theonomy, and these kinds of conversations, they matter. Not just that they matter for the 500-year

01:08:31.540 plan but they also matter for the five-year plan and we need to be committed to both let's pray

01:08:38.260 father god thank you thank you for the truth that you thank you for not abandoning us jesus said i

01:08:44.860 will not leave you as orphans but i will come to you and christ has come to us the spirit of the

01:08:51.880 risen christ has come to us who are in christ through faith by the indwelling ministry of the

01:08:57.740 Holy Spirit. Our body is now a temple of the Holy Spirit. And the Spirit reminds us of all that

01:09:04.260 Christ has said and guides us into truth and convicts us of sin. And the Holy Spirit doesn't

01:09:12.080 just do this to inform us how to walk out our 15 minute daily quiet time. But you are guiding us

01:09:23.180 into all truth,

01:09:24.200 leading us and reminding us

01:09:25.680 of the words of Christ

01:09:26.560 so that we may live them out

01:09:28.060 in every sphere of life,

01:09:30.460 even in the sphere of the state.

01:09:34.700 So, Father, help us, Lord.

01:09:37.660 Help us to believe

01:09:38.780 that your word is sufficient.

01:09:41.080 So much of this conversation

01:09:42.340 simply comes down

01:09:43.700 to the sufficiency of Scripture.

01:09:47.260 Do we believe that the word

01:09:49.020 is sufficient

01:09:49.900 for all of life and godliness?

01:09:52.460 Life is quite the category.

01:09:55.380 It's a big banner, life.

01:09:58.040 Surely life includes civil life, political life.

01:10:04.200 Help us to believe that your word is not just sufficient

01:10:07.040 in its ability to teach us of salvation

01:10:10.420 and how to go to heaven when we die.

01:10:14.160 That is vitally important.

01:10:16.360 But help us to believe that your word speaks to everything.

01:10:20.440 As Dr. Boots said, even stir-fry, or how to boil an egg.

01:10:25.560 And if your word does address even Christian cooking, 0.82

01:10:28.440 then there is such a thing.

01:10:30.720 And certainly it addresses Christian governing.

01:10:34.300 And help us as Christians to have an answer.

01:10:38.380 An answer from the Scripture that doesn't say murder should be illegal,

01:10:43.520 theft should be illegal, but these other things aren't.

01:10:46.780 And it's because at the end of the day, the standard is it seems right.

01:10:51.740 Or it's just what we've done ever since I've been alive in America.

01:10:56.840 And we need to be able to point to the Bible.

01:10:59.940 And when someone says, well, you're pointing to these verses, why not those? 0.61

01:11:04.780 Then we need to be able to confess that we're being hypocritical.

01:11:09.080 And that God's standard is actually not just just, but it's also compassionate.

01:11:14.860 it is compassionate as joe said last night prison is not compassionate it's not humane

01:11:21.440 we are so deceived and so warped we need your help so god we do pray right now i pray

01:11:27.640 for a massive move of your spirit that there would be revival and regeneration across our land and

01:11:35.240 our nation and all over the world we pray for it lord we plead with you that you might turn the

01:11:41.860 hearts of the people back to you. But Lord, we also pray that as we wait for that, that Christians

01:11:51.300 now, saved by your grace today, that we would be faithful in every realm and that we would seek to

01:11:58.040 apply all of Christ to all of life. And not just speaking in the hypothetical for 500 years from

01:12:05.760 now but what we're going to do on monday help us god it's a massive project it's going to require

01:12:13.620 massive wisdom learning and humility help us to be humble lord help us to work with those we

01:12:22.560 disagree with as much as we can but also while maintaining that doctrine matters we pray it all

01:12:30.660 in jesus name it's a tall order but you are a faithful god in jesus name amen all right

01:12:39.460 we'll see you guys tomorrow morning for the lord's day 10 a.m

The NXR Podcast - June 17, 2023

CONFERENCE - Battle Plans For Establishing A New Christendom - Pastor Joel Webbon

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