CONFERENCE - Battle Plans For Establishing A New Christendom - Pastor Joel Webbon
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 12 minutes
Words per minute
148.42238
Harmful content
Misogyny
1
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Toxicity
19
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Hate speech
62
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Summary
In this episode of Right Response Conference, Pastor Doug Wilson talks about the conference, what it's all about, and why you don't want to miss it. Join us March 1st-3rd, 2024, as we explore the 7 doctrines for ruling the world.
Transcript
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All right, hold up. You're not going to want to miss this. I'm going to tell you exactly how our
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spring 2024 conference is going to go down. Here's the title of the conference. Blueprints
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for Christendom 2.0. Subtitle, Seven Doctrines for Ruling the World. We're going to have seven
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primary sessions covering each of these doctrines for ruling the world righteously. Number one,
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Reformed Confessionalism. That's going to be Pastor Doug Wilson preaching on that topic.
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Then we've got Covenant Theology with Pastor Brian Sauve.
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Then we've got Biblical Patriarchy with Pastor Michael Foster.
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Then we've got Presuppositionalism with Dr. Joseph Boot.
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Then we've got Kuyperianism, All of Christ for All of Life, where we're going to welcome
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We're going to have Dr. Joseph Boot come and do a second session on that topic.
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And then lastly, we'll have Pastor Dale Partridge on post-millennial eschatology.
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In addition to these seven sessions, we're also going to have not one, but two live podcasts.
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On the first day of the conference, that's Friday, March 1st, we're going to have a live
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I'll be on the stage hosting the discussion with Douglas Wilson, Michael Foster, and Eric
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The topic is going to be all about biblical patriarchy.
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We're going to specifically be parsing out, distinguishing the biblical doctrinal differences
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Again, that's Friday, March 1st, the first day of the conference, a live theology applied
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Then we're going to have the next day, that's Saturday, March 2nd, a live haunted cosmos
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I'll be hosting this discussion with Brian Sauve and Ben Garrett.
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We're going to be talking about what creatures currently are living underneath the surface
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It's going to be weird, but it will also be thoroughly biblical and incredibly unhinged.
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So you're not going to want to miss these two live podcasts, Theology Applied, on Friday,
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March 1st, the first day of the conference on biblical patriarchy with Doug Wilson, Michael
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And then the next day of the conference, Saturday, March 2nd, a live Haunted Cosmos podcast with
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Brian Sauve and Ben Garrett and myself on the Nephilim, the Watchers, and what lies under
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the surface of the earth. And then the conference will hold over for one final, the third and final
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day. That's going to be the Lord's Day, Sunday, March 3rd, where one of our speakers will be
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holding over to preach the Lord's Day sermon, and I'll be leading us in worship through the liturgy.
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So we've got three days, a Friday, Saturday, Sunday, March 1st, 2nd, and 3rd of 2024,
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blueprints for Christendom 2.0, seven doctrines for ruling the world.
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You're not going to want to miss this conference.
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Our early bird rate is still available, but only for a very short period of time.
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We are ending the early bird rate on August 31st at 1159 p.m.
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That will be the final chance to get into this conference at an affordable, cheap rate.
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all right so go and take advantage of the early bird rate right now by going to right response
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conference.com again that's right response conference.com to register for blueprints
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for chrissidom 2.0 march 1st 2nd and 3rd 2024 register today so many of you are probably already
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aware of this but i've been in a little bit of a debate lately online and offline and pretty much
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every realm of my life about Christian nationalism, and I addressed some of that in my manifesto,
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for lack of a better label, when we opened the conference yesterday afternoon. But I thought
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that it might be helpful to go through a little bit of my thinking on this and how it relates to
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post-millennialism, how it relates to general equity theonomy, talk a little bit about Christendom,
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talk about theocracy. One of the questions that I want to address this evening is
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top down versus bottom up? That's one of the questions that I've seen people asking this
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post-millennial theonomic chrysidom. Is it just coercion? Is it just from the top down or is it
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from the bottom up? I think it's both. Spoiler alert, but we will talk about that. So basically
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my goal is, by God's grace, to be really practical, to answer, I think, a lot of questions,
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not just this is post-millennialism or this is theonomy but getting into a little bit of the
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weeds in terms of how these things might actually play out that's my goal I'm sure I'll do it
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imperfectly but I'm going to try so let's go ahead and start with prayer father God I pray that you
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would empower me by your spirit Lord that you would grant me wisdom that you would grant me
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grace that you would use me to the edification of your people that i would be helpful and that we
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would grow that we would be equipped and that we would be better positioned to live faithful lives
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of obedience out of love for christ we pray these things in jesus name amen all right so i am a
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Christian nationalist. Why am I a Christian nationalist? Number one, because it's true.
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The way that I think about it is this, and you've heard other people say it, but I think they're
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right. I don't feel as though we really have a choice, right? You have three primary categories
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and six total categories. If you consider the fact that underneath each of these three
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primary categories, there are actually two subcategories. The three primary categories
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are as follows. Tribalism, nationalism, globalism. I'm not a globalist. I am not a tribalist.
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I am a nationalist. Now, I understand some of the problems with the ism, as Dr. Boot was talking
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about. Isms are usually a bit dangerous. Femininity, wonderful. Feminism, terrible. So isms usually
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come in and wreck things. So if you want to get rid of the ism and just say, you know, Christian
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nationalist or an advocate for Christian nations, that's fine. But I don't think there's any
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escaping this category of nations, right? That it's not just being tribal and it's certainly not
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a one world order. I'm not a fan of Soros, right? So that's not the direction that the Bible points
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towards we see in acts chapter 17 that nations are affirmed by god they're good they're his idea
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and they're appointed by him both their borders and their times god causes nations to rise he
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causes nations to fall to be decimated nations the bible speaks of nations in terms of the nation
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that honors the lord that fears the lord will be exalted and the nation that does not fear the lord
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but rebels against him will be brought low it will be destroyed so nations are god's idea and
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i do believe that god he works in nations he exalts them because of faithfulness to christ
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not some abstract moral goodness that's somehow separate from christian goodness there's only one
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kind of true goodness christ is the standard his word is the standard if it's not christian
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it's not moral. If it's not Christian, it's not moral. So nations that are moral, that are good
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nations, are nations that are Christian. And they're either explicitly Christian, which they
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should be. That's the best case scenario. But at worst, they might be moral in some aspects, in some
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regard, but still, while not explicitly acknowledging Christ, they're still at least borrowing from
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Christ. That's what Greg Bonson would say. You know, the atheist can only get up and debate
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a Christian apologist by borrowing from the Christian's worldview. He assumes for a debate
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to even make sense that logic exists. And the atheist worldview can't account for logic. Why
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would there be laws of logic if all of creation isn't actually creation, but it's just physical
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matter that randomly came about over billions and billions of years, just little lizard people
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crawling out of some kind of soup that eventually became this and eventually became that. There is
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no logic to that. That's chaotic. And I think everyone in the room would agree with that. I
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think I'd be willing to bet pretty much everybody here is a six-day literal creationist. I said this
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during our q a or at some point but i said that i there's it's the same kind of principle the same
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principle that we that we heartedly receive and accept as christians when it comes to creation
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that god gradually and systematically intentionally created the world not just in one moment not even
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in one day but over six days he progressively creates the world and he distinguishes he
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separates night right light from darkness he separates land from water and then God fills
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right so he's he's creating he's bringing a sense of order to the chaos the spirit is hovering
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brooding above the waters the earth is without form it's void God creates then he he distinguishes
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he separates, right? He categorizes orders, and then he fills. He fills the land with beasts of
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the field. He fills the ocean. It's teeming with life and with fish. And God does all of this
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strategically, progressively, gradually. That is, in an eschological framework, that is the
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post-millennial position. It's saying that he knows the end from the beginning. He's decreed it all,
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And it's all going to come about. But one of the things that God has decreed in this glorious plan from creation all the way to consummation is that Jesus will inherit as his reward for his obedience to the father.
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His reward, his inheritance, is nations. Nations are his inheritance. It's not just an abstract, monolithic world.
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It's not a one world order, but it's actually multiple different nations.
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And it's not just multiple different ethnicities in one world order without borders, because we have love in our hearts.
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And so in that sense, I don't know how to get around the fact that we are as Christians.
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If we have a Christian worldview, we believe in the innate goodness of God's plan of nations.
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So we are nationalists in that sense, certainly more than we are globalists and certainly
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So the next question is, do you hold to Christian nations or pagan nations?
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And I think this is part of the problem within evangelicalism
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is because we still have good brothers in Christ
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They have not yet fully come to terms, not consistently.
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the myth of neutrality secularism it's important that we understand that secular humanism is merely
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a placeholder and it was always meant to be a placeholder secularism is not a viable worldview
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if we think in terms of hosts and parasites secularism would be a parasite it's not a host
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Secularism only appears, it only has the mere temporary optic of viability and strength,
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so long as it's attached to a viable host.
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The host has been, for the last several hundred years, for this parasite of secularism,
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the host has been the Christian worldview.
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and i think in many ways that's the reason why secularism has appeared and it's only a thin
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veneer not in an objective sense it does not work but in terms of mere appearances secularism has
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appeared to work not just for a few years or even a few decades secularism has appeared to be a
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viable sustainable options for such a long time because as a parasite it attached itself to such
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a viable host. There's no stronger host in all the universe than Christendom. There's no stronger
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host than the Christian worldview. And it wasn't just that secularism attached itself to Christendom
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after Christendom had had a 30-year reign, right? Or a 300-year reign. But very arguably, the case
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can be made that the chrysidom had a 1500 year reign if you start with constantine you can then
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start with king alfred that would be about a thousand years from now and then certainly with
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england and the covenanters and the puritans the founders with america so no matter how you slice
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it we're talking about centuries not decades certainly not years but centuries 500 would be
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the minimum time frame of chrysidom but i think easily could be argued in terms of 1500 years
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so people will say what's the problem what's the problem with classical liberalism
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what's the problem it's worked well you you're saying that this is a parasite that it's not
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viable how could something that's not viable work for 100 years 150 years 200 years
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Well, if it's coming on the heels of something that existed for 1,500 years, then even a 200-year-old parasite can still appear viable if it's attached and gaining its life source from a 1,500-year-old host, namely Christodom.
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so all that being said one of the illustrations that i've used in the past is that christendom
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and paganism not secularism hear me now christendom and paganism are like two massive ships
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one is departing it's leaving the docks and that would be christendom the other is coming into port
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to replace him that would be not secularism but paganism now these are old ships paganism
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secularism is relatively new paganism is old chrysidom is old two very large ships and very
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old ships and therefore work with me with my illustration here very slow ships and there
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was a moment as Christendom is receding, and paganism is coming in to take its place, where
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these two ships in the night are passing by one another. And they didn't just pass by one another
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for 15 minutes, but arguably for 150 years. And as Christendom was on its way out, paganism on its
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way in, the tides receding with Christendom and paganism, the old gods, Chris Wiley, Glenn
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Sunshine, some of those guys have talked about this, coming back in, it gave this momentary,
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a long moment, albeit from our perspective of people who live approximately 70, 80, 90
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years, it seemed long to us, multiple generations, but still momentary.
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in the big scheme of things in human history a very momentary optic veneer appearance of
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neutrality secularism secularism is viable no it only appears viable because paganism
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has not yet landed not fully and chrysidom has not yet left not fully and because chrysidom
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we can still see it from the dock goodbye chrysidom please come back chrysidom because it's still
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in sight we can still see it we still have some of the supplies that it dropped off for us we're
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still eating from that living off of that because chrysidom is still within our sights and paganism
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is within our sights as well but is not fully landed it gave this optic this appearance that
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secularism was actually a viable, in fact, a very tolerant and compassionate and loving
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worldview. In fact, better than Christodom. The more humanitarian, the more kind, loving worldview.
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In fact, if Christians, if they insist upon the Christian worldview and explicitly Christian
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nations instead of secular nations then christians are actually being jerks they're actually being
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rude oh why not just share religious freedom with others why not just carve out spaces for
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for this thought and that ritual and this custom in that culture right principled pluralism
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Principled pluralism brought you drag queen story hour.
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And that is the logical, inevitable end of secularism.
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Right back to ultimately the old gods of paganism.
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We often think of abortion and liken it to Molech.
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all right child sacrifice and i think that that is an accurate correlation a one correlation that
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is not made nearly as often is in terms of transgenderism and the asherah poles i believe
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it was the hardest voss actually who talked about this and said that the asherah poles were once
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trees makes me think of tolkien uh and the the you know the uh two towers and eisenhower and you
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know it's very integral to uproot the trees the old trees bring them down tear them down right
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which ultimately is used to anger the ants right and the ants finally come in into battle but but
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trees were integral. The trees are, they represent fruitfulness. They represent life. They also
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represent shelter, protection, right? This mustard seed that grows into a tree, the beast of the field
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finds shade and rust under it. The birds of the air are able to rest and perch in its branches.
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So trees, they not only provide a source of life and food from fruitfulness, but also shelter.
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It's provision and protection. You could argue both provision from its fruit and protection
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from its shade. Trees are life-giving. Well, the Asherah pole were once trees, but they were
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stripped of all their branches, of all their leaves, of all their fruit, stripped down into
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androgynous, sane, bland, naked poles. And those are two of the sacraments that we find
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in our culture today. The sacrament, it is worship, it is a religion. The sacrament of child
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sacrifice, an abortion, think Molech, but also the sacrament of transgenderism. I think Asherah
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disciples fruitlessness androgyny dead lifeless naked bare now these in one sense we could argue
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are the logical and inevitable end of secularism in the other sense though we could also argue that
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these are very very similar if not exact with old forms of paganism is transgenderism is abortion
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are these kinds of things, sexual confusion, androgyny, feminism, goddess worship,
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worshiping women, are these things merely, this is the question that I'm asking,
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are they merely the logical end of a secular humanist worldview?
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Or are they actually the introduction, the reintroduction of old pagan views?
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is it a coincidence right because because that's the excuse that's the answer that's the response
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it's always given is we were joking we're just joking you christians you just you're so serious
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you make everything religious really because because there's a certain point where it's like
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this is there are so many coincidences that i think there might be something of substance here
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is it just a coincidence that the grammys or the oscars or whatever it was this satanic
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performance? Is it just a coincidence that you actually have, you know, you're tearing down
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statues of the founders, but erecting statues of old pagan gods, right? We've moved past religion.
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We're superior to Neanderthal primitive people that still need a god. Okay, well,
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science has replaced that. Sure, that's what you say. Neutrality has replaced it. Sure, that's what
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you say. But then how come the further we go down this road of secularism, the more religious you
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become? You're saying secularism was always meant to just replace religion because it holds you
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back, because it's intolerant, because it's divisive. But we bought, and when I say we, I mean
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the evangelical church over decades now we bought that lie we chose to play ball but what has
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happened is not just the removal of christian religions but their replacement with false
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religions minneapolis now has a public call to islamic prayer in american city five times a day
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you've got to carve out a spot for the Muslim.
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would a Christian nation, particularly America,
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require that we get rid of the Constitution?
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we would not have to get rid of the Constitution.
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but what it would require is that we become true constitutionalist in the sense that we get back
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to authorial intent that the constitution is not a living document it doesn't evolve and change with
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each generation the founders they were not saying freedom of religion to mean you know we just
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really hope one day our great great great grandchildren will have muslim sirens five
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times a day in their city that was not even on their radar when they say freedom of religion
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what they're talking about is denominational battles within the christian faith they're
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talking about carving out a spot for multiple different expressions not of other religions
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but the one true religion, the Christian religion,
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It's what Dr. White has mentioned being concerned about.
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I still don't really like this word Christendom
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and Presbyterians weren't really nice to Baptists.
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That's, I believe, what the founders had in mind in terms of freedom of religion, not false religion, but different expressions of worship with our one common Lord is some of the language that is used even in the Westminster and other early documents.
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So, no, I don't think that the Constitution would have to be rewritten.
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One word real quick on just Presbyterians persecuting Baptists.
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That shows you just how deep the loser theology goes for Baptists.
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There are 10 times as many Baptists in our nation than Presbyterians.
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And we still think that if we had a Christian nation,
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that Baptists would be the ones who were persecuted.
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Baptists have been committed to loser theology for so long,
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even when we outnumber our brothers across the aisle,
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10 to 1, we think if we became a Christian nation,
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there's 10 times as many of us as there are of them,
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baptists are just fiercely committed to losing um i would like to think that nobody will be in cages
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if anyone was it'd be the presbyterians we've got them outnumbered so uh you can tell dr white we
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don't have to be we don't have to be as worried we've got the numbers on our side but he's right
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in the sense that we we need to figure these things out and that's why i appreciate guys like
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Doug Wilson saying that what we're advocating for is not a return to Christendom 1.0, but it's
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learning from Christendom 1.0, which surely would be a radical improvement from secular humanism
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quickly returning outright paganism. So it's certainly better than what we currently have.
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But ideally, what we're rooting for, what we're working towards is not Christendom 1.0, but
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christendom 2.0 we're working towards being able to say that there were really great things and
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the things that weren't great about christendom in the past we're willing to say that those were
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bugs rather than features the features were good and sure there were bugs but we don't throw the
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baby out with the bath water so we are not tribalists we are not globalists we are nationalists
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and i see no other alternative but to be christian nationalist it's either christian nationalist or
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anti-christian nationalist jesus himself said a man is either for me or against me there is no
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neutral ground and everything that has appeared in our recent history and it is recent by the way
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in the big scheme of things everything in our recent history that has appeared as being neutral
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a third option, is really only two diametrically opposed forms of worship slowly passing each other
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by in the night. There's not a third option. There's just option one and option two, Christ
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and chaos, and that brief moment as they're switching places. That's what makes you think
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there's neutrality. That is only a moment. Christ departs even further, or rather we apostatize
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from Christ even further paganism comes into port and actually lands and you quickly discover
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that principle pluralism is an illusion it's a lie there's no such thing principle pluralism
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for the record is simply a euphemism for polytheism that's all pluralism is it's polytheism
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it is carving out a space for the worship of many gods hero israel your god is one
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when we carve out a space for many gods rather than only one god then we are committing ourselves
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to the worship of false gods there is only one god who is the true god if we worship as a nation
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as a body politic more than one god then you have committed yourself to the worship of many
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false gods so i see no way around christian nations and therefore we all as christians
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must be you don't have to say christian nationalism you can change the language
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you can be strategic you can be careful that's fine but at minimum you have to be able to at
00:29:54.660
least say this as a christian i am an advocate a proponent of seen christian nations maybe not
00:30:03.540
christian nationalism because i don't like the ism i get it but i am a proponent i am a proud
00:30:10.900
advocate of nations being christian because the nations are christ's inheritance and we see that
00:30:20.980
all throughout scripture so why am i a christian nationalist because it's true and it seems to be
00:30:27.840
the only option. But number two, because it's ecumenical, which is a scary word also. Ecumenical
00:30:35.460
can be good. It can go too far and be bad. But I mean it in this sense. It's ecumenical in the
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sense that I believe it provides a big tent, or I would argue many different tents,
00:30:50.560
to work together with brothers and sisters in Christ who don't necessarily hold to all the
00:30:57.460
particular theological convictions that I do. There are many people right now, and so I'm speaking,
00:31:05.580
I'm getting, you know, practical here and personal here. I am still in the Baptist world. I'm still
00:31:12.080
a card-carrying Baptist, at least to some degree. Somebody posted a meme, it was really funny,
00:31:18.780
where I said, you know, as a Baptist, you should be thinking in these terms. And I say this as a
00:31:23.800
Baptist. And somebody posted like some meme that said, does anybody believe him at this point?
00:31:32.540
They said, and it was like a meme of some, I don't know, some actor that was clearly like 50 years
00:31:38.180
old. And he's wearing his hat backwards and he's sagging his jean shorts. And he's walking down
00:31:43.240
a hallway in a high school by the lockers. And he says, hello, fellow students. And he's like,
00:31:48.280
that's what Joel Webman is doing when he said, hello, fellow Baptist. It's like, nobody believes
00:31:52.340
you, dude. Nobody believes you. I am a Baptist. I am still currently a Baptist. I plan on staying
00:31:57.420
a Baptist. But one of the things that Wilson said in his blog and May blog recent, that time
00:32:06.980
Virginia flogged a Baptist. Did you guys read that one? It's really helpful. He ended with saying
00:32:12.800
this. Either Baptists need to do the work. They need to be able to carve out a theology, a
1.00
00:32:20.100
theological framework from a baptist perspective for engaging culture and changing the culture
00:32:27.140
and working towards christian nations a christian nationalist in that sense an advocate of working
00:32:32.840
towards christian nations so baptists either need to do the theological work for why a baptist can
00:32:38.180
do those things or or you need to leave off being a baptist stop being a baptist and he finished
00:32:48.460
with this line he said because at the end of the day you should care more about stopping the murder
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00:32:54.680
of children than stopping the baptism of children and that's a good word for some of our baptist
00:33:03.780
brothers what is more important to you seeing babies not baptized or seeing babies not chopped
00:33:15.440
up into pieces now in doug wilson's defense he's saying he's pretty ecumenical that's part of the
00:33:24.900
reason why people hate doug wilson because they think he's too ecumenical but he's saying there
00:33:29.780
is a third option that baptists could do the work right so you don't just have to be a baptist who's
00:33:35.480
a pietist and doesn't care about winning the culture of christ whatsoever and you don't have
00:33:42.160
to be a Presbyterian who cares about culture. You could be a Baptist who cares about culture. Do the
00:33:49.340
work. And that's why I'm choosing to partner with other guys, writing, you know, and editing
00:33:56.180
statements like the statement on Christian nationalism and the gospel. The font could use
00:34:03.660
some work. But I'm committed to these kinds of things because here's the thing, back to, you
00:34:11.900
You know, see point A, previous point that I made.
00:34:15.040
There are 10 times as many Baptists as Presbyterians.
00:34:19.500
And part of my thinking in this moment, and I admit, it's strategic.
00:34:29.300
With that disclaimer having been made now in a strategic mindset,
0.55
00:34:33.740
I'm thinking, can I convince more Baptists to work towards Christian nations
00:34:40.960
than I can convince Baptists to become Presbyterians.
00:34:47.040
And I think to my Presbyterian brothers and sisters in the room,
00:34:51.560
try not to give the Baptists too hard of a time.
00:34:55.200
You usually, it seems like, at least for the most part, it's in jest.
00:35:07.440
Push us to be Presbyterian because that's your conviction.
00:35:09.660
that's your conviction and so be honest about that that you don't have to apologize for that
00:35:13.540
if that's your conviction you see it in the scripture then then tell baptists you think
00:35:17.380
they're wrong that's okay we're allowed to say that we're allowed that we must be able to disagree
00:35:21.460
and say those things so do that praise god for that but even more than that even more than pushing
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00:35:28.100
baptists to become presbyterian i encourage you to push baptists to stop being pietist
00:35:34.520
so more than trying to get baptist to be presbyterian first let's really get baptist to
00:35:41.080
stop being pietist and i think that biblically and i've been working on it but i think biblically
00:35:48.560
that the exegesis is there and that baptists actually can have a solid political theology
00:35:55.320
i think that with guys like john gill benjamin keach nehemiah cox old baptist recent baptists
00:36:04.040
are no help at all, but old Baptists, I think that you can have an engaging, culture-shaping,
00:36:12.220
Christian nation-forming Baptist theology. And yes, you can call nations Christian
00:36:19.960
as a Baptist. Everybody knows that we're not saying each and every individual person in the
00:36:27.620
entire nation is regenerate that is silly we need to stop being silly so i think that the work can
00:36:34.900
be done will it be as robust as the black robe regiment will the baptist political theology
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00:36:42.880
100 years from now be a contender and appear to the westminster side of things
00:36:50.880
probably not probably not maybe but again baptists need a home and i don't want to just say it's it's
00:37:03.540
this is another illustration i've used it seems like presbyterians are over here on this plot of
00:37:07.660
land it's a nice plot of land and they've got a great old victorian house and then baptists we
00:37:14.440
picked a plot of land and we picked it like hundreds of years ago and we love it we're
00:37:19.820
committed to it and there's even a foundation there but for like four or five hundred years
00:37:24.960
nobody thought to actually build a house right so so we own our land it's beautiful land with a
00:37:32.260
beautiful foundation but we don't have that political theology and so then what happens
00:37:36.960
is this guy starts to see what's missing they go ahead and switch they move to Moscow
00:37:40.900
and I'm sympathetic I get it I get the temptation but there's work that I believe can be done it
00:37:48.160
won't be done the same way our covenant theology is different that's true but absolutely within a
00:37:55.400
biblical and baptistic framework seeing nations worship king jesus in a collective sense i believe
00:38:06.460
falls well within the boundaries of reform baptist 1689 federalism covenant theology
00:38:14.180
you so that's the goal so why am i saying i think i am a christian nationalist one because i don't
00:38:21.420
see any other option and i understand again i'm not saying you have to use the term but you get
00:38:25.820
what i'm saying either pagan nationalists or christian nationalists i'm not a tribalist i'm
00:38:29.640
not a globalist so i'm about christian nations i think it's true number two i think it's ecumenical
00:38:34.900
i want to help my baptist brothers and sisters engage politics and not just switch teams and
00:38:41.600
convince, you know, 14 of them to switch with me, while the rest remain Baptist and unengaged
00:38:49.220
Baptist. So if the dispensationalist want to prove that post-millennials have been right all along
00:38:57.460
about our eschatology by joining us in the fight and working towards Christian culture and
00:39:02.940
Christian nations, come along. God bless you. I'll partner with a dispensationalist.
00:39:28.380
for the record, Hebrews 8 is one of the biggest reasons
00:39:36.660
you know, Joel, if I could just have 15 minutes with you,
00:39:39.540
Well, a lot of people have spent more than 15 minutes with me, and I haven't been set straight yet,
00:39:43.740
which means the arguments are bad or I'm very dense, and I know that the latter is possible.
00:39:48.780
But all that being said, John chapter 8 is a profound argument.
00:39:55.500
And in my assessment, at least as it stands, the new covenant is not just bigger, but better.
00:40:01.920
And it's not just wider in its scope, but deeper in its promises.
00:40:09.540
And not just the promises of the law being written on your hearts, because that is true.
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But because the law was always written on the hearts of men, even pagan men, those who aren't
00:40:19.680
regenerate, it was written on Adam's heart. Ten commandments, moral commandments given to Adam,
00:40:24.660
written on the heart with one positive precept. In addition, that he not eat of the fruit of the
00:40:29.920
tree of the knowledge of good and evil. So all the way from our first parents, Adam and Eve,
00:40:34.380
you have the law written on their hearts. But in the new covenant, Ezekiel 36, it's the law
00:40:39.160
intensified upon the heart for the christian the conscience sharpened the holy spirit bringing
00:40:45.780
conviction of sin guiding them into all truth but it's not even just that it's not even just
00:40:51.400
the law written on the heart then the law magnified by the spirit but the bible says i will cause you
00:40:59.680
to walk in my ways. And I will put my fear, the fear of myself within you. I will actually put
00:41:09.760
the fear of myself within you. And I will cause you to walk in my ways. Not just I will put my
00:41:16.980
ways on your heart so that they're clearly seen. And then intensify them even more so they're more
00:41:23.140
clearly seen. But I'll actually work it out for you. I will actually cause you to walk in my ways
00:41:45.000
So I'm just, I'm trying to garnish a little sympathy
00:41:47.040
and just saying, here I stand, I can do no other.
1.00
00:41:56.940
i absolutely believe that biblically this is something that is possible now all that being
00:42:03.100
said big tent ecumenical i feel as though also no it's not whether but which we're either a
00:42:09.080
christian nationalist or pagan nationalist we've already covered that but doctrine still matters
00:42:13.900
and even though we can be ecumenical and we can partner with somebody who's dispensational we can
00:42:19.380
partner with uh with westminster and paedo you know infant baptism and credo baptism we could
00:42:24.860
even partner i believe at some level we can still partner whether it's kyperian or somebody who has
00:42:30.420
a classic two kingdom theology but eventually these debates will have to be had and i think
00:42:38.000
they need to be had now because they're going to be long debates they're going to have to be had
00:42:41.980
again and again and again and one of the problems that i'm already detecting from my baptist brothers
00:42:47.160
on the christian christian nationalist side of things is that a lot of them are not theonomist
00:42:54.480
not even a general equity theonomy and nothing nothing um they are they are thomas they put a
00:43:05.020
heavy emphasis on natural theology and the reason of man man's reason they think that that's enough
00:43:15.420
man was created in the image of god and despite the fall a vestige of the enemy
00:43:47.020
but especially including man's ability to reason.
00:43:52.360
So does God have two books, in a sense, in which He has spoken?
00:44:02.240
Does He declare something about Himself in the world that He has made?
00:44:06.020
Yes. The problem is that that book of natural revelation,
00:44:16.360
Because of total depravity, man's reason is so marred
00:44:20.440
that even though God has spoken in natural revelation,
00:44:35.640
But even that, I want you just to consider this.
00:44:50.440
I wonder if even unregenerate man in, because nobody's thinking or doing theology or doing
00:44:57.600
astrophysics or doing engineering or this or that. Nobody's doing anything in a vacuum.
00:45:03.760
We all within the province of God are in a particular context, in a particular time,
00:45:07.540
in a particular place. Don't you think at least it's possible that unregenerate people,
00:45:14.080
unbelievers would be able to to make greater innovations inventions and discoveries if the
1.00
00:45:24.400
context nobody's doing it in a vacuum if the context in which this atheist is is working
00:45:30.180
in the sciences and working in physics is on the heels of 1500 years of christendom
00:45:35.680
right because that's part of the temptation i think right now that's one of the reasons why
00:45:42.080
We give too much credence to classical liberalism.
00:45:44.940
And we give too much credence, this plays in with Thomism.
00:45:48.400
We give too much credence to man's reason, unregenerate man's reason.
00:45:52.720
I think unregenerate man reasons better in Christendom.
00:45:59.100
But what would, I was talking about this with one of the members of my church,
00:46:07.000
He does some scary things, but he also does some good things.
00:46:09.620
but even if he had the exact iq the exact personality the exact intellect
00:46:16.400
but he was born before you know in japan before the 13th century
00:46:21.760
would he be making rocket ships or would he be like a samurai warlord raping and pillaging people
00:46:31.620
right that we've had genius genius pagans before
00:46:39.080
you see the genius pagans that we have today do some wonderful things one because they're made
00:46:47.200
in the image of god but two because this is an image bearer the image tarnished but the image
00:46:54.320
is still there a vestige of the image remains and it's an image bearer not in a vacuum but
00:47:00.280
immersed, that's a Baptist pun by the way, immersed in the Christian worldview. On the heels of
00:47:09.940
centuries of Christian thought, Christian architecture, Christian art, Christian painting,
00:47:17.040
Christian thinking, Christian science. Elon Musk is assuming all of that. He was born into it.
00:47:27.160
that's why the the titan intellect who's not regenerate is able to do so many wonderful
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00:47:36.060
things we all know there's one reason why one reason is because even the unbeliever was created
00:47:41.020
in the image of god but i'm proposing a second reason that the unbeliever with a titan intellect
00:47:47.280
created in the image of god but still unregenerate an unbeliever he doesn't just do wonderful things
00:47:53.040
because he has God's image. But that unbeliever with God's image does especially wonderful things
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when providentially he's born into Christian nations with Christian assumptions and Christian
0.76
00:48:09.180
systems of thought. But what happens if Christendom leaves? The thing that Baptists don't even believe
00:48:18.060
exists chrysidom what happens if it leaves and i mean fully leaves not just the two ships passing
00:48:24.160
in the night but what if chrysidom gets so far away we can't even see it anymore and this illusion
00:48:30.180
the parasite of secularism actually kills the host and if you know anything about host and
0.74
00:48:35.520
parasites once the host is dead the parasite dies too and the host that will replace chrysidom
0.97
00:48:42.280
is paganism did you know christian the christian worldview is not the only host in terms of
00:48:50.620
worldview christianity is not the only host it's the only indefinitely viable host it's the best
00:48:57.940
host the superior host but there are other hosts now not ironic at all totally makes sense other
00:49:06.780
host the thing that makes them at least somewhat viable is they steal from christianity so two
00:49:13.060
christian heresies islam and judaism they are viable not as viable as christianity but they
00:49:23.920
are viable because they're christian heresies judaism is a christian heresy it's not half of
00:49:31.820
the christian faith it's half of the christian faith the torah then misinterpreted through the
00:49:36.640
talmud and perverted and twisted and therefore a christian heresy
0.79
00:49:40.000
islam is a christian heresy but there's still some this you know remnants of christian thought
0.99
00:49:49.200
within it like for instance marriage is between a man and a woman and it's good to have kids
00:49:54.120
all right well that gives you some viability you've got some staying power secularism is a
0.89
00:50:01.760
parasite because it denies even that. It denies God's goodness and the distinction between men
0.94
00:50:07.240
and women. It denies the goodness of being fruitful and multiplying. That's why secularism doesn't
00:50:11.920
have any lasting power. That's why secularism is not what will replace Christianity. Secularism
00:50:18.700
may kill Christendom for a time, but what will replace it will be something else. Not secularism,
00:50:27.880
but something else maybe it's islam maybe it's judaism my bet again is on paganism at least
00:50:36.120
for many parts in the west so we need a big tent we need to be ecumenical we need to partner
00:50:42.460
together however we also still need to disagree along the way so i'll participate in a statement
00:50:48.580
like the statement on christian nationalism and the gospel but then i'll also less than a week
00:50:55.100
later host the theonomy and post-millennialism conference so that all my baptist brothers who
00:51:01.260
are fighting for christian nations so that they know i'm with you under the big tent but i live
00:51:08.360
in a particular strain theonomy and post-millennialism i i am working towards christian nations
00:51:16.800
but i am not doing it on the foundation of man's reason i'm not doing it with a pessimistic
00:51:24.740
eschatology i'm doing it with christ and a great post-millennial hope and i'm doing it by christ
00:51:35.660
namely by his law word his precepts his commandments in scripture in scripture
00:51:43.160
the easiest way that i can say it in terms of presuppositional and tomism these kinds of things
00:51:48.380
what i tell people all the time is you know i'm presuppositional and the short version is this
00:51:53.880
I believe God wrote a book, and we're allowed to use the book.
00:51:58.780
In fact, we're not only permitted, we must use the book.
00:52:02.540
And you can appeal to other authorities, because the book says there are other authorities.
00:52:09.080
That's what makes you ultimately, at the end of the day, presuppositional,
00:52:13.360
You don't say, because of the authority of logic, we can trust the Bible.
00:52:17.180
Because of the authority of sense perception, and because my senses are reliable,
00:52:23.180
because of this certain, you know, archaeologist who discovered this over here. Therefore, we can
00:52:28.700
trust the resurrection, which ultimately gets us to Jesus being God. And then he says that the Bible
00:52:33.920
is the Bible. So now we can trust the Bible. No, what makes you presuppositional is not that you
00:52:38.260
just say, well, Romans 1, Romans 1, Romans 1. You can appeal to other authorities, but all of them
00:52:43.640
resting on the final authority. It's what's underneath. What's the final authority? The Bible
00:52:51.720
validates all these other authorities. These other authorities do not validate the Bible. The Bible
00:52:57.340
is self-authenticating. And I believe that ultimately that's the only view that's going to
00:53:04.480
last. Because anything other than that, that makes the Bible ultimately dependent on man's reason or
00:53:11.000
anything else, will eventually get us right back to the Enlightenment and right back to secularism.
00:53:17.080
so partner as much as we can with anyone i i want people to leave this conference
00:53:22.760
not with a sense of theological pride or superiority going back if you're not post-mail
00:53:28.660
my pastor's not post-mail so i'm immediately leaving my church i don't want that to be the
00:53:33.700
takeaway i want the takeaway to be look we want to see the nations praise king jesus that they
00:53:42.800
would flow to jesus and we know that this is a long project a long period but we can partner
00:53:49.460
with other christians that don't hold the exact same convictions and theologies as we do
00:53:54.120
and we're going to work with them we're going to be humble but we're also going to argue along the
00:54:00.600
way not a divisive kind of arguing a humble arguing but also not we're not relativist we
00:54:07.660
don't pretend that these things don't matter so christian nationalism i think it's a big tent i
00:54:13.760
think it's a label it's up to you and your conscience i'm not telling you what to do
00:54:17.060
but i think it's a label worth wearing and it allows us to partner with other christians
00:54:22.340
to change our nation to work towards that over time but at the same time we have to be able to
00:54:31.200
say to those christians i'm with you here but you need to switch what you believe over there
00:54:36.680
this is going to be a problem so that's the christian nationalism thing why am i committed
00:54:42.820
to christendom 2.0 and i'll land the plane very quickly why am i committed to christendom 2.0
00:54:49.020
well because we're not going to convince others to join us in this project
00:54:52.880
if we're dishonest about the failures of the last project
00:54:57.840
so you may not agree with this or agree with that well i don't think that this is a real term or i
00:55:05.880
don't think that's a real... Well, here's what we know for sure. There have been many serious abuses
00:55:14.320
in the name of Christ. So how is it persuasive? How is it persuasive to say
00:55:23.300
Christendom had no bugs, only features? The Spanish Inquisition is a myth, and it never happened.
00:55:31.760
that that's not persuasive it's it's actually far easier right thinking again i i think in terms of
00:55:39.880
winning which is a very it's that's a that's a novel way for a baptist to think but i i think
00:55:45.800
in terms of winning so i think what would persuade what what would be reasonable what could i get
00:55:52.400
someone on board with okay so so what's more persuasive to convince someone that christendom
00:55:57.940
1.0 had no abuses or to convince someone that christendom doesn't have to be done that way
00:56:04.460
again that christendom is good and that even christendom 1.0 is better than secular humanism
00:56:12.000
and 65 million murdered babies so to say it's not whether but which even christendom 1.0 is better
00:56:19.780
than what we currently have but here's the good news we're not even saying let's switch secularism
00:56:24.040
for christendom 1.0 we're saying let's switch secularism for christendom 2.0 and one of the
00:56:30.700
ways that we do that is with a separation of church and state and this is again some of the
00:56:36.620
confusion that people are you know well you're arguing for you know a conflation of church and
00:56:43.160
state we've said it multiple times during the conference i'm going to say it again so that you
00:56:47.340
remember remember this if anyone says you want you christian nationalists you theonomists you
00:56:52.320
post-mill guys, you want to conflate the state and the church. Say, no, no, no, no. We are not
00:56:57.900
proponents of an ecclesiocracy. That is a church-run state. We are not proponents of an
0.70
00:57:05.700
ecclesiocracy, but we are proponents of theocracy. Theocracy. So we don't want a church-run state,
00:57:15.420
ecclesiocracy, folding those two sovereign spheres, church and state together. But we are proponents
00:57:23.140
of theocracy, which is not church conflating into state, but it's Christ ruling over state.
00:57:34.180
Separation of church and state, yes. And I think you can biblically argue that. It's not just,
00:57:40.860
oh, it's a good idea and that, but that comes from our American tradition. No, I think
00:57:43.720
you can biblically argue it rod martin he says you know that even in genesis you see that the
00:57:48.840
scepter is given to judah but the priesthood is given to levi so even with the 12 tribes of israel
00:57:55.580
you don't have the ruling power and the levitical priestly power within the same tribe there is a
00:58:02.400
distinction but still both in israel so separation of church and state yes and amen i think it's
00:58:08.120
biblical i think it's right and i think it's one of the ways that you guard against christendom 2.0
00:58:12.940
having the same abuses of chrysidom 1.0 so assuage people's fears don't convince them
00:58:19.220
that chrysidom's never done any wrong don't pretend be honest about that and say yeah but
00:58:25.360
even that number one even that would be better than what we currently have you should be able
00:58:29.860
to get agreement on that if you're talking with a christian and then number two we're not even
00:58:34.020
saying go back to that we're saying go to this and work that out and one of the ways that we
00:58:38.220
work out the bugs of Christendom 1.0, as we usher in Christendom 2.0, is a separation of church and
00:58:44.680
state. No ecclesiocracy. However, no ecclesiocracy. Yes, inevitably, a theocracy. Theocracy means no
00:58:54.980
separation of Christ and state. Separation of church and state? Yes. Separation of Christ and
00:59:01.880
state. No, every government has a God. Again, not whether but which. And if it has no God above it,
00:59:11.300
then the government itself is God. The state is God, which again is a religion. It's a form of
00:59:19.540
worship. It's statism. So it's inevitable. It's not whether but which. It's not will there be a God
00:59:26.380
in government. It's simply what God will there be. So we're committed to theocracy.
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The last question is this. Does God change his world from the top down or from the bottom up?
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We need more regenerate hearts. We need a great move of the Spirit of God that may come in our
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lifetime we work towards it we pray for it but it also may not come god is sovereign and he does
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what he wills we need a great move of the spirit we need more conversion we need more regenerate
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hearts and then we need those christians with numbers greater numbers than we currently have
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to apply all of christ to all of life to not just be christians in the church and in their marriages
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and their parenting and the home of the church,
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but to be Christians in every single realm of society.
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I mean, just not even the pastor of the church,
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And you should go to seminary and be a pastor.
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And now we say, Christians don't have any institutional power.
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you took your most talented guys in those institutions and you told them if they really
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loved jesus they'd be pastors because at the end of the day in your heart of hearts what you
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actually believe is that the only institution that matters is the church and that has been
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the dominant baptist assumption for quite a while and i believe it's wrong
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i believe it's wrong the church as joe boot said the ecclesia the called out ones as it represents
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individual people who make up christ's bride yeah that's nothing compares to that but the
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church institute the institution of the church while radically important and vital
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it is not the only thing that's important it does not have exclusive importance medicine matters
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the home matters the arts matter academia matters and the civil magistrate caesar
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he matters did you know john gill a baptist i might add john gill said this he and he's
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referencing cross-referencing over this is in Joshua chapter I believe it's chapter 1 verse 11
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his commentary he's cross-referencing over to 1st Timothy chapter 3 verse 1 it says he who desires
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to be an elder an overseer a pastor desires a noble thing and he says in the same way that
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desiring the office of an elder in the church is a noble desire so too he who desires to be an
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officer in the state desires a noble thing that's john gill's position on christians in the civil
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magistrate because he's talking about joshua's officers he gives the command to the officers
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and then the officers go and tell the people the less it's the doctrine of the lesser magistrate
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and that joshua would not have gotten very far if it wasn't for having lesser magistrates
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godly officers to help him corral and lead the people we need christian men who are serious
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about theology who want to do something besides just pastor we need pastors we need that too
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but that's not all we need it's not all that we need so we need more regenerate hearts we need
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more gospel preaching we need more churches planted but we also need more christians involved
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in other spheres of society at large besides just the church institute. And all of that is bottom
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up. But my conclusion for today is this. The sodomites with less than 3% of the population
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in 40 years replaced the American flag with a rainbow. I'll say it one more time. The sodomites
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not not not being domineering not being ungodly you do all this righteously but the reason why
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i think we have to have the conversation is one because i think it's not either or i think it's
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both both and it's bottom up massive move of the spirit massive regeneration we need more
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regenerate hearts but two the regenerate hearts that we already have need to get in the fight
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they need to be educated they need to be equipped they need to engage and we need to have an
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understanding of these things right now because right now even if we don't have the numbers even
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if we are the minority in this current moment in history right now there are christian christians
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who are police officers and they're asking us how should we then live there are christians
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even all the way back way before christendom was established in the very beginning the grassroots
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when when the christians were far outnumbered in the days of john the baptist even then civil
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magistrates from rome soldiers came to him and said what should we do and john the baptist had
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an answer and his answer wasn't oh you're you're gonna do you're gonna repent and be baptized well
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the Christian thing to do for those who repent and are baptized is you quit your civil magistrate
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job. Stop being a soldier. That's not what he said. John the Baptist effectively, this is the
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essence, the conclusion of what he said, is he said, you can be a Christian and work within the
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civil magistrate. But you have to be, if you're a Christian, you have to work in the civil magistrate
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Christianly. Christianly. And so we have to be able to give an answer. We have to be able to say,
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this is what it's like today, not just 500 years from now, but right now. How does a Christian
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use equal weights and measures? How are they impartial and blind when it comes to justice?
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How are they proportional, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, life for life? That's why general equity,
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theonomy, and these kinds of conversations, they matter. Not just that they matter for the 500-year
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plan but they also matter for the five-year plan and we need to be committed to both let's pray
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father god thank you thank you for the truth that you thank you for not abandoning us jesus said i
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will not leave you as orphans but i will come to you and christ has come to us the spirit of the
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risen christ has come to us who are in christ through faith by the indwelling ministry of the
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Holy Spirit. Our body is now a temple of the Holy Spirit. And the Spirit reminds us of all that
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Christ has said and guides us into truth and convicts us of sin. And the Holy Spirit doesn't
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just do this to inform us how to walk out our 15 minute daily quiet time. But you are guiding us
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Surely life includes civil life, political life.
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Help us to believe that your word is not just sufficient
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But help us to believe that your word speaks to everything.
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As Dr. Boots said, even stir-fry, or how to boil an egg.
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And if your word does address even Christian cooking,
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And certainly it addresses Christian governing.
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An answer from the Scripture that doesn't say murder should be illegal,
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theft should be illegal, but these other things aren't.
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And it's because at the end of the day, the standard is it seems right.
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Or it's just what we've done ever since I've been alive in America.
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And when someone says, well, you're pointing to these verses, why not those?
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Then we need to be able to confess that we're being hypocritical.
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And that God's standard is actually not just just, but it's also compassionate.
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it is compassionate as joe said last night prison is not compassionate it's not humane
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we are so deceived and so warped we need your help so god we do pray right now i pray
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for a massive move of your spirit that there would be revival and regeneration across our land and
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our nation and all over the world we pray for it lord we plead with you that you might turn the
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hearts of the people back to you. But Lord, we also pray that as we wait for that, that Christians
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now, saved by your grace today, that we would be faithful in every realm and that we would seek to
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apply all of Christ to all of life. And not just speaking in the hypothetical for 500 years from
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now but what we're going to do on monday help us god it's a massive project it's going to require
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massive wisdom learning and humility help us to be humble lord help us to work with those we
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disagree with as much as we can but also while maintaining that doctrine matters we pray it all
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in jesus name it's a tall order but you are a faithful god in jesus name amen all right
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we'll see you guys tomorrow morning for the lord's day 10 a.m