The NXR Podcast - NXR Livestream - America： Nation or Empire？

00:00:00.000 We are the new Christian right. You are watching NXR Studios.

00:00:04.740 We are Christian nationalists. We make no apology about that, 100%.

00:00:09.240 And yet, at the same time, I must admit that we are Christendom maxing.

00:00:13.820 And we will look at Christendom, Christianity and its global influence over the last 1,500 years.

00:00:21.180 God has used nations that cannot be disputed.

00:00:24.720 And yet, at the same time, it wasn't simply nationalism.

00:00:28.060 there were Christian empires. Christendom, it contained an empirical element, and that's

00:00:35.580 inescapable, whether it's the Byzantine Empire, the Roman Empire, the British Empire more recently,

00:00:42.360 and the American Empire, which seems as though it had its high watermark maybe in the early

00:00:48.260 1900s. And we have been, and we have to acknowledge this, for the last century,

00:00:52.600 We have been on a slow decline, and so what we're going to try to do today is explain

00:00:58.880 what is Christian nationalism, and then just nationalism in a broader sense, and what is

00:01:05.240 imperialism, and is there any way to reconcile the two?

00:01:10.480 Because we are nationalists, but we are not isolationists, and there are certain aspects

00:01:15.480 of imperialism, especially, by God's grace, if it be Christian imperialism, that we think

00:01:21.460 are not only biblically permissible but actually benevolent towards other nations beneficial for

00:01:28.240 the nation that has that control but the nations at large and not only permissible beneficial but

00:01:35.780 also in some sense if a nation is powerful enough inevitable that there's a certain aspect in which

00:01:43.260 we're kidding ourselves if we pretend that you're going to have this strong christian nation that's

00:01:49.140 powerful, that's opulent, that's wealthy, that's moral, and that it's going to have no influence

00:01:55.320 or power in the rest of the world. That's just not really possible. And so we're going to be

00:02:03.000 talking about Christian nationalism and Christian imperialism and talking about how these two things

00:02:09.080 can be held in tandem, if that's even possible. And especially, we're going to kind of flesh out

00:02:15.920 how these things historically have been at odds. That when you start to embrace the empire,

00:02:22.540 the homogenous aspect of the nation at the national level begins to fracture,

00:02:28.420 begins to break apart. We've experienced that here in America. Rome certainly experienced that.

00:02:33.220 England, the British Empire certainly experienced that. So we're going to be taking a historical

00:02:37.260 overview, looking at Christian nations and Christian empires, and then honing in on our

00:02:44.300 nation, these United States of America, where we are today? What went wrong? Can it be fixed? Do we

00:02:49.860 need to pick a lane and just be nationalists and leave the empire stuff out of it? Or do we go and

00:02:55.880 get us some Greenland, which I think, I actually think we could do both. I'd like to take Greenland.

00:03:02.100 That's what we're talking about today. Our schedule, if you're new to the channel, is every

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00:03:59.600 at Joel Webin, at Joel Webin. All right. That's the episode for today. We're going to get right

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00:06:46.120 we're so back happy friday we're here we made it friday now we are in huge trouble because we're

00:07:03.520 in texas and uh we're in huge trouble for a lot of reasons being in texas because turns out you

00:07:09.320 can absolutely mess with texas you can mess with its immigration policy h1b visas flooding the

00:07:14.980 state uh you can mess with texas in a lot of ways but particularly we are in trouble this weekend

00:07:19.540 for all our texas listeners shout out to you guys you you know the predicament that we're in uh it

00:07:25.320 has been reported rumors on the ground that ted cruz and his family have been spotted at an airport

00:07:31.940 heading out of the state out of the country for what was it cancun or something i think they're

00:07:37.660 going to get resources and they're going to bring him back to help he's not heading north let's just

00:07:42.080 put it that way so ted cruz has legitimately been cited this is the rumor um at an airport heading

00:07:48.700 out of the country to go to some tropical you know vacation and the last time he did that was

00:07:53.400 february 2021 and that's when i think it was like 211 people froze 211 000 no 200 no 211 people

00:08:02.680 froze and died yeah died that's so that's when we had like a week-long power outage in texas because

00:08:08.800 of a historic unprecedented snow we had like a foot of snow it was crazy and we don't and it's

00:08:14.680 like oh texans you know you're weak or whatever no we like we just literally don't have we don't

00:08:19.760 have the the winterized you know the homes themselves are not built to insulate like you

00:08:24.500 do have them in the northeast correct so when everybody's power went out and they don't have

00:08:28.420 the insulation and they don't have the winterized you know piping and all these kinds of things

00:08:31.940 everyone lost water they lost heat uh houses quickly dropped i remember inside my house it

00:08:38.020 got down to um i think 53 degrees inside the house and we had a newborn baby you know and so

00:08:43.500 like we're like you know so it was it was tough so uh the point is this um if you see ted cruz

00:08:49.400 leaving the state because ted cruz he's the kind of man who he will abandon his people

00:08:54.440 in a heartbeat right he's probably on his way to israel but you know tel aviv ted um but if ted

00:09:01.100 cruz if you know bad weather's coming and he's spotted at the airport with his family um you

00:09:06.320 know it's going to be bad he's the texas groundhog if he shows his face you know you're going to

00:09:10.120 freeze yeah so yeah so um so please be praying for us and others in texas ted cruz once again

00:09:16.820 has abandoned us and that means it's going to be bad he knows things that we don't know and when

00:09:21.200 he knows troubles on the way he stands his ground and protects people in texas now he immediately

00:09:26.540 flees goes and visits the bahamas ground and says while people freeze israel needs me yeah

00:09:32.020 Yeah, Israel needs me.

00:09:33.240 So seriously, it's rough.

00:09:34.960 So be praying.

00:09:36.180 All right.

00:09:36.700 All right.

00:09:37.200 Well, we're going to go ahead and dive right into it.

00:09:38.800 There's a tension between imperialism, which we get from the British imperial empire, this

00:09:43.560 idea.

00:09:44.220 We even have metrics and different measurements that we use reflecting this time when Britain 0.67

00:09:48.620 ruled so much of the known world that all the measurements were standardized, no matter

00:09:52.380 where you were.

00:09:53.580 So you have imperialism, which is the stand-in for empire, emperors, kings, vast amounts

00:09:58.940 of space.

00:09:59.900 And then you have this idea of nationalism.

00:10:02.020 the nation, the state, limited, this connection of blood, lineage, soil, land, and people.

00:10:08.780 And I'm using very broad, big buckets. There's obviously nuance within nationalism,

00:10:12.760 your old Greek city-states, nation-states, versus the French Revolution, versus civic nationalism,

00:10:18.880 versus all different types of nationalism. But talking two big buckets here, here's a tension

00:10:23.280 a nation is always going to have to undergo as it grows and expands and it's successful.

00:10:28.460 How big do you get, and what does it mean to actually belong to that nation?

00:10:33.060 And if you look at history and you survey it, you kind of see an ebb and a flow,

00:10:37.400 a back and a forth between the consolidation of power under these big, massive empires

00:10:42.360 and all the benefits that come with it.

00:10:44.080 I mean, think of the opulence of Rome.

00:10:45.920 Think of the things that they were able to collect from the rest of the world.

00:10:49.040 They were able to use ducks and bring water in from hundreds of miles away

00:10:52.900 and roads and coins and travel.

00:10:54.840 I mean you can have a great life

00:10:57.100 When you're seated at the seat of power

00:10:58.920 At the head of this vast empire

00:11:00.920 Spanning multiple continents 0.99

00:11:02.380 Same thing for the British 1.00

00:11:03.520 It's kind of funny it said 1.00

00:11:04.900 For the beauty of their women

00:11:06.160 And the quality of their food

00:11:07.620 The British became the greatest seafarers

00:11:09.340 That ever lived

00:11:10.180 And it's a little bit tongue in cheek

00:11:11.260 Kind of picking on the British

00:11:12.240 But seriously

00:11:13.140 Why were they getting all these spices

00:11:15.260 For the beauty of their dental program

00:11:17.580 The quality of their dentists

00:11:20.540 For the flavor in their breakfast

00:11:23.060 We're talking beans

00:11:24.380 We're talking toast.

00:11:26.240 Fish and beans. 0.99

00:11:27.240 Why did they loot India for all these spices? 1.00

00:11:29.280 Why did they go to Africa?

00:11:30.620 The slaves typically, they weren't going into the jungle and bringing them out.

00:11:33.900 They were lined up on the shore and they were buying them.

00:11:35.840 It was quality of life.

00:11:36.920 There's lots of things that come with being an empire that allows you to do a lot of things,

00:11:40.900 to have a high standard of living, to have a lot of control as well.

00:11:44.260 You have these provinces.

00:11:45.380 You're in control.

00:11:46.100 You rule with an iron fist.

00:11:47.220 So there's benefits to this empire side of things.

00:11:49.880 But we've lived through now at this point, decades since you could call it World War II,

00:11:54.380 80 years, eight decades of globalism, we said, sure, we can get a lot of stuff cheap. I mean,

00:12:00.680 my goodness, anything you could want shipped to your door. You can also have people that will

00:12:04.620 work for dirt cheap, whether it be in your tech company, whether it be in hospitality services,

00:12:09.060 we've got cheap labor, we've got cheap goods, we have the most delicious taco food trucks around.

00:12:13.760 What more could people want? Well, it turns out actually people could want a lot more.

00:12:17.980 We're all saying this doesn't feel like the greatest thing ever. And so you're seeing not

00:12:21.340 just here in America either. Globally, a return to nationalism. Hey, somewhere along the way,

00:12:26.920 we lost our identity of what it meant to be British, what it meant to be German,

00:12:30.740 what it meant to be American. And this is the pendulum. Empire, nation. Empire, nation. You

00:12:37.600 had the ancient city-states, very much so connected to kinship, rulers, and lineage. This is your

00:12:43.240 Egypt. This is your Athens. Very much so centered around a small group of people that existed for 0.96

00:12:48.460 themselves. If you were descendant from those people, you were the ones who held citizenship.

00:12:52.220 You were the ones who held power, and everyone else was a second-class ruler. But of course,

00:12:56.740 we see Rome. And Rome, it's interesting, you kind of compare Britain and Rome. Rome is landlocked,

00:13:02.340 so they had to have this strong military in order to maintain their territory, in order to

00:13:07.440 maintain Rome as a city. And they fold the Italians in eventually. They become this massive empire.

00:13:12.900 I mean, the most famous story you're hopefully all familiar with, Judea becomes a province. They

00:13:16.940 take over these little countries, and it's like, congratulations, you're being liberated to become

00:13:21.280 a tax farm. And so the Roman Empire grows. But what happens? Well, eventually, you have 0.59

00:13:26.660 provinces, you have people, and you have people vying for power. And you have, in the 500s,

00:13:33.580 Rome splits. The Byzantian Empire in the east falls. It's a mixture of the Franks, the Visigoths,

00:13:39.320 all these different Germanic peoples in Europe. And that great fragmentation, so the fragmentation,

00:13:44.660 People spread out. They come back together. You have a Holy Roman Empire, the Hasberg dynasty in

00:13:50.500 Eastern Europe. But then you get to the French Revolution. And again, people come back to, 0.97

00:13:55.080 after the Napoleonic Wars, this idea again of nationalism. But they come back to a different

00:13:59.720 idea of nationalism. We were talking about this in the cold open. They come back to this idea more

00:14:04.060 of creedal, propositional, an idea of nationalism. Somewhere along the way, what begins to get lost

00:14:10.480 in this process of the Enlightenment, which is not a monolith, for the record.

00:14:14.120 The Enlightenment is not just, oh, Enlightenment bad.

00:14:16.560 It was the natural progress of history, as, for better or for worse,

00:14:20.540 the Protestant Reformation freed science, medicine, and all these things

00:14:24.700 from the auspices of the church over it.

00:14:26.740 There was going to be developments.

00:14:28.720 There was going to be changes.

00:14:29.820 There was going to be norms that were challenged.

00:14:31.980 So the Enlightenment challenges these norms.

00:14:34.240 And it comes up with this interesting idea of, well, how about the nation?

00:14:37.000 but the nation predicated on not so much the people, not so much the land, not so much the

00:14:42.100 ethnic identity, but on liberty, fraternity, and egalitarianism. That would be the French

00:14:48.020 Revolution. And we see that. The point of today's episode is America. Which one are we going to be?

00:14:53.200 Are we going to be the nation with walls that are 100 feet high on every border,

00:14:57.400 locked down America for Americans? Or is the Western Hemisphere ours? We rule. We say who

00:15:03.900 stays in power. We need this for strategic resources. We're going to take what we want.

00:15:08.980 And so that's the tension. And last thing I'll say, I want to give it to Antonio, because you

00:15:12.120 want to get into America specifically, is you do see some of that French idea come through

00:15:17.400 in the American ethos, that some of those ideas of nationalism, it gets reborn,

00:15:22.640 but it gets reborn with these flavors of a very flattened, very unhierarchical. We were talking

00:15:27.960 even last night. Is it, does egalitarianism, does it come into America via the French Revolution,

00:15:33.980 via the intellectuals, or is there some parts of Christianity that are twisted and warped

00:15:38.360 to make America egalitarian in that sense? And it's the same tension you just saw right now at

00:15:43.280 the World Economic Forum over the weekend that Donald Trump is getting at. He's bringing back

00:15:47.820 a vision, and we're going to talk about whether it's for better or worse, of an imperial America,

00:15:51.920 a hemisphere that's ours, a place we rule with military might. Donald Trump at the World Economic

00:15:57.860 form. Didn't love those words coming out of my mouth. It's not great. Yeah, no, I think it's

00:16:04.560 also interesting. You can sort of, so you have imperialism, you have nationalism, you can go into

00:16:09.380 nationalism and see, I think, Wes, as you started to lay out different forms of nationalism. And I

00:16:14.360 think you could call them, you could call it civic or propositional. That's sort of what you

00:16:17.780 were describing. And then there's this nationalism that emerges in the 19th century, predominantly

00:16:22.180 in sort of Central and Eastern Europe.

00:16:24.580 So you can think of like Germany, for example.

00:16:27.220 And it's this idea of romantic nationalism.

00:16:29.620 It's a lot more rooted to the people

00:16:31.640 and the specific myths that they tell themselves

00:16:33.760 and the history and the tradition

00:16:35.020 and that spanning back a millennia

00:16:37.520 in the case of Central Europe.

00:16:39.720 And if you look at the early Americas,

00:16:41.260 you can actually see kind of both elements.

00:16:43.820 Like in one sense, you can totally understand

00:16:46.480 how the founders were sort of informed by the Enlightenment.

00:16:49.260 There are certainly Enlightenment thinkers,

00:16:50.640 Jefferson and the lot.

00:16:51.720 And if you read the Declaration of Independence, it actually does read like a propositional sort of form of nationalism.

00:16:58.400 It's very creedal. Things like all men are created equal. These things are creeds, right?

00:17:02.700 And so you can see how, in that sense, the sort of civic nationalist today is actually pulling those things out of the founding.

00:17:10.260 And, of course, the other side of the coin is the sense in which it was kind of assumed.

00:17:15.200 There was some presuppositional kind of understanding of who the people were, where they emerged from, the basis on which these ideas and shared culture and history all sort of rested.

00:17:26.040 And so you see this sort of back and forth, this vying that's happening, I think, in America even today as we look back into our history to say, what was it?

00:17:33.780 Was it more of the proposition?

00:17:35.700 Was it more of the people and the place and the history and the myths?

00:17:39.600 And so that on its face becomes kind of the dilemma.

00:17:43.100 It becomes a matter of sort of historical interpretation and what exactly the founders think.

00:17:48.180 Like I think on one of these episodes a couple weeks back, I sort of quoted George Washington's sort of farewell address.

00:17:55.040 And at one point he's quoting and saying, I have a fondness for the nation and for the people.

00:18:00.200 You know, the place where my father's blood was spilled, those sorts of things are coming out.

00:18:03.880 And so clearly they had this connection, though it was a little bit more shallow than, for example, you would look back into Europe and see.

00:18:10.580 But for me, I think like the Holy Roman Empire is actually a good example of sort of what's

00:18:15.760 happening with this sort of ebbing and waning and waxing, or I should say waxing and waning

00:18:20.620 of imperialism and nationalism.

00:18:22.440 So you have the Holy Roman Empire, we're thinking about the 15th century, and the Holy Roman

00:18:27.040 Empire at that time is actually comprised of both Protestants and Catholics.

00:18:31.580 And essentially it splits up and breaks into nations and what our modern conception of

00:18:35.700 the nation is, over these sort of intra-imperial religious and political divides. And so these

00:18:43.020 nations are fighting, and the Holy Roman Empire, it can't hold it all together. And this is sort

00:18:47.540 of what you were talking about, Wes, which is an empire essentially breaks down when the people

00:18:52.940 on the ground who are dispersed around the land or around the world, in the case of the British

00:18:57.740 Empire, they look into the global system, whether that's the Holy Roman Empire or the British

00:19:02.540 empire, or today you could argue it's the UN, it's NATO. They look at the global system,

00:19:07.760 they assess themselves with respect to it, and they think it's broken. And that could be on

00:19:12.820 religious grounds, that could be on economic grounds or political grounds. And that's when

00:19:17.040 the nationalism starts to emerge as saying, hey, this system doesn't work for us, and we want to

00:19:20.940 break free of it. And of course, at that point, when somebody wants to break free, everyone wants

00:19:25.040 to break free. It's a sort of idea of secession being the same thing. It's Florida wants to

00:19:31.040 secede. Oh, well, North Carolina wants to secede too. If everything's breaking apart, we don't want

00:19:35.760 to be the ones left holding the bag. And that's sort of where we can assess America today with

00:19:42.380 respect to nationalism. But also we talked about Iran on the episode about sort of what's happening

00:19:48.300 there in the rise of nationalism. It's happening everywhere in the world. Everyone's looking and

00:19:51.960 saying, there's no benefit to this. And to even hone in on a little bit more what the imperialism

00:19:57.900 is today what this sort of global empire is it's an economic empire and and you you introduce the

00:20:04.380 the invention of technology and your ability to outsource not only sort of manufacturing but also

00:20:09.400 information you can outsource for example you've got tech people in india they don't even have to

00:20:14.780 be here and they can sort of provide economic value and so what was always sort of the underlying

00:20:19.700 engine for imperialism which was you could think back to the 18th century of being spice and grain

00:20:26.000 and access to gold and all of these things, now it's access to labor, it's access to information,

00:20:31.620 it's access to software and those sorts of things. And it's happening today. And at some point,

00:20:39.200 you get so stretched thin, economically speaking, so stretched thin that the people in any given

00:20:44.640 nation actually feel like they're giving more than they're bringing in. And that's sort of

00:20:50.260 the disruption we're seeing today. And America's really at the height of it. And even if you think

00:20:54.380 about American history, right? America has gone through these series of, we want to be isolationist

00:21:00.920 and non-interventionist. And then they'll go into a spirit of global expansion. I'm thinking about

00:21:05.800 the turn of the 20th century and the Rooseveltian era. And we think about America getting involved

00:21:10.680 in the Spanish-American War and the Philippine War. Walk softly and carry a big stick was Teddy

00:21:15.180 Roosevelt's motto. We're not going to be super involved, but my goodness, if you act up,

00:21:19.960 daddy's coming to town right he's coming with a big yeah and so there's always this tension of

00:21:24.180 america is and and this is really sort of my diagnosis of what america where america's at is

00:21:29.040 it's trying to hold on to nation nationhood being a being a nation a cohesive nation while also

00:21:35.820 engaging in these quasi-imperial activities and so you start at the 20th century and you can see

00:21:41.200 the wars particularly under the monroe doctrine in the western hemisphere that america's getting

00:21:45.560 involved in and saying, we need all European powers out of the Western hemisphere. We want

00:21:50.560 to own this half of the world. And then you go into World War I, isolationist, but then eventually

00:21:56.120 dragged in toward the end. World War II, isolationist, but eventually dragged in through an

00:22:00.260 attack. And then you come out of that, and America is a hegemon. And America can finally say, wait,

00:22:05.440 there's no other global power. You also come out of that into the Cold War.

00:22:09.860 And then the Cold War emerges.

00:22:11.540 It's so easy to forget that half of the world lay under communism.

00:22:16.060 And there was this real sense in America of like, this is an existential crisis.

00:22:19.660 And the possibility of nuclear war wiping us out is real. 0.62

00:22:23.360 I'm sympathetic to the dispensational who felt through the last half of the 1900s,

00:22:27.920 the world could be ending any day because they all lived under the threat of basically nuclear war

00:22:32.500 between two massive superpowers on either side of the world that were ready,

00:22:36.080 especially at like the Cuban Missile Crisis, this close.

00:22:39.860 to just sending all your nukes you have, blowing it up.

00:22:43.080 And so even under that, the development of, well, we're America,

00:22:47.100 and we're going to kind of hunker down.

00:22:49.020 We're going to kind of do our own thing.

00:22:50.580 And then the Cold War ends, and it's, well, man, the world's opened up to us.

00:22:53.520 Even China to the late 1980s, they begin to embrace some capitalism.

00:22:57.800 They become a manufacturing capital of the world.

00:23:00.020 All of these different pieces in history come together.

00:23:02.640 And it's interesting, and I want to hone in,

00:23:04.060 and Joel, you said something really good during our debate on interracial marriage.

00:23:07.180 I don't think it's a coincidence that the early 1900s is the time that we point to and say,

00:23:12.240 when was America kind of at the height of its power? And she was interfering. She was going 0.96

00:23:17.000 out and getting what she wanted. Well, I think that's because after World War, or sorry, not

00:23:20.960 World War, the Civil War, and after some of the reconstruction that happened, you had this period

00:23:25.600 where you had a real and American ethnogenesis. One of the earlier ones is in the early 1800s,

00:23:30.520 when you had lots of migration. This is primarily from England. The core colonial stock of America

00:23:36.560 is English. It's the WASP, the white Anglo-Saxon Protestant. Well, in the 1800s, a lot of Germans 0.97

00:23:41.980 begin to come, and you have this process where the pioneer experience, the wilderness, it forges

00:23:47.940 this new type of American, and Teddy Roosevelt himself points to that as this source of cohesion,

00:23:52.860 that all these different peoples from Europe had come together, and Joel, you've likened it to a

00:23:57.040 cake, and I want to hand it to you. All these different peoples come together, and the adversity,

00:24:01.420 the heat, and the ingredients, similar peoples, John Jay, very early on in the Federalist Papers,

00:24:06.660 he cites that as a source of American cohesion. We come speaking the same language, we worship

00:24:12.840 the same God, we're descended from the same law system. So those similar ingredients, similar

00:24:17.220 people brought together in the heat of it creates this new American ethnicity. And with that core

00:24:21.800 identity that really hadn't been degraded much by that point by massive immigration that came after

00:24:27.100 World War II, well, we have this American identity and it's very easy for us actually

00:24:30.720 to be incredibly powerful, to be a manufacturing hub, to explode with industry. And it's called

00:24:36.460 the Roaring Twenties. You want to go ahead?

00:24:38.680 Yeah. Yeah. So I've likened it to more of like a blacksmith. The cake thing is, that

00:24:44.880 would work, baking a cake, but let's make it a little bit more masculine. So think like

00:24:48.800 you're fashioning a sword. You have a furnace. Within the furnace, you have a source of heat,

00:24:54.740 fire. You also have the element of time, right? You can't necessarily accomplish your task in 30

00:25:01.220 seconds. It's something that's going to require time. So you need the heat, the fire. You also

00:25:06.640 need the time in order to melt and mesh the metals into one. And then, of course, you need

00:25:13.620 the ingredients. And with, you know, fashioning, you know, a sword, you want ingredients that

00:25:19.900 are compatible, right? So it's not just one ingredient, there's probably going to be a few,

00:25:25.840 but they're going to be, you know, closely related to one another. So you have iron, you have

00:25:31.140 some kind of alloy, you know, or, you know, aluminum or something like that, different metals

00:25:36.380 that you're meshing into one another. So if you think of America historically, we had wave after

00:25:43.100 wave of immigration, but although those waves were fairly large, you think of the Irish coming,

00:25:51.000 you think of the Italians coming, you think of the Germans coming, these were large influxes

00:25:56.960 of peoples that were joining this mostly, as you stated Wes, WASP, so it was primarily

00:26:03.380 in Anglo-Saxon, it was British, Protestant, but as there was an influx of new people,

00:26:08.880 you had uh large uh additions but you had pauses time in between so it would you know when it rains

00:26:16.420 it pours um but then you would have a season where it would it would pause and would stop and you'd

00:26:21.900 be able to take this new ingredient this new metal that just came in and bake it into the pie you

00:26:27.740 know work it into you know the the substance and in the case of these different ingredients

00:26:32.780 there were obviously sharp distinctions but they weren't you know although there were sharp

00:26:40.280 distinctions and disagreements and these kinds of things they it wasn't you know Haitians and

00:26:46.960 Swedes right it wasn't that distantly related so when Germans came in well Germans are European

00:26:54.600 Germans are white and the Germans were Lutheran they were they were Protestant and so are there

00:27:00.620 distinctions and and sharp disagreements between the germans and the british uh you know the

00:27:06.020 founding stock yeah uh-huh um but not to the same degree it's it's i mean germans coming in as

00:27:12.780 lutherans um is very different than you know um a bunch of pakistanis coming in as muslims right

00:27:19.700 that's radically different um and so you know you had the influx of the irish the germans the

00:27:24.380 the Italians, but you had these different ingredients were somewhat relatively closely

00:27:31.660 related, at least a lot more. The Italians were difficult because they were Catholic

00:27:35.120 and America was majority Protestant. And so when the Catholics came in, there was, you know,

00:27:42.420 sharp disputes in that regard. And the Italians struggled more to assimilate. And because they

00:27:48.220 struggled more to assimilate, they gravitated towards crime. That's where you got all the

00:27:53.260 mob syndicates, you know, in like New York became infested by mob bosses, you know, the mafia, 0.84

00:27:58.660 you know, and it was primarily Italian Catholic families that made up the mafia. But given enough 0.79

00:28:04.280 time, eventually Italians assimilated and were baked into the pie. And so if you think of like 0.97

00:28:09.640 the furnace being the land, the place, all right, so you have the landmass geographically, this

00:28:15.720 country, in our case, America, that's the furnace. And then you have the ingredients, that's the

00:28:20.500 peoples, right? You're taking iron, you're taking maybe some silver, you're taking some

00:28:24.460 whatever, these different metals. That's the peoples, right? So Germans and Scots and English

00:28:31.100 and, you know, and so you have the ingredients are like the people, the furnace is like the land, 0.87

00:28:36.140 the place. And then the fire, excuse me, the fire, the heat source, in many ways, I would liken that

00:28:43.920 to providence, particularly in the form of adversity, challenge, difficulty. And that's

00:28:50.480 something to keep in mind that when it comes to early immigration in America's history,

00:28:55.420 yes, it is immigration. I understand. I'm not going to just, well, actually, that's fine. But

00:29:01.700 I think we also have to understand that the country was not yet settled, right? So these

00:29:06.000 are immigrants, but they also are functioning as different ways of settlers. And what I mean by

00:29:11.000 that is that america still had a lot of work to be done um it's a large land mass and we didn't

00:29:17.120 have that many people so when people were coming they weren't coming to a place that already had

00:29:22.500 roads and highways and toll booths you know and a perfect mail system and and all the infrastructure

00:29:28.440 and social security social aid and they're you know these were not people who were coming for

00:29:33.920 a check they weren't coming for a handout they were coming for an opportunity and they were

00:29:39.080 gonna have to work in order to achieve it and so it's like all right hey uh you're here and here's

00:29:45.340 uh here's some unsettled land acres and acres miles and miles it's out there you're gonna have 0.99

00:29:50.980 to get there you're gonna have to survive you're gonna probably have to fight some uh some indians 0.98

00:29:56.160 um you're gonna have to uh not die of dysentery you know the organ trail old computer game you 1.00

00:30:01.740 know i'm aging myself here uh but like and uh if you can survive and if you can tame the land

00:30:07.720 and if you can build and if you can settle, then it's yours. That's not what people are coming to

00:30:13.540 anymore. It's all settled. There's no such thing as settlers in the year of our Lord, 2026. It's

00:30:18.620 just money, please, immigrants. That's all it is. Money, please. There's no, hey, we're coming to 1.00

00:30:25.200 help build this country. No, we're coming because we already destroyed our country, right? Indians

00:30:30.360 somehow will make America better, but they haven't been able to make India better. So we're actually 1.00

00:30:35.260 destroyed our country we're coming for a handout from your country we're not coming to build it

00:30:40.360 we're coming to take it and and so the difference is um iron think of like iron and silver versus

00:30:49.620 uh gold and grass those are two ingredients but far more distantly related right and so we have

00:30:58.040 like five six seven different ingredients closely related different kinds of metal but they're all

00:31:03.840 metal um now we have like five or six different kinds of metal and we also have some dirt and

00:31:11.160 wood and hay and stubble and grass and curry you know and and you know also um we have instead of

00:31:17.380 five or six ingredients we have like 500 different ingredients um instead of them being closely

00:31:23.680 related they are like oil and water very distantly related uh the furnace is already now very full

00:31:30.660 right that's the place the land itself the furnace doesn't have nearly as much space as much room

00:31:36.180 the fire that's the providence the adversity the challenge there is no fire so you're taking

00:31:42.780 instead of five or six closely related ingredients and putting them in a hot furnace to weld them

00:31:47.100 together you're taking 500 ingredients not closely related at all putting them to a furnace that

00:31:52.520 hasn't been turned on that hasn't been lit there is no fire of adversity right it's actually cold

00:31:57.720 You come, you get a handout.

00:31:59.880 So there's no fire.

00:32:01.020 There's no adversity because that brings people together.

00:32:03.700 Providentially, that's one thing that forms a sense of unity.

00:32:07.520 Right after Charlie Kirk was assassinated, we achieved unity on the right for almost a full two weeks.

00:32:14.320 It was like 10 days of unity, which is quite the achievement for the right.

00:32:19.360 And you're being a little facetious, but seriously, guys like Matt Walsh said,

00:32:22.260 if you are against the people that killed Charlie Kirk, we are allies.

00:32:26.000 We have our differences.

00:32:26.900 They matter.

00:32:27.720 But right now, we are going after the people that murdered this man.

00:32:31.100 That's right.

00:32:31.400 And COVID was similar.

00:32:32.820 COVID is like, dude, like, all right, we lost half the team.

00:32:35.760 Turns out the guys who were calling themselves conservatives were actually just, you know,

00:32:38.940 raging liberals.

00:32:39.780 So like half of the team, you know, disappeared and was following, you know, David French

00:32:43.620 and, you know, Francis Collins and all these kinds of guys and doing like paid demonstrations

00:32:49.160 and propaganda in churches for the vaccine.

00:32:52.660 You know, so you lost those guys.

00:32:54.200 But the people remaining, tight unity.

00:32:57.720 right? Like locking arms, we're fighting together. And we, you know, we've had a lot

00:33:01.820 of relationships in 2020 and 2021. It's like, man, these, these are our guys, but then time

00:33:09.640 continues. And then it becomes more fractured and more particular. Like, are we going to fight this

00:33:14.400 issue or this issue? Even just Hamas's attack on Israel on October 7th, that has been a fracture

00:33:19.800 point for the right over the last two years. You had COVID sorted people, and then you had another

00:33:25.080 issue. But then it resorted people into different buckets that were different from the last sorting

00:33:29.460 event. Exactly. So my point is the fire in the furnace is indicative of providence, particularly

00:33:36.600 the form of providence that is adversity, heat. And that heat is what unifies, right? People

00:33:44.320 are coming to America. They were willing, Irish, Italian, English, willing to put these differences

00:33:50.300 aside because they had a common task and a common challenge that they had to rise up in order to

00:33:56.840 overcome. So the reality is now we have so much decadence, so much opulence, so much wealth and

00:34:04.420 ease and convenience and comforts that people are not no longer coming to a challenge, an

00:34:10.520 opportunity. They're coming to a handout. So you have a furnace that's no longer lit. There is no

00:34:15.860 fire you have instead of five or six closely related ingredients distinct but compatible

00:34:22.240 500 to 600 distantly related ingredients and and then you also have the furnace is getting real

00:34:30.380 congested very full and then the last factor is time there's no time wave wave wave of immigration

00:34:38.380 and it just doesn't stop it just doesn't like before it's like big wave everyone's upset the

00:34:44.100 irish are here nobody likes them everybody's upset literally discriminating we're not going

00:34:48.240 to hire you we're not going to hire you part of our churches it was tough it's like so and it was 1.00

00:34:51.440 a big wave it's like boom ton of irish people showing up we don't like it that makes me mad 1.00

00:34:59.560 and then a few decades go by and you're over it right we haven't that's one of the big missing 1.00

00:35:06.120 pieces and even to be fair with that a lot of them lived separately that's what made america

00:35:10.780 That's so good as well.

00:35:11.320 And that goes back to the space.

00:35:13.200 Exactly.

00:35:13.480 It was less congested.

00:35:14.380 So now you're adding new ingredients, not every few decades, but like every week, there's

00:35:22.140 another boat, there's another plane, there's another installment.

00:35:26.420 So there's no time, there's no fire, there's no room to go and kind of like you do you

00:35:33.500 over there and we'll do us over.

00:35:35.620 So there's no space.

00:35:36.920 It's congested. 1.00

00:35:38.040 there's no time because the immigrant is wave after wave after wave with no pause in between 1.00

00:35:42.620 there's no fire because everything's already settled there's no adversity there's no real 0.98

00:35:46.580 challenge you're coming for a handout rather than coming to work and the ingredients are not five or

00:35:52.320 six but several several hundred and they're distantly related yeah and in that backdrop

00:35:59.140 that's a long way of saying in that context you don't have a country you don't yeah and i would

00:36:06.080 just even loosely extend the analogy to say, the instructions, you could think of those,

00:36:11.360 the instructions on how to fasten a sword are similar to what we would call propositions or

00:36:15.900 creeds. And instructions are going to vary on ingredients. If you're making a sword out of

00:36:21.080 particular metals, there's going to be different instructions in terms of how you, at what point

00:36:25.640 do you blend the metals? What point do you heat the metals, et cetera? So that's another element.

00:36:31.060 And it brings us back just to this geopolitical strategy.

00:36:35.000 Okay, people might ask, well, why can't we be a propositional nation?

00:36:38.460 Why can't creeds just bind people?

00:36:41.020 And you can actually look at America. 0.99

00:36:42.560 Because people are different. 0.56

00:36:43.540 People are different.

00:36:44.380 And you know what?

00:36:45.220 Cite Iran in the 1950s, where we tried to do a regime change and implement Western ideals.

00:36:51.220 And it didn't last very long.

00:36:52.580 It lasted 25 years.

00:36:54.000 You can cite Iraq, Afghanistan.

00:36:56.380 The list goes on and on.

00:36:57.580 And all of these places, Vietnam, where America tries to say, it really is just proposition.

00:37:03.360 We're going to go and take it to them.

00:37:04.600 We're going to hand this book.

00:37:06.140 It's just a how to win.

00:37:07.580 It's just a formula.

00:37:08.440 And if they plug it in, anybody can plug and play.

00:37:11.500 Right.

00:37:12.040 And that turned out to be false.

00:37:13.460 Let's do this real quick.

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00:42:34.560 All right, we're back. All right. Well, what I hope we got across in that first segment

00:42:38.080 is that history is complicated. And we would speak of it. We would say we've had Christian

00:42:43.160 nationalism here in the past. We've had Sabbath laws that on a Sunday, stores can't be open.

00:42:47.740 Even still, here in Georgetown, Texas, you cannot buy liquor on a Sunday. We have laws still in the

00:42:52.400 books. We've had blasphemy laws. We've had Sunday laws. We've had a thoroughly Christian culture, 1.00

00:42:58.520 nation, laws, people, politicians in our past. And our goal, by God's grace, would be that we have

00:43:05.020 that again. But we also recognize there's so many different factors that come into that. So it'd be

00:43:10.320 easy to say, for example, well, America is rapidly declining as a Christian nation. We went from, 1.00

00:43:14.940 it was about 95% in the late 1950s to today, more like in the 60%. So America's apostatizing,

00:43:21.720 what's with all this atheism? Well, it didn't help that 30% now of our population has been imported 1.00

00:43:26.760 from countries that are not majority Christian. And so there's pieces of the pie that you have 0.98

00:43:32.100 to recognize and get to and say, okay, if we're going to have Christian nationalism, we have to

00:43:36.320 recognize that the ingredients that made it the first time, that created it the first time,

00:43:41.320 the context that brought this about, we no longer have that. And how is it that you bring out

00:43:47.100 the nationalism piece, a nation, but also the Christian piece? How do you achieve that in a 0.65

00:43:53.080 context that's so muddled by globalism? And the next question is, at the end of the day,

00:43:58.660 we are ultimately, at some level, the peanut gallery to the administration, the president,

00:44:02.520 the executive branch that is setting policy.

00:44:05.340 And right now, it would appear, I think, of terrorists specifically,

00:44:08.380 our intervention in Venezuela with Maduro, and the look to acquire Greenland,

00:44:13.360 President Trump's doctrine that will likely be continued by J.D. Vance

00:44:16.800 is looking more like a Western Hemisphere-dominating, imperialistic foreign policy. 0.94

00:44:23.420 We're going to get involved in Iraq. 0.92

00:44:25.500 We're going to bomb the heck out of your nuclear reactor sites on Israel's behalf. 0.87

00:44:30.120 Oh, you're a foreign president, and fentanyl is coming to our borders through ships from your shores? 0.93

00:44:36.460 Well, we'll go ahead and come in there in the middle of the night, and it was awesome, 0.93

00:44:39.860 and take you out of your bed in your pajamas and haul you up here and keep you here indefinitely.

00:44:45.000 Greenland, massive chunk of land. 0.56

00:44:47.000 Well, something something China.

00:44:48.980 We decided we need strategic access to it.

00:44:52.160 So we're aiming for Christianity and for nationalism. 0.57

00:44:55.460 But one of the things we have to recognize is that what's rapidly returning,

00:44:58.500 and, Tony, I want you to tie it to Manifest Destiny and the Monroe Doctrine,

00:45:02.880 is this idea that's always been underneath the surface

00:45:05.180 and it's come out at varying points that,

00:45:07.320 well, actually, this half of the world is ours.

00:45:09.340 And forget nationalism.

00:45:10.740 We're kind of coming for the whole enchilada.

00:45:12.740 Yeah, yeah, it's super interesting.

00:45:14.280 So just a point of history.

00:45:16.320 So President James Monroe, this would have been at the beginning

00:45:19.580 of the sort of 19th century, so the early 1800s,

00:45:23.920 basically created this idea.

00:45:27.140 it's what we call the Monroe Doctrine, but it's the idea that we didn't want European foreign

00:45:32.220 powers in America's backyard. And at that time, it was, you can think back, you know, Louisiana

00:45:37.460 Purchase and those things. Right, the French held this massive tract of land. You had Spanish in

00:45:42.680 the Caribbean and the British in the Caribbean. And so it was basically a doctrine for American

00:45:48.520 leaders to say, we have an incentive to own or have the sort of economic balance of power in

00:45:56.360 our favor in the Western Hemisphere. And this was sort of the prevailing doctrine with respect to

00:46:01.880 foreign policy and economic policy in the 19th century. And then you have this emergence of

00:46:07.580 this imperialistic figure that we call Theodore Roosevelt at the turn, the sort of late 19th

00:46:13.920 century turn of the 20th century. And he basically comes and he says, I want to make this more broad.

00:46:18.480 I think America, with our naval power, Roosevelt had a massive emphasis on sort of military,

00:46:23.360 sort of spending money on your military building up your navy so that we can make not only the

00:46:29.260 caribbean and just the continent of north america but all of the western hemisphere america's domain

00:46:34.900 america's backyard and so that extended into the pacific and that's the reason we were involved

00:46:39.680 in the philippines and japan which set obviously set the stage for world war ii but also in south

00:46:46.000 america in countries like venezuela and in the caribbean and in the broader atlantic region as

00:46:52.060 well. And so America has sort of operated under this mentality, even under a nationalistic frame,

00:46:57.320 which is, it was actually more nationalist than it was imperialist. It was just America's the

00:47:02.160 greatest nation, we're the biggest nation, and we ought to have control in our hands and everything.

00:47:07.620 It wasn't necessarily about annexation, although it was that at times, the Louisiana Purchase,

00:47:13.220 annexation of Hawaii. But for example, in Cuba, you had Spanish-Cuban or Spanish-American War,

00:47:20.020 And America freed Cuba from the Spanish and then immediately retreated and left.

00:47:24.400 Similar situation in the Philippines.

00:47:25.900 America gets involved in the Philippine insurgency and then immediately leaves.

00:47:30.040 And so in one sense, it wasn't this pure imperialistic frame of like, we want to acquire all of these territories and we want them to be America.

00:47:38.900 It was more so of we love our nation.

00:47:41.620 We think our nation's best interest should be seen in our hemisphere.

00:47:44.740 And so we're going to ensure that geopolitically that those things occur.

00:47:48.080 And so it's just different.

00:47:48.980 And it's interesting if you just bring that today and say, okay, where is America in, for example, like desiring to purchase Greenland, is America being imperialistic or is it being nationalistic?

00:48:00.700 And you can kind of see how it's both, right?

00:48:03.160 In one sense, America is saying, no, actually, we love America.

00:48:06.300 We're proud to be American and we want access to oil in Venezuela or oil in Greenland or all of their natural minerals.

00:48:13.540 And going back to this idea of like, when imperialism breaks down, it's because a nation

00:48:19.640 or group of people look at the system and say, the balance of power is not in our favor.

00:48:25.040 And you can call it whatever you want.

00:48:26.620 You can call it the EU.

00:48:27.660 You can call it NATO.

00:48:28.520 But the reality is that Americans are looking at this global system and saying, this isn't

00:48:32.880 fair to us.

00:48:33.840 And so the natural implication of things like Greenland, things like Venezuela, is we're

00:48:39.140 actually going to turn ourselves off to the system.

00:48:41.580 The system's going to say, oh, you're breaking away from us.

00:48:43.820 So that's the EU, for example, and the tariffs that Trump leveraged on the EU in the sort of Greenland negotiation.

00:48:50.060 It's America basically saying we don't want to participate anymore.

00:48:53.020 And we'll eventually make enemies as a consequence.

00:48:57.360 Yeah.

00:48:57.600 Someone asked a good question.

00:48:58.720 What are the differences of an imperialistic?

00:49:01.240 So if you're an empire and you have your goals as an empire, how do those differ from globalism?

00:49:07.200 Because you could look at the two at a high level and say, well, it seems like globalism

00:49:10.340 and imperialism, it's a lot of trade, it's a lot of interconnectivity, and it's a lot

00:49:14.300 of foreign relations.

00:49:15.160 And I think the big missing element that we have to consider here, and you didn't see

00:49:18.940 it as much with these older empires, is global capitalism.

00:49:22.560 So what separates imperialism as a doctrine from the goals of globalism as a doctrine?

00:49:27.000 And globalism, the reason it's so nefarious is that it seeks the accrual of capital at

00:49:33.220 all costs.

00:49:33.780 So I think of manufacturing.

00:49:34.860 If you're imperial and you're thinking about America first, you're saying, I'm not going to offshore my manufacturing of cars, of this, of that, because ultimately what that's going to do is it's going to take American and American workers and put them out of a job.

00:49:48.280 But when you have a capitalist, globalist mindset, you look at that and you say, well, actually, if I take this plant and I move it to Mexico, I can manufacture cars for 23% cheaper.

00:49:57.520 Now, sure, there will be people that will be unemployed.

00:50:00.480 There will be entire towns that were built around manufacturing steel or manufacturing cars or manufacturing electronics.

00:50:05.900 They would no longer exist anymore.

00:50:07.720 They would come on hard times.

00:50:08.820 But the bottom line would go up, and so it's worth it.

00:50:11.740 And that's the critical distinction and something that has to be kept in the conversation.

00:50:15.920 It's not just, well, we want to grow and we want to see parts of Greenland be ours,

00:50:19.720 and we want a presence in South America, and we want to intervene here.

00:50:23.460 We shouldn't be doing that on the behalf of big corporations.

00:50:26.540 Smedley Butler, a great U.S. Marine back early even in the 1900s, he himself said, he said, I was basically the hired gun, the armed guard for big corporations.

00:50:37.060 When big corporations get their hands in and they control parts of the economy, you think of smaller countries, there are corporations in there that are massive proportions of that country's economy.

00:50:48.140 And so then they want something or they're risking tariffs or they're risking embargo.

00:50:52.420 They're absolutely going to use every tool at their disposal to shift the balance in their favor.

00:50:58.320 And so that's where you distinguish and say that's corporations, private corporations, looking to grab capital, looking to make the GDP go up, looking for just capital and money gains versus an imperialistic mindset says we want this because it's security.

00:51:13.940 We want this like I think of Venezuela.

00:51:16.200 There's a little bit of oil in there, but let's take the reason as stated.

00:51:20.280 They're bringing drugs to our shores, and those drugs are killing Americans,

00:51:24.480 and we've had enough, and we're cutting it off at the source.

00:51:27.000 That's two vastly different ways of thinking about it.

00:51:29.500 I want you because I want your stuff, and I want you to be a tax farm,

00:51:32.840 and your people are so poor they'll make batteries for pennies on the dollar.

00:51:37.120 Globalist. 0.98

00:51:37.900 Hey, we're disposing the president of this country because he is a tyrant, 0.69

00:51:41.860 because he tortures his own people, and he refuses to do anything about the cartels

00:51:45.660 that are flooding our borders, imperialistic.

00:51:47.940 Two very different things with a very different outcome.

00:51:51.140 Yeah, and it's kind of been both,

00:51:52.860 at least through the latter half of the 1900s.

00:51:56.460 It was, especially after, during the Cold War,

00:51:59.240 America's expanding.

00:52:00.100 I mean, we probably have military bases,

00:52:02.240 hundreds of military bases in countries around the world.

00:52:05.060 So you think about imperially,

00:52:06.780 from a security measure, America's got it covered.

00:52:10.060 But at the same time, it was actually globalism.

00:52:12.440 It actually was, and we're partnering.

00:52:14.620 And a lot of times, from what I've read, it was actually, that was a mutual exchange.

00:52:19.220 It was, we'll open free trade to you if you allow us to establish two military bases.

00:52:23.120 And so they're always going hand in hand of globalism and outsourcing labor overseas to

00:52:28.660 these cheap nations, while also leveraging, for example, in Japan, leveraging in Vietnam,

00:52:34.340 these outposts, if you will, for America sort of geopolitically.

00:52:37.900 There's this incredible story.

00:52:39.040 I was just learning about it.

00:52:40.060 Japan in the early 1800s had no foreign trade.

00:52:42.840 They were basically locked down.

00:52:44.000 They didn't trade with other countries, and the U.S. sailed ships to their shores and demanded at the point of cannon point, it wouldn't necessarily be gunpoint, demanded the point of cannon point that they open up, and it was that process of opening up Japan, which had been its own nation, not on the global stage, that was profoundly humiliating to them, and then as they struggled to compete, that's what drove them, beginning of World War II, under pressure from Russia in the north, they were like, we don't have enough to compete. 0.53

00:53:10.300 we need to go out. And so that's when you see Japan become an imperial power. It takes over

00:53:15.100 China, commits these terrible human rights violations that we all recognize now. And 0.93

00:53:19.280 that's literally because we shaled ships to their shore, pointed cannons up at them and said,

00:53:24.400 we want your stuff. Whoa, wait a minute. We've gone way off track. If that seems to accomplish

00:53:30.300 any type of goals that benefit the American people. Right. You get this emergence of

00:53:33.420 firstly nationalism and then a desire for nationalism to sort of create an imperialistic

00:53:39.460 attitude overseas. And you're totally right. America set the course in the Pacific. I mean,

00:53:43.660 even if you predate World War II and Pearl Harbor by 20 years, and there's already conflicts over

00:53:48.860 the Philippines, and Japan's thinking the same thing America's thinking, actually, which is,

00:53:53.100 this is our backyard. Japan, South China Sea, this is all of our backyard, and we need access to it.

00:53:59.060 We should have our Navy there. And America's sort of fighting back and forth with this

00:54:03.100 actually meaningfully smaller in terms of landmass nation, but in sort of its propositions and its

00:54:08.720 cohesiveness um it was uh yeah it was very similar great all right let's do this um let's

00:54:15.720 do some concluding thoughts if there's anything else historical or something like that that uh

00:54:20.640 Antonio or Wes wanted to share and then we're going to go ahead and skip uh towards the end

00:54:25.340 we've got a couple of super chats one of them was uh very generous and so I want to make sure that

00:54:29.380 we emphasize that um Wes any concluding thoughts like I I'll just say for myself um I think that

00:54:37.080 imperialism christian imperialism is not only permissible i think it's inevitable um but i

00:54:44.420 think that you can have nationalism without imperialism i think you can have nationalism

00:54:49.660 if it's a protected core and that's historically has not happened um so you can have nationalism

00:54:55.660 without imperialism you can have nationalism perhaps this is debatable but perhaps with

00:55:00.720 imperialism the one thing you can't have is imperialism at the cost of nationalism and i

00:55:05.940 felt, I feel like whether it's, you know, the Roman Empire, the British Empire, or what's

00:55:10.120 happening to, you know, today, or really in the last hundred years with America, if you

00:55:14.940 go and try to take the world, but you erode the core stock of your own people, imperialism

00:55:22.120 externally, right, we have some measure of provinces and control and authority externally

00:55:29.020 and other nations out there is very different than imperialism internally, we're importing

00:55:34.280 all the nations here in our own nation, in our own backyard. And I feel like that's what we've

00:55:38.600 done. And that is not sustainable. So the idea that we're going to be some kind of powerful

00:55:43.820 imperial force in the world. Meanwhile, we also don't have a country here at home and we've

00:55:50.040 imported everybody here. And we are not doing a very good job of getting along and a lot of people 1.00

00:55:55.960 are not compatible. I think that that has a short shelf life and that it's not sustainable. So I

00:56:01.860 I feel like the most pressing issue right now in terms of priority is nationalism for the West, recovering a national identity and that predominantly having to do with people, not just propositions, but people.

00:56:15.120 And then for those nations that can achieve that and are more powerful and a positive influence in the world, then I think imperialism, it comes back as a viable option on the table.

00:56:24.980 So that's my assessment. Let's end by asking you guys, do you think that both nationalism and imperialism, Christian nationalism and a Christian imperialist element, is it possible? Can you do both? 0.53

00:56:39.240 Well, I would just say I think Wes synthesized to a fine point how we can – the lens through which we can actually view imperialistic activities, whether it's Greenland or Venezuela, which I think boils down to interests.

00:56:54.020 Like you can talk about corporate interests.

00:56:56.100 Why exactly are you engaging in the behavior that you're engaging in geopolitically or with respect to your foreign policy?

00:57:02.560 And I just think my analysis of America today is just pure skepticism, even if it's like purported national security, you know, the lens through or the framing that the Trump administration provides.

00:57:14.320 I'm always a little bit skeptical because I know they have donors in their corner.

00:57:18.180 I know they have people that are, you know, whether it's mining companies or oil companies, whatever the case is, shipping companies, that, hey, there's actually some economic benefit to Greenland capture.

00:57:30.280 And that's the real – now, of course, the American people are going to buy into national security, and you've got to be able to protect the North Pole and these hypersonic missiles from China.

00:57:39.140 But whatever the case is, I think America and West, you sort of frame – you labeled it as like consolidation.

00:57:45.580 And I think America needs to go through this period of consolidation before we could ever emerge from this just skepticism of our foreign policy, which is to say, do we actually believe the people are represented in government?

00:57:57.640 Do we actually believe that the nation's interests are America first or the Trump administration or whoever comes after that their policies are actually America first?

00:58:07.000 Until we actually have an America and we can actually define what an American is, there's always going to be these interests that aren't aligned, right?

00:58:16.080 And so in the body politic, voting in these liberal politicians who then have big corporate interests, and then they're just like fighting in Washington about, you know, what big donor gets what sort of a handout.

00:58:29.080 And so, yeah, so my sort of analysis, I know a lot of people are like Trump maxing on Greenland.

00:58:35.500 My analysis is general skepticism, again, because I don't believe that we're even truly a nation in the proper sense as of now in terms of just the things happening politically.

00:58:46.040 So we need to get that first.

00:58:47.960 We need to consolidate and define our idea of what an American is

00:58:52.200 and what America First policy looks like.

00:58:54.220 And then we can talk about, okay, now how does that transfer to America First foreign policy?

00:59:00.060 Yeah, Wes.

00:59:00.600 The way I see it, we're coming up on 250 years of America.

00:59:04.240 So this July, it'll be 250 years.

00:59:06.280 I recognize that the Constitution wasn't until 1778.

00:59:09.340 But 250 years since we declared our independence from Britain.

00:59:12.260 But the time that's gone on since then, we've barely had, in some senses, a moment to breathe.

00:59:16.760 We had the Revolutionary War.

00:59:18.180 Britain comes back for seconds, the War of 1812.

00:59:20.800 Fifty years later, the American Civil War. 0.64

00:59:23.240 Reconstruction. 0.94

00:59:24.100 World War I, which was not on our shores, which was helpful. 0.92

00:59:27.020 But then, 1929, the stock market crashes.

00:59:29.640 The Great Depression.

00:59:30.700 World War II.

00:59:31.800 The Korean War.

00:59:33.080 The Vietnam War.

00:59:33.900 The Cold War.

00:59:34.940 Then we had the Cultural Revolution. 0.68

00:59:36.640 We had the Jesus Movement.

00:59:37.820 We also had the hippie movement.

00:59:38.940 And then we've had, I would say it was with Biden's administration especially, immigration all through that time.

00:59:44.340 America in its 250 years has not had a moment to breathe, has not had a century to settle down and say,

00:59:51.240 these are the people that make up our cohesive stock.

00:59:54.560 It's been influx, it's been outflux, it's been wars, it's been trials, it's been difficulties.

00:59:58.980 And so imperialism, of course, can be done, and Americans, of all people, we're the greatest to ever do it, and we'll do it great.

01:00:05.660 But we need time. We need 50 years, 100 years to say we can't be the peacekeeper out there.

01:00:13.280 When here back at home, billions, hundreds of billions of dollars are being wasted in fraud.

01:00:18.080 Forget even the people that don't belong here. We've lost control of our finances. We've lost

01:00:22.320 control of security. And we are getting steps to getting that back. Homicides are at the low.

01:00:26.740 I think objectively, America, as far as safety goes, we're getting back there. We need decades 0.98

01:00:31.640 of that. And after we do that for decades, then I think we arm our British brothers and sisters

01:00:36.540 that are fighting their tyrannical government in Britain, in Germany, in France. But for now,

01:00:41.620 we've had 250 years. We've gone back and forth. A lot has happened. We need time. We're still a

01:00:46.340 new nation, a new people. And that's my take on it. Well said. All right. First Super Chat today

01:00:51.840 comes from Dapper Dan. He gave us a Super Chat saying, something I've been thinking about lately.

01:00:57.220 tell me if I'm off base. Our current liberal order seeks to be domestically libertarian

01:01:04.060 and geographically intrusive. Christian nationalism requires the opposite. I think 1.00

01:01:10.840 that's insightful. I think there's a lot there. And part of where we've kind of broken away in

01:01:15.800 this Christian nationalist discussion, we were kind of early on that train in 2021, 2022, and

01:01:24.740 having theological arguments with other Christians,

01:01:27.580 they're like, Christian nationalism is terrible, 0.73

01:01:29.420 this is bad, it's not biblical,

01:01:30.760 and we were very early on

01:01:32.340 on the pro-Christian nationalist side of the aisle.

01:01:35.800 We were on team Christian nationalism

01:01:37.580 and defending that theologically, politically,

01:01:40.260 these kinds of things,

01:01:41.420 but I will admit that rather quickly,

01:01:44.920 it took a while for these things to be exposed

01:01:47.840 and fully revealed in a clear fashion,

01:01:50.680 but I'd say within the first two years

01:01:52.840 of the Christian nationalist debate,

01:01:54.740 By the time we got to 2023 and certainly 2024, by the time we got to the end of 2024, what became blatantly apparent is that at least a good half, if not more, if not even the majority, 75% of the guys who did side with being Christian nationalists, Christian nationalism for them was simply a theocratic libertarianism on the home front, domestic, for the nation.

01:02:23.040 So taking imperialism aside and taking foreign involvement aside for a moment and just looking at how the country itself views itself, how it operates, what laws are in place, what traditions, what virtues, what values.

01:02:39.020 A lot of the Christian nationalist guys, Christian nationalism was simply a euphemism.

01:02:43.780 It was a placeholder for theocratic libertarianism.

01:02:46.340 What they meant by Christian nationalism was really just free trade, loose economic policies that allow for basically unbridled capitalism to where you can make money as quick as possible.

01:03:01.960 Like a lot of these guys were, yeah, we're nationalists, but economically 100% we're globalist.

01:03:07.000 100% we're globalist.

01:03:08.860 And with the nationalist piece, a lot of them weren't even really that concerned about immigration.

01:03:14.240 They thought it should be legal. But they were like, yeah, so long as it's legal, you know, oh, these are legal citizens. Don't worry. As long as it was legal, you know, you could have a ton of them so long as it had an economic benefit in America, whether it eroded the founding stock of America or not.

01:03:31.520 That was of little consequence. And so I think you're right on the money in terms of saying

01:03:36.740 that last part where you said seeks to be domestically libertarian and geographically

01:03:43.820 intrusive. I think that that's a lot of what we're seeing right now is strong hand, right,

01:03:51.160 a firm hand when it comes to the rest of the world and America's treatment and involvement,

01:03:56.120 but very very loose hand here in the country itself on the domestic front you know just you

01:04:04.960 know we don't really need that many laws you don't need that many rules and basically you know as

01:04:10.560 long as there's not chapter and verse you know something explicitly in the Bible that forbids it

01:04:15.560 then it's free game especially if it has some kind of economic benefit and I think that I think that's

01:04:22.540 And so the last part of the comment, he said Christian nationalism requires the opposite. 0.79

01:04:27.100 And I guess what I'm saying is I agree with you as a Christian nationalist.

01:04:31.360 The unfortunate reality, though, is I would say about 50 to 75 percent of the guys who took up the moniker of Christian nationalism over the last four years, they would strongly disagree with that statement.

01:04:44.040 They would say that Christian nationalism is basically political libertarianism.

01:04:48.960 That's what it is.

01:04:50.320 And we would disagree.

01:04:50.980 We say Christian nationalism actually is a strong state, right?

01:04:54.320 We're kind of shedding some of the conservative tropes and cliches and stereotypes of like, well, I'm a conservative, so that just means small government.

01:05:07.480 Our government should be a lot smaller in some arenas, right? 0.60

01:05:11.540 A lot smaller when it comes to financial handouts for Somalians, right?

01:05:16.040 I'd like to see that a lot smaller.

01:05:18.160 but the reality is that it's not that's a false dichotomy of small versus big as christian

01:05:23.980 nationalists what we should care about most is not small versus big but righteous versus wicked

01:05:29.580 and the reality is if we are to have a a righteous civil magistrate a godly civil magistrate what it

01:05:36.460 would probably look like initially is a government shrinking almost entirely in some regards like

01:05:41.520 federal aid and welfare and these kinds of things but actually getting bigger in other regards

01:05:46.160 because we're so lawless and so out of hand there's so much degeneracy it would be actually

01:05:50.980 a bigger state um in terms of cracking down on pornography a bigger state in terms of cracking

01:05:55.920 down on usury a bigger state in terms of uh cracking down on immigration and like like we

01:06:01.040 for instance um the bill that passed to fund ice that's a bigger state these are guys who are going

01:06:08.560 to be employed by the state paid tax dollars it's like more money bigger budget more employees

01:06:15.500 bigger state. But we would say that's Christian nationalism because we have an invasion problem 0.97

01:06:21.080 and we need to protect the nation. And so that's not libertarian. There's nothing libertarian about 0.59

01:06:26.140 it. That's actually saying, no, it's time to be meticulous and absolutely intentional and involved.

01:06:33.660 So yes, I think true Christian nationalism in many cases, not all, but in many cases would be 0.88

01:06:38.940 the opposite of domestic libertarianism. The unfortunate reality is that we've got about 0.60

01:06:44.400 50 to 75% of the guys who have taken up the Christian nationalist moniker who would actually

01:06:49.800 say the opposite, and that's been muddying the waters and making things very unclear.

01:06:54.800 Yeah, I would just quickly say, I think also this idea of being domestically libertarian and

01:06:59.700 geopolitically intrusive is actually one of the sources of our immigration problems as well as

01:07:04.420 America gets involved and the West more broadly gets involved overseas, you're creating wars,

01:07:09.500 you're creating conflict. These regime changes are creating a refugee problem. And then at home, 0.73

01:07:16.820 you're actually pretty culturally lenient. These people look to America and they say,

01:07:20.600 oh, I see a better life where I can practice my religion. I can sort of eat what I want and eat

01:07:26.180 what I don't want and live where I want and live within my community even in America. And so we're

01:07:31.700 creating the problem, creating the sort of disturbances overseas, and then driving people 0.68

01:07:36.900 to the shores of Western nations. Right. Well said. Another super chat from Dapper Dan. He said,

01:07:42.060 I do think that there is an inverse relationship between nations enforcing their own culture at

01:07:48.260 home and enforcing that same culture abroad. The latter tends to create reliance on universal

01:07:57.220 principles, he put that in quotes, everywhere. I think that that's also true. Yeah, the universalizing

01:08:03.480 tendency in Western peoples is, it cannot be overstated how much damage that is done, that

01:08:09.120 there can be this tendency to say, well, I'm generally, and Westerners and white people are

01:08:13.020 like this, I'm generally altruistic, I'm generally welcoming, generally unassuming, generally

01:08:17.820 non-judgmental. I think those are actually generally virtues in a homogenous society.

01:08:22.400 We take those and then say, and I think this of the entire world and all other people, I would

01:08:26.940 expect to act in this way. You universalize a particular, and that particular came about in a

01:08:33.060 specific historical context of Christianity in Europe, in a homogenous society, but then you

01:08:38.760 take that and you stretch it out and say, and everybody should be like this, and we'll be like

01:08:42.040 this. In this context, that's nothing like the Middle Ages. Well, you just universalized a

01:08:47.280 particular element, and it's actually destructive. I think that's a huge factor in getting especially

01:08:52.520 white people to wake up and say, this actually is a good thing generally, but in particular,

01:08:56.940 it's actually not the best that I'm the most welcoming and unassuming that I would never

01:09:01.380 have any type of prejudgment about someone else that's actually a liability right the reality is

01:09:06.880 is it all comes down to the final boss the final boss is the the modern expressions of liberalism

01:09:12.260 20th century liberalism the heart of liberalism the engine that makes it per is egalitarianism

01:09:17.940 and the west is completely vulnerable and has bought in hook line and sinker into egalitarianism

01:09:24.260 when we look at the world, we just see interchangeable widgets. We think that the

01:09:28.500 blank slate fallacy, that it's simply a matter of education and being informed or being trained 0.99

01:09:35.340 or being enlightened, or even the Christians, we buy into the same thing. We say, well, it just 0.99

01:09:39.940 has to do with being converted. And here's the reality. The gospel absolutely changes people.

01:09:47.220 But even when it comes to the Christian conception of conversion, when a man is born again, he's

01:09:53.060 still grace does not eradicate or do away with, replace nature. Grace doesn't replace nature. It

01:09:59.400 elevates nature. So when a man comes to Christ, and even when that's genuine regeneration, he's

01:10:04.740 still a man. When a woman comes to Christ, she's still a woman. If a Haitian comes to Christ, 0.96

01:10:08.520 they're still Haitian. If an American comes to Christ, they're still American. And some of these 0.97

01:10:12.460 things, we think that there's just this blueprint in the Bible that's universal, that's global,

01:10:18.080 that just you plug and play. This will work in Haiti. And the reality is that's just not true.

01:10:22.820 That's an oversimplification to say, you know, the Bible actually doesn't just get down to morality and as it pertains to legislation and laws, but it even gets into forms of government.

01:10:32.680 And the Bible actually gives us an explicit one universal form of government that every single nation should adhere to because it's morally superior to all the other ones.

01:10:42.160 It's a pass or fail system, black or white.

01:10:44.340 And what is that form of government?

01:10:46.040 It's a constitutional republic.

01:10:48.460 I like constitutional republics.

01:10:50.020 I actually think that it is an ideal form of government, but I'm able to recognize that constitutional republics don't hang in midair, that a constitutional republic was built in America on the back of a thousand years of Christendom that was achieved predominantly through a very strong hand in cleaning up.

01:11:10.800 i mean the streets and i'm not saying i'm not i'm being descriptive not prescriptive here but you

01:11:17.200 have to remember in europe the streets under christian monarchs were running with blood the

01:11:21.380 guillotine the guillotine was working overtime the degenerates of their society were being put to death

01:11:26.900 on a daily basis and after a very long time of employing christian laws tough on crime policies

01:11:33.720 there were people who were put into exile there were people who were put to death for this for

01:11:38.180 that for the other after a thousand years of that of sweeping up the nation putting things in order

01:11:45.040 and cultivating a a very very christian stock at that point and here's the thing it wasn't even

01:11:52.700 all of them it's not and then europe had a constitutional republic no then the best of the

01:11:57.720 best and the most of the people with the most religious convictions right the pilgrims the

01:12:03.740 Puritans, the Covenanters, a subset of England, after England had been shaped and formed by a

01:12:12.440 thousand years of Christian monarchy, a subset of that, the best of the best, then came to America 0.51

01:12:18.820 and said, you know what? I don't think we need such a firm hand with the civil magistrate and

01:12:24.500 ruling over us. Men must not be governed. Oh yeah, you're right. Men didn't need to be governed 1.00

01:12:29.880 in the 1600s in America with the best of the best having been shaped as the descendants of

01:12:37.160 a thousand years of Christa. Those men actually required less governance. But that's not where

01:12:42.540 we are today. And so my point is, in all of it, is to say the idea of egalitarianism, that everyone

01:12:48.960 is the same. Because if everyone's the same, then it's formulaic. All you have to do is find the

01:12:56.120 right formula. And if you found it, then you plug it in anywhere, right? The formula, if this is the

01:13:01.960 true holy grail formula for forms of government, for whatever, fill in the blank, then it should

01:13:07.200 work. It should work in Haiti. It should work in America. It should work in Greenland. It should

01:13:10.840 work in the Sudan. And what we're finding, and sadly, a lot of people still haven't put two

01:13:18.000 and two together, connected the dots and discovered this. But if we're honest, what we should be

01:13:23.480 finding, what we should be realizing is that's not the world that God actually made. God did not

01:13:28.160 create an egalitarian world. Egalitarianism, again, being the engine of liberalism, especially

01:13:33.340 20th century liberalism, the latter expressions, liberalism being the final boss. And so that

01:13:39.380 ultimately has to be uprooted. We have to find a way to restore an understanding of nature, natural

01:13:45.560 law, natural affections, the order of Morris, hierarchy, these kinds of things. And what

01:13:51.540 you're really doing in that is you're not just advocating for for what works because egalitarianism

01:13:57.840 and liberalism doesn't work so you're not just advocating for a worldview that works but what

01:14:02.560 you're also doing is you are defending the world as god actually made it it's a defense of the

01:14:08.620 creator and the creator's design and and so you don't just have to prove it and this is important

01:14:13.860 because we don't want to just be right we want to be compelling we want to win um and and in winning

01:14:19.360 you can't just prove that it's true you have to prove that it's good that the right thing is the

01:14:24.360 good thing that the true thing is the the thing that's also the good the true and the beautiful

01:14:30.120 it can't just be proving the true facts don't care about your feelings well you know what feelings

01:14:35.080 often don't care about the facts and so you actually have to appeal right the passions and

01:14:40.540 the pathos of the minister of the preacher of the christian of the apologist to actually appeal to 0.90

01:14:45.720 the feelings the emotions of a person and say hey here are the facts oh i see you uh you're a libtard 0.85

01:14:51.260 and don't care about them whatsoever okay but here are your feelings let me show you how these facts 0.89

01:14:55.800 they're not only true they're the true the good and the beautiful we need to find a way to compel

01:15:02.360 people to see that the world god made is not an egalitarian world it is a hierarchical world

01:15:07.180 and hierarchy means distinction and distinctions bring color and and difference and beauty into

01:15:14.680 the world that it's a positive thing and people must realize that until that's accomplished

01:15:19.540 we lose yeah and i just want to as a matter of history too on the idea of like exporting

01:15:25.480 universal principles on this egalitarian basis i think american leaders have kind of realized that

01:15:31.200 that doesn't work and you can look at that happen slowly slowly in the 70s and 80s but i think of

01:15:36.420 china china is a good example america opens trade with china and within 25 years they're like the

01:15:41.560 global power that we're now sort of fighting because there was no real basis outside of sort

01:15:47.560 of economics. And the lowest common denominator, you can think about it, think about the global

01:15:51.560 balance of power. And it's really like, I mean, we can reduce this a little bit and it is

01:15:55.900 reductionist, but there's really only like three topics as sort of the lowest common denominator

01:16:01.060 basis by which we partner with other nations. It's like, hey, do you like money? Do you want

01:16:05.000 free trade? Hey, what are your stances on Israel? And there may be one or two others that are

01:16:10.220 relevant but how do you feel about child labor right no there that's a good point though they're

01:16:16.000 the last one i think would also be like uh and and will you be um will you fly a trans flag

01:16:21.300 yeah no exactly so it's like but and that really is what it comes down to is like

01:16:25.560 there's because we can't actually agree with these nations on these deeper sort of christian

01:16:30.500 biblical precepts we've just basically reduced everything to four things and hey if you're good

01:16:35.300 with that we'll partner with you we're happy to link arms and then it's like lo and behold we 0.87

01:16:39.240 build up al-qaeda and then we're fighting a war against them lo and behold we build up china and 0.93

01:16:42.660 now we're in a trade war with them because we have no basis to actually we have no christian 0.98

01:16:46.300 government we have no lens to actually look through and look through and evaluate nations

01:16:51.660 who want to partner with us and say are the is this good is this to the good of their nation and

01:16:55.780 to the good of our nation there's no natural basis by which that's happening and this all

01:16:59.880 obviously we can spirals into corruption and politics but you see the point being this is why

01:17:05.520 this experiment failed. Because this is fundamentally, as you said, Joel, not the way

01:17:09.740 that God made the world. Amen. All right, big super chat, very generous, very kind from Deacon

01:17:15.120 St. John. We appreciate you. Thank you. This is a longtime supporter of the show. Appreciate you

01:17:20.480 very much. He said, on the topic of nationalism, which culture should we look to for an example

01:17:26.500 to emulate, modern or historical? In modern times, I'm thinking about how the Amish structure their

01:17:33.580 homes and economy they are clandestine uh though and say it again clandestine clandestine though

01:17:43.120 and not overtly conquering yeah so this kind of gets back great question uh but it kind of gets

01:17:49.520 back to what i was just saying a moment ago um i i think that unfortunately i i just i don't think

01:17:55.380 it's that simple i don't think there is a universal it's not again i'm dating i don't know why i'm

01:18:00.980 giving these examples and dating myself today but uh you remember the game genie back in the day

01:18:06.180 this was with like nes you know the original nintendo and you could you you would put it in

01:18:11.000 where the cartridges would go and and then you would put the game inside of the game genie and

01:18:15.520 it would like basically you know break the code and you'd be able to you know hack the game and

01:18:21.420 have you know either infinite lives or you know this that and the other you could beat any game

01:18:26.180 you know that there was with the game and did you plug that into your telegram or

01:18:30.120 copper wire it was like a floppy disk right yeah uh yeah i mean it basically was at that point yeah

01:18:36.620 um that's that's pretty much what it was uh so anyways the game genie was like this this

01:18:41.860 universal hack and i guess what i'm trying to say what i was saying earlier about egalitarianism

01:18:47.840 and the whole liberal sentiment is that there's not a universal hack now there is a universal law

01:18:54.500 we're not relativists we're christians after all so we believe in the transcendent we do believe

01:18:59.720 that there is an absolute god and therefore absolutes absolute morals and these kinds of

01:19:04.620 things but what the bible doesn't always spell out and this is where biblicism fails right this

01:19:10.300 is part of what we were trying to get at in our debate uh that we recently had last week where

01:19:14.680 biblicism fails in the chapter chapter and verse mentality is you know there is no chapter and

01:19:19.440 verse that says thou shall not drink water out of the toilet but we don't do it because we don't

01:19:24.400 actually need an explicit, you know, biblical condemnation or prohibition, we can just choose 0.91

01:19:28.900 not to be retarded. We can just choose to, you know, use rationale and reason and logic and 0.79

01:19:33.120 nature and these kinds of things and say, I don't have to be stupid. And so here's my point. There 0.99

01:19:38.120 are universal virtues, absolutes, laws, morality. There is such a thing as absolute morality.

01:19:45.720 But the path in which that morality is attained, that's where I think that there is,

01:19:51.580 there's room for prudential wisdom. Room for prudential wisdom. How a nation, so just like

01:20:01.740 a father in the home, you need to have, the standard is the standard, right? The standard

01:20:07.580 is the standard. You can't change the standard because it's set forward by God. And so for me,

01:20:11.400 I'm a father, I have five children, and I have the same moral absolute standards for all five

01:20:17.480 of my children be holy as he is holy, right? Like we're going to seek to be Christ-like,

01:20:22.680 and I'm not presenting a different Jesus for each of my children. There's one Jesus, the true Jesus,

01:20:26.760 and we want to be like him, and he's the standard for all five of my children. But how I hold their

01:20:32.460 hand with each of these children and walk them to Jesus and walk them towards the standard

01:20:37.640 and improve in that journey is different. That's where it gets tailored and customized and

01:20:44.020 particular based on that child, their strengths, their weaknesses, their personality, their

01:20:49.240 disposition, these kinds of things. And nations are the same. Civil magistrates, the Christian prince

01:20:54.660 or Christian princes should be civil fathers. The Puritans talked about this. The reformers

01:20:59.240 talked about this. The Catholic divines and patristics talked about this. It is a fatherly

01:21:03.800 role. And so as a father with your citizens, civil father with citizens, so too a familial father in

01:21:09.760 the home with his children. The standard is the standard. So there is a blueprint in that regard

01:21:15.020 what we're trying to achieve, but the path to it is going to be customized. There is no universal

01:21:21.580 path. The path for Haiti to become like Jesus in a civil realm, in the civil regard, is going to

01:21:30.340 look different than the path for Pakistan, you know, the path for Canada. And that has to be 0.66

01:21:37.400 acknowledged. And that's because God made a world that isn't steamrolled into one, but rather has

01:21:44.060 variants and distinctions, and it has to be acknowledged. And if it's not, then you are

01:21:52.820 ultimately just working against the grain, and it's simply not viable.

01:21:58.940 We got two Rumble Super Chats to go to, but one last piece on that is, this is where you get guys,

01:22:04.780 They're always looking back to some period of history.

01:22:06.980 They become 1930s Germany's guys or the southern states in the Civil War.

01:22:11.140 And they pick this time period and think, well, they had the perfect solution and we've just got to do what they did.

01:22:16.360 Totally ignoring all the different historical factors that made that successful, not successful, whatever it was in its context.

01:22:24.040 We can't LARP as any number of nationalist movements, counter-revolutionaries.

01:22:29.100 We can't do that.

01:22:29.880 none of them lived in a world 1.00

01:22:31.780 like we live in now with work visas

01:22:33.680 and international travel we have to

01:22:35.800 look forward and forge something new and

01:22:37.700 that's a lot more difficult it's easy to throw the

01:22:39.740 uniform on it's easy to wave the confederate

01:22:42.020 flag sons of the old republic

01:22:43.660 that's actually not that hard at all and you

01:22:45.660 kind of look cool to be puritan maxine

01:22:47.720 puritan maxine whatever everybody

01:22:49.840 has a thing you know it's the amish

01:22:51.720 it's the puritans it's the confederates

01:22:53.560 it's weimar germany or whatever and there's

01:22:55.620 good things from each of those but i think what we're saying

01:22:57.640 is timeless timely timeless

01:22:59.520 timely right so timeless the standard timely the path to achieving the standard yeah that's the

01:23:05.580 and i would just say i do think that is something that's worthy of calling out which is it's a

01:23:09.580 historical error and you notice it's uh it always happens to the it's always attributed to sort of

01:23:15.140 the loser of any major conflict it's like well if they would have won because and it's a historical

01:23:20.580 hermeneutic by which you look at everything that happened after a single event and think that it

01:23:24.880 was all causal, that it was all deterministic, that if the North won the Civil War, then we

01:23:30.400 would get communism. And the reality of history is it's not that simple. You have to really,

01:23:38.160 and I love the way you put it, Wes, you really have to, it is incumbent upon us to do the work

01:23:42.500 of looking back into history, grabbing the good ideas, synthesizing, seeing through all of the

01:23:47.640 muck, seeing through the propaganda and the psyops to say, what's applicable for us? What do we apply

01:23:53.500 and prudence as Christians, and that's a daunting thought.

01:23:57.440 I think it's the harder work that has to be done.

01:23:59.220 A lot of people don't want to think that it's that hard, but it's the reality.

01:24:02.220 Well, because it requires wisdom, and I think in some ways, 1.00

01:24:05.000 the chapter and verse Biblicism is a way of somehow skating around 0.92

01:24:09.560 the need for wisdom, right? 0.97

01:24:12.020 It's a lot easier if you just have a formula, right?

01:24:15.540 You don't actually have to think.

01:24:16.820 The uniform's been made, the flag's been made, the book's been written.

01:24:19.840 a plus b plus you know like do it plug play plug play and it just doesn't work that way like if

01:24:26.160 the north had won the war you know in the civil war um you know or because they did because the

01:24:31.560 north won the war in the civil war we got communism it's like that's that's uh an oversimplification

01:24:37.240 now if we said because the bolsheviks won world war ii we got communist that's true

01:24:41.700 directly that's directly called so all right super chats from rumble all right tt lambert 88

01:24:47.560 sent $10, just said, thank you for your hard work and truth. Thank you, T.T. Lambert. And the

01:24:53.380 McGlone Code, rounding it out for today, said, I'd like a government that is righteous, no larger

01:24:58.440 than it needs to be, no smaller either, and its primary, maybe sole focus, being in matters of

01:25:04.240 justice. Well said. Osboss52 came in at the last minute. $10. Keep up your content. It is so

01:25:10.420 refreshing. Thanks again. And J.D. Peabody, we just got another one. He sent just $10 to support.

01:25:15.620 just the support no comment appreciate that thank you jdp body and thank you guys on rumble uh

01:25:20.760 remember if if you're following us on rumble and you're watching the live stream as it's

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01:28:31.800 and so you should be getting them probably end of next week early week following so be on the

01:28:37.540 lookout for that um here we go this is uh brown anglo-sax brown anglo-sax he gave us ten dollars

01:28:44.460 we appreciate that thanks so much he said should the president govern by law rather than uh the

01:28:51.020 pulpits, yet still have a pastor as a close advisor to offer moral counsel, truth, and

01:28:59.220 restraint without holding authority. How ought it to be? So yeah, pastors do not have, God has not

01:29:07.380 afforded to pastors the divine right to bear the sword, a literal sword. So we see in Romans chapter

01:29:14.020 13 that the sword has been given to the civil magistrate. He is God's diaconate, diakonos. He is

01:29:20.000 a servant, a deacon of God. He's God's avenger towards avenging the people and avenging God

01:29:29.300 and His namesake itself against the wrongdoer. And so the sword, a literal sword for punitive

01:29:36.040 punishment, not rehabilitation, but punitive punishment for those who do wicked, not just

01:29:41.020 sinning, but sins which are crimes, that exclusive role and the sword, the tool to carry it out,

01:29:46.580 justice, punitive justice, has been exclusively given to the civil magistrate. It has not been

01:29:51.480 given to families. Families can self-defend, but families cannot participate as vigilantes going

01:29:57.520 and trying to stop people from doing crimes, and it hasn't been given to pastors and clergy and

01:30:02.020 churches. So it's the civil magistrate has been given the sword, and pastors, though, I think

01:30:08.540 absolutely can have not formal but informal authority in the sense that they should absolutely

01:30:15.640 be speaking to governors and kings and princes and calling them to repentance and obedience to

01:30:22.320 the Lord Jesus Christ. And a good king who fears the Lord, a good civil magistrate, will have an

01:30:28.200 open ear to the clergy, those clergy that are faithful and that speak for God. So that's it.

01:30:34.080 That's the day. Thank you so much. It's not just the day, it's the week. We will see you,

01:30:37.700 Lord willing, on Monday at 12 p.m. Eastern time. Thanks for tuning in.

01:30:45.640 We'll be right back.

The NXR Podcast - January 23, 2026

NXR Livestream - America： Nation or Empire？

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