The NXR Podcast - NXR Livestream - Calvinism, Jews, & The Last Of The WASP w⧸Dr. E. Michael Jones

00:00:00.000 In today's episode, I will have the privilege of interviewing Dr. E. Michael Jones.

00:00:11.240 He is a best-selling author of multiple different publications, and he is a Catholic.

00:00:16.660 And as you will find in this episode, if you're not familiar with him already,

00:00:20.500 there are Catholics, and then there are super-duper-duper Catholics. 0.91

00:00:24.480 He is of the latter variety.

00:00:26.720 Dr. E. Michael Jones is not a fan of Protestantism.

00:00:30.000 and he is especially not a fan of Calvinist Protestants, of which, for those of you who don't

00:00:35.660 know, I happen to be one. So, in this interview, there are multiple points where I push back in a

00:00:41.640 respectful manner. But I had him on the show for one reason, and one reason only, not to disagree,

00:00:47.300 not to push back, although I do some of that, but because in multiple other arenas that are

00:00:52.820 vitally important, he and I agree entirely. In this episode, we're going to talk about

00:00:58.620 Catholicism, Protestants, how this shaped America. We talk about race. We talk about Jews. We talk 0.62

00:01:05.600 about Calvinism and how that shaped America, some of the pros, and in his perspective, many of the

00:01:12.420 cons. And most importantly, what we discuss in this particular interview is how all these pieces

00:01:18.140 historically play together and set the stage for what he predicts will be the future of these

00:01:23.760 United States. This is a fantastic and vitally important interview. I hope that you enjoy.

00:01:30.200 We'll get right to it after a brief message from one of our sponsors.

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00:03:23.480 2026 nxr 26 for 15 off radical christian nationalist pastor joel weapon joel weapon

00:03:34.280 i'm gonna talk about joel weapon joel weapon is an accident

00:03:46.000 I am joined today by a special guest. I have Dr. E. Michael Jones on the show. Dr. Jones,

00:04:04.760 thanks for coming. Thank you for having me, Joel. So for our listeners, many of them are

00:04:10.360 already aware of you. But for those who maybe aren't, what is it that you currently do? What

00:04:16.520 are the things that you have been known for, some of your writing, etc.? Okay, I started out to be a

00:04:23.540 professor of American literature, got a PhD from Temple University in 1979, got a job at St. Mary's

00:04:31.120 College across the street from Notre Dame in the same year, tenure track position, and I thought I

00:04:36.720 going to be an academe for the rest of my life but i got fired one year after i got there

00:04:41.260 because because of my uh i was against abortion so i kept trying to tell people well i got fired

00:04:50.300 because of my position on abortion from a catholic college and they say well you should have known i

00:04:54.680 said no i was against abortion i got fired for being against abortion so what i realized was

00:05:00.820 that the feminists had taken over st mary's college uh it was catholic in name only uh and

00:05:08.120 then i decided i better get out of academe while the acad uh getting is good and i became really 0.86

00:05:14.480 interested in sexual topics because it came became clear to me that there was a sexual subversion

00:05:22.020 that had taken place at notre dame beginning at notre dame 1965 when father hesperg was

00:05:28.820 collaborating with the Rockefellers to overturn the church's teaching on contraception, then it

00:05:35.020 blossomed into feminism, then it was abortion, and I thought, this is an important topic.

00:05:40.000 Yes, and it's all downstream. The fountainhead is the sexual revolution. It is unbridled perversion

00:05:46.660 and sex without consequence. Sex is God. It's not so much that killing babies is God. Killing 0.99

00:05:52.940 babies is a sacrament of worshiping the God, which is sex. Would you agree with that? 1.00

00:05:57.020 Right. I agree with you. I agree with you. And I think it's especially important for Americans, because we had no established religion here. And but but we had an established morality, we had a moral consensus. And the man who articulated that was John Adams, who said, we have no constitution that functions in the absence of a moral people.

00:06:22.500 right so by the middle of the 19th century you have a guy like ralph waldo emerson who is a

00:06:27.740 satanist when it comes to his thought there's no question about it if you read self-reliance he

00:06:34.760 says nothing matters but the integrity of your own mind and he said and so and he got that from

00:06:42.620 milton's paradise lost where satan says the mind is its own place okay and then someone in power

00:06:50.140 in self-reliance says well what if that's from below and he says well if that's from the devil

00:06:55.040 then i am of the devil's party but on the other hand he remained faithful to his wife and then

00:07:02.120 when it went over to england he met with carlisle and dickens at carlisle's uh farm up in scotland

00:07:08.420 and they were complaining about the the subversion of sexual morality and they assumed it was

00:07:14.340 universal and he said to them if you don't understand it american men go to their marriage

00:07:20.460 beds as virgins you don't understand anything so this was a really significant moment in american

00:07:27.460 history and i'm talking about the period after world war ii where we had the systematic undermining

00:07:34.300 of sexual morality as a form of social engineering that so that is what i would like to talk about

00:07:41.220 because i think that you are masterful on that particular topic and i think you're right that

00:07:45.280 you know this the sexual revolution and unbridled sexual you know satisfaction and perversion all

00:07:51.320 these kinds of things that's the god you have feminism and abortion and this that and the

00:07:56.100 other that are sacraments to this new religion but if you think of what is the purpose of this

00:08:00.200 religion why was it instituted it seems as though it was instituted for cultural and political

00:08:04.640 control that it's what i've told people several times is um you know we always say that you know

00:08:10.100 culture uh politics is downstream of culture and there's a truth to that but the reality is that

00:08:15.300 that it's true in both directions politics is downstream of the culture but also culture can

00:08:20.680 be downstream of politics it's not as though this is the analogy that i use it's not as though in

00:08:25.040 the 1950s 1959 i think leave it to beaver was black and white you know television and a hit show

00:08:30.900 it's not as though all these you know housewives got together and were like we love this television

00:08:35.620 show but the only thing it's missing is just you know butt sex and then you know they put pressure 0.78

00:08:41.240 and wrote letters and hollywood you know just relented and said well we have you know outstanding 0.90

00:08:45.580 morals but you know the the customer's always right and so i guess we'll go ahead and and put

00:08:50.580 in some you know immoral slop no it wasn't that the masses put pressure like this was engineered

00:08:56.720 from the elites the elites were the ones who were pushing immorality down our throats until 0.93

00:09:02.540 everybody coalesced and so can you talk about that sex sexual idolatry and confusion and addiction

00:09:10.560 as as a mechanism not not just as its own religion but a religion that was set up as a mechanism by

00:09:17.200 our elites in order to control the populace how does that work who are some of these elites

00:09:22.420 what was their purpose and what are they trying to attempt okay if you're talking about the

00:09:28.500 religion the name of the religion is science okay go ahead uh and uh i just wrote my autobiography

00:09:36.060 uh when i was in my mother's womb the kinsey report came out now uh this had a tremendous

00:09:46.300 effect on sexual morality in the united states of america because it basically decertified sexual

00:09:52.620 morality as some type of irrational taboo and this was portrayed by the this was a total top

00:09:59.840 down operation kinsey was being funded by the rockefeller foundation because the rockefeller

00:10:06.000 foundation wanted to promote birth control because they were obsessed with population control

00:10:10.980 and so they gave kinsey a credibility that he should not have had he was an entomology studied

00:10:16.500 gall wasps why why did that make him an expert on human sexuality okay but they he was a scientist

00:10:24.700 and once you say scientist that's the end of the discussion and so he was uh portrayed as such on

00:10:31.880 the cover of time magazine that was when i was five years old that was when the female version

00:10:37.420 of the skids report came out and he had a crew cut he had a bow tie and he had birds and bees

00:10:43.300 flying around him and he was basically a boy scout that's the way they portrayed him Kenzie 0.75

00:10:47.920 was a homosexual that's right I was one of the first people that understood that and said it 0.64

00:10:53.640 I said it because so 41 years after I'm born 41 years after the bad I was born under a bad sign

00:11:02.560 I was under a bad sign ever since I could crawl if it weren't for bad luck I'd have no luck at all

00:11:10.500 okay 41 years later i'm sitting in the uh home of paul gebhart who is the uh co-author of the

00:11:19.040 kinsey report the first co-author and uh i said to him well i just read in in the uh john barber

00:11:26.780 the ap reporter said that uh kinsey uh had the second largest pornography collection in the

00:11:32.760 world but the largest pornography collection was in the vatican i said is that true and he burst

00:11:39.720 out laughing he said no that's a joke Kinsey made up that joke because he'd like to get a rise

00:11:45.380 out of the the uh the the people the audience he made it up well wait a minute you you you wrecked

00:11:52.820 my life you don't wreck my life God God by the grace of God I've had a good life but you influenced

00:11:59.840 an entire generation with your inside joke okay well that's not the way it was portrayed uh in

00:12:08.160 in the world of time magazine and so what i began to realize is something happened here something

00:12:14.480 really seriously happened how can i get fired from a catholic college for being against abortion

00:12:19.220 something serious happened so i started doing the research over a period of time and eventually

00:12:24.320 came out with the book libido dominandi sexual liberation and political control i think i'm

00:12:31.080 the first guy who said it now obviously it's implicit it's implicit in the bible with the

00:12:36.960 story of samson and delilah yes okay now uh aquinas thomas aquinas says lust makes you blind

00:12:44.320 and samson was undefeatable in battle but when he fell under the wiles of delilah

00:12:49.940 uh what'd she do to him she gouts out his eyes he's blind and look where is your hero now as

00:12:56.600 milton said grinding at the in god eyeless in gaza grinding at the mill with slaves

00:13:01.900 so i wrote that book came out in 2003 and then uh one year later the event happened that proved

00:13:10.460 that i was right 2004 the israelis invade ramallah we're getting used to this now okay and they go

00:13:17.600 in and the first thing they do is take over the tv stations and they start broadcasting pornography

00:13:23.060 over the tv stations now why did they do that if you go to the american explanation of pornography

00:13:30.020 in movies like People vs. Larry

00:13:32.360 Flint or Boogie Nights, which came

00:13:34.300 out right around the time of the Communications

00:13:36.020 Decency Act. Larry Flint

00:13:38.220 says it. Pornography means

00:13:40.140 freedom. You're not

00:13:42.220 free unless you can buy a one-handed

00:13:44.280 magazine like Hustler.

00:13:46.620 Okay? Well, if that's the case,

00:13:48.400 the Israelis wanted to bring freedom

00:13:50.420 to the Palestinians.

00:13:52.540 That doesn't make any sense. 0.99

00:13:54.260 It's a form of control.

00:13:56.700 That proved the

00:13:58.540 thesis of my my piece and then to get back to Kinsey I go to the I'm doing research in the

00:14:04.220 Rockefeller archives and they show me the the file Wardell Pomeroy the other author of the

00:14:10.080 Kinsey report they show me his his his letter said to Alan Gregg the head of the Rockefeller

00:14:16.560 Foundation at that time war breaks out I think it's like 1942 something like that and Alan Gregg

00:14:22.780 writes the letters to the draft board at South Bend, Indiana, and says, please do not draft

00:14:27.900 Wardell Pomeroy. He's engaged in research which will lead to a control of large populations of

00:14:36.080 people. So there you had it right out of Alan Gregg's mouth. It's a form of control.

00:14:41.180 I couldn't help but think, Dr. Jones, as you were talking about Kinsey and his comments about the

00:14:47.440 vatican and the world's largest pornography collection and then him saying oh i'm joking

00:14:52.840 i i couldn't help but think of uh the proverbs that says um cursed is the man who harms his

00:14:58.880 neighbor and after doing so says i was only joking like there's there's literally a bible

00:15:04.680 verse about this you know like oh it was just and and people still do this you know to be honest

00:15:09.920 even guys that i might agree with on a host of topics you know saying things tongue in cheek in

00:15:14.900 order to maintain plausible deniability so that they can do incredible harm and yet do it with

00:15:22.380 him. By the way, Nick Fuentes is notorious for that type of behavior. He sometimes gets away

00:15:27.760 with some of that. I appreciate Nick and I would consider him in many regards a friend. And I think

00:15:32.880 he's one of the sharpest guys his age on a host of issues. But as a Christian minister, there is

00:15:40.520 some rhetoric and jokes that he says that i simply can't get behind no i agree have you ever spoken

00:15:48.140 with him i'm curious yeah i did an interview with him oh i met him i met him first went to chicago

00:15:53.880 actually we were both at a conference by roosh we don't hear much about roosh anymore but he was

00:16:00.120 talking at that point about how to pick up chicks and so i met him and i said well let's go out to

00:16:05.660 a bar. And he said, well, I'm only 18. So we couldn't go to a bar. He was that young at that

00:16:10.580 time, but still had that presence, still had that presence. And so we went and sat down and we didn't

00:16:16.420 have a meeting in the mines because I didn't know enough about him and he didn't know anything about

00:16:20.220 me. So it just, it just never happened, but he did interview me. But again, it wasn't really a

00:16:24.580 meeting in the mines because there was no, no substance. We couldn't find a common denominator

00:16:30.000 at that point. I would think, yeah. So I think at this point you'd have a lot more to talk about.

00:16:34.520 i think the common denominator in many regards would be catholicism for the two of you but also

00:16:40.080 uh to nick's credit um you know his you know his joking his rhetoric certainly there's things to

00:16:46.820 uh to disagree with but um you got to give him props he's 27 years old um he's not a womanizer

00:16:54.820 he's not a drunkard he's where so many of these young guys on the right wing i might agree with

00:17:01.940 some of their political takes but a lot of the guys are they're these up-and-coming guys it's

00:17:07.560 it's really discouraging because it's like i think they're right politically in many regards but

00:17:13.940 morally a lot of them are degenerate the new right uh the ascendant right whatever you want to call

00:17:20.420 it um it's it's a lot of degeneracy and and nick is kind of like one of the only guys in that scene

00:17:26.480 who at least at a personal level seems to have some discipline,

00:17:30.760 which is good.

00:17:31.740 Have you kept up at all with, you know,

00:17:35.260 maybe not in a friendship or speaking with him directly,

00:17:38.040 but have you watched any of his live streams and shows?

00:17:42.120 Which Nick Fuentes are you talking about?

00:17:45.040 I'm talking about the one and only.

00:17:46.900 Go ahead.

00:17:47.580 No, there are many Nick Fuentes.

00:17:50.200 Ah, I see. Explain.

00:17:51.320 This is the issue.

00:17:52.460 So it depends on which Nick Fuentes shows up.

00:17:55.260 so one Nick Fuentes says Christ is king and then the other Nick Fuentes invites Jared Taylor to

00:18:02.160 his conference to talk about race and I reached out to him I said Nick these are this is incompatible

00:18:08.580 these are two incompatible operating systems the race narrative and the Catholic narrative

00:18:14.460 are incompatible I'd like to come to your conference and help you sort this out well

00:18:19.000 he kind of it was uppity of me to talk that way so okay all right you don't have to invite me

00:18:25.540 to your conference that blew up anyway gyra taylor blew up his conference by making this 0.83

00:18:29.900 inflammatory racial speech at a nightclub in detroit bad idea bad idea but anyway blew it up

00:18:36.220 let's talk about that for a moment because i am i think that's probably the only two things

00:18:41.340 major things that you and i would disagree on is you're catholic i'm a protestant and then race

00:18:46.600 would be another. I would not describe myself. I told you before recording, I'm not a race

00:18:51.320 essentialist. I think that Christianity is much higher and much more important. I'm also not a

00:18:56.180 racial determinist. I actually think that peoples and groups of peoples and tribes can change

00:19:01.080 slowly, not in 15 minutes, but over the course of generations. And I think that we can point back

00:19:05.980 and see how this has occurred and how it could occur in the future. But at the same time, I would

00:19:11.380 say that I prescribe to a certain form of race realism. I think that race is not everything,

00:19:18.960 but I also don't think it's nothing. I'm curious your thoughts about race, because I know that

00:19:25.420 you emphasize Christianity, and so do I. I think that I would describe myself as a Christian

00:19:30.860 nationalist and not a white nationalist. However, I'm comfortable saying in the case of these United

00:19:35.360 States, that I would like to see this country remain predominantly white. I don't think it 1.00

00:19:41.900 has to be exclusively white, but predominantly white because it's our history, it's our heritage, 0.93

00:19:46.460 and the replacement of a native citizenship, I think, is gravely immoral. I'm curious, 0.68

00:19:53.540 your thoughts on race, because you say diametrically opposed with Catholicism.

00:20:00.140 To Catholicism, yes.

00:20:01.240 Could you flesh that out some? 1.00

00:20:03.800 Yeah, I'd say race is a Protestant invention. 0.99

00:20:06.980 And I'll be specific. 0.92

00:20:08.580 It's a social construct that was created in Virginia to divide the slave class.

00:20:15.600 You had slaves, Celtic slaves, and you had African slaves. 0.64

00:20:18.920 And at the time of Bacon's Rebellion, they united and almost overthrew the planter aristocracy. 0.80

00:20:24.940 And so they decided to divide and conquer, and they created the term white.

00:20:29.780 if you go i mean white as applied to people so if you go to the new oxford dictionary on historical

00:20:36.480 terms you'll find that the first use of white to describe people is in the 17th century and it is

00:20:42.740 a play about a plantation in virginia so it's it's a social construct that was created

00:20:50.120 for political purposes and economic purposes well what do i mean by a social construct okay

00:20:57.200 uh phenotype is real okay a category of reality so i look i i i am not white but i i'm biracial

00:21:06.900 i am irish and german and people who come from that area tend to have a certain look and i look

00:21:13.260 like one of them and i don't look like someone who grew up in africa that's real i'm not denying

00:21:17.580 that the grift comes in when you have a guy like jared taylor uh posting pictures of the absolute 0.95

00:21:24.720 ugliest negro you can find this guy's been beaten by an ugly stick for days on end and then you find 0.98

00:21:30.620 the most gorgeous blonde from sweden you can find you put them together and they're that inflames 1.00

00:21:36.320 some type of feeling okay that's not what i'm talking about here when you go from when you

00:21:43.640 shift from appearance to behavior this goes from being a category of reality to a category of the

00:21:52.720 mind and the main shift that takes place here is generally iq which is science which means you

00:21:59.320 can't can't disagree with it and so you'll see memes on uh internet on x something like that

00:22:07.060 the average iq of hate in haiti is 75 this is preposterous wow when did they ever give an

00:22:15.620 iq test in haiti and secondly what language was it given it creole do they have a creole

00:22:21.620 IQ test this was exposes when you shift from one to the other you're shifting away from

00:22:27.880 a phenotype which is real to a social construct which was created for political purposes to

00:22:33.900 privilege one group and disadvantage another. So that is what I have been told in regards to

00:22:42.160 your view so there's nothing that you said that uh that has surprised me or shocked me

00:22:45.900 I would disagree, but I'm aware. I'm curious though, if America, I think Christianity in the

00:22:56.460 macro, in the ultimate is absolutely the answer. We need revival. But at the same time, that even

00:23:03.660 if revival came to America, if we had, if America was re-Christianized in many ways, I feel like we

00:23:09.780 are a Christian nation, but currently in many ways in the process of apostasy and there needs

00:23:15.660 to be repentance and a return to the Lord Jesus Christ. But even if those things happen, there is

00:23:20.940 a truth to the fact that Jesus breaks down the walls of hostility between different tribes

00:23:26.080 and tongues and languages. But I feel like there's also something to be said for a homogenous society

00:23:33.940 that's high trust. How do you, I feel like right now we're not much of a nation at all. We're an

00:23:40.140 empire with multiple nations. And part of that is not just religion or ideology. There's certainly

00:23:47.420 that. But I think it also is different peoples, biologically, different tribes and tongues

00:23:53.080 and people. We don't even speak the same language in America anymore. But it sounds like you give

00:23:58.200 little credence to that. In 1979, Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin gifted Jerry Falwell

00:24:06.040 a luxurious Learjet 25, worth millions of dollars.

00:24:10.220 Officially, it was a token of gratitude for his support.

00:24:13.500 But the truth, it was a transaction.

00:24:16.660 Falwell was now Israel's valuable ally,

00:24:19.560 flying high as a lobbyist in the skies.

00:24:22.380 And from that moment on, Falwell's allegiance soared.

00:24:26.060 His moral majority made backing Israel a core platform,

00:24:29.740 preaching American prosperity,

00:24:31.580 hinged upon blessing the Jewish state, 0.70

00:24:34.160 or else face God's wrath.

00:24:37.460 Genesis 12.3 was twisted into foreign policy.

00:24:41.220 Now explore the full account

00:24:42.820 in the hyphenated heresy, Judeo-Christianity.

00:24:46.480 Learn how the faith was hijacked

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00:24:52.760 Pick up your copy today at amazon.com.

00:24:55.720 well it's uh i think that samuel huntington dealt with this in 2001 right around the time

00:25:08.640 right around the time of 9-11 and he wrote a book called who are we samuel huntington is the man who

00:25:13.480 wrote the clash of civilizations he's the go-to guy for the american empire to understand itself

00:25:19.540 and he wrote basically

00:25:22.120 that an American

00:25:24.100 is an Anglo-Protestant.

00:25:26.720 There's a sense 0.98

00:25:27.900 in which I agree to that.

00:25:30.420 But how do we contextualize this?

00:25:32.640 We contextualize this by going

00:25:34.100 to the colonies

00:25:35.440 north of the United States

00:25:38.220 and south of the United States.

00:25:40.060 The northern part we're talking about

00:25:41.980 is Quebec and Quebec was a

00:25:43.980 Catholic colony and Catholic

00:25:46.080 colonies had a different

00:25:47.740 operating system. And this is memorialized in the Fort Michimilly Mackinac Park at the northern tip

00:25:55.560 of the lower peninsula of Michigan. And they have a video that explains the history there. And it

00:26:02.320 begins with a voyageur, the French fur trader, marrying an Indian maiden. And there's the

00:26:09.600 Catholic priest blessing the marriage. So in a Catholic culture, intermarriage is the hidden

00:26:15.960 grammar here okay but it goes on there the english take over they conquer wolf conquers quebec last

00:26:23.940 day of the year now we have a new operating system is called the english protestant operating system

00:26:30.140 and that's different that's another word for capitalism which is state-sponsored usury and so

00:26:36.020 they they bring a jew in to run the trading post this is not me it's in the video official video

00:26:42.380 state of michigan and again michigan's saying this the jew starts cheating the indians and at 0.65

00:26:48.980 that point the indians get upset they throw the highlight ball over the talkade can we come in 0.86

00:26:54.900 and get the ball they open the gates and they slaughter everyone and then they say we want to 0.99

00:27:00.240 be having allegiance to the king of france we're sick of this english stuff now the presbyterians

00:27:06.320 after the conquest show up in nova scotia okay they announce that they are bringing christ to

00:27:12.480 nova scotia and the people there and they refuse not only to speak micmac which is a native language

00:27:19.660 they refuse to speak french which they should know and they force everyone to speak english

00:27:25.520 and they announce you have to become a presbyterian because that is christianity and the natives say 0.80

00:27:31.320 well sorry we've been catholics christians for 200 years now we're not going to change now so

00:27:38.020 what was the english solution to this they put bounties on scalps you could go up there and make

00:27:44.560 money scalping uh the french micmac and then that didn't work and so what they do they shipped them

00:27:52.440 off to uh louisiana where they became cajuns long henry wasworth longfellow wrote a great poem

00:28:00.480 called evangeline about this tragedy and hoping they would all die in the fever swamps of

00:28:06.160 louisiana that's different that's different we have two fundamentally different operating systems

00:28:13.600 and what you had in america was a what we call a triple melting pot where ethnic identity

00:28:21.440 no matter where you come from after three generations your ethnic identity in america

00:28:27.840 It derives from religion.

00:28:29.740 And so we have three ethnic groups in America, Protestant, Catholic, Jew.

00:28:34.420 That is America. 0.54

00:28:36.160 Obviously, the Protestants were the dominant part for centuries, but now that's changing. 0.92

00:28:42.500 We're at the end of America's Third Republic, which began in 1945. 0.90

00:28:48.980 It lasts 80 years.

00:28:51.460 Things that we consider eternal are going to pass out of existence now.

00:28:56.580 we're all watching it happen uh like the united nations the fundamental uh the council the

00:29:03.480 fundamental organization of the third republic trump just uh told them we don't we're not

00:29:08.160 following you anywhere i'm not funny you it's over i'm saying also that protestantism is going

00:29:13.540 to is disappearing as we speak and protestants were in many ways a buffer between the catholics

00:29:20.740 and the jews and now we have uh open conflict and i'm referring specifically to what happened last

00:29:29.000 week when carrie prejean bowler was on the committee the trump's religious freedom committee

00:29:36.880 and she started talking to the jews in a way that jews had never heard before from an american

00:29:43.760 she's a beauty queen she uh she had a new donald trump blah blah blah and she starts saying well

00:29:50.980 wait a minute i'm not a zionist you have no right to impose your zionist ideology on me because i'm

00:30:00.540 a catholic now this is new but what i'm saying here this is the now fundamental conflict at the

00:30:07.400 beginning of america's fourth republic it's going to be between catholics and jews and the question

00:30:13.560 is, is there a universal moral law that is binding on the conscience of all men, because all men

00:30:21.240 were created by God with free will, or is there a group that has special DNA? To get back to the

00:30:28.640 race issue, which is what the Jews told Jesus Christ in John 8, when they said, we are the

00:30:34.480 seed of Abraham. Right. Yeah, we are the children of Abraham, which Jesus responds and ultimately 0.67

00:30:40.680 says, no, your father is the devil. So with that, I think that that's actually quite fascinating

00:30:48.800 because I'm willing to admit, even as a Protestant, that historically speaking,

00:30:53.080 it seems as though the Jews of history, the Jews of today, their greatest fear is the Catholic

00:31:00.860 monarchs. They're the ones who ultimately wouldn't tolerate any degree of subversion, 0.87

00:31:06.240 or usury or these kinds of practices and eventually would throw them out.

00:31:12.920 And yet they certainly, I have to admit, even though I don't particularly like it, 0.97

00:31:19.180 that Protestants have largely been much more susceptible to a lot of Jewish lies. 0.97

00:31:28.380 And it's not all Jews, but the lies that have come. 0.91

00:31:32.360 Let's be more specific. 0.85

00:31:34.180 Let's talk specifically about America.

00:31:36.380 Let's talk specifically about Massachusetts Bay Colony,

00:31:39.940 which was colonized by the Puritans.

00:31:42.320 Okay, go ahead. 1.00

00:31:44.500 This is a violent, Judaizing Protestant sect 1.00

00:31:49.040 that broke away from the kind of staid Anglicanism 0.98

00:31:53.640 that was the beginning of the Reformation.

00:31:57.100 Okay, these were people who, let's say Oliver Cromwell,

00:32:01.220 who's the head of this operation,

00:32:03.320 really took Protestant principles seriously,

00:32:06.880 specifically sola scriptura.

00:32:09.420 So he picks up the Bible,

00:32:12.180 immediately go to the Old Testament,

00:32:13.560 don't like the New Testament,

00:32:14.520 go to the Old Testament,

00:32:15.500 and he immediately says, I'm Gideon.

00:32:18.920 And as soon as he becomes Gideon, 0.62

00:32:21.040 anybody he doesn't like becomes Amalek. 0.89

00:32:24.140 So the first time around, 0.99

00:32:25.420 it was the Irish Catholics in Drogheda

00:32:28.580 who took refuge in the cathedral there thinking there was sanctuary in a church and uh cromwell

00:32:36.180 and his thugs went in there and slaughtered them all man woman and child second time around it's

00:32:43.900 the king phillips war where they apply the same principle of amalek to the uh native americans

00:32:50.820 third time around i'm skipping a higher head it's bb netanyahu who also believes in sola scriptura

00:33:00.800 he's saying i am gideon and the palestinians are amalek i'm saying there is a consistency here

00:33:08.020 of this behavior that is rooted in fundamental protestant principles like sola scriptura

00:33:15.260 For my sake, can you define, because I've had this conversation with many people, both Protestants and Catholics alike, and I've found that it's imperative that whoever you happen to be speaking to in the moment who does not like Sola Scriptura, and I'm picking up that you don't like it, it's very helpful to have them define Sola Scriptura.

00:33:36.440 So I'm curious, how would you define that particular doctrine?

00:33:39.860 By, by Scripture alone.

00:33:42.800 so the three solas are so by scripture alone so the three solas are sola fide by grace alone

00:33:50.060 sola fide by faith alone sola gratia by grace alone and sola scriptura by scripture alone

00:33:58.780 okay now what are we saying here i've said this before you've got a constitution but you got no

00:34:07.400 supreme court how do you i asked a protestant lady this she starts telling me sola scriptura

00:34:13.580 by the bubble all that i said well i just told you about uh bb net yahoo uh justifying the

00:34:21.300 extermination of palestinians by calling them amalek i said how what what controls do you put

00:34:28.200 on sola scriptura what parameters are that control your interpretations well there is none

00:34:35.280 Sola Scriptura is an ultimate principle.

00:34:38.460 Well, how do you prevent this from spiraling out of control

00:34:43.480 and ending up justifying genocide, as it did with Cromwell, 0.68

00:34:48.240 with the Puritans in Massachusetts, and with Bibi Netanyahu? 0.56

00:34:51.340 How do you prevent that? 0.96

00:34:53.580 Can I give you an answer?

00:34:55.980 Sure.

00:34:56.480 And you can disagree with it.

00:34:57.500 Yeah, so first, the way that I would define Sola Scriptura,

00:35:01.160 in my understanding from the Reformed tradition, which I happen to be a part of,

00:35:04.360 is, uh, Sola Scriptura is not that scripture is the only authority, but it's the only infallible

00:35:09.040 authority. And scripture itself testifies to many other authorities. Parents are authorities. You

00:35:13.840 know, you have civil magistrates that are authorities, ecclesiastical, spiritual authorities,

00:35:18.220 apostles and elders, presbyters, ministers. So there are other authorities that scripture itself

00:35:23.480 testifies to. So Sola Scriptura is not that scripture is the only authority. It's the only

00:35:27.780 authority that does not ever err, the only perfect infallible authority. And then secondly,

00:35:32.560 Sola Scriptura is also the highest authority. So there are other authorities subjected to

00:35:38.040 Scripture as the highest authority, and those other authorities, while being valid real authorities,

00:35:42.760 they're both errant authorities. They're authorities that can fault and err, and they're

00:35:48.580 also subjugated. They're lesser authorities. And so all that being said, to answer your question,

00:35:54.000 what I would say is that even if you deny Sola Scriptura, ultimately the problem in my purview

00:36:00.840 is not the doctrine of sola scriptura,

00:36:03.880 but the doctrine of simply human authority,

00:36:07.620 in this case civil,

00:36:09.000 that does not have checks and balances.

00:36:11.340 Because if you have, 0.84

00:36:13.980 you could have a Catholic king

00:36:15.440 who's subjected to the Pope,

00:36:17.020 but if the Pope speaks infallibly in that moment,

00:36:20.520 which is very rare, I acknowledge,

00:36:22.700 but if he determines and says,

00:36:24.320 these guys over here, the Palestinians are Amalek's,

00:36:26.560 then you're going to have the same problem. 1.00

00:36:28.520 In my view, the big problem is not the doctrine of Sola Scriptura

00:36:33.160 as much as it is not having a civil magistrate

00:36:37.180 who is held in check by other godly civil magistrates

00:36:42.880 and also the church, for that matter.

00:36:45.080 I think the church should have some authority

00:36:47.740 to be able to speak to the state.

00:36:48.980 So all that being said, what I constantly teach others

00:36:52.460 in this Protestant vein is, oh, we don't like the Pope.

00:36:55.180 but what protestantism has ultimately achieved is now we just have you know millions of little

00:37:00.220 popes and and i see that as a protestant it's a huge problem a huge problem everybody becomes

00:37:05.640 their own little pope like right what i realized was this it was you know probably about eight

00:37:10.560 years ago or so i i realized that personally and it was convicting for me you know and humbling

00:37:16.460 embarrassing to be honestly but it was it was somewhat shameful but i realized that you know

00:37:21.580 I would say, well, I don't like, you know, this tradition in church history, or I don't agree

00:37:25.880 with this particular creed or this particular council or this particular confession. It's just

00:37:30.620 the Bible. And then I finally realized as I got older, how stupid that was. Not because the Bible 1.00

00:37:36.040 is stupid. The Bible is incredible. I love the Bible. Right. It's the word of God. Amen. But 1.00

00:37:41.180 what I was presuming, which was so foolish, was I was creating a false dichotomy that said,

00:37:47.720 it's the Bible on this side over here, you have the Bible through some other lens and

00:37:53.380 interpretation. But over here, me being so pious and so superior, I've opted for the Bible alone.

00:38:00.920 But the Bible alone actually is not, it's not that it's not the best option. It's a non-existent

00:38:06.760 option. There is no such thing as the scripture not being interpreted. Whenever someone is using

00:38:13.460 the Bible, they are by default. So really what I realized is it's 2,000 years of the Bible through

00:38:20.380 this lens of church tradition and councils and creeds, or it's the Bible through Pastor Fred,

00:38:26.860 or it's the Bible through Sister Sally, or it's the Bible, but it's always the Bible through.

00:38:32.660 And so then it's not a matter of whether, but simply a matter of which someone is interpreting,

00:38:38.260 Someone is exegeting, you know, and applying.

00:38:42.860 And I don't think that when I came to that realization,

00:38:45.680 and of course I could be wrong, but when I came to that,

00:38:48.040 I didn't feel as though I had to throw out

00:38:50.920 Sola Scriptura wholesale, but I certainly needed

00:38:53.980 to get more particular and precise in the way

00:38:56.780 that I understood it.

00:38:58.720 I agree.

00:38:59.980 So what is new is not true, and what is true is not new.

00:39:03.660 That's the story of Protestantism.

00:39:06.380 so i i agree with you you're you're right we're talking about interpretations so again to give

00:39:12.300 another example john milton very important figure in american history uh married this woman and she

00:39:19.040 came from a big family they had good times together and suddenly she's off with this lonely poet

00:39:23.640 and she's unhappy so she leaves him well uh he i'm not going to take that you know uh i'm i want a

00:39:33.240 wife if this lady leaves me what am i going to do and so he goes to the bible and looks for a

00:39:38.900 justification for divorce well you go to the old testament and g i'm sorry go to the new testament

00:39:44.720 jesus christ has very specific things to say about divorce yes and it's not what he's looking for so

00:39:50.520 what's he do well go to the old testament then moses permitted divorce i'm saying what you're

00:39:56.360 really talking about here, and I think Nietzsche was the man who understood this, is will. Sola

00:40:03.000 Voluntate. What you're doing is imposing your will on God's Word, and you're coming up with 0.98

00:40:09.540 what you want. That's the problem here. What is there to prevent this? Right. And what you're 0.84

00:40:15.480 describing, that's eisegesis, to read into the text the preferences and opinions of men, your

00:40:20.520 own will, versus reading out of the text what God actually intends. And to read out of the text what

00:40:25.840 god intends is you know according to the performers the the only infallible interpretation

00:40:30.720 or interpreter of scripture is more scripture reading scripture in the larger context of

00:40:35.820 scripture but then fallible albeit fallible interpreters but but that doesn't mean that

00:40:41.320 they're petty or should be lightly dismissed is church authorities church authority actually

00:40:47.020 matters yeah so you know i even you know so i've spent my whole life as a baptist and i think that's

00:40:52.640 part of the problem in America is that America, it wasn't just Protestantism, but ultimately the

00:40:58.040 Presbyterians, you know, they kind of had the lion's share to begin with, but they ultimately

00:41:01.660 lost out to the Methodist, to the Baptist. And aside from just some of the doctrinal things,

00:41:06.180 one of the big contributing factors within Baptist and Methodist, which was the lion's

00:41:13.240 share of America and still is in many regards, is not so much their theology, but their

00:41:19.680 ecclesiastical polity. It's isolated, it's independent, it's autonomous. There's no

00:41:27.800 episcopal hierarchy of authority in the way that things work. And so I've thought about this quite

00:41:33.620 a bit. And I thought, you know what, it's probably not a coincidence that England, for instance,

00:41:39.040 it shifted back and forth at various times, Catholic or Protestant. But even when it was

00:41:43.860 Protestant, it's probably not a coincidence that within the Protestant moments of England's history,

00:41:49.320 it was anglican and not baptist you know or right methodist like there's still a a hierarchical

00:41:56.520 polity that's built into that structure i may not have a pope but there's still

00:42:01.240 a clear ladder uh degrees that's right and what what destroyed that the frontier the frontier

00:42:08.640 that's true this is this is my the thesis of walking with the bible on the gun is basically

00:42:14.360 the trajectory of American identity goes from east to west. And so it's, I took this idea from

00:42:21.820 Aquinas, existence calls forth essence into being. That's a total reversal of what Plato thought,

00:42:28.880 which was basically essence gets imposed on existence, which is totally meaningless.

00:42:33.460 Essence is abstract form. Existence is totally meaningless. You have to impose it on there,

00:42:38.880 the way you build like a Greek temple out of stone. He didn't know about God creating the

00:42:43.800 world. God, creation means that there is a logos in the universe, and you can discover this, okay?

00:42:52.080 So existence is now very important. So the Puritans arrive in Massachusetts Bay with their 0.57

00:42:58.820 Calvinist redaction of the Bible, and they start going west, and they're immediately confronted 0.96

00:43:04.440 with existence, and it changes almost immediately. Like overnight, not overnight, but within, let's

00:43:11.380 say, less than 100 years, you've got Solomon Stoddard, who's on the frontier now in the

00:43:16.480 middle of Massachusetts, got to come up with the halfway covenant.

00:43:20.820 Man, I'm surprised.

00:43:22.060 I did not know you knew about Solomon Stoddard.

00:43:24.120 You're talking about Jonathan Edwards' father-in-law, correct?

00:43:26.620 No.

00:43:27.080 Or grandfather.

00:43:28.000 Grandfather.

00:43:28.540 Grandfather, yeah.

00:43:29.580 That's interesting.

00:43:30.560 Yeah, I've read about that.

00:43:31.840 That's really cool that you...

00:43:33.280 Yeah, but you're right.

00:43:34.380 That was, you know, and it was, that was eisegesis, right?

00:43:37.820 So he's dealing with a contextual problem.

00:43:39.760 This is not some macro clear, you know, inherent thing to the scripture.

00:43:43.360 He's in a context, a local context, and he's got all these older parishioners and they're

00:43:49.580 adult children now.

00:43:50.760 They've grown.

00:43:51.860 They've all apostatized and have left the faith.

00:43:54.820 But the grandparents, in typical grandparent fashion, they really want those grandbabies

00:43:58.820 baptized.

00:44:00.040 And so they have to come up with a new doctrine.

00:44:02.600 Something's got to give.

00:44:03.740 Yep.

00:44:04.340 Something's got to give.

00:44:05.340 You're absolutely right.

00:44:06.560 and so what happens is we have to well is election in other words to be a puritan you have election

00:44:12.560 you have to be a member of the visible elect in order to be a member of the church

00:44:16.920 well is election uh transferable genetically the way the jews say it you know through your mother 0.59

00:44:24.140 is it dna is your election in your dna well they couldn't say that and so they have to come up with

00:44:30.200 some the halfway covenant to deal with reality okay it's not working the calvinist principles

00:44:38.240 are not working on the frontier this the society is disintegrating because you have inadequate

00:44:44.440 premises this continued the farther west you went the more the modification changed so you have

00:44:51.400 someone like lyman beecher who is probably the last calvinist he sends his son henry ward beecher

00:44:57.980 off to the wilderness of indiana by the time he reaches there he's a methodist

00:45:04.620 that was the modification that existence imposed on protestantism but i mean this is the cauldron

00:45:13.060 or the the the this is the cauldron out of which american identity emerges i think that's what i'm

00:45:20.280 saying i and i hear you and i think there's a lot of good points that you raise i think some of it

00:45:24.380 was inevitable. And underneath the sovereignty of God, not just inevitable, but I do think, well,

00:45:31.380 you're talking to a Calvinist for better or for worse. And so I do think that these things

00:45:35.780 ultimately have been used, good and bad, to bring about God's glory in the long run

00:45:41.620 and the good of those who are called according to his purposes and who love him. And I think

00:45:47.120 God is working all these things for good. But I look at it and I think, okay, you have this huge

00:45:51.600 landmass there's not really a way to to have a constructed um uh it's just it's a wild wild west

00:46:00.340 you're going to have a lot of independence autonomy and people going out there's no way to really hold

00:46:05.020 them accountable you've got circuit preachers you know we're going to this town to that town to that

00:46:10.280 town they haven't even had time to build a building much less you know um ordain a minister and these

00:46:15.460 kinds of things and so it's kind of a a race to the bottom the lowest common denominator the

00:46:20.720 theological, you know, academic standards, you know, go down, you know, standards for ordination

00:46:27.400 go down, all these kinds of things. And what it allows for, think of it like a franchise. It was

00:46:33.060 like the Protestant franchise in many ways. It's like Burger King, you know, and we want to get as 0.99

00:46:37.100 many Burger Kings as possible. And so, you know, it helps that it's a cheap burger and not a five

00:46:43.020 star, you know, steak, filet mignon. You know, that's hard to reproduce with consistency,

00:46:47.980 but you can reproduce slop with consistency it's a it's a much easier thing to do and and so i look

00:46:54.400 at like the american project and it actually makes a lot of sense to me that um that things

00:47:00.240 kind of degraded and and erased to the lowest common denominator um because you're just you're

00:47:05.880 settling um a continent in in many regards but now that things are are settled and have been for

00:47:14.200 quite some time it really makes logical sense like if i was predicting i'm not prescribing here

00:47:19.760 i am protestant and i love my tradition for better or worse but um if i'm predicting not prescribing

00:47:26.720 i i do think that it makes sense that now that america has been settled and civilized and

00:47:34.000 established for some time that things would begin in the ecclesiastical arena within the church

00:47:40.820 that a million different splinters and fracturing would not be viable long-term

00:47:47.200 and that things would synthesize eventually, inevitably, in the other direction.

00:47:52.680 And what was an asset, or at least perceived as an asset, like, hey, it's just a little bit of

00:47:59.160 water, a little bit of wine, a little bit of bread, and a Bible on horseback, and we can do church.

00:48:03.920 right and and america at a certain time that was uh you know that was an asset a simple church and

00:48:11.880 and an isolated fragment and we could just ride out west and and worship the lord and baptize in

00:48:17.700 the in the creek you know and uh these kinds of things but but that's not the america that we have

00:48:21.940 now and we have a fractured america racially culturally religiously you know ideologically

00:48:29.200 But a settled America, we don't have the wild, wild west.

00:48:31.900 And it makes sense that eventually, on the religious side of the aisle,

00:48:36.780 things would synthesize.

00:48:38.140 Somebody's going to win out, and there's going to be a push

00:48:44.440 for things being organized.

00:48:46.820 Right. 0.86

00:48:47.940 Call it Catholicism.

00:48:49.320 Catholicism is a viable candidate, no doubt.

00:48:52.040 I think that what's happening is that—

00:48:54.540 Or Anglicanism could maybe win out, but it probably won't be Baptist.

00:48:58.500 what you look uh let's take a state-of-the-art tucker carlson's debate with ted cruz okay that

00:49:06.020 shows the fracture in protestantism right now tucker carlson is an episcopalian his denomination

00:49:12.880 has been taken over by homosexuals yes he regards it ironically uh the mainstream didn't three

00:49:19.240 mainstream churches in south bend indiana the one thing they have in common mainstream protestant 0.92

00:49:23.900 churches. They all fly the gay flag outside their churches, and they're all competing for the 37 0.54

00:49:29.640 homosexuals who live in South Bend, Indiana. Okay, on the other side of the equation, coming from 1.00

00:49:36.220 your background, you have Ted Cruz and that group, the Baptist, Southern Baptist, being taken over, 0.78

00:49:44.160 the evangelicals being taken over by Christians. I'm not Southern Baptist, and so I will not claim 0.92

00:49:47.500 Tel Aviv Ted, just for the record, but I hear your point. Okay. You're right. You have the

00:49:51.740 Mainline denominations within the Protestant world that are flaming gay. 0.99

00:49:55.980 And then you have the evangelicals. 0.99

00:49:58.060 And I am an evangelical, and so I hear you, and it's fair.

00:50:01.180 And then the evangelicals, they've held the line on some of the moral issues, 0.56

00:50:04.480 but they are about as Zionist as it can get. 0.69

00:50:07.080 That's what you're saying? 0.89

00:50:07.680 Absolutely.

00:50:08.300 Yeah, that's true.

00:50:09.020 So you have a – like Oklahoma.

00:50:11.080 I have children in Oklahoma, and my son introduced me to this guy,

00:50:17.560 and Oklahoma is 100% pro-life and 100% pro-Israel.

00:50:24.500 And so I said to this guy,

00:50:25.720 do you know that abortion's a fundamental Jewish value?

00:50:31.060 That came out after Roe v. Wade was overturned.

00:50:34.340 400 Jewish organizations announced that abortion's a fundamental Jewish value.

00:50:39.140 How do you reconcile that?

00:50:40.500 They said it was a Jewish sacrament, is what they said. 0.97

00:50:44.900 Crazy. 0.78

00:50:45.560 Yes.

00:50:45.860 okay i saw i i said how do you reconcile that well next time i saw him he reconciled it by

00:50:53.360 becoming a catholic that's what happened you cannot reconcile this it's over it is over like

00:51:00.600 uh life site news begins a canadian operation our organization is based on the judeo-christian

00:51:07.400 understand uh the jale tradition judeo-christian position on abortion well guess what there is no

00:51:14.220 judeo-christian position on abortion the jews think it's a fundamental jewish value and the 0.57

00:51:21.340 catholic thinks it's an abomination and a crime it's not going to come together what we're going 0.76

00:51:26.480 to have is a fight the conflict is inevitable between the catholics and the jews over is there

00:51:34.740 a universal moral law you're you're absolutely right dr jones i wish we had had this conversation

00:51:40.780 earlier because i would have i would have pleaded with you to uh endorse this book i don't know if

00:51:46.060 you can see it through the camera but uh we published this in the beginning of january this

00:51:49.780 year uh myself and a co-author jordan hall but it's called the hyphenated heresy judeo-christianity

00:51:55.620 i think i think you would actually like it i think you would like good for you so i'm one of the few

00:52:00.660 by the way uh send me the book i'll send you my email address send me the book and i'll review it

00:52:05.840 I will. Thank you. But my point is to say that I'm with you on this Judeo-Christian misnomer.

00:52:14.260 What fellowship does light have with darkness, Jesus says? I mean, it's a jumbo shrimp. It's an 0.82

00:52:21.200 oxymoron and not one that's funny. Military intelligence. Yeah, exactly. So it's a huge

00:52:28.080 problem. But I'm with you, even though it grieves me because it's my people. It grieves me. But

00:52:35.820 But I have to admit, for the sake of intellectual honesty, that within evangelicals, on the

00:52:42.460 one hand, white evangelicals, you can just look at the voting charts, they are the ones

00:52:48.680 who are holding back the tide when it comes to some of the moral issues, the moral insanity, 0.78

00:52:54.340 the LGBT mafia, the abortion, all the way up to nine months. 1.00

00:52:57.880 Yeah, all those kinds of things. 1.00

00:52:58.880 White evangelicals here in America have voted more conservative than the Catholics, more

00:53:04.580 conservative than uh anybody else and yet at the same time uh the white evangelicals are the ones

00:53:12.540 holding open the doors to toledo and uh and letting those who are engineering these very problems

00:53:20.120 into the highest places of our government and and i have and i i see that i know that i you know i

00:53:27.720 can't i agree i'm glad you see it you we need to have this discussion it's just it's an important 0.97

00:53:33.720 I think you're absolutely right to say this whole Judeo-Christian thing is a myth. 0.95

00:53:38.900 It's over. 0.99

00:53:39.800 You can chart it.

00:53:41.300 The time, the frequency this word was used, it goes, soars up.

00:53:46.920 Maybe it's in your book around 1942.

00:53:49.240 It just starts skyrocketing.

00:53:51.200 Well, guess what that is? 0.94

00:53:52.240 We want the Jews to support the war against fascism.

00:53:55.960 So we're going to have this united front.

00:53:57.680 We'll call it Judeo-Christian. 0.97

00:53:59.140 It starts soaring into the stratosphere at that point. 0.71

00:54:01.740 You have National Review, you have the rabbi, what was his name,

00:54:07.340 the guy that was the rabbi for National Review,

00:54:10.280 the religion editor for National Review,

00:54:12.360 wrote a book called Protestant Catholic Jew, which is true. 0.99

00:54:15.180 The rabbi from National Review, I think his name was Buckley, right?

00:54:18.440 Is that correct?

00:54:19.520 No, no, no, no, no. 1.00

00:54:20.460 It was a Jew. 1.00

00:54:21.260 This was a Jew.

00:54:22.400 What was his name?

00:54:23.760 I don't know.

00:54:24.960 I'm blanking out. 1.00

00:54:27.100 Protestant Catholic Jew is the real ethnic identity of America. 0.91

00:54:31.200 I agree with that, but Judeo-Christian is a fiction that was created by the conservative movement to unite groups in support of our foreign policy, specifically during the war. 0.62

00:54:45.980 And now, as I said, once Roe versus Wade got overturned, the Jews let the cat out of the bag, and now it's a fiction that nobody can accept it anymore.

00:54:54.240 Well, and you see in real time, Netanyahu just a few days ago came out in a speech and guys have written an article. We actually, NXR Studios, the media company that I'm a part of, we published an article on our substack about it where in a portion of a recent speech from Netanyahu, he said that Jews are going to have to fight back in America.

00:55:18.240 jews in america are going to have to fight back against the rise of anti-semitism and the far

00:55:23.440 right you know and all this kind of stuff and that the roadmap and the coalition that they need to be

00:55:27.720 looking to the exemplars and he named three groups specifically he was like you know these three

00:55:33.280 groups blacks gays and there was one one other i can't remember but three different groups in

00:55:40.900 america's history that were all minorities that were discriminated against and picked on you know

00:55:45.720 when it was terribly unfair, but they, you know, they coalesced and they united and they fought

00:55:52.820 back with courage and they won. And so too now in the year of our Lord, 20, well, he wouldn't say

00:55:58.500 the year of our Lord, but 2026, you know, Jews, it's just the same as blacks. It's just the same 1.00

00:56:03.380 as the gays. It's just the same as, and then he even called for a coalition. Let's follow their 0.98

00:56:08.900 example, follow their political roadmap and how they achieved success, but let's also unite with

00:56:16.040 them as a part of our contingency. And I say that just to bring up that the Judeo-Christian,

00:56:21.940 I really think by the grace of God, if God would be so kind, and I think he will, and it really is

00:56:26.660 a kindness on his part if he does this, and I believe he will, I think that God is going to

00:56:31.660 lay that to rest once and for all, that it'll just become completely untenable in everyone's

00:56:36.500 eyes i mean from the epstein files the goyim absolutely you know there's so many things the

00:56:41.200 genocide you're absolutely right there's so many things untenable and it's at the point where you

00:56:45.920 know your sweet dispensational zionist grandma you know who would go to like hages church or 0.92

00:56:50.440 something like that even she's like googling goyim what is you know even she's like oh my goodness 0.90

00:56:56.020 this is ridiculous and so i think the judeo-christian is ending and my prediction is i think

00:57:01.180 what it'll become is um they'll come up with a you know something that has a little bit more of 0.96

00:57:06.020 ring to it but instead of the christian jewish alliance it's going to be the black jewish

00:57:10.760 alliance the gay jewish alliance the it's it's going to be that um i think here in america because

00:57:17.400 um melding with christianity i think is um that psyop is becoming so visible that it's it's just 0.56

00:57:26.180 impossible to continue at this point yeah the high point of gives me hope for protestants

00:57:32.060 a little bit i know that the high point the high point of protestant influence in the 20th century

00:57:38.100 was the civil rights movement which was the black jewish alliance it was that's what it was

00:57:43.880 okay and the protestants found were reinvigorated by this new social movement to basically bring 0.77

00:57:52.160 the negro up to equality and so on and so forth they've already done it they were the jews were

00:57:57.780 most successful when they were preceded as not their own protagonist, but the group that was

00:58:04.380 helping some other group find liberation. And at that point, it was the blacks. And there is still

00:58:11.040 nostalgia for this. I think Netanyahu's statement is probably nostalgia for that. But it blew up.

00:58:17.080 I'm sorry, but it blew up. 1967. And don't take my word for it. Take Murray Friedman's word for it.

00:58:23.480 He wrote a book. He was the head of the AJC, American Jewish Committee in Philadelphia.

00:58:27.600 And he wrote a book called What Went Wrong About the Collapse of the Black-Jewish Alliance.

00:58:33.180 And it was expressed at 67. It was the Arab-Israeli War.

00:58:38.820 The Jews got tired of these uppity blacks that were kind of kicking them out of their own movement. 0.98

00:58:44.420 The Ocean Hill-Brownsville teacher strike, when the blacks took over that school district, they kicked out every Jewish teacher. 0.98

00:58:50.760 and also a book by uh howard cruz called the crisis of the negro intellectual uh he ended up

00:58:58.720 being the chairman of the black studies program at the university of michigan uh but in the 30s

00:59:04.480 he was in the communist party in harlem and he said everything that uh we did as blacks was

00:59:11.400 to benefit the jews and he said it's over we're not gonna do it anymore so it's it's not as if it

00:59:17.300 It hasn't come about, it had its high point, it's dead now.

00:59:22.220 It's dead now. 0.89

00:59:22.960 And what the Netanyahu is going to have to face up to is the fact that the Jews have lost control of the Democratic Party. 0.81

00:59:31.280 The left collapsed in their support. 0.77

00:59:34.360 And now you have somebody like Zoran Mamdani, who is the new leader, de facto, of the Democratic Party. 0.99

00:59:42.900 And he's a Muslim.

00:59:43.820 right this is this is what they and he he got elected in spite of the tooth and nail opposition

00:59:52.320 of the ADL which supposedly runs New York this is a a change of a tectonic shift of enormous

01:00:01.180 importance and I think it's exactly what is happening at the beginning of the fourth

01:00:05.760 republic all those things are changing it's a new world we're sailing into uncharted waters

01:00:10.920 yes we are um so here at the end uh what what do you think i'd love to hear solutions if you got

01:00:19.680 any but i'd also love to hear predictions um are you hopeful at all because i i despite our hope

01:00:26.320 is in the lord amen right the battle our hope is in the lord he can win by many or by few and so

01:00:31.900 yes our hope is in the lord um but i have a hope not just in the lord in the in the 17th dimension

01:00:37.300 or the bottom of the ninth in his final physical return.

01:00:40.120 But I really do believe that the Lord Jesus Christ,

01:00:42.800 through his body, the church here on earth,

01:00:45.620 progressively within the gospel age,

01:00:48.160 that he would gradually gain victory.

01:00:50.580 The mustard seed would, in fact, grow into a great tree.

01:00:53.940 This is absolutely certain that Jesus Christ will triumph in the end,

01:00:58.940 that human history will have a positive outcome

01:01:01.540 because God is the Lord of human history.

01:01:04.820 Okay, how's it going to happen?

01:01:07.300 And I'll give you a Protestant guy who came up with the theory.

01:01:11.700 His name is Hegel.

01:01:13.240 He's a German philosopher.

01:01:15.300 He was a serious, he was studying Lutheran theology at the time of the French Revolution.

01:01:22.300 19 years old at the time of the French Revolution.

01:01:24.960 Swept away, pulled in two opposite directions.

01:01:27.840 Is it a revolution?

01:01:29.380 Is there a common denominator between the gospel and the revolution?

01:01:34.060 Is there a meaning to history?

01:01:35.660 can i explain this in terms that the enlightenment will understand this is what hegel is going

01:01:41.020 through hegel's mind and he comes up with this idea of the list the vernunft the cunning of

01:01:47.880 reason how does god act in human history the first problem when you say god is lord of human history

01:01:53.620 is well what about evil right is god the source of evil well no no well then he's not all powerful

01:01:59.980 then he's not in charge which is it you got it well this is the bible deals with this in the

01:02:05.340 story of joseph joseph was sold into slavery that's evil but god had a bigger plan and it had

01:02:13.700 he had to accept that evil in order to bring about the bigger plan which is that joseph would

01:02:18.380 eventually become head of the granaries and save uh israel from starvation many nations yeah no

01:02:25.340 you're right and many brothers what you and when he says at the at the end of genesis at the end of

01:02:32.060 genesis he says to his brothers the evil that you intended to do to me has been turned by god's power

01:02:37.720 into good that's the cunning of reason that's the way god works in human history and what we're 0.85

01:02:43.700 seeing here is the jews have all the money in the world if they got a problem with tiktok no problem 0.98

01:02:49.860 we'll buy tiktok and what they're doing is bringing about the exact opposite of what they 0.98

01:02:55.500 intent that is the more the jew talks the more you have listened to mark levine or rabbi shmuley 0.65

01:03:03.240 the more you're creating animus against jews and they can't understand what's going on more money

01:03:09.560 throw more money at it buy up buy up whatever it is kick off de-platform people and every time they

01:03:17.320 do this it gets worse and worse and worse and the classic example is jonathan greenblatt

01:03:23.220 all-powerful ADL, and he has to admit publicly that under his administration he has seen the

01:03:31.040 biggest rise in anti-Semitism since the ADL's foundation, and that they have completely lost

01:03:38.640 the younger generation. That is the cunning of reason. Yeah, that's a great point. So you're 0.99

01:03:44.540 saying, I mean, this is shocking, breaking news, but so you're saying like certain behaviors such

01:03:50.300 as roughing up tucker carlson a little bit the moment his plane lands in israel that those kinds

01:03:56.240 of things give jews a bad reputation are you kidding me of course it does of course it does

01:04:02.720 look if i were adolf hitler i'd put rabbi schmuley on the internet 24 7 and the only the only

01:04:10.300 alternative to rabbi schmuley would be mark levine right and you will bring about the exact 0.98

01:04:15.520 opposite of what you intend the meek will inherit the earth yeah that's well said that's hopeful 0.94

01:04:21.800 that's encouraging the meek will inherit the earth in the long run faithfulness always pays off so

01:04:28.360 thank you so much dr jones for coming on the show appreciate your time how can my listeners follow 0.77

01:04:33.220 you your books keep up with what you're doing yes go to the books my most recent book walking with

01:04:40.660 The Bible and the Gun, The Rise, Fall, and Return of American Identity

01:04:45.000 is available at fidelitypress.org.

01:04:48.140 Go to fidelitypress.org.

01:04:50.400 If you want to subscribe to Culture Wars magazine, go to culturewars.com.

01:04:55.060 These are the only places where these books are available.

01:04:58.500 Well, thank you so much.

01:04:59.540 I appreciate it.

01:05:00.500 God bless.

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01:06:39.680 all right i hope that you guys benefited from that interview with dr e michael jones it was

01:06:47.320 fascinating he is man especially he's a character for his age he is high energy that guy like he's

01:06:53.920 in it to win it and he feels very strongly about the things that he believes and i would say that's

01:06:59.500 a great deal of the things that he believes that we would agree with. Also, obviously,

01:07:05.000 we don't agree necessarily with some of his palpable disdain for Protestants.

01:07:12.240 But notice during the interview, he never personally insulted you. This is something

01:07:15.260 people need to learn when disagreeing. You can disagree with someone and disagree strongly.

01:07:20.700 Say, I really think this view has a lot of detriment. It's really destructive,

01:07:24.860 but I'm also not going to personally insult someone sitting across from me. I'm going to

01:07:28.060 show them Christian charity. I'm going to be respectful of them. And you can still hold that

01:07:31.780 view, but also be respectful. And hold it strongly. Yeah.

01:07:34.560 Yeah. We're talking about the public sphere, right? So it's like, I have to, to some extent,

01:07:37.900 I have to demonstrate that I have a distinction from you. I have to like stand on my conviction

01:07:41.860 and say, this is what I think. But also like when we talk in public, right, we're talking about

01:07:46.380 ideas writ large. Like we're obviously not saying something specific about the person

01:07:50.360 that we're sitting in front of when we make a criticism of a denomination or whatever the

01:07:54.580 cases. We're just talking about generalities, right? And if you want to win in politics,

01:07:59.600 you have to learn this skill. To build a coalition, there are going to be people you disagree with,

01:08:04.880 and you're going to have to learn how to keep them together, to hold your differences in tension,

01:08:08.380 to leave them aside and work towards a common goal to ultimately win in the end.

01:08:11.740 Right. There's a few things that I did kind of think were enlightening,

01:08:17.240 things that he would list as a con, which I think we would kind of refer to as a pro.

01:08:23.940 so let me break it down real quick i'll say it as simply as possible i think that protestantism

01:08:28.800 has a zionist problem we have said that multiple times and he's saying that he feels very strongly

01:08:34.700 about that i think he's right protestantism has a zionist problem um i think that catholicism

01:08:41.740 has a globalist problem uh when it comes to protestants it's like well uh if protestants

01:08:49.600 are in charge, you know, how many billions are we going to be giving to Israel? You know, who are

01:08:54.120 we going to be bombing in the Middle East for Israel? If Catholics are in charge, and what I 0.99

01:08:59.280 want to point out is I don't think that this is a, I don't think this is a coincidence. Dr. Michael

01:09:05.820 Jones, who is very, very Catholic, he recognizes some of the problems with Zionism. A lot of those

01:09:14.360 problems, feels very strongly about that. But he doesn't like, for instance, Nick Fuentes. He

01:09:20.900 appreciates things about Nick, but the things that he doesn't like are in regards to race.

01:09:26.880 And I think for someone like E. Michael Jones, he's much more comfortable than we would be

01:09:33.440 with certain things such as the great replacement. I think that for him, so long as they're Catholics 1.00

01:09:41.160 and they're devout and they're not zionist then okay well if america changes you know over the 0.89

01:09:49.160 next few decades in the way that it already has in the past few decades since the heart seller act

01:09:53.880 i think that he would be bothered by that maybe some but far less than we would in terms of

01:10:00.340 serious demographic change throughout countries and i think that that is kind of just the nature

01:10:05.920 I think that's true to Catholicism, so I'll make this statement. I think that E. Michael Jones is

01:10:12.120 a better, and when I say better, I mean a more consistent Catholic than, for instance, Nick

01:10:17.940 Fuentes. I actually do think that that's inherent to the Catholic position, that there's this

01:10:24.320 element, and we appreciate our Catholic friends very much, but I think there is an element of

01:10:29.600 catholicism being universal being global and the way that it's set up with the geographic

01:10:34.920 locale for its top leadership in terms of the papacy uh being in rome and that that you know

01:10:41.620 that pontiff that pope speaking for not just rome right not just italy but speaking for all the

01:10:48.080 nations um i i think that it gears towards it has a built-in bias towards globalism um where

01:10:56.600 where it's difficult, I think, for some of our Catholic friends to be able to hold the position

01:11:02.700 of, no, nations are sacred, right? They're established in God's sovereignty, they have

01:11:09.060 borders, they have times, and a nation is people and place. It's not just language and love and

01:11:15.840 tradition and laws. Those things are also integral to nationhood, but you can't define a nation just

01:11:24.040 by a set of propositions or even laws or the constitution or these kinds of things, a nation

01:11:29.240 fundamentally must include at its root, its foundation, people and place, lineage and land.

01:11:36.780 And I think that that is something more difficult for the Catholic to defend. So he even said,

01:11:43.340 he said, you know, basically Protestants are the inventors of racism. He said that race was

01:11:50.080 merely a social construct right that sure there are different phenotypes you know different skin

01:11:55.260 color on on the surface in terms of appearance but any biological difference between races that

01:12:01.800 goes any deeper than just the outward physical appearance of a person is a myth and a social

01:12:09.460 construct that was ultimately engineered by protestants in which case i would have to say

01:12:15.580 you know that's a classic protestant w um i don't think that that's true i don't think that

01:12:20.900 protestants invented uh the idea or the concept of race which is i don't think an invention

01:12:27.420 in the first place i think that that would be a discovery not an invention um so i i think that

01:12:33.520 that's really where the crux of our disagreement would lie is simply in regards to you know our

01:12:39.500 religious differences and distinctions of convictions, Protestant versus Catholic,

01:12:44.980 and then on the issue of race. I think that we would simply see race differently. But in what

01:12:53.420 he was articulating in kind of laying race at the feet of Protestants, as though it was a liability

01:12:59.160 and an invention of Protestants and therefore a failure, and the fact that he is Catholic and

01:13:05.240 this, I think, an inherent bent within the Catholic structure towards globalism and less

01:13:11.560 of an emphasis on lineage and land, Protestantism, I think, is geared towards nationalism.

01:13:18.920 Catholicism, I think, is geared towards globalism. And so I appreciated him articulating that,

01:13:25.000 although I disagree, because I think that that kind of lifts the veil a little bit and gives a

01:13:30.460 much more accurate picture of some of the political implications and national implications that stem

01:13:37.200 from the differences between Protestantism and Catholicism. I think that Catholicism really does

01:13:44.120 have a globalist, globalism problem. And I think that Nick Fuentes, who I agree with much more in

01:13:53.200 regards to nationalism and race and those kinds of issues, if I'm being honest, I think that Nick

01:14:01.240 is actually taking a detour from the universal Catholic position, whereas E. Michael Jones, 0.99

01:14:08.700 I think his position of race merely being a social construct, it's a bad idea, Protestants are at 0.92

01:14:14.080 fault for inventing it, and I think that that actually is very conducive with the Catholic 1.00

01:14:18.960 position. I found that probably the most interesting portion of the interview. What

01:14:23.600 do you guys think? A 1302 papal bull from Pope Boniface VIII, unum sanctum, one God, one faith,

01:14:29.820 one spiritual authority, it explicitly lays out that the Catholic spiritual authority of the

01:14:33.900 Church reigns over temporal matters. So one of the advantages, and it is an advantage,

01:14:38.600 is that there is a type of unity in Catholicism that Protestantism doesn't have. Now, however,

01:14:43.340 that unity applied to the natural sphere and to natural institutions, to your point, it can kind

01:14:48.540 of subsume, trample over, flatten nature, so the unity in the spiritual sense has some advantages.

01:14:55.200 However, if you're going to then take peoples and all these temporal things and flatten them under

01:14:58.900 this one unified spiritual banner, you get exactly what you've talked about. The national

01:15:03.240 distinctions begin to erode. Now, Protestantism, spiritually splintered, but better because of 1.00

01:15:08.680 its fragmented nature at keeping the natural categories together of people, of nation, of race,

01:15:13.360 and so both sides need to say, hey, if I'm Catholic, here's going to be the risk. We just

01:15:18.020 kind of let people in as long as they claim to be Catholic. Protestant. Right. If you're a white

01:15:23.260 Western country, it's like, hey, we had 50 million people come into the country in the last five

01:15:29.100 years. Are they Western? No. Are they white? No. Are they Catholic? Yes. When? I mean, Dr. Taylor

01:15:35.480 Marshall on an interview last year, you said that to him and he would say, yeah, if they came,

01:15:39.780 I would be happy they're Catholic. That is his words. We're not putting them in his mouth. He

01:15:42.780 wasn't under duress. He said, I would be happy because they're Catholic. Whereas it's funny

01:15:46.700 like in England, what did you have? People-wise, nation-wise, they still maintain being English.

01:15:52.660 And also a sect called the Puritans said, we're sailing to the new land to do it ourselves. 0.60

01:15:57.100 Spiritual fracturing, that would be the Catholicism corollary of the natural fracturing. So both

01:16:02.100 sides have to recognize, hey, there is a real ditch here that we have to avoid because of our

01:16:06.080 ecclesiastical structure. I've said it so many times, and I don't think that people have quite

01:16:09.700 picked it up yet. I understand that I'm risking an oversimplification saying it this way, but I

01:16:15.640 think that it's true, and it needs to be investigated, and people need to be aware of

01:16:20.200 this. If you are Catholic, the liability is, I think, globalism and not giving proper credence 0.87

01:16:29.100 to distinct peoples. If you are Protestant, the liability, I think, is Zionism and ultimately 0.84

01:16:35.900 interpreting biblical texts that give priority to the Jewish people and the nation-state of Israel 0.77

01:16:43.620 over all of the peoples on earth. 0.90

01:16:46.680 I think that those are two liabilities.

01:16:48.440 Now, the last thing that I'll say, though,

01:16:50.000 now, granted, take this with a grain of salt

01:16:51.720 because I am a Protestant after all,

01:16:53.580 so maybe I'm not being fair.

01:16:55.580 If I'm not being fair,

01:16:57.460 just give me the benefit that it's out of ignorance

01:17:00.260 because I'm not as well-versed in Catholicism

01:17:03.020 as I am in my own tradition of Protestantism.

01:17:05.660 But as I see it on the surface,

01:17:08.660 both positions have a liability.

01:17:11.520 They have an inclination, a propensity, Catholicism towards globalism, not valuing distinct peoples, right?

01:17:21.460 Missing some of these natural categories, Protestants valuing nationalism, lineage, land, peoples, distinctions, but Zionism.

01:17:31.060 However, I do think that globalism is inherent to Catholicism, or at least could be, in a way that Zionism is not inherent to Protestantism. 0.64

01:17:44.620 Are Protestants, on the whole, currently raging insufferable Zionists? 0.91

01:17:50.160 Yes and amen, 100%. 1.00

01:17:51.700 We know that's true.

01:17:52.680 I wish it wasn't, but that's undeniable. 0.79

01:17:54.940 But the question then, in terms of is it inherent, is, okay, is there something about the Protestant position, and E. Michael Jones got to this in our interview, that makes Protestants or forces, by necessity, forces Protestants to be Zionists.

01:18:14.240 And the answer there is no, because the best explanation that Dr. Jones was able to present

01:18:21.200 is the doctrine of Sola Scriptura.

01:18:23.960 But all Sola Scriptura does, and we wrestled a little bit on how that should actually be

01:18:29.140 defined, because I see the dangers of Sola Scriptura as well, although I think it's true.

01:18:33.780 But all that we were really able to settle on, and by his own admission, Sola Scriptura 0.95

01:18:39.840 does not force you into a Zionist exegesis.

01:18:43.480 All it does is it allows the layman independently to interpret scripture and come up with his

01:18:50.480 own opinions.

01:18:51.240 But that could go either way.

01:18:52.980 Martin Luther, the first Protestant, the first protester, the first reformed Protestant

01:18:58.740 individual, he held a Sola Scriptura and coined the phrase, and he also wrote a book called 0.65

01:19:05.620 The Jews and Their Lies, right? 0.61

01:19:07.660 So if we want to get real traditional and go back to our roots as Protestants, we've 1.00

01:19:12.820 got Martin Luther saying, hey, watch out for those guys, the Jews. So I don't think that a Zionist

01:19:19.400 worshiping of Jewish people in Israel is an inherent by necessity position of Protestantism, 0.65

01:19:27.380 whereas I do think that both positions have a problem, Catholic, globalism, Protestant,

01:19:34.100 Zionism. On the Catholic side, though, I see that problem of globalism being more inherent

01:19:40.500 to the Catholic position, more of a necessary logical outflow. Whereas Protestantism,

01:19:46.240 you can look at it in its history and recognize that this Zionistic tendency is a novel, 0.96

01:19:55.740 recent development. The fact that people get to read the Bible for themselves, 0.89

01:20:01.680 certain challenges that that presents, albeit, but the fact that people get to read the Scripture

01:20:07.520 for themselves and interpret the scripture for themselves does not necessarily mean that it's

01:20:15.500 baked into the equation that every Protestant is going to have to wind up being a dispensational

01:20:21.160 Zionist. I think that that's a particular era that we are in currently. It stems from Darby, 0.86

01:20:27.420 it stems from Schofield, it stems from millions and millions of dollars from Israel, the firm

01:20:33.700 organization that actually pays pastors and church leaders here in America to develop even for

01:20:42.020 children certain Sunday school curriculum that influences them to be pro-Israel, thinking that

01:20:50.260 that somehow will be pleasing to the Lord. So I don't see that as an inherent problem. It is a

01:20:55.240 problem. Protestants, they love them some Zionism. But I don't think that those two things go hand 0.89

01:21:01.100 in hand, two peas in a pod by necessity. I think that that's a current moment that we're in. The

01:21:06.940 ship needs to be righted. But one of my concerns is that if the Catholics win, and I love our 1.00

01:21:14.520 Catholic friends, but if they win and the WASP that built America, everybody historically 0.96

01:21:20.680 acknowledges that, including Dr. Jones. But if the WASP loses, you will fundamentally see the 0.63

01:21:28.220 nation changed in such a way that we'll never be able to go back again. Because the Catholic does 1.00

01:21:35.820 not really care about the wasp. He does not really care about America's history. He cares very much 0.99

01:21:42.300 about history 2,000 years ago, not so much about history in the 16th and 17th century here in

01:21:49.720 America. That's not really a priority for the Catholic in the way that it is for a Protestant.

01:21:56.540 And I found that to be a fascinating piece of the discussion.

01:22:00.620 That's it for our show today.

01:22:02.160 It is Friday.

01:22:03.280 And so we will not see you again until Monday at 12 p.m. Eastern time.

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01:22:24.660 And we want to try to build that up.

01:22:26.240 We think that Rumble is a great platform, and we would like to build an audience there.

01:22:31.800 And then lastly, again, at Joel Webin, that's my handle on X.

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01:23:00.200 Thanks for tuning in, and we will see you guys again on Monday.

01:23:03.840 Lord willing, God bless.

01:23:23.960 Thank you.

01:23:53.960 You

The NXR Podcast - February 27, 2026

NXR Livestream - Calvinism, Jews, & The Last Of The WASP w⧸Dr. E. Michael Jones

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