The NXR Podcast - NXR Livestream - Calvinism, Jews, & The Last Of The WASP w⧸Dr. E. Michael Jones

00:00:00 In today's episode, I will have the privilege of interviewing Dr. E. Michael Jones.

00:00:11 He is a best-selling author of multiple different publications, and he is a Catholic.

00:00:16 And as you will find in this episode, if you're not familiar with him already,

00:00:20 there are Catholics, and then there are super-duper-duper Catholics. 0.91

00:00:24 He is of the latter variety.

00:00:26 Dr. E. Michael Jones is not a fan of Protestantism.

00:00:30 and he is especially not a fan of Calvinist Protestants, of which, for those of you who don't

00:00:35 know, I happen to be one. So, in this interview, there are multiple points where I push back in a

00:00:41 respectful manner. But I had him on the show for one reason, and one reason only, not to disagree,

00:00:47 not to push back, although I do some of that, but because in multiple other arenas that are

00:00:52 vitally important, he and I agree entirely. In this episode, we're going to talk about

00:00:58 Catholicism, Protestants, how this shaped America. We talk about race. We talk about Jews. We talk 0.62

00:01:05 about Calvinism and how that shaped America, some of the pros, and in his perspective, many of the

00:01:12 cons. And most importantly, what we discuss in this particular interview is how all these pieces

00:01:18 historically play together and set the stage for what he predicts will be the future of these

00:01:23 United States. This is a fantastic and vitally important interview. I hope that you enjoy.

00:01:30 We'll get right to it after a brief message from one of our sponsors.

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00:03:23 2026 nxr 26 for 15 off radical christian nationalist pastor joel weapon joel weapon

00:03:34 i'm gonna talk about joel weapon joel weapon is an accident

00:03:46 I am joined today by a special guest. I have Dr. E. Michael Jones on the show. Dr. Jones,

00:04:04 thanks for coming. Thank you for having me, Joel. So for our listeners, many of them are

00:04:10 already aware of you. But for those who maybe aren't, what is it that you currently do? What

00:04:16 are the things that you have been known for, some of your writing, etc.? Okay, I started out to be a

00:04:23 professor of American literature, got a PhD from Temple University in 1979, got a job at St. Mary's

00:04:31 College across the street from Notre Dame in the same year, tenure track position, and I thought I

00:04:36 going to be an academe for the rest of my life but i got fired one year after i got there

00:04:41 because because of my uh i was against abortion so i kept trying to tell people well i got fired

00:04:50 because of my position on abortion from a catholic college and they say well you should have known i

00:04:54 said no i was against abortion i got fired for being against abortion so what i realized was

00:05:00 that the feminists had taken over st mary's college uh it was catholic in name only uh and

00:05:08 then i decided i better get out of academe while the acad uh getting is good and i became really 0.86

00:05:14 interested in sexual topics because it came became clear to me that there was a sexual subversion

00:05:22 that had taken place at notre dame beginning at notre dame 1965 when father hesperg was

00:05:28 collaborating with the Rockefellers to overturn the church's teaching on contraception, then it

00:05:35 blossomed into feminism, then it was abortion, and I thought, this is an important topic.

00:05:40 Yes, and it's all downstream. The fountainhead is the sexual revolution. It is unbridled perversion

00:05:46 and sex without consequence. Sex is God. It's not so much that killing babies is God. Killing 0.99

00:05:52 babies is a sacrament of worshiping the God, which is sex. Would you agree with that? 1.00

00:05:57 Right. I agree with you. I agree with you. And I think it's especially important for Americans, because we had no established religion here. And but but we had an established morality, we had a moral consensus. And the man who articulated that was John Adams, who said, we have no constitution that functions in the absence of a moral people.

00:06:22 right so by the middle of the 19th century you have a guy like ralph waldo emerson who is a

00:06:27 satanist when it comes to his thought there's no question about it if you read self-reliance he

00:06:34 says nothing matters but the integrity of your own mind and he said and so and he got that from

00:06:42 milton's paradise lost where satan says the mind is its own place okay and then someone in power

00:06:50 in self-reliance says well what if that's from below and he says well if that's from the devil

00:06:55 then i am of the devil's party but on the other hand he remained faithful to his wife and then

00:07:02 when it went over to england he met with carlisle and dickens at carlisle's uh farm up in scotland

00:07:08 and they were complaining about the the subversion of sexual morality and they assumed it was

00:07:14 universal and he said to them if you don't understand it american men go to their marriage

00:07:20 beds as virgins you don't understand anything so this was a really significant moment in american

00:07:27 history and i'm talking about the period after world war ii where we had the systematic undermining

00:07:34 of sexual morality as a form of social engineering that so that is what i would like to talk about

00:07:41 because i think that you are masterful on that particular topic and i think you're right that

00:07:45 you know this the sexual revolution and unbridled sexual you know satisfaction and perversion all

00:07:51 these kinds of things that's the god you have feminism and abortion and this that and the

00:07:56 other that are sacraments to this new religion but if you think of what is the purpose of this

00:08:00 religion why was it instituted it seems as though it was instituted for cultural and political

00:08:04 control that it's what i've told people several times is um you know we always say that you know

00:08:10 culture uh politics is downstream of culture and there's a truth to that but the reality is that

00:08:15 that it's true in both directions politics is downstream of the culture but also culture can

00:08:20 be downstream of politics it's not as though this is the analogy that i use it's not as though in

00:08:25 the 1950s 1959 i think leave it to beaver was black and white you know television and a hit show

00:08:30 it's not as though all these you know housewives got together and were like we love this television

00:08:35 show but the only thing it's missing is just you know butt sex and then you know they put pressure 0.78

00:08:41 and wrote letters and hollywood you know just relented and said well we have you know outstanding 0.90

00:08:45 morals but you know the the customer's always right and so i guess we'll go ahead and and put

00:08:50 in some you know immoral slop no it wasn't that the masses put pressure like this was engineered

00:08:56 from the elites the elites were the ones who were pushing immorality down our throats until 0.93

00:09:02 everybody coalesced and so can you talk about that sex sexual idolatry and confusion and addiction

00:09:10 as as a mechanism not not just as its own religion but a religion that was set up as a mechanism by

00:09:17 our elites in order to control the populace how does that work who are some of these elites

00:09:22 what was their purpose and what are they trying to attempt okay if you're talking about the

00:09:28 religion the name of the religion is science okay go ahead uh and uh i just wrote my autobiography

00:09:36 uh when i was in my mother's womb the kinsey report came out now uh this had a tremendous

00:09:46 effect on sexual morality in the united states of america because it basically decertified sexual

00:09:52 morality as some type of irrational taboo and this was portrayed by the this was a total top

00:09:59 down operation kinsey was being funded by the rockefeller foundation because the rockefeller

00:10:06 foundation wanted to promote birth control because they were obsessed with population control

00:10:10 and so they gave kinsey a credibility that he should not have had he was an entomology studied

00:10:16 gall wasps why why did that make him an expert on human sexuality okay but they he was a scientist

00:10:24 and once you say scientist that's the end of the discussion and so he was uh portrayed as such on

00:10:31 the cover of time magazine that was when i was five years old that was when the female version

00:10:37 of the skids report came out and he had a crew cut he had a bow tie and he had birds and bees

00:10:43 flying around him and he was basically a boy scout that's the way they portrayed him Kenzie 0.75

00:10:47 was a homosexual that's right I was one of the first people that understood that and said it 0.64

00:10:53 I said it because so 41 years after I'm born 41 years after the bad I was born under a bad sign

00:11:02 I was under a bad sign ever since I could crawl if it weren't for bad luck I'd have no luck at all

00:11:10 okay 41 years later i'm sitting in the uh home of paul gebhart who is the uh co-author of the

00:11:19 kinsey report the first co-author and uh i said to him well i just read in in the uh john barber

00:11:26 the ap reporter said that uh kinsey uh had the second largest pornography collection in the

00:11:32 world but the largest pornography collection was in the vatican i said is that true and he burst

00:11:39 out laughing he said no that's a joke Kinsey made up that joke because he'd like to get a rise

00:11:45 out of the the uh the the people the audience he made it up well wait a minute you you you wrecked

00:11:52 my life you don't wreck my life God God by the grace of God I've had a good life but you influenced

00:11:59 an entire generation with your inside joke okay well that's not the way it was portrayed uh in

00:12:08 in the world of time magazine and so what i began to realize is something happened here something

00:12:14 really seriously happened how can i get fired from a catholic college for being against abortion

00:12:19 something serious happened so i started doing the research over a period of time and eventually

00:12:24 came out with the book libido dominandi sexual liberation and political control i think i'm

00:12:31 the first guy who said it now obviously it's implicit it's implicit in the bible with the

00:12:36 story of samson and delilah yes okay now uh aquinas thomas aquinas says lust makes you blind

00:12:44 and samson was undefeatable in battle but when he fell under the wiles of delilah

00:12:49 uh what'd she do to him she gouts out his eyes he's blind and look where is your hero now as

00:12:56 milton said grinding at the in god eyeless in gaza grinding at the mill with slaves

00:13:01 so i wrote that book came out in 2003 and then uh one year later the event happened that proved

00:13:10 that i was right 2004 the israelis invade ramallah we're getting used to this now okay and they go

00:13:17 in and the first thing they do is take over the tv stations and they start broadcasting pornography

00:13:23 over the tv stations now why did they do that if you go to the american explanation of pornography

00:13:30 in movies like People vs. Larry

00:13:32 Flint or Boogie Nights, which came

00:13:34 out right around the time of the Communications

00:13:36 Decency Act. Larry Flint

00:13:38 says it. Pornography means

00:13:40 freedom. You're not

00:13:42 free unless you can buy a one-handed

00:13:44 magazine like Hustler.

00:13:46 Okay? Well, if that's the case,

00:13:48 the Israelis wanted to bring freedom

00:13:50 to the Palestinians.

00:13:52 That doesn't make any sense. 0.99

00:13:54 It's a form of control.

00:13:56 That proved the

00:13:58 thesis of my my piece and then to get back to Kinsey I go to the I'm doing research in the

00:14:04 Rockefeller archives and they show me the the file Wardell Pomeroy the other author of the

00:14:10 Kinsey report they show me his his his letter said to Alan Gregg the head of the Rockefeller

00:14:16 Foundation at that time war breaks out I think it's like 1942 something like that and Alan Gregg

00:14:22 writes the letters to the draft board at South Bend, Indiana, and says, please do not draft

00:14:27 Wardell Pomeroy. He's engaged in research which will lead to a control of large populations of

00:14:36 people. So there you had it right out of Alan Gregg's mouth. It's a form of control.

00:14:41 I couldn't help but think, Dr. Jones, as you were talking about Kinsey and his comments about the

00:14:47 vatican and the world's largest pornography collection and then him saying oh i'm joking

00:14:52 i i couldn't help but think of uh the proverbs that says um cursed is the man who harms his

00:14:58 neighbor and after doing so says i was only joking like there's there's literally a bible

00:15:04 verse about this you know like oh it was just and and people still do this you know to be honest

00:15:09 even guys that i might agree with on a host of topics you know saying things tongue in cheek in

00:15:14 order to maintain plausible deniability so that they can do incredible harm and yet do it with

00:15:22 him. By the way, Nick Fuentes is notorious for that type of behavior. He sometimes gets away

00:15:27 with some of that. I appreciate Nick and I would consider him in many regards a friend. And I think

00:15:32 he's one of the sharpest guys his age on a host of issues. But as a Christian minister, there is

00:15:40 some rhetoric and jokes that he says that i simply can't get behind no i agree have you ever spoken

00:15:48 with him i'm curious yeah i did an interview with him oh i met him i met him first went to chicago

00:15:53 actually we were both at a conference by roosh we don't hear much about roosh anymore but he was

00:16:00 talking at that point about how to pick up chicks and so i met him and i said well let's go out to

00:16:05 a bar. And he said, well, I'm only 18. So we couldn't go to a bar. He was that young at that

00:16:10 time, but still had that presence, still had that presence. And so we went and sat down and we didn't

00:16:16 have a meeting in the mines because I didn't know enough about him and he didn't know anything about

00:16:20 me. So it just, it just never happened, but he did interview me. But again, it wasn't really a

00:16:24 meeting in the mines because there was no, no substance. We couldn't find a common denominator

00:16:30 at that point. I would think, yeah. So I think at this point you'd have a lot more to talk about.

00:16:34 i think the common denominator in many regards would be catholicism for the two of you but also

00:16:40 uh to nick's credit um you know his you know his joking his rhetoric certainly there's things to

00:16:46 uh to disagree with but um you got to give him props he's 27 years old um he's not a womanizer

00:16:54 he's not a drunkard he's where so many of these young guys on the right wing i might agree with

00:17:01 some of their political takes but a lot of the guys are they're these up-and-coming guys it's

00:17:07 it's really discouraging because it's like i think they're right politically in many regards but

00:17:13 morally a lot of them are degenerate the new right uh the ascendant right whatever you want to call

00:17:20 it um it's it's a lot of degeneracy and and nick is kind of like one of the only guys in that scene

00:17:26 who at least at a personal level seems to have some discipline,

00:17:30 which is good.

00:17:31 Have you kept up at all with, you know,

00:17:35 maybe not in a friendship or speaking with him directly,

00:17:38 but have you watched any of his live streams and shows?

00:17:42 Which Nick Fuentes are you talking about?

00:17:45 I'm talking about the one and only.

00:17:46 Go ahead.

00:17:47 No, there are many Nick Fuentes.

00:17:50 Ah, I see. Explain.

00:17:51 This is the issue.

00:17:52 So it depends on which Nick Fuentes shows up.

00:17:55 so one Nick Fuentes says Christ is king and then the other Nick Fuentes invites Jared Taylor to

00:18:02 his conference to talk about race and I reached out to him I said Nick these are this is incompatible

00:18:08 these are two incompatible operating systems the race narrative and the Catholic narrative

00:18:14 are incompatible I'd like to come to your conference and help you sort this out well

00:18:19 he kind of it was uppity of me to talk that way so okay all right you don't have to invite me

00:18:25 to your conference that blew up anyway gyra taylor blew up his conference by making this 0.83

00:18:29 inflammatory racial speech at a nightclub in detroit bad idea bad idea but anyway blew it up

00:18:36 let's talk about that for a moment because i am i think that's probably the only two things

00:18:41 major things that you and i would disagree on is you're catholic i'm a protestant and then race

00:18:46 would be another. I would not describe myself. I told you before recording, I'm not a race

00:18:51 essentialist. I think that Christianity is much higher and much more important. I'm also not a

00:18:56 racial determinist. I actually think that peoples and groups of peoples and tribes can change

00:19:01 slowly, not in 15 minutes, but over the course of generations. And I think that we can point back

00:19:05 and see how this has occurred and how it could occur in the future. But at the same time, I would

00:19:11 say that I prescribe to a certain form of race realism. I think that race is not everything,

00:19:18 but I also don't think it's nothing. I'm curious your thoughts about race, because I know that

00:19:25 you emphasize Christianity, and so do I. I think that I would describe myself as a Christian

00:19:30 nationalist and not a white nationalist. However, I'm comfortable saying in the case of these United

00:19:35 States, that I would like to see this country remain predominantly white. I don't think it 1.00

00:19:41 has to be exclusively white, but predominantly white because it's our history, it's our heritage, 0.93

00:19:46 and the replacement of a native citizenship, I think, is gravely immoral. I'm curious, 0.68

00:19:53 your thoughts on race, because you say diametrically opposed with Catholicism.

00:20:00 To Catholicism, yes.

00:20:01 Could you flesh that out some? 1.00

00:20:03 Yeah, I'd say race is a Protestant invention. 0.99

00:20:06 And I'll be specific. 0.92

00:20:08 It's a social construct that was created in Virginia to divide the slave class.

00:20:15 You had slaves, Celtic slaves, and you had African slaves. 0.64

00:20:18 And at the time of Bacon's Rebellion, they united and almost overthrew the planter aristocracy. 0.80

00:20:24 And so they decided to divide and conquer, and they created the term white.

00:20:29 if you go i mean white as applied to people so if you go to the new oxford dictionary on historical

00:20:36 terms you'll find that the first use of white to describe people is in the 17th century and it is

00:20:42 a play about a plantation in virginia so it's it's a social construct that was created

00:20:50 for political purposes and economic purposes well what do i mean by a social construct okay

00:20:57 uh phenotype is real okay a category of reality so i look i i i am not white but i i'm biracial

00:21:06 i am irish and german and people who come from that area tend to have a certain look and i look

00:21:13 like one of them and i don't look like someone who grew up in africa that's real i'm not denying

00:21:17 that the grift comes in when you have a guy like jared taylor uh posting pictures of the absolute 0.95

00:21:24 ugliest negro you can find this guy's been beaten by an ugly stick for days on end and then you find 0.98

00:21:30 the most gorgeous blonde from sweden you can find you put them together and they're that inflames 1.00

00:21:36 some type of feeling okay that's not what i'm talking about here when you go from when you

00:21:43 shift from appearance to behavior this goes from being a category of reality to a category of the

00:21:52 mind and the main shift that takes place here is generally iq which is science which means you

00:21:59 can't can't disagree with it and so you'll see memes on uh internet on x something like that

00:22:07 the average iq of hate in haiti is 75 this is preposterous wow when did they ever give an

00:22:15 iq test in haiti and secondly what language was it given it creole do they have a creole

00:22:21 IQ test this was exposes when you shift from one to the other you're shifting away from

00:22:27 a phenotype which is real to a social construct which was created for political purposes to

00:22:33 privilege one group and disadvantage another. So that is what I have been told in regards to

00:22:42 your view so there's nothing that you said that uh that has surprised me or shocked me

00:22:45 I would disagree, but I'm aware. I'm curious though, if America, I think Christianity in the

00:22:56 macro, in the ultimate is absolutely the answer. We need revival. But at the same time, that even

00:23:03 if revival came to America, if we had, if America was re-Christianized in many ways, I feel like we

00:23:09 are a Christian nation, but currently in many ways in the process of apostasy and there needs

00:23:15 to be repentance and a return to the Lord Jesus Christ. But even if those things happen, there is

00:23:20 a truth to the fact that Jesus breaks down the walls of hostility between different tribes

00:23:26 and tongues and languages. But I feel like there's also something to be said for a homogenous society

00:23:33 that's high trust. How do you, I feel like right now we're not much of a nation at all. We're an

00:23:40 empire with multiple nations. And part of that is not just religion or ideology. There's certainly

00:23:47 that. But I think it also is different peoples, biologically, different tribes and tongues

00:23:53 and people. We don't even speak the same language in America anymore. But it sounds like you give

00:23:58 little credence to that. In 1979, Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin gifted Jerry Falwell

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00:24:26 His moral majority made backing Israel a core platform,

00:24:29 preaching American prosperity,

00:24:31 hinged upon blessing the Jewish state, 0.70

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00:24:55 well it's uh i think that samuel huntington dealt with this in 2001 right around the time

00:25:08 right around the time of 9-11 and he wrote a book called who are we samuel huntington is the man who

00:25:13 wrote the clash of civilizations he's the go-to guy for the american empire to understand itself

00:25:19 and he wrote basically

00:25:22 that an American

00:25:24 is an Anglo-Protestant.

00:25:26 There's a sense 0.98

00:25:27 in which I agree to that.

00:25:30 But how do we contextualize this?

00:25:32 We contextualize this by going

00:25:34 to the colonies

00:25:35 north of the United States

00:25:38 and south of the United States.

00:25:40 The northern part we're talking about

00:25:41 is Quebec and Quebec was a

00:25:43 Catholic colony and Catholic

00:25:46 colonies had a different

00:25:47 operating system. And this is memorialized in the Fort Michimilly Mackinac Park at the northern tip

00:25:55 of the lower peninsula of Michigan. And they have a video that explains the history there. And it

00:26:02 begins with a voyageur, the French fur trader, marrying an Indian maiden. And there's the

00:26:09 Catholic priest blessing the marriage. So in a Catholic culture, intermarriage is the hidden

00:26:15 grammar here okay but it goes on there the english take over they conquer wolf conquers quebec last

00:26:23 day of the year now we have a new operating system is called the english protestant operating system

00:26:30 and that's different that's another word for capitalism which is state-sponsored usury and so

00:26:36 they they bring a jew in to run the trading post this is not me it's in the video official video

00:26:42 state of michigan and again michigan's saying this the jew starts cheating the indians and at 0.65

00:26:48 that point the indians get upset they throw the highlight ball over the talkade can we come in 0.86

00:26:54 and get the ball they open the gates and they slaughter everyone and then they say we want to 0.99

00:27:00 be having allegiance to the king of france we're sick of this english stuff now the presbyterians

00:27:06 after the conquest show up in nova scotia okay they announce that they are bringing christ to

00:27:12 nova scotia and the people there and they refuse not only to speak micmac which is a native language

00:27:19 they refuse to speak french which they should know and they force everyone to speak english

00:27:25 and they announce you have to become a presbyterian because that is christianity and the natives say 0.80

00:27:31 well sorry we've been catholics christians for 200 years now we're not going to change now so

00:27:38 what was the english solution to this they put bounties on scalps you could go up there and make

00:27:44 money scalping uh the french micmac and then that didn't work and so what they do they shipped them

00:27:52 off to uh louisiana where they became cajuns long henry wasworth longfellow wrote a great poem

00:28:00 called evangeline about this tragedy and hoping they would all die in the fever swamps of

00:28:06 louisiana that's different that's different we have two fundamentally different operating systems

00:28:13 and what you had in america was a what we call a triple melting pot where ethnic identity

00:28:21 no matter where you come from after three generations your ethnic identity in america

00:28:27 It derives from religion.

00:28:29 And so we have three ethnic groups in America, Protestant, Catholic, Jew.

00:28:34 That is America. 0.54

00:28:36 Obviously, the Protestants were the dominant part for centuries, but now that's changing. 0.92

00:28:42 We're at the end of America's Third Republic, which began in 1945. 0.90

00:28:48 It lasts 80 years.

00:28:51 Things that we consider eternal are going to pass out of existence now.

00:28:56 we're all watching it happen uh like the united nations the fundamental uh the council the

00:29:03 fundamental organization of the third republic trump just uh told them we don't we're not

00:29:08 following you anywhere i'm not funny you it's over i'm saying also that protestantism is going

00:29:13 to is disappearing as we speak and protestants were in many ways a buffer between the catholics

00:29:20 and the jews and now we have uh open conflict and i'm referring specifically to what happened last

00:29:29 week when carrie prejean bowler was on the committee the trump's religious freedom committee

00:29:36 and she started talking to the jews in a way that jews had never heard before from an american

00:29:43 she's a beauty queen she uh she had a new donald trump blah blah blah and she starts saying well

00:29:50 wait a minute i'm not a zionist you have no right to impose your zionist ideology on me because i'm

00:30:00 a catholic now this is new but what i'm saying here this is the now fundamental conflict at the

00:30:07 beginning of america's fourth republic it's going to be between catholics and jews and the question

00:30:13 is, is there a universal moral law that is binding on the conscience of all men, because all men

00:30:21 were created by God with free will, or is there a group that has special DNA? To get back to the

00:30:28 race issue, which is what the Jews told Jesus Christ in John 8, when they said, we are the

00:30:34 seed of Abraham. Right. Yeah, we are the children of Abraham, which Jesus responds and ultimately 0.67

00:30:40 says, no, your father is the devil. So with that, I think that that's actually quite fascinating

00:30:48 because I'm willing to admit, even as a Protestant, that historically speaking,

00:30:53 it seems as though the Jews of history, the Jews of today, their greatest fear is the Catholic

00:31:00 monarchs. They're the ones who ultimately wouldn't tolerate any degree of subversion, 0.87

00:31:06 or usury or these kinds of practices and eventually would throw them out.

00:31:12 And yet they certainly, I have to admit, even though I don't particularly like it, 0.97

00:31:19 that Protestants have largely been much more susceptible to a lot of Jewish lies. 0.97

00:31:28 And it's not all Jews, but the lies that have come. 0.91

00:31:32 Let's be more specific. 0.85

00:31:34 Let's talk specifically about America.

00:31:36 Let's talk specifically about Massachusetts Bay Colony,

00:31:39 which was colonized by the Puritans.

00:31:42 Okay, go ahead. 1.00

00:31:44 This is a violent, Judaizing Protestant sect 1.00

00:31:49 that broke away from the kind of staid Anglicanism 0.98

00:31:53 that was the beginning of the Reformation.

00:31:57 Okay, these were people who, let's say Oliver Cromwell,

00:32:01 who's the head of this operation,

00:32:03 really took Protestant principles seriously,

00:32:06 specifically sola scriptura.

00:32:09 So he picks up the Bible,

00:32:12 immediately go to the Old Testament,

00:32:13 don't like the New Testament,

00:32:14 go to the Old Testament,

00:32:15 and he immediately says, I'm Gideon.

00:32:18 And as soon as he becomes Gideon, 0.62

00:32:21 anybody he doesn't like becomes Amalek. 0.89

00:32:24 So the first time around, 0.99

00:32:25 it was the Irish Catholics in Drogheda

00:32:28 who took refuge in the cathedral there thinking there was sanctuary in a church and uh cromwell

00:32:36 and his thugs went in there and slaughtered them all man woman and child second time around it's

00:32:43 the king phillips war where they apply the same principle of amalek to the uh native americans

00:32:50 third time around i'm skipping a higher head it's bb netanyahu who also believes in sola scriptura

00:33:00 he's saying i am gideon and the palestinians are amalek i'm saying there is a consistency here

00:33:08 of this behavior that is rooted in fundamental protestant principles like sola scriptura

00:33:15 For my sake, can you define, because I've had this conversation with many people, both Protestants and Catholics alike, and I've found that it's imperative that whoever you happen to be speaking to in the moment who does not like Sola Scriptura, and I'm picking up that you don't like it, it's very helpful to have them define Sola Scriptura.

00:33:36 So I'm curious, how would you define that particular doctrine?

00:33:39 By, by Scripture alone.

00:33:42 so the three solas are so by scripture alone so the three solas are sola fide by grace alone

00:33:50 sola fide by faith alone sola gratia by grace alone and sola scriptura by scripture alone

00:33:58 okay now what are we saying here i've said this before you've got a constitution but you got no

00:34:07 supreme court how do you i asked a protestant lady this she starts telling me sola scriptura

00:34:13 by the bubble all that i said well i just told you about uh bb net yahoo uh justifying the

00:34:21 extermination of palestinians by calling them amalek i said how what what controls do you put

00:34:28 on sola scriptura what parameters are that control your interpretations well there is none

00:34:35 Sola Scriptura is an ultimate principle.

00:34:38 Well, how do you prevent this from spiraling out of control

00:34:43 and ending up justifying genocide, as it did with Cromwell, 0.68

00:34:48 with the Puritans in Massachusetts, and with Bibi Netanyahu? 0.56

00:34:51 How do you prevent that? 0.96

00:34:53 Can I give you an answer?

00:34:55 Sure.

00:34:56 And you can disagree with it.

00:34:57 Yeah, so first, the way that I would define Sola Scriptura,

00:35:01 in my understanding from the Reformed tradition, which I happen to be a part of,

00:35:04 is, uh, Sola Scriptura is not that scripture is the only authority, but it's the only infallible

00:35:09 authority. And scripture itself testifies to many other authorities. Parents are authorities. You

00:35:13 know, you have civil magistrates that are authorities, ecclesiastical, spiritual authorities,

00:35:18 apostles and elders, presbyters, ministers. So there are other authorities that scripture itself

00:35:23 testifies to. So Sola Scriptura is not that scripture is the only authority. It's the only

00:35:27 authority that does not ever err, the only perfect infallible authority. And then secondly,

00:35:32 Sola Scriptura is also the highest authority. So there are other authorities subjected to

00:35:38 Scripture as the highest authority, and those other authorities, while being valid real authorities,

00:35:42 they're both errant authorities. They're authorities that can fault and err, and they're

00:35:48 also subjugated. They're lesser authorities. And so all that being said, to answer your question,

00:35:54 what I would say is that even if you deny Sola Scriptura, ultimately the problem in my purview

00:36:00 is not the doctrine of sola scriptura,

00:36:03 but the doctrine of simply human authority,

00:36:07 in this case civil,

00:36:09 that does not have checks and balances.

00:36:11 Because if you have, 0.84

00:36:13 you could have a Catholic king

00:36:15 who's subjected to the Pope,

00:36:17 but if the Pope speaks infallibly in that moment,

00:36:20 which is very rare, I acknowledge,

00:36:22 but if he determines and says,

00:36:24 these guys over here, the Palestinians are Amalek's,

00:36:26 then you're going to have the same problem. 1.00

00:36:28 In my view, the big problem is not the doctrine of Sola Scriptura

00:36:33 as much as it is not having a civil magistrate

00:36:37 who is held in check by other godly civil magistrates

00:36:42 and also the church, for that matter.

00:36:45 I think the church should have some authority

00:36:47 to be able to speak to the state.

00:36:48 So all that being said, what I constantly teach others

00:36:52 in this Protestant vein is, oh, we don't like the Pope.

00:36:55 but what protestantism has ultimately achieved is now we just have you know millions of little

00:37:00 popes and and i see that as a protestant it's a huge problem a huge problem everybody becomes

00:37:05 their own little pope like right what i realized was this it was you know probably about eight

00:37:10 years ago or so i i realized that personally and it was convicting for me you know and humbling

00:37:16 embarrassing to be honestly but it was it was somewhat shameful but i realized that you know

00:37:21 I would say, well, I don't like, you know, this tradition in church history, or I don't agree

00:37:25 with this particular creed or this particular council or this particular confession. It's just

00:37:30 the Bible. And then I finally realized as I got older, how stupid that was. Not because the Bible 1.00

00:37:36 is stupid. The Bible is incredible. I love the Bible. Right. It's the word of God. Amen. But 1.00

00:37:41 what I was presuming, which was so foolish, was I was creating a false dichotomy that said,

00:37:47 it's the Bible on this side over here, you have the Bible through some other lens and

00:37:53 interpretation. But over here, me being so pious and so superior, I've opted for the Bible alone.

00:38:00 But the Bible alone actually is not, it's not that it's not the best option. It's a non-existent

00:38:06 option. There is no such thing as the scripture not being interpreted. Whenever someone is using

00:38:13 the Bible, they are by default. So really what I realized is it's 2,000 years of the Bible through

00:38:20 this lens of church tradition and councils and creeds, or it's the Bible through Pastor Fred,

00:38:26 or it's the Bible through Sister Sally, or it's the Bible, but it's always the Bible through.

00:38:32 And so then it's not a matter of whether, but simply a matter of which someone is interpreting,

00:38:38 Someone is exegeting, you know, and applying.

00:38:42 And I don't think that when I came to that realization,

00:38:45 and of course I could be wrong, but when I came to that,

00:38:48 I didn't feel as though I had to throw out

00:38:50 Sola Scriptura wholesale, but I certainly needed

00:38:53 to get more particular and precise in the way

00:38:56 that I understood it.

00:38:58 I agree.

00:38:59 So what is new is not true, and what is true is not new.

00:39:03 That's the story of Protestantism.

00:39:06 so i i agree with you you're you're right we're talking about interpretations so again to give

00:39:12 another example john milton very important figure in american history uh married this woman and she

00:39:19 came from a big family they had good times together and suddenly she's off with this lonely poet

00:39:23 and she's unhappy so she leaves him well uh he i'm not going to take that you know uh i'm i want a

00:39:33 wife if this lady leaves me what am i going to do and so he goes to the bible and looks for a

00:39:38 justification for divorce well you go to the old testament and g i'm sorry go to the new testament

00:39:44 jesus christ has very specific things to say about divorce yes and it's not what he's looking for so

00:39:50 what's he do well go to the old testament then moses permitted divorce i'm saying what you're

00:39:56 really talking about here, and I think Nietzsche was the man who understood this, is will. Sola

00:40:03 Voluntate. What you're doing is imposing your will on God's Word, and you're coming up with 0.98

00:40:09 what you want. That's the problem here. What is there to prevent this? Right. And what you're 0.84

00:40:15 describing, that's eisegesis, to read into the text the preferences and opinions of men, your

00:40:20 own will, versus reading out of the text what God actually intends. And to read out of the text what

00:40:25 god intends is you know according to the performers the the only infallible interpretation

00:40:30 or interpreter of scripture is more scripture reading scripture in the larger context of

00:40:35 scripture but then fallible albeit fallible interpreters but but that doesn't mean that

00:40:41 they're petty or should be lightly dismissed is church authorities church authority actually

00:40:47 matters yeah so you know i even you know so i've spent my whole life as a baptist and i think that's

00:40:52 part of the problem in America is that America, it wasn't just Protestantism, but ultimately the

00:40:58 Presbyterians, you know, they kind of had the lion's share to begin with, but they ultimately

00:41:01 lost out to the Methodist, to the Baptist. And aside from just some of the doctrinal things,

00:41:06 one of the big contributing factors within Baptist and Methodist, which was the lion's

00:41:13 share of America and still is in many regards, is not so much their theology, but their

00:41:19 ecclesiastical polity. It's isolated, it's independent, it's autonomous. There's no

00:41:27 episcopal hierarchy of authority in the way that things work. And so I've thought about this quite

00:41:33 a bit. And I thought, you know what, it's probably not a coincidence that England, for instance,

00:41:39 it shifted back and forth at various times, Catholic or Protestant. But even when it was

00:41:43 Protestant, it's probably not a coincidence that within the Protestant moments of England's history,

00:41:49 it was anglican and not baptist you know or right methodist like there's still a a hierarchical

00:41:56 polity that's built into that structure i may not have a pope but there's still

00:42:01 a clear ladder uh degrees that's right and what what destroyed that the frontier the frontier

00:42:08 that's true this is this is my the thesis of walking with the bible on the gun is basically

00:42:14 the trajectory of American identity goes from east to west. And so it's, I took this idea from

00:42:21 Aquinas, existence calls forth essence into being. That's a total reversal of what Plato thought,

00:42:28 which was basically essence gets imposed on existence, which is totally meaningless.

00:42:33 Essence is abstract form. Existence is totally meaningless. You have to impose it on there,

00:42:38 the way you build like a Greek temple out of stone. He didn't know about God creating the

00:42:43 world. God, creation means that there is a logos in the universe, and you can discover this, okay?

00:42:52 So existence is now very important. So the Puritans arrive in Massachusetts Bay with their 0.57

00:42:58 Calvinist redaction of the Bible, and they start going west, and they're immediately confronted 0.96

00:43:04 with existence, and it changes almost immediately. Like overnight, not overnight, but within, let's

00:43:11 say, less than 100 years, you've got Solomon Stoddard, who's on the frontier now in the

00:43:16 middle of Massachusetts, got to come up with the halfway covenant.

00:43:20 Man, I'm surprised.

00:43:22 I did not know you knew about Solomon Stoddard.

00:43:24 You're talking about Jonathan Edwards' father-in-law, correct?

00:43:26 No.

00:43:27 Or grandfather.

00:43:28 Grandfather.

00:43:28 Grandfather, yeah.

00:43:29 That's interesting.

00:43:30 Yeah, I've read about that.

00:43:31 That's really cool that you...

00:43:33 Yeah, but you're right.

00:43:34 That was, you know, and it was, that was eisegesis, right?

00:43:37 So he's dealing with a contextual problem.

00:43:39 This is not some macro clear, you know, inherent thing to the scripture.

00:43:43 He's in a context, a local context, and he's got all these older parishioners and they're

00:43:49 adult children now.

00:43:50 They've grown.

00:43:51 They've all apostatized and have left the faith.

00:43:54 But the grandparents, in typical grandparent fashion, they really want those grandbabies

00:43:58 baptized.

00:44:00 And so they have to come up with a new doctrine.

00:44:02 Something's got to give.

00:44:03 Yep.

00:44:04 Something's got to give.

00:44:05 You're absolutely right.

00:44:06 and so what happens is we have to well is election in other words to be a puritan you have election

00:44:12 you have to be a member of the visible elect in order to be a member of the church

00:44:16 well is election uh transferable genetically the way the jews say it you know through your mother 0.59

00:44:24 is it dna is your election in your dna well they couldn't say that and so they have to come up with

00:44:30 some the halfway covenant to deal with reality okay it's not working the calvinist principles

00:44:38 are not working on the frontier this the society is disintegrating because you have inadequate

00:44:44 premises this continued the farther west you went the more the modification changed so you have

00:44:51 someone like lyman beecher who is probably the last calvinist he sends his son henry ward beecher

00:44:57 off to the wilderness of indiana by the time he reaches there he's a methodist

00:45:04 that was the modification that existence imposed on protestantism but i mean this is the cauldron

00:45:13 or the the the this is the cauldron out of which american identity emerges i think that's what i'm

00:45:20 saying i and i hear you and i think there's a lot of good points that you raise i think some of it

00:45:24 was inevitable. And underneath the sovereignty of God, not just inevitable, but I do think, well,

00:45:31 you're talking to a Calvinist for better or for worse. And so I do think that these things

00:45:35 ultimately have been used, good and bad, to bring about God's glory in the long run

00:45:41 and the good of those who are called according to his purposes and who love him. And I think

00:45:47 God is working all these things for good. But I look at it and I think, okay, you have this huge

00:45:51 landmass there's not really a way to to have a constructed um uh it's just it's a wild wild west

00:46:00 you're going to have a lot of independence autonomy and people going out there's no way to really hold

00:46:05 them accountable you've got circuit preachers you know we're going to this town to that town to that

00:46:10 town they haven't even had time to build a building much less you know um ordain a minister and these

00:46:15 kinds of things and so it's kind of a a race to the bottom the lowest common denominator the

00:46:20 theological, you know, academic standards, you know, go down, you know, standards for ordination

00:46:27 go down, all these kinds of things. And what it allows for, think of it like a franchise. It was

00:46:33 like the Protestant franchise in many ways. It's like Burger King, you know, and we want to get as 0.99

00:46:37 many Burger Kings as possible. And so, you know, it helps that it's a cheap burger and not a five

00:46:43 star, you know, steak, filet mignon. You know, that's hard to reproduce with consistency,

00:46:47 but you can reproduce slop with consistency it's a it's a much easier thing to do and and so i look

00:46:54 at like the american project and it actually makes a lot of sense to me that um that things

00:47:00 kind of degraded and and erased to the lowest common denominator um because you're just you're

00:47:05 settling um a continent in in many regards but now that things are are settled and have been for

00:47:14 quite some time it really makes logical sense like if i was predicting i'm not prescribing here

00:47:19 i am protestant and i love my tradition for better or worse but um if i'm predicting not prescribing

00:47:26 i i do think that it makes sense that now that america has been settled and civilized and

00:47:34 established for some time that things would begin in the ecclesiastical arena within the church

00:47:40 that a million different splinters and fracturing would not be viable long-term

00:47:47 and that things would synthesize eventually, inevitably, in the other direction.

00:47:52 And what was an asset, or at least perceived as an asset, like, hey, it's just a little bit of

00:47:59 water, a little bit of wine, a little bit of bread, and a Bible on horseback, and we can do church.

00:48:03 right and and america at a certain time that was uh you know that was an asset a simple church and

00:48:11 and an isolated fragment and we could just ride out west and and worship the lord and baptize in

00:48:17 the in the creek you know and uh these kinds of things but but that's not the america that we have

00:48:21 now and we have a fractured america racially culturally religiously you know ideologically

00:48:29 But a settled America, we don't have the wild, wild west.

00:48:31 And it makes sense that eventually, on the religious side of the aisle,

00:48:36 things would synthesize.

00:48:38 Somebody's going to win out, and there's going to be a push

00:48:44 for things being organized.

00:48:46 Right. 0.86

00:48:47 Call it Catholicism.

00:48:49 Catholicism is a viable candidate, no doubt.

00:48:52 I think that what's happening is that—

00:48:54 Or Anglicanism could maybe win out, but it probably won't be Baptist.

00:48:58 what you look uh let's take a state-of-the-art tucker carlson's debate with ted cruz okay that

00:49:06 shows the fracture in protestantism right now tucker carlson is an episcopalian his denomination

00:49:12 has been taken over by homosexuals yes he regards it ironically uh the mainstream didn't three

00:49:19 mainstream churches in south bend indiana the one thing they have in common mainstream protestant 0.92

00:49:23 churches. They all fly the gay flag outside their churches, and they're all competing for the 37 0.54

00:49:29 homosexuals who live in South Bend, Indiana. Okay, on the other side of the equation, coming from 1.00

00:49:36 your background, you have Ted Cruz and that group, the Baptist, Southern Baptist, being taken over, 0.78

00:49:44 the evangelicals being taken over by Christians. I'm not Southern Baptist, and so I will not claim 0.92

00:49:47 Tel Aviv Ted, just for the record, but I hear your point. Okay. You're right. You have the

00:49:51 Mainline denominations within the Protestant world that are flaming gay. 0.99

00:49:55 And then you have the evangelicals. 0.99

00:49:58 And I am an evangelical, and so I hear you, and it's fair.

00:50:01 And then the evangelicals, they've held the line on some of the moral issues, 0.56

00:50:04 but they are about as Zionist as it can get. 0.69

00:50:07 That's what you're saying? 0.89

00:50:07 Absolutely.

00:50:08 Yeah, that's true.

00:50:09 So you have a – like Oklahoma.

00:50:11 I have children in Oklahoma, and my son introduced me to this guy,

00:50:17 and Oklahoma is 100% pro-life and 100% pro-Israel.

00:50:24 And so I said to this guy,

00:50:25 do you know that abortion's a fundamental Jewish value?

00:50:31 That came out after Roe v. Wade was overturned.

00:50:34 400 Jewish organizations announced that abortion's a fundamental Jewish value.

00:50:39 How do you reconcile that?

00:50:40 They said it was a Jewish sacrament, is what they said. 0.97

00:50:44 Crazy. 0.78

00:50:45 Yes.

00:50:45 okay i saw i i said how do you reconcile that well next time i saw him he reconciled it by

00:50:53 becoming a catholic that's what happened you cannot reconcile this it's over it is over like

00:51:00 uh life site news begins a canadian operation our organization is based on the judeo-christian

00:51:07 understand uh the jale tradition judeo-christian position on abortion well guess what there is no

00:51:14 judeo-christian position on abortion the jews think it's a fundamental jewish value and the 0.57

00:51:21 catholic thinks it's an abomination and a crime it's not going to come together what we're going 0.76

00:51:26 to have is a fight the conflict is inevitable between the catholics and the jews over is there

00:51:34 a universal moral law you're you're absolutely right dr jones i wish we had had this conversation

00:51:40 earlier because i would have i would have pleaded with you to uh endorse this book i don't know if

00:51:46 you can see it through the camera but uh we published this in the beginning of january this

00:51:49 year uh myself and a co-author jordan hall but it's called the hyphenated heresy judeo-christianity

00:51:55 i think i think you would actually like it i think you would like good for you so i'm one of the few

00:52:00 by the way uh send me the book i'll send you my email address send me the book and i'll review it

00:52:05 I will. Thank you. But my point is to say that I'm with you on this Judeo-Christian misnomer.

00:52:14 What fellowship does light have with darkness, Jesus says? I mean, it's a jumbo shrimp. It's an 0.82

00:52:21 oxymoron and not one that's funny. Military intelligence. Yeah, exactly. So it's a huge

00:52:28 problem. But I'm with you, even though it grieves me because it's my people. It grieves me. But

00:52:35 But I have to admit, for the sake of intellectual honesty, that within evangelicals, on the

00:52:42 one hand, white evangelicals, you can just look at the voting charts, they are the ones

00:52:48 who are holding back the tide when it comes to some of the moral issues, the moral insanity, 0.78

00:52:54 the LGBT mafia, the abortion, all the way up to nine months. 1.00

00:52:57 Yeah, all those kinds of things. 1.00

00:52:58 White evangelicals here in America have voted more conservative than the Catholics, more

00:53:04 conservative than uh anybody else and yet at the same time uh the white evangelicals are the ones

00:53:12 holding open the doors to toledo and uh and letting those who are engineering these very problems

00:53:20 into the highest places of our government and and i have and i i see that i know that i you know i

00:53:27 can't i agree i'm glad you see it you we need to have this discussion it's just it's an important 0.97

00:53:33 I think you're absolutely right to say this whole Judeo-Christian thing is a myth. 0.95

00:53:38 It's over. 0.99

00:53:39 You can chart it.

00:53:41 The time, the frequency this word was used, it goes, soars up.

00:53:46 Maybe it's in your book around 1942.

00:53:49 It just starts skyrocketing.

00:53:51 Well, guess what that is? 0.94

00:53:52 We want the Jews to support the war against fascism.

00:53:55 So we're going to have this united front.

00:53:57 We'll call it Judeo-Christian. 0.97

00:53:59 It starts soaring into the stratosphere at that point. 0.71

00:54:01 You have National Review, you have the rabbi, what was his name,

00:54:07 the guy that was the rabbi for National Review,

00:54:10 the religion editor for National Review,

00:54:12 wrote a book called Protestant Catholic Jew, which is true. 0.99

00:54:15 The rabbi from National Review, I think his name was Buckley, right?

00:54:18 Is that correct?

00:54:19 No, no, no, no, no. 1.00

00:54:20 It was a Jew. 1.00

00:54:21 This was a Jew.

00:54:22 What was his name?

00:54:23 I don't know.

00:54:24 I'm blanking out. 1.00

00:54:27 Protestant Catholic Jew is the real ethnic identity of America. 0.91

00:54:31 I agree with that, but Judeo-Christian is a fiction that was created by the conservative movement to unite groups in support of our foreign policy, specifically during the war. 0.62

00:54:45 And now, as I said, once Roe versus Wade got overturned, the Jews let the cat out of the bag, and now it's a fiction that nobody can accept it anymore.

00:54:54 Well, and you see in real time, Netanyahu just a few days ago came out in a speech and guys have written an article. We actually, NXR Studios, the media company that I'm a part of, we published an article on our substack about it where in a portion of a recent speech from Netanyahu, he said that Jews are going to have to fight back in America.

00:55:18 jews in america are going to have to fight back against the rise of anti-semitism and the far

00:55:23 right you know and all this kind of stuff and that the roadmap and the coalition that they need to be

00:55:27 looking to the exemplars and he named three groups specifically he was like you know these three

00:55:33 groups blacks gays and there was one one other i can't remember but three different groups in

00:55:40 america's history that were all minorities that were discriminated against and picked on you know

00:55:45 when it was terribly unfair, but they, you know, they coalesced and they united and they fought

00:55:52 back with courage and they won. And so too now in the year of our Lord, 20, well, he wouldn't say

00:55:58 the year of our Lord, but 2026, you know, Jews, it's just the same as blacks. It's just the same 1.00

00:56:03 as the gays. It's just the same as, and then he even called for a coalition. Let's follow their 0.98

00:56:08 example, follow their political roadmap and how they achieved success, but let's also unite with

00:56:16 them as a part of our contingency. And I say that just to bring up that the Judeo-Christian,

00:56:21 I really think by the grace of God, if God would be so kind, and I think he will, and it really is

00:56:26 a kindness on his part if he does this, and I believe he will, I think that God is going to

00:56:31 lay that to rest once and for all, that it'll just become completely untenable in everyone's

00:56:36 eyes i mean from the epstein files the goyim absolutely you know there's so many things the

00:56:41 genocide you're absolutely right there's so many things untenable and it's at the point where you

00:56:45 know your sweet dispensational zionist grandma you know who would go to like hages church or 0.92

00:56:50 something like that even she's like googling goyim what is you know even she's like oh my goodness 0.90

00:56:56 this is ridiculous and so i think the judeo-christian is ending and my prediction is i think

00:57:01 what it'll become is um they'll come up with a you know something that has a little bit more of 0.96

00:57:06 ring to it but instead of the christian jewish alliance it's going to be the black jewish

00:57:10 alliance the gay jewish alliance the it's it's going to be that um i think here in america because

00:57:17 um melding with christianity i think is um that psyop is becoming so visible that it's it's just 0.56

00:57:26 impossible to continue at this point yeah the high point of gives me hope for protestants

00:57:32 a little bit i know that the high point the high point of protestant influence in the 20th century

00:57:38 was the civil rights movement which was the black jewish alliance it was that's what it was

00:57:43 okay and the protestants found were reinvigorated by this new social movement to basically bring 0.77

00:57:52 the negro up to equality and so on and so forth they've already done it they were the jews were

00:57:57 most successful when they were preceded as not their own protagonist, but the group that was

00:58:04 helping some other group find liberation. And at that point, it was the blacks. And there is still

00:58:11 nostalgia for this. I think Netanyahu's statement is probably nostalgia for that. But it blew up.

00:58:17 I'm sorry, but it blew up. 1967. And don't take my word for it. Take Murray Friedman's word for it.

00:58:23 He wrote a book. He was the head of the AJC, American Jewish Committee in Philadelphia.

00:58:27 And he wrote a book called What Went Wrong About the Collapse of the Black-Jewish Alliance.

00:58:33 And it was expressed at 67. It was the Arab-Israeli War.

00:58:38 The Jews got tired of these uppity blacks that were kind of kicking them out of their own movement. 0.98

00:58:44 The Ocean Hill-Brownsville teacher strike, when the blacks took over that school district, they kicked out every Jewish teacher. 0.98

00:58:50 and also a book by uh howard cruz called the crisis of the negro intellectual uh he ended up

00:58:58 being the chairman of the black studies program at the university of michigan uh but in the 30s

00:59:04 he was in the communist party in harlem and he said everything that uh we did as blacks was

00:59:11 to benefit the jews and he said it's over we're not gonna do it anymore so it's it's not as if it

00:59:17 It hasn't come about, it had its high point, it's dead now.

00:59:22 It's dead now. 0.89

00:59:22 And what the Netanyahu is going to have to face up to is the fact that the Jews have lost control of the Democratic Party. 0.81

00:59:31 The left collapsed in their support. 0.77

00:59:34 And now you have somebody like Zoran Mamdani, who is the new leader, de facto, of the Democratic Party. 0.99

00:59:42 And he's a Muslim.

00:59:43 right this is this is what they and he he got elected in spite of the tooth and nail opposition

00:59:52 of the ADL which supposedly runs New York this is a a change of a tectonic shift of enormous

01:00:01 importance and I think it's exactly what is happening at the beginning of the fourth

01:00:05 republic all those things are changing it's a new world we're sailing into uncharted waters

01:00:10 yes we are um so here at the end uh what what do you think i'd love to hear solutions if you got

01:00:19 any but i'd also love to hear predictions um are you hopeful at all because i i despite our hope

01:00:26 is in the lord amen right the battle our hope is in the lord he can win by many or by few and so

01:00:31 yes our hope is in the lord um but i have a hope not just in the lord in the in the 17th dimension

01:00:37 or the bottom of the ninth in his final physical return.

01:00:40 But I really do believe that the Lord Jesus Christ,

01:00:42 through his body, the church here on earth,

01:00:45 progressively within the gospel age,

01:00:48 that he would gradually gain victory.

01:00:50 The mustard seed would, in fact, grow into a great tree.

01:00:53 This is absolutely certain that Jesus Christ will triumph in the end,

01:00:58 that human history will have a positive outcome

01:01:01 because God is the Lord of human history.

01:01:04 Okay, how's it going to happen?

01:01:07 And I'll give you a Protestant guy who came up with the theory.

01:01:11 His name is Hegel.

01:01:13 He's a German philosopher.

01:01:15 He was a serious, he was studying Lutheran theology at the time of the French Revolution.

01:01:22 19 years old at the time of the French Revolution.

01:01:24 Swept away, pulled in two opposite directions.

01:01:27 Is it a revolution?

01:01:29 Is there a common denominator between the gospel and the revolution?

01:01:34 Is there a meaning to history?

01:01:35 can i explain this in terms that the enlightenment will understand this is what hegel is going

01:01:41 through hegel's mind and he comes up with this idea of the list the vernunft the cunning of

01:01:47 reason how does god act in human history the first problem when you say god is lord of human history

01:01:53 is well what about evil right is god the source of evil well no no well then he's not all powerful

01:01:59 then he's not in charge which is it you got it well this is the bible deals with this in the

01:02:05 story of joseph joseph was sold into slavery that's evil but god had a bigger plan and it had

01:02:13 he had to accept that evil in order to bring about the bigger plan which is that joseph would

01:02:18 eventually become head of the granaries and save uh israel from starvation many nations yeah no

01:02:25 you're right and many brothers what you and when he says at the at the end of genesis at the end of

01:02:32 genesis he says to his brothers the evil that you intended to do to me has been turned by god's power

01:02:37 into good that's the cunning of reason that's the way god works in human history and what we're 0.85

01:02:43 seeing here is the jews have all the money in the world if they got a problem with tiktok no problem 0.98

01:02:49 we'll buy tiktok and what they're doing is bringing about the exact opposite of what they 0.98

01:02:55 intent that is the more the jew talks the more you have listened to mark levine or rabbi shmuley 0.65

01:03:03 the more you're creating animus against jews and they can't understand what's going on more money

01:03:09 throw more money at it buy up buy up whatever it is kick off de-platform people and every time they

01:03:17 do this it gets worse and worse and worse and the classic example is jonathan greenblatt

01:03:23 all-powerful ADL, and he has to admit publicly that under his administration he has seen the

01:03:31 biggest rise in anti-Semitism since the ADL's foundation, and that they have completely lost

01:03:38 the younger generation. That is the cunning of reason. Yeah, that's a great point. So you're 0.99

01:03:44 saying, I mean, this is shocking, breaking news, but so you're saying like certain behaviors such

01:03:50 as roughing up tucker carlson a little bit the moment his plane lands in israel that those kinds

01:03:56 of things give jews a bad reputation are you kidding me of course it does of course it does

01:04:02 look if i were adolf hitler i'd put rabbi schmuley on the internet 24 7 and the only the only

01:04:10 alternative to rabbi schmuley would be mark levine right and you will bring about the exact 0.98

01:04:15 opposite of what you intend the meek will inherit the earth yeah that's well said that's hopeful 0.94

01:04:21 that's encouraging the meek will inherit the earth in the long run faithfulness always pays off so

01:04:28 thank you so much dr jones for coming on the show appreciate your time how can my listeners follow 0.77

01:04:33 you your books keep up with what you're doing yes go to the books my most recent book walking with

01:04:40 The Bible and the Gun, The Rise, Fall, and Return of American Identity

01:04:45 is available at fidelitypress.org.

01:04:48 Go to fidelitypress.org.

01:04:50 If you want to subscribe to Culture Wars magazine, go to culturewars.com.

01:04:55 These are the only places where these books are available.

01:04:58 Well, thank you so much.

01:04:59 I appreciate it.

01:05:00 God bless.

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01:06:39 all right i hope that you guys benefited from that interview with dr e michael jones it was

01:06:47 fascinating he is man especially he's a character for his age he is high energy that guy like he's

01:06:53 in it to win it and he feels very strongly about the things that he believes and i would say that's

01:06:59 a great deal of the things that he believes that we would agree with. Also, obviously,

01:07:05 we don't agree necessarily with some of his palpable disdain for Protestants.

01:07:12 But notice during the interview, he never personally insulted you. This is something

01:07:15 people need to learn when disagreeing. You can disagree with someone and disagree strongly.

01:07:20 Say, I really think this view has a lot of detriment. It's really destructive,

01:07:24 but I'm also not going to personally insult someone sitting across from me. I'm going to

01:07:28 show them Christian charity. I'm going to be respectful of them. And you can still hold that

01:07:31 view, but also be respectful. And hold it strongly. Yeah.

01:07:34 Yeah. We're talking about the public sphere, right? So it's like, I have to, to some extent,

01:07:37 I have to demonstrate that I have a distinction from you. I have to like stand on my conviction

01:07:41 and say, this is what I think. But also like when we talk in public, right, we're talking about

01:07:46 ideas writ large. Like we're obviously not saying something specific about the person

01:07:50 that we're sitting in front of when we make a criticism of a denomination or whatever the

01:07:54 cases. We're just talking about generalities, right? And if you want to win in politics,

01:07:59 you have to learn this skill. To build a coalition, there are going to be people you disagree with,

01:08:04 and you're going to have to learn how to keep them together, to hold your differences in tension,

01:08:08 to leave them aside and work towards a common goal to ultimately win in the end.

01:08:11 Right. There's a few things that I did kind of think were enlightening,

01:08:17 things that he would list as a con, which I think we would kind of refer to as a pro.

01:08:23 so let me break it down real quick i'll say it as simply as possible i think that protestantism

01:08:28 has a zionist problem we have said that multiple times and he's saying that he feels very strongly

01:08:34 about that i think he's right protestantism has a zionist problem um i think that catholicism

01:08:41 has a globalist problem uh when it comes to protestants it's like well uh if protestants

01:08:49 are in charge, you know, how many billions are we going to be giving to Israel? You know, who are

01:08:54 we going to be bombing in the Middle East for Israel? If Catholics are in charge, and what I 0.99

01:08:59 want to point out is I don't think that this is a, I don't think this is a coincidence. Dr. Michael

01:09:05 Jones, who is very, very Catholic, he recognizes some of the problems with Zionism. A lot of those

01:09:14 problems, feels very strongly about that. But he doesn't like, for instance, Nick Fuentes. He

01:09:20 appreciates things about Nick, but the things that he doesn't like are in regards to race.

01:09:26 And I think for someone like E. Michael Jones, he's much more comfortable than we would be

01:09:33 with certain things such as the great replacement. I think that for him, so long as they're Catholics 1.00

01:09:41 and they're devout and they're not zionist then okay well if america changes you know over the 0.89

01:09:49 next few decades in the way that it already has in the past few decades since the heart seller act

01:09:53 i think that he would be bothered by that maybe some but far less than we would in terms of

01:10:00 serious demographic change throughout countries and i think that that is kind of just the nature

01:10:05 I think that's true to Catholicism, so I'll make this statement. I think that E. Michael Jones is

01:10:12 a better, and when I say better, I mean a more consistent Catholic than, for instance, Nick

01:10:17 Fuentes. I actually do think that that's inherent to the Catholic position, that there's this

01:10:24 element, and we appreciate our Catholic friends very much, but I think there is an element of

01:10:29 catholicism being universal being global and the way that it's set up with the geographic

01:10:34 locale for its top leadership in terms of the papacy uh being in rome and that that you know

01:10:41 that pontiff that pope speaking for not just rome right not just italy but speaking for all the

01:10:48 nations um i i think that it gears towards it has a built-in bias towards globalism um where

01:10:56 where it's difficult, I think, for some of our Catholic friends to be able to hold the position

01:11:02 of, no, nations are sacred, right? They're established in God's sovereignty, they have

01:11:09 borders, they have times, and a nation is people and place. It's not just language and love and

01:11:15 tradition and laws. Those things are also integral to nationhood, but you can't define a nation just

01:11:24 by a set of propositions or even laws or the constitution or these kinds of things, a nation

01:11:29 fundamentally must include at its root, its foundation, people and place, lineage and land.

01:11:36 And I think that that is something more difficult for the Catholic to defend. So he even said,

01:11:43 he said, you know, basically Protestants are the inventors of racism. He said that race was

01:11:50 merely a social construct right that sure there are different phenotypes you know different skin

01:11:55 color on on the surface in terms of appearance but any biological difference between races that

01:12:01 goes any deeper than just the outward physical appearance of a person is a myth and a social

01:12:09 construct that was ultimately engineered by protestants in which case i would have to say

01:12:15 you know that's a classic protestant w um i don't think that that's true i don't think that

01:12:20 protestants invented uh the idea or the concept of race which is i don't think an invention

01:12:27 in the first place i think that that would be a discovery not an invention um so i i think that

01:12:33 that's really where the crux of our disagreement would lie is simply in regards to you know our

01:12:39 religious differences and distinctions of convictions, Protestant versus Catholic,

01:12:44 and then on the issue of race. I think that we would simply see race differently. But in what

01:12:53 he was articulating in kind of laying race at the feet of Protestants, as though it was a liability

01:12:59 and an invention of Protestants and therefore a failure, and the fact that he is Catholic and

01:13:05 this, I think, an inherent bent within the Catholic structure towards globalism and less

01:13:11 of an emphasis on lineage and land, Protestantism, I think, is geared towards nationalism.

01:13:18 Catholicism, I think, is geared towards globalism. And so I appreciated him articulating that,

01:13:25 although I disagree, because I think that that kind of lifts the veil a little bit and gives a

01:13:30 much more accurate picture of some of the political implications and national implications that stem

01:13:37 from the differences between Protestantism and Catholicism. I think that Catholicism really does

01:13:44 have a globalist, globalism problem. And I think that Nick Fuentes, who I agree with much more in

01:13:53 regards to nationalism and race and those kinds of issues, if I'm being honest, I think that Nick

01:14:01 is actually taking a detour from the universal Catholic position, whereas E. Michael Jones, 0.99

01:14:08 I think his position of race merely being a social construct, it's a bad idea, Protestants are at 0.92

01:14:14 fault for inventing it, and I think that that actually is very conducive with the Catholic 1.00

01:14:18 position. I found that probably the most interesting portion of the interview. What

01:14:23 do you guys think? A 1302 papal bull from Pope Boniface VIII, unum sanctum, one God, one faith,

01:14:29 one spiritual authority, it explicitly lays out that the Catholic spiritual authority of the

01:14:33 Church reigns over temporal matters. So one of the advantages, and it is an advantage,

01:14:38 is that there is a type of unity in Catholicism that Protestantism doesn't have. Now, however,

01:14:43 that unity applied to the natural sphere and to natural institutions, to your point, it can kind

01:14:48 of subsume, trample over, flatten nature, so the unity in the spiritual sense has some advantages.

01:14:55 However, if you're going to then take peoples and all these temporal things and flatten them under

01:14:58 this one unified spiritual banner, you get exactly what you've talked about. The national

01:15:03 distinctions begin to erode. Now, Protestantism, spiritually splintered, but better because of 1.00

01:15:08 its fragmented nature at keeping the natural categories together of people, of nation, of race,

01:15:13 and so both sides need to say, hey, if I'm Catholic, here's going to be the risk. We just

01:15:18 kind of let people in as long as they claim to be Catholic. Protestant. Right. If you're a white

01:15:23 Western country, it's like, hey, we had 50 million people come into the country in the last five

01:15:29 years. Are they Western? No. Are they white? No. Are they Catholic? Yes. When? I mean, Dr. Taylor

01:15:35 Marshall on an interview last year, you said that to him and he would say, yeah, if they came,

01:15:39 I would be happy they're Catholic. That is his words. We're not putting them in his mouth. He

01:15:42 wasn't under duress. He said, I would be happy because they're Catholic. Whereas it's funny

01:15:46 like in England, what did you have? People-wise, nation-wise, they still maintain being English.

01:15:52 And also a sect called the Puritans said, we're sailing to the new land to do it ourselves. 0.60

01:15:57 Spiritual fracturing, that would be the Catholicism corollary of the natural fracturing. So both

01:16:02 sides have to recognize, hey, there is a real ditch here that we have to avoid because of our

01:16:06 ecclesiastical structure. I've said it so many times, and I don't think that people have quite

01:16:09 picked it up yet. I understand that I'm risking an oversimplification saying it this way, but I

01:16:15 think that it's true, and it needs to be investigated, and people need to be aware of

01:16:20 this. If you are Catholic, the liability is, I think, globalism and not giving proper credence 0.87

01:16:29 to distinct peoples. If you are Protestant, the liability, I think, is Zionism and ultimately 0.84

01:16:35 interpreting biblical texts that give priority to the Jewish people and the nation-state of Israel 0.77

01:16:43 over all of the peoples on earth. 0.90

01:16:46 I think that those are two liabilities.

01:16:48 Now, the last thing that I'll say, though,

01:16:50 now, granted, take this with a grain of salt

01:16:51 because I am a Protestant after all,

01:16:53 so maybe I'm not being fair.

01:16:55 If I'm not being fair,

01:16:57 just give me the benefit that it's out of ignorance

01:17:00 because I'm not as well-versed in Catholicism

01:17:03 as I am in my own tradition of Protestantism.

01:17:05 But as I see it on the surface,

01:17:08 both positions have a liability.

01:17:11 They have an inclination, a propensity, Catholicism towards globalism, not valuing distinct peoples, right?

01:17:21 Missing some of these natural categories, Protestants valuing nationalism, lineage, land, peoples, distinctions, but Zionism.

01:17:31 However, I do think that globalism is inherent to Catholicism, or at least could be, in a way that Zionism is not inherent to Protestantism. 0.64

01:17:44 Are Protestants, on the whole, currently raging insufferable Zionists? 0.91

01:17:50 Yes and amen, 100%. 1.00

01:17:51 We know that's true.

01:17:52 I wish it wasn't, but that's undeniable. 0.79

01:17:54 But the question then, in terms of is it inherent, is, okay, is there something about the Protestant position, and E. Michael Jones got to this in our interview, that makes Protestants or forces, by necessity, forces Protestants to be Zionists.

01:18:14 And the answer there is no, because the best explanation that Dr. Jones was able to present

01:18:21 is the doctrine of Sola Scriptura.

01:18:23 But all Sola Scriptura does, and we wrestled a little bit on how that should actually be

01:18:29 defined, because I see the dangers of Sola Scriptura as well, although I think it's true.

01:18:33 But all that we were really able to settle on, and by his own admission, Sola Scriptura 0.95

01:18:39 does not force you into a Zionist exegesis.

01:18:43 All it does is it allows the layman independently to interpret scripture and come up with his

01:18:50 own opinions.

01:18:51 But that could go either way.

01:18:52 Martin Luther, the first Protestant, the first protester, the first reformed Protestant

01:18:58 individual, he held a Sola Scriptura and coined the phrase, and he also wrote a book called 0.65

01:19:05 The Jews and Their Lies, right? 0.61

01:19:07 So if we want to get real traditional and go back to our roots as Protestants, we've 1.00

01:19:12 got Martin Luther saying, hey, watch out for those guys, the Jews. So I don't think that a Zionist

01:19:19 worshiping of Jewish people in Israel is an inherent by necessity position of Protestantism, 0.65

01:19:27 whereas I do think that both positions have a problem, Catholic, globalism, Protestant,

01:19:34 Zionism. On the Catholic side, though, I see that problem of globalism being more inherent

01:19:40 to the Catholic position, more of a necessary logical outflow. Whereas Protestantism,

01:19:46 you can look at it in its history and recognize that this Zionistic tendency is a novel, 0.96

01:19:55 recent development. The fact that people get to read the Bible for themselves, 0.89

01:20:01 certain challenges that that presents, albeit, but the fact that people get to read the Scripture

01:20:07 for themselves and interpret the scripture for themselves does not necessarily mean that it's

01:20:15 baked into the equation that every Protestant is going to have to wind up being a dispensational

01:20:21 Zionist. I think that that's a particular era that we are in currently. It stems from Darby, 0.86

01:20:27 it stems from Schofield, it stems from millions and millions of dollars from Israel, the firm

01:20:33 organization that actually pays pastors and church leaders here in America to develop even for

01:20:42 children certain Sunday school curriculum that influences them to be pro-Israel, thinking that

01:20:50 that somehow will be pleasing to the Lord. So I don't see that as an inherent problem. It is a

01:20:55 problem. Protestants, they love them some Zionism. But I don't think that those two things go hand 0.89

01:21:01 in hand, two peas in a pod by necessity. I think that that's a current moment that we're in. The

01:21:06 ship needs to be righted. But one of my concerns is that if the Catholics win, and I love our 1.00

01:21:14 Catholic friends, but if they win and the WASP that built America, everybody historically 0.96

01:21:20 acknowledges that, including Dr. Jones. But if the WASP loses, you will fundamentally see the 0.63

01:21:28 nation changed in such a way that we'll never be able to go back again. Because the Catholic does 1.00

01:21:35 not really care about the wasp. He does not really care about America's history. He cares very much 0.99

01:21:42 about history 2,000 years ago, not so much about history in the 16th and 17th century here in

01:21:49 America. That's not really a priority for the Catholic in the way that it is for a Protestant.

01:21:56 And I found that to be a fascinating piece of the discussion.

01:22:00 That's it for our show today.

01:22:02 It is Friday.

01:22:03 And so we will not see you again until Monday at 12 p.m. Eastern time.

01:22:08 Again, right here at the end, if you will, make sure to subscribe on YouTube and click

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01:22:15 Do the same thing on Rumble.

01:22:17 We just started our Rumble channel this year.

01:22:20 So we just started the beginning of January.

01:22:22 It's only been a couple months, but it's growing.

01:22:24 And we want to try to build that up.

01:22:26 We think that Rumble is a great platform, and we would like to build an audience there.

01:22:31 And then lastly, again, at Joel Webin, that's my handle on X.

01:22:36 All of our video content is broadcasted there live right when it's happening, as well as

01:22:41 a host of other commentary and tweets.

01:22:44 And we also post our articles from Substack.

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01:22:53 So X might be the most important platform in many regards.

01:22:58 Again, the handle is at Joel Webin.

01:23:00 Thanks for tuning in, and we will see you guys again on Monday.

01:23:03 Lord willing, God bless.

01:23:23 Thank you.

01:23:53 You

`witch hunt`	Both words, anywhere in the episode.
`"witch hunt"`	The exact phrase.
`witch OR hunt`	Either word.
`"alpha male" -"high value"`	The first phrase, but not the second.
`(feminist OR feminism) AND (marriage OR divorce)`	Parentheses group alternatives.
`"decline civilization"~5`	Both words within 5 words of each other.

`misogyn*`	Any word starting with "misogyn": misogyny, misogynist, misogynistic…
`feminizm~1`	Words one letter off: catches typos and transcription errors.

`person:"Andrew Tate"`	Episodes where they host, guest, or are mentioned.
`host:"Glenn Beck"`	Episodes they host.
`guest:"Jordan Peterson"`	Episodes they appear on as a guest.
`mentioned:"Andrew Tate" -host:"Andrew Tate"`	Talked about on other people's shows.
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The NXR Podcast - February 27, 2026

NXR Livestream - Calvinism, Jews, & The Last Of The WASP w⧸Dr. E. Michael Jones

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Summary

Transcript