The NXR Podcast - April 08, 2023


QUESTIONS - Are Hip Pastors Who Wear Hats At Church In Sin？

Hosted by
Joel Webbon Harrison Smith Antonio Griffith Dale Partridge Wewsley Todd Calvin Robinson
Mentioned
Doug Wilson Paul Joe Biden
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Episode Stats


Length

14 minutes

Words per minute

186.53

Word count

2,748

Sentence count

95

Harmful content

Misogyny

13

sentences flagged

Toxicity

5

sentences flagged

Hate speech

16

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

In this episode, the guys debate whether or not head coverings are a sin. Doug Wilson argues that they are a necessary part of the Christian life, and that they should be worn in public, while Joel, the pastor, has his hat on in front of the whole congregation. Should he take it off or not?

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:00.000 All right, listen, guys, I get it.
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00:00:43.680 Joel, is my young and faithful pastor in sin while praying with his hat on in front of the
00:00:51.820 whole congregation. Yep. My goodness. Yeah. Yep. He's in sin. And to be fair, he's probably
00:01:00.320 ignorant, you know? Um, but yeah, that's, yeah, he's, he's in sin. Um, I mean, there's a debate 0.98
00:01:08.740 to be had. I don't know if it's a great debate, but I think there's a debate to be had in terms
00:01:12.900 of, you know, praying, um, in personal, uh, in personal private practices, practices of
00:01:20.760 piety, right?
00:01:21.760 Like fasting, scripture, reading, prayer, um, at the personal private level in your
00:01:27.280 daily spiritual disciplines.
00:01:29.560 Um, that would be one thing.
00:01:31.580 And even in that setting, um, I would say, go ahead and take your hat off.
00:01:35.720 But if we're talking, if we're talking Lord's day gathered worship, where the word is being
00:01:45.040 preached, the sacrament is being administered, the Lord's supper and baptism.
00:01:49.980 And it's, you know, it's the ordinary means of grace, publicly preaching the word, publicly
00:01:53.940 praying the word, praying.
00:01:55.780 I'm assuming that's the prayer you're referring to in the Lord's day gathering, publicly
00:01:59.540 preaching the word, publicly praying the word, publicly singing the word to God and also
00:02:04.860 addressing one another per ephesians and colossians and hymns and psalms and spiritual songs so
00:02:10.080 publicly singing the word and then the fourth of the ordinary means of grace publicly seeing
00:02:15.020 not singing but seeing s-e-e-i-n-g seeing the word and the only two images that are prescribed for us
00:02:21.680 by the lord jesus christ himself namely baptism of the lord's supper those are the ordinary means
00:02:26.700 of grace that need to be rightly administered by biblically qualified ordained officers of the
00:02:31.480 church elders and deacons when all the saints not virtually but physically gathered together
00:02:37.060 on the first day of the week the lord's day when christ rose from the dead that's church
00:02:41.140 and in that setting
00:02:43.300 dude's got a hat on
00:02:46.940 on stage as he's leading the church and i mean like paul doesn't just say it's a sin he says
00:02:54.820 it's embarrassing it's shameful the same way it's shameful for a man to have long hair and a woman
00:02:59.580 to have short hair it's also shameful if a woman won't cover her head and it's shameful if a man
00:03:04.220 will and it's funny with head coverings you know because there's there's guys and guys that i love
00:03:07.980 like doug wilson who i respect doug wilson is we're not pierce he is my superior yes he's a
00:03:15.420 better man than i am there's much controversy that he's a better man than i am and theologically
00:03:21.100 he's superior um but he's wrong about head coverings uh and and i'll say that i i would
00:03:28.060 more confidently say that Doug Wilson is wrong in his position about head coverings than I'll say
00:03:31.900 he's wrong in his position about baptism. I would have more hesitation in saying that I'm right
00:03:38.120 about credo baptism and Doug's wrong about pedo baptism. But I will confidently say that if
00:03:42.980 there's any one doctrine where I disagree with Doug Wilson and I stand the best chance of being
00:03:47.600 right and holding the actual biblical position and him being wrong, it's head coverings.
00:03:51.380 and on that note doug argues that you know well the last line in this text in first corinthians
00:03:58.280 11 paul says her hair is given to her for a covering so it's like yeah she better cover her
00:04:03.680 head she needs a covering she needs a covering she needs a covering but her hair is given to her 0.89
00:04:07.200 for a covering so there you go she's covered she just needs to have long hair which is insane when
00:04:12.500 you plug that back into the text because you know paul literally says in a portion of first
00:04:16.900 Corinthians 11, it says, if she will not, it says, if she will not have long hair, then she should
00:04:24.080 cut her hair short, or I'm sorry, if she will not cover her head, then she should cut her hair short
00:04:30.160 or shear her head, shave her head, for it is shameful for her not to cover her head. And so
00:04:38.120 what Paul is essentially saying is this, if a woman won't wear a head covering in worship and
00:04:43.960 prayer and prophesying, which I take as the chief marks of corporate worship on the Lord's
00:04:48.000 Day. We are prophesying, lowercase p, prophesying and praying. Prophesying, thus saith the Lord,
00:04:54.680 he's speaking to the people of God. Praying, the people speaking to God. God speaks to the people,
00:04:58.800 the people speak to God. Prayer and prophecy is the two primary parts of what we do on the Lord's
00:05:03.640 Day when we gather together. That's what church is. It's prayer and prophecy. God speaks to us,
00:05:07.180 we speak to him. He speaks to us through the sacraments, through his word. We speak to him
00:05:11.300 through singing song and and prayer so praying the word we speak to god uh singing the word we speak
00:05:17.420 to god um preaching the word god speaks to us seeing the word and the sacrament of the lord's
00:05:22.480 supper and baptism god speaks to us so prophesy uh that's lord speaking to us thus saith the lord
00:05:28.460 prayer and singing that's that's us speaking to god so prayer and prophecy and that's first
00:05:33.500 corinthians 11 praying and prophecy that's when the covering needs to be there and what is prayer
00:05:36.900 in prophecy it's god speaking to us us speaking to god which is the whole makeup of lord's day
00:05:41.560 worship so cover your head if you're a woman at church and don't cover your head if you're a man 0.75
00:05:45.760 at church all that being said back back to the text in first corinthians 11 if a woman will not
00:05:49.840 cover her head she should cut her hair short now remember at the end her hair is given to her for
00:05:54.520 covering now it's an entirely different greek word there than it's been used the entire time
00:05:58.880 so it's not saying that the hair is given to her as the only cover she needs it's saying no the hair
00:06:03.760 has been given to her by God. And this is an argument from nature, just in God's natural
00:06:08.420 design, um, that the woman has been given long hair as a natural covering. And that testifies 0.96
00:06:14.200 that she should be further covered on the Lord's day. The fact that God gave her a natural covering
00:06:18.840 testifies and confirms that she should be covered. That's what Paul's saying. He says, you know,
00:06:24.900 for the hair is given to her as a covering. Whereas Doug Wilson, again, who I respect immensely
00:06:28.840 would say oh there it is you know she's got a covering like no the hair is given as a natural
00:06:34.500 covering confirming that she needs to be further covered um and doug's gonna say oh the hair is
00:06:39.180 given to her as a covering so as long as a woman has long hair that is the covering and she doesn't 0.90
00:06:42.920 need a cover and again the reason that doesn't work is because if she will not cover her head
00:06:47.780 she should cut her hair short so now plug in doug wilson's hermeneutic if he's saying that the hair
00:06:53.080 is a covering and that's the only covering that's needed then then if she will not cover her head
00:06:58.080 she should cut her hair short. Well, if the hair is a covering, then essentially, um, what Paul
00:07:03.460 would be saying is if she has short hair, she should cut her hair short, right? Cause the hair
00:07:09.120 is the cover. If she doesn't have long hair, she should cut her hair short. Think about that. So 1.00
00:07:13.560 if, if her hair is already short, then she should cut her hair short, which is already short. But
00:07:20.480 if her head, uh, if her hair isn't, if her head isn't covered because she doesn't have hair and 0.58
00:07:25.260 hair is a covering because she's bald then she should shave her head but it's already shaved 0.98
00:07:30.300 because she's already bald it's just i mean it's dumb it's dumb and um i mean it really is i think 0.98
00:07:40.020 one of the clearest texts in scripture uh head covering so all that being said back to you know 0.97
00:07:44.520 your pastor wearing a hat because the woman should cover but the man should not and with your pastor
00:07:49.760 wearing a hat i mean that's one of those things that has kind of stood the test of time at least
00:07:54.140 you know where i am you know in god's country texas you know like you still i mean you could
00:07:58.400 you could be at the rodeo on a thursday afternoon it's not the lord's day it's not church it's not
00:08:03.280 the gathered saints there's no administering of the ordinary means of grace it's bull riding
00:08:07.140 and uh and somebody will pray god bless america you know and and all the men will be taking off
00:08:15.560 their cowboy hats right a baseball game somebody prays and what do people do that the men instinctively
00:08:21.800 right it's just built into our culture it's it's one of our cultural rituals men take off their
00:08:26.760 hat you sing the the the uh the national anthem right it's not even to god but just anything
00:08:32.100 that signifies some kind it's it's a a moment of respect a moment of honor and what do men do in
00:08:36.880 moments like that they take off their hat at a funeral men aren't wearing hats they take off
00:08:41.740 their hat at a wedding like any anything anything of pomp and circumstance anything of um that's
00:08:49.840 formal that's official and it's certainly anything of reverence and respect men take off their hat
00:08:57.980 because they know that it's shameful to cover their head because man is the glory of christ
00:09:04.380 right christ is the glory of god man is the glory of christ and woman is the glory of man
00:09:10.360 and the hair woman's hair is the glory of woman and man knows that the glory of god instinctively
00:09:16.660 Man knows, even pagan men know, that in God-like moments, in reverent moments, moments of honoring God, moments of worship, that the man should not be covered.
00:09:31.340 The man rather should display God's glory.
00:09:34.140 Man is the image, and both men and women bear the image of God.
00:09:38.900 But the scripture teaches, Paul says in 1 Corinthians 11, that man bears not just the image.
00:09:43.360 woman bears the image of God, but man bears the image and glory of God. And the glory of God in
00:09:49.820 man shouldn't, should be on display. God's glory should be on display. Um, whereas the glory of
00:09:55.880 man that woman bears, she bears the glory of man, man's glory should be covered, right? So it's not 0.93
00:10:01.580 just an argument about authority and submission. It's an argument about glory and whose glory
00:10:06.960 gets to be put center stage on display at church on the Lord's day in the worship of the triune
00:10:14.020 God and whose glory should not be a distraction and should be veiled right so the glory of man
00:10:20.140 which is woman should be veiled in the worship of God but the glory of God in the worship of God
00:10:25.760 should be put on display so man who is the glory of God does not cover his head but woman who is
00:10:30.220 the glory of man does it's real simple it's it's really not that hard of a text I'll tell you
00:10:36.540 I'll tell you what makes it hard. 1.00
00:10:41.020 100, 130 years of feminism. 1.00
00:10:46.500 That's what makes 1 Corinthians 11 hard to exigate. 1.00
00:10:50.540 Feminism makes it hard. 1.00
00:10:52.320 The text itself is not hard. 1.00
00:10:54.360 But feminism makes it real hard. 1.00
00:10:56.920 It's hard to interpret something you don't want to interpret, 1.00
00:11:02.280 that you're scared to interpret. 1.00
00:11:03.860 So all that being said, women should cover their head. 1.00
00:11:07.960 Men should not cover their head. 0.99
00:11:09.940 I would argue, I mean, you can make an argue that it belongs to the function of prayer
00:11:13.160 and prophecy.
00:11:13.620 So anytime you're praying or prophesying, even in your home, at your dinner table with 0.71
00:11:17.420 your family, men should uncover their head. 1.00
00:11:19.560 Women should cover their head. 0.98
00:11:20.920 That would be Dale Partridge's argument. 1.00
00:11:23.280 I tend to agree with him.
00:11:25.000 I think that's probably correct.
00:11:26.520 But certainly prayer and prophecy in their corporate function, that when the church gathers
00:11:31.040 on the Lord's day, it is exclusively.
00:11:33.160 like 100% of what the church is doing when it gathers on the Lord's day is, it falls into one
00:11:37.640 of those two categories of praying or prophesying. And so if there's any place, the first place to
00:11:43.040 start, uh, practice of covering, if you're a woman who's never covered her head, first place to start 0.55
00:11:48.160 would not be Tuesday night at the dinner table. When, when your husband prays before you eat,
00:11:52.180 uh, first place to start would be the Lord's day. That's the clearest. And, um, and so I say all
00:11:58.160 that to say on the lord's day especially in church a woman should cover her head and a man should not 0.89
00:12:04.500 cover his head but in our culture the reason why i'm kind of picking on your pastor a little bit 0.76
00:12:09.800 i think he deserves it is because in our culture um it's because of feminism it is very uncommon 0.56
00:12:16.880 for women to cover their head these days in church but but it is exceedingly common for men not to
00:12:23.400 wear hats despite all the feminism despite all the bad exegetical takes on first corinthians 11
00:12:30.400 in head coverings still despite all that most men still know better than to wear a hat at church
00:12:39.860 much less wear a hat on stage as the pastor while praying at church so yeah he's in sin and not just
00:12:46.980 but according to the bible it's not just me saying shame on him the apostle paul literally uses the
00:12:51.560 word shameful so yeah your your pastor is doing something shameful and i think you know be humble
00:12:57.420 about it but i i've you know privately pull him aside and say hey i love you and i hate to see
00:13:03.620 you embarrassing yourself because that's literally what he's doing it's shameful can i be frank with
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