The NXR Podcast - QUESTIONS - Can Anything Good Come From Asbury？

00:00:00.000 All right, listen guys, I get it. Many of you are unable to financially support this ministry

00:00:04.620 because you're spending your cash and your lives on raising young children in the fear and admonition

00:00:09.880 of the Lord. Praise God for you and that endeavor. However, algorithms are a thing. Shadow banning

00:00:16.860 sadly is a thing. And one major way that you can help to expand the reach and effectiveness of

00:00:23.400 this ministry that doesn't cost you a dime is by spending just a few moments leaving us

00:00:28.880 a five-star review. Also, perhaps even more effective than that, you can share our podcast

00:00:35.220 with a friend. We hope you'll take the time to do so. Thank you so much. God bless.

00:00:40.060 Elliot Cole, Elliot Cole, what good do you think could come from the Asbury revival, if any?

00:00:48.580 Well, I think a lot of good can come because God is sovereign over all things. So let me parse that

00:00:54.900 out for a moment. I believe that God is sovereign over every molecule in the universe. That's

00:01:01.540 another Sproul quote, right? There's not one maverick molecule in all the universe. So I

00:01:07.000 believe that God is not just sovereign over big things, but that God is meticulously sovereign

00:01:11.760 over all things. I do believe in human culpability, in human liberty of the will,

00:01:18.200 human will human agency um but not autonomous human freedom i believe that god is the only

00:01:26.400 autonomous being right so if you think of definitions for free will for lack of a better

00:01:33.280 phrase it's a bit played out and it's so misunderstood but if we look at different

00:01:38.340 definitions there's a libertarian definition of free will there's the compatibilistic definition

00:01:43.360 the deterministic definition, the Molinistic, Molinism definition of free will, and all these

00:01:50.080 different ways. Basically, what they're all trying to define, the question they're all trying to

00:01:54.840 answer is what is the nature of the relationship between the sovereignty of God and human agency

00:02:01.380 or creaturely agency? I believe that man is culpable. He's morally responsible for the

00:02:07.540 choices that he makes. I believe he's morally responsible because he is free. He makes choices

00:02:14.020 freely. That's why he is responsible for those choices. But man is not free in such a way

00:02:20.200 that God's true and ultimate autonomous freedom is limited. God is not limited by the choices of

00:02:28.700 the creature. We start from the creator. We start from the top and work down to the creature. We

00:02:33.680 don't start with the creature and say, well, what kind of choices, what's the limit of our freedom

00:02:38.280 of choices? And then whatever's left over, we'll go ahead and give that to God. No, it starts with

00:02:43.360 God as creator. What are the limits of his freedom? What does he have license over? Whatever's left,

00:02:50.200 that's what's then given to the creature. The idea of man being morally responsible for the choices

00:02:55.820 that he makes and God being meticulously sovereign over all things in the universe, these two things

00:03:01.520 are both clearly, clearly displayed in the Bible. The Bible affirms both. And so there is some kind

00:03:09.840 of relationship without going into too much depth. There is some kind of relationship to where man

00:03:14.780 can be morally responsible for making free choices. And God is the only autonomously free

00:03:20.380 being in all the universe. And therefore he is meticulously sovereign over all the affairs

00:03:26.900 of his creation those things are both affirmed by the scripture or one of the classic texts would

00:03:33.460 be in the book of genesis where joseph he says to his brothers right when they're reconciled and

00:03:38.580 his brothers sold him into slavery in egypt and they're now being reconciled and joseph tells his

00:03:43.800 brothers what you meant for evil god meant for good notice the wording there is not you meant

00:03:51.260 meaning you planned something. You intended it. You had an intention, a motive. You planned this

00:03:59.540 and did this and meant it for my harm, for my detriment, for evil. But God salvaged it for

00:04:07.300 good. That's not what the Bible says. It's the same word, same Hebrew word is used. The brothers

00:04:14.240 of Joseph, they planned and meant and intended something where they had the motive of doing

00:04:20.340 harm to Joseph, of doing him evil. God didn't just salvage the evil intent of Joseph's brothers

00:04:28.400 and turn it for good. It's not that Joseph's brothers threw lemons at him and God turned

00:04:35.260 those lemons into lemonade. No, it's the same word. The brothers meant something for evil.

00:04:40.840 God meant it. God planned it. God orchestrated it. God initiated it for good. Same as Romans chapter

00:04:49.140 8. God works all things. He salvages those things. The word works in that context, it means

00:04:58.060 he's orchestrating. He does, performs all things. God is not salvaging all things or turning all

00:05:06.080 things or just redeeming all things, but God works. He does, ordains, orchestrates all things

00:05:15.300 for the good of those who love him and are called according to his purposes. So God is sovereign

00:05:21.700 over all things, and that includes sickness, suffering, and sin, even sin. God was sovereign

00:05:30.160 over the sin of Joseph's brothers. What they did was evil, but God was meticulously sovereign even

00:05:37.280 over their sin and use it for good. Think of the story of Job. Just in the first two chapters of

00:05:43.840 job we see this council in eternity and the heavens and the sons of god are before him and

00:05:53.380 in that reference the sons of god it's angels and it says satan was among them and god looks at

00:05:59.460 satan he says to him from where have you come satan says from going to and fro over the earth

00:06:05.760 and god says have you considered my servant job that there is none like him in all the earth

00:06:11.640 righteous. He's a good man. And Satan says, well, he's good because you've blessed him.

00:06:18.380 And God says, well, then you can take away his blessing. And I'm telling you right now that he's

00:06:24.820 still going to serve me because it's not just tit for tat. It's not just quid pro quo. Job is

00:06:33.200 actually righteous. He blesses me, honors me, worships me because I'm God, not just because

00:06:39.300 I'm the one who gives him stuff and God then outlines for Satan the boundaries of what he's

00:06:49.160 able to do he says you can do this you can do that but you cannot touch his flesh you can bring

00:06:55.040 no harm to him and so then Satan goes and he ensures that all of his camel and livestock and

00:07:00.600 even Job's own children are destroyed but Job's body is not harmed then we see the scene reconvene

00:07:08.880 in heaven where satan comes before job or before god again and says well yeah he's still worshiping

00:07:16.000 you he's still loyal to you even though these things happen but skin for skin a man will give

00:07:22.400 everything he has for his flesh for his body his life so then god he changes the terms he now moves

00:07:30.820 the boundaries of what satan is allowed to do he says now you can actually affect his flesh not

00:07:35.960 just his livelihood, not just what he owns, his possessions, and not just other people's flesh

00:07:41.660 that he has relationship with, intimate relationship like his children. But now you can

00:07:46.360 touch Job's body, his own body, but you cannot take his life. And God etches out that boundary

00:07:54.100 for Satan. And Satan goes and does that. And the point is this, the point is you see three different

00:07:59.300 levels of agency. You see God ultimately at the top, sovereign over everything, saying this is

00:08:05.040 what you can do and this is what you can't. You see Satan then with his will as a creature

00:08:10.220 saying, well, okay, I'm going to take Job's camels then and I'm going to take this and I'm

00:08:14.680 going to take his children. But then you see another agency, the Chaldeans. I believe it's

00:08:20.400 the camels. Maybe it's the sheep. I can't remember. But one of the animals that Job

00:08:27.680 owned, Satan fills the hearts of men. He uses men to steal that resource away from Job. So look,

00:08:36.820 there's three levels of agency there. There's God saying, these are the ultimate boundaries

00:08:41.320 of what you can do, what you can take and what you can't. God at the top. Then there's Satan,

00:08:47.560 the choices that he's making, his agency, what he's doing. Then there's the Chaldeans on the

00:08:53.220 human level what they're doing and stealing from job three different levels of agency the chaldeans

00:08:58.980 are morally responsible for the choice that they made and stealing from job and killing his servants

00:09:03.840 satan is morally responsible for his rebellion against god and god is ultimately meticulously

00:09:11.840 sovereign over all of it as the only autonomous being in the universe as creator rather than

00:09:17.860 creature all these things are simultaneously true and for those who say well i feel like that's a

00:09:23.140 a paradox or I feel like that's an apparent contradiction. Well, the Bible clearly affirms

00:09:30.760 both. How it's fleshed out in theological terms, philosophical terms is very complex. I admit

00:09:37.920 it's difficult to understand God being sovereign over all and human beings being morally responsible

00:09:44.540 for the choices they make simultaneously. I'm not sitting here saying, oh, this is easy. It's not

00:09:50.180 easy, but it's true. The Bible affirms both. So Asbury revival, my point is arguing, making an

00:09:57.880 argument from the lesser to the greater. Well, I mean, God has used, or from the greater to the

00:10:03.660 lesser, God has used horrible sin like murder, the Chaldeans murdering people and stealing all

00:10:11.560 of Job's livelihood. God has used that, been sovereign over that and brought about good.

00:10:18.640 God used the evil of Joseph's brothers selling him into slavery in Egypt for good.

00:10:24.460 Joseph goes on and says, not just what you meant for evil, God meant for good, but he

00:10:28.200 goes further and says to bring about salvation, to bring about salvation for a great many

00:10:34.380 people.

00:10:34.720 Because remember, Joseph is sold into slavery in Egypt, but then God exalts Joseph sovereignly

00:10:41.160 to the right hand of Pharaoh as viceroy of Egypt, second only to Pharaoh himself because

00:10:46.580 God gives Pharaoh dreams of what's going to happen, not only in Egypt, but in the known

00:10:51.280 world at that time in regards to seven years of plenty and then seven years of famine.

00:10:57.880 And then he gives Joseph the ability to interpret the dream, what's going to take place and

00:11:03.040 endows Joseph with wisdom in how to prepare so that the whole world, Egypt, everybody,

00:11:10.000 the nation of Israel, which is just really a large family at this point, Jacob and his

00:11:14.620 12 sons and the grandchildren, 72 persons in all, they would have starved. Everyone would have died.

00:11:21.640 They were saved through Joseph and Joseph being strategically positioned in Egypt. And how did

00:11:29.280 he get there? The sin of his brothers, their betrayal. So God used that. And the best example,

00:11:38.120 the argument from the greater to the lesser, this would be from the greatest to the lesser,

00:11:42.960 the greatest example is the sin against jesus i mean that's what the book of acts says i believe

00:11:50.020 it's chapter two peter mentions it at pentecost but then also acts chapter four for for certain

00:11:55.600 what we find in the scripture and regarding what happened with jesus his wrongful execution

00:12:01.600 being crucified as it says that it says that um all over there were gathered together both jews

00:12:07.300 and Gentiles and Pontius Pilate to do to Jesus, that is to crucify him, whatever your hand and

00:12:17.800 your plan had determined to take place. So what's being said is these people were gathered together

00:12:25.280 to do wicked things, evil things to Jesus, namely wrongfully putting him to death,

00:12:31.280 bearing false witnesses, producing false testimonies against Jesus, holding a mock trial

00:12:37.240 in the middle of the night, handing him over to Pontius Pilate, calling for his execution,

00:12:42.860 crucifixion, even though he did not deserve that form of death. All these different things,

00:12:47.960 all these evils, lies, wickednesses, and ultimately the murder of a truly innocent man,

00:12:54.580 all these things were sin. Sin done towards the only truly innocent person who ever

00:13:00.000 walked the face of the earth, the righteous one, the God-man, Christ Jesus himself.

00:13:04.480 The greatest injustice that has ever happened in human history was the crucifixion of Christ.

00:13:11.020 And the Bible says that all that happened because people made choices that they're really

00:13:16.640 responsible for and because God's hand and plan predetermined for it to come about, predestined

00:13:24.860 it to take place.

00:13:27.400 And out of the wickedness done to Christ, we have spiritual salvation for the world.

00:13:34.480 out of the wickedness done to joseph as a type of christ you had physical salvation for the world

00:13:41.280 so what good can come out of asbury well my prayer is um salvation that salvation would

00:13:51.400 come out of it but there's a difference in saying that salvation is happening at asbury

00:13:56.180 because the gospel is being faithfully preached versus salvation retroactively later on in the

00:14:02.940 province of God coming about out of the mishaps and negligence and foolishness at Asbury. So I

00:14:11.620 think what good can come out of it? I would say a lot of good, so much good in fact, the greatest

00:14:16.960 good could come out of it, the good of thousands of people coming to saving faith in Jesus Christ.

00:14:24.240 You know how many people have come to faith in Jesus Christ through Benny Hinn?

00:14:27.640 but not through his faithfulness, but through his faithlessness, what he meant for evil.

00:14:35.700 God has used Benny Hinn and then used other faithful individuals like Justin Peters and

00:14:41.080 John MacArthur and all these different things to shed light on that. So Benny Hinn attracts a bunch

00:14:45.280 of people and then in God's providence and mercy, those people, it's like fish in a barrel. They're

00:14:50.260 attracted to Benny Hinn in the prosperity gospel. But then out of that, guys like Benny Hinn's own

00:14:55.980 nephew, Kosti Hinn, preached the true gospel and people's eyes are opened by grace alone,

00:15:02.540 regeneration by the Holy Spirit and people pour into the kingdom. So what good could come out of

00:15:08.920 it? Immense good. But there's a distinction in God meaning something for good as man means

00:15:18.180 something for evil versus God meaning something for good and using faithful men who also mean it

00:15:25.320 for good. There's a difference in God bringing about good despite you versus God bringing about

00:15:31.960 good through you. I'll say that again. There is a difference in the sovereignty of God and the way

00:15:37.800 he works in the world, God bringing about good despite you versus God bringing about good

00:15:44.100 through you. I think that God is and will bring about great good despite Asbury. But so far,

00:15:55.040 I cannot with any shred of confidence say that he is bringing about great good, true good,

00:16:00.140 according to the Bible's definition of good, eternal good, salvific good through Asbury.

00:16:06.240 I cannot make that argument. Can I be frank with you for just a second right here at the end?

00:16:11.100 Look, some of you guys, you're financially supporting this ministry, and from the bottom

00:16:15.300 of my heart, I say thank you.

00:16:17.560 I cannot thank you enough.

00:16:20.140 However, some of you, you just, you can't afford it.

00:16:23.860 In fact, some of you, you shouldn't afford it.

00:16:26.960 Let's be honest.

00:16:28.260 I mean, we're living in Joe Biden's ridiculous economy.

00:16:31.760 Our nation and our totalitarian political elites lost their minds over the last three

00:16:39.400 years due to COVID. We have written checks that we simply cannot cash. It doesn't matter if people

00:16:46.820 change the definition of a recession. We are living in a recession right now regardless.

00:16:53.740 Some of you are struggling to afford a carton of eggs at the grocery store. You cannot support

00:17:00.040 financially this ministry at this time, nor should you, but you could still help us tremendously.

00:17:06.700 I am asking you, please, if you're willing to do so, take one minute of your time.

00:17:13.280 Leave us a five-star review on your favorite podcast platform, iTunes, Spotify, whatever

00:17:19.420 that might be.

00:17:20.680 This is the way the system works.

00:17:22.760 We want to be innocent as doves, but shrewd as vipers.

00:17:26.940 We need to be strategic.

00:17:28.800 You leave us a five-star review, and our podcast shows up for more people.

00:17:33.320 and the Word of God and courageous theology applied in practical ways to every realm of life

00:17:40.940 gets out there. Help us get it out there. Thanks for tuning in.

The NXR Podcast - February 25, 2023

QUESTIONS - Can Anything Good Come From Asbury？

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript