The NXR Podcast - June 03, 2022


QUESTIONS - Can Women Ask Pastors Questions, Or Only Their Husbands？


Episode Stats


Length

10 minutes

Words per minute

185.45

Word count

1,932

Sentence count

97

Harmful content

Misogyny

14

sentences flagged

Toxicity

6

sentences flagged

Hate speech

32

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

In this episode, Beth and Jenna discuss the role of women in the home and the church. They discuss why women should not be outspoken in the church and why men should be the ones to teach and lead. They also discuss the importance of a male diaconate and why women shouldn't be preaching on the Lord's Day.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 Hey guys, real quick before we get started, I have a small request.
00:00:03.440 If you've been blessed by our content and you like this show,
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00:00:12.880 to ensure that this content gets out to as many people as possible.
00:00:17.540 Thanks.
00:00:21.840 This is from With Love Jillian.
00:00:24.520 How far should we apply Paul's instructions that women should ask their husbands at home
00:00:29.540 any theological questions they have 0.66
00:00:32.520 and not be outspoken in the church.
00:00:34.680 Great question.
00:00:35.380 Let's read it one more time.
00:00:36.880 This is from With Love Jillian.
00:00:39.220 How far should we apply Paul's instructions
00:00:41.580 that women should ask their husbands at home
00:00:44.180 any theological questions they have
00:00:46.940 and not be outspoken in the church?
00:00:49.240 All right, great question.
00:00:50.200 So this comes from 1 Corinthians 14,
00:00:52.380 comes from a lot of passages.
00:00:54.240 We see the principle at play.
00:00:55.740 So 1 Timothy 2, verses 9 through 15, 1.00
00:00:59.540 right um i do not um permit a woman to have any authority to teach or exercise any authority over 1.00
00:01:05.900 a man she must be silent um you know and so paul goes into that she needs to be in submission
00:01:12.120 and then he makes a he pulls on the created order to uh to bind his argument so it's not cultural
00:01:17.600 he doesn't say because you know in our particular culture you know we want to be winsome and and
00:01:23.080 people want to they'd see this as as radically feminist and now that's but paul doesn't argue
00:01:27.980 like Tim Keller. So he argues biblically. And so he roots it not in some winsome cultural argument
00:01:33.920 that would come and go and be subject to change, but he roots it in a timeless, unchanging principle
00:01:39.420 before sin ever even entered the world, namely the created order, right? Adam was formed first,
00:01:44.240 then Eve. Adam was made from the dust of the ground, but Eve was made from Adam and for Adam
00:01:50.240 as his helpmate. So he uses that argumentation to talk about why men should lead, they should have
00:01:56.520 authority and men should teach and a woman should not, right? And he's making that argument with the 1.00
00:02:02.080 church, but I do think that there's a broader principle in society, even outside of the home
00:02:06.260 and the church, right? I'm not merely complementarian. I am patriarchal. I think
00:02:10.260 that that's right. I think that that's biblical. I think it makes no sense to say men should be the
00:02:14.500 head of their households and wives should submit to their husbands as the church submits to Christ
00:02:18.500 and men should lead the church as elders. And I would argue also for a male diaconate 0.61
00:02:23.600 and women should not function as elders 0.99
00:02:25.740 and they should not be preaching on the Lord's day. 1.00
00:02:28.720 And so in the church and the home,
00:02:30.360 it is led by biblically qualified men. 1.00
00:02:33.480 Women are not leading. 0.98
00:02:34.580 They're not in positions of authority over men. 1.00
00:02:36.540 But then when we come into society,
00:02:39.300 whether it be the political realm or the cultural realm
00:02:41.740 or whatever, any other institution, academia,
00:02:45.220 something outside of the home of the church,
00:02:46.680 all of a sudden we flip that order on its head.
00:02:49.560 That just, that makes no sense. 0.89
00:02:51.300 If men are leading households, 0.62
00:02:53.120 if households, right? 0.83
00:02:54.360 Because what is a society?
00:02:55.460 Think about that.
00:02:56.140 What is a society but a gathering of households?
00:03:00.180 Societies are made up by households.
00:03:02.860 And you might say, well, not everybody's a part of a household.
00:03:04.760 Not everybody's married. 0.73
00:03:05.820 They're single women. 1.00
00:03:06.740 Great. 1.00
00:03:07.060 They're under their father then. 0.55
00:03:08.420 There's no woman who is not underneath the headship of a man, whether it be her father 0.86
00:03:13.740 or whether it be her husband, if she's a Christian woman, whether it be her male elders in the
00:03:18.420 church.
00:03:18.680 So, so women, God has set up his created order in such a way that men lead, men lead. 0.77
00:03:26.220 And so to, to advocate that men should lead in the church and they should lead in the 0.96
00:03:29.340 home, but, but then when we get away from the church in the home, then we can flip God's
00:03:33.260 created order on its head is inconsistent. 0.98
00:03:36.120 And I believe hypocritical. 0.98
00:03:38.240 All right. 0.93
00:03:38.520 So women asking questions of their husbands at home, first Timothy chapter two, verse
00:03:43.660 nine through 15 talks about men are the ones who are teaching the church.
00:03:47.600 but 1 Corinthians chapter 14 explicitly says
00:03:50.880 that in church, women should be silent.
00:03:53.780 In fact, the apostle Paul says, 0.80
00:03:55.500 it is shameful for a woman to speak in church. 1.00
00:03:59.440 Shameful for a woman to speak in church.
00:04:01.560 And he specifically says, if a woman has questions, 1.00
00:04:03.820 she should ask her husband at home.
00:04:06.160 Now, the first thing that I think Paul's addressing is this.
00:04:09.700 He is addressing outbursts
00:04:12.280 in the Lord's day gathering of the saints.
00:04:15.320 Women should not be objecting or interrupting, and no one for that matter, but especially
00:04:22.640 women should not be objecting or interrupting as a pastor is teaching, as the saints are
00:04:28.180 gathered on the Lord's day for the administering of the ordinary means of grace, publicly preaching
00:04:33.360 the word, publicly praying the word, publicly singing the word with psalms, hymns, and
00:04:37.800 spiritual songs, and publicly seeing the word, S-E-E-I-N-G, in the only two images that
00:04:43.600 the Lord has instituted, namely baptism and the Lord's Supper. These are the ordinary means of
00:04:49.120 grace. The church is committed, the gathered saints, they're committed to gather together,
00:04:53.660 to ecclesia, to assemble together on the Lord's day, the Christian Sabbath, the first day of the
00:04:59.400 week, the day that Christ rose from the dead for the administering of the ordinary means of grace.
00:05:04.640 And this is a time of order. And this is what Paul's talking about in 1 Corinthians 14, not just
00:05:09.740 in regards to women, but in regards to the gifts of the sign gifts, which I believe has ceased,
00:05:14.800 but in his day, in the church at Corinth, the sign gifts of prophecy and tongues. Paul's whole
00:05:20.000 argument, saying that prophecy is superior to tongues, is because Paul wants order, and he
00:05:26.540 wants clarity. He wants order and clarity. He wants whoever is speaking to do so intelligibly.
00:05:32.660 And he talks about, even with prophecy, he says, at most, two or three should prophesy. And he's
00:05:37.220 not saying two or three prophesy at the same time that is an idiotic reading of the text he does not 0.79
00:05:43.560 say that because he specifically says if to one is given a revelation the one who is currently 0.90
00:05:48.260 speaking should should stop speaking so the one who's just received a revelation from the lord
00:05:53.880 a prophetic word can begin speaking meaning what that the two should not speak simultaneously
00:05:58.740 one is speaking they stop so that the other can speak so that only one person speaks at a time
00:06:04.220 Why? So that it is intelligible, so that it is clear, so that it is done in order. And then he
00:06:10.960 says two or three should prophesy. And we know he's not talking about simultaneously because
00:06:15.560 he's already addressed that. So what he's talking about by way of implication is that two or three
00:06:20.860 should prophesy at most throughout an entire gathering, throughout a service where the church
00:06:26.800 is gathered together. Two or three men, because he later talks about women, how it's shameful for a
00:06:33.180 woman to speak in church. So what we can assume is this, biblically qualified men should speak in
00:06:38.360 church one at a time and only two or three at most so that everything can be done with clarity 0.75
00:06:44.060 and order. God is a God of order. So the first thing that Paul's saying when he says it's shameful
00:06:50.780 for a woman to speak at church and he encourages and commands women to ask their husbands if they
00:06:57.260 have any questions at home, is he is setting up barriers against interruptions in the Lord's Day
00:07:03.860 gathering. Do not object and do not interrupt. And no one should be doing that because of what
00:07:09.020 Paul says earlier about how one should speak at a time. No one objects, no one interrupts,
00:07:13.720 but especially women. It is especially shameful for a woman who has not been given the assignment 1.00
00:07:20.500 and the ministry by God to lead or to exercise authority over men or to teach men. Again,
00:07:26.340 and that's cross-referencing back
00:07:27.540 to 1 Timothy chapter two,
00:07:29.160 it is especially shameful, therefore, 1.00
00:07:30.860 for a woman to interrupt and to speak in church. 1.00
00:07:35.340 All right, now, asking their husbands at home, 0.98
00:07:37.900 the way that I'm answering the question is this. 0.90
00:07:39.480 I think that it's appropriate for a woman
00:07:41.680 to ask a question of her pastor,
00:07:44.620 to ask a question of her male pastor,
00:07:46.780 who is not her husband,
00:07:49.060 outside of the Lord's Day gathering.
00:07:51.420 Not interrupting, not objecting,
00:07:53.620 not in the middle of a service,
00:07:55.280 not causing a scene, not an outburst, but to reach out with her husband's permission,
00:08:01.920 not against her husband, not being divisive, not undercutting his authority, but for her to
00:08:06.920 reach out with her husband to their pastor and to ask him a question. Now, here's the deal though.
00:08:12.920 This should never be used to turn against her husband. So the only reason that a woman should 1.00
00:08:17.100 really be doing this is when she has already asked her husband and he doesn't know the answer. 0.68
00:08:22.360 And here's the beauty.
00:08:23.800 At that point, it becomes his question.
00:08:26.780 It's not exclusively her question anymore.
00:08:29.500 It's now his question.
00:08:31.080 And if the man is a godly husband,
00:08:33.300 Doug Wilson says it like this.
00:08:34.540 He says, not every man will be a professional theologian,
00:08:37.560 but every man has the obligation
00:08:39.660 of being a residential theologian, a resident theologian.
00:08:44.440 Not a professional, not all men
00:08:46.380 will be professional theologians,
00:08:48.200 meaning some men will be more theologically inclined
00:08:50.660 than others.
00:08:51.120 not all men will be professional theologians, but every man should be a resident theologian,
00:08:56.420 meaning he is the pastor of his home. He is the theologian of his family, which means his wife
00:09:04.120 and his children, when they have theological questions, they should go to him and they should
00:09:07.640 know this. My husband, my dad, he will either have the answer or he will be committed diligently
00:09:16.280 to finding the answer.
00:09:18.600 He'll either have the answer
00:09:20.000 or he'll find the answer. 1.00
00:09:22.320 So I think that women should certainly not 1.00
00:09:25.100 have an outburst and interrupt
00:09:27.080 in the Lord's Day gathering.
00:09:28.600 But even beyond that, 1.00
00:09:30.040 I think that women should ask their husbands at home 0.64
00:09:33.180 before emailing their pastors. 1.00
00:09:35.580 And their husband will either be able
00:09:37.960 to answer the question
00:09:39.200 or if he can't,
00:09:41.060 it now becomes his question.
00:09:42.900 It's not just her question anymore.
00:09:44.860 It is now also his question, and he can lead the way in approaching one of the pastors
00:09:51.180 in getting the answer to this question, or he can do some research at home.
00:09:55.600 He may not even need to approach the pastors.
00:09:57.760 He may be able just to, through personal study, find the answer to this question to be able
00:10:03.200 to answer it for his wife.
00:10:05.160 That's how I would answer your question.
00:10:06.840 Jillian, thanks for writing in.
00:10:08.560 Thanks so much for listening.
00:10:09.520 But real quick, before you go, do us a small favor, take a moment, and leave us a five
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