The NXR Podcast - June 03, 2022


QUESTIONS - Can Women Ask Pastors Questions, Or Only Their Husbands？

Topics
order in church
Hosted by
Joel Webbon Harrison Smith Antonio Griffith Dale Partridge Wewsley Todd Calvin Robinson
Mentioned
Paul Adam Jillian Doug Wilson Tim Keller
DAILY TRUTH - The Unstoppable Power of the Grace of God DAILY TRUTH - What Do You Do With Your Guilt？

Episode Stats


Length

10 minutes

Words per minute

185.45

Word count

1,932

Sentence count

106

Harmful content

Misogyny

14

sentences flagged

Toxicity

6

sentences flagged

Hate speech

32

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

In this episode, Beth and Jenna discuss the role of women in the home and the church. They discuss why women should not be outspoken in the church and why men should be the ones to teach and lead. They also discuss the importance of a male diaconate and why women shouldn't be preaching on the Lord's Day.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:00 Hey guys, real quick before we get started, I have a small request.
00:00:03 If you've been blessed by our content and you like this show,
00:00:06 would you take just a brief moment and leave us a five-star review?
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00:00:12 to ensure that this content gets out to as many people as possible.
00:00:17 Thanks.
00:00:21 This is from With Love Jillian.
00:00:24 How far should we apply Paul's instructions that women should ask their husbands at home
00:00:29 any theological questions they have 0.66
00:00:32 and not be outspoken in the church.
00:00:34 Great question.
00:00:35 Let's read it one more time.
00:00:36 This is from With Love Jillian.
00:00:39 How far should we apply Paul's instructions
00:00:41 that women should ask their husbands at home
00:00:44 any theological questions they have
00:00:46 and not be outspoken in the church?
00:00:49 All right, great question.
00:00:50 So this comes from 1 Corinthians 14,
00:00:52 comes from a lot of passages.
00:00:54 We see the principle at play.
00:00:55 So 1 Timothy 2, verses 9 through 15, 1.00
00:00:59 right um i do not um permit a woman to have any authority to teach or exercise any authority over 1.00
00:01:05 a man she must be silent um you know and so paul goes into that she needs to be in submission
00:01:12 and then he makes a he pulls on the created order to uh to bind his argument so it's not cultural
00:01:17 he doesn't say because you know in our particular culture you know we want to be winsome and and
00:01:23 people want to they'd see this as as radically feminist and now that's but paul doesn't argue
00:01:27 like Tim Keller. So he argues biblically. And so he roots it not in some winsome cultural argument
00:01:33 that would come and go and be subject to change, but he roots it in a timeless, unchanging principle
00:01:39 before sin ever even entered the world, namely the created order, right? Adam was formed first,
00:01:44 then Eve. Adam was made from the dust of the ground, but Eve was made from Adam and for Adam
00:01:50 as his helpmate. So he uses that argumentation to talk about why men should lead, they should have
00:01:56 authority and men should teach and a woman should not, right? And he's making that argument with the 1.00
00:02:02 church, but I do think that there's a broader principle in society, even outside of the home
00:02:06 and the church, right? I'm not merely complementarian. I am patriarchal. I think
00:02:10 that that's right. I think that that's biblical. I think it makes no sense to say men should be the
00:02:14 head of their households and wives should submit to their husbands as the church submits to Christ
00:02:18 and men should lead the church as elders. And I would argue also for a male diaconate 0.61
00:02:23 and women should not function as elders 0.99
00:02:25 and they should not be preaching on the Lord's day. 1.00
00:02:28 And so in the church and the home,
00:02:30 it is led by biblically qualified men. 1.00
00:02:33 Women are not leading. 0.98
00:02:34 They're not in positions of authority over men. 1.00
00:02:36 But then when we come into society,
00:02:39 whether it be the political realm or the cultural realm
00:02:41 or whatever, any other institution, academia,
00:02:45 something outside of the home of the church,
00:02:46 all of a sudden we flip that order on its head.
00:02:49 That just, that makes no sense. 0.89
00:02:51 If men are leading households, 0.62
00:02:53 if households, right? 0.83
00:02:54 Because what is a society?
00:02:55 Think about that.
00:02:56 What is a society but a gathering of households?
00:03:00 Societies are made up by households.
00:03:02 And you might say, well, not everybody's a part of a household.
00:03:04 Not everybody's married. 0.73
00:03:05 They're single women. 1.00
00:03:06 Great. 1.00
00:03:07 They're under their father then. 0.55
00:03:08 There's no woman who is not underneath the headship of a man, whether it be her father 0.86
00:03:13 or whether it be her husband, if she's a Christian woman, whether it be her male elders in the
00:03:18 church.
00:03:18 So, so women, God has set up his created order in such a way that men lead, men lead. 0.77
00:03:26 And so to, to advocate that men should lead in the church and they should lead in the 0.96
00:03:29 home, but, but then when we get away from the church in the home, then we can flip God's
00:03:33 created order on its head is inconsistent. 0.98
00:03:36 And I believe hypocritical. 0.98
00:03:38 All right. 0.93
00:03:38 So women asking questions of their husbands at home, first Timothy chapter two, verse
00:03:43 nine through 15 talks about men are the ones who are teaching the church.
00:03:47 but 1 Corinthians chapter 14 explicitly says
00:03:50 that in church, women should be silent.
00:03:53 In fact, the apostle Paul says, 0.80
00:03:55 it is shameful for a woman to speak in church. 1.00
00:03:59 Shameful for a woman to speak in church.
00:04:01 And he specifically says, if a woman has questions, 1.00
00:04:03 she should ask her husband at home.
00:04:06 Now, the first thing that I think Paul's addressing is this.
00:04:09 He is addressing outbursts
00:04:12 in the Lord's day gathering of the saints.
00:04:15 Women should not be objecting or interrupting, and no one for that matter, but especially
00:04:22 women should not be objecting or interrupting as a pastor is teaching, as the saints are
00:04:28 gathered on the Lord's day for the administering of the ordinary means of grace, publicly preaching
00:04:33 the word, publicly praying the word, publicly singing the word with psalms, hymns, and
00:04:37 spiritual songs, and publicly seeing the word, S-E-E-I-N-G, in the only two images that
00:04:43 the Lord has instituted, namely baptism and the Lord's Supper. These are the ordinary means of
00:04:49 grace. The church is committed, the gathered saints, they're committed to gather together,
00:04:53 to ecclesia, to assemble together on the Lord's day, the Christian Sabbath, the first day of the
00:04:59 week, the day that Christ rose from the dead for the administering of the ordinary means of grace.
00:05:04 And this is a time of order. And this is what Paul's talking about in 1 Corinthians 14, not just
00:05:09 in regards to women, but in regards to the gifts of the sign gifts, which I believe has ceased,
00:05:14 but in his day, in the church at Corinth, the sign gifts of prophecy and tongues. Paul's whole
00:05:20 argument, saying that prophecy is superior to tongues, is because Paul wants order, and he
00:05:26 wants clarity. He wants order and clarity. He wants whoever is speaking to do so intelligibly.
00:05:32 And he talks about, even with prophecy, he says, at most, two or three should prophesy. And he's
00:05:37 not saying two or three prophesy at the same time that is an idiotic reading of the text he does not 0.79
00:05:43 say that because he specifically says if to one is given a revelation the one who is currently 0.90
00:05:48 speaking should should stop speaking so the one who's just received a revelation from the lord
00:05:53 a prophetic word can begin speaking meaning what that the two should not speak simultaneously
00:05:58 one is speaking they stop so that the other can speak so that only one person speaks at a time
00:06:04 Why? So that it is intelligible, so that it is clear, so that it is done in order. And then he
00:06:10 says two or three should prophesy. And we know he's not talking about simultaneously because
00:06:15 he's already addressed that. So what he's talking about by way of implication is that two or three
00:06:20 should prophesy at most throughout an entire gathering, throughout a service where the church
00:06:26 is gathered together. Two or three men, because he later talks about women, how it's shameful for a
00:06:33 woman to speak in church. So what we can assume is this, biblically qualified men should speak in
00:06:38 church one at a time and only two or three at most so that everything can be done with clarity 0.75
00:06:44 and order. God is a God of order. So the first thing that Paul's saying when he says it's shameful
00:06:50 for a woman to speak at church and he encourages and commands women to ask their husbands if they
00:06:57 have any questions at home, is he is setting up barriers against interruptions in the Lord's Day
00:07:03 gathering. Do not object and do not interrupt. And no one should be doing that because of what
00:07:09 Paul says earlier about how one should speak at a time. No one objects, no one interrupts,
00:07:13 but especially women. It is especially shameful for a woman who has not been given the assignment 1.00
00:07:20 and the ministry by God to lead or to exercise authority over men or to teach men. Again,
00:07:26 and that's cross-referencing back
00:07:27 to 1 Timothy chapter two,
00:07:29 it is especially shameful, therefore, 1.00
00:07:30 for a woman to interrupt and to speak in church. 1.00
00:07:35 All right, now, asking their husbands at home, 0.98
00:07:37 the way that I'm answering the question is this. 0.90
00:07:39 I think that it's appropriate for a woman
00:07:41 to ask a question of her pastor,
00:07:44 to ask a question of her male pastor,
00:07:46 who is not her husband,
00:07:49 outside of the Lord's Day gathering.
00:07:51 Not interrupting, not objecting,
00:07:53 not in the middle of a service,
00:07:55 not causing a scene, not an outburst, but to reach out with her husband's permission,
00:08:01 not against her husband, not being divisive, not undercutting his authority, but for her to
00:08:06 reach out with her husband to their pastor and to ask him a question. Now, here's the deal though.
00:08:12 This should never be used to turn against her husband. So the only reason that a woman should 1.00
00:08:17 really be doing this is when she has already asked her husband and he doesn't know the answer. 0.68
00:08:22 And here's the beauty.
00:08:23 At that point, it becomes his question.
00:08:26 It's not exclusively her question anymore.
00:08:29 It's now his question.
00:08:31 And if the man is a godly husband,
00:08:33 Doug Wilson says it like this.
00:08:34 He says, not every man will be a professional theologian,
00:08:37 but every man has the obligation
00:08:39 of being a residential theologian, a resident theologian.
00:08:44 Not a professional, not all men
00:08:46 will be professional theologians,
00:08:48 meaning some men will be more theologically inclined
00:08:50 than others.
00:08:51 not all men will be professional theologians, but every man should be a resident theologian,
00:08:56 meaning he is the pastor of his home. He is the theologian of his family, which means his wife
00:09:04 and his children, when they have theological questions, they should go to him and they should
00:09:07 know this. My husband, my dad, he will either have the answer or he will be committed diligently
00:09:16 to finding the answer.
00:09:18 He'll either have the answer
00:09:20 or he'll find the answer. 1.00
00:09:22 So I think that women should certainly not 1.00
00:09:25 have an outburst and interrupt
00:09:27 in the Lord's Day gathering.
00:09:28 But even beyond that, 1.00
00:09:30 I think that women should ask their husbands at home 0.64
00:09:33 before emailing their pastors. 1.00
00:09:35 And their husband will either be able
00:09:37 to answer the question
00:09:39 or if he can't,
00:09:41 it now becomes his question.
00:09:42 It's not just her question anymore.
00:09:44 It is now also his question, and he can lead the way in approaching one of the pastors
00:09:51 in getting the answer to this question, or he can do some research at home.
00:09:55 He may not even need to approach the pastors.
00:09:57 He may be able just to, through personal study, find the answer to this question to be able
00:10:03 to answer it for his wife.
00:10:05 That's how I would answer your question.
00:10:06 Jillian, thanks for writing in.
00:10:08 Thanks so much for listening.
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