The NXR Podcast - QUESTIONS - Does Theonomy Allow For Other Religions In Society？

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00:00:21.060 Mawson says this, in a perfect theonomic society, amen. I like the beginning of this.

00:00:26.380 would a mosque be allowed to function in that society or would it be required to worship

00:00:32.720 the biblical God alone? Great question. In a perfect theonomic society that will come

00:00:39.260 incrementally over time, I'm not an incrementalist when it comes to abortion, just for the record.

00:00:45.760 When I say incrementally, I don't mean by putting forward unjust, unbiblical laws that compromise

00:00:50.680 the scripture, but incrementally in terms of the mustard seed gradually fills the whole,

00:00:58.420 you know, grows into a tree and fills the whole earth. The leaven gradually works through the

00:01:02.120 whole batch of dough. So like with abortion, for instance, guys like Jeff Durbin, I would agree

00:01:08.120 with him, are incrementalist, not in terms of getting gradually more biblical laws, which

00:01:14.740 requires you to, um, at first submit unjust laws. That's can't do that as a Christian. That's, 0.85

00:01:20.840 that's sinful. Um, but it is incremental in the sense that Roe right now, very likely going to

00:01:26.240 be overturned incrementally abolish abortion in all 50 States incrementally being one state at

00:01:31.700 a time, just laws always being put forward, but let's, let's do it in Louisiana. Let's do it in 0.61

00:01:37.160 Texas. Let's do it in Oklahoma. And eventually, um, New York and California will bow the knee 0.88

00:01:41.200 to Jesus and stop murdering babies. So really, we were talking about Christodom. I think Christodom

00:01:47.180 is good. That is my life's mission. And that involves planting churches, involves preaching

00:01:53.320 the gospel, baptizing, all these things. But I would say the big headliner is this. I want to

00:01:59.960 re-usher in Christodom 2.0. And the same way that we look back on the founding of our nation,

00:02:05.020 America, and we say, all right, well, slavery wasn't good. But I think it's important that

00:02:09.940 We don't try to rewrite our history and lie like the 1619 project, but rather we say,

00:02:14.680 okay, slavery is there, but that's a bug, not a feature.

00:02:19.360 And slavery was eventually abolished because the founding of our nation was good and we

00:02:24.260 eventually lived up to the ideals in our constitution.

00:02:26.900 Likewise, looking at 2000 years of church history, looking at guys like Constantine,

00:02:31.340 looking at Christodom, and when it was in effect, or at least partially successful before and

00:02:36.880 saying, well, America, you know, had slavery and Christodom had the Spanish Crusades, right? So,

00:02:42.720 I would say, well, the Spanish Crusades is like slavery was to America. The Spanish Crusades are

00:02:47.380 to Christodom. The Spanish Crusades are not a feature, but a bug. And if Christodom had been 0.99

00:02:52.400 more successful eventually over time, as they lived more consistently with Christodom and the

00:02:58.520 ideals of scripture, they would have stopped doing crusades, okay? So, that being said, I want to

00:03:04.940 reestablish Christodom. I want to play my tiny little part, and it's probably going to take a

00:03:08.480 very long time, and it's not going to happen as much as I want it to happen in my lifetime, but

00:03:13.440 generationally, I, along with other faithful Christians, want to see Christodom reestablished.

00:03:20.320 So, I don't think, well, Christodom had the Spanish Crusade, so it's bad. No, I think the solution is

00:03:24.420 let's do Christodom 2.0, and let's just do it better. And it's probably going to take us a few

00:03:30.000 tries. I think it could be a few thousand years before Jesus returns. And so we may be on Christodom,

00:03:35.300 you know, 7.0 by the time that we finally really are getting it right. And that mustard seed is

00:03:41.140 grown into a tree that's spreading its wings over the whole earth. And justice is rolling down like

00:03:45.660 waters, you know, like Amos says, and the leaven has really, a good leaven has worked through the

00:03:50.740 whole batch of dough. So that could take time. So in a perfect theonomic society, that picture

00:03:55.140 that I'm painting, Christodom 7.0, whenever we get it right, what will it look like, right?

00:03:59.600 Basically, that's what you're asking is, as a post-millennial, theonomic, patriarchal,

00:04:05.880 you know, Christendom-loving Christian, Pastor Joel, what do you think societies and nations

00:04:12.220 will look like in terms of their laws about expressions of other religions right before

00:04:17.220 the return of Christ?

00:04:18.740 A perfect theonomic, you know, right before the return of Christ. 0.99

00:04:22.020 For instance, will there be any mosque? 1.00

00:04:24.740 My answer, no. 0.98

00:04:27.340 No way. 0.99

00:04:28.000 the mosques are gone and again i'm not a universalist that's a heresy so so as a 0.82

00:04:34.780 post-millennial and as someone who wants to restore christendom and as somebody who is theonomic and 0.92

00:04:39.700 i would say a general equity theonomy because there are different there's a spectrum of theonomy

00:04:43.960 i would say general equity theonomist holding the positions that i do right before the return

00:04:50.140 of christ i believe at that time a majority of people living on earth at that time will be saved

00:04:56.460 But even then, and that would be the best case scenario, right?

00:05:00.080 When things are at their best, right before the return of Christ.

00:05:02.480 But even then, it won't be that each and every individual is regenerate. 0.99

00:05:06.760 But all the nations will be Christianized. 0.77

00:05:09.380 Not meaning that every individual in every nation is a Christian, but Christianized, 0.98

00:05:14.520 meaning all the nations will be so drenched and so under the influence of the Christian 0.97

00:05:20.280 worldview and Christian teaching, Christian influence, that they will have Christian

00:05:25.860 laws and a Christian sense of justice, which is actual justice, true biblical justice. And in that

00:05:33.120 kind of environment, blasphemy will not be permitted. And the last thing I'll say on this,

00:05:40.460 and that's what it would be, worshiping of false gods and false religions would be, 0.68

00:05:44.140 it would be breaking the first commandment. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

00:05:48.100 it would be a breach of the third commandment. It's vain worship. It's a breach of all these

00:05:57.060 different commandments. And many of these false religions also have images and try to make 1.00

00:06:01.940 their God in the image of man or whatever it might be. So, a breach of the second commandment. 0.95

00:06:06.780 But the point is this, it's not whether but which, right? You guys have heard me say this

00:06:12.780 several times. It's not whether, but which. Every culture has a reigning orthodoxy, a worldview,

00:06:19.180 and it's always religious. Secularism is a religion. It's not the absence of religion. 0.77

00:06:26.160 It's not whether, but which. Secularism is a religion. So, it's not whether we're going to 0.58

00:06:30.720 have a religious society. It's just which religion will we have. Modernity and secularism and feminism

00:06:36.400 and all these, this is religious. The word culture comes from the Latin cultus. It means worship. 0.74

00:06:42.280 That's what culture is.

00:06:43.520 Culture is shaped by worship.

00:06:46.320 Who do we worship?

00:06:47.180 How do we worship?

00:06:48.440 Right?

00:06:48.920 And so it's not whether we worship.

00:06:50.940 It's simply which God will we worship.

00:06:53.500 It's not whether we're religious, but which religion will we have.

00:06:56.320 And all religions have a worldview.

00:06:59.800 And within that worldview, there is a reigning orthodoxy.

00:07:03.140 Right?

00:07:03.320 What is permissible?

00:07:05.200 What is true?

00:07:06.320 That's what orthodoxy.

00:07:07.300 Right?

00:07:07.500 So right now within secularism, we have, which is religious.

00:07:11.680 um, we have religious priests and these religious priests are, are, are laying out for us the new

00:07:17.100 orthodoxy, right? What, what are you talking about, Joe? I'm talking about the ministry of truth,

00:07:20.880 right? I'm talking about this Orwellian crazy madness that we're seeing in the news right now

00:07:27.420 that, that Democrats, the Joe Biden administration wants to, to appoint a, a

00:07:32.600 inso facto ministry of truth that decides what's misinformation and what's, uh, disinformation

00:07:39.540 and what's actually true. And it's going to be headed up by the same people that said Hunter's

00:07:44.180 laptop was a conspiracy theory and false fake news. But it wasn't. Spoiler alert, it was true.

00:07:53.740 You know, so like that's an orthodoxy. That's a dogma, right? So it's not whether but which.

00:07:58.600 Every society, every culture, cultists is worship. You're going to worship someone, just

00:08:03.360 who and how. And it's going to be religious and every religion has a worldview and a reigning

00:08:08.720 dogma or orthodoxy of what's permissible. And then everything outside of that orthodoxy is

00:08:14.120 going to be your blasphemy. Blasphemy. So right now, think about it. In the current religion

00:08:19.620 that is predominant in America today, which is not Christianity, I think that is our founding 0.54

00:08:23.900 religion. So I do believe we're a Christian nation in the sense that I would say we're

00:08:27.460 currently a Christian nation in the process of apostatizing and apostatizing in the direction

00:08:33.140 of going towards another religion, specifically secularism. So, secularism being this rising 0.58

00:08:40.920 religion in America, as we're turning our back on the Lord and apostatizing from our original

00:08:45.520 founding of being a Christian nation, not saying all the founders were perfect Christians, but

00:08:49.200 you get my point, Christianized. As we're embracing the religion, the worship of secularism

00:08:55.520 and its new dogma, everything outside of that dogma, outside of that orthodoxy,

00:09:01.320 what's been deemed as permissible is blasphemy. So are there blasphemy laws currently in our

00:09:07.400 nation with the reigning religion that we have right now of secularism? Are there blasphemy

00:09:12.780 laws? Let me ask the question like this. Are there things that you can get canceled for?

00:09:18.220 Is there a cancel culture in our religious society in America today? And the answer is,

00:09:24.640 of course, yes. It's not whether but which. So, I'm not a free speech absolutist, meaning aka I'm

00:09:32.460 not a neocon, you know, squishy Republican libertarian. No, no, no, no. I want law. I'm

00:09:38.820 not lawless like the libertarian. I want law. I just, I want God's law. It's either autonomy,

00:09:44.780 man's law, or theonomy, God's law. And if it's God's law, it's not who, if we worship, it's who

00:09:51.380 we worship and how we worship. So, if we're going to be worshipers, a culture, cultists worship,

00:09:56.860 which we are, we have no choice in that, then let's worship God. The God that actually exists,

00:10:01.620 let's adopt his worldview, his orthodoxy, and then everything that he says is outside of that 0.59

00:10:06.880 would be the actual blasphemy law. So, you're going to cancel something and someone, is my 0.83

00:10:11.640 point. You're going to cancel something and someone. And right now, our nation, who are

00:10:16.980 they canceling? Straight, white, evangelical men. So, you're going to cancel someone. It's not if

00:10:26.180 we cancel, it's just who we cancel and what we cancel them for, right? So, you're going to cancel

00:10:30.940 someone. Yeah, I would like to cancel Islam. Yes. And I'm not saying I want to round up Muslims like 1.00

00:10:39.900 they do in China and hurt people. But yeah, I would say that in a perfect theonomic society, 1.00

00:10:46.700 which I think we will have, it's going to take time, but I think we will have that, 1.00

00:10:51.540 yeah, Islam would be blasphemy. It would be worship of a false god. It would be a breach 1.00

00:10:57.780 of the commandments and you would not be able to build a mosque in a perfectly theonomic world, 1.00

00:11:03.880 which I do believe we will have. What the penalties would be for false worship, 1.00

00:11:09.400 what the penalties would be for those who blaspheme, there's a debate to be had about

00:11:14.200 that, but again, I think case law that we find in Israel, and I think a lot of the penalties that

00:11:19.000 you find are saying that this is the full extent of the punishment, right? So, if a child is

00:11:25.380 disrespectful and rebellious to his parents, you know, case law says in the Mosaic law, 0.98

00:11:32.400 civil law, that he should be stoned, put to death. Guys like Doug Wilson argue that that's the full 0.93

00:11:39.000 extent. So, just like we have case law in our system that was built off of the Bible, the Bible

00:11:43.540 system of laws. You know, we have certain crimes, things that are deemed as crimes,

00:11:49.740 and then you have the maximum penalty that can be inflicted. And so I would look at some of

00:11:54.900 these civil laws with Israel saying this is the maximum. So not saying that Israel would have

00:11:59.560 been in sin if they didn't put a wayward rebellious son to death, but saying that they could put him 0.57

00:12:07.000 to death, but they would be in sin if they didn't punish him at all. There'd have to be some kind

00:12:11.580 penalty. So there's a minimum penalty, right? This is the minimum fine, the minimum penalty,

00:12:16.700 the maximum. And so there would be something along those lines for worship of false gods

00:12:21.340 in a perfect theonomic system and society. And so somebody who is a Muslim in their heart 0.97

00:12:27.820 privately, and it's not witnessable, and they're not a Muslim evangelist, and they're not doing 0.81

00:12:33.240 these public things, then that would be a sin, but not a crime, right? There's a distinction.

00:12:37.960 That would be a sin, but not a crime. 0.88

00:12:39.520 But if they committed the crime of doing something public, like raising a mosque to a false god 0.98

00:12:44.260 in a Christian nation, which should be our goal, then yes, there would actually be a 0.91

00:12:49.060 penalty and there'd be a spectrum, minimum and maximum. 1.00

00:12:53.540 And yeah, no mosque. 0.97

00:12:57.540 Yeah, no worship of false gods.

00:12:59.440 No way.

00:13:00.100 Thanks so much for listening.

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00:13:06.540 review if you enjoyed the show. This is undoubtedly the best way that you can help us get this

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The NXR Podcast - July 14, 2022

QUESTIONS - Does Theonomy Allow For Other Religions In Society？

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