The NXR Podcast - March 25, 2022


QUESTIONS - Is Equality A Worthy Pursuit？


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Length

5 minutes

Words per minute

186.89

Word count

1,087

Sentence count

69

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Hate speech

1

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Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

In this episode, we discuss the question: Is equality a virtue? Is it something to be strived after as a virtue, or is it something that has to be achieved through hierarchy? In the new heaven and new earth, will there be equality among humans? Will there be hierarchies among humans continue into eternity?

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 Hey guys, real quick before we get started I have a small request. If you've been blessed by our
00:00:04.580 content and you like this show, would you take just a brief moment and leave us a five-star
00:00:09.020 review? This is quite possibly the most effective thing that you can do to ensure that this content
00:00:14.680 gets out to as many people as possible. Thanks. Is equality, kind of with your talk, is equality
00:00:25.000 even something to be strived after as a virtue clearly it is not something to be achieved via
00:00:31.080 government but even in the new heaven and new earth will there be equality or will hierarchies
00:00:37.460 among humans continue into eternity all right uh i don't think equality is a virtue so that's
00:00:44.540 number one and there's not saying i endorse all of c.s lewis's theology he has an interesting
00:00:50.340 essay where he talks about this. And I can't remember all his arguments in the essay, but
00:00:56.020 I think it comes down to, it's a state of being and it could be beneficial in certain circumstances,
00:01:01.800 but it's not a virtue in like love or these intangibles that we, like courage we were just
00:01:07.200 talking about. Like these are virtues that can really, like you don't, you don't like watch Bob
00:01:12.680 going down. It's like, Bob, he's so equal. Like, right. But Bob, Bob is Bob. Yeah. Bob can be
00:01:17.840 like charitable, Bob can be compassionate, Bob can't be equal. So equal is not really a virtue.
00:01:23.920 But as far as hierarchies in heaven, I mean, there's always going to be a hierarchy between
00:01:28.600 God and creation. So that's like the Peter Jones, like two-ism, one-ism, two-ism thing, right?
00:01:36.880 So yeah, I think so. But so here's the question, and this is probably, I would assume AD
00:01:43.820 probably agrees with this. And I think you would agree with this too, Joel, that
00:01:47.460 people that are egalitarian, they're usually looking for verses that can somehow forward
00:01:53.040 their agenda. So when they say like, oh, every tribe's hung nation around the throne, like all
00:01:58.020 they're like equally. No, they're all the same. We should just diversify your church. That's what
00:02:02.120 that means. Or we're all one in Christ. There's no slave. There's no, you know, there's all these
00:02:08.340 distinctions that exist in the temporal world. Like they don't apply in heaven or something.
00:02:12.420 I think they're just they're trying to grab something that might fit into what they already believe most of the time.
00:02:18.140 And so I and probably misinterpreting it for the most part, because we do keep some of those distinctions.
00:02:23.240 Otherwise, there wouldn't be tribes, tongues and nations in heaven.
00:02:25.440 There's still some distinction there when you get to heaven.
00:02:27.940 So, yeah, I want you to expand.
00:02:30.120 So my thought is, yeah, so equality is not a virtue.
00:02:32.460 Justices, justices.
00:02:34.080 And as you all know, there's a difference between equality and equity.
00:02:37.780 And so equality of opportunity versus equality of outcome.
00:02:40.940 Those are two different things.
00:02:42.040 And so first, you have to define terms.
00:02:44.200 What do you mean by equal?
00:02:45.620 And often what they mean is equality of outcome, which is really the heart of egalitarianism, is equality of outcome.
00:02:51.600 And here's why that's not a virtue.
00:02:53.540 It's not a virtue not simply because it's abstract or because it's lacking in virtue, but it actually has a presence of sin, the opposite.
00:03:04.260 It's not just non-virtuous, it's un-virtuous.
00:03:09.020 Equality of outcome is in justice.
00:03:12.800 It requires, equality of outcome requires injustice.
00:03:15.940 So equality is not a virtue, but justice is.
00:03:18.600 And justice, I believe, under the law in a judicial system does, it mandates equality
00:03:23.420 of opportunity, equal under the law, equal justice, equal weights and measures, two or
00:03:28.820 three witnesses, not just, you know, me too.
00:03:31.240 I said it, believe all women, you know, the first person who runs into the room is not
00:03:35.060 always the victim. 0.97
00:03:36.280 Sometimes they're lying, which actually means the person they're lying about is the true
00:03:39.340 victim, right?
00:03:40.100 So it's not equity, it's equality, and when we say equality, equality in and of itself is not a virtue, but equality of opportunity and equality under the law, if we're speaking of equality in those terms, that what we're actually talking about is justice, and justice is a virtue.
00:03:55.860 So justice produces equality, not of outcome, but equality of opportunity, and in that sense, justice is a virtue, and I believe that that can be achieved in physical ways, tangible, practical, temporal ways, through government.
00:04:08.340 So the question says clearly it's not something to be achieved via government, but I would argue that actually is the role of government, and God assigned it to government.
00:04:15.040 So we have sovereign spheres.
00:04:16.600 They each have their jurisdiction.
00:04:17.640 They each have their roles and responsibilities, and one of the roles of the civil sphere is equality of opportunity, equality under the law.
00:04:25.260 So I would say that insofar as we're speaking of equality in that sense, we're speaking of justice, and justice is the chief ministry of the state, whereas the church is a ministry of word and sacrament.
00:04:37.400 It's a ministry of mercy.
00:04:38.940 It's gospel.
00:04:40.060 Whereas the state, it's not a ministry of, you know, so people are like, well, don't we want to have compassion and get rid of the death penalty?
00:04:45.620 Shouldn't we be compassionate?
00:04:46.800 The state is not called to compassion.
00:04:49.240 It's called to justice.
00:04:50.760 They're God's avengers, vengeance, right?
00:04:53.620 That's why we don't take vengeance into our own hands.
00:04:55.700 We're not vigil antis because we haven't been given vengeance as a ministry by God, as families, individuals, or churches.
00:05:03.520 The state, though, has.
00:05:04.600 That is their chief ministry, is a ministry of vengeance, justice.
00:05:08.980 And because of that, I think the state actually is, in terms of society as a whole, the chief institute, divinely instituted by God himself, that should be enacting justice.
00:05:18.960 And if we have a righteous state, they actually can achieve, through justice and just laws, equality, so long as we're speaking of equality of opportunity, equality under the law, and not equality of outcome.
00:05:29.920 Do you have any?
00:05:30.620 No, you guys covered it. Good job.
00:05:31.740 Great. Thanks so much for listening.
00:05:33.460 But real quick, before you go, do us a small favor, take a moment, and leave us a five-star
00:05:38.960 review if you enjoyed the show.
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00:05:48.340 Thanks so much.