The NXR Podcast - QUESTIONS - Is Postmil Necessary For Theonomy？

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00:00:17.540 Thanks.

00:00:21.760 Chris Matthews writes this,

00:00:23.760 Could you speak to the relationship between post-millennialism and theonomy?

00:00:28.180 I see the appropriateness of desiring to apply God's standards in all areas of life, but I do

00:00:35.220 not see the scriptures necessarily saying that the outcome of applying theonomic principles will

00:00:41.100 play out in this world as the post-mill position believes it will. Can you have one without the

00:00:49.400 other, in other words? So, great question. Basically, can you be theonomic without being

00:00:54.680 post-millennial. And so I appreciate the question. Thank you, Chris Matthews, for writing in.

00:00:59.660 This is what I would say. First, I want to simply say I'm encouraged that it sounds like the

00:01:05.960 emphasis that you're giving in your question is to theonomy. And I think that this is right. I

00:01:11.280 think that it is biblically right. What we have for centuries and centuries within church history

00:01:17.280 is not a lot of, at least in the major historic creeds and confessions, no major consensus or

00:01:25.660 specificity in regards to eschatology. And that was intentional. What we have to realize is that

00:01:33.560 throughout the last 2,000 years of church history, since the life, death, resurrection,

00:01:39.120 and ascension of Christ, we have a progressive sharpening of doctrine throughout church history.

00:01:47.280 for the first couple centuries, two, three, even four centuries, the church is still just trying

00:01:52.640 to figure out who Jesus is. They're trying to figure out the hypostatic union. They're trying

00:01:57.860 to figure out, you know, was Jesus God? And what appeared to be flesh was not actually flesh,

00:02:03.900 but rather just a hologram or an apparition, right? Is it Arianism? Is it Docetism? You know, 0.77

00:02:10.340 there's all these heresies that creep up. The Eutychian heresy, the Nestorian heresy,

00:02:15.100 all these have to do with Jesus and particularly regarding the two natures of Christ. And we

00:02:22.460 believe that what the Bible teaches is that Jesus is fully God and fully man. He's not God,

00:02:29.820 but appearing to be man. He's not man, but appearing to be God. He's not half God, half man,

00:02:35.680 half man, half God. That's not what we have going on. Jesus is fully God and fully man.

00:02:41.080 And so Philippians 2 that talks about him emptying himself, this is where heresies like 0.73

00:02:45.620 the kenosis heresy come into play.

00:02:47.320 Did he really remove his divine nature?

00:02:50.380 And we would say no.

00:02:51.700 He did not count equality with God as something to be grasped.

00:02:54.860 And what that really translates to is something to be clinged to.

00:02:58.400 So he was equal with God, is equal with God, always will be equal with God the Father.

00:03:04.040 But he did not view this equality as something to be clinged to, but rather was willing to

00:03:09.580 humble himself and to take on flesh, to humble and empty himself. And that emptying is what we

00:03:15.940 would call subtraction by addition, that he did not actually remove the divine nature, but rather

00:03:21.960 he took upon himself a second nature, namely the human nature. So it's divinity that is veiled or

00:03:28.120 concealed. So the divinity doesn't go anywhere, but it is veiled and concealed by his human nature.

00:03:34.620 So he doesn't substitute the divine nature for the human nature, but rather he adds to the divine nature, the human nature that veils and conceals it.

00:03:42.720 And so it appears to be an emptying, it appears to be a subtraction, but it is subtraction by addition.

00:03:48.300 Therefore, Jesus is fully God and fully man, right?

00:03:51.840 So I can articulate that, but we take it for granted, right?

00:03:56.000 You guys are probably saying, oh, of course, everybody knows that. 0.92

00:03:58.500 Well, yeah, everybody knows that now, and there are plenty of heretics that still don't 0.83

00:04:03.160 know that, or they're lying about it.

00:04:05.080 But for a long time, the church really had to wrestle with this, and God used heresy.

00:04:11.560 God used, providentially, he uses false doctrines as an opportunity in his providence for the

00:04:18.040 church to sharpen, further sharpen its theology and doctrine on these matters.

00:04:23.000 So my point is, progressively, the church has grown in its doctrinal understanding.

00:04:28.140 And for the first few centuries of the church, they were primarily combating heresies about

00:04:33.260 the Son of God, about his being one person within the Godhead.

00:04:38.160 So we have one God, three persons, and the second person in the Trinity, namely the Son

00:04:42.420 of God, has two natures, right?

00:04:44.380 It's a little bit confusing.

00:04:45.960 It's not exactly simple.

00:04:47.900 Anybody who says that the Trinity is simple, I would question what they're saying.

00:04:53.300 The Trinity is not simple.

00:04:54.840 So one God, three persons within the second person of the Godhead, two natures.

00:04:59.700 One God, three persons, two natures, speaking of Christ.

00:05:02.760 So it took centuries to iron this out.

00:05:05.660 And so we don't see a lot of eschatological statements being made by the church throughout

00:05:11.160 church history.

00:05:12.480 And even as we get further along with the reformers and, you know, in the 1500s, 1600s,

00:05:18.320 the Puritans, certainly they had an eschatology.

00:05:21.580 Many of the Puritans were post-millennial.

00:05:23.400 Well, they believe that what they were doing, especially those Puritans that came to America,

00:05:30.360 the Covenanters, they viewed the church as a city on a hill, and some of them viewed

00:05:35.380 America as a city on a hill, that it was going to be a light to the world and show the beauty

00:05:39.740 of God's law when it's actually applied to all of life, and that it would actually be

00:05:44.840 successful.

00:05:45.640 They weren't just theonomic, but they were post-millennial.

00:05:48.360 So these things start to come out, but still to this day, 2,000 years later, the church

00:05:52.640 is very much divided over eschatology. And we would say that this is not a primary theological

00:05:58.540 issue. So that's another thing that we have to take into account is theological triage, right?

00:06:03.240 There are things that Christians must believe, primary issues. There are things that Christians

00:06:07.120 should believe, secondary issues. And there are things that Christians may believe, tertiary

00:06:11.320 theological issues. And so these things, doing theological triage properly is very important.

00:06:17.260 And if we're trying to place eschatology, whether it be premil, and we really have two

00:06:22.060 subcategories there, historic premillennialism, and then also dispensational premillennialism,

00:06:27.880 you can find some individuals like Justin Martyr within just the first and second century

00:06:33.080 of the church that held to a historic premillennialism.

00:06:35.900 So it would be unfair to say there's no premillennialism in the early church.

00:06:40.020 There was, but dispensational premillennialism is a modern phenomenon.

00:06:44.720 and I believe that it is absolutely wrong. A lot of this came out of the Schofield Bible and also

00:06:52.280 just Americans coming back from the First and Second World War and feeling defeated and hopeless,

00:06:56.840 seeing just incredible evil with the Third Reich and all these kinds of things and feeling like,

00:07:03.220 man, I don't know if things actually are getting better. So dispensational premillennialism, 0.92

00:07:07.560 it's a modern phenomenon, but we do have the historic premillennial viewpoint early on in

00:07:12.800 the church. All millennialism comes a little bit later, but you see that also early on. And you

00:07:17.800 see post-millennialism early on. And you see post-millennialism have an uptick with the

00:07:23.360 reform tradition, especially the Puritans. And then, like I said, with really, again,

00:07:28.400 modern history, you see post-millennialism kind of go down on the charts as dispensational

00:07:35.060 pre-millennialism rises, and a lot of that being newspaper exegesis rather than actually

00:07:42.660 biblical exegesis, meaning people were looking at current events and the world wars and all

00:07:47.380 these kinds of things, and then they were interpreting the Bible in light of those

00:07:51.160 current events, cultural and political events, rather than just looking at the Bible plainly

00:07:57.000 and what it actually says. So a little bit of eisegesis there instead of exegesis, but the

00:08:01.360 point remains, whether you're pre-mill, all-mill, or post-mill, all this in terms of theological

00:08:08.540 triage, I would say falls into the secondary category, meaning that all of these positions

00:08:13.400 are still underneath the banner of Christian orthodoxy. It is not a matter of hell and heaven.

00:08:20.460 It is not a matter of salvation. Whereas theonomy, while not being a matter of salvation

00:08:27.540 on its face, right? So salvation, you know, we believe the five solas. We're saved by grace

00:08:33.600 alone, through faith alone, and Christ alone, according to the scripture alone, to the glory

00:08:37.700 of God alone. However, you know, when we look at the book of James, faith without works is dead.

00:08:43.840 Faith without works is dead. And that doesn't mean, just for the record, the difference between

00:08:48.100 Protestant Christianity and Roman Catholicism, which I would believe is outside of that banner

00:08:54.220 of Christian orthodoxy because there's clear denials of the gospel. The difference in a

00:08:59.500 nutshell is this. The Protestant, well, let's start with the Catholic. The Roman Catholic would say 0.67

00:09:03.560 faith plus works equals salvation. Faith plus works equals salvation. The Protestant would say

00:09:09.640 that faith equals salvation plus works. So faith alone is sufficient to save. We're saved by grace

00:09:17.000 through faith in christ alone but if we're actually saved the faith that saves saving faith

00:09:24.720 is never alone so faith alone saves but saving faith is never alone it is always accompanied and

00:09:30.980 rather proven evidenced by a life of good works right so all that being said theonomy in that

00:09:38.800 sense, I think is a bigger, it ranks higher on theological triage than eschatology. That still

00:09:46.940 doesn't mean theonomy is primary, but you have to understand within theological triage, it's not

00:09:53.000 just like there are three shelves, okay? Imagine that there's primary, secondary, tertiary, but

00:09:59.040 within each of these major categories, primary, secondary, tertiary, I would say there are multiple

00:10:04.620 shelves. So especially within the secondary category, there are things higher on a higher

00:10:09.640 shelf, still secondary, but also more important than something else that is secondary, right?

00:10:17.200 So that you could have two theological issues that are both secondary in nature. So baptism,

00:10:22.320 right? Modes of baptism in terms of pedo-baptism versus credo-baptism, the argument between,

00:10:27.920 you know, Reformed Baptist and Presbyterians. This is secondary. It's not tertiary, right? It's

00:10:33.220 secondary. It's not primary. It's not a matter of heaven and hell. It is secondary. But I would

00:10:38.700 say that Calvinism, Calvinism and Arminianism, which is also secondary, ranks higher within the

00:10:46.260 secondary category than baptism. I think it is theologically and biblically more important that

00:10:52.720 someone be a Calvinist rather than Arminian than a Credo-Baptist rather than Paedo-Baptist,

00:11:01.960 if that makes sense. So both secondary, but still within the secondary category,

00:11:07.120 one higher than the other. So I would say theonomy and eschatology, likewise, are both

00:11:12.880 within the secondary category. Neither one is a matter of orthodoxy, okay? But also neither one,

00:11:20.160 I would say, is tertiary. I would say both are secondary, and I believe that it is theologically

00:11:25.460 and biblically faithful to place theonomy above actually eschatology.

00:11:32.600 And so to answer the question in brevity, the answer would be this.

00:11:37.220 No, you don't have to be post-millennial to be theonomic.

00:11:40.800 And really, we're going to have to flesh out what it means to be theonomic.

00:11:44.380 What is theonomy?

00:11:45.400 And that's one of the other questions I want to get to.

00:11:47.200 So we'll wait for just a moment, and I'll flesh that out more.

00:11:49.600 But the way that it was summed up in Chris Matthews' question, I thought you did a great

00:11:54.440 job.

00:11:54.820 just saying all of christ for all of life uh that with theonomy ultimately what we're saying is

00:12:00.840 theonomy god's law right so theonomy it's it's two words being put together theos and nomos right so

00:12:08.220 it's god's law and really the the only alternative the primary alternative would be autonomy right

00:12:15.540 and so ultimately it's either the creature and his own individual law man's law or it's god's law

00:12:22.480 And what we have to recognize is that with most things in life, the question is not whether

00:12:27.000 but which.

00:12:28.220 It's not whether but which.

00:12:30.180 Everybody is going to live in line with some law, some set of morality, some standard for

00:12:38.880 morality.

00:12:39.320 It's either going to be God's standard or it's going to be somebody else's standard,

00:12:43.340 typically man's standard, either the collective society and culture as a whole or you as an

00:12:48.640 individual, your own personal standard.

00:12:50.380 but it's not a matter of whether, it is a matter of which. And so theonomy, we're simply saying

00:12:56.920 God's law is the way that the world should function. And just for the record, the law of

00:13:01.960 God was not merely given. It's not specific to the church. It is not specific to Christians.

00:13:08.420 The basis for God's rights in issuing his law is not the basis of God as savior,

00:13:16.200 but rather the basis of God as creator. Let me say that again. What is the basis,

00:13:21.000 the foundation that ensures God's rights to deliver his law? It is the basis of him being

00:13:27.500 creator, not savior, because God is savior of some, but he is universal creator, creator of all,

00:13:36.800 all creatures, including all image bearing creatures, all humanity. So the law is given

00:13:41.960 by the creator to all of his creatures so god is is a savior not of all we don't believe in

00:13:47.820 universal salvation but we do believe in the universal creatorhood of god and is that on that

00:13:54.300 basis not as god functioning as savior but rather god functioning as creator that god bears king

00:14:00.820 rights creator rights to be able to issue to his creatures his law now what what portions of his

00:14:08.340 law would be kind of the next question. What we have to start with is his moral law. When we say

00:14:14.440 moral law, theologically, this is what is used, the phrase coined to describe the Decalogue. That

00:14:20.380 is the 10 commandments that we find throughout the scripture, but most notably in Exodus chapter 20.

00:14:26.320 So this is God's moral law. And people have made a case for natural law. And I would just say that

00:14:31.160 I would align with many of the reformers who agreed that there was actually no distinction

00:14:36.220 between natural law and moral law, that natural law and moral law were actually synonymous.

00:14:42.940 So if we're speaking of natural law, what is it that God reveals through natural revelation?

00:14:48.020 What is the law of God written on the hearts of men, not just Christian men, not just those

00:14:52.880 who are regenerate, but all people simply by virtue of them being created in God's image.

00:14:58.260 There is a law of God written on their hearts.

00:15:01.000 Romans 1 talks about this.

00:15:02.340 Romans 2 most notably talks about this.

00:15:05.260 and God reveals something about himself and his moral standards through natural revelation.

00:15:11.480 So Romans 1 really gets to natural revelation. Romans 2 really deals with natural law, right?

00:15:18.140 So Romans 1 talks about how God's attributes can be clearly seen by what he has made through the

00:15:25.140 cosmos, the created order. God is speaking through creation something about himself. We can see his

00:15:31.640 his eternal power, his divine nature. These things have not just been clearly displayed by God,

00:15:37.640 but the message has in fact been received by all people, even the unbeliever. The message has been

00:15:44.540 received. These things, the text says in Romans 1, have been clearly perceived, not just presented

00:15:51.240 by God, but received, perceived by the creature, by mankind. That's Romans 1. That's natural

00:15:56.760 revelation. Romans chapter two talks about the Gentiles. And what the apostle Paul is getting 0.92

00:16:01.800 at is he's talking about Gentile nations and cultures that have never received even an ounce

00:16:08.580 of special revelation, special revelation being the written word of God, the prophets and the

00:16:14.700 apostles inscripturated in the Bible. So there are Gentile nations that have never received 1.00

00:16:20.440 an evangelist or a preacher or an apostle or the Torah or scrolls or any page of the Bible, 0.71

00:16:29.960 no special revelation. And yet Paul says these Gentiles function as a law unto themselves by 0.98

00:16:37.460 what? By virtue of the fact that they themselves written on their hearts have a set standard of 1.00

00:16:44.880 morality. They themselves recognize internally, instinctually, we might say, that certain things

00:16:53.140 are wrong, such as murder or theft. And so because their own consciences, he says in Romans chapter

00:16:59.740 two, bear witness against them when they sin, that is proof, proof positive, that even without

00:17:06.520 special revelation, simply by virtue of people being made in the image of God, there is natural

00:17:12.240 law written on the hearts of men. Now, the question is, again, what is natural law? And I would say

00:17:16.000 it's all 10 of the commandments, all 10. And some would argue here and divide the law up into two

00:17:21.820 tables. And I would agree with that division in terms of the moral law of God, which I'm saying

00:17:26.160 is synonymous with natural law. I believe they're one and the same. And I believe that moral and

00:17:30.760 natural law is the deck log, the 10 commandments. But some would say moral law or divine law is all

00:17:37.440 10 of the commandments, and natural law is more so referring to simply half of the 10 commandments,

00:17:43.780 the second table within the 10 commandments. Now, the two tables of the law within the 10 commandments,

00:17:48.820 the first table deals with the greatest commandment that Jesus gives us, right? That you

00:17:53.260 should love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and all your mind. And we find

00:17:58.120 this fleshed out in the first table of the Decalogue, the first four of the 10 commandments,

00:18:02.640 right? Have no other gods before me. Do not make for yourselves any graven images. Do not take the

00:18:07.880 Lord's name in vain and remember the Sabbath and keep it holy. Jesus says the second greatest

00:18:12.640 commandment is like it, that you should love your neighbor as yourself. And this would be fleshed

00:18:18.260 out by the second table of the law, of the Decalogue, namely commandments number five through

00:18:23.640 10, right? Number five, honor your father and mother. Number six, do not murder. Number seven,

00:18:27.980 do not commit adultery. Number eight, do not steal. Number nine, do not bear false witness.

00:18:32.660 And number 10, do not covet. And so some would say natural law is simply a reference to commandments

00:18:37.720 number five through 10, how we should love our neighbor. And divine law, moral law, is the full

00:18:44.540 decalogue, including commandments number one through four, how we should love the Lord our God.

00:18:49.280 But I would argue that by virtue of natural revelation and natural law, natural revelation,

00:18:53.680 God speaking displaying who he is by what he has made and natural law the conscience because we're

00:19:00.660 made in the image of God that that that by virtue of both those things natural law and natural

00:19:06.440 revelation we see not just the second table of the law how we should love our neighbor but also

00:19:11.460 the first table of the law so the sabbath for instance the fourth commandment that deals with

00:19:16.060 one of the ways in which we should love the Lord our God by remembering the sabbath and keeping it

00:19:20.960 holy, I believe that this is within natural law and natural revelation. All right, let me explain

00:19:26.900 real quick, natural revelation, where we get the fourth commandment. There are pagans and

00:19:31.580 unbelievers who recognize that in agriculture, you would be wise to plant and harvest for six

00:19:40.080 years, but on the seventh year to allow the land to rest. Because you can actually over time wear

00:19:47.040 out the land if you are planting and harvesting using the land year after year after year without

00:19:53.200 a break, without any rest. And it seems as though the best pattern of how long should we rest and

00:19:59.060 how often should we rest is work the land for six years and rest for one. Now we find this within

00:20:05.240 civil law given to Israel, but we also find this even among Gentiles and pagans and unbelievers 0.65

00:20:13.220 recognizing that this pattern, this system, it naturally works because God has built it into

00:20:20.760 the fabric of his natural world, the world that he has created. And so even in that,

00:20:25.660 through natural revelation in terms of agriculture and breaking the land, resting the land in a one

00:20:31.080 in seven year pattern, we see what? Well, we see a sense of divine law, the fourth commandment

00:20:38.540 within the Decalogue being shown, being demonstrated to not just Christians through

00:20:44.940 special revelation, but to all people through natural revelation. We also see this Sabbath

00:20:50.100 principle in natural revelation simply by the way that God has set up the world to work

00:20:55.840 with patterns of work and rest in terms of seasons, in terms of day and night, in terms of

00:21:03.840 years. In terms of the way that the world rotates and orbits around the sun, God has built in

00:21:12.880 patterns of time and God has built in patterns of produce and work and also rest. And the one

00:21:21.620 in seven pattern, the one day in seven of rest seems to be something that is built in not just

00:21:29.680 to special revelation, the Bible, but into natural revelation. It is something that can be

00:21:34.960 gleaned. And we know from natural revelation in Romans chapter one, Paul says, the existence of

00:21:40.640 God is plain to people. And not just his mere existence, but some of his attributes, namely

00:21:46.320 his eternal power, his divine nature. These things are clearly displayed by what he has made.

00:21:52.580 So there's the first commandment, have no other gods before me. There is a God in heaven who has

00:21:57.620 created the world. He's worthy of worship and he should not have to compete for our worship. We

00:22:03.520 should worship him alone. And he is the invisible God. Nobody has seen this God. And so we should

00:22:10.360 not make graven images. We should not seek to do something that God has not willed to do himself,

00:22:15.300 namely make the invisible God visible through images. There's the second commandment. And if

00:22:20.640 he is the creator of the universe, the God who exists and who is eternal in his power and divine

00:22:26.780 in his nature. It only makes sense to worship him alone, and it makes sense in our worship to

00:22:32.060 worship with sincerity and to not be trite or trivial or take his name in vain. There's the

00:22:37.100 third commandment, right? So my point is this. The Decalogue, the Ten Commandments, Exodus chapter 20

00:22:42.800 is moral law, and I would argue that it is also natural law. And this functions, the Ten

00:22:48.880 Commandments functions also as summary law, is what theonomists would say, summary law, meaning

00:22:54.540 that the ceremonial law of Christ has been fulfilled by him and abrogated, done away

00:22:59.780 with, because he is our forever high priest in the order of Melchizedek. 0.66

00:23:03.000 He's also not only the high priest, but he is the sacrifice, the final sacrifice, the

00:23:08.060 lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.

00:23:09.920 And he washes us not just by water in baptism, but he washes us by his blood.

00:23:16.220 He has purified and sanctified the church, those who trust in him by his blood.

00:23:20.560 So hand-washing and washing rituals and customs and the priestly sacrificial system in Israel,

00:23:27.180 all these things have not only been fulfilled by Christ, but abrogated, that is done away

00:23:31.680 with.

00:23:32.160 So the three divisions of the law, the moral law of God, the ceremonial law, and the civil

00:23:36.260 law, the ceremonial has been not only fulfilled, but abrogated.

00:23:40.100 So all we're left with is moral and civil.

00:23:42.760 And the civil law of God, if we track this down, what we can see is the civil law of

00:23:47.400 God is simply the practical application in Israel as a society and a culture and a nation. It's the

00:23:55.020 practical obedience, the practical application of the Decalogue, of the moral law, right? You're

00:24:01.360 taking the moral law of God and then simply applying it as case law to individual circumstances

00:24:07.420 and situations, right? So one civil law example that's used often is building borders along the

00:24:13.420 roof of people's houses. Well, within their culture, without having air conditioning, people

00:24:17.940 often spending time on the roof to get the cool breeze. And especially in the summer months,

00:24:22.760 people would even sleep on top of the roof instead of in the heat inside of their house.

00:24:27.400 And so because people were spending time on the roof and there were flat roofs with tiles that

00:24:32.160 could be moved and those kinds of things, right? You think of the gospel narrative where the four

00:24:36.880 friends of somebody who was lame, they moved the tiles on the roof and lower him down for Jesus to

00:24:42.960 heal him because the house was crowded. They couldn't get in, right? So you have flat roofs

00:24:47.180 that are accessed and used frequently within that culture and their particular technology.

00:24:55.360 And so because people are spending time on the roofs, there is a civil law,

00:24:58.780 civil command given to make a border around the roof. Now, this is a practical obedience,

00:25:05.640 a practical application, cultural, political application, national application to Israel,

00:25:13.140 but it stems from the summary law of the Decalogue, the Ten Commandments. Which one? The Sixth

00:25:19.000 Commandment, thou shalt not murder. The heartbeat of thou shalt not murder, stated in the positive

00:25:24.200 sense, is thou shalt protect and esteem human life, because they've been made in the image of

00:25:30.120 God. They have unparalleled dignity as image bearers of the living God. So not only is it

00:25:34.700 wrong to murder and do harm, but really the commandment in its essence is to esteem and

00:25:42.920 protect the sanctity of human life because human beings are created in the image of God.

00:25:48.160 And so, boom, how do we apply that to this particular situation in Israel with people

00:25:53.080 who spend time on their roofs and might fall off? Well, here's a civil code, a civil law,

00:25:58.420 Build a border along the roof.

00:26:00.160 Now, that's not a one-to-one ratio for nations today,

00:26:04.640 nations today within the New Testament

00:26:06.640 after the life, death, and resurrection of Christ.

00:26:09.820 So it's not a one-to-one ratio from civil law in Israel

00:26:13.600 under the old covenant to civil law in America.

00:26:18.300 Not a one-to-one ratio, but it's a two-step.

00:26:20.540 Instead of a one-step, it's a two-step process. 0.67

00:26:23.300 You take the civil law given to Israel 0.57

00:26:25.280 And step one is you track it back to its general equity, its general equity in the moral law. 0.62

00:26:31.340 So you take the borders on the roof, that civil law, track it back to the sixth commandment.

00:26:36.520 And then that's step one.

00:26:37.920 Then step two is, and how do we apply that given our technology, our culture, our time,

00:26:43.040 our place here in America, and perhaps its speed limits on a highway.

00:26:48.460 So the point is, that's how we apply the law of God.

00:26:52.100 that is i i would argue now there is a breadth of differences um about theonomy and and how to

00:26:58.820 define theonomy um but but that is what i would argue for that is is what has known guys like

00:27:04.920 doug wilson have coined the phrase general equity theonomy and that is fully supported both by the

00:27:09.420 1689 confession and the westminster confession it talks about how the ceremonial law has been

00:27:14.980 abrogated the moral law is eternal and it's binding not just on the church but all people

00:27:19.860 in all times and all places,

00:27:21.980 the moral law being the Ten Commandments.

00:27:23.840 And then it goes further and talks about the civil law.

00:27:26.140 And it says that the civil law,

00:27:28.020 in terms of a one-to-one ratio to Israel,

00:27:30.440 it has been abrogated,

00:27:31.960 yet the general equity of the civil law continues

00:27:35.620 for all people in all times and all places

00:27:38.520 because the general equity of every civil law

00:27:42.440 given to Israel is ultimately rooted in the summary law

00:27:46.020 or moral law or natural law,

00:27:48.100 the Decalogue, the Ten Commandments, the Ten Commandments. And so all we're doing in theonomy

00:27:53.140 is we're saying that nations should not abide by autonomy, man's law, which is constantly

00:27:59.280 fluctuating, constantly evolving, constantly changing, and often immoral. But rather, it's

00:28:05.380 not whether but which, we should function by theonomy, God's law. And when we ask which one

00:28:10.900 of his laws, the Ten Commandments, because this has been revealed to all people by virtue of

00:28:15.500 special revelation, but also natural revelation and natural law written on the hearts, the

00:28:20.680 consciences of image-bearing creatures, mankind, this has been given to all people, all 10

00:28:26.480 of the commandments, moral law synonymous with natural law, and therefore this should

00:28:30.620 be enforced in every place, every nation, every time, every culture, for all people,

00:28:35.820 whether they identify as Christian or not, God gives this to all people on the basis

00:28:40.880 not of him being savior of some, but creator of all. And civil law is simply the practical

00:28:47.380 application, the practical application of the general equity of summary law, namely the 10

00:28:53.820 commandments. And so that in a nutshell is theonomy, at least the theonomy that has been

00:28:59.360 become kind of getting a bit of a resurgence these days, general equity theonomy, that is

00:29:05.380 simply all we're advocating for. That is a historic position. That is the Westminster position. That

00:29:11.920 is the 1689 position. And I would say that that is dealing with God's law for all people and the

00:29:19.980 absolute mandate for us to obey. And in that sense, obedience, practical, what we're talking

00:29:28.800 about ultimately with theonomy and post-mill theology is we're talking about theonomy,

00:29:33.260 practical obedience to christ versus particular position of eschatology which one's more important

00:29:41.860 theonomy practical obedience to christ so chris matthews you're you're correcting the question

00:29:48.140 practical obedience to christ trumps a particular eschatology and all you're asking with your

00:29:53.700 question with the correlation does there have to be a correlation between theonomy and

00:29:57.920 postmillennialism is basically, will theonomy be successful? That's really what you're asking. So

00:30:03.780 you're agreeing theonomy should be done. We should be obedient to apply the law of God to every area

00:30:10.140 of life. And so you're right on the money there. And postmill is simply just asking not what we

00:30:15.840 should do, but what will work. Not what we should do, but what will work. So theonomy really doesn't

00:30:22.000 address whether or not it'll work. Theonomy primarily just addresses the question of what

00:30:26.700 should we do? And the answer is we should obey God. We should obey God. And we should seek to

00:30:31.940 not just obey God theoretically or in our hearts or privately with this pietism, but we should

00:30:38.260 obey God practically with our hands and feet and not just in some areas of society, in some areas

00:30:44.000 of human life, but in all of life, the whole counsel of God for the whole of human life and

00:30:49.860 human society. That's theonomy. What should we do? And so every Christian should be a theonomist.

00:30:55.100 every christian should esteem the law of god and seek to apply it and seek to obey it and seek to

00:31:01.400 encourage others to do the same that's that's theonomy and yes that trumps post-millennialism

00:31:07.720 so really you can be a theonomist without being post-mill um you can be essentially what i'm

00:31:14.420 saying is you can be a theonomist and believe that this is what we should do but it won't actually

00:31:19.100 work it won't be successful in christianizing the nations and ultimately christians attempts

00:31:24.480 to be obedient and encourage others to be obedient will ultimately lend them towards

00:31:29.880 persecution, but Christ will come back in the bottom of the ninth and save a weak and

00:31:35.980 wobbly church that's on the ropes, but he will save the church from the world that is

00:31:43.640 in power and that is persecuting the church, and the church will therefore gain victory

00:31:48.340 by proxy because Christ will come back and win the day, right?

00:31:53.500 So you could be a theonomist and have that kind of that pessimistic eschatology, whether

00:31:58.280 it be all-mill or whether it be pre-mill, not all millennials are pessimistic, but some

00:32:05.240 are.

00:32:05.640 So you could be pre-mill, you could be all-mill, but still be theonomic.

00:32:10.040 And here's the final thing I'll say on this question.

00:32:12.340 I would rather you be theonomic and pre-mill or all-mill than be post-mill and not be

00:32:19.520 theonomic.

00:32:20.840 And so the question particularly was, can I be theonomic and not post-mill?

00:32:25.940 Yes.

00:32:27.440 But that kind of brings up another question, which is, can you be post-mill and not theonomic?

00:32:31.940 And for that one, I think I would say no.

00:32:34.680 And there are some that are, right?

00:32:36.080 There are some post-mill Presbyterians, especially like in Escondido Westminster, that are two

00:32:41.420 kingdom. 0.78

00:32:41.980 They are not theonomic.

00:32:43.380 They hold to a radical two kingdom theology.

00:32:46.060 I don't have time to go into that, but suffice it to say, they are not theonomic.

00:32:49.720 and yet they would hold to the post-mill position.

00:32:52.920 And I would say that that's a contradiction.

00:32:54.780 They would say it's not a contradiction

00:32:55.860 that simply by preaching the gospel,

00:32:57.900 we can Christianize the nations.

00:33:01.420 I would just say logically, okay, 0.97

00:33:02.920 but what flows out of that?

00:33:03.900 You preach the gospel, people get saved.

00:33:06.020 And if you're post-mill and you think lots of people

00:33:08.660 are progressively going to get saved,

00:33:10.620 some of those people, it would stand to reason,

00:33:12.320 will be in positions of the civil magistrate. 0.69

00:33:14.500 And so what does a Christian in the civil magistrate,

00:33:16.840 a Christian mayor, a Christian governor,

00:33:18.180 Christian Supreme Court justice, what do they do? What does being a Christian look like in that

00:33:25.580 vocation, in that station of life? I think it looks like legislating God's law. Thanks so much 0.82

00:33:31.520 for listening, but real quick, before you go, do us a small favor, take a moment, and leave us a

00:33:37.040 five-star review if you enjoyed the show. This is undoubtedly the best way that you can help us get

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The NXR Podcast - May 27, 2022

QUESTIONS - Is Postmil Necessary For Theonomy？

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