The NXR Podcast - December 24, 2022


QUESTIONS - Should Churches Deny Membership To Families That Use Public Schools?


Episode Stats


Length

18 minutes

Words per minute

178.6044

Word count

3,289

Sentence count

242

Harmful content

Misogyny

15

sentences flagged

Toxicity

8

sentences flagged

Hate speech

17

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 All right, listen, guys, I get it.
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00:00:42.740 Question from the Youngs.
00:00:43.840 Do you believe that a family should be denied membership
00:00:46.260 in the church if they do not homeschool
00:00:48.640 or have their children in Christian education?
00:00:52.180 Me and my wife were told that we had to prove repentance.
00:00:56.200 Okay, prove repentance.
00:00:57.280 Don't like that.
00:00:58.060 by homeschooling and by my wife quitting her job to be in the home before we would be considered
00:01:05.360 for membership. Your thoughts, please. Great question. Okay. Christians cannot use public
00:01:11.480 school, period. They can't. So I agree with that. With this one, Nathan, just keep the question up 1.00
00:01:17.440 because I'm going to take a couple of segments. All right. So Christians can't use public schools.
00:01:22.640 Public schools, neutrality is a myth. That's what I've been doing this whole episode. Moral 1.00
00:01:27.080 neutrality is a myth. Religious neutrality is a myth. Worship neutrality is a myth, right? So 0.92
00:01:33.640 public schools are state schools. It's pluralism. It's secularism. It's, and the biblical word would
00:01:43.980 be, it's polytheism. It's public atheism. That's what it is. And so your children are being taught
00:01:50.600 to hate the living God. And so, yes, as a father who's commanded to train your children up in the
00:01:56.900 fear and admonition of the Lord, that chiefly, that's mothers and fathers, but chiefly falls
00:02:00.360 on fathers, fathers, Ephesians chapter six, do not exasperate your children, but train them up in the
00:02:05.120 fear and paideia, the Christian curriculum, the Christian curriculum, the fear of the Lord and
00:02:11.720 Christian teaching. Okay. So, so you got to do that. You have to do that. You can do it. There
00:02:18.200 are multiple ways to do it and there are debates to be had about which way is better, but there
00:02:21.840 are certain ways that you can't do it. And you can't do it by using a public, atheistic, polytheistic,
00:02:28.160 God-hating school. That's called a public school. So you can't do that. So your church is right
00:02:33.120 that your kids can't go to public school. Now, here's the deal, though. This is where I would
00:02:37.800 disagree with your pastors. It's a good sentiment, but I wouldn't enforce it this way. This is not
00:02:44.320 how I would practically carry it out. So me and my wife were told that we had to prove repentance.
00:02:49.800 So that you got to be careful with, all right? So Acts mentions this phrase, this concept of
00:02:55.740 doing good works in keeping with repentance. But there's a fine line between penance
00:03:02.280 and good works in keeping with repentance. And I've done some teaching on this before,
00:03:06.900 actually with A.D. Robles, I think. But one of the ways I think just practically to distinguish
00:03:12.240 between penance, which is heresy, that's Roman Catholicism, working for God's grace, working
00:03:20.880 for atonement, working for forgiveness, and doing good works in keeping with repentance,
00:03:26.200 is it, this is just one way to distinguish between the two. When it comes to penance,
00:03:32.580 man will always tell you what to do, what your penance is specifically. You must do this. Your
00:03:39.400 Repentance is this many Hail Marys and this many Our Fathers and this, you know, blah,
00:03:43.220 blah, blah.
00:03:43.720 Whereas doing good works and keeping with repentance, the Holy Spirit decides, because
00:03:48.060 He governs and controls your sanctification, He decides what those good works are.
00:03:53.500 So, for instance, somebody could repent.
00:03:56.540 Now, it's going to fall into the category of that particular sin, though, okay?
00:04:00.580 So, there are some baselines.
00:04:01.840 There are some...
00:04:03.820 It's not a free-for-all.
00:04:06.080 There's some guardrails on this, okay?
00:04:07.920 So, if a guy is claiming to repent of sexual immorality, well, doing good works in keeping
00:04:16.160 with repentance, so that we know that that repentance is genuine, is going to look like
00:04:20.680 him being sanctified, doing good works in that arena of he failed in sexual immorality.
00:04:25.740 So, there's elements of sexual purity, okay?
00:04:30.140 But the Holy Spirit still dictates that.
00:04:31.880 So if we say, um, you are not repentant, we will not view you as repentant unless you
00:04:39.200 repent of your sexual immorality by, um, getting covenant eyes on your laptop and, um, and
00:04:47.380 selling your iPhone and buying a flip phone.
00:04:51.560 And the guy says, well, I can't have a flip phone because of the nature of my work.
00:04:56.160 Um, and, and so I'm not going to do that.
00:04:59.400 but I am going to get accountability partners and I'm going to do this. I'm going to do these other
00:05:03.280 things. And then he actually is bearing good, good works in keeping with repentance. And six
00:05:07.680 months go by and the pastor say, but you didn't do it our way. Well, that there's your sign. Boom.
00:05:13.140 That's a clear. And so you see what I'm saying? So the specificity of what those good works in
00:05:18.200 keeping with repentance are is, is usually a good sign of whether you're getting into the
00:05:22.840 realm of penance, man saying, you must repent like this. You must do good works in keeping
00:05:27.440 with repentance, I would say yes and amen. And this is precisely what those good works will look
00:05:32.060 like. I would say, whoa, hold it there, Pope. You know, that's, that's all right. That's, that's
00:05:38.000 Rome. Cut that out. Okay. So let's, let's not do penance. Let's not be heretics. Now here's the
00:05:43.320 deal with what you're saying. And I'm sure there's a myriad of other details that, you know,
00:05:47.480 variables that you could share, but based off of what you've written, um, me and my wife were told
00:05:52.580 that we had to prove repentance. So I'm going to interpret that giving your pastors the most
00:05:56.820 benefit of the doubt that I can. I'm going to interpret that as me and my wife were told by
00:06:01.640 our pastors that we needed to bear good works in keeping with repentance by homeschooling and by
00:06:08.040 my wife quitting her job to be in the home before we would be considered for membership. So first,
00:06:14.860 I would say I would disagree that homeschooling is the only option. I think it's a great option.
00:06:21.780 it might be even the best option. But I do not believe that I biblically can make an argument 0.99
00:06:27.220 that it's the only option, right? Brian Sauve and Eric Kahn and Dan Burkholder, the King's Hall
00:06:32.600 guys, you know, with their St. Brendan, I think, St. Brendan's Academy in Ogden, Utah, with their
00:06:40.260 church, and that's their classical Christian school. And they do great work, and I think
00:06:44.840 that's a great option. And Eric Kahn has actually made some decent arguments for why he thinks that
00:06:49.420 sending your kids to a classical Christian school is better than homeschooling.
00:06:56.140 And I think he has some, I think there's some merit to what he's saying. And I would push back
00:07:00.240 on some things and I would agree with some things. And then, you know, you've got, of course, Doug
00:07:04.000 Wilson with Logos, his school. So number one, I would say it doesn't have to be, so that's getting
00:07:10.400 a little bit more specific than I would like. I think we're drifting. I'm not saying that is
00:07:14.560 penance definitively, but we're getting a little, we're getting a little popish. You know what I
00:07:19.580 mean? So that's a little more popy than I would like. Let's move away from the poopy popy into
00:07:23.940 the, you know, into the more of the, let's let the Holy Spirit decide what those good works are.
00:07:28.380 But okay, then what can we say definitively? Well, we can say no public school. You can say
00:07:34.420 that strictly from the Bible. That's not penance, that's Bible. Okay. Here's the final thing that
00:07:40.400 I would say, though. In our current moment, cultural moment, where Christians have been
00:07:45.580 so deceived and lied to by pastors, Big Eva, Gospel Coalition, this and that, well, your kids 0.57
00:07:51.520 are missionaries, and where our economy has been destroyed by feminism, right? Nobody loves feminism 1.00
00:07:56.480 more than men, right? Especially rich men who can now pay their employees less, because when that 1.00
00:08:05.480 employee says, but I have a household of five, a wife and three kids. This isn't a livable wage.
00:08:11.100 The employer can just say, well, who gave you the audacity to think that you can have a single
00:08:17.100 income family? Why is your wife not working for me too? Feminism liberated wives from building up 1.00
00:08:23.920 the household of their man, namely their husband, to building up the house of the man, namely 1.00
00:08:32.360 corporate America. And women were foolish enough because women do tend to be deceived more easily 0.99
00:08:39.160 than men. They were foolish and men didn't guard women from this, just like Adam failing in the 1.00
00:08:43.880 garden. Women were deceived by the serpent, in this case, Leviathan, the state and culture and 1.00
00:08:49.560 all these kinds of things in Hollywood to thinking, I'm liberated from the shackles of children and
00:08:54.220 marriage and family. And women now are less happy and they've been shackled, liberated from the 0.95
00:09:01.200 shackle of a white picket fence in suburban America and then shackled to working for some 0.99
00:09:08.160 Fortune 500 company 60 hours a week and never getting to have children and watching their
00:09:14.500 womb shut down and their biological clock running out and then all of a sudden having
00:09:20.660 massive regrets, right? 1.00
00:09:21.860 So yay, feminism. 1.00
00:09:22.760 Okay, so feminism, but that's still a reality. 0.54
00:09:25.760 So because of the failure of the church, the failure of men not standing up and then perverse 0.86
00:09:30.840 men who love feminism because feminism serves men, doesn't serve women, serves men, wicked men. 0.99
00:09:37.300 Because of all those things, faithful men being cowards, wicked men lying, and then foolish women 0.99
00:09:45.200 taking the bait and being deceived and all these different things. And I would include the 19th 0.95
00:09:51.160 Amendment in that women's suffrage, all these things ruined our country. They did. They did. 1.00
00:09:56.800 and they ruined our economy
00:09:58.600 because everything's tied together, right?
00:10:00.040 It's not just, you know, independent compartments.
00:10:02.080 It's like spaghetti.
00:10:02.840 Everything affects everything.
00:10:04.000 So you ruin culture.
00:10:05.320 It affects politics.
00:10:06.220 It affects economics, all these different things
00:10:07.840 because of that.
00:10:09.240 And then that's just, that's the larger picture, right?
00:10:11.540 The last hundred years.
00:10:12.320 Well, let's just look now more narrow the last two years.
00:10:16.140 Joe Biden, inflation, you know, all these things.
00:10:18.520 It is really, really, really hard
00:10:20.420 for a family that hasn't had this theology
00:10:24.940 of understanding the importance of children
00:10:26.660 being raised with a Christian education and a single income home and all those kinds of things,
00:10:31.080 it's really hard to all of a sudden come into that theology, change your mind, but then practically
00:10:36.460 and fiscally, financially make it happen. And so I think we're just living in a time where there's
00:10:42.460 going to have to be a lot of grace. Not grace from pastors saying, oh, public school's fine.
00:10:47.120 No, but grace saying it's okay for it to take some time. So this is what I would do in my church.
00:10:54.720 I would say, number one, it doesn't have to be homeschool. It just has to be Christian school,
00:10:58.840 Christian homeschool or Christian school. But it can't be public school because that's
00:11:02.720 anti-Christ school. We don't send our kids to anti-Christian school. Okay. So it's got to be
00:11:07.420 Christian school. And the mom, the mother, she needs to be a keeper at home. That's Titus chapter 0.99
00:11:14.620 two. That doesn't mean she can't work like Proverbs 31, have her hand in this or hand in that.
00:11:18.700 But her chief ministry is working in the home with the children. So even if they use a 1.00
00:11:24.540 Christian classical school, and she has a few hours each day, it still needs to be home-oriented,
00:11:29.000 children-oriented. She's a lover of her children. She is a keeper at home, those kinds of things.
00:11:33.480 So that's all non-negotiable. But what I would say is it doesn't just have to be homeschool.
00:11:37.520 Let's broaden out. I think that's getting a little bit too specific. There can be other
00:11:42.160 Christian options of education. And then two, let's broaden the options of Christian education,
00:11:49.360 And then let's also, let's lengthen the time to make this happen.
00:11:53.460 So what I would require, if somebody was pursuing membership, I would say, if it came up and
00:12:01.400 I had knowledge about, oh, kids go to a public school and what, you know, what do you, and
00:12:05.760 they're like, yeah, the kids go to public school.
00:12:07.700 Our kids are missionaries.
00:12:08.600 You know, we view our kids as missionaries.
00:12:09.960 And it's like, well, okay, like, do you enlist your seven-year-old in the army?
00:12:14.260 Then why are you doing it in spiritual terms?
00:12:16.600 Why are you enlisting your seven-year-old in a spiritual war?
00:12:19.360 No, no, no. Kids are not missionaries. They're not soldiers. Kids are in training. And once
00:12:25.320 they're grown and the arrow is fully fashioned and sharpened, then we send them out. We don't
00:12:31.460 send them out when they're seven. We send them out when they're 18 or whatever, when they're men, 0.96
00:12:36.260 when they're women, when they're adults. And so I would correct them. And I'd say, no, no, no,
00:12:40.700 no. You got to change the way you view kids. Change the way you orient the home,
00:12:46.280 your view of the home, your kid needs a distinctly Christian education, and the state will not 0.99
00:12:51.460 provide that. So you can't do that. But then I would say, but there are multiple options. There's 0.99
00:12:56.140 homeschooling, there's hybrids, there's different chapters and classical conversations, and there's
00:13:00.640 Christian schools, and there's this and that, and this school of thought, and that school of thought,
00:13:03.860 and you can do logos online with curriculums that you can get, all these different things.
00:13:08.500 So there's a lot of different options. And because it's so hard right now, it's so hard,
00:13:13.600 because we've so sinned against the home, the household, and there are economic implications 0.82
00:13:20.520 to feminism, there's economic, you know, and political implications and all these different 1.00
00:13:26.340 things. What we would require for membership is that you simply agree. Not that you make it happen 0.99
00:13:33.140 before becoming a member, but you agree. You agree that it is right and good for women
00:13:37.740 to be oriented around the children and keepers at home. You believe that Christian children must 1.00
00:13:45.280 receive a Christian education and that they cannot be sent to public school. And you agree that for 1.00
00:13:50.520 the most part, you're trying, seeking for the husband to be a protective provider and work
00:13:55.680 towards, for the most part, a single income family. Husband working out of the home, wife working in
00:14:01.560 the home, some variants and things like that. There are details, and the kids getting a Christian
00:14:06.280 education. So first, let's change your theology. Repent of your bad theology. That would be
00:14:12.320 required. Repenting for your bad views. And then the good work in keeping with repentance wouldn't
00:14:18.680 be that you made everything happen and that you're no longer a two-income, because that takes time.
00:14:24.680 The good works in keeping with repentance is you repent of your bad theology,
00:14:29.160 and then the good works are that you're making a plan. It doesn't mean that you accomplished it all
00:14:35.180 overnight, but you're making a plan and that you're able to say to your pastor, we've got a
00:14:39.720 year plan or even a two-year plan to try to scale back, you know, for me to try to make more as a
00:14:46.660 husband for us to lower our budget as a family. And I got to go and be with my kids here in just
00:14:51.480 a second, but lower our budget as a family to live on less, to get mom out of work or at least
00:14:56.380 working part-time and for us to be able to do this with a kid's education so we don't have to do
00:15:00.740 public school. We've got a plan. And I would say, wonderful. Welcome into membership. Right? I think
00:15:07.040 that that's the way I would handle it. All right. All right. All right. Stop twisting my arm. I know
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