The NXR Podcast - August 25, 2022


QUESTIONS - Should Churches Enforce Dress Codes？

Hosted by
Joel Webbon Harrison Smith Antonio Griffith Dale Partridge Wewsley Todd Calvin Robinson
DAILY TRUTH - The Gospel： How God Makes Miserable People Happy In Him QUESTIONS - Can I Take A Personal Sabbath On A Tuesday？

Episode Stats


Length

12 minutes

Words per minute

193.4

Word count

2,415

Sentence count

144

Harmful content

Misogyny

15

sentences flagged

Toxicity

7

sentences flagged

Hate speech

20

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

In this episode, we tackle the controversial topic of whether or not women should be required to wear clothes in church. We discuss the difference between modesty and dress standards, and why it matters to God and His creation.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:00.000 Hey guys, real quick before we get started, I have a small request.
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00:00:21.960 Super Chat from Cookies11.
00:00:27.100 I could go for about like seven cookies right now.
00:00:29.900 11 is a lot, but I think I could, I could probably eat about seven cookies right now. It's lunchtime.
00:00:35.060 All right. My church says it's legalistic to put standards on how to dress at church. At the same
00:00:40.180 time, their standard is a one piece, uh, suit at the beach, a one piece bathing suit. Uh, what's
00:00:47.420 your thoughts and your thoughts on modesty in general? Good question. So basically it seems
00:00:52.860 like you're frustrated or maybe you're not frustrated, but you're just, you're just wanting
00:00:56.140 clarity on, uh, the idea that pull the question up one more time. Um, but on the idea that it
00:01:02.360 seems like your church doesn't have standards in one context, namely, uh, the gathering of the
00:01:07.240 saints on the Lord's day. Uh, but then they do have standards, dress standards, um, in another
00:01:13.160 context, um, at the beach, right? So my church says it's legalistic. So your church is saying
00:01:18.720 no standards on how to dress at church. So in this context, no standards. And this other context,
00:01:25.660 there are standards. So that's, yeah, I, I get your frustration. Uh, to be fair, I would be
00:01:32.180 gentle towards your pastor with that. Uh, because he's, he's not being consistent. And I think if
00:01:37.080 you, if you did it humbly, I don't know, I don't know, but if you did it humbly, I think you could
00:01:41.400 get him to, to back off of that and admit that he's not being consistent. Uh, because basically
00:01:46.780 he's saying, well, we don't have any standards in this context, but we do have standards in this
00:01:50.020 other, uh, context. And that's just a lie. If someone showed up naked to church, he would say
00:01:54.820 something, right? So we know he does have standards for Sunday. So he's saying, we don't
00:01:59.520 have standards for Sunday. Yes, you do. You can't show up naked to church. I'm pulling up a text.
00:02:06.840 First Corinthians, we're going to look at first Corinthians 11. So this deals with head coverings,
00:02:10.300 but I think also what we can, that's the primary issue. It deals with glory, the concept of glory,
00:02:16.240 the glory of man, the glory of Christ, the glory of women. It deals with submission. It deals with 0.98
00:02:20.820 angels and the nature of Lord's day worship and the gathering of the saints, all these things.
00:02:26.400 But it does also implicitly, I think, deal with just the idea of physical distinction between men
00:02:33.480 and women, especially, I think always, but especially on the Lord's day, that men and
00:02:39.740 women should look different. I don't have time to read it, but I would encourage you. So this 0.99
00:02:45.720 first Corinthians chapter 11, verse two through 16. Uh, but you could also look at Deuteronomy
00:02:50.900 where it says, um, that, um, it is an abomination, uh, for, um, a woman to put on men's garments, 0.99
00:02:59.540 right? So, so the Bible talks about, um, uh, men should dress like men and women should dress like 0.92
00:03:05.900 women. And you might say, well, but isn't that cultural, uh, to an extent? Yes. Um, I think that,
00:03:11.020 yeah, to an extent, there are cultural aspects of femininity and masculinity, but I think there
00:03:18.280 are also transcendent standards where it just, there are certain garments, certain ways of
00:03:25.800 dressing that regardless of what the culture says, simply would not be masculine because our
00:03:32.100 literal objective frame of men and the biological physical frame of women is different. And there
00:03:38.700 are some things that are conducive to that and therefore are always universally going to be
00:03:44.220 conducive to feminine dress and masculine dress. So your church, your pastor, he's just not being
00:03:49.820 honest with that or to give him the benefit of the doubt, he's just, he's overlooking it. Maybe
00:03:54.220 he's not being deceitful, but he's just being, I don't know, not particularly thoughtful. Of course
00:04:00.640 he has standards for church. He can't come naked to church. And I would go beyond that and say,
00:04:04.160 women should look like women at church and men should look like men at church, right? So if 0.90
00:04:10.900 somebody comes naked to my church, I'm going to kick them out. And now if they're willing to put 0.97
00:04:15.400 on clothes, then they could come back. But yeah, they can't stay in church and worship with us
00:04:21.360 naked. However, beyond that, it's not just they can't come naked. It's further than that. I'm
00:04:26.820 making an argument from the greater to the lesser, okay? So start with that. You can't come naked to
00:04:30.120 church. But also if a man comes to our church wearing a dress, we're going to correct that 0.72
00:04:34.760 also. Men can't wear dresses to church because men can't dress like women because it's an 0.99
00:04:41.060 abomination. And likewise, a woman doesn't need to come dress like a man. A woman doesn't need 1.00
00:04:46.560 to come in some power suit, you know, three piece suit. No, she needs to, she needs to look like a 1.00
00:04:50.860 woman. She doesn't need to come, you know, with, with her short hair, um, and, and trying to look 1.00
00:04:56.860 boyish, you know, and shoulder pads to try to, try to look like more of a masculine, 0.97
00:05:01.860 strong frame wearing a three piece suit. No, no, you need to come as a woman. You are a woman 1.00
00:05:07.860 come as a woman. Okay. So, uh, men need to dress like men. Women need to dress like women at the 1.00
00:05:13.300 beach. Same thing. Absolutely. Are, are there, are there certain ways of dressing, um, that are 1.00
00:05:19.540 objectively sinful, immodest? Of course there are. Now there can be a debate about where is the line
00:05:26.620 and we need to be careful with that, not overly legalistic. I don't think we need to be busting
00:05:30.720 out a yardstick at the door of our churches and measuring how many exact centimeters it is from
00:05:36.700 your shorts from the end of your fingertips. So certainly you can abuse that. You can be too
00:05:42.660 particular, but to go the complete opposite direction, pretend as though the Bible doesn't 0.98
00:05:47.940 speak to what we wear is ridiculous. The Bible speaks to all of life. That's where we'll hang 0.71
00:05:53.440 our hat, you know, in answering this question, that's where we'll land the plane. The Bible
00:05:57.740 speaks to everything. The Bible is not just inherent, it's sufficient, right? The Bible is
00:06:01.820 not just infallible and authoritative, it's sufficient. And not just for the way of salvation,
00:06:07.140 not just the Bible explains sufficiently how to be saved. No, the Bible says for life and godliness
00:06:12.380 to so that the man of God might be fully equipped for every good work. So what is the Bible
00:06:19.560 sufficient for? Not just the way of salvation, but all of life. The Bible itself says it's
00:06:25.040 sufficient for all of life. Is dressing, are clothes a part of life? Yeah. What about cooking?
00:06:32.460 What about diet? What about food? Is food religious? Yeah, food is religious. Go to India,
00:06:39.580 visit India and ask them if food is religious. I mean, think about Israel. Ask them, is food 0.96
00:06:46.260 religious? Do you eat pork, shellfish, right? Of course, food is religious. Everybody knows food
00:06:53.680 is religious. And even under the new covenant, as New Testament Christians, we believe that food
00:06:57.660 is religious. How we eat, right? So Jesus says nothing is unclean, right? So Jesus puts, you
00:07:03.680 know, he puts shellfish back on the menu, right? When he says, it's not what goes into a man's
00:07:07.900 mouth, but what comes out of his mouth that defiles him. And parenthetical statement right 1.00
00:07:12.060 there in the text, it says, and thus he declared all foods clean. However, not what you eat, but
00:07:16.780 how you eat. There's a Christian way to eat, right? Not necessarily a Christian menu, but even then we
00:07:24.240 can get, there are certain things that are good for your body and things that aren't, and we should
00:07:27.160 be good stewards of our body because of first Corinthians chapter six, your body is a temple
00:07:30.600 of the Holy Spirit, right? So there's all these different things. So even the, what we eat,
00:07:34.620 even under the new covenant, there's something to be said for that, but certainly how we eat,
00:07:38.960 whether you eat or drink, do it all for the glory of God. So there is a way of eating that glorifies
00:07:44.320 God. There's a way of eating that's worship. And so, so it is with clothing, right? There's a way
00:07:48.880 of wearing clothes that is right, what you wear and how you wear it and how you present yourself.
00:07:54.840 All the, the Bible speaks to these things. So, um, uh, yeah, it is not, I'll say it like this.
00:08:02.000 It is not inherently, inherently just, just objectively right out, right out of the gate,
00:08:07.060 legalistic to say that the Bible says some things about how we dress. And here are some of the
00:08:14.600 things that I think the Bible says. And I think that right now, the way you're dressed is
00:08:18.280 inappropriate. That is not an inherently simple statement. I'd have to hear what specifically did
00:08:23.240 they say? Because again, making an argument from the greater to the lesser, if a pastor is saying,
00:08:30.240 hey, you can't come naked to church, then I 100% agree with that pastor. And if he's saying,
00:08:36.780 Hey, uh, you can't be a woman dressed like a man at church. I also would 100% agree with that 1.00
00:08:42.000 pastor. Um, and to go to the beach cause your pastor's admitting, Oh, well, there is, there
00:08:46.920 are standards at the beach. Um, and the standard that you mentioned in your question is, you know,
00:08:51.120 that you should have a one piece bathing suit. I also agree with the pastor. And that's something
00:08:55.840 that me and my wife talked about early on in our marriage or before we were even married. I think
00:08:59.340 when we were engaged, you know, I let her know, Hey, I don't want you to wear two piece bathing
00:09:04.000 suits. Um, I, I don't think that, and it's not about what I want. It is a little bit if I become
00:09:09.160 your husband, but we were at the time I wasn't, I was, we were engaged, but I don't think that
00:09:12.880 God wants you to wear two piece bathing suits. And then once we were married and she started 0.98
00:09:16.080 doing it then, but once we were married, um, then she definitely, uh, submitted to my authority. 0.98
00:09:21.240 What? Oh my gosh. That's, that's patriarchy. You're saying as a husband, you tell your wife 1.00
00:09:27.260 what to wear? Yes. I'm her authority. Yeah. Uh-huh. The government tells your wife what to wear. 0.81
00:09:36.740 The government tells her she needs to put a mask around her face. The government says she needs to 0.99
00:09:41.860 inject foreign chemicals that we haven't even long-term tested into her body. 0.79
00:09:46.720 Not just the government, but let's talk about her employer, right? You send your wife to work, 0.97
00:09:51.160 you squishy, weak Christian. You send her to work. Is there a dress code at her work? 1.00
00:09:55.780 Can she wear whatever she wants to wear? Yeah. So the man at her job gets to tell her what to wear. 1.00
00:10:00.760 And the only time weak evangelical Christians object is not when a corporate man tells women
00:10:07.560 what to wear, not when the civil magistrate man tells women what to wear, but when a husband who
00:10:13.440 actually loves that woman tells her what to wear, then we object. So stupid. So hypocritical. 1.00
00:10:21.120 yeah I don't rule my house with with an iron fist I'm not totalitarian but I do have authority 0.97
00:10:27.880 headship actually does mean something it actually does mean something and my wife doesn't feel like
00:10:34.360 I'm ruling the house as a tyrant you know why because my wife I'm submitted to the word of God
00:10:39.620 and so is she and 99.9% of the time when I give her instruction she sees it as God's truth and
00:10:48.880 she joyfully submits to it. That's why every dude that I talk to who's patriarchal in his views,
00:10:56.920 every single one of them, the wife is also patriarchal and loves patriarchy and loves
00:11:02.240 her husband and is far more happy and far more joyful actually building up her home instead of 1.00
00:11:08.220 tearing it down with her feminism and building up some corporate man's home. And she's raising 0.66
00:11:12.560 children who fear the Lord and their dinner table is filled with laughter and joy. 1.00
00:11:16.060 feminism is such a lie, such a lie. So yes, it's okay to have dress codes in different contexts. 1.00
00:11:24.060 And I think it's okay. Husbands should ultimately do this with their wives and their daughters, but
00:11:28.080 if they're not, um, then yes, it's okay for the male elders of a church to say, yeah, there,
00:11:33.000 there are certain things that you can't wear at church. Um, and then for them, even from the
00:11:37.180 public to preach and there's certain things, not just at church, but in all of life, whether it
00:11:40.260 be at the beach or the mall, um, there are certain things that you shouldn't wear because the Bible
00:11:44.780 says so. And let's not get overly particular about where we draw the line. Let's be careful
00:11:49.640 with that. But in general, to say that there are principles, the Bible does speak to how we dress.
00:11:53.980 Of course it does. And all the way back to the question, the final thing I'll say is,
00:11:57.960 I agree with your pastor and what he's saying about the beach. And I think he just needs to
00:12:03.040 be consistent and admit that he also has standards for church. And if he says he doesn't, he's just,
00:12:08.440 he's either not being entirely honest or he's just not being completely thoughtful.
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