The NXR Podcast - August 25, 2022


QUESTIONS - Should Churches Enforce Dress Codes？

Topics
modesty in church dress standards dress codes in churches
Hosted by
Joel Webbon Harrison Smith Antonio Griffith Dale Partridge Wewsley Todd Calvin Robinson
DAILY TRUTH - The Gospel： How God Makes Miserable People Happy In Him QUESTIONS - Can I Take A Personal Sabbath On A Tuesday？

Episode Stats


Length

12 minutes

Words per minute

193.4

Word count

2,415

Sentence count

173

Harmful content

Misogyny

15

sentences flagged

Toxicity

7

sentences flagged

Hate speech

20

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

In this episode, we tackle the controversial topic of whether or not women should be required to wear clothes in church. We discuss the difference between modesty and dress standards, and why it matters to God and His creation.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:00 Hey guys, real quick before we get started, I have a small request.
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00:00:21 Super Chat from Cookies11.
00:00:27 I could go for about like seven cookies right now.
00:00:29 11 is a lot, but I think I could, I could probably eat about seven cookies right now. It's lunchtime.
00:00:35 All right. My church says it's legalistic to put standards on how to dress at church. At the same
00:00:40 time, their standard is a one piece, uh, suit at the beach, a one piece bathing suit. Uh, what's
00:00:47 your thoughts and your thoughts on modesty in general? Good question. So basically it seems
00:00:52 like you're frustrated or maybe you're not frustrated, but you're just, you're just wanting
00:00:56 clarity on, uh, the idea that pull the question up one more time. Um, but on the idea that it
00:01:02 seems like your church doesn't have standards in one context, namely, uh, the gathering of the
00:01:07 saints on the Lord's day. Uh, but then they do have standards, dress standards, um, in another
00:01:13 context, um, at the beach, right? So my church says it's legalistic. So your church is saying
00:01:18 no standards on how to dress at church. So in this context, no standards. And this other context,
00:01:25 there are standards. So that's, yeah, I, I get your frustration. Uh, to be fair, I would be
00:01:32 gentle towards your pastor with that. Uh, because he's, he's not being consistent. And I think if
00:01:37 you, if you did it humbly, I don't know, I don't know, but if you did it humbly, I think you could
00:01:41 get him to, to back off of that and admit that he's not being consistent. Uh, because basically
00:01:46 he's saying, well, we don't have any standards in this context, but we do have standards in this
00:01:50 other, uh, context. And that's just a lie. If someone showed up naked to church, he would say
00:01:54 something, right? So we know he does have standards for Sunday. So he's saying, we don't
00:01:59 have standards for Sunday. Yes, you do. You can't show up naked to church. I'm pulling up a text.
00:02:06 First Corinthians, we're going to look at first Corinthians 11. So this deals with head coverings,
00:02:10 but I think also what we can, that's the primary issue. It deals with glory, the concept of glory,
00:02:16 the glory of man, the glory of Christ, the glory of women. It deals with submission. It deals with 0.98
00:02:20 angels and the nature of Lord's day worship and the gathering of the saints, all these things.
00:02:26 But it does also implicitly, I think, deal with just the idea of physical distinction between men
00:02:33 and women, especially, I think always, but especially on the Lord's day, that men and
00:02:39 women should look different. I don't have time to read it, but I would encourage you. So this 0.99
00:02:45 first Corinthians chapter 11, verse two through 16. Uh, but you could also look at Deuteronomy
00:02:50 where it says, um, that, um, it is an abomination, uh, for, um, a woman to put on men's garments, 0.99
00:02:59 right? So, so the Bible talks about, um, uh, men should dress like men and women should dress like 0.92
00:03:05 women. And you might say, well, but isn't that cultural, uh, to an extent? Yes. Um, I think that,
00:03:11 yeah, to an extent, there are cultural aspects of femininity and masculinity, but I think there
00:03:18 are also transcendent standards where it just, there are certain garments, certain ways of
00:03:25 dressing that regardless of what the culture says, simply would not be masculine because our
00:03:32 literal objective frame of men and the biological physical frame of women is different. And there
00:03:38 are some things that are conducive to that and therefore are always universally going to be
00:03:44 conducive to feminine dress and masculine dress. So your church, your pastor, he's just not being
00:03:49 honest with that or to give him the benefit of the doubt, he's just, he's overlooking it. Maybe
00:03:54 he's not being deceitful, but he's just being, I don't know, not particularly thoughtful. Of course
00:04:00 he has standards for church. He can't come naked to church. And I would go beyond that and say,
00:04:04 women should look like women at church and men should look like men at church, right? So if 0.90
00:04:10 somebody comes naked to my church, I'm going to kick them out. And now if they're willing to put 0.97
00:04:15 on clothes, then they could come back. But yeah, they can't stay in church and worship with us
00:04:21 naked. However, beyond that, it's not just they can't come naked. It's further than that. I'm
00:04:26 making an argument from the greater to the lesser, okay? So start with that. You can't come naked to
00:04:30 church. But also if a man comes to our church wearing a dress, we're going to correct that 0.72
00:04:34 also. Men can't wear dresses to church because men can't dress like women because it's an 0.99
00:04:41 abomination. And likewise, a woman doesn't need to come dress like a man. A woman doesn't need 1.00
00:04:46 to come in some power suit, you know, three piece suit. No, she needs to, she needs to look like a 1.00
00:04:50 woman. She doesn't need to come, you know, with, with her short hair, um, and, and trying to look 1.00
00:04:56 boyish, you know, and shoulder pads to try to, try to look like more of a masculine, 0.97
00:05:01 strong frame wearing a three piece suit. No, no, you need to come as a woman. You are a woman 1.00
00:05:07 come as a woman. Okay. So, uh, men need to dress like men. Women need to dress like women at the 1.00
00:05:13 beach. Same thing. Absolutely. Are, are there, are there certain ways of dressing, um, that are 1.00
00:05:19 objectively sinful, immodest? Of course there are. Now there can be a debate about where is the line
00:05:26 and we need to be careful with that, not overly legalistic. I don't think we need to be busting
00:05:30 out a yardstick at the door of our churches and measuring how many exact centimeters it is from
00:05:36 your shorts from the end of your fingertips. So certainly you can abuse that. You can be too
00:05:42 particular, but to go the complete opposite direction, pretend as though the Bible doesn't 0.98
00:05:47 speak to what we wear is ridiculous. The Bible speaks to all of life. That's where we'll hang 0.71
00:05:53 our hat, you know, in answering this question, that's where we'll land the plane. The Bible
00:05:57 speaks to everything. The Bible is not just inherent, it's sufficient, right? The Bible is
00:06:01 not just infallible and authoritative, it's sufficient. And not just for the way of salvation,
00:06:07 not just the Bible explains sufficiently how to be saved. No, the Bible says for life and godliness
00:06:12 to so that the man of God might be fully equipped for every good work. So what is the Bible
00:06:19 sufficient for? Not just the way of salvation, but all of life. The Bible itself says it's
00:06:25 sufficient for all of life. Is dressing, are clothes a part of life? Yeah. What about cooking?
00:06:32 What about diet? What about food? Is food religious? Yeah, food is religious. Go to India,
00:06:39 visit India and ask them if food is religious. I mean, think about Israel. Ask them, is food 0.96
00:06:46 religious? Do you eat pork, shellfish, right? Of course, food is religious. Everybody knows food
00:06:53 is religious. And even under the new covenant, as New Testament Christians, we believe that food
00:06:57 is religious. How we eat, right? So Jesus says nothing is unclean, right? So Jesus puts, you
00:07:03 know, he puts shellfish back on the menu, right? When he says, it's not what goes into a man's
00:07:07 mouth, but what comes out of his mouth that defiles him. And parenthetical statement right 1.00
00:07:12 there in the text, it says, and thus he declared all foods clean. However, not what you eat, but
00:07:16 how you eat. There's a Christian way to eat, right? Not necessarily a Christian menu, but even then we
00:07:24 can get, there are certain things that are good for your body and things that aren't, and we should
00:07:27 be good stewards of our body because of first Corinthians chapter six, your body is a temple
00:07:30 of the Holy Spirit, right? So there's all these different things. So even the, what we eat,
00:07:34 even under the new covenant, there's something to be said for that, but certainly how we eat,
00:07:38 whether you eat or drink, do it all for the glory of God. So there is a way of eating that glorifies
00:07:44 God. There's a way of eating that's worship. And so, so it is with clothing, right? There's a way
00:07:48 of wearing clothes that is right, what you wear and how you wear it and how you present yourself.
00:07:54 All the, the Bible speaks to these things. So, um, uh, yeah, it is not, I'll say it like this.
00:08:02 It is not inherently, inherently just, just objectively right out, right out of the gate,
00:08:07 legalistic to say that the Bible says some things about how we dress. And here are some of the
00:08:14 things that I think the Bible says. And I think that right now, the way you're dressed is
00:08:18 inappropriate. That is not an inherently simple statement. I'd have to hear what specifically did
00:08:23 they say? Because again, making an argument from the greater to the lesser, if a pastor is saying,
00:08:30 hey, you can't come naked to church, then I 100% agree with that pastor. And if he's saying,
00:08:36 Hey, uh, you can't be a woman dressed like a man at church. I also would 100% agree with that 1.00
00:08:42 pastor. Um, and to go to the beach cause your pastor's admitting, Oh, well, there is, there
00:08:46 are standards at the beach. Um, and the standard that you mentioned in your question is, you know,
00:08:51 that you should have a one piece bathing suit. I also agree with the pastor. And that's something
00:08:55 that me and my wife talked about early on in our marriage or before we were even married. I think
00:08:59 when we were engaged, you know, I let her know, Hey, I don't want you to wear two piece bathing
00:09:04 suits. Um, I, I don't think that, and it's not about what I want. It is a little bit if I become
00:09:09 your husband, but we were at the time I wasn't, I was, we were engaged, but I don't think that
00:09:12 God wants you to wear two piece bathing suits. And then once we were married and she started 0.98
00:09:16 doing it then, but once we were married, um, then she definitely, uh, submitted to my authority. 0.98
00:09:21 What? Oh my gosh. That's, that's patriarchy. You're saying as a husband, you tell your wife 1.00
00:09:27 what to wear? Yes. I'm her authority. Yeah. Uh-huh. The government tells your wife what to wear. 0.81
00:09:36 The government tells her she needs to put a mask around her face. The government says she needs to 0.99
00:09:41 inject foreign chemicals that we haven't even long-term tested into her body. 0.79
00:09:46 Not just the government, but let's talk about her employer, right? You send your wife to work, 0.97
00:09:51 you squishy, weak Christian. You send her to work. Is there a dress code at her work? 1.00
00:09:55 Can she wear whatever she wants to wear? Yeah. So the man at her job gets to tell her what to wear. 1.00
00:10:00 And the only time weak evangelical Christians object is not when a corporate man tells women
00:10:07 what to wear, not when the civil magistrate man tells women what to wear, but when a husband who
00:10:13 actually loves that woman tells her what to wear, then we object. So stupid. So hypocritical. 1.00
00:10:21 yeah I don't rule my house with with an iron fist I'm not totalitarian but I do have authority 0.97
00:10:27 headship actually does mean something it actually does mean something and my wife doesn't feel like
00:10:34 I'm ruling the house as a tyrant you know why because my wife I'm submitted to the word of God
00:10:39 and so is she and 99.9% of the time when I give her instruction she sees it as God's truth and
00:10:48 she joyfully submits to it. That's why every dude that I talk to who's patriarchal in his views,
00:10:56 every single one of them, the wife is also patriarchal and loves patriarchy and loves
00:11:02 her husband and is far more happy and far more joyful actually building up her home instead of 1.00
00:11:08 tearing it down with her feminism and building up some corporate man's home. And she's raising 0.66
00:11:12 children who fear the Lord and their dinner table is filled with laughter and joy. 1.00
00:11:16 feminism is such a lie, such a lie. So yes, it's okay to have dress codes in different contexts. 1.00
00:11:24 And I think it's okay. Husbands should ultimately do this with their wives and their daughters, but
00:11:28 if they're not, um, then yes, it's okay for the male elders of a church to say, yeah, there,
00:11:33 there are certain things that you can't wear at church. Um, and then for them, even from the
00:11:37 public to preach and there's certain things, not just at church, but in all of life, whether it
00:11:40 be at the beach or the mall, um, there are certain things that you shouldn't wear because the Bible
00:11:44 says so. And let's not get overly particular about where we draw the line. Let's be careful
00:11:49 with that. But in general, to say that there are principles, the Bible does speak to how we dress.
00:11:53 Of course it does. And all the way back to the question, the final thing I'll say is,
00:11:57 I agree with your pastor and what he's saying about the beach. And I think he just needs to
00:12:03 be consistent and admit that he also has standards for church. And if he says he doesn't, he's just,
00:12:08 he's either not being entirely honest or he's just not being completely thoughtful.
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