The NXR Podcast - QUESTIONS - What Do You Think About “The Chosen” TV Series？

00:00:00.000 Hey guys, real quick, before we get started, I have a small request.

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00:00:21.200 Our Catherine D, she writes this,

00:00:24.380 What is your opinion on Christian entertainment like the chosen TV series,

00:00:28.780 depictions of Jesus violating the second commandment. Recently, I heard the stance

00:00:34.560 that any visual depiction of Jesus is a violation of the second commandment,

00:00:39.520 and I'm trying to think through this issue. Also, would you be wary of any play slash movie based

00:00:46.680 on a Bible story, even if it did not include Jesus, an image of Jesus? Great question. Thanks,

00:00:52.820 Catherine. I'll do my best to answer it. So, full disclosure, I have not seen the chosen series.

00:00:58.620 I've not seen a single episode. I think I've seen a clip or two as it's circulated on the

00:01:03.820 internet. I'm just not really interested. I don't know. I know that a lot of people like it. Maybe

00:01:10.120 I should watch it eventually one of these days, just so that I can address questions like this

00:01:14.680 one. I have a few people reach out and ask, but typically I just don't really watch films or

00:01:23.560 shows or things like that, that are narrations trying to illustrate Bible stories, you know,

00:01:31.080 like the Noah movie that came out, I think it was with Russell Crowe. I never watched it. So I'm

00:01:37.560 just not interested in those things, primarily because I think they're usually done theologically

00:01:42.920 poorly. I would rather just watch a fantasy or story that doesn't relate to Christ, at least

00:01:50.620 It's not directly, it's not trying to, it's not trying to read, depict the story of the

00:01:57.720 Bible and those narratives, something that's just, you know, like Lord of the Rings, for

00:02:02.760 instance, you know, I'd rather watch Lord of the Rings that I think has Christian metaphors

00:02:07.860 and undertones and principles and all those kinds of things.

00:02:10.660 I would much rather, if I'm going to watch something entertainment, then I usually am

00:02:15.700 not watching it for educational value.

00:02:18.680 I'm not watching some kind of film for education.

00:02:22.660 I'm doing it strictly for entertainment, usually with my family, things that I've screened

00:02:27.700 that I think are appropriate.

00:02:28.740 So all that being said, in terms of the second commandment, that's a really, I mean, people

00:02:33.980 today think that that's crazy, but I appreciate the question because it's not crazy.

00:02:39.740 That has been the position for a long time down throughout church history.

00:02:45.120 I mean, even J.I. Packer in his famous book, Knowing God, right?

00:02:50.060 This is really recent.

00:02:51.540 J.I. Packer just passed away recently.

00:02:53.480 His book, Knowing God, talks about the second commandment, right?

00:02:57.260 So for those of you who are unfamiliar, the second commandment, the first commandment is

00:03:00.960 thou shalt have no other gods before me in Exodus chapter 20.

00:03:04.180 The second commandment is that thou shall not make any graven images.

00:03:09.000 It goes on to say anything, you know, in heaven above or the earth beneath or in the water

00:03:14.180 under the earth, that God calls us to worship him and to seek him, to walk by faith. That's the

00:03:22.860 idea. And it's important because, you know, I was talking about this yesterday on the Lord's Day

00:03:26.640 with my congregation, but it's important to recognize that the first and the second commandment

00:03:31.500 are not redundant. It's not merely a repetition of the same commandment just said two separate

00:03:39.860 times in two different ways. And I think a lot of people think that. They think that, you know,

00:03:44.660 the first commandment, have no other gods before me. Don't worship idols. The second commandment,

00:03:50.480 also, in case you missed it, don't worship idols. That's how a lot of Christians read the first and

00:03:55.360 second commandment. But that's not what's being communicated. The idolatry, one prime example,

00:04:03.680 would be when Israel, Aaron actually did this under Israel, the people, their motivation,

00:04:09.860 Aaron made for them a golden calf. And the golden calf, what a lot of Christians don't recognize,

00:04:15.620 is that the golden calf was not meant to be some other God, another God other than Yahweh,

00:04:23.780 Israel's covenantal God. No, the golden calf was meant to be Yahweh. This is the God. It said,

00:04:31.240 this is the God that led you up out of Egypt. And they're not turning their back entirely per se

00:04:36.740 on the God of Israel, Yahweh, the true God, and pretending as though some other God delivered

00:04:43.540 them from bondage and slavery. No, they're saying this is the same God and this is what he looks

00:04:49.640 like. So the second commandment is not just a reiteration of the first commandment. The first

00:04:55.780 commandment, have no other gods before me. Don't have other gods. The second commandment is not

00:05:00.560 simply saying, oh, also don't have other gods. No, we already covered that in the first commandment.

00:05:05.360 So the second commandment is really, it's a prohibition, not on other gods, but making the

00:05:11.160 one true God in a visible image, translating the one true God into a visible image. So one of the

00:05:19.260 things that comes up would be John chapter four, Jesus has a discourse with the Samaritan woman.

00:05:23.880 She asked him about the place of worship. And really, it seems as though her motivation is to

00:05:28.680 kind of sidetrack the conversation away from her sin, because he's just, you know, called out her

00:05:34.520 adultery. And then, so she says, oh, I perceive you are a prophet. So let's talk about something

00:05:39.500 else besides my sin. You know, in which place should we worship? So she asks a question about

00:05:44.980 worship and she's emphasizing the element of where, where should we worship? On the mountain,

00:05:51.380 Mount Sinai, or should we worship at the temple as the Jews do? And Jesus says, I tell you the

00:05:56.380 truth, the time is coming when the true worshipers will neither worship here or at the temple,

00:06:01.960 but rather they will worship God who is spirit, they will worship him in spirit and in truth.

00:06:07.260 And so what Jesus says among several things, at least one, is that God is spirit. Both the

00:06:12.000 Westminster Confession of Faith and the 1689 Confession of Faith in terms of doctrine of God,

00:06:17.660 theology proper, speak of God in terms of his essence, and they say that God is a most pure

00:06:24.020 spirit without body, parts, and passions. Without body, parts, and passions. And so God is spirit,

00:06:31.620 Therefore, we worship him in spirit and in truth.

00:06:35.060 Meaning that when it comes to our worship, where we worship is not the most significant

00:06:39.500 question.

00:06:40.620 The significant questions, or at least two, is number one, who do we worship?

00:06:45.420 Are we actually worshiping the true God, the triune God, the God of scripture as he has

00:06:50.080 revealed himself in his word through special revelation?

00:06:53.200 Are we worshiping the right God?

00:06:55.080 Who are we worshiping and how?

00:06:57.200 Not where, but who and how?

00:07:00.140 How are we worshiping?

00:07:01.140 Well, in spirit and in truth. In that context, the word spirit is referring to passion, holy zeal, righteous affection, love, adoration.

00:07:13.520 So we worship in spirit, meaning we worship with sincerity. We worship with authenticity.

00:07:19.520 We worship with real affection and love, you know, in a way that is genuine with passion.

00:07:26.280 but we don't just worship with passion but the passion that we worship god with that we should

00:07:32.140 worship him with in spirit must also be balanced by truth and that means as the confessions go on

00:07:38.880 to say that we don't worship god according to the devices of men meaning that our lord's day

00:07:46.020 worship the gathering of the saints on the lord's day for the administering of the ordinary means

00:07:51.600 of grace publicly preaching the word publicly praying the word publicly singing the words

00:07:56.220 psalms, hymns, spiritual songs, and publicly seeing the word, S-E-E-I-N-G, seeing the word

00:08:02.220 in the only images that are actually prescribed under the new covenant by Christ himself being

00:08:07.780 baptism and the Lord's Supper. That's the only thing that we see in the administering of these

00:08:14.160 ordinary means of grace on the Lord's day with the gathered saints and the ecclesia, the assembly

00:08:19.740 of the church, with this, we are to worship in spirit and in truth. So not just with passion,

00:08:27.840 but also according to what God has clearly prescribed. Truth, God's truth, not according to

00:08:34.360 the devices of men, not according to pragmatism, not seeker-sensitive worship. Our worship

00:08:43.500 is not a blank canvas for man's own creative license. That's not what worship is about.

00:08:51.200 Worship is dictated by God. So the who and the how are very important. And how we worship,

00:09:00.700 that stems from who we worship. And who is God, the triune God? Well, he is a most pure spirit

00:09:08.760 without body, parts, and passions. Now, the controversy is that the second member of the

00:09:16.000 Trinity is not merely a most pure spirit without body, parts, and passions, but the second member

00:09:24.280 of the Trinity actually is incarnate. He actually took on flesh, and he is the forever God-man,

00:09:31.540 meaning that he did not merely take on flesh during the time of his earthly ministry and then

00:09:36.400 depart from that flesh, but he was resurrected in the flesh. It was a bodily resurrection.

00:09:43.760 And so this flesh has now been glorified in Jesus in the flesh as the God-man is seated,

00:09:51.040 literally at the right hand of the Father, the majesty on high. And so the second member of the

00:09:56.780 Trinity does in fact have flesh. But all the way back to J.I. Packer, he would say that the second

00:10:02.760 commandment that forbids images, taking the true God, not the first commandment, don't worship

00:10:09.240 other gods, but the second commandment, taking the true God, but making him visible. J.I. Packer

00:10:14.780 and commentating on this would include images of Jesus. Even R.C. Sproul, right? Talking about

00:10:21.120 guys who are recent. R.C. Sproul, if you look at his children's books, which I have one right here,

00:10:27.000 some of you have asked, what is that book on your pulpit in the background? This is the

00:10:31.780 Lightlings, The Lightlings by R.C. Sproul. It's a great children's book. My kids love it. I have

00:10:36.900 two copies, one to sit behind me and do nothing, but look pretty. And then another copy that I

00:10:42.820 actually use and read to my children. They love the book. But in all of R.C. Sproul's books,

00:10:48.980 there's no pictures of Jesus. And one would be, let's see, specifically, I think it's

00:10:54.860 Dave something. It's about a donkey, a donkey who carried a king or something like that.

00:11:00.680 Um, but the, the, the protagonist, this donkey, his name is Dave, and he's the donkey who gets

00:11:07.480 chosen by the apostles to go and carry Jesus, um, with Palm Sunday, you know, before his

00:11:14.020 crucifixion where people are saying, Hosanna, Hosanna, blessed is he who comes in the name of

00:11:18.360 the Lord. Um, and so this donkey carries a King and it shows a picture. There's an illustration

00:11:23.540 of the book of the donkey coming into a crowded area where everyone is laying down palm branches

00:11:29.320 and laying down their tunics for the donkey to go on.

00:11:32.720 And the picture shows the head of the donkey entering the scene,

00:11:36.900 but Jesus is out of the picture.

00:11:41.220 Your view of Jesus is obstructed.

00:11:44.860 And so that's even R.C. Sproul in a children's book saying,

00:11:49.020 I'm not going to have an image of Jesus.

00:11:52.620 And the reason why, I'll kind of land the plane with this.

00:11:55.640 the reason why is because Jesus is the God-man. Jesus, he is God in the flesh, right? John chapter

00:12:05.480 one, verse one, in the beginning was the word, the word was with God and the word was God. And then

00:12:10.280 verse 14, it says, and the word took on flesh and tabernacled, dwelled among us. So this word,

00:12:18.820 this eternal Logos, the Word who is God, the second member of the Trinity, and was with God

00:12:26.040 from the beginning without beginning. He is the eternal second member of the Trinity, the Son of

00:12:30.180 God. This God did in fact take on flesh. But when Jesus took on flesh, he did not rid himself of his

00:12:37.840 divinity. So who Jesus currently is at the right hand of the Father, the majesty on high, is the

00:12:45.280 God-man. He is fully man, but he is also fully God. And a picture, a physical image of Jesus

00:12:53.420 would only be able to capture, as it were, the man, but not the God-man. It could capture his

00:13:02.160 flesh, his humanity. It could not capture his divinity. In other words, it's not Jesus,

00:13:08.440 because Jesus is not merely a man. He is the God man. He is the God man. So any depiction

00:13:16.820 of Jesus, physical depiction of Jesus in his flesh is depicting for us someone other than

00:13:23.800 Jesus. It is depicting the flesh of Jesus apart from the divinity of Jesus, which ultimately

00:13:29.880 misses the whole person of Jesus. The person of Jesus is fully God and fully man. Now to actually

00:13:38.900 witness Jesus, to see Jesus as the disciples did, and as we will, 1 John says, when we see him,

00:13:44.640 we will be like him. So to stand before him on that final day, we will be witnessing,

00:13:49.260 we will be observing, physically seeing Jesus, both his divinity and his humanity. We will be

00:13:55.960 seen the whole God-man, not half of Jesus, but all of Jesus. When we see him, we will be like him,

00:14:03.780 for we will see him as he is, 1 John goes on to say. We're not going to see half of him or part

00:14:09.440 of him. We're going to see all of him. For now, we see, you know, Paul writes to the Corinthians,

00:14:15.140 we see dimly as in a mirror, but soon we will see fully, you know, we will fully know, even as we

00:14:19.860 are fully known. And so that's the problem with depicting Jesus. So certainly we shouldn't have

00:14:25.420 images of God the Father, because God the Father is not visible. The Bible is clear that he is the

00:14:32.280 invisible God. He is a most pure spirit without body, parts, and passions, as it pertains to the

00:14:38.400 third member of the Trinity. The Holy Spirit is, of course, a most pure spirit without body, parts,

00:14:43.220 and passions, and he proceeds from the Father and the Son. So, both the Father and the Spirit

00:14:48.760 our spirit, without body, without parts, without passions. Jesus has a body, but for it to be

00:14:56.700 truly the person of Jesus, the second person of the Trinity, it has to be his whole person.

00:15:03.180 So Jesus has a body, but Jesus does not only have a body. He is not just man, he is the God-man.

00:15:10.400 It is full divinity and full humanity, and there is no way to depict Jesus as he is, a true depiction of Jesus, without literally standing before him and actually seeing him in the flesh.

00:15:25.500 any illustration of Jesus, a statue or an image or a painting, any image of Jesus would only convey

00:15:34.900 his humanity and not his deity, which means, all that to say, which means it's not an accurate

00:15:43.440 image of Jesus. And so the reason why we would ban, we would have a prohibition against images

00:15:49.940 of God, even the second member of the Trinity who does have a body, we would ban images of even

00:15:55.800 Christ is because we're banning inaccurate images. Let me say that again because I think that's what

00:16:01.840 people miss. What we're banning is inaccurate images of God, including inaccurate images of

00:16:08.980 Jesus. And any physical image of Jesus is inaccurate because it is incomplete. It is only

00:16:16.580 half, as it were, of Jesus. It is his humanity, but not his divinity. So yes, I would agree with

00:16:24.640 J.I. Packer. I would agree with R.C. Sproul. I would agree with the Westminster Confession,

00:16:29.840 the 1689 London Baptist Confession, and certainly would agree with the church fathers going back.

00:16:35.420 This was never really an issue until more so recently. And when I say recently, I mean a few

00:16:41.900 hundred years or so, I would not advocate for images of Christ. And then in general, to your

00:16:48.120 question, Catherine, what about things that don't have an image of Christ, but it's still a Bible

00:16:52.680 story, an Old Testament Bible story about Moses or something like that. I'm not horribly against

00:16:59.120 it, but again, I just, in the same way, this is what I would say, in the same way that you should

00:17:04.340 be discerning and selective about what theological books you read and what YouTube channel you watch,

00:17:12.980 you know, what podcasts you listen to. I think those same measurements, whatever you're using

00:17:20.400 to select what content you consume about God, theology, theological content, you should have

00:17:27.940 those same measurements in place for videos about the Bible. And so for me, I don't know a lot of

00:17:36.600 sources that make videos about the Bible, about biblical things that have good doctrine. That's

00:17:45.600 what I mean. I don't listen to every podcast that claims to be Christian. I don't listen to every

00:17:50.400 preacher that claims to be Christian. I don't read every book that's written by someone who claims

00:17:54.860 to be Christian. I'm very selective in what sources I deem as credible. I will listen to

00:18:01.960 this guy's podcast because he's proven himself to be sound in the faith, sound in doctrine.

00:18:08.180 I will read this guy's book. I will go to this person's conference. You know, in the same way

00:18:14.080 that we're really selective, and I'm sure you are, Catherine, and most of our listeners are probably

00:18:18.840 very selective about who they listen to. I just would say that if it's about the Bible,

00:18:24.180 It is theological.

00:18:25.600 All things are theological, but especially something about the Bible.

00:18:29.260 And so whatever kind of measurements you have put in place, guardrails for selecting your

00:18:34.360 theological content for podcasts or books or conferences or this, that, and the other,

00:18:40.040 you should have that same kind of discernment when it comes to video.

00:18:44.740 Thanks so much for listening.

00:18:45.840 But real quick, before you go, do us a small favor, take a moment and leave us a five-star

00:18:51.100 review if you enjoyed the show.

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00:19:00.500 Thanks so much.

The NXR Podcast - June 23, 2022

QUESTIONS - What Do You Think About “The Chosen” TV Series？

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