The NXR Podcast - October 13, 2022


QUESTIONS - What’s The Difference Between Calvinistic & Reformed Baptists ｜ John MacArthur & Voddie Baucham

Topics
evangelical vs. Catholic gospel Sabbath and covenant theology
Hosted by
Joel Webbon Harrison Smith Antonio Griffith Dale Partridge Wewsley Todd Calvin Robinson
Mentioned
Sabbath Reformed Baptist John MacArthur Jamie White Votie Bauckham Calvinistic Baptist Joel Webin Reformed Presbyterian Roman Catholicism Billy Graham Jesus Christ Joseph Boot Gary DeMar Calvinist
DAILY TRUTH - The Connection Between Doctrine & Character DAILY TRUTH - What Makes For A Good Sermon？

Episode Stats


Length

17 minutes

Words per minute

149.91

Word count

2,599

Sentence count

171

Harmful content

Toxicity

1

sentences flagged

Hate speech

5

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

In this episode, we discuss the differences between Calvinist and Evangelical Christianity, the difference between Catholics and Evangelicals, and why Catholics and evangelicals do not believe the same gospel as Evangelicals do. We also discuss the role of evangelicals in the culture, and the influence of Billy Graham.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:00 Hey guys, real quick before we get started, I have a small request.
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00:00:21 What's the difference between the Reformed Baptist denomination and Evangelical denomination?
00:00:27 can one be Calvinist and evangelical? Okay. Leave the question up there for just a moment.
00:00:35 So I'm going to do like what I just said. So Jesus, you know, people would ask him a question,
00:00:38 he would decline to answer their question, and then he would answer another question that he
00:00:43 thought was actually more pertinent. I'm going to do a little bit of that with you, sir, Ian,
00:00:46 but not completely. I want to honor your question as much as I can, but I think this is what you
00:00:50 mean. Okay. So, and maybe you don't mean this, and maybe it's just a misconception, just something
00:00:56 just an area of ignorance. So let me dispel some of that. Evangelicalism is not really a
00:01:04 denomination. So when people say evangelical Christians or evangelicals, what they're
00:01:11 actually talking about is an overarching collection of multiple denominations. And what constitutes an
00:01:18 evangelical Christian at the individual level or an evangelical church, speaking of local churches,
00:01:25 or an evangelical denomination is, does this church or individual person or denomination,
00:01:36 do they preach an Orthodox Christian gospel? So evangelicals, right? And it's tough because
00:01:44 with many words, there's debates about how to define that. But in recent history, in general,
00:01:52 the way that the word evangelical has been defined and understood has been any denomination,
00:01:59 multiple denominations, any denomination, any local church, any individual person
00:02:04 who believes that we are saved by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone.
00:02:13 Okay, so some would maybe differ with what I'm about to say, but most evangelicals would agree
00:02:18 that Catholic is not evangelical, Roman Catholicism. So it'd be evangelicals and Catholics.
00:02:26 That's one of the things that Billy Graham did in his later years that I would reject. I think this
00:02:31 was wrong. I don't like that he did this, but towards the end of his ministry, he had a big
00:02:37 push for Catholics and evangelicals to unite. Now, it's one thing for Catholics and evangelicals to
00:02:44 unite on, for instance, the issue of the sanctity of life, because we believe the exact same thing.
00:02:51 But it's another for evangelicals and Catholics to unite in the work of evangelism, because that
00:02:57 has to do with the gospel. And Roman Catholics do not believe the same gospel that we do as 0.88
00:03:07 evangelical Christians. They believe another gospel. I love Roman Catholics. I love them 0.95
00:03:14 immensely. I am grateful for a lot of what they do, but they do believe another gospel. They
00:03:21 don't believe that we are saved by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, according
00:03:29 to the scripture alone, to the glory of God alone. Sola, right? The Latin word sola, alone.
00:03:37 That's the contention. There's the rub. The Council of Trent still is the current standard
00:03:44 for Roman Catholicism. This has never been undone. This has never been overridden. The Council of
00:03:51 Trent anathematized that we are saved by grace through faith in Christ, according to the scripture,
00:03:58 to the glory of God alone. And that is the gospel. So what I'm saying is this, that the Council of
00:04:04 Trent, which is still the official position of the Roman Catholic Church to this day,
00:04:10 anathematized, that is, it cursed, said, let him be accursed. And what did they curse?
00:04:18 The gospel of Jesus Christ. That's a big deal. I love Catholics. And I am partnering in some
00:04:26 capacities with Catholics when it comes to political, cultural issues. And yet, no matter 0.99
00:04:30 how cozy I might get, if I ever stop saying what I'm saying in this video right now, 0.97
00:04:37 then call me out for being a hypocrite. I don't want to get so cozy on some cultural issues where
00:04:44 we can agree that I stop preaching in love the truth to our Roman Catholic friends that what
00:04:53 they believe is another gospel. It's not another presentation or another version. No, it is a
00:05:02 whole other alternative gospel. It is not the gospel. Okay. So usually when you think of,
00:05:11 you know, large banner being Christian, you know, and this is just the language that people use.
00:05:15 So I'm not, I'm not making an objective theological statement now. Okay. But people,
00:05:19 You know, if somebody was an atheist historian tracking, you know, Christian influence throughout the world, they would use, especially over the last, you know, 50 to 80 years, they would say, well, underneath the larger Christian banner, you have Catholics, and then you have, you know, evangelicals.
00:05:40 And then they might add some other categories like Unitarians.
00:05:44 And again, I'm not making a theological statement saying that all these people are, in fact,
00:05:48 Christians.
00:05:48 But I'm just saying this is how a historian would look at it, is you've got the larger
00:05:52 banner of Christian, and then underneath that, you have Roman Catholic, Evangelical, and
00:05:58 some other things that are included that really probably should not be included as Christian.
00:06:02 But my point is, that evangelical category has, within recent history, it has been understood
00:06:13 widely to include Baptists, Reformed Baptists, like in your question, Sir Ian, Presbyterians,
00:06:22 Anglicans, Lutherans, multiple different denominations, all evangelical.
00:06:29 So your question is saying, is there a difference between Reformed Baptist denomination and
00:06:33 Evangelical denomination?
00:06:34 And what I'm saying is Evangelical is not a denomination.
00:06:39 So you're naming one particular denomination, namely Reformed Baptist, that falls underneath
00:06:46 a larger category, which is Evangelical.
00:06:50 Now, the question that I think will be helpful for you and our other listeners would be a
00:06:55 question like this, for instance.
00:06:56 Is there a difference between Reformed Baptist and Calvinistic Baptist within, both underneath
00:07:04 the banner of evangelicalism, but two different denominations, or at least two different,
00:07:10 if not official denominations, two different movements or expressions of evangelicalism?
00:07:15 Reformed Baptist versus Calvinistic Baptist. And I would say, yes, there is a difference
00:07:20 between being a Calvinistic Baptist and a Reformed Baptist. Let me give you two names.
00:07:24 So I'll first articulate the difference, the distinction by naming some guys, and then I'll name some doctrines, okay?
00:07:32 So in terms of some people, John MacArthur would be one of your quintessential Calvinistic Baptists that is not a Reformed Baptist.
00:07:44 He is a Calvinistic Baptist.
00:07:46 He would hold to the five points of, he'd hold to the five solos, right?
00:07:49 So saved by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, according to the scripture alone, to the glory of God alone.
00:07:53 So he'd hold to the five solas, but beyond that, he would hold to the tulip, the five
00:07:58 points of Calvinism, the doctrines of grace, okay?
00:08:02 Total depravity, unconditional election, limited or definite atonement, irresistible
00:08:08 grace, and the perseverance of all saints, right?
00:08:12 So John MacArthur is a Calvinist.
00:08:13 He is a card-carrying Calvinist, okay?
00:08:15 But he is not a Reformed Baptist.
00:08:18 He is a Calvinistic Baptist.
00:08:20 An example of a Reformed Baptist, to name someone on that side of the aisle, would be someone like, well, Votie Bauckham.
00:08:30 So I'm trying to name bigger guys that you would recognize.
00:08:34 Oh, here's another one.
00:08:35 James White.
00:08:37 James White.
00:08:38 And myself.
00:08:39 I assume you know who I am if you're watching this video.
00:08:42 You know at least a little bit about me enough to click on this and to still be here watching.
00:08:47 But so someone like Votie Bauckham, somebody like James White, and somebody like Joel
00:08:52 Webin, we would be Reformed Baptists, not merely Calvinistic Baptists like John MacArthur,
00:08:58 but Reformed Baptists.
00:08:59 So there is a distinction.
00:09:00 So both under the banner of evangelicalism, but two different expressions, both evangelical,
00:09:06 both Orthodox, both Christian, but two different expressions.
00:09:09 The difference in terms of names, people, John MacArthur, Calvinistic Baptist, somebody
00:09:14 like Votie Bauckham, Reformed Baptist.
00:09:16 Now, the difference in terms of doctrine, here would be your differences.
00:09:21 The big quintessential difference is that a Reformed Baptist is someone who is confessional.
00:09:30 They hold to one of the historic, well, not just one of, but quintessentially, the historic
00:09:38 Reformed confession of faith for Baptists, namely the 1689.
00:09:46 John MacArthur would not hold to the 1689.
00:09:49 He would agree with a lot of it, a lot of it, but he would not be able to affirm outright
00:09:54 the entirety of the 1689 Second London Baptist Confession of Faith.
00:09:59 Votie Bauckham would, James White would, I would.
00:10:03 So we are Reformed Baptists and primarily the first big, the biggest doctrinal distinction
00:10:09 that that means in being Reformed Baptists is that we are confessionally Reformed Baptists
00:10:14 or also historically known as particular Baptist. Now, in that confession, what are some of the
00:10:20 isolated individual doctrines that are different than someone like MacArthur, who's merely a
00:10:26 Calvinistic Baptist, faithful, grateful for MacArthur, but merely a Calvinistic Baptist?
00:10:32 Why are you saying merely? That sounds like a pejorative. That sounds derogatory. Well,
00:10:36 I'm saying merely because a Calvinistic Baptist believes less. So that's why I'm using the
00:10:42 you know, the adjective merely, they believe less than the confessional Baptist. And this is what I 0.98
00:10:47 mean. The Calvinistic Baptist would affirm less of the 1689 confession. So, so maybe MacArthur's
00:10:54 right. So I'm not, I'm not, I don't mean that in an insulting way, but I'm saying he, he would hold
00:11:00 to less of the reformed confession of faith for Baptist, namely the 1689. What are some of the
00:11:07 things that MacArthur would not hold, that someone who affirms the entirety of the 1689
00:11:12 London Baptist Confession of Faith would hold. MacArthur would not hold to Christian
00:11:18 Sabbatarianism, the Sabbath. The Christian Sabbath, whether you are Reformed Presbyterian,
00:11:26 affirming the Westminster Confession of Faith, or Reformed Baptist, both confessional,
00:11:31 affirming the 1689 Confession of Faith. On both sides of the aisle, if you're Reformed
00:11:36 Presbyterian or Reformed Baptist, you would hold to the Christian Sabbath. The Christian Sabbath
00:11:40 believes that the fourth commandment in Exodus 20 and the Ten Commandments, the Decalogue,
00:11:45 the fourth commandment is belonging to the moral law of God rather than ceremonial law of God,
00:11:52 particular to the old covenant and to Israel, the nation state of Israel during the time of the old
00:11:57 covenant. We would say, no, the Sabbath is not ceremonial law. It is moral law and that Jesus
00:12:04 as Lord of the Sabbath does not remove the Sabbath. He doesn't abrogate the Sabbath,
00:12:10 the fourth commandment. He does not remove it, but rather he renewed the Sabbath from the last
00:12:14 day of the week, namely Saturday, which is when the Jewish people would observe the Sabbath as
00:12:20 they were instructed by God, the seventh day of the week. Jesus has not removed the Sabbath,
00:12:24 but renewed the Sabbath from the last day of the week, Saturday, to the first day of the week,
00:12:30 Sunday, by virtue of it being the day that he rose from the grave. By virtue of his resurrection,
00:12:36 he renewed, not removed, but renewed the Sabbath from the last to the first day of the week. And
00:12:41 the Sabbath, the fourth commandment within the Decalogue, belongs to the moral law of God
00:12:46 and not merely the ceremonial law. There are ceremonial aspects of the Sabbath, but it is a
00:12:52 moral law, meaning it is an institute, a precept that God gives not just to Jewish people, but to
00:13:00 all people in all places throughout all time. So, Reformed Baptists are confessional. One of the
00:13:07 aspects of being confessional rather than non-confessional and merely Calvinistic Baptists
00:13:12 is the issue of the Sabbath. Also, that gets into our views of the law. It also gets into
00:13:19 covenant theology. One of the very big specific tenets of the 1689 of being Reformed Baptist
00:13:27 versus Calvinistic Baptist is that Reformed Baptist who would, they affirm that the Reformed
00:13:33 Confession of Faith for Baptists, the 1689, is that they would adhere to covenant theology and not
00:13:39 dispensationalism. John MacArthur is not a covenant theologian. He would reject covenant theology.
00:13:45 In his defense, he rejects covenant theology because he wants to hold to a very strict
00:13:50 historical, grammatical, literal hermeneutic in the way that he reads and interprets scripture.
00:13:58 And he would have less room for an analogical or typological or Christological piece in that
00:14:06 hermeneutic. Whereas Reformed Presbyterians with the Westminster and Reformed Baptists with the
00:14:12 1689, we would affirm John MacArthur's hermeneutic. We wouldn't hold to anything less
00:14:18 than that. But again, we would hold to something in addition to that. We would say it needs to be
00:14:22 a literal, historical, grammatical hermeneutic and typological, analogical. And so, in that
00:14:29 hermeneutic, in the way that we read scripture, we would see more continuity between the Old and
00:14:35 the New Testament than John MacArthur or a dispensationalist would see. And again, as a
00:14:41 disclaimer, doing, you know, not straw manning, but iron manning Dr. MacArthur, he would be
00:14:46 self-described as not a hard line dispensationalist as some, but a leaky dispensationalist. So what's
00:14:54 the big difference between Reformed Baptist versus Calvinistic Baptist? Well, the overarching
00:14:58 difference is the confession of faith. Within the confession of faith, what are some of the
00:15:03 specific tenets? The Sabbath, covenant theology versus dispensationalism, things like that. And
00:15:10 then within covenant theology, most, as far as I'm aware, pretty much all covenant guys rather
00:15:17 than dispensational are either all mill or post mill in their eschatology. Whereas again, most,
00:15:25 if not all dispensationalist are pre mill and their eschatology. So the eschatology piece would 0.70
00:15:31 be another difference that we would have between a Calvinistic Baptist and a reformed Baptist. So
00:15:39 those are some of the things, some of the differences between a Calvinistic Baptist and
00:15:43 a Reformed Baptist, but both underneath the larger banner of evangelicalism. Evangelical not being a
00:15:50 denomination, but rather the large overarching banner to describe simply gospel-believing
00:15:57 Christians in multiple denominations that would fall underneath that header.
00:16:03 Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Hold it. Big announcement. A scary announcement. A threat.
00:16:09 but also a promise. The price of our conference, the post-millennial and theonomy conference,
00:16:14 it's going up. It's going up right after Reformation Day. We are going to hold the
00:16:19 price at $100, which is super cheap for a three-day conference with Dr. James White,
00:16:23 Dr. Joseph Boot, Dr. Gary DeMar, and the guy who's not a doctor, so we'll say Pastor Joel
00:16:28 Webben. We've got a great conference, May 5th, 6th, and 7th in Georgetown, Texas, just north
00:16:34 of Austin for a hundred bucks, super cheap, but we can't hold that price forever. So if you want
00:16:40 to get into that price, you got to get in now right after reformation day, not Halloween reformation
00:16:46 day, October 31st. That's the last day that you can get in this conference register at the price
00:16:51 of a hundred bucks. After that, starting November 1st, it's going to be 130. So go to
00:16:57 writeresponseconference.com, writeresponseconference.com, and register today. Thanks.
00:17:03 Thanks so much for listening. But real quick, before you go, do us a small favor,
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