The NXR Podcast - QUESTIONS - What’s The Difference Between Calvinistic & Reformed Baptists ｜ John MacArthur & Voddie Baucham

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00:00:21.280 What's the difference between the Reformed Baptist denomination and Evangelical denomination?

00:00:27.320 can one be Calvinist and evangelical? Okay. Leave the question up there for just a moment.

00:00:35.040 So I'm going to do like what I just said. So Jesus, you know, people would ask him a question,

00:00:38.780 he would decline to answer their question, and then he would answer another question that he

00:00:43.060 thought was actually more pertinent. I'm going to do a little bit of that with you, sir, Ian,

00:00:46.940 but not completely. I want to honor your question as much as I can, but I think this is what you

00:00:50.780 mean. Okay. So, and maybe you don't mean this, and maybe it's just a misconception, just something

00:00:56.380 just an area of ignorance. So let me dispel some of that. Evangelicalism is not really a

00:01:04.020 denomination. So when people say evangelical Christians or evangelicals, what they're

00:01:11.380 actually talking about is an overarching collection of multiple denominations. And what constitutes an

00:01:18.840 evangelical Christian at the individual level or an evangelical church, speaking of local churches,

00:01:25.000 or an evangelical denomination is, does this church or individual person or denomination,

00:01:36.560 do they preach an Orthodox Christian gospel? So evangelicals, right? And it's tough because

00:01:44.880 with many words, there's debates about how to define that. But in recent history, in general,

00:01:52.940 the way that the word evangelical has been defined and understood has been any denomination,

00:01:59.620 multiple denominations, any denomination, any local church, any individual person

00:02:04.480 who believes that we are saved by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone.

00:02:13.160 Okay, so some would maybe differ with what I'm about to say, but most evangelicals would agree

00:02:18.200 that Catholic is not evangelical, Roman Catholicism. So it'd be evangelicals and Catholics.

00:02:26.140 That's one of the things that Billy Graham did in his later years that I would reject. I think this

00:02:31.060 was wrong. I don't like that he did this, but towards the end of his ministry, he had a big

00:02:37.640 push for Catholics and evangelicals to unite. Now, it's one thing for Catholics and evangelicals to

00:02:44.260 unite on, for instance, the issue of the sanctity of life, because we believe the exact same thing.

00:02:51.280 But it's another for evangelicals and Catholics to unite in the work of evangelism, because that

00:02:57.760 has to do with the gospel. And Roman Catholics do not believe the same gospel that we do as 0.88

00:03:07.260 evangelical Christians. They believe another gospel. I love Roman Catholics. I love them 0.95

00:03:14.220 immensely. I am grateful for a lot of what they do, but they do believe another gospel. They

00:03:21.700 don't believe that we are saved by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, according

00:03:29.600 to the scripture alone, to the glory of God alone. Sola, right? The Latin word sola, alone.

00:03:37.920 That's the contention. There's the rub. The Council of Trent still is the current standard

00:03:44.980 for Roman Catholicism. This has never been undone. This has never been overridden. The Council of

00:03:51.420 Trent anathematized that we are saved by grace through faith in Christ, according to the scripture,

00:03:58.220 to the glory of God alone. And that is the gospel. So what I'm saying is this, that the Council of

00:04:04.880 Trent, which is still the official position of the Roman Catholic Church to this day,

00:04:10.760 anathematized, that is, it cursed, said, let him be accursed. And what did they curse?

00:04:18.040 The gospel of Jesus Christ. That's a big deal. I love Catholics. And I am partnering in some

00:04:26.100 capacities with Catholics when it comes to political, cultural issues. And yet, no matter 0.99

00:04:30.700 how cozy I might get, if I ever stop saying what I'm saying in this video right now, 0.97

00:04:37.500 then call me out for being a hypocrite. I don't want to get so cozy on some cultural issues where

00:04:44.180 we can agree that I stop preaching in love the truth to our Roman Catholic friends that what

00:04:53.960 they believe is another gospel. It's not another presentation or another version. No, it is a

00:05:02.720 whole other alternative gospel. It is not the gospel. Okay. So usually when you think of,

00:05:11.000 you know, large banner being Christian, you know, and this is just the language that people use.

00:05:15.980 So I'm not, I'm not making an objective theological statement now. Okay. But people,

00:05:19.920 You know, if somebody was an atheist historian tracking, you know, Christian influence throughout the world, they would use, especially over the last, you know, 50 to 80 years, they would say, well, underneath the larger Christian banner, you have Catholics, and then you have, you know, evangelicals.

00:05:40.580 And then they might add some other categories like Unitarians.

00:05:44.160 And again, I'm not making a theological statement saying that all these people are, in fact,

00:05:48.000 Christians.

00:05:48.900 But I'm just saying this is how a historian would look at it, is you've got the larger

00:05:52.760 banner of Christian, and then underneath that, you have Roman Catholic, Evangelical, and

00:05:58.400 some other things that are included that really probably should not be included as Christian.

00:06:02.540 But my point is, that evangelical category has, within recent history, it has been understood

00:06:13.080 widely to include Baptists, Reformed Baptists, like in your question, Sir Ian, Presbyterians,

00:06:22.120 Anglicans, Lutherans, multiple different denominations, all evangelical.

00:06:29.200 So your question is saying, is there a difference between Reformed Baptist denomination and

00:06:33.220 Evangelical denomination?

00:06:34.860 And what I'm saying is Evangelical is not a denomination.

00:06:39.700 So you're naming one particular denomination, namely Reformed Baptist, that falls underneath

00:06:46.040 a larger category, which is Evangelical.

00:06:50.440 Now, the question that I think will be helpful for you and our other listeners would be a

00:06:55.560 question like this, for instance.

00:06:56.940 Is there a difference between Reformed Baptist and Calvinistic Baptist within, both underneath

00:07:04.360 the banner of evangelicalism, but two different denominations, or at least two different,

00:07:10.220 if not official denominations, two different movements or expressions of evangelicalism?

00:07:15.720 Reformed Baptist versus Calvinistic Baptist. And I would say, yes, there is a difference

00:07:20.740 between being a Calvinistic Baptist and a Reformed Baptist. Let me give you two names.

00:07:24.880 So I'll first articulate the difference, the distinction by naming some guys, and then I'll name some doctrines, okay?

00:07:32.980 So in terms of some people, John MacArthur would be one of your quintessential Calvinistic Baptists that is not a Reformed Baptist.

00:07:44.100 He is a Calvinistic Baptist.

00:07:46.040 He would hold to the five points of, he'd hold to the five solos, right?

00:07:49.760 So saved by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, according to the scripture alone, to the glory of God alone.

00:07:53.820 So he'd hold to the five solas, but beyond that, he would hold to the tulip, the five

00:07:58.780 points of Calvinism, the doctrines of grace, okay?

00:08:02.300 Total depravity, unconditional election, limited or definite atonement, irresistible

00:08:08.700 grace, and the perseverance of all saints, right?

00:08:12.240 So John MacArthur is a Calvinist.

00:08:13.800 He is a card-carrying Calvinist, okay?

00:08:15.720 But he is not a Reformed Baptist.

00:08:18.340 He is a Calvinistic Baptist.

00:08:20.020 An example of a Reformed Baptist, to name someone on that side of the aisle, would be someone like, well, Votie Bauckham.

00:08:30.960 So I'm trying to name bigger guys that you would recognize.

00:08:34.580 Oh, here's another one.

00:08:35.980 James White.

00:08:37.460 James White.

00:08:38.540 And myself.

00:08:39.960 I assume you know who I am if you're watching this video.

00:08:42.500 You know at least a little bit about me enough to click on this and to still be here watching.

00:08:47.860 But so someone like Votie Bauckham, somebody like James White, and somebody like Joel

00:08:52.660 Webin, we would be Reformed Baptists, not merely Calvinistic Baptists like John MacArthur,

00:08:58.340 but Reformed Baptists.

00:08:59.220 So there is a distinction.

00:09:00.960 So both under the banner of evangelicalism, but two different expressions, both evangelical,

00:09:06.280 both Orthodox, both Christian, but two different expressions.

00:09:09.940 The difference in terms of names, people, John MacArthur, Calvinistic Baptist, somebody

00:09:14.940 like Votie Bauckham, Reformed Baptist.

00:09:16.900 Now, the difference in terms of doctrine, here would be your differences.

00:09:21.940 The big quintessential difference is that a Reformed Baptist is someone who is confessional.

00:09:30.100 They hold to one of the historic, well, not just one of, but quintessentially, the historic

00:09:38.920 Reformed confession of faith for Baptists, namely the 1689.

00:09:46.020 John MacArthur would not hold to the 1689.

00:09:49.260 He would agree with a lot of it, a lot of it, but he would not be able to affirm outright

00:09:54.100 the entirety of the 1689 Second London Baptist Confession of Faith.

00:09:59.580 Votie Bauckham would, James White would, I would.

00:10:03.080 So we are Reformed Baptists and primarily the first big, the biggest doctrinal distinction

00:10:09.320 that that means in being Reformed Baptists is that we are confessionally Reformed Baptists

00:10:14.380 or also historically known as particular Baptist. Now, in that confession, what are some of the

00:10:20.660 isolated individual doctrines that are different than someone like MacArthur, who's merely a

00:10:26.440 Calvinistic Baptist, faithful, grateful for MacArthur, but merely a Calvinistic Baptist?

00:10:32.160 Why are you saying merely? That sounds like a pejorative. That sounds derogatory. Well,

00:10:36.660 I'm saying merely because a Calvinistic Baptist believes less. So that's why I'm using the

00:10:42.380 you know, the adjective merely, they believe less than the confessional Baptist. And this is what I 0.98

00:10:47.080 mean. The Calvinistic Baptist would affirm less of the 1689 confession. So, so maybe MacArthur's

00:10:54.920 right. So I'm not, I'm not, I don't mean that in an insulting way, but I'm saying he, he would hold

00:11:00.000 to less of the reformed confession of faith for Baptist, namely the 1689. What are some of the

00:11:07.300 things that MacArthur would not hold, that someone who affirms the entirety of the 1689

00:11:12.500 London Baptist Confession of Faith would hold. MacArthur would not hold to Christian

00:11:18.140 Sabbatarianism, the Sabbath. The Christian Sabbath, whether you are Reformed Presbyterian,

00:11:26.600 affirming the Westminster Confession of Faith, or Reformed Baptist, both confessional,

00:11:31.720 affirming the 1689 Confession of Faith. On both sides of the aisle, if you're Reformed

00:11:36.420 Presbyterian or Reformed Baptist, you would hold to the Christian Sabbath. The Christian Sabbath

00:11:40.960 believes that the fourth commandment in Exodus 20 and the Ten Commandments, the Decalogue,

00:11:45.480 the fourth commandment is belonging to the moral law of God rather than ceremonial law of God,

00:11:52.680 particular to the old covenant and to Israel, the nation state of Israel during the time of the old

00:11:57.920 covenant. We would say, no, the Sabbath is not ceremonial law. It is moral law and that Jesus

00:12:04.440 as Lord of the Sabbath does not remove the Sabbath. He doesn't abrogate the Sabbath,

00:12:10.140 the fourth commandment. He does not remove it, but rather he renewed the Sabbath from the last

00:12:14.980 day of the week, namely Saturday, which is when the Jewish people would observe the Sabbath as

00:12:20.220 they were instructed by God, the seventh day of the week. Jesus has not removed the Sabbath,

00:12:24.760 but renewed the Sabbath from the last day of the week, Saturday, to the first day of the week,

00:12:30.040 Sunday, by virtue of it being the day that he rose from the grave. By virtue of his resurrection,

00:12:36.200 he renewed, not removed, but renewed the Sabbath from the last to the first day of the week. And

00:12:41.460 the Sabbath, the fourth commandment within the Decalogue, belongs to the moral law of God

00:12:46.240 and not merely the ceremonial law. There are ceremonial aspects of the Sabbath, but it is a

00:12:52.660 moral law, meaning it is an institute, a precept that God gives not just to Jewish people, but to

00:13:00.540 all people in all places throughout all time. So, Reformed Baptists are confessional. One of the

00:13:07.460 aspects of being confessional rather than non-confessional and merely Calvinistic Baptists

00:13:12.900 is the issue of the Sabbath. Also, that gets into our views of the law. It also gets into

00:13:19.740 covenant theology. One of the very big specific tenets of the 1689 of being Reformed Baptist

00:13:27.680 versus Calvinistic Baptist is that Reformed Baptist who would, they affirm that the Reformed

00:13:33.560 Confession of Faith for Baptists, the 1689, is that they would adhere to covenant theology and not

00:13:39.340 dispensationalism. John MacArthur is not a covenant theologian. He would reject covenant theology.

00:13:45.420 In his defense, he rejects covenant theology because he wants to hold to a very strict

00:13:50.960 historical, grammatical, literal hermeneutic in the way that he reads and interprets scripture.

00:13:58.640 And he would have less room for an analogical or typological or Christological piece in that

00:14:06.260 hermeneutic. Whereas Reformed Presbyterians with the Westminster and Reformed Baptists with the

00:14:12.740 1689, we would affirm John MacArthur's hermeneutic. We wouldn't hold to anything less

00:14:18.040 than that. But again, we would hold to something in addition to that. We would say it needs to be

00:14:22.220 a literal, historical, grammatical hermeneutic and typological, analogical. And so, in that

00:14:29.600 hermeneutic, in the way that we read scripture, we would see more continuity between the Old and

00:14:35.900 the New Testament than John MacArthur or a dispensationalist would see. And again, as a

00:14:41.360 disclaimer, doing, you know, not straw manning, but iron manning Dr. MacArthur, he would be

00:14:46.360 self-described as not a hard line dispensationalist as some, but a leaky dispensationalist. So what's

00:14:54.080 the big difference between Reformed Baptist versus Calvinistic Baptist? Well, the overarching

00:14:58.100 difference is the confession of faith. Within the confession of faith, what are some of the

00:15:03.100 specific tenets? The Sabbath, covenant theology versus dispensationalism, things like that. And

00:15:10.940 then within covenant theology, most, as far as I'm aware, pretty much all covenant guys rather

00:15:17.240 than dispensational are either all mill or post mill in their eschatology. Whereas again, most,

00:15:25.140 if not all dispensationalist are pre mill and their eschatology. So the eschatology piece would 0.70

00:15:31.860 be another difference that we would have between a Calvinistic Baptist and a reformed Baptist. So

00:15:39.140 those are some of the things, some of the differences between a Calvinistic Baptist and

00:15:43.540 a Reformed Baptist, but both underneath the larger banner of evangelicalism. Evangelical not being a

00:15:50.360 denomination, but rather the large overarching banner to describe simply gospel-believing

00:15:57.480 Christians in multiple denominations that would fall underneath that header.

00:16:03.180 Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Hold it. Big announcement. A scary announcement. A threat.

00:16:09.140 but also a promise. The price of our conference, the post-millennial and theonomy conference,

00:16:14.120 it's going up. It's going up right after Reformation Day. We are going to hold the

00:16:19.020 price at $100, which is super cheap for a three-day conference with Dr. James White,

00:16:23.820 Dr. Joseph Boot, Dr. Gary DeMar, and the guy who's not a doctor, so we'll say Pastor Joel

00:16:28.600 Webben. We've got a great conference, May 5th, 6th, and 7th in Georgetown, Texas, just north

00:16:34.460 of Austin for a hundred bucks, super cheap, but we can't hold that price forever. So if you want

00:16:40.780 to get into that price, you got to get in now right after reformation day, not Halloween reformation

00:16:46.260 day, October 31st. That's the last day that you can get in this conference register at the price

00:16:51.940 of a hundred bucks. After that, starting November 1st, it's going to be 130. So go to

00:16:57.580 writeresponseconference.com, writeresponseconference.com, and register today. Thanks.

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The NXR Podcast - October 13, 2022

QUESTIONS - What’s The Difference Between Calvinistic & Reformed Baptists ｜ John MacArthur & Voddie Baucham

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