The NXR Podcast - THE CONFERENCE - Live Panel #2 with Haunted Cosmos

00:00:00.000 okay what are we talking about what did we decide we talked about it briefly back there

00:00:04.100 what make the announcement what has it been why am i making the announcement brian somebody

00:00:10.220 atlantis we're going to talk about atlantis this is your conference right brian do your atlantis

00:00:15.880 thing what was it he's like atlantis he says every man has a dream to find atlantis the city of lost

00:00:21.820 treasure and adventure that's it that's every man's dream from the disney if you want to want

00:00:26.440 to win a man's heart if you're a single lady looking for a single man just say hey i really

00:00:30.020 like atlantis would you like to talk about it yeah and we all know where it is so i mean

00:00:33.640 yeah where is it well it's in mauritania it's in the middle of the sahara desert

00:00:38.440 explain the eye of the sahara the racat structure it's there i thought it was in the water so let's

00:00:45.000 just talk about the background talk about plato talk about what's his name solon yep solon talk

00:00:50.620 Talk about Solon. Talk about how Plato had Moses.

00:00:54.840 Inform us.

00:00:56.440 I don't remember exactly what it was,

00:00:58.800 but Solon was Plato's great or great-great-grandfather.

00:01:02.780 It was like ninth generation descendant.

00:01:04.840 Oh, was it that far?

00:01:05.700 Yeah, it was quite. I think so.

00:01:07.480 And he was a statesman in Greece.

00:01:10.180 He took a trip one time to Alexandria,

00:01:12.880 and while he was at Alexandria,

00:01:14.220 some of the Egyptian priests showed him the history of the world

00:01:19.040 in their temple, and 6,000 or 9,000 or so years before he was there, they told him about this

00:01:27.120 place called Atlantis, and they were very prosperous, and they were in this like really

00:01:33.000 advanced island kind of civilization, and they actually were overrunning all of the Mediterranean.

00:01:40.340 And they were oppressing people, specifically the Athenians, and so the gods got very angry at them,

00:01:45.580 and they judged them in a single night and it got swept away into the water and never returned.

00:01:51.980 So Solon comes back, tells his son, his son, his son, all the way down to Plato, who definitely

00:01:57.080 read the Pentateuch and was a big fan. And then we have in Critias and Timaeus, Plato's own version

00:02:05.780 of the events of Atlantis that seem to be, at least in his mind, historical narrative. And so

00:02:12.160 the question then becomes, is it possible? And if possible, how? And then how would it fit in

00:02:18.640 particularly to the overall narrative arc of the scriptures? Fantastic. Talk about the dimensions

00:02:27.000 real quick. Why do you think that Atlantis is in the Sahara Desert in regards to what Plato said?

00:02:33.060 So Plato gave many characteristics of the city or received them from his ancestor. The diameter of

00:02:40.800 the city was it's a ring and it's 23 kilometers roughly it has these concentric circles with

00:02:46.740 certain number of land strip then water then land then uh and water it was well with an island in

00:02:51.760 the center and it was in this rough area with you know the the what is it gibraltar yeah yeah

00:02:58.620 straight to gibraltar to the north and then there was the atlas mountains to the north there were

00:03:02.520 mountains and then there was the uh river outlet that flowed uh southwest yeah and so it wasn't

00:03:09.020 actually in the middle of the ocean but it was stepped back just slightly from the ocean and if

00:03:15.260 you look at a like a google maps overview of the western coast of africa in mauritania then you'll

00:03:21.060 see uh clearly the atlantic coast used to be much closer to this rakat structure and then some

00:03:28.740 cataclysmic event happened a very long time ago that drew the waters back and that's very clear

00:03:34.540 just in the geological structure and so now it's about 54 miles or so east of the western coast

00:03:40.300 but it ticks i mean there was 13 data points or so that plato gave and it ticked almost every

00:03:48.060 single one today like you can still find the evidence today there's springs in the center

00:03:52.640 of the island fresh water yep fresh water maybe primary water joel i don't know there was elephants

00:03:58.720 there there's the red the black the white stones there are all these things that just leave you

00:04:04.520 You're saying, okay, well, if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck, maybe it quacks, too. 0.86

00:04:11.220 Maybe it's a duck. 0.93

00:04:13.140 Yeah, in this city, if you can picture it from the sky, it looks like a dartboard kind of target.

00:04:21.580 And you can literally look, if you start zooming out at the continent in the Sahara Desert,

00:04:27.660 and see, if you're a Ken Ham guy, you all know the pictures of the great waves

00:04:33.640 where it's almost, you guys, like some cataclysmic flood event

00:04:38.080 washed across the lands at some point in the past

00:04:42.860 and utterly destroyed this anti, let's call it anti-Diluvian society. 0.68

00:04:50.940 And that's this place.

00:04:52.280 It's actually, wow, the first time,

00:04:54.200 Ben and I had the idea for Haunted Cosmos some years ago,

00:04:57.160 and we had been talking about how we're going to do it,

00:05:00.620 what's the format, we want stories,

00:05:03.280 we want sound design, we want Christian worldview emphasis, we want to say like, okay, the world is

00:05:10.880 being removed of the supernatural, and that's leaving a hole where people realize we're not

00:05:15.080 stupid, there's not just stuff, like there is a supernatural world. And one of the first things

00:05:20.020 that really caught us as we began to prep for this first episode, like, you know, what did we all say

00:05:25.200 as kids, what did we all get fascinated by? Ocean mysteries. Bermuda Triangle and Atlantis.

00:05:30.780 Based on my childhood, I thought the Bermuda Triangle was going to be a much bigger problem.

00:05:35.540 Just like quicksand.

00:05:36.540 Than it ended up being.

00:05:37.800 I thought I was going to have to deal a lot with quicksand.

00:05:41.240 Ghost ships.

00:05:42.800 And Ben, we traveled to Orlando for a conference.

00:05:47.260 And Ben and I were just by ourselves, went on this conference.

00:05:50.960 And we had started to write and we attempted to record the first draft of episode one there in a hotel.

00:05:58.360 And it was terrible.

00:05:58.920 and it will forever be deleted.

00:06:01.000 We scrapped the whole thing and started again.

00:06:03.680 But on that trip, we stumbled across some of this

00:06:07.060 Atlantis is the ricotte structure stuff.

00:06:10.440 And so it holds a special place in my heart

00:06:12.600 because we were like, we were up in this hotel room.

00:06:16.160 We were at the Chili's.

00:06:17.360 Yeah, at the Chili's.

00:06:18.460 We were doing our thing, vibing.

00:06:20.700 And then we go and watch this random YouTube video

00:06:23.640 about the ricotte structure.

00:06:25.260 And 10 minutes later, we were like,

00:06:27.900 Now we're the subject matter experts on Atlantis.

00:06:30.360 Atlantis confirmed.

00:06:31.200 Time to press record.

00:06:32.740 Atlantis confirmed 100%.

00:06:34.280 We started stopping people on the street and saying,

00:06:36.880 do you know where Atlantis is?

00:06:37.980 We can tell you.

00:06:39.740 They're like, please leave me alone, sir.

00:06:42.820 Sir, this is a Wendy's restaurant.

00:06:43.920 Who are you?

00:06:44.340 So tell me about the king, though, and Plato's conception.

00:06:48.100 This is the best part.

00:06:48.980 Which very likely is history, the king of Atlantis and his sons,

00:06:53.820 and relate that.

00:06:54.860 How would you, Ben and Brian, relate that to the biblical narrative?

00:06:57.900 Yeah, that's the, that's where it really gets interesting. And I'm, I'm going to mix up the

00:07:02.180 names. So Brian, if you remember, be sure to stop me. But there was a people that the

00:07:07.520 Mauretanian, the native Mauretanians knew lived around the Atlas mountains and their names were

00:07:12.900 the Atlans. And this is, this is well known and well recorded. And they had this King who I can't

00:07:18.540 remember his name, but it somehow coincides with a different name for Poseidon. It's like a synonym

00:07:24.000 for poseidon and he was said to live forever and he had 10 uh he had 10 sons five sets of twins

00:07:29.960 and the oldest twins he put in charge of this great city and then all the other twins he kind

00:07:36.300 of spread around to govern different provinces in the in the entire kingdom and poseidon uh by

00:07:43.100 clito who was uh who was his like demi-goddess bride had five sets of twin sons the mother of

00:07:51.160 mermaids that's joel's always trying to talk about mermaids it's gonna get us in trouble you

00:07:57.180 watch the thing we recorded together it's like joel how are you doing today and he's like you

00:08:01.520 know i've been thinking about mermaids brian uh i hope i literally opened one of the episodes you

00:08:06.460 guys had no idea what i was doing but it was like it was right after i had poured my heart and soul

00:08:13.400 into this impromptu telling of a story yeah about this woman who like died in a river and became a

00:08:19.120 and then Joel's like

00:08:20.540 and I didn't know where the song was from

00:08:26.040 I thought Joel was having a stroke

00:08:27.480 you'll probably see it on the camera

00:08:32.100 I was looking at him like

00:08:32.700 a stroke of genius

00:08:33.520 do we need to call an ambulance right now

00:08:37.040 and the other thing is for these several days

00:08:38.820 we'll get back to solving the ancient history problem

00:08:42.600 spoiler alert, it's Nephilim

00:08:44.100 yeah it's all Nephilim

00:08:45.460 and demons, I repeat myself

00:08:47.500 So Joel, we were there for 48 hours about four weeks ago to do this series.

00:08:53.640 And it was like if you've ever seen in the old coal mining towns,

00:08:59.320 when the fathers would go down into the mines at 5 a.m. and they'd mine the coal.

00:09:04.640 And can we come out now for lunch?

00:09:05.860 He'd be like, no, keep mining.

00:09:08.480 9.30 p.m. they come out.

00:09:09.980 That was us in the podcast studio.

00:09:11.940 There's not a shred of sunlight.

00:09:13.760 It's just completely sealed.

00:09:15.140 And it was hot.

00:09:17.000 I'm trying to be like, please, sir, can I see the sun?

00:09:18.660 Joel, may I have a walk?

00:09:19.940 I just want to see the sun.

00:09:20.860 At the end of the 12 hours of the last day, he's like, oh, man, I forgot to turn the AC on.

00:09:26.220 Seriously, that's true.

00:09:27.280 Son of a gun.

00:09:27.940 More podcasts.

00:09:29.960 Please, may I see the sun, Joel?

00:09:31.820 Okay, so all of this is true.

00:09:34.460 But going back, the king, his 10 sons, five sets of twins.

00:09:38.160 And I'm going to say, with this whole idea of Elohim and lowercase g gods and divine counsel, some of this is Heiser-related themes, we're saying that it's at least possible that this Poseidon-type king of Atlantis was not a Nephilim himself, but he would have been a fallen angel.

00:10:00.560 Yeah, it's really important that we define terms, and this really gets into a deeper issue of why we do the show at all, but the reason that we would say that with a straight face, that actually maybe Plato was not only right in saying that Atlantis existed, but he was right in talking about how Poseidon ruled it, is because Genesis 6-4 exists, and we know that there was some angelic rebellion.

00:10:25.100 We can all agree on that, and Satan was the leader of the charge. But we also get many other

00:10:31.720 passages in Scripture that seem to indicate that giants roamed the earth, and so we have to ask,

00:10:37.120 well, where did the giants come from? Well, it seems to me like it's quite clear that they came

00:10:42.600 from the fallen angels taking for themselves daughters of men. And the important thing is that

00:10:47.900 we know what happened to the fallen angels because of Jude and Peter. We know that they were bound

00:10:53.140 in gloomy dungeons until the

00:10:55.080 final judgment of the last day, but we're not told

00:10:57.180 maybe not all the fallen angels, but the ones who

00:10:59.060 engaged in this abominable practice

00:11:00.900 but we're also not told when they were bound

00:11:02.860 so it's perfectly

00:11:05.200 allowable to say that there was some time

00:11:07.220 I mean they had time enough to make children

00:11:09.360 and sire children, we know that

00:11:10.740 so there could have also been some

00:11:13.160 time where they were allowed

00:11:15.140 some level of dominion 0.94

00:11:16.760 so that the sins of the sons of

00:11:19.240 men might be fulfilled and complete

00:11:21.060 before the flood and

00:11:22.840 they had real rulership over dominions of the earth and then they're and then we get all the

00:11:29.020 nephilim well and and not only so not only the biblical narrative but then you start to see why

00:11:35.300 the epic of gilgamesh and native american lore and chinese lore like why is it that all of these

00:11:41.240 ancient mythological structures many of them from cultures that had very little to do with one

00:11:45.800 another or for at least a very long time all tell echoes of the same story well there was this guy

00:11:52.520 that with his family survived this flood and it happened because there were all these gods that

00:11:56.880 were intermingling with people and they were really wrecking things up and so the gods decided

00:12:00.840 that they were going to flood everything and then well this guy you know survived and then there

00:12:04.700 were these great post-Diluvian figures that went around and they you know these stories exist

00:12:10.680 everywhere right these stories exist everywhere and and we're simply asking the question um what

00:12:16.980 if Zeus isn't just a myth yeah what if they didn't just make it all up what if Poseidon isn't just a

00:12:21.760 What if they, like all of us, have been lied to many, many times?

00:12:25.180 What if it's embellished and garbled and degraded?

00:12:28.960 And it's not, I'm not saying, you know, oh, the haunted cosmos is that here's the Bible and then here's the epic of Gilgamesh.

00:12:34.340 That's what Brian said.

00:12:35.400 No, not at all. 0.93

00:12:37.060 But the true story as it went out into the world and was garbled in sinful peoples and cultures, especially after Babel, was I think certainly you see the seed of it in all these cultures. 0.86

00:12:48.440 And we're just saying, our modern, this really gets to the heart of the show. 0.63

00:12:52.620 Our modern discipleship has led us to at least have a knee-jerk instinct to want to Neil deGrasse Tyson everything.

00:13:02.540 Actually.

00:13:03.660 Which is, you know, Neil deGrasse Tyson is, you know, someone will say, you know, shoot for the moon, and if you miss, you'll land among the stars.

00:13:10.300 And he's like, well, actually, the moon is, you know, only this many miles away, and you could never reach the stars.

00:13:15.820 that we want to constantly

00:13:17.860 demythologize

00:13:19.960 and desupernaturalize. Which, by the way, if you want to prove to your 0.56

00:13:21.820 friends that you're super-based, when

00:13:23.740 they tell you that we never landed on the moon,

00:13:26.040 you respond by saying,

00:13:27.820 what a Normie, you believe in the moon?

00:13:29.240 You believe in the moon? You believe birds are

00:13:31.800 real? Whenever anybody's

00:13:33.820 like, tries to say

00:13:35.700 like they're more conspiracy-pilled than us

00:13:37.640 on Haunted Cosmos, that's what we do. Well, except

00:13:39.640 a lot of people are more conspiracy-pilled. You believe

00:13:41.480 in the flat Earth? We believe in the

00:13:43.540 hollow donut flat Earth. The eggshell

00:13:45.600 earth, inside out.

00:13:47.500 Have you read Jules Verne? It's all true.

00:13:50.780 Yep.

00:13:51.340 Okay, so this is

00:13:53.620 not my view. I'm a little bit too hinged for this,

00:13:55.800 but Brian and Ben, they affirm this 100%.

00:13:57.940 So,

00:13:59.740 getting back to this Atlantean king's

00:14:01.920 wife,

00:14:03.580 Enoch talks a little bit about

00:14:05.740 this, and I keep telling these guys,

00:14:07.420 Enoch is not part of the canon, and they're like,

00:14:09.540 Joel, it's 100% true.

00:14:11.060 This is revisionist history.

00:14:13.420 Not true.

00:14:13.620 But basically, okay, so this is the idea,

00:14:15.500 just to bring mermaids in here for a little bit 0.66

00:14:17.820 for this underwater kingdom situation. 0.99

00:14:20.840 And then we need to get to primary water

00:14:22.200 and get back to those sweet springs a little bit.

00:14:25.560 And then I think we should land the plane

00:14:27.360 with more of the spiritual, biblical principle

00:14:30.180 of why Haunted Cup, what you already touched on,

00:14:32.020 but I think there's more that we can talk about.

00:14:32.800 If people here have not listened to the show,

00:14:35.000 they're really confused right now.

00:14:36.480 Yeah, yeah, that's fair, that's fair.

00:14:38.140 Allow me to apologize on Joel's behalf.

00:14:40.440 No, I have a strict no-apology policy.

00:14:45.800 So this is what Enoch says.

00:14:49.820 Basically, he's saying that, okay, we can explain the Nephilim and the giants.

00:14:55.860 You have fallen angels who saw the daughters of men, that they were attractive, and so they took them as wives.

00:15:02.360 And so then you have this hybrid humanoid, half-angelic, half-fallen angel, half-human thing.

00:15:08.120 And that explains the Nephilim.

00:15:10.440 But what Enoch talks about, and again, take it with a grain of salt, but what he talks about is what about these women, daughters of Cain, the human women who chose to engage in this unholy union, is there a consequence, a judgment for them? 1.00

00:15:26.440 No, women don't sin.

00:15:27.680 Oh, yeah. 1.00

00:15:28.300 And we have it on good authority, no equal protection. 1.00

00:15:30.920 There was probably a hierarchy of power that made irrelevant all of her age. 1.00

00:15:34.840 They were probably given immediate entrance into heaven just for their trouble.

00:15:37.600 I love it.

00:15:37.800 What we're saying right now is that Enoch is the OG abolitionist, right?

00:15:42.060 Equal protection, equal – women sin too. 1.00

00:15:44.520 They need, you know, some kind of consequence.

00:15:46.480 But Enoch, what he says is that these women who married these fallen angels,

00:15:50.440 that their punishment is that they became sirens is the word that he uses.

00:15:55.120 What do you guys think?

00:15:56.280 Yeah, so –

00:15:56.720 You hate it, but what do you –

00:15:58.060 But tell us in longer words of how much you hate it.

00:16:01.540 All right, here's why I hate it.

00:16:03.300 Here's why I hate one takeaway from it is that people read that

00:16:07.440 and they say, well, I mean, Jude references Enoch, so it must be true.

00:16:11.200 And I'd say, no, that doesn't then follow,

00:16:14.380 because that would mean that Enoch is canon and it's not.

00:16:17.360 And Paul references philosophers and poets that he does not endorse every word they ever read.

00:16:21.480 Exactly, and Peter does the same thing.

00:16:24.160 So I would say that you can't just say, well, since Enoch says it, it's true.

00:16:27.860 But the thing I think is compelling is that the authors of 1 Enoch,

00:16:32.620 or the author had a category in their mind for a siren they had room in their mind for a place

00:16:41.200 in creation that the siren occupies and the sign being a mermaid the siren being in in one side

00:16:47.520 the mermaid but the greeks also said that it was like a human bird hybrid a woman bird hybrid so

00:16:52.280 it's either a mermaid or this really creepy bird lady uh which that brings up lilith motifs yeah

00:16:59.680 on its own succubus motifs and things like that just real quick so lilith is i mean in jewish

00:17:06.720 mythology lilith was adam's first wife who rejected adam's authority and then also uh spoke the

00:17:13.500 unspeakable name of god and was condemned and as she was being taken to be to be drowned she pled

00:17:20.440 with the lord to and this is where it gets really interesting not that it wasn't already crazy

00:17:25.300 Exactly. Yeah. Not that this, yeah. Please, Lord, let me just live forever. And I'll tell you what,

00:17:31.280 in return for you letting me do that, I will terrorize new mothers and steal their children. 0.99

00:17:36.200 And in this myth, God says, okay. So that's not how it went down. But we do have references to 0.89

00:17:45.800 Lilith in the scriptures, Isaiah 34, 13, I believe, references Lilith as a being who would dwell in

00:17:52.960 Edom, once Edom is destroyed by the judgment of God. Our modern translation is translated into

00:17:58.940 ostrich or a jackal sometimes, mostly ostrich. And they actually do the same thing with the one,

00:18:07.260 or there's several, but the one place that I know of in the Septuagint that the Greek writers said

00:18:14.180 was referring to a siren. And that I believe is in Isaiah 44, but I could be getting that wrong.

00:18:19.040 but it's talking about the destroyed Babylon and how it too is going to become a haunt of jackals

00:18:24.520 and all these things. And in the Septuagint, it says that the sirens will dwell there.

00:18:30.500 Now, the Greek word used is siren. The oldest Hebrew text that we have seems to be this strange

00:18:39.680 phrase that we don't fully understand the meaning of, but that can most likely be taken to mean the

00:18:46.060 daughters of Nema. And if anyone is really good with their Old Testament genealogy, you know that

00:18:51.500 Nema was the daughter or sister of Tubal-Cain, who was the maker of the weapons and the instruments

00:18:58.580 and things like that. And there is this idea that Nema, the daughter of Tubal-Cain, was one of the

00:19:05.100 chief seductresses of the fallen angels, and so she became the mother of the demons. That was this 0.94

00:19:12.380 idea, because the Nephilim eventually became the demons. We can talk about that if we want to. 0.98

00:19:18.360 Now, again, I don't think that any of that is necessarily true or historically accurate,

00:19:22.220 because the Bible doesn't say that. But what we can again say is, why was there a category in

00:19:28.900 their mind? What was that doing there? And so I think that we have a lot of reason to believe

00:19:35.300 from that, and also from just historical theology and natural theology even, that there very well

00:19:42.160 might be a category in creation that a mermaid fits nicely into. And this is also, just for the

00:19:48.100 record, if you've read in The Magician's Nephew about Jadis of Charn, the wicked empress of Charn,

00:19:57.020 and then in The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe, which was written first, when the beavers are

00:20:01.140 explaining to the Pevensey children where did Jadis come from, Lewis writes into that story,

00:20:07.660 Oh, she came of Lilith, Adam's first wife.

00:20:11.200 So if you've ever been confused by that, when you read through that whole mythological arc or that idea is where Lewis got this steeped in the mythology of some of these stories.

00:20:21.720 To me, just to piggyback off that, I think that Lilith came probably of the same origin of the mermaids.

00:20:29.480 and I would look to Babylonian and Mesopotamian myth

00:20:33.500 to inform us a little bit as to how that may have happened

00:20:36.380 where Gilgamesh was said to be the daughter of a Lilithu

00:20:39.620 and Lilith was a Babylonian demon goddess

00:20:43.180 who was always wreaking havoc.

00:20:44.960 She's always an enemy 1.00

00:20:45.680 and she's always trying to steal life, blood, and children. 1.00

00:20:50.020 She's the inversion of true feminine. 1.00

00:20:52.940 She's an inversion of the mother of all living. 1.00

00:20:54.880 She's an inversion of Eve 0.56

00:20:55.860 And I would just say that I would not put my hat on the hook of she used to be a human.

00:21:03.100 I wouldn't do that at all because we know what happens to the human when they die.

00:21:06.720 But I would say that there was something that took place in that whole Genesis 6-4 mix-up

00:21:12.560 that could help us explain the actual creation of these beings and how they came to be

00:21:19.580 and then how they spread from there and started to wreak havoc on all cultures in the entire world.

00:21:25.860 Every ancient civilization and most pre-modern and modern, like non-first world civilizations have a category for this Lilith witch vampiric demon. 0.54

00:21:37.560 Right. And for the record, not just before the flood, but I think all three of us would agree in terms of our theory of Nephilim after the flood that we would, you know, it's possible, but I think we would lean towards, I'll speak for myself, leaning towards one fall in terms of chronological order or events, timing, that there was one fall of these angels, you know, that chose to rebel against God, swept out of the sky.

00:22:03.240 And this was pre-flood, but not all of the fallen angels, although you have, so the picture is like there's a primary group and then a subgroup of that.

00:22:12.600 So there's one primary group of these angels that fell from heaven, but not all of them took the daughters of men in marriage and trying to, multiple purposes.

00:22:23.860 I think one is to corrupt the Messianic line.

00:22:25.960 That's a lot of Old Testament.

00:22:29.060 The thread is trying to, whether it's Herod killing all the babies in Bethlehem or Pharaoh in Egypt,

00:22:35.260 you see that there's this thread of Satan twisting the hearts of men to try to, he knows, right?

00:22:42.760 He was there that day in the garden.

00:22:44.080 He knows it's the seed of the woman that's going to crush his head. 0.63

00:22:46.700 So he's got a multiple-pronged strategy to try to stop it. 0.77

00:22:51.120 And so, one, these fallen angels are trying to corrupt the messianic line from whom the Christ would come, the seed of the woman.

00:22:58.180 And so that's part of the reason why they're taking the daughters of men.

00:23:00.540 And then also, I think, with angels, you know, Ben and I have talked about there's no federal headship with angels.

00:23:05.880 Human beings are unique in the sense that, you know, there's an argument to be made.

00:23:09.640 I'm not saying this is definitive or objective, but you can argue, I believe, from the Scripture that both men and angels are made in the image of God.

00:23:18.280 so that it's not just unique to humanity.

00:23:21.440 That is an argument that can be made.

00:23:23.500 But one thing that is unique to humanity,

00:23:25.900 if not the Imago Dei,

00:23:28.840 then one thing that is unique to humanity

00:23:30.760 is the fact that we are able to sire,

00:23:33.200 that we are lowercase c creators.

00:23:35.620 God alone is capital C, 0.76

00:23:37.160 creates ex nihilo out of nothing.

00:23:39.360 But we, as his image bearers,

00:23:41.640 are called to create in following his example.

00:23:46.020 We create with the substance

00:23:47.580 and the things that God has baked into the fabric of the world.

00:23:50.500 We use the resources in this ever-growing pie.

00:23:53.340 It's not a zero-sum game, but the world that God has made.

00:23:55.940 But angels can't do that like men.

00:23:59.240 Angels, and that's why when it comes to a fall, for instance,

00:24:04.260 talking about a moral fall, the angels before this, chronologically before this,

00:24:09.720 were similar to Adam in the garden in a state of innocence.

00:24:12.940 You could use that phrasing in a state of innocence, but able to fall.

00:24:17.380 So not immutable, meaning that you're secure in your innocence and unable to pervert that innocence.

00:24:26.260 So the angels in heaven were in a state of innocence.

00:24:28.860 They were unfallen but still able to fall.

00:24:32.040 If you've ever, you know, the Christmas movie, It's a Wonderful Life.

00:24:36.440 Every time you hear a bell ring, an angel gets its wings.

00:24:40.080 you know i i think there's a case to be made uh that you know that that angels that maybe it was

00:24:46.620 even on on an individual task based assignment uh that angels did did you know were called by god

00:24:53.260 to do something they fulfilled that something um and then didn't achieve innocence which they

00:24:58.100 already had speaking of unfallen angels but then were uh were solidified the cement uh hardens and

00:25:04.260 they become immutable unable to fall but the point is this um angels unlike man without federal

00:25:09.660 headship, we all fell in Adam. That's what Brian was talking about. It was so helpful with covenant

00:25:14.280 theology and this idea of being represented. And if you don't like the idea of, well, I don't want

00:25:18.460 to be represented by Adam. Well, then you can't be represented by Christ. That's the way federal

00:25:22.400 headship works. And so you did sin in Adam. But angels doesn't work like that. Angels would have

00:25:27.680 to fall individually because there are no angel fathers, right? And there are no angel kids. And

00:25:33.440 so all these angels fell at once, several angels, each individually making this decision to rebel

00:25:39.320 against God, but not all these fallen angels necessarily tried to pervert and corrupt the

00:25:44.780 Messianic line by taking the daughters of men and creating Cyrene offspring. But some did. And so

00:25:51.860 the question of how did the Nephilim return after the flood, right? Because it's like, well, what

00:25:56.620 was the whole point of the flood? It seems as though part of the reason that God sends a global,

00:26:01.820 you know, despite Gavin Horton, God bless his heart, but, you know, a global flood that floods 0.83

00:26:07.060 the whole earth, it seems like the whole point was to wipe out the Nephilim, and it's not really, 0.89

00:26:12.800 doesn't feel like a good position to take that God failed somehow. So I don't, you know, I don't

00:26:17.100 agree with the position of, you know, Gilgamesh or Og hanging on to the side of the ark, and I

00:26:22.780 don't agree with even, you know, one of the daughters-in-law of Noah, you know, having the

00:26:29.440 Nephilim DNA, and that's how it continued. No, I think that the angels did it again, and that's what 0.89

00:26:36.020 you see in Genesis 6 is that the word is actually whenever the sons of God, not just when, like one

00:26:42.880 moment, one time, but whenever, at least leaving room, not necessary inference, but at least

00:26:48.080 plausible implication that they did it more than once. Not the same angels, but again, all these

00:26:53.480 angels, the control group, original group, they fell, a subgroup of that before the flood took 0.90

00:26:58.980 the daughters of men and created the Nephilim, and then the ones that did that, they, as punishment 0.97

00:27:04.480 for such an abominable crime against God 0.94

00:27:06.600 were locked in gloomy dungeons.

00:27:08.020 The other ones were still on the earth.

00:27:09.600 So still fallen from heaven,

00:27:11.420 but not yet locked in gloomy dungeons.

00:27:13.360 Now the flood is over.

00:27:14.740 And then some of them, round two, 0.88

00:27:16.980 try to create a second batch of Nephilim. 0.84

00:27:20.260 And this would be like Numbers now,

00:27:21.700 which is post-flood where Joshua,

00:27:23.640 I don't think it's the 10 spies are lying.

00:27:26.300 I think the indictment of the 10 spies

00:27:28.500 is not that they bring a lying report,

00:27:30.420 a false report, but they bring a bad report.

00:27:32.880 And the bad report is not that they tell something that's untrue, but the fact that they're fearful, that there are Nephilim among, you know, the inhabitants of Jericho and the land of Canaan.

00:27:42.160 And these are not just giants that are, you know, could play in the NBA.

00:27:45.980 That's what you always hear.

00:27:46.720 Like, oh, we still have Nephilim today.

00:27:48.280 They're in the NBA. 1.00

00:27:49.080 No, no, no.

00:27:49.440 We're not talking about guys who are a little bit tall.

00:27:52.420 These are, I think, man-eating giants.

00:27:55.960 They're big, like really, really big.

00:27:57.680 And I think that Numbers, it's not a lie because they're apathetic and don't want to go and take the land.

00:28:03.580 I think they're telling the truth.

00:28:05.360 And their condemnation is not that they lied or deceived, but the fact that despite the opposition, they didn't have faith in God.

00:28:13.020 And so all that back to Atlantis, the king of Atlantis.

00:28:16.780 I'm getting there.

00:28:17.800 But all that back to the king of Atlantis. 0.98

00:28:20.560 I think that he was a lowercase g god. 0.82

00:28:23.640 And when we say the gods, God alone, the triune God, Yahweh, is the only eternal God. 0.52

00:28:30.460 And Jesus Christ, in the beginning, was the Word.

00:28:32.500 The Word was with God.

00:28:33.340 And so Christ is not created, but he is the creator.

00:28:36.340 Through him, all things were made.

00:28:38.340 But there were, in a sense, other gods.

00:28:41.980 And this idea that some of these gods, that they would be particularized,

00:28:46.400 that there would be a God who had a certain power over waters or the ocean,

00:28:51.940 like a Poseidon-type figure.

00:28:53.240 And then river god, a forest god, and things like that.

00:28:57.240 And this particular ocean god would set up a kingdom, a city, near the ocean that now we're like, that doesn't make sense.

00:29:05.120 It's a desert.

00:29:05.700 But at the time, near the ocean, and have sons with daughters of men, Nephilim, ten of them.

00:29:11.600 All this fits within a biblical narrative.

00:29:13.660 And to steal an example, in case you want, like, well, give me some biblical examples of this.

00:29:18.220 This is something I learned from Ben.

00:29:19.600 um so you have there are elohim talked about in scriptures a word that can refer to the the one

00:29:27.460 true god can also refer to other beings psalm 82 is an example of this where there's a debate is

00:29:33.020 this referring to human rulers is it referring to some kind of divine counsel of spiritual beings

00:29:38.320 that are created but that was essentially like a mediating counsel through which god achieved his

00:29:43.320 purposes in heaven and on earth we see that kind of thing happening uh in scripture where angels go

00:29:49.240 in the book of Daniel, and I wrestled with the prince of Persia for this many weeks, Daniel,

00:29:54.980 before I could bring this message. So we know that happens. But even if you look at the plagues in

00:30:00.220 Egypt, and this is what I learned from Ben, you look at the progression of the plagues where the

00:30:06.360 wise or the magicians of Pharaoh's court, they were able to match some of the signs that Moses

00:30:13.960 and Aaron were doing in God's name. Now God brings the first plague, and then the Nile turned to

00:30:21.160 blood. Yeah, first plague is the water turning to blood. And that was, you know... A god. It was a

00:30:28.440 god. It was the god of the river's flooding that gave a good crop yield. And so God judges, you

00:30:36.440 know, hey, this river that you worship, watch me kill him. So he kills him, and his blood fills the 1.00

00:30:42.580 isle um the problem is that the magicians can do that too oh they turn water to blood conscious

00:30:47.900 you know and i love john calvin contra someone like calvin it doesn't say that it was an illusion

00:30:52.280 it said that they did it no and this is like the prince of egypt where the movie i mean where they

00:30:57.680 have the magicians this is our anti-supernaturalist thinking getting in we think oh here this was

00:31:02.760 david blaine who may actually be a demon yeah honestly that's a bad example you know he may

00:31:08.040 actually time traveling demon uh it may actually be something they're able to actually it just says

00:31:13.540 that they do this thing but when you just smoke a mirror when you get into the third plague though

00:31:17.300 the frogs well so the frogs is two oh yeah sorry and the the fascinating thing is that so once the

00:31:23.480 river flooded once the nile flooded all of the frogs would still put their eggs on the banks of

00:31:29.740 the nile but now the banks of the nile are closer to the people's homes and they're closer to the

00:31:33.960 crops. So eventually what that meant is that all of these frogs would start to show up closer to

00:31:41.600 people's houses, and they would know, ah, it's time for a good crop yield. And so the goddess

00:31:47.740 of fertility, crop yield, fruitfulness, was a woman with a head of a frog. They associated the frog

00:31:55.500 with fertility, and it makes a lot of sense. God said, oh, well, this frog that you worship for

00:32:00.120 fertility, I'll tell you what, I'll kill her too. And now if you love fertility so much, well now 1.00

00:32:05.340 you got frogs in your bed. Good luck having a good time with that. But the other thing is that

00:32:11.220 oftentimes in these pantheon of gods and goddesses, you had primary roles and then sub-rolls. And so

00:32:17.000 one of the sub-rolls of this goddess of fertility, and this is common in Greece and in most ancient

00:32:21.720 cultures, was she was also the goddess of necromancy and witchcraft. And so the Egyptian 0.90

00:32:28.540 magicians are able to match 1.00

00:32:30.800 that plague. Pound for pound, they're going.

00:32:32.460 They're able to give the frogs, they're able

00:32:34.520 to put the water into the

00:32:36.220 blood into the water, 0.74

00:32:38.340 but once their goddess of 0.96

00:32:40.460 necromancy is dead,

00:32:42.600 they can't match them anymore. 1.00

00:32:44.320 They can't do their witchcraft anymore. They can't do it.

00:32:46.320 Because witchcraft

00:32:47.560 is not, you know, we think of, in our term,

00:32:50.420 we think J.K. Rowling, okay, there's this

00:32:52.020 force, this ethereal force that

00:32:53.940 Harry Potter

00:32:56.300 is tapping into.

00:32:57.820 the boy who lived come to die that's our owen wilson as voldemore impersonation wow

00:33:02.140 they necromancy and witchcraft isn't just tapping into an ethereal force that's like gravity or

00:33:08.880 electromagnetism it's actually um manipulating spiritual entities to achieve ends that are

00:33:16.720 contrary to nature that you you want to achieve so you're actually more like the witch of endor

00:33:21.560 with Samuel using a familiar spirit, a demonic entity or a spiritual entity that is telling you

00:33:29.180 things, or an ax, the girl that had the demon that would allow her to prophesy and foretell

00:33:34.960 that was bringing great gain to her masters. So what's fascinating in this story in Egypt,

00:33:41.040 and I think it demonstrates the actual spiritual reality of some of these false gods

00:33:46.000 as actual spiritual beings who maybe were

00:33:50.220 and definitely were pretending and holding themselves up

00:33:54.100 as I'm a God to be worshipped.

00:33:56.900 They ought to have been servants of the one true living God

00:33:59.480 like the angels that didn't fall were.

00:34:01.540 Instead held themselves up for worship.

00:34:03.980 And here God shows up, judges this God,

00:34:06.500 and then all of a sudden the magicians lose their ability

00:34:09.820 because the spirit that was helping them

00:34:11.900 was judged by the true God.

00:34:14.580 And why that matters is because it doesn't devalue, it elevates Christ.

00:34:19.160 It elevates Yahweh, the one true God.

00:34:22.800 Like, for instance, so I think of the book of Job.

00:34:26.160 Satan has power in the Job narrative to command the wind, right?

00:34:34.520 Because one of the things that Satan does to torment Job, all this underneath the banner of God's sovereignty,

00:34:40.200 he's only allowed to do what God allows.

00:34:43.000 But in one of the cases, it's not just the, you know, the Chaldeans and the theft of the camels 0.87

00:34:48.400 and this over here and that over there, the fire with the donkeys, but also the house, 0.68

00:34:52.680 a great wind comes up and causes, you know, the collapse of this house where Job's children are

00:35:00.080 gathered and they're killed. And we know that, you know, from the text, the implication is that

00:35:05.980 satan is behind the wind and that doesn't make christ and the gospel narratives less in my

00:35:12.240 opinion it makes them more so when we see the disciples and jesus you know in the middle of

00:35:17.140 the sea of galilee on a boat and there's a great storm and jesus you know is asleep and then he all

00:35:22.700 of a sudden is woken up because they're about to perish and he cries out you know he really doesn't

00:35:28.000 cry out he just you know nonchalantly says uh hey wind waves cut it out and and they're shocked

00:35:34.360 right who is this who has the authority right it's a it's a it's a statement of authority who has the

00:35:40.600 authority to command even the wind and waves and they obey him and so then our takeaway i think

00:35:44.620 sometimes is um that what makes jesus the one true god um is that he alone he has the exclusive

00:35:53.460 authority over wind and waves but what if just submitting it for your own careful biblical

00:35:59.240 prayerful consideration. What if part of the reason the disciples, as very experienced fishermen who

00:36:05.860 had been in storms on the sea before, what if the reason they're so terrified is that they know that

00:36:10.160 this particular storm is so severe that it must have a supernatural origin, that this is no

00:36:15.660 ordinary storm, and that there's actually another God, lowercase g, God, that has power over wind

00:36:21.560 and waves and is causing this storm in the first place. So what Jesus is silencing is not just wind

00:36:26.620 waves and nature, which he does have authority over. But in addition, not less than that, but

00:36:31.560 more, he is also silencing every other God because he's more powerful. And then to take that further,

00:36:38.120 when Jesus walks on water, what if he's trampling, he's not just defying nature and physics to show

00:36:44.460 that he is the God who created nature and physics, but he is also trampling over the gods, that there

00:36:51.360 There are water gods and water kingdoms that control wind and waves and storms,

00:36:56.000 and Jesus is actually putting them under his feet.

00:36:59.620 I think it's worth doing a little legwork to show why we would say,

00:37:04.740 like, what use does God have in setting some spiritual, angelic-type being

00:37:10.180 over a geographical area or an elemental area like a river, a sea, a mountain?

00:37:16.500 I think that it's worth doing a little bit of work to show why he might do that.

00:37:20.880 And I would, first of all, use the Exodus story as an example of that very explicitly happening.

00:37:26.020 You have a river God, and he's actually there.

00:37:28.440 But we also know that God just loves to use means.

00:37:32.620 He could have created the world in less than an instant.

00:37:34.980 Instead, he chose to take his time.

00:37:37.580 He took six days.

00:37:39.160 He could have created just man.

00:37:42.180 Instead, he created a bunch of creatures that man can rule over in his stead as his vicegerent. 0.76

00:37:46.920 He could have just implanted his word into the minds of every Israelite whenever they needed

00:37:52.540 to repent, but instead he sent prophets. He could have just implanted his word directly into the

00:37:57.260 minds of the prophets, but instead oftentimes he sent an angelic messenger to inform the prophet.

00:38:02.300 We know that God loves to use means. There's just something in his nature that loves to see the

00:38:07.920 creation that he thought up work gloriously in the vein that he created it in. God takes

00:38:16.520 great pleasure in things following their nature in the way that he ordained them. And so I don't

00:38:22.820 think that it's superfluous to propose that there could be sort of elemental spirits that are

00:38:29.200 governing different regions of the world. I mean, we know that this is true from texts like

00:38:34.500 Daniel 10, the prince of Persia, that's clearly an angelic being. Exodus 28 is speaking of the

00:38:40.900 prince of Tyre, and then the king of Tyre. And the king of Tyre is a guardian cherub who fell

00:38:47.940 in pride. So he's elevating the authority when he's speaking to the spiritual entity instead of

00:38:54.520 to the just human king and authority. And so I think that it's actually very natural to go from

00:39:01.220 that and other ideas of the stars being governors of the days and the months and the years and

00:39:08.640 things like that, and say, well, it seems to make perfect sense then that if we live in a world in

00:39:13.640 which the visible and the invisible are overlaid and interwoven tightly on one another, that

00:39:20.000 everywhere, Brian likes to say this a lot, so it's not me, but everywhere you pull on the visible,

00:39:25.780 you're also tugging a little bit on the invisible. Everywhere there is a river flowing, there is God

00:39:33.260 in his sovereign decree giving command to that river to flow, but what if he's also, which would

00:39:40.140 be very on-brand for him, using another intermediate servant of his to govern that river? So that's

00:39:47.900 just a really quick, again, for your prayerful consideration, legwork to show why this could very

00:39:54.500 well be reasonable. And the reason why some of this is important, getting back to the major

00:39:58.800 theme of you know why do something like haunted cosmos um the reason why it's important a number

00:40:04.560 of reasons but one is i think the world right now is and i'm not the first person to say this many

00:40:09.480 people have said it but joe i think of joe rigney there's but the world is desperate to re-enchant

00:40:14.240 itself in part because uh secular humanism and darwinianism and materialism have been

00:40:20.440 so absolutely detrimental to society and culture and everybody feels it not just believers

00:40:27.740 Like everybody, like Joe Rogan is saying, it turns out we need Jesus.

00:40:32.360 Now, just for the record, one thing that would be nice, we were talking about this, you know, offline a little bit before we came on.

00:40:37.840 But one thing that would be nice, I think of Bill Maher.

00:40:41.220 He's the, you know, the pinnacle example of this.

00:40:43.580 You know, the little meme picture, you know, that says, you know, I didn't move.

00:40:52.580 I didn't change.

00:40:53.340 The left left me.

00:40:54.640 And it shows that guy, you know, and he used to be a moderate.

00:40:57.060 in the middle, and then it shows, you know, wokeness and how everybody just went so far

00:41:01.460 left. And so really all that is, it's a cope. And the biblical word for it would be just rank

00:41:09.240 and penitence. So what Bill Maher wants to do is he wants to say, look, I'm the reasonable one here

00:41:14.120 and you guys, the problem is that people just went too far. They were too crazy. What he doesn't 0.53

00:41:17.880 want to acknowledge is that this is the exact consistent fruit of everything I gave my life

00:41:22.220 to build this thing that i hate i made it like joe rogan really we need jesus you're gonna say

00:41:28.740 we need jesus when you've been mocking jesus for 30 years publicly like james lindsey the new

00:41:36.560 atheist right and and now you're gonna oh now you're gonna realize you know because now it's

00:41:41.580 encroaching on your your skill and your academic discourse right because it turns out you need

00:41:46.820 little things like logic and reason and they're not just hanging in midair you actually need the

00:41:52.140 Christian worldview, to continue to mock the Christian worldview? Like, isn't that ironic? 0.61

00:41:57.340 You know? And that's where we are now. And so, you know, it's this argument of, you know,

00:42:02.200 I'm a moderate or I'm reasonable or whatever. But really what it is, is a refusal to repent and say,

00:42:06.900 this is, I'm Frankenstein and this is the monster that I made. And that's Bill Maher,

00:42:12.020 that's Joe Rogan, that's James Lindsay. And what happens societally is that,

00:42:16.640 And Jesus tells of this exact pattern happening with a person, a household, that you banish a

00:42:22.540 demon and then you can sweep it clean, the house. But then if you don't fill it, that he'll come

00:42:28.720 back, he'll go through waterless places, he'll come back with seven worse. So what happened,

00:42:32.660 if you picture the West as a house, is that Christianity went out and it leavened and it

00:42:38.620 converted the nations and the Germanic pagans and it killed their gods and all, you know, Thor is 0.87

00:42:43.780 dead and christ is king and we swept the house and we really did fill the house with christ 0.71

00:42:48.780 but then apostasy happened on a mass national and cultural scale and so now what happened is that

00:42:55.780 natural materialism the which is just not like i like buying things it's the idea that there is

00:43:02.040 only stuff that just the material world is all there is um it it's it banished it exercised

00:43:08.220 christianity and apostasy from the house and then it said oh this is great the house is clean they

00:43:13.220 thought. We got rid of God. And what's happening is that societally, that doesn't hold. Materialism 0.93

00:43:20.440 is so stupid and impossible to believe. People are just not white. People are worshiping creatures. 1.00

00:43:27.120 We were made to worship. And so instead of getting this, what they thought would be neat,

00:43:32.600 tidy materialism, what we're getting instead is people doing DMT and talking to serpent gods.

00:43:38.740 We're getting the old gods returning.

00:43:41.400 We're getting people filling the house with all the old demons and with spiritual things.

00:43:47.780 So one of the reasons that we said, why a show like Haunted Cosmos?

00:43:51.720 What are we trying to do?

00:43:53.060 Well, it's apologetic in nature. 1.00

00:43:54.980 It's didactic for Christians, but it's also a show where we're saying, 0.96

00:43:59.100 no, world, don't go back to the old gods. 0.98

00:44:03.820 Don't go back to the old gods.

00:44:05.400 You actually need the Holy Spirit.

00:44:06.860 You need Christ to come, not just for us to tell you the true history that you're twisting and mythologizing with all of the paganism and false spirituality and demonic spirituality and human sacrifice and all these things that are just roaring back to life.

00:44:22.780 You actually need the Holy Spirit.

00:44:24.800 So pray legitimately, pray for, as silly as it sounds, like pray for the Bigfoot podcast.

00:44:32.140 That sounds really weird. 0.99

00:44:33.480 But non-Christians email us all the time. 0.67

00:44:35.560 And people who are not Christians are listening and being compelled, and I think the Lord is using it to actually reach non-Christians with the gospel because of this exact pattern that you're talking about.

00:44:49.940 Yeah, and one of the things that we really believe is that people are compelled by story.

00:44:56.480 People are compelled by things that are good, true, and beautiful, and story encapsulates those three things really effectively when it's done well.

00:45:05.460 And so it's no secret that one of the aspects of the world that we focus on heavily on Haunted

00:45:12.860 Cosmos is the darker thing. We do think that Christians ought to be interested so far as is 0.69

00:45:20.340 appropriate in the things that are a little bit scary, the things that are sad, the things that

00:45:25.380 are tragic, because those things are real, because they're real in the world. And it's the world that

00:45:32.560 God made, and it's the story he's telling. So we have to be interested. We have to read. We have

00:45:37.820 to understand the story that we're in. So yeah, we focus on that a lot, but the main tenor and

00:45:43.080 thrust of the show that we hope comes through is that those things are only so dark because there

00:45:48.840 is real light that's there. There's real glory that's there. We've just been blind to it. You

00:45:54.900 know, our eyes have become like unto our hearts, hardened, crusted over. And so we need them to

00:46:00.100 have the scales removed once again, and see the glorious light for what it is. But in order to do

00:46:05.420 that, especially when you're talking to a world that's been so catechized by materialism, is to

00:46:10.220 show them, like, look how ugly. Look how scary. Yeah, sometimes it's entertaining. Sometimes,

00:46:15.100 you know, Bigfoot stories are goofy. But yeah, look how ugly that is. Look how beautiful that is.

00:46:22.020 Sometimes it is, I mean, the scriptures do this all the time. Sometimes the threat is effective.

00:46:27.300 sometimes the threat of judgment the Westminster says we should tremble at the threats of apostasy

00:46:33.240 and what comes from that why so that we can better appreciate the blessings we should tremble at the

00:46:39.160 threats of the darkness so that we can better relish in the safety and security and the peace

00:46:43.840 of the living God and the light that he gives us because we only see light through his light

00:46:48.700 because he is light so you have to show the the world what you're going to get when you get out

00:46:56.000 of his life. And that's not just atheism, and that's not just, it's not merely killing children.

00:47:02.980 It is that. It's certainly not less than that, but it's sacrificing children to a demon god. 0.92

00:47:08.480 That is a real thing.

00:47:09.940 That is real. It's not a figment of the imagination. You're sacrificing to a demon goddess

00:47:15.480 who wants you and every other image bearer to die because that's how much she or whatever hates God. 0.81

00:47:22.220 Yeah. If you hate God, you'll hate God everywhere you see him, and you see him most clearly.

00:47:26.000 in the face of man, the image bearer.

00:47:29.440 Some people have objected and said,

00:47:31.120 why tell dark stories?

00:47:32.640 Why tell scary stories?

00:47:34.020 Isn't this just glorying in the macabre?

00:47:36.500 And isn't this that kind of thing?

00:47:37.460 And I say, well, for the same reason

00:47:39.360 that when Tolkien tells the story of Helm's Deep,

00:47:43.020 he doesn't skip over the orcs, right?

00:47:46.020 When Tolkien tells the story of...

00:47:48.460 Ungoliant.

00:47:49.060 Of Ungoliant, he doesn't just whitewash 0.90

00:47:52.260 over all of the vomit of her darkness, right? 0.87

00:47:54.580 In order for the Christian story to be fully told, it's also a story that includes deep, deep darkness, something I talked about in the talk yesterday that the scriptures plumb the depths of death and darkness. 0.97

00:48:08.640 And they do so so that Jesus Christ can stride in to Israel, which has become like an Egypt, overrun with unclean spirits and worshiping false gods and demanding the blood of children, which all that's true. 0.98

00:48:22.000 Jesus can stride in and he can send them into the abyss and he can clean the land he can bring 1.00

00:48:28.500 healing from all the death and he can truly conquer right so that God can show off the only 0.80

00:48:34.140 way that God gets to show off his left hook you know is is if he uses his right arm to hold up

00:48:40.680 his opponent right when you're infinite and all of your enemies are like grasshoppers that you

00:48:47.980 You know, like when we think of Yahweh, the triune God, the God of Israel, we think of his majesty and his power, we think of the God who parted the Red Sea.

00:48:58.940 We think of the ten plagues of Egypt.

00:49:01.040 The only reason we have ten is because God is throwing out plague after plague with one hand and having to supernaturally hold up Pharaoh with the other so that he doesn't tap out after one plague.

00:49:12.360 You know, like that's this idea of him supernaturally hardening Pharaoh's heart.

00:49:16.140 It required a divine miracle just to get a guy to be stubborn enough to say, hit me again.

00:49:23.800 You know, like, so that's, you know, so anyways.

00:49:27.780 But all that being said with the, you know, the world is not just stuff and the world wanting to re-enchant itself to put it, you know, to bring it home a little bit more for us.

00:49:35.960 I think that the reformed world has been particularly bad at this. 0.99

00:49:39.700 like I think Christians maybe in general

00:49:42.040 but especially us reformed folk

00:49:43.880 and that's one of the reasons why I'm appreciative

00:49:45.620 of Haunted Cosmos because yeah

00:49:47.820 there's a lot of podcasts in this space right now

00:49:50.020 but you guys

00:49:51.940 are one of the only people I know

00:49:53.880 that's I mean most of them are Christian

00:49:55.780 but like honestly if you're ever wondering

00:49:57.840 you're listening to whatever it is

00:49:59.700 you know Blurry Creatures they're

00:50:01.340 great guys you know or there's different

00:50:03.660 podcasts but if you're ever wondering what's their eschatology

00:50:06.120 dispensational premillennialism

00:50:08.220 guaranteed um every single one of them um you know they uh you know they read the left behind

00:50:13.280 series and uh that was good enough for them right and so um that's like every single one of these

00:50:19.000 guys in the unhinged high strangeness space is like 90 percent of them are professing christians

00:50:24.640 but they're all usually you know ultra charismatic just just being frank they're ultra charismatic

00:50:30.940 they're pre-mail they're dispy and that's that there's very little seat belt right and then the

00:50:36.300 Reformed folks are just too sophisticated. 0.99

00:50:41.260 Not all of them, believe it or not, like Haunted Cosmos. 1.00

00:50:43.660 Yeah, exactly.

00:50:44.460 And so that's my point is that I think the Reformed Church,

00:50:48.740 our wing of evangelicalism, we've made two mistakes, really,

00:50:53.280 not just one, but two mistakes.

00:50:54.880 On the one hand, we've spiritualized everything.

00:50:58.320 So that gets back to the pietism thing that we were talking about.

00:51:01.260 Everything's spiritual.

00:51:02.360 So if on Twitter you say, hey, maybe men should work out,

00:51:05.020 and physical strength, you know, if physical training is, the Bible doesn't say is of no

00:51:09.520 value, you know, it's not equal with training for godliness, nobody's saying that, but Paul says

00:51:15.460 he doesn't say equal value, he also doesn't say no value, he says some value, you know, so

00:51:19.460 GM kings hit the gym today, right, and who loses their mind? Reform Twitter, right, it's the

00:51:27.140 reform guys, they're like, what? Something practical, tangible, physical, never, you know, or...

00:51:34.300 You shouldn't be lifting those weights.

00:51:36.420 You've got to be lifting the Bible. 0.79

00:51:37.840 Right. 0.87

00:51:38.180 Or if it's sundresses and sourdough.

00:51:40.080 Right, again, because it's practical.

00:51:41.460 It's physical.

00:51:41.920 Now.

00:51:43.320 Now.

00:51:44.260 Headship in theory only.

00:51:46.420 No application.

00:51:48.080 The Wonder Bread becomes sourdough once you partake of it.

00:51:54.460 That's funny.

00:51:55.020 Just along with the grape juice.

00:51:56.380 That was good.

00:51:57.800 That hurts.

00:51:58.880 It doesn't hurt me.

00:51:59.500 Are you booing grape?

00:52:00.440 We're wine.

00:52:01.160 Why are you booing me?

00:52:02.100 I'm right.

00:52:02.560 But all that means, so my point is, on the one hand, and this is the irony.

00:52:08.020 So I think there's two mistakes that the Reform Camp makes on this topic that we're addressing this afternoon.

00:52:13.140 One, we spiritualize everything.

00:52:15.540 A lot of our good brothers and sisters that we love that are right, they're right on justification, right?

00:52:20.820 They're right on a lot of stuff.

00:52:22.280 They're right on the gospel.

00:52:23.780 But on this issue, they miss it two ways.

00:52:26.820 On one hand, they're pietistic, and they over-spiritualize, right? 0.91

00:52:31.820 So that something practical like working out, the physical world is of virtually no value. 0.87

00:52:37.660 But on the other hand, when it does come to thinking about the physical world, they're not spiritual at all.

00:52:46.340 It's only materialism.

00:52:48.740 It's only, well, this is, you know, actually Einstein said, you know, it's like Calvin's approach. 0.77

00:52:55.340 That he wouldn't even engage the fallen angel view because it's just, his argument is, oh, that's silly, that's preposterous.

00:53:00.900 and I won't even give it a second thought. 0.70

00:53:02.500 Even still, you know where I get there?

00:53:03.800 Rare Calvin L, by the way.

00:53:05.360 They're rare.

00:53:06.680 It's usually a W.

00:53:08.120 You know where the idea of fallen angels

00:53:09.680 reigning over geographic locations comes from?

00:53:12.200 Calvin.

00:53:13.220 In his commentaries on Genesis.

00:53:15.020 Really? 0.76

00:53:15.440 So even Calvin was not such a dullard as we are now. 0.81

00:53:19.480 I mean, of course he wasn't.

00:53:20.680 But yeah, he dismissed certain things,

00:53:24.000 but even still he lived and he was inheriting

00:53:26.380 overall a glorious renaissance view of the world

00:53:29.940 that I think was quite well-balanced for a while

00:53:32.580 until the Enlightenment people came along.

00:53:35.040 So my point is, I think the two ways is,

00:53:37.460 on one hand, you can be pietistic,

00:53:39.680 especially our Reformed brothers and sisters,

00:53:41.500 of which many of us are, I am.

00:53:44.000 You can over-spiritualize, be pietistic.

00:53:47.280 On the other hand, when you're moving 0.57

00:53:50.100 from the spiritual category to the physical world,

00:53:53.640 you can be too materialistic.

00:53:55.080 So the problem is basically seeing these two things

00:53:59.600 as completely and utterly divorced from one another,

00:54:02.580 that they're completely severed.

00:54:04.580 And so I think the trick is to say the world is not just stuff.

00:54:08.840 And at the same time, to also say GM kings

00:54:12.360 and bust out a couple reps, the world is also stuff.

00:54:16.320 You know, it's both.

00:54:17.900 And I mean, it's impressive when you really think of it,

00:54:20.740 but the reformed people have found a way to fail at both simultaneously.

00:54:25.360 We failed with the world being stuff and the world not being stuff.

00:54:28.520 And so what we want to say is it's both. It is this physical world that God has made.

00:54:33.020 There's a spiritual reality, and the idea that the two shall never meet, that is not biblical.

00:54:39.460 In the physical, you were trying to obey the nature as God wrote it.

00:54:45.840 Men, you were made for strength. Be strong.

00:54:49.320 Women, you were made for glorious fruitfulness. Be fruitful, right? 1.00

00:54:54.000 In the supernatural world, we're testing the spirits, we're testing the spirits, and so that we can see through the deception of even the spiritual powers that would appear as angel of light.

00:55:05.940 And that's another thing we're trying to do here is demonstrate the banality of demons, that alien abductions, Bigfoot stories, and many other ghost and ghost stories all share these commonalities because they're often the same deception wearing a different mask. 0.75

00:55:29.020 And so Christians need to be able to see through that, test the spirit, say, ah, that's a deception. 0.89

00:55:33.680 I can tell you what kind of deception it is and tell their neighbor the answer isn't to be taken 0.98

00:55:38.860 in by that deception. It's to worship Christ. Amen. My family's been in and out right now.

00:55:44.640 My oldest is still here. The little ones are doing nap time. But my oldest, Olive, is over there with

00:55:50.860 Nana. Olive, did you know that four weeks ago, remember when dad was in the studio all day long

00:55:55.900 and I told you I was working? Did you know dad has work that week was talking about mermaids for 12

00:56:01.000 hours it's pretty cool huh good job your dad has a cool job um so all right so uh all that being

00:56:07.860 said we you know a promise is a promise i i feel like you know we can land the plane with some

00:56:12.460 primary water primary water we gotta do primary water so back to atlantis and these fountains

00:56:16.740 coming from the center and there's these three concentric you know circles i've been out from

00:56:21.740 that ben do you want to go first and then i'll give my thoughts too but what what is if you could

00:56:26.460 give a basic, I know it's my thing, but you're smarter than me. What is simple definition,

00:56:31.840 primary water? Okay, you're too kind. Okay, so my understanding is that the largely accepted view

00:56:41.400 as it stands now of the origin of water on the earth is the atmospheric view. So we have the

00:56:47.500 water cycle, you know, evaporation, and then condensation, precipitation, and it just recycles

00:56:52.520 itself so you have really really old water it's all been here for a really long time if we ever

00:56:57.140 need or if we ever get new water it has to come from off world an asteroid lands it's full of ice

00:57:03.740 we get more water um or or some other weird event some other act of god fills the ocean over

00:57:09.380 billions of years yeah exactly but uh the view that primary water posits is what if that's not

00:57:15.360 true what if we're actually having new water made in the earth on the earth and in the earth all the

00:57:21.020 time. So the massive amounts of heat and pressure that are found underneath the earth's surface and

00:57:27.920 closer to its center, mixing with all the minerals and the elements that we find and granite and

00:57:33.280 nice and basalt and all this stuff can actually create water as a chemical deposit that then

00:57:40.800 fills caverns that are in the earth. And then when tectonic plates shift or when there's an

00:57:47.040 existing shaft that goes up to the earth's surface and there's a critical mass of water within it,

00:57:52.100 it shoots up to the surface and we get new water. So the idea with this is that like where it lands

00:57:58.860 is that yes, we'd be constantly making new water on the earth. But why that's important is because

00:58:05.040 instead of drinking water that's 5,000 years old, you'd be drinking water that's six days old.

00:58:10.460 and it's nutrient dense

00:58:13.080 that's actually

00:58:15.640 where we start to get into some practical stuff

00:58:17.620 right so

00:58:18.180 two I mean it could be limitless but two

00:58:21.420 just hypothetical

00:58:22.400 conceptions of uses or purposes

00:58:25.620 of primary water would be one would be

00:58:27.460 beautification that you could actually eradicate

00:58:29.440 deserts in theory

00:58:30.600 and then the second though would be like

00:58:33.360 so that kind of gets the Atlantean idea

00:58:35.260 not just the Atlantean of old but

00:58:37.460 a restored Atlantis

00:58:38.660 Joel's about to talk about the fountain of youth.

00:58:40.500 I'm about to go off, yeah.

00:58:41.580 But then the other is elongated life, the fountain of youth.

00:58:45.240 And so in a biblical perspective, fountain of youth, right?

00:58:48.580 So in a biblical perspective, think of Isaiah 65.

00:58:51.660 And so within the framework of a hopeful post-millennial eschatology, Isaiah 65 is such a great passage because it talks about how at that time the youth shall die at 100.

00:59:03.580 and no longer shall anyone, you know, any child die in infancy, which you just, if you're taking

00:59:09.740 God at his word there, that's not just diseases where a child would die in infancy, but that would

00:59:15.420 eradicate all miscarriages, and that certainly would include all abortion. So a time would come

00:59:20.680 where abortion actually is abolished completely, and not just some rhino Republican saying there's 0.81

00:59:28.140 no more abortion in our state. Meanwhile, you know, women are taking potions and pills, but 0.96

00:59:32.000 No, really abolished, truly abolished. 0.90

00:59:34.220 And not only just premeditated murder, which is what abortion is,

00:59:37.540 but also disease and miscarriage and these kinds of things, which is incredible.

00:59:42.420 But not just the infancy thing, but back to the youth shall die at 100.

00:59:46.180 You think of the way that lifespans have already increased, you know,

00:59:49.040 just in the last few hundred years, where there was a time not that long ago

00:59:53.760 in the big scope of things where people, you know, if somebody died at 50,

00:59:57.620 you know, people would say, wow, he lived a long life.

00:59:59.640 You know, whereas if somebody dies at 50 years old today, we would say, you know, man, they were so young, right?

01:00:06.040 And in a sense, you know, to paraphrase that, we would say he was just a youth, right?

01:00:10.080 So when Isaiah 65 is saying the youth shall die at 100, what it's saying is that if someone dies at 100, that person, relatively speaking, is young, which presupposes the idea that, you know, like a Ricky Bobby kind of situation.

01:00:22.360 You know, nobody lives forever, but, you know, 250, 265, you know, with my high-level income.

01:00:27.320 Anyways, so some of you don't get the quote

01:00:29.100 because you're more righteous than I.

01:00:32.080 Good on you.

01:00:32.860 You don't even know what I'm talking about.

01:00:34.180 I would never, never watch Will Ferrell.

01:00:37.300 So anyways, it's a Will Ferrell quote.

01:00:39.960 But it's the idea.

01:00:41.440 The point is this.

01:00:42.140 The youth shall still die at 100.

01:00:43.860 This is not heaven, right?

01:00:46.320 Because in heaven, at what age do people die in heaven?

01:00:50.560 Never, right?

01:00:51.420 You know, trick question.

01:00:52.660 Great.

01:00:54.140 You've passed.

01:00:55.300 Nobody dies in heaven.

01:00:56.560 So this is still on earth in the millennial kingdom, but before the final physical return of Christ.

01:01:04.020 So it's, you know, depending on your position, it's what some post-millennial guys would conceive of as like a golden age.

01:01:12.460 This, you know, and maybe that is a literal thousand years, not the whole millennial kingdom itself,

01:01:17.660 but maybe this, you know, this final portion of it, a golden age where the nations no longer know war,

01:01:23.160 where infancy, mortality is completely eradicated

01:01:27.040 and where there's this lengthening of life

01:01:28.980 where if you died 100, you were young.

01:01:31.120 And so the average lifespan at that point is much longer.

01:01:35.060 And I like to think that Christmas time,

01:01:39.200 everybody's post-millennial when it's Christmas.

01:01:41.020 And you're singing, he comes to make his blessings flow

01:01:45.280 as far as the curse is found.

01:01:48.340 And I like to think that maybe the second and final Adam, Christ,

01:01:53.160 would beat the first Adam even in lifespans that before heaven in this gospel age towards the end 0.55

01:02:00.780 of it that uh that the first person to live to be a thousand years old could happen you know I like

01:02:06.080 to think of just the gospel that'll preach you know and so um so that idea is well what if it's

01:02:13.080 not just um that we're elongating lifespans uh but the quality of life is that you're just

01:02:20.180 hooked up to wires and Neuralink Elon is in the back of your head and you're taking pills all day

01:02:26.160 long. Because a lot, honestly, let's be honest, Western medicine in its root, I think we were

01:02:31.160 on to a good start. You know, like on the side of an ambulance, you'll see, you know, this staff

01:02:36.180 and a snake, you know, going around. That's a Christian symbol. That's not demonic and the 0.99

01:02:39.560 serpent. That's Moses. I knew I could read Ben's book. Let me just, let me finish my thought.

01:02:45.800 But that's indicative of the staff, the bronze serpent that Moses lifts up, and indicative of healing.

01:02:52.700 My point is this. 0.82

01:02:53.580 In the West, Christians have paved the way for medicine. 0.95

01:02:56.640 But with our apostasy and turning our back on Christ, so too there has been an apostasy. 0.78

01:03:02.660 And if you turn your back on Christ, then you're going to pervert everything else.

01:03:07.600 And so medicine these days, you can't just take it for granted.

01:03:14.500 A lot of medicine today is corrupt, and a lot of it is just, it's really just trade-offs. 0.96

01:03:20.360 It's, okay, you'll live longer here, but we're going to, you know, kill you over here.

01:03:27.600 You know, like, medicine helps, and also medicine is hurting us at the very same time.

01:03:32.220 And so the idea that I like about primary water is it's not saying that people would live for, you know,

01:03:37.520 hundreds of years because of medicine, especially the medicine over the past recent decades

01:03:43.720 And the way that we think of it today, you know, this pharmaceutical, you know, kind of like, you know, pharmakeia, almost witchcraft in some cases, straight up is.

01:03:53.660 But no, we're saying through natural means, through natural means, the Christian worldview winning the day and making discoveries of what God has already baked into the fabric of his creation, something as simple as water, but new water.

01:04:06.460 and that what if the secret is not taking 47 pills a day but the secret is just a nice glass

01:04:13.540 of water and you could live to be a thousand years old because the water you're drinking is

01:04:17.800 not a thousand years old or six thousand years old because up until now that's been the main

01:04:22.300 conception is the hydrological cycle that all we have is recycled old water and this is new would

01:04:28.000 be new water that water is being made and the other thing that that would eradicate in terms

01:04:31.840 of bad worldviews is that you would have new water and more water because that's another thing

01:04:37.040 that science you know science tm you know alleged science has told us is that we have not only old

01:04:43.900 recycled water we can never get new water but we also have a finite amount of it and so you know

01:04:49.440 we're very concerned about overpopulation and this would just if it's true would just completely

01:04:53.960 debunk the overpopulation myth the primary water thing for me all everything you said about fountain

01:05:00.580 of youth, I would say, wow, that's a really interesting idea. And footnote or like, what's

01:05:07.700 the word? My sources? I made it up. We're excited. We're excited. I made it up. But for me, the most

01:05:15.800 important reason I think this is really fascinating question is that. It's this idea of, did God make

01:05:21.780 a world where it's just, there's this thing that you absolutely is required for life. And then he

01:05:27.660 also just gave this very scarce amount of it or or did god make a world where through magmatic

01:05:33.140 processes deep in the earth water i think this is also similar to the abiotic theory of oil

01:05:37.860 which is another interesting theory maybe some of you have looked into that oil is not really

01:05:42.000 dinosaurs and trees that have fallen down a million billion years ago but but as an abiotic

01:05:47.400 product that's made through geologic processes in the earth these are kind of similar to me

01:05:52.020 that God is a good father.

01:05:54.420 He gives us enough.

01:05:56.080 He doesn't say,

01:05:56.800 go be fruitful and take dominion and multiply.

01:05:58.520 And then he says,

01:05:59.100 oops, you did it too much.

01:06:01.280 Now there's no more water 0.99

01:06:02.800 and people have to abort their kids in China. 1.00

01:06:05.080 It needs a one-child policy. 0.99

01:06:06.500 The consequence for your obedience

01:06:07.360 to my command to be fruitful and multiply

01:06:08.940 is now you don't get to drink.

01:06:10.580 And that to me is like,

01:06:11.580 yeah, I think it's interesting because of that.

01:06:13.200 The promise is that the wealth of the wicked

01:06:14.840 is laid up for the righteous.

01:06:15.800 That means that it can't just be the wicked

01:06:18.720 that get to engage in pharmacaic necromancy

01:06:21.820 to live a really long time while the righteous die

01:06:23.880 really young. That actually means that the righteous

01:06:25.680 have to live. And they probably

01:06:27.780 have to live longer than the wicked, at least

01:06:29.760 at some point. Just read Psalm 37.

01:06:31.540 But I also love the irony of modern medicine.

01:06:33.560 They're like, hey, we are so good at what

01:06:35.820 we do. In Canada, we will help kill 0.99

01:06:37.880 you sooner, actually. 1.00

01:06:39.780 We'll shorten your life. That'll be

01:06:41.700 great. You need a

01:06:43.480 tooth pulled, we can either pull it, 1.00

01:06:45.620 or we can kill you. 1.00

01:06:47.980 Both are viable options. 1.00

01:06:49.820 You know what? Sorry, just real quick.

01:06:51.820 To the point about the pole with the snake.

01:06:54.640 Oh, okay.

01:06:55.140 All right.

01:06:56.540 Actually, Joel.

01:06:58.460 Yeah, I am literally Neil deGrasse Tyson.

01:07:02.080 I look just like him.

01:07:04.400 No, so there was a time where that was a Christian symbol,

01:07:07.640 and it was in reference to Moses in the wilderness.

01:07:09.440 He hoists up the bronze serpent, and everyone that looks to it is healed.

01:07:14.000 It originally came from the Greek god Asclepius, who is the god of Pharmakeia.

01:07:19.240 and pharmakeia is drug induced and when i say drug i mean like hallucinogenic

01:07:24.820 induced necromancy that heals someone and gives them longer life and asclepius was said to go

01:07:31.360 around bringing dead kings back from the dead so that they might continue to reign and he would

01:07:36.720 always walk around with a with a staff with a live serpent coiled around it and the serpent

01:07:42.600 was telling him the secrets of life there's nothing there um so then the christians decided

01:07:47.920 to start hospitals because we're the good ones. And so, and they started using the Moses symbol

01:07:53.040 instead, but then the, the, the pagans won the hospitals, so to speak. And so instead of one

01:08:01.640 snake, you'll oftentimes now see two. And that's actually a hermetic satanic symbol for the power

01:08:09.420 of necromancy. Just fun fact. Wow. That wasn't a very fun fact. That was a good, actually. Yeah.

01:08:15.200 that was a good actually just fun fact

01:08:17.140 it wasn't fun but it was good

01:08:18.920 alright so one last time and then we'll go ahead and break

01:08:21.760 our next session is going to be at 3 o'clock

01:08:23.460 we've got the one and only

01:08:24.900 Mr. Moderate, Pastor Doug Wilson

01:08:27.220 he'll be here at 3pm

01:08:29.200 and so on Kyperianism

01:08:31.100 all of Christ for all of life

01:08:32.640 he knows a thing or two about that

01:08:33.980 so that'll be at 3pm so we'll take a little bit longer break

01:08:36.960 than normal but one more reminder

01:08:38.560 April 5th, first Friday of April

01:08:40.940 that's when we'll be coming out

01:08:41.900 it's going to be a 10 part series

01:08:43.180 each episode is about an hour

01:08:44.720 so every Friday starting in April

01:08:46.860 it'll be April, May and June

01:08:48.260 ten Fridays in a row

01:08:49.700 it's me and Ben and Brian

01:08:51.660 Atlantis I think is our first episode

01:08:53.780 Primary Water's in there, Bigfoot

01:08:55.260 the whole nine yards

01:08:56.480 so that'll be really great

01:08:57.540 so if you want to get early access

01:08:59.460 add free access for that

01:09:00.500 sign up on Patreon

01:09:01.420 and then the last thing in relation to Patreon

01:09:04.340 is even though you guys are here in person

01:09:07.500 if you do want to have access to all the material

01:09:11.220 every single session and every panel

01:09:12.960 for this weekend, this conference

01:09:14.480 ahead of time then all of our

01:09:16.780 Patreon members are

01:09:18.540 being able to get that right now and it's not

01:09:20.800 just you have to watch it as it's live you'll have

01:09:22.740 access to it after it's over if not

01:09:24.880 everything will be up on our podcast

01:09:26.820 platforms our website and YouTube

01:09:28.500 but it's going to probably take

01:09:30.740 we're probably going to drip slow drip

01:09:32.600 so that Nathan can edit and things like that but

01:09:34.720 it'll probably be one piece of content from the conference

01:09:36.940 every single week so by the

01:09:38.800 time every all seven sessions

01:09:40.600 and both panels get out will be you know

01:09:42.800 all the way to like two and a half months from now.

01:09:45.220 So if you want the whole conference right now

01:09:47.460 to share with family or friends

01:09:48.760 and send them the link, we're fine if you do that.

01:09:50.860 Then join us on Patreon.

01:09:52.660 If not, no hard feelings, still love you.

01:09:55.020 Let's take a break, grab some coffee,

01:09:56.460 go to the bathroom,

01:09:57.180 and then 3 p.m. for Pastor Doug Wilson.

01:09:59.260 Thanks, guys.

The NXR Podcast - April 23, 2024

THE CONFERENCE - Live Panel #2 with Haunted Cosmos

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