The NXR Podcast - THE CONFERENCE - Panel 2 - Isker, Garrett, Robles, Berkholder, Conn, Engel, Achord, and Webbon

00:00:00.000 Leave us a five-star review on your favorite podcast platform.

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00:00:07.700 When you give us a positive review, what that does is it triggers the algorithm so that

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00:00:16.280 You and I both know that this ministry is willing to talk about things that most ministries

00:00:20.820 aren't.

00:00:21.860 We need this content for the glory of God to reach more people's ears.

00:00:26.800 Okay, we don't want to spend 90 minutes on introductions because that would be a waste of your time.

00:00:30.680 So first name only, we have Andrew, we have Ben, myself, Adam, AD, CJ, Eric, and Dan. 0.97

00:00:41.080 Okay, so we've got Ogden, Contramundum, Right Response, The Reasonable Latino. 0.80

00:00:47.520 We're all here. AD will keep us in line. 0.99

00:00:50.620 So this is who we have for the panel.

00:00:52.580 And as I said, we do have one special surprise guest, and this is kind of my flair, my introduction, and I'll keep it brief, but when the left, whether they be, you know, just your typical leftist, or whether they be, you know, Christians that may, you know, truly be Christians and regenerate, we're going to worship with them in eternity in heaven,

00:01:17.240 but they're still, for whatever reason, functioning as a leftist would,

00:01:23.220 appealing to leftist framework in order to cancel their own and those kinds of things.

00:01:30.820 When the left, be it the Christian left or the non-Christian left, 0.74

00:01:34.820 comes for you, comes for us, comes for whatever we want to call it, 0.73

00:01:40.940 Christian nationalist, the new Christian right, whatever it is, 0.92

00:01:43.660 The response, the right response, if you will, when they come for their pound of flesh, I really believe that the Christian response is to say, pound sand, you cannot have a single man, not one. 0.98

00:02:13.660 We can't throw members of our team to the alligators in hopes that, well, then maybe they'll eat us last. 0.71

00:02:25.560 That's cowardice, and it's immoral, and even practically, it doesn't work.

00:02:30.660 You still get eaten. You just get eaten last.

00:02:32.920 We do have standards. We have a higher ultimate standard above us, the Word of God.

00:02:39.200 And so everything I just said, the final caveat or disclaimer is this, that should be the Christian response when it comes to any man that the left is demanding we hand over.

00:02:52.180 Our response should be you can't have him if, here's the contingency, if he's a repentant man, either innocent, they're charging him for some made up sin, or actually a sinner, but a repentant sinner.

00:03:09.200 And so I humbly ask you if you would give a standing ovation

00:03:15.100 to our surprise panelist, Mr. Thomas Acord.

00:03:30.120 All right.

00:03:31.460 Please be seated.

00:03:32.840 So now in true Christian fashion, we do this in our liturgy every Lord's Day.

00:03:37.920 Right?

00:03:38.080 There's an acknowledgment of sin, assurance of pardon, and then you move on.

00:03:44.140 So that's it.

00:03:45.240 Not going to talk about it.

00:03:46.300 That's it.

00:03:47.320 We believe the gospel or we don't, and we happen to believe.

00:03:50.240 So panel, we're going to start with our first question, which is, is Christian nationalism

00:03:57.440 dead?

00:03:59.000 And let's start.

00:03:59.880 We'll go down the line with Mr. Acord.

00:04:03.680 No.

00:04:04.160 bless it out a little bit

00:04:08.320 no it's not dead

00:04:11.860 Christ wants all the nations to worship him and bow down to him

00:04:15.220 the scriptures say this everywhere he made the nations he formed them

00:04:19.000 all the nations he calls to himself the great commission is to go out

00:04:23.460 and bring the gospel to the nations he says

00:04:26.700 go disciple the nations the nations is the direct object of the verb

00:04:30.780 of the command. And he says, all the nations, ponta ta ethne. It's not some. He wants them all.

00:04:38.700 And there's a beautiful book about this by John Piper. It's called Let the Nations Be Glad.

00:04:44.640 And in that book, he explicitly argues that the nations, in his reading, they should be

00:04:50.920 understood as ethnic peoples. And he makes the argument that missionaries for a long time in

00:04:57.160 Christian history have sought this, or thought this, and they've gone on mission trips, mission

00:05:03.440 journeys. They've sacrificed themselves toward this end to bring the gospel to all ethnic groups,

00:05:08.860 to pontetat ethne. And we have a rich heritage of people thinking this way. And so, in my opinion,

00:05:16.620 Christian nationalism is the idea that the nations ought to be Christian, and God wants it so,

00:05:25.620 and Christians have labored towards this end.

00:05:27.880 And so in my opinion, it's not dead

00:05:29.240 because the gospel is not dead.

00:05:31.960 Amen.

00:05:32.640 Amen.

00:05:39.220 Oh, you want me to talk too?

00:05:42.840 Yeah, I mean, I don't think so either,

00:05:46.640 obviously, for all the reasons Thomas does.

00:05:49.880 But I mean, the question to,

00:05:52.320 I mean, when the people are saying that,

00:05:53.420 they're like, oh, it's dead.

00:05:54.340 Christian nationalism is dead.

00:05:55.620 what exactly are they talking about, right?

00:05:58.280 Do they think it's like some kind of movement,

00:05:59.940 some kind of political, you know, block

00:06:02.320 or something like that?

00:06:04.380 And, you know, people have always asked me,

00:06:06.340 well, what is Christian nationalism?

00:06:07.760 What is that?

00:06:08.960 And, I mean, I look at it, what's like,

00:06:11.580 okay, the Dobbs decision happened in 2022

00:06:13.900 and the left decided to start attacking any Christians,

00:06:19.880 especially evangelicals,

00:06:21.880 who, you know, were this last remaining, you know, bulwark, if you will, against moral insanity,

00:06:30.420 right? And they start attacking, you know, evangelical Christians for supporting Trump,

00:06:36.480 for being pro-life, all of these things, and trying to lump them in with, like, white nationalists,

00:06:42.780 right? That was the play, right? They would call up, like, every headline about me on the news is,

00:06:46.920 Like, he's a white Christian nationalist, which I have never once described myself that way.

00:06:54.200 So they wanted to lump those things together.

00:06:56.680 And so what people did, like what I did, what Stephen did, what many others did, is defend them and say, no, Christians can care about politics.

00:07:05.760 They can care about their nation.

00:07:07.420 And then it goes a level deeper because the question of what is a nation?

00:07:11.580 Well, America is an idea.

00:07:14.660 It's not a nation.

00:07:15.540 it's not a people and you see you saw at the Republican National Convention the

00:07:23.460 now Vice President of the United States give a speech and say America is not an

00:07:29.280 idea right not merely an idea America's a people it's a place it's it's people's

00:07:35.340 home um it's it's not an economic zone and the that idea is winning right that

00:07:43.040 That idea that we are a nation, and on top of that, among Christians, that it was a nation founded by Christians, built by Christians, and should be for Christians, should be ruled by God's law, should be ruled by God's word.

00:08:01.900 That's not an insane thing, because that's how it was founded.

00:08:04.960 And so, no, I don't think it's dead at all.

00:08:07.560 I think it's just beginning.

00:08:10.660 Well said.

00:08:11.880 Ben.

00:08:13.040 Hey, Ben, by the way, if the Nephilim don't make it into this comment, fail.

00:08:24.820 I think you're going to be disappointed.

00:08:26.840 Yeah.

00:08:27.920 No, no.

00:08:28.820 Christian nationalism, at least from where I'm sitting, is definitely not dead.

00:08:33.100 Nations are good.

00:08:34.300 Nationalism is good. 0.59

00:08:36.200 It's a strong God that's making a return at the end of the long 20th century.

00:08:40.540 It is still from Reno.

00:08:43.040 And I think it's worth forcing by sheer force of will.

00:08:47.920 I think that nationalism is worth it.

00:08:50.560 And if nationalism is worth it and we're Christians, then Christian nationalism is even more so.

00:08:56.600 And so we're strengthened by not only the revelation of nature that tells us that this thing is very good,

00:09:05.080 but we're also, I mean, Deus Vult, God wills this. 0.95

00:09:07.640 And so by sheer force of will, both divine and human, Christian nationalism is not only dead, but it will continue to rise, and I believe it will come to fruition again. 0.99

00:09:19.640 Amen. 1.00

00:09:21.240 I'll just say this.

00:09:23.020 You've got to consider the people that are saying Christian nationalism is dead.

00:09:27.880 They want it to be dead.

00:09:30.360 It's a wizard spell.

00:09:33.200 This is how they operate.

00:09:34.480 They say the same thing over and over again, and eventually people believe it. 0.99

00:09:38.980 And so, you know, this question is almost a dumb question. 0.96

00:09:43.700 You know, it's... 0.94

00:09:44.580 I was told to ask this question.

00:09:47.960 Yeah, Joel. 0.99

00:09:48.440 That's why I call it dumb. 0.98

00:09:51.360 But obviously you're exempted because you don't believe it's dead. 0.98

00:09:54.420 But the people that are asking this or saying this, they try to beat you down.

00:09:58.760 They try to demoralize you.

00:10:00.500 And if they can kill the momentum, that's like their strategy to actually kill it.

00:10:07.540 And so you just got to cut all that noise out.

00:10:09.360 You know, every single person who says it's dead or wants to ask, they're just asking questions.

00:10:14.160 You know, they do that too.

00:10:17.140 They all are against Christian nationalism. 0.87

00:10:19.720 You got to consider the source when you're getting that kind of black pill. 0.94

00:10:22.780 Yeah, the reason I don't think it's dead is because I think the phrase itself represents

00:10:29.560 like the embodied antithesis of everything the left wants us to believe, right?

00:10:35.160 So they've declared war on Christendom, our Christian heritage, and all of these things,

00:10:40.180 and they've created a body of people in the West that want to do whatever they can to

00:10:45.160 be the opposite of what the regime wants them to be. 0.52

00:10:48.160 And so Christianity represents a punch to everything that they tell us that we ought to be. 0.70

00:10:54.120 And nationalism, too. 0.75

00:10:55.380 Of course, it reminds us of who we are, that we are a people, that we have a place, and that we came from somewhere.

00:11:01.920 And because it's an embodied antithesis of what the left wants us to believe,

00:11:05.280 and because there's a revolution from the middle of America,

00:11:08.720 I think that we have time on our side, and I think we have momentum on our side,

00:11:13.180 and there's nothing the regime can do about it.

00:11:15.920 Yeah, amen.

00:11:17.660 Yeah. I mean, you guys honestly nailed it. I think that's true. I think the Longhouse

00:11:25.360 particularly fears Christian nationalism. It really is driven by men, which I think is terrifying

00:11:31.920 to them. But the other thing is, what I look at is, is there polarity, right? Do people oppose

00:11:39.040 it vehemently? And if it was dead, you would just forget about it, right? You wouldn't have all

00:11:44.600 these people attacking it. So when you have enemies, a lot of times you're, you're over the

00:11:50.100 target. Yeah, absolutely. I agree with that. You wouldn't have all of the propaganda essentially

00:11:57.180 to trying to convince people that first, this is a, some sort of white supremacist, Nazi movement,

00:12:04.480 you had to look out in Tennessee, all the hit pieces that are coming, like you guys are in

00:12:08.780 danger, you know, look out, scare tactics. You wouldn't have that if it wasn't actually working.

00:12:14.160 if there wasn't momentum you know there's the enemy is going to try to frame uh this whole

00:12:19.640 conversation uh through fear and so even even some of the articles that have been written about the

00:12:25.980 tennessee guys the related articles are all like nazi resurgence and new nazi movements and

00:12:32.600 everything like that trying to gas poison gas cloud you know some of the momentum that the

00:12:37.280 guys in tennessee have and uh all of us have had attacks i'm sure you've all experienced some of

00:12:42.780 this even locally as you go about the work of building your homes your businesses your churches

00:12:48.780 you're getting a lot of pushback because it's actually working and the enemy is scared and so

00:12:54.900 no it's not dead actually we're getting we're just getting started and i think god does will it

00:12:59.960 good job dan day's fault day's fault amen god wills it okay um keeping in this thing

00:13:09.200 but getting a little bit deeper let's talk about certainly this is you know a synonym in many ways

00:13:16.880 of Christian nationalism but let's talk about the new Christian right and CJ you mentioned

00:13:21.600 in your response momentum and we talked about that offline a little bit and you've got some

00:13:26.080 great thoughts so maybe you can can start this portion of our conversation what and why is there

00:13:33.920 this momentum and and buzz and force behind the new christian right why is that unique and we

00:13:40.580 should be excited cj started white pilling recently yesterday it's crazy yeah you've never

00:13:46.880 done this before how do you feel it feels all right okay but then he saw a tesla driving down

00:13:52.520 the road and it was so over it was over yeah yeah so um i i came you know to this whole place not

00:14:02.760 from the same place as a lot of these other guys. I actually came from it from much more

00:14:06.360 of a student of the right wing, the secular right wing, if you will, in America. I look

00:14:11.840 at things over the course of the 20th century. What happened to that old right that tried 0.82

00:14:16.480 to repel the New Deal revolution, the managerial revolution? What happened to the voices of

00:14:22.420 old middle America before the rise of the postwar consensus and the civil rights revolution

00:14:28.600 and all of these things that transformed the way that America thinks about itself. 0.54

00:14:33.980 So I looked at these things, and I saw these people on the margins.

00:14:37.260 I saw these prophets, if you will, who recognized where all of this was going, and they were

00:14:42.440 right.

00:14:43.440 They've been totally vindicated in every way.

00:14:47.280 But when I see these people, in the 90s, they were pushing hard.

00:14:50.320 They were pushed to the wayside.

00:14:51.320 They didn't have the internet, really, to be an outlet for them.

00:14:56.200 They crashed and burned.

00:14:57.840 And the dissident right, the alt-right, whatever phrase you want to use, it's in shambles.

00:15:03.880 And how is it possible that a reformed Christian community can draw a thousand people?

00:15:10.640 What is going on?

00:15:11.720 That's the question that I'm fascinated by.

00:15:13.180 I've studied the rise and fall of the conservative movement.

00:15:16.320 I've studied the recovery of the right, of a right-wing consciousness, of a counter-revolutionary

00:15:22.560 gestalt.

00:15:23.720 I've looked at all these things, and it was completely dead five years ago. 0.99

00:15:28.760 And yet we have a thousand people here today, Christians, that are thinking in terms of political strategy. 1.00

00:15:35.120 That's something that just blows my mind. 1.00

00:15:37.760 And so I've been grappling with this, you know, probably for a couple years.

00:15:42.100 And the thing that came to me was, you can't have a recovery if it's not based in anything transcendent.

00:15:49.040 And I think that was the failure of the secular right, right?

00:15:51.800 after you're you're gone and dead and there's no more you there's no more purpose and I think 0.94

00:15:58.080 that's what makes the Christian ethos different it's sustainable because it's not for us in the 0.98

00:16:03.560 here and now we have a duty to do things regardless of white pill or black pill that's 0.88

00:16:08.480 actually irrelevant to our obligations to our people and that's what Christianity brings to

00:16:12.720 the table because we look forward we don't just look back we look forward and I think that is

00:16:18.260 the exact answer to this question why did the secular right fail and why is the christian right

00:16:23.400 on the ascendant and it's because of that reason we have time on our side amen

00:16:28.240 that was like uh post mill cj what that was like post mill cj

00:16:35.820 all right it's good you want to piggyback on that yeah what was the question again well we're just

00:16:42.280 talking about the new christian right it has momentum there's so many things you know politically

00:16:46.540 on the right and yesteryear

00:16:48.400 that were unsuccessful.

00:16:50.680 Why?

00:16:51.740 Yeah, I mean, I was just floored by, like,

00:16:54.120 CJ being optimistic.

00:16:57.140 He's not ready for that.

00:17:00.780 Yeah, I mean, I think

00:17:01.880 what CJ is saying is

00:17:04.240 absolutely true. I mean, I've

00:17:05.940 paid attention, you know, online

00:17:08.480 to

00:17:10.280 so many different things for years.

00:17:12.580 And, I mean, even like the Trump phenomenon and the dissident right that happened around the same time, there was so much optimism with it, especially in 2016, 2017.

00:17:30.800 A lot of that optimism was dashed in 2020. 0.96

00:17:34.780 And the people who picked it up were Christians. 0.86

00:17:40.200 Like I said earlier, the reason the media attacked the lone bulwark in 2022 is not just the Dobbs decision, but also the fact that it was only Christians really left, and regularly, not Big Eva, not their leaders, not any prominent pastors at all.

00:18:03.400 it was just regular people in the pews that cared about their country were active in politics uh and

00:18:10.980 like tens of millions of them right that was all that was left and and from that like those are

00:18:17.580 the people that have have bought my books bought steven's book that that come to conferences that

00:18:23.220 you know subscribe to you know your youtube channels like they are out there and they have

00:18:29.340 they've not had any

00:18:31.240 discipleship in this area.

00:18:34.140 They don't have any pastors or leaders

00:18:36.020 telling them, hey, actually

00:18:38.280 if they've had anything

00:18:39.940 taught to them about politics, it's that

00:18:42.000 you are too earthly minded.

00:18:44.340 You don't care. You need to be

00:18:45.960 heavenly minded. You need to think about spiritual

00:18:47.860 things.

00:18:49.760 And it's like, well,

00:18:51.800 my country is being destroyed.

00:18:54.140 Joe Biden is importing 1.00

00:18:55.580 tens of millions of illegal immigrants here. 0.98

00:18:59.340 the price of everything is going through the roof everyone like the economy is garbage even 1.00

00:19:03.420 though the stock market is going up like did you notice that that everyone's like oh the stock

00:19:07.500 market the economy was so great under joe biden uh it's like no the stock market was the economy

00:19:12.700 was trash uh and and and so people felt this like all these problems and they cared about the the

00:19:20.460 politics of it they just went through covid they just went through the most secure election of all

00:19:25.580 time. And they're angry about everything that had happened. And finally, a handful of voices

00:19:34.940 out there among Christians that know things, that know what they're talking about, that know

00:19:41.280 how Christians used to think about politics 100 or 200 years ago, are there to tell them about it,

00:19:48.040 there to reassure them that, no, you're not a bad Christian if you care about what is happening to

00:19:54.620 your country. And so I think it is going to continue to grow. I think that every attack

00:20:03.260 that there is on each of us, it actually just amplifies what we're doing. More and more

00:20:12.680 people, they don't trust the media, so when the media attacks, all the people that don't,

00:20:17.660 it's like, well, everything they're telling me is the opposite of the truth, so these

00:20:20.380 guys must be awesome. And then they subscribe to your YouTube channel, they follow you on Twitter,

00:20:25.340 they buy your books, and they're like, oh, actually, it turns out everything they're saying

00:20:29.840 totally makes sense. And that is going to continue and continue to build and grow.

00:20:36.940 And it isn't just like a handful of leaders that are doing cool stuff. It's that regular people

00:20:44.080 are now able to think about the future

00:20:46.960 and, like, orienting, like CJ has said,

00:20:49.520 to future generations, right?

00:20:51.780 Building things for their children.

00:20:53.200 Like, I mean, I've talked to so many people

00:20:54.880 who are, like, you know, five years ago,

00:20:57.360 I was just kind of, like, a normie evangelical,

00:20:59.760 and, you know, I read your stuff,

00:21:01.980 I watched Joel, I watched, you know,

00:21:04.720 I watched Ogden guys,

00:21:06.360 and, you know, I started a business,

00:21:08.980 I, you know, I got married,

00:21:11.460 I've got kids now,

00:21:12.720 like, they're building things.

00:21:14.080 And so that's the thing that gives me hope isn't like, oh man, I got to go on Tucker Carlson and I got to do cool things.

00:21:20.360 It's like meeting all the people here that tell me the things that they are building and seeing all of it multiply.

00:21:27.960 Seeing tangible, real things for the kingdom of God growing is the biggest white pill of all.

00:21:35.640 Amen. Thomas, you want to address the topic?

00:21:39.700 Sure. The first thing, I really resonate with the idea that you're over the target if you're

00:21:46.700 being attacked. And it's also true if you're not being attacked. You're not so much over

00:21:51.460 the target, no matter how much you like to posture that you are. And there are a lot

00:21:56.280 of people who say that, I call them avant-garde evangelicals, that they pose as brave and

00:22:01.600 courageous, but they're never attacked by the regime. And that should tell you something.

00:22:05.360 and but to the to the other point the we're living through a time where it's we all feel

00:22:12.680 that there's a change to what's going on in the world to our nation to the west and we often

00:22:18.380 liken ourselves to Rome and when Rome collapsed the church survived the church thrived and of

00:22:24.080 course they had different circumstances but the fact is that it did happen and you see a new life

00:22:29.480 being born as old as something old is dying and Augustine wrote his city of God to sort of explain

00:22:34.760 this as it was happening.

00:22:35.760 He was living through it himself.

00:22:37.260 And I think that we're not exactly Rome.

00:22:40.140 History doesn't repeat, but as someone said,

00:22:42.340 it does rhyme sometimes.

00:22:44.000 And we're living through a time of change, if not collapse,

00:22:47.040 a great change, and you're seeing a new energy arising

00:22:49.940 out of that collapse.

00:22:51.680 And it just so happens to be largely inside the church.

00:22:54.820 And I think there are a lot of parallels there,

00:22:56.680 and we should definitely study that.

00:23:00.420 Ben?

00:23:01.720 Yeah. I like to, when I think about the new Christian right, 0.99

00:23:06.220 I like to look at just the words that make up that whole label,

00:23:08.860 new Christian and right.

00:23:11.100 From my perspective, the kind of modern left really found its genesis

00:23:16.620 in the French Revolution and then its final form really after World War II. 0.70

00:23:22.660 And the right, because that's true, the right was supposed to be the inheritor

00:23:28.620 of the great Western myth, the great Western ethos,

00:23:33.220 these things that made the West great and made the West what it was

00:23:36.940 as an idea and as a place.

00:23:40.180 And so the new right is kind of trying to pick up the pieces

00:23:45.880 of where the secular right, like what C.J. was saying, really failed

00:23:49.940 and had no transcendence.

00:23:52.260 And so the new right is looking at the transcendence

00:23:54.620 of the inheritance we were supposed to build on with the Western myth

00:23:58.280 and the Western ethos, and it's, and because, you know, y'all are right too, where it's

00:24:02.940 really starting in the church, and especially the Reformed church, where it's now Christian.

00:24:07.820 So it takes this transcendent thing of myth and this, these orthotic principles that pass

00:24:13.920 down almost soul to soul, from Westerner to Westerner, and then it makes it Christian,

00:24:19.840 it redeems it, and kind of gilds it. So I like to see the new Christian rite seriously

00:24:25.140 as this cathedral that's being built that is all of the greatest parts

00:24:32.320 of the Western tradition glorified, made better.

00:24:36.120 Not to immunitize the eschaton, but just to say, like, we must improve. 0.89

00:24:40.660 If time's on our side, then who are we to just settle for merely what was,

00:24:45.920 the glory what was?

00:24:47.340 No, we have to make it better.

00:24:49.000 And that's why I think the energy is so great at places like this

00:24:51.940 and with this crowd, it's a lot of young men in particular,

00:24:55.960 and they have the zeal to do that.

00:24:57.820 You know, the glory of young men is their strength.

00:25:00.260 And so I'm very excited about the new Christian right

00:25:03.680 because I'm excited to reclaim the Western ethos 0.91

00:25:06.520 and make it great again, and even, you know,

00:25:09.900 somehow that I can't really comprehend, make it better.

00:25:12.700 Make it better than Charlemagne.

00:25:14.440 Make it better than Gregory.

00:25:16.180 You know, these great men, we can be better.

00:25:19.420 We can be greater.

00:25:20.860 But we have to put the work in.

00:25:23.120 Amen.

00:25:25.280 Adam?

00:25:27.840 Yeah.

00:25:30.080 I'm excited as well, obviously.

00:25:32.360 I mean, I'm here.

00:25:34.060 But what's really striking to me is just the amount of confidence that people have in the Lord

00:25:39.160 and the possibilities of what is possible when the Lord's on your side for the future.

00:25:45.100 It's not just...

00:25:46.700 Listen, like, you know, most of us here are reformed.

00:25:49.240 and, you know, I don't know if your experience is like mine, but to me, when I was growing up

00:25:54.980 in reformed, you know, how you grew up as a Christian is you studied more theology, you,

00:25:59.640 you read more books, you did more podcasts, whatever it was. Um, and that was, that was how

00:26:05.660 you advanced, you know? Um, and we're, a lot of people are still doing that, but we're also

00:26:10.740 thinking about, uh, so many other things. You've got curious consulting back there, um, you know,

00:26:16.200 talking about real estate and building real estate portfolios, you know, the Reese Fund,

00:26:22.440 they're thinking through how to fund the right kinds of businesses in a Christian way.

00:26:29.040 These are people that they wouldn't be doing that if you ask them why they're doing it. Of course,

00:26:33.980 they want to make a profit. But all of these people are thinking about the future generations

00:26:38.700 and what we're going to need if we are going to win the nation. If the Lord, you know, Thomas

00:26:45.120 says the Lord's going to win the nations. That is going to happen, but it's not going to happen

00:26:51.480 just magically. There's effort that needs to be put in by God's people, and we're finally thinking

00:26:58.320 through what that looks like. David Reese is investing in businesses because he knows that

00:27:04.060 we're going to have to have a certain infrastructure, certain institutions in order to not make that

00:27:12.300 happen, but to prepare for that to happen. And so people are thinking through that. I'm a recruiter,

00:27:18.200 so I talk to people always about what they do. The amount of talent that Christians have

00:27:24.320 in the bank is overwhelming. In every area, I talk to Christian clothing designers,

00:27:32.560 and they're not making gay clothing. They're making quality clothing, functional clothing,

00:27:38.680 and you know, we need that kind of stuff too. I would never have thought about that. What does

00:27:42.560 that mean? A Christian clothing designer? But people are thinking through every area of life

00:27:48.240 and it's amazing. And I talk to people all the time and the truth is that we have the talent

00:27:54.840 and as long as we have the confidence and the will to actually do things,

00:27:59.400 we can make massive moves and a lot quicker than you think we can.

00:28:02.980 Yeah. I think we'll all be surprised by, I love what you said at the end, that the speed,

00:28:10.400 the speed could surprise us when all of a sudden for the first time we experience like some tailwinds

00:28:17.740 when it's been 40 years of headwinds. So don't underestimate what the Lord can do. CJ, you want

00:28:24.100 to get to, you have the rare experience of getting to answer the same question twice. You want a

00:28:29.060 second term. Got anything else you want to add? No, not really. I mean, just reflecting back on

00:28:34.080 what you guys have said, like another thing that strikes me about this, you know, new Christian

00:28:39.780 right, I think that's unique among all, you know, Christians, evangelicals have been involved in

00:28:45.140 politics in the 20th century a lot, but I think with that one thing that we have that they didn't

00:28:50.560 have is we recognize how fragile our country actually is. A lot of people can get hopeless

00:28:58.860 and one of the things that I reflect on is just a student of political movements in the

00:29:02.640 20th century. It's important to remember that the left that currently runs everything was

00:29:08.400 basically on the complete margins of societies in the 1960s. They had to think about how

00:29:13.660 exactly do we exploit Christendom? That's a powerful heritage. How do you exploit something

00:29:18.560 like that well our current regime has only been around for 75 years and if if the left did it how

00:29:24.760 much more obvious is it that we have the resources and we we have things within our history that we

00:29:31.180 can that we can i always tell my tell my friends that there's nothing that i've any of us have ever

00:29:35.780 said or done or even thought about that um that is even close to as bold and courageous as the

00:29:43.280 very people that laid the groundwork for us a thousand years ago. There's nothing, any media

00:29:48.980 hit piece that comes against us, you know, anything that they say about us, nothing is even comes close

00:29:54.680 to the, you know, if people are concerned about us, think about how concerned they would be about

00:30:00.800 Charlemagne right now, right? There's nothing that we will do that will compare to what he did in the

00:30:06.100 building of the infrastructure that we inherited. And so the situation seems hopeless in the 80s

00:30:12.920 and the 90s, but this regime has only been around for 75 years.

00:30:17.460 We have 2,000 years of Christendom to look back on.

00:30:21.160 It's just a blip.

00:30:22.300 CJ is just the ray of sunshine up here.

00:30:26.420 Look at you go, tossing out white pills everywhere.

00:30:29.720 Yeah, to put a fine point on that, it's almost like we have three things.

00:30:32.820 One, the Lord can win by many or by few.

00:30:34.920 So first and foremost, we have the Lord on our side.

00:30:36.620 Second, we have tradition on our side.

00:30:38.960 They have 75 years, we have 2,000.

00:30:40.700 That's well said.

00:30:41.260 and three we also have nature on our side like it's we we saw with you know USA

00:30:47.460 it's like it's important to remember that like the left did it so quickly sometimes we can give

00:30:53.920 them more credit than they deserve you know you can you can actually uh shake in your boots you

00:30:58.380 know like when Goliath is out there prancing you know and and you're a lot more afraid than you

00:31:03.120 really should be because it turns out it's not that people were so malleable and the left had

00:31:08.740 such you know wonderful you know intrinsic arguments that just made so much logical sense

00:31:14.020 that people were like of course it's a lump of cells of course a boy can be a girl of course like

00:31:19.120 no it took billions of dollars it took billions it was all artificial it was all manufactured it was

00:31:26.860 all manipulated they because they had to swim upstream they had to go against not just god

00:31:34.260 which is already you know quite the task but they had to go against god's world they had to go

00:31:39.880 against nature we actually have the benefit the advantage of going with tradition 2 000 years

00:31:45.820 versus 75 with the lord versus demons and with nature versus that which is unnatural what they

00:31:53.800 did in 75 years not because of us no no presumption but because of god if it be his will

00:32:01.240 we could do in 15 years. It really could happen. Eric? Yeah, I think one of the biggest

00:32:08.480 encouragements to me is that a lot of these guys on the panel represent people doing work

00:32:14.740 in political theory. That's something that Stephen Wolf has talked about. But more and more,

00:32:19.860 what I'm seeing is that you actually have pastors who are willing not to betray their own people

00:32:25.680 who are doing that work, but they're actually sending the guys out and saying, yeah, you need

00:32:30.880 to go do that work. It's been slow. I think there's been a sort of a changing of guard

00:32:36.560 on that front. But I would just encourage the pastors, like you don't have to be a political

00:32:42.060 expert, but you definitely have to be courageous on the behalf of your people. And because, you

00:32:48.860 know, for a Stephen Wolf or a Thomas, even what you guys are doing in Tennessee, a lot of pastors

00:32:56.020 will actually attack you for that right and so when you have the regime against you and this

00:33:01.380 would be an encouragement too if you're one of the guys and you're like i want to get involved

00:33:04.360 in politics you need a church that has your back right because it's going to get heated and when

00:33:10.040 the city or the state or the military is trying to kick you out and they're coming after you

00:33:15.340 you actually need people on your team and fortunately i think we're seeing a lot more of

00:33:19.120 that let me just say something here too um i talk to a lot of people because of you know what i do

00:33:24.140 and they ask me about advice for their church situation and stuff like that.

00:33:27.860 And obviously, I can't really give good advice because I don't know your church situation.

00:33:32.500 But let me just add to that, Eric. 0.88

00:33:36.300 You don't necessarily need a pastor that is going to be as based as you are, as red-pilled as you are.

00:33:43.780 That's very rare. 0.99

00:33:45.380 You don't necessarily need that.

00:33:46.800 What you need, though, is someone who's got your back.

00:33:50.640 My pastors are not on the same page with me.

00:33:52.680 And when they watch my videos, their face is like this sometimes.

00:33:57.840 But they've got my back.

00:33:59.780 They're not going to throw me to the wolves.

00:34:02.560 They have my best interests in mind.

00:34:04.740 And they do things and they say things to me that are mind-boggling, but they're in my corner.

00:34:11.700 That's all you need.

00:34:12.620 That counts for a lot.

00:34:14.420 That kind of loyalty, someone that actually cares about your soul, someone that cares about your family, that's enough.

00:34:22.220 So don't feel like you have to find Eric Kahn as your pastor because there's one of him.

00:34:28.820 You know, we got Joel.

00:34:30.180 I mean, he's the best we got.

00:34:31.400 You know what I mean?

00:34:32.300 You don't need to find Joel.

00:34:33.800 He keeps reminding us of that.

00:34:35.040 Let it go.

00:34:36.720 I've heard that he's the best we got.

00:34:38.080 Let it go.

00:34:40.100 You don't need to have Joel as your pastor.

00:34:41.960 It would be great if we had tons of guys that were on the same page.

00:34:46.560 It's not realistic, though.

00:34:47.740 if you've got a good pastor who has your back that is enough and you can you can work with

00:34:53.700 that and you can get to work the left can't actually cancel you your people are the only

00:34:59.360 ones who can truly cancel that's right every person who's been canceled by the left if you

00:35:05.080 if you're accurate about it if you're honest about it the left pressures your people and

00:35:12.120 your people said you can have him and if they it's only because of that that a guy actually

00:35:19.080 gets canceled it's not you can just deny them that exactly it's not because oh but it was a

00:35:23.880 million people on the no what true cancellation comes down to is not the million people on the

00:35:29.020 left and in the twitter streets it comes down to the three people in your church those three elders

00:35:35.400 they actually have the decision to hand you over they actually have that decision and if you have

00:35:41.520 elders who don't even necessarily agree with you but who will not make that decision then you're

00:35:49.020 bulletproof and bulletproof men and women can do a whole lot of things okay yeah we were talking

00:35:56.760 about the new christian right correct yeah i'm gonna i'm gonna delve into political theory for

00:36:01.920 a minute which is dangerous i'm a pastor that went to business school which is a gross combination

00:36:06.040 but he did stay in a holiday inn last night. That's right. So I have confidence. It was a

00:36:11.820 Fairfield inn. Was it? It was a Fairfield inn. Oh man, it's a really classy joint. Anyway, I think

00:36:16.920 looking back, why did the left win over the last 75 years or so? Well, they actually had a vision

00:36:24.020 for the future that transcended more than just one generation, right? So the slow march through

00:36:30.380 the institutions, you know, to the point where it's like, there's going to be a pride flag in

00:36:34.400 every business. We're going to make this place as gay as possible. And that was the vision for 0.82

00:36:39.700 generations. That's going to be the vision. We're going to make sure that everybody loves

00:36:44.280 liberalism and loves the gays. You can't just, you know, tolerate it. You actually have to love it. 0.98

00:36:50.780 That's what their vision was. And so for many years, conservatives were essentially just saying,

00:36:57.160 well, just slow down. Like there wasn't really a positive vision. They were just saying like,

00:37:02.400 just not so fast. And we get to the point where even the Republican Party is like, yeah, gay 0.97

00:37:07.900 marriage. Yeah, that's great. Yeah, that's one of the things that we do. So the new Christian right, 0.99

00:37:12.420 why is it actually potent? Why is it actually winning? Why is it going to win? It's because 0.95

00:37:17.140 it has a positive vision for the future that will actually transcend our own lives.

00:37:23.020 And ultimately, what are we saying? Like, what is the vision? Well, it's to make America a Christian

00:37:29.860 country. Every knee will bow. And so that means each one of the cities that we represent, each 1.00

00:37:35.580 one of the churches we represent, all of the businesses that are represented, all of the

00:37:39.700 families and households will all bow the knee to Christ and will make their cities Christian,

00:37:45.380 will make their businesses Christian, will make their states Christian, and will make the country 0.79

00:37:49.720 Christian. And that's a work of generations. You know, CJ said we have time on our side.

00:37:57.120 And that's true because this is a work of generations.

00:38:00.840 And so right now, what we're doing now is the foundation work.

00:38:04.400 We're doing the foundation work.

00:38:05.620 That's why we get pushback is because when you're challenging the regime and you're actually

00:38:10.440 getting momentum, they're not going to let you win.

00:38:14.020 You will have more enemies.

00:38:16.500 And, you know, when you're over the target, you're going to get enemies.

00:38:19.020 When you're getting momentum, you're going to have enemies.

00:38:21.420 You're going to have city councils that actually are your enemies.

00:38:24.760 You might even have elders in your own churches.

00:38:27.120 that are your enemies but don't lose heart because this is the work of generations

00:38:32.080 and so continue to walk in repentance you know continue to build in your communities

00:38:36.960 another thing that we talk about in counseling quite often eric ben and i uh is that the temptation

00:38:42.880 of raising your eyes too high david repents of this in the psalms you know forgive me for raising

00:38:47.200 my eyes too high you know you look at the project and you're like yeah we have some momentum but

00:38:52.960 look at the country. Like even with Trump in, they're still murdering babies. Like this is not 0.92

00:38:58.680 great. You know, our assets are still going up and our wages are still going down. A lot of young

00:39:04.640 men that move to Utah have a really hard time buying a home. Like it's really hard. It's still

00:39:09.400 really hard, but just remember that there's time on our hands. And so don't raise your eyes too

00:39:15.000 high and just build where you are, you know? So when the news media comes out with something

00:39:20.000 that's, like, really disappointing, or, you know, there's a bunch of, who knows, Zionist stuff that 0.87

00:39:25.320 comes out, and you're like, oh, man, this again, like, don't be discouraged. Just go home, lead 0.95

00:39:31.360 family worship, go worship God in your churches, and just keep building where you are. Yeah, I was

00:39:36.700 going to say, too, Dan, just to piggyback on that, I think that a lot of us just have to get

00:39:41.600 comfortable with the reality that we will be the tip of the spear, right? This is sort of the tip

00:39:47.580 the spirit generation and you're going to be out front many of you and you're going to be hated

00:39:53.580 and rejoice i said this yesterday but rejoice when you're persecuted because it's a good work

00:39:59.580 and you're doing it for your sons yeah we who cut stones envision cathedrals so this is this is

00:40:06.060 foundation work it's the ugly work it's the hard work that hopefully our our sons will stand on

00:40:11.740 our shoulders and continue. Amen. Well said. Shifting gears a little bit, one of the questions

00:40:18.900 that I have, and we'll start back over here on the left, but do you envision, Thomas, starting

00:40:27.260 with you, do you envision more over the next four years, thinking of the last four years? Because I

00:40:31.780 think this is a question that many in the audience would probably maybe, maybe not think to ask, but

00:40:38.600 be, you know, subconsciously wondering, there's been a lot of division and fracturing, particularly

00:40:45.660 not just the new Christian right, but particularly within the Reformed Church over the last few

00:40:50.040 years.

00:40:51.040 So if you think the last four years, divisions within the Reformed Church, do you think the

00:40:57.280 next four years, that it would have less fracturing than the previous four or more?

00:41:04.780 What do you think?

00:41:05.980 Well, I appreciate being to your left.

00:41:08.600 uh geographically yeah i'm uh i'm a moderate centrist

00:41:14.240 thank you thank you i believe that i like being the right wing extremist

00:41:23.120 vlad the impaler i think there's a point here though the last four years has seen a shift

00:41:32.300 rightward and some of the things that were extremist a few years ago right wing extremist

00:41:37.240 are now mainstream, they're being said by politicians in high places, they're being

00:41:44.260 legislated, and I've kind of been off the scene for a little while, so I haven't been

00:41:49.220 in it, but it feels like I've been watching things move in a direction that sometimes

00:41:54.700 I feel is beyond some things that I've seen in the past, and there have been divisions,

00:42:00.500 and I think there will be more divisions in the future, but I think with divisions there's

00:42:03.680 There's also reorganization.

00:42:06.100 There are people joining together.

00:42:08.320 Some of my friends just, I mean, it's anecdotally, I have more friends now than I did several

00:42:14.280 years ago, even though I had lost friends a few years ago.

00:42:19.740 But the friendships I have now are tighter and stronger.

00:42:23.060 The bonds of loyalty, trust, community are stronger.

00:42:27.920 The movement that's happening now, the right-wing movement across the entire Western world

00:42:33.160 is the sort of energy that creates new institutions.

00:42:36.700 I don't like creating new denominations,

00:42:38.420 but it is the sort of thing where you would see

00:42:40.200 new denominations rise.

00:42:41.820 It's that sort of world historical turning

00:42:44.060 where something like that happens.

00:42:45.240 New universities, new political parties.

00:42:48.520 We see this with the Republican Party,

00:42:50.020 the complete realignment of things.

00:42:52.380 The Democratic Party's absolute failure

00:42:54.820 to actually put forward any viable candidate

00:42:56.960 or sentient being in the past several years.

00:43:01.520 Sorry.

00:43:03.160 don't apologize here but i i think there will be i think there will be more fracturing because the

00:43:10.500 church is an institute the church institution here not the church universal it's it's a it's

00:43:15.940 an institution it's in the world and it moves sometimes even though it doesn't like to admit

00:43:21.140 it it moves sometimes with the currents and sometimes it moves against them and you see you

00:43:25.960 will see some fracturing and splitting and i think that people who are able to perceive that to plan

00:43:30.980 for it and to strategize will be able to guide Christians through it. And those are the sorts

00:43:36.100 of men and leaders that will arise during this movement. Yeah. Well said.

00:43:41.100 Yeah. I think I, I agree with all of that. I think, I mean, so much of, so much of this,

00:43:52.500 like the, um, conflicts and divisions in the reformed world. I mean, for one, like the reformed

00:44:00.220 world has like i've been in a long time it's always been this way right it has always been

00:44:07.540 wait you believe that about justification you are a heretic and it's like i just quoted calvin

00:44:13.740 what are you talking about um and so it's always been that way uh but i but i think like this

00:44:19.920 current iteration of the fighting it perfectly parallels what's going on culturally and

00:44:26.040 politically in the country, that there has been a significant rightward shift in the last five

00:44:32.460 years that has made it into the mainstream. I think J.D. Vance represents that. When he's

00:44:41.400 tweeting about the Ordo Amoris, for instance, it's like, only I knew about that a year ago.

00:44:50.100 And now the vice president just told millions of people, this is incredible. Not only me,

00:44:54.280 I got it from smarter guys than me, like CJ. 0.98

00:44:59.120 But you see that happening, and so the new Christian rite is ascendant. 0.99

00:45:07.860 It's growing.

00:45:08.960 People are discovering new and exciting things that used to be totally forbidden.

00:45:16.500 And what is going to happen is like five years from now,

00:45:21.620 The guys, many of the guys

00:45:24.340 Who are 0.56

00:45:25.540 Saying Eric Khan is going to hell

00:45:28.660 Because he's mean

00:45:30.480 On Twitter or something

00:45:31.440 What are the things they say about you? 0.98

00:45:34.900 Deeply wicked and idolatrous 0.94

00:45:36.620 Or Stephen Wolfe is an 1.00

00:45:38.320 Ethno-nationalist heretic

00:45:40.120 Things like that

00:45:40.800 Guys saying that five years from now

00:45:43.180 Are going to pretend they believe all the same stuff

00:45:46.720 We do right now

00:45:47.900 It's the same as COVID

00:45:49.560 Right everyone changed their opinion 18 months in but notice you have to understand human nature, right? We're reformed total depravity

00:45:56.800 What did they do all your friends or family members who said that you were an extremist and said all these 18 months later 0.98

00:46:02.840 When they realized that it was kind of stupid to wear three masks simultaneously in the shower alone 0.96

00:46:07.380 What did they do? 0.98

00:46:08.680 They came back to you as true Christians and they apologized and said you were right right now 0.86

00:46:14.460 What did they do? 0.99

00:46:15.700 They found a way to thread the needle to say,

00:46:18.280 I now agree with the position that you've been holding all along,

00:46:21.500 and I now hold the right position.

00:46:23.420 And when I held the direct contrary position 18 months ago,

00:46:27.000 I was also still right then. 0.78

00:46:29.820 And also, you're still a heretic for other reasons.

00:46:32.340 That's right, exactly. 0.84

00:46:33.080 So they would, and they would thread the needle however they had to,

00:46:37.160 to say, I'm right to agree with you now,

00:46:39.260 and I was also right to disagree with you then.

00:46:42.200 and they would say something like well the the uh scientific um you know it's it's the uh the

00:46:49.500 scientific data changed and that's why it was right then but also now holding you know the

00:46:54.520 directly contrary position is right now but really um the the science didn't change the medical

00:47:01.340 science didn't change the political science changed in other words the second that america

00:47:06.200 had the will to resist and said we're done with covid all of a sudden the scientists got in line

00:47:11.040 and said, oh, yeah, it's okay, go.

00:47:12.640 CJ had something to say.

00:47:13.960 No, I was going to say,

00:47:14.540 otherwise they were wrong in the right direction.

00:47:21.040 This all sounds so familiar.

00:47:23.560 Welcome to the roast of Joe Rubin.

00:47:25.220 I'm so white-pilled.

00:47:26.640 He's still white-pilled.

00:47:27.420 Well, so what I was going to say is you're all totally right.

00:47:33.660 I mean, we've all seen this, right?

00:47:35.160 And the difficult thing there is, like,

00:47:38.460 we have, we will have a needle that we have to thread there as well, where you want to give

00:47:44.880 people off ramps when they realize that they're wrong. Like, you don't want to just be bitter

00:47:49.460 where it's like, I am right. I'm always right. You're all stupid, right? No, it's like everybody

00:47:55.580 comes along at a different rate and, and you want to be gracious to them, um, to the extent that

00:48:01.820 you can. But at the same time, right, you don't want people that have been completely wrong for

00:48:08.280 a decade and attacking everybody who was right, now to get to be at the front of the stage

00:48:12.920 and say, all right, everyone listen to me now, because, right, I mean, like the Lord

00:48:17.420 says, if you're faithful in little, be faithful in much, and, like, they were unfaithful when

00:48:22.500 they were wrong, and now you're not going to hand them much, right?

00:48:25.540 Now it's like, okay, you can come along and be with us now, but, like, you don't get to,

00:48:30.000 like, tell us how it's going to go, right?

00:48:32.160 So that's a difficult needle to thread, because when the people, like with COVID, right,

00:48:38.280 and say, well, I was right then, and I'm actually right now.

00:48:41.980 Then they want to just retain the influence and prominence

00:48:45.580 and everything else that they had.

00:48:47.560 And they've demonstrated, well, I don't know if we can totally trust you anymore

00:48:53.700 and your judgment.

00:48:55.680 But it's difficult because you want to win people, right?

00:48:58.380 You don't want enemies.

00:48:59.820 I don't want guys saying nasty stuff about Eric and Steven and everyone else.

00:49:05.920 I defend them.

00:49:06.560 I said, these are actually good guys.

00:49:08.600 You should listen to them and be more patient.

00:49:12.700 And, like, I want our enemies to be friends, right?

00:49:17.240 And God promises this, right?

00:49:19.360 If a man's ways please the Lord, right, he makes even his enemies to be at peace with him, right?

00:49:23.940 We should be living that way.

00:49:26.440 And I think we have the opportunity to do that, right?

00:49:30.780 To be bold, to be courageous, but also to be extremely gracious when people are willing to bite the bullet and say, I was wrong, right, if they are, and to not attack them and keep the bitter feuds going.

00:49:47.220 I've never met anyone who does that, but I'm hopeful.

00:49:51.280 I was wrong.

00:49:53.440 Okay, Benjamin.

00:49:54.780 Yeah, I really like what Thomas said.

00:49:57.480 my answer, by the way, is that we will see more division over the next four years. I think that's

00:50:04.640 very clear. But to Thomas's point, you don't want to negate the connections that are formed over the

00:50:09.780 next four years, the real friendships, the real relationships that are very, very good, and they

00:50:14.400 kind of keep you rooted in a thing. But to kind of piggyback off of something A.D. said much earlier

00:50:20.400 and then what Isker just said, this is actually a very practical question. If the belief is that

00:50:27.000 there will be more division over the next four years, then the natural follow-up question is,

00:50:31.840 what do you do about it in your local setting, in your local church, in your business, in your

00:50:36.940 family? Because when you're trying to tether yourself back to something as strong as the

00:50:43.040 deep root of the Western tradition and the Western ethos, it will mean that you're repulsing everyone

00:50:48.980 else around you that's not trying to tether themselves to that. So how do you handle that?

00:50:53.360 And my answer would be, and this is especially on the church front, don't be a schismatic autist.

00:51:00.360 Be a well-adjusted human being that is pleasant to talk to, that can have a normal conversation with normal people,

00:51:07.960 even when they're not breaking out calculators when you bring up World War II, 0.98

00:51:11.440 even when they're not talking about the gynocracy all the time. 0.92

00:51:15.000 Be a well-adjusted human being. 0.77

00:51:16.660 Be kind, be charitable, be gracious, and be respectful.

00:51:21.160 Especially when your pastors aren't as with you

00:51:24.460 Aren't as far to the right with you

00:51:26.040 They still, you know, you salute the office

00:51:28.280 Not the man

00:51:28.860 Be respectful, be honorable to your pastors

00:51:31.440 When they still have your back

00:51:32.780 Despite disagreeing with you

00:51:34.220 That is a very honorable thing that they're doing

00:51:36.980 So just make sure that you're being

00:51:39.240 Kind

00:51:40.360 And normal

00:51:41.740 And not being crazy

00:51:43.340 That's helpful

00:51:44.400 Have a normal one

00:51:45.540 Alright

00:51:48.280 So as you all know

00:51:51.080 my favorite word is nuance. So I'm going to be nuanced. There's that Puerto Rican coming in

00:51:56.580 right there. Very reasonable. So yeah, I think the division will appear to increase. And when I say

00:52:03.420 appear, I mean the leadership of the evangelical church, and maybe even especially the reformed

00:52:11.700 church, the division is going to be more intense. But I don't think it's necessarily the case that

00:52:17.440 that's going to be the case for the people in the pews, necessarily. I talk to people all the time

00:52:22.020 where they have a pastor who's very antagonistic towards me and all the guys on this stage,

00:52:27.520 and their church is filled with people that watch and listen to and love all of our content.

00:52:34.540 And so there is a disconnect. And I think what's going on there,

00:52:38.880 sorry, Andrew, I'm going to talk about baseball for a second.

00:52:42.380 There's a great scene in Moneyball where...

00:52:45.220 I love that movie.

00:52:46.180 It's a great movie.

00:52:47.200 It ruined the sport, but I love the movie.

00:52:48.640 Yeah, it totally ruined the sport, right.

00:52:50.160 I agree with you on that, yeah.

00:52:52.920 But it's a new way to evaluate players and build your teams and whatever.

00:52:57.160 And so he gets a lot of pushback.

00:52:59.660 All the other general managers hate him.

00:53:02.100 His staff hates him.

00:53:03.800 But he ends up doing really well with his team,

00:53:05.800 and the owner of the Boston Red Sox wants to hire him.

00:53:09.200 And he says, look, the reason why everybody hates you

00:53:11.700 is because you're threatening their livelihood.

00:53:14.040 They've built their entire life on doing things a certain way,

00:53:17.880 and you're telling me that, no, there's a better way,

00:53:20.720 and it's more effective, and the way you're doing it is wrong, 0.76

00:53:25.080 and I'm going to beat you with less money.

00:53:27.880 So that's why they were so aggressive, right?

00:53:31.300 And so the leadership is very aggressive.

00:53:34.260 I never make these lists that you guys, you know, the black lists.

00:53:37.280 It's always Eric. It's always you guys.

00:53:39.040 Joel, you're always on that list.

00:53:40.340 One point, if you've read the book Moneyball

00:53:43.880 Michael Lewis, he makes the point

00:53:47.520 that Moneyball was actually attacked in the media

00:53:51.580 several times as racist, literally

00:53:54.540 and I remember reading that 10 years ago

00:53:56.860 and I'm like, wow, that sounds familiar

00:54:00.060 Yeah, it's so interesting

00:54:03.180 they have the same playbook for everything

00:54:06.700 It's totally universal, yeah

00:54:08.580 everything yeah it's amazing so that's kind of what's going on here because the people in the

00:54:13.400 pews that watch our content and love it and they get it their livelihoods aren't at stake

00:54:18.160 it's the people that have built a career talking about the five solas and that's the that's the

00:54:25.340 pinnacle of theology and everything we need to think about those are the ones whose livelihoods

00:54:30.600 are at stake so so you'll see an increase in rhetoric you'll see an increase in division

00:54:36.220 on the top levels. But I don't think you should get blackpilled. I don't think you should stress

00:54:41.760 out about the divisions that much, because for regular people, I mean, they get it. I mean,

00:54:48.220 it's hard to argue that the nation shouldn't be Christian. I've had these arguments before,

00:54:54.200 and they're just, they're shocking to me, the way that they go. It's very difficult to argue that,

00:54:59.580 but, you know, when your livelihood is at stake, you will argue that. And you'll try to make it

00:55:04.080 sound really good. And usually, you know, you're an effective communicator. You're an evangelical

00:55:07.520 leader. That's why you're there. So you can make, you could trick some people. And here's the thing.

00:55:12.080 Everyone has their sycophants too, right? There's, there's always going to be the James White

00:55:15.320 sycophant. So no matter what he says, they're going to go with it, but that's a very small

00:55:19.520 percentage of people. So don't stress out about the divisions. They're going to increase,

00:55:23.600 but I think it's going to be superficially. Well said. CJ.

00:55:27.880 yeah i would also give um sort of a nuanced answer but um as i as i'm known to do but

00:55:39.340 as one does as one does he made the distinction between the the leadership and the pews my

00:55:44.060 distinction might be the old guard and the new guard what i would say is don't think of um you

00:55:49.720 know the reform community or the new protestantism as a static pie where it's the same size as it was

00:55:55.680 20 years ago it's actually growing exponentially it's massive and so what's going to happen is the

00:56:01.900 the factions are going to be there but the number of people that are creating a united front is

00:56:07.060 actually much bigger and so the new guard they're ready to stand together because they've been on

00:56:12.020 the receiving end of a regime of a media of a corporate class of a money class that hates them

00:56:18.320 and they know that and they're ready to stand together they're i tell my sons all the time

00:56:21.940 that loyalty is the preeminent virtue of our age.

00:56:25.140 And I think that that's what this,

00:56:27.560 yeah, I mean, like, seriously,

00:56:28.720 loyalty is-

00:56:29.640 You should get a standing ovation.

00:56:30.860 Loyalty.

00:56:31.920 Yeah, please, at least one.

00:56:33.800 Please clap.

00:56:35.120 All right, all right.

00:56:41.160 All right, thank you.

00:56:41.880 I just, I need the white pill juices

00:56:43.160 every once in a while.

00:56:45.400 Andrew scolded me before,

00:56:46.720 and he's like, you better be optimistic.

00:56:48.160 I need to sell books.

00:56:49.060 so yeah go buy boniface option by andrew isker um ghost written by cj engel

00:56:56.060 no but but to continue my that is not true at all he's never even read it

00:57:02.720 why would he read something he already wrote

00:57:06.880 for premium subscribers we'll duke this out later live

00:57:13.220 all right so yeah to continue my answer i think that the new coalition is is much bigger the

00:57:20.600 factions will be there but a lot of it is just going to be this inability by the old guard to

00:57:26.320 cope with the the rising generation i think that's what's going to happen so the factions will be

00:57:31.480 there um but i i really have this sense that um that that these new these rising uh protestants

00:57:39.580 that are self-consciously pro-Christendom,

00:57:42.080 I think they're ready to stand united together.

00:57:44.660 As we saw on the panel last night,

00:57:46.640 I mean, this is a civilizational battle.

00:57:49.180 The media is not reporting on people

00:57:51.820 that disagree over the five points of Calvinism, right?

00:57:55.320 That's not where we're at.

00:57:56.520 Who cares?

00:57:57.420 Those books have been written.

00:57:58.780 These are civilizational questions.

00:58:00.300 And I think the new guard, the much bigger pie,

00:58:03.160 is ready to stand together.

00:58:04.480 And I don't think the factions

00:58:05.780 will be very obvious among that crew.

00:58:07.880 yeah cj before eric goes i want to butt in uh as as i want to do but uh no i mean like the point

00:58:16.340 that you're making though is is absolutely right like so much of the fighting and division that

00:58:20.260 has happened uh maybe since the reformation uh within the reformed world is is like this fight

00:58:28.100 over this tiny little pie of like market share of reformed christians right and they're just

00:58:33.520 stealing from each other's churches, and that's basically it.

00:58:39.360 And there are millions of people, especially young men, that are open to the gospel.

00:58:49.300 And the door that they're open to and what makes them this field wipe for the harvest

00:58:53.520 is they see the civilizational question right before them, and nobody has an answer to it 0.76

00:59:01.160 at all, other than Christians, and particularly Christians that are rooted in the experience

00:59:09.540 of Christendom. And so offering that to them grows the pie so much bigger, where it's not like,

00:59:16.740 oh, I'm going to fight over the people that listen to this podcast, and so I can win the

00:59:21.700 podcast bracket, which we almost did. Which is also important. Yeah, it's very important. Make

00:59:26.600 sure you vote early in office next time. Yeah. I was going to say, did we win? Who won? Who won

00:59:32.020 last year? I don't even remember. Yeah. Anyway. I think there's a trophy last year, but, uh,

00:59:37.460 but anyway, uh, yeah, I got, I'm just not funny enough. Uh, it was, uh, the, the big Baptist guy. 0.61

00:59:45.700 Yeah. Yeah. Uh, I think I'm funnier than he is, but whatever. Uh, anyway, um, like the pie is,

00:59:52.720 is going to grow. Uh, nobody, nobody laughed at that. Uh, I'm sure your wife did.

01:00:00.240 Yeah. Yeah. Maybe my mom too. Um, like the pie is going to grow, right? There are, there are,

01:00:07.840 there are millions of people that are, are seeing the stuff that we're saying. I mean,

01:00:12.400 I look at like, like Joel's YouTube channel. What's it? 130,000 subs, 125. Like, like how

01:00:18.820 many of them three years ago were Christians? That's the most common email I get is I just

01:00:27.600 became a Christian. I found you because of either based political content or because you had Ben

01:00:34.680 come on so that you could talk over him. But for real, it's like Ben and Brian, and I'm picking on

01:00:42.420 myself. That's my bad. But Ben and Brian, it's either Nephilim or political stuff. But the

01:00:48.660 point is in either case they weren't christian and it was like i mean haunted cosmos you talk

01:00:53.900 about a gateway drug to to south asia it's evangelistic yeah it's evangelistic yeah so

01:01:00.120 yeah a lot of people getting saved and i mean i'm in a much smaller we only have 3 000 uh yeah but

01:01:06.280 you guys you're gonna get there you're killing yeah we're much smaller like the conversations

01:01:12.060 i have with people it's the exact same thing where it's like uh three four years ago i wasn't a

01:01:16.780 christian uh i see all these things going on and um i am now uh because of because of guys like

01:01:24.460 up here and many others uh and praise god by the way yeah praise the lord he's saving people

01:01:30.620 we want to win the country but we like these people that we're winning to also go to heaven

01:01:35.720 and god is saving people amen god's saving people and and and so it's like you know and people will

01:01:41.300 criticize like oh well you're just doing secret sensitive christianity but with politics and it's

01:01:45.940 like, no, I'm not. I'm just trying to tell the truth about stuff. And these people want to hear

01:01:51.640 it. And then they also hear the truth that Jesus Christ became a man and died on the cross and was

01:01:59.640 risen from the dead and ascended to heaven for your salvation, right? They hear that. And that's

01:02:06.000 like always the criticism that we get, you know, is like, they don't share the gospel at these

01:02:09.600 conferences. They don't have an altar call. And it's like, well, I mean, pretty much everybody

01:02:14.020 here is already Christian. The gospel will be sufficiently preached on the Lord's Day tomorrow.

01:02:18.940 Yeah, amen. So anyway, like the pie is growing. That's my point. That's, I think, CJ's point,

01:02:24.280 and I'll shut up and let Eric talk. Eric, thank you. That was good. Yeah, it's really good. I

01:02:29.060 think especially in the Reformed world, the thing that we have to get over is the crab barrel 0.61

01:02:33.260 that we live in, right? And that's going to be really hard, I think, because as Andrew pointed 0.89

01:02:38.240 out, that's just been the modus operandi for so long. So especially for, I would say, like the

01:02:43.680 40 to 50 year old pastors maybe the younger guys too we talk about things like being boomer coded 0.61

01:02:50.260 right and and you're talking about not all boomers but you're talking about the bad ones

01:02:55.560 right but the problem is when you look at that it's like there's also a lot of younger guys who

01:03:01.660 follow that lead and what you have to do is you have to actually say to the young guys like again

01:03:07.180 you don't have to play the cancellation game there's this thing and reform people don't know

01:03:12.540 this, so I'm going to let you in on a little secret. You can disagree with people and be their

01:03:16.680 friend. Have you seen it done? Heretic. Yeah. So this is the thing. It's like you can have a

01:03:26.840 conversation and it could be about a range of political things. And you can say, yeah, I think

01:03:32.480 that's a pretty dumb opinion, Andrew, whatever it is. You've never said that to me. Well, I know you 0.94

01:03:36.760 and CJ probably say this all the time. All the time. All the time. And then you move on and you

01:03:41.160 say, yeah, and we're going to keep building together. And so I think tied with that is also

01:03:45.920 just, Brian talks about this all the time, but this idea that there's not a fixed pie of glory,

01:03:53.460 right? Like I don't look at Joel and say, wow, his conference is big, then mine won't be.

01:03:59.060 And ours will be big too, because Joel will be there. So way to go, Joel.

01:04:04.220 and he will walk up on the stage

01:04:07.160 with zero notes 0.96

01:04:08.800 and crotch it.

01:04:11.100 Joel, in his own words,

01:04:12.640 brings all the boys to the yard.

01:04:14.460 That's a direct quote.

01:04:15.520 True story.

01:04:17.200 It's funny,

01:04:18.140 but Ben helped point out 1.00

01:04:20.160 it's also super gay 0.96

01:04:21.840 and I need to find a different way to sing. 0.98

01:04:25.660 CJ has no idea.

01:04:26.960 That's a rap song. 0.89

01:04:29.220 I'm so black-pilled. 0.89

01:04:30.420 he just he just careened back into the black belt under christian nationalism 0.92

01:04:36.780 rap will be gone but what about christian rap i said rap

01:04:40.760 yeah so i i just think escaping that mentality where uh it really does in reformed world it can

01:04:50.000 turn into turf warfare um and so one of the best practical things to do is just like when your

01:04:55.400 friends are winning, celebrate the victories with them. It's really that simple. When Andrew's on

01:05:01.060 Tucker, I mean, every human being has a temptation to say, well, I wish I was on Tucker, right? But

01:05:07.380 instead you say, dude, this is a win for all of us. God is doing amazing things. I don't know if

01:05:13.120 you guys heard that interview, but I think the gospel is going out on the largest podcast in

01:05:18.700 the world i mean praise god yeah amen you don't get envious what you do instead is you text both

01:05:26.780 andrew and cj right before the recording and beg them shamelessly please tell tucker my name

01:05:32.860 yeah that's what you do you're not envious you growl i did use his bathroom yeah

01:05:39.040 Golden Toilet probably is it?

01:05:43.220 Oh, yeah, yeah.

01:05:45.800 Dan Burke, old man.

01:05:48.200 Battles on the right.

01:05:49.700 Okay.

01:05:52.380 I really like what Andrew said earlier

01:05:54.280 about noticing that there are going to be people

01:05:56.800 that have disagreed with us for a long time

01:05:58.720 and then pretend like it didn't happen.

01:06:00.860 And here's the thing.

01:06:02.100 Just because fights are happening

01:06:04.120 doesn't necessarily mean that's a bad thing.

01:06:06.980 Yeah, that's right.

01:06:07.620 it's inevitable. Actually, Eric said something to me a little while ago. He said, the primary

01:06:13.680 battles are going to be on the right. It's shifted because the power dynamics are shifting.

01:06:19.560 The main battles are on the right. And the temptation though, is to let guys who, I don't

01:06:24.880 know, instead of attacking you personally, decides to say that you're a church and the people you've

01:06:30.600 been ministering to almost a decade have been laboring with, have done funerals for their 0.99

01:06:36.880 children, say, your church is laced with poo. And then pretend like that doesn't happen. That 0.95

01:06:42.780 cannot be tolerated. Subversives will come and they will try to steal whatever movement and

01:06:50.820 whatever unity that we actually have. And I don't think it can be tolerated. And so that would be

01:06:56.920 the warning is like, I understand like forgiveness. If there's repentance, absolutely. But if there's

01:07:03.480 no repentance. You can't just like pretend that none of this happened and just continue and try

01:07:08.240 to take over the, you know, any momentum that we have, any unity that we have, because the enemy

01:07:13.560 will always seek to divide. And so, I mean, we're, we're united. Like we're, we're, you know,

01:07:20.360 you're my guys. We're on the same team and nothing would give the enemy more joy than to see us

01:07:26.540 fighting. So that would be the warning. It was like, just because there are fights doesn't mean

01:07:31.540 that there shouldn't be you know laced with poo that sounds like a twitter account with 13

01:07:38.400 followers nobody nobody talks like that nobody that's now maybe it was oddly specific that was

01:07:43.260 a hypothetical example that can't be true yeah all right so my answer to my question if i'm allowed

01:07:49.320 to do that um joel we're going on to the next i'm doing it i'm doing it um so we were talking

01:07:56.460 about this on wednesday night uh in the parking lot uh with with me and the ogden guys and

01:08:02.780 this is my thought you know in the simplest way that i can say it is um divisions the encouraging

01:08:09.760 part and i think like this has been a surprise i feel like every single guy on this panel has

01:08:14.180 been super optimistic and so i hope that you guys feel hopeful and feel encouraged even cj

01:08:19.220 especially cj it's actually because of cj yeah king optimism way to go um so

01:08:26.440 So in keeping with that spirit of optimism, division is really encouraging because, I mean,

01:08:33.720 you'd like to not have it, but it's inevitable. And Dan's right. But what it signifies. So it's

01:08:39.380 not that you rejoice in the division itself, but what it signifies is victory. Divisions are

01:08:46.440 luxury. Divisions are the luxury of having experienced some kind of meaningful, significant

01:08:54.680 victory, right? You don't get church row. You know what I mean? Church, like every town,

01:09:01.460 some old Southern town, there's a street. It's not just that the town has 20 churches.

01:09:06.620 There's one street in a town of like 8,000 people with 20 churches on church row on the same street.

01:09:14.820 You've got the Methodist church and the Baptist church and then another Baptist church and then

01:09:18.880 another Baptist church that doesn't admit that they're Baptist. We're non-denominational,

01:09:22.100 which just for the record every non-denominational church is a baptist church and then you know and

01:09:26.960 then you've got the presbyterian and the anglican and episcopalian you know and you've got but do

01:09:31.360 you know what that means um that is actually um that's that's yesterday's fruit of christopher

01:09:40.400 you can only afford the luxury of being that particular because those divisions they're

01:09:46.840 divisions over very particular things, right? Particular Baptists. It's literally in the name, 0.99

01:09:52.560 in the name of that. But what the particular Baptist is saying is he's saying the Presbyterians

01:09:57.980 were so successful and the Anglicans that I can now afford to be particular. That's, that's what

01:10:05.340 that means. And I am a particular Baptist, but that is what it means. And I recognize that. And

01:10:09.700 I'm grateful for that. I'm grateful for the, you know, the Presbyterian revolt, you know, 0.68

01:10:14.500 and the Black Robe Regiment and all these guys that paved the way so that Baptists could, you know,

01:10:19.320 still pretend to be persecuted, but not actually persecuted, you know?

01:10:23.680 I'm grateful for that. 0.96

01:10:25.160 And so, but, and I don't do that, but a lot of Baptists do. 0.98

01:10:29.080 And so my point is this, division is luxury and it signifies, it's the proof that you've won. 0.97

01:10:36.200 And because of that, here's my point.

01:10:38.520 Steve Dates said this, and he was so right.

01:10:41.820 I thought it was the most profound thing that he said on the panel yesterday.

01:10:45.360 He said, I'm almost like secretly hoping for another COVID or something.

01:10:50.220 Because what he's saying, and it's wise, what he's saying is that that united us.

01:10:56.460 Having a common, formidable enemy is unifying.

01:11:02.320 Having a massive victory is actually fracturing.

01:11:06.640 because because you've had enough victory where you now can afford to specialize and and and so

01:11:16.740 I actually think and I'm not I'm not happy about this but I just want to be realistic okay so the

01:11:22.220 white pill is it's because we're winning that's the optimism but now on not not pessimism but

01:11:28.000 just realism on the realistic side of the equation I think we're naive if we think that all the

01:11:35.780 fracturing and the divisions are behind us. Um, I actually think four years under Trump

01:11:42.880 creates the conducive environment out of, out of a luxury for actually more divisions than,

01:11:50.520 you know, the dark ages, the true dark ages, which was 2020 through 2024. Um, because we didn't have

01:11:57.200 the luxury we, because we were the underdog, because we were actually, you know, the, the

01:12:02.640 ones who were experiencing, you know, being ostracized.

01:12:07.280 We couldn't afford to be so particular.

01:12:10.800 And so I think now that there's the luxury of winning, you're going to see more divisions.

01:12:14.560 But I'll say this, so that the hope is, the excitement and encouragement is we're winning.

01:12:21.460 The realistic statement is because we're winning, there's going, I think, to be more, not less,

01:12:28.200 fracturing.

01:12:28.660 I think in 2020, we all kind of felt like, okay, this was the litmus test.

01:12:34.280 Everyone's rearranging accordingly.

01:12:36.400 Now we know our teams.

01:12:38.100 And that was, I thought that. 0.99

01:12:39.360 And that was dumb. 1.00

01:12:40.280 That was stupid. 1.00

01:12:41.500 You don't get off the rails for 75 years and fix it in six months. 1.00

01:12:46.040 That doesn't happen.

01:12:47.680 And so for us to think, well, now it's happened, I think would also be naive.

01:12:52.400 And in some cases, more naive because fool me once, shame on you.

01:12:55.240 But fool me twice, three times a lady, as George Bush would say.

01:12:58.660 you know something like that and you know and so my point is um i don't think that the cement

01:13:03.740 still hasn't dried things are actually still shifting we should expect that and not be

01:13:08.540 discouraged by it part of the increased shift is the luxury of the victory that lord the lord has

01:13:14.560 given us and and my counsel it's not even a warning but my counsel is the divisions are

01:13:20.220 going to still happen but i think we can divide better we're going to divide but we don't have 0.57

01:13:27.300 to divide with, with laced with poop. So, you know what I mean? Like, so I, I think we're going to

01:13:32.760 have more divisions as a sig, a signifying of the fact that we've had more victory. Praise the Lord.

01:13:38.980 And with these more divisions, they don't have to be mean divisions. So we had a bunch of divisions.

01:13:44.960 I think we're going to have more, but I think we can divide better, I guess is what I'm saying.

01:13:49.140 Joel, could I make an observation real quick here? The people who talk about how they have much in

01:13:54.080 common with fellow Christians than their actual neighbors. You'll often see these people, they're

01:14:00.560 the ones who are burning bridges, who are kicking people out of their friend groups or social groups

01:14:06.360 who are hurting churches. And it's a funny meme online that shows some left-wing girl and her 0.99

01:14:14.380 friend, she says she loves the world, and her friend group is everyone who looks just like her.

01:14:18.540 And then it's some right-wing guy who's a really bad guy.

01:14:22.300 And all of his friend group, it's like people from all over the world who are just like,

01:14:26.520 they're like, yeah, we're all together, we're all friends,

01:14:28.620 even though we're supposedly these really ethnically particular people.

01:14:32.480 And I think last year, as I was kind of watching things from the sideline,

01:14:36.840 there was a discussion about netter, no enemies to the right.

01:14:41.740 And it seemed like there was a lot of fighting over that.

01:14:43.980 And to me, I was kind of not black-pilled, but I was disappointed

01:14:47.280 because that was just a discussion to get to a place where we merely don't fight each other on

01:14:52.140 the right. And, but even if you can get there, that's not enough. You actually have to befriend

01:14:56.840 people on the right. And someone, I did not come up with this, but someone said better befriend

01:15:01.760 everyone to the right. And I'm not saying do that. A little corny, but it's good. Yeah. Yeah. But,

01:15:07.480 but the point is you actually have to form friendships and fighting is men fight. That's

01:15:13.080 what we do. Iron sharpens iron. It's not a pleasant process for the iron, right? You're actually

01:15:17.820 rubbing things away. It's fighting. And when you get into a fight with someone, you know more about

01:15:21.780 yourself and that person when that happens. You learn something about your enemy. We go overseas

01:15:25.960 in the military and we fight with them. We learn their language. We dress like them. We start to

01:15:29.360 talk like them a little bit to get involved with them. This happened with Vietnam. It happened with 0.99

01:15:33.320 Germany many other times in history. The Germans came over here and fought in the Revolutionary

01:15:36.860 War and they ended up staying here. So anyway, when you get into a fight, there's a lot of good 0.99

01:15:40.900 things that grow out of that this is what some of these guys are saying and further if we could

01:15:44.740 merely stop fighting each other that's good that's neutral but you have to actually form

01:15:48.060 friendships as well you have to form relationships so we have a lot of work to do and i'm just trying

01:15:52.420 to encourage us i'm not trying to black pill there no you're right that's really good and i think

01:15:56.800 right now like everyone's going to be making their individual calculus because of that victory

01:16:00.580 some guys it's like we all fought together and we pushed because we had to and there was a common

01:16:05.440 enemy but at this point some guys are going to be like their calculus personally uh is going to be

01:16:10.880 okay but from here on moving forward my goal is i'm just trying to win over normies in the sbc

01:16:16.600 well if that's your goal that's a that's a noble goal there's nothing wrong with that we shouldn't

01:16:21.700 disparage that but if your goal is to win normies in the sbc you can love me and we can have phone

01:16:27.580 calls and be friends but you probably aren't going to have me on your podcast so it's a division but

01:16:34.020 it's a calculated division and it's not a relational division it's it's a strategic division

01:16:39.060 You know what I mean? So like there are guys who two years ago, I would have, they would have been on stage. And some of those guys, you know, there was, there was some of the mean division that I talked about, but some of those guys, there's no mean division. There's still our guys. But, but for, for their purposes and what they're trying to achieve privately, we're still friends publicly.

01:17:01.520 they're not necessarily

01:17:03.660 going to, you know, hey, let's get Joel

01:17:05.400 on the pod to talk about repealing

01:17:07.320 the 19th Amendment. It's like,

01:17:08.900 we love you, Joel, but it's like

01:17:11.280 Michael, that's not

01:17:13.240 super helpful for Michael, and that's okay.

01:17:15.720 And I think on both sides, that guy

01:17:17.440 needs to not publicly try to shame

01:17:19.560 me. And then I also need

01:17:21.480 to not be petty and

01:17:23.440 offended by that. I need to be

01:17:25.380 wise enough to recognize, I know what you're doing

01:17:27.400 and that's good. And I'm not

01:17:29.520 and I don't take that personally.

01:17:30.660 That's a really good point.

01:17:31.800 Michael Jordan, and I took that person.

01:17:33.120 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:17:34.420 I think that's a really good point.

01:17:36.480 There's a lot of times where there'll be conflict,

01:17:40.120 and whatever comes of the conflict,

01:17:42.340 there may be the tactical division in the best way.

01:17:46.480 But a lot of men will also blame their cowardice on tactics.

01:17:50.720 They'll cloak over their own cowardice with saying,

01:17:53.160 well, I'm just being tactical, you know?

01:17:55.580 And that's sin, because cowardice is sin.

01:17:59.300 However, for those that are actually being above board, they're good men and they are actually being tactical.

01:18:07.360 There should be a level of respect and understanding between people that are made for different things.

01:18:13.300 So when God makes people, he doesn't make them all the same and he makes them for different purposes.

01:18:18.820 And so the one who's the pastor should maybe have a tactical division at times with the one who's a political theorist.

01:18:26.260 right not in not a mean division but a good one and he's not being cowardly but he should still

01:18:31.180 respect to the utmost the nobility of what the political theorist is doing and vice versa like

01:18:37.200 hypothetically well said there could be like hypothetically a christian prince who is a state

01:18:43.500 senator and who loves you and personally you have a relationship with him and he's praying for you

01:18:48.760 and encouraging you and yet at the same time he could be up for re-election in the near future

01:18:53.980 and it just might not be advantageous, you know, to, to do something crazy, you know, publicly

01:18:59.280 together. And you can understand that calculus and you say, you know what, you're smart and I

01:19:05.040 respect you and I love you. I was just going to say, you even see this in the Bible. You know,

01:19:10.180 I always talk about Ezra and Nehemiah. They, they approach the same exact problem. The problem was

01:19:14.860 the, the, the, the Israelites were intermarrying with the pagans and, uh, Ezra, you know, he's a

01:19:21.940 priest. He prays to God. He tears his clothes. He pulls his hair out. He's in anguish. And then

01:19:28.100 Nehemiah sees the same situation, and he's not a priest. And so he doesn't pull his hair out. He

01:19:35.000 pulls their hair out, and he beats them. And he forces them to swear they're not going to do it

01:19:40.740 again, that kind of thing. And both of those men are praised in the Bible, and they don't fight

01:19:45.640 each other. Ezra doesn't have to join Nehemiah in pulling out people's hair. And Nehemiah doesn't

01:19:51.660 have to, you know, tear his own clothes. He doesn't have to do what Ezra's doing, but they're both

01:19:56.880 necessary. They're built for different things. That's what you were just saying. Yeah. Everyone's

01:20:01.140 built the same and then not everyone has the same job either. Yeah. And even within the same lane,

01:20:06.400 there can be differences of disposition. Another good example would be Moses and Phineas. So you

01:20:12.580 have this man leading a Midianite woman into his tent. Moses kind of stands by and he's sorrowful

01:20:18.140 over it. He's, you know, weeping before God for the sin of his people. Phineas just goes and kills

01:20:23.220 them. And God says, you will make a great priest. You've atoned for the sins of the people by the 1.00

01:20:29.060 spilling of blood. And so you have two priests there, more or less. Moses is a prophet, but he's

01:20:33.840 very priestly in his work. And they respond differently, tactically, sincerely, and they

01:20:40.700 respect each other for it. And God also commends both. Well said. We're going to go ahead and wrap

01:20:46.720 it up cj i i've enjoyed your friendship getting to know you and uh you're super gifted and super

01:20:53.860 sharp and you didn't get to go on tucker but you got to go on joel webin it's not the same

01:20:59.140 i was chaperoned i want to give you uh unchaperoned i will i will physically i can't physically do

01:21:07.320 this but i would attempt to hold andrew down if he interrupts uh why don't you close this out with

01:21:12.000 the final word. Yeah. Doesn't someone control his mic this time? Yeah, that's right. That's

01:21:16.240 a way easier solution than me trying to. All right. Close this out. Let's see.

01:21:23.520 There you go. All right. Do you mind coming into the studio with us?

01:21:28.260 I'd be honored. Okay. Yeah. Close this out. Let me just say this.

01:21:33.440 the the fight is long and we will see great victories and we will see and experience

01:21:43.920 tactical defeats and I would say in the midst of of the optimism and the momentum and the energy

01:21:50.860 and all of these things I think the regime is not something that's just going to let go and

01:21:55.580 they're going to say okay there's there's a you know popular will to to change things and and

01:22:00.000 we're no longer popular and that's just the way it is, I think that we need to be prepared

01:22:04.500 to go through the pit together. And I think that's one of the lessons that we're only seeing

01:22:09.940 the tip of the iceberg of. All the little attention that we're getting, I mean, Andrew

01:22:14.440 being on Tecker, that's a symbol that there's a tidal wave coming. And with your boys in the

01:22:21.180 trenches, they are your lifeblood. And I know I already said this and I tell this to my boys all

01:22:27.620 the time. Like, like one of the things I get them in trouble for, and they're listening, so this is

01:22:33.480 good. Um, one of the things they get in trouble for is tattletailing. Okay. Keep your friends

01:22:38.700 accountable. Don't let them sin, but reprimand them privately. And you don't come and tattletale

01:22:43.760 to me because you are loyal to the death. And, and, and I tell them this all the time. And I,

01:22:49.700 you know, and I, Andrew and I tease on, on here and, and I, and I, but I always tell him, and he

01:22:53.900 knows this too unless he buys a tesla i am with him to the bitter end yeah but i actually i actually

01:23:01.380 own a tesla but um but but that's i think that's the lesson of the new christian right and i think

01:23:10.800 that's one of the the things that explains the failure of the secular light is they really

01:23:15.340 um they ate themselves alive when when they came into conflict with um you know the ideology that

01:23:22.400 the money, the tensions of being on the wrong side of history, you know, so-called, they

01:23:27.140 really, they turned against each other, and they got bitter toward each other, they took

01:23:31.420 advantage of each other, they were jealous of each other, they were envious of each other,

01:23:35.380 and they actually were their own worst enemies, and I think that's one of the things that

01:23:39.360 we have to take to heart, and this is one of the reasons that the left won, actually,

01:23:43.840 because they were no enemies to the left, and that's what they did for 75 years, and

01:23:48.780 we need to remember that that loyalty is something that's very clearly laid out in the bible as

01:23:54.200 something that we ought to pursue relentlessly and that's what i would say yes energy is on our side

01:24:00.300 yes we have a lot of optimism ahead of us but as we enter the trenches you look to your brother

01:24:05.520 and your sister in christ and you say i am here for you to the bitter end and i think that's the

01:24:11.740 lesson that we need to take to heart in the coming decades amen my friend john phillips

01:24:18.620 He's here serving at the conference and he said last night there are friends Joel

01:24:22.840 And then there are a few friends that are willing to help you bury the body

01:24:27.360 Those those are you friends

01:24:30.060 All right, let's pray real quick father. Thank you for this conference. Thank you for

01:24:35.420 Thank you for these men on stage with me Lord

01:24:37.540 But thank you for the men and women and even the children who are attending this conference we

01:24:42.420 We, our success is in many ways their success.

01:24:46.920 It's because of their prayers.

01:24:48.160 It's because of their encouragement.

01:24:50.160 It's because of them entering the fray on X

01:24:53.420 and helping to defend us

01:24:55.160 and their financial support and giving

01:24:58.540 and all these different things.

01:25:00.300 And so, Lord, I pray that you would bless these men.

01:25:02.980 But I pray, Lord, that you would especially bless

01:25:05.400 all the people who came and drove and flew

01:25:08.840 from all over the world to be here.

01:25:10.720 I pray that there would be a rich blessing

01:25:13.540 Lord I pray that you would give us

01:25:15.420 wisdom and you would give us courage

01:25:17.180 all for your glory in the name of your son

01:25:19.200 Jesus, Amen

The NXR Podcast - June 28, 2025

THE CONFERENCE - Panel 2 - Isker, Garrett, Robles, Berkholder, Conn, Engel, Achord, and Webbon

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