The NXR Podcast - THE FRIDAY SPECIAL - Dispensationalism Has Had Terrible Consequences

00:00:00.000 Leave us a five-star review on your favorite podcast platform.

00:00:03.800 I get it. It's annoying. Everybody asks, but I'm going to tell you why.

00:00:07.700 When you give us a positive review, what that does is it triggers the algorithm

00:00:12.040 so that our podcast shows up on more people's news feeds.

00:00:16.280 You and I both know that this ministry is willing to talk about things that most ministries aren't.

00:00:21.820 We need this content for the glory of God to reach more people's ears.

00:00:26.800 When they returned to the Mount of Olives, where they had been staying,

00:00:29.600 They ask him privately what he meant by that.

00:00:32.440 When will all these buildings be destroyed?

00:00:34.660 What is the sign of him coming in judgment on Jerusalem and on the end of the old creation?

00:00:41.060 Again, it is crucial to understand that they are not asking about the second coming

00:00:45.880 and physical return of Jesus Christ, nor the end of space and time.

00:00:52.220 Remember the context.

00:00:54.080 They're specifically asking about the temple's destruction,

00:00:57.060 about his coming in judgment on that place which is inextricably linked at the very center of the old creation.

00:01:27.060 All right, Matthew 24, all of that discourse, hashtag that postmill.

00:01:33.400 That's right.

00:01:34.440 Here we go.

00:01:35.080 You know, we had somebody in the comments with a live stream that we did yesterday at the time of this recording.

00:01:39.500 It would have been yesterday.

00:01:41.040 And they said, are these guys pre-trib or post-trib?

00:01:45.040 And you and I were both like, we're post-trib, just really, really, really post.

00:01:51.200 Really, really post-trib.

00:01:53.200 We believe the tribulation happened about 1,950 years ago.

00:01:59.980 Yeah, yeah.

00:02:00.780 2070 is going to be quite the anniversary.

00:02:03.360 It's coming up.

00:02:04.420 2,000-year anniversary of the tribulation.

00:02:06.920 That's right.

00:02:07.600 All right, so what does this have to do with everything that we're talking about?

00:02:10.960 We're talking about Christian perspective of Israel, talking about the end of the Old Covenant, the inauguration of the New.

00:02:20.700 So what's going on in Matthew 24?

00:02:22.720 what's the context? Yeah, well, it's this serious judgment that Christ is describing

00:02:30.040 to Israel. He's explaining to them, right, what, and to the disciples, what is going to happen,

00:02:36.560 this massive judgment. And I think, you know, a lot of Christians, because we're not steeped

00:02:41.860 in the Old Testament and have a good understanding of the Old Covenant, we don't get what a big deal

00:02:49.580 that is for Jesus to say that, to say that this is what is going to happen. We don't, I think,

00:02:57.720 understand accurately or well enough what the Old Covenant was and how it operated,

00:03:06.660 what the features of it were, and so forth. So, this Old Covenant world, the very center of the

00:03:13.160 world, right, in God's economy, it isn't, the most important place in the world isn't Rome

00:03:17.620 or isn't some other empire or great civilization elsewhere in the world like China at the time

00:03:24.080 is another example. It's not about that. God doesn't care about those places as much as he

00:03:31.640 cares about Israel and in particular Jerusalem and the temple, the temple, Mount Zion and Mount

00:03:43.240 Moriah, right? This is where his throne is. This is where he has placed his presence on earth in

00:03:49.080 the old covenant. And so, for him to judge it, for him to destroy it, right? That means the end.

00:03:56.640 That means that it is over. And one of the things I think as when I was younger and I'm just trying

00:04:04.260 to think through the theology of all of these things that sort of, you know, bothered me when

00:04:09.740 I was in my, you know, kind of, you know, normie, you know, evangelical, you know, world

00:04:15.160 was, right, you had, we're the new covenant, but what exactly happens to the old covenant,

00:04:22.680 right? It's kind of a mystery. Like, oh, the old covenant is just hanging out there somewhere.

00:04:27.940 And here, this event, right, it's not described anywhere in scripture as having already happened,

00:04:35.320 Right. And so here Jesus makes this major prophecy and in the pages of scripture, we don't find it fulfilled anywhere.

00:04:45.240 And this, of course, that fact that it isn't shown as fulfilled in the pages of Scripture causes a lot of problems for the church because then people will say, well, this must be, I mean, you read the language of Matthew 24.

00:05:02.760 This must be the end of the world.

00:05:05.940 This must be really bad, something that's maybe around the corner.

00:05:10.840 Like, look at the things happening.

00:05:12.820 There's wars and rumors of wars.

00:05:14.440 and they're correct in the sense that it wasn't the end of the world, but it was the end of a

00:05:21.500 world. It was the end of their world that they were currently in. Right. Well, their world in

00:05:27.020 a local geographic sense, but also the end of a world in the sense of a period of time and what

00:05:34.660 God had done thus far. It's the closing of not the whole book, but the closing of a significant

00:05:40.600 chapter. Yeah, and it isn't even just local and regional. It's that the center of the globe to God

00:05:48.040 was the temple, then Israel around it, then the rest of the world. I mean, you see this

00:05:52.740 all throughout the Old Testament, these like three spheres.

00:06:01.160 The family, the church, and the state.

00:06:02.760 Right, but you see that the way God constructs the world from Genesis 1, you have the sanctuary, the garden, you have the land, Eden, and then you have the rest of the world.

00:06:19.120 And you see in the beginning of Genesis, there's three falls that occur in the book of Genesis.

00:06:26.520 The first one is Adam and Eve in the sanctuary.

00:06:29.960 They fall and they're kicked out of the sanctuary.

00:06:33.100 Where?

00:06:33.680 Into the land, into the land of Eden.

00:06:35.640 They can't go back in the sanctuary, but they're there in the land of Eden.

00:06:39.100 Then the next fall is Cain killing his brother Abel.

00:06:43.380 And what happens to him?

00:06:44.320 He's kicked out of the land into the world.

00:06:47.600 And then the third fall, we won't get into the details of this one.

00:06:52.980 And that's for the Ogden guys to argue with me about.

00:06:57.140 But, right, the sons of God marry the daughters of men.

00:07:01.280 There's great corruption on the earth.

00:07:03.300 What happens there?

00:07:04.700 God exiles them all from the world in the flood.

00:07:09.500 So there's these three concentric spheres of the world.

00:07:15.220 And then later on, there is a new sanctuary.

00:07:19.980 There is the tabernacle, then later the temple.

00:07:22.980 That's at the center, and then surrounding that is the land, the land of Israel, and then outside of

00:07:29.680 that is the world, and so that's the basic construction, basic layout of the old covenant

00:07:38.560 world, and you have different people in these different spheres, these different zones. In the

00:07:44.620 sanctuary, you had the priests, and the Levites, and the high priest, and outside of that in the

00:07:50.080 land. You had Israel, Hebrews, Jews in the land. And then outside of that, you have the Gentiles, 0.57

00:07:58.380 right? That is the basic building blocks of the old creation world. Well, God destroying 1.00

00:08:05.460 the temple and destroying the land, what does that mean? It means that old creation world is

00:08:12.240 being deconstructed, destroyed as a new world has come in. And so, that's why it's significant

00:08:19.620 because it shows us it's all right in the same theme

00:08:23.840 of this issue, going back to the bigger picture

00:08:28.040 of our questions here, which is, right,

00:08:32.180 today, are there still distinctions

00:08:34.740 between Jew and Gentile, right? 0.99

00:08:37.440 Because those are old creation, old covenant, 0.94

00:08:39.860 old world distinctions.

00:08:42.560 So rightly, you've said, it is the end of the world, right?

00:08:46.980 It is the end, it's the end of that world.

00:08:49.620 that God is breaking down.

00:08:51.400 It's the end of a world.

00:08:52.380 Yeah, but it's not the end of space and time.

00:08:55.900 A new world has come in because of the work of Jesus Christ.

00:09:02.240 Right.

00:09:02.960 So, you think about it in those terms, right?

00:09:07.000 In those terms that the old covenant is coming to an end

00:09:10.760 and the signifier, right, the big giant statement

00:09:15.820 that nobody can miss is that the temple is destroyed. Jerusalem is destroyed. Israel's

00:09:21.740 laid waste. And now... But 90% of evangelicals today have missed this. The whole time you're 0.95

00:09:29.180 talking, I just keep thinking, how would God, as it were, my most pure spirit without body parts

00:09:35.680 and passions, yes and amen. But as it were, how does God feel about 90% of evangelicals attempting

00:09:43.460 to hold on to and even resurrect the world

00:09:48.740 that he intentionally destroyed with finality.

00:09:53.500 That God said, I mean, with virtually the same finality,

00:09:57.660 the same degree of finality as Christ on the cross saying,

00:10:00.560 it is finished, right?

00:10:02.620 That we would never dream as an evangelical Christian

00:10:05.960 of trying to supplement the atoning work of Christ.

00:10:09.700 It is finished, it's paid in full.

00:10:11.660 the sufficiency of Christ and the finality of his atoning work. But so too, in terms of not

00:10:19.020 just God's mercy in Christ's substitutionary death, but God's judgment and the finality of

00:10:25.360 him wrapping up like a garment, the completion and the finishing of this old world and old covenant.

00:10:33.080 And yet here we are 2,000 years removed. And it's not like there's some fringe cultish group,

00:10:39.700 But the majority of evangelicals are looking to God's statement in the same manner that Christ

00:10:47.940 says, it is finished. Christ, who is God, it is finished, speaking of his atoning work. God,

00:10:52.900 through providence and judgment in 8070, says, it is finished, speaking of the old covenant. And yet,

00:11:00.000 we continually attempt to carve out some kind of continuation of this thing that God said is done.

00:11:07.500 Yeah, I think it's a major reason why the evangelical church in our day, I don't think it's the only reason, but I think it's a major one, why we are so weak and inept and corrupted that God is not blessing us when we have this completely erroneous theology.

00:11:32.860 that isn't, and it isn't just merely an error, right?

00:11:36.560 I'm sure that I'm wrong about certain things

00:11:40.120 in my views in scripture.

00:11:41.880 I know you think, well, I could be wrong

00:11:44.000 about all sorts of things, right?

00:11:46.240 We're human, we make errors.

00:11:48.260 Yeah, I think you could be wrong about that.

00:11:49.520 That's right, that's right, right?

00:11:52.460 And if I knew what those errors were, I would-

00:11:54.760 We would change.

00:11:55.740 Correct it to the right thing.

00:11:56.760 I think I'm right about everything.

00:11:58.060 Like everyone thinks they're right about everything.

00:11:59.740 But I know I'm not.

00:12:00.620 But I know I'm not, exactly.

00:12:01.780 I just don't know what those things are.

00:12:03.140 And if I did, I would change it.

00:12:04.320 Yeah, but I think this rises to a different level, right?

00:12:07.140 This rises to the level of, right?

00:12:10.080 God has conclusively declared this is over.

00:12:14.460 This old covenant is done.

00:12:16.220 It's over.

00:12:16.760 It is never, ever coming back.

00:12:19.760 And we want to at least have some aspects of it

00:12:23.860 or preserve it in certain ways

00:12:26.180 because we've been deceived by lies, right?

00:12:30.880 We've been deceived by an errant theology that subverts our churches, our doctrine, and everything else.

00:12:38.780 Yeah, and then that produces, that subversive doctrine produces perverse and corrupt applications.

00:12:48.700 Real world, cultural, political, at every level.

00:12:51.600 Here's where I get angry, though.

00:12:55.240 I'm sympathetic to the plain reading of Scripture and coming away with these wrong interpretations.

00:13:01.540 But what I want the listener to realize, though, is that this is a modern phenomenon.

00:13:07.320 We don't have 2,000 years of the average Christian coming away with this interpretation.

00:13:12.020 We just have the last 150 years of the average Christian coming away with this interpretation.

00:13:17.180 So it's not just like, well, I can see how that could happen to anybody with just a plain reading of Scripture.

00:13:21.500 But it didn't happen to anybody for 2,000 years.

00:13:25.160 It started happening to anybody, and that was a play.

00:13:29.060 And the average evangelical who has fallen for it, I'm not angry at him, but I am absolutely livid, and I believe in a righteous way, at very intentional, nefarious players who inducted and injected with a syringe this poisonous doctrine that has horrible, global, worldwide consequences.

00:13:59.060 where you're talking about a doctrine that at the end of the day,

00:14:01.980 I can draw a straight line from dispensationalism to millions dead.

00:14:08.960 Ideas have consequences.

00:14:10.360 So does theology.

00:14:12.000 Millions, what are you talking about, Joel?

00:14:13.580 I'm talking about war.

00:14:14.840 I'm talking about endless wars in the Middle East.

00:14:18.640 Again and again and again.

00:14:19.860 And now, as we turn our backs even further from the Lord

00:14:23.800 and embrace egalitarianism and feminism and a draft of not just our sons,

00:14:29.060 but potentially our daughters.

00:14:31.460 And so if our girls get drafted into World War III,

00:14:39.520 well, one, I'm going to take my daughters and we're going to go and hide.

00:14:42.320 But if somehow, if people's daughters start ending up forcibly going to World War III for Israel and dying,

00:14:51.660 John Hagee, I mean, he's already going to hell.

00:14:54.740 But dude, the degree of intensity of Dante's in front, I mean, we're talking the lowest levels, the darkest levels of hell.

00:15:04.220 Yeah, it's evil.

00:15:07.320 It is so destructive and there are people like him that are just totally cynical and doing this because it gets them a big church and they bring in lots of money and things like this.

00:15:24.740 And even back 100 years ago, 100 plus years ago to Cyrus Schofield, where, I mean, this is the thing that a lot of people don't know.

00:15:34.960 Well, this is what I'm talking about, Darby, Schofield.

00:15:36.720 Yeah, if you just read about who Cyrus Schofield was and the things that he did, this is a guy who abandoned his family.

00:15:45.280 He was a drunk and alcoholic and takes this teaching from John Nelson Darby and writes a Bible commentary.

00:15:55.820 And then that Bible commentary gets distributed, printed and distributed and marketed to the entire country. 0.95

00:16:01.620 And it wasn't marketed by Christians. 0.62

00:16:03.400 Everyone in America had a Schofield Bible. 0.69

00:16:05.120 Yeah. 0.97

00:16:05.440 It wasn't Christians that were behind doing this saying, oh, here's it. 0.86

00:16:10.020 We've just been reading the Bible wrong for the last, you know, 1800 years. 0.92

00:16:13.260 Right.

00:16:13.960 No, it wasn't.

00:16:14.980 it wasn't the church that pursued who funded it right the the main figure behind it is a man

00:16:21.240 named samuel untermeyer right a wealthy financier and on the east coast and um what would the motive

00:16:28.700 be he was a zionist right right he was a major funder not only of schofield but of the zionist

00:16:34.780 project and backer of it and so he thought if i can get a bunch of christians in a powerful nation

00:16:40.000 to have this kind of exegetical theological interpretation of Scripture

00:16:45.460 where they think that they have a moral obligation under God politically, financially, economically

00:16:50.960 to support my project, my project of getting a particular people in a particular place,

00:17:02.660 then that would be good for me.

00:17:04.040 Yeah, especially because Jews are a tiny minority both at the time in the UK and the United States.

00:17:13.560 And even among Jews, the Jews that wanted, that embraced the Zionist project were an even smaller minority among that population. 0.81

00:17:21.480 Right.

00:17:22.100 And so you know that you need widespread support and you don't have the people to be able to do it.

00:17:29.680 You can't just get your own people on board.

00:17:31.660 Yeah, if 2%, and even that was smaller, of the population say, we want to do this, well, you're not going to accomplish anything.

00:17:39.040 You need widespread support.

00:17:40.760 So, of course, it makes sense that they would fund this and push this. 1.00

00:17:42.380 You need the hegemony, which was Christians. 1.00

00:17:44.700 Yes. 0.91

00:17:45.320 Yeah, evangelical, Protestant Christians. 0.99

00:17:47.840 So, how do you get them to support something that is a false religion, Talmudic Judaism? 0.99

00:17:55.700 Yeah. 0.98

00:17:55.860 So how do you get Christians who are faithful to the Christian triune God, to Christ,

00:18:01.720 to support a group that in terms of their ideology and their religion and their theology

00:18:06.420 rejects and hates Christ?

00:18:08.360 Well, you have to theologically find a way to say that the Bible doesn't just say, you

00:18:14.020 know, children of the light and children of darkness in Christ, not in Christ.

00:18:18.860 But there's actually a third adjacent category.

00:18:21.400 A third group that has to keep hanging out here forever. 0.97

00:18:24.340 And we recognize that they're not Christians. 0.99

00:18:27.080 We're not saying that they're brothers and sisters in the faith.

00:18:30.040 They're not Christians, but they're also still distinct,

00:18:33.640 a separate category from just your average unbeliever. 0.99

00:18:35.880 And God has this special plan for them off to the side while we're doing our thing. 0.98

00:18:40.360 And if we want God to bless us.

00:18:41.980 We've got to bless them.

00:18:42.680 We've got to bless them, right?

00:18:44.060 Because God's going to bless us, but there's a chronological order.

00:18:48.380 God has to first do something special with this group.

00:18:51.480 And then once he's done that special thing with them,

00:18:53.880 he'll do something really special with us.

00:18:56.120 And so then what do you need at bare minimum for that group?

00:18:59.140 Because they got to get blessed first before you can get blessed.

00:19:01.780 Well, one of the things you need for that group is for them to survive.

00:19:04.200 And so you have to ensure their protection, their survival, their sustaining.

00:19:10.540 And one of the things that they probably need if they're refugees and immigrants

00:19:15.860 and spread out a dispersion, well, they need to survive.

00:19:20.200 So they need a defense and individual citizens of other, they don't get a private defense.

00:19:26.580 The only thing that's allowed, the only entity allowed to have a military defense is a nation.

00:19:32.480 Yeah, nation state.

00:19:33.680 They need a nation state.

00:19:34.920 Yeah.

00:19:35.780 We briefly interrupt this programming to humbly offer to you a simple life hack.

00:19:41.280 This series, all things pertaining to Israel, covenant theology, the Judeo-Christian psyop,

00:19:48.700 the whole nine yards, this is available right now exclusively for our Patreon members at

00:19:54.880 patreon.com forward slash right response ministries. Depending where you're at in the series,

00:20:01.580 you may have to wait all the way up until two and a half months to be able to see the whole thing

00:20:05.520 because it's dripping out to the public once a week on Fridays at 8 p.m. Central Time.

00:20:11.280 But this is a nine-part series, and all nine episodes, right now uninterrupted, ad-free,

00:20:18.180 are available exclusively to our Patreon members, again, at patreon.com forward slash

00:20:25.460 Right Response Ministries. In addition to this series with myself and Pastor Andrew Isker

00:20:31.040 on Israel, we also have a whole other series that's 10 parts, ad-free, with myself and Dr.

00:20:38.980 Stephen Wolfe on Christian nationalism. Both of those series are available ad-free today,

00:20:45.420 again, at patreon.com forward slash right response ministries. All right, the clock is running out.

00:20:52.720 You need to go and register now for our Christ is King, How to Defeat Trash World Conference.

00:20:58.740 It's happening the year of our Lord, 2025, April 3rd, 4th, and 5th. That's a Thursday, Friday,

00:21:05.280 and Saturday. And by God's grace, we're able to provide for you an all-star lineup. We've got

00:21:11.380 Steve Dace, Calvin Robinson, Orrin McIntyre, Dr. Stephen Wolfe, Eric Kahn, David Reese, Andrew

00:21:18.220 Isker, John Harris, A.D. Robles, Dan Burkholder, Dusty Devers, Ben Garrett, C.J. Engel, and yours

00:21:25.720 truly, Pastor Joel Webin. Come on out. Join us April 3rd, 4th and 5th, 2025, Thursday through

00:21:33.460 Saturday, go to rightresponseconference.com to register today. Again, that's rightresponseconference.com.

00:21:42.460 It's very simple. When you think of the logic, it's like, oh, that wasn't exegesis. That was

00:21:48.360 eisegesis. Yeah, it was a propaganda effort with biblical eisegesis attached to it. 0.91

00:21:57.380 And for the listener, exegesis just means to read the Word of God and read out of the Scripture

00:22:02.360 what God actually means.

00:22:04.760 Eisegesis is to place into the scripture your own meaning.

00:22:09.280 Yeah, so it's this post hoc justification

00:22:12.140 for this entire project.

00:22:15.640 Right.

00:22:16.000 That's what it was.

00:22:18.000 And like you begin to see that

00:22:19.720 and you think about these things.

00:22:20.960 And I think about all of the wonderful,

00:22:26.900 faithful Christian folks

00:22:28.220 that this is just the air they've breathed,

00:22:31.020 the water they swam in for their entire lifetime.

00:22:33.420 Everybody they've known that's a Christian thought this.

00:22:35.900 They're not nefarious.

00:22:37.160 No, not at all.

00:22:37.880 There's a difference.

00:22:38.740 And there is a difference.

00:22:39.640 Being deceived, we're not saying that there's no moral responsibility.

00:22:42.720 You have a responsibility in being deceived.

00:22:44.520 Yeah, but it's a question of when you know better and you still do it.

00:22:48.140 The thing is, we're not saying if you're deceived, therefore you're innocent.

00:22:52.940 Sins committed in ignorance.

00:22:54.840 I mean, you see even in the Old Covenant, 0.88

00:22:56.420 there were offerings to be made for the sins that were unknown,

00:22:59.060 the sins you committed without even knowing.

00:23:00.880 But there are degrees of sin.

00:23:04.300 You know, as a quick little sidebar, Christian myth busters, right?

00:23:08.560 Things that the Bible doesn't ever say. 0.66

00:23:10.520 All sin is equal.

00:23:12.020 No, that's a misnomer.

00:23:14.060 All sin is equal insofar that a big sin or a little sin, apart from the atoning work of Christ alone,

00:23:19.640 which is received by grace alone, through faith alone, in Him alone, apart from that,

00:23:24.440 then all sin, big or small, is equal in its ability to separate you from the presence of

00:23:30.040 God for eternity. And to deserve the wrath of God forever. But even in God's wrath,

00:23:36.560 so let's say it's the one who goes to hell, Jesus talks about to one will be given a light beating,

00:23:43.180 to another would be given a severe beating. Hierarchy is built into the fabric of the

00:23:51.260 world that God has made. And not only do we have hierarchy here, but there is a hierarchy in heaven.

00:23:55.980 And in a weird sort of events, we could actually biblically argue there is a hierarchy of hell,

00:24:03.060 a hierarchy of punishment, degrees of eternal punishment based off of degrees of sin. And so,

00:24:10.940 those who are deceived by dispensationalism, they have our compassion and sympathy because,

00:24:15.700 not because they're innocent. There is a moral culpability in being deceived. But that culpability,

00:24:22.140 although sin, although sin, it is a far less degree of sin than the nefarious, sinister,

00:24:29.580 intentional deceiver is different than the one who is deceived.

00:24:33.880 Absolutely. And I think that people who are trying to recover traditional Protestant 0.64

00:24:45.300 doctrine. And there's all sorts of different views on Matthew 24 and on eschatology and

00:24:51.660 things like that. But the dispensational view is a particularly pernicious one and false one

00:25:01.940 that subverts the Christian religion, destroys it from the inside out. And in terms of moral

00:25:10.160 culpability, right? If people are telling you, hey, this is what Christians believed in the past 0.99

00:25:15.140 you know faithful godly christians here's one thing they believed here are other things

00:25:18.480 right whether you know historic premillennialism amillennialism postmillennialism different views

00:25:24.520 that way right those i think are doctrinally within the pale of orthodoxy um and dispensationalism is

00:25:33.580 this novel new thing that's just on the on the outside right it's it's new and it's made up and

00:25:38.780 it's what is it made up for is to justify zionism right dispensationalism was the theological

00:25:44.620 framework with the sole intent of setting the stage for Zionism.

00:25:50.960 Yeah. 0.91

00:25:51.480 And so if you have people now, right?

00:25:53.840 Now we have the internet.

00:25:55.060 We have the ability to undo the propaganda regime over the last 100 years, or at least

00:26:02.640 push back against it.

00:26:04.120 And if you're hearing this for the first time, you should at least ask yourself, right?

00:26:10.900 Well, what if everybody I've been around my entire life is wrong?

00:26:14.620 Because in reality, we're the tiny minority in the history of the church that believes this.

00:26:20.320 The vast majority did not believe this at all.

00:26:23.380 Did not believe dispensationalism.

00:26:25.220 And you should ask us, why?

00:26:28.620 Did we just finally just start to read the Bible correctly for the first time?

00:26:32.500 Or are we deceived?

00:26:34.020 Should I give this a hearing or not?

00:26:36.040 That's the thing that people always say.

00:26:39.200 So whether it's patriarchy, people, you know, like,

00:26:42.000 I was like, well, I think that, you know, I'm a head covering guy, you know, or the husband, you know, male headship in the home and in the state, not just the home of the church, but even in the state and these different spheres of human society.

00:26:58.460 And, you know, people say like, don't you, Joel, don't you ever at least second guess yourself and start to think that you would be wrong because you're in such a sliver of a minority?

00:27:10.040 minority and what it's funny because the irony is i always say well the reason i hold the position

00:27:15.080 i do is precisely for that reason i don't want to be in the tiny minority and what you don't

00:27:20.460 realize is that i'm in the minority for the last 15 minutes you are in the minority over the last

00:27:26.920 2 000 years for all the time read anybody before the 1500s no uh anybody before 1960 yeah yeah

00:27:35.260 We're talking very recently, read anybody.

00:27:37.620 Read Herman Bavink.

00:27:38.460 Yeah, and they talk about, read them on roles of men and women.

00:27:43.920 Read them on their political theology.

00:27:46.660 Read them on the state legislating, not only the second table of law,

00:27:51.400 how we should love our neighbor, but also the first table of law.

00:27:55.140 Read not just what was happening under Constantine, you know, in the 400s or whatever.

00:28:03.460 Read what was happening in these United States just 200 years ago. 0.60

00:28:09.180 Just 200 years ago, Sabbath laws. 0.79

00:28:11.800 And honestly, not just 200 years ago.

00:28:13.780 In Texas right now, you still can't buy liquor on Sunday until, what is it?

00:28:18.640 I think it's like 1 p.m. or something like that.

00:28:20.420 Something like that, yeah.

00:28:21.040 Like, well, why?

00:28:22.580 Like, I've got, you know, a friend who owns a butcher shop and it's also a restaurant, a barbecue restaurant.

00:28:29.540 And they open every single day at like, I think it's 9 or 10 a.m., except for Sunday.

00:28:36.080 They open after afternoon.

00:28:39.100 Why?

00:28:39.940 Because Sunday is church. 0.97

00:28:41.700 That is a hangover of a blue law, a Sabbath law.

00:28:44.660 So we're not, we are not the minority.

00:28:48.960 The majority of people today are the minority if you simply pan out and look at history as a whole.

00:28:54.880 And you don't even have to pan out that far.

00:28:56.920 that's my point is you know guys are like christian nationalism will never happen well here's the

00:29:01.120 deal it has happened before and it has happened here yeah yeah not somewhere else it will never

00:29:08.900 like as if it's this not that long ago but just recently this new radical thing that nobody ever

00:29:13.800 thought of before right it's like no this was the baseline of what christians believe so people say

00:29:17.960 you know like why are you guys so confident you know with the videos that you record or on twitter

00:29:22.680 or whatever, like guys like you and Andrew and A.D. or John Harris, you know, or why are you guys,

00:29:28.900 you know, the Ogden boys, why are you guys, you're so confident. We're so confident because

00:29:33.520 this is what Christians have believed forever. Yeah. Until very recent. The real question should

00:29:39.040 be, why are you, I support the current thing with your Ukraine flag, you know, an Israel flag in

00:29:46.540 your bio. We're in a mask. Why are you so confident when you stand on the rich tradition that stretches

00:29:53.160 back for 15 minutes? Why are you confident? Yeah. Yeah, it shouldn't be. And so, yeah,

00:29:59.480 to that end, so I think about just the masses of millions of decent, godly, faithful Christians

00:30:07.700 that have been lied to. And the pressure culturally, socially, all around them is,

00:30:16.140 If you're going to a normal evangelical church as exists today and you hear this video and you listen to us and you're like,

00:30:25.320 I think that Andrew, he's got a good point.

00:30:27.720 Joel's got a good point about this viewing Matthew 24 and their views of end times and eschatology and you buy it.

00:30:38.460 Well, what's going to happen is everybody all around you, everybody you go to Bible study with, all your friends at church and everything,

00:30:44.640 they're going to think you're nuts, right?

00:30:46.620 So you can see how it's self-reinforcing. 0.58

00:30:48.400 Once an idea has pervaded, right?

00:30:50.660 Even a false idea has pervaded everything, right?

00:30:53.140 You get pushback from everyone all around you.

00:30:55.500 They're going to think that God is going to curse you

00:30:57.780 because, well, you're not blessing Israel.

00:31:00.600 Right, those who curse Israel will be cursed. 0.89

00:31:01.800 So God's going to curse you. 0.98

00:31:02.940 Right.

00:31:03.440 And it's like, no, no, we, Jesus Christ is the Israel.

00:31:07.860 You should be blessing him and his people, right?

00:31:10.220 Which are those who are united to him in faith, right?

00:31:13.140 Not that have the same blood as him.

00:31:17.980 Allegedly.

00:31:18.700 Well, maybe, I think so.

00:31:20.520 Maybe, maybe not.

00:31:21.360 Yeah, we'll maybe get to that later.

00:31:23.300 But I look at it that way, right?

00:31:27.180 That there's so many people.

00:31:28.300 But the white pill, the encouraging thing is that younger generations are less susceptible to this, right?

00:31:39.260 They see, I think some of it is that they just see what a mess evangelicalism is across the board on so many things, how weak it is on marriage and family, on roles between men and women, on politics and things like that.

00:31:55.740 I mean, especially, right, you look at it, like all of the, you know, all the sweet, gentle, you know, normie, boomer, evangelical people that I love.

00:32:04.040 We love.

00:32:04.660 Right.

00:32:05.360 They go to whatever evangelical church typically, and they love Donald Trump.

00:32:12.340 They vote for him.

00:32:12.980 They think he's the greatest, the best, and they're proud to vote for him.

00:32:16.800 But then their pastors are saying, well, he's a bad guy, right?

00:32:20.900 That's not a very Christian thing to do to support that.

00:32:23.100 You need to be for totally open borders.

00:32:26.060 That's what David French thinks and all the guys I look up to.

00:32:30.080 So you have that disconnect there already.

00:32:32.660 So I look at it and I think, well, let's go one step.

00:32:36.040 You're going to disagree with your pastor and the evangelical mainstream.

00:32:40.380 You recognize that your pastor is bought and paid for when it comes to politics.

00:32:45.240 Why not his theology?

00:32:48.180 Particularly on this issue.

00:32:49.860 On this issue.

00:32:51.020 Should you trust that?

00:32:53.100 There's all these huge problems.

00:32:54.680 The young people, I think, get this.

00:32:56.060 Younger people are getting this much more.

00:32:58.340 Right, and they get it. 0.99

00:32:59.000 So you gave one reason,

00:33:00.380 that the upcoming generation sees the psyop

00:33:04.220 with much more clarity,

00:33:06.480 in part because they see the fruit of the psyop.

00:33:10.340 They're young enough to where they're coming into the world

00:33:13.460 where the damage has already been done.

00:33:16.380 And so they're able to look at the rotten fruit

00:33:18.360 hanging from the vine and say, that's a bad vine.

00:33:21.380 That's one reason why they're able to see it.

00:33:23.560 Another reason why they're able to see it,

00:33:25.060 and this is an attempt to obey the fifth commandment

00:33:28.020 and honoring our fathers and our mothers,

00:33:30.740 is that our fathers and mothers did not have the resources

00:33:35.080 or the access to the resources that we have today.

00:33:39.920 And what I mean by that is it was, 0.72

00:33:42.700 the boomers are the most psyoped generation, 0.75

00:33:46.060 arguably of all of human history, 0.51

00:33:47.460 in part because you had mass means of information, right?

00:33:55.260 So think of 500 years ago in the Gutenberg printing press.

00:33:58.800 Well, then all of a sudden now you have television, cable news, the internet.

00:34:04.760 You have the New York Times, these kinds of things.

00:34:07.420 So you have Walter Cronkite.

00:34:08.740 You have mass means of communication and yet at the same time,

00:34:13.460 so the communication gets to everyone instantly.

00:34:16.120 And yet, you only have really one choice of what stream of communication.

00:34:25.320 Everyone, there's like how many channels on TV?

00:34:28.200 Three.

00:34:28.940 How many news stations?

00:34:30.760 Two or three.

00:34:32.440 How many newspapers do I have to choose?

00:34:35.140 I don't have where I can go online and have, well, I could read the New York Times, but I could also read American Reformer.

00:34:43.660 Like, no, there's none of that.

00:34:45.780 It's just, I get the daily news.

00:34:47.700 And so you have mass means of communication, but you only have one channel.

00:34:53.260 Well, I think like historically too.

00:34:55.160 And that's just what you believe.

00:34:56.100 An issue for them is in the middle of the 20th century, all of the mainline churches that most of the population,

00:35:05.540 this is the thing I don't think we focus on enough, is the majority of the population went to a Protestant mainline church before the 1940s.

00:35:15.680 And what was going on in the 20s, 30s, and 40s in these churches

00:35:19.180 is they were in the midst of massive apostasy.

00:35:22.460 They're denying the analogy of scripture.

00:35:24.680 They're denying the virgin birth, denying the deity of Christ, 0.93

00:35:27.260 all of these things, then ordaining women and just totally subverting everything. 0.98

00:35:33.060 And so what happened when the boomers came of age in the 60s, 0.99

00:35:37.680 well, even before the 50s, 60s, 70s, right? 0.99

00:35:40.980 You have this mass exodus of Christians out of the main lines

00:35:44.440 into evangelicalism.

00:35:46.480 What is evangelicalism informed by?

00:35:49.000 What's informed by this theology, right?

00:35:52.440 So it's like the Walter Cronkite thing

00:35:54.220 where this is the only channel available, right?

00:35:56.500 The only tradition that exists in the country

00:36:02.020 that's still faithful to the Bible,

00:36:04.020 that still believes the Bible is the word of God,

00:36:06.280 still believes that Christ is God.

00:36:07.880 Right, and also happens to be dispensational.

00:36:10.220 Yeah, that's the only place they could go.

00:36:11.380 And again, that's back to, you know,

00:36:13.520 the oscillating back and forth between the righteous indignation versus the sympathy.

00:36:17.460 Yeah, yeah.

00:36:18.360 Well, you know—

00:36:19.140 I mean, I'm mostly sympathy.

00:36:20.720 Right.

00:36:21.020 I mostly am, yeah.

00:36:22.460 I'm mostly sympathy, too, again, for those deceived.

00:36:25.500 Yeah.

00:36:25.960 I am righteous indignation in a—

00:36:28.920 For the deceivers.

00:36:29.360 Like David says, you know, do I not hate your enemies, O Lord, with a perfect hatred?

00:36:33.780 I feel a perfect hatred towards the deceivers, not the deceived.

00:36:38.280 But that being said, my point is part of the reason—

00:36:41.440 So when you leave the mainline denominations and evangelicalism begins to get its momentum,

00:36:48.840 you got a lot of kind of blue-collar churches and some blue-collar pastors.

00:36:56.120 And one of the bulwarks that's erected to be kind of a last line of defense against progressivism,

00:37:06.480 against the liberalism against the you know selling out on the narrative of scripture

00:37:11.980 or you know distinctions between men and women or these kinds of things um is a literal

00:37:18.540 hermeneutic so like john mccarthur for instance is a great example because i respect him i honor

00:37:26.460 him and on certain issues like this one i vehemently disagree with him yeah um but john

00:37:32.040 MacArthur, to steel man John MacArthur, and he deserves steel manning because he's done a lot

00:37:36.500 of good. So to steel man John MacArthur, I really think that this is probably his incentive,

00:37:42.260 his heart, his motive, is John MacArthur, who is, you know, he's old. He was, so the things we're

00:37:49.180 describing, he was alive for a lot of them. He's not even, he's silent generation. He's not even,

00:37:53.400 he's older than a boomer. Exactly. So he's watching all these things go down. He's coming

00:37:57.620 into his pastoral ministry at around this time

00:38:01.520 as people are leaving the mainline denominations

00:38:03.360 and everything that we're describing.

00:38:04.940 Well, John MacArthur is sitting there watching.

00:38:08.280 He's like, people are abandoning traditional marriage

00:38:13.160 and deciding that it's permissible,

00:38:15.900 that the Bible doesn't actually say

00:38:17.160 that homosexuality is a sin.

00:38:18.840 They're abandoning inerrancy of scripture. 1.00

00:38:20.700 They're abandoning the virgin birth,

00:38:22.540 the bodily resurrection, all these things.

00:38:25.320 And so what does he do?

00:38:26.960 He says, we need to take the Bible literally.

00:38:31.420 And so what does he end up doing for the next 50 plus years of his ministry?

00:38:35.480 He defends traditional marriage. 0.82

00:38:37.020 He defends the inerrancy of Scripture. 0.87

00:38:38.640 He defends male pastors.

00:38:41.340 He defends all these things.

00:38:43.620 And he also, with that same literal hermeneutic, he's a dispensationalist.

00:38:48.120 Defends this reading of Revelation, Matthew 24, and so forth.

00:38:52.240 And so I get it.

00:38:53.260 No, I do too.

00:38:54.160 And that's the problem is that the best people with the best instincts, they just want to believe what the Bible says.

00:39:06.860 They just want to believe what God is telling us in the scriptures.

00:39:11.540 And those are the guys that are apparently faithful, and they were on all of those things.

00:39:18.740 And so I think that's why God blessed evangelicalism, despite the errant theology.

00:39:26.700 Despite their dispensationalism, not because of it.

00:39:28.920 But overall, the church is in a rough place because of it, especially today, that the long-term trajectory is worse and worse and worse because if you grow up your entire life thinking and you're told it every single Sunday,

00:39:47.240 You're told that every time you go to Bible study that Jesus is coming back soon.

00:39:52.060 The world is about to end, right? 0.81

00:39:54.380 Well, Israel is now in the land of 1948, so we got maybe 40 years left. 0.85

00:40:00.720 This is why he's coming back in 1988, which is almost 40 years ago. 0.58

00:40:04.520 And people are like, well, actually, no, it's 80 years, so it's going to be 2028.

00:40:08.220 And then 2028 will come and pass.

00:40:10.500 And so I think a lot of people in our generation, right, we grew up with this and being told this.

00:40:16.700 And 30 years go by, and it's like, well, he still hasn't come back yet.

00:40:22.600 Maybe there's some other reading of Scripture that we should be pursuing.

00:40:28.320 Maybe we've gotten it wrong.

00:40:29.980 And not a new one, but an old one.

00:40:32.900 And that's one of the things I wanted to mention just real briefly is, again,

00:40:37.460 the sympathy towards the guy who says, look, there's an onslaught from liberal theologians

00:40:42.780 who are trying to neuter the scripture

00:40:47.340 so that they can have-

00:40:48.860 Yeah, nothing in the Bible is literal. 1.00

00:40:50.440 Right, so that they can have gay sex 0.99

00:40:52.560 and all these other things. 1.00

00:40:55.320 And we're not gonna tolerate that.

00:40:57.040 We're gonna take God at his word.

00:40:59.080 If the Bible says it, I believe it.

00:41:00.820 I got the bumper sticker

00:41:01.800 and I'm just gonna read the Bible literally. 0.87

00:41:03.780 That instinct is in general in the right direction.

00:41:07.520 Yeah.

00:41:07.660 Absolutely, we applaud it.

00:41:08.840 But what I wanna say is that

00:41:10.060 what we should account for though,

00:41:12.100 Right? So, if we're just looking at modern church history in the last 80 years or so, 100 years, then yeah, those are your two options. Guys who aren't dispensationalist but are gay and then guys who are dispensationalist but defend traditional marriage. I'm going to go to the dispensationalist church every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

00:41:33.900 Yeah, if you've got the Rainbow Flag Church and the Dispy Church in town. 0.98

00:41:39.180 And John MacArthur's church. 1.00

00:41:39.880 I'm going to John MacArthur's church every time the doors are open.

00:41:43.420 But what I'm trying to say is that that's only when you look at modern American church history.

00:41:48.620 But if you pen out and you look at church history for centuries, over a thousand years, up until very recently, you don't find those two options.

00:41:57.980 what you find is zero dispensationalists who read the Bible analogically or typologically,

00:42:05.740 recognizing that there are types and shadows, symbols, when we get to books like Revelation

00:42:11.940 or things in Daniel or Matthew 24, and they're able to read it with this typological,

00:42:17.940 Christological hermeneutic, and guess what? Those analogical guys who see metaphor and symbolism

00:42:25.320 in the Bible are also strong on marriage, strong on inerrancy, the virgin birth. They did not view

00:42:32.800 it as this kind of, you know, between a rock and a hard place. Yeah, they didn't view the Bible as

00:42:39.440 this grab bag that can mean anything you want when they're talking about symbolism and typology and

00:42:43.780 so forth. They were typological in their hermeneutic, but not relativist. No, no. And it's

00:42:49.700 like you take the Bible the way it obviously is meant to be taken. And remembering that the Bible

00:42:56.980 is a big book. In fact, it's a collection of 66 books written by 40 human authors over the span

00:43:03.100 of 1,500 years. And what do I mean by that? Well, I mean that you don't read the Bible one way,

00:43:09.200 you read the Bible God's way. And different portions of the scripture are written by the

00:43:13.940 human authors and under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit in different ways. So you read the

00:43:17.980 Psalms and Job and Ecclesiastes, for instance, as poetry literature. And that means that it

00:43:25.020 doesn't say anything true. No. Of course it says something true, but it says something true in the

00:43:29.860 way that poetry communicates truth. Poetry does not always say something as literal truth. So my

00:43:35.860 point is this. There is a way of reading the scripture and knowing that all scripture speaks

00:43:41.580 truly, but not all Scripture speaks literally truly. Some of it does, some of it doesn't.

00:43:48.640 Some of it is historic truth, literal truth, physical truth, metaphorical, spiritual truth.

00:43:54.260 It's all truth, but we have to understand what portions of Scripture am I reading? Am I reading

00:43:59.740 a historical narrative in the book of Joshua or Ezra or Nehemiah? Or am I reading a Pauline epistle,

00:44:05.400 right? An apostolic writing to the church in Ephesus, or am I reading Ecclesiastes or Song

00:44:11.660 of Solomon and poetic literature? Yeah, and even in the historical literature, which I believe is

00:44:20.200 true literal accounts of things that took place. Because it's history. That God is the author of

00:44:26.980 history, and so he can design a story in such a way that it is both history, true literal history

00:44:32.700 that takes place and metaphor, right?

00:44:35.600 And this, like having this typological understanding

00:44:38.060 of the scriptures.

00:44:38.480 Like this real history that took place

00:44:39.460 also serves as a type and a shadow of greater things.

00:44:43.040 That there are patterns and there are types

00:44:45.360 that match up with other parts of scripture

00:44:47.360 where you're supposed to think,

00:44:48.980 oh, this is like that other thing in scripture, right?

00:44:52.980 That is good and true because what do liberals

00:44:55.760 who hate God and hate the Bible,

00:44:57.660 when they read scripture,

00:44:59.260 they see the patterns and the typology

00:45:01.820 and the metaphor and everything in literal history

00:45:04.640 and say, well, see, this didn't just, this didn't happen.

00:45:08.420 This is just symbolism.

00:45:10.600 Like, so like the book of Jonah, for example,

00:45:12.400 that didn't happen, right?

00:45:13.900 Because that whale, right?

00:45:15.800 That whale, and I think this is true, right?

00:45:18.740 The great fish that swallows up Jonah. 0.99

00:45:21.040 Well, Jonah is Israel. 0.97

00:45:22.260 The great fish is Assyria, right? 1.00

00:45:24.540 That's, and I'm like, yeah, that's true. 0.83

00:45:27.100 And it literally happened.

00:45:29.180 And a fish swallowed Jonah.

00:45:30.300 It literally happened, right?

00:45:31.820 And so it inoculates good, strong, solid Christians from the assault of liberalism because they, in a sense, they're right about those things, right?

00:45:43.460 They're right that there are patterns, there are literary devices that are used in scripture, there's poetic things used in the literal parts of scripture.

00:45:51.860 Then they use that to attack the fact that it happened in history.

00:45:57.000 And we could say we can have our cake and eat it too.

00:45:59.720 it did happen and there's all of this rich symbolism there as well like you look at like

00:46:05.520 the book of judges there are all these people that get crushed by head wounds right uh and you

00:46:12.120 think well why does that happen right well obviously you know the liberal says obviously

00:46:15.760 it was fake because this is a call back to genesis 3 and so whoever wrote this is is making it all

00:46:22.400 up to make it seem like this like like jail driving the tent peg through sisera or dropping

00:46:26.820 the stone, right? So it's all made up. And I'm like, no, it is all made up by God, right? Who

00:46:34.420 made up history. It actually happened and God ordained it because it also, it literally happened

00:46:40.100 and it points towards something that he's doing. And he's a good writer. And this redemptive story

00:46:44.780 and even the fact that it was a woman, a woman drops a stone, a stone, a rock. And a woman drives 0.95

00:46:50.480 the tent peg through his head. So what is this woman? Well, the seed of the woman would crush 0.96

00:46:55.680 the serpent's head and the seed of the woman the serpent crusher would also be the stone that the

00:47:01.880 builders rejected the stone which you fall upon the stone and you'll be shattered but if the stone

00:47:07.200 falls upon you you'll be crushed it's beautiful yeah it's beautiful and the stone comes from a

00:47:11.700 woman comes from it's the seed of the woman yeah that's yeah the liberal is like oh well see it's

00:47:17.020 so beautiful it can't be true can't really have happened and we could say yes it literally did

00:47:21.860 happen so to land the plane for this episode yeah this is this is the takeaway that i would have and

00:47:25.940 then i'll give it to you if you have any final thoughts um but one of the great defenses that

00:47:31.160 we need to shore up against things like zionism and dispensationalism and all these things

00:47:36.280 is a solid biblical hermeneutic how to read the scripture and for me right this doesn't mean you

00:47:43.380 aren't sitting here and saying you know we we sat in a padded room by ourselves and just thought

00:47:49.620 and with our great minds came to these conclusions.

00:47:52.600 No, no, the reason why you and I

00:47:54.660 have been able to interpret the scripture

00:47:57.040 as well as we have, and not perfectly,

00:48:00.380 but as well as we have,

00:48:01.940 is because one of the great ways to interpret scripture

00:48:04.460 is first, interpret scripture with scripture.

00:48:06.500 But then secondly, interpret scripture with the church.

00:48:11.020 And I know that sounds crazy as a Protestant.

00:48:14.020 I'm not saying that tradition

00:48:15.440 is on the same level of authority as the scripture.

00:48:18.700 No, it's a lesser authority, but sola scriptura does not mean that Scripture is the only authority.

00:48:24.140 It means that Scripture is the only infallible authority and the highest authority.

00:48:29.120 But the church and church history and tradition is an authority.

00:48:34.100 Absolutely.

00:48:34.880 And the only reason why you and I have learned to read Scripture as well as we have is because we don't read it alone.

00:48:41.500 We read Scripture with Bavink.

00:48:43.460 We read it with Calvin.

00:48:44.720 We read it with Luther.

00:48:45.840 We read it with Augustine, with Athanasius, and as we've read scripture alongside this

00:48:53.420 great cloud of witnesses, we've come to better conclusions.

00:48:58.980 And here's the beauty, not just so that we can stay there, because there is something

00:49:02.120 to be said for Semper Reformanda to continually be reformed, but you don't take the ball further

00:49:09.080 down the field without first standing on the shoulder of giants.

00:49:13.840 And what we've done, especially Protestants that has been so sad to watch, is that with each generation, we've decided instead of taking the ball further and standing on the shoulders of the giants who came before us, we've decided in a spirit of what I believe ultimately is rebellious towards our fathers and a breaking of the fifth commandment, we've decided, well, can we really trust our fathers and the work that they've done? 0.69

00:49:36.760 I think that we should start over from square one. 0.97

00:49:39.760 So I'm going to give my entire life to go back to the original manuscripts

00:49:44.400 and learn Hebrew and Greek and Aramaic,

00:49:48.520 and I'm going to retranslate the whole Bible.

00:49:50.600 And when I finish my 80 years of living, you know what my conclusion was? 0.92

00:49:54.680 KJV was great.

00:49:56.760 Also, NKGV was great.

00:49:59.020 ESV was pretty good.

00:50:01.240 NASB was pretty good.

00:50:02.540 I could have actually just read the Bible.

00:50:05.300 But I gave my life in suspicion of my father's.

00:50:11.920 And I wasted my life.

00:50:15.000 All right.

00:50:15.560 So learn how to read the scripture well.

00:50:17.480 And one of the ways to do it is to read it with those saints of old who were tried and true.

00:50:24.340 And in the providence of God, God used to do a lot of theological heavy lifting.

00:50:29.520 That is a blessing to the church and shouldn't be dismissed.

00:50:32.940 Yeah.

00:50:32.980 So thanks for tuning in.

The NXR Podcast - February 08, 2025

THE FRIDAY SPECIAL - Dispensationalism Has Had Terrible Consequences

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript