The NXR Podcast - THE FRIDAY SPECIAL - Hollow Earth ｜ The Last Living Dragons & Primary Water w Haunted Cosmos

00:00:00.000 Even the great C.S. Lewis was powerfully captivated by the mysterious legends of Hollow Earth.

00:00:09.080 There is one peculiar passage from the Silver Chair of the Chronicles of Narnia

00:00:13.980 where Lewis provides us with a small glimpse into Bysm,

00:00:18.340 a secret world which lies deep within the Earth.

00:00:22.440 Are there other lands still lower down? asked Eustace.

00:00:26.580 Oh yes, Your Honor, said Golg. 1.00

00:00:29.560 Lovely places, what we call the land of bism. 1.00

00:00:32.740 This country where we are now, the witch's country, is what we call the shallow lands. 0.99

00:00:37.600 It's a good deal too near the surface to suit us. 0.58

00:00:40.360 Ah, you might almost as well be living outside, on the surface itself.

00:00:45.840 Down there, said Golg, I could show you real gold, real silver, real diamonds.

00:00:52.240 Bosh, said Jill rudely, as if we didn't know that we're below the deepest mines even here.

00:00:57.760 Yes, said Golg.

00:00:59.460 I've heard of those little scratches in the crust that you top dwellers call mines.

00:01:04.000 But that's where you get dead gold, dead silver, dead gems.

00:01:08.920 Down in Bism we have Alive and Growing.

00:01:12.640 There I'll pick up bunches of rubies that you can eat and squeeze you a cup of diamond juice. 0.84

00:01:18.580 You won't care much about fingering the cold, dead treasures of your shallow mines 1.00

00:01:24.020 after you have tasted the live ones of Bism. 1.00

00:01:27.080 My father went to the world's end, said Rillian thoughtfully.

00:01:30.760 It must be a marvelous thing if his son went to the bottom of the world.

00:01:39.760 Here we are, C.S. Lewis.

00:01:41.700 Absolutely.

00:01:42.300 I mean, some would say that this is fantastical in fiction,

00:01:44.600 but we know that he's writing really just history.

00:01:47.140 It's just nonfiction.

00:01:47.900 It's nonfiction.

00:01:48.900 It's nonfiction.

00:01:48.920 It's bism is real.

00:01:49.680 Yeah, it's bism is real.

00:01:50.980 C.S. Lewis is giving us an eyewitness account.

00:01:53.140 We can only assume.

00:01:54.100 He's just choosing to use characters.

00:01:56.020 That's a safe assumption to be made.

00:01:58.020 The point is this, C.S. Lewis, Hollow Earth, fan.

00:02:01.840 At least a fan.

00:02:03.660 And that's what we want to start with.

00:02:05.280 So I'm just going to lay out a bit of an outline for this episode,

00:02:08.940 Hollow Earth theory, its main components, its theory, its history,

00:02:13.260 some of the guys who are involved.

00:02:14.280 After that, we want to talk about a spiritual reality

00:02:16.780 that we think has physical components as well,

00:02:19.360 which would be a Hollow Earth applied to the biblical narrative of Sheol,

00:02:22.920 the realm of the dead, not hell.

00:02:24.320 We'll draw some distinctions, but Sheol, the realm of the dead with different places, a place of

00:02:29.040 paradise, Abraham's bosom, those kinds of things. So we'll move from hollow earth to Sheol, then from

00:02:34.020 Sheol and hollow earth, getting the concept of primary water theory that a lot of people are

00:02:39.120 probably unfamiliar with, but is all but fact at this point. It has a major growing consensus of

00:02:47.560 notable scientists, and it gets into even the character of God. Is God capricious? Is he

00:02:53.480 sinister? Did he command us to be fruitful, multiply, knowing that obedience to that command

00:02:58.740 would bring about our own demise, that we would have the overpopulation myth? No, it's not a

00:03:05.540 zero-sum game. The pie can grow, that water is not a finite, a recycled resource, but a renewable

00:03:11.820 and infinite. It's constantly being produced, so primary water theory. And then in terms of

00:03:16.560 applications, applying that to the beautification of the earth, eradicating deserts, getting rid of

00:03:21.980 the Sahara, making it a garden, a city, a paradise, talking about not just the location. We're going

00:03:28.120 to talk about the location, the lost city of Atlantis, but not just the location, but the

00:03:32.860 very real possible restoration of Atlantis, bringing it back to its redeemed greater glory

00:03:41.920 in human history, not just when Jesus returns,

00:03:44.700 but progressively leading up to it.

00:03:46.520 So restoration of earth,

00:03:48.100 the discovery and restoration of Atlantis,

00:03:51.420 and then applying primary water theory

00:03:53.820 and hollow earth theory to other places like Mars

00:03:56.960 with polar ice caps, proof of water,

00:03:59.480 underground oceans that scientists

00:04:01.020 are already speculating about.

00:04:03.200 Could Mars become a hospitable place,

00:04:08.880 habitable place, hospitable place to human life, vegetation, these kinds of things.

00:04:15.020 And then lastly, primary water theory, hollow earth, shield, these components as it pertains

00:04:20.760 to elongated human lifespans, right?

00:04:24.100 Not just that we're the lesser sons of former sires that lived for 900 years, but that Isaiah

00:04:30.680 65 could actually be fulfilled in human history before the final physical return of Christ.

00:04:36.620 Isaiah 65, that says the youth shall die at 100.

00:04:40.180 Right now, lifespans have already been increased

00:04:42.680 to the point if somebody dies at 45

00:04:44.300 and it was a few hundred years ago,

00:04:46.180 we'd say they lived a full life.

00:04:47.600 If somebody dies at 45 today, we say he was just a kid.

00:04:50.960 But Isaiah 65 says that the youth shall die at 100,

00:04:55.300 presupposing or at least implying

00:04:56.960 that you could have 400, 500,

00:04:59.060 maybe even back to 900 year lifespans.

00:05:01.640 What if Christ is so potent in his victory

00:05:05.680 that he comes to make his blessings flow

00:05:08.000 as far as the curse is found

00:05:09.440 and that we actually hit a thousand year,

00:05:13.120 an even greater lifespan to say that the second Adam

00:05:16.600 and his victory dwarfs the first Adam 0.69

00:05:20.380 in his sin and failure.

00:05:22.700 So we're gonna be talking about hollow earth theory,

00:05:25.380 Sheol, primary water, Atlantis, Mars being cultivated

00:05:29.680 and the lost fountain of youth.

00:05:32.720 Here we go.

00:05:33.560 No small task.

00:05:34.260 How much time do we have, Joel?

00:05:36.100 We're going to give it our very best.

00:05:38.300 It may end up being a two-parter, we'll see.

00:05:40.260 But let's start with the first thing on the list.

00:05:43.640 What is hollow earth theory?

00:05:44.960 Who are some of the components?

00:05:45.920 Why does it matter?

00:05:47.180 So the first main character to promote this idea of hollow earth,

00:05:51.320 which basically just says that the outer surface that we live on,

00:05:55.580 in the most extreme case, is a shell.

00:05:57.780 And inside of that shell, there are subsequent concentric spheres

00:06:02.360 or other shells that kind of revolve around each other.

00:06:05.360 And one of them might be very hot and very bright.

00:06:08.220 Some of them might be filled with oceans.

00:06:10.040 And there may even be living creatures or plants.

00:06:13.140 Entire lands, entire other worlds within our own.

00:06:16.480 That's the most extreme,

00:06:18.720 the version that we're all familiar with

00:06:20.120 from sci-fi works like Journey to the Center of the Earth.

00:06:23.220 King Kong, Godzilla.

00:06:24.540 Yeah, King Kong, Godzilla.

00:06:25.100 But the first man to promote this idea seriously

00:06:28.880 was Edmund Hillary.

00:06:31.560 No.

00:06:31.660 Edmund Hillary.

00:06:32.780 Actually, Haley.

00:06:34.100 If it was Edmund Hillary,

00:06:35.920 we could only hope that that person went to jail.

00:06:39.600 Is Haley's first name Edmund?

00:06:41.520 Yeah, Edmund Haley.

00:06:42.480 You've got half of it.

00:06:43.720 Yeah, so the first man to really promote this idea

00:06:46.020 is Edmund Haley.

00:06:47.600 And he's the guy of Haley's Comets fame.

00:06:50.060 And so he is a legitimate scientist,

00:06:52.080 friend of Isaac Newton.

00:06:53.160 He's a royal scientist.

00:06:54.860 He actually studied under the first,

00:06:57.340 James Flamestead, royal scientist,

00:06:59.780 which is very exciting.

00:07:01.040 So he's a credentialed guy.

00:07:03.520 Right.

00:07:04.040 And he noticed the polar shifts in the Earth,

00:07:06.700 in the Earth's magnetic field.

00:07:09.700 He's trying to solve some problems

00:07:11.340 from observing magnetic issues,

00:07:14.220 how the Earth's magnetic field was generated.

00:07:16.960 He's trying to reconcile issues

00:07:18.900 in the physical model of his day.

00:07:20.800 The fact that over time,

00:07:22.160 north on your compass begins to shift and change.

00:07:25.020 And so he's trying to account for that.

00:07:26.400 And instead of magma underneath the core

00:07:29.440 and being this fluid thing,

00:07:30.620 well, it's because it's all fluid and it's moving.

00:07:33.140 He's saying, but what if there's actually concentric spheres

00:07:35.340 and there's a magnetic sphere that's more iron

00:07:37.720 and more this and more that

00:07:38.600 that's moving at a different speed than the outer surface

00:07:41.840 or even a slightly different direction

00:07:44.140 and that that's what's causing these changes to the compass

00:07:47.660 and what's accounting for north and those kinds of things.

00:07:50.100 He was a serious scientist.

00:07:51.880 Yeah, very serious guy.

00:07:52.740 And he was positing this idea that,

00:07:54.560 well, this could help explain.

00:07:56.000 Right. 0.96

00:07:56.320 And was Haley even promoting the idea of civilizations 0.93

00:07:59.380 or anything at all under the earth.

00:08:01.040 He was simply positing a physical model

00:08:03.680 for the makeup of the earth itself.

00:08:06.060 Some of these later Jules Verne type,

00:08:08.740 you know, possibly mythologies,

00:08:10.580 possibly-

00:08:11.320 True.

00:08:12.220 Maybe they're-

00:08:12.860 Real history.

00:08:13.160 Maybe they happened.

00:08:14.220 Right.

00:08:14.620 Maybe they happened. 0.99

00:08:15.140 Haley was much more just a geological model.

00:08:16.700 He was just trying to figure out

00:08:17.860 how does the earth work, right?

00:08:19.400 What's the model?

00:08:20.420 And then Haley,

00:08:21.380 the guy who takes the baton from him 1.00

00:08:23.000 would be-

00:08:23.860 John Symes.

00:08:24.740 Yep.

00:08:25.340 Who is an army ranger or an army officer.

00:08:28.160 he's not actually a scientist,

00:08:30.640 but he gives a series of lectures and writings

00:08:32.600 in the early 1800s that promote this idea

00:08:35.460 that Haley first came up with.

00:08:37.720 But then he takes it a step further

00:08:39.080 and he starts to say,

00:08:40.960 well, there could be entire ecosystems,

00:08:43.260 entire civilizations that are under our feet

00:08:45.860 and we have to go find them.

00:08:48.140 And it's this whole other land full of riches

00:08:50.160 and life and wealth or dragons and fire

00:08:53.620 and a whole nother sun and ocean.

00:08:55.380 All of these fantastic things.

00:08:56.960 Classic 19th century explorer type of just spirit.

00:09:01.180 He tried to get government approval and funding

00:09:02.920 to take an expedition to the North Pole.

00:09:05.240 Which worked, not for him, but for the next guy.

00:09:07.880 Not for him.

00:09:08.740 And so everyone said no,

00:09:10.200 but the problem was his ideas were so popular

00:09:12.460 that it could no longer be ignored.

00:09:14.660 The public ran with it.

00:09:15.900 Right.

00:09:16.220 And they loved science ideas.

00:09:17.100 Well, it's a better story.

00:09:18.260 Right.

00:09:18.620 It's a way better story.

00:09:19.800 And then that gives birth,

00:09:20.920 so that gives birth to another naval officer,

00:09:23.000 Reynolds, I believe,

00:09:24.200 is one of the next guys

00:09:25.760 who actually does an expedition,

00:09:28.220 an Arctic expedition,

00:09:29.620 and is trying to map out the Arctic

00:09:32.120 and see if he begins to conceptualize

00:09:34.540 that there actually might be openings

00:09:36.860 at the two poles,

00:09:38.300 polar openings to these lower levels

00:09:41.120 of worlds beneath worlds.

00:09:43.800 Bism. 0.99

00:09:44.740 To bism, exactly. 0.95

00:09:46.140 So he's now trying to go

00:09:47.440 and chart these things out.

00:09:48.800 And then the last guy, most recent,

00:09:50.300 1910 to 1977.

00:09:52.200 So this guy has only been dead

00:09:54.240 for less than 50 years.

00:09:55.280 And that's Richard E. Byrd.

00:09:58.280 And then Byrd claims that on one of his expeditions

00:10:03.020 that he actually found one of the entrances

00:10:05.100 to Hollow Earth in the Southern Arctic, I think.

00:10:10.900 Yeah, it was the Antarctic South Pole area.

00:10:13.640 And he writes in his diary how he goes in.

00:10:16.700 He went in.

00:10:17.300 And found giants.

00:10:19.760 Civilizations.

00:10:20.540 Advanced technology.

00:10:21.340 Advanced technology.

00:10:22.880 Yeah.

00:10:23.060 And all that's in his diary that his son published after his death.

00:10:27.140 And that leaves us, you know, about up to date in terms of, so that's some of the main key players, the way that the theory has progressed.

00:10:35.800 In the modern age.

00:10:37.240 Right, in the modern age.

00:10:38.640 Exactly, yeah.

00:10:39.420 So, I mean, we'll go back to the ancients and talk about some of that and different conceptions.

00:10:43.180 But that's just the modern age, beginning with Haley from a very strict, you know, scientific approach.

00:10:50.500 This was not a fiction author.

00:10:52.560 This is, you know, this is, he's saying, no, I think this is real.

00:10:55.980 And the only thing that begins to develop further from Haley is the idea that these concentric spheres, that there may be space between them.

00:11:03.860 And that's where, of course, you have theories such as, you know, Ben's shock theory, a commonly known theory.

00:11:09.000 You can find it on Wikipedia.

00:11:10.200 That's right.

00:11:10.780 You know, we have a whole episode on that, bonus episodes.

00:11:13.380 I'll plug that real quick.

00:11:14.420 If you want to find out more about the history, the key players in the theory of hollow earth and how it works from a scientific perspective, join us on Patreon.

00:11:22.360 you can become a Patreon member

00:11:23.840 and we're going to have a few bonus episodes

00:11:25.860 and that's one of them.

00:11:27.600 But the shock theory,

00:11:28.540 quick synopsis with that is just saying,

00:11:30.700 just like bones are porous, right?

00:11:33.060 So saying, okay,

00:11:33.880 so we're not saying that you have these layers,

00:11:36.300 concentric spheres and that they're not touching.

00:11:39.560 We're saying, no, there are pillars and columns

00:11:41.120 and all these different things porous,

00:11:42.640 like the inside of a bone

00:11:44.600 and that that actually would be advantageous

00:11:47.380 to make the earth more durable, flexible.

00:11:49.920 They give with certain seismic shifts,

00:11:52.140 earthquakes, strikes from a meteor,

00:11:54.400 these kinds of things.

00:11:55.060 Or even gravitational anomalies. 0.60

00:11:56.920 It gives the earth mechanical advantage

00:11:59.000 to have some sort of internal damper

00:12:01.260 that helps resist gross spring-like mechanical stress

00:12:07.100 that it would experience from other heavenly bodies.

00:12:10.100 But what this allows for is not just spheres within spheres,

00:12:12.660 but space in between that could feasibly,

00:12:17.400 conceptually, it could accommodate its own heat source,

00:12:20.360 light source, water, vegetation, life, creatures, atmosphere, a world within worlds. Absolutely

00:12:28.100 possible. And anybody who says it's not is a liar. So we're not saying that this is true,

00:12:34.580 but what we want to help you out throughout the course of the series is not us making definitive

00:12:39.660 claims, this is true. But what we will say definitively is that those who attempt to

00:12:46.260 definitively say this is not true. They don't have a leg to stand on. And part of the reason

00:12:51.700 is because they can't get down there. Yeah. Because we've never even made it through the

00:12:55.800 earth's crust. Not even close. Not even close. Let alone into the mantle, which supposedly

00:13:00.160 makes up the bulk of the inside. Right. And to put into perspective, we're talking about

00:13:03.220 approximately 8,000 miles from top to bottom of the earth. The crust being just like, I mean,

00:13:09.780 think of an M&M with a, you know, a very thin candy, you know, hard shell layer. That's the

00:13:14.340 crust. So the crust is a very, in terms of depth, it is, you know, comparatively very small with

00:13:20.400 the rest of the inside of the earth. But still the crust is a few hundred miles. Right. I think

00:13:26.180 it's a little over a hundred and you have 3,900 to go to the center of the earth.

00:13:32.460 And the reality is if you were to shrink the earth down to the size of a baseball and hold

00:13:37.100 it in your hand and you took all the water off, the distance between the deepest trench and the

00:13:43.100 highest ocean to you would be almost imperceptible. Actually, I have heard Neil deGrasse Tyson say

00:13:48.300 that at scale, the earth without any water is smoother than the cue ball at a pool table.

00:13:53.900 It's that. It's smoother than a pool. We're so small that we look at these things and we say

00:13:58.240 they're huge. With Everest, with the Mariana Trench. You actually wouldn't even feel it on

00:14:01.860 your finger. Wow. It's just so. Yeah. If it was the size of a pool. Tiny, tiny to us. And we're

00:14:06.280 talking Everest going up 26,000 feet, I think, in change. 28,000. Yeah. When we go down to the

00:14:12.780 crust now that's a couple that's like five miles we're looking at a couple hundred miles and even

00:14:19.040 that and even that is nothing the shell gold when he says that oh those things you call mines

00:14:24.220 those are just scratches on the surface right lewis actually got that right he got that that's

00:14:29.740 that's that's that is correct because you're talking about a hundred miles in comparison

00:14:34.620 with eight thousand so so just going to the center of the earth and not all the way through

00:14:38.700 Yeah, exactly.

00:14:39.740 We'd be in 3,900.

00:14:41.140 Yeah, which is still negligible.

00:14:42.980 But just giving guys the scale.

00:14:44.920 All right, so now let's talk about the spiritual application

00:14:47.300 and ancients going.

00:14:48.200 So now we're going way beyond Haley going back in time

00:14:51.400 and talking about how this goes with the conception of Sheol,

00:14:55.000 the realm of the dead,

00:14:55.940 and not just ancients who would prescribe to the scripture,

00:15:00.860 but also Greek mythology and all these different ideas,

00:15:04.440 um you know hades and hercules going to rescue you know his his love and those kinds of things

00:15:09.900 that they're uh very likely is a reality to speak of there um but as we do that i think it's also

00:15:16.080 worth you know because i feel like i've promised it or at least in my head i promised it um but

00:15:21.540 in terms of creatures like i i think that it's at least plausible that you could we're not just

00:15:27.640 talking about single-celled organisms, you know, or certain, um, uh, certain whatever, you know,

00:15:33.800 um, amoebas or, yeah, exactly. Yeah. Like, or bacteria. Um, I mean, this could explain like

00:15:40.900 dinosaurs, dragons, sea serpents. There's been some pictures that have come out recently

00:15:46.580 that are blurry creatures, of course, of course, because, uh, you know, creatures that don't want

00:15:51.860 to have their picture taken are always blurry, but off the coast of Antarctica of these things

00:15:57.500 crawling around the surface that are just bizarre.

00:15:59.900 And you have stories of scientists that go to Antarctica.

00:16:03.260 H.P. Lovecraft riffed on this in his Mountains of Madness,

00:16:07.220 at the Mountains of Madness,

00:16:08.700 that these scientists claim that they see things

00:16:11.380 that just should not be there,

00:16:13.500 that are completely bizarre.

00:16:15.000 And there's creatures that are massive

00:16:16.920 and they look like monsters and they're really weird

00:16:20.200 and they don't know where they go.

00:16:21.640 They seem to disappear behind the pyramids of Antarctica,

00:16:25.200 of course, because there are pyramids in Antarctica. 0.85

00:16:27.500 You had the Nazis that were heavily invested

00:16:30.920 in trying to conquer Antarctica. 0.66

00:16:32.980 And they were also occultists, every single one of them. 0.70

00:16:35.620 And they were trying to do Nazi bell experiments

00:16:37.560 and all these type of things to open up things.

00:16:41.100 We don't really know the details in Antarctica

00:16:43.820 because they were so sure that there's something there

00:16:47.240 that we don't know about yet.

00:16:48.880 That would be valuable.

00:16:50.920 Or that we've forgotten about.

00:16:51.820 And America was trying to do it too.

00:16:53.180 They weren't the only, I mean, they probably invested more.

00:16:56.160 But think about that.

00:16:56.960 The whole world is against you, right? 0.96

00:16:58.700 With Germany. 1.00

00:16:59.740 And it's gonna take everything you got 0.57

00:17:03.060 to try to win this war.

00:17:04.180 And you're thinking it's worth reserving

00:17:06.480 some of your resources, your wealth, your time,

00:17:09.480 your energy, your manpower

00:17:10.860 to go and try to find this secret

00:17:14.340 that could give you an advantage.

00:17:16.840 And it's not just the geographical locale

00:17:19.980 of an advantageous place to be able to go and invade another.

00:17:24.500 It's not just viewing Antarctica like that.

00:17:26.600 they actually thought there might be something there.

00:17:29.440 Something that could help them win the war.

00:17:31.800 So they dedicated not just some of their manpower,

00:17:34.520 but actually some of their brightest minds

00:17:36.280 to figuring this place out.

00:17:38.340 And it certainly captivated the mind of humanity

00:17:41.140 in our mythology and the stories we tell

00:17:43.280 from ancient times all the way up through,

00:17:45.820 I mean, I think of True Silver and Moria 0.71

00:17:47.620 and the dwarves delving too deep and too greedily 0.69

00:17:51.040 and what things were awakened in the deep places of the earth. 0.94

00:17:54.140 The Balrog.

00:17:54.680 With the Balrog or with in Paralandra when Ransom goes into the planet, into Venus. 1.00

00:18:01.580 It's amazing. 0.90

00:18:02.380 Ransom descends into Venus and he sees a society of beings.

00:18:07.860 And there's like this procession of ornate parades going on underneath Venus.

00:18:15.300 And he actually is worried at one point because he thinks they're not going to know that they have a king and queen on the surface.

00:18:21.320 They're not going to know that they actually don't run this world.

00:18:23.960 And then he's calmed quickly by remembering maybe they're just here because Maladiel, God, delights in them.

00:18:31.120 He wants to see them here, and he's the real king.

00:18:34.060 And so Lewis, all through his fiction, including Till We Have Faces,

00:18:38.840 which is just a retelling of a Greek myth that I'm sure we'll talk about with Persephone and Cupid and Psyche,

00:18:44.000 and how you have to actually descend into this world, and there's a whole other world within just because God likes it.

00:18:51.620 And it would be a glory for man to discover more of it.

00:18:54.780 And he actually, in doing so, will discover more about himself.

00:18:57.700 Real quick, before we continue with the show,

00:18:59.540 you need to be aware that you're merely watching one episode

00:19:02.720 of what's actually a 10-part series

00:19:05.740 covering all things under the banner of high strangeness.

00:19:09.400 The 10 episodes include the following.

00:19:11.800 Number one, the lost city of Atlantis

00:19:14.240 has just recently been discovered.

00:19:16.600 Episode number two, Hollow Earth,

00:19:18.860 the last living dragons and primary water. Episode number three, biblical giants, their clans,

00:19:26.040 sizes, and supernatural abilities. Episode number four, mythological giants. Hercules was actually

00:19:34.200 a Nephilim. Episode number five, everyone has been wrong about Bigfoot. Episode number six,

00:19:40.960 fairies, the elemental spirits. Episode number seven, the biblical case for the existence

00:19:47.260 of mermaids episode number eight ghost that's not your grandma that's a demon episode number nine

00:19:55.580 witches necromancy and familiar spirits and lastly episode 10 angels their classifications

00:20:04.240 physicality and sexes now all 10 of these episodes are available ad free right now exclusively on

00:20:14.400 patreon these episodes are only dropping one at a time over a series of multiple weeks but you can

00:20:20.760 get them all available today ad free plus the addition of two exclusive bonus episodes at

00:20:29.720 patreon.com forward slash right response ministries again it's exclusively found at patreon.com

00:20:39.000 forward slash right response ministries.

00:20:42.980 Go and check them out today.

00:20:44.640 And now back to our program.

00:20:47.160 Too often, modern scientism and scientific rationalism

00:20:51.940 and the way that we think about the world

00:20:53.240 is we ask the question of what and how pretty pervasively.

00:20:58.500 And that's good.

00:20:59.280 That's a Proverbs 25 too.

00:21:01.840 It's the glory of God to conceal thing.

00:21:03.280 It's the glory of kings to search the thing out.

00:21:05.260 We have this instinct deep within us

00:21:07.060 that even those who deny God's very being

00:21:09.140 can't escape the instinct to ask why and how

00:21:12.120 or the what and how.

00:21:14.400 But what they fail to ask is often why

00:21:16.480 because they don't believe there is a why.

00:21:19.380 They don't believe that anything is for anything at all.

00:21:22.060 It just is.

00:21:23.460 But what Lewis understood as a medieval,

00:21:26.460 what Lewis understood is that everything is for something.

00:21:30.280 And so we shouldn't just be asking of nature,

00:21:32.860 what is it and how does it work?

00:21:34.420 We should also be asking what would please God?

00:21:36.620 What would be glorious?

00:21:38.220 What would blow your mind?

00:21:39.180 To the symphony of creation.

00:21:41.560 What would be just over the top

00:21:44.220 in terms of beauty and glory and intricacy?

00:21:47.940 And we're so used to some of these things

00:21:49.920 that we actually already know about

00:21:51.460 that we don't realize

00:21:53.820 that they are all absolutely mind-blowingly incredible.

00:21:58.220 We talk about,

00:21:59.960 Ben and I are writing a book right now for Haunted Cosmos.

00:22:02.500 And one of the things we explore quite a bit in the book

00:22:05.260 is just this idea of, okay, the world is not just stuff,

00:22:09.340 but the world also is stuff.

00:22:11.020 And the stuff is pretty magnificent.

00:22:13.280 You know, when you think about something like,

00:22:15.520 I don't know, a grasshopper

00:22:16.760 that has this insane mechanical mechanism in its leg,

00:22:21.480 that it can leap the equivalent of you standing still

00:22:24.300 and jumping a football field.

00:22:26.540 It can do that. 0.99

00:22:28.100 And it has its nose in its stomach

00:22:31.440 and it can't, you know, it's tone deaf apparently.

00:22:34.120 We've learned all these things about this little tiny grasshopper that most of us walk over

00:22:37.640 or crunch under feet and don't think, we don't think that much. And I just think,

00:22:41.760 what if you were the inventor of the grasshopper? Like, would you bring that up at parties?

00:22:46.740 You'd want people to notice like the grasshopper. And that's just a tiny little thing. Imagine now

00:22:52.280 worlds and planets and the workings of the spheres of the heavens and the medieval mind,

00:22:58.160 they asked the why, and we need to recover. That's why Lewis is so great. That's why Tolkien

00:23:03.180 is so great. But they also asked the why from a fundamental understanding of the world that it's

00:23:07.900 not efficiency and pragmatism. It's actually, it's rich. It's beauty and glory. It's like the

00:23:15.200 backdrop of this set. It's not just some drywall and some paint. You got trim, you got wainscoting,

00:23:22.360 you got paintings, you have books. That's how the world actually is. I think we can agree that

00:23:25.440 minimalism is gay. Minimalism is fake. I think we just agree. And in Christendom, it will be 1.00

00:23:31.020 condemned. When we get our Protestant Franco, no more brutalism. God didn't make a brutalist 0.92

00:23:39.920 grasshopper. No, no. Yeah. So the modern materialist is arrogant and often with a

00:23:46.220 subject like this would ask the question, who cares? Yeah. Who cares about this? And we want

00:23:50.460 to ask and urge and encourage and challenge Christians to ask, why not? Yeah. Instead of 0.90

00:23:56.940 who cares? Why not? Until you prove otherwise, I'm going to hold to, not definitively claim that

00:24:03.500 this is empirical, because I don't have the evidence to support that. But in terms of what's

00:24:08.800 possible, I'm going within the depths of my God-given imagination, I'm going to assume

00:24:16.120 the most glorious scenario, because that gels better with my understanding from the biblical

00:24:21.240 text of the character and nature of God than anything that's bland. God is not boring. And so

00:24:26.480 unless you can tell me that there's not a world beneath this world where dinosaurs and dragons

00:24:30.700 and sea serpents and unicorns still exist, then I'm going to say it's possible. In fact,

00:24:38.020 knowing what I know about the character of God, I'm going to say that it might even be plausible.

00:24:42.740 And knowing what we know about the historical record, where it's not just in the Bible that

00:24:47.300 we hear about Sheol, it's all over history. Every culture had an underworld and every culture

00:24:54.540 started from one family, from Noah after the flood.

00:24:58.000 And so it would make sense that we have rhyming and harmony

00:25:00.840 and slight twisting and corruption

00:25:03.360 from the true story of Christianity.

00:25:06.540 The true myth.

00:25:07.040 But that doesn't mean that all of them are nonsense.

00:25:08.960 Right.

00:25:09.300 That actually means that all of them

00:25:10.400 are based on something real.

00:25:12.360 Right.

00:25:12.760 And you don't just lose the element of real.

00:25:15.880 All of them are embellishments or corruptions.

00:25:20.760 They're lies made up of partial truths.

00:25:23.020 So let's go there now.

00:25:23.720 So that let's talk about, so that's hollow earth and that's creatures, plausible creatures within a world, under the world. 0.72

00:25:30.860 Now let's talk about Sheol, right?

00:25:33.160 And as we talk about Sheol, let's talk about the spiritual component.

00:25:36.560 But the big thing that we want to get at with Sheol is that the very real possibility that Sheol is not just has a spiritual component, but it's quite literal, actually within the earth.

00:25:48.140 That there actually is a place called Sheol, chasms, physical, literal chasms under the earth.

00:25:55.080 And that this was the dominant view for a very long time until all of a sudden, you know, the smartest generation was born. 0.98

00:26:02.640 So you can say that we're the first people who weren't stupid to ever live. 0.98

00:26:08.500 Well, that's just true. 0.99

00:26:09.800 Which is a very arrogant position to take.

00:26:12.400 Or you can say these guys, it's worth exploring their ideas.

00:26:17.740 And for them, the world's not just stuff.

00:26:20.280 So certainly they're gonna say,

00:26:21.380 it has a spiritual component.

00:26:23.080 But they also weren't Gnostics.

00:26:25.100 See, that's the thing.

00:26:25.640 We don't wanna be materials.

00:26:26.760 We also don't wanna be Gnostics.

00:26:27.880 So they would say, it's not just stuff. 0.62

00:26:29.340 There's a spiritual component.

00:26:30.540 It's not just spirit.

00:26:31.760 There's a literal component. 0.99

00:26:33.660 Hell beneath, Sheol in this case, 0.91

00:26:35.860 Sheol beneath, heavens above. 0.91

00:26:38.460 And a literal sense of the heavens

00:26:40.660 being out there somewhere.

00:26:42.900 And hell actually being beneath our feet.

00:26:45.300 So Sheol, Ben, Brian,

00:26:46.840 can we talk about that? Well, even if you just take, I mean, she's probably defined her terms

00:26:52.080 a little bit. Sheol is a word in the Old Testament in Hebrew that's used as literally to speak about

00:26:58.660 the grave, but also as the abode of the dead. Right. Like you might think of it as an underworld

00:27:04.200 in other mythological accounts of similar ideas. And it has many different components in scripture.

00:27:10.940 You can read in, it appears in Jonah is talking about going to Sheol in Psalm 86.

00:27:15.700 There's many passages in the Old Testament that where Sheol is given multiple dimensions

00:27:20.880 to its like multiple features to its reality. 0.92

00:27:24.700 At minimum, it's certainly the grave in the sense that human beings go into the earth

00:27:30.560 when we die.

00:27:31.920 So at the minimum, we go into the earth, we're buried.

00:27:36.200 The curse of the serpent is to eat the grave.

00:27:39.300 It's to eat dirt. 1.00

00:27:40.400 It's to eat the dust because his abode will ultimately be Sheol. 1.00

00:27:45.260 It will be the grave. 1.00

00:27:46.560 He will be the one who's cast into the lake of fire.

00:27:49.420 There's an element of suffering and of,

00:27:53.020 in some conceptions like fire and heat and darkness.

00:27:57.280 And it's a place where, you know,

00:28:00.960 essentially where people are in the Psalms, for example,

00:28:04.220 pleading with God to rescue. 1.00

00:28:06.380 Don't leave my soul to Sheol. 1.00

00:28:09.800 Bad to me. 0.99

00:28:10.420 In Psalm 16.

00:28:13.580 16.

00:28:13.980 In Psalm 16, I said it's music.

00:28:15.480 I should remember it.

00:28:16.140 Yeah, you should remember it.

00:28:16.740 The metrical 1650 translates it to,

00:28:20.540 my soul thou will not leave in hell,

00:28:23.640 nor suffer wilt thou too.

00:28:25.140 Leave thy holy one in sepulcher,

00:28:26.960 or corruption leave thereto, something like that.

00:28:30.400 And it's clearly a messianic Psalm

00:28:33.320 in that later they say,

00:28:35.200 well, David saw corruption, who wrote that,

00:28:37.340 but Jesus did not.

00:28:39.140 We see in the biblical record that Jesus goes into Sheol, 0.63

00:28:43.220 which we preserve in our creeds,

00:28:44.560 that Jesus descended into hell and he led captivity captive.

00:28:49.880 So that his body was buried in the sepulcher. 0.86

00:28:52.460 And then in a sense, that's Sheol,

00:28:53.960 but that his spirit actually descended beyond that.

00:28:56.420 And we're saying that it's absolutely plausible

00:28:58.260 that his spirit descended in a literal sense

00:29:00.480 to the belly of the earth beyond much deeper than the grave.

00:29:04.340 And that in that place,

00:29:05.700 that there were literal chasms divided into certain parts.

00:29:09.480 One, a place of paradise, Abraham's bosom,

00:29:12.180 that were not yet in heaven with God

00:29:14.980 because the way had not yet been attained.

00:29:17.620 So now Christ is leading a host of captives.

00:29:20.820 So they weren't tormented there.

00:29:21.920 They were in a place of paradise,

00:29:23.600 separated by a chasm between those who were in torment.

00:29:25.880 Uncrossable.

00:29:26.740 Exactly.

00:29:28.020 But then Jesus now,

00:29:29.800 we would say that Old Testament saints

00:29:31.400 have been transferred now in heaven.

00:29:33.140 And those who have died since the cross, that they're now in heaven as well.

00:29:37.980 To be absent in the body is to be present with the Lord.

00:29:40.280 But before that, the idea is not just a spiritual component,

00:29:44.240 but in a literal component that Jesus in the Spirit,

00:29:46.520 so body in the grave for three days, in the Spirit descended and proclaimed his victory,

00:29:52.440 not giving a second chance or offer of redemption,

00:29:56.120 but a Christ-like nanny-nanny-boo-boo announcement. 0.93

00:30:00.360 I told you so. 0.61

00:30:00.980 I told you so.

00:30:01.680 shaming these spirits,

00:30:04.960 putting them to open shame 0.61

00:30:06.200 and then leading a host of captives,

00:30:10.260 the saints, the righteous.

00:30:12.080 But that's actually not just a spiritual concept,

00:30:15.000 but that it actually might be a place beneath our feet.

00:30:17.760 And we get that from in the writings of Samuel,

00:30:19.740 we hear about Saul going to visit the witch of Endor.

00:30:23.120 And he's asking the witch to divine for him

00:30:26.520 the ghost of Samuel.

00:30:28.540 And she's surprised when she realizes that,

00:30:30.960 oh, oops, it's actually the ghost of Samuel. It was supposed to be my familiar spirit and it's

00:30:35.360 not. Don't do DMT, kids. And so Samuel rises up. Out of the earth. Out of the earth. And that

00:30:44.040 matters because he's dead. Right. Where was he? He was down there. He was in the earth. And here's

00:30:50.360 the thing. He's a spirit. It doesn't matter. No, he's a spirit. Just because you're a spirit does

00:30:55.840 not make you omnipresent. No one is omnipresent apart from God. So spirits are geographically

00:31:00.920 bound. They're somewhere. They are in a place. And so Samuel rises from the earth. You couple

00:31:06.720 that with the parable in Matthew's gospel of Lazarus and the rich man. And you hear how the

00:31:13.640 rich man is separated from Lazarus by a chasm that he can't cross. And yet Lazarus and Abraham

00:31:19.120 can see him and hear him. And he can do the same. He can see them and hear them. And that is

00:31:25.520 Abraham's bosom. And so now that Christ has ascended to the right hand of God, now that the

00:31:30.180 work of salvation has been accomplished, he led Abraham's bosom, this paradise neighborhood of

00:31:35.740 Sheol is what I've called it. It's a neighborhood of Sheol that's, you know, paradisal. And he has

00:31:41.600 led that now to where Paul is right in saying that when he dies, his spirit is in the presence

00:31:46.560 of the Lord. Be with the Lord. Right. Who is seated at the right hand of the father. So obviously

00:31:51.240 Christ is not still in Sheol. Right. And when we think about the way that the scriptures speak

00:31:55.920 about these things. We tend to insert hidden premises of spiritual allegory and metaphor

00:32:01.500 in sometimes ways that are uninterrogated, where the scriptures speak about the third heavens,

00:32:08.700 and the third heaven, and the scriptures speak about the belly of the earth.

00:32:12.520 And then we just sort of translate that immediately in our modern conceptions of

00:32:17.920 the spiritual and the physical. We tend to conceive of them not being nested together,

00:32:22.100 but being totally kind of hermetically sealed separated realms in a way

00:32:26.260 where it's like, oh, you're in heaven.

00:32:27.680 Where is heaven?

00:32:28.260 Well, it's nowhere.

00:32:29.360 It's spirit.

00:32:30.160 So it's nowhere.

00:32:30.980 It's strictly on a 17th dimension, ethereal plane outside of the universe.

00:32:37.400 But what if it's in the universe?

00:32:39.440 And yet Christ descends, as we were talking about last night in the hotel lobby,

00:32:44.500 Christ ascends in his bodily form until he's hidden by a cloud.

00:32:49.820 And that's not a metaphor.

00:32:52.100 Right.

00:32:52.600 He goes up into the clouds.

00:32:54.500 And Paul says he gets a vision of the third heaven

00:32:56.820 or whether he's caught up there bodily,

00:32:58.160 he doesn't know.

00:32:58.920 Even he doesn't know.

00:33:00.140 But he's caught up.

00:33:01.940 His spirit is caught up or his body's caught up.

00:33:03.600 But in the case of Jesus, this is why it's significant.

00:33:05.280 So Jesus now has his glorified body

00:33:08.400 and he appears to the disciples

00:33:09.840 and appears to over 500 eyewitnesses

00:33:12.560 and has multiple appearances.

00:33:14.220 And in these appearances,

00:33:15.640 we can tell that Jesus in his glorified body,

00:33:19.040 so same body that was buried, but now made new.

00:33:21.520 So not a new body, meaning another body, but same body, but glorified, made new.

00:33:26.060 And that's a resurrection.

00:33:27.300 Like in the case of other people who were resurrected,

00:33:29.680 the more technical and accurate word would be a revivification, right?

00:33:33.600 So like Lazarus is not glorified.

00:33:36.960 It's still a seed.

00:33:37.940 He's revived, but it kind of sucks to be Lazarus,

00:33:41.760 but he just ends up having to die twice.

00:33:44.280 But Jesus is raised as a first fruits.

00:33:46.820 So otherwise, if it's not different, the resurrection and revivification being distinct,

00:33:52.620 then Jesus wouldn't be the first fruits.

00:33:54.560 Lazarus and other, even before that, Elijah raising this woman's son.

00:33:58.960 There would be other guys who would be first fruits because there were other resurrections.

00:34:02.200 But rightly viewed, they're not being glorified.

00:34:04.800 It's revivications, coming back from the dead, but with the same body.

00:34:08.840 Jesus is coming back with the same body, but now in a glorified state.

00:34:12.020 And in that glorified state, in his appearances with the apostles, he can appear with doors being locked.

00:34:19.560 And he can vanish.

00:34:20.440 And vanish.

00:34:21.700 Now, there's also the physical, literal component.

00:34:23.780 He can eat fish, and you could touch the wounds in his side or in his hands.

00:34:28.880 He can be seen.

00:34:29.760 He could be touched.

00:34:30.540 He can digest.

00:34:31.700 He can eat.

00:34:32.920 But he also can, whether it's walking through the door or just vanishing out of, you know, or appearing out of thin air and then vanishing.

00:34:40.700 But here's the point as it goes back to the ascension.

00:34:44.020 In our creeds, and in more importantly,

00:34:46.540 scripture that the creeds are based upon,

00:34:48.480 why don't we have the incarnation,

00:34:50.460 the life, the death, the burial, the resurrection,

00:34:52.780 and the vanishing of Christ?

00:34:54.520 That last part, if you're listening closely,

00:34:57.240 dear listener, that last part, that was a trick.

00:34:59.960 We don't have the vanishing of Christ.

00:35:01.340 We have the ascension.

00:35:02.680 And in the ascension, think about that.

00:35:04.160 He physically lifts from the,

00:35:05.720 because he could just vanish.

00:35:06.780 He's already proven that he could do that.

00:35:08.300 Just vanish and go to the 17th dimension.

00:35:10.220 right because you can't ascending would be of no avail that doesn't help you because it's not a

00:35:14.420 place that's above or below it's it's on another plane it's strictly spirit but that's not what

00:35:18.440 happens he physically lifts up off the ground ascends and only becomes uh no longer visible

00:35:24.860 um because he he just lifts for a while and then vanishes he goes in a cloud no he gets behind a

00:35:30.980 cloud visibility is obstructed um it's perfectly plausible to assume that he continues to ascend

00:35:37.080 right going somewhere someplace someplace and he's seated now he's forever the god man right so

00:35:43.960 jesus is in the flesh forevermore and his flesh is seated on a throne flesh physical flesh seated

00:35:50.500 on a physical throne at god's right hand we don't know exactly where uh certainly a place with where

00:35:56.560 the spiritual component i think is heightened from our earthly existence and and and heightened

00:36:01.720 to a degree and in certain measures and ways that we can't comprehend at this point but to say that

00:36:06.780 it's only spiritual. There's no physical component to angels or to heaven. Now, God himself, the

00:36:13.380 Father and the Spirit are most pure spirits without body parts and passions. The Son is both the

00:36:18.500 divine nature and the human nature. But to say that heaven, not speaking of God, but heaven and

00:36:24.520 angelic beings, that there's no physical element whatsoever, is such a leap and an assumption

00:36:30.120 beyond the biblical narrative

00:36:31.680 that I think it reeks of arrogance.

00:36:34.160 It's us translating, again,

00:36:37.060 that hermetic seal between the physical and the spiritual

00:36:40.380 instead of seeing them as nested together.

00:36:44.380 And that's actually a good thing,

00:36:46.720 that God wanted it to be that way.

00:36:49.220 It's why, you know, when you look at,

00:36:51.660 I come back to the medievals a lot

00:36:53.580 and Lewis's understanding of the medievals,

00:36:55.940 I think because of his understanding of the medieval mind

00:36:58.540 that was not, it didn't have, it had errors, but not the same ones that we have. So it's very

00:37:03.360 valuable to read them because when you, when you look at the way they saw the world, you discover

00:37:08.960 that, you know, when, when they looked at, when they looked at the, the idea of even let's say

00:37:16.840 heaven and Lewis in the great divorce does this well. And it's then translated into the last

00:37:21.440 battle in Narnia where of course, love not the things of this world for the things of this world

00:37:27.600 are passing away. Don't marry yourself to this fallen creation. It is passing away. And yet,

00:37:35.000 I think Lewis conceptualized this well when he saw it as the door to the old Narnia closing,

00:37:42.560 but then everything true and good and beautiful, the real true Narnia, it's not a floaty 17th

00:37:48.560 dimensional spiritual place. It's a new heavens and new earth. They're going up, come further up

00:37:55.400 and further into the mountain in the great divorce. It's as if, um, the, the world that we,

00:38:01.200 that, uh, the fallenness and the world is passing away. He almost conceives of it as like shrink.

00:38:06.580 It's so tiny. It's almost, it's like a dust moat. It's insignificant. And, and then you come up into

00:38:11.260 the heaven and it's like, it's true. There's true color and there's true beauty. And there's like,

00:38:16.680 to me, that is a much more rich understanding of the physical and spiritual and the nesting

00:38:23.220 together right too than the way we often translate and that you know at one point one of the characters

00:38:28.120 further up and further in it's all in plato and the only thing and i think there's there's something

00:38:32.080 in plato the only thing i would add to that is um and it's all in plato and a good bit is also

00:38:36.160 in um aristotle because the difference with with what we where we where i would disagree with c.s

00:38:42.000 lewis and his conception this is the last battle the final the chronicles of narnia series is i

00:38:46.320 would say that um uh i think lewis got it right um but he only got half of it right the other half

00:38:52.340 is, but then eventually the old Narnia that you're mourning, that one was actually also

00:38:57.500 real.

00:38:57.860 It was not just something that was a signpost pointing to the true form, the reality that

00:39:02.220 existed in a true form somewhere else.

00:39:04.160 But the true form was also physical and literal, not just a metaphor.

00:39:08.160 So the form is real, but also this is real.

00:39:10.600 And that the final thing is that Aslan comes back to this world that's been iced over and

00:39:16.060 eaten bare by dragons and father time, and then makes that one real too.

00:39:19.940 and it even dwarfs in magnificence the other one,

00:39:23.520 you know, and then we come back there.

00:39:25.320 Like that was the-

00:39:25.980 We're caught up.

00:39:26.720 Right.

00:39:27.340 The world is remade

00:39:28.460 and then the new city descends upon you.

00:39:30.760 We'll have to have a Joel Webin, right?

00:39:33.340 Response.

00:39:34.580 Farnia?

00:39:36.460 Charnia?

00:39:37.140 I mean, well, charn is not good. 0.97

00:39:39.040 You don't want charn.

00:39:40.220 You don't want to be that. 1.00

00:39:41.420 Yeah, the white witch, that's not good. 0.99

00:39:44.340 The word soap makes Christian soap. 0.98

00:39:47.380 What makes our soap Christian?

00:39:49.420 First and foremost, it is because our soap is good soap,

00:39:52.980 made exclusively from natural and organic ingredients.

00:39:56.660 In addition to making a good product, we also promote a good message.

00:40:01.420 Our bottles of soap aren't wrapped in heretical garbage.

00:40:04.620 They're wrapped in sound doctrine and the infallible truth of Scripture.

00:40:08.980 Lastly, we have a good mission.

00:40:11.020 At the word soap, 10% of all our profits go directly to the godly men and women at Abolitionist Rising

00:40:17.940 who are fighting to protect the lives of unborn children.

00:40:21.820 Our product is pure, our message is true,

00:40:25.820 and our mission is pleasing to Christ.

00:40:28.420 So join us.

00:40:29.720 Visit thewordsoap.com today.

00:40:32.280 Again, that's thewordsoap.com.

00:40:35.000 Everyone needs soap, so wash yourself in the word.

00:40:41.680 Are you a beef jerky enthusiast?

00:40:44.100 Well, then stop it.

00:40:45.900 Seriously, stop it.

00:40:47.120 because biltong is superior to beef jerky in every single way.

00:40:52.620 It's a traditional South African meat snack,

00:40:55.440 but it's free from all the preservatives, the sugar, and the soy.

00:40:59.760 It's like the Wagyu of jerky.

00:41:01.580 Now, here's the exciting news from Farmer Bill's Provisions.

00:41:05.620 Farmer Bill's is introducing their brand new product line for your enjoyment.

00:41:10.080 We've got right here the traditional beef slab.

00:41:13.600 You've also got, if you want a smaller portion,

00:41:15.940 You've got the slices. It's just as much meat, but you're able to eat it in increments

00:41:20.420 This is for yourself as an individual or maybe for you and your family your kids

00:41:24.740 Then you've got the meat sticks

00:41:26.340 This is what if you're a working man

00:41:28.160 You want a snack to keep in your pocket to eat, you know before lunch or something like that

00:41:32.120 Grab one of their beef sticks and take it on the go 0.83

00:41:35.640 Lastly you got to check out the tallow for all the moms out there

00:41:40.040 My wife she swears by this many women in our church say that it's a fantastic product 0.98

00:41:45.300 So don't waste any more time. Go to farmerbillsprovisions.com today to support a Christian

00:41:52.560 owned small business. And while you're at it, go ahead and subscribe so that you can save on

00:41:58.200 multiple options and ensure that you and your family will never be without your favorites.

00:42:03.420 Don't wait any longer. Go to farmerbillsprovisions.com right now. Get 20% cash back on your

00:42:10.660 first order by using the link below so okay so that's all right so what we've done so far is

00:42:16.360 we've given you an outline we started with lewis right that's just a good start cold open if you

00:42:20.420 didn't like that then you know what just i'm sorry guys you know just get out of here i'm sorry

00:42:25.060 careful consideration i tried to talk everyone in to starting with tolkien in the halls of mandos

00:42:30.420 but joel said no because he hates the simarillion the simarillion i'm sure it's amazing but it's

00:42:37.020 just uh it's just beyond me that's also a lie i didn't actually i'm more of a hobbit lord of the

00:42:40.860 rings guy you know just a normie i'm just a normie um but okay so we started with bism c.s lewis

00:42:45.940 that got us to hollow earth we gave both the theory uh in in a in a 30 000 foot view and some

00:42:50.740 of the key players then we moved from that to shield and we've talked about that now now we

00:42:55.220 want to move back to kind of hollow earth but also some conceptions of shield some conceptions

00:42:59.880 of bism a little bit of middle earth get it all in there primary water that's one thing that we

00:43:04.900 And then we'll end with three primary water.

00:43:08.840 Just for the record, if we were gauging here

00:43:11.760 in terms of, we're saying it's all possible,

00:43:13.500 some plausible, but if we were gauging percentages,

00:43:17.220 if we were betting men and we were taking bets

00:43:19.100 on hollower theory as conceptualized by a bird,

00:43:24.480 I'd say, I'll put it at like a 40%.

00:43:28.120 Possible.

00:43:29.560 Well, that's high.

00:43:30.420 That's high.

00:43:30.540 At a 40%.

00:43:31.440 I was going to say 2.4%.

00:43:33.720 Okay, 2.4%.

00:43:34.400 But none of us are giving it a zero.

00:43:36.820 No, no, no, no.

00:43:37.480 And none of us are giving it over 50.

00:43:39.080 So you're saying there's a chance.

00:43:39.960 I'm saying the concept of hollow earth

00:43:42.600 as in a richly cavernous earth

00:43:46.100 with a lot of wide spaces.

00:43:47.920 That one I'm putting it like,

00:43:48.920 that one I'm putting,

00:43:50.180 I was going to say 90.

00:43:51.340 I genuinely fully believe that that's true.

00:43:53.500 But then the primary water thing.

00:43:55.100 But then that's my point.

00:43:56.120 So I just want the listener to be aware this matters.

00:43:57.900 So like if we're saying King Kong level

00:44:01.040 journey to the center of the earth,

00:44:03.020 that's where i'm putting 40 yeah i'm still giving it 40 he's still giving it 40 crazy and i want the

00:44:09.440 listener to appreciate that that's all that's a hopeful you have that's abraham hoping against

00:44:13.420 hope you have haunted cosmos on your show joel and we are saying just and i'm out hoping you guys

00:44:19.580 yeah so so putting that at 40 we got a 2.5 over there we've got a of the full monty 10

00:44:26.600 Of the bird conception?

00:44:29.180 Literally zero.

00:44:30.880 But I'm saying definitely creatures,

00:44:34.340 definitely ocean.

00:44:36.080 The fountains of the deep.

00:44:37.880 Exactly.

00:44:38.640 So then the hollow earth conception

00:44:39.740 that still could support heat, light, vegetation,

00:44:43.040 creatures, even large creatures,

00:44:45.460 dragons, sea serpents,

00:44:47.080 but porous, like the bone structure thing.

00:44:49.140 Of course, everybody knows it

00:44:50.540 as the Ben Garrett shock system.

00:44:52.280 Right, everyone travels.

00:44:53.680 Travel from one place to another via caverns

00:44:57.360 and underground waterways and things.

00:45:00.100 So that one we're putting 90 to 100%.

00:45:02.040 But here's the last one that I just want you guys to see here

00:45:05.020 in terms of comparison.

00:45:07.400 Primary water theory, this is not us just like,

00:45:10.060 it's so true, King, you know, and having fun.

00:45:12.600 Primary water theory, I think is,

00:45:14.700 if it's not 100, it's 99.9.

00:45:16.620 And the reason is important.

00:45:17.760 And we're going to spell it out here in just a moment.

00:45:19.840 Because the reason is that,

00:45:21.320 and we're going to do this in this episode, right?

00:45:22.800 Right now, we're about to do it.

00:45:24.440 The reason this is important

00:45:25.620 that listeners need to understand,

00:45:26.760 a lot of this is because

00:45:27.840 when we approach our view of the world

00:45:30.360 through a disenchanted materialist lens

00:45:33.300 and we tell the materialist story of all things,

00:45:36.680 of us, the world, and all things,

00:45:39.440 then you end up having to start

00:45:41.460 with certain presuppositions.

00:45:43.280 Things like the universe is, you know,

00:45:46.020 it's 14, 17, 19,

00:45:47.660 it gets more billions of years old every day.

00:45:49.900 They got to push it back further.

00:45:50.920 They have to give these vast periods of time,

00:45:53.880 vast amounts of completely cold dead space

00:45:55.860 that can eventually just by tooth and nail

00:45:59.280 that can produce life on earth

00:46:02.280 in these vast geological ages.

00:46:04.280 And there's no benevolent caring God

00:46:06.120 in no sense is the earth for people.

00:46:08.400 In no sense is any of that true. 0.99

00:46:10.380 The Christian story is that though the world

00:46:13.260 and though creation is fallen and cursed,

00:46:15.480 that it was made for man and it was good.

00:46:18.780 And this primary water issue,

00:46:20.620 I think you're probably going to define it for us here.

00:46:22.800 I'll spell it out.

00:46:23.200 It's one of those issues where a priori to me,

00:46:28.240 on the story level,

00:46:29.960 I'm more inclined to say,

00:46:32.680 that sounds more like what God was doing

00:46:35.760 than what the other story is.

00:46:37.080 Exactly.

00:46:38.300 This one matters because we're not just debating something

00:46:41.320 that would be cool.

00:46:42.220 Yeah.

00:46:42.660 We're fascinating.

00:46:43.280 We're debating something that the very character of God

00:46:46.460 at some level is hinging,

00:46:50.440 did God create a zero-sum game, a fixed pie?

00:46:53.640 And then, because remember,

00:46:55.020 it's not just that God created,

00:46:56.300 but one of the chief commandments,

00:46:58.340 the dominion mandate, the cultural mandate

00:47:00.140 is be fruitful and multiply.

00:47:01.680 Did God, according to Bill Gates,

00:47:03.860 God told us to do the very thing

00:47:06.260 that ultimately would be our suicide, our demise, right?

00:47:10.700 And Bill Gates, you know, like, you know,

00:47:13.260 according to Satan, right?

00:47:14.320 Bill Gates, Satan, you know, tomato, tomato.

00:47:16.300 I didn't hear, like corporate needs you

00:47:17.800 to show the difference between these two structures.

00:47:19.480 It's the same picture.

00:47:20.580 Yeah, exactly.

00:47:21.240 So just to be clear, we're not a fan,

00:47:23.340 but it matters with the character of God.

00:47:25.240 We're believing, no, the pie can grow,

00:47:27.080 that water is a renewable, it's not a finite resource

00:47:30.740 and that God baked that into the pie.

00:47:33.440 We can garden the desert.

00:47:34.200 That it's going to be renewed.

00:47:35.360 And not just can we have more water

00:47:38.040 because it's not finite,

00:47:39.100 that water, just like fossil fuels, right?

00:47:41.160 If you're old earth and, oh, fossil fuels,

00:47:42.900 we only have this many

00:47:43.640 because it takes this many millions of years to produce.

00:47:46.100 If it's 6,000 years,

00:47:48.080 then fossil fuels are being renewed year by year.

00:47:52.380 So one, it breaks the overpopulation myth

00:47:55.740 and it is a myth.

00:47:57.020 And it's a sinister demonic myth

00:47:58.720 that tries to get people to doubt the character of God

00:48:01.160 and to disobey one of his clearest commands.

00:48:03.220 It's one that's taken root more powerfully in culture

00:48:05.360 than many other myths.

00:48:06.640 Yes.

00:48:07.180 So all this matters for the sake of the character of God.

00:48:10.160 It's not just fun, although it's very fun

00:48:12.360 and we'll get there in a moment,

00:48:13.420 but it matters as the character of God.

00:48:14.840 What kind of God is he capricious?

00:48:16.140 What kind of God are we talking about?

00:48:18.220 Does he command his children?

00:48:21.160 Is he like Pharaoh?

00:48:22.000 Is God like Pharaoh? 0.92

00:48:22.820 He commands bricks, but gives no straw?

00:48:25.060 Or is he a benevolent God?

00:48:27.460 And the world, even under the curse of sin,

00:48:30.000 is still a magical, wonderful, generous world

00:48:34.420 that resources us with everything we need for obedience.

00:48:38.280 Ben.

00:48:38.360 Yeah, I was gonna try to frame

00:48:40.320 how this connects to hollow earth

00:48:42.380 in a way that has helped me conceptualize of it.

00:48:46.300 So if you take the medieval model too far, then you'll run into this problem where once you go

00:48:52.480 below the surface of the world, there's nothing good. Their idea was that the curse goes only so

00:48:58.700 far as concerns man. So it stops at the boundary of the moon. The light side of the moon is the

00:49:03.740 last cursed thing that we can see. And everything beyond it does not feel the effect of the curse.

00:49:09.620 It's in no need of redemption because it has always only ever been holy. And it's heaven.

00:49:15.640 And so as you descend, the reason to them that the earth was the center of the universe is not

00:49:20.020 because they were narcissistic, is because the earth was the heaviest thing because it was weighed

00:49:24.300 down by sin. So it sits at the center like a bowling ball on a trampoline that takes away all

00:49:30.620 the fun from everything else. And so as you go to the center of the earth, you get further and

00:49:35.520 further and further away from holiness and closer to pure corruption. That's why Dante has Satan

00:49:41.060 sitting at the bottom of hell,

00:49:42.740 which is the very center of the earth.

00:49:44.320 The pit.

00:49:44.780 Because that is the worst place

00:49:46.880 that you could ever possibly be.

00:49:48.820 And I think that they were wrong to think that.

00:49:51.260 I think that, first of all, I love that model.

00:49:54.300 And I think it's just beautiful.

00:49:55.880 But I think that they took it too far

00:49:57.480 when they say that once you descend to the surface,

00:49:59.800 it's only ever bad.

00:50:01.220 There's nothing redeemable.

00:50:02.480 There's nothing good.

00:50:03.400 Descend beneath the surface.

00:50:04.680 Right.

00:50:05.000 Once you descend beneath the surface,

00:50:06.680 it won't even be redeemed.

00:50:08.380 It's not worth redeeming.

00:50:09.720 We know that that's not true

00:50:10.800 because Sheol used to contain a paradise. 0.97

00:50:13.880 Right.

00:50:14.200 We know that under the world is goodness,

00:50:16.880 that there's still light,

00:50:18.140 that it's worthy of redemption as well.

00:50:20.580 And so that connects to the-

00:50:22.660 That the center of the earth,

00:50:23.640 what you're arguing is both in a metaphorical,

00:50:25.620 spiritual sense, but also a literal sense

00:50:27.240 that the center of the earth is exactly like the surface,

00:50:30.520 that there's both good and bad.

00:50:32.180 Right.

00:50:32.420 It's not either or. 0.79

00:50:34.060 So in the center, you have Abraham's bosom, 0.68

00:50:36.120 but then you also have Tardis. 0.91

00:50:37.620 Yeah. And so Sheol will eventually be thrown into the lake of fire. And I don't fully understand 0.95

00:50:42.800 how the mechanics of that will work. But what I do know is that Christ's lordship will be

00:50:47.460 proclaimed from the river to the ends of the earth. And there's nothing that makes me believe

00:50:51.740 that that doesn't include underneath the surface. So with that in mind and knowing that God's not

00:50:57.700 capricious, there must be things in the earth that can help man in obeying God and in realizing

00:51:05.320 in Christ's lordship as it concerns him.

00:51:09.180 And this same theological principle,

00:51:10.840 and we're starting with a theological principle

00:51:12.400 and then getting to physical and literal applications.

00:51:15.540 But the same theological principle that you're espousing

00:51:18.320 works for what's beneath the earth.

00:51:19.860 It also works from what's above.

00:51:21.820 And the same way that we're gonna say certain minerals

00:51:24.040 and certain products and things like that

00:51:25.380 in the primary waters, we're gonna hang our hat.

00:51:27.700 But within the earth, under the earth,

00:51:29.820 that there are things that are necessary

00:51:31.420 and good and benevolent under the earth.

00:51:33.540 likewise, who is to say that there aren't certain meteorites with trillions of dollars,

00:51:39.700 and this has actually been proven, but trillions of dollars worth of resources in terms of

00:51:43.700 minerals and certain metals, precious metals that we don't have on earth that are different

00:51:48.660 densities, that you can make different things. Think about this, you know, you have stone age

00:51:52.940 and then, you know, bronze age or, you know, and then iron and these kinds of things. And with each

00:51:58.100 of these discoveries, you have new worlds, new civilizations. You have, it's like turning a

00:52:03.020 whole chapter in the story of humanity based off of technological discovery that if you boil it

00:52:07.680 down to the simplest form is substance. They discovered a new substance. Like even the tower

00:52:12.240 of Babel, you have a technological innovation, namely the brick, right? We've discovered the

00:52:19.040 cutting edge technological advancement, you know, the brick. We can build a tower to the heavens.

00:52:23.400 And I think there was probably a lot more going on than just bricks, but that was part of it.

00:52:26.680 It's more than that, but not less. And then later on, you know, stone, stone age, fire,

00:52:31.100 wheel all this and then even now you say well we're beyond that now no we're not uh we're in

00:52:35.860 the silicon age it's still a substance and it's a substance it can be divided in a certain way

00:52:41.160 razor thin with certain flexible properties but also durability that allows for um uh your phone

00:52:48.240 in your pocket and and who's to say silicon is the end it's not well we tend to conceive of the

00:52:53.540 next advance as a better of what we currently have so people tend to think of the next advance

00:52:59.540 in travel to be a better horse

00:53:01.500 and buggy. They couldn't conceive 1.00

00:53:03.740 of an internal combustion

00:53:05.880 engine. So we're

00:53:07.660 not just talking about better silicon chip. The next

00:53:09.600 thing, it's difficult to conceive of it

00:53:11.440 because we haven't made the necessary

00:53:13.520 technological discovery, the glory that

00:53:15.520 got hid somewhere down in the

00:53:17.500 depths or up in a meteor.

00:53:19.480 And the next one,

00:53:21.820 who's to say that it might not

00:53:23.340 take us the same

00:53:25.360 leap that computing took us from?

00:53:27.220 Because all we've been doing for several decades

00:53:29.440 at this point, but still less than 100 years.

00:53:31.640 But, you know, it's a relatively short span of time.

00:53:33.760 But all we've been doing is just better

00:53:36.440 and better applications of silicon.

00:53:38.100 Doubling the computing power at a predictable rate.

00:53:40.680 We've been turning the page,

00:53:42.020 but I'm talking about turning the chapter.

00:53:43.660 Yeah, a new chapter altogether.

00:53:45.460 This, can I introduce the water issue here?

00:53:48.420 Okay, so the story, the materialist story of the earth

00:53:51.160 is just this very long, horrific kind of formation

00:53:54.960 over a long, long, long period of time

00:53:56.800 as dust and rocks and all this stuff in space

00:53:59.960 coalesces into the earth

00:54:01.140 and then gets hot enough from its density.

00:54:03.180 And then, well, where'd all the water come from eventually?

00:54:06.160 So that the goo could eventually make people

00:54:08.360 that would then think about how the goo made people,

00:54:10.880 really, you know, strange.

00:54:12.800 And the idea that they've come up with

00:54:15.280 over, again, needing billions and billions of years

00:54:18.420 is that most of it came from outer space,

00:54:21.840 that it came from impacts from celestial bodies

00:54:25.920 that brought water with them

00:54:27.860 or materials that in the process of striking the earth,

00:54:31.060 hydrogen and oxygen became the oceans.

00:54:34.680 And that this was a vast amount of time

00:54:36.600 that it took for this to take place.

00:54:38.760 And that therefore the only water that's on earth

00:54:42.280 is the water that we already have,

00:54:43.620 unless we get more meteors,

00:54:44.680 but this happens very slowly.

00:54:46.140 And that all we have is the hydrological cycle

00:54:48.760 where water evaporates into the clouds,

00:54:51.580 rains down, goes into aquifers, rivers,

00:54:53.700 goes into the ocean, evaporates out.

00:54:56.020 The thing you learned in elementary school.

00:54:57.880 So water is the same water since the very beginning.

00:55:01.500 So even from a young earth conception,

00:55:03.080 which we would hold to,

00:55:03.940 all of your water that you're drinking

00:55:05.300 is 6,000 years old and it's recycled.

00:55:08.020 And that's all there is.

00:55:08.720 It's finite and old, recycled water.

00:55:11.100 And the vast majority of it is salinated

00:55:12.720 and not drinkable without desalination.

00:55:14.780 The vast majority.

00:55:16.200 There's no perfect efficiency.

00:55:18.600 We live in a cursed world.

00:55:19.580 So with every recycling, you're losing some.

00:55:22.620 There's degradation.

00:55:23.700 and loss. Exactly. So it's finite. We're losing some. That's where, you know, guys would, you

00:55:27.740 know, we'll say water is the most precious and scarce resource. And it's all this fear mongering

00:55:32.200 Mad Max kind of scenario and overpopulation myth, you know, and this is why we need euthanasia. 0.57

00:55:37.320 This is why we need abortion. This is why you shouldn't have kids. This is why you should get 0.68

00:55:40.660 a vasectomy when you're 20. This is like, I mean, it's, we're talking about demonic people with 0.58

00:55:44.540 demonic ideas, but they're basing it like one of the, is on a scare tactic, right? Where do their

00:55:50.340 ideas actually find their power their leverage to where people would buy into it and do these

00:55:55.220 you know actually believe the bill gates of the world uh well that by convincing everyone that

00:56:00.640 it's scarce that it's finite you know if we have more people then uh you won't have water to drink

00:56:04.920 yeah um and primary water theory so so my point is there is actually an incentive from uh wicked

00:56:11.220 people in high places of power the regime trash world whatever you want to call them the nephilim 0.92

00:56:16.880 right, the DMTers, you know, the communers with devils. These people actually have a vested 0.97

00:56:22.060 interest, right? When you're judging conspiracies, right? Because number one, we found out in the

00:56:27.840 last three years, and some of us, you know, already knew, but even the normies are waking

00:56:31.540 up and realizing the last three years that a lot of things that were called conspiracies were

00:56:35.300 actually true. Now that said, that doesn't mean that every conspiracy is true. There are such a

00:56:39.280 thing as things that are just not true. But when I'm trying to gauge, even from like a pastoral

00:56:44.240 standpoint, when I'm dealing with someone and they're saying, I'm doubting this, I'm suspicious

00:56:47.680 of blank. One of the first questions I ask is, okay, so who's promoting blank? And would this

00:56:54.300 person or group of individuals who are promoting blank, can we determine, just like solving a

00:57:00.780 crime, a detective, can we determine motive? Would they have a vested interest if blank was

00:57:06.740 believed by the masses? Would that somehow serve them? Would they be given more power? Would they

00:57:12.520 be given this would they be given and the answer is an emphatic yes and so all that so primary

00:57:17.260 water theory it's that uh it's going against um the the consensus that we've had for a very long

00:57:23.340 time the hydrological cycle that it's the same water it's a limited resource and it's going up

00:57:28.160 in the clouds and coming back down and and like you said ben that most of it is undrinkable even

00:57:32.900 with filtration systems and things like that and even fresh water that is drinkable um it may not

00:57:38.340 be saline like water in the Pacific Ocean, but this is something that people don't consider.

00:57:43.040 It's not just chemicals and human corruption through pollution and certain plastics and

00:57:48.260 things like that, but even water that is pure coming from a babbling brook or in a natural

00:57:55.820 river is still 6,000-year-old surface water since the beginning that has been flowing

00:58:01.500 over rocks and minerals and vegetation and all these different things, not just plastics,

00:58:05.840 man-made components, but even natural things, picking up fluoride and picking up certain

00:58:10.900 minerals and certain components, some of them, minerals may be good for you, but some of them

00:58:15.080 may be bad for you. And for the same reason that when you drink, you don't go out in the backyard

00:58:19.460 and grab a handful of dirt and put it in your water, right? So 6,000 years of running over

00:58:24.860 mountains, running underground, running over this, running over that, running over oil, running over,

00:58:29.500 you know, all these different things that aren't necessarily advantageous to put in your body.

00:58:33.540 But what if, two big components here, what if water wasn't scarce, but renewable, that deep within the earth, through seismic shifts, pressure, heat, that hydrogen, oxygen, water was actually being made, and rather quickly, and there were whole oceans of freshwater, not saltwater, but freshwater oceans beneath the surface.

00:58:55.820 and it's not just that there's more water,

00:58:59.120 two big components.

00:59:00.140 There's more water than we know of

00:59:01.880 and it's new water, more and new.

00:59:06.600 And what I mean by that, the new factor

00:59:08.420 is that if we could access it,

00:59:12.060 where it doesn't, we don't have to wait a thousand years

00:59:14.220 for it to make its way to the surface

00:59:15.720 and it's picked up all these different minerals

00:59:17.580 and different components and chemicals

00:59:18.860 and all the other stuff,

00:59:20.040 even if there was no human pollution.

00:59:23.680 What if we could get water that's only even been in existence?

00:59:28.280 It was made last year.

00:59:31.000 It's new water.

00:59:32.640 It's fresh water.

00:59:34.280 The freshest water you've ever tasted.

00:59:36.600 Yeah, it's got that new water.

00:59:37.880 It's got that new water energy to this.

00:59:40.320 Yeah, and what would that mean?

00:59:42.680 So we want to talk about three components.

00:59:45.040 Restoration of, and we want to talk about the lost city of Atlantis.

00:59:48.240 Restoration, beautifying the earth.

00:59:49.900 if we have whole oceans, underground oceans,

00:59:54.780 freshwater oceans, and it's newer water,

00:59:57.440 and that we could actualize those.

00:59:59.540 Like what if the church of Jesus Christ,

01:00:02.520 his hands and feet on earth,

01:00:04.140 with everything that we do in terms of, you know,

01:00:06.680 preaching the gospel, evangelism, planting churches,

01:00:09.120 but then also all of Christ for all of life,

01:00:12.220 not just in church life, but every realm of life

01:00:14.560 in economics, in vocation, in markets,

01:00:17.180 in education, in medicine.

01:00:18.880 But what if also even in cultivation and greenery, what if it is our destiny by God's grace and through his power that we eradicate deserts?

01:00:29.980 The Sahara Desert is that maybe it takes a few hundred years, maybe it takes a few thousand.

01:00:36.340 But one day our descendants, our posterity and children's children would be reading history books about deserts because they're no more.

01:00:45.280 And they're reading it in a tropical paradise in the Sahara.

01:00:48.240 This used to be a desert, blah, blah, blah.

01:00:50.180 So re-beautifying the world,

01:00:52.680 also the application of what about other worlds?

01:00:55.060 Mars has polar ice caps.

01:00:57.060 And scientists, there's a consensus

01:00:58.420 that there's underwater oceans.

01:00:59.920 What if that can be actualized,

01:01:01.540 brought to the surface with certain drilling equipment?

01:01:04.100 But then the last thing is a fountain of youth, right?

01:01:07.120 So I think it's just such a fascinating story of, you know-

01:01:11.580 Ponce de Leon.

01:01:12.500 That's right, Florida guy, Florida man.

01:01:15.080 So if you could tell the story, Ben,

01:01:17.180 But then us say that I think he was right,

01:01:20.600 but what if it's not a specific locale?

01:01:22.760 What if the fountain of youth is beneath our feet,

01:01:24.780 now, albeit far beneath our feet, but everywhere,

01:01:28.140 and it's just getting to it,

01:01:30.260 and that this water that there's not just more of,

01:01:32.340 but it's newer water, healthier water.

01:01:34.360 What if that's the ticket,

01:01:35.820 not just medicine that comes with a cost-benefit analysis?

01:01:39.800 It's like, you take this pill,

01:01:42.140 you get better with this symptom,

01:01:43.300 but you develop this other one.

01:01:44.520 what if part of the way of getting back to longer lifespans

01:01:48.760 that we see not just in an antediluvian world

01:01:52.080 before the flood, but even after,

01:01:53.600 what if a lot of that has to do with water

01:01:56.360 and that the fountain of youth

01:01:57.380 in a very literal sense is real

01:01:59.420 and it's not just in one locale,

01:02:01.640 but it's everywhere and we just got to get there.

01:02:03.480 But story time.

01:02:05.280 Yeah, Juan Ponce de Leon.

01:02:07.140 This guy, so Spanish explorer, okay?

01:02:09.520 And he's a Christian man.

01:02:10.840 This is the height of Christendom. 0.98

01:02:12.360 They're trying to find new lands

01:02:13.720 that they can spread the gospel in

01:02:15.380 and share the greenification of the Lord Jesus Christ

01:02:18.460 like what you're talking about.

01:02:20.180 But one of Juan Ponce de Leon's primary driving motivations

01:02:23.980 behind his travels was finding the fountain of youth

01:02:27.440 because he believed that it existed.

01:02:29.960 And one has to then ask the question,

01:02:32.120 why did he believe that it existed?

01:02:34.600 And there's nothing where he wrote down in a diary like,

01:02:37.780 this is why I think that the fountain of youth exists.

01:02:40.300 But a natural reading of the man

01:02:42.420 and the times that he lived in would be he believed that there was a fountain of youth

01:02:45.900 because he believed what he said he believed, the gospel.

01:02:49.460 He believed that the church was the temple

01:02:52.440 and that the river of Christ was flowing out of the temple to water the entire world.

01:02:56.960 And that as it went, it got thicker and wider and deeper in it

01:02:59.560 and it enriched all the trees that were growing alongside of it.

01:03:02.920 And all the birds went and found nests in there.

01:03:06.060 Maybe he believed Isaiah 65.

01:03:08.280 Maybe he believed that the youth would die at 100.

01:03:10.040 And he wondered and asked himself, well, how could that possibly be?

01:03:14.100 Because they didn't have advanced medicine back then.

01:03:16.620 They didn't have the nanny state of medicine that we have now.

01:03:20.000 This basically just modern witchcraft, by the way, in an attempt to avoid death at any cost,

01:03:25.240 twisting God's arm and twisting nature into means that are completely contrary to itself

01:03:28.940 and to the living God, all in an attempt to avoid death for some and hasten death for others.

01:03:35.360 And still has a far cry.

01:03:36.920 And it still has failed.

01:03:37.820 Yeah, no one could say that modern medicine has got us to where we could, with a straight face, say the youth dies at 100.

01:03:44.220 Right.

01:03:44.840 And so then you have to ask, okay, well, maybe if that was the motivation, why Florida?

01:03:52.140 Why did he seem so keen and bullish on Florida and hopeful?

01:03:55.940 Well, it's because Florida has tons of springs.

01:03:59.220 It's the Lando Lakes.

01:04:00.420 That's your butter?

01:04:01.820 That's where it comes from.

01:04:02.960 It's the Lando Lakes in Florida.

01:04:04.500 And so he goes there and he finds all of these springs

01:04:06.780 and he's able to see like, well, maybe there is hope.

01:04:09.720 You know, he never found it.

01:04:11.200 He didn't, he wasn't immortal.

01:04:12.760 He died.

01:04:13.680 That we know of.

01:04:14.540 That we know of.

01:04:15.320 He could still be around, I guess.

01:04:16.520 That we know of.

01:04:17.080 That would.

01:04:17.620 I don't know.

01:04:18.240 I would actually.

01:04:18.900 In Nate Wilson's books, Ponce is still around.

01:04:22.040 Not a good guy.

01:04:23.360 Really?

01:04:23.640 But there was the turtle that he found that's immortal.

01:04:28.080 Transmortal turtle.

01:04:28.980 But I mean, this is actually not history.

01:04:30.420 This is Andy Wilson's Ashtown burial series.

01:04:32.000 There was a lot, there's a lot of religious connotations in the turtle as well.

01:04:35.080 But, and so now, you know, we have to then ask the question, why Florida?

01:04:41.480 And like I'm saying that he's finding these springs and things like that.

01:04:43.960 But then I think we should also go back and say, is this allowed?

01:04:49.120 Should we read Isaiah 65 and think, yes, literally, I want my son, son, son, son, son, son, son's daughter, sons to die at 100 and be considered a child?

01:04:59.460 because we know that if it's literal...

01:05:02.100 Or preferably to not die.

01:05:03.460 Well, to not die.

01:05:04.060 But if he does, it's like he's a young man.

01:05:06.700 Right.

01:05:07.320 Because if it's literal,

01:05:08.300 we know that that's not the glorified state

01:05:10.000 because people are dying.

01:05:11.120 Exactly.

01:05:11.760 Stop there because people need to...

01:05:13.940 A lot of people are not familiar with...

01:05:15.780 So here's the deal.

01:05:17.620 Some of the listeners won't like this.

01:05:19.720 Hear me.

01:05:20.280 I'm saying this humbly.

01:05:21.440 I don't want to turn you off

01:05:22.240 because I want you to listen to this.

01:05:23.620 And if your view is that Jesus is going to come back,

01:05:26.020 most people who would profess to be followers of Christ, and many of you listening really are,

01:05:31.920 it's not just a mere profession, but by God's grace, he saved you. You've been born again.

01:05:35.680 You are a Christian and we thank God for you. And right now, the dominant view of end times

01:05:40.540 eschatology for Christians today in the West, because of certain things like dispensationalism

01:05:45.840 and Darby and these things that are relatively new theological ideas in the last 150 years,

01:05:50.540 most people, there's two big beliefs. They think that Jesus is coming back relatively soon.

01:05:56.020 and a lot of people believe this generation, right?

01:06:00.100 We're in the end times.

01:06:01.240 He's coming back next Thursday, so relatively soon

01:06:03.660 and the second component is they believe

01:06:05.580 that God has destined in scripture

01:06:08.120 that things must become progressively worse

01:06:10.140 until he arrives.

01:06:11.660 So things are going to get worse

01:06:13.380 and we don't have much time left.

01:06:17.160 He's coming back soon and I understand that

01:06:19.600 and if that's your view,

01:06:20.840 we're glad to have you along for the ride

01:06:22.480 and we don't wanna throw shade on that view.

01:06:24.520 We wanna be respectful.

01:06:26.020 But there are other astrological views.

01:06:29.440 And so for the three of us, for instance,

01:06:31.320 and I know this will sound foreign to some of you,

01:06:33.680 but we would prescribe to what's known as post-millennialism.

01:06:36.720 And so as our astrological end time view,

01:06:39.720 which nobody knows that the day or the hour, no man.

01:06:43.040 But in general, we would assert that Christ,

01:06:46.360 his return is likely still off in our distant future.

01:06:52.580 Long way.

01:06:53.080 And to the point where we would argue that it's possible,

01:06:57.240 again, not a definitive claim,

01:06:58.820 but it's possible that our future generations

01:07:01.580 would be watching the recording of this show

01:07:04.340 and say, oh, these are some of the early church fathers.

01:07:07.480 That people would read Lewis and Athanasius and Calvin

01:07:11.800 and say, which one came first again?

01:07:14.860 Even though they're, at least in the case of Augustine

01:07:18.280 and Calvin are separated by a thousand years,

01:07:21.140 1,100. But they would say, it's 1,100 years. That's a moot point. So we're talking, it could

01:07:28.240 be 10,000 years. We're not saying it is. No man knows the day or the hour. But Jesus could tell

01:07:33.300 every single generation for the past 2,000 years of church history thought that Jesus was going to

01:07:37.180 return in their lifetime. And they've all been wrong. Second component of post-millennialism is

01:07:41.700 one, the return of Christ could be very distant. Two, that things will not get worse and worse,

01:07:46.120 but actually they'll get progressively better. And that they're supposed to, because it's a

01:07:50.240 proof of Christ's triumph, that by the death and resurrection and ascension of Christ,

01:07:56.080 that the last thing he said to his disciples before his ascension is all authority on earth,

01:08:00.900 not just 17th dimension authority, but all authority on earth and in heaven has been given

01:08:05.540 to me. And that he commissioned his disciples to disciple the nations, to preach, to baptize,

01:08:12.580 but also to teach them to obey all of his commands. And we believe that God's commandments

01:08:18.280 have application in every realm of human society and life, and that as we learn to be obedient

01:08:25.600 disciples, as the world is evangelized, and as we are obedient to Christ's commands in every realm

01:08:31.240 of life, including medicine, including education, including media, including this, including that,

01:08:36.000 and the other, that the world will progressively get better. Now, here's the deal. Think of stocks.

01:08:42.560 The post-millennial is not saying that things won't ever get better. Stocks, we're saying,

01:08:45.840 okay, if it's a good stock, the general trend in the long run will be upward, although there are

01:08:50.880 spikes and dips, and some of those dips can be significant along the way. So all three of us,

01:08:56.640 just for the record, we're not ostriches with our heads in the stand. If you're saying, well,

01:09:02.120 things seem pretty bad right now, we're going to say, uh-huh, yeah, we agree. We're in a hell of

01:09:06.720 a dip. We're in quite the dip right now. The lizard people are ruling the world. We're on board

01:09:11.660 with a lot of that kind of stuff.

01:09:12.960 Yeah, so we're in a big dip,

01:09:14.360 but we're saying that the dip

01:09:16.040 is not all there is until Christ's return.

01:09:18.200 We're saying by his grace,

01:09:19.840 and it's not apart from Christ,

01:09:20.940 but through Christ,

01:09:21.960 the church empowered by Christ

01:09:23.960 can get out of the dip

01:09:25.080 and that this is a dip

01:09:26.260 and it may be a 500-year dip.

01:09:27.820 I mean, I would say that we're right now

01:09:29.540 in a 300-year dip.

01:09:30.700 The Dark Ages, great.

01:09:32.380 Wonderful. 0.99

01:09:32.800 The Enlightenment, trash. 0.99

01:09:34.780 The Enlightenment is the dip, right? 1.00

01:09:36.900 And they've been lying to you

01:09:37.740 because the victors get to write the history books.

01:09:39.520 So we've been in a dip for a long time

01:09:41.500 denying God, rebelling against Christ. But we believe that not just will Christ return and get

01:09:46.660 us out of the dip, but Christ through his church as he's ruling in heaven with authority in heaven

01:09:51.280 and on earth will get us out of the dip. And a long time from now, it could be hundreds of years,

01:09:57.520 it could be thousands of years that things can change, that the whole earth could be beautified.

01:10:01.620 And so back to Isaiah 65, the point is Isaiah 65, we don't believe is giving a description

01:10:07.020 of the new heavens and new earth after Christ returns

01:10:10.340 because here's the sticking point, people still die.

01:10:13.780 People are dying.

01:10:14.380 Right, in heaven, people don't die

01:10:15.860 because the last,

01:10:17.460 and here's the other dispensational problem,

01:10:19.560 death is not the first of Jesus' enemies to conquer.

01:10:21.700 He doesn't return and then conquer death

01:10:23.220 and then set the world right.

01:10:24.460 No, the Bible says in 1 Corinthians 15,

01:10:26.480 very clearly that death is the final enemy

01:10:28.540 for Christ to defeat.

01:10:29.680 So we believe that many enemies,

01:10:32.340 that the enemy of Marxism, the enemy of communism,

01:10:35.120 the enemy of the Clintons, the enemy of, you know, like all these different will be defeated

01:10:40.320 progressively at different stages as the church continues to grow and strengthen influence and

01:10:44.840 power. And then lastly, upon Christ's physical final return, he'll defeat death. So the nations,

01:10:52.420 Isaiah 65 gives us a description where Christ has not yet returned because death is still happening.

01:10:57.280 It's not yet been defeated, but the nations no longer know war and lifespans have been linked.

01:11:02.520 no one any longer

01:11:04.540 dies in infancy. That means abortion 0.95

01:11:06.380 has been completely eradicated, and

01:11:08.480 also certain infant diseases

01:11:10.440 have been eradicated, and the

01:11:12.500 youth dies at 100, where if somebody

01:11:14.460 dies at 100 years old, you would look

01:11:16.440 at him and say, I'm so sorry to

01:11:18.400 his family for your loss. I can't believe he

01:11:20.360 was just a kid.

01:11:22.480 And all this before Christ's final

01:11:24.480 return, in our distant future,

01:11:26.480 currently in a dip, but the overall trajectory

01:11:28.660 being moving forward. So primary

01:11:30.360 water.

01:11:32.520 Well, and so it is worth, I think, exploring whether that's possible, theologically speaking,

01:11:39.520 if we can actually have people die at 100 and it be considered very young. And the answer is yes.

01:11:44.980 But a lot of objection that I hear is people say, well, in Genesis, God says their years will be

01:11:50.160 limited to 120. And then after the flood, you see a steady degradation of lifespan that eventually

01:11:57.660 you know, goes down to 120.

01:11:59.720 By the way, after like 20 generations after the flood

01:12:02.580 is only that, so is Christ really that bad?

01:12:05.760 Or is God really that bad at fulfilling his word?

01:12:07.960 Right.

01:12:08.180 No, what he's doing is he's prophesying

01:12:10.240 the time of the flood.

01:12:11.360 Right, it was 120 years.

01:12:12.920 Until the flood.

01:12:13.720 Until the flood.

01:12:14.320 And then the flood comes and it's really fascinating

01:12:17.440 how after the flood, once the waters recede

01:12:20.440 back into the earth, you have lifespans steadily decline.

01:12:25.120 Yep, coincidence.

01:12:26.180 With no exception.

01:12:27.080 I think not. So the water goes under the earth, this fresh new water, the great springs,

01:12:32.020 and then people start living shorter and shorter lives.

01:12:34.420 And it's interesting how it also, let's just assume that this is right. Let's suspend any

01:12:39.180 disbelief and say that primary water is legit.

01:12:41.220 100%.

01:12:41.660 And that primary water was one of the major mechanisms that God used to flood the world

01:12:45.460 in Genesis. The symbolism itself is striking. How you have a mankind that hates its God and

01:12:53.760 therefore hates itself because the fool says in his heart, there is no God and the fool is the 1.00

01:12:58.680 one that loves death. And so using the tool that was given to man to enliven them, God uses that 1.00

01:13:07.200 same tool to kill and end that wicked line in the same way that Christ took death and used death to

01:13:15.240 kill death. In the same way that baptism then is a sign both of judgment and of salvation in that

01:13:21.580 we're saved through the waters of death that swallow Pharaoh's armies, that swallow the world.

01:13:28.180 We're saved from the floods. Our Lord is seated high over the floods, Psalm 93.

01:13:32.660 He rides on the waves, but we're saved through them. We're in the ark of Christ. The world is

01:13:39.220 deluged and drowned. The water represents death and judgment, but it also represents,

01:13:44.080 it's not just that we're saved through them, but then the positive application is that same water

01:13:47.360 that is judgment and death for some

01:13:49.100 is the same water that is cleansing and life for others.

01:13:53.180 The temple in Ezekiel is figured

01:13:57.480 as having water flowing out over its threshold

01:14:00.040 into a great river that grows deeper

01:14:01.780 as it goes out, goes forth.

01:14:04.620 Ezekiel 47.

01:14:05.440 And creates essentially an oasis in life.

01:14:08.200 So these pictures,

01:14:10.060 biblical symbols are not simple or one dimensional.

01:14:13.880 And often what you'll find is that the same taste 0.89

01:14:16.960 that to the saint, his life is death to the unbeliever. 0.95

01:14:21.040 Again, Lewis picked this up in his apple 1.00

01:14:23.380 that came from the tree in the garden

01:14:24.740 in The Magician's Nephew, 1.00

01:14:27.200 that Jadis, the wicked queen from Charn, 0.99

01:14:31.560 took the fruit without permission and tasted it. 1.00

01:14:35.400 And it would forever,

01:14:36.120 the smell of it would keep her from Narnia for a hundred years.

01:14:39.060 That's how Aslan protected Narnia.

01:14:41.020 But for those who take it with permission,

01:14:44.820 rightly it's life and it smells greater than any other fruit that got so god's symbols in the world

01:14:51.040 often look like this diggery his mom is brought back she's brought back from it yeah and and at

01:14:56.040 the end of the day what we're saying with this primary water idea to actually define what it is

01:15:01.280 again the idea that water is being created deep in the earth right from magmatic processes and

01:15:07.800 just that god made it would create water it comes up through tectonic fissures the evidence for this

01:15:12.720 manifold. We see tectonic fissures are often filled with fresh water. We find springs where

01:15:19.280 they absolutely shouldn't be according to the local rainfall that continue for centuries even,

01:15:24.800 sometimes millennia at a constant rate of fresh water coming out of the ground, regardless of

01:15:30.100 what's happening in the atmosphere or the rains. We see springs coming out of mountaintops when

01:15:35.360 you would think that a spring would, if the basin above it was significant enough to capture that

01:15:41.280 water. And then it could go under the ground in an aquifer and come out later, like an artesian

01:15:46.200 well type of situation. Or mountain springs that are way above the water table of the local area.

01:15:50.120 Yeah, we're seeing them 4,000 meters above ground level where there's no, the water tables thousands

01:15:55.580 of meters below. And we've got freshwater springs constantly flowing out of mountaintops.

01:16:01.600 There's evidence after evidence after evidence like this and bringing it all together. What I

01:16:07.320 if I had to do a little forecasting, say what might be, well, let's say that the leaven leavens

01:16:14.060 the lump. And over the next, you know, let's just say that, you know, God said that he delights in

01:16:20.560 the old Testament to show his, his love and faithfulness to the thousandth generation of

01:16:24.080 those who love him. 40 year generation, 40,000 years. That was about, I don't know, 4,000 years

01:16:29.220 ago when that promise was spoken. So let's say 36,000 over the next 36,000 years, God's faithfulness

01:16:35.760 continues to be shown to his people in the, the nations are converted and the, all of the ends of

01:16:41.000 the earth, every family, as the Psalms say, you know, confesses the lordship of Christ. They come

01:16:45.240 to the mountain, Isaiah 2, to be instructed in God's law. And the, you know, we're starting to

01:16:50.100 see some of these things. The means that God appoints are not always just purely deus ex machina,

01:16:57.900 ghost in the machine, inner plot interventions, where all of a sudden God's like, and everyone's

01:17:03.580 lifespan is now a hundred years by magic. Right. He loves to use means and to raise his children

01:17:09.540 to maturity, to end up being the vehicle to those means. This is again, the hobbit's journey from

01:17:15.040 their immaturity to their full maturity in the Lord of the Rings, where they grow. It's the age

01:17:20.460 of men, men coming into their fullness, going into the next age with the return of the king and 0.83

01:17:25.680 the age of the elves ending. What if God was maturing his people? And as we'd search out the

01:17:31.760 mysteries, we discover the means by which through his physical means, lifespans can be increased,

01:17:39.300 not in an alchemical, we're going to talk about pharmakeia and functional witchcraft, but in,

01:17:45.800 by actually going with the grain of creation as God made it instead of fighting against the grain

01:17:50.500 of creation. And who's to say, who's to say given all of the imagery and metaphor and myth and

01:17:56.560 legend and even scripture as well of the life-giving properties of water combined with

01:18:01.700 this anti-humanist anti-materialist theory who's to say it doesn't have something to do with it

01:18:08.560 right is that what we're saying that's what we're saying that was beautiful beautifully said so this

01:18:13.040 episode recap just to remind you guys hollow earth theory confirmed yeah but hollow earth theory

01:18:20.120 maybe not exactly the way that bird and some of the later components said it you know uh journey

01:18:24.260 to the center of the earth,

01:18:25.580 but different spheres, porous,

01:18:28.680 with support, shock kind of system,

01:18:30.540 with massive caverns, not five miles down,

01:18:33.940 but beneath the crust, 150, 200, 300, 400 miles down,

01:18:39.240 massive caverns with support, with water,

01:18:43.080 with vegetation and with heat sources in different ways.

01:18:46.800 And we didn't have time to conceptualize

01:18:48.000 how that would happen without a sun,

01:18:49.340 but heat sources and sources of light

01:18:51.440 sustaining even wildlife and even massive creatures

01:18:55.080 like dragons, like sea serpents.

01:18:58.480 And then beyond that,

01:18:59.880 that gets us down there with the water.

01:19:02.020 Water not being finite, but being made

01:19:04.380 and new, healthier for you.

01:19:08.000 And this three, you know, very practical,

01:19:10.840 and there's more that could be said,

01:19:11.780 but three practical applications.

01:19:13.300 One would be restoring places here,

01:19:16.000 like Atlantis, which we didn't have time to get into it, 0.92

01:19:18.520 but located in the Sahara Desert, full sin.

01:19:21.200 See episode one of season one of Haunted Cosmos. 0.74

01:19:23.500 We'll talk about the Rakat structure, Atlantis.

01:19:26.320 The eye of the Sahara. 0.94

01:19:27.020 Available.

01:19:27.500 It's called High Strangeness on the High Seas.

01:19:29.220 Yes.

01:19:29.420 There you go.

01:19:29.720 Tube everywhere.

01:19:30.540 But Atlantis, a very solid argument to be made

01:19:33.300 that it's actually located in the Sahara Desert

01:19:35.880 and that that could actually be restored.

01:19:38.100 So Atlantis reaching back to its zenith,

01:19:41.540 but with good and not evil.

01:19:43.280 That we could drill down and access primary water

01:19:47.160 deep in the earth and bring it up

01:19:49.780 and do another motif of scripture

01:19:52.180 is that the deserts would become gardens.

01:19:54.580 Right.

01:19:55.040 That we would greenify the world 0.93

01:19:56.780 and be able to see the Sahara garden

01:19:59.300 and be able to see Utah become something

01:20:01.960 other than a salt lick.

01:20:03.940 Right.

01:20:04.480 In a clay.

01:20:05.180 So beautifying the earth is one application

01:20:06.960 and then the potential of there being primary water

01:20:09.120 on other planets, Mars being one example

01:20:10.820 and beautifying other places.

01:20:12.580 And then lastly, primary water

01:20:14.220 and how it would affect just humanity.

01:20:15.960 There's just a few applications.

01:20:18.320 There's far more.

01:20:18.980 but how it could affect humanity and our health

01:20:21.660 and elongating lifespans.

01:20:23.480 That was our episode.

01:20:24.800 Hope you liked it and tune in next time.

01:20:26.780 Real quick, right here at the end,

01:20:27.840 I just wanted to remind you to become a member

01:20:29.700 at patreon.com forward slash right response ministries.

01:20:34.580 Exclusively for our Patreon members,

01:20:36.400 we have all 10 episodes, early access, ad free.

01:20:41.100 Some of my favorite episodes to be looking forward to

01:20:43.580 is episodes that deal with Bigfoot or fairies

01:20:46.580 or ghosts or angels or giants

01:20:49.200 or particularly our episode on witches.

01:20:52.300 If you wanna watch these episodes now

01:20:54.000 and you wanna watch them without any ads,

01:20:56.280 then you've gotta join us by becoming a member

01:20:58.840 at patreon.com forward slash Right Response Ministries.

The NXR Podcast - April 12, 2024

THE FRIDAY SPECIAL - Hollow Earth ｜ The Last Living Dragons & Primary Water w Haunted Cosmos

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript