The NXR Podcast - THE FRIDAY SPECIAL - Jehovah's Witnesses with Cultish

00:00:00.000 Founded in the late 19th century by Charles Taze Russell,

00:00:04.040 Jehovah's Witnesses emerged from the Bible student movement

00:00:07.260 and underwent significant organizational and doctrinal development

00:00:12.240 under the leadership of Joseph F. Rutherford.

00:00:17.000 The organizational structure of Jehovah's Witnesses is highly centralized,

00:00:21.760 with congregations worldwide being overseen by a governing body headquartered in New York.

00:00:27.920 Jehovah's Witnesses reject the doctrine of the Trinity,

00:00:31.220 teaching that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, but not part of a triune Godhead.

00:00:37.340 They view Jesus as a separate being created by Jehovah and subordinate to Him.

00:00:43.600 Jehovah's Witnesses are perhaps most commonly known for their active evangelism,

00:00:49.160 which often involves going door to door to share their beliefs and literature with others.

00:00:55.280 Although Jehovah's Witnesses have faced criticism and controversy over various organizational practices such as their stance on issues such as blood transfusions, disfellowshipping, and shunning, they continue to maintain a significant presence as a religious group with millions of adherents around the world.

00:01:18.880 all right here we are this is our 10th and final episode of this series covering lots of different

00:01:30.720 false religions and cults and this episode is on jehovah's witnesses so um jeremiah why don't you

00:01:38.340 just start us off jehovah's witness if you want to get into some of the key doctrines the big thing

00:01:43.340 that we're covering in all these episodes is key doctrines, the big red flags, where it differs

00:01:50.900 from Orthodox Christian faith in the Bible, but then also we're getting into not just the doctrine,

00:01:56.260 but some of the history. Yes. Yeah. In fact, I think the best way to open this up is to take,

00:02:02.080 so some of you may, who are in your audience may have followed us for a while. So I want to take

00:02:07.300 you all down a memory lane to the infancy of cultish. This would have been, I'm going to take

00:02:12.920 you back to either 2018, the very beginning of 2019, when we did our first ever podcast on

00:02:19.900 Jehovah's Witnesses, and it was called Leah Remini and the Jehovah's Witnesses. So we talked in an

00:02:26.020 earlier episode in Scientology, we mentioned quite a bit Leah Remini from the King of Queens and Mike

00:02:31.140 Rinder, who was the ex-Scientologist, he was David Miscavige's right-hand person. They did this bonus

00:02:37.400 episode in their series on Jehovah's Witnesses. And I remember we did this response to it

00:02:44.680 because what was very interesting is that we did our show to really try and emulate what the late

00:02:52.300 Dr. Walter Martin did with giving a Christian answer, reasons for faith, and specifically to

00:02:58.460 engage the world of the cults. Because as much as there's emphasis to put missionaries in other

00:03:06.020 countries and in other areas of the world and hostile nations, in many ways, the cultist is

00:03:12.220 really the mission next door, the mission within your neighborhood. You're probably, you have

00:03:16.900 neighbors, I'm assuming that are Mormon, Jehovah's Witness, Christian science, like that's all in

00:03:22.560 close proximity. And again, that's more of a centralized hub in an area like Utah where you

00:03:26.400 live, Andrew. But the kingdom of the cult is, it's big leagues. You need to know what you believe

00:03:31.880 and why you believe it. 1.00

00:03:33.480 Most Christians would be twisted, 1.00

00:03:36.220 as Walter Martin would say, 1.00

00:03:37.180 into a doctrinal pretzel

00:03:38.380 by even a brand new 90-day wonder

00:03:41.100 coming out of the watchtower

00:03:42.360 because they are taught to understand

00:03:44.740 and to make arguments

00:03:46.320 that a lot of times Christians are not prepared for.

00:03:48.840 So you need to know what you believe,

00:03:51.460 but why you believe it,

00:03:52.940 and where the chapter and verse is,

00:03:54.580 and also understand why they believe it.

00:03:56.360 And when they say something,

00:03:58.140 what do they mean by that?

00:03:59.320 What do they mean when they're saying Jehovah?

00:04:01.020 that. So I want to take you to this episode that we did back in 20, around the beginning of 2019,

00:04:07.360 we did it because this show, and you could look at it, this is in our archives, we did it because

00:04:13.180 this is a show that was a very well-produced show, but it was done through a secular approach.

00:04:19.120 They're only kind of viewing it through the lens of the aftermath of the spiritual abuse and effect

00:04:26.640 that people felt from different topics within Jehovah's Witnesses that they will talk about.

00:04:31.020 But what's very interesting is at the very beginning of our episode, and also the very beginning of this television show that Leah Remini and Mike did, they played clips from this documentary that was produced by a Christian company called Jeremiah Films, which shows that there were Christian media agencies taking dominion over the media at that time.

00:04:52.600 And they produced this very excellent documentary called Witnesses of Jehovah.

00:04:56.540 You can view it on YouTube.

00:04:57.960 It's excellent.

00:04:58.880 They even interview ex-members of the governing body that we will talk about.

00:05:03.460 And what you end up seeing is that this secular show is borrowing from this Christian documentary to kind of give credence to their show.

00:05:13.880 And so in the same way, a lot of the secular modern-day approaches to cultism, they're only giving a band-aid to the aftermath of the effect.

00:05:24.140 because while there is a lot of hurt and spiritual abuse from some of the practices that we'll talk

00:05:29.120 about, all these practices, whether it's Jehovah's Witnesses or any other cult, these come about by

00:05:35.980 way of revelation from what they believe to be the true God, in this case from Jehovah. So if

00:05:42.620 you're dealing with Jehovah's Witnesses, there'd be someone that would be a notable ex-Jehovah's

00:05:47.180 Witness like Lloyd Evans, who is very outspoken against the Watchtower, but from best of my

00:05:52.200 theology still would be someone who would be an atheist agnostic. The majority of those who do 0.67

00:05:57.400 leave the cults, they do end up in that realm because it's kind of like, hey, you get out of

00:06:03.300 a crazy abusive marriage, you're not in a rush to set up an eHarmony profile, at least most of the

00:06:07.580 time. So there would be a similarity in that regard. So one of the areas, again, is that when

00:06:14.200 we talk about bad theology hurts people, this always comes about by way of revelation. In this

00:06:21.500 case, false revelation. So, what you will see as we kind of unpack some of the doctrines of

00:06:26.560 Jehovah's Witnesses, we're going to talk about the practices, but also it's in correlation to

00:06:31.340 who they believe their doctrine of God to believe. But it very much would be indicative of the

00:06:39.120 scripture where it says the sars of those who go after another God shall multiply. And that's what

00:06:44.520 you're really going to see as we unpack this episode. Man, that was good stuff. So, thinking

00:06:49.140 on a brief historical overview of Charles Taze Russell in the beginning of the Watchtower Tract

00:06:54.580 Society, which was first before that, the International Bible Students, I believe,

00:06:58.360 Association. We have to think of the timeframe in which this is being developed. And within

00:07:06.000 this timeframe of the Restorationist movement, we have someone who's not necessarily part of

00:07:10.200 the Restorationist movement, but this is where we see a lot of doomsday calculations, right?

00:07:14.080 We talked about this actually in the last episode, but here's one person specifically,

00:07:18.580 His name is William Miller. He started something called the Millerites. He was born in the late

00:07:24.240 1700s. Essentially, he took Daniel's prophecies and he tried to calculate them to a specific

00:07:31.340 date. I'm giving you a nutshell overview here. And that was supposed to occur in 1844. Jesus

00:07:36.880 Christ was going to return. He had thousands of followers, okay? Thousands. I think it was

00:07:43.560 upwards to maybe 60,000 followers who believed that the end of the world was going to be occurring

00:07:47.360 in 1844. Needless to say, we're sitting in these beautiful chairs. It didn't happen, right? This

00:07:53.460 was known as the Great Disappointment. After the Great Disappointment, we had two different

00:07:58.980 branches of belief that came from Millerites. We have the Seventh-day Adventists and another

00:08:03.720 Adventist belief, okay? This was profoundly shaping to young Charles Taze Russell. So Charles Taze

00:08:10.020 Russell was born in 1852, I believe, February 16th. Yep. And he was born in 1852. And he grew

00:08:18.860 up actually as a Presbyterian when he was young. However, his mother died when he was very young.

00:08:24.540 It was in 1861. So after that, he was just living with him and his father, right? And his father

00:08:31.360 had opened up a shop, a haydashery store where they would actually sew clothing and do things

00:08:36.380 of that nature. And little Charles began writing up contracts at a very young age. So he was a very

00:08:41.000 smart young man. Later at the age of 13, he left the Presbyterian church. He joined a

00:08:47.220 Congregationalist church. So he was eventually challenged by another friend later in his life,

00:08:54.380 late teenager years, on questions of creeds and the Christian historic faith. And eventually he

00:09:01.540 kind of lost his faith until he actually saw an Adventist preacher who had come and had not

00:09:08.900 necessarily like a revival, but went and was preaching somewhere. This guy, his name was

00:09:12.920 Jonas Wendell. And this actually put a fire in Charles, right? And Charles ended up creating

00:09:19.100 his own little Bible studies with his father, okay? And these Bible studies started kicking off,

00:09:25.640 but they were underneath the Adventist type of movement. So that's really where Charles Taze

00:09:31.520 Russell gets his wings. At first, they're teaching Trinitarian doctrine, right? But later it starts

00:09:37.040 changing. Charles starts developing his own theology, which is, we don't believe that the

00:09:42.460 apostles show that there should be a central organized church. This is what Charles was

00:09:48.140 believing at first, okay? That there should be these groups of people just studying God's word

00:09:52.560 for themselves. Really, that's not necessarily how it was working. He was the main teacher.

00:09:56.520 They even already like unofficially installed him as like a pastor. So they're listening to

00:10:00.660 everything he was saying. Right. However, there was not this one governing body at first with

00:10:07.660 Charles Taze Russell. He eventually started creating all of these little groups that were

00:10:11.240 all around the area. And he was a very wealthy man. Him and his father did very well. Eventually

00:10:17.840 eventually what happens is they change their name from the International Bible Students

00:10:22.300 Association into the Watchtower Tract Society. I believe that was like in 1881.

00:10:28.420 Needless to say, it starts becoming a more formal type of organization where they get a building in

00:10:33.720 one area, they're publishing a bunch of tracts. And that was really the main point was get all

00:10:38.400 this information out there. But it wasn't without a lot of controversy. Do you remember this story,

00:10:45.060 Jerry, you're really good at telling stories.

00:10:47.080 When Charles Taze Russell was actually tried in court

00:10:52.340 and for the miracle wheat.

00:10:56.460 Yeah, this has been a while.

00:10:58.180 So Walter Martin does a great job in Kingdom of the Colts

00:11:01.280 of sort of giving a lot of real historical background.

00:11:08.460 I mean, you could make a miniseries

00:11:09.920 just based off of what Walter Martin did.

00:11:12.560 And one of the things I want to say,

00:11:13.680 He really kind of paved the ground in regards to Christians doing excellence in regards to investigative journalism.

00:11:22.880 He talked about how when he first tried to create a bibliography for his first book, it didn't exist.

00:11:30.680 He said he had to literally go into the different cultic headquarters just to gather the materials.

00:11:36.700 He would go in and buy the materials out of these cultic organizations.

00:11:40.500 And he said, I had a whole room full of materials.

00:11:42.520 and that's what he would do and so there's a lot of great groundwork that he laid and so yeah there

00:11:48.560 was he had he's just one of those people that's kind of similar to joseph smith in the sense to

00:11:54.940 where he's very ambitious with a lot of different uh things but there is one example where i think

00:12:01.820 he had some sort of wheat that he claimed had special abilities i think um or there's something

00:12:09.700 special about the wheat that he propagated,

00:12:11.760 which turns out wasn't true, so I believe

00:12:13.860 there were areas in which he chased out of town.

00:12:15.980 What's really interesting is that,

00:12:17.980 and you can let me know what you think, I think there might be

00:12:19.840 just a difference between

00:12:22.180 the type of adherence

00:12:24.300 that someone right now active

00:12:26.060 in the Watchtower would really adhere

00:12:27.880 towards Charles Taze Russell. I feel

00:12:29.900 there's an intimacy that

00:12:31.960 Mormons have with Joseph Smith

00:12:33.480 that is really not there with Charles

00:12:35.860 Taze Russell. Mormons,

00:12:37.700 There's even hymns when they talk about Joseph went out in the woods to pray, and this kind of like true devout Mormons get caught up in the mythical experience of that.

00:12:47.660 I've talked with Mormons who, they said they went out into that exact location in New York where they believe is the location where Joseph Smith went to pray, and they get caught up in that experience.

00:13:00.020 It's a very sacred place for them.

00:13:03.180 you don't really see that like with modern day members of the Jehovah's Witnesses in relation

00:13:08.900 to Russell. Yeah, they kind of separate themselves from Charles Taze Russell. The reason why I was

00:13:12.700 stating what he believed about the International Bible Students Association with these little

00:13:16.180 groups is definitely different than what's the Watchtower Track Society believes today. I misspoke

00:13:21.580 earlier. I meant in 1881 is the first time we find that he denied the Trinity. 1896 is when they

00:13:26.540 changed their name to the Watchtower Track Society. I just want to state that. So many dates going

00:13:30.100 around here. But yeah, they kind of separate themselves from Charles Taze Russell.

00:13:34.600 Yeah, he did travel a lot. And he also had a big fascination as well. Another commonality he did

00:13:40.660 have with Joseph Smith is that he was very, very interested in Egyptology. Really, in the 19th

00:13:47.160 century, you would see a lot of fascination with that. And also, you saw the rise of a bunch of

00:13:52.960 pseudo-historians as well, too. But Charles Taze Russell, he had a big fascination with Egyptology.

00:13:59.800 Did he travel there to Egypt?

00:14:02.000 He might have.

00:14:02.780 I can't remember whether he did or not.

00:14:03.860 Again, my memory is a bit rusty when it comes to the history of Charles Taze Russell.

00:14:06.360 But he did utilize his studying and his understanding of the Egyptology, in which he utilized that to give his end-of-the-world predictions. 0.85

00:14:16.460 That's one area that is very unique to Jehovah's Witnesses.

00:14:20.380 So the very first prediction that they gave of the end of the world would have been in 1914. 1.00

00:14:26.680 Yeah, that sounds about right.

00:14:27.360 So 1914, I pulled up an old newspaper that you can see this.

00:14:31.040 I love looking at all.

00:14:31.840 This is the cool thing when you do different research.

00:14:35.580 Yeah, actually, Russell's chronology.

00:14:37.680 So this is Russell's, Charles T. Russell's chronology.

00:14:40.760 In 1799, the last days began.

00:14:43.520 1874 would have been the start of Jesus' invisible presence.

00:14:47.220 In 1878, Jesus became king in heaven.

00:14:50.520 And then 1914 would have marked the end of the world.

00:14:53.680 And what you end up seeing in that day came and went.

00:14:55.620 and i think it's been again being redefined uh you would see here would be an example of um an old

00:15:02.520 newspaper and this is just from wikipedia like them predicting the end of the world

00:15:06.740 and then you have so you had 1914 hold on what's really interesting about that is in 1914 prior to

00:15:13.080 this occurring he actually made an eight hour movie called the photodrama of creation over nine

00:15:19.040 million people viewed it and it was to try to prep people for this end of the world which

00:15:23.700 eventually didn't happen uh i i heard about that i was like i want to watch this movie

00:15:27.580 i don't know how crazy it was did you ever watch it no i haven't watched it i kind of want to though

00:15:32.960 yeah imagine an eight hour film that was made in 1914 that sounds with their own reinterpretation

00:15:39.240 of the creation story and things of that nature yeah and just to get a visual i mean this would

00:15:43.520 have been artwork from the 1800s i mean we can post this uh on the video if you want to do like

00:15:47.700 a quick frame sure that's this is the type of artwork that they would have seen so usually if

00:15:52.400 Someone has had an encounter with now Jehovah Witnesses, knock, knock, knock, 0.97

00:15:56.880 giving your door, like at your door. 1.00

00:15:58.420 They usually will have a magazine.

00:15:59.920 They also have literature.

00:16:01.520 I mean, the amount of literature they print.

00:16:04.520 And this is where Walter Morrow would say how the cults, they outwork us.

00:16:08.400 They outproduce literature.

00:16:10.100 The majority of even good Christian ministries that do evangelism.

00:16:13.860 You think about living waters, the amount of tract distribution that they do.

00:16:18.140 They do an excellent job.

00:16:19.240 And to this day, the Watchtower still outdoes them by the amount of literature that they print out.

00:16:24.100 I mean, and now they're back in droves. 0.99

00:16:25.700 I just saw Jehovah's Witnesses.

00:16:27.940 I saw two or three booths just in the airport in Austin.

00:16:30.980 And they're now back in Phoenix all over the place.

00:16:33.740 So you have that.

00:16:35.480 And then really the second end of the world prediction, and this is where they kept on predicting it,

00:16:41.560 it would have been in, the next one would have been, yeah, 1975.

00:16:44.900 That would have been another prediction that took place.

00:16:48.520 So 1914, then the next was 1975?

00:16:50.900 Yes.

00:16:51.480 And what you end up seeing is that,

00:16:54.200 and this is a portion when that day came and went,

00:16:56.640 that's when you saw a really large amount of really people

00:17:01.820 who were truly believers and really head-banked all of their chips.

00:17:07.800 They cashed in all of their, any Western you've seen

00:17:11.520 where somebody pushes in all their chips

00:17:13.740 and someone folds out the ace of spades

00:17:16.060 and they realize they lose everything.

00:17:17.160 That was the case for many people, so you had just a significant reduction in membership.

00:17:24.200 I mean, people left in droves, and that's just something that is indicative of a lot

00:17:31.280 of the different apocalyptic cults.

00:17:34.040 They're always utilizing end times visions.

00:17:36.240 You saw that just a couple days ago, like I said, with the eclipse.

00:17:40.280 People are reading in end times.

00:17:42.580 They're reading in apocalyptic visions of Matthew 24.

00:17:45.420 and talk about signs in the sky.

00:17:48.320 Right.

00:17:48.500 And by the time, you know, the listener, you know,

00:17:50.440 by the time this video is published, like, you know,

00:17:53.200 and you're listening to this, it could be, you know,

00:17:55.980 July or August or September of 2024.

00:17:59.560 But we're recording this, if you remember.

00:18:02.020 So for you, the listener, it's been months.

00:18:04.160 But if you remember, it was Monday.

00:18:06.080 What was the date?

00:18:07.000 April 8th.

00:18:08.000 What?

00:18:08.380 April 8th.

00:18:09.220 So if you remember, that's what we're actually just recording this

00:18:11.620 just a couple of days after that.

00:18:13.820 so to give the context that's what jeremiah is talking about is the april 8th solar eclipse and

00:18:18.920 you're right like there was i mean leading up to it you know there were tons of you know people

00:18:24.100 making predictions and prophecies and doomsday and or the sign of jonah people was you know it's like

00:18:31.840 right sign of jonah is talking about jesus right weird you know and then being being buried you

00:18:36.940 know three three days and rising again but then they were talking about because because where we

00:18:40.960 are right now you guys probably didn't know this but there's a small little town next to us called

00:18:45.480 jonah and it's just a couple miles away and so and they were like well the the path of to see

00:18:51.580 the total eclipse because you can see the eclipse anywhere in america but you don't necessarily have

00:18:57.000 you have to have the the uh the viewpoint the perspective um you know geographically in the

00:19:01.800 right place you know on earth to get those three points of you know you and the moon and the sun

00:19:07.860 to see to see a total eclipse and so from the perspective it it started in kind of you know

00:19:14.620 for u.s citizens down in texas and then kind of this diagonal line that went up north yeah and

00:19:19.640 started you know in our neck of the woods this is where you know earliest uh views of the total

00:19:25.360 eclipse happened like right where we're at in one of the towns uh right in our vicinity is jonah so

00:19:31.420 there were guys you know making you know giving their prophetic words about it's the sign of jonah

00:19:36.560 and using the name of the town to somehow exegete, you know, the words of Jesus.

00:19:42.620 So anyways, my point is just, you know, a dime a dozen false prophecies and predictions.

00:19:48.940 And this has been going on for a very, very long time, and it has not stopped.

00:19:53.220 Yeah, nothing new under the sun.

00:19:54.300 So just a couple of quick theological facts,

00:19:57.320 then we're going to get in maybe some of the practices of Jehovah's Witnesses.

00:20:01.340 So I think when it comes, what Walter Barton would state,

00:20:04.360 because, again, we've covered a lot of topics.

00:20:06.680 So in the same way, how I said when it comes to understanding the New Age and the occult

00:20:10.460 is understand one versus two.

00:20:13.060 I would recommend if you want to get a thorough overview of it,

00:20:15.460 get Peter Jones' book, One or Two, Seeing a World of Difference.

00:20:18.320 He gives a great, great general breakdown,

00:20:20.880 just understanding how to view neopaganism.

00:20:24.720 But in this case, when it comes to dealing with definitive non-Christian cults,

00:20:30.080 Walter Martin gave this great illustration.

00:20:31.980 I may have vaguely referenced to it in a previous episode, but he would talk about he had a friend who worked in banking, and this person oversaw loss prevention and specifically dealing with fraud and counterfeit money.

00:20:47.820 So how he would train and what they normally do to train people to detect counterfeit money is you don't study counterfeit money because those are a dime and dozens of all different ways that they do it.

00:21:00.720 So with Walter Martin's friend, he told him that they would go to this one of the U.S. mints, and for three to four weeks, all his team would do is they would study all the intricacies of dollar bills and of the coins and all the currency that typically would be counterfeited.

00:21:19.280 so all so the moment he said the moment that a counterfeit bill slips through your hands you

00:21:26.360 don't even have to look down you know it again just and i think i meant like i mentioned this

00:21:31.060 before this just the how the ink is pressed how the different minting and there's different parts

00:21:36.480 that are like printed and stamped you you know what it's like when you feel something that's

00:21:41.200 off in the same way anybody who is a jeweler when you see a bunch of costume jewelry uh versus

00:21:48.060 is a fool's gold or something else, like, you know, you don't even have to test it. You just

00:21:53.380 know visually it's like that. So in the same way, if you want to deal, because cults are a diamond

00:21:58.680 dozen, anytime like right now, we're living through a time of political tension, political

00:22:03.660 uncertainty. That's always when cults tend to arise is that Walter Martin would say, I urge

00:22:09.320 you not to become an expert on the cults as much become an expert on the person of who Jesus Christ

00:22:15.760 is. It's the people who become that and you'll never be fooled by anyone. It's the people who

00:22:20.160 are uninformed who get sucked into the cults. So understanding that, who is Jesus Christ according

00:22:26.880 to the Jehovah's Witnesses? Well, what's different is that they believe that Jesus Christ is Michael

00:22:33.300 the Archangel. They believe that he is Jehovah's first creation. So when they look, and also not

00:22:40.820 only that, that Michael, he helped work alongside God to help create the world. So, Jehovah's

00:22:48.560 witnesses, we'll look at Proverbs chapter 8, when he talks about the person who worked alongside me

00:22:53.740 in the creation of the world, they are, Jehovah's witnesses are seeing Micah, Jehovah's first

00:22:59.780 creation, utilizing that. And what they also have, Michael the archangel, that's what they adhere to.

00:23:06.000 And what you'll see, and as far as Revelation goes, they have a translation called the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures.

00:23:14.320 And that's their authoritative source.

00:23:17.380 And that's because that's what the Watchtower Bible Track Society says what the Bible is supposed to say.

00:23:23.660 But you will see deliberate alterations that do not match up with any Greek manuscripts.

00:23:29.460 They twist John 1.1.

00:23:31.660 They say, in the beginning was the Word.

00:23:33.200 The Word was with God.

00:23:34.000 The Word was a God.

00:23:35.340 and there's any notable verse

00:23:38.080 that would be attributed to Christ's

00:23:40.100 deity. I think

00:23:41.560 almost every, if you've read the Forgotten Trinity

00:23:44.180 by James White, nearly

00:23:45.840 every scripture that he references, they find

00:23:48.100 a way to change that

00:23:49.540 because they want, they've had in their mind

00:23:52.240 who God is. It's not in accordance

00:23:54.140 to scripture. So rather than

00:23:56.020 conform themselves to the word of God,

00:23:58.080 they want to conform the word of God

00:24:00.000 into their image and likeness.

00:24:01.340 right response ministries 2025 conference is a go this is three days full jam-packed conference

00:24:12.500 with eight main sessions three to four hour and a half long panels and an all-star super based

00:24:18.800 lineup of speakers 15 speakers in all who are they steve dace jeff durbin oran mcintyre steven

00:24:26.240 Wolf, Brian Sauve, Andrew Isker, John Harris, Eric Kahn, A.D. Robles, Dan Burkholder, the Christian

00:24:33.760 Prince himself, Dusty Devers, Ben Garrett, David Reese, and yours truly, Pastor Joel Webin. Again,

00:24:40.980 this is April 3rd, 4th, and 5th, 2025, and the early registration is open right now. This is

00:24:48.540 the longest conference with the most speakers we've ever offered, and yet it is our all-time

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00:25:01.740 rightresponseconference.com. Again, that is rightresponseconference.com to register right

00:25:08.980 now because the early registration will not last long. Yeah, Colossians 1.16 New World Translation

00:25:16.420 states uh because by means of him all other things were created in the heavens and on the earth all

00:25:24.680 other they had the word other and then john one right have you guys are you familiar with a view

00:25:29.280 um so uh we mentioned in a previous episode or you did jeremiah uh doug van dorn he's a reformed

00:25:35.660 baptist solid dude and uh he's written like well he's written books on reformed baptist covenant

00:25:41.400 theology and the doctrines of grace and a lot of good gospel you know doctrine stuff but he's also

00:25:45.600 written some stuff on the giants you know and so he holds the nephilim fallen angel view and um

00:25:51.060 but i i remember speaking with him recently and it threw me off at first like i you know my spidey

00:25:58.560 sense was was tingling but he said um he was talking about a view but within orthodoxy within

00:26:05.140 protestant of michael being a name for jesus and as soon as he said i was like you know i just

00:26:12.340 thought jehovah's witness i was right i was like you know you know but um he was like no no no no

00:26:19.240 he said um it could be wrong he said i'm not saying you know 100 i you know it could be wrong

00:26:24.700 he said but let me just at least you know be fair you know and and uh fairly you know

00:26:30.700 representing the view i'm not saying uh in this view i'm not saying that um that jesus was created

00:26:36.740 He is the eternal second member of the Trinity who was not first made by God, but who is God

00:26:43.620 through whom all things were made. So Jesus is eternal. He's creator, not creature. And he is

00:26:50.980 the word, the eternal Logos by which all things that have been made were made. And Michael was

00:26:59.540 another name. A title, yeah. A title. Have you heard that before? Yeah, it's in the book,

00:27:05.300 the angel of the lord he does detail that that there were reformers that held that view so i had

00:27:09.780 never heard that before so when i heard it i was like this sounds like joe's witnesses you know

00:27:13.700 like yeah red flag red flag but then when he fleshed it out it's like okay well he could still

00:27:17.980 be wrong but it's not heresy yeah right yeah their form of it is heresy as their first creation of

00:27:25.180 because they're saying jesus is a creature right like that's what they mean when they say michael

00:27:29.300 they mean he is the first of the created beings yep whereas yeah that's and that is different than

00:27:34.620 saying, Michael might be a title for Jesus, and if it is, either way, you know, Jesus always was.

00:27:44.620 He has always been. Yeah, and also another area in regards to doctrine, I mean, Jehovah's Witnesses

00:27:49.480 are very works-oriented. They believe that salvation really just entails being, you know,

00:27:54.840 following the adherences, laws, and ordinances of Jehovah's kingdom. They specifically, their

00:28:00.720 congregations are called Kingdom Hall. And there are a lot of different rules and regulations that

00:28:05.380 they follow. Anybody who is a devout Jehovah's Witnesses, I'm not quite sure what the regulations

00:28:09.720 are now. But normally, depending on how many hours you log in of going door to door and knock,

00:28:15.300 knock, knock, knock, knock, that's a big part of that. And usually that is the case. And so you

00:28:20.940 will see that. There are tenants of being, I'm trying to remember, were there as far as, do they

00:28:26.880 have restrictions as far as being what they can and can't eat or drink? Not off the top of my

00:28:31.940 head. I know according to their website, they have four essential things that must be adhered to in

00:28:37.120 order to obtain salvation. Right. Food isn't one of them. What are they? Yeah. So number one,

00:28:44.260 Jesus Christ identified as a first requirement when he said in prayer to his father, this means

00:28:48.620 everlasting life. They're taking in knowledge of you, the only true God and of the one whom you

00:28:53.460 sent forth Jesus Christ. Knowledge of God and of Jesus Christ includes knowledge of God's purposes

00:28:57.520 regarding the earth and of Christ's role as earth's new king. And it says, will you take

00:29:02.360 such knowledge in by studying the Bible? Number two, many have found the second requirement more

00:29:07.400 difficult. It is to obey God's laws. Yes, to conform one's life to the moral requirements

00:29:12.020 set out in the Bible. This includes refraining from a debauched, immoral way of life. So maybe

00:29:16.480 food might be tied in somewhere in there. Yeah, maybe. Number three, a third requirement is that

00:29:20.700 we be associated with God's channel, his organization, God has always used an organization.

00:29:26.020 For example, only those in the ark in Noah's day survived the flood and only those associated with

00:29:31.180 the Christian congregation in the first century had God's favor. Similarly, Jehovah is using only 0.95

00:29:36.960 one organization today to accomplish his will to receive everlasting life in the earthly paradise.

00:29:41.400 We must identify that organization and serve God as part of it. Number four, the fourth requirement

00:29:46.240 is connected with loyalty.

00:29:47.860 God requires that prospective subjects of his kingdom

00:29:50.420 support his government by loyalty

00:29:52.200 or by loyally advocating his kingdom rule to others.

00:29:56.140 Jesus Christ explained,

00:29:57.260 the good news of the kingdom will be preached

00:29:58.880 in all the inhabited earth.

00:30:00.920 Will you meet this requirement

00:30:01.840 by telling others about God's kingdom?

00:30:03.820 So what we find here is something interesting.

00:30:06.340 Do you hear salvation by living in the kingdom, right?

00:30:09.740 We're not talking about salvation

00:30:10.900 as living with Jesus Christ or being with him

00:30:14.220 and ruling from heaven after dying here.

00:30:17.160 Well, that's because they don't believe

00:30:18.740 that all people can have that.

00:30:20.480 It's not obtainable anymore.

00:30:22.500 So with their false prophecies

00:30:24.800 have also come new changes in doctrine.

00:30:28.220 I believe there's a generation,

00:30:29.720 it's the 1914 generation after them.

00:30:33.340 After that failed prophecy, they stated,

00:30:35.360 well, this generation within 1914

00:30:37.280 are gonna be the 144,000. 0.94

00:30:40.720 And only the 144,000 will be able to reign 0.82

00:30:43.080 uh, in heaven, but that generation is pretty much dead and gone now. So all of those seats are taken 0.71

00:30:49.700 up. So once a year, there's a, um, what would you call it? Like how we talked about earlier,

00:30:54.640 like cults will flood. They'll, they'll go to Mecca. There's a general conference. There's a

00:30:58.460 Mecca. There's the burning man. Well, the Jehovah Jehovah's witnesses have one in New York as well. 0.90

00:31:04.320 And this is the only time of the year that they take sacrament, but the only people who are

00:31:07.560 allowed to take the sacrament or of the 144,000, there's only a few people left. No one else can

00:31:12.700 take sacrament. And so you're seeing the 144,000 even dwindle out today. So everyone who dies

00:31:18.980 today, who meets those requirements according to the Jehovah's witnesses will enter into a soul 0.96

00:31:23.680 sleep, right? And then they'll wake up and they will be living on a new earth. They're not with

00:31:28.900 Jesus. They're on a new earth in a kingdom. But the 144,000 for them, allegedly when they die

00:31:35.060 immediately, they would be with Jesus in heaven? Or do they have a soul sleep as well? I'm not sure

00:31:41.760 off the top of my head okay yeah but real quick another thing i wanted to ask so you know

00:31:45.480 and and with all cults like you notice like out of those four things like

00:31:50.240 number three and four so half of the four things were um and what's really really important most

00:31:56.520 of all is uh loyalty to us the organization us we have a monopoly on truth uh there is no

00:32:03.700 salvation apart from christ no salvation apart from us like you know so um but uh i was wondering

00:32:10.560 what about some of the practical things aside from those four four things speaking of salvation

00:32:14.760 some of the um the uh the weird kind of uh more just traditional um cultural uh adherences like

00:32:25.400 like blood transfusions like i've got a friend who um his brother ended up dying yeah um

00:32:34.500 because he couldn't, you know, get a blood transfusion.

00:32:39.720 So there's that.

00:32:40.600 There's also military, right?

00:32:41.880 There's no, you can't serve in the military

00:32:43.940 or as a politician in any civil office.

00:32:47.860 There's a lot of interesting things like that.

00:32:50.780 Yeah.

00:32:51.420 Yeah, there's a uniqueness in regards to what they don't celebrate.

00:32:55.820 They wouldn't celebrate 4th of July.

00:32:58.220 They would see that as giving credence to the Nationality of America,

00:33:02.920 but they see a distinction in a separation of Levi's kingdom.

00:33:06.320 So they wouldn't celebrate Fourth of July.

00:33:07.620 They wouldn't celebrate Christmas.

00:33:09.360 Any of the known holidays they don't celebrate.

00:33:10.840 They also don't celebrate birthdays.

00:33:12.900 The only understanding reason, 1.00

00:33:14.660 even talking with ex-Jehovah's Witnesses

00:33:16.700 and those who have left the Watchtower,

00:33:18.720 is that they really don't want people attributing

00:33:21.820 or getting any sort of identity

00:33:23.480 or anything that gives them a unique sort of distinction

00:33:25.900 outside of Jehovah's kingdom.

00:33:27.660 So there is something about your birthday that's like,

00:33:29.800 oh, this is my day.

00:33:31.200 This is the day where you turn that.

00:33:33.300 And so anybody who sees that, so you have that.

00:33:37.400 And then there's restrictions as far as holidays go.

00:33:41.300 It is very interesting when it comes to the area of blood transfusion.

00:33:46.120 And that's not because really – it's because the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society said so.

00:33:53.020 And it's been heartbreaking because the one commonality that so many cults have –

00:33:58.860 And again, you talk about this is the jurisdictions of government that God has given.

00:34:03.760 There's the approach of, you know, self-government and family government.

00:34:07.540 And what you choose to do regarding medical decisions,

00:34:11.760 that falls under the category of self-government and family government.

00:34:16.460 Familial fathers would have the final say, not a pastor. 0.99

00:34:20.420 Right.

00:34:21.320 And so, you know, and this comes from everything.

00:34:23.520 Or Dr. Fauci.

00:34:24.620 Yeah.

00:34:26.120 You better believe me, I'm science.

00:34:28.060 The father of all signs.

00:34:29.240 Yeah, right.

00:34:30.360 The godfather, the Don.

00:34:32.740 But yeah, usually what you have is a cult will jump in

00:34:36.880 and will talk about what you can and can't do,

00:34:39.140 specifically when it comes to medical treatment.

00:34:42.760 A lot of times we did a podcast in a group called The Church of Wells,

00:34:45.860 and one of the first things they do when they try and recruit

00:34:48.040 and bring members into their organization

00:34:51.220 is that they tell them unequivocally you cannot take any medication, 0.53

00:34:56.480 Whether or not it's, you know, whether it's aspirin or whether it's something to do with like mental health or anxiety medication, even something that's been prescribed unequivocally, you can't take that any sort of medicine whatsoever, that's pharmakia. 0.92

00:35:10.220 Like they could take it to the nth degree. 0.99

00:35:12.720 That would be an example of that. 0.95

00:35:13.840 You have that with Christian science.

00:35:15.000 Christian science because of their pre-commitments and beliefs.

00:35:17.740 that was a difficult moment in one of our earliest episodes where it's like how do you

00:35:22.160 you probably have times too where you're doing pastoral counseling and someone shares

00:35:25.900 something that happened to them and it's like you're there to minister to them it's like

00:35:29.960 how do you not just like break down in front of them like there's they're the one that's

00:35:35.120 supposed to be doing that but you're the pastor it's like how are you not how are you holding it

00:35:38.180 together this person uh who was uh his name was tanner johns wrote i think it was and he's a

00:35:43.960 grew up in Christian science, and he just broke down. He said, I lost count of how many people

00:35:49.760 died that should have lived because they would not get medical attention for this, that, and the

00:35:56.560 other. And he literally said, bad theology kills people. And there's a gentleman that one time,

00:36:04.440 I remember Andrew, we talked with him, and he had just this guiltiness on his conscience because he

00:36:11.260 went camping with a friend that was Jehovah's Witnesses,

00:36:14.100 they had a three or four

00:36:15.280 wheeler and it rolled over and 0.69

00:36:16.900 the girl...

00:36:19.180 His niece. It was his family. It was his niece

00:36:21.140 and she was in the back of this

00:36:23.100 four wheeler.

00:36:25.840 It was a four wheeler?

00:36:27.240 It wasn't a three wheeler? Is it a three or four wheeler?

00:36:29.280 I can't remember. Three wheelers are

00:36:31.180 notorious. Super dangerous. Oh yeah.

00:36:33.080 I think it was an ATV. I'm pretty sure

00:36:35.300 it was a four wheeler. Yeah. But it rolled

00:36:37.260 over and she got

00:36:38.740 artery lacerated and so she was going to die and it wasn't they if it wasn't for a particular law

00:36:45.700 in arizona that says that if the medical doctor can proceed that unequivocally the under the

00:36:52.740 minor's life is in danger they can actually override uh the parents so it was because of

00:36:59.560 that instance that she was alive today because the parents were saying no they parents say no

00:37:04.980 don't give her blood and the doctor knew if she does not get a blood transfusion she will die

00:37:10.140 and so you have a numerous amount of folks who are loyal and believe that this is they are in

00:37:17.260 the truth that's another thing that jehovah's witnesses will discuss with each other the

00:37:21.980 language that they use they'll say how long have you been in the truth that's one of the things

00:37:26.080 that they'll refer to but you have a plethora of people including mostly even children who have

00:37:33.100 died because they will not get blood transfusions in fact they go as far as at their conference

00:37:40.040 they will actually put on a pedestal the children who have died because they would not get a blood

00:37:47.840 transfusion as as mart they view it as martyrdom like that that's funny it's like uh and who were

00:37:56.440 the perpetrators who is like these are the martyrs yeah uh-huh and who uh killed them

00:38:03.100 you leaders of this organization who are lying to people and deceiving them the enemy always

00:38:09.840 wants the blood of children doesn't he yeah one way or another yeah right and it's on it is

00:38:14.120 heartbreaking because when you look at like how christians have advanced civilization and what

00:38:20.040 was the true you know and obviously there's an area of western medicine you would say no that's

00:38:24.580 That's industrial, commercialized medicine.

00:38:26.980 But as a whole, there's so much in the Western world

00:38:29.760 that was advanced because of the Christian worldview.

00:38:32.240 The person who invented anesthesia,

00:38:34.100 that was someone who was a Christian

00:38:36.480 who saw that he wanted to help people

00:38:38.800 because they were getting, you know,

00:38:40.580 there's no way to, aside from like,

00:38:42.800 chugging some whiskey before they saw it off your leg.

00:38:45.720 No, he saw how the Lord put Adam into her deep sleep

00:38:49.240 before he moved his rib, and he said,

00:38:50.420 there has to be a way to help this person go into a deep sleep so they don't feel the pain

00:38:56.700 while they're doing this procedure. So you have anesthesia. I mean, even the concepts of

00:39:02.200 hospitals, and there's so much medicine that has been advanced because of really primarily

00:39:08.560 the Christian worldview that has advanced that. And this is taking something and turning it on

00:39:13.840 its head. Like the very thing that gives us life is now determined to be taboo. So that's one area

00:39:22.940 that's very destructive. And we did talk about that quite extensively, giving that perspective

00:39:27.220 in our episode, Leah Remini and the Jehovah's Witnesses. Talk about this too, Jerry. You're

00:39:30.680 doing an excellent job, so I want you to keep going here. So talk about the two witness rule.

00:39:34.200 Talk about what we would say in theonomy, two to three independent lines of testimony would be,

00:39:39.140 and talk about how they butcher that.

00:39:41.080 Right.

00:39:41.520 So there have been a plethora of cases of abuse

00:39:44.840 when it comes to the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society,

00:39:47.420 and a lot of their big expenses that they had

00:39:50.520 have been having to settle lawsuits when it comes to abuse

00:39:53.480 because they have a two-witness policy

00:39:57.080 to where in order to affirm an accusation of sexual abuse,

00:40:00.980 there have to be two people who witness the event.

00:40:03.800 Like, where does that even happen

00:40:06.900 when it comes to usually when a predator tries to isolate someone into an isolated area.

00:40:14.100 Well, they'll say no matter what.

00:40:15.140 If the second person wasn't their witness, we can't give any adherence to it.

00:40:18.380 Whereas the true general equity principle is that it can be anything from a camera,

00:40:24.060 anything from a camera to even to a semen sample to, you know,

00:40:28.380 there's a lot of different areas that would constitute an independent line of witness,

00:40:33.240 not just a—

00:40:33.620 Two or three independent lines of testimony.

00:40:35.360 Of testimony and witness.

00:40:36.900 So what they do is they take a twisted, inverted position of that to where it ends up being a breeding ground of abuse because there's no, there's no, there's not even, you have to have the two witnesses, but there's an unwillingness even while the matter is investigated to get that individual away and into a safe place while the matter can be investigated and really following the general equity principles of Deuteronomy 19.

00:41:01.360 So you really have this breeding ground of abuse.

00:41:08.220 So you have that, and then really what you see when it comes to birds of a feather flock together,

00:41:14.640 and it's just the same practice, just given a different title.

00:41:17.780 In Scientology, it's somebody who is considered a suppressive person,

00:41:22.020 who speaks out against the Church of Scientology where they are completely cut off, disconnected.

00:41:27.120 There is the same thing that happens within the Watchtower Bible and Track Society, which is

00:41:32.300 something referred to as being disfellowshipped. This is a twisted and distorted version of

00:41:38.700 church discipline, where the purpose is to shun them and to shame them. And this was a heartbreaking

00:41:45.600 moment in this show that, again, years ago they watched and we did a review of. They have this

00:41:50.820 panel of just people who are ex-Jehovah's Witnesses, and they said, you know, you could 0.57

00:41:55.820 look in a court setting someone may have committed a horrific crime but you know who's typically

00:42:01.780 still going to be there their family and they'll still be along they don't like the family doesn't

00:42:07.400 affirm or acknowledge or justify the action that was taken but they are still there to to represent

00:42:13.260 them but he said what what crime have we done to where we we are not they're not even allowed to

00:42:20.260 look in our eyes. That is what they are told not even to look into their eyes and to shame them

00:42:27.200 and to shun them and somehow that is a good way of glorifying Jehovah. That is abuse of an image

00:42:36.540 bearer of God. That's when you understand the biblical church discipline, the whole purpose

00:42:41.260 and intent of that is to, when you say you're told to treat someone as an unbeliever, as Christians,

00:42:49.500 How are we supposed to treat someone as unbelievers?

00:42:51.980 How do we treat unbelievers?

00:42:53.440 We evangelize them.

00:42:55.840 We love them.

00:42:56.600 We pray for them.

00:42:57.460 We're brokenhearted over them.

00:42:59.340 Like, that's the approach.

00:43:00.520 We don't shun them.

00:43:01.780 We don't, like, and I'm sure there's Christians who do, and that's something they need to 0.98

00:43:06.400 repent of. 1.00

00:43:07.400 Like, the authentic model is to love them and to pray for them, to be brokenhearted for

00:43:13.400 them in hopes that they may have this moment of sobriety and come back to the fold.

00:43:17.980 Right.

00:43:18.380 The nature of the relationship does change.

00:43:21.000 We're not just shooting the breeze.

00:43:25.020 So there is a change in the relationship.

00:43:28.020 Paul even talks about, we would call this within Christian terms,

00:43:30.960 the grace of shame.

00:43:32.460 So shame is a virtue.

00:43:35.020 It's not whether but which.

00:43:36.300 Every culture will have certain things that are deemed as bad

00:43:40.740 and worthy of shame.

00:43:42.500 And it's not whether but which.

00:43:43.460 Right now, our culture is further apostatizing from Christ.

00:43:48.380 Christians are being shamed. I can't believe you believe that, you know, so we're, we're the ones

00:43:54.480 who are now incurring shame. But so there is within, you know, true Christian categories,

00:43:59.820 there really is a place for saying, okay, the nature of our relationship, because you have 0.79

00:44:04.560 completely, um, you've trampled, uh, you know, the, the blood of the covenant underfoot. Um,

00:44:12.080 you have turned your back on Christ. Um, and because you're living in impenitent sin and

00:44:17.640 you have been removed from fellowship from the church the nature of our relationship is different

00:44:22.060 now right even then it wouldn't be um i won't even look you in the eyes or i can't ever speak to you

00:44:27.720 again there would still be a relationship but the nature of that relationship would have shifted

00:44:32.840 to where i would still love you i would still care for you i would still engage with you

00:44:37.500 but my primary purpose would be to call you to repentance and sharing the gospel with you

00:44:42.800 but it wouldn't be uh just cut off it is it would be shifting the nature of the relationship

00:44:49.200 the relationship wouldn't be cut off the relationship would continue but the nature

00:44:53.560 of the relationship would change but with you know jehovah's uh witness it sounds like it's not like

00:44:59.140 and now you know father and mother with your you know with your grown child who has left the church

00:45:05.000 uh you need to hold them to repentance no it's uh you need to uh for all intents and purposes

00:45:10.660 is they're dead and never contact them again.

00:45:14.740 They put their photo up in the kingdom hall

00:45:16.540 so they can know exactly who they are.

00:45:18.740 Do not look at them.

00:45:20.260 Do not interact with them. 0.95

00:45:22.160 Shun them like they don't even exist. 0.81

00:45:24.920 Right.

00:45:25.420 So Steve Hassan, he wrote this excellent book,

00:45:28.260 two books I really enjoy,

00:45:29.500 Freedom of Mind and Combating Cult Mind Control.

00:45:33.280 He is somebody, while he's not,

00:45:34.860 Steve Hassan's not a Christian,

00:45:36.800 he does really give a good, 1.00

00:45:38.520 he really breaks down,

00:45:39.740 again he calls it the bite model behavior control information control thought control emotional

00:45:44.060 control but a big part of a lot of these destructive cults is that the cult takes

00:45:49.320 a unique identity that's sort of a cookie cutter mold and they force that into the identity of the

00:45:54.940 individual so what you will see many a times of somebody who is a true believer whether it's a

00:45:59.940 Scientologist somebody who is a devout Mormon or whatever would have you is that you have your

00:46:06.420 true authentic self, and then you have the cult identity. And so a lot of times when you're 0.67

00:46:11.900 interacting with a cult member, you'll see the real authentic self come out, but then there'll

00:46:17.900 be times where you bring something up that triggers the siege mentality, and you will see

00:46:23.120 all of a sudden the cult identity resurface. So it's almost like a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde

00:46:27.860 go back and forth. But what is really interesting when it comes to really the former Jehovah's 0.96

00:46:36.360 Witnesses that we've talked to, that we've interviewed, many of them would say, would

00:46:41.720 talk about the sociological environment within Jehovah's Witnesses, how you are always have to

00:46:48.020 be, there's a pressure to always be that shiny, happy person that is always, everything is always

00:46:54.220 wonderful. Everything is good in Tinseltown. So even if your life is falling apart, you have

00:46:59.300 to have it like you're together because that's where all of a sudden you might be on the

00:47:04.060 chopping block to stand before your governing body of elders and say, hey, what is wrong with

00:47:08.500 you? How is this your fault? And usually any sort of falling short of the standards that they do,

00:47:14.960 that's your fault. And that's usually grounds for disfellowshipping. In fact, one of our previous

00:47:20.220 guests from an old episode we did a long time ago, his sister was sexually assaulted. And when she

00:47:27.020 went to talk to the elders or the body within that kingdom hall, they basically affirmed that

00:47:34.040 it was her fault it was her fault that she got raped and they basically told her that that was

00:47:40.600 because she was not falling short of that of their commands that they adhered to and they decided to 0.92

00:47:46.500 disfellowship her wow so you have that and so like and that and that was a catalyst for her to get

00:47:53.480 into alcohol so you actually have he gave a reference to that there's a good majority of

00:47:59.020 people even in the watchtower and bible track society who are functioning alcoholics one of

00:48:03.920 the reasons why is because you are in a place to where you're not allowed to have free did you ever

00:48:11.200 see the film equilibrium i think so yeah so it's a movie it's a dystopian movie i love it but the

00:48:17.260 premise of this movie that emotion is illegal anything that induces emotion you cannot have

00:48:22.760 and then you have people who enforce so any everything from art to pets to anything that

00:48:28.680 would induce emotion you cannot have spicy food right yes uh and if you have that you'd be called

00:48:35.240 a sense offender and so in the movie christian bale who is one this enforcer of this code of

00:48:42.060 emotion being illegal there's these pills that you're supposed to take somehow his it falls down

00:48:47.440 the seat and he can't take it he begins to feel and he begins to live this like double life and 0.92

00:48:52.180 in many ways that really describes the environment that many Jehovah's Witnesses live in. There's a 0.93

00:48:59.000 great film. It's very difficult to watch, but it's excellent. It's called Apostate. And it was

00:49:05.340 this independent film that was done that really depicts life inside the Watchtower Bible and

00:49:10.020 Tract Society. And you see the loyalty that they have, but also the, so it's not just the

00:49:16.380 functioning alcoholics part of it, but those who leave, both who are in the Watchtower Bible and

00:49:21.680 tract society and those who leave the type of mental health issues that they have coming out

00:49:27.800 of it the one of the primary reasons by is because you can't you can never be your true authentic

00:49:32.740 self there is a sense in which emotion is illegal because you can never be your true authentic self

00:49:38.980 you always have to follow there's you're always walking on eggshells to be this perfect shining

00:49:45.200 happy person as described by them and so therefore you know even if your world is falling apart you

00:49:51.540 have to constantly just be good and be wonderful. So usually, when you think about in the contrast,

00:49:57.400 you're a new now ordained pastor and with your pastoral ministry, you think about just the

00:50:03.600 premise of a pastor counseling his flock. Can you imagine them coming to you, but you as this minute

00:50:11.680 they open up to share whatever's going on, whether it's a broken marriage or whether it's them

00:50:19.420 relapsing into addiction or whatever it is. It's like, you have to create an environment where

00:50:25.760 they are safe to be able to like, to talk to you because how else as a, as a pastor, can you

00:50:30.900 prescribe to them their identity in Christ and allow the Holy Spirit to be a counselor that

00:50:35.720 requires an environment of trust and vulnerability into people to not like, not be a sense offender.

00:50:43.200 Like, so even the environment that they give is so antithetical to even as Christians is how we 0.96

00:50:49.060 should minister to those who are like, who are in our own flock. So I think that's really what you 0.99

00:50:54.760 see. And one other thing that's just interesting too, and Andrew, you can give your thoughts on

00:50:57.800 this as well too, is that I do think that neo-paganism is really the new zeitgeist. That's

00:51:04.500 the new religion. That's the new spirit of the age. I don't think people are really getting,

00:51:10.240 Jehovah's Witnesses is not something people were flocking to in droves.

00:51:13.500 Because all the Mormonism, Scientology, Jehovah's Witnesses, it sounds like these are all just

00:51:17.680 particular expressions of neo-paganism right um that worked at a certain time where you could have

00:51:23.420 more of a iron fist you know grip on um information and control and manipulation and these kinds of

00:51:31.080 but now with it's kind of like you know rome had like a you know roman catholicism had like this

00:51:37.280 monopoly on truth you know uh but then it was god was doing you know theological reformation

00:51:43.040 at the same time he was also doing technological uh innovation with the gutenberg printing press

00:51:49.120 and when that happened rome really couldn't tamp down as try as they might they could not

00:51:54.400 they could not hold the iron fist you know clenched uh control on information that they

00:52:02.500 that they used to and so you have the ivory tower you know the monopoly starts to break apart and

00:52:08.360 here's the protestant you know faith that comes out of it and here we are 500 years later and it

00:52:13.280 seems like there was another in a sense a um a a re-reformation because we need many reformations

00:52:19.480 reformed you know simple reformanda you know that we were reformed and always reforming and so

00:52:23.880 there's a fresh reformation theologically within the church but they're also again i don't think

00:52:29.300 it's a coincidence but within the providence of god just like with luther 500 years ago theological

00:52:34.020 reformation and technological innovation. Here we are half a millennia later, and it's the same

00:52:39.360 thing. This fresh reformation theologically, but also teamed up with technological innovation.

00:52:45.240 What's that? Well, it's not the Gutenberg printing press. It's a little thing, you know,

00:52:48.820 it's the Al Gore internet. But, you know, but the internet and social media and podcasting and all

00:52:54.280 these different things. And so what do you find? Once again, those who were counter to the truth

00:52:59.380 500 years ago, you know, a prime example of that was Rome, Roman Catholicism. Well, today, 0.96

00:53:04.820 some of those monopolies, ivory towers, when there's fresh reformation and there's novel

00:53:11.520 technological innovation, whenever God does that, one of the effects, one of the fruits of that

00:53:17.180 is that some of the old dominant powers that have monopolies on truth, they start to break apart.

00:53:25.700 they can't keep it together anymore. They can't control it. It's like wildfire and it gets beyond

00:53:30.420 them. So I think, all that to say, I think that some of your single, focused, controlled,

00:53:38.660 centralized, you know, where just, you know, one round table of elders in New York control

00:53:43.640 everything all over the world, you know, those very particular forms of neo-paganism like

00:53:49.460 jehovah's witness mormonism and scientology i just don't think it can hold um uh but neopaganism

00:53:56.540 in a general sense that's like we talked about in another episode it's your um the equivalent of

00:54:02.180 your build a bear you know where you just get to go and take a little bit of everything and it's

00:54:07.600 not which i mean that is what you know joseph smith did that is what these other guys did

00:54:12.080 but they got they got to do it take a little bit of everything and then they said um and now

00:54:16.600 everyone else i got to build my custom bear but now i'm just going to reproduce a mass produce

00:54:22.800 my bear and everyone has to like it and this is the only bear you can have whereas i think that

00:54:28.580 is probably going to go away yeah but the idea of the the build a bear where um you get to be your

00:54:33.660 own joseph smith and everyone gets to go into the shop and build their own custom bear and take a

00:54:39.080 little bit of thor and take a little bit of zeus and some jupiter and so that is not going away

00:54:44.680 anytime soon that so so while some of these these well-known cults um like mormonism those things i

00:54:51.620 think are are going to decline yeah the general sense of paganism a build a bear your own custom

00:54:58.040 neo-paganism that is very much on the rise and we are and as christians we're going to need to be

00:55:03.460 able to spot we're gonna have to be even more familiar with the real dollar bill bill because

00:55:08.080 it won't just be oh i can learn about three cults and and i'll and i'll be able to cover the bases

00:55:13.460 no no no you're going to have to be really familiar with because there'll be instead of

00:55:18.820 three counterfeits there'll be three million counterfeits because every single individual

00:55:23.620 person will have their own version of their neo-pagan cultish views and and you know and

00:55:30.120 you'll say well that's uh i know what this is it's xyz and they'll say well actually mine's

00:55:35.820 different and i don't actually you know what i mean and so we need to be able to say ah okay

00:55:40.240 But there are some common denominators, universal principles of all false religions and cults and go across the board with neo-paganism, the one-ism versus two-ism, that we can spot these things so that we don't have to become experts of three million individual isolated examples of neo-paganism.

00:56:03.700 We can just know the true Christian faith, that first and foremost, and the gospel of Jesus Christ,

00:56:09.880 and then also know these basic universal principles that find themselves in every cult so that we can spot it.

00:56:16.600 Yeah, and the one last thing too, and Andrea, I'll let you talk as you rip up here, is that one area,

00:56:22.400 again, when the majority of Jehovah's Witnesses that you will see now out there are folks who are of an older generation.

00:56:28.700 there's still people for the majority part

00:56:30.500 who are in their 50s and 60s.

00:56:32.280 Seeing younger millennial Gen Z,

00:56:34.940 people who are out doing that,

00:56:37.360 it's virtually non-existent.

00:56:39.900 You're looking at really,

00:56:40.940 it's an older generation.

00:56:42.280 So in some sense with Scientology,

00:56:43.700 it's a dying breed.

00:56:44.360 But another part of it

00:56:45.120 is really just the boy who cried wolf.

00:56:47.500 Yeah, you're right.

00:56:48.280 At a certain point,

00:56:49.100 you've lost all credibility.

00:56:51.360 And I think it's the same with cults 0.98

00:56:54.700 like Mormonism, Jehovah's Witness. 0.99

00:56:56.480 They are the boy that cried wolf 0.95

00:56:57.940 and they lose credibility but to be fair like it um it's uh not just those cults it's the same with

00:57:04.580 other cults like um not just you know the branch davidians but the branch covidians right so like

00:57:10.880 that like um you know the atheist um is very religious as well the secular humanist the

00:57:18.340 darwinianist you know um the cult of you know hashtag the science um that cult has made many

00:57:26.620 false prophecies like so if we want to look at false prop because because here's the thing the

00:57:30.420 only reason i want to include them is because if any if anybody who would deem themselves you know

00:57:35.200 they would they would fancy themselves to be non-religious and they're watching this uh they'd

00:57:40.860 say yeah they'd say i agree with you guys you know i think you guys are wrong too as christians 0.98

00:57:46.000 but i agree with you guys aren't aren't they silly aren't they dumb you know jehovah's witnesses and 0.98

00:57:50.300 mormons and stuff um meanwhile how many false prophecies uh with uh did you most people have 0.98

00:57:58.480 forgotten this by now but um you know we've got climate crisis before that climate change before

00:58:04.860 that global warming here's one everybody forgot what about global cooling remember those days

00:58:09.740 you know like how many times have the prophets because that's what it is there dr fauci was a

00:58:15.660 priest. And then, you know, there are other, you know, climate alarmists, you know, like Gretchen,

00:58:21.820 what's her face? You know, like, you know, these are, there are priests and there are prophets and

00:58:26.220 there's an orthodoxy and there are sacraments too, right? You know, there's certain things where,

00:58:30.780 you know, having a good carbon, you know, credit score and stuff like that, you know,

00:58:35.040 there are certain sacraments, there's certain dogma, and there are certain things outside of

00:58:40.380 that that is blasphemy. You're not allowed to say there are priests, there are prophets.

00:58:43.580 It is a religion, and every religion has prophecies and makes certain predictions.

00:58:50.720 But with cults, with false religions, the predictions are wrong again and again and again.

00:58:58.180 And right now, I think why, part of the reason we're going to see a rise of neo-paganism

00:59:01.900 is because you're not going to see, I think, a rise of Mormonism, Jehovah's Witness, and

00:59:06.440 Scientology because they've had too many false prophecies, and everybody knows it.

00:59:10.680 but i don't think you're going to see a rise of atheism like we did over the previous decades

00:59:16.780 because they also have had too many false prophecies the atheists have made just as many

00:59:21.340 prophecies you know whether it be in the climate vein or be in this political vein but they've made

00:59:26.580 prophecies too and they've all turned out to be false so now you know i think you know what then

00:59:31.800 what is it that people are going to turn toward i think they're going to like the the more

00:59:36.860 individualistic and abstract and custom and you know the better right so like i'm not going to

00:59:43.580 turn to any of these major dominant you know religious views because all of them are a sham

00:59:49.900 all of them have been utterly embarrassed so i'm going to turn to christ in in the true christian

00:59:55.120 faith or if i refuse to do that i'm going to turn not to uh not to whatever ancient you know cult

01:00:04.020 No, I'm going to turn to my own personal neo-paganism that's, you know, I just made it up, you know, 15 minutes ago.

01:00:12.800 So it still has a blank slate.

01:00:15.780 It has a perfect batting average.

01:00:17.520 It's never gotten anything wrong.

01:00:18.880 Yeah, and typically their creed right now is science is real, black lives matter, no human is illegal, love is love.

01:00:24.200 Was it women rights are human rights and kindness is everything? 0.88

01:00:27.420 You've seen the yard sign. 1.00

01:00:28.740 Right, that's their orthodoxy.

01:00:30.320 That's their creed, yeah.

01:00:31.380 And anything outside of that is blasphemy.

01:00:34.020 and you will be punished. You will be punished. If there's not penalties under the law,

01:00:41.320 which I think they're working on, but if they're in the meantime, then it'll just

01:00:46.060 cultural social penalties. They'll try to penalize you by doxing you, getting you fired from your

01:00:51.780 job or whatever it might be. But yeah, every religion has an orthodoxy. Everything outside

01:00:59.040 of that orthodoxy is blasphemy and there have always been blasphemy laws it's like well we're

01:01:05.320 not you know that's that's the taliban or that's you know handsmaid's tale we you know we're not

01:01:10.220 a christian nation we don't want blasphemy laws well we have blasphemy laws right now there are

01:01:14.040 certain things that you cannot say it's not whether but which you will have an orthodoxy

01:01:19.160 you will have a religion you will have sacraments you will have sacrifices you will have priests

01:01:23.720 you will have prophets, and you will have blasphemy laws.

01:01:27.760 The question is just, who's?

01:01:30.180 Who's? Which ones?

01:01:31.700 Not whether, but which.

01:01:33.480 And there was a time where blaspheming Christ, there were penalties.

01:01:38.580 And now you can blaspheme Christ all day long. 0.76

01:01:41.440 But you can't blaspheme the God of LGBTQ. 0.98

01:01:45.120 You can burn an American flag.

01:01:47.220 You'll be okay. 0.99

01:01:48.260 But you burn a rainbow flag, and you're in trouble. 0.92

01:01:51.540 In some states right now in our nation, you burn a rainbow flag and there are legal penalties.

01:01:57.400 Yeah.

01:01:57.780 I saw a headline just two or three days ago, and it was in New Zealand.

01:02:03.120 They had trans-ginga colors all over the sidewalk.

01:02:08.240 And it said there's a countrywide manhunt for three people who have the audacity to get a paint roller because they're just fed up with it.

01:02:14.920 They went out and just put the paint over it.

01:02:17.340 Now that's sacrilege right there.

01:02:21.260 right exactly that's that's that's throwing that's uh that's you know think about all the

01:02:25.900 outrage over the uh the chart that we are charlie uh comics uh drawing muhammad and though though

01:02:31.620 they they consider that blasphemy laws right um but now i was like this is the exact same thing

01:02:36.320 you know they're they're they're that's already there and yeah i i think that that is happening

01:02:41.140 and i think that you know one way you'll see it is uh i think gretchen whitmore whatever name is

01:02:46.140 from the from the michigan uh gov the governor of michigan yeah you know she she kind of made a name 0.97

01:02:50.900 for herself during 2020 but you know she was recently trying to do legislation that it would

01:02:55.940 be criminal penalties for not identifying someone as their pronouns right and what is what is that

01:03:00.940 whole movement it's an extension of neo-paganism where you're required to worship with your own 0.68

01:03:05.020 body so you are doing and for you are enforcing blasphemy laws already because you're you're

01:03:11.220 saying you worship worship this person will allow worship them worship their body or else face the

01:03:18.940 wrath and penalties of the state. Yep. That's it. Andrew, why don't you have the final word and

01:03:23.760 just land the plane, wrap it up for this episode, but really the whole series, because this is our

01:03:29.360 final episode, but hit us. You're so good at this. Hit us, wrap some things up, but then give us

01:03:36.500 that sweet gospel at the end. Okay, man. So when thinking of all of this, which I was actually

01:03:44.740 trying to be, I was thinking about that while you guys were talking. Um, the reality of the

01:03:48.460 situation is that humanity will always seek to fill a God-shaped hole that only God can fill,

01:03:53.980 right? They will create a religion, whether it be through demonic influence or through the whims

01:03:58.860 of men as inventors of evil. Uh, and it will never satisfy the righteous requirements of the law 0.58

01:04:04.840 ever. It can't, it's impossible. The wages of sin is death. We will all die one day and meet God

01:04:13.440 and be judged according to that law, right?

01:04:16.840 Occultic practices won't save you.

01:04:19.480 Reincarnation is a lie, right?

01:04:21.800 Sacrificing your own body will not appease the wrath of God.

01:04:25.960 The beautiful thing is, in reality,

01:04:28.880 is that God is restoring things to himself,

01:04:31.780 to the glory of God,

01:04:32.840 which you were discussing a few episodes earlier,

01:04:35.340 by the blood of Jesus Christ,

01:04:37.020 the God-man who came,

01:04:39.480 who was made like his brothers in every respect,

01:04:41.420 not only so that he could level with us

01:04:43.640 and show us grace and mercy in humility,

01:04:46.000 but also that his blood would be an efficacious sacrifice

01:04:50.160 for our sins.

01:04:51.940 So that through our belief in him,

01:04:54.620 we are declared righteous before the father

01:04:57.560 in which when I die,

01:04:59.360 I will stand wearing the righteous robes of Christ.

01:05:01.620 Just like it says in Zechariah with the angel of the Lord

01:05:04.740 when he's talking to Joshua,

01:05:05.780 he says, take those filthy garments off of him

01:05:07.960 and put my garments on him, right?

01:05:10.020 I wear the righteous robes of Christ and in Christ alone.

01:05:12.720 There's nothing I can do to fill that requirement.

01:05:15.640 Thank you, God, for that.

01:05:17.140 And in that belief, I have a reconciled relationship with God and dwelt with the Holy Spirit so

01:05:21.780 I can know the mind of God by God himself and through his word.

01:05:26.140 And again, it's not only for me, but it's for his kingdom.

01:05:28.620 He's restoring the earth.

01:05:30.140 He's making all things new in which we can find the source and meaning of life in the

01:05:34.960 incarnation of Jesus Christ, the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, and the

01:05:38.980 restoration of all things by god's attributes namely his grace and his mercy and undeserving

01:05:44.340 sinners amen amen thank you guys for tuning into the series uh if this is your first episode well

01:05:52.200 then um the the last uh has been first but go back and watch this is actually uh episode 10

01:06:00.880 of a 10-part series dealing with multiple different false religions and cults and the

01:06:05.600 whole idea was to give about an hour on 10 different cults. And so each of the episodes

01:06:12.400 is really just dipping your toes. And so it's an overview. It gives you big picture stuff.

01:06:17.920 So you can say, okay, in a general sense, 30,000 foot view, I understand what Mormonism is,

01:06:23.600 or I understand what Jehovah's Witness. Obviously, there's much more that can be said. And by the

01:06:28.580 grace of God, there is much more that has been said by these guys. And so you should follow

01:06:33.520 cultish if you don't already check them out join all access with apologia studios and uh and check

01:06:40.460 out cultures the things they've already done and new projects that are on the horizon and then the

01:06:44.960 last thing for us because all the episodes by this point are out for our 10 part series with

01:06:49.600 right response because this is the 10th and final episode um but there is still one more ace up our

01:06:55.480 sleeves we've got um we've got a uh three different um times that we're going to be doing a live q a

01:07:02.560 but only for our Patreons.

01:07:04.980 And part of the intent in doing this

01:07:06.260 is not just an incentive

01:07:07.380 so that people would join Patreon,

01:07:09.220 but it's intentionally to limit the pool a little bit

01:07:13.260 because we want to actually interact with the audience

01:07:16.200 and we just won't be able to interact with a thousand people.

01:07:19.960 But on Patreon, the goal is that there would be,

01:07:23.120 you know, less people would actually participate in this.

01:07:26.500 And so hopefully by doing it three times,

01:07:28.540 we're gonna do an hour and a half each time

01:07:30.280 By doing a live Q&A three times exclusively for our Patreon members, we're hoping that just about everyone will be able to get in at least one question that we can actually answer.

01:07:41.060 So what we're going to do is at the end of the month of July, the end of the month of July and August and September.

01:07:48.920 So by the time you're listening to this, if you're watching on YouTube, then a couple of those Q&As have already come and gone.

01:07:54.740 But we still got at least one more 90-minute Q&A coming up at the end of the month of September.

01:08:01.680 And so I encourage you to go to patreon.com forward slash right response ministries,

01:08:06.200 patreon.com forward slash right response ministries and sign up and get in your question.

01:08:12.060 You can even put it in the comment section way before we actually do the Q&A and get it

01:08:16.380 ahead of time so we can be thinking about it.

01:08:18.760 And because we want to do our best to not just give you the fire hose, you know,

01:08:22.540 10 episode treatment, all this information, all this content. Um, but to be able to follow back

01:08:28.820 up, uh, with some, some of your specific questions and, and do our best to answer them. So thanks

01:08:35.060 for following us with the whole series, the whole season. Thank you guys for doing this. Yep. This

01:08:40.280 has been a marathon. Yeah. I was going to say we finally reached the end of this. So this has

01:08:44.040 really been the, uh, the final end part of the ladder reign of our recording. The final of the

01:08:49.040 ladder of this is the last episode of the last day of the last day exactly technically the final

01:08:55.940 part of the final part will be our patreon yeah there you go exactly so so okay well thank you

01:09:00.900 guys for tuning in and thank you guys for being here and um yeah we just hope that god uses we

01:09:05.800 want sure we hope it's it's entertaining we hope it's intriguing and interesting and not boring

01:09:11.520 in fact you know all those things we want it to be fascinating we want it to be exciting we want

01:09:16.260 it to be good quality content. But most of all, we hope that it's been helpful, that it's been

01:09:21.660 practically and theologically helpful so that you can be equipped by God and the truth of his word

01:09:28.220 to go and win people out of cults for Jesus, to win them into Christ. So thanks. God bless.

The NXR Podcast - September 06, 2024

THE FRIDAY SPECIAL - Jehovah's Witnesses with Cultish

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