The NXR Podcast - THE FRIDAY SPECIAL - Seeker-Sensitive Heretics ｜ Charles Finney, Billy Graham, & Andy Stanley

00:00:00.000 Before the 1820s and 30s, Christianity in America looked more or less like it did in Protestant Europe in the centuries that followed the Reformation.

00:00:08.220 But as the country began to expand westward on the frontier, revivalism began to take over what had been standard, theologically orthodox Protestantism.

00:00:16.540 Men like Charles G. Finney would hold tent revivals with dazzling oratory and salesmanship to generate religious excitement and manipulate the emotions of the crowd to produce conversions.

00:00:26.300 variations of this method eventually became the baseline for evangelical christianity in america

00:00:32.520 the question of how god tells us he wants us to worship him is seldom considered from the very

00:00:39.640 beginning of genesis the place where man encountered the presence of god to worship

00:00:43.720 was the garden after adam was expelled from god's presence in the garden sanctuary

00:00:49.520 men would draw as near to god as they could we see cain and abel doing just this in genesis 4

00:00:55.860 From that point on, we can see that worship is about drawing near to God's special presence on earth.

00:01:02.380 He gave them a sacrificial system in nascent form in Noah,

00:01:06.140 then a detailed process of drawing near under Moses and Aaron.

00:01:09.680 Later, under David and Solomon, respectively, a sacrifice of song was added to the liturgy

00:01:14.840 and a new permanent garden of Eden, the temple, was constructed.

00:01:19.440 God's people would draw near to him, have their sins forgiven, be consecrated to him,

00:01:24.280 offer their tithes and incense and prayers to him,

00:01:27.580 share a meal with their God, and be blessed by him and sent out.

00:01:31.600 In the New Covenant, the big things that have changed

00:01:34.080 is that blood sacrifice is fulfilled by the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

00:01:39.380 With the coming of the Spirit at Pentecost,

00:01:41.340 his people become the living stones of a new temple,

00:01:44.080 and wherever they gather to worship is the temple,

00:01:47.100 the new Garden of Eden, where the presence of the living God dwells on earth.

00:01:51.060 consumeristic christianity making it all about you that's what we have today in evangelicalism

00:01:59.120 when we think of how the church should be structured especially in the lord's day if we

00:02:02.720 think about liturgy at all everybody has a liturgy it's like rc scroll everyone's a theologian

00:02:06.700 you're either a good one or a bad one everybody has a liturgy you know it's either a good one or

00:02:10.920 a bad one but when we think about how we construct the way that we do church everything that you just

00:02:16.400 read it's either about man or it's about god yeah it's either consumeristic what you know what does

00:02:21.700 church do for you or it's god-centered thinking about you know what are we as god's people doing

00:02:28.580 in our worship to honor and glorify him most churches are not geared in that way that's man

00:02:35.280 centered so we need to make liturgy great again right yes that's kind of what we're getting at

00:02:40.120 in this chapter, we're going to make religion greater good.

00:02:41.780 Absolutely.

00:02:42.540 Yeah, it seems like the consumeristic mindset,

00:02:44.960 it fits right into trash world,

00:02:47.780 is what you're saying here.

00:02:48.900 Yeah.

00:02:49.020 Yep, absolutely.

00:02:50.240 And it plays into the individualistic mindset as well, 0.91

00:02:53.740 which seems to be a reoccurring theme of trash world,

00:02:57.180 is that you're all alone.

00:02:59.140 They want you to be isolated, alone,

00:03:02.260 separated from covenant, family,

00:03:05.220 all these kinds of things.

00:03:06.220 And within the church, it really follows suit.

00:03:08.920 So it's consumeristic.

00:03:10.760 It's just about the church is simply providing products on the Lord's Day.

00:03:16.120 It's an event.

00:03:17.560 It's this, it's that.

00:03:18.880 So it's products for you to consume.

00:03:20.960 But it's also in all these products, it's isolating.

00:03:24.240 And what I mean by that is like, think about just worship through song in your typical

00:03:28.620 megachurch.

00:03:30.860 It's not an accident that the lights are turned down low.

00:03:34.060 and the music the volume of the instruments is usually turned up high so it's lights low

00:03:40.780 volume high which accomplishes two primary things it means i can't see others and i can't hear

00:03:48.100 others and that's precisely the point so you know i remember you know one song that i you know that

00:03:53.220 i used to like when i was you know younger and now i'm like well it's you know it may be okay

00:03:58.120 but it's not a good worship song on the lord's day yeah but it was a it's you know there was a

00:04:01.900 a tag in it you know that would repeat as always it's just you and me here now it's only you and me

00:04:09.760 here now yeah i think it was david crowder yeah yeah yeah and so but here's the thing if you're

00:04:16.320 doing that on sunday morning well it's not just you and me here now no right it's precisely not

00:04:22.360 it's not just you and god and it won't just be you and me you know you and god um in heaven either

00:04:29.560 you're going to be sorely disappointed i think there's a lot of christians you know especially a

00:04:34.620 lot of christian women you know that have this erotic kind of romantic view of their relationship

00:04:39.600 with them that when they get to heaven and figure out that it's not just an eternal honeymoon which

00:04:43.600 is jesus and then when they realize that other people are there too they're going to be really

00:04:46.740 disappointed you know and one of the ways that we prepare people for that eternal state is uh that

00:04:52.420 we we go and visit heaven once a week yeah on the day that christ rose from the dead the delectable

00:04:57.440 mountains you know pilgrims progress we get just this glimpse of the celestial city and part of

00:05:02.060 what makes it so celestial part of what makes it heavenly um is god first and foremost but then

00:05:08.000 also the excellent ones in all the earth you know david says like you know that the saints

00:05:12.640 like we're going to see the saints and so in worship from start to finish and it's all worship

00:05:18.280 worship that you know preaching the word praying the word singing the word and seeing the word in

00:05:22.100 the sacraments of the lord's supper and baptism and all these different portions of the liturgy

00:05:26.160 with assurance of pardon, you know, confession of sin, confession of faith, and in all these

00:05:30.700 different elements, none of them are private. They're all public and communal and corporate

00:05:37.700 by nature. And one, just at a practical, just getting painfully practical, for something to

00:05:43.440 be corporate and communal and public, I need to be able to physically hear you and physically see

00:05:50.140 you. But again, Trash World and the church evangelical version of Trash World and the

00:05:55.640 ways that they've adopted trash world, it's not just consumeristic trash world, but it's 0.99

00:06:02.140 individualistic trash world. And that's what I'm trying to say is, I think those two things are 0.98

00:06:06.220 two peas in a pod. They come in a pair. I think that there's very few of us that are innocent

00:06:11.700 in recent times here, because even think of the best churches that you know of where you really

00:06:18.240 believe that the worship is God-centered. They've got a wonderful liturgy. They've got the right

00:06:22.740 kind of uh they don't do the rock concert thing you know like that kind of thing these are the

00:06:26.780 best churches um we were a little too comfortable with doing zoom church for however many weeks we

00:06:32.660 did it um because some of us didn't do it at all and that's great some of us did it for a few weeks

00:06:37.460 some of us did it for a lot longer um we were too comfortable with that because that shows you that

00:06:44.180 that that whole like it it can almost be productized to you right and you were comfortable

00:06:49.800 with it and maybe yeah a lot of people gave lip service to yeah you're going to be back with you

00:06:53.840 not that bad because you could have done it right away right you know what i mean yeah we miss you

00:06:59.800 so much like i'm i'm in every zoom call as my congregation is not there and it's like but pastor

00:07:04.340 you told them they're not allowed to be there yeah and and so you know listen and again so so

00:07:09.500 many of the best of us you know to our shame you know we at the end of the day when the chips were

00:07:15.680 on the table, it was a product that we could just get on video. And okay, it wasn't as good, but

00:07:22.120 it's a replacement. It worked for whatever amount of time.

00:07:26.340 We came back together April 26, 2020. We missed four weeks. And when we came back the first 10

00:07:32.120 minutes of my sermon, I didn't just do a, hey, you're stupid and I know you're stupid. And so 1.00

00:07:37.860 I'm going to pretend that what I'm viewing now is what I viewed all along. I didn't do that.

00:07:42.680 right so i didn't just say you know christ is head of the church and i believe that you know

00:07:46.640 15 minutes ago no you didn't believe that 15 minutes ago this is a new development for you

00:07:51.040 and so let's own it so what i did instead is i spent the first 10 minutes convincing to the best

00:07:56.340 of my ability by the grace of god from the text from romans 13 the same text i previously used

00:08:01.780 wrongly i wanted to convince them from the text this is why you should stay in our church because

00:08:06.360 for all intents and purposes after after the stunt i just pulled for the last four weeks

00:08:10.340 you should leave now the problem is you'd have nowhere to go because everybody else did the same

00:08:14.600 thing and did it worse yeah you know you know but that that said um i sinned yeah and uh and here's

00:08:21.240 what i said um through zoom on romans 13 four weeks ago and here's the same text and why i was

00:08:29.840 wrong and now how it's right so it's not just i changed my mind here's how not just i changed my

00:08:35.200 mind. But in God's grace, in repentance, I actually, as a man, you're the man, Nathan,

00:08:41.780 you know, the prophet pointing, you are the man. You need to change as a man. This is how God has

00:08:46.420 used COVID and this sin of mine, this failure of mine to change my theology, to change my person,

00:08:54.600 to where I'm able to look at the scripture rightly. So it's not just, oh, I'll get it right

00:08:58.820 now. I got it wrong, but I'll get it right now. It was, no, I'll get, by the grace of God, I'm

00:09:05.220 getting it right now, and I'm going to show you how I changed. That way you can trust that I'll

00:09:10.120 get the next one right. Yeah. I think, you know, obviously I have no data for this, but I think

00:09:14.740 that just from anecdotally, we all know, like, if we could plot, like, how correctly ordered

00:09:22.480 a church's worship is um versus terrible um you would see that that that the churches that were

00:09:29.800 more progressive more liberal more awful you know they probably stayed closed longer right you know

00:09:35.060 because they they they you know this is not like we're innocent but what i'm saying is like it's

00:09:40.020 no surprise that the liberal liberalist churches you can imagine uh were closed for a year or two

00:09:45.280 years or something like that and and the churches that had their heads on straight at least better

00:09:49.620 um were four weeks or maybe a couple months or whatever like but like that um without the data

00:09:56.000 i don't have it but honestly at the end of the day like we all kind of know that's true right

00:09:59.780 yeah that's true except the one exception is uh the liberal you know the liberal church uh closes

00:10:07.000 for two years and the more conservative church you know closes for four weeks you know whatever

00:10:10.940 but sadly like the reform camp did terrible on covid oh i'm not saying they did a good job 0.94

00:10:17.620 right yeah i know but what i'm saying is that like uh calvary chapel kicked calvinist butts

00:10:24.080 yeah on covet like i just like i have to own that like i was talking to calvary chapel pastor he

00:10:28.760 came to fight life feast through a lot of charismatics and yeah yeah yeah he passed yeah

00:10:32.480 exactly like and so he came to fight life feast and and uh gabe invited him and he seemed like

00:10:38.080 a great guy and he and we just bumped into each other uh at the airport on our way home and he

00:10:43.480 was you know just talking to me and he's like you know i'm kind of a little bit new to some of this

00:10:46.900 reform stuff especially like the presbyterians so they baptize their babies do they believe that

00:10:50.800 you know that that saves them i was like no it's not baptismal regeneration i was able to explain

00:10:54.600 those kind of things and then but then i just you know he was an older man and i wanted to honor him

00:10:58.140 i said you know but um the reason why gabe probably invited you is because they're going after some of

00:11:02.800 these cultural things they want theology applied and uh he invited you because he knows that you're

00:11:07.620 doing that too i said and the guy he's friends with jack hibbs he's friends with some of these

00:11:11.360 other guys you know in southern california and uh i said i'll just confess like you guys did better

00:11:16.900 than most of the reformed churches on covid you guys had a spine you knew what time it was um

00:11:22.940 you know some of you guys didn't close down at all if you did it was brief but a lot of the reform

00:11:27.260 guys there's two groups that would shut down for over a year these are the guys who did the worst

00:11:32.140 two groups uh purple haired uh female lesbian pastor and westminster escondido yeah those would 0.99

00:11:39.860 be your two groups yeah and we just have to acknowledge that like like the the crazy libtard 0.87

00:11:44.880 as bad as they did on covet uh the radical two kingdom did just as bad yeah yeah yeah because 0.90

00:11:52.900 when it comes to worldly engagement um they're both they're both impotent yeah so well well one

00:12:00.080 is actually more potent than the other you're right one is poison and one's a placebo yeah yeah

00:12:05.920 Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I think, you know, going back to just the nature of modern evangelicalism and the way it operates, how it is, you know, hyper individualistic and consumeristic and those two things are perfectly, you know, fitting together.

00:12:24.720 you think about that a lot of it is so many of these things and it affects the theology as well

00:12:33.140 that i am an individual and you live in this egalitarian world i'm an individual i make all

00:12:39.420 my own decisions i'm i'm the master of my own fate right the captain of my soul and i get to

00:12:47.060 decide everything right so no you know obligations can be put upon me from before i was born or from

00:12:55.500 before i was an adult that can i can make you know adult decisions no i have no obligation so that

00:13:00.960 that affects family right you you are born into a family that you have duties and obligations to

00:13:07.500 you're born into a country that you have duties and obligations to you're born into a community

00:13:12.040 that there are social obligations and duties that you have to those people um you aren't you don't

00:13:18.620 just get to decide all right oh now i'm an american now i'm in isker now i'm you know a member of this

00:13:26.000 thing and that other thing like that that's how god built the world and a covenantal world that

00:13:29.420 you were born into and that you have duties that exist before you arrived and to those who are yet

00:13:36.320 to come right duties responsibilities and yeah we could say traditions yeah it's part of what we're

00:13:41.100 talking like so roger scrutin this is one of the guys that you quote in the book he said

00:13:44.020 in discussing tradition we are not discussing arbitrary rules and conventions we are discussing

00:13:50.260 answers that have been discovered to enduring questions these answers are tacit shared embodied

00:13:57.060 in social practices and in articulate expectations it reminds me of like the gk chesterton like uh

00:14:05.520 before you take down the fence yeah maybe you should figure out why it was put up in the first

00:14:09.060 place well precisely all right i'm just gonna say it this show is fantastic you know it's fantastic

00:14:13.980 i know it's fantastic but i'm willing to admit there is one singular problem the waiting zone

00:14:20.000 right you got to wait a whole week for each new episode of this show to drop on fridays at 4 p.m

00:14:26.000 central time unless you go on over to patreon.com forward slash right response ministries and then

00:14:34.780 you'll be able to binge watch every single episode of an entire season all in one day.

00:14:41.340 So this is a season-based show, right? The whole idea is a deep dive on one singular topic so that

00:14:48.360 you know everything there is to know. Each season comes out in a quarter, right? So a three-month

00:14:53.940 period, anywhere from probably eight to 12 episodes in a season. And the moment that the

00:14:59.300 first episode of a new season drops to the public, then you can go over to patreon.com forward slash

00:15:06.200 right response ministries and watch all of those episodes without having to wait week by week by

00:15:12.700 week for the next episode to publicly drop. So you know what to do. Don't waste any more time.

00:15:19.100 Binge watch the whole season today. And so the hyper individualist and consumerist,

00:15:24.180 egalitarian view of humanity is, well, I don't have any duties or obligations

00:15:30.520 that are here before I existed. I can choose whatever I want. So if I want to go to a church

00:15:36.740 where it has the lights turned down low and the big rock band and the TED Talk that makes me feel

00:15:42.600 good but doesn't really connect to the Bible at all, that's my choice. That's what I want.

00:15:48.100 I don't want to have an obligation to some theological tradition that I didn't decide.

00:15:56.860 I didn't live in the 16th century.

00:15:58.800 I didn't get to write the Westminster Confession.

00:16:02.260 I didn't choose that.

00:16:04.280 Maybe I'll choose different bits and portions of it.

00:16:06.300 I'll go to the buffet and take some of my theology here and some of it there.

00:16:14.860 Those things are imposed upon you.

00:16:17.160 Right.

00:16:17.700 Right. And that is abominable to the bug man, right? Any type of obligation or duty that's

00:16:25.140 imposed upon you is the worst possible thing ever because you want to be atomized. You want

00:16:32.600 to be an individual. You'd want to have no bonds that you didn't choose.

00:16:38.100 But the irony is that the bug man has every bit, he's actually more a slave of tradition

00:16:44.120 than people in past generations were oh yeah uh the difference though is that his tradition

00:16:48.600 uh his indoctrination comes through the form of media it comes through the news it comes through

00:16:53.480 his his 18 years 19 years you know you know of uh study and school and public state you know

00:17:00.860 indoctrination and all these kinds of like he is 100 being uh in you know trained and and shaped

00:17:07.860 and formed through tradition the problem is that it's a it's a tradition that man has arrived at

00:17:13.820 over the last 15 minutes instead of a tradition

00:17:17.440 that has been arrived at over the last 1,500 years

00:17:20.740 and built the world.

00:17:21.960 And it's a tradition that is like in direct opposition

00:17:25.940 to how God created the world, right?

00:17:28.200 It wants to do the opposite of however God built the world.

00:17:31.980 And I mean, the irony too, I always-

00:17:33.940 But Bugman's not original.

00:17:35.140 No, no.

00:17:35.320 He didn't come up with these ideas.

00:17:37.120 They were instilled in him.

00:17:38.020 Yeah, that's the thing is like the,

00:17:40.140 you see these people, you know,

00:17:41.400 I make fun of the Redditor and for good reason,

00:17:43.460 but you see the redditor type person right and what will they tell you they maybe have the bumper

00:17:49.700 sticker on their car on their laptop that says i'm a free thinker i'm an independent thinker

00:17:54.400 and they've always been told you're an independent thinker and the irony is anytime i encounter

00:17:58.400 a person who who self-identifies as a free thinker an independent thinker universally

00:18:05.720 i can know exactly what they think about every single yeah any topic i know exactly what they

00:18:12.960 think they're the least independent minded people ever but they're told well you're an individual

00:18:16.940 you you decide whatever it is you believe and you just so happen to believe what every other

00:18:21.600 independent thinker believes right they're all programmed to believe this stuff they they they've

00:18:26.740 never had an independent thought because they're terrified of uh getting getting away from the

00:18:32.160 herd right they're terrified of that and so you know i i always tell people i'm like i'm not an

00:18:37.620 independent thinker everything i think somebody else somewhere has thought before right and i

00:18:42.480 just agreed with them yeah right yeah the already is like i'm i have all sorts of different ideas

00:18:49.280 they're unconventional and that's the reality for everybody nobody really is an independent

00:18:52.400 thinker in that sense so so then we're all echoing you know we're all simply agreeing with the

00:18:56.960 thoughts of somebody else so then the question is am i agreeing with somebody's thoughts that

00:19:00.540 that you know this person had these thoughts uh last thursday or am i agreeing with somebody who

00:19:04.840 had these thoughts you know over centuries and do they correspond with reality yeah do they

00:19:09.320 correspond yeah do they correspond with reality and one of the ways you can tell that is one just

00:19:14.000 look at the scripture look at nature but then two uh look at the fruit yeah um so like do do these

00:19:19.540 thoughts when followed by large swaths of society over any amount of time whatsoever uh does it uh

00:19:27.220 end the entire human race because it stops reproduction all right there's a great question

00:19:31.900 or does it just make it miserable existence for everyone or not like yeah the proof is in the 0.70

00:19:36.740 pudding and and the proof of of trash world is that it is a miserable place and it's been made

00:19:43.400 that way purposefully because the people at the top it's a good place for them right they they

00:19:49.220 get a lot of wealth and they got a lot of luxury the the irony too is like the the birth rates of

00:19:53.980 like the the top percent of like um wealthiest people in america are some of the highest right

00:20:00.540 they're having families they're having kids um and and they're they're they're enjoying the life

00:20:05.720 that virtually everyone used to enjoy,

00:20:08.200 but at everyone else's expense, right?

00:20:11.080 They've ground under,

00:20:12.460 they've plowed under the society that we used to have.

00:20:16.180 And it has provided a tremendous amount of wealth

00:20:18.800 for a very small number of people,

00:20:21.000 but that the bill is going to come due

00:20:23.360 and is coming due right now for it.

00:20:25.920 So when we talk about, you know,

00:20:27.680 so we've talked in all these episodes,

00:20:29.520 these last few episodes,

00:20:30.900 we're going to talk about building Christendom

00:20:32.520 in the place of Dollar's Oak.

00:20:34.260 All the previous episodes,

00:20:35.560 if you've made it this far we're about you know how to chop down sharpen the axe and chop down

00:20:40.200 you know donner's oak now we're talking about you know rebuilding christendom and not just the

00:20:45.480 problem but the solution and so what we're saying is you know that that the tip of the spear uh is

00:20:52.520 worship that worship is warfare that's the tip of the sphere it's it's the first day of the week

00:20:57.080 uh that you know when i was thinking about you know moving to georgetown texas i thought the

00:21:00.600 the first thing that I need to do is plant a church.

00:21:02.740 We need a church.

00:21:04.240 And then I knew that I needed a school education

00:21:08.000 and I also needed media.

00:21:10.180 And so we're working on, Lord willing,

00:21:12.580 St. George Classical Academy.

00:21:15.420 And then we're working with Right Response,

00:21:18.000 building that out with media.

00:21:19.420 And then the men in the church,

00:21:20.620 we're working with them individually,

00:21:22.540 just encouraging them and giving counsel

00:21:24.840 and inspiring one another,

00:21:26.580 but to start businesses

00:21:28.200 and then encouraging people towards having children

00:21:30.120 and all these kinds of things, and owning property, that's a big one.

00:21:33.860 But the tip of the spear is we can get to some of those later things,

00:21:37.420 but for now, talking about worship, we need a church, we need worship,

00:21:41.940 but there's a lot of churches that aren't nearly as potent as they could be or should be.

00:21:46.560 So in this, we're talking about tradition, not being a free thinker,

00:21:50.940 but being rooted in a tradition, being rooted in covenant and a past and a heritage,

00:21:55.960 but then but then applying that to the church world the lord's day so we're talking about

00:22:01.220 liturgy yeah so as we talk about liturgy like what is it because a lot of the listeners may

00:22:06.100 not go to liturgical church they may not even know what liturgy is yeah so what what like what

00:22:11.960 are like can can you guys even say like what are what are some things you know on sunday morning

00:22:17.660 getting painfully practical yeah like sunday morning what does a sunday morning service look

00:22:21.540 like in a healthy church yeah well you want to go first or no i think well i'm the only one that's

00:22:27.500 not a pastor yeah that's fair i could share what we do but but you go ahead first well i can give

00:22:34.400 i can i can say some of some of what i said in the book that um you know the the traditional

00:22:39.700 protestant liturgies and really just traditional western liturgies um all are basically the same

00:22:46.660 of course there's all different there's all different variations you know whether you look

00:22:50.540 at Lutheran or Anglican or Presbyterian. Even Baptists even had liturgies before the 20th

00:22:57.860 century, right? Everybody had them, and it's an order of service, and the direction it goes,

00:23:04.280 usually there's a call or at least some kind of entrance. Then there is a confession of sin,

00:23:11.400 and some people, especially in a hyper-individualistic megachurch world,

00:23:16.480 they think like confession of sin, well, that's just repeating stuff that you don't really believe,

00:23:19.920 and it's like well i don't know when you said your wedding vows right you repeated those do you

00:23:25.040 believe that or you have to tell your wife something now you know like that's part of the

00:23:28.860 problem every even with wedding vows everybody writes their own now yeah yeah exactly it has

00:23:32.820 to be original exactly and it's like what no you or when you you sing the national anthem or said

00:23:37.920 the pledge of allegiance when you're a kid did you not believe that when you were saying it because

00:23:41.060 someone else wrote that down it's like well of course right so you you confess your sin and

00:23:45.720 actually it teaches you how to confess your sin there's psalms that are confessions of sin like

00:23:49.700 psalm 51 and and so right that's that's totally fine to to learn from the bible or from you know

00:23:59.360 theological tradition how do other christians confess their sins right because you you enter

00:24:03.660 you're going into god's presence that's the the view and that that has always been the view of

00:24:08.440 of worship on the lord's day um for thousands of years is not we're going to go some religious

00:24:14.580 event right some religious production and consume religious entertainment no god's presence is here

00:24:21.640 on the earth because his people are gathered together the temple and it's not the temple

00:24:26.100 the building it's not because we entered into this building that is the temple it's because

00:24:29.940 we entered it together and we the people like living stones are coming together as this new

00:24:35.120 testament temple yeah and and christ is there present among us yes and so as we enter in we're

00:24:41.420 drawing near to god and all throughout the bible that's what that's what's going on is is god's

00:24:45.720 people are drawing near to him that's that's how it's described throughout the old testament is

00:24:49.840 drawing near and calling upon god's name that's that's what worship is and so as god's people

00:24:55.400 draw near they draw near as as a sinful people and you see this i mean this is why like leviticus is

00:25:00.160 not you know um this boring book that doesn't matter that we shouldn't read it's actually

00:25:05.360 really important because that's a book that where god teaches his people in the old covenant here's

00:25:10.340 how you draw near to me right here's what you must do to draw near to me and of course we're not

00:25:14.940 bound by the same laws in the same way that that the ancient israelites were right we are we're

00:25:21.080 liberated into a new covenant but there's still wisdom there in thinking well god had a plan and

00:25:26.400 a description of how to draw near is there anything we can glean from that and you see the order of

00:25:31.700 of the sacrifices that were done in leviticus chapter 9 and first god calls his people into

00:25:37.400 their presence and then the very first sacrifice right is the sin offering right you're you're

00:25:43.400 and what is that what's it's god's people confessing their sins right they're confessing

00:25:47.120 their sins we're sinful people and we need your grace to forgive us and he forgives them their sin

00:25:52.720 then they offer this ascension offering right and the ascension offering is this animal this whole

00:25:57.500 animal that represents the worshiper and he's burnt it's you know burned up entirely right 0.92

00:26:02.660 That's where the, it's called an Ola, right? 0.93

00:26:04.900 It's usually called a burnt offering. 0.66

00:26:06.920 And that's where the word Holocaust comes from. 0.67

00:26:09.460 And so the whole thing ascends up to God in smoke. 0.76

00:26:12.820 And so that's you ascending up to God in smoke.

00:26:14.920 And that's the part where Bible is read, right?

00:26:20.460 And what is the Bible?

00:26:22.160 It's the sharp two-edged sword, 0.52

00:26:23.840 like the sword the priest has that cuts people up

00:26:26.460 to be offered on the altar to go up as a living sacrifice.

00:26:30.420 15 16 as a living sacrifice cut in half yeah yep exactly and you're smoking like in romans you know

00:26:38.120 chapter 12 like you were living sacrifice what does that mean well you're being cut up by the

00:26:41.620 word of god and and by and and ascending on the fire of the spirit which is the new altar and

00:26:47.060 you're going up to god right that's what the ascension is so god's word is read god's word

00:26:51.180 is preached and then afterward you give your tribute offering and and all the traditional

00:26:56.020 liturgies had this where you have off your tithes and offerings and then you would have corporate

00:27:00.700 prayer right the along with the grain offering is the incense offering so you burn you burn up the

00:27:05.660 incense and incense repeatedly is prayer right you're offering your prayers up to god and then

00:27:10.560 the last one was always the peace offering right well what's the peace offering peace offering is

00:27:15.680 the one where the the priests you know offer this animal up and they get a portion of it and they

00:27:20.940 offer a portion to god and you get a portion of it so you're all eating this together eating this

00:27:26.200 this meal and the the peace offering of peace offerings was the passover right right well

00:27:31.080 we have something even greater than that which is the lord's supper and so at the very end the

00:27:35.320 lord's supper is celebrated and then then the people are are blessed and they're sent out that's

00:27:39.300 what happens in leviticus 9 and it perfectly parallels you know the traditional liturgies

00:27:44.640 of the churches sometimes they're out of order in different orders and things like that but more

00:27:48.200 All the aspects of it are right there.

00:27:51.900 And that's way different than just like, oh, I'm going to go hear a band, play some songs, hear a short TED talk, and then a couple more songs to get me really riled up, and then I go home.

00:28:04.880 Right.

00:28:05.180 Right.

00:28:05.660 And we maybe have the Lord's Supper twice a year.

00:28:08.520 Yeah.

00:28:08.980 Yeah.

00:28:09.340 And it's a little saltine cracker and some grape juice.

00:28:12.720 It's not like a hunk of bread and some wine.

00:28:14.920 Right.

00:28:15.100 and and and so like that that's um way different and part of it too is you you'll have corporate

00:28:21.320 participation you'll have congregational participation in this where you'll send

00:28:25.040 people like freak out when they hear a call and response stuff because they think well that's

00:28:29.080 roman catholic i could never do that uh but what's actually occurring and the irony there too is

00:28:34.700 like roman like medieval roman catholicism the congregation was silent before the reformation

00:28:41.460 they just sat there and these people like if you're like my ancestors ancestors were in germany

00:28:48.020 right they didn't speak latin they spoke german right and but the priest is doing everything in

00:28:52.020 german so you don't understand anything going on and of course some people knew latin but

00:28:56.840 for the most part you you have to you you have to hear this service done in a totally foreign

00:29:02.360 language and you're silent the entire time uh the religious professionals they're doing their thing

00:29:09.460 and and then you'd maybe have communion um very rarely and you would only get bread you wouldn't

00:29:15.840 get any wine right because you'd spill it and it's yeah and it's like and what does that sound

00:29:20.480 like i mean it sounds exactly like modern uh contemporary worship where the congregation's

00:29:25.680 silent they don't participate in any way at all the religious professionals are up there doing

00:29:29.600 their thing and you don't get any really get any bible at all no bible teaching right um and uh

00:29:36.940 you don't ever get communion and when you do it's like a little cracker and you don't get any wine

00:29:40.180 it's mega church yeah it's it's no different right roman catholic no i love that you said that roman

00:29:44.440 catholicism especially during the medieval uh period it's not guys who are you know trying to

00:29:49.000 be liturgical today within the protestant vein are not mimicking rome the mega church guys are

00:29:54.260 actually mimicking rome yeah even with you know so like you have the the you know the religious

00:29:59.000 professionals doing their thing but part of their thing that they were doing isn't it's not even just

00:30:03.500 this thing of substance that the people can't understand because they speak a different language

00:30:07.040 uh they some of these guys were literally trained in and uh not just in substance or theology but

00:30:13.180 in hand motions it was about it was the aesthetic it was having these robes these tassels this

00:30:20.500 candle this book this incense this smell like it was it was about setting this smoke machine this

00:30:26.680 lighting you know like it's the same thing it's like oh he moves his hands like this like that's

00:30:30.680 literally where we get the phrase hocus pocus from yeah yeah hocus pocus is i i don't know how

00:30:34.840 to say it but from the latin what the priest would say do you know it's like corpus yeah yeah

00:30:39.020 or something yeah yeah and like and so when he was that's what he would say when he was actually

00:30:44.200 you know performing transubstantiation you know and turning you know the eucharist into the the

00:30:49.000 physical flesh and blood of christ you know um he would utter that phrase and the hocus pocus that 0.61

00:30:54.440 came from you know the common neanderthal people who didn't speak latin and they're like hocus pocus

00:30:59.760 is a spell it turns magic it turns it into jesus right it turns it into jesus so still to this day

00:31:04.740 like that phrase of hocus you know we'll say that about that's some hocus pocus yeah you get that

00:31:09.220 from rome yeah like the written house trial you know hocus pocus out of focus

00:31:12.740 the danger of centralized power is often represented by the word king

00:31:19.840 as americans we hate the word king civilian ownership of body armor is about helping people

00:31:27.860 to have increased power to resist tyrants and criminals.

00:31:32.820 And so Armored Republic is about helping you

00:31:35.700 to preserve your God-given rights

00:31:37.320 to the honor of the Lord Jesus Christ

00:31:39.260 because he is the king of kings

00:31:41.240 and he governs kings and he will judge them.

00:31:44.900 This is Armored Republic

00:31:46.180 and in a republic, there is no king but Christ.

00:31:51.040 We are free craftsmen

00:31:52.280 and we are honored to be your Armorsmith choice.

00:31:57.860 so anyways yeah so all that being said i love that you made the connection of like

00:32:12.220 the non-liturgical mega church ted talk smoke machine laser light concert lights turns down

00:32:18.380 like that uh thing today that that that doesn't have much of a liturgy you know to speak of that

00:32:26.300 has way more that there's a straight line to be drawn there from roman catholicism to those guys

00:32:31.820 the protestants are the ones who are saying no no no the table it matters uh but but first and

00:32:36.800 foremost central is going to be the pulpit the word preached that the table uh accompanies uh

00:32:42.120 the word preached um and and it is going to be liturgical but it's going to be of substance that

00:32:47.200 people can understand yeah the people will understand and you know the irony too is like

00:32:51.680 Everyone thinks, okay, yeah, any kind of formal liturgy, that's Roman Catholic.

00:32:57.060 It's like what exists now within the Catholic Church was a response to the Protestants.

00:33:03.440 The Protestant Reformation was fundamentally not just doctrinal and changing and correcting views of soteriology.

00:33:11.640 It was liturgical.

00:33:12.440 It was correcting all the problems in the papist understanding of worship and how they did worship.

00:33:22.140 And honestly, that's what we need badly now in evangelicalism is a total reformation of how we do worship and going back to how Protestants worshipped and even advancing beyond, even looking more into the scripture and understanding the entire scripture in the Old Testament.

00:33:39.860 How did God's people approach him?

00:33:41.440 How did they draw near?

00:33:42.440 Um, what, what, what should our church buildings look like, right? Is it okay to have beautiful

00:33:46.720 buildings, right? Is, is that okay? Or do they have to be austere like Puritan churches, right?

00:33:51.260 Uh, thinking through those things, well, the, the temple was beautiful. Are we allowed to

00:33:54.620 do something similar? You know, things like that. Is it, um, are, you know, particular

00:33:59.460 forms of dress for pastors, right? Something that we should do, right? The, the priests had robes,

00:34:05.360 we don't have priests in the same way now. Uh, but they had, their vocation was called out in

00:34:10.140 a particular way. I mean, Jesus had a particular garment that he wore too, that was like a priest

00:34:16.280 actually. And so should we have our pastors in business suits? Should we have them in skinny

00:34:21.920 jeans and a V-neck? How should our pastors dress? Asking those questions and asking,

00:34:27.220 well, what does God want us to do? Looking into the scripture and saying, what does he want us

00:34:30.760 to do? That's what we desperately need. And I even mentioned in there, the other thing that

00:34:37.300 happens in this hyper-consumeristic mindset within everything, but in particular the church,

00:34:43.360 is you can have liturgical churches, and that's their marketing point, is we're authentic because

00:34:49.460 we have this old liturgy and come to our church because it's way more real. And then that becomes

00:34:55.780 a consumeristic thing that you're selling as well. It's like, oh, we're just trying to round up the

00:34:59.880 people that want this. And when it's like, no, this is just how it should be. This is what God

00:35:07.280 it's where it teaches and and that's where where the change has to happen is um the leadership of

00:35:14.080 the church is beginning to pursue what god wants in the bible and not what is pragmatically um you

00:35:20.800 know advantageous yeah what's gonna what's gonna really build our church and grow it because this

00:35:25.420 is what the people want you know because you see so many absurdities i mean just disgusting there

00:35:30.340 there was uh i think a church in in one our my old town of springfield missouri where they

00:35:35.920 they had like you know chuck norris driving a tank and like all the you know fireworks going

00:35:42.140 off in this big stadium thing and it's like oh wow that's a cool church i want to go there you

00:35:46.260 know it's like it's just disgusting you know yeah yeah but you're right like we we do have to be

00:35:53.900 aware though that um anything anything that's uh that can be marketed will be marketed yeah and so

00:36:01.320 i think that there is a return ad and i talked about this on a separate episode um a while back

00:36:08.080 but i think that there is going to be a return to especially with ai there's so many things in trash

00:36:13.700 world so tying it with that like what we're talking about is something that has substance

00:36:17.300 that's transcendent right so the trans bringing bringing back the transcendence um that you're not

00:36:23.380 uh the the central focus of the story that you're uh not atomized you're a part of something

00:36:28.640 a bigger thing you know so even like stained glass windows you know where it's like this mosaic you

00:36:32.920 know piece of the whole uh high silk ceilings right it's like you know the theology and the

00:36:38.020 architecture you know angels in the architecture that that kind of thing uh so bringing back

00:36:41.880 transcendence and then doing that you know with with just the the place that you meet the way 0.86

00:36:45.380 that it looks but then your liturgy and the way but here what i'm saying is trash world is fake

00:36:51.640 um and and and it's it's it's so fake that uh you know ai even being not saying that ai is

00:37:00.160 inherently bad um i think it can be used as a tool but we are entering i mean we're right on

00:37:05.500 the cusp of entering into a season of of human history where it's going to be really hard to

00:37:10.800 know what's real yeah and so all that being said i think there's going to be an even deeper desire

00:37:17.500 and demand for the old the tried the true you know the traditional that now that said

00:37:25.260 people always want to make a buck so so if we need i think to be aware that they're going to

00:37:32.180 be a bunch of guys who have uh who are absolute liberal progressive god hating you know purple

00:37:38.580 haired you know whatever they like they don't have any of our reasons that we're discussing

00:37:43.140 right now. So for an entirely different set of reasons, but they still are going to try to

00:37:48.780 execute some of the same tools. They're going to say, oh, liturgy, robes, tassels, high ceilings,

00:37:55.760 old church buildings, stained glass. Look at the size of this Bible. It's coming down. Look at

00:38:01.900 that candle, smell that incense. They're going to be doing it. And this is already happening.

00:38:07.840 I'm just saying, I think it's going to exponentially increase. But right now,

00:38:10.720 You can find some of the most traditional churches in terms of aesthetic and liturgy. 0.96

00:38:15.320 And in those same churches, that's where they ordain gay priests. 0.85

00:38:18.820 No, no. 0.97

00:38:19.580 No, they already do that.

00:38:20.680 I think partly, that's always one of the objections.

00:38:23.260 It's like, well, the ELCA and the UMC and the Episcopal Church, they have these beautiful

00:38:30.040 liturgies too.

00:38:30.780 And it's like, yeah.

00:38:31.780 And those were taken over a long time ago for that reason, because they have the beautiful

00:38:38.000 building the beautiful liturgy and that was attacked first i mean those churches like these

00:38:43.580 ones i mean there's there's one i think it's an episcopal cathedral in in pittsburgh i remember

00:38:47.660 seeing it one time and it's just gorgeous and then you i looked it up on the internet and i'm like oh

00:38:52.220 my goodness what do they these people believe oh and uh but it was built in like the the late 1700s

00:38:59.860 right right there on the stone like when that thing was built those people actually believe

00:39:05.780 the gospel and believed all the doctrine that they that the church traditionally held to and

00:39:11.200 it was the first these denominations were the first ones taken over because satan wanted to

00:39:15.000 subvert them right because they had deep cultural power in our country right right i mean part of

00:39:22.340 the reason our country is the way it is is because all the mainline churches apostatized right right

00:39:27.000 and it's not because like that was just bound to happen inexorably it's because those those ones

00:39:33.460 had cultural and religious power in our country and have made it the way that it is they were

00:39:38.980 under attack yeah and so that it's the op like the ejection it's like you kind of have to turn

00:39:43.840 it on its head it's like no those those were attacked that way uh when they were because

00:39:50.120 they had the best things going for them in that moment this is why you can't give any of this

00:39:55.980 any quarter because you know i can't imagine that that that takeover at the episcopal churches or

00:40:01.300 wherever happened overnight. You know, it happened with you tolerating a lot of little things and

00:40:07.360 incrementally. Oh, maybe the virgin birth didn't happen, you know, things like that. Right.

00:40:11.700 150 years ago. Exactly. And it's, and this is the thing, man, like it's okay for, you get these

00:40:19.300 different controversies, whether it's gay Christianity, whatever it is. And people start

00:40:24.000 to have these conversations about it, you know, and they start to set up dialogues about it and

00:40:27.760 we're going to do this or that maybe homosexuality is it not really a sin kind of is you know

00:40:33.520 contumency i don't know you know i personally believe that that that you know sometimes it's

00:40:39.020 okay for a pastor to say actually no we're not talking about that yeah no discussion shut it

00:40:43.220 down yeah because it's just like that analogy you had with the little leaf yeah you know you

00:40:47.720 could just pluck it out yeah and get rid of it before it grows because that that's the thing

00:40:52.040 man like they're they're trying all the same kind of plays on the churches now that are that are in

00:40:57.180 warehouses instead of the the cathedrals they're they're just warehouses but they're good churches

00:41:02.220 yeah and they're you know installing a you know female director of evangelism and maybe we can

00:41:07.560 get away with you know churches do studies like this i mean the village church matt chandler's

00:41:12.180 church did a whole thing about how you know we're gonna put women everywhere where we can feasibly

00:41:16.120 get away with arguing that it's okay yeah yeah yeah you got to cut that at the root yeah right 0.99

00:41:21.080 in fact i would argue maybe you shouldn't employ a single woman yeah because that's what time it 0.68

00:41:26.340 is it's not time for playing around you know what i mean yeah so but what about a secretary nope

00:41:30.900 hire a guy like yeah that'd be like seriously that would be great just like to say you know 1.00

00:41:35.480 we know what time it is like the sons of vizikar yeah um the world hates women they say that they 0.82

00:41:40.280 love women but they hate women they don't want women to be able to be with their children yeah 0.98

00:41:43.420 they don't want them to have children if they do have children they want someone else to raise them 1.00

00:41:46.600 at all these different levels and we just you know uh even maybe there are a few places where

00:41:51.140 it would be appropriate but we're going to decide in this cultural moment we're not going to have

00:41:55.140 any female staff that's just a good it's just a good to prevent any of the confusion from ever

00:42:00.660 right yeah it's a good flag to go ahead and raise it just and this is how it happens if you don't

00:42:05.880 do that then what's going to end up happening is you know there's going to be some someone to come

00:42:10.340 in and say you know is that is that female secretary really happy here and then you're 1.00

00:42:14.400 going to find out that you know no there's a lot of misogyny here what she means by too many men 1.00

00:42:19.520 right right what she means by misogyny is is you know who knows what she means and then you do the

00:42:24.320 case study of reevaluating everything we do. And then you got to, you know, be anti-racist or

00:42:28.520 whatever. And then that's how it gets a foothold. Yeah. So, so look, that's not to say that every

00:42:33.480 female secretary out there is going to do this. Or that if you have a church secretary, you need

00:42:37.660 to fire her. Right. Not saying that, but what I am saying is that, you know, you know, when you 0.71

00:42:44.240 have the problem that comes to you, it is okay to metaphorically crack some skulls instantly

00:42:51.660 yeah without even giving any quarter to it at all right no quote no i think you're absolutely right

00:42:56.580 it's and it's the same with like military like we are at war the church is at war the church here on

00:43:01.460 earth is militant um and and when you think of like the military uh having you know even if it's

00:43:07.920 still majority male uh in combat just putting one woman in a troop and dangers the whole you know

00:43:14.400 it's like ron burgundy it's like you hear that bears bears are attracted to the menstruation 0.84

00:43:18.500 you put the whole station in jeopardy yeah look at that ron you put the whole station in jeopardy 0.93

00:43:23.280 no but but you know now that's being humorous but in a real sense in the military you put a woman

00:43:27.660 in combat and and everyone in her proximity is now in in added danger not just the internal 0.53

00:43:33.480 danger of that she could say well so and so raped me or god forbid he actually could do that the

00:43:38.440 temptation all those kinds of things but also in danger like if she gets captured uh much greater 0.55

00:43:44.140 likelihood of her selling out everybody else oh they're over there like to spare her own life

00:43:48.700 she's a woman she's not a man um slowing them down she can't carry as much she's a liability

00:43:53.620 it puts it's not just that she's in and she's a particular target yeah all this yeah exactly so

00:43:58.340 it's not just that she herself is in danger and that's enough reason that we're called to protect

00:44:02.100 women but she also endangers everyone else and in this moment like i mean we have to think in a

00:44:07.600 militant sense and like that right now um our culture that our our regime lords of trash world 0.77

00:44:14.820 they want to uh destroy the church we've already seen it in the sbc you know hashtag uh church too

00:44:21.120 you know me too kind of thing like all that kind of stuff that you know rachel uh den hollander and

00:44:25.920 all these all these snakes and so if that's what time it is then yeah maybe you can't afford to

00:44:32.720 have a single employee that is and again not saying that like okay so go fire you know sister

00:44:38.780 betty who's you know who's 65 years old and a widow who's worked for the church for 40 years

00:44:43.380 secretary right yeah so okay so so use some prudence and take it with a grain of salt but

00:44:47.180 if you're a church planter if you don't already have someone who's on staff yeah ad is absolutely

00:44:52.320 right let's not we're seeing wake up know the time den hollander is a sad example of this because

00:45:00.080 you know many people saw the danger for what it was and but but nobody could have imagined how

00:45:06.560 dangerous she actually is yeah yeah and it's all it's all coming out now like what's going on with

00:45:11.720 all that and it's just like that's a disaster and it should have been nipped in the bud immediately

00:45:17.660 it's one thing to have people that hate you and are bent hell bent on destroying you but it's

00:45:23.440 another when the church becomes so emasculated so castrated so i don't know i'll stop there

00:45:32.860 so bad castrate is pretty bad yeah so bad i was going to say even worse but so bad and it would

00:45:38.440 have been appropriate but but it just some people would tune it out and they missed my point but

00:45:42.720 when the church it's one thing when when the devils the demons um hate you enough to like

00:45:49.020 they're they're going to attack you and seek to destroy you it's another when uh when the church 0.59

00:45:53.760 pays them to do it yeah that's the sbc the sbc is like hey demons you know human demon hybrids 0.60

00:46:02.440 over there you want us to like you want us to be destroyed um can we give you money to do that 1.00

00:46:10.160 yeah have at it can we pay you to do that that's literally what what you had you had a woman walk

00:46:15.760 into the office and say just lower all of your defenses and they said okay okay yeah all right

00:46:22.800 sure and that's what happened yeah will you like us now yeah yeah yeah and and i just think i mean

00:46:30.200 so much of it and all of these types of things is you know the churches they get attacked and yet

00:46:36.560 you see like the spc is the the big target now because that's the you know reasonably conservative

00:46:42.980 sure yeah very large evangelical that'd be a big there's nothing that size that conservative

00:46:49.480 yeah exactly nothing whether it whether you're talking about church or anything political like

00:46:54.420 that's that's the a huge huge target and so yeah you could see why they why they do these things

00:47:00.880 and and i look at it and i think like all right imagine if a huge chunk of sbc churches began to

00:47:08.100 adopt a traditional liturgy and began to say, and we're going to do this because it's not

00:47:13.820 pragmatic. It's the opposite of pragmatic. It's asking, what does God want us to do? What does

00:47:18.600 his word say that he wants us to do? And then you, you begin to kind of backfill this really

00:47:24.880 having a spine, right? Saying, we're not going to do this because this is going to make everybody

00:47:29.400 happy. We're going to do this because we think this is more faithful. Like if you, if you begin

00:47:33.780 to change that that form of worship um it has an effect on the people as a whole that's why when

00:47:40.840 people like um you know steven wolf is like really critical of of when people say worship is warfare

00:47:45.960 and i i get why i get why he is i totally get it because people use it as a cope where it's like

00:47:50.680 oh we just faithfully worship uh step one faithfully worship step two question mark step

00:47:57.500 three prophet right like uh that's that's what he's critiquing he's right no it's step one

00:48:02.560 worship step two question mark step three five thousand years step four yeah we're so bad exactly

00:48:07.880 exactly and that's what he doesn't like yeah yeah his contention against the worship is warfare

00:48:12.340 it's the same contention against post-millennialism yeah yeah like he's fine with it if if you're a

00:48:16.660 serious person yeah if if it's not just a cope for inaction right right and he's right about that

00:48:21.680 but in in the in the real sense right worship is warfare because what should be doing is it should

00:48:27.580 be stealing your spine, right? Because you're gathering before God as his army, you're chanting

00:48:32.560 his war songs and singing his war songs and, and hearing his order, right? As the general to his

00:48:38.760 people, all right, here's what you're going to go do. Here's how you go attack.

00:48:42.040 Praying imprecatory songs.

00:48:44.740 Yeah. And asking him, right? Deliver us from our enemies.

00:48:48.120 Right.

00:48:48.620 And, and, and then sharing a victory meal with him every week, right? If worship is that,

00:48:54.580 then the church is an army that's going out into the world and conquering right right and and so

00:48:59.000 if you had like 10 of sbc churches viewing worship that way right how much would america change

00:49:05.220 quickly right right then it wouldn't be like worship is warfare 5 000 years question mark you

00:49:10.200 know we're so back right then it would be five years and we're so back we're so back you know

00:49:16.880 and that's that that's why i think it's this way is it's not like oh well i made my consumeristic

00:49:24.280 choice that i just really like the aesthetic of of a traditional liturgy and it feels so warm and

00:49:29.520 cozy and holy and right and i just like it it's like no i'm persuaded that that the tradition

00:49:34.840 that we've uh forsaken was a good one that the how stems from the why we do things in such a way

00:49:41.380 because we believe certain things about god about this world about you know yeah and and one of the

00:49:46.720 things that you believe like again you know building a cathedral just talking about the

00:49:49.880 building itself. One of the things you believe is that Christ may tarry. You believe that it may be

00:49:55.600 God's intention that we actually, that Christ redeems the world progressively throughout this

00:50:00.880 gospel age through his body here on earth, which is the church, that Christ is actually not just

00:50:07.460 in salvation, saving individual eternal souls. He is doing that. It's never less than that.

00:50:14.020 but that by saving individual people and then gathering them into a covenant body,

00:50:20.700 his body, and then sending them back out Monday through Saturday, that Christ is actually not

00:50:26.980 just redeeming individual people, but then through them restoring the world. Everybody's

00:50:32.780 post-mill around Christmas time. He comes to make his blessings flow as far as the curse is found.

00:50:38.540 Do we believe that? And I do. I believe that the only thing that won't be

00:50:43.660 ultimately reversed until christ himself returns is death yeah that that'll be the last not the

00:50:49.300 first but the last of his enemies to be defeated yeah but that even when this when this occurs

00:50:54.080 when christ finally does return and defeats death that people will be dying up until then but even

00:50:59.560 death will be different in the sense that the youth will die at a hundred that no longer will

00:51:03.720 anyone die in infancy and that would that means abortion is completely abolished uh but then also

00:51:08.440 you know sits those guys that no more he has made his blessings flow as far as the curse is found

00:51:15.740 uh that that you know swords are beaten into plowshares and these kinds of things that there

00:51:20.180 is a great victory that christ his gospel is potent it is militant um and it's victorious

00:51:27.240 it is actually victorious but it all starts with worship worship is not uh it's not um for women

00:51:34.780 only it is for women but it but worship is masculine it is it's a militant cry to war

00:51:42.060 and and if people believe that so all that being said this is this is not just talking about the

00:51:46.440 problems of trash world with this episode we're beginning with these last couple ones uh we're

00:51:50.940 beginning to talking about the solution and the first thing is uh church worship yeah the lord's

00:51:56.440 day any any final thoughts that you guys have no i mean i think i think what andrew said is so right

00:52:00.360 You know, it's, it's, it's, it's about, it's about stealing yourself for every area of

00:52:05.520 your life.

00:52:06.300 You know, if you know that you, you know, you, you went to church on Sunday, you were

00:52:10.960 forgiven of your sins.

00:52:12.260 You didn't hide your sins.

00:52:13.420 You, you, you brought them to the Lord.

00:52:14.920 You were forgiven of your sins.

00:52:16.760 You know, you heard, you knew, heard from him, you know, they, he chopped you up and

00:52:21.160 then you had this, this meal, you know, it's squashed, right?

00:52:25.600 You know, it's squashed.

00:52:26.440 and so you're in a position to move forward

00:52:29.040 and to do the things you need to do.

00:52:31.340 That is a very powerful thing.

00:52:33.480 And it's not just about aesthetics,

00:52:35.620 but it is aesthetics.

00:52:36.760 That's a part of it too.

00:52:39.400 When you know that you've got a group of people,

00:52:41.560 not only is it just you,

00:52:42.740 it's a group of people that all went through the same thing.

00:52:46.260 They had their sins forgiven.

00:52:47.980 They're all ready to go.

00:52:50.020 And that's a pretty powerful thing for sure.

00:52:53.680 It is.

00:52:54.440 Yep.

00:52:54.880 All right.

00:52:55.500 Thanks for tuning in.

00:52:56.180 did you like the episode? Great. You want to watch the next one? Wait a whole week or go to

00:53:01.400 patreon.com right response ministries again, patreon.com right response ministries binge

00:53:09.260 the whole season right now. What are you waiting for?

The NXR Podcast - February 17, 2024

THE FRIDAY SPECIAL - Seeker-Sensitive Heretics ｜ Charles Finney, Billy Graham, & Andy Stanley

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