The NXR Podcast - THE FRIDAY SPECIAL - The Grays ｜ Ep 7 with @TheCultishShow

00:00:00.880 There is one dominant concept within the realm of ufology which describes a specific type of extraterrestrial being.

00:00:10.020 They are often depicted as small, hairless, humanoid creatures with large heads, almond-shaped eyes, and gray-colored skin.

00:00:19.520 This depiction gained prominence in the latter half of the 20th century through various accounts of alleged alien encounters and abductions.

00:00:28.680 The concept of the Greys has been popularized in a plethora of books, movies, television shows, and other media contributing to its widespread recognition in popular culture.

00:00:42.660 While most believe that these extraterrestrial beings are purely speculative, there remains

00:00:49.580 one undeniable fact.

00:00:51.860 Virtually all the testimonies from people who claim to have encountered these creatures

00:00:57.440 have striking similarities.

00:01:00.040 What are these creatures called?

00:01:02.340 The Graves.

00:01:07.800 All right, here we are.

00:01:09.920 this is episode seven now, talking a little alien, UFO, extraterrestrial. You're kind of

00:01:18.540 going to lead the way on this one, Jeremiah. You've done some study on this.

00:01:22.100 Yeah, cueing the X-Files theme. Yeah, it's very interesting. This would be one example of just

00:01:30.240 the normalization of something that used to be considered the fringe. Just 20 to 30 years ago,

00:01:36.780 It seemed to be that the conversation regarding UFOs, alien calendars were referred to nerds in their basements and maybe fans of the X-Files.

00:01:47.980 It was very much considered fringe.

00:01:51.920 There's many reasons for that, including a lot of governmental operations to try and gaslight people who believe authentically in UFOs and to make them seem like crazy people.

00:02:02.880 There is actually governmental psyops that had to do with that.

00:02:06.220 But I want to talk about really the normalization, like how did it become normalized?

00:02:10.840 Anybody who's watching this has probably seen people like Tucker Carlson or even Donald Trump spoke about it.

00:02:18.400 And you've seen it regularly on the news about these disclosures.

00:02:22.580 And sometimes, many times, especially since we have a Democratic administration, anybody in the conservative field tends to blow it off.

00:02:29.080 Like, oh, they're just trying to do a distraction.

00:02:31.960 But the reality is that this has been something that every administration, even people like Ronald Reagan have dealt to deal with, whether it's Republican or Democrat, going back, spanning back multiple different administrations.

00:02:46.300 But really, in modern times, the way that it's gotten normalized was by way of a band, a very popular band, some of you may have heard of, called Blink-182, the guitarist Tom DeLonge.

00:03:00.820 He got very involved. He showed up on the Joe Rogan experience probably around 2015, 2016, and I remember when he went on there and he was claiming that he was in contact with government officials and that he was working along with them to help disclose to the public because the government has not always had the greatest reputation of transparency in regards to not just the UFO conversation,

00:03:29.640 but just really a broad variety.

00:03:31.960 Transparency hasn't been their strong suit.

00:03:34.740 Just look at the current White House press secretary,

00:03:37.880 and you'll get an idea of how someone asks a basic question, 0.89

00:03:40.820 the answer is how much could a woodchuck chuck,

00:03:42.660 if a woodchuck could chuck wood.

00:03:44.260 That's a typical political answer.

00:03:46.820 So he was saying that he was wanting to try and really help

00:03:49.820 disclose a lot of information regarding the true reality of UFOs,

00:03:54.580 of alien contact, through the realm of different films

00:03:58.320 and other media other mediums um like pun intended like literally literally and also uh in other ways

00:04:04.440 like movies film uh documentaries uh things of that nature and there are many people who are

00:04:09.940 looking at that interview when tom de long went on joe rogan and everyone thought that he was crazy

00:04:16.300 that he had completely lost his marbles myself included what turns out is when the lick the

00:04:21.900 WikiLeaks stump came out from Julian Assange during the 2016 election when it was Hillary

00:04:27.900 versus Trump, there are classified documents that were released that actually did confirm

00:04:33.680 that Tom DeLonge actually was speaking with government officials.

00:04:38.460 And so what they've been trying to do is to really normalize and let people know, hey,

00:04:44.420 there are these elements.

00:04:46.000 We've had multiple people, including military officials, pilots, who've had encounters with some sort of, they used to be called UFOs, they've now changed it to something known as UAPs, which is Unidentified Aerial Phenomena.

00:05:04.160 And what you'll see is many a times different shapes in the sky that are seen to be notably physical that are showing up on usually cameras that are made for heat sensors.

00:05:19.560 So there was an encounter.

00:05:20.960 It's infamous.

00:05:22.240 You can look this up.

00:05:23.400 It's known as the Tic Tac encounter.

00:05:26.360 It was in the early 2000s.

00:05:28.160 It was an F-16 pilot.

00:05:31.600 I can't remember the exact plane that he was flying.

00:05:33.820 It was a military plane, and his name was Commander David Frazier, and he had this Tic-Tac encounter, and it was operating in a body of water.

00:05:45.660 It was right around the San Diego area.

00:05:47.820 That's a military—have you ever been to San Diego on Coronado Island?

00:05:50.320 You always see jets flying back and forth.

00:05:53.780 And this encounter, they encountered something that was moving at very high rates of speed, and it was awesome,

00:06:00.980 but it was making changes in such a way that you could even argue say it was to find the laws of

00:06:07.460 physics, but it was something that was tangibly physical. And what is very interesting is that

00:06:13.460 there is not just this physical component of what people are seeing when it comes to these

00:06:18.940 objects in the sky that is now being regularly verified. There's even people like Senator Marco

00:06:25.200 Rubio, who has really pushed a lot of legislation about UFO transparency. So people who are

00:06:32.380 military officials, who are pilots, where they can now give a testimony without really being

00:06:40.220 demonized or being gaslit to say, oh, that's just some sort of self-psychosis. You can't really

00:06:45.560 come forward with that. It's going to make us look bad just because they want to bring out to

00:06:50.300 the public and try and have more transparency regarding that. But when it comes to these

00:06:54.800 encounters, and this is actually depicted in one of the documentaries on the History Channel that

00:06:59.440 Tom DeLonge helped produce as part of this UFO disclosure, is that I believe the series is called

00:07:05.520 Unidentified. And they're interviewing different people. And a lot of times, I think there was

00:07:10.520 someone in Operation Desert Storm and somebody, I believe, it didn't reference the war, I believe

00:07:15.680 it would have been the Iraq war, the war on terror, where somebody was out in the desert

00:07:21.260 and they saw this unidentified aerial phenomena in the sky. Normally what happens, the fruit of

00:07:28.140 this is why this conversation is important, is that when it comes to UFO disclosures and the

00:07:35.120 interest in unidentified aerial phenomena, the interest that comes as a byproduct of that is not

00:07:42.880 how can we get this evolved technology? How can we make, how can we take whatever the materials

00:07:48.160 and the elements are from these crafts to help improve our lives? The question always inherently

00:07:53.160 goes to spirit, being spiritual. The one thing that I remember in seeing this interview, this

00:08:00.460 military person, and I think it was a military police where you saw this unidentified aerial

00:08:06.300 phenomenon. This person grew up as a, as an evangelical Christian. And this experience of

00:08:11.320 seeing this object in the sky, it completely shattered and deconstructed. He just almost

00:08:18.040 pretty much, he said, lost his faith because he did not know what to do with this object in the

00:08:24.420 sky and how to give an accounting for it. And I think as Christians, though, we have to,

00:08:30.640 we're embracing, we don't believe, we don't look at the world with neutrality. We believe that all

00:08:37.080 things are created by Christ and for Christ. So, whatever this unidentified aerial phenomena in

00:08:42.280 the sky is, we have to say, okay, this falls under the sphere of the authority of Jesus Christ

00:08:50.060 as he upholds the universe by the word of his power. So, as Christians, we have to look through

00:08:55.240 that lens and give an accounting, and we have to, we can't, this is something we shouldn't shy away

00:09:00.300 from, we should embrace this and ask the difficult questions. Because where the UFO conversation

00:09:07.400 always go to, it goes to initially the interest in the unidentified feral phenomena. It always

00:09:15.060 becomes a catalyst to get in contact with the people behind the craft, which is aliens,

00:09:22.620 which is alien contact. But what you end up seeing is that where it always goes to is trying

00:09:30.040 to contact another dimension, trying to contact the other side, the means in how you communicate

00:09:37.320 with these aliens is through occultic practices.

00:09:40.720 It always ends up going there.

00:09:43.280 And the answers that these aliens always give, which is uncanny, is you should care more

00:09:51.300 about the environment.

00:09:53.340 You know, you should get rid of sovereign nations and have one global order. 1.00

00:10:00.040 uh be gay you know it's it's just funny that you know okay so you were abducted 0.99

00:10:07.800 and but your interest wasn't like you know you're in a flying tic-tac that's defying the laws of 0.94

00:10:15.260 physics right from another world light years away right and you're you're in the the spacecraft

00:10:23.220 and that's not the zero intrigue you're telling me zero like like zero intrigue in the technology

00:10:31.760 the scientific approach and this is from scientists a lot of times like you know it's

00:10:36.140 these are scientific people that have this experience and and uh and and the big takeaway

00:10:42.360 the conclusion is not and i you know had this discovery for you know uh further scientific

00:10:48.780 exploration and discovery and blah, blah, blah. It's always, um, I've been a scientist my entire

00:10:54.620 life and care about technology. And here I am standing in front of the next technological

00:10:58.920 development that would take us to a whole nother level. And, and, uh, but I asked about what the

00:11:06.100 meaning of life is and how to, uh, contact higher spiritual powers. And it turns out, um, it's, uh,

00:11:14.860 The meaning of life is pretty much synonymous with the Democrat political platform.

00:11:20.280 Right.

00:11:21.040 And how to contact higher powers to become more actualized

00:11:25.400 is pretty much what people believed for thousands of years with the occult.

00:11:30.360 Yeah, yeah.

00:11:31.180 You know what I mean?

00:11:31.720 That's where I'm just like, and real quick, just full disclaimer.

00:11:36.180 I'm not saying, and therefore, your experience is not valid and you didn't see anything.

00:11:41.540 I'm not saying that.

00:11:43.160 I think you saw something.

00:11:44.860 I think you saw something.

00:11:45.620 Yeah, I find that probably the most interesting thought within this whole UAP discussion or the Greys is that typically it's the atheistic materialist who, if they have a vision, right, they see something that they would assume is from another planet, somewhere else in the universe that's more advanced than them, right?

00:12:06.360 So if we're thinking in terms of Charles Darwin, well, who's going to know more about the spiritual?

00:12:11.560 Humanity or something that's way more advanced than humanity?

00:12:13.760 Well, obviously, if they're way more advanced than humanity, they can travel thousands of light years way faster than we can.

00:12:18.880 We automatically should adopt whatever spirituality that they hold.

00:12:22.300 So to them, it just supersedes. 1.00

00:12:24.520 And I think that the grays play on that, right? 1.00

00:12:27.220 Because if it is atheistic materialism, if it is evolution in the sense that there's other life forms that have developed through billions of years throughout the galaxy, then essentially what we believe about God and creation is wrong, right? 0.96

00:12:40.680 So me, I'm a biblical creationist.

00:12:42.820 I believe that God created the world in six literal days and on the seventh day that he rested.

00:12:47.000 And in the biblical creation account, it states that the earth is actually created before the stars.

00:12:51.300 Got to deal with that.

00:12:52.360 Right.

00:12:52.620 But the point being in this revelation.

00:12:55.340 Not long before.

00:12:56.280 Not long before.

00:12:57.060 Two hours before.

00:12:57.900 But still.

00:12:58.220 But still before.

00:12:59.060 Before.

00:12:59.720 Yep.

00:13:00.160 And the point being, and then with God creating man is the pinnacle of his creation.

00:13:06.360 I find that according to the creation account,

00:13:08.860 I don't think that there would be sovereign,

00:13:11.480 intelligent life made in the image of God

00:13:13.360 other than where we are now.

00:13:14.700 I don't find that possibility in scripture.

00:13:17.540 I think that humanity is the pinnacle of God's creation.

00:13:19.920 You're speaking of a sentient, humanoid type of life.

00:13:23.720 Made in the image of God.

00:13:25.680 Real quick, can I go ahead and finish your thought?

00:13:28.440 But I've got one thought on that that I would,

00:13:31.100 I think it's interesting

00:13:32.260 and I want to throw it out and see what you guys think.

00:13:34.460 Go ahead.

00:13:34.680 Yeah, yeah. This is me personally, right? I think that again, all creation groans. I think sin has

00:13:39.560 affected not just the earth, but the cosmos. And this is because of the human condition, right?

00:13:44.280 So I think that humans are the pinnacle of God's creation within the creation order. But assuming

00:13:50.080 that these beings are extraterrestrial, meaning that they come from other planets, thousands of

00:13:56.180 light years away would in my school of thought, render the creation account meaningless. So I

00:14:03.500 think that's the challenge for a lot of people who are like myself, biblical creationists saying,

00:14:07.840 well, what if they are actually other life forms? But you mentioned a few things,

00:14:12.500 defying the laws of physics, right? Well, if they are other life forms, how are they doing that?

00:14:19.120 Like it seems impossible for any physical form inside one of these quote unquote crafts to

00:14:24.880 actually be able to withstand these types of movements that they're making unless they have

00:14:30.040 some type of highly advanced technology that we're just not humanly capable of. But again,

00:14:37.260 that's human science fiction thinking into something we have no idea about, right? That's

00:14:42.580 our own personal thoughts. Right. So some of my thoughts on the whole idea of, you know, humanoid,

00:14:47.920 sentient, intelligent life on other planets. Like we all believe in extraterrestrials and,

00:14:54.720 a, you know, in a, in a manner of speaking in the sense of, you know, angels and, you

00:14:59.580 know, and so like that there are, uh, there are sentient, uh, intelligent beings, created,

00:15:05.660 created beings, creatures, uh, besides just those here on earth, you know, but there's

00:15:10.600 a difference in thinking, you know, uh, no on a, you know, not heavenly creatures, but

00:15:14.920 on another planet in this, you know, in this, uh, you know, cosmos in, in the, um, the

00:15:21.740 galaxy or the universe. In regards to that question, my thought is this, if there is human

00:15:28.220 like life that's sentient and of a high intelligence, similar to man, maybe a little

00:15:36.720 bit less developed than us, or maybe a little bit more developed than us. My thought is that

00:15:42.880 if there is that, when some of the C.S. Lewis gets into some of these concepts with the space

00:15:47.480 trilogy, you know, but my thought is here would be some of my questions theologically. One would

00:15:53.800 be, are they fallen? So, so mankind, you know, quickly fell. And I, you know, I would be of the

00:16:01.800 persuasion that, you know, that Adam fell on the eighth day, that they walked with God in the cool

00:16:06.720 of the day on the seventh, on the Sabbath, and, and then fell on the eighth. And that's part of

00:16:11.920 the reason why circumcision happens on the eighth day, 0.69

00:16:15.800 this cutting away, that was when man fell. 0.83

00:16:18.460 So my point is, I don't think that Adam and Eve lasted very long.

00:16:22.780 I don't think it was years and years that they were in the garden with God

00:16:25.500 before sin entered.

00:16:26.380 I think sin entered the picture very quickly.

00:16:28.780 Obviously, before they had children, they fell.

00:16:30.900 Exactly.

00:16:32.040 And I don't think that they were using birth control.

00:16:37.580 And I think that before sin, there was no sickness or disease or infertility.

00:16:41.920 So, yeah, so that's a great argument right there.

00:16:44.720 So nine months tops, you know?

00:16:46.740 Yeah.

00:16:47.240 So anyways, we know that man fell and man fell quickly.

00:16:52.620 If there was another man, you know, this alien, you know, sentient life form on another planet

00:16:59.580 somewhere else, but within the created order, within the universe, the physical cosmos somewhere,

00:17:05.040 are they fallen?

00:17:06.820 If they're not, all right, so with that question, yes or no.

00:17:09.940 if they're not fallen, meaning they never sent against God, they didn't have a fall. If they're

00:17:15.740 not fallen, then this isn't the strongest argument, and I'm willing to admit that, but

00:17:20.800 at some level, it seems a bit redundant. If they're not fallen, then what purpose do they

00:17:28.340 serve? Because they don't exist, therefore, if they're not fallen, as an opportunity to magnify

00:17:34.080 the grace and mercy of God and the gospel of Jesus Christ. Now, that said, that doesn't mean

00:17:38.900 that there's no purpose for a being, an unfallen being, because we have a Christian category for

00:17:43.760 that. They're called angels, you know, the two thirds of the angels that never fell. But if we

00:17:48.980 already have the two thirds of the angels that never fell, and I would argue biblically even

00:17:52.420 different classifications among angelic beings of like cherubim and seraphim and the four living

00:17:57.620 creatures covered in eyes, you know, and then 24 elders on 24 thrones and, you know, and all that.

00:18:04.120 And then in addition to like Gabriel and Michael and certain messenger angels, if we already have all that and then archangels, we already have multiple species, if we could call it that, or at least subspecies of unfallen, sentient, high intelligence beings that exist for the purpose of serving God, glorifying God, worshiping God.

00:18:29.000 And some, I don't think all, but some angels, like Gabriel, messenger angels, they also exist for the purpose of serving those who are to inherit salvation as ministry and spirits.

00:18:41.720 Hebrews 1.

00:18:42.400 Exactly.

00:18:43.320 So we have that category.

00:18:45.180 So to say like, okay, we already have all these angels, as many as God determined, as many as he wanted, to worship him as unfallen beings, to worship him and to serve him.

00:18:54.000 but then also we we need uh planets xrp uh four 47 dash uh five over here in this galaxy to have

00:19:05.680 the same thing to have an unfallen high so you see my point so then the other option is okay so

00:19:12.460 if there is aliens high intelligence sentient beings i'm not talking about single-celled

00:19:17.820 organisms or even beast or animals. I'm open to that. But humanoids, if there are humanoids in

00:19:24.960 the cosmos, the universe, somewhere else, if they're not fallen, I just, we've already got

00:19:31.740 angels. It just doesn't make a ton of sense. If they are fallen, so then that's the only other

00:19:35.960 option. This is where I'll land the plane. If they are fallen, then that would be theologically

00:19:41.360 a category that is unique in the sense that if they are fallen, they are fallen and God

00:19:49.940 has sovereignly determined that they would never be redeemed.

00:19:53.960 And this is why, because of the hypostatic union, when you think of Christ, so you have

00:20:00.820 one God, one essence being, three persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

00:20:06.600 but then within the second person of the Trinity, Christ, we have two natures. Now the divine can

00:20:14.200 take upon itself another nature, namely the human nature. And that's not a kenosis theology where

00:20:21.080 the divine is emptied. Philippians talks about he emptied himself. Well, the wording there,

00:20:26.880 what that means is it's subtraction by addition. It's not a true emptying. It's not as though

00:20:33.620 Jesus in his earthly ministry and in the incarnation put his divinity on pause, that he

00:20:40.540 was no longer divine, that it all was taken out of him and he was just man for a while. No, no,

00:20:48.240 he's still fully divine. This idea of him emptying, that word emptying, is that it's divinity.

00:20:55.740 Augustine talks about this in Augustine, that it's divinity wrapped, cloaked in humanity. And

00:21:01.080 that's what we see at the transfiguration. It's not that the divine all of a sudden comes rushing

00:21:04.540 back. No, the divine that never left, it never emptied in the technical sense. It is a proper

00:21:09.720 word. The scripture uses it, but it's not meaning in the literal sense. So the divine that was never

00:21:14.360 in the literal sense emptied, it was always there. It doesn't suddenly come rushing back

00:21:19.220 on the Mount of Transfiguration. It's not that the divine comes back. It's that the human nature

00:21:26.280 rather, is like a veil is pulled back just a little bit to where the divine can be seen,

00:21:32.340 to where the divine is revealed and manifest. So all that being said, Jesus was eternally God.

00:21:41.140 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. And then in real

00:21:45.460 human history, at a certain point, took on flesh. And the flesh can be added, the flesh nature,

00:21:52.200 human nature can be added to the divine nature in such a way that the two are not divorced or

00:21:57.540 severed, but also not mixed, right? This is our doctrine, theology proper, and particularly

00:22:02.980 doctrine of the hypostatic union. Council of Chalcedon. Yes, not mixed. But in order for

00:22:09.260 Christ to redeem us, and we know that from scripture, that he has chosen to do that and

00:22:14.820 take on a human nature. And here's the thing, he doesn't take it on for 33 years and then take it

00:22:19.440 off. From that point on, he is forever the God-man. So in order for God to save us in Christ,

00:22:26.460 by Christ, the second member of the Trinity, taking on a second nature, the human nature, 0.67

00:22:30.640 if there was another humanoid species and they were fallen and God wanted to save them,

00:22:38.400 it would have to be through substitutionary atonement. The gospel is the power of God

00:22:44.640 for salvation and not just on one plane, not just in one world. It would be the way that God would

00:22:50.760 save anyone, anywhere, and by substitutionary atonement. It would be Jesus appearing and

00:22:56.840 saying, I am the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world, and I'm going to do so

00:23:00.240 by dying in your place. But in order to die in place of a people as a substitute in an efficacious

00:23:09.260 way to take their sins. He has to be divine so that he can represent all of us in one person,

00:23:16.520 but he also has to be man so that he can represent man. So in part of taking on the second nature,

00:23:24.840 the human nature was so that he could represent humans. So in order to save another species in

00:23:30.200 some alien planet, he would have to become, but he can't stop being the God man. He's forever the

00:23:35.980 god so he'd have to be the god man alien yeah three natures is my point um and although the

00:23:42.720 divine can take another nature the divine nature can take on a second nature without being severed

00:23:47.860 divorced or mixed the human nature and the alien nature there would be no physical way for them not

00:23:56.100 to mix right like what would he look like because they're physical they're they're they're physical

00:24:01.300 natures um so he would appear on this planet born of a virgin an alien version virgin on planet

00:24:09.760 you know whatever and and he would either come out as an alien or a man or a mix no longer fully man

00:24:17.640 yeah well he would no longer be fully man he couldn't be you you can have fully god and fully

00:24:22.640 one um creaturely nature fully divine and one creature you can't have fully god fully man

00:24:29.680 fully alien. So all that being said, the final point is if there was another humanoid being

00:24:36.040 in the created universe, they would either be, that's sentient and human-like and intelligent,

00:24:42.980 they would either have to be unfallen, that is theologically possible, although it seems

00:24:47.140 redundant to the angels, but it is possible, or they would be fallen, if not unfallen,

00:24:52.680 the only other option is fallen. And if they're fallen, it would have to be fallen with the

00:24:57.900 purpose from the very beginning in the sovereignty of God, the mind of God, that they would be

00:25:01.940 fallen and eternally damned.

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00:26:15.600 It sounds like you're just describing angels in general

00:26:17.900 because we have demonic fallen.

00:26:20.100 Angels and fallen.

00:26:21.080 Those two categories are already there.

00:26:23.400 They all, yeah, they long to look into salvation, right?

00:26:26.320 The fallen angels have no redemption.

00:26:28.300 Right.

00:26:28.780 And the angels that serve us, our ministering spirits sent to serve for the sake of those

00:26:33.080 who inherit salvation.

00:26:34.360 So in terms, again, of being humans, we're the pinnacle of God's creation, right?

00:26:39.300 In terms that we get the gospel, we get the grace, and that one day we will judge the

00:26:43.580 angels, right?

00:26:44.640 So we still stand in humanity, humbly when I say this, as the pinnacle of God's creation

00:26:49.660 in all of the cosmos.

00:26:50.980 Regardless, I love what you're saying.

00:26:52.480 I've never really thought about

00:26:53.240 the theological implications

00:26:54.520 of the substitutionary atonement,

00:26:56.340 but it says-

00:26:56.620 Wait, so am I in left field?

00:26:58.060 No, no, no, you're good.

00:26:59.560 Does it make sense?

00:27:00.280 I think one thing is true

00:27:02.520 is that a lot of UFO cults

00:27:05.120 will actually take what you mentioned

00:27:07.160 at the very end

00:27:08.140 and they will try and redefine Jesus

00:27:10.040 into their own image

00:27:10.920 and refer to him

00:27:12.440 as some sort of alien-like creature.

00:27:15.340 In fact, I remember in this is-

00:27:17.780 But if he is in the image of the aliens, an alien-like creature,

00:27:21.780 then he may be able to come as a teacher, as a rabbi, as a miracle worker, 0.86

00:27:26.660 but he can't come as a savior because he can't represent us

00:27:30.080 and therefore be our substitute.

00:27:31.320 And to be saved, we need, the wages of sin is death.

00:27:35.160 We need someone to die for us,

00:27:36.860 and they must be able to represent us as our substitute. 0.91

00:27:41.600 Likewise. 0.99

00:27:42.300 If they're alien, they can't. 1.00

00:27:43.120 He had to be made likewise like his brothers in every respect 0.99

00:27:46.040 so he could be a merciful and great high priest.

00:27:47.780 So it's the mid-90s, and I'm in high school.

00:27:52.300 I believe I'm in 10th grade, and I'm at my computer class,

00:27:56.320 and I'm doing homework.

00:27:57.640 I'm doing extracurricular credit,

00:27:59.240 and the Internet is a brand-new thing, at least for me.

00:28:05.300 I'm not sure.

00:28:06.560 Al Gore had recently invented it, of course.

00:28:09.460 So shout out to Mr. Gore.

00:28:12.020 That's cool.

00:28:12.660 Yeah, he may have done it.

00:28:13.600 Yeah. So I was there and I, it just so happens there was a group called Heaven's Gate that had

00:28:20.620 just all killed themselves. Some of you may have heard about that. And I was curious. And so when

00:28:25.160 that happened back in the late nineties, all these millennial cults kind of leading up to the year

00:28:30.220 2000 is that it was very intriguing is, is the, the biggest known cult mass suicide since

00:28:37.900 Jonestown. It had a lot of attention. And I remember I, I went to the website, like that

00:28:42.840 website got a lot of hits. Some of you may have like visually know that website, Heaven's Gate

00:28:47.280 is just was one of those cultural phenomena. So I went and checked it out. And I remember

00:28:52.140 looking at some of their, you know, their statement of faith and some of their beliefs.

00:28:56.720 And one of them was that they looked at the story of Jesus's baptism, where the light comes shining

00:29:03.560 down from heaven and says, this is my son, whom I am well pleased. They went and interpreted that,

00:29:08.940 that that was one of the first noted alien encounters.

00:29:13.620 They tried to utilize that to say that Jesus

00:29:15.640 was just an exalted extraterrestrial being.

00:29:19.140 Now, we can all laugh at that and make fun of that,

00:29:22.120 but the reality is that you had people in the early 90s

00:29:25.260 from many people who are very well-off,

00:29:28.380 who are, I mean, cults also,

00:29:29.740 they tend to recruit people that are intelligent,

00:29:33.400 who are well successful in life

00:29:35.360 because they tend to have a lot more money

00:29:37.800 you can extrapolate.

00:29:38.940 versus somebody who's just, you know, a wealthier recipient.

00:29:42.900 So they do, so usually when you look at people who are cult members,

00:29:46.400 who get sucked into a cult, they tend to be very wealthy and intelligent people.

00:29:50.580 And when you actually look at the Rolodex of people who were in Heaven's Gate,

00:29:55.100 who did believe that upon putting a certain amount of change in your pocket,

00:29:59.600 you know, putting on a certain amount of clothing with particular colors,

00:30:03.180 and also if we're all going to take this particular poison at this time and be laid out,

00:30:08.160 we are going to ascend into, what was it, Haley's?

00:30:12.360 Hale-Bopp Comet.

00:30:13.160 Hale-Bopp Comet.

00:30:14.800 So this eisegesis, you know, looking about bad theology hurts people,

00:30:19.620 this convinced 20-plus people who were very intelligent from different backgrounds

00:30:24.080 to all kill themselves.

00:30:25.500 And they came to the other side facing a very different situation 0.80

00:30:30.440 than the bag of goods that was sold to them.

00:30:33.040 So this is why it's important to really embrace what you're talking about

00:30:37.340 through, you know, understanding the lens of the incarnation, because I was actually going to argue,

00:30:41.580 and I'm glad you brought that up, is because many will take the UFO conversation and they will deal

00:30:49.080 with it through two different lenses. You have those who kind of will hold to atheistic naturalistic

00:30:53.940 materialism. There's someone named Louis Elizondo. If you're at all familiar with the UFO conversation,

00:30:58.440 you'll recognize his name. He's one of the most outspoken officials. He no longer represents the

00:31:03.600 US government, but he's someone who's a naturalistic materialist. So the only real risk that he sees

00:31:09.740 in regards to the unidentified arrow phenomena, it's a national security issue. Because I mentioned

00:31:16.060 that F-16 Tic Tac encounter, if that had been like a Russian pilot or it was a Chinese air

00:31:24.360 fighter, the airspace that they were in, it would have been considered an act of war.

00:31:28.020 the reason why there's been no war

00:31:31.060 because we don't, no one really knows

00:31:32.940 what that was, but they're viewing it

00:31:34.940 strictly through the lens of

00:31:36.720 naturalistic materialism

00:31:38.320 however, then you have people on the exact opposite

00:31:41.020 side who will just say

00:31:42.820 UFOs are demons, UFOs are demons

00:31:45.160 but if you just adhere

00:31:47.020 to that, well there's a huge amount

00:31:49.040 of material

00:31:50.440 like a material aspect that you cannot

00:31:53.140 ignore, well what do you do with

00:31:54.960 the physical elements, like how are they, if it's just

00:31:57.260 demons, how are they showing up on heat sensors and these other, you know, flight navigation tools?

00:32:03.400 Like, how does that work? And I think what you end up seeing, as we mentioned in our previous

00:32:08.380 episode on the occult, is the reference to elemental spirits. And while fallen angels,

00:32:13.780 they cannot create, however, they can manipulate. You see that specifically, as I mentioned also,

00:32:20.820 in one of our previous discussions, when it came to the encounter that Moses had before Pharaoh,

00:32:26.260 Aaron showed the power of God through throwing down its staff that turned into a snake.

00:32:30.600 Pharaoh's sorcerers, his practitioners of dark arts, they emulated that.

00:32:35.840 So in the same way, I believe that there are ways in which, in the same way in which the incarnation came, the word became flesh and dwelt among us.

00:32:45.940 I believe that there are elemental spirits, there are fallen entities, and they do have on some level a power to create, be a counterfeit incarnation, a counterfeit blending of the material and immaterial.

00:32:59.400 And that's because that's where you see it show, an encounter will show up in a notably physical occupational space, but where it ends up going is inherently spiritual.

00:33:10.680 And that's where I think you can give a real accounting for some of these UFO encounters.

00:33:14.880 Let me just give a couple examples that are notable. So many of you will, many sometimes who are objecting, who are crossing around, who are skeptical because they view it strictly through the lens of U.S. politics, U.S. policies.

00:33:28.260 So many times when we talk about a hearing on UFO disclosures because right now we're dealing with the Biden administration, many in the conservative space will kind of laugh it off and ignore it.

00:33:37.760 Oh, this is just a distraction from what's going on at the border.

00:33:40.780 This is just a distraction from inflation, what have you, whatever the current thing is.

00:33:45.600 Now, while that may be a little bit true, there is something that's truly tangible that goes back, again, through multiple administrations.

00:33:52.200 But if you disconnect yourself from U.S. public policy, the whole relation of United States government with UFOs, there's a completely different incident that was very infamous that took place in Brazil in the 1990s.

00:34:06.240 It was a place in Virginia, Brazil.

00:34:09.360 I was looking it up to make sure it was accurate.

00:34:11.180 There's a documentary that came out about it called Moment of Contact.

00:34:15.260 And what it was is that there was a notable area, there was a spacecraft that multiple independent lines of testimony and witness of people in this area in Virginia, Brazil, saw and witnessed a spacecraft crash into this area right outside of town.

00:34:34.300 And then there's a private school, a private girls' school that you have now.

00:34:40.440 This is 30 years in the documentary.

00:34:42.020 They interview three women who 30 years later, they all swear and attest by, and it completely changed all their presuppositions about the world and how to make sense of the world.

00:34:53.700 They saw something in their schoolyard.

00:34:57.520 They go back to the location.

00:34:58.740 You know, sometimes you can look at someone and you know that, okay, maybe they're confused about what that actually was, but they unequivocally believe, know what they saw.

00:35:09.500 Like they might be confused, but they're not lying.

00:35:11.800 Right. And, and that's what I saw. And they, what they end up all encountering, they all testify that the multiple people in this town all testified that they got, they had contact physical, physically. There was something that was physically there that looked like a gray.

00:35:30.160 It was shaped in such a way, and this is a small town in Brazil that's completely disconnected from Roswell, from Area 51, any of that.

00:35:41.420 But then again, they are looking at something that is tangibly dark, has the same shape of a gray that we'll talk about.

00:35:49.500 And there's even within the town, there were people who actually put their hands on these creatures and they get the sworn testimony of doctors who said that these people died shortly thereafter.

00:36:04.680 And then you had government officials who came and went to cover this up.

00:36:09.880 And this is the government of Brazil.

00:36:11.280 So what you're really seeing, I think you're going to continue to see, are multiple different areas all over the world where encounters like these have happened.

00:36:21.500 They're inherently spiritual.

00:36:23.540 That's where it goes to.

00:36:24.980 But there's a physical element you can't ignore.

00:36:27.860 But it always goes down to who are we ontologically as beings?

00:36:33.620 How do we transcend?

00:36:34.960 How do we look to beyond? 0.98

00:36:36.540 And just jumping back to one other example, and then we're jumping to the grays and what they actually are. 0.97

00:36:41.680 The fact that it does lead to a cultic spirit contact, that's where the UFO conversation goes. 0.75

00:36:47.960 One of the most notable people who has really pushed that is Dr. Stephen Greer.

00:36:53.760 He's shown up. He's been on the Sean Ryan show. He has his other documentaries.

00:36:57.840 But he really advocates for CE5 disclosures, close encounters of the fifth kind,

00:37:03.320 where you cross over and you can surpass the government and their cover-ups

00:37:09.060 because his argument is that the government does not want you

00:37:14.080 to truly understand your true self and this true secret hidden knowledge.

00:37:18.360 So let's transcend, let's surpass the minimum of the U.S. government,

00:37:22.080 let's do a CE5 disclosure.

00:37:24.300 So when you watch some of the documentaries that Dr. Stephen Greer has done,

00:37:27.860 what you end up seeing, the first part of it will be intrigue

00:37:30.740 and we'll talk about things that are tangibly true regarding the government not being not transparent in any way, shape, or form regarding the UFO conversation

00:37:40.820 and gaslighting those who have had UFO encounters.

00:37:45.100 But then the second half of it, they're doing seances.

00:37:49.140 It's like a druidism ritual, like out in the desert, and you start seeing objects in the sky.

00:37:55.460 It's something that Tom DeLonge did with him.

00:37:57.180 He talks about when he was going through the process of doing these encounters.

00:38:01.700 It terrified him.

00:38:02.180 Yeah, it terrified him, and he started getting in contact with these entities at 3 o'clock in the morning,

00:38:06.460 which just so happens to be the witching hour.

00:38:09.080 When you look at Demi Lovato, who has been a notable pop star,

00:38:13.880 and her gender confusion, the catalyst for that was her relationship with Dr. Stephen Greer

00:38:22.160 and going out to the desert and that was her initial contact with getting in contact with

00:38:28.040 familiar spirits and you know she's done a lot of things with you know uh uh ghost hunting and

00:38:35.400 and just you can actually parallel all her misconfusion and giving her different pronouns

00:38:41.200 and all that it directly correlates to her trying to contact over to the other side which is again

00:38:46.640 why neo-paganism always leads to an inversal of the created order.

00:38:51.280 So you see that happening.

00:38:53.420 But yeah, so there's a history that goes back to it.

00:38:55.720 It leads to the occult. 0.65

00:38:57.080 It leads to the contact with these greys. 1.00

00:38:59.720 And these aren't creatures that are showing you how to do advanced technology. 1.00

00:39:04.340 They're about, hey, let's question whether or not Jesus was really the son of God.

00:39:09.260 Let me tell you about the secret esoteric hidden—

00:39:11.700 You've been abducted by aliens.

00:39:12.540 Yes.

00:39:12.860 And the conversation that's happening is not wormholes and how to achieve, you know, light speed.

00:39:19.640 It's the conversation that transpires is, let me tell you why Jesus is not the Son of God.

00:39:26.180 Right. And so what it really boils down to is that you see a lot of you in the Greys, even before these encounters happened, it just so happens one of the most notable occultists of the last 100 years is Aleister Crowley.

00:39:37.320 And Andrew, talk just a little bit about what he discovered, the relationship between Aleister Crowley and the Greys.

00:39:42.000 So let me just say, we have a 10-part series, which is a historical analysis over a millennia of aliens. It's called Alien Revelations. It's done by Colin Samuil. You can go to thecultishow.com or our podcast, and you should check those out. It's an amazing historical analysis that goes over even abduction from a thousand years ago, where these forms weren't just taking the forms of grays, but actually in the forms of fairies, right?

00:40:06.960 abducting people. There's abduction accounts of fairies. There's accounts of people seeing

00:40:12.520 flying ships in the sky, like literal flying ships with sails, like how these beings would

00:40:17.520 appear to people in such a ways that they can actually fool them the most throughout time.

00:40:22.860 So there's a historical analysis that we have, even going back to a quote-unquote Christian

00:40:28.080 magician in the Queen's court called John Dee, who is doing occult rituals, contacting these

00:40:33.240 otherworldly interdimensional beings from other planets that were giving him uh information that

00:40:38.700 we're hearing about which is a one world government yada yada to even emmanuel swedenborg who contacted

00:40:44.860 these types of entities through occultic practices uh the greys essentially that gave him the same

00:40:50.940 type of information a one world order uh different government forms of government even celestial

00:40:56.320 marriage, quote unquote, really interesting. But thinking about Alistair Crowley here,

00:41:04.820 he was someone who also practiced occult rituals. There's something called theurgy

00:41:09.660 that Alistair Crowley practiced. And we talked about the hermeticism. Coming from hermeticism

00:41:15.640 is the doctrine for them, of course, of theurgy. So Alistair Crowley practiced these things.

00:41:22.040 and he actually summoned an entity that he called lam it's l-a-m it's what you would think when you

00:41:27.940 think of a gray it's like this little short man that's like about this tall with a inverted

00:41:32.520 triangle head with his almond shaped eyes you can google it he drew it uh you can go see it on the

00:41:38.560 internet anyways in stephen greer's documentary close encounters of the fifth kind they're in

00:41:42.720 the middle of doing a transcendental meditation in order to make these orbs appear in the sky

00:41:46.540 and they they take photos right they're always trying to capture these things and in one of the

00:41:51.300 photos right in between two individuals, it looks just like lamb from Aleister Crowley. Like it's

00:41:57.820 almost identical. Of course, it has that, uh, translucent looking nature to it, but it's the

00:42:03.720 same size, same image. And of course, what does Dr. Stephen Greer believe? He believes that we

00:42:08.660 need to make a whole one new world type of order that the government is fighting against and that

00:42:13.360 the gospel is given essentially through a higher revelation of who you are. And through close

00:42:17.740 encounters of the fifth kind, you can truly love your neighbor and create a one world

00:42:21.140 existence and sharing and loving all things like that's literally what he teaches in that

00:42:25.820 documentary i remember watching that it was me you and was past did pastor jeff watch it with us or

00:42:30.020 was it just me and you i think it was us i think it was us yeah i know he's seen that i know he's

00:42:34.320 seen he's very pastor jeff is very familiar with dr yeah i do highly recommend guys to get our 10

00:42:40.300 episodes on the historical origins at least of alien revelations it's it's uh done really well

00:42:48.180 It's well-documented, well-researched, and it'll give you a different perspective, right? 1.00

00:42:53.460 Like they're grays now to us because that's what seems so enthralling, right, to our materialistic minds that we're living in. 1.00

00:43:00.760 But they appeared as other things to people in other times, which was enthralling to them, which I find interesting. 1.00

00:43:06.000 What's also what you'll find fascinating, going back to what we quoted earlier, quoting Dr. Gary North, that the rise of occultism always marks the ending of a civilization of a certain period of time.

00:43:19.140 And so you will actually see a lot of even artwork way prior to Roswell and all this stuff in like the medieval times, like during the Dark Ages and even these Renaissance paintings that depict during times where the occult was high on the rise and paganism was just surging of objects in the sky that somewhat even resembled the UFO and calendars that people now modernly have seen and have testimony of.

00:43:45.300 So you'll see a direct, that's one spoiler of direct correlation in the occult.

00:43:49.980 And even one of the fascinating areas when it comes to UFO encounters is also the alien abduction part of it.

00:43:58.380 Those who have had testimony, they believe they've gotten abducted by a ship where they're being experimented and tortured on.

00:44:05.380 It usually, that person being targeted usually doesn't come out of a vacuum or just something arbitrary.

00:44:12.160 It usually comes from somebody who has been toying around with something they should not be messing with, something that is occultic in nature, whether it's a tarot card reading or if it's somebody dealing with a medium, doing palm reading.

00:44:27.300 There's usually some sort of gateway they've done to open up the opportunity for that encounter.

00:44:32.660 So it's not just, hey, this person has some cash.

00:44:36.960 They're like, hey, let's do some kidnapping ransom with the U.S. government.

00:44:40.460 right it's not a typical what used typically like what people are kidnapped for and what you will

00:44:48.820 end up seeing though there's one consistent testimony that's happened amongst alien abductions

00:44:55.160 and when they're being experimented and tortured is that all of a sudden there's this inkling

00:45:00.580 to call out to the name of Jesus of Nazareth and you will see and this is multiple places

00:45:06.760 all throughout the world where this has happened,

00:45:09.580 when the name of Jesus is invoked,

00:45:13.100 the abduction, the encounters, the torture, the experimentation, it stops.

00:45:19.460 There is something to that.

00:45:21.540 And these are people who are not even regenerate

00:45:23.300 because there is something that's just powerful in that name.

00:45:28.460 Like it says in James, the demons, they fear God and they tremble.

00:45:32.860 So all of a sudden when they know that name, they disappear.

00:45:35.900 And so what is important, I think, is that, again, this whole conversation regarding UFOs, it's another area where people will look at these issues separately, the DMT, the astral realm, looking at Burning Man, and now the conversation regarding UFOs and aliens.

00:45:58.660 We're trying to view the things all separate and part, but again, what we're seeing is that these are all micro-elements.

00:46:05.280 They're microcosms of an exchange of worldviews, where the final reality is not a true distinction between creator and creation, two-ism.

00:46:17.960 What you're seeing is that it's a reversal now of an adoption of one-ism, a complete reversal of the created order,

00:46:25.500 where people are accepting that in this, all of these different practices, all the rise of these

00:46:31.300 transformational festivals, all of this is because now as a whole, we are seeing the Western world

00:46:37.440 fully embrace one-ism. All these things are the microcosms of it. And this is why those who are

00:46:44.940 interested in UFOs, I think as Christians, we should not fear this. This shouldn't shake our

00:46:52.340 faith, when I, the more that I studied this subject, it is fascinating, the more it emboldens

00:46:59.500 me because I see the realm, I see the nature of scripture, how scripture describes the dimensions,

00:47:05.600 the material and the immaterial realm. I know that I can give an accounting for what these

00:47:11.580 alien objects are because I view it through the lens of a God who is sovereign, who upholds his

00:47:16.640 creation by the word of his power. And that is someone who's fully God and fully man. And I can

00:47:22.260 view the subject through the lens of the incarnation. I can give full credence to the

00:47:26.700 material part of UFO spaceships or these aerial phenomena and also the material and the immaterial

00:47:34.860 parts of it. I can make sense why they're showing up on physical radar. I can give an accounting

00:47:40.840 for why this tic-tac encounter happened with Commander David Fraser

00:47:47.080 and why these things took place.

00:47:50.200 And I can give an accounting for that.

00:47:52.660 And I can also give an accounting for what happens when someone dabbles in the occult. 0.59

00:47:56.840 The same entity, the same sort of contact with little green men 0.90

00:48:02.160 that comes by way through attempting to contact the greys 1.00

00:48:05.340 is the same realm that God calls off limits

00:48:10.680 that one gets into when they start taking pharmakia,

00:48:14.820 when they start taking the DMT or psilocybin mushrooms.

00:48:19.320 And there's a consistency between those who've had

00:48:21.520 the alien encounters or attempted alien contact

00:48:23.820 that Dr. Stephen Greer is doing

00:48:25.620 and those like Russell Brand and Joe Rogan

00:48:29.660 who talk about their experiences of contact in the other side.

00:48:34.320 you see the same thing. So rather than be shying away from it, oh, this is fringe.

00:48:39.340 I think this is something we need to embrace because this is, again, an opportunity to give

00:48:44.080 people the hope of the gospel. Rather, so it's something we should embrace and take head on

00:48:49.640 rather than shrink and be fearful of it. Real quick, before we continue with the show,

00:48:54.160 I wanted to let you know that this is actually just one episode of a 10-part series that we will

00:49:00.200 be slowly releasing to the public on places like YouTube and your favorite podcast platform

00:49:06.560 over the coming months. However, if you want to get all 10 of these episodes right now,

00:49:13.280 early access and ad free, we are making them available exclusively for our Patreon members

00:49:19.920 over at patreon.com forward slash right response ministries. Here are the titles for just a few

00:49:27.580 of those episodes. We've got transhumanism and artificial intelligence. We also have DMT and the

00:49:35.200 astral realm. We also have neo-paganism. And another of my favorite episodes is an entire

00:49:43.080 episode devoted to the grays. So again, head on over to patreon.com forward slash right response

00:49:51.060 ministries and sign up for our silver tier, which is just $5 a month. And you'll be able to get all

00:49:57.560 10 of these episodes ad free right now and if you join us at the gold tier for just ten dollars a

00:50:04.880 month you'll get early access ad free for the full 10 episodes plus an additional live stream

00:50:11.600 that i and the guys who join me for this series that's jeremiah roberts and andrew suncrant the

00:50:18.240 three of us will be doing live streams where we'll be taking questions from you our gold tier

00:50:24.280 patreon members and providing for you the best answers that we possibly can from the word of

00:50:29.500 god so don't delay go to patreon.com forward slash right response ministries and become a supporter

00:50:36.200 today amen um i i think you know a couple things here towards the end of the episode uh just big

00:50:43.340 picture theology i think one is like well why why so much fascination well andrew was helpful in

00:50:48.000 giving us some of the history and saying uh this has happened before you know but it's it's always

00:50:52.920 fits within the the frame of the culture of that time you know so whether it's you know ships like

00:50:58.340 and and not like spaceships but ships that would sail on the sea with you know like uh you know

00:51:03.560 wooden um boats in the air um in in a particular century in a particular place and you know versus

00:51:10.240 aliens and spaceships today uh so one it's not uh entirely novel but that said i think it's uh it's

00:51:17.720 perfectly fair to concede and say, yeah, but it does seem pretty widespread, like quickly growing

00:51:24.180 this fascination with aliens, with the greys and UFOs and all these kinds of things. So

00:51:30.340 one way to account for that, that I think is helpful, just big picture stuff here is

00:51:35.040 I think it's because the world is desperate to re-enchant itself, that the God of science

00:51:41.820 has proven to be a puny God. You know, you think of like the Hulk, you know,

00:51:46.820 like uh you know with loki puny god you know and uh and so the god of uh science has been um

00:51:54.280 recently you know publicly put to shame um through a little thing called uh dr fauci and covet dr

00:52:01.160 fauci i mean he literally said i am the science i am science incarnate right in the beginning was

00:52:05.980 the word the word was with god well in the beginning was fauci yeah in terms of in terms

00:52:10.360 of this god this lowercase g you know false god the god of science uh fauci would be uh uh and

00:52:16.760 And the science took on flesh and dwelt among us and screwed over an entire planet.

00:52:23.600 You don't need to wear a mask. It's totally fine.

00:52:26.900 So I think, seriously, I think like, so what's the reason?

00:52:29.940 And it's not to say that there was no fascination with extraterrestrial beings before 2020.

00:52:35.220 But my point is, I think there's multiple reasons.

00:52:38.580 But one is a general reason is I think the world is desperate to re-enchant itself.

00:52:43.380 darwinian materialism that the world is just stuff um has uh the verdict has finally come

00:52:51.900 you know the jury's back in and uh turns out it is uh radically dissatisfying the average person

00:52:58.800 is just it's that's not enough it doesn't there's something in their soul that's still longing it's

00:53:03.180 not enough that's not a good enough answer to just say well protons you know and and neurons

00:53:08.620 and this and that and they're like okay like sure like i'm not even discounting that sure the

00:53:14.860 material world is real there is material and certain materials interact with other materials

00:53:21.500 and and produce these results and yeah sure like i'm not an idiot um but is that is that all there

00:53:28.820 is like what what about the soul what about the beyond what about um and the reality is like that

00:53:35.120 the Christian worldview accounts for both. It accounts for stuff, matter, material, and it

00:53:41.320 doesn't say, oh, matter doesn't matter. No, matter matters. God cares about, you know, he loves the

00:53:47.260 world and not just people on the world. Certainly there's a particular love for those created in

00:53:54.820 his image, but he has a love for every sparrow that falls to the ground and the lilies of the

00:54:00.880 field he clothes him he has a love for the world not just as it represents you know the human

00:54:06.000 population as a whole but but the cosmos that he made he said it's good and he loves it so the

00:54:11.780 material does exist but the immaterial the spiritual exists as well and the world i think

00:54:16.000 is desperate to be re-enchanted the last thing i'll say is okay so that explains people in general

00:54:21.380 culture in general why a fascination with um the extraterrestrial and aliens because their

00:54:27.080 science has failed them. And, and materialism, Darwinianism is, did not, like, like a typical

00:54:37.420 politician, it made some lofty promises, but it did not deliver. And so they're, they're desperate

00:54:42.900 to fill in the gaps, you know, with this looking to the spiritual, maybe aliens are the answer,

00:54:49.100 but they're still steeped in Darwinianism, even if they don't realize it, you know, it's like two

00:54:53.320 fish passing each other in the ocean. One says, hey, the water sure is nice today. And the other

00:54:56.960 fish says, what's water? So even when they try to think of the spiritual, they still can't help

00:55:02.300 themselves, but put the spiritual into material framework, you know, AKA. So how do you come up

00:55:08.380 with something supernatural, magical, but still within your Darwinian framework that you can't

00:55:13.720 help but have because you're a 21st century, you know, Western modern? Well, you know, what do you

00:55:18.300 call that? You call it aliens. That's what you call it. So there's that. But why Christian

00:55:22.260 fascination, because it's not just people in general. That's the final thing that I wanted

00:55:26.040 to address. The Christian fascination, I think, with extraterrestrials, I think there's a lot

00:55:31.600 of reasons for it. But one, and this is just one, one reason I think is because of such poor 1.00

00:55:38.320 angel-ology, such poor demon-ology, especially within the Reformed world, but Christians in 0.98

00:55:45.740 general. The Reformed world has failed because they just won't touch it. And then a lot of other 1.00

00:55:51.180 evangelical world, and especially charismatics, they fail because they'll touch it. They'll go

00:55:57.120 there, but they get real wacky. And so they go in some ways too far, or they just go in this area

00:56:03.700 or that area. It's just wacky. And so I don't think there has been a lot of good Christian

00:56:09.060 doctrine and teaching on the angelic and on the demonic. And I mean, in the sense of not just

00:56:15.560 terms of, you know, the rubric of good and evil, moral and immorality. But I mean like getting to

00:56:23.140 ontological questions and like, are angels pure spirit or is there a physical component to angels?

00:56:32.340 And therefore, is there a physical component to fallen angels? We know that angels, they're not

00:56:37.000 infinite. So God, right? John 4, you know, God is spirit and those who worship him must worship

00:56:41.800 in spirit and truth. And the fact that God is spirit and that God does not have a body, now

00:56:47.640 Jesus, second member of the Godhead, he did take on flesh. He has a physical body. But eternally

00:56:52.820 speaking, before the incarnation, even now in regards to the first and third member, the Father

00:56:57.380 and the Spirit, there's no physical body. And part of that speaks to one of the attributes,

00:57:03.520 divine characteristics of God, which is his omnipresence. David says, where can I go from

00:57:08.520 your spirit. If I'm in the depths of Sheol or cast into the sea or wherever I am, you are.

00:57:15.220 You are because you're infinite. God is in hell. That's something that a lot of Christians haven't

00:57:19.760 been taught. What makes hell hell is not that it's a complete absence of God. It's not that

00:57:24.600 God is absent, but that God is present. However, he is present particularly in the attributes of

00:57:32.740 his justice and wrath towards sin. Hell is not hell because God's not there. Hell is hell and

00:57:39.760 so terrible because he is there. But he's there not in his mercy or grace or love. He's there in

00:57:45.260 his justice. And so there's no place where God is not because he's infinite. And one attribute of

00:57:51.320 being infinite is omnipresence. And that has to do with being spirit. But angels are not infinite.

00:57:57.800 They are created beings like you and I, different in some regard, but like you and I, they're

00:58:03.780 not infinite in any regard, including omnipresence.

00:58:06.840 So an angel is not everywhere all at once.

00:58:09.880 So if they are pure spirit, we know that they still have a physical locale, that that spirit

00:58:15.100 is concentrated in some way to where the alien, not alien, the angel, which is in a sense

00:58:21.480 alien, but the angel is there before God in the throne room worshiping.

00:58:26.560 And then all of a sudden with the Virgin Mary giving a message, you know, that you're going

00:58:30.500 to be the mother of the Messiah, the Son of God.

00:58:33.600 And so, you know, but there's locale, there's geographic, they're bound.

00:58:38.140 Can be contained.

00:58:39.200 Can be contained.

00:58:40.340 Now, all that being said, biblically, I'm not aware of any, you know, clear, explicit

00:58:47.460 scripture that tells me that angels don't have bodies.

00:58:52.940 Now, I know that they have some unique spiritual capacities that I think we will have in our

00:58:59.360 glorified state.

00:59:00.720 For now, there's something to be said.

00:59:02.080 Hebrews says this, and ultimately, the ultimate fulfillment that's first found in the Psalms,

00:59:06.260 Hebrews quotes the Psalms, its ultimate fulfillment is found in Christ.

00:59:10.120 You made him just a little lower, but it is also true of man.

00:59:14.000 Who is man that you are mindful of him or the son of man that you should care for?

00:59:17.540 One thing about humanity is that we are temporarily, so we will one day judge angels.

00:59:23.340 And in our glorified state, I believe that we will have the capacity of angels and I think even surpass them.

00:59:30.020 But for now, you have made him a little lower than the angels.

00:59:35.500 And so I think currently angels are, it's not like just two radically different species.

00:59:41.600 like humans are like chihuahuas and angels are like blue whales. No, I think you've made him a

00:59:49.600 little lower than the angels. When there are angelic encounters in the scripture, whether

00:59:55.760 it be Joshua, they look like men. And I don't think it's just a hologram projection, an apparition.

01:00:03.860 I think there's something to be said, that's Gabriel. And I can recognize him in this

01:00:09.740 visitation. And if I were to see him again, I'd be able to recognize him again. There is some sort

01:00:15.380 of consistency, even in not only a contained physical locale, but also a physical appearance.

01:00:22.220 He has a physical look. He has a countenance. So all that being said, I think part of the reason

01:00:30.080 why Christians are fascinated with aliens or Bigfoot or whatever, is because they don't have

01:00:38.580 an angelic category because they've been taught to think that angels are a very one-dimensional,

01:00:46.920 simple, truncated, they're just spirits floating on clouds. But I would be surprised if that's

01:00:57.040 what angels really are. I think that angels are profoundly spiritual, profoundly spiritual.

01:01:02.740 But I do think that angels are far more fleshly

01:01:06.300 and physical, ontological than we're willing to admit

01:01:10.960 to the degree where a fallen angel

01:01:15.100 could actually procreate with the daughters of men.

01:01:19.060 In Genesis 6, I'm not of the Sethite persuasion.

01:01:22.700 Here I am. 0.98

01:01:23.540 I can do no other than Nephilim.

01:01:25.880 But you can't do chihuahua and blue whale procreation.

01:01:29.260 but you can do if man is a little lower than the angels and we're thinking in the same species

01:01:35.080 but simply different veins of subspecies you can mate two different canines one could be a German

01:01:42.740 shepherd and one could be a beagle there are they are different and one is a little lower than the

01:01:48.460 other but they're not on on opposite ends of the spectrum there's a similarity and I think man

01:01:54.420 and angel are more like that, German shepherd and beagle, than they are chihuahua and blue whale.

01:02:01.480 And if that's the case, then that's not to lessen the spiritual side of the angelic at all,

01:02:08.200 but it is to ramp up a little bit more of the physical component of the angelic. And that

01:02:14.240 then provides a theological category for, in real tangible space and time, a floating tic-tac

01:02:21.840 that's not just an apparition,

01:02:24.320 but there is a physical thing

01:02:26.020 that will show up on heat radars

01:02:27.640 and it's real.

01:02:29.980 You can touch it.

01:02:30.960 Yeah, I think what you do see with this,

01:02:33.820 and you can give me final thoughts,

01:02:35.220 is that I do know there's a lot of areas

01:02:37.700 in which I would like to increase my understanding.

01:02:40.060 I would like to read.

01:02:41.420 You had Doug Van Dorn on.

01:02:43.120 You really enjoyed his book,

01:02:44.420 The Angel of the Lord.

01:02:45.520 I know I definitely want to freshen myself up

01:02:47.600 when it comes to the understanding

01:02:49.060 of angels and demons.

01:02:50.200 I think that's good understanding

01:02:51.400 through the realm of scripture, but I do think

01:02:54.060 when you do, being comical

01:02:55.900 for a second, when you look at the linear timeline

01:02:57.780 I think the activity of

01:02:59.460 the unseen realms, particularly fallen angels

01:03:02.020 is very much reminiscent of

01:03:03.660 what's depicting a lot of the Looney Tunes

01:03:05.600 where there's a whole

01:03:07.060 room full of

01:03:09.720 TNT and all of a sudden

01:03:11.980 there's this line of

01:03:12.980 a keg of just gunpowder

01:03:15.660 that leads up to it, and somehow it gets lit

01:03:17.940 and it's going, shh, and the angel

01:03:19.740 And the person, whether it's Sylvester the cat or whoever,

01:03:22.960 they're trying to like stamp it out and stamp it out and stop it.

01:03:25.880 So basically that's what you see is there's this bloodline

01:03:30.020 starting from Eve going through.

01:03:33.460 And here are all these Looney Tunes characters of fallen angels

01:03:35.800 trying to like stamp it out and trying to stop it to the room full of TNT. 0.98

01:03:39.220 Because they know the woman is going to crush the head. 1.00

01:03:41.460 Which is the head, like, no, no, it's going to crush the head. 1.00

01:03:43.200 Stop it, stop it, stop it.

01:03:44.140 And so everything from, you know, Genesis 6 to, you know, everyone always fascinated me too when it comes to the nativity story, right?

01:03:54.440 And how it's depicted as wonderful and innocent around Christmas time.

01:03:58.760 Everyone always forgets about the Carid's decree to go and like kill the firstborn.

01:04:05.060 Like I have had one instance where I, as being a deacon, I was a first responder to someone at our congregation who, whose son, you know, six month old son had a brain aneurysm and died.

01:04:18.620 that one person like that grief like i'd still like prescribes me to this day um i can't imagine

01:04:28.340 like a city full of that like what's there and then having to like escape you know and find

01:04:37.300 refuge in uh to egypt to escape the rage of a of a wrathful king um like there's a level of like

01:04:45.080 violence that comes through, like this visceral reaction to try and stop this from happening.

01:04:51.360 And I think that is, but regardless, like God is still sovereign in his ways and purposes,

01:04:56.660 and as much as they attempt to thwart it, they can't stop it. So I think one of the areas,

01:05:03.280 while many, you know, God bless them, many New Agers who do tend to get into, come out of the 1.00

01:05:09.100 New Age to Christ, they tend to go to a little cage stage when it comes to dispensationalism and

01:05:13.980 believing that we're in the end times, even though I've been through, I think I've been

01:05:18.300 through like nine or five days of Noah. It's back. They're going to start human hybrids.

01:05:23.180 Right. But I do think, honestly, I think one of the most helpful practical ways when it comes to 0.98

01:05:28.560 having like my convictions about eschatology is being able to look at all the craziness in the

01:05:35.320 world and looking at this exchange of worldviews, knowing that, okay, if the nations are going to

01:05:41.920 to be subjugated to Christ. You know, there's a saying that says, the obstacle is the way.

01:05:46.660 Well, it's going to be through the conquering of the, and taking everything caught, like taking,

01:05:52.980 really tearing down strongholds and taking everything in subjugation that's in contrast

01:05:58.200 to Christ. The obstacle is the way, which means all these different unbelieving worldviews that 0.82

01:06:03.260 we have to confront through the power of the gospel. So rather than being fearful of it,

01:06:07.560 And let's just face it and trust the Lord.

01:06:13.080 And the battle is the Lord.

01:06:14.140 All we have to do is operate in faithfulness in the spheres that God has called us to,

01:06:20.640 both in self-government, family government, being the best father that I can be,

01:06:24.420 to be an exemplar of our Heavenly Father,

01:06:27.840 and to bring the hope of the gospel to a world that is facing a lot of the consequences of embracing one-ism.

01:06:36.300 That's good, man.

01:06:37.160 Yeah, I mean, Joel had my brain going in so many different directions there, talking about the beagle and the German shepherd and angel flesh and stuff.

01:06:46.260 So, man, I wish we could continue talking about that because I have so many interesting questions about that.

01:06:51.600 I know maybe we'll save that for another time.

01:06:53.740 Okay.

01:06:53.900 But that is interesting.

01:06:55.580 I'm a boring person.

01:06:56.560 I hold the Sethite view.

01:06:57.760 Oh, yeah.

01:06:58.480 It's certainly boring.

01:06:59.580 Yeah, it's certainly boring.

01:07:01.200 But I do find it interesting in thinking of the flesh.

01:07:04.020 It does say we're created from the dust of the earth.

01:07:05.780 I think that we're made of the things

01:07:07.460 in which we inhabit in the cosmos.

01:07:09.160 And I don't see that with angels.

01:07:12.200 Is there a higher celestial substance

01:07:14.360 that they're made of?

01:07:15.860 But a beagle and a German shepherd

01:07:17.380 both come from a wolf.

01:07:19.760 And I don't see that

01:07:20.800 as us being of that same substance.

01:07:23.140 Yeah, you see them coming from, 0.54

01:07:24.480 yeah, Nihu, coming from two different places.

01:07:26.300 It would be an awesome conversation to have 1.00

01:07:27.760 because you're making my brain.

01:07:28.760 I've actually been wrestling with this personally,

01:07:30.680 this view going through

01:07:31.820 some of the Unseen Realms stuff.

01:07:33.560 but absolutely fascinating conversation.

01:07:36.300 You got my brain going.

01:07:37.340 Here's one more question for you

01:07:38.580 and for the audience that you can leave it with.

01:07:40.380 So one thing that's cool is that,

01:07:41.880 we have with the person and work of Jesus Christ

01:07:45.700 and his earthly ministry and the story of redemption,

01:07:48.320 we have his birth, his life, his death, his burial,

01:07:54.980 his resurrection and his vanishing, his ascension.

01:07:59.840 like i think it is notable that when it's all said and done jesus doesn't just vanish and we

01:08:08.060 know that he could because he had done that right he appeared and the doors were closed and he just

01:08:13.820 appeared after his resurrection on the first day of the week to the apostles uh his disciples and

01:08:19.060 then a week later because thomas wasn't there the first time again on the lord's day the first day

01:08:23.580 the week he appears and and it's just this it is like kind of appearing and disappearing but then

01:08:30.720 when he finally goes to be with the father he doesn't vanish which would make a lot of sense

01:08:37.020 because it's like you're going to heaven where god dwells you're going to a spiritual realm right

01:08:42.080 you're not going to something within the i mean it couldn't be couldn't possibly be that the third

01:08:47.620 heaven is somewhere within you know the created order it couldn't be that you're going to a

01:08:52.420 physical, literal place that we simply can't get to, but it's somewhere within the universe,

01:08:57.240 you must be going to a place that is strictly exclusively 100% a spiritual place. Well then,

01:09:03.000 okay, if that's the case, then vanish, disappear to get there. But he doesn't. And the apostles

01:09:09.300 only look away because he's hidden by a cloud. He's not hidden because he disappears. He's

01:09:15.660 physically ascending going somewhere in time and space and is only covered and and disappears as

01:09:23.360 it were because he's veiled by a physical cloud that hides his physical body that's still in the

01:09:28.900 physical air going somewhere and here's the thing like we we all as christians within the realm of

01:09:33.620 orthodoxy hold to he is forever the god man and so um before in the beginning was the word the

01:09:39.580 word was with god but at some point in human history the word took on flesh and and that

01:09:45.340 flesh will never be taken off. And so he is the God man. And that flesh that just, so take angels

01:09:53.040 out of the equation and you could start the questions with just the son of God. If you just

01:09:57.920 start with Jesus, where is he? Wherever he is, he has flesh, physical flesh that has to stand on

01:10:06.520 something sit he is seated at the right hand what what does does flesh sit on like i would like to

01:10:15.740 think you know jesus he has a physical body physical bodies they're seated on physical thrones

01:10:22.600 and that physical throne wherever it is is at the right hand of god and so wherever this

01:10:30.540 thing is, and I know this is getting a little wacky here at the end.

01:10:35.440 This is cool.

01:10:36.120 Jesus is there and he's physical.

01:10:38.660 So why can't all these cherubim and seraphim and four living creatures, whatever they are,

01:10:44.100 and again, it's not to negate, certainly they're spiritual and we can't even comprehend that

01:10:48.360 spiritual element.

01:10:49.920 But to say that they're spiritual at the cost of being physical, I don't know if that's

01:10:56.880 required.

01:10:57.320 I theologically, I don't know if to heighten the spiritual side of the angelic requires a

01:11:03.820 diminishing of the physical side. And because it certainly doesn't with Jesus. Jesus right now has

01:11:10.120 flesh, a physical body, and physical bodies exist in physical places. He is somewhere in some

01:11:16.660 physical plane, whether it's in this universe or out of this universe, but it is wherever it is,

01:11:22.040 It is not merely an ethereal spiritual plane because Jesus has a body, a physical body that must exist in time and space.

01:11:32.580 So he is in a physical place, but that physical place we also know is the throne room of God at the right hand of God.

01:11:39.180 And we know that angels are there too surrounding the throne of God worshiping.

01:11:43.380 And so if Jesus can be there with a physical body, it must be some kind of physical place.

01:11:47.560 and that doesn't necessitate right so that that doesn't require that angels have a physical

01:11:52.180 component but i think that at least allows that they could have a physical component i i i want

01:11:58.960 to oh man i agree with you 110 because it says even the highest heavens can't contain god meaning

01:12:03.500 that it must be of some type of created order um the question would be is of the same substance

01:12:08.400 of humans yes so that's the question am i saying do they mix that's the question in terms of the

01:12:13.760 the Nephilim being sons of God.

01:12:15.740 And that's a fair question.

01:12:16.900 And the answer is yes.

01:12:18.900 I love it.

01:12:19.740 Thanks for tuning in.

01:12:20.720 Genesis 6.15.

01:12:22.340 Genesis 6.4.

01:12:23.740 All right.

01:12:24.440 Thank you guys so much.

01:12:25.520 Good questions.

01:12:26.760 And man, this, this might be,

01:12:28.600 this might be our best episode.

01:12:29.700 Yeah, this is a fun one.

01:12:30.800 That's a banger.

01:12:31.580 So check out, tell them one more time.

01:12:34.000 Can they check out the 10 part series that you guys got?

01:12:36.660 So thecultishow.com, Alien Revelations,

01:12:39.020 click on that or any of your favorite podcast catcher.

01:12:41.700 Colin Samuul did it.

01:12:42.420 He's actually working on season two right now.

01:12:44.720 I don't know if it's going to be on Cultish or not.

01:12:46.620 We haven't talked to him really about it.

01:12:47.580 Yeah, we'll figure it out.

01:12:48.240 We'll figure it out, but check it out, please.

01:12:50.400 It's so wonderful.

01:12:51.660 Awesome.

01:12:52.340 And then this, what you're listening to right now,

01:12:54.480 is just one episode also of a 10-part series.

01:12:57.000 No, you know, it's a coincidence that they happen to be the same.

01:12:59.260 But this is a 10-part series also,

01:13:01.020 and it's not 10 parts all on aliens,

01:13:03.440 but on a variety of topics.

01:13:05.860 We're talking about DMT,

01:13:07.920 one whole episode on DMT in the astral realm,

01:13:10.060 a whole episode on the divine feminine and Taylor Swift,

01:13:13.840 a whole episode on the occult

01:13:16.480 and a whole episode on neo-paganism.

01:13:18.880 So this is the episode on the grace,

01:13:20.800 the episode on all things alien and UFOlogy

01:13:24.480 and that kind of stuff.

01:13:26.040 But the 10 part series that all,

01:13:28.340 you know, with a theological side,

01:13:29.820 it all deals with each other.

01:13:31.540 So feel free to check out the other episodes

01:13:33.740 and we're releasing them one week at a time

01:13:35.600 on Fridays at 4 p.m.

01:13:37.100 Some of the later episodes may not

01:13:38.840 by the time you're listening to this,

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01:13:41.700 but if you wanna get early access

01:13:43.580 and immediately be able to check out

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01:13:50.120 Go to patreon.com forward slash Right Response Ministries.

01:13:53.320 All right, thanks for tuning in.

01:13:54.880 Real quick before you go,

01:13:56.220 we hope that you enjoyed the episode

01:13:57.760 and we hope that you're eager for more.

01:13:59.980 However, as I already said,

01:14:01.920 these will be slow dripping out over the course of weeks

01:14:05.020 and even a few months.

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01:14:22.420 God bless.

The NXR Podcast - August 16, 2024

THE FRIDAY SPECIAL - The Grays ｜ Ep 7 with @TheCultishShow

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