In this episode of Theology Applied, Pastor Joel Webin is joined by Ben Garrett and Brian Sauve of Haunted Cosmos to make the case for why Christians should vote for Donald Trump in the upcoming presidential election. They discuss the role of Christians in the abolitionist movement and the upcoming election.
00:03:07.360And so we're going to be talking about the abolitionist movement and the upcoming presidential
00:03:12.800election between President Joe Biden and former President Trump.
00:03:16.580so that's kind of uh the topic for today ben do you want to lead off with any thoughts um i can
00:03:24.000frame it up for us but i want to give you i uh i i would love to start by saying simply that i am an
00:03:31.620abolitionist in terms of the end end goal of this whole thing which is that i want abortion
00:03:37.180completely eradicated from not only the nation but the world and i believe that it will be
00:03:42.260So this is more a question of methodology and how we apply these principles more than it is of the principle itself. And so I would go hand in hand with my abolitionist brothers and say, heck yeah, man, keep doing your thing. It's really good.
00:03:59.320I think that most abolitionists do an unbelievable amount of effective work in the political realm,
00:04:07.540especially at the local level. They know their local magistrates. They talk to them regularly.
00:04:13.980They send them letters. They organize campaigns to get the right one elected and city council
00:04:19.600and things like that. And that's all amazing. So really, I guess just to start, I'd want to
00:04:24.820sing the praises of my abolitionist brothers and say that I'm glad to be a co belligerent with you
00:04:30.060in this big fight. And, um, and so I want us to all just stay friends. We can disagree about
00:04:35.560how we vote in a federal election. Um, and we can both give our, our defense for why we believe what
00:04:41.680we believe in that regard and, and yet still be like, yeah, and you're my brother at the end of
00:04:45.660the day. And I'm going to go to bat with you and get in the shield wall with you. Amen. Um, and
00:04:50.420And for those listening, if you are not only an abolitionist in terms of your position,
00:04:55.860but you are, you know, tightly knitted with abolitionist groups such as Abolitionist Rising
00:05:03.740or End Abortion Now or, you know, some of these different groups, Abolish Abortion Taxes.
00:09:20.700needs to be treated as homicide. If you don't have equal penalties, then you cannot say that
00:09:26.120there is equal protection. You have an entire class of people, namely the unborn, where you
00:09:31.580have this open season that's essentially been declared. Like if you kill someone who's born,
00:09:37.360you're going to be treated as though you've committed homicide. If you kill somebody0.96
00:09:41.540unborn, you will receive either nothing, no penalty at all, or a slap on the wrist.
00:09:47.040What you've essentially just said is that there's an entire class of human beings made in the image of God that you're allowed to kill.0.99
00:09:53.380Like, imagine if we did that for any other class of people, you know, you kill a white man and you're in big trouble.0.98
00:09:58.620You kill a black man and, you know, maybe you have a slight, you know, penalty or maybe no penalty at all.0.99
00:10:05.200People would be enraged, you know.0.99
00:10:07.020And so all that being said, I'm saying all these things just to, you know, to kind of display a little bit of been in my bona fides as it pertains to the position of abolitionism.
00:10:19.080So when we say we're abolitionists, we're saying we despise pro-life Inc.
00:10:23.680We think that they're from the pit of hell, that they have no desire to abolish abortion.
00:10:27.920Even worse than that, Democrats don't want to abolish abortion, but Pro-Life Inc. also doesn't want to abolish abortion and yet wants to lie and deceive conservative voters and donors and take their money as they don't abolish abortion.
00:10:43.400So they're wormtongue behind the throne of Theoden, saying that they're very interested in helping the king succeed all the while making sure that he stays under Sauron's fist and is capable of actually promoting anything good for his kingdom.
00:11:03.560Right Response Ministries 2025 conference is a go.
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00:13:26.660equal protection for those who are those lives which have already been born versus the lives of
00:13:31.940the unborn and if you don't have equal protection then you cannot claim to believe in equal dignity
00:13:37.060dignity that so that's the kind of the three the three lines of of logic is you know a plus b
00:13:43.880then c so equal penalties is the only way uh with with a clear conscience before the lord to truly
00:13:50.720say, by having equal penalties, you've actually set up equal protection. And without equal
00:13:57.900protection, then you cannot claim to believe in equal dignity. You must, if you're going to be
00:14:02.840honest, you must say that at the end of the day, we believe that the unborn child is part of a
00:14:10.500human life. It has some dignity, some value, but it has a lesser value. We have decided there will
00:14:18.960be lesser penalties because we are okay. We think it's permissible to have lesser protections and
00:14:26.520we're okay with lesser protections because at the end of the day, we believe that there's a lesser
00:14:30.560value, that this unborn child has less dignity. So that's the line of logic. So if you don't
00:14:36.660believe in capital punishment for all those involved, including the mother, when it comes
00:14:43.440to abortion, then it's not just, you're not an abolitionist. You are not holding the Christian0.89
00:14:48.460position. You are in sin. You're not being just at all. You're in justice. All right. So those0.81
00:14:55.240are those are our bona fides. In that sense, that's what we're that's what we mean when we
00:14:59.200say we're abolitionist. Now, I'll go one step further. I'll throw a few things out speaking
00:15:02.840for myself. And then, Ben, you can either say, yeah, I'm with you. Or you can say, yes, but
00:15:07.180and clarify your position if there's any way that you differ with me. Does that sound good?
00:15:11.600Sounds great. All right. So we've established, you know, first the destination, equal penalties,
00:15:17.040equal protection, equal dignity. Actually abolishing, intergalactic abolishing of abortion.
00:15:22.900We want to see it, you know, one day, you know, if Elon gets us to Mars, abortion needs to be
00:15:28.240abolished there too. So we're for that, not just in our nation, but the world. Second, okay, now0.93
00:15:34.300we're getting to the how, the methodology, the strategy. I would likewise fall into the abolitionist
00:15:40.780camp and with some strong disagreements with my incrementalist, even smash mouth incrementalism
00:15:47.840brothers in Christ in a few regards. Here's one. I believe that at the local level,
00:15:54.520as it pertains to locally presenting bills, I believe that they must be equal weights and
00:16:04.180measures, God's standard of justice, they must be just bills. That a Christian cannot propose1.00
00:16:09.920a bill that says you must not murder on Wednesday, but you can commit murder on Thursday. I would say1.00
00:16:17.700that that is an unjust bill and that a Christian cannot propose a bill like that apart from it1.00
00:16:24.140being sent. Agree? Disagree? What do you think? Completely agree. Great. So now we're talking1.00
00:16:29.900about methodology, not just the destination, but how we get there. And we are distinguishing
00:16:34.340ourselves from your classical incrementalist because the incrementalist, even the smash mouth
00:16:39.660incrementalist, if I might be so bold, I think this is true and a steel man, not a straw man
00:16:44.020of their position. They would say, um, that you actually can propose unjust bills, uh, so long as
00:16:51.180it's moving the needle in the right direction. If it's going to result in less murders, um,
00:16:56.820then then uh as long as you're it's it's not um justice is determined not by um the innate
00:17:05.220position that you present but um but merely by comparison so long as your position the bill you
00:17:12.300propose is an improvement on the last one and the problem with that is one that's not god's standard
00:17:16.920of justice two um even from a pragmatic approach and i'm not a guy who thinks all pragmatism is
00:17:25.100bad i think that that that's on it let's just be honest the whole attack from reform baptists and
00:17:30.460presbyterians on pragmatism you know over the last you know 10 20 years we should have been
00:17:35.920clear on that because really what we were talking about was laser lights and smoke machines on the
00:17:40.340lord's day we're talking about the regular principle of worship we weren't talking about
00:17:43.460politics right and now but now there's all these young guys who've been discipled into anything
00:17:49.300pragmatic as sin you know or fleshly you know sarks carnal and and not of god you know it's not
00:17:55.600by might nor by power but by my spirit says the lord yeah david always assembled an army though
00:18:00.380right yeah so yes we you know like we don't trust in in horses and chariots our trust is in the lord
00:18:06.700but david still had horses and chariots that were trained and equipped and furnished out of the
00:18:12.660dowry of the king and so you know so anyway so pragmatism is not an inherent evil um i think
00:18:18.440being pragmatic at the cost of the regular of what god prescribes prescriptive commands for
00:18:24.760worship on the lord's day that is sin but there's a distinction there go ahead yeah well especially
00:18:30.400politically you want to be as shrewd as a serpent you want to be that but you also have to be as
00:18:37.180as innocent as a dove and so there's a lot of room for pragmatism in the political sphere
00:18:42.300not nearly as much in the ecclesiastical sphere though sometimes there may be some on tertiary
00:18:47.320issues right but when your pragmatism is butted up against a clear standard of god's justice
00:18:52.920you can't participate in that pragmatism amen amen okay so that's uh so step one was
00:18:59.160the destination what actually are we trying to accomplish we're both on the same page and we
00:19:03.640would agree that the abolitionists would have no difference with us thus far now we're talking
00:19:08.520about step two the the methodology the strategy how do we get there in terms of bills that's the
00:19:13.480first thing that we're addressing presenting bills and we're saying they have to be just bills
00:19:17.240bills for the complete abolition of abortion, which again, includes, you know, equal penalties,
00:19:23.600therefore equal protection, therefore equal value. Right, right there on that step, we again have
00:19:29.700distinguished ourselves from incrementalist, including smash mouth incrementalist. And,
00:19:34.480and, you know, and, and I think we still, our abolitionist brothers would say, yep, so far,
00:19:40.840so good on the same page. Next thing that I would bring to the table, still in the realm of how
00:19:45.760methodology. How do we accomplish this goal of abolishing abortion? Next thing I would say
00:19:50.780is in terms of local elections, local elections, and primarily in the primaries and selecting
00:20:00.060candidates, lobbying for certain candidates, running campaigns, working towards, you know,
00:20:06.420one of the premier examples would be like Senator Dusty Devers. God bless him forever. May he live
00:20:11.500forever um you know for more years um you know and so uh that that was abolitionists were heavily
00:20:18.340involved dusty devers is an abolitionist himself and very outspoken about that and uh that would
00:20:23.740be a great example of our brothers and sisters in christ who are abolitionists um not larping i
00:20:29.280don't think that that's a fair characterization uh but actually getting something done they got
00:20:34.100they got a guy elected as a state senator it's amazing it's amazing praise god yeah it's oklahoma
00:20:40.020You know, but Oklahoma's still a state, you know, praise God. And so that's, that's incredible. So I would say at that level, so bills that you present, they must be abolitionist bills, they must be just. And then same with, I think I personally would say the same with candidates in terms of not the final vote for a candidate, but in terms of candidates that you present, just like presenting a bill, presenting candidates in terms of your campaigning, in terms of your selection, identifying, lobbying, especially in local elections,
00:21:09.400and especially at the level of primary local, in the primaries of local elections, same standard.
00:21:15.760This guy has to abhor abortion and want to see it abolished. Okay. So what do you think? Yes,
00:21:21.600no? Yeah, I completely agree. When a Christian is lobbying actively for a candidate, especially
00:21:27.540a local magistrate, especially a local magistrate who has a ton of say over his everyday life in
00:21:33.000the city, he must be able to stand behind that candidate in a way that's more ideal.
00:21:40.680Now, the man is imperfect. There will be sin. But if the man is directly contradicting God's
00:21:48.380standard of justice and morality, then at a local level and actively lobbying for a primary type0.67
00:21:55.340election, I don't think a Christian should back that man up, should back his play. If he knows1.00
00:22:00.340that that candidate is in an adulterous affair with another woman, then it would be foolish of0.96
00:22:05.240a Christian to say, well, he should definitely be the civil magistrate though. Right. That would be0.99
00:22:09.120foolish. And so at the primary level, completely agree. Great. Okay. So now let's say still a0.97
00:22:15.980local election, not federal. We'll get there last because that's the big thing where I think we
00:22:21.520would differ is can you be a Christian, an abolitionist Christian and vote for Donald
00:22:28.100j trump spoiler alert you bet your bottom dollar you can um and you should but we'll save that for
00:22:35.360a little bit later on and make a you know flesh out our arguments there but so now let's talk
00:22:38.680about it's not primary so so we've already addressed bills we're now talking and for the
00:22:42.600record the public doesn't vote on bills elected official we vote on individuals uh to be elected
00:22:48.660to office both locally and federally and then those officials vote on bills and that's why
00:22:55.160the bills presented by these elected officials they need to be just and the the elected officials
00:23:03.000themselves in the primaries of local elections and i would also argue even at the federal level
00:23:07.880in the primaries we need to be selecting good candidates that meet god's standard of justice
00:23:14.780and i would actually apply here as a general equity theonomy guy i would apply deuteronomy 18
00:23:19.920as it pertains to the primary, as it pertains to, this would be kind of, this would be like
00:23:26.260Acts chapter seven, Acts chapter six, where the apostles, so you could do Deuteronomy 18 and think
00:23:32.140of Moses in Israel, but you could also think of the apostles and the church at Jerusalem and a
00:23:37.060New Testament example, because apparently every evangelical, if it's not in the New Testament,
00:23:41.320then it's not Christian. So we'll go with that, you know, which is so stupid.1.00
00:23:45.140Yeah, Joel, New Testament Christianity.1.00
00:23:56.380But anyways, so all that being said, the point is that the church at Jerusalem was commissioned by the apostles to select men to fill the office of what we believe was kind of the, you know, the origin of the diaconate.
00:24:11.580But what's noticeable is there's four criteria that is not set by the people.
00:24:18.520It's not democratic. It's not the people and their collective corporate decision,
00:24:23.460but rather the apostles themselves make four determinations. One, the timing. They could
00:24:31.860have said it, you know, six months in advance, or they could have said it six years after the fact,
00:24:35.820but they determined when deacons were required. We need deacons now. So they determined the timing
00:24:41.780of when deacons would be appointed. Number two, the number of deacons, not three men,
00:24:47.620not 10 men, seven. We want seven. Okay. So when deacons would be appointed, how many deacons
00:24:54.200would be appointed, the qualifications for those deacons, they need to be men. They need to be0.70
00:25:00.360filled with the Holy Spirit, endowed with wisdom. So they need to be qualified. Here are the
00:25:04.460qualifications. So they determine when we need deacons, how many deacons we need, what caliber
00:25:10.140of men they need to be, the qualifications for deacons. And then lastly, also the role of that
00:25:16.860office. What are their duties? We need deacons for a particular purpose. So you, the church,
00:25:24.100in a democratic fashion, do not get to decide what the deacons are going to be doing. So you
00:25:29.260don't determine how many we're going to have. You don't determine when we're going to have them.
00:25:32.300You don't determine what their qualifications will be. And you also don't determine what their
00:25:36.220task will be. You don't get to pick seven men filled with Holy Spirit and then say,
00:25:40.440And we'd like these seven men to, you know, to be the party planners committee of the Jerusalem church for, you know, conducting, you know, outings and fun, you know, birthday parties for, you know, the families that are members of the church here at Jerusalem.
00:26:19.200I would add that one of the things that's implicit in that is that because all of those
00:26:24.660factors are being determined by the apostolic authority, that implies that the diaconate
00:26:30.640has some level of authority in itself.
00:26:32.620And so within the task set before them, they have the authority to make decisions. They have agency. And of course, it's under the oversight of the elders. They don't surpass the elders in any regard. But they do have in the church their own authority. And so you can think of them as a sort of lesser magistrate of church government within the scope that the apostles or today, the pastors and elders of a church have set before them.
00:27:01.100Amen. Yeah, less authority than the elders, but absolutely the office carries authority. It is
00:27:06.940not an authority-less office. No office of leadership without authority exists in the
00:27:14.880civil realm or the ecclesiastical realm or the familial realm with the home. God always binds
00:27:21.580both responsibility and rights, privileges, authority together. It's a package deal,
00:27:28.360two peas in a pot god never gives um certain duties without giving the corresponding authority
00:27:34.660so like a police officer it's not just serve and protect right that's they exist to serve and
00:27:39.240protect but they're also consequently given a badge and a gun you don't just throw them out
00:27:44.080there or you shouldn't maybe a democrat would probably do it but um no sane person but i repeat
00:27:49.680myself no non-democrat would ever you know uh have a police force and commission them to go
00:27:55.500and clean up the streets, you know, but not give them a gun, not give them a weapon. And so,
00:28:06.660teaming up power and duty, authority and responsibility always together. The deacon
00:28:13.480has responsibilities and therefore he does have a certain degree of ecclesiastical power
00:28:19.260or authority to carry, to carry those things out. It is not an authority less office.
00:28:25.500Yeah. And if I can add, part of why this is important to the broader conversation, even though it sounds a little more tangential, is because that means that the deacon doesn't have to listen to the members of the church for his marching orders.
00:28:39.740You know, if a member of the church comes up to the deacon and says, hey, we really need to fix this. It may be true, but the deacon knows his business.
00:28:46.660And so he can say, thanks for letting me know, no, for whatever reason. And so when we miss that, and we think that that's actually bad, it means that we hate the way that God made the world. Because what we're effectively saying is that this person who within the hierarchy of the church is above me, actually should be beneath me.
00:29:07.240And so if you take that to the civil realm, you run into something like this. I heard that this was going on in Nashville, Tennessee, or Memphis, Tennessee. The cops there have a no-pursuit law. So if you run a red light and the cop sees you, he cannot chase you.
00:29:24.000Um, what that is, is a fruit of a leftist hating the way that God made the world.
00:37:17.180the deaconate same kind of thing you know deacon means you know it's servant but people think that
00:37:22.660that just means powerless servant leadership less servant authority less servant and that is not
00:37:29.840true now back to the civil realm and and abolition and these kinds of things the the point is that
00:37:37.080that as it pertained to deuteronomy 18 and moses with israel i think it's a similar similar
00:37:43.280principle there that you have later on in Acts chapter 6 with the seven deacons and the apostles
00:37:49.320in Jerusalem. In both instances, it's actually the exact opposite in many ways from our current
00:38:00.640system. And here's the thing, as you seek to be a Christian, we don't have the luxury. This gets
00:38:06.440into, okay, so you've left the realm of pragmatism. Great. Pat yourself on the back. I know you feel
00:38:11.840really proud of that uh but you've you've entered into the realm of idealism we don't need ideologues0.99
00:38:18.860we don't need um principled losers beautiful losers in our american system so the christian
00:38:25.760doesn't have the luxury of doing theology in a vacuum we are called to be as faithful as we can0.96
00:38:30.380in the times that we were given straight up give give us the gandalf line right what's the gandalf
00:38:35.780man, what does he say? No one wishes for such times, but yeah, it's just all we have to decide
00:38:43.780is what to do with the times that we've been given. Amen. Amen. We don't get to determine
00:38:47.500the times. So we don't get to decide the context. What we get to decide is being as faithful as we
00:38:53.360possibly can as Christians within a given context. So it's not, the good is often slaughtered
00:39:03.640by the ideal. The ideal, you know, it's like how in the world can conservatives and Christians so
00:39:10.720often, you know, snatch defeat from the jaws of victory? Well, that's actually not all the time
00:39:17.900accomplished by pragmatism. Very often that's actually accomplished on the other side of the
00:39:22.420aisle by idealism. Idealism can be just as dangerous. Are you desiring to change your
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00:41:21.600we have we have so much capacity for this in every other realm except the political so often
00:41:32.880when you get married your marriage is an infant it's a toddler and so you have to nurse it and
00:41:39.600nurture it and you're more patient and there's flaws but you're like yeah but we're working
00:41:43.480towards better um not compromising but also realizing that sometimes people just screw it up
00:41:50.280And so being gracious and not being willing to just say, well, this covenant doesn't matter because you didn't submit to me that one time. No, that would be ridiculous. We do this with our children. We do this with our churches. But somehow, when we get to the political sphere, we can tend to lose that charity, that understanding of how the world works, which is through time.
00:42:13.860I like to say that providence is perfect beauty worked out in imperfect time. You're in imperfect
00:42:20.660time and you have to figure out how to be faithful there. And oftentimes that's going to look like
00:42:26.380patience, being patient. And so part of the point that we have to, and we're starting to get a
00:42:32.780little bit more to the actual point of where we might disagree with some of our abolitionist
00:42:37.860brothers is that you have to be willing to hold in your mind a lot of different priorities and
00:42:44.760things in the political sphere allow me to give one example um i don't want a civil war over
00:42:52.600abortion because i have kids and i don't want them to die in a civil war my responsibility i've said
00:43:00.040several times ben i think you're gonna love this i've said several times that part of natural
00:43:03.880affections, which is good, right, and biblical. Part of natural affections, what that imposes on
00:43:09.860me as a husband and father is that this is, you know, this is shocking for, you know, a lot of
00:43:15.580reformed, you know, otherwise great Christian men and women. But I think this is absolutely
00:43:21.820biblical and right. Crazy thing here. I love my children more than I love the unborn children
00:43:29.320of others i love my children more than the so if i have two choices and they're both uh gonna
00:43:36.100murder babies right like i'm not sitting here saying oh you know trump is uh you know the
00:43:41.000campaign he's currently running and the positions that he's currently espousing are um really pro
00:43:46.500life no of course they're not i know that i know that um and and i also understand that
00:43:53.120pragmatically uh this is an argument the abolitionists in a pragmatic sense they're
00:43:58.440saying, well, when it comes to abortion pills, you know, and these kinds of things that at the
00:44:03.300end of the day, the numbers don't go down. In fact, you can make an argument from statistics
00:44:06.660and this, that, you know, blah, blah, blah, that actually the numbers have actually gone up
00:44:10.440overall. And so Donald Trump in a pragmatic sense, in terms of raw statistics, even the ways that he
00:44:17.700is more pro-life than Biden, which isn't much, even in those ways that he is more pro-life than
00:44:22.300Biden, his policies and his campaign, his platform will not actually save any more babies.
00:44:28.440If anything, it might make it might make pregnant mothers even more vigilant to to get abortion sooner or to or to make pills more more accessible from pharmaceutical companies and easier to mail in and to order and all these kinds of things.
00:44:44.720And so I totally get that. But here's the deal. This is what you can't say.0.98
00:44:49.200So I'm not sitting here saying I'm going to vote for Trump because he's significantly more pro-life than Biden.
00:47:11.420Yeah. So I have four daughters now and a wife. Yeah. And so if I have any say at all to lower the statistical likelihood of my wife and daughters being raped and murdered, I'm going to use my vote to do precisely that.
00:47:28.240To increase their safety and lower the likelihood of atrocities being committed against them, a.k.a. build a wall. A.k.a. build a wall.
00:47:38.060and to be, to, to, to be really charitable. Like I want to make clear what I'm not saying is that
00:47:43.560if a Christian doesn't vote for Trump, it's the equivalent, it's the moral equivalent of voting
00:47:47.200for Biden. It's not right. Voting for Biden would be sinful. Uh, not voting is not sinful,0.84
00:47:52.360but I think it's foolish. Yes. Amen. Those are good categories. And it's, and it's unhelpful.
00:47:58.040Um, and so I would, I would exhort my, my friends, um, to, to just think like,
00:48:03.560okay the life thing yeah it's really ugly everybody hates it moving on we'll address
00:48:09.360that when we can we'll keep addressing it at a local level right like dogs we won't let them
00:48:13.920sleep you know and we'll keep bills with primaries with local elections with dusty deavers with all
00:48:19.140that with our preaching with our evangelizing at every level like it says in isaiah we won't give
00:48:24.240the lord rest we will pray and pray and pray and precatory psalms and uh and and all that yes we
00:48:31.000don't stop doing any of that but you also have to think like there is another thing that exists
00:48:36.620uh there are other things that exist and one of the big ones one of the most easy ones to to
00:48:41.380conceptualize of of its importance is immigration right and if biden wins my kids are going to be
00:48:47.020threatened and i don't threatened more than if trump we will likely if biden wins we will likely
00:48:52.400have another 20 million immigrants and most of them illegal some of them uh legal um virtually
00:48:59.600none of them citizens. So even the legal ones would be work visas, student visas, eventually0.81
00:49:04.480maybe green cards, things like that. So you're talking about 20 more. We have 330 million total
00:49:09.240population. We've already got anywhere from nine to 20 million just in his first term. We will
00:49:13.880likely get that, if not more, in a second term if we have Biden for four more years, or he won't
00:49:20.420live for four more years, but Harris or whatever it ends up being. And here's the other thing.
00:49:26.400So one, the protection, natural affection is the protection of our own, speaking primarily
00:49:34.380Second thing to consider, back to abortion and protecting the unborn child, how does
00:49:40.920it, how is it, help me with this, Ben, how is it to our advantage as abolitionists that
00:49:46.100want to see abortion eradicated from the face of the earth, starting first with our state,
00:49:50.700our state and then our country here as these United States of America, how does it help0.56
00:49:56.160us to import 20 million more pro-abortion voters right yeah and that is a big deal because they
00:50:03.320the people who are coming i mean it's a landslide yep it's it is a lance it's over 80 percent of the
00:50:10.480people who are immigrating in vote for democrats and not even because they're necessarily pro-abortion
00:50:15.340i'm not even saying that all these uh uh immigrants are pro-abortion what i am saying who let you in
00:50:21.620the house right but what i am exactly exactly what i'm saying is i'm not saying they're pro-abortion
00:50:26.720but i'm saying democrats are and they'll vote for democrats who will who will see to it that we have
00:50:31.980more abortion um and they'll vote for him not because of abortion abortion but despite abortion
00:50:36.520because the one thing that democrats do that these immigrants want is uh that the immigrants uh are
00:50:42.240are were let in the house by democrats and so they want democrats to maintain power so that they'll
00:50:47.220let their friends and family also in the house in years to come. Of course, this is basic logic
00:50:52.020bared up by statistics. It's abundantly clear. And so even at the pro-life issue, so one,
00:50:57.920immigration. So we're saying Donald Trump is better on life. It's not by much. And in terms
00:51:02.080of real statistics and all those kinds of babies murdered, it not only may be negligible, but there
00:51:08.720may be no difference, discernible difference at all. So I'm conceding all that as absolutely
00:51:13.880reasonable arguments to be made by my abolitionist brothers and sisters. But then what I want to say
00:51:18.540is, okay, so we've established that. Let's now pan out to other issues. Immigration matters for
00:51:22.940our own wives and children. So not just caring about the unborn children of others, but caring
00:51:27.380about the born children of ourselves, that we have a moral duty under God to care for first.
00:51:32.880And then ironically, in the providence of God, because God doesn't pit us, you know, one good
00:51:38.120thing against another, God usually makes things fairly clear. The beauty is that by protecting
00:51:42.320our own against, uh, uh, immigration at the level of, of an invasion, uh, that also helps on the0.56
00:51:48.340life issue because it helps on not importing 20 million more Democrat voters. Right. But having
00:51:54.520natural progeny that love the land that they're born in, that have pride in it and that are
00:52:00.040Christians. Amen. And so grow and be wise. And heritage America, just for the record,
00:52:05.320it doesn't mean a mono color, but it does mean a mono culture. We should have one. It is not
00:52:11.080diversity is not our strength, especially insofar as we're talking about diversity of religion,
00:52:16.860worship, culture, thought, that is not our strength. If we have different colors of people,0.99
00:52:22.040when we talk about heritage America, that's what we want to get back to. Heritage America,
00:52:26.160it was predominantly Anglo-European white, predominantly, but not exclusively. There
00:52:31.620are black people in the country that can trace back their ancestry further than I can,
00:52:36.160that are a part of heritage America, not the first generation Nigerian immigrant,
00:52:41.080but black people who have been here in their family line for 400 years. That's a part of
00:52:45.640Heritage America. That's what we want is we don't want an ethnic cleansing. We don't want a mono
00:52:50.900white people, mono color, but we do want mono culture. And what culture is that? Well, it's0.96
00:52:57.500the culture of Heritage America, which was predominantly not only Christian, but it was
00:53:03.520also Protestant. We want a pan-Protestant monoculture of heritage America, which does
00:53:10.400include at the level of ethnicity, other shades of skin pigment. That's perfectly fine.0.99
00:53:17.560But that's what we want. We want that because it's true to our fathers. It's part of the
00:53:22.460fifth commandment and honoring our fathers. It also happens to be, it's not just, we like this
00:53:27.160culture better because it's ours. No, it's not just that. We like this culture, an Anglo-Protestant
00:53:33.680culture that can have non-Anglos in it, like Clarence Thomas is Anglo-Protestant for all
00:53:38.600intents and purposes. He's been shaped and forged by that culture, although he's a black man. Praise
00:53:43.060God for him. Glad he's on the team. But this Anglo-Protestant culture is the monoculture that
00:53:47.800we want, and we want it not just because it's our heritage and it's honoring our fathers and0.97
00:53:53.080obedience to the fifth commandment um it's not just because it's ours it's also because it's
00:53:57.220better um right not all cultures are equal uh anglo-protestant culture is superior what you0.81
00:54:03.720think that your culture is superior to yes yes i think it's superior to indian culture
00:54:09.340causes the constituent parts of that culture to flourish more than hinduism amen of course0.95
00:54:17.000all of them it just is better i'm a christian and i think that christianity is better than
00:54:22.780false religions crazy yeah i actually think i didn't only think that i think that they're0.98
00:54:28.060horrible and like piles of garbage hot garbage on fire one of the things i was gonna say when you0.98
00:54:33.340say they're just for the record real quick you're talking about there being the other religions0.97
00:54:37.720other worldviews not the people the people created in the image of god we pray for their salvation0.99
00:54:42.060repentance yep but those cultures are terrible the thing shaping them is a pile of hot garbage1.00
00:54:48.400that's on fire. And the worldview will burn in hell. To steal a turn of phrase from Stephen1.00
00:54:55.420Wolfe, it is worth recognizing. And I know that I want to belabor the point because I want to show
00:55:00.480the points of agreement. Abortion is a civilization level threat, like feminism. Abortion1.00
00:55:06.100is absolutely a thing that threatens to end society in a particularly vile way, because not
00:55:12.580only does it kill its own people, which it does, but it also brings down heavy judgment from God
00:55:19.920onto a place. It does all those things. It's a civilization level threat. But there are other
00:55:25.560civilization level threats. That's part of the point I'm trying to make. And one of them is this
00:55:29.920immigration thing. And so as we're trying to work through how we balance these principles,
00:55:34.760first of all, stay true to your principles and don't sin against your conscience.
00:55:38.300But also ask yourself, okay, let's say Trump was actually really good on the life issue, except he allowed the birth control pill, which virtually everyone would not bat an eye at. But those who know, know that the birth control pill is an abortifacent.
00:55:54.380Yes. So would that still demand that you don't vote for him? Like where along the line of explicit approval of abortion to implicit approval of abortion through a birth control pill? Do you say, okay, he can get my vote? I would encourage people to think through that question because if you do and you say, well, he would just never get my vote. Only someone that thinks just like me would get my vote.
00:56:21.060then I think you are running the risk of being an ideologue. And ideologues are unhelpful
00:56:25.800politically. Amen. Even at your local level, if you start to take that mindset into local
00:56:30.080elections, it will be actively adversarial to the end that you're trying to achieve.
00:56:36.000So I would just. Yep. No, that's good. So to get back to what we were saying earlier,
00:56:39.640you said, Ben, that, um, that you believe that, uh, number one, it is not morally equivalent,
00:56:45.320to not vote at all or to vote third party versus voting for biden so we would say voting for biden
00:56:52.660would be a sin um yes and and and here's the thing just to clear that up because i you know
00:56:57.540to play the devil's advocate they would say why why is it a sin to vote for a democrat because
00:57:01.700it's always been said that the reason why it's a sin to vote for a democrat is because they're
00:57:05.720pro-abortion but if the republican you know counterpart is for all intents and purposes
00:57:10.960pro-abortion also, then why is it not a sin to vote for him? And I would say, well, I'm glad you
00:57:14.940asked that. That's something that needs to be cleaned up, just like the pragmatism thing
00:57:18.360earlier. Pragmatism is bad as it pertains to the regular principle of worship on the Lord's day
00:57:22.240and clear prescriptions in scripture for worshiping in spirit and in truth, not according to the
00:57:27.100inventions or devices or preferences of men, but what God has written down in holy writ. Pragmatism
00:57:33.040in that category is sinful. It's not just less than ideal, it's actually sinful and wrong. However,
00:57:39.140we shouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater pragmatism in every sphere of human life is not
00:57:43.460inherently evil it is good to be pragmatic and shrewd and strategic and other realms including
00:57:49.460especially politics so that's something needs to be cleared up well here's another one that needs
00:57:53.900to be cleared up because if you're saying it's a sin to vote for democrats because they're pro
00:57:57.860abortion we do need to add some clarifications to that it's a sin to vote for biden in this
00:58:04.520upcoming 2024 federal election because he's the most evil and unjust candidate yes so so it's a
00:58:13.620sin to vote for the worst uh it is a sin to use your vote to help ensure that the most evil possible
00:58:21.180actually occurs yeah because here's that that's a sin right like you're not voting you're not
00:58:27.320when you cast a vote in a federal election especially you're not saying my vote is an
00:58:32.300is an explicit approval of everything about that particular candidate right what you're saying is
00:58:37.200my vote is an expression that says i want this place to look more like he wants it to look
00:58:41.640and biden is worse right it is less it is less beautiful and good and true and it's a sin to
00:58:49.880vote for the worst candidate the the thing like to vote for him would be like you know someone to
00:58:55.600someone breaking into your house and they say hey i can either kill you with a gun or i can just0.97
00:59:01.720threaten you with a knife and you say, I'll take the gun, please. Both are bad, but the gun is0.98
00:59:07.060really stupid. You'd be an idiot to do that. Right. Yep. Amen. And if there is a wife and1.00
00:59:14.180kids in the house, and so you're not just jeopardizing your own life, but also the life0.99
00:59:17.140of your family, then not only are you foolish, but you're actually in sin. That choice is so0.99
00:59:21.740foolish and so harmful to others, not only yourself, that you're actually sinning against0.99
00:59:25.220those that you have been commissioned by God to love and cherish and protect.0.99
01:07:18.120uh in uh during the season heading towards the presidential election where the people got to
01:07:24.180choose the candidates aka a primary uh what did he do he picked a better man to back than donald
01:07:30.960trump yep that's what he did now that that's over and he gave it everything he had i mean
01:07:37.020steve days you know for better or for worse you know he pushed desantis right and at times you
01:07:42.820know it was a little bit insufferable and then you know but others but i saw what he was doing
01:07:46.360and I appreciate it. That was a Christian instinct. That was a Christian instinct. And I0.98
01:07:51.280really, I love that about our brother in Christ, Steve Dace. And so he said, no, you know, I don't
01:07:57.800hate Trump. I'm not a never Trumper. I, you know, I appreciate what God has used him to do, you know,
01:08:02.640and appointing Supreme Court justices and overturning Roe and all these things. I don't
01:08:07.680have, you know, I don't have a vendetta against Trump, but I do believe that DeSantis is a better
01:08:12.260man. I think he's more moral. I think he has better policies. I think he's proven himself.
01:08:16.800Trump was really good for his first three years, but his fourth year kind of sucked.
01:08:20.420DeSantis, when Trump was folding on some things, he didn't fire Fauci. You know, he's bragging
01:08:24.600about warp speed operation and, you know, vaccines to his own detriment against his base. I mean,
01:08:29.740just, you know, really missing that thread, you know, but DeSantis did the opposite. You know,
01:08:34.400he, you know, he opened up, you know, the state of Florida and blah, blah, blah, and, you know,
01:08:37.940was against the mask, you know, and all this kind of stuff. I mean, he's saying DeSantis is a better
01:08:41.940man, better policies, better action, better proof in the pudding in terms of how he's actually
01:08:47.600legislated, how he's governed, and better morals. You know, he's not an adulterer, you know, as far
01:08:53.560as we know, and these kinds of things. So DeSantis is a better man. I'm a Christian. Vote for DeSantis.
01:08:58.700And he said, vote for DeSantis. Vote for DeSantis. And he said it again and again and again and again
01:09:02.780for almost a year. And then we moved past, right, being faithful with the times we've been given,
01:09:07.520then we moved past that time and then we were all of a sudden in in the next leg of the race
01:09:14.740where it had been determined for us whether we like it or not uh that DeSantis will not be
01:09:20.020president at least not now you've got two choices and the moment that happened Steve Day said all
01:09:25.480right that's a bummer and I'm grieving over this loss I know you guys are bummed too all right so
01:09:30.660get out there and vote for Trump yeah that is Christian that it's so simple it's really this
01:09:37.240is not rocket science, rocket surgery. But it's so simple. But that, I love that. That is right.
01:09:44.260So that was him in the Deuteronomy 18 in Acts chapter 6 phase, where the people actually get
01:09:49.880to bring, according to the qualifications laid out by Moses or laid out by the apostles in the
01:09:54.360church of Jerusalem, aka primaries in our American system, he said, let's bring men who actually fit
01:10:01.020God's standard. Yes. Right? And then the second we move past that, and that's no longer an option,
01:10:07.240And we, and we don't get to be ideologues doing theology in a vacuum, but we have to do it in a certain place in time within the providence and circumstances that God lays out. Then he said, okay, so now let's do the most possible righteousness we can with the circumstances that we've been given, AKA vote for Trump.
01:10:21.800Yeah, there's four points that I'd want to make to reinforce that. One, really simple, the political realm is the realm of the possible, not the ideal. It's the realm of potential. And it's important to remember that you can't have the same level of idealism that you have, say, with a church officer that you do with a political leader.
01:10:43.900He ought to be a moral man, an upright man, a statesman. But at the same time, you also have to realize that the political is the realm of the potential, the probable, the possible, not the certain, not the ideal, not the already proven case file of work.
01:11:40.380But then when we switch to more federal level, that changes and it does become the inverse.
01:11:46.460And so if you try to, if you try to approach it in the same way that you approach the local
01:11:52.040level, it's, you're going to run into brick wall after brick wall because it's different.
01:11:56.540And one of the ways in which it's different, this is the third thing, is that in Deuteronomy 18 and then implicitly in Acts 6 as well, there could have been, and maybe was, we don't know, a scenario wherein the people presented a man and the apostles said, not him.
01:12:15.300Yep. They have the power to say, no, you're going to have to just pick somebody else for whatever reason. Okay, we can't do that at the federal level. Unless it's this theoretical case in which for a presidential election, nobody votes. But even then, the Electoral College would probably still just pick somebody.
01:12:34.760um we don't get a veto we don't have we don't say uh not him not him either you're gonna have
01:12:43.260to just bring us two different candidates that's not an option right and so it it behooves us to
01:12:48.660pick one whichever one is less bad and then the fourth thing because one of them will as surely
01:12:54.820as the sun will rise tomorrow one of those two guys will be president in 20 yes 25 yes yes unless
01:13:02.400the only choice we get we we had opportunities earlier yep in god's providence it didn't work
01:13:09.000out he does all things well at this point we only have two choices um we don't have the third choice
01:13:16.000of neither we only have two choices one of these guys will be president so then the question is
01:13:21.380for our wives our children and our neighbors is one choice better than the other and if so
01:13:27.800then the commandment to love our neighbors behooves us to vote for that guy who is not
01:13:33.520quite as evil as the other. I was about to say the, the fourth point is the love your neighbor
01:13:40.040aspect of this neighbor, including your, no, no, you're fine. Uh, it's really helpful. Your
01:13:44.960neighboring, you know, your children at the top level, your, your wife and children, and then
01:13:49.220the people that live right next to you. And then people further out, you know, proximity really
01:13:53.460does bear on how you ought to prioritize which neighbors you love in which way amen but that
01:13:58.460just for the record the good samaritan because people are well he was a samaritan they weren't
01:14:02.460you know they weren't the same ethnicity or they weren't the same religion or they weren't you know
01:14:05.620whatever nationality uh no no no that that is not only does that um does that not uh debunk um uh
01:14:13.720the argument of of you know an order of affections uh rippling out a triage of neighbors um but it
01:14:21.460actually reinforces it. The reason why it was imperative that the Samaritan helped that man
01:14:27.060was because of his proximity. It wasn't proximity in the metaphorical light of being the same
01:14:33.300skin pigment, you know, color or being the same nationality. It was the literal geographic
01:14:39.100proximity. Why is the good Samaritan obligated to help this man who's bleeding out and dying?
01:14:45.940Because he's there. He's right next to, he's literally in his proximity. He's right next to
01:14:50.860Well, likewise, at a national level, there is an order of affection.
01:14:55.080So it's like, well, love your neighbor.
01:16:17.120And I, we're not talking about, oh, because you're sinister and you're selfish and you show favoritism and, you know, because of your fallenness, because you're a sinner.0.97
01:16:24.860I'm talking even in a best case scenario, like, like, AKA Jesus, right?0.93
01:16:29.620Who was full of the Holy Spirit, impeccable, without sin, all these kinds of fulfilling all righteousness, even in the case of Jesus, he did, you know, Joseph Smith, you know, Mormon's hardest hit.
01:16:41.720But Jesus, for instance, did not go over to the Americas and heal all the sick Indians and help them, you know, to kick their peyote, drug addiction.
01:16:52.780Think of the Canaanite woman, you know, well, Lord, even the dogs eat the crumbs off the kids' table.0.95
01:17:04.720And then she says that, and of course, it's her faith that, you know, that then saves her.
01:17:08.740But the thing is, Jesus wasn't wrong to say that at first.
01:17:11.720Jesus, he wasn't wrong to say, yeah, he wasn't wrong to say, actually, I'm not here for you.
01:17:16.580I'm here for my people. I've come to the lost sheep of Israel.
01:17:19.920Exactly. In saving them, I'll fulfill the promise to Abraham. You will be blessed.0.76
01:17:23.480And here's proof. Your faith has made you well. Amen. Amen.
01:17:26.620But one example is so Paul tells us to prioritize the people within the kingdom of God with our charity and our love and our affection.
01:17:36.480Galatians, prioritize the household of faith.
01:17:38.480And then the overflow of that is things outside the church.0.78
01:17:42.400So one practical example is I care much more about the well-being of Joel's family than about the immigrants coming over illegally through the border.0.81
01:17:50.460I would be failing to properly order my loves if I thought, no, they're probably just hurting.
01:17:56.820They need some more economic opportunity.
01:17:58.740I doubt they're all criminals and racists.
01:18:05.300That would be a complete disordering of loves.
01:18:07.860And so I want to tie this back to kind of where I was going with the love of neighbor thing in regards to this general election. And that is that it's not a matter of me saying that the abolitionist who, because of his conscience, isn't going to vote for one of the candidates, isn't loving his neighbor. That's not what I'm saying.
01:18:25.100I believe that they are loving their neighbor by using their lack of a vote to send a message
01:18:32.640to the political sphere that they have to do better.
01:18:54.660What I do think is that we have to take that stance from them and say, okay, fair enough. But that's not the only way to love your neighbor. You could also love your neighbor by voting for one of the candidates, or you could hate your neighbor by voting for one of the candidates.
01:19:08.940And so it's not so much a matter of, well, you're not loving your neighbor and I am. It's more a matter of understanding the times and figuring out which thing is more loving to your neighbor, including, again, your wife and kids, the person that lives next to you, literally, the people in your neighborhood, your city, your state, your nation, and then everything else outside of that.
01:19:31.360And so I just want people to understand that we're talking about understanding the times and matters of wisdom here. And you do have to do some mental calculus and figure out, okay, if I'm using ones and zeros, is it more loving to my neighbor to vote for Trump or is it more loving to my neighbor to not vote at all, hoping that it'll send a message to the GOP to do better?
01:19:51.380um that's the question that you have to ask yourself and eventually answer before it comes
01:19:56.220time to vote amen yep that's yeah that frames it perfectly that is the question and you and i
01:20:02.180obviously have a particular answer our answer is that we think that voting for trump is more loving
01:20:08.280um that whatever message you you think you're getting across to the gop even in the best
01:20:13.540best case scenario even if that message does get across um you've just now like let's just play it
01:20:20.520you've just now signaled to the gop um you must do better um you have to produce for us a better
01:20:26.920candidate so in 2028 uh we we need to see desantis or whoever on the ticket for the general election
01:20:33.560and uh and not someone like trump okay uh but by sending that message biden got elected and so now
01:20:42.120you've got a better candidate but you're going up against potentially 20 million more democrat voters
01:20:46.920right so you've you've you've spent the asset of time uh in order to send that message right now0.55
01:20:54.920and the thing is it is a message that has to be sent like the gop simply does have to do better
01:20:59.360they suck but so here's the question so exactly i love how you just said so you forfeited time
01:21:04.560in order for quality so so uh and and even to be fair the potential of quality because you0.97
01:21:10.440actually don't know if that message is going to work um so you're so you're forfeiting time
01:21:15.100for sure that one is definitive so you are giving up four years to maybe get a better quality
01:21:21.660candidate four years from now so you're saying um i will i will forfeit um these these four years
01:21:28.060for uh 25 through you know 28 for a better 29 through 32 um and uh but the problem is uh number
01:21:37.380one you don't actually have it guaranteed that your message will be heard and you'll get a better
01:21:41.600candidate and then number two you just lowered significantly and i would argue significantly
01:21:47.280because it's like oh well you know 20 million like uh that that's ridiculous you're being
01:21:51.720hyperbolic no no no it's it is um the lowest numbers are nine million and that's not even
01:21:56.940biden's full term just in the first three years of his term nine million three million being legal
01:22:01.780give or take and six million being illegal those are the lowest numbers there's a ton that haven't
01:22:06.560been tracked the highest numbers go all the way up to potentially 20 million and then you're like
01:22:10.660yeah but you keep talking about it being voting and they don't get to vote they are pushing
01:22:14.720legislation right now successfully um where you don't have to prove citizenship to vote yeah the
01:22:21.180save act just got denied yeah like this is a this is a really real threat and there's another so it
01:22:27.800really is potentially 20 million if not even more and uh it really is voters shouldn't be but it is
01:22:36.160this is a an opportune election for the gop i'm not going to say that you don't you know don't
01:22:43.360let perfect be the enemy of good because i don't think trump is a good person right uh but he's
01:22:48.200certainly less bad than biden so don't let perfect the enemy of less bad maybe is what i'd say
01:22:52.900but then even even you know tying more of these factors together okay uh biden has said he is
01:22:59.560going to run. And he is the candidate for the Democratic Party, even after his hilarious
01:23:06.740debate against Trump, wherein he proved himself to be utterly inept. And even CNN was scrambling0.91
01:23:13.360to try to find a way to spin it. And finally, they just gave up and said, oh, man, maybe we
01:23:16.980just need to find a better candidate. That means that we have an especially good opportunity
01:23:22.980to get a republican president now so if we spend the asset of time right now to send that message
01:23:30.740i understand that's a valid strategy but i just don't think that it actually works with what's
01:23:35.560happening you know boots on the ground because in four years biden can't run again and so uh you
01:23:42.020the democrats are going to get to put forward the person that they want yes and whoever
01:23:48.000yeah like that means that you have uh given four years for more moral degeneracy in the u.s0.79
01:23:55.040at a more rapid rate which i understand not saying the gop would would be not morally degenerate but0.77
01:24:00.980it's less rapid and so people are going to be more enthralled with the idea of this moral
01:24:05.300degeneracy and this sin and then the democrats are going to be able to put forward the candidate
01:24:09.160that they really really really want which is going to be a person that's probably worse than
01:24:13.200biden in almost every measurable way and so if the gop receives that message from you and they do
01:24:18.640what they ought to do which is give you a better candidate people aren't gonna like him
01:24:23.740because people will be more morally degenerate than they are now right this is the way that
01:24:29.580covenant works if your covenant head in your nation is wicked then the people are going to
01:24:34.820be more wicked that's right you get josiah's king and you get a better people that follow0.61
01:24:38.860you get a wicked king uh and you get a worse people that follow and so by having trump you
01:24:44.320slow and not we're not sitting here saying trump is virtuous but you slow uh the degeneracy that
01:24:50.940that progression of further degeneracy among the american populace um so that uh a better candidate
01:24:57.440better than trump is more palatable to the people in 2028 so here's the last thing i was going to0.86
01:25:03.420say, here's an option that I think is the correct option that Christians, and I think it falls0.51
01:25:09.960well within the boundaries of you still hold firmly your abolitionist card. We started this0.99
01:25:16.340going, you know, step one, step two, step two. Here's what I would say is you want to send a
01:25:21.580message to the GOP and to Trump. If he gets elected, you want, you know, your president
01:25:28.040to get the message of not just give us someone better than Trump four years from now, but also
01:25:32.660trump you right now be better so here's what i would suggest is you're saying you want to send
01:25:38.300a message to the gop um but also what we're advocating for ben and i is saying but you also
01:25:43.480uh want um you want the best four years now that you can get so that that message with the gop if
01:25:50.900they do listen to it um you actually have a chance with the populace of having a a a moral enough
01:26:00.420people and also just enough voters and not 20 million more democrat voters to where that better
01:26:05.660candidate the gop you know hypothetically puts forward could actually win so all that being said
01:26:10.720you need to send a message but you also need to win this election you need to win this election
01:26:16.900and send a message for next election so yeah so what i would suggest is why not just do that
01:26:21.840why not vote for trump to win this one and then um give him your vote and don't give him
01:26:30.560your endorsement do what me and all these other faithful christians are doing who are abolitionists
01:26:37.060who who completely despise the second victim narrative who want equal weights equal measures
01:26:42.680equal protection all these kinds of things think brent leatherwood is is unregenerate and going to
01:26:47.520hell and wicked all these kinds of things why don't you do what we're doing here's what we're
01:26:51.140doing we're going to vote for trump and we're going to spend starting right now i've already
01:26:55.840been doing it for months but we will spend the next four years we'll give him our vote we will
01:27:00.720pray that he gets office and we'll spend four years saying mr president repent of your sin
01:27:06.580protect the unborn don't you dare do that that's wicked donald trump do not do that repent believe
01:27:14.000upon the lord jesus christ legislate righteously enforce righteous laws you're building a wall
01:27:20.460you're protecting our border thank god also don't be a murderer of babies in the womb like why don't
01:27:26.840you do that why why do you have to send the message in in in by not not voting why don't
01:27:33.200you send the message by literally just saying the message but also ensuring that um that we don't
01:27:39.420get 20 million pro-abortion voters over the next four years by by throwing your vote into the wind
01:28:17.760I think that it's shrewd. And I think that it is still innocent as well. And part of the reason that we're zealous about this at all, and the passion and the way that we're talking, is because we, again, just to reiterate, recognize the value in the good work that abolitionists do in the political sphere.
01:28:39.140And so the asset that would be there if we had the most committed, dedicated abolitionists, we're like, God made them. And when he made them, he's like, that's what you're for. You are for defending the rights of the unborn. You are for defending the life of the unborn.
01:28:58.080If we could have those guys, and I know that they'll do this if Trump wins, they'll do all of that. But if they could also make it so that they cast their vote for a man that will maybe, maybe be more likely to hear it, I think that would be a huge value.
01:29:14.780And so that's part of why this is even important to address, recognizing that there's absolutely no anathematizing going on whatsoever. There's no accusations of sin going on whatsoever. It's more of a pleading to say, let's do this and let's do it arm in arm and give them everything you got so that they actually do hear your message strongly.
01:29:35.820and it's unavoidable because it is like Trump's life policy and the GOP's life policy right now
01:29:42.280is unacceptable. It is unacceptable, but it's less unacceptable than the Democrats.
01:29:48.120And maybe there's a chance that we could hold the line and actually have them backtrack and
01:29:53.500repent for it. The Democrats are given over. They're Romans warning down to the very, very
01:29:57.900bottom. The GOP, maybe they are. I'm not God, but maybe they aren't. But less than the Democrats.
01:30:04.040yes yep so i'm i'm with you and then and then that's just all just and then there that's just
01:30:09.660on life which is a big massive issue and i would argue the biggest but that is one issue and there
01:30:14.840are other issues and the gop is handedly better on all the other ones economy yes um like i want
01:30:20.780my i want i love my neighbors i'd like them to not be poor right immigration all these all these
01:30:25.860other things uh here's another one foreign policy um foreign affairs uh you love your neighbors
01:30:31.040here's something that would be unloving towards your neighbors world war three right or even if
01:30:37.360not world war three more money going to the ukraine that's incredibly unloving to your0.61
01:30:42.260billions of dollars to ukraine and israel um yeah so yeah exactly keeping your tax dollars0.73
01:30:48.540not um love your neighbor it means uh is if you have a say in the matter using your say to make
01:30:54.360sure that your neighbor is not robbed or robbed less you know like so all those kinds of things