Pastor A.D. Robles joins Pastor Joel Webin to discuss the need for a top-down revival, rather than a grassroots one. Pastor Webin and Pastor Robles discuss the role of the church and elite theory in society, and why we should work toward revival one regenerate heart at a time.
00:00:00.000All right, welcome to another episode of Theology Applied. I'm your host, Pastor Joel Webin with
00:00:03.780Right Response Ministries. In this episode, I am privileged to welcome back to the show
00:00:08.260a regular guest, A.D. Robles. We're going to be talking about top-down revival rather than just
00:00:15.300grassroots bottom-up. We want to work towards revival one regenerate heart at a time. But
00:00:20.700if we look historically and we look biblically, God often uses leaders, a few leaders, to shape
00:00:28.380the whole populace. This is what God has done. We should not merely ask the question what God
00:00:34.000can do. We should ask the question, what does God do? That's the kind of conversation that we're
00:00:39.820having in this episode. We're also in light of that talking a lot about elite theory. What is
00:00:44.840elite theory? How does that work? How do a few individuals for good or for evil shape an entire
00:00:53.120society, because it does happen. And we need to be aware of that theory, that system, and who some
00:00:59.540of these people are. Tune in now. Applying God's word to every aspect of life. This is Theology
00:01:06.620Applied. All right. Welcome to another episode of Theology Applied. I am your host, Pastor Joel
00:01:15.800Webin with Right Response Ministries. And today I have joining me for the 1,457th time,
00:01:24.540A.D. Robles. He is a regular on the show. He might as well be a co-host. A.D., thanks for
00:01:29.080coming on. I'm glad to be here. It's awesome. Thanks for inviting me. Absolutely. All right.
00:01:34.940So what we wanted to talk about, we're just going to really keep this conversation just
00:01:38.940kind of organic, you know, and just kind of where you guys get to be a fly on the wall and hear
00:01:44.600kind of the conversation that ad and i would just have if we were talking on the phone we want to
00:01:48.620talk about um basically uh how did we get to this place how did things get so bad um is you know if
00:01:55.760the nation's going to change positively if we're going to have a revival or reformation or any of
00:02:00.180those things is it going to be grassroots is it going to be bottom up or is it going to be top
00:02:04.020down a lot a lot of you know guys within you know evangelicalism and even the reformed tribe i would
00:02:10.160argue, especially within Reformed evangelicalism, sometimes they behave and speak as though there's
00:02:17.100only one way to change a culture, society, a nation, and that's bottom up. Basically,
00:02:24.060it has to be an organic preaching of the gospel through the sphere of the church,
00:02:29.560not the state, not political rulers or media or institutions or influential people in other
00:02:36.100areas of life. Now it's got to be only the church, gospel preachers, and that the Holy Spirit has to
00:02:42.220move in such a way that the gospel preaching is efficacious to the point where you have
00:02:47.040regenerate hearts that account for 50% of the population plus one so that you can then win
00:02:52.960your democratic elections and put better men in office. And just for the record, I'm not
00:02:59.240against that. And for all practical purposes, that's what I'm praying towards. That's what
00:03:05.780I'm working towards as a local pastor, as a Christian man, as a father, as a husband in my
00:03:10.740day-to-day life, I'm working towards doing the work of an evangelist, hoping to see people come
00:03:15.600to faith in Jesus Christ through the preaching of the gospel and the work of the spirit, and that
00:03:19.260we would have more and more Christians. And that if we have more salt and light, that that would
00:03:22.860make a difference in our world. Amen. Yes. And amen. So that's true. I just don't think it's
00:03:27.420the whole truth. I think that there's also not just bottom up revival, if I could coin that
00:03:32.380phrase. But I do think that biblically speaking and historically speaking throughout this gospel
00:03:37.600age, these past 2000 years of church history, I would argue that bottom-up revival is legitimate
00:03:43.240and it's what we should pray towards. But top-down revival seems to be not only possible,
00:03:50.460but it seems to actually be the more common occurrence is that Israel sucks. And it's not0.99
00:03:58.320just that Israel, through the preaching of the priests, that 50% of the population plus one
00:04:03.480become regenerate, and then they use their democratic vote to switch kings. No, it's
00:04:10.200Israel sucks. The king sucks. God kills that king. He puts Josiah in his place. The people1.00
00:04:17.360aren't righteous, but Josiah says, well, even if you're not righteous on the inside,
00:04:21.440in a true regenerate sense, you're going to behave as though you're righteous, whether you like it or0.98
00:04:26.100not, because I'm going to kill you if you practice idolatry, and I'm going to rip down the high0.99
00:04:30.720places, and we will worship Yahweh. And then the law of the Lord begins to function in that0.99
00:04:37.060tutoring sense. The law doesn't regenerate anyone, but it does begin as it's executed by the king in
00:04:44.040a righteous way. The law begins to shape the consciences of men and paint a more conducive
00:04:50.620context and backdrop for real preaching of the Messiah. And then people's hearts over time do
00:04:59.500change and Israel improves. What do you think, AD? Is that crazy? Well, I mean, I think it's,
00:05:07.520sometimes it's hard for me to put myself back when I believed essentially this kind of bottom up,
00:05:12.580you know, the people change and they get better rulers and stuff like that. It's hard for me to
00:05:16.360put my mind back in that space because when you read the bible um that is not the presentation
00:05:23.540that we get not to say that that can't happen and that shouldn't happen and that's not a way
00:05:27.600that things change but in the bible especially like the book of kings right you get this this
00:05:32.220list of of the kings and you get a short couple paragraphs about what they do whether they were
00:05:37.060good or bad and and it's it's like you get the king and then the people follow what the king is
00:05:43.940doing each and every time whether it's a good king or a bad king right and and and that is what's
00:05:49.980presented to us right and so it it once once you see that and you recognize that it's hard to put
00:05:58.540your mind back in the in the spot where that can't happen that's not crazy at all it makes perfect
00:06:02.980sense that when king asa comes uh and says okay well we're getting rid of the the the the male0.99
00:06:08.940prostitutes or the the sodomites we're going to get rid of them all we're going to cut down the0.99
00:06:13.080ashera poles we're going to do all these things it makes sense that the people are like well i mean0.99
00:06:18.580i'm sure some of them still wanted to do that stuff but they didn't do it as much as they used
00:06:23.420to makes perfect sense because there were no ashera poles anymore there were no sodomites
00:06:28.160anymore so like it like it it's it's not crazy but it's it's what it's wild maybe we can talk
00:06:36.800a little bit about why this became sort of like a foreign concept but this is the way the bible
00:06:41.820presents this you know what i mean let's let's talk about that what do you think like because
00:06:47.260it really is foreign our brains are just i don't know we've been hardwired as kind of
00:06:52.860modern western you know democracy people uh you know americans westerners and yeah so we just we
00:07:02.200read our presuppositions into the bible and we really think it's there it's funny i saw somebody
00:07:07.980or what one of our, our mutuals offline was saying, he said, it's funny that the staunch
00:07:15.760cessationists, I think of like the John MacArthur camp and I'm a cessationist. So are you, you know,
00:07:21.040but guys who like, you know, they, they, the kind of guys who would not just be cessationists,
00:07:25.440but would host, you know, a cessationist conference annually, you know, those kinds of
00:07:29.480guys. It's funny that they, they believe there's no new revelation that had ended in the first
00:07:33.820century with the dying of the apostles, except there was a window of the gift of prophecy and
00:07:40.600new revelation coming back into play in 1776, you know, or what is it? It's 1777, I think,
00:07:49.900you know, but basically with what I'm getting at is they almost, they don't say this, I'm being
00:07:56.160facetious, but they almost give off the impression that the constitution is actually infallible,
00:08:01.980that it's like inscripturated yeah there was even a man who put a video out that was titled
00:08:08.540something like um you know or described something like christian nationalists say that the
00:08:14.160constitution is dead this is dangerous and we're in troubling and concerning and here's my biblical
00:08:19.860response what could the biblical response be to that we're talking about like we're talking about
00:08:24.640a a a political system that was created and of course it drew from principles in scripture but
00:08:31.500the constitution itself what what would be the biblical response there like talk about reading
00:08:38.660your presuppositions into the bible the bible does not give us the u.s constitution there are
00:08:44.380it's it's there's a foundation there of course and of course we understand there's some principles0.88
00:08:48.140that were drawn from there but it's not it's it sounds so stupid to say but some people really
00:08:54.400do treat it as if it is a point of orthodoxy it's a point of faithfulness and if you're not
00:08:59.580100% pro-constitution because that's what people are saying you know if if someone says the
00:09:04.900constitution is dead that must mean they're not being faithful to the constitution and it becomes
00:09:08.640almost a point of christian orthodoxy right where it's like well that's dangerous biblically how
00:09:12.680could that possibly be the case i'm pro-constitution so that doesn't even fit most of the people that
00:09:17.040are in this discussion but even if you did say yeah i don't know about that constitution it's not
00:09:20.960not the greatest it's not a point of of piety it doesn't make any sense to make it so right
00:09:27.660And that's not even what guys are saying. I don't hear anyone saying, I don't like the Constitution.
00:09:33.420What they're saying is not prescriptive. We should overthrow the Constitution. They're saying in a descriptive sense, they're not saying the Constitution is bad. They're saying the Constitution is dead. And there is a massive difference between those two statements.
00:09:46.060It's not the constitution is bad. It's that the constitution in many regards is a beautiful,
00:09:51.800wonderful biblical document in many regards, biblical principles baked throughout the whole
00:09:57.480pie. The problem is that our nation doesn't abide by it. It's like, well, you guys want to overthrow
00:10:04.240the constitution. No, we don't. It has been overthrown for a very long time. How did the
00:10:09.200constitution work out for you in 2020 when they said churches couldn't gather, right? It protected
00:10:13.580us right our rights were right oh wait no no they weren't what about when uh they mandated that our
00:10:18.440military um uh be injected with a foreign substance with no long-term testing um the
00:10:25.160constitution uh it worked for them right no no it did not um the constitution is great the problem
00:10:31.720is we're not saying constitution bad we're saying constitution dead and there is a massive difference
00:10:37.920between those two statements yeah there's a huge there's a huge difference between the two statements
00:10:43.320obviously and that's kind of what i was saying that that doesn't apply to me and it doesn't
00:10:47.660apply to hardly anyone um to say that the constitution's bad it might apply to someone
00:10:52.940even if it did apply to someone it's still not a point of piety like it doesn't even matter like
00:10:57.580we're not even saying that but even if we were it doesn't even matter as far as christian piety is
00:11:02.900concerned right but i think you're right though to say and i was going to say this um before i forget
00:11:08.060that i think the reason why we read the book of kings and we read other parts of scripture like
00:11:14.260even even pagan nations too like like uh you know nineveh repents right from the top to the bottom
00:11:20.880and it started but but it started with the king repenting and commanding certain things and so i
00:11:27.240and and all the people all the pagans there said i guess we're doing this now and so they all did
00:11:31.980it too so we get presented this again and again and again god blesses the people with a certain
00:11:38.480ruler a certain you know king you know whatever and the people follow his lead this is what we're
00:11:45.320presented the reason why we decode that into meaning something different or just maybe just
00:11:50.420disregarding it is because of how we were trained as americans like as far as america when i was a
00:11:56.320kid um i was taught essentially that a king is the worst possible kind of ruler like that's what you
00:12:03.840want to avoid at all costs that's like the antithesis of good political leadership it's
00:12:09.280the antithesis so that's what i was taught and a lot of kings are bad right so it's easy to make
00:12:15.000that case if you kind of cherry pick examples and stuff like that um and you can even do that
00:12:20.540with the bible too you know i've even heard ron paul the libertarian prince he uh he used the bible
00:12:26.400once in and to talk about how kings would be bad for people and there's part that's true when you
00:12:31.760have a bad king that's very true there's a lot of negative things that come with that so it's easy
00:12:35.260to make that case but it's not really it's not that simple it's not really as as as easy as that
00:12:41.180there's a lot more to that story than meets the eye and so as americans who grew up i had civics
00:12:46.760class just like everybody else i grew up in in new england i was taught you know the constitution
00:12:51.560was the greatest thing ever there was no way to improve it i like i i was taught all these things
00:12:56.740um and i think that's why when i read the book of kings i don't notice how reforms are made
00:13:04.520you know what i mean i think maybe even the first time i noticed this was when i read a translation
00:13:08.980that called them king asa's reforms and that word reforms kind of triggered something in me
00:13:14.500and it's like you know he's making these good reforms by edict he's just saying i'm just doing
00:13:20.520these things this is what's happening he didn't ask the people hey let's have a referendum on
00:13:25.500this do you guys want to take the asher polls down or not like he just made these reforms and
00:13:29.980they were all objectively good reforms and he just did it and he just did it and the people followed
00:13:35.380and he probably had to do enforcement you know he probably used his power to enforce these things
00:13:40.860And we see examples of that in scripture, too. You know, we see Nehemiah who makes reforms as well, but he also like uses his authority and his power to force the people to change that don't want to change, makes examples of people.
00:13:54.520So like we read that stuff. But but I think sometimes our American like civics training kind of overrides that a little bit sometimes. And that's why you get so many people that they freak out. They fly off the handle when you say, oh, yeah, you know, maybe a Protestant Franco wouldn't be so bad. Maybe a good version of of a strong leader wouldn't be so bad.
00:14:15.920and all they hear is oh you want a dictator you want you want uh chairman mao you want adolf
00:14:21.700hitler that's what you want that's what they hear right and it's like well i didn't say that but
00:14:26.100i think it's i think it's like an un on inability to sort of think think like in a in a reflective
00:14:34.160way about you know maybe the training i got in you know 10th grade civics class wasn't the end
00:14:39.840all be all of everything. Right. Yeah. I think it's an inability to, um, to read the Bible
00:14:45.520without predisposed presuppositions and biases as a modern Westerner. It's that, but I think it's
00:14:53.060also an inability to, um, not just to read the Bible without bias, uh, but to read the room
00:14:59.640without bias. Um, a lot of people, part of the reason why it sounds extreme, because that's
00:15:04.820ultimately what they're saying. They're saying it seems a bit extreme. That seems extreme. Um,
00:15:09.200Well, the only reason it seems extreme is if you think that an American Caesar type
00:15:16.720person rising through the ranks, and again, not even prescribing it, but just describing
00:15:22.100that and articulating to say, this would have excesses and objective abuses.
00:15:28.480There would be things that were problems, but overall, on the whole, the Lord and his
00:15:33.840sovereignty could use this without us advocating for it or trying to make it happen.
00:15:38.960but God could make this happen. And it could be overall, in a general sense, a positive thing.
00:15:44.440If you think that's extreme, to call that extreme is really only happens one way. And it's by not
00:15:52.680recognizing that what we currently have is extreme. You think that alteration is extreme
00:15:58.680because you don't recognize how extreme the current status quo is. And what I'm saying by
00:16:04.820that is, um, a lot of people still don't know what time it is. They don't understand how many
00:16:10.360millions of human beings are being slaughtered. They don't understand, um, that we are as a
00:16:16.980nation exporting sodomy around the world. That's our, that's our greatest export. Our greatest
00:16:23.260export is perversion. That's, I mean, that's, you just, you don't understand, you don't understand
00:16:29.280how extreme thing you think that, that, that what we're describing is extreme because you don't
00:16:36.380realize that where we're currently sitting is extreme. Like if we did get some American Caesar
00:16:42.440type guy, and let's say he's not even regenerate, right? Like a, like a Cyrus figure that may have
00:16:47.280been saved, may have not been saved, you know, or Nebuchadnezzar. Let's say that he, he utilizes0.51
00:16:53.540Christian rhetoric, but he himself is not actually regenerate and a Christian himself.
00:16:59.560I think that's the most likely scenario, by the way, just so you know.
00:17:02.640And I think he would probably come from, you know, flyover country, right?
00:17:06.540Like Superman, you know, he grows up in Kansas, right?
00:17:09.420It's hard to get more American than that, you know?
00:17:11.220So he's some guy from Kansas or Oklahoma, you know, or Mississippi, and he rises through
00:17:16.100the ranks, you know, he was homeschooled probably, you know, by his Christian parents.0.83
00:17:20.300And he may not be a Christian himself, but he knows the Bible better than most people who are Christians, and he utilizes that language, and he says, here's the deal, we're going to clean up America.
00:17:32.220And by the time we get to this guy, whether it be a baron Trump or lots of different fun speculations, but by the time you get to him, the nation is so degenerate that the majority of people are basically just saying, all right, man, get us out of this mess, whatever it takes.
00:17:50.300And so he comes in and he starts cracking eggs to make an omelet.
00:17:54.960And I'm not saying that cracking eggs is righteous.
00:19:11.980We're just describing. Everyone who feels like what we're describing is extreme,
00:19:16.340the only way you can hold that view is if you put your head in the sand and refuse. And it is a
00:19:22.360deliberate, willful choice to refuse to see the extremities of our current position. I think that's
00:19:29.500silly. Right Response Ministries 2025 conference is a go. This is three days, full jam-packed
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00:20:06.840David Reese and yours truly, Pastor Joel Webin. Again, this is April 3rd, 4th, and 5th, 2025,
00:20:14.820and the early registration is open right now. This is the longest conference with the most
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00:20:43.800Yeah, it really is. I mean, it's it's it's so it's so preposterous when you take a step back and you see how far we've already come, how abusive our government already is, how how authoritarian it already is.
00:20:58.960Like there's just there's no like figurehead dictator here, but we're we are we have like a army of dictators in the various, you know, managerial government class.
00:21:10.080Like it's just it's so preposterous to to not recognize that for what it is and to and to not at least even be willing to have the conversation about possible ways out of that.
00:21:23.380And and and beyond, you know, you got to believe in the Constitution.
00:21:28.040You know what I mean? That's that is that's that's that's what we're saying by that's gone. Like that's that's not a workable way out of this. It isn't. So now we know that that's not a workable way out of it. We need to figure out what is the workable way out of it.
00:21:42.800And to your point about a non-Christian, you know, kind of authoritarian leader, I think that's the most likely scenario to happen because the amount of people out there that have the ability to do something like that, to sort of really, you know, make positive reform from the top down, the pool of candidates for something like that is not going to be mostly like regenerate Christians.0.55
00:22:10.200because regenerate christians have bought the lie that somehow power is antithetical to christ
00:22:14.780right in general they have they bought that lie you even had uh i saw somebody say something like1.00
00:22:20.840um a um a a christian caesar is just as stupid as saying you know gay christian like that that's1.00
00:22:30.320that's that's completely not correct but he feels totally justified saying it and he'll get a lot1.00
00:22:35.500of attaboys and amens because we've bought the lie in general that power is antithetical to
00:22:41.400christianity it's not the case so so so in the pool of candidates that are capable of doing
00:22:47.300something like this there's much more likely to be someone who has a christian background and who
00:22:52.100has who knows how to understand who knows how to use christian rhetoric and has christian morality
00:22:55.780and christian virtues that's not uh sadly that's not a legitimate hardcore christian because they
00:23:01.540haven't bought the bought the lie that power is antithetical to christianity they don't they
00:23:05.940don't have that yeah um i wish it was a christian guy yeah i wish i i hope so i mean that's what i'll
00:23:11.640pray for amen but the most likely scenario the at least the way i see it is that's not going to be
00:23:16.140what we get and that would be christian's fault because we took ourselves out of out of the
00:23:21.400running by it doesn't have to be that way by our pietism we we removed ourselves from a lot of
00:23:27.820those positions of power because power we determined was icky and uh that's really sad and
00:23:34.280it's it's it's very sad and and it doesn't have to be that way and today i put out a little video
00:23:39.420on twitter that uh was basically something like you know how do you talk to your friends about0.96
00:23:43.860these kinds of things you know especially when you got people that are saying stupid stuff like0.94
00:23:48.600you know power is antithetical to christianity and all this and to me like the easiest way to0.97
00:23:53.640understand this is to to break break it down to a micro level where you have kind of a micro
00:23:58.660dictatorship which is at your house right you know what i mean and i i gave an example like let's say
00:24:03.580you and your brother and your sister you know you all have kids and you you love each other you're
00:24:07.420all christians and you're all hanging out you're going on vacations together everything's great
00:24:11.900you know you have no problem sending your kids to your brother's house for a sleepover like
00:24:15.920everything's great and then let's say your sister she she decides to basically leave the faith you0.96
00:24:21.940She still says she's a Christian, but she's transing her kids, she's full LGBT, she's0.99
00:24:51.480And so as a father, as the as the dictator of the house, I'm no longer going to have my kids spend time with their cousin, you know, Sam, who used to be Samantha.
00:25:01.520You know what I mean? I'm no longer going to allow my kids to sleep over at my sister's house because I don't I this is not like I don't have to play by those rules anymore.
00:25:12.160You know what I mean? I actually do have authority that was given to me by God.
00:25:16.040I've acquired that authority. God gave it to me. So I have that authority.
00:25:20.580And so using that authority in these situations is a good and righteous thing, right?
00:32:09.840But I think, yeah, that's another American thing, too, because like, you know, when I when I again, when I was in civics class and then I went to college and became a libertarian for a little while, my politics was basically like, I just want to be left alone.
00:32:22.360And that's fine. But the thing is, though, that if you're in politics, that doesn't work. Right.
00:32:29.320So if you want your government to leave you alone, you actually do have to be active in politics all the time.
00:32:36.420Like it's, it's not enough to just kind of mind your own business as a politician, because
00:32:41.660there's people that don't want you to be left alone and they're going to be doing stuff.
00:32:46.340And so you have to constantly be, uh, using power, um, to good ends in order to get what
00:33:31.580what they want is second amendment rights, guns, land, and, and homos that, you know what I mean?0.99
00:33:40.000Like that's like, that, that's what it comes out to, right? They just, they just elected the,1.00
00:33:44.900the libertarian, just chose the libertarian candidate for the libertarian party and the
00:33:49.400dudes down for trans and kids, right? Because that is, to be fair, that is, that's a true0.97
00:33:55.620libertarian position. Libertarianism is not synonymous with morality. It's just synonymous
00:34:01.820with let me do whatever I want, which is not a moral position. We don't want just a population
00:34:08.200that gets to do whatever they want. We want a population that is being constantly pressed
00:34:12.980forward towards doing what God wants. We want virtue, and out of virtue will come true freedom.
00:34:18.420We don't want man's autonomy, a perverted sense of freedom, ultimate freedom, freedom to indulge in wickedness that will never lead to virtue.
00:34:31.520And that's something, you don't figure that out necessarily in your 20s, you know, at least me and you didn't, you know, but isn't it funny, like the older we get, like, I feel like, you know, you just start to see things differently, you know,
00:34:47.240and things that you thought were so right, you know, like libertarianism. I feel like everybody
00:34:52.980in their 20s, you know, had a libertarian phase. And now it's like, oh, that was dumb. Gosh, I was0.99
00:34:58.460dumb. You just grow up. So anyways, last thing I'll say is, or that we can say that I would1.00
00:35:05.880like us to talk about is elite theory, right? Speaking of things that you start to see different
00:35:09.960when you grow up. So we were talking offline a little bit about this, but for the longest time,
00:35:14.840this is how I thought. I thought politics is just downstream of culture. Culture is just downstream
00:35:19.880of religion, theology, faith. And so I thought, you know, it's because, you know, because the
00:35:26.820church has compromised in America for decades and we've watered down preaching and doctrine and
00:35:33.720faith, religion, because of that, the culture has degraded. So we've got that produced a worse
00:35:38.960culture, and then a worse culture gave rise to worse politicians and worse politics. So
00:35:45.860religion, as we compromise there, we got a worse culture that produced worse politics. And I want1.00
00:35:51.320to be clear, I think that that is true. But what's changed for me is I've realized that that is not
00:35:56.500the whole truth. There is a truth to that. That system does happen. That's a reality. But then
00:36:02.700what I started realizing is this. At the same time, there's another truth, and both are true.
00:36:07.920there's also elites that are pushing certain agendas. So for instance, just think of this
00:36:15.240as it pertains to culture and entertainment, media, Hollywood. Was it really, was it really
00:36:22.240that people in the 1950s, right? Just the general populace, the majority of the population in the
00:36:28.5401950s, that they just started advocating and saying, you know what? We just want gay sex0.99
00:36:36.320in movies. We just, we want it, give it to us, Hollywood, you know, and Hollywood wasn't going1.00
00:36:40.380to give it to them, you know, but the culture degraded. And then the politics, the leaders,
00:36:45.340the rulers, the elites, you know, in the political realm and in the entertainment realm, then they1.00
00:36:50.360caved and said, all right, here's your gay sex. You know, we'll just, we'll start putting that0.99
00:36:54.160in movies or, right. Or let's, let's just entertain. I know it's, it's another crazy
00:36:59.400thought here, but, or was it that there were actually elites in Hollywood that wanted all
00:37:05.880along to push perversion and degeneracy, but the population, the general population wouldn't have
00:37:13.340it. And so what they did was they just pushed the boundaries as much as they could progressively
00:37:18.420one inch at a time. And that that actually shaped the culture. So instead of the culture was bad,
00:37:24.500And then that gave us bad leaders. Is it possible that you have bad leaders who shape the culture
00:37:31.520into becoming bad? I think to think that that doesn't exist is I just think a level of just
00:37:39.160bushy-tailed innocence and naivety that we can't afford in this current cultural moment.
00:37:44.140Of course, there are elites in politics, but not just politics. I'm talking markets,
00:37:48.300business, economics, Hollywood. We're talking entertainment. We're talking in medicine and
00:37:55.440all these different realms. There have been powerful people who have a certain agenda
00:38:01.320of degeneracy, of progressive wickedness that have constantly been pushing the boundaries of
00:38:08.440what's generally acceptable among the public who have been guiding. They've been discipling us.
00:38:15.080They have been discipling the culture towards further and further immorality.
00:38:21.000And you've got to be able to see that.
00:38:24.340Yeah, I think that once you really look into this, it is indisputable that that is how it went down.
00:38:33.540And also, but it also can be kind of self-perpetuating.
00:38:38.260What I mean is, you know, I'll give you a good example, right?
00:38:41.740Like me and my wife have been watching Boy Meets World because, you know, we both grew up watching Boy Meets World and we were we remember it very fondly.
00:38:49.560And it was the show that we watched and all of that.
00:38:52.360And I personally remember it being pretty wholesome.
01:02:05.580So they were told that now we're all Ukrainian.
01:02:09.800We're all going to put their Ukrainian flag in the bio and we're all pro-Ukraine.
01:02:14.360They were told what to do and they did it.
01:02:16.200And now, and this is how it perpetuates itself.
01:02:18.620Now, people will demand to get a pro Ukrainian, you know, representative or senator or whatever.
01:02:27.040And it didn't come. The idea didn't start with them. But now they're running with the idea and demanding it.
01:02:32.960Right. So if you if you're not pro Ukraine, you're not even electable anymore.
01:02:36.900Like this is this is how it works. So it perpetuates itself.
01:02:40.080And I think part partially some of the confusion here is we're seeing the second half of that and saying, oh, you see, the people are pro Ukraine.
01:02:48.620um it would it would have been almost just as easy for the for the state to have said
01:02:54.640we're pro-russia exactly ukraine ukraine has completely you know you know missed the ball
01:02:59.480on this one we're we're pro-russia and even though putin was our enemy the day before
01:03:04.600we probably would be in a situation right now if they just said it and everybody said it right
01:03:09.340you know all the media well ukraine is appealing to nato and wants to you know which is their
01:03:13.520nazis it would have been easy to spin there's nazis in ukraine uh they're appealing to nato
01:03:18.360which poses an immediate threat as neighbors sharing a border with Russia. And they've been
01:03:23.760putting up all these bases in Ukraine for decades that has been a threat to Russia.0.72
01:03:28.700Russia is just protecting their homeland. Exactly. So, so exactly. So it's not that the
01:03:34.340Ukraine narrative, the pro Ukraine narrative was so much more believable. It's, it's, you could,
01:03:40.920you could have spun it either way easily. And, and it's not that the public determined that
01:03:47.760without biases from just a simply, you know, perfectly objective, you know, blank slate.
01:03:53.860No, our leaders, they saw what was going on before the public ever heard about it.
01:03:58.840And they determined for their interest that it was better to be pro-Ukraine and against
01:04:05.440Russia. And then they spun that narrative. And the average person, everybody thinks that we're
01:04:11.960individual, that we're snowflakes, that we're unique and that we think for ourselves.
01:04:15.740You don't, you don't, you don't. You've got to understand that 99% of the population, their position is not individual original thought. Their position is, I support the current thing. What do I put in my bio? Okay, yes, sir. How many rainbow flags? Yes, sir. Ukraine? Oh, switch it to Israel now? Yes, sir. That is the average person. And if you can't see that, dude, you just don't know what time it is.
01:04:43.280And this is, and this honestly, like, this is how most people are. You're a hundred percent right. And this is why, um, for Christian nationalists, this is why we should have a lot of confidence that things can change much quicker than we think they can, because we don't need to convince 51% of people that Christ is Lord. We don't have to convince them. We just have to be in the right positions and with the right authority and to say, okay, here's what we're doing now. This is what we're going to do now.
01:05:09.380We just got to be in the right group chat that gets Barron Trump into it and then begins to just, it's inception, right?
01:05:18.500Listen, I'm not going to confirm or deny that Barron Trump is already in our group chats.
01:05:48.020I think I think people would be surprised if you found out like the kinds of people that we're talking to and you're following that are following us and stuff like that.
01:05:59.480um and and it's it's very easy to to to mock christian nationalism as a small movement fringe
01:06:06.280nobody cares and as far as i'm concerned they can keep doing it um but it is it's not going to take
01:06:12.660much man it's just going to take one or two key spots that's right and some of those things are
01:06:17.100already in the works and it's no you're right listen listen this is this is um we should have
01:06:22.460a lot of this is how people are for better or for worse this is how this is the reality of the
01:06:27.520situation most people just go with whatever we're doing now and um i can even like people say oh
01:06:34.760nobody's going to stand for your christian theocracy that is not the case i mean i cannot
01:06:38.700tell you how many conversations i've had with regular people that are unbelievers right that i
01:06:43.360know i know would be with us if we said christ is lord and we're not going to go for this degeneracy1.00
01:06:50.660anymore and we're going to put a stop to this lgbt madness oh yeah i know so many pagans that this is0.92
01:06:57.460the calculus i think i've told you this before joel where i'm talking to someone this is someone0.97
01:07:01.320i know well i know what he believes and he'll go off on some rant about some gay thing in school
01:07:07.580and he'll say something like this this is actually almost word for word he's like yeah you know he's
01:07:12.480cursing you know you take prayer out of school and you know this is what you end up with you
01:07:15.920end up with tampons in the men's room and you know right and you look at him you're like
01:07:20.480like how does this guy get it and i know what he believes right gets it he gets the connection
01:07:28.640you can't tell me that there are not thousands and thousands and thousands of people just like
01:07:34.320him that are that are they know they're unbelievers they don't believe and but they
01:07:38.680make these connections and they would be absolutely with anyone who said look christ is lord there's
01:07:43.940no more tampons in the in the men's restroom as simple as that yep they'll be with it yep0.64
01:07:48.900every gay pride parade they'd be with it if they started enforcing uh you know anti uh or enforcing0.85
01:07:55.300um um uh decency laws against the pride parades they'd be with it they'd be supporting it and0.99
01:08:01.320maybe they don't even know why but they but they make the connection they'd be with it they don't
01:08:05.140they're not worried about us saying christ is lord that's to their they should be worried about
01:08:09.580that but they're not and and and so they'd be in full support this is the thing like like we should
01:08:15.660have a lot of confidence. You know what I mean? Like don't, don't let anyone black pill you and
01:08:19.140thinking, oh, there's only like 10 of you and stuff like that. It doesn't take a lot of people.0.99
01:08:23.340That's right. Because things can change. God, God sometimes takes forever to do something suddenly
01:08:27.440and, and things can switch, right? The vibe shift, you know, the winds can change. The tide can change
01:08:34.440overnight. Uh, because the, because what we've been saying this whole episode, the majority of
01:08:40.600people, the reason why things can change so quickly is because the majority of people are followers.
01:08:44.960They're not leaders, which means that you don't have to change the minds of 330 million people.