The NXR Podcast - THE INTERVIEW - Christian Unity While Disagreeing About Donald Trump

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00:00:42.180 Applying God's Word to every aspect of life.

00:00:45.620 This is Theology Applied.

00:00:53.180 All right, welcome back to another episode of Theology Applied.

00:00:56.560 I am your host, Pastor Joel Webin with Right Response Ministries.

00:00:59.920 In this episode, I'm welcoming back to the show, Mr. David Rees.

00:01:03.560 I should also say Pastor David Rees.

00:01:05.900 David, welcome to the show and remind us real quick the name of your church that you pastor.

00:01:10.680 Thanks, brother.

00:01:11.240 Appreciate you having me on.

00:01:12.960 Puritan Reformed Church in Phoenix, Arizona.

00:01:15.900 Puritan Reformed Church in Phoenix, Arizona.

00:01:18.120 What's the web address if anybody wants to check you out?

00:01:21.140 Puritan.Church.

00:01:22.580 Puritan.Church.

00:01:23.640 And you are also the CEO of Armored Republic.

00:01:26.560 yes and um i've got a it's part of a set of businesses um i have a basically an investment

00:01:35.100 plan where people are able to invest called reese fund um where i i purchase uh companies that are

00:01:42.000 sort of in that smaller 50 to 200 employee range and my goal is to build them out as christian

00:01:48.440 companies where they're able to both internally and externally be able to display christian

00:01:53.800 principles and to be able to have a culture where people can uh can be christian and and to uh and

00:02:00.040 to make it so that those are able to also be used to help to pull together capital to be able to do

00:02:04.840 all sorts of uh of work uh that needs to be done in terms of seeing christian civilization built

00:02:11.720 christendom built out um and uh by the way i'm excited that i'll be able to i was invited to be

00:02:18.680 be able to speak at Fight Laugh Feast this year to be able to talk about building Christendom.

00:02:24.600 So I'll be sharing all sorts of impolitic things during that presentation.

00:02:30.420 Great. Awesome. All right. Well, in this episode, we want to talk a little bit more. I've done this

00:02:37.220 a few times at this point, but it is the talk of the town. We've got an election coming up November

00:02:43.740 5th. And that is the big goings-on right now in America. I think as we're recording this,

00:02:53.480 and we plan to release this on Monday, so just a few days from now, so less than a week.

00:03:00.260 But as we're recording this, I think just yesterday or perhaps the day before,

00:03:04.460 there was potentially a third, not first or second, but third attempt on Donald Trump's life,

00:03:12.180 I think, with an assassination. Just, I mean, 2024 is proving to be quite the year. So we've

00:03:20.660 got the election coming out. You and I take different positions on this in terms of Christians

00:03:25.780 and their duty and voting in a national federal election. We have a lot in common, but on this

00:03:33.180 issue, we are on different sides of the aisle and we want to talk about it. Absolutely. And I think

00:03:40.100 it is, I think that a big question that people have to be able to answer is basically, how do

00:03:47.420 you know who is permissible to vote for, right? And so is there some standard? What has God said

00:03:53.800 on the subject? Has he left it to be an entirely prudential thing? Or is there some sort of a

00:03:58.920 standard to be applied? And are there emergency ropes to pull for different scenarios? So I think

00:04:05.660 those are the questions that really, you know, where the rubber meets the road.

00:04:08.800 Yep. Agreed. Okay, so let's go ahead and start there. Let's start with the standard Exodus 18.

00:04:15.080 I can feel it coming. Great.

00:04:17.100 If you want to open it up and read it.

00:04:19.780 Great. So Exodus 18, verse 21, you know, the broader context here is you have already in Exodus

00:04:26.640 18, you know, basically Jethro, Moses' father-in-law, comes to Moses. And one of the things

00:04:36.400 that you start out with is that the fact that there are already some sort of elders that

00:04:41.340 exist in Israel. You see that earlier on in Exodus, the elders are dealt with in terms

00:04:46.500 of interacting with the people as representatives of the people. So you go, what are these elders

00:04:51.180 that already exist.

00:04:53.420 And I don't think that the Egyptians had lesser magistrates for the Israelites.

00:04:57.860 I don't think they were giving them judges that wielded the sword.

00:05:01.220 These elders were ecclesiastical judges. 0.69

00:05:05.360 So they are essentially, this is a synagogue system.

00:05:08.460 People pretend that the synagogue system was invented during the Babylonian captivity.

00:05:13.560 That is not the case.

00:05:14.520 God has always had his people meet in assembly to worship him.

00:05:18.220 and you see that idea of elders occurring back in the beginning of Exodus.

00:05:25.080 You get to Exodus 18, and you have Jethro approaching,

00:05:30.440 and basically you have Moses and Aaron and elders meeting,

00:05:33.800 and they have a covenantal meal and a sacrifice with Jethro.

00:05:38.140 And so, again, this is in an ecclesiastical context.

00:05:42.060 You're having church officers meeting with Jethro

00:05:45.480 and sharing in this covenant meal.

00:05:48.320 Jethro is a priest, not according to Leviticus,

00:05:53.220 not according to the Levitical order,

00:05:54.840 because it hadn't been established yet.

00:05:55.980 He's a priest after the order of Melchizedek.

00:05:59.640 He's a priest with the Noaic administration,

00:06:03.640 and he is doing the type of work.

00:06:06.460 Pause on that. 1.00

00:06:07.500 Jethro, Midianite, right?

00:06:10.120 Wasn't Jethro?

00:06:11.460 I thought he was a Midianite priest.

00:06:15.480 So you're placing him in the order of Melchizedek.

00:06:18.060 I don't think I've heard this approach before.

00:06:20.540 Where did you get that from?

00:06:23.100 I read the text and went, he's a lawful priest.

00:06:26.600 I didn't know if there was a particular theologian that you could cite.

00:06:30.280 I haven't heard it before.

00:06:31.660 Go ahead.

00:06:32.120 I'm interested.

00:06:32.560 So I'm thinking about, you think about this, right?

00:06:34.680 You have the administrations of the covenant, right?

00:06:36.840 And you think about the covenant of grace.

00:06:38.880 You've got in Genesis 3, animal sacrifice and clothing are ceremonial laws that are instituted.

00:06:45.380 The next administration that you're going to find is you're going to find a noeic change 0.59

00:06:51.980 of the way the sacrifices work.

00:06:54.040 Animal sacrifice turns into a thing where you get to eat the animals.

00:06:57.380 I mean, like way better, right?

00:06:58.760 It sounds like animal sacrifices went from like, what are we doing, to this is awesome.

00:07:02.940 It's now a party.

00:07:03.700 We get to eat the animals. 0.97

00:07:05.020 So then you go to Abraham and you have circumcision, 0.92

00:07:12.500 but there's not a change of the priesthood.

00:07:15.840 It's sort of the same system of sacrifice and everything.

00:07:19.940 And you get to Abraham, he's interacting with Melchizedek, 0.91

00:07:22.520 and the Melchizedekian priesthood is outside of the being Hebrew

00:07:27.860 or being at least Abrahamic, right, because it's a different line.

00:07:32.040 And so you've got Job, Abraham, Melchizedek are all sort of these king-like figures

00:07:38.080 who also are performing priestly functions.

00:07:40.060 and so then by the time you get to to moses if jethro is a is a lawful priest of god it's got

00:07:48.080 to be according to this this sort of the melchizedekian order or in other words the

00:07:52.660 noaic order the the administration coming through noah i think and i could be wrong but i think i

00:07:58.860 just always assumed that he was a midianite priest he is like a pagan priest like midianite like

00:08:07.400 different, like a different God, serving a different God. But Moses married his daughter

00:08:12.260 and that the family, through Moses and that marriage covenant, that the family, not only

00:08:19.120 the daughter, now Moses' wife, but that essentially that her father-in-law and the rest of the family

00:08:25.080 as well converted to worship of the triune God. So Exodus 18, verse 12, we have Jethro,

00:08:34.400 And he's not just, Jethro is performing these sacrifices.

00:08:38.320 He's acting as a priest here.

00:08:39.620 So Exodus 18, verse 12.

00:08:41.660 Then Jethro, Moses' father-in-law, took a burnt offering and other sacrifices to offer to God.

00:08:47.840 How long?

00:08:48.900 Okay.

00:08:49.880 And Aaron came with all the elders of Israel to eat bread with Moses' father-in-law before God.

00:08:54.400 Point well taken.

00:08:55.640 But how long, I guess my question would be, at this point, how long has Jethro been?

00:09:02.220 at what point in the exodus are we because if it's been my point is if it's been 20 years

00:09:08.300 for instance give or take then at that point jethro could have you know he could have been

00:09:15.860 follower of yahweh for 20 years by this point and and so now you know he's he's you know he's

00:09:22.260 converted a long time ago he's been following yahweh for a very long time and he's and so he's

00:09:28.040 serving you know performing certain priestly functions within the levitical priesthood

00:09:33.340 because he's no longer a midianite priest he's abandoned his false gods and been fully converted

00:09:39.080 for a couple decades sure so um this is going to be 40 years you know so moses runs away right he

00:09:46.640 goes to midian and then he's so he's about 40 then and then he's he's he's about 80 when he's

00:09:53.180 called by God. So he's been interacting with Jethro for 40 years. He early on marries Jethro's

00:10:00.140 daughter, and so he's called a priest of Midian. Moses goes to his house. He's working for him,

00:10:09.600 all that stuff. And then in Exodus 18, verse 12, where Jethro offers the sacrifice, this is before

00:10:22.440 the establishment of the Levitical priesthood. And so even if he was converted by Moses,

00:10:29.600 let's say Moses comes to him basically as a missionary, right? And he ends up converting,

00:10:34.260 then the priesthood under which Jethro would be offering sacrifice would have to be the

00:10:42.300 pre-Levitical priesthood. Okay. So Jethro comes and he gives, you know, he looks at the situation,

00:10:53.420 Moses is judging people all day, and this is in his civil magistracy function. And so Moses is

00:10:59.520 interesting because he's basically a prophet-priest king. But it's a pre-kingship thing,

00:11:06.740 it's a temporary thing, it's sort of the dictatorship of the proletariat by God style,

00:11:10.720 where he's coming in as a monarchical leader, hands that over to Joshua,

00:11:16.480 and then that monarchical leadership office disappears after the emergency military situation and settlement.

00:11:23.940 And so from that point forward, it's sort of the Sanhedrin, the civil Sanhedrin that's governing.

00:11:30.360 But sorry, so when that gets established here, this idea of the graded system of civil courts.

00:11:36.040 So we get here, Moses' father-in-law is like, what are you doing?

00:11:40.520 and you're judging people all day. This is bad. This is too much for you. And so he's saying

00:11:48.780 that there's a need for some sort of change. So verse 17, Moses' father-in-law said to him,

00:11:55.740 the thing that you do is not good. Both you and these people who are with you will surely wear

00:12:00.260 yourselves out, for this thing is too much for you. You are not able to perform it by yourself.

00:12:04.940 Listen now to my voice. I will give you counsel, and God will be with you.

00:12:11.360 Stand before God for the people, so that you may bring the difficulties to God.

00:12:16.520 And you shall teach them the statutes and the laws, and show them the way in which they must walk, and the work they must do.

00:12:23.460 Verse 21.

00:12:24.180 Moreover, you shall select from all the people able men, such as fear God, men of truth, hating covetousness,

00:12:33.760 and place such over them to be rulers of thousands, rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties, and rulers of tens.

00:12:39.420 And let them judge the people at all times.

00:12:41.900 Then it will be that every great matter they shall bring to you, but every small matter they themselves shall judge.

00:12:48.820 So it will be easier for you, for they will bear the burden with you.

00:12:52.420 If you do this thing, and God so commands you, then you will be able to endure, and all this people will also go to their place in peace.

00:13:03.900 And then Moses heeds him.

00:13:05.500 So he's saying God's going to bless, and he says that God commands this.

00:13:10.180 And so he's a prophet, right?

00:13:12.860 He's a lawful priest that these guys eat with, they have a covenant meal with, and participate in these sacrifices.

00:13:20.480 and he's a prophet bringing this commandment and so that's why i think jethro a priest after the

00:13:27.600 order of melchizedek um is is a is a guy who's fulfilling this prophetic role bringing this to

00:13:34.640 moses and this is a part of the granting of the constitution of the civil order of israel

00:13:39.260 okay so those those qualifications are listed out we've got six qualifications it's somebody

00:13:45.720 from among you right so it's it's a citizen of your own nation um it's a man so a male an adult

00:13:52.920 male real quick go back to the first one real quick um i'm curious what's your opinion of uh

00:13:58.240 civil rulers who have dual citizenship dual citizenship um i mean typically i'll be honest

00:14:07.620 it's typically going to be israel and the u.s i'm not a huge fan but i'm curious i i think i just

00:14:14.140 think it splits allegiances, loyalties. Yeah. So if you have a covenant where you have a duty

00:14:22.500 of obligation to some civil authority, that's what citizenship is. It's being covenanted with

00:14:28.300 that civil authority. If you are in that covenant, that would be like having church

00:14:35.280 membership at two churches or being a part of two households. It's something that seems mutually

00:14:43.560 exclusive unless it's a subordinate portion right so so i can be a citizen of arizona you can be a

00:14:52.060 citizen of texas and we can both be citizens of a federated union so unless the other citizenship

00:14:58.380 is a subordinated uh citizenship then i think it would be a contradictory thing okay

00:15:05.800 so okay so so we have from among you so he has to be a citizen um he has to be a man an adult male

00:15:14.520 and then able is kail so the phrase for for an able man is ish kail which is which is the man

00:15:20.620 of valor is normally how this translated um and so uh ish gabor kail is the mighty man of valor

00:15:25.740 and so uh this idea of of the kail i think is about competency the display of of being decisive

00:15:32.920 in business and decisive in battle.

00:15:35.440 It's like Boaz is listed as one example.

00:15:38.860 You have lots of guys that are called that, you know, David's mighty men of valor, all

00:15:41.860 that.

00:15:42.440 So he's got to be from among you.

00:15:44.320 He's got to be a man.

00:15:45.480 He's got to be competent.

00:15:47.840 And he has to fear God, which I take to mean as a credible profession of faith.

00:15:52.040 I'd be curious when we get to that piece, what you view that as.

00:15:56.160 And then he has to love truth, and he has to hate covetousness or be a man of truth

00:16:00.640 and hate covetousness.

00:16:01.680 So those are the six qualifications laid out in Exodus 18.21.

00:16:05.360 I don't see any of those as being particular to Israel.

00:16:09.880 And so when we look at it as a civil law, the general equity is going to be such that,

00:16:14.820 okay, well, they don't have to be Israelites. 0.74

00:16:17.280 They have to be from whatever country it is, right? 0.82

00:16:19.980 Of course.

00:16:20.280 And so I see these six things as having general equity that applies to all the nations.

00:16:25.420 And it's just not Israel, it's whatever nation.

00:16:27.700 What's the general equity of being a man?

00:16:29.480 uh the general equity of being a man is being a man amen pastor weapon yes sir yeah amen love it

00:16:37.340 okay so so brother what would you say is the general equity of being competent uh competent

00:16:42.700 okay i mean so so far we're like we're batting like a hundred here that's what i you know it's

00:16:49.040 funny tithing that that uh that line of rhetoric usually comes up with and when people like well

00:16:53.640 i don't know if i you know i don't know if the new testament and i was like well you know what's

00:16:58.040 the general equity of 10%. You know, it's like, oh, it's kind of 10%. Now, that being said, I do

00:17:05.080 appreciate what Rush Dooney says in terms of the church does a lot less than it used to, and that

00:17:10.420 it should. But part of that is because the church forfeited and abdicated and, you know, and the

00:17:17.100 state has taken upon itself to do all those things, you know, and you can always trust the state to do

00:17:21.420 them poorly. But anyways, but yeah, those kind of things, there are some things where it's like

00:17:25.360 precipice on the, a parapet on the roof might mean speed limits on the highway. But some things,

00:17:32.880 it's just important for New Testament Christians to get that through their head, to understand that 0.81

00:17:36.960 some things, the general equity of maleness is maleness, right? Like that just doesn't,

00:17:43.000 so anyways, back to you. Yeah, I think that's right. I think, what is general equity? We like

00:17:47.920 to make it into this like mystical thing. It's like, what I feel applies, you know, and it's

00:17:52.140 like no that's not that's not what general equity means general equity is the principles that are

00:17:55.740 common to all the nations the common law the principle of justice so it's it's it's obvious

00:18:01.540 in scripture that being ruled by women or children is considered a curse right and being ruled by men

00:18:07.500 is the fitting thing and particular types of men is who you should be ruled by is it's not just 0.86

00:18:12.460 it's not just any man right we got other stuff that's supposed to be the things that you're

00:18:16.920 looking for in men but that's one of the sort criteria that makes us it's easy you go oh okay

00:18:21.840 So man or not a man, okay, fairly, and apparently the Bible thinks that there is such a distinction between a man and not a man.

00:18:28.120 Another thing that our insane society is not willing to admit.

00:18:33.220 Right, right, yes.

00:18:34.680 So if we get to this and we're thinking about the particular election, right, that we're dealing with right now, we start to go, okay, so I'm happy to admit that President Donald Trump, by the way, he was president.

00:18:49.820 and frankly i think that he is the lawful president from the last election but i also

00:18:55.800 didn't think he was qualified so there's an important distinction between who is the valid

00:19:00.480 or lawful president and then there's qualification right so you can have a guy who's not qualified

00:19:05.660 and you still got to acknowledge him as a lawful ruler if he's lawfully elected and lawfully put

00:19:11.060 into office right um so there are certain things that qualify that give justification for resistance

00:19:16.560 or the removal of a person, that's different.

00:19:19.100 That's a different bar than who's qualified to be voted for.

00:19:23.420 That's a good distinction.

00:19:24.640 Yeah.

00:19:25.760 So we have President Trump is from among us.

00:19:29.480 He's a citizen.

00:19:30.800 President Trump is a man.

00:19:33.140 I mean, we agree about that so far.

00:19:35.420 We're good so far.

00:19:36.420 All right.

00:19:37.360 He's competent.

00:19:38.280 He's obviously a guy who can be decisive, make decisions, make stuff happen.

00:19:44.160 I think so.

00:19:45.040 for the month there's some sometimes i'm like i don't know if he's always twitter competent you

00:19:49.060 know but um but then again i'm like ah man but on he might actually just be a twitter genius you

00:19:55.260 know like that because i i get in hot water as you know all this and like maybe he's playing 4d chess

00:20:00.300 and you know i go back on some things where it's like back in like 2017 or 18 i was like why did

00:20:05.120 he say that and now i look back and i'm like that was awesome i love that he said that so anyway it's

00:20:10.220 all that being said, yes, I think he is generally competent. And I think where he's not, one of the

00:20:15.140 things that I've appreciated about him is I think one of the best things about Trump is not that you

00:20:20.220 get Trump. For me, and this will get into our larger conversation, but when electing particularly

00:20:26.060 a president is I'm looking very much to what administration that's going to provide for me

00:20:31.140 and not just the president. And so with Trump, I do think that one of the things he's competent in

00:20:37.180 is recognizing where he's not competent

00:20:39.020 and staffing those weaknesses

00:20:40.180 and getting some of the best team.

00:20:42.720 And I think he got some of the most competent people.

00:20:44.740 He didn't get all the most loyal people.

00:20:47.320 I'm hoping that he's learned that lesson.

00:20:48.880 So now we can get competent people

00:20:50.240 and loyal people when he wins.

00:20:53.560 I don't think it's if, when he wins.

00:20:55.440 The only if is, I think he'll win.

00:20:57.700 The only question is, will they let him be president?

00:21:00.100 Will he live?

00:21:01.560 That's still a question.

00:21:02.300 But anyways, competent, yeah, I'm with you.

00:21:04.560 We're three for three.

00:21:05.980 All right.

00:21:07.180 I'm going to be honest with you.

00:21:08.560 This one, it's going behind the paywall.

00:21:10.960 It's not something we typically do.

00:21:12.500 In fact, thus far, every single piece of content that we've produced here at Right Response Ministries

00:21:18.180 has eventually been made available to you for free publicly.

00:21:23.020 This is an exception, though.

00:21:24.660 First two episodes will launch publicly.

00:21:27.000 The next seven episodes will exclusively be available for our members at patreon.com forward slash Right Response Ministries.

00:21:35.780 Why?

00:21:36.740 Well, I'll give you the reason.

00:21:39.120 Because right now, the vast majority of evangelical Christians are not ready for the conversation that we have in these episodes.

00:21:46.700 And frankly, you and I both know that many of those individuals are actually bad faith actors who will seek to slice it up, take us out of context, put it out there for the World Wide Web in order to discredit this ministry and see to it that we're canceled.

00:22:04.800 And honestly, I'm not willing to let that happen.

00:22:07.640 What conversation am I even talking about?

00:22:09.980 I'm talking about nine-part series

00:22:12.300 between myself and Pastor Andrew Isker on Israel.

00:22:17.380 The history, the scripture, the whole big shebang.

00:22:22.040 Check it out at patreon.com forward slash

00:22:25.660 Right Response Ministries.

00:22:27.280 You can get every single episode available now,

00:22:29.820 all of it ad-free.

00:22:31.360 And here's a couple of clips just to whet your appetite.

00:22:34.860 And so our entire moral framework is based around 1930 and 1940. 0.89

00:22:39.200 And every bad thing is Hitler.

00:22:42.320 Every failure to confront the bad thing is Neville Chamberlain. 0.85

00:22:47.040 And Saddam Hussein, Hitler.

00:22:49.500 Vladimir Putin, Hitler.

00:22:50.920 Donald Trump, Hitler.

00:22:52.300 That's the only moral framework that we have that is operable.

00:22:56.560 So the moment that a young man crosses the aisle and the don't believe your lying eyes rhetoric doesn't work any longer, and he's just noticed too much because it really is that blatantly obvious, and he crosses the aisle, well, the moment he crosses the aisle, there's no reasonable, wise, mature leader over there.

00:23:13.720 You would just have the guys on the TV telling them, this is what the Bible says.

00:23:18.660 You have to believe this, right?

00:23:20.180 On the radio, the Christian radio stations, you'd only hear those guys preaching that particular thing.

00:23:26.280 When that is actually, when you look at all of church history, that's the minority view, a tiny minority view.

00:23:34.860 The rest of theological history in the church is the kind of stuff that we're saying.

00:23:42.200 Yeah, this one's a banger. Again, go to patreon.com forward slash right response ministries

00:23:48.880 to get all nine parts ad free right now available today.

00:23:55.400 Okay, so the among us is citizens, the maleness, being adult male, competent, then the idea of

00:24:04.240 fearing God. And I think that somebody could try to make some sort of argument that fearing God

00:24:09.800 is used for some lower bar than, you know, credible profession of faith, or you could

00:24:13.300 try to make the argument for credible profession of faith.

00:24:15.420 I think fearing God, the fear of God in terms of seeing somebody as a God-fearer has to

00:24:19.920 do with the credible profession when you look at how others, you know, are judged.

00:24:24.860 But so I think that's something where you could go, what is that?

00:24:27.420 And so I'm going to say, I don't believe Donald Trump has a credible profession.

00:24:30.480 I don't think that Donald Trump gives the display of the fear of God.

00:24:34.260 So then there's the idea of a person who's a man of truth, I think is, let me double

00:24:38.940 check the language so i don't twist god's word uh men of truth yeah i think a man of truth real

00:24:44.480 quick can we go back to fearing god just for a second yeah um cornelius acts chapter 10 um

00:24:50.620 correct me if i'm wrong uh uh he was known as god fearing i think is the language um this is before

00:24:58.580 a credible profession of faith because he didn't know exactly who to profess to and that's part

00:25:05.720 the reason why the Holy Spirit brings Peter, and he has this heavenly visitation with a sheet and

00:25:12.940 all these things. Don't call unclean what God has called clean. He goes to Cornelius and preaches

00:25:17.160 the gospel of Jesus Christ and Cornelius, then has a profession of faith. My take, and I'd be

00:25:26.260 curious to hear yours, but my take is, it's like, well, how could he fear God before that? And how,

00:25:30.420 you know, and how could he be known as someone who, you know, gave offerings to God and did

00:25:34.780 many charitable you know things and all these kind like because it seems the text seems pretty

00:25:38.980 clear that uh before peter ever even got there um that cornelius was was solid and so my my take is

00:25:45.740 and i think it's the reform take is that cornelius actually was a christian he was already regenerate

00:25:49.920 um because people say that like well you know if if cornelius had died while peter was on the way

00:25:55.460 he still would have gone to hell even though he feared god even though he gave many charitable

00:25:58.960 gifts even that you know because at the end of the day it's a profession in jesus and i get what 0.54

00:26:02.400 they're getting at, that's a very kind of Baptist-y thing to say, and I appreciate it.

00:26:06.380 You know, personal evangelism, and know the name that man can be saved, but, you know,

00:26:10.640 the name is—and I get that, and I appreciate the sentiment, but I think it's a wrong-headed

00:26:14.320 sentiment.

00:26:15.220 I think that Cornelius, in this case, was exemplifying characteristics that only a truly

00:26:21.840 regenerate man could exemplify, and that this is a case of regeneration, which does always

00:26:29.220 precede faith in the logical order, but here we have a unique, for that dispensation, for lack

00:26:36.500 of a better word, where there's this overlap from Pentecost and then, you know, falling back up with

00:26:40.680 the basis that the Spirit had been poured out, but a lot of people still only had John's baptism

00:26:47.460 and the repentance that John had preached. And so there's this weird time in church history

00:26:52.140 where regeneration, which always logically precedes faith, at this moment there was even

00:26:58.320 a chronological proceeding of regeneration. And then faith, particularly attaching to the object

00:27:04.820 of Jesus Christ, came later. So anyway, I'm saying all that to say, here's a guy who people would

00:27:09.880 point to. If anything, I'm helping you strengthen your argument. But here's a guy that some people

00:27:16.620 point to as an example of someone who was not a Christian because he didn't know about Jesus yet,

00:27:22.080 or didn't know enough about Jesus, or Peter hadn't preached to him yet. And yet he feared God.

00:27:28.320 and and i would and i would be of the persuasion that uh no he he feared god because he was

00:27:34.580 regenerate and there was some dotting of i's and crossings of t's that came later in a unique

00:27:40.480 dispensation of dispensation of time where the spirit had been poured out but he had only yet

00:27:45.360 heard john's you know john's message of repentance what do you think yeah i think that i would say

00:27:52.480 cornelius when you look at the idea of a god fear uh the the jewish writings of the time talked

00:27:57.400 about those who were gentiles who believed but had not become jews by circumcision and and so i

00:28:04.500 think that making profession and and doing things that are adherence you know in kind of reformed

00:28:10.740 presbyterian covenanter type circles you have like attenders adherence and members and so like an

00:28:16.580 adherent is somebody who's like generally agreement maybe there's like some sort of a thing where

00:28:20.640 there's a hang-up where they're not quite ready to covenant and so as a result they've been they

00:28:24.880 They're not able to have to meet the terms of communion by covenanting or to receive baptism.

00:28:31.820 There's some sort of thing that they're generally in agreement with the Reformed religion.

00:28:36.300 There's something going on where they're trying to be of use to the church 0.95

00:28:40.620 and to be submissive to the word of God and all that.

00:28:45.280 And so I think that basically the Christian church before Christ, 0.85

00:28:50.740 the Old Covenant Church, is what we often call the Jews of old or whatever.

00:28:57.920 But the idea that he was a guy who was a regular attender at the local Old Covenant Church

00:29:05.540 of whatever town he was in, I can't remember.

00:29:09.300 And so he's there, he's hearing the word preached, and it's promising the Messiah to come.

00:29:15.080 And he doesn't know that the Messiah has come yet.

00:29:16.920 and and so then he he you know peter comes to him and tells him you know this is the new covenant

00:29:23.040 and this is jesus and he's the messiah that was promised and he believes it so he's already

00:29:27.780 believing the gospel about the messiah to come he then finds out this is the messiah that came

00:29:31.580 and and and i think that that's that's what's happening there so it sounds like you and i are

00:29:36.320 are in agreement on on what kind of guy cornelius is and and so i view him as having been used to

00:29:43.360 show how in the new covenant with him being baptized you're able to be a part of the visible

00:29:47.120 church without receiving the old covenant sign of circumcision and i think that's a part of the way

00:29:51.980 of showing the the replacement of the entry ritual of circumcision with baptism in the new covenant

00:29:57.900 okay so so if this is category of of god fearer um is something that actually means that there's a

00:30:06.700 there's a credible profession or there's there's there's there's there's a profession of faith

00:30:11.220 and actions that help to display that you could see this guy

00:30:15.080 as having a credible basis for saying he fears God.

00:30:19.340 That's not the same requirement as somebody being able to meet the terms of communion

00:30:24.220 at some church with a church covenant.

00:30:28.040 And so the way I've applied that generally is, does this guy seem to have,

00:30:32.320 is there any evidence that this guy is basically a conservative Protestant?

00:30:34.740 it's kind of that's kind of the low bar that i that i'm generally applying here uh in our current

00:30:41.560 state i think that you could have a national covenant a civil covenant that makes it so

00:30:45.500 there's a greater amount but in our current kind of collapsed thing the emergency and on that i'm

00:30:50.920 pulling is like just the weakest of evidence that this guy's a conservative protestant

00:30:57.280 so that's that's where i'm going so then then we go a guy who a man of truth is like is he a

00:31:05.340 truth teller you know and and with with trumping like well he says some hard truths but then there's

00:31:10.320 also the question of okay well how much lying you know do you see um and so if a guy is consistently

00:31:18.500 willing to say hard truths but also lies a lot i would say he's not a man of truth um and so i think

00:31:26.360 those are questions of fact, right? When you're judging something, you have to figure out the

00:31:31.460 doctrine or the law, and you've got to have a standard. Then you've got to evaluate the

00:31:35.860 particular facts of a scenario. So with Donald Trump, we're evaluating the facts in the case

00:31:40.200 of a particular man. And so I think the first thing would be like, do you and I agree about

00:31:44.580 the law standard? And are there emergency pull things? And then when we figure out, okay,

00:31:50.140 what are the emergency lines? And like, what's the general standard? What are some of the

00:31:53.540 emergency exceptions, and then, okay, in this case, does he meet the general standard? Or in

00:31:58.060 this case, does he even meet the emergency standard? Or are we like, you know, way beyond

00:32:02.860 even those lines? And somebody might say the emergency standard is just the lesser of two

00:32:06.900 awful choices. I think that's, you know, we'll see where that goes. But that's sort of where I would

00:32:12.540 say we have to figure out is what are the lines? And when are those lines where? And I think you

00:32:19.120 can prove from Scripture that the lines can move in certain circumstances. So for example,

00:32:25.520 in the Hezekiah Reformation, God ordained that only the priests sacrifice, not the Levites in

00:32:32.040 general. When you see the Passover being dealt with in the Reformation with Hezekiah, there's 0.55

00:32:38.340 not enough priests. And so they end up having the Levites participate in the sacrifices. So that's 0.65

00:32:44.500 sort of like if you, in an emergency situation, didn't have enough elders and you had the deacons

00:32:48.860 you know, preach or like you're training somebody to prepare, you know, there's also this like

00:32:53.560 assistant process, right? So, so the Bible has processes for people to train and the Bible has

00:32:58.200 processes for emergency, like, oh, you move, you try to maintain the ordinary order as much as

00:33:03.040 possible and you retreat down the line. So you go from priests to Levites in the administration

00:33:08.020 of the sacrifices during the Hezekiah Reformation. And so there's stuff like that all over the place

00:33:13.340 in the Bible. And so people kind of treat the Bible like, well, this is a standard,

00:33:16.180 but everything's awful so we just need to totally abandon all standards and i want to say no we need

00:33:21.360 to find the retreat lines because the bible was written by wait for it god and he figured out all

00:33:28.920 the exceptions in the history that he predestined and he made sure that his book had all of the

00:33:34.540 retreat lines that we need for the exceptions and so people kind of act like you know well there's

00:33:40.240 exceptions and the exceptions aren't in the book it's like no they're all there they're all in the

00:33:44.100 book. And so that's what I want to say is, what is the retreat line that we go to if we can't find

00:33:49.860 a God-fearer, and if we can't find somebody who is a man of truth, then we go hate covetousness.

00:33:56.340 What is hate covetousness? Some people could say, well, maybe Donald Trump is covetous in various

00:34:02.300 things, or look, he wants to make money. It's like, well, making money is not a problem. Making

00:34:06.500 money is good. Covetousness is wanting to take other people's money. So maybe the fact that he

00:34:10.060 wants to cut taxes shows that he is a man who hates covetousness. You know, and maybe the fact

00:34:15.180 that he wants to undermine socialism to some extent. So I would go, I don't think he's free

00:34:19.400 market enough, but I'm even willing to kind of just go, well, let's grant that the guy hates

00:34:25.240 covetousness. So that one, I don't even want to debate on that. I'm willing to say just fine. I'd

00:34:30.660 be happy to say he hates covetousness enough for me to say that I could vote for him. I land into

00:34:36.280 this problem of the fearing God and the man of truth thing.

00:34:41.800 Real quick, so fearing God, I get, man of truth, you said, like, in terms of lies,

00:34:48.180 what are, what are you thinking of?

00:34:49.440 What are some of the big lies that you feel like Trump told?

00:34:55.780 So I don't actually, this is like, if I get in an argument with my wife, right, like my

00:35:01.320 wife is really great at remembering particulars, I'm just like, I don't, I don't know, I've

00:35:05.320 got a general sense of the conversation we had five minutes ago uh so with trump i don't have

00:35:10.420 any like big lies that i would hold on to um that i that i can remember from him i i think that

00:35:15.920 generally when i'm talking to people even people that are kind of pro trump uh they think that

00:35:21.560 there's stuff where he is an exaggerator a liar says stuff that's fitting to his interests um so

00:35:28.520 i can't really recall anything right here so yeah i think exaggerations i think that's fair i just

00:35:34.500 i know i feel for the guy in the sense that like there's been so many lies you know told about him

00:35:41.600 whether it's the russian you know uh collusion or you know or um uh the very fine people hoax

00:35:50.780 you know very fine people on both sides that eventually even snopes you know like god-hating

00:35:56.660 leftists you know they came out and said yeah that was you know but they always they always

00:36:00.900 correct the record like like three or four years later after after he's already paid the cost you

00:36:07.960 know so it's like he has you know so he pays the cost for you know the thing that he did that was

00:36:12.460 so terrible that you know oh by the way we just lied and part of that's just because our whole

00:36:16.260 american system we've apostatized so far from the lord jesus christ that there's no penalty for

00:36:21.140 perjury not really you know i mean there's so many contexts where you can just you can slander

00:36:27.100 someone purge or someone you know and uh and and get away scott clink and so why not you know just

00:36:35.100 because you don't have to you don't actually have to be right you don't have to back it up you don't

00:36:38.560 have to be truthful you just have to um you just have to be able to keep it up long enough and get

00:36:45.080 enough of the cameras turned on as you're doing it to get your way so absolutely i think so i'm i'm

00:36:52.540 even like because i don't have anything that i'm gonna say that i'm holding against him and i can't

00:36:58.240 think of like hard truths that he's been willing to say right right um so if i'm gonna go okay so

00:37:03.440 i could even like i could even budge on that but i could even just go well maybe maybe it's the case

00:37:08.340 so if i were if i were you know i could research that further whatever else but as far as like

00:37:14.840 if i were just trying to deal with this and go minimal bar if i'm not investigating it that far

00:37:20.780 because it's kind of absurd that I'm voting for one out of 300 and whatever million people for the presidency

00:37:25.720 as opposed to having a graded system where you have – part of the purpose of the electoral college

00:37:30.440 is that you've got people who interact with these people, right?

00:37:33.220 And so we've moved away to this almost direct democracy version of the election of presidents

00:37:40.240 that makes it so that you're encouraging demagoguery and general PR campaigns

00:37:45.260 as opposed to some sort of an effort by people who are elected to deal with each other

00:37:52.500 and to then be able to choose with the basis of character being a part of it.

00:37:56.700 So even just all that, we just go to the fierce God thing.

00:38:01.840 I saw him post a prayer to the Archangel Michael.

00:38:05.360 I saw that.

00:38:07.960 He's abandoned the protection of the unborn. 0.72

00:38:11.300 and he's abandoned the idea of fighting for biblical marriage

00:38:19.580 as the proper view of marriage.

00:38:21.940 There's all this stuff where you just go, this is not the fear of God.

00:38:27.240 This is doing what he pleases or doing what he thinks is expedient.

00:38:33.340 and it is so important that a man be willing to stand against against what's

00:38:40.900 popular for what's right and it's also important that a man be willing to not

00:38:45.400 worship his own will but instead fear God that God will bring judgment if he

00:38:50.440 goes for his preferences as opposed to as opposed to obeying God and so that's

00:38:55.720 where I just go I can't I think I can give way I can go okay fine maybe on

00:39:01.420 on everything except for fears god yep i get it fair um especially on the issue of life and and

00:39:09.500 marriage uh on both of those issues um yeah when i talked to ben zeisloff about this and we did our

00:39:16.220 our debate um i tried to be a little bit more honest than i think um some you know some guys

00:39:25.820 who are on my side of the aisle on this issue of voting for trump um you know conservative

00:39:30.700 Christian guys, but pro-Trump for this election. A lot of them I've noticed try to, you know,

00:39:39.220 like, oh yeah, but he's the most pro-life president that there's ever been. And I get it. I get what's

00:39:44.780 being said. On one hand, I actually, I don't only sympathize, but I actually agree in the sense that

00:39:50.480 I think, you know, if you voted for Mitt Romney or you voted for, you know, all your Jeb Bushes

00:39:56.580 and your Mitt Romneys and your George Bushes,

00:39:58.540 even for that matter.

00:40:00.960 I don't think these guys were pro-life.

00:40:03.760 I think Roe provided 50 years cover

00:40:08.140 of a veil, a facade that allowed guys

00:40:13.760 to offer lip service and pretend to be pro-life

00:40:17.100 when they really weren't.

00:40:19.100 So I actually don't think that,

00:40:22.320 whether it's McCain or, you know,

00:40:24.060 like i think there's a lot of guys um i guess i just want to be honest about that like because

00:40:28.940 i do think that trump is getting you know uh he's getting a lot of grief on the life issue and

00:40:34.340 rightfully so he should but i just want to be fair and say as much grief as we give them let's just

00:40:39.140 remember all these other guys were even worse they were worse and it's not fair that they get to go

00:40:43.460 down in history as like um really great guys you know with their forever wars i mean mccain you

00:40:51.440 know like he's like you know i feel like you know from the grave right now just like yes world war

00:40:57.980 three yes i mean like these these were not good guys these were these were warmongering um guys

00:41:06.160 who who gave just a little bit of lip service to the life issue who i don't i don't who in in terms

00:41:12.240 of not what they said or theory but in terms of practice tangibly um trump has done more for the

00:41:18.380 issue of life than all of them uh kind of like the son you know who's like the dad says go into

00:41:23.040 the vineyard he says uh-uh but then he shows up so trump maybe with a bad bad attitude talks back

00:41:29.440 to dad you know but then he actually showed up and he and he did more than any president in my

00:41:35.200 lifetime um on the issue of life that said he has spent the last 18 months uh verbally backtracking

00:41:44.120 all of it and i'm perfectly willing to admit that there's no there's no way around it and i'm and

00:41:49.740 i'm willing to admit that that trump is i don't know the functionally what he did like best

00:41:55.400 president since reagan maybe better than reagan maybe best president since like eisenhower i think

00:41:59.000 under eisenhower government got cut by like 50 percent you know that's nice so so it's just kind

00:42:04.960 of like it's like all right i mean like like you know he was he was like i think he one of his

00:42:10.920 executive orders was like, you can't put a regulation into place without killing two.

00:42:15.320 You know, there was all this kind of stuff.

00:42:17.400 Like, you know, DeVos, you know, Secretary DeVos, like, just hatcheting the Department

00:42:22.540 of Education.

00:42:23.240 I mean, they're like, you know, they're like joyous, like, glorious things that were happening

00:42:27.700 in many scenarios.

00:42:28.620 It's just like, all right, I mean, a lot of that stuff's good. 0.81

00:42:31.420 And obviously, the overturn of Roe, you know, God can use men who are not qualified to do

00:42:37.980 stuff.

00:42:38.520 And I think there are lots of benefits, lots of restraints of evil that occurred there. 0.85

00:42:42.420 And I think that the Lord can get Donald Trump into office with or without Christians voting for a man who's not qualified. 0.74

00:42:50.640 And I think that the question for everybody is not what's the pragmatic effect. 0.51

00:42:56.360 Because I would much rather have, you know, if I can choose to live under one or the other, you know,

00:43:03.000 so there's two countries there's one ruled by you know by communist harris and there's another

00:43:08.320 one that's ruled by donald trump and which one do i get to go you know move into i'm if i have

00:43:15.400 to flee into a country i'm going to flee in the one ruled by donald trump right you know so it

00:43:19.900 doesn't mean that i think that he's qualified if only if only you had a choice wait a second

00:43:24.580 you do have a choice november 5th i expect to see you there voting i will be writing i will be

00:43:32.400 writing in a qualified man all right but but but so that idea so like yeah i get that and so somebody

00:43:40.620 goes like well if you would choose to live there then shouldn't you choose to vote for him it's

00:43:44.120 like well no because the lord can also take our obedience doing something that seems like it's

00:43:49.180 totally unlikely to succeed you know voting for a qualified person you know you're all welcome to

00:43:54.060 write me in or we can write in pastor webin you know like like let's do that i'm just gonna write

00:43:58.660 I'm going to write in Pastor Webber.

00:44:00.740 Well, it wouldn't be fair because I would feel obligated to return the favor,

00:44:04.180 and I can't unless you win me over, and I don't think it's likely.

00:44:07.940 But here's a crazy thing.

00:44:11.480 As you know, I have many convictions, and most of them,

00:44:14.260 the two of us share together.

00:44:15.180 But if I had my way, we would repeal the 19th Amendment.

00:44:21.140 If I had my way, Trump would be a man who feared the Lord

00:44:25.080 and stood for the issue of life.

00:44:27.440 there'd be a lot of things that i would change and yet despite all those things not only will i

00:44:34.840 but uh i myself and mrs webin will be going in noses unplugged to vote for donald j trump

00:44:43.600 and uh and i have my theological reasons for why and how i defend that uh which we can get to here

00:44:51.800 here in a moment, but that's, that's how, how strongly I feel on the issue is that, um, I think

00:44:58.040 there was some, like my, my wife, for instance, um, if we ever got to the point, I don't, I don't

00:45:02.240 know if it would happen in our lifetime. Uh, but if we, but I have seen the Overton window shift

00:45:06.080 quite a bit on this issue, but if we ever got to the point where it was on the docket and it was

00:45:09.880 something ironically that, um, that, that America was voting for voting to take away the vote of

00:45:16.280 women. My wife would, me and my wife would both vote on principle with conviction to take away

00:45:23.840 her vote. So you know what I mean? Like saying that I do believe according to God's law, I think

00:45:29.920 it's wrong. I think it's wrong. I believe in representative government at every single level,

00:45:34.500 all the way down to the household. And it doesn't go down to the individual. It stops at the

00:45:38.340 household. Molecular, not atomistic. The basic building block, the smallest building block of

00:45:43.300 a nation, a civic covenant, is a family and not an individual. And so I actually think that on

00:45:49.640 principle, it's wrong for there to be more than a household vote. That said, in prudence,

00:45:58.900 I don't want to, I want to get my full household vote. Right now, if I go and vote and my wife 1.00

00:46:04.200 doesn't, then I look at it as, it takes now two votes from the Webbin household just to get our

00:46:09.940 one and i'm not willing to part with half of it if does that make sense all right that's it guys i

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00:48:41.900 Yeah, and I think as regards that there might be, I'd have to think about the logic of it more.

00:48:48.500 In my own household, you know, whatever's out of faith is sin, and so if you can't do something

00:48:52.680 in faith, you know, you shouldn't do it. And so in my own house, you know, my wife was like,

00:48:57.460 you know i i think that i'm exercising authority over men in the civil sphere as i vote and so

00:49:02.720 her conscience was bothered my wife had that same thought and then the way we reasoned through it

00:49:06.560 and maybe i'm wrong but the way we reasoned through it was um basically her as my vice

00:49:10.960 and say no you're um we currently live at a wicked time with rick wicked rulers who are

00:49:17.020 dominated by feminism and hate men and um and so they changed the rule book um and uh so what

00:49:23.320 you're doing is not exercising your authority over men um but what we're doing is um having to

00:49:29.120 get creative with the wicked landscape and uh you're ensuring that i have my full authority

00:49:34.340 as as a citizen um and that my authority uh what what the wicked rulers wanted to do is they wanted

00:49:39.660 to strip away half of a man's authority and uh and you're and what you're doing is you're conceding

00:49:44.400 it back to me by voting in line with with with the decision that i make for our family so that's

00:49:50.760 how we kind of reason to. And I'm not, I'm not in a place where I'm willing to condemn that

00:49:55.420 reasoning. I need to think about it further. You know, I just, I think I, but I, it was, it was

00:50:00.380 something that basically, um, just that's, that's where, that's where my wife's conscience landed.

00:50:06.200 That's where I am. Um, and I, so I can't in faith do that. I want to study it further and to think

00:50:12.620 about it. I think that there's, it's worth the argument you're presenting is certainly not with

00:50:16.340 not worth just immediately going, ah, it's ridiculous.

00:50:19.300 I think that's something that has to be considered,

00:50:22.260 and I just haven't given it sufficient time,

00:50:25.860 in part because there's so many good works to do.

00:50:28.240 You figure out where do you give your time to study,

00:50:30.220 what duties do you have to do what.

00:50:31.680 I get it.

00:50:32.160 And the practical effect of the vote is I'm confident

00:50:37.480 that if she does it against her conscience, it's sin.

00:50:40.680 That's right.

00:50:41.300 And I think that she's right,

00:50:45.160 but i i also don't want to go or so i answer when people ask me about it or whatever i talk to them

00:50:51.040 about it uh in my own church but i i try to i'm going i haven't i haven't worked through all of

00:50:56.240 it because there may be a way in which like the type of thing you're arguing with the representation

00:51:00.560 and giving it back possibly so i just i need to i need to think about it further and so forgive my

00:51:04.900 no that's fine i appreciate that and it's really it's not a cop-out because um yeah you're right

00:51:11.620 first um romans 14 is incredibly important there are certain things so it's just like

00:51:16.420 yeah if you're not there you're not there uh anything that does not proceed from faith is

00:51:20.480 sin and so i'm with you so with that going back to trump also repeal the 19th yeah absolutely

00:51:26.960 amen and for just just so the women don't feel like we're picking on them one we we think we

00:51:32.400 should repeal the 19th because we we love god and because we love women um yes and uh but beyond

00:51:37.840 that it's um it's really it's more than just and i know you'll agree with this repealing the 19th

00:51:42.840 it's uh universal suffrage is not god's design so there's a lot of men who shouldn't be voting

00:51:47.360 either um there's right um like you and i would both agree it needs you need to have um you need

00:51:53.920 to be head of household um uh that means there's people under you a man who is um under authority

00:52:00.080 and in authority uh you're representing someone representative government you i think you need to

00:52:04.520 have a stake in the country as it presently lies, but also a stake in the future. And that's why

00:52:11.460 marriage is important because it indicates childbearing and these kinds of things, future

00:52:15.420 generations, a stake in the country also in terms of ownership, land-owning males. There's a whole

00:52:21.020 lot of, it's not just women can't vote because they're too dumb to vote. That's not the position. 1.00

00:52:27.920 That's not what either of us are articulating. We're saying, no, leaders should vote. And God

00:52:32.820 has given it to men to be leaders and certain men have abdicated that leadership and therefore they

00:52:37.700 should not have the right to vote either right my uh my wife is ultra competent um and i think that

00:52:46.180 as far as like ability to make judgments goes you know very able to apply available judgments and 1.00

00:52:51.580 all that kind of stuff it has nothing to do with her competency or her essence her humanness her

00:52:55.840 you know image of godness anything like that it is the law order of god for the good

00:53:01.520 of humans yep that men represent their homes amen in the public sphere amen

00:53:07.420 so all right so exodus 18 we went through the six different characteristics um maybe you could work

00:53:15.580 out covetousness maybe you could work out lying but for sure um the fearing god one like even with

00:53:22.140 the loosest standard that we could possibly imagine. It's, it's pretty tough on that one.

00:53:26.920 Right. Especially with statements like, you know, well, I don't ask God for forgiveness. I just,

00:53:31.800 instead, I'm just, you know, a humble guy who's never done anything wrong.

00:53:34.760 I mean, that's, I'm paraphrasing, but that's a bit, you know, he was like, instead, I just like

00:53:40.580 to just not make mistakes, you know? And so there's, you know, and that's just one thing.

00:53:46.240 And, you know, it's in the past, but there's the, the issue of life is issue enough. And now with

00:53:51.540 ivf and all these different things um and not just ivf but i mean you you just had you know

00:53:57.740 you watch the presidential debate and it's basically you know just arguing between should 0.99

00:54:02.480 we let um already born babies um die on stainless steel tables or should we kill them you know a 0.97

00:54:12.760 full a merciful full 60 days prior and that was basically there were your two sides and trump is 0.89

00:54:19.700 i mean because trump is even i mean you know the only thing that he really decried was you know

00:54:25.440 partial birth abortion um what tim walls has passed where six babies i see the five or six

00:54:31.520 actually have died since he passed this legislation in his state where um the doctor can go and talk

00:54:37.840 to the mother and they can have a back and forth while the baby's just sitting there dying out and

00:54:43.500 and if the mother decides uh yeah i don't i don't want the baby even though it was born alive um

00:54:49.020 then uh they can't kill it but they also just make sure not to feed it care for it and it dies

00:54:54.840 um were you aware of that uh law i i am i think i'd heard something the way you've just described

00:55:02.400 it that's uh that's what it is it's all yeah but i mean that's what it is and tim wall's passed

00:55:07.460 that and he's the running mate of kamala harris and so obviously that's and that's a big deal

00:55:12.240 and it's absolutely atrocious and wicked.

00:55:14.100 Yet, at the same time,

00:55:16.920 part of the problem is that I've had to learn about myself.

00:55:21.220 There's fallenness and then there's finitude.

00:55:24.520 So my wife and I, we had a miscarriage.

00:55:27.040 Our first child is in glory.

00:55:30.300 And then we have four children who are with us

00:55:34.160 and one on the way, Lord willing.

00:55:35.860 And if one of my child, I'll freely admit,

00:55:40.440 um i have no problem admitting this because it's true um if one of my four children living and born

00:55:47.440 uh died i you wouldn't see me podcasting or in the like i did just i would be i would just

00:55:56.280 i don't know what i would do i would be absolutely devastated for quite a long time and and um i

00:56:03.820 don't i i would be just trying to do things like brush my teeth in the morning and like just to

00:56:09.460 barely function and get by and just crying out to God, have mercy, have mercy, have mercy, help.

00:56:14.840 I would be so torn up about it. And I was sad with the miscarriage, but not that sad.

00:56:24.320 I did not grieve the miscarriage to the level that I would grieve one of my four living born

00:56:32.840 children dying. And the reason, I would argue, the reason for that is not because the miscarriage

00:56:38.900 that that child somehow had less worth, less dignity, or was even less my child. Fully human,

00:56:45.480 full worth, full dignity, and fully mine. That was my kid. No less mine. But my finitude, part of it

00:56:53.060 may be fallenness and sinfulness, and I'm willing to seriously consider that, and I have. And I'm

00:56:58.120 willing to consider it more. But I think part of it is just my finitude of, I never held that child.

00:57:04.340 I never knew that child. I never heard that child laugh or saw that child cry. The child was nine

00:57:13.760 weeks old at their death. And so my point is, I think there is something to be said for us being

00:57:22.940 aghast and just disgusted by a child on a stainless steel table kicking and crying for

00:57:31.320 its mother and left to die versus IVF. I think there is a difference, not morally, not a moral

00:57:43.020 difference, not an objective difference, but a subjective difference as it pertains to our

00:57:47.580 finitude. And not only, I guess all I'm saying is I wouldn't only exclusively put the fault that we

00:57:54.740 would grieve one more than the other in the category of fallenness that we're sinners. I think

00:57:59.820 sin certainly plays a role, but I don't think it's just sin. I don't think it's just because I'm

00:58:04.060 fallen that I would mourn the death of one of my living children, born children, more than

00:58:08.680 the miscarriage. I think it's also the fact that I'm just, I'm not omniscient. I'm not all,

00:58:14.200 I'm a creature. It's not just that I'm a fallen creature, but I'm also just a creature in the

00:58:19.580 finitude aspect. And so I do think that there's something there that's natural and even right

00:58:25.380 that we would say, and be taken aback by Tim Wall's position

00:58:32.600 and as those kinds of things come up.

00:58:37.860 And yet at the same time, though,

00:58:38.980 I think we need to recognize our finitude and our fallenness

00:58:42.380 and try to disciple ourselves and reorient ourselves

00:58:46.880 and train ourselves that we would care more,

00:58:51.200 that we would care more about the Zyko. 0.70

00:58:55.380 you know, that's frozen, put it on ice and wrongfully incarcerated without trial 0.77

00:59:01.760 and likely to eventually be discarded and flushed. So I'm sympathetic to the person,

00:59:09.660 including myself, that doesn't feel the whore over that, that I feel over the stainless steel 0.94

00:59:16.380 kicking screaming baby that slowly dies um but i recognize that morally um i i should feel the same 0.94

00:59:26.620 and and that some of that is maybe my sinfulness and some of that is a lot of that i think is the

00:59:32.540 finitude um and and so all that being said my point is back to trump um that's part of what i

00:59:37.740 told ben when i was talking to him ben sizloff was i'm willing to admit and i think a lot of

00:59:42.560 pro-Trump Christians aren't. I'm willing to admit that in terms of raw numbers, babies saved,

00:59:49.800 the difference is negligible. It's not like we have a champion force that's going to protect

00:59:57.720 millions of babies. And the other one is the difference of the number of late-term abortions

01:00:04.480 in the seventh, eighth, and ninth month. And as atrocious as it is, even with Tim Walsh and his

01:00:10.840 state, it's five or six babies that have died on the stainless steel table. So in terms of raw

01:00:16.080 numbers, it's not as though a vote for Trump is going to save millions of babies. You're going to

01:00:21.820 have millions over the next four years, unless God does a miracle, millions dead with Kamala

01:00:25.800 and millions dead with Trump. And I'm willing to recognize that. And then back to, okay, and so

01:00:31.700 with that being as it may, being as it is, it's real hard to argue for fear of God.

01:00:38.560 so i'm with you so far i think we're pound for pound

01:00:42.800 i don't think we have a disagreement so far so i think it seems and at the same time there are

01:00:50.080 many other places where again spending appointees appointees to the judicial branch right all this

01:00:57.320 kind of stuff like pragmatically speaking and honestly there might be things that occur that

01:01:01.820 help to you know bolster and encourage certain things um you know where where you could end up

01:01:06.500 with thousands of babies that might have been murdered

01:01:08.740 or whatever not as a result of encouragement and support.

01:01:11.460 So, I mean, there's something that's real.

01:01:14.240 I mean, like the difference between a wicked ruler

01:01:18.460 and a horrifically wicked ruler is a big deal.

01:01:21.080 Right, it matters.

01:01:22.500 And so that spread still matters a lot.

01:01:26.860 But the issue is what are the lawful courses of action

01:01:29.880 that we're allowed to take?

01:01:31.060 Right, I understand.

01:01:32.060 And what do we expect the blessing of God on?

01:01:34.560 and so and so i think i think when we when we think about um you know when we think about that

01:01:41.840 i guess the question is that i'd have for you is so it seems like we're in agreement that it seems

01:01:45.980 like he's missing the mark yep the fear of god so can you talk to me about your uh you know the

01:01:52.080 reasons why you think logically it's a lawful thing to vote for him with that qualification

01:01:57.200 being missed absolutely yeah um so the reason why for me is i think exodus 18 in terms of the general

01:02:03.080 equity of this is the standard, and I agree, we both agree on the standard. So now, the way I see

01:02:09.920 it is we're now discussing the application of this standard. So how does this standard apply?

01:02:16.980 And I see it as our current system here in America is, you know, so for Moses, Jethro gives

01:02:26.160 this counsel, and it's not just counsel, but you're right, it's, this is divinely from God,

01:02:31.160 And Moses heeds it and sees it as such.

01:02:35.980 He sees it as this is God is speaking

01:02:37.760 through my father-in-law Jethro.

01:02:40.100 And so then Moses is commissioning the people.

01:02:42.540 So I like in Exodus 18, I think has many overlaps

01:02:46.020 and similarities to Acts chapter six.

01:02:49.020 And what the apostles do in Jerusalem is they say,

01:02:52.320 it's incumbent upon the people.

01:02:55.320 You go and bring us seven men filled with the Holy Spirit

01:02:58.600 and doubt with wisdom, these kinds of things.

01:03:00.260 and that's where we get Philip, that's where we get Stephen, and there are different standards,

01:03:04.440 although there's a lot of overlap in the characteristic of the standard itself from

01:03:07.980 Exodus 18 and the standard given for the diaconate. I see Acts 6 as a descriptive text where we have

01:03:16.680 the origin of the diaconate within the New Testament church, but that said, there's some

01:03:22.980 differences in the characteristics, but the methodology, the method, the mechanism of

01:03:27.960 of selecting is uh that's where i think there's the most overlap it's the apostles saying you

01:03:34.340 the church you go and find the men now i take it by way of implication um it's not explicitly said

01:03:41.280 in the text but i think it's i think it's it's not a necessary inference but i think it's almost

01:03:46.200 it's pretty heavy it's a heavy implication that uh if if the church for whatever reason because

01:03:51.420 they were, I don't know, immature or whatever reason. If the church brought seven men and

01:03:59.020 six of them are, you know, Philip and Stephen type guys, but one of them is Donald Trump.

01:04:08.180 And, you know, and so they bring the men to the apostles who are also, you know, they kind of

01:04:12.640 have a dual function here because they're seated as elders in this local church in Jerusalem,

01:04:16.820 which was a massive church. And so I take it by way of implication that the church itself finds

01:04:22.920 the men. The congregation is tasked with finding the men, but it's the elders, slash in this case

01:04:28.220 apostles, but elders of the church who are saying a few things. This is what kind of men, also even

01:04:34.720 the timing. The elders choose when the men are needed. We've decided that we need men now. We've

01:04:40.940 decided we need this kind of men. We've decided we need this many. So they also set the parameters,

01:04:46.220 not just for the type of men, the standard, but also how many, we want seven. So not five, not

01:04:51.140 10, seven. But then I think it's implicit that the elders also maintain the right, that if the people

01:04:57.280 bring seven losers back to them, that they'll be able to say, try again. No thanks. Or we'll take

01:05:04.360 six, but this other one, uh-uh. Philip and Stephen are good. These other four are good. But then you

01:05:09.580 brought me donald trump over here uh try again sure that you can do better um in our system

01:05:15.460 and and i think it's very so what i'm trying to say is i think that that is probably

01:05:19.880 and i and i recognize i'm using what's explicit but i'm also inferring what is implicit i think

01:05:26.160 that's similar to the exodus 18 text that the people are tasked to find over tens and fifties

01:05:32.100 and hundreds and thousands um these leaders um moses is you know jethro gives the count god god

01:05:38.520 speaks to Jethro, Jethro speaks to Moses, Moses now speaks to the people, and the people now take

01:05:42.580 upon themselves the task. They've got to bring the guys. But I think that Moses maintained, at least

01:05:48.720 initially, vetoing power would be my position. That Moses maintained, I would infer that from

01:05:54.140 the text, vetoing power. So if one tribe, for instance, let's say the tribe of Benjamin brings 0.64

01:05:58.700 to Moses some solid guys over tens and some solid guys over fifties and hundreds, but then they've

01:06:07.140 got whatever size the tribe was at that time. Let's say the tribe is 12,000, so then 12 guys

01:06:11.780 who are going to be over thousands. And those 12 guys, it's pretty clear that the tribe of Benjamin

01:06:18.060 is colluding with one another, and they bring 12 corrupt, self-serving guys who are going to try 0.77

01:06:25.500 to just make the tribe of Benjamin be able to rip off his brothers, the other tribes. And these 12

01:06:30.480 guys are like mob bosses. They're corrupt. I think Moses would say, try again. No, these guys 1.00

01:06:37.280 don't meet the standard. They don't feel God. Go ahead. I think the scripture, I'm sorry for

01:06:42.460 cutting you off. I think the scripture plainly teaches that there's a dual key, right? It's

01:06:48.840 like launching the nukes. To give a guy power requires the approval of the people and of the

01:06:53.640 existing officers, which is why it says the apostles say, you know, you choose these people

01:06:58.600 and we'll appoint them.

01:06:59.920 That's good.

01:07:00.240 Or Moses in Deuteronomy, a text where he's recounting the same thing.

01:07:05.720 Because in the Exodus text, I was talking to William Wolfe about this.

01:07:11.760 He argued that the people didn't elect.

01:07:13.760 And I said, well, no, the Deuteronomy text does clearly teach that they elect.

01:07:18.240 Because it says Deuteronomy 1.12 says, you know, or 1.13 says,

01:07:23.080 Moses is talking to people.

01:07:24.180 He says, choose wise, understanding, and knowledgeable men from among your tribes.

01:07:28.500 and i will make them heads over you so it's a dual key right right it's it's his appointing

01:07:33.100 and i think that that constitutionally that's the way things are supposed to be

01:07:36.860 as well in terms of the electoral college yeah i was thinking the same thing it's like the people

01:07:41.660 choose but then the electoral college elects right and even in our legislative bodies you

01:07:46.920 have elections and then the legislative bodies are supposed to accept people in right and so

01:07:52.640 they could on grounds of of moral disqualification refuse a person or let's say the people elect a

01:07:58.260 there's an election and then there's an inauguration yeah it's they say the people

01:08:02.740 elect a person who's 20 to the house of representatives the constitution says 25

01:08:05.380 it's a qualification right like and so but the the house and the senate have the right to police

01:08:11.280 their own membership right and that's good so i agree and that and that's so that that idea

01:08:16.480 there's absolutely requires two keys that the people must choose and the rulers must accept

01:08:20.920 right that's good i agree so so with that comparing it to our current system here in america

01:08:26.840 this is what I would say, is you the people, so whether it's the elders, apostles saying it to

01:08:33.260 the Church of Jerusalem to do it with seven men filled with the Spirit, deacons, or whether it's

01:08:37.400 Moses now commissioning Israel, the congregation, to go and do this with heads of tens and fifties

01:08:44.120 and hundreds and thousands. In both scenarios, there's a vetoing mechanism. It has to be twofold.

01:08:50.720 It's the people, but then it's also going to be Moses, where it's the people, and then it's going

01:08:53.420 to be the apostles. Elders are going to then confirm that selection. We just appointed three

01:08:58.740 deacons in our church and ordained them, and the people gave their consent, and we had a

01:09:05.840 congregational vote. And then the elders, we were the ones who actually laid hands, prayed, and

01:09:12.580 ordained. And so it was, yeah, it was both mechanisms working. In our system, I view for

01:09:21.960 a federal presidential election. So I don't have the same view in terms of how this principle,

01:09:27.980 so we both agree on the standard. We're talking about how it applies, how this standard,

01:09:33.420 the general equity of the standard, how is it utilized and applied in our current American

01:09:36.980 system? I don't have this conviction of the application across the board in every local

01:09:43.340 election. Some of this I'd have to give more thought to. I've given particularly a greater

01:09:48.500 degree of thought to this circumstance, because this is where we are right now and what's going

01:09:54.040 on in our times. We have a presidential federal election. The way I would apply the Exodus 18

01:09:59.140 standard is I would apply it to primaries, that in the primaries, the people are tasked to,

01:10:07.320 you bring to us, may the best man win. You bring to us the best men that you can find,

01:10:14.880 the most qualified, with the highest caliber, best character, most gifted, you bring us the

01:10:22.520 best man that you can find. And so I would say that it's incumbent upon the Christian

01:10:27.340 at the level of the primaries in a federal presidential election, at the level of the 0.74

01:10:35.500 primaries before the general, to take the Exodus 18 standard and apply it and make sure that the

01:10:42.980 Christians get together, and the more unity we have, the better, because then we'd actually have 0.83

01:10:46.900 more power to actually get things done if we weren't all fractured with all of our own individual

01:10:52.040 ideas. But if you had all the Christians in this country getting together, applying Exodus 18 0.87

01:10:56.280 in the primary, saying, this is our Exodus 18 guy. And then, of course, that's the guy that we fully 0.56

01:11:03.140 intend to vote for in the general. I would say the Exodus 18 standard applies, the way that it applies

01:11:10.200 is in the primary, making sure that we bring our guy to the table. However, if then our guy,

01:11:17.360 because of Christless Republicanism, you know, or all the rhinos or whatever, because of the 0.51

01:11:24.140 current state of the country being filled with degenerates, even on the conservative side,

01:11:28.600 if for whatever reason, our guy doesn't win the primaries, we get him there, but then he doesn't

01:11:33.800 win the primaries. And then in the general election, it's this other guy. And he doesn't

01:11:38.280 meet the exodus 18 standard and now he's going in for the the gop uh the gop nominee and and then

01:11:46.040 you've got you know a situation like we have now a trump and then a kamala then um i think i think

01:11:53.360 then it's um it's a whole new ball game because you're going here's the deal i what i'm trying

01:11:58.340 to say is this that the the guys who are heads over tens and fifties and hundreds and thousands

01:12:02.500 if they brought him to moses and moses said no my question would be um did those guys still get

01:12:07.320 appointed, or did Moses' no count? Because now that we're at a general election, you and I,

01:12:14.720 our no doesn't count. If we say, uh-uh, like we tried in the primaries to bring an Exodus 18

01:12:20.780 qualified guy, you didn't like our guy, you gave us Trump instead, but he doesn't meet the

01:12:26.620 Exodus 18 standard, and because of that, we're saying no. We're standing in as Moses now,

01:12:32.340 and we're going to try to practice the vetoing power

01:12:35.000 and we say no, what's going to happen?

01:12:38.800 We know what's going to happen.

01:12:40.780 One of those two people is still going to be president.

01:12:44.240 We don't get vetoing power. 0.65

01:12:46.800 That's not the way our system works. 0.88

01:12:48.200 Our system doesn't work the way that it worked in Israel. 0.94

01:12:51.320 But like the people could bring and Moses could say,

01:12:53.800 uh-uh, this guy doesn't meet the standards done.

01:12:55.520 Or in Acts, you know, the people could bring

01:12:57.400 in the book of Acts seven men and one of them doesn't.

01:13:00.480 And the apostles say, no, he doesn't meet the, in this case, we tried, we tried to bring our guy, an Exodus 18, you know, guy in the primaries, and then we lose. And now there's going to be a general election with no, only two candidates and neither of them meet Exodus 18.

01:13:16.940 so and and and one of them will be president the option the third option it's not just kamala trump

01:13:23.740 or third party or uh or voting you know uh down the ballot but leaving the top blank in order to

01:13:30.420 send a message which i understand that strategy sending you know holding your vote hostage saying

01:13:34.140 you have to earn my vote i get it i get all the arguments i get it and i i even have some measure

01:13:38.640 of of appreciation and respect for it but but in real terms you can do all those things but you're

01:13:45.080 still going to get Kamala or Trump. We don't get to say no. Not in our system. And so for me,

01:13:49.920 one of them is going to be president. And so this is what I told Ben, and I'm sure you'll have a

01:13:55.200 somewhat similar answer, but what if, let's just say hypothetically, what if we get, it's already

01:13:59.040 bad, but what if we get to the point in America, God forbid, hopefully there's revival before then,

01:14:03.720 but what if we get to the point in America where one candidate, so they're both all the way up 0.69

01:14:10.020 full-term abortion. But the other candidate says, we think we're overpopulated, and so

01:14:15.400 all Hebrew boys under the age of two, you know, but like, all American boys, or let's say it's

01:14:28.300 not all. Let's say it's, we think we're overpopulated, and so it's not just going to be 0.63

01:14:32.340 boys. It's going to be boys and girls under the age of five. We just had a baby boom, and we're

01:14:36.640 already overpopulated and um and so one of the policies that i'm running on is um is that we're 1.00

01:14:42.660 going to cull the population and uh we're going to take it can even be just christian families 0.91

01:14:47.920 you make make it as bad as you want right we're gonna go every single child under five years old 1.00

01:14:51.960 and especially the christians we're only the christians we're gonna uh we're gonna take them 1.00

01:14:55.480 we're gonna kill them um and i've got children in my household under five um and then the other 1.00

01:15:03.680 one says, that's atrocious. Meanwhile, this person's fine with partial birth abortions where 1.00

01:15:09.960 the baby's head is sticking out of the mom and you're bashing it with a hammer or injecting it

01:15:15.340 with a syringe, which is insane. That is insane. It's wicked, absolutely wicked. I'll vote for that 0.51

01:15:23.740 guy doing that terrible, wicked thing to save my kids, my born kids. Because the abortion, here's 0.99

01:15:30.460 thing. Abortion is murder. It's molek worship. It's just, you know, different time, different 1.00

01:15:35.320 name for the god, but it's still, it's human sacrifice. It is sacrifice. Sacrifice to the

01:15:40.560 god of self, sacrifice to convenience, and you could argue even further than that, not just

01:15:44.300 sacrifice to gods of convenience, and certainly the god of free, unmitigated sexual immorality.

01:15:50.760 That's one of the biggest gods. But beyond that, I also think it is very much a human sacrifice

01:15:55.940 and worship of demons, because the demons are still around. They go by different names today,

01:15:59.660 and people, but it is still very much, so it is demon worship. And I'm fully on board for all

01:16:04.440 that and calling it what it is. And again, the difference between Trump and Kamala on the issue

01:16:07.920 of life and numbers of babies saved is negligible. Trump is pro-abortion. He's pro-abortion. You

01:16:15.740 can't even call him pro-life at this point. He is pro-abortion. So then my question is, okay,

01:16:20.680 so that issue, which is over my lifetime has always been the issue. I've always been a single

01:16:25.000 issue voter. That has been the issue. But that issue is now a wash because both candidates are

01:16:30.780 so absolutely atrocious and terrible. It's just death or death. So for the first time in my life,

01:16:38.840 all of this is novel for me. And so I very much could be wrong, but I'm thinking through things

01:16:45.080 that I've never thought before because for the first time I'm having, voting has been relatively

01:16:49.260 easy. It's just, hey, which person doesn't murder babies, right? That's pretty easy. Well, now that

01:16:54.240 everybody murders babies. I'm looking at different issues that I've never looked at before. And one

01:17:00.600 of the big ones is I'm looking at immigration. And I'm looking at, can we sustain another four 1.00

01:17:08.620 years of another 20, and that's just what we've counted, another 20 million, arguably maybe 30 or 0.99

01:17:14.260 40 million immigrants, many illegal, most illegal. And then out of those who are illegal, many

01:17:22.260 uh, criminals, uh, 13,000, I think with the data that just came back, 13,000 were murderers who

01:17:28.980 crossed it, were allowed to cross the border. And not just that, but we know from multiple cities

01:17:35.460 in our, our Republic, um, are outright saying they will not require any ID for voting in a

01:17:43.380 national election. They will not require a driver's, not even a driver's license because

01:17:47.420 it's racist and voter suppression. Cause we all know that, you know, black people can't figure 1.00

01:17:51.160 out how to get a driver's license right i mean democrats have always been the real racist of 0.99

01:17:56.520 course somehow that sounds more racist than it's of course they're always that's the irony they're 0.91

01:18:02.240 always more racist i believe actually that black people can get a driver's license you know so 0.93

01:18:07.700 anyways but but with all those things adding up you criminals flooding across the border illegal 0.85

01:18:11.920 immigration opening the border far and wide 20 million already 20 to 30 million more maybe 40

01:18:17.840 million if we get four more years with Kamala, the borders are, and all these different cities

01:18:23.040 and more by the day following suit to say we won't require any ID in order to vote in our elections.

01:18:28.200 There's a very real possibility we never win another election again. This is it. We can never

01:18:34.560 win. We just don't have the numbers. We've lost at a sheer level of numbers games. And then it's

01:18:41.480 just a continued flood into the country. Natural-born citizens can't even get jobs because 1.00

01:18:48.000 the only jobs available don't pay living wages because we've decided the GDP must go up and 1.00

01:18:54.220 we've taken all the free and cheap labor from Mexico and El Salvador and Cuba and all these

01:19:01.880 other different countries, not to mention the murderers and criminals. So now I live in a border

01:19:06.680 state, Texas, the Republic of Texas, and my wife and daughters are in jeopardy. They're at a park

01:19:13.880 and there's an increased risk factor to their physical safety because there are literal

01:19:20.680 murders who have crossed the border and are in my state. And I'm thinking about these things and

01:19:26.140 I'm thinking Exodus 18 primaries, you bring your guy, but our country said no. And now it's down

01:19:34.780 to two guys, neither one meets the standard, but I don't actually have a, I don't get to say no.

01:19:40.120 I don't get to veto both of these guys. I don't, our system doesn't function that way. I don't get

01:19:44.460 to come in and say, sorry, Trump and Kamala, neither one meets the standard. Try again. I

01:19:48.760 don't get to do that. One of them will be president. And, and so now you can call it lesser of two

01:19:54.600 evils. You can call it whatever, you know, whatever, whatever label we want to use. But yeah, that

01:20:01.400 would be, once it becomes the general, national, and especially a general national presidential

01:20:07.980 election, at that point, I would say that the Christian, it is permissible, and I almost even

01:20:15.420 want to say obligatory, but I will at least say permissible for the Christian to wield their vote 0.92

01:20:22.180 in the direction of mitigating as much harm as possible, saying there's this much harm, 0.84

01:20:28.440 and there's this much harm is on the ballot

01:20:30.640 and then this much harm is on the ballot

01:20:32.020 and I'm gonna stop the difference.

01:20:34.200 I'm gonna use my vote to stop,

01:20:37.660 to mitigate that additional harm that would happen

01:20:40.780 if we got commentators.

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01:22:08.680 America is a country that was founded for the purpose of allowing Christians to do their duty

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01:23:27.060 So I think on a basic level, I believe that obedience to God brings blessings

01:23:34.260 and disobedience to God brings curses. And I think that if we, first of all,

01:23:41.100 believe that Donald Trump is going to save us from the troubles or whatever,

01:23:44.640 and we sin in order to get him into office,

01:23:48.300 we are trusting in the arm of the flesh so that we can trust in princes.

01:23:53.440 I think if we say God's law is perfect,

01:23:57.940 we're either going to be able to make an argument that demonstrates from God's law

01:24:01.460 the lawfulness of going to a lower standard in certain circumstances,

01:24:07.780 or we're going to say, oh, the law of God doesn't have that.

01:24:12.960 And therefore, we're not allowed.

01:24:15.680 And so if this, if scripture warrant is needed, right?

01:24:21.680 If we're going, we believe that scripture is sufficient to teach us all the things we

01:24:25.520 ought to do in the political sphere, and I confess that, then I'm going to say, I can't

01:24:32.600 find that argument.

01:24:34.280 I think what we find is when they persecute you in one town, flee to the other, that's

01:24:40.040 That's what Jesus teaches to his disciples in a scenario where they have insufficient force to defend themselves.

01:24:47.440 We have the approved example of Purim, which is to covenant together.

01:24:52.480 Christians need to form civil covenants where they mutually train and swear to defend each other.

01:24:57.580 And we need to be forming those.

01:24:59.080 We need to be forming those locally.

01:25:00.560 We need to be forming those across different spaces and having those covenanted bodies covenant together.

01:25:08.020 And so I think the idea of a Purim-style resistance is what the Second Amendment is about.

01:25:14.360 And so I think that that's one thing, also lesser magistracies.

01:25:19.220 And then the other thing is we use the prophetic voice to resist, and we pray.

01:25:25.060 So we pray, we use the prophetic voice, we flee.

01:25:29.560 Your book, Fight by Flight, is essentially teaching the principle of flight, which is strategic retreat.

01:25:38.700 And then there's fighting.

01:25:40.900 And I want to say what we need to be doing is to be applying the law of God and refusing to vote for unqualified men and seeking to organize.

01:25:50.860 And I think that the problem is that we all kind of just want an easy answer

01:25:58.060 for like what can I do right now to assuage my conscience

01:26:00.540 and then move on to the next thing.

01:26:02.560 And what I'm saying is the presidential election is unworthy of any of our time

01:26:06.200 or thought, and that the only reason it's worthy of our time or thought

01:26:11.000 is to help to avoid the idolatry, the state-olatry, the prince worship

01:26:15.780 that generally is occurring, and to push people to stop worrying about it

01:26:20.800 and to go build something locally.

01:26:23.780 And that, in fact, the cheating, the shipping in of votes,

01:26:29.120 the printing of votes, the whatever, all that stuff,

01:26:33.420 makes it so that the effect of the individual is insignificant

01:26:37.980 in terms of their vote.

01:26:39.100 and um and so what matters most is what can you do to honor god i would suggest this is sort of

01:26:47.500 like this is like the are we going to pinch incense uh you know into the fire you know to to

01:26:55.260 honor to honor caesar right this is a this is it's insignificant i think that one is different

01:27:00.740 to be fair i hear what you're saying and you're making a lot of great points um i think the pinch

01:27:05.400 of incense because i've seen some guys liking it to that and my pushback on that would be uh that

01:27:10.140 the pinch of incense wasn't just political and it wasn't just paying homage to caesar but it was

01:27:14.680 worship you know yeah it's not a one-to-one i i want christians understand i don't believe a vote

01:27:21.240 is a sacrament i don't believe that um a vote is any more holy um not to say it's not holy

01:27:29.380 because i'd like to you know knock down a little bit of that wall between the secular and the

01:27:33.740 sacred but um a vote is you know it's it's no more holy than um than if you're a soldier uh each

01:27:41.320 bullet in the chamber is holy uh you send the bullet um in order to to get a job done to make

01:27:48.600 a difference and and you cast a ballot um but it's not but it's not holy um like a sacrament

01:27:56.160 it's not um it's not sacred in that sense whereas the pensions i think was i think that that was

01:28:02.780 religious sure so it's not an element of worship it's not a sign and seal the covenant of grace

01:28:07.640 i'm not trying to suggest that but it is a it is an act that has political expediency that would be

01:28:12.860 sin is what i was trying to that's the point of analogy i'm trying to make right so i agree with

01:28:16.580 everything you just said but i would say that that how we govern is or an ordinance of god

01:28:20.780 it's not a sacrament but it's an ordinance of god and and bullets flying from a a soldier's gun

01:28:26.020 you know if you shoot if you're a soldier on the battlefield and you shoot unlawful targets

01:28:31.120 because you think it has a tactical advantage.

01:28:33.480 That would be sin.

01:28:37.260 You've got two towns, one you're at war with, one you're not,

01:28:39.840 and you find destroying the town you're not at war with

01:28:41.920 will give you strategic advantages

01:28:43.840 to be able to then destroy the town you're at war with.

01:28:46.080 That would be wickedness.

01:28:47.120 It would be murder.

01:28:48.040 And so the way I would liken it, 0.54

01:28:50.560 where you shoot the bullets matters.

01:28:53.440 There's an ordinance of God that governs who we're allowed to shoot,

01:28:56.160 and there's an ordinance of God that governs who we're allowed to vote for.

01:28:58.420 And so in that way, everything should be done to the glory of God.

01:29:01.340 And so everything should be holy in that sense.

01:29:04.540 But I do agree the difference between worship versus not worship.

01:29:10.020 We glorify God in all of life.

01:29:11.880 Worship is a distinct, you know, we have set apart times of worship.

01:29:14.860 So you can say that all of life is worship in the sense that we're supposed to serve God in all of life.

01:29:20.080 But there is a distinction between set apart times and not set apart times.

01:29:23.160 So I agree with all that. 0.97

01:29:24.580 So I just, I want to say, you know, is there, if I were pushing you, brother, and just said, what's the ordinate, what's the scripture warrant?

01:29:33.740 Like, make an argument for me that I have a duty to vote for Donald Trump as opposed to writing in Pastor Webin.

01:29:42.360 Pastor Webin won't win.

01:29:45.280 So the argument that I would make is we both agree on the standard.

01:29:49.480 The argument that I'm making is, you know, you said, well, you'd have to show me from the

01:29:53.480 scripture another standard or lesser standard. And what I'm saying, that's not my argument.

01:30:00.160 I agree with you that I think Exodus 18 is the standard for civil rulers.

01:30:05.840 What I'm saying is, I don't think that the standard applies. So I'm not trying to change

01:30:10.260 the standard or lower the standard. That is the standard. And I'm perfectly willing to admit that

01:30:15.120 currently we have two candidates, and neither one meets the standard. My point is simply to say that

01:30:20.340 that is the standard, and that's what we should have in mind as our bar, as Christians, as we seek

01:30:26.500 to get in every office, locally especially, because that's where we have the most power,

01:30:31.040 locally working with your city council and all these different things, but then even at a federal

01:30:35.840 level and, you know, with presidentially, trying to get someone who meets that standard

01:30:42.340 of Exodus 18. However, once we get to a general election, you've got two people. One of them is

01:30:49.580 going to be it. And I think that there is a general biblical argument to be made for loving

01:30:58.900 our neighbor with whatever power we do have, be it great or be it small, whatever power we do have

01:31:08.400 at our disposal to ensuring that my neighbor is not defrauded, stolen from, murdered, raped,

01:31:14.980 those kinds of things. If I can make sure that my neighbor in a country where all my neighbors,

01:31:24.200 including myself, are already overtaxed, which is theft, and inflation, which is another form

01:31:30.500 of theft, it is taxation. It's the government prints these dollars so that they can justify

01:31:37.840 the taxes and then you just pay taxes on the other side. And so if my neighbor's being robbed

01:31:43.980 and my neighbor's potentially going to be raped and my neighbor's potentially going to be murdered

01:31:49.420 and I have, within my power, God has providentially provided for me an ability to stem that tide

01:31:59.780 that I can ensure that my neighbor is robbed less and that my neighbor is hopefully less of my

01:32:07.740 neighbors are murdered, um, and those kinds of things, then I, I feel like I have a duty as a

01:32:13.640 Christian, um, to, to, to utilize the power that I have, the ability that I have, um, to ensure my

01:32:23.580 neighbor's well-being. Like, I mean, honestly, that, that would be my argument. My argument would

01:32:27.660 be a love, love thy neighbor argument. Um, indeed, uh, love my, my tangible neighbor and his tangible

01:32:35.040 well-being and uh and i feel like right now with this election um we have christians have an

01:32:41.640 opportunity uh to to love their neighbors or to stand by and uh and watch their neighbors um

01:32:49.520 watch a boot on their neighbor's face stomping it into the curb um and setting the stage through

01:32:56.720 immigration and voting mechanisms to where um the boot may never come back off to where the neighbor

01:33:02.280 actually uh may never may never be free again um i think it's that serious i think i think if you

01:33:11.940 were arguing with a liberal and they put forward that sort of love argument for some sort of a

01:33:16.920 welfare state or or or some sort of you know other thing that you believe is an unlawful exercise of

01:33:23.740 government that you you have you have jurisdictional and law order arguments for

01:33:27.980 and you'd say well there's a better way and we should look to the blessing of god and we should

01:33:31.560 rely upon you know uh the lawful means well no i think what i would do is i would say i i wouldn't

01:33:36.960 just say there's a better way we should uh we should love our neighbor through god's jurisdiction

01:33:40.840 or what it wouldn't be that i hear what you're saying but i it would also be just on the merits

01:33:46.580 of if it was welfare for instance as a liberal i would say it's not loving what you're describing

01:33:51.340 is another definition of love so it's not just god hasn't permitted me to love my neighbor through

01:33:56.560 that mechanism it's no on its face it's not loving it's theft what you are calling love for

01:34:04.040 one neighbor is enablement um and and it's stealing from all these other neighbors over here

01:34:11.240 it's actually it is objectively definitively uh not loving neighbors that that's why that's the

01:34:18.340 argument i would make with a liberal is like well i'm just looking out for these this you know this

01:34:22.860 17-year-old girl who's not ready to be a mom, you know, and has to fly on a, you know, a charted

01:34:28.540 flight paid by Governor Gavin Newsom with, you know, paid lodging for the weekend and gets to

01:34:32.860 visit the Pacific Ocean as she also has the procedure, you know, paid for by tax dollars 1.00

01:34:37.520 to rip the child out of her womb. And I'm like, first, like, cry me a river. That doesn't sound 0.60

01:34:42.640 like that much of a sob story. You're just saying now, because of Roe being overturned, that, you

01:34:46.980 know, certain young girls will have to have a free vacation to California as they get an abortion.

01:34:51.860 So one, you're really having a hard time

01:34:54.740 playing on my sympathies.

01:34:55.860 And two, that's not loving. 0.99

01:34:58.380 You're killing a baby. 0.99

01:34:59.260 You're killing a baby. 1.00

01:35:00.840 So that would be my pushback 0.99

01:35:02.500 is I would just say,

01:35:03.480 no, no, that argument won't work

01:35:05.700 because what you're advocating isn't loving.

01:35:07.920 But in this case, what I'm advocating,

01:35:09.600 we can debate whether it's through a lawful mechanism.

01:35:12.780 I hear you on that.

01:35:14.680 And there's a legitimate argument to be made.

01:35:16.560 But what I'm arguing for is,

01:35:18.200 literally I'm arguing for less rape,

01:35:19.880 less murder, less theft. Those things are objectively loving.

01:35:25.860 Yeah. The welfare thing too, like if a person's hungry, feeding them is objectively an act of

01:35:30.740 love. It's just the mechanism you use it by. It's obviously not abortion or whatever else,

01:35:35.520 but like with the welfare state, like giving people money who are, you know, quote in need,

01:35:39.960 you know, we, we believe that there's times when you need to give people a handout, right? Like,

01:35:44.100 Like, there's times when you give people things that they didn't pay for.

01:35:49.060 Now, doing it voluntarily through institutions that are not the state, you know, those are things that are different there, right, about it.

01:35:57.380 And so I think it is a law-order process type of argument.

01:36:00.760 And so that's what I'm saying, that by voting for an unqualified person, we are usurping authority over our neighbor and imposing upon them wicked rulers. 0.75

01:36:09.560 And if all Christians just did something different, like if we selected a different person to write in, then Donald Trump would certainly lose, and maybe Kamala Harris would win. 0.86

01:36:24.560 But I'll tell you what, the Republican Party would start kowtowing to their Christians. 0.90

01:36:29.360 And that's a pragmatic argument, but that's just one thing. 0.96

01:36:33.580 There's the pragmatics.

01:36:34.760 I think God's law is more pragmatic. 0.77

01:36:36.100 But also, even if that's not the case, we don't want to go rely upon Assyria or rely upon Egypt to keep us safe.

01:36:48.660 We don't want to put our trust in princes.

01:36:51.760 We do what God's law tells us.

01:36:54.040 And I'm saying God's law gives to us a limiter on the types of men that we are authorized to vote for.

01:37:01.260 We may not go further than lowering the bar by the standard that's given to us here.

01:37:07.020 We're not given any approved examples or necessary inferences that we can show,

01:37:10.900 here's a time when we can vote for a man who is inferior to that.

01:37:14.860 And I'm saying we have the right in, and we should do it.

01:37:17.520 We should pray that God would use it.

01:37:18.720 May God raise up some rich Christian man with the resources to start advocating for a qualified Christian man.

01:37:24.980 Those are the kinds of things.

01:37:26.220 But our failures to properly prepare are not an excuse to sin.

01:37:30.860 I hear what you're saying.

01:37:32.640 If every Christian withheld their vote, 1.00

01:37:35.260 you're right. 1.00

01:37:37.100 Republicans would,

01:37:40.220 the GOP would get the message 0.61

01:37:41.820 and absolutely want to kowtow to Christians.

01:37:47.040 But in 2028, 0.90

01:37:49.540 you would have,

01:37:51.900 the Democrats would have an additional

01:37:54.720 30 to 40 million more voters.

01:37:56.300 and however many local ballot machines they can manage to get control over whatever i mean

01:38:03.180 four more years 20 million four more years 30 40 million um you're done and god god is sovereign

01:38:12.480 you know he can win by many or by few that's not my might nor by power but by my spirit says the

01:38:18.460 lord and it just may be god's will that america's done i mean we we don't deserve to not be done

01:38:24.720 we totally i mean with all of our our offenses and all of our disobedience and all of our rebellion

01:38:31.540 all our idolatry and all of our baby murder and all i mean that just that just might be the plan

01:38:37.660 you know we don't guess at the sovereign will of god you know but it could be that just we're done

01:38:42.060 we're past the point of no return and that's how it's going to go um because if every if every

01:38:47.020 christian withholds their vote kamala will win um and then yeah that sends a giant message to the

01:38:52.640 gop but uh 2028 i just looking at the numbers looking at the data it's too late um the gop

01:38:59.500 if god wanted if god wanted to could he could could god cause people to rally around a writing

01:39:04.640 candidate and could that result in a writing candidate winning could god do it yeah is he

01:39:11.360 capable of course yeah so if if that's the lawful means open to us however small the chance we think

01:39:18.760 it might work, you know, that's what we should do, right? I think I hear the Lord from saving

01:39:22.760 by many or by few, and therefore we should do our duty regardless. And the other thing is,

01:39:27.380 this could result in civil war, it could result in secession, it could whatever,

01:39:30.280 like however the Lord does any of these things. That's what I'm betting on is succession.

01:39:35.200 So I'm not saying that we just like, just withhold your vote, no, write in a qualified

01:39:41.600 man and and i'm i'm just going to start the the right in you know pastor joel webin uh

01:39:47.680 campaign so so but that but that but that right there uh the right in and then secondarily we

01:39:54.880 we we we we build things we prepare to resist we covenant with each other and perhaps i imagine

01:40:03.440 some people listening to this just a few of them maybe uh might think that the federal government

01:40:08.640 is past the point of saving and all it is is really a time game of how long until it overreaches

01:40:15.500 into absolute tyranny. And for those people, if you already believe that, then the other thing

01:40:27.040 you might also believe is that there is widespread cheating. And if you already believe there's

01:40:31.860 widespread cheating, then conscientiously do what's right and rely upon the blessing of God,

01:40:39.880 and then do all the other stuff, because your vote for president is one of the most insignificant

01:40:43.080 things that you do. Do all the other stuff. Build locally. I'm with you on all the other stuff,

01:40:49.120 for sure. You're absolutely right about that. I get lesser magistrates at a very local level.

01:40:53.260 So I appreciate you letting me voice all of that and letting me push you on the scripture warrant.

01:40:59.140 And if there's anything else, I'm super interested in hearing anything else about the Scripture warrant for what you think would be the reason for backing off for the list.

01:41:06.660 For me, it's just application.

01:41:07.520 I agree on the standard.

01:41:08.520 I think that's the standard set forth in Scripture, Exodus 18.

01:41:11.060 I think it is the standard for civil rulers.

01:41:13.880 And I think the general equity of fearing God is fearing God.

01:41:17.680 So all those things I agree on.

01:41:19.220 And the only, basically, exception that I'm carving out

01:41:24.200 is I'm saying, not in terms of what the standard is,

01:41:28.160 but how the standards apply.

01:41:30.120 And I think that the standard applies to the primaries

01:41:33.580 and doing everything we can to get

01:41:35.120 a biblically qualified man on the docket.

01:41:39.040 But then once it comes down to two,

01:41:41.640 and your Exodus 18 guy has been knocked out, 0.99

01:41:45.260 and both of these two guys suck, 0.96

01:41:47.260 but one is noticeably worse for your neighbors than the others, 1.00

01:41:51.100 then I think it's permissible for a Christian

01:41:53.440 to mitigate disaster in love of neighbor.

01:41:57.760 Can I ask one more thing before you gently give me the left foot?

01:42:04.560 No, no, no.

01:42:05.640 No, it's fine.

01:42:06.480 It's fine.

01:42:07.700 You're a friend.

01:42:08.960 I did the same thing with Ben.

01:42:10.160 I've done the same thing with others.

01:42:11.580 I think it's worth talking about because, honestly,

01:42:14.120 we do we we need to think about these things we've got to think about these things and maybe

01:42:19.860 i'm wrong um but we've got to this is the big question that every christian is asking

01:42:24.160 so it's good to talk so so is so if you were trying to find some text like a place where

01:42:31.900 you could argue regarding anything not just directly in the civil magistrate but like if

01:42:36.140 we deal with any moral standard and we go like you know you shall not commit adultery or you

01:42:41.140 shall not murder like with murder we go i can find exceptions for when i'm allowed to kill

01:42:44.700 right i can demonstrate just warfare i can demonstrate self-defense i can demonstrate

01:42:48.980 public public justice right uh so so i go okay and the word for you know you shall not murder

01:42:54.280 it's actually it really is kill like it's it's it's not a word that only means murder when you

01:42:58.300 look at all the usages of it it really there are cases where the word is used to refer to justified

01:43:03.600 killings so it's not like translating it murder helps to get the meaning across to an english

01:43:07.260 reader. That's fine. But the word is a broader word. And so it's really, the general rule is

01:43:11.380 don't kill. Here are the lawful exceptions. It's a righteous thing to kill somebody in self-defense.

01:43:15.600 It's a righteous thing to kill in public justice in some cases. And it's a righteous thing to kill 0.93

01:43:18.860 in just warfare, right? So you do that. You find the exceptions. You know, with you shall not

01:43:24.020 commit adultery, you don't find exceptions to that one. You might say, well, we have like sexual

01:43:30.780 laws that make it so we have laws of affinity and consanguinity. And we can find an exception to

01:43:35.440 that with the leverate marriages, where there's this allowance for a person to get married to a

01:43:42.300 person who's prohibited by the laws of affinity ordinarily, you know, in the event of the death

01:43:47.080 of a brother or whatever. So you go, okay, so you've got these kinds of places where you have

01:43:50.940 the worked out exceptions in the law. Is there anything where you can see like a, here's this

01:43:56.620 rule, but when your choices are limited, you can now choose this thing that would ordinarily be

01:44:02.920 sin. Anything you'd want to push on about that? No, I think that there are different systems.

01:44:12.860 You can have a monarchy. And in a monarchy, the people depend. There are different variants. But

01:44:19.100 let's say the people don't get a vote, and it's through this familial line. And you get some king

01:44:26.640 who is good. He dies. His son is, you know, his son is a tool and wicked and evil. And he becomes

01:44:34.620 king. You know, the people don't have any mechanism. They can eventually, you know,

01:44:38.920 there is, you know, the mechanism of resistance or fleeing, like we talked about before, but

01:44:43.340 there was no way to mitigate that disaster in terms of, they didn't have a vote. They just,

01:44:48.760 they don't have a vote and um you know but in our system we actually have we actually have at our

01:44:57.900 disposal a power of saying um yeah i'm gonna save a few albeit a few babies um a lot uh you know i

01:45:08.820 would argue billions if not potentially even trillions of dollars being added um to the debt

01:45:13.820 But another, I mean, another big one is like World War III, Lebanon, Israel, Iran.

01:45:24.380 I mean, I've heard now that American boots are officially on the ground in Lebanon.

01:45:31.840 That happened just this last Sunday.

01:45:35.720 War is right on the edge, right on the edge.

01:45:40.100 And man, nothing brings war faster 1.00

01:45:44.420 than a weak woman as the leader of the free world. 1.00

01:45:49.940 You might as well just sound an alarm 1.00

01:45:51.820 to every dictator and every thug across the globe

01:45:55.480 and say, four free years for terror.

01:45:59.520 Four free years, go for it.

01:46:02.240 The time is ripe.

01:46:04.960 There's a reason Putin didn't invade Ukraine under Trump.

01:46:09.080 there's a reason why uh the abraham accords and all these different things you know and it's

01:46:13.660 complicated but like i mean trump should have been up for a nobel peace prize just for um

01:46:18.580 his foreign policy aside from taxes and aside from so even just getting aside from the immigration

01:46:24.920 and the danger to wives and to children and the taxes and the theft like even i yeah i just i

01:46:30.620 struggle to see here's a mechanism a trigger that i can pull and potentially save thousands

01:46:39.440 tens of thousands hundreds of thousands millions of lives potentially around the world love all

01:46:45.080 these neighbors here at home which the order of mores that's my first obligation but then even

01:46:50.840 abroad, I can, I helping with it, you know, the, the debt and national debt helping with

01:46:59.580 at every single level. It's like, I don't know. It's just crazy to think that

01:47:06.120 the difference in this election is so, to me is so stark. I'm not that old, but I've been around

01:47:15.360 long enough to look at, you know, different elections. And other than 2020, I think this one

01:47:21.060 is, um, I think 2020 was the election of our lifetime and it was stolen. And then this is, um,

01:47:29.680 this is, this is the one that's basically just trying to clean up the spill. Like, you know,

01:47:35.680 and, um, so I, I don't know. I don't know how to answer your question. All I don't know. I just

01:47:41.260 think, you bring the candidates to Moses, but what do you do when Moses gives you the standard

01:47:51.380 from Jethro? The people, you're the people, Israel, you go and you pick these guys, but other people,

01:47:59.520 your neighbors in Israel, they pick, you know, you pick one guy that's Exodus 18, they pick two guys

01:48:04.520 that aren't, and then you bring them to Moses, and Moses says, your guy's out, and it's these

01:48:12.580 two guys left, neither one meets the standard, and then Moses turns it to you and says, what do you

01:48:17.960 think? I just don't see it like Exodus 18. I think the general equity of the standard applies across

01:48:27.980 the board for civil rules but the system and its application is completely different in my opinion

01:48:36.040 sure so i think the general the general election the people are bringing people

01:48:40.280 you know to the electoral college and electoral college is fulfilling the moses role right and i

01:48:46.000 think that they should refuse and they should just you know they should just vote you in and

01:48:50.060 and so if that's if that's if you know if we can get the electoral college to do that uh that would

01:48:55.200 be a big win and um and so i think that i understand what you're saying and i really

01:49:01.220 um appreciate the opportunity to uh to to present on that other side and i think that

01:49:08.340 we need to remember that when we are stuck with wicked rulers that we have the options of

01:49:14.560 the prophetic voice prayer resistance fleeing and i think that we need to be consolidating

01:49:21.820 and we need to be studying Vindicii Contra Tyrannos

01:49:26.900 and National Covenanting by Brian Schwartley

01:49:30.360 and Divine Right of Resistance by Philip Kaiser,

01:49:34.340 and we need to be organizing

01:49:36.000 and we need to be recognizing the fact

01:49:38.700 that we are, across the next 20 years,

01:49:41.860 there's either going to be a communist stamp down

01:49:44.340 of the church in the United States

01:49:45.520 or there's going to be a right-wing pendulum swing.

01:49:48.440 And in either case, tyrannical power 0.97

01:49:50.680 is going to be a problem.

01:49:51.820 And as a church, we need to be organizing and discipling because within about a 20-year period, we're having way more kids than other people are.

01:49:59.920 And I think there's going to be a significant shift in the power spectrum.

01:50:02.880 So we've got a 20-year window of worrying about a fascist swing and a communistic swing and figuring out how do we restrain that wickedness and whether that's what we have to organize around. 0.98

01:50:16.240 And so that's what I'm concerned about, and I want to see localized centers of power organized with Christians building those out. 0.91

01:50:24.540 So economics, church, political, and I think that this is – there's going to be a right-wing pendulum swing or a communistic takeover. 0.81

01:50:37.020 However, if we as Christians can avoid that and somehow see the application of biblical rule or restraint of that in the interim across that period, I think we make it through a 20-year period of time, we will have a significantly different electorate if we can try to be organizing around seeing Christian power put into place.

01:51:01.140 without an explicitly christian civil government though we are just we're just waiting to have the

01:51:07.060 curse magnify enough to be destroyed yeah so that's that's that that's that's where i would

01:51:11.680 go just now i think that so i thank you for talking about that and maybe everybody will

01:51:16.200 work with us to start building those powers up amen all right well mr reese thanks for coming

01:51:20.180 on the show this has been um helpful and insightful you provided um i think strong

01:51:25.920 arguments and i appreciate it i still plan on voting for uh donald j trump but um but i appreciate

01:51:33.440 it and i i think you know from our listeners you probably will win a few a few of our listeners

01:51:38.580 over so well done thanks for having me on and i appreciate your honesty and willingness to

01:51:44.660 argue through stuff and uh and lord bless you thanks

01:51:55.920 We need...

The NXR Podcast - October 21, 2024

THE INTERVIEW - Christian Unity While Disagreeing About Donald Trump

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