The NXR Podcast - THE INTERVIEW - Developing Stomachs For Revival with Charles Haywood

00:00:00.000 All right, welcome to another episode of Theology Applied. I am your host, Pastor Joel Webin with

00:00:03.820 Right Response Ministries. We're glad to have you with us. In this episode, I'm welcoming back now

00:00:08.140 a returning guest. It is his second appearance on our show, and that's Charles Haywood. He is

00:00:13.740 the maximum leader of The Worthy House. He writes lots of book reviews. He's a prolific reader,

00:00:20.000 very well read, and has some very fascinating insights, most of which I tend to agree with.

00:00:27.860 I think he's a good thinker, and he usually kind of just really is conveying his theological,

00:00:33.800 but mostly political and cultural thoughts under the thin veil, the guise of book reviews.

00:00:41.780 And he definitely deals with the books that he's reviewing, but a lot of it is saying,

00:00:46.180 and this is what we should probably do today. This is what we should probably do today.

00:00:50.660 He makes a lot of fascinating predictions. Sometimes he's wrong. A lot of times he's right.

00:00:55.140 And so we're going to have a fascinating conversation today about the right and our aversion to wielding power and how we will not win so long as we hold to that position.

00:01:09.960 If power is icky, it's not going to work. And we talk about the masculine and the feminine. And

00:01:14.840 part of the reason there's an aversion to power is because of, there actually is, part of it is 1.00

00:01:21.360 there actually is still a healthy feminine impulse with women on the right. On the left, all these 1.00

00:01:28.020 women, they're not feminine anymore. They're butch. They're pretending to be men. And so they 1.00

00:01:33.520 don't have the characteristics of maternity and a domestic orientation or a feminine nurturing

00:01:41.080 aspect. Women on the left are not like that, whereas women on the right still are. And because 0.98

00:01:46.440 women on the right have this nurturing instinct, which is a good instinct, 1.00

00:01:53.220 they don't want to crush enemies. They don't want to wield power. And the problem is that 1.00

00:01:59.260 And right now, because of feminism, even on the right, women are not predominantly in the home, even on the right, but often women are in the public sphere. And so how do we navigate that? How do we navigate feminization in politics and in culture and in positions of power and leadership? And how do you navigate that when you're trying to fight, when you're trying to win?

00:02:23.560 what is the right going to do? What are Christians going to do? Is there any hope? 0.99

00:02:29.320 And what are some practical takeaways and strategies to improve things by the grace of God?

00:02:34.820 All right. Tune in now.

00:02:36.680 Applying God's word to every aspect of life. This is Theology Applied.

00:02:47.200 Charles, feel free to dive in and thanks for coming on.

00:02:50.200 Well, I'm pleased to be here, and I'm a little bit intimidated by the invitation to talk at such length on a broad topic, which admittedly I have written on.

00:03:01.940 So I will do my best to explicate some of my thoughts in a reasonably coherent fashion.

00:03:07.120 It's obviously easier to do that when you can sit down and write them.

00:03:10.460 But since I've already written them, hopefully I can regurgitate them.

00:03:14.360 I'm happy to answer questions, and we can obviously go back and forth on it.

00:03:18.160 I think it's the Home Depot episode is instructive, as you say, but it's not even clear that the woman lost her job.

00:03:24.780 All that happened was Home Depot said she was no longer employed at that Home Depot location.

00:03:30.180 Assuming that's true, which we don't know because no one went and followed up and checked into it because that's not what people on the right wing do.

00:03:37.580 They do not pursue their enemies to the ends of time.

00:03:40.440 They simply drop the whole thing because it's not in their nature to to pursue people in that fashion.

00:03:46.060 And assuming she did not, in fact, return the next day and is not to this day working

00:03:50.380 at that Home Depot, which is entirely possible, it's also entirely possible she just quit.

00:03:55.120 And certainly if she did get fired, as you say, she has another job.

00:03:58.480 So as consequences go, this was completely trivial.

00:04:01.800 And there were a couple other things I saw.

00:04:04.180 For example, there was a Rutgers professor who was reprimanded by the university for

00:04:09.480 saying something similar.

00:04:10.360 But of course, now she's back to, you know, she's teaching this fall and there's been

00:04:14.820 no consequences of any kind for anybody for doing the kind of things that for a brief moment people

00:04:21.740 on the right wing thought might actually entail consequences endorsing Trump's assassination and

00:04:27.600 so on. And so the kind of disappointing thing, I guess, was the reaction from people on the right

00:04:36.200 to this Home Depot episode. There was a significant number of people who were very upset

00:04:41.700 that this woman had been called out at all, saying basically that it was unfair or unkind or

00:04:48.540 unmerciful or unchristian to chastise this woman for her behavior. And it was certainly all of 0.93

00:04:57.160 those things and more to have any actual consequences accrue to her, assuming for the

00:05:03.420 purposes of argument that consequences did accrue to her, which pretty obvious they didn't,

00:05:07.780 is even if she was fired, she could have got another cashier job at a big box store in about

00:05:12.740 five seconds flat, obviously, and no doubt that's what she did, if that's what she actually wanted 0.60

00:05:18.520 to have a job. So what I did in my piece is I discussed the history of this, and then I went

00:05:26.560 through the arguments, both of the people who were opposing this action and tried to make them

00:05:35.820 coherent and steel-man them, as they say, that has structured them in a way that they

00:05:42.220 presented the best case for that, as well as the arguments for the cancellation of the

00:05:50.340 Home Depot person, and more broadly for the cancellation of anybody who is an enemy of

00:05:56.300 the right.

00:05:57.300 And of course, in order to discuss that, you have to discuss the history of what was colloquially

00:06:03.400 called cancellation. And as everybody generally knows, I think, though I tried to put some

00:06:07.820 definitional meat on the bones, cancellation is the use of social and political power

00:06:13.900 to cause deleterious effects in the lives of individuals who are opposed to the doctrines

00:06:21.080 of the left. And this has been a regular left thing for many decades, and it has been

00:06:25.000 at a fever pitch by the left for the past decade, maybe 15 years, probably closer to a decade,

00:06:31.660 where any person who's identified as a potential threat to the left any type of possible social

00:06:40.120 and political power is used in an attempt to harm that person so that person is no longer a threat

00:06:45.160 to the left as a sidebar you can also notice who is not a threat to the left by noticing who is

00:06:50.720 not attempted to be canceled in any way um we don't need to name names but you can sometimes

00:06:56.380 see this this this dynamic in action where people who claim to be very right wing and leading the

00:07:04.040 charge and doing things are never even uh touched by the left in any way shape or form even though

00:07:10.420 they could easily be in various ways and that's obviously because they're not actually perceived

00:07:15.300 by the left as a threat so there's been innumerable examples of people who have who have uh been

00:07:21.960 harmed in this way. I mean, thousands, tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands,

00:07:26.240 certainly hundreds of thousands if you count the people who are forced to alter their behavior in

00:07:31.620 order that this not happened to them. And every major corporation in America, as everybody knows,

00:07:36.400 you can't say you're voting for Trump or you're against gay marriage or you're pro-life. Those

00:07:40.680 things will get you fired. And if they don't get you fired, they'll get you quietly fired in the

00:07:44.960 sense that you'll never advance in the corporation again. Your job assignments will suddenly become

00:07:49.320 unattractive so it may not be as dramatic as firing the next day but i know for example at least

00:07:55.000 20 years ago i stopped being a big law firm lawyer but i know for a fact certainly if i was still a

00:08:02.120 big law firm lawyer i was associate mid-level associate and i said something pro-life i would

00:08:07.160 be on on the street the next day right uh i mean that's and that's just and that's just the

00:08:12.120 political side of it in terms of just that's the danger of just holding opinions and that doesn't

00:08:17.880 even include, in terms of people harmed, that doesn't even include millions of people who

00:08:25.400 either lost their job or have a foreign substance now in their body. And many people have had

00:08:32.420 physical negative side effects because they would have been fired for not taking the jab.

00:08:39.120 So at every level, and all this is leftist. So whether it's, oh, you're pro-Trump, well,

00:08:44.300 enjoy the unemployment line or oh you won't take you know the mrna vaccine enjoy the unemployment

00:08:50.860 and in both cases it's the left it's it's like what oran mcintyre's it's the total state it's

00:08:57.640 the medical establishment the media the politician at every level it is just the leftist have all the

00:09:04.800 power yes and and and not have the power they've exercised this power and that's really the crux

00:09:11.020 of this question, which is, were the right ever to gain power, should they exercise power against

00:09:16.680 their enemies in a same or similar way? This is an academic question, because the right doesn't

00:09:22.080 have any power, and as was revealed by the Trump episode, whatever tiny amount of power they might

00:09:28.860 have had for a few days instantly evanesced when the left regrouped and made sure that it wasn't

00:09:33.300 possible for the right to use any power. But so really, this is a question of what should the

00:09:38.940 right do in the future if it gains power using this woman as an example and so what i did is i

00:09:46.320 addressed various arguments so for example what argument that you frequently saw is that this

00:09:51.880 person this is probably the most common argument you saw aside from like kind of vague like

00:09:56.240 accusations of unchristian behavior the the most common kind of practical argument that you saw

00:10:01.940 was this woman is a nobody and so therefore harming her doesn't actually accomplish anything

00:10:09.240 To which I had a couple different responses.

00:10:11.100 First of all, it's not at all clear this woman is a nobody.

00:10:14.540 The left always uses low-level foot soldiers to enforce its doctrines.

00:10:18.640 And while I certainly have no evidence of this, it's entirely possible and even likely

00:10:23.080 that a woman like this was instrumental in forcing her co-workers to get the devil shot,

00:10:29.720 reporting them if they didn't, reporting Trump voters, reporting people who are bigots, 0.70

00:10:35.540 or whatever.

00:10:35.840 However, throughout the history of leftism, this has been a basic tactic of the left to get its low-level foot soldiers to act as Stasi-type people and inform on people and so on.

00:10:49.360 So it's not at all clear that this person is low-level in the sense of having no negative effect on her co-workers and peers and what have you.

00:10:59.320 So it is not true facially to say that she's unimportant because she clearly is capable of and likely has caused significant damage to people in the past.

00:11:10.940 But even if she didn't, she's important because the punishing people like this who indisputably engaged in bad behavior is a warning and a threat to other leftists who have, in fact, behaved poorly.

00:11:27.000 Now, obviously, you can't take this principle too far. You can't take this random people off the street and punish them if they did nothing just to make an example of them. That's obviously unacceptable. But everybody agrees this woman acted in a way that was unacceptable, praising the attempted assassination of Trump and the death of one of his supporters.

00:11:44.780 So there's no argument that she had not behaved in a malicious and malignant fashion.

00:11:51.760 The only question is what punishment is appropriate.

00:11:54.780 So like I say, I don't think she's a low-level person at all.

00:12:01.680 Related to that, you frequently got the response in Peachy Keenan, whom I love.

00:12:05.060 I love Peachy Keenan, her pseudonym on Twitter.

00:12:07.600 She operates under her real name now.

00:12:09.740 was much of this appeared on x as kind of back and forth between me and uh and peachy you know

00:12:16.180 a kind of fallback position for those people as well leaving aside the question of whether

00:12:20.220 this person is low level or needs to be punished if she is low level is we should just attack the

00:12:27.260 powerful because really we need to concentrate our fire on the powerful i mean that's like saying you

00:12:32.460 know we should fly right the right doesn't have any power to attack the powerful the powerful

00:12:36.780 don't even notice when the right attacks them i mean they said they notice they snicker and it's

00:12:42.780 a point of pride with all their you know friends and their regime and the judges and the prosecutors

00:12:48.200 who protect them and what have you you know it's attacking the powerful it just is not a practical

00:12:53.980 strategy what that means is we should attack nobody because if we're not going to attack the

00:12:57.800 not powerful and we're going to unsuccessfully attack the powerful then what are we doing here

00:13:03.840 we're not doing anything here except wasting our time and pretending that we're accomplishing

00:13:07.720 something. And the right has a long and dishonorable history of pretending to accomplish

00:13:13.600 things and celebrating accomplishments that are in fact not accomplishments at all. And I should

00:13:18.180 know because I've been an active member of the right wing for pushing 40 years now. And let me

00:13:22.580 assure you that I've seen an awful lot of celebration of victories that were not, obviously

00:13:27.160 not victories at the time, and have not turned out to be victories in the long run either.

00:13:31.440 uh even this not to get too deep in history but this was the whole kind of raison d'etre of bill

00:13:37.180 buckley william f buckley jr you know i did x y and z didn't actually do anything useful uh and

00:13:43.600 then when there was a real fight to be had then he of course backed away and adopted the left

00:13:48.060 position because he didn't want to actually do something if he thought he had had the power to

00:13:52.960 do it so i mean that that attacking the powerful just doesn't uh doesn't make a lot of sense um

00:13:59.180 I also made other points, you know, turnabout is simply fair play, you know, and this is

00:14:05.560 what kind of a game theory thing, we'll get to the moral arguments here, but this is what

00:14:10.320 they call game theory tit for tat, right, that the only kind of stable equilibrium for

00:14:15.780 people who are fighting each other is to respond to an attack on you with an attack on the

00:14:20.520 person attacking you.

00:14:21.720 All other responses lead to unstable games where the games in the game theory sense,

00:14:28.660 not games in the children's play sense, unstable games where the person refusing to respond

00:14:35.060 aggressively against someone attacking him loses. And that's what, again, you see with the right.

00:14:41.400 The right has, for the past 40, 50 years, been beautiful losers. Well, they've been just plain 0.97

00:14:47.340 losers, and occasionally they're beautiful losers. I'm Roger Scruton. I attack this as 0.99

00:14:53.920 scrutinism and i like roger scrutin well he's dead so i like you know his work but the he was the

00:15:00.800 prototypical beautiful loser he actually wrote a book i reviewed where he talked about how bad

00:15:05.340 everything was and then at the end he's like well at least we can sit in the churchyards and look at 0.96

00:15:10.240 the sunset isn't it beautiful i'm like ah it's a waste of time roger i mean you know that church 1.00

00:15:15.200 is gonna be knocked down soon by the muslim invaders raping your daughters up the street 1.00

00:15:18.580 And so, you know, that's not really helping us, Roger. 1.00

00:15:23.920 So it's simply going to game you.

00:15:25.420 So wrong will eventually come for the Shire.

00:15:28.020 Yeah, exactly.

00:15:28.920 I mean, so, but, you know, Scruton, I mean, I understood, look, I like country churchyards

00:15:32.680 too, leaving aside the fact that the English don't go to church in their churches that

00:15:38.160 are attached to their churchyards.

00:15:40.900 You know, that's the real problem that the English, you know, what is it? 0.92

00:15:44.620 2% of the English go to church

00:15:47.600 in a weekly amount. I mean, it's like ludicrous. 0.94

00:15:49.800 I mean, it's not much better in America, 0.90

00:15:51.560 but it is better in America. I mean, England,

00:15:53.420 and I mean, that gets into a whole other conversation

00:15:55.460 about how Europe is over, which

00:15:57.360 people are always playing. Churches in England

00:15:59.420 and Europe at large are

00:16:01.460 becoming mosques or museums.

00:16:04.540 Yeah.

00:16:06.220 So

00:16:06.660 it's also important to note that

00:16:09.540 cancellations by the left and right are not

00:16:11.660 equivalent. That is,

00:16:13.280 as we mentioned earlier, this Home Depot person immediately found a new job, even if she lost her

00:16:18.700 job. The entire, the left runs an enormous ecosystem which ensures total protection for

00:16:26.520 anybody who suffers any ill consequences from even the most extreme actions. And that's, you see this

00:16:32.600 in academia, most obviously. But so let's just take an example. It's not cancellation, because

00:16:36.980 the left doesn't have to protect its members from right cancellations, because the right can't

00:16:41.840 cancel. But there has been some success, for example, at some college campuses with state

00:16:48.080 laws banning DEI, you know, diversity, equity, and inclusion, that is anti-white hatred being

00:16:54.820 pushed by the administration. But none of those people have lost their jobs. They were just given

00:17:00.240 new titles and they're doing the exact same thing they were doing the day before. And if someone

00:17:04.160 commits an actual crime on the left, even extreme crimes like pedophilia and so on, they always

00:17:09.840 was find in the infinite network of lavishly funded NGOs and quasi-governmental entities

00:17:14.840 and so on, all these people immediately find a job.

00:17:18.180 I'm writing a book review right now of Days of Rage, which is Brian Burroughs' book about

00:17:24.960 the many terrorist bombings in the 1970s by the left in 1972.

00:17:31.920 Take a guess.

00:17:32.920 In 1972, how many left-wing terrorist bombs were set off in America?

00:17:36.680 I don't know.

00:17:38.420 You tell me.

00:17:39.420 2000. So no one remembers this because it's all in the memory hole, but one of the major

00:17:44.700 bombers was this guy, Bill Ayers, one of the weathermen, who has now, and he and his partner

00:17:49.740 in crime, Bernadine Dorn, have for decades now had lavishly funded academic positions at

00:17:54.700 Northwestern University. So that's the kind of thing that the left protects anybody who's

00:17:59.820 acts badly and might suffer any deleterious consequences is protected permanently by the

00:18:04.620 the left. Conversely, all the people who are canceled by the left or on the right really

00:18:10.120 suffer. They, you know, they lose their jobs. Like, for example, there's Thomas Acord, the

00:18:15.400 headmaster famously attacked by Rod Dreher. You know, he's, I think, had real problems.

00:18:24.720 But generally speaking, anyone on the right who's canceled suffers real permanent consequences,

00:18:30.280 might be able to recover maybe not well and the biggest thing with that just just real quick to

00:18:35.360 interject um monologuing so please no no no you're doing great it's very helpful uh but the biggest

00:18:41.340 difference is kind of going back to what you said earlier it's the pursuit so the problem with

00:18:46.060 thomas acort you know because i might have some listeners who they're still just it's not even

00:18:51.500 that they're like an encounter and they're they're against what you and i are saying right now but

00:18:55.880 they just would be confused. They'd say, yeah, but didn't? They'd be like, I don't know why you

00:19:00.580 continue to use Thomas Acord as an example, because he really did have some atrocious

00:19:06.260 statements on his Anon Twitter account. And he admitted that that was him and it was linked to

00:19:12.980 him and blah, blah. And I would say, yeah, but here's the thing. We're not saying that there's

00:19:18.820 never any failures of any kind on the right. And we're not saying that the right should

00:19:25.800 have zero standards. Um, and we're not saying that there's no such thing as a category of sin

00:19:30.400 or any of these things. Here's the difference. This is, this is what irks me in the case of

00:19:34.580 Thomas Acord. Um, he didn't just get fired. Thomas Acord, the, the following up with the

00:19:41.300 Thomas Acord saga, the part that a lot of people don't know is he has continued to be fired.

00:19:46.780 These same people on the right, here's the crazy thing. These are, uh, you know, you got to put

00:19:52.600 done quotation marks, allegedly on the right, your Rod Dreer types, they didn't just say,

00:20:00.420 hey, you know what, we've got to have standards. No, they have continued to pursue. So if Thomas

00:20:06.580 Acord goes and gets a FedEx job and just, their position is not, you're not qualified to be the

00:20:12.540 headmaster of a Christian classical school. That's not their position. Their position is your children

00:20:16.820 and wife need to starve. And until you're dead, until you are dead, we are unsatisfied. We're not 1.00

00:20:23.760 just going to get you removed because we think you're not qualified because of things that you

00:20:28.800 said that objectively some of those things I would say were wrong. And you're currently in a Christian 1.00

00:20:34.700 organization and that's not fitting. But no, no, that is not their position. Their position is

00:20:38.980 you're bagging groceries, we're going to get you fired. You're sweeping streets, we're going to

00:20:44.260 get you fired. Somebody gave you a donation so that you could buy ramen noodles so your kids

00:20:48.740 could eat tonight. We're going to make sure that anyone is terrified to give you a donation because

00:20:54.140 of what it might do to them. We want you dead. That is the reason why I have used, on multiple 1.00

00:21:01.060 occasions, Thomas Acord as an example, just to set the record straight for all my listeners,

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00:22:18.180 Yeah, I think that's right.

00:22:19.900 But it gives it's a I'll come back to the to the main topic.

00:22:23.500 But I think this is an important kind of overarching political point, which is that this kind of behavior, the endless pursuit of enemies is inherent to the left.

00:22:32.480 It's in its nature to do this for a variety of reasons, but this is one of the reasons why

00:22:38.340 the politicization of society is bad and the politicization of society on a left axis

00:22:44.320 is terrible. And ultimately, that's why I'm only interested in one thing, which is winning.

00:22:50.880 And winning means the total and permanent destruction of the left such that these

00:22:55.040 things can never happen again. And that anybody who says I'm a leftist is stigmatized and is not

00:23:00.980 allowed to have any presence in decent society just as if you came out and said like i like to

00:23:06.420 um you know tear the heads off babies on live tv that should be about the level of revulsion

00:23:12.120 that someone yeah receives when he says i'm a leftist right because leftists literally do that

00:23:17.960 they just you know they just do that too they just do it you know five five seconds before

00:23:22.300 the baby is born but yeah right they like they don't like to talk about it but right the that's

00:23:27.140 why a politicized society is a bad society because it allows the left additional power. It's also

00:23:33.200 bad for other reasons. I mean, my personal, and this is obviously not workable at the present

00:23:37.800 moment, but 95% of people should have absolutely no opinions about national politics. Maybe they

00:23:44.400 should have an opinion about who should be mayor of their town, but a depoliticized society is the

00:23:49.640 only sensible society. Fundamentally, you just shouldn't have, and that means, of course, you

00:23:54.980 can't have mass democracy because it doesn't work in the modern world. Oh, I get it. We're getting

00:23:59.240 far afield. So, I mean, but the winning thing is important because, you know, I'll come to the

00:24:04.960 moral arguments here in a minute, but the winning, the subtracting, and people always quote, and I

00:24:11.720 think rightly so, the Cormac McCarthy character, who is the bad guy in one of his books, if the

00:24:16.980 rule that you followed led you to this place, of what use was the rule? And if the idea that

00:24:22.700 somehow we should all just agree to let people, the left, cancel and the right can cancel too,

00:24:30.040 that doesn't work. I'm interested in having a rule that says no cancellation. I'm interested

00:24:35.780 in having a rule that says only cancellation of people on the left, that I want to turn about

00:24:40.340 times 10 to the left, not come to some kind of classical liberal James Lindsay idea, which

00:24:46.820 simply doesn't work, that because the left is more political and cares more and people on the

00:24:51.280 left or get meaning from doing these things. Nobody on the right gets meaning from canceling

00:24:56.240 people, which is why, of course, you never see the follow-up. They're too busy grilling or going to

00:25:00.420 church or talking to their children. You know, the legions of winons with no children, no meaning in

00:25:06.280 life except to persecute right-wing people never will have a right equivalent, and therefore the 0.75

00:25:10.820 right cannot compete in the cancellation realm. That said, your power should be used, and you

00:25:16.080 kind of introduced this topic, wherever that power may be derived in order to crush the left.

00:25:21.280 And so hopefully that doesn't involve ultimately some kind of actual conflict, but stigmatization

00:25:27.740 of left beliefs, for example, the firing of everybody who has ever touched or been involved

00:25:32.780 in any way with, say, a DEI program at any public university or private university.

00:25:38.700 I mean, I would pass a federal law, just thinking about it out loud, saying if you are a college

00:25:43.080 that accepts federal funds, by tomorrow, anyone who has been involved in any of the following

00:25:49.080 jobs must be fired permanently with no pension, something like that. And everybody who's involved

00:25:56.280 in DEI or anything that's related to that should simply be fired without a job forever. I mean,

00:26:01.680 these are the things you have to do in order to win. But the right doesn't do anything. They,

00:26:05.220 of course, chicken out at the Home Depot woman. So this is all fancy, of course. I don't have any 0.96

00:26:11.360 way of exercising this particular plan. But as an abstract matter, that's what we should be

00:26:17.440 thinking about doing and focusing on, not whinging about whether the Home Depot person

00:26:21.940 has lost her job for six hours. I mean, it's not a practical way to approach life.

00:26:28.760 And you see this a lot, especially on the Christian right, that people say, oh, you know,

00:26:33.400 you can't use power. We need to, in the end, Christ wins, so we don't need to do anything.

00:26:41.700 I saw a meme this morning on X with the Lord of the Rings with Aragorn accepting the Isildur's sword from Elrond to go fight the bad guys.

00:26:54.040 And he said something like, oh, take this sword back, Elrond.

00:26:57.040 You know, I'll know better than Sauron if I if I take up a sword.

00:27:00.480 I can't actually fight for, you know. 0.96

00:27:02.520 I mean, that's the approach of a lot of Christians that we can't actually fight for anything.

00:27:06.960 And we certainly can't cause harm to other people.

00:27:09.660 But of course you can cause harm to other people.

00:27:11.420 I mean, when other people do bad things, they need to be punished.

00:27:15.240 That's just the way it is.

00:27:16.140 I mean, this idea that somehow we can't chastise people even verbally, much less more aggressively,

00:27:21.580 because even though they did obviously bad things for, you know, reasons and stuff, it's just kind of bizarre.

00:27:28.900 And I've actually written quite a bit on this, and this gets kind of deep into the weeds of exegesis and so on.

00:27:34.920 But there is an important distinction in Christianity to be made, which is not original to me,

00:27:38.520 but doesn't get a tremendous amount of attention between private enemies and public enemies.

00:27:44.280 So in Latin, so the New Testament obviously was written in Greek,

00:27:48.500 but the early translations, St. Jerome's translation, the Vulgate,

00:27:52.560 which was used throughout much of Christian history,

00:27:55.100 uses the word inimicus for enemy, what we translate in English as enemy, rather than hostis.

00:28:00.680 Inimicus is the Latin word for private enemy,

00:28:03.620 And the New Testament does not use hostess at all, with very rare exceptions, which means public enemy.

00:28:11.140 And a private enemy is someone with whom we have a personal quarrel, a beef, some kind of reason to be angry with that person on a personal level.

00:28:19.460 And a public enemy is that set of people which attempts to destroy us as a group, that is the polity, rather than someone who we have a personal beef.

00:28:29.820 And obviously, so if you go back to the New Testament, the enemies of Israel were typically hostess rather than inimicus.

00:28:35.200 I mean, there's exceptions to that.

00:28:37.000 But this has gotten lost where people think that we need to act in a Christ-like fashion.

00:28:45.960 We need to never offer any defense against the public enemy.

00:28:49.980 Simply allow them to do whatever they want to us because Christ says we need to love people.

00:28:54.040 And if we love people, then we let them do what they want.

00:28:56.680 I mean, these things are just kind of clowning when you say them out loud.

00:28:59.180 They're obviously false, because Carl Schmitt, who wrote extensively on this, is the modern kind of theorist of this particular exegesis, or one of them, said something like, never in the thousand-year history of conflict between Muslims and Christians did it occur to a Christian to say that they shouldn't fight the Muslims because of the rules about loving your enemy.

00:29:21.440 Muslims, as an entity, are the public enemy, and obviously you fight against the public enemy.

00:29:26.840 And in the same way, the left is the public enemy, both of America and of Christians, and therefore has to be fought and put down. 0.81

00:29:34.620 I mean, these things are just, I mean, it sounds kind of trivial coming out of my mouth.

00:29:40.000 Like, it doesn't sound like I'm saying like the sun sets in the sun. 1.00

00:29:42.760 But Christians don't get it, so it does have to come out of your mouth. 1.00

00:29:45.380 I guess. 0.97

00:29:46.020 I mean, maybe I've just been thinking about it too much.

00:29:48.260 No, yeah, it's the simplest thing in the world, but it absolutely has to be said because we have become so impotent.

00:29:56.200 and we're pacifists and we think that somehow that that's righteous and pleasing to the Lord,

00:30:01.340 but it's not. And one other thing that, you know, cause I said at a conference a while back,

00:30:05.280 the New Christendom Conference in Utah, and it went, I don't know if you ever follow any of my

00:30:11.740 stuff, but Right Wing Watch, they watch every, I don't know why, but they're my biggest fans.

00:30:17.480 They watch everything that I do. So anyways, they basically, they're basically on the payroll of

00:30:24.120 right response ministries. They should be. I owe them an immense amount of credit, but they pick

00:30:30.040 up everything that I said and boost it out to millions of people. And I get mostly criticism

00:30:34.560 because the people they're pushing it out to are leftists, but also lots of people find our stuff

00:30:38.620 and enjoy it. And so, anyways, all that being said, I said that I want to win. I don't want

00:30:43.040 to be a beautiful loser. I want to win. And in winning, what is winning? It's crushing your

00:30:48.760 enemies and rewarding your friends. And a lot of people lost their minds and couldn't believe

00:30:54.020 it. And of course, leftists lost their minds because we're the only ones who are allowed to

00:30:58.740 do that. But even a lot of Christians really struggled with it. A lot of people, I would say

00:31:03.640 the majority of people at the conference who were there in person, they understood what I was saying

00:31:08.720 and received it positively and were even grateful. But there were some that really did struggle with

00:31:14.300 it. And so, I had to do some follow-ups and things like that and trying to bring clarity. And one of

00:31:18.840 the pieces of clarity that I brought was, you know, I tweeted out just saying, Christians have

00:31:24.040 to begin, and I think, you know, more broadly, conservatives or whatever, you know, conservatives,

00:31:27.920 sadly, it's not even the best word anymore. I still appreciate it, but those on the right,

00:31:32.340 you know, one of the things that we must train ourselves to do is think in categories. So,

00:31:36.280 what does it mean to crush your enemies? Well, it's categorical, and it depends on your vocation

00:31:41.140 in life. I think of 1 Corinthians 7, you know, whatever station in life the Lord called you,

00:31:45.680 Right? If he called you, you were converted to Christ and you were a Roman centurion, you would think in modern, you know, with our modern post-war consensus kind of frame of mind, you would think that the centurion soldiers, because this actually happened when they come to Christ and say, what does it mean? What does it look like for us in our vocation to follow you? The post-war consensus would assume that Jesus said, well, what it looks like, the first thing it looks like is selling your swords and finding another job. You know, you need to be, you know, bake cakes or something like that.

00:32:13.920 You know, but like, you know, making cakes is not permitted. Right. Yeah. Well, that's true.

00:32:18.340 Yeah. But, uh, but certainly you can't be soldiers and certainly not in, you know, in a Roman 0.95

00:32:23.260 empirical, you know, um, um, militia. And so all that being said, my, my point is, uh, that's not

00:32:28.500 what Jesus said. Uh, instead what he said is you, you need to do this, but, uh, be content with your

00:32:32.460 wages and don't extort, um, from others. Um, but you can continue to serve the Roman empire, um,

00:32:38.720 with a sword as a soldier. And so, my point is there are categories. So, where did the Lord

00:32:44.460 call you if you were single? So, 1 Corinthians 7 talks about single versus married, and that's

00:32:50.580 the primary case study. But the principle applies beyond that. Were you a pastor? Are you single?

00:32:55.940 Are you married? Are you a child? Are you an adult? Do you work for Google and its algorithm?

00:33:01.740 Or are you a police officer? Are you a city council member? And so on and so forth. And so,

00:33:06.240 the point is this. What does it look like to win? It's crushing your enemies, rewarding your friends.

00:33:10.400 What does it look like to crush your enemies? It depends on the category. It depends on your

00:33:14.680 vocation. So, when we say crush your enemies, I'm not saying that Christians in the middle of the 0.95

00:33:19.320 night should dress up like Batman and be vigilantes and run around and kill their enemies. 0.98

00:33:24.200 No one is saying that. You're not saying that. I'm not saying that. We're not saying that. What 0.80

00:33:29.040 we're saying is you do it in all the capacities, staying in the various lanes that the Lord has

00:33:34.840 assigned to us. So, it means culturally. What does it mean culturally to crush your enemies?

00:33:39.460 It means making leftist thought a complete pariah to where someone is ashamed. They are ashamed to

00:33:46.940 publicly utter views that the Lord hates, that God hates, like murdering babies and chopping 1.00

00:33:54.620 off the genitals of children. Like, leftists should be ashamed. And anyone who has said those 1.00

00:34:00.080 things publicly in any serious position of power and media and all that, absolutely. They should

00:34:05.200 be crushed. Meaning what? That you privately as a vigilante should kill them? No. It means they 0.99

00:34:10.960 lose their job. It means they lose their livelihood. They lose stock. They lose credibility. It means

00:34:15.860 all those things. And if you are a civil magistrate and you have leverage and you have the role and

00:34:21.840 the power to legislate, legislating righteous laws. And so again, that's not vigilante, but

00:34:26.840 that's now through the mechanism of the state legislating righteous laws that would have

00:34:30.460 righteous consequences as a private citizen. It means doing it culturally. It means utilizing

00:34:35.220 social media. If you're a private citizen who owns a business, it means hiring the faithful,

00:34:41.180 hardworking Christians in your church and not hiring leftists who hate you and who are going

00:34:47.660 to demean you. That's what we're talking. We're talking economically. We're talking socially,

00:34:51.380 culturally, politically, in all these ways that are perfectly conducive with biblical standards,

00:34:58.040 none of this is taking vengeance and unrighteous, wicked vengeance, which ultimately that belongs

00:35:06.740 to the Lord. He will get eternal vengeance by casting people into hell, those who hate him.

00:35:12.440 But that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about all the mechanisms that are at

00:35:16.700 our disposal and that are righteous to use. And in those ways, that's what we mean by crushing

00:35:21.580 enemies and rewarding friends. This is perfectly conducive with Christian thought. 0.65

00:35:26.360 And I mean, the kind of legal process thing I think is important, right? You know, when people

00:35:31.200 run around crushing their enemies literally through vigilantism, that does not lead to

00:35:35.260 social comity. But it is entirely appropriate at some future point for the right to set up

00:35:40.820 judicial tribunals to try people for crimes that took place in the past. You don't want to go

00:35:45.960 whole hog and try millions of people.

00:35:48.300 But this is basically, it would be similar to something like what was done after World

00:35:51.700 War II with the denazification program, where you basically examine the behavior of people

00:35:55.820 in the past. 0.55

00:35:56.820 You find particular malefactors and you sentence them to jail for some period of time or picking

00:36:01.020 sugar beets in Saskatchewan, as I like to say, you know, but that's a process of justice.

00:36:07.240 I mean, the punishment of leftists is fundamentally a process of justice, not a process of political

00:36:15.940 political you know it's not it's not revenge it's justice it's not revenge it's not getting

00:36:22.520 yours like frequently fights in the ancient world like in greek city states or in the roman world

00:36:28.560 where well i want the pile of money you want the pile of money and so now we're going to have a

00:36:33.700 justice process where i declare you a criminal because i get the pile of money that's not what

00:36:38.680 we're talking about here i mean we're talking about this is not a monetary thing this is a

00:36:42.360 The left is, of course, a relatively new feature of the world.

00:36:47.700 As in the Roman times, there were no leftists in any meaningful sense.

00:36:51.660 The left impulse has been around since the Garden of Eden, but only since the Enlightenment

00:36:56.180 that leftism is a politically reified thing, beginning in the French Revolution, has been

00:37:02.940 something that has infected the world.

00:37:04.580 We need to get back to the point where our biggest problem is who gets the pile of money

00:37:08.340 and then run a society where people don't fight too much over the pile of money right so anyway

00:37:14.240 i i think that the there i mean there are other arguments for about this this home depot one for

00:37:18.500 example you saw a common one on on x where people are like well if you this is so counterproductive 0.97

00:37:24.480 because all the normies out there see this poor home depot woman and they're like oh the right

00:37:30.280 wing is so terrible that they never give any examples of people like this when people say 0.97

00:37:35.560 the right wing needs to not use political power

00:37:38.040 because the normies will be offended,

00:37:39.620 there's never any examples of this.

00:37:41.260 And that's because the normies aren't offended.

00:37:43.360 And to the extent they're convinced,

00:37:44.900 they're convinced by the exercise of power,

00:37:46.760 not by staying one's hand like a weakling

00:37:49.160 against people who are clearly backed.

00:37:51.220 Right, the only people that are offended,

00:37:53.620 and it took me a while to figure this out,

00:37:56.280 but I realize that the only people

00:37:58.100 who are offended by displays like this

00:37:59.860 are not people on the right.

00:38:01.840 They're people who think they're on the right,

00:38:03.180 But they're actually very much influenced by the left.

00:38:06.620 Exactly.

00:38:07.220 And, you know, and there's a word for people like that.

00:38:10.440 There's a lot of words, but here's one. 1.00

00:38:12.840 Women. 0.97

00:38:14.720 Like, to be completely honest, like, how do you make a woman conservative? 1.00

00:38:18.960 You marry her. 1.00

00:38:20.200 That's how you do it. 0.73

00:38:21.820 But a lot of single women who would identify as being Christians and belong to churches, you know, reasonably, at least doctrinally, theologically conservative churches, 0.81

00:38:30.520 um they they would they would have some sense of of a uh um an automatic disgust reflex you know

00:38:38.840 at something like this like a woman losing her job um but but the reality is um this this uh

00:38:46.520 that's convinced that's their nature i i don't even i'm not even completely to be honest i i

00:38:53.000 don't even think that's a bad thing i don't think that that's something that we're supposed to fix

00:38:56.640 I don't, like that is, you know, that's their nature.

00:39:00.560 It's the same as like, you know, all that, like with the Ukraine, I remember like a lot

00:39:04.960 of women coming out and writing poems about if I, you know, if I was Putin's mom, you

00:39:09.860 know, and it's like, and I, you know, and it was funny, you know, but I remember just

00:39:13.880 thinking as a pastor, as a Christian pastor who I believe the Bible, so I adhere to patriarchy.

00:39:19.620 I think, you know, egalitarianism is communism.

00:39:21.880 I think that, you know, feminism is absolutely terrible, matriarchy is terrible, and complementarianism

00:39:29.340 is just a halfway house and a placeholder for patriarchy.

00:39:31.940 So patriarchy is, I mean, this is how the world has worked for thousands of years, and

00:39:35.580 it's a good thing.

00:39:36.260 Sure, there are abuses, but it should be done. 0.70

00:39:39.000 The problem is not to throw the baby out with the bathwater, but to do patriarchy righteously

00:39:42.480 in a way that loves women and loves our daughters and all these kinds of things. 0.99

00:39:45.320 I love women.

00:39:46.220 I have my fourth daughter on the way, and every time I have another daughter, I immediately, 1.00

00:39:50.780 as soon as she's born, I become 200% more radicalized overnight. And so, because I love

00:39:57.080 that little girl and I want her to succeed in life and everyone in the world hates her. They say that

00:40:02.160 they love her, but they hate her. They want her miserable. They want her to be single, fruitless, 0.99

00:40:06.760 childless, cat lady, you know, all these, J.D. Vance was absolutely right. And I understand why

00:40:11.660 it's not advantageous right now because the country's filled with degenerates. And so, truth,

00:40:15.700 you got to be strategic and careful and deliberate. It's not always, doesn't always play well in a

00:40:20.560 country where, you know, there are more technically more women than men and, and they're voting and 1.00

00:40:25.340 most of them are single. But my point is this, with all these people who were averse to the idea

00:40:30.500 of the right wielding a fraction of the left's power in one tiny instance over the last two

00:40:37.200 decades, you know, with a low level Home Depot employee who, who we don't even know she actually

00:40:41.860 even lost her job. Like you already said, she could have quit. And we have no doubt that she's 1.00

00:40:45.480 either well taken care of making in the monetary sense uh as much if not more by not working on an

00:40:51.740 unemployment situation or she's immediately been rehired somewhere else um and yet you know all

00:40:57.540 she didn't lose any friends right exactly if anything she's getting high fives slay queen yeah

00:41:03.300 so all that and yet there's still this aversion my point is uh where does that aversion come from on

00:41:08.220 the on the right i think by and large it comes from women um and and the solution there is not

00:41:14.340 to persuade every woman to be a man 0.65

00:41:16.900 because that's not the brag you think it is. 0.66

00:41:19.280 That's not winning. 0.99

00:41:20.300 We don't want women to become men. 0.98

00:41:21.980 We want women to be women.

00:41:23.420 And so I think the solution there

00:41:25.020 is that men have to lead, that we have to lead.

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00:42:29.280 America is a country that was founded for the purpose of allowing Christians

00:42:31.960 to do their duty before God and not to have their consciences ruled

00:42:34.740 by the doctrines and commandments of men.

00:42:37.040 Reese's Fund exists in order to see the Ten Commandments properly applied,

00:42:40.520 not just as a plaque on the wall, but to actually be used in business as though they're commandments

00:42:45.580 from God that we're supposed to obey. Our goal is to find businesses and to buy them and to build

00:42:51.940 them up. We want to find manufacturing businesses and use them to make sure that we can maintain

00:42:56.640 our capacity to do things here. Reese Fund, Christian Capital, boldly deployed.

00:43:04.460 I agree entirely. And you see this even with Peachy. I mean, I love Peachy, but there is a

00:43:08.560 little bit of the the mother because she's a woman praise god she's feminine so she thinks 0.83

00:43:13.360 there is a certain point she's rational she's logical she's wise but then there is a certain 0.98

00:43:19.260 point where as a woman she's uh maternal and nurturing that's great she should be that's 1.00

00:43:25.940 fundamentally this is a larger political structure question why the women should be deprecated in

00:43:31.040 terms of their political input at the particularly at the national level and i made this point in my

00:43:36.360 these two, not specifically with respect to women. There's an element of that in this as well. But

00:43:40.620 there's many other things that need to be done in the country that are not necessarily direct

00:43:45.060 at the left wing. So for example, millions of illegals need to be deported at the point of a

00:43:49.540 gun. And so the first time that happens, the media, the leftist media will find some crying child,

00:43:56.760 you know, with a big gun in his face, and then plaster that everywhere as a propaganda exercise.

00:44:02.800 that all these people who are emotive will be, oh, we can't deport anybody. Look at that crying

00:44:06.840 child. I mean, the fact is these people need to go and they need to go yesterday and they need to

00:44:11.120 be moved out with as much violence as is necessary, hopefully a minimum amount of violence. It needs

00:44:16.880 to begin right now. But we can't approach that important public policy objective through the

00:44:21.740 prism of if a baby cries one time, we can't do it. I mean, that's and that's kind of the, I mean,

00:44:27.600 If we can't even have a Home Depot person who suffered no ill consequences at all, as far as we can tell, from this episode, we can't even do that without wringing our hands about it.

00:44:39.160 We're never going to get anything done that we need to get done.

00:44:41.280 Right.

00:44:41.520 I preached a sermon recently.

00:44:43.360 The title was, God Give Us the Stomachs for Revival.

00:44:47.120 And my main point was, we've been praying that God would give us hearts for revival.

00:44:51.620 And that's good.

00:44:52.460 but maybe, you know, not as a replacement, but in addition to that prayer, we need to pray that God

00:44:57.800 would give us stomachs for revival. We went through the book of Ezra, and there's a point

00:45:01.560 in the book of Ezra, and I'm not saying that this has to happen here, but I think that there would

00:45:04.920 be this general application in whatever, you know, appropriate, you know, whatever appropriate

00:45:10.660 instance it might be. But in Ezra, when they find, you know, Ezra, he's a scribe, he's a preacher,

00:45:15.960 and when he finds the book of the law and dusts it off and begins to preach, you know, they're

00:45:19.480 already well on their way of this rebuilding project, right? They've been kicked out of the

00:45:23.120 land. They've been conquered. And finally, in God's grace, you know, there's this Cyrus-type

00:45:26.780 figure. There's a lot of different similarities to where we are today. And Cyrus, he's not

00:45:31.600 necessarily a follower of Yahweh. You know, he's not necessarily a Christian, but he resources out

00:45:38.100 of his own treasury, puts them back, realizes that Christianity is good for the world, you know, 0.67

00:45:41.980 that Israel, you know, and being in there and blah, blah, blah, and resurrecting the temple 0.53

00:45:46.420 and praying for kings and different kingdoms

00:45:49.740 and these kinds of things that God would be benevolent

00:45:51.880 and stay his hand of judgment.

00:45:53.380 So they go and the project,

00:45:55.960 the rebuilding and reconstruction project of the right

00:45:58.680 of these Christian principles is well underway.

00:46:03.460 And so then towards the end of the book,

00:46:06.260 they're now teaching the law of God again

00:46:08.700 and the people are listening.

00:46:09.960 They construct a pulpit where Ezra is at the top

00:46:12.220 and from morning till afternoon,

00:46:14.260 he's reading the law of God

00:46:15.640 and the people are weeping because they realize how far off the rails they really are.

00:46:19.140 So, at first, they're excited because it's like, look, we rebuilt the temple, we rebuilt

00:46:23.460 Jerusalem, but then he starts reading the law, and it's just kind of this, it's like

00:46:27.400 reading history.

00:46:28.180 It's reminding them of their past.

00:46:30.300 It's like, oh my goodness, like that used to be normal, you know, like America used

00:46:34.140 to be like that?

00:46:34.880 Oh my goodness, you know, you don't even realize how much of your freedom has actually

00:46:38.440 been eroded and how degenerate and wicked you actually have become, even those on the

00:46:44.120 right, even Christians, how compromised we are. And one of the things specifically was intermarriage 0.52

00:46:50.320 in their case, because they weren't supposed to marry, you know, foreign wives who worshiped

00:46:54.920 foreign gods. And so, there's a point in the book of Ezra where they have to send away their wives

00:46:58.860 and children, and there's weeping. You know, I mean, that's a very hard thing to do. It's not

00:47:04.180 that they're cold and heartless. It's not that, you know, these men in Israel are like, yep,

00:47:07.580 send them away. I don't care. Like, they're doing it because they love the Lord even more than their

00:47:12.200 own families, but it's breaking their hearts. The whole thing is marked with tears and immense

00:47:17.780 grief and ripping their clothes and sackcloth and ashes. And first and foremost, but here's the key,

00:47:24.560 first and foremost, they are far more grieved by how for decades now, if not even longer,

00:47:29.340 they have offended their God. Their love for their God is predominant. That's first and foremost.

00:47:36.120 But then secondarily, they also are grieving over these women and children that they really did 0.87

00:47:40.940 love, and still love, but they have to obey Yahweh. And so, my point is, I'm not saying that 0.75

00:47:46.540 people in inter-ethnic marriages get to that. I'm not saying it's a direct one-to-one ratio

00:47:52.400 application, but the general equity, the principle is exactly what you said. Immigration is a great 0.96

00:47:57.080 example, and there would be others, but the point is we don't just need hearts and zeal.

00:48:01.140 We need stomachs, and the reality is that a lot of people on the right, that's our biggest problem.

00:48:05.460 We do not have the stomachs, not just to win, we don't have the stomachs to obey God, which

00:48:11.480 is winning.

00:48:12.160 We don't actually, we don't have the stomachs, the wherewithal to actually, because what

00:48:16.240 does that look like? 1.00

00:48:17.080 It would look like women and children crying and leaving because they came into the country 0.96

00:48:23.540 illegally. 0.69

00:48:24.020 And I'm sorry, we don't hate you.

00:48:25.540 It's not a personal enemy like what you were saying earlier, but you're not allowed to

00:48:29.740 be here.

00:48:30.400 You're just not. 0.98

00:48:31.320 America is for Americans. 1.00

00:48:32.860 It's not for everyone.

00:48:33.760 This is trivially obvious, but it's kind of a trivially obvious thing that the people, as you say, stomach is a great word, just can't stomach.

00:48:43.020 I mean, and, you know, you could even do it on a much more gentle basis.

00:48:47.600 You could say, you know, here you go.

00:48:49.840 We're flying you back to the Congo, wherever, Somalia. 0.99

00:48:54.380 Somalia, for sure. 1.00

00:48:55.320 $5,000 each, you know, we'll get you on this plane.

00:48:59.280 It's a nice air-conditioned plane, you know.

00:49:01.320 So but no matter how easy you make it, there'll be some set of people who are wailing and crying and so on.

00:49:09.000 And then the left will use that as a as a tool in order to make people view politics through emotion, which is always a fatally bad emotion is important.

00:49:21.560 You can't have a completely unemotional society, even though you're all like Vulcans or something.

00:49:25.460 But the emotion should be essentially completely separated from politics.

00:49:29.680 And the biggest reason we have too much emotion is feminization. 1.00

00:49:35.020 It's not just women.

00:49:36.180 It's feminized men.

00:49:37.080 Oh, yeah. 0.97

00:49:37.360 It's women of both sexes, for sure. 0.69

00:49:39.480 No, you're right.

00:49:40.480 It's women and women adjacent, which is virtually everyone at this point. 0.99

00:49:43.660 But that's— 0.72

00:49:44.480 Not us.

00:49:45.000 Yeah, not us. 1.00

00:49:45.760 We're women adjacent. 0.96

00:49:46.560 There are two that are not—we love women.

00:49:49.060 We both have wives.

00:49:49.840 We have daughters.

00:49:50.480 But we are not women adjacent.

00:49:52.440 But that's, I think, part of what turned me on to you, Charles, is as a pastor, we talked

00:49:57.680 about this before we started recording.

00:49:58.880 Like, you're Eastern Orthodox, I'm Calvinist Reformed.

00:50:03.280 And so, you know, so I'm not going to have you on the show to talk about justification 0.68

00:50:05.820 by faith, because I think you're wrong, and you think I'm wrong, you know, and that's

00:50:09.140 fine.

00:50:09.340 Well, you've probably thought about it more than me, so I would lose anyway.

00:50:12.440 I hope.

00:50:13.000 I'm a pastor, so I should have thought about it a lot.

00:50:15.900 But all that being said, my point is, but there's so much that we can agree with, and

00:50:20.800 I think you're helpful on this.

00:50:22.480 And one of the things that turned me on to you was, you know, your foundationalism, you

00:50:26.380 know, your Magnus Opus, you know, and writing that, you know, and these different, you know,

00:50:30.560 steps. And one of the things that I remember was a year and a half ago and a lot of guys in my

00:50:34.940 larger reformed camp, you know, we're, you know, doing some pearl clutching and very, you know,

00:50:40.220 the women adjacent type of tradition, you know, clutching the pearls and oh my goodness,

00:50:45.120 he's advocating for violence. But, you know, if you just, you know, I'm a guy who I like to give

00:50:49.280 people, you know, a fair shake. And so I read it and I listened to some things you said and I

00:50:53.560 realize he's not saying put on the batman suits to go back to the early analogy and the vigil

00:50:58.340 ante and that we should be the he's saying no the violence is already here it's it's our adversaries

00:51:02.820 it's the left the left burned down half the country just just a few years ago and and with

00:51:07.760 impunity with impunity the united states holds more political prisoners than any late communist

00:51:13.940 country right now at this very moment so 2024 violence is alive and well violence is alive and

00:51:19.220 well, you weren't advocating for Christians to enact unjust violence from a vigilante private

00:51:24.200 citizen kind of platform. And so, but you were saying, but these are my predictions. There's a

00:51:28.940 difference in what we prescribe and then what we are describing. And pastors on the Reformed,

00:51:34.840 they should have known this. That's literally part of our hermeneutic in reading the scripture.

00:51:37.920 Is this a descriptive text or a prescriptive text, right? Thus saith the Lord, do X, Y,

00:51:42.880 and Z versus, and this occurred, like David sleeps with Bathsheba, right? That's in the Bible.

00:51:48.480 So, yeah, so adultery is prescribed.

00:51:51.420 No, adultery is being described, described.

00:51:54.660 And so, anyway, so all that being said, my point—

00:51:56.840 One of my favorite King David things, which I've focused on some of my writings lately, is how he was not permitted to build the temple.

00:52:03.540 Because even though he engaged in just violence at the command of the Lord, he had shed too much blood and was therefore not permitted to build the temple.

00:52:10.360 That's right.

00:52:10.620 Which I think is a very interesting thing with implications for our own future.

00:52:14.060 It's categories.

00:52:14.700 Again, it's not that David did wrong in fighting the very battles that the Lord called him out to.

00:52:19.620 If anything, his big mistake with Bathsheba is he stopped fighting the battles. 0.98

00:52:23.320 He should have kept executing violence against the enemies of Yahweh. 0.78

00:52:28.780 But still, God thinks in categories. 0.83

00:52:31.680 So God's saying, yep, you did exactly what I told you to.

00:52:34.400 If anything, you should have done more.

00:52:35.960 And at the same time, that wasn't objectively sinful or wrong.

00:52:39.660 and yet it's simply that's not the guy who builds my temple, which is a place of prayer.

00:52:45.520 That's another guy. There are different roles. There are different roles, different categories.

00:52:49.440 So anyways, all that back to the women thing. What turned me on to you was your descriptive 1.00

00:52:53.940 and predictive, not prescriptive, but predicting. And I think you're right. I'm post-millennial,

00:53:00.900 but I'm not the post-millennial of the stripe and color that would say that,

00:53:04.820 you know, hashtag that post-mill will win in 50,000 years. In the meantime, we do nothing.

00:53:08.880 I think we really got to do something. And I would like to win as early as possible because, again, see point A, I have kids and I love them. And they got to grow up somewhere, whether it's Costa Rica or I don't know. I don't know where they're going to go. I'd like them to be able to stay here. And so I want to fight. Go fight, win. And I'm willing to partner with any, you know, if you're a dispensational guy, I'm not a huge fan of that doctrine. But if you're a fighter, all right, let's fight.

00:53:33.820 So all that being said, my point is you described some things.

00:53:38.080 I think you described them really well.

00:53:40.380 And I think things will probably have to get a little bit worse before they get better

00:53:46.740 because I don't.

00:53:48.440 So I'm an abolitionist.

00:53:49.640 I think that, you know, but I'm voting for Trump because, again, I can think in categories.

00:53:53.900 I want the full abolition of abortion.

00:53:56.300 I want equal protections, all these things.

00:53:58.440 But this is one of the things I tweeted out a while back.

00:54:00.580 And a lot of people actually surprisingly agree, because I think people are starting to come to their senses.

00:54:04.920 But I said, universal suffrage or the abolition of abortion.

00:54:09.500 America can have one, but you can't have both. 0.99

00:54:12.100 Yes, I think that's true.

00:54:13.640 You know, and so my point is— 0.90

00:54:14.900 Why universal suffrage is dumb, objectively, for many reasons? 0.97

00:54:17.860 It's foolish, and it's not just repeal the 19th Amendment. 0.97

00:54:20.880 I beat that drum, you know, probably more than I should have. 0.95

00:54:23.700 Definitely gets you reactions, you know, but it's beyond that.

00:54:27.260 It's beyond that.

00:54:27.920 But the point is just democracy with a country of 330 people, 330 million people that is massively diverse.

00:54:37.860 And I'm not just talking about different shades of pigment.

00:54:40.280 I'm talking about different cultures, different religions, all these different things, and no borders, and universal suffrage, and even illegals being able to vote because the left is ensuring that they can go into a city and not prove any citizenship or even a driver's license or ID.

00:54:57.920 But to think that you can play by that framework, those rules, and somehow vote yourself back to a constitutional republic, right?

00:55:07.340 If you could keep it, great, but we didn't.

00:55:08.960 The verdict has come back in, you know, the jury's back.

00:55:11.460 We didn't keep it.

00:55:12.560 So to think we're going to vote our way.

00:55:14.200 And so I've talked a lot about, you know, there's bottom-up revival, right?

00:55:17.480 Where, you know, just preachers going down the coastline, people coming to Christ, and that's great.

00:55:21.940 And I'm working for that.

00:55:23.100 It's not like, it's not either or.

00:55:24.480 I'm a local pastor.

00:55:25.360 Again, categories.

00:55:26.180 You have on one side, I'm doing this over here.

00:55:28.520 I'm catechizing my children as a husband, as a father, as a local pastor, all those

00:55:32.720 things.

00:55:32.980 I want to see people saved, and I think that makes a difference.

00:55:36.080 But if I had to, again, not prescribe, but describe what I think God will do, here's

00:55:40.620 the best—people ask the wrong question.

00:55:42.480 They ask, what can God do?

00:55:43.900 I think a better question is, historically, what has God done?

00:55:47.740 What does God typically do?

00:55:48.840 What's his MO?

00:55:49.700 And in biblical history, looking at Israel, and in church history, looking at the last

00:55:53.220 2,000 years in virtually every culture on the planet, it's not bottom-up revival. 99% of the

00:55:58.520 time, it's top-down revival, meaning it's some kind of coup, it's some kind of conquering,

00:56:03.860 it's some kind of depossessing, whatever. You got bad king, bad king, bad king, then you get a good

00:56:09.480 king, and the good king he's not voted in, and the good king comes in and he says, you know what,

00:56:15.640 let's put our finger in the air and see where the hearts of the people are and we'll give them what

00:56:19.100 they want. No, he says, you like Asherah, and you like Baal, and you like the temples and the high

00:56:24.080 places, but I'm sorry, it all ends now. I'm ripping them down, and you will outwardly, only God can

00:56:30.820 change your heart, but outwardly, you're going to pretend to be faithful to Yahweh, whether you like 1.00

00:56:35.520 it or not. And lo and behold, what happens? Over time, the law of God, when legislated properly

00:56:41.340 in a polis, politically, in the civil realm, the law of God, it doesn't save them, but what it does

00:56:48.160 is it sets the proper conducive context

00:56:51.120 for understanding righteousness and sin.

00:56:53.640 It reveals to the people that they actually are degenerates

00:56:56.060 and they're no longer allowed to call vice virtue.

00:56:58.820 And then the gospel of free grace and these things,

00:57:01.720 it now is falling on no longer deaf ears,

00:57:04.300 but those who are hungry for the forgiveness

00:57:06.560 that's found in Jesus, they acknowledge their sin.

00:57:09.380 And eventually the law works as a tutor

00:57:11.620 and it begins to shape the conscience

00:57:13.680 and it begins to disciple the hearts.

00:57:15.920 And then the gospel comes and changes hearts

00:57:18.140 that has happened in church history. That's happened in biblical history. As far as I'm

00:57:21.440 concerned, I'm a young earth guy, for 6,000 years, 99.9% of the time, that's the way revival works.

00:57:27.200 It's not grassroots, bottom up. It is top down. And in terms of top down, we're not going to vote

00:57:33.040 ourselves into that kind of situation. It's probably going to be some kind of hostile takeover

00:57:38.320 that initially is going to be really ugly. And I'm not necessarily rooting for it, and I'm certainly

00:57:43.140 not going to somehow orchestrate it or make it happen, but that's probably what's going to

00:57:47.620 happen that's what i heard from you basically i'm giving my you know christian language and i would

00:57:51.960 so when i heard that i thought yeah charles haywood if if you if you can't listen to this 0.97

00:57:56.840 guy without clutching your pearls you're you're fake and gay he has something to say you should 0.98

00:58:01.140 listen i'm gonna put that on my twitter profile if you can't listen to this guy without clutching 1.00

00:58:05.640 your pearls you're fake and you're fake and gay uh but i thank you i i appreciate that i think the 0.99

00:58:11.400 point about the people and uh tearing down the temples and saying you're now going to worship 0.99

00:58:16.720 in the proper way is very important because, as they say, orthopraxy leads to orthodoxy.

00:58:21.580 That is, right practice leads to right thinking.

00:58:23.820 And so the role of the government, the civil magistrate or whatever, is to provide the

00:58:30.080 proper channels for people to come to God and to forbid them from behaving in ways publicly

00:58:35.680 and overtly that are not on the path to God.

00:58:39.300 Obviously, they're not, I mean, they're responsible for bringing people to God in the sense of

00:58:42.860 doing those things, but everyone's responsible for his own salvation ultimately.

00:58:46.720 But the government can do any number of things that make those things, that path easier and

00:58:51.820 smoother.

00:58:52.560 It's obviously hardest for the first generation, which is returning from degeneracy, and many

00:58:57.360 of them don't overcome that.

00:58:58.600 But you wait 50 years for their grandchildren, and pretty soon, in the right scenario, and

00:59:04.260 this is, as you say, happened throughout history and happened throughout Scripture, the later 0.52

00:59:08.100 generations are living right.

00:59:10.140 Not 100%, obviously.

00:59:12.060 No one's perfect.

00:59:12.800 backsliding. But, and even, obviously, as we've already touched on, even the greatest saints,

00:59:18.180 you know, King David behaved in atrocious, sinful ways part of the time as well. We just know about

00:59:24.080 King David because he got recorded. There were any number of other people in biblical times who

00:59:28.300 sinned gravely and just didn't get the honor of a place in scripture.

00:59:32.680 Well, and David was humble enough. Part of the reason we know about David is because,

00:59:36.000 not just because he sinned, but because he repented. The only reason he's recorded is

00:59:40.320 because he repented to the point of allowing it to be recorded he was the king he could have had

00:59:45.120 it scratched out of you know the to the victor goes the spoils including the history books including

00:59:48.980 the bible of course ultimately the holy spirit inspires the text and preserves and all those

00:59:52.800 things but david in the human sense and the human agency was used by god in his sovereignty to say

00:59:57.560 yeah you know my biggest blunders um i'm gonna allow it to be written down because um because

01:00:02.100 i really salutary for you and me right i mean we now you know i haven't have not fortunately

01:00:07.940 behaved quite as bad as David in some areas, though maybe worse in other areas, but the example

01:00:14.060 is salutary. Right. Yep. So all that being said, any final thoughts about, I mean, wielding power,

01:00:22.060 what do you do right now with universal suffrage? There's, what is it? I think it's 51, 52 percent

01:00:28.120 of the population is female, and 48, 49 is male, and marriage is on an all-time low, and

01:00:35.980 procreate you know the reproduction you know is all time low like uh what do you you don't do

01:00:43.540 anything right we're sitting around waiting i mean it's nothing we can do except within our

01:00:47.520 own families right church communities and larger communities we do all the obvious we pray we

01:00:52.060 preach we're good husbands good fathers what else are you going to do i mean you know yeah you should

01:00:56.780 buy guns and you know buy some canned food and what have you but at the end of the day

01:01:00.600 we're just corks tossed upon the ocean right and i i think i mentioned to you before recording

01:01:06.140 that i'm reading maybe there's part of this i can't remember now there's days of rage book

01:01:10.460 about the violence of the left um you know the left has always been big on this propaganda of

01:01:15.580 the deed that if we do these violent things it'll bring the revolution you know that's obviously 0.99

01:01:20.480 stupid like people on the right wing just don't think that way there's no there's no way to bring 0.98

01:01:24.900 about you know the future the future is going to arrive when the future feels like it we can't do 1.00

01:01:30.120 anything about it. We just need to be prepared for and set up the structures for the future.

01:01:34.900 And the future will no doubt be tumultuous. Hopefully it won't be catastrophic. And that's

01:01:39.520 where it's going to be. So, you know, that's what we're going to do. I mean, there's really not

01:01:43.120 much more we can do at this point. Amen. Yeah, I think, you know, change starts at home. So first

01:01:48.940 and foremost, be faithful where the Lord has placed you as a husband, as a father, be a member

01:01:53.480 in the church. It's the praxe, what you say, you know, it's our, you know, our methodology and our

01:01:57.800 Our praxis is what shapes our theology and our ideology and our convictions and political views.

01:02:05.580 You want your political views to change?

01:02:09.800 Get married, eat healthy, and work out. 0.99

01:02:12.420 That right there.

01:02:13.420 And all of a sudden, you'll find yourself saying, hey, I think we should build a wall.

01:02:18.220 And hey, where did that thought come from?

01:02:21.020 Well, in fairness, Kamala Harris wants to build a wall now, too. 1.00

01:02:23.700 Of course. 0.99

01:02:24.200 So I don't think she's doing any of those things.

01:02:25.600 Right.

01:02:26.020 Yeah, you're right.

01:02:26.580 But the point is, start at home, disciplines in your daily life, be a good husband, be

01:02:31.740 a good father.

01:02:32.440 I would strongly urge people to be a good church member, and then sharing the gospel,

01:02:38.000 preaching and these things.

01:02:38.800 But then beyond that, also, I'm convinced that we had the numbers.

01:02:42.220 Back to the bottom-up versus top-down revival, I think we had the numbers in the past where

01:02:46.620 a bottom-up would have worked with a moral majority.

01:02:49.740 And the typical Calvinist, on my side of the aisle, doctrinally, the reform guys would

01:02:55.920 say, because we're theological purists, we would say, well, we never had the numbers. People

01:03:02.360 profess Christ, but none of them were actually saved. There were very few. They were false

01:03:06.140 converts through this and through that. And I would say, I understand that. I do think that 1.00

01:03:11.200 there's such a thing as false assurance, but I think we actually did have the numbers. I can't

01:03:16.620 prove in a regenerate, eternal sense that that was true, but I'm inclined to think that we did.

01:03:21.120 I'm inclined to think that there was at least a period of time in America's history, and not

01:03:25.880 that far back where probably over half the population really was um by the grace of god

01:03:31.060 not by their own doing but by the grace of god genuine christians um yeah and it still wasn't

01:03:36.180 enough and i think the reason i think go ahead i think kind of bringing a full circle i mean

01:03:40.480 that's where we came in on this question it was enough if those people had been willing to take

01:03:46.880 the necessary actions exactly instead of they allow themselves to be deceived and led by this

01:03:51.620 you know corrupt crust upper crust ruling class what many of whom professed to be believing

01:03:58.580 christians but did all the things and restrained the mass of christians from taking the actions

01:04:05.540 when things started going downhill in the 60s from saying this ends here right these people

01:04:10.920 are now cast into the outer darkness you know instead they they neutered that mass of christians

01:04:16.840 when you get neutered obviously people fall away and now you don't even have if we did have that

01:04:21.600 that mass of people. Right. Yeah. They attacked their own and welcomed in the enemy with this

01:04:28.200 misguided, perverse sense of compassion. 100% agree. And so that's what I mean. It wasn't

01:04:33.640 enough in agreeing with you. It could have been. That many Christians could have been enough.

01:04:38.020 But at the end of the day, in the final analysis, it was not. And it was not because conversion, 0.95

01:04:43.920 and this is my point, conversion is not enough. So going back to practical takeaways and what do

01:04:47.700 we do. Start at home, love your wives, love your kids, be a part of a church, and yes,

01:04:52.460 share the good news, share the gospel. But I think it's nothing less than that. It's never

01:04:57.260 less than that. Nobody's arguing, let's replace preaching the gospel. No, no, no, no, no, no. It's

01:05:00.780 not less, but by the grace of God, I'd like to think that we could walk and chew gum at the same 0.65

01:05:04.320 time as Christians, and that maybe it could be a little bit more than that. And one of the things 0.63

01:05:08.500 that I would advocate for the more category is that we have to teach Christians how to apply

01:05:15.260 the Christian faith within the civil and political realm. How to, you have to teach them how to think

01:05:20.840 in categories so that if we ever did have the numbers by the grace of God, and then the future

01:05:25.220 that we're waiting on in his sovereignty, it does come to pass. And, you know, and some of these

01:05:28.820 events, you know, actually take place and someone crosses, you know, some American Caesar crosses

01:05:33.480 the Rubicon and sees his power, you know, and says, that's it. The human sacrifice will stop,

01:05:37.960 full abortion ban across, you know, and those things, you know, actually happen. Our job, 0.53

01:05:43.500 I think is, I can't, you can't at a personal level make those things happen. What we can do

01:05:48.320 is maybe we could prepare hearts and minds through training and discourse and all these different

01:05:53.380 things to where if God would be so kind to make those things happen in his timing and through his

01:05:59.080 power, that when they do happen, Christians wouldn't be raising their fist against God.

01:06:04.060 That's what we have consistently had in recent history is anytime God does do something good,

01:06:09.760 like objectively good crushing his enemies and rewarding his sons and daughters um the very

01:06:17.400 people decrying it are christians like like operating like satan using the word of god like

01:06:23.500 satan did with jesus in the temptation of the wilderness using the word of god of god against

01:06:28.020 god himself like that and so that's that's my goal is aside from the stuff at home and as a

01:06:34.460 local pastor the reason i'm doing these is i'm trying to prepare christians so that if we ever

01:06:39.660 did, if God would be so, we don't deserve it. We, you know, we forfeited long ago, but if God would

01:06:44.140 be so merciful as to give us power once again, that we would actually wield it instead of, you

01:06:50.340 know, just some lousy analogy of, well, the ring, you know, shouldn't be wielded by anybody, you

01:06:56.840 know, and it should be cast into mortar. The ring, that analogy doesn't work. The ring is the sword.

01:07:01.900 It is the state God instituted. The ring was not made by Sauron, by Satan. It was made by God. It's

01:07:06.840 not going away there is no mortar to destroy it so it's just who's who's going to wield it and it's

01:07:11.140 either going to be the orcs or it's going to be men yep that's it 100 agree all right cool how can

01:07:17.620 people follow you i uh write at theworthyhouse.com where i just write there is no subscriptions

01:07:24.540 except to get notifications i also appear on x i've been on x too much lately i've been making

01:07:30.200 too many predictions they are going to probably uh come back to haunt me if i my predictions are

01:07:35.460 wrong, so I will disappear from X

01:07:37.380 if my predictions are wrong in

01:07:39.340 humiliation. You're right most of the time,

01:07:41.560 but you have had a couple wrong ones recently.

01:07:43.600 I won't point about it. We can

01:07:45.440 talk about that later, but I thought

01:07:47.320 Biden was going to stick around. I kind of thought so, too.

01:07:49.400 I was surprised.

01:07:51.360 But we can talk about that

01:07:53.380 later, perhaps. So on X and

01:07:55.180 theworthyhouse.com. Great. Thanks so much for

01:07:57.380 coming on the show. God bless you. And

01:07:59.300 to our listeners, thanks for tuning in. We'll see you next time.

01:08:05.460 We'll be right back.

The NXR Podcast - September 02, 2024

THE INTERVIEW - Developing Stomachs For Revival with Charles Haywood

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