The NXR Podcast - THE INTERVIEW - Hollow Earth & Primary Water ｜ ICYMI w @hauntedcosmos_

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00:00:45.540 Even the great C.S. Lewis was powerfully captivated by the mysterious legends of Hollow Earth.

00:00:51.100 There is one peculiar passage from the Silver Chair of the Chronicles of Narnia where Lewis

00:00:56.740 provides us with a small glimpse into Bism, a secret world which lies deep within the earth.

00:01:04.460 Are there other lands still lower down? asked Eustace. Oh yes, your honor, said Golg. Lovely

00:01:11.860 places, what we call the land of Bism. This country where we are now, the witch's country, 1.00

00:01:16.980 is what we call the shallow lands.

00:01:19.620 It's a good deal too near the surface to suit us.

00:01:22.360 Ah, you might almost as well be living outside,

00:01:25.700 on the surface itself.

00:01:27.820 Down there, said Golg,

00:01:29.660 I could show you real gold, real silver, real diamonds.

00:01:34.260 Bosh, said Jill rudely,

00:01:36.060 as if we didn't know that we're below the deepest mines even here.

00:01:39.780 Yes, said Golg,

00:01:41.400 I've heard of those little scratches in the crust

00:01:43.680 that you top dwellers call mines.

00:01:45.360 but that's where you get dead gold, dead silver, dead gems.

00:01:50.920 Down in Bism we have Alive and Growing.

00:01:54.640 There I'll pick up bunches of rubies that you can eat and squeeze you a cup of diamond juice.

00:02:00.600 You won't care much about fingering the cold, dead treasures of your shallow minds 1.00

00:02:06.020 after you have tasted the live ones of Bism. 1.00

00:02:09.280 My father went to the world's end, said Rillian thoughtfully.

00:02:12.480 it must be a marvelous thing

00:02:15.060 if his son went to the bottom of the world.

00:02:21.760 Here we are, C.S. Lewis.

00:02:23.700 Absolutely.

00:02:24.320 I mean, some would say that this is fantastical in fiction,

00:02:26.620 but we know that he's writing really just history.

00:02:29.140 It's just nonfiction.

00:02:29.920 It's nonfiction. 0.91

00:02:30.940 It's bism is real.

00:02:31.720 Yeah, it's bism is real.

00:02:33.000 C.S. Lewis is giving us an eyewitness account.

00:02:35.160 We can only assume.

00:02:36.100 He's just choosing to use characters.

00:02:38.060 That's a safe assumption to be made.

00:02:40.040 The point is this.

00:02:40.920 C.S. Lewis, Hollow Earth, fan. At least a fan. And that's what we want to start with. So I'm

00:02:47.740 just going to lay out a bit of an outline for this episode, Hollow Earth theory, its main

00:02:52.420 components, its theory, its history, some of the guys who are involved. After that, we want to talk

00:02:57.440 about a spiritual reality that we think has physical components as well, which would be

00:03:02.000 Hollow Earth applied to the biblical narrative of Sheol, the realm of the dead, not hell. We'll draw

00:03:06.980 some distinctions, but Sheol, the realm of the dead with different places, a place of paradise,

00:03:11.900 Abraham's bosom, those kinds of things. So we'll move from hollow earth to Sheol, then from Sheol

00:03:16.560 and hollow earth, getting the concept of primary water theory that a lot of people are probably

00:03:21.700 unfamiliar with, but is all but fact at this point. It has a major growing consensus of notable

00:03:30.060 scientists, and it gets into even the character of God. Is God capricious? Is he sinister? Did

00:03:36.740 he commanded us to be fruitful multiply, knowing that obedience to that command would bring about

00:03:41.500 our own demise, that we would have, you know, the overpopulation myth. No, it's not a zero-sum

00:03:47.940 game. The pie can grow, that water is not a finite recycled resource, but a renewable

00:03:53.880 and infinite. It's constantly being produced, so primary water theory. And then in terms of

00:03:58.580 applications, applying that to the beautification of the earth, eradicating deserts, getting rid

00:04:03.880 of the Sahara, making it a garden, a city, a paradise, talking about not just the location.

00:04:09.940 We're going to talk about the location, the lost city of Atlantis, but not just the location,

00:04:14.600 but the very real possible restoration of Atlantis, bringing it back to its- 0.65

00:04:19.420 Without the Nephilim.

00:04:20.060 Without the Nephilim, bringing it back to its redeemed greater glory in human history, 0.89

00:04:25.340 not just when Jesus returns, but progressively leading up to it. So restoration of earth, 0.96

00:04:29.560 the discovery and restoration of Atlantis,

00:04:33.500 and then applying primary water theory

00:04:35.840 and hollow earth theory to other places like Mars

00:04:38.960 with polar ice caps, proof of water,

00:04:41.480 underground oceans that scientists

00:04:43.020 are already speculating about.

00:04:45.340 Could Mars become a hospitable place,

00:04:50.960 habitable place, hospitable place to human life,

00:04:55.060 vegetation, these kinds of things.

00:04:56.440 And then lastly, primary water theory, hollow earth, shield, these components as it pertains to elongated human lifespans, right?

00:05:06.120 Not just that we're the lesser sons of former sires that lived for 900 years, but that Isaiah 65 could actually be fulfilled in human history before the final physical return of Christ.

00:05:18.620 Isaiah 65 that says the youth shall die at 100.

00:05:22.200 Right now, lifespans have already been increased

00:05:24.680 to the point if somebody dies at 45

00:05:26.300 and it was a few hundred years ago,

00:05:28.180 we'd say they lived a full life.

00:05:29.600 If somebody dies at 45 today, we say he was just a kid.

00:05:32.960 But Isaiah 65 says that the youth shall die at 100,

00:05:37.300 presupposing or at least implying

00:05:38.980 that you could have 400, 500,

00:05:41.060 maybe even back to 900 year lifespans.

00:05:43.640 What if Christ is so potent in his victory

00:05:47.700 that he comes to make his blessings flow

00:05:50.000 as far as the curse is found

00:05:51.460 and that we actually hit a thousand year,

00:05:55.140 an even greater lifespan to say that the second Adam

00:05:58.620 and his victory dwarfs the first Adam 0.69

00:06:02.400 in his sin and failure.

00:06:04.700 So we're gonna be talking about hollow earth theory,

00:06:07.380 Sheol, primary water, Atlantis, Mars being cultivated

00:06:11.700 and the lost fountain of youth.

00:06:14.740 Here we go.

00:06:15.560 No small task.

00:06:16.300 How much time do we have, Joel?

00:06:18.020 We're going to give it our very best.

00:06:20.320 It may end up being a two-parter, we'll see.

00:06:22.260 But let's start with the first thing on the list.

00:06:25.740 What is hollow earth theory?

00:06:26.980 Who are some of the components?

00:06:27.920 Why does it matter?

00:06:29.180 So the first main character to promote this idea of hollow earth,

00:06:33.320 which basically just says that the outer surface that we live on,

00:06:37.600 in the most extreme case, is a shell.

00:06:39.820 And inside of that shell, there are subsequent concentric spheres

00:06:44.360 or other shells that kind of revolve around each other.

00:06:47.180 and one of them might be very hot and very bright.

00:06:50.260 Some of them might be filled with oceans

00:06:51.680 and there may even be living creatures or plants.

00:06:55.140 Entire lands, entire other worlds within our own.

00:06:58.480 That's the most extreme,

00:07:00.820 the version that we're all familiar with

00:07:02.120 from sci-fi works like Journey to the Center of the Earth.

00:07:05.220 King Kong, Godzilla.

00:07:06.520 Yeah, King Kong, Godzilla.

00:07:07.300 But the first man to promote this idea seriously

00:07:10.880 was Edmund Hillary.

00:07:13.540 No.

00:07:13.700 Edmund Hillary, actually.

00:07:15.560 No.

00:07:15.740 If it was Edmund Hillary, we could only hope that that person went to jail.

00:07:21.600 Is Haley's first name Edmund?

00:07:23.540 Yeah, Edmund Haley.

00:07:24.500 You've got half of it.

00:07:25.740 Yeah, so the first man to really promote this idea is Edmund Haley.

00:07:29.540 And he's the guy of Haley's Comets fame.

00:07:32.060 And so he is a legitimate scientist, friend of Isaac Newton.

00:07:35.160 He's a royal scientist.

00:07:36.860 He actually studied under the first, James Flamestead, royal scientist, which is very exciting.

00:07:43.240 So he's a credentialed guy.

00:07:45.280 And he noticed the polar shifts in the Earth's magnetic field.

00:07:51.500 He's trying to solve some problems from observing magnetic issues.

00:07:56.080 How the Earth's magnetic field was generated.

00:07:58.980 He's trying to reconcile issues in the physical model of his day.

00:08:02.800 The fact that over time, north on your compass begins to shift and change.

00:08:07.040 He's trying to account for that.

00:08:08.440 And instead of magma underneath the core and being this fluid thing,

00:08:12.640 well, it's because it's all fluid and it's moving.

00:08:14.800 He's saying, but what if there's actually concentric spheres

00:08:17.340 and there's a magnetic sphere that's more iron and more this and more that

00:08:20.600 that's moving at a different speed than the outer surface

00:08:23.840 or even a slightly different direction

00:08:26.140 and that that's what's causing these changes to the compass

00:08:29.680 and what's accounting for north and those kinds of things.

00:08:32.100 He was a serious scientist.

00:08:33.900 Yeah, very serious guy.

00:08:34.760 And he was positing this idea that, well, this could help explain.

00:08:38.000 Right.

00:08:38.340 And was Haley even promoting the idea of civilizations or anything at all under the earth?

00:08:42.860 he was simply positing a physical model

00:08:45.680 for the makeup of the Earth itself.

00:08:48.080 Some of these later Jules Verne type,

00:08:50.740 you know, possibly mythologies,

00:08:52.580 possibly...

00:08:53.780 True.

00:08:54.240 Maybe they're...

00:08:54.880 Real history.

00:08:55.160 Maybe they happened.

00:08:56.220 Right. 0.98

00:08:56.660 Haley was much more just a geological model.

00:08:58.800 He was just trying to figure out

00:08:59.860 how does the Earth work, right?

00:09:01.400 What's the model?

00:09:02.440 And then Haley,

00:09:03.400 the guy who takes the baton from him 1.00

00:09:05.020 would be...

00:09:05.880 John Symes.

00:09:06.760 Yeah.

00:09:07.340 Who is an army ranger or an army officer.

00:09:10.160 He's not actually a scientist.

00:09:12.660 But he gives a series of lectures and writings in the early 1800s

00:09:16.000 that promote this idea that Haley first came up with.

00:09:19.760 But then he takes it a step further.

00:09:21.220 And he starts to say, well, there could be entire ecosystems,

00:09:25.260 entire civilizations that are under our feet,

00:09:28.240 and we have to go find them.

00:09:29.680 Yeah.

00:09:30.160 And it's this whole other land full of riches and life and wealth

00:09:33.520 or dragons and fire and a whole other sun and ocean.

00:09:37.400 All of these fantastic things.

00:09:38.980 Classic 19th century explorer type of...

00:09:41.860 And he actually, he tried to get government approval and funding to take an expedition to the North Pole.

00:09:47.260 Which worked, not for him, but for the next guy.

00:09:49.900 Not for him.

00:09:50.720 And so everyone said no.

00:09:52.220 But the problem was his ideas were so popular that it could no longer be ignored.

00:09:56.680 The public ran with it.

00:09:57.900 Right.

00:09:58.220 And they loved science ideas.

00:09:59.040 Well, it's a better story.

00:10:00.280 Right.

00:10:00.640 It's a better story.

00:10:01.400 It's a way better story.

00:10:02.120 Let's be honest.

00:10:02.940 So that gives birth to another naval officer.

00:10:05.200 Reynolds, I believe, is one of the next guys who actually does an expedition, an Arctic expedition.

00:10:11.200 and is trying to map out the Arctic

00:10:14.120 and see if he begins to conceptualize

00:10:16.560 that there actually might be openings

00:10:18.840 at the two poles, polar openings

00:10:21.080 to these lower levels of worlds beneath worlds. 0.85

00:10:25.920 To bism.

00:10:26.540 To bism, exactly.

00:10:28.140 So he's now trying to go and chart these things out.

00:10:30.540 And then the last guy, most recent, 1910 to 1977.

00:10:34.200 So this guy has only been dead for less than 50 years

00:10:37.300 and that's Richard E. Byrd.

00:10:39.340 and then Bird claims that on one of his expeditions

00:10:45.040 that he actually found one of the entrances

00:10:47.100 to Hollow Earth in the Southern Arctic, I think.

00:10:52.900 Yeah, it was the Antarctic South Pole area.

00:10:55.460 And he writes in his diary how he goes in.

00:10:58.700 He went in.

00:10:59.300 And found giants.

00:11:00.920 Giants.

00:11:01.760 Civilizations.

00:11:02.560 Advanced technology.

00:11:03.780 Advanced technology.

00:11:04.880 Yeah.

00:11:05.320 And all that's in his diary that his son published

00:11:07.860 after his death.

00:11:09.180 And that leaves us, you know, about up to date in terms of,

00:11:12.460 so that's some of the main key players,

00:11:15.180 the way that the theory has progressed.

00:11:17.780 In the modern age.

00:11:19.240 Right, in the modern age.

00:11:20.660 Exactly, yeah.

00:11:21.440 So, I mean, we'll go back to the ancients

00:11:23.060 and talk about some of that and different conceptions.

00:11:25.180 But that's just the modern age,

00:11:26.740 beginning with Haley from a very strict,

00:11:30.800 you know, scientific approach.

00:11:32.620 This was not a fiction author.

00:11:34.840 This is, you know, he's saying,

00:11:36.440 no, I think this is real.

00:11:37.960 And the only thing that begins to develop further from Haley

00:11:41.360 is the idea that these concentric spheres,

00:11:43.800 that there may be space between them.

00:11:45.860 And that's where, of course, you have theories such as,

00:11:48.200 you know, Ben's shock theory, a commonly known theory.

00:11:51.020 You can find it on Wikipedia.

00:11:52.200 That's right.

00:11:52.800 You know, we have a whole episode on that,

00:11:54.600 a bonus episode.

00:11:55.360 I'll plug that real quick.

00:11:56.440 If you want to find out more about the history,

00:11:58.900 the key players in the theory of hollow earth

00:12:00.640 and how it works from a scientific perspective,

00:12:03.040 join us on Patreon.

00:12:04.500 You can become a Patreon member

00:12:05.860 and we're going to have a few bonus episodes

00:12:07.860 and that's one of them.

00:12:09.600 But the shock theory, quick synopsis with that

00:12:11.960 is just saying, just like bones are porous, right?

00:12:15.060 So saying, okay, so we're not saying

00:12:16.480 that you have these layers, concentric spheres

00:12:19.760 and that they're not touching.

00:12:21.560 We're saying, no, there are pillars and columns

00:12:23.140 and all these different things porous,

00:12:24.660 like the inside of a bone

00:12:26.620 and that that actually would be advantageous

00:12:29.400 to make the earth more durable, flexible,

00:12:32.160 give with certain seismic shifts, earthquakes,

00:12:35.000 strikes from a meteor, these kinds of things.

00:12:37.080 Or even gravitational anomalies.

00:12:38.920 It gives the earth mechanical advantage

00:12:40.980 to have some sort of internal damper

00:12:43.260 that helps resist gross spring-like mechanical stress

00:12:49.100 that it would experience from other heavenly bodies.

00:12:52.100 But what this allows for is not just spheres within spheres,

00:12:54.660 but space in between that could feasibly,

00:12:59.400 conceptually, it could accommodate its own heat source,

00:13:02.360 light source, water, vegetation, life, creatures, atmosphere, a world within worlds. Absolutely

00:13:10.100 possible. And anybody who says it's not is a liar. So we're not saying that this is true,

00:13:16.580 but what we want to help you out throughout the course of the series is not us making definitive

00:13:21.660 claims, this is true. But what we will say definitively is that those who attempt to

00:13:28.260 definitively say this is not true, they don't have a leg to stand on. And part of the reason is

00:13:33.900 because they can't get down there. Yeah. Because we've never even made it through the earth's

00:13:38.260 crust. Not even close. Not even close. Let alone into the mantle, which supposedly makes up the

00:13:42.820 bulk of the inside. Right. And to put into perspective, we're talking about approximately

00:13:45.740 8,000 miles from top to bottom of the earth. The crust being just like, I mean, think of an M&M

00:13:52.700 with a very thin, hard shell layer.

00:13:55.960 That's the crust.

00:13:57.240 So the crust is a very, in terms of depth,

00:13:59.820 it is comparatively very small

00:14:02.140 with the rest of the inside of the earth.

00:14:04.680 But still, the crust is a few hundred miles.

00:14:07.620 Right, I think it's a little over a hundred.

00:14:10.460 And you have-

00:14:11.020 And we haven't even gotten close to-

00:14:12.140 3,900 to go to the center of the earth.

00:14:14.460 And the reality is,

00:14:15.360 if you were to shrink the earth down

00:14:17.400 to the size of a baseball and hold it in your hand,

00:14:20.560 and you took all the water off,

00:14:22.700 The distance between the deepest trench and the highest ocean to you

00:14:26.180 would be almost imperceptible.

00:14:27.920 Actually, I have heard Neil deGrasse Tyson say that at scale,

00:14:31.540 the earth without any water is smoother than the cue ball at a pool table.

00:14:35.900 It's that.

00:14:36.640 It's smoother than a pool ball.

00:14:37.880 We're so small that we look at these things and we say they're huge.

00:14:40.480 With Everest, with the Mariana Trench.

00:14:42.340 You actually wouldn't even feel it on your finger.

00:14:44.440 Wow.

00:14:44.820 It's just so...

00:14:45.540 Yeah, if it was the size of a pool.

00:14:46.920 Tiny, tiny to us.

00:14:47.920 And we're talking Everest going up 26,000 feet, I think, in change.

00:14:52.500 28,000. Yeah, when we go down

00:14:54.320 to the crust now, that's like five

00:14:56.440 miles. We're looking at

00:14:58.340 a couple hundred miles

00:15:00.500 and even that. And even that

00:15:02.340 is nothing. The shell. Golg, when he says

00:15:04.640 that, oh, those things you call mines,

00:15:06.560 those are just scratches on the surface.

00:15:08.660 Lewis actually got

00:15:10.560 that right. I mean, that's

00:15:12.340 correct. Because you're

00:15:14.440 talking about 100 miles in comparison

00:15:16.640 with 8,000. So

00:15:18.240 just going to the center of the earth and not all the way

00:15:20.560 through. Yeah, exactly. It would be 3,900. Yeah. Which is still negligible. But just giving guys

00:15:26.180 the scale. All right. So now let's talk about the spiritual application and ancients going. So now

00:15:30.460 we're going way beyond Haley going back in time and talking about how this goes with the conception

00:15:36.300 of Sheol, the realm of the dead, and not just ancients who would prescribe to the scripture,

00:15:42.860 but also Greek mythology and all these different ideas, Hades and Hercules going to rescue

00:15:49.760 you know, his, his love and those kinds of things that they're very likely is a reality to speak of

00:15:55.300 there. But as we do that, I think it's also worth, you know, I feel like I've promised it,

00:16:00.700 or at least in my head, I promised it. But in terms of creatures, like, I think that it's at

00:16:07.860 least plausible that you could, we're not just talking about single celled organisms, you know,

00:16:12.000 or certain whatever, you know, amoebas or bacteria.

00:16:20.800 I mean, this could explain, like, dinosaurs, dragons, sea serpents.

00:16:26.460 There's been some pictures that have come out recently that are blurry creatures, of course.

00:16:31.360 Of course.

00:16:31.880 Because, you know, creatures that don't want to have their picture taken are always blurry.

00:16:35.800 But off the coast of Antarctica, of these things crawling around the surface that are just bizarre.

00:16:42.000 And you have stories of scientists that go to Antarctica.

00:16:45.260 H.P. Lovecraft riffed on this in his Mountains of Madness,

00:16:49.220 at the Mountains of Madness,

00:16:50.660 that these scientists claim that they see things

00:16:53.380 that just should not be there, that are completely bizarre.

00:16:57.020 And there's creatures that are massive,

00:16:58.920 and they look like monsters, and they're really weird,

00:17:02.200 and they don't know where they go.

00:17:03.640 They seem to disappear behind the pyramids of Antarctica, of course.

00:17:07.840 I mean, obviously.

00:17:08.440 Because there are pyramids in Antarctica. 0.95

00:17:09.740 You had the Nazis that were heavily invested 0.61

00:17:12.920 in trying to conquer Antarctica. 0.66

00:17:14.980 And they were also occultists, every single one of them. 0.70

00:17:17.640 And they were trying to do Nazi bell experiments 0.50

00:17:19.560 and all these types of things to open up things.

00:17:23.100 We don't really know the details in Antarctica

00:17:25.840 because they were so sure that there's something there

00:17:29.240 that we don't know about yet.

00:17:30.800 That would be valuable.

00:17:32.920 Or that we've forgotten about.

00:17:33.840 And America was trying to do it too.

00:17:35.180 They weren't the only, I mean, they probably invested more.

00:17:38.380 But think about that.

00:17:38.980 The whole world is against you, right? 0.96

00:17:40.720 With Germany. 1.00

00:17:41.760 And it's going to take everything you got 0.52

00:17:45.060 to try to win this war.

00:17:46.200 And you're thinking it's worth reserving

00:17:48.500 some of your resources, your wealth, your time,

00:17:51.500 your energy, your manpower to go and try

00:17:54.860 to find this secret that could give you an advantage.

00:17:58.860 And it's not just the geographical locale

00:18:01.980 of an advantageous place to be able to go and invade another.

00:18:06.500 It's not just viewing Antarctica like that.

00:18:08.600 They actually thought there might be something there.

00:18:11.440 Something that could help them win the war.

00:18:13.800 So they dedicated not just some of their manpower,

00:18:16.540 but actually some of their brightest minds

00:18:18.280 to figuring this place out.

00:18:20.360 And it certainly captivated the mind of humanity

00:18:23.140 in our mythology and the stories we tell

00:18:25.280 from ancient times all the way up through,

00:18:27.840 I mean, I think of True Silver and Moria 0.71

00:18:29.640 and the dwarves delving too deep and too greedily 0.69

00:18:33.060 and what things were awakened in the deep places of the earth. 0.94

00:18:36.140 The Balrog.

00:18:36.680 With the Balrog or with in Paralandra when Ransom goes into the planet, into Venus. 1.00

00:18:43.560 It's amazing. 0.90

00:18:44.400 Ransom descends into Venus and he sees a society of beings.

00:18:49.880 And there's like this procession of ornate parades going on underneath Venus.

00:18:57.300 And he actually is worried at one point because he thinks they're not going to know that they have a king and queen on the surface.

00:19:03.340 They're not going to know that they actually don't run this world.

00:19:05.960 And then he's calmed quickly by remembering maybe they're just here because Maladiel, God, delights in them.

00:19:13.120 He wants to see them here, and he's the real king.

00:19:16.060 And so Lewis, all through his fiction, including Till We Have Faces,

00:19:20.840 which is just a retelling of a Greek myth that I'm sure we'll talk about with Persephone and Cupid and Psyche,

00:19:25.960 and how you have to actually descend into this world, and there's a whole other world within just because God likes it.

00:19:33.640 And it would be a glory for man to discover more of it.

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00:21:13.460 America is a country that was founded for the purpose of allowing Christians to do their 0.60

00:21:16.620 duty before God and not to have their consciences ruled by the doctrines and commandments of

00:21:20.340 men.

00:21:21.240 Reese Fund exists in order to see the Ten Commandments properly applied,

00:21:24.960 not just as a plaque on the wall, but to actually be used in business

00:21:28.280 as though they're commandments from God that we're supposed to obey.

00:21:31.980 Our goal is to find businesses and to buy them and to build them up.

00:21:36.660 We want to find manufacturing businesses and use them

00:21:39.720 to make sure that we can maintain our capacity to do things here.

00:21:43.520 Reese Fund, Christian Capital, Boldly Deployed.

00:21:46.360 too often modern science scientism and scientific rationalism and the way that we think about the

00:21:54.000 world is we ask the question of what and how pretty pervasively and that's good that's that's

00:22:00.700 a proverbs 25 2 it's the glory of god to conceal thing it's the glory of kings to search the thing

00:22:05.500 out we have this instinct deep within us that even those who deny god's very being can't escape the

00:22:11.660 instinct to ask why and how, or what and how. But what they fail to ask is often why, because they

00:22:18.360 don't believe there is a why. They don't believe that anything is for anything at all. It just is.

00:22:24.440 But what Lewis understood as a medieval, what Lewis understood is that everything is for

00:22:30.320 something. And so we shouldn't just be asking of nature, what is it and how does it work? We should

00:22:35.760 also be asking what would please God? What would be glorious? What would blow your mind?

00:22:40.160 To the symphony of creation.

00:22:42.540 What would be just over the top

00:22:45.220 in terms of beauty and glory and intricacy.

00:22:48.940 And we're so used to some of these things

00:22:50.920 that we actually already know about

00:22:52.460 that we don't realize

00:22:54.820 that they are all absolutely mind-blowingly incredible.

00:22:59.220 We talk about Ben and I are writing a book right now

00:23:02.340 for Haunted Cosmos.

00:23:03.500 And one of the things we explore quite a bit in the book

00:23:06.260 is just this idea of,

00:23:08.060 okay, the world is not just stuff, but the world also is stuff. And the stuff is pretty

00:23:12.920 magnificent. You know, when you think about something like, I don't know, a grasshopper

00:23:17.720 that has this insane mechanical mechanism in its leg, that it can leap the equivalent of you

00:23:24.300 standing still and jumping a football field. It can do that. And it has its nose in its stomach

00:23:32.420 and it can't, you know, it's tone deaf, apparently. And we've learned all these things about this

00:23:36.440 little tiny grasshopper that most of us walk over or crunch under feet and don't think, we don't

00:23:41.380 think that much. And I just think, what if you were the inventor of the grasshopper? Like, would

00:23:46.040 you bring that up at parties? You'd want people to notice like the grasshopper. And that's just

00:23:51.420 a tiny little thing. Imagine now worlds and planets and the workings of the spheres of the

00:23:57.040 heavens and the medieval mind, they asked the why, and we need to recover. That's why Lewis is so

00:24:03.400 great. That's why Tolkien is so great. But they also asked the why from a fundamental understanding

00:24:07.980 of the world that it's not efficiency and pragmatism. It's actually, it's rich. It's beauty

00:24:15.060 and glory. It's like the backdrop of this set. It's not just some drywall and some paint. You

00:24:21.540 got trim, you got wainscoting, you got paintings, you have books. That's how the world actually is.

00:24:25.760 I think we can agree that minimalism is gay. Minimalism is fake. I think we just agree. 1.00

00:24:29.480 And in Christendom, it will be condemned.

00:24:32.660 Yep.

00:24:33.320 As a capital.

00:24:34.320 When we get our Protestant, Franco, no more brutalism. 0.55

00:24:39.400 God didn't make a brutalist grasshopper. 0.75

00:24:42.060 No, no. 0.97

00:24:42.680 Yeah, so the modern materialist is arrogant

00:24:45.660 and often with a subject like this would ask the question,

00:24:48.940 who cares?

00:24:49.700 Yeah, who cares about this?

00:24:50.660 And we want to ask and urge and encourage 0.98

00:24:53.800 and challenge Christians to ask, why not? 0.90

00:24:56.980 Yeah. 0.96

00:24:57.500 Instead of who cares, why not?

00:24:59.080 Why not?

00:24:59.320 Until you prove otherwise, I'm going to hold to,

00:25:03.240 not definitively claim that this is empirical

00:25:06.280 because I don't have the evidence to support that.

00:25:08.740 But in terms of what's possible,

00:25:10.860 I'm going within the depths of my God-given imagination,

00:25:15.600 I'm going to assume the most glorious scenario

00:25:19.240 because that gels better with my understanding

00:25:21.720 from the biblical text of the character and nature of God

00:25:23.920 than anything that's bland.

00:25:26.000 God is not boring.

00:25:27.280 And so unless you can tell me

00:25:28.260 that there's not a world beneath this world

00:25:30.000 where dinosaurs and dragons and sea serpents

00:25:32.680 and unicorns still exist,

00:25:34.960 then I'm going to say it's possible.

00:25:38.080 In fact, knowing what I know about the character of God,

00:25:40.940 I'm going to say that it might even be plausible.

00:25:43.700 And knowing what we know about the historical record,

00:25:46.520 where it's not just in the Bible that we hear about Sheol.

00:25:49.700 It's all over history.

00:25:52.220 Every culture had an underworld.

00:25:54.560 And every culture started from one family, 0.95

00:25:57.260 from Noah after the flood.

00:25:59.060 And so it would make sense

00:26:00.300 that we have rhyming and harmony

00:26:01.840 and slight twisting and corruption

00:26:04.340 from the true story of Christianity.

00:26:07.520 The true myth.

00:26:08.020 But that doesn't mean

00:26:08.600 that all of them are nonsense.

00:26:09.960 Right.

00:26:10.300 That actually means that all of them

00:26:11.400 are based on something real.

00:26:13.360 Right.

00:26:13.740 And you don't just lose the element of real.

00:26:16.880 All of them are embellishments

00:26:18.160 or corruptions.

00:26:21.760 They're lies made up of partial truths.

00:26:24.020 So let's go there now.

00:26:24.860 So let's talk about,

00:26:25.840 so that's hollow earth.

00:26:27.260 and that's creatures, plausible creatures within a world, under the world.

00:26:31.900 Now let's talk about Sheol, right?

00:26:34.180 And as we talk about Sheol, let's talk about the spiritual component.

00:26:37.560 But the big thing that we want to get at with Sheol

00:26:39.700 is that the very real possibility that Sheol is not just has a spiritual component,

00:26:45.080 but it's quite literal, actually within the earth.

00:26:49.120 That there actually is a place called Sheol,

00:26:52.300 chasms, physical, literal chasms under the earth.

00:26:55.920 And that this was the dominant view for a very long time

00:26:59.840 until all of a sudden the smartest generation was born.

00:27:03.660 So you can say that we're the first people 0.99

00:27:05.820 who weren't stupid to ever live. 0.99

00:27:09.360 Well, that's just true. 1.00

00:27:10.780 Which is a very arrogant position to take.

00:27:13.400 Or you can say these guys,

00:27:16.780 it's worth exploring their ideas.

00:27:18.680 And for them, the world's not just stuff.

00:27:21.260 So certainly they're gonna say it has a spiritual component.

00:27:23.960 But they also weren't Gnostics.

00:27:25.920 See, that's the thing.

00:27:26.640 We don't want to be materials.

00:27:27.780 We also don't want to be Gnostics.

00:27:28.880 So they would say, it's not just stuff. 0.99

00:27:30.340 There's a spiritual component.

00:27:31.520 It's not just spirit.

00:27:32.740 There's a literal component. 0.99

00:27:34.660 Hell beneath, Sheol in this case, 0.93

00:27:36.860 Sheol beneath, heavens above, 0.77

00:27:39.460 and a literal sense of the heavens being out there somewhere

00:27:43.040 and hell actually being beneath our feet.

00:27:46.400 So Sheol, Ben, Brian, can we talk about that?

00:27:49.260 Well, even if you just take,

00:27:51.720 I mean, she's probably defined her terms a little bit.

00:27:53.360 Sheol is a word in the Old Testament in Hebrew that's used as literally to speak about the grave, but also as the abode of the dead.

00:28:02.480 Right.

00:28:02.760 Like you might think of it as an underworld in other mythological accounts of similar ideas.

00:28:09.720 And it has many different components in scripture.

00:28:12.080 You can read in, it appears in Jonah is talking about going to Sheol in Psalm 86.

00:28:16.700 there's many passages in the Old Testament

00:28:18.820 that where Sheol is given multiple dimensions

00:28:21.880 to its like multiple features to its reality.

00:28:25.660 At minimum, it's certainly the grave

00:28:27.900 in the sense that human beings go into the earth when we die.

00:28:32.900 So at the minimum, we go into the earth, we're buried.

00:28:37.120 The curse of the serpent is to eat the grave.

00:28:40.340 It's to eat dirt.

00:28:41.560 It's to eat the dust 1.00

00:28:42.600 because his abode will ultimately be Sheol. 1.00

00:28:46.260 It will be the grave. 0.79

00:28:47.580 He will be the one who's cast into the lake of fire.

00:28:50.520 There's an element of suffering

00:28:52.140 and of, in some conceptions like fire

00:28:56.020 and heat and darkness.

00:28:58.300 And it's a place where, you know,

00:29:01.960 essentially where people are, in the Psalms, for example,

00:29:05.200 pleading with God to rescue. 1.00

00:29:07.380 Don't leave my soul to Sheol. 1.00

00:29:10.800 Abandon me. 1.00

00:29:11.240 In Psalm 16, I said it's music. I should remember it. The metrical 1650

00:29:19.520 translates it to, my soul, thou will not leave in hell, nor suffer wilt thou too. Leave thy

00:29:26.440 holy one in sepulcher, or corruption, leave thereto, something like that. And it's clearly

00:29:32.840 a messianic Psalm in that later they say, well, David saw corruption, who wrote that,

00:29:38.100 but Jesus did not. We see in the biblical record that Jesus goes into Sheol, which we preserve in

00:29:44.960 our creeds, that Jesus descended into hell and he led captivity captive. So that his body was

00:29:52.220 buried in the sepulcher. And then in a sense, that's Sheol, but that his spirit actually

00:29:55.860 descended beyond that. And we're saying that it's absolutely plausible that his spirit descended in

00:30:00.720 a literal sense to the belly of the earth beyond much deeper than the grave. And that in that place

00:30:06.680 that there were literal chasms divided into certain parts.

00:30:10.480 One, a place of paradise, Abraham's bosom,

00:30:13.180 that were not yet in heaven with God

00:30:15.980 because the way had not yet been attained.

00:30:18.620 So now Christ is leading a host of captives.

00:30:21.640 So they weren't tormented there.

00:30:22.900 They were in a place of paradise,

00:30:24.580 separated by a chasm between those who were in torment.

00:30:26.860 Uncrossable.

00:30:27.740 Exactly.

00:30:29.020 But then Jesus now,

00:30:30.800 we would say that Old Testament saints

00:30:32.400 have been transferred now in heaven.

00:30:34.120 And those who have died since the cross, that they're now in heaven as well.

00:30:38.980 To be absent in the body is to be present with the Lord.

00:30:41.260 But before that, the idea is not just a spiritual component,

00:30:45.220 but in a literal component that Jesus in the Spirit,

00:30:47.520 so body in the grave for three days, in the Spirit descended

00:30:51.120 and proclaimed his victory, not giving a second chance or offer of redemption,

00:30:57.020 but a Christ-like nanny-nanny-boo-boo announcement.

00:31:01.360 I told you so. 0.61

00:31:01.980 I told you so.

00:31:02.680 shaming these spirits, putting them to open shame

00:31:07.200 and then leading a host of captives,

00:31:11.260 the saints, the righteous.

00:31:13.080 But that's actually not just a spiritual concept,

00:31:15.980 but that it actually might be a place beneath our feet.

00:31:18.760 And we get that from in the writings of Samuel,

00:31:20.600 we hear about Saul going to visit the witch of Endor.

00:31:24.140 And he's asking the witch to divine for him

00:31:27.500 the ghost of Samuel.

00:31:29.540 And she's surprised when she realizes that,

00:31:31.940 oh, oops, it's actually the ghost of Samuel. It was supposed to be my familiar spirit and it's

00:31:36.340 not. Don't do DMT, kids. And so Samuel rises up. Out of the earth. Out of the earth. And that

00:31:45.040 matters because he's dead. Right. Where was he? He was down there. He was in the earth. And here's

00:31:51.360 the thing. He's a spirit. It doesn't matter. No, he's a spirit. Just because you're a spirit does

00:31:56.820 not make you omnipresent. No one is omnipresent apart from God. So spirits are geographically

00:32:01.900 bound. They're somewhere. They are in a place. And so Samuel rises from the earth. You couple

00:32:07.700 that with the parable in Matthew's gospel of Lazarus and the rich man. And you hear how the

00:32:14.620 rich man is separated from Lazarus by a chasm that he can't cross. And yet Lazarus and Abraham

00:32:20.120 can see him and hear him. And he can do the same. He can see them and hear them. And that is

00:32:26.500 Abraham's bosom. And so now that Christ has ascended to the right hand of God, now that the

00:32:31.160 work of salvation has been accomplished, he led Abraham's bosom, this paradise neighborhood of

00:32:36.740 Sheol is what I've called it. It's a neighborhood of Sheol that's, you know, paradisal. And he has

00:32:42.600 led that now to where Paul is right in saying that when he dies, his spirit is in the presence

00:32:47.540 of the Lord. Be with the Lord. Right. Who is seated at the right hand of the Father. So obviously,

00:32:52.640 Christ is not still in Sheol. Right. And when we think about the way that the scriptures speak 0.63

00:32:56.920 about these things, we tend to insert hidden premises of spiritual allegory and metaphor

00:33:02.500 in sometimes ways that are uninterrogated, where the scriptures speak about the third heavens,

00:33:09.640 and the third heaven, and the scriptures speak about the belly of the earth.

00:33:13.520 And then we just sort of translate that immediately in our modern conceptions of

00:33:18.900 the spiritual and the physical. We tend to conceive of them not being nested together,

00:33:23.100 but being totally kind of hermetically sealed

00:33:25.620 separated realms in a way

00:33:27.240 where it's like, oh, you're in heaven.

00:33:28.680 Where is heaven?

00:33:29.240 Well, it's nowhere.

00:33:30.360 It's spirit.

00:33:31.140 So it's nowhere.

00:33:31.960 It's strictly on a 17th dimension,

00:33:34.820 ethereal plane outside of the universe

00:33:38.080 instead of, but what if it's in the universe?

00:33:40.740 And yet Christ ascends,

00:33:42.760 as we were talking about last night in the hotel lobby,

00:33:45.500 Christ ascends in his bodily form

00:33:48.540 until he's hidden by a cloud.

00:33:50.760 Yes.

00:33:50.940 And that's not a metaphor.

00:33:53.100 Right.

00:33:53.580 He goes up into the clouds.

00:33:55.480 And Paul says he gets a vision of the third heaven

00:33:57.820 or whether he's caught up there bodily.

00:33:59.180 He doesn't know.

00:33:59.900 Even he doesn't know.

00:34:01.120 But he's caught up.

00:34:02.940 His spirit is caught up or his body's caught up.

00:34:04.580 But in the case of Jesus, this is why it's significant.

00:34:06.280 So Jesus now has his glorified body

00:34:09.400 and he appears to the disciples

00:34:10.820 and appears to over 500 eyewitnesses

00:34:13.560 and has multiple appearances.

00:34:15.220 And in these appearances,

00:34:16.620 we can tell that Jesus in his glorified body,

00:34:20.040 so same body that was buried, but now made new.

00:34:22.520 So not a new body, meaning another body, but same body, but glorified, made new.

00:34:27.040 And that's a resurrection.

00:34:28.300 Like in the case of other people who were resurrected,

00:34:30.660 the more technical and accurate word would be a revivification, right?

00:34:34.600 So like Lazarus is not glorified.

00:34:38.000 Still a seed.

00:34:38.920 He's revived, but it kind of sucks to be Lazarus,

00:34:42.740 but he just ends up having to die twice.

00:34:45.280 But Jesus is raised as a first fruits.

00:34:47.800 So otherwise, if it's not different, the resurrection and revivification being distinct,

00:34:53.620 then Jesus wouldn't be the first fruits.

00:34:55.540 Lazarus and other, even before that, Elijah raising this woman's son.

00:34:59.940 There would be other guys who would be first fruits because there were other resurrections.

00:35:03.200 But rightly viewed, they're not being glorified.

00:35:05.780 It's revivications, coming back from the dead, but with the same body.

00:35:09.820 Jesus is coming back with the same body, but now in a glorified state.

00:35:13.020 And in that glorified state, in his appearances with the apostles, he can appear with doors being locked.

00:35:20.560 And he can vanish.

00:35:21.380 And vanish.

00:35:22.680 Now, there's also the physical, literal component.

00:35:24.780 He can eat fish, and you could touch the wounds in his side or in his hands.

00:35:29.860 He can be seen.

00:35:30.740 He can be touched.

00:35:31.520 He can digest.

00:35:32.680 He can eat.

00:35:33.720 But he also can, whether it's walking through the door or just vanishing out of, you know, or appearing out of thin air and then vanishing.

00:35:41.620 But here's the point as it goes back to the ascension.

00:35:45.020 In our creeds, and in more importantly,

00:35:47.520 scripture that the creeds are based upon,

00:35:49.460 why don't we have the incarnation, the life, the death,

00:35:52.520 the burial, the resurrection, and the vanishing of Christ?

00:35:55.500 That last part, if you're listening closely, dear listener,

00:35:59.020 that last part, that was a trick.

00:36:00.960 We don't have the vanishing of Christ.

00:36:02.320 We have the ascension.

00:36:03.660 And in the ascension, think about that.

00:36:05.160 He physically lifts from the, because he could just vanish.

00:36:07.760 He's already proven that he could do that.

00:36:09.300 Just vanish and go to the 17th dimension.

00:36:11.220 right? Because you can't, ascending would be of no avail. That doesn't help you because it's not

00:36:15.300 a place that's above or below. It's on another plane. It's strictly spiritual, but that's not

00:36:19.300 what happens. He physically lifts up off the ground, ascends, and only becomes no longer visible

00:36:25.860 because he just lifts for a while and then vanishes. He goes in a cloud. No, he gets behind

00:36:31.580 a cloud and visibility is obstructed. It's perfectly plausible to assume that he continues

00:36:37.480 to ascend, going somewhere, someplace, and he's seated now. He's forever the God-man, right? So

00:36:44.960 Jesus is in the flesh forevermore, and his flesh is seated on a throne, flesh, physical flesh,

00:36:51.300 seated on a physical throne at God's right hand. We don't know exactly where. Certainly a place

00:36:57.060 where the spiritual component, I think, is heightened from our earthly existence and

00:37:01.980 heightened to a degree and in certain measures and ways that we can't comprehend at this point.

00:37:06.900 but to say that it's only spiritual,

00:37:08.840 that there's no physical component to angels or to heaven.

00:37:13.000 Now, God himself, the Father and the Spirit

00:37:15.100 are most pure spirits without body parts and passions.

00:37:17.540 The Son is both the divine nature and the human nature,

00:37:21.220 but to say that heaven, not speaking of God,

00:37:24.140 but heaven and angelic beings,

00:37:26.460 that there's no physical element whatsoever,

00:37:28.800 is such a leap and an assumption beyond the biblical narrative

00:37:32.660 that I think it reeks of arrogance.

00:37:34.720 It's us translating, again, that hermetic seal

00:37:39.120 between the physical and the spiritual

00:37:41.360 instead of seeing them as nested together.

00:37:45.760 And that's actually a good thing,

00:37:47.720 that God wanted it to be that way.

00:37:50.240 It's why when you look at,

00:37:52.640 I come back to the medievals a lot

00:37:54.580 and Lewis's understanding of the medievals,

00:37:56.940 I think because of his understanding of the medieval mind,

00:37:59.880 that was not, it had errors,

00:38:02.040 but not the same ones that we have.

00:38:03.880 So it's very valuable to read them

00:38:05.400 because when you look at the way they saw the world,

00:38:09.200 you discover that when they looked at the idea

00:38:16.980 of even let's say heaven

00:38:18.160 and Lewis in the Great Divorce does this well

00:38:20.060 and it's then translated into the last battle in Narnia

00:38:23.360 where of course, love not the things of this world

00:38:27.580 for the things of this world are passing away.

00:38:30.380 Don't marry yourself to this fallen creation.

00:38:34.420 It is passing away.

00:38:35.540 And yet, I think Lewis conceptualized this well

00:38:38.380 when he saw it as the door to the old Narnia closing,

00:38:43.560 but then everything true and good and beautiful,

00:38:46.060 the real true Narnia,

00:38:47.600 it's not a floaty 17th dimensional spiritual place.

00:38:51.540 It's a new heavens and new earth.

00:38:53.540 It's real.

00:38:54.520 They're going up, come further up and further in,

00:38:57.080 into the mountain.

00:38:57.660 In The Great Divorce, it's as if the world that we,

00:39:02.300 that the fallenness and the world is passing away,

00:39:06.120 he almost conceives of it as like shrink.

00:39:07.660 It's so tiny.

00:39:08.400 It's almost, it's like a dust moat.

00:39:09.860 It's insignificant.

00:39:11.060 And then you come up into the heaven

00:39:12.600 and it's like, it's true.

00:39:14.460 There's true color and there's true beauty.

00:39:16.920 And there's like, to me,

00:39:18.940 that is a much more rich understanding

00:39:21.900 of the physical and spiritual

00:39:23.740 and the nesting together of the two

00:39:25.120 than the way we often translate.

00:39:26.920 And that, you know, at one point, one of the characters further up and further in, it's all in Plato.

00:39:31.220 And the only thing, and I think there's something in Plato.

00:39:33.600 The only thing I would add to that is, and it's all in Plato.

00:39:36.200 And a good bit is also in Aristotle.

00:39:38.900 Because the difference with what we, where I would disagree with C.S. Lewis and his conception,

00:39:44.040 this is the last battle of the final, the Chronicles of Narnia series,

00:39:47.000 is I would say that I think Lewis got it right, but he only got half of it right.

00:39:52.480 The other half is, but then eventually the old Narnia that you're mourning.

00:39:56.920 that one was actually also real.

00:39:58.860 It was not just something that was a signpost

00:40:00.780 pointing to the true form,

00:40:02.440 the reality that existed in a true form somewhere else.

00:40:05.160 But the true form was also physical and literal,

00:40:07.400 not just a metaphor.

00:40:09.140 So the form is real, but also this is real.

00:40:11.600 And that the final thing is that Aslan comes back

00:40:14.640 to this world that's been iced over

00:40:16.700 and eaten bare by dragons and father time

00:40:19.100 and then makes that one real too.

00:40:21.060 And it even dwarfs in magnificence the other one,

00:40:24.500 and then we come back there.

00:40:25.900 Like that was being caught up, right?

00:40:28.400 The world is remade.

00:40:29.540 And then the new city descends upon you.

00:40:31.740 We'll have to have a Joel, a Joel Webin, right?

00:40:34.380 Response.

00:40:35.600 Farnia?

00:40:37.500 Charnia?

00:40:38.140 I mean, well, charn is not good. 0.97

00:40:39.980 You don't want charn.

00:40:41.200 You don't want to be, you don't want to be. 1.00

00:40:42.440 Yeah, the white witch, that's not good. 0.98

00:40:43.840 All right, that's it, guys. 0.98

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00:43:06.980 so okay so that's all right so what we've done so far is we've given you an outline we started

00:43:14.560 with lewis right that's just a good start cold open if you didn't like that then you know what

00:43:18.320 just i'm sorry guys you know just get out of here i'm sorry careful consideration i tried to talk

00:43:23.840 everyone in to starting with tolkien in the halls of mandos but joel said no because he hates the

00:43:29.920 simmarillion the simmarillion i'm sure it's amazing but it's just uh it's just beyond me

00:43:34.880 That's also a lie, I didn't actually.

00:43:36.200 I'm more of a Hobbit and Lord of the Rings guy,

00:43:38.220 you know, just a normie, I'm just a normie.

00:43:40.340 But okay, so we started with BISM, C.S. Lewis,

00:43:42.660 that got us to Hollow Earth.

00:43:43.780 We gave both the theory in a 30,000 foot view

00:43:46.900 and some of the key players.

00:43:48.300 Then we moved from that to Sheol

00:43:49.880 and we've talked about that now.

00:43:51.380 Now we wanna move back to kind of Hollow Earth,

00:43:53.780 but also some conceptions of Sheol,

00:43:55.760 some conceptions of BISM,

00:43:57.240 a little bit of Middle Earth,

00:43:58.260 get it all in there, primary water.

00:44:00.660 That's one thing that we haven't,

00:44:01.700 And then we'll end with three, primary water,

00:44:05.440 just for the record, if we were gauging here

00:44:08.380 in terms of, we're saying it's all possible,

00:44:10.120 some plausible, but if we were gauging percentages,

00:44:13.840 if we were betting men and we were taking bets

00:44:15.720 on hollow earth theory as conceptualized by a bird,

00:44:21.120 I'd say, I'll put it at like a 40%, possible.

00:44:26.180 I'll put it at a 40%.

00:44:28.100 I was gonna say 2.4%.

00:44:30.340 Okay, two points.

00:44:31.160 But none of us are giving it a zero.

00:44:33.420 No, no, no, no.

00:44:34.100 And none of us are giving it over 50.

00:44:35.520 So you're saying there's a chance.

00:44:36.600 I'm saying the concept of hollow earth

00:44:39.220 as in a richly cavernous earth

00:44:42.700 with a lot of wide spaces.

00:44:44.560 That one I'm putting in, I was going to say 90.

00:44:47.960 I genuinely fully believe that that's true.

00:44:50.120 But then the primary water thing.

00:44:51.720 But then that's my point.

00:44:52.740 So I just want the listener to be aware this matters.

00:44:54.420 So like if we're saying King Kong level

00:44:57.660 journey to the center of the earth,

00:44:59.640 that's where i'm putting 40 yeah i'm still giving it 40 he's still giving it 40 crazy and i want the

00:45:06.060 listener to appreciate that that's all that's a hopeful you have that's abraham hoping against

00:45:10.040 hope you have haunted cosmos on your show joel and we are just out hoping you guys yeah so so

00:45:18.000 putting that at 40 we got a 2.5 over there we've got a of the full monty 10 uh of the bird

00:45:24.360 conception like literally zero okay but i'm saying like definitely creatures definitely

00:45:31.260 ocean so the thousands of the deep yeah exactly so then the hollow earth conception that still

00:45:36.920 could support a heat light vegetation creatures even large creatures large creatures dragons

00:45:42.500 sea serpents but porous like the bone structure thing that the of course everybody knows it as

00:45:47.320 the ben garrett shock uh system right everyone travels travel from one place to another via

00:45:53.200 caverns and underground waterways and things.

00:45:56.880 So that one we're putting 90 to 100%.

00:45:58.660 But here's the last one that I just want you guys to see here

00:46:01.640 in terms of comparison.

00:46:04.020 Primary water theory, this is not us just like,

00:46:06.680 it's so true, King, you know, and having fun.

00:46:09.220 Primary water theory, I think, is, if it's not 100, it's 99.9.

00:46:13.240 And the reason is important.

00:46:14.340 And we're going to spell it out here in just a moment.

00:46:16.460 Because the reason is that,

00:46:17.940 and we're going to do this in this episode, right?

00:46:19.560 Right, right now.

00:46:20.460 We're about to do it.

00:46:21.060 The reason this is important

00:46:22.240 that listeners need to understand.

00:46:23.380 A lot of this is because

00:46:24.460 when we approach our view of the world

00:46:27.000 through a disenchanted materialist lens

00:46:29.920 and we tell the materialist story of all things,

00:46:33.300 of us, the world, and all things,

00:46:36.060 then you end up having to start

00:46:38.080 with certain presuppositions.

00:46:39.900 Things like the universe is, you know,

00:46:42.640 it's 14, 17, 19.

00:46:44.280 It gets more billions of years old every day.

00:46:46.520 They got to push it back further.

00:46:47.960 They have to give these vast periods of time,

00:46:50.460 vast amounts of completely cold, dead space

00:46:52.460 that can eventually just by tooth and nail

00:46:55.900 that can produce life on earth

00:46:58.900 in these vast geological ages.

00:47:00.920 And there's no benevolent, caring God.

00:47:02.840 In no sense is the earth for people.

00:47:05.020 In no sense is any of that true. 1.00

00:47:07.000 The Christian story is that though the world

00:47:09.880 and though creation is fallen and cursed,

00:47:12.100 that it was made for man.

00:47:14.000 Right. 0.81

00:47:14.580 And it was good.

00:47:15.800 And this primary water issue,

00:47:17.380 I think you're probably gonna define it for us here.

00:47:19.440 I'll spell it out.

00:47:19.680 It's one of those issues where a priori to me,

00:47:24.860 on the story level,

00:47:26.720 I'm more inclined to say,

00:47:29.320 that sounds more like what God was doing

00:47:32.380 than what the other story is.

00:47:33.700 Exactly, this one matters

00:47:36.040 because we're not just debating something

00:47:37.940 that would be cool or fascinating.

00:47:39.900 We're debating something that the very character of God

00:47:43.080 at some level is hinging.

00:47:47.080 Did God create a zero-sum game,

00:47:49.140 a fixed pie. And then, because remember, it's not just that God created, but one of the chief

00:47:54.180 commandments, the dominion mandate, the cultural mandate is be fruitful and multiply.

00:47:58.860 According to Bill Gates, God told us to do the very thing that ultimately would be our suicide,

00:48:06.200 our demise, right? And Bill Gates, you know, like, you know, according to Satan, right? Bill Gates,

00:48:11.420 Satan, you know, tomato, tomato. I didn't hear, like, corporate needs you to show the difference

00:48:15.320 they're the same picture yeah exactly so just to be clear we're not a fan but it matters with

00:48:20.900 the character of god we're believing no the pie can grow um that water is a renewable it's not

00:48:26.020 a finite resource um and that god baked that into the pond that is going to be renewed um and not

00:48:32.540 just can we have um more water because it's not finite that water just like fossil fuels right if

00:48:37.900 you're old earth and oh fossil fuels we only have this many because it takes this many millions of

00:48:42.080 years to produce. If it's 6,000 years, then fossil fuels are being renewed year by year.

00:48:48.980 So one, it breaks the overpopulation myth, and it is a myth. And it's a sinister demonic myth

00:48:55.340 that tries to get people to doubt the character of God and to disobey one of his clearest commands.

00:48:59.840 It's one that's taken root more powerfully in culture than many other myths.

00:49:03.180 Yes. So all this matters for the sake of the character of God. It's not just fun,

00:49:07.940 although it's very fun, and we'll get there in a moment. But it matters as the character of God,

00:49:11.380 What kind of God is he? Capricious? What kind of God are we talking about? Does he command his

00:49:17.320 children? Is he like Pharaoh? Is God like Pharaoh? He commands bricks, but gives no straw? Or is he

00:49:22.580 a benevolent God? And the world, even under the curse of sin, is still a magical, wonderful,

00:49:30.160 generous world that resources us with everything we need for obedience. Ben.

00:49:35.160 Yeah. I was going to try to frame how this connects to hollow earth in a way that has

00:49:40.460 helped me conceptualize of it. So if you take the medieval model too far, then you'll run into this

00:49:47.040 problem where once you go below the surface of the world, there's nothing good. Their idea was

00:49:53.500 that the curse goes only so far as concerns man. So it stops at the boundary of the moon. The light

00:49:59.380 side of the moon is the last cursed thing that we can see. And everything beyond it does not feel

00:50:04.700 the effect of the curse. It's in no need of redemption because it has always only ever been

00:50:09.940 holy, and it's heaven. And so, as you descend, the reason to them that the earth was the center

00:50:15.660 of the universe is not because they were narcissistic, is because the earth was the

00:50:19.440 heaviest thing because it was weighed down by sin. So, it sits at the center like a bowling

00:50:25.180 ball on a trampoline that takes away all the fun from everything else. And so, as you go to the

00:50:29.940 center of the earth, you get further and further and further away from holiness and closer to pure

00:50:35.220 corruption. That's why Dante has Satan sitting at the bottom of hell, which is the very center

00:50:40.340 of the earth, because that is the worst place that you could ever possibly be. And I think

00:50:46.080 that they were wrong to think that. I think that, first of all, I love that model. And I think it's

00:50:51.440 just beautiful. But I think that they took it too far when they say that once you descend to the

00:50:56.140 surface, it's only ever bad. There's nothing redeemable. There's nothing good. Descend beneath

00:51:00.780 the surface. Right. Once you descend beneath the surface, it won't even be redeemed. It's not worth

00:51:05.600 redeeming. We know that that's not true because Sheol used to contain a paradise. Right. We know

00:51:11.260 that under the world is goodness, that there's still light, that it's worthy of redemption as

00:51:16.440 well. And so that connects to the... The center of the earth, what you're arguing is both in a

00:51:21.580 metaphorical spiritual sense, but also a literal sense that the center of the earth is exactly like

00:51:26.640 the surface that there's both good and bad. It's not either or. So in the center, you have Abraham's

00:51:32.400 bosom, but then you also have Tardis. Yeah. And so Sheol will eventually be thrown into the lake 0.91

00:51:37.780 of fire. And I don't fully understand how the mechanics of that will work. But what I do know

00:51:41.820 is that Christ's lordship will be proclaimed from the river to the ends of the earth. And there's

00:51:46.300 nothing that makes me believe that that doesn't include underneath the surface. So with that in

00:51:52.840 mind and knowing that God's not capricious, there must be things in the earth that can help man

00:51:58.920 in obeying God and in realizing Christ's Lordship as it concerns him.

00:52:05.720 And this same theological principle, and we're starting with a theological principle and then

00:52:09.620 getting to physical and literal applications, but the same theological principle that you're

00:52:14.500 espousing works for what's beneath the earth. It also works from what's above. And the same way

00:52:19.260 that we're going to say certain minerals and certain products

00:52:21.440 and things like that, and then primary water

00:52:22.880 is where we're going to hang our hat.

00:52:24.300 But within the earth, under the earth,

00:52:26.440 that there are things that are necessary and good

00:52:28.760 and benevolent under the earth.

00:52:30.860 Likewise, who is to say that there aren't certain meteorites

00:52:35.180 with trillions of dollars, and this has actually been proven,

00:52:37.780 but trillions of dollars worth of resources

00:52:39.500 in terms of minerals and certain metals, precious metals,

00:52:43.220 that we don't have on earth that are different densities,

00:52:46.380 that you can make different things.

00:52:47.680 Think about this.

00:52:48.300 You have Stone Age and then Bronze Age and then Iron and these kinds of things.

00:52:54.180 And with each of these discoveries, you have new worlds, new civilizations.

00:52:58.440 It's like turning a whole chapter in the story of humanity based off of technological discovery

00:53:03.500 that if you boil it down to the simplest form is substance.

00:53:06.140 They discovered a new substance.

00:53:07.960 Even the Tower of Babel, you have a technological innovation, namely the brick.

00:53:14.560 We've discovered the cutting-edge technological advancement, the brick.

00:53:18.300 We can build a tower to the heavens.

00:53:19.860 And I think there was probably a lot more going on

00:53:21.680 than just bricks, but that was part of it.

00:53:23.300 It's more than that, but not less.

00:53:25.080 And then later on, you know, stone age, fire, wheel,

00:53:28.440 all this, and then even now you say,

00:53:30.160 well, we're beyond that now.

00:53:31.260 No, we're not.

00:53:32.040 We're in the Silicon Age.

00:53:33.520 It's still a substance.

00:53:35.060 And it's a substance that can be divided in a certain way,

00:53:37.780 razor thin with certain flexible properties,

00:53:40.380 but also durability that allows for your phone in your pocket.

00:53:45.840 And who's to say silicon is the end?

00:53:48.540 It's not.

00:53:48.720 Well, we tend to conceive of the next advance

00:53:51.360 as a better of what we currently have.

00:53:53.940 So people tended to think of the next advance in travel

00:53:56.780 to be a better horse and buggy.

00:53:58.880 Right.

00:53:59.380 They couldn't conceive of an internal combustion engine.

00:54:03.380 So we're not just talking about better silicon chip.

00:54:05.880 The next thing, it's difficult to conceive of it

00:54:08.040 because we haven't made the necessary technological discovery,

00:54:11.580 the glory that got hid somewhere,

00:54:13.340 down in the depths or up in a meteor.

00:54:15.840 And the next one, who's to say that it might not take us

00:54:21.060 the same leap that computing took us from?

00:54:23.840 Because all we've been doing for several decades at this point,

00:54:26.620 but still less than 100 years,

00:54:28.200 but it's a relatively short span of time.

00:54:30.380 But all we've been doing is just better and better applications of silicon.

00:54:34.720 Doubling the computing power at a predictable rate.

00:54:37.280 We've been turning the page,

00:54:38.620 but I'm talking about turning the chapter.

00:54:40.300 Yeah, a new chapter altogether.

00:54:42.520 Can I introduce the water issue here?

00:54:44.900 Okay, so the story, the materialist story of the Earth is just this very long, horrific kind of formation over a long, long, long period of time as, you know, dust and rocks and all this stuff in space coalesces into the Earth and then gets hot enough from its density.

00:54:59.800 And then, well, where'd all the water come from?

00:55:01.920 Right.

00:55:02.160 Eventually.

00:55:02.700 So that the goo could eventually make people that would then think about how the goo made people really, you know, strange.

00:55:08.240 and the idea that they've come up with over again needing billions and billions of years

00:55:15.020 is that most of it came from outer space that it came from impacts from celestial bodies

00:55:22.500 that brought water with them or materials that in the process of striking the earth

00:55:26.860 hydrogen and oxygen became the oceans and that this was a vast amount of time that it took for

00:55:33.840 this to take place and that therefore the only water that's that's on earth is the water that

00:55:39.640 we already have unless we get more meteors but this happens very slowly and that all we have is

00:55:44.200 the hydrological cycle right where water evaporates into the clouds rains down goes into aquifers

00:55:49.960 rivers goes into the ocean evaporates out the thing you learned in elementary school so water

00:55:54.940 is it's the same water since the very beginning so even from a young earth conception which we

00:55:59.980 would hold to, all of your water that you're drinking is 6,000 years old and it's recycled.

00:56:04.580 And that's all there is. It's finite and old recycled. And the vast majority of it is salinated

00:56:09.360 and not drinkable without desalination. And with the vast majority, there's no, there's no perfect

00:56:14.280 efficiency. We live in a cursed world. So with every recycling, you're losing some. There's

00:56:19.640 degradation and loss. Exactly. So it's finite. We're losing some. That's where, you know, guys

00:56:24.080 would, you know, we'll say water is the most precious and scarce resource. And it's all this

00:56:27.820 fear-mongering Mad Max kind of scenario and overpopulation myth, you know, and this is why

00:56:32.840 we need euthanasia. This is why we need abortion. This is why you shouldn't have kids. This is why 0.77

00:56:36.900 you should get a vasectomy when you're 20. This is like, I mean, we're talking about demonic people 0.85

00:56:40.980 with demonic ideas, but they're basing it like one of the, is on a scare tactic, right? Where

00:56:46.440 did their ideas actually find their power, their leverage to where people would buy into it and do

00:56:51.580 these, you know, actually believe the Bill Gates of the world? Well, that by convincing everyone

00:56:57.020 that it's scarce, that it's finite.

00:56:58.920 You know, if we have more people,

00:57:00.080 then you won't have water to drink.

00:57:02.180 And primary water theory,

00:57:04.200 so my point is there is actually an incentive

00:57:06.580 from wicked people in high places of power, 0.98

00:57:10.000 the regime, trash world, 0.99

00:57:11.700 whatever you want to call them, 0.99

00:57:12.580 the Nephilim, right? 0.99

00:57:13.740 The DMTers, you know, the communers with devils. 1.00

00:57:16.440 These people actually have a vested interest, right? 1.00

00:57:19.960 When you're judging conspiracies, right?

00:57:21.820 Because number one,

00:57:23.880 we found out in the last three years

00:57:25.120 and some of us, you know, already knew,

00:57:26.680 but even the normies are waking up and realizing the last three years that a lot of things that

00:57:30.660 were called conspiracies were actually true. Now that said, that doesn't mean that every

00:57:34.280 conspiracy is true. There are such a thing as things that are just not true. But when I'm

00:57:38.940 trying to gauge, even from like a pastoral standpoint, when I'm dealing with someone,

00:57:42.420 they're saying, I'm doubting this. I'm suspicious of Blink. One of the first questions I ask is,

00:57:47.460 okay, so who's promoting Blink? And would this person or group of individuals who are promoting

00:57:53.800 Blink, do they, can we determine, just like solving a crime, a detective, can we determine

00:57:59.060 motive? Would they have a vested interest if Blink was believed by the masses? Would that somehow

00:58:05.980 serve them? Would they be given more power? Would they be given this? Would they be given? And the

00:58:10.980 answer is an emphatic yes. And so all that, so primary water theory, it's going against the

00:58:18.120 consensus that we've had for a very long time, the hydrological cycle, that it's the same water,

00:58:22.780 It's a limited resource, and it's going up in the clouds and coming back down.

00:58:26.220 And like you said, Ben, that most of it is undrinkable,

00:58:29.300 even with filtration systems and things like that,

00:58:31.380 and even fresh water that is drinkable.

00:58:34.260 It may not be saline like water in the Pacific Ocean,

00:58:37.500 but this is something that people don't consider.

00:58:39.640 It's not just chemicals and human corruption through pollution

00:58:43.040 and certain plastics and things like that,

00:58:46.420 but even water that is pure coming from a babbling brook

00:58:51.320 or in a natural river is still 6,000-year-old surface water

00:58:56.700 since the beginning that has been flowing over rocks

00:58:59.000 and minerals and vegetation and all these different things,

00:59:01.620 not just plastics, man-made components,

00:59:04.260 but even natural things, picking up fluoride

00:59:06.740 and picking up certain minerals and certain components.

00:59:08.880 Some of them, minerals may be good for you,

00:59:11.040 but some of them may be bad for you.

00:59:12.880 And for the same reason that when you drink,

00:59:14.440 you don't go out in the backyard

00:59:16.080 and grab a handful of dirt and put it in your water, right?

00:59:19.360 So 6,000 years of running over mountains, running underground, running over this, running over that, running over oil, running over, you know, all these different things that aren't necessarily advantageous to put in your body.

00:59:30.240 But what if, two big components here, what if water wasn't scarce but renewable?

00:59:35.720 That deep within the earth, through seismic shifts, pressure, heat, that hydrogen, oxygen, water was actually being made, and rather quickly.

00:59:45.200 and there were whole oceans of freshwater, not saltwater, but freshwater oceans beneath the

00:59:51.980 surface. And it's not just that there's more water, two big components. There's more water

00:59:57.760 than we know of, and it's new water, more and new. And what I mean by that, the new factor

01:00:05.040 is that if we could access it, where it doesn't, we don't have to wait a thousand years for it to

01:00:11.220 make its way to the surface. And it's picked up all these different minerals and different

01:00:14.580 components and chemicals and all the other stuff, even if there was no human, you know,

01:00:18.580 pollution. What if we could get water that's only, only even been in existence? It was made

01:00:25.540 last year. It's, it's, it's, it's new water. It's fresh water. The freshest water you've ever tasted.

01:00:33.220 Yeah. It's got that new water energy to this. Yeah. And what, what would that mean? So like,

01:00:39.940 so we want to talk about three components, restoration of, and we want to talk about

01:00:43.460 the lost city of Atlantis, restoration, beautifying the earth, if we have whole oceans,

01:00:49.700 underground oceans, freshwater oceans, and it's newer water, and that we could actualize those,

01:00:56.120 like what if the church of Jesus Christ, his hands and feet on earth, with everything that we do in

01:01:02.260 terms of preaching the gospel, evangelism, planting churches, but then also all of Christ

01:01:08.060 for all of life, not just in church life, but every realm of life in economics and vocation

01:01:12.900 in markets, in education, in medicine. But what if also even in cultivation and greenery,

01:01:19.180 that what if it is our destiny by God's grace and through his power that we eradicate deserts,

01:01:26.560 that the Sahara desert is, that maybe it takes a few hundred years, maybe it takes a few thousand,

01:01:32.920 but one day our descendants, our posterity and children's children would be reading history

01:01:37.940 books about deserts because they're no more. And they're reading it in a tropical paradise in the

01:01:44.540 Sahara. This used to be a desert, blah, blah, blah. So re-beautifying the world, also the

01:01:49.780 application of what about other worlds? Mars has polar ice caps and scientists, there's a consensus

01:01:55.040 that there's underwater oceans. What if that can be actualized, brought to the surface with certain

01:01:59.560 drilling equipment? But then the last thing is a fountain of youth, right? So I think it's just

01:02:04.900 such a fascinating story of, you know, that's right. Florida guy, Florida man. So if you could

01:02:12.420 tell the story, Ben, and then, but then us say that I think he was right. But what if it's not

01:02:18.080 a specific locale? What if the fountain of youth is beneath our feet now, albeit far beneath our

01:02:22.880 feet, but everywhere. And it's just getting to it. And that this water that there's not just more,

01:02:28.920 but it's newer water, healthier water. What if that's the ticket, not just medicine that comes

01:02:34.480 with a cost-benefit analysis.

01:02:36.720 It's like, you know, you take this pill,

01:02:38.760 you get better with this symptom,

01:02:39.940 but you develop this other one.

01:02:41.640 What if part of the way of getting back

01:02:43.940 to longer lifespans that we see,

01:02:46.880 not just in an antediluvian world before the flood,

01:02:49.260 but even after,

01:02:50.280 what if a lot of that has to do with water

01:02:52.980 and that the fountain of youth,

01:02:54.100 in a very literal sense, is real

01:02:56.040 and it's not just in one locale,

01:02:58.260 but it's everywhere and we just got to get there.

01:02:59.920 But, story time?

01:03:01.900 Yeah, Juan Ponce de Leon.

01:03:03.060 Yeah. This guy, so Spanish explorer, okay? And he's a Christian man. This is the height of

01:03:08.260 Christendom. They're trying to find new lands that they can spread the gospel in and share

01:03:12.600 the greenification of the Lord Jesus Christ, like what you're talking about. But one of Juan Ponce

01:03:18.120 de Leon's primary driving motivations behind his travels was finding the Fountain of Youth because

01:03:24.300 he believed that it existed. And one has to then ask the question, why did he believe that it

01:03:30.180 existed. And there's nothing where he wrote down in a diary like, this is why I think that the

01:03:35.740 fountain of youth exists. But a natural reading of the man and the times that he lived in would

01:03:40.980 be he believed that there was a fountain of youth because he believed what he said he believed,

01:03:44.960 the gospel. He believed that the church was the temple and that the river of Christ was flowing

01:03:51.260 out of the temple to water the entire world. And that as it went, it got thicker and wider and

01:03:55.660 deeper in it, and it enriched all the trees that were growing alongside of it. And all the birds

01:04:00.200 went and found nests in there. Maybe he believed Isaiah 65. Maybe he believed that the youth would

01:04:06.140 die at 100. And he wondered and asked himself, well, how could that possibly be? Because they

01:04:11.040 didn't have advanced medicine back then. They didn't have the nanny state of medicine that we

01:04:16.160 have now. This basically just modern witchcraft, by the way, in an attempt to avoid death at any

01:04:21.080 cost, twisting God's arm and twisting nature into means that are completely contrary to itself.

01:04:25.660 and to the living God, all in an attempt to avoid death for some and hasten death for others.

01:04:32.000 And still has a far cry.

01:04:33.540 And it still has failed.

01:04:34.780 Yeah. No one could say that modern medicine has got us to where we could, with a straight face,

01:04:39.100 say the youth dies at a hundred. 0.82

01:04:40.860 Right. And so then you have to ask, okay, well, maybe if that was the motivation,

01:04:47.300 why Florida? Why did he seem so keen and bullish on Florida and hopeful? Well,

01:04:52.680 It's because Florida has tons of springs.

01:04:55.860 It's the Lando Lakes.

01:04:57.060 That's your butter.

01:04:58.580 That's where it comes from.

01:04:59.580 It's the Lando Lakes in Florida.

01:05:01.320 And so he goes there and he finds all of these springs

01:05:03.400 and he's able to see like, well, maybe there is hope.

01:05:06.380 You know, he never found it.

01:05:07.820 He didn't, he wasn't immortal.

01:05:09.380 He died.

01:05:10.300 That we know of.

01:05:11.180 That we know of.

01:05:11.940 He could still be around, I guess.

01:05:13.100 That we know of.

01:05:13.720 That would.

01:05:14.240 I don't know.

01:05:14.840 That would actually.

01:05:15.540 In Nate Wilson's books, Ponce is still around.

01:05:18.680 Not a good guy.

01:05:20.000 Really?

01:05:20.260 But there was the turtle that he found.

01:05:22.680 that's immortal. Interesting. Transmortaled turtle. But I mean, this is actually not

01:05:26.620 history. This is Andy Wilson's Ashton burial series. There's a lot of religious connotations

01:05:30.460 in the turtle as well. And so now, we have to then ask the question, why Florida? And like I'm

01:05:38.460 saying that he's finding these springs and things like that. But then I think we should also go back

01:05:42.300 and say, is this allowed? Should we read Isaiah 65 and think, yes, literally, I want my son,

01:05:50.640 sons, sons, sons, sons, sons, sons, sons, daughter, sons, to die at a hundred and be considered a

01:05:55.740 child. Because we know that if it's literal, preferably to not die. But if he does, it's like

01:06:02.040 he's a young man. Right. Because if it's literal, we know that that's not the glorified state

01:06:06.620 because people are dying. Exactly. Stop there because people need to, a lot of people are not

01:06:11.380 familiar with, so here's the deal. Some of the listeners won't like this. Hear me. I'm saying,

01:06:17.200 I'm saying this humbly. I don't want to turn you off because I want you to listen to this.

01:06:20.260 And if your view is that Jesus is going to come back, most people who would profess to be followers

01:06:26.240 of Christ, and many of you listening really are, it's not just a mere profession, but by God's

01:06:30.460 grace, he saved you. You've been born again. You are a Christian and we thank God for you.

01:06:34.240 And right now, the dominant view of end times eschatology for Christians today in the West,

01:06:40.100 because of certain things like dispensationalism and Darby and these things that are relatively

01:06:44.280 new theological ideas in the last 150 years. Most people, there's two big beliefs. They think that

01:06:49.980 Jesus is coming back relatively soon. And a lot of people believe this generation, right? We're 1.00

01:06:57.040 in the end times. He's coming back next Thursday. So relatively soon. And the second component is

01:07:01.740 they believe that God has destined in scripture that things must become progressively worse until

01:07:07.140 he arrives. So things are going to get worse. And we don't have much time left. He's coming

01:07:14.220 back soon. And I understand that. And if that's your view, we're glad to have you along for the

01:07:18.840 ride. And we don't want to throw shade on that view. We want to be respectful. But there are

01:07:23.600 other eschatological views. And so for the three of us, for instance, and I know this will sound

01:07:29.420 foreign to some of you, but we would prescribe to what's known as post-millennialism. And so

01:07:34.060 as our eschatological end time view, which doesn't, nobody knows that the day or the hour,

01:07:38.940 no man. But in general, we would assert that Christ, his return is likely still off in our

01:07:47.800 distant future. And to the point where we would argue that it's possible, again, not a definitive

01:07:54.860 claim, but it's possible that our future generations would be watching the recording

01:08:00.440 of this show and say, oh, these are some of the early church fathers. That people would read

01:08:05.360 Lewis and Athanasius and Calvin and say, which one came first again? Even though they're, you know,

01:08:12.740 at least in the case of Augustine and Calvin, you know, are separated by a thousand years, you know,

01:08:18.220 you know, 1100. But they would say, oh, it's 1100 years. That's a moot point. So we're talking,

01:08:24.680 it could be 10,000 years. We're not saying it is. No man knows the day or the hour, but Jesus could

01:08:29.780 every single generation for the past 2,000 years of church history thought that Jesus was going to

01:08:33.800 return in their lifetime, and they've all been wrong. Second component of post-millennialism is,

01:08:38.320 one, the return of Christ could be very distant. Two, that things will not get worse and worse,

01:08:42.780 but actually they'll get progressively better, and that they're supposed to because it's a proof

01:08:47.160 of Christ's triumph, that by the death and resurrection and ascension of Christ, that the

01:08:53.100 last thing he said to his disciples before his ascension is all authority on earth, not just

01:08:57.960 17th dimension authority, but all authority on earth and in heaven has been given to me.

01:09:02.840 And that he commissioned his disciples to disciple the nations, to preach, to baptize,

01:09:09.200 but also to teach them to obey all of his commands. And we believe that God's commandments

01:09:14.920 have application in every realm of human society and life. And that as we learn to be obedient

01:09:22.220 disciples, as the world is evangelized, and as we are obedient to Christ's commands in every realm

01:09:27.880 of life, including medicine, including education, including media, including this, including that,

01:09:32.620 and the other, that the world will progressively get better. Now, here's the deal. Think of stocks.

01:09:39.240 The post-millennial is not saying that things won't ever get better. Stocks, we're saying,

01:09:42.580 okay, if it's a good stock, the general trend in the long run will be upward, although there are

01:09:47.500 spikes and dips, and some of those dips can be significant along the way. So all three of us,

01:09:53.240 just for the record, we're not ostriches with our heads in the stand. If you're saying, well,

01:09:58.740 things seem pretty bad right now, we're going to say, uh-huh, yeah, we agree. We're in a hell of a

01:10:03.440 dip. We're in quite the dip right now. The lizard people are ruling the world. We're on board with

01:10:08.820 a lot of that kind of stuff. Yeah, so we're in a big dip, but we're saying that the dip is not all

01:10:13.420 there is until Christ's return. We're saying by His grace, and it's not apart from Christ, but

01:10:17.660 through Christ, the church empowered by Christ can get out of the dip, and that this is a dip,

01:10:22.880 and it may be a 500-year dip.

01:10:24.440 I would say that we're right now in a 300-year dip.

01:10:27.320 The Dark Ages, great.

01:10:29.000 Wonderful. 0.99

01:10:29.420 The Enlightenment, trash. 0.99

01:10:31.400 The Enlightenment is the dip, right? 1.00

01:10:33.520 And they've been lying to you

01:10:34.360 because the victors get to write the history books.

01:10:36.120 So we've been in a dip for a long time,

01:10:38.220 denying God, rebelling against Christ.

01:10:40.340 But we believe that not just will Christ return

01:10:43.000 and get us out of the dip,

01:10:44.080 but Christ through his church as he's ruling in heaven

01:10:47.020 with authority in heaven and on earth

01:10:48.420 will get us out of the dip.

01:10:49.760 And a long time from now, it could be hundreds of years.

01:10:54.180 It could be thousands of years that things can change,

01:10:56.900 that the whole earth could be beautified.

01:10:58.240 And so back to Isaiah 65.

01:10:59.780 The point is Isaiah 65, we don't believe is giving a description

01:11:03.640 of the new heavens and new earth after Christ returns

01:11:06.960 because here's the sticking point, people still die.

01:11:10.420 People are dying.

01:11:11.000 Right, in heaven, people don't die because the last,

01:11:14.080 and here's the other dispensational problem.

01:11:16.160 Death is not the first of Jesus' enemies to conquer.

01:11:18.240 He doesn't return and then conquer death and then set the world right.

01:11:21.100 No, the Bible says in 1 Corinthians 15 very clearly that death is the final enemy for

01:11:25.720 Christ to defeat.

01:11:26.400 So we believe that many enemies, that the enemy of Marxism, the enemy of communism,

01:11:31.980 the enemy of the Clintons, the enemy of, you know, like all these different things will

01:11:36.300 be defeated progressively at different stages as the church continues to grow in strength

01:11:40.740 and influence and power.

01:11:42.240 And then lastly, upon Christ's physical final return, he'll defeat death.

01:11:47.780 So the nations, Isaiah 65 gives us a description

01:11:50.860 where Christ has not yet returned

01:11:52.100 because death is still happening.

01:11:53.900 It's not yet been defeated,

01:11:55.140 but the nation's no longer no war

01:11:56.940 and lifespans have been linked.

01:11:59.560 No one any longer dies in infancy.

01:12:02.040 That means abortion has been completely eradicated

01:12:04.440 and also certain infant diseases have been eradicated

01:12:08.460 and the youth dies at a hundred.

01:12:10.440 Where if somebody dies at a hundred years old,

01:12:12.460 you would look at him and say,

01:12:13.900 I'm so sorry to his family for your loss.

01:12:16.140 I can't believe he was just a kid.

01:12:19.060 And all this before Christ's final return

01:12:21.520 in our distant future, currently in a dip,

01:12:24.040 but the overall trajectory being moving forward.

01:12:26.380 So primary water.

01:12:29.940 And so it is worth, I think,

01:12:32.060 exploring whether that's possible,

01:12:34.640 theologically speaking,

01:12:36.140 if we can actually have people die at a hundred

01:12:38.760 and it be considered very young.

01:12:40.340 And the answer is yes.

01:12:41.600 But a lot of objection that I hear is people say,

01:12:44.600 will in Genesis, God says their years will be limited to 120. And then after the flood, you see

01:12:50.620 a steady degradation of lifespan that eventually, you know, goes down to 120. By the way, after like

01:12:57.280 20 generations after the flood is only that. So is Christ really that bad? Or is God really that

01:13:03.420 bad at fulfilling his word? No. What he's doing is he's prophesying the time of the flood.

01:13:08.000 Right. It was 120 years.

01:13:09.540 Until the flood.

01:13:10.320 Until the flood.

01:13:10.880 And then the flood comes, and it's really fascinating how after the flood, once the waters recede back into the earth, you have lifespans steadily decline.

01:13:21.720 Yep.

01:13:22.400 Coincidence?

01:13:22.800 With no exception.

01:13:23.780 I think not.

01:13:24.760 So the water goes under the earth, this fresh new water, the great springs, and then people start living shorter and shorter life.

01:13:31.040 And it's interesting how it also, let's just assume that this is right.

01:13:35.020 Let's suspend any disbelief and say that primary water is legit.

01:13:37.840 100%.

01:13:38.280 And that primary water was one of the major mechanisms that God used to flood the world

01:13:42.100 in Genesis. The symbolism itself is striking. How you have a mankind that hates its God and

01:13:50.380 therefore hates itself because the fool says in his heart, there is no God and the fool is the 1.00

01:13:55.300 one that loves death. And so using the tool that was given to man to enliven them, God uses that 1.00

01:14:03.820 same tool to kill and end that wicked line in the same way that Christ took death and used death to

01:14:11.860 kill death. In the same way that baptism then is a sign both of judgment and of salvation. Right.

01:14:17.820 In that we're saved through the waters of death that swallow Pharaoh's armies, that swallow the

01:14:23.780 world. We're saved from the floods. Our Lord is seated high over the floods, Psalm 93. He rides

01:14:29.980 on the waves, but we're saved through them. We're in the ark of Christ. The world is deluged and

01:14:37.580 drowned. The water represents death and judgment, but it also represents, it's not just that we're

01:14:41.300 saved through them, but then the positive application is that same water that is judgment

01:14:44.840 and death for some is the same water that is cleansing and life for others. The temple in

01:14:51.540 Ezekiel is figured as having water flowing out over its threshold into a great river that grows

01:14:58.020 deeper as it goes out, goes forth. Ezekiel 47. And creates essentially an oasis in life. So these

01:15:05.160 pictures, biblical symbols are not simple or one-dimensional. And often what you'll find is

01:15:12.260 that the same taste that to the saint is life is death to the unbeliever. Again, Lewis picked this 0.98

01:15:18.700 up in his apple that came from the tree in the garden in The Magician's Nephew, that Jadis, 0.93

01:15:24.800 the the wicked queen from charn took the fruit without permission and tasted it and it would 0.90

01:15:32.320 forever the smell of it would keep her from narnia for a hundred years that's how aslan protected 0.93

01:15:36.740 narnia but for um for those who take it with permission rightly it's life and it smells

01:15:44.200 greater than any other fruit that got so god's symbols in the world often look like this diggory

01:15:49.100 his mom is brought back she's brought back from it yeah and and and at the end of the day what

01:15:53.900 we're saying with this primary water idea to actually define what it is. Again, the idea that

01:15:59.800 water is being created deep in the earth from magmatic processes and just that God made,

01:16:06.080 it would create water. It comes up through tectonic fissures. The evidence for this

01:16:09.360 manifold, we see tectonic fissures are often filled with fresh water. We find springs where

01:16:15.900 they absolutely shouldn't be according to the local rainfall that continue for centuries even,

01:16:20.960 sometimes millennia at a constant rate of fresh water coming out of the ground regardless of

01:16:26.720 what's happening in the atmosphere or the rains we see springs coming out of mountaintops when

01:16:31.980 you would think that a spring would if the basin above it was significant enough to capture that

01:16:37.880 water and then it could go under the ground into aquifer and come out later like an artesian well

01:16:43.200 type of situation or mountain springs that are way above the water table of the local area yeah

01:16:46.880 And we're seeing them 4,000 meters above ground level

01:16:50.300 where there's no, the water table's thousands of meters below

01:16:53.140 and we've got freshwater springs

01:16:55.460 constantly flowing out of mountaintops.

01:16:58.220 There's evidence after evidence after evidence like this

01:17:01.060 and bringing it all together,

01:17:03.660 what I would, if I had to do a little forecasting,

01:17:06.740 say what might be?

01:17:08.440 Well, let's say that the leaven leavens the lump

01:17:11.060 and over the next, let's just say that

01:17:14.100 you know, God said that he delights in the Old Testament to show his love and faithfulness to

01:17:19.620 the thousandth generation of those who love him. 40-year generation, 40,000 years. That was about,

01:17:24.620 I don't know, 4,000 years ago when that promise was spoken. So let's say 36,000 over the next

01:17:29.600 36,000 years, God's faithfulness continues to be shown to his people. And the nations are converted

01:17:36.280 and all of the ends of the earth, every family, as the Psalms say, you know, confesses the lordship

01:17:41.040 of Christ. They come to the mountain, Isaiah 2, to be instructed in God's law. And we're starting

01:17:46.540 to see some of these things. The means that God appoints are not always just purely deus ex machina,

01:17:54.520 ghost in the machine, inner plot interventions, where all of a sudden God's like, and everyone's

01:18:00.200 lifespan is now 100 years by magic. He loves to use means and to raise his children to maturity

01:18:06.860 to end up being the vehicle to those means?

01:18:09.780 This is, again, the hobbit's journey

01:18:11.360 from their immaturity to their full maturity

01:18:13.700 in the Lord of the Rings,

01:18:15.380 where they grow. 0.52

01:18:16.600 It's the age of men,

01:18:17.540 men coming into their fullness,

01:18:19.560 going into the next age with the return of the king

01:18:22.140 and the age of the elves ending.

01:18:24.840 What if God was maturing his people?

01:18:27.100 And as we'd search out the mysteries,

01:18:29.340 we discover the means by which

01:18:31.900 through his physical means,

01:18:34.380 lifespans can be increased,

01:18:35.920 not in an alchemical, we're going to talk about pharmakeia and functional witchcraft,

01:18:41.080 but by actually going with the grain of creation as God made it,

01:18:45.320 instead of fighting against the grain of creation.

01:18:47.940 And who's to say, who's to say, given all of the imagery and metaphor and myth and legend,

01:18:53.500 and even scripture as well, of the life-giving properties of water,

01:18:57.440 combined with this anti-humanist, anti-materialist theory,

01:19:03.400 who's to say it doesn't have something to do with it?

01:19:05.180 Right.

01:19:05.740 Is that what we're saying?

01:19:06.660 That's what we're saying.

01:19:07.240 Is that what we're saying?

01:19:07.840 That was beautiful.

01:19:08.480 Beautifully said.

01:19:09.360 So this episode, recap, just to remind you guys,

01:19:11.780 hollow earth theory.

01:19:13.420 Confirmed.

01:19:14.560 Yep.

01:19:15.500 But hollow earth theory,

01:19:16.920 maybe not exactly the way that Bird

01:19:18.760 and some of the later components said it,

01:19:20.160 you know, journey to the center of the earth,

01:19:21.760 but different spheres, porous,

01:19:25.340 with support shock kind of system,

01:19:27.160 with massive caverns, not five miles down,

01:19:30.920 but beneath the crust, 150, 200, 300, 400 miles down.

01:19:35.580 massive caverns with support, with water, with vegetation, and with heat sources in different

01:19:43.040 ways. And we didn't have time to conceptualize how that would happen without a sun, but

01:19:46.060 heat sources and sources of light sustaining even wildlife and even massive creatures like dragons,

01:19:52.900 like sea serpents. And then beyond that, that gets us down there with the water,

01:19:58.660 Water not being finite, but being made

01:20:01.000 and new, healthier for you.

01:20:04.600 And this three, you know, very practical,

01:20:07.460 and there's more that could be said,

01:20:08.400 but three practical applications.

01:20:09.920 One would be restoring places here,

01:20:12.640 like Atlantis, which we didn't have time to get into it.

01:20:14.960 Oh, we didn't get into Atlantis.

01:20:15.760 Located in the Sahara Desert, full send.

01:20:18.020 See episode one of season one of Hanukosmos.

01:20:20.140 We'll talk about the Rakat structure, Atlantis.

01:20:22.940 The eye of the Sahara. 0.97

01:20:23.580 Available, it's called High Strangeness on the High Seas.

01:20:25.840 Yes, there you go.

01:20:26.340 Tube everywhere.

01:20:26.820 But Atlantis, a very solid argument to be made

01:20:29.920 that it's actually located in the Sahara Desert

01:20:32.500 and that that could actually be restored.

01:20:34.720 So Atlantis reaching back to its zenith,

01:20:38.160 but with good and not evil.

01:20:39.860 That we could drill down and access primary water

01:20:43.780 deep in the earth and bring it up

01:20:46.400 and do another motif of scripture

01:20:48.820 is that the deserts would become gardens.

01:20:51.180 Right.

01:20:51.660 That we would greenify the world 0.93

01:20:53.400 and be able to see the Sahara garden

01:20:55.920 and be able to see Utah become something

01:20:58.580 other than a salt lick.

01:21:00.620 Right, and clay.

01:21:01.800 So beautifying the earth is one application

01:21:03.580 and then the potential of there being primary water

01:21:05.740 on other planets, Mars being one example

01:21:07.440 and beautifying other places.

01:21:09.200 And then lastly, primary water

01:21:10.840 and how it would affect just humanity.

01:21:12.580 There's just a few applications, there's far more,

01:21:15.860 but how it could affect humanity and our health

01:21:18.300 and elongating lifespans.

01:21:20.220 That was our episode.

01:21:21.420 Hope you liked it and tune in next time.

01:21:25.920 We'll be right back.

The NXR Podcast - December 16, 2024

THE INTERVIEW - Hollow Earth & Primary Water ｜ ICYMI w @hauntedcosmos_

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