Pastor Eric Kahn joins Pastor Joel Webin to talk about the church in general, and specifically, when to send missionaries abroad, and when to bring them home. We also spend a lot of time in the second half of the episode talking about wealth and the poverty gospel, David Platt, and John Piper.
00:03:19.500I think just giving people hope and encouragement.
00:03:22.000If you look at the political landscape, especially,
00:03:24.820but the way that people look at the church right now,
00:03:27.100I think a lot of people are discouraged.
00:03:29.500And so we're sort of hoping to infuse a little bit of that post-mill hope
00:03:33.740and hope for the future for people so that whether they're going to move
00:03:38.500to Georgetown, Texas, or Ogden, Utah, or be a part of a community,
00:03:42.220or whether they're going to start one where they are,
00:03:44.100just that people would be fired up about that,
00:03:45.960seeing that this is a great time of opportunity for the church and men who are courageous and
00:03:51.320who are going to be faithful in their context. So yeah, hopefully get to do a lot of networking
00:03:56.340with our friends. We're looking at, I think it's going to be about a thousand people still have
00:04:01.340tickets being sold. So lots of kids. We went this week to check out the venue. We're excited about
00:04:07.320that. A lot of vendors, of course, we'll have Zach Gares' new book on hand with us as well.
00:04:12.040um and that is recovering the anti-feminist vision of the reformers calvin vermigli and others
00:04:19.740awesome so we're excited about that joel we get to talk about patriarchy and post-mill
00:04:23.920right theology it kind of sounds like a joel conference yeah and uh you know we're not above
00:04:29.120that yep yeah you can't be above that yeah that's i think you know conferences in large part uh or
00:04:35.000at least the conferences that we host um in our neck of the woods that is you know one of the
00:04:40.780major goals is that it would just be a white pill weekend you know like there's so much to be
00:04:46.660discouraged by and uh it's easy to lose your spirits and so uh just to remind yourself it's
00:04:54.020just like a it's a dose of optimism but it's also just a dose of sanity just to remind yourself that
00:04:59.600you're not crazy and that uh you're not crazy by by just remembering that you're not alone that
00:05:05.780there's, uh, that in any period of time, um, in the sovereignty and mercy of God, he reserves for
00:05:11.320himself, um, faithful remnant of, of people. And so, yeah, you're not crazy. You're not alone,
00:05:17.980but, um, but if we're going to make it, and we are going to make it, but if we're going to make it,
00:05:24.500um, there does need to be, I think, some consolidation. You and I have talked about
00:05:29.160this before. Maybe we could get into it a little bit here. Um, but this idea that, you know, I think
00:05:34.420a lot of what the church did for decades in the church growth movement and the church planting
00:05:39.400movement, thinking of like gospel coalition, Acts 29, you know, all these kinds of sojourners,
00:05:44.540we spread our forces too thin and we divided to conquer. But what actually happened is we
00:05:51.920divided and we were conquered. And we divided so much that some of what we were chopping off
00:05:59.640to start a new church wasn't actually even viable. So it was just like kamikaze, you know,
00:06:05.440suicidal missions where we would send out, you know, because, you know, you take a church and
00:06:09.980it's like our church, we pledge, you know, at this church planting conference, we pledge to
00:06:14.180plant 10 churches in the next 10 years. It's like your church is 80 people, you know, and, and then,
00:06:19.820you know, you're, you're trying to break off leaders. And what happens is that everybody gets
00:06:24.100uh, elevated to the position of perfect incompetence, right? So the guy who would
00:06:29.600have been a good deacon, he's an elder, but he can't actually do it. The guy who
00:06:33.160would have been a good elder, he's now, you know, lead pastor, preaching pastor,
00:06:37.120the guy, you know, so at every level you, um, you're basically, you're promoting
00:06:41.200people, uh, perfectly to the realm of incompetence and sending them off to die.
00:06:46.460And so as a compensation to that, and certainly we could overcompensate, you
00:06:51.020know so we want to be aware of that and what what is the holy spirit doing and what time is it you
00:06:55.380know the sons of issachar they know the times um but right now we believe in this moment not forever
00:07:00.140so this is not a indefinite christian plan but i think you know there are phases of of this
00:07:06.820glorious christian plan and and one of the phases that we're in right now i would say is uh same
00:07:12.940phase that the stock market is currently in it's consolidation um consolidate it's time to uh to
00:07:18.980rally the cry to some of our troops, men that we've had behind enemy lines, deep, deep in the
00:07:27.260trenches and say, come home, come home. And it doesn't mean that, you know, it doesn't mean that
00:07:33.260everything that was done was a failure. God has used many things. There are plenty of failures,
00:07:39.600but there are also in his mercy and kindness, plenty of victories that we can celebrate and
00:07:43.960be thankful for but i do think it's time to uh uh come home it's time to uh to say to you know and
00:07:50.200there's a lot of guys i'm not just talking about church planters or missionaries or whatever
00:07:53.500i'm talking about you know blue collar salt of the earth your average christian uh who is you know
00:07:59.640uh the only the only sense of fellowship christian fellowship that that guy even has is his gc
00:08:05.760and uh and his fellow you know anons on twitter you know it's like that dude like and i i get it
00:08:12.680not everybody can, right? Some of you guys, you've got elderly parents and they're not able to move
00:08:19.060and you have an obligation within the fifth commandment to honor thy father and mother and0.99
00:08:22.500you can't abandon them and send them to the glue factory. I get it. I'm not, this is not a one size
00:08:27.200fits all. There are disclaimers. There are exceptions. But in general, what I'm saying is
00:08:32.820that for the average person who doesn't have some of these exception clauses, like elderly parents
00:08:40.060or whatever it might be, for the average person, I think it's a consolidation phase of Christendom.
00:08:45.980We spread too thin beyond our qualifications. We sent under-resourced and under-equipped men
00:08:55.060into the trenches alone. We've gotten slaughtered. Some victories, but a lot of casualties.
00:09:02.700let's pull back get in those christian boroughs and let's get if we can big boroughs not just
00:09:11.220a thousand boroughs right not just a thousand boroughs of 13 dudes um if we can we need more
00:09:18.940than just moscow so i'm not saying one borough and i'm not saying a thousand boroughs i would
00:09:23.440love to see in the province of god what if we had you know about about five dozen but like what if
00:09:30.660we had 60 Ogdens spread across the country. That's only going to happen if people will play
00:09:38.620nice with one another. You're going to have to have teams. And with teams, here's the thing
00:09:43.940about teams. One reason that we don't like teams is because if you're on a team, not everybody
00:09:50.320gets to be in charge. So I could be a lead pastor of a church of 40 people. But you could also be
00:09:57.460an associate pastor or just a faithful deacon in a church of a thousand people. Like Ogden,
00:10:04.240you guys right now, I mean, what the Lord is doing through you, you know, not trying to just
00:10:07.980blow smoke, but genuine, it's not flattery. I mean it. What the Lord is doing through you right
00:10:13.140now, you guys are, I think, on a trajectory to have a church in Ogden, Utah of about a thousand
00:10:19.720people. And it matters. This is why it matters. It matters because you could have 10 churches of
00:10:25.780100 and that's great i'm not trying to disparage that but in this cultural moment i believe one
00:10:30.700church of a thousand is better superior for a few reasons one of the reasons is uh with with
00:10:37.360consolidation not just a thousand people spread out but a thousand people together uh there can
00:10:42.600be a gay pride parade happening in ogden and you and dan and brian can send out an email to your
00:10:50.620church and say uh hey guys we need to see you in five hours all of you and then you show up with
00:10:56.840a thousand people strong and you're holding hands surrounding the gay parade singing he lives to0.99
00:11:03.440tread the fields of hell glory hallelujah you're done yeah you're done lgbt progressives you're0.99
00:11:12.720done i'm sorry uh this is christ town get the hell out of here you're done yeah and and you can't do0.91
00:11:20.000that with churches of 50 or 60 people. Churches of 50 or 60 people are legitimate, valid, biblical
00:11:27.200churches, so long as they're faithful. Praise God for them. I'm not trying to disparage that,
00:11:32.040and I'm not saying that we shouldn't have any small churches. But what I am saying is that in
00:11:36.680this cultural moment, I think we do need some more, we need institutions. Every institution
00:11:43.020has discredited itself, including the church, shot themselves in the foot. And you know what?
00:11:47.220that sounds cool in your you know naive libertarian mind but um the world doesn't work that way it
00:11:54.340doesn't work that way i i don't have the time to look at web md and decide how to diagnose myself
00:12:01.320every time i get sick i need doctors and i need pastors and we need um in media in in medicine
00:12:10.560and academia and all these different, we do need, society needs institutions. And one of them
00:12:17.580is we need the institutional church and we need large, successful, competent, high caliber
00:12:25.800men led churches. We need some of those and it can't just be Doug Wilson in Moscow. God bless
00:12:33.100them. God bless them forever. But gosh, we need a few more of those. So anyways, I say all that
00:12:38.780to say i'm excited for your conference because i think one of the the fruits lord willing that
00:12:43.800will come out of it is not just a white pill encouragement optimism dose sanity dose that
00:12:50.120that that's to be sure but not just that for three days um but some people they they will come out of
00:12:57.340this and they'll go back home with their wives and their kids and even some other families that
00:13:02.140they're close to and they'll say uh three days wasn't enough we got a taste now we can't get
00:13:08.080it out of our minds. We've tasted and seen, you know, that Ogden is good. And we're going to
00:13:14.860move there. And we're going to reinforce the troops there so that instead of losing on every
00:13:21.520battlefield, we're going to win on some battlefields. I think that's where we're at.
00:13:26.520What do you think? Yeah, absolutely. I think the word that you use is consolidation. I think
00:13:30.940that's absolutely right. Even King's Hall, season three, we've been going through that
00:13:35.480history of Christendom. And particularly in Eastern Europe, guys like Skanderbeg and Hunyadi,
00:13:42.380so the Polish, the Hungarians, one of the real problems that they face is that Christians were
00:13:48.280infighting with each other. And so at one point, Skanderbeg and Hunyadi are trying to join forces,
00:13:53.720and you've got a Christian king in the middle of them that sides with the Turks
00:13:58.700and won't allow them to come together to defend themselves.0.78
00:14:03.460And so it spells ruin for those countries and for Christendom for periods of time
00:14:08.080until they kind of get their stuff together and learn how to work together.
00:14:11.480You know, some periods of working together, like the Crusades,
00:14:15.200depending on which one you're talking about, like Third Crusade, First Crusade, that sort of thing.
00:14:20.100But it is interesting because, you know, it's something that Christians in America particularly0.87
00:14:25.060are like allergic to power and they need to not be because really militarily as a nation anybody0.96
00:14:33.800trying to get anything done in the world you have to have a consolidation of power which is going to
00:14:38.620require competent men it's going to require economic resources political resources um in this
00:14:44.900this idea for the boroughs and the conference right we get this from you know alfred uh realizing
00:14:50.400that to create protection against the Danes and protection for his people to have a thriving
00:14:56.280culture in what would become England, he had to fundamentally build robust fortress cities,
00:15:02.440which are called boroughs. So it's got a wall, they've got military practice, they can defend
00:15:07.440trade from raiding and looting and all that sort of thing. And because you have these strong towns
00:15:13.420and you kind of link them together, eventually what you have is a strong, what would become a
00:15:18.000strong nation. So I think really, it's just trying to encourage and teach Christians like you have
00:15:24.000to pull resources. If you want to start a school like we've done here, it takes a lot of people,1.00
00:15:29.160it takes a lot of resources. Then if you think about like, well, I don't want the guys in my
00:15:35.500church to have to work for the soulless ghouls of Global Homo. Well, that means I'm going to have0.99
00:15:41.020to create small businesses and medium sized businesses for those guys to work in. We need
00:15:45.660economy. And so you're going to have to attract people with capital to invest, people to run
00:15:51.500businesses. You still need the executive C-suite type mindset from people. You're going to have
00:15:56.340to invest in meme coins. Yeah, exactly. Meme coins. Come on. You got to be able to build that.
00:16:02.980If you're not invested in Brett on base right now, then you're not going to make it. I don't
00:16:09.600know what you're doing. We now know what Joel's pet meme coin is. Brett is one of them. Brett
00:16:15.640is already a lot is priced in it's still got you know i think it's got three to five x potential
00:16:20.960but there's some others right there's some others you don't want to sleep on got 10x bitcoin let's
00:16:26.800not forget about bitcoin is i think a long-term hedge against inflation oh yeah and it's going
00:16:32.460to go up but there's some other coins my goodness man bitcoin i think dan would disagree with me i
00:16:37.720think dan even said like 300 for this bull cycle so sometime by the end of 2025 300k
00:16:43.980on bitcoin yeah i'm predicting like more like 169 to we're still good i mean it's what's sitting
00:16:52.560around oh yeah it's fantastic i think it'll two to 2.5x i think dan is like more like 5x on bitcoin
00:16:58.280i think two and a half times uh at the peak of this bull cycle which means within 12 to 18 months
00:17:04.220and then i think there's some other coins though chain link chain link is kind of a normie alt
00:17:10.720coin but i think when retail comes to the picture boom there's your capital and then you can move
00:17:14.800to augen all right i'll stop that's right i'll stop right response ministries 2025 conference
00:17:23.160is a go this is three days full jam-packed conference with eight main sessions three to
00:17:30.080four hour and a half long panels and an all-star super based lineup of speakers 15 speakers in all
00:17:37.420Who are they? Steve Dace, Jeff Durbin, Orne McIntyre, Stephen Wolfe, Brian Sauve, Andrew Isker, John Harris, Eric Kahn, A.D. Robles, Dan Burkholder, the Christian Prince himself, Dusty Devers, Ben Garrett, Zachary Garris, David Reese, and yours truly, Pastor Joel Webin.
00:17:57.100Again, this is April 3rd, 4th, and 5th, 2025, and the early registration is open right now.
00:18:05.160This is the longest conference with the most speakers we've ever offered, and yet it is
00:18:20.900Again, that is rightresponseconference.com to register right now because the early registration
00:18:27.760will not last long. Yeah, so I think just kind of reteaching Christians about some of the spheres
00:18:35.640that have been neglected, I think this is sort of the rod of pietism that's been in the church,
00:18:40.860right, is that we don't really have a robust political theology. We don't have like an
00:18:45.780economic theology worked out, if you want to call it that. But just thinking about the reformers had
00:18:51.620to do the same thing, thinking through vocation in a holistic sense. Most of the people in your
00:18:57.260church are not going to be pastors. How do they contribute to the vision for rebuilding Christendom
00:19:02.520in a place like Ogden or Georgetown or Moscow? So I think having the infrastructure, and certainly
00:19:09.480I think right now, obviously, we have New Christendom Press. You've got Right Response
00:19:14.140ministries, media is an institution. It's a very important institution, particularly in our day and
00:19:19.060age, when quite frankly, the front the war is being fought on is propaganda, right? And so if
00:19:25.920you can counter that, if you can have ecosystems of media, institutional learning, stuff like that,
00:19:31.520that's not tied to legacy media, which is dying and rotting and Jeff Bezos controlled and whatever
00:19:37.600else, then you're going to have, I think, a way to build your communities. And I really go back
00:19:44.080to say like 1 Samuel 22, what's happening in our moment? Well, you have David, he goes to the cave
00:19:50.540of Adullam. We're told that his brothers and his fathers hear about it and they go to him.
00:19:56.160So there you have like, yeah, it's natural that family is going to move to a fortress or stronghold
00:20:00.680type location. But it's interesting in verse two of 1 Samuel 22, it says, everyone who was in
00:20:06.820distress and everyone who was in debt and everyone who was bitter in soul gathered to him. And he,
00:20:12.360that is david became commander over them and there were with him about 400 men i think it's
00:20:17.860interesting number one because you don't necessarily need new york city size population i don't need
00:20:23.540three to five million people to accomplish political cultural or ecclesiastical ends
00:20:29.720that's right you know in this case we kind of have the lesson through david that god loves to
00:20:33.700work through small bands of faithful men but they're potent right these will become the mighty
00:20:38.160men. And I also think like, look, there's so many people in our culture who are disaffected.
00:20:44.960They would fit in that list of people, right? To be in debt in a society like ours doesn't
00:20:50.520necessarily mean that you're a really terrible person. When you think about inflation and the
00:20:55.480way our society has fraudulently been built on consumer debt, right? So you look at people and
00:21:02.200they're in distress and they don't have economic solutions. Even think about in the last 30 years,
00:21:07.140how disaffected people will get. Say in the 1980s, you could buy a home for less than the
00:21:13.680average annual salary in America, median income. Today, it's not the case. Your average household
00:21:21.500price has got to be at least 10x of somebody's average annual salary, if not more. So I think
00:21:27.300people are feeling that. And then what we're trying to do is say, look, you need to go to
00:21:31.980one of these places where people can have your back because if you're going to build really
00:21:37.080counter institutions counter cultures you have to have some inertia and some you know capital
00:21:43.960across all those economic political ecclesiastical spheres amen yeah that's well said the cave of
00:21:51.540with david is such a palpable um example of i think our our current moment that we're in right
00:22:00.780now it's just um guys who are disgruntled indebted disenfranchised um because we live
00:22:09.900in a world right now that really does hate men particularly white men um and even more so you
00:22:16.500know white christian men um which by the way i you know i i've done this with i had jeremy carl
00:22:22.420you know he wrote you know the war on on whites you know and uh anti-white discrimination um
00:22:28.560um i i think that you know for the record i think they're two separate battles i think like a venn
00:22:32.780diagram i think there's a lot of overlap so i'm not negating that um the war on christianity and
00:22:38.600the war on uh western society i think there's a lot of overlap uh but i do see them as two distinct
00:22:45.520battles and not just one um so i you know so i i think there's uh there really is a palpable hatred
00:22:51.900towards christianity um and there is also a palpable hatred towards um whiteness uh to the
00:22:58.720point that uh that you know you could be a white person who is progressive and liberal and hates
00:23:04.900christ uh and yet still experience some some measure of vitriol and i don't think it's because0.84
00:23:11.340you're christian adjacent i think it's because you're white um so anyways all that being said
00:23:16.020We live in a moment where there is a lot of animosity towards men, towards Christian faith, towards European Anglo descent, the Western heritage, all these kinds of things.
00:23:32.760And so you have the similar situation to where, you know, all that's, these are the kinds of guys that gather to David.
00:23:40.640They're, they're guys who society has completely, completely disenfranchised and, and they don't really have any place.
00:23:50.960And so, so they go to a cave and, and you, you know, you would think like, it's almost like surrender because that's really the only category.
00:23:59.460i mean that's why i wrote this you know little book glorified blog you know but fight by flight
00:24:03.380because i i really wrestled with that i was thinking like well i don't want to um i'm not
00:24:10.680suicidal by the grace of god i don't want to just like just implode and destroy myself and blow up
00:24:16.680my life and yet at the same time though i i i'm not i don't i'm not a quitter i don't and that's
00:24:23.840what i felt like i only had two options it was die uh or or quit and neither of those sounds like
00:24:31.400good options and so to have like this to be able to carve out new theological categories of like
00:24:38.280advancing to the rear you know temporary tactical retreat you know in order to consolidate and
00:24:45.040reinforce and then go and fight another day on a more strategic battlefield you know the decisive
00:24:49.960point uh the strategic point winnable but also significant like these got this kind of language
00:24:55.420was really really helpful for me and influenced you know the decision that i made for my family
00:25:00.180and seven other families that followed me out of the state of california to georgetown texas to
00:25:04.620plant a church and and it influenced my writing of this book and it's you know kind of what i'm
00:25:09.400going to be talking about um at the new christendom conference uh but i think a lot of guys need to be
00:25:14.120thinking like that it's it's not that all these men uh gathered unto david in a cave to die they
00:25:21.580didn't go they weren't quitting um they weren't they weren't it wasn't surrender it was consolidation
00:25:28.280they were going to a safe place a fortress where they could uh where they could um avoid a fight
00:25:36.780no so that they could regroup and restrengthen to win a fight it wasn't to avoid a fight it was to
00:25:43.840win a fight. It's really interesting, Joel, too, because you and I have talked a lot online and
00:25:49.040offline about this concept. But as the world tends toward the globalization and homogeneity
00:25:56.820of everything, one of the things that has happened is people are rightly turning back to what's
00:26:03.260local, physical, real, what you can look in the face. And so there is actually a real strength
00:26:09.240to having brothers whom you see on a daily basis whom you do business with right and i think this
00:26:15.580is where it's helpful to also contrast sort of the rod dreher benedict option which was really
00:26:22.520like build a monastery hide away until the storm's over and then hopefully rebuild culture which only
00:26:28.840works that you know benedict uh benedict option only works uh when you have fighting men protecting
00:26:35.460you. That's right. And contrasting it, I think Andrew Isker has been really helpful with the
00:26:42.700Boniface option. And what we're trying to do is, no, we're regathering the troops. We're giving
00:26:48.040them hope and purpose. And then our goal is actually to go on the offensive. We're actually
00:26:53.400going to chop down the idols of the day. We're actually going to attack the things that are
00:26:57.500disgusting and should be hated in our world. We're not just sitting here saying, well, we'll just
00:27:02.740wait it out. Because I think the reality, Andrew has pointed this out right in his book, is
00:27:06.800you're not going to make it if you do that. The world around you is hostile. And whether you like
00:27:13.240it or not, you'd read C.S. Lewis and Prince Caspian. Caspian is like, they gather the troops
00:27:20.080and he's like, what are we doing here? And the centaur is like, well, we're going to war. The0.82
00:27:25.860time is right. That's what we do. And so I think for us as Christians, one of the skins we have
00:27:31.740to shed is this ideology of like pietistic pacifism right where we don't fight we just
00:27:39.240you know basically we adopt all the core principles of the regime and we say that somehow we're still
00:27:45.080christian no we actually have to be a counterforce against that so it really gets into this like
00:27:50.000counterinsurgency mindset of we know the world's going to be hostile we know we're going to have
00:27:55.440you know mostly i think in a lot of ways yeah they're going to be political ideological propaganda
00:28:01.160to type combat that we have to get into, but that's important. And so we have to muster people
00:28:07.380to do that assault, not just, you know, roll up the gates and hope that, you know, we somehow make
00:28:13.360it. Right. Well said. Should we talk about missionaries for a second? Yeah, I think it's
00:28:20.800actually a good tie-in because of where the focal point is. It does tie-in because that's what we're
00:28:24.740saying. We're saying fall back, right? Not fall on your sword. We're not advocating for that. We're
00:28:30.820not saying we lose down here uh commit suicide no we're saying fall back um because we want to
00:28:39.020win the war we want to win the war that we're in it for the long haul um the church lives in the
00:28:45.080light of eternity therefore it can afford to be patient like that's you know so we're not um
00:28:49.920advocating for avoiding a fight we're advocating for being wise so that we might win a fight and
00:28:55.800so just that's the principle that we're talking about it applies to individual households and
00:29:00.140perhaps moving out of a blue state or whatever, or, or getting, you know, to a church like yours
00:29:05.200or mine. Um, so it applies to the family. Um, it also applies, uh, to pastors and church plants
00:29:11.660and stuff like that. Um, if God's blessing it, go for it, brother. Um, even if it, God's not
00:29:16.920blessing it currently tangibly invisible ways that you can see, you may still have a deep sense and
00:29:22.620wise counsel that says, stick it out. And that's fine too. Um, but at the household level, maybe
00:29:28.580time to fall back. At the church planting level, it may be time to fall back. And if we're talking
00:29:33.160about missionaries, it's the same thing, just another case study, but same principle. That
00:29:37.620would just be the same conversation for church planters, but now applied instead of domestically,
00:29:41.840we would apply it abroad. The principle applies there too. What do you think,
00:29:46.660what do you think, Eric, about just the overarching evangelical, especially I think
00:29:53.620Baptists and Southern Baptists, what do you think right now in regards to our current status
00:29:59.400of what we've done the last 50 years, where we're at today, when it comes to foreign missions,
00:38:20.860And so I think for a lot of people, most people, you're not going to be called to be, you know, even if you take the gift of the spirit of being an evangelist, the reason it's a gifting is because not everyone has that.
00:38:34.000But I was sort of raised into Christianity where it's like, if you're not street preaching and evangelizing and going on mission trips, basically, you're not really a Christian.
00:38:42.540I think that's where we've gotten out of balance.
00:38:44.680One of the other things I would point to, if you look at Mark's gospel, chapter five and verse 18, right?
00:39:02.440Jesus did not let him, but he said, go home to your own people and tell them how much the Lord has done for you and how he has had mercy on you.
00:39:11.080So you see, that's going to be the case for so many of us.
00:39:13.700like go home and tell your family, go home and still be a part of your community where you live.
00:39:18.480And it's going to be natural that that is going to be the focal point for most people. Again,
00:39:22.780doesn't mean that you can't support missionary work. It's important. We're grateful for people
00:39:27.760who are doing that work, but is it going to be the first order of priority for most people?
00:39:32.240My argument would be no. Yep. I think it's, yeah, I think that's well said. It's the same as
00:39:38.360pastors, missionaries. I mean, that's what they are. Missionaries are pastors somewhere else.
00:39:44.340If it's domestic, we call them pastors. If it's abroad, we call them missionaries. That's, you
00:39:49.220know, there may be some exceptions, but in a general sense, that's most of it. And what I
00:39:53.260was going to say is just, you know, missionary proper, capital M missionary, not everybody's
00:39:59.880called to that. So, so we could, you know, cause I, some guys say, you know, I've seen this on
00:40:04.520twitter right you know this is like there are different levels of jesus jukes this is like
00:40:08.780jesus juke 5000 i mean this is special really special um but there's some guys that like
00:40:13.920they're capable of a jesus juke 5000 this is what they would say they would say uh
00:40:18.400they say well uh did you hear what joel webbin said uh imagine uh being a pastor a minister of
00:40:27.500the gospel and being so unfamiliar with the gospel that he doesn't recognize that everyone
00:40:32.420is called to do the work of a missionary it's like wow that i mean that's that's a special
00:40:38.060twitter uh response right there five thousand yeah that's like level jesus juke level five
00:40:44.020thousand incredible um well on unprecedented levels but my point is yeah um every man is
00:40:50.260called to be a shepherd a pastor lowercase p in the general sense in his home but not every man
00:40:56.320in the proper sense will be a capital P pastor as an ordained officer, an ecclesiastical office
00:41:04.620in the local church. Most people won't be. And I think it's the same thing for missionaries. So
00:41:09.700is everyone called to do the work of an evangelist in their everyday lives with their neighbors,
00:41:14.480with their homes, their family? Amen. Yes and amen. So everyone, every man is going to be a
00:41:19.800lowercase p pastor. Everyone is going to be a lowercase m missionary, but not everyone will
00:41:24.880have the ecclesiastical office of capital p pastor proper and likewise not everyone is going to be
00:41:31.780qualified to be a capital m missionary proper and and if we can't understand but guys just they blur
00:41:39.460guys don't like to lose arguments so what do you do when you don't have the substance to support
00:41:45.480your position you just you blur you just yeah he said you know and and you you you either can't
00:41:53.160you actually are incapable of thinking in categories
00:41:55.300or you pretend to be incapable of thinking in categories
00:42:55.360All you have to do is cover the shipping.
00:42:57.880So head on over to squirrelyjoes.com forward slash Right Response.
00:43:02.780Again, that's squirrelyjoes.com forward slash Right Response
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00:44:36.760your free 30-minute consultation today. Yeah, 100%. And Joel, I was thinking of some examples
00:44:43.300of how you see the misplaced priority play out. I've been in churches where a pastor's being paid
00:44:51.380$30,000 to $40,000 in the economy today in many places. It's not a living wage. Guys are working
00:44:58.300two or three jobs. And yet the church would still send a $30,000 check each year to orphanages
00:45:05.780overseas. And I remember seeing that and I asked a deacon about it and I said, what in the world?
00:45:11.480I mean, our pastor, he doesn't have a living wage to take care of this church and you're sending
00:45:17.140all that money to orphanages. And they said, listen, we'll keep him poor and God will keep
00:45:22.500him humble. And I remember just being so disgusted by that. Like, shouldn't the first order a
00:45:28.200priority? Like if you're sending missionaries, it should be because you have a bounty and an
00:45:31.760overflow. Right. Right. And so that's what you're sending. And yeah, we should do that work. It's
00:45:36.160great, whatever. But we can't, we're not even taking care of the guy who is serving us on a
00:45:40.580daily basis. That seems wrong. The other one that I would say is, you know, you used to hear things
00:45:45.460from guys like John Piper, you know, appreciate their work on missionary stuff. A lot of it was
00:45:50.140really good, but he would say things like go send or disobey. And it's like, so it's kind of giving
00:45:56.800you the flavor of like, you need to be like passionately involved in missions or you're a0.84
00:46:01.180disobedient Christian? What if I'm passionate about running a business in my local community0.63
00:46:06.340and employing 10 fathers and heads of household? What if that's my passion? And what if I devote
00:46:12.640almost all my attention, time, and money to that thing? Well, in that category, if I'm not thinking
00:46:18.480about missions all the time, I'm disobedient. Meanwhile, the same pastor had a really weird
00:46:24.280position where he was defending, not defending his wife against an intruder. So I look at that and I'm
00:46:31.180Okay, let's re-examine the priorities.
00:46:34.500We should read the Westminster Confession of Faith on murder and what's required, namely the protection of life, would be the opposite command.
00:46:46.080So, you know, and this is going to be hard, Joel, because for a lot of us, look, I was an SBC lifer for a long time.
00:47:15.020And you have to start with maybe we could be wrong.
00:47:18.680Maybe we could be wrong and maybe it's really hard to do.
00:47:22.000But if we're losing 80% of our kids, not just like how do we change the youth group program, but maybe we need to rethink some fundamental presuppositions about the way we're approaching church, ministry, and vocation all together.