00:04:51.420Yeah. I, I could just echo what, what CJ said there that we've, yeah,
00:04:55.980we've been, we've been following this stuff for, yeah,
00:04:59.060at least 10 years and we've known each other, I think since like 2014.
00:05:02.220uh and yeah we were we were in the libertarian ron paul kind of world and over time we independently
00:05:11.280of each other both were like wait this you know this world that we used to have doesn't really
00:05:17.680exist anymore and we we still certainly love you know liberty and freedom and and you know the
00:05:25.140free market things like that but it's like no our whole our whole society has been destroyed
00:05:29.500And there is nothing we can do except for fight back and restore order. That is the biggest thing that's needed is just a restoration of sanity and normal political order. And you're not going to be able to affect that by appealing to the non-aggression principle, things like that.
00:05:54.740So, yeah, we just kind of moved more rightward. I read, I started reading, you know, like Russell Kirk and and men like that. I was reading Paul Gottfried, who's friends with CJ and thinking, oh, these guys get it.
00:06:11.320Like they get what, what was going on and what, what we have to do and how, how a society functions and works and, and where the political element of that is important, which, you know, in the libertarian world was very neglected.
00:06:26.380And so, yeah, we, we, and we both kind of came at it from different directions, but we certainly at the time probably had very different theological perspectives or not, you know, different within the reformed world, at least.
00:06:39.880Um, and over time we both kind of came to the same position where it's like, no, there, there is, um, there's an order that God has, has built into the universe.
00:06:49.340He's, he's written it into, into the, into the world, into his creation.
00:06:54.040And it perfectly conforms with what he says in his word too.
00:06:57.600So it's like, you know, I was, I was much more theonomic and CJ was much more natural law.
00:07:02.080And we both were like, we don't really have to be in conflict at all with these things.
00:07:08.480Um, that, that there's a way that, that both these perspectives, you know, more or less, uh, fit together. And, and we viewed, you know, politics from, from the same frame, uh, that, that, that politics is something that, you know, certainly in the last hundred years in the evangelical world is something that's been just completely ignored.
00:07:27.720that there is no you know christian understanding of of the political and and so for me like i i
00:07:35.760looked at that i thought like this is something that we have to recover and restore there's so
00:07:38.900much like we've we've i don't know if we mentioned steven wolf yet but like he's done a ton of work
00:07:44.180just recovering uh what what reformed thinkers hundreds of years ago thought about politics
00:07:49.820and it's like wow this stuff is great this has been here the whole time i can't believe it uh
00:07:54.400You know, people, you know, wise theologians and pastors and writers and thinkers had a lot of good stuff to say about things that are relevant to us today.
00:08:05.500And we've just totally neglected all of that completely to have this sort of pietistic, almost anabaptistic view of politics where it's like, oh, I'm only going to preach the gospel and everything else, right, doesn't matter because I'm preaching the gospel.
00:08:20.860And it's like, that's not how reformed people talked about their world at all 100, 200, 300 years ago.
00:08:26.420And so we've kind of dived headfirst or dove headfirst into that.
00:09:14.500He's got priorities that reflect our own.
00:09:16.660and he's now writing bills to outlaw pornography in oklahoma it's like these we can do this this
00:09:23.200is happening it's possible yeah right yeah absolutely yeah the part of the problem is
00:09:28.720evangelicals and people in general and not just picking on christians but in today's world our
00:09:32.640culture we can't we just can't think in categories we can't speak in categories and so you know for
00:09:38.080a lot of christians it's just you know preach the gospel the gospel alone you know like uh you know
00:09:42.660trump is not the savior of the world he's not you know you're not going to have a political savior
00:09:46.380jesus is the savior and say you're you're we're talking past each other of course jesus is the
00:09:51.800savior like which i resent those kind of remarks because really that's i mean that's a that's
00:09:56.920actually levying levying a very serious accusation in charge it's it's just straight up calling you
00:10:02.340um a heretic like because what they're asserting is that that you worship donald trump or you
00:10:06.660literally but it's like you know i don't believe that you know i'm not praying to donald trump
00:10:11.400you know i haven't asked donald trump into my heart and to forgive me of my sins like
00:10:16.040like you know that but you're still doing it so it's not even ignorance at that point it's just
00:10:20.000it's it's um it's devious and sinister it's it's levying a false charge against a fellow brother
00:10:24.680you know sister in christ and and so but we the problem is part of it is you know like i said some
00:10:29.880of these guys are sinister but but for others who maybe are the less sinister breed um it's just0.99
00:10:35.340just astounding ignorance and stupidity, but we need to work on ourselves. We need to grow. We1.00
00:10:42.380need to be discipled. We need to learn. We need to realize, okay, you know what? The civil magistrate
00:10:46.840bearing the sword, you can legislate morality. That's all legislation is. And absolutely,
00:10:52.820that makes a difference because we're not just talking about eternal salvation. That's first
00:10:58.020and foremost. That's the highest. But we're also talking about, I'd love for my kids not to be in
00:11:04.640physical danger. I would like for them to be able to live a long life on the earth and be protected
00:11:09.280from degenerates and criminals and murderers. And the state does that. The state with the sword
00:11:16.620says, I'm sorry, you cannot do this wicked thing. And if you do this wicked thing, we're not going
00:11:25.000to preach the gospel to you. We're not going to ask you politely to stop. We're going to hang you.
00:11:30.320Like I recently had a show where I said, you know, I was talking about like, I was, well, you know, I was talking about at the time, it wasn't that recent, I guess it was a while back, but I was talking about Ketanji Brown Jackson and just saying that, you know, I don't believe that women should serve in these positions of leadership.1.00
00:11:48.540And in part, because I don't believe that they're designed for it.0.97
00:11:52.260I believe it's unbiblical, but God's not arbitrary with his rules and what the Bible teaches.0.99
00:11:57.220I think they're not suited for it.1.00
00:11:59.120And so I said like, you know, women are uniquely designed by God to nurture, but criminals don't need nurturing, they need hanging. And that's what men do. Men hang well. And so, you know, and that was like my, you know, my big, you know, quote zinger. And so, you know, but my point is that like, now I'm thinking about that now. And I'm thinking about sadly, you know, like, I mean, she seems like a wonderful woman in many regards, but now I'm thinking about, you know, Amy, Amy Coney Barrett.
00:12:25.140Um, and I'm thinking, and here's the deal.
00:12:36.880But one of the things right now, I think with evangelicals is we can't speak in categories.
00:12:40.740Also, um, evangelicals have been discipled to despise nature, right?
00:12:44.540So they only care about the spiritual, they hate, cause that's a common denominator, whether
00:12:48.220it's adoption or whether it's, um, uh, tweets about why you should dress up on Sunday or
00:12:53.880why working out matters or why a man should have a gun to protect. All those are natural things.
00:12:59.780And nature, anything natural is viewed as vanity. It's viewed as sinful. It's viewed as,
00:13:05.180at best, it's viewed as a distraction and without value. At worst, some of the more devious players
00:13:12.500within evangelicalism will actually say that you're doing something destructive and it's bad.
00:13:17.340It's heretical. It's idolatry. Exactly. Idolatry. And so my point is that with the adoption thing,
00:13:23.660what Eric Kahn was getting at, he wasn't dogging adoption. People are reading in the least
00:13:28.060charitable light, but what he was trying to say is that nature matters. Nature matters. Once you're
00:13:32.840adopted, then that is your child. That is your child and you have more obligations as a parent
00:13:37.180to provide, to love, all those kinds of things. But he was talking about the decision to adopt
00:13:41.220before they've become your child and saying you shouldn't adopt another child to become your
00:13:47.800child. They're not your child yet. If it's going to put you in a precarious situation where you're
00:13:53.100compromised in your moral obligation to your natural children, if you already have children.
00:13:57.600And there's case study after case study of adopting through the foster care system,
00:14:01.240which is a wonderful thing to do with wisdom, with prudence, but adopting an older child that's
00:14:06.320going to come in and you have a two-year-old and this older child is 13 and has been through the
00:14:12.000fight. That may not be the wisest thing to do. It was a perfectly reasonable tweet,
00:14:16.000but he gets destroyed. All that back to the Amy Coney Barrett. My point is,0.94
00:14:19.140is it a coincidence that um not a man but a woman on the supreme court it was all five women who
00:14:25.420over you know who overruled texas john roberts but yeah well you're right yeah yeah i think joel
00:14:31.700joel was setting up for that joel's right yeah women of both sexes uh but yeah but but it's
00:14:37.160four women and and one one dude that we can count on um to to vote the wrong way but um but it's
00:14:43.020it's so it's these five individuals overruling texas right to stop an invasion of military
00:14:48.520fighting age men at our border by the millions uh that endanger our prodigy our native citizens
00:14:55.820our natural people um for the foreigner so that the foreigner uh we're gonna we're gonna let the0.62
00:15:01.680foreigner in as it is it a coincidence that the woman that if for most of uh cases is is more
00:15:08.680conservative by comparison on the court of of nine individuals but on this particular issue
00:15:13.980that deals with loving the stranger at the cost of your natural kinsmen and your native citizens.
00:15:22.680And here's the woman who's not just a woman, but also has several children and more than one of
00:15:28.000them adopted. And I thought, as I was watching that, I thought about that and how it related
00:15:33.160to the Eric Kahn tweet. And I thought, gosh, I wish evangelicals could not clutch their pearls
00:15:40.080and could speak in categories and not be such pietist and think about the ramifications of
00:15:44.960nature and could have read eric khan's tweet and saw he's got a point and here it is just just a
00:15:50.420few weeks later i don't think that's a coincidence just a few or maybe a couple months later here's
00:15:55.460here's a a real world situation with massive implications that is exactly what eric khan i
00:16:01.340mean it's almost like he's a prophet like what he was talking about what do you guys think about
00:16:05.160that yeah it's um so so andrew said in the beginning that he was more theonomic and i was
00:16:10.780more natural law um that's not quite true i've actually come to respect nature uh in a much more
00:16:17.300robust way over the last you know three years i never would have considered myself um i so you
00:16:23.320know there's just the the classic you know tomist scholastic you know frame you know framework about
00:16:29.020you know, that grace restores and upholds nature. It doesn't repudiate it. I think that that
00:16:35.900framework, I think, is at the root of so many of our conversations that people think the function0.98
00:16:41.980of Christianity is basically to undermine and tear down nature, which is evil and disgusting0.98
00:16:47.940and bad. And we should we should be suspicious and cynical of anything relating to nature and1.00
00:16:54.100natural things. Whereas the classical view, the traditional view, the view that the Bible echoes
00:17:00.080or presumes in its own framework is that it's God's nature. He created the order. He's the
00:17:09.400one that created the world and nature reflects his own character. And what grace does is it allows us
00:17:14.800to reorient ourselves to pursue it and to build it up and to glorify God with it in a way that
00:17:23.640we couldn't before grace. So grace not only restores nature, but it reinvigorates us. And so
00:17:31.600the natural part of our humanity in our world is something that we should uphold and we should
00:17:37.320study and we should praise. I mean, you know, Eric Kahn's tweet, you see it reflected in the
00:17:43.000Supreme Court. You also see it reflected in the overall atmosphere of our political
00:17:47.240culture. It's very feminine, and that has consequences. I often talk to Andrew about0.98
00:17:54.340the character of our totalitarianism. When you look at Soviet Russia and China, those were very
00:17:59.940masculine totalitarianisms. You had a gun to your head, and you had to submit. There were
00:18:05.660physical consequences. There were beatings. Those were all the aspects of communistic
00:18:12.480totalitarianism. Our totalitarianism is very much a feminine totalitarianism.1.00
00:18:17.240You have to think in terms of psychological categories. You have to think in terms of emotional victims. You have to think in terms of love. Everything's framed in love and hate and all of these things. It's a very feminine thing. If you hurt the wrong people, you can get fired. That never would have happened in communist Russia.1.00
00:18:35.260I mean, they were they were they had outlawed homosexuality there. They still do. The Communist Party is the one that's actually right now. The Communist Party is the one that's seeking to outlaw homosexuality in Russia. Why? Because ours is a feminine totalitarianism and it seeks to undermine nature.1.00
00:18:51.560And that's one of the consequences of distorting nature is the political ramifications are distorted. They're grotesque. They're disturbing. And a lot of that is because we don't treat nature with a very pious, pious in the good sense, a very pious mentality. You know, we have no reverence for nature at all. We seek to destroy it. And, you know, our society reflects that, that endeavor.0.99
00:19:16.140Yeah, I think CJ is right. And I'm sorry for saying, oh yeah, you were the natural law guy. You got on it earlier than I did. That's what I mean.
00:19:28.860But yeah, I think that is that's very true that that a lot of people, they they I don't want to use the G word, but I think I got to the it's almost this Gnostic view that matter is bad, that the world is bad, that that anything material and physical is is axiomatically bad in contrast to the spiritual.
00:19:55.140right that's a huge undercurrent uh within american evangelicalism and 100 and and it
00:20:01.840perfectly fits with this kind of effeminate totalitarianism that cj is describing because
00:20:09.220right that's precisely what they're trying to do they're trying to destroy
00:20:12.680nature they're trying to destroy the the order of the world that god has created and and um you
00:20:19.920know the the communists in the 20th century they were trying to do that too but it was from like
00:20:23.180the top down right it was from um it was from like macroeconomics down that they were trying to
00:20:29.940reorder nature whereas um our totalitarianism it's it's from like the bottom up you know it's
00:20:37.200like the fundamental you know basis of a society that god has created is that men are men and women
00:20:43.380are women and and a man takes a wife and they have children and that's how society continue or human
00:20:49.580civilization continues on, but it's, it's disordering that at the very root. Right. And so0.78
00:20:55.260rather than, you know, taking, taking a human civilization from the top saying, all right,
00:21:00.880we're, here's how we're going to order the economy and, and, and use brute force to accomplish that.0.92
00:21:05.680It's, we're going to subvert what it means to be a man or a woman from, from the very get go,0.98
00:21:11.500from the very bottom. And so, you know, the, the evangelical, like very pietistic,0.56
00:21:17.080anti-material world of viewpoint perfectly meshes with that. And so it presents like no
00:21:29.380conflict to it whatsoever. So when you have a reinvigorated Christianity that has a respect,
00:21:39.000or even, you know, CJ says, like it views nature piously, right?
00:21:45.800It views it that God has created this world and it's good.
00:21:50.340It's marred by sin, but grace takes away that sin
00:21:54.220and restores nature to how he wants it to be.
00:21:58.120That that presents a direct challenge to all of this.
00:22:02.180And so you see, like, yeah, we mentioned like Dusty, right?
00:22:04.680There was a story, you know, as of when we're recording this,
00:22:08.160You know, recently there was the story in the New York Post about him and they're all freaking out about, you know, one little state senator in Oklahoma, right?
00:22:15.680Like one of the small state that is flyover country, they don't care about it all.
00:22:21.420It's like, well, how dare this guy try to roll back degeneracy in our in our in our glorious country.
00:22:27.780and right there they're threatened by this stuff because that's this is just basic basic
00:22:33.120christianity that he in basic christian moral order that that he is working to restore and
00:22:39.920they he's working to restore with power by exercising power he's not just dusty and dusty's
00:22:46.340a pastor so he is preaching the gospel and he's preaching the gospel to unbelievers in his personal
00:22:50.900life and evangelism and all those kinds of things and unbelievers who might show up on a sunday
00:22:54.420morning. But he's not only doing that. He's saying, I'm going to do that, but then I'm also
00:22:58.260going to run for office. He's now a state senator. He won in his district. And immediately, it's only
00:23:03.980been a few weeks, he's already submitted nine different bills to abolish income tax, to abolish
00:23:09.300abortion, to abolish pornography. That's the one that the New York Post is freaking out about.
00:23:13.660Like, how in the world could such far-right extremist Christians think that you could
00:23:19.580actually have a law a legitimate law that says um uh watching uh pornography is is bad and you're
00:23:28.700not allowed to do it and it's like we're so far gone at this point as a culture that you know that
00:23:33.140that basic i mean that's just a basic christian thought um that that just seems um that you know
00:23:39.620and even the sad thing is even christians those or at least they would profess to be christians
00:23:43.280they would say yeah pornography is bad but you can't you can't uh use laws to to make it illegal
00:23:48.740yes you can all right everybody's been asking can i live stream your conference and the answer is
00:23:54.820a resounding no you will be there in person or you will not be there at all i'm just kidding
00:24:00.400you actually can live stream the conference we're excited to announce we're making it available to
00:24:04.860anybody and everybody who wants to watch this conference right as it's happening which is
00:24:10.080march 1st and 2nd that's a friday and saturday of 2024 what conference am i even talking about
00:24:16.080it's called Blueprints for Christendom 2.0. We've got Pastor Douglas Wilson, we've got Dr. Joe Boot,
00:24:22.140we've got Brian Sauve, we've got Eric Kahn, and then of course, yours truly, Joel Webin. We've got
00:24:27.340seven primary sessions in the conference, each one being probably 50 to 60 minute long sessions,
00:24:34.540lectures, sermons, whatever you want to call them, and then two live panels, each being an hour and a
00:24:40.240half long. Now, one of the panels is on biblical patriarchy. We're going to have Pastor Douglas
00:24:44.960wilson available for that panel and we decided to get eric khan because eric khan biblical
00:24:50.440patriarchy let's just be honest it's a sensitive topic but eric khan i think is known as one of
00:24:55.740the most nuanced careful and sensitive individuals especially on the twitter street so we're going
00:25:00.360to have him as a part of that panel it'll go really well then the second panel is haunted
00:25:05.040cosmos live show you've got brian sauve and ben garrett talking about the most unhinged things
00:25:11.080imaginable, hopefully some things that are actually truthful. Now, there will be some
00:25:15.600truthful things. They're going to stick to scripture, and when they speculate, and you know
00:25:18.700they will, they'll at least let you know that it's speculation, and they won't pass it off as though
00:25:23.260it's in the infallible Word of God. So, live stream this conference. How do you do it? Go to
00:25:27.720patreon.com forward slash right response ministries. Again, that's patreon.com forward slash right
00:25:36.340response ministries a lot of guys charge 50 bucks 60 bucks 80 bucks we are asking that you
00:25:42.320would simply partner with us for 10 a month and let's be real you could do it one month
00:25:48.160live stream all the content and then cancel your subscription and if you do no harm no foul if you
00:25:53.700want to stick with us and support this ministry what god's doing through right response then
00:25:57.700praise god that's great and we thank you either way technically it's only 10 bucks it's really
00:26:03.280It's really it's really important to emphasize that, like, you know, this is considered an extreme right position to want to ban pornography.
00:26:10.600But when you look at fifteen hundred, you know, eighteen hundred years, whatever of Christendom, it's only the last like maybe like 40 years where this was considered like a legitimate human right.
00:30:58.360They know how to use incentives, economic incentives, personal threats.
00:31:02.300They will do what they can to prevent Trump from winning.
00:31:05.560So I think that's, so how successful are they going to be? You know, what, to what end would they do this stuff? I mean, I think they'll start with a layer of indictments, you know, see how that goes. I think that will make Trump even more popular. I think people, people are sort of in the mood that they actually want to see him get indicted and they want to see him, they want to see him get elected, you know, from prison, basically, pardon him.
00:31:26.820I mean, seriously, but evangelicals jump in on this and say, yeah, because you like criminals and you're not very Christian in the way you approach things, but they never ask themselves, how is it that heritage America, that people who can find four, five, six generations of roots here in America, how is it that these forgotten Americans would despise the system so much that they want to see a political candidate in that situation challenge the regime in such a humiliating way?
00:31:54.520Nobody asks what they're feeling, what they're going through. They don't care. So the question is, to what extent do the political elites hate everyday Americans? And I think that they would do anything to get Trump elected. I don't think the indictments will work, as I just said. So they have to go to the next layer.
00:32:12.180The next layer includes things like, you know, all the the legal rules that they changed in the run up to 2020.
00:32:18.840And so that's the next layer of things. And then they could they could go forward.
00:32:22.820They could steal the election. They've already proven that they could do it.
00:32:25.160You know, I want to be careful with your with your channel, but they're you know, they're very skilled in getting what they want.
00:32:30.380You know, their preferred candidate. So I don't think that it's something that we should take lightly.
00:32:36.260I think that they have experience. They also have all the mechanisms and infrastructure set up to do this again.
00:32:42.180so and then of course worst case scenario would they go to the extent of ending his life i don't
00:32:50.260see why they wouldn't i mean they do this all the time um they they hate he's he's just a proxy um
00:32:56.040for the people they actually hate in the united states and just like he's just a proxy um for our
00:33:00.640own political interests it's not like you know we we looked at all the candidates and we're like
00:33:04.400we're going to choose this liberal cosmopolitan real estate developer in new york no he's a proxy
00:33:08.940that expresses our discontent you know that's what he is which is that is a phenomenon in itself i
00:33:14.800was talking to you know one of my friends recently and just saying how is it that a hollywood a guy
00:33:19.560forged in the belly of hollywood a billionaire um how is it that uh everyday americans not the
00:33:26.740elite but blue collar you know working americans and flyover country say that's our our guy i
00:33:31.720identify with him it's not because of his his economic status certainly he has nothing in
00:33:36.400common with a guy who makes, you know, $45,000, um, annually, you know, when he he's, you know,
00:33:41.780worth, you know, a lot of money. And so it's not that, and it's not even his character. Like I,
00:33:47.460I'm, I'm perfectly happy to say, like, I don't think I would have Donald Trump babysit my kids,
00:33:51.780you know, but, um, you know, I, obviously I think DeSantis is the better, the better man in terms
00:33:56.280of character, in terms of, you know, lots of other things. So then what's the, I, I, uh, the piece of
00:34:01.320identification, like the mugshot, you know, which is, I mean, that's a historic, iconic picture
00:34:05.420that like kids will be reading, you know, see that in textbooks, you know, when they arrested
00:34:08.680Donald Trump and actually took his picture, which was a bad move. If you look at like the polls in
00:34:13.100the primaries, when, when was it that, that Trump, right? Because there was a moment where it was
00:34:16.960like an 11, 10, 11 point, you know, difference between Trump and DeSantis. And then Trump just
00:34:21.140launched into the stratosphere and DeSantis started going down. This is, this is my point.
00:34:25.580It was when they started doing more indictments, when they started, when they started attacking
00:34:32.060him more. That's the identification piece. The American that identifies with Trump, it's not
00:34:37.900because he's a billionaire and most people are poor. They identify with him because he keeps
00:34:46.300getting picked on. He keeps getting pushed. He keeps getting pressed. He keeps getting lied about.
00:34:51.980He keeps getting charges on the legal system coming after him just for existing. And that's
00:34:58.560where people say, he's like me. He's like me. And you're right, CJ. Instead, what evangelical
00:35:04.920pastors sadly do is they see evangelicals turn out in droves in 2016 for Trump. And then in the
00:35:12.660primaries, again, now showing up for Trump instead of DeSantis in Iowa, and it wasn't even close.
00:35:18.900And then immediately our evangelical leaders, what they do is they chastise the Christians
00:35:44.840the only reason why Christians could vote for Trump0.80
00:35:47.120is because evangelicals today are godless,0.95
00:35:50.020because evangelicals today don't have morals,0.82
00:35:52.240Because evangelicals today are also corrupted and compromised and morally, spiritually, because they only think in moral spiritual categories.
00:36:00.480They can't think outside of that and think of power, systems, the regime, and thinking, hey, maybe they want Trump in office not because he's a great guy that they want to make the godfather of their next kid.
00:36:11.780Maybe they want Trump in office because if there was a literal wrecking ball on the ballot, they would vote for that.
00:36:21.120Exactly. So that's my prediction is they wish if they could get away with it, they would go all the way. So that's my prediction.
00:36:28.540Would you like to get control of your money and set up a system that will guarantee for the rest of your life tax protected compounding interest and growth?
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00:37:53.360giveaway drawing. Yeah, mine is similar to that. I think that, right, they showed what they can do
00:38:02.660in 2020. I mean, there was the Time Magazine story right after the election about, I mean,
00:38:07.220just bragging about all the money that Mark Zuckerberg put into it and all of the election
00:38:12.800law changes and how they fortified the election, right? To prevent Donald Trump from getting
00:38:18.480reelected. And so they bragged about it, right? And it was at the time where you couldn't say the
00:38:26.840things they said in Time Magazine on Twitter or Facebook, like your posts would get taken down
00:38:32.160if you verbatim said the same things they said in that Time Magazine story, but they could say it,
00:38:36.600Right. So they've proven that they can do these things and they've proven overseas the kind of stuff that they've they've done.
00:38:44.060And and yeah, 2020 was this color revolution where you have you have the pandemic, which is mysterious in its origins, to say the least.
00:38:54.540And then you have radical left wing agitators provoke riots throughout the country for months.
00:39:02.540And I mean, this is the same. This is literally what they did in Ukraine in 2014. And so other than the pandemic. And so they're well practiced at these kinds of operations.
00:39:17.160And the lawfare thing is – and the indictments – I mean I think like the D.C. case is one where he's not going to get a fair trial in Washington, D.C.
00:39:31.180He's not going to be before a jury that is going to look at it impartially or anything.
00:39:35.280It's like the D.C. case is going to be like the Chauvin case in Minneapolis where it's like he's probably going to lose it.
00:39:41.580No matter what his lawyers argue, no matter what evidence there is, it's already written.
00:39:47.160Like there's, there's, he's going to be found guilty. Um, and so the question there is, you know, the timing, does it happen before the election or will it continue, you know, after he's elected president that, that, that might obscure things a little bit, but, um, they've, they've attempted these things.
00:40:05.260And I think they attempted the indictments thinking that once he's indicted, that'll make people think that'll make him drop in the polls.
00:40:11.680And then someone else, DeSantis or Nikki Haley or whoever else was running at the time, will take over.
00:40:17.120I think that was the play that they were trying to run.
00:40:20.860Because they fundamentally don't understand the phenomenon of Trump that you guys were just talking about.
00:40:27.440People want him because they hate the regime.
00:42:43.480you know that's just like that's the natural reaction and i don't think that means that
00:42:47.740you're not a christian or you don't care about morals you don't care about character think
00:42:51.820pastors even just stop for a moment and think you know and show a little bit of all that sympathy
00:42:57.320that you you showed when you were woke 15 minutes ago yes we remember you were woke you're writing
00:43:02.200books against it now but you were woke all the sympathy that you had uh towards every single
00:43:07.700person in the church on the left not that long ago like last wednesday um could you show a fraction
00:43:13.080of that a fraction of that um to to the people who pay your salary to the people who have been
00:43:18.720faithful year after year tithing going to the like it's such an insult you know that's the thing too
00:43:24.820like they they talk about um you know we can we can bring up like joe rigney and empathy and things
00:43:29.500like that like they they're all about empathy empathy empathy right empathizing with with the
00:43:34.860the outcast and the stranger and the people you know which just is code for the left right uh
00:43:40.280They're totally empathetic to the left, but normal average Americans who have jobs and families and mortgages and are trying to get by and see someone who they think might make my life better, might make my country better.
00:43:56.980and because that's his vision and this is why he connects with people is is because he presents
00:44:02.460this positive this positive vision of of what he wants the country to be what we want the country
00:44:10.160to be we want the country to be great again uh to say that's not and it could be once more like
00:44:15.520that's that's a powerful thing that connects with a lot of people and they can't empathize in the
00:44:20.200least with that they can't understand what normal people are going through they can't understand
00:44:24.840the fact that all of our major cities are completely overrun with crime. And people
00:44:29.920are very concerned with that. They can't understand that tens of millions of foreign0.91
00:44:35.220people from third world countries rushing your borders might actually be a bad thing for ordinary1.00
00:44:40.860people. They can't even conceptualize that state of mind that regular people have. And so you have1.00
00:44:49.100people like Beth Moore who will say, oh, they just want to bully and a nasty person. They've
00:44:53.420fallen and it's there you know that all of this moral disorder and evangelicalism that's what it's
00:44:57.740a symbol of and it's like no it's it's not that at all and they they don't want to care about
00:45:03.200the people of our country at all and it's much easier to just chastise them well the other thing
00:45:08.820too is you know they they go back to our conversation about nature and grace i mean the
00:45:13.780response to all this is you know you're putting too much stock in your own well-being here on
00:45:18.120earth you're putting too much stock in you know you know the quality of your of your life the
00:45:21.860material value of the things that you possess and the things you know your god says not to worry
00:45:26.660about your food you know look at the birds of the air and so they use this very pious language
00:45:30.320basically to undermine our own natural instinct our god-given natural instincts to take care
00:45:36.620of our families to build communities to um to build kingdoms on earth i mean that's part of
00:45:42.920our human nature that's part of the task that was given to adam and his posterity is to build
00:45:48.600natural things and so we should care about our well-being because it's not just about us it's
00:45:53.100about our children it's about our grandchildren and the mentality that we are pilgrims on earth
00:45:58.380is being distorted in such a way as to undermine a thousand years of christian development a
00:46:04.920christian society they so so every time someone talks about things like well i can no longer
00:46:10.680afford to eat um half the you know my food bill that i used to like four years ago i can't i can
00:46:16.640only afford half of what I was able to buy four years ago. Well, you're just putting too much
00:46:20.060stock in the natural things of life. God gave us creation to nourish us, to build us so that we
00:46:26.000might be strong and that earthly things might reflect heavenly order. And I think that they
00:46:31.240completely despise and repudiate these classical categories of natural kingdom building.
00:46:39.360Right. And one thing I want to add to that, CJ, is, yeah, so it's definitely the grace,
00:46:44.680nature distinction. They think that grace just, it's supersedes nature. It eradicates nature,
00:46:49.820replaces nature. Then now they, you know, the more conservative evangelical types will, you know,
00:46:55.360they'll, they'll kind of be inconsistent with that, with like Galatians 3.27, there's neither
00:47:00.820male nor female, you know, slave or free, you know, Jew or Greek. And so when it comes to male
00:47:06.220or female, they'll acknowledge, oh, well, you know, but I'm not woke, you know, like a man's
00:47:09.900still a man and a woman's still a woman and we're complementarian and we have only male pastors,
00:47:14.200There's, you know, but then they all of a sudden shift hermeneutics when it comes to Jew or Greek, right?0.89
00:47:20.600So male or female, like that still exists.0.83
00:47:22.960Jew or Greek, that, you know, there's only one race, the human race.
00:47:25.420And I understand that we all descended from Adam.
00:47:49.580And to care about the downstream ancestors to say, I care about Adam and Eve, and I care about my common ancestry, but I also care about Ireland or whatever.
00:48:01.580And so anyways, that should be permissible.
00:48:03.300But what I was going to say is, so what I think is three factors with evangelical leaders and why they don't get the Trump phenomenon and why they're constantly disparaging their own congregants, parishioners, is one, not understanding grace, elevating nature, restoring nature.
00:48:17.760Instead, they think it just replaces nature, that natural things don't matter.
00:53:17.020but dispensational premillennialism that asserts and mandates that things must progressively get
00:53:22.980worse and worse and worse in the future, that dog won't hunt. That eschatology, because that's more
00:53:29.600than just eschatological that's that's a hermeneutic in a way of reading this like that
00:53:34.000that um dispensationalism is like watching the last dinosaur slowly walk off into the sunset like
00:53:39.200that you know that dude he's dead he's he's short shelf life it's it's not coming back so my point
00:53:44.580is could we just look at that look at the reasons and instead of blaming and chastising ask some
00:53:50.020questions maybe maybe we've missed it in the post-war consensus for the last 60 years and
00:53:55.080maybe there's something to this no i 100 agree with you i mean just the fact that there's there's
00:54:00.340certain like um like a demeanor or like an instinct that um you know western christians have had in
00:54:07.260the past which is to honor those who came before you um i mean you mentioned thomas watson that's
00:54:12.360actually relatively recent right right exactly that's why yeah so like just just up until like
00:54:16.980um you know maybe 60 years ago people did have this you know we are the product of good men
00:54:22.780Good men that came before us and blazed a trail. Now, today, we're expected to apologize for them, to repudiate them, and to constantly remind ourselves that those who came before are always bad because they're in the past.
00:54:36.320And chronologically, we're more advanced. And this is just the way that history goes.
00:54:41.640They never consider the fact that, I mean, flyover Americans are reading like historical tomes.
00:54:48.560They're reading biographies of great men. They're not supposed to do this. The intellectual class does not like them to do this. And so when they look to a leader like Trump, who is not like in a silo, like he's not a good man.
00:55:03.200Like you would never, like 10 years ago, you don't have said like Trump is like an ideal Christian man. He's not a Constantine. But that type of man, the fact that he's popular reflects the fact that people are learning from the past and they recognize that leaders like him, great men of history, they are the catalysts for making society great again.
00:55:24.440So they are looking for, you know, and they just, the intellectual class just cannot bear this. It just, it completely wrecks everything that they've built up about themselves and about flyover Americans, about everyday Americans and about the Christianity, you know, the Christian dumb that they actually seek to tear down.
00:55:41.560Right. And the other thing they built up is their revisionist history. And so if people0.94
00:55:45.620are actually reading, you know, men of antiquity, actual history, and not their revisionist
00:55:49.700history, their fake narrative, then people are going to wise up. They're going to say,
00:55:52.460wait, wait, wait, wait, this thing that we want, that we've been told we could never
00:55:55.700have, it just can't happen. We just preach the gospel. No, no, it's not just that we
00:56:00.140could have it. It's, Christendom's not just a dream of something that can't come to fruition.
00:56:05.900Not only is it possible, it's been done before here on this soil.
00:56:11.000that's the thing and not that long ago you know yeah i've been trying to say this about christian
00:56:16.020nationalism like uh you know what you can it's just a label right i didn't like it at first but
00:56:21.460it's it's changed the conversation so that means it was a good label right but the what it means
00:56:26.000it's not this creation of this new never been done utopian framework this blueprint for like
00:56:31.840we have the secret sauce to make a good society it's actually the historical norm like this like
00:56:37.280Like it took – it was reflected in England.
00:57:06.620So, you know, just to go back to the Trump thing and the whole title of the episode, I think if I were like, I don't gamble, I don't bet, nobody should.
00:57:18.460But if I were going to put like money on it, I'd say it's like 60-40 that they will attempt it because things are going to take them out.
00:57:30.060You don't want to say it, but I don't want to.
00:57:33.260I think they will at least at least there will be an attempt, a serious attempt on him.
00:57:40.500And and it only because if you look at how how terrible things are, everyone knows economically, socially, socially, everything else is in a very, very bad place.
00:57:52.580I mean, even people who are maybe predisposed to vote for Democrats will admit this.
00:57:57.300And so he is going to continue to be very, very popular and poll very, very well in many states.
00:58:03.860I think in New York right now, he's like in single digits behind Biden, which is astounding.
00:59:34.360Because the anger at the regime that is deep in the populace of the country, that's not going away.
00:59:42.200And it's going to look for someone to take up that mantle once again.
00:59:48.460Are we going to be part of it or are we going to oppose it, continue to oppose it?
00:59:51.980yep cj did you want to say something nope all right that's great let's let's plug you guys
00:59:58.460again because i want guys to listen um i think your voices are important what you're writing
01:00:03.220what you're uh saying uh your podcast is contra mundum it's uh where can they find you it's on
01:00:09.240youtube uh we stream it on our twitter but like youtube's the best place probably right now for
01:00:13.480us but um yeah follow me on twitter at uh contra mordor um and uh i always post the live links uh
01:00:20.240for the for the podcast there and that's when you get my my fun tweets and my my actual you know
01:00:25.400well thought out uh you know thoughts not just my rambling so yeah you have good you have good
01:00:31.060stuff there yeah definitely follow and then what's your handle uh mine yeah on twitter uh at boniface
01:00:38.840option is my handle and uh and yeah uh we on every friday we've been trying to be consistent now we
01:00:45.520do a live stream on Fridays, usually at five o'clock central. This week might be a little
01:00:50.940different because I'm in Florida. I don't know if everybody heard when Joel mentioned
01:00:56.200DeSantis, he sent a blue heron to attack our stream here. And so I don't know if you heard
01:01:04.580that, but yeah, we might be a little bit late this week, but in the next couple of weeks,
01:01:11.400But usually Fridays at 5 p.m. Central is when we live stream.
01:01:15.780And it's, I mean, you know, Joel, like the live streams are fun because you can interact with people.
01:01:19.760And I think some people, they really like, you know, when I start chuckling at a comment in the middle of the stream, that makes them happy.
01:01:27.460But it's, yeah, it's been great to do.
01:01:31.540We have seen a lot of people, you know, really like, I mean, I get emails and messages from people saying like,
01:01:37.960hey i i didn't know what to think about politics and things like this and i wasn't like looking
01:01:42.260for someone to just give like a vaguely christian spin on whatever you would hear on the daily wire
01:01:48.520right actually what we're trying to do is get christians to think very deeply about politics
01:01:54.880and think about it in very old ways and um and and think about it beyond just like who am i going to
01:02:02.700vote for and how how does the you know how do elections work things like that but rather think
01:02:07.240about it in a much, much bigger picture than really anybody else. Great. So all of our listeners
01:02:15.020check out, we'll put it in the description, their YouTube channel. So you can just look in the
01:02:18.620description, find the link for the YouTube channel. Again, that's Contra Moondum. And then
01:02:22.300you got at Boniface option. If you want to follow Isker on Twitter and then Contra Mordor, is that
01:02:27.780what you said? Contra Mordor. Okay. Contra Mordor. So follow these guys, listen to them, give them
01:02:33.180your support. And then also with Isker, you can go to Amazon if you want to buy his book, The
01:02:36.780Boniface option that came out recently. That's fantastic. A lot of guys have been reading it.
01:02:40.960I read it and he did a great job. So check out the book too. So thank you guys for coming on
01:02:45.000the show. Appreciate it. Thank you, Joel.