The NXR Podcast - THE INTERVIEW - The Fake Sin of ＂Raaaycism＂ w Andrew Isker

00:00:00.000 All right, welcome back to another episode of Theology Applied. I'm your host, Pastor Joel

00:00:03.420 Webbin with Right Response Ministries. In this episode, I've got Andrew Isker. He's the author

00:00:08.120 of The Boniface Option. He also co-wrote a book on Christian nationalism with Andrew Torba from

00:00:13.120 Gab. Andrew Isker is a friend. He's coming on the show. And he's also, this is really important for

00:00:17.940 you to know, he is also one of our primary speakers at our upcoming conference that's

00:00:23.040 happening in April of 2025. Title of the conference is Christ is King. Subtitle,

00:00:30.240 How to Defeat Trash World. We're going to have Stephen Wolfe. We're going to have

00:00:33.620 Orrin McIntyre, Steve Days, Jeff Durbin, just 15 guys. It's an all-star lineup, but one of the guys

00:00:40.320 is Andrew Isker. He's theologically savvy, but he's also culturally and politically astute. He's

00:00:46.100 sharp. He can take things down to the ground level and say, this is what we need to do. Therefore,

00:00:51.820 how then should we live? All right. So that's kind of the things that we're going to be talking

00:00:55.760 about in this episode, particularly in regards to, can we have a country or does the whole

00:01:01.740 world have to live in America? This multiculturalism, is that a good idea? And if we have

00:01:07.900 one culture, does that mean that we don't want different shades of skin pigment? Are we being

00:01:12.220 racist? Neil Shinvey recently wrote an article. It's not that great, but we're going to address

00:01:16.660 all those things in this episode today with Andrew Isker on Theology Applied. Tune in now.

00:01:22.640 Applying God's Word to every aspect of life. This is Theology Applied.

00:01:33.100 All right, welcome back to another episode of Theology Applied. I am your host, Pastor Joel

00:01:37.240 Webben with Right Response Ministries. In this episode, I'm welcoming back my friend Andrew

00:01:41.940 Isker, and we're going to be talking about an article that was recently written by Neil Shinve

00:01:46.980 on the woke right so right out of the gate it's helpful to just get the facts in order one of

00:01:53.460 those facts would be that the woke right doesn't exist that being said let's go ahead and talk

00:01:58.480 about it andrew welcome to the show yes hello joel thank you for having me yeah so what do you think

00:02:04.360 about neil's uh latest masterpiece how'd you enjoy um i think that uh he is identifying something

00:02:13.180 that's occurring, yet he doesn't have a category to understand it. There is clearly a new Christian

00:02:22.300 right that has emerged over the last five or 10 years, certainly the last four years since 2020. 0.85

00:02:31.240 And he's very scared about it, doesn't like it, doesn't like how we engage with all of the issues

00:02:38.880 you're not allowed to talk about ever.

00:02:42.280 And he wants to lump it in with wokeness on the left

00:02:47.260 because he's made kind of his name, right?

00:02:50.720 People know who this guy is

00:02:51.780 because he spent the last five or six years

00:02:55.480 talking about the woke left, the woke,

00:02:59.900 and taking it apart and critical theory

00:03:03.780 and all of these things.

00:03:04.640 And he's like, well, there's these people on the right too

00:03:07.280 that are really bad people that uh they're just like the woke left but from the right right he's

00:03:13.320 he's kind of he's engaging in dialectic and so um yeah he he wants to sound the alarm right here's

00:03:23.600 this big bad boogeyman right everyone should be afraid of and so real quick a couple things about

00:03:29.020 neil shimby one for those who don't know uh part of the pushback that neil shimby has received from

00:03:34.000 uh the woke right doesn't exist but let's say the dissident right or the true right or whatever you

00:03:39.820 want to call it that's been emerging over the last four years because all these guys who really just

00:03:45.060 wanted to you know grill burgers in their backyard on the fourth of july you know and celebrate

00:03:49.480 american heritage and celebrate christ and these kind of things uh have been radicalized because

00:03:55.160 we've realized that we live in a country and ultimately uh an entire world that uh that hates

00:04:01.000 us, hates our ancestors, hates our worldview, hates our heritage, and wants to see people like 0.79

00:04:07.960 you and I completely eradicated from the face of the earth. So that tends to radicalize a person. 0.91

00:04:13.720 And so people have been waking up and people have been saying, well, wait a second, there's

00:04:18.500 something going on here and I want to speak out and I want to obey the fifth commandment and honor

00:04:23.120 my father and honor my mother. I think of Romans 9, where the apostle Paul, he says, of what

00:04:28.340 advantage is there in being a jew uh none whatsoever because uh ethnic ethnicity doesn't

00:04:33.200 matter said the bible never instead he says uh what advantage is there in being a jew much in

00:04:38.160 every way not not salvifically so he's just made that point and saying well you don't have to be a

00:04:43.180 jew according to the flesh in order to be saved and so it leaves the reader thinking well then

00:04:47.600 there's no advantage in being a jew whatsoever but then paul you know he he then adds to his

00:04:52.180 point says well wait a second there is an advantage it's not an eternal salvific advantage but there

00:04:57.180 are temporal benefits and there's a temporal beauty in coming from this ethnic, this covenantal

00:05:05.120 heritage. He says there actually is an advantage in being a Jew much in every way for theirs are

00:05:10.340 the prophets. Theirs is the law. And he talks about the rich heritage and history of the Jewish 0.87

00:05:16.300 people, what God had uniquely done among those people for centuries. And I think that you could

00:05:21.700 say the same as somebody who's Anglo, that you're not inherently superior to any other

00:05:27.060 ethnic people. That's ridiculous. But I think that it is true to say, well, what advantage is there 0.99

00:05:33.560 in being an Anglo-Protestant? Well, much in every way, for theirs are the Puritans, theirs are the 0.99

00:05:37.500 Reformers, theirs is Calvin. Like that is a beautiful thing. And I think that there's been

00:05:43.200 this full court press from the global regime and all these different guys, and even within the

00:05:49.560 evangelical church, maybe it's from, you know, with, with Christians, it's probably a lot of it

00:05:54.240 out of ignorance and just kind of this boomer post-war sentiment theology. But there's been

00:05:59.000 a full court press to basically, if we were to boil it down to the common denominator, it's to 0.96

00:06:03.540 get white people, particularly white male Christians to hate their ancestors, to hate 0.95

00:06:09.140 their heritage. And a lot of young white men are saying, nah, I just don't think I'm going to do 0.97

00:06:15.400 that and posting, you know, memes of Hulk Hogan, you know, or whatever it is, you know, and I'd say,

00:06:20.580 no, I'm just not going to hate my people. Now, my people in the truest eternal spiritual sense

00:06:26.760 are Christians, Christians all over the world. But there is something about natural affections

00:06:31.980 and my people in this temporal plane, this earthly existence. And I do have an obligation

00:06:37.520 first to my wife and my kids and my extended family members, my town, my church, my community.

00:06:42.880 but beyond that right so we're not saying they're all equal right it's tiered it's like ripples

00:06:48.020 spreading out in the water but but there is something to say well I have a particular

00:06:52.480 fidelity and loyalty to my nation and then even within my nation my particular subculture

00:06:58.020 of my nation and so all this being said is every guy on the right articulating these things you

00:07:05.320 know with perfection no and have some guys maybe gone too far sure um but to pretend as though this

00:07:13.900 is the the major problem of the hour is to lose the plot to a degree that is hard to even put into

00:07:21.960 words what do you agree with that assessment yeah i mean just look at uh you know as we're

00:07:27.240 recording this you know things that happened in the last week you know we're a little over the

00:07:30.980 last week right you have in spokane washington a couple kids that rode their scooters over a pride

00:07:38.620 flag crosswalk and they're facing three to five years for putting skid marks on on that pride

00:07:46.360 flag crosswalk did you see the babylon three little like white teenage boys the babylon b 0.68

00:07:51.880 showed a picture of like a pride uh rainbow crosswalk and then the skid marks uh spelled 0.67

00:07:59.120 out free palestine and it said uh they defaced the the rainbow uh crosswalk but they're gonna do

00:08:05.160 now but they're giving them a pass you know yeah that's right yeah yeah no that's hilarious uh i 0.69

00:08:10.440 didn't see that but it's you know i mean it's just it's it's unbelievable right that that you have 0.64

00:08:16.340 that on on the one hand happening uh and yeah and it was just like these like three white like 20

00:08:22.160 year old kids you know um that are are facing prison for for that for this great crime uh and

00:08:29.420 then i mean the other example is this little three-year-old boy this little white three-year-old

00:08:35.740 kid was was stabbed to death in a grocery store parking lot by by a black woman who apparently

00:08:41.520 just wanted to kill a white person and did she say that um i don't know if she said it exactly

00:08:48.500 you said you told me offline that she was like in the court case she's like she's smiling to the 0.97

00:08:53.920 camera yeah there's no sense of remorse and it doesn't it's not like she knew personally the 0.98

00:08:58.900 family and they had wronged her so it does seem that it was random i i want to kill this kid

00:09:03.700 because he's white um but but to be fair that wasn't explicitly said she hasn't stated it as 0.96

00:09:08.880 far as i know uh but it seemed like the the randomness of it and she just randomly killed

00:09:14.360 white kid it just terrible evil evil stuff and and so you look at it like like that example and

00:09:23.560 countless others like that right where people see this right they see this happen they see the 0.94

00:09:28.060 the animus that's um just ever present toward toward white people in general i mean you had

00:09:33.600 like on twitter the other day you know raymond chang saying that that american christianity won't

00:09:40.420 be uh won't be correct or right until we eradicate whiteness from it right i retweeted him and said

00:09:48.140 the exact same thing i said until it's purged of whiteness and then he had a parenthetical note and

00:09:52.640 he said whiteness is not always white people but it kind of is and so then i retweeted the exact

00:09:59.080 wording and i said you know until uh american you know uh evangelicalism and the gospel won't

00:10:04.500 be effective until it's purged of snakes and then i put parenthetically note ching is a snake 0.97

00:10:09.760 that's right yeah yeah well it's just it's it's crazy like you you um that kind of attitude

00:10:16.160 is openly allowed uh openly encouraged right even you know so you look at that like this guy that's

00:10:23.720 a woke guy right if we want to look at like how neil shamby looks at these things and equates the

00:10:28.100 two you know the the um new christian right on the one hand and and the the woke left on the other

00:10:34.880 but there's nobody uh nobody serious anyway other than maybe trolls online but nobody no no figure 0.99

00:10:41.800 that's saying boy we got to get all these all these um non-white people out of here out of our 0.99

00:10:48.660 out of our perfect pristine white christianity nobody's saying that i mean they want to they 0.99

00:10:52.460 want to imagine that steven wolf is saying that but he's not saying that at all well and steven

00:10:56.820 did a great job he didn't say that at this last conference that you were there i was speaking at

00:11:01.340 the conference the new christendom conference and those guys the ogden boys they did a great job

00:11:05.360 hosting and putting that together with relevant you know giving the whole theme of the conference

00:11:10.100 being you know very timely like those those are good guys who know what time it is and so great

00:11:14.420 conference and stephen wolf was there and in his uh lecture you know it um joe rigney was there

00:11:20.560 also and joe rigney in the green room afterwards i remember he said uh he was he was just raving

00:11:25.180 about uh how great of a job stephen did and he says he was like it was beautiful because

00:11:29.720 all of your opponents, all your opposition was, were probably like salivating, you know, watching,

00:11:34.980 you know, like watching you, because it looks like you're like, you're constructing the noose

00:11:39.160 around your neck and hanging it over the rafter, you know, because, because Stephen, his whole

00:11:43.560 thing, his talk was on, um, why multicultural, uh, culturalism is bad, a bad thing, um, that we,

00:11:51.360 we need a monoculture. We need one culture. And then he argues, you know, because to make that

00:11:56.300 point, it begs the question, well, which one, right? If you're only going to have one culture,

00:12:00.180 which one should America, and he's not saying every nation on earth, but America, given our

00:12:04.820 history, given our theology, all these things, which one, which culture should we have if we're

00:12:09.600 going to have a monoculture? And he says, well, it should be not just Protestant. He doesn't just

00:12:14.440 give a denominational or theological basis, but he also gives this ethnic peace using the word

00:12:22.260 ethnic and the old way that old writers would have used it before 1945. But he says, no,

00:12:28.440 it's not just Protestant, it's Anglo-Protestant. And then he spends the rest of the time defining

00:12:33.660 his terms. What do I mean by Protestant? What do I mean by Anglo? But then he concludes by saying,

00:12:39.340 all right, so I've established that we should have, you know, diversity is not our strength.

00:12:43.380 We should have a monoculture. Which one should it be? It should be not just theological,

00:12:47.980 cool, you know, Protestant, but it should be Anglo-Protestant. And then now let me list for

00:12:52.580 you a few of my favorite Anglo-Protestants. And he's, you know, Clarence Thomas. That's one of

00:12:56.740 my favorite, that's one of my favorite Anglo-Protestants. Yeah, no, he's not even Protestant

00:13:01.020 and he's not Anglo. But that's the point, you know, and then he, you know, he gives us another 0.85

00:13:06.480 example. He said, you know, from history and antiquity, you know, Booker T. Washington,

00:13:11.120 right? Another, you know, famous black guy. But what Stephen is saying there is he's saying,

00:13:16.480 um no no clarence thomas if he was dropped uh just just wholesale just dropped down in uganda

00:13:23.880 he would be foreign absolutely foreign to you know to the people there um to the native people

00:13:29.760 of that country in that place uh but no he is for all intents and purposes um he is anglo-protestant

00:13:37.420 he has been swimming in this milieu this culture um and he's he's he's good this is this is he is

00:13:44.880 the net positive for the American people, the American way, our heritage, our future.

00:13:50.460 And so what Stephen is saying is a lot of guys, they're making it about skin color. And so they

00:13:55.480 say, well, you know, these guys are, they're not Christian nationalists. They're white

00:13:58.940 Christian nationalists. And it's like, well, you're, you're slandering us. That's not true. 0.53

00:14:05.560 But, but it is more than just Christian national. You are right about that because

00:14:08.980 you can have Christian nationalism in the Sudan. If, if by God's grace, there was revival there

00:14:13.800 and they're saved. You can have it in El Salvador and you get a little bit of that, you know, and

00:14:17.500 you can have Christian nationalism in Russia or all these different places. So we are arguing for

00:14:22.660 something more specific than just Christian nationalism, because we're arguing for Christian

00:14:26.540 nationalism here in America. And there's going to be a unique strain of Christian nationalism,

00:14:31.820 but it's not white Christian nationalism, but you could say it is Anglo-Protestant Christian

00:14:36.840 nationalism. And what does that mean? It means this European culture, you know, maybe some French,

00:14:43.400 maybe some, you know, Germanic, but primarily this English, Puritan, reformer, Protestant,

00:14:51.840 that kind of culture. And whether or not there are different shades of pigment between me and

00:14:57.920 my neighbors is not our concern. The concern though is, are you on board with the same project?

00:15:05.900 Do you have the same goals, the same ambitions? Can me and my black neighbors go over to each

00:15:12.120 other's backyard on the 4th of July and, and, and see this commonality of tradition and customs

00:15:18.300 and, and, uh, holidays and what we celebrate or, or are my black neighbors celebrating Juneteenth

00:15:25.020 and then I'm celebrating, you know, 4th of July and we have very little in common. Uh, that is,

00:15:30.720 that's a kind of diversity, not with pigment, but a diversity of thought, a diversity of culture

00:15:36.640 that is not our strength. A nation cannot sustain itself if we're fractured like that.

00:15:43.300 And that was Stephen's point. He did an excellent job. And Neil Shenvey probably would have hated

00:15:47.860 it because it basically strips Neil Shenvey of his smoking gun that he thinks he has.

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00:18:07.120 because someone like these are complex, complicated issues. And they're issues that are sensitive.

00:18:13.200 People don't like talking about them. It's, you know, a third rail that people step on. But what

00:18:18.780 what steven was articulating is that it's not racially essentialist right it's not you're only

00:18:24.600 you're only an american if you have the right dna right that's that's not what he's arguing

00:18:29.400 at all he's saying that the that that there is an ethnic component to culture and everybody until

00:18:35.320 you know like 10 minutes ago understood that that there are there there's particularity among

00:18:42.280 various peoples and when you say 10 minutes ago you mean 80 approximately 80 uh 79 years ago

00:18:49.400 yeah in the span of history though like that's what it's like a brief moment to go you're right

00:18:55.800 all people everywhere understood this stuff that that different groups different ethnicity they

00:19:00.820 live in different ways and and that's the way god made the world and it's beautiful actually um but

00:19:06.920 then when you take all these different groups and you you jam them all together in one place

00:19:10.960 and say okay you can have your way of life this way you can have your way of life that way

00:19:15.040 and you're all going to live together right you can you can have your juneteenth and and you can

00:19:19.520 have ramadan and you can have this and that right that then all of those groups are going to have

00:19:24.400 a group identity coalesce around their particular um ethnic identities and they're going to be at

00:19:31.020 war with each other and they're gonna be at war with the majority group and if we ever god forbid

00:19:35.480 did get in a war, you know, with, with foreign nations, which goodness gracious, you know, our, 0.68

00:19:41.980 our political leaders seem to be trying to make that happen every day. But that's, you know,

00:19:47.300 you remember the scene from Braveheart where, you know, the English had taken over, you know,

00:19:51.520 one, one basically Irish tribe that were, you know, or Scottish tribe. And they were basically,

00:19:59.060 I think it was Irish. I can't remember, but basically they were, they were serfs, you know, 0.95

00:20:03.540 serving the English Lord, you know, and the King and fighting in his battalion, his army. And then

00:20:09.040 they send them out, you know, to do, cause they're the grunts. They're like, we'll preserve our

00:20:12.620 English nobles. And so we'll send out the grunts, you know, for this particular battle, because

00:20:17.020 it's this small, you know, peons that we're fighting. Um, and they run out and, uh, and it

00:20:22.380 looks like they're going to battle. And then, and then they stop right when they get next to each

00:20:25.780 other and they start laughing and hugging because it's their native people. And to think my point

00:20:31.020 is i mean that's the same thing that happened with rome you know a lot of empires in america

00:20:35.100 you know i'm not saying it's it's good but it's just the reality america in a lot of ways has

00:20:39.840 more you know similarities to an empire than it does you know a sovereign distinct nation at this

00:20:44.560 point and a lot of empires ultimately they become so powerful that they're they're invulnerable to

00:20:50.080 any foreign threat uh but ultimately the demise is is usually that they implode from the inside

00:20:56.080 and a big reason why they implode is because they spread themselves too thin across too many 0.70

00:21:00.800 non-compatible cultures. And then when the rubber hits the road, hey, turns out that this province

00:21:08.740 over here of whatever people, they're not actually loyal to the empire. They're loyal to their own

00:21:15.700 kind, to their own people, to their own ancestors, and it doesn't work. And again, that is not an

00:21:24.160 ethnic essentialist approach because i would say that there are plenty of people of different

00:21:31.220 shades of skin pigment in america that have been here longer than i have people darker than me

00:21:37.280 but can trace back their ancestry as true you know red-blooded americans further than i can

00:21:43.440 and they very much are united and and their fidelity their loyalty does lie uh with america

00:21:50.020 But this idea of people continuing to come across the border in hordes of military-aged

00:21:56.520 men, this Southern invasion, that's very different.

00:22:00.500 And I think both of us, you and I, acknowledge that America is unique in the sense that America 0.86

00:22:06.660 is never going to be, nor should it, be this 100% white people. 0.99

00:22:13.380 But it should be, I believe, by God's grace, we would like it to be 100% Anglo-Protestant 0.88

00:22:19.440 as a milieu, as a way of life, as a worldview, as a culture, this Anglo-Protestant, and again,

00:22:25.960 see point A, you know, Stephen's point, and I agree with it, that Anglo-Protestant would include

00:22:30.320 something, you know, somebody like Clarence Thomas. So we do need to be aligned with this

00:22:35.380 American heritage as a culture, as a way of thinking, as a cultist, worship and religion

00:22:41.760 and theology and this heritage. But right now, so nobody is talking, I don't know anybody talking

00:22:48.500 about uh taking you know a bunch of black people who have been here for 10 generations and sending

00:22:54.160 them to nigeria i don't know any conversation like that i do know conversations however of saying hey

00:23:00.100 people who got here 15 minutes ago who are not legal citizens from nigeria or from brazil or

00:23:08.140 whatever it may be um yeah that that has to stop that absolutely has to stop yeah yeah yeah i mean

00:23:16.300 And that's part of it too, is that when you import, I mean, just like my example here in Minnesota, we have at least 80,000 Somalis and we have Ilhan Omar, who is the representative and has been caught on tape saying her job is to represent Somalia and to send money over to Somalia.

00:23:37.420 That's her function as a, as a U S Congresswoman. And it's like, that's, you're, you're not an American, right? You, you, you identify yourself as a Somali, right? That's here in America. That's here to, to, you know, strip us bare and take all our stuff and send it over there. Right. That's, that's not an American in any, in any sense whatsoever. So like when you, when you think about like the counter example of what Stephen's talking about, like, well, then who isn't like, well, here you have a Muslim.

00:24:07.420 from somalia who has not assimilated in any way right at all right and is actively opposed to the 0.75

00:24:16.560 interests of heritage americans right that's that's one thing whereas you can have right you

00:24:23.000 have um for instance like senator ted cruz right whose father was from cuba right he's a second

00:24:30.720 generation american and you could you could see like this guy it's he is an american he's a he's

00:24:37.720 a he's protestant he's not always a great politician but he is an american and and yeah he

00:24:43.300 is yeah absolutely like it's it's undeniable and so so i think that so looking at in that frame

00:24:49.420 right in that framework that that um i think you know largely explains what what steven is talking

00:24:56.180 about. But it's an issue because you have this question of like, well, what is American identity?

00:25:03.260 What is an American? And if America is just this melting pot, this economic zone where all the

00:25:10.380 various peoples of the world, 8 billion people on planet earth can come here if they want to

00:25:15.780 and be part of this thing. Well, then there's no distinctiveness whatsoever. It's just a place

00:25:22.340 where people could come and make money or take money it's not it's not a people right right it's

00:25:28.080 not a people at all and um and there's something about that that is um just abhorrent right i mean

00:25:35.860 it's totally against any any natural order any creation and the biggest thing is it's it's not

00:25:41.180 against our um sensibilities just for the listener it's against the bible it's against the word of

00:25:46.660 god that is not how god created the world nations are god's idea i think sometimes people think well

00:25:51.020 nations they think of it uh the same way that like a feminist egalitarian thinks of you know

00:25:56.360 the the curse in genesis 3 they're like well yeah you know god's original design was egalitarianism

00:26:01.980 you know but uh the curse is patriarchy that you know your desire will be for your husband and

00:26:06.900 that's the same kind of language as you find just a little later you know in genesis 4 when it says

00:26:11.520 feminism is the curse exactly so that yeah exactly but they would say no patriarchy is the curse

00:26:16.140 the curse is that you would desire your husband and that word desire there is like the same as 1.00

00:26:20.680 cane you know where sin is crouching at your door desires to have you meaning it wants to master you

00:26:26.280 wants to rule you dominate you sin does but you must master it you must rule over sin and so that

00:26:32.800 same kind of wording well the woman would desire her husband it doesn't mean she would just have 0.96

00:26:37.480 this romantic inclination of you know i just desire to spend quality time with my husband

00:26:42.100 that's no it's saying your desire will be to rule your husband and yet the opposite will be true he 1.00

00:26:47.720 will rule over you and and so then the the feminist says see there it is right there the curse of sin

00:26:53.760 is uh male headship it's uh patriarchy no the curse is not that the man would rule over the

00:26:59.620 woman his wife uh but that the wife would have this sinful desire to usurp the natural order

00:27:05.760 and rule over her husband so the curse is not patriarchy the curse is feminism well same kind

00:27:10.620 of thing pan out just a little bit further with genesis 11 guys will look at the tower of babel

00:27:16.200 and they'll say see that's the curse the curse is because of sin and the way that they were you know

00:27:20.840 their pride trying to make a name for themselves you know to not be scattered over the face of the

00:27:24.940 earth because of that because of their pride thinking they could build a tower a structure

00:27:29.240 to the heavens god came down confused their languages and he did that as a punishment and so

00:27:34.420 therefore different uh languages that ultimately produced a spreading out in different cultures and

00:27:40.000 different ethnicities and different nationalities. This is the curse, not the design. Whereas I would

00:27:46.000 say, no, no, no, no. Was it a judgment for their sin? Yes. But their sin wasn't just pride.

00:27:52.400 They specifically say, not just we're trying to make a name for ourself or ascend to heaven,

00:27:56.500 trying to achieve equality with God, but they furthermore say the people congregated at Babel,

00:28:02.280 they further say, let us do this, make a name for ourself and ascend to heaven so that we will not

00:28:08.420 be scattered over the face of the earth, which is a direct rebellion to the very cultural mandate

00:28:13.840 given in the very beginning of humankind, which is to be fruitful and to multiply and to subdue

00:28:20.680 the earth. Part of what God had commanded is that we spread out and that we subdue the whole earth,

00:28:26.740 us and our posterity, in fruitfulness and in dominion, this dominion mandate included in

00:28:34.380 that, baked into the pie of the dominion mandate, which is the original command that God gives

00:28:39.620 before sin even enters the world. In a prelapsarian world, God tells us to subdue the whole world,

00:28:45.640 which includes necessarily spreading out. And here we have in Genesis 11, guys who are saying,

00:28:51.560 we don't want to obey God. We don't want to spread out. We want to stay congregated. And so,

00:28:57.100 is God judging them for their sin of pride, saying we're going to make a name for ourselves? Yes.

00:29:01.720 And in one foul swoop, I would argue simultaneously, God is judging the sin of pride, but also

00:29:07.840 there's a mercy, a deep mercy in this judgment.

00:29:11.700 He is also working in using his judgment as a catalyst to get the people at Babel back 0.96

00:29:20.040 on the rails, back on track with the original dominion mandate much faster than they would 0.76

00:29:26.220 have naturally.

00:29:26.920 He's saying, okay, so you have chosen to directly rebel against what I told you to do, to fill the whole earth, to spread out.

00:29:34.700 Instead of just wiping you out, which I would be perfectly within my rights to do.

00:29:39.420 Which he's done before.

00:29:40.360 Which he's done before.

00:29:41.120 I'm actually going to judge you, but with a merciful judgment that includes in the judgment,

00:29:47.660 the punishment is the very thing that's going to expedite you getting back on track and fulfilling

00:29:55.400 my original command to spread out over the face of the earth and subdue it by confusing your 1.00

00:30:01.320 languages. So my point is, and if that wasn't enough, we have the book of Acts that says, 0.99

00:30:06.280 God sets nations, their borders and their times. So nations are God's idea. This isn't a bad thing.

00:30:13.080 So people, just like the feminist says, well, the curse is patriarchy. No, the curse is hating, 1.00

00:30:19.100 that the woman would hate patriarchy in her sinful flesh, if not redeemed and sanctified. And so too

00:30:24.380 with nations. Well, the curse at Babel, the Tower of Babel is different people and nations. And 0.93

00:30:30.200 you know, and therefore a one world order would be, you know, the undoing, the redemptive, you

00:30:35.380 know, element of that. No, no. The curse was actually, the root of sin was not wanting

00:30:42.580 distinctives, not wanting unique nations, not wanting to spread out and trying to make a name

00:30:46.620 for themselves by congregating so that they would not be spread out over the face of the earth.

00:30:50.800 And God's judgment at Babel contained within it also a mercy to get mankind back on track. 0.51

00:30:58.040 So nations are God's idea, just like patriarchy is God's idea. And that's something that I think that the, you know, the squishy evangelical church, even those who are, you know, somewhat, you know, moderately conservative, they've completely missed.

00:31:11.260 Oh, yeah, absolutely. That is the important thing to understand. And what globalist multiculturalism is, is fundamentally Babelic. It is a recreation of the Tower of Babel and saying that, no, we are going to congregate all the world together and we're going to make a name for ourselves.

00:31:32.880 We are going to do things our way, not God's way, and rule the planet. That's what globalism ultimately is. And it destroys the distinctiveness of peoples and their particular ways of life and creates this monoculture. That's the other horrible thing about it.

00:31:53.260 it creates this monoculture that, that, um,

00:31:56.660 runs roughshod over all the particular ways of life and cultures, um,

00:32:01.000 that it brings in together, it destroys them. And,

00:32:04.380 and then creates this like facts. It was not even like,

00:32:06.920 it's like anti-culture almost. Right. I mean, when I talk about like in my book,

00:32:11.660 you know, trash world and the, um,

00:32:15.560 the monoculture that you find there of like Marvel movies and, 0.83

00:32:19.220 and star Wars movies and, and, and things like that.

00:32:22.740 and just that's all that people have and for the record we're we're you know because somebody might

00:32:26.720 say well wait a second you just said that steven wolf was arguing for monoculture just just for

00:32:30.920 the listener monoculture within one particular nation aka good uh but monoculture uh among all

00:32:38.380 the nations globally aka bad that that's what we're saying that diversity actually is a good

00:32:44.780 thing uh but the idea that um like i don't want diversity in my family right i i want my family

00:32:51.340 diversity is not our strength, the web and family strength. Unity is our strength that we're on the

00:32:58.180 same page. And that's what we see even in Ephesians 4. There's a unity, not just a unity of

00:33:04.040 common care, charity towards one another in the midst of disagreement, but there's also,

00:33:08.320 the Bible speaks of a second kind of unity, unity of the faith. I would argue that there's a unity

00:33:13.280 of common care, love, and then there's also a unity of common conviction, knowledge, faith. And so

00:33:20.360 it's not the strength of, for instance, if we applied it to the church, if one local church

00:33:25.660 is boasting of the diversity of theological convictions as their strength, then it's just,

00:33:33.600 guys, you are naive. That is not, like, what's great about our church is, you know, one of our

00:33:37.780 elders is Arminian, and one of our elders is Pelagian, and one of our elders is a Calvinian, 0.55

00:33:42.040 like, guys, that's not a strength. Your church sucks. That, you know, it's just not a good church. 1.00

00:33:47.580 and so we can apply that to the household the family we can apply it to a church and here's

00:33:52.880 the thing these these guys like neil shinvey you know kind of center right moderate you know

00:33:57.280 conservative guys uh in the woke the original you know woke wars 1.0 of 2020 um you know there's

00:34:04.700 they they acknowledged and rightfully so they acknowledged that uh diversity um is god's idea

00:34:11.060 but it's it's god's idea spread out over the whole face of the earth and and that to mandate

00:34:16.160 or esteem as a virtue, diversity of ethnicity in one local church setting is not what the Bible

00:34:23.760 is getting at. So Neil Shenvey was one of the guys who batted that down, this idea of pastors

00:34:29.080 congregating at a pastor's conference and boasting about what percentage of your church is black and

00:34:34.100 what percentage of your church is Hispanic and what percentage of your church is. And so he did 0.97

00:34:38.680 that. Well, all you and I are doing is just saying, hey, Neil, let's put on our big boy pants. You can

00:34:44.340 do this, you know, like same concept that you battled three years ago with the local church

00:34:50.340 setting. Could we apply that to a nation now? So we're not saying diversity, we don't want any

00:34:56.220 diversity over the whole face of the globe, but we're saying in the same way that the universal

00:35:02.560 church is very diverse, but not necessarily a local church, doesn't have to be diverse there.

00:35:07.480 Well, so too, the whole world is very diverse, but within one nation, one national setting,

00:35:14.340 There is no Christian mandate to make every nation ethnically diverse. And I do think you

00:35:22.460 and I would both admit that in the case of American heritage, we admit that America is 0.87

00:35:27.440 different than China. It's different than Japan. From our founding, America was going to have 0.89

00:35:33.540 more ethnic diversity than other nations. And that's fine. But even within that,

00:35:40.080 there's still a hegemony there's still a a dominant um ethnicity and there needs to be

00:35:46.460 a unified mono culture that's what we're arguing for and we can back it up from from a natural

00:35:52.800 affections uh standpoint we can back it up theonomically like that even with israel it's

00:35:57.420 like well israel you know let people come into israel and and gain citizenship yeah uh-huh

00:36:02.480 but they still remained israel but they weren't but they still remained israel and these people

00:36:06.940 were not full citizens with all the rights and privileges of Israel until the third generation.

00:36:13.100 And some nations, as a judgment to them because of things they had done to Israel in the past,

00:36:19.120 because these nations, because of past historic hostility, were particularly incompatible

00:36:24.960 to the Israel project, that some of these nations, as a judgment to them for past sins,

00:36:31.120 if they grafted into Israel covenantally, they wouldn't have full rights and privileges until

00:36:36.120 the 10th generation. So even from a theonomic perspective, we can apply the general equity of

00:36:41.480 law and say, okay, great. We can have mitigated, reasonable, prudent immigration, but even as we 0.68

00:36:49.180 have it, even for those who immigrate, you may not be able to be a full citizenship with rights 0.81

00:36:55.040 to vote in a presidential election until your grandchildren. And that would be perfectly 1.00

00:37:00.560 biblically defensible and i think neil shenvey would would he would seethe and cope a little

00:37:06.060 bit yeah oh yeah because it doesn't fit within the allowable post-war consensus understanding of

00:37:13.360 of of rights of law of citizenship all of these things um that america is this this melting pot

00:37:22.000 where everybody just comes in where america really is just economic zone and and and part of it too

00:37:27.720 is i mean even just looking at the example of israel right there's lots of examples of things

00:37:32.380 that you've you know said just now right look at the problems that israel had right they had all

00:37:38.860 of these canaanites there they're supposed to wipe out right and what did the canaanites do 0.80

00:37:43.020 right they had they had a particular culture and and at the center of the cultists of that culture 0.77

00:37:48.140 was their religion right and that affected israel right right israel uh fell into baal worship

00:37:54.400 because their fathers, generations beforehand, had not obeyed God and eradicated them. 0.79

00:38:01.740 And so they start worshiping Baal. 0.92

00:38:04.340 And you have this minority culture all around that is affecting Israel, right? 1.00

00:38:10.160 And so there was multiculturalism in Israel and it was bad. 1.00

00:38:14.520 It led to their ultimate downfall. 1.00

00:38:17.180 And so you see that.

00:38:18.880 Also, like another biblical example, I preached on, you know, first and second Samuel recently.

00:38:26.680 And like you see when David goes to the Philistines, right?

00:38:30.200 He flees Israel because he's being attacked by Saul.

00:38:34.780 He and his men flee to the Philistines.

00:38:36.700 And he goes to the Philistines, to the Philistine king of Gath. 0.69

00:38:41.380 And he, one, they command him to go raid Israel and he lies to them.

00:38:48.140 He doesn't raid Israel. He goes and raids all of Israel's enemies and brings back the spoil. And they're like, wow, this is great. Good job. And so anyway, he's been faithful deceptively to the Philistines, so much so that Achish, the king of Gath, converts. 0.61

00:39:04.940 He starts, I think anyway, I think it's good, solid enough evidence that he begins speaking oaths in the name of the Lord, which is not a thing a Philistine would do. 0.87

00:39:18.480 You don't just do that because you're being polite. 0.97

00:39:21.820 It's meaningful that he does that.

00:39:25.460 And Achish is so on David's side that when the Philistines are mustered for battle against Israel, he brings David along.

00:39:33.360 and the lords of the philistines are like wait a minute hold on here's this exile from the court 0.75

00:39:38.980 of saul who is here with us and all his men and we when we go to battle with with uh israel he's

00:39:46.440 gonna be loyal to them he's not gonna be loyal to us yeah he's gonna attack us because he wants to 0.72

00:39:51.080 get in good with saul again he wants to be back on saul's good side so he's gonna attack us from

00:39:55.460 behind and so we can't let that happen so you need to send him away and and you look at it and it's

00:40:01.420 like whoa whoa there's like there's an ethnic dimension here to what's going on and understanding

00:40:07.900 of loyalties right um and and so you think of that now in like our context and again just real

00:40:13.240 quick when we say ethnic you've got you you've got to put on your big boy pants and think of

00:40:18.500 older truer uh more more reliable dead guys don't think of yeah don't think of all you know

00:40:25.780 all the lib people from like 1960 when we say ethnic we're saying that includes nationality

00:40:31.920 that includes culture that includes customs traditions loyalties religion theology um all

00:40:37.840 that so so there is like so when we're talking about this whole philistine and david um anytime 0.72

00:40:44.160 that ethnic we've just been ruined we have been so ruined by libtard you know theology and and

00:40:50.700 politics so as as andrew says that you're uh you're probably thinking you know like um that 0.99

00:40:56.020 the philistines were concerned because uh david you know if he held out his arm it would be a

00:41:01.540 different shade of color than the philistines that's not it's it's that is so shallow that's

00:41:07.960 not what we're talking it's we're talking about a whole way of life baked into a particular people

00:41:14.920 and their history and their customs and their religion yeah yeah yeah and so i mean and you

00:41:20.120 see this in america today you have i mean a year or two ago there were a couple um um servicemen

00:41:27.540 in the u.s military who were uh ethnically chinese what i think they were americans like

00:41:32.400 born here american citizens and they were giving secrets right there they were giving secrets to

00:41:39.080 the chinese government and uh and you see this all over the tech industry you have um and just

00:41:45.300 many other industries where you bring in with h1b visas and things like this people you know

00:41:51.900 chinese nationals to come and work in different corporations meanwhile all what are they doing 0.97

00:41:58.240 they're sending the blueprints to different technologies back to china right um and you 0.87

00:42:05.100 And currently you have a totally open border where the Chinese can send in tens of thousands of people in the United States to do whatever. 0.70

00:42:14.800 And meanwhile, our government is like saber rattling against China. 0.50

00:42:18.680 And it makes no sense at all.

00:42:21.680 You have American congressmen sleeping with Chinese spies like Eric Swalwell. 0.55

00:42:25.880 You have all of this.

00:42:26.940 And within the cultural milieu that we have today, this liberal, egalitarian, multicultural, everybody's an American understanding, that just doesn't work because they don't think that way.

00:42:43.940 right they have loyalty to their people right and so they come here and they could be here for

00:42:48.480 several generations even and still have that loyalty right uh and be be sabotaging things

00:42:54.120 and and stealing uh technology and so forth uh for the benefit of their people which is not america

00:42:59.200 uh and then if there was a war there was a war between the u.s and china right oh yeah we're in

00:43:04.920 trouble even ben shapiro has said you know he said like yeah i love america and i am an american

00:43:10.980 citizen, but a lot of, of my, you know, my aim and, and my goals, uh, and being an American

00:43:17.440 citizen and doing, you know, this, this massive conservative media empire here on American soil

00:43:23.320 to American listeners. Um, a lot of my motive in that is to, uh, to garnish among the American

00:43:30.280 people, uh, loyalty and affection for Israel. And what he's saying in that he, you know, he's,

00:43:35.580 he's not hating America necessarily, or what we, at least, you know, maybe not consciously,

00:43:39.560 But he is saying, I have loyalties. And so even my love for America comes with a particular motive. And it's to garnish and to capitalize on my influence in America for my homeland, my truest people, which is not ultimately American, but rather Israel.

00:44:04.580 And Ben Shapiro, I'm not the biggest fan, but I will still admit that Ben Shapiro is more harmless and less malicious and sinister, at least on the face, than some other guys.

00:44:17.260 But it's still – my point is even with some of the conservative examples where some of the guys that we would – guys would categorize and say like, well, he's technically on the right.

00:44:26.760 So even with some of the good guys, there's still this principle.

00:44:30.620 And the reason why, here's the point, this principle is baked into the pie of humanity, not in the theological category.

00:44:37.740 I don't believe it would fall into the theological category of total depravity.

00:44:41.500 Well, it's baked into the human pie because we're all sinners, and therefore, you know, one of those sins is racism.

00:44:46.720 No, I think it's baked into the pie based off of nature, not fallenness, not total depravity, not sin.

00:44:55.780 but this is actually God's original natural design that there would be certain loyalties

00:45:03.540 that were not just a citizen of the world. You can say that, but no one is a citizen of the world.

00:45:09.020 You press them hard enough. And at the end of the day, they're going to say,

00:45:12.660 these are my people, whoever they are, but these are my people. Here's where my loyalty lies.

00:45:18.720 And a lot of that is determined not by new affiliations that were made last Thursday, but a lot of that is determined.

00:45:29.500 Loyalties, fidelity is determined from birth.

00:45:32.280 It's natural.

00:45:33.780 Those are natural ties.

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00:47:18.260 Also, see the show notes below.

00:47:21.260 Yeah, absolutely.

00:47:22.280 We've got like two minutes, Andrew, here at the very end, but I thought maybe we could

00:47:26.020 talk about tactics and methodology for just a moment in regards to the left.

00:47:30.860 Part of the reason I feel like the left in a political sense, in terms of their practical

00:47:35.280 strategy, part of the reason they always win is one, the side that wants to win is always going

00:47:39.620 to beat the side that just wants to be left alone, right? I mean, those guys want it. They want it.

00:47:44.080 But beyond that, also the way, you know, if you think of a chessboard, the way that the left uses

00:47:48.700 all their pieces, they don't disparage and despise their pawns. They recognize, well, a pawn, you

00:47:55.380 know, it's not as effective. We're not going to, you know, fall on our sword to, you know, to save

00:48:01.040 the life of a pawn, if I'm over here and I'm a bishop or a rook or whatever, but we still

00:48:06.820 recognize that a pawn is a playing piece on the board and it's a net win. And so what I'm

00:48:12.500 describing, this chess example, is I'm thinking of the left uses its radicals. So there are far

00:48:20.800 left guys, pawns on the chess board that may not be as calculated or as influential as a bishop or

00:48:26.740 a queen. But they recognize that, well, but the pawns are still on our side of the chessboard.

00:48:31.680 There are pawns. And we're not going to take our pawns and line them up and shoot them in the face. 0.98

00:48:38.120 But the right does. The right absolutely does. And so my point is this, and I'm trying to not

00:48:44.400 provide a Jesus juke, but in a pastoral sense, I think there's two things. Because I think guys

00:48:51.640 like Neil Shenvey, they're like, well, if you guys, you know, you guys are making this defense

00:48:55.820 and shoring up your position and, you know, but if you really believe that, if you really weren't

00:49:00.660 racist, then you would, you would be coming out of the woodwork on Twitter, you know, every 15

00:49:06.480 minutes, you know, and, and denouncing. Why didn't you, I demand you denounce so-and-so and denounce

00:49:12.120 so-and-so. And my position is this, as a pastor, I'm playing with two hats, two roles. Pastorally,

00:49:18.440 spiritually, there really is such a thing as objective sin. Sin threatens and endangers the

00:49:24.700 soul. And I want to see radicals on the right go to heaven, right? And when I'm putting my eternal

00:49:30.920 thinking cap on and my pastoral lenses. And so I will have certain conversations if I'm concerned

00:49:38.580 for a brother in Christ, his soul. And I think, no, man, I see the strategy here,

00:49:43.780 but there are certain tactics that are just not afforded to us as Christians because we do have

00:49:48.820 a standard. I'm concerned about your soul. Are you becoming obsessive about this? How's your wife?

00:49:53.940 How's your kids?

00:49:54.640 How's your family?

00:49:55.960 Why don't you touch grass for a couple of weeks?

00:49:58.940 So I think that's passive.

00:50:00.220 But I feel like I can do that and do it privately, spiritually, pastorally, prayerfully, theologically.

00:50:08.640 And yet I can also, we got to think in categories.

00:50:11.520 I can also put my political hat on.

00:50:13.480 And I'm not a politician, so this is not my primary role.

00:50:16.200 But I can think politically and say, okay, but in the public sphere, no, I'm not going to shoot this pawn in the face.

00:50:23.840 um i think he's a little radical here i don't agree with him but i'm not going to spend my

00:50:30.020 capital in a political tactical sense uh going around and uh and and shooting every guy that i

00:50:37.740 think is a radical on the right the left part of the reason they win is because they don't shoot

00:50:42.340 their own they use their radicals right they play like good cop bad cop so you heard what so-and-so

00:50:47.540 said and that's pretty intense you know but i'm reasonable i just want you know i just want to

00:50:51.340 trans some kids, not all kids. That's how the left works. And the right, part of the reason I think

00:50:59.020 the right always loses is one, because we don't really want to win and we just want to be left

00:51:03.280 alone. And two, part of the reason the right loses is because the right is self-sabotaging.

00:51:11.560 We eat our own. And part of the reason why is it's one thing to be principled. It's another

00:51:16.760 to be um ideologues the the right is too idealistic um and and i think even church guys

00:51:24.340 on the right pastors good pastors myself included um we have we have become so idealistic it's like

00:51:30.680 for like because we were we were we were rightfully concerned about mega churches and and

00:51:35.380 smoke machines and and laser license and and so we we did this all-out war on pragmatism you

00:51:40.940 remember that like pragmatism is always bad and and now i'm kind of i'm a little older and and

00:51:46.280 by God's grace, I think, a little wiser. And I'm like, you know what? Yes, I'm a regular

00:51:51.640 principle worship guy. I want simple worship. I want hymns and psalms and preaching of the word,

00:51:56.960 word and sacrament and liturgy and these. That's my view of the Lord's day, the church gathered

00:52:02.220 together. But an all out war against pragmatism in every single realm of life and in the political

00:52:07.740 realm, that probably wasn't a really good idea. What do you think? Yeah, I think what you're

00:52:13.020 striking on is exactly right in the sense that in terms of political conflict,

00:52:23.200 you see how the left operates. They have a vanguard on the far left that is never satisfied

00:52:31.420 with anything other than ultimate victory. And I mean, just look at the issue of gay marriage, 0.95

00:52:38.860 for example, right? They had these people pushing it for decades, right? Decades pushing for gay

00:52:46.240 marriage. And the mainstream left, like as far back as 2008, right? Barack Obama gets elected 0.96

00:52:54.960 president saying, I'm totally against gay marriage. And they all supported him, right? The 1.00

00:52:59.580 vanguard of the left all supported him because they knew right behind closed doors, he didn't

00:53:04.580 actually believe that and um they pushed it and pushed it and then all of a sudden um he gets

00:53:10.820 his supreme court justices and they legalize gay marriage through judicial activism and they get

00:53:16.520 what they want and you can look at any other cultural issue or any other political issue

00:53:20.520 and it's the same strategy you have you have the far left bushing and the the center left

00:53:26.960 kind of uh practicing this you know selective obliviousness to them right they never denounce

00:53:33.060 them ever whereas on the right what you have is the mainstream right um jumps whenever the left

00:53:39.140 says um says to and denounces anyone to their right uh instinctively and and you also have

00:53:46.640 the vanguard on the right that's constantly attacking the mainstream um and it's it's

00:53:52.100 totally ineffective and so you you have like so for instance on the abortion issue right you have

00:53:57.420 a vanguard there which is you know the abolitionists where they're like no we are not satisfied with

00:54:03.040 anything other than total abolition of abortion and, and, and, and God bless them, right? This

00:54:07.700 is, they're great. And they're not satisfied with a heartbeat bill or anything like that. They want

00:54:13.140 the whole kit and caboodle, right? And so they're pushing the right and they, they, they get

00:54:19.760 attacked, right? The mainstream pro-life groups attack them and, and, and all these different

00:54:24.020 ways attack what they're doing. And they're pushing though, right? The, the, um, political

00:54:29.940 right, the mainstream right, further and further toward their goal. And on these things as well,

00:54:36.240 you look at issues of culture and multiculturalism and so forth. The only group that isn't allowed 1.00

00:54:43.960 to defend itself or pursue its own group interests are heritage Americans. And you see one guy show 0.86

00:54:52.700 up and start to defend their interests as a group. And he wins the presidency. And in 2020 gets more

00:55:01.520 votes than any Republican candidate has ever gotten before. Close to 80 million people supported him.

00:55:08.820 And so that group of 80 million people for their entire lifetimes, they've never been allowed to

00:55:13.320 think of themselves as a people, as a particular people with a particular culture, a particular

00:55:17.460 heritage. They're told that those things are bad. You're a citizen of the world. Everybody is your

00:55:21.960 neighbor and all 8 billion people on planet earth and what you have happening is uh because of people

00:55:30.220 further to the right pushing and pushing and pushing this vanguard on the right pushing these

00:55:34.560 things these ideas uh you have this this understanding of american identity of american

00:55:40.220 particularness and uniqueness right real american culture and real american history and heritage as

00:55:46.280 as our own beginning to coalesce once again. And they're terrified of this, right? They're

00:55:52.720 terrified of Americans pursuing the interests of Americans as Americans. They're terrified of

00:55:59.320 those things because they've been subdued for half a century. And, and that actually, I think

00:56:04.360 is very encouraging, right? For American people to say, Hey, we don't want a totally open border.

00:56:08.660 This is actually really bad. It brings in crime and drugs and all sorts of horrible things.

00:56:13.700 We want America for Americans, right?

00:56:16.680 Can we have that?

00:56:18.640 And so people like Neil, of course, don't like that, right?

00:56:22.880 They want everybody to come to America because America is nice, right?

00:56:27.400 The country that our great, great, great grandfathers built is still a great place and still very, I mean, it's still on top of the world, right?

00:56:38.960 It's still this place where anybody can have a very good life.

00:56:43.560 And so they want, you know, they want us to import, you know, a million or millions of people from India, right?

00:56:52.100 And they are from China or from Central America, right?

00:56:57.500 And Americans say, no, no, we want America to be for Americans. 0.96

00:57:01.660 And people are beginning to see that that's not a bad thing.

00:57:05.060 You're not an evil racist if you want America for Americans.

00:57:08.300 Amen.

00:57:08.380 Yeah. Yeah. It really is direct disobedience, rebellion to the fifth commandment. I remember

00:57:12.660 when that, that hit me like a ton of bricks where, you know, I started, uh, part of it was,

00:57:17.000 you know, there was a progression here, theological progression. And then that began to apply to

00:57:20.960 culture and to politics and these things. And a big piece of it for me was this post-millennial

00:57:26.120 idea. And I don't think you have to be post-millennial to, to have this idea, but, um,

00:57:30.540 I, you know, it could be all millennialism or even historic pre-millennialism, but breaking out

00:57:35.140 of the Disby, you know, pre-mill secret rapture, and it's going to happen next week, right? Because

00:57:42.020 that's what I think has kept a lot of kind of normie evangelicals from even having to think

00:57:48.780 about these things, because you really don't have to think about the future if there is no future,

00:57:52.480 right? If Jesus is coming back next week, then I don't really need to think about my posterity.

00:57:56.980 And so when I broke out, so for me, it was eschatology. And again, it doesn't have to be

00:58:01.480 post-mill, for me it was, but really any of the major three eschatological positions, just not

00:58:07.320 the one that's lousy, the one that shouldn't even be one of the positions, aka dispensational

00:58:13.240 premillennialism. But if you're historic pre-mill or if you're all-mill or you're post-mill

00:58:18.160 in any of those categories of eschatology, study of the end times, your view of the future,

00:58:23.300 then all those allow for and even lean towards the likelihood of many more generations to come

00:58:31.620 before the final end of the world, Jesus' final physical return. So now you have to start to think

00:58:37.200 about your grandchildren. You have to start to think about your great-grandchildren. So that was

00:58:41.020 step one. And then once I was thinking about my posterity, future generations, that's when it hit

00:58:46.220 me. I thought, man, I am working really, really hard. I could just pastor a church, but I'm doing

00:58:51.060 other things and not just through media and right response and these things. It's not just to reach

00:58:57.700 more people with the gospel and sound doctrine for a kingdom mentality. But I'm doing it for

00:59:04.200 a kingdom mentality, but I'm also doing it for a web and household mentality, which is part of the

00:59:08.720 kingdom for the record. But I'm trying to, because at this point, it's not just right response and

00:59:15.120 Covenant Bible Church in Central Texas, but in addition to all that, me and some friends,

00:59:19.500 we're starting a soap company well why why that if it's just influencing people theologically for

00:59:24.700 the kingdom uh well i'm trying to start a soap company one because people need good soap um two

00:59:30.040 because a lot of soap companies are you know they're they're act blue pro planned parent

00:59:35.040 you know uh but three um i would like to start a soap company to make more money and here it is

00:59:41.880 for who for my kids my grandkids my great grandkids and i was thinking about that i was

00:59:48.960 thinking if, if I was, you know, standing up in heaven, leaning over the rail, the proverbial

00:59:53.160 rail of heaven, looking down at my great grandchildren. And, uh, let's say I build a

00:59:57.800 soap empire, you know, which I probably won't, but let's say I build a soap empire, like, uh,

01:00:02.320 like Charles Haywood, the shampoo. Yeah, exactly. And it's worth millions of dollars. And I look

01:00:06.740 down, I see my grandkids and my grandkids bust like a, uh, like the, the CEO of Hobby Lobby.

01:00:11.980 And they decide to, uh, to give the, uh, the entire board and the entire company,

01:00:16.660 soap company over to you know like the salvation army or some charity and and then they give all

01:00:22.540 the money you know write a check and give all the money to uh orphanages in uganda well five years

01:00:28.880 ago i probably would have thought that that's noble right i mean david platt he would have

01:00:32.440 loved that you know that's so great yeah yeah it's right john piper he would love that uh but

01:00:36.840 you know what i would be i would be deeply personally hurt by that now i know technically

01:00:42.380 i probably wouldn't be hurt because i'd be in heaven and he wipes away every tear you but you

01:00:46.020 get my point. I would not like that. I would not support that. You know why? Because in addition

01:00:51.420 to pastoring in a church, in addition to doing right response ministries, in addition to being

01:00:55.300 a husband and being a father, I stayed up late multiple nights and did this and did that to

01:01:00.620 build this soap company, and I didn't do it for strangers. Not because I hate strangers. It's not

01:01:05.900 about that. But I didn't do it for strangers. I did it for my posterity, my kids. And then when

01:01:12.020 you apply that to a nation and particularly our nation, when you think about American history,

01:01:18.020 George Washington, these guys, the founders, they didn't ride into battle and give their lives,

01:01:25.620 their blood, their sweat, and their tears for people in India. They did it for their kids

01:01:31.260 and grandkids and great grandkids. And so it really is a direct rebellion to the fifth

01:01:38.900 commandment to god first and foremost a sin again all sin is first vertical against god

01:01:44.360 but then also the horizontal element of sin against our fellow man it's a sin against our

01:01:49.400 fathers to say you did this for us you did it for us because you loved us and we would like to spit

01:01:57.000 on your grave and give it all away yeah it's just it is morally wrong we don't get to make that

01:02:03.700 choice that's the thing it's actually arrogance it's actually arrogance to to come into a particular

01:02:08.760 time in history with an incredible inheritance and wealth that's been provided for us at the cost

01:02:14.960 of our father's lives, and to be born on third base, but to pretend in delusion that you hit

01:02:22.380 a triple and say, it's mine, and I get to choose what to do with it, and I choose to give it away.

01:02:27.500 No, it's not actually yours. It's yours in one sense, but it's actually your father's. They're

01:02:32.800 the ones who sweat and bled for it. And they did it for you to steward and to pass on to your

01:02:40.560 children and your children's children. They didn't do it for the world. They did it for their

01:02:46.500 posterity. And it is dishonoring. It is disrespectful. And it is a breach of the

01:02:56.440 fifth commandment and a sin against god not to have some immigration and some generosity and some

01:03:05.400 charity all this within prudence uh but to to be suicidal give it all and throw it all away

01:03:12.400 is actually uh it's not virtuous it's not noble it's sin yeah just look at i mean it's funny

01:03:19.480 Because the kind of squishy post-war consensus people on the right who are like, oh, we just need to go back to the Constitution, people would hear, like Michael O'Fallon, right, would hear that, what you just said, and lose their minds, right?

01:03:37.660 But then you think about, look at the preamble to the U.S. Constitution, right?

01:03:41.680 For us and our posterity, right?

01:03:45.000 That's why we've created this country, this government.

01:03:47.660 for us and for our posterity right that that was baked into the cake from the very get-go

01:03:53.160 and for us to say actually um the equity that we all have in in this thing called america

01:04:00.660 we're just gonna we're gonna dilute it and give it to the whole world yeah right uh that is that

01:04:06.380 just that that is it's it's evil right it's what it is it's not just foolish it's it's uh immoral 0.97

01:04:13.720 it's not just it's not just foolish or uh ignorant it is it is uh it's it's like what 0.96

01:04:19.940 jesus said to the to the pharisees where they they tell a young man despite his parents right 0.96

01:04:25.820 you can donate you can donate all your money to the temple yeah the money they gave you to support

01:04:30.500 them in their old age you can give it to the temple despite them right to give you know two

01:04:34.980 middle fingers to your parents right and leave them in poverty yeah yeah you're violating the

01:04:40.560 fifth commandment in doing that even though you look really holy you gave all your money to the

01:04:44.420 temple look at what a righteous guy right you look really holy when you say all these poor people and

01:04:48.960 and all these parts of the country parts of the world that that it's so it's so bad over there 1.00

01:04:55.300 we need to just bring them to america all the refugees refugees welcome bring them all here 0.98

01:04:59.600 right you look really holy saying those things but then you destroy the the inheritance that 1.00

01:05:05.200 you've been given despite your ancestors and despite uh the the people in your own country

01:05:10.740 you don't like right there you have jesus himself calling out the pharisees with a jesus juke say

01:05:17.360 hey yeah i'm jesus don't do a jesus juke you can't do a jesus support your mom and dad you're not

01:05:22.680 that holy um all right uh tell us real quick uh how people can follow you cj things that are going

01:05:27.920 on do it real quick and we'll uh go ahead and uh conclude yeah so um you can uh find me on twitter

01:05:34.440 and on gab at boniface option uh and you can find uh cj angles in my podcast if you read the article

01:05:41.800 that we referenced from neil i don't know if joel's going to put it in the notes here but

01:05:44.720 um cj features prominently in that we didn't even get to address everything that that is said i mean

01:05:50.720 so much of it is kind of silly but i know cj and i are going to talk about it in our podcast

01:05:55.900 contramundum um on youtube and uh substack uh you can find us there um and so we're going to talk

01:06:03.380 about this a little bit more in depth and kind of take it apart piece by piece but uh yeah we we

01:06:08.240 record every week we didn't last week because we were both in ogden listening to joel's awesome

01:06:12.520 talk thanks uh it was and if you if you people haven't seen that uh i think they're going to

01:06:18.340 release it at some point but i think the ogden guys they just pay the ogden guys the money pay

01:06:23.320 the dane guilds and get joel's talk uh but uh it was it was phenomenal i i came away my my wife

01:06:29.440 text to me and said edra crying crying it's so good i showed joel that text too so i'm not just

01:06:35.360 flattering that was super encouraging well it's because it's like you got to know your place you

01:06:40.080 know so it's like all right steven wolf is one of the speakers uh so i'm i'm not going to get up

01:06:45.060 there for an hour and say i'm going to provide for you a very academic and intellectual like

01:06:50.320 like no no steve steve can handle that i'm gonna get up there and do what i do i'm gonna rally the

01:06:55.560 troops and i'm going to take all this stuff that that steven some of these higher ideas boil it

01:07:01.460 down to to my own blue collar sensibilities and you know level of thinking and then pitch it to

01:07:07.000 the masses in a very practical you know applicable kind of way uh so by the way xyz what that means

01:07:13.700 on the ground for you right now is blank it's like oh yeah oh okay yeah and i listened to it

01:07:20.280 i was ready to run through a wall amen so uh it was great it was great so yeah you can you go

01:07:25.620 sorry i was just gonna plug contramundum one more time yeah go for it go for it but yeah uh listen

01:07:30.240 to that we'll we'll record we record usually every friday and you can find us there we have a long

01:07:34.700 back catalog of stuff if you want to see what we're all about but um yeah uh please please

01:07:39.520 listen and subscribe too if you like right response you'll like us too i'm subscribed

01:07:44.580 I'm a fan.

01:07:45.540 Consumlundum.

01:07:46.420 Check it out.

01:07:47.660 And one of these days I need to invite myself onto your show, whether you would like it

01:07:53.520 or not.

01:07:53.960 I'll just insert myself.

01:07:55.200 No, we want to.

01:07:56.220 We're like, you know, the whole time we're like, Joel's such a big deal.

01:07:59.200 You know, he's got 100,000 subs.

01:08:01.900 I don't know if we could get him.

01:08:03.340 I don't know.

01:08:04.020 I think you can.

01:08:05.240 All right.

01:08:06.100 Well, thank you, Andrew.

01:08:07.120 God bless.

01:08:08.140 Keep doing what you're doing.

01:08:09.800 Thank you.

01:08:10.440 Thank you, everyone.

01:08:10.920 All right.

01:08:11.280 Thanks to the listener.

01:08:12.060 Thanks for tuning in and we'll see you again soon.

The NXR Podcast - June 17, 2024

THE INTERVIEW - The Fake Sin of ＂Raaaycism＂ w Andrew Isker

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