The NXR Podcast - THE INTERVIEW - The Fifth Commandment with Eric Conn

00:00:00.000 right response ministries 2025 conference is a go this is three days full jam-packed conference

00:00:11.020 with eight main sessions three to four hour and a half long panels and an all-star super based

00:00:17.320 lineup of speakers 15 speakers in all who are they steve dace jeff durbin oran mcintyre steven

00:00:24.760 Wolf, Brian Sauve, Andrew Isker, John Harris, Eric Kahn, Aidy Robles, Dan Burkholder, the Christian

00:00:32.280 Prince himself, Dusty Devers, Ben Garrett, David Reese, and yours truly, Pastor Joel Webin. Again,

00:00:39.480 this is April 3rd, 4th, and 5th, 2025, and the early registration is open right now. This is

00:00:47.060 the longest conference with the most speakers we've ever offered, and yet it is our all-time

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00:01:00.260 rightresponseconference.com. Again, that is rightresponseconference.com to register right

00:01:07.500 now because the early registration will not last long. Honor thy father and mother. The fifth

00:01:15.000 commandment. I believe one of the most difficult commandments for young people today to seek to

00:01:21.020 obey. Why? Well, because young people in every generation have struggled with some kind of

00:01:27.080 streak of rebellion, but also because our fathers and mothers, in the immediate sense, namely the

00:01:33.560 boomer generation, has failed immensely. They have, in many ways, sold Gen X and millennials

00:01:41.440 down the river. So, in today's episode of Theology Applied, I'll be joined with Eric Kahn,

00:01:48.000 the host of the Hard Man podcast, to discuss the Fifth Commandment, the particular ways that 0.87

00:01:53.060 boomers have failed, and the challenges that we face to change the fabric of our nation,

00:01:58.840 to get things on track, and to honor our father and mother as we seek to also recognize the 1.00

00:02:04.760 mistakes they've made along the way. I'm Pastor Joel Webin. This is Theology Applied with Right

00:02:10.500 Response Ministries. Tune in now. Applying God's Word to every aspect of life. This is Theology

00:02:17.640 apply. Eric, thanks for coming on. Thanks for having me once again, Joel. It's a pleasure to

00:02:26.240 be here. Absolutely. Well, today, you and I, we were talking offline, preparing a little bit,

00:02:30.940 and what we want to talk about is the fifth commandment, the biblical imperative that we

00:02:35.420 should honor our fathers and our mothers, which seems to be a bit difficult in our generation.

00:02:41.300 I have no doubt that it has always been difficult. There's always an inclination,

00:02:45.120 a temptation because of sin, to dishonor those who come before us. But I've talked to a lot of

00:02:51.660 young men, and a lot of young men today are angry. And you can make an argument that that's just the

00:02:57.400 nature of young men. Young men of every generation have been angry and frustrated and zealous about

00:03:01.660 something, zeal without wisdom. But it seems as though the anger that a lot of young men have

00:03:07.100 today is a justifiable anger. It seems as though they're frustrated because in some ways they

00:03:12.860 really have been ripped off. They've been robbed by the prior generation. They've been robbed of

00:03:20.100 opportunity. They've been, there's some real difficulties. And so you and I were talking

00:03:24.720 about this. I've got a lot of thoughts, but before I go any further, what do you think about this

00:03:29.480 idea of young people today, especially young men being frustrated and struggling to honor their

00:03:35.340 father? Yeah. I mean, I completely agree with it. I think what's interesting, a lot of times it gets

00:03:40.260 painted as like these young men are like 15 you know or 18 year olds um but a lot of times it's

00:03:45.600 it's guys like you and me you know close to 40 somewhere in that ballpark um even right below

00:03:50.360 the boomers so some some of the guys who will have the complaints are in their 50s 0.69

00:03:54.220 but i think generally what you're seeing is like there's been a whole century controlled by boomers

00:03:59.560 it was a huge uh segment of the population because of you know being fruitful after world war ii

00:04:05.360 but they held power for the longest amount of time.

00:04:08.880 Many of them are still in power.

00:04:11.020 And so I think what's happened

00:04:12.480 is a lot of people are starting to recognize and say,

00:04:14.780 okay, here's the world they built. 0.99

00:04:16.800 It really sucks. 0.93

00:04:18.660 And we're getting the shaft on a number of things, 0.99

00:04:22.540 including inflation, the economy's bad.

00:04:25.360 A lot of the decisions that were made

00:04:26.820 in the 70s and 80s and 90s,

00:04:29.160 it was functionally to pass the debt burden on to us.

00:04:33.720 So we're getting to realize those things right now. 2008 was another example of that. These companies are too great to fail. And so we're going to give the shaft again to future generations. And so in 2030 and afterwards is when people are going to start really having to pay for those financial decisions.

00:04:52.600 I also think a big part of it is a book I read recently, but R.R. Reno's book, Return of the Strong Gods, really helping people understand what is the post-World War II consensus.

00:05:04.860 What's this world that we live in after World War II?

00:05:09.200 We've been in countless wars.

00:05:11.360 We have been engaged in this race to become a globalist type state.

00:05:18.340 And I think because of that, so many people are feeling like, and they're right, that this is not the world that we signed up for or want to live in.

00:05:27.580 And so that other generation is sunsetting.

00:05:30.340 And so now I think you're seeing a lot of the rift and the power struggle between these groups as that transition has failed to happen.

00:05:40.860 And the imperative for fathers as it pertains to their posterity is that they would leave to them more than what they had.

00:05:50.300 That they would do everything they can with what God's sovereignly chosen to give to them and multiply it.

00:05:55.280 And so they'd be fruitful, multiply in terms of their offspring, but also multiplying their

00:05:59.780 influence, their wealth, their resources, their land, their business, their this, their

00:06:05.160 that.

00:06:06.740 I mean, that's my goal is to not just multiply my name in terms of my offspring and having

00:06:12.420 multiple children, but I want my children to have multiple things.

00:06:17.160 And not because I'm a materialist, not because the world is just stuff, not because Darwin

00:06:21.160 was right, not because of the prosperity gospel, but because I want to honor God. I want to live

00:06:26.960 a glorious life and I want my children to live a more glorious life than I did. And that includes

00:06:32.700 in terms of what they have, their influence, their wealth, what they're able to steward for

00:06:37.140 the kingdom of God, not just their own personal comfort. I want to leave lots of children, but I

00:06:41.540 want to leave my lots of children with lots of things. I want to give them an inheritance. Proverbs

00:06:46.900 says explicitly that a good man leaves an inheritance not only for his children, but

00:06:53.140 his children's children. So a wise and good man is thinking about the financial well-being of his

00:06:58.920 grandchildren, not just his children, but his grandchildren. And some people would, you know,

00:07:03.880 be, you know, pietistic and they would kind of try to, you know, take that square peg and put it

00:07:09.300 in the gospel-centered circle hole, you know, and like, well, it's a spiritual inheritance. And I

00:07:13.720 would say it can never be anything less. A Christian man, a good man can leave nothing

00:07:17.740 less than a spiritual inheritance, a gospel inheritance, but I would eat my hat if God

00:07:23.520 is speaking of something that doesn't include more. I think God is speaking of, yeah, give

00:07:28.620 them the gospel, give them Jesus, catechize them, raise them in the fear and nurture of

00:07:34.760 the Lord and leave them stuff. If a man who, I mean, the Bible talks about this. You're

00:07:42.940 worse than an unbeliever. You've denied the faith if you don't offer gospel-centered platitudes to 1.00

00:07:49.860 your household. No, if you don't clothe them and feed them and provide, physically provide.

00:07:55.060 And I think this inheritance, sure, it's a spiritual inheritance, but it's also a physical

00:07:58.780 inheritance. It's monetary. And so you look at generations and it's like, you want to be fruitful.

00:08:05.060 The greatest generation was a fruitful generation, but they didn't just create lots of boomers,

00:08:09.140 lots of children, but they gave their children the world on a silver platter. Boomers, it's not 0.80

00:08:14.240 just that there were a lot of boomers. If it was just a lot of boomers, but they came into a world 1.00

00:08:18.060 that didn't have anything, then maybe I'd have some sympathy. But it seems like, and you correct 1.00

00:08:23.580 me if I'm wrong, but it seems like the boomers is a large, numerically large generation, but also

00:08:29.060 had unparalleled resources and opportunity. And instead of multiplying it even more,

00:08:38.500 it seems like a swarm of locusts ate it up and they just bit us the bill. And we're all going

00:08:48.140 to have to pay for it. I feel like some people are upset for some reasons.

00:08:53.380 I think in many ways you could say something like the prodigal generation. You took a lot of wealth,

00:08:58.780 you took the inheritance you were given

00:09:00.060 and you went and you squandered it.

00:09:02.880 Helen Andrews in her book on the boomers,

00:09:04.640 we were talking about this before,

00:09:06.560 but yeah, one of the things

00:09:08.200 that's really interesting about that

00:09:09.640 is she does some biopics on people like Steve Jobs.

00:09:14.180 And they talk about, oh, the boomers were all about,

00:09:16.140 you know, bringing work to America.

00:09:18.260 Steve Jobs pushed all the globalist work

00:09:20.760 over to China for the iPhone.

00:09:23.440 It was about outsourcing

00:09:25.360 and sort of like an old style British colonialism

00:09:27.780 where we're not impacted by tariffs.

00:09:31.300 Extremely bad for American workers,

00:09:33.440 but great for the company. 0.96

00:09:35.800 I think somebody even said

00:09:36.920 if the iPhone had been made in America,

00:09:39.480 it would have cost Apple an extra $100.

00:09:42.480 Instead, they chose to outsource it to China.

00:09:45.800 And again, it was part of this globalist push.

00:09:47.580 You look at what they did to their employees.

00:09:49.060 They were terrible to Apple employees.

00:09:51.180 We need you to work 90 hours a week 0.92

00:09:52.840 and not have a life.

00:09:53.800 And Steve Jobs himself was a terrible father,

00:09:56.200 a terrible husband.

00:09:56.960 and kind of a terrible person in many ways. 0.71

00:10:01.160 And Helen says, that's kind of the quintessential 1.00

00:10:03.380 picture of what the boomers were.

00:10:06.380 They got a lot. 0.88

00:10:07.840 Sometimes they did a lot.

00:10:09.060 Sometimes it wasn't all that good.

00:10:11.200 Back to your original kind of analogy, though.

00:10:13.920 I think what's happening for a lot of people,

00:10:16.020 this is kind of a parallel with the church.

00:10:17.740 We're looking at the church like young, restless, and reformed

00:10:20.600 is what you and I grew up with.

00:10:22.060 And we're looking back and we're saying, wait a minute.

00:10:24.280 you know my dad taught me that this is metaphorical but my dad taught me my dad's taught me uh you

00:10:30.300 know acts 29 but then you it was a gateway drug into the confessional historic faith and you go

00:10:35.080 wait a minute um maybe grandpa was actually smarter maybe grandpa was actually the one with

00:10:40.080 a head on his shoulders and i think that's what's happened with stephen wolf and christian nationalism

00:10:44.060 listen i read that book too and i said well this is kind of some edgy stuff and then you start

00:10:48.340 reading it and you're like well that's what aquinas said yep hmm that's what augustine said

00:10:53.320 that's what calvin said definitely what calvin said and you go okay okay wait a minute uh maybe

00:10:57.740 i'm wrong but i think what's happened in our culture is boomerism has infiltrated the church

00:11:04.120 it's infiltrated politics we think that democratic pluralism is the answer to everything um and when

00:11:11.660 people are challenging that which i think a lot of people in the younger generation are starting

00:11:15.840 to do i think that's where you you're seeing such a rift and a split um sort of like you know

00:11:23.180 this idea of a Christian prince is one example. Well, that is the most anti-boomer. Reno talks

00:11:29.360 about it in his book. He's like, basically, you're bringing back the strong gods of religion

00:11:32.820 to culture and to society. And we've learned all our lives that that's fascist. Like you want to

00:11:38.880 be Hitler. And that's why you see all these comparisons. Anytime somebody says, we want

00:11:43.200 to love our country. Oh, blood and soil, Hitler, you're Hitler. Like that's the immediate response 0.76

00:11:48.000 because that's how the boomers grew up thinking of democratic pluralism as the answer and in fact

00:11:53.480 even in the reno book uh he says democratic pluralism is going to be the savior of society

00:11:59.060 one group doesn't have power everybody it's distributed and uh we're not dominant christian

00:12:04.620 we're not dominant anything um and again so here along comes this generation saying christian

00:12:09.900 nationalism and um of course they're going to hate that that that is as antithetical to george

00:12:15.900 w bush obama clintonism as you could possibly get yep yeah you're absolutely right uh reno's

00:12:22.460 book was helpful um you know my my synopsis takeaway from his book was kind of like um

00:12:28.540 i think of you know uh saul has killed his thousands and david his tens of thousands so

00:12:33.500 it's like uh the strong gods have killed their thousands and the weak gods have killed their

00:12:39.620 tens of thousands uh the weak gods in the final analysis it seems as though they might actually

00:12:44.620 bear the potential of killing more uh not less doing more harm that's the crazy thing yeah right

00:12:51.000 the whole fear was that fascists uh like mussolini and hitler right um they were the real danger

00:12:58.060 and so we we functionally exterminated these guys we got rid of them from the world stage at least

00:13:04.120 and then on the scene comes totalitarian bureaucratic filth world statism and so you get

00:13:10.820 you know the USSR killing hundreds of millions right how many millions have been killed in

00:13:16.160 America since you know 1970 because of abortion right um yeah the this is the crazy thing right 0.90

00:13:22.700 the the atrocities done under bureaucratic filth world are far greater uh than what Christendom 0.95

00:13:28.940 did exactly what these supposed you know Christian nations uh had had had done on their right and and 0.85

00:13:35.640 I think that you know what I'm getting at and I think what you know what what Reno is getting at

00:13:39.260 is just that, well, it's the old Rushduni adage,

00:13:42.680 you know, not weather, but witch.

00:13:44.240 The strong gods are coming back.

00:13:46.200 So I think that that's baked into the equation.

00:13:48.260 I don't think we have much to say about that

00:13:50.780 because the weak gods have reigned.

00:13:54.080 Their divine reign has been long enough now

00:13:57.460 to where the people are ready to throw them off.

00:14:02.420 You know, the people, we've had it.

00:14:04.300 We've seen that, oh man,

00:14:05.800 the weak gods are worse than the strong gods.

00:14:07.560 So the strong gods are going to return.

00:14:10.080 So then the question is, which ones?

00:14:13.140 So this idea, globalism, that's a weak god.

00:14:16.360 So the way that Reno, you know, he says, you know, the weak gods are, it's like pluralism,

00:14:20.320 inclusivism.

00:14:21.920 It's, you know, it's the-

00:14:23.820 All the anti-fascism.

00:14:26.040 Exactly.

00:14:26.720 Anti-racism.

00:14:27.320 And all the phobias, right?

00:14:28.700 Homophobia, transphobia, you know, yeah.

00:14:31.120 So all these kinds of things, that's the weak gods.

00:14:34.080 The weak gods are, don't you ever, ever, ever make a strong dogmatic statement.

00:14:39.540 There is no dogmatism, no transcendent truth, no real authority, right?

00:14:46.060 It's just, it's egalitarianism across the board.

00:14:48.220 Everybody's an equal, but then, you know, that sounds great in theory, but in practice,

00:14:53.400 the way that plays out is, okay, well, Hitler's an authoritarian, six million Jews, right? 0.91

00:14:58.900 Okay, well, you got 60 million babies murdered under the weak gods. 0.86

00:15:04.080 with abortion, just in this nation. So my point is, it's just like, I think we've realized the

00:15:10.620 weak gods, that's unsustainable. We can't do that. The strong gods have problems. There are

00:15:15.080 problems with the strong gods if they're not Christian gods. So we're using lowercase g

00:15:19.100 gods. Just let the listener understand. What I'm trying to say is that I think the strong gods are

00:15:24.300 coming back. So instead of globalism, it's going to be nationalism. Instead of this egalitarianism,

00:15:30.980 it's going to be patriarchy, right? Instead of feminism, it's going to be patriarchy. Instead of 1.00

00:15:34.820 Darwinism, it's going to be religion and tradition and family. So then the question is,

00:15:40.920 which one? If nationalism is going to replace globalism, because we realize globalism kills

00:15:45.300 a hundred million and nationalism at its worst, on its worst day, only kills 10 million and 10

00:15:50.360 million dead is better than a hundred million. If there's going to be a return to the strong gods,

00:15:53.920 then the question is, is not whether, but which. So which nationalism do you want? Do you want

00:15:58.020 christian nationalism or islamic nationalism because you're probably gonna get one of those

00:16:02.060 two right do you want uh christian patriarchy or do you want uh joe rogan and andrew tate patriarchy

00:16:07.780 right do you want yeah see that's that's what i'm i think a lot of young guys are sensing right now

00:16:12.420 and boomers don't get it they don't um all of them except for doug wilson you know doug wilson gets

00:16:17.060 it but pretty much you know an entire generation and and so they think we're being contentious and

00:16:22.340 overzealous and that we're just being divisive and we're being argument argumentative for for

00:16:26.620 no reason, or platform building or trying just to take influence away from guys who have just

00:16:34.560 been so faithful for so many years. That's not it. What we're realizing is that something is

00:16:42.120 profoundly and deeply broken. And the solution cannot merely be to wind back the clock to the

00:16:49.680 1990s because the 1990s got us here. And so we're saying, well, wait a second, why can't the state

00:16:58.000 be Christian? A separation of church and state is not the same thing as a separation of Christ

00:17:02.720 and state. Why should the state be Christless? And those kinds of questions are starting to be

00:17:09.240 raised. Okay. And now if the state does honor Christ, well then what does that mean? Is it just

00:17:14.960 privately, that Caesar privately worships Christ? Or does Christ have something to say about our

00:17:20.540 vocation? Does he have something to say about all of our vocations? Is it just the pulpit,

00:17:24.580 the minister that Christ has orders for? Does he have orders for the cobbler, the one who makes

00:17:29.300 shoes? And does he have orders for Caesar? And not just how Caesar privately worships Christ,

00:17:34.280 but how he lives Christianly in his vocation, in his legislation. These are the questions that

00:17:39.740 we're starting to ask. And these are all reasonable questions, but right now we're seeing a massive

00:17:45.640 amount in the reformed world of division because the moment that younger guys, and again, like you

00:17:51.140 said, not 15-year-olds, but 35-year-olds start asking very, very reasonable questions, we're

00:17:57.440 being maligned, we're being slandered, we're being misrepresented. Oh, you want a Protestant pope?

00:18:01.620 Oh, you want this? You want that? And it's getting bad. It is getting bad. I think a big part of it,

00:18:07.380 Joel. Like, why is that happening? You know, it really comes down to really a Machiavellian

00:18:12.940 power structure at the base. This is what's happening. I think that people are cognizant

00:18:17.900 that there is a transfer, a generational transfer underway. And I think what you're seeing in the

00:18:24.540 boomer camp and in the older guys, this is very indicative of conservatism going back to like

00:18:30.320 William F. Buckley. As he approaches his sunset, he wants to guard and guarantee who gets

00:18:37.340 his inheritance culturally and so what he spent the end of his years doing was vilifying guys

00:18:44.340 like pat buchanan right um he did not want pat to take his reins and then push it in that direction

00:18:51.420 so he he essentially ousted him um and so this is this is what i think you're seeing a lot of

00:18:57.440 the older generation doing right now um you know they're they're trying to guard who the

00:19:03.140 the future leadership will be i think what's really interesting is if you you look at the

00:19:09.220 younger leadership you'll see something else in ministries and stuff like this different groups

00:19:13.940 people are all jockeying to to win that approval so the younger generation that is like yeah we're

00:19:20.500 going to be boomers to democratic pluralism right they think that they're going to get the

00:19:25.020 inheritance from dad that's what it is yeah they're the they're the older brother they're

00:19:28.900 not dad himself the boomers are that's dad but then there's the older brother like i i've always 0.98

00:19:33.620 worked for you i always you know like you said um you said that um that you know we we shouldn't

00:19:40.780 you know the politics is a separate thing and blah blah you know and principled pluralism and

00:19:45.040 so i said principled pluralism and and then they're seeing other guys who's not saying what

00:19:49.880 the boomer said we're disagreeing with dad and and rising to prominence and so the the older

00:19:56.040 brother is like wait a second i've been slaving away and and he's over here you know preaching

00:20:01.840 a different message and now he's people are following him they're listening to his podcast

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00:21:04.500 America is a country that was founded for the purpose of allowing Christians to do their duty

00:21:07.880 before God and not to have their consciences ruled by the doctrines and commandments of men.

00:21:12.260 Reese Fund exists in order to see the Ten Commandments properly applied, not just as a

00:21:16.720 plaque on the wall, but to actually be used in business as though they're commandments from God

00:21:21.660 that we're supposed to obey. Our goal is to find businesses and to buy them and to build them up.

00:21:27.860 We want to find manufacturing businesses and use them to make sure that we can maintain our

00:21:32.080 capacity to do things here. Reese Fund, Christian Capital, boldly deployed.

00:21:39.420 The big part of this, right, is that because of the way the world and technology has changed,

00:21:45.020 It used to be that you had to have certain things

00:21:47.380 to control institutional power.

00:21:49.020 So you got to have a TV station or a radio station

00:21:51.220 and a lot of money to publish books

00:21:53.660 and do stuff like that.

00:21:54.960 The name of the game has changed though

00:21:56.100 because of things like Twitter, now X.

00:21:58.880 So when you think about it,

00:22:00.020 some of the even groups that we've kind of gone

00:22:02.440 head to head with in the last year,

00:22:04.940 the irony is that we're basically nobodies

00:22:07.500 with no institutional power or little

00:22:09.980 who are a threat to people

00:22:13.140 who've been doing this for a long time,

00:22:14.660 who have longstanding preaching and teaching in conference ministries and whatever.

00:22:19.160 And I think what they're recognizing, both the older generation and then that younger generation,

00:22:24.240 as I described them, trying to grapple over who gets this inheritance, cultural, institutional,

00:22:29.680 or otherwise. What's really interesting about that is there is a group of guys who have basically

00:22:35.960 come in, swooped in, and stolen the hearts of a lot of these young people without anybody's

00:22:41.440 permission. And I think that's why you're seeing so many people be so upset about it.

00:22:45.540 Because, you know, we just got on Twitter and we're like telling the truth. And,

00:22:49.180 you know, I don't know about you, but for me, I wasn't like trying to build an audience.

00:22:53.060 I was just like, these things are true. And I'm going to point to them and say, that's true.

00:22:56.960 And I'm going to, you know, lean into the plow wherever I can, masculinity, King's Hall,

00:23:02.740 this sort of thing. And then you look behind you and you'll have a whole following.

00:23:07.740 right and then the older people are like well i didn't i didn't assign that to you you're stealing

00:23:13.180 my people um so i think and i can certainly understand that you know why these guys would

00:23:17.960 be frustrated so i i think the problem is though they because the game changed institutionally

00:23:23.480 right like those older guys i i don't think that they realize and a lot of younger guys trying to

00:23:28.960 get their favor i don't think they realize that the mass of people don't respect a lot of them

00:23:34.440 anymore and they don't trust them and so you do have a shift and you know as David and Saul it's

00:23:43.320 always going to create jealousy and Saul's probably going to try and kill David and you know if you're

00:23:48.120 the David out there then you just say okay well him trying to kill me elevates me to his position

00:23:52.140 and his level and keep fighting the good fight and but I've been reliably informed I've been

00:23:58.000 reliably informed that you're not David I am not David that's what Matt Chandler told me

00:24:04.280 he said you're not david he also said jesus wants to use mattress right so you know that's

00:24:11.220 all sorts of things for matt chandler all sorts of things but yeah and that's a good that's a

00:24:15.340 good example too is like you know why was jd greer preaching on this you know lambasting his

00:24:20.800 people for you know you've lost your soul because you voted for trump and people are leaving his

00:24:25.680 church and you know look at what's happening in acts 29 you look at all these things it's like

00:24:29.840 The institutional power is changing because you failed.

00:24:32.820 And when you fail as a leader, people don't trust you.

00:24:35.620 And so you're going to see a shift.

00:24:36.760 And I think, you know, tying it back to the generational divide, I think what's probably

00:24:42.700 going to happen is there will still be, in large part, the older generation trying to

00:24:49.480 work with younger guys who are going to follow what they were doing.

00:24:52.960 Right.

00:24:53.780 But I think you're seeing all these fault lines forming for a reason.

00:24:57.780 I think the tension will get worse.

00:24:59.100 um and then you know you're going to see a real shift i mean i don't mean to be crass but it's

00:25:04.360 like rc sprawl died john piper's you know nearing eternity uh john mccarthur the these guys are

00:25:12.120 they're exiting stage right and so that's going to cause change you know stuff is going to happen

00:25:17.620 and we'll see you know kind of where the power shakes out at that point yeah i think there's

00:25:22.220 frustration because you have company men you know uh it's like we we did it the right way we took

00:25:27.520 the right path we we went through the right channels um you know when when dad said jump

00:25:32.720 we said how high um we you know like we went through the proper institutions and and now

00:25:38.780 get the inheritance we should get the inheritance dad is exiting you know uh he's exiting the stage

00:25:43.600 and and you know we we were there we we were there for dad and um and so right now as dad's

00:25:50.740 now exiting the stage and about to hand over the the inheritance um they're discovering it's like

00:25:57.080 you know, like we're kind of, you know, we're using a lot of analogies here, David versus Saul,

00:26:01.160 but another one would be like Jacob versus Esau, you know, that Jacob, you know, slips in there

00:26:05.340 and it's actually a righteous thing to do. Jacob, I don't believe that he's actually being deceitful.

00:26:10.640 In fact, he's honoring his mother. His mother's the one who kind of puts him up to it. And,

00:26:14.460 and she is obeying the word of the Lord spoken, you know, in Malachi, the older,

00:26:19.520 a prophetic word that the older should serve the younger. She knows that Isaiah is the sinner in

00:26:23.820 the equation. Esau certainly is fleshly and sold his birthright for a bowl of soup. He's immoral, 0.65

00:26:30.180 as Hebrew says, but Isaac is the one who, Isaac's physical blindness, James B. Jordan talks about

00:26:35.780 this, like his physical blindness is indicative of at this point of his life. Yeah, spiritual blindness.

00:26:39.540 Spiritual blindness, exactly. He knows that Jacob's supposed to get the inheritance. 0.87

00:26:43.960 He knows that Jacob is the one that God has chosen. That's a prophetic word that they've

00:26:48.860 received. And so Rebecca is being righteous and saying, okay, like my husband is about to terribly

00:26:55.140 sin against the Lord by going directly in disobedience against what God has said,

00:27:00.660 giving the blessing to Esau when God has told him to give it to Jacob. It's Jacob's blessing. 0.89

00:27:07.640 And, but here's the deal. God is sovereign. And if God has determined that Jacob will get the

00:27:12.140 blessing, guess who's going to get the blessing? Jacob, he's going to work his way in there one

00:27:16.360 way or another, his mom's going to slip him in. He's going to put on goat skin, whatever he's got 0.99

00:27:20.040 to do, you know, but like, but if God has ordained that Jacob should get the blessing, uh, rather

00:27:24.720 than Esau, even though Esau was the favored son of, of his father, Isaac, um, then it doesn't

00:27:31.200 matter if God, if God has spoken it, then that's what's going to happen. And right now I think

00:27:34.640 that's, that's what's going on is that, uh, what we're realizing is that, okay, the last 80 years

00:27:39.540 haven't, haven't been so hot. This is not a winning strategy. And, uh, and a lot of these

00:27:43.600 things, they're novel. They're novel. People say, well, you lose down here, whatever, and we're not

00:27:50.340 supposed to win. What do you mean winning strategy? Okay, take all that language out of it. Take the

00:27:54.140 optimism, pessimism with eschatology. Put all that on the side for a moment. The bottom line is,

00:28:00.060 what does the Bible say and what has the witness of church history held to for 19 and a half

00:28:07.220 centuries i mean dispensationalism is novel that that it's novel that is not the long-standing

00:28:14.340 position that that is novel complementarianism is novel it is not historical it's novel um the idea

00:28:21.960 of of secularism secularism is novel globalism is novel all these things these these are the

00:28:28.780 inventions of men this is not the witness of history this is not the the biblical pattern

00:28:33.560 And so now you have a generation saying, okay, well, we want to go back to the Bible in part because of God's mercy and electing people and regenerating hearts and opening our eyes, but also in part because we are the prime object of the harm of trash world, the harm of all these novel positions.

00:28:52.780 We're the ones who are inheriting the bill, us and our children.

00:28:56.340 And so we're, you know, like people complain, well, in the seventies, you know, there were

00:29:00.200 18% interest rates.

00:29:02.000 Yeah.

00:29:02.120 On a $50,000 house.

00:29:04.180 Right.

00:29:04.720 Like, I understand.

00:29:05.420 It's not like, it's not like this is the first time that things have ever been economically

00:29:08.700 bad.

00:29:09.100 I understand.

00:29:09.900 All right.

00:29:10.140 I've read a little bit of history.

00:29:11.440 I understand that the economy, there's been some, some bleak moments.

00:29:14.680 I understand the great depression and I understand the seventies, you know, we're bad.

00:29:17.860 but there is it is an objective fact that our parents generations the boomers in terms of

00:29:26.440 income wages to housing cost even regardless of what the interest rate might have been

00:29:32.200 it was way easier for them to own a home than it is for somebody trying to buy a home who's

00:29:39.720 a millennial way easier not not even a comparison and so this idea of like okay well i'm trying to

00:29:45.540 obey God's word. I want to be a breadwinner. I want to be a protector and provider. I want to

00:29:49.700 have multiple children and I don't want to put them in public schools. And I want my wife to 0.72

00:29:53.740 be able to stay home and not rely on her for a second income. And I want to own a home so I'm

00:29:57.960 not just build somebody else's wealth, but so that I actually have an investment that I can give as

00:30:02.900 an inheritance to my children's children. In other words, I want to obey the scripture in tangible,

00:30:06.880 practical ways. And then you get out your calculator and you do the math and you realize

00:30:12.460 that your parents have made it all near impossible

00:30:16.040 to practically obey scripture in any of those regards.

00:30:21.440 And so, yeah, you're like, yeah, we want to change things.

00:30:24.000 We're not trying to be disrespectful.

00:30:26.380 We're not trying to be ornery

00:30:28.100 just for the point of being ornery.

00:30:29.800 We're not trying to just be this rebellious teenage kid.

00:30:35.420 Again, we're not teenagers.

00:30:36.700 We're in our 30s and we're looking at mom and dad

00:30:39.500 and saying, I love you.

00:30:40.820 and you're going to live with me when you're old

00:30:42.960 and I'm going to take care of you

00:30:44.420 and we're going to sing hymns over your bed as you're dying. 0.99

00:30:48.220 You're going to die with dignity, 0.93

00:30:49.320 but also you don't get to drive anymore.

00:30:52.000 I love you, mom and dad, but you don't get to, right?

00:30:54.100 There's a certain point where you can honor your father and mother,

00:30:56.700 but also you don't let them behind the wheel of a car.

00:30:59.560 You take away their keys.

00:31:00.680 And that doesn't mean you're dishonoring them.

00:31:02.580 That's just, you're saying, I'm sorry, mom.

00:31:05.280 I'm sorry, dad.

00:31:06.160 I'm sorry, father.

00:31:07.860 but but uh you you're you're degrading and you're just you're not able to do that and and you have 0.50

00:31:13.500 a proven track record of getting behind the wheel of a car and running running people over like you

00:31:18.120 can't you can't do that anymore i love you i will always love you and i'll provide for you and i'll 0.64

00:31:22.920 care for you uh and i honor you i do honor you but um but no your your generation can't drive

00:31:29.340 anymore and that's that's what we have we have biden is in his 80s driving nancy pelosi driving

00:31:35.320 like we can go on and on mitch mcconnell like like literally having brain aneurysms behind the

00:31:40.380 pulpit can't can't even talk and just like going going off into nowhere like diane feinstein dude

00:31:45.520 it's a it's an indictment on our it's our country is is mockable it's it's people the world is

00:31:51.600 laughing at us it's embarrassing years ago uh i think would sometime when it first came out but

00:31:57.720 bronze age mindset you know when that when that would i was reading that it was really interesting

00:32:02.640 because he said the kind of pinnacle of the downfall of our culture

00:32:08.000 will be where we're headed,

00:32:09.920 which is when sclerotic old men and the ginocracy rule. 1.00

00:32:14.660 And I was kind of like, hmm, that's weird. 1.00

00:32:16.500 And then you look around and that's exactly what it is.

00:32:18.700 Meanwhile, who gets really oppressed in that situation is young men.

00:32:23.940 I also think too, going back to what you were just saying,

00:32:27.540 there has to be a category where we can say

00:32:30.240 we want to be faithful men like Josiah.

00:32:32.640 who becomes king and begins with national repentance

00:32:36.160 and says, both we and our fathers have sinned.

00:32:39.460 And no one said to Josiah, you're dishonoring your father.

00:32:43.580 You're not dishonoring your father when you repent of sin,

00:32:46.360 his or yours or whatever.

00:32:48.180 Like that, he did the righteous thing.

00:32:50.480 And so I think we have to have that category.

00:32:52.220 And I think we can too also have a category

00:32:54.920 where we say like, I'm not gonna like belittle my parents.

00:32:58.000 I'm not gonna say nasty things to the boomers all the time. 0.99

00:33:01.740 But I am going to be cognizant of what the problems were.

00:33:05.960 This is one of the things Helen Andrews says in her book that I find so interesting. 0.98

00:33:10.320 She says, no culture lost more in terms of Western civilization than the boomers.

00:33:15.580 And she said, consider all the things that happened under the boomers' watch.

00:33:19.560 They brought women into the workforce.

00:33:21.360 The civil rights movement passed, which was the end of the first constitutional era. 0.90

00:33:28.240 Hyperinflation.

00:33:29.400 You have the 70s with banking changes and deregulation and all these things.

00:33:34.200 Student loan debt begins to triple. 0.69

00:33:36.700 Sexual anarchy in the 60s and 70s, all under the boomer watch. 0.57

00:33:41.420 So yeah, I mean, I think when you start adding it up,

00:33:44.380 and it is really hard because there's a lot of shame associated with this. 0.87

00:33:48.960 As a boomer, you have to say like, on our watch, like that sucked. 0.80

00:33:52.660 That was not good.

00:33:54.560 We have a lot to own up to.

00:33:56.640 Now, the one thing I will say, which I found an encouragement, so if there's older guys who listen to this and are like, yeah, but they're rubbing it in our face, whatever, you know, people who handle this really well.

00:34:07.420 I think one is like Chris Wiley.

00:34:09.460 I have another friend who's very similar to Chris. 0.99

00:34:12.040 They are boomers. 1.00

00:34:13.360 But they will say, you know what?

00:34:15.180 Our generation did a terrible job.

00:34:17.460 Not proud of it.

00:34:19.200 But here's what we can do to fix it.

00:34:20.960 and be an encouragement to the young people and pass off whatever inheritance you possibly can

00:34:26.920 to your children. But I think, you know, fundamentally, we all have to kind of own

00:34:33.340 the problem for what it is. We're not going to repent as a nation until we recognize all the

00:34:39.360 things that are wrong. And I think that is... Yeah, we're not going to repent until we realize

00:34:43.480 we messed this up. But I think that's the problem right now, Joel, is that you have boomers still 1.00

00:34:50.140 holding onto power. And they're like, no, we made the right decisions. Like the George W. Bushes of 0.99

00:34:55.400 the world are still defending Iraq and Afghanistan. Like, are you kidding me? Pretty much everybody 0.61

00:35:00.960 on both sides is like, that was a terrible decision. Financially for our country, wasn't

00:35:05.120 good. Shouldn't have done it. But they still won't own those mistakes. And I think that that causes

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00:37:10.920 that's the wordsoap.com everyone needs soap so wash yourself in the word

00:37:20.360 i want to read a couple quotes from thomas watson you know his book uh the ten commandments

00:37:25.240 is really helpful um but he he says this uh you know in commentating on a ton of common

00:37:31.800 commentating on exodus 2012 so exodus 2012 honor your father and mother that your days may be long

00:37:36.720 upon the land which the lord your god gives you um having done with the first table of the law

00:37:42.520 i am next to speak of the duties of the second table the ten commandments may be likened to

00:37:46.880 jacob's ladder the first table respects god and is the top of the ladder which reaches to heaven

00:37:53.260 the second respects man is the foot of the ladder that rests on the earth by the first table we walk

00:37:58.560 piously towards God. By the second, we walk religiously towards man. He cannot be good in

00:38:05.040 the first table, who is bad in the second. All right. So then honor your father and mother.

00:38:10.600 In this, we have a command, honor your father and your mother. And second, a reason for it,

00:38:15.440 that your days may be long in the land. The first commandment with a promise. This is all I'm

00:38:19.980 quoting Matthew Henry here. But then he gets into this. He says, father is of different kinds

00:38:25.300 as the political, the ancient, the spiritual, the domestic, and the natural or familial.

00:38:31.860 So he's saying there are different kinds of fathers, and Exodus 20, 12, it addresses all

00:38:36.940 of them.

00:38:37.440 It's including all of them.

00:38:38.840 So a lot of, again, to go back to the boomers when they say, well, you need to honor your

00:38:43.760 father.

00:38:44.960 Well, right there.

00:38:45.660 Which one?

00:38:46.780 Exactly.

00:38:47.400 Which one?

00:38:47.980 That's the question.

00:38:48.760 Which one?

00:38:49.520 It's not whether.

00:38:50.380 Of course, it's God's word.

00:38:51.520 We need to honor our father.

00:38:52.580 But the question is, which father?

00:38:54.020 So there's an obligation for me to honor my familial father, my actual father who brought me into the world.

00:39:00.480 In my case, I was adopted, but the one who named me, gave me his name, protected me, provided for me, who raised me, he fathered me.

00:39:08.860 But beyond that, there are other fathers.

00:39:10.900 So fathers of different kinds as the political, the ancient, the spiritual, the domestic, and the natural.

00:39:17.900 All right, so then he talks about the political father.

00:39:20.300 You want to read some of that, Eric?

00:39:21.700 I think you've got it pulled up too.

00:39:22.780 Yeah, absolutely. He says the political father or the magistrate. He is the father of his country. He is to be an encourager of virtue, a punisher of vice, and a father to the widow and the orphan. Such a father was Job. I was a father to the poor and the cause which I knew not I searched out. Job 29, 16.

00:39:41.980 As the magistrates are fathers, so especially the king, who is the head of magistrates, is a political father.

00:39:48.260 He is placed as the son among the lesser stars, and the scripture calls kings fathers.

00:39:53.500 Kings shall be your nursing fathers, Isaiah 49, 23.

00:39:57.060 They are to train up their subjects in piety by good edicts and examples. 0.88

00:40:00.800 I don't know, Joel, this sounds like Christian nationalism again.

00:40:03.620 They are to train up their subjects in piety by good edicts,

00:40:07.160 so creating laws that support biblical piety and examples.

00:40:11.980 and nurse them up in peace

00:40:13.720 and piety. Such

00:40:15.780 nursing fathers were David, Hezekiah,

00:40:17.740 Josiah, Constantine.

00:40:19.500 He lists Constantine.

00:40:20.600 I just got really uncomfortable.

00:40:23.080 And Theodosius. It is

00:40:24.780 well for people to have such nursing fathers

00:40:26.940 whose breast milk comfort their children

00:40:28.880 and these fathers

00:40:30.800 are to be

00:40:32.780 honored. Beautiful.

00:40:34.660 Fathers as magistrates,

00:40:37.080 Joel, are supposed to create

00:40:39.080 piety. So this is Matthew Henry.

00:40:40.580 right this is the late great puritan that that's thomas watson or i'm sorry thomas watson another

00:40:46.640 late great puritan and he's saying he lists constantine as a positive example of a nursing

00:40:51.600 father okay like and this is why i wanted to read this okay because all right i'm just going to be

00:40:57.380 frank i'm tired of of seeing guys uh building tombs to the prophets um but but they don't

00:41:09.940 actually honor them. They're not actually honoring their father. They say, oh man, we would have been

00:41:14.740 on Jeremiah's side, you know, had we lived in his day. You would have killed him. No, you would have 0.86

00:41:19.700 killed him. How do you know? Because Jesus is straight in the line of Jeremiah and Isaiah, 0.89

00:41:24.740 Ezekiel. Here's the prophet of your day and you're trying to murder him. That's how we know. 0.66

00:41:30.480 Yeah, you're absolutely right. And so much of this, it was actually Mark Driscoll years ago who said

00:41:34.500 a lot of reformed guys today are like ancient gun collectors. They collect old guns.

00:41:39.940 and you're like, oh, do you use that?

00:41:42.200 No, I've never even shot that gun in my life.

00:41:44.420 That's what we do with our theology books.

00:41:46.920 We don't put them into practice,

00:41:48.460 and then we criticize guys who do.

00:41:50.780 So this is the crazy thing,

00:41:52.440 say about the Christian nationalism debate,

00:41:55.020 again, is like, you can read Thomas Watson,

00:41:58.460 and there's all these reform publishing houses

00:42:01.320 that love to publish this stuff,

00:42:03.120 and they will do nothing on the cultural engagement front.

00:42:06.500 Nothing.

00:42:06.920 In fact, a lot of the books will actually cut out

00:42:09.860 parts of, you know, uh, that we don't like anymore. You know, William Gouge addresses

00:42:15.000 slavery and slaves and masters. That's not in the book anymore. It was cut out. Um, because

00:42:20.180 you know, it was in scripture, but it's not good enough for us today to, to read those

00:42:24.360 portions. So you look at these guys and we say, Oh man, we're so proud to be Westminsterian

00:42:30.620 or 1689. And you're like, you don't even know what these guys wrote. It's clear that

00:42:37.100 you're either willfully blind to it. 0.96

00:42:39.860 or you're ignorant it's like one of the two things you don't know what they wrote and i 0.76

00:42:43.520 know you don't know what they wrote because um what they wrote is almost been plagiarized by 0.94

00:42:49.220 steven wolf oh yeah you hate it well and i mean steven that's a joke i'm being facetious but

00:42:54.580 what i'm he's not a plagiarizer but what i'm saying is i mean steven wolf has has like all

00:43:00.100 but copy and pasted what they did all but copy and pasted the reformers yeah and so that's fine

00:43:05.940 if you don't like, because I actually would, would, I would detour from the reformers on a

00:43:09.720 few things. I would be more in, in the vein of Cornelius Van Til and a presuppositional idea.

00:43:15.060 So I would, I would, you know, I'm more of in the post-millennial theonomic camp, right? Whereas 0.84

00:43:19.840 Stephen Wolf is more very much in the Aquinas, you know, to mystic and he's all millennial. And,

00:43:25.280 but, but I'm even willing to, I've read Stephen Wolf's book. It wasn't easy. It's 400 pages long,

00:43:29.980 but I read it and I've read enough. I've read Calvin's institutes, right? Cause we all talked

00:43:33.620 about how we love Calvin. So I thought we actually meant that. I thought we loved Calvin. So I read

00:43:37.620 the Institutes and then I read Stephen and I'm able to recognize, all right, here's Calvin,

00:43:41.820 here's Stephen, and I will concede and say, I'm going to be on a platform with Stephen and Doug

00:43:46.420 Wilson at Fight, Laugh, Feast talking about Christian nationalism. And I plan to concede

00:43:49.540 even there and say, listen, guys, whatever we say about Stephen's view of Christian nationalism,

00:43:53.220 we all have to admit that he has claim on the reformers. He is more in line with their tradition

00:43:58.940 than we are. As post-millennial

00:44:01.060 theonomists, presuppositional

00:44:02.700 Vantillian

00:44:03.960 general equity theonomic guys, Bonson, 0.97

00:44:06.780 the Reconstructionists, I love them. I love Rush

00:44:08.840 Duny. I love Bonson, and I'm more

00:44:10.540 in line with them. But I recognize that

00:44:12.600 Stephen has more in common

00:44:14.780 with Calvin than Rush

00:44:16.720 Duny does.

00:44:19.080 So all I'm saying is, if you're

00:44:20.960 in a crew that loves

00:44:22.940 Calvin and claims to love the Reformers

00:44:25.120 but hates Stephen,

00:44:26.560 that seems kind of similar i'm not saying it's a one-to-one ratio but it seems kind of similar

00:44:32.720 to loving jeremiah and building his tomb but hating jesus well it's the same thing i mean

00:44:38.800 it's the same principle stephen's no jesus but it's the same principle i love the guys who sound

00:44:44.020 just like this guy but conveniently they're dead but then the guy who's living who's just

00:44:49.240 repeating their words that guy we're going to say is a heretic yeah i mean it's the exact same thing

00:44:56.320 we do with the prophets with the puritans i mean read the puritans on modesty you know the whole

00:45:01.820 modesty blow up on you know twitter x is not surprising uh what is surprising is how many

00:45:08.740 like reformed christians are joining in the mob and then you start reading like i don't know

00:45:14.980 somebody who's just real warm and devotional like uh john bunyan right and man did he have some 0.99

00:45:20.840 sharp things to say, uh, to women who dress like whores. And, uh, you know, we say John Bunyan's 0.98

00:45:27.120 so great. Not that John Bunyan, you know? Um, and, and it really does. I think it makes you realize

00:45:33.440 that, you know, what does this come down to? Like with the Pharisees, it's easy to celebrate things

00:45:40.080 in the past that you're not willing to fight for today. Yep. That's, that's the coward's position,

00:45:44.580 right? They didn't want, the Pharisees didn't want their position and their power to be threatened

00:45:49.120 by the roman government now actually i think you have a very similar thing that a lot of these

00:45:53.320 leaders of ministries and churches and blah blah blah who are so opposed to this everybody realizes

00:46:00.620 what a threat christian nationalism is everybody it is a real threat right and the reason why they

00:46:06.020 part of the reason you're making a really good point that they're tamping down on christian

00:46:09.240 nationalism speaking of now evangelical leaders not political regime but evangelical leaders

00:46:14.040 tamping down on christian nationalism because they know that's a threat to the regime

00:46:17.200 and it'll get us all in trouble. 0.86

00:46:19.000 In the same way that the Pharisees

00:46:20.260 were trying to suppress the Jewish zealots of their day

00:46:23.320 because they're like, hey, dude, 0.98

00:46:24.280 we've got a good thing going.

00:46:25.320 Like, yeah, it's not ideal.

00:46:26.800 We see it too. 0.99

00:46:27.740 Yeah, Rome kind of sucks and blah, blah, blah, 0.99

00:46:30.320 but this is as good as it's going to get. 0.99

00:46:32.720 Pipe down there, young man,

00:46:34.440 because if you speak too loudly,

00:46:36.660 Caesar will crush us.

00:46:38.420 And that was the Pharisees' position.

00:46:41.780 And it seems like that's kind of

00:46:43.520 some of our evangelical leaders' position right now

00:46:46.460 is, look, they'll let us have our Puritan conferences.

00:46:50.280 They'll let us go and do our tours

00:46:52.100 and visit Calvin's grave, you know?

00:46:54.200 As long as we don't try to implement any of it today.

00:46:56.300 As long as it's not theology applied.

00:46:59.280 So can we just have an agreement

00:47:01.140 where we just don't apply theology?

00:47:03.280 Privately, you can.

00:47:04.540 That's sure, that's fine.

00:47:06.140 Privately, you can.

00:47:07.740 But in the public square,

00:47:10.340 we need you to simmer down.

00:47:16.220 It's the same.

00:47:17.020 Dude, the parallel is, when you see it, it's inescapable.

00:47:21.540 Building the tombs to the prophets before you, the Pharisees saying, hush, hush, because

00:47:27.840 Rome, the regime, there's so many parallels, it's incredible.

00:47:32.060 Let's read a little bit more and then we can land the plane.

00:47:34.480 But I want to just read a little bit.

00:47:36.020 So that's the civil fathers, the political fathers.

00:47:39.360 Go on.

00:47:40.040 Let's scroll down a little bit here.

00:47:41.840 Scroll down, scroll down, scroll down.

00:47:43.520 Okay, the ancient father.

00:47:46.220 Eric, you want to read about the ancient father real quick?

00:47:49.160 Yeah, absolutely.

00:47:49.880 So there is the grave ancient father who is venerable for old age,

00:47:53.840 whose gray hairs are resembled to the white flowers of the almond tree.

00:47:58.000 Ecclesiastes 12.5.

00:47:59.760 There are fathers for seniority on whose wrinkled brows

00:48:02.560 and in the furrows of whose cheeks is pictured the map of old age.

00:48:06.500 These fathers are to be honored.

00:48:08.640 You shall rise up before the hoary head and honor the face of the old man.

00:48:11.720 Leviticus 19.32.

00:48:13.520 especially those are to be honored who are fathers,

00:48:16.440 not only for their seniority, but for their piety,

00:48:18.940 whose souls are flourishing when their bodies are decaying.

00:48:22.380 It is a blessed sight to see springs of grace in the winter of old age,

00:48:25.820 to see men stooping towards the grave, yet going up the hill of God,

00:48:29.980 to see them lose their color, yet keep their savor.

00:48:32.880 Those whose silver hairs are crowned with righteousness are worthy of double honor.

00:48:36.800 They are to be honored not only as pieces of antiquity, but as patterns of virtue.

00:48:41.500 If you see an old man fearing God whose grace shines brightest when the sun of his life is

00:48:45.780 setting, oh, honor him as a father by reverencing and imitating him.

00:48:51.500 Beautiful.

00:48:51.980 So this is actually helpful too, Joel, because a lot of people were like, I'm old, you have

00:48:55.700 to respect me.

00:48:56.480 Right. 1.00

00:48:56.860 And notice the connection with, well, you might be a vintage fool. 0.98

00:49:00.200 I don't actually have to honor you in the same way that I would a man who is actually 0.99

00:49:05.220 wise and godly and virtuous.

00:49:06.520 Right. A man stooping toward the grave, yet going up the hill of God. Or a man, if you see an old man fearing God, whose grace shines brightest when the sun of his life is setting, oh, honor him as father.

00:49:23.500 So here, we've got Watson making the argument, not just for your father, who if you're a grown man, if you're an adult child now, then your father is going to be old, but not just your old personal father, familial father, but all older men, that we honor your elders, plural, so those who are older.

00:49:43.780 So here Watson is making, so we've had the civil fathers, but if they're righteous, if

00:49:48.240 they're godly, and Thomas Watson gives some of the imperatives for civil fathers, and

00:49:53.480 now just fathers in general, the ancient fathers, those who are older, the generation older

00:49:57.740 than you.

00:49:58.620 But again, there's a condition, the caveat, if they honor God.

00:50:02.380 Let's look at spiritual fathers now.

00:50:04.280 Do you want to, or I'll read that one real quick.

00:50:06.520 There are spiritual fathers, as pastors and ministers, these are instruments of the new

00:50:11.320 birth.

00:50:11.660 though you have 10,000 instructors, yet you have not many fathers. For in Christ Jesus,

00:50:17.220 I have begotten you through the gospel. 1 Corinthians 4.15. The spiritual fathers are

00:50:22.000 to be honored in respect of their office. Whatever their persons are, their office is honorable.

00:50:27.700 They are messengers of the Lord Almighty. Malachi 2.7. They represent no less than God himself.

00:50:33.380 Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ. 2 Corinthians 5.20. Jesus Christ was of this

00:50:39.300 calling. He had his mission and sanction from heaven and this crowns the ministerial vocation

00:50:47.280 with honor, John 8, 18. These spiritual fathers are to be honored for their work's sake. They come

00:50:54.180 like the dove with an olive branch of peace in the mouth. They preach glad tidings of peace.

00:51:00.480 Their work is to save souls. Other vocations have only to do with men's bodies or estates,

00:51:06.000 but the minister's vocation is employed about the souls of men.

00:51:09.940 Their work is to redeem spiritual captives

00:51:12.120 and turn men from the power of Satan unto God, Acts 26, 18.

00:51:16.880 Their work is to enlighten those who sit in the region of darkness

00:51:20.680 and to make them shine as stars in the kingdom of heaven.

00:51:24.760 These spiritual fathers are to be honored for their work's sake,

00:51:28.040 and this honor is to be shown three ways.

00:51:32.020 Do you want to continue, Eric?

00:51:33.540 Yeah, definitely.

00:51:34.100 Number one, by giving them respect.

00:51:36.000 Know those who labor among you and are over you in the Lord and esteem them very highly in love for their work's sake.

00:51:43.860 1 Thessalonians 5, 12, and 13.

00:51:46.540 I confess the scandalous lives of some ministers have been a great reproach and have made the offering of the Lord to be abhorred in some places of the land.

00:51:56.240 The leper in the law was to have his lip covered, so such as are angels by office.

00:52:01.340 uh but lepers in their lives ought to have their lips covered and to be silenced but though some

00:52:08.020 deserve no honor yet such as are faithful and make it their work to bring souls to christ

00:52:12.120 are to be reverenced as spiritual fathers obadiah honored the prophet elijah first kings 18 7

00:52:18.240 why did god appoint that the prince should ask counsel of god by the priest numbers 27 21

00:52:23.800 why did the lord show by that miracle of aaron's rod flourishing that he had chosen the tribe of

00:52:29.580 Levi to minister before him. Number 17, why does Christ call his apostles the lights of the world?

00:52:36.960 Why does he say to all his ministers, lo, I am with you to the end of the world,

00:52:41.080 but because he would have these spiritual fathers reverenced. He says, honor these spiritual fathers

00:52:46.560 by becoming advocates for them and wiping off those slanders, which are unjustly cast upon 0.99

00:52:52.360 them. First Timothy 5, 19, Constantine was a great honor. I love that he's just using Constantine.

00:52:58.960 Constantine was a great honorer of the ministry.

00:53:01.480 He vindicated them, ministers.

00:53:04.300 He would not read the envious accusations

00:53:06.960 brought against them, but burnt them.

00:53:09.600 Do the ministers open their mouths to God for you in prayer?

00:53:13.060 And will you not open your mouths in their behalf?

00:53:16.400 Surely if they labor to preserve you from hell,

00:53:19.060 you should preserve them from slander.

00:53:21.700 If they labor to save your souls,

00:53:23.900 you ought to save their credit.

00:53:26.720 Good night.

00:53:27.540 that that would preach you want to say anything about that eric yeah no i mean i i think overall

00:53:33.820 you know like tonus watson going through this talking about authority um so what is interesting

00:53:39.860 here is the overall respect for authority we have people telling us you have to obey authority no

00:53:45.400 matter what this was the whole romans 13 thing but what's interesting i find is you know like

00:53:51.360 how many pastors were honored pastors who were doing the right thing particularly right how many

00:53:55.940 pastors were honored by anyone uh during covet not very many uh right like we honored james coates

00:54:02.360 but like did did the authorities did the canadian people right now and did the canadian christians

00:54:08.040 though see that's that's a sad thing i i there were so many canadian christians i remember getting

00:54:12.620 tons of bashing him they yeah they were like his church they're they're zealots and they're gonna

00:54:17.860 they're getting us all in trouble and they're making this more difficult than it has to be and

00:54:22.380 You know, a lot of times I've heard older people, you know, browbeat their children. You need to honor your father. You know, like, well, yeah, but I mean, like, we have to have a, Thomas Watson's great here because we have to have a full understanding of the whole range of what honoring authority means. And this would include, right, honoring your ministers. He'll say for conforming to their doctrine, this is the way that you honor them. So he's actually showing you how.

00:54:48.180 And then I think also like,

00:54:49.880 then we'll get into number four.

00:54:51.180 Like there's the domestic father who Thomas Watson very unpolitically

00:54:56.100 correctly calls the master.

00:54:59.240 He's the father of the family.

00:55:01.040 Right.

00:55:01.340 Therefore,

00:55:01.740 Naaman's servants called their master father.

00:55:03.740 Second Kings five 13. 0.73

00:55:06.120 You have the centurion who calls a servant son,

00:55:10.120 Matthew eight six.

00:55:11.520 The servant is to honor his master as the father of the family.

00:55:14.120 The master is not so qualified as he should be.

00:55:16.560 yet the servant must not neglect his duty but show some kind of honor to him so you have honor

00:55:21.360 and obedience um you know again the only authority we were told to obey is you know lord fauci but

00:55:29.140 outside of that like no other authority matters so you can kind of see where all the distortions 0.69

00:55:34.900 happen in our society where you have boomers who are like you have to do what i say the government 0.87

00:55:38.700 says you have to do what i say but you read this and you're like well wait a minute there's a whole 0.86

00:55:43.440 range of ways in which you have to obey authority. Like, let's do them all. And then they're like,

00:55:48.060 nah, we're actually not in favor of that. Exactly. And that's the big point. There are a lot of

00:55:53.420 fathers. There are a lot of fathers. And if we're going to be faithful in the Decalogue and obeying

00:55:58.620 the fifth commandment, it's not just your familial father. It is fathers. There are civil fathers.

00:56:06.460 there are familial fathers, there are ancient fathers, spiritual fathers, natural fathers,

00:56:12.540 and there are fathers spanning back all the way until Adam, all the way until the beginning of

00:56:20.740 the world. So it's not just the immediate fathers right before our generation, but there is a sense

00:56:28.260 in which the apostle Paul is our father. There is a sense in which Calvin is our father. Augustine

00:56:36.020 is our father. Athanasius is one of our fathers. Constantine is one of our fathers. And so there

00:56:44.860 is something, remember, and this is the rhetoric that I thought we all, I thought we already

00:56:48.920 figured this out. That's why it's so frustrating for me. I thought we figured it out when people

00:56:52.960 were tearing down statues of fathers. And then we did this whole woke thing back in 2020. Right now,

00:57:00.340 it's like right now we did a woke war one now we're doing woke war two right so this is this

00:57:06.600 is ww2 that we're in you know just three years later right but people change sides exactly so

00:57:12.080 um but but in woke war one um i remember that there was a consensus from those who you know

00:57:18.340 were on the conservative side uh that we wanted to honor our fathers and that yeah sure our fathers

00:57:23.960 had some faults. But we wanted to recognize that Stonewall Jackson, we're going to be worshiping

00:57:31.300 with him in eternity in heaven. So if we don't want to make that awkward, we probably should

00:57:36.840 just come to terms with that right now. I mean, there's going to be a lot of people shocked

00:57:41.280 by the very... Now, I won't say this dogmatically, only the Lord knows. But I will say in terms of

00:57:47.080 likelihoods, statistical likelihoods, there's a good chance that Martin Luther King Jr. is in hell

00:57:52.620 and stonewall jackson is in heaven and there's a lot of christians who i believe really are

00:57:58.640 regenerate who are going to be shocked when they die and go to heaven and find that mlk jr

00:58:03.960 very likely is in hell and stonewall jackson along with a lot of other slave owners are in

00:58:10.100 heaven around the throne of god yeah you know and so i thought we were having that conversation

00:58:14.500 three years ago and i thought that we kind of settled it right that we lost about half of

00:58:18.480 evangelicalism, Russell Moore and David Fringe and, you know, everybody, I thought, I thought we

00:58:22.640 already, it's like Gideon with his army. That's what it feels like right now. It's like, all right,

00:58:26.300 we already, God already trimmed off half of our army. Surely that's enough. And now God's like,

00:58:31.280 nah, let's whittle it down to 300. You know, let's see who laps like a dog, you know, versus those

00:58:36.160 who, you know, and so like, and, and so here we are, you know, WW2 now woke war two in 2023. 0.62

00:58:42.840 And we haven't learned the lessons, right? Cause we were saying, this was the rhetoric that you're

00:58:47.060 pulling down statues and we're saying, wait a second, a generation that dishonors its fathers

00:58:51.960 will not be honored by God. We don't need to be doing this. This is wrong. But then all of a

00:58:56.640 sudden, what happens just three years later is we say, you know what? I like that. That's really

00:59:00.360 good. We should honor our fathers. Let's dust them off. Let's see what they wrote and let's obey.

00:59:05.720 Let's put it into action. And then all of a sudden it's like, no, no, no, no, no. Don't you

00:59:10.600 dare honor your fathers. When we said honor fathers, we didn't mean Calvin. We meant us.

00:59:17.060 us we meant us we went boomers we meant boomer theology we meant honor the theology of your

00:59:23.420 fathers it goes back all the way to the 1960s yeah and not a second before and that's where

00:59:29.140 we are right now yeah anyway so we can land the plane eric any final thoughts yeah no i think

00:59:34.200 that's really good i think the big question as you pointed out um you think about the generational

00:59:39.740 things. It really comes down to, I think, a competition between ancient fathers who were

00:59:47.580 probably right and more modern fathers in multiple senses. Some of them are political,

00:59:52.820 some of them are religious, who are quite obviously wrong. And so what we have to do is

00:59:58.360 you have to make a decision. And what I would just encourage people with is, well, the decision

01:00:03.560 should be made. Which father aligns with God's word? Which father aligns with the righteous

01:00:09.660 of scripture. And one of the things I've tended in the last 10 years, say, of my life to really

01:00:16.680 lean on is that on issues like sexuality and biblical interpretation, I put less and less

01:00:24.820 weight on what people today are saying about those things because they've been so unreliable.

01:00:31.080 And so what I am more prone to do is actually to go back to Matthew Henry. I had a pastor tell me

01:00:35.800 one time when I first started my preaching ministry, he said, I would really shy away

01:00:41.520 from reading a lot of modern commentaries about the text. And he said, I would lean on Matthew

01:00:47.080 Henry and John Calvin. And I said, well, do you think that John Calvin just didn't have errors?

01:00:51.820 And he was like, no, I think he did, but his errors weren't our errors. His errors weren't

01:00:56.880 1970s and after errors. His errors weren't John Piper and Grudem and complementarian errors.

01:01:03.100 you're not going to find that error in John Calvin

01:01:05.060 because he didn't care about that.

01:01:07.100 So I think that's one thing that I would say to people

01:01:09.800 is having the perspective to get out of your time

01:01:13.120 and to read the ancient fathers is going to be really helpful.

01:01:16.300 I don't think they're right about everything.

01:01:20.360 Unfortunately, Joel, some of them take the Sethite view.

01:01:22.820 So we know they're wrong.

01:01:25.800 Yeah, for about 1,500 years of them take the Sethite view.

01:01:30.340 if we want to honor our ancient fathers yes our oldest fathers they believe the bible that's

01:01:36.900 exactly right so fallen angels that exactly fallen angels all the way on a cosmos go listen yeah so

01:01:43.100 but but in all seriousness i think it's like being aware of that and then i would just encourage

01:01:48.220 people to to step back and just think about what's happening uh in this moment and say okay

01:01:54.620 is this historical you know meaning like you know people are losing their minds i've done this

01:02:00.320 before, Joel, I remember reading a book about Abraham Lincoln and it was like, Abraham Lincoln

01:02:05.200 was a tyrant. And I was like, excuse me, that is not what they told me in public school.

01:02:09.680 And for, for a half second, I was upset, but then, you know, sort of by the grace of God,

01:02:14.120 it's like, okay, well let's examine the argument though. Let's just hear the guy out. Let's hear

01:02:18.380 what he has to say. And you start reading it and you're like, okay, there might be a valid case

01:02:22.360 here, you know? And, and, and so because of those things that they've happened in my life, so many

01:02:27.400 times where I was a dispensationalist forever. And then I read David Chilton and I was like,

01:02:31.680 wait a minute, I didn't even know this other view existed. So that has caused me to be a lot slower

01:02:38.440 to bash somebody like Stephen Wolf. And I didn't, I mean, I saw, we probably all did. You saw the

01:02:43.440 quotes in the beginning and people were like, these are problematic. And I was like, you know,

01:02:46.920 I'm going to, I'm going to reserve judgment. I'm going to read the dang book. And then I read the

01:02:51.720 book and I was like, I don't know, this seems historical. So that's what I think a lot of

01:02:56.880 people especially on twitter need to do is slow down do the reading you know how many of these

01:03:01.400 people who are being hypercritical they still haven't read the book and they don't intend to

01:03:06.220 haven't a few of them i've you know have at least they've said i read the book um you know and

01:03:12.580 they'll do a screenshot of a page or two i don't know if they read it carefully but here's here's

01:03:16.420 part of the problem and i'll just be honest i won't instead of calling everyone else dumb

01:03:20.120 i'll just go ahead and call myself dumb um steven wolf's book is a difficult book yeah 0.56

01:03:26.220 um and so number one yeah 95 percent of people who are angry on twitter have not read the book

01:03:33.440 i can just about guarantee that but even the five percent that have and of those five percent some

01:03:38.720 of them still saying well i i did read the book and it's terrible um i'll just speak for myself

01:03:44.500 but let the listener understand the point that i'm making i don't know if uh if i caught everything

01:03:50.760 in the i i feel like a little bit of it went over my like steven is writing at a very academic

01:03:55.980 yeah level and a lot of us who even did read the book um may not be qualified to comment on the

01:04:04.220 book yeah but we're like honestly like see that and that's the difficulty this is where we go

01:04:10.660 back and forth right so it's like me and you were doing a podcast right now and a bunch of people

01:04:13.680 are going to listen and this goes back to the whole gatekeeping and institutions the whole nine

01:04:17.080 yards but like because we don't have our institutions are corrupt and and a lot of them

01:04:23.800 are being broken down and destroyed right now, and they're falling into ruins, it's like the

01:04:30.920 Luther thing, right? So it's like, if you do this, if Luther translates from the Latin Vulgate into

01:04:36.100 the Vulgar tongue, the common tongue, then you're going to open up the floodgate of iniquity,

01:04:41.440 Luther, so be it. You're going to have 45,000 different denominations, which is what we have 0.97

01:04:46.260 today. And what I've always told people is I've said, better to have a needle of truth in a

01:04:51.720 haystack of falsehoods than to have a hay, instead of a haystack, you have a bushel of wheat, nice

01:04:58.880 and trim and all bound up, wrapped together, but there's no needle at all. There's no truth,

01:05:03.480 right? That's what Rome was. Well, you've got Luther, God's giving reformation, theological

01:05:08.500 reformation, but also in his providence, he's giving, he's giving innovation, technological

01:05:14.340 innovation teamed up with that theological reformation. And that's what we have again,

01:05:18.220 with social media, with podcasting, with the internet, thanks to Al Gore. But what we have,

01:05:25.240 it's the same kind of thing. I think there's some theological reformation happening right now,

01:05:29.580 teamed up in God's sovereignty as providence with a technological innovation. And what it allows for

01:05:36.380 is truth. But it also does allow for the peanut gallery. And I'm a bit of a peanut gallery

01:05:44.180 person myself from time to time it allows for the peanut gallery to be behind a microphone

01:05:48.620 and so my point is like everybody has an opinion and honestly i'd rather it be that i'd rather have

01:05:54.320 the mess that we have on twitter because a lot of people are bothered by it and sure it's frustrating

01:05:58.380 um but i'm glad i'm glad that that there's something outside of the status quo being

01:06:04.500 talked about i'm glad that we have an old idea that's not just more post-war you know consensus

01:06:11.640 I'm glad that we're dusting off some kind of stuff.

01:06:14.460 Now, everyone's talking about it and not everybody's qualified to talk about it.

01:06:17.800 And I would, in some sense, include myself in that.

01:06:21.720 I don't think that I have the academic know-how, the philosophical, political, theological

01:06:28.720 understanding that Stephen Wolfe does.

01:06:30.820 I don't.

01:06:32.140 And a lot of people who don't like his book, they don't either.

01:06:34.540 That's my point.

01:06:35.480 They don't.

01:06:36.960 They're not really qualified to have a credible opinion.

01:06:40.180 but i defend their right to have an opinion and i'm glad that we've gotten out we've broken out

01:06:45.720 of the bubble the ivory tower where we're getting to hear multiple different voices but i think we

01:06:50.640 just need to recognize that um that what we're seeing right now it's not it's not novel it's

01:06:55.780 not pressing on to this new unheard of foreign thing it's really just turning a chapter back

01:07:01.260 in the story that god's been writing these past 2 000 years of church history and we're just now

01:07:06.520 hearing it because the mold has been broken in a technological, innovative sense in God's

01:07:11.820 providence to where voices that before the regime would have crushed, they never would

01:07:17.120 have seen the light of day.

01:07:18.280 Stephen Wolf never would have made his way into a pulpit before the internet and these

01:07:25.400 kinds of things.

01:07:26.100 If it wasn't for canon, that book's not getting published.

01:07:28.440 Crossway's not publishing the case for Christian nationalism.

01:07:30.900 No way.

01:07:31.620 you know and so so it's it's a miraculous incredible thing that's happening right now

01:07:36.480 but it my point is just like the reformation it's a messy thing yeah and and and and i think it's

01:07:42.460 just going to be that for a while it's going to be messy but it's good because better to have a

01:07:47.620 mess with some truth in there than to have nice clean tidy you know no mess but also no no truth

01:07:57.640 Oh, big time. Well, you know, just to put it in historical perspective too, you know, even this week on Twitter, you know, I've got the feminists are mad, whatever. A lot of Christians are mad too. How dare a pastor speak so harsh? 1.00

01:08:12.460 You already said the feminist. You don't have to repeat yourself. 1.00

01:08:15.220 Exactly. But, but it was really interesting because my oldest boy is reading the bondage of the will and reading through some other literature of Luther for, you know, third form in St. Brandon's Academy. And he was telling me, he was pretty funny. He goes, yeah, you know, our teacher showed us your Twitter today, dad. And he said, I got to say, I'm a little disappointed. And I was like, really? What are you disappointed about, son? And he said, well, you're a little soft. Let me read you some of the things Luther said.

01:08:42.720 and he's reading them and i'm like wait that's in the i don't remember that i have to go back

01:08:47.380 and read that and then you think about it and it's like we have just no idea where where did

01:08:52.460 all of the like pietistic language and like you know when you get in a disagreement with somebody

01:08:57.200 on twitter it's got to be like oh brother i yearn for your soul above the highest heavens

01:09:02.600 that ye shall repent and that we you would come to a proper understanding of not being a racist

01:09:08.140 bigoted anti whatever

01:09:10.100 and you're like okay just

01:09:11.620 you know again

01:09:14.100 put it in historical perspective

01:09:15.540 anytime you have a reformation

01:09:18.000 as you said it's going to be messy

01:09:19.460 what was Luther like 0.84

01:09:21.200 was he like you know

01:09:23.780 winsome Matt Chandler type guy

01:09:25.660 no there's going to be men

01:09:27.920 at the front of this thing who are doing the fighting

01:09:29.720 and trust me when the fighting comes these are the

01:09:31.980 men you want and so I think

01:09:33.920 again we'll see that we'll see more

01:09:35.980 of the shifting keep in mind Stephen

01:09:37.980 Wolf's an intellectual. I think he's done a phenomenal job. I think what you're going to

01:09:41.460 see though, um, is people who take up that mantle who are a little bit more brawlers

01:09:45.500 and street fighters. And that's when it's going to get interesting. And I think that's a good

01:09:50.480 thing for the church. I think it's a good thing for, uh, the future of America. I do not think

01:09:56.100 that democratic pluralism is a healthy, happy future. We've already seen the fruit of that

01:10:00.500 really sucks. Right. It's not sustainable. And that's the thing people are like, Oh, this is, 0.97

01:10:04.680 you know, but your attitude or this or that. And like, yeah, we want to be godly. I'm not trying

01:10:08.980 to excuse sin. But again, what I'm saying is all of this is an improvement. All of it's an

01:10:15.140 improvement. Like Luther was an improvement to indulgences. And relics. And so too disrespectful

01:10:22.700 at times, disrespectful memes on Twitter are an improvement to the global homo regime that we 1.00

01:10:31.100 current that that we currently have um so you know again that doesn't mean like oh so you have 0.94

01:10:36.860 to be mean you have to be rude you have to be disrespectful sure we should we should try uh to

01:10:41.920 have you know have our cake and eat it too we should try to be godly yeah and persuasive um

01:10:47.140 but what i'm saying is that uh talk about you know straining gnats and swallowing camels the

01:10:52.380 biggest problem in evangelicalism and in our nation and in the world right now is not a few

01:10:59.060 rough and tumble guys, reformed guys in their 30s on Twitter. And to think, I mean, you have to

01:11:07.260 have so lost the thread to think that that is the biggest problem. If you think that a guy advocating

01:11:15.400 for Christian nationalism is your enemy and that that's the big threat, then you have...

01:11:22.180 But here's the thing, Joel.

01:11:23.300 You're just gone.

01:11:24.420 Here's the thing. This is what's crazy is again, because of Luther, everybody talks about Luther

01:11:30.740 and the reformation, but there was advances going on with the printing press and having people who

01:11:35.360 would publish it and all these things. So the, the, the media or the medium was a huge part of

01:11:40.860 the reformation. You could not have had that without mass producing pamphlets. Well, and there

01:11:45.440 were memes. We're going after something very important here. And because of Twitter and

01:11:50.660 because of all these things, like you and I are not, you know, massive, we're not Simon and

01:11:54.520 Schuster, you know, uh, Canon press is not Simon and Schuster, but we have access to Amazon now.

01:11:59.780 So because of the technological medium advancements, uh, we're able to get our

01:12:03.660 messages out there. And this is true. We are, we are a threat, which is why you have like,

01:12:10.740 why the heck is Jenna Ellis talking about like the danger of Christian nationalism?

01:12:15.200 Like, why does she even care? So that's the craziness of it. But I think we should also

01:12:20.380 be encouraged that um that you can have so little resources right but if you have the truth you have

01:12:28.860 so little resources but you have the truth like you can go and look and you're like how come russell

01:12:32.960 moore has this kind of big platform on social media and like there's zero engagement you ever

01:12:37.720 wondered that like nobody cares russ and then you go to our accounts and it's like well we had to

01:12:42.460 build our accounts based on quality content that's a fair free market type approach like

01:12:48.220 your content does well because people like it and people are essentially voting for it and and many

01:12:53.680 people voting you know to destroy you but you know that aside um i i think it should be an

01:12:59.960 encouragement to a lot of people that's like this sleeper movement could actually do a great thing

01:13:04.520 and i would also encourage people like it's the same thing tucker carlson did with andrew tate

01:13:09.900 he forced masculinity into the mainstream conversation and everybody was mad like why

01:13:15.120 would you interview andrew you know why would canon publish christian nationals well here we

01:13:20.100 are talking about it and here like people at the top are talking about this theory and they're

01:13:25.920 sending fbi people and all that good stuff too so it matters it is making inroads it's effective

01:13:31.760 and you know that's a good strategy to say like what does the enemy hate

01:13:35.520 well why right you know because it's effective they know it yep yep uh christ in politics

01:13:44.360 I think in, yeah, Christ in politics,

01:13:47.920 the civil magistrate actually being consciously Christian.

01:13:54.040 And then God's design for men and women.

01:13:58.740 I think those are two of the biggest patriarchy 0.81

01:14:01.400 and Christian nationalism right now. 0.85

01:14:03.240 It's just, it's not a coincidence that those two things

01:14:06.140 get a ton of engagement and get a ton of pushback.

01:14:09.560 All right, well, thanks for coming on the show, Eric.

01:14:11.080 I really appreciate it.

01:14:12.040 Yeah, absolutely, Joel.

01:14:12.900 My pleasure.

01:14:13.500 We'll be right back.

The NXR Podcast - August 26, 2024

THE INTERVIEW - The Fifth Commandment with Eric Conn

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