00:01:41.260I assume you have Calvin's view of the sacraments of, you know, spiritual presence.
00:01:48.840Yeah, I mean, anything you want to share, go for it.
00:01:51.680yeah so the um the the bad thing that i believe is i believe in evolution as well um so that's
00:01:59.060one of the things okay all right well it's always nice to i wish you led with hey i'm a heretic but
00:02:04.340go ahead yeah i'm gonna be doing a debate sometime this winter with keith foskey on evolution i
00:02:11.320already did a debate oh you are okay cool yeah i already did a debate with him on infant baptism
00:02:16.200um so like there still is a bit of pc usa in me um i believe in evolution also something i believe
00:02:25.980in that i think doesn't get talked about enough i believe strongly in kingdom theology that there's
00:02:30.840continuity between this age and the age to come and all good things of this world will be restored
00:02:35.860i i hold to that as well you're probably aware i utterly despise the view that the new heavens
00:02:42.440and the new earth is going to be, this world's going to get utterly nuked and the new heavens
00:02:46.460and the new earth is going to be something completely different. In reality, it's going
00:02:49.840to be different, but the same. It's like, yes, there will be an end to this physical creation
00:02:54.740in some sense, but the next one is going to be an updated version of this one. So it's not wrong
00:03:01.260when the Bible says it'll be destroyed by fire, but it's a purifying fire. I don't think God is
00:03:05.940going to destroy anything he has made. With that said, I'm not a universalist. I don't believe in
00:03:12.040universal salvation but i believe in the salvation of the universe yep yeah so i'm with you 100 on
00:03:17.920that um i yeah i don't believe i'm uh that the the earthly cosmos is going to be annihilated or
00:03:25.440disintegrated um i same with you uh fire i think purifies uh you know that there was a purification
00:03:31.500first by water then by fire um but every yeah i think every good work um every good endeavor that
00:03:37.880it has, there's an eternal value there. I think that we're going to the new heavens on the new
00:03:44.620earth. It's not another earth, but this earth made new and that we will see the Alps. It'll be a
00:03:50.480glorified Alps. It's not going to be a different world or a different mountain range, but a glorified
00:03:55.080Alps, glorified rivers, glorified, and we're going to be able to look around and say, I know this
00:03:59.240place is similar to like Narnia and C.S. Lewis, you know, except I'm, you know, I don't like that
00:04:03.580It's all in Plato is one of the lines that, you know, in the last battle, when they enter into the, you know, the new Aslan's country, the new Narnia, they're like, I recognize this, but this is Narnia, you know, and they're like, it's all in Plato.
00:04:14.340And so, but then, you know, they're using that to talk about forms and I would be more on the, you know, well, Aristotle kind of side of thing.
00:04:22.340I don't think that, you know, that the truest, you know, that earth is only real because it exists somewhere else, you know, and this is just, you know, a form of it.
00:04:30.000But anyways, but that, but that basic concept. Yeah. I think that the new heavens and new earth
00:04:33.780will be here. It'll be this earth made new. And, um, and what we do actually matters. It's going
00:04:38.640to be redeemed. I don't think that, you know, all creation groans with eager expectations for the
00:04:42.620sons of God to be revealed. Van Druden and some of the Westminster Escondido guys, they say that,
00:04:46.920you know, the creation is basically the creation is just groaning for a mercy killing. It wants
00:04:51.920God to take it out behind the shed and put it down. And, uh, and I don't think, I don't think
00:04:55.920that's it. I think creation is groaning because it's eager to be restored alongside the sons of
00:05:01.200God. But real quick, let's go back to evolution. So I'm sure you're familiar with this, but I do
00:05:07.220think evolution is a massive, massive problem. So I don't want to be too comical about it because I
00:05:12.740think it matters. But theologically, this is what I'll say, and I'm just curious to hear your take
00:05:18.420because I know that this won't be novel for you. I'm sure you've heard it before.
00:05:22.220Um, some of my problems with evolution, some of my biggest problems is just what, um, what
00:05:29.400The idea that, um, um, uh, if, if death is God's instrument, uh, in creating the world,
00:05:35.740um, then, you know, death was, uh, you know, kind of that, um, death was alive and well,
00:05:40.860uh, long before sin entered the world.
00:05:42.920Uh, so for me, um, you know, uh, thinking of Romans five, you know, through one man's
00:05:47.980sin, Adam, the first Adam, uh, death into the world through sin.
00:05:51.520And by the final Adam, the second Adam, Christ, by his obedience, you know, then we have this reversing, you know, he comes to make his blessings flow as far as the curse is found.
00:06:02.620And so for me, that's one of the biggest problems is that what you have with evolution is you have Adam and Eve standing on top of a mountain of, you know, billions, if not trillions of skulls and not single-celled organisms.
00:06:15.520I'm fine with mitigated entropy, just for the record.
00:06:18.020I think leaves died in the garden before they sent, right?
00:06:20.520I think that, you know, there was bacteria and amoeba and things like, so mitigated entropy
00:06:24.820is fine. I think that's God's design, even in a prelapsarian world, but we're not talking about
00:06:29.240that. We're not talking about single celled organisms or leaves dying. We're talking about
00:06:33.120humanoid, you know, all the way up to Homo erectus and then Homo sapiens, you know, just,0.91
00:06:37.860just whole swaths of them dead, dead, dead, dead, dead. And then Adam and Eve, you know,
00:06:42.300are standing on top of a mountain of skulls and God finally breathes his spirit into them and
00:06:47.100gives them a soul, you know, and now we have, you know, humanity and then Adam sins. And well,
00:06:53.460the consequence for sin is death. And which I feel like Adam would probably have a difficult
00:06:58.180time comprehending because he'd be like, you mean death? You mean that this mountain that I'm
00:07:01.760standing on with all these skulls, that thing that was already alive and well for millions of years
00:07:07.020before I was ever even born, much less sinned. So what's so bad about that? So that would be one of
00:07:12.740my major objections to evolution theologically i think it messes with the gospel never heard that
00:07:18.600one before um so what's the what was the tree of life for what was the tree of life for so i i hold
00:07:25.140to um that there was actually it was a probationary period um so i i don't hold that adam and eve were
00:07:30.980eating of the tree of life on a daily basis but rather it would have been extended to them
00:07:34.960after the completion of a probationary period of resisting uh i i would agree with that but what
00:07:40.980did it do? Like what, what would have happened if they had eaten it? It would have made them
00:07:44.460immutable. So all they had to do to live forever. So I'm going to just juxtapose forever life and
00:07:49.320eternal life here. So to live forever, they actually didn't need to eat of the tree of life.
00:07:53.200They just needed to not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. So, and they would
00:07:57.380have lived forever. So the tree of life did not give Adam, it would not have given Adam forever
00:08:03.840life. Instead, what it would have done is it would have given him eternal life. And I'm using that
00:08:08.620the way i'm using eternal and forever and you know distinguishing the two is immutability that
00:08:13.060it would have brought him to a state of immutability where he would be unable to fall
00:08:16.580yeah that's an interesting way of putting it i believe there was death before the fall i think
00:08:22.220that there's a few reasons i know there's the objection sin entered through adam so i think
00:08:26.880the tree of life it the it says that if adam had eaten from it he would not die i think the
00:08:32.760implication there is that adam was mortal and the way to avoid dying was he could have eaten from
00:08:37.500the tree of life he was offered immortality and he rejected it in favor of sin i think that's kind
00:08:43.480of the big deal about the fall and also darkness was present in the creation from the very beginning
00:08:50.080it says that the light was good and separate was separated from the darkness so eden was good it
00:08:56.480was not perfect uh god has always been able to bring good out of evil now there is the problem
00:09:00.680if sin entered through adam um then how was there sin before that well we know there was already evil
00:10:07.300The difference between the devil's sin and Adam's, at least one difference, several, but
00:10:11.640one difference would be federal headship. So Satan, Lucifer did not have federal headship
00:10:18.440over the created cosmos. So his sin is irrelevant in the sense of it does not bring a curse to bear
00:10:26.660on the created cosmos. So Satan sinning affects Satan, but even that's another interesting thing
00:10:33.960in terms of angelic beings. There's no federal headship among angels. So Satan's fall doesn't
00:10:39.840cause the created earthly cosmos to fall. It doesn't create or cause or necessitate
00:10:45.460other angelic hosts falling. It just, Satan rebelling against God affects Satan. That's it.
00:10:52.120Satan falls. What's key, integral, is Satan getting Adam to actually sin because Adam is
00:10:59.440the federal head of not just, you know, Eve and all their posterity, but, you know, curses the
00:11:05.220ground because of you. The dirt gets cursed. The whole enchilada, the whole, you know, created
00:11:10.740cosmos, Adam was federal head over all of that. So yes, I think you're right chronologically that
00:11:17.140the sin of Satan predates the sin of Adam, but Satan's sin doesn't cause anyone to fall but him.
00:11:25.100He has no federal headship. He's not a father. You know, he is the father of lies, but he's not a father of any creature. He has not created anything. And so he's not representative of anything. So I don't think that, you know, so Satan sinning before Adam, I don't believe brings any curse of sin or darkness into the world.
00:11:46.420Whether or whether or not there was darkness doesn't necessitate that that darkness was evil.
00:11:51.140I don't think there was evil in the world before Adam.
00:11:53.860I don't think Satan had that authority.
00:11:55.980He doesn't have federal headship to bring evil into the world or subject the world to evil.
00:12:01.420I would agree that the fall of Satan itself is not what brought darkness into the world.
00:12:06.300But in the book of Job, we see God permits Satan to bring evil things into the world if the greater purpose is testing humanity or something.
00:12:14.000And the Bible also says Satan and his evil forces have dominion over the world.0.50
00:15:43.720He's not the origin of evil, but he absolutely ordains evil.
00:15:47.220not merely allowing, but his allowing is ordaining. So I'm with you 100% in that general,
00:15:52.300if we're talking about just that general concept of God's sovereignty over evil,
00:15:55.620where I lose you is I think you just, you would need to make a stronger argument. So you keep
00:16:03.240saying that, you know, the devil had influence over the creation, over the created cosmos. And,
00:16:08.100but the only, you know, way that you're substantiating that is just by the mere,
00:16:13.000you know, presence of darkness or chaos, you know, the spirit hovering above the waters,
00:16:18.000there was darkness, you know, those kinds of things. Because I'm with you, I think that,
00:16:22.560you know, even when all six days are done, you know, so initially, of course, the earth is void
00:16:28.180and without form. And so, you know, because there's a process of creation, God works through
00:16:32.460processes and that's his prerogative to do so. And he has good and holy purposes for doing that.
00:16:37.760You know, he could have just spoke it all into existence, but he does it over a six day period.
00:16:41.440There's a process. But even when the process is complete, there's still wilderness. I don't think
00:16:47.660the Sahara Desert is merely a result of the fall. I think that there were deserts in the world,
00:16:54.400even when God looks at the whole world and says, it is good. And that that was, you know, that Adam
00:16:59.140had an eschaton is, I guess, what I'm getting at. And I think you and I would agree with that.0.97
00:17:03.320So if Adam had never fallen, if he had never sinned and transferred dominion over the earthly
00:17:08.740cosmos to Satan, his eschaton, part of what that would have been was working and keeping the garden,
00:17:15.700working, I take that to mean that built into working, it assumes expansion, building, increase,
00:17:23.320that by working faithfully in the garden, the garden would eventually have increased. And right
00:17:28.300there, the implication is, it's important for us to recognize that all the creation, I think, was
00:17:32.740good, but it was not all equally good, that the garden was superior to the rest of creation.
00:17:39.080So there's a garden paradise, but there are other places that are not subdued, that are not
00:17:43.920paradise. And then some places that are desolate, like deserts. And eventually what Adam would have
00:17:51.060done in his working capacity is expand the garden over the whole face of the earth, including
00:17:55.980deserts. And I think that's something that we're going to do. The new Adam, he's come to make his
00:18:01.220blessings flow as far as the curse is found. I believe in human history before Christ's final
00:18:05.740physical return, that there will be no deserts on the earth anymore. And I think part of the key
00:18:11.160there is primary water, and I got to get really weird for that, and I won't. But tapping into
00:18:15.660primary water, getting under the surface, boom, and maybe we do it with Mars too. But the point
00:18:19.960is that getting rid of beautifying and cultivating the whole earth, that's the working, and then the
00:18:24.820keeping is the defense. So sword and trowel, like Nehemiah and Ezra, the sword only exists to serve
00:18:31.040the trowel. You don't need a sword if you're not building, because if you're not building,
00:18:34.840you're not a threat and you won't be under attack. So you only need a sword to defend
00:18:38.560the work that you're actually producing. And so I think Adam was to work and keep expanding the
00:18:43.620garden and then keep it. He failed in that capacity. But all that being said, my point is,
00:18:49.400even before the fall and before Adam sinned, the fact that there were desolate places or
00:18:54.620wilderness or this or that, I don't think that necessitates evil. I think that that, or the
00:19:01.080influence of Satan or Satan having some kind of authority over the created cosmos, I think all
00:19:06.020that necessitates is that God had a process of, in the same way that he, you know, the process began
00:19:13.020in the first six days of God's creation, void, without form, you know, spirit hovering above
00:19:18.820the waters, and then, you know, that cultivates and culminates is what I'm trying to say, and
00:19:23.440becomes greater and greater and greater. It's three days of creating and then separating and
00:19:29.880then three days of filling is what we see in this creation pattern. And I think that pattern would
00:19:34.640have just continued under Adam's dominion, under his reign. Eventually, every single desert gets
00:19:41.200filled in and the whole world becomes a garden. And none of that necessitates these void places
00:19:48.700or desolate places evil in my assessment all right everybody's been asking can i live stream
00:19:54.320your conference and the answer is a resounding no you will be there in person or you will not be
00:19:59.960there at all i'm just kidding you actually can live stream the conference we're excited to announce
00:20:04.720we're making it available to anybody and everybody who wants to watch this conference right as it's
00:20:10.620happening which is march 1st and 2nd that's a friday and saturday of 2024 what conference am
00:20:16.640I even talking about? It's called Blueprints for Christendom 2.0. We've got Pastor Douglas Wilson,
00:20:22.360we've got Dr. Joe Boot, we've got Brian Sauve, we've got Eric Kahn, and then of course, yours
00:20:27.340truly, Joel Webbin. We've got seven primary sessions in the conference, each one being probably
00:20:33.30050 to 60 minute long sessions, lectures, sermons, whatever you want to call them, and then two live
00:20:39.740panels, each being an hour and a half long. Now, one of the panels is on biblical patriarchy. We're
00:20:44.960going to have pastor douglas wilson available for that panel and we decided to get eric khan because
00:20:50.680eric khan biblical patriarchy let's just be honest it's a sensitive topic but eric khan i think is
00:20:56.640known as one of the most nuanced careful and sensitive individuals especially on the twitter
00:21:01.220street so we're going to have him as a part of that panel it'll go really well then the second
00:21:05.280panel is haunted cosmos live show you've got brian sauve and ben garrett talking about the most
00:21:11.600unhinged things imaginable hopefully some things that are actually truthful now there will be some
00:21:17.120truthful things you're going to stick to scripture and when they speculate and you know they will
00:21:20.660they'll at least let you know that it's speculation and they won't pass it off as though it's in the
00:21:25.140infallible word of god so live stream this conference how do you do it go to patreon.com
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00:21:38.520ministries a lot of guys charge 50 bucks 60 bucks 80 bucks we are asking that you would simply
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00:23:09.960So you admitted that evil is not a substance. It's a lack of good. Evil is like cold and good
00:23:16.300is like heat. So in that sense, you can't say that something is less good without saying it's
00:23:22.600more evil. There's the way you can't say something is less hot without saying it's more cold.
00:23:26.140Well, okay, so getting philosophically, if we're talking about, you know, the evil is something that's created that's not fulfilling its purpose.
00:23:33.340And glory, for something to be glorious, it's fulfilling the purpose for which it was designed.
00:23:37.740I think, you know, deserts were created by God and that he created no bad thing.
00:23:43.240So I think that God created deserts, that deserts are inferior.
00:23:47.520They pale in comparison to garden paradises, but that a desert is not evil, because a desert is a desert.
00:24:00.420It is fulfilling its desert function.1.00
00:24:04.020Right, so this is going to sound kind of bardian, I think he was right about this,0.89
00:24:08.300but anything that is, by nature being finite, anything that is finite is, in some sense, a little bit evil compared to God.0.63
00:24:17.520So that way, the only way for God to be reconciled to the finite creation is a form of theosis through Christ, where all of creation partakes of God's infinite, perfect goodness through the incarnation.
00:24:29.280That's why Barth was a super lapsarian in saying that the incarnation is absolutely necessary.
00:24:34.540Even if Adam had not sinned, Jesus still would have had to have incarnated into this world for the sake of reconciling God to creation.
00:24:42.240okay bring that uh back to the just to apply that for me to right so because creation evolution
00:24:50.740because of that you can say that you can assume that if there's darkness darkness equals evil i
00:24:56.680i think the in conjunction with the fact that the tree of life i think implies that death was the
00:25:03.960norm before that that in conjunction with there being darkness and chaos um in the very beginning
00:25:09.420i think that implies that yes there was evil there was not only was satan there but satan
00:25:16.480had some sort of influence before the fall um it says like the serpent was the serpent was more
00:25:22.820crafty it clearly the serpent wasn't born yesterday clearly he had already been active
00:25:27.800i think all those in conjunction it doesn't make a conclusive case it doesn't uh make a case such
00:25:32.960that i can say someone's being unbiblical if they don't agree with this definitely leaves over the
00:25:37.080leaves open the possibility for evolution. And I think evolution is actually a beautiful picture
00:25:43.140of the gospel. It is life out of death. It is light out of darkness. The resurrection is the
00:25:48.760ultimate example of good being brought out of evil. One of my favorite verses in the whole Bible
00:25:52.840is Genesis 50, where it says, you meant it for evil. God meant it for good. Satan meant all this
00:25:57.680death for evil. God brought good out of it. The whole reason God allows evil is because he's
00:26:02.280glorified and bring good out of it. I kind of converted to Christianity the night that I
00:26:06.080realized God brings good out of evil, because the problem of evil was kind of the reason
00:26:10.180why I was doubting God, why I refuse, even though I believe in a deistic God, I refuse to submit to
00:26:15.940any sort of real interactive God. So that's just for me why I think evolution is a possibility.
00:26:23.620Not only possibility, it makes the most sense to believe in evolution. I think it makes most
00:26:28.640sense with the biblical narrative. I don't think it's conclusive, but it's something I believe in.
00:26:32.980i also think you know the it's naturally revealed that um evolution is true that's a whole different
00:26:37.740debate there's really two debates whether um whether we can justify theologically whether
00:26:42.880we can justify it scientifically i would say i'd say affirmative to both but even so that's just
00:26:48.320one of the things i believe um i i believe in certain modern you know evolutionary neo-orthodox
00:26:54.520ideas but only insofar as they're compatible with you know historic christianity with westminster
00:26:59.640with all that and you think evolution is compatible with the westminster yes i would
00:27:07.400it's like it said it says you know six days i think so i mean the bible also says six days but
00:27:14.640there's a long tradition of that being interpreted in all sorts of ways even way before darwin
00:27:19.240existed so all right interesting well strongly disagree but i'll be debating that in uh in
00:27:28.220December with, uh, this is December. I'll be debating that sometime this winter with
00:27:31.960Keith Foskey. So yeah, Keith's a good guy. Cool. Yeah. Yeah. I'll, I'll check it out when it comes
00:27:36.440out. I'm sure it'll be interesting. Um, and you know, I, I, I, I'm, I'm sounds kind of funny,
00:27:45.260but I'm kind of glad that you affirm evolution because, um, you know, in two to five years,
00:27:50.820that's going to be a great testimony. Um, and I think God will use you powerfully as you condemn
00:27:55.540evolution because inevitably I absolutely believe you will see about that we'll see about that
00:28:01.380kind of like kind of like how you're going to become Presbyterian in a few years
00:28:05.300that's the running joke uh that is that's been the joke online and uh I see how people get there
00:28:12.440yeah everyone says everyone says I'm a week away from becoming Catholic and they've been saying
00:28:17.420that for like as long as I've been an internet thing at all like a year so yeah the whole Catholic0.69
00:28:23.640argument of you know well you protestants are crazy and believe a million different things i
00:28:29.040you know i i get it uh but then but then here's the thing you look at the pope0.88
00:28:36.640you know and explain to me how that's better again explain to me how the pope is not nearly
00:28:44.100as liberal as what i've seen in mainline protestant denominations it's like i'll still
00:28:48.660grant that Catholicism has been less high hijacked than Protestantism has, but for sure, I think you
00:28:54.340could use that as an argument for Protestantism. The devil hijacks what is the greatest threat to
00:28:58.980him. I think the greatest threat to Satan's kingdom is Protestantism. That's why it's been0.99
00:29:03.620so targeted. Um, so it's like, that would be another great conversation we could have one day
00:29:09.200is, uh, cause I, you know, when I think of the Protestant reformation, I feel like in a lot of
00:29:14.040way. So I'm grateful. I'm Protestant and, you know, but, um, I'm grateful. Uh, and I think
00:29:19.720it was mostly good, but I, I do think in a very real sense, um, that, uh, the Protestant0.77
00:29:24.620Reformation was opening, uh, Pandora's box. And there's, uh, there are certain things we just,
00:29:29.740um, that have come out of that box that, uh, that don't go back in that box. And, um,
00:29:35.160and that we are forever, uh, that, that Christendom is forever, um, going to have to
00:29:42.460face some immense challenges because of the protestant uh reformation that when it comes to
00:29:48.280post-modernity and um and subjectivism uh like when it comes to just assurance of salvation
00:29:54.840like i understand i don't know if you've read much about like the federal vision you know
00:29:59.720controversy and things like that but like i understand i'm sympathetic in what they were
00:30:03.700trying to get at i'm not i'm no federal visionist um i you know but i i think that part of it was
00:30:08.640this attempt of, without embracing Roman Catholicism, trying to say, like, is there any
00:30:13.820objectivity to the covenant? Is there any sense of assurance? Is there any sense, like, can I ever,
00:30:19.900you know, or we as Protestants just going to be looking for the burning of our bosom, you know,
00:30:24.740like in this kind of, like, to, you know, well, I'm a Christian because I feel it. Like, so much
00:30:31.420of Protestantism is the feels and that you can't really, that doesn't go back in the box. Like,
00:30:40.860you separated from tradition and from the Roman Catholic Church and rejected these things,
00:30:48.560and I understand why theologically I'm on the Protestant side, but there are some immense
00:30:52.520challenges when it comes to Protestantism is just, it's moldable, it's malleable, it's subjective,
00:30:59.180um way more subjective than i like yeah i think federal vision was a justified reaction
00:31:05.960to subjectivism and low sacramentology in the pca and the opc because like what federal vision
00:31:13.580teaches about the sacraments aside from pedo communion it's just classic reform theology
00:31:18.120um now i pedo communion contradicts the westminster and scott's confession so i reject
00:31:23.320pedo communion but the whole idea that baptism makes you christian objectively that's classic
00:31:28.860reformed theology um the idea that the covenant is objective that's classic reformed theology
00:31:34.460so i'm not a federal visionist but the idea that people are calling this heresy
00:31:38.520it's like some people will call federal visionists heretics because they're half lutheran
00:31:43.420but they don't call lutherans heretics yeah i know that that's what yeah that's what i don't
00:31:47.360get it's like i well i do get it i it's it really is this simple um it's associated with doug wilson
00:31:54.880that's all there is i mean that really is all all there is to it because because you're right
00:31:59.800because it's it's like well this is a halfway house between luther you know lutheranism and
00:32:04.100you know presbyterianism and it's like okay well are lutherans heretics no presbyterian heretics
00:32:09.980no it's a it's not a lot of it's just classic reform stuff the reality is the pca is a halfway
00:32:16.880house between presbyterian and southern baptist um and i've had many pca ministers admit that to me
00:32:22.680uh but like peter lightheart in terms of the theological aspect he's probably the most
00:32:27.700hardcore federal visionist in terms of his you know theology um my pcusa pastor has quoted peter
00:32:34.440lightheart so um i feel like the conservative end of the pcusa like i said it's kind of just
00:32:40.080it's very similar to the federal vision crec guys minus the paedo communion um pcusa was never
00:32:46.580rocked by the federal vision controversy we were too busy debating whether to believe in god
00:32:51.220so we don't really we don't really take a side on that but um oh that's so sad yeah that's not
00:32:58.660we're trying to fix i think the reason the mainline churches got hijacked they're a threat
00:33:02.960to satan's kingdom there's a reason there's a reason there was no progressive hijack of the
00:33:07.500jehovah's witnesses or the mormon church right or or scientology there's there's no jehovah's
00:33:13.880witness pride flag church right um it's because satan doesn't bother retaking them there there's
00:33:19.540a reason that there's no progressive hijack of islam it's not a threat to satan's kingdom so0.51
00:33:26.000it's like when eastern orthodox yes i'll admit of all the christianity you know expressions eastern
00:33:31.920orthodoxy has been the least hijacked by progressivism and they're like oh that means0.70
00:33:35.640we're right become orthodox okay by that logic islam is correct because islam has gotten even0.88
00:33:41.060less hijacked by progressivism than eastern orthodoxy so the most hijacked is i think honestly0.86
00:33:47.720the most hijacked is the you know puritan congregationalist um hardcore calvinist
00:33:54.860denominations out of everything i think those are the ones that are would be most glorious if we if
00:34:01.800we retook and congregationalism is a via media between presbyterian and baptist so maybe that's
00:34:06.820something that the um crec folks could get on board with right yeah and they are on on i think
00:34:12.940the CREC folks already are on board with, um, yeah, they're the most ecumenical to, you know,
00:34:19.360at least reformed, you know, reformed Baptist guys. Um, I mean, if you're, you know, if you're
00:34:24.880just a typical American, you know, Armenian Baptist and you're not going to have much room
00:34:30.260there, but, but yeah, I know lots of guys who are, you know, there's 1689 congregational guys
00:34:35.180and they're in the CREC. So, yeah, cool. Well, redeemed zoomer. Um, thank you, Richard.
00:34:40.860thank you well thanks for having me on this is great