The NXR Podcast - THE LIVESTREAM - 3 Tools For Judging Conspiracies

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00:00:30 The Bible warns us that the slugger justifies his laziness, claiming that there's a danger around

00:00:36 every corner, like a lion. That's Proverbs 22, verse 13. But the Bible also tells us in Ephesians

00:00:42 chapter 5, verse 11 through 13, that we are actively called to expose the deeds that are 0.82

00:00:48 done in darkness, even those dark deeds that are done by unbelievers. Continuing on, 0.69

00:00:54 Now, discernment, therefore, in biblical terms, it's not primarily a supernatural spidey sense

00:01:02 that tingles every time something bad is about to happen and it only is accessible to those

00:01:09 especially spiritual Christians. No, in biblical terms, discernment is simply the ability to

00:01:15 understand what the threats of our time are and to practically apply biblical principles to them.

00:01:22 So today's episode is this, three tools for judging conspiracies, three tools for judging

00:01:30 conspiracies. And before we begin this conversation, the first thing that I think is in order is simply

00:01:35 to introduce the crew. So. Hey, Joel, really glad to be here. Really excited for this. My name is

00:01:41 Michael Belch. I am a member at Joel's church and I teach for an online classical school,

00:01:47 logos online school and uh you know a fellow red pillar and believer in conspiracy theories

00:01:53 right amen except the only difference is we're trying to follow that red pill with a christ

00:01:59 pill and not you know the black pill and disparage you know what we need we need the pill that's

00:02:04 actually the do something about it pill the do something yeah i don't know what color that is

00:02:08 but we need that color of pill amen that's great here we go yep so my name is wesley todd uh

00:02:14 Christian. I'm also a husband, father to two children, one of them just born last month. So

00:02:18 God's really blessed our family. Work a regular corporate job, nine to five in health research.

00:02:24 Excited to be here. Thanks so much for having me on. Absolutely. Awesome. All right. So let's go

00:02:30 ahead and start the conversation. Three tools for judging conspiracies. And like Michael said,

00:02:35 I think the first thing that we should admit is, well, at least over these past few years,

00:02:40 the difference between a conspiracy and the truth is approximately three to six months so we we are

00:02:46 not you know going to sit here and lecture you from an ivory tower of sophistication saying i

00:02:50 can't believe you blue collar fly over country neanderthals believe in conspiracies no we we

00:02:57 believe in a lot of conspiracies because it turns out uh there are wicked people in the world and

00:03:02 sometimes wicked people actually organize together in darkness to accomplish wicked things yeah right

00:03:09 Yeah. No, I agree with that. And what's what's I think what is particularly difficult is admitting that you live in a time where things are bad enough that some of these conspiracies might be true.

00:03:24 And I know for myself, when I was thinking about BLM stuff and was this orchestrated behind the scenes, COVID stuff, is this orchestrated behind the scenes, the biggest thing for me was getting to the point where I had to admit the society and nation that I love has descended to the point where lying is not just expected, it's incentivized.

00:03:47 Right. Right. And being dishonest and hiding and power plays of this sort is something that can yield a lot of power, a lot of money, a lot of influence.

00:03:56 And because of that, it's more likely than not that these sort of conspiracies and plots are going on.

00:04:03 Yeah. And there's been so much propaganda, too.

00:04:06 So with the amount of information, the speed that it travels with, if you work a white collar job, you're getting bombarded with propaganda.

00:04:13 propaganda diversity is our strength love is love just just given to you as like this is fact

00:04:19 accept it why would you even think to question are you some backwoods hillbilly and so you and

00:04:24 bombard you are bombarded with any type of social media daily on a daily basis with things that you

00:04:30 should believe um to much greater degree than previous generations had to deal with they didn't

00:04:35 have to deal with that level of information control and bombardment right yep the you're

00:04:39 you're constantly the social media. And then of course the long house department, HR,

00:04:43 you know, with all the school moms that are, you know, constantly telling you to be moral,

00:04:48 to be moral, to be moral and to be moral is, you know, whatever the reigning dogma of that moment

00:04:53 is. And diversity, you know, is, is a big one. And, you know, with diversity, you know,

00:04:58 I preached on this even just as last Sunday, but diversity is not our strength, especially when it

00:05:04 comes to uh diversity of of lies or polytheism or plural like that's the whole idea principled

00:05:12 pluralism well wait a second if there is a transcendent truth that reigns above all the

00:05:18 like god be true though every man were a liar right so if if the word of god is true and there

00:05:23 is a transcendent universally absolute truth standard uh then principled pluralism just means

00:05:30 we're going to have this true transcendent standard and we're going to have a bunch of

00:05:34 other things that are other than true. You might call them deceptions and we're going to call that

00:05:39 a strength. No, that's just called compromise. I would much rather have a monolithic organization

00:05:46 or society that all ascends to one truth provided that that one truth is in fact true. The idea that

00:05:54 we all have compromising convictions and beliefs and different standards and weights and measurements

00:06:00 for what's even a virtue or what's a vice. This is not our strength. Diversity is our strength.

00:06:06 It was just rhetoric that has been used by some of our overlords in order to pollute our nation.

00:06:13 And I'm not even speaking about ethnicity or even immigration in a literal sense,

00:06:18 but the immigration of ideas. I'm talking about Marxism. I'm talking about false doctrine

00:06:23 coming into the church i'm talking about blm i'm talking you know and and immigration because 1.00

00:06:30 let's be honest it's it's a full-blown invasion you cannot you cannot bring people in without

00:06:36 bringing their ideas right and i remember hearing a podcast recently we live in texas

00:06:41 and the guy was saying that 2023 was the most favorable year for pro-muslim policies

00:06:49 in texas history wow and it's not that we want to hate muslims but the muslim worldview and the

00:06:57 christian worldview are diametrically opposed yes and it seems like to your point there is a

00:07:02 concerted effort to uh take many different steps that all combine to water down solid christian

00:07:11 western um values and worldview and um when that collapses then anything can go right then

00:07:19 anything can go right and even basic competency too that's where it almost can feel like a

00:07:23 conspiracy because it's actually the things we share that make us most able to pursue a harmonious

00:07:28 life when you share language when you share a place when you share values when you share a

00:07:33 calendar you share religion those actually sharing those things is what enables distinct people groups

00:07:37 to actually pursue what's good and right and so you see almost feels concerted almost feels

00:07:42 deliberate to say no no no uh all these different groups uh that that's what makes us strong no it's

00:07:48 not you guys speaking the same language pursuing a shared goal in physics or mathematics this side

00:07:53 or the other it's uh being diverse in every dimension yeah and that's the opposite it's

00:07:58 funny because that's the opposite of of genesis 11 with the tower of babel because god it's not

00:08:03 just man they don't just say look look we can do whatever we want so long as we say stay united

00:08:08 in the same way that like in genesis 1 and 2 you know adam formed before eve he's the only human

00:08:13 being on the planet adam doesn't notice his aloneness but god takes note of it and god says

00:08:17 it's not good for the man to be alone likewise in a similar fashion in genesis 11 it's not the

00:08:22 people congregated together who are building this tower to ascend to the heavens that take note of

00:08:27 themselves and say if we stay together if we you know continue to unite nothing is impossible for

00:08:32 us but god actually says let us go down and confuse our languages for if they remain united

00:08:39 nothing will be so god even takes note of the power of unity among his image bearing creatures

00:08:46 And just for the record, I don't know, I think the two of you both agree with this.

00:08:50 We've had some offline discussions, you know, our men's night with the church and stuff like that.

00:08:55 But I'm of the persuasion that Babel was not a curse.

00:09:01 I view Babel...

00:09:02 No, absolutely not.

00:09:02 Okay.

00:09:03 So I view Babel as like the original dominion mandate given in the garden pre-sin, so in a pre-lapsarian world, is to be fruitful and multiply.

00:09:10 and that the natural implication of that is that Adam and Eve would not congregate in the garden 0.94

00:09:16 because they would multiply so fruitfully, so successfully, that they would have to spread out

00:09:21 over the face of the earth with image bearers of the living God, aka worshipers, because this is

00:09:26 a pre-fallen world, so they would be their hearts bent towards God, bent towards heaven, and they

00:09:31 would also expand not only their posterity, their descendants, but also Adam in working and keeping

00:09:37 the garden, both defending it and the keeping aspect, but working it, that working would

00:09:42 include expansion and increase, so they would cover the whole earth with a garden city of

00:09:50 the Lord, this garden paradise, and fill it with image-bearing worshipers of the triune

00:09:55 God, and that was—so my point is, the dominion mandate, I think it necessarily—I think

00:10:01 you could say it's a necessary inference.

00:10:03 If you multiply successfully, you can't all live on one square mile.

00:10:07 with a billion people. So what were they going to do? They were geographically going to spread

00:10:12 out. And in the spreading out, Stephen Wolf even talks about some of these things,

00:10:17 and I think he's right. In spreading out, when they spread out really far, like different

00:10:21 continents, eventually, it may be 100 years before we go back and visit great, great, great,

00:10:27 great, great granddad Adam. And so we've been over here for 150 years and haven't gone back

00:10:33 to the mainland in quite a while, haven't visited, and oh, we didn't even really notice, but there's

00:10:39 some different dialects starting to emerge and some different cultures.

00:10:43 Cold, we dress differently.

00:10:43 Exactly. Like, we have a lot of Germans in our area of Texas where we live that all came over, 0.99

00:10:49 you know, as refugees, you know, escaping World War I and World War II, and so now it's like on

00:10:55 the third and fourth generation. And it's funny because we have a family in our church that

00:11:01 actually are from germany um but like they moved here exactly they moved here like a year ago and 0.97

00:11:07 so they're like full-bred germans and and they even are able to notice that if they go up to

00:11:12 fredericksburg for instance which is a totally a german town um if they talk to any of hear anyone 0.67

00:11:18 talking in german in that town these fourth generation descendants they're like you don't

00:11:23 speak german the way we do it's a different dialect and and even some of the words we've

00:11:29 we we just have different words and so so that would my point is you would have had different

00:11:34 nations you would have had different nations different groups different languages different

00:11:38 cultures probably different flavors of food all those kinds of things but all christian oriented

00:11:43 right because we're not saying all cultures are equal some cultures are better than others

00:11:47 cultures that say hey you should show up on time are better than cultures that show up three hours

00:11:51 late that's just a fact that's not racism that's just a fact that has to do with respecting people

00:11:56 it comes from love for neighbor, it comes from the Christian worldview. But you could have

00:12:00 cultures, I think hypothetically, we could presuppose equal cultures morally that still

00:12:05 have distinction. Equal doesn't necessarily mean it has to be the same. They could be equally

00:12:10 committed to the Christian worldview, the triune God, but have different flavors in their food.

00:12:14 I'll do you one better, Joel. I believe that Babel was necessary, that the development of 0.57

00:12:20 language was necessary. I teach language, that's my day job. And as I've looked at Babel and

00:12:26 Pentecost, and then the scene of those gathered around the throne, where it says men from every

00:12:31 tribe, tongue, and nation. And as I've studied a variety of languages, and I've realized there are

00:12:38 certain concepts that one language communicates better than another language. For instance,

00:12:46 Russian does not have a direct object. So you cannot directly translate when Jesus says,

00:12:52 I am the way, the truth, and the life.

00:12:57 So it's a little bit more difficult in Russian to communicate the exclusivity of Christ.

00:13:02 However, you look at other languages are going to be able to communicate something unique

00:13:07 about God that a different language could not.

00:13:11 And I think when we gather around that throne, the myriad of languages, human languages that

00:13:18 are spoken will serve to illustrate facts about God that will even marvel other humans who spoke

00:13:26 other languages and hold up that jewel of God's holiness in a way that a single language would

00:13:32 not have been able to do. I completely agree, and it's funny, though, that you say that because I

00:13:36 just saw on Twitter yesterday someone who I don't even remember his name, but if I did, his name is

00:13:44 not of consequence. I'm not trying to throw him under the bus, but he was arguing with a Christian 0.74

00:13:48 nationalist who was making kind of the similar point that we're making now that Babel was not

00:13:53 a judgment. It was a judgment, but it was not a curse. It was actually discipline. It was God

00:13:58 getting man back on track, right? So in the garden, the dominion mandate, be fruitful, multiply,

00:14:02 that would have included necessarily expansion over the whole face of the earth and in expanding

00:14:08 over the dialects languages cultures everything we've just established well well man was disobeying

00:14:14 god that's what they were doing so they they were uniting and unity is good but the problem is they

00:14:19 literally say let us unite here build this tower not only to ascend to the heavens to be as god

00:14:24 but to make a name for ourselves so for our own glory rather than the glory of god and so that we

00:14:30 will not be scattered over the face of the earth so so we're doing this so that we won't um have

00:14:38 to obey. We won't have to do the very thing that God actually has called us to do. So when God

00:14:42 comes and confuses their languages, which causes them to disperse, it's actually not a curse.

00:14:49 It's not punitive as much as it is disciplinary. It's actually a mercy. It is a judgment. It is

00:14:56 a punishment of sorts, but not punitive as much as it is like the rod for a child, disciplinary,

00:15:02 because it's being used as a catalyst, and that's the mercy component, because their sin

00:15:10 should have cost them centuries. But in God's mercy, he throws in this supernatural catalyst

00:15:15 to get them back on the obedience track much more quickly than they otherwise would.

00:15:19 And so back to the Twitter thing, somebody was making essentially that point, and this guy on

00:15:24 Twitter was saying, a Christian guy, Reformed Baptist guy, a pastor, but he was saying,

00:15:29 no in heaven we'll all speak the same language and the guy countered and said which one which

00:15:35 one's the best like are we all speaking Hebrew is it Latin is it English is it Spanish you know

00:15:39 who wins out who's superior whose language was was the most moral you know and basically you know

00:15:46 asking that like and I don't think we will all speak the same language I think every tongue now

00:15:50 I think I think God will probably throw us a bone and we'll be able to understand other people's

00:15:56 language, whether that's supernatural or just with sin and sin being removed and glorified

00:16:02 bodies, glorified minds, I'll be able to pick up fluent Spanish in a couple of weeks instead of

00:16:09 years. But one way or the other, I think I'll be able to understand everybody either immediately, 0.99

00:16:15 supernaturally, or relatively soon with a glorified mind. But I don't think I'm going

00:16:20 to understand everybody because God just gives us one language. I think the whole idea is that

00:16:24 there are other tribes, other tongues, other cultures, and other skin pigment. There'll be

00:16:32 different shades, different colors. That's okay. That's great. That's better than okay. It's good.

00:16:36 It's wonderful. And getting to conspiracy theories, that's some of the lie of globalism.

00:16:41 So we're going to subsume all these different cultures and these particularities that are good

00:16:47 and right, and they demonstrate the glory of God, his power in making humanity. We're going to

00:16:52 consume them all into a giant consumerist androgynous glob now it's interesting because

00:16:58 it doesn't have to necessarily be a cabal of eight of the most powerful people that have just

00:17:02 unilateral i say goes no matter if i'm in switzerland right a certain economic forum

00:17:09 they could say something and it happens in texas it doesn't necessarily need to be but when there

00:17:14 are tons of different groups and they hate god right they can come together and say you know

00:17:17 globalism, that sounds like a pretty good idea. For one, we can take everything. We can rent it

00:17:23 out on a permanent basis. You'll own nothing, and you'll be happy to not own anything. And the image

00:17:28 of God that, like George Orwell, he talks about it in 1984. He says, imagine a boot on the face

00:17:34 of mankind forever and ever. That's propaganda. That's globalism. That's the continually rewriting

00:17:39 of history. And that's what globalism is, a boot on the face of man and saying, let's subsume

00:17:43 and homogenize all of these different things

00:17:46 that's God made for the purpose of money.

00:17:49 And again, are people literally coming together

00:17:51 and scheming, twiddling their fingers in the back?

00:17:55 Maybe.

00:17:56 Are they very good at it?

00:17:58 I don't think so.

00:17:59 But is that a necessary requirement?

00:18:01 I think that's your point.

00:18:02 So are there eight guys in a room doing this?

00:18:06 I actually lean towards yes.

00:18:08 However, and we'll get to that,

00:18:10 but your question I think is larger than that.

00:18:12 You're saying, but does sin require a cabal?

00:18:16 And the answer is no.

00:18:19 The reality is if, because Jesus said, he did not entrust himself to men for he knew

00:18:24 what was in the hearts of men.

00:18:27 And I think of, it's either 1 or 2 Peter that says, sin, it uses this phrase, sin, which

00:18:33 is common to man.

00:18:35 The reality is that people are unique, tribes and tongues and language are unique, and yet

00:18:39 in one sense people are very similar and one of those ways in which we are similar is when it

00:18:45 comes to sin uh greed is a pretty universal temptation right power um well power is not

00:18:53 inherently wicked in and of itself but uh abuse of power uh for self-gain yeah domination domineering

00:18:59 spirit um lust would be another one like there's a i mean these kind of sins especially if you're

00:19:05 a pastor and you do pastoral counseling, then there comes a certain point where nothing really

00:19:10 surprises you anymore. It's like, you know, somebody comes and it's like, you know, it's like,

00:19:13 okay, it's either marriage problems or it's lust or it's greed or it's slothfulness or, you know,

00:19:21 it's one of these, you know, nobody's that unique of a snowflake, you know, no one else is like me

00:19:28 when it comes to the topic of sin. And so all that being said, if you have a system like globalism

00:19:34 that would at least appear to satisfy

00:19:40 the need for power and greed,

00:19:44 just taking two sins, power again, not a sin,

00:19:47 but the abuse of power and greed.

00:19:49 And it would satisfy,

00:19:50 it's a system that would satisfy that for not,

00:19:53 and that's why in some sense,

00:19:55 I lean away from the eight guys in a room

00:19:56 because that actually would work,

00:19:59 globalism would work out for a lot more than just eight guys,

00:20:01 which is part of the reason why we've been successfully prodded along in that direction

00:20:07 because there there actually is an incentive for enough people not just eight people but a lot of

00:20:12 people uh to where everybody without having to have some global summit in switzerland uh they

00:20:18 can all instinctively just know yeah i want that oh shipping more jobs overseas yep i'm for that

00:20:23 yeah oh yeah uh more more of this less trade tariffs less you know whatever oh yeah i'm for

00:20:28 that it's viable i'm in this serves me it doesn't have to be it serves you know it serves me like

00:20:33 jeff bezos is is an example in terms of uh not necessarily he's a part of the illuminati or

00:20:38 anything like that although who knows but my point is uh you know it's been said jeff jeff bezos

00:20:43 earned his first billion uh but was handed his second and uh and and of course that's you know

00:20:49 it's a generalization so that you can poke some holes in that but the sense is like there is a

00:20:52 real sense in which the dude you know was collecting things in his garage and shipping

00:20:57 them uh you know in the good old days the early days uh-huh and and and did work hard right and

00:21:03 maybe he could have been more fair with this or whatever but he did work um but when covid happened

00:21:07 uh that second billion i mean it doubled amazon's uh amazon's footprint yeah um and and why because

00:21:15 uh because covid and the regulations the levers that were pulled by politicians during uh that

00:21:21 time shut down every brick and mortar mom and pop in-person store to where now unless you were

00:21:28 already there unless you had already arrived at at the the capital and the system and the

00:21:34 organization and the ability the viability to just ship everything from a warehouse without having to

00:21:39 have interaction with people where you can have a guy drive a truck you know and wear gloves and

00:21:43 drop off a box unless you were already there and amazon was already there then you could not

00:21:47 compete and so amazon for the last three years until very recently had no competition um and so

00:21:54 they earned uh their first billion and uh and were handed the next and so my point is if you're

00:22:02 jeff bezos and they're talking about it's 2020 they're talking about covid regulations are you

00:22:07 for them or against them right now you might be for them because you know and everything in your

00:22:13 rhetoric you know publicly you're saying well it's because of physical safety and i don't want

00:22:17 grandma to die and blah blah blah but but do you have at least the the potential of an ulterior

00:22:25 motive yeah yeah pfizer stood to get so many billions like whatever drug manufacturer made

00:22:34 it to the point where they had an approved covid vaccine billions and billions of dollars years

00:22:39 worth of operating expenses so even that factor alone not attributing any malice anything i don't

00:22:43 know even right there you already you don't have incentive or you have the incentive to be like

00:22:49 yeah it's safe let's get this trial done oh they died but maybe we could attribute it to that

00:22:56 right there just on money alone greed in the heart of someone just seeing like because the

00:23:00 governments were going to pay for it governments all over the world were lined up ready to give

00:23:05 and ship cash to these people yeah there didn't have to be a group talking about let's get something

00:23:11 lethal they didn't have to maybe they did maybe they didn't uh greed alone explains um things

00:23:17 like that right it explains it for the companies and then to go one step further it also explains

00:23:21 it in terms of legislation for the politicians if there happen to be several politicians that

00:23:26 are invested in pfizer personally speaking fees consultancy fees oh oh i see so all all that being

00:23:35 said and we got to cut to a commercial real quick but all that being said that gets us into our

00:23:38 three tools for judging conspiracies is one of the questions you should ask when you're considering

00:23:43 a conspiracy is, is there enough people in the world with sin, as Peter says, which is common

00:23:49 to man that would stand to gain in their fleshly desires if this thing panned out? And if the

00:23:59 answer to that is yes, there's a ton of people with this common sin that's common to man that

00:24:07 that if this thing were true, it would, it would fulfill their fleshly desires, not just for eight

00:24:14 people, but for a lot of people, or maybe it is eight people. And in that case, those eight people

00:24:18 must be very powerful people. And if you can answer that question, yes, then I think that

00:24:24 is a conspiracy that might be worth some time exploring because it really does stand a chance

00:24:29 of being true. So we'll come right back, but let's go and cut to a quick commercial.

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00:26:06 all right we are back uh so let me just take a moment before we hop back into our discussion

00:26:13 about judging conspiracies rightly from the word of god i want to give you guys a little bit of

00:26:17 just the vision for this show so the idea is that we're going to be live streaming doing this show

00:26:22 every single week so our our flagship show that we've called theology applied where i interview

00:26:27 somebody and they're piping in remotely uh guys like doug wilson or whoever brian survey um that's

00:26:33 going to continue, but it's going to move from Tuesday, which is historically where we've had it,

00:26:37 to being on Mondays. So we're going to have three shows a week, Monday, Wednesday, Friday,

00:26:42 all at 4 p.m. Central Time. So Monday will be Theology Applied, the interview that I do remotely

00:26:47 with someone every Wednesday, 4 p.m. Central Time, is Theology Applied, the live stream. That's what

00:26:52 we're doing right now. And it's going to be me and Wesley Todd and Michael Belch every single week,

00:26:57 Lord willing, at 4 p.m. Central Time. And part of the reason we're doing this, the strength of

00:27:01 of the live stream is, you know, we've got the guys not just piped in remotely, but in person

00:27:06 in the studio. Um, it allows for a more natural conversation, but it also by being a live stream,

00:27:11 it allows for us to hit some general topics. That's today would be an example that how to

00:27:15 judge a conspiracy, right? We could do that this week or next week or next week or next week.

00:27:19 And that's kind of evergreen. It's, it's always going to be relevant. Um, but, uh, the idea for

00:27:25 the Wednesday show is that at least, you know, part of the time, probably about half the time

00:27:30 would be our goal. We might have something on deck, notes, and plotted out an episode that's

00:27:37 an evergreen type thing, but we're going to drop it last minute because, boom, something that's

00:27:42 relevant for Christians just hit the news the day before, and because we have a live stream,

00:27:48 we can address it in a quick fashion. Whereas Theology Applied the interview, which now will

00:27:54 be on Mondays, and the Friday show, which is going to be called The Friday Special, Theology Applied

00:28:00 the special, those are prerecorded, most of those episodes. And so the Wednesday opportunity with

00:28:06 this live stream, 4 p.m. Central Time, it gives us the opportunity to actually address things that

00:28:13 might have happened just 24 hours before. So we will address some news cycles. But at the same

00:28:19 time, we're not going to sit here and pretend to be the Daily Wire, something that we're not and

00:28:23 something that in that case we don't necessarily want to be. But we're going to do what we feel

00:28:29 that we can speak to.

00:28:30 So there may be a huge news story

00:28:32 that we don't address

00:28:33 because somebody else,

00:28:35 you know, Tucker Carlson

00:28:36 can address it better than we can.

00:28:38 But there may be something else

00:28:39 that drops.

00:28:39 It's like, no, no, no, no, no.

00:28:40 No, this, we've got something

00:28:43 to say about.

00:28:44 The Bible has something very clearly 0.98

00:28:45 and Christians need to know what's up. 1.00

00:28:47 So, all right. 0.98

00:28:48 So all that being said,

00:28:48 back to the conversation.

00:28:50 Three tools for judging.

00:28:52 So let's jump into,

00:28:53 we've kind of alluded to it already,

00:28:54 but the first tool

00:28:55 that we are recommending

00:28:56 if you want to discern

00:28:59 and evaluate conspiracies, and that is, I think I said, don't be an ostrich, don't put your head

00:29:05 in the sand. Don't be a bumblebee just jumping around from flower to flower. Conspiracy to

00:29:10 conspiracy. Yep, yep. Have discernment, right? Have discernment. And I guess before we talk

00:29:16 about discernment, I really want to stress a growing conviction that I have that we as Christians

00:29:22 have an obligation to actually take our heads out of the sand. The times that we live in are

00:29:28 times where um virtue is not praised and and so even before with the remnants of christendom we

00:29:37 had men who perhaps valued honor and truthfulness and um honesty and that is increasingly not the

00:29:46 case and so if christians are not going to bring the truth to bear on society no one else is at

00:29:51 this point very few people are and so as i thought about the bumblebee and the ostrich

00:29:56 I had a special desire to say, we need to bring the truth.

00:30:00 It is appropriate and Christian and part of our mission of the Great Commission to teach our nations, right?

00:30:09 And part of that means teaching them what is true, teaching them how to discern truth, teaching them how to reject falsehood.

00:30:15 And this really is part of Christian duty, not to put a tinfoil hat on, not to be someone who is engaged in, I guess, intentionally inflammatory conspiracies, but some of the things that are going on are inflammatory, are serious, and are the sort of thing that needs to be talked about.

00:30:37 it needs to be exposed yeah christians actually have a biblical uh obligation it's a command

00:30:42 to uh not take part in the deeds done in darkness but rather expose them so we actually have a

00:30:49 biblical command to expose um conspiracies but we also have a biblical command not to hole up in our

00:30:55 home and say there's a line in the streets right uh that's what uh that's not what the fearful

00:30:59 person does that's what the uh lazy person does and he uses fear and conspiracies as an excuse

00:31:06 excuse to actually you know justify uh the fact that you know really what's going on is he just

00:31:11 he doesn't want to go out in the world and and do his job like there may be a man who is failing

00:31:16 his obligations as husband and father uh leading his family in family worship and and uh being a

00:31:22 faithful member in his local church uh because he's online looking at all these conspiracies

00:31:26 and he may you know he may use that verbose language and saying well but there's a lion

00:31:31 in the streets and i've got to expose the lion and blah blah but like it's like well um yeah but

00:31:37 but 17 of those lions out of out of the 18 are actually not real um and uh exposing deeds done

00:31:46 in darkness uh does not trump our other moral obligation which is even higher which is to um

00:31:51 to love our families and provide for our families protect our families you wanted to say something i

00:31:55 think oh it's just that's paul in second corinthians when he enters his letter he's like

00:32:00 we commended ourselves to you as men of sincerity.

00:32:03 We weren't peddlers of God's word.

00:32:04 That's good.

00:32:05 We didn't come to you with flash and with pomp.

00:32:07 We tried to come to you with sincerity, bringing the word of God,

00:32:10 and I'm certain he made sure to insulate himself,

00:32:13 to not be bringing sensational claims back from Jerusalem.

00:32:17 He said, no, we commended to you with honor, and that's a good example.

00:32:22 Yeah, really good.

00:32:23 Michael, could you read some?

00:32:24 You wrote down some questions in preparation for this episode.

00:32:27 So this is still on principle number one.

00:32:28 So if you're keeping count, let me just say all three of them real quick, but we'll finish

00:32:32 on one, then we'll move to two and three.

00:32:34 But all three of them, just so you know, principle number one, do not be gullible and do not

00:32:38 be oblivious, but have discernment.

00:32:41 Principle number two, focus on conspiracies that affect you and your family.

00:32:46 That's so helpful.

00:32:47 Focus on things that actually affect you at home.

00:32:50 And then principle number three, learn to think.

00:32:52 Logic, reason, right?

00:32:55 It's almost like number three is like if you, you know, the old illustration that's used

00:32:58 a lot of, if you know how to detect a real dollar, then you can find the counterfeits.

00:33:04 So again, principle number one, do not be gullible, do not be oblivious, have discernment.

00:33:10 So the first principle, don't be naive, don't be gullible.

00:33:13 Second principle, focus on conspiracies that affect you and your family, conspiracies that

00:33:18 hit close to home.

00:33:19 Third principle, learn to think, learn logic and reason.

00:33:23 So all that being said, still back with the first principle about not being naive and gullible, you wrote down some questions.

00:33:30 You said, here are some helpful questions that can help Christians evaluate what they are being told, whether or not this should fall into the fake conspiracy box or something evil is really going on.

00:33:42 Right. And one of the big aha moments for me, and actually, Joel, you said this a while ago, is that it's okay and even good to use, as it were, common sense to root things out, right?

00:33:58 And so these questions, you're not going to find necessarily a Bible verse for them, but they are common sense and knowing the nature of man principles that will help us evaluate whether there's something to this conspiracy theory.

00:34:11 So the first one is what motives might be involved?

00:34:15 And we kind of talked about this with Amazon or Pfizer.

00:34:18 Are there motives that could lead someone

00:34:20 or a group of people to take advantage of the situation?

00:34:22 Right, which doesn't guarantee

00:34:23 that there's something nefarious happening,

00:34:26 but it says the likelihood is higher.

00:34:29 Yep, yep.

00:34:29 The second one is what larger pattern of events is going on?

00:34:35 Does the emergence of,

00:34:38 or would Amazon be incentivized

00:34:42 to have fewer retailers?

00:34:45 Is there an election going on?

00:34:46 Is there a resurgence of conservatism globally?

00:34:48 Do we need to shut that down?

00:34:50 Is there a bigger pattern going on

00:34:52 that this fits into?

00:34:54 And number three,

00:34:58 who is the one spreading the particular narrative?

00:35:01 Who is the one spreading the particular narrative?

00:35:04 Read that, for instance.

00:35:05 For instance, during COVID, Amazon supported lockdowns, Pfizer pushed vaccines.

00:35:10 Did they stand to gain from those narratives?

00:35:12 This was not just some guy in his basement saying, oh, there's this virus.

00:35:18 There were powerful players who stood to gain and were in some ways interconnected.

00:35:24 So with whatever the latest big news is, who's pushing it?

00:35:28 Yep.

00:35:30 What do they stand to gain if what they're pushing actually turns out to be true?

00:35:34 Yep.

00:35:35 what would they stand against so if it's like hey the bubonic plague is happening and everyone in

00:35:40 the world is going to die unless you get the vaccine well who's saying that oh the vaccine

00:35:44 company right and all the politicians that are invested in that vaccine and their stock okay

00:35:50 well that again doesn't necessitate that it's a lie but it should you know that should ding our

00:35:56 radar a little bit and then what's the larger pattern um well it's um is it uh 2020 and it

00:36:04 happens to be an election year with the most contentious president ever you know uh at least

00:36:09 in the last you know 50 years the red hot economy that a lot of people wanted to see derail yeah

00:36:14 right because that economy was going to be the horse that he was going to ride into the second

00:36:17 term like oh okay so that like that should cause you to to stop and and think a lot you know like

00:36:24 um that yeah that should cause you to now after i wrote this actually wes and i were talking and

00:36:28 we came up with the fourth one that that was so good that i wanted to share it so i'm going to

00:36:32 read it, but I want you to expand on it, if you would. So the fourth way to evaluate, to have

00:36:37 discernment, in our time in particular, okay, in our time in particular, is who or what is being

00:36:43 mocked or laughed at. Because we live in a time, well, when righteousness prevails,

00:36:50 wickedness will be mocked and laughed at. But when wickedness and unrighteousness prevail,

00:36:56 then evil men will laugh at and will mock and will try and get you to have a feeling

00:37:02 of revulsion for what is good and right. And so we feel like in this time that we live in,

00:37:08 you need to look at what is being mocked, who is asking you to mock it, and where do they stand on

00:37:13 the morality spectrum. And I think that you had some really good insights on that.

00:37:17 Yeah. So a great example would be late night shows. So Stephen Colbert, John Oliver,

00:37:21 they're very carefully, this isn't my insight, this is someone else's, but they're very carefully

00:37:25 programmed to give you a little snippet of facts. So 10, 20 seconds of information and overview on

00:37:30 the topic and then it's some type of punchline so if you have john oliver talking about homeschooling

00:37:34 gives like an example you know like a family doing a quirky reciting the alphabet and then he pulls

00:37:39 up their example of the guy that they would hate their coastal elites this is the midwest guy who

00:37:44 pulled his children out of school because he's like i don't like the instruction coming from

00:37:48 teachers on sensitive topics that are inappropriate for children and just laughed at them and it

00:37:53 repeats over and over and over again to the point that you should you are being programmed you are

00:37:58 being instructed it's being demonstrated you should laugh at these people can you believe 1.00

00:38:03 there are idiots out there not getting the vaccine go have your horse paced and die again and again 1.00

00:38:09 and again and so when you see like these people are being laughed at you're being told by pundits 1.00

00:38:13 you're being told by news mock these people laugh them hold laugh at them hold them with derision

00:38:17 exactly wait we live in a time that upholds wickedness and pushes down righteousness so

00:38:22 is what i'm hearing an actual mockery that should be coming towards wickedness or are they actually

00:38:28 making fun of the righteous. Or at the very least, I was going to say to point two, it's a lot easier

00:38:33 to not jump into first than to jump in and get yourself out. If you got COVID wrong and maybe

00:38:38 shut down whatever would be your business or what have you, repentance is the way out. And repentance

00:38:45 is painful. God would rather obedience rather than sacrifice. And we can repent. We can get out of it.

00:38:50 But it is a lot easier to just pause. Let's take a second. Hang on. Then to jump in, to want to be

00:38:57 popular to want to go on the march for blm and then later on the videos are coming out and you've

00:39:01 got to do the hard work of swallowing your pride and repenting of it right no that's really good

00:39:07 so so what's being mocked who's doing the mocking who's being mocked um but then with that i think

00:39:14 uh considering like degrees you know so it's like uh because you know there's always going to be a

00:39:19 late night show comedy is there's always going to be that in any society any culture there's going

00:39:24 to be some kind of entertainment comedic um you know out output and so somebody's going to fulfill

00:39:30 that role but but i think you know the question to consider is um are they making fun of the same

00:39:35 thing in the same group again and again and again um are the jokes even good or is this like a

00:39:42 comedic guy who's who's literally not even making a joke um you know like the blinking lights you

00:39:48 know with his live audience are saying laugh or we'll shoot you in the head laugh laugh dance

00:39:53 monkey dance you know like this is funny you will laugh you know like that's john oliver like john

00:39:57 oliver hasn't made a joke in 20 years like that dude's not funny you know like and so so if it's

00:40:03 like every single episode you know for three weeks straight the audience is you know you you can't

00:40:10 see them you know but there's you know guys you know john oliver's goons point pointing guns at

00:40:15 their heads forcing them to laugh because it's not even funny but it's then it's like okay there

00:40:19 might be something here you know so i think it's like you know who who's making fun who's doing the

00:40:24 mocking who's being mocked but also how desperate that that's what i'm getting at is how desperate

00:40:30 um is this group and and saying we've got about because it's one thing if you just do a one-off

00:40:35 joke right but it's another if saturday night live does a sketch and then another sketch and

00:40:40 then another sketch and because then you you might say either this is comedic gold there's only

00:40:46 really again you know so getting them back to motives this is either comedic gold or there's

00:40:51 an agenda yeah yeah and when the comedy that's hap air quotes uh is aligning with the other three

00:40:59 that we said is it aligning with the um the seeming motives and narrative and things like

00:41:06 that coming from government and big tech and all these things now all of a sudden you you start to

00:41:11 that the mockery is actually not so much to,

00:41:15 the case has kind of been won by that point.

00:41:17 It is to teach us how to treat those who disagree.

00:41:22 Well, that's what's so hard, I think, about conspiracies

00:41:25 is conspiracies are in our day and age

00:41:27 are gonna be primarily pushed by media.

00:41:29 It's gonna be Hollywood, it's gonna be actors,

00:41:33 it's gonna be shows, it's gonna be talk hosts,

00:41:34 it's gonna be, so it's gonna be people in media.

00:41:39 and one you know in asking that question of like are is it the possibility of a serious ulterior

00:41:44 motive well one serious ulterior motive for media to push a conspiracy that the conspiracy having

00:41:51 something to do with danger you know or fear or uh threat or what um well one constant ulterior

00:41:58 motive that they have is if more people stay home they watch more stuff you know you know i mean

00:42:04 like what do people do during covet you think that you know i mean like how did that work out

00:42:08 from amazon and then you order amazon and you watch tv like what you know and so like whereas

00:42:15 if everything's fine if there is no line in the street as proverbs you know talks about if there

00:42:20 is no line in the street you know where people go in the street right yeah they go to work they go

00:42:25 on maybe they go on a cruise or a vacation they do something besides just watching uh television

00:42:31 so the media which is one of the chief um groups responsible for pushing conspiracies always has

00:42:37 an underlining motive in pushing conspiracies that threaten people's safety because if people's

00:42:43 safety is threatened they stay at home and at home they consume media you know so that like

00:42:49 i think that's a constant thing that we're battling that there's you know there's always

00:42:53 so it you know it always could be true you know on on the motive basis all right so we should move

00:42:59 on to principle number two number two uh focus on conspiracies that affect you and your family

00:43:03 and really specifically that affect the spheres of responsibility and duty that God has given to

00:43:09 you. I don't mean just, you know, you and your two kids at home, you and your wife and your two kids

00:43:14 at home, although that's a big part of it. But also, you know, you're called, if you're a man

00:43:18 and you're out in the workplace, you're called to work. So if there's a conspiracy threatening to

00:43:22 shut that down, or your neighbor, your literal neighbor, right? So the conspiracies that affect

00:43:28 your ability and your family's ability to carry out the duties that god has given to you need to

00:43:34 be investigated first because those though we have to we have to be honest like when churches closed

00:43:41 for more than a little while that was sinful yeah that conspiracy tricked otherwise up to that

00:43:48 point godly men and pastors and elders and deacons as far as we knew and they bought into it and that

00:43:54 caused them and their congregations to sin, right? And so the conspiracies that threaten

00:44:00 to pull you from your duty of building God's kingdom, and I don't mean just in a spiritual

00:44:04 sense, but of carrying out your duty towards God need to be investigated before who shot JFK.

00:44:11 Right. And that's a great example. There are a million different conspiracies you can get

00:44:17 totally lost on YouTube or Reddit or whatever, I don't know, whatever the cool kids are looking

00:44:21 at today, totally lost and, and, you know, waste your life. You can waste your whole life, you

00:44:26 know, looking into the Illuminati or, you know, but the question is like, what's affected, you

00:44:30 know, so with COVID and shutting out churches, it's like, well, my, my wife and kids can't go

00:44:34 to church today. Okay. Well, that's, that's one to get to the bottom of BLM. I think, you know,

00:44:40 DEI, diversity, equity, inclusion. You know, I think that's worth looking at if you work for a

00:44:46 big company and, and you're trying to provide for your family and leave generational wealth,

00:44:51 right a wise man or a good man proverb says leaves an inheritance for his children's children yes

00:44:55 that's a spiritual inheritance it can be nothing less but oh i believe it is more and so you're

00:45:00 seeking to do that and you're getting constantly passed up at work and you you'd start to notice

00:45:06 you can't help but notice that the last 10 guys that have been promoted instead of you all happen

00:45:10 to not be white or not male or not heterosexual well that actually does affect you that actually

00:45:17 And so to be involved with that particular conspiracy of the DEI woke agenda, yeah, that actually, that's not just losing yourself in an obsessive capacity about something that's random or irrelevant.

00:45:34 No, that actually is affecting you.

00:45:35 It's affecting your neighbor.

00:45:36 And it sure is going to affect your kids. 0.52

00:45:38 If you've got little white kids, those little white kids, I mean, I've got white kids. 0.76

00:45:43 And they're not going to stand a chance if the world keeps heading the direction that it's going. 0.87

00:45:49 So I'm encouraged when Gay, the professor, which is just perfect.

00:45:55 I love that her name's Gay. 0.98

00:45:57 But like with Andrew Isker, the fake and gay of Trash World, it's like, now you can just call it Gay. 0.98

00:46:03 Because Gay, the actual person, this former head of Harvard, turns out is also fake and plagiarized. 0.99

00:46:10 So fake and gay is really just gay. 0.99

00:46:12 is personified in a person and now has a picture. Praise God. So it makes things easy. But the point 1.00

00:46:17 is that when she was dethroned by like Rufo and all these, like, I'm grateful for that because

00:46:23 it's not just a random who shot JFK. That is a sign of truth winning the day. That's a sign of

00:46:32 advancement and productivity that says my kids might actually stand a chance at getting into

00:46:40 school. My kids might actually be able to get hired, that we might go back to merit. And merit

00:46:49 is what Christians want because Christians, if they're faithful Christians, merit is our friend

00:46:55 because we're not afraid of work. I want merit because I plan to work hard at shaping my children

00:47:02 like arrows, to be sharp, to be straight. And so merit is the friend of my children. Sinful

00:47:10 partiality is not the friend of my children. Not virtuous. There's a strain too of evangelicalism.

00:47:16 There's an influence of pietism in it, but it's very functionally Gnostics when we think about

00:47:20 conspiracies that affect the body and the health. There can be a huge amount of putting your head

00:47:24 in the sand. Just to give an example, fluoride is generally added to the water supply, the FDA

00:47:30 and the CDC, they would say like 0.7 milligrams is a safe amount. It's supposedly to prevent

00:47:35 cavities. Well, fluoride is a neurotoxin. The Lancet, one of the most prestigious medical

00:47:39 journals in the world is like, yeah, this is actually neurotoxic. Now you can get a filter

00:47:44 for your home. You can get a filter for your faucet. Look up if your city, I filter it at the

00:47:49 garage. I filter it at the sink, run the cup through a sieve. No. But if I was to tell you

00:47:54 that and say, hey, this should be something to consider. You don't have a well, you're on city

00:47:57 water it somehow comes up and you were to say i don't care that's dereliction if you're a father

00:48:03 or even a mother to say this could be affecting my kids uh this could be a problem and i don't

00:48:07 even care enough to look into it that's not even saying like you have to believe this you have to

00:48:11 take action but hey uh this could be going on and you say we got to care about holiness brother

00:48:17 we've seen that a lot recently of like well no men shouldn't be strong or women shouldn't pursue

00:48:21 beauty uh we should just pursue godliness and holiness don't dress well don't get guns don't

00:48:25 work out don't like right why because give all your money away right because your future isn't

00:48:30 your treasure is in heaven yeah yeah uh-huh yeah but i i also um i treasure christ most of all

00:48:36 uh but i that doesn't mean that i treasure nothing else i treasure my wife also i treasure my kids

00:48:41 also they have to live here for a while i have to live here but my children lord willing will

00:48:45 live here even longer than me um i i remember you know when i you know well i'll say it like this

00:48:52 um did you ever did you ever meet that guy you know who who um who was like kind of like a rough

00:48:58 and tumble dude who had like you know tattooed you know uh moderation is for cowards you know

00:49:03 like that kind of right well that's like sounds really good and i had a season of life you know

00:49:08 years ago where i thought hey that makes sense and i get that and um but then you know what one

00:49:12 bible verse and there's several but one that just kind of breaks breaks that notion is um physical

00:49:18 training is of some value. And so what I think the pietist does is they say that personal

00:49:25 practices of piety are of infinite value, eternal value, and they are. But then they say,

00:49:33 and by consequence, everything else is of no value. But the Apostle Paul doesn't speak in

00:49:38 those terms. He doesn't say that worldly things are of no value, but heavenly things are of

00:49:44 ultimate value. In fact, the word worldliness, which is used in a negative sense, is a total

00:49:50 different way than many of the Christian nationalists or post-millennial guys would

00:49:55 be using the term today. When we say worldly, we're not talking about the boastful pride of life,

00:50:00 the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes. That's the way 1 John is speaking of worldliness.

00:50:05 When we say that we love the world, well, there's another guy who loved the world,

00:50:09 john 3 16 for god so love the world um and and and yes that means people um but it also means

00:50:17 the cosmos his creation which he said is good and so we're saying no we care about the world and

00:50:23 we're not just going to give it away to our enemies because we have our pie in the sky

00:50:28 somewhere else that's why we're losing that's that's a major factor for why we're losing

00:50:32 nihilism pessimism um all these things which i think come from dispensationalism i think it

00:50:39 comes from premillennialism. I think it comes from, you know, pietism, just this, it's, we've 0.52

00:50:45 got to shift from that. So all that back to the physical training. The Bible, that's just one

00:50:50 example, and there are others, but just one example. Paul doesn't say spiritual training

00:50:55 is of infinite value and physical training is vain. Nope. Nope. Said the Bible, never. Physical

00:51:01 training, it's, and Paul admits it has, it is, it is not comparable to spiritual training.

00:51:06 it's not on the same uh level it's not but that doesn't mean that it has no value and that's i'll

00:51:12 be honest that's hard uh for me because what i want to do is i want to pick the three things that

00:51:17 that uh matter most and do all of those things and nothing else you know what i mean but that's

00:51:23 not actually the way god constructed human life there are actually a lot of things with triage

00:51:30 with like with varying degrees of value and so it takes discernment and wisdom to live

00:51:35 well in the world. And some of those virtues enable other virtues. Like I want to, by God's

00:51:40 grace, live a long life to be 80 years old and able still to see and to play with my great

00:51:46 grandchildren. I'm going to have to get into some off the beaten path material just to try to

00:51:50 understand how to order my diet, not take the exercise advice. That's all out there. That's

00:51:54 common. Andrew Isker's book, The Boniface Option, is a great source of him saying like, hey,

00:51:59 you know, maybe fast food and the XXL fries baked in seed oil, these aren't good for you.

00:52:05 You're told that they are, but they're not.

00:52:07 And if you want to live a good long life, which I think is a noble aspiration, you're

00:52:11 going to have to go off the beaten path and take a little bit of ownership for it too.

00:52:14 And the question is why?

00:52:16 It's always why.

00:52:17 So I want to live a long life.

00:52:19 Why?

00:52:19 Because my treasure is here on earth and I have no hope for after I die.

00:52:23 Okay, well, that's bad.

00:52:24 But if it's like, no, I want to live a long, like I remember my dad telling me this, you

00:52:28 know, and I've heard other guys say it as well, but I just, it was so, so encouraging.

00:52:31 my dad who who has been a faithful father and a faithful husband for decades and decades um i

00:52:37 remember him saying you know joel one of my life goals is to outlive your mom and the reason why

00:52:41 is so that he could care for her as she's dying wow that's good okay so the question is why so

00:52:47 if the why is well i just i want to live forever you know and and attain to transhumanism and

00:52:52 upload my consciousness to you know to minecraft and walk around you know whatever in the cloud 0.87

00:52:57 you know like well okay well then that's demonic that's that's stupid but if it's not i want to 0.89

00:53:01 live a long time because i want to play with my great grandkids and be able to disciple them 0.98

00:53:05 and invest in their life or i want to outlive my wife so that i care for her as she's dying

00:53:10 instead of her caring for me um that well that's godly that is that is piety sounds like how paul

00:53:17 said it's better for me to stay right for your sake for you and because of that uh knowing that

00:53:22 i'm convinced that i will remain at least for a while longer so those are good things same with

00:53:27 money so like right now we're talking about uh health but think about that so here's part of

00:53:32 the problem i'll just say john piper love him um and he has helped me tremendously i learned so much

00:53:38 over the years from john piper but i do think that there's a certain point where you can attack

00:53:43 the prosperity gospel um it's so extremely that you actually embrace a poverty gospel right and

00:53:50 And so, like, because what we've been talking about with the long life kind of thing and what food you eat and working out, physical training of some value, not no value, but some value, all that is in the health category, right?

00:54:00 Well, you only need two more categories to complete the prosperity gospel lie, which really is a lie, health, wealth, and, you know, healthy, wealthy, and wise, you know?

00:54:09 And, yeah, like living for those things as the ultimate end, yeah, is terrible.

00:54:16 but but um but wanting to be healthy is not inherently bad and likewise so if while we're

00:54:22 at it health and wealth i think that's worth talking about as well like are there actually

00:54:27 uh pious motives godly motives for wanting to attain financial wealth in this life i the answer

00:54:35 is undoubtedly yes yes and then power power is the same thing conservative this is why we always

00:54:41 lose and christians are are christians make conservatives actually look good with this

00:54:46 sadly but uh christians actually think that the goal is you know well the wicked are the ones who

00:54:52 are exercising power they're the ones who are you know doing this and doing that and so what we're

00:54:56 going to do is forsake power theology of the cross i'm like like this you know the theology of the

00:55:02 cross theology of suffering it's like yeah that's part of the gospel stories take up your cross and

00:55:07 follow me that's part of the story but it's like they forget that like he was dead for 72 hours

00:55:12 that's it and that now he lives forever more i mean jesus was dead for 72 hours then he took

00:55:18 his life back up again and not only that but then was glorified and ascended to the right hand of

00:55:25 god the father almighty and said even before his ascension all authority on earth and in heaven

00:55:31 has been given to me so he forsook power and authority unto uh even unto death even death

00:55:37 on a cross philippians 2 right the emptying of himself not kenosis theology but the emptying

00:55:43 of himself taking the form of a man and being willing to die even death on a cross a humiliating

00:55:47 death and and all of that for approximately 72 hours yeah and if we include you know the

00:55:52 humiliation of christ and his his earthly ministry and being mocked and those things leading up his

00:55:56 mock trial then okay we could even say years okay years but then he he rose he rose from the grave

00:56:03 he took all power and authority back up and ascended to the right hand of the father and

00:56:06 he's been doing that for 2 000 years and he did those things in order to gain that that's right

00:56:12 that position and that uh status and then paul even says that who would suffer with him if not

00:56:17 to reign to reign with him yeah like that's that's part of it and that reigning sure like i can just

00:56:23 here the pietists watching you know saying like it's a rain but not now never here like you reign

00:56:29 spiritually later once you're dead you reign in the 17th dimension where it doesn't matter

00:56:35 that's where you reign um no uh that will happen that will happen and even then it will actually

00:56:41 matter it won't be the 17th dimension it'll be heaven come to earth yeah but uh but we also

00:56:45 reign now like you you good biblical theology that keeps with christian history that's not

00:56:51 just a post-war consensus that people came up with, you know, 15 minutes ago. That kind of

00:56:55 theology, it's going to include polycarp and, you know, being eaten by lions or drawn and quartered, 0.78

00:57:02 torn apart, beheaded, burned at the stake. It's going to, the blood of the, you know,

00:57:08 the blood of the martyrs is the seedbed for the church. All that is true. If your theology does

00:57:11 not include that, and even at some level rightly emphasize that, then you don't have biblical

00:57:16 theology um but your theology must also so we're not saying this instead of that as a substitute

00:57:22 we're saying this and that your theology must encompass a theology of suffering in the cross

00:57:27 and the martyrs you got to be able to do something with 2 000 years of church history and martyrs

00:57:31 you also need to be able to do something with constantine and charlemagne charlemagne and

00:57:36 richard the lionheart duke gregory and that you got to be you know all the other guys and

00:57:40 defenders of the west you got to be able to do something with that too yep besides just condemn 0.94

00:57:47 it as an ignorant libtard that's never read anything about the crusades and just says they're 0.94

00:57:53 bad because someone told me they were bad right which is what we kind of all do that's kind of a 0.99

00:57:58 conspiracy we kind of all do that until you read pill and you start actually reading well think

00:58:02 about right 40 years of public schools like the crusades were bad yep and and now that's just the

00:58:08 zeitgeist say well we have you know muslim extremism we have christian extremism too 0.76

00:58:14 and so really same thing we got to give up the power if we overuse it we could end up with the 0.98

00:58:19 crusades again well hopefully many aspects of it like that would be a good thing to see um christianity

00:58:26 established in europe in the west yep and part of part of is the third way ism where you make uh you

00:58:32 make two fallible individuals or parties or whatever uh you make them equally fallible right

00:58:39 when in reality it's not that simple it's actually much more complex uh there are multiple very it's

00:58:45 a multi-variant you know uh equation and so like you know i remember uh tim keller would do that

00:58:51 with um democrats and republicans you know jesus isn't on the right he's not on the left uh but 0.95

00:58:56 and and that's true in a sense i mean republicans suck you know i i say it like this you know we 0.99

00:59:00 have two parties one is way made up of sinister wicked men and the other one is made up of of 1.00

00:59:05 demons you know so that's republicans wicked men demons they're not even human at this point that's 0.80

00:59:10 democrats and so you know but they're both bad but notice in my little you know funny illustration 0.95

00:59:15 they're not equally bad right wicked men are still an improvement from spawn of satan um you know and

00:59:22 so um what keller he didn't say this but what it did often he wouldn't necessarily explicitly say

00:59:28 but what it did is a lot of people picked up that rhetoric and they decided well jesus isn't on the

00:59:32 right or the left but then what they implicitly took from that is that jesus is equally distanced

00:59:37 from the right as he is from the left which means that both the right and the left are equally

00:59:42 unbiblical equally apart from uh the way of jesus you can do that with the crusades right so like

00:59:48 and reading about the crusades some of the later crusades especially um some of those i think i

00:59:53 think there actually were some sinful motives involved and and there was you know ways where

00:59:57 they really weren't keeping in with the standards of just war theory and those kind of, but a lot

01:00:01 of them were. A lot of them. The earlier ones, especially. The earlier ones, especially when

01:00:05 it's like the main reason they're going in is not just to capture the Holy Land, but it's to go and 0.88

01:00:09 save Christian women that are being raped, you know? And so, you know, and all their Christians 0.98

01:00:14 that have been beheaded and they're going to, you know, to exonerate them. And so all that being 0.98

01:00:18 said, there were sins on, because you're talking about two, you're talking about people. So in

01:00:23 both cases muslims and christians they're fallible however the problem is one of the techniques is 0.99

01:00:29 that people go in they'll say well well uh both are fallible and and then implicitly or sometimes 0.72

01:00:34 just it's outright said they're equally infallible right um now the muslims and christians were not 0.92

01:00:40 equally infallible that's a joke right yeah the the christians were fallible men but many of them 1.00

01:00:46 regenerate who love the lord and many of their leaders and then the muslims were terrible their 1.00

01:00:51 entire fortunes yep yeah literally gave it as an act by the time they got to the war they had given 0.99

01:00:56 it along the way to all these villages and all yeah it's insane richard the lion heart i'm i'm

01:01:03 convinced he you know if they're if they're if what we do in this earth you know uh does accumulate

01:01:08 rewards in heaven and one of those rewards is is your seating distance from the throne how close

01:01:12 you get to be to christ uh richard the lion heart i think is going to be like front row seats and

01:01:17 so far that i'm i'm gonna have to bust out binoculars just to be able hey richard you know

01:01:22 because i'm gonna be so far back you know i'm here too me and you we both did it you know we did it

01:01:28 you had the heart of a lion i had the heart of kind of like a domestic house cat but the same

01:01:32 kind of feline family you know so anyways all right so anything else on principle two the things

01:01:37 that affect your family because that was so good michael to say not all right not just conspiracies

01:01:42 in general because there's a million of them so how do i narrow it down well what stand the chance

01:01:46 it being true because it's with powerful people that actually have an ulterior motive that was

01:01:49 number one and then number two is uh which conspiracy uh is affecting my wife right my kids

01:01:55 well and that actually leads me to the part that's really going to get us in hot water here but

01:01:59 uh interestingly the first conspiracy that i can find in the bible is conspiracy theory i should

01:02:06 say is when the serpent convinced eve that the godhead had conspired against her to keep her

01:02:14 from wisdom. And she fell to that false conspiracy theory. And so the last thing that I wanted to say

01:02:22 about this point is sometimes the conspiracies that hit closest to home, whether there's actual

01:02:29 harm and you need to guard against it, or this is a deceitful conspiracy that we're falling into,

01:02:35 sometimes our wives are going to be the most prone to fall into those conspiracies, the lies 1.00

01:02:40 that are told them from the world.

01:02:43 And so in the same way that husbands,

01:02:45 we have an obligation to protect our wives and our families,

01:02:50 we have an obligation to protect in this area as well,

01:02:53 guarding them, keeping them in truth,

01:02:55 instructing, listening to them.

01:02:57 Yes, a woman's intuition is wonderful and inexplicable.

01:03:00 And there was one time when my son had a tonsillectomy 0.96

01:03:06 and he was home and just that afternoon,

01:03:09 she said we need to make sure we go to the store and get ice okay go get some ice she comes home

01:03:15 that night his his scabs split open and he's bleeding all over the place the way to deal

01:03:20 with that is to put ice on the back of the neck and before that afternoon we didn't have any ice

01:03:24 in the after in the house right you know so there is a sense where woman's intuition we should we

01:03:29 should listen to and heed especially if you're married but we have an obligation as men as

01:03:33 husbands to protect from lies and to help our families walk in truth amen all right well let's

01:03:39 take a moment real quick, and then we'll pick up with the third principle, which is one of the

01:03:43 easiest ways to tell a counterfeit is if you familiarize yourself with the real thing. So

01:03:47 learning to think, using reason, using logic in a biblical way. But real quick, let's go ahead and

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01:05:11 be 18 years of age or older to enter, and only one email per person can be entered into this

01:05:19 giveaway drawing. All right, so here we are. We're going to go ahead and land the plane now

01:05:24 with principle number three. So if you've been with us this whole time, three tools for rightly

01:05:30 judging conspiracies. The first one was don't be naive. Look at motives. Does a group of people,

01:05:37 powerful people, or enough people, just a lot of people stand something to gain if they push this

01:05:43 certain agenda? That might lend towards it, a conspiracy being true. Number two was you can

01:05:48 give your whole life away looking into a million different conspiracies, but we do actually have

01:05:53 as Christians an obligation, especially as men, to expose the deeds done in darkness and to protect

01:05:58 our wives and children. So the second principle when judging conspiracies is, does this conspiracy

01:06:03 hit home? Does it affect me, my wife, my children? And then the last one, the last tool for rightly

01:06:09 judging conspiracies is that we need to learn how to think, familiarize ourselves with the authentic

01:06:15 article, like a dollar bill, and then we'll be able to recognize the counterfeits. We need reason

01:06:20 than logic. I was really struck as I was reading some of this book by Isaac Watts, which is just

01:06:27 called Logic. And he says in the introduction to his book, he says, logic or reasoning,

01:06:34 the ability to think is the cultivation of our reason by which we are better enabled to

01:06:39 distinguish good from evil, as well as truth from falsehood. And both these are matters of

01:06:45 the highest importance, whether we regard this life or the life to come. As it regulates our

01:06:51 judgment and our reasoning, so it secures us from mistakes. Reasoning, logic keeps us from mistakes

01:06:57 and gives us, this is startling to some of the pietists, it gives us a true and certain knowledge 0.87

01:07:04 of things. And it furnishes us with a method so that it makes our knowledge of things both easy 0.87

01:07:09 and regular, it guards our thoughts from confusion. And there was a way of ordering thought and life

01:07:17 that emerged out of Christendom, which in and of itself was a safeguard in some ways against

01:07:23 conspiracy, against false thinking, against error of action and of thought that we frankly have

01:07:30 lost. And I think there's, you know, to jump into conspiracies, you think of the way that the

01:07:36 United States public education system has devolved under Dewey and progressive methodologies since

01:07:43 then. And of course, it's designed to not teach us to think, to not teach us truth, to not teach

01:07:48 us virtue, but to teach us to take what we're told and to have no ability to evaluate them or hold

01:07:55 them up to the light and discern them, whether they be right or wrong. Right. Part of what you're

01:08:00 talking about right now is just being generalist. You cannot be an expert at everything. You can be

01:08:05 an expert in one thing maybe if you're incredibly gifted and talented for the record we need

01:08:11 those we need christians who are experts in vaccinology or in monetary policy or in all

01:08:16 of these things we do because right now we don't have them yep um and i'm not saying there's not

01:08:20 an individual christian out there that is an expert in a particular medical field what i'm

01:08:23 saying is that um all of our experts at least overall have discredited themselves we don't

01:08:29 trust them anymore so we've lost the media experts we've lost medical experts we've lost

01:08:33 political experts we like um from from uh the white house from from politicians to uh medicine

01:08:39 to media uh to uh certainly academia that would be another like at every single level

01:08:45 are institutions institutions are you would expect the the premier leaders of institutions

01:08:51 that's where you'll find your experts um and and all that is crumbling right now um and so we do

01:08:57 need institution i don't think a society especially as large as ours is uh societies actually

01:09:03 because there's a temptation in me as a conservative biblical Christian to just

01:09:06 cheer on the destruction of our institutions because they're all so corrupt. So I'm glad

01:09:10 that they're falling, and I really am. But there's a hubris, I think, if the Christian's 1.00

01:09:15 not careful to say, yeah, good riddance, we don't need Harvard. No, we need a Harvard. 1.00

01:09:19 We need institutions. I'm grateful for Nate Fisher and Josh Attaboy and those guys that are like

01:09:26 Abattoi, sorry, Attaboy. Those guys who are building institutions like New Founding,

01:09:31 they're working on it. That's why we're, you know, even with right response, it could just be

01:09:35 a webcam and it's just Joel, you know, like you don't have to build a team. You don't have to

01:09:39 invite other people on. You don't have to have a ministry name and, you know, and actually have,

01:09:43 you know, all that, you know, I have a board with right response that holds us accountable.

01:09:47 You don't have to do all that. Why do that? Why not just, you know, I mean, a phone is powerful

01:09:51 enough. I can just put my phone up and record videos and drop them on Twitter. But what I'm

01:09:54 trying to do is build an institution because we need institutions and institutions traditionally

01:09:59 carry a sense of trustworthiness, credibility, and that instinct is right. It's actually not

01:10:06 good for society, the place that we currently rest, where institutions right now, when you

01:10:10 hear the word institution, your first inclination is distrust. That's not a good thing. That's not

01:10:16 winning. Exactly. That's massively problematic. But right now, though, I think, so yes, let's

01:10:21 rebuild institutions, Christian, biblical institutions, but we also do need that your

01:10:26 every man, your everyday Christian does need to be a generalist. He may never be an expert in any 0.53

01:10:32 field, but he should be able to be a generalist who generally knows logic, knows reason, knows

01:10:37 how to think. And that does apply to something, just to bring it home to a practical example,

01:10:42 something like COVID. I remember people, and this was Christians, arguing with me like,

01:10:46 well, you're not an expert, you're not an epidemiologist. And I remember saying, well,

01:10:49 I don't have to be, because my argument isn't on the basis of epidemiology. My argument,

01:10:55 And you know, here's how I know it was right.

01:10:58 Well, I've known it was right for three years.

01:11:01 But if it wasn't apparent enough, it became very apparent when Francis Collins, who was

01:11:06 supposed to be an expert and a Christian, just recently came out and said, whoopsies,

01:11:11 you know, so we missed a few things.

01:11:13 And then he goes on to list it.

01:11:14 You know, we were looking at like densely populated cities like New York.

01:11:18 You know, we weren't thinking about how this would affect, you know, a rural place.

01:11:21 about everything that he says is things that i was saying in april of 2020 um you know why because

01:11:27 you don't have to be francis collins you don't have to be an expert in a particular field to

01:11:32 realize those things because they're no duh things yeah we need some more no duh christians and i

01:11:37 think that's what a generalist is a generalist is able to just look at the lay it could we could be

01:11:42 talking uh plagues you know um or wannabe plagues you know or we could be talking politics or we

01:11:48 could be talking academic but a generalist is able uh he's just got a good bs detector he's able 0.96

01:11:54 to just in general say no that's dumb that's dumb well why is it dumb you're not an expert on this 0.98

01:12:01 well it's dumb for these very practical reasons people will be trained by some institution it's 0.98

01:12:06 not like well we can have these institutions and or we could not and people could be taught to be 0.91

01:12:11 think things the wrong way or they could be neutral or we could do the hard work of teaching

01:12:14 them. And C.S. Lewis, he does a great job

01:12:16 in Abolition of Man because he points

01:12:18 out how modern textbooks, when they say,

01:12:20 don't say the waterfall is beautiful, say

01:12:22 I simply perceive the waterfall is beautiful.

01:12:24 You're dumbing man down. And then he says, when the

01:12:26 propagandist comes, the hard

01:12:28 heart dulled to nature and to natural

01:12:30 affections and to seeing beauty and a

01:12:32 soft head hasn't been trained in rigor,

01:12:34 he says it's going to stand no chance. 1.00

01:12:36 You dumb man down, you abolish him, 0.99

01:12:38 you create men without chests, and the 1.00

01:12:40 propagandist comes along and he

01:12:42 is ripe for the taking. He's going to take him right

01:12:44 along so someone's going to train people how to think they're going to come out and they're going

01:12:48 to reach 18 years old and they'll be taught some way somehow from someone how to think to a better

01:12:52 to a lesser degree why not be us why not be christian parents christian schools christian

01:12:58 churches that do that education amen yep completely agree well any final thoughts as we go ahead and

01:13:04 land the plane only thing i'll say is hopefully i'm putting nathan on the spot here but maybe

01:13:07 in show notes if we do that or in in the youtube we did we did come up with some resources that

01:13:13 might train in thinking better because let's be honest um all of us uh are in a situation where

01:13:20 even the best and brightest are not nearly the thinkers that the men of previous generations

01:13:26 were and so all of us need training all of us need help in this area yes and so uh we did kind

01:13:32 of i researched a couple of good okay we'll see if we can put them in the description so a couple

01:13:36 of books the one that i just mentioned now uh logic the right use of reason in the inquiry

01:13:41 After Truth by Isaac Watts. Another one, it's not training on logic, but it is on understanding

01:13:46 ideas. It's called The Consequences of Ideas, Understanding the Concepts That Shaped Our World

01:13:51 by R.C. Sproul. And then there's a video series by Greg Bonson called Critical Thinking and Formal

01:13:58 Logic. It's long. It's 19 episodes on YouTube. So those are the three that I'll mention.

01:14:04 Awesome. Super helpful. And one last component. So we're doing three shows a week, Lord willing,

01:14:10 starting now this is our first week of the new year but that's the goal for 2024 and moving

01:14:13 forward is uh theology applied three times a week with three different formats theology applied the

01:14:18 interview on monday uh that's kind of the you know what what you guys have been following us have

01:14:22 seen you know where somebody remotely comes in so that's on monday at 4 p.m then theology applied

01:14:27 the live stream and that's going to be every week with michael and west lord willing um the three of

01:14:31 us that's a live stream 4 p.m on wednesdays and then theology applied the special and that's where

01:14:36 i also have two guests but guys the special will be uh quarterly seasons um and so i've got andrew

01:14:42 risker and ad robles um this friday will be the first episode and so that'll be uh quarter one

01:14:47 for january february and march and then i've got brian silvey and ben garrett for q2 and then i'm

01:14:52 lining up guys you know for q3 and q4 and the special is going to be you know eight to 12

01:14:56 episodes on one singular topic going deep that this wednesday is going to be a you know one

01:15:01 topic just for the week and then we move on in some cases though we may have something that's

01:15:05 like, all right, this is going to be a three-parter, you know, a little bit of a deeper

01:15:09 dive. But again, one of the strengths of the Wednesday live stream is it's not just the same

01:15:13 two guys for eight to 12 episodes, but Lord willing, it's us three guys for the course

01:15:18 of this whole year. And Lord willing, we'll see what comes next year and continuing. And so

01:15:22 building some rapport, building a relationship, practicing, getting better. This is our first

01:15:27 one. So we'll get better for you guys who are watching, but getting better. But then the live

01:15:32 stream also by being a live stream, not prerecorded. It allows us to hit a big world news items. If

01:15:38 something drops on Tuesday or even Wednesday morning, we could hit it that afternoon. And so

01:15:43 we can have fresh content by not prerecording it. But then the last thing I just, I felt like I had

01:15:47 to say this because we kept referencing it. So I think, you know, just go ahead and show our hand

01:15:51 here. Um, this show it's, it's going to be alive and therefore fresh, uh, relevant, but it also,

01:15:57 I think the advantage of the show is that, uh, it's going to have a lot of preparation,

01:16:01 a unique amount of preparation in the sense that part of the reason why i got michael and wes is

01:16:07 that they're both good speakers but they're also both very knowledgeable and they're good writers

01:16:12 and so what i've asked them to do is that they're going to alternate each week actually writing a

01:16:18 1500 word article with you know citations and resources and quotes pulled and an outline so

01:16:26 that this Wednesday special, again, 4 p.m. Central Time, the Wednesday live stream, is arguably our

01:16:32 most prepped show, our show with the most careful, meticulous preparation. We're not going to be

01:16:39 flying by the seat of our pants. So these guys are writing a whole episode out for us, and we're not

01:16:44 just reading it from the script. It's a natural conversation, but a lot of research has been done,

01:16:49 and so you guys are going to hear good, zippy one-liners that you've come to know and love

01:16:54 from Joel Webben, but you hopefully will also be hearing lots of facts, Michael and Wes especially

01:17:01 bringing that. So I'll say something that hopefully by God's grace is true, and it usually is,

01:17:06 God's pretty gracious, but then they'll also be able to give a citation for that. And to go even

01:17:11 deeper with that or more specificity, da-da-da-da-da-da, or so-and-so said. And so I think

01:17:16 it'll be our most timely show because it's a live stream. We can hit events quick, but it'll also be

01:17:22 one of our most prepared shows. Wes, you want to tease the topic for next week? Yeah. Topic for

01:17:27 next week. Why power is not a bad thing. Evangelicals shouldn't have an allergen, a aversion,

01:17:35 a put your hands up. And I think one of the big reasons is because it gets you off the hook. 1.00

01:17:39 You're not powerful. Nobody expects anything out of you. So tune in next week. That's great.

01:17:43 Cool. Thanks for tuning in, guys. Thanks.

01:17:52 Thank you.

`witch hunt`	Both words, anywhere in the episode.
`"witch hunt"`	The exact phrase.
`witch OR hunt`	Either word.
`"alpha male" -"high value"`	The first phrase, but not the second.
`(feminist OR feminism) AND (marriage OR divorce)`	Parentheses group alternatives.
`"decline civilization"~5`	Both words within 5 words of each other.

`misogyn*`	Any word starting with "misogyn": misogyny, misogynist, misogynistic…
`feminizm~1`	Words one letter off: catches typos and transcription errors.

`person:"Andrew Tate"`	Episodes where they host, guest, or are mentioned.
`host:"Glenn Beck"`	Episodes they host.
`guest:"Jordan Peterson"`	Episodes they appear on as a guest.
`mentioned:"Andrew Tate" -host:"Andrew Tate"`	Talked about on other people's shows.
`show:"Bannon's War Room"`	Episodes from one show.

`topics:abortion`	Episodes tagged with a topic (see the Topics page).
`summary:"Andrew Tate"`	Words in the episode summary. Summaries are machine-written and can be wrong.

`"great replacement" AND episode_date:[NOW-1YEAR TO NOW]`	From the past 12 months.
`lockdown AND episode_date:[2020-01-01T00:00:00Z TO 2020-12-31T23:59:59Z]`	From one year. Dates need the full time, as shown.
`"high value" AND misogyny_count:[100 TO *]`	Episodes with 100 or more sentences flagged as misogynistic. Also: hate_speech_count, toxicity_count, word_count.

The NXR Podcast - January 03, 2024

THE LIVESTREAM - 3 Tools For Judging Conspiracies

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript