The NXR Podcast - THE LIVESTREAM - Another Hero Has Fallen ｜ What Is God Doing？

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00:00:30 Another hero has fallen.

00:00:34 Voddie Bauckham has just passed away yesterday due largely to heart troubles.

00:00:41 That's part of why he returned with his wife and children from Zambia to the states where he was born and raised to finish out his life here.

00:00:50 Many had hoped that that life would have been longer.

00:00:54 I know that Founders Ministries, especially as mourning his loss, they had plans and vision.

00:00:58 with Tom Askell to do things in the future. Votie Bauckham was a Reformed Baptist pastor.

00:01:05 He was a husband and a father, and most importantly, he was a follower of Jesus Christ.

00:01:11 He was faithful. He was courageous. He was early when it came to pushing back against

00:01:18 wokeness and DEI as early as 2012, one of the first guys to speak against these kinds

00:01:24 of things, and he will be missed dearly. In this last couple of years, we have had many heroes fall

00:01:33 suddenly. Suddenly. Not just, you know, people always die, but we've had many heroes in the

00:01:41 faith dying all around the near time. In very recent days, weeks, months, and just a few short

00:01:50 years. We've seen MacArthur, John MacArthur, pass away. We saw Charlie Kirk just a couple weeks ago

00:01:56 assassinated. Now, Vodibachum has passed away. We've seen other ministers disqualify themselves,

00:02:02 such as Steve Lawson, and it seems as though God is doing something. And so in this episode,

00:02:07 we're going to talk a little bit about honoring Vodibachum and the life that he lived, but we're

00:02:13 also going to talk about what God may be up to and what God may be doing in the future and how

00:02:19 it's appropriate and right that we grieve, but that we should also grieve and hope. We are not

00:02:25 despairing. We believe that God is up to something, and it's something significant. But we want to

00:02:31 begin this episode by you hearing the words of Votie Bauckham from one of his sermons that he

00:02:36 spoke himself. Here they are. Number seven, you are going to hear a rumor one day that Votie

00:02:43 walk him is no more don't you believe it don't you believe it don't you believe it because though i

00:02:52 die i will rise with christ it will not be the end of me because christ is raised and i too

00:03:02 will be raised with christ that is why he is called the firstborn from the dead folks you

00:03:09 You don't talk about a firstborn unless there's others who are born after him.

00:03:16 Don't you pity me.

00:03:19 You pity the one who wants to hold on to Jesus without holding on to the

00:03:23 resurrection.

00:03:24 You pity the one who has absolutely no hope because they have no

00:03:29 resurrected Christ.

00:03:31 Don't you dare pity the one who believes in the death, burial, and resurrection of the

00:03:42 only begotten Son of God.

00:03:46 Because they are indeed the only people who have hope that is hope.

00:04:01 All right, we're back.

00:04:03 Vodibacham has passed away, and he is now in glory with the Lord Jesus Christ forevermore.

00:04:07 He lives forevermore.

00:04:09 No longer, as founders put out yesterday when they announced the news,

00:04:12 no longer in the land of the dying, but in the land of the living.

00:04:16 And he was very faithful.

00:04:17 He died relatively young.

00:04:19 He was 56 years old, which is tragic for his wife, tragic for his children.

00:04:24 We wanted to talk a little bit about his life,

00:04:26 and then we also want to address what we think God is up to.

00:04:29 We also want to address other evangelicals that we absolutely despise, who we feel like

00:04:36 are saying, oh, I so appreciate Votie Bauckham, where just a few short years ago, two years

00:04:41 ago, three years ago, they hated Votie Bauckham because they're a bunch of Marxist woke people

00:04:49 and Votie Bauckham stood against that.

00:04:52 So that's some of what we're going to be talking about in this episode.

00:04:54 I think it's easy to kind of not think of Votie in these last couple of years because

00:04:58 he's really been in Zambia so between COVID and he spoke a little bit on Black Lives Matter

00:05:02 but what was really incredible was it was 2016, 2017, 2018 and it's funny enough it was actually

00:05:08 with Sovereign Nation so Michael O'Fallon and James Lindsay but he was one of the very few

00:05:13 early on in a battle that in many ways has already been won that was sounding the alarm. He said hey

00:05:17 all these different tools that are being used you think of critical race theory these are kind of

00:05:23 rebranded in many ways, type of social Marxism. And I mean, as far as people that you could look

00:05:28 to that were saying, this is poisonous and this is demonic and this shouldn't be in the church.

00:05:32 I think it was 2018, you were sounding the alarm, Joel. But practically, I mean, Votie was one of

00:05:38 the few and he was a huge voice in that. And it's always the first ones that kind of bear

00:05:42 the brunt of it. It's the first ones that come out and say something that they lose the book deals

00:05:47 and they lose the speaking opportunities and they lose the job offers because they're first,

00:05:51 right the prophets prophets were not killed for being right they were killed for being the first

00:05:55 ones to say it and so Vodhi being gone in Zambia which we can talk about in a minute for the last

00:06:00 kind of five years or so has made a lot of us not think to there was a time I mean 2018 there was

00:06:06 a huge group of evangelicals John Piper was there Russell Moore was there they were celebrating

00:06:12 Martin Luther King in 2018 they were celebrating Martin Luther King's life and his legacy and

00:06:17 everything he did for the civil rights movement that's how bad it was and it's easy to forget

00:06:21 things were that bad in evangelical land but they were and there were very very very few men early

00:06:28 on now it's easy but there's very few men early on that stood up and votey i mean the guy honestly

00:06:34 could have had the world handed to him yeah a black reformed minister he should have been president

00:06:38 of the sbc he could have been president of the sbc at least at least one of their you know their

00:06:43 seminaries yep president of a seminary professor and honestly he might have lived longer he would

00:06:48 have been under less stress let's be honest zambia living conditions not great probably not as great

00:06:53 as down here in texas although to be honest probably equally as hot because he was from

00:06:57 houston wasn't he yeah he was from houston i was just there and that no offense to anyone who lives

00:07:01 in houston that place is hot and that place is terrible so practically he forewent and said yeah

00:07:05 i could live in the states i could be a professor of a reformed institution probably i could have

00:07:10 an easy gig. Write some books, teach on homeschooling, give some lectures,

00:07:15 make $250,000. But he said no to it, for one, because

00:07:19 he didn't want to grift off being black. But what's cool about him, too, he had a love

00:07:23 for his own people. You know a little bit more about the kids

00:07:27 he adopted, I think, than I do, so I'll pass it to you.

00:07:30 Voddie Bauckham, like all of us, nobody comes out of the womb with perfect theology. People

00:07:34 will always try to accuse and slander and

00:07:38 present opposition. They'll be like, well, he changed. And it's like, yeah, that's what

00:07:43 following Jesus does for a person. It changes them. That's what sanctification is. It's changing.

00:07:48 And so Vodibachim, by his own admission, had the perfect family, is the way that he and his wife

00:07:52 would have described it. They had two natural-born children, biological, one boy, one girl. And so

00:07:58 it's this perfect black family where the father actually stays married to the wife and raising

00:08:06 the children and he's a pastor and he's conservative and he's a good man with, you know, behaved

00:08:12 children and a loving wife. And most people would comment, you know, in the churches that they were

00:08:18 a part of. Most of those churches were predominantly white churches, not because Votie didn't have

00:08:23 natural affections or care for black people in America. He cared very deeply, but he could not

00:08:28 be a part of the black church in America because the black church in America is probably without 0.87

00:08:34 any hyperbole about 97 98 heretical right the black church in america is terrible and i'm not 0.96

00:08:43 just saying all they you know they're just off on a few doctrines that are secondary or tertiary i 0.54

00:08:47 mean no like it's terrible al sharpton is a black minister right td jakes you think the black church

00:08:54 in america is i'm tracking down death threats that you've gotten with fbi and everything and i'm 0.93

00:08:59 looking at small group leaders in black churches in houston writing death threats to a father of

00:09:03 five because they disagree with his views on race that's right yeah no the people coming after me 0.97

00:09:07 it's not just you know raging leftists you know and transgenders and lgbt element op mafia it's 0.88

00:09:13 it's um it's professing christians and a decent amount of them being black who attend black 0.99

00:09:19 churches with terrible theology that are like yeah i'm going to threaten this white pastor who's a 0.88

00:09:25 husband and a father of five um so yeah voti uh probably would have gone to a predominantly you

00:09:31 know majority black church if there had been one if there had been one i mean people are quick to

00:09:37 cite hb charles do you know why they're quick to cite hb charles because it might be the only

00:09:43 majority black church in america that doesn't have some tangible gaping obvious heresy on the face of

00:09:53 it that's how i mean you think of the white church in america you've got joyce myers my goodness

00:09:58 You've got Joel Osteen.

00:09:59 Kenneth Copeland.

00:10:00 Kenneth Copeland.

00:10:01 You've got Stephen Furtick. 0.97

00:10:02 So I'm not saying that the white church doesn't have problems. 0.97

00:10:04 Of course it does. 0.56

00:10:05 I would say that within the white churches, majority white churches in America, I would say probably 80-90% of them are heretical. 0.90

00:10:15 The black church, I would say probably 97-98% heretical. 1.00

00:10:19 I think that's fair. 1.00

00:10:20 I think Virgil Walker and Daryl Harrison would agree with me.

00:10:23 I think Vody would have agreed with me.

00:10:25 So no, he did not go to a predominantly black church.

00:10:27 here's my point back to you know talking about his life and who he was um he was predominantly

00:10:33 because he rejected the heresy of the black church he was predominantly him and his family

00:10:37 in white spaces white churches white seminaries white you know denominations white conferences

00:10:44 and uh and not because he was even making a choice about black or white he was making a choice based

00:10:50 off of you know truth and falsities he was choosing true sound doctrine but i remember reading fault

00:10:55 lines. And in Fault Lines, he talks about how early on, as he was kind of rising in prominence

00:11:01 within evangelicalism, there was a lot of different black influential individuals within the church

00:11:08 at large who were saying, don't you go that direction. Don't take that route. You belong to 0.97

00:11:14 us. You should be over here. You're one of us. And he rejected that, not because he didn't love

00:11:20 black people and not because he didn't even have an understanding of these are my people. All

00:11:25 Americans, there's a sense in which, hey, America is my people. There's a higher sense of Christians

00:11:29 are my people, Americans are my people, but then also black people are my people. That is true,

00:11:34 right? He's black. Black people are his people. And if you think, oh, Joel, don't make it about 0.99

00:11:39 that. Votie Bauckham, so to answer Wes's question that kind of started me on this trail, he adopted,

00:11:46 right? They had two natural born children in all these white churches. It's like, look at this

00:11:50 wonderful Christian black family with one boy and one girl. And he changed over time in his

00:11:56 convictions, in his theology, and started to realize, man, we should have had more kids.

00:12:00 What are we doing? And so what they did was later on in life, they adopted. They did not adopt

00:12:05 seven Asian boys or seven white boys or seven Hispanic boys. Votie Bauckham adopted seven black

00:12:11 boys. And he did it intentionally. And I think he did it because he knew that black young boys 1.00

00:12:18 are predominantly fatherless and need help tremendously. But I think he also did it

00:12:24 because he himself was black. And he was saying, look, this is one of the ways that I can give

00:12:28 back. One of the stories I remember Vodhi sharing when he first visited Zambia. So this is when he's

00:12:35 scoping things out. It's before he actually makes the move to join Conrad Mbewe, who was

00:12:40 native to the area and still there. But he was going to go over and join Conrad in this endeavor

00:12:45 to start an African seminary because the black church in America is bad in its theology. And 1.00

00:12:52 and then, you know, actual churches in Africa are arguably even worse. The church there is terrible,

00:12:59 terrible theology. And so they wanted to actually do something about it, actually do something

00:13:04 about it. So and you can't do anything about any problem unless you first acknowledge there is a

00:13:09 problem. So Voti was perfectly comfortable saying, yeah, African churches and theology for Africans 0.92

00:13:17 predominantly is absolutely unbiblical and atrocious. And so I'm going to try to make a 0.99

00:13:22 difference. And so he went and he was scoping it out and he told this story about how he's,

00:13:26 you know, visiting Africa for the first time. And there was an old, you know, black man,

00:13:33 African man, who, you know, spoke to him. Maybe it was translated. I can't remember the story

00:13:39 exactly. It was either translated, you know, or he spoke broken English, but communicated to Votie

00:13:44 upon his introductory introduction and said, is this your first time to Africa? And Votie said,

00:13:51 yes. And then the black man gave him a huge hug and said, welcome home, son. And Votie,

00:13:59 this is not me. I'm not trying to find something in this, right? We want to honor Votie and what

00:14:03 he thought like his story as he told it um he said that uh in that moment when that older black

00:14:11 african man hugged him and said welcome home that he's just started weeping and he almost couldn't

00:14:17 even explain why it was just this natural impulse he just started weeping um and and i think we all

00:14:25 know why and i think voti would have said he was because this is where i'm from this is where i'm

00:14:31 i'm from not him personally he wasn't born in africa but born in los angeles but in terms of

00:14:35 his ancestry right he is the sense of i'm being reunited with my people and there is something

00:14:41 to be said for my people if you're a christian then yes in the spiritual eternal sense your

00:14:45 people are christians but we also live in this this temporal world that god made um i think of

00:14:52 you know the book of ephesians that you know we have citizenship in heaven philippians says that

00:14:56 but Ephesians says, I write to the saints at Ephesus, right? They are people who have an

00:15:03 identity and a belonging and a citizenship in Ephesus, but also in their Christian status

00:15:09 are citizens of heaven. The apostle Paul, he doesn't say, well, you know what? My citizenship

00:15:14 is in heaven. No, when it, when it suits him, when it, when it benefits him, he says, whoa,

00:15:19 wait a second, I'm a Roman citizen. You can't do this. And he appeals to his natural temporal

00:15:24 earthly citizenship. Now, I have a people, right? And he also does that as a Hebrew, right? I'm a

00:15:30 Hebrew of Hebrews, circumcised on the eighth day, you know, son of a Pharisee, and he's listing off 0.82

00:15:36 his credentials. And so all throughout the scripture, we have natural affections, we have

00:15:42 natural identities, and Votie recognized that. So when it came to, you know, he's preaching in

00:15:47 all these white churches and pastoring, you know, a majority white church because, not because he

00:15:52 doesn't want black people to come, but because he's preaching sound doctrine in America and

00:15:56 sound doctrine in America repels, I would say again, about 80 to 90% of white professing 0.92

00:16:02 Christians and about 97 to 98% of black professing Christians. So go figure, you got a reformed 0.96

00:16:09 preacher and his church ends up being white because most reformed Christians tend to be 0.88

00:16:14 white. And so he's ministering in predominantly white denominations, conferences, churches,

00:16:19 those kinds of things with his perfect, you know, picture-perfect black conservative Christian

00:16:23 family, the husband, the wife, and the two kids, the boy and the girl, and later in life realizes,

00:16:28 no, we have to do more. And when he decides that we should do more, he doesn't just say,

00:16:32 we should do more for anyone and everyone, red and yellow, black and white, they are precious

00:16:35 in his sight. Yes, Jesus loves all the little children of the world. I believe that. But in

00:16:40 terms of Vodibachum as a finite man who can only effectively love so many, he has to choose. He has

00:16:45 to be selective and who does he choose and it's not coincidence he chooses seven black boys and

00:16:51 then what does he choose later on in life he says i'm going to move to zambia i'm going to uproot

00:16:55 my family i'm going to take seven black boys that i adopted with my wife i'm going to be a father to

00:17:00 them i'm going to catechize them i'm going to train them in the christian faith and while i'm training

00:17:04 them in the home as a father in my public ministry i'm going to minister to africans in zambia and

00:17:10 plant and start a seminary so that there would be more native African pastors who are actually

00:17:16 sound in their doctrine and able to preach the word faithfully. And this is what he does and

00:17:21 what he gives his life to. And I think you can make the argument without being too far-fetched

00:17:27 or speculative. I think it's perfectly fair to say that he had heart troubles and he probably

00:17:31 would have had that no matter what. But I think his life probably would have been extended

00:17:36 if he had stayed in the States with better healthcare, with better doctors, with all

00:17:41 these things. You probably remember for those of you who followed Vodibachem and were blessed by

00:17:46 his ministry as I was, I think it was about a year ago or so, maybe a year and a half that they did

00:17:52 this big fundraising campaign because he had a huge emergency with his heart failing when he was

00:17:57 still in Zambia. And they had to raise a ton of money to get him back to the States and for the

00:18:05 medical bills to go and get surgery and see a doctor. If you're not familiar with that story,

00:18:10 maybe this will trigger your memory. It's the story that Josh Bice, underneath one of his

00:18:14 anonymous accounts, said, where did all the money that they raised go? It only cost this much for

00:18:18 the procedure, but they raised this much, right? Attacking Votie Bauckham and calling him a thief

00:18:23 from an anonymous account, Josh Bice, who was the head of G3. And now Votie Bauckham's dead. I

00:18:29 wonder how he feels. Probably not great. Hopefully there's true repentance and not just crocodile

00:18:33 aisle tears on behalf of Josh Bice. But all that stuff went down. And so my point is, that's why

00:18:39 they came back, as far as anybody knows, as far as what's been told. Yes, to help Tom. Yes, to be

00:18:44 home. But also for his health. That was a big part of why they came back, was in this final

00:18:50 stage of life. And he was going to help do the seminary with Founders Ministries, with Tom Askell

00:18:56 in Florida. And they made a big announcement. Everybody was super excited about that. I talked

00:19:01 to Joel Askell, Tom's son, you know, and have some relationship with him. And there's so much

00:19:05 excitement. And now just, I can't imagine just the level of disappointment and frustration.

00:19:11 Everyone ultimately, like Joe, right? Not shouting and accusing God, handling it well as Christians

00:19:17 and trusting the Lord that he's sovereign over all things, but both grieving and wrestling with

00:19:23 disappointment at the same time so tragic um that that uh you know that that vody died suddenly

00:19:30 um and that he died early relatively speaking 56 uh but i i again i just want to reiterate

00:19:37 um what he gave the latter portion of his life to and in part you could argue at least at least

00:19:44 partially what what uh not what killed him in general but maybe caused him to die sooner than

00:19:50 he maybe otherwise would have was uh a a not just ministry in the abstract or in a general sense

00:19:57 but ministry through the avenue through through the the channel of um an understanding of natural

00:20:04 affections yeah i'm going to i mean the end of his life he probably could have taken more naps he

00:20:09 probably could have had more time to exercise he probably like but later in life when you're

00:20:13 already older let's adopt seven boys seven boys and let's move to zambia yeah right seven boys 0.96

00:20:22 black boys uh let's move to another place a black a third world country a third world country an 0.98

00:20:29 african black country and why because black boys need fathers uh black countries in africa need 0.99

00:20:38 sound doctrine, but also because Votie Bakken was black. And he felt like, I want to help

00:20:44 the body of Christ ultimately, but I also want to help my people, not just my people spiritually,

00:20:51 eternally, which would include all Christians, but my people temporally and naturally. I want

00:20:56 to help black people. And he did. He did immensely. And he's worthy of incredible honor.

00:21:03 that's a profound legacy to leave i think of john knox like give me scotland or i die right like men

00:21:09 that have devoted themselves to the preaching of the gospel they said at the end of the day like

00:21:12 you said i just can't reach everyone and so the people that god has put me in i've been born this

00:21:18 way i've been born to this family i've been born among this nation these are the people that i'm

00:21:22 going to help i think that's an incredible legacy to leave it is praise god for him praise god for

00:21:26 him so um let's let's do this uh we'll come back after the commercial and talk about what we think

00:21:31 the Lord might be doing. But before we go to the commercial, we wanted to first talk about who

00:21:36 Vodhi was, what he did, honor his legacy. But then we also wanted to talk about others who are

00:21:41 pretending to honor his legacy now, but hated him while he was still alive. And I want to frame it

00:21:46 by just, I think of Jesus and what he says about the Pharisees and the Sadducees, the lawyers,

00:21:51 the religious Jewish rulers at the time who were opposing him. He said, you build the tombs

00:21:56 of the prophets, but your fathers are the ones who killed them. And essentially what he's saying,

00:22:03 he's like, can a prophet die anywhere else, be put to death anywhere else but Jerusalem? This

00:22:07 is the city that kills the prophets. And what Jesus is saying is, here I am, the capital P 0.92

00:22:13 prophet, the living prophet, and I'm standing in front of your face and you're trying to kill me.

00:22:18 Meanwhile, you honor the tombs and the sepulchres of the prophets who are already dead, but you're

00:22:25 really just like your fathers. Your fathers hated Jeremiah. They hated Isaiah. They hated every

00:22:29 prophet the Lord sent them when the prophet was still alive. And it's only the later generations 0.97

00:22:35 of your fathers that honor those prophets once they've been safely buried under six feet of dirt.

00:22:40 And I know that you're like your fathers, because although you claim, oh, we wouldn't have done to

00:22:44 Jeremiah what our fathers did, and we wouldn't have done to Isaiah what our fathers did,

00:22:48 I know for a fact that you would have, because I am the full fulfillment and culmination of

00:22:56 Jeremiah and of Isaiah, the Lord Jesus Christ, and you are seeking to do to me the very thing

00:23:01 that your fathers did to them. And I think that that principle from Jesus in regards to the bad

00:23:09 guys, the Pharisees, just to make it clear, if you don't know already, they're the bad guys in

00:23:13 the gospel narratives and those accounts. And I think that the Pharisees are still alive and well.

00:23:19 The Judaizers are still alive and well. We have them today, and evangelicalism is filled with 1.00

00:23:26 them. And so we wanted to show a couple examples. I would just say, too, Cosmic Treason brought it

00:23:29 up. He was, lest his natural affections overshadow some of his other great qualities, he was great

00:23:35 on Patriarch. He was 2008. He was. And he was saying Sarah Palin for vice president is not right.

00:23:40 she is a woman she shouldn't be in that in 2008 think about that and he said it on the news on

00:23:45 live televised news he's being interviewed and uh and he doesn't disparage her he's like yeah she's

00:23:51 you know she's conservative there's a lot of great things about her but no she should not hold civil

00:23:55 office because she's a she's a woman and she should be a mother at home in 2008 he said that

00:24:01 some of us were like still a decade later like i don't know right right does the bible really teach

00:24:07 that right so yeah so voddy bacham was uh he was yeah natural affections and standing up against

00:24:12 you know he uh what did he call it uh gnostic epistemology epistemological gnosticism yep i

00:24:19 think is what he called it uh so standing up against wokeness and and and all those kinds

00:24:23 of things dei and blm um before it even culminated in 2020 all the way back in 2012 uh but that's

00:24:30 not the only thing he did uh he you're right he wrote books on um on parenting on fatherhood

00:24:36 on marriage. Big on homeschooling as well. He was huge on homeschooling. So he was great on

00:24:40 education and homeschooling. He was great on the family. He was great on marriage. He was great

00:24:46 on social issues and pushing back against all the minority, whites are racist crap. He pushed 1.00

00:24:53 back on that and he did so. And with all these things, he did it early. Patriarchy, 2008. Pushing

00:24:58 back on blm 2012 um he he was early to the fight and um and he fought well on multiple fronts and

00:25:06 then beyond all of that uh the thing that he's you know should be remembered uh for the most

00:25:12 besides just you know patriarchy and the family and and fighting against blm and those kinds of

00:25:18 things is uh he was a faithful expositional preacher of the word of god he taught through

00:25:23 books of the Bible week in and week out for decades in the local church, feeding the flock

00:25:29 of God. And very, very faithful. So let's talk about some of these Judaizer, Pharisee,

00:25:36 you know, chip off the old block of the Pharisee evangelical pastors that we have today who are 0.97

00:25:41 coming out and saying, oh, Vody, we'll miss you. But just three years ago, despised them.

00:25:47 Do we want to do commercial break first or after?

00:25:49 Let's do this. And then when we come back after, let's talk about what we think the Lord might be

00:25:53 up to in terms of, because it's uncanny. And I think we do need to take note, right? God has

00:25:58 not abandoned us. We're not without hope. God is sovereign over all things, including every sparrow

00:26:04 that falls to the ground and every saint who passes away. So none of it's an accident, and God

00:26:11 is working all things for the good of those who love him and are called according to his purposes.

00:26:15 But one thing that we know is happening providentially right now is that heroes of the

00:26:21 faith for the previous battles that we've had are dropping like flies. I think from 2017 with Sproul

00:26:27 to now Votie Bauckham, you have a plethora. You have John MacArthur. You have Charlie Kirk. You

00:26:34 have all these guys who have passed away. Tim Keller wasn't super faithful towards the end,

00:26:39 but he was another giant at a time who passed away. And then you have other guys who have

00:26:45 disqualified themselves. I already mentioned Josh Bice. You have Steve Lawson. That whole

00:26:50 thing that when i when i was in my 20s you know and i'm learning reform theology there's there's

00:26:54 this group of men you know that are part of gospel coalition or tgc together uh uh together for the

00:27:01 gospel t4g um and about half of that crew is gone now half of that crew either death or

00:27:08 disqualification and i don't think it's a coincidence and i think it's worth talking

00:27:11 about so let's talk about that after the commercial break but let's give some examples of the pharisees

00:27:15 that kill the prophets now. All right, here's the big one, and this is going to be Pastor J.D.

00:27:20 Greer of Summit Church in North Carolina. J.D. Greer, he said this yesterday when we found out

00:27:25 that Vody Bauckham passed away. He said, brokenhearted to hear about Vody Bauckham going

00:27:29 home to be with the Lord, praying for his wife, kids, and grandkids. He preached here several

00:27:34 years ago and did an incredible job. He really blessed our people. I always enjoy the times we

00:27:39 were together, Psalm 116, 15, indeed. Now, I said all that at the beginning about Vody being first.

00:27:44 I talked about, for example, Martin Luther King 50.

00:27:47 This was 2018, the celebration of Martin Luther King's life

00:27:49 put on by the Gospel Coalition.

00:27:52 And one of the big pastors peddling a very kind of soft version

00:27:55 of this ethnic Gnosticism that Vody referenced was J.D. Greer.

00:28:00 You had guys that would be full-blown progressive.

00:28:02 This would be Jamar Tisby in The Color of Compromise,

00:28:05 Eric Mason very much so leading into just all in, put the chips in.

00:28:10 And then you could kind of liken that to...

00:28:11 Johnson Crump, Brandon Washington, Dwayne Bond, the long list.

00:28:15 Long list.

00:28:16 A lot of those names sound very familiar.

00:28:18 And you can kind of liken that, I think, to the egalitarian position when it comes to gender roles.

00:28:21 You have egalitarian, you have patriarchy on the other side, but then there's a soft middle.

00:28:25 And the soft middle, it catches a lot of people.

00:28:28 It feels like it doesn't have the excesses of either side.

00:28:31 And very soft-spoken men can do a great job selling it.

00:28:34 And J.D. Greer is a prime example of this.

00:28:38 So J.D. Greer is, you know, he maintains the—

00:28:40 Soft, woke, but at some points not so soft.

00:28:43 But at some points not so soft, yep.

00:28:46 Very much so acceptable, right? 0.73

00:28:48 He has orthodox positions on gender issues, orthodox positions on homosexuality, orthodox 0.63

00:28:53 positions.

00:28:54 He's just—he's not the heretical black church in town. 0.99

00:28:57 But in many ways, that made him even more dangerous. 1.00

00:29:00 Let's go ahead and play this clip.

00:29:01 This is from his church.

00:29:03 What I want you to kind of think in the back of your mind is that Votie Bauckham, as he

00:29:07 spoke out against critical race theory 2015 dr james dobson also just passed away recently i

00:29:13 forgot about i remember you were listing different names and dobson was up there but um but jd greer

00:29:17 and votie bockham think about votie bockham as we play this clip of uh jd greer from his church

00:29:22 this whole thing is not about getting a bunch of different color people in a room

00:29:27 for a photo op and i want you to actually lock arms here

00:29:30 right here we're gonna get a few other worship leaders so this is not a photo op

00:29:34 that people put up.

00:29:43 And here's what we're going to do, Summit.

00:29:45 Yeah, just go across the aisles.

00:29:46 Go across the aisles.

00:29:47 Just join.

00:29:49 As much as we can make it like one body here.

00:29:54 Here's what we're going to do.

00:29:55 Here's what we're going to do.

00:30:04 If you're just listening to that, what you saw J.D. Greer doing, this was again kind of the height of social justice, the woke movement.

00:30:11 He was getting all these different members of the summit staff on stage and linking arms with them together as a display of unity.

00:30:17 Elsewhere, you heard him talk about, we didn't play it here, but he said they went through like every position in their church.

00:30:23 So administrative, director, this, that, or the other.

00:30:26 And they said, could a woman do this role biblically? 1.00

00:30:28 Could a woman do this role biblically? 0.97

00:30:29 Could a woman do this role? 1.00

00:30:31 Which 99% of the time, the answer is probably no.

00:30:33 but they went through and like where can we hire women where can we hire minorities he was 0.99

00:30:38 everything that Votie Bauckham lived against that type of division that type of partiality

00:30:44 that type of pushing people forward and what they're trying to do and don't miss this guys

00:30:48 like this are kind of trying to forget those last seven years here's another big name I don't know

00:30:51 what he said about Votie but Josh Howerton this is the guy who's kind of realizing like hey the sun

00:30:56 is setting on Democrats it's not popular to be woke it's not hip it's not cool and I you know

00:31:01 i just had beth moore preach in my church like four years ago i've never acknowledged it i've

00:31:05 never apologized for it but i'm going to kind of talk about josh howerton josh howerton yep uh

00:31:10 megachurch all these guys have just pivoted and i'm sure some of them are great guys here's the

00:31:14 deal you're allowed to change like i said about voting he changed right they had two kids and

00:31:18 they thought that that's great and then we won't have any more um and then he changed god convicted

00:31:23 him he realized okay we want to have more children he adopted seven boys you're allowed to change

00:31:27 but here's the thing um you're supposed to acknowledge it repentance is in word and deed

00:31:33 not just deed without word where you try to make the changes in your your actions in the middle of

00:31:38 the night and hope that nobody notices not just where you memory hole certain things um you have

00:31:43 to actually acknowledge you repentance is changing in deed but also in word you actually acknowledge

00:31:50 it in word and like josh howerton and some of these guys um they have changed you know like

00:31:56 Josh Howerton was having Beth Moore preach at the church not many years ago.

00:32:00 And I don't think he would do that now.

00:32:02 I think he realizes that that was wrong.

00:32:03 There's no public record of him ever saying, though, that he, hey, you might.

00:32:08 And I think also it's a way of not insulting people.

00:32:11 Like it's really, it's arrogant and really demeaning and condescending and insulting to say,

00:32:16 hey, so I'm doing everything the opposite of what I did just four years ago. 1.00

00:32:22 But you're all idiots and you won't notice. 0.99

00:32:24 and so i'm not going to say a word about it that's josh howerton's play now apparently you know 1.00

00:32:30 a sizable majority of his 20 000 person church uh turns out they are idiots turns out turns out so 0.99

00:32:38 he actually doesn't have to repent um in word he does as far as his soul is concerned with the lord 1.00

00:32:43 but in terms of keeping his job and keeping his church he doesn't because they actually are 0.99

00:32:46 choosing to um to prop up their pastor's impenitence by being idiots he's doing the 0.99

00:32:53 exact opposite of what he did 15 minutes ago um it's quite obvious for anybody with eyes to see 0.99

00:33:00 and yet they're just gonna let him do it yep or let them go back and celebrate the guys who fought

00:33:06 against the very type of wokeness that you were bringing into the church less than four years

00:33:10 like the jd greer example exactly so so broken-hearted you know so sad to see votey go

00:33:16 and it's like you you you and your cronies behind the scenes were trying to run them out of the

00:33:23 SBC. Yep. All right. Speaking of repentance, here's another example. So this is Chris K. Dubb,

00:33:29 infamous name from kind of the reform circle. And it was in May. So at this point, three to four

00:33:35 months ago, his church came out and they put out in a statement. They weren't thrilled to do it,

00:33:39 but they said, do people need to know this? He is divorcing his wife for a woman that he's met

00:33:43 online. He's unrepentant. We've had to go through and do church discipline on him. Well, and Chris

00:33:48 is, in case you're listening, we've got a picture of him up right here. Chris is another black man. 0.72

00:33:52 He posted this eulogy, this memorial to Votie.

00:33:55 He said, I've had the pleasure of meeting Votie a few times.

00:33:57 He's always been very kind.

00:33:58 I've learned so much from him.

00:34:00 Rest in peace, brother.

00:34:01 Now, this is a man that, by all accounts, from an account a couple months ago from members of his current church today,

00:34:07 that are telling him this man is a black man walking out on his family to be with another woman.

00:34:13 To be with another woman that he met on the internet. 0.99

00:34:15 Votie Bauckham would punch him in the face if he saw him today and knew that.

00:34:19 I have it right here.

00:34:19 Yeah, so you did a great job.

00:34:21 this is from sensible moderate uh on x wesley todd i was blocked it had to be within under 90

00:34:26 seconds by chris for pointing this out the comment hidden this is a copy of the letter right below 0.80

00:34:31 and i said this uh votie would punch you in the face for what you did to your family you are the 0.97

00:34:35 embodiment of black culture that votie spent his life trying to eradicate yep votie was out there 1.00

00:34:41 he's like black men you need to be good fathers you need to be good husbands you need to be 0.92

00:34:46 churchmen and chris is literally the opposite of all of those things right i'm not going to be a 0.98

00:34:51 father to my adopted what are black men known for um getting women pregnant abandoning them and not 0.59

00:34:57 raising their kids i'm not saying that's the only thing they're known for but that's up there that's

00:35:01 on the list here's the thing about voting he wouldn't say oh that's racist i can't believe

00:35:04 you said that joey would say yeah they are known for that and it's terrible and i'm not going to

00:35:09 be known for that and i'm going to do everything i can with my life and my ministry to help other

00:35:14 black people to other black men not to be known for that to change this and here's k-dub chris

00:35:21 who has been a thorn in our side for two and a half years calling me a heretic and then three 0.93

00:35:25 months ago his church uh puts out a letter saying he's under church discipline for abandoning his

00:35:30 wife and son but then votie dies and he's like oh i so appreciate votie votie would slap him in the 0.94

00:35:36 face vote he stood for every against everything he is votie was like black men need to get it 0.98

00:35:42 together and stop abandoning their families here's k-dub a black man who claims to be a christian 0.96

00:35:46 with a youtube christian uh channel who literally abandoned his family his banner on x is all things 0.73

00:35:53 theology he's a christian he's there he's talking theology and you know i walked away from my wife

00:35:58 i mean let he use without sin cast the first stone but i really appreciate this

00:36:02 voting you may appreciate voting but he would not appreciate you yeah so that's what some of

00:36:09 what's trying to do and the point is don't let these people off the hook don't let them eulogize

00:36:13 the people that stood against them what they stood for in their life don't let them walk it back yeah

00:36:17 i i know i did that but really who remembers and the people that remember do they really have

00:36:22 influence i think i can get away with this one one of the best marks like voty that you said

00:36:27 someone even brought up like ally bestucky that you went on her show a number of years ago you've

00:36:31 come out publicly and said hey i was wrong those are the marks of men like voty that you want to

00:36:36 up to hey he's changed he's grown he's more mature but other men that are trying to whitewash over

00:36:42 the past don't look like nothing to see here covet is an example um every now and then it'll

00:36:47 circulate you know on the internet people find you know a picture of me wearing a mask and for the

00:36:52 first uh for the first five weeks as soon as you know they shut down churches i number one i was

00:36:58 not in texas that's part of the reason why we moved here but we were in california where there

00:37:01 were some of the strictest lockdown measures, draconian measures in our country at the time in

00:37:07 2020. It took us five weeks in part because we were renting an elementary school and they

00:37:14 wouldn't let us use the building. So we had to find a church that would let us meet. The church

00:37:17 allowed us to meet outside in their outdoor area. And because of some of my elders, that was a big

00:37:24 and many of the members, I wore masks for the first few weeks. So we missed four weeks. Fifth

00:37:32 week started meeting, wore masks for the first few weeks. So within two months, we were rolling

00:37:38 and going as though COVID was not even a thing. Meanwhile, a ton of other churches were shut down,

00:37:46 not meeting at all for nine months, 10 months, 12 months. I think it was still later in the summer

00:37:50 even MacArthur's church opened. Yeah. We beat MacArthur's church by eight weeks. And, you know,

00:37:55 but when MacArthur, God bless him, you know, God rest his soul. When MacArthur made a change on

00:38:01 that, they literally made a documentary about his courage. Yeah. When I made a change eight weeks

00:38:05 before MacArthur on that, you know, people still mock me to this day, but here's the deal. It's to

00:38:11 go to your point. Cause it's, it's absolutely vital. So how do you respond? Well, the way that

00:38:16 i responded is when our church met on that fifth week after being closed for four uh the first

00:38:21 first third of my sermon about 15 minutes straight was uh was publicly repenting to the church

00:38:26 i'm sorry guys i got this wrong um and then you know and then it was kind of a series of repentance

00:38:33 and changing my theology and admitting and it's been five years now where i'm doing it again right

00:38:37 now but hey you know what i was wrong um in the big scheme of things compared to the average church

00:38:43 including the ones who documentaries are made,

00:38:45 lauding them for their courage.

00:38:46 I actually was quicker than all of them

00:38:48 in getting it right.

00:38:50 But I still initially got it wrong.

00:38:52 And that's part of the story.

00:38:53 And here's the thing.

00:38:54 God doesn't get all the glory

00:38:56 if we don't tell the full story.

00:38:58 Because the full story includes our mistakes.

00:39:00 It includes our sin.

00:39:01 It includes our failures.

00:39:02 It includes all the ways that we botched it.

00:39:05 And it's the inclusion of man's sin

00:39:07 that magnifies God's grace

00:39:09 to where the story glorifies him instead of us.

00:39:13 which is another thing i've learned from guys like voting and so yeah so when you mess up

00:39:18 admitting that you got it wrong with the ally beth thing i think that was also in 2020 um and

00:39:23 people still to this day they'll say well you paid ally best to go on her show no we we paid her i

00:39:28 believe it was 750 to do a commercial on her show and then after she agreed to the commercial the

00:39:34 commercial was for a book that i wrote on the assurance of sin or assurance of salvation and

00:39:38 forgiveness of sin. And, um, and so they agreed like, okay, yeah, we'll run the commercial for

00:39:43 your book. And, uh, and so we paid for the commercial and then I followed up in an email

00:39:46 and said, Hey, could I do a short segment on the show, uh, talking about, you know, churches and

00:39:51 how they should respond to COVID. This was a few months after I had course corrected and those

00:39:55 kinds of things. And so she let me come on the show. And so there's, you know, somewhere in the

00:40:00 interweb, there's a recording of me, you know, for 10, 15 minutes at the very end of Allie Best

00:40:05 show you know five years ago in 2020 um here's the thing though it's funny because people say

00:40:10 well joel's you know patriarchal and he doesn't you know think that um a bunch of women should

00:40:14 be podcasting blah blah blah here's the thing with that though um if if some you know uh if 0.99

00:40:20 fox news reached out and said joel we want you to come on um and the news anchor for that that

00:40:25 segment happened to be a female i would go on right there's a different calculus to who you

00:40:29 have on your platform versus who show you would be willing to go on i would be willing to go on

00:40:34 an atheist show to talk about the things of God. I would be willing to go on a woman's show to talk 0.94

00:40:40 about the things of God. And so I actually didn't really change too much on that one. I would still

00:40:46 be willing to go on, if Candace Owens, who is a woman, if she would have me on the show, I would 0.99

00:40:51 go. Even after the last two weeks? The last two weeks have been a little strange, but yes, but

00:40:56 the principle still stands. Your willingness to go on somebody else's platform is different than

00:41:01 who you want to promote, who you want to promote on your platform. So yes, I would go on Candace

00:41:06 Owens' show. And for the record, I think she said plenty of things that I appreciate. And then she

00:41:10 said things that I vastly disagree with. But yes, I would absolutely go on her show. But what I won't

00:41:16 do is I'm not going to have a 10-part series where she's on my show. But my point is people will

00:41:21 bring that up all the time. And so as I've responded to the Allie Beth thing, I've said,

00:41:25 yeah you know what um my theology has changed i was softer on patriarchy than i used to be

00:41:32 even though technically like i just articulated um in in the case of the ali beth thing um you're

00:41:38 allowed to uh to pay money for a commercial um to promote a book people do it all the time uh there's

00:41:45 there's no law of god against that and you are actually allowed to go on somebody else's platform

00:41:50 even if you disagree with them having that platform themselves that's a different standard

00:41:54 than hosting them on your own platform so i can articulate that and all that is true and yet as

00:42:00 it's come up by opponents of mine who just want to try to find any kind of gotcha that they possibly

00:42:05 can to to smear and to slander what i've done is just try to give less of the details like i just

00:42:12 did now and at least initially when when that was making the rounds that you know that whatever

00:42:17 scandal the first thing i did was just own it and say yep i had certain views i was more

00:42:24 complementarian at a point. And then I became more patriarchal. Blessed be the name of the Lord.

00:42:29 He changed his hearts. He changed his minds. And I'm becoming more biblical the older I get.

00:42:36 Right? So you just have to say those things. But what you can't do is have Beth Moore,

00:42:39 not going on her platform, but having her preach in your church from the pulpit on the Lord's day

00:42:44 to men and women. And that being just a few years ago, and then never acknowledging it,

00:42:51 pretending like it never happened and then come out as like i'm a base christian i remember

00:42:56 correctly he commented after she preached that he's he compared it to george whitfield how people

00:43:00 would get done hearing and preaching and just walk around now that i mean the sin was having

00:43:04 her preach that's just cringe but both of those you've got to repudiate you've got it yeah so

00:43:09 true repentance is in word and deed so whether it's um getting it wrong initially on covid and

00:43:14 saying i got it wrong would you please forgive me here's what the bible actually says i had to

00:43:18 learned this. I was ignorant. I was wrong. Please forgive me. Here's what's right. Or whether it's

00:43:23 being, you know, more soft complementarian, you know, instead of strong patriarchal or whatever

00:43:28 it is, we're Votie Bauckham. We have two kids and that's, you know, and we're going to control

00:43:32 the birth process. And we don't want our quiver to be full because we have this picture perfect

00:43:38 little family and it's convenient and it's comfortable. And him later on coming out and

00:43:41 saying, nope, that was idolatry. That was sin. We're going to adopt seven black boys. It's both

00:43:46 though. Votie didn't just adopt seven black boys, but he also acknowledged in word, right? And so 0.52

00:43:51 that's what leaders are supposed to do. Leaders should repent. No leader is perfect, but Jesus

00:43:58 Christ alone. So leaders do fail. And when they fail, they should repent. And repentance is always

00:44:04 deed, change your actions, and word, acknowledge that you got it wrong. And there's a lot of guys,

00:44:10 whether it be J.D. Greer, you know, secretly conspiring against Votie Bachem and everything

00:44:15 that he stood for but at his death oh we're sure gonna miss him or whether it's a josh howerton or

00:44:20 whether it's this person or that person or whether it's k-dub um man really appreciate

00:44:24 vody bacham and everything he stood for well one of the things he stood for is black men not

00:44:28 abandoning their wife and child which k-dub is currently doing as a black man right that's the

00:44:35 hypocrisy and i just feel like with everybody and similar with charlie kirk right yeah charlie kirk 0.51

00:44:40 there you know there were mostly you know there was a lot of reaction to people being like like

00:44:44 gleeful you know and like this is great i'm so glad he's dead because they're just they're just 0.95

00:44:49 terrible demonic people but then there were also some squishy conservatives like really gonna miss

00:44:54 charlie kirk you know or really sad who who you know 15 minutes ago before he was assassinated

00:45:00 despised him and everybody knew it and people pull up the records and say here you are talking about

00:45:05 all his styles too aggressive and he's too mean and we should be more winsome we have the receipts

00:45:11 you know what i just thought of an example

00:45:12 it is what it is i'm not trying to make it about nick fontes

00:45:18 he actually had a good this is a good example he waited a day when charlie kirk was assassinated

00:45:26 then the next day he did a remembering charlie kirk episode and in it um he uh he he expressed

00:45:34 condolences deep condolences for his death and for his family his wife and his children

00:45:39 and all those things and honored him but nick fuentes hated charlie kirk yeah but here's my

00:45:44 point he acknowledged it he didn't just pretend that that's so so the very thing that uh that

00:45:50 evangelical pastors like jd greer and josh howerton refuse to do nick freaking fuentes

00:45:56 will do and people are like why why why what's what's up with joel and his willingness you know

00:46:02 to talk to nick fuentes i don't know maybe because he has more character than uh evangelical pastors

00:46:06 I don't know. Because he hated Charlie Kirk, and he had his reasons for it. But there were times

00:46:12 that he went too far. There are things that Nick Fuentes said about Charlie Kirk that I'm like,

00:46:16 oh, dude, I would never say that. But when Charlie died, he honored him, but he didn't just honor

00:46:23 him. He honored him and acknowledged at multiple points during that episode. He said, yeah, and

00:46:28 I'm not going to treat my audience like they're stupid. You guys are perfectly aware of what I've 0.99

00:46:33 said about Charlie Kirk. I despised him. He was one of my arch nemesis, one of my chief political

00:46:38 opponents. It's no secret. And he like a number of times, he said some kind of one-off line like

00:46:43 that. It's no secret that I did not like Charlie Kirk. And I said some really mean things about

00:46:47 Charlie Kirk. And I think he even at one point said some, and I went too far at times and things

00:46:51 I said about Charlie Kirk, but here's the deal. The same people that hate Charlie Kirk hate me.

00:46:55 And he was an honorable man in this way and that way. So my point is you can change. I mean,

00:47:02 that's what the gospel does. The gospel changes people. So we're not going to fault people for

00:47:06 changing. I shouldn't be faulted for, because what's the alternative? You get something wrong,

00:47:12 and so now you just need to stay wrong for the rest of your life? So that's what the gospel does,

00:47:16 is it actually changes people. But when you change, admit the change so that God might be

00:47:22 glorified. Admit, hey, I'm doing this. But you should be aware, I'm doing this now. I didn't

00:47:28 always do this. In fact, I said or did precisely the opposite of this at, you know, once upon a

00:47:34 time, and the reason why was because I was wrong, and I was a sinner, but Christ is good, and Christ

00:47:40 has grace, and he changed me by the power of his Holy Spirit so that I was one way here, but I'm

00:47:45 another way now. All glory, all praise be to Christ Jesus. That's what I've tried to do by God's grace.

00:47:54 I'm sure I haven't done it perfectly, but I've tried to truly repent word and deed. That's what

00:47:58 Nick did with Charlie Kirk. That's not what J.D. Greer is doing. That's not what Josh Howerton

00:48:04 is doing. And many other Pharisees who build tombs to the Vodibachums once they're safely

00:48:11 buried under six feet of dirt. But before they were buried, when they were alive and well,

00:48:18 they despised them and conspired against them.

00:48:21 And everybody knows, everybody knows

00:48:23 what J.D. Greer did with wokeness.

00:48:26 Everybody except for Neil Shinvey.

00:48:28 There's one man with blinders on who writes books against wokeness

00:48:32 while still attending, as a member, J.D. Greer's church.

00:48:36 And has never, he's pointed the gun at every single woke character there is

00:48:40 except for his pastor and continues to provide cover for him.

00:48:44 And I think the one thing, we can maybe close this segment with this,

00:48:46 the children thing aside,

00:48:48 Well, we actually repented of just kind of limiting the number of children.

00:48:51 What's actually cool about Vody is that by being courageous and being wise,

00:48:55 you can actually be right early.

00:48:57 So it's actually possible in 2008 to know biblical patriarchy,

00:49:01 to stand on those principles and be able to make that stand for truth.

00:49:05 Like it's actually not impossible that we'll always be repenting publicly,

00:49:08 making public errors again and again.

00:49:10 No, here's a guy in his long ministry career,

00:49:14 some missteps where he came back publicly acknowledged and said,

00:49:17 i'm going to do better but actually a lot of uh no he was right on that and he was right 10 years

00:49:22 early and he was right here five years before these people he was right here i can speak for

00:49:26 myself years before i even was yep and that's actually cool because that means then by study

00:49:31 by wisdom application of yourself to the word of god courage that's the thing he most certainly

00:49:36 had in spades but everything you can be right and then at your passing men will vindicate you and

00:49:42 said and do you know who stood on this who stood firm he did for 15 years he stood against the tie

00:49:48 for 10 years he taught against this that actually is possible and when we fail you repent and

00:49:54 acknowledge it to the glory of god but actually the ideal is standing for it and not having made

00:50:00 the mistakes publicly but by study by study and application uh being right yep uh one more thing

00:50:06 we'd be remiss if we did not include in terms of the life and legacy of vodhi bacham right he's

00:50:11 christian husband father pastor seminary professor all these different things but also um i'm pretty

00:50:20 sure nathan wasn't he a world champion with jiu-jitsu or muay thai or something he was an

00:50:25 incredible jiu-jitsu practitioner yeah jiu-jitsu he won some major tournament i remember that like

00:50:32 or it was like way up there yeah so he also kicked people's butts god bless him all right let's go to

00:50:38 our first commercial break we'll come back and we're going to talk um a little some of this will

00:50:42 be speculation but we're going to give it our best we're not going to say it as though it's

00:50:45 prophecy we're not prophets of the son of prophets uh but just but looking down the corridor and uh

00:50:51 recognizing that so many heroes have either disqualified themselves or passed away um and

00:50:57 and all very recently and knowing that the lord is sovereign over all that we're going to um begin

00:51:02 to try to predict a little bit um what the lord might be up to when we come back from this

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00:55:17 Nancy, m, as in ministries, dot com. All right, we're back. So you wanted to lead in, we titled

00:55:28 this episode, What Is God Doing? We named Sproul already, Dr. James Dobson, John MacArthur, God rest

00:55:35 his soul. Many, many decades of faithful ministry between those. Votie Bauckham, obviously. There's

00:55:40 other men that have taken themselves off the table. They've been disqualified. There's a picture from

00:55:44 G3. It has Votie, Josh Bice, Steve Lawson, John MacArthur, and Paul Washer. Two of those are with

00:55:50 the Lord. Two of them have been disqualified, and the only one left being Paul Washer. And who knows

00:55:56 how long he'll be with us. And Paul Washer has had health issues too. He has. He had a serious heart

00:56:01 surgery it was a couple of years ago that's right but the point is uh when you said it earlier all

00:56:06 of us that kind of came up as reformed not all our listeners will be reformed but there's a big

00:56:10 movement i mean time magazine called the reformed resurgence in the 2010s they called it one of the

00:56:15 biggest movements sweeping the nation it started with really honestly mark driscoll and mars hill

00:56:19 but grew out and a lot of people today if they're protestant and especially if they're historic

00:56:24 protestant so they first got into reformed theology was the reformed resurgence these

00:56:28 these were the men there were so many men even our church they said voti taught me uh biblical

00:56:32 being a biblical husband and about marriage about patriarchy and about a lot of men just yesterday

00:56:38 on our men's chat from uh the male members in our church a lot of them were grieving and really sad

00:56:42 we did a psalm sing last night um at nathan's house and we had probably about 40 40 people

00:56:48 from the church there and we um before we started doing the psalm sing and learning our four parts

00:56:53 and all those kinds of things with our worship director.

00:56:57 I took a moment just to honor Votie Bauckham,

00:56:59 and we prayed for the Bauckham family.

00:57:02 And a lot of people were a little teary-eyed and sad.

00:57:07 So even for us at a local level, many, many people in our local church

00:57:13 and within the reform movement at large have been massively impacted by voting.

00:57:18 So many young men, especially John MacArthur, who just passed away.

00:57:21 I mean, that's how they became a Christian.

00:57:22 Those were the sermons they cut their teeth on.

00:57:25 Oh, it was John MacArthur.

00:57:26 John MacArthur's books, his sermons, his teaching, all of that.

00:57:29 So in many ways, the Lord is wiping the slate.

00:57:31 You're getting some ideas as to why. 0.97

00:57:34 I think one of them where that would be is there's a new generation

00:57:38 and a new fight coming, that we've had victories, 0.50

00:57:41 and we've had progress, and I think of the children of Israel,

00:57:46 but those were for that generation and for those leaders and for those men.

00:57:49 And then God says, here's the young men, the Joshua's and the Caleb's in your midst.

00:57:54 And they're the ones that are going to go on,

00:57:55 and they're going to face the giants for the next generation.

00:57:58 Right, right.

00:57:59 What do you think about that?

00:58:00 No, I agree.

00:58:01 I think God seems to be clearing the board, right?

00:58:05 He's clearing the board of all the giants,

00:58:08 of all the positive sense of giants in the faith,

00:58:12 clearing the board of all the last generation,

00:58:16 the previous battles, generals.

00:58:18 that seems to be just undeniable and you know so there's really only two ways you can process that

00:58:25 you can either say this is terrible like it is it is sad it's tragic but you can say it's terrible

00:58:32 you know some you know god has somehow lost control and satan is taking the reins and you

00:58:38 know and and it's it's you know it's so over um or you can say no god's sovereign he's always

00:58:43 sovereign everything he does is for the good of those who love him and are called according to

00:58:47 his purposes. And for whatever reason, within the perfectly wise, omniscient mind of God,

00:58:54 he's determined that the last generation's leaders are not needed for the next generation's

00:59:01 battles. And I don't think there's any way to square it other than that. And that doesn't mean

00:59:07 that, I'm not saying any of that to disparage anyone, but I think that God has seen fit that

00:59:15 we need a new batch of leaders and a new batch of warriors and a new generation of Christians

00:59:22 to fight new fights. And the reality is that the fights that we're now facing, they are new. 0.97

00:59:30 It's not the same. Like you think of like Sproul and MacArthur, a lot of what they were fighting

00:59:35 back in the day in the trenches together, you know, Presbyterian and Baptist fighting, you know,

00:59:39 arms linked hand in hand uh they were fighting the inerrancy wars you know of the 1980s you know

00:59:45 and 90s uh fighting for you know the inerrancy of scripture and fallibility of scripture a lot

00:59:51 of the seminaries were uh were becoming more liberal and progressive and abandoning the

00:59:56 inerrancy and carl bart you know was was beginning to be praised in all the seminary halls and these

01:00:02 kinds of things and i remember like even in sbc um uh seminaries which are you know supposed to

01:00:07 be conservative, there was a time where in those seminaries you had professors throwing the Bible

01:00:13 in the trash on the first day of seminary in front of their students and saying that the

01:00:20 resurrection was a metaphor and that Christ wasn't bodily raised from the dead and that he was the 0.99

01:00:26 bastard son of a whore and that the virgin birth was not literal and that the Bible was not inerrant. 0.97

01:00:32 you had that in southern baptist seminaries and and so there was a time where it's like 1.00

01:00:37 this is these were the fights and then and then another big fight was against atheism

01:00:42 yeah like by god's grace i mean we have to take the winds where we have them and and celebrate

01:00:48 the goodness of god um there are still atheists today but here's the deal there's less there are

01:00:52 not is like atheism is not um it's not cool like it was in the 90s in the 90s the new atheists and

01:01:00 and back in the day, Christopher Hitchens and these kinds of, you had smart atheists. They

01:01:05 were smart, right? And so you had to have Titan, you know, a Christian apologist who

01:01:10 were able to deal with their arguments and some would do it from, you know, a presuppositional

01:01:15 element, some evidential, some, you know, the classical methods, probing of the classical

01:01:20 apologist, you know, framework. And they had to put in hours and study and then just racking up

01:01:27 debate after debate after debate and it was a battle it was a legitimate battle for the christian

01:01:32 battle for inerrancy of scripture battle for uh the existence of god uh battle against atheism 0.95

01:01:38 and now today like there's like seven atheists and they're all retarded you know what i mean like 0.95

01:01:44 seriously people have seen real evil people don't even consider atheism and god and satan exist yeah 0.93

01:01:48 they don't even consider atheism anymore if somebody still despises christianity

01:01:52 tip like like when i was growing up as an older millennial i'm almost 40 now um when i was growing

01:01:58 up um if you didn't like christianity you would just you were an atheist now if you don't like

01:02:03 christianity um you you pick another religion and if you're um and if you're white you know and

01:02:09 you're like well i can't do the muslim thing um or i can't do the hindu thing or whatever um then

01:02:14 then you're literally you you pick paganism i never thought i would see that there is legitimately a

01:02:20 resurgence of Thor worshippers. There are more Thor worshippers in these United States than there

01:02:26 are atheists. And here's the deal, though, right? Credit where credit is due, honor where honor is 0.75

01:02:30 due. It's because these titans in the faith, in the Christian faith of yesteryear, who most of

01:02:37 them are now gone, they so wiped the floor with the atheist that now people are embarrassed to

01:02:44 be an atheist. Even James Lindsay, I think, now calls himself an agnostic. And he was a part of 0.90

01:02:48 the new atheist i mean he devoted his his early years to trying to destroy the christian faith 0.91

01:02:53 and then and even he and and he is perfectly okay with publicly being retarded and even for him he's 0.99

01:03:00 like i don't even want to admit that i'm an atheist because this is such a stupid position it is so 1.00

01:03:05 stupid and and it is because of men like sproll and men like macarthur and these giants in the 1.00

01:03:11 christian faith they made atheism embarrassing they made it they made it embarrassing to be 1.00

01:03:17 an atheist. So my whole point is to say, you've got all these generals in the last war being

01:03:23 cleaned off the field in the providence and sovereignty of God. And I'm not saying anything

01:03:30 to disparage anyone. The last war was a real war. And those last generals fought valiantly,

01:03:37 and in large part, in many ways, with those particular battles, not every battle, that's why

01:03:41 we have some battles today, but with those particular battles that were significant,

01:03:45 that did matter. Those generals, they fought valiantly, and I would argue in large part,

01:03:49 they won. They actually won. Praise God for R.C. Sproul. Praise God for John MacArthur.

01:03:55 Praise God for Votie Bauckham. Praise God for these men. They fought. They won. But those are

01:04:01 not the battles we're facing right now. The battles we're facing right now, I would argue

01:04:06 that they're far more political than they are theological. Here's another big theological one.

01:04:12 it was inerrancy of scripture, it was atheism.

01:04:13 Another one was open theism.

01:04:15 You remember when that was like, that was a thing.

01:04:17 Early 2000s kind of, right? 1.00

01:04:19 Again, retarded, but yes, early 2000s. 1.00

01:04:20 I remember even within the vineyard movement, 1.00

01:04:25 there was like, they had this conference,

01:04:27 this annual conference,

01:04:28 or maybe it was once a year or once every two years.

01:04:31 And it was like, it was smaller

01:04:32 from the main like vineyard conference.

01:04:34 And it was like vineyard theologians

01:04:36 or something like that.

01:04:37 And the main thing that everyone was talking about,

01:04:39 not just in the sessions,

01:04:40 But at lunchtime and during the breaks, all the buzz was open theism.

01:04:46 Oh, so-and-so is an open theist.

01:04:48 Like, tell me about open theism.

01:04:50 And it's like, open theism is a heresy.

01:04:53 And it was like, it was being entertained as though it was not only plausible,

01:04:59 but as though it was respectable, as though it was credible.

01:05:03 I was an adult.

01:05:05 I was young, but a young adult at a time.

01:05:07 It wasn't that long ago.

01:05:08 This is 10 years ago, 15 years.

01:05:10 ago and so there were all these these church growth movement largely didn't last either and

01:05:15 a lot of churches the emergent church emergent church they'll still be attractional but they're

01:05:20 not to the degree that that early 2000s church growth emerging church movement was because

01:05:25 the reformer surgeon said no no at the core level like church has to be different than the world

01:05:30 that that's right yeah so you had your um your rob belts yeah like those were big battles a ton

01:05:35 of people were following those guys to help and embracing heresies. Moving forward, though,

01:05:42 I don't think those are the primary battles. It's not to say doctrine doesn't matter. Doctrine

01:05:47 always matters, always. But a lot of those fights, we're not fighting, at least not to the same

01:05:52 degree now as these previous leaders were fighting then because they fought well and because they

01:05:58 actually racked up some Ws. They actually won. And so a lot of what we're fighting now is we're

01:06:05 not fighting against open theism like we were 10, 15 years ago. We're not fighting against

01:06:11 people denying inerrancy of scripture like we were 20, 30 years ago. We're not fighting against

01:06:16 the emergent church movement and all these different heresies because a lot of those

01:06:22 fights were fought and fought well. And a lot of what we're fighting now, I think, is more

01:06:28 political. And I think some of these guys who fought those battles well, God has seen fit to

01:06:34 retire and to bring home. And it's not to disparage them. They fought well. It's their time. God

01:06:40 numbers the hairs on our head. He numbers our days. He brought them home. But I do think that

01:06:45 we are going to require a new batch of leaders for some of these new battles. I think there's

01:06:50 something to be said, too, for a whole generation. I'll take them as the exception to the rule. 0.95

01:06:55 But this generation is very much so marked by unbelief. I think of the elephant room. Who are

01:07:00 the leaders the young leaders who are going to kind of inherit the future uh david platt no james

01:07:05 mcdonald td jakes matt chandler tons of names joshua harris who apostatized he didn't just

01:07:12 disqualify himself he abandoned james mcdonald is and abandoned his wife abandoned the faith

01:07:17 abandoned his wife so if you take this generation as a whole some exceptions the great men the

01:07:21 macarthur's the bockham's the others but those they're the minority report to in many ways 20

01:07:27 years of a lot of unbelief, of a lot of sin. And so there's something to be said, too. You won the

01:07:33 battles that you were there to fight. You helped foster and disciple those that are going to fight

01:07:37 the next battles. But all in all, this generation, I'm going to wrap it up. I'm going to shut down

01:07:42 the ministries of the David Platt's, the Matt Chandler's of the world. We're not going to see

01:07:46 them go far. And again, for you, the faithful, God bless you. Thank you for your work. I helped

01:07:51 you to win these battles. But also, too, there's a different fight ahead, and that's just a fight

01:07:56 that I'm not going to bring you to.

01:07:57 Yeah, it's like Moses, right?

01:07:59 Joshua didn't just get to go into the promised land

01:08:02 to have a picnic.

01:08:04 He was going to cross the Jordan River, 0.84

01:08:06 go into the promised land to embark on war, conquest. 1.00

01:08:10 It's a conquest of Canaan. 0.73

01:08:12 So it's not like Moses did all the work

01:08:14 and then he fought all the battles

01:08:16 and then Joshua, the battles are done.

01:08:17 No, it's a new set of battles for a new generation

01:08:20 of the people of God with new leaders, Joshua and Caleb.

01:08:23 and uh and god saw fit that uh that moses would be done and if anything harder battles were ahead

01:08:30 more difficult 40 years with israelites in the wilderness was pretty rough i gotta give

01:08:34 moses credit there but to be fair that was also a brutal i mean moses literally had to spend 40

01:08:39 years with the most unbelieving stiff-necked rebellious complaining and grumbling people

01:08:45 on the planet so quite a battle yeah it's like that's like that sounds anti-semitic that's

01:08:50 that's literally scripture i mean god literally like he's like this is these are such stiff-necked

01:08:57 people i mean at one point he's like i'm just gonna kill moses let's just start over me and you

01:09:01 you know you're my boy like and moses is like having to remind god of his covenant you know 0.73

01:09:05 god don't do it you know because then the egyptians and all these different peoples will

01:09:09 say you just brought us out into the wilderness to kill us you know and um and so for your namesake

01:09:14 not for the not for their sake because i know there's literally no appeal um on the basis of

01:09:19 the character of Israel whatsoever. Moses was smart. He was like, all right, there's the Jewish

01:09:26 people and they're about to be wiped out by God himself. And I got to try to argue with God not 0.95

01:09:33 to do it. And I will appeal to the character of the Jewish people, not at all, because God will 1.00

01:09:39 literally kill them if I remind him any more of their character. But I will appeal to God's 0.96

01:09:42 character as being slow to anger, being merciful, being compassionate, and maybe he'll let them

01:09:47 live. And he did. So Moses had some battles. He had to put up with Israel. My goodness. I feel

01:09:53 like we have to put up with Israel a little bit too. And my goodness, I think I can speak for 1.00

01:09:57 the entire world, the entire UN that just walked out of a Netanyahu speech. Moses, we get it. We 0.54

01:10:03 know putting up with Israel. That's pretty tough. But the point is, yes, that was a tough battle, 1.00

01:10:08 but you're right. Joshua didn't just have to put up with grumblers and complainers. He had to deal

01:10:13 with man-eating giants, getting a little weird here,

01:10:16 but that's, I actually think that's in the text.

01:10:17 Laying siege to cities.

01:10:18 Laying siege to cities that were trying to absolutely destroy, 0.94

01:10:22 actually kill in warfare, the Israelites. 0.57

01:10:26 And so Joshua had to, Moses had to wander, 0.66

01:10:29 lead the people in wandering.

01:10:30 Joshua had to fight.

01:10:32 And I think we have some huge fights.

01:10:35 That honestly might be a good analogy, 1980 to 2020,

01:10:38 kind of an in-between.

01:10:40 Wandering.

01:10:41 A holding up the troops, getting them ready.

01:10:42 Because of unbelief.

01:10:43 Yeah, right. 0.97

01:10:45 That's why the Israelites didn't get to get there sooner, right? 0.61

01:10:48 So it's like the Israelites, 0.84

01:10:49 it's like you could have actually kicked out all of the pagans 0.97

01:10:53 and all of the foreign peoples who worship foreign gods sooner. 0.96

01:10:58 But you had to embark on that part of the work 40 years later

01:11:04 than you otherwise would have because of your unbelief.

01:11:07 And I feel that's a great point, Wes.

01:11:09 like i feel like 1980 to 2020 um we actually could have maybe been fighting some of the church

01:11:16 actually speaking to some of these issues of like hey maybe we don't do mass immigration maybe we

01:11:20 don't invite we've had heart for 15 years right it's not going great civil rights act not going

01:11:25 great maybe we don't do an mlk 50 conference or you know honoring a guy who was a serial adulterer

01:11:32 right and a heretic maybe we don't do that but because it was this season of unbelief like like

01:11:38 what did i say like man we're cooking right now what did i say what was one of the premier things

01:11:42 that that the few had to fight against the many atheism i mean what embodies unbelief more than

01:11:47 than the disbelief in there even being a god that the the mere existence of god so you're fighting

01:11:54 against unbelief for 40 years and and so because you're fighting at a theological faith level

01:12:00 because the people christians themselves are are giving in left and right to unbelief and

01:12:05 apostatizing like Joshua Harris and all the rest, because you can't get faith right. You don't get

01:12:11 to get politics and the country right. And so then all these battles get pushed off. But those

01:12:16 faithful men, your Sprouls, your MacArthur's, your Bauckham's, those faithful men, they were the

01:12:21 minority report. They were the remnant. They fought. They fought. And by God's grace through

01:12:27 them. Not that the whole country returned to faith in Jesus, but many did, and they equipped

01:12:35 guys like me and you. We were reading Votie Bauckham. We were reading John MacArthur. We

01:12:39 were reading R.C. Sproul. And then they turned us on to even better guys, the dead guys. So then

01:12:44 we're reading Voss, and then we're reading this, and we're reading that, and learning. And so now

01:12:48 we care very much and talk on this show very much about political issues. But we're not talking

01:12:55 about political issues as crisis conservatives we didn't just come on the scene where uh where

01:13:01 the you know the only thing that we've ever lived and and eaten and breathed was politics no you and

01:13:07 i both had 10 20 year season of reformed theology yep reading writing highlighting putting like

01:13:15 john macarthur's in your veins sprawl's in your veins you're listening to the you know the bonds

01:13:21 and debates and all like and that's and and i praise god for that because i would be a liability

01:13:26 if i did not have that foundation so it was 40 years in the wilderness and most of the people

01:13:31 are unbelieving but a few of the people are remnant and then the next generation your joshua's

01:13:36 and caleb's are listening to the remnant and not to the masses and they get the foundation

01:13:41 the faith foundation the theological foundation in their bones and then when it comes their time

01:13:46 to lead they're ready for the political fight right because the theological formation is

01:13:51 already there and i think that's that's what's happening and the fight galvanizes people like

01:13:55 honestly like israel was complaining a lot less when they're true toppling down walls they're

01:14:00 laying siege they're going to war they still had sin in the camp to deal with uh with you think

01:14:04 about aiken but practically the battle was the time now for everybody to show up but you had to

01:14:09 get to that stage you had to go through the wilderness you had to learn the lessons there

01:14:13 so once you arrived at the fight everyone said this is what we're here for we need to run them

01:14:18 down like that's a big thing god's emphasizing i'm going to bring you into the land it has a lot

01:14:22 of promises be careful though because you will be tempted to pity to not run them down to just go

01:14:27 back you need to understand this what's at stake here and isn't that exactly where we're at right

01:14:33 now you say run them down like i remember that was the phrase because i taught through joshua

01:14:36 you know not that long ago um you know we spent like i don't it was a while we spent you know

01:14:41 probably better part of better part of a year i think it was like seven eight months uh in the

01:14:47 book of joshua and i kept using that phrase run them down what you see again and again throughout

01:14:52 the book of uh of joshua is uh that god would would grant courage right that's the first thing

01:14:58 that when he calls you know joshua like um is be strong and courageous three times be strong and

01:15:05 only i will do this for you and that for you the only condition is only that you be strong and

01:15:10 courageous um and but then when he calls joshua to lead um the armies of israel the armies of the

01:15:16 living God into battle against formidable opponents. And I believe some of them literally

01:15:20 like, like, like biologically giants. Um, and when he, when he leads them to, to fight against

01:15:26 people that, that, that could have been twice their size, um, in a, in a literal sense, uh,

01:15:33 they would get victory. But then one of the, the emphases that reoccurs throughout the book of

01:15:39 Joshua is, um, okay, you got victory, but that's not enough. Um, you need to, uh, they're on the

01:15:45 retreat all right we won nope run them down finish the victory um don't like the whole 0.99

01:15:51 emphasis of of and they don't always do it perfectly because again it's Israel that we're

01:15:56 talking about but but they uh one of the big things uh reoccurring themes is um you're not 0.81

01:16:01 just going and and uh conquering Canaan you're you're actually called to uh to drive them all

01:16:09 out all of them so it's not just we're going to conquer you know Jericho and they'll still be 0.99

01:16:14 natural, you know, Jericho citizens living and will allow them to keep their city and keep their

01:16:19 walls and keep their resources. But you're under, you know, Israel's jurisdiction now. No, no, you 0.86

01:16:25 have to actually destroy all of them. So there were some cases where some Canaanites drive them 1.00

01:16:31 out of Canaan. Other cases where it was eradicate them. And that was the call of God at that time.

01:16:37 And I look at where we're at now and it's like, that's precisely what we need. We have like,

01:16:41 in the wake of charlie kirk's assassination and all these things going on we have more momentum

01:16:47 on the right than than i think there's ever been more political momentum on the right to save our

01:16:52 country and to crush the left than i've ever witnessed in my lifetime and uh the trump

01:16:59 administration's response wes what is it are we running them down we have 400 000 coins with his

01:17:05 name on them excellent news we've won great great news we're making a new coin

01:17:11 yeah oh and anti-semitism laws and it's like don't worry could could we uh could we make sure

01:17:17 that the left stops killing christians best i can do is anti-semitism earlier today uh ice

01:17:22 protesters surrounded in ice facility in chicago they're shoving vehicles tossing rocks at officers

01:17:28 like we're in the middle of war you have a leftist terror network with different avenues of funding

01:17:33 different visible organizations it's like could we please get that dismantled assets frozen

01:17:38 champ we saved tiktok by selling it to israel you're this is what you voted for right isn't

01:17:44 that crazy no i think about that uh we we got tiktok out of the hands of uh of china and into

01:17:50 the hands of israel here's here's when you know it's we know you thought it was impossible we did

01:17:55 it for you you you know it's bad when um i'm tempted right now to get my phone out and tweet

01:18:01 um rare bill gates w oh yeah i don't think there's ever been a time in living memory where

01:18:09 bill gates has done something positive and even microsoft bill gates company they just came out

01:18:15 i believe it was yesterday uh that it was at least announced and said uh yeah so we discovered that

01:18:21 uh microsoft you know uh surveillance technology and things uh was being used by israel uh with a

01:18:28 mass surveillance policy partnerships with the idf and they were using the data to surveil

01:18:33 civilians civilians they enter their partnership and so microsoft ended their part so but here's

01:18:37 my point when microsoft bill gates is ending his relationship with israel but all of our

01:18:44 politicians are overdoing a photo op in israel right and trump is we got to get tiktok away

01:18:50 from china but let's give it to israel um and there's more momentum on the right in the wake

01:18:56 of charlie kirk's assassination for political action than ever before and we're not running

01:19:02 them down that's the point we're not doing what joshua did we're not doing like but i feel like

01:19:07 that's that's seems to be um the this current moment that we're in is moses is is being removed

01:19:17 and that and that doesn't mean moses is like yes moses messed up we know we know the story

01:19:22 um you know and that's part of why he didn't get to enter into the land of canaan but but the that

01:19:28 the headline is moses was faithful right moses was faithful but his time was done and so moses

01:19:34 is being removed and we're not saying that to say all these old leaders there must have been

01:19:38 something i bet you you know vodibachum had some kind of secret sin and that's not saying that at

01:19:43 all if anybody says that uh shame on you don't say that um what we are saying is like moses

01:19:49 A lot of these men, John MacArthur's and R.C. Sproul's and Votie Bauckham's, were faithful men.

01:19:55 But every man, eventually, his leg of the race, he passes the baton. He's done.

01:20:00 And it feels like the next phase that we're going into is a Joshua phase, moving from unbelief to war. 0.88

01:20:08 So moving from fighting our own personal unbelief to fighting actual enemies of God. 0.75

01:20:15 nations that are conspired against the people of God. It seems like that's where we're going

01:20:21 with, and there'll be, it's a new generation, a new battle, and there'll be new leaders that

01:20:26 the Lord appoints. But the spirit of Joshua and Israel at that time that we need is a run-them-down 0.90

01:20:32 spirit, not just a little victory. You know, Antifa is now labeled a terrorist organization.

01:20:39 We did it.

01:20:40 Great. And so what's come about, is anyone in jail? Have there been any punishments for those

01:20:48 who want to kill Christians and kill children? Has anything happened? No, no. But we made a new 0.99

01:20:55 coin. We're working on some anti-Semitism laws. We made sure that Israel can now be trusted with 0.87

01:21:01 TikTok instead of China. And yeah. I think we did it. Yeah. And you know what? I think that 0.94

01:21:09 We're talking about spiritual leaders within the reform movement, like, you know, sprawling these guys.

01:21:15 But I think we need it politically, too.

01:21:17 I'm just going to say it right now.

01:21:19 I'm not trusting the plan.

01:21:21 I'm out.

01:21:22 I'm not trusting the plan.

01:21:23 I hope Trump does some good.

01:21:24 I hope to have egg on my face.

01:21:27 And if he does some good, I'll praise him for it. 1.00

01:21:28 Chimp, praise, chimp, praise. 0.62

01:21:30 We know the routine. 0.92

01:21:31 You know, rinse and repeat.

01:21:32 But I'm going to say, go on public record right now and say, I'm not holding my breath.

01:21:37 i am not trusting the plan and uh just like moses just like sprawl just like on the theological side

01:21:44 on the political side we need the next guy yep we need the next guy because uh trump at the end of

01:21:51 the day he's done some good and i praise god for it um but at the end of the day the facts are uh

01:21:57 he is a 1990s liberal democrat that's all he ever was that's all he's ever going to be um and things

01:22:04 that were just so bad in america that by comparison yeah that that was that was way better

01:22:10 way better 1990s liberal democrat is basically a fascist compared to you know how progressive 0.54

01:22:17 things are better than the black indian woman that was running against him right so yeah exactly so 0.90

01:22:21 praise god um but we just have to remember at the end of the day that uh trump trump's not going to 0.63

01:22:27 do it uh so we it's time to cross the jordan right it's time to cross the rubicon uh cross

01:22:33 the Jordan, we need Joshua, not Moses. Not just a wanderer who leads the people into the land,

01:22:42 into the promise, but someone who now is at the banks of the land, sees that it's inhabited by 0.94

01:22:48 foreigners who worship foreign gods and who hate the people of God and who's ready to fight and 0.98

01:22:52 run them down. That's where we're at. I think we're there politically. We got to get some leaders out, 1.00

01:22:57 new batch in. We're there theologically within the church. God has removed certain leaders who

01:23:02 were faithful for a time and what god gave to them but we need new leaders to rise up um that's

01:23:07 where we're at as the church as a country and um that's i don't know that's my assessment of when

01:23:13 i try to think god what are you up to why so many heroes and they really are heroes and they and

01:23:18 they must be honored but why so many heroes being taken from us in in a very short span of time

01:23:24 all all at once uh seemingly all right let's do some super chats that'll preach and we can call

01:23:29 it. All right. Nick Bonner,

01:23:32 a great supporter. Thanks so much, Nick.

01:23:33 Nick gave $20. He said

01:23:35 this, their theology may be horrendous, 1.00

01:23:37 but I must admit that black churches 0.97

01:23:39 school us in the music department. 0.58

01:23:41 That's a controversial take. I disagree.

01:23:43 I have a response, but go ahead. I was just going to

01:23:45 say, different peoples worship differently. Even

01:23:47 perfectly, theologically perfect churches. 1.00

01:23:50 Germans, they're going to have the 0.99

01:23:51 hands at their side, and they're 0.98

01:23:53 going to be the frozen chosen. Ethiopia,

01:23:55 even a church with great theology, all of that, 0.88

01:23:57 they're going to be more exuberant. So

01:23:59 is their music more lively upbeat exuberant yes yes is that fitted to the african people

01:24:04 yes it's not my personal flavor yeah it's not my personal flavor and i'm gonna get what he's saying

01:24:09 i'm gonna go a little stronger than that i get what he's saying too nick bonner is great he's

01:24:12 a great supporter regular supporter of the channel thank you nick thanks for tuning in

01:24:16 um but i will say this so there is a sense of um you know different strokes for different folks

01:24:22 you know there's something to be said for that at the same time though um i think there's a

01:24:28 little bit of license a little bit of wiggle room um when it comes to being all things to all men

01:24:33 but when we're talking about the lord's day um i am i'm a regular principle of worship kind of guy

01:24:39 and so i do think that lord's day corporate worship is regulated um quite strictly by the

01:24:46 word of god and so i would say um that yeah the black church um it has more lively music than we

01:24:53 do uh but i also would say i don't know if they're keeping with the regular principle of worship 0.90

01:24:58 You're telling me symbols hidden in the layers of your garments

01:25:00 coming out for the chorus? 1.00

01:25:02 I think part of the reason that the black church

01:25:04 has more lively music is for the very same reason 1.00

01:25:08 that they also have more atrocious theology.

01:25:11 I don't think those two...

01:25:12 So my point is, I don't think those two things

01:25:15 are severed from one another.

01:25:16 So their preaching is enthusiastic,

01:25:19 but its substance is heretical.

01:25:21 Their worship is very musical and lively.

01:25:23 but also i think that uh much of it not all but much of it is not

01:25:30 befitting um the context and the regulative principle and to be fair a lot

01:25:35 of what you could call white worship music so your hill songs and others

01:25:38 those are also bad theology and it does kind of track that and also not

01:25:42 fitting other regular principle right but they have bridges that swell and

01:25:46 they use music and different elements to elicit emotional responses whereas the

01:25:51 words themselves you actually look at this and like you didn't want

01:25:53 heaven without us hmm yeah i'm not actually seeing that one right yeah good point no white people can

01:25:58 do it too um all right uh starch manning he's got two there uh each five dollars so uh ten bucks

01:26:05 from starch manning thank you we appreciate that very kind yeah i'll read the question i'll let you

01:26:09 take um a stab at it first west and then i'll give my thoughts uh why are white evangelicals unable

01:26:14 to reckon with the white supremacy in our church history or hear the dog whistles uh in phrases like

01:26:22 the great replacement, and then he continues, he says, or the cruelty in arguing that race is a

01:26:29 social construct when it's been very much a reality in the history of this country. What

01:26:35 do you think, Wes? It's worded a little weirdly. I'm not sure what that middle part, the dog whistle

01:26:39 and great replacement, but it seems like what he's kind of saying is why do white evangelicals

01:26:43 struggle with the idea of race? Why do they struggle with those Europeans that colonized

01:26:47 and brought Christianity to the world. 0.70

01:26:48 Why are you constantly apologizing for that

01:26:51 and struggling with white guilt?

01:26:53 Like race is a real thing.

01:26:54 It's not just a social construct.

01:26:55 It's in DNA, blood, bone marrow.

01:26:56 Right, because even the conservative guys,

01:26:58 when they pushed back against BLM

01:27:00 and we was kings and all this kind of black people are great

01:27:05 and the only things that's ever been bad about them

01:27:07 is because they're victims and have been oppressed

01:27:09 and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

01:27:10 And so when BLM and wokeness

01:27:12 and all that stuff was going on,

01:27:13 there were conservatives who pushed back.

01:27:16 they were a little cowardly and a little late but eventually they pushed back but even the ones who 0.99

01:27:21 pushed back they pushed back to say um black people aren't that great but neither are white 0.98

01:27:25 people you know and um and you're doing identity uh politics you know uh by you know saying that 0.96

01:27:32 you know i'm black and these are my people but no one should be doing it um like the way that

01:27:38 it was pushed back against instead of saying because what should have been said and i'll

01:27:42 probably get clipped for this. But what should have been said is, hey, cut it out. You need to

01:27:48 grow up. Stop throwing a fit. You're throwing a tantrum. Stop being a little boy. You're whining

01:27:53 and crying about something that's ultimately your fault. Yeah. Stop blaming it on other people.

01:27:59 It's your fault. Because here's the deal. It's like, well, slavery. The richest black people

01:28:07 on god's green earth are african americans if slavery never happened then you would be in a 0.96

01:28:14 grass hut yeah right well we need reparations your reparations are that you get to live in america 0.97

01:28:20 you're welcome you're welcome you get to have the christian religion that's live better than 0.75

01:28:25 your ancestors the greatest moment in history for any brown or black country is the moment

01:28:31 that the white man's ships arrive on your shore

01:28:34 because he brings the gospel of Jesus Christ.

01:28:37 He catechizes you and your children.

01:28:39 He brings exports.

01:28:40 He brings hospitals, medicine, life expansion increases,

01:28:45 GDP and resources increase, medicine increases,

01:28:49 and most importantly, you get taught the gospel of Jesus Christ

01:28:51 so that you can live longer on earth

01:28:53 and then go to heaven instead of hell.

01:28:57 That's historically what has happened. 0.97

01:29:00 That doesn't mean white people haven't sinned. That doesn't mean that they did it all right, 0.88

01:29:04 that there weren't abusive slave masters, that there weren't, like, that's not to absolve white 0.69

01:29:07 people of sin. But I'm saying on the big picture to say, well, black people are victims, black

01:29:11 people are oppressed, and white people owe us something, and it's all your fault. That's insane. 1.00

01:29:16 That's absolutely insane. And here's the deal. I think getting to, you know, the question from

01:29:20 Starsh Manning is a lot of the pushback that eventually conservatives finally mustered enough

01:29:27 courage to say is well hey hey hey look can we can we just agree to a truce and and and uh let's

01:29:33 just you know we just won't talk about race at all right you know there's mistakes on both sides 0.56

01:29:38 mistakes on both sides um no no no um that that's that's not actually the solution white people are

01:29:47 sinners who need jesus um within white european history there has been sin that has required the

01:29:53 blood of Jesus. But on the whole, for a thousand years, European people have been worshiping Jesus

01:30:01 as sinners, but sinners saved by grace. And on the whole, non-European people, much of the rest 0.93

01:30:08 of the world, has been worshiping demons. European people have been building cathedrals. 0.86

01:30:14 Non-European people have been building grass huts. And for those who are of non-European descent, 0.99

01:30:20 but live in the western world you are exceedingly blessed and the response shouldn't be uh let's

01:30:27 push back against wokeness and just say nobody talk about race no the response should be um stop

01:30:33 whining stop throwing a fit get it together god has blessed you and he blessed you in large part

01:30:40 through white people so stop doing it and also as for you and your house do your part to change the 0.89

01:30:46 FBI crime statistics and stop killing people. That should have been the response. But instead, 0.96

01:30:54 we're just, race is a social construct. The real solution is to say that race doesn't exist at all.

01:30:58 And I do think that that has been a mistake. And I do think, I'm just going to say this,

01:31:02 I'm going to say it very carefully, very shortly, briefly, and we'll move on and I won't reiterate

01:31:06 it. I do think that is one of the reasons why some of the old heroes who really are heroes,

01:31:12 who we really do honor, God has removed from the board

01:31:16 and is bringing in new guys because race is a social construct

01:31:21 and there's sin on both sides is actually not the solution.

01:31:27 Race is real and ancestry is real.

01:31:33 Heritage matters.

01:31:35 Our future matters.

01:31:37 Natural affections matter.

01:31:38 and history of what actually happened matters.

01:31:43 All these things actually matter.

01:31:44 And there is a race problem 0.71

01:31:46 in these United States of America.

01:31:48 There is.

01:31:49 And that doesn't mean that it can't be changed,

01:31:51 but it first has to at least be acknowledged.

01:31:53 And we can't just have a colorblind solution.

01:31:57 No, God made the peoples of the earth.

01:31:59 He made us distinct.

01:32:00 We should acknowledge those distinctions,

01:32:02 live according to those distinctions.

01:32:04 And we can do so without having animosity,

01:32:07 without having hatred,

01:32:08 without having arrogance, without having cruelty,

01:32:10 and hopefully on the other side of the equation,

01:32:12 without having envy, without having jealousy,

01:32:14 without having bitterness, without throwing a fit,

01:32:16 without burning half the country down

01:32:18 when somebody overdoses on fentanyl.

01:32:21 That wouldn't happen.

01:32:23 You're like, I have it on good authority.

01:32:24 Right? 0.99

01:32:25 You assassinate a white Christian man, 0.97

01:32:27 and there's a 100,000-person church service. 0.98

01:32:32 With a million people watching.

01:32:34 With a million people watching. 0.95

01:32:35 A black man overdoses on fentanyl, 1.00

01:32:38 and they burn down half the country. 0.99

01:32:42 And kill 12 people.

01:32:44 A few of these things are different, right?

01:32:45 Do you notice a few distinctions, a few differences?

01:32:48 And so that has to be talked about.

01:32:50 And that's a difference politically, left and right.

01:32:52 That's also a difference racially.

01:32:54 It is, and it has to be able to be said.

01:32:56 And I think some of our heroes were not able to say that.

01:33:00 Still, good men, worthy of being honored,

01:33:02 and they fought the fight that was in front of them.

01:33:05 But there's another leg of the race.

01:33:07 Now it's time for Joshua to run them down.

01:33:09 We're not just content with that.

01:33:11 We're not just content with going back to the 90s.

01:33:13 No, we're going to go further.

01:33:16 Yep.

01:33:17 Nope.

01:33:17 Good way of saying it.

01:33:19 So the man behind the painting, this isn't a super chat, but it's a good question.

01:33:23 It sounds like this is someone who's just getting into Christianity.

01:33:26 So he asks this.

01:33:27 He says, I'm just getting into Christianity. 0.95

01:33:29 Sorry if this question is stupid, but are all sin confessions supposed to be acknowledged publicly 0.95

01:33:35 to be considered repentance or is it between you and god we were talking earlier about you know 0.94

01:33:41 hey i was wrong here i was wrong here i'm going to acknowledge it in word and deed just for a

01:33:45 little bit of background the two words so confession and repentance confession is the

01:33:48 idea of the same word literally so literally to confess is to agree with god about severity of

01:33:54 your sin and then repentance is the process of turning changing so you confess your sin you say

01:33:59 to god i sinned and this was me it wasn't well i was in traffic and i was really stressed you

01:34:03 Not minimizing, not excusing, but acknowledging.

01:34:07 You turn to God and say, you've said this is sinful anger.

01:34:10 And this sinful anger reveals, for example, what Jesus says in the Sermon on the Mount,

01:34:15 wickedness and hatred in my heart, and I am hateful and angry.

01:34:19 But then that's not just enough to say, I'm guilty of it.

01:34:22 Then you go ahead and you turn from sin.

01:34:24 So, for example, if you stole from someone, you acknowledge to God, I stole, I robbed,

01:34:28 and I'm going to repent, which is to turn the other direction.

01:34:32 So I'm going to take this money that I was going to go home and gamble.

01:34:35 I'm going to take this money, and I'm going to give it back.

01:34:37 So confession, repentance.

01:34:40 Confession is always to the Lord.

01:34:41 Confession is to the person that you've harmed.

01:34:43 I think you would agree the repentance and the confession,

01:34:46 if they're privately, private sins, a sin against your spouse,

01:34:49 a sin against a friend, that's the extent that it needs to go.

01:34:52 Right.

01:34:52 So to answer the question, well said, Wes.

01:34:55 To answer the question, I think the confession needs to be

01:34:57 in the same context as the sin was committed.

01:35:00 you sinned against your wife then you need to confess to your lord um and your wife right so

01:35:05 it's always confession to the lord right um but uh but then also in terms of your confession to

01:35:11 men right the scripture says in the new testament i believe it's ephesians it says confess your

01:35:15 sins one to another that you might pray for one another that you might be healed um and restored

01:35:21 and so uh we're confessing our sins one to another but that doesn't mean every sin that i ever commit

01:35:26 It needs to be publicly broadcasted to the world.

01:35:29 You confess.

01:35:30 We're told to every friend.

01:35:31 That's right.

01:35:31 You confess in the same context that you sinned.

01:35:34 Sin against your wife, confess to your wife.

01:35:36 Sin against your kids, right?

01:35:38 You just, you lose your temper with your children.

01:35:41 That night, bedtime, during prayer time,

01:35:45 you need to, hey guys, I love you so much.

01:35:49 And dad needs to say, I need to confess.

01:35:52 I sinned against you.

01:35:54 I sinned against God first and foremost.

01:35:56 but I also sinned against you. I raised my voice. I lost my temper. I got angry and was impatient.

01:36:03 You were misbehaving and being disobedient. We've already talked about that, but you sinned,

01:36:10 but I sinned also. You're commanded to obey me, to seek to obey me, honor your father and mother

01:36:16 as you're seeking to obey the Lord. But I, you're not the only one in this house who's called to

01:36:21 obedience i am called to obedience i'm called to obey god and his word i didn't i sinned i messed

01:36:27 up um please forgive me so so confession should be in the content you sin against your kids

01:36:32 confess to the lord and your kids your wife to the lord and your wife um and if you and if you

01:36:38 mess up you sin uh publicly as a pastor before your congregation then you should confess to

01:36:43 your congregation um if it's something you say publicly on a podcast then you know that when

01:36:48 the lord brings conviction you should confess on the next podcast hey i miss this one i'm sorry

01:36:52 all right we've done that i got a church wrong and a date wrong and i came out the next one and

01:36:56 said i was wrong it should have been this that's right yeah it's just correcting it it's it's it's

01:37:01 acknowledging it's owning and here's the beautiful thing um the beautiful thing about the gospel

01:37:06 is that um confession is not for the purpose i mean there are wicked people who don't believe

01:37:12 the gospel they they say they're christians but in in function they don't actually believe the

01:37:16 gospel because they weaponize your confession and use it as leverage over you for the rest of your

01:37:21 life. God actually takes your confession and he casts your sin as far as the east is from the

01:37:25 west and he forgives, right? But sadly, there are many who even profess to be Christians who do not.

01:37:30 So you'll confess something and they'll actually, they'll take record of that. They'll clip it out

01:37:36 and they'll use it against you the rest of your life. But here's the beauty of confession. Forget

01:37:39 those guys, right? Forget those anti-Christ, right? I mean, that's literally anti-gospel,

01:37:45 anti-Christ, to take the past accounts of forgiven sin and hold it against the people of God. That's

01:37:53 literally the ministry of Satan, the accuser of the brethren. I mean, it really is an anti-Christ

01:37:57 ministry. So there will always be guys like that. And sadly, many of them will call themselves

01:38:01 Christians. Some of them will be pastors. There will always be guys like that. But the beauty is

01:38:07 that we're called to confess our sins one to another, that we might pray for one another,

01:38:12 that we might be condemned? No, healed. Or 1 John 1 7, 8, 9, walk in the light as he is in the light

01:38:18 and you will have fellowship with one another in the blood of Jesus Christ. His son cleanses us

01:38:24 from all sin. If we say we have no sin, if we don't confess, we deny that we've messed up. If

01:38:31 we say we have no sin, then the truth is not in us. But if we confess our sins, he is faithful

01:38:36 and just to forgive us our sins and not only forgive us, but to actually cleanse us of all

01:38:43 unrighteousness. That's the promise. That's the beauty. And so we confess our sin. Our confession

01:38:50 should be just as public or just as private as the committing of our sin. And we do it because

01:38:57 it's obedience to the Lord. He demands it, but also because our confession, when coupled with

01:39:02 repentance. Confession, owning, acknowledging the sin. Repentance, turning from the sin. Confession

01:39:07 and repentance, when coupled together appropriately in the same context that we messed up, confessing

01:39:12 and repenting in that same context, when that's done right, not only is it obedience to what God

01:39:17 commands, but it's also the secret sauce, the recipe for healing, for restoration, for change.

01:39:26 and so confession is good

01:39:29 and there will always be people

01:39:31 who will take your confessed sin

01:39:33 and weaponize it against you

01:39:35 but God takes your confessed sin

01:39:37 and forgives you

01:39:39 and cleanses you

01:39:40 and restores you

01:39:41 and the right people

01:39:43 who are like you

01:39:45 who also love Jesus

01:39:46 you'll only garner more

01:39:49 not less

01:39:50 but more of their respect

01:39:51 so that's an episode huh?

01:39:53 that's an episode

01:39:54 alright

01:39:55 we had two more super chats let me read through them quick one of them just says is something

01:39:58 we can tackle at some point uh nick boner again he said twenty dollars uh i've never understood

01:40:03 the regulative principle it seems more like a staunch old reformed tradition it is you write

01:40:09 on that's how you know it's good yeah sometimes i appreciate you elaboring on its biblical backing

01:40:15 sometime in the future that's a good good note that's great time we'll be able to touch on it

01:40:18 and then gabriel sent five dollars thanks gabriel he said thank you for the work you do

01:40:22 a gen z man many such cases god bless the gen z men they love us they bless them we're not gonna

01:40:27 win they're not a generation of unbelief to be honest yeah like they are the generation that 0.67

01:40:31 says there's some giants to kill let's go get there the joshua's yeah they're ready they're 0.99

01:40:36 like new atheist movement sounds like a bunch of gay retards now we're gonna go we're gonna go to 1.00

01:40:41 war with the infidel like gen z is uh incredibly based about 40 of them are gay furries but the 0.99

01:40:47 other 60% is incredibly based and I'm bullish on Gen Z. All right. Thanks for tuning in. We love 1.00

01:40:53 you guys. We appreciate you guys. This is Friday. Right now, we've got you on the live broadcast.

01:40:58 We've got you on the line. I'm just going to throw it out there. We need your help. We've

01:41:02 got big plans in the future. And this ministry, yeah, we have a few advertisers, but not many.

01:41:07 And we do a conference once a year and things like that. But for the most part, I've got a

01:41:13 book that I wrote, you know, that's a hundred pages long. It's, I, you know, wrote it on the

01:41:16 back of a napkin pretty much, you know, and sell it for 10 bucks online. Uh, the, the thing that

01:41:21 keeps the lights on, um, the thing that to where I'm able to employ Wes and, uh, and able to employ

01:41:26 Nathan with our tech, um, and, and to rent a studio and all these kinds of things and have

01:41:31 good equipment so we can have good production, um, so that we can get this kind of, of message

01:41:36 and content out to as many people as possible. Um, the only way is that like, like I think it's

01:41:42 about 70% of our revenue is your charitable giving. So this is a 501c3 nonprofit organization.

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The NXR Podcast - September 26, 2025

THE LIVESTREAM - Another Hero Has Fallen ｜ What Is God Doing？

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