The NXR Podcast - THE LIVESTREAM - Answering Kevin De Young’s Questions About Christian Nationalism

00:00:00 Leave us a five-star review on your favorite podcast platform.

00:00:03 I get it.

00:00:04 It's annoying.

00:00:05 Everybody asks, but I'm going to tell you why.

00:00:07 When you give us a positive review, what that does is it triggers the algorithm so that

00:00:12 our podcast shows up on more people's news feeds.

00:00:16 You and I both know that this ministry is willing to talk about things that most ministries

00:00:20 aren't.

00:00:21 We need this content for the glory of God to reach more people's ears.

00:00:30 So, just a few days ago, Kevin DeYoung, who is currently the presiding moderator over the PCA,

00:00:39 wrote an article explaining why he is not a Christian nationalist, and he specified six

00:00:44 particular questions that he would need answers to in order to perhaps be persuaded. That's what

00:00:51 we're going to be addressing today in this episode. We are Christian nationalists. We make

00:00:55 no apology for it. It is, we believe, the position of America historically and many European nations

00:01:02 and the absence of Christian nationalism has led to our sacred democracy, a raw democracy, 0.89

00:01:09 where a republic is nowhere to be found, radical globalism, an invasion of immigration from the

00:01:17 third world, and ultimately the destruction of these United States. We need to change. We need

00:01:23 serious change. We need to make this change quickly, and Christian nationalism is clearly 1.00

00:01:29 the way to go. We're going to be addressing all six of Kevin DeYoung's questions in this episode, 1.00

00:01:34 preparing you for the inevitable moments when you go home for the Christmas holidays and are asked

00:01:40 by your sweet grandmother, are you a Christian nationalist? What does that mean? Does that mean

00:01:45 that you hate certain people? Are you a racist? Are you anti-Semitic? There are good answers to

00:01:50 these questions and we'll provide them to the best of our ability in this episode today.

00:01:55 Tune in now.

00:02:05 GA.

00:02:06 We're back.

00:02:07 We are so back.

00:02:08 Happy Friday.

00:02:09 Happy Friday.

00:02:11 I've got a lot going on over here.

00:02:13 We've got Tree, who has joined us on the show, a major contributor.

00:02:18 When Antonio and I were doing the show without you,

00:02:21 when you were gone on your six-month leave for Thanksgiving,

00:02:24 as a true patriot, it was six months, but it was six days.

00:02:28 We didn't see that, right?

00:02:29 It was quite the trip.

00:02:30 We replaced you with tree, is how we refer to him.

00:02:35 I think it's a him.

00:02:36 I think so.

00:02:36 Christmas tree just felt too formal, right?

00:02:40 We were calling it Christmas tree,

00:02:41 and you could almost hear the tree responding saying,

00:02:43 hey, my dad was Christmas tree.

00:02:45 I'm just tree.

00:02:46 Call me tree.

00:02:47 but tree has contributed a lot uh some of the charts that you'll be seeing west likes to take

00:02:51 credit but uh i know tree knows we know who's cooking behind the scenes tree is tree is putting

00:02:56 up some numbers a charts so uh today we're going to be addressing the topic that i just spoke of

00:03:03 in the cold open well that's not everything going on in the set i i feel like this kind of needs a

00:03:07 little bit of an explanation yeah so we got tree we've got a little bit of garland here some lights

00:03:12 going on uh but yeah so we uh decided to make steak for lunch we were cooking quite literally

00:03:19 and figuratively and uh so we decided we didn't have time to go out we were just going to make

00:03:23 some steak and we did um if this was all that i was going to be eating and i'm going to use it

00:03:29 you know my bare hands to do it uh look at that i don't know if you can see that but that's red

00:03:33 i don't think we can cook that steak you did and you did a great job fantastic uh this is a a rare

00:03:39 steak and uh it's a filet mignon and i just want to say if you think that this is all i'll be eating

00:03:47 during the episode yeah that's true uh but this is this is like the hobbits you know we've had

00:03:53 breakfast have we had second breakfast i already ate a whole steak this is the second portion if

00:03:57 this was all i was having then people would start calling me william wolf tiny steak man uh but we

00:04:03 can't have that so we've got that going on we've got some delicious drinks we're ready for the show

00:04:08 all right well this term christian nationalism really has had some staying power and what i

00:04:12 love about it there's lots of different terms you're gonna do it i need you to lean into the

00:04:15 microphone as you chew nice and slow no just kidding um one of the reasons i think christian

00:04:21 nationalism has had some staying power there's lots of movements i'm trying here to be serious

00:04:26 go ahead this is a very christian nationalist thing to do oh absolutely red meat um 0.69

00:04:31 nathan literally just ruining all of our fun nathan just yelled from the sound booth please 0.94

00:04:38 don't eat in the mic we've got no you can you can see the chat everyone's going to agree with him

00:04:42 i'm going to push the mic away with each bite go ahead west feel free to make your thoughts along

00:04:47 um the reason christian nationalism i think has some staying power is because it's a great blend

00:04:52 of nationalism which is awesome but a natural category the nation exists for the nation's

00:04:58 benefit. The nation is not a tax farm. It's not GDP must go up. Nationalism, the nation for itself,

00:05:04 but it marries it to what man has inside of him, which is religion. So it's not just,

00:05:10 and man exists to have children and to work on a farm and to make money. And that's it. That's

00:05:15 what the nation does. I like how Stephen Wolf says, the nation helps secure man earthly and

00:05:20 heavenly good. And Christianity comes in and it does that in Christ. That it says, here's the

00:05:25 nation, and that's awesome. And also grace elevates nature. So you don't just have a nation

00:05:29 where like, well, it's safe and people make money, but it's also a brutal place to live. It's also a

00:05:35 place where people are executed in the town square for pickpocketing. No, nationalism that's 0.66

00:05:40 Christian, it makes it a place that people want to live. And so I would say for the last two,

00:05:44 three years, we've seen again and again, this one won't seem to go away. There's movements and

00:05:49 ideas and terms that won't seem to go away. People keep coming back to, they use as an insult

00:05:54 But what we've been doing, and like you said, we're unapologetic about it,

00:05:58 I actually think Christian nationalism is a great way to describe what we're doing.

00:06:01 New Christian right, that's another great way of talking about it.

00:06:04 But you've got both parts in there.

00:06:05 It's not just Christianity that levels, flattens nature.

00:06:09 It comes in and elevates and perfects nature. 0.98

00:06:12 Well said.

00:06:12 Yeah, you know Christian nationalism is not going away.

00:06:14 And yes, I am eating a steak on the show if you're tuning in just now.

00:06:17 It's like, why would he do that? 0.98

00:06:18 That's ridiculous. 0.98

00:06:19 We had steak for lunch. 0.98

00:06:20 There was some left over.

00:06:21 I'm feeling a little bit peckish.

00:06:23 little bit that's my question uh no cold steak's good um so i'm feeling a little peckish and if

00:06:29 you're like but is he holding it with his hand yes i am a brutal american i don't know what to tell

00:06:34 you it's christmas uh yeah so everything you just said is uh very well said in terms of christian

00:06:40 nationalism having staying power i think that's a good point that you made uh you know that

00:06:44 christian nationalism is here to stay uh because number one it's our history but then number two

00:06:50 all the usual suspects are coming out of the woodwork in order to say that it's somehow already

00:06:55 failed. So when you have Neil Shinvey, for instance, writing, saying, I'm going to work

00:06:59 on a project that's going to be called the rise and fall of Christian nationalism, when he should

00:07:03 be working on a project that's called the rise and fall of BLM and wokeness and all the things

00:07:10 that his pastor, J.D. Greer, supported, that would make a lot more sense. But you have guys trying

00:07:15 to say, hey, look, it's not really lasting. The fad is already ending. But the people who are

00:07:20 saying that are the people who have been betting the house on it ending. They need it to end.

00:07:26 And so Christian nationalism is here to stay. And I think that Kevin DeYoung raised pretty much, 0.94

00:07:32 none of them seemed, did any of the questions he raised seem unique to you? I feel like these are

00:07:37 the usual questions that we've received several times. I think a lot of guys have done a good

00:07:42 job answering them, but I think it's worth answering once more. None of them seem necessarily

00:07:47 unique or even really particularly insightful. If you read the whole longer article, it's on

00:07:53 Clearly Reformed. He gets into some of the more history. For example, Dabney was a Southern

00:07:58 theologian. He argued against the Establishment Clause, and he gets into some of the back and

00:08:02 forth there. So Kevin is a serious reader. He's well-read. He's well-informed. He's asking questions

00:08:07 with historical context to them. But the questions in and of themselves, I would say, these are

00:08:11 questions some of that we've answered two years ago. We've answered many times on the show. It's

00:08:16 funny relating to staying power just yesterday the guardian published uh a hit piece on men

00:08:21 trying to take away women's right to vote uh men advocating for the repeal of the 19th amendment

00:08:26 and who which men who would do that who who would they cite in that article that's trying to take

00:08:33 away who would be the first one that they cite in the article first one let me see i gotta find your

00:08:37 description a pastor and youtube personality who has been at the forefront of this brand

00:08:42 of misogynistic christian reaction who is this man can i meet him he sounds like a brutal american 0.60

00:08:49 he sounds like the kind of guy who would eat steak who would have a filet mignon in his cheek 0.77

00:08:53 sticking out protruding as he's talking on the podcast incredible that's what it sounds like but

00:08:57 the point is the guardians writing articles about christian nationalists and how they think the

00:09:01 country should be well christian nationalism is dead christian nationalism is this uh well all

00:09:06 the focus all the fire all the attention of the left is currently not all and not everyone in

00:09:11 this vein would literally call themselves Christian nationalists, but it is against nationalists who

00:09:16 are Christian. They can't stop talking about them. They can't stop retweeting. They can't 0.93

00:09:20 stop sharing their videos. Very much so. You think this is going away. You think, well,

00:09:24 we had the rise and now it's time to the fall. My friend, you are sorely mistaken. And in that vein,

00:09:30 I think it's time to get into the questions. These are some of the questions you should be

00:09:34 able to answer if you want to describe yourself as a Christian nationalist at Christmas. And I

00:09:38 questions that are worth pondering on so i'm going to read all six of them real quick cosmic

00:09:42 treason said repealing the 19th is not misogynistic it's something that you have to do

00:09:47 if you truly love women so true king yep so true all right here's all six questions i'm going to

00:09:52 read them quickly we'll jump to the first one so kevin de young he said you know i could be

00:09:56 convinced to be a christian nationalist here's some questions i have question one do you unequivocally

00:10:01 so this would be two christian nationalists unequivocally renounce anti-semitism racism

00:10:05 and nazism question two when and how does the nation act as a corporate moral person question

00:10:11 three what is the purpose of civil government question four what does it mean for the civil

00:10:15 magistrate to promote true religion question five was the first amendment a mistake question six

00:10:21 what is the historical example of the political order you would like to see in america so question

00:10:26 one do you unequivocally denounce anti-semitism racism and nazism um in 95 percent of cases

00:10:35 no because of who's asking the question and the person who's asking the question is the person

00:10:42 who sets the frame they're the ones who are either explicitly or implicitly defining the terms of

00:10:49 what it means to be racist what it means to be anti-semitic and so forth and so because those

00:10:56 questions tend to come the vast majority of the time from people who are either absolutely you

00:11:03 know marxist communist progressives or conservative and if you're just listening on apple or spotify

00:11:10 i'm giving some quotation marks air quotes here uh conservative but still exist within a 20th

00:11:16 century liberalist liberalism framework uh so when the question is coming from from that place

00:11:24 then yeah really just it doesn't mean anything and i'm not going to sit there and bend over

00:11:30 backwards and cry and apologize and say oh no no no mister please please i'm not one of them i'm

00:11:36 not one of the bad guys i swear yeah so um if the question is saying do you genuinely uh genuinely

00:11:43 hate um without any biblical justification whole groups of people universally not allowing for any

00:11:53 exception so you you hate an entire people group based on them solely belonging to that people

00:11:59 group with an unwillingness to see any exceptions to that general rule, but rather viewing it as

00:12:05 an ironclad universal rule, and you truly hate them without biblical justification, have malice

00:12:12 in your heart, and a desire, if you could, to harm them without fair trial, without being able to

00:12:20 establish evidence and true individual guilt. If that's the question, do you have that going on

00:12:28 inside of your heart, then the answer is a resounding no. No, I don't have that for any

00:12:33 people group in the world. But if you're saying that anti-Semitism is simply noticing certain

00:12:41 historical and even present day patterns as generalities, again, not universal, not each and

00:12:48 every individual person, but in general, that historically this is what has happened from a

00:12:54 particular group of people and still in present day this tends to still take place these things

00:13:01 and there's a disproportionate presence that is responsible for it and simply noticing that

00:13:08 and speaking to that makes you anti-semitic if that's your definition then sure right isn't it

00:13:16 profound we did an episode and if you haven't watched it yet you need to it was on uh the uh

00:13:22 event in World War II. We'll just put it that way. And we titled that video, New Saints,

00:13:26 New Devils, and a New Religion. And it is kind of incredible here that you have a Presbyterian

00:13:30 minister talking about a church kind of movement, a movement that calls itself Christian. The first

00:13:36 question out of his mouth about it, it's not about church establishment, it's not about the role of

00:13:40 government. His first question is, do you renounce racism and anti-Semitism and Nazism? It's like,

00:13:46 it's almost like the only thing that these people can think about. We gave the example again of

00:13:51 another reformed minister, John Piper, and the things that he wrote. It's so fascinating how

00:13:55 these reformed ministers, this seems to be the only moral category in some ways that they can

00:14:01 think of. And you can see it right here. The first question off his mind is, do you denounce X, Y,

00:14:07 and Z? And for the record, we have this idea of a struggle session, for example. Well, somebody got

00:14:12 struggle sessioned, or do you denounce? This was actually a tool. It's been used in many places at

00:14:17 different times. One of the most recent and widespread usages would have been in communist

00:14:21 China. So in communist China, if you were sensed or someone detected that you weren't quite

00:14:26 revolutionary enough, that you, you know, you were in favor of communism and the people and

00:14:31 the revolution, but your heart wasn't really in it. Well, you could be dragged up in front of the

00:14:35 town and subjected to a struggle session, in which case you could be beaten in front of the town

00:14:39 and you'd have to show your enthusiasm for revolution. You weren't just getting up there

00:14:44 to say, no, I agree with it. You were getting up there to be berated for the people to mock you

00:14:49 and for you to attempt to prove to them, no, no, no, no, no, no. I'm revolutionary enough. And you

00:14:55 kind of get a sense for that here. Grown men don't talk. Do you denounce? Do you denounce? Do you

00:15:00 decry? Grown men don't talk like that. Do you know who does? Communists who detect that you

00:15:05 are not revolutionary enough for their liking. Now, I'm not calling Kevin DeYoung a communist

00:15:10 in this sense but that is how radical revolutionary leftist movements have worked do you denounce do

00:15:17 you decry are you on board comrade that is how they've always attempted to frame the discussion

00:15:22 and when you have something like this hey here's three bad words do you want to distance yourself

00:15:26 from them that is a tool and a framing of the left to lock you down to say get in step these are the

00:15:32 views you're allowed to have and these are the views you are not do you affirm the good thing

00:15:37 and denounce the bad thing to which the only answer is i'm not going to play your game right

00:15:42 i'm not going to give you the answer that you want i can't do it right yep well said um i think

00:15:48 you know for most people who would side with kevin de young on this particular question

00:15:55 they would define racism as uh merely the belief that races exist yeah um and that there are

00:16:04 distinctions among races. That would actually make you racist, I think, in the mind of many who

00:16:11 are championing this recent article from Kevin DeYoung. And I think that that would probably

00:16:16 be true of Kevin DeYoung himself. Just the mere acknowledgement that all human beings

00:16:24 descended from Adam and that all human beings are made in the image of God, but that all human

00:16:30 beings through their ancestry and by way of God's providence and his good design

00:16:36 have formed over the centuries distinct races with differences and different strengths and

00:16:46 different weaknesses. I think that that would probably be enough to label you a racist. So

00:16:54 that that's why you you can't really answer these questions um because what it requires you to do is

00:17:02 just jump through hoop after hoop after hoop and and the denouncement purity test uh it once you

00:17:09 begin to play um it never stops there's there's another purity test there's another you know

00:17:16 purity test after that and after that and after that there's someone else that you have to denounce

00:17:21 something else that you have to denounce. And so at a certain point, you just have to be willing to

00:17:26 say, I'm just not going to play anymore. And you define your own terms. And as you seek to do that,

00:17:32 you try to use biblical definitions. So no, we do not unjustly and universally hate any one group

00:17:41 of people solely on the basis of their group identity belonging to a particular group that's

00:17:48 different than us um no uh we we don't have uh that kind of what we would call sinful hatred

00:17:56 sinful hatred it's unjustified um it's universal right so it's uh hating people who are not

00:18:03 actually even guilty um and it's on the basis of simply their birth um i don't know i don't know

00:18:10 anybody in our neck of the woods who holds that position i do know plenty of people myself

00:18:16 included, who would say, I recognize that by way of providence, through God's sovereignty,

00:18:22 he's created not just distinct people, individuals, but distinct peoples, groups of people that are

00:18:30 nations or ethnicities or races, and that these people are distinct. They're not interchangeable.

00:18:39 You can't just import Haitians and expect that they're going to be the same as heritage

00:18:45 Americans. So these people are different and there are actually particular besetting sins 1.00

00:18:55 belonging in general to particular peoples. Just as the Apostle Paul said, all Cretans 1.00

00:19:02 are lazy beasts, gluttons, liars. He was not saying that universally because he left Titus 0.99

00:19:11 in Crete to appoint some Cretan elders and he seems implied that he thought that some Cretans

00:19:16 would be up for this noble task. So he's not saying universally each and every single Cretan

00:19:22 who is currently alive on the planet but he is quoting a prophet of their own and agreeing with

00:19:27 it and saying this is true that in a general sense the Cretan people were a distinct people

00:19:32 they had distinct strengths and some distinct weaknesses and those weaknesses were specific

00:19:38 and he lists some of them. And we believe that still to this day, there are distinct peoples

00:19:44 with distinct strengths and distinct weaknesses, and that noticing, recognizing that, or saying

00:19:51 that out loud does not inherently place you into a sinful category, but it places you,

00:19:58 if you're able to do it, with character and maturity and without hatred, harboring unjustifiable

00:20:03 hatred in your heart, it puts you in the same category as the Apostle Paul, which is not a

00:20:08 bad category to be in yep and uh unlike christian nationalism those terms it's not grandma asks you

00:20:15 aren't you guys christian nationalism i've heard that's associated with racists the answer is not

00:20:19 to come back and say not only do i not denounce racism i am a racist i am anti-semitic i am a

00:20:25 nazi don't do that say yeah that's not the best way to frame those terms here's what i prefer to

00:20:29 say the for example exactly you just gave that's the best way to answer that question yeah that's

00:20:35 super helpful just like at a pastoral level um you're going home you're talking to extend family

00:20:40 members for the holidays don't don't just play the heel don't lean in don't lean in and play the

00:20:47 because if you're asked that question well aren't christian nationalists racist are you one of those

00:20:52 um yeah i sure am um yeah well what your grandma means by racist probably isn't actually a sin 0.58

00:21:01 she's been programmed and you really should have some compassion for the boomer generation they're 0.62

00:21:06 the most propagandized generation in arguably all of human history yeah um so so have have some 0.81

00:21:12 compassion and show some respect some honor towards grandma and uh grandma's when she says

00:21:18 so are you a racist what she means by racist um because she has been propagandized is um is

00:21:24 probably not actually a sin. But you don't need to lean in knowing that and say, well, I am racist

00:21:32 and you know what you mean. You mean like, yeah, I have the same view of the peoples of the earth

00:21:38 that the apostle Paul had. Okay. You might know that. Grandma doesn't know that. Love your

00:21:44 grandma. So don't say, no, I would never deter from the civil rights act. I would never,

00:21:53 i would never deter from the adl don't do that so don't just oh i denounce i denounce i denounce

00:22:00 don't do that but also don't play the heel and lean in and say our sharam grandma um take take

00:22:06 two minutes with grandma and say well what do you mean by racist grandma i i don't think that um i

00:22:15 have any views towards other peoples uh that the bible would condemn as sinful um but what do you

00:22:21 me and let her answer and then you explain your answer and maybe you agree to disagree but that's

00:22:27 a good way to honor her well said all right question number two from kevin de young when

00:22:32 and how does the nation act as a corporate moral person and some of what he's getting here is

00:22:37 there's a way of looking at it and saying well all right a nation should honor the lord i think

00:22:42 of actually the psalms blessed is the nation whose god is the lord who fears him uh you could say

00:22:47 well, technically, actually, nations are made up of individuals, and so when we're speaking of that,

00:22:52 all that we're speaking of is the individuals within the nation, that each individual has this

00:22:57 duty, and when we speak corporately, all that we're kind of doing is saying all of these individuals

00:23:01 that corporately make up the nation have an actual duty, but there'd be no way to speak of them as a

00:23:06 collective of having certain duties, having certain responsibilities. So when and how does a nation

00:23:11 act as a corporate moral person i have thoughts joel what do you think yeah um i i just i i feel

00:23:19 like out of all these questions that one to me seems the least important yeah um but yeah i i

00:23:26 think that um that god treats nations and views nations uh in that frame and so i think it's

00:23:33 appropriate for us to do the same i think of you know the nation of nineveh repenting um i think

00:23:40 of even you know like um like what you said you quoted you know the nation that fears the lord

00:23:46 um you know god exalts that nation that fears the lord i think of the great commission you and i

00:23:51 were talking you know offline before we were uh came uh came onto the live stream uh you know

00:23:56 the great commission is not just making disciples of individual people out of nations but it's

00:24:01 actually discipling the nations um so i do believe that the nation itself as a body politic as a

00:24:08 corporate group um can be christian and that it cannot be christian and someone like kevin de

00:24:14 young knowing that he's you know a covenant theologian and presbyterian he perfectly well

00:24:20 understands this concept um at least conceptually as it pertains to the family he's perfectly

00:24:25 comfortable with having a family knowing that there are individual family members that are not

00:24:30 yet regenerate are not yet in the true sense christian and yet uh you know maybe it's an

00:24:35 infant or maybe it's a wayward child and yet still referring to the family as Christian

00:24:40 has set apart wholly because the scripture uses that kind of language.

00:24:47 You know, the apostle Paul, as he's writing to the Corinthians, talking about the children,

00:24:51 that even if just one of their parents and that the particular context that Paul is speaking

00:24:57 of, it could even be the mother who's not even the head of the household.

00:25:00 And yet even if their mother is a Christian, truly a disciple of Jesus, then the children would be considered set apart, holy, sanctified before the children are converted.

00:25:13 And even with the conversion of the husband being absent.

00:25:18 And so we're able to understand what a Christian family is.

00:25:22 We're able to understand a Christian school.

00:25:25 We have Christian schools.

00:25:26 We have seminaries, and not just seminaries, but you also have, I'm not doing so hot right now, but like Baylor University or whatever it may be.

00:25:35 None of us would sit here and say what makes a Christian university Christian is it every single faculty member, every single student, and all the way down to the janitor, that they're all born-again regenerate Christians.

00:25:50 no we just say as an entity in a in a general and overall corporate sense um it's christian

00:25:58 it's values it's beliefs um it's what it publicizes is christian and so yeah so i just i feel like we

00:26:06 we have a framework for that and uh and a guy like kevin de young is perfectly willing to apply that

00:26:14 label a corporate christian label to a number of other entities and so my question i i feel i guess

00:26:22 what i'm saying is i feel like um the burden of proof is actually on him because he's perfectly

00:26:27 willing in principle to to call things christian or not christian wholesale collectively without

00:26:35 each individual member actually being regenerate um but yet he's he's actually being inconsistent

00:26:42 and not being willing to apply that same principle to nations.

00:26:47 And so I would want to know why.

00:26:49 Yeah.

00:26:49 I like what Stephen Wolf, the way he was defining some terms in his book,

00:26:52 he said, the totality of national action.

00:26:55 So like Baylor University.

00:26:56 Well, technically, it's a bunch of buildings.

00:26:58 Buildings are just, they're physical.

00:27:01 They're structures.

00:27:02 It's structures.

00:27:03 It's individuals that then collectively gather together.

00:27:06 You could do the same thing with that and pick it apart.

00:27:08 But what is the totality of that action?

00:27:10 Oh, people are educated.

00:27:11 Degrees are conferred.

00:27:12 sports are played. All of those things come together to actually form something like a

00:27:17 movement. There's not a certain point where you can say, well, when it tips over this number of

00:27:20 faculty or adds this number of buildings, it's an entity, calls itself, distinguishes itself by a

00:27:26 certain name, and together the individual efforts come together in their sum to make up a body that

00:27:32 does certain actions. It's the same way with the nation. It's flags, it's government, it's people

00:27:36 all within them. Sure, you can take the individual person and say, well, this is just him doing his

00:27:41 responsibility and him doing this here and him doing this here. But all of that adds up to the

00:27:45 total of, are you elevating true religion or denigrating it? Are you protecting the church

00:27:50 of God, the people of God, your borders, or are you doing that terribly? Are you punishing the

00:27:55 evildoer? It is the sum of individual choices, but we're not going to put murderers to death

00:28:00 anymore, for instance. Yes, that may be an individual's choice within that larger framework,

00:28:05 but in totality, when we zoom out, okay, the nation as a whole is now no longer punishing

00:28:10 the evildoer, according as it's supposed to do to Romans 13. And so the sum of those individual

00:28:14 actions still add up to an entire body politic that commissions actions. And the Bible clearly

00:28:20 in many places speaks of those nations being blessed because of the totality of that action.

00:28:25 It fears the Lord. It repents of its sin. It looks to God, blessed or cursed. It's full of

00:28:32 individuals that are wicked, individuals that are sinners, individuals. I mean, I even think of

00:28:37 israel of course we know not every single israelite rejected the messiah but by and by and large on

00:28:42 the whole 60 70 80 90 percent of them did and as a whole together they were judged corporately now

00:28:49 every individual of course is accountable for their sin but those individuals summed up together

00:28:54 on the whole they were judged the bible knows how to speak about that we know how to speak about

00:28:58 that this question is a little bit being obtuse yep i agree question number three last one for

00:29:04 the segment, what is the purpose of civil government? What is the purpose of civil

00:29:11 government? It's to punish the evildoer, as per Romans 13, as it clearly says, which is,

00:29:19 you know, the typical conservative with a libertarian bent would say, well, yeah, so that's,

00:29:25 you know, crime, you know, but the question is, where can evil be committed? Is there evil in the

00:29:33 realm of economics yeah there is so uh just perfect limitlessly free markets um with no um

00:29:43 no state uh governing principles whatsoever uh is to essentially assume that no evil can

00:29:52 be committed in the realm of trade right um or or buying or uh there's no such thing as financial

00:29:58 evil is usury evil exorbitant forms of usury interest that people can never get out of that

00:30:05 are specifically designed to take captive and enslave the poorest of the poor yeah it's evil

00:30:11 so well then the government needs to be able to have some kind of mechanism for punishing those

00:30:16 who charge interest so one the purpose of government is to punish the evil doer but

00:30:24 Romans 13 also says, uh, to, to praise, to praise the one who does good. And so I do think that

00:30:31 there's a twofold, uh, there's a twofold purpose of government praising the good and punishing

00:30:37 the evil. And so based off of that, I would agree with guys like Stephen Wolf, who have said that,

00:30:44 uh, government should be Christian and they should promote true religion, the highest good

00:30:51 ordering civil life temporal life for heavenly good right kevin de young as he's extrapolating

00:31:00 expanding on this question in his article he explicitly disagrees with that he says quote i

00:31:05 do not want government to direct its citizens to the highest heavenly good or to order society

00:31:09 around true religion because i do not trust the government to determine true religion from false

00:31:14 religion and because i do not trust human beings to wield this kind of authority well or wisely

00:31:19 I hold these convictions not in avoidance of Calvinist theology, but precisely because I am

00:31:24 a Calvinist. A reformed understanding of human nature should lead one to grant the civil magistrate

00:31:28 less power in matters of religion, not more. Yeah, and I think that's, I just think that's

00:31:34 silly. I think that's what we have talked about over and over again, is, okay, well, power corrupts,

00:31:41 absolute power corrupts, absolutely. We're aware. Checks and balances, I think, are a good thing

00:31:46 for me preferably I would like to have a republic or even if there is a monarchy I would I would

00:31:53 like to have some aspects of a republic that are involved in that or an aristocracy to where it's

00:31:59 not just a singular individual but but he's held in check just like a king would have been held

00:32:04 in check by the feudal lords they could actually rival him you know and and press some measure of

00:32:11 accountability so I'm aware of the need for checks and balances accountability because of

00:32:16 doctrine of total depravity perfectly aware but here's the deal about total depravity um total

00:32:23 depravity affects democracies too um if it can affect the state well then it'll also affect the

00:32:29 citizens of a given state and i feel like what we're seeing and what we have been seeing for

00:32:35 decades now is um the people uh collectively voting in wickedness uh wholesale and so to say

00:32:47 that um that a powerful government is the only way to usher in national compromise

00:32:53 i think is a bit naive yeah he says here like i do not trust the government to determine true

00:32:59 religion from false religion the problem is the government is going to at some level push some

00:33:05 type of religion on the people. So it's not as though, well, the government could push religion,

00:33:09 and if they do so, well, they might get it wrong. They might promote the false religion instead of

00:33:13 the true, and so categorically, instead of pushing religion, the government should stay completely

00:33:18 out of this. But if anything we've learned, especially from the last five years, but most

00:33:22 certainly the last 25 years, the last couple decades, the government is very much so going

00:33:27 to have a hand in, and this is some of what the next question gets at, the government is very much

00:33:31 so going to have a hand in shaping the religious conception and experience of its citizens.

00:33:37 That's why it's this powerful institution that has biblical instruction around it.

00:33:42 It's why we have Numbers and Deuteronomy and Leviticus, why we have laws and case studies

00:33:47 and examples, because it's very powerful.

00:33:49 And the question is not, well, it could promote true religion or no religion.

00:33:54 You know, religion, no religion, true religion, false religion. 0.64

00:33:57 It's going to promote one of those two.

00:33:58 you saw during covid 2021 through 2024 when joe biden was president you saw the religion of

00:34:05 transgenderism welcome to the white house lawn and broadcasted to millions the religion celebrated

00:34:10 yeah the religion of george floyd yes so like what was permissible in a pandemic uh what was

00:34:17 permissible to stand outside and protest with thousands and thousands of people right next

00:34:23 to each other but it was not permissible to go to church to even go to church in some states you

00:34:29 couldn't go to church even in an outdoor service for for at least a couple months and so certain

00:34:37 things were still permissible and not just permissible but commendable and then other

00:34:42 things were ultimately um renounced as as being harmful or dangerous and so yeah government it's

00:34:51 it's not you know it's the old rush duny adage it's not whether but which so um the government

00:34:56 is going to promote some kind of ideology some kind of higher truth and uh and so you'd like it

00:35:03 to be the christian one yep and uh i remember uh kathy hockle uh she's now the governor of new york

00:35:10 it was early on during covid but she was literally went to a church and she said i need you to be my

00:35:15 apostles for the vaccine yeah that's going to happen it's not as though government there will

00:35:20 simply to be this vacuum of religion, and government will say, I'm content to stay out of it.

00:35:24 They're going to push something. And so Kevin kind of needs to look at reality as it is and say,

00:35:29 they're going to promote something. And all else being equal, we've got to be honest, he's right,

00:35:33 it is the government. I will completely recognize the government is probably never, no place,

00:35:38 no time, going to be up there promoting the most pure, unadulterated gospel, perfect doctrine on

00:35:44 every single point that is just objectively true. It is the government. But even in, this is some

00:35:49 of our point, even in doing it somewhat wrong, even in being a little cheesy, even if being 1.00

00:35:55 off track a little bit, that is way better than transgender individuals on the lawn of the White 0.98

00:36:02 House celebrating and enjoying their perversion. So it's like, okay, you have a president. Think, 1.00

00:36:10 for example, of Jimmy Carter back in the day. Well, even here, this is more illustrative.

00:36:14 All the presidents, I think, in United States history have had to claim Christianity as their

00:36:18 religion. They may not be practicing, they may not be attending church, but practically speaking,

00:36:23 we have never had a non-Christian president, and that matters. I don't think you can separate 0.93

00:36:28 how much Christianity shaped this nation, such that every president has had to claim to be a

00:36:32 Christian, and being also the greatest nation the world has ever seen, that has produced more,

00:36:36 that has won more, that has been as prosperous as us. They're not separated. It matters that even

00:36:42 in name only, we still have to say we are a Christian nation, that our leaders to be elected

00:36:47 can't be from another religion.

00:36:49 Those things matter.

00:36:51 And so you're going to have the government promoting religion,

00:36:53 and then at that point you just have to simply say,

00:36:55 well, they're going to do it.

00:36:56 And because it's the government, it might be a little bit cheesy. 0.97

00:36:59 It might be silly. 0.89

00:37:00 In some cases, downright wrong.

00:37:02 But it's better for them to get up and say,

00:37:04 it's Christmas, it's time to think about Jesus and his birth,

00:37:07 which Trump has done.

00:37:08 It is better that than, let's crack open the Bhagavad Gita to swear in.

00:37:13 Well, of these two, if I'm going to have one of these two options,

00:37:16 it's pretty clear which one we should have.

00:37:19 So you need to grow up and live in reality and say,

00:37:21 yeah, they're going to do a religion one way or the other. 0.58

00:37:23 Let's make it the Christian one, and I'm not ashamed of it.

00:37:25 Right. Yeah, I think part of the concern from someone like Kevin DeYoung

00:37:29 and others have expressed it as well,

00:37:32 but I think part of the concern is,

00:37:35 and it tends to come from your Reformed Protestant types,

00:37:40 of which we are as well,

00:37:42 uh but guys who are place a heavy emphasis on um doctrinal specificity yeah um and and we're not

00:37:52 saying that doctrine doesn't matter because it does um immensely and doctrinal purity matters

00:37:57 but i think part of the reason guys like kevin de young are concerned about the government

00:38:01 promoting true religion is because they're they're thinking well we we can't possibly expect

00:38:07 um the civil magistrates to be aware of you know x y and z and all these you know secondary and

00:38:14 tertiary um very specific doctrinal tenets that we hold to in our tribe and our you know reformed

00:38:24 protestant wing of christianity right but that's not really what we're advocating for um we we have

00:38:31 said from the beginning, two, three years ago, I've publicly said that, you know, what would it

00:38:37 look like practically? It would look like adopting perhaps the Apostles' Creed as a preamble to the

00:38:44 Constitution, so that the Lord Jesus Christ is specifically named, and the major tenets of

00:38:50 primary doctrine are affirmed and esteemed. The Trinity, the Incarnation, the Crucifixion,

00:38:59 resurrection uh these these kinds of things um and and so that's that's what i would be looking

00:39:06 at i wouldn't be looking at uh the civil magistrate to parse out um for the entire country

00:39:13 including ministers the differences between super lapsarianism you know and infra lapsarianism

00:39:19 i would be looking for him to hold the hold the uh the the far-reaching boundaries of simply

00:39:27 creedal not confessional but creedal christianity so i would want him to be able to discern the

00:39:34 difference not between an anglican and a presbyterian i want him to be able to discern

00:39:40 the difference and act accordingly between a christian and a muslim a christian and a jew

00:39:46 christian and a hindu a christian and an atheist i would want him to be able to see the difference

00:39:52 between those and promote true religion and i think that's that is part of the problem is guys

00:39:58 like kevin de young and i've had this temptation you know myself uh but when we say promote true

00:40:03 religion i think the subliminal uh message that some of us actually mean by that whether we're

00:40:09 aware of it or not is um we we think of the government promoting our particular denominational

00:40:16 allegiance that religion that that very particular expression of the christian religion and because

00:40:23 we're not confident and for good reason uh that the government would do that then we don't want

00:40:29 the government to do it at all um and i think that that is a a massive um a massive error like

00:40:36 as i think about it more more clearly um i realize if the government promotes true religion

00:40:45 and uh and it ends up being uh more of a particular denominational vein of christianity

00:40:54 that i'm not actually a part of that i have differences with that would still be infinitely

00:40:59 better uh than promoting secularism transgenderism marxism islam judaism xyz so i i'm actually

00:41:10 perfectly comfortable with the government promoting a a broad creedal christianity that

00:41:18 knowing that it would encompass other people that i disagree with but it would not be encompassing

00:41:24 people who are much much further that i have much deeper profound disagreements with such as 0.97

00:41:30 false religions like islam um you know and those kinds of things absolutely all right we've got

00:41:37 three more questions to handle we're going to head to our first commercial break be right back 0.99

00:41:40 talking about the First Amendment, true religion, and has Christian nationalism been achieved

00:41:45 before? When it comes to your financial future, are you planning forward or backwards from your

00:41:51 desired results? What type of financial culture do you want to create for your family and for

00:41:57 your children's children? We are not called to be wise as doves. Therefore, simpleton planning

00:42:04 simply won't cut it. Joe Garracy helps families develop and implement a long-term culture of

00:42:11 excellent financial management. He starts with your goals, your tithing plan, your retirement,

00:42:18 and the legacy that you want to build for your generations. And then he works backwards to build

00:42:24 a real actionable plan to get your family on track. Now, many of my personal friends have

00:42:31 benefited from the financial wisdom of Joe Gerasi that he shared for their specific situations.

00:42:38 Do you want to work with someone who strives for alpha with your investing, hates taxes,

00:42:44 and brokers insurance? Start planning smart. Call Joe Gerasi at 615-767-2555. Again, that's

00:42:57 615-767-2555. Or you can find him by going to backwardsplanningfinancial.inm.com. Again,

00:43:11 that's backwardsplanningfinancial.in, as in Nancy, m, as in ministries, dot com.

00:43:19 The silver is mine and the gold is mine, declares the Lord of hosts.

00:43:26 Yet your retirement dollars keep shrinking daily as Washington prints money out of thin air.

00:43:34 Genesis Gold Group aligns financial guidance with godly principles when others serve only profit.

00:43:40 Their faith-centered approach to gold IRAs stands apart in an industry that has forgotten what true stewardship actually means.

00:43:50 Why gamble your family's future on Wall Street's paper promises?

00:43:55 Your 401k and IRA deserve better protection.

00:44:00 Genesis Gold Group transforms your vulnerable retirement accounts into physical gold,

00:44:06 something real, something tangible, something that God created with inherent value. Their

00:44:13 faith-driven experts walk you through every step, helping you shield your life's work from the

00:44:19 financial storms up ahead. No high-pressure tactics, no hidden fees, just guidance rooted

00:44:26 in timeless principles of sound stewardship. So the decision is simple. Watch your retirement

00:44:32 evaporate through inflation or secure it in God's precious metal. Take action now. Go and visit

00:44:40 rightresponsebiblegold.com. You can visit today for your free book, The Bible and Gold, and join

00:44:49 the thousands of believers who sleep soundly knowing their future is anchored in something

00:44:54 unshakable. Again, that's rightresponsebiblegold.com, safeguarding your legacy with God's

00:45:03 timeless treasure. All right, jumping right back in, question number four that Kevin DeYoung has

00:45:12 for Christian Nationalists. He says, what does it mean for the civil magistrate to promote true

00:45:16 religion? Joel, you've mentioned one of the functions of civil government is the promotion

00:45:20 of true religion. And I want to read from him from this article to get a sense for the things

00:45:25 he feels kind of icky about civil governments doing. So he starts off with this. He says,

00:45:29 I suspect that promote, in quotes, is meant to entail more than this. But what? Because what

00:45:35 does promote mean from Christian nationalists? Calling for days of prayer and fasting? Giving

00:45:39 fireside chats at Christmas that speak about the good news of Christ's birth? Defending the rights 0.99

00:45:43 of conscience and religious liberty? Establishing a military chaplain corps? Tax breaks for churches

00:45:48 and clergy i like all of that or and this is his kind of contrast or does promote mean supporting

00:45:55 churches and ministers from tax revenue making religious tests of office reforming the church

00:46:00 that its worship discipline and doctrine are in line with god's word shutting down churches and

00:46:05 religious assemblies that are false and idolatrous these are bad ideas in my estimation i might agree

00:46:11 with promote but the devil is in the details and so he's okay with some level yeah hey it's 0.96

00:46:15 christmas time tell everybody in the nation christmas is when we celebrate christ's birth

00:46:19 when it gets down to brass tacks though you mentioned shutting down false and idolatrous

00:46:23 worship he says it this is actually a bad idea in my mind right and we we would disagree so pull up

00:46:28 that second quote again just so that we can see it on the screen as we're addressing it uh where

00:46:33 it says or does um so or does promote mean uh go ahead and throw it on the screen or does promote

00:46:40 means supporting uh churches and ministers from tax revenue i think that that is fine uh making

00:46:47 religious tests of office i think that that is uh permissible um i think that it's more than it's

00:46:55 certainly permissible i think that it would be advantageous uh reforming the church so that its

00:46:59 worship discipline and doctrine are in line with god's word i'll come back to that one to me that's

00:47:05 the only one that's questionable and then lastly shutting down churches and religious assemblies

00:47:10 that are false and idolatrous um both the one right before that reforming the church and that

00:47:16 last one shutting down certain churches that are idolatrous and false i'm actually fine with both

00:47:22 of those if we're assuming what i said previously um in terms of what are we setting as the land

00:47:29 markers right the the uh the furthest extending boundaries of how we're defining christian

00:47:35 so if we're saying christian christianity is the one true religion and that the government of a

00:47:41 christian nation should be christian itself and promote that one true religion then the question

00:47:47 is okay what constitutes as being christian and i would advocate for a a pan creedal conception

00:47:56 of christianity and when i say creedal i mean not particular confessions belgic right or or 1689 or

00:48:04 westminster uh but creedal so the historic christian creeds like uh the apostles creed

00:48:11 the nicene creed so if you take that understanding and you say shutting down churches and religious

00:48:18 assemblies that are false and idolatrous um but you're using creedal christianity as your metric

00:48:26 for determining what's true and therefore what is false and idolatrous then um then i think that

00:48:33 that is permissible because the kinds of churches that you would be shutting down at that point 0.90

00:48:38 would be to be frank uh the clearest and easy it would be um it would be mosque synagogues right so

00:48:47 judaism islam hinduism uh beyond that probably the closest that you would get within is i'm not

00:48:55 saying this is true christianity these would be examples of of christian heresies that would be

00:49:00 shut down um you would you would shut down uh mormon temples yep um jehovah's witness would

00:49:07 be shut down because there's actually a denial of creeds uh within them there's a denial um like

00:49:14 like a mormon cannot affirm the nicene creed they're not going to be able to agree that uh

00:49:21 that jesus is very god right that he is um that he is of the same substance not just similar but

00:49:29 same substance as the Father. You know, so certain Christian heresies are going to say, well, Jesus

00:49:36 is the first created being, right? So he's special, he's cool, but he's still a creature. He's the

00:49:44 best of the creatures and the first of the creatures, but he's still a creature. He's the

00:49:49 Archangel, you know, Michael, or the brother of the Archangel Michael. Yeah, so that would be

00:49:55 a Christian heresy. Now, I'm aware that there are many other things that for myself and for 0.97

00:50:02 you, Wes, as Reformed Protestants, we would also consider to be erroneous doctrine and then some

00:50:09 to be even heretical doctrine that would be found in churches besides just Mormons or Jehovah's

00:50:18 witness. But you've got to decide who's in, who's out, how wide are we going to draw this circle?

00:50:29 And I would draw it at the historic creeds, because I think you have historic precedents,

00:50:35 you have a great degree of clarity, and you also have an ecumenical element that I think

00:50:44 politically is super helpful. I'm not saying that being ecumenical in a church service

00:50:51 is helpful. I don't think that it is. But for a national body politic, I think that that's

00:50:58 incredibly helpful to draw that circle as wide as you possibly can. So the idea of government,

00:51:06 a Christian government for a Christian nation, the Christian America that I would like to see, 0.73

00:51:10 it would not be rounding up catholics and it would not be rounding up uh eastern orthodox

00:51:15 and it would not be rounding up pentecostals or episcopalians or baptist or presbyterians

00:51:22 um and i i acknowledge right because i want to be honest about it i could just let it go and

00:51:28 and escape you know some some criticism uh but i acknowledge that within this scheme

00:51:33 um making it creedal nicene creed apostles creed uh that there would you know there would be an

00:51:39 allowance uh for some churches that i i personally would say are heretical um i'm thinking of like um

00:51:49 like a joel osteen type church right um a church that you know that teaches the health wealth and

00:51:56 prosperity gospel a word of faith um that that would be um not not penalized under a creedal

00:52:05 christian nation however there would be some like oneness pentecostals that actually um delve into

00:52:12 full-blown heresy in terms of denying the trinity and so then that would be punished so you'd have

00:52:17 a oneness pentecostal punished um and yet even i as a protestant i'm able to recognize that a

00:52:24 catholic wouldn't so a catholic would be in keeping with the apostles creed the nicenean creed in a

00:52:30 way that a oneness Pentecostal would not. Um, but that is a broad tent. And I think that that's

00:52:36 what would be necessary so that we don't, um, become too meticulous and overly zealous in

00:52:42 persecuting, um, you know, half of the Christians in our nation or more. Um, so, so that's what we 0.83

00:52:51 imagine. You tell me if you have any differences there, but that's what I imagine when I think of

00:52:55 christian nation and promoting true religion true religion being the christian religion okay but who

00:53:02 gets to define christian well i would say the historic christian creeds yeah i um you go as

00:53:10 erroneous as possible we've used this example before i got in trouble for it actually think

00:53:14 of the mainline denominations that promote publicly the image a lot of them have churches

00:53:18 that are downtown whether it be philadelphia or new york and they fly pride flags out front of

00:53:23 them. And they teach the millions of people that see them every single year. They project this

00:53:28 image that Christianity is okay with this. Christianity is loving. Christianity is accepting.

00:53:32 Christianity doesn't judge. And these denominations, the mainline ones, some of the big ones,

00:53:37 they're sitting on millions and millions of dollars and some of the best property in the

00:53:41 United States because they were here early. So the only way you're going to have those churches

00:53:45 stop promoting the false religion that they are publicly every single day to millions and millions

00:53:50 of people is at some level, the state coming in and saying, we're not trying to be meticulous.

00:53:56 We're not trying to get in and like, how many points of Calvinism do you hold to? But the state

00:54:00 says, you are flying a pride flag out front. You have signs. This is a church in our town

00:54:06 that's in downtown Georgetown. It's a Unitarian Universalist church. No human being is illegal.

00:54:12 Abortion is healthcare. You are flying this publicly. It is blasphemous. It is wicked.

00:54:18 It sends a wrong message about Christianity. 0.51

00:54:20 And to be honest with these churches,

00:54:22 the reason I said they're sitting on millions of dollars

00:54:23 in all this land, they could do it forever,

00:54:25 even if nobody attends them.

00:54:27 They could sit on that land.

00:54:28 They could fly that flag for the next 200 years.

00:54:31 They don't pay property taxes.

00:54:32 They don't pay property taxes.

00:54:33 They have trust that the land has already been paid for.

00:54:35 They rent a portion of the church property,

00:54:39 the parish to a school or something like that.

00:54:42 They literally can have three members 1.00

00:54:44 and a female blue-haired lesbian priest 0.85

00:54:48 and just put propaganda physically 1.00

00:54:50 in a downtown real estate location

00:54:55 and wave pride flags for everyone in the town

00:54:58 passing by to see for children's...

00:55:00 For hundreds of years.

00:55:01 Forever, forever.

00:55:02 They can financially afford to keep it up forever.

00:55:05 And so then the question is,

00:55:06 what's going to stop that?

00:55:08 Well, if we just preach Christ,

00:55:10 then that'll...

00:55:11 No. 0.90

00:55:12 That'll empty their trust coffers.

00:55:14 No, it actually won't.

00:55:14 it actually won't um that doesn't actually uh preaching christ will not seize their accounts

00:55:20 and seize their land um if you preach christ and by his grace there's great revival and everyone

00:55:26 leaves their churches to go to christian churches that won't change it either because right now

00:55:30 everyone has already left their church not to go to faithful churches necessarily but to just not

00:55:35 go to church at all their churches this is what you have to realize those mainline protestant 0.68

00:55:39 churches with heretical gay affirming doctrine they're already empty they are and they're still 0.98

00:55:45 going with no end in sight because that's the way that that money works when when you have uh when 0.91

00:55:52 it's labeled legally it's legally filed as a church it doesn't pay taxes doesn't pay property

00:55:58 taxes has uh trust funds accumulating interest they they can afford to pay a livable wage to a

00:56:06 blue-haired lesbian priest forever and when she dies for the next one and the next one and the 1.00

00:56:12 next one with three congregants or zero congregants and then have that real estate right in the 1.00

00:56:17 downtown square of your town waving transgender flags for your children to see when they want to

00:56:24 go play in the park right um and and revival um and even if all the hearts in town are regenerate

00:56:32 but not the person who controls the trust fund

00:56:35 of that mainline Protestant denomination,

00:56:37 then they still get to waive transgender flag. 1.00

00:56:40 No, it's public, just like public indecency. 0.99

00:56:44 You can't run around naked in the town square

00:56:46 without having a church preach to you repentance.

00:56:50 Yeah, you should probably have that too,

00:56:52 but also without having the civil magistrate

00:56:54 inflict some kind of penalty.

00:56:56 And it should be the same 0.99

00:56:57 for these gay-affirming Protestant churches.

00:57:01 and if it's not then then there's actually no solution there is only a state solution there

00:57:07 is only a legal legislative solution uh real quick this is a side point but um uh for our

00:57:14 our tech team there was uh somebody in the chat that had an israeli flag and uh and it also had

00:57:22 the username was genocide enjoyer uh make sure to ban them immediately uh never want to see them

00:57:29 again genocide enjoyer with an israeli flag i do appreciate that both the profile picture and the

00:57:36 name match up right there was consistency there israeli flag genocide enjoyer uh but we don't

00:57:42 want them in our chat um speaking of things that we won't tolerate um and using levers of power

00:57:47 to uh to promote righteousness there's there's a little example so i espouse the principle and

00:57:52 then got to give you a case study go ahead i was gonna say king josiah he came in and reformed

00:57:58 worship. There was all this idol worship that was going on. There were idolatrous priests.

00:58:02 He took care of them. The king came in and reformed worship. Now, and Stephen Wolf makes

00:58:07 a great distinction, that doesn't mean he comes in and he says, well, we're going to actually have

00:58:10 the table for the Lord's Supper. We're going to put this one off to the left, and the minister

00:58:14 isn't going to preach. He doesn't administer over those things. But he can drive by a church and say,

00:58:19 that's a pride flag out there. I think it's time we pay them a visit. There's a huge distinction

00:58:23 between and this will be the ingredients of the bread for the lord's supper this is the hymns

00:58:28 no not at all what we're saying uh we're not there's a woman on stage to their liturgy we're

00:58:32 not speaking to their order of worship we're not speaking to any of those things and notice that

00:58:36 that's why like i mean it kills me a little bit inside but i'm trying to to because here's a

00:58:41 problem i like i sympathize with kevin de young and part of the problem is a lot of christian

00:58:47 nationalists are intentionally ambiguous and vague they don't they will not give you clear

00:58:52 detailed explanations so we're trying to do that so um should the government be christian and does

00:58:59 that mean uh does that include promoting uh true religion the christian religion we're saying yes

00:59:04 but we know that that's that's sticky that's complicated so christian defined as what and so

00:59:11 we're saying creedal christianity um okay then what does the government actually have authority

00:59:16 over and that's why i gave the example like there are certain churches that um that i think are

00:59:24 absolutely destructive that would be allowed to continue um with with 18 minute ted talk sermons

00:59:32 and um and you know uh little wafers and grape juice once a quarter if they i was about to say

00:59:40 once a quarter for the lord's supper and uh even an israeli flag flying in the sanctuary

00:59:46 right um and and yet they would be able to continue i'll say it like this greg lock

00:59:52 i think he's terrible yeah um his church would be able to continue yep it would um mormon church

01:00:02 no jehovah's witness church no um pride flags in the public square on the outside of the no

01:00:08 right um but but there would be other things that would be permissible so yep all right question

01:00:14 number five this is a good one was the first amendment a mistake congress shall not pass any

01:00:19 law uh restricting the free expression there's five categories of it uh one of them being the

01:00:23 free expression of religion was the first amendment a mistake i'll say in this time no

01:00:31 today it needs some updating yep i think that's the best way to say it's been 250 years guys

01:00:36 yeah it's like oh you you are you hating on the founders no they were our new grill needs a

01:00:43 firmware update like every 30 minutes you go to do the grill it's like well you need software

01:00:46 update 14.6.8.1 uh if a grill needs an update every uh 20 minutes i think a nation 250 years

01:00:53 in with vastly different demographics that's a big one that first started with can say hey when

01:01:00 we started uh coming out of a european context the persecution of the puritans coming out of

01:01:05 that context we said hey and i it pains me to admit but they really did mean freedom of religion

01:01:10 like there is some sense in which they meant freedom of religion within the christian religion

01:01:15 right but you read jefferson and others and and for sure the majority they they really truly meant

01:01:19 like jew mohammedan christian free religion they actually meant that and so that would be a rare

01:01:24 founders l um but an understandable uh rare founders l because they weren't their big concern

01:01:30 was not hedging against, you know, 0.0001%.

01:01:34 In a 95% Christian country. 0.85

01:01:35 Exactly. 1.00

01:01:36 They could not, even Jefferson,

01:01:39 who was, Jefferson was a deist and a Unitarian.

01:01:43 Is that right?

01:01:43 Close to a universalist.

01:01:45 Close to, yeah. 1.00

01:01:45 I mean, he was a heretic. 0.99

01:01:46 We'll just say that. 0.63

01:01:47 Jefferson was a heretic and certainly not, 0.99

01:01:50 one of my least favorite of the founding fathers.

01:01:52 Not our guy.

01:01:53 Yeah, Jackson would be good.

01:01:55 Adams would be good.

01:01:56 Washington would be good.

01:01:57 Jefferson's not our guy.

01:01:58 But even Jefferson, if he was alive today, 1.00

01:02:00 he'd be like what the heck is going on in the world you have how many muslims here in the united 1.00

01:02:05 states you're like uh yeah freedom of religion my bad i need a mulligan um yeah so so yeah so 1.00

01:02:14 it's just uh the constitution is like well you guys hate the constitution i i love the constitution

01:02:18 i i still with all my reforms and she's still love the constitution but the people that the

01:02:23 constitution was fit for that's those that's not the people of our country anymore we don't have

01:02:29 those people we don't have them racially religiously um ethnically at any level we don't 0.96

01:02:35 have those people the country was predominantly european and christian and now um we have a ton

01:02:43 of different religions ton of different nationalities um we have ilhan omar now we have um

01:02:50 we have uh zon zon whatever the mayor of new york what's pronounced zoran mondani zoran mondani

01:02:57 uh mondani i don't even want to i don't even want to learn to pronounce his name correctly but

01:03:02 um in that kind of nation yeah you you need a couple updates yeah yeah because all politics

01:03:07 is contextual there is no abstract perfect political theory that oh it works in every

01:03:11 time and every place politics is adapted to its time so in that time the protecting the free

01:03:16 expression of religion that i'm not going to count that as an l we were 95 christian country

01:03:21 we had an identity uh today that's been eroded and we need to say yeah all this eastern nonsense

01:03:25 it needs to go uh doesn't have a place here is not christian is not western it doesn't have a

01:03:31 spot that's today that wasn't 250 years ago again getting back kind of to question one

01:03:36 you feel like some of these constitutional elements right the bill of rights the 19th

01:03:40 amendment we saw owen strand crash out about that they treat these things like they're religious

01:03:44 precepts okay so if the first amendment like goes away or someone doesn't want it i'm not

01:03:48 personally advocating for that but say someone does okay that is in the realm of politics yeah

01:03:53 that's not a christian the first amendment is not the gospel no and you know it's funny

01:03:58 neither is the 19th right um but it's funny like somebody like owen strand who'd be like this is

01:04:03 terrible what are you doing um even the guys that he would respect like john macarthur god rest his

01:04:09 soul john macarthur said religious freedom uh religious freedom is the freedom of idolatry

01:04:15 right he literally said that that's not righteous there's nothing righteous about religious freedom

01:04:20 giving people freedom of idolatry. So that's even like John MacArthur, dispensationalist,

01:04:26 Baptist, and even he recognized like, no, this is not a Christian principle, and it's silly to

01:04:32 pretend that it is. Yeah. Kevin DeYoung said in his article, just to show we're not taking him 0.65

01:04:37 out of context, we're not attributing to him a view he does not hold, he said at the end of his

01:04:41 article, he said, I suggest, however, as an American, so as opposed to the suppression of

01:04:46 false worship as an american and as a christian that the better way is to pray preach and

01:04:51 proselytize for the conversion of these religious groups jews hindus muslims etc while also defending 0.96

01:04:57 their right to exercise their false religion during this temporal order which is insane put

01:05:02 put that quote up uh we want people to see it so this is from kevin de young um let's put it up on

01:05:07 the screen uh starting there it's about halfway down or so i suggest yeah third line i suggest

01:05:14 however so this is what he's saying would be better than christian nationalism i suggest as

01:05:19 an american and as a christian that the better way is to pray that's good preach that's good

01:05:26 proselytize do the work of an evangelist that's good for the conversion of these religious groups

01:05:32 right so he's thinking of false religious groups for muslims jews hindus etc so praying and seeking 0.59

01:05:40 to evangelize and preaching to these religious groups, false religions, while also defending 0.72

01:05:46 their right to exercise their false religion during this temporal order. That's insane 0.73

01:05:57 that I'm going to preach to you that your soul might be saved and that you wouldn't go to hell

01:06:04 and then also go and fight wars and be willing to die to defend the right for 90-foot-tall

01:06:12 statues in Houston, Islamic statues, to be raised. No, I'm not going to fight to defend 0.97

01:06:20 idolatry, public, visible, expressed idolatry that brings about God's judgment on the land.

01:06:29 I'm not going to do that. And just for the record, that's still distinct, okay? There's a difference

01:06:34 between sins and crimes,

01:06:36 public blasphemy,

01:06:38 public idolatry is not

01:06:40 only, it is a sin, but it's not only

01:06:42 a sin, it is a crime.

01:06:43 We are not advocating for 1.00

01:06:45 the Muslim police 0.94

01:06:47 to go and round up Muslims 1.00

01:06:50 who are privately worshipping 0.67

01:06:52 in their homes, but we are

01:06:54 saying that 94... I'm monitoring bacon shipments

01:06:56 like, it's been three weeks, I don't know.

01:06:57 It's been three weeks, no bacon, 1.00

01:06:59 we might have some Jews here. 1.00

01:07:01 Check under the floorboards. 1.00

01:07:03 eat the bacon cheeseburger what's going on here bacon cheeseburger to prove that you're a christian

01:07:07 uh no we're not saying that um we're saying uh but 90 foot tall statue uh just a blasphemous

01:07:16 eyesore outside of a major american city in houston that that should be torn down yep um and

01:07:22 that the state has a right to do that now in terms of rounding people up right if we're talking about

01:07:27 ice and we're talking about people rounding them up not not strictly because they're muslim 0.99

01:07:31 religiously but because they're not american nationally they they don't belong here well

01:07:37 that's that's a separate issue based yeah that's that's great uh question number six this is the

01:07:42 last one we'll get to super chats here just in a minute after our second commercial break

01:07:46 but his last question what is the historical example of the political order you would like

01:07:51 to see in america unfortunately we have to go back a very very long time hundreds thousands of years

01:07:57 since we've ever seen a Christian nation like Rome.

01:08:00 Actually, no, just 125 years.

01:08:02 What historical time?

01:08:03 When did we have this?

01:08:04 America, 1900. 0.99

01:08:06 We had blasphemy laws. 1.00

01:08:07 We had sodomy laws.

01:08:09 And people were prosecuted 1921 in Maryland.

01:08:11 A man was prosecuted for blaspheming God.

01:08:14 We had blasphemy laws on the books.

01:08:16 Sodomy laws, all 50 states. 0.87

01:08:18 Harsh prison sentence for perversion.

01:08:21 Again, people were not being interrogated in their homes, right?

01:08:23 The police are going down the street, knocking on the door. 0.95

01:08:26 we need proof blah blah blah no but if it was publicly known you were a homosexual you were a 0.98

01:08:31 sodomite that carried strict laws if convicted we had usury laws capped interest rates at something 0.62

01:08:36 like six percent most people we talked about this in another episode uh they didn't have to get

01:08:41 loans for their homes they bought them because they typically were a couple years wages they

01:08:46 saved they bought homes we were considered a christian nation they weren't financing burritos

01:08:50 god yep and then also pornography blue laws explicit sabbath laws yep sabbath laws these

01:08:55 things are all illegal. America was, it depends on the source. Obviously, it's not an exact science.

01:09:00 America was 90 to 95, 97% Christian in 1900. And correct me if I'm wrong, but about 90%

01:09:08 white European. Yep, exactly. It was a mix. Mostly, I think two-thirds Protestant are kind 0.97

01:09:14 of resident third Catholic. Two-thirds Protestant, probably close to 97% white, 95% Christian. We had

01:09:21 that here in this nation 125 years ago. And honestly, it produced, I think, of the Roaring

01:09:27 20s. It had its faults, for sure. I think of the prohibition and all of the crime that that brought

01:09:32 with it. That is not to say everybody was moral, there was nobody that was degenerate, but publicly

01:09:37 speaking, the nation itself oriented people again and again towards Christianity in its habits,

01:09:45 in its action, in its memorials, in its celebration, in its songs, in its memories,

01:09:49 and all that it did in its public schools.

01:09:52 It oriented people to the true religion.

01:09:54 It used the law as a curb against evil.

01:09:58 No, you can't do that

01:09:59 because you'll go to jail for 20 years 0.99

01:10:01 if you're a homosexual. 0.98

01:10:02 You can't blaspheme the Lord Jesus Christ 0.97

01:10:03 because he's holy, living, and God.

01:10:06 You can't exploit your neighbor

01:10:07 and charge him 25% interest.

01:10:10 We had it.

01:10:11 We had it here in this land 125 years ago.

01:10:14 Well said.

01:10:15 Let's go to our last commercial break

01:10:16 and then we're going to come back

01:10:17 and deal with the super chats.

01:10:19 Hey friends, Gray Toad Tallow is a family business making skin care the way that it should be,

01:10:25 simple and clean. The company began as a personal mission to find healthier, more affordable

01:10:31 solutions to common skin problems without the chemicals that are found in most products today.

01:10:38 Now that search led to crafting balms from grass-fed, grass-finished animals that were

01:10:44 naturally rich in vitamins and healthy fats, which is exactly what your skin craves. These balms

01:10:51 fight dryness, they calm eczema, and psoriasis, along with other stubborn skin issues,

01:10:59 without containing all the nasty toxins. Gray Toad Tallow offers everyday soaps, balms,

01:11:06 and beard balm for men. To experience some of their products, grab a balm sample pack.

01:11:13 Each batch is made with care in their home and shipped directly to their customers.

01:11:20 For skincare, the way that God designed, natural, clean, and effective, visit greytoedtallow.com.

01:11:29 Use code WRITE15 for 15% off your order today.

01:11:35 Again, that's greytoedtallow.com.

01:11:39 And if you want 15% off, then add the promo code WRITE15 today.

01:11:45 The danger of centralized power is often represented by the word king.

01:11:50 As Americans, we hate the word king.

01:11:54 Civilian ownership of body armor is about helping people to have increased power to resist tyrants and criminals.

01:12:01 And so, Armored Republic is about helping you to preserve your God-given rights to the

01:12:07 honor of the Lord Jesus Christ, because he is the King of kings, and he governs kings

01:12:12 and he will judge them.

01:12:15 This is Armored Republic, and in a republic, there is no king but Christ.

01:12:21 We are free craftsmen, and we are honored to be your Armorsmith choice.

01:12:31 all right we're back let's uh do the super chats first one of the day that we have is from

01:12:44 austin gondor he gave us 50 we appreciate that thank you very much he said ga kings

01:12:50 have you ever heard of dr byron brian brian artist artist it's it's hard to read it's very

01:12:58 small print i promise i know how to read dr brian you have glasses this should be easy to see he

01:13:03 has it's still it's small he has done um a lot of good research on uh the health benefits of

01:13:09 nicotine god bless him and i think that it would be awesome if you did another episode on nicotine

01:13:15 and had him on the show to talk about it i'm open to that i think i've seen a video from him he's

01:13:20 made he would say that there's effects that it has on cancer parasites and all of that and i think he

01:13:24 advocates for uh using a nicotine patch so he's not saying here's what you need to do for your

01:13:29 health go out and smoke a pack of marvalo reds a day that's not what he's saying he's saying

01:13:32 hey nicotine taken in some form whether it be some type of pouch or a patch because pouches

01:13:38 and cigarettes and all that can be disruptive a type of patch has a lot of great health benefits

01:13:43 i just felt like i had to add more to that because it was a very generous super chat i've seen him

01:13:47 before and uh people have to have him on the show sometime cool uh all right 10th generation

01:13:51 generation american sons of the american revolution sent in a super chat and said tgc doubled down

01:13:58 bringing out joe carter today so joe carter wrote an article i think it was uh what wicca has to

01:14:03 teach us about christian nationalism so what witches i i couldn't even bring myself to open

01:14:09 the article there's no way i was gonna like open it up read it uh hurt myself with it uh yeah

01:14:15 absolutely terrible gospel coalition has become a rag and uh and you see it the readership is

01:14:20 a tenth of what it was

01:14:23 from like 2015, 16, 17

01:14:25 the big reformed resurgence. People

01:14:27 are done with them. And it's

01:14:28 it didn't have to be this way

01:14:30 but it is. Yep, it is.

01:14:33 Next one. 10th Generation

01:14:35 sent one more chat. He said, beautiful

01:14:37 steak. Now we need an ugly sweater episode. 1.00

01:14:39 Yeah, we do. I have one.

01:14:41 You do? If you could believe I have an ugly 0.98

01:14:43 sweater in my closet. You do. Somewhere in there.

01:14:45 I've got one. Okay, we can do that.

01:14:47 Maybe next Friday. Next one, Kenton Little.

01:14:49 Oh my goodness. Uh-oh.

01:14:50 Uh-oh, this is going to be rough.

01:14:52 All right, no, we like Kenton.

01:14:54 He's great.

01:14:55 Wait, doesn't Kenton hate eggnog?

01:14:58 Have you read the comment yet?

01:14:59 Oh, no.

01:15:01 Is that what it's going to be about?

01:15:02 $5 from Kenton, little.

01:15:06 GA Gents, eggnog is awful.

01:15:09 Hey, Nathan, while I'm reading this,

01:15:12 go grab me the eggnog out of the fridge, please.

01:15:15 Boy, for boy.

01:15:16 Eggnog is awful.

01:15:17 What are we doing?

01:15:18 one of mankind's worst inventions this is insane uh it deserves to not rot in the back of grandma's

01:15:28 fridge real cheer comes from wassail okay i do like wassail um i i've been making wassail since

01:15:35 i don't know since i was like 14 years old i've got a banger recipe came all the way from grandma

01:15:40 so i i know about the wassum and it is good uh but eggnog is good too uh hook it up

01:15:47 and uh i think it's i think it's worth uh kenton a little just uh watching me

01:15:55 get a little bit right here just a good sip

01:15:58 i had steak i had a coffee now i'm having eggnog this is actually homemade

01:16:08 um it's homemade by one of my best friends his wife made it for us as a gift and it is absolutely

01:16:16 delicious yeah watch this jar carefully i'll keep it on screen because if we get to the bottom of it

01:16:23 uh then i'm going to have to resign because we are going to be kicked off of youtube this bad boy

01:16:29 uh she put a lot of uh a lot of generous there's even some eggnog alongside the whiskey in that

01:16:35 barely any eggnog yeah this thing is spiked okay you take the next all right austin gondor sent 0.91

01:16:40 in a super chat thank you sir he said west that starbucks drink you are drinking is kind of gay 0.90

01:16:45 and my wife says that's not very christian nationalist of you and uh yeah i can't believe 0.77

01:16:49 you would do that if you're listening you drank that it's a glass frappuccino now here's the deal

01:16:53 you drank that don't say somebody don't say it somebody don't went to costco today don't

01:16:59 this is this is why christian nationalism matters i wouldn't drink this slop normally somebody went

01:17:06 to costco and bought a whole pack of them and they're in the fridge and i have a headache

01:17:11 and i grabbed one of them i feel a lot better they're full of sugar they're terrible for you

01:17:15 but i needed someone to say you can't have that in the house and nobody did no authority came in

01:17:20 and said you can't have these in the house they're bad for you and they're full of sugar so i'm the

01:17:25 victim here not sure somebody should have stopped me from making this purchase but i will say if

01:17:29 we're on the subject of costco and christian nationalism there are some other christian

01:17:33 nationalist you know policies that need to be employed at costco and i'm talking about like

01:17:39 90 of the clientele i'm talking dress code ushered into ice vans and immediately deported every time

01:17:48 i go to costco it's just like billions have to go back i go to costco and i'm like we're not

01:17:51 can i ever have our country back yeah it's like legitimately no seriously it's done yeah when i

01:17:56 go to costco i'm like this is not america it's really sad okay uh next one is who cody legal

01:18:03 here okay here we go uh sent in a 20 super chat thanks cody very generous he said have a merry

01:18:08 christmas god bless christian nationalism sticking with it amen amen all right next one general blurbs

01:18:14 he gave us five bucks we appreciate that he said if 400 years in america makes uh blacks okay so

01:18:21 he's talking about the black population part of the american nation then shouldn't 430 years

01:18:27 in egypt have made the israelites egyptian um well i would say that in the case of egypt there's a lot

01:18:35 of things that could be said but one would be in the case of egypt um they absolutely did not ever

01:18:41 let the israelites um actually become a part of egypt they held them in slavery right they kept

01:18:48 them distinct. They lived in different portions, like geographic portions. And, you know, so like

01:18:54 they remained very, very distinct. And I would also say that's on the Egyptian side of the equation.

01:18:59 On the Israelite side of the equation, the goal was always to leave. They were crying out and 0.98

01:19:04 praying for God to deliver them. They didn't want to stay in Egypt. They knew that they had a promise

01:19:10 that God would eventually, he would eventually deliver them, redeem them and take them out 0.76

01:19:16 of Egypt. Even so, there were, you know, there was some blending, you can see, and a lot of it 0.51

01:19:25 was negative, that, you know, the Israelites, when they got out of Egypt, they still needed to get

01:19:29 Egypt out of the Israelites. And that took some time, an entire generation wandering and eventually

01:19:35 perishing in the wilderness before they were able to cross the Jordan River. So I understand your

01:19:40 point. I personally disagree with the point. I think that there are some dynamic differences

01:19:46 between the two. Again, Israel remained enslaved for the full 400, you know, give or take years

01:19:55 that they were actually in Egypt. They had a distinct promise from God to eventually be

01:19:59 delivered from Egypt. That wasn't their final resting place. That's not what God had intended

01:20:03 for them. So it's just, I think it's different. But I am aware of people who hold your position.

01:20:09 thank you for the super chat i appreciate it all right the edger whistle sent two dollars he said

01:20:15 changing name to aid joel's steak glazed eyes 10th gen am all right thanks for the super chat

01:20:24 all right cousin re sent five dollars why does it seem like today's church is unwilling to take

01:20:30 principles from old testament israel also west and the tree in the same room must not be the same

01:20:36 no i'm actually antonio joel you're doing the show with antonio today can't you see it's clearly me

01:20:41 yeah definitely just yeah just like monday same guy right here in the chair um you're about i would

01:20:48 say you're about i'm decently tan actually you're about 60 of antonio right isn't it is antonio is

01:20:56 it 60 57 yeah 57 we're about like 57 the same yeah 57 antonio uh which i just got to go on record

01:21:05 and say, I miss my boy. I know. Yeah. He's almost done. He is almost done with the day job. He did

01:21:11 400 years of slavery in Egypt, just like the Israelites did. Yeah. He has been doing some 1.00

01:21:16 serious slavery on the corporate plantation, but we'll be with us soon. Yep. Okay. And with us

01:21:21 permanently. Yeah. We're excited about that. Yeah. So then the actual question, why does it

01:21:25 seem like today's church is unwilling to take principles from Old Testament Israel? Yeah. They

01:21:29 Just Andy Stanley style, right? 0.93

01:21:32 Just unhitching from the Old Testament.

01:21:34 What is it, Marcionism, right?

01:21:36 The idea that basically the New Testament trumps the Old Testament,

01:21:40 which is, I mean, honestly, here's the irony. 0.99

01:21:42 That's a really Islamic way of reading the scripture. 0.88

01:21:46 It's an Islamic hermeneutic. 0.92

01:21:49 It's also a Jewish hermeneutic. 0.91

01:21:51 Both Judaism and Islam picks and chooses certain texts to trump other texts, 0.91

01:21:58 and they have to have that hermeneutic way of reading their sacred texts because it's so 0.96

01:22:04 blatantly contradicting. But that's the beauty of the Christian faith is that there's actually

01:22:08 no contradiction. You can esteem every single jot and tittle of the Word of God as, in fact,

01:22:15 the Word of God, infallible from Genesis all the way to Revelation without having to choose one

01:22:20 text over the other because no two texts ever directly contradict. There are apparent

01:22:26 different contradictions that need to be carefully studied and reconciled, but there is no true

01:22:32 contradiction. Wherever there appears to be a contradiction, the contradiction lies in the

01:22:36 heart of man and not in the text of God's word. So why do Christians, and obviously the guy who 0.95

01:22:43 wrote in the super chat, he seems to understand this. So why do Christians think otherwise? Well,

01:22:48 I think it's because Christians have adopted a very foreign, and I might add novel, hermeneutic 0.99

01:22:56 that they're not reading the scripture as historic Christianity always has. It's very novel, 0.98

01:23:02 and it's either Islamic in some sense, right? Isn't it the latter text? The further you get 0.66

01:23:08 the Quran, the more authoritative it is. So if you read something early on, and then you read

01:23:14 something later, and they contradict blatantly with one another, the later passage would trump

01:23:19 the former passage. So there's an Islamic hermeneutic, but we've got to be fair, right?

01:23:24 equal offenders here it's not just islamic uh that's that's also jewish right is it was it in 0.91

01:23:30 the jerusalem you know talmud or the babylonian like yeah well this one actually carries more

01:23:34 weight than this other one and these latter texts you know actually uh override the former text

01:23:38 um judaism uh modern judaism and uh islam have a very similar hermeneutic right they do and uh

01:23:49 and i'll be honest we've got a lot of muslims in this country but that's a pretty recent development

01:23:53 wouldn't you say i think that's fairly recent and there still are very small proportion like jews

01:23:58 are as well three percent or so muslims are probably under a little bit of that but they're 1.00

01:24:02 just so annoying i guess my point is that jews have been here longer oh yeah the the muslim 1.00

01:24:07 you know um addition to these united states of america is more of a novel um addition 0.87

01:24:14 whereas the jewish influence has has been here for quite a while and uh and so my point is um

01:24:22 to answer the question, why do we have all these Christian pastors who are reading the Bible with

01:24:27 an Islamic or Jewish hermeneutic? I would say because a lot of these Christian pastors have

01:24:34 actually been influenced by Islam or Judaism. And I would argue probably 90% of the time,

01:24:40 it's more so Judaism than it is Islam. I think it's because of Judeo-Christianity. I think it's 0.85

01:24:45 because of the influence of Zionism on American churches,

01:24:51 particularly evangelical Protestant churches.

01:24:54 And so they have, you know, you see evangelical pastors

01:24:57 even inviting Jewish rabbis to come and speak on the Lord's Day

01:25:01 behind the pulpit during the church to preach a sermon.

01:25:05 People who don't even believe that Jesus is the Son of God,

01:25:09 they reject Christ and they're preaching at church.

01:25:12 Talk about blasphemy. 0.73

01:25:13 I mean, that's absolutely insane.

01:25:15 but they've allowed these individuals to have an immense amount of outsized influence on their

01:25:22 doctrine, their theology, their metrics, their pragmatism, all the way down. And so the fact

01:25:28 that you now have Christian ministers and Christian churches treating the Bible, New 0.82

01:25:33 Testament, trumping the Old Testament, Marcion, well, I would say that's kind of a Jewish thing 0.81

01:25:39 to do. And, oh, well, look, you've opened the door wide to a bunch of Jewish influence. This 0.96

01:25:44 makes sense that's that's one of the ways i would account for it yeah i think it's easy to to come

01:25:49 across as nice kind tolerant and just honest for one the new testament is shorter uh paul had

01:25:55 written more there'd probably be more that he would have said but if you kind of take the new

01:25:59 testament in isolation you take the ethics of jesus for example the sermon on the mount

01:26:02 you kind of just isolate them and hold them in and of themselves you can kind of come across as

01:26:06 really tolerant nice and affirming and inclusive and that is our modern religion we talked about

01:26:12 that in our episode about the big event from world war ii the new religion is niceness and

01:26:16 inclusion right at any cost and so the old testament with josiah taking wicked priests

01:26:21 and putting them to death it's a little bit hard to square but pull a portion and a verse and a

01:26:26 passage from the new testament kind of cobble them together you can be nice you can adhere to

01:26:31 the modern religion and uh get to kind of have your cake and eat it too and so the old testament's

01:26:35 like it's a little icky it's a little violent there's a lot of blood i would prefer my misreading

01:26:39 of Jesus and misreading of Paul to actually really just kind of affirm what I wanted to do

01:26:43 anyway. Well said. All right. Last super chat of the day. This is from Cousin Ree. He gave us

01:26:49 two bucks. We appreciate that. He said, Joel just said, por favor, and I'm not sure how I feel.

01:26:57 It's fair. It's harsh, but fair. It's true. Yep. All right. Well, thanks for tuning in. That is

01:27:03 the broadcast for today, and it is Friday. So those of you who are new to the channel,

01:27:07 make sure to subscribe and click the bell on youtube you can just search right response

01:27:13 ministries on youtube subscribe and click the bell and then on x our handle is at right response

01:27:19 m the letter m as in ministries there wasn't enough room to put the whole thing so it's just

01:27:24 right response m at right response m on x same thing uh give us a follow click the bell our

01:27:30 broadcasting schedule is as follows we do every monday wednesday and friday at 3 p.m central time

01:27:37 So three live streams every week, Monday, Wednesday, and Friday at 3 p.m. Central Time.

01:27:42 It's Friday, so Lord willing, we will see you again on Monday.

01:27:46 And we only have a couple weeks left at this point.

01:27:48 It's December 5th.

01:27:50 We're going to do next week.

01:27:51 We're probably going to continue through the following.

01:27:55 And then we're going to take about a week, week and a half off for the holidays.

01:27:59 And then we've got some big things that will be unveiled in the new year.

01:28:04 Very excited about that.

01:28:05 Thank you guys so much for, is this a last minute?

01:28:09 Last minute?

01:28:10 It is.

01:28:11 All right.

01:28:11 Heath, Cliff, and Fagan.

01:28:14 Okay.

01:28:14 He said, have you over at Right Response Ministries considered making religious slash political films, documentaries, or informative videos to generally capture a modern Christian nationalist thesis?

01:28:27 Go for the big screen.

01:28:29 I think that's great.

01:28:30 Great idea.

01:28:30 And we actually do have some film-like project in the works to be released next year that would

01:28:41 not just be a regular podcast, but would be highly produced and a lot of different B-roll

01:28:49 and footage and citations and all these different things, more of a documentary film style. And

01:28:55 you'll have to stay tuned. We'll announce more in the new year, but that's a great idea. We

01:28:59 appreciate it. God bless you guys. Thanks for tuning in and we will see you Lord willing on Monday.

`witch hunt`	Both words, anywhere in the episode.
`"witch hunt"`	The exact phrase.
`witch OR hunt`	Either word.
`"alpha male" -"high value"`	The first phrase, but not the second.
`(feminist OR feminism) AND (marriage OR divorce)`	Parentheses group alternatives.
`"decline civilization"~5`	Both words within 5 words of each other.

`misogyn*`	Any word starting with "misogyn": misogyny, misogynist, misogynistic…
`feminizm~1`	Words one letter off: catches typos and transcription errors.

`person:"Andrew Tate"`	Episodes where they host, guest, or are mentioned.
`host:"Glenn Beck"`	Episodes they host.
`guest:"Jordan Peterson"`	Episodes they appear on as a guest.
`mentioned:"Andrew Tate" -host:"Andrew Tate"`	Talked about on other people's shows.
`show:"Bannon's War Room"`	Episodes from one show.

`topics:abortion`	Episodes tagged with a topic (see the Topics page).
`summary:"Andrew Tate"`	Words in the episode summary. Summaries are machine-written and can be wrong.

`"great replacement" AND episode_date:[NOW-1YEAR TO NOW]`	From the past 12 months.
`lockdown AND episode_date:[2020-01-01T00:00:00Z TO 2020-12-31T23:59:59Z]`	From one year. Dates need the full time, as shown.
`"high value" AND misogyny_count:[100 TO *]`	Episodes with 100 or more sentences flagged as misogynistic. Also: hate_speech_count, toxicity_count, word_count.

The NXR Podcast - December 05, 2025

THE LIVESTREAM - Answering Kevin De Young’s Questions About Christian Nationalism

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript