The NXR Podcast - THE LIVESTREAM - Aristotle, Multiculturalism, & The UK Riots

00:00:00.000 Reformed Christians are skeptical of the writings of pagan philosophers such as

00:00:07.720 Aristotle, Plato, and Plutarch. After all, these men did not possess the gift of regeneration,

00:00:14.160 the Holy Scriptures, or the Holy Spirit. But as we grapple with the reality of forced

00:00:21.440 multiculturalism, unchecked immigration, and burning cities in the UK, it is time to consider 0.82

00:00:29.120 the possibility that the great Western thinkers that our Reformed fathers extensively relied on, 0.99

00:00:35.920 quoted, and used left us great wisdom and insights for our struggles today. Tune in now as we discuss

00:00:44.720 the Reformation tradition, Aristotle, and his writings on the possibility of functional multiculturalism.

00:00:59.120 all right all right we're a duo again yep so okay for those of you who are just now

00:01:06.400 tuning in uh we the last couple weeks it was just me and michael and uh these two weeks it's just me

00:01:12.280 and wesley and then we'll have all three again with without michael here i think i'm gonna start

00:01:15.800 telling you how i really feel time to let loose uh no so we've got a nice light topic aristotle

00:01:22.540 multiculturalism and the uk riots and they've kind of all blended together this whole conversation

00:01:28.540 some of the things that have got me thinking specifically on this topic. They do come from

00:01:31.900 social media. However, this live stream, this article that I wrote, it's not intended to be

00:01:36.520 a referendum or a response to any thinkers. I would say there's good men on both sides who

00:01:40.600 would say maybe we should avoid using these men. There's greater wisdom that can be found.

00:01:44.780 And others that would say, hey, they had some good insights. Maybe we should rely on them more.

00:01:49.220 So I think there's good men on both sides. This isn't intended to be a response, a hit piece,

00:01:53.980 anything like that. But something that we've been thinking about, and I say we more,

00:01:58.040 this church here and in Georgetown. We're starting a classical school, and I'm actually not involved

00:02:02.400 in it, but you are, Joel. Michael is. Brian Hensley is the headmaster, doing a great job,

00:02:06.980 and it's going to be St. George's Classical School. So, it's going to be a Christian school,

00:02:10.960 but not just Christian. So, it's not as though it's mathematics homework, and at the top is a

00:02:14.820 verse, and there it is. It's a Christian school. It's going to be a classical school. It's going

00:02:19.620 to be rooted and grounded in the Western tradition, in Western thought. So, we've been doing a book

00:02:24.580 Club, and I know myself, I've been reading Seneca this year, Letters from a Stoic. And what I've

00:02:29.500 come to realize, what I've been becoming more aware of as I read them, and then I go and I read

00:02:35.180 Calvin and I read Luther and these other guys, is there's a connection between them all that feels

00:02:41.340 really foreign to us neo-Calvinists. So for myself, I came into the doctrines of grace probably over

00:02:46.300 10 years ago now. But one thing, if you kind of came into Calvinism at that time, was total

00:02:51.380 depravity. That man is a sinner, that he is totally depraved, he can't save himself. The heart of the

00:02:57.180 sinful man, it says in Romans, Paul, is hostile to God. It doesn't submit to his law, and it cannot.

00:03:02.960 But what functionally happened kind of then, I think, and you can tell me if you felt the same 1.00

00:03:06.420 way, was we put unbelievers in this category of, yeah, they're helpful, yeah, they maybe point out

00:03:11.980 some good things, but really everything that maybe you could find in there, we can probably already

00:03:16.880 find in scripture. And so, helpful, but kind of the unnecessary category. And we did that. And we

00:03:22.920 took Plato, and we took Aristotle, and we took Plutarch and Seneca. We also took functional

00:03:27.220 things like weightlifting. We also took things like eating healthy, starting businesses, having

00:03:32.780 a vocation. We kind of took a lot of these things for one reason or another. We put them in this big

00:03:38.020 grab bag. We said, well, personal piety, devotion. Those are the things that matter more, and they

00:03:45.500 do matter and they do matter most but they matter at the cost of these other things and as now as 0.97

00:03:51.020 we see cities burn in the uk as we grapple with the unchecked immigration that's happening at our

00:03:55.520 border i think what some of us are realizing is that we left behind a lot of good stuff we left

00:04:03.120 behind great thinkers like i just i can tell on myself aristotle much much much smarter man than

00:04:09.300 i am much smarter man than you much smarter man much smarter man than the listener and that doesn't

00:04:14.240 mean in areas of salvation, theology proper, but these were men that spoke 10 languages,

00:04:20.560 that traveled all around the world, that walked and lectured and debated daily.

00:04:25.760 And so maybe what I'm coming to learn is that epistemic humility about where we are, about

00:04:31.880 where we come from, and about those that came before us is probably going to go a lot farther

00:04:36.400 than having a bit of a reductionistic modern view, that it's me, it's myself, it's my Bible,

00:04:42.820 and I'm just going to try to do this politics thing.

00:04:45.360 I'm just going to try to do this economics thing.

00:04:47.500 I'm just going to try to do it all on my own.

00:04:50.520 I'm going to make it up as I go.

00:04:52.340 And what's funny is you do that and you come up with something.

00:04:55.320 And even if it's not bad, you then realize,

00:04:57.480 yeah, actually, the Westminster Confession just said all of this

00:05:01.060 a lot better than I could have.

00:05:02.760 And I could have saved myself the time.

00:05:05.980 Could have just read them.

00:05:07.320 Could have just relied on them.

00:05:08.380 And that goes for theology, certainly.

00:05:10.900 Calvin, Edwards, Augustine, the forefathers that we have in the faith.

00:05:14.400 But I think it goes a little bit beyond that.

00:05:16.180 I think the ancients knew some things.

00:05:18.120 Like I said, I'm reading Seneca's letters from a Stoic.

00:05:20.640 He's got some great stuff in there on friendship, on vocation, on being disciplined.

00:05:26.300 Discipline, friendship, these things matter.

00:05:29.060 Westminster Confession, I believe it's 1-6.

00:05:30.880 It talks about affairs that are common to human society and to civility,

00:05:34.940 that there is the Word of God and there is salvation, and those are of utmost importance.

00:05:39.900 but there are other common things that matter and we should dedicate thought to them consideration

00:05:45.400 to them and again not have this this mindset of just it's me and myself it's just these modern

00:05:52.280 readers it's just these modern authors i'm gonna do this a la carte right so don't know if you have

00:05:57.640 any thoughts on that no i agree um what was the quote do you have the quote that uh eric con posted

00:06:04.720 it on twitter last week sometime and then other guys dealt with it james white he had a rebuttal

00:06:11.160 and i think he dealt with it on the dividing line yeah what was it just about like um multi-ethnic

00:06:17.900 nations and that's not a great idea yeah so um this would be the quote this is from a author

00:06:24.660 gulliam is his name and so he said this of aristotle he said a multi-ethnic society is

00:06:30.760 necessarily anti-democratic and chaotic for lax philia profound flesh and blood fraternity of

00:06:36.760 citizens tyrants and despots divide and rule they want the city divided by ethnic rivalries

00:06:42.760 that's the background of the quote that kind of kicked off right use aristotle can we not what

00:06:47.580 is he saying here is it helpful for the christian and then what and then what did aristotle say

00:06:51.580 uh so aristotle said a couple things so um the ancients they didn't really use terms like

00:06:56.940 ethnic race culturalism like we do but aristotle said this for example this is in politics book

00:07:02.740 five and so book five is actually dealing with the question of revolution so aristotle's going

00:07:07.080 through and he's lecturing through the polis the city state and in book five he deals with

00:07:11.280 revolution so what are the things that disrupt tranquility of peoples and of cities and he said

00:07:15.880 it is the habit of tyrants to prefer the company of aliens to that of citizens at tables and in

00:07:21.080 society citizens they feel are enemies but aliens will offer no opposition to the tyrant

00:07:27.220 He also said, dissimilarity is conducive to factional conflict.

00:07:31.880 Those who have admitted joint settlers or later settlers of a different race have for the most part split into factions.

00:07:37.800 And again, he's observing.

00:07:38.980 He sent out, I think we were talking about this before, Aristotle, as part of his research,

00:07:43.360 actually sent out over 150 of his students to go gather the constitutions of different city-states.

00:07:49.780 So he has the students going out all over, gathering constitutions, and they're coming back to him and reporting.

00:07:54.940 This happened at this city. This is how this city was underdone. This is how this constitution

00:07:59.500 deals with the foreigner, with the citizen, with political affairs. And so he's relying on all that. 0.64

00:08:05.240 And so when he begins to lecture on division, lectures on the difficulty, lectures on revolution,

00:08:11.200 he draws examples and says, this is what happened in this city. These people were expelled by

00:08:16.900 foreigners that they let in. This is what it led to here, just a massive wealth of information

00:08:21.900 about the ancient world

00:08:23.740 that he relied on

00:08:25.340 to kind of come

00:08:25.800 to those conclusions.

00:08:27.080 Right.

00:08:27.940 I'm trying to look for

00:08:29.220 a specific,

00:08:33.940 there's something

00:08:34.540 that I wrote in response.

00:08:36.640 I found it.

00:08:38.940 Let's see.

00:08:41.400 This was the quote

00:08:42.960 that Eric Kahn posted.

00:08:46.820 He said,

00:08:48.060 it's similar to everything

00:08:49.100 that you've already quoted

00:08:50.300 from Aristotle,

00:08:50.920 but um this is uh well it's not even a quote from aristotle somebody commenting on it but uh it

00:08:58.260 says for aristotle democracy is possible only with homogenous ethnic groups while despots have

00:09:05.200 always reigned over highly fragmented societies that's what you said and then it goes a little

00:09:09.320 further and says a multi-ethnic society is thus necessarily anti-democratic and chaotic for lax

00:09:16.120 philea this profound flesh and blood fraternity of citizens tyrants and despots divide and rule 0.69

00:09:24.500 they want the city divided by ethnic rivalries the indispensable condition for ensuring a

00:09:30.680 people's sovereignty accordingly resides in its unity ethnic chaos prevents all philea from

00:09:37.400 developing and eric khan reposted it torba posted that initially eric khan reposted and said

00:09:44.420 aristotle was uh right and a bunch of people were upset with him uh kade kdub chris uh he's a

00:09:52.260 african-american christian reformed baptist uh who i believe also is like a christian rapper

00:09:58.940 and i've uh engaged him in a masters right i think i don't i don't know okay i don't know i

00:10:04.860 know he's definitely friendly to uh the john mccarthur camp but uh he retweeted eric so eric

00:10:10.220 Like, you know, Andrew Torba posts this thing about Aristotle saying, you know, multi-ethnic society is always, you know, multi-ethnic society that has a democratic form of government is going to be exploited by civil rulers and devolve into factions.

00:10:27.160 And so, you know, Torba is the one who posted that.

00:10:29.360 And then Eric Kahn reposted it saying Aristotle was right.

00:10:32.640 And then Chris reposted Eric saying racist would really hate heaven.

00:10:36.860 Thankfully, none will be there.

00:10:38.060 Now, it's debatable whether or not Chris was saying that Aristotle was a racist or Andrew Torbaugh was a racist or Eric Conn was a racist.

00:10:47.720 So there's debate there, I hope, to give him the benefit of the doubt.

00:10:51.780 I hope he's simply saying that Aristotle is a racist and won't be in heaven. 0.81

00:10:57.240 I would say Aristotle likely, sadly, won't be in heaven, not because he's a racist, but because he wasn't a Christian.

00:11:03.860 He didn't have the gospel, and he did not trust in the Lord Jesus Christ.

00:11:08.060 But all that being said, you know that Chris, you know, he may not be discounting Eric Kahn and Andrew Torber's salvation by his post.

00:11:17.980 Racists would really hate heaven.

00:11:19.400 Thankfully, none will be there.

00:11:20.800 But at minimum, he's, you know, giving him the most charitable reading.

00:11:24.360 He's saying that Aristotle won't be in heaven.

00:11:27.900 And one of the major reasons why is because of his alleged racism.

00:11:33.020 and uh and therefore you would have to assume that chris uh does not think that it's uh it's

00:11:40.280 he doesn't see it as a positive thing that andrew torba uh is posting this and that eric

00:11:46.220 is posting it saying aristotle was right right so anyway so then i i posted you know get through

00:11:52.280 you know my two cents into into the discussion um eric con is a friend and uh and so you know

00:12:00.520 But I really feel like he had a point in saying, you know, that Aristotle's right on this because I think Aristotle's right on this.

00:12:06.500 And I should say, we're not saying this with joy or glee.

00:12:09.480 This is an observation of something that could be true.

00:12:12.720 We're saying, maybe even unfortunately, we're recognizing the reality of the fall.

00:12:18.280 Yeah, we're not saying, isn't this great?

00:12:20.500 Like if I said, you know, hey, people who walk off the side of a cliff, they don't sprout wings, they're not able to fly, and they usually fall to their death.

00:12:28.060 that's not like i'm not wishing for that to be true i'm just acknowledging that observation

00:12:32.260 observation that it is true exactly so anyway so the the whole thing from aristotle saying you know

00:12:37.920 uh there's a few components here one is implicit uh but two are explicit um so the three three

00:12:44.320 components in total so aristotle is basically saying um i would say three ingredients of what

00:12:48.820 aristotle is describing one um a multi-ethnic state many you know a mixture of many different

00:12:55.120 ethnicities. That's one. But he's not just saying, hey, a multi-ethnic state won't work because

00:12:59.940 people aren't supposed to mix and every ethnicity should stick to themselves. That's not really what

00:13:05.940 Aristotle said. It's not even close to what he said. That's just one component. He's saying

00:13:10.700 multi-ethnic state, then that's one ingredient in this concoction. The second is multi-ethnic

00:13:19.880 state with a democratic form of government with democracy so it's multi-ethnic plus democracy

00:13:25.700 where everybody gets to vote or at least you know some of the people most of the people whatever

00:13:29.820 um and uh and then the third component those are the two that are explicit democracy is a form of

00:13:35.840 government multi-ethnic is is the you know composition the composition the polis that

00:13:40.860 makes it up and then third would be um implicit which is um but i think we can assume uh accurately

00:13:47.780 from Aristotle, is also being not Christian. So a multi-ethnic state, but a multi-ethnic state

00:13:55.840 that doesn't have the gospel, that's not Christian, and that also has a democratic

00:14:00.260 form of government. So multiple ethnicities in one nation, that one nation not being a Christian

00:14:06.820 nation, and that one nation of multiple ethnicities that are not Christian also having

00:14:11.340 a democratic form of government and in that scenario with those three ingredients

00:14:17.160 um eric khan is saying i think aristotle's right right and i happily will uh agree with eric khan

00:14:25.440 not because he's my friend i love eric and he is my friend but i'm happy to agree with eric and

00:14:30.780 saying that aristotle was right in this case because uh eric is right to say that aristotle

00:14:36.120 right in this case yeah in a non-christian nation with multiple ethnicities and a democratic form

00:14:41.600 of government um factions um from what we can observe throughout human history would be

00:14:47.200 inevitable um and none of that making that observation none of that is racist right um

00:14:53.300 not only was eric khan not racist and saying aristotle's right or andrew torba is not racist

00:14:58.680 by retweeting this quote this uh picture from aristotle but aristotle himself uh now maybe

00:15:04.960 he was a racist, but you'd have to demonstrate it from some other proof. In this particular

00:15:09.120 thought and concept of Aristotle's, nothing there is inherently racist. Because notice what he's not

00:15:16.160 saying that multi-ethnic states with a democratic form of government and then implicitly that are

00:15:21.860 also a state that's not Christian are inherently divided and not beneficial. Aristotle, that's all 0.73

00:15:31.600 says he doesn't go further that and say and also um secondly uh this one race is superior to all 0.82

00:15:38.960 the other ones and so that one shouldn't be tainted by the lesser inferior really like that's

00:15:43.260 that's not in the quote you know like if aristotle thought thought that then great you know then then

00:15:48.340 go ahead and show that and and then use that screenshot of that quote from aristotle to say

00:15:53.140 that aristotle's racist aristotle was the og too on critiquing democracy because exactly that he saw

00:15:58.880 that the rich and the poor, when you gave them kind of this equal standing and to have

00:16:02.880 contribution to the democratic rule of the city-state, that they would become factions

00:16:06.880 against one another. That the poor would want greater handouts. They would want

00:16:10.720 policies that would favor them. And so he was the OG of being negative. He also

00:16:14.740 didn't allow women to vote either. He was pretty OG on that. But 1.00

00:16:18.580 really perceptive in recognizing. It's funny, someone did it. It might have been Andrew

00:16:22.760 Isker. But he overlaid a voting map. And he overlaid it with

00:16:26.700 the ethnic demographics of the city and of the state what you realize is that um they match

00:16:32.920 pretty closely that democracy typically ends up being a bit of a popularity contest between

00:16:37.920 different factions well yeah exactly that's and that's all it is the reason why i have grown to

00:16:42.740 despise democracy is um because uh it's not we the people it's uh we we the some uh some people

00:16:51.400 and who are those people uh non-elected officials uh like what democracy what it uh gives uh lends

00:16:59.160 its strength to is instead of having um elected officials uh that have power is um a raw universe

00:17:06.740 because that's what we have is a universal democracy um everyone is allowed to vote right

00:17:11.900 everyone and just for the record you know yeah i think the 19th amendment should be repealed i

00:17:16.420 think that because well first and foremost because i'm a christian um you know and that is that is

00:17:20.940 the Christian position. Oh my gosh, you're saying that? Yes, that is the Christian position,

00:17:25.720 is that households should not be divided against one another. So it's not just elevating a male

00:17:30.780 vote, but it's elevating the household vote. We're saying that society, if you break it down to the

00:17:37.100 basic building block, is not atomistic as individuals, but molecular, being households.

00:17:43.240 The way that God sees humanity is He breaks them down to families. And so it's not just

00:17:50.120 random individual atoms all, you know, bouncing around together and, you know, 350 million atoms

00:17:56.820 bouncing together in one nation on one piece of land, but it's families. And so by repealing the

00:18:05.000 19th Amendment, just for the record, it's not just trying to take away a female vote, but it's trying

00:18:09.740 to say, no, there's a family vote. There's a household. And it's like, well, where do women 1.00

00:18:15.620 get their voice. Where women get their voice is from their father, from their husband. If they're 0.97

00:18:22.120 not married, it's from their father. If they're not married and their father's dead, it's from

00:18:25.500 their brother, it's from their uncle. It's the men in their lives that love them. It's the men

00:18:29.860 in their lives that love them. And also, it's worth noting that politics is warfare. That's

00:18:34.920 what politics is. It's war without the bullets, war without the blood. But politics very often,

00:18:41.680 unfortunately, in a fallen world, it is a war of ideas that's a cold war, but often,

00:18:51.500 sadly, heats up and becomes a hot war. It becomes a literal war. Many of the policies,

00:18:57.200 the people that you vote for and the policies that they put into action can lead to war or not.

00:19:07.100 And so it also makes sense that the people who are voting for said officials who may make certain declarations of war or put in certain policies that inevitably lead to war, it would make sense that the people who get to vote are the same people who have to go and fight.

00:19:24.260 so the idea that you know that you would have half of the population

00:19:28.060 that is now i know that's changing and that that too 0.98

00:19:31.520 is absolutely wicked and a tragedy that women could 0.64

00:19:35.000 eventually conceivably be drafted into the military not only serve

00:19:39.780 by their own volition but actually against their will be drafted and that's

00:19:43.500 a real conversation that wicked nations in rebellion against christ like ours

00:19:48.120 are actually having those conversations but traditionally

00:19:51.080 women were not serving in the military at least not in combat roles and uh and we you know not

00:19:57.080 that long ago wouldn't have even dreamed of ever drafting them and so uh at that period of time

00:20:01.520 which is not you know a thousand years ago you know we're talking about just you know a matter 0.99

00:20:05.600 of a couple decades uh when women could not be drafted uh in these united states and they also

00:20:11.000 were not fighting in combat roles it would make sense that the people who are going to vote

00:20:15.560 and that vote carrying the power to lend towards outcomes of war where lives can be lost would be

00:20:21.600 the same people who would have to back that vote up right so if we're all going to vote for you 1.00

00:20:27.020 know um president you know president idiot you know uh mr idiot for office and mr idiot's going 1.00

00:20:34.920 to start world war three um well you know uh the people who are going to go and die in world war 1.00

00:20:40.520 three are the people who voted into office you know so still a tragedy but at least it's kind of

00:20:45.140 fair. It's not fair if a bunch of people who don't own land, have no stake in the country in

00:20:53.440 its future, don't have children, aren't, you know, married statistically or are far less likely to be 0.98

00:21:00.180 married, and also are not going to have to fight in any war or face any of the repercussions,

00:21:06.060 in many cases also don't pay taxes, but instead are a burden on the tax system. To give those

00:21:11.020 people a vote um you know is uh absolutely um i mean it's just amazing it's it is it's stupidity 1.00

00:21:20.320 so aristotle called out too like one of the reasons he didn't allow it was slaves women 0.99

00:21:24.040 and children was also the time for because democracy was more than a vote too it was

00:21:28.200 arguing in the public square it was debate it was policy someone called that out in the comments

00:21:32.460 that it was much more robust and aristotle also wanted citizens to have the time to actually

00:21:36.500 dedicate to it to be able to go there to read to think to reflect on it so if an individual was a

00:21:43.280 manual labor worker for the entire day he didn't want those people then showing up and voting for

00:21:48.660 the person that's advertising free five hundred dollar checks free citizenship this that or the

00:21:53.020 other he identified those exact same problems of people need to have skin in the game and be able

00:21:57.960 to do the job well if they want to contribute to the well-being of the polis so i think one of the

00:22:04.080 you know, from a strategic standpoint, so I can argue, you know, biblically, it's very easy to

00:22:08.360 argue to repeal the 19th Amendment. Strategically speaking, politically speaking, I think, you know,

00:22:14.360 probably the more tactful line, you know, line of strategy is just to show the idiocy of universal 0.98

00:22:24.300 suffrage. So right now, for, you know, all intents and purposes, that's, I think, what a lot of good 0.91

00:22:30.340 Christian men should be arguing is just showing that universal suffrage is a bad idea. So rather 0.85

00:22:34.280 than saying, oh, women voting is a bad idea, just say, hey, the idea that we let anyone and everyone 1.00

00:22:38.940 vote, maybe that's a bad idea. Because with, you know, that kind of democracy, so Aristotle's not

00:22:45.700 even, he's, you know, like you just said, he's talking about a form of democracy that would be

00:22:51.180 a lot more sensical. But the form of, yeah, the form of democracy we have today allows, you know,

00:22:57.940 I mean, think about it. Like, if you go to the hospital, you know, you have to show some form

00:23:01.560 of ID. If you're going to drive a car, you know, you have to have an ID. If you're going to get on

00:23:06.080 an airplane, you have to have an ID, and, you know, you're probably also going to have to endure

00:23:09.780 a cavity, you know, search. And so, you know, but like, in everything that we do, you're going to

00:23:15.620 have to show some proof of ID, except for voting. Voting, you can go to a ballot box, and in the

00:23:22.580 united states of america uh that has uh even on the box four different languages mandarin and

00:23:28.560 spanish you know and like um it's it's i mean it's it's basically begging it's saying hey

00:23:34.020 please come and vote in our elections please feel something anything out you who are non-citizens

00:23:39.460 yeah um so it's i mean it's absolutely insane what we're doing uh so in that form of democracy

00:23:45.060 ultimately um it that a raw democracy which none of our founders had anything positive to say about

00:23:51.740 that form of democracy um a raw democracy devolves um inevitably always into an oligarchy

00:23:58.920 and uh an aristocracy you know that might work that i think there's there's some merit i'm not

00:24:04.020 saying it's the best form of government but there's an argument to be made for that being

00:24:07.400 a better form of government and really the only difference between an oligarchy and aristocracy

00:24:12.040 is that an oligarchy is um it's an aristocracy with a bunch of thugs people who are unqualified

00:24:19.260 for the role. And so it's like, well, how do you get that? Well, you get that from a raw democracy

00:24:24.880 because then all of a sudden, if anybody and everybody can vote, then really what you're

00:24:30.820 doing is by elevating everyone, what you've done is you've actually taken the voice away from all

00:24:37.100 the people that matter, all the people who have a stake in the country, they're rearing children,

00:24:41.340 they're planning to have posterity to the fifth and sixth and tenth generation, they own land,

00:24:47.220 they pay taxes, they work hard. All those people, their voice is silenced. And what's replacing that

00:24:55.820 is Taylor Swift, which a poll was recently done, as you know, that 20% of the people who filled

00:25:01.540 out this poll said that they would vote for whoever Taylor Swift was voting for. But she's

00:25:08.780 not an elected official, nor is she qualified for the role. You have a woman who has made

00:25:13.140 a multi-billion dollar

00:25:15.420 career writing songs about her 0.98

00:25:17.460 bad taste in men

00:25:18.500 all of a sudden having sway over

00:25:21.280 20% of the country

00:25:22.520 in which person to vote for

00:25:24.920 I mean you can't even

00:25:26.640 you can't even, the Babylon Beat

00:25:29.180 couldn't even write this kind of

00:25:31.060 and our scale is so huge, like think of the

00:25:33.220 founding fathers, you have 13 colonies that are

00:25:35.260 much less populated, but now we're talking

00:25:37.320 about 150 million

00:25:39.500 potential voters, and that

00:25:40.920 that changes right um i don't like aristotle someone that doesn't even include all the dead

00:25:45.760 people who vote right that doesn't the dead people the people that aren't on the rolls right uh so

00:25:50.840 the city-state even a critique of democracy at that smaller level how much more so when you have

00:25:56.160 people that can be influenced by the internet and social media that can reach out to millions of

00:26:00.820 people instantaneously right versus a small concentrated group of people that are tightly

00:26:05.460 together and that's the whole phenomenon of you know kamala harris right like um i think you know

00:26:12.240 there's an instinct matt wall said something along these lines but there's an instinct you know for

00:26:16.580 people on the right to say like um you know that uh the crowds that are assembling at like harris

00:26:22.000 campaigns that this is ai it's not real like you know you just you you want to deny it you know

00:26:27.340 and it's true that uh there were ai you know photos uh but the ai photos were from um an account that

00:26:34.680 that made them it was a satire account um you know and for every ai picture you know made by this you

00:26:41.000 know this you know anon account um there you know that for every one of those ai photos there were

00:26:47.060 10 real real photos um from multiple different accounts and videos exactly of uh no like so so

00:26:53.680 the the real line of attack i think for conservatives and you know at this point i

00:26:59.040 think it's better just to say those on the right because um conservative is not really a good word

00:27:03.580 Because right now to be a conservative, David French, Warren McIntyre made this point.

00:27:07.120 He's actually a good example of a conservative because what he's trying to do is conserve the status quo, what we currently have.

00:27:14.660 And so for David French, what that means is not getting us back to 1776 or the 13 colonies and even before that in the 1600s.

00:27:22.120 It's conserving the present, what we presently have now, which is giving all of your efforts and all of your fealty to the Civil Rights Act.

00:27:31.980 And so for someone like French, he really is a true conservative.

00:27:39.040 He really is, the more I think about it.

00:27:41.260 Because voting for Harris is the right move for someone who wants to preserve the god of civil rights.

00:27:50.620 And that is currently, that is what our nation pretty much is.

00:27:55.220 And so really, we need a better word.

00:27:56.740 So dissident right or Christian nationalist or something.

00:27:59.300 But conservative, sadly, conservative probably needs to be a term that we don't use anymore.

00:28:05.040 In some sense, we're progressives, right?

00:28:07.340 Like the liberal progressives really should be called regressives, because what they want

00:28:11.160 to do is actually regress and destroy everything.

00:28:13.340 We're true progressives.

00:28:14.260 We want to get us, you know, push us forward in the direction that God would have us.

00:28:17.960 So all that being said, you know, Matt Walsh was saying the line of attack with Kamala

00:28:21.160 Harris, you know, how do you explain that phenomenon of somebody who got less than 1%

00:28:25.240 of the vote in 2020 in the primaries, presidential primaries?

00:28:28.280 and then now you know has quadrillion billion you know people showing up to her rallies

00:28:33.180 well you don't try to just dismiss it by saying something that's categorically false like this is

00:28:38.940 all made up it's ai there are actually zero people there that well that's not true um no there are

00:28:43.760 tons of real videos and real pictures there are a ton of people there um and and you have to deal

00:28:48.720 with that and grapple with that the explanation is not just to to somehow sweep it under the rug

00:28:53.200 and pretend it doesn't exist the real explanation is to say this is the total state this is what

00:28:59.160 the total state does this is what the media does the media is capable of drumming up sensationalism

00:29:05.500 around anyone uh you know whether it's the hawk to a girl you know or whether it's you know somebody

00:29:11.280 who at least initially appeared to be more conservative like oliver anthony like the media

00:29:15.780 can take anyone uh whether they have uh skills or no discernible skills at all like hawk to

00:29:21.660 and kamala harris right two peas in a pod neither one has achieved anything in their life and yet

00:29:26.940 the media can make both of them a star um that's that the media is powerful and that's my point

00:29:32.760 in a raw democracy uh you really you don't have democracy you have oligarchy and the true oligarchy

00:29:39.180 is the media the media becomes um the true rule and so instead of elected officials you have

00:29:45.100 unelected, you know, journalist just dictating. It's a dictatorship, you know, but just with,

00:29:52.320 you know, a hundred dictators or a thousand dictators, you know, who are in lockstep with

00:29:56.980 one another instead of one. And they determine the course and the future of the entire nation

00:30:00.860 by simply putting pen to paper or getting behind a camera and willing what they want to be true

00:30:06.280 into existence. We were watching Tucker Carlson, he was on Sean Ryan, and he was asked as a viewer

00:30:11.020 question, who is the most powerful group of people right now in America? And he answered,

00:30:15.200 it's the McKinsey, Harvard, Fortune 500 types that run and are embedded in these media corporations

00:30:21.240 that are embedded in influential positions that when they say goes, what they say goes on a policy

00:30:26.400 and an idea on a person, that's what happened. Those are really powerful people because of the

00:30:31.300 amount of people they can influence, the money they have, the reach of legacy media. They are

00:30:35.980 powerful, powerful, powerful. And like you said, none of us elected them. None of us asked for our

00:30:40.540 mackenzie ruling elite we just got them because they navigated and they got in there and now they

00:30:46.220 hold immense power so all those things being said in that kind of democracy and and in aristotle's

00:30:53.060 defense he was talking about a democracy that's uh that's better than our current democracy and

00:30:58.440 what i just described much smaller where you know where kamala harris you know could get less than

00:31:02.840 one percent of the vote and then four years later um become a sensation um that everybody loves

00:31:09.520 just because the media wills it to be so.

00:31:12.360 So the form of democracy that we have,

00:31:14.320 Aristotle would have, if anything,

00:31:15.920 worse, more severe warnings to issue.

00:31:18.640 But the point is,

00:31:19.980 with our current kind of democracy,

00:31:22.160 and Andrew Torba retweeting this,

00:31:23.740 and Eric Kahn retweeting this,

00:31:25.240 and our current multiculturalism that we have,

00:31:29.520 where we are importing,

00:31:30.980 we're not importing Christians, 0.98

00:31:33.120 we're not importing Europeans and Brits 0.60

00:31:36.800 and the French.

00:31:37.980 like we are importing the third world um in many cases not exclusively i'm not saying that's it but

00:31:43.500 but in many cases we are importing the third world uh doing it illegally but intentionally

00:31:49.380 it like it's by design it is on purpose um and then allowing uh for them to vote not in terms 0.58

00:31:56.780 of policy but by enacting policies that uh that ensure that it can't be stopped right like because 0.79

00:32:03.180 oh it's voter suppression to ask for a driver's license why because well we all know that black 1.00

00:32:07.500 people are stupid and they could never figure out how to get a driver's license right how insulting 1.00

00:32:11.300 is that you know like and yet at the same time it's become a common trope for me to sit here 1.00

00:32:16.220 and say well democrats are the true racist like of course they are but we we've got to have you

00:32:20.620 know that that line of rhetoric we've got to do better as you know people on the right if we're

00:32:24.540 going to win um like could you imagine if the if the uh roles were reversed the tolerant left right

00:32:30.120 back at it like yeah we've been saying that for 20 years no gonna win we don't need to just point 0.99

00:32:34.560 out that the left has no standards and that they're hypocrites. Of course, they have no 0.97

00:32:39.520 standards and they're hypocrites. And how are we going to beat them? By pointing out that they're 1.00

00:32:42.400 hypocrites? No, because they have no shame. They'll just continue to do it. The way that you beat them 0.99

00:32:46.520 is you actually seize real power, and by the grace of God and his loving kindness, you crush them.

00:32:52.880 That's how you do it. You have to win. You have to wield real power and crush them.

00:32:58.120 So all that being said, I retweeted Eric trying to give him a defense and also just say what's

00:33:03.000 true i said um uh this particular quote from aristotle is not racist it doesn't assert the

00:33:08.960 superiority of one ethnicity above another i said here's a you know another point uh eric didn't

00:33:13.740 condemn uh multi-ethnic nations like by saying aristotle was right uh well then he's he's just

00:33:20.380 agreeing with what aristotle said and technically aristotle did not uh explicitly outright condemn

00:33:25.620 um multi-ethnic nations um he's primarily what eric is concerned with by sharing aristotle and

00:33:32.380 I think part of what Aristotle's getting at is not just the emphasis on, hey, maybe multi-ethnic

00:33:36.400 nations aren't a good idea, but multi-ethnic nations with a democratic form of government.

00:33:41.620 And so I know, knowing Eric, that Eric's primary, primarily was condemning not multi-ethnic nations, 0.53

00:33:48.120 but our current democracy, which plays off of ethnic differences to garnish further power for

00:33:53.200 the elite ruling class. And then another point I said, Aristotle is generally correct, in my view,

00:33:59.280 He's generally correct in this particular point, that a multi-ethnic nation with a democratic form of government is going to bring about bad results and division. 1.00

00:34:11.400 I think Aristotle is mainly correct in that. 1.00

00:34:14.440 But then I said, however, in a Christian nation, I would like to believe that Aristotle would have been proven wrong. 0.71

00:34:20.440 However, all of you have spent the last two years assuring us that we can't have a Christian nation.

00:34:26.540 um and then lastly i said oh by the way because you know k dub said you know racist won't be in

00:34:32.260 heaven i said and by the way i'm looking forward to seeing jonathan edwards and rl dabney in heaven

00:34:36.980 and worshiping with them for eternity so my point is saying uh it's just funny to me that all the

00:34:43.520 people who are objecting to this quote from aristotle not all of them um i would disclude

00:34:49.720 James White from this, but a lot of them, like Chris, K-Dub, and many others of like

00:34:55.760 the MacArthur camp and that kind of thing, like Calvinistic Baptists, like guys who aren't

00:35:01.800 really Reformed but are Neo-Calvinists, like what you said earlier.

00:35:07.660 That camp is balking at the idea that Eric Kahn, who is a pastor, a Reformed pastor and

00:35:17.000 claim to love Jesus would positively retweet Andrew Torba, and God forbid, you know, and who's

00:35:25.580 tweeting Aristotle, you know, and Aristotle, what's the big point that Aristotle's making? 1.00

00:35:30.740 That multi-ethnic nations are a bad idea. And so Eric Kahn, you know, like, this is terrible. I

00:35:35.160 can't believe you're doing this. Well, all the people who are balking at that, and so greatly

00:35:38.920 offended by that, are the people who literally spent the last two years, I can show you all the

00:35:43.980 receipts, just what they said to me over the past few years, these are the people who were

00:35:49.580 absolutely, utterly insistent that there's no such thing as a Christian nation, and you can't ever

00:35:55.200 have a Christian nation. You can't legislate the first table of the law, and you can't, you know, 0.99

00:35:59.900 all these, like, you must have a nation that, yeah, it honors God in some sense, and maybe the

00:36:05.920 second table of the law, you know, you pull from the Bible as it pertains to our love for our

00:36:10.180 neighbor, but you absolutely can't have blasphemy laws or blue laws or Sabbath laws, and the nation

00:36:16.860 absolutely cannot prefer one religion like Christianity above other religions, and the

00:36:21.460 nation absolutely cannot self-identify in its own documents, like a preamble to the Constitution,

00:36:28.700 having the Apostles' Creed. It can't identify as a Christian nation because the only thing that can 0.98

00:36:33.460 be Christian is an individual. You can't have a Christian family. You can't have a Christian nation. 1.00

00:36:37.680 you can't have a Christian school, you can't have a Christian anything. That group, the you can't 1.00

00:36:43.780 have a Christian nation and Christian nationalism is the devil. That group is the group that's 1.00

00:36:49.340 balking at this. And that's the irony, the hypocrisy, is that I'm saying, no, I think

00:36:56.960 Aristotle's right, given those three components, two being explicit, one being implicit. The two

00:37:02.380 being explicit is multi-ethnic being uh the what compromises you know the population of a nation

00:37:09.400 being multi-ethnic democratic form of government which i've already you know we've spent weeks

00:37:15.400 talking about how we think that's probably not a good idea but then also implicitly the third

00:37:19.420 component that's implicit is for aristotle is uh an absence of christ that it's not a christian

00:37:25.300 nation in that scenario aristotle is right if you have a democratic form of government 0.97

00:37:30.880 which i think is stupid and um you're importing the third world and throwing a bunch of people 0.97

00:37:37.160 who have very little in common um uh together in in some milieu a soup uh and uh you top it off 0.99

00:37:45.320 uh by saying oh and there's uh christian nationalism is the devil and christian nationalism

00:37:50.040 is is uh that's just the third reich and hitler and that's a cult and um yeah okay well then

00:37:55.620 then you're just proving aristotle's point yeah uh but if you would let us have some christian

00:38:01.220 nationalism and stop being insufferable and and do a little you know do the reading as stephen

00:38:06.700 wolf would say and you know just just grow up a little bit and read a little bit and educate

00:38:11.100 yourself read some calvin read some you know uh some some luther read you know if you looked into

00:38:17.020 some of these things and realize oh we can have a christian nation because not only uh is it

00:38:22.100 theoretically possible, but we could have it in the future because we literally had it in the past,

00:38:26.460 and we didn't just have it a thousand years ago. We had it arguably 150 years ago, and we didn't

00:38:30.960 have it on the other side of the world. We had it here. So we've had it before, and we've had it

00:38:34.500 here, and if God would be so kind, we could have it again. So if you take that approach and say,

00:38:39.080 one, we can't have a Christian nation. My bad. I was wrong about that. Sorry for being a troll

00:38:42.820 the last two years. I'm on your team. Let's work towards a Christian nation. Let's honor God.

00:38:47.060 And then two, we've got all these different ethnicities that are already here, and those who are illegal should be deported, but for everybody who is a legal citizen, we're going to have to learn how to figure something out, and so let's emphasize the Christianity, and also as we emphasize being a Christian nation with an inter-ethnic population, let's also maybe work on our form of government and make sure that we actually get back to representative government

00:39:15.360 and more of a republic or some other kind of form.

00:39:20.760 Or original constitution, the civil rights one.

00:39:23.200 Exactly, rather than the Civil Rights Act as a de facto,

00:39:26.360 as Christopher Caldwell argued a de facto constitution

00:39:30.940 that replaced the actual...

00:39:32.860 So let's try to get back to the actual constitution

00:39:34.940 instead of this de facto civil rights constitution

00:39:37.200 that replaced it, because for all intents and purposes,

00:39:39.340 that's what it did, it replaced it. 0.63

00:39:41.000 So let's get rid of the imposter constitution of civil rights.

00:39:44.420 um let's also get rid of a raw democracy where um not only can everyone vote but we're actually

00:39:51.260 um we're actually going out of our way government officials are going out of their way to make sure

00:39:55.640 um that the least vested uh members of our society have a vote that criminals have a vote

00:40:01.780 non-tax-paying citizens have a vote non-citizens have a vote uh democrats what think about like

00:40:07.540 what what is a democratic party uh what is their stance what's their their platform when it comes

00:40:12.220 of voting they want to lower the age of voting right so they want children voting um they want

00:40:17.880 single uh women without children voting uh they want uh non-citizens voting so like what what do 0.65

00:40:25.040 they want like to sum it all up um what they want is destruction yeah that's what they want they

00:40:31.280 they absolutely because they know in terms of their policies their policies are not good for

00:40:36.020 the most outstanding citizens of these united states i just saw today for any committed member

00:40:40.880 of the united citizen of the united states who pays taxes works hard and is virtuous

00:40:44.840 the democratic policies are his enemy so then what do they have to the only way they can win

00:40:50.420 elections is to make sure that that the bad guys get a vote that's what they've always been about

00:40:56.520 married men married women and unmarried men are the three groups republicans typically carry 0.93

00:41:00.860 and it's single women the democrats that's that's the group holding them up and there's other 0.99

00:41:05.600 factors in there that somehow hold them up right because what do you call a married woman right 0.97

00:41:10.360 you call her a conservative, right? 1.00

00:41:12.500 Like women are liberal until they get married. 0.68

00:41:14.800 And it's like, well, what changed their mind? 0.83

00:41:16.480 Like, well, a man, that's what changed their mind.

00:41:18.940 And that's good.

00:41:19.440 And right now that's part of God's pattern

00:41:20.660 is that you get married, 0.57

00:41:21.640 you come underneath male headship,

00:41:22.960 even if you don't like to call it that

00:41:24.220 and you want to deny that that's what's going on.

00:41:26.820 But what happens is you come into a relationship

00:41:28.980 with a man who ordinarily, if he's a good man,

00:41:31.320 he loves you and you see his love

00:41:33.360 and commitment towards you and towards your children.

00:41:35.540 If God would be so gracious as to open your womb

00:41:37.480 and give you offspring,

00:41:38.560 spring you see that man provide for you provide for the children and then that man says this is

00:41:42.720 what's good um and this is what's best for our household and the average woman in that kind of

00:41:48.660 scenario she says okay i trust you and children to bring men to the right i think torva and jd

00:41:53.640 vance as they got married and had children then that's right like oh i'm rethinking these things

00:41:58.400 right if you're a young man and you want to be radicalized get married and have a kid have

00:42:02.400 daughters yeah have oh my gosh i've got my fourth daughter now on the way and uh there are two

00:42:07.660 things in life uh that that make me you know the meme come come to life where it's like after a

00:42:13.040 careful consideration i've decided to become worse like what what makes me become more and more

00:42:16.680 radicalized are two things uh with every daughter that i get i get like 10 times more radicalized

00:42:22.000 and every trip to costco i was about to say and every time i smell weed i just get another 15

00:42:27.720 more there's a few things yeah you smell weed and it's like i'm gonna christian nationalism even

00:42:32.740 harder i went to costco and i i don't even think i'm in america anymore and now i'm more of a

00:42:38.080 christian nationalist and i've got my fourth baby girl on the way and uh there's no brakes on this

00:42:42.920 train at that point with the fourth girl on the way at that point it's like all right i'm gonna

00:42:46.460 become you know the christian uh franco i'm gonna do it myself i'm gonna do it myself gonna pick up

00:42:52.540 the team put them on my back you know and here we go so um but my point is commercial break yeah

00:42:56.800 we'll go to but real quick to just to land the plane my point is just to say that um eric khan

00:43:02.040 and andrew torba were not being racist by sharing this concept of aristotle and for the record we're

00:43:07.340 not sitting here and saying well aristotle is infallible of course he's not and we're not even

00:43:11.060 saying that he's as good as calvin or something like calvin had some some strong negative things

00:43:15.440 to say about aristotle but also positive things that we'll get to um as well but uh but we can

00:43:20.660 recognize uh that that aristotle as as a human being made in the image of god um was able to

00:43:27.860 look to the light of nature and discern accurately some things that God has baked into the fabric of

00:43:32.420 the world. And I think this is one of those things. Aristotle realized that if you take people who

00:43:37.920 are strangers to one another and have very little in common, they don't have religion in common,

00:43:41.560 they don't have culture in common, they are strangers and aliens to one another, and you 0.86

00:43:46.800 put them in the same place, and then you give all of them a little piece of the pie. You give every

00:43:51.960 single one of them a vote over the future direction and decisions of that nation, they are naturally

00:43:58.920 going to be played upon by corrupt, you know, overseers and rulers in order to go against one

00:44:05.640 of them. Like somebody's going to be running for office and they're going to want to get more votes

00:44:10.280 and so what are they going to say? If all the white people are voting for the Republican, then

00:44:15.260 then the democrat candidate is going to say well you know for all you black people uh what i promise 1.00

00:44:21.660 is that um we'll do a bigger welfare checks and uh and also you'll be able to murder your babies 0.98

00:44:28.340 all the way up to 40 weeks and for anyone who's like oh man that one was too real um well yeah

00:44:34.520 it's real that's that is what democrats have been doing for a very long time in order to get the

00:44:40.900 black vote and i'm not saying every black person sees those things as virtuous they don't but

00:44:45.220 sadly a lot do yeah a lot do and that's just that is the current state of of our nation and we're 0.97

00:44:51.480 not going to get out of this mess if we can't even say it if we can't even acknowledge this is where

00:44:55.280 we're at and if we're going to fix it one let's be a christian nation and for all people who love

00:45:01.520 jesus and claim to be christians who keep telling us and insisting we can't have a christian nation

00:45:05.680 maybe just sit a few plays out. So first, let's actually try to have a Christian nation from top

00:45:11.520 to bottom. And then secondly, let's figure out how to get along with the different ethnicities

00:45:18.920 and how the gospel brings reconciliation for everybody who's already here. But maybe let's

00:45:22.900 stop importing by the millions more people from other countries that are incompatible, 0.77

00:45:29.060 currently incompatible with these United States like Somalia. And so let's stop the immigration 1.00

00:45:35.560 uh let's try to be christian and then also uh let's maybe not have a raw democracy which our 0.99

00:45:42.380 founders abhorred but actually go back to some of the forms of government that were less democratic

00:45:47.800 um that we originally had those sound like really good ideas and i think that's that's all you you

00:45:54.460 could read what aristotle said in that quote and um and and that be your takeaway and say you know

00:46:00.340 what? Aristotle was essentially, for all intents and purposes, he was right. And anybody who's

00:46:05.460 retweeting him and echoing his sentiments and saying, yeah, I think Aristotle was right.

00:46:09.620 If you're going to respond by saying, that's racist, then you're just, that's great, but just

00:46:16.400 put out another rap album. But don't speak to politics because you're just, you're not,

00:46:21.600 it ain't for you. All right, let's go to our first commercial break.

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00:48:30.000 to claim your first free bag of coffee today. 0.97

00:48:34.320 Visit thewordsoap.com today.

00:48:36.880 Again, that's thewordsoap.com. 0.89

00:48:39.340 Everyone needs soap. 1.00

00:48:41.300 So wash yourself in the Word.

00:48:47.840 Okay, guys, we're back.

00:48:49.140 Help us out real quick.

00:48:50.140 We're trying to get our material out to as many people as possible.

00:48:53.620 And one thing that helps with the algorithm, as you know, is hitting the like button.

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00:49:00.840 now, or even if you're not watching live and you watch this a little bit later, hit the

00:49:04.820 thumbs up.

00:49:05.380 And also feel free to leave a comment.

00:49:07.120 In our last segment, we're going to try to address some of the comments, especially if

00:49:11.480 you pose your comment in the form of a question.

00:49:13.580 So if you've got a question, we've got one more segment here, then we're going to go

00:49:17.000 to our final commercial break, and then our final, we'll come back for one final segment

00:49:21.420 for the show today, and we'll try to address, engage with the comment section, especially

00:49:25.520 questions.

00:49:26.780 So help us with the algorithm by liking the video and also leaving a comment, especially

00:49:30.920 a question if you want it to be addressed at the end of the episode.

00:49:33.680 and uh that being said uh last uh little um item of business is you just saw the commercial

00:49:39.480 for our conference and uh our early bird registration uh we don't say exactly the

00:49:45.700 date and the time that that's ending uh in that commercial so i want to make it uh really plain

00:49:49.740 to everybody who's watching right now that's going to be over at the end of this month i believe

00:49:53.380 august has 31 days right 31 days nathan says yes so we've got 31 days in the month of august so i

00:49:59.620 think it's going to be um 11 59 p.m central time is that right nate all right so that's the close

00:50:07.420 11 59 p.m on august 31st central time so 11 59 p.m central time on august 31st which means you've

00:50:17.520 got whatever that is it's like two and a half weeks something like that so you don't have much

00:50:22.140 longer uh the price is going to go up right now it it really is incredibly cheap this is affordable

00:50:27.940 because we've done Friday and Saturday

00:50:30.220 with a holdover for the Lord's Day on Sunday.

00:50:33.160 That's just been our gig for the last couple of years

00:50:36.320 with our conference,

00:50:37.060 but we're breaking out of that mold

00:50:38.420 and we're adding a whole extra day.

00:50:40.080 So instead of Friday and Saturday,

00:50:41.640 this is gonna be a Thursday and a Friday,

00:50:44.680 full day Friday, full day Saturday,

00:50:46.360 and again, holdover for anybody

00:50:47.680 who wants to join us for the Lord's Day.

00:50:49.420 So you get a whole extra day.

00:50:50.720 We've got like 15 speakers without any exaggeration.

00:50:53.920 I think it's literally 14 or 15 speakers.

00:50:56.000 You've got Steve Dace.

00:50:57.020 you've got jeff durbin you've got warren mcintyre you've got all the augen boys you know you know

00:51:01.940 ben and brian and dan and uh eric and you've got um dusty deavers you've got uh david reese you've

00:51:08.860 got uh contra mundum you know with uh uh andrew isker you know boniface option he's coming out

00:51:14.320 so it's it's gonna be a fantastic uh conference we're gonna have eight main sessions and those

00:51:20.140 are each going to be about 50 minutes to an hour uh but eight main sessions uh traditionally we've

00:51:24.880 done the last couple of years, seven. So we're adding another main session. And then the big

00:51:28.380 thing that we're adding is panels. We're going to have 90 minute panels and not just one. Traditionally,

00:51:33.800 we've done one or two. We're going to have four. So we're going to have four main panels, each one

00:51:38.680 an hour and a half long. Some of them might even go a little bit longer where we're going to have

00:51:41.680 Steven Wolf. He's one of the guys I forgot to mention. He's going to do a main session, but

00:51:45.680 he's also going to be on the panels. We're probably going to set up a little bit of an

00:51:49.940 informal or friendly in-house, but debate between some of the more natural law, Christian

00:51:56.820 nationalist, Stephen Wolf types, and some of the more theonomic types like David Reese or Jeff

00:52:03.000 Durbin or Dusty Devers. And I find myself in the theonomic camp, but very friendly and sympathetic

00:52:08.340 to the Stephen Wolf crowd. And so, I might moderate and be somewhere in between. Me and

00:52:12.740 Iska would probably be very similar in that regard. Iska, he went to Greyfriars and loves

00:52:18.240 Doug Wilson and kind of cut his theological teeth with Rush Dooney and the Reconstructionist

00:52:23.980 and Van Til and all those kinds of things, and now he finds himself still very much agreeing

00:52:28.420 with a lot of those things and still comfortable with the term theonomic, but maybe not quite as

00:52:33.340 proud of the label as he might have been a few years ago, and more open to, okay, I think that

00:52:43.080 there's something to this protestant magisterial reformed tradition that uh that calvin held to

00:52:48.420 and and you know this this natural law christian nationalist position that you know most notably

00:52:53.400 in term in recent years has been outlined by stephen wolf it seems like that's kind of if

00:52:58.000 you're looking for the ark it's like what what it you know it just seems random you know guys are

00:53:02.080 you know they're switching teams and like what's what's the pattern here here's the pattern um

00:53:05.700 libertarian theonomic and then christian nationalist yes that's pretty much the pattern

00:53:11.700 is uh it's like um who i can't remember is this saying has been attributed to a ton of guys um

00:53:18.740 i think even uh thomas jefferson i don't know if he said it but it's been attributed to a lot of

00:53:23.460 guys it's the old saying that says uh if uh if you're not a liberal when you're young you don't

00:53:27.740 have a heart and if you're not a conservative when you're old you don't have a brain uh likewise i

00:53:32.320 would say for uh for men um if you're not uh a libertarian when you're young right if you're a

00:53:37.660 man and you weren't a libertarian in your 20s and you didn't absolutely love ron paul

00:53:41.680 then you know then i question uh whether or not you really are a conservative christian

00:53:45.440 you know so like when you're 22 years old um and if it was eight years ago uh you should have been

00:53:51.040 uh ron paul maxine and and libertarianism will save the world um but now that you're older if

00:53:57.780 you're in your 30s now that your brain's fully developed right if you're in your 30s and you're

00:54:01.320 still libertarian right like you know like a little bit of friendly fire here these are friends

00:54:07.720 that i'm not going to name but everybody will know who i'm talking about um if it's 2024 and 0.95

00:54:12.160 they're trying to chop off the genitals of children and uh and we're underpopulated and

00:54:16.460 not even hitting uh the uh the the levels needed in reproduction in order to sustain our own society 0.67

00:54:24.040 and you're demonizing uh tax child tax credits which is just reducing the amount you pay not

00:54:29.800 giving you money exactly they're not giving you money it's not theft they're not taking from the

00:54:33.020 rich and giving to the poor. Because you know who has children? People who pay taxes ordinarily.

00:54:38.220 And so they're actually, what the government is doing, and is the government tithing? I'll even

00:54:42.020 argue it from a theonomic perspective. Anything that rivals the tithe is theft. If the state

00:54:47.320 rivals God, God takes the tithe, that's 10%. If the state is asking for the same amount or more

00:54:51.980 than what God asked for, then it's theft, which means taxes, all taxes combined should be 9% or

00:54:56.740 less. 9% or less. Are you being taxed more than 9%? Yes. Do we have certain officials who are

00:55:03.800 saying that if I come into office, if you vote for me, and you have four children, then you will

00:55:09.380 get this amount of money? Well, did the government take more than 9% of your money? Then they're

00:55:14.980 giving your money back. They're not taking someone else's money and giving it to you.

00:55:20.380 What that policy does is they say, we're stealing from you, and we're still going to steal from you,

00:55:24.860 but we're going to steal less from you because you're doing something virtuous that helps all

00:55:29.200 society. You're saying incentivize is good? A government could do that?

00:55:33.240 So if you are, if your libertarianism under the, under the, you know, the guise of theonomy,

00:55:39.300 you know, like theonomic libertarianism is, is causing you in 2024 when they're castrating

00:55:45.220 children to, to stand in the way and make theological arguments against a tax child

00:55:50.440 credit then my goodness you just uh god bless you uh you'll always be friends you'll always be

00:55:55.560 brothers but you have lost the threat so the arc is libertarianism the theonomy you know and then

00:56:01.360 christian nationalism and i think i can hold on to my general equity theonomy and still be a

00:56:05.300 christian nationalist and appreciate natural law because honestly let's be honest for calvin for

00:56:09.200 all the reformers natural law was synonymous with the decalogue that's what natural law was it was

00:56:13.500 the ten commandments the ten commandments were simply uh god's specific application of natural

00:56:18.780 law so i don't i actually don't think that they're incompatible but anyways um that's that's what if

00:56:24.600 you're wondering like why are these guys changing because uh by god's grace we're growing up that's

00:56:28.660 why all right so anyways all that being said you want to see a debate you know see that but fleshed

00:56:33.340 out with other guys and maybe get heated you know maybe i don't know maybe we even get to maybe we 0.79

00:56:37.520 can rile jeff durbin up enough to see some of his uh kung fu you know that would be a good battle

00:56:42.000 like an older martial arts you know he's kicking steven wolf in the face you know like that i mean

00:56:46.580 Wolf's not a small dude, though.

00:56:47.840 That's right.

00:56:48.180 He's a hard-working...

00:56:48.920 Well, Wolf will probably be armed.

00:56:51.180 That is also true.

00:56:52.240 So that's the problem.

00:56:53.160 So Jeff Durbin, he's got the fighting skills, but Wolf might have a handgun on him.

00:56:57.960 So if you want to make sure that you don't miss some high-quality theological entertainment

00:57:03.460 and political and cultural commentary, then you are not going to want to miss this conference.

00:57:07.840 So April 3rd, 4th, and 5th.

00:57:09.880 That's a Thursday, Friday, Saturday.

00:57:11.380 Feel free to stick with us for the 6th, for that Sunday, the Lord's Day.

00:57:14.220 uh but you've got three full days plus you know three and a half if you count the lord's day

00:57:18.440 the third the fourth and the fifth of april 2025 and uh you got two weeks two weeks and then uh

00:57:24.860 we're done with the early bird registration and we've never done we're adding a full day

00:57:29.280 we're doubling the speaker lineup we're we're quadrupling the panels and um and yet we are

00:57:35.200 offering the lowest price we ever have we've never offered uh this price it's a hundred i believe it's

00:57:39.400 140 bucks i've been everyone and that is absolutely true so it's 140 bucks but it's

00:57:43.520 going to go up a good bit because honestly it's too cheap and we're going to we're not trying to

00:57:47.460 gouge people uh but we're also trying to we have a a duty to practice good christian stewardship

00:57:53.920 with the resources that people give to us and the form of donations and supporting this ministry and

00:57:58.580 all these kinds of things and uh we will lose money if uh if we don't raise the price because

00:58:03.120 140 is too cheap the venue alone and flying out 15 different guys and trying to treat them well

00:58:08.600 giving them honorariums and all these different things um the conference will probably cost us

00:58:12.880 about uh we've done the math because a lot of guys i'm just doing this because a lot of guys

00:58:16.740 are not forthright about money especially with conferences uh so i want to shoot you straight

00:58:20.760 the conference is probably going to cost us about 85 grand is what we're projecting and um and if

00:58:25.800 we have you know 800 to 1000 people which is what we had this year uh we had 850 people and we do

00:58:31.960 it all at uh the 140 rate and that's only for adults and then we do super cheap for kids and

00:58:37.080 if you're under 10 you're free um and so uh if we do that rate um we we will barely uh just a little

00:58:44.160 bit above breaking even for uh what we're predicting as the cost of this conference so

00:58:48.220 we have to raise the rate but you still got two weeks to get in at a buck 40 and uh you can watch

00:58:53.460 jeff durbin and steven wolf get into a boxing match yeah all right it'll be great all right

00:58:57.800 we'll go to questions soon but i want to give a modern example right talking about aristotle

00:59:01.400 multiculturalism so you've probably heard about the riots in the uk so it's this little town it's

00:59:06.520 less than 100,000 people.

00:59:07.620 It's called Southport, England.

00:59:09.660 And there was a terrible attack there.

00:59:11.540 A man went into a children's dance studio,

00:59:15.100 stabbed like 10 people and killed three children.

00:59:18.540 And so immediately what happened

00:59:19.540 on like telegram and messaging groups

00:59:21.100 was some people started spreading the message

00:59:23.240 that it was Muslim and it was an immigrant

00:59:24.940 and people took to the streets.

00:59:26.440 They accosted the prime minister

00:59:28.460 when he came to pay his respects.

00:59:30.020 How long, how many more are you going to let in?

00:59:32.800 Violence broke out.

00:59:33.820 There was arrests made.

00:59:35.220 Now what's interesting is,

00:59:36.220 so that happened it actually turns out the man wasn't muslim and wasn't a first generation

00:59:41.220 immigrant his parents were from rwanda but he had moved to southport in 2013 but what i think this

00:59:47.000 illustrates is right now these riots are ongoing it's funny because you had the aristotle debate

00:59:50.640 and then you have simultaneously in the uk enjoying the blessings of multiculturalism

00:59:56.000 of people sharing a space together such a blessing how horrific is it to like i feel like i hear and 0.94

01:00:02.800 this happened just in the u.s this week about a terrible thing an immigrant or a migrant does

01:00:06.620 to girls specifically every single week it just it almost desensitized this just happened up in

01:00:13.140 massachusetts a migrant tried to do something terrible to a 15 year old girl was let go

01:00:17.620 on 500 bail 500 bail and it's funny i was with my grandma so i was on vacation and she was talking

01:00:24.420 about she grew up here in the east coast and she was talking about how five six seven years old

01:00:28.860 she would just go to school she would go and play in the playground her parents didn't have

01:00:33.080 a second thought she would go to the corner store buy cigarettes for her mom at six years old they

01:00:37.820 were a close-knit tight society but but what they had is is they shared something and when you see

01:00:45.400 people reacting like a muslim immigrant yeah of course they must have done this people know that 0.72

01:00:50.120 it's not close people that have shared space for decades on end that know one another that go to 1.00

01:00:55.580 church that do terrible atrocities. What you're witnessing is, for one, a breakdown of law,

01:01:00.900 of God's law in society that restrains evil. The gospel also, the UK is rapidly apostatizing. The

01:01:06.660 Church of England is dying. So those things are happening. You're losing the Christian religion,

01:01:11.460 you're losing the restraint of law, and then you're observing what happens when people try 0.97

01:01:16.900 to share a space. You're literally watching it. Go watch the fireballs, go watch the arrests.

01:01:21.080 uh there are people now the uk has declared war none of the immigrants doing these terrible things

01:01:26.060 the ones that are actually criminals on the native britons themselves yeah i saw arresting them

01:01:30.520 it's like uh some kind of um you know civil servant runs into the office of the prime minister

01:01:35.980 of england and says uh sir they're rioting in the streets and burning down buildings you know and

01:01:41.580 and hurting women and children and he's sipping his coffee casually and he says oh i'm sure they 0.92

01:01:46.520 have a reason for their grievance and he says no sir i mean the white people he spits out his 0.97

01:01:51.760 coffee the prime minister he's like arrest them all off with their heads there's a 61 year old

01:01:57.600 man sentenced to i think 18 months in prison i saw for a facebook post for yeah for saying who

01:02:03.000 is all law yes there was that i mean there's so many of them well that one was different i'm sorry

01:02:07.280 that wasn't facebook that was a guy who shouted like who the f is all right um i wouldn't have

01:02:12.600 had the f word in there but a fantastic question who's all along the answer of course being uh he

01:02:17.440 is no god at all but exactly um but but the fact that you would go to jail for 18 months for that

01:02:21.880 and i think we're these are two separate accounts that we're both referencing another one facebook

01:02:25.540 one yeah 20 months insane insane and so sorry all i was gonna say is if you don't want a christian

01:02:33.040 society this is what you get and and i don't know about you but but i want high high trust society

01:02:38.320 i i want a people that share a space that share a religion and um i i think greg bonson he asked

01:02:46.720 in a in a sermon how many times can a man see what's in front of his face and still pretend

01:02:51.960 not to know the answer yeah how many times can you see and hear about these horrific stories

01:02:57.580 not even to men and women that are old mature that have lived life to children to children and

01:03:03.120 to teenagers death and other terrible things done to them how many times can you see this happen

01:03:07.940 and not think, we need some borders and we need strong rule of law.

01:03:13.320 And if you put your head in the sand, no, no, no, we must welcome all.

01:03:16.260 I just saw today an LCMS, so this would be the Lutheran Church, Missouri Synod,

01:03:21.060 a Lutheran pastor saying, well, having kids to grow the church,

01:03:24.880 eh, take it or leave it, they don't all stay.

01:03:26.660 But immigration is the real way that the Great Commission comes to us. 0.98

01:03:31.080 How many times can you see this happen? 0.99

01:03:33.840 It's a lack of love for your people in many ways.

01:03:36.820 to welcome their destruction, to do nothing about it,

01:03:40.240 to then resist the means, law and gospel,

01:03:42.840 that could actually rectify it.

01:03:45.540 I don't know that I have words for that level of

01:03:48.020 just laying down and taking it.

01:03:51.040 It's the benefit versus risk.

01:03:55.380 Risk-benefit analysis, cost-benefit analysis.

01:03:58.940 So the cost is, you're saying,

01:04:03.420 how long can it be right in front of your eyes? 0.96

01:04:05.680 You know, like, you know, your neighbor's children, your native neighbor, like you're a Brit and has lived there for, you know, 10 generations and a fellow, you know, Brit, 10 generations, you know, heritage, you know, Great Britain, their little girl gets raped and stabbed, right? 0.61

01:04:24.000 And so, and it's right there in front of you.

01:04:26.080 But the question is cost-benefit.

01:04:28.260 so um it wasn't your little girl and uh and you know that it could be next time it could be but

01:04:34.620 you're you're just you're you're weighing the risks right so you're saying yeah it could be

01:04:38.960 but still statistically it's uh it's an unlikelihood but what is is not unlikely but but

01:04:43.740 rather a guarantee is that if i speak out against this um even if i speak out against it charitably 0.84

01:04:49.440 on facebook i can go to jail yeah like the reason so i don't think it's just stupidity and i don't 0.98

01:04:54.860 even think that it's apathy i think that um the rulers are so sinister and wicked uh that they 0.97

01:05:01.200 have made it they basically said like if um if you don't speak out uh rape and pillaging from the

01:05:08.300 third world on your doorstep will continue um but it might just be your neighbor and your family 0.99

01:05:13.800 might be okay but if you do speak out um we'll rape and pillage you by putting you in jail and 0.97

01:05:20.040 taking everything you have uh so it's really just a cost-benefit analysis um if i don't say anything 0.99

01:05:25.960 then uh my daughter might get raped by a somalian if i do say something um then my daughter will 0.87

01:05:32.760 grow up without a father because the prime minister of great britain will put me in jail 0.97

01:05:36.660 yeah that's that's your choice i know those are strong words but we just need to say it like it

01:05:41.980 is that's the choice and that is i think why still a lot of people it's right there in front

01:05:46.680 in their face and has been for decades and you're quiet and and unchecked that's coming here in 10

01:05:51.120 years you're going to face the same dynamic if things don't change um i feel like we're going

01:05:55.780 to be up against exactly that the the department of justice showing up your doorstep up sir that

01:06:01.820 facebook post was a little racist and we're going to take you here and you're going to have to do

01:06:06.220 some re-education you spoke out against this you didn't want so and so freed you you wanted this

01:06:11.840 that or the other i i don't feel like we're that far away it would have been unthinkable i'm sure

01:06:15.780 in great britain 2015 we're not gonna be arrested for facebook posts they're not gonna take our

01:06:19.520 knives away right we're not gonna have literally i saw i think it was in ireland it was a small

01:06:23.880 town of 200 people or i think it was about 100 people and they dropped off about 150 migrants

01:06:29.300 at a hotel there and said they will be housed here do not stop it don't say anything against

01:06:33.540 it or we'll arrest you again 10 years ago you wouldn't they would never the government wouldn't

01:06:38.040 show up and do that oh yeah they will and it could happen here too um all right so what final

01:06:44.660 points do you want to make and then uh we'll go to our last commercial and get to questions but

01:06:48.980 what what final things on our topic today do you feel like maybe we left on said um

01:06:54.380 we were talking about a little bit the gospel's primary mission is not um ethnic reconciliation

01:06:59.640 but that is an effect of it that the gospel reconciles man to god first and foremost that's

01:07:04.480 to reconcile sinful man to a holy god absolutely because the gospel the word literally in greek

01:07:10.020 means good news. It is the good news of the life, death, resurrection of Jesus. Jesus reconciles us

01:07:15.020 to God primarily, but individuals, so a husband and wife, also through the work of the gospel,

01:07:19.860 help are reconciled to one another, have a home rightly ordered. So it is the gospel. It can help

01:07:24.820 create ethnic unity, but also the law does. The law helps us. It restrains evil in one of its

01:07:30.720 functions. That can also create a commodious, harmonious society for people to share. So it's

01:07:37.160 not just gospel, because you'll hear ministers do this. They'll get up and they'll talk about

01:07:40.460 the work of the gospel, ethnic unity, and all these things. And it does, at some level, help

01:07:44.560 reconcile people, but also what law does, where evil is restrained, where people know what's

01:07:49.760 expected of them. There's a societal, cultural expectation that's enforced, some of it explicitly

01:07:54.820 in law, but then some of it's getting into the hearts of people where they say, there's nothing

01:07:58.660 against this, but you still can't do that. Yeah, one thing that helps my kids get along really well

01:08:03.320 um is the fact that uh that they know that their dad will discipline them if they don't get along

01:08:10.160 yeah right like that that really helps you know so like we have you know i mean there's still

01:08:15.220 fights and factions in my home because i have a six-year-old and a four-year-old and a three-year-old

01:08:19.500 and one-year-old and another on the way you know so like i've got little little kids um and little

01:08:25.000 kids uh sometimes they're not perfectly behaved you know but um but by and large with children

01:08:31.400 as young as mine are um they they do really well and and are growing in consideration of one another

01:08:38.040 and preferring one another and sharing and all these kinds of things um but they're doing that

01:08:42.460 not just because of the gospel um they're doing that primarily because of the law they're doing

01:08:48.200 that because exactly because because by god's grace and i don't do this perfectly because i

01:08:53.920 too am a sinner but by god's grace their mother and i are doing our best to legislate as parents

01:09:00.440 in our household god's law accurately and fairly for our children in our home and um and i think

01:09:07.880 you know for our oldest um i think that she's showing the the most signs of maturity and

01:09:12.840 preference of others and selflessness and all these kinds of virtues and fruit of the spirit

01:09:16.800 because uh she's got law in the form of mom and dad's discipline but she also i believe has gospel

01:09:24.900 I do believe God alone sees the heart, but her mother and I, we believe that she is regenerate,

01:09:31.000 that she belongs to Christ. I don't think that all my children are regenerate. I believe that

01:09:35.540 all my children are elect. I do believe that. And I believe that you can have that view,

01:09:40.460 even as a Baptist, that we can affirm covenant succession. But I don't believe that they're all 0.87

01:09:44.860 regenerate from the womb. So the majority of my children, as far as I can tell, God alone sees the

01:09:49.860 heart. I look at the outward appearance and measuring fruit and those kinds of things. But

01:09:52.800 as far as I can tell, doing my best as a father to exercise discernment, the majority of my

01:09:57.640 children are unregenerate. In other words, the majority of my children, the gospel has not yet

01:10:03.020 changed their hearts. And yet they're still growing and improving in their outward behavior.

01:10:09.220 Their heart is still totally depraved and needs the gospel of Jesus Christ. But in their outward

01:10:12.560 behavior, there is day by day great improvement. Because you know what? The law of God revives the

01:10:19.280 soul. I don't like that. I don't like that. I don't like that interpretation. That's not

01:10:23.280 an interpretation. That is a literal quote from the Bible. It's so incredible. It says makes wise

01:10:28.080 the simple. You could take a simple person as little to offer society. Like a two-year-old.

01:10:32.260 Like a two-year-old. The law of God that sets them straight. So we'll go to our final commercial

01:10:37.820 break. I think we had a couple of questions. We'll look for them. Leave any more in the comments and

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01:13:16.760 All right, we're back.

01:13:18.060 Here's a question that I thought was good.

01:13:19.700 I'm going to have Nathan, our assistant, scroll up to it.

01:13:22.540 Here it is.

01:13:22.880 It's from Corey.

01:13:24.000 He says, does your congregation pretty much align with your views, Pastor Joel, or is

01:13:28.580 there some conflict over certain issues?

01:13:31.720 I know that that doesn't exactly pertain to our topic today, but it is something, a

01:13:36.980 common question that i receive from time to time because anybody who watches our show right if

01:13:41.380 you're not a member in our church and wes i'll let you speak to this too because you you would have

01:13:44.760 you know an insider point of view as a member of our church but anybody who's not and on the

01:13:49.000 outside looking in and they're just maybe watching the sermons online or watching you know the live

01:13:52.640 stream or the friday special you know or theology apply the interview that i do on mondays they're

01:13:57.080 watching the podcast they're on the outside looking in and they know that um joel webin uh

01:14:03.440 is um you know he's he's nothing if not opinionated right he has you know he has strong

01:14:09.780 views right he holds strong views he has convictions and so it might surprise the listener

01:14:14.120 i appreciate the question coy uh to know that uh we actually have a fairly wide array and i would

01:14:19.840 argue wider than i wish it was but uh but we're not going to just bludgeon people over the head

01:14:24.240 we're going to take time and shape people over time uh through properly dividing the the word

01:14:30.300 of God, teaching the word of God and shaping, discipling people. But our church, I think a big

01:14:34.660 part of it is just the context of our church in terms of the timing that it was planted. We planted

01:14:39.860 our church in my living room with 12 adults, including my wife and I. It was like 20 people,

01:14:46.140 including kids. We did it in our living room, putting out our dining room chairs and using our

01:14:51.020 couches and kids sitting on the floor. It was in the living room of our home. And we started the

01:14:55.500 first sunday which happened to be an easter sunday of april 2021 april 2021 and so uh and we had just

01:15:02.880 a couple months prior you know um moved uh from california to texas which for me for the record

01:15:08.600 was actually not going somewhere where i was not native uh but actually coming home texas is where

01:15:14.080 i was born and raised um it was the choice to go to california that was actually the outlier and so

01:15:19.340 so all that being said you were still on the heels of covet yeah and texas did better than

01:15:24.440 some states, but not great. Greg Abbott was pretty much just, he didn't really have any

01:15:30.960 courage or spine. He just, whatever Ron DeSantis would do, he would just mimic that a few months

01:15:35.720 later. And so Texas got rocked, not as much as California, but it got rocked by COVID as all

01:15:43.220 the nation did. And then of course you had the summer of love and mostly peaceful riots burning

01:15:49.040 down half the country and so uh so i was just you know on those two things among other things but i

01:15:54.520 was outspoken about those two things um and we you know so i'm just preaching to my friends my wife

01:16:00.280 and kids and some of our close friends who moved with us you know from california in the church

01:16:04.040 that i pastored there and uh but we were recording the sermons and putting them online and people

01:16:08.080 are watching it and uh and it took off because they saw you know strong stances on covid and

01:16:14.360 and wokeness yep strong stance against you know the branch covidians and wokeology and so uh but

01:16:22.100 then my point is what does that get you because there's a ton of people who hate wokeness and

01:16:25.940 hated the the covid tyranny but are not necessarily 1689 second london confession you know uh reformed

01:16:33.280 baptist post-millennial like and to be honest a lot of the people that we got initially and still

01:16:38.780 to this day continue to get um we're staunch you know dispensational pre-mill guys right so they're

01:16:44.700 like they're like we see the writing on the wall like we're with you joel uh no vaccines uh no mask

01:16:50.740 uh stand up to covid tyranny and uh wokeness is a virus and also um this is these are the signs

01:16:58.360 the end times are upon us and jesus is coming back you know to rapture the church but you know

01:17:02.800 i'm different than all those you know all those uh normies out there and i'm like oh you're different

01:17:07.700 like you're you're post-millennial you know or you're you're reformed all-millennial like no

01:17:11.720 i'm different i'm a post-trib uh you know i'm a mid-ax dispensational exactly so like with like

01:17:18.920 that was most of the church initially um so to answer your question cory uh eschatology most of

01:17:25.000 the church uh was not post-millennial at this point i would say over half of the church is

01:17:28.920 post-millennial because they've been shaped over time through the preaching and discipleship um and

01:17:34.140 and then also just on their own reading and studying the word of god for themselves and

01:17:37.540 coming to that conclusion but initially a lot of the people who really took a stand were the salt

01:17:44.340 of the earth and who's the salt of the earth dispensationalists honestly like let's just be

01:17:50.400 honest i hate i despise dispensationalism but dispensationalists the people are some of the

01:17:57.660 the sweetest people on on the planet like i remember doug wilson said you know like stephen

01:18:03.240 wolf when he had you know his his infamous tweet you know a year ago whenever it was that uh why

01:18:07.520 white evangelicals are the lone bulwark, you know, against the moral insanity of America.

01:18:11.620 And he's right. He was making a statistical argument, not each and every individual, 0.74

01:18:15.740 but in a group dynamic in general, white evangelicals are the most conservative

01:18:20.020 voters in the nation. And by that metric, you know, therefore, they are the main dam

01:18:28.120 that is holding back the floodgates of moral insanity. So Stephen Wolfe, I don't think he

01:18:32.440 did anything wrong. I think that that was fine. But Doug Wilson said, you know, well,

01:18:36.860 if we're going to say that then it's also fair you know steven wolf i would i would ask you

01:18:40.600 request that you say another set of 11 words that um dispensational pre-millennials um are the lone

01:18:47.400 bulwark um and now i don't know why doug was trying to get steven to say that to me it doesn't

01:18:52.020 make any sense but uh that's not the point the point is steven wolf was right about white

01:18:56.260 evangelicals but so was doug wilson and so anyways all that being said uh dispensationalism i despise

01:19:02.160 because i think it's a bad doctrine it's led to endless wars in the middle east and you know

01:19:05.920 and zionism and all these different things that i i think yeah i despise because i think the lord

01:19:10.020 jesus despises but uh aside from that dispensationalist the actual people um they have

01:19:16.500 stood up against lgbt and they stood up against covet a lot of like i'd like to sit here and say

01:19:21.400 it was all the reformed guys who have a historical grammatical literal and also typological

01:19:27.300 christological typo you know typology you know hermeneutic of the word of god and can track their

01:19:32.720 you know theological traditions back to calvin and luther and zwingli they their theology was

01:19:39.800 tested and tried and it proved through its fruit to be the true doctrines because in 2020 it was

01:19:45.820 the reformed that took a stand against covet nope i wish that was the case that guys like let's just

01:19:52.400 be honest that was not the case calvary chapel kicked most presbyterians butts in terms of

01:19:59.220 Courage, spying, and just raw instinct of knowing the times.

01:20:03.840 Yeah.

01:20:04.260 Calvary Chapel in Southern California.

01:20:06.960 Jack Hibbs did way better than R. Scott Clark.

01:20:09.840 Yeah.

01:20:10.600 Which that one actually isn't shocking because it's R. Scott Clark.

01:20:12.840 Mark Dever.

01:20:13.320 1689.

01:20:14.300 Yep, better than Mark Dever.

01:20:15.240 They were closed.

01:20:15.940 Yep, exactly.

01:20:16.980 So the point is because we planted our church in that context,

01:20:23.060 that was the time, April 2021,

01:20:25.380 on the heels of COVID and the heels of wokeness,

01:20:28.500 and that's kind of where we kind of that was our our rise to stardom we're not stars you know we

01:20:32.800 got we're we're little little fish you know like but we've got a youtube channel with a hundred

01:20:38.500 thousand people and you know and plenty of other people have a million so we're not a big deal by

01:20:43.880 any stretch but the little bit of accolades that we did gain uh came from taking a stand on those

01:20:49.840 issues at in a timely manner uh when when they were that was what everybody was wrestling with

01:20:55.480 what do we do do we close our churches do i do i get the 14th booster do i you know should i wear

01:21:00.160 three masks in the shower alone by myself you know like that that was you know um it uh should uh 0.93

01:21:06.520 should i give black people all of my stuff am i terrible for being white you know like that like

01:21:10.420 that's what was going on yep and uh we took a stand but the reality is my point is that stand 0.89

01:21:15.940 appealed it did not just appeal to people who have theology like mine it appealed to pre-mill guys

01:21:21.320 dispensational guys we have a ton still to this day we still have maybe not a ton but i'd say we

01:21:27.020 have uh at least a dozen maybe two dozen arminians yep in the church um so most people are calvinist

01:21:33.720 and and reformed in their soteriology um but i'd say it's probably 80 like i'd say 70 percent is

01:21:39.580 post-millennial at this point in the beginning it was less than 50 um i'd say 80 85 percent are

01:21:45.040 reformed in their soteriology but there's a good you know 12 to 25 people adults that are arminian

01:21:51.300 and uh and they know and it's and i'm not being shy about that ever and so they know exactly what

01:21:57.180 i believe but they're willing to be there also here's another one uh baptism we have a ton of

01:22:01.920 people this one i can't say ton uh who are of the persuasion of pedo-baptism that is their um that's

01:22:08.380 their position and uh but they love our church and part of the reason they don't go to a presbyterian

01:22:13.520 church is because the opc church down the road and the pca church down the road uh closed for 15

01:22:18.360 months during covid you know and uh and then if they did open up uh they had two services and in

01:22:24.900 one of the services it was you know masks are optional but the other one they're required

01:22:28.880 and uh and they wouldn't even sing and uh the pastor his wife and their kids uh which service

01:22:34.700 do you think they went to the non-singing we won't obey ephesians colossians when it says when

01:22:39.540 we gather to address one another with songs i was on an opc website i was looking for someone who

01:22:44.280 came from it we're gonna go to that service in 2024 still we're advertising masks and covid

01:22:48.980 requirements like as in two weeks ago right a current church obc church still meeting right so

01:22:53.740 i have i have presbyterians in my church why because presbyterians uh they think that i'm

01:22:58.940 wrong about baptism they're kind and charitable and respectful towards me as a pastor holding

01:23:02.880 the view that i do but in the you know but that is their position they think uh joel's wrong about

01:23:07.060 baptism but he's the most covenantally minded baptist we've ever met and so we appreciate that

01:23:12.340 But we would rather go to the Baptist church that knows what time it is than the Presbyterian church that is sitting in the garage revving the 12-cylinder engine, the V12 engine of all the great riches and theological treasure of Voss and Gahardus Voss and all these Reformed treasures.

01:23:39.120 But they never take the car out of the garage and never drive it.

01:23:43.140 And so Joel's over here with his little six-cylinder Honda Civic,

01:23:48.880 but he's souped it up as much as you possibly could.

01:23:51.660 And he's out here drag racing.

01:23:54.080 He's doing jumps. 1.00

01:23:54.900 Yeah, and doing jumps with his little Baptist Honda Civic. 0.98

01:23:59.200 And the Presbyterians, what's the point in being a titan of intellect and theology 1.00

01:24:04.500 if at the end of the day, you're a freaking coward? 1.00

01:24:07.900 You are. 1.00

01:24:09.120 And that's not all Presbyterians, but it's a lot. 0.98

01:24:13.120 Sadly, it's a lot. 0.67

01:24:14.860 And so to answer the question, good question, Corey,

01:24:17.740 the answer is that we have a vast array of people of different positions.

01:24:22.460 And the way that I preach, and this is the last thing I'll say,

01:24:25.260 the way that I preach is different than the policies that we hold

01:24:28.620 in terms of for unity and membership in our church.

01:24:32.220 When I preach, it's like, well, man, for a guy who has people

01:24:35.220 of all these different positions, that actually surprises me

01:24:38.040 because you speak so matter-of-factly you don't speak uh you don't you just don't sound that

01:24:43.300 charitable when you're speaking on your podcast or when you're preaching you make it sound like

01:24:47.760 it's you know this is the only way it can be and blah blah blah and this is why that that too comes

01:24:51.900 from a conviction theological conviction peter says in his epistle that there are multiple different

01:24:56.880 gifts and he talks about the one who speaks and he's referring to a gift of teaching and oration

01:25:01.840 the one who teaches the word of god he says let the one who speaks speak as though he's speaking

01:25:06.100 the very oracles of god in other words uh when a minister of the gospel gets into the pulpit and

01:25:12.520 begins to preach he should preach uh from the standpoint not of i think or maybe or perhaps

01:25:20.260 but thus saith the word of god yeah and so when i speak um i the reason i speak a matter of factly

01:25:27.340 is not because that's my personality because if you talk to me in any other setting if i'm not

01:25:31.400 sitting behind this table in a podcast or behind the pulpit in a sermon you know this west because

01:25:35.680 with friends in any other context i'm just like hey you know like all right let's you know let's

01:25:40.380 have a whiskey let's go watch a movie or like yeah i've got a an opinion on this or an opinion on

01:25:45.140 that like i'm a lot more laid back yeah um but the reason i'm not in the pulpit isn't because it's my 0.66

01:25:50.400 innate personality to be so sure of myself and that really i'm just a narcissist and arrogant

01:25:55.220 uh no i actually kind of have to uh intentionally work myself to be that way um and i do it because

01:26:00.720 i'm trying to be obedient yeah i believe that the word of god actually commands the preacher

01:26:05.760 to preach as though he is heralding the oracles of god and not as though he is softly and quietly

01:26:12.160 sharing his opinion so so that's why i preach that way but in terms of pastorally outside of

01:26:18.600 the pulpit the way that i shepherd sheep and the and our policies and requirements for membership

01:26:23.460 are actually um if anything maybe more accommodating than they should be and allows for

01:26:28.940 all different kinds of theological persuasions to feel at home and loved in our church.

01:26:33.560 Yeah. I would add, so that's theological. I'm not sure if maybe Corey's question related to

01:26:37.720 theological or political. So theological, we have somewhat of our diversity, and it's not our

01:26:42.160 strength. It's not like, oh yeah, we have Baptists, Presbyterians. We have some theological diversity,

01:26:47.420 but I would say politically and socially, we have little. As in, every single person would be in

01:26:51.200 lockstep against the left. We will not have a single Kamala Harris voter anywhere in our church.

01:26:56.200 We have some that wouldn't vote for Trump, but we will not have a diversity of political thought, like, eh, the left, not so bad.

01:27:02.580 So, a bit of a diversity theologically, but politically, I would say the church is pretty strongly aligned.

01:27:07.460 The roles of men and women, the importance of children, the need for a Christian nation.

01:27:13.260 On those, I would say, I don't know, maybe you could say differently, I think of the members, we would all be right there in lockstep.

01:27:20.240 Yeah, we would want to see a Christian nation again.

01:27:22.600 We would want to see Christian laws.

01:27:23.760 We would want to see homosexuality banned again, things like that. 0.72

01:27:27.940 I'll do a drive-by, just two minutes on a question, 0.99

01:27:30.360 then there was some for you, Joel.

01:27:31.260 I don't know how long you want to go.

01:27:32.400 Okay.

01:27:32.960 Can you address refugees?

01:27:34.220 I've heard a lot about immigration, but what about the refugees?

01:27:36.860 This is Jonathan Johnson.

01:27:38.460 Yep, this is just a question I've thought of.

01:27:41.240 There are legitimate refugees, I think, of the apartheid in Africa. 0.94

01:27:45.660 Imagine you're a white farmer, and they're literally coming to take your farm. 1.00

01:27:50.240 to butcher you. The stories of what we've done there are just absolutely terrible, again, 0.93

01:27:53.720 to white families, to children. You fleeing is legitimate, and a nation can, although it does 0.99

01:27:58.980 not have to, accept refugees. But one word of caution on that, even if you would be doing a 1.00

01:28:04.580 good thing, if it comes at the risk and the detriment of your own people, and you perceive 0.99

01:28:08.840 that there could be a possibility, I think a nation has the right, a Christian nation, to say,

01:28:12.720 we understand you're in a tough circumstance. We can't, however, help because of the risk it

01:28:17.360 would introduce. And a good example of this was in World War I, the island of Sicily off,

01:28:21.440 it's actually World War II in the Civil War, island of Italy, Sicily, the U.S. removed their

01:28:28.720 restriction, uncapped immigration from there on the refugee status. There was war going on,

01:28:33.480 people wanted to leave the region and the island, so they let them in. And that's actually what 1.00

01:28:36.920 precipitated the mob crisis that gripped the nation for the next three decades and led to 0.55

01:28:41.520 the creation of the FBI, was unchecked immigration. And then these groups of subversive actors came in

01:28:47.120 and began establishing within the ports of New York.

01:28:49.440 You can read, it's Bill O'Reilly Killing the Mob.

01:28:51.980 Fascinating book.

01:28:53.040 But it was all precipitated by this group that claimed,

01:28:55.940 we're just fleeing this war, we just need shelter.

01:28:59.220 And then they came in, set up shop,

01:29:00.740 and got to work doing things that really,

01:29:03.360 I mean, our nation was in many ways crippled

01:29:05.180 because they would commit a crime,

01:29:06.800 but they would cross state lines,

01:29:08.080 they couldn't track them.

01:29:09.300 So when something like that is a dynamic,

01:29:11.360 I don't know, we might be bringing in,

01:29:13.060 yes, valid refugees,

01:29:14.140 but also military-aged males 1.00

01:29:16.100 that are going to come in and do terrible things to our nation,

01:29:18.700 I think a nation can say, we're sorry.

01:29:21.660 We're just not going to allow you.

01:29:22.900 Or if they have the resources and they can vet,

01:29:25.020 it is also acceptable, I would say, to say,

01:29:27.040 we're going to welcome in on a limited basis, on a limited number,

01:29:30.320 some of you legitimately fleeing, especially religious persecution.

01:29:33.760 I would say a Christian nation can have even above and beyond

01:29:35.720 to say you're a Christian fleeing Islamic persecution.

01:29:38.760 That's a valid category, but it's not required for us to take the refugee 0.66

01:29:42.580 if it would do detriment to our own people and to our own family.

01:29:46.100 well said um let's do this uh so euclid has uh some great points that he made but i want to read

01:29:52.680 from striker i did euclid a couple weeks ago and euclid i think this striker is getting a similar

01:29:58.040 question that you do too um striker and euclid are very concerned about my uh my um my compassion

01:30:06.920 towards steven wolf your friendly north carolina exactly yeah so uh striker says this a question

01:30:12.320 for Joel. Do you understand that even Wolfe, Stephen Wolfe, has stated his natural law position

01:30:18.420 is incompatible with theonomy? Why specifically do you think that you can ride the fence between

01:30:23.440 the two? So this gets, you know, it's Thomism versus, you know, it's Thomas Aquinas versus

01:30:30.740 Van Til. Part of it is their epistemology, how they arrive at the truths that they arrive at,

01:30:37.740 how we can know what we know. Um, but one thing I said this a couple of weeks ago, but maybe it

01:30:42.620 bears repeating. Um, it's probably important for people to know. And I, and I've been consistent

01:30:46.620 with this, uh, believe it or not. Uh, I, so I have been a classical theist, um, for, uh, at least I

01:30:53.520 think six years now came into those convictions. It was either 2017 or 2018. Um, I remember having,

01:31:00.400 you know, some staunch arguments with, uh, my elders at the time. And we were, you know,

01:31:03.820 because we were all still kind of trying to figure out our theology of god um you know our

01:31:08.060 theology proper and uh and so you know god is the most uh most pure spirit without body parts and

01:31:13.400 passions um uh the impassibility you know so like even like sam renahan and uh some of the the

01:31:18.880 reformed baptist guys from arpka um who was it dolezal who wrote all that is games yeah there's

01:31:25.000 some you know some divine simplicity right so that god without parts philosophical theology

01:31:29.320 um and uh and then uh renahan did you know dole is always handling the divine simplicity

01:31:35.840 god without parts and and renahan was uh handling uh god without passions and at at root you know

01:31:41.880 passions is you know the divine cannot suffer right the latin you know so he you know god

01:31:46.200 doesn't die god doesn't suffer those kinds of things and making sense of that without getting

01:31:50.480 into the nestorian heresy um you know but uh but still making sense of the two natures in you know

01:31:55.480 the hypostatic union of one person of uh the son uh the second member of the trinity uh god the son 0.62

01:32:01.520 and that uh that it's true to say that jesus died that's a perfectly theologically true statement

01:32:05.840 and it's also true to say that god has never died and it's also true to say that jesus is god

01:32:10.780 and always has been and there was never a single moment that he ceased being god that he paused

01:32:15.940 being god so um and i don't have time to get into all that but so in that sense uh everybody can

01:32:20.980 affirm God is without passions in that sense, if you're orthodox and not a heretic. But I do think

01:32:26.860 that Sam Renahan and the Reformers, I think most of the Reformers would adhere to this, that God

01:32:32.340 without passions isn't just that he doesn't suffer, but that when the Bible speaks of God,

01:32:36.800 in terms of theology of God, understanding him, theology proper, it speaks underneath the banner

01:32:41.220 of analogy. Under the banner of analogy, we have two primary subcategories. We have anthropomorphic

01:32:46.060 language and anthropopathic language. Anthropomorphic language is speaking of God in

01:32:50.320 physical terms while recognizing, John chapter 4, God is spirit. And those who worship him must

01:32:55.180 worship him in spirit and truth. It is true that the second member of the Trinity has taken on

01:32:59.040 flesh and he is forever now the God-man. He has a body, a now glorified body, where he's seated at

01:33:03.840 the right hand of God the Father Almighty. But the Father and the Spirit have always, and the Son

01:33:07.940 previously before the Incarnation always, did not have a body. He's the most pure spirit without

01:33:12.800 body, parts, and passions. And so, God without body and without parts, divine simplicity,

01:33:18.580 in philosophical terms, doesn't mean God's simple and that we're complex, speaking, you know,

01:33:23.400 trying to, you know, insinuate that God's inferior. Of course, that's not true. But simple

01:33:27.900 in philosophical terms, meaning that God is not divisible. You know, even the, you know,

01:33:32.680 the Reformers and the Puritans, especially, when they would speak of the attributes of God,

01:33:36.420 they preferred to use the word the perfections. And attributes or perfections of God isn't 0.76

01:33:41.080 something that god possesses uh it's not that god has attributes or that he has these perfections

01:33:46.460 but that he is his perfections and that he's not the uh the comprise um or the uh the sum of all

01:33:54.340 it's not uh you know like the captain planet thing you know heart uh winds you know it's not uh you

01:34:00.700 know justice you know equals captain god you know it's that's not the way it works um no uh if you

01:34:06.780 If you were to separate or somehow detract merely one of the attributes or perfections of God, then the whole thing falls apart.

01:34:14.520 He would no longer be God.

01:34:15.520 And so, all that is in God is God.

01:34:18.320 So, when the Bible says, you know, because that's some of the lousy theological arguments that people make.

01:34:22.540 They say, God is love, you know.

01:34:24.000 And so, therefore, you know, like, yeah, God is just.

01:34:26.540 And yeah, God, you know, he has judgment.

01:34:28.540 And, you know, he has these other things.

01:34:30.400 But, you know, that one attribute, namely love, trumps all the other ones.

01:34:35.140 And so, we can be light on sin.

01:34:36.460 and how do you arrive there? Well, God has these other things, but he is. That's an ontological

01:34:42.040 argument of what God is. His very essence is love. Well, one, that's just a bad hermeneutic of reading

01:34:47.800 the scripture. Two, even by your bad hermeneutic, using that argumentation, well, if God is love,

01:34:53.760 the Bible doesn't just say he has holiness, but he is holy, holy, holy. The Bible never says that

01:34:59.080 God is love, love, love. So God is then, therefore, by your own logic, three times holier than he is

01:35:03.600 loving. And so, my point is, you know, you just shouldn't do it that way at all. Instead, all the

01:35:08.660 attributes of God are not things that He possesses or has, but God is. And so, when the Bible says

01:35:14.540 God is love, that is a phenomenal verse of the Bible and a wonderful thing that 1 John tells us.

01:35:18.860 But it's just as theologically true to say God is justice, God is love, God is mercy, God is,

01:35:24.820 you know, all these things, God is truth, God is, you know. And so, all that God is, God is. All that

01:35:30.060 is in God is God. So that's divine simplicity. And then without passions, that's anthropopathic

01:35:35.420 language. So when the Bible speaks of physical terms of God, his eyes roam to and fro, his right

01:35:40.360 arm is mighty to save, it's analogous language. It's saying, it's not a lie. It's saying something

01:35:45.360 true about God, but in a way that human beings can understand. It's true, but it's not literally

01:35:50.240 true or physically true. So too with anthropopathic language. The Holy Spirit is grieved, right?

01:35:55.860 That's emotional language, but God does not emote in the literal sense.

01:36:00.240 God was, his wrath was kindled against Israel, you know, because of this or because of that.

01:36:06.760 That's emotional language, but it's meant to be emotional language interpreted underneath

01:36:12.980 the banner of analogy, it's anthropopathic language.

01:36:15.700 It's saying something true about the character and nature of God, but not literally true

01:36:19.540 because God does not emote.

01:36:20.880 God is not fluctuating on a dime, turning back and forth this minute and then back the next

01:36:26.740 in his emotional state. God is not a man that he should change his mind. Behold, I am the Lord,

01:36:32.780 I changeth not, so that you, the sons of Jacob, are not consumed. God knows the very end from

01:36:38.220 the beginning because he ordained it to come about. And so, God is not fluctuating and changing. He

01:36:43.500 does not change, and that includes a state of mind. That includes even his emotional state.

01:36:48.160 god does not change so here's my point striker and euclid uh my point is um that's tomism now

01:36:54.700 i'm not saying that's all of tomism tomism goes further than that but that's tomism as it pertains

01:36:58.720 to the doctrine of god that is uh tomism theology proper that is classical uh theism and i have been

01:37:05.580 a classical theist for six years so i've been you know charitable in the way that i engage with

01:37:11.180 others and very much in the theonomic general you know equity theonomy camp uh so i love moscow and

01:37:17.440 I love Doug Wilson, I love James White, you know, and I love these guys, but I have disagreed,

01:37:22.140 and you've probably never heard me say it publicly, but I'll say it today, I have disagreed

01:37:25.000 with Doug Wilson, who I love and respect, and James White, who I love and respect.

01:37:28.180 I have disagreed with these great men who are better men than me, on the whole, I've

01:37:32.400 disagreed with them about doctrine of God for at least the last six years.

01:37:36.720 And Owen Strand, he, I feel, far less of an obligation to be charitable towards, so I'll

01:37:42.100 just frankly, you know, come out and say it.

01:37:44.020 his doctrine of God, his theology proper, is borderline heresy, if not full-blown. It's just

01:37:51.520 atrocious. And so, yes, I am a general equity theonomist, and I love Van Til, and I appreciate

01:37:57.760 95% of Rush Stuney. I think he's the best of the Reconstructionists, even better than Bonson,

01:38:02.400 although I also appreciate Bonson. But I have been swimming in the Thomistic waters, at least 0.98

01:38:09.320 in my theology proper for quite a while. And so, no, I don't think that Van Til and Aquinas are

01:38:18.420 compatible in every way. I wouldn't make that point. They're not. They're not. But I think that

01:38:25.200 the battle royale that will eventually need to be held and hosted—I'd love to host it—the 0.70

01:38:32.700 battle royale, you know, that will eventually need to be hosted between the Thomists and the

01:38:37.040 antillions um in terms of epistemology uh because it's not really so much you know

01:38:43.100 soteriology we're holding to the you know we we're all calvinist guys um and uh but but in

01:38:49.720 terms of epistemology and and then especially as it applies to the law of god and how it's applied

01:38:55.580 you know all of christ for all of life and these kinds of things uh that you know to whether it's 0.93

01:38:59.780 no nobody's you know nobody in our camp is a uh r2k you know uh radical uh two kingdom guy but

01:39:06.060 But whether it's classical two kingdoms or whether it's more of a Kuyperian view, those things will need to be settled eventually.

01:39:15.040 I just do not think that that is—I don't think that that's the moment that we're in right now.

01:39:21.660 I do not think that that is the greatest need of our current cultural, political, and even theological moment.

01:39:28.640 I think that we have been fractured enough already.

01:39:31.040 um i think steven wolf uh needs to cut it out from time to time and play nice with the theonomist 0.90

01:39:38.580 and stop yeah and stop you know being a jerk towards us because sometimes and i've told him 0.57

01:39:43.680 that offline you know there have been times where i'm like dude come on man like i i know i know you 0.70

01:39:47.520 don't really have much respect for theonomist and i understand um you know because 90 of them today

01:39:54.380 are uh theonomy i don't think it has to be this way by necessity but theonomy has become sadly

01:40:00.980 synonymous with libertarianism from a political standpoint, and boomerism from a cultural

01:40:06.040 standpoint. What does it mean to be a theonomist? It means to be a libertarian boomer. And boomer is

01:40:10.480 not, in the same way, you might say, blank is not a state of mind. It's not this, it's a state

01:40:17.100 of mind. Boomer is not an age, it's a state of mind. You can be a 30-year-old boomer. And I've

01:40:22.680 met plenty of them. And so sadly, right now, that is how theonomy keeps presenting itself. I don't

01:40:27.900 think it's supposed to be or it has to be uh but a lot of theonomy currently is just um it's just

01:40:33.700 the boomer post-war sentiment uh with you know uh kind of some uh libertarian political structure

01:40:42.400 that uh that's going to counter signal uh child tax credits right you know and so uh so long is

01:40:48.860 is that's uh how theonomists continue to present themselves then steven wolf you know i still

01:40:53.740 think steven wolf should exercise a little bit more charity but he's going to continue to

01:40:57.820 he's going to eat that for lunch he's going to see that on twitter and and slap it down

01:41:03.180 very easily because it's it's laughable you know it's very easy to slap down so um but i just don't

01:41:09.040 think that that's the war that we need so i i'd like to see steven wolf uh play nice and uh and

01:41:14.040 i'd also like to see the theonimus not be insufferable and um and then yeah we can have

01:41:18.180 the battle royale between uh you know the tomist and the vantillians uh when the orcs aren't at 0.92

01:41:24.980 our front door uh trying to get inside to chop off our kids genitals yeah but right now you just

01:41:31.760 that that's where we are and and and yeah so i i just i think that's what i'm going to say you 0.52

01:41:37.840 would say on a long enough timeline there is an antithesis that is going to have to be reconciled

01:41:42.340 so it's not indefinitely baptists and presbyterians and the same elder board will never have problems

01:41:47.080 but for the moment right now there's compatibility because you're working towards the same overarching

01:41:51.680 goals is that a good summary of your position because the question was how do you not is isn't

01:41:56.120 there an antithesis here you're saying you're straddling the line but these two seem mutually

01:42:00.020 exclusive how could one hold both it sounds like your answer is you recognize that at a future

01:42:05.420 point in time that will come to a head that moment is just not right now is that accurate yes that's

01:42:10.240 what i'm saying and i'll leave with this striker says unfortunately i think joel demonstrated he

01:42:13.800 doesn't really understand wolf or wolf's position i do i've read wolf's book and i've also talked to

01:42:17.880 personally um one of the so this is one of the things that the theonomists don't like all right

01:42:21.700 so i'll just say it out loud so so that we can go there um one of the things that wolf expresses

01:42:26.480 the christian prince the civil magistrate you know is appointed by god he's basically the vicar of

01:42:31.100 christ in the political realm and um almost a popish view but but outside of the church you

01:42:37.420 know not not within a ecumenical you know standpoint but a civil one and one of the

01:42:42.220 things that wolf does is um he believes that you know that christ is king of both of these two

01:42:46.820 kingdoms there's the common kingdom you know and then there's the sacred um you know that's only

01:42:51.080 the church and then that's which is common it's not that that belongs to satan that too belongs

01:42:54.800 to christ christ is ruling both of them but he rules by two separate agencies or means so he

01:42:59.380 rules the church you know predominantly through special revelation and with the state through

01:43:03.260 natural revelation and in comes natural law uh wolf has explicitly said he says it um in the case

01:43:08.840 for christian nationalism he's also you know said it in multiple lectures and panels and to me

01:43:12.520 personally on the phone uh for wolf uh natural law is synonymous with the deck law so when wolf

01:43:17.840 talks about natural law uh he means thou shalt have no other gods before me do not take you know

01:43:23.280 you know don't make any graven images don't take the lord's name in vain uh he means both tables

01:43:27.120 of the law and uh and wolf whether he's right or wrong uh he believes that that is calvin's position

01:43:32.000 that calvin uh when calvin references natural law that he's viewing that as synonymous with

01:43:37.140 the deck log and so you guys can disagree with that uh but that is wolf's position um so he

01:43:42.080 believes that the civil magistrate um is supposed to legislate god's law um but but that god is

01:43:47.280 speaking to him and and uh that uh you know the god above him is is natural law rather than all

01:43:53.740 66 books of the inspired text it's not special revelation but natural revelation but natural

01:43:57.980 revelation uh inso facto it gets you to the 10 commandments it gets you to the decalogue now

01:44:03.500 here's here's the problem that i think the theonomists have and and i'll be honest i'm

01:44:08.220 this is something that i'm wrestling with it's a problem that i have and yet at the same time

01:44:11.980 uh the alternative i have a problem with that too um wolf believes that there is inherently vested

01:44:18.120 in the civil magistrate uh power and authority wolf at some level right like so he appreciates

01:44:25.520 rutherford and you know and the puritans you know the reformers and all these guys uh but at some

01:44:30.000 level wolf kind of does deny lex rex that the the law is uh the highest authority and that there's

01:44:36.940 a law above the king and the king just follows the law um he would say that yes natural law is

01:44:41.520 above the king, and the king should submit to natural law. And submitting to natural law is

01:44:45.340 a submission to Christ, because Christ is a king of both kingdoms, and just ruling through two

01:44:49.600 different sets of agencies, not even two different sets of standards and morals, but the natural law

01:44:55.680 is synonymous with the Decalogue, but it's just another agency, another means. And so he would

01:45:00.240 say, in that sense, the civil magistrate does need to submit to King Jesus. So there is a law,

01:45:04.380 you know, there is a king above the king. There is a law above the king, Lex Rex. But it is

01:45:10.160 intentionally that God does this in the common kingdom, which includes the civil realm and the

01:45:14.080 Christian prince. He does this through a different set of agency that is far less specific. It's

01:45:18.560 natural law instead of special revelation, 66 books of the Bible. And he sees this as intentional

01:45:25.200 on God's part. And this is his design. It's good and holy and perfect and right. God does it with

01:45:29.540 intent on purpose. And it's so that the civil magistrate would have this inherent vested power

01:45:35.540 from jesus from god vested in him to where he can make certain laws that are not anti-biblical but

01:45:41.120 extra biblical so for instance here's you know to throw out here's here's a hypothetical case for

01:45:46.160 you and it's not that crazy hypothetical because it's something we're dealing with as a nation

01:45:49.900 right now so is every nation in europe immigration so for steven wolf and the christian nationalist

01:45:56.860 crowd you know who's more domestic they're going to say um that uh our civil rulers in america um

01:46:04.480 let's say that we achieve christian national status you know we become christian nationalists

01:46:09.020 and we've got christians in office and we've got christian princes and for wolf to be fair it would

01:46:13.260 be plural it wouldn't just be one to be christian princess so we've got christian princes you know

01:46:17.000 filling congress and you know the senate and the house and you know the oval office the whole nine

01:46:21.300 yards and governors and you know sit all the way down to city counselors and dog catchers and so

01:46:25.880 we've got you know christian princes and we are a christian nation uh distinctly so um okay so on

01:46:32.480 immigration, the theonomist is going to say, well, all you can do is what the law of God says.

01:46:38.780 The theonomist has, I think, a bad habit of the regulative principle, but not applied merely to

01:46:43.780 Lord's Day worship on the Sabbath with the church when it convenes, but to every second of every

01:46:48.840 day. And so the theonomist is going to say, well, there's no mitigating principle in terms of putting

01:46:54.500 a particular percentage or statistic or number on immigration. Instead, all the theonomist can do

01:47:00.580 is he can say well uh by god's law what we can do is we can uh take away uh wicked incentives so

01:47:05.980 what we can do is we can uh the theonorist would uh disassemble welfare which wolf would do that

01:47:10.440 too but he would disassemble welfare uh because that's theft that's stealing um from one person

01:47:16.860 and giving it to another person um so uh the theonorist would say okay so you're going to

01:47:20.640 have less people who want to immigrate if they're not getting free checks and that's true that is

01:47:25.360 true but what that misses um and they would also say of course no illegal immigration so there's

01:47:31.000 going to have to be certain standards and you're going to have to do it legally um uh and oh and

01:47:35.760 to be fair to the theonomists they would uh could also make an argument uh that america is going to

01:47:39.660 be a christian nation so you also need to be at least um outwardly professing to be a christian

01:47:44.020 so here's so what are the guidelines for immigration uh one you're not going to get any free money

01:47:48.560 um so you're going to have to want to work hard the gimme's are over right exactly you're going

01:47:52.660 have to work hard. So that takes it down from a bunch of people want to immigrate to still a

01:47:56.820 bunch of people, but less people. Also, you can't be a Muslim, and you can't be a Jew, and you can't 0.86

01:48:01.800 be this, and you can't be that. You can't be an atheist. You need to be, but I repeat myself, 0.91

01:48:06.920 I already said Jew. So atheist, Jew, secularist, you need to be a Christian. So that's going to 0.96

01:48:12.960 limit it even more. And then you've got to come through the legal process that's been established,

01:48:18.300 and so that's going to limit it even more. So you need to be a Christian, can't be illegal,

01:48:22.660 And, uh, and it's not going to be a free handout. You got to work.

01:48:26.620 Here's the problem. I am not convinced.

01:48:31.540 And I'll say a little bit stronger than that. Um, that's naive. Uh,

01:48:35.660 I am convinced, uh, that, uh,

01:48:38.140 that that will take you down from 7 billion people wanting to immigrate to

01:48:41.480 maybe 4 billion. That's all that does. Because here's the deal.

01:48:45.200 People don't want to just immigrate to the United States to get free money.

01:48:48.980 Um, even if we didn't give away free money,

01:48:50.920 and even if we required a profession of faith and some kind of proof of being a Christian in

01:48:55.380 terms of outward behavior, you know, or adherence, you know, affirmation to, you know, the Apostles

01:48:59.840 Creed and the Nicene Creed or however we did that. One of the reasons people want to immigrate 0.99

01:49:04.980 is not just because they can get free checks. If free checks stopped tomorrow, but we were a

01:49:10.100 Christian nation, you'd have less free handouts, but you'd have more safety, more safety. And a

01:49:17.240 ton of people, they want to leave their nations not just because they're poor, but because they're

01:49:21.580 being ravaged, because they're being slaughtered, because there's crime, because there's danger,

01:49:27.720 because there's threats. Having a safe nation and a Christian nation, if it was a Christian nation,

01:49:32.540 you would punish evildoers. So you'd stop stealing and giving free checks, but you also 0.92

01:49:37.940 would stop allowing criminals to go free. It would be the safest place in the world.

01:49:42.580 And guess what? The safest place in the world, half of the world, and I would argue over half

01:49:46.400 of the world would want to live there. And over half of the world that would be wanting to live

01:49:51.600 there would be willing to go through your legal process to be a legal citizen and willing to

01:49:55.640 profess faith in the Lord Jesus Christ outwardly, even if it never changed their hearts. So, here's

01:50:00.560 the deal. What do you do if you have a Christian nation today that, in the theonomic perspective,

01:50:06.180 you've gotten rid of the prison system, you're flogging people for lesser crimes, and then you 0.93

01:50:14.060 are uh dealing out capital punishment for capital crimes and uh and then you're doing double

01:50:19.420 restitution for theft and if the person can't pay indentured servanthood right that's the theonomic

01:50:23.900 but you're doing that and it's and it's done well it's dealt with crime well and you have virtually

01:50:28.540 a crimeless society well here's the problem you're going to have five billion people that want to

01:50:32.720 live there even without the welfare because just the safety alone it's a flourishing place with

01:50:37.640 opportunity and all that there's still going to be five billion people who want to live there and

01:50:40.840 you say well wait a second before before you think you want to live here you're going to have to uh

01:50:45.200 outwardly you're going to have to pledge allegiance to the lord jesus christ and and uh agree to not

01:50:49.440 break the law and guess what five billion people are going to say yeah we we still want to live

01:50:53.380 there i'll do that yeah i'll do that oh my goodness well you're going to have to go through

01:50:56.580 our process okay we'll do that too so then how do you accommodate right so let's get out of peter

01:51:02.180 pan never ever land and let's come down to the real world for a second how does a country of

01:51:06.960 330 million people accommodate 5 billion immigrants you don't so i'm sorry theonomist

01:51:15.920 like i am a general equity theonomist but i'm sorry we don't have an answer to that we just

01:51:21.600 have to admit the theonomist we like we don't have an answer to that stephen wolf does and he

01:51:26.100 might be wrong but his answer is that the the christian prince prince is the civil magistrate

01:51:31.340 actually has real vested authority from the lord jesus christ by virtue of his position and yes

01:51:36.760 it is still a sense of lex rex, law above the king, that law being natural law, which again

01:51:42.080 is synonymous with the Decalogue, the Ten Commandments. It's not just migration patterns

01:51:45.420 of herds of antelope or whatever. It really is God's moral law, the moral law of God found in

01:51:50.700 the Decalogue, Exodus 20. But beyond that, beyond that, a natural law, he has a freedom so long as

01:51:57.560 he's not violating natural law, which is the Decalogue, the Ten Commandments. So long as he's

01:52:01.660 not violating that. He does not have to find a general equity civil code and say, well, Israel

01:52:07.280 limited, because here's the thing, you can't find it. And that's the point that the theonomists are

01:52:12.300 going to make as a counter to Stephen Wolf. They're going to say, well, you know, I can find

01:52:16.120 from the civil law in the Old Testament with Israel, thou shall not steal, you know, and things

01:52:21.660 against welfare. And I can find things against, you know, the sojourner and the stranger, the

01:52:26.660 alien. Well, these were immigrants, but they weren't illegal immigrants. So, I can mandate

01:52:32.600 there must be legal immigration, there must not be welfare and theft, and I can also mandate that 0.94

01:52:38.640 you need to pledge some kind of allegiance to Yahweh, you know, a Christian. You can do that 0.59

01:52:42.520 as a theonomist. You can do all those things. But what you can't do from the Old Testament

01:52:46.320 is find a verse, a civil law, that said in Israel, we would only allow 5% annually immigration.

01:52:56.660 to back you up so there's no numbers prove you're not straw manning this is i was talking to a

01:53:00.140 friend james b jordan from 1998 talking about pat buchanan and james b jordan he says uh we don't

01:53:07.600 believe in nationalism we believe the international catholic universal community the church there is

01:53:12.500 no christian justification rare jim l here go ahead for using the power of the state to prevent

01:53:17.920 foreigners from selling their wares wherever they wish so his view could have changed from 1998

01:53:21.840 but this is not like you're not straw manning or setting up a position no one has real thing

01:53:26.700 items do say that immigration should be based on religion uh not upon sharing language culture

01:53:31.780 religion and morality you need to abide by god's law and you need to profess uh faith in jesus

01:53:37.500 christ and you need to go through legally and not just swim across a river you know and hide out

01:53:41.320 so like that but that's it if you do that and here's the deal five billion people would be

01:53:45.400 willing to do that especially and here's and they try all the time um and and here's the deal um i

01:53:50.340 would argue that there actually would be more people who would want to move to the united states

01:53:53.940 without the welfare but uh if we also got rid of the crime and it became the safest place in the

01:54:00.160 world we'd be flourishing we'd be flourishing we'd have clean okay i don't get a check but uh

01:54:03.880 you've got the richest economy in the world uh the safest uh society in the world houses big houses 0.66

01:54:09.640 and this and that and the other and like nobody's pooping on the beach you know india's hardest hit

01:54:14.520 like so like you know like that that's and these are all just statistics and facts and like people

01:54:19.260 would want to live there. Not just some, billions of people. And there's no mitigating measure.

01:54:26.220 There's nothing for Israel that said, after all the moral constraints or restraints, there's 0.84

01:54:32.400 nothing beyond that that said, oh, and by the way, immigration annually cannot exceed X percentage

01:54:37.460 of the total population of Israel. There is no such verse.

01:54:40.800 There's no such principle. So there's no particular for sure, no verse, but even the

01:54:44.600 principle necessarily capped that's right to help the nation isn't there in principle either

01:54:49.300 stephen wolf is simply doing he's saying yeah but that um to add that principle is um is congruent

01:54:55.780 with natural law uh which is part of how christ is ruling his agency and it is not anti-biblical

01:55:03.500 it's extra biblical but it is not against the law of god it is not against the scripture and um and

01:55:09.700 if we're going to live in reality and not la la land um you're going to have to have that rule

01:55:15.200 you're going to have and the theonomists uh don't have an answer that's just one i could give example

01:55:20.400 after example but that's just from immigration um that is that is one arena and that's why guys

01:55:26.480 like andrew isker who love doug wilson and were trained at gray friars and you know hardcore

01:55:31.640 theonomists and like that's why uh the guys in ogden ryan silvey and all that like you know if

01:55:37.120 it was 2021 2022 their theonomy this and theonomy that and like yeah theonomist and you know waving

01:55:42.240 the banner and they don't say that but you don't hear that as much anymore um them you know raving

01:55:47.560 about theonomy and so um because uh we we're trying to solve problems right real problems and live in

01:55:56.680 the real world and uh and i think general equity theonomy is still wonderful because i think it's

01:56:01.940 the confessional position both the westminster and the 1689 so whenever the civil law does address

01:56:06.740 something in the Old Testament, I'm going to extract the general equity and apply it

01:56:11.020 to our world today. And I think that that's what the founders did, right? They cited Deuteronomy

01:56:15.560 more than any other book, you know, in our founding documents. And that's how our case

01:56:20.560 law system was developed. And I think it's wonderful. But I don't think that it's anti-biblical

01:56:25.560 or sin or wrong to also, when civil law to Israel doesn't address something, but it is

01:56:31.580 a pertinent issue relevant to our culture and time today to say, all right, we're going to

01:56:37.600 appeal to natural law and reason. And we're going to say, yeah, we need Christians when it comes 0.79

01:56:44.020 to immigration. We need legality when it comes to immigration. We need no theft and no criminals

01:56:48.780 when it comes to immigration. So no welfare, no checks. And also we're going to need a percentage

01:56:53.240 because 330 million can't take on 4 billion.

01:56:58.160 You just can't.

01:56:59.440 And any theology that says, well, you have to

01:57:03.120 because the Bible doesn't prohibit it.

01:57:04.720 Or it's even permissible.

01:57:05.740 It is not permissible to import billions of people.

01:57:08.020 Yeah, and any theology that insists

01:57:10.280 that you must be open to that

01:57:11.720 because the law, word of God doesn't expressly, 0.99

01:57:15.080 you're being silly. 1.00

01:57:17.160 You're being silly. 1.00

01:57:18.280 And so if theonomy is going to just become increasingly silly, 0.95

01:57:21.880 then i guess i'm going to have to stop being a theonomist but i would like to not have to stop

01:57:26.140 i would like to continue to say yes i am a general equity theonomist who agrees with the vast majority

01:57:30.640 of rush journey and appreciates um van till immensely in his epistemology and the way that

01:57:35.880 he deals um with um with uh with the scriptures especially romans and especially when it comes

01:57:41.500 to apologetics i love presuppositional apologetics although i appreciate you know not so much

01:57:45.960 evidential but classical apologetics as well um i i would like to i think that we can get along

01:57:51.760 and that doesn't mean that there aren't any contradictions and that we don't need to have

01:57:54.900 a battle royale and a showdown eventually but right now the orcs are at the door they want

01:57:59.280 to trans the kids and uh and we just we can't afford this infighting and so and and i again 0.96

01:58:05.920 i'll be fair here and say um the theonomists stop being silly and uh and stop being you know

01:58:11.360 insufferably boomerish um and and then but then for steven wolf also brother you know i love you 0.97

01:58:17.780 but stop being a jerk and try to be a little bit more patient and especially on twitter and uh i 0.98

01:58:25.300 know that you think their arguments are silly and maybe they are but you know but try to be a little 0.99

01:58:28.940 bit kind of because we're freaking trying to win stop making one way or another stop making us

01:58:34.660 lose so all right that's it uh my family i heard the garage door opened their home we got to go

01:58:38.180 but uh love you guys thanks for tuning in i hope we engaged at least enough with the chat today

01:58:43.040 to make it worth your while and we're committing to trying to do this every week great all right

01:58:47.740 We'll be right back.

The NXR Podcast - August 14, 2024

THE LIVESTREAM - Aristotle, Multiculturalism, & The UK Riots

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