The NXR Podcast - THE LIVESTREAM - Baptists, Your Children Are Holy (Whether You Agree Or Not)

00:00:00.000 One of the greatest and most frequent requests in our prayers should be for God to graciously save

00:00:05.600 our children. No child by virtue of pedigree or status is born with a right to salvation,

00:00:12.080 and each child must choose for himself to place personal faith and trust in Jesus. However,

00:00:19.340 in an effort to maintain the importance of a personal decision to trust in Jesus, some Baptists

00:00:24.600 run the risk of over-correcting and negating the promises of the gospel that are given to parents

00:00:30.880 and children. For example, 1 Corinthians 7.14. Baptists can and should affirm the holiness

00:00:37.800 and special nature of their covenant children with a good conscience, while still waiting to

00:00:44.080 baptize their children upon a profession of faith. Tune in now as we discuss covenant theology and

00:00:51.540 why the children of Baptists and Presbyterians, but especially Baptists, are holy.

00:01:06.620 All right. Well, welcome back. Good to be here. We're going to be discussing baptism and especially

00:01:11.260 covenant theology today. So, if you've been interested in covenant theology, like most of us,

00:01:15.780 if you grew up in the U.S., you probably grew up in a dispensational home. And so, I remember

00:01:19.760 coming to covenant theology and I read a chapter of a book, I'll put it down and be like, what did

00:01:24.640 I just read? I can take some time to get used to that type of framework as compared to

00:01:28.340 dispensationalism. Where's the plan for the temple, the third temple mount? What about these red

00:01:32.220 heifers? What do we do with them? Do these guys even love Jesus or what? Yeah, yeah. So we'll 0.74

00:01:37.100 talk about Baptist covenant theology. I'm going to go ahead and start. So I'm going to put some

00:01:40.900 definitions on the screen. I'll read them out for anyone who may be listening, not watching the

00:01:44.580 video. But I've got some definitions here that I think are going to be helpful to kind of set

00:01:48.720 the stage. So when we talk about covenant, we're really talking about something very solemn. Some

00:01:54.060 guys would maybe say that there are covenants that are a building, for example, or a mortgage

00:01:58.540 covenant. Those are probably closer to promises or contracts. When we talk about covenants,

00:02:04.000 we're talking about something really solemn, something really serious. All of the covenants

00:02:08.620 that we have as examples in the Old Testament, especially when administered by God on behalf of

00:02:13.960 the individual and contracted with them. They're of the utmost serious. It says in Deuteronomy that

00:02:19.180 I call today heaven and earth as witness against you. And it's as if all of creation is watching

00:02:24.820 as Israel recounts the terms of the covenant that they're agreeing with God. And so covenants are

00:02:30.660 a solemn bond and they're often sealed in blood. So where this really comes from is in the ancient

00:02:37.020 Near East, kings would sometimes conquer or they would take over the stewardship of a people

00:02:41.360 and they would agree to protect them.

00:02:44.440 And because this was important,

00:02:46.020 I mean, like, this is the king

00:02:47.020 that's gonna come protect me.

00:02:48.080 He's gonna protect my walls, my borders.

00:02:49.940 I'm required to render to him allegiance

00:02:51.820 because it was serious.

00:02:53.120 They would do a covenant.

00:02:54.580 And what they would do often in the covenant

00:02:55.780 is they would take animals

00:02:56.560 and they would cut them in half. 0.93

00:02:57.940 They would set them on two sides

00:02:59.120 to create a walking path.

00:03:00.360 And both parties would walk

00:03:01.800 through the middle of that covenant.

00:03:03.620 And what they were symbolizing is,

00:03:04.960 so be it unto me

00:03:06.000 if I break the terms of this covenant.

00:03:08.260 Let me be drawn and quartered. 0.99

00:03:10.280 Let me be cut in half. 0.99

00:03:11.360 If I'm the king and I don't come to the defense of the people that I covenanted to protect,

00:03:15.840 or if I'm the vassal and I don't render the allegiance that I promised to the king, 0.96

00:03:20.020 let me be like those.

00:03:21.160 It's even called cutting a covenant.

00:03:22.840 That's where the word comes from.

00:03:24.420 So covenant theology, the definition of a covenant is a solemn bond.

00:03:29.080 The purpose of a covenant is blessings and curses. 0.84

00:03:31.420 So we see God does this with Israel.

00:03:32.900 He offers to them blessings.

00:03:34.780 He says, this is how I'm going to bless you if you keep these terms that I lay out.

00:03:38.760 This is how I'll curse you if you fail to keep them.

00:03:41.360 covenants also carry with them because we're not always at, for example, the altar in a marriage

00:03:46.180 covenant or at the scene where we would make a covenant with a king. Covenants also come with

00:03:50.520 signs and symbols. These aren't the covenant in and of themselves, but they're intended to point

00:03:54.880 us to the covenant by means of remembrance. One of the best examples practically is my wedding ring.

00:04:01.200 My wedding ring, if you put it on, you would not be married to my wife. It is not as if this was

00:04:05.420 destroyed, that my marriage would be annulled. It's a symbol and it's calling to mind. Even if

00:04:11.480 you put it in there, I'd get another one. But it's a symbol. It's calling to mind the vows I made to

00:04:17.380 my wife. It's circular. So it indicates the never ending nature of our love. It's made not of rubber

00:04:23.020 or not of, I don't know, like they make those cardboard straws that dissolve in water in three

00:04:26.700 seconds. It's made of tungsten. It's made of steel to be durable and to be strong. This wedding ring

00:04:32.140 symbolizes the covenant. And so when God especially administers covenants, what he does is he uses

00:04:38.220 signs and seals to confirm them and to bring them to remembrance of his people. So we see this in

00:04:43.700 the old covenant, as he makes a covenant with Israel, he gives them signs and seals. We're

00:04:48.800 going to talk about paedobaptism, the logic behind it in a minute. Anything to add on the covenant

00:04:52.580 piece? No, it's really good. It's just the only thing that made me think was Genesis 15. And you

00:04:57.200 know, that both parties would, you know, walk through these, you know, these sliced and diced

00:05:02.320 animals, you know, so be it to me if I failed to keep the covenant, that I would be cut and drawn 0.78

00:05:08.400 and quartered and sliced and severed. So this is serious. It's solemn, like you said, and there are 0.95

00:05:14.660 severe curses, consequences to breaking the covenant. And yet, Genesis 15, it's not that it's

00:05:21.040 not serious. It's just as serious, if not infinitely more, but it is particular in the

00:05:26.420 sense that God alone walks through these cut in half animals, symbolizing that when it comes to

00:05:34.520 the new covenant, that he is going to take upon himself the responsibility to uphold both ends

00:05:41.360 of the deal. He's going to take it upon himself to uphold single-handedly, to uphold the covenant.

00:05:48.040 And that's why, part of the reason why we're Baptist, in the sense that we believe that

00:05:52.400 the new covenant, that it's not just bigger, but it's better. It's not just a wider in its scope,

00:05:57.420 but deeper in its promises. Namely, one of those deeper, better promises is that there are

00:06:03.960 no one who's going to be kicked out of the covenant. That once in, you will always be in

00:06:13.500 the covenant because God has taken it upon himself to uphold both ends of the deal.

00:06:18.580 there are no covenant breakers in the new covenant yeah part of the reason for that i think is at

00:06:22.780 least when it comes to the covenants that god establishes with mankind this is not west you

00:06:27.840 mentioned the king and a kingdom that is an example of a greater and a lesser in hierarchy

00:06:33.180 yes but there were covenants between people in the old testament who were equals but when it

00:06:38.040 comes to the covenants with god he in the in the old testament is always the one who initiates the

00:06:42.920 covenant because he is the greater party. He has no obligation to us. We can't come to him and bind

00:06:49.120 him to our covenant. He's greater than we are. He is the one who condescends and demonstrates

00:06:57.000 his grace and his mercy by covenant to which he binds himself. And even that covenant binding

00:07:04.040 himself passing through in Genesis 15 is an act of grace because he has no obligation

00:07:09.020 previous to that covenant to do that for any of humanity, right?

00:07:15.160 God was under no obligation to offer the promise of redemption

00:07:18.340 or to bind himself to the new covenant, prophesying it in Genesis 15.

00:07:24.660 He didn't have to do that.

00:07:26.020 And so even the fact that God condescends to covenant is in itself an act of grace.

00:07:32.420 Makes it a covenant of grace of sorts.

00:07:34.660 Yes.

00:07:34.800 although that said i do think that you know both the westminster and 1689 language just for the

00:07:40.260 sake of clarity is helpful in speaking of a covenant of grace and a covenant of works that

00:07:45.580 you know the initial covenant established with adam i understand the language that you know a

00:07:49.560 creational covenant or a covenant of life um because adam would have lived if he obeyed the

00:07:54.940 covenant and if he had obeyed the covenant he would have done it by grace through faith

00:07:58.140 in the technical sense he would have done it by trusting in what god said he'd have to have faith

00:08:02.620 in the word of God and he would have done it by everything that God provided graciously because

00:08:07.200 for God to provide anything, he's under no obligation to provide anything even for a being

00:08:12.060 that's never sinned against him. God, even just because this creature hasn't yet committed treason

00:08:16.780 against God, does not morally obligate God to protect and provide for it. So everything that

00:08:22.360 God was doing with Adam in a pre-lapsarian world before the fall was gracious and Adam was

00:08:28.100 sustained, albeit not very long, but he was for the short time, he was sustained by grace,

00:08:34.100 living by grace and doing it all, everything that he did well, doing it through faith,

00:08:38.980 belief in God's command and his promise and the threat of judgment. So if Adam had succeeded in

00:08:46.160 this probationary period and then been held out from the fruit of the tree of life and been

00:08:51.380 transferred to an immutable status of no longer able to fall, all that would have been in a

00:08:57.940 technical sense of salvation by grace through faith alone. Um, but although that all that's

00:09:03.720 true, as I've just demonstrated, it takes, um, an unnecessary amount of time to convey.

00:09:09.300 Um, and we all know what we're talking about. It's helpful. Therefore, just to say covenant

00:09:13.980 of works, Adam had to obey and covenant of grace, Jesus' obedience received by faith.

00:09:20.640 And all human beings by virtue of being born and by having been given by God breath of life and

00:09:25.900 being sustained owe him a covenantal allegiance and that's what all of us are covenant breakers

00:09:31.200 in adam that covenant of works whereby do this and live was failed by adam and then passed down

00:09:38.060 to us and then we ourselves fail to render the duty required of us as creatures sustained by god

00:09:44.380 to him um well maybe i have to discuss that another time each of us by our own sin ratifies

00:09:49.280 adam's covenant breaking status right yep exactly so we're going to do in this first segment the

00:09:54.100 remainder of it, I'm going to just steelman the paedo-baptist positions. We want to talk about

00:09:57.860 why Baptists, your children, are holy. They have a special providential status that you should not 0.96

00:10:03.000 neglect or think of them as strangers, but you should think of them as holy children given to

00:10:07.680 you specifically. But to get there, I want to draw the contrast with the paedo-baptist position. So

00:10:12.480 I'm going to read, this is the definition of John Murray. He's a paedo-baptist. This is his book, 0.86

00:10:16.060 Christian Baptism. It's well regarded as the gold standard. There's lots of guys, and there will be

00:10:20.420 some different formulations so i may read this and you may say well i would view it this way or i 0.77

00:10:24.300 would think of it this way that's fine there's different views on it even as a paedo baptist

00:10:27.760 you'd have to recognize within the camp there's differences of opinion right same way there are

00:10:31.720 with baptists we would have different maybe views of what baptism is under the broad banner of being

00:10:36.460 reformed baptist a lot of guys like like greg strawbridge for instance uh so modern guy john

00:10:42.380 murray in christian baptism says this the basic premise of the paedo baptist argument for infant

00:10:47.040 baptism is that the New Testament economy is the unfolding and fulfillment of the covenant

00:10:52.180 made with Abraham and that the necessary implication is the unity and the continuity

00:10:57.040 of the church. I have a graph here that I think is helpful. This was put out in the book of the

00:11:02.480 distinctiveness of 17th century, particular baptism, Pascal de Nault, a great book for a

00:11:08.240 survey. So he gave me this idea for the graph. I wish I was this creative. The way the Pato

00:11:13.020 baptists would understand the covenant is they would understand that the old covenant so we

00:11:17.540 speak of the covenant made with abraham ratified again in moses even with david there's some

00:11:21.760 renewal that that old covenant is an administration of the covenant of grace so you talked about how 0.77

00:11:28.160 the covenant of grace would empower obedience and that's certainly true for the paedo baptist

00:11:32.500 pascal right now you're talking about murray uh talking about murray yeah okay you have this 0.80

00:11:36.460 administration of the covenant of grace right then you come to the new covenant and it is the same

00:11:41.740 covenant of grace administered with different signs and seals right what the paedo baptist sees

00:11:47.760 is a continuity between the old and the new so the for abraham he was given circumcision and then

00:11:54.840 later on with israel passover these were signs and seals and constant remembrance of the terms

00:12:00.400 of the covenant and so they see a continuity in the way that was applied to the families

00:12:04.080 to the children of specifically males and circumcision the children of believers in the

00:12:08.900 Old Covenant to now the New Covenant, where baptism and the Lord's Supper are those signs

00:12:13.060 and seals and remembrances of the covenant, that there's a continuity. The same way those

00:12:17.080 are applied to children in the Old Covenant should also be applied to children in the

00:12:20.980 New. Anything to add on that?

00:12:23.060 Yeah. No, that's really good. The only thing I would add is, also I've heard some guys,

00:12:28.440 and I think this is helpful in steel manning the position, they would add to that administration

00:12:32.600 piece, they would say that not only is it administrated with new signs and seals from

00:12:37.140 you know, circumcision and Passover under the old, uh, the, the, you know, the old administration,

00:12:42.120 the, um, but also, uh, and then in the new it's, you know, baptism and the Lord's supper,

00:12:46.560 uh, but also that change in administration doesn't just, uh, don't think of it as simply

00:12:51.240 administer, uh, administering, administering something, uh, the seals and blessings and

00:12:57.720 curses being administered. But think of that administration in the way that we would think

00:13:01.980 of a government um so like right now we're under the biden administration and lord willing we will

00:13:08.500 have a new administration you know dear god please i mean that dear god please uh that we would have

00:13:15.440 a new administration come um this this year um uh and that it would be a better administration so

00:13:23.020 not just admit uh that it would uh administer better laws or provisions or uh or penalties

00:13:31.140 for breaking the law, but it actually would be new people in charge. And so Moses was,

00:13:37.860 it was Moses's administration, kind of like Moses was the president, the commander in chief under

00:13:45.180 the old administration, and then Jesus, who is the better Moses. So it's not just administering

00:13:52.400 something new, but a new administration, speaking of the federal head.

00:13:57.900 Yep.

00:13:58.080 Christ.

00:13:58.880 Anything to add, Michael?

00:13:59.840 No, that's good.

00:14:00.620 Great.

00:14:01.140 what this results in, so in the Old Covenant, so in Israel, the children were then given the sign 0.63

00:14:07.560 of circumcision, and they were allowed to partake in the Passover, which was done annually, to

00:14:12.020 remember when God passed over on account of the blood of the lamb over the mantle. So in that Old 0.72

00:14:16.240 Covenant, those children received that by virtue of being born to covenant parents. So then the

00:14:20.340 logic would follow that in the same way in the New Covenant, which is not an altogether New Covenant

00:14:24.480 in this system, the new administration, as you just laid out, that children born to believing

00:14:29.760 parents receive the signs and seals of this new covenant there is some one covenant just for the

00:14:35.540 listener one covenant right with two administrations the old administration but the one covenant being

00:14:40.600 the covenant of grace right yes one covenant of grace with the old administration and then uh

00:14:46.440 moses uh and and that being circumcision and uh passover and uh meal and then the new administration

00:14:52.940 jesus the better moses with baptism in the lord's supper exactly and the old covenant is certainly

00:14:58.000 they would recognize had some elements meant to pass away so the ceremonial law for instance was

00:15:01.940 a was a part of this old covenant administration but it was temporary it was intended to give way

00:15:06.340 to the fullness of the new covenant right um there's some discreement on this but largely

00:15:12.200 in the paedo-baptist view then the administration of those signs and seals unites the child with

00:15:19.340 the new covenant so i've asked a couple of paedo-baptist parents like is your child in the

00:15:22.900 new covenant and they would say generally yes yeah that wilson says this that all those have

00:15:27.660 been baptized into christ have put on christ so they're in the new covenant and god will sort them

00:15:31.840 out at the end because there are children who are baptized as infants even to believing parents

00:15:35.900 that go on to apostatize the view here is that they are generally speaking there may be some

00:15:41.140 exceptions for the paedo-baptist that child is the virtue of being born to believing parents

00:15:45.540 in the new covenant and thus receives the signs and the seals that are appropriate to that new

00:15:51.780 covenant yeah the external there would be an external member of the new covenant receiving

00:15:56.260 those external signs visible signs and seals baptism in the lord's supper as well as a lot

00:16:02.180 of other uh you know the ordinary means of grace of being in the visible church and receiving the

00:16:07.820 preached word and uh addressing one another with psalms and hymns and spiritual songs and all these

00:16:12.500 different things uh but in the end christ uh will separate the sheep from the goats and there will

00:16:17.460 be some who genuinely were new covenant members, um, in the external sense, but not the decretal

00:16:24.120 sense. So they would have, they would have these two subsections. So they would say there's the

00:16:27.400 new covenant member, um, and the children of believers. We're not like the, you know, those 1.00

00:16:32.080 Baptists who, who, you know, despise and, you know, their own children. We believe that the

00:16:35.980 children that, you know, the new covenant is not less than the old covenant. It's more. So if the

00:16:40.080 old covenant was for, you know, the parents and their children, the new covenant is for the 0.93

00:16:43.620 parents and their children and all those who are far off. And so it's better. The Baptist is making 1.00

00:16:48.560 it worse. Whereas they're saying it's bigger, not necessarily better. Because what they would say

00:16:53.480 is our children are new covenant members. However, here's the quiet part. The quiet part is that

00:16:58.100 there are actually two subcategories of new covenant members. And one of them is the category

00:17:04.380 where you are an external member of the new covenant, but not the decretal new covenant

00:17:10.600 member, which essentially means that you belong to the visible church, but you are not regenerate. 0.97

00:17:15.880 You are not among God's decretal elect, and you will go to hell. In fact, you will go to a worse 0.94

00:17:22.520 portion of hell because there are greater curses for new covenant members who were new covenant 0.62

00:17:27.920 breakers, and you can be a new covenant breaker within the paedo-baptist scheme.

00:17:32.360 I've seen some using language that almost seems to just expand it and do away with that visible,

00:17:36.740 invisible, even though they would recognize that there's a decretal elect,

00:17:39.440 les lanosphere for instance he's would be a presbyterian and doug wilson kind of gets that

00:17:43.500 way this is what happened with federal vision right as he was saying if you're baptized in

00:17:47.220 the name of the father son holy spirit you're in the new covenant right that's his historic debate

00:17:51.520 with uh james white on catholic baptisms is that is that good are we good right and doug would say

00:17:57.040 did they say father son and holy spirit right if it's a baptism into the triune name then it's

00:18:02.260 good enough even if it's by a religious institution that denies the gospel like rome does

00:18:08.720 and james white was you know had that typical james white face like are you kidding me and this

00:18:15.080 is one of the instances where i had the same face and i love dog wilson but i was like i'm with james

00:18:20.000 right that's what it logically results in is that because then what happened with the federal vision

00:18:24.140 was the intent to give people assurance right so by a federal vision i appreciated that federal

00:18:28.280 means covenant they were administered the external signs of it and so his point was to say you're in

00:18:33.860 it if you don't apostatize so worrying about assurance of salvation right you've been baptized

00:18:38.420 into the covenant you've participated in the signs and seals you are saved you haven't definitively

00:18:44.200 clearly consciously apostatized from it so you belong to the new covenant you're saved stop

00:18:49.040 worrying about your salvation in a good sense in that you christ work was for you like none of us

00:18:55.120 for the record are federal vision guys no we're not even you know we're not even uh paedo baptist

00:18:59.620 westminster covenantal guys so we certainly not uh you know think of it like this you know baptist

00:19:04.620 there's uh disby uh baptist you know way over here and then you know and then there's covenantal

00:19:09.640 um you know kind of 1689 reform typical baptist uh then there's me probably a little bit further

00:19:14.780 than that but still credo baptist then there's your westminster covenantalism uh your typical

00:19:20.240 presbyterian then there's federal vision and that's somewhere in between westminster and rome

00:19:25.580 right and uh and that's uh the worst that can be said of federal vision is that it's dangerously

00:19:30.840 close to rome in in my opinion the best that could be said of it is what you just said wes

00:19:34.740 that i think um in their heart now granted the road to hell is paved with good intentions but

00:19:39.300 in their heart uh to be fair and to their defense um i think their intentions were at some level to

00:19:45.340 combat uh the radical subjectivism and constant never-ending introspection that came with

00:19:52.520 protestantism that you know that protestantism i i'm a protestant so i think you know overall

00:19:57.960 it's a w it's a win but um out of product let's let's just be honest um rome is easy uh it's easy

00:20:05.380 in the sense that um all you have to do i mean if if you're baptized as a baby in the roman church

00:20:10.480 you get married in the roman church yeah confirmation in the roman church you take

00:20:14.480 your first communion your first eucharist and and even with that you don't have to take it 52 times

00:20:18.780 you could show up honestly you could show up like five times a year purgatory will be a little

00:20:22.900 longer but right it'll be longer yep but take the eucharist five times a year show up to church

00:20:26.880 five times as long as you were baptized as a baby confirm um and then show up five times a year

00:20:32.080 take the eucharist maybe go to confession once every few years if you commit a mortal sin only

00:20:37.380 yeah only if you commit a mortal sin does it become really really necessary sure you could

00:20:41.800 do it more but you don't have to um and then get married uh in the catholic church make sure your

00:20:46.340 kids are baptized and then have the last rites that's right and and here's here's the whole

00:20:49.720 point um uh and the catholic who does that the beauty now here's the thing it's it is a um it's

00:20:56.980 a thin facade of beauty because it's not real but um but the beauty is uh is assurance the beauty is

00:21:05.940 the objectivity of rome you don't have a lot of catholics arguing about which catholics are

00:21:11.340 actually catholics exactly and they probably should be having more as the president of the

00:21:15.260 united states right right and so it's engaging in the behavior you know if you're in or out

00:21:20.100 whereas you think of your typical protestant yeah and it's like every day you know re-evaluating

00:21:25.740 like uh does god love me am i in the covenant did i behave well enough am i really saved and

00:21:30.760 because a lot of it what it goes back to is instead of um the object of our faith it comes

00:21:34.560 uh to the the uh the sincerity of our faith did i really mean it did i really mean it did i really

00:21:40.500 invite jesus into my heart did i have true faith do i like did i one more time couldn't hurt

00:21:45.020 to pray the prayer yeah and so the best my point is just to you know i know we're steel manning the

00:21:50.020 you know the pedo baptist but you know we might as well steel man the federal vision guys too and

00:21:54.040 and my attempt to do that is to say that the best that could be said to the federal vision guys is

00:21:58.640 uh that they were sick and tired especially if you look at these last 50 years they were sick

00:22:03.760 and tired of the radical subjectivism of evangelicalism that has virtually honestly

00:22:10.600 virtually zero assurance of salvation and they were saying that's enough we'll go to a quick

00:22:16.720 break just to 60 seconds to explain rome's position to and how it differs from our paedo-baptist

00:22:21.500 brothers in rome's system baptism was what cleanses original sins we talk about the sin

00:22:26.080 that's inherited in adam it's baptism that cleanses it and then these other sacraments

00:22:30.760 are the ones that infuse grace would reduce your time to purgatory in that system uh the

00:22:36.720 the paedo-baptist does not say that baptism mechanically cures you of original sin,

00:22:42.240 does not mechanically save you. Exactly. So Rome says it cleanses original sin. Then these

00:22:47.800 sacraments trusted in the church are what you use to infuse grace through your life. You shouldn't

00:22:52.480 fall from a state of grace through mortal sin. That's a Catholic position. The paedo-baptist

00:22:56.640 is not saying that. They're saying those are signs and seals of the covenant that our children have

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00:24:44.060 is about helping people to have increased power to resist tyrants and criminals.

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00:24:55.700 the honor of the Lord Jesus Christ because he is the King of Kings and he

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00:25:05.600 republic there is no king but Christ. We are free craftsmen and we are honored to

00:25:12.320 be your armor spread choice.

00:25:19.280 all right so to draw then the distinction of the baptist versus the paedo-baptist so here's

00:25:33.180 the second of my two charts again inspired by pascal denalt's book the difference of the baptist

00:25:39.020 is that the baptist says absolutely there's an element of the covenant of grace that eventually

00:25:44.520 becomes a new covenant in christ's blood present in the old testament it certainly is there certainly

00:25:48.940 is a unity between Old Covenant Israel and the New Covenant, the true people of Israel, spiritual

00:25:54.100 Israel. But the form that it's in is not a different administration, but it's in the form

00:25:59.800 of seed and promise. So in the Old Covenant, there is a Abrahamic mosaic structure that is intended

00:26:06.560 to point and to remind and to look forward to Christ by faith. That's that Old Covenant structure.

00:26:12.760 And Israel specifically is offered blessings in that Old Covenant for faithfulness in the land.

00:26:17.140 And of course there's continuity because it's shadow, which points to substance.

00:26:21.920 So there's continuity there, but it's a temporary old covenant.

00:26:26.600 God, the two groups, the tribes of Israel, they go up to mountains and they recite the blessings for the covenant and the curses.

00:26:33.940 And for the record, those curses came upon them. 0.85

00:26:35.960 They're not just everlasting.

00:26:37.480 They came upon them in 70 AD.

00:26:39.460 When you read through Deuteronomy 28, they're actually recounting what happens to them at their final rejection of the terms of the covenant. 0.94

00:26:46.360 they say let us be dispossessed from the land be starving have the foreigner invade us that's what 0.89

00:26:52.380 happened in 80 70 after two exiles and then finally rejection of their messiah they finally 0.66

00:26:57.340 and completely broke the terms of the old covenant it hebrew says uh what is growing old is ready to

00:27:02.300 pass away right and it passed away the axe is laid at the root of the axe is laid at the root of the

00:27:06.880 tree but the substance of the new covenant is there in promise and seed form and so if you look

00:27:11.980 at the cross, you see the covenant of grace promised. The Mosaic covenant of works is

00:27:16.680 the structure. You could almost think of it as a guardrails and it's anticipating. It's pointing

00:27:20.500 the viewer. It's pointing the observer. Yom Kippur, the day of atonement. It's pointing

00:27:24.640 the observer to Christ who is not yet there in substance, but upon his death and upon his

00:27:29.960 resurrection, Jesus, the last supper, this cup is the new covenant in my blood. He inaugurates

00:27:35.600 and seals a better covenant, a new covenant, and that is the only covenant that is in place now.

00:27:40.460 I love it. I'm just, the whole time you're talking, I'm just picturing R.C. Sproul agreeing with us in heaven.

00:27:46.040 He's a Baptist now. 0.56

00:27:46.760 He's a Baptist now, exactly.

00:27:47.780 Calvin's a Baptist. 0.52

00:27:48.360 He's like, man, this is so good. If only I had heard this, you know, I was still on earth. Go ahead.

00:27:54.340 Yeah, so it's two separate covenants. And this is the crucial distinction I want to draw.

00:27:58.620 You'll see in Galatians, Paul describes, for example, Hagar and Sarah, and he does say they are two covenants.

00:28:03.260 But what would be the point, and there's many other arguments, but I think this is the one I want to focus on.

00:28:07.600 What would be the point of the book of Hebrews that recounts at painstaking length how much

00:28:13.220 better Jesus, yes, but especially the new covenant in Hebrews chapter 8 is?

00:28:18.160 This was the promise in Jeremiah and Ezekiel, because the kids kept breaking the covenant.

00:28:22.260 They kept going into exile because the children would worship idols.

00:28:25.440 They kept being enslaved.

00:28:27.120 They kept being conquered. 0.97

00:28:28.480 And so over and over, Old Testament Israel, they're not looking for, as best I can tell,

00:28:33.000 a new administration.

00:28:34.320 like man this covenant just really isn't holding what we really need is a new president in office

00:28:38.720 right it's a great covenant it's all you know they're not saying um if we could only try

00:28:44.760 democracy harder they're not saying you know classical liberalism is great right we just need

00:28:49.560 uh you know we just need a better president they're not saying you know my constitution

00:28:53.200 let's just get back to it uh no israel is saying uh like the prophets at least are saying like

00:29:00.560 yeah the problem we need we need something different yep this this is not good enough

00:29:05.980 because of our sin yeah yeah jeremiah 31 um the days are coming says the lord when i will make

00:29:13.040 a new covenant with the house of israel with the house of judah not according to the covenant i

00:29:18.500 made with their fathers in the day i took them by the hand my covenant which they broke though i was

00:29:22.980 a husband to them says the lord this is the covenant and he goes on to describe the benefits

00:29:26.820 of which are regeneration he gives a new heart in the place of a heart of flesh uh he gives he

00:29:32.480 writes his law on their heart he causes obedience so the whole testament narrative also ezekiel 36

00:29:37.840 exactly right it lists the benefits of the new covenant one of them is i will um i will cause

00:29:43.360 them um to walk in my ways so not just i will call them to walk in my ways and we'll see if

00:29:49.100 they do or they don't no i will cause them to walk my ways it also says i will put the fear of myself

00:29:54.080 within them. Because if it was just write the law on their hearts, well, there is a sense,

00:30:00.920 and this is perfectly biblical and clear, there is a sense in which all image bearers of the living

00:30:05.720 God, whether they're regenerate or not, have the law of God written on their hearts. That's Romans

00:30:11.140 2. That's natural law. And so the unbeliever who's even been lying and suppressing the truth

00:30:18.240 and deeds of unrighteousness in his heart of hearts, even as an unregenerate pagan, 0.97

00:30:23.720 he knows that murder is wrong.

00:30:25.440 Why?

00:30:25.960 Because he knows there is a God in heaven that is a moral God and that he's sinning against

00:30:31.700 him.

00:30:32.240 So every person actually has the law of God written on their hearts.

00:30:35.320 So it's not just like, oh, you know, the law of God was written on tablets of stone and

00:30:38.440 now it's written on tablets of human hearts.

00:30:39.720 That's true.

00:30:40.260 And that's good language and I know it and I've used it and it's true.

00:30:43.080 But it's more than just that.

00:30:44.160 It's not just now the law will be written on your hearts. 0.90

00:30:46.120 The law of God is written on the heart of the pagan.

00:30:48.240 uh it's it's that uh but what the pagan doesn't have is they do actually have the law of god

00:30:53.600 written on their hearts but what they don't have is god putting the fear of himself within them

00:30:58.700 or causing not just calling because the law beckons it calls uh but but god causing them

00:31:06.080 to uh to walk in his statutes that is uh unique uh the the pagan doesn't have that

00:31:11.840 the old covenant doesn't have that only the new covenant has that yeah let me read just hebrews

00:31:16.500 This is Hebrews chapter 8, verse 6.

00:31:18.800 And for the record, the whole point of Hebrews is it's building up to

00:31:21.480 and just showing all the ways that Jesus is better.

00:31:23.940 So Hebrews chapter 1, Jesus is better than the angels.

00:31:26.320 Jesus is better than Moses.

00:31:27.480 Jesus is better than the high priest. 1.00

00:31:28.640 Jesus is better than Melchizedek. 0.98

00:31:30.500 Don't neglect him. 0.99

00:31:31.740 So he's saying, like, don't go back to Judaism.

00:31:33.380 Don't go back to these old things. 0.85

00:31:34.400 Every single one of these things that you think is glorious,

00:31:36.700 Paul says in 2 Corinthians that even the ministry of condemnation had a glory.

00:31:40.420 He's saying even though these things are glorious,

00:31:41.920 even though the thing Moses built and the temple and all of this,

00:31:44.600 Jesus is better.

00:31:45.420 and he lands the plane, so to speak, in a sense, in Hebrews 8.

00:31:48.820 In Hebrews 8, verse 6, starting, he says,

00:31:51.000 But as it is, Christ has obtained a ministry that is as much more excellent than the old,

00:31:55.800 as the covenant that he mediates is better, since it is enacted on better promises.

00:32:00.380 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion to look for a second.

00:32:04.400 Then he goes in and he actually recounts Jeremiah 31.

00:32:08.360 I want you to expand on that for a minute, Wes,

00:32:10.740 because I think that many Christians are going to be totally fine saying,

00:32:15.420 yeah, Jesus is better.

00:32:16.740 Right.

00:32:17.140 Right? 1.00

00:32:17.740 But you're saying that the point of Hebrews 0.93

00:32:19.780 is that yes, Jesus is better,

00:32:22.160 but the covenant, the covenant of my blood

00:32:24.840 that he initiated is a better covenant.

00:32:27.040 And I wonder if you,

00:32:27.660 I know you kind of explained it,

00:32:29.260 but just tease that out for a little bit for us.

00:32:31.840 Right.

00:32:33.000 He mediates this covenant by his blood.

00:32:35.060 Yes.

00:32:35.260 He just talks about,

00:32:36.160 which that's also a peculiar thing

00:32:37.620 that you would have new covenant members,

00:32:40.320 but who aren't actually the decreed elect,

00:32:42.860 which means that they inevitably will go apostate.

00:32:45.420 And that in the final analysis, they were genuinely new covenant members.

00:32:49.180 This is the Westminster scheme, but they didn't actually have internal union with Christ.

00:32:54.340 But the new covenant is mediated by Christ's blood.

00:32:57.200 And so within the Westminster scheme, there is a sense in which the blood of Christ by

00:33:03.200 which the new covenant is mediated is not efficacious.

00:33:06.160 The blood of Christ fails, right?

00:33:08.460 I mean, even, who was it, DC talk or somebody, Jesus' blood never fails, delirious, right?

00:33:13.900 i remember listening to that you know when i was in like middle school so delirious according to

00:33:17.560 the westminster confession is absolutely wrong um and i'm gonna go with delirious over the

00:33:22.600 westminster divines i know okay there's that could obviously be worded better um west why don't you

00:33:28.600 take it away uh well i think right you mentioned the blood of jesus what was happening in the old

00:33:33.160 covenant so you have the author draws a parallel the blood of abel cried out for vengeance right

00:33:38.960 so it was spilled on the ground and that blood didn't cry out for forgiveness it didn't purchase

00:33:43.260 a new way into the throne of god into the heavenly places it cried out for vengeance upon the person

00:33:49.280 who spilled it in the same way blood of bulls and goats it didn't cry out for you as a substitute

00:33:54.280 as a human being for appeasement or propitiation on the part of god so all this blood is being

00:34:00.660 spilled as a part of the old covenant i mean when they inaugurate solomon's temple thousands upon

00:34:05.800 thousands upon thousands of cattle and lambs the old covenant is bloody make it rain make it rain

00:34:10.660 And one of the things it's doing is it's forestalling God's judgment.

00:34:13.520 God is angry with humanity, and he sets up as a structure the old covenant so that mankind

00:34:17.980 can actually live in proximity to him, that he could be in a temple, and he requires a

00:34:23.220 lot, a lot, a lot, a lot of blood that doesn't even, in the final analysis, take away sin.

00:34:28.500 And then Hebrews- 0.90

00:34:30.060 It only temporarily satiates the wrath of, it doesn't even satiate the wrath of God. 0.91

00:34:35.800 It allows God to put his just wrath on layaway, as it were.

00:34:40.660 because yeah the blood of bulls and goats can never take away sin and so it that doesn't 0.65

00:34:46.180 satiate the wrath of god it just holds god over so that at the proper time says hebrews yes right

00:34:51.800 then god could send a at the right time christ died for a substitute the lamb of god who takes

00:34:57.220 away the sins and the point is the author of hebrews he knows all of this he knows the frustration

00:35:02.020 with the high priest who was a sinner and the sacrifices that never worked and so he finally

00:35:06.240 builds up to this is probably a sermon from paul i would take that position yep sermon from paul

00:35:10.640 and he builds up

00:35:12.400 and he says

00:35:12.780 Jesus enacts

00:35:14.160 a new covenant

00:35:15.020 and a better covenant

00:35:16.200 and listen to what he says

00:35:17.280 this is Hebrews 8.13

00:35:18.360 and speaking of a new covenant

00:35:19.900 he makes the first one

00:35:21.300 obsolete

00:35:22.260 and what is becoming obsolete

00:35:23.720 and growing old

00:35:24.380 is ready to vanish away

00:35:25.600 so that old covenant

00:35:26.740 that structure

00:35:27.340 that anticipated Christ

00:35:28.320 is crumbling

00:35:29.440 in the first century

00:35:30.320 is ripe for destruction

00:35:31.900 and that's what happens

00:35:32.840 in 70 AD

00:35:33.520 and the old is gone

00:35:35.180 the new covenant

00:35:36.420 is fully inaugurated

00:35:37.860 and that is

00:35:38.800 the church age

00:35:39.520 and everyone has faith

00:35:40.620 in jesus is united to him through the covenant of grace he bore covenant curses on your behalf

00:35:46.740 right and now you experience covenant blessings and it is vital also you keep mentioning but to

00:35:52.260 understand the the literal physical and local judgment that came in 80 70 um in part because

00:35:59.780 it really does help uh in understanding uh hebrews 6 and hebrews 10 you know because i could just i

00:36:05.420 you know my westminster we'll have to touch on them for a minute quick yeah listening they're

00:36:09.380 like yeah you're really leaning heavy on you know hebrews 8 what about you know it's flanked with

00:36:13.480 6 and 10 try those on for size um and and for the record if anybody wants to i you know i talked

00:36:18.780 through the entire book of hebrews and i didn't speed up i slowed down on hebrews 6 and 10 and

00:36:23.220 took my time and um there's more that can be said than this but part of what you have to understand

00:36:27.660 with hebrews 6 and 10 is the partial preterist hermeneutic um that that this is written we

00:36:33.220 believe by the apostle paul but whether it was apollos or paul or you know whoever um we believe

00:36:38.500 that it was written pre-8070, and I believe that Hebrews was one of the later New Testament books,

00:36:43.520 so on the heels right before 8070. And so when he says that nothing remains, and so he's talking

00:36:50.260 about the old covenant, he's talking about Judaism as opposed to the new covenant in Christianity,

00:36:54.420 but he's also talking about the physical implications and geographic implications of

00:37:01.240 these two covenants, saying that if you're going to stick with Moses instead of Christ,

00:37:05.500 and you're going to stick with the old covenant instead of the new, Judaism instead of Christianity,

00:37:08.360 Well, here's one of, there are many, but here's one of the cons of Judaism and the Old Covenant,

00:37:14.240 as opposed to the pros of the New Covenant in Christianity. 0.87

00:37:16.860 One of the, just practically speaking, one of the pros of the New Covenant is that it

00:37:20.980 is not bound to any physical locale.

00:37:24.580 It's not bound to the temple.

00:37:26.020 It's not bound to Jerusalem.

00:37:27.020 It's not bound to the cherubim statues and the Ark of the Covenant and all that, you

00:37:31.520 know.

00:37:32.480 And so part of what he's saying is that if you stick with Moses in the Old Covenant,

00:37:37.260 by way of consequence you are necessarily by seeking with the old covenant you're sticking

00:37:41.560 with jerusalem you're sticking with this geographic region and you know what uh remains fire it's like

00:37:47.860 oh that's a metaphor no no no literally uh and just uh just and who knows hebrews could have

00:37:53.300 literally been written in 8069 i think it was 8067 at the latest um earliest i think within you know

00:37:59.920 one two three years yeah of 80 70 so i think he's there is the spiritual um analogical sense but

00:38:07.580 there's also the uh the quite literal in pending right around the corner physical local judgment

00:38:13.940 that's coming that literally ended in fire literal fire when you know with with emperor titus

00:38:19.280 wasn't emperor yet but titus and destroying the city and there were billows of smoke they crucified 0.70

00:38:24.140 so many jews they ran out of wood it was such a cataclysmic day there were women during the the 0.95

00:38:29.460 siege that ate their own children which was prophesied that's exactly what the old testament 0.97

00:38:33.880 prophets were talking about they're talking about this terrible day and that's not in our future

00:38:38.000 for the record all the dispute evangelicals are like well i'm not going to get married and have

00:38:42.060 kids because jesus is coming back next thursday that that is terrible theology no they were

00:38:46.620 talking about that it really did happen god didn't fail to send his promises or his judgments um it's

00:38:52.740 it is it's not a um it's not something that uh isn't going to happen it's something that did

00:38:56.880 happened but it already happened it happened in 80 70 um it was on israel and uh yeah women were

00:39:02.620 eating their own uh their own children uh jews were being crucified there were ash and and fire

00:39:08.640 and billows of smoke uh josephus even interviewed dozens of eyewitnesses dozens who said they saw

00:39:14.940 in these billows of smoke and the smoke representing judgment just like joel 2 you know

00:39:19.500 clouds and billows of smoke it's not uh you know chubby little baby angels on the clouds playing

00:39:24.860 harps. These aren't pretty clouds, heaven clouds. These are judgment clouds, smoke, ash, war. And

00:39:32.800 all these people who were interviewed by the late great historian Josephus,

00:39:40.120 they bore testimony saying that in these, through the smoke and the ash in the sky as Jerusalem was

00:39:47.460 on fire, literal fire, the thing that the author of Hebrews said, leave Judaism, aka leave Jerusalem

00:39:53.120 because fire is coming, literal fire. 0.55

00:39:55.920 These guys said that through the clouds,

00:39:58.000 they saw silhouettes rushing back and forth

00:40:00.180 of like the shadows and silhouettes of chariots,

00:40:03.560 kind of like what was seen with Elijah

00:40:05.440 and the chariots of fire.

00:40:07.460 And they understood because it was the same generation.

00:40:10.420 It was literally in Jewish terms, 0.61

00:40:11.700 it was a 40 year, one generation

00:40:13.100 from what Jesus said in Matthew 24,

00:40:15.200 the Olivet Discourse,

00:40:16.140 and then AD 70 was approximately 40 years.

00:40:19.020 And there were many who heard Jesus,

00:40:21.860 one of the greatest prophecies ever made

00:40:24.480 where Jesus said, I tell you truly,

00:40:27.060 again, not just as a metaphor,

00:40:28.380 but in a literal sense,

00:40:29.180 not one stone of this temple

00:40:30.900 will be left upon another

00:40:32.240 and that all this is going to happen

00:40:34.020 before this generation passes away,

00:40:36.120 not just this kind of generation.

00:40:37.040 Do you know how we know

00:40:37.560 every stone was taken apart too?

00:40:39.500 How?

00:40:39.860 The gold from the temple

00:40:41.020 ran down through the cracks 0.83

00:40:42.360 and so the Romans disassembled 1.00

00:40:44.020 every single stone

00:40:45.220 out of the temple foundation

00:40:47.060 to make sure they got all the gold.

00:40:48.700 So Jesus prophesied

00:40:51.660 every single stone they're going to take apart and literally we can be sure to make sure they

00:40:55.620 got the gold the romans pulled every single stone out of that foundation every stone was taken apart

00:41:00.140 because we know that the romans would not leave they were not about that gold seriously i wouldn't

00:41:05.640 have left it no no i would have taken i'd be there digging so all that being being said that you know

00:41:10.040 um jesus said this generation won't pass away 40 years later at the very end of that generation

00:41:14.880 um there was there were the same people he was talking to in matthew 24 the olivet discourse

00:41:20.020 many of those same people now very old but still alive just like jesus said and before their eyes

00:41:28.380 the temple is literally destroyed not one stone left upon another the greatest local physical

00:41:34.400 literal judgment that ever came to israel and then they look in the clouds of ash not heaven

00:41:39.660 spiritual clouds but literal clouds of judgment and ash and fire from being destroyed and they

00:41:46.180 see silhouettes of chariots going back and forth and they know that christ who is the god man

00:41:52.840 forever in flesh now incarnate in the in the literal physical sense is seated at the right

00:41:57.580 hand of god the father but that there was a parousia a a second coming uh that christ

00:42:04.140 spiritually it was a second spiritual coming in 80 70 and that spiritually christ did come to

00:42:10.440 jerusalem and he came not for a secret rapture but to judge israel according to the flesh right

00:42:16.360 for the rejection of him and he told the high priest at his trial you will see the son of man

00:42:20.820 coming on the clouds of heaven so maybe that was when the high priest died that's what it was or

00:42:24.620 maybe the high priest was there in jerusalem and saw jesus visiting and judgment and all that to

00:42:29.680 be said back to hebrews is to say hebrews 6 and hebrews 10 part i'm not going to say it's all that

00:42:34.200 again you can we'll talk about i'm sure you'll you'll mention it west but um in part but if you

00:42:38.260 want a more full explanation, check out the series that I did on the book of Hebrews. But Hebrews 6

00:42:44.120 and Hebrews 10 that says that nothing remains except for a fiery judgment, these kinds of

00:42:48.920 things. And you need to get out of Dodge and leave the old covenant, leave Judaism, leave. 0.85

00:42:54.400 Part of it is explained by this. Part of it's explained by post-millennialism, a partial 0.96

00:43:03.340 preterist post-millennialism an understanding of of the the judgment that was coming in 80 70 and

00:43:10.000 so that you know so the the westminster guys you know they'll they'll um who i love that these guys

00:43:15.460 are you know that we we love they're not only brothers but friends but they would say um you

00:43:20.300 know uh your baptist covenant theology uh makes sense of hebrews 8 um but but uh it fails to make

00:43:27.040 sense of hebrews 6 and 10 and i would say it's baptist covenant theology plus partial preterist

00:43:33.040 post-millennialism that helps me to understand Hebrews 8 and 6 and 10.

00:43:38.900 We'll go to a break, but let me make a quick distinction here in Hebrews 10 too,

00:43:41.640 because it reads, how much worse punishment do you think will be deserved

00:43:45.300 by the one who is trampled underfoot, the son of God,

00:43:47.680 and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified?

00:43:51.640 So you read that and you're like, oh, that's a gotcha.

00:43:53.240 See, gotcha, Baptist, this individual trampled the blood,

00:43:55.840 he's a covenant breaker, and he was sanctified by it.

00:43:57.900 He was in the covenant.

00:43:58.800 That word, Pascal the Adult makes a strong case, can be translated it.

00:44:03.040 So the blood of the covenant by which it was sanctified. 0.61

00:44:05.860 So there's a new covenant offered to the Jews in first century Israel and they profaned it. 0.66

00:44:11.640 They rejected it. 0.99

00:44:12.520 We want nothing to do with the son of God, the covenant.

00:44:14.420 Exactly.

00:44:15.080 So they weren't sanctified by that blood.

00:44:17.820 The covenant was sanctified.

00:44:18.440 The covenant was sanctified by the blood.

00:44:21.660 They rejected it.

00:44:22.960 How much more worse of a judgment do you think is coming on those?

00:44:25.660 Not that we're in the covenant, sanctified by blood partially, and then went on to reject it.

00:44:29.580 by those who were rejecting the covenant itself.

00:44:33.900 Which was sanctified and purchased by Jesus' blood.

00:44:36.820 But the writer of Hebrews has in mind

00:44:38.500 people who have made a profession to the new covenant

00:44:41.500 probably been baptized 0.66

00:44:43.240 and are being pulled back into Judaism. 0.96

00:44:45.780 Right. 0.80

00:44:46.340 Yep, there's that instance too.

00:44:48.340 But they were never sanctified.

00:44:49.460 Correct, I would agree, I would agree, I would agree.

00:44:51.260 And we would say in the outer sense,

00:44:53.740 yes, there is such a thing, the Baptist scheme,

00:44:55.640 uh baptists you know reformed baptist 1689 covenantal scheme um absolutely has the you

00:45:02.340 know the invisible invisible church distinctions and so we still have as baptists a visible church

00:45:07.120 um the difference is it's this simple all right so westminster they're going to say new covenant

00:45:13.080 and that's both visible and invisible church baptists we're going to say new covenant that's

00:45:19.440 invisible church and then visible church um that's you know that includes unbelievers people

00:45:25.700 who are unregenerate people who eventually end up going apostate but they're not a part of the

00:45:30.220 new covenant so it's like for the baptists it's um you've got uh invisible church and then as a

00:45:35.820 smaller circle if you can picture it in your mind's eye so you've got this like a target you've

00:45:39.580 got the center circle that's your invisible church and uh and that is also synonymous with

00:45:45.260 the elect, also synonymous with the New Covenant. And then outside of that, a wider circle is the

00:45:51.460 visible church. But the visible church is not synonymous with the New Covenant. The invisible

00:45:56.640 church, that smaller circle, is synonymous with the New Covenant. For the Pado Baptist, the 0.98

00:46:01.560 Westminster guy, it's just the reverse. They're going to still have two circles, just like us,

00:46:04.860 but they're going to say this wider outer circle, which is the visible church that's made up of

00:46:10.540 both believers and unbelievers, that's synonymous with the New Covenant. The New Covenant encompasses

00:46:15.180 that whole visible church and then within that there's the invisible church and that invisible

00:46:21.900 church that's synonymous not with the new covenant because the new covenant is the visible church 0.76

00:46:25.780 but the invisible church that tighter inner circle that's synonymous with the decretal elect

00:46:32.560 the the new covenant but inner new covenant subcategory new covenant members who are actually

00:46:39.980 new covenant, but then the other guys are still new covenant, but only externally and not internally.

00:46:46.060 And so they have been sanctified, but they haven't been sanctified. And Jesus mediates the new

00:46:51.080 covenant to these unregenerate people who belong in the new covenant by his blood. But in this case, 0.95

00:46:56.720 the blood of Jesus fails. And it's just, I think it's, I think that Baptist covenant theology

00:47:04.160 makes more sense than scripture. What I was trying to say actually agrees with what you

00:47:07.380 guys were saying, because it seems like what the author is saying is, Wes, you pointed out the

00:47:13.040 distinction that the word means it, not necessarily him. And so what I was saying is those who came

00:47:23.360 and made a profession into the new covenant, and then went back to Judaism, what they are 0.75

00:47:28.620 abandoning is not just a blood that supposedly had made them holy, but what they're abandoning

00:47:35.700 is a blood that made the entire covenant holy.

00:47:38.300 It's a greater abandonment even

00:47:40.220 than a blood that may have sanctified

00:47:43.240 or forgiven them individually.

00:47:45.340 There was a greater trampling even

00:47:47.320 than just their own personal baptism

00:47:49.800 or their own personal conversion that proved to be false.

00:47:53.360 There was an abandonment and a betrayal of the entire system.

00:47:57.080 And in that sense,

00:47:57.800 that is taking the name of the Lord in vain.

00:47:59.680 That's taking the whole system

00:48:01.520 of the new covenant onto themselves. 0.98

00:48:03.620 the blood made that system holy and then they abandoned that and went back to judaism well said 0.95

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00:50:03.940 to claim your first free bag of coffee today. All right. So landing the plane, I'm going to 0.98

00:50:09.820 go ahead and read 1 Corinthians 7, 14, because this is a key passage and Baptists need to hear

00:50:14.720 this. They need to hear this. We talked about the Pato Baptists where we think they're wrong now.

00:50:19.200 let's let's pick on our own and for the record uh there are good arguments to come back we are not 0.79

00:50:23.440 the first person to say like oh it's a new covenant that means there's two of them there's

00:50:27.020 good arguments on both sides right but i still think that's true i it's just it is a new and

00:50:31.200 better covenant all right first corinthians 7 14 i'm gonna start at 13 if any woman have a husband

00:50:36.600 who is an unbeliever and he consents to live with her she should not divorce him but the unbelieving 0.54

00:50:40.780 husband is made holy because of his wife and the unbelieving wife is made holy because of her 0.79

00:50:45.280 husband otherwise your children would be unclean but as it is they are holy some baptists uh john

00:50:53.460 gill i think took this position as well as you would see it in the early church when it says

00:50:57.580 your children don't say john took this position that's my understanding this would be a rare

00:51:04.000 john gill l but go ahead but the beautiful thing is theology it doesn't evolve as in the truth

00:51:09.500 evolves but we gain better and better understanding so it's great to be able to look back it sharpens

00:51:13.660 At all the good stuff he's done.

00:51:15.120 And I say, hey, on this specific issue, I think there's a better way to talk about it.

00:51:18.300 So historically, it's been understood as the children are made holy in that the marriage is legitimate and it gives rise to legitimate offspring.

00:51:26.620 You mean they're not bastards. 0.96

00:51:28.300 Exactly. 0.99

00:51:28.880 Therefore, they're not bastards. 0.99

00:51:29.780 Bastard of legitimacy. 0.83

00:51:30.940 Which that framework almost assumes then that unbelievers, a man, biological man, and a biological woman that are married that have children, if they're not believers, that that union and the children that come from that are not holy. 0.94

00:51:42.060 Right.

00:51:42.220 exactly according to this you would have to believe that marriage is um is only possible

00:51:47.200 for christians yeah and uh that it's an uh god didn't give it to humanity he gave it exclusively

00:51:51.940 to the church so so if there's uh uh a muslim husband and wife um that are in a monogamous 0.99

00:51:58.880 you know lifelong marriage um their children are all illegitimate they're all bastards but i'm 1.00

00:52:04.720 sure gil would not have said let's take the children of the jews away and give them to 1.00

00:52:09.140 christian families right because they're you know they're and that's the logical contradiction

00:52:14.360 within that and but a lot of baptists hold this view and didn't you say some guys some some

00:52:19.320 pedo guys who weren't credo baptists they still also held this view some of the early church

00:52:24.880 fathers some of the early church fathers but have yeah as i understand it that's who gill relies on

00:52:28.560 when he says some of the early church testimony was that it was merely referring to legitimate

00:52:33.100 offspring. But Paul seems to be describing an ongoing state. So if I have two children,

00:52:39.540 those children are legitimate, they're the children of me and my wife, and then by virtue

00:52:43.620 of me being a believer and my wife being a believer, they're made holy, if that just is a

00:52:49.260 one and done, then if for some reason I apostatize or my wife and the other spouse was still believing

00:52:54.420 and left in it, Paul's command for them is to still stay in the marriage. So if for some reason

00:52:58.980 your husband is not a believer, maybe he never was, maybe he apostatized, he's still commanding

00:53:03.240 to stay in the marriage, he says, because you sanctify the husband, or the husband, the wife,

00:53:07.060 and your children are made holy. So I don't think it can be simply that the children upon conception

00:53:12.440 and then birth are, because at least one of the parents is Christian, just that birth is legitimate

00:53:18.060 as a single act, so to speak, in a single moment in time. 0.81

00:53:22.240 Right. So you're saying it cannot be that as long as one of the spouses, either husband or

00:53:28.700 wife is a christian or at least a professing christian at the moment of conception and or

00:53:34.400 birth then that in a once and for all fashion for all time makes the children holy but it seems to

00:53:41.840 be because that mean if but if it's a christian family if both parents apostatize now the children 0.88

00:53:48.120 are bastards in some way well it's if we're going with holy means that's what i'm saying

00:53:53.180 but that's what i'm saying so west is saying there's a there's a process there which shows 0.99

00:53:59.420 that that it means more than just a legitimate child continual paul wants the believing spouse

00:54:04.480 to stay in the marriage right he says stay in it now he does say if the other spouse leaves don't

00:54:08.720 literally chase them down lock yourself in the apartment with them he understands you're commanded

00:54:12.980 to live at peace he says in so much as you can live at peace with them because you are sanctifying

00:54:16.740 of the husband and sanctifying of the children or sanctifying of the wife peace with them or

00:54:21.200 sometimes the only way peace is achieved is to let them go if they insist on going and refuse to stay

00:54:27.060 it's not up to you you are not guilty if the spouse left um so instead of them thinking of

00:54:33.440 our children um as a relationship of covenant with the new covenant so me as a christian my

00:54:40.620 wife is a christian our children our children do not necessarily yet until profession of faith

00:54:45.840 have, as far as we can tell, a covenantal union to the new covenant. The new covenant is all of

00:54:51.980 those who have faith in Jesus. Now, children can have faith. The Holy Spirit in unborn infants or

00:54:56.560 those that would be mentally incapable of responding to the word, the Holy Spirit works

00:55:01.820 in a way to regenerate them. But normally speaking, God will work in time and space,

00:55:07.100 and in time our children will then profess faith as they're taught it. They'll be baptized,

00:55:11.240 they'll receive communion, et cetera. And what you said earlier, just to clarify,

00:55:14.700 We don't believe our children have new covenant status until, not a profession of faith in

00:55:19.320 the technical sense, they have new covenant status, not at the moment of a profession,

00:55:25.000 but at the moment of regeneration.

00:55:26.680 But as far as we can, right, God alone looks at the heart, man looks at the outward appearance.

00:55:30.600 So as far as it relies on us, we are waiting for a profession of faith, not because the

00:55:34.660 profession of faith is the actual moment of salvation.

00:55:38.600 We believe that the profession of faith is what will naturally, ordinarily follow, and usually quickly follow, that inward miracle, work of the Spirit regeneration, except for in some rare cases where a profession of faith is not possible, someone who is mentally incapacitated or an infant or things like that.

00:55:58.600 And the London Baptist Confession says this, that the Spirit is capable of regenerating those that are unable to respond.

00:56:03.840 yep i'll be honest not my favorite um i like john three but i'll be honest sometimes yeah i'll look

00:56:10.640 at the references and they're like hey you don't like that i like it they're like elect infants

00:56:14.360 they're regenerate and they're saved and then i'm like oh man i love that where's that in the bible

00:56:18.540 when i go to the references like the spirit blows where he wants bro john three spirit gets to do

00:56:23.160 what he wants no no explanation or exegesis it's just john three spirit blows where he wants

00:56:27.380 i love that explanation but but so the point is our children not a covenantal relationship

00:56:32.800 but a relationship of providence.

00:56:34.840 And this is where Baptists get it wrong a lot. 1.00

00:56:37.140 All unbelievers are not on the same footing necessarily 0.73

00:56:40.240 when it comes to, maybe engagement is not the right word,

00:56:44.680 but relationship to grace.

00:56:46.760 The Puritans spoke a lot of preparatory grace,

00:56:48.940 grace that prepares the heart,

00:56:50.760 that makes the gospel reasonable,

00:56:53.500 that makes them understand the precepts of it,

00:56:55.600 not as yet saving grace,

00:56:57.420 but a grace that begins to prepare the heart

00:56:59.260 for eventually the work of the Holy Spirit of regeneration.

00:57:02.140 So our children are not in the new covenant until they've been regenerated, which then would be followed by a profession of faith, which would be followed by the covenant signs and seals.

00:57:10.080 But they have a relationship of providence in that, and you've said this many times, and I think it's a great point, they've been given to us.

00:57:16.000 Our children have been given not to our neighbor.

00:57:18.800 My neighbors are Muslim across the street.

00:57:20.960 He didn't give my children to them.

00:57:22.700 He gave them to me.

00:57:24.160 And in my home, they are going to hear the gospel on a daily basis.

00:57:27.820 They are going to be prayed for from before they were born.

00:57:30.120 They're going to be taken to church and sit under over 2,000 hours of faithful teaching

00:57:34.880 and preaching.

00:57:36.180 They're going to sing songs.

00:57:37.420 They're going to be catechized.

00:57:38.400 All of these things for the intention of, I believe in God's grace, I am not owed it,

00:57:42.900 for the intention of saving my children.

00:57:45.860 Preparatory grace.

00:57:46.840 To give an analogy, God intends very little wheat to grow in a field that is never plowed,

00:57:54.080 that is overrun by weeds, and that only has two or three little seeds of wheat thrown

00:57:59.880 on to it he intends much wheat and in fact it's the normal expectation right a farmer expects a

00:58:06.300 crop when he goes out there and plows gets rid of weeds sows then he got intense for much wheat to

00:58:12.980 grow in that field yes and to understand this concept this principle um under the banner of

00:58:18.680 grace yes that's something that i i struggled with so for the listener if you're struggling with

00:58:23.140 but it sounds like what you guys are saying is tit for tat right it sounds like guys i gotta

00:58:28.360 shoot you straight i like what you're saying but yeah it sounds like what you're saying is that

00:58:31.720 that the salvation of my children is the product of good parenting and and so to to explain that

00:58:38.020 for the listener because what we're saying is um it's the principle of sowing and reaping which is

00:58:42.980 an undeniable biblical principle that does apply to salvation but to understand that and and to

00:58:49.040 reconcile that with sovereign grace unconditional right uh election is uh that what we have to keep

00:58:54.920 in mind is that God who is sovereign over the ends, namely who ends up being saved. There are

00:59:02.020 many ends, but that being one of the ends of salvation, individual salvation, the same God

00:59:07.040 who is sovereign over the ends of salvation is also sovereign over the means of grace, the means

00:59:13.880 of bringing about that salvation. And it's all grace. So when we say by God's first, my children

00:59:20.300 were given to me instead of my Muslim neighbor. And me and my wife happened to both be believers. 0.90

00:59:26.140 That's first. Second, as believers, it's not just that we did a Billy Graham, attended a

00:59:33.540 Billy Graham crusade and signed a document and went down the aisle once upon a time. No, as believers-

00:59:38.200 And then just abandoned it, didn't follow up the church or anything.

00:59:40.340 As believers, we are regularly, Lord's Day in and Lord's Day out, in a local Bible preaching church.

00:59:47.880 We also are doing family worship in the home.

00:59:50.700 And it's like, and I can hear the listener again saying,

00:59:52.400 Joel, but you're just saying the same thing.

00:59:54.260 That's works earning that you think that by your good parenting,

00:59:58.060 you're working the God of the universe into your debt,

01:00:00.420 that he owes you now the salvation of your children.

01:00:03.020 No, no, no, you're missing it.

01:00:04.460 What I'm saying is that the ends of grace,

01:00:07.280 God saving my kids is grace.

01:00:09.300 But the means of grace, me being a good parent,

01:00:12.060 taking my kids to church, keeping my wedding vows,

01:00:14.300 being a Christian myself and leading them in family worship

01:00:16.620 day in and day out, catechizing them, not putting them in a public school, but putting them in a

01:00:20.660 Christian school or a Christian homeschool, all of that is grace too. Because if I do that,

01:00:26.240 it will not be Joel's hard work merits God's grace. Because if my work merits grace, then it's

01:00:31.720 not grace. It's a wage. No, no. It's God's grace through Joel will eventually blossom and lead

01:00:39.540 to the end result and fruition of God's grace in my kids. God's grace through me. Because here's

01:00:47.600 the deal. If I lead my family in family worship three, four, five times consistently a week

01:00:54.620 for 25 years for all of my kids to go through the home, you know what will have been the ultimate,

01:01:02.240 there are the secondary causes, right? But you know what will be the primary, original,

01:01:07.300 highest ultimate cause of bringing that about? God's sovereign grace. I'll have only accomplished

01:01:13.400 that by the grace of God. So then here's the question. Did God pour out his grace through

01:01:19.780 the means of using me as an instrument of gospel saturation in my home? Did God do that with the

01:01:27.400 end purpose of heaping up greater judgment and wrath for my kids who ultimately reject the

01:01:37.140 gospel and go to hell that is there is a biblical category for that that is possible but i would

01:01:43.180 argue that that is both biblically and in terms of church history and experience that is not

01:01:50.620 normative it is possible but that is not normative so christians even baptist christians i think can

01:01:58.480 hold to covenant succession which last thing i'll say real quick the definition of covenant

01:02:02.660 succession none of it is inherently uh westminster or pedo-baptic the definition of covenant

01:02:08.500 succession is this it is the eager expectation of christian parents that their children would

01:02:14.100 succeed them in the christian faith by virtue of covenant nurture not nature not elect um elect

01:02:22.720 dna but covenant nurture meaning um christian nurture christian parenting is a means of grace

01:02:30.660 that ultimately god is the one who who brings about and ordinarily god who gives the the means

01:02:37.220 of grace of christian parenting does so for the purpose of the end of grace namely because he's

01:02:42.720 he's doing that to save the kids yeah and so my expectation not god owes me and not a hundred

01:02:49.520 percent guarantee but my my whole bent my wife and i are whole bent is we are assuming that

01:02:57.000 ordinarily, meaning far more often than not, if God is day in and day out supplying grace for us

01:03:05.400 to parent Christianly, it is because he plans to make our kids Christian. And anything less than

01:03:13.240 that is not credo-baptist. Anything less than that is just not Christian. It's silly. 0.94

01:03:19.100 There's a straw man that is presented of Calvinism, which is that Calvinism teaches 0.93

01:03:25.440 that Christians don't need to evangelize

01:03:27.680 because God is just going to save

01:03:29.360 whom he's going to save.

01:03:30.820 And the irony is the people

01:03:32.180 who would be making the case

01:03:33.860 that you're arguing it against

01:03:34.960 are actually falling into that straw man.

01:03:37.220 Right.

01:03:37.620 Saying, well, there's no bearing.

01:03:39.720 There's no difference at all

01:03:40.760 if I preach the gospel faithfully

01:03:42.320 to my kids or not.

01:03:43.960 Mm-hmm.

01:03:44.760 Yep.

01:03:44.960 Yep.

01:03:45.680 And there are Baptists who do that, sadly.

01:03:47.720 They say, it doesn't make a difference

01:03:48.940 because I don't have a promise

01:03:51.580 for my kids to succeed me.

01:03:52.960 But they don't believe that

01:03:53.460 because Baptists by and large

01:03:55.240 believe in sharing the gospel they're very evangelistic baptists by and large um

01:04:00.360 they may deny covenant succession uh in terms of their doctrine in terms of word but indeed

01:04:07.880 um they're like uh they're like yeah i think i should probably pull my kids out of public school

01:04:14.300 yeah right yeah i think we should uh catechize our kids in the home yeah my kids need to i need

01:04:19.660 to take them to church yeah like so so they don't actually live like that and praise god

01:04:23.580 and then and then on the paedo side um you know they they speak as though it's uh this is it's

01:04:30.440 covenantal um it's not just the mechanics of nurture even though that is the technical

01:04:35.540 definition but then but then they'll they'll start saying well but it's just really about

01:04:39.660 federal headship and so as for me and my house by virtue of my covenant member status right that

01:04:44.760 ensures that the children are covered but but then the same thing in terms of how the paedo baptist 0.81

01:04:49.020 lives because we've got lots of pedo-baptist friends they're not living as though it's just 0.68

01:04:53.680 this 17th dimension spiritual covenantal reality they're very much aware that its means of grace

01:05:00.340 bring about ends of grace because day in day out they're catechizing their kids and they're not

01:05:05.520 using public schools either so it's funny that like the reformed baptist now i'm not speaking

01:05:09.540 for you know because when we say baptist i mean that includes just other baptists yeah that

01:05:13.760 includes you know a bunch of people who may not even be saved i mean everyone is a baptist you

01:05:18.320 You know, there are more Baptists than there are Christians at this point.

01:05:21.500 So, you know, but what we're saying is, but for our Reformed Baptist brothers and sisters

01:05:25.620 and our Presbyterian Westminster brothers and sisters, we have two different statements,

01:05:33.380 but we really have very similar lives in terms of how we're living it out.

01:05:38.640 The Pato Baptist says, my kids are good, but they're living diligently on the hour-to-hour,

01:05:45.000 day-to-day basis of ensuring my kids are good by the means of grace and the baptist is saying i have 0.91

01:05:51.320 no promise whatsoever that my kids are good and we're saying that's dumb you do have promises

01:05:55.700 but um they're living um saying i have no no assurance that my kids are good but they don't

01:06:02.100 uh in terms of their actions treat it as a crapshoot in terms of their actions day in and

01:06:07.120 day out hour by hour they're uh trying to to immerse their children with the means of grace

01:06:12.220 why because they actually do think that more means of grace works towards a better end

01:06:19.180 i mean you could say it however you want to say it but at the end of the day they don't just think

01:06:24.040 it's obedience to god i need to immerse my kids with the means of grace preaching the word

01:06:27.700 catechism because it's obedience to god of course it is i'm not saying there's anything less than

01:06:32.160 that but the typical reformed baptists that they may say just because of obedience to god um but

01:06:37.600 they don't really believe that they believe it is nothing less than that it is simply because god

01:06:41.780 commands me but it's also because i i want to see my children saved and i believe that more means of

01:06:49.220 grace is better toward that end than less means of grace right of course you believe that you

01:06:54.920 believe it with evangelism with strangers and you believe it with parenting with your children

01:06:58.540 yep anything i do have one last thing and it's a practical thing much ink has been spilt in the

01:07:06.560 last couple of decades i remember i worked at a an international christian school in taiwan

01:07:10.600 And we had meetings, and we read papers.

01:07:15.040 Why is the church losing its youth?

01:07:17.300 Why is the church losing its youth? 0.90

01:07:19.020 Why do people go to a Christian school, and then, you know, by college, they're totally

01:07:24.240 abandoning the faith?

01:07:26.300 And while the topic of the faith of the parents being a bit of a controversial topic in this,

01:07:33.820 I think there's something to be said for if a Baptist—this is my application, Joel.

01:07:39.720 When you preach through this in Hebrews, if a Baptist believes that the means of grace

01:07:46.540 that God has ordained ought to be administered and provided by the parents, that is a type

01:07:53.300 of faith that will lead the parent to do family worship, to teach, to train.

01:07:59.060 And I look at the evangelical world, and I think one of the reasons why the children

01:08:04.800 abandon the faith is because of a lack of a belief in the means.

01:08:09.720 Parents don't believe that if I catechize my children and if I preach the gospel, that is a way of God extending grace to my children.

01:08:22.000 And when my children becoming a Christian or not in adulthood is just a crapshoot, I have no motivation, no motivation to faithfully parent my children.

01:08:33.100 to provide the gospel day in, day out,

01:08:35.940 or even to take on a serious obligation as a father

01:08:40.280 for, in a sense, the souls of my children.

01:08:43.260 It's Calvinism gone wrong.

01:08:44.760 I've said it before, but it's unconditional election

01:08:47.260 truncated into essentially meaning arbitrary election.

01:08:52.780 Unconditional election is true,

01:08:54.080 but unconditional election does not insist upon arbitrary election.

01:08:58.160 What I mean by that is God does.

01:09:00.200 He is under no obligation to save anyone.

01:09:01.940 he does unconditionally elect. And sometimes he does that within one family unit, that he chooses

01:09:07.260 one child and not the other, like Esau and Jacob. We are aware of Romans 9. I've read it.

01:09:13.320 But God's unconditional election, which really is sovereign and unconditional,

01:09:18.420 does not equal arbitrary election. What I mean by that when I say arbitrary election is I'm saying

01:09:24.340 God chooses unconditionally, but he does so through means. His choice isn't hanging in midair.

01:09:31.940 His choice of who he saves isn't just hanging in midair.

01:09:35.840 Look at the statistics, look at history,

01:09:38.720 and look at the biblical history.

01:09:40.280 It may have been in the mind of God

01:09:41.740 before the creation of the world.

01:09:43.700 Yep.

01:09:44.180 Right?

01:09:44.660 That's where the hang of it.

01:09:46.080 Yes, that's hanging in midair.

01:09:48.560 If that hangs on anything,

01:09:49.400 it's hanging on the covenant of redemption

01:09:50.800 that God made with his son through the spirit.

01:09:52.680 It's hanging on that and nothing less than that.

01:09:54.980 That God, the father made a promise to his son

01:09:56.920 and the son made a promise to his father,

01:09:58.280 both by the spirit to save a people pure and spotless for themselves and for their own glory

01:10:04.260 that's you know the covenant of redemption and that's just god god loves us because he loves us

01:10:08.520 that's at the bottom of it but god loves us because he loves us because he loves us um which

01:10:12.760 also because he loves himself and so that's that that's the midair if we're going to boil it down

01:10:16.780 to you know the lowest piece like you know the adam that boom covenant of redemption but yes

01:10:21.400 outside of that the lowest common denominator and that is theologically true outside of that

01:10:26.940 god's election is unconditional he really gets to choose but it's not arbitrary meaning um

01:10:33.220 the ends of grace are are never severed from the means of grace uh 90 of conversions um come

01:10:42.100 from uh from people who are raised in a christian home yeah right if it's not then it's like well

01:10:48.860 no it's just god unconditionally saves okay but then explain to me explain to me um the number

01:10:54.760 of conversions in in deep staunch uh muslim countries and then the number of conversions

01:11:02.760 and uh traditionally uh christian countries um explain if god just chooses yeah at random

01:11:10.920 uh how come is god racist you know how come god keeps choosing a bunch of white people

01:11:16.700 conquer europe yeah one they had lots of kids for two those kids were catechized

01:11:22.080 yeah exactly because it's often without even a bible in the home right so god is not choosing

01:11:26.700 nations because he prefers a certain uh skin pigment or lack thereof i was joking for the

01:11:33.280 record about the racist comment my point is uh no there are much higher it's not even close

01:11:38.480 much higher percentages of people being saved in some places rather than others based on those

01:11:44.060 places in their dominant world views and religions which radically affects the parenting the way

01:11:51.000 children are raised and all this means that God's not actually sovereign in election and salvation

01:11:55.860 at the end of the day is really just the product of discipleship and what we do as we know what it

01:12:00.980 means is that God's salvation really is unconditional really is not arbitrary means of

01:12:06.980 grace never severed from ends of grace amen and practically speaking so I wouldn't say if you're

01:12:13.540 baptized as an infant you need to be re-baptized but where this matters is your baptism Calvin

01:12:18.380 talks about this. It's meant to serve, for one, to remind you of the covenant, but to serve as an

01:12:23.320 assurance of your faith. So if you're baptized as an infant, you don't remember it. But if you're

01:12:28.720 baptized upon profession of faith, which could be five, six years old, I personally was baptized at

01:12:33.820 21. Now when I'm tempted to despair or to doubt my salvation, I can look back and say, no, I professed

01:12:40.580 Christ in front of the believing church. I identified with him in his death, in his burial, but then

01:12:45.280 raised to newness of life i am a christian i'm seeing the fruit i've been baptized all those

01:12:50.980 who've been baptized into christ have put on christ so practically your baptism wesley and

01:12:56.460 you can say i can remember my baptism i can remember it and and that to encourage so practically

01:13:02.220 speaking for your children my encouragement from all this doctrine we talked about but also

01:13:07.640 practically speaking do it upon a profession of faith where they're able then to look back and

01:13:12.100 to say no i i do belong to christ i of my own volition his grace working in me confessed him

01:13:19.160 confessed him in front of men you'll confess with your mouth jesus is blored and believe in your

01:13:23.980 heart god has raised him from the dead you will be saved that that's me i'm saved and they can

01:13:29.480 be encouraged and propelled to greater good works so baptize your children baptize your children

01:13:36.220 baptize your children amen um for anybody who made it this far first and foremost uh you should

01:13:43.220 give yourself a pat on the back give yourself a sticker if you have any on hand um god bless you

01:13:47.640 i hope that it's been helpful for you the last thing that i'll leave you with is this uh we are

01:13:51.880 underway we're still in the beginning you haven't missed much but we are underway in season two of

01:13:56.280 the friday special it's every friday at 4 p.m central time it airs um first airs on youtube

01:14:02.260 and twitter later you'll be able to find it on our website on our app you can find it on

01:14:06.620 your favorite podcast platform apple spotify whatever it is but it's airing promptly at 4

01:14:12.280 p.m central time every single friday on youtube and twitter and um this is the season two friday

01:14:19.840 special with brian sauve and ben garrett who are the co-host of haunted cosmos and so this is our

01:14:25.800 unhinged high strangeness caution to the wind we're still holding on to the bible as our anchor

01:14:31.180 but we're getting a little weird and it's really fun really intriguing but also at the same time

01:14:36.260 i know it sounds a little bit surprising like is this really actually helpful it is very helpful

01:14:41.580 and shockingly applicable especially for western scientific post-moderns and so tune into that

01:14:49.260 we're only a couple weeks in at this point and just to whet your appetite these are just some

01:14:54.240 of the episodes we've got a full hour each episode is an hour long full hour episode on atlantis

01:14:59.900 poseidon his 10 sons which we believe were nephilim part fallen angel and these 10 nephilim

01:15:07.480 kings who ruled over atlantis and and where atlantis actually is exact uh coordinates

01:15:12.040 location all these things hollow earth and the last living dragons where they might be hiding

01:15:17.280 today uh biblical giants whole episode of that mythological giants hercules right demigod part

01:15:23.900 god part man what do you call that nephilim you guessed it when in doubt it's a nephilim

01:15:28.160 uh we've got a whole thing on bigfoot got a whole thing on uh angelology uh got a whole thing on

01:15:34.100 witches mermaids mermaids is one of them witches i wanted to go with the title witches get stitches

01:15:39.180 but we ended up not doing that so but it's uh witches and necromancy uh and other practices

01:15:44.740 of the cult which is on the rise i said some of these are really applicable that'll be one of

01:15:49.100 them uh so a lot of great episodes uh check it out um it's every friday 4 p.m central on youtube

01:15:55.720 and on Twitter, but if you want to not wait one week for each episode to drop and you want to do

01:16:02.320 kind of the modern TV binge-watching style that we've all been spoiled by today.

01:16:07.680 This is better than binge-watching Netflix.

01:16:09.160 That's right. And you want to do it ad-free, like your favorite streaming program, then

01:16:13.980 you can do that with Right Response Friday special season two. What you do is you go to

01:16:18.040 patreon.com forward slash right response ministries patreon.com forward slash right response ministries

01:16:26.000 sign up to be a member even if you just do it for a month and cancel it's the lowest tier

01:16:30.660 cost you five bucks to be a silver tier right response patreon member and you will get to watch

01:16:36.840 all 10 episodes ad free plus an additional two bonus episodes one of them uh is on dmt and how

01:16:44.640 our political elites literally use pharmaceuticals to commune with demons. So a lot of fun. Check

01:16:54.660 it out. Become a Patreon member today.

The NXR Podcast - April 17, 2024

THE LIVESTREAM - Baptists, Your Children Are Holy (Whether You Agree Or Not)

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