Once upon a time, gambling was something done in back rooms in smoke filled basements. Now, one in five Americans has a sports betting app right next to their Bible app. When gambling apps track your every wager, target your weaknesses, and make it easier to bet, is that still freedom, or is it a new form of bondage? And what happens when Christians get pulled into the system?
00:04:24.540All right, here we are, here we are. We're going to be talking about gambling today,
00:04:28.140as you've just seen from the cold open. Michael, you have outlined this episode
00:04:32.280just right off the cuff uh right off the cuff from the outset um i can't help but think
00:04:38.320there's so many like there's just so many things that i didn't think about when i was younger more
00:04:42.980and more things pop up and i just can't get away from the fact that um the state uh really does
00:04:49.260have i think a god-ordained vested interest and um in controlling a lot right like libertarianism
00:04:57.140has no guard against what we're discussing today yeah um you know get off my lawn um you know like0.53
00:05:04.600maybe your lawn stays green for a while but the rest of the nation goes to hell in a handbasket
00:05:09.780like i you know i've always just you know thought you know like let's just be conservative and you
00:05:16.020know so just a small state is a righteous state you know small government that's the way to go
00:05:20.680and don't get me wrong there are plenty aspects of our government you know a managerial state
00:05:26.660a welfare state you know plenty plenty items um that that need to be much smaller but um but there
00:05:33.060are other items uh where the government actually is called by by god i mean romans 13 is fairly
00:05:39.860expansive to punish evil doing and so then the question is like okay so how many different forms
00:05:46.100are there of evil um is there economic evil is there you know is gambling evil um a company
00:05:52.900preying on the poorest of the poor. Is that evil? There's a lot of evil beyond just, you know,
00:05:59.580assault, you know, on a public street corner. And so the government actually has a calling by God
00:06:06.720to be involved in these kinds of things. And just a free market that allows for, you know, anything
00:06:12.800goes is not actually keeping with scripture. That libertarian sentiment is still alive and well
00:06:19.480today even though many of course they don't caucus with the libertarian party just here in texas
00:06:23.560state representative brian harrison who's great on for example like the sanctity of life protecting
00:06:28.360the unborn and other moral things he voted against texas's thc ban because he said hey the government
00:06:33.400right they don't have a role to regulate this well no i do think that actually the government does
00:06:37.320have a role in regulating harmful and addictive thc products they're putting in drinks they're
00:06:42.040putting in candies kids are getting a hold of it whereas libertarians has like well i mean people
00:06:46.360should be free to consume purchase manufacture sell and that sentiment still today people voting
00:06:52.920going nope government hands off we should be able to do what we want right best case scenario is
00:06:58.680the strongest libertarian argument can be made in the most virtuous society right and even then
00:07:05.960some of these things whether it's i mean they didn't have online things like we do now but
00:07:10.440prostitution and gambling and things like that have been strictly regulated throughout american
00:07:14.680history from the very beginning when arguably we were at the most virtuous and the most self-ruled
00:07:19.400and self-governed. So, yeah, Joel, you have a good point there. Well, we are going to be talking
00:07:25.020about gambling and specifically about the rise of online gambling and specifically online gambling
00:07:31.380encompasses the apps and the sports betting that happens. And so this is something that I was
00:07:39.660thinking about, well, what's a topic that would be helpful? And someone actually mentioned it in
00:07:43.340chat i don't know a week or two ago and i thought we kind of we kind of cater to the manosphere a
00:07:48.360little bit and statistically the manosphere is the group of people that is getting into this the
00:07:54.040fastest and the most and so i thought well it's a good thing to talk about and um we we're not at
00:08:00.320least i'm not going to come out and say gambling is inherently sinful right there are forms of
00:08:05.640gambling this has actually been um something that has been talked about i was shocked at how much
00:08:11.740the church has talked about this from the very beginning, like all the way back. And as I'll
00:08:18.740show with some of the quotes, a lot of the early fathers and even the scholastics, even Calvin,
00:08:26.900you know, they said, we can't find biblical justification to call the act of gambling
00:08:32.100sin. But we can go so far as to say it's so unwise and so dangerous that it should be banned.
00:08:38.240And so it's a situation where the church has taken a position largely that even though it's not objectively sinful, the dangers surrounding it were such that the state has a vested interest in stepping in and getting involved.
00:08:52.020So a couple of just opening facts to kind of justify why we're talking about this.
00:09:00.460Sports banning as we see it now, which I'll get into more later, was not legal in the United States until 2018.
00:09:06.500OK, so before 2018, you had to be in Las Vegas or what's the other one in the East Coast, New Jersey, Atlantic City, yeah, to do some of these sports betting.
00:09:21.260But by and large, you had to be there in person to do legal sports betting.
00:09:26.480In 2018, the Supreme Court overturned a previous ruling and made it the Supreme Court didn't make it legal.
00:09:34.500legal they removed the uh federal statue that made it illegal um that regulated it um so that's
00:09:43.580just 2018 that's not that long ago in 2022 seven billion dollars were were gambled in sports betting
00:09:51.740it was a dark year last year last year i could see i could see what madness drove them to that
00:09:57.200no no no no seven billion is nothing okay last year was 150 billion oh wow so we went from 2018
00:10:04.420to zero to 2022 7 billion to last year 150 billion just on sports betting alone online sports betting
00:10:11.960so this is a steep rise uh really really steep rise we talk sometimes about the value of
00:10:19.100industries this one is one that is on the rise um up to 23 um sorry 95 percent of that's happening
00:10:28.260with online betting platforms or apps right so you can go on your on your computer or right on
00:10:33.920your phone. You don't have to call someone. You don't have to be in a casino. You just click of
00:10:37.940a button on your phone. That's 95% of that $150 billion. And right now, 40 states allow sports
00:10:44.820betting. 34 allow it online or through apps. So this number, the $150 billion, does not even
00:10:53.040include large states like California and Texas. Both of them still do not allow online sports
00:10:58.460betting at all. And so the two most populous states in the country are not even part of this
00:11:03.460figure and it hit 150 billion last year in texas you can't do it no cannot do you uh do you have
00:11:10.040stuff on advertising later on a little bit yeah i just have to say like this is it's incredible how
00:11:15.880much this has been pushed this was not i mean some of it is organic because people want to gamble for
00:11:20.040money but i mean my goodness the last few years i'm sure we have all we've sat through the ads
00:11:23.960on television we've seen them on our phone they've been presented to us on social media
00:11:27.500literally in billboards bet bet bet bet that's been a huge part of the rise yeah and not only
00:11:33.720that but it's being built into um like live streaming services so if you pay to watch the
00:11:39.000nba or something like that scrolling along the bottom now will be things like bet on if he makes
00:11:43.720the next free throw or you know and just boom click of a button you're you're betting a couple
00:11:47.940bucks or however many bucks you want and so it's all being integrated and that's one of the
00:11:51.920criticisms is that it's so seamless and the the the safety provisions are so hidden you have to
00:11:59.060click this button and this button this button this one just to set a minimum or a maximum bet for
00:12:03.900yourself but you can almost immediately bet you know a ton of money very easily so there so we'll
00:12:09.660get into that in a minute what I wanted to start with just briefly is actually a little bit of the
00:12:14.420history of what Christian thought has been on this topic. So games of chance and casting lots
00:12:22.280have been around almost from the beginning of history. We have evidence of it. But throughout
00:12:29.400Christian history, there has been an attempt over and over again, and I know this because
00:12:33.840the theologians who write about it argue against it time after time after time. There's been an
00:12:39.200attempt to say, well, the Lord himself encouraged the casting of lots, the Urim and the Thurim,
00:12:45.200for making decisions. And this has been something that you talk about, like some theology gets
00:12:50.800settled and some never really does. This argument, it's in the early fathers, Augustine
00:12:58.420deals with it, and then in the scholastics it's dealt with, Calvin dealt with it. That argument
00:13:04.720comes up over and over again. So it is true that the Lord called people to use lots. And the guiding
00:13:14.060principle seems to be when there is a decision or a resource that needs to be parceled out and there's
00:13:20.540no real perceptible better way to do something. It just really is six dozen of one, half a dozen
00:13:29.480of the other to determine an equitable distribution. And so mom brings home popsicles and the kids all0.97
00:13:37.600want to take a turn. Who gets the strawberry one? That's the favorite. You draw straws, right? And
00:13:43.660then the kid with the longest straw gets to pick first. That sort of distribution of resources or
00:13:49.280a decision that really has no other guiding principle. It could be this decision or this
00:13:54.460decision. We're going to appeal to the Lord's providence, which is really what the Urim and
00:13:58.040the theorem were and we are or casting lots for instance drawing of lots to choose judas's
00:14:03.420replacement that was an appeal to god's providence not a casting yourself on the winds of chance as
00:14:09.640it yeah and it wasn't like we're going to cast lots for anybody to you know like matthias yes
00:14:15.740that's true they got all the way down to two guys on merit you know so they first looked at like
00:14:20.600who's been here since the beginning of jesus ministry you know who's who was a witness of
00:14:25.960his resurrection right jesus only appeared to a select few yeah it was large you know over 500
00:14:31.560witnesses but still that narrows it down you know quite a bit and uh and so like here are all the
00:14:37.440criteria that have to be met in terms of wisdom in terms of character in terms of providence that
00:14:43.260that this person has been a witness and been with us you know for this period of time and witnessed
00:14:47.900these events um and when they got done with all the merit-based criteria they had whittled it down
00:14:54.540to two so like you can't look at that decision nobody should look at the decision and say the
00:14:59.660apostles made it merely on the basis of chance no merit got them down from a virtually limitless
00:15:06.280sea of people right to two and what they're saying is that like we narrowed it down as far as we can
00:15:11.400go and we've and we've presented every single piece of criteria we can possibly present and
00:15:17.300these two um have equally yep you know um surpassed each of these criteria to where uh we have we have
00:15:25.060a tie uh we actually have a tie so in this case it's like you know a football game one's not a
00:15:31.080seven one's not an eight right yeah there's a football game flipping a coin before the game
00:15:35.360starts to see who's going to kick off correct all right that's you know no leadership structure
00:15:39.440either so this is not a wife going to her husband right man i don't know we're arguing about this
00:15:43.640he's like we're really not she's like okay fine i'll flip a coin over it it's the husband say
00:15:47.640yeah master slave it's the master say but in that context there was not even a first among equals
00:15:53.000really with the apostles like they were just they were apostles it's the early church no
00:15:57.080instructions they say okay we're literally in this case every other recourse is gone yeah we'll cast
00:16:01.240the lots yeah yeah yeah um nate i'm going to skip the first quote let's go to quote number two the
00:16:05.880one that starts with clement of alexandria so i'm going to read some quotes from i thought a really
00:16:09.640helpful article um i'm going to say the title of it in case the listener wants to go look at this
00:16:14.760article later it was very long and um well written the article is called what does it profit gambling
00:16:21.160in the christian tradition by jordan baller and it's found on the acton institute so this is one
00:16:26.920of the quotes from his article he says clement of alexandria articulated a balanced and nuanced
00:16:31.640perspective on wealth and its power administration riches he says which benefit also our neighbors
00:16:37.880are not to be thrown away for they are possessing possessions in as much as they are possessed and
00:16:43.720goods in as much as they are useful and provided by god for the use of men and they lie to our
00:16:49.720hand and are put under our power as material and instruments which are for good use to those who
00:16:55.720know the instrument so also a poor and destitute man may be found intoxicated with lusts and a man
00:17:02.120rich in worldly goods, temperate, poor in indulgences, trustworthy, intelligent, pure,
00:17:08.700chastened. His point was, whatever resources God has given you, whether you're rich or you're poor,
00:17:15.980God expects faithful use of them. And in there, he talks about skillful use of them, but also
00:17:21.480a use of them that's going to have an eye to benefiting your neighbor. And Clement was making
00:17:30.120the case there that games of chance have no benefit to your neighbor. They don't provide
00:17:35.040any sort of meaningful employment for your neighbor or any sort of reliable income.
00:17:40.700And basically, he was saying, you're really running the risk of squandering away the money
00:17:45.560that God has given you for your benefit, for your use, and also for looking out for your neighbor.
00:17:52.260Quote number three, this is about Thomas Aquinas. And so he says in the article,
00:18:00.120Thomas Aquinas makes distinctions between participants in games of chance, especially whether someone has been taken advantage of in the relationship.
00:18:10.060He treats gambling profits in the context of whether such money can illicitly be given as alms.
00:18:16.160Quote, this is what Aquinas now says, the winnings themselves of gamblers are prohibited by law.
00:18:20.660If one has played with someone who has the power to dispose of what is his, if he is drawn into the game and loses, he can seek restitution, writes Aquinas, because he has been taken advantage of by someone like a professional swindler.
00:18:35.340If the one drawn into the game by the swindler wins, however, quote, he is not bound to return
00:18:40.860the winnings, but the man who has lost is not worthy to receive, nor can he illicitly keep,
00:18:47.000unless positive laws were abrogated anywhere by the opposite custom.
00:18:50.700What he's saying here is if you're swindled or taken advantage of into a game of chance
00:18:55.100that you either didn't realize or you didn't realize it was rigged against you from the
00:18:59.300beginning, if you lose, he's saying lawfully, by natural law, you would have the right to
00:19:06.860seek retribution. You were basically stolen from. But I do find it funny, he says, but if you
00:19:11.940happen to beat the swindler at his game, too bad. The swindler knew he was getting into. So I thought
00:19:17.560that was an interesting perspective. He's based on usury too, Aquinas. He didn't play.
00:19:22.460Yeah, absolutely. Quick quote from Luther. This is number four. Now, this is interesting because
00:19:29.140the question of usury and gambling um some people tried to say it was the same thing and some did
00:19:35.420not i just for the record luther's position was money won by gambling is not usury either yet
00:19:41.440it is not without self-seeking self-love and sin so he was saying money gained by usury is not
00:19:49.120gained by being productive money earned by gambling is also not really um earned by being
00:19:55.840productive lawfully productive but he's saying they're not the same thing but even so the money
00:20:01.600that you gain from gambling he says is not without self-seeking self-love and sin which i thought was
00:20:08.000interesting um it was totally banned in geneva uh calvin he actually was a representative of the
00:20:14.200genevan government um before he was a pastor and while he was there he helped institute a complete
00:20:21.840ban on games of chance throughout the city of geneva we do need to take that with a grain of
00:20:26.720sand salt because he also banned going to the play and dancing um they're going to the theater
00:20:34.040and dancing and things like that so it was all part of i guess what what in in calvin's language
00:20:41.220a body b-a-w-d-i-d-y a body lifestyle or lascivious lifestyle so a couple interesting a couple more
00:20:49.540quotes here just to kind of set the theological history. So this is quote five, Nate, and he's
00:20:57.240talking here about Calvin. This is again from the same article. He says, those men who think it to
00:21:04.400be wickedness to cast lots at all. So here, Calvin goes so far as to say we're banning it, but it's
00:21:10.800not overtly sinful to cast lots. Those men who think it to be wickedness to cast lots at all
00:21:15.900offend partly through ignorance and partly they understand not the force of this word writes
00:21:20.480galvin there is nothing which men do not corrupt with their boldness and vanity whereby it is
00:21:26.440come to pass that they have brought lots into great abuse and superstition for that divination
00:21:32.680or conjecture is made by lots is altogether devilish but when magistrates divide provinces
00:21:38.300this is resources among them and brethren incur their inheritance it is a lawful thing and so
00:21:45.500Calvin actually found it necessary to defend the just use of lots as a visible display of God's
00:21:53.920providence against the abuses of gambling for profit and for divination. That's similar to how
00:22:00.940he is on usury, where he says, look, if it's your income, you're providing nothing of value. Right.
00:22:06.500But I do recognize practically someone needs some money, they go to their neighbor and that says,
00:22:10.000hey, I'm giving you $5,000. Give me $5,100 back for it. Recognizing that it's not a strict black
00:22:16.140and white. Practically speaking, are you providing value? What is this used for? And where the Bible
00:22:21.340isn't clear, he's neglecting to give a hard and fast rule. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Okay. Two more
00:22:27.520quotes. Quote six. This is from a Puritan named Thomas Gadiger. And so again, quoting from the
00:22:34.180article um the writer of the article uh says the most substantial and influential work concerning
00:22:41.080lots lotteries and chants more generally was penned by the puritan divine thomas gadiger
00:22:45.780in his 1619 treatise of the nature and use of lots he writes that the legitimate use of lots
00:22:52.900understood and applied um some system pardon me applied this christian teaching how to do with
00:23:00.620matters of uncertainty or doubt. They could be licitly used to make a determination where there
00:23:06.160was some epistemic shortfall on the part of humanity. In other words, we don't have the right
00:23:09.880enough information to make a decision. Thus, asserts Gadiger, a lot is a, quote, event purposely
00:23:16.580applied to the deciding of some doubt, end quote. Lotteries are from the human side mechanisms of
00:23:22.260pure chance, and their purpose is to provide some determination in a matter of doubt or uncertainty,
00:23:27.700Where there is no other rational means of determining ownership, for example, or for distributing some good, then appropriately constructed lotteries can be used as a means of determining just distribution.
00:23:39.900And then the last quote that I want to read, just because I think it's interesting, is quote eight.
00:37:01.380Yeah. And this is this is one that is a little bit tricky constitutionally because it's not clear that the federal government would have within the within the Bill of Rights would have the reach to pass something that theoretically is left up is ought to be left up to the states to determine individually.
00:37:22.360so um it's it's part of the federal system that we live in yeah all right so let's talk a little
00:37:28.780bit about the situation now that we have okay i'm going to read a couple of things and point
00:37:34.260out a couple of facts and figures um so we this is a quote from um the hill.com um it says we have
00:37:44.360a movement toward expanding what was once considered a sin what was once considered a
00:37:49.040ice and embedding it at every level of american culture down to kindergarten said timothy fong
00:37:54.220a clinical professor of psychiatry at the jane and terry uh simile institute for neurosirens and so
00:38:00.600he is pointing out now that sports betting used to be even when it was legalized only on the major
00:38:07.080sports or the super bowl or a horse race or something like that now i mean you look at
00:38:12.380polymarket it's not sports betting i know but it's something it's something different but you
00:38:16.180can bet literally on on anything yeah um and when it comes to sports betting not only are people
00:38:23.120betting on major games but they're betting on you know will lebron um dunk six times in this game
00:38:30.780right and it's even outside of the nba it's going to to very minor uh sports that are not really
00:38:37.200watched e-sports um and you can place a bet on almost any aspect of that sporting event at almost
00:38:45.100any level of sporting events and so and you can bet on politics you can bet on politics now yeah
00:38:50.060you can bet on on really just about it on the fed and whether or not they're going to cut interest
00:38:54.060rates this month all of that yeah so this guy's point is opening up uh sports betting is actually
00:39:02.060introducing betting to every element of society where if you want you can literally bet on you
00:39:08.860know what the gas prices are going to be or who's going to be the next governor or you know all of
00:39:13.740of these things and so um society now becomes just a kind of a canvas for flips of the of the
00:39:22.040coin and am i going to get lucky and accurately predict whether an event happens or not right i
00:39:28.200bet on donald trump to win the popular vote yeah that was correct yep the popular the popular i
00:39:33.560just believe what were the odds on that uh i think it was about i think it was like a 20
00:39:38.740i had to be lower than that there's like raw popular vote and then the margins like zero to
00:39:42.880one percent one to two so i just voted raw i want to say it was like 20 chance yeah yeah yeah so
00:39:49.760it was a good bet um but to your point like literally we can bet on anything now yeah on
00:39:54.960anything yeah and the the concern is that it's now it's um what i hear you say michael is it's
00:39:59.760just such a matter of accessibility at this point correct um that at this point it's um yeah it's
00:40:06.160just it's you know before you know you would have to fly to las vegas you know or even in older
00:40:11.360societies you would have to go and find you know the den of thieves you know it's the place where
00:40:16.160the gambling was taking place same as pornography right so it's all forms of lewdness so pornography
00:40:21.680it's like it's like well you know people always present you know um the anecdotes you know and
00:40:27.680say like well there were brothels you know it's like yeah uh but on the terrible dangerous side
00:40:34.160of town yep and you're you're whole way there you would be you know um being booed and shamed
00:40:41.600publicly people are seeing you you have a bad reputation literally like most of the upstanding
00:40:48.240families in the town are not not even going to allow their children to play with your children
00:40:52.160because you're a public disgrace takes your whole evening right yeah because you like it's this is
00:40:56.880your you know it's a it's a physical thing like you i mean you even think like um in the 80s you0.67
00:41:02.240you know, like people would have to go to like a pornography film store,
00:41:06.900you know, the porno shop, you know, with porn magazines, stuff like that.
00:41:10.900But now what it's allowed for is this universal accessibility,
00:41:15.760but not just a universal accessibility where everyone can do it,
00:57:47.700All you have to do is press, yes, I'm over 18, right?
00:57:50.620That's the only age verification, or 21 in some states.
00:57:55.580It says that it will allow you to gamble a lot of money,
00:58:02.380but make it very hard for you to set a maximum amount.
00:58:06.280Like if you know that you don't want to spend more than $20 on a day,
00:58:10.360to find that setting is three or four or five different screens deep.
00:58:15.840But if you want to, right as soon as you open it up,
00:58:18.860gamble $40 right away, it'll do that very easily. So the ease of gambling compared to the difficulty
00:58:25.420of setting up safeguards and things like that. Same thing with Instagram, like when people try
00:58:30.360to limit their time, the app is not incentivized to limit time to show you less advertisers. So
00:58:35.300they're never going to build in a strong like, hey, we're starting the day off. Do you want 10
00:58:39.360minutes? That'll be all we give you. We'll maybe give some suggestions, but that's about it. Yes.
00:58:43.400there have been pushes to require that um uh users have a minimum amount in their bank account like
00:58:50.540so if their bank account goes below a thousand dollars or something like that they can't use
00:58:54.680the betting app anymore and those have been largely turned away these companies don't care
00:58:59.820if someone's bank account is dwindling thousand five hundred two hundred now we're negative
00:59:03.860you know 120 there's no like people have asked them to build build in those safeguards and they've
00:59:10.100been very resistant and reluctant to do so um prompts to place another bet appear immediately
00:59:16.840as soon as you play so you get the text message about lebron james shooting the free throw
00:59:20.820yes and then immediately the app opens up and you've got oh this other game is going on in this
00:59:26.400game and yet last week you bet on this hockey game and so it's just this endless it's kind of
00:59:31.580like the way casinos are designed to keep you in their maze getting out um these these are built
00:59:38.020into the phones now the apps are designed with the colors and the dopamine hits there's little
00:59:43.580micro like you you placed five bets you get an extra five dollars for free you know and you earn
00:59:49.940all these rewards by the more bets you place things like that casinos it's uh it's the lighting
00:59:54.540it's the uh the temperature it's the design on the carpets the you know all these different things
00:59:59.820like all the way down to the carpet and then uh some casinos historically have even uh pumped
01:00:05.660higher amounts of oxygen uh in the hvac oh interesting you know to keep you more alert
01:00:11.700so that you don't get tired and want to go home for fatigue don't fall asleep you have money to
01:00:16.520lose yeah so like at every single level i mean uh another you know common um element of casinos
01:00:23.260is uh there's no windows right so you can't you can't see like the sun's going down or the sun's
01:00:29.600coming up it went down and came up and i didn't notice no no and so it's the same concept it is
01:00:36.820the same concept i'm going to close at least my portion of this by just i'm going to read this
01:00:41.600to make sure i get it right so this is to be fair it's core correlation it's not causality
01:00:46.300okay we don't know if there's a there's a definite cause between these two but um here's here's
01:00:53.100something from um a study that was done by northwestern university by the end of their
01:00:58.080sample period so they they tested um households in states where or they followed households in
01:01:05.420states where gambling online sports gambling was made it was made legal by the end of their sample
01:01:10.380period researchers saw that nearly eight percent of households were involved in gambling the
01:01:15.420previously zero now eight percent these bettors on average spent a thousand dollars eleven hundred
01:01:22.360per year on online bets the amount of money people put into legal sports gambling rose while
01:01:28.060it rose their net investments fell by nearly 14 percent for every one this this is crazy and again
01:01:35.300it's correlation not causality but for every one dollar a household spent on betting it put two
01:01:41.220fewer dollars into savings and investments which that's very interesting right so not only are you
01:01:47.640losing the money but you're also not then doing something with the money to get a return on it
01:01:53.100The researchers also found that this greater access to sports gambling increased general participation in lottery games outside of sports betting, particularly among households that frequently overdraw their bank accounts.
01:02:08.360This, they note, raises concerns about the amplification of risk-taking behavior.
01:02:12.680So the sports betting leads to lottery, leads to casino, things like that.
01:02:15.740last thing overall these changes to speak people's spending patterns led to decreased credit
01:02:21.020availability increased credit card debt and a higher incidence of overdrawing from bank accounts
01:02:26.040the researchers note that the effects were particularly acute among households that were
01:02:31.060least able to afford it pushing them even even deeper into debt wow yeah it's really sad any
01:02:38.160final thoughts from you wes not really no no well there you have it kids stay away from gambling
01:02:45.560um but you know larger theological application is um we do we we have to think through the state
01:02:52.760um if we're going to have a christian theology of government in the state um that's that's
01:02:58.400something that we really have to think through because i think some of the uh the old tropes
01:03:02.640that we uh would wheel out you know uh historically of just you know libertarianism get off my lawn
01:03:09.540just a small state um yeah like yes this the state shouldn't be um a managerial state that's
01:03:17.760holding every single citizen's hand you know through uh you know we don't you know the state
01:03:22.440is bloated don't get me wrong um but there are other areas where it's actually too small i think
01:03:27.900that for me that's one of the big takeaways is um and not just from today but over the last couple
01:03:32.880years as i've thought about this is i think if we had a christian state um it would be significantly
01:03:38.380smaller and in some cases non-existent in some areas. And then it would actually shock us in how
01:03:44.960big it would be in other areas that actually do fall under its God-given jurisdiction. It actually
01:03:51.680pertains to thwarting the evildoer. And I think that gambling is one of many examples of something
01:04:00.960that the state has to police, that it has to... Well, and just to add on to that, it wouldn't
01:04:06.800necessarily mean that the state had to be bigger it would wield more authority right it would say
01:04:12.180this is against the law and obviously there would have to be some enforcement mechanism that's what
01:04:16.940i mean i know what you mean but like my point is what we're saying is the state needs to wield
01:04:22.080authority in the proper areas which might mean it's influencing life in areas that we're not used
01:04:27.140to but that doesn't necessarily mean they need 120 000 armed anti-gambling agents going out right
01:04:34.500Like it wouldn't take much to make it illegal and you crack down on a few
01:04:38.560people, throw the book at them. And then that's, that's it. You know,
01:04:42.240that's true. Yep. Yep. That's true. Yep. Yeah. All right.
01:04:44.840Well thank you guys for tuning in and we will see you next time.