The NXR Podcast - THE LIVESTREAM - Denominationalism Is Dead

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00:00:30.000 hey pastor joel i was just wondering you know i'm kind of shifting in my convictions and i think i

00:00:39.020 might be a little bit more presbyterian than baptist these days what do you think you know

00:00:43.220 what denomination should i join should i be presbyterian should i be baptist or you know

00:00:48.320 maybe lutheran or maybe anglican the wrong question it's the wrong question we're going

00:00:53.720 to tell you exactly why in this episode you do not need to be thinking about which denomination

00:00:58.860 to join. It's not that it doesn't matter. Your creeds certainly matter. Your confessions also

00:01:04.840 matter. There's a high watermark for Christendom, and it is in the rear view mirror by at least a

00:01:11.120 couple centuries at this point. Can we get back there? Can our children or children's children

00:01:16.320 return and take Christendom even to higher levels than ever seen before, pushing for the crown

00:01:23.140 rights of King Jesus over and across the earth? Yes, absolutely. But in this moment, it's bleak.

00:01:31.340 In this moment, it's dark. We have to understand that right now, there is no retreat. There's no

00:01:39.680 surrender. But we are losing. We will not always lose. But if we can't ever admit the reality

00:01:47.180 that it's not great, then we're naive. We're arrogant. We're fools. Right now is not the time

00:01:56.120 to be choosing your particularities with each doctrinal conviction and deciding what denomination

00:02:02.840 you are. That's not where we are. You need to be looking, is there any church? And if there's one,

00:02:10.480 you are exceedingly blessed because right now the pickings are slim. Is there one church with

00:02:17.100 a 50-mile radius of my home that has courage, that has discernment, that knows what time it is?

00:02:24.820 Is there one church within a 50-mile radius of my home that will not excommunicate me for reading

00:02:31.600 Pat Buchanan? Is there one church within a 50-mile radius of my home that will not join the Zionist

00:02:39.180 mob, the feminist mob, the anti-racism mob, and try to destroy my life, dox me on the internet,

00:02:47.100 and make sure I'm unemployed so that I can't feed my kids.

00:02:51.220 Is there one church, one within a 50-mile radius?

00:02:55.420 Oh, it's a Baptist church.

00:02:57.300 Well, I'm Presbyterian.

00:02:58.860 I said we Baptist today, right?

00:03:02.540 Oh, it's a Presbyterian church, but I happen to be Baptist.

00:03:05.480 I said we Presbyterian today.

00:03:07.880 You do not need to be thinking in terms of denominations

00:03:11.660 and particular convictions.

00:03:14.500 You look, especially on the East Coast, right, where we were first settled in these United States

00:03:20.540 by Christians, and you see the remnants of the high watermark of Christendom. You go down the

00:03:26.800 main street in the downtown area of virtually every town on the East Coast, and what you will

00:03:32.320 find is church after church after church on every single street corner. Why? They could afford

00:03:38.180 division over theological particularities because they were victorious, because they were winning.

00:03:45.460 But when we're shrinking back, when the enemy is playing his hand and he has the upper hand,

00:03:52.100 that's when we link arms. That's not when we can afford to fracture. That's when we link arms.

00:03:59.260 That's when a guy shows humility and will lead his family in a Presbyterian church while he has

00:04:05.200 Baptist convictions because he knows we need to win the war. All of the particular convictions,

00:04:14.500 many, many churches that separate over this issue or that issue, that's when we win. When we win,

00:04:21.960 we can afford to have these divides. So you don't need to be thinking, what denomination am I on the

00:04:29.060 basis of what are all my thousands of particular theological convictions. Instead, you need to be

00:04:35.720 thinking, which church will have my back? Which session of elders won't seek to ruin my life?

00:04:44.640 Oh, there's one decent Anglican church within a 50-mile radius that knows what time it is,

00:04:51.960 has discernment, has courage. Well, then as for me and my house, we're going to be Anglican,

00:04:57.420 at least for the foreseeable future. And if there is no singular church, not even one Baptist,

00:05:04.060 Anglican, Lutheran, Presbyterian within a 50 mile radius, then you do everything within your power

00:05:10.660 to either move or plant a church. Those are your options. Those are your only options. Now what's

00:05:19.240 not an option is being churchless. You must get your butt in a church. You cannot give up

00:05:26.580 on the bride of Christ. Even if she's in disarray, God always preserves a remnant.

00:05:34.880 Find her, join her, and be faithful. We're going to break it down today's episode. Tune in now.

00:05:50.760 All right, we saw one of the comments there. Somebody picked up on this. It was unintentional,

00:05:56.060 i promise but he said joel said the words creed and he also said take it higher can you take me

00:06:04.200 i think it's time right i mean i don't know it's what the people want it's what the people want

00:06:09.940 brian sauve that's a shout out to you uh you're gonna have to record a creed song get it on the

00:06:14.760 internet uh it was santa baby like two years ago very painful this one a lot funner come on it's

00:06:20.920 great this is a good one the people want it give the people what they want all right this is our

00:06:25.320 episode we're talking about denominationalism being dead and here's the deal it's dead because

00:06:30.960 no one can keep their arms linked for longer than 15 minutes right now at every step of the way it's

00:06:38.800 like every six months the lord gives us a new providential litmus test and you see a team that

00:06:44.820 you thought previously you were on divide right down split right down the middle and fracture

00:06:51.280 we're splitting the penny a million times over and that's why by the grace of god and i mean

00:06:57.280 truly by the grace of god because i was about this close 2022 2023 you know we're out here

00:07:05.720 independent planting a church in georgetown we started in 2021 so at that point we're about a

00:07:12.400 year two years in and i was feeling that need of i want extended body and fellowship with brothers

00:07:20.360 in Christ. I don't want to just be a one-man show. I don't want to be independent. I don't

00:07:25.680 want to just do my own thing. I know that there is a strength in accountability within a local

00:07:31.180 church and outside of a local church. So whether it's a fellowship or some affiliation or a network

00:07:37.040 or denomination, I felt that. I felt it intensely. And I'm telling you, I was close, very close on

00:07:44.620 multiple occasions to just throwing in the towel and saying, you know what, it's not perfect.

00:07:50.360 but it never is. And maybe it's just my own pride or my own stubbornness. And I'm going to join

00:07:55.560 this denomination or this group, this movement over here, submit myself. And if I had,

00:08:03.140 if I had, it would have been detrimental. Absolutely detrimental. You know what I'm

00:08:10.580 talking about. You know who I'm talking about over the last two years. Correct me if I'm wrong.

00:08:16.280 over the last two years have you not sat here just like me watching from the outside looking in

00:08:23.760 and seeing entire denominations that we thought were based and christ-built turn on local churches

00:08:32.340 turn on sessions of elders turn on independent members in one of those congregations and wrongfully

00:08:39.480 excommunicate them because they denied the trinity right heresy top-tier theological

00:08:44.800 disagreement no because they held to some revisionist world war ii history because they

00:08:53.100 said something about ben shapiro because like we've seen these petty disagreements elevated

00:09:01.400 to the level of excommunication where men dragged before ecclesiastical courts for their twitter

00:09:08.680 page being i don't know just just slightly to the the right of the israeli wire and all of a sudden

00:09:18.660 they're being tried in ecclesiastical courts for whether or not they're regenerate whether or not

00:09:24.240 they're even we just saw this a month ago a man said hey i don't want america to be india we

00:09:29.100 talked about this and his pastor said you're gone from our church yeah that's what it culminated in

00:09:33.160 my kids to grow up in america we're not exaggerating making it uh he was talking about

00:09:37.220 immigration h1b he didn't say hey i hope that india gets bombed off of the face of the map or

00:09:43.500 oh i hate indian people and i hope they all go to hell or oh he didn't say anything like that

00:09:48.540 he was just saying i i hope that india stays in india at least for the most part so that america

00:09:55.700 can remain america because i grew up as a kid in america and it was pretty great and i'd like for

00:10:01.740 my children to have a similar experience kicked out of his church and and not just that but certain

00:10:10.020 individuals in his church also turned the turrets on his personal business and got him bombarded with

00:10:17.440 one star negative reviews calling him a racist so it wasn't just hey you can't be a part of our

00:10:22.500 church it was also we need to steal your livelihood we we won't be happy with you excommunicated we

00:10:29.140 won't be happy until your children are on our doorstep begging for food that's the state of

00:10:35.960 the church today yeah and so my point is if you find a good church i feel like the billy madison

00:10:42.700 is like oh hold on stay hold on as long as you can yeah but i'm really more of a paedo baptist

00:10:49.660 and they're credo bad dude you don't know what time it is you think that we're in a position

00:10:54.760 where we have the luxury to wish that it was a paedo-baptist church instead of a credo-baptist?

00:11:00.420 No, no, sir. That is the reward for total victory, total Christendom. That's when you can afford for

00:11:08.620 there to be a church on every single street corner. They're all courageous. They're all wise.

00:11:14.340 They're all godly. They just differ on the particularities of theological conviction,

00:11:19.920 and you have your pick of the lot and it just all it all it really um distinguishes is do i have a

00:11:26.680 five minute drive to church on sunday or a six and a half minute drive on sunday that time used

00:11:32.520 to exist and by the grace of god i believe it can exist again but that time is not now so you should

00:11:39.460 not be thinking about what network or denomination do i join you should be thinking what one church

00:11:45.820 despite disagreement on particulars if it's secondary and tertiary theological issues

00:11:52.000 what one singular church not network of churches what one individual church despite some of these

00:11:59.440 disagreements theologically can I join because the ethos the spirit of this church and its leaders

00:12:06.620 and its people are aligned with me they know like the sons of Issachar they know the times and what

00:12:12.860 Israel ought to do, right? In this case, the church ought to do, the people of God ought to

00:12:18.220 do. And then you do everything you can. You move heaven and earth to get in that church, join that

00:12:23.800 church, be faithful in that church. That's where we are. To draw a parallel to masculinity, right?

00:12:29.960 The red pill movement was big a couple of years ago because a lot of men, honestly, they worked

00:12:33.840 remote. They worked some type of corporate job and they just, they had to be taught, hey, being a man

00:12:38.480 means taking responsibility. Being a man means being disciplined. And you can teach someone

00:12:43.780 all about it. They can read all of the articles. They can watch all the video courses. They can

00:12:47.560 listen to all the podcasts. But practically speaking, flesh and blood on the ground,

00:12:52.040 there's an aspect to it that can never be taught. In the same way with the church,

00:12:55.960 you will have people intellectually, you are on the same page. We've had this in our own church.

00:13:01.660 There's been great guys. And on every single theological issue, it was check, check, check,

00:13:07.440 check man there is perfect overlap on what we thought were all of our views but then the flesh

00:13:12.860 and blood difference uh disagreement happened oh actually we're not as close a fit as we thought

00:13:18.300 we were we checked all of these boxes intellectually right well i agree with you here well i agree with

00:13:22.760 you here well i agree with you here but then you got down to it oh this masculinity guy that talks

00:13:27.740 a big game that's listened to all this and knows all these things he doesn't have a single callus

00:13:31.380 on his hands and he can't do a 10-hour work day and so the same way when it comes to the church

00:13:35.580 You may be in a church and it's like,

00:13:37.120 well, my pastor's not post-millennial.

00:13:38.680 My pastor's not Calvinistic.

00:13:40.380 Well, but your pastor is actually very wise

00:13:42.500 when it comes to counseling.

00:13:43.580 Your pastor's very disciplined.

00:13:45.240 He's very godly.

00:13:46.180 He's very knowledgeable about the scriptures.

00:13:48.280 Don't take someone that will sit down,

00:13:50.380 will look you in the eye,

00:13:51.360 will give you wisdom, wise advice,

00:13:53.300 spend time with you and say,

00:13:54.700 even though all of that stuff is good,

00:13:56.360 you don't check this box post-millennial.

00:13:58.420 You don't check this box presuppositional.

00:14:00.480 That is not the issue.

00:14:02.380 These practical matters, will he kick me out?

00:14:04.740 Will he have my back?

00:14:06.800 Will he give good marriage counseling?

00:14:08.260 Matters so much more.

00:14:10.020 Not infinitely more.

00:14:11.320 It's not as though, well, he's good on this, but also as a one is Pentecostal.

00:14:14.600 Well, pump the brakes there, chief.

00:14:16.440 But practically, he's orthodox.

00:14:18.760 He's Protestant, if you're a Protestant.

00:14:20.800 And he's a good guy that's been in the trenches, prays for me, cares for my family, preaches faithfully.

00:14:28.020 Yeah, that's your guy more than he checks every single box, but push came to shove.

00:14:31.720 Had no spine whatsoever, and that fed me to the wolves.

00:14:34.740 Right. And what we're saying, I think, is not that at one point in time, the church that you

00:14:41.380 were a member of was a matter of idealism, and now it's a matter of pragmatism. What we're saying

00:14:46.880 is it's always been a matter of pragmatism. It's just we're all men of our times. At a time in the

00:14:50.980 past, Christendom's flourishing, and you can actually afford to be an idealist on theological

00:14:56.180 matters. But the church has always recognized pragmatism in church membership. There's always

00:15:02.760 a matter of location. There's a matter of demographics, right? Am I going to a church

00:15:07.260 that is all 65 plus, and I have three young children? Does it make sense for me to be in a

00:15:12.180 church like that? And so all of these things are things that men ought to consider when they're

00:15:16.000 thinking about church membership. And what we're simply saying is that you can't afford to sacrifice

00:15:21.920 the four or five other important dimensions simply for theological purity, because you're not going

00:15:28.060 to find that church anywhere right that's a really good point antonio um it's not that it was shifting

00:15:33.800 from you know uh once it was theological and that was the emphasis and now it's pragmatic and more

00:15:39.480 practical who's going to have my back and that's the emphasis no it was theological because you

00:15:44.620 could afford now listen you can always afford theological convictions when it comes to think of

00:15:51.240 theological triage when it comes to top tier primary theological doctrine right salvation

00:15:57.140 soteriology, doctrine of God, theology proper, these kinds of things, you can always afford

00:16:02.420 that.

00:16:02.720 In fact, if you're living in a time where all these things are being denied, then it's

00:16:07.480 like Athanasius, you know, it's contramundum against the whole world, even if you're all

00:16:11.640 on your own.

00:16:12.380 So you stand your ground if we're talking a matter of heresy, right?

00:16:15.980 A denial of top tier primary theological issues, a denial of those things is a matter

00:16:21.260 of heresy.

00:16:22.220 It's a matter of heaven and hell.

00:16:23.740 so it doesn't matter what age the church is in, you always prioritize that. What we're talking

00:16:28.900 about is the secondary and tertiary theological convictions, and in prior times, thinking 100

00:16:36.360 years ago, certainly 200 years ago, certainly 300 years ago, in the West, by and large,

00:16:42.380 in the last couple of centuries, these second and third tier theological issues seem to be

00:16:48.660 the sole emphasis of distinguishing between which church or denomination or whatever you were going

00:16:55.800 to be a part of. And the reason why is not because back then people cared about theological

00:17:00.520 convictions, again, talking about secondary and tertiary, and now they care more about pragmatism

00:17:06.000 over theological issues. No, it's because back then pragmatism was assumed. You could assume

00:17:12.160 that 99 percent of churches 200 years ago weren't raging feminist they were not communist they were

00:17:21.200 not um um anti-racist liberals you know or or raging zionist or whatever uh the the pragmatism

00:17:30.400 it's not that we used to care about theology but now you know joel's become more of a pragmatist

00:17:34.900 and i don't like that transition i think that shows that he's compromised no we were always

00:17:39.160 pragmatists but pragmatism that element that's not all we were but it was always there it was

00:17:44.700 always a part of the equation and the reason that it wasn't always emphasized is because for the

00:17:49.860 most part every denomination and every single church was on board every single church in the

00:17:56.360 west a couple hundred years ago was on board with these basic cultural practical elements of not

00:18:04.500 being feminist of of not being communist of not you know this that and the other and so when that

00:18:12.140 was in line and every church was pretty much on board it's not that pragmatism did not matter

00:18:18.480 then it's that pragmatism did matter then but it wasn't thought about it wasn't spoken about

00:18:23.880 because it was an assumed today it's not and that's why we're having to bring it up so we're

00:18:30.720 not saying these cultural and practical familial elements like will my church love me and my

00:18:37.500 children will my church get my back and not excommunicate me and try to destroy my business

00:18:43.140 we're not saying that this has elevated above all theological issues we're saying at this moment

00:18:49.860 because the church is in such sad shape in such disarray this pragmatic element has at this point

00:18:59.000 risen to a priority above theological convictions in the secondary and tertiary categories,

00:19:07.120 never primary. I think that that's a fair argument. Yeah. We've mentioned this before as well,

00:19:12.900 especially if you were reformed, the Young Restless Reform Movement, you very much so had

00:19:17.720 the sense that church was always kind of the launching pad for everything. So it was matchmaking.

00:19:21.780 Where do I find someone to marry? Well, that's my local church. I want to start a business. Who do I

00:19:25.460 started with? Somebody in my local church. Where do I have my friends? Where do I have my fellowship?

00:19:29.220 Where do I have my community? Well, it's Sunday morning and it's Sunday night, and it's my gospel

00:19:33.340 group on Mondays. It's my men's group on Tuesdays. It's prayer meeting on Wednesdays, men's prayer

00:19:37.840 breakfast on Saturdays. This local church, this idea, it's everything. It's your friendships. It's

00:19:42.280 where you find people to marry. It's where you do business. And a lot of us had that mindset. Well,

00:19:46.120 the church is all of those things. And there are certainly times, especially when you're under fire,

00:19:51.240 that the church will be that. That the church is where it's going to be where men band together

00:19:54.240 run for political office where they start businesses. But practically speaking, your

00:19:58.260 church doesn't have to be that. In a time past, it wasn't the case that every single marriage that

00:20:02.920 came out, every single friendship was always going to be tied to the local church. Men would have

00:20:07.640 friends, acquaintances, business, all these different things. And then on Sunday, one day

00:20:11.560 of week in the Lord's Day, they may go and spend time with people they don't actually see very much

00:20:15.740 during the week. Now, that's not to say they were lacking in friendships, lacking in opportunities,

00:20:19.420 lacking in starting businesses, but it is to say, hey, I'm in a church and people aren't necessarily

00:20:24.720 starting businesses here. They're not doing this or doing that. That's great. You have a whole

00:20:29.540 town. You have a whole area, a whole city. You have, due to the internet, you have people all

00:20:33.680 over the country you can do that with. It does not have to be your local church. No, feel in your

00:20:38.480 conscience bound. Hey, it's a small church. I live in a small town. The church in it is small.

00:20:43.640 These guys have to be all of it. No, not at all. You can say, hey, I go here on Sunday morning.

00:20:48.080 I faithfully give to support the work.

00:20:50.540 I take the Lord's Supper, take the sacraments, participate in baptism.

00:20:54.740 I encourage, sing, attend the message, encourage my pastor.

00:20:58.660 And the other six days of the week, I'm working.

00:21:00.880 Six days shall you labor and do all your work.

00:21:03.260 And the seventh day is the Sabbath to the Lord your God.

00:21:05.600 So very much so, if you don't feel it already,

00:21:08.500 feel your conscience freed from the need for your local church to be everything.

00:21:12.180 That's great if it is.

00:21:12.980 That's great if all your friendships and everything come from it.

00:21:15.520 But it doesn't have to be.

00:21:16.380 You have done no wrong.

00:21:17.560 if you have a little bit of different communities Sunday versus the rest of the week very well said

00:21:22.280 all right so this is what we're going to do for this stream I want to spend some extra time on

00:21:27.820 super chats today I want to get to it sooner so I want to let everybody know especially if you're

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00:23:14.060 segment we're going to go to our first commercial break we'll come back probably for a shorter

00:23:18.440 segment about 15 20 minutes flesh out this idea a little bit more a little bit more practicalities

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00:28:24.800 all right for our second segment this is the question of the hour i talked about different

00:28:31.280 protestant denominations i applied the principle within the protestant realm but what about

00:28:36.520 catholics what about eastern orthodox does the principle cross over the aisle even to the realm

00:28:42.300 of protestant versus catholic versus eastern orthodox to kind of frame this segment that's

00:28:48.160 what we'll be dealing with and then we'll get to the super chats in our final third segment but to

00:28:52.260 frame this i'm going to use one of the super chats preemptively this is from located goose he gave us

00:28:57.680 five dollars we appreciate that thank you he said christian unity with catholic and orthodox

00:29:02.960 relatives that seem to bear real christian fruit so he's asking like what about christian unity

00:29:09.440 with catholic and orthodox relatives that seem to bear real christian fruit what do you think about

00:29:16.120 that all right so that's the question that's what we're going to be dealing with does this principle

00:29:20.020 that we've been outlining saying, hey, don't be looking for a denomination with all your

00:29:24.580 theological particularities in the secondary and tertiary theological categories. Rather be looking

00:29:30.000 for a local church, not a denomination, but one independent local church where you'll align with

00:29:36.700 the elders, with the congregation, and the big things in terms of, they're not going to

00:29:41.420 excommunicate me. They're going to get my back. They know what time it is. They have a spine.

00:29:45.200 they have courage and we agree on the top tier primary theological convictions that's a non

00:29:50.520 negotiable but we may have some particular theological distinctions disagreements in the

00:29:56.920 secondary and tertiary category so that's the principle as we've espoused it thus far does

00:30:02.740 this principle apply further beyond just presbyterian to baptist to anglican to episcopalian

00:30:08.640 to methodist to x y and z lutheran does it apply across the protestant aisle all the way to catholics

00:30:14.760 and to EO. That's what we're going to be fleshing out in the second segment. Wes, what do you think?

00:30:22.940 There's something really to be said for worshiping in a place where you can do it in good

00:30:27.040 conscience. So even with the Baptist example, let's say you find a Baptist church, and honestly,

00:30:31.080 the man there, like we described, like the quintessential man of the people, the pastor

00:30:35.160 there is objectively a good man, a good father, a good husband, all the qualifications of elder,

00:30:39.920 and he's a guy with calluses on his hands that's not going to kick you out. But Sunday morning,

00:30:44.340 There's an American flag on one side of the stage, an Israel flag on the other.

00:30:47.960 He doesn't make a big deal about it.

00:30:49.560 But still, if you're a right response top guy, you enjoy what we say, you have some major differences with that.

00:30:56.340 And that objectively, again, we've said, hey, prioritize more church that's not going to kick you out.

00:31:00.700 Prioritize leaders that care about you and care about your soul.

00:31:04.560 Objectively, that's still going to be a tough pill to swallow.

00:31:07.800 So expand the concept.

00:31:09.120 In this case, it's a disagreement over dispensationalism.

00:31:11.340 is expand the concept again and say you're a baptist in a tiny town and all the baptist churches

00:31:15.780 are gay all the presbyterian churches are gay but there's a catholic church that maybe it's a priest

00:31:20.340 that's online that's known as being based can you go there and our answer would be and we all kind

00:31:25.500 of agreed it would be a no and that's not necessarily uh because maybe he's not a good

00:31:30.440 guy it's because you can't go there the difference is as large as they are they're real and they're

00:31:35.940 meaningful you can't go there every sunday and not begin to chafe at it because like we were saying

00:31:41.240 in terms of theological triage, primary, secondary, tertiary, because the difference is when it comes

00:31:47.540 to Catholic versus Protestant versus EO, they stretch all the way up. Not every single thing,

00:31:53.560 but there are some things that stretch all the way up into that primary category. It's definitely

00:32:00.000 some secondary and tertiary differences, but there are also some primary differences. Now,

00:32:05.520 what do we not mean by that? We don't mean, therefore, Catholics are our biggest enemy,

00:32:10.160 or we hate them or we can't partner with them or love them or have meaningful friendship with them.

00:32:15.220 That's not what we're saying at all.

00:32:17.240 You guys who've been following the ministry, you know that that's not the position that we've taken.

00:32:20.540 And we've received a lot of flack from some of our more autistic, reformed Protestant brothers in Christ,

00:32:28.780 who we also love but we disagree when it comes to what extent can we partner with Roman Catholics

00:32:36.620 and with eastern orthodox people you know what extent can we partner now what we're saying

00:32:43.480 is that when it comes to i've got to have a local church that loves my family um that preaches the

00:32:52.260 bible and that's not going to excommunicate us that that has a general sense the ethos the the

00:32:57.840 spirit of is a car knowing the times that has a spine that has courage when it comes to this

00:33:04.280 yes we think that you should be able to step across at least temporarily it may be a year

00:33:11.540 it may be five years it may be 10 years i don't know let's see let's see if we win let's see if

00:33:16.180 we can get some victories right now i don't know about you but the oh mr president it's too much

00:33:20.660 winning i'm not feeling it i'm not feeling too much winning in fact i'm not feeling hardly

00:33:24.760 any winning so we're not there and maybe we're there by the grace of god in one year five years

00:33:30.360 10 years 15 years 20 I don't know but until we're there temporarily being willing to step across

00:33:36.300 denominational boundaries we think is vital that it's absolutely necessary that finding a church

00:33:42.740 that won't excommunicate you that disagrees on mode of baptism is of more value that there's a

00:33:50.160 greater immediate urgency in that and finding that caliber church than finding a church that

00:33:57.100 agrees with you on every, you know, secondary and tertiary theological issue. But there are primary

00:34:03.260 distinctives. There are primary differences when we're talking about not just Presbyterian to

00:34:08.580 Baptist denominationally, but we're talking about Protestant to Catholic to EO. So with these guys,

00:34:15.520 what does that mean? What it means is that you have six days a week. You have six days a week

00:34:22.260 where you can partner and link arms and love and be charitable and be on mission together in the

00:34:29.620 realm of politics and culture fighting political battles fighting cultural battles you can join i

00:34:37.400 wouldn't just say you can i think that if you don't if you're not willing to link arms with

00:34:43.140 catholics and eastern orthodox to fight monday through saturday political and cultural battles

00:34:49.940 then you are committing an unforced error. You are unnecessarily splitting the ranks and we're

00:34:59.120 not going to win. We are not going to win. You are causing our team to fall on its sword

00:35:05.360 unnecessarily. You are choosing to be so autistic that you cause the broader body of Christ to

00:35:14.500 commit cultural and political suicide i think that that is foolish however i think that there

00:35:20.440 is also an error on the other side of the road another ditch that you can fall into that you

00:35:25.640 can say well because i have these catholic friends or if you're catholic these protestant friends or

00:35:30.880 these eastern orthodox friends and although i disagree with you know their infatuation with

00:35:35.880 essential oils i'm looking at you eo bros um you know although i disagree with this you know we

00:35:41.400 found so much commonality so much commonality in the realm of of fighting the cultural battle and

00:35:47.820 fighting the political battle and and there's so much camaraderie and a sense of brotherhood

00:35:52.840 monday through saturday why don't we just transfer that over into sunday as well and what i'm saying

00:35:59.780 is that you can't yeah and we love catholics and we love eastern orthodox um but you can't

00:36:07.640 At the end of the day, what we're talking about is a balanced, I know we don't like this word,

00:36:12.780 but nuanced view. What we're advocating for is more unity in culture and politics,

00:36:20.080 the broader team pushing back on the communist. We're advocating for that broader unity,

00:36:28.200 but we're not advocating for that on Sunday morning when it comes to the pew. We're not

00:36:35.740 advocating that um in the theological category we're saying you can overlook temporarily tertiary

00:36:41.980 and secondary issues you cannot even temporarily overlook primary disagreements at the end of the

00:36:49.240 day the divide between rome and protestants still exists and at the end of the day eventually when

00:36:57.400 we've pushed back the orcs then dwarves and elves you can decide which you know who gets to be who

00:37:04.780 protestants or catholics but the dwarves and elves still have their disagreements and they

00:37:09.080 matter they are still distinct and you're going to eventually have to hash that out now i i will

00:37:15.220 end by saying this we've said it publicly a few times but if you're new to the channel i want you

00:37:19.840 to hear this too my prayer for roman catholic friends is not that rome is utterly removed

00:37:28.120 but that it is rather restored. I hope that Rome is restored. And I'll go further than that. Not

00:37:37.580 only is it my hope, not only is it my aim, not only is it my prayer, but it's also my inclination.

00:37:44.760 It's what I lean towards. I think that if I had to guess, if I were a betting man,

00:37:52.120 I believe that in the providence of God, that the schism between Protestants and Catholics,

00:37:59.180 that God would prefer to reconcile, repent. You can't reconcile apart from repentance.

00:38:06.560 There are some things Protestants must repent of, by the way, and some things that Catholics

00:38:10.900 must repent of. But when I think of the heart of God, the nature of God, and the providence and

00:38:17.480 plan of God, I believe it's more likely, if I were to guess, that God plans to reconcile rather than

00:38:24.720 utterly remove one or the other. I think that it is possible, not because Protestants are so great

00:38:33.180 and not because Catholics are so great, but because God is so great and exceedingly kind,

00:38:39.040 I believe that it is possible for God to restore even a 500-year-old rift. I believe in the power

00:38:46.220 of the gospel, and the gospel, which is the power of God unto salvation, the power and potency for

00:38:53.000 the gospel to change even massive, massive divides, and to heal even gaping wounds. I actually believe

00:39:03.960 that that's possible, but until that happens, and that should be our aim, and that's our prayer,

00:39:09.040 but until that happens then no on sunday that is the one day a week where those distinctions

00:39:16.480 absolutely persist those differences absolutely matter and we can't pretend that they don't

00:39:24.540 but monday through saturday those six days of the week that's when protestants and especially some

00:39:31.160 of the reformed autistic bros have to stop dressing up in costumes and larping and trying

00:39:37.660 to relive the Reformation. I don't want another Reformed five solos tulip conference. We have

00:39:46.820 been running it back with that every year from every Reformed ministry forever, forever, for

00:39:55.380 half a millennia. It's enough. Right now, that is not the main topic of conversation. Right now,

00:40:03.960 the main topic the most urgent issue that we should be thinking about monday through saturday

00:40:09.440 is will we still have a country will my kids grow up in america um will will there be an economy

00:40:18.160 in six months you know like what what is going on um mass deportations must happen mass arrest

00:40:27.320 must happen these are the things that we should be working towards politically and culturally

00:40:32.760 monday through saturday and we need to receive and welcome every fighting man we can get whether

00:40:40.820 he's protestant catholic or eastern orthodox but you have to if you're catholic you need a catholic

00:40:47.420 church if you're protestant you need a protestant church if you're eo you need an eo church one day

00:40:53.940 a week on sunday and it needs to be somewhere that you can drive your family to weekly to

00:41:00.500 participate in communion with the people of god in the church and if you don't have that if you

00:41:07.860 don't have that then you either have to plant it or you have to move those are your options

00:41:14.720 Antonio any thoughts no well said I would just you know call back to the that we talked about

00:41:19.140 the dimensionality of church membership and the pragmatism involved in that you can just think

00:41:25.220 you know a loose analogy uh you think about relationally just with a friend the the more

00:41:30.320 distinctives you overlook there are trade-offs um you know the the less things you could do with

00:41:35.280 the friend if they're not interested in you know half as many things as another friend that friend

00:41:39.600 has a limiter scope uh you know in terms of things that you guys could find unity in and so very

00:41:45.740 similarly as we talk about you know protestant denominations and then we look at eo and catholicism

00:41:51.120 in comparison, what we're saying is there's more distinctives. And as a consequence, there's more

00:41:55.880 trade-offs, there's more friction, there's more chafing. And at some point, those things, just

00:42:01.100 thinking pragmatically, start to outweigh any potential benefit you would get from the thing.

00:42:08.120 So even if we just think very pragmatically, my conscience would be violated, theologically

00:42:13.940 speaking, but would I even be as close to these people as I would in a Protestant church? Probably

00:42:18.360 not. There's more distinctives. There's more trade-offs. Conversations, the things that you do

00:42:23.840 outside of church in the way that, going back to Wes's point, that the extent to which the church

00:42:29.300 actually, any activities transition into the week, the other six days of the week,

00:42:35.860 those things become more limited. And so we're talking about robust church membership. We're

00:42:40.440 talking about, pragmatically speaking, just finding good relations in the church and building

00:42:46.720 a life to the extent that you can in the church, those things are going to be more limited if you

00:42:52.600 violate that sort of those clear traditional distinctives of Catholicism, EO, and Protestantism.

00:42:58.000 So that's how I think about it. I would say well said.

00:43:00.500 Yep, that's well said. All right, let's go to, like I said, we're going to spend some extra time

00:43:04.480 with the Super Chats today. Let's go to our final commercial break. Remember, if you have a question

00:43:09.680 or comment and you want it to be read live on the air, then send it in as a Super Chat.

00:43:14.440 We are seeing, if you're ever wondering, I always put myself in the position of the viewer,

00:43:21.620 if you're actually watching the video on YouTube or X or whatever.

00:43:25.300 If you're ever wondering, why are their eyes doing this?

00:43:29.260 Why are they like, is there a butterfly in the room?

00:43:32.520 Is there a ghost?

00:43:33.880 Maybe a Nephilim or something that they're looking at.

00:43:37.020 We've got screens all over the room, and that's our way of being able to stay up with the chat.

00:43:42.040 Your chat is not in vain, I guess.

00:43:43.760 sometimes i don't think you guys even care because we're talking about something and you guys are

00:43:47.740 just arguing about something that has literally nothing to do with the topic whatsoever

00:43:50.940 we don't take offense and it just sounded like i take offense i really don't take offense that's

00:43:56.440 fine um you know so sometimes you guys are having your own powwow and you probably don't care if

00:44:00.760 we're watching or not but every single live stream we are watching so your comments and your questions

00:44:06.760 your chat is not in vain however we simply don't have time to get to every comment and every

00:44:13.520 question there are tons of them and so what we decided you know a few months back is we've got

00:44:18.900 to prioritize the people who are supporting this ministry so the super chats that's kind of the

00:44:24.820 unspoken agreement is and sometimes we i mean we've stayed on here doing super chats for over

00:44:30.160 an hour because we're going to get to every single one they're going to get read live on the air so

00:44:35.260 if you have a comment or you have a question and you want it to be addressed and read live on the

00:44:40.280 air send it as a super chat if it's not a super chat we're reading it throughout the show but

00:44:45.500 we're not going to be able to have time to address it because at this point we just have too many

00:44:49.700 super chats so that's what we're going to do again one last time if you're watching on youtube

00:44:53.460 subscribe click the bell if you're watching on x make sure that you follow us and that you also

00:44:58.800 click the bell we'll go to our last commercial break we'll come back in just a couple minutes

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00:47:37.040 All right, we're back.

00:47:38.100 Let's do the super chats.

00:47:39.220 First one is synced up, ready to go.

00:47:40.960 This is from King Jerd.

00:47:42.140 He gave us two bucks.

00:47:43.100 We appreciate that, King.

00:47:44.260 Thank you.

00:47:45.240 He said, why are our ortho bros?

00:47:47.460 so insufferable so he's talking about eastern orthodox why are the ortho bros so insufferable

00:47:53.240 his wording not mine just for the record i'll start by tipping the hat give a little bit of

00:47:59.640 credence to the ortho bros on patriarchy fantastic they're pretty good i mean if we're doing i you

00:48:08.520 know there's always some you know bad apples in every bunch but if we were doing uh percentages

00:48:15.440 and we take every protestant church in america and then we take every eastern orthodox church

00:48:22.620 in america and we say how many what percentage of the protestant churches in america are feminists

00:48:30.360 and then we say what percentage of the eastern orthodox churches in america currently right now

00:48:35.580 today are feminists uh well the eastern orthodox guys the ortho bros as we you know charitably

00:48:43.320 refer to them they're going to eat our lunch what percent of churches had a woman preach on sunday

00:48:48.680 right protestants orthodox correct orthodox would be zero essentially if we also said

00:48:54.360 sadly if we said what percentage of protestant churches and that includes the main lines

00:48:59.720 have a rainbow flag out front on the building zero orthodox zero protestants a lot more than

00:49:08.680 we would like to admit and not zero if we say okay well maybe culturally they're a little bit

00:49:13.740 more conservative normie albeit but somewhat conservative uh but they're teaching uh prosperity

00:49:19.840 gospel health wealth you know word of faith joel osteen joyce meyer you know all these benny hen

00:49:25.960 um protestant pretty rough pretty rough so i wanted to say that just to give a little bit

00:49:33.500 of credence and honestly one more um the ortho bros a high percentage of them are not zionist

00:49:41.200 they are uh j-pilled as the kids say you know they're red-pilled on the israel question they

00:49:48.620 are not dispensationalist we'll just say that uh they the ortho bros have uh shown far more

00:49:55.340 resilience to the power of schofield than the protestants have at least modern protestants

00:50:00.600 in america today so give them a little bit of credence tip the hat where it's due uh that said

00:50:07.800 in terms of insufferability well i i'll speak for myself here um there's the behavior aspect

00:50:16.880 disposition and you know kind of the way that some of them not all but some of them conduct

00:50:22.440 themselves online uh but then also if we're saying just the positions and some of their

00:50:27.660 you know just the way that they think and and some of the things that they might emphasize

00:50:33.340 um getting a little bit more doctrinal so not just disposition you know the way they behave

00:50:38.320 themselves online but doctrinal their position um i'll speak to that second part their position

00:50:44.860 doctrinal um aside from some of the the clear theological distinctions that we would have

00:50:52.040 between Protestants and E.O. Geist, there's just a general sense in which Eastern Orthodoxy is

00:50:59.820 precisely that. It is Eastern. It is not Western. The divide from Augustine, you know, these kinds

00:51:06.120 of things. And so I think part of, you know, the bristling that, you know, both Protestants and

00:51:12.780 Catholics in the West feel when it comes to our Eastern Orthodox friends is this sense of it's

00:51:20.480 it's foreign to the west eastern orthodoxy is foreign to the west it is not western and uh and

00:51:27.900 and so that's there's there's uh i heard someone once say uh he he kind of he called it the the

00:51:34.840 mr miyagi complex and he said you know part of what's happened in the west because of the post

00:51:40.540 war consensus because of you know two world wars you know in the west brother wars you know

00:51:46.460 Christians fighting against Christians, Europeans fighting against Europeans, and all the

00:51:54.240 deracination that came about as a result of that, one of the premier elements that we face in the

00:52:03.680 West is fatherlessness. It's this profound sense of young men feeling estranged from any kind of

00:52:14.140 father figure and and especially not not just including but especially spiritual fathers and

00:52:21.240 so the mr miyagi complex is the idea that you know if you ever watch the karate kids you know

00:52:25.940 you've got typical white boy in the 90s or maybe it was the 80s i can't remember when the films

00:52:30.440 were made but in that time period 80s 90s typical white boy who has an absent you know he's he

00:52:38.040 doesn't have a father and uh and so what happens well thanks to the heart seller act you know

00:52:43.880 there's uh mr miyagi you know and and they cross paths and mr miyagi he fills the void he fills

00:52:51.920 that role of a father he teaches him discipline he teaches him self-defense he teaches him hard work

00:52:59.040 he teaches him patience and concentration and all those kinds of things that typically the father

00:53:04.980 would play that role but because the father is missing then there's this older you know ancient

00:53:11.720 wise asian man who fills the father role and i do think that there's some element of that in the

00:53:20.240 west because we're deracinated because we're severed from spiritual fathers in the west

00:53:26.460 because of clear compromise both from catholics and from protestants for decades and decades now

00:53:34.360 there we've been vulnerable and and so for there to be this um this strong masculine presence

00:53:42.340 it's eastern so it feels foreign on the one hand it's not western it's eastern but it's still it's

00:53:49.300 strong on patriarchy it's strong against zionism and against feminism and some of these things

00:53:55.740 and it's distinctly masculine and feels fatherly although it's foreign on the one hand it's fatherly

00:54:03.780 on the other. And when you have a bunch, I mean, you have an entire generation of Western young

00:54:10.620 men who feel fatherless, then that's going to be appealing. I don't think that it's the long-term

00:54:17.640 solution for the West. I don't. I'm not Eastern Orthodox. I don't know what to tell you. I'm just

00:54:23.120 not. So I don't think it's a long-term solution, but I can see why there has been not just a slight

00:54:30.040 tick up let's be let's be honest um it's still the minority report here in the west eastern

00:54:35.720 orthodoxy but if you look at it in terms of where you know where it was even just 10 years ago and

00:54:42.620 where it is today um eastern orthodoxy its presence in the west and here in these united states has

00:54:49.260 grown exponentially over the last decade and i think it's largely because of this fatherless issue

00:54:56.600 that I've been espousing. I think that if that changes, if Protestants and Catholics get it

00:55:04.380 together and start producing a strong masculine ethos that fills that fatherless void for young

00:55:13.080 men in those traditions, then you'll see Eastern Orthodoxy start to kind of file back because it

00:55:21.040 is again at the end of the day foreign to the western experience so why are eo bros insufferable

00:55:28.740 well disposition behavior online that yo guys i mean let's just be honest they live online they're

00:55:34.100 not touching grass very often they live online so anybody who lives online um will feel insufferable

00:55:41.960 from time to time aside from that in terms of not disposition behavior but position aside from the

00:55:48.360 clear theological distinctives. There's just the overarching sense that it's foreign. It's Eastern.

00:55:54.540 We are Western. And I think that's part of what makes it feel insufferable. But I think there's

00:55:59.480 a reason why, despite the foreign element, it's still grown as much as it has over the last

00:56:06.240 decade in the West. And it's because the West is currently fatherless. And the Mr. Miyagi complex

00:56:12.780 is real. So that's my answer. Ready to go to the next one?

00:56:16.440 I was going to say, churches that did good during COVID got a boost.

00:56:20.540 And Eastern Orthodoxy, I think, got a lot of that boost for coming up on four or five years since COVID.

00:56:25.560 And some of the excitement is dying down.

00:56:27.540 Practically speaking, they are a very small percentage of churches in America.

00:56:31.400 That's not me being mean.

00:56:32.340 That's just objectively looking at the facts.

00:56:34.320 They're a small population.

00:56:35.600 They had a bit of a growth, but it seems to be tempering off.

00:56:38.580 And so we'll see how much staying power it has here.

00:56:41.420 Right.

00:56:41.700 All right.

00:56:41.960 Next one.

00:56:43.180 All right.

00:56:43.780 MN, I'm thinking that stands for Minnesota.

00:56:45.560 homesteading sent five dollars thanks for the five bucks question what is your current view

00:56:50.720 on pedo baptism and what would convince you to switch baptize your babies versus don't

00:56:55.780 also how much do you list dislike minnesota um that's a great question i love minnesota

00:57:01.300 but i don't love somalia and so unfortunately you love minnesota cheese curds cold weather

00:57:08.280 minnesota like minnesota 50 years ago don't you know right does that count is that minnesota like

00:57:14.180 minnesota nice isn't that like literally a midwest nice yeah yeah yeah i'm down for that people are

00:57:20.660 nice to you but it's negative 30 degrees right well here's the deal though like let's be honest

00:57:25.140 all of america is getting rocked by immigration but the fact that minnesota has gotten rocked

00:57:32.020 a little bit more should we say than others it might be precisely because of the minnesota

00:57:36.780 niceness that made them so uniquely vulnerable. So, yeah, I think I would have enjoyed visiting,

00:57:44.240 not living, but visiting Minnesota 50 years ago, certainly not today. And the Minnesota niceness,

00:57:49.920 they might need to make some adjustments to that because it might be why Minnesota has become

00:57:55.120 Somalia. To answer the question, pedo, credo, those kinds of things, over the years, I have

00:58:01.820 evolved. Um, I'm not going to sit here and pretend like I haven't. Um, I get it. I get it. There was

00:58:08.060 a time, you know, if you'd asked me five years ago, I mean, I think pretty much everybody knows

00:58:12.940 that my, my public facing persona on this issue of baptism has been very, let's, I think we can

00:58:20.420 say very pedo friendly, very infant baptism friendly. Um, most of my relationships at this

00:58:27.880 point are with paedo baptist if not pretty much all of them uh so i've been very friendly for a

00:58:35.020 while that's not a recent development i'd say for the last four years um i've i've been um i've had

00:58:41.820 a lot of respect for presbyterians anglicans you know you fill fill in the blank um yes it is true

00:58:49.420 I have not personally officially made the switch, but what I will say is the older I get,

00:58:57.400 I'm never going to care about anything less than the Bible. But the older I get, I start to care

00:59:03.340 about other things in addition to the Bible, in addition to the Bible. And I understand, you know,

00:59:09.940 when people are biblicists, which sounds like a compliment, that sounds like a win, that is not

00:59:15.180 the w that you think it is biblicism is a problem right it's just me and my bible i'm not a calvinist

00:59:22.080 i'm a biblicist you know i'm not arminian i'm a biblicist i um you think that's a brag uh it's

00:59:28.800 it's actually not um this is what i've realized and it took me a while to to get there but over

00:59:34.800 the last few years i've said it a number of times i'll say it again everybody is confessional it's

00:59:39.720 not whether but which everyone has a confession it's either a tried and true historic confession

00:59:44.440 that stood the test of time that was comprised and written by better wiser men than you or

00:59:52.960 it's your own ad hoc confession that you're subconsciously writing in your head as you go

00:59:59.920 along through life but everyone has a confession you do it's either pastor fred's confession

01:00:04.820 you know whatever whatever he thinks in the moment in your you know independent fundamental

01:00:10.280 Baptist Church or it's the Westminster Confession or the LBC Confession or whatever. So everybody

01:00:19.800 is confessional. The question is just, is it a good confession? Is it an old confession? Is it

01:00:26.520 a well-reasoned confession? And so the more I grow and the more I look at history, not substituting

01:00:34.060 the Bible for history, but the more I look at history alongside the Bible, and I'm weighing

01:00:38.700 both of these the bible being the only infallible the only infallible arbiter of truth but history

01:00:45.520 although not infallible still waiting it's still waiting when the vast majority of the church held

01:00:52.100 one particular position over and against the other for centuries and centuries and centuries

01:00:57.180 to slough that off and pretend as though that's not significant is foolish and so when i look at

01:01:03.640 history and then also as i've begun to care more deeply about politics and when i look at

01:01:10.720 national bonds and i look at um a national conception of the polis you know um and i think

01:01:19.120 of the ways that uh that that pedo-baptism and and and and that particular scheme of covenant

01:01:26.440 theology incorporates the whole national polis. I get it. I get it. So have I officially switched

01:01:36.700 teams? No, I have not. Will I? I don't know. I don't have an answer for you guys. I don't plan

01:01:43.840 on it. But do I understand? Am I sympathetic? Do I have a sneaking suspicion in the back of my mind

01:01:52.320 that there are profound reasons for the paedo position. And yeah, yeah, of course I do. I want

01:02:00.440 Protestants ultimately to come out on top. America was a Protestant nation. I would like it to remain

01:02:06.580 that way. I don't know. I don't know if that's going to happen, but I hope that it does. I will

01:02:11.740 admit if it does, if Protestants win, I do think that it will be paedo baptism. I think it'll be

01:02:20.280 some version, some Paedo-Baptist version, be it Anglican or Presbyterian or something

01:02:25.880 that ultimately wins the day. I understand that the SBC is the largest Protestant denomination

01:02:32.400 in America, but we've talked about this before. I'll say it again. I think part of the reason

01:02:38.260 why Baptist churches are as prevalent in America as they are is because they fit within the

01:02:45.660 american spirit they honestly it's the perfect church version embodiment of the american spirit

01:02:54.060 but here's what i mean by that i don't mean the american spirit that you and i know and love

01:02:59.140 i mean the worst of the american spirit i mean the rebellious american spirit where everything

01:03:06.920 is atomized. Everything is individual. Everything is severed. Just me and my land and my guns.

01:03:16.800 No king here. We have no sovereign here. No one's in authority. Yeah, we've done that in America

01:03:24.800 for a couple centuries now. IQ has gone down. Lifespans have gone down. Drag queen story hour

01:03:32.340 has gone up. I don't, I mean, at what point can we say the verdict has come back in and that our

01:03:40.980 independent spirit might have just been a euphemism for a rebellious spirit? Americans

01:03:48.440 hate authority. And I think Baptists on the ecclesiastical side of the aisle embody that

01:03:56.960 particular element of the American spirit, namely a hatred of authority, better than pretty much

01:04:03.160 any Christian expression, any denomination in the nation. And I don't know if that's a good thing.

01:04:11.560 And when I look at Baptists as a whole, I have some great Baptist brothers who share a lot of

01:04:18.200 alignment with me. But if I look at Baptists on the whole, most Baptists are retarded. I mean,

01:04:25.540 even just like seriously i'm saying that you know um facetiously you know using the r word in in a

01:04:32.640 facetious way but honestly like even if we were to to use it in the technical sense if we if we

01:04:38.620 were to speak of that um i mean you you measure the average iq of the average baptist pastor and

01:04:47.680 then pair it up with the average iq of the average anglican pastor presbyterian pastor lutheran

01:04:53.300 pastor i mean guys that's just i love baptist i am a baptist but let's let's be honest um

01:05:00.940 baptist is kind of like uh i don't know it's it's kind of like the uh the lightweight

01:05:06.420 you know championship like who you know who's the best fighter under 100 pounds featherweight

01:05:12.060 you know featherweight championship um that's just that's what it is it's like it's it's kind

01:05:18.760 of a blue-collar anti-intellectualism, anti-authority, anti-partnership, anti-facts and

01:05:29.180 logic, anti-reason. I mean, it's just, it's not great. It's not great. And I'm willing to admit

01:05:36.700 it. And I pastor a Baptist church. I still hold to those convictions, but I'm at the point now

01:05:43.580 where the best answer I can give you to this question is, I'm certainly not going to fight

01:05:49.420 about it. I'm certainly not going to make that the centerpiece of my ministry and my theological

01:05:56.200 convictions. I'm not going to say, you know, Joel Webin, you know, what are the top, you know,

01:06:02.520 100 things that you're fighting for? Credo baptism would not make the list, not even the top 100.

01:06:10.280 it wouldn't make the list. And so I, and I think that's kind of, honestly, I think that's in line

01:06:17.120 with the whole title of this episode, the whole point of this episode. Mode of baptism is a

01:06:24.060 secondary theological issue because that's what we're talking about at the end of the day. People

01:06:29.180 will say, well, baptism, you know, that's primary. No, it's not because we're not talking about

01:06:33.220 baptism. We're talking about mode of baptism. It's mode of baptism. In every case, we are

01:06:42.020 assuming that we are baptizing someone with water in the name of the Father and of the Son and of

01:06:49.140 the Holy Spirit. So we're talking about a water baptism into the name of the triune God. A

01:06:57.080 christian church baptizing an individual with water into the name of the triune god we're like

01:07:04.720 we're not debating that we're not talking about some alternative to that so it's all within that

01:07:10.820 frame and then the question is simply is it immersion or is it pouring sprinkling is it

01:07:18.900 after conversion or after someone says they're converted i mean let's be honest how many baptists

01:07:26.160 have been baptized two, three, four, five, six times, right?

01:07:31.660 I mean, how many Baptist kids have been baptized every year

01:07:35.960 at their Christian camp, you know, summer camp?

01:07:39.360 You know, they're a senior in high school,

01:07:41.380 and they're looking forward to their 12th baptism.

01:07:44.440 So were they all post-conversion, right?

01:07:48.440 I mean, that's the whole idea of credo baptism

01:07:50.100 is believer's baptism.

01:07:52.840 Baptists, honestly, I mean, let's just be honest.

01:07:55.180 Baptists probably baptize just as many unregenerate people as paedo-Baptists do,

01:08:02.880 if we're being honest. Now, I understand that intent still matters. The Baptist is at least

01:08:08.080 attempting to baptize a believer, whereas infant baptism, they're not, right? So I'm not going to

01:08:14.900 pretend that that difference doesn't exist in terms of the difference of intent. But my point

01:08:20.560 is its mode of baptism. It's not baptism wholesale. It's mode of baptism. Both are baptizing with

01:08:27.440 water. Both are baptizing someone that they believe is a part of the new covenant, right?

01:08:32.920 Whether it's their new covenant, but not yet regenerate, decretal elect versus just the new

01:08:38.840 covenant being broader, stretching broader than that. And both are, of course, baptizing into the

01:08:43.740 name of the triune God. And so because of those things, it is, whether people want to admit it or

01:08:49.800 not. It is a secondary theological issue. And because it's secondary and because I believe that

01:08:55.620 these arguments are the luxury of Christendom when it's victorious and not a luxury that we

01:09:03.920 can afford when Christendom is on the ropes, then it's just not going to be a major emphasis

01:09:11.280 of my focus or my ministry.

01:09:16.580 And so that's why I've kind of been resolved

01:09:21.420 to hold my peace, stay where I am,

01:09:25.460 be very friendly in my partnerships across the aisle,

01:09:29.640 and just not talk about it all the time.

01:09:33.700 Yep.

01:09:34.340 Any thoughts from you guys with that?

01:09:38.680 That was good.

01:09:39.660 Okay.

01:09:39.960 That was good.

01:09:40.260 We've got a civilization to save.

01:09:42.740 Yeah, we've got a civilization to save.

01:09:44.720 All right, Wes, you take the next one.

01:09:46.940 All right, Cody Lee Galleon sent $5.

01:09:49.380 Thank you, Cody.

01:09:50.460 Any examples of nations that went multicultural

01:09:52.760 that were able to regain their national identity?

01:09:55.580 Just want to know your opinion.

01:09:58.820 Antonio, you might have some examples in mind.

01:10:00.780 I'm going to be honest, true multiculturalism.

01:10:03.020 I don't think it's, it's really tough to find in history

01:10:05.800 um a good example of what's happened in the west in the last century that's what i was going to say

01:10:11.520 globalism is what we're talking about yeah and has globalism been defeated before no because

01:10:17.020 we're talking about cultures so like russia for instance before and during the communist revolution

01:10:21.160 russia contained a number of different ethnicities and cultures right ukraine versus the northern

01:10:25.800 parts of russia there was distinct people that had distinct ways of life that all kind of shared a

01:10:30.140 country together but practically the difference between a ukrainian and someone in russia they

01:10:35.920 were much smaller right common ancestry typically common language common economy when we're talking

01:10:41.580 about and what cody's talking about here with multicultural uh is india and america and

01:10:46.720 honestly the only thing that has made that possible mass air travel global financial markets

01:10:51.220 and globalism those haven't been done before so i don't know of an example let alone in

01:10:55.940 and democracy democracy yep the incentive to import those people i don't think that that's

01:11:01.680 happened even the examples you could say for example like uh germany like practically speaking

01:11:05.720 immigration went low there's still 80 to 90 percent in german nobody's reached the point

01:11:09.760 where they're 60 50 percent of your founding stock is the only thing that's left after a

01:11:13.940 mass immigration a matter of a couple generations right it's just happened so quick and so

01:11:18.380 intentionally that it's really it's really difficult to find an analogy even a loose

01:11:22.800 analogy in history that we can, you know, learn from really. So, yeah, it's tough. I would say

01:11:30.260 as a matter of history, just generally speaking, the regaining of a national identity without scars

01:11:37.140 feels very unlikely to me. I mean, it's just as a matter of history, as history unfolds,

01:11:42.440 whatever emerges out of this multicultural West that we have will be distinct if only because

01:11:48.620 it's scarred by multiculturalism itself, it will feel distinct from the national identities that

01:11:55.600 were previous to the sort of globalistic regime. And so it's really tough to know what that will

01:12:01.900 look like. But I'm white-pilled. I think what we're doing and a lot of what we talk about is

01:12:08.140 actually kind of trying to articulate what that recapture would look like. There's no great

01:12:12.740 playbook for it and so we really are in a lot of in a lot of ways thinking on our feet as as as the

01:12:18.980 consequence and one other thing i'll just say is that i've i've i have a sense that the consequences

01:12:24.060 of globalism haven't even fully materialized yeah again because it's so new we are like daily

01:12:29.960 things are popping up that that it's like oh okay that's another terrible case in point of why this

01:12:37.980 system is terrible so so we're thinking on our feet we're trying to figure out what the what

01:12:41.720 what these problems are what exactly we're trying to fight and so it's it's going to be tough to

01:12:46.520 to look in history and find some some playbook yeah you're right i can think of one historical

01:12:52.420 example where everybody tried to be you know in one place the same place and you know and partner

01:13:01.340 together um and and not be distinct and not spread out um and it would be the tower of babel

01:13:09.580 that's kind of the example that i think of god hated it god judged them for it uh confused their

01:13:16.940 languages made the distinctions exasperated to the point where they could not stay together

01:13:23.700 even if they tried and my my prediction would be that something similar would happen um not in a

01:13:32.020 supernatural or preternatural sort of way uh but but a providential sort of way i think that um

01:13:39.300 um i think that uh that you know that that we will you know mankind failed the first time

01:13:46.740 in its attempt to build a tower that stretched to the heavens that rivaled god to make a name

01:13:52.500 for himself so that he would not be scattered over the face of the earth um it failed the first time

01:13:57.920 and i think it'll fail this time as well i mean what we're living in in the west is basically

01:14:03.900 just a modern um modern tower of babel we we have essentially um humored ourselves into thinking that

01:14:12.580 our advancements in technology somehow um can overcome natural distinctions um to the point

01:14:20.980 where we no longer have to have distinct nations and distinct peoples and uh that we can you know

01:14:28.520 this time it's a digital tower, you know, whether it's, you know, uh, AI or whatever,

01:14:33.780 fill in the blank, but we're doing it again. We're building a tower, um, and saying, Hey,

01:14:38.260 we can all be in the same place and do the same thing all together. And I think we're already

01:14:44.760 finding that, uh, that it's, that it doesn't work. And, um, and I think ultimately the tower will

01:14:51.500 collapse. The question is, uh, you know, this time, what will become of the people? Will, uh,

01:14:57.420 will the people be dispersed in God's kindness? Because the Tower of Babel was a judgment,

01:15:03.060 but it was a judgment wrapped around a mercy. There was a kindness there because there's two

01:15:11.240 options really of what could happen. God in his kindness can disperse the people and then the

01:15:17.460 tower falls later. Or God can not disperse the people. They can remain there, be determined in

01:15:26.400 their hubris to build this tower that rivals god to make a name for themselves and the tower

01:15:32.760 collapses while they're still all a part of this building project and the people are destroyed

01:15:37.820 with it and so that's that's my question is just um will we destroy ourselves with ai or this that

01:15:47.100 or the other with you know the the next babble project uh that globalism is trying to accomplish

01:15:53.540 or will the distinctions, the natural distinctions that God has set,

01:15:58.520 will they prove to be insurmountable to the point that we'll give up the project

01:16:04.140 and everyone goes their own way and separates once more,

01:16:10.040 goes home and abandons the project but at least spares their life?

01:16:14.280 I think that's the only question.

01:16:18.380 But that third option of we come together, we stay together, we build a tower,

01:16:22.920 or it does stretch to the heavens,

01:16:24.120 we make a name for ourselves and we rival God,

01:16:26.560 I can guarantee you that that will not be the result.

01:16:28.740 Yeah, that's well said.

01:16:29.820 A couple examples popped in my head

01:16:31.440 just as you were talking.

01:16:33.000 And I think all of them end

01:16:34.360 in some kind of geographic fragmentation.

01:16:37.740 You can think of Central and Western Europe

01:16:40.100 in the 19th century.

01:16:41.040 So think about the kingdom of Prussia.

01:16:42.740 And you have all of these different people.

01:16:44.560 You have the Serbians,

01:16:45.400 you have the Austrians and the Germans

01:16:48.360 and all of these distinct ethnic groups

01:16:51.100 with their own cultural distinctives

01:16:52.720 kind of living under one banner, one national banner, you could say. And I think just the

01:16:58.600 reality of it, and the Tower of Babel is a great biblical example of it, is that when you try to

01:17:03.960 artificially bring together ethnic groups, what you're doing is fighting against nature.

01:17:09.600 It truly is like fighting gravity, like you're launching a rocket, and you have to expend so

01:17:15.420 much energy to pull these people together. And at some point in history, and we see this in

01:17:20.800 history, you just see fragmentation. It's just like, oh, can't hold it together anymore. And if

01:17:25.660 I had to go and make a prediction, and I'm not saying in the short term, this could be 50 years,

01:17:29.220 it could be 100 years, I think what you're looking, sadly, and this isn't exactly what I want,

01:17:34.260 but I think what we're up against in the West, and particularly here in the United States,

01:17:37.940 is geographic fragmentation. I think just having, you know, this massive land mass where it's one

01:17:44.160 nation and all of these different ethnic distinctives living in it, even if you just

01:17:48.040 think about the white population you think about the midwest you think about the south and the

01:17:51.880 east coast uh they're distinct and so it's it just as time progresses it's going to be increasingly

01:17:57.320 hard even to hold these groups together um and so that's just that's my prediction i think that's

01:18:03.040 probably the likely conclusion of this um but uh but again it's a it's a something we're figuring

01:18:08.420 out day to day year to year yep all right uh located goose he gave us another ten dollar

01:18:14.260 super chat we appreciate that he said please speak more to how we are to honor our parents

01:18:18.500 i have a mother-in-law who actively schemes to drive my wife's heart to discontentment i need

01:18:25.080 to make stronger boundaries but i want to honor her well that's a good a good sentiment that you

01:18:30.560 want to honor her but also a good sentiment that you need some boundaries if she is disrupting the

01:18:36.680 unity of your marriage then that's a problem we will do more of that in the future i think that

01:18:41.000 That was a hit that a lot of people were blessed by that.

01:18:44.400 I've got a lot of good response.

01:18:46.160 But because we did a super chat on that,

01:18:50.240 I believe just on Wednesday, our last live stream.

01:18:53.920 And I was fairly thorough.

01:18:56.020 I think I probably spent 20 minutes or so on it.

01:19:00.400 I think since we just hit it,

01:19:03.100 I don't want to hit it again right afterwards today.

01:19:06.060 But what I would do is I would reference you

01:19:08.040 back to last week's stream.

01:19:09.420 so it would have been during the third segment with the super chats and one other thing that

01:19:13.500 i think we could do is um perhaps uh nathan and john um on our our tech side with right response

01:19:22.940 ministries maybe they could clip that out just so that it's a it's a video that stands alone and we

01:19:29.180 could we could post that on youtube and x maybe over the weekend or on monday early next week

01:19:35.900 week just so that it's more accessible and easier to find and hopefully it gets more views and more

01:19:42.180 people see it so maybe if we give that a catchy thumbnail and a catchy title and just make it its

01:19:47.620 own standalone 20 minute video but I definitely covered I was pretty thorough covered a lot of

01:19:53.000 bases and so is there more to say on the topic absolutely but because I was pretty thorough and

01:20:00.100 we did it just on Wednesday I don't want to dive in for another 20 minutes on it today

01:20:04.920 but we'll hit the topic I'm sure again in the future because that is an issue that is sadly

01:20:11.480 not going away. So our next one is from Anfuan. He gave us $5. We appreciate that. He said the

01:20:17.520 easiest question. I was reading the head here. This one is I think really insightful. So first

01:20:22.860 let me just say Anfuan you nailed it. This is really well said. I'll read it. Here we go.

01:20:28.540 The easiest question to snuff out fake America first politicians. Guys because guys are going

01:20:34.800 to start using it in the same way that never trumpers all of a sudden became maga when they

01:20:39.340 could you know see which direction the wind was was blowing you know and like um you're gonna see

01:20:45.000 it you're gonna see it with america first i think america first is going to replace uh maga and so

01:20:51.780 you will see the opportunist all of a sudden who are fighting it tooth and nail every step of the

01:20:56.240 way uh as soon as it gets the upper hand and it becomes clear that america first is inevitable

01:21:01.580 and America First is inevitable,

01:21:04.360 then the same guys who were completely opposing the movement

01:21:09.120 will turn around, run out in front of the movement,

01:21:12.880 and pretend that they engineered the parade.

01:21:15.360 That's what they do.

01:21:16.460 That's what they always do.

01:21:18.320 So how will you be able to distinguish?

01:21:21.020 How will you be able to discern who is America First in name only?

01:21:27.380 Well, Anne Fawn says,

01:21:28.640 the best question to ask to snuff out fake America first politicians is simple. Do they

01:21:35.460 think the crucifixion of our Lord was worse than the Holocaust? I think that's well said.

01:21:42.800 Yeah. Was it Andrew Clavin who recently went semi-viral for a clip where he was basically

01:21:49.840 talking about how the Holocaust was another crucifixion? He said it a little tongue-in-cheek.

01:21:56.480 he came back and clarified later and kind of gave a little bit of a disclaimer but he said something

01:22:01.040 to the effect of the holocaust in Auschwitz they were kind of a reenactment in case you missed it

01:22:06.220 the first time and crazily enough john piper even said that back in the day in an article

01:22:10.560 on Auschwitz that something that it was very similar to the crucifixion that's because it

01:22:15.720 at this point has become a religious conviction yeah it's not just uh history or facts it is a

01:22:21.800 religiously held idea and uh that question the second someone pauses or they have to kind of

01:22:28.500 repeat it a second time slowly while they gather their thoughts oh yeah not okay have you seen the

01:22:33.520 viral video of the i think it was a jewish rabbi who said something the effect of they killed

01:22:38.060 one jew you should think the holocaust is way worse because they killed well and and not just

01:22:43.580 that he said i i know exactly what you're talking about with some some rabbi um who said he basically

01:22:50.300 he said uh not just the holocaust but even in in a present tense that it's ongoing and continual he

01:22:57.140 said uh he said christians should have no problem you know christians should love jews you know they

01:23:01.620 should be you know they should be the most pro-israel people in the world because he said

01:23:06.040 after all you worship a jew who saved you the christians by his blood and he said but the

01:23:13.340 reality is that that jews are dying and bleeding every day to save you and the point that he was

01:23:20.440 making is basically uh it's like you hear that it's blasphemous right he's like he basically is

01:23:26.500 equating every single jewish person to the status of our lord and savior jesus christ the son son

01:23:32.140 of god saying you're not just saved by the blood of jesus the god man but you're saved by jews and

01:23:38.600 Jesus is just one of them.

01:23:40.300 But every day, Jews are bleeding to save you.

01:23:42.940 So number one, absolutely blasphemous.

01:23:45.640 This rabbi is, I mean, the hottest,

01:23:49.240 the hottest place in hell reserved for this man

01:23:52.180 unless he repents of his sin

01:23:53.920 and says Christ is Lord before he dies.

01:23:57.860 So just absolutely wicked.

01:24:00.040 I hate to even repeat it because it's so blasphemous.

01:24:03.200 I feel like I need to tear my ropes.

01:24:05.220 I think the words he literally said

01:24:06.020 was you should be worshiping us.

01:24:07.480 yes he said we're saving you should be worshiping us right but the final thing i wanted to add to

01:24:13.020 that so you're right that that happened uh crazy but that happened love it um but but the final

01:24:18.200 point i wanted to make is is blasphemous as that is um let's be honest that it it really wasn't

01:24:26.100 that unique when i thought about it when i when i reflected at first it was just kind of shock

01:24:30.160 like i can't believe he said this uh but when i thought about it in retrospect a little bit more

01:24:35.320 I realized this is actually the position. They wouldn't use those words, those who at least

01:24:42.680 profess to be Christian. Guys who profess to be Christian typically know better than to use those

01:24:49.660 words, unless you're Andrew Clavin. But they wouldn't put it in those words, so it wouldn't

01:24:56.580 be as blasphemous on its face. But the concept, the principle, is actually, I would say, it's the

01:25:04.060 majority report it is it is the general consensus of of every zionist dispensational christian

01:25:13.500 every neocon conservative christian and what i mean by that is it you tell me if i'm crazy but

01:25:20.940 isn't the general consensus on the political side so they want to put it into they want to

01:25:26.340 throw jesus in there and say every jew is like just as great as jesus and blah blah they want

01:25:31.140 to use as much of the religious language but politically speaking um they absolutely the

01:25:36.840 average the average zionist gop conservative republican who claims to be a christian

01:25:43.320 spiritually religiously um will constantly use this line of reasoning they'll say the reason why

01:25:49.700 america must must not abandon our greatest ally israel is because israel is sacrificing for us

01:25:58.140 Israel is on the front lines in the Middle East holding the Muslims at bay like they literally

01:26:06.020 they they they speak as though imagine like you know like it's Gondor or something like that you

01:26:12.040 know or or Helm's Deep you know and just being attacked by this hordes of orcs and and they

01:26:19.620 basically act as though the inner circle the inner city is the West America you know France

01:26:27.740 england um but the gates the gates is uh israel and the only reason we don't have

01:26:35.820 more islamic presence in the west and more islamic conflict in the west and we'll just

01:26:44.500 say america because we're in america is because um it's being mitigated at the source in the

01:26:51.280 middle east by israel um but that is that is just so far from the truth just a little bit of research

01:26:59.800 uh and and what you'll see i'm just gonna say it i'm just gonna say it in every single time

01:27:05.220 situation here um there are two types of jews there are conservative jews that are you know

01:27:13.620 if they're here in america you know they would be part of the gop they would vote republican those

01:27:18.260 And same thing in Israel. There are conservative Jews and there are liberal Jews. But this is how

01:27:23.440 the two work in tandem. Conservative Jews start wars in the Middle East with Muslim nations that

01:27:32.660 disenfranchise them and cause them to have to leave. Then liberal Jews in the West,

01:27:40.980 holding political office, congressmen, senators, whatever, lawmakers in America,

01:27:46.460 they then write the policies and get them enacted to then take all these Muslim displaced refugees

01:27:54.040 into our Western countries. So conservative Jews displace Muslims in the Middle East.

01:28:00.980 Liberal Jews open the doors of Toledo to let the Muslims in to the West. Israel is not mitigating

01:28:09.100 the Muslim invasion in America. Israel is facilitating the Muslim invasion in America.

01:28:18.060 So one, it's just politically, factually false on its face that Israel is a great ally that merits

01:28:26.780 our support because they're helping us face the Muslim problem on the ground at the front gate

01:28:34.140 in the Middle East before it gets to us. No, they're actually causing it to get to us faster

01:28:40.180 and in greater numbers. So it's first wrong like that. And even if they were right,

01:28:46.420 even if they were mitigating Muslim Islamic invasion in the West to compare, therefore,

01:28:53.620 Jews and their sacrifice and some of those who have died, October 7th, whatever it is,

01:28:58.380 to the blood of Jesus that actually eternally saves men from hell saves them from their sin

01:29:05.080 and say well you worship one Jew why not worship all Jews because Jesus isn't the only Jew who

01:29:11.240 bled and died to save you there are Jews who are bleeding and dying to save you every day

01:29:16.160 well that is not only factually wrong so I already said politically why it's wrong well that's just

01:29:22.000 saying hey since we're already politically and historically wrong about Jews and the way that

01:29:26.560 they serve western countries uh well let's go ahead and be wrong spiritually as well with a

01:29:31.380 just a dash of blasphemy on top um and just you know like why not just be shameless and uh and

01:29:39.280 just atrocious in our rhetoric so um that's one of those situations where i gotta say i absolutely

01:29:45.180 hate it absolutely hate it um that will not be tolerated um and if that makes me anti-semitic

01:29:52.760 to say that that kind of rhetoric

01:29:55.420 is

01:29:57.200 blasphemous,

01:29:59.780 disgusting,

01:30:01.620 and also politically

01:30:03.280 and historically false on its

01:30:05.540 face. If that makes me anti-Semitic,

01:30:08.780 then

01:30:08.980 I'm an anti-Semite.

01:30:12.300 So be it. Okay,

01:30:13.440 next one. Yep, J.D. Peabody

01:30:15.760 sent $10. We greatly appreciate

01:30:17.440 that and says, happy Friday to Right

01:30:19.400 Response Ministries and everyone in the chat.

01:30:21.480 Christ is king.

01:30:22.760 America first. Amen. Amen to that. Next one, Wild Card sent $2 and says, thank you for your

01:30:30.180 ministry. And then there's a chat attached here that says, I'm in the Bible belt, but all the

01:30:35.140 churches in my area seem to be beholden to the modern world. For instance, every church closed

01:30:40.260 down for COVID. My question with that would be how long? How long? To close down for COVID at all,

01:30:49.160 I think was a failure. And I've said this publicly several times, which I think is one of the reasons

01:30:55.100 why people are willing to follow this ministry. Not because I'm right about everything all the

01:31:00.520 time, but because sadly, the distinction between pastors and politicians, the line between pastors

01:31:09.360 and politicians is virtually, doesn't even exist these days, right? If that was a Venn diagram,

01:31:15.740 you got politicians on one side and then you got pastors on the other that's just a circle

01:31:19.760 and what I mean by that is both pastors modern pastors and modern politicians one thing

01:31:27.120 common denominator that both of them do relentlessly is they never ever ever admit

01:31:33.660 when they're wrong they will actually change they'll change with public sentiment they'll

01:31:37.800 change not with the science but with the political science so as the winds change they will change

01:31:44.140 um but when they change they they'll just like face like flint they'll never admit it and they'll

01:31:51.660 just they'll just they'll do it and do it and and never admit the change until until you and i just

01:32:00.240 forget you know and um and i i hate that i hate treating people as though they're so stupid that

01:32:07.700 they can't recognize hey you know you might have noticed that uh what i'm saying today is the exact

01:32:13.480 opposite of what I said three years ago or five years ago or whatever. And I find that disgusting.

01:32:21.540 And so my point is, with those churches, I would encourage you, one, how long did they close? I

01:32:29.440 think to close it all was a mistake. But one of the reasons people follow me is because I've been

01:32:35.120 willing to admit my mistakes. And here it is, one of my mistakes. Granted, we were in California

01:32:40.020 at the time, pastoring a church there. There were extra restrictions. It was one of the most

01:32:46.220 difficult states to be in during the COVID lockdowns. But at the end of the day, I have to

01:32:51.020 admit that's still no excuse. We shut down our church for four weeks. So one, I would ask how

01:32:58.380 long did they shut down their church? 11 months, year and a half, or four weeks? There is a

01:33:04.960 difference. Both are wrong, but not equally wrong. Second, and this one's even bigger, bigger than

01:33:10.840 how long did you shut down during COVID? A bigger one is when you reopened, was there ever any public

01:33:17.640 acknowledgement from the pastor that he did the wrong thing, that he messed up? Because my first

01:33:25.480 sermon, when we reopened after closing for only four weeks in California, and we got kicked out

01:33:30.340 of our building. But here's the deal. We could have met in the field. We could have made it

01:33:36.740 happen. So it's not just we couldn't make it happen. I'd love to say that. I'd love to say

01:33:41.880 that. I'd love to say I did no wrong. But here's the deal. More than having people respect me,

01:33:47.060 you know what I really want, life goal, really want? To not go to hell. That's what I really

01:33:52.160 want. Like Joel Webbins, greatest life goal, not going to hell, which means at the end of the day,

01:33:57.580 if I lose respect from people, what I can't afford to lose is God's good graces. What I

01:34:03.440 can't afford to lose is a clear conscience before the Lord. And so I have to just call a spade a

01:34:08.560 spade and I have to admit my mistakes if I actually made them. The reality is that we didn't have a

01:34:14.200 church building. We were renting from a public school. We got kicked out of our space. There's

01:34:17.500 all these things. But if I had resolve and I had pure conviction and I made the right decision

01:34:28.260 from the start, then we would have found a way to do church if it was in somebody's home,

01:34:33.120 if it was in somebody's backyard, if it was in a field. But we still closed down for four weeks

01:34:38.800 because I was wrong. But here's the deal. By God's grace and only by God's grace is not to boast in

01:34:46.500 me, when we did reopen my first sermon to the church, the first half of it was me apologizing

01:34:55.280 for making the wrong decision and using the scripture, using the scripture and preaching

01:35:02.100 a sermon from the scripture to explain why the decision to close our church for four weeks

01:35:09.140 was a sinful decision, why it was the wrong decision. And so that would be my question.

01:35:15.440 As you're looking at churches, I mean, your overarching point is well taken, and you're right.

01:35:22.960 The church in general is just modern, limp-wristed, effeminate, and compromised. Absolutely.

01:35:30.380 But if you're using as your sole metric for making that assessment, how churches, local churches in

01:35:38.240 your area responded specifically to COVID and just a pass-fail system of did they close or did they

01:35:44.540 not. And well, they all closed. So therefore, all of them are faithless. I would add a little

01:35:50.740 nuance to that. And I would say they all closed. So therefore, yes, they all sinned. They all missed

01:35:56.320 it. They all messed up. But then the question is, for the Christian, is not if he's sinless,

01:36:02.980 if he never messes up, but does he repent? And the same context where the failure occurred is

01:36:09.740 the same context where the repentance must occur. So to shut down the church is a public failure.

01:36:16.380 It's not a private failure behind closed doors. You publicly failed. And so therefore, when you

01:36:23.500 right the ship, when you fix the mistake, your repentance needs to be public. So when those

01:36:32.140 churches reopened, that would be the repentance in action, in deed. We closed, that was the wrong

01:36:38.440 action. We're opening. That's the right action. But true repentance is both in the same context

01:36:44.360 where the sin occurred. So if it's a public sin, like closing the church, it needs to be a public

01:36:49.500 repentance. And if it's true repentance, it also must be repentance in deed and in word.

01:36:55.860 Deed and in word. So not just shifting on a dime, pivoting on a dime in terms of the action. The

01:37:02.520 action we close the church now the action is we open the church but also saying it say it say it

01:37:09.840 don't just change your actions when you realize that you know public sentiment is shifting you

01:37:15.480 know and and the opinion the consensus is changing but also name it and say hey guys you might notice

01:37:22.540 um that four weeks ago four months ago whatever it was we sent out an email and said we're not

01:37:28.540 having church for this reason and that reason and that reason. And today we are having church

01:37:32.640 and that's the complete opposite decision. And I'm not going to sit here and treat you all as

01:37:39.020 though you're stupid, that you can't comprehend that we did one thing and we're now doing the

01:37:44.460 exact opposite. I'm going to give you a little more respect than that. You might notice we're

01:37:49.600 doing the complete opposite. So here's why. Here's an easy way to reconcile these two

01:37:54.920 directly contradicting decisions. The way to reconcile it is this. One decision was wrong.

01:38:01.180 I was wrong. This decision is right. Please forgive me. That's all it takes. That's all it takes.

01:38:10.120 Walk in the light as he is in the light. We will have fellowship with one another, and the blood

01:38:14.680 of Jesus Christ, his son, will cleanse us from all sin. That's 1 John 1, verse 7. Notice, to walk in

01:38:23.540 the light is not to walk in sinless perfection. No one achieves sinless perfection in this life.

01:38:29.500 Only Jesus was truly sinless. To walk in the light is to walk exposed, to walk honestly,

01:38:36.900 to walk truthfully. So it's not walking without any faults. It's walking in such a way that we

01:38:43.660 still sin, but we're honest with our faults. But notice the result. If, right, there's a condition.

01:38:49.180 if we walk in the light as he is in the light, then what's the result? Then we have fellowship

01:38:55.000 with one another. One of the major hindrances of unity and relationship and fellowship

01:39:01.800 is the refusal to walk in the light, which is a refusal to repent, a refusal to apologize,

01:39:10.100 a refusal to be honest about our faults. So I would be looking not, I would not make my standard,

01:39:17.420 it must be a church that never closed down at all i would make my standard well is it a church that

01:39:23.040 closed down for a year or for a couple months there is a difference there and then the biggest

01:39:27.980 question is and when they reopened what did they say did they ever own it did they ever admit that

01:39:35.300 they messed up hey that guy admitted it i would follow you all the way to mordor um that that's

01:39:42.660 a guy that i'll fall i will follow a a flawed man who is a humble and honest man so look for that

01:39:51.240 now if you can't even find that in your area then see point a all the way back to the beginning of

01:39:56.680 this episode then you either got to plant a church but only if you're biblically qualified to do so

01:40:01.540 and if you're not and don't feel called to do that then you have to relocate your family to find a

01:40:08.400 church somewhere else because the third option of being churchless is not an option you are not

01:40:14.680 permitted by god to be a lone ranger christian you must participate in the body of christ and you

01:40:21.800 have to make it happen one way or another all right let's read the next one all right we have

01:40:26.600 20 super chats still left oh my goodness okay we'll go fast hhs 9045 what is your advice to

01:40:33.040 pastors and members of the CBA, formerly

01:40:35.220 ARBCA, Texas Area Reformed

01:40:37.060 Baptist Churches,

01:40:38.440 TABCA,

01:40:40.620 Texas Area

01:40:43.300 Reformed Baptist Churches,

01:40:44.780 or RBS who strictly subscribe to the 1689

01:40:47.480 London Baptist Confession of Faith.

01:40:49.500 I'm not really sure what the question is.

01:40:51.140 If you're in that denomination, you're a pastor in that denomination,

01:40:54.020 there's nothing wrong with that.

01:40:55.460 I mean, we're convictionally Baptists

01:40:56.920 subscribed to the 1689. I think keeping

01:40:59.220 it on topic, so culturally,

01:41:01.020 those organizations they probably are not where right response is you're sitting here listening

01:41:05.500 i'm assuming you probably align more with us than like a tom hicks would for example so as much as

01:41:10.240 possible i think stay on topic church preaching administering the sacraments being reformed

01:41:15.640 baptists doing reformed baptist things and then outside of that any political or business

01:41:20.180 aspirations that you have yeah yep okay uh next one antonio chase uh cormick sent ten dollars and

01:41:27.340 says, how important are the congregants of the church you attend as far as influence and possible

01:41:32.440 suitors for young adult children? So this is something I think we've talked about doing a

01:41:37.660 further deep dive on in terms of arranged marriages, what that has looked like historically,

01:41:45.040 and what that would look like today. Obviously, it's not a common thing today, but it's certainly

01:41:52.800 something that we we talk about church the church you attend the church you want to move to that

01:41:57.740 being a consideration who are my children going to marry are children being raised up in this church

01:42:02.700 that I I can respect and I see their development and I see how they're parented and all of these

01:42:08.500 things are things that you should consider in terms of the church that you attend and the the

01:42:14.200 kinds of people that make up the church and so but I think well I think we'd like to do a deeper

01:42:19.000 dive on this and what specific applications there would be for so many people who are asking this

01:42:24.760 very question. Yeah, absolutely. But the short answer is it's extremely important. But what I'll

01:42:31.040 say is that it's kind of like a chicken or the egg situation. Like one leads to the other. And

01:42:36.340 what I mean by that is if the church and its leadership are courageous and solid, then they

01:42:43.680 will attract a congregation uh they will attract families um that's that are like-minded so um if

01:42:52.300 you find a church because this is what i hear from people all the time it's like well my pastors are

01:42:56.820 kind of cowardly and compromised and this that and the other but there's some great people in the

01:43:00.700 church guys i gotta be honest um there's not um and this is what i mean by that um i know those

01:43:12.060 guys. I know those guys personally, and I don't mean the pastors. I mean the congregants who are

01:43:15.980 great congregants in the church, despite the fact that their pastor's a limp.

01:43:22.920 Your great, courageous men, church men, not pastors, but the congregants themselves,

01:43:30.600 do not tolerate, maybe for a season, they do not sit there year after year after year,

01:43:37.060 leading their wives and children to a limp-wristed church with an effeminate libtard pastor. They

01:43:44.680 don't do it. And so what I've found is that, well, you know, the pastors aren't great, but the

01:43:49.160 congregants really are. What I found is that those great, courageous congregants, even the

01:43:54.880 congregants themselves, when they're pressed and pressed and pressed, turns out that they haven't

01:44:00.880 actually just been tolerating that pastor. They've been comfortable in that church because they

01:44:05.140 actually are like that pastor they themselves have far more in common with that liberal pastor

01:44:11.540 than maybe they're willing to admit it might seem a little spicy or courageous from time to time on

01:44:17.140 x and the social media platforms but push comes to shove the reason why they've been willing

01:44:23.420 they've been content to be a part of a church with a liberal leadership for again not just talking

01:44:30.220 about a few months but for years in those cases is because they themselves are given over to more

01:44:36.160 liberalism than they may even be aware of so all that said the congregants of a church the caliber

01:44:42.920 of the congregants not just the leaders it matters immensely however if you find a church with the

01:44:47.820 right leaders the congregants will follow next fraternity of benjamin sent five dollars thank

01:44:53.840 you i'm assuming benjamin for those of us with ties and roots in a particular region of the u.s

01:44:59.320 How would you recommend finding the closest churches that won't longhouse us?

01:45:03.980 I mean, that's the age-old question.

01:45:05.740 Are there base churches near me?

01:45:06.740 We get that one a lot.

01:45:07.780 I think one way is to look for men that are standing out and speaking up on social media.

01:45:11.860 So you see a pastor that preaches a good sermon or went to his courthouse, look up where he pastors.

01:45:17.100 And eventually, I mean, there's people, Joel, that like they've watched you for six months and all of a sudden they're like, holy cow, I live 20 minutes away from him.

01:45:24.340 so don't let a pastor go by someone who's speaking someone who in their bio for example says that

01:45:29.720 they're a pca minister don't look at someone that's being brave standing out speaking out

01:45:34.020 and say uh and just go ah maybe he ministers somewhere keep saying does he live near me

01:45:39.540 does he preach near me is he an hour away could i make the drive that would be the best bet i think

01:45:44.040 yep yeah yeah you're right on social media the people that you are following that are ministers

01:45:50.000 look into it you might be surprised oh my goodness I've been following this guy

01:45:54.900 benefiting from his x account or whatever his podcast and I just never took the time to see

01:46:00.440 where he lives but it turns out he passes a church 30 minutes away many such cases all right

01:46:05.320 next one Antonio yep uh located goose and another five dollars and says how should I view the

01:46:10.660 salvation of catholic and EO family members based on the doctrine they confess how much grace is

01:46:16.480 there in error salvifically it's a great question uh we've answered this before a short answer for

01:46:23.700 the sake of time because we've got a lot of super chats today is um there's a difference between

01:46:29.620 catholicism and catholic there's a difference between the catholics themselves and the doctrine

01:46:36.160 of rome catholicism and so uh keep that in mind um and and i'm not just picking on the catholics

01:46:42.900 the same for Protestants. But the actual people, the actual Protestants versus Protestantism,

01:46:50.060 you know, or the actual Catholics versus Catholicism, very often, it is very common

01:46:55.800 that there is quite a difference between the two. There are many Catholics that I have had

01:47:04.100 conversations with over the years that aren't even aware of all the doctrines of Rome. You ask

01:47:13.180 them, hey, do you believe that you're a Christian? Do you believe you're saved? Yes. Then you ask

01:47:19.260 them, why? And as they begin to answer that question, why? It's usually a fairly simple

01:47:26.440 answer well i'm saved because jesus christ the son of god died for my sin and i have faith in him

01:47:34.480 you know what i mean so um i i think there's a way that we can main my point is and i think

01:47:40.920 that's a charitable way of kind of walking the tightrope on this very controversial issue

01:47:47.800 is um doing your best to bifurcate between the doctrines themselves and the people catholicism

01:47:55.860 and Catholics. I've said it before. I say it kind of tongue-in-cheek, but I do actually believe this

01:48:00.940 is the case. I believe that there are many Catholics, many Catholics who are genuinely

01:48:09.740 saved going to heaven because I believe that there are many bad Catholics.

01:48:14.840 that's that's my opinion i the average catholic that i talk to is um is not beholden to they're

01:48:25.660 not um they're not holding to the council of trent they're not uh familiar with with every

01:48:33.340 single tenant of mariology um they're catholic despite those things they're catholic like their

01:48:39.480 main motive for even being catholic is they were born into the catholic church their family has

01:48:44.920 always been catholic there's familial reasons historic reasons cultural reasons and then you

01:48:50.760 know beyond that it's because the catholic church feels old it feels tried it feels true

01:48:58.360 and they're they're looking for something they've chosen catholicism not over historic protestantism

01:49:03.560 with a an objective analysis they've chosen catholicism because when they think of a

01:49:09.000 a protestant church they they just think of the average shoebox mega church um you know it's

01:49:15.820 meeting in a strip mall with you know laser lights and fog machines you know and so that's

01:49:21.660 what they're comparing it to and that's why they've made the decision that they have and i think that

01:49:26.520 all that needs to be considered okay next sean sent five dollars and says big fan of the show

01:49:34.480 i'm a 27 year old male in cleveland ohio grok told me that it's likely the end times will happen

01:49:40.960 in my lifetime thoughts grok said it it's you gotta take that to the bank run for the hills

01:49:46.800 yeah uh that's that's actually funny um i think in general i think ai you know tells you what you

01:49:53.560 want to hear i you know so and it's pulling from the sentiment of the time so christian evangelical

01:49:59.540 sentiment right seems like it right exactly just keep in mind that um you know artificial general

01:50:06.220 intelligence like we have narrow ai that's what we have we're talking about um a very very very

01:50:12.280 fast and thorough search engine but it is not sentient it is not thinking so grok is not

01:50:19.980 thinking and telling you you know it's it's personal you know conclusions grok is just

01:50:25.600 searching the internet like really all i've heard people say it this way and i think it's well said

01:50:31.340 i think you might have said this antonio but all uh all ai is doing is plagiarizing

01:50:37.340 uh at a high level uh quickly yep thoroughly plagiarizing um and so if grok told you that

01:50:46.000 really the way you should interpret it is um this is the general consensus currently among

01:50:53.420 people that i follow in the broader social sphere so if you follow a bunch of evangelicals and then

01:51:00.520 gives you that answer your conclusion should be evangelicals think that jesus is coming back in

01:51:05.560 my lifetime yeah i think this is a quick 10 second aside on ai but if you're interested i think apple

01:51:11.240 just published a paper on ai and what they found is uh their finding was that ai cannot reason

01:51:16.620 and it's nowhere clear close to being able to reason and what they did was uh they created

01:51:21.440 new problems so uh they created problems that wouldn't be on the internet that ai wouldn't

01:51:26.040 have seen before and been able to interpret and use to answer um and uh it did terrible so if you

01:51:31.900 give if you give ai an lsat it's going to have seen the question or a question like it before

01:51:36.480 and it's going to do pretty well it's all pattern recognition and probabilistic sort of uh answers

01:51:41.960 but it's it isn't a reasoning like you said sentient uh being that should we should place

01:51:49.180 any reasonable amount of trust in yep well said all right fraternity of benjamins he gave us

01:51:54.160 another five dollars he said i know georgetown and i know ogden are there any other churches

01:51:59.640 or networks or denominations that you would recommend for finding like-minded brothers across

01:52:04.880 the nation um ogden and georgetown would be two of uh i think um our favorites uh we we are

01:52:14.060 georgetown so that's a little bit biased um georgetown texas if you're looking for a church

01:52:18.820 that's where we're at it's north of austin um i think those are two of the best uh are there any

01:52:24.680 other like major hubs that uh you know that have you know a strong presence and a lot of agreement

01:52:32.420 i mean there there are lots of guys that we have you know lots of theological agreement but i think

01:52:38.760 in in line with today's episode and i think this is probably what people are getting at

01:52:42.900 right is the intangibles it's not it's like okay well these guys agree on being historic

01:52:50.160 protestants confessional you know covenantal this that and the other they're not dispensational

01:52:55.820 at least not on paper they're not this they're not that yeah there's a lot of guys like that

01:53:01.240 but when push comes to shove in terms of the intangibles it's like this guy might on paper

01:53:06.020 be patriarchal but then when it comes to every twitter post and every blog post and every you

01:53:13.120 know church discipline uh situation or counseling session it's always some exception clause you know

01:53:20.920 where it's like well but technically you know deborah technically abigail technically like

01:53:26.240 so it's like okay you're patriarchal on paper but you're you're complementarian or just egalitarian

01:53:33.500 in uh in practice and so yeah there are a lot of guys if we were just listing off and i don't want

01:53:39.300 to do it because i think it's a misrepresentation i think it's unhelpful and some of you might hear

01:53:44.180 me give a list and go to a place and then be sorely disappointed so i'm not going to give you

01:53:48.160 a full list of um people who just agree with us on you know nine out of ten or 99 out of 100 issues

01:53:56.800 on paper um i think what the question is getting at is who are the people who are kindred spirits

01:54:03.480 they're they're like-minded in heart in practice ogden would be one of them um

01:54:10.280 i feel like maybe i don't know like there's lots of great names i just don't know where

01:54:17.160 in the country you are tennessee tennessee ridge runner project there's ridge runner project that

01:54:22.020 would be an example um that's that's part of the problem is it's tough yeah you can't just say

01:54:28.060 join a church here join this network we can name the individuals but they could be 500 miles away

01:54:33.260 right yeah but it's not it's not that many like i think there are a lot of guys it's growing day

01:54:40.080 by day but in terms of like churches and pastors um that's still few and far between i think a lot

01:54:47.300 of the momentum that we're getting is grassroots it's congregants all right next one this is a

01:54:54.140 super sticker so a ten dollar super chat thank you from hesha and it's describing the sticker

01:54:59.500 it says lemon character doing a victory dance with a monocas in his hand maracas maracas

01:55:05.660 seems like any glasses in my old age seems like it'd be a cool sticker

01:55:10.720 i appreciate that thank you for the super chat all right hhs 9045 uh says dale partridge

01:55:20.000 recently tweeted that christians must grasp uh that they can't fulfill the great commission

01:55:26.220 without political colonization thoughts i think that's true i think that's true i don't the great

01:55:34.020 commission is to make disciples of all nations it's not merely to make individual persons disciples

01:55:40.640 out of nations uh but but the subject that's being made a disciple is the nations themselves

01:55:47.600 and so um it's every component every element of the nation it's the culture it's uh it's the

01:55:54.460 political um system it's i think it's all the way down so like we are actually i believe we are

01:56:01.640 called in the great commission to make christian nations not just christian individual people out

01:56:06.860 of nations but christian nations and a christian nation um that like the great commission the

01:56:13.100 gospel has a totalizing effect it's not content to just save private hearts um christianity is

01:56:21.140 not a private faith it's a personal faith but with a public expression public expression and

01:56:28.280 when you look at christianity in its most powerful moments historically over the last 2000 years

01:56:33.880 it was always there was always a um it spilled into everything it spilled into culture it spilled

01:56:40.800 into academia it spilled into politics um from constantine to king alfred you know all the way

01:56:48.660 down the line. So I think that's absolutely true. If we seek to fulfill the Great Commission,

01:56:55.080 it's one thing if we're seeking to fulfill the Great Commission, believing that the

01:57:02.020 Christianizing of the political system of a given nation will follow. That's one thing.

01:57:09.000 But that's not what I'm seeing today. I am seeing from a lot of pastors saying that the intent,

01:57:16.000 the actual goal should be to avoid the christianization christianization of a nation

01:57:22.380 politically and to um to actually like we our goal should be to just win private persons for christ

01:57:30.160 and not nations i think it's one thing to say this nation is currently a communist nation

01:57:36.040 but a few people in the province of god will be called to be missionaries even despite this nation

01:57:42.720 being publicly politically hostile towards christ and they're going to go in and save souls and

01:57:48.640 preach christ that's great but when you say um christian nationalism is is the greatest danger

01:57:55.420 to america and our goal is to have that everyone in america would be a christian but that the

01:58:00.600 nation politically and culturally would not be christian um not that it would follow later but

01:58:06.540 but that we don't want that to ever happen uh i think that's just ridiculous i think that's

01:58:11.840 not just ridiculous, I think that's sinister. I think there's malice, real malice behind that.

01:58:17.800 I think these individuals who are using that rhetoric know exactly what they're doing. They

01:58:23.100 know what they're saying. And yeah, they're choosing to side against Christ. So I think

01:58:30.580 Dale Partridge is right that the political colonization is, I think that that's rooted

01:58:37.500 in the text of Matthew 28,

01:58:39.860 where the Great Commission is found.

01:58:41.640 And I think that that's been proven,

01:58:43.060 not only can be proven exegetically from the scripture,

01:58:46.060 but also historically

01:58:47.300 when you look at Christian nations of the past.

01:58:50.240 All right.

01:58:50.760 All right.

01:58:51.560 Bo Carrington, $100 super chat.

01:58:57.120 Very kind, Bo.

01:58:58.340 He said this, the super chat,

01:58:59.560 what he said is even kinder, even nicer.

01:59:02.220 Great discussion as usual, gentlemen.

01:59:03.980 Thank you.

01:59:04.680 Got paid today,

01:59:05.420 so I need to send some capital out

01:59:07.040 as a small tie thank you all and have a great great weekend god bless you all yubo have a great

01:59:13.500 weekend as well yeah thank you we appreciate that very kind and then that's followed up by

01:59:18.560 chase cormick gave a 50 super chat also very generous thank you chase he said to clarify

01:59:24.980 my earlier question i've seen the effect attending a church where the theology is not ideal but

01:59:31.320 permissible, it has had a negative effect on my siblings to the point of affecting who they marry

01:59:39.080 and their beliefs. How do I deal with that aspect? Yeah, that's real. What I've realized

01:59:47.240 is that most churches, when people say, well, you're being offensive, or that was harsh,

01:59:52.740 that one especially, right? That was harsh. I've gotten to the point now where I typically just

01:59:58.920 respond by saying, no, I think you mean that was clear. Joel, that's harsh. You mean clear.

02:00:06.040 Most individuals avoid, most pastors avoid the appearance of harshness by pursuing ambiguity.

02:00:16.780 The way that they avoid being labeled as harsh is by avoiding clarity. The best way to not offend

02:00:23.880 to people is to not say anything. It's like, well, pastors, you know, are saying things all the time.

02:00:29.900 Are they? Pastors are talking all the time, but are they actually saying anything? Is there a

02:00:35.640 point? Is there a view? Is there a message? Or is it just word salad? You know, just blah, blah, blah,

02:00:44.560 blah, blah, blah. It's like at the end of it all, at the end of a sermon, at the end of a blog post,

02:00:49.760 at the end of, you know, a tweet. It's like, he didn't really say anything. So my point is that

02:00:57.900 I think what you're describing is a common occurrence where within one local gathering,

02:01:07.800 you could have a wide spectrum of convictions among the congregants because the pulpit is

02:01:14.900 ambiguous because the preaching is vague. And when it's vague, what it allows for is just like a

02:01:22.700 politician, right? You want a big tent. Well, we want a big tent when it comes to trying to get

02:01:28.620 political wins and cultural wins. And that's what we've been talking about in this whole episode.

02:01:32.800 But in a local church on the Lord's Day, we actually don't want a big tent. In the local

02:01:39.440 church setting, we want to be right up front, abundantly clear about specifics, not general

02:01:47.880 vagities, you know, but specifics of our convictions, what we believe, what the Bible

02:01:53.320 says. And what that does is it just, it sets up a fence post. It sets up a border to ensure that

02:02:03.220 people who belong to that church are there because there's a great sense of unity. People always

02:02:10.400 think that unity is achieved by having less divisions, less borders, less fences. No, that's

02:02:20.220 a unity of charity, but there's also a unity of conviction. Ephesians chapter 4 speaks of

02:02:26.660 this type of unity. It's the unity of conviction. It's the unity of the knowledge of the

02:02:33.200 faith. It's a unity of common conviction. So there is a unity of charity despite distinctions

02:02:41.300 in conviction. That's what we were talking about when we want to be unified culturally and

02:02:45.640 politically Monday through Saturday. But in the church, we want to have as much as we can a unity

02:02:50.600 of conviction. And that doesn't mean we're just overlooking disagreements. It means we're preaching

02:02:58.620 and messaging so specifically and so clearly that everyone who's willing to tolerate that church

02:03:06.040 and the message of that church, you can assume that they're extremely aligned. And so the more

02:03:15.140 ambiguous the pastor, the broader the scope of the congregants, where you have libs over here

02:03:21.920 and maybe some conservatives over there. And so the solution for all of that is you're right,

02:03:27.820 And this is what you're saying, Chase, but the solution for all of that is to find a clearer church, a clearer church.

02:03:35.400 And if you don't have that, then the problem, unfortunately, will persist.

02:03:40.800 All right, Julian Stevenson, can you read that?

02:03:43.020 Yep. He sent $5 and says, we're expecting our first child in five weeks. Praise God for that.

02:03:48.960 He says, my father sadly did not lead my family well. Any advice on how I can help my new family love the standard?

02:03:56.040 Well said.

02:03:57.180 Keep the standard, love the standard.

02:04:01.160 Yeah, well, I mean, family worship every night in the home.

02:04:06.100 And you set the standard of doing family worship in the home every night,

02:04:11.120 knowing that you won't do it every night.

02:04:13.260 But if you set the standard to do it three times a week,

02:04:15.420 you'll do it once or twice.

02:04:17.260 If it's every night, you'll end up doing it four or five times.

02:04:20.360 So that's one thing.

02:04:21.720 And just speaking from personal experience,

02:04:23.840 start early. Don't, my wife and I realized this when our first was about a year old and it's like,

02:04:32.300 can't even talk, you know, they don't really understand what we're saying. But we just

02:04:36.840 realized that even from infancy, we wanted our children to be familiar with worship in the home.

02:04:46.760 So they don't understand the Bible as I'm reading it. They don't understand, you know, the theology

02:04:52.200 behind the hymns and psalms as we're singing them. They're not standing in agreement with the

02:04:58.680 prayers because they can't even comprehend the words that I'm praying. But I wanted all of our

02:05:03.660 children, before they even reached the level of comprehension as a baby, to be familiar with just

02:05:12.240 the rhythm and the presence of daily worship in the home. And so that would be very practical,

02:05:19.800 but that would be one of my pieces of advice.

02:05:22.760 What do you guys think?

02:05:23.320 I think the other one is find a good church,

02:05:26.580 be in a good church, attend church consistently.

02:05:28.840 I mean, very practical things.

02:05:31.300 I think another one is, to the extent that you can,

02:05:33.940 it's an option for you, it's available,

02:05:35.300 is surround yourself with families, young families,

02:05:40.180 children around the same age.

02:05:41.560 Maybe they're in your church.

02:05:42.720 Maybe they're childhood friends

02:05:44.260 who have the same convictions as you.

02:05:45.960 I think it goes a long way in terms of just

02:05:47.860 surrounding your children from a very early age with a cultural milieu, a very homogenous kind

02:05:55.240 of environment. And yeah, so I would say insulate your children in that way, in your relationships,

02:06:01.660 in your church. I think those go a really long way.

02:06:06.800 Yep. All right. Andrew Cox, $20. Thank you, Andrew. We appreciate it. He said,

02:06:11.380 GA, good afternoon, brothers. What would you say to the charge that Stephen Wolfe is historically

02:06:16.360 dishonest and misrepresents the sources that he cites this is not my view whatsoever but

02:06:22.140 one that i've heard passed around in my 1689 federalist circles well there's your problem

02:06:29.420 1689 federalist circles um yeah i mean like i know those circles talking about the rent of hands

02:06:37.760 talking about tom hicks um talking about you know guys who um they they don't want

02:06:47.400 steven wolf to be right they don't want him like it's a foregone conclusion um they don't want him

02:06:53.300 to be right because uh if he's right about the political theory the political theology of the

02:07:02.000 reformers, then they're wrong. And I'll be honest, it's kind of like what I was saying earlier,

02:07:08.860 to just throw myself into it also, into the equation. If Stephen Wolf is right, and I believe

02:07:16.020 he is, about the political theory and theology of the reformers, then some of the insufferable

02:07:23.320 Baptists are especially wrong, but all Baptists are at least partially wrong. All of them.

02:07:34.040 The best, I'll just, you know, I'll say it like, the best Baptist, bar none, better than Spurgeon,

02:07:42.100 the best Baptist, bar none, in terms of view of the political, would have been John Gill.

02:07:49.760 John Gill was the closest that a Baptist can get, and God bless him.

02:07:53.860 He's like, the fact that John Gill was a Baptist is probably the only way I can sleep at night

02:07:58.300 still being a Baptist without feeling just so much crushing shame that I cry into the pillow.

02:08:04.440 John Gill, he held at both tables of the law, so that being one through four with the Ten Commandments,

02:08:10.520 as well as five through ten are commandments as it pertains to God, the Sabbath,

02:08:15.480 not taking the name of the Lord in vain, etc., that these are actually binding and should be

02:08:22.280 legislated and upheld by the civil magistrate. So not just the civil magistrate enforcing that

02:08:27.880 we don't steal from our neighbor or murder our neighbor, those kinds of things, but that the

02:08:31.700 civil magistrate actually has a God-given duty, invested interest, and seeing to it that the

02:08:37.040 nation, that the country does not commit blasphemy, for instance, so that blasphemy would not only

02:08:42.940 be categorized as a sin, but it would also be considered a crime. There would be a legal

02:08:48.740 infraction for public blasphemy. John Gill held to that. So my point is the problem that you're

02:08:56.600 probably facing is predominantly stemming from 1689 Federalist circles. You're surrounding

02:09:05.380 yourself by guys who have a vested interest. You have to see the bias. They have a vested interest

02:09:11.320 in Stephen Wolf being wrong. Because if he's right, then these guys are, it's shameful. It's

02:09:22.320 embarrassing for these guys. But the reason I bring up John Gill is just to say that John Gill

02:09:28.740 even as a Baptist, so Stephen Wolf is definitely right in terms of Calvin and Luther and these

02:09:34.740 guys um but uh even in the case of john gill who was a baptist john gill uh would i guarantee you

02:09:44.260 when it comes to the political he would have sided with stephen wolf way more than tom hicks i promise

02:09:52.160 you that okay uh wise final solution west will you take that one wise final solution sent five

02:09:58.660 dollars uh frequent super chatter thanks for the five dollars they said this the lord will reward

02:10:03.980 of Right Response Ministries when you publicly communicate loyalty to the chief law enforcement

02:10:08.800 officer in the country, the chief civil magistrate over Nick. So they're referencing, I believe it

02:10:14.260 would be Donald Trump, the chief civil magistrate, the president over Nick Fuentes. This is a flavor

02:10:19.480 of a comment that the same person has sent before, so we appreciate the donation. Our question is

02:10:24.940 still, again, the same as I think it was maybe two weeks ago when he sent it. We would love to be

02:10:30.800 loyal to donald trump to have his back and to back him up when he shows loyalty to the people

02:10:35.840 that put him into office that's right trump thinks higher speaks higher of miriam adelson jews who

02:10:42.020 donated to his campaign to get certain arrangements and um embassy uh locations in jerusalem they

02:10:50.160 donated to get that and he speaks higher of those people than he does white evangelicals who voted

02:10:54.800 and put him into office three times or at the very least elected him three times put him into office

02:10:59.600 twice so by all means if he was our champion and our chief executive there would be a certain

02:11:05.080 sense of loyalty above and beyond the honor we already give him we are honorable to him we don't

02:11:09.720 we don't we do our best we don't circulate falsehoods about him there's lots of emails

02:11:14.140 that are not looking good right now that's not today's episode they're not founded we're trying

02:11:18.440 to believe the best about him but practically speaking honoring him does not require uh here's

02:11:24.700 all his faults and we have to pretend like those don't exist and exhibit undying loyalty that's

02:11:28.700 right because like no he hasn't been loyal to us he hasn't represented us he hasn't protected us

02:11:33.060 he won't have our vote again his platform won't have our support well said hhs9045 he gave us

02:11:40.840 another super chat ten dollars he said joel what's your strategy for increasing husband-wife

02:11:45.420 theological alignment on toughest applied issues like race and uh views towards israel or or jury

02:11:54.360 what percent alignment is needed for a strong counter-cultural household that's a great

02:12:01.300 question really great question first thing I was saying this is a white pill this should be

02:12:06.580 encouraging is not 100% not 100% your wife is different than you I've heard it said you know

02:12:15.780 before by Michael Foster even said this and it's good to be a man he said your wife is not your

02:12:20.400 best friend. Your wife is your wife. And that's better than a best friend. You need a wife. She

02:12:28.060 is bone of your bone, right? Flesh of your flesh, right? So there's obviously a lot. She's a suitable

02:12:33.640 helpmate, you know, of your kind. So there's a lot of similarities, but there are massive

02:12:38.060 distinctions. She's not one of the bros. She's not one of the guys. She is built different all

02:12:43.460 the way down to the marrow in her bone. And that's a beautiful thing when it's embraced for what it

02:12:49.560 is so she doesn't have to be perfectly aligned with all your political takes and all your you

02:12:55.920 know cultural takes i always think of pepe the frog meme you know where he's like all dressed

02:12:59.680 up all dapper you know with his tuxedo he said um a lucky lucky little lady to share my extremist

02:13:05.280 political views with a lucky young lady yeah and and the you know the implication is like she's

02:13:11.520 going to be horrified you know and uh but that's okay she so um obviously you don't want to have

02:13:17.780 a 50-year-long marriage where your wife is horrified by your politics for all 50 years,

02:13:22.640 but she doesn't have to be 100% aligned, but she does need to be generally aligned. So one way to

02:13:28.040 get that alignment, here's one way. Don't talk to your wife the way that you would talk to the GC,

02:13:34.380 right? Don't talk to her the way that you would talk to the boys. Don't lie to her. Don't pull

02:13:39.160 the wool over her eyes. Be honest about your positions, your convictions, and what you think,

02:13:43.260 but use language that would be more conducive to the feminine domestic spirit. You're talking to a

02:13:52.540 woman. It's your woman. It's your wife, but she's still a woman at the end of the day. So talk to

02:13:57.640 her differently. And then the last thing that I would say is wives are women and women are NPCs.

02:14:03.700 And I'm not trying to be offensive with that. NPC is non-player character, like in a video game,

02:14:10.720 if you're not familiar with the reference there's an element of that but even more than that i've

02:14:15.480 heard people define it as it pertains to women as not just non-player character but more specifically

02:14:22.300 naturally pursuing consensus women the feminine ethos is wanting to go along and get along wanting

02:14:31.800 to agree with the majority and so women typically will be more inclined much more inclined than a

02:14:39.760 man to take whatever position they think the majority of people hold. Now, here's the deal.

02:14:46.980 In brass tacks, in the objective, definitive sense, it doesn't have to be the majority of

02:14:52.140 the population, right? If we have 330 million people in America, it doesn't have to be 50%

02:14:57.840 plus one. But their world, this is one of the things you got to do, make their world smaller.

02:15:05.100 make their world smaller the world of a woman is meant to be smaller she is a lady of the hearth

02:15:11.160 her world is her home her world is you right you're trying to change the world she is in your

02:15:18.080 world she is orbiting she's the moon and you're the earth she is orbiting you are her world you

02:15:24.680 and the children your home your local church her few women friends that's her world so here's my

02:15:30.180 point, that's actually really encouraging. You don't actually have to change 50% of a 330 million

02:15:35.720 population nation plus one in order for your wife to finally get on board with your politics.

02:15:41.000 All you have to do is make sure that not the world, but her world is smaller and that that

02:15:46.880 smaller world is aligned with you. You go to the right church that holds the right views,

02:15:52.760 where she develops friendships with the right women, and you speak to her in a loving, gentle

02:15:58.540 way as her husband living with your wife in an understandable manner and even if you hold the

02:16:04.540 minority view for all intents and purposes for her everyday life and her interactions the

02:16:10.840 friendships and relationships she has it's the majority view there and she will naturally pursue

02:16:15.420 consensus as an npc god bless her and turns out your wife will be a far-right extremist just like

02:16:22.500 you match made in heaven praise god we have got to get these done antonio yes winter's uh oh seven

02:16:28.860 cent two dollars and says is the r word making a comeback it is definitely making so if we're

02:16:34.340 talking about if we're talking about retarded then then yes it is making a comeback and and

02:16:39.900 retarded is used in the most loving endearing way possible you don't michael scott i think he said

02:16:47.700 it best he said you don't call someone retarded because they're actually retarded you call them

02:16:52.060 retarded when they're doing something retarded right um same thing with uh another word the f

02:16:58.000 word not not f-u-c you know but i was like you don't say that when you know if they're actually

02:17:02.300 you actually say it if they're doing something so uh yes i think in an endearing you know tongue

02:17:07.200 in cheek humorous way it is certainly making a comeback all right uh next pavel ten dollars

02:17:12.600 thank you pavel while non-salvific traditions orient one's life towards god that is their

02:17:18.600 purpose as there are many languages but one meaning so there are many traditions but one

02:17:22.980 spirit very kind super chat a picture of a dove and i do not understand that comment um i think

02:17:30.760 i understand it and i i think i gotta admit i don't like it and i think pavel's probably a great

02:17:36.080 guy or girl or i don't know pavel is a strange name but uh no we we got to be careful there like

02:17:44.940 i think to to one extent yes like the the you know the holy catholic church lower case c catholic

02:17:53.460 the invisible church right that stretches back throughout the ages every person who truly

02:17:59.620 belongs to christ and it's one baptism one spirit one you know so we have that in galatians i believe

02:18:06.040 it's chapter three one lord um and so in that sense yes but if it's in the sense to say that

02:18:12.500 the distinctions don't matter at all or that they matter very little then that can be a problem so

02:18:19.820 without knowing the person i don't know their intent in the comment but i do see ten dollars

02:18:24.820 and so i'm going to give the benefit of the doubt that this person's on come back on monday with

02:18:29.580 another ten dollars it's church traditions it's not like uh cultural traditions there yeah and

02:18:35.040 in that case it feels and i would say so then that's true as far as it goes yeah it's not

02:18:39.800 limitlessly true but it is it is true to an extent um that within orthodox churches yes uh one spirit

02:18:47.600 one lord one baptism uh but if we're going to apply that to mormons then no no sir ron don

02:18:55.160 valenti he gave us 20 we appreciate that he said what are your general thoughts about receiving

02:19:01.420 veterans disability many vets receive it in some form regardless of combat history is there a line

02:19:08.580 between being shrewd and providing and acquiring dishonest gain? That's a great question. Wes would

02:19:15.060 be the guy to answer it, but we have no time today. I'm just going to go on record and say

02:19:18.960 we've got to, people who have put their lives at risk for our country are just treated like scum.

02:19:26.200 Like I just think we take veterans for granted and we got to do right by our veterans. Should

02:19:32.160 they be on lifelong disability when they're perfectly able-bodied and healthy? Probably

02:19:37.620 not if you're an individual who is a veteran and you, like, should you be shrewd in a system where

02:19:44.240 you're already being robbed through your taxes and try to get some of that back? And can you make a

02:19:48.460 justifiable argument? I think you probably can. This is something where the system itself needs

02:19:54.000 to change. Let's keep going. Nick Bonner. Nick Bonner gave us a $27.99 super chat. We appreciate

02:20:01.740 that he said i'm canadian and somehow still more american first than these frauds so true king

02:20:08.580 well said here is a 70 super chat from nick 488 very generous we appreciate that he said hey guys

02:20:17.060 i'd like your thoughts on the following european supremacy can only be attributed to god's

02:20:23.700 providence i agree with that his hand graced uh the europeans before christ ever walked the earth

02:20:31.380 i think that's debatable but i i know that view uh before they would eventually become the people

02:20:38.920 to wield his son's sword great question i think that that um that's something that's been looming

02:20:44.540 this this sentiment from a few of our listeners it just merits a whole episode so let's just

02:20:49.440 put a pin in that one we'll get to it eventually but talking about europeans and who were the

02:20:54.680 europeans 2 000 years ago and what was god providentially doing talk about plato you know

02:20:59.700 was so we i think that that's uh it's fascinating it's worth a conversation uh next one reformed

02:21:07.260 farmer he gave us five dollars we appreciate that reformed farmer he said my wife just gave birth

02:21:12.180 uh to our second child who is a boy pray that he will be a godly man uh that god would give him

02:21:20.000 give us wisdom to parent him um and uh thank you for your ministry thank you so much reformed

02:21:26.840 farmer we appreciate that lynn p last one here we go five dollar super chat thank you lynn why are

02:21:33.220 so many men converting to eo what would you say to someone in your church tempted to leave uh leave

02:21:40.220 and convert to eastern orthodoxy that's a great question you probably tuned in late because this

02:21:44.980 live stream has been going on for about two or three days at this point um we did address it

02:21:50.420 earlier it's certainly not your fault i think it's the mr miyagi complex i think that's a big

02:21:55.480 portion of it. And so I already kind of addressed that. I would encourage you just

02:22:00.480 rewind the tape, go back a little bit in the episode, probably around the halfway point,

02:22:05.620 you'll find my answer. And I think it directly applies to your question. That's all we got for

02:22:09.880 today. As always, thank you so much for your generosity supporting this ministry. We appreciate

02:22:14.920 it very much. Here at the very end, one last time, please do us a massive favor. Subscribe

02:22:19.780 on YouTube and click the bell. And also follow us on X. The handle is at right response M as in

02:22:26.080 ministries, at right response M. Follow us on X. Click the bell there as well. And if you're

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02:22:37.000 helps kind of trigger the algorithm and get this content out to more people for the glory of King

02:22:42.620 Jesus. That's it for the week. And we will see you Lord willing next week on Monday at 3 p.m.

02:22:48.100 Central Time. God bless.

The NXR Podcast - November 14, 2025

THE LIVESTREAM - Denominationalism Is Dead

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