The NXR Podcast - THE LIVESTREAM - Does Christian Nationalism Have A Racism Problem？ - Live with Eric Conn

00:00:00.000 if there's one accusation that flies fast and thick against christian nationalism it is the

00:00:08.860 accusation of racism sadly even many christians are quick to levy the term against their brothers

00:00:17.220 rarely stopping to consider the bible's actual teaching on the topic and the dubious recent

00:00:24.300 origin of this term of racism join us now with special guest eric khan as we discuss

00:00:31.260 how concerned christians should actually be about this so-called racism and if christian nationalism

00:00:39.500 does indeed have a racist problem within its ranks

00:00:51.500 all right we are back ga ga it's not an m anymore we've got eric con with us nathan

00:00:59.780 uh turn it over to eric just for a second eric thanks for coming on the show

00:01:02.580 guys thanks for having me what a pleasure awesome okay so eric wes myself we've all been in a bit

00:01:10.780 of a dust up for a little while now um going back and forth on in twitter land which from now on i

00:01:17.340 guess we have to call it x because once the progressives come out and say you know that

00:01:21.560 it's conservative and right-wing you know to call it x then you have to start calling it x so

00:01:26.200 anyways but on x there's been a dust up and some controversy over um aristotle that was that was

00:01:33.340 one and we've addressed that a little bit and we can talk about that a little bit more but then

00:01:36.680 other guys have started besides just on x uh even on youtube you know other guys have done some

00:01:41.780 videos where they've talked about eric khan they've talked about me they've talked about

00:01:46.000 Stephen Wolf. They talked about, you know, different guys. And basically, you know, in a

00:01:51.520 nutshell, it all comes down to, you know, Christian nationalism is, you know, white Christian

00:01:55.420 nationalism. It's racist. And that's been going on for a while, but it seems as though it's heating 0.98

00:01:59.600 up a little bit. And so we want to respond. So we're actually going to be showing some video

00:02:02.800 clips today and having Eric respond because they, in this video, they, you know, they talk about

00:02:07.700 Eric Kahn. They also talk about Joel Webin. So Eric and I will both be responding to things,

00:02:11.920 but we're going to do something a little bit different right here from the outset. And it's

00:02:15.320 going to take about seven minutes to do, but it will be seven minutes incredibly well spent.

00:02:20.600 We are going to read the entire article that this week, our very own Wesley Todd wrote for us.

00:02:27.840 And the reason why is just for those of you who are tuning in and you don't keep up with the

00:02:31.840 live stream every Wednesday, what we do is Michael, who is out of town this week, Michael

00:02:36.960 and Wes, they alternate taking turns every other week writing an article that corresponds with our

00:02:42.820 weekly show. And so what we're doing as a show is lockstep with the article that they've prepared

00:02:49.460 ahead of time. So that's why we have, you know, with the show, we'll be able to show, you know,

00:02:54.040 graphics and statistics and all these things and sources and, you know, in quotes, you know,

00:02:59.240 to back up the arguments that we're making, because this is a show that's live, but it is a

00:03:04.220 show that is thoroughly prepared. And if for the record, if you ever want to have access to the

00:03:08.760 whole article and be able to read it on your own time and be able to have it in written form so

00:03:13.140 that you can cite it as you're arguing, you know, with your progressive uncle, you know, whatever

00:03:16.480 at Thanksgiving, then, you know, all you need to do is join us at patreon.com forward slash

00:03:22.320 right response ministries, patreon.com forward slash right response ministries. You'll get a

00:03:27.000 bunch of perks, but that's one of them. All of our Patreon members have access to the full article

00:03:31.100 every single week that corresponds with the live stream. Okay, here we go. So this is the title of

00:03:35.520 the article. I'm going to read some. Wes is going to read some. I'm going to read some. We're going

00:03:38.280 to go back and forth so that it's super engaging and you don't get bored. But this, I mean, the

00:03:42.660 content alone, it stands on its own two legs. Here we go. Does Christian nationalism have a racism

00:03:48.720 problem? That's the title. Does Christian nationalism, a loose collection of conservatives, 0.52

00:03:54.000 elected officials, and reactionaries have a problem with racism and racist within the movement? Well,

00:03:59.620 it depends on who you ask. To some, the answer is unquestionably yes. For others, it depends

00:04:05.540 on what those words actually mean. Take the definition of racism, for instance. It is well

00:04:11.280 known that the meaning is as slippery and malleable as the day is long. While more formal

00:04:17.360 dictionary definitions ground its meaning in a belief in superiority of particular races,

00:04:23.400 that would be Merriam-Webster in Oxford, other sociologists have described it as a systematic,

00:04:29.860 this would be Beverly Daniel Tatum, or global, not or, but and global, this is W.E.B. Du Bois,

00:04:37.580 and or structural, that'd be France, Fannin, phenomenon. So a systematic, global, and

00:04:44.580 structural phenomenon. This means that racism can functionally take on any meaning it needs to,

00:04:51.100 sometimes even having nothing to do with race or ethnicity at all. As someone once observed,

00:04:57.420 a racist is someone who is winning an argument with a liberal. Now, when the origins of the term

00:05:03.240 are considered, the meaning is thrown into even more question. The term racism or racist only

00:05:09.400 appears in French, German, and English literature for the very first time in the late 1880s,

00:05:15.800 likely for the first time in 1888 by French anarchist Charles Mulatto. However, the term

00:05:24.840 itself did not see any widespread use until after 1930, a fact some link to the use of the term by

00:05:31.960 communist revolutionary Leon Trotsky in his writings. Whether Trotsky brought the idea to

00:05:39.920 public consciousness or not, a simple explanation of the use of the words racism and racist in books

00:05:46.180 and publications dating back to 1800 shows absolutely no use of either expression leading

00:05:52.660 up to 1930, and very insignificant use until 1960. Meanwhile, other common expressions relating to

00:06:00.560 race and ethnicity have clear precedent even prior to 1800. This means that no English, that would be

00:06:07.140 the Westminster Divines and London Baptists, French, John Calvin, or German theologian, Protestant, or

00:06:13.120 Roman Catholic, would have used the concept of racism in any capacity before or during the course

00:06:19.860 of the Protestant Reformation and the Enlightenment.

00:06:22.880 Additionally, any contemporary American theologians who wrote and lectured prior to the 1960s

00:06:29.100 would have never considered, used, or applied the concept to Christian life.

00:06:35.080 All right. 0.99

00:06:35.840 Can we actually just show, I don't know if we'll get a chance to go back to these.

00:06:38.720 Yeah, let's show them.

00:06:39.340 Let's show these two charts quick.

00:06:40.700 This first one here is the use of the term racism or racist.

00:06:45.100 And this is a Google Engram viewer, and it's not just a raw account.

00:06:47.900 Like, how many times does this word appear in books since this time period?

00:06:51.020 Because more books are being written, so naturally the count will go up.

00:06:53.640 This is a percentage of all words.

00:06:55.520 So if you're looking at this, I'll describe it for anyone that's maybe listening.

00:06:58.640 The use of these terms, there is no use prior to really about 1940.

00:07:04.220 None.

00:07:04.760 And these are not rookie numbers on this chart.

00:07:06.920 We've got to pump these numbers down.

00:07:09.100 Right.

00:07:09.540 We should be seeing it cap off and decline.

00:07:11.760 But it's really even 1960 that you see the use of these words, publications, book, public

00:07:16.920 consciousness go up. And this isn't just because we started thinking in a new way about race or

00:07:21.440 some words evolved. If you can show the second figure, Nate, this is the term race. Now, the

00:07:26.740 term race has a long history of being used. It was used prior to the 1800s. You go back to Calvin,

00:07:31.880 he's writing in 1500s. He uses the term race to speak of different groups of people. So there's

00:07:36.580 clear precedent for understanding race, nation, ethnicity, but racism and racist as words did not

00:07:44.100 exist in our public consciousness less than 100 years ago. And with Calvin using the word race,

00:07:49.200 I assume that he only ever used the term race to describe the one human race. He never used it to

00:07:54.420 say that there are different races of people. Never. Right. Okay. No, he did. Yeah, that's a

00:07:59.400 normal way of speaking. It is okay. You can speak that way without being immoral. All right, go ahead.

00:08:03.800 So part two. So despite the recent and dubious origins of the designation, an astute Christian

00:08:09.920 could attempt to make the argument that while the word racism or racist itself may be new,

00:08:15.520 the sin denoted is the more ancient concept of prejudice and or partiality. Defined this way,

00:08:21.220 racism, considered biblically, would merely mean prejudice and bitterness against a certain race.

00:08:26.540 For example, Pastor John MacArthur operates with this definition in a 2018 piece

00:08:30.480 on social justice. But these definitions still seem to fall short of a meaningful

00:08:34.660 and helpful conception of racism. For example, prejudice is simply the compounding of

00:08:39.500 before and judgment in Latin. To have prejudice is simply to pre-judge. Are there not times that

00:08:45.760 require making a judgment prior to every fact being known? We pre-judge intentions very often,

00:08:50.900 matters of trustworthiness and safety. Paul himself seems to carry a prior judgment about

00:08:55.480 the Cretans when he describes them as evil beasts, liars, and lazy gluttons in Titus 1.12. 0.98

00:09:01.240 Some level of pre-judgment is clearly not off-limits for the Christians, 0.98

00:09:04.900 although as all actions it should be carried out with prudence.

00:09:07.920 In regards to partiality, perhaps a brief exegesis of James 2 would be helpful.

00:09:12.040 James 2 is frequently cited as a New Testament passage that condemns actions of favoritism,

00:09:16.600 partiality, bias, etc., and could be reasonably construed to include racism.

00:09:21.220 In verse 1, James commands,

00:09:22.480 My brothers, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect

00:09:26.760 of persons.

00:09:27.800 James roots this in the great commandment to love one's neighbor and concludes the thought

00:09:31.800 by explaining,

00:09:32.420 If you have respect of persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

00:09:38.500 Thus, with full biblical authority, we can confidently assert that respecting of persons

00:09:42.580 within the context of faith transgresses the command to love our neighbor.

00:09:46.540 But what kind of respecting of persons is being forbidden here?

00:09:49.520 Is all respect of persons, including kings and emperors, that other apostles like Paul

00:09:53.920 and Peter command us to honor and respect, is that forbidden?

00:09:57.520 Calvin rightly observes that if this verse should read,

00:10:00.940 he sins who respects the rich the sentence would be absurd instead per calvin the key distinction

00:10:07.800 is favored rendered to the rich alone combined with the treatment of the poor with contempt

00:10:13.320 respect is certainly due to all manners of people including magistrates kings elders leaders and

00:10:18.560 earthly masters but in the body of christ the church elevation of earthly prompt and denigration

00:10:23.640 of the lowly has no place as calvin comments when the esteem or value of riches or of honor

00:10:28.840 dazzles our eyes the truth is suppressed which ought alone to prevail in other words james is

00:10:34.080 not warning against respect for the rich or any other social class as an entire group since

00:10:39.100 obviously respect is due to emperors and kings with wealth it's even a group designated by god

00:10:43.840 as his servant and deserving of honor but james is warning against rolling out the red carpet and

00:10:48.640 church for the well-off individual attendee while shooing away the less socially desirable based on

00:10:54.560 this exegesis, there seems to be little overlap with the modern conception of racism. And if

00:10:59.120 anything, the evangelical church is in need of repentance for partiality against whites,

00:11:04.040 as illustrated, for example, in prominent pastors speak of hiring less qualified pastors

00:11:08.480 instead of Anglo pastors, simply because these less qualified pastors are African American.

00:11:13.840 That would be Matt Chandler in 2018, who said exactly that.

00:11:17.760 Last portion of the article. Here we go. To offer one final possibility for a biblical

00:11:21.740 definition of racism, what about actual violence and mistreatment rooted in hatred for a certain

00:11:27.660 race? An example would be the story of Eugene Williams, a black teenager who was killed after

00:11:33.280 he unintentionally drifted his raft into an unofficially segregated white beach off Lake

00:11:39.220 Michigan. White men on the beach hurled stones at the raft after it crossed, eventually knocking

00:11:44.720 Eugene into the water where he drowned. The first officer to arrive at the scene initially refused

00:11:50.820 to take the murderers into custody, sparking the 1919 Chicago race riots that left dozens dead and

00:11:57.920 hundreds injured. A number of heinous sins and crimes were committed against Eugene Williams,

00:12:03.860 who was murdered and then denied justice, violating both the Sixth Commandment and the

00:12:08.960 Noeic Covenant, as well as probably the Ninth Commandment and lying, producing false witnesses.

00:12:13.700 but it is exactly these prohibitions against murder theft and injustice and envy that make

00:12:21.140 the category of racism largely redundant cain murdered abel over anger that his sacrifice

00:12:28.140 was accepted it would have been it would not have been more or less excusable of a sin

00:12:34.080 if it had been for racial reasons the sin was the murder the reason is largely incidental

00:12:41.120 Similarly, violence, theft, threats, and injustice are in and of themselves sin,

00:12:48.180 and the motives seem to often be of little account in the biblical narratives.

00:12:52.520 If anything, some passages even allow for different treatment of native Israelites as a race versus foreigners, other races,

00:13:01.500 such as Deuteronomy 23.20.

00:13:04.080 An equivalent today would be the allowance of American citizens to charge interest only to

00:13:10.200 immigrants or those who hold green cards, charging financial interest, a policy that the ERLC would

00:13:18.280 trip over itself to condemn and oppose. But God's perfect and just law makes no such apology,

00:13:25.740 and in fact even ties this command to blessing in Deuteronomy chapter 23 verse 21. While hatred

00:13:33.160 in the heart is certainly a sin. Matthew 5 verse 22 tells us that in-group preference seems not to

00:13:40.300 be. We are to prefer family, kin, and nation, and this preference is not sinful when other matters

00:13:47.600 of justice, love, and mercy are not neglected. Thus, granting that racism may only be a sin

00:13:54.860 when it serves as a motive to other sins, including hatred in the heart, we are equipped to answer the

00:14:00.780 question. So does Christian nationalism have a racism problem? Is it a movement marked by racial

00:14:06.640 animus as the foundation for patterns of actual violence and abuse, theft and hatred? The answer 0.95

00:14:14.160 is no. Knowing crime statistics is not racism. Assuming racism is properly defined, opposing

00:14:22.040 immigration, illegal and legal, is not racism. Advocating that a country share common values,

00:14:29.120 a place and a people is not racism. Noticing and speaking up about patterns of behavior and that

00:14:37.080 destroys a social trust is not racism. Wanting to live in a safe and commodious nation is not

00:14:44.260 racism. The Christian is bound to the word of God for its definitions of right and wrong,

00:14:50.420 and none of these actions even begin to qualify as sins. Could racial hatred be harbored in the

00:14:56.500 heart, but never making its way to visible sin? Certainly. But only the final day when Christ

00:15:03.040 reveals the hearts of men will vindicate or condemn an individual's heart. For now, we believe

00:15:10.200 that the best about our Christian nationalist brothers, laboring for a better Christian future

00:15:15.660 alongside us, and strive to be marked by joy, ambition, and godliness, character traits that

00:15:22.140 will choke out the seeds of all improper hate, inordinate lust, envy, and malice. 1 Timothy 1

00:15:29.380 5-7 says this, the aim of our charge is love, that issues from a pure heart and a good conscience

00:15:36.720 and sincere faith. Certain persons by swerving from these have wandered away into vain discussion,

00:15:43.640 desiring to be teachers of the law, but without understanding either what they are saying or the

00:15:49.680 things about which they make confident assertions. Here we are, Eric, throwing it to you. What do

00:15:56.140 you think? Well, I think, first of all, guys, that was brilliant. I think you should have more of

00:16:00.900 that. Wes, well done. Thank you. Wes, I don't know if Wes gets a promotion, but I give Wes a promotion.

00:16:06.100 Perfect. Without pay. A higher title, maybe a new fancy tie, but absolutely no pay bump.

00:16:13.740 that's great what what what a deal yeah i think so much of this you guys are exactly right

00:16:20.620 uh and so much but i think for christians and and how we think through these issues

00:16:25.000 you notice that spike uh starts in the 40s on terms like racism uh as you guys pointed out

00:16:30.940 not being used before but notice the jump in the 60s right what happens in the 60s you get the

00:16:37.000 civil rights 1964 amendment and then really what becomes a bureaucracy of the u.s government

00:16:44.260 that is pushing the legislation and really this total ideology of racism into all the culture

00:16:51.380 we get things like affirmative action so you're actually creating laws that are prejudiced against

00:16:57.380 particularly white people and i think because of that christians are unaware of the ways in which

00:17:02.080 we have actually been catechized, not by the scriptures, not by reformed theologians,

00:17:06.860 but by really this influx of leftist Marxist. This is the CRT that we see now infiltrating

00:17:16.700 the culture. And so I think what's concerning, particularly, you mentioned Matt Chandler,

00:17:22.980 but most pastors in America haven't seen that traditionally as a problem that he even said

00:17:29.140 that. And he's outspokenly saying, you know, I'm going to act in a manner that is showing

00:17:34.440 partiality. And there were a few fringe people, you know, count us among them who called that out

00:17:40.600 in the beginning. But where were the denominational heads of the PCA in the SBC? They were actually

00:17:46.300 kind of in lockstep. So I think because of that, now you've got all this reverse catechesis that

00:17:52.200 we have to do to really get rid of race brain. And I think a big part of it, too, a lot of people, 0.85

00:17:57.300 you know, the big hubbub was I had retweeted Andrew Torba, who was he had screenshotted or

00:18:04.960 taken a photo of somebody talking about Aristotle. And people say, well, you know, you can't the

00:18:11.280 Aristotle was the problem. I say, OK, fine. But let me read a quote from Rush Dooney.

00:18:16.440 This is what Rush Dooney said about immigration. He said, the problem, of course, is that now we

00:18:21.500 have had a great deal of illegal immigration. We have immigration laws that no longer follow

00:18:26.380 the older pattern and concentrated on European countries. We allow many, many peoples in who

00:18:32.280 have nothing in common with us, who are Muslims or members of other religions. And it appears that 1.00

00:18:37.520 there is an effort to break the Christian heritage and character of the United States.

00:18:42.620 So for our reform brothers, if you happen to be theonomic, of course, you're going to appreciate 0.99

00:18:49.420 Rush Dooney. But look, even in the 80s, these guys were talking about the problem in language

00:18:55.180 that now if you if some if one of us had said the exact same thing people would have said look

00:18:59.820 they're racists well and that happened eric i have said the exact same thing at your conference

00:19:04.500 and people said i was racist that's right and and i think it's interesting too because i was

00:19:10.800 recently speaking with a a pastor in the south in florida and he's latino and he said you know

00:19:17.500 it's funny because i i petitioned our denomination to have a latino reformed church and they were

00:19:23.760 like great and he said i i can only imagine what would have happened if i had petitioned to have

00:19:28.860 a white anglo protestant church you know what there would have been outcry over that and i

00:19:35.700 think what's really hard in these conversations people don't realize the the extent to which

00:19:40.860 they've been propagandized so when you think about unpardonable sins in our camp i mean even

00:19:47.180 to be accused of racism as we were joel recently right as you mentioned with the conference but

00:19:53.340 also on Twitter, to even be accused of it is the unpardonable sin. And we have to step back

00:19:59.260 and ask ourselves, have we even defined the sin clearly? I think you guys have shown that we

00:20:03.480 haven't. But if we haven't defined the sin as a biblical sin, why is it to the level of it's

00:20:10.720 really like a death penalty sin in our culture's view to do or say anything that's racist? And

00:20:16.420 we have to ask how we got to that place. Right. That was great, Eric. Thank you.

00:20:21.640 um let me give an example real quick um this is something that a fellow pastor who who's a godly

00:20:27.500 man i i respect him plenty plenty of respect for him grateful for him um but i said something that

00:20:35.700 you know i didn't say it directly to him but it was passed along i said something to someone and

00:20:39.140 that someone said something that you know and it got to him and uh and he couldn't believe it you

00:20:43.320 know it took him it took him back and um he's like i you know can't believe joel said that and

00:20:48.560 his first instinct was, that's racist. And I'm going to actually give the example here,

00:20:53.560 and it won't help me, you know, right-wing watch will pick it up. It's not going to help, but

00:20:56.400 well, it will help because right-wing watch will pick it up, you know, so we'll get, you know,

00:20:59.940 whatever, a million more views. But I'm going to share it. And some of you listening, you'll

00:21:04.600 listen to this and say, well, I think that's racist. But it's not. This does not contradict

00:21:11.320 the law of God in the book of James or prejudging the kinds of things. It's not that we can't

00:21:18.000 prejudge at all, right? So think of it like this, Matthew 7, judge not, right? You know how you

00:21:23.100 reformed Christian, you get upset when people misquote Matthew and they say, you know, they

00:21:26.940 basically boil down the entirety of the 66 books of the Bible to one verse, judge not. And you know

00:21:32.080 how you're going to point out, just like I would point out, you say, well, that's the first five

00:21:35.100 verses of chapter 7 of Matthew. But then verse 6 says, don't throw your pearls before swine, you

00:21:39.660 know, or give what is holy to dogs. And how do you know who swine are? And how do you know what

00:21:44.260 a dog is except for making a judgment so clearly what's being condemned you know in the book of

00:21:49.060 matthew that jesus is condemning the sermon on the mount is not all forms of judgment but

00:21:52.880 sinful judgment wrong judgment i think the same applies with pre-judgment which is that's what

00:21:58.280 prejudice is pre-judgment so when when james is saying um don't say to the rich person who comes

00:22:05.200 into your assembly so first what's the context it's the church so when a rich person walks into

00:22:10.440 your assembly. Don't say to the rich person, hey, come and sit right here at my right hand. And you

00:22:15.580 poor person, what are you doing? You peasant taking up this rich person's chair, come and sit 1.00

00:22:21.900 at my feet. James is saying, yeah, that's not a good look. The Lord is not pleased with that.

00:22:26.520 That's wrong. And that would be wrong. He uses the example of class and economic status, but that

00:22:33.180 could also be applied to race. So if you said to a white person, hey, come and have this nice chair,

00:22:37.640 and to the black person, hey, go and sit at my feet. 0.81

00:22:39.860 That's wrong, or vice versa, which is, let's be honest, 0.98

00:22:42.860 what's currently happening in the church

00:22:44.200 for the last 15 years, easy if not longer, 1.00

00:22:46.400 is, hey, black person, come and take this job 0.97

00:22:48.660 and you can be a campus pastor, you know? 1.00

00:22:50.320 And then, oh, sexual sin comes out.

00:22:51.900 It turns out that, you know, you weren't qualified. 0.99

00:22:53.900 And white guys, sorry, we had to look over you 0.52

00:22:55.860 even though you were more qualified

00:22:57.060 both in your life and doctrine, even your character.

00:22:59.700 You weren't cheating on your wife,

00:23:01.080 but you missed out on a pastoral job opportunity 0.99

00:23:03.280 because we had to get the black guy to fill that slot.

00:23:06.760 That is literally what's happening currently.

00:23:09.120 So that's not like just a...

00:23:10.600 So we are literally doing what James says, except instead of economics, it's applied

00:23:14.600 to race, and it's putting down the white guy to elevate the non-white person of color. 0.51

00:23:20.460 But here's the point.

00:23:21.960 In the context of the church, that is a prejudgment.

00:23:25.000 So in the same way that Matthew 7 does not demonize all forms of judgment, but sinful 0.55

00:23:29.600 judgment, because you have to make a judgment to know this person's a swine and I shouldn't 0.96

00:23:33.640 give them my pearls. 1.00

00:23:34.720 So, too, in the book of James, and also elsewhere in the Sermon on the Mount, I would argue,

00:23:38.540 and I think Wes argued beautifully in the article that we just read, that not all forms

00:23:43.300 of prejudgment are a sin.

00:23:44.700 In fact, we often, we have to use prejudgment on a daily basis.

00:23:50.440 If you're walking down the street with your wife and children, and you see some guy who's

00:23:57.040 kind of, you know, he's skitsing out a little bit, you know, and he's dressed in shabby

00:24:02.320 clothes, that is not what James is talking about.

00:24:04.340 oh, see, you're prejudging the poor. No, you're prejudging somebody for all intents and purposes

00:24:09.480 is showing nine out of 10 signs of being a meth addict. And therefore, with a greater inclination

00:24:16.700 towards violence and threatens the safety of your family, which you're obligated morally by God to

00:24:21.320 protect. Okay, that's totally different. So here's the example that I got to my pastor friend,

00:24:25.200 and he's like, oh, I don't like that, Joel. Are you sure you're not racist? The example that I gave,

00:24:30.380 not to him directly but somebody else and it got to him was you know somebody in my church was

00:24:35.320 asking he was asking you know what I'm trying to understand what is actually racist what you know

00:24:40.480 how do we define racism how would the bible define it you know what actually is a sin and what's not

00:24:45.880 and so I gave him an example I said well recently you know I have some heart troubles and so I have

00:24:52.160 to see a cardiologist once a year and eventually we'll probably have to have heart surgery on some

00:24:56.500 some things and I won't get into the details, but always kind of had a bad heart. And so when we

00:25:01.920 moved to Texas, I needed to get a new cardiologist. And so my wife, she does a lot of this for me

00:25:07.160 because before we had kids, she was an RN and she knows a lot more than I do. And I actually,

00:25:12.800 I let her read those books. She read some medical books. Yeah. And so she's doing the research and

00:25:17.400 looking at these things and she shows me two doctors, both within the same practice, same

00:25:22.860 company, hospital, and saying, you know, do you like one over the other? And one was a young

00:25:29.140 white dude, and one was a young black dude. And I said, I prefer the young white dude. 0.65

00:25:34.780 And this is why. The reason why is not because I'm white, but because we currently live in a 0.56

00:25:40.680 historical moment in the West, and particularly in these United States, where I know that both

00:25:46.520 of these guys could be perfectly qualified. But I also know that if there's a chance that one of

00:25:51.240 was not qualified and was given a free pass it'd be the black guy i know that that young white guy 0.56

00:25:57.340 there's no way he got a free pass there's no way i know that that and and for the record let's take

00:26:03.400 white guy out of the equation let's say it was a young black guy and a young asian guy i picked

00:26:07.280 the asian guy yep because he i know had to earn it and the black guy might have earned it and this

00:26:13.540 is the tragedy the tragedy is he could have been a fantastic doctor i i don't know now now when i 0.87

00:26:19.920 was talking to this member of my church, then I said, now let me give another hypothetical. That

00:26:23.900 was a real example. Let me give a hypothetical example. Let's say that the black doctor,

00:26:29.100 there's a white guy that I don't know from Adam, and there's a black doctor who's a member in our

00:26:32.860 church. He's a member in good standing. He's a brother in the Lord. I know him. I've had dinner

00:26:37.280 with his family. Then I'm going to him because I know him. So it's not a universal blanket judgment

00:26:43.140 against a particular person on the basis of their skin pigment. That's not what we're talking about.

00:26:48.020 but but the point is that was a pre-judgment that i made with the original example i i didn't know

00:26:53.180 either guy so i'm pre-judging i'm not judging by hey let me sit you down and interview you and get

00:26:57.900 to know you and ask you questions and you know what did you score in your incats you know and

00:27:01.300 all i didn't do any of that i'm i'm pre-judging not judging after the facts but pre-judging before

00:27:06.920 the facts and i'm making um a a bias a a an emotional heartfelt bias based off no i'm making

00:27:13.500 is statistical analysis, a prejudgment based off of statistics. I know that the likelihood of if

00:27:21.020 one of these men, maybe they both got in to their profession on merit, and I hope that they did.

00:27:26.800 But if one of them didn't, statistically speaking, there was a far higher likelihood that the young

00:27:32.680 black man, as a doctor, that he got a pass and did not have to prove as much merit. The white guy,

00:27:39.660 statistically speaking there's far less likelihood that he got a pass if anything the system would be

00:27:45.320 against him he would have to score even higher and these are things that are on the books harvard

00:27:49.820 it's on the books you have to have a higher sat score based off of race right so these are this

00:27:55.360 is not speculation this is not you know putting on the tinfoil hat this is um i can you know i'm

00:28:01.660 just believing my lying eyes i know how to read so that would be an example so but here's the thing

00:28:06.760 That is a prejudgment.

00:28:08.280 In that case, that is a prejudgment on the basis of skin pigment, and none of that goes

00:28:13.440 against what James says in the Holy Scripture.

00:28:16.220 Well, that same prejudgment that you're not allowed to do, Eric, you were talking about

00:28:19.400 this deathly thing that once you're accused of it, there's no way out.

00:28:22.280 This happened in Florida at an SBC church, FBC Naples, an SBC church, First Baptist Church

00:28:27.560 of Naples, where a black pastor narrowly failed to be chosen by the congregation, and a kind

00:28:33.400 of inquisition went out.

00:28:35.160 They found this deacon.

00:28:36.240 they hung him out to dry to the whole SBC in a letter

00:28:39.420 claiming that he instigated resistance to this man

00:28:42.480 being appointed to the office of pastor

00:28:44.400 because of racism they said they vowed to deal with this

00:28:47.480 sinful cancer and actually even church disciplined him

00:28:50.680 so they took this man who said hey I don't think this man's qualified

00:28:53.780 he didn't say why so he didn't give it away

00:28:56.180 some other members joined him they voted against

00:28:58.340 and that prejudgment I can't see the heart but I've got a good guess

00:29:02.200 they did that they hung this man out to dry and now his name

00:29:05.080 is in the mud and this incident is now forever known i remember jd greer talking about it it's

00:29:10.360 forever known as this terrible racist thing that happened in the sbc proof we still have more to do

00:29:15.040 so you can't prejudge but most certainly the so-called anti-racist they'll look into your heart

00:29:20.140 and they'll figure out motive uh whether you even have it or not right eric thoughts yeah well i i

00:29:26.460 think i know i know you guys have covered it on the show but i think for people who are wondering

00:29:30.200 on these issues particularly would encourage them to read jeremy carl's book the unprotected class

00:29:34.920 he goes through this and documents as you said harvard uh you know sat scores all that but

00:29:41.100 there's actually been a number of cases in the medical profession and he cites one of the case

00:29:45.960 i can't remember the gentleman's name but basically where this black doctor made it all the way up

00:29:50.700 through into plastic surgery in california and a lot of people end up dying because it's essentially

00:29:56.480 a dei hire the other thing i think that's interesting about it and what we have to just

00:30:00.840 be aware of because of the era of civil rights you you are at the point where to call someone

00:30:08.760 racist is it has power right it has a weaponized power to cancel to destroy but i think it also 0.67

00:30:16.380 for for particularly guys like jd greer and white pastors part of the problem is they're deathly

00:30:21.600 afraid of this conversation right they're deathly afraid of ever being accused of anything related

00:30:26.960 to being racist um and so this is they've actually taken part in part of that cancel culture

00:30:33.820 but also it it means that you have to distance yourself from the old dead guys of the reformed

00:30:40.280 tradition um and so you i think you'll see more and more of this uh happening because you're

00:30:46.000 going to have to like what do you obviously rl dabney you know very unpopular if you if you

00:30:50.920 reference him you're an automatic racist uh but even guys like jonathan edwards i mean this was

00:30:55.580 a big deal at the Desiring God conferences. John Piper had done a biography, one of his 0.52

00:31:00.460 biographical sketches on Edwards, and so much time had to be devoted to how could we be platforming

00:31:08.720 and saying anything positive given Edwards' views on slavery and his defense from Scripture and all

00:31:14.600 those things. So I think moving forward, the real issue is I think we need to, particularly as

00:31:20.440 pastors just refused to play that game uh one of the things that happened online uh people were

00:31:26.080 making disparaging comments uh the n-word gets used and immediately you'll see what happens is

00:31:32.440 like people are calling on me say like you need to come denounce this person and one of the biggest

00:31:38.060 problems i have with it is it's like i didn't make that comment i don't even know who this person is

00:31:42.980 Right. But but you saw so many pastors who were lining up and who are like, oh, no, no, like even if it's not even if I commit the racist act and that's in scare quotes, it's it's now also I need to be first to jump on anything that that could be potentially racist and I need to be denouncing it firm and hard.

00:32:02.900 Otherwise, I, too, will be called a racist.

00:32:06.240 And again, the other thing about this is there's no due process in any of it, right?

00:32:10.680 As Wes pointed out, just to be called that, it's assumed that you are that.

00:32:15.440 And again, we want to talk about biblical justice, where you've defined something unbiblically

00:32:20.380 with racism, and now you've basically hung somebody in the court of public opinion without

00:32:26.080 due process at all.

00:32:28.360 Right.

00:32:29.060 And to be clear, in that instance that you're referencing on X,

00:32:33.840 I did come out and I said, hey, this is not the way.

00:32:37.400 Delete.

00:32:38.360 And the person deleted it.

00:32:40.480 And that fixed the problem, right?

00:32:43.280 Everybody was content then?

00:32:45.020 No.

00:32:45.300 No.

00:32:46.200 No, and that's what I said.

00:32:47.780 He didn't go hard enough.

00:32:48.740 He needed to go harder.

00:32:51.760 He needed to call his pastor.

00:32:52.780 Yeah, he needed to call his pastor.

00:32:53.980 You need to hunt him down like Liam Neeson style.

00:32:56.880 I will find you, Anon. 0.92

00:32:58.440 you know and i have a very specific set of skills and i will ruin your life uh just like you know

00:33:03.100 uh everybody ruined thomas acorns but yep you know um anything short of that uh unless when it

00:33:08.240 comes to racism um unless you see to it that that man can't feed his children for the rest of his

00:33:13.780 life then uh then you're not going to satisfy you know your opponents and so yeah so anyways

00:33:21.000 go ahead just part of it with the double standard um so when you look at like hip-hop black

00:33:27.120 culture music um and i did i looked it up after that incident the the rate at which that word is

00:33:33.600 used uh is astronomical um and so like again we're judging on two standards uh based on your

00:33:40.960 skin color some people can say it some people can't again biblically you would have to say well

00:33:45.440 why is that if it's so bad why is it so frequently used right that's a good question all right let's

00:33:51.340 go to our first commercial break and then what we're going to do is we're going to come back

00:33:54.620 and we're going to show some clips of a group that I can't remember, but I...

00:33:58.520 Good Fight Ministries.

00:33:59.460 Good Fight Ministries, which they seem like good guys, just of the boomer variety, which

00:34:07.880 by the way, boomer is not an age, it's a state of mind, it's a state of heart, but definitely

00:34:13.480 a boomer take on Khan and me and other Christian nationalists, but they said some things that

00:34:19.420 I think are still worth addressing, mainly, not that we haven't addressed these things

00:34:23.860 a million times over steven wolf you know he's probably exhausted at this point how many times

00:34:27.580 he's addressed all these things so we've addressed these things multiple times eric has i have um

00:34:32.500 but i thought that it would be good to to show their clips because i thought it could be good

00:34:36.200 not just to address it for the record because the record's already been been made uh you can go back

00:34:40.680 and search videos and find where we've addressed these kinds of accusations but i thought it would

00:34:44.820 just be fun in real time to show the video and just demonstrate how easy it is to address them

00:34:49.000 Yeah, that it's like my six-year-old daughter

00:34:53.420 would be able to respond to 90%

00:34:56.640 of what you'll see in these clips.

00:34:58.500 So that'll be fun.

00:34:59.060 Let's go to our first commercial break.

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00:37:19.040 all right we're going to go ahead and check out those clips but before we do i want to address

00:37:27.680 something in the comments so a few people at this point have mentioned well joel gave this example

00:37:32.460 of choosing doctors and exercising prejudgment and arguing that it's a form of of morally

00:37:39.140 permissible prejudgment um where he decided that he's going to pass over uh the black doctor that

00:37:45.420 he doesn't know from adam in order to choose the white doctor that doesn't know from adam because

00:37:49.780 of jeremy carl what he has outlined the things that are statistically there i mean they're

00:37:54.880 written down it's it's you know it's proven uh there's a statistical likelihood that the white

00:37:59.440 guy had to get there on the basis of merit, and that's far more likely in our current cultural

00:38:05.520 moment than the black guy. Sadly, we wish that wasn't the case, but it is. But I noticed in the 1.00

00:38:11.440 comments that some people are saying, yeah, but then Wes gave an example where Joel's saying it's

00:38:17.020 okay to have his prejudgment, but then Wes gave an example of a prejudgment that was imposed on a

00:38:23.920 white guy, and that's not okay. Can you explain a little bit more of this white deacon and what

00:38:29.320 happens so that people can see the difference yep so uh it was a black pastor someone noted why did

00:38:34.860 they prejudge the white pastor it was a black pastor and it was a congregational church so in

00:38:38.800 the congregational church the members of the church have to affirm and actually take a vote

00:38:43.780 on it and then if the the member or if the the candidate that's put forward it was 81 i believe 0.59

00:38:48.980 at fbc naples so real quick but this is a black so he's not a pastor yet this is a black man

00:38:54.160 who's up for the pastorate he's a can't like elder candidate exactly and then they had to

00:38:59.360 approve him through a congregational vote of 81 sbc church and he didn't get it exactly he fell

00:39:05.520 a little bit short of it and then what happened and so then a so then they looked at like how

00:39:12.820 could we not possibly put this black man forward how could we consider him not qualified right and

00:39:17.280 the individuals that voted against him as i understand it they had a myriad of different

00:39:20.500 reasons so some of them maybe it was his teaching capacity maybe some had concerns about his

00:39:24.020 character and there was a group of individuals because it's a big church that had gathered some

00:39:28.080 signatures and said hey we don't think he's the right fit and they pinpointed on a man his name

00:39:32.200 is uh david i believe david doral uh as a man that kind of instigated this and they said because you

00:39:40.260 oppose this man whatever the reason would be we don't care this is a white man exactly this white

00:39:44.400 man it must have been racist you oppose this ordination and the reason for it there was no

00:39:49.460 text of him calling him any names. There wasn't any evidence brought forward. It was literally

00:39:54.200 simply because the congregation did not quite vote to the level to ordain him that the reason

00:40:00.220 for that must have been racism. Right. So you congregation did not vote to approve this black

00:40:06.660 elder candidate to actually approve him with an 81% vote so that he would be ordained as a pastor

00:40:12.580 this church and um and this particular white man in the congregation who had a petition and was kind

00:40:19.880 of getting people on board with not voting for him um his reason for doing that must have been

00:40:26.000 racism and more broadly was concerns about transparency at the church the absence of the

00:40:30.340 vetted elders there was some maligning of a previous longtime former pastor that had been

00:40:34.660 there this bob codwell so they had concerns it's like i think of uh david platt and mclean baptist

00:40:40.820 huge church lots of resources and there's a shadow kind of elders and government there

00:40:45.640 and so this man said hey i have concerns let's forestall maybe the installation of this man i'm

00:40:50.280 not sure if he's the right fit and him doing that the verdict was from this kind of shadow elder

00:40:55.160 group must be racism racism must be stamped out and they put them under church discipline

00:40:59.280 yep so for the guys in the comments who are saying well it seems like a double standard here

00:41:03.120 um this is uh hopefully this clears it up for you and if it doesn't um well then you're wrong

00:41:10.660 but uh the difference is not that one is pre-judgment of a black guy this pastor who or

00:41:17.020 you know elder candidate who was up for eldership who didn't get the vote and uh that the white you

00:41:21.960 know guy in the congregation was saying hey i don't think we should vote for him because i have

00:41:25.340 concerns about character and teaching capacity and blah blah blah blah blah and and then you know

00:41:29.220 people just assumed that the white guy's being racist against this elder candidate because he

00:41:33.680 happens to be a black elder candidate the reason why that pre-judgment assuming the white guy's

00:41:38.180 being racist is different than the prejudgment i described in the case of a black doctor the

00:41:43.180 difference is not prejudgment towards a black man is acceptable and prejudgment towards this white

00:41:48.020 man is not acceptable here's this is going to blow your mind this is a shocking revelation

00:41:52.380 the difference that makes one immoral and one acceptable is not the color of those two guys

00:41:57.820 skin but that one prejudgment is true and the other one is false let me say that again one was

00:42:06.080 true and the other one was false so when i say hey if there's two doctors and i don't know either

00:42:12.840 one from adam but i know statistically speaking statistically speaking and and i'm not celebrating

00:42:19.300 i'm not like yay i love this i wish i wish it wasn't this way but i recognize that in the year

00:42:24.300 of our lord 2024 in these united states of america that sadly because of of critical race theory and

00:42:31.940 anti-white discrimination which is on the books in universities when it comes to sat scores and

00:42:38.300 all these different things when i say hey i don't know either of these guys from adam but i know

00:42:44.040 statistically speaking there is a higher likelihood that the white guy had to earn his position by

00:42:50.620 merit and the black guy has a lower likelihood of having earned it fully by merit when i pre-judge

00:42:58.280 in that way, I'm making a prejudgment that's true. It's true. That is a statistical, factual, 1.00

00:43:07.700 accurate analysis. An entire book was just written, read it, by Jeremy Carl, right?

00:43:14.020 Anti-white discrimination. That is a true prejudgment. When this local church prejudged

00:43:21.040 that a white individual who had concerns about a black elder candidate, when they assumed that

00:43:27.560 his concerns were solely due to the color of this elder candidate's skin, the reason why that was

00:43:33.380 wrong is because it was not true. You see how that works? So it's not pre-judgment against the black

00:43:39.380 guy is wrong because he's black and pre-judgment against the white guy, you know, that's acceptable,

00:43:44.460 you know, but like, no, no, no, it's not about that. It's are your judgments. It's the same as 0.86

00:43:48.760 pre-judgment standards, same for judgment standards. So Matthew 7, what judgment is

00:43:54.700 permissible according to Christ himself, Matthew 7, verse 6, do not give to dogs what is holy or

00:44:00.320 to swine. Throw your pearls before swine. What kind of judgment is permissible in the mind of

00:44:05.360 Christ? Right judgments, accurate judgments. When you rightly judge, I'm not going to give pearls

00:44:11.780 to this person. When you make that judgment or decision, it's because you've made a judgment.

00:44:16.580 You've judged that this group of people, this person or this individual is a swine. I'm not 0.60

00:44:21.400 going to preach the gospel to this person for the 10,000th time and give what is holy to them

00:44:26.860 because they have denied it and trampled underfoot every single, again and again. And the same way

00:44:31.360 that Paul says, I will no longer go to the Jews, but instead I'm going to be an apostle to the

00:44:35.100 Gentiles. Like that was not unrighteous. That was not wicked. That was not sinful. But here's the

00:44:40.300 thing. The reason why that kind of judgment is permissible is because it was a right judgment.

00:44:45.000 You're judging something rightly. So too, making a prejudgment. Now we should be careful with

00:44:50.260 pre-judgment. But there are times, inescapable moments in our lives, we're making a pre-judgment.

00:44:55.840 Every time you choose a doctor, you are making a pre-judgment. Why'd you choose that one and not

00:45:00.480 the others? There's some kind of reason. I actually had a biblically permissible reason

00:45:06.080 and a factually, statistically true reason. Now, for those who make a pre-judgment that is

00:45:12.320 solely based on some kind of bitterness or inner heart hatred with no statistical analysis,

00:45:19.460 would then yeah then that's a that was would be a wrong prejudgment so that's the difference

00:45:23.640 um all right so we got to get to these uh video clips let's go to the first one

00:45:27.500 just say it's going to become worse and worse but in him talking about we're looking he's a green 0.84

00:45:34.060 we've got to have this dictator come that just blows me away chad that he so it is really a sad 1.00

00:45:41.860 thing to watch and to see there's a lot of great brothers in christ that are like what on earth 0.85

00:45:47.180 like, our black brothers in Christ that are like, what on earth are you talking about?

00:45:51.000 Where are you going with this? 0.98

00:45:52.440 It's absolutely demonic.

00:45:53.920 Yeah, it's demonic.

00:45:55.180 They're quoting Aristotle, you know?

00:45:57.240 Why don't they quote him on homosexuality and all these other things, you know?

00:46:01.100 But they're quoting Aristotle, basically, the quote Aristotle's saying, 0.98

00:46:05.120 you really can't have a democracy if you have different ethnic groups. 1.00

00:46:08.560 And they're saying he was right, you know? 1.00

00:46:10.460 And, of course, these guys are white, so I guess they want to be around just a lot of white guys, 0.57

00:46:14.020 which is, to me, it just breaks my heart 0.82

00:46:17.560 because I don't know if there's anything more beautiful

00:46:19.800 than the gospel itself and the effects of the gospel

00:46:23.700 when you see people in our fellowship.

00:46:27.440 We have all different races, African-American and Asian

00:46:33.100 and Hispanic, a lot of Hispanic people and white folks and so forth.

00:46:36.480 And I love seeing different ethnic groups worship together

00:46:40.260 because it's, you know, what Aristotle's saying,

00:46:42.880 you know what? Guess what? Without Jesus, yeah, nation's going to be against nation,

00:46:48.580 which is ethnos against ethnos in the Greek. Without Christ, there isn't really hope for

00:46:52.720 this world. But in Christ, guess what it says in Revelation 7, 9 through 14, when John sees this

00:46:57.780 great multitude that no man can number, they're united as one in Christ in the heavenly kingdom.

00:47:03.540 They've come out of great tribulation. And the elder says to him, these are those that have

00:47:06.960 come out of great tribulation, and they've been cleansed by the blood of the Lamb. So these guys,

00:47:12.260 you know they're not gonna really want to be in heaven because guess what not with jesus and all

00:47:16.220 the different ethnic groups because guess what it works in jesus because we're all of the same blood

00:47:20.860 all right eric nice softball for you do you think you could respond to that do you think you can

00:47:26.880 handle it so he raised some tough objections you up for it yeah it's tough well you put some

00:47:32.300 pressure on me when you said that your six-year-old daughter could answer these and then

00:47:35.920 i mean how do you fail at that how do you fail yeah yeah so i i think there's a few things to

00:47:43.180 notice uh and i would comment on the video and also kind of similar responses that i saw on

00:47:47.780 social media number one is the superlatives that are used to open right it's like this is demonic

00:47:53.260 this is horrible it breaks my heart you notice how much of that and how little actual argumentation

00:47:58.480 is happening um so that would be one of my you know explain what you mean okay why do you think

00:48:04.320 it's demonic you didn't actually present an argument for that and i did happen to listen

00:48:07.820 to more of the interview and they never really get to that i'm sorry yeah yeah it was it was it

00:48:13.340 was a trial um so i think there's that portion of it the other thing is the assumption uh that a lot

00:48:19.100 of people are making about christian nationalists that they're saying what we're saying is we only

00:48:23.680 want white people in the kingdom and that is of course not what we're saying um i think also the

00:48:30.480 understanding of ethnos right so if we're talking about and i'm just going to use the

00:48:36.460 dictionary definition here but ethnicity as a social group of people who share a common culture

00:48:41.640 language and religion who have distinctive characteristics that differentiate them from

00:48:46.780 other groups um when they're quoting in revelation or referring to revelation that there are multiple

00:48:54.240 nations worshiping before the throne it never says that the nations are no longer distinct

00:48:59.000 and no longer says that they lose all those

00:49:01.600 attributes about what it meant for them to be

00:49:03.440 an Ethiopian Christian for example

00:49:05.160 yes we'll be part of the 0.86

00:49:07.580 same kingdom no I

00:49:09.460 don't I you know I

00:49:10.900 am rejoicing actually in the fact

00:49:13.600 that those brothers will be there

00:49:15.380 with us and yet for

00:49:17.460 all that we still have our

00:49:19.300 distinctions that God put there

00:49:21.300 and so we don't have to hate the

00:49:23.360 distinction it's actually a

00:49:25.400 good thing and so I think

00:49:27.320 there there's also a confusion i think in many christians minds um of of uh national political

00:49:35.100 realm versus the church so i think they have some kind of idea that like our church is just white

00:49:41.740 people i mean we have black people we have portricans we have cubans we have mexicans right

00:49:46.540 so on that we're not actually disagreeing with the fact that all those people are welcome

00:49:51.820 in the ecclesiastical body of the church right um when you look at the nation however and we're

00:49:58.700 saying okay can you have for example the easy one is islam islam or probably hinduism can you bring 0.91

00:50:06.780 these people in and allow them to build their statues to whatever calf god they're building 0.86

00:50:11.060 their statue to can you allow that to happen in your nation and it not tear the nation apart

00:50:17.100 can you have this syncretistic pluralism?

00:50:20.420 And I think that's where they're actually just not making a distinction

00:50:23.440 between the nation and the church

00:50:25.680 and how you have to protect each one according,

00:50:29.800 you know, the nation.

00:50:30.900 You have the civil magistrate who carries the sword.

00:50:33.400 It's not the realm of the church.

00:50:36.220 But again, I don't think that they're even working on a paradigm

00:50:40.480 that allows them to think in categories that way.

00:50:43.660 Right.

00:50:44.220 Let me, so my two cents,

00:50:46.000 a couple things that i would pick out i think that's everything you said is good the superfluous

00:50:51.040 of um you know breaks my heart and demonic and all those kinds of things but what i would add

00:50:56.160 is um right there at the very end when he said you know these guys won't want to be in heaven

00:50:59.180 you know because i look at revelation and it says you know that there was a great sea and a great

00:51:02.740 number you know greater than anybody could count um you know made up of every tribe tongue and

00:51:07.380 nation um yeah that's great but um i thought we already went through this with the woke wars of

00:51:12.380 you know, 2017, 18, 19, 20, heaven does not have to be, the ethnic diversity of heaven does not

00:51:20.980 have to be represented in every single individual local church, right? It's, I mean, Votie Bauckham's

00:51:28.080 church doesn't represent heaven. He's currently with Conrad Mbewe in Zambia, and I have it on

00:51:33.420 good authority that there's not a whole lot of Asians or white people, you know, or Hispanics

00:51:37.780 in their church their church is is as far as i know it is almost if not entirely black monoethnic

00:51:45.540 it's monoethnic there are only black people in that church and god is furious about it absolutely 0.98

00:51:50.620 you know you know that this is sin and you know if voddie bacham watched this he would you know 1.00

00:51:54.860 he'd be laughing right along with me and saying yeah of course this this is stupid um not every 0.99

00:51:59.580 individual local church has to be perfectly ethnically diverse it depends where are you 0.99

00:52:05.320 And who are you? Who are your people? Where are your people? Where do you live? If you live in

00:52:12.060 Oklahoma and it's a particular, you know, county that's predominantly white, your church, guess

00:52:17.300 what? Shocker, probably going to be predominantly white. If you live in a border state and there's

00:52:24.400 a lot of Hispanic people there, then you're probably going to have a lot of Hispanic people

00:52:27.780 in your church. That's all that is perfectly permissible. There is nothing. So this idea that,

00:52:32.140 well heaven is perfectly diverse and so these guys aren't going to like heaven that's not what

00:52:35.600 we're talking about um of course heaven is going to be diverse because god is saving christ is

00:52:40.340 saving people from among every tribe tongue and nation the gospel is is going out like a little

00:52:44.640 bit of leaven through the whole batch of dough like mustard seed growing into an earth encompassing

00:52:48.640 tree and reaching all the nations and praise god for it but all the nations being in heaven doesn't

00:52:53.320 mean that all the nations have to be in our country that's the point the point is that that um heaven

00:53:01.000 right but you do not have the apostle paul uh going to ethiopia and saying you need because

00:53:06.620 all the nations will be in heaven then you need all the nations in your country now that is not

00:53:13.380 in scripture some uh reasonable degree of of immigration that's legal and i as a christian

00:53:21.280 nationalist if i was christian caesar for the day i would argue that it would need to be um

00:53:25.920 it would need to be legal not just legal but there would need to be a profession of christ

00:53:29.360 from the adults, at least from the parents. So they would need to be Christian immigrants, 0.88

00:53:34.060 legal immigrants, and they would also need to be contributing immigrants, meaning that they're

00:53:38.960 coming and they're bringing a skill that our country currently has need of. They're engineers,

00:53:42.860 they're doctors, they're whatever. If you have something to contribute, if you are going through

00:53:50.000 legal process, and if you're not coming to just, you know, so that we can import Hinduism,

00:53:55.800 but you're coming as someone who loves the Lord Jesus Christ and loves America and wants to be

00:54:01.800 an American and not just as a set of propositions or an economic zone but you've done your homework

00:54:07.440 you've read the Declaration of Independence you've looked at American history and you're like I love

00:54:11.600 that your people will be my people and your God I've given up Hinduism your God will be my God

00:54:17.920 I want to be a Christian I see Christ the triune God is the one true God I want to be a Christian 0.92

00:54:22.700 your God will be my God and your people, your history, your heritage. I love that. And I know

00:54:27.340 it's not mine, but I hope by God's grace, generations down the line, that my children's

00:54:30.840 children would be Americans because America is wonderful and Christ is glorious. And also I'm

00:54:37.020 an engineer and I can fix that bridge over there. And all right, we'll take 250,000 of you a year

00:54:42.900 for the next hundred years and no more. That is not racist. And you can say how you can put it,

00:54:51.560 whatever it breaks i'm sure the good fight if they listen that they're like i probably just broke

00:54:56.440 both of their hearts their hearts are just wide open just broken but i'm sorry that that is not

00:55:01.220 none of that is racist that uh countries are allowed to do that and and the last thing i'll

00:55:06.200 say is the aristotle thing that you know torba and con shared and and then i read it was it was

00:55:11.220 torba you know sharing it and then it was con resharing torba saying aristotle was right and

00:55:15.240 then i reshared con um but here's the thing uh number one no one said aristotle was right about

00:55:21.100 everything he ever said no one said that once two there were three components we talked about

00:55:27.760 this last week three components in that portion um that's talking about aristotle's thought on

00:55:32.700 this matter three components two explicit one implicit the two explicit is this um multi-ethnic

00:55:38.500 nation second democracy is the form of government so when eric khan says aristotle's right he's not

00:55:46.160 saying aristotle's right multi-ethnic countries don't work ever no he's saying aristotle's right

00:55:51.600 and what aristotle said what did aristotle say multi-ethnic with a democratic raw democratic

00:55:57.580 form of government that devolves into an oligarchy which is what we currently have now

00:56:01.820 and then the third and i would argue that it's implicit but the third implicit element is

00:56:08.500 element number one multi-ethnic element number two democratic form of government element number

00:56:13.540 three, because it's Aristotle and he's not a Christian. The third is Christless. And what

00:56:19.160 have all these guys, Eric, I don't know if you remember this, it doesn't feel that long ago for

00:56:22.880 me, but what have they been insisting on for the last two years? They've told me, I don't know if

00:56:27.120 they told you, but they told me that if there's anything we cannot have, it's a Christian nation.

00:56:32.640 So I'm simply saying that if we can't have a Christian nation, I tried, I thought that was

00:56:38.200 a good idea. I threw my hat in the ring for a Christian nation that distinctly honors Christ,

00:56:43.260 that adopts a Christian preamble, like the Apostles' Creed to our Constitution. But I was 0.94

00:56:48.440 told by all these guys who were getting mad on X about you sharing Aristotle, these are the very

00:56:52.840 same guys who told us we cannot, under any circumstances, have a nation that is Christian.

00:56:57.640 There's no such thing. So if we're conceding to their point, not our point, their point,

00:57:04.320 that there's no such thing as a Christian nation, you cannot have a Christian nation, 0.77

00:57:07.420 and our nation is going to just devolve more and more into apostasy from Christ. So you're going 0.94

00:57:12.700 to have a Christless nation with a raw mob rule, kangaroo court, democratic form of government,

00:57:19.320 then yes, with those two ingredients, then the third ingredient is true. The more multi-ethnic 0.98

00:57:24.640 it is, the more factions and divisions you will probably have. 0.99

00:57:27.980 I'll give you Japan. Not a Christian nation. Democratic. 98% Japanese. And they are commodious. 1.00

00:57:33.660 They have safe cities. They have a lot of cohesion. So not Christian. It's not a Christian

00:57:37.980 nation it is democratically ruled and it's 98 monoethnic right and for the record what we're 0.56

00:57:43.640 saying is we're not saying oh you can't have different ethnicities but what we're saying is 0.69

00:57:48.100 um you can't have both you can't have different ethnicities democratic and christless so let's

00:57:55.120 let's be a christian nation that loves christ and has that as our common denominator be be rooted in

00:58:01.400 christ uh where it's not uh multiculturalism it's like stephen wolf talked about it's monoculture

00:58:07.500 there may be different ethnicities but there's one culture and the culture is a an anglo-protestant

00:58:13.160 culture anglo not meaning that you have to be white of skin but that you that you adopt that

00:58:18.500 that um that chrysidum brit distinctly british and certainly european protestant culture that

00:58:25.400 is hundreds centuries of years old it's tried and tested and true um one of the things that

00:58:31.760 stephen wolf said at the end of his talk at the new christian conference is he he said well here

00:58:35.260 are a few of my favorite anglo-protestants and he said clarence thomas is one of my favorite

00:58:39.120 anglo-protestants because he is for all intents and purpose purposes he he embodies that culture

00:58:45.820 that that that historic centuries old tried and true culture of anglo-protestantism that's that's

00:58:52.300 what we're saying is um but to share that aristotle thing that says um hey multi all these

00:59:00.080 different nationalities under one roof with a democratic form of government where your leaders

00:59:05.900 oligarch leaders are going to be vying they're going to be bringing up grievances to vie for

00:59:11.420 this person's uh this group's uh preference for to get their vote against this group that is a

00:59:17.240 recipe if it's criceless if it's an oligarchy mob rule democracy and it's um and it's all these

00:59:23.540 different nationalities under one roof without you know generations to assimilate um then that

00:59:29.900 is going to be divisive that's what i took aristotle saying there i we were not making

00:59:35.360 zero comment on everything that aristotle has ever said we were making a comment on what he said

00:59:40.520 right there being shared on x and and i'll say it again aristotle was right he was right

00:59:46.340 eric yeah i thought the other thing i think that is in play here is the conception that

00:59:53.080 stephen brings up right in his book christian nationalism it's actually very simple but it's

00:59:58.680 amazing how this gets warped in our culture today. So he makes the assertion that a nation

01:00:03.560 ought to be able to act in the interest of its own interests. And it's funny because in America,

01:00:09.660 we're basically brainwashed to think that we're not allowed to do that. So you're not allowed to

01:00:14.780 restrict immigration to people who would benefit you. In other words, you're not allowed to restrict

01:00:19.940 immigration in a way that would benefit the nation because the nation should have no interest. 0.86

01:00:23.920 um and it's you can see the double standard too because obviously like we have all these

01:00:29.560 communities you know if if you're in america and you're for the black community that's fine

01:00:34.220 and you can pick any number you know the chicano movement uh you know mexicans in america who are

01:00:41.320 all for their culture it's fine you can do that anybody can do that but again the moment that you

01:00:45.940 say americans ought to act in the american national interests and to rush dunity's point

01:00:50.640 he saw like america is a anglo-protestant nation and that is largely european and british

01:00:58.300 uh you know and that's fine for us to say hey we want more people who embody what we believe

01:01:04.380 about a nation there's actually no problem with saying that that's what you want to do

01:01:09.560 and i would say the same thing um if you're in uganda if they say this is the uganda value

01:01:15.000 these are our people culture language religion this is who we are if you don't like that you can

01:01:19.420 go somewhere else there's no problem with them doing that and i applaud them for doing that

01:01:24.180 hungary poland they're all entitled to do that but i think that the disease and it's a suicidal

01:01:30.600 condition of the west is that we believe we have to be destroyed the only way to atone for our 0.79

01:01:36.320 quote past sins is that we have to be destroyed and we have to actually encourage our own death

01:01:41.200 you're so i think the challenge here is getting people to wake up and to and this is by the way

01:01:48.460 king's hall season three one of the big reasons we've looked back to christendom and we're looking

01:01:54.160 at nations like portugal the world's first global empire these guys did not believe that they were

01:02:00.860 the scourge of the earth and that they ought to just die because they were so horrible and they

01:02:06.020 ought to let their country be taken over no they were like we're going to build christendom we're 0.99

01:02:10.300 going to be christ every corner of the globe we truly believe um that our culture is distinct and

01:02:16.980 unique and we love it and the spanish you know just to our east they're allowed to believe that

01:02:22.320 about their culture too that's fine and we're not going to war with them but we're doing you know

01:02:26.660 we're doing us we have a distinct culture and we're proud of that um even when you get to guys

01:02:31.220 like martin lloyd jones people ask him they said are you no longer a welshman because you're a

01:02:36.100 christian and he said well i will say this i'm a christian first but i'm a welshman close second

01:02:42.120 like he was very proud of being Welsh and I read that and I read his biography it's a banner of

01:02:47.920 truth and I said that's beautiful that's great when I hear Chuck Knox saying you know give me

01:02:52.920 the black church or I die I have no problem with that's fine what I have a problem with is that

01:02:58.860 as Anglo-American Protestants we have to hate ourselves and I think what people are going to 0.97

01:03:04.600 have to face is you've got to get over that you've been lied to you've been propagandized and

01:03:09.860 catechized by the wicked regime state and i would just encourage people when you see you know me or

01:03:15.980 you retweeting something that aristotle said you just have to have this thought maybe we've been

01:03:20.700 wrong maybe the way that we've believed that culture and ethno should work in america really

01:03:26.720 for the last you know 60 years maybe we're wrong maybe that's a historical a non-historical way to

01:03:33.380 look at cultures and then from there just be willing to to hear out the other side of the

01:03:37.960 argument the problem is it's never going to happen when you've got people who said no you're

01:03:42.620 automatically a racist anathematized and really what these guys are trying to do is say don't

01:03:47.700 listen to them they're dangerous you know whatever and uh you know i think that's going to kill the

01:03:54.140 conversation or has the potential to um and but that's why i would drive people back well did

01:03:58.680 they make an argument did they make a coherent argument in that video my answer would be absolutely

01:04:03.600 not. Nope. Yep. Well said. Um, we're going to go to our last commercial break and then we're

01:04:09.400 going to come back and we're going to deal with, um, one, maybe two more clips, but we also want

01:04:13.720 to take a little bit of time, uh, to address some of the questions from our live audience. So guys,

01:04:19.140 uh, do us a favor, just like last week, if you were with us, uh, go ahead and, uh, use this next

01:04:25.080 segment. And even during the commercial break to start writing in questions. Um, you need to make

01:04:29.840 it clear that this is a question uh because some kind sometimes you know and i'm not i'm not hating

01:04:34.600 on you for it but sometimes you uh the chat uh has absolutely nothing to do with uh the topic at hand

01:04:40.740 and you guys just start arguing with each other and that's fine i get it i would probably do that

01:04:44.080 too uh but if it's meant to be addressed to eric and myself and wes and it's something that you

01:04:48.820 want us to address then uh please put it in in a clear format say this is a question for you guys

01:04:53.980 you know whatever so that we actually get to it so that i know you're not just arguing with you

01:04:57.700 one of the trolls in the chat, which today there are many, many. All right. So here we go. Commercial

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01:07:38.720 All right, one more quick shameless plug.

01:07:40.860 We've got a four and a half, almost five page article this week.

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01:07:46.020 And there's always going to be an article that corresponds with the Wednesday live stream.

01:07:49.840 So this week, our very own Wesley Todd, he wrote the article.

01:07:53.260 And so if you're wanting, you know, some of the quotes that are in here, some of the scripture,

01:07:56.040 the charts that we showed earlier in the episode are in here. So if you want the article for this

01:08:02.460 week on actually what we're doing in this article, what Wesley did was provided an actual biblical

01:08:07.840 definition of racism and then juxtapose that with what racism has devolved into today. And what is

01:08:16.540 racism today? The source, we made it up. We made it up. What is racism today? It's a made up

01:08:23.540 pretend sin. That is 99% of it. And so the Bible actually does talk about sinful forms of

01:08:30.020 prejudgment, and Wes does a good job getting into that and what that actually is. But what you'll

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01:08:42.960 is that literally 99% of what is going to be accused of as racism today is not actually

01:08:52.120 something that the Bible would condemn as a sin.

01:08:54.940 So we're not saying it doesn't exist at all,

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01:09:06.740 patreon.com forward slash right response ministries.

01:09:09.180 You guys are putting some good questions in the chat.

01:09:11.540 I see that, appreciate it.

01:09:13.060 Let's go ahead and get to at least one more clip

01:09:15.140 and then we'll come to the questions.

01:09:17.200 And it's not biblical, Chad.

01:09:18.460 I'll give you a great quote from Stephen Wolf,

01:09:20.840 who made the case for Christian nationalism.

01:09:23.340 He's like the poster boy

01:09:24.320 of a lot of the Christian nationalist movement.

01:09:26.700 And he admits that he doesn't really know theology

01:09:29.320 in the Bible very well.

01:09:31.160 In fact, listen to what he says in his book.

01:09:33.160 I assume the reformed theological tradition

01:09:35.800 because he's a Calvinist.

01:09:37.680 And so I make little effort to exegete biblical text.

01:09:41.560 Some readers will complain that I rarely appeal to scripture

01:09:44.680 to argue for my positions.

01:09:46.880 I understand the frustration, but allow me to explain.

01:09:49.740 I am neither a theologian nor a biblical scholar.

01:09:53.260 I have no training in moving from scriptural interpretation to theological articulation.

01:09:59.080 Well, then don't write a book as to how, you know, what, you know,

01:10:01.880 you think the Christian worldview should be on nations, you know?

01:10:05.860 Yeah, what are you making an argument for if not from the text of Scripture?

01:10:10.080 This is from a worldly viewpoint, which is exactly what it is.

01:10:12.580 Unless you don't believe in Sola Scriptura and you're throwing that out the window.

01:10:15.700 Yeah, this is the flesh right here.

01:10:19.220 Wow.

01:10:20.500 It's just so sad.

01:10:21.700 It's hard to watch.

01:10:23.180 Eric, do you want to?

01:10:23.920 I've got plenty to say, but do you want to address it?

01:10:26.720 Yeah, I've seen this a lot, actually.

01:10:29.080 The whole contention that Stephen is making, he's making a distinction on categories.

01:10:33.980 If I'm doing political theory, then I am not doing exegetical biblical work.

01:10:41.520 So in his mind, it's categorical, and I think that's a fair distinction.

01:10:44.940 It's a distinction that's been made throughout even church history and political history, especially.

01:10:50.900 But I think taking that to say that Stephen doesn't know the Bible is not what Stephen is advocating here, or he's not saying I'm biblically illiterate and I wrote this book.

01:11:02.820 And so you see the host there unable to follow that distinction and then just saying, well, it's clearly not biblical because he says he doesn't know the Bible.

01:11:11.720 So if he doesn't know the Bible, he's writing an unbiblical thing about a nation, which I think 0.87

01:11:16.740 is historically kind of ignorant and a bad argument. Yep. Let me add something with that. 0.96

01:11:27.760 This is something you guys, everybody listening, you have to get this through your head. You just

01:11:31.680 need to understand. When Stephen Wolf says, I'm not a theologian, that's because Stephen Wolf

01:11:37.460 still operates, as very few do, and I'm including myself here, so I'll happily confess because it's

01:11:44.040 true. Stephen Wolfe is a professional. He is an academic. He is an expert. So when he says,

01:11:52.960 I'm not a theologian, what he means is that he is not a certified expert. What he means is he

01:12:00.000 does not have a PhD in theology. For Stephen Wolfe, that's what a theologian is. So when he

01:12:06.180 says i'm not a theologian it's the way that our fathers within the reform it's the way everyone

01:12:11.120 thought until very recently so it's um there there are tons of guys you know tom thomas jefferson or

01:12:18.400 you know or or whatever or you know george washington or or these guys they were said i

01:12:24.960 am not um i'm not a theologian or i'm not um but they were still brilliant men right or wrong they

01:12:31.060 were brilliant men um stephen wolf knows theology um a thousand times better than the two men in

01:12:39.360 that video sadly sadly he is he is uh 10 million times the theologian that those guys are uh the

01:12:47.000 reason why he won't call himself a theologian is because stephen wolf is an old soul he is of the

01:12:52.140 sort um that still subscribes to an old way of life when uh when titles meant something when

01:12:59.920 And the reason why I said, I'll admit, because it doesn't serve me, but I will admit, under 0.76

01:13:06.340 Christian nationalism, you see on X, under Christian nationalism, this will not happen 0.64

01:13:10.300 anymore. 0.58

01:13:10.680 To be completely frank, under Christian nationalism, this is my earnest, I mean this from the bottom

01:13:16.180 of my heart, my earnest prayer.

01:13:17.860 My prayer is that within my children or at least my grandchildren's lifetime, that Christian

01:13:23.780 nationalism truly would be achieved, that we would have a great Christian nation, and

01:13:27.680 that under that it'd be all of Christ for all of life, that all of our institutions, every single

01:13:32.060 sphere and realm of life would be drastically improved to such a degree that no one in their

01:13:37.580 right mind would listen to Joel Webin on YouTube. Do you know why? The reason why I have a YouTube

01:13:44.280 following, the reason why Kings Hall, not to not pick it on you guys, but like the reason why

01:13:50.280 is because all of our theologians we have them but they all sold us out they all they all stabbed

01:13:59.480 us in the back they all turned on us that's the problem and so the reason why we're listening to

01:14:04.440 unaccredited guys because that's what it is these two guys in the video just for the record

01:14:08.360 these guys those guys are definitely unaccredited i can tell you that but so you know but the reason

01:14:14.640 why you're listening to unaccredited people is because the credentialed people, they betrayed

01:14:21.400 you. That's why. So when Stephen Wolf says, I'm not a theologian, he's not saying, I don't know

01:14:25.700 theology. He knows theology better than I do, probably better than Eric does, and certainly

01:14:30.620 better than those two men in that video that we just watched. But when he says, I'm not a theologian,

01:14:35.300 he means by trade. He means, I do not have a PhD in theology. And he still probably at least knows

01:14:42.080 that sola scriptura does not mean

01:14:44.100 scripture is the only source of authority.

01:14:46.840 It is the highest and only

01:14:48.080 infallible source. It's so funny

01:14:49.960 for him to act like, oh, well, sola scriptura,

01:14:52.400 you have to derive all your arguments from

01:14:54.200 scripture. No, tradition is an authority,

01:14:56.360 it's just not over and above. Scripture

01:14:58.180 is the highest authority, so they do

01:15:00.220 not even know the definition,

01:15:02.100 and this one is commonly misconstrued, the definition

01:15:04.280 of the solas. Scripture alone

01:15:06.480 has the highest authority, not the only,

01:15:08.620 but the highest. Sola scriptura is not

01:15:10.320 saying that scripture is the only authority because scripture itself testifies to other

01:15:13.360 authorities kings parents and pastors and all these so it's the only infallible authority is

01:15:18.860 the highest authorities you're absolutely right uh but then the last thing i was going to say is

01:15:22.200 arguing from the reformed tradition um what stephen wolf is he's saying calvin did the exegesis

01:15:27.700 he's saying luther has done the exegesis the exegesis has been done and so then i'm taking

01:15:33.280 the reformed tradition and then i'm arguing for a political a political theory off of that which

01:15:40.100 well, it's Calvin's theory, from the Reformed tradition.

01:15:43.020 I'm not going to rewrite every other book to get to this book.

01:15:47.000 And that's part of the reason, to be honest, that's part of the reason why the church,

01:15:50.120 evangelicals, are constantly regressing.

01:15:53.020 And I'll admit, as a Baptist, we are the worst, the absolute worst with this, 1.00

01:15:58.180 is because we despise tradition.

01:16:00.380 And we can't ever stand on the shoulders of giants who came before us

01:16:03.780 and pushed the ball further down the field.

01:16:05.640 Instead, what we have to do is we have to start from square one,

01:16:09.360 do all the work ourselves and and what's the final analysis well we do all the work that our

01:16:14.320 fathers are already done and we do it more poorly than they did oh i can't i can't trust you know

01:16:19.580 that that calvin was right so i need to go back and i need to do this and i need to do and then

01:16:23.640 and then what you end up with is like a paper mache equivalent of calvin's institutes and all

01:16:29.140 these guys you know because you couldn't just you couldn't just that's what wolf is doing he's

01:16:33.760 saying i'd like to make some progress here so i'm going to stand on the shoulder of giants i'm not

01:16:38.420 going to write bondage in the will again it's already been written i'm not going to write the

01:16:42.900 institutes of the christian religion again it's already been written i'm not going to do that

01:16:47.000 that work has already been done so then from the basis of that work the reformed tradition i'm then

01:16:52.360 going to argue how would the reformed tradition apply consistently within the political realm

01:16:57.940 with a polis and that's what he does but unfortunately people read that introduction

01:17:03.940 from wolf and it's usually baptists i'll admit um and baptists are so today's baptists modern 0.98

01:17:10.780 baptists are so stupid that like i like i can't even i won't even name them i'll try to be kind 0.98

01:17:15.500 but like the number of times i've seen it on x where they're like look steve a wolf right here 1.00

01:17:19.580 he's telling on himself and conceding the point admitting that uh that he he uh doesn't he's not

01:17:24.380 arguing from the scripture and these are like these are reformed guys too i'm seeing reformed

01:17:29.180 baptist like oh guys guys that i love that are brothers and i'm like oh no like like you're

01:17:35.500 telling the entire world that your iq is less than 85 why would you do that brother like i want you

01:17:40.640 to continue to have a job i want you to be able to preach the word of god and be qualified like 1.00

01:17:43.940 why are you telling everyone that you're an idiot what like aren't like aren't you embarrassed i 0.99

01:17:48.340 like i've seriously like there's so many times i'm thumbing through x and i'm looking at my my 1.00

01:17:53.580 my reformed baptist brothers and reading there and i'm like oh and i physically like like sometimes

01:17:59.760 my wife will say like like what is it because i'll start turning red i'm so embarrassed i'm like

01:18:04.560 dying of cringe um so anyways that that just that clip but that was pretty much it like those are

01:18:11.180 the clips and it's just more like that you can go watch the video from you know good fight ministries

01:18:15.120 but it's just that's all it is it's just uh the most cliche uh things that steven wolf and we

01:18:21.320 have addressed again and again and again and again with zero substance um it really is uh

01:18:27.480 brian so they said this on x the other day um he said he said i finally figured out what steven

01:18:32.020 wolf is he's an iq test and the promise of god like that's what steven wolf is is he's an iq test

01:18:38.480 and uh and the results are devastating they're not looking good they're not looking good eric

01:18:44.060 anything you want to add yeah the other thing i think is interesting going back to calvin you

01:18:48.740 know, Stephen was doing this in response to a lot of the Aristotle stuff. He said, you know,

01:18:54.340 Calvin required that his students read Aristotle. It's not that he was favorable to everything

01:18:59.520 Aristotle said. You can look at early church fathers, lots of people. So I find it kind of

01:19:04.160 odd that reform, especially reform pastors are like, how could you possibly lean on anything

01:19:09.300 that Aristotle said? You know, and one of the things I pointed out in one of our podcasts

01:19:13.820 following that whole incident, that dust up, I said, you know, R.C. Sproul has like a six-part

01:19:19.280 series on Ligonier on their website on Aristotle. It's quite good. But I don't remember anybody

01:19:25.240 freaking out when, you know, R.C. Sproul did that. And so I would just point people back to the past.

01:19:32.820 Yes, sola scriptura means it's the ultimate authority and infallible, as Wes pointed out.

01:19:38.020 That doesn't mean that we disregard everything else that's happened. Certainly the early church

01:19:42.040 fathers for the most part you'll find that they were very influenced by plato aristotle they had

01:19:48.220 read these things later in church history obviously people had read virgil um even the

01:19:53.580 founding fathers like the most read book among them was plutarch's lives because obviously they

01:19:58.980 felt that there were important things to be gleaned this would have included people like jonathan

01:20:02.740 edwards so i would just encourage people uh maybe steer away or be cautious kind of this biblicist

01:20:09.960 argument of, well, I don't see

01:20:12.200 the words Christian nation or Christian

01:20:13.980 prince in any particular

01:20:15.920 verse, therefore it can't be biblical.

01:20:18.180 It's just not typically a historical

01:20:19.880 Christian way of looking at the world. 0.99

01:20:22.600 Right. Yep. Well said.

01:20:24.400 Alright, let's take some questions here at the end.

01:20:26.960 What do we got, Nathan?

01:20:27.860 You'll have to scroll through.

01:20:32.120 Maybe start from the top, so the

01:20:33.740 ones asked first. Yeah, we should start from the top.

01:20:36.520 Prioritize.

01:20:37.000 uh are you are you pointing out one with the cursor i can i can tackle the top one quick

01:20:44.680 the question is from august doesn't this whole discussion boil down to bearing false witness

01:20:49.640 kind of when you call someone racist you would be bearing false witness against them

01:20:53.320 and i think that's fair and i would add uh when we take away from god's law that is say something

01:20:59.060 that is a sin and call it not a sin that would be antinomianism but when we add to it and we

01:21:03.940 add additional categories when we say, if you do X, you're in sin, you're in transgression of God

01:21:09.000 and his law and his character, but that's not actually in the scriptures. It's not actually

01:21:13.520 a violation of God's law. That would be the sin, not the heresy necessarily, but the sin of

01:21:18.660 legalism. And so, yes, it is a sin to bind the consciences of Christians by calling them a name, 0.66

01:21:24.900 so bearing false witness, you're being racist, you're committing the sin of racism, when in

01:21:30.400 fact, all they've done is maybe cited a crime statistic or said, hey, I have some concerns

01:21:34.780 about immigration levels, this, that, or the other. So I would say at some level, you could

01:21:38.820 boil it down. I don't know if you would agree. Probably it does boil it down to you cannot bear

01:21:42.820 false witness against brothers that are not actually sinning against the commands of God.

01:21:48.500 What do you think, Eric? Does a lot of this boil down to bearing false witness?

01:21:53.720 I think, I agree. I think there is definitely false witness involved, but I also think you have

01:21:59.060 to factor in bad faith actors um and and the reason i factor that in is because several of

01:22:06.840 the people who were most vehemently opposed or vote you know vocal in attacking us um i had

01:22:14.020 reached out to several of them on twitter on x in dms and i said hey i think a lot of this if we

01:22:20.660 talked about it we might be able to clear it up and i didn't have a single person respond back

01:22:25.280 and say yeah i'd be willing to talk to you um it was pretty much you know one said i'm conflicted

01:22:31.180 i don't know that i can do that and i said well hold on you don't know that you can talk to

01:22:36.800 another brother in christ to get a better understanding of what his views are you don't

01:22:42.360 even think that you should do that what would prohibit you from doing that in fact again to

01:22:47.520 making claims that somebody's a racist i would probably want to be pretty sure i understood their

01:22:52.360 position before i said that so that's why i say like i i think there's just not a lot of in a lot

01:22:57.620 of these instances they're trying to destroy you they hate your ideas they don't like you

01:23:03.000 and they've already decided that and it's not really a fair fight in that way right yeah it's

01:23:08.640 it's not really that they think that we're racist um it's that they don't they already you know

01:23:14.560 decided they didn't like us two years ago because of our eschatology or because of what whatever

01:23:19.660 you know it was you know it was because of um post-millennialism it was because of patriarchy

01:23:24.820 right like these are the same guys you know um it's because you're not baptist enough you know

01:23:30.520 or like or whatever it is um you know you're too covenantal you know um so whether it be our

01:23:36.360 covenant theology or our you know gendered piety or um or uh an eschatology of optimism um they

01:23:46.220 already decided that we were borderline heretics and so they're just but they know they can't quite

01:23:51.280 make that argument because we're not so so they're just looking for uh the opportunity and so uh

01:23:56.660 racist is a good one size fits all you know like when in doubt if you can't beat someone

01:24:02.200 in a terms of uh you know an argument from from the basis of substance then call them a racist

01:24:08.460 that's it and and if you can't call them a racist and beat them if you're losing even at that 0.51

01:24:12.820 than write a rap song calling them racist we saw that apostate kevin young i was gonna say he did

01:24:18.980 that to jay chase davis he made a joke about monkey pox not at all related anything race

01:24:23.020 right call the racist nothing was even mentioned about race in this yeah no that that that is not

01:24:28.240 uh racist uh let's let's get our made-up sins you know categories correct that's uh that's

01:24:34.320 homophobia aka uh godly righteous indignation towards sodomy so yeah were you gonna say something

01:24:42.160 Eric? Yeah, I think the other thing is, just on our side, in our camp, one of the things we have

01:24:47.180 to be aware of is just the historical phenomenon. So if you go back to, say, France, and Jean

01:24:54.060 Raspell and his book, I'll think of the title here in a minute. Somebody's going to probably

01:25:00.520 put that in the comments. But Writing Against Immigration, it's a banned book. He was a Roman

01:25:05.080 Catholic, but Writing Against the Problems, you read that, and you go back and you say, okay,

01:25:10.380 well what did they say to him and to the other people who said maybe mass influx of islam into

01:25:15.180 france in the early 20th century is not a good idea immediately you're gonna it's the name calling

01:25:21.800 right you're a fascist um so i think just being aware of that like we're gonna have to navigate

01:25:27.000 those waters and realize that you know the the the pithy quote right when the their argument has 0.99

01:25:33.040 failed they'll call you a racist and a fascist and a nazi and all those things no it's coming

01:25:37.820 and, you know, more or less, a lot of times

01:25:40.600 that could mean you're over the target.

01:25:43.480 Yes. Okay, next

01:25:44.640 question. Camp of the Saints is the book, I'm sorry.

01:25:46.980 That's a good one. This was a

01:25:48.620 good question from Roland Scooter. He

01:25:50.520 said, question, can a Western Christian nation 0.56

01:25:52.540 still limit non-Western Christian

01:25:54.600 immigration? So let's say it's, you 0.99

01:25:56.700 know, these United States of America,

01:25:58.560 the person, you know, that wants

01:26:00.520 to immigrate into the country is

01:26:02.560 a Christian, so they're devoted 0.99

01:26:04.680 to Christ, but it's from a 0.85

01:26:06.540 non-Western nation. So it's a Christian Somalian, you know, or it's a Christian somebody from the 0.92

01:26:12.620 Sudan or whatever. Um, and so he's asking, you know, if they're Christian, uh, do you have to

01:26:18.620 let them in basically, or can you still limit and say, yeah, you're a Christian and that's great. 0.92

01:26:23.340 Um, but, um, you're from a non-Western, uh, uh, nation that's less compatible in terms of its 0.96

01:26:30.780 culture um with our nation and therefore we're going to take you know we're only going to take 1.00

01:26:37.180 10 000 christian somalians whereas we're willing to take um 500 000 uh christians from ireland

01:26:45.860 on an annual basis and my answer i'll let you guys go and i can give some reasons why but

01:26:50.800 my short answer would be um absolutely yes yep yes you're allowed to do that eric wes

01:26:57.020 yeah no i would say absolutely you are um certainly there's going to be a number of

01:27:02.620 factors right if it's like let's say somalia and you have you know 10 000 somalian christians who

01:27:09.600 are fleeing muslim persecution right that may factor into the decision right that you want to

01:27:14.640 be hospitable to brothers in christ but the question is can you and and i think the answer

01:27:20.000 is yes yeah the our the nation is under no moral obligation from god to let everyone who professes

01:27:26.900 Christ in. Nope. I was going to say too, commodious living, it is at some level, so we share Christ,

01:27:32.600 but it is a function of sharing other particulars. The family unit, a husband, wife, children,

01:27:37.400 they share a home, they share a diet, they share holidays, they share a religion, they share all

01:27:42.380 of those things and those help towards a commodious experience. The family writ large, broader going

01:27:47.960 to the national level, the more you share, so again, a language, a background, a heritage,

01:27:52.880 the holidays that you keep, the more that you share of that, the more generally, at an earthly

01:27:57.060 level, commodious life is going to be. And so telling people, even in earnest good people that

01:28:01.700 are Christians, I'm sorry, you barely speak this language. You don't know any of our holidays. 0.98

01:28:06.440 You have no familiarity with even how to drive here. It's just not going to improve life for you.

01:28:11.740 You're going to be out of place. You're not going to recognize anything. Me, myself, it's going to

01:28:16.120 be more difficult for us here in this nation. It's not a good deal for either end. And so we want you

01:28:20.160 to sanctify and work hard in your nation to make it better where you actually know what's going on

01:28:24.440 there. The Christian nation absolutely can, is not required to, but can, and maybe more often

01:28:29.800 than not should say, we're sorry, we're here for us. Amen. And that's the beauty of Christian

01:28:35.560 nationalism is, you know, one of the ways that it gets painted by, you know, the opponents of 0.58

01:28:41.520 Christian nationalism is that it's, you know, this exclusive white American thing. It's not.

01:28:47.680 When I say I'm a Christian nationalist, what I'm saying is that I want to see every single one of

01:28:53.020 the nations become Christian. And because I'm post-millennial, not only do I want to see it,

01:28:57.460 I believe that it will be done. I may not see it, may not be done in my lifetime,

01:29:01.580 but all the nations will be Christian. I absolutely believe that. So it's not arguing

01:29:07.800 for American superiority from here until the end of time, that if Christ tarries for 10,000 years,

01:29:14.700 that America will always exist and will always be the best nation on the planet. No, no, no. It's

01:29:18.380 just saying America should be Christian and so should Somalia and so should China and so all 0.80

01:29:22.960 of them should be Christian. And one way to ensure that the nations become Christian is if Christians 0.92

01:29:31.580 actually work on their nation. And for anybody who's like, well, that sounds a little bit 0.73

01:29:37.840 hypocritical, didn't you write fight by flight? I did, but I did not leave Somalia. I left California

01:29:44.360 to another state in my nation and it's also just for the record i've said it several times but

01:29:50.700 there's always new listeners who don't know it's the state that i was born and raised in yeah um

01:29:55.120 i didn't flee my heritage of california to go to foreign texas um no i actually i chose to flee

01:30:03.780 texas where i was born and raised um that i loved to go to california with a missionary mindset

01:30:09.600 because people needed jesus and then once i started having kids and grew up a little bit i realized

01:30:14.140 California is probably not the best place to raise a family. And yes, people here need Jesus,

01:30:19.840 but so do people in Texas. And Texas is where me, mom, and papa are, and grandma and grandpa.

01:30:24.880 I literally, both sides of the family, my wife's parents, my parents, in-laws, outlaws. I have 25

01:30:30.640 extended family members within a 12-mile radius of where I live now. We left all that when we went

01:30:36.060 to California because we had to go to the mission field. And after being in the mission field for

01:30:40.520 10 years, and for the record, leaving a healthy church behind that's doing great, I thought that

01:30:46.260 it was strategic and wise and prudent to come back home. That does not apply to being a native 1.00

01:30:52.020 born and raised Somalian and then saying, well, because things are hard and I'm a Christian,

01:30:59.360 I'm allowed to enter into whatever nation I want. 0.91

01:31:02.860 I'll go a little farther and say it could be a violation of the fifth commandment to have a

01:31:06.140 family that worked say your farm for five generations things get hard and you just leave

01:31:10.580 now there are legitimate cases canada the tyranny there but if it's just things are average and like

01:31:15.060 i'd rather make 60 000 driving uber in austin like no you might be dishonoring your fathers

01:31:19.160 who worked and tried to make your country better for generations before you right can i see real

01:31:24.300 quick josh haywood scroll down a little bit uh josh haywood he says let me see oh you know what

01:31:31.200 This is a good one.

01:31:31.780 Right before that, Johnny Johnston.

01:31:34.980 Johnstonton.

01:31:36.120 Johnstonton?

01:31:37.300 How would you say that?

01:31:38.040 Johnston?

01:31:38.900 Johnsonston?

01:31:39.980 Johnsonston. 1.00

01:31:40.580 Just so many Johns in there. 0.90

01:31:42.380 I love it.

01:31:43.640 Okay, he says,

01:31:44.340 Do any of you have an opinion on white Christian American men finding wives in Asia? 0.88

01:31:50.640 They are Christian, and by nature, really more so by culture, submissive, and want children, I think is what he's saying. 0.78

01:32:00.480 so they're submissive uh they want children while women here in america prefer cats and wine to 0.98

01:32:06.900 marriage and family 100 true i get it what do you guys think i have my answer but eric let's go to

01:32:12.420 you oh man the cats it always gets me taylor swift with her cat around her neck yeah it's

01:32:18.620 it's wonderful um yeah i still think that the you know most people i think naturally are going to

01:32:23.860 prefer uh people from their culture um again uh you know i think most people that i know who've

01:32:31.220 like traveled to foreign countries i know you mentioned china but i think sometimes we get

01:32:35.960 like this idealistic view that like european trad wives are just going to be so much better than

01:32:41.420 american women and so i think some of that is is i've known some of the situations where that's

01:32:47.420 happened and there's a lot of cultural issues that make even a marriage if it can make a culture not

01:32:52.580 commodious it can also do that in a marriage um so i think that can be you know maybe it's a little

01:32:58.200 larpy at least from my perspective that that there's so much better um but but even then you

01:33:03.580 you get into the cultural distinctives uh language barriers and stuff like that i think that would

01:33:09.940 make it more difficult so i would tend to say no i still think it's look there are good christian

01:33:15.620 women in america i know this for a fact and that's certainly where i would have my son start 0.99

01:33:21.160 Yeah.

01:33:21.780 That's good.

01:33:22.380 I was going to say, there are churches that exist, that are full of, like Eric said, good 1.00

01:33:27.220 godly women. 0.99

01:33:28.060 I would start there within the states where you share a language and share a culture, 0.94

01:33:31.260 but I don't see anything necessarily in the Bible that would prohibit it.

01:33:34.840 The Bible says that a man who finds a wife finds a good thing. 0.93

01:33:37.820 If you really, for some reason, feel like that is the best shot, I think the Bible would 1.00

01:33:42.220 permit.

01:33:42.720 Now, it may not necessarily be the best, but I don't think there's sinning in that.

01:33:47.000 Right.

01:33:47.420 I would have the same answer.

01:33:48.480 I think start at home. 1.00

01:33:49.400 but i understand what you're saying like america is just absolutely drenched in feminism and 0.99

01:33:55.200 sadly the church is no exception if the church is an exception it's only the exception in in the

01:34:00.260 sense that feminism will probably die slower it'll actually be worse in the church than in the world

01:34:05.940 because the world has moved on transgenderism has you know rosario butterfield said this

01:34:10.300 transgenderism for all intents and purposes has effectively killed feminism outside of the church

01:34:15.760 but the church, you know, good old church, always 10 years behind. Feminism is still alive and well. 0.92

01:34:20.680 There's really only one context in America where feminism still thrives at its peak, and that's 0.98

01:34:25.880 the evangelical church, sadly. So, I hear you, but Wes and Eric are also right, and I know pastorally,

01:34:33.220 you know, Eric knows pastorally, there are godly American Christian women who would love to be

01:34:38.440 wives and mothers. We know this because we pastor them, and so please do not pass over them,

01:34:44.520 to just get a Filipino wife or whatever. But all that being said, I agree with Wes. I know Eric

01:34:51.200 agrees as well. Because this is the big question. This would be another, you know, gotcha, we're

01:34:55.960 going to get you. He's about to hang himself. All right. Nope. You're not going to see me hang 0.99

01:35:01.040 myself because I'm perfectly fine with inter-ethnic marriage. Inter-ethnic marriage is

01:35:07.360 absolutely biblically permissible. And there are some groups, which I won't name. I don't think

01:35:12.940 it's helpful but there are some groups who have uh who have said so far as as actually saying 0.97

01:35:20.160 that the children of inter-ethnic marriages are um excrement and i don't like it i think that 0.59

01:35:29.980 that's sinful so um if you don't like that uh that's fine but that's not new chrysidim and 0.95

01:35:37.980 that is not right response that is not our position so you can use that and say i found 0.96

01:35:42.700 a smoking gun and you can take that smoking gun and you can shoot that ministry but not ours

01:35:48.460 because that is not our position we think that that statement the children of inter-ethnic 0.99

01:35:54.060 marriages are excrement we think that that statement is sinful uh we i think that that's 0.89

01:35:59.540 an excrement statement i think it's a terrible thing to say and i think it's also most importantly 0.87

01:36:04.240 it is objectively and biblically untrue so um if you want to marry a wife from an asian country 0.84

01:36:10.460 I believe it's permissible. 1.00

01:36:12.140 However, I do think that you should start at home.

01:36:15.320 I think you have an obligation,

01:36:16.920 especially to your sisters in Christ here,

01:36:19.240 who are often passed over by men who,

01:36:23.660 I don't know, who just...

01:36:25.860 They're 35 looking for a 22-year-old.

01:36:28.220 Exactly.

01:36:29.040 They've postponed marriage

01:36:30.480 and they have a prolonged adolescence

01:36:32.840 and those kinds of things. 0.99

01:36:33.560 So wife the woman at home first, if you can.

01:36:38.060 but yes of course it's permissible okay another question uh oh yeah okay so josh haywood coming

01:36:44.280 back to him uh given that we have broken all three of aristotle's rules for a successful

01:36:48.700 political structure uh what see what what do you see as what do you see as our option to see a

01:36:56.220 flourishing society form again then the second like you know you know my answer uh what do you

01:37:01.980 see as uh our options to see a flourishing society okay um yeah i don't think i don't think we're

01:37:08.960 going to be able to constitution even harder i do not believe we are going to our sacred democracy

01:37:13.140 our way out of this one um i'll get i'll give my answer it's going to be a caesar it's going to be

01:37:20.920 a monarchy i'm just i'm saying it i'll come back and explain that if you guys want more explanation

01:37:24.740 but i'm going to turn it to eric and like what do you think i don't think we're voting our way out

01:37:28.480 of this i just don't what do you think yeah i don't think so i i think an interesting case study

01:37:34.780 you know one of the things i like to do is go back in history and say like how how have people

01:37:38.560 tended to right the ship um and i think there's a number of ways to answer that question i think

01:37:43.380 one of the things we have to realize and it's it's hard as americans to realize this but somebody

01:37:48.700 like franco in spain recognized this in his day that perhaps a lot of the ideals that they had

01:37:54.640 imbibed in in what is our conception of democracy today um is really from the french revolution

01:38:01.920 right and and so a lot of it was like well we need to obviously they're going to have one solution

01:38:07.220 for taking back their country um but i think you have to at least look at it because it was

01:38:11.740 successful um and and they really did restore it largely for a time to christianity um and

01:38:18.440 and putting down communism and stuff like that i think what franco also realized was democracy was

01:38:25.640 kind of the perfect host for leftism right and the reason it was like it was it was the republican

01:38:31.900 party in spain were the commies right and so they were the ones that were like well let's turn it

01:38:36.560 over the people they used extreme violence to incite uh you know political unrest and stuff

01:38:41.080 like that in the country it functionally took one strong leader to right the ship now again that's

01:38:47.580 not going to be the case in every country and i understand in america you know you're going to

01:38:51.460 have your challenges it might be that you have a sort of aristocratic elite who write the ship

01:38:59.140 maybe it's a combination of people um i know i've seen people you know positive maybe it's it's it's

01:39:05.420 a combination of an elon musk type guy with a trump type guy and a lot of other players behind

01:39:09.920 the scenes you got to work within the system you have um so i certainly think that's true

01:39:15.360 um everybody i've talked to on this issue right we talk about a christian prince we talk about

01:39:20.600 a lot of times when those christian princes in history came on the scene it was somewhat

01:39:24.760 unexpected um even before the civil war in spain nobody was like oh we're gonna we're gonna use

01:39:31.400 functionally a dictator to write this ship and then they go through a civil war franco emerges

01:39:37.500 and everybody's like yeah he's the guy um and that's just kind of what happened so i think

01:39:43.020 some of it's a bit of wait and see um and i don't know that i but i do agree with you joel

01:39:48.540 i think that if you think that liberal democracy is going to solve this problem

01:39:53.420 i think that you're i think that's incorrect and historically that has not been true

01:39:58.380 yeah i was gonna say um i think of gandalf where he says things are in motion now that cannot be

01:40:04.820 undone i don't think there are options as in like well the heritage project does this right we can

01:40:09.020 kind of steer well you notice i think of uh russia and the bolshevik revolution it fractured

01:40:13.920 fractured fractured the czar stepped down early in the 1910s and up to 1917 they had this provisional

01:40:20.140 government that was barely held together and it was lenin and the bolsheviks that eventually seized

01:40:24.320 power navigated through it took over commandeered the red army crushed opposition so same thing

01:40:29.880 happened in 1930s germany there's like six different political parties and then hitler

01:40:33.580 became chancellor what's going to happen i think is things are going to devolve devolve devolve

01:40:37.840 fracture fracture fracture and someone's going to come out of that and there's not going to be some

01:40:41.660 group able to kind of navigate and steer the ship uh we'll see who comes out of that mess one way or

01:40:46.800 another but i don't know that there's a way to take we were talking about earlier the angry young

01:40:51.920 men they've been disenfranchised they can't afford a home uh the women that are their options to 0.88

01:40:56.360 marry are ssri zombies um they have their jobs have been taken away these young men aren't going 1.00

01:41:02.860 away um something's going to happen with them right we want it to be christian that's the goal 0.64

01:41:08.260 of everything that we're doing right here christian men grounded in the christian faith

01:41:11.420 to actually do it right but something's going to happen one way or another we would hope to have an

01:41:15.940 influence in that we would hope that it would go in a godly manner uh but there might not be

01:41:19.700 controlling it history may have put in motion uh the things that will lead to whatever comes next

01:41:24.880 one way or another right the other thing i would say joel real quick i know your answer is going

01:41:30.240 to be amazing no no no no the one thing i would say to wes's point usually historically what this

01:41:37.340 always comes down to is who has the political will to act yeah this is something that christians do

01:41:42.380 not currently in mass have the stomach for which is you've got to be willing to exert political

01:41:47.840 power to achieve your ends and it can make people uncomfortable but look you read the history of

01:41:54.340 old testament israel it's you're going to find the exact same thing it's going to be the guy or

01:41:59.860 a group it could be a few guys but functionally as you know west said you've got to have people

01:42:06.340 with the political will to act and the stomach for it to push their agenda and as you said

01:42:13.120 hopefully a christian one that's good yeah i was just going to say both historically and then

01:42:20.120 in terms of biblical history you know so with israel in the old testament um most of the time

01:42:26.500 i've said this multiple times at this point but most of the time it's um it's top down revival

01:42:33.700 and not bottom up i'm not saying that god can't do that god does what he wills and um and if god

01:42:41.060 wants a bottom-up revival um it won't it won't be because we stood in this way um by god's grace

01:42:47.280 we're going to do everything we can as Christians and as ministers to preach the gospel, to do the

01:42:52.980 work of an evangelist, to disciple our children, to wash our wives in the word, all these different

01:42:57.020 things. So if God wants to change the nation by just converting 50 plus 1% of all the individuals

01:43:04.520 and giving them new hearts and discipling them and how to apply all of Christ to all of life in such

01:43:09.160 a way that it filters down into our elections and our politics, great. That's what I'm describing

01:43:13.540 when I say a bottom-up revival.

01:43:15.800 If God wants to do bottom-up revival, awesome.

01:43:19.300 Yeah.

01:43:19.620 That'd be a lot more painless.

01:43:22.600 It'd be the easier way, less riding in the streets and those kinds.

01:43:26.480 So that'd be great.

01:43:27.780 And if that doesn't happen, it won't be because we didn't want to

01:43:31.080 and that we weren't working for it.

01:43:33.320 Yeah.

01:43:33.660 Because, yeah, I'm doing podcasts, but I'm a local pastor.

01:43:38.960 I'm preaching the gospel.

01:43:39.860 We're seeing people come to faith in Jesus. Baptisms are happening all the time with real

01:43:45.980 converts, people coming to Christ. So yeah, that'd be great. But historically speaking and biblically

01:43:51.680 speaking, it's usually not bottom up. It's usually top down. What I mean by that is it's not that

01:43:57.700 preachers go out throughout the people of Israel, preach the gospel, individuals in Israel get

01:44:04.820 saved, and once over half of them get saved, 50% plus one, they then elect a better king who then

01:44:11.540 enacts better laws. That's not the way it goes. It's usually the people are degenerate, they hate

01:44:17.660 God, and they're faithless, right? Because we're talking about Israel, right? Very few times in 1.00

01:44:22.580 Israel's history are they faithful. Most of the time, they're faithless. But God in his mercy 0.99

01:44:28.880 causes a succession of three wicked kings in a row to finally end, and Josiah takes the throne.

01:44:37.360 And then Josiah says to the people, I was not duly elected, and you do not want righteousness 0.64

01:44:43.020 in the land because you're degenerate. But guess what? I don't care. You will have righteousness 0.79

01:44:48.360 whether you like it or not. If your hearts are unchanged, who cares? But outwardly,

01:44:54.440 you are going to behave like people who fear Yahweh. And all the high places built to idols

01:45:00.460 and the 90-foot statue to some demon Hindu god in Houston, Texas right now, it's all going to

01:45:06.040 be melted down. In some cases, Moses said, hey, we're going to burn down that idol and you're

01:45:10.120 going to drink it, right? That is how God did revival in the Old Testament. It was not bottom

01:45:15.820 up. It wasn't. It was top down. It's wicked people with wicked rulers, but then one righteous guy

01:45:21.800 in the providence of God. He arises to the top, he becomes king, and he begins to enact righteous

01:45:27.600 laws before the people have righteous hearts. But the righteous laws, in the pedagogical function

01:45:33.960 of the law, it functions as a tutor, begins to shape the hearts of the people, and that righteous

01:45:38.760 law and righteous culture outwardly actually provides the most conducive backdrop for true

01:45:45.600 gospel preaching to hit the ears of people who are actually aware that they're sinners in need

01:45:50.180 of the gospel and people actually get converted. This is what God does. He's done it again and

01:45:55.340 again and again. He did it all throughout the Old Testament. He's done it all throughout church

01:45:59.920 history. He didn't just stop with Israel for the last 2,000 years in multiple different nations.

01:46:03.280 He's done the same. And to think that he won't do it in America because God will stop his pattern,

01:46:08.560 his MO, because he respects our democracy and classical liberalism too much to make us

01:46:14.480 uncomfortable is, I think, arrogant. So, I'm not the extremist here. It sounds extreme because

01:46:20.800 you're sold out to the post-war consensus, but what I'm saying is I'm saying what God has always

01:46:24.820 done, statistically, in terms of likelihoods, it is far more likelihood that God would keep doing

01:46:30.960 the thing he always has than God doing a new thing that he never has or virtually never has.

01:46:36.920 And you might say, well, but that's not our founding. Listen, our founding as a constitutional,

01:46:41.440 number one it wasn't democracy it was a constitutional republic and we don't have it

01:46:44.920 anymore i'd love if we did but we don't i like constitutional republics wish we had one but we

01:46:50.440 don't but here's the deal we did not start in a vacuum out of thin air ex nihilo with this

01:46:56.260 christian constitutional republic you know where that came from it was the product descended from

01:47:00.940 generations and centuries from another place namely great britain with another government

01:47:05.900 namely monarchy 1200 years 1200 years of a christian monarchy is what produced

01:47:13.040 a christian constitutional republic you know what has never produced

01:47:17.420 a christian constitutional republic ever classical liberalism

01:47:21.700 that one hasn't classical liberalism is the fruit of christian

01:47:28.120 classical liberalism has only produced secularism yeah so all right let's let's do maybe

01:47:35.380 you one more question let's uh scroll down uh one thing that i gotta say we're coming up on the uh

01:47:39.580 the end of our early bird pricing so this is august 31st 11 59 p.m central time it's over

01:47:46.420 and the price will go up and it's going up a decent bit but until that point you've got about

01:47:51.500 a week and a half left 140 bucks for an adult 140 it's one of the lowest prices we've ever offered

01:47:57.020 for the most value we've ever offered we have like 15 speakers three days eight main sessions

01:48:02.280 four hour and a half long panels you need to sign up so uh come check out the conference and and

01:48:08.620 we're trying to get the best of both worlds here we've got steven wolf we've got um we've got

01:48:14.300 orn mcintyre who is great on like elite theory and you know just wrote the total state you've

01:48:18.420 got steven wolf you know who's going to come from the classical two kingdom perspective and the

01:48:22.220 protestant magisterial you know reform perspective the the case for christian nationalism but that's

01:48:27.060 not the only thing we're doing we also have jeff durbin who is a theonomist we've got david reese

01:48:30.680 who is a theonomist we've got uh who else we've got dusty deavers you know and so we've got

01:48:35.020 multiple different perspectives uh we've even got steve days yep steve days who is uh i believe he's

01:48:40.820 a baptist evangelical right southern baptist yep or something close to it uh but here's the common

01:48:46.100 denominator with all these guys um they're all fighters none of them are going to just roll over

01:48:51.340 and say oh well we lose down here all these guys are fighters and uh and some of the differences

01:48:56.540 between Aristotle versus Aquinas versus Van Til

01:49:01.280 and all these kinds of things,

01:49:02.420 or post-mill versus dispensational pre-mill,

01:49:05.120 which you guys know if you listen to the show.

01:49:07.400 I'm not a fan.

01:49:09.300 I do not like dispensationalism.

01:49:12.000 But Steve Dace is a brother in the Lord, and he fights.

01:49:14.780 He fights more than, honestly, some of our post-mill brothers.

01:49:19.120 They say, hashtag that post-mill, we win down here.

01:49:23.900 But they think we win 50,000 years from now.

01:49:26.540 and Steve Dace thinks we'll probably eventually lose,

01:49:30.140 but Steve Dace is saying,

01:49:31.100 yeah, and we'll lose over my dead body.

01:49:33.540 I'd rather have that guy.

01:49:34.560 I'd rather have the guy who's convinced we're going to lose,

01:49:36.940 like Theo did.

01:49:37.960 One last time, we'll ride out.

01:49:39.480 He thought we were going to lose.

01:49:40.380 We're going to ride to our deaths,

01:49:41.460 but he's going to fight at least.

01:49:42.880 I'd rather have that guy

01:49:43.740 than the guy who's just going to hide out

01:49:45.440 and say, hey, our great-great-great-great-grandchildren,

01:49:48.020 they'll win.

01:49:48.980 So anyways, $140.

01:49:50.680 It's a good price.

01:49:51.440 Go to rightresponseconference.com.

01:49:54.480 Rightresponseconference.com.

01:49:55.780 sign up for our conference today okay one more question what do we got is that the last one

01:50:02.440 nathan or are there more can you scroll last one okay here we go this is euclid he says every

01:50:06.920 democrat in federal office other than a handful of jews and muslims uh claims i'd say a little

01:50:12.500 bit more than a handful there but uh a handful of jews and muslims claims to be christian

01:50:16.720 could it be uh that the fight in america isn't against secularists but apostate christians

01:50:23.520 Eric, what do you think?

01:50:25.920 Ooh, that's a good question.

01:50:27.860 It is.

01:50:28.940 Maybe I take the middle road here.

01:50:31.520 I do a little, it's called we do a little Tim Keller.

01:50:33.960 We take the middle way.

01:50:36.240 But I think it's probably, that's hard to pinpoint.

01:50:39.300 I would say it's probably a lot of both.

01:50:41.640 There's certainly a lot of apostasy that has spread across the country.

01:50:46.960 And at the same point, it's like you've also brought so many people in from other countries 0.95

01:50:51.680 through illegal forced immigration, they're certainly pagan and were never Christians. 0.87

01:51:00.660 So I would actually, I'd say you'd have to look probably at the demographics in that. 0.84

01:51:06.240 You can look at certainly past generations and say apostate for sure.

01:51:09.700 I don't know about today. 1.00

01:51:12.840 Good point.

01:51:13.700 Wes, any thoughts?

01:51:15.620 I was thinking about the comment because I saw it and I was kind of considering.

01:51:18.720 I think one thing that's cool that's happening is as we talk, as Christians used to talk,

01:51:22.920 there's almost been a narrowing and a winnowing that people are like, 0.53

01:51:25.420 this is why I could never call myself a Christian.

01:51:27.420 This is why I don't like Christianity.

01:51:29.340 So hopefully as a rooted and grounded muscular Christianity continues to, I would hope, 0.61

01:51:34.520 dominate the public square, there will be people that self-select themselves out and say,

01:51:38.480 I could never touch that name.

01:51:39.620 I could never be associated with it.

01:51:41.740 I think that would be really helpful to get people where, because we're in a negative world.

01:51:45.620 it's not a positive thing to bear the name of christ to have your membership at your local

01:51:49.780 episcopalian church kind of as a badge when you go to run for public office so in negative world

01:51:54.900 where it doesn't carry that positive connotation and the christianity that people know and think

01:52:00.020 of is christianity like ours that gets labeled with all sorts of things hopefully um they'll

01:52:05.220 do that themselves and they'll say yeah i'm much much closer to a secularist i'm agnostic

01:52:10.260 and christianity is just not for me right that is a real dynamic like how do you deal with people

01:52:14.900 that say oh i'm a christian i love jesus and then go on and legislate the murder of children

01:52:19.620 right yeah it's tough because i think it's both positive and negative um it is a positive thing

01:52:24.900 and this is something that i think some of us who are like you know like we actually are real

01:52:28.340 christians uh we're not feminist we're not you know like we actually believe what the bible says

01:52:33.380 um i think we miss this but i think it matters and it's true um it is a good thing that we have

01:52:38.660 never had a president of the country um who didn't at least uh profess to be a christian

01:52:43.460 that's actually a positive thing so like and and this came up a lot in some of the you know

01:52:47.580 the old gc um you don't all the group chats that you know that with different pastors and guys you

01:52:52.440 know arguing back and forth when um during the primaries gop primaries uh with vivek ramaswami

01:52:58.960 and uh you know it was like you know some guys about half of them were saying like we like him

01:53:04.080 because he seems conservative and he's you know he can speak well he's got good rhetoric

01:53:08.340 he's really conservative he knows what time it is he's on it and then the other half and i was

01:53:13.660 part of the other half was saying yeah i like him and maybe you make him uh press secretary

01:53:19.580 you know or something like that you know like maybe there's a place for him um in in the you

01:53:24.980 know gop administration lord willing if if um if republicans win um but not president and uh the

01:53:32.440 reason why is because uh yeah he's conservative um but he's a hindu and once you open that box

01:53:39.600 here's the deal so it's like yeah but you know joe biden claims to be a christian and and he hates

01:53:44.160 god yes yes indeed 100 nancy pelosi claims to be a catholic she hates god uh-huh yes indeed um but

01:53:51.940 once you get once you break the mold for your conservative hindu who actually embodies in many

01:53:57.900 ways more christian virtues than the professing christian joe biden or nancy pelosi or you know 0.98

01:54:04.980 go down the list um vivek might be good for four years but then you inevitably will get the muslim 0.96

01:54:12.780 who um who is not conservative uh in any christian sense um but actually hates the triune god and 1.00

01:54:21.900 hates the west and hates christian values even more than the secularist and um it is a good thing

01:54:29.240 that that box has not been opened yet is my point the solution the solution is for the nation to

01:54:34.220 turn back to christ and that when somebody professes the name of christ it would mean

01:54:37.900 something the solution is not to say because so many profess christ's name and don't mean anything

01:54:42.280 by it then we shouldn't uh we should not um say that that the mere profession has any value

01:54:47.620 no the profession does have the solution is not to say because so many people say they they're

01:54:52.100 christians and they don't mean it uh saying you're a christian uh uh is uh not valuable

01:54:57.480 no it is valuable pretense is valuable like when yeah like when king charles you know and people

01:55:03.780 again the reformed baptists it's it's so embarrassing it's like it's really embarrassing

01:55:09.940 it is it is hard yeah you don't have you're a hard man over there you want to be a hard man

01:55:14.700 try being publicly known as a reformed baptist that is like that takes more courage and more

01:55:21.020 grit than almost anything it's it is embarrassing but like what during the um the um what what was

01:55:27.960 it uh the what do you call the coronation of uh king charles and you know you have the reformed

01:55:33.520 baptist coming out and saying like look at this you know and it's terrible and like they're

01:55:37.260 blaspheming and it's like yeah uh-huh yeah because they don't mean it they are blaspheming in their

01:55:41.540 hearts. But this is good. The pomp and circumstance matters. The pretense matters.

01:55:49.780 You don't want to lose this. Even if it's just on the books, if it's just pretend,

01:55:55.840 if it's all those things, it's not great. No, of course it's a problem. But the solution,

01:56:03.340 even what Jesus said to the Pharisees, Jesus doesn't say with the Pharisees, hey, you should

01:56:08.240 stop doing these outward things and do the inward things instead. No, he says, you should continue

01:56:13.660 the latter, but also the former. When he said, you tithe down to a tenth of your mill and dent

01:56:19.820 and spice, he doesn't say, you should stop doing all that outward pretense and adherence to the

01:56:25.680 law of God, and really, you should just love me privately in your heart. No, he says, keep doing

01:56:31.560 that, but do the thing that matters most. The heart does matter more, but we can't say that

01:56:36.780 the heart matters in such a way that the outward pretense doesn't matter at all. 0.62

01:56:40.580 I hope that England becomes truly a Christian nation. 1.00

01:56:43.980 In the meantime, though, I hope at least it continues to maintain a veneer, outward veneer 0.98

01:56:50.400 of Christianity, and I hope these United States do as well. 0.91

01:56:53.920 The fact that we have never had a non-Christian president, have we had a non-regenerate president?

01:57:00.660 Tom. 1.00

01:57:01.540 Tom, too many.

01:57:02.540 Right, Abraham Lincoln, right?

01:57:03.900 You can go way back. 0.81

01:57:04.600 So we've had plenty of those presidents who weren't Christians in the true, eternal sense. 0.65

01:57:10.120 But the fact that they all had to tip the hat to Christianity, that's power.

01:57:14.620 That's the very power that Eric's talking about, that evangelicals, we have to begin

01:57:18.960 to develop the stomach to be able to wield that power.

01:57:21.940 That's what cultural power is.

01:57:23.400 That's what religious power is, where a guy who hates the unborn children and wants to

01:57:28.300 murder them by the millions, he knows, yeah, but I at least still have to pay some credence

01:57:32.460 to the name of Jesus Christ. 0.52

01:57:34.600 that's a good thing that is actually a good thing and uh and we don't want to lose it we don't want

01:57:40.220 to lose that so uh let's do the former without neglecting the latter let's get the heart

01:57:43.960 without uh without losing the veneer uh we need both any final thoughts from you guys we'll we'll

01:57:49.620 go ahead and end the show no eric yeah yeah just one thing i i think there's also sort of a mistaken

01:57:55.920 notion among christians that like you have to have a super majority in order to act and it's not the

01:58:03.760 case obviously you can look back at the founding you can say look mayflower compact you know it's

01:58:08.400 a nation that really is covenantal to the lord but just to encourage christians i think that you

01:58:13.960 actually can do a lot even as in a negative world even if you're not the super majority

01:58:19.780 and there's some debate probably demographically if we are not but it's certainly shrinking but i

01:58:26.880 think what it is is look the homosexuals and the lgbt community they've been a for a long time a

01:58:33.380 very vocal minority and were able to force their will and so i think for christians um even if 0.98

01:58:40.600 you're small you sort of act like you're not like in the best possible sense you you have the

01:58:46.240 knowledge that god is backing you and you demand these things um even in a country like france

01:58:52.440 like the abomination that was the olympics right and everything that was going on there there were

01:58:57.300 still christians in that country that said absolutely not and they had to come out at least

01:59:01.120 and apologize right so at the very least use whatever power you have and do not give ground

01:59:08.720 on that do not give up what you do have yeah it's good it's great okay um that's it so let's go ahead

01:59:16.640 and uh sign off again go to right response conference.com if you want to get the early

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01:59:25.600 and the price is going to go up somewhat substantially.

01:59:29.020 So go to rightresponseconference.com.

01:59:31.040 Also go to patreon.com forward slash rightresponseministries.

01:59:34.480 If you want to sign up and become a Patreon member

01:59:36.440 so that you can get the articles every week,

01:59:38.040 and also you get early access and ad-free content

01:59:40.900 with our Friday special and all those kinds of things.

01:59:42.720 So there's a lot of perks,

01:59:43.940 but the one that's relevant for today

01:59:45.620 is that you will get this article

01:59:47.320 that reveals the psyop of racism.

01:59:52.140 racism and so if you want to debunk the the boogeyman of racism from the word of god

01:59:57.500 west wrote a great article and you can go to again patreon.com forward slash right response

02:00:02.300 ministries and become a member there eric thanks so much for coming on the show we really appreciate

02:00:06.880 it absolutely thank you guys all right thanks for tuning in guys and we will see you again

02:00:12.600 on friday with another episode of the friday special that we've got going with cultish right now

02:00:22.140 Thank you.

The NXR Podcast - August 21, 2024

THE LIVESTREAM - Does Christian Nationalism Have A Racism Problem？ - Live with Eric Conn

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