The NXR Podcast - THE LIVESTREAM - FRIDAY MEGASTREAM： Shillsdale College and Should Protestants Partner with Catholics？

00:00:00 Leave us a five-star review on your favorite podcast platform.

00:00:03 I get it.

00:00:04 It's annoying.

00:00:05 Everybody asks, but I'm going to tell you why.

00:00:07 When you give us a positive review, what that does is it triggers the algorithm so that

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00:00:16 You and I both know that this ministry is willing to talk about things that most ministries

00:00:20 aren't.

00:00:21 We need this content for the glory of God to reach more people's ears.

00:00:30 So we had Dr. Taylor Marshall join the show on Wednesday, just 48 hours ago.

00:00:36 We talked about Catholicism.

00:00:38 We talked about Protestantism.

00:00:39 We talked about immigration, all sorts of different things. 0.93

00:00:42 We even talked about in the beginning dispensationalism and the red heifers and all the Zionist crazy things that we see happening in our world today.

00:00:51 And in typical fashion, Reform Twitter absolutely lost their minds and cannot believe that I would

00:00:59 have a Roman Catholic join us on the show. Immediately, I began to be anathematized by

00:01:07 those who are Protestant and Reformed. And so I want to respond to that today. Let me give you 0.95

00:01:12 just a sample. There were tons of guys who came out of the woodwork. Here's one example. This is

00:01:18 from an account on Twitter called J.C. Ryle, okay? And he says this, who is the biggest enemy of the

00:01:25 gospel and has led countless millions into the lake of fire throughout the ages? Rome. Islam may

00:01:33 kill the body, but it cannot kill the soul. Rome kills souls. And do not fear those who kill the 1.00

00:01:41 body but cannot kill the soul, but rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

00:01:48 A quote from Holy Scripture from the book of Matthew. Here's my response, and I want everybody

00:01:54 to hear this loud and clear. This is my definitive position on the matter, and some of my Protestant

00:02:00 brothers who I love need to wake up. I wrote back this, Islam doesn't kill the soul? Are you serious?

00:02:08 and you're a Christian? Islam sends souls to hell by the millions every year. Wake the hell up. 1.00

00:02:15 It's not the 1600s anymore. The reformers, of whom I love and cherish, lived in a world where

00:02:23 Christendom ruled the day. We live in a day when Christendom is but a faint shadow of her former

00:02:29 glory, barely on life support. There were no Muslim hordes turning hundreds of cathedrals 1.00

00:02:37 into mosques when Christendom was ruling. There was no nation-state of Israel with Jews doing 1.00

00:02:43 everything in their power to start World War III when Christendom was reigning. There were no drag 1.00

00:02:50 queen story hours with tens of thousands of sodomites attempting to indoctrinate our children 0.57

00:02:56 and weaponize the state to take them away from you when Christendom was radiant. Catholicism 0.90

00:03:03 was the dominant threat to the original reformers because it was the only threat to the reformers. 0.98

00:03:10 But now we are crushed by Jewry, by Islam, secular humanism, gay race communism, crony capitalism that 0.99

00:03:19 makes it where your children will never own a home, and on and on and on. And to top it all off, 1.00

00:03:26 millions upon millions of our children have been slaughtered in their mother's wombs. And you pick 0.76

00:03:32 Catholics as your arch enemy? Did your parents not teach you shame? If Calvin and Luther were 0.97

00:03:39 here today and briefed on everything that has occurred in the last 500 years since they were

00:03:44 gone, Rome would be so far down their list of concerns that it wouldn't even make the top 50.

00:03:52 I will defend the Protestant faith. I will defend the doctrines of grace. I will defend the gospel

00:03:59 of Jesus Christ, but any Catholic who is willing to lock arms with me to stare down the coming 0.87

00:04:06 hordes of demons will have my aid. The Reformed today are like dogs chasing a car. We wouldn't 1.00

00:04:13 even know what to do with it if we caught it. Going further, I said that they are like people,

00:04:21 the Reformed, dressing up and reenacting the Civil War year after year, the true epitome of LARPing, 1.00

00:04:27 chasing a mouse. Meanwhile, their own children rest in the jaws of lions. The Reformed tradition

00:04:34 will always be my home, but today's Reformed ghetto is like a noose around my neck, ever 1.00

00:04:41 purity spiraling, perpetual losers. That's where we are. People need to wake up. They need to know 1.00

00:04:49 what time it is. I truly believe that one of the reasons why Reformed folk are constantly talking 1.00

00:04:55 about Rome is because it's easier to relive the days of fighting the dragon from the 1600s 0.77

00:05:02 than it is to fight the dragon who is alive and at large in your present context.

00:05:10 We're avoiding real fights. Does Rome get doctrine wrong? Serious doctrine wrong? Yes,

00:05:18 I believe they do. I'm a Protestant at the end of the day. So yes, I maintain serious theological

00:05:25 disagreements with Roman Catholicism. And yet at the same time, we are facing a Muslim invasion. 1.00

00:05:32 We are facing radical Zionism and an occupied government by Jews here in America. We're facing 0.94

00:05:42 Drag Queen Story Hour. We're facing the LGBT LMNOP mafia. We have several enemies at large 1.00

00:05:51 that we need to focus on today. There's a difference in partnering with someone in your

00:05:56 local church or partnering with someone in the realm of theology or evangelistic crusades,

00:06:03 as Billy Graham did later in life, and I have strong disagreements with that decision. It's

00:06:08 different partnering with someone in the realm of the church versus being co-belligerents in the

00:06:14 political and cultural realm. We have to wake up. We have to know what time it is, and we have to

00:06:21 be able to fight the enemies at hand and be willing to link arms with anyone we can as a

00:06:28 co-belligerent in the realm of politics and culture. And I see Catholics in many ways as

00:06:34 willing to join us in that fight. That's what we're going to be talking about in today's episode.

00:06:40 we're also going to be talking about some of the pitfalls that we see on both sides of the aisle. 0.87

00:06:45 I see a propensity for Protestants to embrace Zionism. I see a propensity for Catholics to 0.93

00:06:52 embrace globalism. We're going to flesh those ideas out and talk about some of the solutions. 0.89

00:06:58 And then, of course, we're also going to address, at least briefly in our first segment,

00:07:02 a story that is fresh from this week in regards to Shillsdale College that says,

00:07:10 you know what? You can't have a Christian nation. Sorry. But in their bylaw says,

00:07:16 we're a Christian college. So you can have a Christian family. You can have a Christian

00:07:20 college. You can have a Christian restaurant or a Christian Fortune 500 company. The one thing you

00:07:26 can't have is a Christian nation. And why? The same tired, mis-exegeted text again and again, 1.00

00:07:34 because Jesus said, my kingdom is not of this world. Hillsdale should know better. In fact,

00:07:40 I would argue they do know better, and that what they're presenting is intentionally subversive.

00:07:46 That's the show for today. It is a Mondo mega-livestream. Buckle up, get ready. This episode

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00:07:58 supporters and our generous donors. If you'd like to join the Patreon to get exclusive content,

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00:08:24 forward slash donate. That's the only thing that keeps us in the game is your generosity. And so

00:08:31 if you've been blessed by this ministry, you know that we're constantly under attack. You know that

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00:08:46 today. Again, that's rightresponseministries.com forward slash donate. Let's tune into the show.

00:09:01 Well, gentlemen, happy Friday. Happy Friday. We're back. Yep. Well, if you were looking for

00:09:05 a Christian college to send your kid to, right? So you have a son, he wants to go, he wants to

00:09:10 get a trade, whether it be engineering, whether it be the arts, he's inclined that way. Let's be

00:09:14 honest, you have a pretty small list of places that you'd feel comfortable. For one, I mean,

00:09:19 most state colleges, public universities, just the people who's going to be around. I think most

00:09:23 parents, Christian parents would say, I can't do that. That is going to be a party every single 0.96

00:09:28 weekend. And even if he's a good kid, we have to remember, Paul makes no apologies in 1 Corinthians

00:09:32 15. Bad company corrupts good morals. He literally prefaces, do not be deceived. So Paul is clear

00:09:38 about that. If you take that to heart, you're like, man, my options for education are local,

00:09:42 which if you live in North Dakota, Montana, the local options aren't great.

00:09:47 And as far as Christian colleges, honestly, Grove City College, Hillsdale,

00:09:51 you have some other more fundamentalist ones like Bob Jones.

00:09:54 You don't have a lot of great ones.

00:09:55 Even Liberty, it's like, really, you're going to go in here with your resume,

00:09:59 with Liberty University on there.

00:10:02 So a big one has been Hillsdale's College.

00:10:03 They're based out of Hillsdale, Michigan, been around since 1844.

00:10:07 And I think they kind of got the pass because they've been this legacy institution, right?

00:10:11 Well, it's Hillsdale College, and they may not be hip on everything going on right this moment.

00:10:16 But, I mean, come on.

00:10:16 They're one of the longest-standing Christian colleges out there.

00:10:20 Well, the president of Hillsdale sat down with Reverend Kevin DeYoung from the PCA, I believe.

00:10:26 That's his denomination.

00:10:27 Sat down with him to have a conversation.

00:10:28 There was a brief moment that they chose to highlight as a little bit of a trailer and a,

00:10:33 hey, coming out soon.

00:10:34 We've got this episode.

00:10:35 You're not going to want to miss it.

00:10:37 Here's a sneak peek.

00:10:37 And so let's listen to the part that they pulled out and said,

00:10:40 this is what you're going to want to hear from us.

00:10:42 This is the podcast of the president of a Christian college.

00:10:45 It's important to note, this was not somebody else clipping them out of context.

00:10:48 If you want to see clips taken out of context by fierce opposition

00:10:53 that want a ministry to be destroyed,

00:10:55 look for all the clips from Right Response Ministries from all our detractors.

00:10:58 This was them.

00:11:00 This was Shillsdale themselves saying, you know what I think is awesome

00:11:03 and really, really presents our position well.

00:11:07 Boom.

00:11:07 The episode's not out yet, but hang on.

00:11:10 We're going to whet your appetite.

00:11:11 Here it is. 0.72

00:11:12 Let's go ahead and play that clip.

00:11:13 George Washington's first inaugural, part of it written by James Madison.

00:11:18 Our republic is founded in the great fact and the whole course and economy of nature,

00:11:24 the indissoluble connection between virtue and happiness.

00:11:27 That's just a summary of Aristotle's Nicomachean ethics.

00:11:30 And you said something really important with the letter that Washington writes to the Jewish synagogue.

00:11:37 there is a difference between liberty and toleration, that those were not identical.

00:11:43 So religious toleration is we have an established church, we have a state religion,

00:11:48 we will tolerate those who are dissenters.

00:11:52 Liberty is a more expansive definition, and until you were reading it there,

00:11:57 again, I had forgotten that Washington makes that important connection.

00:12:01 Yeah. You know, Hillelville College is famous, which is a good thing, almost always.

00:12:11 But some mischievous journalist writes,

00:12:15 but they are admired by the Christian nation. And I wrote a letter to the editor,

00:12:21 and they printed it. I just said, somebody admiring somebody else doesn't necessarily

00:12:27 say anything about somebody else. That's right. But if they do admire,

00:12:31 hillsdale college they will learn from it that a christian nation is not possible because jesus

00:12:39 kingdom is not of this world i'm inspired can i enroll my young children now in hillsdale for

00:12:47 when they grow up you mean they can go there and they can learn there's no such thing as a christian 0.95

00:12:51 nation yeah uh based chat are we back uh ridiculous we are not back they are not that 0.89

00:12:57 we're back we're back they're not uh that and we've done this exegesis before but i think it's

00:13:03 helpful to go over it again this is from john and uh and it's pontius pilot he's grilling jesus

00:13:08 this is from john and i'll take it from here i actually do want to say something but go ahead

00:13:13 go ahead i was going to say he's grilling him because you remember the accusations brought

00:13:16 against jesus are he's basically fomenting a revolt against rome so the the religious rulers

00:13:21 of the day they put jesus up they're like this guy is getting ready to form a revolution and

00:13:26 form his own kingdom. He's been talking about the kingdom of heaven. I mean, this guy's a

00:13:29 religious zealot. And Pontius Pilate's like, is this true? Like, give it to me straight. Do you

00:13:36 have a kingdom? And Jesus responds to him, my kingdom is not of this world. Joel, you want to

00:13:41 take it from there? Yep. Kingdom is not of this world. Here's the deal. People will look at that

00:13:45 and they'll say, well, at the end of the day, Jesus had no interest in civil politics, worldly

00:13:50 affairs, temporal, you know, civil reigning and ruling. That is not the case. One of the three

00:13:57 temptations when Satan, right, when the Spirit, it's right after Jesus' baptism, the Spirit actually

00:14:03 leads Jesus into the wilderness where he fasts from food and water for 40 days. And after he's

00:14:10 in the human nature at his most vulnerable and weakest point, Satan then seizes an opportune

00:14:16 time, comes to the Christ and tempts him in three different ways. And one of the temptations is that

00:14:21 Satan takes Jesus up to a hillside and then shows him all the kingdoms of the world. And I think

00:14:28 that this is probably supernatural, that he's actually giving a visible view, but also even

00:14:36 spiritually like a vision and showing him, here's this kingdom way over, something going on in

00:14:42 Egypt, and here's something going on here in Jerusalem, and here's Rome, and here's all the

00:14:46 powers of the world, right? Here's all the kingdoms. And Jesus refuses the offer. Now, here's the deal.

00:14:53 The offer that Satan makes, the contingency, is that I will give you all the kingdoms of the world

00:14:59 if you bow down and worship me. And Jesus, again, he does this with all three temptations. He quotes

00:15:05 the scripture. It is written, you shall not worship anyone but God alone. And so he refuses the

00:15:11 temptation. Now, this is where the pietist comes in and says, you see, Jesus is an interest in 0.87

00:15:17 politics. Jesus doesn't really care about the temporal, you know, human civil kingdoms of the 0.50

00:15:23 world. Now, Jesus is not interested in the kingdoms of the world being given to him by the devil at

00:15:29 the cost of idolatry. So when Jesus says, no, no, no, I'm not going to take this offer, essentially

00:15:35 what Jesus is saying is, I don't need you, Satan, to give me the kingdoms of the world because I'm

00:15:40 going to take them. I'm going to take them. You're not going to give them to me by me being subservient

00:15:45 and idolatrous and blasphemous and worshiping you. No, I'm going to take them and I'm going

00:15:50 to do it victoriously by my death and resurrection and glorious, vicarious ascension to the right

00:15:56 hand of God, the Father Almighty. Jesus is absolutely interested in the kingdoms of the

00:16:02 world, but he's going to gain ruling and reigning the right way. Now, to flesh it out even a little

00:16:08 bit more. God appointed Adam in the garden as federal head over all creation, not just Eve and

00:16:16 their posterity, not just humankind, but all of earthly creation. He gave him dominion over the

00:16:22 birds of the air and the fish of the sea and the beast of the field. Adam is viceroy. Adam is 0.88

00:16:28 steward of all the earthly cosmos, all of creation. When Adam chose willfully to sin and to join his

00:16:36 wife in eating of the forbidden fruit in that moment he forfeited his dominion to the prince

00:16:42 of the air so satan begins to be known by this title that he is um he is prince of the world

00:16:50 he is prince of the air all of a sudden he gains because adam by his sin he forfeited his god-given

00:16:57 dominion over the earthly cosmos and he forfeits that when he forfeits it it's not just left lying

00:17:03 on the ground, but it's taken up by Satan. Satan now has real authority over the worldly kingdom.

00:17:10 So when Satan goes to Jesus, this is not a fake offer. When Satan goes to Christ in the temptation

00:17:15 of the wilderness, and he says, I'll give you the kingdoms, it's because the kingdoms of the world

00:17:20 at that moment, from the moment of Adam's sin all the way until Christ's victory, they really did

00:17:25 belong to Satan. He actually had authority of them over these earthly kingdoms. This is why in

00:17:30 the book of Daniel. When the angel finally gets to Daniel to give to him a revelation, he says,

00:17:35 I'm sorry that I've been held up, that I'm late in coming because I had to fight with the prince

00:17:40 of Persia, right? The Bible talks about princes and principalities. During the time of, you know,

00:17:47 post-lapsarian, after sin entered the world with Adam, and until the second Adam, the better Adam,

00:17:52 Jesus Christ, regains this dominion and takes it back. In between these two time periods,

00:17:58 Satan is the ruler of this age. He's the ruler of the prince of the air of the worldly kingdoms

00:18:05 and domains during that time. And there were a principality. A lot of people don't understand

00:18:10 this. It's like a state. It's a region. It's like provinces in Canada. A principality is the

00:18:18 geographic region. The prince was not the human king or ruler that was set up over it, like the

00:18:24 king of Babylon or something like that. No, the prince is actually the spiritual entity, a demon,

00:18:31 a fallen angel that was subservient to one of the chief fallen angels, the chief fallen angel,

00:18:37 namely Satan. And Satan was ruling the world, and he did so geographically by appointing certain

00:18:43 regions to his minions. So there actually was a king over Persia, a human king, but then a prince

00:18:51 over that principality, that region, a demonic prince whispering in his ear. Think of the

00:18:59 Rohans, right? And where all, you know, Saruman, this wicked wizard, there's still a physical 1.00

00:19:06 human king on the throne in Rohan, but he is being controlled from a distance from a spiritual power.

00:19:13 So that's what's going on. So when Satan comes to Jesus, he makes this offer. It's a valid offer.

00:19:18 It's a real offer. Satan is saying, look, God gave earthly dominion to Adam. Adam, by his sin,

00:19:24 forfeited that earthly dominion to me. I now rule the kingdoms of this earth, but I'll give them

00:19:29 back to you. And all it costs, all it costs is idolatry. And Jesus says, no, not because he's

00:19:37 not interested in politics, not because he's not interested in these temporal affairs or the

00:19:42 the kingdoms of the world. Jesus is saying, no, I'm not going to be given the kingdoms by idolatry.

00:19:48 I'm going to take the kingdoms by my life, death, and resurrection. And that's precisely what Jesus

00:19:55 does. So when Jesus says, my kingdom, get into that, is not of this world. He's talking about

00:20:00 the nature of the kingdom, not its location. So he's not saying, my kingdom is a kingdom merely

00:20:06 confined to the 17th dimension. My kingdom is simply somewhere up in the clouds where there's

00:20:13 little baby angels playing harps. He's not saying I have an ethereal and merely strictly spiritual

00:20:19 kingdom that never transfers or has any domain in the earthly physical world. When Jesus says

00:20:27 my kingdom is not of this world, he doesn't say my kingdom is not in this world. I'll say that

00:20:32 again, you have to understand, Jesus is not saying my kingdom is not in this world. He's saying my

00:20:37 kingdom is not of this world. Meaning what? That the source of authority and power of Christ's

00:20:43 kingdom, which is in heaven and in this world on earth, is a heavenly source. It's a divine source.

00:20:50 So the source of his power, the nature of his kingdom is not worldly, right? The nature of his

00:20:56 kingdom, the manner of his kingdom, is not of a source that is of worldly power. But to say that

00:21:02 his kingdom in terms of location does not breach into the physical cosmos is a crazy misunderstanding

00:21:09 of Scripture. The last thing that Jesus says before giving the Great Commission, before he is

00:21:14 ascending and then hidden behind the clouds, is he prefaces his statement of going and making

00:21:20 disciples of the nations of of earthly nations making them disciples not just making disciples

00:21:26 out of the nations of individual people but that the nations themselves would flock to mount zion

00:21:31 they would become subservient to king jesus that the nations would be christianized that they would

00:21:36 be baptized into the triune name of the father the son and the holy spirit and jesus that's his last

00:21:42 command commission given to the apostles and to preface it he says this all authority all rule

00:21:50 all reign all kingly authority on earth and in heaven has been given to me so christ is king

00:21:59 he's king of jews he's king of muslims he's king of atheists he's king of hindus um it's not whether

00:22:06 but which it's not whether or not christ is king he is your king nobody makes jesus king god the

00:22:14 father made jesus king when he rose jesus on the third day bodily from the grave and he then

00:22:21 exalted him to the place of honor with a name above all other names christ the anointed one

00:22:28 lord kurios god made his son jesus king and he has authority both in heaven and on earth he is not

00:22:37 merely relegated in his kingship to a spiritual 17th dimension ethereal kingship it is a heavenly

00:22:44 kingship and an earthly kingship and whether you're muslim or jewish or or atheist or whatever

00:22:50 it is jesus is your king you don't make him king jesus is your king you can love him or hate him

00:22:56 you can bless him or curse him but he is your king in every knee it's not if it's merely when

00:23:01 every knee will bow and every tongue will confess some knees will bow by grace some knees will break

00:23:09 right even matthew henry the puritan said this some knees will bend others will break when he

00:23:15 who rules the kingdoms of the earth with an iron scepter breaks their kneecaps on the final day

00:23:21 he is king he is king and shillsdale college doesn't know what they're talking about

00:23:26 yeah it's uh i i mean one thing you have to just recognize too i think and we'll we'll pull up a

00:23:33 little excerpt here from the about page of hillsdale.edu but one thing you i mean it

00:23:38 immediately recognized joel after you articulate it that way is okay that's a reformed covenantal

00:23:43 view of scripture hillsdale wasn't founded on that um in many ways i'm sure they're just

00:23:48 completely unfamiliar that that sort of thing isn't taught but that aside i do find it sort of

00:23:53 a little jarring that one of the final things that Christ says, you know, you typically hang

00:23:59 on to those final few comments from somebody. Let me wrap it all up for you here. All authority

00:24:03 on heaven and earth. Not some, not most in heaven, you know, some a little in earth, on earth,

00:24:10 but all of it is his. And even on that scripture alone, the fact that, you know, an Arminian can't 0.99

00:24:17 grasp this sort of thing is a little jarring. But let's pull up. So I want to read this because 0.99

00:24:22 there's a couple insights from this little, this piece that you find on the about page right at

00:24:28 the top at hillsdale.edu. They say, talking a little bit about their history, what they're

00:24:32 established for, what their charter's about. It says, though established by free will Baptists,

00:24:37 Hillsdale has been officially non-denominational since its inception. It was the first American

00:24:42 college to prohibit in its charter any discrimination based on race, religion, or sex,

00:24:47 and became an early force for the abolition of slavery. It was also the second college in the

00:24:51 nation to grant four-year liberal arts degrees to women. So it's talking a little bit here about

00:24:55 its history in the late 19th century and sort of what they, and just, you know, a little context

00:25:00 here. So the free will Baptist, that's a sort of a sub-denomination under the general Baptist. So

00:25:05 these are going to be the non-Calvinistic Baptists. And actually, as far as Christian 0.84

00:25:10 nations go, they were actually pretty politically active. They were some of the biggest proponents

00:25:16 of abolition, as this states here. And of course, they had all sorts of things to say about what

00:25:22 our nation should be and stood specifically on scripture to make that case. So clearly in their

00:25:28 one takeaway, I think here is clearly in their founding, they believed that they could enact

00:25:32 a Christian nation. In other words, people were coming here, they were going to educate them

00:25:36 and indoctrinate them into going out into the world for the faith. So that's profound. I was

00:25:43 going to say 56 years later so 1844 they're founded 1900 it depends what census you take

00:25:49 but it's between about 85 to 97 percent of americans professed christianity so what in the

00:25:55 world do you call a nation that it's like 90 plus of this nation now i'm not saying every single one

00:26:02 of those individuals were regenerate but 90 plus what religion are you there's not like well i'm

00:26:06 kind of agnostic we'll see how it works out i'm an atheist 90 are saying christian i mean you have

00:26:12 Times Square. You have the Empire State Building lit up with the Christian cross on New Year's.

00:26:16 You have blasphemy laws, and it's blasphemy against any God, right? No, the Lord Jesus Christ. 0.87

00:26:22 So in our laws, the Christian faith. In our culture, the Christian faith. In people's

00:26:26 confession, the Christian faith. My goodness, what do you call that kind of nation?

00:26:30 Well, it's just a nation. And what's its character? What are some of the things it likes?

00:26:35 It has, well, we did have Memorial Day at the time. We have apple pie. We have a declaration.

00:26:40 like, and what would be a description of its religion?

00:26:44 Oh, a Christian religion.

00:26:45 And Hillsdale existed during this time. 0.87

00:26:46 It existed for 50 years. 0.88

00:26:47 So it's not just scripturally ignorant, 0.99

00:26:50 but it's also profoundly ignorant 0.93

00:26:52 of what God has done in the past

00:26:54 here in the United States most recently

00:26:55 and most relevant to Hillsdale,

00:26:57 but also what he did all across the West,

00:26:59 all through the Middle Ages

00:27:00 that were overwhelmingly Christian.

00:27:03 And when you describe them,

00:27:04 like same thing with a Christian family. 1.00

00:27:05 If you have 15 children, heaven forbid, 0.92

00:27:07 one of them apostatizes,

00:27:08 you would still call yourself a Christian family.

00:27:11 Our family, the majority of it, goes to church.

00:27:14 Our family, the majority of it, confesses the Christian faith.

00:27:17 Our family, its home is adorned with verses.

00:27:20 It's praise before meals.

00:27:22 It is a Christian family, recognizing, hey, there's a child that did apostatize.

00:27:28 But its whole nature, the people that make it up, it's Christian. 0.96

00:27:31 So it's a profound ignorance from, again, a guy who should know better. 1.00

00:27:35 right kevin de young and the president of a christian college right yeah at minimum to know

00:27:42 about your own college's history and sort of what at the end of the day there is a telos for

00:27:47 education it's not simply just to know it's it's to do something with it and to um go out into the

00:27:52 world and of course that that is the good nations have a telos like that possibly yeah yeah well i

00:27:58 mean certainly liberal colleges understand that right right they they understand what it looks

00:28:02 like to tell people to go and be something in the world. So it's a little discouraging. But

00:28:08 the other thing I want to note on top of just the sort of complete lapse in their understanding of

00:28:14 their own sort of charter and purpose as a college is the fact that it's clearly, I mean,

00:28:21 obviously pre-post-war consensus, but clearly there's something going on here. As you can see,

00:28:25 this is a liberal articulation of the faith and putting Baptists to shame were hardest hit over

00:28:32 here. But yeah, I mean, the articulation about putting women in college and discrimination and

00:28:37 so on and so forth, I mean, this is stuff that's, you know, obviously it's coded now in the post

00:28:43 Civil Rights Act language. But the appeal there, I think, is what's more telling, is that they're

00:28:48 appealing to that sort of language to talk about and more or less to brag about what they are and

00:28:54 what they are, you know, are proponents of. So clearly to see the chasm here, right? You see

00:29:00 the chasm, I think, theologically. You see the chasm politically in terms of what Hillsdale is,

00:29:05 what their aim is. Now, all of that said, all of that said, I want to be charitable where I can

00:29:11 be charitable and say Hillsdale, as it relates to being a liberal arts college, reviving the

00:29:16 classics, trying to bring back a knowledge of Plato and Aristotle and church history and those

00:29:24 sorts of things. I mean, they're doing on the scoreboard, they're doing better than the average

00:29:28 college right so so we have to give them credit there um in saying that uh you know these things

00:29:34 are important we should be teaching these things and that podcast set let's be honest pretty good

00:29:40 phenomenal great aesthetics the marketing they do a really good job right so but i mean all that said

00:29:45 you still have to recognize that it's not far enough like you have to at the when you interpret

00:29:50 uh sort of movements right or you interpret uh sort of the the growth of an institution you do

00:29:57 have to recognize uh you know what where there are differences right where it's just like hey

00:30:03 we just don't have the same vision ultimately but i i think wes you you hit the nail on the head with

00:30:08 with the point about um yeah they're just they're simply uh not you know not on our team so to speak

00:30:16 in the sense of like wanting a christian nation and they've admitted as much now right i think

00:30:21 that's really good let's go ahead and go to our first commercial break and then we're going to

00:30:24 come back and we're going to talk about uh catholics and protestants where we can unite

00:30:29 uh where we can't spoil alert uh theology right in the realm of the church a catholic cannot be

00:30:36 an elder in my church he cannot be a deacon in my church and uh he's going to have to renounce

00:30:42 some particular doctrines to even be a member in my church and that's not me being rude or

00:30:48 disrespectful or anything like that that that would be vice versa absolutely uh dr taylor marshall

00:30:53 He came on the show this last Wednesday.

00:30:55 If he was on the show again today, he'd say, yeah, Joel, it's great that you are pretending to be a pastor.

00:31:02 God bless you.

00:31:04 But no, you could not be a priest in the Catholic Church.

00:31:07 You would not be a deacon in the Catholic Church.

00:31:09 You would not be a member in the Catholic Church.

00:31:11 You would have to embrace certain doctrines.

00:31:13 And so in the church, yeah, in the church, there are substantial differences.

00:31:18 and for us to debate those differences with charity and respect, but also conviction and

00:31:24 courage absolutely has to be done. That said, to say this guy's a Catholic and so we can't even

00:31:30 talk to him, we can't even have him on a podcast, we can't partner with this Catholic against Islam, 0.69

00:31:38 against Judaism, against secular humanism, against abortion, against LGBT, LMNOP, mafia, 1.00

00:31:45 you know transgenderism this that and the other that's uh that is foolish absolutely foolish and 0.99

00:31:51 so yes uh we are willing to be co-belligerents i think there are different categories right there 0.99

00:31:56 are different categories of um you know we are brothers in the same church in the same church

00:32:03 and then there are uh we're friends right brothers friends and then there's co-belligerents um to say

00:32:10 that you can't even be co-belligerents with a Catholic as a Protestant in the realm of politics 0.99

00:32:16 and the realm of culture is absolutely foolish. I do not believe that that would be the position 0.97

00:32:23 of Calvin or Luther. Calvin and Luther were fighting the fiercest threat of their day

00:32:30 in a world that was saturated with Christendom that was Catholic. That was what was going on. 1.00

00:32:38 uh calvin and luther uh geneva was not over geneva did not have 90 foot statues uh to uh to uh

00:32:48 hindu gods the hindu gods right right geneva was not overrun with muslims geneva was i mean

00:32:55 geneva did not have drag queen story out and and if it did if it did calvin would be writing

00:33:02 volumes against it. Well, Calvin seemed to be more concerned about Catholicism than

00:33:07 all the gay lesbian stuff. The gay lesbian stuff was not happening. When it happened, 1.00

00:33:17 it happened as a fringe, as a misnomer. That was not prevalent. Geneva was not run by gay race

00:33:28 communism. And to think that it was is foolish. And if it was, then you would have seen a lot of 1.00

00:33:34 different writing from John Calvin. He would have said, yeah, the Pope this and the Pope that,

00:33:39 and I stand by this and I stand by that. But also let's talk about these fags. That would 1.00

00:33:46 have been part of the discourse as well. All right. So let's go to our first commercial break

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00:37:31 shipping on orders above $99 for the U.S. only. All right, we're back. We're going to talk about

00:37:38 Catholics and Protestants, where we can partner, where we cannot partner. But we're also going to

00:37:43 talk about what we see as two potential pitfalls for both, respectively. Protestants, Zionism. 0.97

00:37:50 We're seeing that loud and proud. Oh my goodness, there are multiple times that I feel a little bit 0.92

00:37:55 embarrassed. Feel a little bit embarrassed. Protestants are just hook line and sinker

00:38:01 shilling for Israel like it's nobody's business. There is a propensity among Protestants. I don't 0.62

00:38:07 think it's unique to Protestantism, but there is a propensity among Protestants, the people, 0.83

00:38:14 to be Zionist shills. So Zionism is to Protestantism what I believe globalism has a potential 0.80

00:38:21 to be to Catholicism. And so I do want to talk about that. We've got a lot of new Catholics 0.54

00:38:25 who've been joining the show. We are grateful that you're here. We want to be able to partner

00:38:30 on politics, partner on culture, but I want to at least submit something. I'm going to do it

00:38:34 charitably and respectfully, but I want to submit something to you for your consideration. At least

00:38:39 hear me out, right? Let me cook for a moment. Hear me out. Here's a clip from Wednesday. If you

00:38:44 missed the full length conversation, it was fantastic conversation. Dr. Taylor Marshall

00:38:49 was very respectful um i mean he did uh send out a tweet roasting john calvin like two hours before

00:38:55 the show i messaged him privately i was like really like right now you had to do that right

00:39:00 now you're about to come on a reform podcast and you're like you know what i should do two hours

00:39:04 before uh i should hate on john calvin so uh the timing wasn't great with that but um he took it

00:39:10 in stride you know we put we poked at him a little bit he poked at us uh but it was a charitable

00:39:14 conversation, some disagreement, some agreement. So I encourage, I humbly submit to you the full

00:39:21 conversation. So if you go back to Wednesday, check it out. That's us and Dr. Taylor Marshall.

00:39:28 I think you'll enjoy that. But I want, for those of you who have not had an opportunity to see the

00:39:33 full conversation, there was one clip towards the end of the conversation that I think is telling.

00:39:38 And I think it gets to some of the crux of the issue of some of the political and cultural

00:39:43 pitfalls with Protestantism, but also Catholicism. So I'm going to show this clip. I'm going to read

00:39:49 a little bit from the Pope, our new recently appointed Pope, and then we're going to flesh 0.88

00:39:56 out what we see as a potential pitfall that you need to be aware of as a Catholic. So here's a 0.82

00:40:02 clip from Dr. Taylor Marshall and myself. Our founders, they told us who they were doing it for,

00:40:09 for us and our posterity. They weren't doing it for India. And I hope that India is blessed by God 1.00

00:40:14 and repents of worshiping false gods, becomes Christian, and thrives. I don't hate India. I

00:40:21 don't hate brown people, black people, red and yellow, black and white. They are precious in

00:40:26 his sight. Yes and amen. But I don't want to lose America. I don't want to lose my people.

00:40:32 and and i've sometimes worry that uh that catholics like a guy like like you taylor that

00:40:39 you i know you love our country and i've seen you the reason i wanted to have you on the show

00:40:44 is i disagree with you on catholicism but i've watched your your political takes your cultural

00:40:49 takes and i'm like well goodness gracious like because i'm looking at the protestants who agree

00:40:54 with me on soteriology and some of these things but they oh my goodness like if if people listen

00:41:00 to their politics we're done you know so so i so i'm like looking at you and i'm like all right i

00:41:04 i'm gonna have to reach across the aisle here and and play nice and be and be respectful and i want

00:41:09 to be respectful regardless but like you're saying good things but i do get scared that even a guy

00:41:15 like you um who who seems to love america um who who looks like a heritage american um that that

00:41:26 your catholicism that tail might wag the dog on the in terms of national allegiance versus

00:41:33 religious allegiance and that you might you know be like hey you know what um open the floodgates

00:41:40 and boom we got our catholic america but we we lost our our ethnic america in the process

00:41:48 and I think that matters. I think it matters too. I'm a Catholic and I'm against immigration.

00:41:58 So even if you said, man, all these Catholics coming over the border, they go to mass every 0.89

00:42:02 Sunday, et cetera, and you have illegal unbridled immigration, there is a net negative. There's a

00:42:10 problem there. But at the same time, when you're looking at priorities and political priorities,

00:42:17 i talked to my catholic friends in europe and they're like man you should see paris right now 1.00

00:42:22 this is getting crazy you know and you go to go in rome and you see you know more and more gypsies 1.00

00:42:28 and you see more and more indians and they're saying man we're just being overtaken i at least 0.99

00:42:32 you know over here in texas i say well at least ours are catholic you know what i mean like

00:42:38 i know you're saying like well i could tell but i'm like man we're blessed you know our illegal 0.97

00:42:43 aliens you know they're committing crime and there's all these gangs and all that but a lot 0.98

00:42:47 of them at least are going to mass on sunday it's not like muslims you know bowing down in the 0.96

00:42:52 streets of downtown paris for their five you know times of prayer per day so yeah i am a little bit 0.72

00:42:58 more softened on that as a texan i'm against you know illegal immigration but i also understand

00:43:04 there is the idea of a, a cultural, of a familial identity of American. Obviously I'm not a wasp,

00:43:15 but you know, part of the, the, the cool thing about Catholic history and tradition is

00:43:22 the Pope never said, I want Germans to be French and French to be German. And I want French people

00:43:28 to move over here and German people to move over here. And I want the Belgians to start, you know, 1.00

00:43:33 going over the channel and living in england and i want belgian people to start eating english food

00:43:38 and speaking english there was always the idea that each one of these nations is christian they're

00:43:46 baptized they go to church on sunday they have their own archbishops their own bishoprics which

00:43:51 by the way are geographical this is a very important thing in catholicism our structure

00:43:56 our hierarchy is built on the diocese and the parish so it's very geographical there was never

00:44:03 the idea that it all had to be mixed up into one generic soup and that's actually really beautiful

00:44:10 and something that we should try to attain now that we have airplanes and boats and all that

00:44:15 it's going to be a lot more difficult moving forward and as a catholic and i think you would

00:44:21 agree with this as well. My faith trumps my citizenship. Like I would always go with faith

00:44:28 over citizenship. Right. Um, so yeah. So when I look at the immigrants, I'm like, at least our

00:44:36 immigrants come from at least three to 500 years of a Christian culture. They believe in the 10

00:44:45 commandments. They may not act on it. They may be criminals, but at least they're coming from

00:44:49 something that is spanish christianity which is way better than a somalian you know 0.93

00:44:55 all right let's deal with this so yeah uh spanish christianity spanish catholicism to be more

00:45:03 particular better than somalian uh yeah i agree uh but it's still not american um i want a christian

00:45:10 america absolutely but i want it to still be america i want it to actually be america if we're

00:45:16 not careful this becomes the same thing that we saw with vivek and elon right where uh well

00:45:21 america first just means america as the sports team and it doesn't matter how many players we

00:45:27 have to trade out if we have to import on h1b visas you know a hundred million you know indians 0.94

00:45:33 to come in and you know say oh i like apple pie uh you know uh so long as they can code 0.90

00:45:40 better than you know some of the white guys uh so that we can be america first meaning america

00:45:45 winning the race for artificial intelligence and beating other countries on the GDP must go up,

00:45:52 America beating China, then that's America first. No, it's not. America first is Americans first.

00:45:59 Americans first. And that's not Spanish Catholics. And so when he said, for instance, 1.00

00:46:05 and I want to be charitable because I really appreciated him on this conversation. He did a

00:46:09 great job and we'd love to have him as a guest again. And there's a lot of political and cultural

00:46:13 things that we can align on um and and we can be co-belliterants with but this is one that that i

00:46:19 do have some sharp disagreement um you notice that uh dr marshall said um you know he said

00:46:26 obviously i'm not a wasp emphasis on wasp the p right he's saying i'm not protestant but he's

00:46:35 just recognizing wasp white anglo-saxon protestant that's what that stands for white anglo-saxon

00:46:41 Protestant. And this is the bedrock of the founding of this nation. It is. And nobody can 0.77

00:46:46 contest that. And if that's completely done away with, then you still have a country, but it's not

00:46:53 America. Not in any discernible historical heritage sort of way. You have lost America's

00:47:01 heritage. If we have a Catholic America, that's a different America, right? And if we have a 0.99

00:47:08 spanish america right so if it's you know if it's uh not instead of wasp you replace the p with c

00:47:15 right and it's catholic now well it that's a different america if you replace the anglo-saxon

00:47:21 with you know spanish even other european latin or whatever so we're not even saying like india

00:47:28 comes in well then it's you know it's india protestant yes even other european that said

00:47:33 that said it is a sliding scale yep so you replace the anglo-saxons with uh more germans

00:47:40 and italians um you've lost something right you've changed something you replace them with

00:47:45 haitians and you've really lost something right that's just a bigger change that is a much more

00:47:51 stark change we have to be able to say that of course that is um a radically different america 0.57

00:47:57 And what you hear Taylor Marshall saying is, well, you know, I'm at least, you know, pleasantly surprised and happy to see that, you know, a lot of the immigrants coming in are, you know, Spanish Catholics instead of Somalians.

00:48:16 and then he even said for a moment there he said um you know and and a lot of them are you know 0.82

00:48:22 criminals they're committing crimes but at least they're in mass on sunday um you know mass shootings

00:48:30 on monday but in mass on your family got decapitated by a terrible driver but but he was in

00:48:36 mass that dude took the eucharist you know god bless him how does my family back oh and here's

00:48:42 my point um i don't think that this is an aberration um i i don't think that this is um just

00:48:49 a one-off you know isolated i actually think that this is consistently catholic right so let's let's

00:48:56 look at a couple things from the pope let's start off start off with one of the it's been called one

00:49:01 of the most popular most well-known papal bulls and that would be unum sanctum we've talked about

00:49:05 it on the show we've gone through the actual wording of it but one of the things that the

00:49:09 bull says. You guys have to get this because a big part of Catholicism, if it's Christian

00:49:13 nationalism on the Protestant side of things, nationalism and Christian, then the Catholic

00:49:17 side would be integralism. And so you would have actually the integration of church and state.

00:49:21 And in this papal bull from 1302, Boniface VIII, it explicitly states that the church is actually

00:49:27 over the state as far as temporal matters. That the final judge of whether something is good or

00:49:33 something is bad, not just on doctrine, it actually is the church. The church as a spiritual institution

00:49:38 has an authority over the temporal so if you think maybe the classical two kingdoms in that realm

00:49:44 it's not a one over the other but they're parallel distinguish they run they run alongside each other

00:49:49 both both the sacred and the common running alongside one another um distinct but not a

00:49:55 hierarchy exactly and there's domains where like the natural realm the king has authority for

00:50:00 example to say a tsunami is coming church is canceled right he doesn't give out the sacraments

00:50:05 because those have been given to the ministers under shepherds under christ which is why the head

00:50:10 of the redemptive we've got to get this right it the technicalities matter the problem with covid

00:50:16 was not that the civil magistrate can't cancel church for a natural disaster or an emergency

00:50:22 the problem with covid is that he kept canceling church not one week but months and months again

00:50:29 and again and again and there was no disaster right that was the problem if it was the spanish

00:50:34 flu where people could die in as little as four hours. I think you could say, except for ministers

00:50:39 going to the beds of the sick, church will be canceled for a couple of weeks. Now, years on end

00:50:45 in the country where like there's three people that never interact with the town. No, but

00:50:49 practically in the common kingdom for the temporal things, for the natural ends, for the well-being,

00:50:54 for ordering people towards the spiritual kingdom and heavenly life, there's a unique authority.

00:50:59 then the same thing with the spiritual kingdom it has real authority ministers have the keys to the

00:51:04 kingdom they have the the power to give out and administer the sacraments right so we as protestants

00:51:11 distinguish if you're two kingdom then if you're theonomic there's other ways these interact yeah

00:51:15 you can distinguish like you know the kyperian spheres you know if you're more theonomic you

00:51:19 know or you can distinguish by the two kingdoms if you're more of a tomist but but what wesley's

00:51:25 Catholic doctrine. One is over the other. And here's the thing, because that's one of the

00:51:29 false charges that a lot of the Protestant Christian nationalists keep receiving again

00:51:34 and again from Protestants, from Reformed ministers who should know better, and they

00:51:38 say, look, this is just integralism. The integration of church and state with the church running the

00:51:45 state. They're going to do the same thing that Catholics have historically done, where 0.62

00:51:50 where the pope is over the king, where all of a sudden it's not a theocracy, it's an ecclesiocracy,

00:51:58 where all of a sudden it's a church-run state. We want a theocracy. Christ is king, and he's not

00:52:04 just king of the church, but he's actually king of the state as well. Ephesians, I believe it's

00:52:08 chapter 1, verse 20 or verse 21, that says, and God has appointed him, that being Christ,

00:52:15 as head over all things to the church.

00:52:19 What that means is not just Christ is head of the church.

00:52:21 Of course he's head of the church.

00:52:23 And Christ, we would argue, is exclusively head of the church in a unique way,

00:52:27 in the sense that Christ exclusively gave his life up for the church.

00:52:32 But Christ is not head of the church in terms of his authority only.

00:52:38 The Bible says, Ephesians chapter 1,

00:52:40 that god has appointed him as head of all things to the benefit of the church so christ is uniquely

00:52:47 head of the church right he actually dies for the church washes her by his blood he doesn't do that

00:52:53 for any other human institution he doesn't do that for the state for the common kingdom he doesn't

00:52:58 even do it for the family he does that for the church and even if you're covenantal right so i'm

00:53:04 not even i'm not picking on on guys who you know with pedo-baptism i i understand the arguments it

00:53:09 makes sense to me. But the point is, even for those guys, they still have a category for

00:53:15 apostasy, for trampling the blood of the covenant underfoot. So they still acknowledge, and for 0.87

00:53:21 those who are Calvinist, whether you're Presbyterian or Anglican, Presbyterian, but those

00:53:28 guys, some Anglicans, those guys would still argue. They would say, yeah, a covenant child who has

00:53:34 been baptized as an infant can commit apostasy. And what that will ultimately prove is not that

00:53:40 Jesus died for him and that he walked away, but that Jesus actually never died for him at all.

00:53:45 He trampled the blood of the covenant underfoot because he despised his birthright, because it

00:53:50 really, in the decretal sense, never belonged to him. He was not among the decretal elect. He was 0.97

00:53:55 in the new covenant, but not elect. And so they would acknowledge that Christ did not die for

00:54:02 the family for the entire family but actually only died for those members of the family who

00:54:07 are not only members of the the new covenant but uh members of the decretal elect and so whether

00:54:13 it's the visible versus the invisible exactly so whether it's the family or whether it's the state

00:54:18 or whether it's the market or whether it's any of these other human realms christ is uniquely

00:54:23 not exclusively he's head of all things in terms of his authority as headship but he is you uh

00:54:30 uniquely head of the church in the sense that the church is the entity for which the invisible

00:54:37 universal Catholic, lowercase c, Catholic church, for which he died, for which he purifies, for

00:54:43 which he sanctifies, for which he saves. And so Christ is uniquely head of the church, but he is

00:54:49 not exclusively head of the church. He is rather exhaustively appointed as head of all things. So

00:54:54 that being said, that means Christ is head of the state, which means above the minister,

00:55:00 there is Christ in the realm of the church. Above the Christian prince, there is Christ

00:55:06 above the magistrate. And so you do want a theocracy, God above the state. You do not want 0.92

00:55:12 an ecclesiocracy necessarily, that being the church above the state. And Protestantism allows 0.94

00:55:19 for a a theocracy politically speaking in terms of the state uh where where this the state is

00:55:25 separate from the church but it's not separate from christ and so the state is distinctly christian

00:55:31 where you adopt the nicene creed or the apostles creed as a preamble to the constitution where you

00:55:36 have the ten commandments plastered everywhere and you legislate them as law um you can have that

00:55:42 um within protestantism a theocracy without it being ecclesiocracy and without it being

00:55:48 integralism within catholicism though it is integralism and and so because of that there

00:55:54 is a blurring of the kingdoms there's a blurring of the natural kingdom from the heavenly one

00:55:59 from the kingdom of grace and those things which are sacred and the kingdom of those things which

00:56:05 are common which means that they're not two kingdoms running alongside each other parallel

00:56:10 with different spheres and and different jurisdictions but instead it is a hierarchy

00:56:17 and the kingdom of grace and therefore the clergy actually at the end of the day stands above the

00:56:23 magistrate which means that the pope can then give papal orders and now we're going to get back on

00:56:28 track that actually insist upon losing national political distinctions and that's one of my fears

00:56:36 when it comes to catholicism i have my grievances theologically but now speaking politically one of

00:56:42 my concerns for the political vision of consistent Catholics. So a lot of you would disagree with

00:56:48 this. Praise God, you're inconsistent Catholics. And many such cases, many such cases. And I thank 1.00

00:56:55 God and praise God for you. There are many Catholics that listen to this show that say,

00:56:59 no, I want America to be Catholic, but I also want America to be America. I don't want it to 0.71

00:57:04 be a bunch of Spanish Catholics and every person of European descent is replaced. That would be 1.00

00:57:11 catholic but it wouldn't be america and i don't want that as a catholic you're awesome praise

00:57:16 god i appreciate you um but what i want you to see though is that catholics i think many catholics

00:57:24 want america in its nationality to remain distinct catholicism though not talking about the people

00:57:31 but now the positions i think that catholicism has has a consistent implication to globalism

00:57:38 in a way that Protestantism, so Protestants, the people, they're a bunch of Zionists.

00:57:45 But Protestantism actually does not lend towards Zionism. That's an inconsistency on the part of

00:57:52 Protestants. Whereas Catholics, many of them are not globalists. They love America. They want

00:57:58 America to remain in its national distinction. But Catholicism, right, not the people, but the

00:58:05 position in consistency, it does allow for globalism in a way that Protestantism does not.

00:58:11 Let's look at the papal bull, and then let's look at some quotes from our recently appointed Pope.

00:58:15 Right. And so the point is exactly that, putting the church over the natural,

00:58:19 it can result in some strange readings, especially, and I'll say this before we get to it,

00:58:23 we're in a different world than we were in 1302, for example, when that papal bull came out.

00:58:29 It's one thing, I think of a video game, you haven't unlocked certain areas of the map.

00:58:33 lest we forget most of the east and most certainly africa as far as below the saharan desert

00:58:39 we hadn't unlocked that area yet right so there was a thousand years of christendom

00:58:43 where questions of refugees and migrants and those immigrating sometimes these are literally

00:58:48 people speaking the same language they're crossing 25 miles they're for sure from the

00:58:52 same cultural milieu but now in 2025 in the year of our lord with boats and planes we have three

00:58:59 billion people in the third world and all of them would love to come here. That's right. That did

00:59:04 not exist. Right. And so it's perfectly applicable to say hey there was a time when this actually

00:59:09 it wouldn't have lended towards destruction. We're talking about intra-Europe type of immigration 0.96

00:59:14 back and forth passing through. Hey you remember a Catholic church you simply transferred and even

00:59:19 then it did have some disruptions. There was times during the Reformation where men would flee

00:59:22 and they'd take up all the jobs from the other Christian men in the city that they came to. 0.90

00:59:26 so even then it had its problems but the problems today with again three billion people who would do

00:59:33 anything and say anything i've heard of americans that live down there children will bang down their

00:59:38 doors begging them to learn english and i don't doubt that they would be good students they would

00:59:42 learn english that's their way out so you have three billion people that says i will say anything

00:59:46 i will learn anything i will do anything i will work any job just get me to the first world and

00:59:52 In that framework, let's go ahead and read the message from the newly appointed Pope,

00:59:56 newly chosen Pope. This is from just in July. It's a message relating to the 111th day of,

01:00:03 I'm going to change this for the title, 111th World Day of Migrants and Refugees, which comes in

01:00:08 October. The Pope, so Pope Leo XIV, he said this,

01:00:13 The communities that welcome migrants and refugees could be a living witness of a society where the

01:00:19 dignity of all as children of God is recognized and in which all are brothers and sisters part of 1.00

01:00:25 the same family don't love it don't love it and Tony we said a lot yeah well I would I would just

01:00:30 say and I think particularly in that context of this tweet from Pope Leo here about uh the ways

01:00:35 that the and one thing I appreciate about Stephen Wolf one of many things is the way that he

01:00:41 articulates the common kingdom here in America and the expression um as a republic and the way that

01:00:47 you know papal even it doesn't even need to be a decree it could simply just be a tweet like that

01:00:53 that influences because you have to remember in a republic it's it's the people the people have

01:00:57 a moral imperative to direct the government and so you know early on in the in our republic you

01:01:04 know founders into the 19th century you know political leaders would talk about this this

01:01:10 concept of dual allegiance and simply in in in the way of like where are we being where are we

01:01:16 influenced. So you talk, you can think of George Washington's farewell address. He talks about

01:01:20 importing foreign, um, foreign grievances or importing sort of foreign wars or whatever the

01:01:27 case would be. And that sort of being a challenge. Well, similarly, um, as a Catholic in the early

01:01:31 Republic, if you're, if you're listening, you have an ear to the Pope as you should, if you're a good

01:01:35 Catholic, you are importing messages that aren't germane to the Republic. And so that's the concern

01:01:42 you have here, not just sort of theologically and conceptually, but also simply just thinking

01:01:48 about America, the way that our government functions is when, if I'm a Catholic and I

01:01:53 see the Pope say something like that, that holds weight. And there can be a concern about how much

01:01:59 weight that holds, how that swings my vote, how I express myself politically in my own nation.

01:02:06 That's a great point. Catholicism, you have to remember, you know, the adjective that comes

01:02:10 before Roman Catholicism. Catholicism has a geographic global locale. It has an HQ. It has

01:02:19 a headquarters, a central location, whereas Protestantism does not. You can have 0.99

01:02:27 an Anglican Great Britain, and you could have conceivably a Presbyterian, for instance,

01:02:37 united states um you can have you you can have um distinct nations that are protestant in a way

01:02:47 that you're not able with catholicism there is a blurring of the lines it's um well we we all have

01:02:54 a global head that we report to um and that global head and there's also the the integralism piece

01:03:02 that global head at times will either blatantly or seemingly blur sacred and common kingdoms

01:03:11 together to where now upon the civil magistrates right you have the pope speaking from rome and

01:03:19 the civil magistrate now in timbuktu feels an obligation to let in x many millions of you know

01:03:28 people from the third world so long as they're catholic catholic uh aid societies have been huge

01:03:33 for resettling immigrants in the united states yes practically speaking yep so protestants like

01:03:38 i said design is protestants uh have been huge uh for supporting israel and you know great big

01:03:47 l right there let's let's be honest um for uh not all we're not among them but for a lot of

01:03:53 protestants uh there has not been a war that they have not liked in the middle east for the last

01:04:00 few decades right it's like whoa like we've got you know our greatest ally needs our help

01:04:06 you know right let's let's send send a check send a son send a daughter you know to go and 0.85

01:04:12 bleed out for israel so to be fair we killed our own too a lot world war one world war two even the 0.93

01:04:16 civil war we protestants for the most part lord knows catholics had their bloody heirs too but 0.97

01:04:21 we for sure said, well, we'll go to the marching field and slaughter, literally millions of our 0.90

01:04:25 own. Yes. And recently it seems like we are more than eager to do that on behalf of Israel. And so

01:04:33 we're trying to point out errors on both sides. Protestantism, I think that you got to be careful

01:04:42 about Zionism. Now, I don't think that's unique. I don't think it consistently follows from the 0.95

01:04:47 position of protestantism but protestants i think often are zionist whereas catholics

01:04:52 there are not as you know that that's not as as um as as innate to catholicism this constant

01:05:01 shilling for israel so so catholics i think by and large do not struggle with that problem to

01:05:06 the same degree that protestants do on uh on the zionist issue um but catholicism i think that

01:05:14 there are many Catholics resisting globalism. But Catholicism as a position, I think it leaves

01:05:24 the left flank vulnerable to globalism. Let's continue reading from this message 0.98

01:05:31 from, again, Pope Leo XIV for the 111th World Day of Migrants and Refugees. This is from the

01:05:37 actual statement itself, a longer message, and he says this, in a special way, Catholic migrants

01:05:41 and refugees, so they're Catholic, they're migrants, they're refugees, they're Catholic,

01:05:46 can become missionaries of hope in the countries that welcome them, forging new paths of faith

01:05:51 where the message of Jesus Christ has not yet arrived, or initiating inner religious dialogue

01:05:55 based on everyday life and the search for common values. With their spiritual enthusiasm and

01:06:00 vitality, they can help revitalize ecclesial communities that have become rigid or weighed

01:06:05 down, where spiritual desertification is advancing at an alarming rate. Their presence then should be

01:06:10 recognized and appreciated as a true divine blessing an opportunity to open oneself to the

01:06:17 grace of god who gives new energy and hope to his church does that sound familiar do you think am i

01:06:23 reading the world economic forum or no like i mean like how how applicable is that um how tempting

01:06:31 would it be if you're a catholic priest in america today to read that and think for such a time as

01:06:38 this right i mean look at it it's like places uh with their spiritual enthusiasm vitality they can

01:06:44 help revitalize ecclesial communities that have become rigid and weighed down where spiritual

01:06:49 desertion is advancing at an alarming rate right wouldn't we all protestant and catholic alike say

01:06:58 that about america about these united states specifically europe too it's even worse specific 1.00

01:07:02 yeah exactly well europe you've got all these empty churches you know and and uh the muslims 0.98

01:07:08 are coming in so so stop the muslims coming in nope uh why don't we counterbalance it by you 1.00

01:07:14 know we took in five million muslims so let's take in 15 million you know catholics from south 0.84

01:07:20 america and and you know even their presence the pope says should be recognized and appreciated as

01:07:26 a true divine blessing right so you better be enthusiastic and again we know guys they're young

01:07:31 men they're catholic they want to save america and europeans to distinguish and saying catholicism

01:07:36 versus catholics but they would look at this and we know and go oh yeah don't like that yeah so we

01:07:41 recognize we have a lot of young catholics that we're friends with um that they would be like 0.87

01:07:47 hate it hate it you know and god bless them god bless them right uh but but it's worth noting 0.90

01:07:55 that on paper catholicism right so we're not talking about the young you know based white

01:08:02 catholic you know who's uh you know following nick fuentes or something like that and he's

01:08:07 five days a week right we're not talking about uh that we're not talking about catholics we're

01:08:12 talking about catholicism and catholicism uh does leave the door quite literally the door of a

01:08:19 country wide open yep right well this country's uh struggling with spiritual desertion this our

01:08:26 country you know a lot less people are coming to church so um let's let's open it up and let's get

01:08:32 home don't be racist let them in don't be racist let them in honduras and mexico and cuba and this

01:08:40 and that and and what i'm saying is it haiti like 56 catholic yes well that's the thing is like so

01:08:46 when when taylor marshall said well you know uh spanish catholics is is uh different than

01:08:52 somalians okay but but you've just said that catholicism your religion trumps ethnicity

01:08:58 well religion in in eternal matters religion trumps ethnicity for us too of course right

01:09:04 of course our brothers in christ spiritual brothers in christ is uh on on the top of that

01:09:09 hierarchy. But for temporal and worldly affairs, just because someone is a Christian, even if

01:09:17 they're a Protestant Christian, doesn't mean they get to live in America. But what Taylor Marshall

01:09:22 seemed to be saying, and being as charitable as possible, is he seemed to be saying Somalians,

01:09:28 no, but Spanish Catholics, yes. I can't help but hear that and think that what he's saying is

01:09:33 the reason why no to Somalians is not just because they're Somalians, but more particularly

01:09:39 because they're muslim i think that was the implication there the muslim somalians no but

01:09:45 the catholic spanish yes okay well what about the catholic haitians over half the country of haiti

01:09:53 is catholic so you know and and they're the kinds of catholics that will go to mass 0.99

01:09:58 yeah and then they will also eat your dog they will go to mass and then eat a massive meal 0.86

01:10:05 of your pets of your pets yeah yeah what about that yeah and i think that i like to think about

01:10:10 in terms of sort of proclivities or downfalls right so we we recognize that in protestantism

01:10:15 zionism is a real challenge and for every one of joel there's three four or five designists

01:10:20 but i mean dr taylor marshall i think he also said something to the effect of i'm one of the

01:10:25 biggest critics of catholicism so even in that implicitly recognizing like i am yeah maybe i

01:10:31 don't agree with this entire message from pope leo like maybe i would tweak language here and there

01:10:35 but we look at the scorecard and it's like well for every one of you how many good you know pope

01:10:41 respecting catholics are there that take this message and to your point joel um act on it vote

01:10:46 on it so on and so forth so yeah so don't let your priest get away with it you're catholic you're

01:10:50 there you're committed you want to save the west hold the line don't let your priest get away with

01:10:54 it say hang on hang on this would destroy our nation please respectfully don't buy into it

01:11:00 Right. And then simply the challenge there, I think, becomes just the mechanism in Catholicism.

01:11:05 It's a lot more challenging, I think, just in it being hierarchical.

01:11:10 You're not going to necessarily win people on arguments or theological, biblical arguments

01:11:14 because you have the Pope saying something contra to the point you're making.

01:11:18 And so that's where I think in Protestantism, we have it a little bit easier 0.58

01:11:21 with respect to actually moving out of this trap of Zionism versus what Catholicism is facing.

01:11:29 so that's just also important to note i i do think that um protestants can consistently

01:11:34 protestants are zionist okay so like we want to be fair and point fingers at ourselves and and

01:11:41 you know at our friends across the aisle um protestants are zionist but this would be my

01:11:47 position in a nutshell um protestants are zionist but protestantism historic protestantism does not

01:11:54 necessitate zionism catholics many catholics are not globalist but catholicism if consistently

01:12:02 followed as it currently stands i think does lead towards the implication of globalism pope francis

01:12:09 for sure was a big push in immigration and all that so we're talking about like the last two

01:12:13 popes right 15 years right two popes i just a decade and a half running a decade and a half

01:12:19 fronting and so in a nutshell like my i would say that um i think protestants are being

01:12:24 inconsistently zionist i think some catholics are being consistently globalist and that's my

01:12:31 concern and i wanted to make it clear and also we just wanted to be able to respond to the interview

01:12:37 because it was a banger it was awesome so many good things that's just one part of it uh the

01:12:42 vast majority um we agreed uh you agreed on uh soteriology no we didn't talk about it we didn't

01:12:48 talk about soteriology we know we disagree we know we disagree um and if dr taylor marshall wants to

01:12:55 to take me out to a nice steak uh dinner and wine and dine me uh to talk about soteriology i am happy

01:13:01 to uh finish the steak first all right because i want to make sure i get the bill let him get the

01:13:07 bill and then start going over you know all my protestant talking points um i got to get the

01:13:14 steak dinner first and then hit him with some Luther quotes. But yeah, but that wasn't the

01:13:20 point of the interview. We didn't have him on to talk about soteriology. So yes, we had a lot of

01:13:24 agreement, political agreement. But this was one of the areas where outside of theology,

01:13:29 in the realm of politics, we disagreed. And we did some charitable pushback. And I just thought

01:13:36 it would be great, Monday morning quarterback, to go ahead and review the tape. All right,

01:13:42 so here we go few housekeeping items number one um we've got uh 1617 people streaming live right

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01:15:51 at right response m m as in ministries at right response m last thing we're going to go to our

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01:16:28 in. If we have time, we'll get to it. But if it's not with a super chat, then you need to somehow

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01:16:42 that we can answer them when we come back for the third and final segment after this last commercial

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01:19:16 next step toward financial discipleship and multi-generational impact. All right, here we

01:19:28 go here we go okay super chat starting with bjj wins again bjj wins again he's been to our conference

01:19:35 he's come out and visited the church great brother awesome guy uh he gave us ten dollars we appreciate

01:19:40 that i'd like to see 20 next time we appreciate that bjj wins again you've been generous you've

01:19:46 been kind he prays for us great great guy uh he said just met a local methodist pastor he used to

01:19:52 be full rainbow woke uh read some john mccarthur and his delusions shattered and he became full

01:20:00 zionist woke oh no i'm just kidding no he said i read some john mccarthur his woke you know lgbt

01:20:06 mafia delusions were shattered praise god john mccarthur was stalwart on that issue his entire

01:20:11 life did a wonderful job uh he's now in regular communication to go a full crusader cn in our

01:20:19 town we are winning praise god man that's great that's an awesome story that's awesome and john

01:20:23 mccarthur is in glory praise god for his ministry we disagree on the leaky dispensationalism and

01:20:29 the affinity for jews but john mccarthur did a lot of good we're grateful okay uh next one

01:20:35 antonio you want to take it uh inevitable kerfuffle sent ten dollars thanks for that

01:20:39 and says dr taylor marshall posting that john calvin was only 26 when he published the summa

01:20:44 but i can't think or i can sorry think of another 26 year old making some historic waves maybe it's

01:20:50 time to start listening to young people again i have no idea that compliment i have no idea what

01:20:55 yeah he must be talking about you because you're 26 yeah uh the only other guy i could think of

01:21:00 is 27 right it's true that's true so i don't know john calvin generational run at 26 someone else

01:21:07 a generational run yeah somebody yeah there's a couple guys yeah of course antonio is definitely

01:21:12 on a generational run are you kidding me but i mean institute there are some episodes where

01:21:16 antonio gets like legitimately six or seven minutes of talk time six whole minutes whole minutes

01:21:21 but i mean john calvin the institutes at 26 like the picking point on him is not that he was 26

01:21:28 it's like my goodness and to be fair antonio you've said this he was revising them throughout

01:21:32 his life so yes the final version we have the institutes is not what he originally had but

01:21:36 i was not writing that at 26 no yeah john calvin was smarter at 26 than i'll be

01:21:42 you know if i lived to be you know 86 um so it here's the thing like we have a bible verse for

01:21:47 this like i'm not trying to be cliche but it's the word of god it matters do not let anyone despise

01:21:53 you for your youth right but rather set an example through this through that and calvin did that and

01:21:59 he's not the only one so it's not to say calvinists are the only ones who had young guys who

01:22:03 were you know high caliber and uh exemplary um no there have been young guys throughout all of

01:22:10 history um but but this idea of like well why don't you listen to me because i'm older um i'm

01:22:16 willing to hear any older man uh but hearing and then just by default agreeing are two different

01:22:24 things i will hear you and i will do my best to hear you respectfully but i'm allowed to disagree

01:22:30 um it i wish that we could say you know what every older man um has more wisdom and uh and

01:22:39 more giftedness than every younger man but that has never been the case and currently is also not

01:22:46 the case yeah so good comment we appreciate that all right uh antonio take the next one yeah just

01:22:52 justin jmz sent 50 all right that's great says keep up the good fight guys enjoy the show god

01:22:59 bless thank you for that very kind that's awesome all right wow this is a big one mondo super chat

01:23:06 five hundred dollars from kodiak uh kodiak joe three three six five nathan's yelling something

01:23:15 from the back what's up top guy he wants to be a top guy i think he's ready uh he said uh thank

01:23:22 you so much kodiak we really really really appreciate this uh he said when the church

01:23:26 tried to feminize christ i strayed into false paths but none were my god right response ministry's

01:23:35 bold preaching of king jesus stirred me to rise as a husband and father breaking my family's curse

01:23:42 of divorce at christ is king conference the conference that we just recently held i shook

01:23:47 hands with brothers and speakers from the ogden boys to oren mcintyre but he said nate that is

01:23:56 the uh is the true king behind the camera he misspelled joel i think he meant to say joel is

01:24:03 the true king in front of the camera so that's a typo we'll forgive it it's a 500 super chat after

01:24:09 all you know um no nate uh couldn't do it without nate we're super grateful for him um that was

01:24:15 great thank you we appreciate it cody west you want to take the next one all right efficient tip

01:24:20 ten dollar super chat i will be visiting your church in two weeks hope to meet you all there

01:24:25 christ is king awesome we will be there i will unfortunately be out of town helping my parents

01:24:29 they're actually moving to the area but no you'll be you'll be there you'll be there you'll miss your

01:24:33 flight west right it's you can go after it's the lord's day and wesley will be there uh or he will

01:24:38 be excommunicated immediately yeah immediately um okay next one antonio yeah um most mostly

01:24:45 peaceful merch merchandise yep sent four dollars and 99 cents and says christians have brought an

01:24:52 effeminate fire extinguisher to a flood for decades thank you for thinking in categories

01:24:57 and addressing real problems so true king um thank you we appreciate that yeah that's i that's a i

01:25:04 think an apt illustration uh we're not saying that fires don't exist and that fires don't require

01:25:11 fire extinguishers um but it just seems silly uh right now in the world that we currently live in

01:25:18 uh where you know at any moment we could go into world war three

01:25:23 uh at any moment um we could be uh there is a tipping point and and honestly we could have

01:25:31 already hit it it does not feel like we're getting mass deportations and we've taken millions tens

01:25:36 of millions of people they just uh posted stats uh that said uh 55 million with uh work visas

01:25:43 foreigners visa holders and another 50 million illegal aliens guys we're talking about a hundred

01:25:49 million a hundred million you're talking about a third of the country why do we have a housing

01:25:54 shortage for the record i'm interested in that question no seriously when you think about housing

01:25:57 it's like oh well like we got to get control of costs and like okay look crony capitalism is a

01:26:02 problem we've talked about that we'll talk about it more in the future but there's also a little

01:26:06 thing called supply and demand it's pretty basic like what do you do if a third of the houses in

01:26:12 your country are all of a sudden available housing goes down right like part of what has made houses 0.73

01:26:20 impossible to afford is that you have 30 indians on h1b visas two of them on h1b visas and then 0.99

01:26:27 28 of of other indians that come chain migration yep yep chain migration we need grandma we need 1.00

01:26:34 our great great aunt we need this person we need that person um and that you know and they'll 0.93

01:26:39 co-sign for each other to live in the same house so americans their boomer parents won't give them

01:26:44 money they won't co-sign for them so they're on their own they can't move into this home but it'll

01:26:48 be a 600 000 home and three families with three tech workers with inflated salaries they'll all

01:26:54 go co-sign onto it so they then live in a home that could have been for an american and then

01:26:58 half your neighborhood maybe they're all nice people half your neighborhood is people that 0.78

01:27:02 don't even speak english well how did this happen h1b worker visas them co-signing onto it

01:27:07 and all of a sudden boom now here's the solution here we are skyscrapers in topeka kansas

01:27:13 yeah so yeah taking a fire extinguisher to a flood is a bad idea um we reserve our disagreements

01:27:23 with rome in terms of theology in terms of soteriology and those disagreements are significant

01:27:30 and profound and we have talked about it before we will talk about it again however at the same

01:27:36 time to not realize that right now we are being flooded flooded flooding is a good term right

01:27:41 fire extinguisher when you're in the middle of a flood uh we have a flood of immigration and we 0.97

01:27:47 have a flood of islam and we have um a stranglehold of uh zionist control in these united states and 0.99

01:27:56 to not look at those things and recognize we have the tech right uh that wants to usher in um 0.98

01:28:04 essentially uh says well i'm not the antichrist but you're you're building the framework for

01:28:10 you know like that wants to usher in transhumanism uh we we have some massive massive cultural and

01:28:18 political problems and uh and we can't afford to shoot guys who are willing to say hey i'll fight

01:28:25 with you and the catholic thing i tell my catholic friends this there's going to come a point where

01:28:29 it probably comes to blows right now we're working together in these cultural things but i recognize

01:28:33 this is not an in perpetuity thing right so there will come a point we can be honest and say hey

01:28:37 there's going to have to come a point where we decide what america is and it it might be a little

01:28:42 rough yep that's we're not in in naively thinking just for all time in perpetuity we have this

01:28:48 strange arrangement where it's just like we have these cultural issues and this cultural thing and

01:28:52 we'll fight in that and we'll keep all of our discussion to it there comes a point to discuss

01:28:56 and revisit trent again that time is not right this moment yep i've said it several times i said

01:29:01 it over all the baptism debates for the last you know two years three years four years and i said

01:29:08 again and again you know reaching across the aisle with you know with guys who were protestant but

01:29:13 you know between credo and pedo and saying look um these kinds of debates matter uh but they are

01:29:19 the luxury of of when christendom is reigning um when when christendom has has taken root

01:29:26 and it's reigning supreme. I really do believe that the intramural battles are battles that are

01:29:34 a luxury of being on the winning team. But when you're surrounded by millions of Muslims, 1.00

01:29:42 when Hollywood and your universities and your government and your banks are overrun by Zionist 0.98

01:29:51 jews uh when uh drag queens are in your schools with your like then no no i'm sorry like i want 0.97

01:30:00 to argue uh as much as the next guy i really do and uh and but it's like that's a reward that's 0.99

01:30:09 you and you got to earn it right you got to fight back first and then you know the dwarves and elves

01:30:14 and men can battle. But right now we're talking about orcs, right? The dwarves and the men and

01:30:21 the elves can all hash it out. Will this be the kingdom of men? Will it be the kingdom of the 0.98

01:30:25 elves? Will it be the kingdom of the dwarves? Right? Okay. Okay. But first you've got a wicked

01:30:31 wizard sending in just mountains of orcs who do not discriminate. They will kill elves and humans 1.00

01:30:40 and dwarves alike and so right the idea that uh politically not theologically not in our churches 0.87

01:30:47 not in our pulpits but politically and culturally can we link arms men elves dwarves to fight orcs

01:30:55 i think we can i think we must i think we must this is from uh nick bonner 9261 he gave us a

01:31:03 20 super chat nick we appreciate it he's a regular he's been super faithful we're very grateful for

01:31:08 you. Thank you so much. He says, my dispy uncle, right? Dispensationalist uncle recently told me

01:31:14 that he believes there are virtually no Catholic Christians. He considers Catholicism a cult.

01:31:21 The evangelical church could use a little more ecumenicalism for optimal cultural impact.

01:31:31 Let's talk about this for just a moment because I do think that this is important

01:31:37 um in terms of you know uh no no catholic christians um this is the the angle the direction

01:31:45 that i would like to tackle this um and i'll and i'll start by posing a question to antonio and

01:31:50 wes i'll give it to you wes because we've talked about it i know what your answer will be and then

01:31:54 i'll hear what antonio says and then i'll follow up uh bring up the rear um what is your ultimate

01:32:01 hope and prayer for Rome, for the Roman Catholic Church? If Christ tarries for 500 years,

01:32:09 5,000 years, what are you hoping to see happens to Rome? Go on the record and correct a number

01:32:16 of mistakes. I think even of a, I believe it was a papal bull decrying that anyone that wears a

01:32:22 wool scapular made of 100% wool adorning the Virgin Mary will be released from purgatory on

01:32:27 something like the third Saturday. It's pretty

01:32:29 ridiculous. For the Roman Catholic Church... 1.00

01:32:30 And they have to stand by it. Yes. You have to say

01:32:33 like this was said

01:32:34 to go back, whether it be Unum Sanctum,

01:32:37 Trent, Vatican II,

01:32:39 some problems there. For Rome

01:32:41 to go back and say, hey, these were

01:32:43 wrong and we're taking them back.

01:32:45 That would be, I think, 5,000 years.

01:32:46 It's going to take time, but that would be my prayer. 0.98

01:32:49 So the Catholic Church removed

01:32:50 or the Catholic Church reformed? Reformed.

01:32:52 So you agree with Martin Luther?

01:32:55 The guy who started...

01:32:56 such cases protestantism so you have the historic protestant view right yeah what do you think yeah

01:33:02 i would say i was going to say the reformation uh my prayer my hope is that the reformation works

01:33:06 yes and uh i don't uh i don't i'm not blackpilled on that i think it will yes yep same for me so all

01:33:14 three of us are in agreement um and i think that that is one of the stark disagreements that we

01:33:19 have with some of our uh protestant and reformed brothers and sisters is that we believe that there

01:33:24 are many regenerate catholics despite some of the teachings some of the teachings of catholicism

01:33:31 why why would there be regenerate catholics um well because there are always going to be

01:33:38 inconsistent people um there's there's always going to be guys like taylor marshall himself

01:33:44 i i can't speak to his soul i can't speak to his heart god is omniscient but he said on our

01:33:49 podcast there are many sharp disagreements that he has with catholicism he's like i i do not like

01:33:56 that we did this i do not like that we did that uh so our prayer is it like like martin luther

01:34:02 martin luther um did not ultimately want to leave the catholic church he nailed his 95 theses on the

01:34:10 door you know the wittenberg uh door because he wanted to be able to discuss them and and he

01:34:16 wanted he was working it wasn't a theatrical thing that's why it was called the reformation

01:34:20 people forget this is like well i'm reformed reforming what reforming rome forming something

01:34:27 again yes they wanted they wanted to reform rome luther wanted to reform rome and rome at the time

01:34:35 was not having it and i would say that you know skip 500 years later they're still not having it

01:34:40 yeah um they're still not having it yeah and that's kind of my also but that's the goal yeah

01:34:44 exactly i think even a historical interpretation or you think about the american project it really

01:34:48 was protestants fleeing persecution yeah simply to make the continue to make the the protest to

01:34:56 to continue to try to make a case for the reformation um and so if you interpret history

01:35:00 that way then of course um and obviously we've we've gotten to a point where there's so many other

01:35:05 more prescient issues that we can't even really focus on that but that is at the heart of the

01:35:09 american experiment is to is to reform room yep yeah we want to see we want to see catholicism

01:35:17 reformed um that that is not my heart um is not that i i think that it's um i think it would be

01:35:25 a shame for a 2 000 year old church in rome to uh in the end to fall um and i believe that

01:35:33 ultimately, because God is just, if there's not repentance, that it will fall. But my hope and my

01:35:40 prayer is that it will not fall, but that rather it would be reformed. And so we want to see Roman

01:35:48 Catholicism reformed. We want to see a renouncement of some of the articles of Trent. We want to see

01:35:55 a renouncement of most, if not all, of Vatican II. We want to see an acknowledgement of wrong

01:36:02 and repentance from Rome.

01:36:04 And I think that there are many Catholics, 0.51

01:36:07 not all of them, of course, not all of them,

01:36:09 but there are many Catholics

01:36:10 who actually would agree with us and say,

01:36:13 yeah, I have problems with the Catholic church too. 0.98

01:36:15 I believe that it is a true church. 0.78

01:36:19 And so I belong to this church.

01:36:21 But yeah, I would like to see Rome repent.

01:36:27 And on that note, 1.00

01:36:28 I would like to see Protestants repent 0.97

01:36:30 of a great deal of things as well. 0.99

01:36:34 And that's what you have to realize.

01:36:36 Again, it's not the 1600s anymore.

01:36:39 John Calvin is not representative of Protestantism.

01:36:43 You have to recognize, well, I'm a reformed Protestant.

01:36:45 I'm a part of the OPC.

01:36:47 I'm a part of this or I'm a part of that.

01:36:49 Okay, great.

01:36:50 You represent 5%, maybe. 0.95

01:36:53 That's being generous, of Protestantism.

01:36:56 Think about this for a second.

01:36:57 um here you want to break down if we had like a graph you want to break down with protestantism

01:37:02 uh here in america um giant chunk of it 30 40 close to 50 percent of it mainline protestant 0.92

01:37:11 denominations all of them gay affirming blue-haired female pastors uh don't believe in a literal hell 0.95

01:37:21 they're universalist right you're like well catholics have embraced heresy you think 0.98

01:37:27 protestant like mainline protestants across the board have embraced heresy whether it's the

01:37:34 peace whether it's the presbyterian version or the baptist version or like at every single level

01:37:39 you go baptist you go presbyterian you go anglican you go episcopalian you go methodist

01:37:43 there is a mainline denomination within each of these veins and the mainline the one that has

01:37:49 all the property and has the church buildings and has this and the vestry and all all these things 0.98

01:37:53 they are gay affirming universalist don't believe in hell um they are heretics they are heretics 0.96

01:38:00 all right well but joel what about the rest of protestants okay so that's 30 to 40 okay here's 0.99

01:38:05 another 40 to 50 you ready for it joel osteen td jakes joyce meyer uh it is your mega church

01:38:16 warehouse smoke machine laser light prosperity word of faith gospel preaching zionist shills 0.61

01:38:26 that's that's your 40 to 50 percent a product so 30 to 40 percent mainline gay heretics uh 40 to 0.67

01:38:37 50% megachurch, also heretics. Word of faith is a heresy. And Zionist to boot. And then you've got 0.81

01:38:47 10-15% of Protestants in America that are traditional Protestants. OPC, PCA, some,

01:38:57 maybe half of the SBC. I'd like to think maybe 60%. Maybe there's hope. But it's a subset

01:39:06 of denominations, and then only a portion, a subset of the subset of these denominations that

01:39:12 haven't completely gone off the rail. Some Reformed Baptists, some Reformed Presbyterian,

01:39:17 a few Anglicans, like maybe two Episcopalians. That's it. That's it. So when everyone is like,

01:39:27 you're Reformed, you need to stick it to the Catholics. And I'll be like, okay, do you believe 1.00

01:39:33 that some Catholics despite the problems with Catholicism are regenerate yeah how many do you

01:39:41 think maybe like I feel like Abraham you know like talking about do you like do you feel like maybe

01:39:46 10 percent of Catholics well yeah maybe 10 percent oh great okay great so um so pretty much the same 0.55

01:39:53 as Protestants pretty much the same as Protestants I I think it's really helpful and I've done this

01:40:01 for years now, when I meet Catholics, I like to ask them, hey, I'm a Protestant, you're a Catholic,

01:40:05 what is your hope for salvation? When you get up on the final day and you stand before God,

01:40:10 what are you trusting in? And to a T, and this may not be your experience, and insofar as it's

01:40:14 not your experience, you need to say, oh, you said Mary, or you said this, or the saints,

01:40:19 hang on, brother, or hang on, friend, that's not it. But 80, 90%, I mean the most, literally,

01:40:25 It's a two-word answer, Jesus Christ.

01:40:27 What is your hope?

01:40:29 Jesus Christ.

01:40:29 He died for me.

01:40:31 So if you have someone that's saying, that is my belief, I'm a sinner, I'm in need of

01:40:35 a Savior, Jesus Christ died in my place, at face value, not knowing their soul, not knowing

01:40:40 their life, at face value, I think of Romans that says, if you will confess with your mouth,

01:40:45 Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart, God has raised him from the dead, you will

01:40:48 be saved.

01:40:49 For with the mouth, one confesses and is justified, and with the heart, one believes and is saved.

01:40:54 If someone is confessing, yes, Jesus Christ is Lord, and he died for me.

01:40:57 And on the third day, God rose him from the dead.

01:40:59 And who is Jesus?

01:41:00 He's the Son of God.

01:41:01 He's God himself.

01:41:02 He's sinless, born to the Virgin Mary, at the very least at face value.

01:41:06 I'd want to give it above a 50% chance that the words of the Bible are true,

01:41:11 that confessing Christ with your mouth and believing in him,

01:41:14 that is what the Bible says is to be saved.

01:41:17 So even if that's a tiny proportion, but there are Catholics, and say 90%, 0.74

01:41:22 what are you trusting in? 0.98

01:41:23 Well, the sinless blood of Mary

01:41:25 then transferred to Christ

01:41:27 and it was actually her blood.

01:41:28 Infused rather than imputed. 0.99

01:41:30 And there's Catholics that have done that. 0.96

01:41:31 That is not, hang on, no.

01:41:34 It does not say if you will confess with your mouth

01:41:35 Mary was sinless. 0.52

01:41:37 But if you're telling me, looking me in the eyes,

01:41:39 genuinely, as best I can tell,

01:41:41 Jesus died for me.

01:41:43 I'm trusting in him.

01:41:44 I'm going to want to give people the benefit of the doubt

01:41:46 and say, I hope to see you in heaven someday.

01:41:48 I agree with the charity.

01:41:50 And I would just say quick to that,

01:41:51 I mean, where you do want to challenge them and where we do disagree is that we would add that qualifier alone, right?

01:41:57 And so that's something you could be charitably and lovingly say, now do you trust in anything outside of Christ, right?

01:42:04 And so that's an important point if you want to push back, if you want to sort of make it about the gospel, you can make it about those issues.

01:42:12 But before that conversation, to assume that that's not there, I think is undue.

01:42:19 I don't think it's helpful.

01:42:19 I've seen the most Reformed guys, this would be Reformed Forum, so they're OPC guys, 0.97

01:42:23 they're reading through Voss, they're reading through Vantel, say the same thing. Rome is a 0.72

01:42:28 true but a very imperfect church. These are the Reformed guys, this isn't me saying it, 1.00

01:42:33 saying like, hey, there are still people here and there. They have their trust and faith in Christ.

01:42:37 Go up real quick. Nathan, go to the comments. I want to address someone, and I'm going to do it

01:42:42 charitably because they've followed us for a long time, and I appreciate them. But this is Cosmic

01:42:47 treason they say joel you share your ecumenicism with rome in common with tim keller rob bell

01:42:54 russell moore etc i just like to add another name doug wilson

01:42:58 the people are saying like james james white is right and you're going to swim the tiber

01:43:05 um no i'm not no i'm not uh first because of convictions second um because i i wasn't even

01:43:15 willing uh to swim across the aisle on baptism like for two years how many how long how long

01:43:23 and how many comments on the internet people saying joel's gonna swim you know he's gonna

01:43:27 become a pedo baptist he's gonna do this he's gonna do that and everybody was everybody was

01:43:32 for two years everybody was switching teams jared longshore he moved to moscow left founders you

01:43:37 know everybody was doing um and i didn't you know and i have strong disagreements with my baptist

01:43:43 brothers but i didn't so you so you think i'm gonna hold tight as a baptist versus presbyterian

01:43:50 for three years as people insistent uh incessantly putting pressure on me um but then one day i'm

01:43:58 just gonna go ahead and say you know what i've been thinking about presbyterianism for three years

01:44:03 but catholicism that's what i'm gonna do we had taylor marshall on i'm doing it yeah like i've

01:44:08 been partnering with pedo baptist for three years right i've been in brian survey's home i know his

01:44:14 children uh he's been in my home knows my wife knows my children i've been hanging out with

01:44:20 andrew risker i've been doing this with you know this guy and that guy and all this kind of stuff

01:44:25 but i had uh i had one catholic on the show and then i'm going to become i'm going to become 0.92

01:44:31 catholic uh that that's just cosmic treason i appreciate you that's foolish um and and you

01:44:38 should know better because you have been following us uh for quite a while you should know better 0.94

01:44:42 and if you want to talk about um being ecumenical um here's the thing it's like well james white

01:44:51 you know he's right you know who james white's not criticizing doug wilson you know who he's

01:44:57 happy to go and visit, happy to partner with, happy to do this, happy to do that, Doug Wilson.

01:45:03 Doug Wilson had E. Michael Jones on his show, who is a known, devout Catholic. He literally teaches

01:45:13 at ad nauseum, at great lengths, that the reason why Europe and America are going to hell in a

01:45:19 handbasket is the Enlightenment? Nope. Secular humanism? Nope. Wait for it. Islam? Nope.

01:45:25 the reformation

01:45:27 he hates

01:45:29 the reformation

01:45:31 he hates reformed theology

01:45:33 he is

01:45:34 he's not

01:45:34 it's not

01:45:35 that he is

01:45:36 well he speaks about this

01:45:39 and he's

01:45:39 you know

01:45:40 and then

01:45:40 as just a misnomer

01:45:42 he happens to be Catholic

01:45:43 no he believes

01:45:44 that is the secret

01:45:45 he's lock, stock, and barrel

01:45:46 he's lock, stock, and barrel 0.99

01:45:48 so Catholic 0.84

01:45:49 you know what else he is

01:45:49 let's just throw it out there

01:45:50 now I'm

01:45:53 I don't like this word

01:45:54 I don't think it's a helpful word

01:45:55 but according to the masses according to the ADL according to you know the neocons according to

01:46:01 pretty much everyone in the country um E. Michael Jones is not only Catholic he is a renowned

01:46:08 anti-Semite he wrote a 1500 page book on the revolutionary spirit the Jewish revolutionary

01:46:14 spirit so for him he's like two things ruin the world Jews and the Reformation Doug Wilson has

01:46:22 him on the show knowing that having read it and says you know what you're an anti-semite

01:46:27 and you hate the reformation and catholic could you come on the show again run run it back twice

01:46:37 twice where's the outcry where's the backlash where's james white wringing his hands

01:46:45 where is it like well i i went and talked to him privately talk to me privately

01:46:50 right what what i don't so so this idea of like well this is doug wilson has he literally has a

01:46:59 debate with james white from like a thousand years ago they're both fairly old at this point

01:47:05 it's um and i remember watching it back in the day and rooting for james white at the time you

01:47:11 know many such cases you know rooting for james white um where they're arguing over baptism is

01:47:19 a baptism performed within the catholic church if it be in the name of the father the son and

01:47:25 the holy spirit a valid baptism now it wasn't a debate whether or not the catholic church is a

01:47:31 true church it wasn't a debate whether or not the catholic church has held on to the true gospel

01:47:35 it wasn't a debate over this over that or mariology or you know all the rest but it was a debate over

01:47:40 the validity of baptism and doug wilson's defending position was yes this is a true baptism if someone

01:47:47 was baptized as an infant or an adult in the Roman Catholic Church, and they come to Christ

01:47:54 Church in Moscow, we are not going to re-baptize them. We're going to view that as a legitimate

01:48:00 baptism. And Doug Wilson, and I'm not picking on anybody, Doug Wilson, I think, has done a good

01:48:07 job. Obviously, we have our disagreements. He's not a fan of me, but I'll give honor where honor

01:48:13 do. Doug Wilson has done a good job. He has held this position consistently for decades and he has

01:48:20 never become Catholic. He hasn't. Got pretty dang close with some of the federal vision stuff,

01:48:25 you know, like pretty close, but never became a Catholic. And despite those affinities and those

01:48:32 partnerships, James White was willing to partner with Doug Wilson and continues to partner with

01:48:39 Doug Wilson, which again, I don't have a problem with. I'm just saying, let's be consistent.

01:48:45 I'm over here and I'm talking about, I'm not talking about, well, we should partner in our

01:48:51 churches or we should partner in evangelistic crusades. I'm saying politically and culturally,

01:48:56 absolutely, I think we need to partner. And I would like to see Rome reformed by the grace of

01:49:02 God over time, rather than simply just removed from the face of the earth. And I would like to

01:49:08 see protestantism reformed likewise because if i'm if i'm doing the math if i'm doing the math

01:49:15 at least here in america protestants and catholics and how many of them hold to heretical doctrines

01:49:21 whether it be word of faith over here with protestants or whether it be i never go to church

01:49:28 yeah like straight up like with catholics or you know adding works to the gospel or whatever it

01:49:34 may be um there are millions millions on both sides um and that's something that i think we

01:49:42 need to recognize so all right uh so nick jumped in gave another 20 super super kind he just had

01:49:50 another point on my beloved disby uncle as i think his views are typical of many baptists i would say

01:49:54 they are he particularly hates the papacy because it has a history of anti-semitism it's hard not to

01:50:00 criticized boomer evangelicals. Well, good news, in the 60s, so obviously after Nuremberg and all 0.95

01:50:07 of that, there was a bunch of Jews that lobbied the Catholic Church prior to Vatican II, and they 0.68

01:50:12 actually added a statement in there that condemned anti-Semitism. So again, based young right-wing 0.79

01:50:17 men. Apologies, but hardest hit. So it is Catholic doctrine on the books now, Vatican II. It's called

01:50:23 like a Nostro Erete or something like that. It starts with an N, starts with an A. And good news

01:50:29 for your uncle catholic church isn't anti-semitic anymore bad news for the catholic church bad news

01:50:34 for the catholic church good news for your uncle um just to follow through cosmic treason he

01:50:39 responded to what i just said and i was very charitable and kind i appreciate it he said

01:50:43 cosmic treason says the fact that i've been following you is partly why i'm invested why

01:50:49 i care why i'm making these kinds of comments it's because i care um i'm not just you know

01:50:53 online trashing you. I'm just genuinely concerned about some trends, but you haven't given me a

01:51:00 reason to condemn you. I appreciate that. And then he said, I've benefited from you a lot,

01:51:03 which is why I don't want to see you compromise. You raised good points about Doug. I don't think

01:51:09 the old guys are dead wrong in their concerns though. And if it's possible, it's so necessary 1.00

01:51:16 to have them as counselors. If it's possible, having older men as counselors is important.

01:51:22 I agree with that. Please try to seek reconciliation. And he said, for what it's worth,

01:51:28 I do think that they send against you. Appreciate that. And I don't know, I'll give you an update

01:51:36 10 years from now, you know, if we're able to bury the hatchet. We'll see. But I appreciate

01:51:43 that, Cosmic Treason. You've been very kind. And I wasn't trying to pick on you, but you just,

01:51:49 you know there's there's lots of guys you know this you watch the show you see the chat lots of

01:51:53 guys in the chat who are just trolling i responded to you because i know you're not trolling i know

01:51:57 that you've been around i've seen you um for at least a couple years now and so i felt like you

01:52:02 merited a response for you guys who are uh your top guys uh with right response um you matter

01:52:09 you matter to us and so we want to uh let you know that uh that we're listening uh you're you're

01:52:14 saying something in chat we're actually we're we're reading it we don't always respond live on

01:52:18 air but we're reading it we're taking it to heart and the guys who've been around for a while that

01:52:23 we know care about us and uh and who haven't been slandering us um that are praying for us that have

01:52:29 generously uh sought to support us um what you say uh carries weight and we listen and we are

01:52:36 prayerfully considering and uh i appreciate you all right uh any final thoughts that's all i got

01:52:42 i think we can end it on the conference someone asked about dates and updates yeah let's pull it

01:52:45 Yeah. So somebody was asking, you know, what's up with the conference? Can we get an update? So

01:52:51 this is Cameron Stevenson, good guy, faithful guy. Can we get an update on next year's conference?

01:52:55 Maybe a sneak peek regarding the theme slash main topic of discussion, guest speakers, et cetera.

01:53:01 I'm bringing my whole family next year. Well, spoiler alert, it will be all Catholic speakers.

01:53:09 Calvin Robinson, Ian Michael Jones.

01:53:11 yeah uh taylor taylor marshall every single one of them uh no we we intentionally are holding off

01:53:18 we have talked about this ad nauseum as a team behind the scenes in preparation and trying to

01:53:25 strategize and um i don't know uh we you know we have some ideas we're not really ready to unveil

01:53:32 anything as of yet um but but we have some ideas the dates uh we're holding the dates because we

01:53:38 sold tickets at our, our previous conference that we had and, and people signed up with those dates

01:53:44 in mind. And so I think we've sold close to about 300 tickets at like physically right there at the

01:53:50 conference that we just had. And the dates that we set that we told everybody back then, and we want

01:53:56 to honor and hold to these dates is Thursday, March 19th through Saturday, March 21st. Okay.

01:54:04 So Thursday, March 19th through Saturday, March 21st, the year of our Lord, 2026.

01:54:08 So we're going to hold to those dates in terms of theme and speakers.

01:54:13 First, I really need to kind of settle the theme.

01:54:15 And with the theme, part of what I'm trying to settle is not just the topic, but the strategy.

01:54:22 What are we trying to accomplish?

01:54:24 And that's kind of what we've been talking about, you know, behind the scenes, offline

01:54:29 as a team is where do we go from here?

01:54:33 what do we do uh because honestly i i said this on the panel of our conference uh this this past

01:54:40 year and i think a lot of people did not understand what i was saying at the time it's like one of

01:54:44 those things it's like you're not going to like this but your kids are going to love it um you

01:54:48 won't get it but this is what i see and i know that it's going to pan out to be right and you

01:54:54 will start to see it eventually you don't see it now but you will and one of the things i said is

01:54:59 I remember talking to, you know, to, uh, some of the conference speakers. I remember talking to the

01:55:03 Ogden boys, uh, for instance, and saying, um, you know, like, Hey, you know, I think, you know,

01:55:09 they were saying like, we, we went through a lot of division, uh, 2020, you know, the dark ages,

01:55:13 2020 through 2024 with the Biden presidency. You know, we had, you know, St. George Floyd,

01:55:18 we had BLM, we had COVID, we had all these different things and, um, mass immigration,

01:55:23 but but now we have a trump victory and so maybe um maybe all the fault lines have finally gone off

01:55:30 right maybe maybe now the dust can settle you know like there was division with some of you guys

01:55:36 probably don't even remember this maybe you're you're new to the game but uh 2022 it was the

01:55:42 great battle of uh of cn you know the battle between g3 font gate uh 2022 right it was a

01:55:49 terrible travesty that happened uh there was uh there was font that g3 used that was used for

01:55:56 the christian nationalist statement uh wasn't my idea personally but we did do it and that was that

01:56:03 was a big you know hullabaloo uh so there was battle over you know christian nationalism can

01:56:09 we have a christian nation you know uh g3 was basically you know arguing the same talking

01:56:13 points as he'll uh hillsdale's like write that down yeah hillsdale is like you know three years

01:56:18 behind you know uh kevin de young and hillsdale is like we're on the cutting edge of something

01:56:22 that uh everybody was talking about three years ago taking the worst talking point g3 deserves

01:56:26 credit in that sense at least at least you know they were making the terrible talking points about 0.59

01:56:30 well his kingdom's not of this world but at least they were making those terrible talking points

01:56:34 three years ago there's multiple accounts making those talking points yes multiple right so the 0.90

01:56:38 macarthurites the g3 guys everybody was like christian nationalism it'll never happen because

01:56:44 jesus said my kingdom is not of this world you can have a christian ministry a christian podcast 0.96

01:56:49 a christian school christian family but you will never have a christian nation um it was retarded 0.96

01:56:56 um but uh we've been there we've done that and so there was you know there was fallout you guys 0.91

01:57:01 remember that there was uh the great fallout over christian nationalism with g3 macarthur

01:57:06 uh there was the great fallout over uh the juice um you know in 2023 and 2024 with apologia

01:57:16 and uh ezra institute and moscow on one side and ogden and me and others you know andrew isker

01:57:23 the famous meme what if it's not envy you know and like and that the meme heard around the world

01:57:28 that did numbers you know and all that kind of stuff um you know moscow ended up you know having

01:57:32 to turn off the comments on that that video where isker was on with them because i was a 10 to 1

01:57:38 ratio of people you know siding with isker um against moscow and so you know that was that was

01:57:44 another battle and and i think guys you know when you know talking to guys you know at our conference

01:57:49 um they're like maybe we're you know maybe we're finally done the fault lines have finally you know

01:57:53 the dust has settled the fault lines have all gone off there's no more new ones and uh and now

01:57:58 now we can unite and i remember telling them personally and then telling everyone on the

01:58:04 panel i said uh um get ready for more division not less get ready for more division not less

01:58:11 because um i think the same same kind of principle right so the same concept that we said about you

01:58:18 know arguments about baptism this or that we said what do we say uh the intramural divisions is the

01:58:24 luxury of winning. It's a luxury of winning. And so if Christendom is reigning, let's argue

01:58:31 about baptism till we're blue in the face, right? And you can afford to divide over it, right?

01:58:36 Because when Christendom is reigning, you literally have, I mean, still in our America towns from a

01:58:41 bygone era, right? You can tell that the nation used to be Christian. How can you tell? Because 0.98

01:58:46 you can go to towns and there's literally like Church Street. It's literally the name of the

01:58:51 street downtown right in the center of the town and there's not one uh church there's there's 50

01:58:57 right methodist first baptist second baptist 14th baptist you know uh presbyterian another

01:59:04 presbyterian different kind of presbyterian episcopalian anglican catholic you know like

01:59:08 and just boom boom boom boom boom all the way down the line and and what does that symbolize

01:59:13 what that symbolizes is that there was a time when christendom was reigning in america and they

01:59:20 could afford the luxury of maintaining their distinct particulars. I want to worship in a

01:59:28 church with this group, and we disagree on what? The Trinity? No, we disagree. There's primary

01:59:36 theology, there's secondary, there's tertiary. No, we disagree on like third tier, fourth tier,

01:59:42 fifth tier, and we're going to start a whole other church because of like a fifth tier disagreement.

01:59:47 out. Why? Because everybody in town is Christian. Because we can afford to, right? It's a different

01:59:55 calculus when you're on the ropes. And so my same point of like, hey, you know what? Right now,

02:00:05 I think we need a little bit of unity on the cultural and political side of the equation

02:00:10 when it comes to Catholics. 0.95

02:00:13 Well, the moment we start winning 0.99

02:00:15 and solidify that victory,

02:00:18 that unity will dissipate

02:00:20 between Protestants and Catholics. 0.99

02:00:22 The moment that we secure a Christian nation 1.00

02:00:25 and fend off the Muslims and the atheists 1.00

02:00:29 and the Jews and everybody else 1.00

02:00:31 and the gay mafia, 0.99

02:00:32 then you're going to see that feud 0.99

02:00:35 between Catholics and Protestants.

02:00:36 It's not going to just go away.

02:00:37 You're talking about centuries-old feud

02:00:40 and nobody's forgotten. And those things have not been ironed out. The distinctions, the

02:00:45 differences are still there. The divisions are still there. They're just not the chief priority

02:00:50 right now. But they will be if the things that right now are a chief priority get solved and

02:00:57 Christendom is reigning. Well, on the flip side, so this is kind of reverse, that's macro. In the

02:01:02 micro, we just had a Trump election. And my prediction that I said at the conference was,

02:01:10 because of trump being elected uh because he's going to lock down the border i don't know if

02:01:15 we get you know the mass deportations but lock down the border um you're not going to have you

02:01:19 know like um the you know the craziness of wokeness and blm and these kinds of things that 0.89

02:01:24 we had before um i actually think this for a lot of people this will be the temptation for a lot

02:01:30 of people they're going to say this is enough this is enough this is good got what i voted for

02:01:38 got what i voted for um you know commercials are a little less gay uh you know they're putting a 0.53

02:01:46 little bit of the woke away a little bit of the woke is getting put away commercials are a little

02:01:51 less gay uh immigration has slowed down and um and you know they're starting to arrest you know 0.68

02:01:58 people when they uh commit crimes again and actually you know punish people and uh that's

02:02:04 that's good and and because i knew that people would think that i'm talking about some of our

02:02:09 guys will think like that uh trump is in power let's uh let's let's lock in right because trump

02:02:18 is in power jd vance is a successor and uh and we don't want to we don't want to ruin our chances

02:02:25 because we might get influence we might you know hey jd vance you know one of us one of us one of

02:02:33 us um whereas i'm not of that persuasion i don't think that jd vance is one of us and so i said

02:02:42 at the conference i said uh because this will be perceived as a victory in the objective yes it's

02:02:48 better than kamala there is a victory um but but at the same time there's there's a ton of victory

02:02:56 that we haven't even scratched this the tip of the iceberg um we've gotten some victory objectively

02:03:02 but subjectively i knew that in terms of perception some guys would view it as this is enough

02:03:08 got what i voted for this is enough victory and the moment that that happens here's the deal

02:03:14 again i said intramural divisions is the luxury of victory and so if you have on the team guys

02:03:22 who perceive something as a major victory then they will be comfortable starting to divide

02:03:29 starting to divide and so for us we've we've made and i think this is clear i think you guys know

02:03:35 what team we're on and where we're headed we made a clear calculus deliberate and intentional and we

02:03:42 said it's not enough we did not get what we voted for it's not enough and uh and we are going to

02:03:50 chimp. And we are going to push further, demand further. We are not content with the tech right

02:04:00 and Peter Thiel. We are not content with borders closed, but there's 105 million people here who

02:04:08 shouldn't be here. And you need 105 million mass deportations. Well, we're on schedule for 2 0.94

02:04:15 million. We're not content with that. And so we are continuing to talk about things that we think

02:04:21 need to be talked about. And so because of that, I don't think that the team has gotten broader.

02:04:28 I think the team has gotten exponentially narrower, exponentially narrower. And so we have to decide,

02:04:37 and these are guys we love. So I'm not saying anything negative about anybody. We love,

02:04:41 we are still friends. But we have to decide in terms of forward-facing with something like a

02:04:48 conference, what is the strategy? What's the purpose of a right response conference? What

02:04:54 are we trying to achieve? What are we trying to accomplish? Are we going to push the envelope?

02:05:00 Are we going to keep pushing the envelope? Are we going to have the kinds of conversations that we

02:05:04 think need to be had? Are we going to talk about the tech right? Are we going to talk about ushering

02:05:10 in transhumanism. Are we going to talk about Elon Musk, Peter Thiel, David Sachs,

02:05:18 J.D. Vance? Are we going to talk about these things? If so, well, just to be frank,

02:05:26 that makes the drawing pool a lot shallower for not who I would be willing to have,

02:05:36 but honestly who would be willing to come

02:05:39 to that conference and share that stage and so uh unfortunately i don't have a better answer for

02:05:48 you at this time um but part of the reason we are intentionally going to delay on uh giving more

02:05:56 details about topic theme speakers with the conference is um trump one and all of our guys

02:06:05 are doing the calculus and everybody here's the deal right to steel man it to be as charitable

02:06:13 as possible everybody has a different goal based off of what they're doing it's it's based off of

02:06:19 what they're doing right some guys like they're trying to win the sbc god bless them noble endeavor

02:06:25 but if you're trying to win over normie boomers in the sbc you're probably not going to go

02:06:33 and do a conference pointing out Jewish power.

02:06:38 You're just not.

02:06:40 Some guys are working towards, you know,

02:06:45 a future position in, you know,

02:06:49 or at least the potential of getting the call

02:06:51 for an advanced administration pick in 2028.

02:06:58 Well, some of the things that we're saying

02:07:01 are not conducive with that aim and so we uh we've got to think we've got to uh to make a careful

02:07:11 and deliberate determination of what we want the conference to accomplish and um and we we may

02:07:21 there is serious consideration that we we're about this close all right i don't want to give too much

02:07:27 away but we're about this close to uh determining this year we're going to cap the conference that

02:07:33 we're going to um intentionally say you know what we're only going to let like 400 people come

02:07:39 instead of a thousand like we did you know this year um by design we're going to cap it at 400

02:07:45 we're going to turn away a ton of people um we may even do some like uh like reserve 50 tickets

02:07:53 that are invite-only so that the guys that we know see what we see

02:07:59 and are on board with what we're on board with so that they get in

02:08:02 and then not broadcast any of the conference,

02:08:07 not make any of it available to the public, do a symposium,

02:08:12 bust out some whiteboards, do some serious strategy,

02:08:17 allow for uh q a and uh brainstorming uh strategizing planning um with the conference

02:08:27 attendees this is what we're doing this is practically how we're going to achieve it

02:08:31 we need uh guys in this field and in this field and this field this location this town this state

02:08:38 we're going to win this way um that's kind of at this point that's kind of where i'm leaning

02:08:44 and uh and so it would be very different uh than what we have done thus far and intentionally so

02:08:52 my design and uh you will hear eventually because we'll have to make a decision eventually

02:08:58 um you'll hear of eventually a official public uh statement about this is our conference this

02:09:05 is what it's on this is who's coming and uh and this is what we're doing but uh we right now we

02:09:12 are we haven't fully gone there but we i i would say at least i'll speak for myself i am on the

02:09:18 precipice of uh of making that decision of uh we're going to pivot we're going to go this direction

02:09:26 we're going to cap it we're going to do this thing and we're going to only open it up uh both

02:09:31 speakers and attendees alike to a select few uh because we have to win and people think we already

02:09:39 won and i don't think we have i actually think that there is a bigger enemy lurking

02:09:45 a bigger enemy lurking and um and we need to talk about it and we need guys who are willing

02:09:53 to talk about it with us and not everybody is so that's the thought okay uh is is that it or

02:10:01 did we get one more we got one more brandon raby uh he gave us 20 thank you so much super chat we

02:10:07 appreciate that he said god bless you guys keep up the great work and uh he says shut up and take

02:10:12 my money god bless you all right that's it for the week and uh we will see you uh well so we'll

02:10:19 be actually um all four of us me antonio wes and nathan will be in florida and uh we are going to

02:10:28 be uh strategizing and prepping some stuff with elijah shaffer i'll hop on a couple shows with

02:10:34 him but we're also going to be strategizing we're doing some things uh with with rift tv and

02:10:39 preparing some future things that'll be announced uh getting ready for that i'm excited about that

02:10:44 and uh so we're going to be doing that next week so if you want to watch us live uh tune in to rift

02:10:48 tv and uh and you'll see uh me doing some stuff with elijah shaffer talking about protestantism

02:10:54 uh talking about um how to how to get protestants wean them off of zionism and get them back on

02:11:00 track and uh and in terms of right response uh what we've done is we've worked uh we've worked 0.93

02:11:07 double time uh the last couple weeks to prepare for this so we have fresh content uh it's not

02:11:13 going to be a bunch of reruns we've recorded uh multiple fresh never seen before episodes

02:11:19 but they are pre-recorded so we won't be doing super chats we won't be engaging live with the

02:11:24 audience uh there'll be shorter episodes since we're not doing the super there won't be hour

02:11:28 and a half two hour mondo episodes uh they will be you know 60 minute episodes but on uh fresh

02:11:34 never seen before content uh prescient topics i think you'll be blessed by it so we're not leaving

02:11:38 you hanging not leaving you with nothing we thought about you and we prepared to double work

02:11:42 so that uh so that the show can go on for you the people for you the people so thanks for tuning in

02:11:48 and check out our content that we have pre-recorded for next week and if you want to see me live with

02:11:53 Elijah Schaefer. Tune in to Rift TV, and then we will be back the following week, Lord willing.

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The NXR Podcast - August 22, 2025

THE LIVESTREAM - FRIDAY MEGASTREAM： Shillsdale College and Should Protestants Partner with Catholics？

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