The NXR Podcast - THE LIVESTREAM - FRIDAY MEGASTREAM： Shillsdale College and Should Protestants Partner with Catholics？

00:00:00.000 Leave us a five-star review on your favorite podcast platform.

00:00:03.820 I get it.

00:00:04.620 It's annoying.

00:00:05.380 Everybody asks, but I'm going to tell you why.

00:00:07.420 When you give us a positive review, what that does is it triggers the algorithm so that

00:00:12.440 our podcast shows up on more people's news feeds.

00:00:16.280 You and I both know that this ministry is willing to talk about things that most ministries

00:00:20.820 aren't.

00:00:21.860 We need this content for the glory of God to reach more people's ears.

00:00:30.780 So we had Dr. Taylor Marshall join the show on Wednesday, just 48 hours ago.

00:00:36.780 We talked about Catholicism.

00:00:38.260 We talked about Protestantism.

00:00:39.820 We talked about immigration, all sorts of different things. 0.93

00:00:42.720 We even talked about in the beginning dispensationalism and the red heifers and all the Zionist crazy things that we see happening in our world today.

00:00:51.240 And in typical fashion, Reform Twitter absolutely lost their minds and cannot believe that I would

00:00:59.500 have a Roman Catholic join us on the show. Immediately, I began to be anathematized by

00:01:07.120 those who are Protestant and Reformed. And so I want to respond to that today. Let me give you 0.95

00:01:12.860 just a sample. There were tons of guys who came out of the woodwork. Here's one example. This is

00:01:18.100 from an account on Twitter called J.C. Ryle, okay? And he says this, who is the biggest enemy of the

00:01:25.880 gospel and has led countless millions into the lake of fire throughout the ages? Rome. Islam may

00:01:33.640 kill the body, but it cannot kill the soul. Rome kills souls. And do not fear those who kill the 1.00

00:01:41.420 body but cannot kill the soul, but rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

00:01:48.380 A quote from Holy Scripture from the book of Matthew. Here's my response, and I want everybody

00:01:54.120 to hear this loud and clear. This is my definitive position on the matter, and some of my Protestant

00:02:00.320 brothers who I love need to wake up. I wrote back this, Islam doesn't kill the soul? Are you serious?

00:02:08.100 and you're a Christian? Islam sends souls to hell by the millions every year. Wake the hell up. 1.00

00:02:15.700 It's not the 1600s anymore. The reformers, of whom I love and cherish, lived in a world where

00:02:23.040 Christendom ruled the day. We live in a day when Christendom is but a faint shadow of her former

00:02:29.880 glory, barely on life support. There were no Muslim hordes turning hundreds of cathedrals 1.00

00:02:37.200 into mosques when Christendom was ruling. There was no nation-state of Israel with Jews doing 1.00

00:02:43.480 everything in their power to start World War III when Christendom was reigning. There were no drag 1.00

00:02:50.520 queen story hours with tens of thousands of sodomites attempting to indoctrinate our children 0.57

00:02:56.240 and weaponize the state to take them away from you when Christendom was radiant. Catholicism 0.90

00:03:03.520 was the dominant threat to the original reformers because it was the only threat to the reformers. 0.98

00:03:10.520 But now we are crushed by Jewry, by Islam, secular humanism, gay race communism, crony capitalism that 0.99

00:03:19.220 makes it where your children will never own a home, and on and on and on. And to top it all off, 1.00

00:03:26.240 millions upon millions of our children have been slaughtered in their mother's wombs. And you pick 0.76

00:03:32.280 Catholics as your arch enemy? Did your parents not teach you shame? If Calvin and Luther were 0.97

00:03:39.100 here today and briefed on everything that has occurred in the last 500 years since they were

00:03:44.520 gone, Rome would be so far down their list of concerns that it wouldn't even make the top 50.

00:03:52.780 I will defend the Protestant faith. I will defend the doctrines of grace. I will defend the gospel

00:03:59.060 of Jesus Christ, but any Catholic who is willing to lock arms with me to stare down the coming 0.87

00:04:06.240 hordes of demons will have my aid. The Reformed today are like dogs chasing a car. We wouldn't 1.00

00:04:13.620 even know what to do with it if we caught it. Going further, I said that they are like people,

00:04:21.040 the Reformed, dressing up and reenacting the Civil War year after year, the true epitome of LARPing, 1.00

00:04:27.680 chasing a mouse. Meanwhile, their own children rest in the jaws of lions. The Reformed tradition

00:04:34.480 will always be my home, but today's Reformed ghetto is like a noose around my neck, ever 1.00

00:04:41.100 purity spiraling, perpetual losers. That's where we are. People need to wake up. They need to know 1.00

00:04:49.500 what time it is. I truly believe that one of the reasons why Reformed folk are constantly talking 1.00

00:04:55.840 about Rome is because it's easier to relive the days of fighting the dragon from the 1600s 0.77

00:05:02.880 than it is to fight the dragon who is alive and at large in your present context.

00:05:10.640 We're avoiding real fights. Does Rome get doctrine wrong? Serious doctrine wrong? Yes,

00:05:18.800 I believe they do. I'm a Protestant at the end of the day. So yes, I maintain serious theological

00:05:25.200 disagreements with Roman Catholicism. And yet at the same time, we are facing a Muslim invasion. 1.00

00:05:32.900 We are facing radical Zionism and an occupied government by Jews here in America. We're facing 0.94

00:05:42.780 Drag Queen Story Hour. We're facing the LGBT LMNOP mafia. We have several enemies at large 1.00

00:05:51.660 that we need to focus on today. There's a difference in partnering with someone in your

00:05:56.760 local church or partnering with someone in the realm of theology or evangelistic crusades,

00:06:03.240 as Billy Graham did later in life, and I have strong disagreements with that decision. It's

00:06:08.700 different partnering with someone in the realm of the church versus being co-belligerents in the

00:06:14.380 political and cultural realm. We have to wake up. We have to know what time it is, and we have to

00:06:21.900 be able to fight the enemies at hand and be willing to link arms with anyone we can as a

00:06:28.040 co-belligerent in the realm of politics and culture. And I see Catholics in many ways as

00:06:34.240 willing to join us in that fight. That's what we're going to be talking about in today's episode.

00:06:40.340 we're also going to be talking about some of the pitfalls that we see on both sides of the aisle. 0.87

00:06:45.520 I see a propensity for Protestants to embrace Zionism. I see a propensity for Catholics to 0.93

00:06:52.080 embrace globalism. We're going to flesh those ideas out and talk about some of the solutions. 0.89

00:06:58.140 And then, of course, we're also going to address, at least briefly in our first segment,

00:07:02.960 a story that is fresh from this week in regards to Shillsdale College that says,

00:07:10.820 you know what? You can't have a Christian nation. Sorry. But in their bylaw says,

00:07:16.560 we're a Christian college. So you can have a Christian family. You can have a Christian

00:07:20.800 college. You can have a Christian restaurant or a Christian Fortune 500 company. The one thing you

00:07:26.720 can't have is a Christian nation. And why? The same tired, mis-exegeted text again and again, 1.00

00:07:34.560 because Jesus said, my kingdom is not of this world. Hillsdale should know better. In fact,

00:07:40.200 I would argue they do know better, and that what they're presenting is intentionally subversive.

00:07:46.200 That's the show for today. It is a Mondo mega-livestream. Buckle up, get ready. This episode

00:07:52.860 is brought to us by our premier sponsors, Armored Republic and Reese Fund, as well as our Patreon

00:07:58.940 supporters and our generous donors. If you'd like to join the Patreon to get exclusive content,

00:08:05.040 you can do so by going to patreon.com forward slash rightresponseministries. And if you'd like

00:08:11.200 to make a generous donation that's tax deductible, a charitable donation today, you can do so by

00:08:17.320 going to rightresponseministries.com forward slash donate. Again, go to rightresponseministries.com

00:08:24.800 forward slash donate. That's the only thing that keeps us in the game is your generosity. And so

00:08:31.420 if you've been blessed by this ministry, you know that we're constantly under attack. You know that

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00:08:46.280 today. Again, that's rightresponseministries.com forward slash donate. Let's tune into the show.

00:09:01.040 Well, gentlemen, happy Friday. Happy Friday. We're back. Yep. Well, if you were looking for

00:09:05.860 a Christian college to send your kid to, right? So you have a son, he wants to go, he wants to

00:09:10.520 get a trade, whether it be engineering, whether it be the arts, he's inclined that way. Let's be

00:09:14.600 honest, you have a pretty small list of places that you'd feel comfortable. For one, I mean,

00:09:19.440 most state colleges, public universities, just the people who's going to be around. I think most

00:09:23.840 parents, Christian parents would say, I can't do that. That is going to be a party every single 0.96

00:09:28.260 weekend. And even if he's a good kid, we have to remember, Paul makes no apologies in 1 Corinthians

00:09:32.920 15. Bad company corrupts good morals. He literally prefaces, do not be deceived. So Paul is clear

00:09:38.700 about that. If you take that to heart, you're like, man, my options for education are local,

00:09:42.880 which if you live in North Dakota, Montana, the local options aren't great.

00:09:47.460 And as far as Christian colleges, honestly, Grove City College, Hillsdale,

00:09:51.800 you have some other more fundamentalist ones like Bob Jones.

00:09:54.420 You don't have a lot of great ones.

00:09:55.780 Even Liberty, it's like, really, you're going to go in here with your resume,

00:09:59.940 with Liberty University on there.

00:10:02.240 So a big one has been Hillsdale's College.

00:10:03.940 They're based out of Hillsdale, Michigan, been around since 1844.

00:10:07.860 And I think they kind of got the pass because they've been this legacy institution, right?

00:10:11.160 Well, it's Hillsdale College, and they may not be hip on everything going on right this moment.

00:10:16.140 But, I mean, come on.

00:10:16.880 They're one of the longest-standing Christian colleges out there.

00:10:20.840 Well, the president of Hillsdale sat down with Reverend Kevin DeYoung from the PCA, I believe.

00:10:26.120 That's his denomination.

00:10:27.400 Sat down with him to have a conversation.

00:10:28.900 There was a brief moment that they chose to highlight as a little bit of a trailer and a,

00:10:33.180 hey, coming out soon.

00:10:34.440 We've got this episode.

00:10:35.820 You're not going to want to miss it.

00:10:37.100 Here's a sneak peek.

00:10:37.820 And so let's listen to the part that they pulled out and said,

00:10:40.360 this is what you're going to want to hear from us.

00:10:42.420 This is the podcast of the president of a Christian college.

00:10:45.720 It's important to note, this was not somebody else clipping them out of context.

00:10:48.740 If you want to see clips taken out of context by fierce opposition

00:10:53.260 that want a ministry to be destroyed,

00:10:55.600 look for all the clips from Right Response Ministries from all our detractors.

00:10:58.700 This was them.

00:11:00.160 This was Shillsdale themselves saying, you know what I think is awesome

00:11:03.800 and really, really presents our position well.

00:11:07.460 Boom.

00:11:07.700 The episode's not out yet, but hang on.

00:11:10.120 We're going to whet your appetite.

00:11:11.740 Here it is. 0.72

00:11:12.140 Let's go ahead and play that clip.

00:11:13.620 George Washington's first inaugural, part of it written by James Madison.

00:11:18.580 Our republic is founded in the great fact and the whole course and economy of nature,

00:11:24.040 the indissoluble connection between virtue and happiness.

00:11:27.780 That's just a summary of Aristotle's Nicomachean ethics.

00:11:30.880 And you said something really important with the letter that Washington writes to the Jewish synagogue.

00:11:37.700 there is a difference between liberty and toleration, that those were not identical.

00:11:43.480 So religious toleration is we have an established church, we have a state religion,

00:11:48.800 we will tolerate those who are dissenters.

00:11:52.060 Liberty is a more expansive definition, and until you were reading it there,

00:11:57.720 again, I had forgotten that Washington makes that important connection.

00:12:01.620 Yeah. You know, Hillelville College is famous, which is a good thing, almost always.

00:12:11.860 But some mischievous journalist writes,

00:12:15.300 but they are admired by the Christian nation. And I wrote a letter to the editor,

00:12:21.300 and they printed it. I just said, somebody admiring somebody else doesn't necessarily

00:12:27.940 say anything about somebody else. That's right. But if they do admire,

00:12:31.620 hillsdale college they will learn from it that a christian nation is not possible because jesus

00:12:39.380 kingdom is not of this world i'm inspired can i enroll my young children now in hillsdale for

00:12:47.700 when they grow up you mean they can go there and they can learn there's no such thing as a christian 0.95

00:12:51.320 nation yeah uh based chat are we back uh ridiculous we are not back they are not that 0.89

00:12:57.820 we're back we're back they're not uh that and we've done this exegesis before but i think it's

00:13:03.140 helpful to go over it again this is from john and uh and it's pontius pilot he's grilling jesus

00:13:08.620 this is from john and i'll take it from here i actually do want to say something but go ahead

00:13:13.200 go ahead i was going to say he's grilling him because you remember the accusations brought

00:13:16.460 against jesus are he's basically fomenting a revolt against rome so the the religious rulers

00:13:21.540 of the day they put jesus up they're like this guy is getting ready to form a revolution and

00:13:26.540 form his own kingdom. He's been talking about the kingdom of heaven. I mean, this guy's a

00:13:29.900 religious zealot. And Pontius Pilate's like, is this true? Like, give it to me straight. Do you

00:13:36.300 have a kingdom? And Jesus responds to him, my kingdom is not of this world. Joel, you want to

00:13:41.560 take it from there? Yep. Kingdom is not of this world. Here's the deal. People will look at that

00:13:45.980 and they'll say, well, at the end of the day, Jesus had no interest in civil politics, worldly

00:13:50.940 affairs, temporal, you know, civil reigning and ruling. That is not the case. One of the three

00:13:57.900 temptations when Satan, right, when the Spirit, it's right after Jesus' baptism, the Spirit actually

00:14:03.620 leads Jesus into the wilderness where he fasts from food and water for 40 days. And after he's

00:14:10.100 in the human nature at his most vulnerable and weakest point, Satan then seizes an opportune

00:14:16.000 time, comes to the Christ and tempts him in three different ways. And one of the temptations is that

00:14:21.780 Satan takes Jesus up to a hillside and then shows him all the kingdoms of the world. And I think

00:14:28.620 that this is probably supernatural, that he's actually giving a visible view, but also even

00:14:36.400 spiritually like a vision and showing him, here's this kingdom way over, something going on in

00:14:42.300 Egypt, and here's something going on here in Jerusalem, and here's Rome, and here's all the

00:14:46.300 powers of the world, right? Here's all the kingdoms. And Jesus refuses the offer. Now, here's the deal.

00:14:53.540 The offer that Satan makes, the contingency, is that I will give you all the kingdoms of the world

00:14:59.020 if you bow down and worship me. And Jesus, again, he does this with all three temptations. He quotes

00:15:05.540 the scripture. It is written, you shall not worship anyone but God alone. And so he refuses the

00:15:11.960 temptation. Now, this is where the pietist comes in and says, you see, Jesus is an interest in 0.87

00:15:17.060 politics. Jesus doesn't really care about the temporal, you know, human civil kingdoms of the 0.50

00:15:23.140 world. Now, Jesus is not interested in the kingdoms of the world being given to him by the devil at

00:15:29.600 the cost of idolatry. So when Jesus says, no, no, no, I'm not going to take this offer, essentially

00:15:35.580 what Jesus is saying is, I don't need you, Satan, to give me the kingdoms of the world because I'm

00:15:40.000 going to take them. I'm going to take them. You're not going to give them to me by me being subservient

00:15:45.700 and idolatrous and blasphemous and worshiping you. No, I'm going to take them and I'm going

00:15:50.160 to do it victoriously by my death and resurrection and glorious, vicarious ascension to the right

00:15:56.260 hand of God, the Father Almighty. Jesus is absolutely interested in the kingdoms of the

00:16:02.440 world, but he's going to gain ruling and reigning the right way. Now, to flesh it out even a little

00:16:08.920 bit more. God appointed Adam in the garden as federal head over all creation, not just Eve and

00:16:16.160 their posterity, not just humankind, but all of earthly creation. He gave him dominion over the

00:16:22.020 birds of the air and the fish of the sea and the beast of the field. Adam is viceroy. Adam is 0.88

00:16:28.100 steward of all the earthly cosmos, all of creation. When Adam chose willfully to sin and to join his

00:16:36.260 wife in eating of the forbidden fruit in that moment he forfeited his dominion to the prince

00:16:42.620 of the air so satan begins to be known by this title that he is um he is prince of the world

00:16:50.420 he is prince of the air all of a sudden he gains because adam by his sin he forfeited his god-given

00:16:57.220 dominion over the earthly cosmos and he forfeits that when he forfeits it it's not just left lying

00:17:03.480 on the ground, but it's taken up by Satan. Satan now has real authority over the worldly kingdom.

00:17:10.040 So when Satan goes to Jesus, this is not a fake offer. When Satan goes to Christ in the temptation

00:17:15.840 of the wilderness, and he says, I'll give you the kingdoms, it's because the kingdoms of the world

00:17:20.460 at that moment, from the moment of Adam's sin all the way until Christ's victory, they really did

00:17:25.700 belong to Satan. He actually had authority of them over these earthly kingdoms. This is why in

00:17:30.720 the book of Daniel. When the angel finally gets to Daniel to give to him a revelation, he says,

00:17:35.500 I'm sorry that I've been held up, that I'm late in coming because I had to fight with the prince

00:17:40.660 of Persia, right? The Bible talks about princes and principalities. During the time of, you know,

00:17:47.340 post-lapsarian, after sin entered the world with Adam, and until the second Adam, the better Adam,

00:17:52.560 Jesus Christ, regains this dominion and takes it back. In between these two time periods,

00:17:58.900 Satan is the ruler of this age. He's the ruler of the prince of the air of the worldly kingdoms

00:18:05.020 and domains during that time. And there were a principality. A lot of people don't understand

00:18:10.040 this. It's like a state. It's a region. It's like provinces in Canada. A principality is the

00:18:18.320 geographic region. The prince was not the human king or ruler that was set up over it, like the

00:18:24.500 king of Babylon or something like that. No, the prince is actually the spiritual entity, a demon,

00:18:31.380 a fallen angel that was subservient to one of the chief fallen angels, the chief fallen angel,

00:18:37.300 namely Satan. And Satan was ruling the world, and he did so geographically by appointing certain

00:18:43.300 regions to his minions. So there actually was a king over Persia, a human king, but then a prince

00:18:51.700 over that principality, that region, a demonic prince whispering in his ear. Think of the

00:18:59.140 Rohans, right? And where all, you know, Saruman, this wicked wizard, there's still a physical 1.00

00:19:06.160 human king on the throne in Rohan, but he is being controlled from a distance from a spiritual power.

00:19:13.640 So that's what's going on. So when Satan comes to Jesus, he makes this offer. It's a valid offer.

00:19:18.440 It's a real offer. Satan is saying, look, God gave earthly dominion to Adam. Adam, by his sin,

00:19:24.120 forfeited that earthly dominion to me. I now rule the kingdoms of this earth, but I'll give them

00:19:29.800 back to you. And all it costs, all it costs is idolatry. And Jesus says, no, not because he's

00:19:37.040 not interested in politics, not because he's not interested in these temporal affairs or the

00:19:42.520 the kingdoms of the world. Jesus is saying, no, I'm not going to be given the kingdoms by idolatry.

00:19:48.540 I'm going to take the kingdoms by my life, death, and resurrection. And that's precisely what Jesus

00:19:55.120 does. So when Jesus says, my kingdom, get into that, is not of this world. He's talking about

00:20:00.180 the nature of the kingdom, not its location. So he's not saying, my kingdom is a kingdom merely

00:20:06.720 confined to the 17th dimension. My kingdom is simply somewhere up in the clouds where there's

00:20:13.300 little baby angels playing harps. He's not saying I have an ethereal and merely strictly spiritual

00:20:19.780 kingdom that never transfers or has any domain in the earthly physical world. When Jesus says

00:20:27.080 my kingdom is not of this world, he doesn't say my kingdom is not in this world. I'll say that

00:20:32.060 again, you have to understand, Jesus is not saying my kingdom is not in this world. He's saying my

00:20:37.180 kingdom is not of this world. Meaning what? That the source of authority and power of Christ's

00:20:43.240 kingdom, which is in heaven and in this world on earth, is a heavenly source. It's a divine source.

00:20:50.380 So the source of his power, the nature of his kingdom is not worldly, right? The nature of his

00:20:56.140 kingdom, the manner of his kingdom, is not of a source that is of worldly power. But to say that

00:21:02.420 his kingdom in terms of location does not breach into the physical cosmos is a crazy misunderstanding

00:21:09.620 of Scripture. The last thing that Jesus says before giving the Great Commission, before he is

00:21:14.660 ascending and then hidden behind the clouds, is he prefaces his statement of going and making

00:21:20.320 disciples of the nations of of earthly nations making them disciples not just making disciples

00:21:26.540 out of the nations of individual people but that the nations themselves would flock to mount zion

00:21:31.720 they would become subservient to king jesus that the nations would be christianized that they would

00:21:36.760 be baptized into the triune name of the father the son and the holy spirit and jesus that's his last

00:21:42.420 command commission given to the apostles and to preface it he says this all authority all rule

00:21:50.020 all reign all kingly authority on earth and in heaven has been given to me so christ is king

00:21:59.700 he's king of jews he's king of muslims he's king of atheists he's king of hindus um it's not whether

00:22:06.460 but which it's not whether or not christ is king he is your king nobody makes jesus king god the

00:22:14.180 father made jesus king when he rose jesus on the third day bodily from the grave and he then

00:22:21.480 exalted him to the place of honor with a name above all other names christ the anointed one

00:22:28.460 lord kurios god made his son jesus king and he has authority both in heaven and on earth he is not

00:22:37.040 merely relegated in his kingship to a spiritual 17th dimension ethereal kingship it is a heavenly

00:22:44.400 kingship and an earthly kingship and whether you're muslim or jewish or or atheist or whatever

00:22:50.220 it is jesus is your king you don't make him king jesus is your king you can love him or hate him

00:22:56.280 you can bless him or curse him but he is your king in every knee it's not if it's merely when

00:23:01.760 every knee will bow and every tongue will confess some knees will bow by grace some knees will break

00:23:09.420 right even matthew henry the puritan said this some knees will bend others will break when he

00:23:15.080 who rules the kingdoms of the earth with an iron scepter breaks their kneecaps on the final day

00:23:21.420 he is king he is king and shillsdale college doesn't know what they're talking about

00:23:26.920 yeah it's uh i i mean one thing you have to just recognize too i think and we'll we'll pull up a

00:23:33.840 little excerpt here from the about page of hillsdale.edu but one thing you i mean it

00:23:38.500 immediately recognized joel after you articulate it that way is okay that's a reformed covenantal

00:23:43.460 view of scripture hillsdale wasn't founded on that um in many ways i'm sure they're just

00:23:48.640 completely unfamiliar that that sort of thing isn't taught but that aside i do find it sort of

00:23:53.420 a little jarring that one of the final things that Christ says, you know, you typically hang

00:23:59.100 on to those final few comments from somebody. Let me wrap it all up for you here. All authority

00:24:03.680 on heaven and earth. Not some, not most in heaven, you know, some a little in earth, on earth,

00:24:10.060 but all of it is his. And even on that scripture alone, the fact that, you know, an Arminian can't 0.99

00:24:17.020 grasp this sort of thing is a little jarring. But let's pull up. So I want to read this because 0.99

00:24:22.600 there's a couple insights from this little, this piece that you find on the about page right at

00:24:28.160 the top at hillsdale.edu. They say, talking a little bit about their history, what they're

00:24:32.220 established for, what their charter's about. It says, though established by free will Baptists,

00:24:37.620 Hillsdale has been officially non-denominational since its inception. It was the first American

00:24:42.200 college to prohibit in its charter any discrimination based on race, religion, or sex,

00:24:47.060 and became an early force for the abolition of slavery. It was also the second college in the

00:24:51.460 nation to grant four-year liberal arts degrees to women. So it's talking a little bit here about

00:24:55.640 its history in the late 19th century and sort of what they, and just, you know, a little context

00:25:00.940 here. So the free will Baptist, that's a sort of a sub-denomination under the general Baptist. So

00:25:05.260 these are going to be the non-Calvinistic Baptists. And actually, as far as Christian 0.84

00:25:10.140 nations go, they were actually pretty politically active. They were some of the biggest proponents

00:25:16.520 of abolition, as this states here. And of course, they had all sorts of things to say about what

00:25:22.280 our nation should be and stood specifically on scripture to make that case. So clearly in their

00:25:28.200 one takeaway, I think here is clearly in their founding, they believed that they could enact

00:25:32.680 a Christian nation. In other words, people were coming here, they were going to educate them

00:25:36.180 and indoctrinate them into going out into the world for the faith. So that's profound. I was

00:25:43.740 going to say 56 years later so 1844 they're founded 1900 it depends what census you take

00:25:49.540 but it's between about 85 to 97 percent of americans professed christianity so what in the

00:25:55.800 world do you call a nation that it's like 90 plus of this nation now i'm not saying every single one

00:26:02.040 of those individuals were regenerate but 90 plus what religion are you there's not like well i'm

00:26:06.860 kind of agnostic we'll see how it works out i'm an atheist 90 are saying christian i mean you have

00:26:12.200 Times Square. You have the Empire State Building lit up with the Christian cross on New Year's.

00:26:16.980 You have blasphemy laws, and it's blasphemy against any God, right? No, the Lord Jesus Christ. 0.87

00:26:22.200 So in our laws, the Christian faith. In our culture, the Christian faith. In people's

00:26:26.140 confession, the Christian faith. My goodness, what do you call that kind of nation?

00:26:30.880 Well, it's just a nation. And what's its character? What are some of the things it likes?

00:26:35.060 It has, well, we did have Memorial Day at the time. We have apple pie. We have a declaration.

00:26:40.340 like, and what would be a description of its religion?

00:26:44.000 Oh, a Christian religion.

00:26:45.180 And Hillsdale existed during this time. 0.87

00:26:46.520 It existed for 50 years. 0.88

00:26:47.880 So it's not just scripturally ignorant, 0.99

00:26:50.720 but it's also profoundly ignorant 0.93

00:26:52.400 of what God has done in the past

00:26:54.080 here in the United States most recently

00:26:55.860 and most relevant to Hillsdale,

00:26:57.680 but also what he did all across the West,

00:26:59.800 all through the Middle Ages

00:27:00.820 that were overwhelmingly Christian.

00:27:03.180 And when you describe them,

00:27:04.260 like same thing with a Christian family. 1.00

00:27:05.820 If you have 15 children, heaven forbid, 0.92

00:27:07.620 one of them apostatizes,

00:27:08.840 you would still call yourself a Christian family.

00:27:11.300 Our family, the majority of it, goes to church.

00:27:14.240 Our family, the majority of it, confesses the Christian faith.

00:27:17.380 Our family, its home is adorned with verses.

00:27:20.780 It's praise before meals.

00:27:22.420 It is a Christian family, recognizing, hey, there's a child that did apostatize.

00:27:28.040 But its whole nature, the people that make it up, it's Christian. 0.96

00:27:31.840 So it's a profound ignorance from, again, a guy who should know better. 1.00

00:27:35.800 right kevin de young and the president of a christian college right yeah at minimum to know

00:27:42.040 about your own college's history and sort of what at the end of the day there is a telos for

00:27:47.280 education it's not simply just to know it's it's to do something with it and to um go out into the

00:27:52.900 world and of course that that is the good nations have a telos like that possibly yeah yeah well i

00:27:58.900 mean certainly liberal colleges understand that right right they they understand what it looks

00:28:02.900 like to tell people to go and be something in the world. So it's a little discouraging. But

00:28:08.220 the other thing I want to note on top of just the sort of complete lapse in their understanding of

00:28:14.060 their own sort of charter and purpose as a college is the fact that it's clearly, I mean,

00:28:21.260 obviously pre-post-war consensus, but clearly there's something going on here. As you can see,

00:28:25.840 this is a liberal articulation of the faith and putting Baptists to shame were hardest hit over

00:28:32.020 here. But yeah, I mean, the articulation about putting women in college and discrimination and

00:28:37.860 so on and so forth, I mean, this is stuff that's, you know, obviously it's coded now in the post

00:28:43.740 Civil Rights Act language. But the appeal there, I think, is what's more telling, is that they're

00:28:48.640 appealing to that sort of language to talk about and more or less to brag about what they are and

00:28:54.560 what they are, you know, are proponents of. So clearly to see the chasm here, right? You see

00:29:00.300 the chasm, I think, theologically. You see the chasm politically in terms of what Hillsdale is,

00:29:05.720 what their aim is. Now, all of that said, all of that said, I want to be charitable where I can

00:29:11.660 be charitable and say Hillsdale, as it relates to being a liberal arts college, reviving the

00:29:16.580 classics, trying to bring back a knowledge of Plato and Aristotle and church history and those

00:29:24.100 sorts of things. I mean, they're doing on the scoreboard, they're doing better than the average

00:29:28.440 college right so so we have to give them credit there um in saying that uh you know these things

00:29:34.840 are important we should be teaching these things and that podcast set let's be honest pretty good

00:29:40.440 phenomenal great aesthetics the marketing they do a really good job right so but i mean all that said

00:29:45.880 you still have to recognize that it's not far enough like you have to at the when you interpret

00:29:50.420 uh sort of movements right or you interpret uh sort of the the growth of an institution you do

00:29:57.260 have to recognize uh you know what where there are differences right where it's just like hey

00:30:03.940 we just don't have the same vision ultimately but i i think wes you you hit the nail on the head with

00:30:08.560 with the point about um yeah they're just they're simply uh not you know not on our team so to speak

00:30:16.680 in the sense of like wanting a christian nation and they've admitted as much now right i think

00:30:21.100 that's really good let's go ahead and go to our first commercial break and then we're going to

00:30:24.760 come back and we're going to talk about uh catholics and protestants where we can unite

00:30:29.500 uh where we can't spoil alert uh theology right in the realm of the church a catholic cannot be

00:30:36.680 an elder in my church he cannot be a deacon in my church and uh he's going to have to renounce

00:30:42.600 some particular doctrines to even be a member in my church and that's not me being rude or

00:30:48.120 disrespectful or anything like that that that would be vice versa absolutely uh dr taylor marshall

00:30:53.820 He came on the show this last Wednesday.

00:30:55.800 If he was on the show again today, he'd say, yeah, Joel, it's great that you are pretending to be a pastor.

00:31:02.920 God bless you.

00:31:04.040 But no, you could not be a priest in the Catholic Church.

00:31:07.400 You would not be a deacon in the Catholic Church.

00:31:09.400 You would not be a member in the Catholic Church.

00:31:11.500 You would have to embrace certain doctrines.

00:31:13.480 And so in the church, yeah, in the church, there are substantial differences.

00:31:18.100 and for us to debate those differences with charity and respect, but also conviction and

00:31:24.060 courage absolutely has to be done. That said, to say this guy's a Catholic and so we can't even

00:31:30.520 talk to him, we can't even have him on a podcast, we can't partner with this Catholic against Islam, 0.69

00:31:38.640 against Judaism, against secular humanism, against abortion, against LGBT, LMNOP, mafia, 1.00

00:31:45.840 you know transgenderism this that and the other that's uh that is foolish absolutely foolish and 0.99

00:31:51.480 so yes uh we are willing to be co-belligerents i think there are different categories right there 0.99

00:31:56.900 are different categories of um you know we are brothers in the same church in the same church

00:32:03.140 and then there are uh we're friends right brothers friends and then there's co-belligerents um to say

00:32:10.440 that you can't even be co-belligerents with a Catholic as a Protestant in the realm of politics 0.99

00:32:16.420 and the realm of culture is absolutely foolish. I do not believe that that would be the position 0.97

00:32:23.860 of Calvin or Luther. Calvin and Luther were fighting the fiercest threat of their day

00:32:30.440 in a world that was saturated with Christendom that was Catholic. That was what was going on. 1.00

00:32:38.680 uh calvin and luther uh geneva was not over geneva did not have 90 foot statues uh to uh to uh

00:32:48.000 hindu gods the hindu gods right right geneva was not overrun with muslims geneva was i mean

00:32:55.600 geneva did not have drag queen story out and and if it did if it did calvin would be writing

00:33:02.900 volumes against it. Well, Calvin seemed to be more concerned about Catholicism than

00:33:07.800 all the gay lesbian stuff. The gay lesbian stuff was not happening. When it happened, 1.00

00:33:17.920 it happened as a fringe, as a misnomer. That was not prevalent. Geneva was not run by gay race

00:33:28.200 communism. And to think that it was is foolish. And if it was, then you would have seen a lot of 1.00

00:33:34.920 different writing from John Calvin. He would have said, yeah, the Pope this and the Pope that,

00:33:39.580 and I stand by this and I stand by that. But also let's talk about these fags. That would 1.00

00:33:46.040 have been part of the discourse as well. All right. So let's go to our first commercial break

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00:37:31.040 shipping on orders above $99 for the U.S. only. All right, we're back. We're going to talk about

00:37:38.880 Catholics and Protestants, where we can partner, where we cannot partner. But we're also going to

00:37:43.820 talk about what we see as two potential pitfalls for both, respectively. Protestants, Zionism. 0.97

00:37:50.320 We're seeing that loud and proud. Oh my goodness, there are multiple times that I feel a little bit 0.92

00:37:55.660 embarrassed. Feel a little bit embarrassed. Protestants are just hook line and sinker

00:38:01.420 shilling for Israel like it's nobody's business. There is a propensity among Protestants. I don't 0.62

00:38:07.520 think it's unique to Protestantism, but there is a propensity among Protestants, the people, 0.83

00:38:14.000 to be Zionist shills. So Zionism is to Protestantism what I believe globalism has a potential 0.80

00:38:21.160 to be to Catholicism. And so I do want to talk about that. We've got a lot of new Catholics 0.54

00:38:25.580 who've been joining the show. We are grateful that you're here. We want to be able to partner

00:38:30.180 on politics, partner on culture, but I want to at least submit something. I'm going to do it

00:38:34.700 charitably and respectfully, but I want to submit something to you for your consideration. At least

00:38:39.360 hear me out, right? Let me cook for a moment. Hear me out. Here's a clip from Wednesday. If you

00:38:44.820 missed the full length conversation, it was fantastic conversation. Dr. Taylor Marshall

00:38:49.460 was very respectful um i mean he did uh send out a tweet roasting john calvin like two hours before

00:38:55.760 the show i messaged him privately i was like really like right now you had to do that right

00:39:00.440 now you're about to come on a reform podcast and you're like you know what i should do two hours

00:39:04.640 before uh i should hate on john calvin so uh the timing wasn't great with that but um he took it

00:39:10.840 in stride you know we put we poked at him a little bit he poked at us uh but it was a charitable

00:39:14.980 conversation, some disagreement, some agreement. So I encourage, I humbly submit to you the full

00:39:21.780 conversation. So if you go back to Wednesday, check it out. That's us and Dr. Taylor Marshall.

00:39:28.120 I think you'll enjoy that. But I want, for those of you who have not had an opportunity to see the

00:39:33.840 full conversation, there was one clip towards the end of the conversation that I think is telling.

00:39:38.980 And I think it gets to some of the crux of the issue of some of the political and cultural

00:39:43.320 pitfalls with Protestantism, but also Catholicism. So I'm going to show this clip. I'm going to read

00:39:49.760 a little bit from the Pope, our new recently appointed Pope, and then we're going to flesh 0.88

00:39:56.500 out what we see as a potential pitfall that you need to be aware of as a Catholic. So here's a 0.82

00:40:02.560 clip from Dr. Taylor Marshall and myself. Our founders, they told us who they were doing it for,

00:40:09.040 for us and our posterity. They weren't doing it for India. And I hope that India is blessed by God 1.00

00:40:14.620 and repents of worshiping false gods, becomes Christian, and thrives. I don't hate India. I

00:40:21.420 don't hate brown people, black people, red and yellow, black and white. They are precious in

00:40:26.600 his sight. Yes and amen. But I don't want to lose America. I don't want to lose my people.

00:40:32.320 and and i've sometimes worry that uh that catholics like a guy like like you taylor that

00:40:39.820 you i know you love our country and i've seen you the reason i wanted to have you on the show

00:40:44.600 is i disagree with you on catholicism but i've watched your your political takes your cultural

00:40:49.840 takes and i'm like well goodness gracious like because i'm looking at the protestants who agree

00:40:54.440 with me on soteriology and some of these things but they oh my goodness like if if people listen

00:41:00.020 to their politics we're done you know so so i so i'm like looking at you and i'm like all right i

00:41:04.580 i'm gonna have to reach across the aisle here and and play nice and be and be respectful and i want

00:41:09.960 to be respectful regardless but like you're saying good things but i do get scared that even a guy

00:41:15.940 like you um who who seems to love america um who who looks like a heritage american um that that

00:41:26.620 your catholicism that tail might wag the dog on the in terms of national allegiance versus

00:41:33.180 religious allegiance and that you might you know be like hey you know what um open the floodgates

00:41:40.740 and boom we got our catholic america but we we lost our our ethnic america in the process

00:41:48.380 and I think that matters. I think it matters too. I'm a Catholic and I'm against immigration.

00:41:58.400 So even if you said, man, all these Catholics coming over the border, they go to mass every 0.89

00:42:02.980 Sunday, et cetera, and you have illegal unbridled immigration, there is a net negative. There's a

00:42:10.920 problem there. But at the same time, when you're looking at priorities and political priorities,

00:42:17.640 i talked to my catholic friends in europe and they're like man you should see paris right now 1.00

00:42:22.860 this is getting crazy you know and you go to go in rome and you see you know more and more gypsies 1.00

00:42:28.400 and you see more and more indians and they're saying man we're just being overtaken i at least 0.99

00:42:32.780 you know over here in texas i say well at least ours are catholic you know what i mean like

00:42:38.200 i know you're saying like well i could tell but i'm like man we're blessed you know our illegal 0.97

00:42:43.580 aliens you know they're committing crime and there's all these gangs and all that but a lot 0.98

00:42:47.480 of them at least are going to mass on sunday it's not like muslims you know bowing down in the 0.96

00:42:52.080 streets of downtown paris for their five you know times of prayer per day so yeah i am a little bit 0.72

00:42:58.500 more softened on that as a texan i'm against you know illegal immigration but i also understand

00:43:04.760 there is the idea of a, a cultural, of a familial identity of American. Obviously I'm not a wasp,

00:43:15.720 but you know, part of the, the, the cool thing about Catholic history and tradition is

00:43:22.220 the Pope never said, I want Germans to be French and French to be German. And I want French people

00:43:28.280 to move over here and German people to move over here. And I want the Belgians to start, you know, 1.00

00:43:33.220 going over the channel and living in england and i want belgian people to start eating english food

00:43:38.860 and speaking english there was always the idea that each one of these nations is christian they're

00:43:46.200 baptized they go to church on sunday they have their own archbishops their own bishoprics which

00:43:51.720 by the way are geographical this is a very important thing in catholicism our structure

00:43:56.800 our hierarchy is built on the diocese and the parish so it's very geographical there was never

00:44:03.560 the idea that it all had to be mixed up into one generic soup and that's actually really beautiful

00:44:10.200 and something that we should try to attain now that we have airplanes and boats and all that

00:44:15.700 it's going to be a lot more difficult moving forward and as a catholic and i think you would

00:44:21.780 agree with this as well. My faith trumps my citizenship. Like I would always go with faith

00:44:28.140 over citizenship. Right. Um, so yeah. So when I look at the immigrants, I'm like, at least our

00:44:36.100 immigrants come from at least three to 500 years of a Christian culture. They believe in the 10

00:44:45.200 commandments. They may not act on it. They may be criminals, but at least they're coming from

00:44:49.260 something that is spanish christianity which is way better than a somalian you know 0.93

00:44:55.340 all right let's deal with this so yeah uh spanish christianity spanish catholicism to be more

00:45:03.780 particular better than somalian uh yeah i agree uh but it's still not american um i want a christian

00:45:10.300 america absolutely but i want it to still be america i want it to actually be america if we're

00:45:16.260 not careful this becomes the same thing that we saw with vivek and elon right where uh well

00:45:21.820 america first just means america as the sports team and it doesn't matter how many players we

00:45:27.200 have to trade out if we have to import on h1b visas you know a hundred million you know indians 0.94

00:45:33.600 to come in and you know say oh i like apple pie uh you know uh so long as they can code 0.90

00:45:40.660 better than you know some of the white guys uh so that we can be america first meaning america

00:45:45.440 winning the race for artificial intelligence and beating other countries on the GDP must go up,

00:45:52.700 America beating China, then that's America first. No, it's not. America first is Americans first.

00:45:59.860 Americans first. And that's not Spanish Catholics. And so when he said, for instance, 1.00

00:46:05.160 and I want to be charitable because I really appreciated him on this conversation. He did a

00:46:09.600 great job and we'd love to have him as a guest again. And there's a lot of political and cultural

00:46:13.580 things that we can align on um and and we can be co-belliterants with but this is one that that i

00:46:19.160 do have some sharp disagreement um you notice that uh dr marshall said um you know he said

00:46:26.280 obviously i'm not a wasp emphasis on wasp the p right he's saying i'm not protestant but he's

00:46:35.740 just recognizing wasp white anglo-saxon protestant that's what that stands for white anglo-saxon

00:46:41.120 Protestant. And this is the bedrock of the founding of this nation. It is. And nobody can 0.77

00:46:46.300 contest that. And if that's completely done away with, then you still have a country, but it's not

00:46:53.000 America. Not in any discernible historical heritage sort of way. You have lost America's

00:47:01.260 heritage. If we have a Catholic America, that's a different America, right? And if we have a 0.99

00:47:08.780 spanish america right so if it's you know if it's uh not instead of wasp you replace the p with c

00:47:15.820 right and it's catholic now well it that's a different america if you replace the anglo-saxon

00:47:21.600 with you know spanish even other european latin or whatever so we're not even saying like india

00:47:28.080 comes in well then it's you know it's india protestant yes even other european that said

00:47:33.340 that said it is a sliding scale yep so you replace the anglo-saxons with uh more germans

00:47:40.100 and italians um you've lost something right you've changed something you replace them with

00:47:45.140 haitians and you've really lost something right that's just a bigger change that is a much more

00:47:51.780 stark change we have to be able to say that of course that is um a radically different america 0.57

00:47:57.820 And what you hear Taylor Marshall saying is, well, you know, I'm at least, you know, pleasantly surprised and happy to see that, you know, a lot of the immigrants coming in are, you know, Spanish Catholics instead of Somalians.

00:48:16.880 and then he even said for a moment there he said um you know and and a lot of them are you know 0.82

00:48:22.640 criminals they're committing crimes but at least they're in mass on sunday um you know mass shootings

00:48:30.200 on monday but in mass on your family got decapitated by a terrible driver but but he was in

00:48:36.560 mass that dude took the eucharist you know god bless him how does my family back oh and here's

00:48:42.140 my point um i don't think that this is an aberration um i i don't think that this is um just

00:48:49.740 a one-off you know isolated i actually think that this is consistently catholic right so let's let's

00:48:56.560 look at a couple things from the pope let's start off start off with one of the it's been called one

00:49:01.380 of the most popular most well-known papal bulls and that would be unum sanctum we've talked about

00:49:05.540 it on the show we've gone through the actual wording of it but one of the things that the

00:49:09.060 bull says. You guys have to get this because a big part of Catholicism, if it's Christian

00:49:13.020 nationalism on the Protestant side of things, nationalism and Christian, then the Catholic

00:49:17.260 side would be integralism. And so you would have actually the integration of church and state.

00:49:21.140 And in this papal bull from 1302, Boniface VIII, it explicitly states that the church is actually

00:49:27.840 over the state as far as temporal matters. That the final judge of whether something is good or

00:49:33.180 something is bad, not just on doctrine, it actually is the church. The church as a spiritual institution

00:49:38.500 has an authority over the temporal so if you think maybe the classical two kingdoms in that realm

00:49:44.000 it's not a one over the other but they're parallel distinguish they run they run alongside each other

00:49:49.500 both both the sacred and the common running alongside one another um distinct but not a

00:49:55.300 hierarchy exactly and there's domains where like the natural realm the king has authority for

00:50:00.500 example to say a tsunami is coming church is canceled right he doesn't give out the sacraments

00:50:05.420 because those have been given to the ministers under shepherds under christ which is why the head

00:50:10.920 of the redemptive we've got to get this right it the technicalities matter the problem with covid

00:50:16.060 was not that the civil magistrate can't cancel church for a natural disaster or an emergency

00:50:22.940 the problem with covid is that he kept canceling church not one week but months and months again

00:50:29.080 and again and again and there was no disaster right that was the problem if it was the spanish

00:50:34.220 flu where people could die in as little as four hours. I think you could say, except for ministers

00:50:39.360 going to the beds of the sick, church will be canceled for a couple of weeks. Now, years on end

00:50:45.200 in the country where like there's three people that never interact with the town. No, but

00:50:49.520 practically in the common kingdom for the temporal things, for the natural ends, for the well-being,

00:50:54.740 for ordering people towards the spiritual kingdom and heavenly life, there's a unique authority.

00:50:59.860 then the same thing with the spiritual kingdom it has real authority ministers have the keys to the

00:51:04.880 kingdom they have the the power to give out and administer the sacraments right so we as protestants

00:51:11.220 distinguish if you're two kingdom then if you're theonomic there's other ways these interact yeah

00:51:15.180 you can distinguish like you know the kyperian spheres you know if you're more theonomic you

00:51:19.900 know or you can distinguish by the two kingdoms if you're more of a tomist but but what wesley's

00:51:25.520 Catholic doctrine. One is over the other. And here's the thing, because that's one of the

00:51:29.620 false charges that a lot of the Protestant Christian nationalists keep receiving again

00:51:34.080 and again from Protestants, from Reformed ministers who should know better, and they

00:51:38.660 say, look, this is just integralism. The integration of church and state with the church running the

00:51:45.420 state. They're going to do the same thing that Catholics have historically done, where 0.62

00:51:50.560 where the pope is over the king, where all of a sudden it's not a theocracy, it's an ecclesiocracy,

00:51:58.000 where all of a sudden it's a church-run state. We want a theocracy. Christ is king, and he's not

00:52:04.520 just king of the church, but he's actually king of the state as well. Ephesians, I believe it's

00:52:08.800 chapter 1, verse 20 or verse 21, that says, and God has appointed him, that being Christ,

00:52:15.420 as head over all things to the church.

00:52:19.540 What that means is not just Christ is head of the church.

00:52:21.660 Of course he's head of the church.

00:52:23.080 And Christ, we would argue, is exclusively head of the church in a unique way,

00:52:27.500 in the sense that Christ exclusively gave his life up for the church.

00:52:32.280 But Christ is not head of the church in terms of his authority only.

00:52:38.160 The Bible says, Ephesians chapter 1,

00:52:40.520 that god has appointed him as head of all things to the benefit of the church so christ is uniquely

00:52:47.620 head of the church right he actually dies for the church washes her by his blood he doesn't do that

00:52:53.780 for any other human institution he doesn't do that for the state for the common kingdom he doesn't

00:52:58.020 even do it for the family he does that for the church and even if you're covenantal right so i'm

00:53:04.180 not even i'm not picking on on guys who you know with pedo-baptism i i understand the arguments it

00:53:09.820 makes sense to me. But the point is, even for those guys, they still have a category for

00:53:15.500 apostasy, for trampling the blood of the covenant underfoot. So they still acknowledge, and for 0.87

00:53:21.460 those who are Calvinist, whether you're Presbyterian or Anglican, Presbyterian, but those

00:53:28.720 guys, some Anglicans, those guys would still argue. They would say, yeah, a covenant child who has

00:53:34.520 been baptized as an infant can commit apostasy. And what that will ultimately prove is not that

00:53:40.760 Jesus died for him and that he walked away, but that Jesus actually never died for him at all.

00:53:45.760 He trampled the blood of the covenant underfoot because he despised his birthright, because it

00:53:50.300 really, in the decretal sense, never belonged to him. He was not among the decretal elect. He was 0.97

00:53:55.980 in the new covenant, but not elect. And so they would acknowledge that Christ did not die for

00:54:02.940 the family for the entire family but actually only died for those members of the family who

00:54:07.880 are not only members of the the new covenant but uh members of the decretal elect and so whether

00:54:13.680 it's the visible versus the invisible exactly so whether it's the family or whether it's the state

00:54:18.560 or whether it's the market or whether it's any of these other human realms christ is uniquely

00:54:23.500 not exclusively he's head of all things in terms of his authority as headship but he is you uh

00:54:30.200 uniquely head of the church in the sense that the church is the entity for which the invisible

00:54:37.140 universal Catholic, lowercase c, Catholic church, for which he died, for which he purifies, for

00:54:43.420 which he sanctifies, for which he saves. And so Christ is uniquely head of the church, but he is

00:54:49.080 not exclusively head of the church. He is rather exhaustively appointed as head of all things. So

00:54:54.780 that being said, that means Christ is head of the state, which means above the minister,

00:55:00.380 there is Christ in the realm of the church. Above the Christian prince, there is Christ

00:55:06.540 above the magistrate. And so you do want a theocracy, God above the state. You do not want 0.92

00:55:12.420 an ecclesiocracy necessarily, that being the church above the state. And Protestantism allows 0.94

00:55:19.280 for a a theocracy politically speaking in terms of the state uh where where this the state is

00:55:25.900 separate from the church but it's not separate from christ and so the state is distinctly christian

00:55:31.120 where you adopt the nicene creed or the apostles creed as a preamble to the constitution where you

00:55:36.060 have the ten commandments plastered everywhere and you legislate them as law um you can have that

00:55:42.220 um within protestantism a theocracy without it being ecclesiocracy and without it being

00:55:48.240 integralism within catholicism though it is integralism and and so because of that there

00:55:54.700 is a blurring of the kingdoms there's a blurring of the natural kingdom from the heavenly one

00:55:59.400 from the kingdom of grace and those things which are sacred and the kingdom of those things which

00:56:05.000 are common which means that they're not two kingdoms running alongside each other parallel

00:56:10.940 with different spheres and and different jurisdictions but instead it is a hierarchy

00:56:17.140 and the kingdom of grace and therefore the clergy actually at the end of the day stands above the

00:56:23.520 magistrate which means that the pope can then give papal orders and now we're going to get back on

00:56:28.200 track that actually insist upon losing national political distinctions and that's one of my fears

00:56:36.380 when it comes to catholicism i have my grievances theologically but now speaking politically one of

00:56:42.580 my concerns for the political vision of consistent Catholics. So a lot of you would disagree with

00:56:48.660 this. Praise God, you're inconsistent Catholics. And many such cases, many such cases. And I thank 1.00

00:56:55.360 God and praise God for you. There are many Catholics that listen to this show that say,

00:56:59.220 no, I want America to be Catholic, but I also want America to be America. I don't want it to 0.71

00:57:04.220 be a bunch of Spanish Catholics and every person of European descent is replaced. That would be 1.00

00:57:11.380 catholic but it wouldn't be america and i don't want that as a catholic you're awesome praise

00:57:16.560 god i appreciate you um but what i want you to see though is that catholics i think many catholics

00:57:24.200 want america in its nationality to remain distinct catholicism though not talking about the people

00:57:31.100 but now the positions i think that catholicism has has a consistent implication to globalism

00:57:38.860 in a way that Protestantism, so Protestants, the people, they're a bunch of Zionists.

00:57:45.720 But Protestantism actually does not lend towards Zionism. That's an inconsistency on the part of

00:57:52.320 Protestants. Whereas Catholics, many of them are not globalists. They love America. They want

00:57:58.600 America to remain in its national distinction. But Catholicism, right, not the people, but the

00:58:05.220 position in consistency, it does allow for globalism in a way that Protestantism does not.

00:58:11.280 Let's look at the papal bull, and then let's look at some quotes from our recently appointed Pope.

00:58:15.960 Right. And so the point is exactly that, putting the church over the natural,

00:58:19.520 it can result in some strange readings, especially, and I'll say this before we get to it,

00:58:23.920 we're in a different world than we were in 1302, for example, when that papal bull came out.

00:58:29.260 It's one thing, I think of a video game, you haven't unlocked certain areas of the map.

00:58:33.380 lest we forget most of the east and most certainly africa as far as below the saharan desert

00:58:39.640 we hadn't unlocked that area yet right so there was a thousand years of christendom

00:58:43.800 where questions of refugees and migrants and those immigrating sometimes these are literally

00:58:48.660 people speaking the same language they're crossing 25 miles they're for sure from the

00:58:52.840 same cultural milieu but now in 2025 in the year of our lord with boats and planes we have three

00:58:59.680 billion people in the third world and all of them would love to come here. That's right. That did

00:59:04.980 not exist. Right. And so it's perfectly applicable to say hey there was a time when this actually

00:59:09.240 it wouldn't have lended towards destruction. We're talking about intra-Europe type of immigration 0.96

00:59:14.160 back and forth passing through. Hey you remember a Catholic church you simply transferred and even

00:59:19.000 then it did have some disruptions. There was times during the Reformation where men would flee

00:59:22.780 and they'd take up all the jobs from the other Christian men in the city that they came to. 0.90

00:59:26.880 so even then it had its problems but the problems today with again three billion people who would do

00:59:33.200 anything and say anything i've heard of americans that live down there children will bang down their

00:59:38.500 doors begging them to learn english and i don't doubt that they would be good students they would

00:59:42.840 learn english that's their way out so you have three billion people that says i will say anything

00:59:46.760 i will learn anything i will do anything i will work any job just get me to the first world and

00:59:52.140 In that framework, let's go ahead and read the message from the newly appointed Pope,

00:59:56.660 newly chosen Pope. This is from just in July. It's a message relating to the 111th day of,

01:00:03.400 I'm going to change this for the title, 111th World Day of Migrants and Refugees, which comes in

01:00:08.120 October. The Pope, so Pope Leo XIV, he said this,

01:00:13.640 The communities that welcome migrants and refugees could be a living witness of a society where the

01:00:19.380 dignity of all as children of God is recognized and in which all are brothers and sisters part of 1.00

01:00:25.060 the same family don't love it don't love it and Tony we said a lot yeah well I would I would just

01:00:30.640 say and I think particularly in that context of this tweet from Pope Leo here about uh the ways

01:00:35.840 that the and one thing I appreciate about Stephen Wolf one of many things is the way that he

01:00:41.280 articulates the common kingdom here in America and the expression um as a republic and the way that

01:00:47.240 you know papal even it doesn't even need to be a decree it could simply just be a tweet like that

01:00:53.280 that influences because you have to remember in a republic it's it's the people the people have

01:00:57.760 a moral imperative to direct the government and so you know early on in the in our republic you

01:01:04.980 know founders into the 19th century you know political leaders would talk about this this

01:01:10.220 concept of dual allegiance and simply in in in the way of like where are we being where are we

01:01:16.680 influenced. So you talk, you can think of George Washington's farewell address. He talks about

01:01:20.740 importing foreign, um, foreign grievances or importing sort of foreign wars or whatever the

01:01:27.040 case would be. And that sort of being a challenge. Well, similarly, um, as a Catholic in the early

01:01:31.460 Republic, if you're, if you're listening, you have an ear to the Pope as you should, if you're a good

01:01:35.980 Catholic, you are importing messages that aren't germane to the Republic. And so that's the concern

01:01:42.200 you have here, not just sort of theologically and conceptually, but also simply just thinking

01:01:48.000 about America, the way that our government functions is when, if I'm a Catholic and I

01:01:53.060 see the Pope say something like that, that holds weight. And there can be a concern about how much

01:01:59.440 weight that holds, how that swings my vote, how I express myself politically in my own nation.

01:02:06.020 That's a great point. Catholicism, you have to remember, you know, the adjective that comes

01:02:10.980 before Roman Catholicism. Catholicism has a geographic global locale. It has an HQ. It has

01:02:19.360 a headquarters, a central location, whereas Protestantism does not. You can have 0.99

01:02:27.840 an Anglican Great Britain, and you could have conceivably a Presbyterian, for instance,

01:02:37.360 united states um you can have you you can have um distinct nations that are protestant in a way

01:02:47.220 that you're not able with catholicism there is a blurring of the lines it's um well we we all have

01:02:54.700 a global head that we report to um and that global head and there's also the the integralism piece

01:03:02.340 that global head at times will either blatantly or seemingly blur sacred and common kingdoms

01:03:11.900 together to where now upon the civil magistrates right you have the pope speaking from rome and

01:03:19.620 the civil magistrate now in timbuktu feels an obligation to let in x many millions of you know

01:03:28.500 people from the third world so long as they're catholic catholic uh aid societies have been huge

01:03:33.780 for resettling immigrants in the united states yes practically speaking yep so protestants like

01:03:38.340 i said design is protestants uh have been huge uh for supporting israel and you know great big

01:03:47.140 l right there let's let's be honest um for uh not all we're not among them but for a lot of

01:03:53.260 protestants uh there has not been a war that they have not liked in the middle east for the last

01:04:00.200 few decades right it's like whoa like we've got you know our greatest ally needs our help

01:04:06.100 you know right let's let's send send a check send a son send a daughter you know to go and 0.85

01:04:12.340 bleed out for israel so to be fair we killed our own too a lot world war one world war two even the 0.93

01:04:16.760 civil war we protestants for the most part lord knows catholics had their bloody heirs too but 0.97

01:04:21.360 we for sure said, well, we'll go to the marching field and slaughter, literally millions of our 0.90

01:04:25.660 own. Yes. And recently it seems like we are more than eager to do that on behalf of Israel. And so

01:04:33.700 we're trying to point out errors on both sides. Protestantism, I think that you got to be careful

01:04:42.780 about Zionism. Now, I don't think that's unique. I don't think it consistently follows from the 0.95

01:04:47.060 position of protestantism but protestants i think often are zionist whereas catholics

01:04:52.720 there are not as you know that that's not as as um as as innate to catholicism this constant

01:05:01.340 shilling for israel so so catholics i think by and large do not struggle with that problem to

01:05:06.700 the same degree that protestants do on uh on the zionist issue um but catholicism i think that

01:05:14.800 there are many Catholics resisting globalism. But Catholicism as a position, I think it leaves

01:05:24.780 the left flank vulnerable to globalism. Let's continue reading from this message 0.98

01:05:31.740 from, again, Pope Leo XIV for the 111th World Day of Migrants and Refugees. This is from the

01:05:37.360 actual statement itself, a longer message, and he says this, in a special way, Catholic migrants

01:05:41.900 and refugees, so they're Catholic, they're migrants, they're refugees, they're Catholic,

01:05:46.540 can become missionaries of hope in the countries that welcome them, forging new paths of faith

01:05:51.100 where the message of Jesus Christ has not yet arrived, or initiating inner religious dialogue

01:05:55.780 based on everyday life and the search for common values. With their spiritual enthusiasm and

01:06:00.760 vitality, they can help revitalize ecclesial communities that have become rigid or weighed

01:06:05.500 down, where spiritual desertification is advancing at an alarming rate. Their presence then should be

01:06:10.920 recognized and appreciated as a true divine blessing an opportunity to open oneself to the

01:06:17.180 grace of god who gives new energy and hope to his church does that sound familiar do you think am i

01:06:23.300 reading the world economic forum or no like i mean like how how applicable is that um how tempting

01:06:31.500 would it be if you're a catholic priest in america today to read that and think for such a time as

01:06:38.160 this right i mean look at it it's like places uh with their spiritual enthusiasm vitality they can

01:06:44.180 help revitalize ecclesial communities that have become rigid and weighed down where spiritual

01:06:49.500 desertion is advancing at an alarming rate right wouldn't we all protestant and catholic alike say

01:06:58.400 that about america about these united states specifically europe too it's even worse specific 1.00

01:07:02.140 yeah exactly well europe you've got all these empty churches you know and and uh the muslims 0.98

01:07:08.160 are coming in so so stop the muslims coming in nope uh why don't we counterbalance it by you 1.00

01:07:14.020 know we took in five million muslims so let's take in 15 million you know catholics from south 0.84

01:07:20.380 america and and you know even their presence the pope says should be recognized and appreciated as

01:07:26.460 a true divine blessing right so you better be enthusiastic and again we know guys they're young

01:07:31.860 men they're catholic they want to save america and europeans to distinguish and saying catholicism

01:07:36.640 versus catholics but they would look at this and we know and go oh yeah don't like that yeah so we

01:07:41.720 recognize we have a lot of young catholics that we're friends with um that they would be like 0.87

01:07:47.720 hate it hate it you know and god bless them god bless them right uh but but it's worth noting 0.90

01:07:55.900 that on paper catholicism right so we're not talking about the young you know based white

01:08:02.500 catholic you know who's uh you know following nick fuentes or something like that and he's

01:08:07.780 five days a week right we're not talking about uh that we're not talking about catholics we're

01:08:12.800 talking about catholicism and catholicism uh does leave the door quite literally the door of a

01:08:19.980 country wide open yep right well this country's uh struggling with spiritual desertion this our

01:08:26.100 country you know a lot less people are coming to church so um let's let's open it up and let's get

01:08:32.600 home don't be racist let them in don't be racist let them in honduras and mexico and cuba and this

01:08:40.460 and that and and what i'm saying is it haiti like 56 catholic yes well that's the thing is like so

01:08:46.980 when when taylor marshall said well you know uh spanish catholics is is uh different than

01:08:52.520 somalians okay but but you've just said that catholicism your religion trumps ethnicity

01:08:58.060 well religion in in eternal matters religion trumps ethnicity for us too of course right

01:09:04.180 of course our brothers in christ spiritual brothers in christ is uh on on the top of that

01:09:09.660 hierarchy. But for temporal and worldly affairs, just because someone is a Christian, even if

01:09:17.180 they're a Protestant Christian, doesn't mean they get to live in America. But what Taylor Marshall

01:09:22.720 seemed to be saying, and being as charitable as possible, is he seemed to be saying Somalians,

01:09:28.200 no, but Spanish Catholics, yes. I can't help but hear that and think that what he's saying is

01:09:33.460 the reason why no to Somalians is not just because they're Somalians, but more particularly

01:09:39.380 because they're muslim i think that was the implication there the muslim somalians no but

01:09:45.080 the catholic spanish yes okay well what about the catholic haitians over half the country of haiti

01:09:53.500 is catholic so you know and and they're the kinds of catholics that will go to mass 0.99

01:09:58.640 yeah and then they will also eat your dog they will go to mass and then eat a massive meal 0.86

01:10:05.160 of your pets of your pets yeah yeah what about that yeah and i think that i like to think about

01:10:10.340 in terms of sort of proclivities or downfalls right so we we recognize that in protestantism

01:10:15.480 zionism is a real challenge and for every one of joel there's three four or five designists

01:10:20.580 but i mean dr taylor marshall i think he also said something to the effect of i'm one of the

01:10:25.600 biggest critics of catholicism so even in that implicitly recognizing like i am yeah maybe i

01:10:31.300 don't agree with this entire message from pope leo like maybe i would tweak language here and there

01:10:35.060 but we look at the scorecard and it's like well for every one of you how many good you know pope

01:10:41.200 respecting catholics are there that take this message and to your point joel um act on it vote

01:10:46.200 on it so on and so forth so yeah so don't let your priest get away with it you're catholic you're

01:10:50.520 there you're committed you want to save the west hold the line don't let your priest get away with

01:10:54.180 it say hang on hang on this would destroy our nation please respectfully don't buy into it

01:11:00.520 Right. And then simply the challenge there, I think, becomes just the mechanism in Catholicism.

01:11:05.560 It's a lot more challenging, I think, just in it being hierarchical.

01:11:10.100 You're not going to necessarily win people on arguments or theological, biblical arguments

01:11:14.180 because you have the Pope saying something contra to the point you're making.

01:11:18.820 And so that's where I think in Protestantism, we have it a little bit easier 0.58

01:11:21.720 with respect to actually moving out of this trap of Zionism versus what Catholicism is facing.

01:11:29.860 so that's just also important to note i i do think that um protestants can consistently

01:11:34.440 protestants are zionist okay so like we want to be fair and point fingers at ourselves and and

01:11:41.580 you know at our friends across the aisle um protestants are zionist but this would be my

01:11:47.320 position in a nutshell um protestants are zionist but protestantism historic protestantism does not

01:11:54.400 necessitate zionism catholics many catholics are not globalist but catholicism if consistently

01:12:02.840 followed as it currently stands i think does lead towards the implication of globalism pope francis

01:12:09.860 for sure was a big push in immigration and all that so we're talking about like the last two

01:12:13.920 popes right 15 years right two popes i just a decade and a half running a decade and a half

01:12:19.580 fronting and so in a nutshell like my i would say that um i think protestants are being

01:12:24.160 inconsistently zionist i think some catholics are being consistently globalist and that's my

01:12:31.920 concern and i wanted to make it clear and also we just wanted to be able to respond to the interview

01:12:37.420 because it was a banger it was awesome so many good things that's just one part of it uh the

01:12:42.100 vast majority um we agreed uh you agreed on uh soteriology no we didn't talk about it we didn't

01:12:48.960 talk about soteriology we know we disagree we know we disagree um and if dr taylor marshall wants to

01:12:55.300 to take me out to a nice steak uh dinner and wine and dine me uh to talk about soteriology i am happy

01:13:01.680 to uh finish the steak first all right because i want to make sure i get the bill let him get the

01:13:07.340 bill and then start going over you know all my protestant talking points um i got to get the

01:13:14.300 steak dinner first and then hit him with some Luther quotes. But yeah, but that wasn't the

01:13:20.920 point of the interview. We didn't have him on to talk about soteriology. So yes, we had a lot of

01:13:24.700 agreement, political agreement. But this was one of the areas where outside of theology,

01:13:29.120 in the realm of politics, we disagreed. And we did some charitable pushback. And I just thought

01:13:36.360 it would be great, Monday morning quarterback, to go ahead and review the tape. All right,

01:13:42.020 so here we go few housekeeping items number one um we've got uh 1617 people streaming live right

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01:19:16.260 next step toward financial discipleship and multi-generational impact. All right, here we

01:19:28.920 go here we go okay super chat starting with bjj wins again bjj wins again he's been to our conference

01:19:35.640 he's come out and visited the church great brother awesome guy uh he gave us ten dollars we appreciate

01:19:40.980 that i'd like to see 20 next time we appreciate that bjj wins again you've been generous you've

01:19:46.480 been kind he prays for us great great guy uh he said just met a local methodist pastor he used to

01:19:52.600 be full rainbow woke uh read some john mccarthur and his delusions shattered and he became full

01:20:00.100 zionist woke oh no i'm just kidding no he said i read some john mccarthur his woke you know lgbt

01:20:06.300 mafia delusions were shattered praise god john mccarthur was stalwart on that issue his entire

01:20:11.860 life did a wonderful job uh he's now in regular communication to go a full crusader cn in our

01:20:19.420 town we are winning praise god man that's great that's an awesome story that's awesome and john

01:20:23.920 mccarthur is in glory praise god for his ministry we disagree on the leaky dispensationalism and

01:20:29.940 the affinity for jews but john mccarthur did a lot of good we're grateful okay uh next one

01:20:35.080 antonio you want to take it uh inevitable kerfuffle sent ten dollars thanks for that

01:20:39.200 and says dr taylor marshall posting that john calvin was only 26 when he published the summa

01:20:44.740 but i can't think or i can sorry think of another 26 year old making some historic waves maybe it's

01:20:50.860 time to start listening to young people again i have no idea that compliment i have no idea what

01:20:55.800 yeah he must be talking about you because you're 26 yeah uh the only other guy i could think of

01:21:00.820 is 27 right it's true that's true so i don't know john calvin generational run at 26 someone else

01:21:07.280 a generational run yeah somebody yeah there's a couple guys yeah of course antonio is definitely

01:21:12.140 on a generational run are you kidding me but i mean institute there are some episodes where

01:21:16.440 antonio gets like legitimately six or seven minutes of talk time six whole minutes whole minutes

01:21:21.660 but i mean john calvin the institutes at 26 like the picking point on him is not that he was 26

01:21:28.260 it's like my goodness and to be fair antonio you've said this he was revising them throughout

01:21:32.600 his life so yes the final version we have the institutes is not what he originally had but

01:21:36.480 i was not writing that at 26 no yeah john calvin was smarter at 26 than i'll be

01:21:42.120 you know if i lived to be you know 86 um so it here's the thing like we have a bible verse for

01:21:47.740 this like i'm not trying to be cliche but it's the word of god it matters do not let anyone despise

01:21:53.480 you for your youth right but rather set an example through this through that and calvin did that and

01:21:59.940 he's not the only one so it's not to say calvinists are the only ones who had young guys who

01:22:03.820 were you know high caliber and uh exemplary um no there have been young guys throughout all of

01:22:10.220 history um but but this idea of like well why don't you listen to me because i'm older um i'm

01:22:16.600 willing to hear any older man uh but hearing and then just by default agreeing are two different

01:22:24.520 things i will hear you and i will do my best to hear you respectfully but i'm allowed to disagree

01:22:30.080 um it i wish that we could say you know what every older man um has more wisdom and uh and

01:22:39.880 more giftedness than every younger man but that has never been the case and currently is also not

01:22:46.360 the case yeah so good comment we appreciate that all right uh antonio take the next one yeah just

01:22:52.420 justin jmz sent 50 all right that's great says keep up the good fight guys enjoy the show god

01:22:59.820 bless thank you for that very kind that's awesome all right wow this is a big one mondo super chat

01:23:06.820 five hundred dollars from kodiak uh kodiak joe three three six five nathan's yelling something

01:23:15.340 from the back what's up top guy he wants to be a top guy i think he's ready uh he said uh thank

01:23:22.220 you so much kodiak we really really really appreciate this uh he said when the church

01:23:26.880 tried to feminize christ i strayed into false paths but none were my god right response ministry's

01:23:35.040 bold preaching of king jesus stirred me to rise as a husband and father breaking my family's curse

01:23:42.240 of divorce at christ is king conference the conference that we just recently held i shook

01:23:47.640 hands with brothers and speakers from the ogden boys to oren mcintyre but he said nate that is

01:23:56.580 the uh is the true king behind the camera he misspelled joel i think he meant to say joel is

01:24:03.780 the true king in front of the camera so that's a typo we'll forgive it it's a 500 super chat after

01:24:09.740 all you know um no nate uh couldn't do it without nate we're super grateful for him um that was

01:24:15.220 great thank you we appreciate it cody west you want to take the next one all right efficient tip

01:24:20.460 ten dollar super chat i will be visiting your church in two weeks hope to meet you all there

01:24:25.040 christ is king awesome we will be there i will unfortunately be out of town helping my parents

01:24:29.740 they're actually moving to the area but no you'll be you'll be there you'll be there you'll miss your

01:24:33.760 flight west right it's you can go after it's the lord's day and wesley will be there uh or he will

01:24:38.920 be excommunicated immediately yeah immediately um okay next one antonio yeah um most mostly

01:24:45.940 peaceful merch merchandise yep sent four dollars and 99 cents and says christians have brought an

01:24:52.680 effeminate fire extinguisher to a flood for decades thank you for thinking in categories

01:24:57.540 and addressing real problems so true king um thank you we appreciate that yeah that's i that's a i

01:25:04.460 think an apt illustration uh we're not saying that fires don't exist and that fires don't require

01:25:11.700 fire extinguishers um but it just seems silly uh right now in the world that we currently live in

01:25:18.640 uh where you know at any moment we could go into world war three

01:25:23.360 uh at any moment um we could be uh there is a tipping point and and honestly we could have

01:25:31.220 already hit it it does not feel like we're getting mass deportations and we've taken millions tens

01:25:36.280 of millions of people they just uh posted stats uh that said uh 55 million with uh work visas

01:25:43.100 foreigners visa holders and another 50 million illegal aliens guys we're talking about a hundred

01:25:49.080 million a hundred million you're talking about a third of the country why do we have a housing

01:25:54.540 shortage for the record i'm interested in that question no seriously when you think about housing

01:25:57.940 it's like oh well like we got to get control of costs and like okay look crony capitalism is a

01:26:02.960 problem we've talked about that we'll talk about it more in the future but there's also a little

01:26:06.540 thing called supply and demand it's pretty basic like what do you do if a third of the houses in

01:26:12.960 your country are all of a sudden available housing goes down right like part of what has made houses 0.73

01:26:20.040 impossible to afford is that you have 30 indians on h1b visas two of them on h1b visas and then 0.99

01:26:27.880 28 of of other indians that come chain migration yep yep chain migration we need grandma we need 1.00

01:26:34.320 our great great aunt we need this person we need that person um and that you know and they'll 0.93

01:26:39.640 co-sign for each other to live in the same house so americans their boomer parents won't give them

01:26:44.520 money they won't co-sign for them so they're on their own they can't move into this home but it'll

01:26:48.700 be a 600 000 home and three families with three tech workers with inflated salaries they'll all

01:26:54.140 go co-sign onto it so they then live in a home that could have been for an american and then

01:26:58.340 half your neighborhood maybe they're all nice people half your neighborhood is people that 0.78

01:27:02.540 don't even speak english well how did this happen h1b worker visas them co-signing onto it

01:27:07.740 and all of a sudden boom now here's the solution here we are skyscrapers in topeka kansas

01:27:13.840 yeah so yeah taking a fire extinguisher to a flood is a bad idea um we reserve our disagreements

01:27:23.800 with rome in terms of theology in terms of soteriology and those disagreements are significant

01:27:30.700 and profound and we have talked about it before we will talk about it again however at the same

01:27:36.380 time to not realize that right now we are being flooded flooded flooding is a good term right

01:27:41.600 fire extinguisher when you're in the middle of a flood uh we have a flood of immigration and we 0.97

01:27:47.240 have a flood of islam and we have um a stranglehold of uh zionist control in these united states and 0.99

01:27:56.680 to not look at those things and recognize we have the tech right uh that wants to usher in um 0.98

01:28:04.000 essentially uh says well i'm not the antichrist but you're you're building the framework for

01:28:10.660 you know like that wants to usher in transhumanism uh we we have some massive massive cultural and

01:28:18.560 political problems and uh and we can't afford to shoot guys who are willing to say hey i'll fight

01:28:25.460 with you and the catholic thing i tell my catholic friends this there's going to come a point where

01:28:29.820 it probably comes to blows right now we're working together in these cultural things but i recognize

01:28:33.920 this is not an in perpetuity thing right so there will come a point we can be honest and say hey

01:28:37.580 there's going to have to come a point where we decide what america is and it it might be a little

01:28:42.160 rough yep that's we're not in in naively thinking just for all time in perpetuity we have this

01:28:48.400 strange arrangement where it's just like we have these cultural issues and this cultural thing and

01:28:52.200 we'll fight in that and we'll keep all of our discussion to it there comes a point to discuss

01:28:56.000 and revisit trent again that time is not right this moment yep i've said it several times i said

01:29:01.940 it over all the baptism debates for the last you know two years three years four years and i said

01:29:08.440 again and again you know reaching across the aisle with you know with guys who were protestant but

01:29:13.080 you know between credo and pedo and saying look um these kinds of debates matter uh but they are

01:29:19.720 the luxury of of when christendom is reigning um when when christendom has has taken root

01:29:26.920 and it's reigning supreme. I really do believe that the intramural battles are battles that are

01:29:34.560 a luxury of being on the winning team. But when you're surrounded by millions of Muslims, 1.00

01:29:42.760 when Hollywood and your universities and your government and your banks are overrun by Zionist 0.98

01:29:51.400 jews uh when uh drag queens are in your schools with your like then no no i'm sorry like i want 0.97

01:30:00.520 to argue uh as much as the next guy i really do and uh and but it's like that's a reward that's 0.99

01:30:09.180 you and you got to earn it right you got to fight back first and then you know the dwarves and elves

01:30:14.780 and men can battle. But right now we're talking about orcs, right? The dwarves and the men and

01:30:21.660 the elves can all hash it out. Will this be the kingdom of men? Will it be the kingdom of the 0.98

01:30:25.840 elves? Will it be the kingdom of the dwarves? Right? Okay. Okay. But first you've got a wicked

01:30:31.440 wizard sending in just mountains of orcs who do not discriminate. They will kill elves and humans 1.00

01:30:40.060 and dwarves alike and so right the idea that uh politically not theologically not in our churches 0.87

01:30:47.040 not in our pulpits but politically and culturally can we link arms men elves dwarves to fight orcs

01:30:55.880 i think we can i think we must i think we must this is from uh nick bonner 9261 he gave us a

01:31:03.240 20 super chat nick we appreciate it he's a regular he's been super faithful we're very grateful for

01:31:08.840 you. Thank you so much. He says, my dispy uncle, right? Dispensationalist uncle recently told me

01:31:14.960 that he believes there are virtually no Catholic Christians. He considers Catholicism a cult.

01:31:21.640 The evangelical church could use a little more ecumenicalism for optimal cultural impact.

01:31:31.180 Let's talk about this for just a moment because I do think that this is important

01:31:37.300 um in terms of you know uh no no catholic christians um this is the the angle the direction

01:31:45.000 that i would like to tackle this um and i'll and i'll start by posing a question to antonio and

01:31:50.860 wes i'll give it to you wes because we've talked about it i know what your answer will be and then

01:31:54.680 i'll hear what antonio says and then i'll follow up uh bring up the rear um what is your ultimate

01:32:01.200 hope and prayer for Rome, for the Roman Catholic Church? If Christ tarries for 500 years,

01:32:09.740 5,000 years, what are you hoping to see happens to Rome? Go on the record and correct a number

01:32:16.940 of mistakes. I think even of a, I believe it was a papal bull decrying that anyone that wears a

01:32:22.360 wool scapular made of 100% wool adorning the Virgin Mary will be released from purgatory on

01:32:27.040 something like the third Saturday. It's pretty

01:32:29.180 ridiculous. For the Roman Catholic Church... 1.00

01:32:30.920 And they have to stand by it. Yes. You have to say

01:32:33.240 like this was said

01:32:34.100 to go back, whether it be Unum Sanctum,

01:32:37.360 Trent, Vatican II,

01:32:39.020 some problems there. For Rome

01:32:41.060 to go back and say, hey, these were

01:32:43.000 wrong and we're taking them back.

01:32:45.020 That would be, I think, 5,000 years.

01:32:46.880 It's going to take time, but that would be my prayer. 0.98

01:32:49.220 So the Catholic Church removed

01:32:50.620 or the Catholic Church reformed? Reformed.

01:32:52.920 So you agree with Martin Luther?

01:32:55.980 The guy who started...

01:32:56.840 such cases protestantism so you have the historic protestant view right yeah what do you think yeah

01:33:02.120 i would say i was going to say the reformation uh my prayer my hope is that the reformation works

01:33:06.720 yes and uh i don't uh i don't i'm not blackpilled on that i think it will yes yep same for me so all

01:33:14.500 three of us are in agreement um and i think that that is one of the stark disagreements that we

01:33:19.080 have with some of our uh protestant and reformed brothers and sisters is that we believe that there

01:33:24.300 are many regenerate catholics despite some of the teachings some of the teachings of catholicism

01:33:31.620 why why would there be regenerate catholics um well because there are always going to be

01:33:38.720 inconsistent people um there's there's always going to be guys like taylor marshall himself

01:33:44.180 i i can't speak to his soul i can't speak to his heart god is omniscient but he said on our

01:33:49.180 podcast there are many sharp disagreements that he has with catholicism he's like i i do not like

01:33:56.920 that we did this i do not like that we did that uh so our prayer is it like like martin luther

01:34:02.460 martin luther um did not ultimately want to leave the catholic church he nailed his 95 theses on the

01:34:10.540 door you know the wittenberg uh door because he wanted to be able to discuss them and and he

01:34:16.500 wanted he was working it wasn't a theatrical thing that's why it was called the reformation

01:34:20.840 people forget this is like well i'm reformed reforming what reforming rome forming something

01:34:27.540 again yes they wanted they wanted to reform rome luther wanted to reform rome and rome at the time

01:34:35.720 was not having it and i would say that you know skip 500 years later they're still not having it

01:34:40.280 yeah um they're still not having it yeah and that's kind of my also but that's the goal yeah

01:34:44.820 exactly i think even a historical interpretation or you think about the american project it really

01:34:48.980 was protestants fleeing persecution yeah simply to make the continue to make the the protest to

01:34:56.180 to continue to try to make a case for the reformation um and so if you interpret history

01:35:00.820 that way then of course um and obviously we've we've gotten to a point where there's so many other

01:35:05.220 more prescient issues that we can't even really focus on that but that is at the heart of the

01:35:09.620 american experiment is to is to reform room yep yeah we want to see we want to see catholicism

01:35:17.380 reformed um that that is not my heart um is not that i i think that it's um i think it would be

01:35:25.760 a shame for a 2 000 year old church in rome to uh in the end to fall um and i believe that

01:35:33.800 ultimately, because God is just, if there's not repentance, that it will fall. But my hope and my

01:35:40.280 prayer is that it will not fall, but that rather it would be reformed. And so we want to see Roman

01:35:48.020 Catholicism reformed. We want to see a renouncement of some of the articles of Trent. We want to see

01:35:55.460 a renouncement of most, if not all, of Vatican II. We want to see an acknowledgement of wrong

01:36:02.140 and repentance from Rome.

01:36:04.880 And I think that there are many Catholics, 0.51

01:36:07.540 not all of them, of course, not all of them,

01:36:09.720 but there are many Catholics

01:36:10.780 who actually would agree with us and say,

01:36:13.640 yeah, I have problems with the Catholic church too. 0.98

01:36:15.820 I believe that it is a true church. 0.78

01:36:19.140 And so I belong to this church.

01:36:21.580 But yeah, I would like to see Rome repent.

01:36:27.040 And on that note, 1.00

01:36:28.860 I would like to see Protestants repent 0.97

01:36:30.900 of a great deal of things as well. 0.99

01:36:34.080 And that's what you have to realize.

01:36:36.280 Again, it's not the 1600s anymore.

01:36:39.700 John Calvin is not representative of Protestantism.

01:36:43.400 You have to recognize, well, I'm a reformed Protestant.

01:36:45.480 I'm a part of the OPC.

01:36:47.100 I'm a part of this or I'm a part of that.

01:36:49.020 Okay, great.

01:36:50.040 You represent 5%, maybe. 0.95

01:36:53.080 That's being generous, of Protestantism.

01:36:56.040 Think about this for a second.

01:36:57.420 um here you want to break down if we had like a graph you want to break down with protestantism

01:37:02.560 uh here in america um giant chunk of it 30 40 close to 50 percent of it mainline protestant 0.92

01:37:11.980 denominations all of them gay affirming blue-haired female pastors uh don't believe in a literal hell 0.95

01:37:21.400 they're universalist right you're like well catholics have embraced heresy you think 0.98

01:37:27.960 protestant like mainline protestants across the board have embraced heresy whether it's the

01:37:34.140 peace whether it's the presbyterian version or the baptist version or like at every single level

01:37:39.060 you go baptist you go presbyterian you go anglican you go episcopalian you go methodist

01:37:43.120 there is a mainline denomination within each of these veins and the mainline the one that has

01:37:49.680 all the property and has the church buildings and has this and the vestry and all all these things 0.98

01:37:53.800 they are gay affirming universalist don't believe in hell um they are heretics they are heretics 0.96

01:38:00.320 all right well but joel what about the rest of protestants okay so that's 30 to 40 okay here's 0.99

01:38:05.840 another 40 to 50 you ready for it joel osteen td jakes joyce meyer uh it is your mega church

01:38:16.000 warehouse smoke machine laser light prosperity word of faith gospel preaching zionist shills 0.61

01:38:26.600 that's that's your 40 to 50 percent a product so 30 to 40 percent mainline gay heretics uh 40 to 0.67

01:38:37.520 50% megachurch, also heretics. Word of faith is a heresy. And Zionist to boot. And then you've got 0.81

01:38:47.920 10-15% of Protestants in America that are traditional Protestants. OPC, PCA, some,

01:38:57.740 maybe half of the SBC. I'd like to think maybe 60%. Maybe there's hope. But it's a subset

01:39:06.880 of denominations, and then only a portion, a subset of the subset of these denominations that

01:39:12.900 haven't completely gone off the rail. Some Reformed Baptists, some Reformed Presbyterian,

01:39:17.320 a few Anglicans, like maybe two Episcopalians. That's it. That's it. So when everyone is like,

01:39:27.960 you're Reformed, you need to stick it to the Catholics. And I'll be like, okay, do you believe 1.00

01:39:33.600 that some Catholics despite the problems with Catholicism are regenerate yeah how many do you

01:39:41.200 think maybe like I feel like Abraham you know like talking about do you like do you feel like maybe

01:39:46.060 10 percent of Catholics well yeah maybe 10 percent oh great okay great so um so pretty much the same 0.55

01:39:53.660 as Protestants pretty much the same as Protestants I I think it's really helpful and I've done this

01:40:01.260 for years now, when I meet Catholics, I like to ask them, hey, I'm a Protestant, you're a Catholic,

01:40:05.540 what is your hope for salvation? When you get up on the final day and you stand before God,

01:40:10.280 what are you trusting in? And to a T, and this may not be your experience, and insofar as it's

01:40:14.640 not your experience, you need to say, oh, you said Mary, or you said this, or the saints,

01:40:19.920 hang on, brother, or hang on, friend, that's not it. But 80, 90%, I mean the most, literally,

01:40:25.500 It's a two-word answer, Jesus Christ.

01:40:27.780 What is your hope?

01:40:29.000 Jesus Christ.

01:40:29.760 He died for me.

01:40:31.160 So if you have someone that's saying, that is my belief, I'm a sinner, I'm in need of

01:40:35.040 a Savior, Jesus Christ died in my place, at face value, not knowing their soul, not knowing

01:40:40.440 their life, at face value, I think of Romans that says, if you will confess with your mouth,

01:40:45.060 Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart, God has raised him from the dead, you will

01:40:48.820 be saved.

01:40:49.300 For with the mouth, one confesses and is justified, and with the heart, one believes and is saved.

01:40:54.100 If someone is confessing, yes, Jesus Christ is Lord, and he died for me.

01:40:57.800 And on the third day, God rose him from the dead.

01:40:59.860 And who is Jesus?

01:41:00.680 He's the Son of God.

01:41:01.620 He's God himself.

01:41:02.440 He's sinless, born to the Virgin Mary, at the very least at face value.

01:41:06.840 I'd want to give it above a 50% chance that the words of the Bible are true,

01:41:11.040 that confessing Christ with your mouth and believing in him,

01:41:14.900 that is what the Bible says is to be saved.

01:41:17.620 So even if that's a tiny proportion, but there are Catholics, and say 90%, 0.74

01:41:22.160 what are you trusting in? 0.98

01:41:23.500 Well, the sinless blood of Mary

01:41:25.740 then transferred to Christ

01:41:27.140 and it was actually her blood.

01:41:28.900 Infused rather than imputed. 0.99

01:41:30.380 And there's Catholics that have done that. 0.96

01:41:31.900 That is not, hang on, no.

01:41:34.180 It does not say if you will confess with your mouth

01:41:35.880 Mary was sinless. 0.52

01:41:37.320 But if you're telling me, looking me in the eyes,

01:41:39.500 genuinely, as best I can tell,

01:41:41.340 Jesus died for me.

01:41:43.160 I'm trusting in him.

01:41:44.860 I'm going to want to give people the benefit of the doubt

01:41:46.780 and say, I hope to see you in heaven someday.

01:41:48.940 I agree with the charity.

01:41:50.180 And I would just say quick to that,

01:41:51.780 I mean, where you do want to challenge them and where we do disagree is that we would add that qualifier alone, right?

01:41:57.940 And so that's something you could be charitably and lovingly say, now do you trust in anything outside of Christ, right?

01:42:04.640 And so that's an important point if you want to push back, if you want to sort of make it about the gospel, you can make it about those issues.

01:42:12.960 But before that conversation, to assume that that's not there, I think is undue.

01:42:19.120 I don't think it's helpful.

01:42:19.820 I've seen the most Reformed guys, this would be Reformed Forum, so they're OPC guys, 0.97

01:42:23.820 they're reading through Voss, they're reading through Vantel, say the same thing. Rome is a 0.72

01:42:28.100 true but a very imperfect church. These are the Reformed guys, this isn't me saying it, 1.00

01:42:33.220 saying like, hey, there are still people here and there. They have their trust and faith in Christ.

01:42:37.860 Go up real quick. Nathan, go to the comments. I want to address someone, and I'm going to do it

01:42:42.900 charitably because they've followed us for a long time, and I appreciate them. But this is Cosmic

01:42:47.500 treason they say joel you share your ecumenicism with rome in common with tim keller rob bell

01:42:54.800 russell moore etc i just like to add another name doug wilson

01:42:58.740 the people are saying like james james white is right and you're going to swim the tiber

01:43:05.760 um no i'm not no i'm not uh first because of convictions second um because i i wasn't even

01:43:15.100 willing uh to swim across the aisle on baptism like for two years how many how long how long

01:43:23.380 and how many comments on the internet people saying joel's gonna swim you know he's gonna

01:43:27.340 become a pedo baptist he's gonna do this he's gonna do that and everybody was everybody was

01:43:32.540 for two years everybody was switching teams jared longshore he moved to moscow left founders you

01:43:37.700 know everybody was doing um and i didn't you know and i have strong disagreements with my baptist

01:43:43.640 brothers but i didn't so you so you think i'm gonna hold tight as a baptist versus presbyterian

01:43:50.600 for three years as people insistent uh incessantly putting pressure on me um but then one day i'm

01:43:58.040 just gonna go ahead and say you know what i've been thinking about presbyterianism for three years

01:44:03.060 but catholicism that's what i'm gonna do we had taylor marshall on i'm doing it yeah like i've

01:44:08.240 been partnering with pedo baptist for three years right i've been in brian survey's home i know his

01:44:14.920 children uh he's been in my home knows my wife knows my children i've been hanging out with

01:44:20.980 andrew risker i've been doing this with you know this guy and that guy and all this kind of stuff

01:44:25.280 but i had uh i had one catholic on the show and then i'm going to become i'm going to become 0.92

01:44:31.480 catholic uh that that's just cosmic treason i appreciate you that's foolish um and and you

01:44:38.880 should know better because you have been following us uh for quite a while you should know better 0.94

01:44:42.820 and if you want to talk about um being ecumenical um here's the thing it's like well james white

01:44:51.220 you know he's right you know who james white's not criticizing doug wilson you know who he's

01:44:57.080 happy to go and visit, happy to partner with, happy to do this, happy to do that, Doug Wilson.

01:45:03.240 Doug Wilson had E. Michael Jones on his show, who is a known, devout Catholic. He literally teaches

01:45:13.420 at ad nauseum, at great lengths, that the reason why Europe and America are going to hell in a

01:45:19.580 handbasket is the Enlightenment? Nope. Secular humanism? Nope. Wait for it. Islam? Nope.

01:45:25.360 the reformation

01:45:27.020 he hates

01:45:29.980 the reformation

01:45:31.380 he hates reformed theology

01:45:33.240 he is

01:45:34.180 he's not

01:45:34.720 it's not

01:45:35.640 that he is

01:45:36.760 well he speaks about this

01:45:39.200 and he's

01:45:39.860 you know

01:45:40.080 and then

01:45:40.540 as just a misnomer

01:45:42.060 he happens to be Catholic

01:45:43.220 no he believes

01:45:44.460 that is the secret

01:45:45.780 he's lock, stock, and barrel

01:45:46.660 he's lock, stock, and barrel 0.99

01:45:48.020 so Catholic 0.84

01:45:49.060 you know what else he is

01:45:49.920 let's just throw it out there

01:45:50.960 now I'm

01:45:53.040 I don't like this word

01:45:54.000 I don't think it's a helpful word

01:45:55.120 but according to the masses according to the ADL according to you know the neocons according to

01:46:01.640 pretty much everyone in the country um E. Michael Jones is not only Catholic he is a renowned

01:46:08.140 anti-Semite he wrote a 1500 page book on the revolutionary spirit the Jewish revolutionary

01:46:14.620 spirit so for him he's like two things ruin the world Jews and the Reformation Doug Wilson has

01:46:22.820 him on the show knowing that having read it and says you know what you're an anti-semite

01:46:27.860 and you hate the reformation and catholic could you come on the show again run run it back twice

01:46:37.140 twice where's the outcry where's the backlash where's james white wringing his hands

01:46:45.280 where is it like well i i went and talked to him privately talk to me privately

01:46:50.580 right what what i don't so so this idea of like well this is doug wilson has he literally has a

01:46:59.500 debate with james white from like a thousand years ago they're both fairly old at this point

01:47:05.400 it's um and i remember watching it back in the day and rooting for james white at the time you

01:47:11.360 know many such cases you know rooting for james white um where they're arguing over baptism is

01:47:19.000 a baptism performed within the catholic church if it be in the name of the father the son and

01:47:25.700 the holy spirit a valid baptism now it wasn't a debate whether or not the catholic church is a

01:47:31.180 true church it wasn't a debate whether or not the catholic church has held on to the true gospel

01:47:35.220 it wasn't a debate over this over that or mariology or you know all the rest but it was a debate over

01:47:40.960 the validity of baptism and doug wilson's defending position was yes this is a true baptism if someone

01:47:47.920 was baptized as an infant or an adult in the Roman Catholic Church, and they come to Christ

01:47:54.340 Church in Moscow, we are not going to re-baptize them. We're going to view that as a legitimate

01:48:00.180 baptism. And Doug Wilson, and I'm not picking on anybody, Doug Wilson, I think, has done a good

01:48:07.440 job. Obviously, we have our disagreements. He's not a fan of me, but I'll give honor where honor

01:48:13.340 do. Doug Wilson has done a good job. He has held this position consistently for decades and he has

01:48:20.600 never become Catholic. He hasn't. Got pretty dang close with some of the federal vision stuff,

01:48:25.860 you know, like pretty close, but never became a Catholic. And despite those affinities and those

01:48:32.920 partnerships, James White was willing to partner with Doug Wilson and continues to partner with

01:48:39.580 Doug Wilson, which again, I don't have a problem with. I'm just saying, let's be consistent.

01:48:45.320 I'm over here and I'm talking about, I'm not talking about, well, we should partner in our

01:48:51.320 churches or we should partner in evangelistic crusades. I'm saying politically and culturally,

01:48:56.660 absolutely, I think we need to partner. And I would like to see Rome reformed by the grace of

01:49:02.240 God over time, rather than simply just removed from the face of the earth. And I would like to

01:49:08.000 see protestantism reformed likewise because if i'm if i'm doing the math if i'm doing the math

01:49:15.000 at least here in america protestants and catholics and how many of them hold to heretical doctrines

01:49:21.460 whether it be word of faith over here with protestants or whether it be i never go to church

01:49:28.520 yeah like straight up like with catholics or you know adding works to the gospel or whatever it

01:49:34.720 may be um there are millions millions on both sides um and that's something that i think we

01:49:42.240 need to recognize so all right uh so nick jumped in gave another 20 super super kind he just had

01:49:50.020 another point on my beloved disby uncle as i think his views are typical of many baptists i would say

01:49:54.640 they are he particularly hates the papacy because it has a history of anti-semitism it's hard not to

01:50:00.600 criticized boomer evangelicals. Well, good news, in the 60s, so obviously after Nuremberg and all 0.95

01:50:07.560 of that, there was a bunch of Jews that lobbied the Catholic Church prior to Vatican II, and they 0.68

01:50:12.360 actually added a statement in there that condemned anti-Semitism. So again, based young right-wing 0.79

01:50:17.660 men. Apologies, but hardest hit. So it is Catholic doctrine on the books now, Vatican II. It's called

01:50:23.220 like a Nostro Erete or something like that. It starts with an N, starts with an A. And good news

01:50:29.240 for your uncle catholic church isn't anti-semitic anymore bad news for the catholic church bad news

01:50:34.900 for the catholic church good news for your uncle um just to follow through cosmic treason he

01:50:39.600 responded to what i just said and i was very charitable and kind i appreciate it he said

01:50:43.840 cosmic treason says the fact that i've been following you is partly why i'm invested why

01:50:49.200 i care why i'm making these kinds of comments it's because i care um i'm not just you know

01:50:53.920 online trashing you. I'm just genuinely concerned about some trends, but you haven't given me a

01:51:00.080 reason to condemn you. I appreciate that. And then he said, I've benefited from you a lot,

01:51:03.640 which is why I don't want to see you compromise. You raised good points about Doug. I don't think

01:51:09.440 the old guys are dead wrong in their concerns though. And if it's possible, it's so necessary 1.00

01:51:16.700 to have them as counselors. If it's possible, having older men as counselors is important.

01:51:22.300 I agree with that. Please try to seek reconciliation. And he said, for what it's worth,

01:51:28.540 I do think that they send against you. Appreciate that. And I don't know, I'll give you an update

01:51:36.440 10 years from now, you know, if we're able to bury the hatchet. We'll see. But I appreciate

01:51:43.300 that, Cosmic Treason. You've been very kind. And I wasn't trying to pick on you, but you just,

01:51:49.480 you know there's there's lots of guys you know this you watch the show you see the chat lots of

01:51:53.320 guys in the chat who are just trolling i responded to you because i know you're not trolling i know

01:51:57.480 that you've been around i've seen you um for at least a couple years now and so i felt like you

01:52:02.220 merited a response for you guys who are uh your top guys uh with right response um you matter

01:52:09.380 you matter to us and so we want to uh let you know that uh that we're listening uh you're you're

01:52:14.800 saying something in chat we're actually we're we're reading it we don't always respond live on

01:52:18.760 air but we're reading it we're taking it to heart and the guys who've been around for a while that

01:52:23.000 we know care about us and uh and who haven't been slandering us um that are praying for us that have

01:52:29.340 generously uh sought to support us um what you say uh carries weight and we listen and we are

01:52:36.220 prayerfully considering and uh i appreciate you all right uh any final thoughts that's all i got

01:52:42.180 i think we can end it on the conference someone asked about dates and updates yeah let's pull it

01:52:45.900 Yeah. So somebody was asking, you know, what's up with the conference? Can we get an update? So

01:52:51.160 this is Cameron Stevenson, good guy, faithful guy. Can we get an update on next year's conference?

01:52:55.680 Maybe a sneak peek regarding the theme slash main topic of discussion, guest speakers, et cetera.

01:53:01.500 I'm bringing my whole family next year. Well, spoiler alert, it will be all Catholic speakers.

01:53:09.280 Calvin Robinson, Ian Michael Jones.

01:53:11.920 yeah uh taylor taylor marshall every single one of them uh no we we intentionally are holding off

01:53:18.940 we have talked about this ad nauseum as a team behind the scenes in preparation and trying to

01:53:25.300 strategize and um i don't know uh we you know we have some ideas we're not really ready to unveil

01:53:32.540 anything as of yet um but but we have some ideas the dates uh we're holding the dates because we

01:53:38.860 sold tickets at our, our previous conference that we had and, and people signed up with those dates

01:53:44.800 in mind. And so I think we've sold close to about 300 tickets at like physically right there at the

01:53:50.580 conference that we just had. And the dates that we set that we told everybody back then, and we want

01:53:56.640 to honor and hold to these dates is Thursday, March 19th through Saturday, March 21st. Okay.

01:54:04.140 So Thursday, March 19th through Saturday, March 21st, the year of our Lord, 2026.

01:54:08.840 So we're going to hold to those dates in terms of theme and speakers.

01:54:13.240 First, I really need to kind of settle the theme.

01:54:15.820 And with the theme, part of what I'm trying to settle is not just the topic, but the strategy.

01:54:22.140 What are we trying to accomplish?

01:54:24.480 And that's kind of what we've been talking about, you know, behind the scenes, offline

01:54:29.040 as a team is where do we go from here?

01:54:33.040 what do we do uh because honestly i i said this on the panel of our conference uh this this past

01:54:40.540 year and i think a lot of people did not understand what i was saying at the time it's like one of

01:54:44.620 those things it's like you're not going to like this but your kids are going to love it um you

01:54:48.860 won't get it but this is what i see and i know that it's going to pan out to be right and you

01:54:54.860 will start to see it eventually you don't see it now but you will and one of the things i said is

01:54:59.220 I remember talking to, you know, to, uh, some of the conference speakers. I remember talking to the

01:55:03.080 Ogden boys, uh, for instance, and saying, um, you know, like, Hey, you know, I think, you know,

01:55:09.120 they were saying like, we, we went through a lot of division, uh, 2020, you know, the dark ages,

01:55:13.220 2020 through 2024 with the Biden presidency. You know, we had, you know, St. George Floyd,

01:55:18.140 we had BLM, we had COVID, we had all these different things and, um, mass immigration,

01:55:23.400 but but now we have a trump victory and so maybe um maybe all the fault lines have finally gone off

01:55:30.720 right maybe maybe now the dust can settle you know like there was division with some of you guys

01:55:36.980 probably don't even remember this maybe you're you're new to the game but uh 2022 it was the

01:55:42.120 great battle of uh of cn you know the battle between g3 font gate uh 2022 right it was a

01:55:49.740 terrible travesty that happened uh there was uh there was font that g3 used that was used for

01:55:56.960 the christian nationalist statement uh wasn't my idea personally but we did do it and that was that

01:56:03.680 was a big you know hullabaloo uh so there was battle over you know christian nationalism can

01:56:09.260 we have a christian nation you know uh g3 was basically you know arguing the same talking

01:56:13.520 points as he'll uh hillsdale's like write that down yeah hillsdale is like you know three years

01:56:18.280 behind you know uh kevin de young and hillsdale is like we're on the cutting edge of something

01:56:22.000 that uh everybody was talking about three years ago taking the worst talking point g3 deserves

01:56:26.320 credit in that sense at least at least you know they were making the terrible talking points about 0.59

01:56:30.980 well his kingdom's not of this world but at least they were making those terrible talking points

01:56:34.300 three years ago there's multiple accounts making those talking points yes multiple right so the 0.90

01:56:38.840 macarthurites the g3 guys everybody was like christian nationalism it'll never happen because

01:56:44.720 jesus said my kingdom is not of this world you can have a christian ministry a christian podcast 0.96

01:56:49.700 a christian school christian family but you will never have a christian nation um it was retarded 0.96

01:56:56.280 um but uh we've been there we've done that and so there was you know there was fallout you guys 0.91

01:57:01.860 remember that there was uh the great fallout over christian nationalism with g3 macarthur

01:57:06.900 uh there was the great fallout over uh the juice um you know in 2023 and 2024 with apologia

01:57:16.660 and uh ezra institute and moscow on one side and ogden and me and others you know andrew isker

01:57:23.040 the famous meme what if it's not envy you know and like and that the meme heard around the world

01:57:28.240 that did numbers you know and all that kind of stuff um you know moscow ended up you know having

01:57:32.840 to turn off the comments on that that video where isker was on with them because i was a 10 to 1

01:57:38.000 ratio of people you know siding with isker um against moscow and so you know that was that was

01:57:44.480 another battle and and i think guys you know when you know talking to guys you know at our conference

01:57:49.140 um they're like maybe we're you know maybe we're finally done the fault lines have finally you know

01:57:53.720 the dust has settled the fault lines have all gone off there's no more new ones and uh and now

01:57:58.540 now we can unite and i remember telling them personally and then telling everyone on the

01:58:04.560 panel i said uh um get ready for more division not less get ready for more division not less

01:58:11.300 because um i think the same same kind of principle right so the same concept that we said about you

01:58:18.820 know arguments about baptism this or that we said what do we say uh the intramural divisions is the

01:58:24.000 luxury of winning. It's a luxury of winning. And so if Christendom is reigning, let's argue

01:58:31.140 about baptism till we're blue in the face, right? And you can afford to divide over it, right?

01:58:36.420 Because when Christendom is reigning, you literally have, I mean, still in our America towns from a

01:58:41.100 bygone era, right? You can tell that the nation used to be Christian. How can you tell? Because 0.98

01:58:46.460 you can go to towns and there's literally like Church Street. It's literally the name of the

01:58:51.400 street downtown right in the center of the town and there's not one uh church there's there's 50

01:58:57.400 right methodist first baptist second baptist 14th baptist you know uh presbyterian another

01:59:04.200 presbyterian different kind of presbyterian episcopalian anglican catholic you know like

01:59:08.860 and just boom boom boom boom boom all the way down the line and and what does that symbolize

01:59:13.400 what that symbolizes is that there was a time when christendom was reigning in america and they

01:59:20.560 could afford the luxury of maintaining their distinct particulars. I want to worship in a

01:59:28.880 church with this group, and we disagree on what? The Trinity? No, we disagree. There's primary

01:59:36.880 theology, there's secondary, there's tertiary. No, we disagree on like third tier, fourth tier,

01:59:42.800 fifth tier, and we're going to start a whole other church because of like a fifth tier disagreement.

01:59:47.620 out. Why? Because everybody in town is Christian. Because we can afford to, right? It's a different

01:59:55.860 calculus when you're on the ropes. And so my same point of like, hey, you know what? Right now,

02:00:05.340 I think we need a little bit of unity on the cultural and political side of the equation

02:00:10.740 when it comes to Catholics. 0.95

02:00:13.520 Well, the moment we start winning 0.99

02:00:15.840 and solidify that victory,

02:00:18.180 that unity will dissipate

02:00:20.620 between Protestants and Catholics. 0.99

02:00:22.800 The moment that we secure a Christian nation 1.00

02:00:25.440 and fend off the Muslims and the atheists 1.00

02:00:29.600 and the Jews and everybody else 1.00

02:00:31.520 and the gay mafia, 0.99

02:00:32.860 then you're going to see that feud 0.99

02:00:35.000 between Catholics and Protestants.

02:00:36.760 It's not going to just go away.

02:00:37.740 You're talking about centuries-old feud

02:00:40.240 and nobody's forgotten. And those things have not been ironed out. The distinctions, the

02:00:45.240 differences are still there. The divisions are still there. They're just not the chief priority

02:00:50.580 right now. But they will be if the things that right now are a chief priority get solved and

02:00:57.060 Christendom is reigning. Well, on the flip side, so this is kind of reverse, that's macro. In the

02:01:02.820 micro, we just had a Trump election. And my prediction that I said at the conference was,

02:01:10.240 because of trump being elected uh because he's going to lock down the border i don't know if

02:01:15.040 we get you know the mass deportations but lock down the border um you're not going to have you

02:01:19.320 know like um the you know the craziness of wokeness and blm and these kinds of things that 0.89

02:01:24.600 we had before um i actually think this for a lot of people this will be the temptation for a lot

02:01:30.740 of people they're going to say this is enough this is enough this is good got what i voted for

02:01:38.680 got what i voted for um you know commercials are a little less gay uh you know they're putting a 0.53

02:01:46.800 little bit of the woke away a little bit of the woke is getting put away commercials are a little

02:01:51.580 less gay uh immigration has slowed down and um and you know they're starting to arrest you know 0.68

02:01:58.620 people when they uh commit crimes again and actually you know punish people and uh that's

02:02:04.760 that's good and and because i knew that people would think that i'm talking about some of our

02:02:09.720 guys will think like that uh trump is in power let's uh let's let's lock in right because trump

02:02:18.420 is in power jd vance is a successor and uh and we don't want to we don't want to ruin our chances

02:02:25.420 because we might get influence we might you know hey jd vance you know one of us one of us one of

02:02:33.540 us um whereas i'm not of that persuasion i don't think that jd vance is one of us and so i said

02:02:42.960 at the conference i said uh because this will be perceived as a victory in the objective yes it's

02:02:48.560 better than kamala there is a victory um but but at the same time there's there's a ton of victory

02:02:56.440 that we haven't even scratched this the tip of the iceberg um we've gotten some victory objectively

02:03:02.220 but subjectively i knew that in terms of perception some guys would view it as this is enough

02:03:08.540 got what i voted for this is enough victory and the moment that that happens here's the deal

02:03:14.060 again i said intramural divisions is the luxury of victory and so if you have on the team guys

02:03:22.240 who perceive something as a major victory then they will be comfortable starting to divide

02:03:29.080 starting to divide and so for us we've we've made and i think this is clear i think you guys know

02:03:35.980 what team we're on and where we're headed we made a clear calculus deliberate and intentional and we

02:03:42.700 said it's not enough we did not get what we voted for it's not enough and uh and we are going to

02:03:50.360 chimp. And we are going to push further, demand further. We are not content with the tech right

02:04:00.180 and Peter Thiel. We are not content with borders closed, but there's 105 million people here who

02:04:08.220 shouldn't be here. And you need 105 million mass deportations. Well, we're on schedule for 2 0.94

02:04:15.240 million. We're not content with that. And so we are continuing to talk about things that we think

02:04:21.980 need to be talked about. And so because of that, I don't think that the team has gotten broader.

02:04:28.880 I think the team has gotten exponentially narrower, exponentially narrower. And so we have to decide,

02:04:37.020 and these are guys we love. So I'm not saying anything negative about anybody. We love,

02:04:41.600 we are still friends. But we have to decide in terms of forward-facing with something like a

02:04:48.840 conference, what is the strategy? What's the purpose of a right response conference? What

02:04:54.640 are we trying to achieve? What are we trying to accomplish? Are we going to push the envelope?

02:05:00.420 Are we going to keep pushing the envelope? Are we going to have the kinds of conversations that we

02:05:04.780 think need to be had? Are we going to talk about the tech right? Are we going to talk about ushering

02:05:10.700 in transhumanism. Are we going to talk about Elon Musk, Peter Thiel, David Sachs,

02:05:18.380 J.D. Vance? Are we going to talk about these things? If so, well, just to be frank,

02:05:26.560 that makes the drawing pool a lot shallower for not who I would be willing to have,

02:05:36.460 but honestly who would be willing to come

02:05:39.220 to that conference and share that stage and so uh unfortunately i don't have a better answer for

02:05:48.660 you at this time um but part of the reason we are intentionally going to delay on uh giving more

02:05:56.360 details about topic theme speakers with the conference is um trump one and all of our guys

02:06:05.900 are doing the calculus and everybody here's the deal right to steel man it to be as charitable

02:06:13.300 as possible everybody has a different goal based off of what they're doing it's it's based off of

02:06:19.980 what they're doing right some guys like they're trying to win the sbc god bless them noble endeavor

02:06:25.880 but if you're trying to win over normie boomers in the sbc you're probably not going to go

02:06:33.760 and do a conference pointing out Jewish power.

02:06:38.960 You're just not.

02:06:40.840 Some guys are working towards, you know,

02:06:45.000 a future position in, you know,

02:06:49.000 or at least the potential of getting the call

02:06:51.800 for an advanced administration pick in 2028.

02:06:58.280 Well, some of the things that we're saying

02:07:01.560 are not conducive with that aim and so we uh we've got to think we've got to uh to make a careful

02:07:11.640 and deliberate determination of what we want the conference to accomplish and um and we we may

02:07:21.540 there is serious consideration that we we're about this close all right i don't want to give too much

02:07:27.200 away but we're about this close to uh determining this year we're going to cap the conference that

02:07:33.480 we're going to um intentionally say you know what we're only going to let like 400 people come

02:07:39.460 instead of a thousand like we did you know this year um by design we're going to cap it at 400

02:07:45.460 we're going to turn away a ton of people um we may even do some like uh like reserve 50 tickets

02:07:53.020 that are invite-only so that the guys that we know see what we see

02:07:59.140 and are on board with what we're on board with so that they get in

02:08:02.240 and then not broadcast any of the conference,

02:08:07.620 not make any of it available to the public, do a symposium,

02:08:12.420 bust out some whiteboards, do some serious strategy,

02:08:17.280 allow for uh q a and uh brainstorming uh strategizing planning um with the conference

02:08:27.440 attendees this is what we're doing this is practically how we're going to achieve it

02:08:31.940 we need uh guys in this field and in this field and this field this location this town this state

02:08:38.120 we're going to win this way um that's kind of at this point that's kind of where i'm leaning

02:08:44.460 and uh and so it would be very different uh than what we have done thus far and intentionally so

02:08:52.820 my design and uh you will hear eventually because we'll have to make a decision eventually

02:08:58.540 um you'll hear of eventually a official public uh statement about this is our conference this

02:09:05.880 is what it's on this is who's coming and uh and this is what we're doing but uh we right now we

02:09:12.300 are we haven't fully gone there but we i i would say at least i'll speak for myself i am on the

02:09:18.820 precipice of uh of making that decision of uh we're going to pivot we're going to go this direction

02:09:26.480 we're going to cap it we're going to do this thing and we're going to only open it up uh both

02:09:31.760 speakers and attendees alike to a select few uh because we have to win and people think we already

02:09:39.400 won and i don't think we have i actually think that there is a bigger enemy lurking

02:09:45.860 a bigger enemy lurking and um and we need to talk about it and we need guys who are willing

02:09:53.260 to talk about it with us and not everybody is so that's the thought okay uh is is that it or

02:10:01.120 did we get one more we got one more brandon raby uh he gave us 20 thank you so much super chat we

02:10:07.020 appreciate that he said god bless you guys keep up the great work and uh he says shut up and take

02:10:12.640 my money god bless you all right that's it for the week and uh we will see you uh well so we'll

02:10:19.920 be actually um all four of us me antonio wes and nathan will be in florida and uh we are going to

02:10:28.140 be uh strategizing and prepping some stuff with elijah shaffer i'll hop on a couple shows with

02:10:34.120 him but we're also going to be strategizing we're doing some things uh with with rift tv and

02:10:39.260 preparing some future things that'll be announced uh getting ready for that i'm excited about that

02:10:44.100 and uh so we're going to be doing that next week so if you want to watch us live uh tune in to rift

02:10:48.840 tv and uh and you'll see uh me doing some stuff with elijah shaffer talking about protestantism

02:10:54.280 uh talking about um how to how to get protestants wean them off of zionism and get them back on

02:11:00.840 track and uh and in terms of right response uh what we've done is we've worked uh we've worked 0.93

02:11:07.700 double time uh the last couple weeks to prepare for this so we have fresh content uh it's not

02:11:13.160 going to be a bunch of reruns we've recorded uh multiple fresh never seen before episodes

02:11:19.060 but they are pre-recorded so we won't be doing super chats we won't be engaging live with the

02:11:24.440 audience uh there'll be shorter episodes since we're not doing the super there won't be hour

02:11:28.320 and a half two hour mondo episodes uh they will be you know 60 minute episodes but on uh fresh

02:11:34.100 never seen before content uh prescient topics i think you'll be blessed by it so we're not leaving

02:11:38.580 you hanging not leaving you with nothing we thought about you and we prepared to double work

02:11:42.860 so that uh so that the show can go on for you the people for you the people so thanks for tuning in

02:11:48.720 and check out our content that we have pre-recorded for next week and if you want to see me live with

02:11:53.480 Elijah Schaefer. Tune in to Rift TV, and then we will be back the following week, Lord willing.

The NXR Podcast - August 22, 2025

THE LIVESTREAM - FRIDAY MEGASTREAM： Shillsdale College and Should Protestants Partner with Catholics？

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