The NXR Podcast - THE LIVESTREAM - JD Vance, Tucker Carlson, & The Ordo Amoris

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00:00:30.000 Last week, Vice President Vance made a simple statement, prioritizing your own people is a

00:00:39.440 Christian idea. The backlash was immediate. Christian leaders and politicians pushed back,

00:00:46.520 arguing that national interest should never take precedence over broader humanitarian concerns.

00:00:52.840 but that argument ignores both history and reality. For centuries, theologians from Augustine

00:01:00.360 to Aquinas, from Calvin to the Reformers, have taught that love must be rightly ordered. A

00:01:07.540 father feeds his children before his neighbors. A nation looks after its own people before 0.96

00:01:14.280 extending charity elsewhere. This isn't a rejection of others, it's the foundation of a healthy

00:01:20.900 society. The truth is America is not doing well. Real wages are stagnant. Families are struggling

00:01:28.900 and national identity is unraveling. A country that refuses to prioritize its own people

00:01:35.540 is not acting morally. It's committing national suicide. This episode is brought to you by our

00:01:42.940 premier sponsors, Armored Republic and Reese Fund, as well as our Patreon members and our

00:01:49.440 faithful donors you can join our patreon by going to patreon.com forward slash right response

00:01:56.660 ministries or you can make a donation by going to right response ministries.com forward slash

00:02:03.700 donate vice president vance is right the order amoris the proper ordering of our loves teaches

00:02:11.040 that a nation has a duty to its own people first and always anything less is a betrayal and it

00:02:18.560 certainly is not Christian. Tune in now. 1.00

00:02:30.760 All right. Welcome. Welcome back. Here we are. I'm feeling a little bit generous today. I'm also

00:02:36.560 just feeling just amped. I'm probably going to just black out probably halfway through the episode

00:02:41.400 and just muscle memory, just going crazy. I think this is going to be a great episode. I'm really

00:02:46.780 stoked about it. But I want to start with this. Because I'm feeling amped, because I'm feeling

00:02:50.980 excited, we've got a little bit over 700 people currently who are registered for our conference,

00:02:55.820 Christ is King, How to Defeat Trash World. All right, the conference is happening April 3rd,

00:03:00.540 4th, and 5th. That's Thursday, Friday, and Saturday. We want to have at least 1,000 people.

00:03:05.840 We've still got a couple months left. I think we're going to hit it. But I'm going to make sure

00:03:09.460 that we hit it today because I'm feeling generous. All right, so this is what you got to do.

00:03:13.080 libs need not apply and you won't be able to because if you're a lib you won't be able to

00:03:18.300 spell what i'm about to say here's the promo this is just nathan's not even ready for it nathan

00:03:22.400 you're gonna have to do this ordo amoris but we're gonna do this one word one word this is the promo

00:03:29.440 all caps ordo amoris nathan he's gonna put it in the chat right now here it comes just so you can

00:03:36.940 get the spelling the libs i guess you'll be able to sneak past here o r d o a m o r i s one more

00:03:49.300 time for those who are listening only o r d o a m o r i s order a morris but we're making it one word

00:03:59.080 that's the promo if you put this in we're going to go all the way back deepest discount all the

00:04:04.820 way back to the early bird pricing, $130. Okay. But you've got to register ASAP. This is going

00:04:12.000 to be like a 24 hour thing. We're going to take it down tomorrow. So you've got today. Maybe if

00:04:16.720 you just happened in the province of God to find this video early tomorrow morning, you watch it

00:04:21.400 and you just zoom over to right response conference.com and type in the promo. It may

00:04:26.960 still be operating, but this is not going to last long, probably less than 24 hours. Again,

00:04:32.220 Ordo Amoris as one word, all caps. There's your promo code. And again, for the link to be able

00:04:37.960 to register, go to RightResponse, not ministries, RightResponseConference.com, RightResponseConference.com.

00:04:46.420 Again, this is Christ is King, How to Defeat Trash World Conference. We've got Andrew Isker,

00:04:52.680 Steve Dace, Orrin McIntyre, Calvin Robinson, Stephen Wolfe, Dusty Devers, John Harris,

00:04:59.700 dan burkholder ben garrett eric khan 80 robles who else do we have i feel like there's probably

00:05:06.200 some more than i'm missing i know anybody else that you can think of calvin robinson it's like

00:05:09.900 50 yep yeah 15 people i was reading the chat while you were talking i'm not gonna lie did i

00:05:13.360 say steve days that's all right you said steve days i said steve days ben garrett let's see i

00:05:20.160 feel like there's one oh cj angle there's one almost forgot him super smart guy makes me feel

00:05:25.760 dumb all the time you just what you do with guys like cj is you um you just retweet them without

00:05:32.720 even considering what they said just believe just believe that it's just dropped retweet 0.98

00:05:37.740 we'll talk on the phone from time to time and they're doing really good you guys should tune

00:05:42.600 in by the way just to give them a plug they do great work and they're faithful they love the

00:05:46.340 lord uh they have their fingers on the pulse of what god is providentially doing in our culture

00:05:50.720 and politics. And they have done the reading. They've done the homework. Andrew Isker and CJ

00:05:56.200 Engel, they co-host a podcast called Contra Moondum Against the World from Athanasius. Contra Moondum.

00:06:03.340 And they have upped their game with their tech. Now, granted, so I tuned in because I wanted to

00:06:08.380 check it out because they're doing video. Now they're in the same place. They're not having

00:06:11.380 to do Zoom and piping in. So they're in the same place. They've got a set going. They've got a

00:06:17.200 little bit better equipment. And so I tuned in. I was like, all right, I'm rooting for you guys.

00:06:22.320 And it was the worst audio I've ever heard in my life. And about 10 minutes in, they're fumbling

00:06:27.840 around. They're like, wait a second, let's fix this, Mike. And I was like, all right, well,

00:06:32.300 you know what? They have good content. They'll always have good content. One day, by the grace

00:06:36.760 of God, they might also have some good tech and quality, but the content is fantastic. So listen

00:06:42.420 to those guys. And if you want to meet them in person, here's the thing about the conference.

00:06:45.380 we're going to have uh seven main sessions and three panels one of them is going to be a formal

00:06:51.080 debate here's the name i forgot david reese so one of them is going to be a formal debate between

00:06:55.740 david reese and stephen wolf on natural law versus theonomy and our very own wesley todd he's going

00:07:01.920 to be moderating that debate and then the two other panels are just going to be kind of uh

00:07:06.840 like a royal rumble with like seven guys on each of the panels um and and talking about christian

00:07:13.660 nationalism, talking about, I don't know, all sorts of things, American, Protestants,

00:07:20.720 you know, taking back the country for God and how to get rid of trash world and the regime and all 0.78

00:07:27.040 these kinds of things. We're going to talk about why conservatives always lose, that you win by

00:07:31.840 winning, actually, it turns out. All these kinds of things will be discussed at this conference,

00:07:36.540 but the biggest thing, more than the content, is getting to meet each other. And part of the

00:07:40.980 reason why, you know, we are probably not going to be very profitable, if at all, with this

00:07:47.320 conference. And I knew that from the very beginning. I was like, hey, we can have, you know, a conference

00:07:51.940 with like four guys. And that's great, because there's not a lot of overhead. But I basically

00:07:57.480 thought, no, I think I want to pay basically all of my friends to come, because I want to see them,

00:08:06.980 And I want everybody else to say, I want this to be an event that it's not just, it's not

00:08:12.160 just a think tank session and with plenary lectures and things like that, but it is a

00:08:18.040 relational networking.

00:08:20.100 This is going to be the event, I think, of 2025 that people are going to be saying, yeah,

00:08:24.080 I was there when Oren said this, or I was there when, you know, Calvin and Stephen were

00:08:28.920 duking it out about reform theology, you know, or I was there when Stephen and Reese were

00:08:33.600 talking about theonomy and debating natural law. And, uh, and I got to meet these guys, you know,

00:08:37.980 on the side and those guys over there. And I, you know, took pictures with Contra Moondum and I got

00:08:42.320 to, um, to, to get, uh, or in McIntyre to sign my, you know, total state copy. And, um, you guys are

00:08:48.700 going to want to be there. If you miss it, I really think you're going to regret it. So we're trying

00:08:52.180 to make it, um, as feasible as, as conceivably possible for you to come. And one of the ways

00:08:58.820 that I'm doing that is at random, like today, giving a deep discount, I would honestly, I would

00:09:05.760 do even cheaper if it wasn't, I think, unethical and a slap in the face to everybody who was

00:09:12.520 actually didn't procrastinate and, and signed up for the early bird. So to, you know, to come in

00:09:18.480 two months before the conference, like six months after the early bird pricing, and to say, we're

00:09:23.520 going to give you an even better deal than those guys who were proactive, you know, and registered

00:09:27.360 right away. I can't do that. But what I can do is I can take it all the way back to the early bird

00:09:32.320 pricing. So $130, Ordo Amoris, all caps, one word. Use that as your promo code. And again,

00:09:38.920 go to rightresponseconference.com. Okay. You got to go. Got to go. Michael, take us away.

00:09:45.140 All right. We are excited for today. And with the speed that the news is moving these days,

00:09:50.780 it is hard to keep up. I'll tell you that. I heard someone say, man, what a year it's been

00:09:56.340 last week. So it's totally true. What is Trump in an office now? Three, four years almost? 1.00

00:10:01.080 Three weeks. Yeah, exactly. Almost at the end of his term. Oh, no. We are talking about the clip

00:10:08.380 with Vice President J.D. Vance and the response to it where he just dropped the idea of the Order

00:10:15.600 Amaris. And it's really interesting because this idea of the Order Amaris touches on so many of

00:10:22.960 the trash world ideas that we are seeking to reject and defeat. And the idea of what is the

00:10:29.960 proper place of a nation, of a people? What is the proper place of a family? What is the proper role

00:10:34.220 of a church? What is the proper role of Christians within a society? And how do we keep these things

00:10:39.600 straight? And in some ways, if you get the Ordo Amaris wrong, which is properly ordered loves,

00:10:46.260 it's like following a recipe in the wrong order, right? Like throw it in the oven, then pull it out,

00:10:52.220 then mix in the flour, put it back in for another 15 minutes, cut it, now add the milk.

00:10:57.760 It is all things that have to happen, but when they happen in the wrong order or to

00:11:04.040 the wrong degree, it throws an entire system into chaos.

00:11:08.220 And so what we want to do is we want to start, a lot of you all have probably seen some of

00:11:13.600 these clips already, but just to give the context, we want to start with the original

00:11:17.560 video that Vice President Vance had, the interview that he had that kind of ignited the firestorm.

00:11:24.560 And then we're actually going to jump to, we'll make a couple comments on that, and then we'll

00:11:28.240 jump to a video between Tucker Carlson and Pierce Morgan. So Nate, if you've got that video with

00:11:34.600 Vice President Vance, let's go ahead and roll. But there's this old school, and I think it's a

00:11:38.640 very Christian concept, by the way, that you love your family, and then you love your neighbor,

00:11:43.080 and then you love your community and then you love your fellow citizens in your own country

00:11:47.660 and then after that you can focus and prioritize the rest of the world a lot of the far left has

00:11:54.440 completely inverted that they seem to hate the citizens of their own country and care more about

00:11:59.240 people outside their own borders that is no way to run a society and i think the profound difference

00:12:04.840 that donald trump brings to the leadership of this country is that the simple concept america first

00:12:10.680 It doesn't mean you hate anybody else.

00:12:12.860 It means that you have leadership, and President Trump has been very clear about this, that puts the interests of American citizens first.

00:12:20.340 In the same way that the British prime minister should care about Brits and the French should care about the French,

00:12:25.360 we have an American president who cares primarily about Americans, and that's a very welcome change.

00:12:30.340 What is President Xi doing? What is Vladimir Putin doing?

00:12:32.400 He's looking after the Chinese. Putin is looking after the Russians. They're entitled to do that. 0.83

00:12:36.280 thank god we now have an american president who's looking after the citizens of his own country

00:12:40.740 so notice in there at no point did jd vance say we need to nuke the rest of the world right right

00:12:49.180 in fact he even said the last one that he mentioned was and then you exert care as you can for the

00:12:54.480 rest of the world right but it's all about order ordo amoris so well here's the thing jd is

00:13:00.040 massive racist everybody knows this he married an indian wife as a cover-up you know nice he wears

00:13:07.200 eyeliner yeah we know what he's doing when he says you know order amorous america first what 0.97

00:13:12.820 he means is that we should hate everybody else that's right and obviously i'm being sarcastic 0.75

00:13:17.340 um that's you know i preached on it this last sunday and believe it or not and i'm i don't

00:13:21.960 exegete you know um twitter post um i really it was it's just every now and then the the

00:13:28.080 providence of God is quite delicious, you might say. And so our text happened to be, we're working

00:13:34.100 through the gospel according to Matthew. We're going through the Sermon on the Mount. We're in

00:13:37.240 Matthew chapter 7. It was verses 7 through 11, where Jesus talks about, you know, seek and you

00:13:42.920 will find, ask, it will be given to you, knock, the door will be open. And then he makes an argument

00:13:48.960 from the lesser to the greater. And so he deals with familial fathers, earthly fathers. And he

00:13:55.140 says, which of you, if your son asked for some bread, he's hungry, would give him a rock, a stone?

00:14:02.380 Or if he asked for a fish to eat, would give him a scorpion or a serpent? And then he says this,

00:14:08.420 and it's just classic, you know, based Jesus. He says, if you then, being evil,

00:14:14.220 know how to give good gifts to your own children, how much more your father in heaven? Meaning that

00:14:21.880 if you ask God and if you're a Christian, right? So through the ministry of adoption,

00:14:26.600 the work of the Holy Spirit, you're the branches that now have union with the vine who is Christ

00:14:31.160 by the doctrine of regeneration, the spirit of God in sovereign election, causing you

00:14:37.400 to be born again and to become a new creature in Christ Jesus with a new heart, no longer the

00:14:43.900 heart of stone, but that's now been removed and replaced with a heart of flesh that's softened

00:14:48.080 and malleable, receptive to the things of God. You have spiritual eyes to see spiritual things,

00:14:53.500 spiritual ears, to hear the word of Christ, to not just listen without understanding,

00:14:59.780 but to truly hear the words of Christ. My sheep, they know my voice. If God has done this for you,

00:15:06.520 he's adopted you. You have the spirit of God dwelling within you. First Corinthians chapter

00:15:10.500 six, body's a temple of the Holy Spirit. And the spirit which now dwells within you

00:15:14.320 confirms and affirms your adoption as a beloved son of the triune God. The Spirit cries out,

00:15:23.500 Abba, Father, if you are a child of God, in short, if you're a child of God, God is now your Father,

00:15:30.340 and as your Father, if earthly fathers who are sinners and fallen and evil, if they by nature,

00:15:39.400 even, albeit fallen nature, because of sin and the curse in Genesis chapter 3, if even earthly

00:15:45.760 fathers, even unregenerate, unbelieving, non-Christian earthly fathers, fallen in their

00:15:52.160 nature by sin, if a vestige of that nature in God's original design, even though it's been

00:15:57.900 tarnished, a mere vestige, if that still remains intact, that evil, sinful earthly fathers still

00:16:05.780 cannot help but desire to want to give bread and fish, food, clothing, shelter, provision

00:16:13.260 to their own posterity, their own physical offspring, then how much more, that's the

00:16:18.680 argument from the lesser to the greater, how much more God, who owns the cattle on a thousand hills,

00:16:24.540 if he is your spiritual heavenly father, will he not give good gifts to you? And so I preached this

00:16:29.940 on Sunday, and I preached, you know, on the one hand, you should probably be a Calvinist.

00:16:35.780 I know not all of our listeners agree, but I talked about that from the standpoint of,

00:16:40.060 I don't believe that this is an Arminian verse that says, you know, unbelievers need to find

00:16:44.580 Jesus. When did you find Jesus? Hey, I found Jesus. Well, I, you know, Jesus was completely

00:16:50.160 ignoring me, but luckily, you know, I took the first step and I was vigilant and diligent and

00:16:55.060 I went and I sought after him. And so, you know, if you seek him enough, you know, then you'll find

00:16:59.920 him and that finding, you know, referencing conversion, salvation initially for the first,

00:17:04.520 I don't think that's what it's talking about. I don't think this is talking about salvation.

00:17:08.220 You're an unbeliever and you seek for God. And if you seek him while in a state of unbelief,

00:17:14.720 you choose to override that by your own strength and your own ability and seek him regardless of

00:17:19.820 the fact that you're currently unregenerate, that you'll find him and you will merit the reward will

00:17:25.300 be your eternal salvation. I don't think that's what it's being said because, well, you know,

00:17:30.200 we interpret scripture by scripture. Romans chapter 3 says no one seeks for God. God's

00:17:35.560 anthropology, not just theology, who is God, but who is man? Who is mankind? God's anthropology

00:17:40.880 from the Bible in Romans 3 says no one seeks for God. No one does good. Their throats are like

00:17:46.480 open graves. They lie in wait for blood. The Bible's picture, God's perspective of fallen

00:17:51.620 humanity apart from grace, apart from salvation, is pretty bleak. And so the Bible says no one

00:17:57.500 seeks for God. So it's talking about someone who God has already sought after. There is one true

00:18:02.200 seeker, and the one true seeker in all the universe is God himself. I believe it was Spurgeon who said

00:18:07.320 that God is the bloodhound of heaven, and he seeks down, earnestly seeks for the souls of men. And so

00:18:13.480 if God first seeks you, 1 John 4, 19, we love because he first loved us. So if God has first

00:18:19.280 salvifically sought after you and by the Holy Spirit caused you to come alive spiritually and

00:18:24.880 would be adopted as his beloved son. Well, now, now God is your father. And now, because God first

00:18:31.260 sought after you, you can now seek after him. And because you're now a child of God, God is no

00:18:36.520 longer your enemy. You're no longer a child of his wrath, but you're a beloved adopted child.

00:18:41.020 Now you're capable of seeking. And there's a promise that when you seek, you will find. When

00:18:46.480 you knock, the door will be opened. When you ask, you will receive. Why? Because God is a father.

00:18:51.360 he knows how fathers works. He baked it into the creation, the created order that he established.

00:18:57.600 When fathers have their own offspring, ask them for good things. Fathers, even evil fathers,

00:19:04.840 answer the call and want to provide for their children. Notice the argument that Jesus makes

00:19:10.860 about our heavenly father and that he will grant the request of his children. He doesn't say,

00:19:15.840 um well you can trust your heavenly father to answer your prayers because um people even though

00:19:22.720 you're evil um you know regularly uh give everything they have to foreigners and strangers

00:19:28.260 on the other side of the planet that they've never met right that's not the argument he makes

00:19:32.000 um but i do know some people who think like that um right the heat map meme you know the complete

00:19:40.800 like, where's your strongest allegiance? Where's your greatest devotion? You know,

00:19:45.540 the smelt fish, endangered fish, rocks, trees, and random people in the Sudan that I've never met

00:19:52.200 before. Well, that's not a father. That's not the heavenly father. That's not earthly fathers.

00:19:57.500 That's called a lib. Don't be a lib. Don't be a liberal. It's unnatural. It's unbiblical.

00:20:06.780 It's unchristian.

00:20:08.380 J.D. Vance is exactly right.

00:20:10.200 And everybody who's losing their mind right now saying, well, this isn't Christian.

00:20:13.500 When they say this isn't Christian, what they mean is this isn't Christian after Christianity

00:20:17.640 had been tweaked and perverted, corrupted and warped since about the 1940s over the

00:20:24.520 last 80 years and perverted to where now Christianity is just a thin veneer covering

00:20:30.280 the post-liberal order where I'm just a citizen of the world, bro.

00:20:35.600 I'm just a citizen of the world, and everybody's my brother, and everybody's my sister, but that's

00:20:39.760 not the world that God created, and that's not what's in view when Jesus is teaching about this

00:20:45.820 in Matthew chapter 7. Do you want to make any comments about the Vance video before I transition

00:20:53.300 into the Tucker? All I would say is there's kind of this idea that the elites live up in their

00:20:57.980 ivory towers, and you can't really influence them. There's no way I could prove it, nor would he ever

00:21:02.440 probably admit it but a lot of this rhetoric we've heard especially from vance i mean he's younger

00:21:06.660 he's very late 30s it's really old now uh he's in his late 30s he's online he follows guys like

00:21:12.840 charles haywood it's very likely he's getting some of that maybe probably not necessarily from us

00:21:17.660 but guys that are in the dissident right like arne mcintyre charles haywood so this whole idea

00:21:22.480 like well there's the elites and they just do their thing you can influence the elites and the

00:21:26.680 way vance is talking there is probably in some part maybe not all of it right he is catholic he

00:21:32.260 may have heard this organically but certainly in some part could literally be you on x on social

00:21:37.520 media sourcing posting quotes hey this is what christians have believed you did that we did that

00:21:43.840 um and that's meaningful that is meaningful yeah so we're drawing a connection between the comments

00:21:50.260 about the order of morris and the post-war consensus and some of you might wonder well

00:21:53.860 what is the connection there well the connection is if this is the natural state that a nation ought

00:22:00.200 to provide for and prefer its own people and that people of a nation ought to prefer their own

00:22:05.440 people in the same way that a father ought to provide for his own family and a family ought to

00:22:10.040 love itself, each other more than other families. If this is a natural state, how have we gotten to

00:22:16.780 the point where this is almost the exact opposite of what we're doing now in the West? I mean,

00:22:22.880 it's not just the US, right? A few weeks ago, we did the episode on the gangs that are roaming

00:22:31.660 about England, right? It's happening in England. It's happening all over Europe. So how did we get

00:22:35.880 to the point where what is natural and seemingly obvious has been completely inverted? Well,

00:22:41.940 there's a really interesting interview that happened recently between Tucker Carlson and

00:22:46.240 Piers Morgan.

00:22:47.540 Piers Morgan, thank you.

00:22:48.900 Where Piers Morgan basically says,

00:22:51.280 oh, I'm totally free. 0.73

00:22:53.380 The results of World War II

00:22:55.020 left me as an Englishman 0.71

00:22:56.520 and my nation exactly as it should be.

00:22:59.660 And it's amazing the cognitive dissonance

00:23:02.500 that he has where he thinks

00:23:04.080 things are as they should be. 0.95

00:23:05.880 We won the war and things are going swimmingly 0.82

00:23:09.780 because we won the war.

00:23:12.340 And so the connection is the post-war consensus

00:23:15.160 And the results, I was just listening to an interview today, before we go to that clip, where the U.S. aid, which is the U.S. Agency for International Development, and agencies like it that preceded it, have intentionally sought to meddle with global politics such that no nation could ever be strong on its own and create another third world war.

00:23:41.300 right this has been a project basically since the war we've said it before um we'll say it again

00:23:46.500 but there are people who are trying to keep nations from preferring themselves strong nations

00:23:51.680 from preferring themselves so they can't get quote unquote too strong and the interview with

00:23:56.380 tucker and uh pierce morgan i think illustrates that perfectly so nate let's go ahead and roll

00:24:01.340 that uh that interview roll that beautiful beat you're avoiding asking meaning brilliant you're

00:24:05.560 avoiding asking my answering my question which is why do we have so many guns because we're free

00:24:09.460 No, no, didn't ask that.

00:24:10.320 Because we're free because no one can tell us.

00:24:11.480 We can't defend ourselves.

00:24:12.420 We all used to have guns, too.

00:24:14.060 And then you guys, after the Second World War,

00:24:16.280 which was like a liberation war, and you won,

00:24:19.060 you lost all your freedom,

00:24:19.960 and now you can't even express your political opinions

00:24:21.540 or they put you in jail.

00:24:23.020 So, like, how did you win?

00:24:24.760 How did you win?

00:24:26.040 Is that what victory looks like?

00:24:27.120 You lose all your rights, your economy gets destroyed,

00:24:30.040 you're controlled by bankers, and all of a sudden,

00:24:31.940 oh, I won!

00:24:32.740 We won because I'm not conducting this interview in German, 1.00

00:24:35.020 which I wouldn't be.

00:24:35.380 So it's a linguistic thing.

00:24:37.200 I'd rather not speak German. 0.96

00:24:38.700 Okay, okay. 1.00

00:24:39.460 Goose-stepping around my yard in England, yeah.

00:24:41.640 Goose-stepping?

00:24:41.980 Yeah.

00:24:42.320 But you are goose-stepping.

00:24:43.240 People are arrested for praying.

00:24:44.420 We literally won our freedom from people.

00:24:47.160 Where's your freedom?

00:24:47.800 You can get arrested.

00:24:48.280 I'm as free as you could possibly want a human being to be.

00:24:50.820 You can't defend yourself.

00:24:52.320 You can't control who comes into your country. 0.98

00:24:54.000 And you can't criticize government policies or you get arrested.

00:24:57.520 So how are you free?

00:24:58.560 You're a slave, aren't you?

00:24:59.960 No. 0.99

00:25:00.760 Really?

00:25:01.220 How free are you?

00:25:01.940 We have cultural problems in our country and societal problems. 1.00

00:25:04.880 Facebook right now and say, I don't want any more immigrants in my country. 1.00

00:25:07.520 They're making it worse. 1.00

00:25:08.200 uh you could say that what you couldn't say because a lot of these stories i have to say in

00:25:12.900 america have been spun completely disingenuously there's one case for example i see everyone

00:25:18.520 trying to send me as an example of britain's gone mad elon musk has done it as a guy who got seven

00:25:24.060 years in prison actually what he was doing this guy was he was orchestrating and directing

00:25:30.260 rioting on hotels containing asylum seekers because he had a incorrect belief that someone

00:25:37.400 who had stabbed three young girls to death. 0.99

00:25:44.100 All right.

00:25:44.960 The quote that just, I just, is so rich.

00:25:48.820 I'm as free as you could ever want anyone to be.

00:25:51.000 Well, that is exactly the point.

00:25:52.820 That is as free as the post-war consensus wants you to be,

00:25:56.800 which is not actually free.

00:25:58.680 That concept of freedom, I just have to say,

00:26:00.980 it's so truncated.

00:26:03.420 Like when our founding fathers talked about freedom and liberty,

00:26:05.660 they actually had freedom and liberty freedom to uh worship god in the way that you intended

00:26:11.140 to be in a denomination and wasn't ruled over by the state freedom to start a business freedom to

00:26:15.940 to have a home and all of that what a truncation of freedom to uh i i can smoke weed i can watch

00:26:22.560 hbo max and like i don't know like order doordash like literally the liberal like i'm like i'm free

00:26:28.280 let's i mean the the major tenet of liberal freedom is um i can be gay right i can be free 0.53

00:26:36.800 freedom to sexual oak weed freedom to sexual perversion right that's like and that's what 0.97

00:26:42.340 people think of they you know they think um you know well at least uh at least i can be gay you 0.94

00:26:47.920 know uh yeah okay but um one that's not good for you that's not the kind of liberty that the

00:26:53.740 founding fathers gave their lives for um when they were talking about liberty they weren't talking 0.99

00:26:57.780 about liberty for butt sex. They were talking about actual liberty, liberty to worship God 0.95

00:27:02.440 according to your conscience and to the word of God without tyranny. They were talking about the

00:27:06.760 freedom to be able to protect yourself, leave an inheritance to your children's children,

00:27:11.400 to build wealth, to self-defense, to start a business, to generate wealth, to do this,

00:27:16.300 to do that. Real freedom, real freedom. Not the freedom of the pod man, right? The bug man.

00:27:24.080 um well i'm free i'm free to watch netflix you know or i'm free like that you know there's a

00:27:29.500 ton of people you know in the matrix that thought they were free i'm free to do this i'm free to do

00:27:33.240 that you're a battery like you're a battery for the elite you're a tax farm you're right um you're

00:27:38.720 just you're fueling people above you and you're just you've been placated you've been you you

00:27:45.220 know you're docile because um because they have given you a form of freedom but but it's only

00:27:50.060 freedom um to um to appease your basis um most based appetites that's but that's not real freedom

00:27:59.400 and notice like the only example you can give like tucker gives three examples of the ways in which

00:28:03.440 they're not free you're not free to criticize your government without um the jeopardy of being uh

00:28:09.700 arrested and them taking legal action against you you're not free uh to determine who comes

00:28:13.960 into your country um and you know so you're not free to police your own borders and defend you

00:28:19.140 know your heritage and your people and you're not free um at the individual level to self-defense

00:28:23.680 you know in terms of gun rights and these kinds of things um and pierce morgan you know he counters

00:28:28.700 this by um tucker says here's three ways you're not free and all three ways of those are that he

00:28:34.460 cites are backed up and legitimate uh pierce morgan gives only one example in the positive

00:28:38.920 of well we are free and uh the only example that he can even think of is uh well at least we're

00:28:44.360 not speaking german to be fair he gave two he's also not having to goose step in his yard

00:28:48.500 so he's not speaking german and he's not having to goose step at noon every monday but i think

00:28:53.540 you know tucker did a good job and say but you are goose stepping so you're just you're goose

00:28:57.120 stepping in english yeah right um and that's the sad thing is that uh i think we've been so

00:29:01.600 brainwashed in so many ways um we would rather be uh slaves that speak english than um people who

00:29:09.180 are free and speak german i i like english uh i don't you know i'm not a great language it's a

00:29:15.520 great language i'm not german um but i'd rather be uh i'd rather be speaking german and free

00:29:20.860 than speaking english and a slave and it's so ridiculous like hitler had no ambitions to take

00:29:26.480 over the world it was a reunification of the german people there was no idea of like i'm 0.95

00:29:30.060 going to go to england and we're just going to march people down and force them like that's 0.85

00:29:33.480 just a historical it's stupid and it's a silly example yeah i think one thing to point out about 0.96

00:29:38.880 the history or the freedom question is and again i just feel like some of these things we've said 0.98

00:29:44.640 But, Wes, I agree with what you're saying, but it's even more than that, because the founders and the Puritans, those who came over from England, they applied biblical passages such as, it is for freedom that you have been set free.

00:29:58.220 And they saw the freedom that Christ gives his people needing to have a physical, tangible outworking, which would be, we ought to be able to live in the way that is governed by our Christian virtue.

00:30:12.220 you and so even going to the idea of the order of maris one of the problems is many people

00:30:18.640 spiritualize this to such a high degree that they say well it doesn't apply you can't make

00:30:23.080 judgment calls about immigration based on the order of maris or you can't you can't work this

00:30:27.660 out into should a nation prefer its own people or its neighbor or the country that's far far away

00:30:32.620 from it and i just want to say like christianity has always understood that spiritual truths we

00:30:39.120 have been set free from sin. And then they said, okay, we've been set free for freedom. What does

00:30:44.040 that look like in the tangible, practical way? Well, we have to be able to live it. We have to

00:30:47.460 be able to worship the way we want to, but also we have to be able to be governed by just laws.

00:30:52.100 We have to be in a position where a man can work and keep the return on his labor, provide for his

00:30:59.180 family, where if he is slothful, his family will suffer. And if he is disciplined and hardworking,

00:31:06.080 his family will prosper. I mean, the spiritual reality always, this is the point, always has

00:31:11.840 pushed itself into practical applications, and the Ordo Amaris is the same way. Yep, well said.

00:31:18.320 All right, let's take a break here and go to our first commercial, and when we come back,

00:31:23.000 we'll be talking about whether this is, in fact, a Christian stance, what J.D. Vance said.

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00:33:08.700 All right, we are back.

00:33:10.260 So needless to say, as I'm sure all of you have seen, Vice President Vance's comments

00:33:17.060 sparked applauds.

00:33:19.040 They sparked outrage.

00:33:20.140 They sparked all sorts of people coming out of the woodworks and saying, this is not Christian.

00:33:24.980 I had to laugh at William Wolfe who said I am a Christian I went to seminary this is definitely

00:33:30.360 Christian people flashing all their credentials so the question really is at the end of the day 0.69

00:33:34.920 at least for this podcast apart from whether or not it's good good political maneuvering and 0.64

00:33:41.420 practice which I think it is the question for us is is this actually a Christian position is what

00:33:47.800 Vice President Vance said a Christian position so I want to play a couple of not play show a couple

00:33:52.880 of screenshots from X where people weighed in on this. So let's go to the first one.

00:34:00.460 At the top of the screen, you're going to see a post from Edward Fezer, who is a professor of

00:34:08.980 philosophy. He's a scholastic Catholic. And he said this, he said, the vice president has St.

00:34:15.100 Augustine, St. Thomas Aquinas, and indeed the entire mainstream Christian and natural law

00:34:20.180 traditions on his side. His critics have, on their side, woolly liberal bromides and feet

00:34:26.200 stomping, which I thought was pretty great. That's good. Now, we're going to go through

00:34:31.320 some of the source material here, but he is saying, as a professor of scholasticism and

00:34:36.660 Christian history, absolutely, this is the lion's share of the Christian testimony throughout

00:34:43.140 history, both natural law tradition and biblical studies tradition. That's it. He is entirely in

00:34:50.880 the camp of the established tradition. There was a follow-up post there, Nate, if you'll show that

00:34:54.840 again, from one Anthony Esselin, whom I don't know as much. It said, it's also to be found in

00:35:02.800 Lewis's Abolition of Man, which, Wes, is one of your favorite books. Every chance I can plug it,

00:35:08.280 i do yep um where he says the tau uh which is the natural order embraces moral requirements

00:35:14.280 regarding particular duties of charity close to home and love of family along with requirements

00:35:19.360 of a more general benevolence lewis and tolkien are with vance here solidly yep so high praise

00:35:26.040 there for um what vice president vance is saying and um what he is claiming um one last one that

00:35:36.880 I wanted to show just because it illustrates the duplicity on the liberal and progressive side,

00:35:42.920 both the Christian liberal side and the secular liberal side. So let's show the one from 0.90

00:35:48.360 Malos Toast here, Nate. The left is perfectly fine applying the principle of Ordo Morris and

00:35:56.300 natural relations when it comes to things like COVID. So he says, quote, get the vax or your

00:36:01.600 grandma dies. In other words, we have to shut down the entire society because your grandma who is

00:36:07.180 close to you might die. Shut down that elementary school on the other side of the city. Doesn't 0.99

00:36:11.700 matter that they're, you know, going to miss a whole year of education. Your immediate family,

00:36:16.920 your natural obligation and duty to your grandmother matters more than some distant

00:36:21.580 elementary school. And then he says, now you should love illegal immigrants more than your

00:36:26.720 grandma. And then he says, typical Marxist maneuvering to latch onto whatever they can 0.70

00:36:31.660 leech, whatever they can to leech the most power, like parasites on civilization that they are. 0.97

00:36:38.600 I think that's a perfect illustration of exactly what happens. The order of Morris, 0.97

00:36:43.500 love the people close to you, your grandma, your mom, whatever it is. Great. We should definitely

00:36:50.580 prefer our own in that situation. Now that we're dealing with international immigration questions,

00:36:55.220 no no no no don't prefer your own that would be a terrible idea that would be immoral that would 0.83

00:36:59.540 be wrong and it really shows i think the duplicity going on and the the way that a lot of this is just

00:37:06.180 um power plays and attempts to to gain influence and um you know really to to get influence over

00:37:15.780 the system by any appeal to emotion that they can there's a great uh they're like soy jack memes or

00:37:21.460 whatever but there's one where it's a guy and he says uh jesus said to be compassionate or something

00:37:26.020 it's like a quote from him and it follows up like well no i'm not a christian at all and i actually

00:37:30.280 have contempt for all of your beliefs but maybe if i say this uh you'll do what i want so i'm

00:37:35.060 going to use a bible verse on you about love or mercy and compassion i'm not a christian right

00:37:40.040 wouldn't work on me i actually hate your religion but if i use this i just might be able to get you 0.83

00:37:45.460 to do what i want right yeah yep yeah no that's i mean that is how many non-christians function 0.88

00:37:51.380 they're always throwing in your face what they think the bible says yeah they don't actually

00:37:56.100 know right because they're throwing in your face what the normie christians have told them is in

00:38:01.600 the bible that's true yeah we do disciple the culture yeah that's true that's a good point

00:38:06.500 yeah yeah um let's get to uh well you have some more from x i think no we're gonna jump into the

00:38:13.500 quotes yeah yep okay because we want to chronicle what part of what we want to do in this episode is

00:38:18.100 show you from major thinkers throughout church history theologians how this is not a novel

00:38:25.720 position at all it is the lion's share dominant position throughout all of church history

00:38:29.960 the aberration is the last you know 70 80 years yeah we are the ones who are standing outside

00:38:38.800 of this uh clear witness of church history it's uh we like people all the time you know

00:38:46.020 all you have to do is pan out that's all you have to do because a lot of times people will think

00:38:50.480 well that can't be true because you know um you know it goes against uh the way everyone thinks

00:38:56.400 today and it's like yeah but um the way everyone thinks today goes against the way everyone always

00:39:02.020 thought since the beginning of the world right like we're we're the weird ones we're the ones

00:39:06.140 who are out of order.

00:39:07.460 All right, I want to give two caveats

00:39:08.980 before we jump into this.

00:39:10.660 Number one is we do have to understand

00:39:13.600 the time that we live in.

00:39:14.980 And part of what has made this an issue

00:39:17.020 that needs to be reconsidered is globalism.

00:39:20.220 A thousand years ago,

00:39:21.880 even the entire nation of England

00:39:23.780 would not have known about some natural disaster

00:39:26.240 in Sierra Leone or Indonesia or something like that, right?

00:39:30.340 So they wouldn't have even had a compulsion

00:39:33.100 or an ability to know about some sort of suffering

00:39:35.920 on the other side of the world

00:39:37.020 that they might need to have

00:39:40.020 some sort of Christian response to.

00:39:41.520 So that's one thing we do have to acknowledge.

00:39:43.560 We live in a time where the global headlines

00:39:46.340 are bringing things to people's eyes

00:39:48.100 almost instantaneously, right?

00:39:51.220 And so there is an appeal for your empathy

00:39:53.420 at all times that you have to be careful of

00:39:55.620 because it's easy to feel empathy

00:39:59.260 when you see these images

00:40:00.400 from the other side of the world, right?

00:40:01.980 And I think part of what the media does

00:40:04.980 is they put that in front of you

00:40:06.160 as an emotional manipulation, right?

00:40:09.280 Which is not to say we ought not have compassion on all,

00:40:12.960 like a general disposition of goodwill.

00:40:14.680 That used to be the Christian position,

00:40:16.200 goodwill, men of goodwill, right?

00:40:18.900 However, that is just something we have to be aware of

00:40:21.960 in the global time that we live in.

00:40:23.680 And that good, real quick, that goodwill is universal.

00:40:25.880 This is one of the quotes that I used

00:40:27.040 for my sermon yesterday, but from Aquinas, he says this,

00:40:31.460 on this respect, we love all men equally

00:40:34.020 out of charity. So he's speaking of not necessarily our behaviors or our tangible physical actions,

00:40:40.260 but our general disposition, our goodwill, our feeling towards humanity as a whole. It should be

00:40:47.140 a general disposition of charity, not animus, not malice, but charity. So we love all men equally

00:40:54.640 in terms of a general disposition, feeling of charity towards all men, because we wish them

00:41:00.840 all one same generic good. And to put a little bit more of a fine point on that, we would go

00:41:06.320 further and say that that one same generic good that we wish for all men universally, globally,

00:41:13.980 is the highest good, the eternal good, which is namely their justification, the salvation of

00:41:20.200 their souls. Aquinas continues, namely everlasting happiness, which is salvation, everlasting

00:41:26.720 happiness eternal joy and peace which is only found in christ secondly love is said to be greater

00:41:33.680 through its action being more intense and in this way we ought not to love all equally um

00:41:42.480 to sum that up in short i wrote the following this is in my my sermon notes i said in short

00:41:47.200 aquinas taught that we must love all universally but practically we must love all unequally i'll

00:41:56.080 I'll say that again. Aquinas taught that we must love all universally, but practically in terms of

00:42:04.320 not just word or theory, but deed and practice. Practically, we must love all unequally. So when

00:42:12.220 it comes to the actions of love, we must triage. So actions of love, meaning making tangible

00:42:19.180 physical provision. We don't take our paycheck every two weeks or every month and say, well,

00:42:25.920 there's 8.3 billion people in the world. And so I'm going to take my paycheck and divide it by

00:42:30.240 8.3 billion people. And everyone's going to get a fraction of a penny every two weeks when I get

00:42:35.820 paid. If you do that, that actually does zero good for mankind, because it's so insignificant

00:42:44.220 by the time it's, you know, it's distilled and trickled down. And not only does it do zero good

00:42:49.840 for people on the other side of the world that you've never even met, it also, most significantly,

00:42:54.800 it does zero good for your own people, especially your family, your children. You do that, and you

00:43:02.720 have just effectively starved your own wife and children. And according to Scripture, the Apostle

00:43:09.260 Paul says, he doesn't say, if you won't make equal, tangible, physical provision for every single

00:43:15.420 person alive on the planet at any given time, then you're not a good person, or you're not a

00:43:20.100 christian or you've denied the faith paul never says that what paul does inspired by the holy

00:43:24.860 spirit in holy scripture what he does say is that any man who does not provide for his own

00:43:29.200 the members of his own household his own family he says that that man is actually and he doesn't 0.87

00:43:34.940 say that man is equivalent to an unbeliever no he says that man is worse than an infidel worse 0.54

00:43:40.700 he's actually worse than an unbeliever and he has denied the faith so disposition general 0.73

00:43:46.840 disposition that is your feeling towards mankind your general feeling towards mankind should be

00:43:53.700 universal love i i love all people i'm i am rooting for uganda i'm rooting for russia i'm

00:44:01.960 rooting for china i'm rooting for canada i'm rooting for mexico i i hope that all people

00:44:07.340 by god's grace um thrive in this life and i hope that all of them by god's grace in accordance with

00:44:16.020 his will would attain good, temporal, earthly good, but most importantly, the highest good,

00:44:22.700 the eternal good, their everlasting happiness, that is their salvation in Jesus Christ. That

00:44:27.900 is a universal love in terms of our disposition. But there must be a hierarchy of loves, that is

00:44:36.160 to say, unequal loves in terms of not our general disposition, but our particular practice. In

00:44:43.980 particular practice in terms of not theory theoretical love or words of love thoughts of

00:44:52.420 love thoughts and prayers but over here in terms of word not in not love in word but now love in

00:44:59.180 deed when it comes to our actions we are not only is it permissible it is actually a sin to do

00:45:06.920 otherwise. We must give, in terms of a triage of priority, we must give our greatest efforts,

00:45:15.260 the majority, lion's share of our actions, the majority of our striving, our time, our work,

00:45:22.440 all these things towards loving in practice, loving indeed those who are closest to us,

00:45:29.800 and then rippling out. So we are going to love our family in terms of practice the most. We are

00:45:37.420 going to love the world in terms of our general disposition, a position, a general position of

00:45:43.760 charity towards all mankind. Yeah. I remember how this played out very young. I grew up in a Baptist

00:45:48.860 church with a huge missions emphasis, which that was kind of the, you know, what was in the air at

00:45:53.760 the time. And there was a good love, I think, for the unsaved. But I remember I'd like try to pray

00:45:58.220 at night and i would start praying maybe for people that are unsaved and then i would go up

00:46:01.860 to the national level i'd be like well shoot like if i prayed for x y and z country that we know

00:46:06.380 this missionary from well i can now think of three other countries that i need to pray for

00:46:09.940 and how much how much time should i spend praying for them or you would pray for something local

00:46:14.120 and then you think of your neighbor well he's unsaved and that's a bigger need than this family

00:46:18.080 member who's sick or my brother and sister and i remember being almost paralyzing because it's like

00:46:22.500 i could sit here and pray for hours and hours and hours and hours and i wouldn't name everyone that

00:46:26.500 was unsaved i wouldn't name every country that had individuals in it that needed conversion

00:46:30.720 whereas in like the past week my kids have been sick i prayed more for their colds to get better

00:46:35.660 than for the salvation of my neighbor's kids well in the eternal sense like what is of more value

00:46:40.460 like being healed from a cold or or eternal salvation you of course know the answer but

00:46:45.640 they're my kids that were sick and that lion's share that majority of the prayer lavished on

00:46:51.420 them without guilt for man i prayed for them with a cold but really my neighbor needs to be saved

00:46:56.080 and really a lot of people in georgetown need to be safe and texas and politics and united states

00:47:00.040 and mission you don't need to do all that don't be paralyzed and don't teach your kids to do that

00:47:03.620 either pray for that which is closest well well said so even in prayers because again that is

00:47:08.840 still love and practice because you're actually doing so prayer is we believe that prayer is real

00:47:13.900 that it works um that the prayers of the righteous availeth much um and so uh but that is still that's

00:47:20.800 not just a general disposition that's i'm devoting effort time thought i'm doing something prayer is

00:47:27.440 an action i'm taking action so when it comes to our actions it's not just because well you don't

00:47:32.800 love everybody equally when it comes to love in the realm of practice because you're fallen because

00:47:37.760 you're sinful and that's why you don't love it no um you can't love everyone equally um because not

00:47:44.000 of your because of your fallenness but because of your finitude because you're a creature you're

00:47:48.960 creaturely god is the creator the only creator who is to be ever forever praised amen we are

00:47:54.940 creatures that means to us is given uh one mind um limited resources 24 hours in a day 80 years

00:48:04.820 give or take uh of a life you know um we're we're very limited in our resources so so it's it's not

00:48:12.200 like well i'm gonna love you know some people uh in terms of again love in in action love and

00:48:17.620 practice. I'm going to love some people more than others because I'm content to be unfair,

00:48:23.940 because I'm a sinner and I'm fallen. No, it's because I'm content to be a creature,

00:48:29.060 because I'm finite. God made me and bound me by the creaturely restrictions that are upon

00:48:35.680 all of us. We're not omniscient. We're not omnibenevolent. We're not omnipotent. We're not

00:48:40.940 god and in fact i would argue that the only way to love equally truly not not just in general

00:48:47.680 disposition of charity but in the realm of practice deed the only way to love all people equally is to

00:48:53.920 love no one at all and i think that that's precisely what the liberal does right and i'll

00:48:59.140 just say it um i think the liberal is being consistent when the liberal says well i love

00:49:04.360 people on the other side of the planet just as much as i love our nation just as much as i love

00:49:09.300 my family and i would say yeah i think he's being honest um you're you know you're the liberal who

00:49:18.740 has cut off your parents because they voted for trump and you won't even see them for thanksgiving

00:49:23.540 you're the liberal who has opted out of having children and chosen self-elected to be a single 0.91

00:49:29.780 cat lady for the rest of your life um you are the liberal who um is a lousy neighbor who just

00:49:36.260 keeps to themselves and doesn't really concern yourself. Who hates having kids around. Yep, 1.00

00:49:40.100 who hates having kids around. I've noticed that with moms who are more liberal, they see their 1.00

00:49:43.960 kids as an inconvenience, as a general rule. So it is possible, to be fair, to add this caveat,

00:49:50.140 it is possible, not just in the realm of general disposition, charity towards all mankind, but

00:49:55.740 over here, in the realm of tangible, physical, practical love. It is possible to love everyone

00:50:01.400 on the planet practically physically equally that's true but the only way to attain that is

00:50:06.120 to love no one at all yeah and i believe that liberals in large part have attained it it's

00:50:11.180 impressive it's actually not love liberals are town family it's like aragorn right on lord of

00:50:17.700 the rings it's like you know and the hobbits are asking him you know they they see the ring race

00:50:21.960 for the first time and they're like what are they yeah and he says they were men once so too is a

00:50:28.460 liberal like what is a liberal they were men once um but no longer and aquinas you know he he makes

00:50:35.300 that argument and calvin makes that you know that um to neglect your own household um is you know

00:50:41.820 makes you as as the apostle paul says worse than the infidel worse than unbeliever um it makes you

00:50:47.820 a monster it makes you um in a very real sense it is to um to lose your own humanity it makes you 0.69

00:50:54.820 less than human um the type of person who is so seared in heart and mind and conscience

00:51:01.860 that they have no regard for their own family their own posterity their own kinsmen according

00:51:08.740 to the flesh that they have no preference for their own people for their own country for their

00:51:13.940 own uh citizens um and and that they're content to just you know love uh the world at the cost

00:51:22.740 and and even in their love for the world it's just virtue signaling it's not really love and

00:51:27.220 practice or indeed but this this thin veneer this facade of loving the world in in word

00:51:34.100 merely word with no deed at all and to do that at the expense of loving their own

00:51:38.900 in any tangible way whatsoever um that kind of person is less than a person yeah they are a 1.00

00:51:46.740 monster. They have lost their own humanity. In a very real sense, they've forfeited their soul. 1.00

00:51:54.980 All right, well, let's go ahead and look at some of the quotes. And the second caveat you guys

00:51:59.400 already actually mentioned that I was going to say, which is that some of the, it is true

00:52:03.240 that our spiritual relationship to the church, that even the church universal, is a more ultimate

00:52:08.780 relationship, right? That is an eternal relationship. And so you'll hear sometimes

00:52:14.200 where some of these theologians,

00:52:16.080 they greatly highlight the duty that we have

00:52:18.400 to our own church.

00:52:20.240 Not even your local church,

00:52:22.200 but to the church universal.

00:52:23.540 And you'll hear that in some of the quotes,

00:52:24.880 but the key to keep in mind here

00:52:26.200 is ultimate versus the duties that God has given you.

00:52:29.620 And one of the ways they resolved this

00:52:31.080 was they said, actually loving God comes first

00:52:34.420 and God has given you your obligations

00:52:37.200 to your family and to your nation.

00:52:39.320 And so some of them grouped,

00:52:41.760 the reason they would say you ought to love your family

00:52:44.120 more is because in God's providence, that's who he gave you. And so loving your family is actually

00:52:49.840 accomplishing your first duty, which is to love God, because he is the one who providentially

00:52:55.180 gave you your spouse, your children, your town, your nation. And so they, it's very interesting.

00:53:00.540 They were able to put some of the natural loves as primary because it falls under the first

00:53:06.960 commandment, even more so than falling under the second commandment, which I thought was

00:53:11.160 pretty interesting. Okay, here are some of the quotes. So guys, what we'll do is I'll read

00:53:15.300 through here. If there was something that stuck out and you want to make a short comment on it,

00:53:20.040 then we will. If not, our goal is here to document what has been said. Okay, so this first one is

00:53:26.240 from Augustine, Sermon 344. He says, to those set alight by this love, which is the love that a

00:53:33.060 Christian has for God, or rather that they may be more set alight, this is what he says, who is

00:53:40.480 christ whoever loves father or mother above me is not worthy of me and whoever does not take up his

00:53:46.840 cross and follow me is not worthy of me matthew 10 37 to 38 he did not abolish love of parents

00:53:53.240 wife or children but put them in their right order he didn't say whoever loves but whoever loves

00:54:00.240 above me and here it is where uh we cannot abolish the natural order simply stated the natural order

00:54:07.480 starts with love for god first right i would just comment on that that man that verse when it's

00:54:13.080 misapplied is profoundly irritating because one of the things in there is whoever does not hate wife

00:54:18.380 you know if that truly means hating your wife then god is schizophrenic because the command

00:54:24.180 of husbands is to love your wife so unless you are profoundly loves the church right intensely

00:54:30.320 your physical wife should be loved and then jesus says whoever does not hate his wife so either god 0.99

00:54:35.120 It is profoundly stupid to think that what is being said there 0.97

00:54:39.520 is that the natural family and the natural order is put aside 1.00

00:54:43.280 that is just relegated to be flat compared to be replaced by love for Jesus.

00:54:51.000 They're not replaced by, but rather it's a comparison.

00:54:54.260 Like Augustine points out, he's not saying don't love them at all,

00:54:57.200 but saying loving in comparison, in the right order.

00:55:00.160 So yes, Jesus does say, who is my father and mother?

00:55:02.660 He talks of his spiritual family, not to replace.

00:55:05.920 Jesus says to John at the foot of the cross, take care of my physical mother.

00:55:10.320 So that relationship has not been replaced, but the Christian has been added to, as Peter

00:55:14.340 would say, a holy nation, a holy people, a spiritual family, adopted sons and daughters,

00:55:19.120 not destroying the other, but complementing together and love for God, ranking above that

00:55:24.200 natural family.

00:55:25.160 That's all that's being done there.

00:55:26.720 But that's not the order of Morris West.

00:55:28.480 when jesus says to john behold your mother what he's actually saying is that john is standing in

00:55:34.620 as one of the apostles a foundation of what would be the christian church and he's saying that the

00:55:41.040 church has a mother and that mother is mary right so you could have vatican two insights right there

00:55:47.260 you could have that view um and be wrong cut the feed and be wrong or um you could say no this is

00:55:55.820 jesus the god man yeah and even as he's carrying the weight of the sin of the world and enduring

00:56:03.020 the white hot wrath of god for sin even in that moment in his humanity he still has temporal

00:56:09.980 concerns for the well-being the physical well-being of his earthly mother because

00:56:14.460 jesus is modeling for us who god is but also who man is when grace perfects nature this is jesus

00:56:23.500 is god certainly no less but he is also the god man he is perfectly god fully god but also perfect

00:56:31.980 man he's showing us perfect humanity and perfect humanity right greater love has no one than this

00:56:37.580 that a man would lay down his life for his friends and yet even in his sacrifice of laying down his

00:56:43.660 life in love for his friends that's one picture of perfect humanity the perfect man but even in

00:56:49.180 that he doesn't even do that at the expense of foregoing his earthly natural obligations to his

00:56:56.140 household in this case being his mother so he's going to model for us perfect humanity in

00:57:02.060 sacrificial love laying down his life while simultaneously also making sure that he doesn't

00:57:07.340 abdicate his earthly moral responsibilities as a human man with a widowed mother who has physical

00:57:15.980 tangible needs. And so he's making sure that those will be taken care of in his absence while

00:57:20.620 he then gives his life out of love for his friends. See, it's Vatican II actually, you know,

00:57:29.820 with just even that one example, wrecks the auto amoris by making it some metaphorical statement

00:57:36.880 about how, you know, the church is birthed by its mother, you know, and its mother is Mary.

00:57:41.520 in their attempt to be Mary-pilled, they actually give way to, you know, they set the theological

00:57:48.320 groundwork by taking away one of the premier examples from Christ himself of the order of

00:57:55.900 Morris. And so they actually set the theological groundwork by getting rid of that example.

00:58:01.260 They actually set the groundwork for gay globalism. In other words, modern Roman Catholics, 0.99

00:58:08.140 fake and gay 100 percent um catholics back in the medieval ages like like ancient catholicism 0.97

00:58:18.480 lowercase c before trent before vatican one i would argue and certainly vatican two guys like 0.96

00:58:25.580 aquinas guys like athanasius um no that's those guys that's our heritage those are our guys and

00:58:32.720 would we have you know some theological disagreement yes of course we would i have

00:58:36.940 theological disagreements with with virtually everyone okay so that's just part of being a

00:58:40.780 protestant but that's our heritage um because if not then honestly then we got to quit picking on

00:58:46.560 the jehovah's witness and say well you guys think you know there's the first century church and they

00:58:50.440 were faithful and then all faithful witness of christianity completely vanished from the earth

00:58:55.060 for 1800 years until joseph smith like reformed protestants let's just be honest and admit we can

00:59:00.700 do the very same thing we just we just you know beat our chest and pride ourselves in the fact 0.99

00:59:05.120 that unlike Jehovah's Witnesses,

00:59:07.180 we only had 1,400 years of a complete absence

00:59:10.000 of a faithful Christian witness, you know,

00:59:11.720 until Joseph Smith came.

00:59:13.340 No, for us, it wasn't, you know,

00:59:14.780 in the 1800s or 17, whatever.

00:59:16.640 But for us, it was the 1500s

00:59:18.960 and it wasn't Joseph Smith, it was Luther.

00:59:21.140 But it's the same thing.

00:59:22.920 The Pentecostals can do it with Azusa Street, right?

00:59:25.280 So 1906, you know, the spirits finally poured back out,

00:59:28.700 you know, so 1,800 years, right?

00:59:30.720 There's first century church,

00:59:31.700 then there's Azusa Street, you know, Pentecostals,

00:59:34.720 right the you know your jehovah's witness you know it's like it was first century church and

00:59:39.180 then there's joseph smith your reformed guys you know first century church and then there's luther

00:59:43.560 um no we we love um the holy catholic universal church the faith once and for all passed down

00:59:51.620 to the saints with a faithful remnant sometimes thriving sometimes by the grace of god merely

00:59:57.140 surviving but always present in every century in every generation the crusaders those are my guys

01:00:03.760 based right duke godfrey that's my guy king alfred that's my guy roman catholics in the last couple 0.90

01:00:11.180 hundred years not my guys that's the aberration they're the aberration they're the ones who chose

01:00:17.580 to break off of the constant faithful stream that god providentially um we're continuing in that

01:00:24.660 stream they broke off and my prayer and i've said this before and i'll say it again it's like

01:00:28.620 because for reformed guys it's like well if you're not hosting a conference where you you know

01:00:33.680 kind of like you know how people will reenact the civil war they'll dress up in costumes you know

01:00:37.620 i've been to those right you know and that's good fun i don't think there's anything wrong with it

01:00:41.400 but you know you dress up as southerners you know and then you have the northern aggression you know

01:00:45.520 and you know you have the two sides you're reenacting um that's kind of what reformed

01:00:49.500 guys have been doing forever is just reenacting kind of larping reenacting the um the reformation

01:00:57.400 and the reality is you know for a lot of reformed guys it's like the only thing that they want to 1.00

01:01:04.860 talk about is how Roman Catholics are wrong and believe me I believe that Roman Catholics are 0.97

01:01:11.100 wrong but my prayer my hope and I would even go so far as to say my prediction is I don't think

01:01:18.820 that Roman Catholicism will ultimately be destroyed I think that by God's grace eventually

01:01:24.840 and it may take centuries but eventually i think that rome will not be destroyed and be removed 0.97

01:01:31.160 but that it will repent that they would undo trent and undo vatican one and vatican two

01:01:36.920 there would still be differences in theology just like there are differences between baptists and

01:01:41.400 presbyterians and anglicans and episcopal but that they would come back to the true vine and say

01:01:46.820 yeah we uh we got off track there for about 500 years we should have held a council we should

01:01:52.560 have given a hearing. Luther was right. We were wrong. Sorry about that. I want to see

01:01:58.620 that side of the church reformed and not merely removed.

01:02:05.380 Speaking of guys who love the Catholic Church, let's read another quote from John Calvin.

01:02:09.340 There you go. Last thing I want to say, when you're reading Westminster Confession,

01:02:13.860 when you're reading 1689 Second London Baptist Confession, when you're reading John Calvin, 0.52

01:02:17.400 when you're reading these guys, keep in mind, here's the thing, the sons of Issachar, they

01:02:21.280 knew the times guys it is not the 1500s it's not the 1600s it's not the 1700s it is the year of 0.84

01:02:26.500 our lord 2025 and in the year of our lord 2025 if you think roman catholics are your biggest 0.88

01:02:32.060 greatest threat then you need to wake the hell up you don't know what time it is i understand that 0.90

01:02:39.860 yes i understand there's a sense in which the gospel of christ is always under threat and the

01:02:45.300 gospel is central. But when the reformers are talking about the Pope being an antichrist,

01:02:52.020 in their time period, it wasn't just because the Pope had perverted doctrine. It was the Pope

01:02:57.380 who was commissioning people to run them down and take from them their own physical lives.

01:03:03.460 He was not just a theological threat. He was a physical threat. He's the one who would commission

01:03:09.340 um the the physical danger of their children of their wives of their lands of their homes

01:03:15.520 um when when i think of okay who is that type of enemy today um it's it's it's it's not just oh

01:03:24.480 well that guy um he holds the trenton he's anathematized the gospel yeah that is a doctrinal 0.91

01:03:29.260 problem a huge doctrinal problem um but transing kids and aborting babies um and exporting 0.86

01:03:38.420 globalism and our sacred democracy to the whole world and giving billions of our tax dollars 0.87

01:03:45.040 treating american citizens as a tax farm and importing the third world to our doorstep so 0.91

01:03:50.680 that we have to to deal with people who have no desire to ever assimilate to ever truly be

01:03:55.960 americans um who's doing that um that the kinds of actions that come from our political elites

01:04:03.500 some of them are catholic and some of them are not but those kinds of actions have much more

01:04:09.540 similarity i think with the the types of physical threats that luther was enduring that calvin was

01:04:15.520 enduring the corruption to the priesthood when luther visits rome as he's going through this

01:04:19.280 tortured process of his conscience i mean just drunkenness they're reciting the mass as fast

01:04:24.620 as possible so they can take payment to get as many of them out there's a type of like debaucherous

01:04:28.780 living to that you just you don't see in catholic priests visibly now we obviously there's scandals

01:04:33.780 within the church but like visibly it was an orgy of drunkenness and abuse and immorality to that

01:04:39.840 they were seeing in the catholic church protesting against that just isn't the same today right yeah

01:04:44.840 okay all right so here's this from calvin so this second quote there nathan um he says to begin he

01:04:52.120 says there is no tie of relation of relationship more sacred than spiritual relationship and so

01:04:58.260 But if you pause there, you'll think, aha, Calvin agrees with the globalists, 0.55

01:05:01.840 or at least the Christians who say we have a greater duty than the Christians in Ethiopia.

01:05:05.960 However, he goes on and he clarifies.

01:05:07.760 He says, although these words seem to imply that Christ has no regard to the ties of blood,

01:05:15.360 yet we know that in reality, he paid the strictest attention to human order

01:05:20.100 and discharged his lawful duties towards his relatives, which is what we talked about earlier.

01:05:24.880 But he, Christ, points out that in comparison of spiritual relationship, no regard or very

01:05:31.540 little is due to the relationship of the flesh.

01:05:33.620 That's in comparison to the spiritual relationship.

01:05:36.820 Let us therefore attend to this comparison, so as to perform all that nature can justly

01:05:42.120 claim.

01:05:42.940 You hear that?

01:05:43.780 We are to perform every duty that nature can claim on us.

01:05:48.360 can just can justly claim and at the same time not to be too strongly attached to flesh and blood

01:05:55.180 again as christ bestows on the disciples of his gospel the inestimable the inestimable honor of

01:06:02.360 being reckoned as his brethren we must be held guilty of the basest ingratitude if we do not

01:06:08.320 disregard all the desires of the flesh in every direct and direct every effort towards this

01:06:14.580 object. So really just a beautiful setting side by side the duty that the Christian has, the great

01:06:22.400 love and worship. The fact that we have been called not just no longer enemies of God, but

01:06:29.420 sons and co-heirs and brethren of Christ is an incredible thing. And Calvin's saying we ought to

01:06:34.940 be eternally grateful for that and to direct all of our efforts to that. But he says part of doing

01:06:40.640 that is we fulfill every um obligation that the natural system can justly lay upon us because god

01:06:48.800 set it up that's correct that's 100 right god set it up it's his system and and sorry just for the

01:06:54.840 record when we object to what's going on in the u.s we don't object just because we're americans

01:07:00.680 we love america that's true but this is a perversion of the natural order when it happens

01:07:05.200 in england and in france and in germany anywhere right like god set this system up if there was a

01:07:11.140 country on the other side of the world that existed to be a tax farm right for us right and

01:07:16.160 their citizens were being exploited their own borders were unprotected their own military was 0.96

01:07:21.800 slowly whittling away and becoming deficient with you know trans you know infantry and all these 0.99

01:07:27.400 kinds of things and um and yet meanwhile um a sizable portion of their labor and their earnings 0.97

01:07:33.980 their wages was being siphoned away from their people and given to us um i would hope that we

01:07:40.420 would have the honesty and the character to object and say that's that's wrong right that's wrong

01:07:47.300 when when any any country its political elites treat its citizens that they're responsible for

01:07:54.380 stewarding and loving and nurturing as a civil father when they treat their own people as merely

01:08:00.860 um batteries back to the matrix you know illustration as a tax farm for some other

01:08:07.240 people then um that's wrong and and it's sad like i mean we do this on a global scale with

01:08:14.420 whether it be ukraine or whether you know there's lots of countries you could fill in the blank

01:08:18.080 um but we've done this for 150 years right um well we do this a lot with israel

01:08:28.000 a lot and and with israel part of the problem is not just our wicked corrupt political elites

01:08:33.780 but part of it is our theology has made us vulnerable and sitting ducks to be exploited 0.51

01:08:39.720 because because our our country is still predominantly christian have we apostatized

01:08:45.320 in many ways rebelled and turned away of course of course we have we're not saying that this is

01:08:49.660 our brightest moment in christendom in the history of these united states um but there still is this

01:08:55.380 Christian foundation and origin and history and a general Christian disposition. There's still a

01:09:01.680 lot of people in America, a sizable portion that would at least profess to be Christian. And it's

01:09:07.160 on that basis, not despite us being Christian, but because we're Christian and because of some

01:09:14.180 hijacked, perverted doctrines that have been labeled as Christian, that we actually volunteer

01:09:22.980 to be a tax farm for israel um because we think well those who bless israel will be blessed and

01:09:28.940 those who curse israel will be cursed and our own politicians i mean you look at the numbers of

01:09:34.160 the amount of u.s politicians who have dual citizenship with these united states and israel

01:09:40.060 and it's like whoa what's what's going on and it's like why why are we why are we doing this why

01:09:46.520 why are we preferring someone else more than ourselves it's fine to be charitable and it's

01:09:54.080 fine for nations to have political alliances and if it makes sense at a practical political level

01:09:59.380 for us to say that the modern state of israel should be our political ally because we need

01:10:05.200 someone that we can trust in the middle east because we're worried that there might be you

01:10:09.680 know the development of you know nuclear weapons with iran or this or that you know to be able to

01:10:14.920 on the ground with a close geographic proximity to observe and report back with impending threats

01:10:20.940 um that's fine but that's not what we're doing um we we care i mean i remember when bibby not

01:10:27.560 that long ago came and he's you know talking about october 7th and he's literally in front

01:10:32.100 of our congress he's insulting american tragedies he's like you think 9-11 was bad well october 7th

01:10:38.620 is like 20 9-11s and i understand the argument he's making he's saying if you look at the size

01:10:43.160 of our population and the number of people who are affected by and you look at that as a percentage

01:10:47.520 because our nation is smaller than your nation um then it's like 29 11s um well i understand and so

01:10:55.620 it sounds like you should do something about it you should do something about it there's the only

01:11:01.520 person john fetterman senator john fetterman from messillvania wears like shorts the inauguration

01:11:05.920 put the suit on when the real boss came into town yeah that was the only it's like speech

01:11:10.840 oh yeah the dude's wearing sweatpants yeah i had to get to the dry cleaners for this one right if

01:11:15.660 it's the president of the united states trump's walking in the room sweatpants sweatpants is

01:11:20.360 dressing up shorts really short yeah yeah gym shorts but when the true leader of the free

01:11:24.820 world walks into the room yeah right like have you seen the meme where it shows every state you

01:11:29.620 know it's an electoral you know college you know election every state is the same color and it's

01:11:33.420 like sweeps you know 400 something you know whatever uh electoral votes and it shows the

01:11:37.600 winner and it's bibby you know and he's like yeah the winner of every american election so anyways

01:11:42.960 um every country should prefer its own people its own natural citizens and uh we do that we and i

01:11:49.920 think part of with the order of more is the last thing i'll say real quick is i think most people

01:11:53.600 get it when it comes to family because even like your liberal theologians you know like um um you

01:11:59.860 know they they've kind of come out of the woodwork with vance and saying like uh well yeah sure you

01:12:04.340 love your family you know but so they like they can't even deny that they'll be like yes um no

01:12:09.920 one's saying that you can't love your wife and kids you know yes you should learn love your own

01:12:14.220 children more than everybody else's children but where they lose their minds is uh for them it's

01:12:20.140 kind of um it's not triage it's not multiple you know different ripples going out multiple

01:12:25.340 categories it's just two right it's uh your family and then immediately it's everyone else

01:12:31.480 in between your family and eight point you know three billion people there's there's no categories

01:12:37.120 in between right and i'm like how so like yes you prefer you know the five people or whatever in

01:12:42.760 your family you know my family's seven people you prefer those seven people outside of those

01:12:47.300 seven people everyone else is the same right and that's that's not that's just not what

01:12:52.420 scripture teaches and that's certainly not what the church has held it's duplicitous to

01:12:56.600 counter signal like you'll see guys and they'll acknowledge of course you have responsibility

01:13:00.180 to family but they'll counter signal the order of morris and you try to get under like well why

01:13:04.300 are we doing this like why do you not like this idea of ordering and stephen wolf he said it well

01:13:08.360 like everyone who's counter signaling it if you force them to rank yeah because white men are at

01:13:12.680 the bottom like it's really got down to it they just they disdain they're american if you're an

01:13:18.080 american or european or european white heritage and they would i literally muslim refugees from

01:13:23.820 somalia would rank higher on i would give them clothing and i would give them food and i would

01:13:27.600 give them money and i'll give them support and and when you the order of morris is laid out and

01:13:32.080 you're forced to say family community town nation people oh wow what's this down here at the bottom

01:13:37.940 oh you're countrymen right but but that only the only reason they're countering is they're

01:13:43.440 countering it for americans because they want they want us to neglect our countrymen wes is so right

01:13:48.460 i don't want us to skip over that real quick i am utterly convinced that all these guys who are

01:13:54.680 counter-signaling, you know, J.D. Vance and bemoaning how, you know, how terrible this is.

01:13:59.520 And this isn't really Christian. All of them are completely fine with following the Order of 1.00

01:14:06.760 Morris in any other country. Because in any other country, if that other country holds to the Order

01:14:13.520 of Morris and they have this triage of affections, this rightly ordered loves with categories and

01:14:19.740 prioritizing as like a pond a rock hitting you know upon rippling out if they care for their

01:14:25.220 immediate family and then beyond that you know their province or state and then beyond that

01:14:30.360 their countrymen you know citizens and then beyond that neighboring countries that they have you know

01:14:35.220 um more relation to and more um relationship with and those um and then beyond that the world as a

01:14:41.680 whole uh these liberal guys are fine with that um they're actually fine with the order of mores

01:14:46.680 They're fine with Uganda practicing the Order of Morse.

01:14:51.580 They're fine with any Muslim country. 0.98

01:14:53.360 Here in the U.S., a Korean church that's for Korean people that speak Korean,

01:14:57.040 they probably love it.

01:14:57.880 Oh, so beautiful with the gospel.

01:14:59.460 They're fine with it.

01:15:00.220 Joel Berry loves the Order of Morse when it comes to Israel. 0.99

01:15:04.680 So whether it's Jews or Muslims or anybody else,

01:15:08.900 the reason they don't want us to practice the Order of Morse is because America is still, 0.56

01:15:13.360 i don't know for how much longer but currently it is still um a majority white nation right

01:15:19.520 so if america practices the order morris um for citizens of these united states legal citizens

01:15:26.500 of these united states it would mean giving um an in-group preference to white people

01:15:32.140 and we can't have that i i really think that's what it comes down to and i don't even think

01:15:36.740 it's just christians right because they're not like they'll say no the war isn't against white

01:15:41.460 people it's just against christians well i i think there is a war on christianity don't get me wrong

01:15:45.260 i think there's been a war on christianity since genesis chapter three so i'm not saying it's um

01:15:49.740 you know war on white people against uh you know um as a substitute to war i think there are two

01:15:54.740 wars though i do strongly disagree with the guys who try to conflate them and say well it just looks

01:15:59.480 like a war on on white people because the most christian nations are western nations and western

01:16:04.220 european nations in america are predominantly white and so it looks like a war on white people 0.65

01:16:08.320 but really it's just a war on Christianity.

01:16:09.860 I disagree.

01:16:11.020 I do not think that there's a massive push

01:16:15.400 against in-group preferences and loving your own

01:16:18.380 and the order of Morris when it comes to Argentina

01:16:20.500 or when it comes to Ethiopia or when it comes...

01:16:22.840 Like there are other...

01:16:24.640 Guatemala is 95% Christian.

01:16:26.060 Right.

01:16:26.660 We're not at war with Guatemala and natural affections.

01:16:29.440 The world, the regime, our elites, Western elites,

01:16:34.800 they're actually fine with other Christian nations

01:16:37.280 doing what's best for them to where they get ahead and because they're other christian nations they

01:16:42.460 are christian nations it would mean christians getting ahead right by preferring their nation

01:16:47.200 their own their own people and because those nations are predominantly christian it would

01:16:52.120 it would mean um the flourishing and betterment of christians and they're fine with it because

01:16:57.800 they're not white christians and i like it took me a while i mean i remember it was probably about

01:17:03.860 a year and a half ago and i and i'm sitting here i'm just trying to be honest with you so i'm

01:17:07.480 sitting i know i'm indicting myself by saying like what this dude just realized a year and a half ago 0.95

01:17:11.160 what you know what an idiot um yeah i'll own that um because i i believed all these other guys that 0.99

01:17:16.800 i looked up to you know like joel it's not about white people it's just they just hate christian 1.00

01:17:20.640 no it's it's about white people it really is um the world hates christ and therefore it does hate 0.99

01:17:26.880 Christians, but they also hate white people. It's both. And, um, and those are two distinct 0.99

01:17:34.200 hatreds, um, two distinct wars. It's not one. You should not conflate it into one. You'll,

01:17:39.920 you'll miss what's going on and you'll come to some really wrong conclusions. Um, if you just

01:17:44.480 say there, there is no, there's no global bias, you know, animus against white people. It's just

01:17:50.440 against Christians. And a lot of Christians happen to be white. That's just, that's not true. That 0.98

01:17:54.740 maybe that was true you know hundreds of years ago but these days there's more christians in

01:17:59.460 africa right than there are in the west there's more christians in south america than there are

01:18:03.860 in the west there's arguably more christians certainly on the rise soon to be more christians

01:18:08.660 in asia than than in the west um but everybody's fine with asia loving asia with africans loving

01:18:14.620 africans with people in south america brazilians or argentinos or whatever loving their own they

01:18:20.220 don't want westerners to love their own and it's not because we're christian it's because we're

01:18:25.540 white all right let's go to a commercial break real quick we'll come right back all right the 0.98

01:18:31.000 clock is running out you need to go and register now for our christ is king how to defeat trash

01:18:37.260 world conference it's happening the year of our lord 2025 april 3rd 4th and 5th that's a thursday

01:18:44.140 Friday, and Saturday. And by God's grace, we're able to provide for you an all-star lineup. We've

01:18:50.580 got Steve Dace, Calvin Robinson, Oren McIntyre, Dr. Stephen Wolf, Eric Kahn, David Reese, Andrew

01:18:57.620 Isker, John Harris, A.D. Robles, Dan Burkholder, Dusty Devers, Ben Garrett, C.J. Engel, and yours

01:19:05.120 truly, Pastor Joel Webben. Come on out. Join us April 3rd, 4th and 5th, 2025, Thursday through

01:19:12.860 Saturday, go to rightresponseconference.com to register today. Again, that's rightresponseconference.com.

01:19:21.800 Listen, guys, you probably listen to Right Response Ministries because you take the

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01:20:24.160 might even put King Solomon to shame, go and take dominion over your finances today by visiting

01:20:31.180 www.reformed.money and book an introductory overview right now. All of Christ for all of life

01:20:40.640 and all of finance for Christendom. All right, guys, some of you are just now tuning in. We've

01:20:47.340 got over a thousand people who are listening to us live. You may have missed at the very beginning

01:20:52.700 I led with this. I said, I'm feeling particularly amped and generous today. And we have a little

01:20:59.440 over 700 people who are currently registered for our conference. And, uh, we want to make sure that

01:21:04.380 we have at least a thousand people. Uh, the content is going to be amazing. It's seven main

01:21:08.160 sessions. It's three different panels. We're going to have debates. We're going to have all

01:21:10.720 the stuff. You guys just saw the commercial. We've got Steve Dace. We've got Orr McIntyre,

01:21:14.920 Stephen Wolf. We've got all these guys, 15 people, Dusty Devers, the Ogden guys. Um,

01:21:20.300 it's going to be phenomenal. Um, and it's not just about, you know, the content, the thing that I

01:21:25.360 made, you know, the argument I was making at the beginning of the episode when I was plugging the

01:21:28.240 conferences um i think it's going to be historic people are going to be like i can't believe i

01:21:32.080 missed it and everybody who's there will be pointing back to it i think for um i think for

01:21:36.340 for a few years um because we're living in a providential moment right now where there's um

01:21:41.080 it's like there really is you know which way western man like there's a fork in the road

01:21:44.740 yeah um are we going to double down on just the post-liberal order and and give it a thin you

01:21:51.140 know hashtag based you know christian veneer but we're really just perfectly in lockstep with um

01:21:56.640 the way that the world has thought for the last 80 years that's completely contrary to the way

01:22:01.580 that the world thought for the last 6,000 years? Or are we going to truly go back and uncover

01:22:07.920 what's old and tried and true? Are we going to get back to real Christian doctrine? Are we going 0.81

01:22:15.020 to be able to be like the little kid who points to the emperor and has the balls to say, I can 0.99

01:22:20.320 see your balls? Who has the courage to say the emperor has no clothes? Are we going to be able 0.99

01:22:25.480 to do that and this conference that's that is what we're doing and you guys know we have gotten

01:22:30.360 you know the world's saddest violin you know um i'm not saying that you should pity us but

01:22:36.280 we've gotten a ton of hate for this conference a ton of hate i mean like calvin robinson like i

01:22:43.080 understand there are doctrinal differences i like him you know i don't know what to tell you i like

01:22:48.420 him um but you know there are legitimate doctrinal differences between the two of us

01:22:53.920 um but he was slated to speak at uh clear truth media right and nobody even knew like no like

01:23:01.780 not a word was said like i can't believe that you know clear truth media is going to you know

01:23:06.440 platform calvin robinson after what he said about mary you know and praying to mary and blah blah

01:23:11.820 nobody went after clear truth media um for you know like and before they dropped him without

01:23:18.480 any pressure whatsoever you know um you know but before they dropped him without being pressured

01:23:23.820 um when he was still slated to speak like nobody was going after them um they were going after us

01:23:28.980 they're not going after us because they're concerned about calvin robinson they're going

01:23:33.600 after us because our conference is going to teach you things um things that you're not allowed to

01:23:40.880 say things that uh virtually every christian believed for thousands of years um but have

01:23:48.100 been incredibly suppressed for the last 80, give or take, years. And I'm telling you, if you miss

01:23:56.240 it, you're going to regret it. And it's not just about the content. It's about the people. There

01:24:01.680 is a particular type of person who is going to come to the Christ is King conference, April 3rd,

01:24:07.780 4th, and 5th. And those people, they're growing, I'm encouraged, but are still exceedingly rare

01:24:14.880 currently and um and it's one thing to have your co-belligerents on x but it's another to actually

01:24:22.140 meet up and get to meet these people and shake their hand flesh and blood make relationships

01:24:27.640 exchange phone numbers um i think that friendships more than anything i think just friendships are

01:24:34.100 going to come out of this conference friendships that i believe by the grace of god many of them

01:24:37.720 will last years some of them even a lifetime and so because like i said i'm feeling amped and

01:24:43.160 particularly generous on this Monday afternoon. We wanted to go all the way back to the early bird

01:24:50.520 rate. In fact, I would make it even cheaper if I could, but I think it's disrespectful to those who

01:24:54.440 registered right away and were proactive. So I can't go any lower than that. But the early bird

01:24:58.940 pricing was $130. And so that's what we're going to do. But we're going to leave it up for about

01:25:04.020 24 hours. You've got today. Maybe you might, if you wake up early, have a little bit of time

01:25:09.380 tomorrow morning and that's it so right now for 130 bucks all the way back to the early bird

01:25:15.120 pricing if you want to register for this conference crisis king how to defeat trash world

01:25:19.980 april 3rd 4th and 5th the year of our lord 2025 then go to right response conference not ministries

01:25:26.240 right response conference.com promo code is ordo amoris all caps and make it one word i'm aware

01:25:35.660 that it is not one word, but we're going to make it one word. Ordo Amoris, one word, no space,

01:25:42.380 all caps. Ordo Amoris, all caps, one word in the promo code. Again, rightresponseconference.com

01:25:50.600 and you will get the early bird pricing, but you must register now. And I know everybody says now,

01:25:56.960 I mean literally now. This conference is going to be unique. There are other guys that we partner

01:26:02.120 with. All the guys who are coming to this conference are guys that we partner with,

01:26:04.800 guys who have the same kind of view that we do um but we're paying a lot of money and we're happy

01:26:10.060 to do it but we're paying a lot of money to have all those guys in the same room at the same time

01:26:15.480 because we want it to be not just a place for content and teaching we want it to be a like

01:26:20.960 the premier paleo conservative new dissident right new christian right whatever you want to call

01:26:28.080 what the lord is doing right now the lord is doing something we wanted to make the make this

01:26:33.960 conference the one-stop shop place where you can meet everybody where you can meet yeah you get to

01:26:40.480 meet the Ogden guys and you get to meet Isker but you also get to meet Orne McIntyre right you also

01:26:45.440 get to see Dusty Devers and John Harris and Aidy Robles and David Reese and all the guys in one

01:26:52.400 place at one time and more important than us you get to meet each other and and actually real flesh

01:27:00.500 and blood shake each other's hands look each other in the eye um make those connections make 0.93

01:27:06.060 those friendships but you got to register now and someone asked are women welcome at the conference

01:27:10.700 what would be the benefit for them you're welcome tons of women come they bring their children it's

01:27:14.620 a great family time there's food there's interacting there's friendships being made so

01:27:19.180 yeah make a family thing there's a family that comes every year that we met the first right

01:27:23.080 response conference and um my wife and her still keep up right we just met them we happened to

01:27:29.300 have lunch with them from conferences and um they come to our house for sunday dinner every year

01:27:34.400 when they come to the conference now that's cool and they they stay in touch over the year like

01:27:38.220 it's it's been great right yeah the wives are welcome to come children are welcome to come

01:27:43.420 single women are welcome to come single women are welcome to come it's a great place to find

01:27:47.120 uh find a husband you will find um a room full filled with you know hundreds of men who are

01:27:52.300 godly and many of you won't be 50 50 quite it will not be 50 50 the women will have uh much

01:27:56.820 better chances than the men.

01:27:59.440 The men, it'll be kind of like a lot of competition. 0.74

01:28:03.900 It'd be like probably a 10 to one ratio. 0.99

01:28:06.120 But the last thing I was gonna say for women, 0.99

01:28:08.700 just the conference, you're more than welcome

01:28:10.820 and it will be helpful information for everyone, everyone.

01:28:16.460 But there will be nothing women specific.

01:28:18.700 Specific, right. 0.99

01:28:19.620 We're not going to be teaching about things 0.94

01:28:22.020 that are particular to women.

01:28:24.480 We're going to be teaching about things that are particular to America, political philosophy, theology applied, and how to take our country back for Christ.

01:28:35.640 That's what it's going to be.

01:28:37.160 And I think that that's pertinent for all people, women and children included.

01:28:40.480 But no, there will be no—

01:28:43.480 No Alibeth breakout? 0.73

01:28:44.740 No Alibeth breakout. 0.98

01:28:46.060 No.

01:28:46.560 No, nothing particular to women.

01:28:48.800 Okay, Michael.

01:28:49.680 We want to close with one last quote from Thomas Aquinas.

01:28:53.180 And this is a long quote, and I really appreciate this quote for a couple of reasons.

01:28:57.320 One is that by the end, he admits there is just some of the nature of this question requires a lot of wisdom.

01:29:05.400 And part of what we have to realize, Joel, you said it earlier, the times that you live in.

01:29:10.080 And the wise man knows the time that he lives in and what to do.

01:29:14.480 And so there are principles here that are not equally applied.

01:29:17.660 Like before the show started, I talked about how we all get this intuitively on a personal level.

01:29:22.240 If you have a father, you should say,

01:29:23.680 well, his priority should be his family.

01:29:25.140 Yeah, but the night before his big board meeting pitch

01:29:29.260 or some big, huge presentation that he's doing at work,

01:29:33.460 he might stay at work until 10 or 11 that night

01:29:35.780 getting ready for that

01:29:36.780 because that is a critical thing in his career

01:29:39.560 for the sake of his company

01:29:41.800 and also for the sake of his family.

01:29:43.440 And so he might say to his kids,

01:29:44.560 guys, I know we play board games normally on Monday nights,

01:29:46.680 but tonight I'm gonna cancel.

01:29:48.760 Could you make the argument that in that moment,

01:29:50.940 his job is more important to his family well yes you always do what's most important to you

01:29:55.360 but that's just the time like you say this is an exception because this is an incredibly important

01:29:59.700 thing right and the quote by uh aquinas here kind of actually gets into the fact that it requires

01:30:04.440 wisdom to know the time that you live in to know how to apply these principles properly so this is

01:30:09.180 a long quote i'm probably not going to stop really um uh this is something that you guys could pause

01:30:14.560 if you if you go back to later and and really think through this there's a lot a lot in this

01:30:19.180 quote. So here it is. He starts off by quoting Aquinas. So this is from Augustine. It's from

01:30:25.060 Aquinas, but he says, Augustine says, since one cannot do good to all, we ought to consider those

01:30:31.980 chiefly who by reason of place, time, or other circumstances, by kind of chance or providence,

01:30:39.400 I would add, are more closely united to us. Now, the order of nature is such that every natural

01:30:46.380 agent pours forth its activity, first and most of all, on the things which are the nearest to it.

01:30:53.340 But the bestowal of benefits is an act of charity towards others. Therefore, we ought to be the most

01:31:00.300 beneficent towards those who are the most closely connected to us. He goes on. Now one man's

01:31:09.460 connection with another may be measured in reference to the various matters in which men

01:31:15.040 are engaged together. And here he says there are natural bonds that require different duties.

01:31:20.260 He says, thus, the intercourse or the interrelation, the communion of kinsmen is in natural

01:31:26.880 matters, that of fellow citizens is in civic matters. In civic matters, that of the faithful

01:31:33.040 is in spiritual matters. So the kinsman has natural relation, the faithful, the Christians

01:31:37.740 have spiritual relations, and so forth. And various benefits should be conferred in various ways

01:31:44.420 according to these various connections, because we ought in preference to bestow on each one such

01:31:51.660 benefits as pertain to the matter in which, speaking simply, he is most closely connected

01:31:57.660 to us. And yet, this may vary according to the various requirements of time, place, or matter

01:32:03.920 in hand, because in certain cases, one ought, for instance, to succor, which is to give aid to a

01:32:09.820 stranger in extreme necessity rather than one's own father if he, the father, is not in such

01:32:18.100 urgent need. And then he closes with this, and this I think is just helpful. He says,

01:32:23.260 for it must be understood that other things being equal, all things being equal, one ought to succor

01:32:29.640 to give aid to those, to succor those rather who are most closely connected with us. And if of two

01:32:38.440 one be more closely connected and the other in greater want, it is not possible to decide by any

01:32:45.380 general rule which of them we ought to help rather than the other, since there are various degrees of

01:32:51.560 want as well as of connection, and the matter requires the judgment of a prudent man. And I

01:32:57.580 just appreciate that. And really what we're seeing in our time is people who are not able to exert

01:33:02.540 good godly judgment. What is the situation that we live in? We don't live in a time

01:33:07.300 where America is strong, loves itself,

01:33:10.240 promoting the true religion,

01:33:11.720 and where our people are thriving

01:33:14.040 both in their Christian faith and in their natural lives.

01:33:16.860 That's not what we live in, right?

01:33:18.440 And so to pretend otherwise and say,

01:33:20.320 well, we've got to be looking outward now

01:33:22.180 is completely missing the point.

01:33:23.800 Right, yeah.

01:33:24.720 Yeah, if America, you have to, again,

01:33:26.380 sons of Issachar, you got to know the times. 0.52

01:33:28.580 If right now, if America was at the top of its game,

01:33:31.920 right, and the majority of our nation

01:33:33.360 um was um faithfully not just professing but faithfully christian um and we weren't overrun

01:33:41.020 by dei and um um transgenderism and um all all these things and and you know with no protection

01:33:51.300 you know i mean these things are are changing now but even now there's they're slow what trump is

01:33:56.080 doing i'm incredibly grateful for but with these numbers and even projected increases over the

01:34:00.960 course of his administration um you're looking at two three maybe four million that are deported

01:34:06.720 um try 50 that's what we need about 50 million have to go back and um and so we're not even

01:34:14.920 close the point the point is praise god that we've had some positive developments i'm not going to

01:34:18.980 sit here and be a nothing ever happens bro um i believe that that god is a miraculous god and

01:34:24.200 things happen god god moves he does things praise god um but we need to admit that yeah so things

01:34:29.620 are happening but the things that are happening are small and they've been happening for two weeks

01:34:33.800 you know um before that though uh we we america has been at its lowest point a full-scale invasion

01:34:43.620 of our southern border um tax at the highest rates you could possibly imagine the average person

01:34:48.980 cannot buy a home um you know people are foregoing marriage partly because of being degenerate in

01:34:55.340 terms of their morals and ethics and abandoning christ and christian virtues but also in part

01:35:00.560 because they don't have any confidence that they could actually take a wife and provide for children

01:35:05.120 so that we've we are in a terrible so right now to say hey look out look look up and look out you 1.00

01:35:11.520 know look look over to the other side of the planet look at sub-saharan africans you know look 0.57

01:35:16.080 at um you know south americans and um no no right come come back and talk to me in 50 years 1.00

01:35:23.420 and we'll see how things are going uh for now what we need to do is um deport 50 million people 0.59

01:35:29.220 from the country uh cancel all foreign aid and real quick when i say all right it's like ron

01:35:36.620 swanson he's like give me all the eggs you have and you know the the waiter starts to walk away

01:35:42.220 he's like yes sir he's like wait stop he's like i'm concerned that what you heard me say

01:35:47.460 is bring me a lot of eggs but what i said was bring me all the eggs you have

01:35:53.080 right and so even trump god bless him i'm grateful for him but he's canceled all foreign aid

01:35:58.720 but it's really more like a lot of eggs instead of all the eggs you have

01:36:04.920 um because in this case all foreign aid of course takes exemption to israel and egypt

01:36:12.480 strangely enough and egypt um no like we need to uh we need to deport 50 million people we 0.89

01:36:17.780 need to lock down our borders we need to cancel all foreign aid that includes bibi 0.75

01:36:21.860 and um and we need to make motherhood great again we need to um to make houses affordable for our

01:36:30.080 own citizens again um we we need to uh to either abolish entirely i that that would be my choice

01:36:38.820 abolishing um uh the department of education we need to get our food to where it's not poisonous

01:36:45.380 we need like there's a lot of things to work on so right now um is simply just it's not the time

01:36:51.140 and i appreciate a coin of saying uh there's degrees of relation right you can have a brother

01:36:56.660 and a cousin once closer there's also degrees of need right right so the cousin might be dying

01:37:03.460 and the brother might be hurt you know so the cousin is further uh degree away in terms of

01:37:09.920 relation but higher uh closer degree of urgent in that instance in that instance and so in that

01:37:16.200 instance and i i appreciate the way aquinas put it he said and so therefore because the need is

01:37:20.300 greater you go with uh the greater need no he he leaves it open and says um and therefore

01:37:24.520 uh it requires prudence um because i think that's what it's been for americans is is we've just got

01:37:30.740 we relation closeness of relation is never even factored into the equation it's only been

01:37:35.660 degree of need and so americans historically because we've been prosperous well everybody

01:37:41.020 and generous and generous everybody seems to have more need than us so we've always preferred

01:37:46.180 someone else and we've done it to our detriment to where now um our america i mean that's why

01:37:53.760 you have a slogan that rings true with so many people make america great again meaning what

01:37:57.840 currently it's not that great america first because we've not been first right yeah let me

01:38:04.260 take that principle and apply it to one of the questions someone practically asked us get into

01:38:08.220 these questions so if you could go to the questions they someone asked what kind of

01:38:12.440 obligations do i have to my cousins i have a lot of them no birth control they're all catholic

01:38:17.040 praise god uh i think we do have an obligation to cousins they're the closest family that would

01:38:21.480 be outside of your siblings and that relationship so i have cousins and they're christians they

01:38:26.820 don't live near me but i can imagine a scenario where say my cousin he said i need a thousand

01:38:31.360 dollars to help make rent i i leave the phone call i hang up i'm about to turn it over and the

01:38:38.380 newest member from our church i see that he also thousand dollars short on rent this is maybe a

01:38:42.680 person i don't know very well it's not like we've been friends for years i think you could go either

01:38:46.960 way on that you two could correct me if i'm wrong but you have a family blood relation hey i need

01:38:52.380 some help you could even say they're in the body of the christ but they're not near you they're not

01:38:55.440 part of your church and then someone you're bound to by faith by christ i actually think you could

01:39:00.600 and not merely because it's not just like oh in a christian uganda you know a christian nigerian

01:39:05.860 princess you know in your local church right so exactly so it's not just uh the the spiritual

01:39:10.800 bind of brother in christ but also he is um he's not just a christian there's lots of christians

01:39:16.120 but this happens to be one of the few christians who i'm actually in in a local covenant community

01:39:21.900 be with us because that person also has siblings father mother grandparents cousins that could

01:39:27.740 potentially help them and and paul even in timothy he's kind of saying like the first line for widows

01:39:32.920 yeah right it's not the church it's her own it could even be a daughter that's crazy paul

01:39:37.940 literally right first 75 he says like does she not have any family right so her husband's died

01:39:42.740 but does she have any sons and you know her uncle or brother or this and then he even gets down to

01:39:47.460 a daughter and you're talking about first century world. And he's saying, even if he has a daughter

01:39:53.620 and she happens for whatever, because her husband is rich or whatever, that she can meet the needs

01:39:58.400 than she should. And he says, so that the church might not be burdened. The first line of defense

01:40:02.900 when it comes to tangible physical needs is not the church, certainly not the state, it is the

01:40:08.360 family. And so like all the time, like when, you know, pastorally we have benevolence, right? So

01:40:12.320 that's part of our budget is we have this many thousands of dollars that are set aside

01:40:17.020 for members of our church not visitors but those who are in covenant with us members of our church

01:40:22.400 who have a tangible physical need but the first question that we always ask as elders and deacons

01:40:27.460 as we're you know somebody comes with a need and we're you know and we're um ascertaining whether

01:40:31.840 or not that's a need that the church should meet the first question that we are always going to ask

01:40:35.180 is do you have any family yep they can help you have you have you reached out to your parents

01:40:40.860 do you have a brother do you have a sister do you have an uncle um and not just because we as a

01:40:46.260 church don't want to pay but because that's literally what the bible teaches right it's

01:40:49.920 what the bible teaches yeah and there are so i have uncles that i would for example help out

01:40:55.100 and then i have an uncle who's made a lot of bad choices in life and i would not help out

01:40:58.860 so you're weighing the reasons what is it for is it for rent is it for you know we don't really

01:41:04.360 know what he's going to use it for right there is no formula no ranking no well if it's a third

01:41:09.660 cousin and the need is above you have to be wise you have to be prudent and uh and that's how you

01:41:15.460 actually go about deciding i'm going to love this person at the expense not even at the expense but

01:41:19.680 i'm going to choose to prioritize this person this individual more right yeah and part of this is

01:41:26.440 why i am so grieved at the loss of christendom and specifically christian culture because some

01:41:33.840 of these assumptions and the way of thinking actually kind of get baked into your worldview

01:41:39.060 and your perspective and people don't always know why they make the decision they make

01:41:42.860 but a lot of times when you've been discipled well and and immersed in the word of god and

01:41:48.120 natural principles all of those things like it becomes somewhat clear like yeah we should do

01:41:54.740 this why i'm not really sure it's just what we as it's how we are as a people and that's there's

01:41:59.920 value in that there's great value in that right yeah um do us a favor we're going to take one or

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01:44:57.760 go ahead betzel burger betzel burger maybe um he says how do i rightly order where i live

01:45:06.140 i live in oklahoma where we are more free to build and live to the betterment of our children

01:45:11.600 but both my of both my wife's and my family are in michigan and want us to move back

01:45:19.700 that's a tough one that is a tough one what do you guys think when i was younger i was much more

01:45:25.460 of the move to a church i mean i did it but um i look back and realize i should have cared more

01:45:31.200 about roots and family than i did you're just not thinking in those categories when you don't have

01:45:36.200 kids and you're in your 20s but then you have kids and you see the relationship to their

01:45:40.200 grandparents and you live half a nation away and you realize that's that's not insignificant so

01:45:45.180 have you lived in like oklahoma for like eight months you work a remote job you would have

01:45:50.420 something you went back to michigan you could totally afford it is that the scenario a good

01:45:54.640 church like you haven't found a good church in oklahoma there is a church you could go back to

01:45:58.720 or is where they live in michigan a town of two thousand people there's no good church there's no

01:46:02.560 good work to do you have a flourishing job in oklahoma um those are the things that i would

01:46:07.120 weigh all like all else being equal what's the church situation what is the job situation you

01:46:12.720 have to work and then if all else is equal you could do both you could be in a good church you

01:46:17.680 you could be in a good place i do think family wins out um like those freedoms like it's

01:46:24.880 it's not insignificant the difference between michigan and oklahoma but of all else being

01:46:29.500 equal because like small towns you won't feel the same way like here in georgetown we don't feel the

01:46:34.520 same way you would in austin you don't see the same amount of pride flags you don't have the

01:46:37.660 same defunding of police so of all else being equal i know one's a blue state one's a red state

01:46:42.220 i do think family breaks the tie but again there are factors to say but i wouldn't be able to

01:46:47.340 really afford to live yeah or it'd be much tighter than you could say no we're going to stay here and

01:46:52.300 what we're going to do is work towards mom and dad moving towards us right exactly that that's what i

01:46:56.340 was going to say is um in that scenario so you have red state blue state uh but it's not just

01:47:00.440 like all right so i'm going to pick um a better state you know it's on the one hand i have a red

01:47:04.820 state on the other hand i have mom and dad i have family so state versus family um well then that

01:47:09.840 you know if you frame it like that it sounds like well you got to go with family um but i think the

01:47:14.200 Better framing is to acknowledge, no, it's family versus family.

01:47:18.000 Because by living in Oklahoma, you're going to have a much better life for your kids.

01:47:21.700 And your kids are a part of your family.

01:47:23.700 And in fact, your kids, in terms of the order of Morris and our natural affections and our order of loves and these kinds of things,

01:47:30.300 as a parent, as a father and a mother, you have a higher obligation under God,

01:47:35.040 a moral obligation to your children than you do your mother and father.

01:47:38.140 And I'm not making light of that.

01:47:39.860 You have a high obligation to mother and father, to honor father and mother.

01:47:42.980 It's not just a command for younger children while living underneath their father's roof.

01:47:47.280 But I believe that, you know, that the child in the childhood years living underneath your father's roof, you're called to obey your father and mother. 0.74

01:47:55.800 But I believe that even the grown child who has left and began his own household for this reason, a man, you know, should leave his father and mother and clean faster his wife.

01:48:03.980 So taking a wife, starting a family, starting your own household, you're now an adult, you're no longer called to implicitly obey your mother and father, but you are called for life, your whole life, to honor your father and mother. 0.62

01:48:17.480 So you have a high calling, high obligation to your mother and father, but you have even that much higher to your children and to your wife.

01:48:25.780 So it's wife first, then children, then parents.

01:48:30.700 And so don't think of it as, you know, it's Oklahoma versus mom and dad.

01:48:35.520 No, it's, in that scenario, it's children versus mom and dad.

01:48:39.880 It's like, well, but if we move to Michigan for mom and dad, of course, we're taking the children with us.

01:48:44.220 Yeah, you're taking the children to Michigan.

01:48:48.100 Right.

01:48:48.860 And that has to be considered.

01:48:50.080 And I'm not saying that, and therefore it's a clear no.

01:48:52.360 I'm not saying there's no scenario.

01:48:53.520 But that is politically, economically, and culturally, in all three of those levels, that is a worse life for your children.

01:49:04.840 Now, what are some of the pros?

01:49:07.380 Those are the cons.

01:49:08.160 Pros, the children get grandma and grandpa.

01:49:12.060 That's a better life.

01:49:13.300 That's not nothing.

01:49:14.060 That's not nothing.

01:49:14.960 Yeah.

01:49:15.540 We moved to Texas in large part for grandma and grandpa, both sides.

01:49:21.520 my wife was born and raised in california but her parents they saw the writing on the wall all the

01:49:26.000 way back in 2013 and they left and they moved to to uh to texas and i was born and raised in texas

01:49:32.740 so for me it was coming back home to my parents um and so we have we have two two sets of grandma

01:49:38.820 and grandpa and um and it's incredible it's incredible but back back to the final thing

01:49:44.760 you said just real briefly i think this is some good pastoral counsel and i've given it to a lot

01:49:48.660 of people um here's the reality practically and financially economically um in most scenarios

01:49:55.580 or not every scenario i understand if mom and dad right let's say you're in your 40s or 50s and mom

01:50:00.100 and dad you know are bedridden you know they're they're towards the end of their life they have

01:50:03.440 certain medical problems um there's there's insurance to be considered and who's their

01:50:07.640 primary doctor and they've been with them for you know a decade and a half and they need this you

01:50:11.520 know need that you know for this surgery with this physician who's only in this state you know and

01:50:16.240 i get that okay uh but put that aside unless there's extenuating circumstances like that

01:50:21.320 there may be but if there's not if your parents are in their 50s or 60s and they're reasonably

01:50:27.880 healthy yep not perfectly healthy but reasonably healthy um it is 10 times easier for grandma and

01:50:35.400 grandpa to move than for you okay grandma and grandpa are at the stage of life where their

01:50:41.580 children have left they don't they they don't have to work they're empty nesters they don't

01:50:45.920 they're not they don't have to factor in school education they don't have to um and for them like

01:50:52.040 so so my parents like i said i was born and raised in texas but we moved to georgetown because that's

01:50:57.960 where my wife's parents were and my parents were still you know a few hours away and they moved

01:51:03.900 here too so they're in georgetown also but the reason why they moved and they didn't just sit

01:51:08.840 there and arrogantly demand well why are you moving there and you you know you need to move

01:51:13.640 over you know four hours over here to us um they recognize no it's uh it's much more easy it's much

01:51:19.960 easier for us to move than you you have um you you have a wife and five kids and you're in in the

01:51:28.560 beginning stages of your vocation and career and trying to um to to save money and buying your

01:51:36.640 first home and like we've we've had a mortgage we we have a home we have equity we have um 20 30

01:51:43.180 you know 35 years of work experience and can transition with jobs or or even you know go

01:51:49.500 ahead and pull the trigger early and and part way not maybe entirely but a hybrid of partial

01:51:54.460 retirement where now i'm going to work as a consultant you know and i'm going to do remote

01:51:58.020 um the the 50s you know five-year-old the 60 65 year old has um those kinds of options of like

01:52:05.140 well, um, our house is almost paid off. We've got, you know, $300,000 of equity. Um, I could,

01:52:11.960 you know, with my work, my company, I've been there for 20 years and I could probably work

01:52:15.580 half time remotely and they would keep me as a consultant. I can start tapping early with my

01:52:20.140 retirement and pick up, you know, some things over here. Like they, um, the guy in his thirties

01:52:25.340 with five kids, who's trying to be obedient to the Lord and fruitful multiply. Um, but he's

01:52:30.160 millennial and and by the time he entered into manhood the world economically speaking was

01:52:37.100 destroyed and the the rug was ripped out from underneath his feet to put that expectation on

01:52:42.920 him is just not fair right it's just not fair so a lot of times it's like so not only is it like

01:52:48.120 you moving to michigan and that's a blue state it's a worse state than oklahoma it's also way

01:52:52.240 harder for you to move than mom and dad and if mom and dad can't because they're 85 and they can't

01:52:59.660 get out of bed and their physician happens to be i get that but if it's not that and it's mom and

01:53:05.720 dad won't even though um culturally politically and economically at every single level it would

01:53:12.740 be easier for them than it would be for you then um i know it's hard to hear but mom and dad um

01:53:19.460 mom and dad are forsaking you you're not forsaking them there's a difference responsibility too

01:53:24.520 i'm the firstborn i view it as my unique responsibility among my siblings to make

01:53:28.940 sure my parents are taken care of right the way my wife who's the third board woman doesn't i don't

01:53:33.500 feel that same responsibility through here through her and nor does she to care for her parents

01:53:38.320 because there are other siblings she has a firstborn her brother is firstborn so i feel that

01:53:42.740 for my parents and specifically would apply that but if you're like the fifth sixth son or daughter

01:53:48.020 you do have a different relationship to who's going to take care of mom and dad oh big brother's got a

01:53:52.840 big sister already has it and you maybe have a freedom or if you're the firstborn you do maybe

01:53:57.440 actually do it i know i actually have to go back they are aging and i need to take care of them and

01:54:01.100 see them into the afterlife the only thing i would add on to this is part of the calculus also is

01:54:07.860 am i putting my offspring in a situation where just the next generation is going to have to flee

01:54:14.820 possibly right literally thinking was thinking that one of the things one of the things for us

01:54:18.840 in texas and we don't know the future we don't know what's going to happen but our plan our goal

01:54:23.960 lord willing this would be a place that our children and our grandchildren would not have

01:54:27.500 to flee from so that they are not faced with the same decision that people in our time are having

01:54:32.740 to make um and and that being the case if they do have to flee from here then they would have had

01:54:37.400 to flee yeah from anywhere it's like the type in that case the whole ship's going down and this is

01:54:42.620 the last you're off del salvador where it's just a flourishing bitcoin economy the last thing i

01:54:47.020 was going to say with that is um i know that some people feel like well it's hypocritical

01:54:51.220 for me to leave, but then me not to want my children to leave. They'll see that we left

01:54:57.360 and then they're going to leave. Well, that's just your parenting. You have to explain as age

01:55:02.500 is appropriate why you left, what your goals are, what family are, what roots are. And if necessary,

01:55:08.560 you do need to show what it means to care for your parents as they age. But the principle is not

01:55:13.240 we're going to leave, they're going to leave. The principle is establishing roots with a community

01:55:19.380 in a place that's safe and prosperous for families to grow.

01:55:23.280 And if you're instructing your children in those biblical values,

01:55:27.260 I mean, you know, people still will move.

01:55:29.380 It's not like we're all just going to be locked into the same town

01:55:31.520 for the rest of, you know, 700 years.

01:55:33.940 But the likelihood, I think, is they'll catch the principle.

01:55:36.920 The principle is near family, near a church for a long time,

01:55:41.600 roots, connections, influence locally.

01:55:44.240 Right.

01:55:44.920 Last one.

01:55:46.120 Ben Wooding says,

01:55:47.620 how do you reconcile the order of morris with uh the inheritance or lack thereof uh the rights of

01:55:52.980 the wayward disobedient christian child rush duney actually has some really good things on this but

01:55:58.340 he argues i think persuasively and i think it is the biblical position um that the wayward

01:56:04.420 disobedient child who is unrepentant you don't make this decision um flippantly you know overnight

01:56:10.260 but um the wayward child who years have gone by and they remain disobedient and unrepentant

01:56:17.620 uh should be uh cut out of the will that they should not receive an inheritance um

01:56:25.940 uh and that would be for uh not because of personal offense or they disagree with you

01:56:31.060 or you know my oldest they got drunk one time you know what they got drunk one time right

01:56:35.700 right but it would be um in a in a christian perspective it would be uh as christian parents

01:56:41.700 It would be one of our sons or one of our daughters denied the faith and is no longer professing Christ, no longer a member in a Bible-preaching church, has denied the Christian faith.

01:56:55.800 We have pleaded with them and pursued them to no avail.

01:57:01.040 We have been patient and long-suffering. 1.00

01:57:03.220 It's been three years, but they still—they're not a Christian. 1.00

01:57:08.220 They have abandoned Christ, and in that case, they should be cut out of the will, because what we want is, in being fruitful and multiply, we want to promote godly offspring. 0.99

01:57:21.460 And so what you want to do is you want the wealth that you, by God's grace, have generated and accrued over a lifetime, you want that to go to your faithful godly offspring, and not to be wasted on those who have renounced Christ.

01:57:36.240 and you're still applying the ordo amoris because you're still praying for them more than any other

01:57:40.620 unbeliever that isn't saved and it actually is not loving to give someone 250 000 if they're a

01:57:46.180 drunkard and a drug user right so still to that person there's still a supreme amount of love

01:57:50.620 prayer and service care pleading right and then in love you're withholding because you would 0.86

01:57:56.600 destroy yourself with this you're still applying it and simply saying i can't give you this portion

01:58:01.320 because you by your actions have forfeited the right to it and if something happened god forbid

01:58:06.160 they got hit by a truck and they're in the hospital and life support and they can't afford

01:58:10.500 like that's we're talking about an inheritance that's different than right um a need meeting

01:58:15.660 giving an inheritance is different than meeting um an urgent practical physical need so there's

01:58:21.820 still your child if there's uh so yes you're praying for them pleading with them you're

01:58:26.600 you know paying for airfare to go and visit them even though they don't probably want to be

01:58:31.480 visited but just could i please take you out to dinner you know and i'll fly halfway across the

01:58:35.560 country just for an hour and a half, you know, just to see you and remind you that I love you

01:58:40.100 and talk to you about Jesus and, you know, those kinds of, and, and if you were, um, you know,

01:58:45.600 that's the person, you know, that, that, uh, the grown son or daughter, um, would be the person

01:58:50.440 that if they can't make rent, okay, I'm going to help you. I'm going to, um, but that's different

01:58:54.120 than meeting a tangible, urgent need versus giving them an equal inheritance to their siblings who

01:59:02.060 have been faithful to christ and faithful to you right that's it's unfair to um it's wrong it's

01:59:09.340 disrespectful a slap in the face to your other children who have actually honored their father

01:59:15.260 and mother which is the first commandment with a promise that it would go well with them

01:59:19.580 um but you're you're literally in a sense you're denying god's word you're so you've taught your

01:59:24.220 children hopefully as a christian parent their whole lives growing up when they were just little

01:59:28.700 and still in diapers that honor thy father and mother that things may go well with you and you

01:59:34.480 live a long life on the earth and then you're teaching them now that they're grown actually

01:59:38.400 you could dishonor father and mother and things will go equally well with you financially right

01:59:43.300 keep all the benefits yep because uh because we have four kids three of them love the lord and

01:59:48.300 have honored their father and mother and honored christ and one of them has spit in their mother

01:59:52.920 in Father's face and spit in Christ's face, but they're going to get the same degree of blessing

02:00:00.220 as you. So in that sense, you're actually undermining God's Word and setting a bad

02:00:06.840 example for your faithful children. Yeah. There's also the sense in the Old Testament where a lot

02:00:11.220 of the degeneracy, you're talking about someone just abandoning the faith, but to take it a step

02:00:16.400 further, a lot of the degeneracy that we see people engage in now would have been capital

02:00:22.160 offenses in the old testament right and so there's a sense where if your children willfully go down

02:00:26.960 some of those roads under god's system they actually they're they're more lost to you than

02:00:32.900 they are now like like prescription is they are executed and this is where the old school theonomist

02:00:37.760 not so much the modern ones but the old school reconstructionists like bonson and like um

02:00:42.680 rush duny especially i think he was he was the gold standard um this is where uh they thrived

02:00:48.620 And I 100% agree with them.

02:00:50.260 I think they were, like, Rusty only talks about, you know, whether it's, you know, what do you call it?

02:00:56.040 Not flogging, but, you know, beating.

02:00:58.780 Yeah, corporal punishment.

02:01:00.120 Corporal punishment.

02:01:00.900 Yeah, exactly.

02:01:01.540 Like, so we're not going to throw a guy in jail, right?

02:01:03.580 When you put a guy in jail, you're actually, you're punishing everybody else.

02:01:08.460 You're saying, this guy committed a crime.

02:01:10.640 So now all of you are punished by virtue of your tax dollars.

02:01:13.480 You all now have to give him three meals a day, room and board, you know, and a little bit of exercise time.

02:01:17.940 and also we'd like to teach them some arts and crafts

02:01:20.760 and basket weaving on Saturdays

02:01:23.080 and you, all of you who did not commit a crime

02:01:25.940 are gonna pay for it.

02:01:26.740 So you don't do that.

02:01:28.320 And also that doesn't rehabilitate.

02:01:30.840 You're basically saying,

02:01:31.800 we're gonna take this guy and for the next 20 years,

02:01:33.520 we're gonna put him with the worst people in all of society

02:01:35.960 so that they can all influence each other

02:01:37.680 and it just doesn't work.

02:01:40.440 But biblical punishment is there's corporal punishment

02:01:43.360 for lower infractions

02:01:45.320 and then there's restitution,

02:01:48.180 financial restitution for theft

02:01:49.740 and things like that

02:01:50.580 where you make the person whole,

02:01:52.280 the person that you ripped off

02:01:53.320 and then for everything else

02:01:55.360 that's severe, a severe crime,

02:01:58.980 if it's not something

02:02:00.140 where the restitution could be made, 1.00

02:02:02.460 you kill somebody's daughter, 0.99

02:02:04.580 you can't bring their daughter back. 0.98

02:02:06.580 There is no restitution,

02:02:07.880 not in this life.

02:02:09.020 Only God can make that whole

02:02:10.140 in the life to come

02:02:10.880 but in this life,

02:02:13.020 the deed is done.

02:02:14.960 So in those cases where it's not just theft

02:02:17.540 of material possessions, but things like murder,

02:02:21.000 there's no restitution and it's too severe

02:02:24.560 to treat it as corporal punishment

02:02:26.620 because corporal punishment, the goal is rehabilitation,

02:02:29.580 to bring that person back as a functioning member of society.

02:02:32.540 But at that point, the person has forfeited their own life.

02:02:36.320 And so you're absolutely right, Michael,

02:02:38.320 that many of the cases, and Rush Judy makes that argument,

02:02:41.640 but many of the cases of the type of person,

02:02:43.620 it's not just a child that messed up or a child who has a bad season for a season is rebellious

02:02:48.600 you know which no the type of child that should be cut out of your will is the type of child that

02:02:54.720 if we were a biblical society wouldn't currently uh be in your will because they'd be dead

02:02:58.940 their will would actually go into play that's right because they would be dead so all right

02:03:05.280 thank you guys for tuning in and lord willing we will see you again on wednesday

02:03:13.620 We'll be right back.

The NXR Podcast - February 03, 2025

THE LIVESTREAM - JD Vance, Tucker Carlson, & The Ordo Amoris

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