The NXR Podcast - THE LIVESTREAM - Joel Berry vs. The Founding Fathers？

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00:00:27 Are all men really created equal?

00:00:28 should this statement be the sole foundation and basis for our entire nation, these United States

00:00:35 of America? This conversation has been going on for quite some time, but it resurfaced in a

00:00:41 profound way, you could say, from a tweet by a known liberal named Joel Berry. Joel Berry tweeted

00:00:48 out this. He said, the main target of the post-liberal right, the new ascendant right,

00:00:52 whatever you want to call it, is not against the post-war consensus, but rather it's their

00:00:58 opposition to this sentence right here and then he has a screenshot from the declaration of

00:01:03 independence where he circles the sentence that all men are created equal he goes on in his tweet

00:01:09 by saying they think the new ascendant right they think that the founding of america was poisoned

00:01:14 by radical egalitarian enlightenment thinking and that it must be completely overturned their goal

00:01:21 is to impose hierarchies from the top down by the will of a virtuous sovereign those hierarchies

00:01:26 could be based on blood or birth or religion or whatever else they might cook up they never quite

00:01:31 give details about how all this will work skipping down a little bit in his long tweet he says you

00:01:38 can agree or disagree with the post-liberal right but we have to be honest this movement is

00:01:45 fundamentally opposed to a core tenant of the american founding it wants a different country

00:01:51 than the founders established this is what we're going to be addressing today in our episode

00:01:56 Are All Men Really Created Equal? What did the founders mean by this? Is Jefferson a credible

00:02:02 source for the American founding? Should we look to his words above even the words of scripture?

00:02:08 This is our topic for today. Tune in now.

00:02:19 All right, we're back. We are talking about all men being created equal. Yeah, we've all been

00:02:25 out and about doing various things. All three of us are back in the studio now. This is the topic

00:02:30 for today. What did the founders mean when they said all men are created equal? Were they right,

00:02:36 but meaning it in a more narrow sense in the way it's been reinterpreted today? Or did they

00:02:42 actually mean it in this broad sense and they were simply wrong? This is going to be the topic

00:02:47 of discussion. But one of the things that we wanted to use to start off this discussion is

00:02:52 a quote from, show me the guy, it's Jack Rakove, who was a Stanford historian and Pulitzer Prize

00:03:03 winner. And he is, just for the record, he's a leftist. He's a liberal. And so this is somebody,

00:03:10 even from the liberal side of the aisle, acknowledging that what Jefferson was writing

00:03:17 was not intended in the way that it's been interpreted by many in our country today.

00:03:22 Here's the quote. He says, when Jefferson wrote, all men are created equal in the preamble to the declaration, he was not talking about individual equality. What he really meant was that the American colonist as a people had the same rights of self-government as other peoples, and hence they could declare independence, create new governments, and assume their separate but equal station among other nations.

00:03:47 But after the revolution succeeded, Americans began reading that famous phrase another way.

00:03:53 It now became a statement of individual equality that everyone and every member of a deprived group could claim for himself or herself.

00:04:03 With each passing generation, our notion of who that statement covers has expanded.

00:04:10 Let's continue. Or is that it? That's the end of it.

00:04:12 Okay, that's the end of it. So let's discuss. I think he's right.

00:04:15 I think that what the founders had in mind was more meant to be more narrowly applied.

00:04:21 And at the end of the day, if if all men being equal means equal potential, I think Joel

00:04:26 Barry, to give him credit, you know, there's there's a sliding scale of liberalism.

00:04:30 There's there's the left side of the aisle and the right side.

00:04:34 Right.

00:04:34 So there's there's, you know, liberal lefts and liberal rights.

00:04:38 And Joel Barry would be on the right side, but he is still a liberal.

00:04:42 And so for him, I think he would say, well, equality isn't equity. It's not forced equality of outcome. But I think he would still hold to the idea that equality means at least equal opportunity or equal potential.

00:04:56 But if that is the view, in my assessment, if that's the view that we're saying, not even just among Americans, but the whole entire world, every nation on the planet, that every single out of 8.2 billion people, that they all have equal opportunity, that they all have equal potential, then I think as a nation, we are absolutely cooked.

00:05:17 That's my opinion.

00:05:18 The context here matters so much.

00:05:19 There's almost any statement.

00:05:21 If you rip it out of the context in which the original author, the original speaker intended to do,

00:05:26 you could do terrible things.

00:05:27 I think of Jesus even in John when he says,

00:05:29 when the resurrection comes, those who have done good will go on to the resurrection of life,

00:05:33 and those who have done evil on to death.

00:05:35 Now, the context is the rest of Scripture, the writings of St. Paul, the other things that Jesus has said.

00:05:40 You could take it, though, in isolation and say,

00:05:42 see, look, those who do good, those who behave, works righteousness, they go on to life,

00:05:47 and the rest go on to death.

00:05:49 Almost anything.

00:05:50 If you take it out of its context,

00:05:51 you can do terrible, terrible things.

00:05:54 And you have this guise where you're saying,

00:05:55 well, Jesus said it.

00:05:56 Well, George Washington said it.

00:05:58 Well, Jefferson said it.

00:05:59 Surely this is what they meant.

00:06:00 But when you zoom in, you say,

00:06:02 well, hang on a second.

00:06:02 Here's the specific thing they were responding to.

00:06:05 I told my son, you can have a cookie on Tuesday.

00:06:07 And he came up to me on Thursday and said,

00:06:09 but dad, you said I could have a cookie.

00:06:11 I did say that, but he's using it

00:06:13 and actually manipulating it to an end

00:06:14 that I don't want him to have.

00:06:16 When the American Revolution is going on,

00:06:18 when the stirrings of the Declaration of Independence are happening,

00:06:22 you have to remember that the French Revolution is in full swing.

00:06:25 And so there's certainly some influence going on there.

00:06:27 So you have across the pond, you have the French Revolution.

00:06:30 And the bent there is towards liberty, equality, and fraternity.

00:06:34 It's definitely the worst version of those two revolutions.

00:06:36 But what's going on in America is that you're looking at decades

00:06:40 where the American colonists have felt that the king has not been

00:06:43 the king that he's supposed to be to them.

00:06:45 They have no representation in Parliament.

00:06:47 So what's happening is Parliament is levying taxes, Parliament's making laws, or sometimes even Parliament will make good laws, and the king is either not letting the laws pass, what he was doing sometimes was adjourning Parliament and adjourning the legislators, so they couldn't actually go ahead and enact the rules that the colonists had wanted.

00:07:04 And so for decades, the colonists, very respectfully, had been appealing to King George and saying,

00:07:10 King, we are your subjects.

00:07:12 We're subjects of the crown.

00:07:14 And you, over and over and over and over again, have deprived us of the rights that we have as British citizens.

00:07:20 This is, I mean, you go back to Rome, you go back to Greece.

00:07:23 Being a citizen has rights to it.

00:07:25 But like, what is the point of being a citizen?

00:07:27 You could have to go fight and die for your country.

00:07:29 You pay taxes.

00:07:30 And what do you get out of it?

00:07:32 Nothing.

00:07:33 There's no point in it.

00:07:34 So they're saying, we're subject to the king.

00:07:36 We're loyal to the king.

00:07:37 And you are not returning to us as Englishmen the rights that we have to be represented in our own government, to make our own laws, to decide how to run our economy, to set our own tax levels.

00:07:49 And this builds up and this builds up.

00:07:50 And I'm actually going to go not to the Declaration first, but to 1774, the Declaration and Resolves of the First Continental Congress.

00:07:57 And I want you to notice the more narrow scope of this before we compare it in a moment to the Declaration of Independence.

00:08:03 So 1774, two years before 1776, the Declaration of Independence, they write this.

00:08:08 And this is in the resolves here of this First Continental Congress.

00:08:12 The inhabitants of the English colonies in North America by the immutable laws of nature,

00:08:17 the principles of the English Constitution and the several charters or compacts have the following rights,

00:08:22 life, liberty, and property.

00:08:24 And you're going to see this phrase show up again, but notice where they're rooting it.

00:08:27 Just two years prior, we're Englishmen.

00:08:30 We have these rights.

00:08:31 Wait, they don't say that the inhabitants of Haiti on the other side of the planet by immutable laws of nature and the principles of some global government.

00:08:45 No, that's not what they're talking about.

00:08:47 I'm confused. I don't see it anywhere.

00:08:48 Yeah, I feel like this is like at the heart of even you talk about originalism in the interpretation of the Constitution.

00:08:55 the famous Justice Antonin Scalia often talked about, you know, I think specifically with the

00:09:01 First Amendment of the Constitution where it says, you know, the state shall have no established

00:09:05 religion. And the heart of actually interpreting that according to the founders and the way they

00:09:13 intended it is going back and looking at the historical context and saying, oh, well, there

00:09:17 were actually constitutions at the time, state constitutions that did enforce a religion. And so

00:09:24 well, clearly they didn't mean what the modern liberal justice thinks they meant

00:09:28 because they didn't say anything about those things.

00:09:30 Similarly, if you talk about natural rights and life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness,

00:09:37 clearly they didn't mean what the modern liberal means when they say that

00:09:40 because they lived in a society of hierarchy.

00:09:44 You had race-based hierarchy.

00:09:45 You had male-privileged hierarchy.

00:09:47 You had property-owning men being higher in the socials.

00:09:51 At the time, only about 3% to 5% of British citizens could vote.

00:09:55 So over in Britain, there was a form of voting where you voted for your representatives.

00:10:00 Only 3% to 5% men.

00:10:01 They were restricted, depended on the province.

00:10:03 But you had to have certain income from like rental lands.

00:10:05 You had to be a certain lord. 1.00

00:10:07 So no women could vote whatsoever, based.

00:10:09 But then only about 95% of men also couldn't vote. 0.51

00:10:16 And none of that was like, and there's a grievance here because there's poor men working the land that don't have the right to vote.

00:10:21 said they never right right so so and that's a yeah exactly so that's that gives us a clue here

00:10:27 that they're actually not it's not a rejection of hierarchy that we're looking at here when they say

00:10:31 all men are created equal they're they're simply saying that men have equal claims to life liberty

00:10:37 and the pursuit of happiness but the way that that actually manifests in any given civilization is

00:10:41 going to be unequal actually because you're going to have more virtuous men higher moral character

00:10:46 you're going to have uh different wealth and social status and all of those things are going

00:10:49 to manifest in the society. So I actually think in my interpretation of all men are created equal

00:10:53 is that it was a very narrow, strict sense. What they were saying was we are rejecting the natural

00:11:00 aristocracy of Britain. We actually believe that we as men, we as the hierarchy, you could say the

00:11:08 higher social status men here in the English colonies, we actually find ourselves suitable

00:11:12 to govern ourselves. And real quick, flesh that out. When you say the natural hierarchy of Great

00:11:16 britain uh because we were talking about this before we started recording you're talking about

00:11:20 uh what's hereditary exactly this idea that like nobility hereditary titles strictly by blood

00:11:26 yep uh restrained very very uh clearly restrained to certain families and so you could have somebody

00:11:33 else outside of one of these noble families that's actually um more intelligent uh that's

00:11:39 actually more virtuous you know all all these ways in in every conceivable category a better

00:11:44 englishman a better a better churchman a better christian man but also uh strictly speaking a

00:11:51 better englishman um who would actually be more fit for the good of everybody including the noble

00:11:56 families um to to have more say in the you know in in the direction of the country uh right and

00:12:04 but he would be um he would be discluded from that uh by virtue of of just not being born into

00:12:12 one of these hereditary, you know, noble families. And that's kind of, you have to read history

00:12:16 within history, within the context. And that's a lot of what they were bucking up against. They

00:12:21 were saying, no, no, all men are created equal. We believe that we, you know, colonialists,

00:12:30 we have an equal right to determine the direction of these colonies here in America and what's

00:12:38 going on we're here and we're we've been placed here by providence we're intelligent we're virtuous

00:12:43 and uh and the idea that we wouldn't have a say is we think is is wrong we think that that's

00:12:50 actually immoral they were not they were not saying um and we think that the indigenous you

00:12:56 know um indian tribes um also that they should have an equal say and we think that um the black 0.57

00:13:02 slaves should have an equal say we think five-year-old children should have an equal say 0.75

00:13:06 And we think our wives should have an equal. They weren't saying that. Yeah, that's that's not the

00:13:10 context. Right. Yeah. And I would say, like, one of the dangers, obviously, of an aristocracy is

00:13:15 that it's ossification, which is to say that the men with the hereditary, I don't even know if they

00:13:21 would necessarily rebuke hereditary nobility. But but what had happened in Britain specifically,

00:13:27 they thought, was that that those people had no longer served the the good of the people. Right.

00:13:33 And so, and obviously in the declaration, you're, you see all of these grievances, they're listing and saying the King didn't do this. The King hasn't done 27 specific grievances, right? Like a huge list. Yeah. It's, it's, but, but then they go on to say after the grievances about toward the King, they then say, and we've even appealed to our fellow British, you know, our colleagues, so to speak in Britain, referring to the members of parliament.

00:14:00 And so you can think about the members of parliament being those being hereditary nobility and saying, look, look at all of the ways that we are not on equal footing with you.

00:14:09 Let me read that section because it's profound.

00:14:11 Towards the end of the declaration, they say, nor have we been wanting in attentions to our British brethren.

00:14:16 They call them their brothers.

00:14:17 We have warned them from time to time of the attempts by their legislator to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us.

00:14:24 We've reminded them of the circumstances of our immigration settlement here.

00:14:27 we've appealed to their native justice and magnanimity and have conjured them by the ties

00:14:31 of our common kindred like our common kindred we're of you we're englishmen like you the ties

00:14:37 of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations that is of the king which would inevitably

00:14:42 interrupt our connections and correspondence profoundly said we've even appealed to the

00:14:46 british common people don't you see how the king is treating us yep yeah so it's yeah it's it's

00:14:53 but this is why it's important to actually go back because you see like a phrase like all men

00:14:58 are created equal this has been reinterpreted from my assessment twice in American history

00:15:03 once was the civil rights era where this was reinterpreted to include racial equality

00:15:07 and then you see that happen again with in the early 20th centuries and early 1900s with women

00:15:15 and the same phrase again is reinterpreted to say well actually this also extends to women

00:15:19 And so we just have to recognize, and Joel, you've said this before, but in some sense, we are all liberal.

00:15:26 Because the way that we've been educated in American history is post these reinterpretations.

00:15:32 And so we are clouded if we go back to the Declaration and say, this is what this phrase means.

00:15:39 When in reality, the definitions of the words have changed.

00:15:42 And in some ways, it's been done deceitfully.

00:15:46 They've been changed.

00:15:47 So we have to go around that.

00:15:50 We can't use that lens to interpret.

00:15:52 We have to go to the founders, in the time, in the place, and realize.

00:15:55 Authorial intent.

00:15:56 What do they mean?

00:15:57 Exactly.

00:15:57 It's the same thing that we do when we're exegeting scripture.

00:16:00 We don't exegete scripture through the lens of our modern sensibilities.

00:16:05 But instead, what we try to do is we, you know, it's even a part of our hermeneutic.

00:16:09 I mean, even somebody like John MacArthur would have argued, he would have said, you know,

00:16:13 there needs to be a grammatical, historical, literal hermeneutic, right? So he's going to

00:16:20 read certain passages in light of how the human author would have intended them, how he would

00:16:27 have thought, how the people, the immediate human audience that is going to be receiving these

00:16:32 sacred texts, how they would have understood and interpreted them. And, you know, and that's part

00:16:37 of the way that we interpret things. That's the way that we understand the intent, the authorial

00:16:43 intent, original intent of what's written is we try to put ourselves in the shoes of those who

00:16:48 were actually writing it and those who would have been reading it and how that it would have been

00:16:52 interpreted by those people at the time. Right. We have some good tweets where we'll hit here in

00:16:58 the second segment. There's a really good one. Yeah. Yep. But I do want to read actually the

00:17:01 whole context that surrounds that phrase, something Joel Berry didn't actually do. He didn't

00:17:05 kind of put it in where it kind of fits within the declaration and the preamble. So I'm going to read

00:17:09 hear the first couple paragraphs of the declaration, and then we'll go ahead and get into our second

00:17:13 segment. The unanimous declaration of the 13 United States of America, when in the course

00:17:18 of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which

00:17:23 have connected them with one another, and to assume among the powers of earth. Listen to this,

00:17:27 because this is actually the first mention of equality in the declaration. To assume among

00:17:31 the powers of the earth the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's

00:17:37 god entitle them they say a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires they kind of give

00:17:41 their reasons for it so right off the bat they're saying we're dissolving these political bans

00:17:45 and we're assuming with great britain with great britain we're assuming the separate and equal

00:17:49 stations that god through nature has established to us which again right there a separate nation

00:17:55 and we believe that we have the right to um to be a political a distinct separate political body

00:18:02 um a nation a country uh just like england does yep and remember britain had colonized most of

00:18:08 the world at this point so i don't think if you ask them and so what you mean with this is every

00:18:12 colony that's under british rule they should do the same thing like we want our separate and equal

00:18:16 station and we want ours and we want ours no they're they're saying we particular as englishmen

00:18:22 we're the ones that are capable of assuming because we come from the same stock we are we

00:18:27 are brits we are englishmen and they say we hold these truths to be self-evident so it's self-evident

00:18:33 that we're british men that all men are created equal i think the best way to frame it we'll get

00:18:38 into the second one is that all men like us are created equal and that we are endowed by our by

00:18:43 their creator with certain unalienable rights that among these are life liberty and the pursuit of

00:18:47 happiness and that to secure these rights governments are instituted among men deriving

00:18:51 their just powers from the consent of the governed that whenever any form of government becomes

00:18:55 destructive to these ends. It is the right of the people to abolish, to alter or to abolish it.

00:19:01 And so this whole preamble is building up again to the grievances, 27 grievances from King George.

00:19:06 They're saying we're assuming these separate stations and we hold that it's self-evident

00:19:09 that men like us are equal and have these rights inherently. And that when a government

00:19:15 despotically for decades on end, taxes and usurps, they were taking American citizens

00:19:22 that were on trial, they were taking them overseas

00:19:24 to stand trial in Britain.

00:19:26 So they did a crime here and they were going to charge them

00:19:28 and they had to stand in front of a jury of Britishmen

00:19:30 an ocean away.

00:19:32 So they're transported for three months across the ocean

00:19:34 and it's over and over and over again,

00:19:36 all these grievances.

00:19:37 And so they say it is the right of a people

00:19:39 when they're capable of self-government

00:19:41 to take the government that's destructive to their rights

00:19:44 of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness

00:19:46 and to alter or to abolish it.

00:19:48 Not lightly, they say not lightly, not quickly

00:19:50 because you could get into something worse.

00:19:52 But again, when it's men like us, capable of self-government, equal, forged by the same Christian religion.

00:19:58 I think of John Jay and the Federalist Papers, coming from the same nation, same origin, speaking the same language, worshiping the same God, shaped by the same experience.

00:20:07 We have these rights and we're going to take it up.

00:20:09 Right. And in addition to that, they also, they were not naive or entitled.

00:20:15 They recognized that to secure this liberty for themselves, that it was going to be costly, that they were going to have to fight for it.

00:20:24 So they didn't just send the Declaration of Independence as, you know, a bluff.

00:20:28 They sent it and they were prepared to risk life and limb in order to back it up.

00:20:33 They knew that it would very likely.

00:20:34 They pledged their sacred honor, they say.

00:20:36 Yes.

00:20:36 They knew that it would require their very lives.

00:20:40 They knew that it would mean war.

00:20:42 Their declaration of independence was a declaration of war against the crown, and they were aware of this.

00:20:49 And so just what you read from the Declaration of Independence, just to quote it again, that line where it says,

00:20:55 that whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it

00:21:04 and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing

00:21:09 its powers in such form as to them shall seem most likely to affect their safety and happiness.

00:21:15 I look at that and I think, I mean, even if you want to broadly apply that to every single person

00:21:22 on the planet, you know, or all different kinds of peoples and ethnicities and national origins

00:21:29 within our country, the United States, well, then what that would mean is that for citizens

00:21:35 within the United States, that they have a right if they determine that our government,

00:21:42 our national government is destructive towards just ends and moral ends, then it would be their

00:21:48 right to alter or abolish that government. And so I guess what I would say is, okay, well then,

00:21:57 you know, in true Texas fashion, come and take it, you know, go ahead and, uh, go ahead and try

00:22:01 like, okay. So you, you're equal in the sense that, uh, and, and again, this is a broader reading

00:22:06 than what I think the founders intended, but even if you're going to apply it in this broad

00:22:10 brush, you know, manner, then, okay. Then, um, this minority group, you know, um, Indians,

00:22:16 you know, or Somalians or whatever, who, you know, who live in America, uh, you, you know,

00:22:21 Ilhan Omar and all of her cronies, you think that America is unjust and that it's unfair and all 0.76

00:22:26 these things great so so then you have the right to do what the um the colonists did um you have 0.98

00:22:33 the right to risk life and limb upon your honor to fight uh the government of the united states

00:22:39 and to set up your own little chat to give you reparations or something yeah whatever you know

00:22:44 um so so go ahead and do that um that because that's what the founders did the founders weren't

00:22:50 just crybabies they they actually um at the cost of their lives blood sweat and tears um they fought

00:22:57 for their freedom they fought for their freedom which is which is actually an indication uh that

00:23:02 they they found they thought they were suitable to not only uh fight for their freedom but to

00:23:08 then have their freedom as well right that becomes important and obviously like the historian we have

00:23:14 to acknowledge this the historian is right when they say that our founders were influenced by

00:23:18 Enlightenment thinking. Yeah, it's true. Point number one, not all of the Enlightenment was bad,

00:23:22 but certainly when you read this, you read this idea that the power of government is derived from

00:23:29 the consent of the government. This is social contract theory. This is Locke and Hobbes and

00:23:34 these Enlightenment thinkers. It's liberalism. Yeah. So in one sense, it is liberalism. But

00:23:39 the important thing to note is that even this itself is, this is built on the bedrock of English

00:23:46 common law. So even this isn't a universal appeal. This is an appeal to say, we live in a

00:23:53 civilization, in a society where this can be true. Why? Because the men are of virtue. They're of

00:23:59 moral character. They're of intelligence, gifting to be able to govern themselves. That is not true

00:24:05 everywhere in the world. And they're Christian. Yep. They're Christian men. They're moral men. 0.97

00:24:10 Let's close with the quote, just because it's a good reminder. This is, again, someone Stanford

00:24:14 historian polter prize winner listen again what he says we've gone through the declaration when

00:24:18 jefferson wrote all men are created equal in the preamble of the declaration he was not talking

00:24:23 about individual quality what he really meant was that the american colonists as a people had the

00:24:28 same rights of self-governance as other people and hence could declare independence great new

00:24:32 governments and assume they're separate and equal station among the nations i think he's completely

00:24:36 correct yep and that's a liberal and that's yeah yeah he's acknowledging he's like yep that's the

00:24:41 founding. This is the founding. Okay, let's go to our first commercial break and then we're going

00:24:44 to come back and read some more tweets. The danger of centralized power is often represented by the

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00:28:56 Okay, I want to read a tweet from Christian Hyens.

00:28:59 Christian Hyens actually retweeted Joel Berry and the tweet that we started off the episode with,

00:29:06 where Joel Berry is saying, all men are created equal.

00:29:08 And that means every single person has at least potential equality.

00:29:15 and uh and that's not just every person in our nation but that's every person in the entire

00:29:19 world right that's the way that joel barry interprets it and it's not just that joel barry

00:29:23 is interpreting that way it'd be one thing um he could have that interpretation i think it's wrong

00:29:28 but he could have that interpretation the biggest problem is not the way he interprets it uh but

00:29:32 it's the intellectual dishonesty all right so for him to say hey this is the way i interpret it and

00:29:37 this is the way that others have interpreted for the past few decades since the civil rights act

00:29:41 and it's a modern interpretation it's a very novel and very liberal interpretation and I

00:29:48 recognize that I am detouring from the founders that would be different right we'd be like all

00:29:53 right you know Joel Berry is is admitting you know I am a conservative liberal and and of a

00:30:00 more modern 20th century liberal framework than than the founders but that's not what he's saying

00:30:05 he's he's imputing that and saying my very modern interpretation of every single person on the

00:30:11 planet being equal is exactly what the founders meant when they talk about equality. So this is

00:30:17 Christian Hyens, who's retweeting Joel Berry and countering that idea. Here's the tweet.

00:30:22 The idea that all men are created equal is so preposterous that it hardly even merits refutation.

00:30:29 Every day with our own two eyes, all of us see how absurd this claim is. Some people are smarter

00:30:36 than others. Some are stronger. Others are taller, more beautiful, more athletic, etc. Some people

00:30:41 discover the theory of general relativity or Schrodinger equation, while others are incapable

00:30:49 of dressing themselves in the morning or tying their own shoes. The founding fathers were

00:30:55 categorically wrong when they wrote this line into the Declaration of Independence, and not even they

00:31:00 themselves believed it. It's the ultimate embodiment of liberal enlightenment thinking

00:31:06 that sounds wonderfully elegant and makes you feel good for even uttering it, until this claim

00:31:12 runs headfirst into the brick wall of reality. Now, with all that being said, I understand why

00:31:19 Joel, and this is not me, but Joel Berry, takes the position that he does. He believes, not without

00:31:25 evidence that it is dangerous to admit that no one among us is created equally. But that danger

00:31:32 is not hand-waved away simply by asserting something that makes you feel good while being

00:31:39 fundamentally false, parentheses, and which every single person alive understands to be false deep

00:31:47 down inside, close parentheses. All right, continuing now, it's a long tweet, almost done.

00:31:51 they go on and say the greater danger lies in pretending that we do not already have hierarchies

00:31:59 being imposed from above what do you think we have now there's an entire ruling class of liberal

00:32:05 elite already imposed upon us in every institution you can imagine both inside and outside of

00:32:13 government the very thing Joel Berry fears has already come to pass and this artificial hierarchy

00:32:20 crushes dissent far more ruthlessly than kings could ever imagine, right? The monarch, the king

00:32:26 could only dream of having the degree of power over every private citizen that our elites and

00:32:32 oligarchies have in America right now today. Continuing, they also wield far more power,

00:32:39 our current liberal elites, far more power than any king could ever wield. These are the same

00:32:44 people who have the power to tell us that urinals are art, that words are violence while actual

00:32:51 violence is the language of the oppressed, that men can become women, and that mutilating children

00:32:57 or killing them in the womb constitutes health care. The very tyranny that Joel Berry keeps

00:33:06 worrying about, the post-liberal right imposing, has already happened to us. The problem is that

00:33:13 this tyranny cloaks itself in the same moralistic language that Joel just accepts without any

00:33:19 pushback. And so he cannot condemn it as forcefully as he condemns this hypothetical

00:33:25 post-liberal future without admitting that there is a fatal flaw in his own ideology.

00:33:32 All right, that's the tweet. I think it's a banger. I retweeted it. I thought it was really

00:33:36 helpful. What do you guys think? Yeah, I really like it. He's kind of espousing a,

00:33:41 not a third way but it is a third position so we've talked about you could take the idea all

00:33:45 men are created equal and on its face that's preposterous that would be kind of joel's view

00:33:49 and we espoused a view where all men are created equal that is men like us are equal and a capable

00:33:54 self-governance and like us being the founders speaking of themselves and those who are part of

00:33:59 this european christian men were capable of self-governance right and christian here is he's

00:34:02 articulating a third way and there is merit to it like we have to be honest um one of the things

00:34:07 that makes america incredible like different countries have taken our constitution they've

00:34:11 modeled it i think of liberia which was a colony of freed slaves and none of them have come close

00:34:15 to the success that america has had and so it's tempting sometimes to say well what makes america

00:34:20 so great are all men are created equal and the freedoms and you know the first amendment of free

00:34:26 speech i actually think in many ways it was the people that have made america great there's

00:34:30 advantages we have as far as waterways for one an ocean separates us from people that would attack

00:34:34 us so there's just natural advantages we have but if we're honest it's not necessarily the words on

00:34:39 paper that have made america what it is although those help to some degree but it's been the people

00:34:44 but when the words on paper are actually becoming destructive to the end of the people saying hey

00:34:50 we want to be free from the tyranny of the oligarchs we want to be free from globalism we want a border

00:34:55 that's closed and the words that they themselves didn't even make america great in and of itself

00:34:59 in the first place are the the opposition are the barrier to it they're used weaponized against us

00:35:05 we can stand up and say hey this actually wasn't said the best way and it's being used against us

00:35:10 now and i think it's honoring to the fathers we have a commandment to honor our fathers and if

00:35:15 you are an american george washington and jefferson to a degree they are men that are owed

00:35:20 your respect they're owed a certain level of deference but even in that you can say and still

00:35:25 i think the way this is articulated here has now been weaponized they couldn't have seen it then

00:35:29 it's being weaponized in a way we would have never anticipated and if i was you know king

00:35:33 for a day and i was to rewrite it i don't think this is the way i say it i think that's a totally

00:35:37 valid way to approach it yeah i agree i think there's a sense in which you could recognize that

00:35:41 the declaration was actually a political document so that and what happens in politics there's

00:35:46 always a little bit of gamesmanship and and saying hey i want to appeal i want to appeal

00:35:50 to emotion i want to appeal to authority and there's all sorts of fallacies that that are

00:35:54 used in political sort of campaigns, if you will.

00:35:58 And I think that you could at least sympathize

00:36:00 with the idea that this is no different, 0.96

00:36:02 that them saying all men are created equal

00:36:03 is actually more or less an emotional appeal.

00:36:05 What they're saying is we're equal to you.

00:36:07 Exactly.

00:36:07 They're not thinking about Somalia 250 years later.

00:36:10 They're not thinking about Haiti.

00:36:12 All men are created equal.

00:36:14 What's the argument?

00:36:15 What are they trying to accomplish?

00:36:17 They're saying equal to you, Great Britain.

00:36:19 We are equal to you.

00:36:21 we're just as much fit to govern ourselves as, as being, you know, tyrannically governed

00:36:27 by you from the other side of the world. Yep. That's the context. Yeah. So you have like,

00:36:33 you have one, one, you have one hand, the idea that they actually did mean it, but they meant

00:36:37 it in this strict narrow sense. And that's actually the position that I think you just

00:36:41 articulated, but I also, also would probably go there as well. But you also have this other sense

00:36:45 in which like, it's completely plausible. They didn't mean it at all. And it was simply them,

00:36:49 them trying to appeal to the populace to the populace over in britain to say hey look we have

00:36:55 this grand moral vision for humanity and uh buy in because it's because it does have this allure

00:37:01 to it of like all men are created equal it feels egalitarian it feels it feels great um and uh and

00:37:07 so you i you can at least say that it's plausible but again i go back to this idea that they actually

00:37:12 meant it they were referring to themselves you can imagine and i think this is true um christian

00:37:17 Heinz actually articulates is this idea of like the post-level right or the dissident right looking

00:37:21 at our our leaders our quote-unquote elite and saying we're better men than them right these

00:37:26 men are adulterous men these men are licentious these men uh have no honor um and we look at it

00:37:32 and say we think we could govern ourselves better we know that to be true and so we might also have

00:37:38 this conception that um we as we were we could all gather in a building and we'd speak amongst

00:37:43 ourselves and say look men we have an equal right to to the claim of power as they do right and uh

00:37:50 and that in that strict narrow sense it would be true it would be true that we are equal to them

00:37:54 in our capability to govern ourselves right right as i was listening to the declaration this week i

00:38:00 listened to it a bunch of times on repeat and studying it i kind of felt the need for like a

00:38:03 new one you know like for for men to say hey here's the the tyranny you've subjected us to

00:38:08 you've brought foreigners like one of the uh one of the complaints against king george you've opened

00:38:13 us up to foreigners as you've refused to pass laws, refused to protect us. We could easily come 0.99

00:38:18 up with 27 points that our government, to your point, Antonio, has done the same thing as we as

00:38:23 Americans and as men could say, we have decided that this form of government has become destructive

00:38:28 to it ends. And we, not lightly, not candidly, we're going to take up and we're going to establish

00:38:33 a new form that actually is conducive to them. Yeah. You know, people like James Lindsay or

00:38:39 joel berry you know they use uh the phrase uh woke right and they say you know well this is just

00:38:44 the same as you know 2017 through 2021 uh blm you know the woke left and those kinds of things

00:38:51 um one of the differences is you you look at the founders and going back to what antonio said just

00:38:56 a moment ago um they're saying no we actually are fit we're suited we're qualified uh to govern

00:39:02 ourselves and we can do it in in such a way that it lends towards um the blessing and prosperity

00:39:08 of of us and our posterity whereas when you think of the woke left um you think of blm i think is a

00:39:14 great example um notice that was never even though blm was off the rocker and it completely lost

00:39:19 their mind even in their insanity right even at the fever pitch of of woke madness on the left

00:39:26 they never even dreamed of uttering such a thing they never said we want to throw off

00:39:32 governance and we want to be self-governed and take care of ourself never even claimed it right

00:39:39 because right we they know they couldn't right because you can you can look at the founders you

00:39:44 can look at um the colonists and and look at what they accomplished by god's providence by his grace

00:39:50 but also through hard work and sweat and tears they they had they had settled um a a a huge

00:39:57 land mass right there was still much more to be severed but these colonies had been going on for

00:40:02 decades at this point they had built churches and courthouses and um and enacted you know certain

00:40:08 laws and legislation congress right and congress and like they built civilization and and these

00:40:14 are just the facts i'm not trying to pick on anybody but you can read the statistics um the

00:40:18 average black person uh takes over the course of their life about 750 000 in um in government eight

00:40:26 seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars uh the average net with their taxes so you take their 0.91

00:40:30 taxes out of it so really they probably take more it's even more taxes bring it down that's that's

00:40:35 the the total amount so so paying some taxes in and then what they take out so the amount that

00:40:40 they take out and then subtracting what they put in it's uh three quarters of a million dollars 0.80

00:40:45 that's what it cost our nation for each black person on average it cost our nation um three 0.74

00:40:51 quarters of a million dollars. Okay. Hispanics, I believe it's like 560,000. Lower, yeah. A little 0.51

00:40:58 bit lower, 530 or something like that. It's about two thirds of what it costs for each

00:41:04 black person. So for each Hispanic living in the United States who is a citizen and getting

00:41:10 benefits, it costs the nation, the taxpayers, about half a million. For each white person 0.81

00:41:18 in the United States, it's a net positive on average of about a quarter million, about 250,000. 0.75

00:41:24 So each white person, and praise God that it's still about 59% majority white, because 0.76

00:41:31 mathematically, just looking at finances alone, we're done. We already have $35 trillion in debt. 0.75

00:41:38 You are absolutely done if it ever gets to the point where you have more people in the nation

00:41:44 taking three quarters of a million dollars and half a million dollars than the people in the

00:41:48 nation who are giving a quarter million dollars, right? That's just the way math works. I mean,

00:41:53 Dave Ramsey's, you know, like he would never like to acknowledge what I'm saying, but he would have

00:41:57 to admit, yeah, you would be in big trouble. So when you think of the woke left, it was never

00:42:05 even claimed. We feel like we're ruled by tyrants and we want to throw off that rule and be

00:42:11 self-governed right we have healthy families fathers who are present in the home we are tax

00:42:17 paying citizens who give far more than we take we're employed we're um we're we're religious

00:42:23 we're moral um no the demand was uh you give us three quarters of a million dollars per person

00:42:31 over their lifetime and we need reparations and more we need more that was the claim that was a

00:42:39 that is not the founder's claim and that's not the woke rights claim right so to say well there's

00:42:45 woke left and there's woke right and they're exactly the same it's the same picture like 0.52

00:42:48 that's that's absolutely ridiculous it's absolutely ridiculous um that that is not what is going on 0.85

00:42:56 with the ascendant right the new right the new christian right whatever you want to call it 0.98

00:42:59 that is not the claim that's being made today the claim that's being made today from many

00:43:04 on on the new right or paleo conservatives or whatever you want to call them christian

00:43:08 nationalists. The claim that's being made today is we are ruled by tyrants who are stealing from us,

00:43:15 stealing from us, oppressing us, and giving it to individuals who are not committed and not

00:43:22 invested in our country the way that we are. They're not actually giving back. They're not

00:43:29 abiding by the laws of the land. They're not upstanding citizens. And this is wrong. This is

00:43:37 theft. This is wrong. It's oppression. It's immoral. It's unjust. That's the claim that's

00:43:43 being made today. But I just, I find that interesting that, you know, you don't see

00:43:48 when it's like, well, you know, all men are created equal. And so, you know, so if the,

00:43:54 you know, the founders were able to write the Declaration of Independence and say,

00:43:58 you can't rule over us anymore. Notice like their claim was not, hey, King George,

00:44:04 we need you to send a ship that barely floats because it's loaded to the brim with gold

00:44:11 we king george give us stuff gold hallelujah stuff silver that's not their claim their claim

00:44:20 is king george don't give us anything but leave us alone leave us alone we can care for ourselves

00:44:29 the woke left blm they they would never even in their insanity they would never make such a claim 0.50

00:44:36 because they know oh no we cannot care for ourself we are not asking for self-governance

00:44:42 uh we are asking for stuff let's be clear stuff please yeah stuff okay so so to like no this is

00:44:49 not um the new right whatever you want to call it this is not wokeness this is not wokeness this is

00:44:56 individuals who are saying, no, we love America. We love the country. We love the founding even

00:45:03 of the country. We think there were faults because we're talking about, we're not talking

00:45:06 about the word of God. It's not, we're not talking about infallibility. We're talking about good men,

00:45:10 but fallible men. We think that they erred in some cases, but mostly when it comes to all men are

00:45:15 created equal, I think most of the guys on the new ascendant right would take the position that

00:45:19 you and Tony are taking and say, I don't think this was actually an L for the founders. I think

00:45:25 that the founders meant this in a very particular sense and it has been misinterpreted by novel you

00:45:30 know modern liberal you know people today I think that's how most of the new right would think some

00:45:36 would be more of the persuasion of no this actually was you know enlightenment thinking

00:45:42 that it crept in already too much and but even those guys would say yeah but 90 percent of what

00:45:48 the founders did was fantastic and the fact that they had a few L's well I mean most people

00:45:53 throughout history have lots of L's and they only had a few. So we still salute the founders and

00:45:58 appreciate them. Uh, but we've, we've had 250 years now to test this theory of all men being

00:46:03 created equal. The verdict has come back in. It is on its face, uh, false and, and, uh, we should 0.74

00:46:10 reject it. I noticed the arc of all the content we produce King's hall. All of it is towards

00:46:15 typically self-governance, running your home without help from the government, uh, being a

00:46:19 man it's not uh well you need to get out there and you need to get disability benefits so they

00:46:24 can pay your way no it's you need to go out there and be your own doctor you need to be healthy you

00:46:27 need to take care of yourself you need to learn finance like over and over all of our content

00:46:31 you need to be self-sufficient like it's not asking for the government in fact the one thing

00:46:36 we're asking the government to do is to take violent criminals and lock them up right which

00:46:40 is the government's actual job here's the thing i think a lot of people on the right uh the new

00:46:45 right would say you know what we would do that too right if we were allowed to yeah but but here's

00:46:50 the reality you know the new right we we recognize jurisdictions god assigned jurisdictions and we

00:46:55 know that the government um uh exclusively has been given the sword the government um is has a

00:47:02 monopoly on violence just violence and so we recognize that no vigil anti-ism is um is is

00:47:10 actually not uh biblically permissible and and so the only reason why we ask for anything the only

00:47:16 thing we ask we don't ask for stuff we're not asking for money the only thing that uh the new

00:47:20 right has asked for is for the government to do the one clear job that has been assigned to them

00:47:27 by god in romans 13 to the to um the state right to the civil magistrate has been assigned the

00:47:33 sword he's god's servant god's deacon uh to enact justice against the evildoers so that's you know

00:47:40 that but that you're right that's pretty much it is we're saying lock people up 0.54

00:47:43 who are criminals um uh defend the borders and don't let uh invaders into the country

00:47:50 and those who are are here and and should not be here please get them out yep and notice the left

00:47:57 all of their programs i'll finish with this and give it to you maybe antonio you can have the

00:48:00 last word uh government paid child care government pays for your child care government health care

00:48:06 government backed loans for housing. So they help out new, new parents. It's like you said,

00:48:12 with black lives matter, but even still, I mean that the Somalian that's running for mayor of

00:48:16 Minneapolis, he's, he's espousing these grand government programs. He's like, it shouldn't be 1.00

00:48:21 minimum wage so low and this or that they, they see this government that Western Christian men 0.57

00:48:27 built that has so much excess because it's been so successful that it's built and grounded on

00:48:32 biblical principles and men that worked and is so much excess all they can see is not well we can

00:48:37 we can make something too like this and it would flourish and do well in somalia nope nope we know

00:48:41 they want the stuff we want to produce give it to us hand over fist please be it health care be it

00:48:48 child care that's why that's why they're here disability be it welfare give us stuff right

00:48:53 that's why they're here that's why ilhan omar married her brother and cheated the system to 1.00

00:48:58 become a citizen and now you know is ruling over um americans as a somalian who doesn't even belong 0.95

00:49:03 here who will marry their own family members to get to america well we're so opulent that's right 0.77

00:49:07 and and so uh but that's but that's why they're here um if if they believe that all men were 0.91

00:49:13 created equal they would stay they know that somalia does not have the capacity to do what

00:49:21 the founders did in this country they know and i'm just going to say it because it needs to be said 0.98

00:49:27 somalians know that somalian people cannot achieve what has been achieved in this country

00:49:33 they know they can't not yet at least not yet at least not yet right if if there was a revival 0.99

00:49:39 they all fall in love with god and start like okay then then maybe centuries from now right

00:49:45 let them cook let them cook for a little while and and try not to use you know dung and things

00:49:50 like that in the cooking like cook in a christianly way marry outside of your family marry well yeah

00:49:55 exactly that's another thing people and it needs to be said people need to be aware of these things

00:49:59 people say why does somalians look so unique right when you think of like the um captain phillips

00:50:05 with tom cruise uh um not tom cruise uh tom hanks uh movie and you know that that iconic scene where

00:50:11 he's like he looks at uh tom hanks he's like i'm the captain now right yeah and it's like dude this

00:50:15 guy like looks weird like that's that's a specific head shape yeah right um and and the guy who's

00:50:21 running for mayor um in what city is it minneapolis minneapolis um it's like why why do

00:50:27 somalians look so distinct like like very unique um well you can look it up it's you know it's 0.90

00:50:34 because for centuries um they have been um incestual uh like it's it's inbreeding it's 0.99

00:50:41 centuries and centuries of inbreeding well that's not good that's that's not not just it's immoral

00:50:46 But the reason why, God's not arbitrary. He's not capricious. God doesn't do, you know, just randomly give us, you know, certain morals and precepts. He does, you know, he says this is right and this is wrong because it's not just what brings him glory, but it's for our benefit. It's for our good.

00:51:02 And the reason why inbreeding is not moral is because it's also not beneficial.

00:51:10 And so, again, with a country where there's, you know, millions of people, we're talking about, again, averages, generalities, per capita.

00:51:19 So, yes, you will always have some exceptions.

00:51:21 You'll have a few Somalians who are relatively bright, you know. 0.96

00:51:26 And then those Somalians, instead of fixing their country and saying, hey, all men are created equal, so we're equal, so let's do it here. 1.00

00:51:34 They know they can't. 0.97

00:51:35 They know they can't. 0.79

00:51:36 So instead, they take their best and their brightest and send them to our country to manipulate the system and play off of white guilt, because that's a lot of what it is, in order to get stuff. 0.77

00:51:48 And then just start importing more. 0.89

00:51:51 You know, they get a foothold and then import more and more people.

00:51:53 and now you go to minneapolis and you're in somalia and it's and it's it's wicked it's 0.93

00:52:01 absolutely wicked but all men are created equal if you take this in this very um you know modern

00:52:08 20th century liberal universal application um then that's that's what it lends towards is like 0.92

00:52:15 well why do you want to you know why do you want to stop the somalians from coming um they they

00:52:20 have just as much potential, potential equality as anyone else. And, you know, and then you have

00:52:29 to look at America and, you know, because Joel Berry doesn't like Ilhan Omar. And like, you know,

00:52:33 again, he's, Joel Berry's a liberal, but he's a liberal on the right side of the scale instead

00:52:39 of the left side. But so he would acknowledge Ilhan Omar is terrible. He would acknowledge that.

00:52:44 but but what he can't say is he can't say you know what Somalians can't be here period because 0.97

00:52:51 they're not suited for our country they're not suited for western civilization they're not suited

00:52:58 to be a part of a Christian nation they're not suited to be a part of America Somalians cannot 1.00

00:53:04 on in generality in general they cannot make the claim that our founders made they cannot say hey 0.96

00:53:11 we will be self-governed we'll take it from here king we've got this and then build the most

00:53:17 prosperous nation that the world has ever seen um and and until you are able to say that say

00:53:23 actually not all people are created equal and and we're not just rejecting equity right woke left

00:53:28 stuff you know equality of outcome but we're rejecting equality wholesale wholesale when it

00:53:34 comes to the eternal spiritual sense, I believe, as the scripture says, that God does not show

00:53:42 favoritism. But the implicit disclaimer for that caveat is there is no favoritism with God...among

00:53:50 the elect. So when it comes to Christians, eternally speaking, yes, there is an equality

00:53:57 in the side of God. And when it comes to one nation, assuming that you actually maintain

00:54:03 that nation, then yes, I also believe under the law, there should be a sense of equality and not

00:54:08 second class, you know, two different or three different classes of citizens where some get,

00:54:13 you know, these privileges and these other people are exploited and taken advantage of. So I think

00:54:18 under the law, in the temporal sense, within one singular nation, there should be a sense of

00:54:23 equality. In the eternal ultimate spiritual sense among the elect, then yes, I think in the sight of

00:54:29 god there is an eternal um uh equal sense of dignity and worth and these kinds of things for

00:54:34 for elect people christians among every tribe tongue and nation beyond that there is no equality

00:54:41 not just equity equal outcome but equality equal potential it's a myth it doesn't exist it's not

00:54:48 a thing there are are certain peoples who um again there will always be exceptions it's like

00:54:54 there's tons of geniuses in India. Yeah, because there's 1.3 billion people in India, right? If

00:55:01 you have that many people, then just by the laws of average, there are going to be some of them

00:55:05 that are remarkable. But you look at India per capita and compare it to America. It's not the

00:55:13 same. You look at Somalia or Haiti and compare it to America. It's not the same. These are not the 0.54

00:55:20 same people. And we have to be able to acknowledge that. A great deal of the success that God gave

00:55:27 in his mercy to America was, I would argue, the main factors are as follows. Number one,

00:55:32 providence. Providence is huge. You read the American Puritans, you read the Pilgrims,

00:55:38 you read Cotton Mather and all these different guys, and it's just instance after instance after

00:55:43 instance where in the bottom of the ninth, God does something that is legitimately miraculous.

00:55:48 miraculous so uh providence god's mercy um and and the people being christian okay so that's

00:55:56 the christian aspect god's uh unique kindness in his providence and the people being committed to

00:56:00 christ uh number two another uh factor and i would put this a second is the stock of the people

00:56:07 themselves that's what you were saying wes these are unique people right the the founders are every

00:56:13 single one of them is speaking multiple languages um fluent in latin uh these are you know classically

00:56:19 trained classically trained the these are are not just country bumpkins these guys are elite

00:56:25 they're incredibly virtuous intelligent moral christian men who were who did not come out of

00:56:32 the ether so where do you find men like that well you know where you find them you find them seated

00:56:37 at the precipice of a millennia of christian monarchy that's where you find them like well

00:56:44 how do you get men like that uh you get men like that by having a christian monarch for a thousand

00:56:50 years so it's like i'm all for a republic i like republics i think republics are ideal i'm i'm

00:56:57 actually even willing to say i think it is it is the the most preferable form of government a

00:57:02 constitutional republic um but you know what you got to earn it right benjamin franklin said well

00:57:08 you know what did you give us uh mr franklin a republic if you can keep it we lost it right the

00:57:12 verdict is back in we we know uh the outcome we did not keep it we lost it so how do you get it

00:57:18 back um well how did we get in the first place where'd you get your republic from uh well we

00:57:23 got the republic from a strict rule from a christian monarch over the course of a thousand

00:57:29 years that's where you find that's where you groom and shape over 50 subsequent generations

00:57:36 that's how you shape the caliber of people the stock of people that are actually capable of a 0.60

00:57:43 republican self-governance and we lost that how did we lose that we lost it by apostasy first

00:57:49 and foremost turning our backs on the lord jesus christ we took prayer out of schools we took

00:57:53 catechisms out of school we we watered down and lowered the bar of doctrine in our churches and

00:57:58 in our seminaries and all we did all these things also though we let a ton of people into the 0.94

00:58:03 country that were not from the founding stock people who who never came from ancestors who

00:58:10 were shaped over a thousand years of christian monarchy so we literally quite literally it's not

00:58:15 just that the people compromised but we actually changed the people we got a different people we

00:58:21 don't have the same percent christian literally after heart cellar in 64 you literally see the

00:58:25 decline yep and it's so it's like it's also white americans go down and christianity go down that's

00:58:30 what happened in the 60s yep so so i would say um providence and mercy of god and christian people

00:58:35 uh devotion to christ second uh the stock of the people that is significant third i would also say

00:58:41 and this is providential and god's mercy as well but um the the land the fact that we had um a

00:58:48 country that was very sparse and yes there were people here indigenous peoples uh but very sparse

00:58:55 in its population, but very large and very rich in its resources. That is also another huge factor

00:59:04 that we have to acknowledge when it comes to the success of America. So you take any one of those

00:59:10 elements out of the equation and think that what has been achieved here could be achieved somewhere 0.99

00:59:17 else, and you are being absolutely foolish. Do you have a distinctly committed Christian people 1.00

00:59:23 and god's unique providence that he wants to start a nation with them okay do you have that

00:59:30 number two um the stock of those people besides their christian commitment um are they highly

00:59:35 trained highly intelligent and highly shaped over a thousand years of christian monarchy

00:59:40 right the stock of the people the people themselves third did you just discover a massive

00:59:47 landmass with some of the richest resources in the world that is virtually unsettled and ripe

00:59:56 for the taking, okay? If not, if you don't have those three criteria, then guess what? It's not

01:00:03 going to work. You're not going to get America. It's not going to happen. It's not going to happen,

01:00:08 and I think we have to acknowledge what happened in our nation. Its immense success is miraculous.

01:00:15 it is a miraculous moment in history that will not happen again there is no extra land mass

01:00:22 we've explored all the seas we've explored the whole face of the planet there is no hidden place

01:00:29 that with all these resources and we currently on the planet on planet earth we do not have

01:00:35 one one people anywhere whether it be in europe or asia or south america we do not have any people

01:00:43 currently any nation of people of the caliber of the people of england at the time of america's

01:00:49 founding we don't have those people point to me the country that has that level of first and

01:00:57 foremost commitment to christ they are christian people secondly that level of learnedness and

01:01:03 intelligence and uh a people that have that caliber and and heritage of of history that

01:01:11 there are people that have been groomed for a millennia of Christian thinking from King Alfred

01:01:17 and even before Constantine. We don't have it. And so the only chance we even have, and in many 0.61

01:01:24 ways, I'll just admit that we're cooked. America is cooked. The only chance that we have is not

01:01:32 doing it again. You don't just do America. That doesn't just grow on trees. The only chance that 0.64

01:01:39 we even have of any improvement at all is to try to recapture it we can't start over we can't we

01:01:45 can't go and do it again somewhere else it's recapturing and what does that involve i think

01:01:49 number one it involves revival and national repentance number two it involves getting all

01:01:56 the people out of the country that are not american they're not american you got to get back

01:02:03 to what are the three criteria that made america successful in the first place god's providence

01:02:09 his mercy towards us our commitment towards him and and a particular people of high caliber and

01:02:15 high stock and um the the incredible land right the geographic um natural resources that made us

01:02:22 so abundantly blessed and wealthy um we have the land still uh we don't have the people

01:02:28 and we don't have the commitment to uh to god and because we don't have the commitment to god

01:02:33 I don't think that we have his particular blessing like the founders did. I think God was committed

01:02:38 to them. I don't believe that God is blessing America in the way that he was blessing America

01:02:44 once upon a time because we are not committed to God. America doesn't bless God, right? God's not

01:02:48 blessing America in the way that he once was because America refuses to bless God. So we need

01:02:53 national repentance. We need to renew our covenant to the Lord, turn from our apostasy.

01:03:00 um we still have the land but then uh we need to get rid of a ton of people ilhan omar has to go 1.00

01:03:09 back the somalians have to go back the haitians have to go back nigerians have to go back a ton 1.00

01:03:15 of people you know ecuadorians and and people from south america have to go back they have to go back 0.95

01:03:21 we need to start back over with i believe heritage americans with those who actually

01:03:27 were a part of this American project from the beginning, or at least, you know, maybe not the

01:03:35 very beginning, but at least going back before the Hart-Seller Act, before the Civil Rights Act,

01:03:41 going back at least, I would say, you know, 50, 60, 70, 80 years. If we're not willing to do that,

01:03:48 and everybody will say that's extreme, this is a moderate position. It really is. If you're not

01:03:54 willing to do that right uh full moratorium on immigration net zero immigration and deporting i

01:04:00 would argue anywhere from 60 to 100 million people and then the rest who are left um national

01:04:07 repentance i'm talking the president comes out right like like nineveh the king comes he comes

01:04:12 out in sackcloth and ashes and declares a three-day fast for the entire people we are turning

01:04:18 to the lord and we're ripping out of the declaration of independence all men are created equal

01:04:23 and we're putting in there an explicit devotion to the Lord Jesus Christ.

01:04:28 We're going to name him in the Constitution,

01:04:30 name him in the Declaration of Independence.

01:04:34 If you're not that serious, then you just need to be honest and say,

01:04:37 yeah, America's done, and I want it to be done.

01:04:41 I don't want to save America.

01:04:42 And I'm perfectly content with my descendants, 0.99

01:04:47 My children's children being replaced, raped, killed, exploited. 0.98

01:04:57 And so for me, as a pastor, as a Christian, and as a father, a husband and a father, I'm not okay with that. 0.98

01:05:04 And I am willing to be persecuted.

01:05:06 I'm willing to be hated.

01:05:07 I'm willing to be slandered if it means standing up for my future grandchildren.

01:05:13 I love my grandchildren more than I care about what right-wing watch thinks about me.

01:05:20 And honestly, right-wing watch is actually pretty fair.

01:05:25 I appreciate right-wing watch, right?

01:05:26 They don't deceitfully clip you out of context. 0.86

01:05:29 So I should say I care more about my future grandchildren than I care about Christians. 1.00

01:05:34 Because they're actually the worst. 1.00

01:05:36 They're actually the cruelest in their criticisms and their deceitful ways of twisting things.

01:05:41 So I think that's what it takes. It takes recommitting to Christ so that God might

01:05:46 commit to blessing us again. And it takes getting back to heritage Americans, which means that a 1.00

01:05:53 lot of people who have shown up in the last 15 minutes, they actually have to go back. They 0.74

01:05:59 don't have to be hated. They don't have to be exploited. They don't have to be harmed. They

01:06:05 don't have to be hurt, but they do have to leave. They have to leave. And then we need to crack down

01:06:11 on crime. We need to get rid of the welfare state where we're stealing from one group of people and

01:06:19 giving a quarter, or I'm sorry, three quarters of a million dollars over the lifetime of another

01:06:24 group of people. These are the things that we need to do. And until we're ready to even talk

01:06:31 about these things, then we just need to admit, if we're not willing to even talk about these things,

01:06:35 or we're just going to lie and slander anyone who does talk about these things,

01:06:39 then you just need to be honest and come out and say i hate my country i hate america and i and i

01:06:46 want it to be destroyed i'm actually i am my highest commitment is not to christ and it's

01:06:52 not to christianity it is to liberalism before anything um before anything christian my first 0.66

01:07:00 and highest commitment is to liberalism and um and i will die on that hill and and i think that

01:07:08 would be that would be intellectual honesty and i would appreciate that and um and and so i think

01:07:14 we just need to say that you know and just say uh we are content uh with the last remnants of

01:07:20 blessing in america dying with us and and getting that uh because at the end of the day uh what's

01:07:25 most important to us is laying on our beds at night and um and going to sleep you know with

01:07:32 a clear conscience because we don't think we're racist that's i think that's where we're at right

01:07:37 now as a country i don't know um if if we're going to win uh this battle but i i am hopeful in the

01:07:42 sense that i think a lot of young people they actually want to fight this fight i think there's

01:07:47 a lot of gen z um that they're they're starting to wake up and they actually want to fight the

01:07:51 fight i don't know what do you guys say no i think that's really helpful i think one of the big

01:07:56 takeaways from what you just articulated is that um it's not really helpful to appeal to the founders

01:08:00 at this in this place in time because the context that they were in doesn't exist it doesn't exist

01:08:07 Right. And so I think that's it's grave to have to say that. But I think that's just something we have to recognize. I think Gen Z, of course, recognizes that because I've never really grown up in a time where that ever did exist. Right. But but one other thing that I realized as you were talking is like, so you have the post liberal right, but I actually think you also have the post liberal left.

01:08:25 And I think the only true liberals that exist anymore are on the right. They're the neocons, the people who have some of the views that Joel Berry here is articulating, which is this appeal to the civil rights and this appeal to limited government.

01:08:39 I don't think anyone really believes that anymore on either side of the aisle in terms of the mainstream, because it's so preposterous to believe that the idea that the government could be the same government that the founders articulated.

01:08:51 it only levies taxes it only enforces trade i mean that's not what the government the government we

01:08:56 have anymore the government's spending hundreds of billions of dollars trillions of trillions of

01:09:01 dollars of deficit um every year it's just not a limited government a trillion dollars every 100

01:09:07 days is that what is that what it is added to the debt to the debt spending more yeah yeah so it's

01:09:13 just like the the idea it's like it's true our founders did articulate a a liberal view or you

01:09:18 could call it a classically liberal view of a limited government. The government does one of

01:09:23 five things. You see that articulated in the preamble of the constitution, and they did emphasize

01:09:27 civil rights. Now it wasn't the flattened civil rights that we have today where it's like civil

01:09:31 rights for all people, but they did have, they did have a strong belief and articulation of,

01:09:35 you know, the virtuous citizens relationship to the government. But now obviously the liberal

01:09:42 today says, well, that's actually flattened. Everyone has that same relationship. It's equal

01:09:46 in all ways all people are equal in all ways so that's their view of the civil rights which is

01:09:50 actually a perverted view of what the founders thought but they still hold on to this idea of

01:09:54 limited government and so the government just left me alone um everything would be fine that

01:09:59 would fix all of america's issues it's nothing more than just a big government and we're spending 0.99

01:10:03 too much money and of course that's idiotic and incredibly out of touch and so we have to call 0.97

01:10:07 that out um but but going back to your point obviously we as christians we still hold this 0.99

01:10:12 idea of self-governance governance right and so you pointed out king's hall and there's a there's

01:10:16 a sense in which it's true that privately we ought to be governing ourselves well but we all recognize

01:10:21 here i think on the on the postal right if that's what you want to call us that that a small

01:10:26 government's not going to get it done it's not yep small government um i i you know that's kind of

01:10:32 the the common trope of you know neoconservativism and in typical fashion you know like if you'd

01:10:38 asked me as a young adult uh what i think i would have said the same thing i would have said you

01:10:42 know small government good big government bad and and that that would be the the long and short of

01:10:47 it that's that you know that's about as far as my thought process went um which is incredibly naive

01:10:53 uh what i didn't what i didn't realize is uh the reason why small government was so good

01:11:00 in america's founding is because um because a large government was not required you you did not

01:11:07 have um in in our founding you did not have um a you know just where 20 percent of the population

01:11:15 were thieves and murderers and rapists right you didn't you didn't have that you know and and you

01:11:21 also didn't have where a large swath of the population was on welfare and requiring you

01:11:27 know government aid you did and even our better the better part of our population is still far

01:11:32 less virtuous we have to admit right that gambling and pornography than than the previous generations

01:11:39 less virtuous and and then i would say especially right because you can find some people god fearing

01:11:44 salt of the earth christians who i think are um as virtuous as many of the founders and even more

01:11:51 virtuous in terms of their christian commitment uh their morality than some of the founders uh

01:11:56 looking at you benjamin franklin looking at you thomas jefferson right i mean because you know we

01:12:01 we do have some people it's like no this guy and morally speaking uh is actually superior to thomas

01:12:06 jefferson because thomas jefferson sucked right i mean like i he was he ripped out verses of the 0.92

01:12:12 bible benjamin franklin was a bit of a hoe you know um you know so like that i like we've got 0.96

01:12:18 people better than that here's what we don't have though we don't have people smarter than them 0.99

01:12:22 we don't we might have you know some of our population um with a higher commitment to

01:12:28 virtue but we don't have hardly any of our nation that is um is uniquely trained and equipped and

01:12:34 academic and intelligent and um is is broadly well read and all these things uh that the founders

01:12:40 were and so we just have to acknowledge we are are starting at a massive deficit and um and with

01:12:47 the lay of the land as it currently is today you don't get out of this hole if you're not willing

01:12:52 to do some things that are going to be viewed as extreme. I personally don't think they are

01:12:58 objectively extreme, but they will be called extreme. All right, that's the episode. We got

01:13:03 to call it quits. I hope that you've been blessed by it. And it is Friday and we will see you. I

01:13:10 believe we have just a couple episodes left of the Friday special, which is at 8 p.m. Central.

01:13:15 So that'll be tonight, 8 p.m. Central with myself and Dr. Stephen Wolf talking about Christian

01:13:19 nationalism, how to get the train, uh, American train back on the rails. And then, uh, other than

01:13:24 the Friday special, we will see you again with a live stream on Monday. We live stream three times

01:13:29 a week, Monday, Wednesday, Friday at 3 PM central time. So Lord willing, we'll see you on Monday.

01:13:33 Uh, God bless.

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The NXR Podcast - September 05, 2025

THE LIVESTREAM - Joel Berry vs. The Founding Fathers？

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