THE LIVESTREAM - Jordan Peterson, James Lindsay, & The “Woke Right”
Episode Stats
Length
2 hours and 1 minute
Words per minute
162.47807
Harmful content
Misogyny
15
sentences flagged
Toxicity
33
sentences flagged
Hate speech
108
sentences flagged
Summary
James Lindsay, Jordan Peterson, and Jordan Peter Stein are all using the term "woke right" to describe themselves. Why are they using it? And what does it say about the real lines drawn on the right? This episode is brought to you by Right Response Ministries.
Transcript
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Jack Prasobiak calls for Christian men to build families, lead their communities, and defend their nation.
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thousands of young conservatives are rejecting drag culture open borders and the death spiral
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of liberal democracy and now all of a sudden they're being called woke james lindsey an atheist
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once co-belligerent against the excesses of the left is sounding the alarm not against antifa
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and not against the left but actually against the right itself see in his eyes anyone who speaks
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in terms of collective identity national destiny or religious authority has gone off the rails
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he's adopted the phrase woke right to describe these people but let's be clear these men are
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not dressing up marxist categories in red white and blue and they're not crying victim while
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their group identity is simultaneously being advantaged they're not co-opting oppressive
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narratives falsely. Instead, they're simply rejecting a hollow system that tells Christians
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to keep quiet, to keep their faith private, and to keep the public square morally sterile.
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The people being called woke right are those saying enough is enough. They're done pretending
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that drag queen story hour is a constitutional blessing. They're done pretending that open
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borders are a civic virtue, and they're done pretending that America can survive without a
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spine or even a soul. James Lindsay wants a right that fights the left, but only within the boundaries
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of Enlightenment liberalism, that is secular, individualistic, and morally neutral. But those
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boundaries are exactly what led us here, and now the people trying to build something rooted,
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biblical, and bold are being smeared as radicals. This episode is brought to you by our premier
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sponsors, Armored Republic and Reese Fund, as well as our Patreon members and our generous donors.
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You can join our Patreon by going to patreon.com forward slash right response ministries, or you
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can make a donation by going to right response ministries.com forward slash donate. So today
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we're pulling the mask off the term woke right. Who's using it? Why are they using it? And what
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it reveals about the real lines being drawn on the right. So let's dive in.
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GA, we are back. We are back. Not Wes though. Not Wes. Wes is gone. He's in Hawaii going to
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a wedding with his family. And so I'm sure he'll just have a difficult time suffering for the cause
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of Christ in Hawaii. He'll be back soon. So we'll have Wes joining us in the near future. For today,
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we're going to be talking about James Lindsay and Jordan Peter Stein, the two of them, Jordan
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Peter Stein. Stein, I think, is appropriate. I mean, he did partner with the ADL. And a lot of
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this does um it should make you angry uh you should be righteously indignant and in your anger do not
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sin as the bible says um but but yeah you should be frustrated that a guy who was a hero uh to young
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men uh for almost a decade um and and who the lord in his common grace right jordan peterson is not a
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christian but in his common grace uh god used jordan peterson uh peter stein you know i've
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heard it both ways uh god used him um to do a lot of good for a young man um to not just play the
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victim to you know make your bed clean your room um and and he exercised a lot of courage against
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a lot of you know ngos non-governmental organizations that were putting immense
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pressure on people in this kind of first wave of wokeness that ramped up in the early 2000 uh teens
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but especially 2015 leading to Obergefell and then certainly 2017, 18, 19, and then really
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reached its climax in 2020. And so Jordan Peterson came on the scene and launched into
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the stratosphere by refusing to use LGBT pronouns and was resisting forced speech. That was kind of
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what put him on the map, his refusal to be forced to use certain forms of speech. But then even
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recently, we've seen him partner with the ADL. So the same kind of NGOs and groups that were
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trying to destroy Jordan Peterson, where his resistance to those NGOs is precisely what made
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him famous and made him a hero in many people's eyes. And now he's actually not just starting to
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compromise or no longer resisting these organizations but actually giving these
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organizations the same ones the right hand of fellowship and partnering with them against what
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he perceives as being anti-semitic so the whole christ is king controversy we did an episode on
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that recently feel free to go back and watch it but now he's just recently had james lindsey on
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his show and they're talking about the woke right what is the woke right and it's ironic because you
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know jordan peterson is one of the personalities and host on the daily wire network and matt walsh
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has had actually i think a lot of great commentary over the last couple of days in regards to uh this
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whole idea of the woke right and and matt's not really having it he's doing a good job and saying
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no this is not a thing and if it is then i guess i'm woke right and so it's ironic to see you know
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matt walsh who is also with the daily wire we'll see for how long but he's with the daily wire i
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you know there's i think there's actually a path i'd love to see him leave the daily wire but i
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to be honest there's a path for him staying on at the daily wire for a long time just because
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matt walsh is a cash cow i i guarantee you um that he is bringing in um probably the most profitable
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personality with the daily wire at this point especially with his uh documentaries what is a
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woman and am i racist and uh as ben shapiro continue continues to in my assessment show
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more of his colors of being israel first uh having someone like matt walsh who uh ben shapiro would
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disagree with and has disagreed with for quite some time on some of these issues uh but but i
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think uh i don't know if shapiro can really afford um to to get rid of some of the differing opinions
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on his network after losing candace owens and uh losing uh brett right cooper yeah brett cooper
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um i i think that matt walsh in many ways is one of the last guys on the daily wire that
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that a lot of people trust and so um so he could be there for a while but the point is there was
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an irony in seeing jordan peterson who's with the daily wire hosting james lindsey uh and matt
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walsh who is also a personality contributor with the daily wire and then seeing james lindsey in
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the same 48 hour window james lindsey and matt walsh going back and forth and back and forth and
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james lindsey is on with jordan peterson and as his episode is airing he's simultaneously on x
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calling you know matt walsh a midwit right because matt walsh uh had a different take from ben
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shapiro and others in regards to uh the shiloh controversy some are calling her uh joan of park
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yeah i saw that in the chat instead of joan of arc joan of park uh this is the the tattooed
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white woman who had a young toddler that she's holding in her arms and uh and who allegedly i
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and i think it's probably true we just don't have the video of of her speaking to this uh this young
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black boy who um we're told is autistic and we're told is five although he's about the height of
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of an average 10 to 12 year old which it's possible that he's just a big boy so i i don't
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know i don't have omniscience or any secret intel on the matter but i'm just saying he definitely
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looks like a child who's older than five but this is the woman who allegedly used the n-word
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when telling this this boy to stop stealing the contents from her purse and then a somalian who
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was there at the park you know started recording her on his phone and then uploaded it and then
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it was taken down but then somebody else had found it they re-uploaded it and a go fund me
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was started because she has to kind of uproot her entire life and find a new address and a new
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school for her children her social security number was doxed her name extended family members her
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address all these kinds of things and so a lot of predominantly white people came to her aid
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and matt walsh his take on this whole situation was saying um yeah if this is what it takes
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uh to to once and for all maybe this is the cusp maybe maybe this is the once and for all
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you know america saying we are done with cancel culture we're not doing it anymore and matt
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walsh wasn't saying and so therefore we should start using the n-word you know especially on
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playgrounds with children that's not that's not what he was saying right uh but what he is saying
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is um that that although it's an unsavory word and and that particular use of it um i certainly
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would not advise however to dox her her address her school her children her parents and extended
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family members and social security number doxing especially to that degree on an issue that is
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this sensitive in in our american context it it is and people will say well this is hyperbolic or
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this is extreme but no i i think it really is legitimate to dock someone on this issue to that
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extent um it is tantamount to murder what you're doing is putting a hit on someone and saying it's
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open season joel some of the videos that i saw where just as people were trying to figure out
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who she was i saw videos on x where people went on and they said well it's not just the mom we've
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got to find the kid too and the kid i'll put it more politely but basically needs some sense
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knocked into it to not come out racist and it was to the tune of needs to be made unconscious
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for long periods of time physically knocked unconscious yeah i saw that and and this was
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not parody this was not humorous this was uh this was a black man yep deadly serious yeah saying
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that someone needs to find her child her two-year-old three-year-old child and beat them
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unconscious and so to dock someone on this kind of issue when racial tensions in our country are
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currently this high um is it is tantamount to murder and so uh mount walsh his position was
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not saying so let's all start using the n-word on a regular basis you know especially with children
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on playgrounds that wasn't his position that's not what he was communicating what he was
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communicating is um is that is that people are saying no we're not going to allow this woman
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even if we wouldn't have done it ourselves even if we would have used some other kind of language
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we're not going to allow a random woman with her toddler son to have her entire life destroyed
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simply because she said a naughty word we're done with that america is done with that that that is
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the essence of cancel culture is that you make a mistake and i know that plenty would disagree with
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me and say well she didn't make a mistake she called the boy a certain word because he was
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behaving in that moment as a certain word i still would not have done it i would have used other
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words thief right you're being a thief stop that where are your parents why are you unsupervised
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why are you taking things that are not yours you need to go home do you need me to call your
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parents and if he started to mouth off i'm going to call the police to come and get you to take
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you home right um you do not behave this way so i i think there's a way of dealing with it without
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using that particular language however that said um using a certain word um a magical word
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uh there's no what we either have free speech or we don't now there are social consequences for the
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words that we use so free speech doesn't mean uh that there are no social consequences but when
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the social consequences are as high as putting a hit on on someone's child yeah to beat them
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unconscious potentially to the point of death no those are not normal consequences if somebody is
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regularly using unsavory speech in a foolish way and it causes them to not be the most popular
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person in the workplace it causes them not to have a whole bunch of friends that that's that's
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one thing but when it causes them to have their social security number and address doxed publicly
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to millions of people and then and then videos dozens and dozens of videos coming out saying
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find her yep hurt her hurt her child um that that is not just normal social consequences
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that is cancel culture in its essence and so everyone rushing to shiloh's support are there
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some people who just are rushing to to her support because they just hate black people
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maybe yeah but there's also a ton of people uh that i've seen even in the comments on the go
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fund me were like yeah i wouldn't have used the word but i'm still going to give her some money
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right because it's worth um it is worth my money to send a message to say we here in america are
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done with cancel culture and we're done with a double standard this is where you know a lot of
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people i i you know people were saying well um you know uh how come black people can say the n-word
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dozens of times a day and it's in it's in every rap song it's in their movies and media and and
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and they're saying it laughing and it's you know and um no no and and they can also say it'd be
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one thing is well we can say it because it's about ourselves well black people also say cracker and
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honky did you did you see the clip i think it was today i wish i would have had time to
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to clip it and put it in for today but it was on piers morgan oh yeah i saw that did you see this
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where there's a panel on there and there's a white woman and two black guys and i think two
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white guys and the white woman is mad about the double standard and piers morgan he's not actually
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hoping she'll say the word but he says to her say the word yes right and so then the liberal black
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guy goes absolutely ballistic don't you tell her don't you tell her it's gonna hurt me yeah but
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but he says that would be an offense against me and he said i'm the only and in the same breath
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i'm the only black guy up here the guy next to me is an uncle tom it's like he cannot have the word
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the n-word said in his presence right but he can revile and slander another guy next to him
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within the same breath correct there is a massive double standard here you're right and then that
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guy i think a little bit later took out a toy gun and pulled the trigger and it had written out a
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flag that said the n-word so which was kind of funny um but the but the point is that's you know
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just giving our audience um the the background yeah so so matt walsh comes out and i think had
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um really good cultural we're gonna show some of his really good cultural analysis in regards to
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this shiloh is it hendrix is that her last name yes and and this shiloh hendrix incident and james
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lindsey of course was not having it um he he did not appreciate that and then ironically he goes on
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jordan peter stein's show who's both matt walsh and jordan are on the daily wire and so it's this
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just this i don't know multi-faceted messy kind of situation that's but it's it's fascinating and so
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what we want to focus on because we've already done an episode on shiloh hendrix
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but what we want to focus on is james lindsey on the episode with jordan peterson talking about
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what it is to be woke right um and i think that james lindsey um you know i watched it and i think
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he did an excellent job yeah i really do uh because some clarity to the conversation yeah
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because what he ultimately portrayed is that um being woke right means nothing and i mean he
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articulated that about as well as anyone could. It was a perfect word salad that demonstrated,
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I think profoundly, that woke right is nothing. And so that's what we're going to be talking about
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in today's episode. I'm going to hand it to you, Michael, and I know we want to get to some clips,
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but go ahead. Well, I think we should jump into that clip here in just a second. So I'll just
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set it up. This is from the beginning of the interview, and Jordan Peterson is basically
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asking Lindsay about this term, woke right, and what it is and where it came from. And, you know,
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if you've been around the internet some, this is a term that maybe is confusing to you. It was a
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bit confusing. It still is a little bit confusing to me. But rest assured, James Lindsay is here
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to help at least sort out the definitions so we have an even playing field. We know what we're
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arguing about. So let us all take great advantage from what he offers here to the public discourse.
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Great. It's a fraught term, right? People see it as paradoxical because you have woke, which they
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associate with left. You have right, which they associate obviously with the right. And so now
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you've got a paradox. And so I've caused myself some trouble by calling a radical segment, not
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the whole right, a radical segment of the right,
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the cluster B personality disorders are presenting
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and psychopathologies, psychopathy itself sometimes,
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all of that kind of feeds upward into this concept of woke,
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which I think we can talk pretty fruitfully about.
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You can present it in terms of right-wing causes
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because it's the pathological expression of an ideology
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or of a belief structure that ultimately is woke.
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The pathology of a belief structure that ultimately is woke.
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So part of the reason James Lindsay can't say what woke right is,
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so i'll i'll take a crack at it um we all remember that the term woke uh that that it uh arose
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during a time where basically because i remember i was uh in acts 29 uh which is a church planting
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network that went woke uh it's the same network that was started by mark driscoll and then kicked
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out mark driscoll and the moment they kicked out mark driscoll they also uh conveniently right at
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the same time abandoned um a lot of orthodoxy um was mark driscoll maybe holding back uh the tide
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of liberal insanity in that movement i mean honestly uh each year that goes by kind of
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vindicates mark driscoll a little bit more and more and more especially within acts 29 it was
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much better with him uh than after he was removed but i i entered in our church entered into acts
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29 in 2014. And I pulled our church out of Acts 29 towards the end of 2018, right after Eric Mason,
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who was one of the board members and a close friend of Matt Chandler, who replaced Mark
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Driscoll as the president of Acts 29. It was right after Eric Mason wrote a book called
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Woke Church. And I remember every single conference and every single speaker at every
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single conference and every panel it was all about being woke and eric mason at this time this is
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before you know the term woke um ended up being you know more of a pejorative because eventually
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because wokeness lost and it handedly lost at the at the you know the um the ballot box in 2024 both
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the electoral and the you know the popular vote um america's really done with wokeness but in 2018
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it was cool you know so eric mason was was you know perfectly fine using that term in the title
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of his book woke church and what's he's insinuating is that the church needs to get woke and so what
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does it mean to be woke well i've read his book and i remember him speaking at the conferences
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it meant to wake up to to something particular to wake up to the social and judicial and systematic
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injustices occurring in america towards people of color right that's what wokeness was to be woke
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was to be awake and awake to what awake to um i see you know i don't i'm not just looking at ones
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and zeros anymore but i can see into the matrix and i'm perfectly aware of the systematic injustice
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towards minorities particularly black people and i would just add that has gone back to the beginning
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of the american project all the way from the very beginning so it wasn't even not just in that
00:23:28.500
right now yeah you're right yeah you're right and that's where 1619 project and all these different
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things um arose and saying like that there's there's a um a revisionist history right of
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america's so not just i'm aware of the system as it currently is in the ways that it's um that
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it's duplicitous and and sinister towards people of color minorities particularly black people but
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that america always has been this way and that our entire nation was founded upon injustice and so
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that's what it meant to be woke it meant to be awake to both the origin and history and founding
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of america in its injustice towards black people and the current present day systems judicially
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and also economically and you know with with corporations and with judges with certain laws
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and how all of it was to favor white people that white people are privileged and that people of
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color minorities particularly black people are at a disadvantage i'm woke meaning i'm awake to that
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reality so when james lindsey here's the point when he says woke right um what he means and he
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can't really just say it out loud because then you know it becomes fairly obvious uh what he's doing
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and how deceitful he's actually being but uh to say it's well it's the same thing it's tomato
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tomato there's woke people on the left and there's woke people on the right well what did it mean to
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be woke the only wokeness that actually exists on the left it was to be aware of injustices towards
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one group of people the people that he's now calling woke on the right are people who are
00:25:11.720
claiming they're they're asserting that there are certain injustices but but they're injustices not
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towards black people not towards minorities but there are certain injustices on the books
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currently in present day against the hegemony against heritage americans and predominantly
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against white americans and so james lindsey looks at that and says tomato tomato you know
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you can be woke in in one direction and you can be woke in the other you can be woke on the left
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you know and say why you know black people are being oppressed in in 2022 you know or you can
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be woke right saying that uh white people are at a systematic disadvantage in universities
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when it comes to acceptance procedures and testing and scores and corporations when it
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comes to their hiring practices and even certain judges especially in blue states if you're i
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don't know if if you're for instance trying to save people from someone who's threatening their
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physical safety on a subway that you know that the law is going to come down on you in a certain way
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that it would not come down on you if you didn't happen to be white and if you know the person that
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you're subduing didn't happen to be black so anybody saying that who's basically just again
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woke meaning awakened anybody who's awakened to certain injustices academically economically
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corporations hiring practices and even judicially in our current moment towards white people not
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people of color not minorities but towards white people anybody who says that james lindsey is
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going to say um they're woke there's just they're just woke on the right uh but what people are not
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doing and a lot of people have followed james lindsey in this rhetoric and they're like oh
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yeah because here's the thing most americans especially most white americans really are not
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racist right so they just they're like can we just please be done we just want to be done talking
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about race we want to be done thinking in racial categories we just yeah and so it's it's actually
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a really it's a really manipulative tactic because what you're doing is you're actually
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playing on you're playing on the goodwill you're taking advantage of the goodwill of your fellow
00:27:31.540
americans predominantly again white americans i mean we have statistics and graphs of of you know
00:27:37.980
the way that the average black person sees themselves in relation to white people and
00:27:43.380
hispanic people and asian people and then the way the average asian sees themselves and the way the
00:27:48.060
average hispanic sees themselves and then the way the average white person does and i i wish we had
00:27:52.900
the chart but it's for the average white person in america um it's it's almost like a line it's
00:27:58.780
you know like where where they view themselves in relation to hispanics blacks and asians
00:28:02.880
and then whites like all four dots are pretty much like just parallel right right in a line
00:28:08.140
and then you look at those three other races that are described in this study um asians and blacks
00:28:15.100
and Hispanics. And for them, it's like they view their own in-group. Blacks view Blacks,
00:28:21.660
their fellow Blacks, here on the spectrum positively. And then they see way, I mean,
0.99
00:28:27.380
it's a pretty wide gap. Here's Hispanics and here's Asians and here's whites. They're the
00:28:33.340
worst. And so my point is that if we're just statistically talking, of course there are
00:28:39.180
exceptions to the rule. I'm speaking in generalities. But in our American context, present
00:28:43.880
day 2025 white people more than any other color more than any other ethnicity or race or whatever
00:28:51.640
framework you want to use um they're the least racially conscious people in the country right
00:28:57.500
race matters the least to white people and pretty much that's the way it's been for 80 years
00:29:03.640
yep that's like like not it's not even it's not even comparable it's like it's not even close
0.53
00:29:08.920
black people think in in dynamics and categories in terms of their blackness yep not every black
00:29:17.660
person i don't think votie balkham thinks that way i don't think thomas soul thinks that way
0.89
00:29:22.080
but again in generalities the average black person is their their color their race is a far bigger
00:29:29.740
deal to them than the average white person that's what i'm saying generalities group dynamics and so
00:29:35.240
it's manipulative going back to my point because what you're doing is you're you're actually taking
00:29:40.200
advantage of the least racist people on the planet yep white americans the least racist people
00:29:51.040
on the planet in fact if they are racist against anyone it's themselves themselves they hate
0.95
00:29:56.780
themselves i mean white people in america literally hate themselves white guilt is a very very real
0.97
00:30:01.940
thing. And that's part of what Matt Walsh was getting at is saying is if this helps us to
00:30:06.260
defeat cancel culture and also to shed and rid ourselves of white guilt and unfounded, unjustified
00:30:15.140
sense of white guilt, then yeah, so be it. Then that would be overall a win. That would be a win.
00:30:23.480
And so all this being said, my point is for James Lindsay and Jordan Peterson,
00:30:27.400
Yeah, just sitting there nodding his head. Oh, so profound. And oh, let's go back to this Lucifer
00:30:32.620
thing again. Lucifer was the first person who's woke. And so now every person on the political
00:30:39.120
right who thinks that maybe we're allowed to have a culture and a country is also woke. And what
00:30:47.380
that means is that they're synonymous with Lucifer, the devil, they're satanic. I mean,
00:30:52.640
just an insane interview absolutely insane interview uh but my whole point is the reason
0.91
00:30:58.420
why james lindsey has picked up steam it's like how can something so moronic and so clearly
0.87
00:31:03.800
manipulative and deceptive pick up steam well here's here's the very simple answer um because
0.96
00:31:10.600
the vast majority of white people in america are incredibly wonderful people that's why yeah that's
00:31:17.800
why it's been successful that's why this whole woke right campaign that is a deceitful manipulative
00:31:24.100
campaign the reason why it's picked up any momentum at all is because white people in america are
00:31:31.200
great this is how they're not racist they they don't want to they just want to be kind and they
00:31:38.220
just want to to think that my fellow americans and it's if you did this with anybody else yeah
00:31:43.800
you would not nobody would be hopping on your bandwagon nobody would be joining your campaign
00:31:49.620
they're only joining your campaign not because you persuaded them not because you can even define
00:31:54.520
the the thing that you're talking about they've jumped on your campaign because you're playing
00:31:59.700
off of their goodwill that's how neo-marxism got sway in america it was because um one of the
00:32:10.960
tactics of the neo-Marxists who came in and through the institutions, it was explicitly stated
00:32:17.580
Americans are kind, compassionate people. Play on that and use that to their detriment because they
00:32:25.040
will want to believe you. They will want to sympathize. They will want to. And this was
00:32:28.560
happening in the 40s and 50s. And this was an intentional tactic that the neo-Marxists used
00:32:34.380
to gain ground and to get their claws into the American society. It was intentionally
00:32:39.680
by going after the goodwill and the good nature
00:33:06.120
which for the record i actually wish this wasn't the case i wish that we had ended slavery another
00:33:13.120
way but we're talking about a country that was willing to end slavery at the cost of 650 000
00:33:19.960
of its sons bleeding out and dying right we're talking about an incredibly benevolent people
00:33:26.060
an incredibly benevolent people and um and and so here's the irony woke right uh catches on
00:33:36.500
and and has experienced some success some momentum for the very same not not another reason
00:33:43.840
but the very precisely the same reason that wokeness on the left the original wokeness the
00:33:51.060
only wokeness that really exists for the same reason that wokeness was successful in the first
00:33:56.520
place back in 2020 and 2021 and 2022 woke right is is getting picking up some steam for the same
00:34:05.880
reason that woke picked up steam uh in the summer of george floyd why because because the only reason
00:34:12.900
that wokeness worked it wasn't just because um it wasn't a better argument it wasn't all 13 percent
00:34:18.320
of black people in the nation joined as one and and that was enough to make um to make uh every
00:34:26.540
single netflix uh original and every tv show and every uh fortune 500 company and and uh actual
00:34:35.220
you know judicial rulings you know and and elections and it's not that 13 percent of the
00:34:41.800
black population was was so united that they were able to exert their total will against the other
00:34:49.800
87 of americans why was wokeness not woke right but wokeness why was it successful in the first
00:34:56.800
place because a ton of white people hopped on board and why did they hop on board because a ton
00:35:03.880
of white people are really kind people right and just the thought that someone besides themselves
00:35:12.420
might be mistreated or getting the short end of the stick um they hated that right they're like
00:35:18.980
oh no i yeah i don't like that i don't like that at all i want everybody to be treated fairly and
00:35:23.580
and i want everyone to have a chance and i'm even willing to give up some of my opportunities and
00:35:28.360
some of my blessings in order to make sure that somebody who maybe might be less fortunate so
00:35:32.800
that they can have those blessings as well that's your typical white person in america it is so
0.68
00:35:38.480
wokeness was successful because because 13 of black people just manhandled the other 87 of the
00:35:46.860
country no because a ton of white people still not by much but the majority of the united states
00:35:52.500
hopped on board because they're sympathetic people and woke right likewise is picking up
00:35:59.420
some momentum and having some success because of the same reason because a lot of white people
00:36:04.880
are saying oh yeah well we don't um we don't want to be extra privileged and we don't and we don't
00:36:12.580
want to play the victim so the same people who who were like yeah um if there's any victim in
00:36:18.620
our country we want to help them out right are also the very same people to say unless we're the
00:36:22.700
victor right we don't want any kind of special uh special treatment we uh because that might
00:36:29.460
disadvantage or be unfair to others who are not like us that's how your average white american
00:36:34.580
thinks again going back to the graph i wish we had it but uh the average white person the way
00:36:38.580
they perceive themselves and their group their in group in comparison with um how they view blacks
00:36:44.260
how they view hispanics and how they view asians it's just a straight line it's just a straight
00:36:48.720
line. They just, they think everyone's the same. Everyone's the same. That is not how the average
00:36:54.380
black person, again, there are exceptions, but in general, that's not how the average black person
0.79
00:36:59.460
thinks. That's not how the average Hispanic thinks. And that's not how the average Asian thinks.
0.90
00:37:04.360
Every other group, ethnic group in America has a strong in-group preference. They will place
00:37:11.840
themselves on one end of the spectrum, that is, the end that is most favorable, and everyone else
00:37:19.920
will be, you know, there'll be a pretty wide chasm between their group and all the other groups,
00:37:26.740
except, with one exception, white people. White people. And so that's for the same reason that I
0.90
00:37:33.380
hated OG wokeness, again, the only wokeness that actually exists, is the same reason that I hate
00:37:39.760
this new fake woke right because the only reason either of them have picked up any momentum or
0.96
00:37:47.560
steam at all is because they they both prey p-r-e-y on white people and take advantage
0.56
00:37:56.320
of the goodwill of some of the most altruistic sympathetic kind good-hearted people in the
0.78
00:38:05.020
entire country so all that being said back to you know the the earlier point i was going to make
00:38:11.140
if wokeness meant being awake and then that you know raises the question awake to what awake to
00:38:16.780
the injustices towards these groups well then woke right right if we're saying that it's just
00:38:22.880
tomato tomato wokeness over here and wokeness over there but it's the same thing that's what
00:38:27.780
james lindsey's trying to convey um well if it's the same thing then woke right would have to be
00:38:32.560
being awake to injustices towards white people towards the hegemony and i just wish that people
00:38:39.460
would stop for one moment and ask a pretty because we can you know we can just settle it right here
00:38:43.940
and now by just asking one question which is well is one of those two narratives true right so woke
00:38:52.340
original wokeness i am awake to the injustices towards minorities predominantly black people
00:38:58.360
And now, woke right, I am awake and aware that there are actual injustices on the books
00:39:04.480
towards the hegemony, the majority, not by much, but still by some, namely white people
0.62
00:39:11.320
So to settle the score, instead of just saying, look, they're both doing the same thing, or
00:39:15.840
they're both using a critical lens, or they're both using Marxist, you know, Hegelian dialect,
00:39:23.060
instead of doing that why don't we just ask hey are one or both or none of these two narratives
00:39:31.260
true right in 2020 were police officers in mass numbers just lining up black people in the street
0.96
00:39:43.120
unarmed black people and executing them right because that was the claim that was the claim
0.78
00:39:47.940
that was the claim so let's just let's just look at it is that true oh well it was a complete and
0.97
00:39:54.960
absolute demonic lie great okay so now let's look over here because because i don't know anybody
00:40:01.820
that james lindsey would call woke right who's saying they're lining up white people right you
00:40:07.180
know um and and have they have firing squads and they're just no i i've never heard that claim
00:40:12.240
right there were you guys you're forgetting it hasn't been that long but i know that all of us
00:40:16.800
we want to move on. We like to forget. You've probably worked really hard to forget the year
00:40:21.360
of our Lord 2020, right? Mostly peaceful riots, you know, and cities are on fire, the summer of
00:40:26.280
love, St. George Floyd. You've probably worked as I have to, you know, to forget it. But let me,
00:40:30.960
you know, walk you down memory lane for a moment. It was not just claims of saying, well, you know,
00:40:36.200
black people don't have some of the same hiring opportunities at these companies as what that
00:40:42.160
would no these were not the claims yeah no the the claims were uh lebron james they're hunting
00:40:47.360
us down in the street and they're doing it in the thousands the thousands the average i remember
00:40:53.240
watching the videos where people were asking they were going and interviewing the average man on
00:40:57.200
the street on the street the average man on the street black person or white person because again
0.99
00:41:01.500
white people are suckers right white they are you know because they're so compassionate they you
0.99
00:41:07.240
know when you say hey they're doing terrible things to this other group that's not you the
1.00
00:41:11.220
typical white person responds by saying oh my goodness that's terrible please take all my money
00:41:15.160
here's my house you know like that's how white people tend to respond because because they're
00:41:19.780
really kind and so at that time in 2020 they would go and they were interviewing you can watch video
00:41:24.900
after video ask a black person ask a white person and they'd say how many people you know in this
00:41:29.660
year annually do you think um how many unarmed black men do you think the police have killed
00:41:36.460
and people were answering in the thousands yeah in the thousands they're like i don't know ten
00:41:41.280
thousand a hundred thousand a trillion a billion i don't know like is it even just here anymore are
00:41:48.520
they sending troops of white people to africa to mow them all down you know like i don't know maybe
00:41:53.060
a billion like i mean these are the answers okay now when we talk about the woke right well it's
00:41:59.380
just the same thing you know uh they're they're been awakened to injustices towards the hegemony
00:42:04.520
towards white yeah okay but what are the claims the claims are uh well when it comes to violent
00:42:10.320
crimes black on white versus white on black there's a 42x multiple okay well that's a really
00:42:19.260
specific claim so let's look it up can we verify it oh on the fbi database we can verify right
00:42:27.260
oh so if anything it might be higher it actually might be it's a conservative number okay all right
00:42:34.280
well, what about hiring practices discriminating against white people, particularly white
00:42:39.480
heterosexual men? Okay. Well, are there any metrics on that? Can we look it up? Oh, look,
00:42:44.360
the corporations themselves are writing articles boasting and bragging in 2023 saying we only
00:42:52.200
hired the top fortune 100, the biggest, top biggest hundred companies in America in 2023
00:43:00.080
wrote an article showed the numbers and said yes we only hired six percent not just white males
00:43:06.780
but white people men and women right six percent and 94 for the whole year with the biggest most
00:43:15.220
successful hundred companies in the country 94 was people of color right minorities oh so yeah
00:43:24.160
2023 was probably economically speaking if you're looking for a job probably a bad year to be white
00:43:30.380
right objectively these are the claims that i'm hearing the woke right make but here's the
00:43:38.740
difference all the claims are substantiated they're valid they're true michael i think that
00:43:46.440
there's an element of this i think everything you said is is right but i think there's an element of
00:43:50.840
this that needs to be considered as well. And that is people objected to Woke 101 or 1.0,
00:44:02.020
not only because of the claims they were making. You know, if there would have been a guy with a
00:44:06.760
sandwich board standing out on the street, making the claims that black people are being hunted down
00:44:12.560
the streets, things like that, people like James Lindsay, they would not have cared.
00:44:19.240
is the fact that the woke movement got so much power
00:44:22.980
that it was actively recreating the system that we live in.
00:44:28.700
And it was, in many ways, unjustly recreating it, right?
00:44:44.360
that they can hold up and write a public article we hire 94 people of color right like like the woke
00:44:51.800
movement gained enough control and enough power and enough influence that fortune 100 companies
00:45:00.120
felt like it was a win in a public um gain for their company to not only engage in those hiring
00:45:07.360
practices, but to publicly virtue signal that fact. And so part of what people reacted to
00:45:14.340
with wokeness was not just the claims, but the fact that it was moving away from what we said
00:45:20.400
in the cold open, enlightenment liberalism, right? And it was changing that system. And I would bet
00:45:27.740
that part of James Lindsay and Jordan Peterson's critiques or wanting to kind of adopt this new
00:45:34.940
term woke right is not just because of the claim like you can't argue with the numbers about the
00:45:39.300
hiring and the crime statistics and things like that those things are are not things that they
00:45:44.600
could like you just can't debate that right right what they are i think also upset about is the idea
00:45:51.660
that maga or dissident right or new ascendant right whatever we're calling this whole movement
00:45:59.420
is threatening the system and the system of enlightenment individualism, which prizes
00:46:07.900
secularism, lack of objective morality, at least in the public square, not just kind
00:46:17.140
of the individualism of the innate dignity of the human being, but a radical individualism.
00:46:22.360
These things were being threatened by the original woke and they're being threatened
00:46:48.160
is he sees people on the right talking about groups,
00:46:52.040
talking about righting wrongs on a systemic level.
00:46:56.720
And he says, oh, that's exactly the same thing.
00:47:09.100
or even what are perceived to be similar threats
00:47:13.120
to the system, it has to be called the same thing.
00:47:16.340
Pejorative term, he won and the anti-woke people won
00:47:25.420
at the ascendant right, and it does gain a lot of credit, like you said, because a lot of people
00:47:29.960
have been trained to stay away from that word woke. And if there's people on the right that
00:47:34.200
are woke now, I want nothing to do with them. Yes, that's exactly what's happening. And it's
00:47:38.660
so deceitful, because it's not the same, not even close. But James knows what he's doing.
00:47:48.800
And I think there's a lot of guys on whatever you want to call dissident right, ascendant right,
00:47:54.360
new christian right um guys in our broader camp um who don't really want to say what i'm about to
00:48:01.820
say which is um james lindsey is having some success yes he is and someone asked why we're
00:48:08.540
talking about this and it's because he's having some success right so i understand that you know
00:48:12.700
for strategic purposes in terms of tactics it might be more advantageous to just um to just
00:48:19.720
mock and laugh you know um and and try to kind of laugh james lindsey off the stage that's actually
00:48:26.200
you know i think some guys are doing that uh strategically they're doing that um on purpose
00:48:31.680
because they think that's the best method um and i think that's fine they can take that strategy if
00:48:37.020
they want to take that strategy but um but i actually want to address it a little bit more
00:48:41.380
seriously because um yeah uh james lindsey is having some success and uh and if you're like
0.96
00:48:49.000
how and why well um i regret to inform you that uh white women exist
00:48:55.400
and as long as white women exist in our feminized culture um then uh yeah then guys like james
00:49:05.160
lindsey will be wildly successful because you're talking about the most empathetic toxic empathy
00:49:12.520
group of people on the planet in history probably history i can't say that conclusively but probably
1.00
00:49:18.680
yeah so as long as white women um are uh are a category they exist and because of feminism have
1.00
00:49:27.840
as much power as they have um then uh then yeah we we have a major uh kink in uh in the chain mail
1.00
00:49:38.560
in the armor that is vulnerable and susceptible to the pulling on heartstrings kind of tactics
00:49:50.340
that James Lindsay is using. So let's go to our first commercial break and then we'll come right
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all right so what we want to do moving on into this segment is talk a little bit about
00:51:31.860
who are some of these so-called woke right we want to mark and avoid them we want to give you
00:51:37.920
guys a public warning let's stay away at all costs yeah that's what we're going to do for sure
00:51:42.560
so we're going to take a listen to a second clip from the peterson interview
00:51:47.920
and then we're going to move into some of the responses on twitter some of these quote-unquote
00:51:52.600
woke right as they're reacting to this whole situation so let's roll the second clip who is
00:51:56.840
it angered well this is the thing i this is what has has i'll use this word this is a heavy word
00:52:03.080
for the beginning of a conversation but this is what has dismayed me i knew it would anger the
00:52:07.960
people that it applies to in my opinion because who would want to be called woke right first of
00:52:13.080
all and second of all it limits their ability to interact because they have a label that's not a
00:52:17.960
good label that sticks to them but what i'm dismayed over is that almost the i hate to use
00:52:24.920
this word so glibly but the what i refer to sort of as a as a bookmark as elite maga or the um the
00:52:32.840
the more um who's who of the conservative movement seems entirely captured by this as well and they
00:52:40.600
also became upset saw me as a turncoat and a traitor against the movement
00:52:44.360
so apparently it's all the smart right-wing people who are now woke right right uh man so even even
00:52:53.980
his um categorization of who it is was not even all that particular helpful so let's take a look
00:52:58.980
at twitter and some of the people who have said okay i guess i'm woke right so um nate let's go
00:53:03.220
to the image number one this is uh jack posobiec uh commenting on matt walsh which is matt walsh's
00:53:10.560
take is hilarious. Matt Walsh says this. He says, I'm told that I'm now a member of the woke right.
00:53:15.800
I still don't know what that means, but I'm hoping the perks are good. When are the meetings? Do we
00:53:21.100
get a Costco discount? Someone needs to send me a brochure or something. So classic Matt Walsh.
00:53:26.620
Classic. Tongue in cheek. Yep. Let's go to the second image there, Nate. So here, Jack Posobiec
00:53:33.940
starting to offer a little bit of helpful assessment.
00:53:37.520
He says, woke right is a label used by embarrassed liberals
00:53:42.380
to gatekeep and de-platform actual conservatives.
00:53:46.260
Okay, so he's saying that in response to Matt Walsh again.
00:53:52.960
is Matt Walsh's full comment that he says about that.
00:54:03.400
I've been denounced as racist and, quote, woke right for it by many, quote, conservatives,
00:54:09.000
but not a single one of them has made any attempt to engage with my actual arguments.
00:54:13.560
I don't know what the bleep woke right is supposed to mean, but I do know that reacting
00:54:20.140
emotionally without engaging with the substance of the argument seems pretty woke to me.
00:54:25.800
And that is such an insightful point where he says, reacting emotionally against something
00:54:33.320
that you don't like, out-engaging the substance of the argument is the epitome of woke. At least
00:54:39.540
it was the epitome of woke tactics back in 2020, 2019. Right. Like I've yet to see anybody
00:54:45.200
thoughtfully. No, no. We saw the clip earlier. Engage. Thoughtfully, keyword. I've yet to see
00:54:52.740
anybody thoughtfully engage jeremy carl in his book the unprotected class where he keeps a detailed
00:55:00.400
log of receipts actual receipts and all the ways that white people particularly white men in america
00:55:07.920
have been disenfranchised and disadvantaged both in the realm of academia also corporately with
00:55:14.840
hiring processes and jobs and then also even judicially in multiple court cases and he keeps
00:55:21.760
this log and shows the receipts and shows what's going on not just once upon a time but today
00:55:27.460
what's currently the case and nobody has even attempted to dismantle it on the basis of
00:55:35.940
substance because they can't right because it's true so so that's really what it is it's a
00:55:42.160
deceptive tactic of taking a pejorative something that really is wrong wokeness and then attach it
00:55:50.080
it and saying uh to to certain people that you don't like and and you know we'll get a little
00:55:56.500
bit more into you know who are these woke right people right allegedly you know who are being
00:56:01.260
labeled as woke right but but before that it's worth mentioning you know who is doing the labeling
00:56:07.100
so not just who's labeled as woke right but who is labeling others as woke right and this is the
00:56:12.780
common denominator and you need to be aware of it who are the people who are using this rhetoric
00:56:17.800
This pejorative, to silence, that's what it is.
00:56:20.040
It's to smear and silence and isolate a group of people that they don't like
00:56:33.460
It's all the liberals who voted for Democrats for the last 30 years,
00:56:41.760
but eventually, and very, very recently, in the big scheme of things,
00:56:46.940
just in the last few years, found themselves in the broader conservative side of the aisle
00:56:54.060
politically because although they love every liberal principle and voted for every liberal
00:57:00.820
policy for the last 10 years, 20 years, 30 years, 40 years, they eventually found themselves on the
00:57:10.260
political right for two reasons, because I want to be fair here. One, because the left that was
00:57:15.980
always demonic um eventually got cocky and and showed its hand and pushed too far right right
00:57:25.580
so these are liberals who agree with every liberal liberal policy you can imagine except for they
00:57:31.560
agree with the presuppositions except for mutilating children yep that's about it yeah
0.97
00:57:36.580
once they started uh mutilating kids and chopping off their genitals then these guys became right
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00:57:44.180
wing. So who's doing the labeling? Bill Maher, James Lindsay. It's that crew. It's all these
0.92
00:57:52.680
guys who have been traditionally liberal and traditionally Democrats for a very, very, very
00:57:59.480
long time, and then, you know, would claim my party left me. But I said two reasons. So here's
00:58:04.880
the other one. One, the left lost its mind. Second, the right has progressively more and more moved
00:58:13.460
left. So these guys, like James Lindsay, it's not just that he finds himself on the political right
00:58:20.660
now because the left went so far left. It's not just that here's James Lindsay and the left went
00:58:26.400
over here, but the right also moved. And we have to acknowledge that. The reason why James Lindsay
00:58:32.340
fancies himself to be on the right side of the aisle politically and culturally is not just
00:58:40.220
because of the left's demonic strategies, but because of the right's compromise. The right
00:58:46.660
that would actually look at James Lindsay and say, one of us, one of us. We should have never done
00:58:52.960
that. We should have never done that. No, you're not one of us. You're an atheist. You hate God.
00:59:00.600
You hate Christ. You're to the left of Bill Clinton. No, you're not a conservative. Of course
00:59:09.600
not and real quick going earlier in in the first clip we played where he said and some of them
00:59:14.060
don't uh say they're even conservatives and he says that like it's a bad thing yeah just for the
00:59:18.580
record uh yes there are some who who have dropped the moniker of conservatism to describe themselves
00:59:24.820
but the reason why is because conservative in many cases has come to mean uh simply conserving
00:59:32.340
the present, because conservatives did not succeed in conserving for the last, I don't
00:59:43.180
So because conservatives have conserved nothing, many conservatives today, when asked, you
00:59:52.280
What they're ultimately trying to conserve is not our nation's founding.
00:59:55.800
It's certainly not the 13 colonies, and it's certainly not Christianity.
01:00:02.340
What they're trying to conserve is yesterday's victory from the Democrats.
01:00:10.660
Like, today's conservative is conserving yesterday's liberals' victory.
01:00:17.320
So when they say, well, I'm just a conservative, when you ask, when press, what are you trying
01:00:27.540
that includes um pornography as as a form of free speech that includes all kinds of degeneracy so
01:00:37.140
so to be fair some of the guys on on our side of the aisle who are saying yeah i'm not a conservative
01:00:43.780
that's that's why that's that's what they mean what they mean is no i'm not just trying to
01:00:48.840
conserve the status quo aka 20th century liberalism at its peak uh the the the chickens coming home
01:00:57.100
to roost but instead i actually want to go back so i don't want to conserve i actually want to
01:01:01.840
progress um but they're not going to call themselves progressives because obviously that
01:01:05.840
would be uh confusing because they're not wanting to progress to the left but they're wanting to
01:01:09.920
progress to the right progressing not forward but backward you can't say regress because that's
01:01:15.940
negative because that sounds terrible yeah so they're but what they're trying to do is not merely
01:01:19.720
conserve today, but actually uncover and rediscover yesterday, going back and working back. So that's
01:01:29.080
why they've kind of dropped some, not all, but some on the right have dropped the conservative
01:01:33.900
label. Yeah. Something in what you were saying, Joel, I just wanted to give a pastoral individual
01:01:41.520
note. If your neighbor is an atheist and he's willing to have a relationship with you,
01:01:46.180
that is that that's not what we're talking about here right like until you determine that he is
01:01:53.280
rejecting the gospel avidly um if the lord has placed someone in your life who is an atheist
01:01:58.940
like james like i would have had no problem with michael a fallon saying look i just happened to
01:02:05.000
get along with james i'm going to share the gospel with him on an individual level i'll have him over
01:02:08.920
my house a couple times a year we'll grill you know in the summer great what we're talking about
01:02:13.780
here is making these guys central parts of the resistance effort and the movement and the fight
01:02:22.700
and i get it like we were desperate for people at the time we really the pastors most of the pastors
01:02:28.740
i i was not there yet you know it's it's to my shame that james lindsey was seeing these things
01:02:34.100
more clearly than i was back at that time right so i i understand why um on the other hand why
01:02:40.380
I wasn't O'Fallon partnering with Votie Bauckham, John Harris, people like that.
01:02:45.280
So, yeah, there are reasons why there was a co-belligerency at the time.
01:02:52.180
Whatever we want to say about that time, we're certainly past that time now.
01:02:57.700
We have Christian men who are rising up, who are seeing clearly, who are speaking clearly.
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01:03:02.780
Not as many as we would like, but certainly more than we had at the time.
01:03:06.360
So those are the guys who are using the woke right label.
01:03:10.100
So Bill Maher and James Lindsay and now Jordan Peterson, apparently.
01:03:15.280
In terms of those who have been labeled woke right, it would be like the tweets that we
01:03:23.880
Matt Walsh, apparently now, is being included underneath this banner.
01:03:29.040
Orin McIntyre, James Lindsay despises him and has labeled him woke right for at least
01:03:38.500
And, you know, Orrin McIntyre was one of the speakers at our conference that we put on
01:03:45.240
And I can assure you, talking with him, you know, both on stage and a panel, but also
01:03:50.440
behind the scenes privately, Orrin McIntyre is, he's just your traditionalist.
01:03:56.900
He's just, hey, let's just get back to our founding.
01:04:01.960
He just wants, you know, like he's not a revolutionary.
01:04:05.640
but that's you know when you're when you're assessing something those are some of the
01:04:10.120
questions i think that are helpful to ask some of the you know diagnostics to to tell whether or not
01:04:15.640
something is valid um okay so with your idea of woke right would george washington be woke right
01:04:22.960
right would um andrew jackson be woke right would john adams be woke right would thomas
01:04:29.720
jefferson be woke right and if james lindsey was honest the answer would be an emphatic yes
01:04:34.780
All of the founders of our country would absolutely, by James Lindsay's definition, be woke right.
01:04:48.780
They all recognized distinctions and differences among peoples.
01:04:56.100
They, not so much Thomas Jefferson, he was a deist,
01:05:00.840
But in the case of George Washington and John Adams, they were devout Christians and didn't mince words in regards to their faith and saw themselves as building a Christian nation with a Christian founding.
01:05:21.120
All these things that James Lindsay decries, he wants you to think it's a bunch of fringe radicals that just cropped up overnight that our country is entirely foreign to, that we've never seen the likes of.
01:05:43.420
a bunch of neo-Nazis who want to just destroy the West
01:05:59.080
When he says woke right, he means anybody before the 1980s.
01:06:08.060
Yep. Yep. Which is, I mean, that's even within his, his lifespan. It's not like we're going back
01:06:15.740
into portions of history that are so long ago that they've been lost to time and forgotten.
01:06:22.540
We're not even going back that far. These are perspectives that, okay, if you want to go back
01:06:28.040
to the founding, great, but they've been in America, predominant ideas much more recently
01:06:33.180
than that. Not that long ago, not that long ago. And one of the, one of the things that I've called
01:06:39.200
our time, and I hope it's changing, but I've called the time that we live in the time of the
01:06:43.620
great forgetting. We have forgotten so much about our country, our nation, how we used to be.
01:06:51.620
The only encouragement to me is that if it can be forgotten that quickly, I'm hoping that it can be
01:06:58.180
remembered quickly as well by a group of motivated people who are committed to the truth and committed
01:07:14.340
So apparently now even J.D. Vance is woke right.
01:07:31.520
who himself is reacting to what J.D. Vance said.
01:07:55.080
This is not, quote, genocidal in the slightest.
01:08:02.760
Because J.D. Vance, in commenting on Ilhan Omar's interview, which we'll listen to, said this.
01:08:15.920
So the vice president says that what Ilhan Omar was calling for and saying and talking about was genocidal language.
01:08:32.600
that it is even the vice president of the United States
01:08:43.620
So this is an interview with Representative Ilhan Omar
01:08:56.080
I would say our country should be more fearful of white men across our country because they
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are actually causing most of the deaths within this country.
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We should be profiling, monitoring and creating policies to fight the radicalization of white
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01:09:20.400
deport it's we should be deporting oh my word omar yeah that uh cj angle raised a good point
01:09:32.820
i saw him um a post on x recently where he was retweeting that that clip that you just saw
01:09:39.360
and he said uh just a friendly you know daily reminder that ilhan omar um that she immigrated
01:09:48.260
to the u.s legally she attained citizenship in the u.s legally and she also was elected to civil
01:09:57.800
office in the u.s legally and so for everyone who's like you know like uh no more illegal
01:10:05.240
immigration but uh but even more legal like no um it is it is worth noting yeah that you have
01:10:14.020
a woman holding a high civil office in our country who is a foreigner. One, she's a woman.
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Two, she's a foreigner. And three, she is asserting that white men who make up a sizable
01:10:33.920
portion of the native population of this country, that they're a threat to the safety
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and that they should be profiled and monitored.
01:10:48.720
And it seems as though she's implying surveilled
01:11:12.240
and then also by children, we don't, I mean, J.D. Vance stands out not just because of some of his
01:11:19.500
views, common sense views, but you know another reason J.D. Vance stands out? Because he's one
01:11:29.000
of the only significant politicians who's who's a white male under the age of 140 you know like i
01:11:42.600
mean that's that's what we have we have women in leadership children in leadership foreigners in
01:11:47.960
leadership and then yeah oh we have white men leading yeah like mitch mitch o'connell like right
01:11:53.980
Like they're literally having a stroke at the podium as they're speaking because they're 140 years old.
01:12:03.480
So to have one white male, heterosexual white male, in any meaningful position of power under the age of 80 is actually somewhat rare.
01:12:16.580
And you're talking about a country that is still 60% white people, and yet we're saying that this is somewhat rare.
01:12:33.720
So that really, for anybody who's one of you, so who's the rest of the woke?
01:12:38.840
James Lindsay said Tucker Carlson is woke right.
01:12:41.740
There are people saying that J.D. Vance is woke right.
01:12:46.580
Jack Prasobiak, woke right, Warren McIntyre, woke right, pretty much, again, anybody, if you're
01:12:53.140
trying to define it, it'd be anybody who thinks in any cultural, political, or religious terms
01:12:58.940
before the 1980s. Right. Woke right. Right. Right. So basically anyone who is in any way
01:13:07.440
paleoconservative. Correct. Yeah. Yeah. If you think of the father of woke rightness,
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01:13:18.020
They for sure would say that Pat Buchanan was woke right
01:13:25.940
on certain mainline consensus historical views.
01:13:43.720
uh, but a people, particular people in a particular place. Uh, so anybody who thinks in
01:13:48.660
those terms, who thinks that, um, that nationhood, uh, actually exists, that it's actually a thing
01:13:55.880
that's just not, it's not merely a set of propositions, but, uh, that, that there are
01:14:00.640
actual nations that represent people and places and that you can't just, you know, that people
01:14:08.040
are not like widgets you can't just switch them out um you know like when when when somebody's
01:14:14.280
saying the woke right uh their view of the world is that there are americans and i've said it before
01:14:19.740
i'll say it again potential americans right so who lives in india 1.3 billion potential americans
01:14:26.580
that's that's who lives in india um these are people who think that you can simply move here
01:14:33.460
touch the magic soil and repeat the magical incantation you know the words repeat you know
01:14:41.500
the declaration of independence and affirm the constitution and presto uh that all of a sudden
01:14:48.880
like like a spell was cast that you become as american as apple pie you're just as american
01:14:55.360
as george washington um ilhan omar and michael you might disagree with me on on this point and
01:15:02.480
feel free to push back um ilhan omar in my assessment is not an american i would say
01:15:10.720
we have a problem because that word means two things now yes it means a legal citizen of america
01:15:18.180
so in that sense we have granted her the right of being an american legally but no like as a people
01:15:25.160
no she is not no no and and the problem is most people this is how far we've come most people when
01:15:33.580
you say is she an american they're not thinking of is is she part of the people of america most
01:15:40.660
people their default way of thinking about the organization of a people in a place is the
01:15:47.020
political um reality the governmental system and the uh the legal citizenship question that's what
01:15:56.240
most people default to very few people um is their first inclination when they think of what you know
01:16:02.860
an american do they think of the the people that who have been here for a long time the culture
01:16:08.040
the lineage the ancestry all they think of is are they legally citizens of america and that's part
01:16:14.780
of the problem like we need to change the perception even of when we say is she an american
01:16:19.520
it would be obvious if you line it up with you know land lineage all of those things no she's not
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01:16:27.460
but because our first inclination is to default to the only category that matters is a legal
01:16:32.660
declaration of citizenship and and apparently you're good and and that's what i mean when i
01:16:38.360
say that there's only two categories of people yep on the planet um americans and potential
01:16:44.340
americans because if that's what ultimately um suffices for being an american is just attaining
01:16:53.620
anyone who attains american citizenship and that is pretty much how we define it these days that's
01:16:59.300
not how it was always defined but but in our our modern sensibilities uh in the name of liberalism
01:17:06.060
that's how we've defined it is pretty much anybody who attains american citizenship
01:17:10.420
is an american well by that definition then then every non-current non-american um is a potential
01:17:18.940
american right there's not one person on the planet who does not have the potential
01:17:24.600
to become an american right at the drop of a hat whereas i would say no um i i will never ever ever
01:17:33.880
ever be a somalian right even if i wanted to and lord knows i don't right lord knows i don't but if
01:17:41.500
i did i got hit on the head really really hard by ilhan omar or something i don't know something
01:17:46.560
happened um it's not just that i don't have a desire it's an impossibility that's right i will
01:17:52.520
never be somalian i will never be pakistani i i will never be um sudanese i i i'm because i'm not
01:18:01.040
because to be a particular people means something.
01:18:07.740
Now, that's not to say that someone who's immigrated here,
1.00
01:18:24.400
that would just be turning back the clock four years.
01:18:31.580
30 to 40 million would just be going back, you know, pre-Biden administration.
01:18:37.340
But if we could somehow deport a bunch of people and stop both legal and certainly illegal
01:18:44.260
immigration, then those who are here legally and have been here longer than, you know,
01:18:51.720
15 minutes, those who immigrated here 20, 30 years ago from India or wherever it may
01:18:58.280
be i would argue that they too first generation immigrants uh that they will never be american
01:19:05.000
in the truest sense of what it is that doesn't mean they're not an american citizen but they
01:19:10.240
will never be an american in the truest sense of the word particular people in particular place
01:19:14.880
however that's not to say that their line would never produce eventually true americans because
01:19:23.360
that's how people are forged that's how people have always been forged no nation is permanently
01:19:29.800
static yep now there are a lot of nations that aren't suicidal like ours so so there's you know
01:19:36.580
a lot more you know solidarity and and stability than our nation has experienced in the last 50
01:19:44.800
years certainly the last five years um so there are a lot of nations that they're not static no
01:19:50.360
nation is static but there are a lot a lot of nations that are at least more stabilized right
01:19:54.660
they actually have borders they actually practice you know uphold their borders and they don't let
01:19:59.140
in floods and floods and floods of immigrants right um but but my point is that you know
01:20:04.480
historically speaking no nation is perfectly static and what i mean by that is that every
01:20:10.060
nation is within within reason every nation is in flux every nation has people that leave
01:20:17.460
and every nation has people that come and when someone comes immigrates legally to a nation
01:20:24.240
traditionally they would assimilate they wouldn't just start enclaves of you know and here we have
01:20:33.340
a a somalian you know camp within within america no they would they would spread out
01:20:41.540
they would assimilate they would learn the language learn the customs um in many cases
01:20:46.700
especially when you think of Israel according to the old covenant people would convert you know
01:20:52.340
they would actually become worshipers of Yahweh they would convert religiously they would intermarry
01:21:00.760
over time eventually they would intermarry and and so so then eventually like when you're thinking
01:21:06.820
of David who becomes you know the king of Israel the second king in its history after Saul who
01:21:13.100
ultimately failed. So David, who's in many ways, I mean, he's the quintessential king in all of
01:21:18.420
Israel's history of kings, a man after God's own heart. And he is, in every sense of the word,
01:21:26.720
a true Israelite. And yet in his lineage, he has Ruth. Ruth marries Boaz. They have a son,
01:21:35.260
Obed. Obed begets Jesse, and Jesse begets David. But by the time you get to David,
01:21:44.400
It's like three, you know, to Obed, to Jesse, to David.
01:21:49.200
But by the time you get to that third generation, third and fourth generation, what you have
1.00
01:21:55.120
at that point, because Ruth doesn't notice, she's a Moabite.
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01:21:59.120
Number one, she doesn't bring in her Moabite idols and false gods and continue to worship
0.91
01:22:05.620
She says, your God will be my God and your people will be my people.
0.99
01:22:08.300
and she doesn't come in with her Moabite husband and with 50,000 other Moabites and then set up
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camp right in the middle of Israel where they never even learn how to speak Hebrew and keep
01:22:20.460
their own language and their own liturgies, their own religion, their own customs, their own culture,
0.80
01:22:25.620
their own... And no, she comes in, number one, through intermarriage. She marries an Israelite,
0.56
01:22:32.320
boaz so she marries an israelite and then her children her child obed is 50 israelite and then
01:22:42.020
you have 75 with jesse and then you have 87.5 with david so by the time you get to david
0.54
01:22:50.180
he doesn't he's not a moabite right no not in any sense no he probably doesn't even
01:22:57.160
have much knowledge about moab's customs or culture or language probably doesn't even speak
01:23:03.420
whatever language ruth previously spoke uh he certainly doesn't worship moabite gods he's not
01:23:08.440
moabite in any religious sense he is a true blue red-blooded israelite and every and and therefore
01:23:15.440
he's fit to rule ilhan omar is not david do you see the difference audience there's a difference
01:23:27.820
and their great-grandchild being elected in civil office.
01:23:47.480
of the native population of the country she's come to
01:23:50.120
and then being exalted into a high civil office.
01:23:53.440
right all in one lifetime in one generation yeah do you not see how insane yeah that is i mean and
01:24:00.320
you use the word suicidal self-destructive that um she she it's not like she came and she loved
01:24:08.200
america so much and you know her parents fled communism or she fled communism and so she was
01:24:14.960
just so indebted and she wants to embody the the spirit and the soul of everything that america is
01:24:19.680
no she hates this country yeah right like on top of all of that she hates this country
01:24:24.880
and and one of the things that we have to to just realize is the time that we live in and i don't
01:24:30.160
have any great answers i mean we we want you know many many deportations and the reality is that's
01:24:36.280
probably not going to happen anytime probably not so all of this you know we we get that there's not
01:24:42.080
great answers but one of the things we just have to realize is nations have always been somewhat
01:24:47.240
static but what we're dealing with right now is a super compressed time frame and a huge number
0.95
01:24:56.360
of um you know immigrants in intermarrying and intermixing not even intermarrying but this is
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01:25:03.300
at a rate and an amount that supersedes anything that happened in history right right um even when
0.60
01:25:09.720
it was at low slower speeds well the only time real quick that it ever happened in history
01:25:14.280
and my knowledge is when a nation was conquered that's right yeah and i would say in many ways
01:25:20.900
our nation is being conquered yeah i was going to say even in history when there were lower rates
01:25:26.780
of intermixing you know it happened in england there were multiple there were like five or six
01:25:31.420
different peoples that formed together to to create the english people that we know of today
01:25:36.940
but that happened over hundreds and hundreds of years and the amount of people was much much lower
01:25:54.800
not necessarily right at the beginning from the founding,
01:26:00.040
We had the period where all the Irish came.
1.00
01:26:10.920
than historically would have happened in continental Europe.
01:26:18.560
we are exponentially less sure of who we are as a people now
01:26:26.640
the identity of a people would be congealing and coalescing.
01:26:30.000
Yes, but we are going the exact opposite direction
01:26:35.280
So that was my point in bringing up the example of the Irish
01:26:40.780
Those, at the time, posed massive challenges as well.
01:26:46.000
A big part of that being not just the different peoples and customs, but also religion, because America, its founding, was distinctly not just Christian, but Protestant, an Anglo-Protestant culture.
01:26:57.940
That is the founding culture of these United States, is an Anglo, so not just Western, right?
01:27:04.020
It's certainly Western, but it's a particular subset of Western society, Anglo, British.
01:27:25.840
And when the Italians came, there were problems.
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01:27:32.560
They became mob bosses in New York, right?
1.00
01:27:35.520
Like, the Italians didn't necessarily assimilate super well initially.
0.99
01:27:43.020
And so I'm just saying that this is part of our history that we've had.
01:27:47.740
So we're not pretending that, you know, we've just had this stable country with, you know, with this homogenous stock from the very beginning.
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01:27:57.580
And then all of a sudden, you know, there's this, you know, the floodgates have been opened.
0.50
01:28:02.080
And no, we recognize that, I mean, it is unique when a country, you know, it's different than European countries.
01:28:08.920
When you literally discover a massive land mass, it's just different.
01:28:16.160
People, you know, because we actually needed people to come.
01:28:19.680
We needed waves of people to come because at that point, they weren't just immigrants.
01:28:27.400
They weren't just coming to inherit something that was already constructed and built and going to be extended and given to them, but they were going to come for opportunity to build something.
01:28:37.780
And people still use that language and say, well, that's what we're doing today.
01:28:41.660
Yeah, you're coming for the opportunity to take somebody else's stuff.
01:28:46.840
You know, people initially with the first waves of immigration and the founding of our nation, they were coming to pioneer, you know, the wilderness.
01:28:59.700
Yeah, half your kids dying to get dysentery, you know, to be killed by indigenous peoples who worship false demon gods, you know.
1.00
01:29:07.900
And if they were fortunate and favored by God, then maybe with their bare hands to build a cabin in the middle of the woods, hope to not be eaten by wild animals, and they might live long enough for their posterity to eventually grow old and have children of their own.
1.00
01:29:39.060
And even with the immigrants and ways of immigration historically,
0.99
01:29:43.260
what America would do is it would ingest a bunch of Irish or a bunch of Italians,
0.99
01:29:54.120
and there would be time allotted for assimilation to take place.
01:29:57.580
But when it's just wave after wave after wave after wave,
01:30:01.740
and it's not just from European nations like Italy or Ireland,
01:30:05.860
But it's Somalia, and it's Haiti, and it's India, and it's all over, and it's third world countries, and it's different languages, and it's different religions, not just Catholic and Protestant, but where it's now Christian and voodoo.
0.74
01:30:23.280
And you have them coming in and coming in in waves and masses and setting up enclaves with no intent of ever, ever assimilating.
0.95
01:30:39.200
Not settlers who coming to a new frontier in order to build something for themselves, but to take an inheritance that was accrued by someone else.
01:30:47.960
That is a nation that is in the process of committing suicide.
01:31:01.720
is not based on the number of voters in a district or in a state.
01:31:06.400
It's based on the total number of people living there.
01:31:09.420
And so one of the reasons why immigration has been pushed so strongly
01:31:14.020
is to get places like California to have just more masses of people living there.
01:31:20.080
how many are here and they say there's 24 of us here right california gets more representation
01:31:25.220
um in the federal elections they get more of the electoral yes yeah and and but not only that they
01:31:32.160
get more apportioned apportionment of the house of representatives right like the senate doesn't
01:31:36.900
change but um the electoral vote percentage and the representatives does and the second thing is
01:31:42.660
and i don't i don't know the history here but i'm guessing we didn't have very many first generation
01:31:49.280
immigrants when the italians were coming over and the irish were coming over and the chinese were
01:31:54.600
coming over from the west who were immediately being elected to federal office correct and the
01:32:00.500
fact that that is now a possibility and not only that but there's money and whole communities who
01:32:06.840
are willing to elect these first generation immigrants into political office is totally
01:32:12.300
different than the way it used to be as well right agreed um have we gone to our last commercial
01:32:17.920
break? No, we need to hit that. Let's go to our last commercial break, and then we'll come back
01:32:20.800
and let's deal with the super chat. Some of you guys have been generous, and we appreciate it.
01:32:25.460
That's one of the ways that this ministry is able to continue. All of you guys interacting in the
01:32:30.360
chat is a huge blessing, but especially those of you who are, even if it's small, just five bucks
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willing to do a super chat. We appreciate that, and we always, in our third segment, try to—we
01:32:40.460
can't get to all the questions in the chat, so what we do is we prioritize the super chat. So if
01:32:45.580
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01:32:50.740
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1.00
01:35:11.320
We are going to wrap up here and land the plane.
0.99
01:35:35.780
She was doxxed, and verbal assault attempts made upon her and her child,
01:35:39.960
her life, and her children's lives are being threatened.
0.53
01:35:42.700
Yes, she deserves sympathy, not the migrant and the thief.
01:35:46.360
Yeah, so we would agree that the sympathy ought to be placed with her,
01:35:51.120
not with this so-called victim who was stealing out of her purse.
01:35:55.200
Absolutely, and that's why we, just like Matt Walsh,
01:36:05.380
and supporting her that doxing for this type of issue
01:36:13.300
and doxing to that degree of social security number
01:36:16.980
and address and school and extended family members
01:36:25.600
hey, open season, somebody go and rough her up,
01:36:31.760
and maybe one of them die, then, you know, so be it.
01:36:43.660
and to show your sympathy through financial generosity,
01:36:47.780
we support 100% and we've never said otherwise.
01:36:56.000
He says, Peterson puzzles me as he's an honest, decent man.
01:37:01.480
structure but still a hard leftist on cultural and social issues yep agreed and um earl starbucks
01:37:08.260
second one thanks very much um two dollars he says we need a 50-year moratorium on immigration
01:37:12.900
that was stephen wolf's uh solution um i said in my book biblically here on the table i said we
01:37:19.140
might need like two generations right or a couple of generations and biblically a generation's 40
01:37:24.600
years so i i tend to think 50 is a nice number in our 100 year cycle but it might it might need
01:37:30.500
to be longer yeah maybe 80 years yeah and history does kind of seem to have this 80 year pattern
01:37:35.440
yeah like you go 80 years back from here like it's like every 80 years it seems like there's
01:37:41.320
some kind of catastrophic major um historic event so you go back 80 years and you have you know
01:37:47.380
world war ii yep i go back 80 years from that you have the civil war go back 80 years from that you
01:37:52.340
have the war for independence um and um and we're kind of at that 80 year mark and i would not be
01:37:58.340
surprised certainly not um prescribing it not hoping for it but in terms of predicting not what
01:38:04.900
i want but what what may be the case uh we do seem like like the the deck is is set and ripe
01:38:13.180
um for some kind of significant moment that um that that may be um maybe messy and it seems like
01:38:22.480
when you read judges that seems to be about the pattern it was kind of a two-year rotating cycle
01:38:27.440
One generation would get judged, then the next generation would forget,
01:38:33.540
And that does seem to be kind of, even in the Old Covenant Israel,
01:38:38.720
a more or less loose pattern that we see there as well.
01:38:58.700
But she said, Pastor Joel, with all due respect,
1.00
01:39:03.480
I'm a first-generation immigrant, and I am more patriotic,
01:39:07.100
more knowledgeable of USA history than most white women
01:39:15.200
Also, the next comment was, I renounce my Mexican citizenship
01:39:18.440
to come here and become an American, to gain an American citizenship.
01:39:25.080
Ruth was not keeping one foot in each of these two camps of Moab in Israel.
01:39:31.580
She doesn't say, your people will be my people in addition to the Moabites,
01:39:36.080
and your God will, I'll put him on the shelf in the pantheon of all my false Moabite gods.
0.93
01:39:41.500
There wasn't just her laying claim to Israel, Israel's God and her people,
0.97
01:39:48.520
but it was also simultaneously a renouncing of her previous false gods.
0.60
01:40:22.240
because it seems like your comment is an objection to something that I said.
01:40:26.260
Well, you said that Ilhan Omar would never be an American.
0.65
01:40:32.560
then I just want to say from the bottom of my heart,
01:40:43.620
And because I'm not going to have unequal weights and unequal measures,
01:40:47.840
and I want to apply that consistently across the board,
01:40:51.140
yes, I would apply that also to you. If you are first generation, then in the sense that I'm
01:40:58.540
using the term, in the truest sense, the deepest sense, you are not American, and you will never
1.00
01:41:05.720
be an American. That does not mean that you're not an American citizen. That doesn't mean that
01:41:11.100
you should not have certain rights and privileges and protection under the law. It certainly doesn't
01:41:18.120
mean, even if you weren't here, even if you were still in Mexico, but you're a Christian sister
01:41:22.180
in the Lord, then certainly in the eternal and ultimate spiritual sense, then you're a co-heir
01:41:29.600
in grace with equal dignity and eternal value in the sight of God. That applies to all people,
01:41:37.320
all Christians across the globe, regardless of where their citizenship is, regardless of their
01:41:41.960
place of birth so in the ultimate spiritual sense sister and christ equal in the legal
01:41:49.160
and modern day sense of american citizenship and the way that that works also equal equal rights
01:41:57.140
privileges and protections under the law as it pertains to u.s citizens in the heritage sense
01:42:04.720
of actual nationality and ethnicity and people and place a nation actually being people and place
01:42:15.000
and not just an ascent to certain history facts and not even just an ascent to a particular set
01:42:23.340
of affections and and loves i believe you when you say you love america and i believe you when
01:42:29.940
you say, you know, America, her history and her heritage and her laws and these kinds of things
01:42:36.320
and customs. So I believe you in terms of your claim towards knowledge. And in that comment,
01:42:42.100
I detect two things, a claim towards knowledge and a claim towards love and affection. And I'm
01:42:48.760
not discounting either of those. And both of those things actually do matter. They matter very much
01:42:53.560
to me. And we're very thankful for those. We're thankful for that. Yep. I'm thankful for every
01:42:58.520
first-generation immigrant who's like you, who has taken the time to get to know America,
01:43:06.740
who has renounced their standing and citizenship in their prior country, that has pledged their
01:43:12.680
allegiance to this country, and who has affection and love for this country. That's very similar to
01:43:19.020
Ruth. And so I would just say to you exactly what I believe the Bible expresses towards Ruth,
01:43:24.840
that your great-grandson could be president of this nation
01:43:53.500
is that if we make exceptions for the people who think like us, because you are, you don't just
01:44:00.760
think like us, from what I can tell, you're a Christian. So you're my sister in Christ. So
01:44:05.080
everything in me, every inclination is to say, we're the same. And we are the same in the terms
01:44:12.360
of common grace, image bearers of God. We're the same in terms of special grace as brother and
01:44:18.300
sister in the lord um and we're the same in the sense of equality under the law as citizens of
01:44:25.300
this country but we are not the same in the terms of um particular peoples yeah i'm an american
01:44:32.740
by um by birth and lineage right and you are not and um and that's okay yep that's okay but being
01:44:43.440
American has to mean more than just, I memorized the Declaration of Independence, and I love this
01:44:49.820
country more than the one I left. And to be frank, and I don't mean any disrespect, but if I left
01:44:55.020
Mexico, I would love this country more than Mexico too. Kind of hard not to. Having lived around the
01:45:03.500
world, I guarantee you that Ruth, even though she cleaved to Israel, I guarantee you when she got
0.64
01:45:09.320
pregnant she craved foods that she couldn't get that were midianite foods because that's just her
01:45:15.440
biological chemistry right i guarantee you there were certain times of the year where she said
01:45:20.180
and i bet my family back in midian is doing this this time of year this is their cultural thing
01:45:25.920
right and and it's not even it's not even bad that she would have been wistful or or had those
01:45:32.240
cravings for that food nostalgic all those things um none of that's inherently sinful no and it's
01:45:38.040
totally understandable. In fact, it is normal because you're a product of where you were raised
01:45:41.740
and the people who raised you. So in a legal sense, American, yeah, we want as many of those
01:45:49.860
who have immigrated to America to love this country. And sadly, to our shame, you probably
01:45:55.740
love this country better than many, many of the people who were born here.
01:46:00.100
I believe that. Neither of us are, I want you to hear that. Neither of us are saying
01:46:04.920
uh that you're lying or that we don't believe you i i absolutely believe that you're more aware of
01:46:11.340
american history than most people in america who are 10th generation um yeah i believe you and that
01:46:18.900
you are more patriotic and more devoted to america than most americans who are 10th generation i
01:46:24.500
believe that also um absolutely and so in that sense um you are uh a very helpful co-belligerent
01:46:33.860
in the fight to save this country yep and um and in that sense we're grateful um but you are still
01:46:40.860
mexican right in terms of the people that in terms of your people yes american citizen yes um but but
01:46:48.820
also still mexican yeah and uh and we're just saying that nationality has to mean something
01:46:54.780
beyond just citizenship because that's a historic understanding and meaning of nationalities and if
01:47:02.040
we lose that then then there really is no sense of nationhood right and part of it is going to
01:47:09.240
be perceived as unfair because for many many decades in america all it took to be an american
01:47:14.720
was the legal yeah ronald reagan said that we are we are advocating for something different something
01:47:22.320
more natural for something more fundamental um and so there are going to be people who feel like
01:47:28.640
we're slighting them when we we recognize that you're on our side that you're that you're joining
01:47:32.940
us so that your children and your grandchildren can be truly american in their peoplehood not just
01:47:38.220
in their citizenship so we are in a time of transition where um you're going to think well
01:47:43.640
i'm getting picked on well no it's just we're trying to return to older definitions that's
01:47:47.760
right yeah nobody is picking on you um i i promise well i can't say nobody i guess i'm not everybody
01:47:57.020
But Michael's exactly right that when you're trying to repent
01:48:09.260
And that always does feel like an injustice and unfair.
01:48:17.840
Like imagine that like you think of the last 80 years
01:48:23.820
And all of a sudden, you know, the standard changes right before your turn.
01:48:32.800
But what we're saying is that the height, you know,
01:48:35.620
must be this tall to ride the ride for the last 80 years, that that was wrong.
01:48:41.560
And it's actually been jeopardizing the roller coaster.
01:48:47.460
Now everybody who's on it is about to fly off the rails.
01:49:16.480
Kind of continuing the discussion from previously says,
01:49:20.420
stating that you must be a third generation citizen
0.96
01:49:22.760
to vote in elections or run for office state and federal that would be a great uh step in the right
01:49:28.500
direction that's what we've been arguing for um probably about a year now and uh and using kind
01:49:33.860
of a general equity principle from the civil code given to israel under the old covenant in the old
01:49:39.800
testament i believe it's in deuteronomy uh where there are certain rights and privileges particularly
01:49:45.200
as it pertains to worship and temple access that were forbidden from all those who were
01:49:52.520
first and second generation immigrants into Israel, that it was not until the third generation
01:49:58.060
that they were fully welcomed. And so that doesn't mean that in the meantime, that first
01:50:05.000
and second generation should be exploited or taken advantage of, because we also have clear
01:50:10.520
laws that are given to israel about how to treat the sojourner but first michael you've said this
01:50:15.480
several times and it's it's simple but insightful that uh the sojourner um was was always um meant
01:50:23.040
to be understood as someone who would eventually go back right they're sojournering through so
01:50:27.300
they're traveling means traveler right so they're in israel and among israel for a time and so long
01:50:33.620
as they're in israel there's a few things number one um they can't be exploited and taken advantage
01:50:38.640
by israel number two they have to abide by israel's laws right even the sabbath would apply
01:50:43.740
to the sojourners like well i'm a sojourner i don't even i don't even worship your god yeah
01:50:48.760
yeah but you're here tough bananas tough bananas we do worship our god and so um uh so you behave
01:50:54.820
as a guest and we um behave respectfully right so so this is not to say that until the third
01:51:01.140
generation right that you're just a sitting duck with a target on your chest right to be mistreated
01:51:06.740
and disrespected nobody's saying that um but uh it wasn't until the third generation that uh that
01:51:13.480
you had fully um elevated from that sojourner status to where you were now fully assimilated
01:51:20.040
into israel with all the rights and privileges and so that's that's what i would advocate for
0.96
01:51:25.840
is number one uh we absolutely need a full stop on immigration for 50 to 80 years as we've already
0.99
01:51:32.120
said but once we would pick back up and we know that's probably not going to happen but if if we
0.66
01:51:36.560
were king you know if we're in charge that's what we would do and then once it picked back up
01:51:41.000
um the the simple solution is that we'd simply have to have more categories right so there would
01:51:46.980
be some level of citizenship that would be available to those who um who legally immigrate
01:51:53.280
great to america and love america and and for us we would also want them to be christian and love
01:51:59.460
the lord jesus christ um and love our history and love our heritage and forsaking what they've left
01:52:06.500
There can still be that affection and nostalgia,
01:52:08.940
but they're not just having one foot in two different camps.
01:52:12.720
There's a full move and departure from their previous home
01:52:19.300
and then there would be some form of citizenship
01:52:24.100
And so they would be able to maintain that form of citizenship
01:52:26.980
that would give them certain rights and privileges and protections.
01:52:34.040
everything applied the same way beyond just a visa or even beyond a green card but then there
01:52:38.460
would be a fuller level of you know maybe you call it heritage citizenship you know um that
01:52:44.620
would uh that would have uh the highest and full uh rights and privileges and i would want to put
01:52:51.380
voting in that category and this you know i mean and holding civil office this has been done before
01:52:56.560
this is how rome was there was a different class in their society of of people who were citizens
01:53:02.680
The Apostle Paul was a citizen even by birth, right?
01:53:06.300
And that doesn't mean that everyone else couldn't work, couldn't live.
01:53:09.900
Like, they were even considered Romans in a sense, right?
01:53:12.640
But Paul was legally a citizen by birth, and some had to buy it.
01:53:25.820
He says, law exam, study break, cookout, RRM, great evening.
01:53:36.820
He says, would you support limiting the ability to vote
01:53:39.160
to married households over 30, where the man is over 30?
01:53:50.120
Biblically, it's a man leaves his father and his wife,
01:53:53.120
and that becomes, but property owning was always one
01:53:57.620
So that might, property owning to me seems a little bit more of a,
01:54:01.360
well i don't know i don't know yeah for me i haven't thought about an age so for me uh age
01:54:06.140
wouldn't be necessary but i think i i see what he's getting at there and um he's looking for
01:54:11.220
mature people who sure yep yep i totally get that um i mean just the fact that you know um
01:54:17.780
you're legally old enough to go and die for your country uh three years before you're legally
0.94
01:54:22.740
allowed to uh have a beer yep is kind of yeah ridiculous um so carry your own gun you can
0.95
01:54:28.740
carry the government's gun but you can't carry your own gun so i get it in terms of like a
0.51
01:54:33.420
practical like pragmatic step because our nation is is so immature yeah um but i'd be hesitant to
01:54:40.720
put uh the age piece on it because uh what we want to work towards is more maturity um you know
01:54:46.800
there was a time where you know 12 year olds you know would would go hunting right you know on their
01:54:52.900
own right you know and and fully capable of responsible gun use right all these different
01:54:58.880
things and so uh but we both would agree in terms of uh married households right um because what
01:55:05.800
you're doing in that sense is you're saying this person has a stake in the future right
01:55:09.860
so you're not you're not holding it you're not withholding it to uh children because it is the
01:55:16.480
case that some people may not be able to have children right but you're saying those who are
01:55:21.480
married and what you're what you're assessing there and assuming there is uh that those who
01:55:27.380
are married heterosexual marriage the only kind that actually exists but is that they um that uh
01:55:34.520
if they don't have children it's not because they didn't want to right so these are people who um
01:55:39.600
are you know the building blocks of society of any nation and who are vested they have a vested
01:55:46.280
interest in the future of the country so uh holding uh the vote for those who are um married
01:55:54.060
households yes uh so it would be a household vote rather than an individual vote looking at the
01:55:59.420
molecule rather than the individual atom uh so then that bears the question of so which member
01:56:05.440
of the household is going to cast the vote right and so we would say the head of household and so
01:56:13.300
So we would reserve it for a married man of a household.
0.96
01:56:24.140
I think we would further say that that needs to be someone
01:56:39.680
biblically general equity principle someone who is of the people of america by that point exactly
01:56:46.300
so we're not even saying third generation american these are this is their heritage yes
01:56:50.600
yes right and and what that does that so the married piece you're insinuating assuming children
01:56:56.480
so what you're saying is they have a stake in the future and the third generation is saying you have
01:57:00.740
a stake in the past yes this is a person who can look back and forward yes and says i care and i
01:57:06.680
a vested interest in america yeah both its history and its future yeah it's past and its future
01:57:12.840
that's that's what we're saying there and then we're treating as households which all that is
01:57:16.920
is representative government yep we already have um that element of we you know we understand
01:57:21.720
representative government there are plenty of people casting votes right about big decisions
01:57:26.840
right now and i don't get to cast an individual vote yep i got to vote for an elected official
01:57:32.440
But then that elected official then represents me and is voting on certain policies and certain budgets and certain decisions and certain laws, and I don't get to go and represent myself.
01:57:45.300
So this concept of representative government, that's our history.
01:57:50.980
The founders, none of them had anything positive to say about a raw democracy.
01:57:58.280
universal suffrage has uh has had no good fruit so so the idea that we would be further represented
01:58:07.500
um even at the level of households is all we're advocating so married man uh third generation
01:58:14.100
american and the only last piece that i would want to add to that um i would be open to uh
01:58:19.640
property owning because that's just another element of having a stake in the country um
01:58:50.820
There are a lot of people who are heritage Americans
01:58:53.280
who pay their taxes are not on welfare our 10th generation have five children vested in the past
01:59:00.740
and in the future and literally just cannot literally cannot own a home and cannot have
01:59:06.960
family property passed down to them either without massive tax problems right that whole
01:59:11.680
with a 50 estate tax or something you know depending on the circumstances so um so i would
01:59:17.040
be willing to be flexible given the time and the conditions where we currently are and on the land
01:59:22.560
owning piece say tax paying and no no welfare welfare so male married third generation tax
01:59:31.780
paying no welfare and then the last piece that i would want is um a public profession of christian
01:59:37.400
faith that they're christian yeah um yeah those that's that's what i would look at for a a full
01:59:45.440
voting citizen with some kind of degree some measure of citizenship before that for first
01:59:52.880
and second generation right law abiding legal citizens immigrants so a lot of people are like
02:00:02.960
wow you're a radical but i'm telling you as the overton window continues to shift
02:00:07.300
it's pretty moderate position that we're articulating and uh and grounded in tradition
02:00:13.740
grounded in scripture and uh also grounded i think in reason and goodwill yeah so yep all right um
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well that's all of our super chats and we're going to go ahead and wrap it up for today we hope that
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you've been blessed by this conversation that you found it helpful and we will see you again